Pietenpol-List Archive Browser

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ew
January 28, 2006 - February 22, 2006

building, etc. I have yet to do I get dizzy, just like looking down a thousand foot cliff. Then I catch myself and start saying to myself 'all I have to do today (or this week) is layout the instrument panel, don't worry about the rest of it'. And suddenly I feel just fine. Just like the NFL players always say in the interviews, don't worry about the Super Bowl, just take it one game at a time. If I just wanted a Piet to fly in I could go out and buy one and save all that time and possibly even some money. Rick H > > > I compare it to rockclimbing where looking at the rest of the work is like > looking down. I'm just going focus on finishing one thing at a time. My > wing wood will be here Monday so this weekend will be partially devoted to > completing the rib jig. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Hello everyone; I am trying to gather all the info I can on a steel tube fuselage for the Piet.Does anyone know of anyone here that has gone this route.I have found one in the UK,a Steve Bryan but so far no luck getting in touch with him.Bernies drawing for the steel tube leaves a lot of unanswered questions. My thoughts are to weld the fuse the same way the wood one is done as then it would be a matter of adapting everything directly from the plans,though I definetly will want a door for the front seat.Any thoughts on this,(welding it the same as the wood fuse that is,the door is a bonus)? As to why I would like a steel fuse instead of wood,it is simply because as a cabinet maker,I work with wood everyday and just require the challenge of something new,and besides I have found that chasing a weld puddle can be relaxing and fun. Regards,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Ceiling
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Last summer we had NX18235 to 10,000+ msl. This was with an A-65 and a climb prop. At 10,500 it was still climbing at 100+ fpm. The test pilot wasn't dressed for the temperatures to continue any further. Temps at altitude were estimated to be 45 - 50 deg. F. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ceiling was Westach gauges In a message dated 1/27/2006 9:00:11 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: So on a 90 degree day the density altitude is around 10,500 ft. and you are still on the ground! And you're not even in the mountains yet. Rick, That's why I'm searching for the Absolute Ceiling - not the Service Ceiling. The Absolute Ceiling is the point where the wing is at the Critical Angle of Attack the wing will stall if any more altitude is attempted. In addition to the EGT and CHT instruments, I installed a mixture control to keep the engine happy in the thin air. Until I conclude these test flights, I wouldn't even attempt to get my plane off the runway at your elevation, under those conditions. I will certainly report to the group here, the results of the tests. I'll have my video camera with me. My field elevation is 1360 msl, and It feels like I'm on the edge of space up there !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: piet for sale again
Sorry to hear of your health/license issues. I have thought about what I would do under the same circumstances and here is what I came up with: http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm Just go part 103. Flew a Hawk a couple of years ago and loved it. I would have gone for the Hawk instead of a Piet except I decided I liked building as much as flying and wanted to learn how to build a real airplane from scratch. Good luck. Rick H On 1/27/06, Carl Vought wrote: > > Hi Carl Loar...I have had pretty much the same experience. I waited too > late in life to start my Piet(s), but the timing was dictated by the passage > of the legislation regarding Sport Pilots. I've got two and I doubt I'll > ever fly either one, so mine are for sale too. This getting old is great for > the independence it brings, but the health issues suck!!!...Carl Vought > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Carl <skycarl@buckeye-express.com> > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:18 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: piet for sale again > > Greetings All, > It's been a while since I have posted, although I still love reading the > posts all of you > put in here. Last year, because of my health, I decided to try to sell my > piet project. > I put it on Ebay and got a buyer but he backed out after the auction was > over. > This left me mixed feelings, great I still have it and POed because he > blew others off that > were bidding also. Anyway, I have decided again that as much as I want to > finish it and > fly it, I'm not physically capable anymore of doing that. So, I have > decided to ask in here > first if anyone is looking for a project that needs work,( been in the > hanger for two years now) > and looking rough, but it has a good corvair on it with prop, all > instruments, horrible paint job, > but has great potential to give someone a great finishing project and > years of fun flying. > I will have to dig out some pics of it, but some old pics of when I was > building it can be found > here, http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage1.html> > > I am asking 3500$ for it. The buyer will have to go and pull the wings and > trailer it home. > I would rather see it bought here than on ebay so I will wait a while > before going that route. > It is currently hangered at Betz airfield, Blissfield Michigan... about > 30miles nw of Toledo, OH. > Take care all > Carl Loar > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New to the List
Keep up the good work Dick, you need have that thing done for Broadhead this summer so we can all drewl over it. I will bring the beer this time. Rick H. On 1/24/06, Dick Navratil wrote: > > horzpool(at)goldengate.net> > > Hey Mike > I'm here in St. Paul all winter this year. I'm working hard on gettin g > thae radial engine started in the next couple of weeks. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 2:33 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the List > > > > > > > > Ben-- the guy you want to talk to is Chris Bobka in MSP. He is a > > world-renowned expert in Pietenpols and small > > aircraft engines. > > > > I think Dick Navratil is from MN too....but not positve. I know he > > winters in FL. > > > > Welcome to the list ! > > > > PS-- take a shop course in gas welding or if you have access to a TIG > unit > > use that for your metal fittings. If you can make > > metal fittings that is half the battle. More than 1/2 acutally. The > > woodwork is pretty easy, but the metal work and welding > > are the time-consuming portions of the plane. > > > > PSS-- get ALL of the Tony Bingelis books from EAA on building > homebuilts. > > You can order them on the EAA web site. I think the > > set of 4 books are something like $80. VERY much worth the money. > > > > Mike C. in Ohio > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: piet for sale again
Date: Jan 28, 2006
This project is not for someone who wants to build (it's too close to completion.) Even though there are things to do, it's probably not enough to satisfy a builder. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet for sale again Sorry to hear of your health/license issues. I have thought about what I would do under the same circumstances and here is what I came up with: http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm Just go part 103. Flew a Hawk a couple of years ago and loved it. I would have gone for the Hawk instead of a Piet except I decided I liked building as much as flying and wanted to learn how to build a real airplane from scratch. Good luck. Rick H On 1/27/06, Carl Vought wrote: Hi Carl Loar...I have had pretty much the same experience. I waited too late in life to start my Piet(s), but the timing was dictated by the passage of the legislation regarding Sport Pilots. I've got two and I doubt I'll ever fly either one, so mine are for sale too. This getting old is great for the independence it brings, but the health issues suck!!!...Carl Vought ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet for sale again Greetings All, It's been a while since I have posted, although I still love reading the posts all of you put in here. Last year, because of my health, I decided to try to sell my piet project. I put it on Ebay and got a buyer but he backed out after the auction was over. This left me mixed feelings, great I still have it and POed because he blew others off that were bidding also. Anyway, I have decided again that as much as I want to finish it and fly it, I'm not physically capable anymore of doing that. So, I have decided to ask in here first if anyone is looking for a project that needs work,( been in the hanger for two years now) and looking rough, but it has a good corvair on it with prop, all instruments, horrible paint job, but has great potential to give someone a great finishing project and years of fun flying. I will have to dig out some pics of it, but some old pics of when I was building it can be found here, http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage1.html I am asking 3500$ for it. The buyer will have to go and pull the wings and trailer it home. I would rather see it bought here than on ebay so I will wait a while before going that route. It is currently hangered at Betz airfield, Blissfield Michigan... about 30miles nw of Toledo, OH. Take care all Carl Loar -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: new Piet builders
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Welcome, Steve-- I'm just starting a GN 1 Aircamper here in Portland, Maine. Stop by when you get back home. Alan Lyscars Potland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 5:43 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: new Piet builders > > Hi Everybody. > > I'm a new as yet unstarted builder gathering information. I live in > Jonesport Maine close to the New Brunswick Canada Border. I'm currently > staying in Ontario Oregon. I would welcome the chance to see a project up > close, anybody in the Idaho, Oregon area? > > Best regards > Steve G > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
hi i just started a tube fuse, i bought mild steel tubing locally and i have about 50.oo dollars in the tubing im gas welding it.i bought .049 wall and it weighs about 60 lbs.032 moly weighs in at about 28 lbs but will set you back about 350 bucks plus shipping tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Ceiling
This brings up an interesting question. If you get up to "absolute cieling", and you stall. If the air that you are in is too thin to support lift for normal flight, how can it be thick enough to "catch" you? Do you continue down without control? Will your airspeed exceed Vne before you can reach thick enough air to "catch" you? Hmmmmm. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ceiling Last summer we had NX18235 to 10,000+ msl. This was with an A-65 and a climb prop. At 10,500 it was still climbing at 100+ fpm. The test pilot wasn't dressed for the temperatures to continue any further. Temps at altitude were estimated to be 45 - 50 deg. F. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ceiling was Westach gauges In a message dated 1/27/2006 9:00:11 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: So on a 90 degree day the density altitude is around 10,500 ft. and you are still on the ground! And you're not even in the mountains yet. Rick, That's why I'm searching for the Absolute Ceiling - not the Service Ceiling. The Absolute Ceiling is the point where the wing is at the Critical Angle of Attack the wing will stall if any more altitude is attempted. In addition to the EGT and CHT instruments, I installed a mixture control to keep the engine happy in the thin air. Until I conclude these test flights, I wouldn't even attempt to get my plane off the runway at your elevation, under those conditions. I will certainly report to the group here, the results of the tests. I'll have my video camera with me. My field elevation is 1360 msl, and It feels like I'm on the edge of space up there !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Dallas" <BEC176(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Ceiling
Date: Jan 28, 2006
It's not so much that your wings will not produce enough lift on our favorite little airplane to get you as high as you want...If your engine can't breath enough to make the power to get you to this "altitude" it's a moot point. Even Turbo charged engines start to drop off with altitude. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but mine will never see class A airspace. Too darn much equipment required and too darn cold. Jim Dallas ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans<mailto:waltdak(at)verizon.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ceiling This brings up an interesting question. If you get up to "absolute cieling", and you stall. If the air that you are in is too thin to support lift for normal flight, how can it be thick enough to "catch" you? Do you continue down without control? Will your airspeed exceed Vne before you can reach thick enough air to "catch" you? Hmmmmm. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal<mailto:gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ceiling Last summer we had NX18235 to 10,000+ msl. This was with an A-65 and a climb prop. At 10,500 it was still climbing at 100+ fpm. The test pilot wasn't dressed for the temperatures to continue any further. Temps at altitude were estimated to be 45 - 50 deg. F. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com<mailto:Rcaprd(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ceiling was Westach gauges In a message dated 1/27/2006 9:00:11 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: So on a 90 degree day the density altitude is around 10,500 ft. and you are still on the ground! And you're not even in the mountains yet. Rick, That's why I'm searching for the Absolute Ceiling - not the Service Ceiling. The Absolute Ceiling is the point where the wing is at the Critical Angle of Attack the wing will stall if any more altitude is attempted. In addition to the EGT and CHT instruments, I installed a mixture control to keep the engine happy in the thin air. Until I conclude these test flights, I wouldn't even attempt to get my plane off the runway at your elevation, under those conditions. I will certainly report to the group here, the results of the tests. I'll have my video camera with me. My field elevation is 1360 msl, and It feels like I'm on the edge of space up there !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy
Date: Jan 28, 2006
I don't know about Bernard, but I did about three years before Lindberg died...and I'm very proud of that. Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 6:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy Just wondering -- does anyone know if Bernard Pietenpol ever met Charles Lindbergh? They were both from Minnesota and so I was just wondering if anyone ever heard of them meeting or corresponding at one time...would be kind of neat if they did and to be able to document such a connection. Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fuel cells in Piets/GN-1
Mich, I have a fuel pump in the system because I want fuel pressure to the carb on final. My fuse tank is on same plane (level) as the engine with the sump about the same level as the carb. My cabane tank does not run directly to the carb (S&S shorty), which is underneath the engine, so when the main fuse tank is low it has gravity to feed from the cabane to the main tank where the fuel gauge my only sender is located. I see the stock fuel pump and the electric as insurance. In reality, I agree, that I would not need fuel pumps. The additional weight is not a factor, but I have the assurance that fuel will be there at the carb at all times. Gene -----Original Message----- >From: MICHAEL SILVIUS <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> >Sent: Jan 28, 2006 11:08 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel cells in Piets/GN-1 > > >Gene: > >Are you running a top mounted carb? if not why the fuel pumps? >It was my impression we could run gravity fed w/a Corvair in a Piet setup as >per WW, below the engine. >Are the pumps necessary because of the fuel cell you are using? >what am I missing here? > >kind regards: >Michael Silvius >Scarborough, Maine. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Beenenga" <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net> > > This fuel system feeds my Corvair through both the stock fuel pump which >also has an electric pump as both back up and extra boost that is switched >on for final approach. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy
Mike, Well,,,We'd love to hear the story. : ) walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: bike.mike To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy I don't know about Bernard, but I did about three years before Lindberg died...and I'm very proud of that. Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 6:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy Just wondering -- does anyone know if Bernard Pietenpol ever met Charles Lindbergh? They were both from Minnesota and so I was just wondering if anyone ever heard of them meeting or corresponding at one time...would be kind of neat if they did and to be able to document such a connection. Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol logo.......
