Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-eu

December 21, 2005 - January 14, 2006



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From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Wing strut fittings, etc.
Date: Dec 21, 2005
Rick Holland, I think you are referring to a post I made some time ago in which I quoted Bernard Pietenpol's letter to the EAA Experimenter dated May 1956 (Wow! almost fifty years ago.). I have my well-worn copy before me and will quote again what BHP said about changes to his design: "As I don't have the time to change the plans, only the following changes are recommended. In making up the landing gear fittings, make the strap go way across the bottom. Where the flying struts are fastened to the wing, slant the wing fittings at about the slant of the flying struts. Cub wing fittings would work swell. Some sort of stop should be put on the controls." "If a 65 HP engine is used, make the fuselage just 6 inches longer in front, and make the engine mount fittings go back at least 3 inches further on the longeron. A complete Cub landing gear could be used to advantage." Regarding the longer fuselage, BHP goes on to say: "I built one with a foot longer fuselage, but that was too much--does not handle good in a steep slip." On the strength of his letter, I incorporated all the changes BHP recommended and they worked well for me. Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wing strut fittings, etc.
Boy, I wish I had have known about the 65 HP engine change to the fuselage, it would have saved me a lot of heart ache. Lou N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing strut fittings, etc.
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
From the Pietenpol website: "If you are planning to use an engine lighter in weight than the Ford A (245 lb.), It is suggested that you also purchase the supplemental Plans which elongates the fuselage in order to accomodate the weight and balance requirements when using a lighter aircraft engine." Which is not to say that you can't use a 65HP engine with the original fuselage length. It's been done, successfully. It was a decade or so following the Experimenter article quoted by Graham Hansen, that BHP created the Supplemental Plans, incorporating a lengthened fuselage, with modified fittings and alternate engine mounts. I don't have a copy of my plans right here with me, but I'm pretty sure that the Supplemental Plans also detail modified lift strut attach fittings, designed to be more close to the actual angle of the struts. They might not be labelled very clearly as to exactly what they are. Or maybe it's just my memory that's not so clear... Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lou Wither Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing strut fittings, etc. Boy, I wish I had have known about the 65 HP engine change to the fuselage, it would have saved me a lot of heart ache. Lou N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Wing strut fittings, etc.
Bill Church wrote: The supplemental plans also include plans for motormounts for the A-65 and Corvair. They show a modified plan for the motormount brackets that are longer than on the original plans, but I don't remember any drawings for the lift struts. just my $.02 Ben > From the Pietenpol website: > > "If you are planning to use an engine lighter in weight than the Ford > A (245 lb.), It is suggested that you also purchase the supplemental > Plans which elongates the fuselage in order to accomodate the weight > and balance requirements when using a lighter aircraft engine." > > Which is not to say that you can't use a 65HP engine with the original > fuselage length. It's been done, successfully. > It was a decade or so following the Experimenter article quoted > by Graham Hansen, that BHP created the Supplemental Plans, > incorporating a lengthened fuselage, with modified fittings and > alternate engine mounts. > I don't have a copy of my plans right here with me, but I'm pretty > sure that the Supplemental Plans also detail modified lift strut > attach fittings, designed to be more close to the actual angle of the > struts. They might not be labelled very clearly as to exactly what > they are. Or maybe it's just my memory that's not so clear... > > Bill > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Lou > Wither > *Sent:* December 22, 2005 7:31 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing strut fittings, etc. > > Boy, I wish I had have known about the 65 HP engine change to the > fuselage, it would have saved me a lot of heart ache. > > Lou > N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: lift strut fittings
Date: Dec 22, 2005
Ben wrote- >The supplemental plans also include plans for motormounts for the A-65 and >Corvair. They show a modified plan for the motormount brackets that are >longer than on the original plans, but I don't remember any drawings for >the lift struts. On the sheet labeled "Supplementary Plans- Pietenpol Air-Camper", there are several things. There are side views of the fuselage framing and sheeting, labeled "*corrected 9-22-94 DP" for the lengths of the three verticals aft of the pilot's seat and ahead of the rudder post, corrected by Don Pietenpol. There is a dimensioned plan of the revised rear seat bottom framing, with two fore-and-aft braces rather than one under the seat bottom plywood as shown on the original drawings. There are upper and lower motor mount bracket details, full size, including mounting ears for the cabane/center section brace struts to eliminate the x-brace wires between the cabanes. And there is a full-size detail of "flying strut fitting; 8 required". This is the piece in question. The revised "flying strut fitting" is clearly longer than the originals and the angled cut clearly indicates that it installs at more of an angle from the vertical than the original, supposedly to align with the axis of the lift strut. I have not drawn up the original nor the revised brackets in AutoCAD to see if this is the case, but I'll bet that it is. My conclusion is the same, though... either bracket will work just fine for your lift struts, and that has been proven by thousands of flight hours with no problems that I am aware of. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2005
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Earl Myers Drawings
Does any one have a copy of the drawings that Earl talked about way back Oct 7, 1999? They are specifically for the aileron piano hinge set-up. The post from '99 is below. I am looking for a few bits of information. 1) What size hinge did he or Mike Cuy (or others) use 2) What size machine screws were used (6-32 or 8-32) and with what corresponding nut plate. 3) Do the machine screws sit flush with the hinge (after being counter sunk) and is there enough thickness of the hinge to countersink and still provided enough surface area to hold the hinge securely. 4) Were the nut plates screwed, epoxied, or both onto the backside of the aileron "spar" Thanks Kirk Here is the old post Walt; The barrel or hinge pin side or whatever you want to call it basically lies flush with the top of the wing and aileron the whole length of the 6' hinge. This achieves the same hinge point that the hardware store hinges had as per the plans. I originally bought Stanley hinges for the ailerons and just didn't like the feel or sloppiness of them, hence the piano hinge. I choose the extruded hinge as I had some laying around and it is stronger than the other..... I realize now that was overkill after seeing numerous high performance planes with the regular wrapped hinge. I choose MS 21059 L08 floating nut plates that screw to the insides of the ailerons and inside the wing. This way the hinge is totally exposed for removal of it via attach screws. Long story made short, if you give me your snail address off line here, I will mail you a copy of my drawing. There are a lot more tidbits on it about trim strips for fabric and so forth. This is what The Honorable Mr. Cuy used on his ship and it seems to work fine. I used it on my Scout too but it hasn't flown yet. Earl Myers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: T'was The Night Before Christmas - Sports Planes Style
Date: Dec 22, 2005
'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the forum not an EMAIL was posted, not even a note. The stockings were hung by the laptop with care, in hopes that Tom P. soon would be there. The pilots were nestled all snug in their beds, while visions of SLSA's danced in their heads. The aircraft in their hangars, and I in my cap, had just settled our brains for a long winter's nap. When out on the tarmac there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my desk to see what was the matter. Away to the window I flew like a flash, tore open the shutter, and threw up the sash. The moon on the breast of the new-fallen snow gave the lustre of midday to the tie-downs below, when, what to my wondering eyes should appear, but a Light Sport Aircraft and eight big EAA 'rs. With a little old pilot, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be Tom P. More rapid than eagles, his coursers they came, and he whistled and shouted and called them by name: "Now Rutan! Now Melville! Now, Fossett and Boyer! On, Lawrence! On, Heintz! On, Van G and Sawyer! To the end of the runway! To the tie-down area Now Shut Down ! Shut Down! Shut Down All Engines" As dry leaves that before the wild hurricane fly, when they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky so up to the top of the FBO they flew, with the sleigh full of flight toys, and Tom P. too. And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof the prancing and pawing of each little hoof. As I drew in my head and was turning around, down the chimney Tom P. came with a bound. He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot, and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot. A bundle of new FAA rules he had flung on his back, and he looked like a peddler just opening his pack. He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work, and filled all the stockings, with SP and LSA Rulings. And laying his finger aside of his nose, and giving a nod, up the chimney he rose. He sprang to his SLSA, completed his preflight, And away he flew like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, 'ere he flew out of sight, "Happy Christmas to all, and to all a good night!" (An Adaptation of the Classic Poem, "T'was the Night Before Christmas") Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: lift strut fittings
Date: Dec 23, 2005
The problem with the original fitting orientation is that it loads the flat strap material in a bending moment instead of tension. Flat strap likes tension best. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift strut fittings > The revised "flying strut fitting" is > clearly longer than the originals and the > angled cut clearly indicates that it > installs at more of an angle from the > vertical than the original, supposedly to > align with the axis of the lift strut. I > have not drawn up the original nor the > revised brackets in AutoCAD to see if this > is the case, but I'll bet that it is. > > My conclusion is the same, though... either > bracket will work just fine for your lift > struts, and that has been proven by > thousands of flight hours with no problems > that I am aware of. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > Forum - > Subscriptions page, > Browse, Chat, FAQ, > Site - > Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Earl Myers Drawings
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2005
27, 2005) at 12/23/2005 04:33:14 PM Kirk, I never used or heard of Earl Myers drawings but I used the following: Piano hinge MS20257P5: ASS p/n 03-00051-6 2 Two lug anchor nuts AN 366F-1032A in the wing 24 Two lug anchor nuts MK1000-03 in the aileron 24 And plain machine screws AN526-1032-R18 48 Machine screw and anchor nut about every 6 " without interfering with ribs. The machine screws are not countersunk but are offset against each other so the heads do hit. When flying I observed the aileron, a 1/2" deflection (trailing edge) is enough to start a gentle roll in to the turn. I am sure during landing it deflects more (lower speed) but it does not take a whole lot. Anyway the control stick hits it's limits (torque tube control arm hitting the floor board) before the aileron. Hans van der Voort ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2005
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Re: Earl Myers Drawings
Hans, Why did you use two different types of anchor nuts? Kirk >>> hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com 12/23/05 9:33 AM >>> Kirk, I never used or heard of Earl Myers drawings but I used the following: Piano hinge MS20257P5: ASS p/n 03-00051-6 2 Two lug anchor nuts AN 366F-1032A in the wing 24 Two lug anchor nuts MK1000-03 in the aileron 24 And plain machine screws AN526-1032-R18 48 Machine screw and anchor nut about every 6 " without interfering with ribs. The machine screws are not countersunk but are offset against each other so the heads do hit. When flying I observed the aileron, a 1/2" deflection (trailing edge) is enough to start a gentle roll in to the turn. I am sure during landing it deflects more (lower speed) but it does not take a whole lot. Anyway the control stick hits it's limits (torque tube control arm hitting the floor board) before the aileron. Hans van der Voort ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Earl Myers Drawings
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2005
27, 2005) at 12/23/2005 08:51:24 PM Kirk I started of with using the nylock type (AN 366F-1032A) only. But these are to big on the aileron side, they would show through the fabric, same goes for machine screw length. This happens because the Aileron nuts are mounted on an angle, 30 degrees or so. You can of course mount them lower but that is also away from the hinge point and makes the setup weaker. If the explanation is not entirely clear maybe this drawing explains better. (See attached file: Visio-Drawing1.pdf) Best regards Hans van der Voort ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Earl Myers Drawings
Date: Dec 23, 2005
Hans What program did you draw this picture in? It says Visio-Drawing1. It looks good and easy. Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Earl Myers Drawings > Kirk > > I started of with using the nylock type (AN 366F-1032A) only. > > But these are to big on the aileron side, they would show through the > fabric, same goes for machine screw length. > This happens because the Aileron nuts are mounted on an angle, 30 degrees > or so. > You can of course mount them lower but that is also away from the hinge > point and makes the setup weaker. > > If the explanation is not entirely clear maybe this drawing explains > better. > > (See attached file: Visio-Drawing1.pdf) > > Best regards > > Hans van der Voort ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 23, 2005
Subject: Re: Earl Myers Drawings
Barry, I have a old version of VISIO 2000 I believe its now part of Microsoft Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ref. Flying Video
Date: Dec 24, 2005
Chuck: Received my coppy today as I was out chipping ice from the driveway on a relatively warm (35 deg) Maine day. Finished the cleaning the driveway and came in to watch it. What a blast!!! Real nice to see a diferent part of the world too. For those of us who never have had the opportunity, the video really gives us a feel for what it is like to fly one of these things. Good job and many thanks for the inspiration. all the best: Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 24, 2005
Subject: CHUCK'S VIDEO
I loved it. I watched most of it this afternoon. I've been too broke and too busy to do any flying for about two months now, so it was really nice getting the bird's eye view again! I'm anxious to finish watching it as time allows. I have to watch in bits and pieces because I have a 18 month old son, and 7 week old daughter! Thanks for a great video Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Happy Holidays and Web Update
Date: Dec 25, 2005
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Hi Piet friends, wishing you all a safe great Holiday! Also wanted to let you know I have updated my "simple" web www.textors.com. It has some construction photos and some fly-in pictures under the Misc Pictures tab. Take care all! Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Holidays and Web Update
Date: Dec 26, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 9:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy Holidays and Web Update Hi Piet friends, wishing you all a safe great Holiday! Also wanted to let you know I have updated my "simple" web www.textors.com. It has some construction photos and some fly-in pictures under the Misc Pictures tab. Take care all! Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: JR <rocca(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: A Pietenpol for Christmas
Hello group and hope your Holiday is going well, Been a lurker here for while, I am the new owner of NX899TC-I'll be picking her up this summer, its needs a little work but I'm sure I can get her looking just as good as before. I am mobilized now with the Army but still going to try to make it to Broadhead this year. I watched Mike C video and ordered Chucks video, reviewed the plans, hung out around both Sun-n-Fun and Oshkosh watching them build the Piet and got to know Ted B.while living down in Sunny Naples Florida. Prior owner Timothy Cunningham has been very helpful in replying to my emails and sending me photos of the plane. Looking foward to meeting you all. This will be my first plane with a Continental in it, a nice step up from my VW and Rotax powered experimentals, however I do have a clean Corvair Engine striped down sitting in the garage ; ) I'd like to do some cross-country hops it it! Oh yeah almost forgot, I had to order a leather helmet and goggles to go with the Piet, However, I did show some restraint buy not purchasing the silk scarf ! Happy 2006 Captain John Rocca US Army SC 412-445-5995 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol for Christmas
Good going, John ! Great to hear you'll pickup your new Piet this summer. Hopefully the work won't keep you from flying it for very long. Summer goes fast in the US......least in Ohio. Happy New Year to you and the group, Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: wire wheels on ebay now
0.13 URI_NO_WWW_ANY_CGI URI: CGI with long hostname other fourth-level "www" http://motors.search.ebay.com/?from=R40&satitle=Pietenpol+spoked+wheels ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Chuck's Video
Date: Dec 27, 2005
Chuck Could you post again how to get the video. I somehow missed it. Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Chuck's Video
Date: Dec 27, 2005
Barry, I sent $20.00 to this address just today, kind of a late Christmas present to myself. Happy New Year to you, Mike, the rest of the big Piet builders, and the whole list. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck's Video Chuck Could you post again how to get the video. I somehow missed it. Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 27, 2005
Subject: Re: wire wheels on ebay now
Mike, Wire wheels can also be had from Airdrome Aeroplanes in Holden Missouri: _http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76_ (http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76) Don't know if any of you guys tried these? To the whole list; the very best wishes for the new year and many happy landings! Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: wire wheels on ebay now
That is a great source Hans.....good find. I just e-mailed the guy who builds up kits and complete sets to ask if he does any with aluminum rims. Mike >Mike, > >Wire wheels can also be had from Airdrome Aeroplanes in Holden Missouri: > ><http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76>http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76 > >Don't know if any of you guys tried these? > >To the whole list; the very best wishes for the new year and many happy >landings! > >Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 2005
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: wire wheels on ebay now
<5.1.1.5.2.20051227105135.01030cd0(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov> Just be aware, that you can't use these wheels where brakes are used. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels on ebay now > > > http://motors.search.ebay.com/?from=R40&satitle=Pietenpol+spoked+wheels > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: One Six Right DVD, The Romance of Flying
Date: Dec 27, 2005
I've got a brand new One Six Right DVD I ordered from Sporty's Pilot Shop last week. I viewed it once this evening and will probably put it on Ebay next week, unless anybody on this list wants first dibs on it. I paid $35.90 for it and can let it go for $25. (Sorry, no Pietenpols in this DVD like Chucks but the footage is really incredible.) Sterling Brooks Knot-2-Shabby Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Chuck Gantzer new video comments
Chuck--- nice job on your new release of your flying your Pietenpol video. I like the menu you provide to pick from flying, river run, tp drop, spot landings and such. The video of you visiting your family in West Virginia is very good. Your son did an excellent job of taking video on his 1st airplane ride ever. Open cockpit no less. Nice to view some Pietenpol flying scenes during some fairly lousy weather days here in Ohio ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A65 oil sump
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Anybody have a 4-qt. oil sump for an A65 that they want to sell? I'm in the market. There is one on eBay at the moment and I may bid on that one if I can't find another. The gentleman raised the starting bid on this one from $99 to $149 since yesterday, but he's had no bids on it yet. Thanks! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tail surfaces
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Happy Holidays to all! A quick question for all of you - since recent discussion has listed many changes that people would make, I am wondering if there are any changes to the tail surfaces that anyone would recommend? I am planning on the long fuse version with a C-65. I have read that with the longer nose area to compensate for the lighter engine, the plane can exhibit "odd" handling on crosswinds or in a slip. My thought was to add two inches to the top of the rudder, and leave the elevator surfaces per plans. this would provide about 40 sq. inches of additional vertical surface area in the tail with a minimal increase in weight. I'm looking for your thoughts and ideas - getting ready to order up the wood for the tail feathers - all ribs complete for my bird and the jigs are being used for a second set now. I need to finish the jigs for the tail and hopefully have my surfaces complete before Ken is done with his ribs. Then the jigs go to a third individual to begin construction. Thanks for your thoughts! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: hinge dept
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Happy New Year all! Getting ready to route the slots for my elevator and rudder hinges. I'm using Vi Kaplers hinges. Should the dept be cut so the top of the hinge flange sets flush with the leading edge of the elevator? Thanks! Jack Des Moines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Subject: Chuck Gantzer new video comments
I especially liked the part which said "I find it difficult to fly without smoke" - was laughing out loud. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Chuck Gantzer new video comments
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Yeah, Chuck has the down-home, folksy kind of voice that makes you feel right at home. His little commentary in the video will make you wish he were an instructor for ATC controllers (except he'd never make it in busy airspace... talks too slow). They should also use his voice for when they contact you on the radio to tell you that you just breached some secure airspace. Let's say you sorta missed Sterling's "Knot 2 Shabby" grass strip by a few miles and found yourself over Crawford when the president is there. Ol' Chuck's voice in the headphones: "Experimental four-one charlie charlie, sure must be a pretty Pietenpol you're flying, but I've got you at about 700 feet above the First Lady's fresh apple pie cooling out on the windowsill. Do you think you could show her the underside of your airplane as you make an easy 180 degree left turn and head away from there? And give 'er some smoke as you pull that 180!" Beats the heck out of, "experimental aircraft, make an immediate one-eighty. You are in restricted airspace. Please acknowledge." Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: wire wheels on ebay now
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com>
Regarding the use of Airdrome Aeroplane wheels on our Piets, I have this information from Robert at A.A. if I'm getting it all correct (that was my disclaimer). He typically makes his wheels using a hub width of 7" from flange to =66lange, and a 3" spoke circle. He has the capability to weld a 6" =66lange width hub. He uses a 1-1/2" i.d hub, and when he uses a bronze bushing instead of bearings, he requires a 1-1/4" o.d. axle. For the straight tube axle, he sleeves the axle with another 18" long tube on each end. Because I already have my rims and spokes, the geometry may require me only to use a 6" wide hub with my 8-1/2" spokes which I have mocked up, therefore, I'm inquiring on the weldment which I am sure he can do a better job of than myself judging from his photos and experience. I explained this web site to him so he now knows why he's getting the calls and e-mails from us. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HVandervoo(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:55 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wire wheels on ebay now =09 =09 =09 Mike, Wire wheels can also be had from Airdrome Aeroplanes in Holden Missouri: http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp=3Fpage76 Don't know if any of you guys tried these=3F To the whole list; the very best wishes for the new year and many happy landings! Hans This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: ATC controllers and Pietenpols
Heck Oscar, I must drive the controllers nuts at Cleveland Hopkins Airport out of 4G8 where I fly because the TCA (okay....Class frigging B Airspace) is at 1900' and I fly about 1500' msl and I can almost see runways 24L and R numbers when I'm over my airport doing 35 mph circling watching a pretty sunset. They must think I'm a helicopter. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: PS-- good luck to Oscar
Oscar-- that one e-mail I meant to finish should have said good luck on finding a decent 65 horse oil sump at a decent price. They are somewhat pricey and hard to come by in decent shape. (lots are wiped out in nose-overs with the carbs and air boxes) I scoured google.com a while ago and saw some chatter about them on the t-craft e-mail group. Might wanna check with those guys or e-mail Forrest Barber....the t-craft guru here in Ohio who has a t-craft web site. Tell him you know me and he'll say "whooe ?" :))) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: straight vs. spoked
0(at)popserve.grc.nasa.gov><5.1.1.5.2.20051228092308.02652208(at)popserve.grc.na s a.gov> Walt-- isn't that funny....you and Jim Markle saw the WOODS in those wire wheel photos while I was looking at the tree branches. Wild. Must be the quaaludes I've been taking:)) Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Chuck's Video
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Skip Hey, you're killing me!! WHAT ADDRESS? Barry and Merry Christmas from the Big Piet Builders ----- Original Message ----- From: Cinda Gadd To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:22 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Chuck's Video Barry, I sent $20.00 to this address just today, kind of a late Christmas present to myself. Happy New Year to you, Mike, the rest of the big Piet builders, and the whole list. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Davis To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: 12/27/2005 11:26:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck's Video Chuck Could you post again how to get the video. I somehow missed it. Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Wow. Chuck's DVD, Or -- Chuck-A-Check
Date: Dec 28, 2005
My copy of Chuck's DVD arrived in the mail a while back and I've had too many irons in the fire (not to mention fires all around me here in Texas) to look at Chuck's DVD until this afternoon. I can attest that it was more meaningful to me to watch this DVD than the $35.90 I invested in the One Right Six DVD, still for sale by the way. I've spent more than 30 years in television, working all over the US and Europe & Africa, but I've never seen such a great non-professional video as this. Chuck did an outstanding job! And for anybody who hasn't purchased one of Chuck's DVD's, get off your bohunkas and send Chuck a Check. His DVD will inspire even the most uninspired procastinator. In fact, this weekend I'm getting my bohunkas back to the hanger to work on my project. www.sterlingbrooks.tv Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch NOTAMS, Fresh Cowchips on Runway. Land at your own risk. BYOS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: C75 timing marks
We're installing a zero-time, freshly rebuilt C75 on our Piet. It has a tapered shaft. I am concerned that when the #1 cylinder is TDC, the timing marks end up on the bottom of the prop hub. Recall that the hub is keyed to the crank on these engines, so it fits in one position only. I wonder if somebody installed the cam out of sync. Is this correct or is there a problem with the assembly of the engine? Thanks for any advice, Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Chuck's Video
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Barry, Sorry man, see if I can get it to work this time. Skip Chuck Gantzer 626 Pattie St Witchita, KS. 67211-2536 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick" <wd6auy(at)coastinet.com>
Subject: Wow. Chuck's DVD
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Sterling and other viewers - I second your praise of Chuck's DVD. Super flight footage and he does have a way with words! Looking forward to the building DVD. Dick I've spent more than 30 years in television, working all over the US and Europe & Africa, but I've never seen such a great non-professional video as this. Chuck did an outstanding job! And for anybody who hasn't purchased one of Chuck's DVD's, get off your bohunkas and send Chuck a Check. His DVD will inspire even the most uninspired procastinator. In fact, this weekend I'm getting my bohunkas back to the hanger to work on my project. www.sterlingbrooks.tv Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch NOTAMS, Fresh Cowchips on Runway. Land at your own risk. BYOS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 28, 2005
From: dmott9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Chuck's Video
Chuck, are you setup to take PayPal ? If not, I'll get a check in the mail. Dennis Mott 131 Richmond Gate City, VA 24251 -----Original Message----- From: Cinda Gadd <csfog(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck's Video Barry, Sorry man, see if I can get it to work this time. Skip Chuck Gantzer 626 Pattie St Witchita, KS. 67211-2536 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: Builders manual
Date: Dec 28, 2005
Am about to order my plans,and am wondering if the builder manual is a necessary buy.I have the 1932 Flying an glider Manual.I plan on building the long version and using a 65 Cont.powerplant ,with a one piece wing.Steel tube fuselage is also a possibility.I'm retired and a fixed income is a fixed income so if it is not needed, I'd like to know.After viewing Chucks video I had to get started.Thanks for any input.Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Builders manual
Mike-- I ordered the building manual but as I recall it is mostly about converting the Model A engine for aircraft use. Others who have it more fresh in their minds may recall more of what is in there. The manual "manual" is not a manual at all actually. It is merely about 25 pages of Bernards thoughts strung together in a binder type format. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Builders manual