Fellow Pieter's Another perplexing comment from the village idiot.............. Has there been a logo designed for the pietenpol besides just the name? Seems to me that several aircraft decals can be purchased from various aircraft suppliers. So hence the question....do we as pietenpoler's have a designed logo? Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Mike, Well,,,We'd love to hear the story. : ) Walt Evans NX140DL It was the spring of '69 and I was working on an instrument ticket on the GI bill at San Fernando airport in L.A., now long closed and sitting under a Costco. The FBO was run by Tom Ryan who, among a lot of other pluses and minuses, was the brother-in-law of the newly inaugurated President. There was also a large contingent of warbirds at the airport. We got a steady stream of famous pilots, not so famous pilots, drug smugglers, Secret Service agents and so on coming through the lounge because of the connections and the great coffee. I was debriefing with my CFII when one of the wealthier warbird owners came in, accompanied by a very tall, slender, very distinguished-looking, white-haired gentleman. My instructor knew the warbird owner so went over to talk, then waved to me to join them. When I got to them, My CFII said, "Mike, meet Charles Lindberg." It took me a bit to realize he meant THE Charles Lindberg, the Lone Eagle himself. I'm afraid I gushed like a kid. (I was 22.) A week or so later, I told my dad, whose personal hero as a kid was Lindy, about the meeting. To this day, nearly forty years later, he doesn't believe me. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy
Date: Jan 28, 2006
On August 4, 1982 my friend and I stopped at Cherry Grove, Minnesota to visit Mr. Pietenpol (we always called him "Mr. Pietenpol"). We were on our way home from Oshkosh in my old 1978 VW Diesel Rabbit, the engine of which greatly interested Mr. Pietenpol. Perhaps he was thinking of converting it for aircraft use! At that time he was experiencing pain from a earlier hip replacement, but proved to be a most interesting man with a delightful sense of humor. Roy (my friend) and I remember that visit clearly. Mr. Pietenpol never mentioned Charles Lindbergh, but he did talk about other aviation personalities from the past such as Gene Shank, Weston Farmer, Don Finke, Ed Heath, etc. Mostly, he lamented the fact that so many of his old acquaintances had passed on, but there was no hint that he knew Lindbergh personally. We drove out to his airfield near Cherry Grove and he showed us his Corvair-powered Air Camper. We pushed it out of the hangar and took some pictures. He said he wished he could fly it, but his bad hip made it too difficult to get in or out of the cockpit. I took what might be some of the last, or the last, photographs of him with his airplane. If anyone is interested, I can post to the group a couple of these photos which I treasure because of the great memories they evoke. The thought that Bernard Pietenpol and Charles Lindbergh may have met is intriguing. Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy
In a message dated 1/28/2006 9:31:33 PM Central Standard Time, grhans@cable-lynx.net writes: If anyone is interested, I can post to the group a couple of these photos which I treasure because of the great memories they evoke. Graham, I think those pictures would be most interesting for the group to view !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 28, 2006
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Lindy
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: B.H.Pietenpol, August 4, 1982
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Group, As requested, here is one of the photos of Mr. Pietenpol with his airplane taken at Cherry Grove, Minnesota on August 4, 1982. Graham Hansen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: B.H. Pietenpol & G.J. Hansen, August 4, 1982
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Group, This is a photo I treasure because I was in the presence of the Master in his back yard at Cherry Grove, Minnesota. It was taken by my friend Roy Wadson, who also built a Pietenpol. August 4, 1982. Graham Hansen Mail0014.JPG to determine how attachments are handled. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: B.H.Pietenpol & his airplane on August 4, 1982
Date: Jan 28, 2006
Group, Another photo of Mr. Pietenpol with his airplane after we had rolled it out of the hangar at Cherry Grove, Minnesota during the afternoon of August 4, 1982. This airplane displayed neat, careful workmanship and it was obviously built by a master craftsman. Note the Corvair van belonging to Mr. Pietenpol. He had me drive it to and from the airport because his hip was bothering him. (There were quite a few Corvairs at the airport--some without engines!) Meeting BHP was a memorable experience for us. Graham Hansen Mail0015.JPG to determine how attachments are handled. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: B.H.Pietenpol, August 4, 1982
Graham, Thanks for sharing. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Hansen To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: B.H.Pietenpol, August 4, 1982 Group, As requested, here is one of the photos of Mr. Pietenpol with his airplane taken at Cherry Grove, Minnesota on August 4, 1982. Graham Hansen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jan and Sam Marinucci" <jansam(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: B.H.Pietenpol & his airplane on August 4, 1982
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Graham, Really enjoyed seeing the pictures, thanks for posting them. Sam Marinucci Pietenpol 115SM (reserved number) 2 more years to completion (I hope) . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: B.H.Pietenpol, August 4, 1982
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Agreed! Thanks VERY much. JM ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: B.H.Pietenpol, August 4, 1982 Graham, Thanks for sharing. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2006
From: JR <rocca(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: B.H.Pietenpol & his airplane on August 4, 1982
Jan and Sam Marinucci wrote: > Graham, > Really enjoyed seeing the pictures, thanks for posting them. > Sam Marinucci > Pietenpol 115SM (reserved number) > 2 more years to completion (I hope) > > > > > > > > > > . > Graham- Dito on the appreciation of Pics John Pittsburgh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Subject: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
I can't see the pictures of Bernard that were mentioned -- how do I access them? Great feedback -- was just a goofy thought I had the other day wile watching that show about Lindbergh on the History Channel. I remember after I got my pilot's license back in '78, my grandmother (about 88 at that time) said the only person she'd ever go flying with would be Lindy -- and he was dead four years or so by then! Some months after his Atlantic flight Lindbergh flew over La Crosse with the "Spirit" and waved -- didn't touch down. I wasn't there -- I'm "only" 51 yrs.but I saw an old newspaper article about it... I would imagine that given enough power the Aircamper wing is capable of getting to extreme altitudes...would be interesting to see how high a 100 or 200 hp turbocharged engine could lift an Aircamper...Hmmm....a contest...? Or how about Piet races? We could have a Model A class, a Lycoming class, Continental class and an "unlimited class" -- only rule is that it has to be a Piet airframe. Maybe a "race" from Brodhead west to Monroe and then back to Brodhead...might be fun...each participant's departure time (at say, one minute intervals) and return time is carefully noted and shortest elapsed time wins. The Monroe airport could be the turn around point, for example, or some other landmark -- everyone on their honor. Or we could have a lookout posted to note which planes made it to the turn-around point. The key would be to keep it simple, like the airplanes! The Great American Pietenpol Air Rally! ? Whad'ya think? Well, just another goofy idea that might be a fun event for Brodhead on Saturday or Sunday morning. I should probably just stick to building my own Piet...hey, I got the last landing gear/lift strut bracket installed on the fuselage yesterday -- so now I can get it up on the wheels! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Subject: Re: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
In a message dated 1/29/2006 11:03:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, TBYH(at)aol.com writes: Or how about Piet races? We could have a Model A class, a Lycoming class, Continental class and an "unlimited class" A poker run might make a better venue? Max Davis NX101XW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Well, lets see the coarse would be the traffic pattern and three laps is about the endurance of most piet pilots....At least they would be close to the spectators for a long long time. Unlike the air races at Reno where you can only see them for a few seconds each lap. The old article about the piet built by Harold Hawk in Texas claims he race it. "In 1938, at Amarillo, he [Hawk] and the plane entered an air race and placed third, out of a field of nine, with an average speed of 105 mph." Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally" In a message dated 1/29/2006 11:03:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, TBYH(at)aol.com writes: Or how about Piet races? We could have a Model A class, a Lycoming class, Continental class and an "unlimited class" A poker run might make a better venue? Max Davis NX101XW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)AOL.COM
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Subject: Re: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
Chris, You are probably right. I'm just too old to realize it. Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol logo.......
Date: Jan 29, 2006
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I modified one that I saw years ago by Frank Pavliga originally ( I think) I had it digitized so I could have it embroidered on baseball caps. See attached pictue. I also painted it on the side of my plane with a swoosh stripe. Steve E PS I still have hats for sale $20 shipped. I hope to make it to Brodhead this year and sell the rest. The plan is to fly the stinson and the pietenpol... look for the big E on the tails! Stevee ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth M. Heide Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo....... Fellow Pieter's Another perplexing comment from the village idiot.............. Has there been a logo designed for the pietenpol besides just the name? Seems to me that several aircraft decals can be purchased from various aircraft suppliers. So hence the question....do we as pietenpoler's have a designed logo? Ken Heide Fargo, ND ________________________________ <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D38381/%20ylc=3DX3oDMTEzcGlrdGY5BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc 2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDMWF1dG9z/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/index.html%20> . Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo.......
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Steve: Those are real nice looking hats. Any chance that I can get you to send me one? If you tell us your address I'll put a check in the mail. kind regards: Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine m.silvius(at)att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo....... I modified one that I saw years ago by Frank Pavliga originally ( I think) I had it digitized so I could have it embroidered on baseball caps. See attached pictue. I also painted it on the side of my plane with a swoosh stripe. Steve E PS I still have hats for sale $20 shipped. I hope to make it to Brodhead this year and sell the rest. The plan is to fly the stinson and the pietenpol. look for the big E on the tails! Stevee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Six New Email Lists / Forums At Matronics!
Dear Listers, Its my pleasure to announce the addition of six new Email List / Forums to the aviation line up at Matronics! These new lists support all the usual features you've come to know and love from the Matronics Email List including full integration with the All New Web BBS Forums Site!! The new Lists include: LycomingEngines-List Textron/Lycoming Engines RotaxEngines-List Rotax Engine for Aircraft M14PEngines-List Vendenyev M14P Radial Engine MurphyMoose-List Murphy Moose Aircraft Allegro-List Allegro 2000, a Czech-built, Rotax-powered Aircraft Falco-List Sequoia Aircraft's Falco Experimental To sign up for any or all of the new Lists, surf over to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form and follow the instructions: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Don't forget to check out the All New Web BBS Forum now available along with all of the usual message and archive viewing tools at the Matronics Email Lists site. Surf over to the following URL for information on the BBS Forum: http://forums.matronics.com Enjoy the new Lists! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
Hey Graham thanks a million for the pics.I had no idea I was that close to Royalty when I met you last year.Your the greatest! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 29, 2006
Subject: [ Graham J. Hansen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Graham J. Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Bernard H. Pietenpol http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/grhans@cable-lynx.net.12.29.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo.......
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Same here. If you'd let a couple go before Brodhead I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8082#8082 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: pictures of Corvair Piet
Date: Jan 30, 2006
There are a couple of pictures of Bernard Pietenpol and his "last original", Corvair-powered Piet, on the photoshare at http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/grhans@cable-lynx.net.12.29.2006/index.html The oldest application of the Corvair aero conversion is in the Pietenpol airframe... 40 years, I believe. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally"
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Fred and others, For quite some time, attachments have been available to those list members who are registered for "real time" postings. Those who opted for the "digest" version missed out on the attachments. But just recently, the matronics lists have a new feature - the BBS Web Forum. it's basically the same as the old List, but it is in a slightly different format, and it allows attachments to be viewed by all. You can access this format here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=3D7&sid=3D2ed4da73b54366540c0d90 5c0d06a3a6 Of course, it's nice to have photos submitted to photoshare, because they are all stored in one location - easier to go back and find a photo later. Bill ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TBYH(at)aol.com Sent: January 29, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bernard Max altitude; Piet "Rally" I can't see the pictures of Bernard that were mentioned -- how do I access them? Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hat Mania!
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Well not really, but some of you asked, so forgive the blatant spam... If you would like a new hat before Brodhead 2006, specify the color, Black, Green, Red, or Gold Include your check for $20 and return address to: Steve Eldredge 2810 E Canyon Rd Spanish Fork, UT 84660 And I'll have it too you ASAP! These are the 75th Pietenpol Anniversary Edition. (cool gold thread included) I'll take any questions offline @ Steve(at)byu.edu Thanks, Stevee PS Chuck G... I'll take you up on your swap hat for video offer! Send me your address to me and I'll drop another in the mail to you! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol logo....... Same here. If you'd let a couple go before Brodhead I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=8082#8082 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol logo.......
Steve, I would be interested in the purchase of a few caps...Can you list the mailing address to send a check. Thanks, Ken Heide Fargo, ND Steve Eldredge wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I modified one that I saw years ago by Frank Pavliga originally ( I think) I had it digitized so I could have it embroidered on baseball caps. See attached pictue. I also painted it on the side of my plane with a swoosh stripe. Steve E PS I still have hats for sale $20 shipped. I hope to make it to Brodhead this year and sell the rest. The plan is to fly the stinson and the pietenpol look for the big E on the tails! Stevee --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth M. Heide Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo....... Fellow Pieter's Another perplexing comment from the village idiot.............. Has there been a logo designed for the pietenpol besides just the name? Seems to me that several aircraft decals can be purchased from various aircraft suppliers. So hence the question....do we as pietenpoler's have a designed logo? Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Good observations Mike, I would say my experience mirrors yours. My project took considerably longer than yours (8 years, although for 2 years I never touched the Piet while I designed and built my house). Eventually I just accepted that whatever timeframe I thought I could hit, I multiplied it by 2 and it was always pretty close. Even after a forced landing damaged the plane considerably, I made an estimate of 8 months of work to get it flying again because I really thought I could do it in 4 months. It took 8 months. The biggest source of frustration for me was having to remake a part when my first attempt didn't come out right. Eventually I came to expect it and began ordering about half again as much material as I needed (that was a big source of frustration - I would order enough material to make a part, then screw it up and have to wait while more material came in. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty must have loved me). Just chalk up such experiences to education and enjoy the process. I'm going to start building a kit plane this fall. It will be interesting to see how a kit progresses compared to the real challenge of scratchbuilding. I'm estimating about 4 years to finish the airplane. I wonder if it will really take 8 years again? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
Jack's post is very sound about having to order more materials after botching a job on the first set of materials. The encouraging news is that as you get better and better at making steel fittings, stack drilling parts, bending, filing, and welding, I found that my scrap rate went down to nearly zero as time passed. When trying to learn the daunting task (or so it seemed to me at the time) of fabric covering, rib stitching, and finishing, I asked a very good friend and WWII veteran at the airport "how long will it take before I'm good at this ?" and he told me that I'd be really good at fabric work about the time the fabric work is completed ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net>
Subject: Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
Date: Jan 30, 2006
We retirees have a solution to this...Don't bother to estimate!..Just keep on keepinon....Carl ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation.
Hello Jack, I will give my point of view, I just finished a kit plane a few months ago, The time (hours to build) the kit seller estimates in his advertisement has to be multipied: By 3. If you are really good in building, multiply by 2. If you want a "show winner" plane by 4 or 5! If you are lucky to have a hard working helper(s), his hours helping will count as such (your hours by 2) If he keeps talking (and both drink beer) divide YOUR single hours in half :-) Just one advise: The few mistakes we made when building our kit, were because "that step" looked so simple that we screw it, Double check the instructions, plans and messurements before the final cut, or drill or rivet or glue (depend in type of construction you are doing). In some kits plans you have enough info to build the spare part, in some others you need to order a new part and this takes some time... Good luck and lots of patience Saludos Gary Gower. "Phillips, Jack" wrote: Good observations Mike, I would say my experience mirrors yours. My project took considerably longer than yours (8 years, although for 2 years I never touched the Piet while I designed and built my house). Eventually I just accepted that whatever timeframe I thought I could hit, I multiplied it by 2 and it was always pretty close. Even after a forced landing damaged the plane considerably, I made an estimate of 8 months of work to get it flying again because I really thought I could do it in 4 months. It took 8 months. The biggest source of frustration for me was having to remake a part when my first attempt didnt come out right. Eventually I came to expect it and began ordering about half again as much material as I needed (that was a big source of frustration - I would order enough material to make a part, then screw it up and have to wait while more material came in. Aircraft Spruce and Specialty must have loved me). Just chalk up such experiences to education and enjoy the process. Im going to start building a kit plane this fall. It will be interesting to see how a kit progresses compared to the real challenge of scratchbuilding. Im estimating about 4 years to finish the airplane. I wonder if it will really take 8 years again? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike --------------------------------- Bring words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jan and Sam Marinucci" <jansam(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Time estimates
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Mike, You're absolutely right about the time it takes to fabricate a part. I went through enough steel for three Air Campers. This Piet project was supposed to take 3 years....Boy was I wrong! I'm in my 5th year now and still probably have 2 years left on it. At least I hope I can complete it in 2 years and fly it to Brodhead. My patient and very understanding wife still keeps asking me when will it be finished and my stock answer still is "3 more years, Honey". Sam Marinucci N115SM (reserved number) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: "Scott S." <covertspecialops(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
I think it's because time estimates don't include things like moving the car so you'll have room to reposition the fuselage, or moving the riding mower with a dead battery so you can then move the car so you can then move the fuse so it'll be closer to your tool box which contains every drill size known to man...except for the one you lost and are having to take a trip to Lowe's for. It's all that kinda crap that frustrates me on projects, where simply drilling a hole or gluing a part becomes twelve distinct steps totally unrelated to the task at hand. Scott in TN On 1/30/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > > Jack's post is very sound about having to order more materials after > botching a job on the first set of materials. > > The encouraging news is that as you get better and better at making steel > fittings, stack drilling parts, bending, filing, > and welding, I found that my scrap rate went down to nearly zero as time > passed. > > When trying to learn the daunting task (or so it seemed to me at the time) > of fabric covering, rib stitching, and finishing, > I asked a very good friend and WWII veteran at the airport "how long will > it take before I'm good at this ?" and he told > me that I'd be really good at fabric work about the time the fabric work > is > completed ! > > Mike C. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Time estimates
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2006
The second greatest thrill known to man is flying. Landing is the first. The above is 10 fold in your own home build Pietenpol, no matter how long it takes to build. Building and flying your own airplane is a privilege only known to very few. Even in the current EAA only a small percentage of it's members have achieved this. Don't get discouraged about how long it takes, enjoy the experience, become part of the few. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Subject: Progress?
Well, today marks the first day of my fifth year of building Pietra. And she's coming along all right. It was easy and quick to build the fuse and the tailfeathers. Others have reported that it took them a year and a half to build t he wings. I'm retired, can spend a lot ot time on t he project, but even so, I have to confirm that it takes at least a year and a half to build the wings! I went to William Wynne's seminar at Hanford, CA last year. I thought that it was very worthwhile.and I do have a Corvair engine ready for installation and the final details, such as intake manifold, exhaust piping, etc. I'm planning on using a single Bing carburetor, a take-off from a Jabiru 3300. The woodwork is all done, except for fasteners, etc. for the hardware.Bernard's hinges turned out to be a real problem for me, I made several sets, and did end up wit h a pretty good set, but decided to build a set of U pieces that didn't require any welding. I used piano hinges for the ailerons. If I were starting to build again, I'd use these for the tail feathers too. I used good Fir and AS&S Basswood plywood, and weight hasn't been an issue. The fuse is 71 lbs, tailfeathers are 14pounds, spars are 10 pounds each, and all the ribs for one wing come in at only 5 pounds. I used full dimensions throughout, but would reduce thicknesses a little if I did another one. I've got the controls to do, then the covering. I do believe that Pietra could be flying this summer, but I'm not a flyer, so there's no real incentive to go faster. I love the airport environment, and the hangar, and with the big door open, I can see the snow-capped mountains in behind the approach to LAX. The big news here is that the county has paid for a big pile of ballistic shielding materials which we are putting up around the hangar to protect us from all the bullets fflying around(43 holes!). See you all at Brodhead, Carl Lekven, Compton Airport, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: time to build
I so enjoyed building my Piet because I never guesstimated how long a task would take. Worked on it nearly every day. Some days just didn't feel like it,,,so I didn't. Really enjoyed the rainy or snowy days where you were locked in your shop doing the thing that you loved best. Never had a clock in the shop. Never punched a clock in the shop. Never logged my hours in a building log in the shop. never forget the saying..... "Build to build, Don't build to fly" A friend of mine, Bob Cook, who built the most beautiful Fisher Celebrity you've ever seen, said that he took the time to do a special paint scheme on his plane,,,even though it took an additional year! That set my head straight as far as building. He's the one who got me into building wooden airplanes. My second project was a Pietenpol. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Subject: piet for sale again
Hi Carl, Is this plane still for sale? I would be MOST interested in it. $3,500.00 is all? Why so cheap? Please let me know all the specifics. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:19 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Pietenpol-List: piet for sale again Greetings All, It's been a while since I have posted, although I still love reading the posts all of you put in here. Last year, because of my health, I decided to try to sell my piet project. I put it on Ebay and got a buyer but he backed out after the auction was over. This left me mixed feelings, great I still have it and POed because he blew others off that were bidding also. Anyway, I have decided again that as much as I want to finish it and fly it, I'm not physically capable anymore of doing that. So, I have decided to ask in here first if anyone is looking for a project that needs work,( been in the hanger for two years now) and looking rough, but it has a good corvair on it with prop, all instruments, horrible paint job, but has great potential to give someone a great finishing project and years of fun flying. I will have to dig out some pics of it, but some old pics of when I was building it can be found here, http://members.core.com/~skycarl/pietpage1.html I am asking 3500$ for it. The buyer will have to go and pull the wings and trailer it home. I would rather see it bought here than on ebay so I will wait a while before going that route. It is currently hangered at Betz airfield, Blissfield Michigan... about 30miles nw of Toledo, OH. Take care all Carl Loar ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: Jan 30, 2006
> My question is.....who out their is building wing tanks for sale in our piets? >Or...is there a place where one can order one specific for the piet? Are >other members adding extra fuel tanks more extended flight? if so describe and >inform if you would please. If you are interested, my center section wing tank is nearing completion as we speak (er - write.) I am doing a fiberglass tank with internal baffles, flush mounted filler cap and electric (universal type) fuel level sender. So as to save time on this list, you may view it on my builder's log at http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Re: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Don't forget Steve Eldrege built his in two years, is still is married and has lots young kids... It can be done just not by me 5 years into my 3 year project................. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Builder's 'Time Estimates vs Reality---An Observation Guys-- in reading some of the posts about starting new construction, I'd like to share what my thesis would be if I were to work on one for my 4.5 year Piet building experience. I think the title of my thesis would be: "Estimating The Building Time of an Experimental Aircraft: Multiply All Estimates by a Minimum Factor of Two." I would get so frustrated when I would set a goal to do a certain task in say four hours and it would ultimately take 8 hours. If I figured it would take about 45 minutes to make a fitting it would end up taking 90. . After a certain point in the project I became very aware of the source of my aggravation, stress, and anxiety and it was clearly attributable to me not being able to fully admit that whatever I thought a good estimate would be was off by a factor of two. After I overcame this habit of estimating time frames totally out of sync with reality, my denial, frustration, and aggravation were reduced greatly ! Also in my thesis I would add add that whatever job you are attempting to accomplish (and this can apply to working on your car, house, or airplane) will automatically take 2 to 3 times longer than normal if you consume beer while attempting the work. This particular theory does not apply to plumbing jobs around the house. In the case of estimating the time for a plumbing job you must apply my first theory that every job will take twice as long as you'd expect it to take, then again by a factor of one if you are consuming beverages, and then, just because of its inherently detestable nature, by another factor of two. Keep building out there ! Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Progress?
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Hey Carl, Glad to hear of your progress. I like many others have many family issues that have precluded my starting on the Piet. I have been lurking for about three/four years or so. Sometimes, this is one of the few good things that come my way just reading how everyone is doing. MY garage is only lacking the countertops, and the cabinets need finish painting. Other then that, I have all the wood in the rafters, a Corvair tore down, and just need the metal as far as parts go to make all the brackets. I have a wife that is disabled from back problems/surgeries, but I have the hope of you who have gone before me, to assure me I will accomplish this one day. Keep up the posts. For those of you that don't know Carl, he has probably forgotten more about planes then most of us will ever learn about them. Good job Carl, I'll try and get up to Compton in late February. When is the next meeting for your club? Doug Blackburn Doug/Elizabeth Blackburn Yucaipa California www.inlandsloperebels.com<http://www.inlandsloperebels.com/> AMA #3761 W.W. conversion manual, #3202,#5782 www.flycorvair.com<http://www.flycorvair.com/> ----- Original Message ----- From: ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com<mailto:ANNCARLEK(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress? Well, today marks the first day of my fifth year of building Pietra. And she's coming along all right. It was easy and quick to build the fuse and the tailfeathers. Others have reported that it took them a year and a half to build t he wings. I'm retired, can spend a lot ot time on t he project, but even so, I have to confirm that it takes at least a year and a half to build the wings! I went to William Wynne's seminar at Hanford, CA last year. I thought that it was very worthwhile.and I do have a Corvair engine ready for installation and the final details, such as intake manifold, exhaust piping, etc. I'm planning on using a single Bing carburetor, a take-off from a Jabiru 3300. The woodwork is all done, except for fasteners, etc. for the hardware.Bernard's hinges turned out to be a real problem for me, I made several sets, and did end up wit h a pretty good set, but decided to build a set of U pieces that didn't require any welding. I used piano hinges for the ailerons. If I were starting to build again, I'd use these for the tail feathers too. I used good Fir and AS&S Basswood plywood, and weight hasn't been an issue. The fuse is 71 lbs, tailfeathers are 14pounds, spars are 10 pounds each, and all the ribs for one wing come in at only 5 pounds. I used full dimensions throughout, but would reduce thicknesses a little if I did another one. I've got the controls to do, then the covering. I do believe that Pietra could be flying this summer, but I'm not a flyer, so there's no real incentive to go faster. I love the airport environment, and the hangar, and with the big door open, I can see the snow-capped mountains in behind the approach to LAX. The big news here is that the county has paid for a big pile of ballistic shielding materials which we are putting up around the hangar to protect us from all the bullets fflying around(43 holes!). See you all at Brodhead, Carl Lekven, Compton Airport, CA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.matronics.com/contribution> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2006
Subject: [ Jack Phillips ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jack Phillips Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Wire Wheels http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com.01.30.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2006
Subject: Re: pictures of Corvair Piet
In a message dated 1/30/2006 8:34:59 AM Central Standard Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: The oldest application of the Corvair aero conversion is in the Pietenpol airframe... 40 years, I believe. The oldest application of the Ford Model A Engine aero conversion is the Pietenpol airframe...77 years ago, I believe. The Grandpappy of Homebuilt Aviation !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: Howard Goodwin <goodwinds(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: piet for sale again
Jim: I am interested in your Piet.....what is the stage of the engine at this point? Howard Goodwin Washington, North Carolina ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: Howard Goodwin <goodwinds(at)cox.net>
Subject: Carl Loar,Piet for sale:
Carl Loar: please get in touch me me at 252 944 5496 Howard Goodwin Washington, North Carolina ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Cessna fuel valve
Date: Jan 31, 2006
Howdy, amigos- Have you ever taken something apart and then realized you might not be able to reassemble it? My Pietenpol has a Cessna fuel shutoff valve on the outlet of the fuel tank, part no. 0716111-5. It's a simple plug valve, quarter-turn. There is a spring-loaded nylon wiper that rides against the side of the plug to provide resistance to turning, and after disassembling it I realized that it will be tricky to hold that nylon piece back against the spring in order to re-insert the plug. There is probably a nifty trick or tool to hold the spring in place, but if none of you has any ideas, I think I'll try very thin "fire wire" type fishing line through the fuel outlet hole, around the spring a couple of turns, to see if I can pull it in with that. Has to be very thin line because the clearance between the spring and the bore that it rides in is pretty tight. Mommy told me not to take things apart, but in this particular case I'm sure glad I did because the spring had some rust on it and there was sediment and crud in the spring pocket. I have my "Fuel Lube" right here and I'm ready to put this puppy back together! Thanks for any help you guys might have. Oh, and you might be interested to know that this valve, new, lists for $1,660. I was astounded to learn that bit of info when I tried a Google search for info on it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: time estimates
Date: Jan 31, 2006
As an engineer, I have found that my main problem is that I think too much. I second-guess everything I see in the plans or on the airplane. Rather than trust that a 75-year-old design has pretty much had all the little bugs worked out of it, and that a master builder (Corky) already crossed all the little bridges that had to be crossed to finish 41CC, I have to sit and think about how to do things differently or "better", sketch them out, start fabricating little test pieces of things... only to find out that Bernard and Corky knew what they were doing. If you "build it to the plans" you'll save yourself lots of time, if getting in the air is your objective! One little example. I had the oil sump off the A65 on 41CC and was letting the paint dry on the one I bought to replace the damaged one. Meanwhile, I started fitting up a new fuel hose between the gascolator and carb. Hmmm... I know I made this new hose the same length as the old one, but there sure isn't any need for it to be that long and I can eliminate two 90 degree elbows; one at the carb and one at the gascolator, and clean up the fuel flow. So after reinstalling the oil sump, it suddenly becomes clear why Corky used the two elbows and the longer hose... because the oil sump is smack-dab up against the carb and you can't get to the gascolator in a straight line. And so it goes ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 31, 2006
Subject: Re: time estimates
Oscar, I'm NOT an engineer. Just an old fashioned tinkerer. I was the kid in the neiborhood that they all brought their skates, bicycles etc to have repaired. Then when we reached the Model T age my yard was full of junk cars. That's the way I grew up. When I entered college I really wanted to get on that engineer wagon but was afraid of math. My high school math teachers could never get through to me with all those signs and cosigns, quadratics and stuff, so I decided to become an ordinary old teacher. Got a surprise, I became an ordinary young soldier. What I'm trying to get around and say is: If you want to take everything apart to know what goes on inside, why don't you bring 41CC back home and take 311CC back and finish it and believe me you will have plenty of inside information. I'm still sniffing those fumes Tracy. See, just like an old teacher, trying to give instruction. Corky Changing his parking brake design today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: time estimates
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hey Corky, Glad to hear somebody else thinks a Piet could use a parking brake. I don't have one, but wish I did. Little did I know when I built this plane that the hangar it would live in is on a pretty severe slope. If I park it across the slope, shut the engine down and try to get out of it, half the time the tailwheel will break loose and I've got about =BC second to decide if I can jump out in time to grab the tail before it swings into the hangar, or dive back into the cockpit and get on the brakes to stop the swing. Then, if I chose the latter, I'm stuck until somebody can come help me. Good thing I put an Ah-Ooooga horn on the plane so I can call for help! Sure wish I had a parking brake. Jack Hangin' on the hillside in North Carolina -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time estimates Oscar, I'm NOT an engineer. Just an old fashioned tinkerer. I was the kid in the neiborhood that they all brought their skates, bicycles etc to have repaired. Then when we reached the Model T age my yard was full of junk cars. That's the way I grew up. When I entered college I really wanted to get on that engineer wagon but was afraid of math. My high school math teachers could never get through to me with all those signs and cosigns, quadratics and stuff, so I decided to become an ordinary old teacher. Got a surprise, I became an ordinary young soldier. What I'm trying to get around and say is: If you want to take everything apart to know what goes on inside, why don't you bring 41CC back home and take 311CC back and finish it and believe me you will have plenty of inside information. I'm still sniffing those fumes Tracy. See, just like an old teacher, trying to give instruction. Corky Changing his parking brake design today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: "Scott S." <covertspecialops(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Peter's Pietenpol website info??
Does anybody know anything about Peter's Pietenpol website? It's one of the best I've seen with construction pics, even has a materials list. It's been down for like two weeks now. Think it's http://www.cpc-world.com. Somebody let me know if I've got it wrong. Scott in TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Peter's Pietenpol website info??
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
It seems to be down Scott. I've had it happen before, hopefully it will be up soon. Jack Does anybody know anything about Peter's Pietenpol website? It's one of the best I've seen with construction pics, even has a materials list. It's been down for like two weeks now. Think it's http://www.cpc-world.com. Somebody let me know if I've got it wrong. Scott in TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: brakes on a Piet
Date: Jan 31, 2006
See, there I go again. I have been thinking about eliminating the parking brakes on 41CC but guess it makes sense to keep 'em. I never used 'em on spam cans and had nothing but trouble with them before... always used tie-downs and chocks for propping. But it does sound like they may be useful at times. One of my 'issues' with them on 41CC is that the operating knobs happen to be right by the pilot's knees. Ol' Charlie still winces when he remembers "finding" those knobs with his knees when the plane went on its back. But I'll keep 'em. And Sterling wrote- >I'll post some pictures of my system, IF EVERYONE (including Oscar) >WILL PROMISE NOT TO LAUGH! Hey, compadre- you forget how easy it is to bribe TACOs with cold beverages. I can be persuaded to withhold my comments if you'll make it worth my while... ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!
guys---this is hilarious. This guy has done it all. Kinda reminds me of Jim from Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom show with Marlin Perkins back in the 60's and 70's. Jim was always the guy who was wrestling alligators in shallow puddles while Marlin stood by in his turtleneck calmly describing how Jim was about to die a gruesome death. Mike C. http://miva.islandbazaar.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AA1&Category_Code=ray ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Mike there are a lot of folks on the list now who didn't get to share in the wonders of "The Fisherman's" Pietenpol project. For those that weren't on the list a few years ago, this fellow was building a Pietenpol. He was constantly asking for advice, and then explaining why the advice he got wasn't worth listening to. He built his plane with the cheapest material he could find, and was racing through his project with the intent of using it for charter operations in Belize, when he sort of ran into a brick wall with the need to learn to weld. Suddenly he just dropped off the list. Look in the archives under "fisherman". Some of it is just downright funny. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Fisherman Surfaces !!! guys---this is hilarious. This guy has done it all. Kinda reminds me of Jim from Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom show with Marlin Perkins back in the 60's and 70's. Jim was always the guy who was wrestling alligators in shallow puddles while Marlin stood by in his turtleneck calmly describing how Jim was about to die a gruesome death. Mike C. http://miva.islandbazaar.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Cod e=AA1&Category_Code=ray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: time to build
Date: Jan 31, 2006
Further to what Walt Evans said, "Build to build, don't build to fly.", I might add the words of a wise man who said, "To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive, and the true success is to labour." * My Pietenpol was in the works for a total of eleven years, but in reality I probabably spent about two years of spare time on it because it was "shelved" for many of those years for a variety of reasons. After 35 years of flying it, there are lots of great memories of flights made. But there are lots of fond memories of the building process, and these are equally precious. (I often think of my dad who helped me on some of the jobs, and he even got to ride in it afterward!) I guess what I am saying is that the building experience can be the most fun. Evidence of this is found in the fact that many people, myself included, become addicted to creating an airplane and after completing one, embark on another project right away. So don't worry about how long it takes to build your bird. It shouldn't be a race against anything! Keep a record of the hours if you like, but don't let this sort of thing bother you. All of us face deadlines every day; building an airplane is a hobby and deadlines shouldn't enter the picture at all. Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) *Quoted from Neville Shute's book, SLIDE RULE, where he quotes the writer Robert Louis Stevenson who (I think) originated this most apt saying. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: time to build
Graham, Well said! Ain't life grand! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham Hansen To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: time to build Further to what Walt Evans said, "Build to build, don't build to fly.", I might add the words of a wise man who said, "To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive, and the true success is to labour." * My Pietenpol was in the works for a total of eleven years, but in reality I probabably spent about two years of spare time on it because it was "shelved" for many of those years for a variety of reasons. After 35 years of flying it, there are lots of great memories of flights made. But there are lots of fond memories of the building process, and these are equally precious. (I often think of my dad who helped me on some of the jobs, and he even got to ride in it afterward!) I guess what I am saying is that the building experience can be the most fun. Evidence of this is found in the fact that many people, myself included, become addicted to creating an airplane and after completing one, embark on another project right away. So don't worry about how long it takes to build your bird. It shouldn't be a race against anything! Keep a record of the hours if you like, but don't let this sort of thing bother you. All of us face deadlines every day; building an airplane is a hobby and deadlines shouldn't enter the picture at all. Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) *Quoted from Neville Shute's book, SLIDE RULE, where he quotes the writer Robert Louis Stevenson who (I think) originated this most apt saying. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Peter's Pietenpol website info??