Mike--Here is what is in the builders manual as per the Pietenpol family web site found under the Pietenpol Family Web Site: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ Original Air Camper & Sky Scout Builders Manual Original Builders manual that contains the text written by Mr. Pietenpol for the Flying & Glider Manual and Popular Aviation magazines of the 1930's. This is the information pertinent to building the Air Camper and the Sky Scout in the 1930's. Also included is history about the planes that Mr. Pietenpol built and construction notes to assist the first time builder to better understand why it's built as it is. A good head start! Bernard wrote much of this manual himself and documents the how to's! Chapter I The Amateur Airplane Builder Chapter II Modern Mechanics and Inventions Ford A Powered 2-Seat Monoplane Pietenpol Steel Tube Fuselage Mounting the Motor on your Air Camper The Pietenpol-Ford Motor Conversion Chapter III Sky Scout The Pietenpol Sky Scout Tail Group and Fuselage Fittings Chapter IV Converting Ford Model A Engines For Flight Chapter V Itemized Parts List Chapter VI Airplane Chronology Chapter VII Converting the Corvair Engine For Flight Chapter VIII Sixty-five Years Of Post Flight Chapter IX Builders Notes Chapter X Builders Questions ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Builders manual
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Although it was an interesting source of insight on the how the plane came to be, and I like it for it's nostalgic value, I didn't find it to be a meaningful source of building instruction like you would think a "Builder's Manual" would have, and it is somewhat disorganized. I think you could probably pass on it. I got it more to immerse myself in this project and to have everything Bernie made available at the time it was created. This list is a better building reference than the manual. That's my opinion, Glenn > > From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > Date: 2005/12/29 Thu PM 12:40:16 GMT > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Builders manual > > > Mike-- I ordered the building manual but as I recall it is mostly about > converting the Model A engine for aircraft > use. Others who have it more fresh in their minds may recall more of what > is in there. The manual "manual" is not > a manual at all actually. It is merely about 25 pages of Bernards thoughts > strung together in a binder type format. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A65 oil sump/good luck
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Mike wrote- >good luck on finding a decent 65 horse oil sump at a decent price. Define "decent". I found a guy with one on eBay. Started bids at $149 but no bids so I'm working with him on a little better price on it. And Mike Turrell wrote- >am wondering if the builder manual is a necessary buy I would sure buy it. There are lots of useful bits of information in it. Well worth the money, in my opinion. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol for Christmas
You don't get the silk scarf till you shoot down a triwing red coloured plane. > ssage posted by: JR > > Hello group and hope your Holiday is going well, > Been a lurker here for while, > I am the new owner of NX899TC-I'll be picking her up this summer, its > needs a little work but I'm sure I can get her looking just as good as > before. > I am mobilized now with the Army but still going to try to make it to > Broadhead this year. > I watched Mike C video and ordered Chucks video, reviewed the plans, > hung out around both Sun-n-Fun and Oshkosh watching them build the > Piet and got to know Ted B.while living down in Sunny Naples Florida. > Prior owner Timothy Cunningham has been very helpful in replying to my > emails and sending me photos of the plane. Looking foward to meeting > you all. > This will be my first plane with a Continental in it, a nice step up > from my VW and Rotax powered experimentals, however I do have a clean > Corvair Engine striped down sitting in the garage ; ) > I'd like to do some cross-country hops it it! > Oh yeah almost forgot, I had to order a leather helmet and goggles to > go with the Piet, However, I did show some restraint buy not > purchasing the silk scarf ! > > Happy 2006 > > Captain John Rocca > US Army SC > 412-445-5995 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: JR <rocca(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: A Pietenpol for Christmas
Harvey- There is a great write up in Novembers Sport Aviation(EAA Magazine) on "The Fokker Triplane" From what I read it's quite a handful to Takeoff, Fly and Land. The write up made for some good fireplace reading. JR Harvey Rule wrote: > > > You don't get the silk scarf till you shoot down a triwing red > coloured plane. > >> ssage posted by: JR >> >> Hello group and hope your Holiday is going well, >> Been a lurker here for while, >> I am the new owner of NX899TC-I'll be picking her up this summer, >> its needs a little work but I'm sure I can get her looking just as >> good as before. >> I am mobilized now with the Army but still going to try to make it >> to Broadhead this year. >> I watched Mike C video and ordered Chucks video, reviewed the plans, >> hung out around both Sun-n-Fun and Oshkosh watching them build the >> Piet and got to know Ted B.while living down in Sunny Naples >> Florida. Prior owner Timothy Cunningham has been very helpful in >> replying to my emails and sending me photos of the plane. Looking >> foward to meeting you all. >> This will be my first plane with a Continental in it, a nice step up >> from my VW and Rotax powered experimentals, however I do have a clean >> Corvair Engine striped down sitting in the garage ; ) >> I'd like to do some cross-country hops it it! >> Oh yeah almost forgot, I had to order a leather helmet and goggles to >> go with the Piet, However, I did show some restraint buy not >> purchasing the silk scarf ! >> >> Happy 2006 >> >> Captain John Rocca >> US Army SC >> 412-445-5995 >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: C75 question
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Here's some info for Jeff, from an A&P friend of mine: ==================== On the small Continentals, TDC on #1 Cyl as marked on the prop flange is aligned with the case parting line with the TDC mark in the down position on the flange just as described in the question. It is installed correctly. This is true for both taper shaft and flanged engines. If you changed the cam 180 degrees, #1 Piston would still be at TDC in the same position. If you find it easier to deal with the timing marks on the top, either mark it 180 degrees out on the flange, or time to #2 cylinder. FWIW, Continental did some strange markings that are counter-intuitive on the cam gear too. ====================== Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: wire wheels on ebay nowwire wheels on ebay now
Date: Dec 29, 2005
Walt: This is probably obvious to everyone else but why cant these wheels be used with brakes? Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ - Just be aware, that you can't use these wheels where brakes are used. walt evans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2005
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: C75 question
Oscar, Thanks so much for the input. What a group this is! Jeff > >Here's some info for Jeff, from an A&P friend of mine: >==================== >On the small Continentals, TDC on #1 Cyl as marked on the prop >flange is aligned with the case parting line with the TDC mark in >the down position on the flange just as described in the question. >It is installed correctly. This is true for both taper shaft and >flanged engines. > >If you changed the cam 180 degrees, #1 Piston would still be at TDC >in the same position. If you find it easier to deal with the timing >marks on the top, either mark it 180 degrees out on the flange, or >time to #2 cylinder. > >FWIW, Continental did some strange markings that are >counter-intuitive on the cam gear too. >====================== >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: straight spokes vs. criss-crossed spokes
Tom-- I guess unless the spokes are crossed on a wire wheel assy., you can't use them for braking applications since they might 'fold' like dominoes if subjected to enough braking force. I don't know if this is an old wives tale or truth.....but many are those wiser than I. Happy New Year group ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet
Date: Dec 30, 2005
I know there has been discussion on this before, but does anybody actually know of anyone who has actually broken a motorcycle wheel on an Aircamper? I think the problem/concern is side-loading. If this HAS happened to someone, was the airplane damaged or did the wheel simply snap some spokes? I have Honda CB 350 wheels on my aircamper, had them powder coated and they look really great. In fact I think the look better than chrome. And the brakes were fairly easy to hook up with a design that I've made unique to my project. Thanks, Sterling 5TA6 San Antonio Sectional ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Sterling, Do you have a web site or any info on your camper? Happy New Year to my Piet friends! Jack Textor www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet
Sterling-- I have known of many Air Campers that use stock motorcycle wheels and have NEVER heard of a failure. In fact, the only failure of a wire wheel I heard of was Craig Aho in Washington State where he had in fact WIDE homemade hubs but the failure mechanism was traced to not having his spokes tightened enough. There are lots of wives tales about using stock mocycle wheels.....I don't know if I would necessarily jump on that band wagon. Perhaps others can post documented evidence one way or the other...... Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet
Date: Dec 30, 2005
One thing I noticed after I had my Honda wheels powder coated, the juncture at where the spokes cross and touch each other is now tighter than ever. Power coating is darned tough stuff, and I'm wondering if by coating my entire wheels, if some additional (marginal at best) strength might be gained? I guess I'll find out when I get this puppy in the air. The wheels were not "de-spoked" when I did the powder coating. The drum area is obviously not coated, but everything else is. I had two small parts that were part of the exterior brake actuating mechinism that stuck together and I had great difficulty pulling them apart. I had to fabricate a small-thin chisel to wedge between the parts in order to break the powder coating. A place in Midland, Texas did the poweder coating for me (much better than the local guys in Abilene) for $45 each wheel. They sand blasted the wheels and the final product looks really nice. I had mine done in red as in the same color of the Texas flag paint design that DJ Vegh sketched out for me, and I hope this will look nice with the entire airplane. I liked the way the wheels turned out so much that I might take the gear legs and cabanes to the powder coating shop to, but I'm probably going to be cutting the gear apart and going with the spring gear legs that Chuck showed me on his Piet last time I was in Kansas. I'll probably powder coat the gear legs much later down the road (I mean runway.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet > > > Sterling-- I have known of many Air Campers that use stock motorcycle > wheels and have NEVER heard of a failure. > In fact, the only failure of a wire wheel I heard of was Craig Aho in > Washington State where he had in fact WIDE homemade hubs > but the failure mechanism was traced to not having his spokes tightened > enough. > > There are lots of wives tales about using stock mocycle wheels.....I don't > know if I would necessarily jump on that band wagon. > > Perhaps others can post documented evidence one way or the other...... > > Mike C. in Ohio > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet
Sterling, I had this same concern when I was pondering the purchase of our Piet. As Mike wrote, there may not be a single documented occurrence of a motorcycle wheel folding on a Piet. When I queried the list, a couple of people said they knew of one occurrence, but couldn't provide details about the failure mode, though side-loading was suspected. Also, it wasn't clear what shape the wheels were in to begin with. I know from acquaintances that failures have happened on WWI replicas, but those planes are much heavier than Piets and possibly land faster to boot. Our Piet has motorcycle wheels. It was built in the late 70s. It has about 500 hours on it, all local flights probably with lots of landings (at least the same number as take-offs!). So far so good. Jeff >I know there has been discussion on this before, but does anybody >actually know of anyone who has actually broken a motorcycle wheel >on an Aircamper? I think the problem/concern is side-loading. > >If this HAS happened to someone, was the airplane damaged or did the >wheel simply snap some spokes? > >I have Honda CB 350 wheels on my aircamper, had them powder coated >and they look really great. In fact I think the look better than >chrome. And the brakes were fairly easy to hook up with a design >that I've made unique to my project. > >Thanks, > >Sterling >5TA6 >San Antonio Sectional ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet
Date: Dec 30, 2005
Not yet... my hanger is such a mess that my wife would shoot me if I posted something on the internet that showed what a pig I am... Maybe this Spring I'll clean the place up and take some pictures and invite some TACOS over. (Spring of 2007, ?) I'm in the process of building a second hanger for a second airplane I'm about to buy... The mess (and the projects) get bigger and messier all the time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Honda Motorcycle Wheels on a Piet Sterling, Do you have a web site or any info on your camper? Happy New Year to my Piet friends! Jack Textor www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
Subject: [ John Rocca ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John Rocca Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: New Owner of NX899TC http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rocca@adelphia.net.12.30.2005/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A65 oil sump
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Oscar, I've got one that I bought on ebay fro $50 and I'll sell it for what I paid for it. I was hoping to get one with fewer dents than the one I had, but this one is about the same. I can take some pics of it and send them if you'd like Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 oil sump Anybody have a 4-qt. oil sump for an A65 that they want to sell? I'm in the market. There is one on eBay at the moment and I may bid on that one if I can't find another. The gentleman raised the starting bid on this one from $99 to $149 since yesterday, but he's had no bids on it yet. Thanks! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: C75 timing marks
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
That's the way my A65 is setup as well. Works fine, but is a little difficult to see the timing marks when setting the mags. Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development Clinical Technologies and Services Cardinal Health Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Subject: Pietenpol-List: C75 timing marks We're installing a zero-time, freshly rebuilt C75 on our Piet. It has a tapered shaft. I am concerned that when the #1 cylinder is TDC, the timing marks end up on the bottom of the prop hub. Recall that the hub is keyed to the crank on these engines, so it fits in one position only. I wonder if somebody installed the cam out of sync. Is this correct or is there a problem with the assembly of the engine? Thanks for any advice, Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2005
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: C75 timing marks
Thanks Jack. What gave me pause was that our A65 was NOT set up that way. From Oscar's description, it sounds like it doesn't matter. > > >That's the way my A65 is setup as well. Works fine, but is a little >difficult to see the timing marks when setting the mags. > >Jack Phillips, PE >Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development >Clinical Technologies and Services >Cardinal Health >Creedmoor, NC >(919) 528-5212 > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >Boatright >Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:27 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: C75 timing marks > > >We're installing a zero-time, freshly rebuilt C75 on our Piet. It has >a tapered shaft. I am concerned that when the #1 cylinder is TDC, the >timing marks end up on the bottom of the prop hub. Recall that the >hub is keyed to the crank on these engines, so it fits in one >position only. I wonder if somebody installed the cam out of sync. >Is this correct or is there a problem with the assembly of the engine? > >Thanks for any advice, > >Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: C75 timing marks
Date: Dec 30, 2005
Timing marks are the same on my A-80 and after having just assembled the case two months ago, I don't see how it is possible to put the cam in out of sequence. I bought a new cam for nearly $500 (ouch) and the timing marks on the cam in relation to how it mates with the crankshaft was very clear to me, and I'm just the Village Idiot in these parts... (But I had my A&P father watching over my shoulder the whole time...;) Sterling Brooks Village Idiot, Runnels County Texas (Maybe that qualifies me for the County Idiot? Need to change my business cards to reflect my larger area of idiocy!) Knot-2-Shabby Airport & Texas Longhorn Cattle Ranch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: C75 timing marks > > > That's the way my A65 is setup as well. Works fine, but is a little > difficult to see the timing marks when setting the mags. > > Jack Phillips, PE > Sr. Manager, Disposables Product Development > Clinical Technologies and Services > Cardinal Health > Creedmoor, NC > (919) 528-5212 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff > Boatright > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:27 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: C75 timing marks > > > We're installing a zero-time, freshly rebuilt C75 on our Piet. It has > a tapered shaft. I am concerned that when the #1 cylinder is TDC, the > timing marks end up on the bottom of the prop hub. Recall that the > hub is keyed to the crank on these engines, so it fits in one > position only. I wonder if somebody installed the cam out of sync. > Is this correct or is there a problem with the assembly of the engine? > > Thanks for any advice, > > Jeff > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Conkling" <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: straight spokes vs. criss-crossed spokes
Date: Dec 30, 2005
With the spokes crossing, 1/2 of them will be in tension when the hub brake is stopping the wheel -- same thing that happens with the rear wheel on a bicycle when you pedal. You can have the spokes crossed on both sides of the hub or you can have crossed spokes only on the brake side and radial (straight?!) spokes other (out)side. Some of the older wire wheels were "dished" (the rim isn't centered on the hub flanges) with the rim closer to the brake side of the hub -- this gave the outside spokes a better angle for handling the crosswind loads on the wheel. The Model A wire wheels have a similar spoke pattern. Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight spokes vs. criss-crossed spokes > > Tom-- I guess unless the spokes are crossed on a wire wheel assy., you > can't use them > for braking applications since they might 'fold' like dominoes if subjected > to enough braking force. > I don't know if this is an old wives tale or truth.....but many are those > wiser than I. > > Happy New Year group ! > > Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: straight spokes vs. criss-crossed spokes
Date: Dec 30, 2005
> > With the spokes crossing, 1/2 of them will be in tension when the hub brake > is stopping the wheel -- same thing that happens with the rear wheel on a > bicycle when you pedal. > Not entirely true. On a properly built spoked wheel, all the spokes are in tension (fairly high) even with no braking or accelerating torque applied. When a braking torque is applied at the hub, half of the spokes are under increased tension and the other half are under reduced tension. They both contribute to tranfering the torque to the rim which is what you want stopped. What you don't ever want to have happen is for any spokes to completely relax...wheel collapse or severe misalignment is an almost inevitible result. Mike Hardaway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: straight spokes vs. criss-crossed spokes
Date: Dec 31, 2005
> Not entirely true. On a properly built spoked wheel, all the spokes are in > tension (fairly high) even with no braking or accelerating torque applied. This is a good point. There's a good book called "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt that covers bicycle wheel physics and should apply to any spoked wheel. I've never ridden a radial spoke pattern because radial spoking results in the weakest wheel of all the spoke lacing patterns. The closer the spoke is to meeting the spoke hole in the hub at 90 degrees the stronger the wheel. ..and radial spoking has more degrees of "wind-up" as torque is distributed to the rim from the hub via the spokes. To envision the inefficiency of radial spokes think of it this way. If you had to turn a Merry-Go-Round with people and rope, would you be able to do a better job with the rope extending directly away from the Merry-Go-Round and people 20 feet away at the end of the rope, or would you want to pick a tangent point on the Merry-Go-Round and pull perpendicular to the diameter of the circumference at the tangent point? That's why the spokes in a wheel cross. If you follow a spoke from the hole in the hub out to the nipple in the rim and count the number of spokes is crosses along the way that will tell you if it's cross 4 or cross 3 or radial if it doesn't cross any spokes. They say heavy riders and bikes loaded with panniers for touring should always use cross 4. ...so the more crossings, the closer the spoke is to being tangent to the hub and the stronger the wheel is for landings, braking, etc. The book also mentions in a section focusing on radial spoking that this pattern causes a lot of stress at the spokes holes in the hub causing flange failure (again this would be due to the windup). Only cyclists I ever knew that swore upon riding radial spoked wheels couldn't give me a better reason for using them than "They look cool". My experience with spoked wheels (which I have made dozens of) relates only to bicycles. But I believe a spoked wheel is a spoked wheel. Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: wire wheels
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Hello, Radial (straight) laced wire wheels should only be used without brakes. If one isn't using brakes, there is no need to cross the spokes to since there is no acceleration or braking forces trying to spin the rim at a different speed than the hub. If one is using brakes, one MUST use one of the cross lacing patterns. I've personally witnessed two motorcle wheels failures. One on an ultralight biplane where the alloy rim dramatically failed when it was pancaked on from ten feet (anything would likely have failed) and one where side loads did seem to be the culprit, but the hub was VERY narrow, with the spokes having almost NO angle to them at all. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2005
From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: straight spokes vs. criss-crossed spokes
I remember that was a problem with my MGB car..Everytime I'd drive over bumpy roads I had to readjust the damn things.This may be true of landing on rough fields.It may be necessary to adjust them on a regular basis. > > > >>With the spokes crossing, 1/2 of them will be in tension when the hub >> >> >brake > > >>is stopping the wheel -- same thing that happens with the rear wheel on a >>bicycle when you pedal. >> >> >> > >Not entirely true. On a properly built spoked wheel, all the spokes are in >tension (fairly high) even with no braking or accelerating torque applied. >When a braking torque is applied at the hub, half of the spokes are under >increased tension and the other half are under reduced tension. They both >contribute to tranfering the torque to the rim which is what you want >stopped. >What you don't ever want to have happen is for any spokes to completely >relax...wheel collapse or severe misalignment is an almost inevitible >result. > >Mike Hardaway > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2005
From: JR <rocca(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: wire wheels
Douwe Blumberg wrote: > Hello, > > Radial (straight) laced wire wheels should only be used without > brakes. If one isn't using brakes, there is no need to cross the > spokes to since there is no acceleration or braking forces trying to > spin the rim at a different speed than the hub. > > If one is using brakes, one MUST use one of the cross lacing patterns. > > I've personally witnessed two motorcle wheels failures. One on an > ultralight biplane where the alloy rim dramatically failed when it was > pancaked on from ten feet (anything would likely have failed) and one > where side loads did seem to be the culprit, but the hub was VERY > narrow, with the spokes having almost NO angle to them at all. > > Douwe Man- This list is great I didn't know there could be so much discussion over something the average person takes for granted such as a spoked wheel. The knowledge base is definitely here., and at the end of the day I feel so much smarter and informed on all the discussions here. I really like the anaolgy of the Merry-go-round used to explain a point about the hub. Made it so much clearer. I really enjoy the discussions when physics is broken down to the laymans level. OK for know back into my sponge mode. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: motorcycle wheels
Date: Dec 31, 2005
For those who havent seen my Harley wheels in the past, I'm enclosing a pic. The Harley spokes are much heavier duty than Honda or Yamaha. In addition the hub castings on the Yamaha 650 wheels that I originally built, had a lot of defects that I wasn't comfortable with. On my other Piet, I made a very bad crosswind landing last summer and bent the axle but the wheel held up fine. I am presently re-building the axles for both planes and will have the axles heat treated and drawn. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 2005
Subject: Motorcycle wheels
Speaking of wheels, I've purchased (on e-Bay) a pair of the solid disk cast aluminum wheels as used on Harley Davidson "Fat Boy" motorcycles. I like the 1920-ish airplane looks and I believe they are stronger than spoked wheels plus I won't have to worry about spoke maintenance, etc. They're a little heavy, which is okay on the front end of the plane, but I can lighten them a couple pounds by removing the sealed bearings and spacer inside the wheels. For just taxiing and landing and taking off, I don't think I need roller bearings -- just run the wheel on the tube axle and keep 'em greased. Also, the brake rotors will bolt right to the wheels -- just need to fabricate the caliper mount. I've also found some smooth tread tires to use, too. Anyway, this is my wheel "solution" at the moment. Of course the proof is in the pudding, so in a year or two when my ship flies, I'll report back. Happy New Year --and Happy Landings -- to all! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2005
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle wheels
Fred, The motorcycle wheels on our Piet have had the bearings removed and the wheel just runs on the tube axle as you plan to do. About 500 hrs on the plane, no problem with that setup so far. Be careful to keep the grease away from the brakes. Seems obvious, but may not be that easy depending on how you design the rotor or drum setup. Jeff >Speaking of wheels, I've purchased (on e-Bay) a pair of the solid >disk cast aluminum wheels as used on Harley Davidson "Fat Boy" >motorcycles. I like the 1920-ish airplane looks and I believe they >are stronger than spoked wheels plus I won't have to worry about >spoke maintenance, etc. They're a little heavy, which is okay on the >front end of the plane, but I can lighten them a couple pounds by >removing the sealed bearings and spacer inside the wheels. For just >taxiing and landing and taking off, I don't think I need roller >bearings -- just run the wheel on the tube axle and keep 'em >greased. Also, the brake rotors will bolt right to the wheels -- >just need to fabricate the caliper mount. I've also found some >smooth tread tires to use, too. Anyway, this is my wheel "solution" >at the moment. Of course the proof is in the pudding, so in a year >or two when my ship flies, I'll report back. > >Happy New Year --and Happy Landings -- to all! > >Fred B. >La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Subject: Re: Chuck's Video
In a message dated 12/28/2005 8:13:34 PM Central Standard Time, dmott9(at)aol.com writes: Chuck, are you setup to take PayPal ? If not, I'll get a check in the mail. Dennis Mott 131 Richmond Gate City, VA 24251 Dennis, HAPPY NEW YEAR !!! I'll get a copy of 'Flying NX770CG' to the Post Office on Monday. I trust you to send me a check or money order for $20 to: Chuck Gantzer 626 Pattie Wichita, KS 67211 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JR" <rocca(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Chuck's Video
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Chuck- Did you receive my $20 for your video, yet? THXs John Rocca _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Chuck's Video In a message dated 12/28/2005 8:13:34 PM Central Standard Time, dmott9(at)aol.com writes: Chuck, are you setup to take PayPal ? If not, I'll get a check in the mail. Dennis Mott 131 Richmond Gate City, VA 24251 Dennis, HAPPY NEW YEAR !!! I'll get a copy of 'Flying NX770CG' to the Post Office on Monday. I trust you to send me a check or money order for $20 to: Chuck Gantzer 626 Pattie Wichita, KS 67211 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Subject: Flying NX770CG video
Group, I've been away for a while, and had a wonderful Christmas with family & friends. Now, I'm wading through all the built up e-mail. Sending out video's to John Rocca, Malcolm M., and some others. Wow !! It seems to me, from the responses, that y'all like the video !! That's a big relief to me, and makes the effort worthwhile. Thank you for the wonderful comments !! I'm back to work on the building video, but it won't be as 'flashy' or exciting as the Flying video. It will be about building the Airframe of the Pietenpol Aircamper (with a few short Flying clips thrown in here & there to keep things interesting). Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: oil recommendation
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers; It won't be much longer before I'll be needing to refill the oil sump on the A65 and I'm looking for recommendations on what to use here in South Texas. Forget snow, ice, low temperatures, and all that... we are hot & dusty most of the time. I'm open to suggestions as to what oil all y'all are flying in your small Continentals in these airplanes (Piets, Cubs, early Cessnas, T-Crafts, etc.) Thanks, and here's to a new and improved 2006! Oscar Zuniga ("El Taco Flaco") San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle wheels
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Fred...Did you mean you've found a couple of smooth tires or a SOURCE of smooth tires? If so, I'd like to find out where I can get some.....Good luck with the wheels...Sounds most interesting...Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle wheels Speaking of wheels, I've purchased (on e-Bay) a pair of the solid disk cast aluminum wheels as used on Harley Davidson "Fat Boy" motorcycles. I like the 1920-ish airplane looks and I believe they are stronger than spoked wheels plus I won't have to worry about spoke maintenance, etc. They're a little heavy, which is okay on the front end of the plane, but I can lighten them a couple pounds by removing the sealed bearings and spacer inside the wheels. For just taxiing and landing and taking off, I don't think I need roller bearings -- just run the wheel on the tube axle and keep 'em greased. Also, the brake rotors will bolt right to the wheels -- just need to fabricate the caliper mount. I've also found some smooth tread tires to use, too. Anyway, this is my wheel "solution" at the moment. Of course the proof is in the pudding, so in a year or two when my ship flies, I'll report back. Happy New Year --and Happy Landings -- to all! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Going to Broadhead...