Date: Feb 01, 2006
Scott, Just got an email from Peter and he's in Hanoi ,Vietnam on holidays at the moment. Just keep checking back, I'm sure he'll have it up and running again when he gets back. Mike Green Romsey, Victoria AUSTRALIA ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott S. To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peter's Pietenpol website info?? Does anybody know anything about Peter's Pietenpol website? It's one of the best I've seen with construction pics, even has a materials list. It's been down for like two weeks now. Think it's http://www.cpc-world.com. Somebody let me know if I've got it wrong. Scott in TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 31, 2006
Subject: Fisherman
I was there when the dufus surfaced. I would gadly join Marlin Perkins in my safari ware, and root for the crock. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2006
From: "Scott S." <covertspecialops(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Peter's Pietenpol website info??
Thanks for the info. On 1/31/06, Mike Green wrote: > > Scott, > > Just got an email from Peter and he's in Hanoi ,Vietnam on holidays at the > moment. Just keep checking back, I'm sure he'll have it up and running again > when he gets back. > > Mike Green > Romsey, > Victoria > AUSTRALIA > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Scott S. > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:25 AM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Peter's Pietenpol website info?? > > > Does anybody know anything about Peter's Pietenpol website? It's one of > the best I've seen with construction pics, even has a materials list. It's > been down for like two weeks now. Think it's http://www.cpc-world.com. > Somebody let me know if I've got it wrong. > > Scott in TN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
Date: Feb 02, 2006
hi i just started a tube fuse, i bought mild steel tubing locally and i have about 50.oo dollars in the tubing im gas welding it.i bought .049 wall and it weighs about 60 lbs.032 moly weighs in at about 28 lbs but will set you back about 350 bucks plus shipping tom Hi Tom, Can one use mild steel tubing for aircraft building? and Can one weld mild steel tubing to 4130 steel without corossion problems? Thanks, Scott Robison Charleston, IL. Piet Builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires
Date: Feb 02, 2006
Ken, I did check on these tires. I'd use them too if I could figure out a way to mount them to the Cub gear axles and mount my breaks. Any thoughts there? Scott: I too have been searching for a good set of lightweight tundra tires for my piet. Here is what I have come up with. At our local Fleet Farm they carry Carlisle Tires size 18x9.50x8NHS 4 ply tubeless rib TL for $31.99. I like the size and width of these tires and they are not very heavy. If you get a chance to look at these (Carlisle web site ) tell me your thoughts. They look very much like the real aircraft tires with a wide profile and moderate groove channels. Be very interested in what others have to say. Also wondering the weight of complete set-ups of motorcycle tires vs tundra tires?... Ken Heide Fargo, ND Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: hvlp sprayers
Date: Feb 02, 2006
just use a long hose of at least 30' or so. by the time the air gets to the gun it's cooled down substanially. need it cooler?? use a longer hose. my gun has a 30' hose and when you touch thehose near the turbine it's pretty warm. at the gun it's just above ambient temp. DJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 1:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hvlp sprayers Hey, I'm getting ready to start spraying dope and am looking at the hvlp systems because they use less material. I am wondering if the extra heat the turbine produces will cause problems with cooking off the thinner in the dope. also, it seems like there are hvlp guns that use a regular compressor instead of a turbine, which would then not be a problem ??? D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tundra tires or Motorcycle tires
Scott, We might have to purchase the axle stub from fleet farm and weld it in place of the cubs axle. I believe it should work and then apply the rims and fabricate a brake bracket by coping American power sports go-cart brackets attached to the axle. Your thoughts? Ken --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
the pietenpol plans call out for 1025 steel ,mine is .049 wall the plans call for .032, a little extra never hurts tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com
If the glue joints are good--this is worth it just for the set of wing ribs..... PIETENPOL PROJECT =95 $300 =95 FOR SALE =95 Pietenpol Aircamper project. Includes: completed basic fuselage structure (no metal fittings, no seats), completed horiz. stab., elevators, tail and rudder. No fabric covering. Also included is a completed set of wing ribs. All wood is Douglas Fir. Note that fuselage members are =BE=94 x =BE=94 whereas plans call for 1=94 x 1=94. Original builder (not me) said he did it because Fir is stronger than Spruce. You decide =96 I was not comfortable with the reduction. Also, ply on fuselage sides is partially delaminated and should be replaced. Other than that, the workmanship appears straight and good. Located Northeast Florida and must be picked up. =95 Contact Eric Williams - located Jacksonville, FL USA =95 Telephone: 904-221-4787 =95 Posted January 24, 2006 =95 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser =95 Recommend This Ad to a Friend =95 Send a Message ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2006
Mike, Delaminated plywood sides? Sounds like Home depot stuff, could the original builder be your "Fisherman" Hans. Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy@gr c.nasa.gov> To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com 02/02/2006 02:38 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com If the glue joints are good--this is worth it just for the set of wing ribs..... PIETENPOL PROJECT $300 FOR SALE Pietenpol Aircamper project. Includes: completed basic fuselage structure (no metal fittings, no seats), completed horiz. stab., elevators, tail and rudder. No fabric covering. Also included is a completed set of wing ribs. All wood is Douglas Fir. Note that fuselage members are x whereas plans call for 1 x 1. Original builder (not me) said he did it because Fir is stronger than Spruce. You decide I was not comfortable with the reduction. Also, ply on fuselage sides is partially delaminated and should be replaced. Other than that, the workmanship appears straight and good. Located Northeast Florida and must be picked up. Contact Eric Williams - located Jacksonville, FL USA Telephone: 904-221-4787 Posted January 24, 2006 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser Recommend This Ad to a Friend Send a Message ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
Well just remember to watch the weight. That little bit extra won't hurt here, and won't hurt there and before long you have an airplane that needs a bigger motor or doesn't perform as it should. ----- Original Message ----- From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steel tube fuselage the pietenpol plans call out for 1025 steel ,mine is .049 wall the plans call for .032, a little extra never hurts tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2006
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Stromberg NA-S3 Carb manual
I don't know if it is in public domain (i.e. copyable), but does anyone have an overhaul manual for a Stromberg NA-S3 carb in a digital format that I could download? I'm willing to buy one, but my guess is that someone has it on the list. Thanks Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel tube fuselage
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2006
Hi, This is not based on any practical experience but from reading the Aircraft Welding book I got from the EAA site. They talk about pressurizing the tube frame with nitrogen, waiting a few minutes for the nitrogen to dilute the air and then purging, and repeating that process a few times and finally leaving 50 lbs of nitrogen in the frame. Seems like a good safety check as well as a rust inhibitor. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9257#9257 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Peter's Pietenpol website info??
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Scott, I am in Hanoi at the moment and my ADSL when down and won=92t re-sync. I shall be back home on Tuesday so all will be working then. Sorry for temporary loss of the site. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott S. Sent: Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peter's Pietenpol website info?? Does anybody know anything about Peter's Pietenpol website? It's one of the best I've seen with construction pics, even has a materials list. It's been down for like two weeks now. Think it's HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com"http://www.cpc-world.com. Somebody let me know if I've got it wrong. Scott in TN -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: (DETAILS ABOUT) ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Hi Hans, This is an old project that I am selling. I had put a message about it on this list a few weeks ago with all the details. I'll go ahead and re-insert it below. Please feel free to ask me any questions. Thanks, Eric. *****(original message)************* Hello you guys, I have been sitting on a Piet project for 3 years that I have realized I will likely never get around to finishing. I love Pietenpols but had to finally admit to myself that, at this time, it just isn't the right project for me. I have a new job that requires a lot of time and with two kids, there just isn't a whole lot of extra time to go around. I do have an old straight-tail C-150 so at least there's something to fly. So anyway, let me describe the project. First of all, I didn't build it. I bought it from a friend who knew the builder and I did get to talk with him (the original builder) once. It includes a completed fuselage with just the wood parts - no metal fittings at all and no gear. It is the original type short fuse with the bottom side that has the greater curvature. The best that I can recall is it's 13'-6" long. There is a full set of completed wing ribs and a complete set of tail surfaces (tail, rudder, horiz. stab., elevators - no fabric). One thing I want to be clear about is that the fuselage and all other parts were made from Douglas Fir. The thing about the fuse is that the builder decreased the longeron dimensions from 1" x 1" to 3/4" x 3/4". He said it was due to the greater strength of Doug Fir. This is true but it always concerned me because I felt it was a little too much of a dimensional reduction. He said that he and a friend built two projects at the same time and the other guy completed his and apparently it is flying fine - I don't really know. I just want to be honest about it all. Also, he used doorskin type ply on the fuse sides and one side got wet during my move from Illinois to Florida and delaminated. I had always planned to strip off the doorskins and replace it with real A/C ply. So that's the story. I figure if I get $300 for the whole thing I'll be happy. I live in Northeast Florida and since it's not a high-dollar project I would really prefer that the buyer picks it up but I could help out for a short distance. I hope you guys don't mind me trying to sell this on this forum but I figured the real Piet enthusiasts are you guys so I'd give you all first crack at it. Probably emailing me privately would be the best way to handle responses so the list isn't tied up. Thanks. Eric W. >From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:49:25 -0600 > > > > >Mike, > >Delaminated plywood sides? >Sounds like Home depot stuff, could the original builder be your >"Fisherman" > >Hans. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: robison(at)mchsi.com
Subject: www.cpc-world.com
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Peter said he'd be back on Tuesday and his website will be up and running then or soon after. Scott Robison ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Finally got around to reading the archives. Wow! Not sure what his goal with this plane was. Doesn't seem like anyone I've ever talked to on the list. The good news is the folks in the forum seemed to have made a full recovery from the angry days, (I'm new and never saw anthing like that in my few months here). If I ever start making dillusional sounds like the Fisherman please be as blunt with me. I consider this list more of a resource than a source of entertainment (although it's fun to read). I think he liked to just pose a dumb idea and anxiously await the responses. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9331#9331 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steel tube fuselage
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Again, I'm referring to the Aircraft Welding book. The alternative to filling the tubing with a rust inhibiting gas is to put linseed oil inside the tube and rotate it to coat it and then pour out the excess. (Messy) Checking the pressure will be a heads-up on a cracked weld though. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=9334#9334 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: robison(at)mchsi.com
Subject: Re: Steel tube fuselage
Date: Feb 03, 2006
If you read some of the articles by EAA, boiled linsead oil has been used for years to treat the inside of steel tubing. I treated my entire fuselage by drilling a small pinhole in each tube. I then inserted the warm oil into each tube with a syringe that I purchased from my local feed store. I closed then hole with a gas torch and filler rod. After consulting with a few tech counselors I've concluded that next time I will only do the longerons since they are the only tubes that will likely collect mpisture. Just my opinion for what it's worth. If you decide to pressurize the tubing and you get a pinhole or crack in one joint that can't be seen by the naked eye will you then disassemble the aircraft to find the crack? Sounds expensive. For what we do and the planes we build. In my opinion this is over kill. You can purchase boiled linsead oil from your local hardware or farm supply store. It's cheap, quick, and easy. Treat your tubing with it and it will not rust in our life time. Scott Robison Steel Tube GN-1 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Subject: Re: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!
Nice website Glenn. Also good links, and photos of other Piets! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Steel tube fuselage
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Yes, boiled linseed oil has been the standard. Also, Polyfiber (Stits) makes a tubing sealer which is about the same. In restoration work it has been common practice to drill a small hole in the front and rear of a fuselage, and plug one of them with a PK screw. Insert a liberal amount of sealer (a quart or so) Then rotisserie the fuselage around for a couple of days and drain out from the opposite end and replug with the PK screw or a spot weld. I have found that manufacturers of yore used to plan for this and made holes in the tubing for oil travel in weld clusters so it is easy to get good penetration throughout. Sometimes, too good, as you can get bleeding of the oil through the clusters that can make primer almost impossible to stick without liberal doses of reducer. I have cut into old fuselages and still found them wet, sticky and rust free on the inside after 50+ years. -john- > > If you read some of the articles by EAA, boiled linsead oil has been used for > years to treat the inside of steel tubing. I treated my entire fuselage by > drilling a small pinhole in each tube. I then inserted the warm oil into each > tube with a syringe that I purchased from my local feed store. I closed then > hole with a gas torch and filler rod. After consulting with a few tech > counselors I've concluded that next time I will only do the longerons since > they are the only tubes that will likely collect mpisture. Just my opinion > for > what it's worth. If you decide to pressurize the tubing and you get a pinhole > or crack in one joint that can't be seen by the naked eye will you then > disassemble the aircraft to find the crack? Sounds expensive. For what we do > and the planes we build. In my opinion this is over kill. You can purchase > boiled linsead oil from your local hardware or farm supply store. It's cheap, > quick, and easy. Treat your tubing with it and it will not rust in our life > time. > > Scott Robison > Steel Tube GN-1 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: EAA quilt contest
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Anybody here a quilter, or know of someone who is? They could submit the AirCamper graphic, or the TACO logo, or similar graphic as an entry in the EAA's quilt block contest: http://www.airventure.org/2006/events/quilt_contest.html The Pietenpol logo at http://users.aol.com/bpanews/index.html , with bright colors, would be a good one. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2006
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: EAA quilt contest
Hey, my wife quilts....good idea. I would caution against using anything from the Grant MaClaren site (users.aol.com/bpanews) below. He's VERY sensitive to people reproducing what he has published. Jim in Plano -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: Feb 3, 2006 11:04 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA quilt contest > > >Anybody here a quilter, or know of someone who is? They could submit the >AirCamper graphic, or the TACO logo, or similar graphic as an entry in the >EAA's quilt block contest: > >http://www.airventure.org/2006/events/quilt_contest.html > >The Pietenpol logo at http://users.aol.com/bpanews/index.html , with bright >colors, would be a good one. > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: EAA quilt contest
Date: Feb 03, 2006
I've got the high resolution file for the TACO logo I created if anyone wants it DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 10:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: EAA quilt contest > > Hey, my wife quilts....good idea. > > I would caution against using anything from the Grant MaClaren site (users.aol.com/bpanews) below. He's VERY sensitive to people reproducing what he has published. > > Jim in Plano > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > >Sent: Feb 3, 2006 11:04 AM > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA quilt contest > > > > > >Anybody here a quilter, or know of someone who is? They could submit the > >AirCamper graphic, or the TACO logo, or similar graphic as an entry in the > >EAA's quilt block contest: > > > >http://www.airventure.org/2006/events/quilt_contest.html > > > >The Pietenpol logo at http://users.aol.com/bpanews/index.html , with bright > >colors, would be a good one. > > > >Oscar Zuniga > >San Antonio, TX > >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Stromberg NA-S3 Carb manual
Kirk, I have it in my copy of the Continental A50, A65, A75, A80 maintenance and overhaul manual. My scanner at home is down, but I can take it to work on Monday to scan it. If you need it before then, check on the Sky Ranch website or the flybaby website. Sorry I dont remember the URL, but if you'll GOOGLE it they should pop up. Terry B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Thanks, I made it to share ideas and get comments on things I'm building when I'm not sure if it's right. There's nothing there yet but hopefully that will change. How far along are you with yours? (or are you already flying it) Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Fisherman Surfaces !!! Nice website Glenn. Also good links, and photos of other Piets! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sterling" <sterling(at)pgrb.com>
Subject: Re: EAA quilt contest
Date: Feb 03, 2006
I'm sure DJ's design for the TACO logo would win and I'm happy DJ was so gracious to design the logo for us and offer it for the quilt contest. Thanks DJ for your contribution... Sterling (P.S. Y'all who have never been to DJ's house would be very impressed by all his handywork! Super, super stuff. ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA quilt contest > > > Anybody here a quilter, or know of someone who is? They could submit the > AirCamper graphic, or the TACO logo, or similar graphic as an entry in the > EAA's quilt block contest: > > http://www.airventure.org/2006/events/quilt_contest.html > > The Pietenpol logo at http://users.aol.com/bpanews/index.html , with > bright colors, would be a good one. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: fuel tank sealer
Date: Feb 03, 2006
Since my plane is down for the winter I am doing some maint and upgrades. One of the items on my checklist was to remove the fuel tank and rinse out. Doing this I got a big suprise. I had used a fuel tank sealant when I built the tank out of aluminum. I used a boreoscope to check the inside of the tank and all is holding up well, but, when I rinsed out the tank some good sized pieces of sealant washed out. This didn't come from the ends where I had sealed but from where the liquid had dribbled on the sides when I poured it into the tank. Many of the pieces of debris could easily have clogged the fuel line. A couple of major points here. Is a tank sealant relly a good idea? I havent resolved that for myself yet, but I'm thinking no at this point. In order to prevent any future problems, I tapped out the 1/4" fuel bushing to 3/8" and ordered a finger strainer for inside the tank. The strainer is approx 2" high. When building a new tank it might be good to install that strainer to start. Having said that, it is an item that also should be removed and cleaned with each annual. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank sealer.
Hello Dick, Here in our factory, my brother Larry is a good welder, so as we fly and build airplanes, once in a while we get some weld jobs for friends pilots... A friend brought once an alu wing tank from a Kitfox to see if can be fixed, the idea of the owner was to make an "inspection window" in the tank to see why it cloged often and didnt transfer to the header,... later close-weld the window. Not easy to do, with the thin aluminum used in that tank, We though was better to make a new one, so we opened it (cut, no heat), what we found was that all the sealer inside was peeling off. This was a factory demo, that the owner bought in the spot. so (I think) was sealed well... Was a white material. Also I read from the VW conversion list by Mr. Bob "the other" Hoover, by the way a very experienced home builder, that the sealant should be used only when the tank was riveted instead of welded, using the sealant as a "gasket" betwen the two areas to rivet. Also he uses only one brand of sealer, but cant remember the name now. We never have used sealer, we weld and check twice all the welds in the tanks. Just for what is worth, hope it helps you. Saludos Gary Gower. Dick Navratil wrote: Since my plane is down for the winter I am doing some maint and upgrades. One of the items on my checklist was to remove the fuel tank and rinse out. Doing this I got a big suprise. I had used a fuel tank sealant when I built the tank out of aluminum. I used a boreoscope to check the inside of the tank and all is holding up well, but, when I rinsed out the tank some good sized pieces of sealant washed out. This didn't come from the ends where I had sealed but from where the liquid had dribbled on the sides when I poured it into the tank. Many of the pieces of debris could easily have clogged the fuel line. A couple of major points here. Is a tank sealant relly a good idea? I havent resolved that for myself yet, but I'm thinking no at this point. In order to prevent any future problems, I tapped out the 1/4" fuel bushing to 3/8" and ordered a finger strainer for inside the tank. The strainer is approx 2" high. When building a new tank it might be good to install that strainer to start. Having said that, it is an item that also should be removed and cleaned with each annual. Dick N. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuel tank sealer
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Dick, You will find a lot of discussion on this topic in the RV list. It is not recommended by Van's Aircraft. When I built my RV8 tanks I utilized Pro-Seal on the riveted joints, it's great stuff but a bear to work with. I plan to use it on my Piet tank when I get to it. Jack Textor www.textors.com Since my plane is down for the winter I am doing some maint and upgrades. One of the items on my checklist was to remove the fuel tank and rinse out. Doing this I got a big suprise. I had used a fuel tank sealant when I built the tank out of aluminum. I used a boreoscope to check the inside of the tank and all is holding up well, but, when I rinsed out the tank some good sized pieces of sealant washed out. This didn't come from the ends where I had sealed but from where the liquid had dribbled on the sides when I poured it into the tank. Many of the pieces of debris could easily have clogged the fuel line. A couple of major points here. Is a tank sealant relly a good idea? I havent resolved that for myself yet, but I'm thinking no at this point. In order to prevent any future problems, I tapped out the 1/4" fuel bushing to 3/8" and ordered a finger strainer for inside the tank. The strainer is approx 2" high. When building a new tank it might be good to install that strainer to start. Having said that, it is an item that also should be removed and cleaned with each annual. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject:
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Hello everyone, I'm not new to the list, I've been lurking for a few years. I have a Piet project sitting in my shop that has been on the shelf for quite some time due to time constraints (running a business, remodeling a house, keeping up with family etc.) I wanted to share something with you all. I've been around construction, cabinet/furniture making, restored cars and generally working with my hands for over 40 years and in the past year I came up with an idea so simple, yet so helpful I can't believe I haven't heard of it before. I was making metal fittings for my Piet, laying out the pieces on the metal with a marking pen, or whatever, then cutting them out. I wasn't happy at all with the precision of the pieces due to the layout - thickness of line, little off with a measurement etc, etc. SOLUTION: -Draw the part using a CAD Program on the computer including all hole layout and anything else you'll need to machine (I use AutoCad but any of the CAD programs will work). -Print the drawing to full scale. -Cut the drawing to the rough size. -Use a spray adhesive to mount the drawing to the metal. 3M makes a good one and its sold in most hardware stores. -Cut and drill the part per the drawing layout. -When you're done machining, wet the paper drawing with a little lacquer thinner and it virtually falls off. I use the same method to make small precise wooden parts. Works great. Now I can't imagine making parts any other way. The computer allows you to double check your layout before you put it on the metal. It also gives you the minimum line weight so threes no guesswork involved. If you're not already using a CAD program it would be well worth the time to learn the basics. You'll recoup the time over and over again. As I said, I've been lurking on the list for quite a while and I've gotten so much from everyone I thought I'd give something back. Hope this helps somebody out there, I know it's really improved the quality of the parts I've made. Dave Remember The Ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic was built by Professionals. Keep building. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
How did you resolve the accuracy of transferring your computer image to print? How accurate is it and how accurate do you need it? I've had difficulties with the printing process altering the drawing and ending up with odd dimensions on at least one axis. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Esslinger <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> >Sent: Feb 4, 2006 7:25 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: > > >Hello everyone, I'm not new to the list, I've been lurking for a few years. >I have a Piet project sitting in my shop that has been on the shelf for >quite some time due to time constraints (running a business, remodeling a >house, keeping up with family etc.) I wanted to share something with you >all. I've been around construction, cabinet/furniture making, restored cars >and generally working with my hands for over 40 years and in the past year I >came up with an idea so simple, yet so helpful I can't believe I haven't >heard of it before. I was making metal fittings for my Piet, laying out the >pieces on the metal with a marking pen, or whatever, then cutting them out. >I wasn't happy at all with the precision of the pieces due to the layout - >thickness of line, little off with a measurement etc, etc. >SOLUTION: >-Draw the part using a CAD Program on the computer including all hole layout >and anything else you'll need to machine (I use AutoCad but any of the CAD >programs will work). >-Print the drawing to full scale. >-Cut the drawing to the rough size. >-Use a spray adhesive to mount the drawing to the metal. 3M makes a good one >and its sold in most hardware stores. >-Cut and drill the part per the drawing layout. >-When you're done machining, wet the paper drawing with a little lacquer >thinner and it virtually falls off. > >I use the same method to make small precise wooden parts. Works great. >Now I can't imagine making parts any other way. The computer allows you to >double check your layout before you put it on the metal. It also gives you >the minimum line weight so threes no guesswork involved. If you're not >already using a CAD program it would be well worth the time to learn the >basics. You'll recoup the time over and over again. > >As I said, I've been lurking on the list for quite a while and I've gotten >so much from everyone I thought I'd give something back. Hope this helps >somebody out there, I know it's really improved the quality of the parts >I've made. >Dave >Remember >The Ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic was built by Professionals. Keep >building. > >-- > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Subject: Re: fuel tank sealer
i have a bd4 and fuel sealant is a big problem with the bd, we have found that 1422 proseal is the sealant you should use . it the same sealant used on the md80 and you never have problems with it tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Great idea, Dave. I use spray adhesives a lot. Primarily 3M 77. I like your idea about removing stuff with lacquer thinner. I've found that using a heat gun to remove the paper makes the little bit of leftoever adhesive a lot easier to clean up with the lacquer thinner. Not quite as messy. I also use grid paper to layout the part (using a circle template, straight edge, compass, etc) then stick that right to the metal. In fact, I'm redesigning my landing gear and attached is an example (small file size) of how the grid paper works out. Now all I have to do is straighten out the lines a bit and I have templates. I spent nearly 15 years as a design draftsman but just haven't seemed to enjoy much success with the drawing programs like AutoCad. (Maybe because I'm too lazy to learn one, but I'll bet there are some good ones out there nowadays.) Neat idea, thanks! Jim in Plano TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 6:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: > > > Hello everyone, I'm not new to the list, I've been lurking for a few > years. > I have a Piet project sitting in my shop that has been on the shelf for > quite some time due to time constraints (running a business, remodeling a > house, keeping up with family etc.) I wanted to share something with you > all. I've been around construction, cabinet/furniture making, restored > cars > and generally working with my hands for over 40 years and in the past year > I > came up with an idea so simple, yet so helpful I can't believe I haven't > heard of it before. I was making metal fittings for my Piet, laying out > the > pieces on the metal with a marking pen, or whatever, then cutting them > out. > I wasn't happy at all with the precision of the pieces due to the layout - > thickness of line, little off with a measurement etc, etc. > SOLUTION: > -Draw the part using a CAD Program on the computer including all hole > layout > and anything else you'll need to machine (I use AutoCad but any of the CAD > programs will work). > -Print the drawing to full scale. > -Cut the drawing to the rough size. > -Use a spray adhesive to mount the drawing to the metal. 3M makes a good > one > and its sold in most hardware stores. > -Cut and drill the part per the drawing layout. > -When you're done machining, wet the paper drawing with a little lacquer > thinner and it virtually falls off. > > I use the same method to make small precise wooden parts. Works great. > Now I can't imagine making parts any other way. The computer allows you to > double check your layout before you put it on the metal. It also gives you > the minimum line weight so threes no guesswork involved. If you're not > already using a CAD program it would be well worth the time to learn the > basics. You'll recoup the time over and over again. > > As I said, I've been lurking on the list for quite a while and I've gotten > so much from everyone I thought I'd give something back. Hope this helps > somebody out there, I know it's really improved the quality of the parts > I've made. > Dave > Remember > The Ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic was built by Professionals. > Keep > building. > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Subject: Re: fuel tank sealer.
oh i almost forgot never use sloshing compound it is always a mess it breaks down in gasoline tom ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Dave Great idea. Was talking to a Piet builder that took that one step further, print the parts out on two part adhesive backed printing paper (like mailing label print paper). Once someone has all the Piet metal parts in CAD if they wanted to they could post the cad file for any Piet builder to use. Also, for anyone that is looking for inexpensive cad software I found one or two versions old copies of TurboCad for $5 to $10 on eBay. Nothing like AutoCad but far more than we need for simple 2D stuff. > > > I wasn't happy at all with the precision of the pieces due to the layout - > thickness of line, little off with a measurement etc, etc. > SOLUTION: > -Draw the part using a CAD Program on the computer including all hole > layout > and anything else you'll need to machine (I use AutoCad but any of the CAD > programs will work). > -Print the drawing to full scale. > -Cut the drawing to the rough size. > -Use a spray adhesive to mount the drawing to the metal. 3M makes a good > one > and its sold in most hardware stores. > -Cut and drill the part per the drawing layout. > -When you're done machining, wet the paper drawing with a little lacquer > thinner and it virtually falls off. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank sealer.
Sounds like the best way to go, if you can weld aluminum, or know someone that can, is to just do a welded tank and avoid the sealer problem all together. Or am I missing something? On 2/4/06, Gary Gower wrote: > > Hello Dick, > > Here in our factory, my brother Larry is a good welder, so as we fly and > build airplanes, once in a while we get some weld jobs for friends > pilots... > > A friend brought once an alu wing tank from a Kitfox to see if can be > fixed, the idea of the owner was to make an "inspection window" in the tank > to see why it cloged often and didnt transfer to the header,... later > close-weld the window. > Not easy to do, with the thin aluminum used in that tank, We though was > better to make a new one, so we opened it (cut, no heat), > > what we found was that all the sealer inside was peeling off. This was a > factory demo, that the owner bought in the spot. so (I think) was sealed > well... Was a white material. > > Also I read from the VW conversion list by Mr. Bob "the other" H oover, > by the way a very experienced home builder, that the sealant should be > used only when the tank was riveted instead of welded, using the sealant as > a "gasket" betwen the two areas to rivet. Also he uses only one brand of > sealer, but cant remember the name now. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Subject: Pietenpol - Lindbergh Connection?