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Can anyone tell me if there is there a good reasonably priced hotel close to Broadhead for the annual Piet gathering and do I need to join Chapter 431? I plan on doing that anyway but, I didn't know if I have to be a member to get in. Thanks, Scott Robison Charleston, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: cold weather gear
Looking for advice on clothing for cold weather flying. I've tried a snow suit, but I feel like the Michelin Man. Anyone know of a supplier that has something that is thin and warm? Also gloves, and what on the head. Normally I fly with a kacki cloth helmet with a headset. Any and all inputs would be welcomed. The days here in Northern NJ are short and cold and damp, but I sure long to fly, even for a short time. I've flown during some cold days, but when I get back on the ground, I realize the whole plane is shaking,,,,,from me. thanks walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wheels and brakes......
Just a quick note from the village idiot in the north central part of the country. Has any one thought of using dics brakes and pedals from American Power Sports? They are a carting company that makes very compact and useful brakes calipers and brake pedals. If this equipment is used to stop a cart that travels around 80-100 miles per hour, why can it nor be used in our situation? Lastly, I too am interested in smooth rims as seen in Canyon Run motorcycle catalog. The question I have is what height works best when seeking out the finish wheel design? Is it 19 " or 21"? Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Going to Broadhead...
Scott, I just (2 years ago) moved from Albany, WI ( 7 miles west from Brodhead, WI) and can tell you their is excellent transportation into the city and a very updated hotel for you to stay. By the way, their is a beautiful grass strip in Albany, WI where you can land and walk over to the convenience store for goodies, gas, etc.... When you are at the annual fly-in, make sure to walk through all the hangars that are open to the public. You will see this group is probably the best antique builders group anywhere. Examine the techniques and observe the stuff several of these builders are putting together. You will be amazed at the knowledge and the creative way they can repair and put things back in the air. Truly a builders paradise. Good luck and I hope to be their someday with you in my newly started Piet project. Kenneth M. Heide Fargo, ND Robison wrote: Can anyone tell me if there is there a good reasonably priced hotel close to Broadhead for the annual Piet gathering and do I need to join Chapter 431? I plan on doing that anyway but, I didn't know if I have to be a member to get in. Thanks, Scott Robison Charleston, IL. --------------------------------- Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Subject: Re: cold weather gear
In a message dated 1/1/2006 3:02:44 PM Central Standard Time, waltdak(at)verizon.net writes: I've flown during some cold days, but when I get back on the ground, I realize the whole plane is shaking,,,,,from me. Walt, If you cover the front cockpit, you can go from uncontrolable body shaking, to just some jittering teeth... Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Subject: cold weather gear
Walt, Being from AK, feel can make a few recommendations about cold/wet weather gear. Costco is currently offering a wet/cold 2 pc. rip-stop nylon suit with velco in all the right places for about $50. Layer-up using poly longjohns under this type of wind wet tight gear and you'll be nice and cozy without the bulk. Gordon Bowen N-1033B Original Message: ----------------- From: walt evans waltdak(at)verizon.net Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:01:01 -0500 Subject: Pietenpol-List: cold weather gear Looking for advice on clothing for cold weather flying. I've tried a snow suit, but I feel like the Michelin Man. Anyone know of a supplier that has something that is thin and warm? Also gloves, and what on the head. Normally I fly with a kacki cloth helmet with a headset. Any and all inputs would be welcomed. The days here in Northern NJ are short and cold and damp, but I sure long to fly, even for a short time. I've flown during some cold days, but when I get back on the ground, I realize the whole plane is shaking,,,,,from me. thanks walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: cold weather gear
Gordon, Never shopped at Costco. When I tried their search, on their site, came up with nothing. What would it be called? thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cold weather gear > > > Walt, > Being from AK, feel can make a few recommendations about cold/wet weather > gear. Costco is currently offering a wet/cold 2 pc. rip-stop nylon suit > with velco in all the right places for about $50. Layer-up using poly > longjohns under this type of wind wet tight gear and you'll be nice and > cozy without the bulk. > Gordon Bowen > N-1033B > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: walt evans waltdak(at)verizon.net > Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:01:01 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cold weather gear > > > Looking for advice on clothing for cold weather flying. I've tried a snow > suit, but I feel like the Michelin Man. Anyone know of a supplier that > has > something that is thin and warm? Also gloves, and what on the head. > Normally I fly with a kacki cloth helmet with a headset. > Any and all inputs would be welcomed. > The days here in Northern NJ are short and cold and damp, but I sure long > to fly, even for a short time. > I've flown during some cold days, but when I get back on the ground, I > realize the whole plane is shaking,,,,,from me. > thanks > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: oil recommendation
Oscar, In the A65, we used Phillips 66 X/C 20W50 in the winter and AeroShell Oil W100 Plus for the other seasons. We operate near Atlanta. There is no particular reason for these choices - they were available and seemed to work fine. Before this, I flew a C-172 for years and its owner used AeroShell Oil W100 Plus year round. Given your location, I would be surprised if the AeroShell Oil W100 Plus or another premium single-grade isn't your best choice. Jeff > >Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers; > >It won't be much longer before I'll be needing to refill the oil >sump on the A65 and I'm looking for recommendations on what to use >here in South Texas. Forget snow, ice, low temperatures, and all >that... we are hot & dusty most of the time. I'm open to >suggestions as to what oil all y'all are flying in your small >Continentals in these airplanes (Piets, Cubs, early Cessnas, >T-Crafts, etc.) > >Thanks, and here's to a new and improved 2006! > >Oscar Zuniga ("El Taco Flaco") >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Wheels and brakes......
Ken, My rims were 18" so I guess the finish OD would be about 21" walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels and brakes...... Just a quick note from the village idiot in the north central part of the country. Has any one thought of using dics brakes and pedals from American Power Sports? They are a carting company that makes very compact and useful brakes calipers and brake pedals. If this equipment is used to stop a cart that travels around 80-100 miles per hour, why can it nor be used in our situation? Lastly, I too am interested in smooth rims as seen in Canyon Run motorcycle catalog. The question I have is what height works best when seeking out the finish wheel design? Is it 19 " or 21"? Ken Heide Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________ <005301c60f13$a0bf88a0$c3afd618@DJJYD981>
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Smooth cycle tires; Was: Motorcycle wheels
Fred, I'd be interested in the source of the smooth tires, too. Thanks, Jeff >Fred...Did you mean you've found a couple of smooth tires or a >SOURCE of smooth tires? If so, I'd like to find out where I can get >some.....Good luck with the wheels...Sounds most interesting...Carl > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com>TBYH(at)aol.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:34 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle wheels > >Speaking of wheels, I've purchased (on e-Bay) a pair of the solid >disk cast aluminum wheels as used on Harley Davidson "Fat Boy" >motorcycles. I like the 1920-ish airplane looks and I believe they >are stronger than spoked wheels plus I won't have to worry about >spoke maintenance, etc. They're a little heavy, which is okay on the >front end of the plane, but I can lighten them a couple pounds by >removing the sealed bearings and spacer inside the wheels. For just >taxiing and landing and taking off, I don't think I need roller >bearings -- just run the wheel on the tube axle and keep 'em >greased. Also, the brake rotors will bolt right to the wheels -- >just need to fabricate the caliper mount. I've also found some >smooth tread tires to use, too. Anyway, this is my wheel "solution" >at the moment. Of course the proof is in the pudding, so in a year >or two when my ship flies, I'll report back. > >Happy New Year --and Happy Landings -- to all! > >Fred B. >La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Going to Broadhead...
Scott, The Sutherland House bed and breakfast has four guest rooms. http://www.innsite.com/inns/A000310.html Earth Rider Hotel is a 5-room boutique hotel http://www.earthridercycling.com/hotel/index.php I've stayed at the Sutherland House several times. Nice place and good owners; they are very appreciative of the fly-in crowd. If the wx is good, it's beautiful but long walk to the airport. Earth Rider Hotel is new, so I don't know what it's like. HTH, Jeff >Can anyone tell me if there is there a good reasonably priced hotel >close to Broadhead for the annual Piet gathering and do I need to >join Chapter 431? I plan on doing that anyway but, I didn't know if >I have to be a member to get in. > >Thanks, > >Scott Robison >Charleston, IL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Going to Broadhead...
Date: Jan 01, 2006
Thankyou Jeff Boatright and Kenneth Heide, I' ve made reservations at the new Earth Rider Hotel. The lady on the phone was very friendly. She told me that they are only a 1/2 mile from the Piet fly-in and she would provide bicycles to their guests to ride back-n-forth and around town at their convenience. I can't wait ! See you all there... Scott Robison ________________________________________________________________________________ ETAsAhR2cMncrfHYo4d4V5MpP5mJVWn5UAIUH/K05AbuYZFcEx2zLpTCIKSG7cI=
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Subject: Piet wheels
Ken: I'm using Hagar brake kit (axels, hubs, calipers) from AS&S. They originated in the cart ind. Smooth tires. (ATV, not motorcycle) Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: oil recommendation
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Oscar, I ran straight mineral oil (SAE 50 wt) in mine for the first 25 hours for break-in. Since then I've been running Aeroshell Oil W 100, Ashless Dispersant (which is also what I've run in every plane I've ever owned, including a J-3 with an A65 Continental). Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil recommendation Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers; It won't be much longer before I'll be needing to refill the oil sump on the A65 and I'm looking for recommendations on what to use here in South Texas. Forget snow, ice, low temperatures, and all that... we are hot & dusty most of the time. I'm open to suggestions as to what oil all y'all are flying in your small Continentals in these airplanes (Piets, Cubs, early Cessnas, T-Crafts, etc.) Thanks, and here's to a new and improved 2006! Oscar Zuniga ("El Taco Flaco") San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Fuel Tank Fittings
Date: Jan 02, 2006
I was blessed over the Christmas long weekend with a visit from my son, the composites expert. We spent a considerable amount of time out in my shop building a fiberglass fuel tank for the wing center section of my Air Camper project. WHAT FUN! Anyway, we put in all the reinforced areas for the sump drains, etc. by looking at representative fittings in the ASS catalog but that got me to thinking. Are there any significant differences between aircraft grade fuel fittings and those available from, say, Autozone or NAPA? I was going to locate a filler neck from a salvage yard but am having difficulty finding one with the old style cap. Any advice? Second question. The fuel tank has to be cut out to leave room for bolt heads or nuts that go through the spar to attach the wing spar fittings and pulleys. One of these bolt locations interferes directly with the 3/8" wide compression struts. Is it acceptable to utilize a blind nut in this location so that the compression strut bears directly against it? Thanks and a Happy New Year to all. Tom Stinemetze, McPherson, KS. ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: cart brakes
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Ken, Walt has some cart brakes on his Piet. He used the mechanical drum brakes, and I've seen guys use the mechanical disk brakes too. He says they work well on asphalt, but they're not overly agressive, which he likes. Based on his last email to me, he sounds very happy with them. If I ever have to add brakes, i'd go that route and build the drum into the hub assembly so the brakes could be INSIDE the wheel. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: cart brakes
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Ken, Walt has some cart brakes on his Piet. He used the mechanical drum brakes, and I've seen guys use the mechanical disk brakes too. He says they work well on asphalt, but they're not overly agressive, which he likes. Based on his last email to me, he sounds very happy with them. If I ever have to add brakes, i'd go that route and build the drum into the hub assembly so the brakes could be INSIDE the wheel. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Fittings
Tom, From my limited experience, a lot of the fuel fittings I see in Piets and similar experimentals are natural gas fittings right from the hardware store. In fact, the "non-FAA-approved" fuel cut-off valve that Wicks sells looks identical to the natural gas hardware store item. I do not know if this is good, bad, or indifferent; it's just what I've seen. Jeff >I was blessed over the Christmas long weekend with a visit from my >son, the composites expert. We spent a considerable amount of time >out in my shop building a fiberglass fuel tank for the wing center >section of my Air Camper project. WHAT FUN! Anyway, we put in all >the reinforced areas for the sump drains, etc. by looking at >representative fittings in the ASS catalog but that got me to >thinking. Are there any significant differences between aircraft >grade fuel fittings and those available from, say, Autozone or NAPA? > I was going to locate a filler neck from a salvage yard but am >having difficulty finding one with the old style cap. Any advice? > >Second question. The fuel tank has to be cut out to leave room for >bolt heads or nuts that go through the spar to attach the wing spar >fittings and pulleys. One of these bolt locations interferes >directly with the 3/8" wide compression struts. Is it acceptable to >utilize a blind nut in this location so that the compression strut >bears directly against it? > >Thanks and a Happy New Year to all. >Tom Stinemetze, McPherson, KS. > >____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: cart brakes
This is the set-up on our Piet. As long as you keep the cables adjusted, they are OK. As Ken says that Walt says, they are not aggressive (in fact, they barely hold at run up), but they provide plenty of stopping force for us (so far!) without too much threat of being strong enough to flip the plane if you stomp on them. >Ken, > >Walt has some cart brakes on his Piet. He used the mechanical drum >brakes, and I've seen guys use the mechanical disk brakes too. > >He says they work well on asphalt, but they're not overly agressive, >which he likes. Based on his last email to me, he sounds very happy >with them. > >If I ever have to add brakes, i'd go that route and build the drum >into the hub assembly so the brakes could be INSIDE the wheel. > >Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FlyCorvair update
Date: Jan 02, 2006
... is on William's website, at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html with some pictures from his "winter whirlwind trip" over the holidays. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: javcr <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Piets at houston
Hi friends, my best wishes for this 2006 for all. Someone here knows the mail of Hans van der Voort, it looks that there are a good piet on the Houston area, i have the tuesday off so maybe i have the chance of some pictures... Javier Cruz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: Piets at houston
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Javier: Where you been, compadre? ----- Original Message ----- From: "javcr" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piets at houston > > Hi friends, my best wishes for this 2006 for all. > > Someone here knows the mail of Hans van der Voort, it looks that there are > a good piet on the Houston area, i have the tuesday off so maybe i have > the chance of some pictures... > Javier Cruz > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wheels and brakes......
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Ken I am using Wildwood kart hydrolic calipers with my Harley rotors. They work fine , but they only hold to about 1400 rpm on the A-65. Thats not much of a problem, better than too much grip and nosing over. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wheels and brakes...... Just a quick note from the village idiot in the north central part of the country. Has any one thought of using dics brakes and pedals from American Power Sports? They are a carting company that makes very compact and useful brakes calipers and brake pedals. If this equipment is used to stop a cart that travels around 80-100 miles per hour, why can it nor be used in our situation? Lastly, I too am interested in smooth rims as seen in Canyon Run motorcycle catalog. The question I have is what height works best when seeking out the finish wheel design? Is it 19 " or 21"? Ken Heide Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Fuel cells?
*Was looking through my Summit Racing catalog today and noticed that they sell reasonably priced fuel cells make of 5051 ** powdercoated **aluminum or polyethylene. They are for race cars so they are far more crash-resistent than anything I could build out of aluminum or glass and they use all AN vent and pickup fittings. They come in 3 to 20 gal. capacities ($90 to $200). Has anyone heard of something like this being used in a Piet for a behind the firewall fuel tank?* -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Piets at houston
Javier, You are more than welcome. My address is; 32226 Windrose Lane Waller Texas. 20 miles NW of Houston (take Hwy 290, exit FM 362, 5 miles south) My House is at Waller Skydive airport, 3XS7, Hangar and airstrip in the back yard. I will be back to work on Tuesday but if you can make at around 4 PM. I will be home. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Subject: Re: oil recommendation
In a message dated 1/2/2006 8:10:04 AM Central Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: Hi Oscar, I ran straight mineral oil (SAE 50 wt) in mine for the first 25 hours for break-in. Since then I've been running Aeroshell Oil W 100, Ashless Dispersant (which is also what I've run in every plane I've ever owned, including a J-3 with an A65 Continental). Jack Phillips NX899JP Hey Oscar, I used the same exact sequence that Jack did. I changed the oil after the first hour, then about every 5 hours, then after about 30 hrs of operation, I switched to the Aeroshell W100. I never have found anything in the screen, other than some carbon that would smush to carbon black between my thumb and finger. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: oil recommendation
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Oscar: ECI in San Antonio mandates mineral oil for break-in. ECI produces a very good pamplet about why mineral oil is critical for break-in. They are friendly folks (having done two engines with them) and you can just drop into their office an pick up their literature if you are close by. Sterling ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: oil recommendation In a message dated 1/2/2006 8:10:04 AM Central Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: Hi Oscar, I ran straight mineral oil (SAE 50 wt) in mine for the first 25 hours for break-in. Since then I've been running Aeroshell Oil W 100, Ashless Dispersant (which is also what I've run in every plane I've ever owned, including a J-3 with an A65 Continental). Jack Phillips NX899JP Hey Oscar, I used the same exact sequence that Jack did. I changed the oil after the first hour, then about every 5 hours, then after about 30 hrs of operation, I switched to the Aeroshell W100. I never have found anything in the screen, other than some carbon that would smush to carbon black between my thumb and finger. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________ <000e01c60fda$197f7b30$6400a8c0@Sterling>
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: fuselage+tail weight?
Listers, Randy tells me that his steel fuselage and tail members weigh 110 lbs. Does anyone know what the wooden equivalents weight? Thanks, Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: oil recommendation
Oscar, Are you trying to break in a newly-rebuilt engine? If so, sorry, I misunderstood. As others have written, straight mineral oil without dispersants should be used for break in. Some shops call for this even with just (relatively) simple cylinder replacement. Jeff > >Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers; > >It won't be much longer before I'll be needing to refill the oil >sump on the A65 and I'm looking for recommendations on what to use >here in South Texas. Forget snow, ice, low temperatures, and all >that... we are hot & dusty most of the time. I'm open to >suggestions as to what oil all y'all are flying in your small >Continentals in these airplanes (Piets, Cubs, early Cessnas, >T-Crafts, etc.) > >Thanks, and here's to a new and improved 2006! > >Oscar Zuniga ("El Taco Flaco") ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Fittings
Tom et All, Fuel related reasons are the cause for the majority of off field landings. Therefore, extensive research & design Must be put in to your fuel system. See what works, and what doesn't work. Keep the final design simple. Use only quality fittings (aviation fittings are 37=BA), and carefully route and secure all fuel lines. Use 3/8" alum line, and be sure it supplies adequate fuel quantity at the carburetor, with a very tail low attitude, before the first flight. As for my fuel system, I have two fuel tanks (9.7 gal Wing / 10.6 Cowl), both made from fiberglass and Polyester resin (auto body repair). I think I would use West System Epoxy if I would do it again., because they say Alcohol will effect the polyester type resin, although I've not seen any degradation in the resin...so far. One outlet in the center of the wing tank at the lowest point when in level attitude, with a ball valve right above the passenger's head, operated by a torque tube type handle. The cowling tank has one outlet, at the lowest point in the center front of the tank, through the firewall, and has a ball valve on the engine side of the firewall. That's not an acceptable place for the valve...it should be on the aft side of the firewall. It drains down to the gascolator, located on the lowest point in the fuel system for sump. The gascolator MUST be above the bottom of the firewall, in case you wipe out the gear, the fuel system is not violated. There are SO many things that must be considered in the design of a reliable fuel system...like to keep a continous downhill flow for water to get to the gascolator (no loops, or back uphill route) with the fuel lines. I have Never found any water in my fuel system, but I still sump before EVERY flight. And above all - Keep it Simple. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG p.s. My West Virginia Mountaineers are KICKIN' Georgia Butt in the Sugar Bowl !!!!!!! first quarter - W V U - 21 Georgia - 0 YEEEE HAAAWWW !! GO MOUNTAINEERS !!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A65 idle RPM
Date: Jan 02, 2006
Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended idle RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed in a week or two, and need to know what these engines like. Thanks! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: oil recommendation
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Thanks to all y'all who replied on the oil recommendation... it was unanimous that the Aeroshell W100, SAE50 ashless dispersant is what is recommended. So let it be written... so let it be done! And to those who asked, this is NOT for break-in duty. Corky had already broken in the engine and flown off the required hours prior to selling me the airplane. I'm repairing/reworking several things and the engine will need to be refilled. One thing that is being repaired/reworked is the oil sump, which took a hit from the carb getting pushed back into it. Which is the reason for the flurry of posts from me over the past two weeks, relating to engine things. I hope to once again be hearing the purr of the stoic Continental within two weeks, Lord willing. So... idle RPM recommendations-? What I worry about are things like this, from Harry Fenton: "Wood props with an idle set below 450 rpm will cause this problem [broken impulse coupling or spings] as the impulse coupling will click continuously until the spring fails." TACOs forever! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: oil recommendation
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Oscar, Mine will idle at 450 RPM, but like Harry Fenton says, the impulses rattle and click at that speed. I set mine to idle at about 600 RPM when warm. When the engine first starts, I let it idle a little faster - maybe 700 RPM. One thing I found with mine at first was that I was getting a series of small backfires at idle. Turned out one of my intake elbows was not tigthened down to the cylinder head, causing a small vacuum leak, which effectively leaned the mixture going into that cylinder. If you hear some small backfires at idle, check all your intake elbows. Good Luck! It'll be good to have NX41CC back amongst the flying. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- Thanks to all y'all who replied on the oil recommendation... it was unanimous that the Aeroshell W100, SAE50 ashless dispersant is what is recommended. So let it be written... so let it be done! And to those who asked, this is NOT for break-in duty. Corky had already broken in the engine and flown off the required hours prior to selling me the airplane. I'm repairing/reworking several things and the engine will need to be refilled. One thing that is being repaired/reworked is the oil sump, which took a hit from the carb getting pushed back into it. Which is the reason for the flurry of posts from me over the past two weeks, relating to engine things. I hope to once again be hearing the purr of the stoic Continental within two weeks, Lord willing. So... idle RPM recommendations-? What I worry about are things like this, from Harry Fenton: "Wood props with an idle set below 450 rpm will cause this problem [broken impulse coupling or spings] as the impulse coupling will click continuously until the spring fails." TACOs forever! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: idle speed
Oscar-- ditto Jack's numbers on rpm. Mine idles about 600 nicely. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Subject: Re: oil recommendation
Oscar, 41CC was shipped to you with Shell Aero 100 and the idle RPM of 600 to 700. Somewhere way back yonder I was instructed never to set an idle lower than 600 and to avoid a prolonged idle, to avoid fouling the plugs. Of course I'm no A&E&P or whatever but I still can remember a few little things. It was probabaly in flight school where we were flying L-16's equipped with 85's and 90's. both fuel injected. Also when I had my 150 STC'd it was required that the rpm be raised to 750 idle for auto gas. Avoid anything below 600 is my advice. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Subject: Re: cold weather gear
Walt, Sorry for the delay to your email, Bowl week. Anyway, Costco seems to rotate stock fairly frequently, they currently have these cold/wet weather suits on sale at their location here in Ogden UT, don't know if its something they stock all the time or on their website. Helly Hansen foul weather suits are favorites of the guys who go off to the Bering Sea for fishing and crabbing, but little heavy with rubberized nylon due to wear and tear. I have one of these suits for boating in my open cockpit Boston Whaler for Alaska. These suits are also supplied at higher cost at most marine suppliers like- West. Offshore Sailors like them, too. I thought the $50 suit from Costco was a heck of a deal for a Piete type application. Lighter weight nylon ripstop and good seals to water and wind. Gordon Original Message: ----------------- From: walt evans waltdak(at)verizon.net Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:02:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cold weather gear Gordon, Never shopped at Costco. When I tried their search, on their site, came up with nothing. What would it be called? thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cold weather gear > > > Walt, > Being from AK, feel can make a few recommendations about cold/wet weather > gear. Costco is currently offering a wet/cold 2 pc. rip-stop nylon suit > with velco in all the right places for about $50. Layer-up using poly > longjohns under this type of wind wet tight gear and you'll be nice and > cozy without the bulk. > Gordon Bowen > N-1033B > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: walt evans waltdak(at)verizon.net > Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:01:01 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cold weather gear > > > Looking for advice on clothing for cold weather flying. I've tried a snow > suit, but I feel like the Michelin Man. Anyone know of a supplier that > has > something that is thin and warm? Also gloves, and what on the head. > Normally I fly with a kacki cloth helmet with a headset. > Any and all inputs would be welcomed. > The days here in Northern NJ are short and cold and damp, but I sure long > to fly, even for a short time. > I've flown during some cold days, but when I get back on the ground, I > realize the whole plane is shaking,,,,,from me. > thanks > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Re: fuselage+tail weight?