CC: marwilson(at)charter.net Hi all! A week or so ago I asked if anyone knew whether or not Bernard had ever met Charles Lindbergh -- here's a note that I got this morning from Dan Wilson in Austin, Minnesota. Dan asked me to share this with the list. Wouldn't you have loved to have been a fly on the wall at that meeting. Wonder what they talked about? Hmmmm.... Fred B. La Crosse, WI Greetings ! Fred I just saw Vi Kapler this afternoon in Rochester. I asked him if he knew if Bernard ever met Charles Lindbergh. He told me that Bernard's childhood friend and neighbor Don Finke told him that Bernard did meet Charles Lindbergh. Bernard met Lucky Lindy prior to his solo crossing of the Atlantic. Vi recalled that they met at an airport in the twin cities area. He thought it was in the Rosemount area. I bet that members of the Finke or Pietenpol family have more information on this chance meeting of the two great Minnesota Aviators. Fred, will you please share this information with the rest of the pietenpol list readers.... Dan Wilson Austin, Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com>
Subject: tenpol-List:
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Jim, I don't know about other CAD programs, but in AutoCad there are two basic view options. One is "Model" the other is "Layout". If you print from Model space with a scale setting of 1:1 the print will come out exactly to size. One of the nice things about it is, if I need four identical parts I just print it four times and don't have to do any manual layout. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Ash Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 9:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How did you resolve the accuracy of transferring your computer image to print? How accurate is it and how accurate do you need it? I've had difficulties with the printing process altering the drawing and ending up with odd dimensions on at least one axis. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Dave Esslinger <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> >Sent: Feb 4, 2006 7:25 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: > > >Hello everyone, I'm not new to the list, I've been lurking for a few years. >I have a Piet project sitting in my shop that has been on the shelf for >quite some time due to time constraints (running a business, remodeling a >house, keeping up with family etc.) I wanted to share something with you >all. I've been around construction, cabinet/furniture making, restored cars >and generally working with my hands for over 40 years and in the past year I >came up with an idea so simple, yet so helpful I can't believe I haven't >heard of it before. I was making metal fittings for my Piet, laying out the >pieces on the metal with a marking pen, or whatever, then cutting them out. >I wasn't happy at all with the precision of the pieces due to the layout - >thickness of line, little off with a measurement etc, etc. >SOLUTION: >-Draw the part using a CAD Program on the computer including all hole layout >and anything else you'll need to machine (I use AutoCad but any of the CAD >programs will work). >-Print the drawing to full scale. >-Cut the drawing to the rough size. >-Use a spray adhesive to mount the drawing to the metal. 3M makes a good one >and its sold in most hardware stores. >-Cut and drill the part per the drawing layout. >-When you're done machining, wet the paper drawing with a little lacquer >thinner and it virtually falls off. > >I use the same method to make small precise wooden parts. Works great. >Now I can't imagine making parts any other way. The computer allows you to >double check your layout before you put it on the metal. It also gives you >the minimum line weight so threes no guesswork involved. If you're not >already using a CAD program it would be well worth the time to learn the >basics. You'll recoup the time over and over again. > >As I said, I've been lurking on the list for quite a while and I've gotten >so much from everyone I thought I'd give something back. Hope this helps >somebody out there, I know it's really improved the quality of the parts >I've made. >Dave >Remember >The Ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic was built by Professionals. Keep >building. > >-- > > -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Greetings, Just a mention, with all this talk of the newer builders making metal fittings. To save some from having to throw out hard earned fittings,,,just wanted to bring up the "rules" of metal work with regards to 4130 Grain. The grain goes with the "longness of a strap" "Gets bent on an angle bracket" (like looking at the back of your flat hand, then bending all the fingers down at the second knuckle) If you buy a sheet of 4130, the grain goes with the printed lettering. Ain't Life Grand! Walt in NJ , amid mild weather, waiting for Spring to break!! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Esslinger" <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 2:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: > > > Jim, I don't know about other CAD programs, but in AutoCad there are two > basic view options. One is "Model" the other is "Layout". If you print > from > Model space with a scale setting of 1:1 the print will come out exactly to > size. One of the nice things about it is, if I need four identical parts I > just print it four times and don't have to do any manual layout. > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Ash > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 9:44 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: > > > How did you resolve the accuracy of transferring your computer image to > print? How accurate is it and how accurate do you need it? I've had > difficulties with the printing process altering the drawing and ending up > with odd dimensions on at least one axis. > > Jim Ash > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Dave Esslinger <aquanaut(at)indy.rr.com> >>Sent: Feb 4, 2006 7:25 AM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: >> > >> >>Hello everyone, I'm not new to the list, I've been lurking for a few >>years. >>I have a Piet project sitting in my shop that has been on the shelf for >>quite some time due to time constraints (running a business, remodeling a >>house, keeping up with family etc.) I wanted to share something with you >>all. I've been around construction, cabinet/furniture making, restored >>cars >>and generally working with my hands for over 40 years and in the past year > I >>came up with an idea so simple, yet so helpful I can't believe I haven't >>heard of it before. I was making metal fittings for my Piet, laying out >>the >>pieces on the metal with a marking pen, or whatever, then cutting them >>out. >>I wasn't happy at all with the precision of the pieces due to the layout - >>thickness of line, little off with a measurement etc, etc. >>SOLUTION: >>-Draw the part using a CAD Program on the computer including all hole > layout >>and anything else you'll need to machine (I use AutoCad but any of the CAD >>programs will work). >>-Print the drawing to full scale. >>-Cut the drawing to the rough size. >>-Use a spray adhesive to mount the drawing to the metal. 3M makes a good > one >>and its sold in most hardware stores. >>-Cut and drill the part per the drawing layout. >>-When you're done machining, wet the paper drawing with a little lacquer >>thinner and it virtually falls off. >> >>I use the same method to make small precise wooden parts. Works great. >>Now I can't imagine making parts any other way. The computer allows you to >>double check your layout before you put it on the metal. It also gives you >>the minimum line weight so threes no guesswork involved. If you're not >>already using a CAD program it would be well worth the time to learn the >>basics. You'll recoup the time over and over again. >> >>As I said, I've been lurking on the list for quite a while and I've gotten >>so much from everyone I thought I'd give something back. Hope this helps >>somebody out there, I know it's really improved the quality of the parts >>I've made. >>Dave >>Remember >>The Ark was built by amateurs, the Titanic was built by Professionals. >>Keep >>building. >> >>-- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > -- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
Date: Feb 04, 2006
steel tube Piet on e-bay right now http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper-experimental-fuselage_W0QQitemZ4610038493QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem michael silvius ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Steel tube fuselage
Date: Feb 04, 2006
looks like the wings are being sold eparately http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper-experimental-aircraft-wings_W0QQitemZ4610038818QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: paint and graphics
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Howdy, Pieters; Question came up over on the KRNet about how long to let paint cure before applying graphics such as N-numbers and striping. I'm sure it varies depending on the paint used; this one was a paint used on boats (International Paint Inc "Interlux #4359 White" polyurethane single part enamel). Any ideas? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doyle Combs" <doylecombskeith(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Feb 04, 2006
This not an article for purists, but for someone looking for a project to get back in the in a relative short amount of time. I have a PGN-2 that has the best of the GN-1 and the Piet put together in a unique way. Anyway, I had a hard landing and have decided to sell the Piet. In all that have looked at it, it is agreed that it is repairable. I have the rib jig that came with the plane. I have all the plans and records that have been with the plane from the beginning of the building. The engine is a subaru E81. The prop was busted, but the lick seemed to have been absorbed by the reducer that has a back bent plate. It is a 1.84 ratio. There is some damage to the right wing. Left wing is ok. Some damage to landing gear and fuselage. Tailfeathers are ok. Price of $1500 includes instruments, wheels, brakes, engine and reducer. The only think to buy is a prop. I will consider selling it without instruments or wheels and brakes. If you would like to see pictures, email me offline. I remember the fuss when the net gets loaded with pictures. I will email photos of the project. Doyle Combs P. O. Box 421 Lometa, Texas 76853 512-752-9202 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: evening
Hello everybody, Well today I went up to my dads place in St.Joseph and I took pictures of the Aircamper that in his garage that is hanging from the rafters. Would anyone like to see? Also I have the plans with me now that me and dad got from Orrin Hoopman in 1996. have a goodnight, Ben Ramler --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank sealer.
Date: Feb 04, 2006
My fuel tank is welded, but I added the sealant anyway. When I built that tank I fabricated, rivited it together then took it to a welder. He welded over the rivits and seams. When I pressure tested it there were a few pinhole leaks, which he repaired, but that drove me to use sealer. At the time, I figured it would give some added protection against leaks. I will be keeping watch on the condition of the tank and if necessary, replace it. I have to make two more tanks for my new project anyway. I have an expanded center section on the project, with 32" wide space for fuel (18 gal cap) and seperate tanks gives added safety. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank sealer. Sounds like the best way to go, if you can weld aluminum, or know someone that can, is to just do a welded tank and avoid the sealer problem all together. Or am I missing something ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRichmo9(at)AOL.COM
Date: Feb 04, 2006
Subject: Re: evening
id love to see those pics tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: evening
Date: Feb 04, 2006
I would also like to see Ben's Dad's Aircamper... Hey Ben, if you wouldn't mind sending them offline, I have broadband so send em' on! Thanks Jim in Plano TX.....just bolted all the control hardware and fittings into the pilot and passenger area, made the cables for the passenger rudder pedals, bolted on all the engine mount fittings....put cotter pins in where they belong... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Try this; http://deltacad.com/index.html Clif Also, for anyone that is looking for inexpensive cad software I found one or two versions old copies of TurboCad for $5 to $10 on eBay. Nothing like AutoCad but far more than we need for simple 2D stuff. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 05, 2006
Subject: Cad Layout
In a message dated 2/4/2006 12:28:50 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: Also, for anyone that is looking for inexpensive cad software I found one or two versions old copies of TurboCad for $5 to $10 on eBay. Nothing like AutoCad but far more than we need for simple 2D stuff. Caution: I have one of the early versions of TurboCad that I used on my old computer. It will NOT work with the newer Windows oporating systems...gotta go buy another Cad program !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cad Layout
Good point Chuck, my TurboCad Version 8 cd says "Windows XP Compatible". Good thing to check for. Rick H On 2/4/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/4/2006 12:28:50 PM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: > > Also, for anyone that is looking for inexpensive cad software I found one > or two versions old copies of TurboCad for $5 to $10 on eBay. Nothing like > AutoCad but far more than we need for simple 2D stuff. > > Caution: I have one of the early versions of TurboCad that I used on my > old computer. It will NOT work with the newer Windows oporating > systems...gotta go buy another Cad program !! > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: update on FlyCorvair website...
Date: Feb 05, 2006
William Wynne has posted an update to his "At The Hangar" page at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html Included is information on nitriding cranks and progress on the 5th bearing project that William hopes to have completed and flying by Sun 'n' Fun. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank sealer.
Our professional experience in our factory is more with Stainless Steel, but when we were building our Zenith 701, we noted that the aluminum needs treatment to recieve any paint, We painted some little parts before assembly, the paint peeled so we unriveted them and painted with Zinc Cromate as a primer. Not using Zinc Cromate will make the paint peel off, probably same happens with the sealant over the inner surface of the tank??? Is suposed that this fuel tank sealers are developed that way... But for how long (years)? or does some autogas ruins the sealent? The tanks with sealer in the rivet joints only dont leak, neither the welded ones, when done correct. Just my point of view. Could be completly wrong. Saludos Gary Gower Rick Holland wrote: Sounds like the best way to go, if you can weld aluminum, or know someone that can, is to just do a welded tank and avoid the sealer problem all together. Or am I missing something? On 2/4/06, Gary Gower wrote: Hello Dick, Here in our factory, my brother Larry is a good welder, so as we fly and build airplanes, once in a while we get some weld jobs for friends pilots... A friend brought once an alu wing tank from a Kitfox to see if can be fixed, the idea of the owner was to make an "inspection window" in the tank to see why it cloged often and didnt transfer to the header,... later close-weld the window. Not easy to do, with the thin aluminum used in that tank, We though was better to make a new one, so we opened it (cut, no heat), what we found was that all the sealer inside was peeling off. This was a factory demo, that the owner bought in the spot. so (I think) was sealed well... Was a white material. Also I read from the VW conversion list by Mr. Bob "the other" H oover, by the way a very experienced home builder, that the sealant should be used only when the tank was riveted instead of welded, using the sealant as a "gasket" betwen the two areas to rivet. Also he uses only one brand of sealer, but cant remember the name now. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Prop Hubs
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Has anyone got a prop hub on order from William Wynn? I ordered one in October last year but can't find out an expected delivery date as my emails to William aren't answered and his phone is permanently engaged. Rod Wooller Chidlow Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: CAD programs
Date: Feb 06, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Jim Markle wrote: ...drawing programs like AutoCad. (Maybe because I'm too lazy to learn one, but I'll bet there are some good ones out there nowadays.) Jim (and others), As an example of the CAD programs "out there nowadays", take a look at the hinge drawings I was able to produce using the latest in CAD. These are JPG images of the type of "drawings" done in CAD nawadays. This program, called SolidWorks (which I am just learning how to use) models everything in 3D. Traditional "drawings" (i.e. three views, orthagonal projections, etc.) are automatically produced with the click of a button, once the "model" is built. As I said, I am just learning how to use the program, so as a form of "practice" during off-work hours I am slowly building a CAD model of the Air Camper airframe. When I finally finish, I will share the model with the list. Of course, that might take a little while - so far I have only completed the horizontal stabilizer. Oh yeah, one drawback...the program will set you back about $5000. <> <> P.S. Does the hinge look familiar, Jim? Thanks for sharing your grid paper sketch of your hinge. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Dave Esslinger in Indiana
Group-- It is good to see Dave E. posting on the list and his idea is a good one for making metal Piet/GN fittings. I used a similar method by copying the plans and then using a paper glue stick to stick the pattern to my metal before cutting and drilling. I would modify the fittings (like making the 'ears' longer that protrude forward thru our fire walls for our motor mount fitting/bolts to clear or go thru more easily than if you built it ala plans. Of course with a copy machine you have to see if there is any distortion/corruption of part size but I generally modified the fittings a bit by pencil first anyway---or made white posterboard (Wal Mart, CVS, Walgreens) mock-ups of various fittings. I met Dave at the excellent Indianapolis Air Show a few years back and he flew over last spring to our local EAA pancake breakfast to have a look-see at my plane and try it on for size. Here he is getting some ground simulator time in Ohio. Mike C. in snowy Cleveland ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Simplify your life with this idea---metal fittings
Guys--- If you notice, most of the steel that we use in making fittings for our Pietenpols is either .060" or .090" thick and usually standard width strips like 1/2", 3/4", 1" and soforth. An easy way to avoid having to cut the 'long' sides by bandsaw or shear is to order your 4130 in specific thickness and width-strips. I know ACS used to sell it by the width-strips. I ordered sheets of 4130 from Dillsburg and was very fortunate to have access to a large shear so I could cut my own, but another alternative to buying the more expensive pre-cut strips is to take your 4130 sheet to a local shop that has heavy shear equipment that is willing to cut your sheets to various widths, chop, chop, chop, whala, done. This takes some homework and jotting down of estimates of how many lengths of this and that you might need but sure saves time in making (and re-making) of your metal fittings. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dave Esslinger in Indiana
Date: Feb 06, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Just be sure you don't drill any holes until you are through with the bending process and any welding. Parts have a way of distorting and moving when bent or welded. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael D Cuy Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dave Esslinger in Indiana Group-- It is good to see Dave E. posting on the list and his idea is a good one for making metal Piet/GN fittings. I used a similar method by copying the plans and then using a paper glue stick to stick the pattern to my metal before cutting and drilling. I would modify the fittings (like making the 'ears' longer that protrude forward thru our fire walls for our motor mount fitting/bolts to clear or go thru more easily than if you built it ala plans. Of course with a copy machine you have to see if there is any distortion/corruption of part size but I generally modified the fittings a bit by pencil first anyway---or made white posterboard (Wal Mart, CVS, Walgreens) mock-ups of various fittings. I met Dave at the excellent Indianapolis Air Show a few years back and he flew over last spring to our local EAA pancake breakfast to have a look-see at my plane and try it on for size. Here he is getting some ground simulator time in Ohio. Mike C. in snowy Cleveland or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2006
From: barnstmr(at)aol.com
Subject: Stromberg Manual Info
Folks, Someone asked about Stromberg Carburetor Manual. I scanned and posted two different ones to my page on Mykitplanes.com. See if this link works. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=52 Terry L. Bowden ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2006
From: barnstmr(at)aol.com
Subject: 3rd Generation T-craft OFF TOPIC
Folks, I am WAY excited. I have been blessed to purchase the plane I first learned to fly, 28 yrs ago. It is a 1946 Taylorcraft BC12-D. I have kept in touch with the man who bought it from my dad 20 yrs ago. He called me a few weeks ago and said he was selling her and wanted me to have the first shot at buying it. Airplane folks are great! I posted a few pictures on the address below. I am so blessed. I hope to be able to teach my kids to fly just like my dad did for me in this plane. I have some work to do on her first to get it airworthy, a longeron repair and carburetor overhaul. I guess the Piet will still sit for a while. But my thought is.... once one or two of the kids really get into this, we will get back on the Piet. I am going to have to keep the Tcraft at My dad's airstrip about an hours drive away until I somehow manage to build a hangar at home on Tick Hill Airfield. It needs to be large enough to handle the Piet and the Tcraft. How does it go Walt? Ain't life Grand??? http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=283 Terry L. Bowden ph 254-715-4773 fax 254-853-3805 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <djv(at)imagedv.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Generation T-craft OFF TOPIC
Date: Feb 06, 2006
nice!! my cousin has the same year and model. Every August when I go to Michigan I get to fly it off his grass strip in his back yard. Such a fun plane!! and what's more awesome is that it's the SAME plane that your dad had! wow! DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <barnstmr(at)aol.com> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3rd Generation T-craft OFF TOPIC > > Folks, > I am WAY excited. I have been blessed to purchase the plane I first > learned to fly, 28 yrs ago. It is a 1946 Taylorcraft BC12-D. I have kept > in touch with the man who bought it from my dad 20 yrs ago. He called me > a few weeks ago and said he was selling her and wanted me to have the > first shot at buying it. Airplane folks are great! I posted a few > pictures on the address below. I am so blessed. I hope to be able to > teach my kids to fly just like my dad did for me in this plane. I have > some work to do on her first to get it airworthy, a longeron repair and > carburetor overhaul. > > I guess the Piet will still sit for a while. But my thought is.... once > one or two of the kids really get into this, we will get back on the Piet. > I am going to have to keep the Tcraft at My dad's airstrip about an hours > drive away until I somehow manage to build a hangar at home on Tick Hill > Airfield. It needs to be large enough to handle the Piet and the Tcraft. > > How does it go Walt? Ain't life Grand??? > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=283 > > > Terry L. Bowden > ph 254-715-4773 > fax 254-853-3805 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Hubs
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Welcome to the world of William Wynne. Last summer I place 136 calls and left messages. Many times the message center was full. None were ever returned. I finally heard from him late in Nov. when he called to inform me that he was sending my two cyl. heads viaUPS the next day. Several weeks later they arrived. I'm still waiting on a couple other parts he said he'd send me. Since then he added another full time employee, the guy who makes their videos. He will answer the phone as well as Gus. But, they usually can't answer any Q's about parts shipment. All I can recommend is keep trying to call and hang up after the fourth ring so you don't get billed to talk to a message machine. Someone will answer in four rings if you get through, though not likely William. That's how it is when one has no competition in the Corvair Aircaft Engine conversion market. Very smart guy, but lousy business manager. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Hubs
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Hi, I sent him a bunch of emails that never got answered regarding his latest discovery of the crankshaft problem. I called in the evening on a Saturday (I think... I know it was the weekend) and WW picked up and I fired off a whole list of questions (asked in previous unanswered emails) which he patiently listened to and gave me good answers to. He told me to call the hangar line (on www.flycorvair.com) whenever I have a question and that he's there late a lot. He said not to worry about time because it only rings in the hangar and he's there quite a bit. It's true that he doesn't have a lot of competition but I'm afraid if he did, to stay competitive he probably wouldn't be able to do the level of research that he does. (Like disassembling engines from a sampling of aircraft, and taking the cranks from them to Embry Riddle for magnaflux on a high-end magnaflux machine, and making public his not so popular findings) Too bad he can't just staff up for the demand. I'd go down and help on a "will work for parts" agreement if he'd let me :D Until then I'll just call at "off-peak" times. They must have some record of what's been ordered and what the status is. (I hope) I've ordered videos and his manual but no parts yet. These things all came within days of the order. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10400#10400 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Simplify your life with this idea---metal fittings
Date: Feb 06, 2006
Wicks will shear metal into strips also, and they will shear a 9" X 9" sheet into multiple sizes. dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Peter's Pietenpol website info??
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Hi Guys, Just got home, the site is now up and running again. Let me know if there are any problems. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi, Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W Johnson Sent: Friday, 3 February 2006 6:41 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Peter's Pietenpol website info?? Scott, I am in Hanoi at the moment and my ADSL when down and won=92t re-sync. I shall be back home on Tuesday so all will be working then. Sorry for temporary loss of the site. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott S. Sent: Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Peter's Pietenpol website info?? Does anybody know anything about Peter's Pietenpol website? It's one of the best I've seen with construction pics, even has a materials list. It's been down for like two weeks now. Think it's HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com"http://www.cpc-world.com. Somebody let me know if I've got it wrong. Scott in TN -- -- -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: when is Brodhead this year?
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Can someone give me the Brodhead dates for this year? thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RE: CAD programs
Date: Feb 07, 2006
RE: CAD programsWOW! Cool stuff Bill! I want THAT CAD program! But....I was in a local used book chain store yesterday and they had 2 copies of Turbo Cad V6 for $20 each....that would save me $4,980.....better go with Turbo Cad... Those hinges look better in the drawing than they did when I made them! Very interesting....thaks for sharing Bill! Jim in Plano TX ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: CAD programs Jim Markle wrote: ...drawing programs like AutoCad. (Maybe because I'm too lazy to learn one, but I'll bet there are some good ones out there nowadays.) Jim (and others), As an example of the CAD programs "out there nowadays", take a look at the hinge drawings I was able to produce using the latest in CAD. These are JPG images of the type of "drawings" done in CAD nawadays. This program, called SolidWorks (which I am just learning how to use) models everything in 3D. Traditional "drawings" (i.e. three views, orthagonal projections, etc.) are automatically produced with the click of a button, once the "model" is built. As I said, I am just learning how to use the program, so as a form of "practice" during off-work hours I am slowly building a CAD model of the Air Camper airframe. When I finally finish, I will share the model with the list. Of course, that might take a little while - so far I have only completed the horizontal stabilizer. Oh yeah, one drawback.the program will set you back about $5000. <> <> P.S. Does the hinge look familiar, Jim? Thanks for sharing your grid paper sketch of your hinge. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Brodhead Dates
Douwe--- generally it is the weekend before Oshkosh begins but since this year's EAA begins on Friday the 24th of July I'll bet that would be the first of the two to three day Brodhead gathering. The two events overlapped in 1998 as I recall also. Maybe we'll hear a more certain date from someone else. Mike C. EAA's web site says this today: 5 Months 2 Weeks 3 Days to EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2006! July 24 - 30, 2006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: when is Brodhead this year?
Date: Feb 07, 2006
From: "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com>
Hi, Check out the chapter website at www.eaa431.org. The event is July 21-23. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 7:59 AM To: pietenpolgroup Subject: Pietenpol-List: when is Brodhead this year=3F =09 =09 Can someone give me the Brodhead dates for this year=3F thanks, Douwe This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: error in my posting !
Aggggh---what a nucklehead ! I was looking at February's calandar instead of July for the Brodhead dates. Thanks, John for the correct dates ! (Friday July 21st, 22nd. & 23rd with Oshkosh beginning on Monday July 24th) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: error in my posting !
No problemo Mike, we all have our senior moments occasionally. RH no not archive On 2/7/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > > Aggggh---what a nucklehead ! I was looking at February's calandar > instead > of July for the Brodhead dates. > > Thanks, John for the correct dates ! (Friday July 21st, 22nd. & 23rd > with Oshkosh beginning on Monday July 24th) > > Mike C. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: CAD programs
Date: Feb 07, 2006
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
As an inexpensive introduction to CAD programs (and certainly capable of 2D pattern development) look at CadStd Lite at http://www.cadstd.com/. The Lite version is free and the complete Pro version is only $25. CadStd Lite can export files as DXF so you can share your drawings to your friends with other CAD programs like Autocad. Bill Sayre ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net>
Subject: Design CAD Express
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Someone mentioned Design CAD Express at around $300 ,I bought mine at Staples for under $50 Canadian .The close to 400 page manual and training cd that came with the program make it a real buy in my humble opinion.http://www.upperspace.com 2cents,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Date: Feb 07, 2006
How did you resolve the accuracy of transferring your computer image to print? How accurate is it and how accurate do you need it? I've had difficulties with the printing process altering the drawing and ending up with odd dimensions on at least one axis. Jim Ash Jim: Most of the good CAD programs out there will allow you to either print out to a specific scale (i.e. 1 inch equals 1 inch for full scale) or opt to make the print fit a specific size of media. If that is not working for you then you may have a conflict in communication between your printer (plotter) and the computer. You can always print to file and then take the plot file to a nearby facility dealing in commercial blueprinting to have it accurately plotted out. Most modern print shops can do this. As to what CAD software to use - it just depends on who you ask. Autocad and MicroStation are the two big names but you are talking about $2,000-$3,000 for a single user license and a BIG learning curve. I ran across one I learned quickly and easily a few years ago called DesignCAD. It will draw in both 2D and 3D if desired and is currently selling new for about $89, See http://www.imsisoft.com/faminfo.asp?fam=2 for more information. Since I started drawing in CAD I have about forgotten how to do it with straight edge and pen. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/stinemetze.htm ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Build or Fly?
Date: Feb 07, 2006
For those of you who are following my builder's link there will probably not be a lot going on for a while. I have the fortunate opportunity to start my flying lessons this week by taking instruction from a family friend who also taught one of my sons to fly. Won't have the time OR THE MONEY to build while that is going on. I don't have the time to go into the hassle of getting my 3rd class medical but I've got it now and can't wait to get started. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, Kansas http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/stinemetze.htm ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robison" <robison(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Date: Feb 07, 2006
What about the free CAD program that you can download from e-machine shop. It will let you store files and print from it and it's 3D. Scott Robison ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Subject: CAD
Yesterday, I bought TurboCAD Deluxe Version 11, at Best Buy, for $100. It says it has Powerful 2D & 3D CAD. It has one thick manual, and one CD. Haven't loaded it yet...seems I just added another iron to the fire !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: first rides
Date: Feb 07, 2006
Yeah, sure, I'd love to move the hands of the clock back to when I was 9 or 10 years old and our family friend Wally took us out to the old Laredo AFB Auxiliary Field (later to be Laredo Airport) and gave me my first airplane ride ever, in a Luscombe. I sat in his lap and I'll never, ever forget the feeling and the impressions I had as I watched the brown grass disappear beneath the wheels, as I looked out the side windows. I don't remember what we saw, or flew over, or what maneuvers we did- but I'll never forget the feeling of watching the ground melt away beneath the tires of that shiny airplane as Wally manipulated the controls and we took to the air. And I've never lost that feeling, that same feeling I get whenever I fly a J-3 or a Super Cub, or anything with an open cockpit. You hang your head over to the side and watch the ground melt away under the fat little tires... This is why I want to fly Pietenpols, and why you do, too... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Subject: Making Metal Fittings
Date: Feb 07, 2006
All this discussion about CAD has prompted me to speak up and relate my experience with making fitting per the drawings. I drew up all the fittings using TurboCAD. I like TurboCAD and will likely upgrade to their 3D version when the price comes down. I knew from Mike Cuy's posts on this list that many of the fittings need to be a bit longer. On some fittings I think this is due to not allowing for the bend allowance when they were drawn. On others, I just don't know why. So when drawing each fitting I included the bend allowance (even put in bend lines) as shown in "Making Fittings" by Tony Bingelis ( The Sport Plane Builder Book from the EAA [catch that reference Mike?]). It worked well to glue on the printed fitting templates and cut them out. After cutting, grinding then sanding you end up with a fitting that is very close to the drawing. The crosshair in the bolt hole is very helpful in placing a dimple exactly where the plans show the center of the hole. But there is the problem, not all the fittings I've made seem to fit my fuselage and tail like I think they should. Fortunately, a much wiser builder then I told me not to make the fitting until I need them, just for this reason. I think the problem lies in the way the plans were drawn and the inaccuracies of building. Now, I am not saying the plans are wrong. All I am saying is that in places the fitting could fit the location better. So here is what I now do. I make a template using cardboard, paper, light aluminum or whatever is handy, right on the completed structural element. I make my template large enough to layout the holes where the plans say to do it. Then I adjust the center of these holes to the best spot on the structure. Usually this is to the centerline of the wood member or away from a glue joint. I then adjust the outside dimension of the fitting to maintain the setback away from the edge. Holes hanging out in space I located per the drawing but a bit farther away (ie longer tabs, as Mike suggests). I mostly follow the plans but the CAD drawings were, for me, a waste of time. The thing about fittings is you need to look at what they are supposed to do and make them fit your plane not the plans. If I can, I do all the bending before drilling any holes. As for holes, leave them undersize clamp them in place and drill the matching holes on the wood member. Then I do the final trimming down to the correct shape and size. On doubled up fittings (you know where there is one on the inside and one on the outside) only drill holes on one then clamp both on the fuselage drill an undersize hole all the way through the other fitting. Then enlarge the hole to the proper size and then finish to the shape and size. That's the way I see it. Now I haven't made that many fittings yet so this might be my problem and more experienced builders may not encounter this. I'm new to metal work but I'm finding the learning curve to be fun. My wood construction is as close as I can come but trust me I know it's not perfect. Oh, one more thing, because I feel that this advice, to not build the fittings first, has saved me a bunch of money, I have chosen to not give out the CAD files because I would feel terrible if someone used them to make the fittings and they did not fit. Sorry about the long post Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Making Metal Fittings
Date: Feb 08, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Chris that's exactly the way I made all my fittings. Worked well. The only thing I can add is that I found an ideal source of pattern cardboard to be a 12 pack or case of Budweiser. The cardbaord they make those cases out of is perfect for patterns - thin, nice and stiff, and easy to cut. Of course, there's all that beer you've got to get rid of but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Jack Phillips Hoping for good flying weather this weekend -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesign Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Metal Fittings All this discussion about CAD has prompted me to speak up and relate my experience with making fitting per the drawings. I drew up all the fittings using TurboCAD. I like TurboCAD and will likely upgrade to their 3D version when the price comes down. I knew from Mike Cuy's posts on this list that many of the fittings need to be a bit longer. On some fittings I think this is due to not allowing for the bend allowance when they were drawn. On others, I just don't know why. So when drawing each fitting I included the bend allowance (even put in bend lines) as shown in "Making Fittings" by Tony Bingelis ( The Sport Plane Builder Book from the EAA [catch that reference Mike?]). It worked well to glue on the printed fitting templates and cut them out. After cutting, grinding then sanding you end up with a fitting that is very close to the drawing. The crosshair in the bolt hole is very helpful in placing a dimple exactly where the plans show the center of the hole. But there is the problem, not all the fittings I've made seem to fit my fuselage and tail like I think they should. Fortunately, a much wiser builder then I told me not to make the fitting until I need them, just for this reason. I think the problem lies in the way the plans were drawn and the inaccuracies of building. Now, I am not saying the plans are wrong. All I am saying is that in places the fitting could fit the location better. So here is what I now do. I make a template using cardboard, paper, light aluminum or whatever is handy, right on the completed structural element. I make my template large enough to layout the holes where the plans say to do it. Then I adjust the center of these holes to the best spot on the structure. Usually this is to the centerline of the wood member or away from a glue joint. I then adjust the outside dimension of the fitting to maintain the setback away from the edge. Holes hanging out in space I located per the drawing but a bit farther away (ie longer tabs, as Mike suggests). I mostly follow the plans but the CAD drawings were, for me, a waste of time. The thing about fittings is you need to look at what they are supposed to do and make them fit your plane not the plans. If I can, I do all the bending before drilling any holes. As for holes, leave them undersize clamp them in place and drill the matching holes on the wood member. Then I do the final trimming down to the correct shape and size. On doubled up fittings (you know where there is one on the inside and one on the outside) only drill holes on one then clamp both on the fuselage drill an undersize hole all the way through the other fitting. Then enlarge the hole to the proper size and then finish to the shape and size. That's the way I see it. Now I haven't made that many fittings yet so this might be my problem and more experienced builders may not encounter this. I'm new to metal work but I'm finding the learning curve to be fun. My wood construction is as close as I can come but trust me I know it's not perfect. Oh, one more thing, because I feel that this advice, to not build the fittings first, has saved me a bunch of money, I have chosen to not give out the CAD files because I would feel terrible if someone used them to make the fittings and they did not fit. Sorry about the long post Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Design CAD Express
Date: Feb 08, 2006
Hi I have used Design Cad as well and find it great. I have worked with different Cad systems and they all seem to have their good and quirkey points. It is really just a matter of learning your system and practising with it. The best learning tool is being able to talk to somebody who is also using the same system. You will each be able to tell each other little tips and shortcuts how to do different operations. The same task can usually be done many different ways. Some easy and some not so easy. Best regards Steve G >From: "Michael Turrell" <emtyit(at)3web.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Design CAD Express >Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:22:33 -0500 > >Someone mentioned Design CAD Express at around $300 ,I bought mine at >Staples for under $50 Canadian .The close to 400 page manual and training >cd that came with the program make it a real buy in my humble >opinion.http://www.upperspace.com > >2cents,Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: another experimental takes off to set another record
and the Wright Flyer was an experimental too......just like our Pietenpol Air Campers ! CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Aviation adventurer Steve Fossett shot down a three-mile runway in an experimental aircraft Wednesday and took off on an attempt to break the airplane flight distance record. The goal: 27,000 miles. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: another experimental takes off to set another record
The rights only wish they had a plane as good as the Pietenpol! Michael D Cuy wrote: > > and the Wright Flyer was an experimental too......just like our > Pietenpol Air Campers ! > > CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (AP) -- Aviation adventurer Steve Fossett shot > down a three-mile runway in an experimental aircraft Wednesday and > took off on an attempt to break the airplane flight distance record. > The goal: 27,000 miles. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2006
From: jimboyer(at)direcway.com
Subject: Re: Making Metal Fittings