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Jeff, I weighed my fuselage a while ago and just weighed the tail feathers. I believe the fuselage was about 75lbs completely bare - only wood The tail feathers I just weighed are VS 1.4lbs Rudder 1.9lbs Elevator 1.8lbs (3.6 for both) HS 6.25lbs So with no hardware or covering material that would total under 87lbs. Hope this helps Kirk On Jan 2, 2006, at 7:52 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > > > Listers, > > Randy tells me that his steel fuselage and tail members weigh 110 > lbs. Does anyone know what the wooden equivalents weight? > > Thanks, > > Jeff > -- > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Atlanta, GA 30322 > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > http://www.molvis.org/ > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > Kirk Huizenga Community Expert kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org 651.482.8203 my views are not necessarily the view of my employer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Irwin Fust <ifust(at)digitalpath.net>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Oscar, I have an A-65 in my other plane, an Aeronca Chief, and I have the idle set at 650 rpm. It runs so smooooth. A Continental A-65 is such a bullet proof engine. Easy to maintain. Easy to fix. Hardly ever breaks down. It'll run forever. The only "down side" is that it is only 65 horsepower and it doesn't have a starter (but, who really needs one?). It's a great engine for a Pietenpol! Irwin Fust Anderson, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Oscar Dittos with Mike. I run at 600 after warm up for a couple of minutes at 750. Dick n. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- > > For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended idle > RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed in a week > or two, and need to know what these engines like. > > Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gusset dimensions
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
After a long break I'm back in my basement working on the horizontal stabilizer and the rest of the tail feathers. I've lofted most of the h.s. plans to the assembly table for starters, but am concerned that there are no dimensions for the gusset plates. Someone at Brodhead had said to basically eyeball the proportions to get them right, which is what I've basically done. But the plan isn't to scale and I'm wondering if that is good enough. Everyone seems to do these a tad differently. I've checked the archive list, the Flying and Glider manual, and A.C. 43-13b for clues without coming up with much on how to figure the safest and lightest-weight dimensions. Before I start butchering perfectly good plywood I'd be open to advice. Also noticed that someone on mykitplanes.com had lightening holes in some of the plates and was wondering what the consensus is on that. Thanks, Mark Hodgson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Oscar, After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems getting the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle setting, and when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it stumbled, and belched black smoke. Kind of scarey. After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as silk. Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. Ain't life Grand? walt evans NX140DL Still wish I could add a starter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- > > For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended idle > RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed in a week > or two, and need to know what these engines like. > > Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Discs for brakes
Regarding disc brake discussions: Does anyone have a name and part number of a suitable disc to use for disc brakes. I would like to attach the discs to a straight axle hub similar to that shown in the "Flying and Glider Manual". I have a set of small mechanically operated calipers. Thank you. John --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
I trust while you are walking to the car to retrieve your helmet and goggles there is a qualified pilot sitting in the cockpit minding this aircraft for you???????????????? > > Oscar, > After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems > getting the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle > setting, and when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it > stumbled, and belched black smoke. Kind of scarey. > After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down > where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. > It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet > and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as > silk. Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. > Ain't life Grand? > walt evans > NX140DL > Still wish I could add a starter. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:44 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > >> >> >> Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- >> >> For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended >> idle RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed >> in a week or two, and need to know what these engines like. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Discs for brakes
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Try www.kartworld.com They have a few alternitives. I chose the Wildwood brand. They also have mechanical types. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Egan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Discs for brakes Regarding disc brake discussions: Does anyone have a name and part number of a suitable disc to use for disc brakes. I would like to attach the discs to a straight axle hub similar to that shown in the "Flying and Glider Manual". I have a set of small mechanically operated calipers. Thank you. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Wing Build Question
Date: Jan 03, 2006
I've been gawking at Hoopman Wing Plan (WP) Drawing (3/3/34), the Full Size Rib Plan and the 3 Piece Wing Supplement drawing (1/10/75 revised 3/13/82) and need a little help before I build my rib jig and start cranking out garbage. Full size rib plan shows vertical braces in the ribs one behind the front spar and one ahead of the rear spar. 3/3/34 WP drawing doesn't show these. These vertical braces seem like they definitely should be there for strength and alignment reasons, right? Full Size Rib Plan shows a slot for a tongue in the trailing edge. Do you have to create your own TE stock? Didn't see it on Aircraft Spruce site, but it might be called something else and I'm looking in the wrong place. Original WP drawing (3/3/34) shows a 1" x 4.75" spar routed down to 1/2" in certain areas. 3 Piece Wing Supp. shows a dimension of 3/4" for thickness for spars and the same routed areas but no dimension on the thickness in the routed area. (Still maintain a 1/2" thickness inside routed area and remove 1/8" from each side?) Did Mr. Pietenpol determine that 1" was overkill? 3/4" just seems a little light. Again, I will now take the lead for the least advanced questions posted on the list ...if your rib jig has clamps that hold the gussets in place while the T-88 sets, do you even need nails? I would think that 99.9% of the strength would come from the adhesive. I plan to use a custom clamp arrangement using light springs to distribute the pressure without starving the joint. Thanks, Glenn Thomas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Build Question
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Glenn I started out stapling all gussetts to the ribs and removing later. I later found that was really not needed. With T-88, simply pressing into place was fine. I made my trailing edge stock by sawing down pieces of Douglas Fir from the lumber yard. It is stronger than Sitca, but heavier. There is some high quality stock available used for flooring. There is also aluminum TE stock in the ACS cataloug, if you want to go that way. I made mine by the method on the full size plan, I have seen it both ways. The wing is so over built it really doesn't make a structural difference. Paul Poberenzy built a Piet wing with 1/4x1/4 ribs. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Build Question I've been gawking at Hoopman Wing Plan (WP) Drawing (3/3/34), the Full Size Rib Plan and the 3 Piece Wing Supplement drawing (1/10/75 revised 3/13/82) and need a little help before I build my rib jig and start cranking out garbage. Full size rib plan shows vertical braces in the ribs one behind the front spar and one ahead of the rear spar. 3/3/34 WP drawing doesn't show these. These vertical braces seem like they definitely should be there for strength and alignment reasons, right? Full Size Rib Plan shows a slot for a tongue in the trailing edge. Do you have to create your own TE stock? Didn't see it on Aircraft Spruce site, but it might be called something else and I'm looking in the wrong place. Original WP drawing (3/3/34) shows a 1" x 4.75" spar routed down to 1/2" in certain areas. 3 Piece Wing Supp. shows a dimension of 3/4" for thickness for spars and the same routed areas but no dimension on the thickness in the routed area. (Still maintain a 1/2" thickness inside routed area and remove 1/8" from each side?) Did Mr. Pietenpol determine that 1" was overkill? 3/4" just seems a little light. Again, I will now take the lead for the least advanced questions posted on the list ...if your rib jig has clamps that hold the gussets in place while the T-88 sets, do you even need nails? I would think that 99.9% of the strength would come from the adhesive. I plan to use a custom clamp arrangement using light springs to distribute the pressure without starving the joint. Thanks, Glenn Thomas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Re: Discs for brakes
Looks like they closed shop recently. >>> horzpool(at)goldengate.net 01/03/06 8:41 PM >>> Try www.kartworld.com They have a few alternitives. I chose the Wildwood brand. They also have mechanical types. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Egan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 5:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Discs for brakes Regarding disc brake discussions: Does anyone have a name and part number of a suitable disc to use for disc brakes. I would like to attach the discs to a straight axle hub similar to that shown in the "Flying and Glider Manual". I have a set of small mechanically operated calipers. Thank you. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Adding starter to a Piet is like adding wheel pants :-) or converting it to tricycle... out of "time" but probably safe.. Also I dont dare to leave my plane idling anatended, Murphy's goast might be just floating around... Saludos Gary Gower walt evans wrote: Oscar, After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems getting the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle setting, and when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it stumbled, and belched black smoke. Kind of scarey. After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as silk. Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. Ain't life Grand? walt evans NX140DL Still wish I could add a starter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- > > For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended idle > RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed in a week > or two, and need to know what these engines like. > > Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Date: Jan 03, 2006
Group, Having had a close association with the small Continentals, mainly those equipped with the Stromberg carburetors, for well over 50 years, I have found that 550 to 600 rpm at static idle is about right. The following procedures have worked well for me: It is important to warm the engine thoroughly and adjust the idle mixture first (idle speed to be adjusted later) by means of the big brass screw on the aft side of the upper carburetor body. With the engine idling (throttle fully closed) slowly turn this screw counterclockwise to enrich the mixture. When the engine begins to run roughly, it is time to slowly turn the screw clockwise to lean the mixture. As you do so, it is a good idea to open the throttle a bit to clear excessive richness, then close the throttle again and continue to slowly lean the mixture until the engine begins to run roughly. Then turn the screw counterclockwise until the engine idles smoothly (usually not more than 1/2 turn is required). You may find the idle rpm is now a bit too fast--especially if the idle mixture was set too rich at the beginning. Adjust the idle speed after clearing the engine with a short burst of throttle, and you should "be in business". To check the idle mixture setting, turn off the fuel with the throttle closed and let the engine idle until it runs out of fuel. Ideally, the idle rpm will increase slightly just before the engine stops. In our climate (Alberta, Canada), it is customary to increase the idle speed to about 600 rpm in the winter and enrich the idle mixture by 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the adjusting screw. Summer setting is about 550 rpm with the mixture adjusted as described previously. The Stromberg does not have an accelerator pump and the engine may quit if the throttle is opened too quickly when doing a gliding approach on a cold day. For this reason, we generally avoid power-off, engine idling, approaches in the winter. Of course, these precautions don't apply to you folks in the warm, sunny south! Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Just thought I'd check because there have been those in the past that have walked away from an idling aircraft and not only do they look like an idiot but damage to other aircraft has been known to happen;good to here you arn't one of those guys or gals. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Discs for brakes
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
One thing to bear in mind if you are using the large diameter wire wheels - it is hard to stop a large diameter wheel. I've got 21" wheels on my Piet, with Cleveland 8" disc brakes. Those brakes are able to hold it for a runup on grass, but not at full power. On pavement, even a runup at 1500 RPM will cause a slow creep with the brakes on as hard as I can hold them. I noticed on Dick Navratil's pictures of his beautiful radial powered Pietenpol that he is using standard Harley-Davidson discs, which are about 12" in diameter. These should be much better than the smaller Clevelands. Airplanes quit using big wheels about the time they started using brakes. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Subject: Pietenpol-List: Discs for brakes Regarding disc brake discussions: Does anyone have a name and part number of a suitable disc to use for disc brakes. I would like to attach the discs to a straight axle hub similar to that shown in the "Flying and Glider Manual". I have a set of small mechanically operated calipers. Thank you. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Build Question
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Glenn, Good questions. See answers in Bold below: Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Build Question I've been gawking at Hoopman Wing Plan (WP) Drawing (3/3/34), the Full Size Rib Plan and the 3 Piece Wing Supplement drawing (1/10/75 revised 3/13/82) and need a little help before I build my rib jig and start cranking out garbage. That's not garbage - that's a "Wall Hanging" Full size rib plan shows vertical braces in the ribs one behind the front spar and one ahead of the rear spar. 3/3/34 WP drawing doesn't show these. These vertical braces seem like they definitely should be there for strength and alignment reasons, right? I added these verticals on mine. Full Size Rib Plan shows a slot for a tongue in the trailing edge. Do you have to create your own TE stock? Didn't see it on Aircraft Spruce site, but it might be called something else and I'm looking in the wrong place. I used aluminum trailing edge stock from Aircraft Spruce. Be every careful if using this to make sure the rib trailing adge goes all the way into the trailing edge bend line, otherwise the tension from the shrunk fabric will gradually cause the TE to move, which will make a series of small puckers in the fabric just ahead of the TE. The aluminum TE is very light, and makes a nice sharp trailing edge to the airfoil, but it is easily bent if someone bumps their head into it. If I had it to do over, I'm not sure I would use it, but would probably use the wooden trailing shown on the plans. Original WP drawing (3/3/34) shows a 1" x 4.75" spar routed down to 1/2" in certain areas. 3 Piece Wing Supp. shows a dimension of 3/4" for thickness for spars and the same routed areas but no dimension on the thickness in the routed area. (Still maintain a 1/2" thickness inside routed area and remove 1/8" from each side?) Did Mr. Pietenpol determine that 1" was overkill? 3/4" just seems a little light. =BE" is the thickness used on any number of aerobatic airplanes, including Citabrias and Pitts Specials. It is plenty strong enough. I used =BE" spars fore and aft on mine, and routed the rear spars down to =BD" thickness per the plans. This saved almost 4 lbs of weight (Sitka spruce spars - it would save even more on Douglas Fir). Again, I will now take the lead for the least advanced questions posted on the list ...if your rib jig has clamps that hold the gussets in place while the T-88 sets, do you even need nails? I would think that 99.9% of the strength would come from the adhesive. I plan to use a custom clamp arrangement using light springs to distribute the pressure without starving the joint. Clamps are good enough for T-88. If you are using Resorcinol you need more pressure than that, and will need nails spaced =BE" apart. The nails can be pulled out after the glue cures. Thanks, Glenn Thomas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: A65 idle RPM
Date: Jan 04, 2006
Winter in Canada - I'd start my old T-Craft, leave it tied up, and go back in for a coffee for at least 10 minutes. What else are you going to do @ -20C? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harvey Rule Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM I trust while you are walking to the car to retrieve your helmet and goggles there is a qualified pilot sitting in the cockpit minding this aircraft for you???????????????? > > Oscar, > After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems > getting the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle > setting, and when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it > stumbled, and belched black smoke. Kind of scarey. > After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down > where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. > It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet > and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as > silk. Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. > Ain't life Grand? > walt evans > NX140DL > Still wish I could add a starter. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:44 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > >> >> >> Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- >> >> For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended >> idle RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed >> in a week or two, and need to know what these engines like. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: wooden trailing edge idea---sketch attached
As an alternative to using aluminum trailing edge material for your Pietenpol, I tried this method which I found to be very satisfactory in strength and hangar rash resistance. I simply butt glued this TE piece to the ends of the ribs and then clamped strips of 1/6" birch plywood to top and bottom overlapping TE piece and end of wing rib. After the assembly was cured I went back and 'feathered in' the birch strips so there wouldn't be as noticeable under the fabric--which they are not. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Leaving it tied up is OK but I'd still have someone standing by ,just in case but you wouldn't believe the stuff I've seen guys do.Or heard of guys doing.I understand cold;I live in Ottawa.But I'd still have a body warmed up and breathing standing there.It would be just my luck that something would go wrong. Robert Gow wrote: > > > Winter in Canada - I'd start my old T-Craft, leave it tied up, and go back > in for a coffee for at least 10 minutes. What else are you going to do > @ -20C? > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Harvey > Rule > Sent: January 3, 2006 9:26 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > I trust while you are walking to the car to retrieve your helmet and > goggles there is a qualified pilot sitting in the cockpit minding this > aircraft for you???????????????? > > > > > Oscar, > > After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems > > getting the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle > > setting, and when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it > > stumbled, and belched black smoke. Kind of scarey. > > After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down > > where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. > > It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet > > and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as > > silk. Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. > > Ain't life Grand? > > walt evans > > NX140DL > > Still wish I could add a starter. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > > To: > > Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:44 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > > > >> > >> > >> Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- > >> > >> For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended > >> idle RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed > >> in a week or two, and need to know what these engines like. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> > >> Oscar Zuniga > >> San Antonio, TX > >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Build Question
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Hodgson, Mark O" <mhodgson(at)bu.edu>
Glenn, The vertical struts are probably a good idea. Charlie Rubeck (may he rest in peace) said at Brodhead that if you included them, you didn't need the wedge at the top of the spar below the cap strip. I used the vertical struts, but the Tech Counselor from my EAA chapter who inspected my ribs thought it's a good idea to put the wedges in anyway (I'll worry about that before I put the ribs on the spar, but I've got enough to do in the meantime). Nails aren't necessary; 1/4 inch staples work great and will hold the rib together so it can dry outside of the jig. Removing them isn't hard, either, using a ground-down butter-knife blade (Charlie's technique). There are lots of opinions on the trailing edge--check the Matronics archives, etc. Good luck, Mark Hodgson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Jan 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Gusset dimensions
I didn't see an answer to you questions but I just scaled mine from the dwg. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: wooden trailing edge idea---sketch attached
Not only do I like this, it seems in keeping with BHP's resourceful style. Thanks, Glenn ---- Michael D Cuy wrote: > As an alternative to using aluminum trailing edge material for your > Pietenpol, I tried this method which I found to be very satisfactory > in strength and hangar rash resistance. I simply butt glued this TE piece > to the ends of the ribs and then clamped strips of 1/6" birch > plywood to top and bottom overlapping TE piece and end of wing rib. > > After the assembly was cured I went back and 'feathered in' the birch > strips so there wouldn't be as noticeable under the fabric--which they > are not. > > Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
<001301c610b5$b9b63950$6401a8c0@walt> <43BB3225.4040909(at)sympatico.ca> Nah, the car is 15 feet away walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harvey Rule" <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > I trust while you are walking to the car to retrieve your helmet and > goggles there is a qualified pilot sitting in the cockpit minding this > aircraft for you???????????????? > >> >> Oscar, >> After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems getting >> the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle setting, and >> when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it stumbled, and belched >> black smoke. Kind of scarey. >> After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down >> where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. >> It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet >> and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as silk. >> Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. >> Ain't life Grand? >> walt evans >> NX140DL >> Still wish I could add a starter. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:44 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM >> >> >>> >>> >>> Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- >>> >>> For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended idle >>> RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed in a >>> week or two, and need to know what these engines like. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Oscar Zuniga >>> San Antonio, TX >>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Spring landing gear!
Chuck G. NX770CG Chuck, I had the opportunity to enjoy your video and love your approach in life. Reminds of this statement...."Compassion is difficult to give away because it keeps coming back". I am wondering if you can forward me (to my e-mail) the drawings and information on your spring landing gear set-up. I like your system (for several reasons) and wish to incorporate it into my piet. Can you give me the necessary information to purchase springs, tubing, etc...... Keep flying and remember us in North Dakota....same flat land as Kansas! Ken Heide kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com --------------------------------- Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Seat belt information.....
Pieter's...... Seeking design information and drawing/photos of the upper seat belt support set-up used in the piet. As mentioned in other messages, the town idiot is new to the list serve and this information may have been posted before. If you could direct me in the right direction......much appreciated. Otherwise please send the information to my e-mail address so I can create a nice system for my piet. Seatbeltcerly, Ken Heide kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Seat belt information.....
Date: Jan 04, 2006
Ken I ran a 3/32" cable from the tail wheel post forward with a "Y" in it. The upper goes to the shoulder harness and the bottom has a second "Y" to each side of the seat belts. The inspector was very happy with that. My passanger belt mounts go through the ash block behind the seat on each side . They are each a stainless eye bolt. The belts clip into them. The harness attaches to a bracket on the turtle deck which is also a windshield attach point. I had attached to top of a cabane as I have seen others do but the inspector wouldnt allow it. He was afraid of possible effects of a wing buckling forward in a crash. It was a easy change and kept him happy. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belt information..... Pieter's...... Seeking design information and drawing/photos of the upper seat belt support set-up used in the piet. As mentioned in other messages, the town idiot is new to the list serve and this information may have been posted before. If you could direct me in the right direction......much appreciated. Otherwise please send the information to my e-mail address so I can create a nice system for my piet. Seatbeltcerly, Ken Heide kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Big Tundra Tires
Date: Jan 04, 2006
Anyone ever used big tires on their Piets? I've seen photos of Piets w/ larger tires used w/ the J3 Cub gear. Those Bushwheels are really expensive($2400.00) I can't seen to find anything cheaper. I wonder if 4 ply ATV tires could be used... Any thoughts? Scott Robison ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Fw: Big Tundra Tires
Date: Jan 05, 2006
----- Original Message ----- From: Robison Subject: Big Tundra Tires Anyone ever used big tires on their Piets? I've seen photos of Piets w/ larger tires used w/ the J3 Cub gear. Those Bushwheels are really expensive($2400.00) I can't seen to find anything cheaper. I wonder if 4 ply ATV tires could be used... Any thoughts? Scott Robison ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: A65 idle RPM
Just far enough away that if the engine was to rev for some strange reason or a gust of wind comes along that you could be in a world of shit. walt evans wrote: > > > Nah, the car is 15 feet away > walt evans > NX140DL > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harvey Rule" <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > > > > > > > I trust while you are walking to the car to retrieve your helmet and > > goggles there is a qualified pilot sitting in the cockpit minding this > > aircraft for you???????????????? > > > >> > >> Oscar, > >> After my rebuild for putting it in the piet, I had some problems getting > >> the idle mixture right. Had an approach at a low throttle setting, and > >> when I came on with the throttle for a fly-by, it stumbled, and belched > >> black smoke. Kind of scarey. > >> After I got it leaned to the correct (it seems) setting, It idles down > >> where my Mentor said was right,,,around 550/600. > >> It is a sweet sound, after you start and walk to the car to get helmet > >> and goggles, you turn and look at it just popping along, smooth as silk. > >> Hard to realize that it is 1945 technology. > >> Ain't life Grand? > >> walt evans > >> NX140DL > >> Still wish I could add a starter. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:44 PM > >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 idle RPM > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Howdy again, Low 'n' Slow fliers- > >>> > >>> For those flying behind Continental A65s, what is the recommended idle > >>> RPM? I've got a rebuilt carb and will be setting the idle speed in a > >>> week or two, and need to know what these engines like. > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> Oscar Zuniga > >>> San Antonio, TX > >>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > >>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fw: Big Tundra Tires
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2006
27, 2005) at 01/05/2006 02:29:22 PM Scott, I friend of mine has a Kitfox with 8" Matco wheels and 8 x 8 ATV tires, rib profile shaved off. No problems with that setup. But I think it looks to big, probably amphibious too :) I use Matco 6' wheels (W62) with 4 ply 6 x 6.00 Airtrac tires, proportionally the right size for my Pietenpol, at least I think so. I fly off a grass strip that has seen better days. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: seat belts/harness
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Ken, I guess we all have our little "hang-ups" and safety harness is one of mine. I've probably overengineered mine, but with that panel so close to my face, it gives me more peace of mind. I've fashioned a glass seat bottom with a scoop for my rump which is not only much more comfortable, it also drops me down almost two inches into the cockpit. Now, if I run the harness out the top of the turtle deck, the angle is right and would minimize any spine compression, which is a possibility if the harness originates much lower than one's shoulders. I welded up a very light tubular pylon that mounts just inside the turtle deck, to which my harness bolts. Then a cable runs from that bolt, back to the tailskid mounting area. If I remember correctly, the pilot's seat belt bolts through both the vertical member with some ash blocking. The passenger seat belt bolts through the bottom crossmember and through the metal strap that runs between gear fittings on the bottom of the fuse. I am planning on snapping my passenger's harness to the rear X bracing (rods in my case), as this should spread any load between many fittings, but we'll see if my inspector lets it go. That's a really hard spot to find a good anchor. I do have some shots and drawings somewhere from England of a pretty nice Piet installation. you'd have to plan very early since it really must be fitted while the fuse is in the works. if you want, email me and I'll TRY to find them. Douwe douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: seat belts/harness
I use a three piece military belt set up I bought from Aircraft Spruce.I attached the shoulder portion through a slot I made in the top of the seat just above the board you remove to look in the fuzy.I ran the single belt portion part of the"Y"through and around a cable that was already in place for me(thanks to the previous builders).I used the bracket that was sent with the belt to secure it at the proper length.Then I drilled two holes on either side of the fuzy through the longerones to secure the belt portion along with a plate that was fashioned to extend from one longeron to the next for extra strength.Then I had to patch the fabric in the fuzy again with ceconite in order to cover my handy work.I hated cuting those holes in the fabric but for some strange reason the previous owners didn't install the seat belt.What are ya gonna do?I now have a pretty safe set up.The seat belt portion is about 5 inches wide and the shoulder harnes is 2 inches wide, either side.They have loops to put the shoulder portion through as you do up the belt.I think I paid about 66$ US for the harness.Just from memory.I havn't used this set up yet but when I strapped myself in I wasn't going anywhere; I can tell you that much.There is no way I could hit that panel unless I was stretch Armstrong! The AME helping me sez if that set up breaks it don't matter because the whole damn plane will be in pieces anyway.Good luck!I hope this helps you out and if you need pics I can take a trip to the airstrip and take a few for you if you wish. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: seat belts/harness
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Harvey: I'd like to see some pictures of your set up. Thanks, Sterling Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness > > I use a three piece military belt set up I bought from Aircraft Spruce.I > attached the shoulder portion through a slot I made in the top of the > seat just above the board you remove to look in the fuzy.I ran the > single belt portion part of the"Y"through and around a cable that was > already in place for me(thanks to the previous builders).I used the > bracket that was sent with the belt to secure it at the proper > length.Then I drilled two holes on either side of the fuzy through the > longerones to secure the belt portion along with a plate that was > fashioned to extend from one longeron to the next for extra > strength.Then I had to patch the fabric in the fuzy again with ceconite > in order to cover my handy work.I hated cuting those holes in the fabric > but for some strange reason the previous owners didn't install the seat > belt.What are ya gonna do?I now have a pretty safe set up.The seat belt > portion is about 5 inches wide and the shoulder harnes is 2 inches wide, > either side.They have loops to put the shoulder portion through as you > do up the belt.I think I paid about 66$ US for the harness.Just from > memory.I havn't used this set up yet but when I strapped myself in I > wasn't going anywhere; I can tell you that much.There is no way I could > hit that panel unless I was stretch Armstrong! The AME helping me sez if > that set up breaks it don't matter because the whole damn plane will be > in pieces anyway.Good luck!I hope this helps you out and if you need > pics I can take a trip to the airstrip and take a few for you if you > wish. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: seat belts/harness
Ok I'll shoot down tonight after work(3:30 pm )and take some.I'll e-mail em tomorrow. Sterling wrote: > > > Harvey: > > I'd like to see some pictures of your set up. > > Thanks, > > Sterling Brooks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:49 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness > > > > > I use a three piece military belt set up I bought from Aircraft Spruce.I > > attached the shoulder portion through a slot I made in the top of the > > seat just above the board you remove to look in the fuzy.I ran the > > single belt portion part of the"Y"through and around a cable that was > > already in place for me(thanks to the previous builders).I used the > > bracket that was sent with the belt to secure it at the proper > > length.Then I drilled two holes on either side of the fuzy through the > > longerones to secure the belt portion along with a plate that was > > fashioned to extend from one longeron to the next for extra > > strength.Then I had to patch the fabric in the fuzy again with ceconite > > in order to cover my handy work.I hated cuting those holes in the fabric > > but for some strange reason the previous owners didn't install the seat > > belt.What are ya gonna do?I now have a pretty safe set up.The seat belt > > portion is about 5 inches wide and the shoulder harnes is 2 inches wide, > > either side.They have loops to put the shoulder portion through as you > > do up the belt.I think I paid about 66$ US for the harness.Just from > > memory.I havn't used this set up yet but when I strapped myself in I > > wasn't going anywhere; I can tell you that much.There is no way I could > > hit that panel unless I was stretch Armstrong! The AME helping me sez if > > that set up breaks it don't matter because the whole damn plane will be > > in pieces anyway.Good luck!I hope this helps you out and if you need > > pics I can take a trip to the airstrip and take a few for you if you > > wish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: help with instrument routing
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Hey guys, input needed! I am trying to keep the cockpits very clean and uncluttered. To this end, I am running my wires outside the fuse, under the covering in tubes next to the stringer. My question is the oil pressure line and my water temp line (ford motor). Is there any reason I shouldn't run them out there too? I would run them in a seperate tube just in case of a rupture of the oil line. Or do they need more acessability and should be run inside the cockpits? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: anyone near Lafayette, LA????
Date: Jan 05, 2006
need to know right away if anyone is arounf Lafayette. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: help with instrument routing
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Douwe, I ran all my lines in that space, between the plywood and the fabric, including fuel lines. No problems so far. Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing Hey guys, input needed! I am trying to keep the cockpits very clean and uncluttered. To this end, I am running my wires outside the fuse, under the covering in tubes next to the stringer. My question is the oil pressure line and my water temp line (ford motor). Is there any reason I shouldn't run them out there too? I would run them in a seperate tube just in case of a rupture of the oil line. Or do they need more acessability and should be run inside the cockpits? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: help with instrument routing
Date: Jan 05, 2006
While this isn't a critical application there are some general rules that are good to follow. Always separate electrical wires from oil, hydraulic, fuel or other fluid lines. Wiring should never be within 6 inches of fluid lines, should run above them whenever possible but if closer be positively separated and cross at greater than 60 degrees. Putting them in separate tubes meets these criteria. You should not need to access these lines. A not about the wiring. AC43-13 gives guidance WRT sizing wires but be careful no to use data wires in free air. If these are more than magneto wires, like lighting, you will need to use the correct column in 43.13 WRT wire size. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing Hey guys, input needed! I am trying to keep the cockpits very clean and uncluttered. To this end, I am running my wires outside the fuse, under the covering in tubes next to the stringer. My question is the oil pressure line and my water temp line (ford motor). Is there any reason I shouldn't run them out there too? I would run them in a seperate tube just in case of a rupture of the oil line. Or do they need more acessability and should be run inside the cockpits? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: help with instrument routing
Douwe-- I ran my oil line and ignition switch wires (grounding wires/un-grounding wires !) along the stringer between the fabric and plywood sides. Go for it. I'm not sure what Ford guys do but I know that for the oil pressure lines on a/c engines Tony B. tells that we should (and I did) install a plugged fitting coming out of the engines oil pressure line to the instrument in the cockpit.....with the plugged portion being drilled with a small hole that allows oil and pressure to be read at the gauge, but will keep the flow of oil to a minimum should a leak or break in the oil-to-gauge line occur in flight. Mike C. PS-- Larry Williams has the ultimate in 'clean' Pietenpol panels ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: anyone near Lafayette, LA????
0700a8c0@DICKLAPTOP> Gene--yes, lots of people live there. Sorry I'm not much help. Mike C. >need to know right away if anyone is arounf Lafayette. > >Gene ________________________________________________________________________________ ETAtAhQJP+n2eUVa4fReEFqzLO28mi2/cwIVAJwg/uPWYIFh3zZBPhBYqwk8rZUF
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Big Tundra Tires
Scott: I'm using smooth atv tires on aluminium 8" atv wheels. I got the tires from a place called Flying K Ent. Nampa Id. They made a light airplane called Sky Raider. They don't look overly big. In fact they resemble the Goodyear Airwheels that BHP used. I think the pair costed me around $60. I am not sure Flying K Ent is still in business. As I recall the owner died in a crash. I will probably have to shave the knobs off my next Walmart pair. Leon S. In Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________ ETAsAhQfGuG+CeC37JOw9j4VKnJoK11QjgIUca+zZYLLBrHXuaOsbH+jG36zCgY=
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
Douwe: One way to clean up the cockpit is to mount your engine insts. outside on the side of your radiator. I've seen several done this way and you can still see them very well from the rear cockpit. I don't think you can get a mechanical water temp capillary tube long enough to run from the rear inst. panel to the engine. I wanted a long cap. tube gauge for an old truck once and was told I would have special order it from Stewart Warner,and it was very expensive. Since I converted the truck to 12V, I bought electric gauges and ran wires. I'm using Modle A gauges from Braxtons. They look very antique, but only have a 6' capillary tube. Not long enough to run it the way I wanted, so I'm mounting them on the radiator, Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Big Tundra Tires
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Thanks for the input from you and Hans. This is alot cheaper that the certified tire. S. Robison ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
In a message dated 1/5/2006 2:13:08 PM Central Standard Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes: Hey guys, input needed! I am trying to keep the cockpits very clean and uncluttered. To this end, I am running my wires outside the fuse, under the covering in tubes next to the stringer. My question is the oil pressure line and my water temp line (ford motor). Is there any reason I shouldn't run them out there too? I would run them in a seperate tube just in case of a rupture of the oil line. Or do they need more acessability and should be run inside the cockpits? Thanks, Douwe I wish I would have installed conduit before covering. All my stuff is on the inside. Just keep the wiring seperate, and above, the oil. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
Douwe, I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the Tachometer. It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. Plus it saves space on the rear panel. Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is easily visible. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: airdraft dope
Date: Jan 05, 2006
Hey, Anyone have any ideas for the best price on aircraft dopes? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: seat belts/harness
As promised;here's the pics.There are a couple of pics of the clip they send for attaching to the cable becuase I had to guestemate the pic by holding the camera down and under and aimed back.I tried a number of times till I got it right.One of them is of the lap attachment,the seat back is pushed forward for this and you can see the nifty foot step cover Tom Bennet made for me.The guy is a master with aluminum,a true tin man.The other brackets made to connect between longerones was made by Bob Moorhead.Man there isn't anything that guy don't know.As you can see I'm just standin around while this plane is being built for me.HAHAHA!Not really;these guys bust my balls from time to time and when the spring time comes they'll be at it again till she's finished and busting balls somemore!I sure appreciate the help though.You see I'm a flyer not a builder and these guys understand that and they are teaching me whether I like it or not.You will learn they tell me and I am.Enjoy! Sterling wrote: > > > Harvey: > > I'd like to see some pictures of your set up. > > Thanks, > > Sterling Brooks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:49 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness > > > > > I use a three piece military belt set up I bought from Aircraft Spruce.I > > attached the shoulder portion through a slot I made in the top of the > > seat just above the board you remove to look in the fuzy.I ran the > > single belt portion part of the"Y"through and around a cable that was > > already in place for me(thanks to the previous builders).I used the > > bracket that was sent with the belt to secure it at the proper > > length.Then I drilled two holes on either side of the fuzy through the > > longerones to secure the belt portion along with a plate that was > > fashioned to extend from one longeron to the next for extra > > strength.Then I had to patch the fabric in the fuzy again with ceconite > > in order to cover my handy work.I hated cuting those holes in the fabric > > but for some strange reason the previous owners didn't install the seat > > belt.What are ya gonna do?I now have a pretty safe set up.The seat belt > > portion is about 5 inches wide and the shoulder harnes is 2 inches wide, > > either side.They have loops to put the shoulder portion through as you > > do up the belt.I think I paid about 66$ US for the harness.Just from > > memory.I havn't used this set up yet but when I strapped myself in I > > wasn't going anywhere; I can tell you that much.There is no way I could > > hit that panel unless I was stretch Armstrong! The AME helping me sez if > > that set up breaks it don't matter because the whole damn plane will be > > in pieces anyway.Good luck!I hope this helps you out and if you need > > pics I can take a trip to the airstrip and take a few for you if you > > wish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A65 engine for sale
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Howdy, Pietenpolers- The gentleman that I just bought a replacement oil sump from has an engine and two props for sale. Here are the details if anyone is interested. This gent is reputable and honest. ===================== >Continental A65-8 engine deal comes with engine, carb, mags >(low time slicks since new) A65-8, *no exhaust*...engine has >900 hrs TTSN... 350 hrs SMOH. On the plane running,can fly >plane,...no oil consumption etc....$5000.00 >Also two props...I have two props both**Airworthy** one is a >0 time Sensenich W72CK-42...just got it back last week from Sensenich >Yellow Tag and Certified $1100.00. The other is a J.B.Lewis L11CK-42 ???? >Hard to see that # 42 (maybe a 43...) is on it now running and I am >going to have it certified..$800.00 ....of course the price is less not >Certified..... >lots of pictures available on request >Richard [wandak(at)cpinternet.com] ====================== Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: this is a great group, thanks!
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Hey guys, I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful input on running lines and wiring! I've grown to really appreciate our Piet group since I joined a WW1 airplane group online. I was really shocked by the attitudes, nasty comments, etc being thrown around, by a bunch of "talkers". It really is a blessing to have a bunch of guys who are truly out to help eachother with these wonderful birds. let's keep it up! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A65 engine for sale
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
So Oscar, does this mean you are no longer interested in the extra A65 oil sump I have? Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 engine for sale Howdy, Pietenpolers- The gentleman that I just bought a replacement oil sump from has an engine and two props for sale. Here are the details if anyone is interested. This gent is reputable and honest. ===================== >Continental A65-8 engine deal comes with engine, carb, mags >(low time slicks since new) A65-8, *no exhaust*...engine has >900 hrs TTSN... 350 hrs SMOH. On the plane running,can fly >plane,...no oil consumption etc....$5000.00 >Also two props...I have two props both**Airworthy** one is a >0 time Sensenich W72CK-42...just got it back last week from Sensenich >Yellow Tag and Certified $1100.00. The other is a J.B.Lewis L11CK-42 ???? >Hard to see that # 42 (maybe a 43...) is on it now running and I am >going to have it certified..$800.00 ....of course the price is less not >Certified..... >lots of pictures available on request >Richard [wandak(at)cpinternet.com] ====================== Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: this is a great group, thanks!
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
You're right, Douwe. This IS a good group. I'm thinking about building an RV-10 starting next fall, and have been "lurking" on that list since Oshkosh. It is really interesting to note the difference between the attitude and general helpfulness of this group compared to that one. Of course, I tend to hold scratch-builders in much higher regard than kit builders anyway. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: this is a great group, thanks! Hey guys, I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful input on running lines and wiring! I've grown to really appreciate our Piet group since I joined a WW1 airplane group online. I was really shocked by the attitudes, nasty comments, etc being thrown around, by a bunch of "talkers". It really is a blessing to have a bunch of guys who are truly out to help eachother with these wonderful birds. let's keep it up! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: A65 engine for sale
Where's he located? Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: Jan 6, 2006 8:35 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 engine for sale > > >Howdy, Pietenpolers- > >The gentleman that I just bought a replacement oil sump from has an engine >and two props for sale. Here are the details if anyone is interested. This >gent is reputable and honest. >===================== >>Continental A65-8 engine deal comes with engine, carb, mags >>(low time slicks since new) A65-8, *no exhaust*...engine has >>900 hrs TTSN... 350 hrs SMOH. On the plane running,can fly >>plane,...no oil consumption etc....$5000.00 >>Also two props...I have two props both**Airworthy** one is a >>0 time Sensenich W72CK-42...just got it back last week from Sensenich >>Yellow Tag and Certified $1100.00. The other is a J.B.Lewis L11CK-42 ???? >>Hard to see that # 42 (maybe a 43...) is on it now running and I am >>going to have it certified..$800.00 ....of course the price is less not >>Certified..... >>lots of pictures available on request >>Richard [wandak(at)cpinternet.com] > >====================== > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Subject: SHOULDER HARNESS
From: rhartwig11(at)juno.com
I have the information on the British approved SHOULDER HARNESS for the front cockpit. If you want the info e-mail me directly by clicking on this link rhartwig11(at)juno.com . The files are about 1 meg so it will take a few minutes to download if you have a dial up connection. Dick H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A65 engine for sale
Date: Jan 06, 2006
For those who asked where the seller is located, here's his info: >Richard Karpik >2621 Fraser street >Grand Rapids, MN 55744-3227 Cold country. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Douwe..... I hope this doesn't sound silly, but have you ever seen anyone locate gages (of a little larger diameter) on the back of the engine? ....Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing Hey guys, input needed! I am trying to keep the cockpits very clean and uncluttered. To this end, I am running my wires outside the fuse, under the covering in tubes next to the stringer. My question is the oil pressure line and my water temp line (ford motor). Is there any reason I shouldn't run them out there too? I would run them in a seperate tube just in case of a rupture of the oil line. Or do they need more acessability and should be run inside the cockpits? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Subject: airdraft dope
Douwe, Can only highly recommend the Stits system of "dopes", over the last 40 years I've used nitrate dopes and epoxy systems, etc. But most happy with Stit's PVC system, get a HVLP spray gun with top loading of resin/dope and you won't go wrong. Think Stit's only has one price and bunches of suppliers. I buy my stuff from a large paint industrial/automotive paint supply house in Anchorage. Don't know where you are, but look in yellow pages for any DuPont or ICI automotive paint distributor (the big guys that supply the auto repair paint shops), Stits distributes their product thru some of these guys. And/or pull up Stit's website and look for their distributors in your area, they're cheaper than Spruce and the shipping problem of red label is eliminated. I didn't use Stits fabric, just plain Dacron polyester fabric from Airspruce. Gordon Bowen Homer AK Original Message: ----------------- From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:09:18 -0500 Subject: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope Hey, Anyone have any ideas for the best price on aircraft dopes? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit. On 1/5/06, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: > > Douwe, > > I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the > Tachometer. > It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. > Plus it saves space on the rear panel. > > Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is easily > visible. > > Hans > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
Rick I solved that problem by making a cover that clips under the instrument panel (and out of the slipstream) But yes, it yet has to get cold here in Houston We had a short cold spell early December but recently the weather has been near perfect. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit. On 1/5/06, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: Douwe, I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the Tachometer. It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. Plus it saves space on the rear panel. Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is easily visible. Hans -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: help with instrument routing
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Would velcro and leather work for a cover or would domes be better? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit. On 1/5/06, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: Douwe, I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the Tachometer. It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. Plus it saves space on the rear panel. Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is easily visible. Hans -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: help with instrument routing
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2006
27, 2005) at 01/06/2006 08:04:48 PM I use snap buttons (domes?) in between and eye rings in corners which are secured with a safety pin through a dowel pin Snap buttons or velcro alone might not be enough, if your front cover comes of it might obstruct your vision (right when you need it most - Murphy's law) Cover is made of Vinyl (imitation leather) Hans <harvey.rule@bell .ca> Sent by: To owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matron cc ics.com Subject RE: Pietenpol-List: help with 01/06/2006 11:57 instrument routing AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Would velcro and leather work for a cover or would domes be better? From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit. On 1/5/06, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: Douwe, I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the Tachometer. It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. Plus it saves space on the rear panel. Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is easily visible. Hans -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: help with instrument routing
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Good idea about those eye rings on the corners;thanks.I will use domes. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing I use snap buttons (domes?) in between and eye rings in corners which are secured with a safety pin through a dowel pin Snap buttons or velcro alone might not be enough, if your front cover comes of it might obstruct your vision (right when you need it most - Murphy's law) Cover is made of Vinyl (imitation leather) Hans <harvey.rule@bell .ca> Sent by: To owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matron cc ics.com Subject RE: Pietenpol-List: help with 01/06/2006 11:57 instrument routing AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Would velcro and leather work for a cover or would domes be better? From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit. On 1/5/06, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: Douwe, I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the Tachometer. It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. Plus it saves space on the rear panel. Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is easily visible. Hans -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: airdraft dope
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I heartily concur with Gorden and highly recommend the Stits PolyFiber system. Good products and they won't burn. Once you've seen a demonstration of how fast fabric with butyrate or nitrate dope burns and then watch them hold a torch to fabric treated with their products you will become a believer. Check them out at: http://www.polyfiber.com/ The distributor I used was Aircraft Technical Support, run by Jim and Dondi Miller. Great folks to work with. Their website is: http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gbowen(at)ptialaska.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope Douwe, Can only highly recommend the Stits system of "dopes", over the last 40 years I've used nitrate dopes and epoxy systems, etc. But most happy with Stit's PVC system, get a HVLP spray gun with top loading of resin/dope and you won't go wrong. Think Stit's only has one price and bunches of suppliers. I buy my stuff from a large paint industrial/automotive paint supply house in Anchorage. Don't know where you are, but look in yellow pages for any DuPont or ICI automotive paint distributor (the big guys that supply the auto repair paint shops), Stits distributes their product thru some of these guys. And/or pull up Stit's website and look for their distributors in your area, they're cheaper than Spruce and the shipping problem of red label is eliminated. I didn't use Stits fabric, just plain Dacron polyester fabric from Airspruce. Gordon Bowen Homer AK Original Message: ----------------- From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:09:18 -0500 Subject: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope Hey, Anyone have any ideas for the best price on aircraft dopes? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Subject: Model B Piet Prop
Cajun Commandments! Turn up dem spekas, dis sum gooun musix The Ten Commandments in Cancun... (Keeps it REAL Simple) 1. God is number one... and das' All. 2. Don't pray to nuttin' or nobody... jus' God. 3. Don't cuss nobody... 'specially da Good Lord. 4. When it be Sunday... pass yo'self by God's House. 5. Yo mama an' yo daddy dun did it all... lissen to dem. 6. Killin' duck an' fish, das' OK... people - No! 7. God done give you a wife... sleep wit' jus' her. 8. Don't take nobody's boat... or nuttin' else. 9. Don't go wantin' somebody's stuff. 10. Stop lyin'... yo tongue gonna fall out yo mouf! Pieters, Have a man locally looking for a prop for his Model B Piet. This Piet will not be flown but suspended from the ceiling of a large building. He said the bolt pattern is 3 1/2 four holer. Thought maybe some one might have a non servicable prop they could part with.If so contact me direct and I'll put you through to him. This is not a charity thing, he will pay a fair price. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Subject: Big Error,
Pieters, That Cajun stuff was sent unintentional with the last E mail. Please excuse my computer error and ignorance, Corky the Cajun in Louisiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: airdraft dope
Obvioiusly everybody is concerned about cost, but there may be other concerns which might weigh just as heavily. That said, I like the Polyfiber system, for two reasons. Number one is the fire-retardant aspect, which has been pointed out. Ask yourself how quickly you and your passenger can get away from your flaming airplane at a couple thousand feet agl. Unless you're wearing parachutes, you're doing really good to do it in 2-3 minutes. Also consider all that oxygen whizzing by the burning stuff while you're trying to land. I'll bet the flaming dope demo would be a lot more impressive with a small fan in front of it. Another consideration, not mentioned here, is that conventional dopes will continue to tighten over time. Polyfiber doesn't. My J-3 is covered with dope (don't remember which kind(s) off the top of my head), and you can see where it's getting pretty tight. I expect my next re-cover will be Polyfiber. All that said, Polyfiber makes a kit for about $40 which includes all the stuff to make a small wooden frame and cover it with their system, including rib stitching, finishing tape (straight, not biased, as I recall), drain grommets, and the ring for an inspection port. It also includes a needle, a thermometer to calibrate your iron, and an instruction book, althought their newer kits now come with an abbreviated copy of the full manual instead of the whole thing like they used to (If you're going to do this, spring for the full manual also). You supply a clothes iron, an exacto knife, and a few tin cans to work with the liquids. It takes maybe an afternoon to get through it, if your environment is right (watch the temperature and humidity, this stuff will blush). It's a great kit to experiment and see if you like the system or not. Their dealers either have it or can easily get it. On the side, the Polyfiber STC information is included in the full manual (don't remember about the abbreviated one). I believe the book says the STC is invalid if it's used with somebody else's fabric. I don't know if there's a good reason for this or if it's just to force the standard-type guys to buy more of their stuff; I suspect it's because it hasn't been tested with others' fabrics and they have no business motivation to do so. Their fabrics also come in three weights, but the lightest one isn't approved for certified aircraft. Obviously you Pieters can do whatever you want when building your aircraft as long as you can get it through the inspection process. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> >Sent: Jan 6, 2006 3:46 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > >I heartily concur with Gorden and highly recommend the Stits PolyFiber >system. Good products and they won't burn. Once you've seen a >demonstration of how fast fabric with butyrate or nitrate dope burns and >then watch them hold a torch to fabric treated with their products you >will become a believer. Check them out at: http://www.polyfiber.com/ > The distributor I used was Aircraft Technical Support, run by Jim and >Dondi Miller. Great folks to work with. Their website is: >http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ > > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >gbowen(at)ptialaska.net >Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:45 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > > >Douwe, >Can only highly recommend the Stits system of "dopes", over the last 40 >years I've used nitrate dopes and epoxy systems, etc. But most happy >with >Stit's PVC system, get a HVLP spray gun with top loading of resin/dope >and >you won't go wrong. Think Stit's only has one price and bunches of >suppliers. I buy my stuff from a large paint industrial/automotive >paint >supply house in Anchorage. Don't know where you are, but look in yellow >pages for any DuPont or ICI automotive paint distributor (the big guys >that >supply the auto repair paint shops), Stits distributes their product >thru >some of these guys. And/or pull up Stit's website and look for their >distributors in your area, they're cheaper than Spruce and the shipping >problem of red label is eliminated. I didn't use Stits fabric, just >plain >Dacron polyester fabric from Airspruce. >Gordon Bowen >Homer AK > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net >Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:09:18 -0500 >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > >Hey, > >Anyone have any ideas for the best price on aircraft dopes? > >Douwe > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: airdraft dope
The PolyFiber system is the best, however many people have used exterior latex house paint on their homebuilts successfully at a tenth the price. I thought it was a joke when I first heard about it. Then I talked to a lot of people including a Broadhead EAA chapter member who has built and restored over a dozen planes. They sold me on the idea. I talked to a Sherwin-Williams person about how long their paint lasts. He said their more expensive acrilic latax is guaranteed for 25 years. Said that within the last 5 years they have changed the chemistry of the paint to make it stay more flexible so freezing and thawing won't effect it, which is just what we want on our fabric. I think Bernie would have approved of the idea. Also many people just brush it on, no spray equipment to buy and maintain. On 1/6/06, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> > > I heartily concur with Gorden and highly recommend the Stits PolyFiber > system. Good products and they won't burn. Once you've seen a > demonstration of how fast fabric with butyrate or nitrate dope burns and > then watch them hold a torch to fabric treated with their products you > will become a believer. Check them out at: http://www.polyfiber.com/ > The distributor I used was Aircraft Technical Support, run by Jim and > Dondi Miller. Great folks to work with. Their website is: > http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > gbowen(at)ptialaska.net > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:45 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > > > Douwe, > Can only highly recommend the Stits system of "dopes", over the last 40 > years I've used nitrate dopes and epoxy systems, etc. But most happy > with > Stit's PVC system, get a HVLP spray gun with top loading of resin/dope > and > you won't go wrong. Think Stit's only has one price and bunches of > suppliers. I buy my stuff from a large paint industrial/automotive > paint > supply house in Anchorage. Don't know where you are, but look in yellow > pages for any DuPont or ICI automotive paint distributor (the big guys > that > supply the auto repair paint shops), Stits distributes their product > thru > some of these guys. And/or pull up Stit's website and look for their > distributors in your area, they're cheaper than Spruce and the shipping > problem of red label is eliminated. I didn't use Stits fabric, just > plain > Dacron polyester fabric from Airspruce. > Gordon Bowen > Homer AK > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:09:18 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > > Hey, > > Anyone have any ideas for the best price on aircraft dopes? > > Douwe > > > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bed(at)mindspring.com" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2006
Subject: Re: airdraft dope
Rick, I noticed you live in Colorado. I am skiing at Keystone and thought about trying to visit your Piet project tomorrow. Any ideas? It looks like you are just south of Denver. I am one of 6 Big Piet builders in Georgia. Barry Davis Original Message: ----------------- From: Rick Holland at7000ft(at)gmail.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:50:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope The PolyFiber system is the best, however many people have used exterior latex house paint on their homebuilts successfully at a tenth the price. I thought it was a joke when I first heard about it. Then I talked to a lot of people including a Broadhead EAA chapter member who has built and restored over a dozen planes. They sold me on the idea. I talked to a Sherwin-Williams person about how long their paint lasts. He said their more expensive acrilic latax is guaranteed for 25 years. Said that within the last 5 years they have changed the chemistry of the paint to make it stay more flexible so freezing and thawing won't effect it, which is just what we want on our fabric. I think Bernie would have approved of the idea. Also many people just brush it on, no spray equipment to buy and maintain. On 1/6/06, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> > > I heartily concur with Gorden and highly recommend the Stits PolyFiber > system. Good products and they won't burn. Once you've seen a > demonstration of how fast fabric with butyrate or nitrate dope burns and > then watch them hold a torch to fabric treated with their products you > will become a believer. Check them out at: http://www.polyfiber.com/ > The distributor I used was Aircraft Technical Support, run by Jim and > Dondi Miller. Great folks to work with. Their website is: > http://www.aircrafttechsupport.com/ > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > gbowen(at)ptialaska.net > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:45 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > > > Douwe, > Can only highly recommend the Stits system of "dopes", over the last 40 > years I've used nitrate dopes and epoxy systems, etc. But most happy > with > Stit's PVC system, get a HVLP spray gun with top loading of resin/dope > and > you won't go wrong. Think Stit's only has one price and bunches of > suppliers. I buy my stuff from a large paint industrial/automotive > paint > supply house in Anchorage. Don't know where you are, but look in yellow > pages for any DuPont or ICI automotive paint distributor (the big guys > that > supply the auto repair paint shops), Stits distributes their product > thru > some of these guys. And/or pull up Stit's website and look for their > distributors in your area, they're cheaper than Spruce and the shipping > problem of red label is eliminated. I didn't use Stits fabric, just > plain > Dacron polyester fabric from Airspruce. > Gordon Bowen > Homer AK > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Douwe Blumberg douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:09:18 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: airdraft dope > > > Hey, > > Anyone have any ideas for the best price on aircraft dopes? > > Douwe > > ===================================== ===================================== ===================================== > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2006
From: Jim Cooper <blugoos1(at)direcway.com>
Subject: Lafayette, LA
generambo(at)msn.com Gene: I live very close to Lafayette, LA, and go there almost every day to check mail & have coffee with friends. Jim Cooper 8040 LA Hwy 82 Youngsville, LA 70592 337-937-6116 Let me know what I can do to help. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: help with instrument routing
What I ment was ,I will use domes and eye rings. > >Good idea about those eye rings on the corners;thanks.I will use domes. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans >Vander Voort >Sent: January 6, 2006 2:05 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing > > > >I use snap buttons (domes?) in between and eye rings in corners which >are >secured with a safety pin through a dowel pin > >Snap buttons or velcro alone might not be enough, if your front cover >comes >of it might obstruct your vision (right when you need it most - Murphy's >law) > >Cover is made of Vinyl (imitation leather) > > >Hans > > > > > <harvey.rule@bell > > .ca> > > Sent by: >To > owner-pietenpol-l > > ist-server@matron >cc > ics.com > > >Subject > RE: Pietenpol-List: help with > > 01/06/2006 11:57 instrument routing > > AM > > > > > > Please respond to > > pietenpol-list@ma > > tronics.com > > > > > > >Would velcro and leather work for a cover or would domes be better? > > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick >Holland >Sent: January 6, 2006 12:15 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: help with instrument routing > >The only negative I can think of for that solution would be for us cold >weather fliers where we may want to cover the front cockpit. >On 1/5/06, HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: >Douwe, > >I have the engine instrumentation in the front cockpit except for the >Tachometer. >It keep the connecting wiring & tubing short. >Plus it saves space on the rear panel. > >Most of the time you will fly alone and the front cockpit panel is >easily >visible. > >Hans > > >-- >Rick Holland > >"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: Sitka spruce pricing?
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Question gentleman.What would one expect to pay for sitka spruce per board foot in the rough kiln dried.I am a cabinet maker so I have all the equipment needed to dimention the rough lumber into the finished sizes as called for in the plans.There is a sawmill in Ontario Canada that has 2" X 6" X up to 16' long boards that were kiln dried for $12.50 per board foot Canadian,which is about $10.40 US. dollars .I would be able to pick this up so shipping costs are not an issue. Thanks in advance for your help. Regards Mike Turrell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Sitka spruce pricing?
Check with Edensaw in Washington. I paid $8.50 for 2x6 16ft vertical grain, kiln dried. Bought 6. Bundled and shipped to Louisiana about $140. Beautiful lumber. Sitka Spruce. I also bought for 41CC Douglas Fit from same company at $4.50. If I built another, which I won't, I think I'd go back to DF if I could get the same quality as before. Hopes this helps. Corky in Louisiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: seat belts/harness.
Actually the human body can withstand a great deal for very short durations. Race car impact have been documented to over 100 G's without injury to a driver, with the driver properly restrained. Now airplanes have the downward load factor to contend with which is a huge difference, but it is amazing just how tough the body is at times and how fragile it can be at other. Airplanes actually are designed with quite a bit of consideration for accidents and accident prevention. Strength, where you run wires and fuel lines what you cover your airplane with, how you cover your seat, and a host of any of a number of decisions you make during building will effect just how well an airplane holds up in an accident. From the looks of it for the technology of his day, the Piet did quite well. That does not mean that if there is an improvement out there we shouldn't take advantage of it. I hope we see more chutes out there but that is not the end all be all. The one statement you made I couldn't agree with more is to fly the airplane all the way to the ground if its still flyable and you are still in it. A controlled aircraft gives the occupants a great chance of survival, but an out of control one makes the chances very slim. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: seat belts/harness. Hi Sterling, Lets face it.... Airplanes are NOT designed to crash,,, The important thing is to become proficient while flying and learn how your plane reacts in any emergency.. I say this because the human body only resists a limited amount of sudden impact G's harness or not you might not survive a severe impact, but at list safety harnessed to your seat :-). Planes out of control are capable to add lots of speed VERY FAST before impact, they are FALLING down... So the more important thing is to fly it down as under control as much as our experience will allow us. Newbies pilots think that BRS and Safety Harness will save their life, Bahhh only learning and practicing emergency procedures will. Fly it always untill is taxing to the platform ;-) Saludos Gary Gower. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: Re:Sitka spruce availability
Date: Jan 07, 2006
Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade Sitka any longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to quality.I was told that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would be considerably more than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so I will keep looking for the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western Canada that I have to look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been told ;-) Regards,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Flying NX770CG
Hi, Last night I got my video from Chuck and I'm really glad I have it. For a new builder who hasn't even actually seen the plane I'm building other than static photos this was incredibly inspiring. This will get lots of play time in my house if my project should happen to stall. A real kick in the pants to go out to the shop and "Gitt'r Done" so I can fly my own. Thanks for all the hard work Chuck! You obviously put your heart into this. Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Sitka spruce availability
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Mike I purchased some rough cut 1" spruce at McCormick Lumber in Madison last year. It Planed to 3/4". I think it was $4.50 a board foot. It had to pick through a lot to get decent stuff. It was dirty and played hell with my planer blades, Their 1 1/2 stock was pretty poor. Their web is http://www.mccormicklumber.com/index.htm. When talking with Andy, I don't believe he will ever order any more stock. Jack Textor Vice President Palmer Group 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Michael Turrell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade Sitka any longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to quality.I was told that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would be considerably more than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so I will keep looking for the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western Canada that I have to look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been told ;-) Regards,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Steve (IE B-17 video)
Steve, Few days ago while visiting my Mom in the nursing home, met a mother and "son" who was visiting a resident. It turns out that this "son" who I thought was in his 60's, was her husband in his 80's. Great guy. Said that in 1941 he was a crew member on a B-17. Thought of your video, and today made a CD of it and delivered it to him at the home visiting his wife. He was as happy as a clam. Said he'd watch it on his son-in-laws computer. Promised I'd take him flying in the Piet in the spring. Thanks for your efforts. You did good! Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re:Sitka spruce availability
Date: Jan 07, 2006
I've had very good luck with McCormack. Their people hve been very patient with me picking thru their stock and I've found excellent quality in the past. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability Mike I purchased some rough cut 1" spruce at McCormick Lumber in Madison last year. It Planed to 3/4". I think it was $4.50 a board foot. It had to pick through a lot to get decent stuff. It was dirty and played hell with my planer blades, Their 1 1/2 stock was pretty poor. Their web is http://www.mccormicklumber.com/index.htm. When talking with Andy, I don't believe he will ever order any more stock. Jack Textor Vice President Palmer Group 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Michael Turrell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade Sitka any longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to quality.I was told that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would be considerably more than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so I will keep looking for the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western Canada that I have to look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been told ;-) Regards,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: dmott9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Flying NX770CG
Hi, I too have received my DVD from Chuch and last night watched it. Brings back memories of when I was learning to fly in a C-150. I could see and feel the movement of the airplane and the wind. It is a great video. I love the various angles. You must have shot an awful lot more hours of video that what is on the DVD. I would have liked to have seen some more comparisons of the Model A vs the A-65 as well as seeing the Model A up close running etc. Loved the different sections. Another THANKS CHUCK from me ! (Check got mailed 1-6-06) This was a birthday present from me to me ! Can't wait for the construction video ! Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SHOULDER HARNESS
Hi Dick, I'd love to have the info about the british shoulder harness info for the front cockpit - that's where my daughter will be riding until she's old enough to fly it herself. Please send the files to this address: gardner.698(at)osu.edu That's my work e-mail & it's hi speed, my home one is cranky old dial-up. Thanks! Kip Gardner > >I have the information on the British approved SHOULDER HARNESS for the >front cockpit. If you want the info e-mail me directly by clicking on >this link rhartwig11(at)juno.com . The files are about 1 meg so it will >take a few minutes to download if you have a dial up connection. >Dick H > > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sitka Availability
About three years ago, I bought a 20' length of quarter sewn sitka for $90 from the following lumber yard in Stormville, New York: Condon M L CO Inc 55 South Greenhaven Road Stormville, NY 12582 845-221-8966 Maybe this will help people in that area... john --------------------------------- Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Jan 08, 2006
Subject: Re:Sitka spruce availability
For any of you SE Pieter's I still have about 600 bf of Kachemak Bay AK, clear dried Sika Spruce down at my hanger in Palatka FL. 3/4" and 1 1/2" thick, 6" and 8" wide, all about 8' 2" long. It's all rough cut, direct from the sawmiller is just down the lane from my cabin in AK. We selected this wood based on grain direction and "ring count" from the core of the trees. Enough there to build a couple Piete's. I have about $2.00/bf in this material and will sell if for same price. Fills the bed of a pick-up truck up to about 10" deep. Offered to give some away last yr to some kid that wanted to get into woodworking and building wood planes, but didn't show up. If interested, let me know, or my plane building buddy in FL at 386-325-3208 Floyd Jackson. I'm in UT for the winter due to a family illness. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: Dick Navratil horzpool(at)goldengate.net Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:10:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability I've had very good luck with McCormack. Their people hve been very patient with me picking thru their stock and I've found excellent quality in the past. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability Mike I purchased some rough cut 1" spruce at McCormick Lumber in Madison last year. It Planed to 3/4". I think it was $4.50 a board foot. It had to pick through a lot to get decent stuff. It was dirty and played hell with my planer blades, Their 1 1/2 stock was pretty poor. Their web is http://www.mccormicklumber.com/index.htm. When talking with Andy, I don't believe he will ever order any more stock. Jack Textor Vice President Palmer Group 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Michael Turrell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability Thanks Corky,I called them and was told they don't carry aircraft grade Sitka any longer and any sitka ordered would be at my own risk as to quality.I was told that if they did special order aircraft grade ,it would be considerably more than the current $8.78/bd.ft. for the regular stuff so I will keep looking for the best deal I can find,There is a place in Western Canada that I have to look up also.The hunt is half the fun,or so I've been told ;-) Regards,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jan 08, 2006
Subject: Sitka Spruce
About a year ago I bought Sitka from McCormack and I also paid about $4.50 a foot, maybe a dime or two more -- excellent lumber and although I was a novice, it was easy to pick out the good knot-free, straight grained, correct rings-per-inch stuff. I think a person would have to be pretty sloppy to not recognize inferior wood. Anyway, I hope that they continue to carry the Sitka as I will need to make another trip to get stock for the wing spars. They also carry West System epoxy, although I've found that here in La Crosse at Powerhouse Marine. I'm only a two-hour drive from Madison and it's a nice drive on a nice day -- I like to take old Highway 14 instead of I-90 -- it's kind of the equivalent of flying a Piet versus some 200 mph skyrocket. The older I get the slower I like to go in order to enjoy the scenery...and much less stressful. By the way, somebody mentioned shoulder harness pics the other day -- how do I access those pics? Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 08, 2006
Today while building my rib jig, I was plotting points according to Wing Plan (3/3/34) in the "Measurements of Wing Rib Profile" section (top). The tip of the LE is 1 1/2" up from the baseline. The second vertical is back 1/2" from the tip of the LE but no measurement is given from the baseline. Do you just eyeball it and do a manual curve fit based on the other points? Doesn't make sense that you would guess at it if other dimesions are given to the nearest 1/64" (the tip of my pencil is wider than that) It's a point in an area with a lot of bend so I don't like guessing. Also one drawing shows the total rib length of 60" but if you add up all the individual measurements for the verticals it comes out to 60 1/8". Am I quibbling? I read through the archives and didn't see anything on this but found another article regarding the 3/3/34 Plan profile being different than the full sized rib profile. Which do you go with? Thanks in advance, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Tool trivia
Date: Jan 08, 2006
I normally don't forward stuff like this to lists, but I suspect that this one will strike a chord with many, many folks here... -Mike -------------------------------- Trivia on Tools DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flings your beer across the room, splattering it against that freshly painted part you were drying. WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprint whorls and hard-earned guitar calluses in about the time it takes you to say, "Ouch...." ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their holes until you die of old age. PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future becomes. VISE-GRIPS: Used to round off bolt heads. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand. OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the wheel hub you want the bearing race out of. WHITWORTH SOCKETS: Once used for working on older British cars and motorcycles, they are now used mainly for impersonating that 9/16 or 1/2 socket you've been s searching for the last 15 minutes. HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after you have installed your new disk brake pads, trapping the jack handle firmly under the bumper. EIGHT-FOOT LONG DOUGLAS FIR 2X4: Used for levering an automobile upward off a hydraulic jack handle. TWEEZERS: A tool for removing wood splinters. PHONE: Tool for calling your neighbors to see if he has another hydraulic floor jack. SNAP-ON GASKET SCRAPER: Theoretically useful as a sandwich tool for spreading mayonnaise; used mainly for getting dog **** off your boot. E-Z OUT BOLT AND STUD EXTRACTOR: A tool ten times harder than any known drill bit that snaps off in bolt holes you couldn't use anyway. TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the tensile strength on everything you forgot to disconnect. CRAFTSMAN 1/2 x 16-INCH SCREWDRIVER: A large prybar that inexplicably has an accurately machined screwdriver tip on the end opposite the handle. AVIATION METAL SNIPS: See hacksaw. TROUBLE LIGHT: The home mechanic's own tanning booth. Sometimes called a drop light, it is a good source of vitamin D, "the sunshine vitamin," which is not otherwise found under cars at night. Health benefits aside, it's main purpose is to consume 40-watt light bulbs at about the same rate that 105-mm howitzer shells might be used during, say, the first few hours of the Battle of the Bulge. More often dark than light, its name is somewhat misleading. PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the lids of old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splash oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips screw heads. AIR COMPRESSOR: A machine that takes energy produced in a coal-burning power plant 200 miles away and transforms it into compressed air that travels by hose to a Chicago Pneumatic impact wrench that grips rusty bolts last overtightened 58 years ago by someone at ERCO, and neatly rounds off their heads. PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 part. HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to cut hoses too short. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts not far from the object we are trying to hit. MECHANIC'S KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on contents such as seats, vinyl records, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts. DAMMIT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage while yelling "DAMMIT" at the top of your lungs. It is also the next tool that you will need. EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight, which somehow eases those pains and indignities following our every deficiency in foresight Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2006
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Steve (IE B-17 video)
Thanks for the information Walt, I'm really glad to hear it! Both of my grandfathers fought in WWII, and I love to hear that one of their kind enjoyed it. That is why I volunteered on the B-17 crew, to help show them that some people remember their sacrifice (not to mention it is a blast to work on a B-17!). I worked on it for two years before I got my first flight! Thanks again, Steve Quoting walt evans : > Steve, > Few days ago while visiting my Mom in the nursing home, met a mother > and "son" who was visiting a resident. It turns out that this "son" > who I thought was in his 60's, was her husband in his 80's. Great > guy. Said that in 1941 he was a crew member on a B-17. Thought of > your video, and today made a CD of it and delivered it to him at the > home visiting his wife. He was as happy as a clam. Said he'd watch > it on his son-in-laws computer. Promised I'd take him flying in the > Piet in the spring. > Thanks for your efforts. You did good! > > Ain't Life Grand! > > walt evans > NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bernadette" <docfont(at)voyager.net>
Subject: Re: Sitka spruce availability
Date: Jan 09, 2006
> From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Sitka spruce availability > > > For any of you SE Pieter's I still have about 600 bf of Kachemak Bay AK, > clear dried Sika Spruce down at my hanger in Palatka FL. . Offered to give some away last yr to some kid > that wanted to get into woodworking and building wood planes, but didn't > show up. > Gordon Bowen > Yep, not sure if my son is the only kid into woodworking but Gordon is a really nice guy who offered my 12 year old son and I some of the spruce if we would stop by and pick it up. Unfortunately that was about the time the price of gas was headed to over $3 a gallon and a trip from Ohio to Florida just wasn't in the budget. Meanwhile we did buy the "baragin spruce box" from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. I will be ripping and planing those pieces into capstrips at the harp shop where I work part time (www.argentfox.com) to get started on wing ribs for our project as soon as it gets warm enough this spring to hang out in an unheated detached garage. Thanks for all the tips, information and building information I have gotten from this list. I hope the day finds you well DocFont ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Plan question
Date: Jan 09, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Hi all, Getting ready to order some additional wood for my fuselage. The 32 Manual shows fuselage top and bottom braces at 1"x3/4". The improved plans indicate 1"x =BD" unless otherwise indicated. I assume I go with the =BD", correct? Thanks all! Jack Textor www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 09, 2006
Hi Glen..Welcome to Pietland..The wing chord is 60". If you try to do stuff like expecting the individual dimensions to add up to the total length you will just make yourself crazy. I don't remember the second verticle measurement being missing, I can check my plan set for you when I get home tonite or maybe someone else can get it for you sooner if it is there. If you plot the dimensions out you will find that there is a low spot ( about 1/8") near the aft third of the upper cap strip. I plotted the points on a piece of plywood and then drove a small nail partially into the wood at each plotted point. Then I bent a 1/8" hardwood strip over the nails and ran a pencil line along it to connect and average the points. There are lots of Piets out there flying just fine with minutely different wing rib profiles. Save your rib jig incase you ever need to replace a rib. I didn't use a full size rib profile but I hear they are undependable because of the expansion and contraction of the paper due to humidity changes. hope this helps...Ed G. >From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements >Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 20:12:17 -0500 > >Today while building my rib jig, I was plotting points according to Wing >Plan (3/3/34) in the "Measurements of Wing Rib Profile" section (top). The >tip of the LE is 1 1/2" up from the baseline. The second vertical is back >1/2" from the tip of the LE but no measurement is given from the baseline. >Do you just eyeball it and do a manual curve fit based on the other points? > Doesn't make sense that you would guess at it if other dimesions are >given to the nearest 1/64" (the tip of my pencil is wider than that) It's >a point in an area with a lot of bend so I don't like guessing. Also one >drawing shows the total rib length of 60" but if you add up all the >individual measurements for the verticals it comes out to 60 1/8". Am I >quibbling? > >I read through the archives and didn't see anything on this but found >another article regarding the 3/3/34 Plan profile being different than the >full sized rib profile. Which do you go with? > >Thanks in advance, >Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Jan 09, 2006
Subject: Re: Plan question
I did the 1/2"... Question is, in what orientation? I wouldn't think it would matter. If it's the braces I think you're referring to, I installed mine with the 1/2" up and down and the 1" left and right. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2006
From: <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Thanks a lot Ed, ---- "Ed G." wrote: > I don't remember the second verticle > measurement being missing, ... The distance between the 2 crossings of the 2nd vertical is given but not the distance from the baseline to the bottom of the profile. Thanks, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 09, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Glenn, This missing dimension caused me to pause as well. I plugged all the given co-ordinates into a CAD program and joined them up and approximated the curve at the leading edge. Based on this CAD drawing I could measure a theoretical dimension for that point. I also compared against the full-size rib profile, which I found to be not very precise overall (at the time I measured, the overall length was about 1/4" short). But the general shape at the front is pretty close, since the length was only out by less than half a percent (1/4 divided by 60 .004, or .4%). What I ended up using was 1/2" from the baseline. That seemed to give a pretty good smooth curve. In any case, that dimension falls in the leading edge, not on the capstrip area, so it doesn't impact directly on the rib jig profile. I'm not sure why there are dimensions given in 64ths of an inch. Most Pietenpols operate at sub-sonic speeds, I believe. : ) After all, these things are built out of wood. The most important aspect of the rib profile is that they are all the same, down the length of the wing. I don't think that it would make a huge difference in performance if you were out by 1/32" here or there. As for the dimensions not adding up, I think it's so that the wing will match the fuselage. : ) (if you add those up on the side view, as I remember they don't match the dimensions given for the top view - don't have the drawings in front of me, just going from memory - hope I remembered that right). I think I took the extra 1/8" out of the last section, to end up with 60" overall. (the actual size and profile of your leading and trailing edges will determine your final overall chord of your wing, and if it ends up 1/8" big or small, it will be inconsequential) I ended up using the dimensioned drawing (Wing Plan (3/3/34)) to create my rib profile for my jig (lofted directly onto a piece of MDF), and I used the full size template to determine approximate locations for the diagonals, since they don't have any dimensions anywhere. From the discussions I have read, you'd be fine if you built using the full size template, even if it was 1/4" big or small - as long as all the ribs were consistant. That's why you'll want to hang onto your rib jig when you're finished, in case you ever need to make a replacement or two. Only your jig will give you ribs that EXACTLY fit your wing. Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Profile Measurements Today while building my rib jig, I was plotting points according to Wing Plan (3/3/34) in the "Measurements of Wing Rib Profile" section (top). The tip of the LE is 1 1/2" up from the baseline. The second vertical is back 1/2" from the tip of the LE but no measurement is given from the baseline. Do you just eyeball it and do a manual curve fit based on the other points? Doesn't make sense that you would guess at it if other dimesions are given to the nearest 1/64" (the tip of my pencil is wider than that) It's a point in an area with a lot of bend so I don't like guessing. Also one drawing shows the total rib length of 60" but if you add up all the individual measurements for the verticals it comes out to 60 1/8". Am I quibbling? I read through the archives and didn't see anything on this but found another article regarding the 3/3/34 Plan profile being different than the full sized rib profile. Which do you go with? Thanks in advance, Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________ ETAuAhUAgWemQe5qEuBbe6CUoq+pyJji9HsCFQCMghIz40s9MtuhH9XJBZvy6gxEQA==
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 09, 2006
Subject: Smart tool
Hi Dave. The Smart Tool level has really gone up. I gave around 100 bucks for mine from one of the aircraft tool venders at Oshkosh 3 years ago. It reads to the 10th of a degree and its fun to read the level showing 0.00 when an item is level. You can't get that close with a bubble level. Rocket science stuff, but not really needed to build a Pietenpol. If you have money to burn go ahead and get one. Leon S. in Kansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Big Error,
Date: Jan 09, 2006
Don't apologize for "that Cajun Stuff". That was GREAT. Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ Pieters, That Cajun stuff was sent unintentional with the last E mail. Please excuse my computer error and ignorance, Corky the Cajun in Louisiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 09, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: All New BBS Interface For Matronics List Forums!
Dear Listers, I'm very proud to announce a completely new BBS interface is now available for all of the Email Lists at Matronics! This is a full-featured system that allows for viewing, posting, attachments, polls - the works. But the best part is that it is *completely* integrated with all of the existing email tools currently available at Matronics! What this means at the most basic level is that, if you post a message to List from Email in the traditional way, it will show up on the BBS system *and* get distributed to everyone currently subscribed to the Email List. By the same token, if you are on the BBS and post a message to a given List-Forum, the message will not only show up on the BBS, but also be distributed to everyone on the Email List!! It is really a very nice implementation and I am very pleased with its operation. All of the tools you have come to know and love such as the List Search Engine and List Browse and Download will still be available and contain all of the latest posts. Think of the new BBS interface as just another method of accessing the all of the Lists. You can use the BBS to view all of the latest posts without having to do anything except use your browser to surf over to the site. You can view and look at all of the various List's posts. If you want to post a new message or reply to an existing message from the BBS, you will have to Register on the BBS. This is a *very* simple process and will only take a couple of minutes. There is a small icon in the upper righthand side of the main BBS page labeled "Register" to get you started. I strongly recommend that you use the exact *same* email address you are subscribed to the Email Lists with when registering on the BBS. Also, while not an absolute requirement, I would really appreciate it if people would use their full name when choosing their Username on the BBS (for example "Matt Dralle"). This just makes it easier for everyone to know who's posting. Also, I have enabled the ability to upload a small user picture with your profile called an "avatar". Please use a *real* picture of yourself *with* your cloths on! Thank you! Maximum size of the bitmap is 120x120. You can either be subscribed to the BBS, or any number of Email Lists, or both. Registering on the BBS will allow you to email directly to all of the various Lists. However, to receive direct List Email, you will need to be *subscribed* to the various Lists as you have in the past. No changes here in operation. I have added numerous links on the BBS pointing to the Email List subscription page. I've had the BBS connected to the Lists for about a week now, so its already loaded up with a fair number of messages. You can post photos and other documents directly to the BBS and links to them will appear in the List Email distributions. Also, when any messages posted to the BBS are viewed in the List Email distribution, there will be a URL link at the bottom of the message pointing back to the BBS. And here's what you've been waiting for -- the main URL for the new Matronics Email List BBS is: http://forums.matronics.com Please surf on over, Register, and have a great time! I think this will be the dawn of a whole new era for the Lists at Matronics! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: update on Flycorvair.com
Date: Jan 10, 2006
William has posted an update on his website, at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . Those who have waited for parts that you've ordered from him will be happy to read that he now has someone full-time on the phone in his shop and is re-focusing 2006 more on production of parts than on promotional events. There is also mention of his newest video, on engine disassembly. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 10, 2006
Thanks Ed, Bill and Lou for giving me ideas on approaching this one. Tonight I'll forge on with the jig. Thanks! Glenn Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2597#2597 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 10, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
While looking over the plans last night, I realized that the three-piece wing plans (drawn by Vi Kapler) indicate that the butt ribs at the center section would actually have the top and bottom capstrips made of 3/16" x 1/2" rather than the 1/4" x 1/2" used everywhere else. This would be to accommodate the 2" wide strip of 1/16" plywood used to prevent the sideways pulling on the rib when it gets covered. Is this what everyone building the 3-piece wing has done, or did you just add the 1/16" strips onto the 1/4" capstrips, and forget about the thickness difference? If you did use the 3/16" capstrips, how did you accommodate this change in your rib jig? I can visualize a way to do it (using shims), but I've already made my ribs (using only 1/4" capstrips) and wonder if I really need to make some "special" ribs. Then again, it's only four more ribs. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
<3CE9F2B30CD39D448029A4B6AF31A22407ED33(at)CRELSERVER002.crelvine.local> I just put the ply over the standard rib of 1/4" thk. You don't see it at all. Of the few things that I look over and wish I'd done different,,,that's not one of them. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements > > > > While looking over the plans last night, I realized that the three-piece > wing plans (drawn by Vi Kapler) indicate that the butt ribs at the > center section would actually have the top and bottom capstrips made of > 3/16" x 1/2" rather than the 1/4" x 1/2" used everywhere else. This > would be to accommodate the 2" wide strip of 1/16" plywood used to > prevent the sideways pulling on the rib when it gets covered. > Is this what everyone building the 3-piece wing has done, or did you > just add the 1/16" strips onto the 1/4" capstrips, and forget about the > thickness difference? > If you did use the 3/16" capstrips, how did you accommodate this change > in your rib jig? I can visualize a way to do it (using shims), but I've > already made my ribs (using only 1/4" capstrips) and wonder if I really > need to make some "special" ribs. Then again, it's only four more ribs. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 10, 2006
Bill, I've seen your rib jig on mykitplanes.com. If you wanted to stay true to the plan you could just make a couple of extra ribs out of 3/16" capstrip and shim your jig with 1/16" pieces. Wouldn't that work? You could visually check trueness to the profile since it's drawn onto the jig. I'm glad you mentioned it, because I probably wouldn't have noticed it until I get to where you are. Thanks, Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements > > > While looking over the plans last night, I realized that the three-piece > wing plans (drawn by Vi Kapler) indicate that the butt ribs at the > center section would actually have the top and bottom capstrips made of > 3/16" x 1/2" rather than the 1/4" x 1/2" used everywhere else. This > would be to accommodate the 2" wide strip of 1/16" plywood used to > prevent the sideways pulling on the rib when it gets covered. > Is this what everyone building the 3-piece wing has done, or did you > just add the 1/16" strips onto the 1/4" capstrips, and forget about the > thickness difference? > If you did use the 3/16" capstrips, how did you accommodate this change > in your rib jig? I can visualize a way to do it (using shims), but I've > already made my ribs (using only 1/4" capstrips) and wonder if I really > need to make some "special" ribs. Then again, it's only four more ribs. > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 10, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Walt can you share some of the things you would have done different? Thanks, Jack Textor Des Moines www.textors.com .net> I just put the ply over the standard rib of 1/4" thk. You don't see it at all. Of the few things that I look over and wish I'd done different,,,that's not one of them. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 10, 2006
Bill...I bought my Piet as a project. The original builder used 1/4" cap strips and I was unwilling to have a bulge at the wingroot. I stiffened the end ribs by gluing 2 pieces of spruce, about 1"X 5/16 edgeways to the ribs, top and bottom. The spruce reinforcements are cut a little longer than the distance between the spars, so that they bow slightly, although no attempt was made to conform them to the airfoil. The spruce strips were epoxied to each of the gussets that they touched along the length of the rib. This appears quite stiff, doesn't add much if any weight and makes the fabric nice and smooth....Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements > > > > While looking over the plans last night, I realized that the three-piece > wing plans (drawn by Vi Kapler) indicate that the butt ribs at the > center section would actually have the top and bottom capstrips made of > 3/16" x 1/2" rather than the 1/4" x 1/2" used everywhere else. This > would be to accommodate the 2" wide strip of 1/16" plywood used to > prevent the sideways pulling on the rib when it gets covered. > Is this what everyone building the 3-piece wing has done, or did you > just add the 1/16" strips onto the 1/4" capstrips, and forget about the > thickness difference? > If you did use the 3/16" capstrips, how did you accommodate this change > in your rib jig? I can visualize a way to do it (using shims), but I've > already made my ribs (using only 1/4" capstrips) and wonder if I really > need to make some "special" ribs. Then again, it's only four more ribs. > > Bill > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
Date: Jan 11, 2006
I didn't want to mess with shimming the jig and takeing a chance on something getting misaligned so I made standard thickness ribs with slightly wider capstrip and cut a recess in the capstrips for the plywood after the ribs were completed using my router table. It was a little extra work but it came out nice and its a little stronger rib for the fabric to pull against. Walt's way sounds alot easier and faster but you asked how different people have done it so there ya go...Ed G. >From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:09:28 -0600 > > > >Walt can you share some of the things you would have done different? >Thanks, >Jack Textor >Des Moines >www.textors.com > >.net> > >I just put the ply over the standard rib of 1/4" thk. >You don't see it at all. >Of the few things that I look over and wish I'd done different,,,that's >not >one of them. >walt evans >NX140DL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Irwin Fust <ifust(at)digitalpath.net>
Subject: Seat belts and harnesses
Date: Jan 11, 2006
Pietenpol folks, Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still in the building process. Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones to get and where to get them. Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols! Irwin ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: The nose knows
OK, here's a question that's sure to stir the pot. And it's not even political! We just replaced our A65 with a C75. Everything was a straight fit except the C75 has a tapered shaft and ends up holding the prop about 1/2 inch closer to the cowling than the A65 did. Just close enough to cause problems. So, we cut the snout off the cowling. It's functional but butt-ugly. Actually, butt-ugly insults butts all over the world! Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a URL that links to a photo. We eventually have to make a new an purtier cowl 'cause we're having trouble flying with paper sacks over our heads! Thanks, Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: nosebowl/cowl photo searches
Jeff-- nothing worse that an ugly Piet cowling....and they come up from time to time. Whenever I'm looking for an image of just about anything---I seem to have the best results with Google.com and instead of "web" click on "images" and you'll be amazed. You can type Pietenpol in one time, GN-1 another...you name it, it will search the photos posted out there ALL over the earth. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Profile Measurements
I made my 4 butt ribs that same as the rest, but I also covered the sides with 1/16" plywood and cut openings in that for the aleron cables. I had no probems with the covering pulling those ribs. Lou N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: Seat belts and harnesses
I used the military type purchased from Aircraft Spruce.Three way system. Irwin Fust wrote: > > > Pietenpol folks, > Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and > harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have > gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has > responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still > in the building process. > Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of > you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones > to get and where to get them. > Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols! > Irwin > ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a > monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and > then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I > thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Seat belts and harnesses
I was actually thinking when I got to that point of needing a seat belt of using a Simpson Racing harness. The only one Id think about leaving off might be the submarine belt. Though a Piet is slow a body in motion is still a body in motion and the angle at touchdown might actually help one slip out through the lap belt. ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses > > I used the military type purchased from Aircraft Spruce.Three way > system. > > Irwin Fust wrote: >> >> >> Pietenpol folks, >> Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and >> harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have >> gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has >> responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still >> in the building process. >> Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of >> you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones >> to get and where to get them. >> Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols! >> Irwin >> ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a >> monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and >> then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I >> thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol! >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: Harvey Rule <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Seat belts and harnesses
The lap belt part of the system is 5 to 6 inchs wide and the shoulder straps are 2 inchs.If you slip out of that then your one slippery fellow!Besides I usually fly with both feet on the rudder peddles and that in itself will assist in keeping me in and if that doesn't then hitting the control post with those delecate parts of your body will defiinately make you move back! > > > I was actually thinking when I got to that point of needing a seat > belt of using a Simpson Racing harness. The only one Id think about > leaving off might be the submarine belt. Though a Piet is slow a body > in motion is still a body in motion and the angle at touchdown might > actually help one slip out through the lap belt. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey rule" <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses > > >> >> I used the military type purchased from Aircraft Spruce.Three way >> system. >> >> Irwin Fust wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Pietenpol folks, >>> Lately there has been discussion on how to install seatbelts and >>> harnesses in the Pietenpol. I have followed this conversation and have >>> gotten some great info on the installation. I thank everyone who has >>> responded to me. This list is a great resource for those of us still >>> in the building process. >>> Now my question: What kind of seat belt and harness system are most of >>> you using in your airplanes. I'm looking for suggestions on which ones >>> to get and where to get them. >>> Thanks and keep building and flying Pietenpols! >>> Irwin >>> ps...My project is about 75% complete and lately it has been a >>> monumental task just to get to 76%! Sometimes one step forward and >>> then 1-1/2 step backward (usually having to re-think some decision I >>> thought I made some time ago). Oh well, that's a Pietenpol! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The nose knows
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Why not just add a spacer behind the propeller? Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The nose knows OK, here's a question that's sure to stir the pot. And it's not even political! We just replaced our A65 with a C75. Everything was a straight fit except the C75 has a tapered shaft and ends up holding the prop about 1/2 inch closer to the cowling than the A65 did. Just close enough to cause problems. So, we cut the snout off the cowling. It's functional but butt-ugly. Actually, butt-ugly insults butts all over the world! Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a URL that links to a photo. We eventually have to make a new an purtier cowl 'cause we're having trouble flying with paper sacks over our heads! Thanks, Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: The nose knows
Jack, The back plate on the taper shaft hub fouled the cowl, too. Sorry, I should have been more specific. Thanks for the thought, though. Probably the best solution would have be a combination of spacer and less cutting of the front of the cowl, though it still would have to have been cut. Thanks again, Jeff > > >Why not just add a spacer behind the propeller? > >Jack Phillips > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >Boatright >Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 12:50 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: The nose knows > > >OK, here's a question that's sure to stir the pot. And it's not even >political! > >We just replaced our A65 with a C75. Everything was a straight fit >except the C75 has a tapered shaft and ends up holding the prop about >1/2 inch closer to the cowling than the A65 did. Just close enough to >cause problems. So, we cut the snout off the cowling. It's functional >but butt-ugly. Actually, butt-ugly insults butts all over the world! > >Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has >one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a >URL that links to a photo. We eventually have to make a new an >purtier cowl 'cause we're having trouble flying with paper sacks over >our heads! > >Thanks, > >Jeff > -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Seat belts and harnesses
----- Original Message ----- From: "Harvey Rule" <harvey.rule(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts and harnesses > > > The lap belt part of the system is 5 to 6 inchs wide and the shoulder > straps are 2 inchs.If you slip out of that then your one slippery > fellow!Besides I usually fly with both feet on the rudder peddles and > that in itself will assist in keeping me in and if that doesn't then > hitting the control post with those delecate parts of your body will > defiinately make you move back! > Race car belts are about the same size as you describe, yet they had a problem. Feet were on brake pedals just as you describe a rudder pedals, but legs were being broken. Bracing ones self seldom helps much. Some impacts had the body slipping out under the lap belts, so they add straps between the legs and sometimes two to make sure the body stayed upright in the proper position in the seat. Last one I saw was a 5 or 6 point harness. It goal was to keep it so the body doesn't hit those key places. Equally importantly its has a single release to get out quickly. Thing is they can be a pain to use. In a run off the end of the runway accident I wonder how much value they would be, but a more serious one I would suspect that value would be much greater. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2006
From: "Scott S." <covertspecialops(at)gmail.com>
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick Harris" <nharris25(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: HS Fuse Attach PT
Date: Jan 11, 2006
Question about the attach point for the HS? I have GN1 plans so this may be a little different. My plans show a solid piece of wood that glues to the inboard side of the leading edge. How thick should this piece be? Should it have a gusset over it or just a but joint? Thanks! Nick Harris nharris25(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 11, 2006
Hi, Funny you should ask about pre-made fittings (or at least pre-cut/pre-bent). I was just killing time looking at Piet pictures an hour ago and came across this site. I can't say how good the work is but the site creator seems to like it. There are a few close-ups of some of the fittings. There will be some welding still but the cutting appears to be done by laser and looks very clean and accurate. Hope it helps, Glenn Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott S. To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 11, 2006
>My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 >electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate >leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, I forgot the paste the link. Here it is... http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-10-03.htm Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:07 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Hi, Funny you should ask about pre-made fittings (or at least pre-cut/pre-bent). I was just killing time looking at Piet pictures an hour ago and came across this site. I can't say how good the work is but the site creator seems to like it. There are a few close-ups of some of the fittings. There will be some welding still but the cutting appears to be done by laser and looks very clean and accurate. >Hope it helps, Glenn Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott S. To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 11, 2006
Scott I have done all my welding with a Campbell Hausfeld wire feed welder (non-MIG). This is my first venture into welding. Luckily for me, my neighbor is a welder (person not machine). He helped me get started and showed me how to practice. He also has cleaned up some of the welds on my project. It's not hard, but there is an art to it, and it does take some practice. All of the welding required for the Pietenpol can be done using an inexpensive welder with a little patience. For me, this was a chance to learn another skill and get another toy. Besides, melting metal together is way cool. The rest of the metal work I did on my bandsaw (woodworking bandsaw with a metal cutting blade), bench grinder, vise and file. Embrace your inner blacksmith and built the Pietenpol. Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott S. Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 11, 2006
Hi Scott, I'm just getting started myself and I'm not a welder either. I have read a couple of books on the topic that came recommended in the William Wynne Corvair Conversion manual. "Aircraft Welding" and "Welder's Handbook" were informative books you can get from the EAA site or possibly even used on Amazon. What I've learned is that because you can't guarantee the penetration of a MIG weld you should OxyAcetylene weld all aircraft parts. I looked into a Victor set of torches and regulators on http://www.cyberweld.com and you can get them for about $250.00 and the cylinders go for about $120.00 each empty. Oxygen costs about $40.00 to fill the tank and Acetylene costs about $30.00 and the cylinders and gas are purchased from your local welding supply company. ...so the whole outfit (less a welding table) goes for roughly $560.00. The other option is TIG welding which is supposedly much more expensive and requires a lot more practice/skill. I want to do everything on my project so I plan on becoming the skilled pro by the time I start making parts. Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott S. To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: re:woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Glenn I believe is correct the only 2 safe methods for welding an aircraft are oxy-acetylene and TIG .This is all I have ever read and what I was told at the workshops at Oshkosh that I attended. I took a course at our local college on oxy-acetylene .It was a great expierience and gave me the confidence I needed.I'm still practicing on scrap metal and making things in metal for around the house,and am destructing some of my welds and am quite pleased with my work.I am a cabinet maker but I find the welding quite relaxing and am seriously considering building the piet out of 4130.They were building a piet at Oshkosh last summer out of metal and when I asked why,the gentleman told me for him welding was the most enjoyable medium he could work with.Also easy to add things like a door and find a place to attach your shoulder harness too. If you get the chance read Budd Davisson's' Zen and the Art of the Weld Puddle' you can find it at http://www.airbum.com.The eaa video on oxy-acet welding is also very good. Regards,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Go here and check out "Zen and the Weld Puddle" under "How To"; http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How Lot's of other neat stuff on Budd's site as well. And whatever you do, DON'T grind, file, or otherwise attempt to clean up your welds. You'll be cutting across the grain lines in the metal thus weakening it. And don't stick it in water to cool it down faster, your inner blacksmith won't like it. Neither will you when it comes apart at some inopportune time. You might want to look into some night school lessons as well. One little trick to make things a little easier is to cut the welding rods in half and fold over one end. That way you'll be sure to pick it up by the cold end every time. :-) Here's an update on my progress, so much to do, so little time. http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol4.html Clif, somewhere on the wetcoast of Nort America. If you really want to know, go see the frapper. :-) http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol PS, "fill in the holes" , good pun, I like it. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I welded up all of my fittings with a gas torch. Did one motor mount wrong with a Tig setup, the replacement was done with gas. I much preferred the gas welding. I am not sure that this is an application for either stick welding or mig welding, although I understand the Maule fuselage is welded together with mig. Hope this helps. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I cut all of mine out with a band saw, and finished with a file. The old fashoned way, but I bet it is a lot more cost effective than laser cutting. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
The inner blacksmith might find it handy to do some reading on welding 4130 tubing. I believe that he might find there is a process call normalizing that will also take out the internal stresses in the weld and soften the metal in the heat effected zone of the weld thereby making it more ductile. This is especially true when welding with a TIG set-up. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 12, 2006
There is a lot to know about welding and a lot of welders aren't familiar with the stringent requirements of aircraft welding. That's why I read a few books. The point Lou Makes with the stress relieving process is important and something my brother would never bother with but I WILL find a place to do this on my engine mount. The book ("Aircraft Welding") is cheap and you can read through it in an evening and have it around for a reference. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: Lou Wither To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings The inner blacksmith might find it handy to do some reading on welding 4130 tubing. I believe that he might find there is a process call normalizing that will also take out the internal stresses in the weld and soften the metal in the heat effected zone of the weld thereby making it more ductile. This is especially true when welding with a TIG set-up. Lou Wither N799LJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 12, 2006
The airbum site is a great resource. ...and your plane is a work of art! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Go here and check out "Zen and the Weld Puddle" under "How To"; http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How Lot's of other neat stuff on Budd's site as well. And whatever you do, DON'T grind, file, or otherwise attempt to clean up your welds. You'll be cutting across the grain lines in the metal thus weakening it. And don't stick it in water to cool it down faster, your inner blacksmith won't like it. Neither will you when it comes apart at some inopportune time. You might want to look into some night school lessons as well. One little trick to make things a little easier is to cut the welding rods in half and fold over one end. That way you'll be sure to pick it up by the cold end every time. :-) Here's an update on my progress, so much to do, so little time. http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol4.html Clif, somewhere on the wetcoast of Nort America. If you really want to know, go see the frapper. :-) http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol PS, "fill in the holes" , good pun, I like it. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: welding/premade parts
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Hi Scott, Welcome to Piet land! I know that Lee Stenson at Brodhead airport had some parts laser cut and was offering them for sale about four years ago. I don't have his number but you could track him down if you get hold of someone at Brodhead, WI airport. Maybe he has some laying around. They were very nice. Do not be afraid to tackle the fittings, they're very simple. Think of it as hard plywood and work it the same, just use metal working tools. The bandsaw mentioned is perfect, just use a metal cutting blade and slow the speed down, then file and grind edges etc, etc. Be sure you get Tony Bingalas' books on building from EAA and you'll gain lots of confidence. Don't mig weld aircraft parts. TIG is too expensive, so find yourself a nice little oxy/acetelyne setup and a book or two or even a video (all available through EAA or elsewhere) and just start. If you have a friend, ask him or pay a welder to help you for a few hours. Be sure you use good rod from an aircraft supplier once you really start on actual fittings, but you can research that later. If this all was that difficult, you think we'd be able to be doing it??!! and.. just keep asking questions, that's why we're all here Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 12, 2006
That would be DJ Vegh's fantastic site. An inspiration to many of us. The Emachineshop he links, may still has his job on file. Though one thing to remember is that DJ's plane is a GN1, so the fittings are different from the Pietenpol. Additionally I seem to recall DJ indicated that since he has had his parts made, the prices for their work had gone up considerably. But they may be worth a try if you are looking for a way to avoid doing to much metal work. Michael Silvius In Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas I forgot the paste the link. Here it is... http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-10-03.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: seat belts
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Irwin, I used car racing belts with a wide lap belt and two narrower, over the shoulder belts that are permanently attached to the lap belt, which opens in the middle using a large lever type buckle. I used this belt in off-roading and really like the larger width across my lap, though this stuff IS heavier than aircraft stuff. It's a little hard to snuggle into, but so what. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Scott S." <covertspecialops(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I took a metals class back in college (20 yrs) ago, in which we did some gas welding. Seeing the instructor break apart with his bare hands what looked like a good weld taught me there's much more to it than meets the eye. I swore I'd NEVER trust my own gas welding. That's why I asked about electric, but it appears that's not so simple either. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: seat belts
Always remember there are places on your body that are suspended in water or a substance like water.Even though you hold your body ridged in a crach ,these parts move anyway,very quickly to a point where they are either stopped by bone or they just tear through the flesh.I have heard horrifying stories (some may be myths) of instances where parts have kept going and it don't matter how good your held in place.Then again most injuries in a car would be prevented had the people inside been held in place better.We should all really wear helmets when driving a car or flying a plane.Like it or not it would help a lot of head injuries. > Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Irwin, > > I used car racing belts with a wide lap belt and two narrower, over > the shoulder belts that are permanently attached to the lap belt, > which opens in the middle using a large lever type buckle. > > I used this belt in off-roading and really like the larger width > across my lap, though this stuff IS heavier than aircraft stuff. > > It's a little hard to snuggle into, but so what. > > Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com>
Another good welding source is: Book: Performance Welding by Richard Finch - Richard is one of the guys who comes up to EAA and volunteers in the gas welding both, and he visits the EAA museum during the January EAA Sportair workshops to teach gas welding. You can find his welding books (and he published a book on "How to keep your Corvair engine running") in stores like "Home Depot", however the cover on the welding book when sold at Home Depot may say something like "Monster Garage Welding" or something, but I think it's the same "how to" book, and it will have his name on it. When speaking with him, he explains how many commercial built airframes have been MIG welded over the years due to simply the cost savings in time, and he mentioned specific types of planes which I can not recall. He also discussed with the group that I was in when he spoke about normalizing welds. The message I left with after all said and done is that I will not attempt to normalize any welds, and I will be better off just letting the weld cool down slowly. I am also more of a woodworker than a metal worker and have all the same issues during the metal working process..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:34 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal =66ittings =09 =09 The airbum site is a great resource. ...and your plane is a work of art! ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Go here and check out "Zen and the Weld Puddle" under "How To"; http://www.airbum.com/articles.html#How Lot's of other neat stuff on Budd's site as well. And whatever you do, DON'T grind, file, or otherwise attempt to clean up your welds. You'll be cutting across the grain lines in the metal thus weakening it. And don't stick it in water to cool it down faster, your inner blacksmith won't like it. Neither will you when it comes apart at some inopportune time. You might want to look into some night school lessons as well. One little trick to make things a little easier is to cut the welding rods in half and fold over one end. That way you'll be sure to pick it up by the cold end every time. :-) Here's an update on my progress, so much to do, so little time. http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol4.html Clif, somewhere on the wetcoast of Nort America. If you really want to know, go see the frapper. :-) http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol PS, "fill in the holes" , good pun, I like it. Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings Again, I only know what I've read, but those books seem helpful. I hear the the Welder's handbook is weak in some areas but the literature that comes with a Victor welding rig is supposed to fill in the holes. Good luck! Glenn This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Seat belts and harnesses, and ignitions
Date: Jan 12, 2006
My opinion on seat belts and harnesses, based on NX41CC and my roughly 150 lb., 5'-10" frame. After the nose-over incident, I was determined to change the seat belts in the airplane to a race-car type harness. I figured I wouldn't be able to anchor the submarine strap (the one up between your legs) due to the controls being right there below the pilot's crotch, but a 4-point would be fine. So I bought a basic quick-release race car harness from Summitt Racing, one that had a single strap going aft from the shoulder harnesses so I could still use the same anchor point in the aft fuselage, and ditched the submarine strap. I got it all to fit on the old anchor points and slid into the seat for a fit. And I didn't even get the wide, fat straps that are available; I think mine are only 2" wide straps and you can get some honkin' 3" wide ones. I ended up with a big, fat buckle and latch assembly not only in my lap, but pressing the tops of my thighs and restricting the use of my legs. Not only was it not comfortable, it may be a bit dangerous because it severely restricts the motions needed to fly the airplane and to lean out the side to toss a roll of toilet paper (oops... I didn't mean that). Seriously, it will...not...work...in the snug little Piet cockpit. If you want to try it and see, email me privately with your address and I'll send you a brand-new Summit Racing 5-point harness in blue to try for yourself. Really! It's sitting in a box in my hangar for anybody who wants to try it out (then buy it if you want it after trying it). So I've gone back to the olive-drab, military-style seat belt and harness that Corky put in the airplane originally and we're back to comfortable again. I don't like the fact that the shoulder straps on this military rig can be unhooked from the lap belt, but will have to live with that and be aware that it can happen unintentionally. And by the way, there was a discussion a few days ago about stuff on the instrument panel and I already mentioned that good old Charlie ended up with half an ignition key embedded in his forehead when the plane went over on its back. It snapped off in the ignition switch when he hit, and Charlie's face was all bloody from the cut on his forehead from the key. When you install stuff on your panel, check where your head would hit if you were slammed forward before you "get it tune with your inner ignition key"! Another thing I found from this (I'm replacing the ignition wiring with shielded, to cut the radio noise) is that the blow to the ignition switch stripped one of the screws that holds the switch together, and at some point could have led to an open "hot" mag when it was supposed to be grounded, or a dead mag when it was supposed to be driving an A65 toilet-paper slicer in the air. The screws that hold the switch together screw into plastic, and the impact had stripped out one of the two screws. Either way, I use this as an example to carefully examine things after you have an incident of some sort. I now have an identical, brand-new ACS ignition switch. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: the nose knows
Date: Jan 12, 2006
I guess noses are like opinions... everybody has one and there is at least one you don't like. I think that the nose of 41CC is about the best treatment I've ever seen on a Continental-powered Piet (see the top couple of pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ), and it's essentially the same as Mike Cuy's. I really do think it's tops for simplicity and clean lines. Most of the others look too boxy, or too bulbuous, or too... something, to me. They try to enclose too much of the engine and accessories and end up detracting from the lines of the airplane. There are several other very attractive Piet noses I've seen, though... William Wynne's ill-fated Corvair-powered Piet had a very nice shape to the nose if you plan to have a spinner, and the absolutely incredible artwork that DJ Vegh did for Sterling Brooks to create the TACO logo, featured a fabulous Piet with a beautiful nose treatment that brings out that antique look if that's what you're after... sort of like what the cowling would look like if you hung a Ranger or other inverted inline engine on the nose. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: the nose knows
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Oscar: Can you send a picture of your nose (the airplane nose... I've already seen your personal nose in Junction...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows > > > I guess noses are like opinions... everybody has one and there is at least > one you don't like. I think that the nose of 41CC is about the best > treatment I've ever seen on a Continental-powered Piet (see the top couple > of pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ), and it's > essentially the same as Mike Cuy's. I really do think it's tops for > simplicity and clean lines. Most of the others look too boxy, or too > bulbuous, or too... something, to me. They try to enclose too much of the > engine and accessories and end up detracting from the lines of the > airplane. > > There are several other very attractive Piet noses I've seen, though... > William Wynne's ill-fated Corvair-powered Piet had a very nice shape to > the nose if you plan to have a spinner, and the absolutely incredible > artwork that DJ Vegh did for Sterling Brooks to create the TACO logo, > featured a fabulous Piet with a beautiful nose treatment that brings out > that antique look if that's what you're after... sort of like what the > cowling would look like if you hung a Ranger or other inverted inline > engine on the nose. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: the nose knows
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Seriously, I'm in need of some direction as I get close to building the nose on my Piet... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows > > Oscar: > > Can you send a picture of your nose (the airplane nose... I've already > seen your personal nose in Junction...) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:37 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: the nose knows > > >> >> >> I guess noses are like opinions... everybody has one and there is at >> least one you don't like. I think that the nose of 41CC is about the >> best treatment I've ever seen on a Continental-powered Piet (see the top >> couple of pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html ), >> and it's essentially the same as Mike Cuy's. I really do think it's tops >> for simplicity and clean lines. Most of the others look too boxy, or too >> bulbuous, or too... something, to me. They try to enclose too much of >> the engine and accessories and end up detracting from the lines of the >> airplane. >> >> There are several other very attractive Piet noses I've seen, though... >> William Wynne's ill-fated Corvair-powered Piet had a very nice shape to >> the nose if you plan to have a spinner, and the absolutely incredible >> artwork that DJ Vegh did for Sterling Brooks to create the TACO logo, >> featured a fabulous Piet with a beautiful nose treatment that brings out >> that antique look if that's what you're after... sort of like what the >> cowling would look like if you hung a Ranger or other inverted inline >> engine on the nose. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Carter" <flyinhobo(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Scott, Go to aviation(at)metalcraftuk.freeserve.co.uk _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott S. Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left
Guys-- have you seen this crate yet ?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603404406&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting I'd wanna see this one in person before buying it...........even cheap. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left
I just hope whoever buys it tells us how those brakes work....with what appear to be straight laced hubs..... -----Original Message----- >From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> >Sent: Jan 12, 2006 11:29 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left > > >Guys-- have you seen this crate yet ?? > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603404406&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting > > >I'd wanna see this one in person before buying it...........even cheap. > >Mike C. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left
ANY plane will stop at least once.... Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> >Sent: Jan 12, 2006 1:14 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left > > >I just hope whoever buys it tells us how those brakes work....with what appear to be straight laced hubs..... > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> >>Sent: Jan 12, 2006 11:29 AM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Piet on ebay 1day left >> >> >>Guys-- have you seen this crate yet ?? >> >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4603404406&indexURL=2&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting >> >> >>I'd wanna see this one in person before buying it...........even cheap. >> >>Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator center beam question
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Need help with a plans question on the elevator. Just finished laying out the tail surfaces in Cadd and had a question on the center beam dimensions in the plan. The depth of the center beam is listed as 3/4", but the main beam depth is only 5/8"... This would put a bow of 1/16" per side on the elevators and then it tapers back to 1/2" at the trailing edge. What are the thoughts out there on this? When you constructed your elevators, did you use the full depth 3/4" center beam, or did you shave this down to 5/8", or even a bit more to match the taper back to the trailing edge... In looking this over, I don't think the 1/16" bow will affect anything, just curious what others have done. Same question for the rudder as it's beam dimensions are the same as the elevators. Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator center beam question
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Dan, I tapered mine down to 5/8" starting from about six inches from each tip. Jack Textor Need help with a plans question on the elevator. Just finished laying out the tail surfaces in Cadd and had a question on the center beam dimensions in the plan. The depth of the center beam is listed as 3/4", but the main beam depth is only 5/8"... This would put a bow of 1/16" per side on the elevators and then it tapers back to 1/2" at the trailing edge. What are the thoughts out there on this? When you constructed your elevators, did you use the full depth 3/4" center beam, or did you shave this down to 5/8", or even a bit more to match the taper back to the trailing edge... In looking this over, I don't think the 1/16" bow will affect anything, just curious what others have done. Same question for the rudder as it's beam dimensions are the same as the elevators. Thanks! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Subject: Steel fittings
Scott: A lot of the steel fittings are simple steel strap. For instance strut fittings are .90 X 1 X what ever long. AS&S sells steel strip in various sizes and withs, just cut to length. buy an extra couple of feet of everything . This saved me a lot of work. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
In a message dated 1/11/2006 9:10:53 PM Central Standard Time, covertspecialops(at)gmail.com writes: Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. I say you are a Craftsman, and one way or another, you're going to do all your metal work, including the welding. Then, you can get back to woodwork, and build your Toilet-Paper cutter...I mean Prop. I learned to weld at 'The School of Hard Knocks'. My dad was the instructor, I was a young teenager, class was in his Auto Repair Shop, and my most important task in the winter, was to keep the coal furnace going !! I'm currently building a Wittman Tailwind W10, and I will tack weld with a MIG, then oxy/accy weld the clusters. No normalize. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Elevator center beam question
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Dan Build just like the plan shows. The corners( rear elevater ) will have to be tapered so the gussets lay flat. The center beam & main beam where the wire braces attach should be built up flush with the ribs.This allows the brackets to be mounted on top of the fabric.This makes it a lot easier to cover & paint. Drill holes in the wood than after it's covered melt the holes in the fabric with a small soldering iron. Dale in Mpls > [Original Message] > From: Dan Loegering <danl(at)odayequipment.com> > To: > Date: 1/12/2006 2:02:52 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator center beam question > > > Need help with a plans question on the elevator. > > Just finished laying out the tail surfaces in Cadd and had a question on the center beam dimensions in the plan. The depth of the center beam is listed as 3/4", but the main beam depth is only 5/8"... This would put a bow of 1/16" per side on the elevators and then it tapers back to 1/2" at the trailing edge. > > What are the thoughts out there on this? When you constructed your elevators, did you use the full depth 3/4" center beam, or did you shave this down to 5/8", or even a bit more to match the taper back to the trailing edge... > > In looking this over, I don't think the 1/16" bow will affect anything, just curious what others have done. Same question for the rudder as it's beam dimensions are the same as the elevators. > > Thanks! > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I must make mention of that site......they will not let you use someones else pattern even if you have permission. The only way to get those parts are to find the original person who ordered them and have them call it in and ship to his door. Then he can send them to you. Their policy is non-negotiable to everyone......This village idiot tried with another aircraft. Having said all of that gobletty goop....They do excellent work and very reasonable. Now affordable to you and me......that another story. Ken Do not Archive MICHAEL SILVIUS wrote: That would be DJ Vegh's fantastic site. An inspiration to many of us. The Emachineshop he links, may still has his job on file. Though one thing to remember is that DJ's plane is a GN1, so the fittings are different from the Pietenpol. Additionally I seem to recall DJ indicated that since he has had his parts made, the prices for their work had gone up considerably. But they may be worth a try if you are looking for a way to avoid doing to much metal work. Michael Silvius In Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Thomas I forgot the paste the link. Here it is... http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-10-03.htm --------------------------------- Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corvair engine cowling.....
Hello Fellow Pietens: The simple question I have is this: Are there any plans for a corvair designed cowling? The photo sent with my plans (appears to be a piet with a corvair engine) looks just like a production cowl. Very well done! Does anyone have plans or drawings to make fabrication guessing much less enjoyable? I am allergic to cranial rectal inversion even though I catch it every so often. Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires
Scott: I too have been searching for a good set of lightweight tundra tires for my piet. Here is what I have come up with. At our local Fleet Farm they carry Carlisle Tires size 18x9.50x8NHS 4 ply tubeless rib TL for $31.99. I like the size and width of these tires and they are not very heavy. If you get a chance to look at these (Carlisle web site ) tell me your thoughts. They look very much like the real aircraft tires with a wide profile and moderate groove channels. Be very interested in what others have to say. Also wondering the weight of complete set-ups of motorcycle tires vs tundra tires?... Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires
Date: Jan 12, 2006
Ken My Harley wheels weigh out at 58 lbs. Thats 2 - 21 in rims with tires, rotors, calipers and axle. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires Scott: I too have been searching for a good set of lightweight tundra tires for my piet. Here is what I have come up with. At our local Fleet Farm they carry Carlisle Tires size 18x9.50x8NHS 4 ply tubeless rib TL for $31.99. I like the size and width of these tires and they are not very heavy. If you get a chance to look at these (Carlisle web site ) tell me your thoughts. They look very much like the real aircraft tires with a wide profile and moderate groove channels. Be very interested in what others have to say. Also wondering the weight of complete set-ups of motorcycle tires vs tundra tires?... Ken Heide Fargo, ND Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine cowling.....
Date: Jan 13, 2006
I personally like the William Wynne rendition. Oscar has a good set of pictures on his page at: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html looks like most of the parts are flat panel. The top segment of the cowl could be shaped freehand out of foam to a pleasing profile and made of fiberglass. A lot of the full cowls you see on Piets w/ Corvairs are for the original Corvair converssion retaining the belt driven blower fan. michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide To: Pietenpol Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine cowling..... Hello Fellow Pietens: The simple question I have is this: Are there any plans for a corvair designed cowling? The photo sent with my plans (appears to be a piet with a corvair engine) looks just like a production cowl. Very well done! Does anyone have plans or drawings to make fabrication guessing much less enjoyable? I am allergic to cranial rectal inversion even though I catch it every so often. Ken Heide Fargo, ND Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Steel fittings
Leon, please spell out who AS&S is, as a source for flat steel. thanks -----Original Message----- >From: Leon Stefan <lshutks(at)webtv.net> >Sent: Jan 12, 2006 5:13 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel fittings > > >Scott: A lot of the steel fittings are simple steel strap. For instance >strut fittings are .90 X 1 X what ever long. AS&S sells steel strip in >various sizes and withs, just cut to length. buy an extra couple of feet >of everything . This saved me a lot of work. Leon S. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Steel fittings
sorry Leon, Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Leon Stefan <lshutks(at)webtv.net> >Sent: Jan 12, 2006 5:13 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel fittings > > >Scott: A lot of the steel fittings are simple steel strap. For instance >strut fittings are .90 X 1 X what ever long. AS&S sells steel strip in >various sizes and withs, just cut to length. buy an extra couple of feet >of everything . This saved me a lot of work. Leon S. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The nose knows
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
In my opinion, the one feature that seems to "make or break" the appearance of individual Pietenpols is "the nose". If you find a photo of a Piet that you really like, and one that you really don't, and cover up the noses on both, quite often you will find not so much different between the two (with the exception of overall quality, and paint scheme). One of the characteristics that sets the original Piet apart from other aircraft is the stubby nose, which was a result of the heavy Ford engine up front. By maintaining the basic shape of the nose from the original Piet (Ford powered) some (Frank Pavliga, Mike Cuy, Corky and others) have been able to successfully carry the "feel" of the original design. Here's a link to a nice shot of Frank Pavliga's clean installation: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Jford@indstate.edu.09.13.2003/59_pie t_with_tailskid.jpg A beautifully hand-crafted aluminum cowling was on display at Brodhead in 2003. This one has compound curves, and is much more work than other designs, but I think looks sharp. By the way, this was built by Ty Daniels, of Brodhead, while attending High School/College. Here's a link to a shot, as well as an attached photo (N518EP): http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Jford@indstate.edu.09.13.2003/54_bla ck_and_red_piet.jpg Another cowling design that "works" for me is Hans van der Voort's recently completed Piet. http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol/photo/302598 http://www.hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/cowling.html Some British Piets have some cowlings that seem to work well. G-BXZO has a relatively simple cowling (no compound curves) that is effective and looks good: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/677559/L/ http://www.airliners.net/open.file/931305/L/ G-BUCO has a cowling that evokes the feel of the Thirties. Only the nose bowl looks to be a bit more challenging: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/678119/L/ http://www.airliners.net/open.file/976273/L/ G-ECVB has a nice looking nose. Compound curve on the top (so more difficulty to fabricate), but it looks really sharp, I think: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/678121/L/ http://www.airliners.net/open.file/276262/L/ (is that enough URL's for you?) And finally, I have also attached a few shots of the cowling on a Canadian Piet that I had a look at this summer. Similar to the cowl on G-BUCO, but maybe not quite as complicated to build. (Collingwood pics) Anyway, these are a few ideas. Bill PS: I have reduced the size of the attachments for the sake of those with slow internet connections. Hopefully the resolution is big enough to be legible. Here's the question: What is your favorite cowl on a Piet that has one of the Cont/Lyc/Frank flat four engines? If possible, supply a URL that links to a photo. Thanks, Jeff =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I was in the same place you are about two years ago. Figured I would find a professional welder to do my welding also. First question is do you want to learn a new craft besides woodworking? I first took a gas welding class at the local community college then a TIG class. After that I still wasn't sure that I trusted my life to my welding ability so I took the EAA tig class specifically for aircraft welding. Just one weekend and I knew I could it. Bought a tig machine and have done all my own welding. I am doing little welding jobs all the time, can't imagine having to drive to a welding shop every time I needed a weld done. Very little difference between welding 4130 and mild steel (or even stainless), and welding aluminum with tig is also easy (unlike with gas). And that good feeling you get now showing someone your excellent woodwork? The feeling is even better showing people your metal/welding work since most people have worked with wood, but few know anything about metal work. Every time the subject of welding comes up on any homebuilder newsgroup the subject of stress relieving comes up. I decided I would be to the bottom of that when I started taking welding classes. I have personally interviewed at least 12 welding 'gods' at every Sun n Fun and Oshkosh welding forum I could find for 3 years including Finch himself plus Miller and Lincoln PhD metallurgist factory engineers who have done laboratory stress testing on the subject and published white papers. The final verdict - you don't need to stress relieve. Concerning fabricating metal I just use a $49 angle grinder with 1/8" cutting wheels, a $99 bench top drill press, $49 cordless hand drill, and a $39 6" bench grinding wheel, can get by without a metal band saw (although it wouldn't hurt, can get a cheap one for $199 at Grizzly). On 1/11/06, Scott S. wrote: > > I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in > the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last > spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. > > My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person > to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must > it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as > to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools > or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. > Metalworker I am not. > > Thanks for any info you guys can give. > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: welding/premade parts
One thing to think about concerning precut fittings, several can be too small if cut to plan dimensions, like the motor mount fittings. You can find info on this in the archives. On 1/12/06, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > Hi Scott, > > Welcome to Piet land! > > I know that Lee Stenson at Brodhead airport had some parts laser cut and > was offering them for sale about four years ago. I don't have his number > but you could track him down if you get hold of someone at Brodhead, WI > airport. Maybe he has some laying around. They were very nice. > > Do not be afraid to tackle the fittings, they're very simple. Think of it > as hard plywood and work it the same, just use metal working tools. The > bandsaw mentioned is perfect, just use a metal cutting blade and slow the > speed down, then file and grind edges etc, etc. Be sure you get Tony > Bingalas' books on building from EAA and you'll gain lots of confidence. > > Don't mig weld aircraft parts. TIG is too expensive, so find yourself a > nice little oxy/acetelyne setup and a book or two or even a video (all > available through EAA or elsewhere) and just start. If you have a friend, > ask him or pay a welder to help you for a few hours. Be sure you use good > rod from an aircraft supplier once you really start on actual fittings, but > you can research that later. > > If this all was that difficult, you think we'd be able to be doing it??!! > > and.. just keep asking questions, that's why we're all here > > Douwe > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: re:woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I agree, if I build another Piet I would weld the fuselage and save weight at the same time. Compared to the cost of the spruce fuselage I am building now I don't think it would cost much more either. On 1/11/06, Michael Turrell wrote: > > Glenn I believe is correct the only 2 safe methods for welding an aircraft > are oxy-acetylene and TIG .This is all I have ever read and what I was told > at the workshops at Oshkosh that I attended. I took a course at our local > college on oxy-acetylene .It was a great expierience and gave me the > confidence I needed.I'm still practicing on scrap metal and making things > in metal for around the house,and am destructing some of my welds and am > quite pleased with my work.I am a cabinet maker but I find the welding > quite relaxing and am seriously considering building the piet out of > 4130.They were building a piet at Oshkosh last summer out of metal and > when I asked why,the gentleman told me for him welding was the most > enjoyable medium he could work with.Also easy to add things like a door > and find a place to attach your shoulder harness too. > If you get the chance read Budd Davisson's' Zen and the Art of the Weld > Puddle' you can find it at http://www.airbum.com.The eaa video on oxy-acet > welding is also very good. > Regards,Mike > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Just to add to what Rick said, welding is not that difficult to learn. Buy a "Grab Bag" of scrap 4130 ($15) from AS&S to practice on, take a course at OSH or SNF, or just get someone from your local EAA chapter who knows how to weld teach you for a few minutes, then just practice. I started building a wooden airplane becasue I didn't know how to weld, but a local EAA member showed me how, I bought the oxyacetylene rig from AS&S and did all the welding on my Pietenpol except for the aluminum fuel tank and the stainless exhausts, which a friend TIG welded for me. I bought the $199 metal cutting bandsaw from Grizzly and highly recommend it. Even after finishing the Piet, I find that I use it a lot, and it sure makes it easier to cut out the steel parts for a Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings I was in the same place you are about two years ago. Figured I would find a professional welder to do my welding also. First question is do you want to learn a new craft besides woodworking? I first took a gas welding class at the local community college then a TIG class. After that I still wasn't sure that I trusted my life to my welding ability so I took the EAA tig class specifically for aircraft welding. Just one weekend and I knew I could it. Bought a tig machine and have done all my own welding. I am doing little welding jobs all the time, can't imagine having to drive to a welding shop every time I needed a weld done. Very little difference between welding 4130 and mild steel (or even stainless), and welding aluminum with tig is also easy (unlike with gas). And that good feeling you get now showing someone your excellent woodwork? The feeling is even better showing people your metal/welding work since most people have worked with wood, but few know anything about metal work. Every time the subject of welding comes up on any homebuilder newsgroup the subject of stress relieving comes up. I decided I would be to the bottom of that when I started taking welding classes. I have personally interviewed at least 12 welding 'gods' at every Sun n Fun and Oshkosh welding forum I could find for 3 years including Finch himself plus Miller and Lincoln PhD metallurgist factory engineers who have done laboratory stress testing on the subject and published white papers. The final verdict - you don't need to stress relieve. Concerning fabricating metal I just use a $49 angle grinder with 1/8" cutting wheels, a $99 bench top drill press, $49 cordless hand drill, and a $39 6" bench grinding wheel, can get by without a metal band saw (although it wouldn't hurt, can get a cheap one for $199 at Grizzly). On 1/11/06, Scott S. wrote: I'm an excellent woodworker who's intimidated by all the metal fittings in the Pietenpol. If not for that, I'd have jumped headlong into building last spring when I first ordered plans and signed up for this list. My first question (among many), is it possible for an inexperienced person to weld the small parts with a $300 electric welder from Home Depot, or must it be done by a skilled professional? Secondly, I would appreciate leads as to where I can buy fittings pre-made for the Piet, as I don't have the tools or knowledge to cut them out quickly and efficiently. Resourceful I am. Metalworker I am not. Thanks for any info you guys can give. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: "The nose knows"...my Pietenpol cowling.
Date: Jan 13, 2006
Group, This cowling is made from .032" commercial soft aluminum and has survived 750 flying hours over a period of 35 years. The picture was taken on November 15, 2000---the thirtieth anniversary of its first flight. The engine is a Continental C 85. The upper cowl is made of three pieces: top center portion and two sides. The lower cowl is a single piece of sheet aluminum, with a segment below the propeller cut out and the resulting lap joint riveted together. The only compound curvature is in the top center piece which was made by hammer, sand bag and dolly. If I were to do it again, I'd extend this compound curvature further aft to minimize the "break" in the upper cowl line at the firewall. Otherwise, I'd change nothing in the basic design and construction. This cowling is light in weight and relatively easy to make. Construction paper was used for a "mockup". Patterns were made and then transferred to the sheet metal. If anyone is interested, I can perhaps find a more detailed photo and maybe cobble together a sketch of its construction. Graham Hansen Mail0008.JPG to determine how attachments are handled. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires
Date: Jan 13, 2006
Kenneth H. Are you going to use the slicks or straight trac? Looks like they weigh about 9lbs ea. Scott R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 13, 2006
Subject: AS&S- Tundra tires
AS & S is Aircraft Spruce and Specialties. My entire landing gear with tundra tires (except bungees) weighs 48 lbs. Its the J-3 style from the plans. I accidentally ordered tubing a size heavier than I needed, so I could have saved even more weight Kirk Huizenga has asked me to send him pictures and he offered to post them. I don't have that ability. The front cockpit door comes up occasionally. I also need to dig up a photo of the beef up needed with the Kerri Ann Price door for Kirk to post also. Kirk, I am going to shoot some better pictures this weekend. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: woodworker intimidated by metal fittings
I have lowered myself to doing some dumpster diving at the local muffler shops after hours. The smaller diameter exhaust pipe is great for practicing. If a homeless person asks you what you're doing just say your muffler rusted off. And I also got the grab bag of 4130 from AS, ended up using several pieces of it on my Piet. On 1/13/06, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > Just to add to what Rick said, welding is not that difficult to learn. > Buy a "Grab Bag" of scrap 4130 ($15) from AS&S to practice on, take a course > at OSH or SNF, or just get someone from your local EAA chapter who knows how > to weld teach you for a few minutes, then just practice. I started building > a wooden airplane becasue I didn't know how to weld, but a local EAA member > showed me how, I bought the oxyacetylene rig from AS&S and did all the > welding on my Pietenpol except for the aluminum fuel tank and the stainless > exhausts, which a friend TIG welded for me. > > > I bought the $199 metal cutting bandsaw from Grizzly and highly recommend > it. Even after finishing the Piet, I find that I use it a lot, and it sure > makes it easier to cut out the steel parts for a Pietenpol. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine cowling.....
I'm torn. I like the idea of Jim Malley's Jenny style with all that bright shiny engine turning but I also like this one, except for all that stuff hanging off the bottom, which wouldn't be there on a corvair. Usually the eyebrow thing reminds me of a certain Disney character but here they're not so noticeable. Made by Bill Borie, Winterhaven, FL And seatbelts. One important consideration that's a deciding factor in certified AC is the ability to pop the latch easily when one is hanging upside down, not always the case with standard auto belts I'm told. Clif Hello Fellow Pietens: The simple question I have is this: Are there any plans for a corvair designed cowling? The photo sent with my plans (appears to be a piet with a corvair engine) looks just like a production cowl. Very well done! Does anyone have plans or drawings to make fabrication guessing much less enjoyable? I am allergic to cranial rectal inversion even though I catch it every so often. Ken Heide Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List thrust line.....
Pieters, I just put my wings on in the machine shed and I gave the top longerons a quick angle measurment and came up with 14 degrees. Now part of the problem is that I started out with 6:00 x 6 wheels but then went to 21 inch motorcycle wheel which raised the axles about 3 inches. I think 12 degrees is normal and wonder how it will handle, Sure looks high but easy to prop. This was measured empty but with my 230 pounds in the back seat the tailwheel will probably deflect as much as the mains. Any comments would be appreciated. Ken Conrad in very mild Iowa. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List thrust line.....
Date: Jan 13, 2006
One word of caution, when you get to flying. Make sure that you get the tail up


December 21, 2005 - January 14, 2006

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-eu