Hi Chris, I had some of the same adjustments to do to the fittings I have made. Good message Chris. Jim Santa Rosa ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesign <catdesign(at)intergate.com> Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:09 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Metal Fittings > All this discussion about CAD has prompted me to speak up and > relate my experience with making fitting per the drawings. I drew > up all the fittings using TurboCAD. I like TurboCAD and will > likely upgrade to their 3D version when the price comes down. > > > > I knew from Mike Cuy's posts on this list that many of the > fittings need to be a bit longer. On some fittings I think this > is due to not allowing for the bend allowance when they were > drawn. On others, I just don't know why. So when drawing each > fitting I included the bend allowance (even put in bend lines) as > shown in "Making Fittings" by Tony Bingelis ( The Sport Plane > Builder Book from the EAA [catch that reference Mike?]). > > > > It worked well to glue on the printed fitting templates and cut > them out. After cutting, grinding then sanding you end up with a > fitting that is very close to the drawing. The crosshair in the > bolt hole is very helpful in placing a dimple exactly where the > plans show the center of the hole. But there is the problem, not > all the fittings I've made seem to fit my fuselage and tail like I > think they should. Fortunately, a much wiser builder then I told > me not to make the fitting until I need them, just for this > reason. I think the problem lies in the way the plans were drawn > and the inaccuracies of building. Now, I am not saying the plans > are wrong. All I am saying is that in places the fitting could > fit the location better. > > > > So here is what I now do. I make a template using cardboard, > paper, light aluminum or whatever is handy, right on the completed > structural element. I make my template large enough to layout the > holes where the plans say to do it. Then I adjust the center of > these holes to the best spot on the structure. Usually this is to > the centerline of the wood member or away from a glue joint. I > then adjust the outside dimension of the fitting to maintain the > setback away from the edge. Holes hanging out in space I located > per the drawing but a bit farther away (ie longer tabs, as Mike > suggests). I mostly follow the plans but the CAD drawings were, > for me, a waste of time. The thing about fittings is you need to > look at what they are supposed to do and make them fit your plane > not the plans. > > > > If I can, I do all the bending before drilling any holes. As for > holes, leave them undersize clamp them in place and drill the > matching holes on the wood member. Then I do the final trimming > down to the correct shape and size. On doubled up fittings (you > know where there is one on the inside and one on the outside) only > drill holes on one then clamp both on the fuselage drill an > undersize hole all the way through the other fitting. Then > enlarge the hole to the proper size and then finish to the shape > and size. > > > > That's the way I see it. Now I haven't made that many fittings > yet so this might be my problem and more experienced builders may > not encounter this. I'm new to metal work but I'm finding the > learning curve to be fun. My wood construction is as close as I > can come but trust me I know it's not perfect. > > > > Oh, one more thing, because I feel that this advice, to not build > the fittings first, has saved me a bunch of money, I have chosen > to not give out the CAD files because I would feel terrible if > someone used them to make the fittings and they did not fit. > > > > Sorry about the long post > > > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: making metal fittings
Date: Feb 09, 2006
I made a small aluminum bracket to attach to one of the cabane struts on 41CC, to mount a small mirror (don't laugh). It's one of the small round mirrors that you stick on to your vehicle's outside rear-view mirror to get a wider view of what's behind you. I like to be able to 'check six' in case the Red Baron is slipping up behind me ;o) Actually, it helps with preflight, you can see the flippers flipping, and when you hit the smoke you can watch your smoke trail to keep it straight ;o) Anyway, after trying several different products to make the small template for the bracket, I got the best results using the carton from a 12-pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon. Don't laugh; it's good stuff. The carton, that is. Well, the PBR is, too. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Making Metal Fittings
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
Jack! You forgot the frozen Pizza boxes. "The only thing I can add is that I found an ideal source of pattern cardboard to be a 12 pack or case of Budweiser." Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: making metal fittings
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I must confess to having a small mirror on the rear cabane for exactly this purpose. It also helped at Oshkosk- helped to terrify me to realize just how close that burly spinning prop was to my fragile tailfeathers as we taxied out in a scrunched line... Objects are closer than they appear! Yikes! Steve e -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: making metal fittings I made a small aluminum bracket to attach to one of the cabane struts on 41CC, to mount a small mirror (don't laugh). It's one of the small round mirrors that you stick on to your vehicle's outside rear-view mirror to get a wider view of what's behind you. I like to be able to 'check six' in case the Red Baron is slipping up behind me ;o) Actually, it helps with preflight, you can see the flippers flipping, and when you hit the smoke you can watch your smoke trail to keep it straight ;o) Anyway, after trying several different products to make the small template for the bracket, I got the best results using the carton from a 12-pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon. Don't laugh; it's good stuff. The carton, that is. Well, the PBR is, too. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: making metal fittings
The Spitfires during the WWII used mirrors and I think the Hurricanes did as well.Good idea;I think I'll do the same,thanks. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > I made a small aluminum bracket to attach to one of the cabane struts on > 41CC, to mount a small mirror (don't laugh). It's one of the small round > mirrors that you stick on to your vehicle's outside rear-view mirror to get > a wider view of what's behind you. I like to be able to 'check six' in case > the Red Baron is slipping up behind me ;o) Actually, it helps with > preflight, you can see the flippers flipping, and when you hit the smoke you > can watch your smoke trail to keep it straight ;o) > > Anyway, after trying several different products to make the small template > for the bracket, I got the best results using the carton from a 12-pack of > Pabst Blue Ribbon. Don't laugh; it's good stuff. The carton, that is. > Well, the PBR is, too. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: making metal fittings
Date: Feb 09, 2006
I also have a small round mirror attached to the cabane for the the same reasons as others. I bought one at a Bike shop and used cable ties to attach. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Making Metal Fittings
Date: Feb 09, 2006
I'd use Sleaman's. It would be a shame to dump out all that Bud just to get the case. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sayre, William G Sent: February 9, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making Metal Fittings Jack! You forgot the frozen Pizza boxes. "The only thing I can add is that I found an ideal source of pattern cardboard to be a 12 pack or case of Budweiser." Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Mirrors on airplanes
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com>
I had a mirror on the strut of my tow-plane to verify that the cable with grappling hook hadn't caught on the rudder horn before I hooked the banner during a high-speed low pass. Heard about one pilot that crashed from the pull of the banner torqueing the rudder to one side and stalling during the turn. Even an F-15 has three mirrors around the windshield bow! Only fitting that a Pietenpol escort/pursuit ship have one. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Mirrors on airplanes
> > Even an F-15 has three mirrors around the windshield bow! Only fitting > that a Pietenpol escort/pursuit ship have one. > Yeah, we used to have mirrors around the canopy bow on the F-4. We never had a chance to use them, though. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: passing lane
Mirrors are a good idea since most Pietenpols get passed up by most other airplanes........ in case you want to change lanes. I did have the extreme pleasure of passing up the Goodyear blimp 'Spirit of Akron' a few years ago and several hot air balloons. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Florida Piet project on ebay
This one is pretty far along and really not a bad price....... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ63679QQitemZ4611674341QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fuel tank measurements
Fellow Pieter's: I have the unique opportunity to have aluminum fuel tanks manufactured from my in-law/outlaw who has all the necessary tools to make a nice fuel cell. Can a fellow Pieter's send me a drawing or thereof all the necessary measurements to have this prototype created. Since I will put forth all the materials and labor to have this tank made.....I thought it would be nice to create a pattern and offer fellow Pieter's the opportunity to purchase an quality inexpensive fuel tank. Thoughts? Lastly, I plan on creating either a wing reserve tanks or a header tank depending on the room and size to work within. So....send me your information, tab locations, height, width, depth etc.....since I do not have my center section built. My in-law/outlaw is a excellent fabricator who will have my calibrated eye looking over his shoulder which equals perfection! Ken H village idiot Fargo, ND --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 2006
Subject: Re: passing lane
In a message dated 2/9/2006 3:30:02 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: Mirrors are a good idea since most Pietenpols get passed up by most other airplanes........ in case you want to change lanes. Or, maybe spot the impending bird strike...from the rear !! ;) Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn geometry
This past Saturday I went out to my local EAA chaper (54, Lake Elmo) and had a friend (and my technical advisor) weld new ears onto my elevator horns. The original, to-plans, bent ears were in bad shape and showing signs of stress when I removed them off the project. I haven't done any welding yet, so I didn't want to try tackling .032 steel as my first test. Today I test fit the elevator horn and checked to see how the cable connection holes aligned with the Vi Kapler hinges I have. What I found out was that with the current set-up the hinge pivot point does not line up with the elevator holes. I figure that there is about 3/16" difference in the holes - which translates to about 1/16" difference in travel when moved 20 degrees. This doesn't seem like much, but I'm wondering if the pivot offset on the bellcrack will increase that. I'll work on figuring that out. So my real question is - how much attention should we pay toward having our pivoting controls in line and symetrical? It seems like even a 1/16th in would introduce a noticable amount of slack in control cables. I'm attaching a picture not knowing if it will make it through. Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2006
From: "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Re: Fuel tank measurements
Ken, This is likely not as detailed as you want, but you can get an ideal of the dimensions of my current tanks at http://mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesPlanes/mykit64.jpg http://mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesPlanes/mykit66.jpg Hope it helps Kirk >>> kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com 02/09/06 4:22 PM >>> Fellow Pieter's: I have the unique opportunity to have aluminum fuel tanks manufactured from my in-law/outlaw who has all the necessary tools to make a nice fuel cell. Can a fellow Pieter's send me a drawing or thereof all the necessary measurements to have this prototype created. Since I will put forth all the materials and labor to have this tank made.....I thought it would be nice to create a pattern and offer fellow Pieter's the opportunity to purchase an quality inexpensive fuel tank. Thoughts? Lastly, I plan on creating either a wing reserve tanks or a header tank depending on the room and size to work within. So....send me your information, tab locations, height, width, depth etc.....since I do not have my center section built. My in-law/outlaw is a excellent fabricator who will have my calibrated eye looking over his shoulder which equals perfection! Ken H village idiot Fargo, ND --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 2006
Subject: Re: Elevator horn geometry
In a message dated 2/9/2006 5:01:38 PM Central Standard Time, Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org writes: So my real question is - how much attention should we pay toward having our pivoting controls in line and symetrical? It seems like even a 1/16th in would introduce a noticable amount of slack in control cables. Kirk, The plans built flipper horns, and bellcrank, will have slack in the lower cable, when in the neutral position. The holes in the horn, and pivot point all line up. The cables tighten up when in the up, or down position. Ken Perkins laid out a bellcrank that pretty much eliminated this condition of slack / tight in the original plans. However, in your case, I think it will aggravate this condition, and I think the only way you will know for sure, is to lay out cardboard templets made from 12 pack beer carriers, pin the pivot points of the horn and bellcrank to a surface that has the plans dimension between them, tie your string to simulate the cables, and see what happens when you move the templets through the arc. I would caution you to take the dimensions of your actual plane, rather than rely on what is called out in the plans. These Pietenpols...they're all different !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: passing lane
Date: Feb 09, 2006
Mark I have bad news for you - You will get passed by 150's in a Piet. I sometimes fly with a friend, he in his Cub with an A-65. We match speed pretty closely. Once in a while I fly race track patterns at 700 ft over some of the local freeways. It's amazing how traffic slows down. Dick N. Everyone talks about how slow a Piet is, but I used to get passed in 150s all the time by school busses on the ground. Man was that embarassing lol Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: passing lane
Getting passed by a 150 isn't embarassing. At least its an airplane. You should have seen some of the old school busses though. lol ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: passing lane Mark I have bad news for you - You will get passed by 150's in a Piet. I sometimes fly with a friend, he in his Cub with an A-65. We match speed pretty closely. Once in a while I fly race track patterns at 700 ft over some of the local freeways. It's amazing how traffic slows down. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: fuel tank measurements
Date: Feb 10, 2006
The fuel tank for NX41CC is out of the airplane and is easy to measure and photograph and I'll be glad to do it, but I'll tell you this- it might not fit many (any?) other Piets. For example, if you have a Ford "A" engine, it won't work because the Ford uses the shelf space for the magneto to extend into while the A65 doesn't. This fuel tank also extends very nearly from longeron to longeron in the port-to-starboard direction, and I've already found in rebuilding the firewall that anything other than very flexible wires that go through the firewall, have to be snug up against the sides of the fuselage or they won't clear the fuel tank. This is fine if you are able to route your controls and cables to the extreme sides of the fuselage. That said, the fuel tank on 41CC is very well constructed (welded aluminum), simple, lightweight, and I have seen no evidence of leaks or repairs... and NO sloshing compound. The inside is shiny clean. It holds about 16 US gallons, has a J-3 style float-and-rod quantity indicator that Corky marked in 1-gallon increments with very small notches filed in the brass rod. I checked calibration of the float and rod and found it dead-on. I intended to paint the indicator rod with the last 3 gallons' worth being painted red as a "you'd better find a level place to land this thing", the next 3 gallons to be painted yellow for, "you'd better find a field with fuel within 20 miles of here", and the rest of it green. And although I did this (epoxy paint), I found that Corky, always Mr. Conservative, did not figure the last 1.5 to 2 gallons in the tank to be usable. When the indicator rod bottoms out, there can be a gallon or two of fuel still in the tank. However, that remaining fuel really shouldn't even be considered part of a 30-minute reserve because when the fuel level is that low in the tank, the fuel valve outlet could become unported in a turn from downwind to base or base to final. So... only the top 1" or so of the indicator rod is painted red and I hope never to be tempted to fly into the 2 gallons that supposedly remain when I run out of indicator rod. But it's there and I've measured it and in level flight it will feed into the finger strainer and fuel valve. PS- I've decided to install a small mirror for the front cockpit as well. It will allow the rear-seater to see the face of the passenger and vice-versa. Could be useful. Now I have to empty a Pabst 12-pack carton to generate some material to make the template for the mounting bracket from ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 2006
Subject: lift struts
Hello group, I'm getting ready to order lift strut material.Ican't find any used cub struts here, so can anybody suggest what size and wall thickness to use? thanks, Robert Bush ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2006
From: Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: lift struts
Hi Robert: Here are two links that might help. http://www.sky-tek.com/struts.html and http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/03-13-04.htm Bill - On 2/11/06, RBush96589(at)aol.com wrote: > > Hello group, I'm getting ready to order lift strut material.Ican't find > any used cub struts here, so can anybody suggest what size and wall > thickness to use? > thanks, Robert Bush > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2006
Subject: [ Ben Ramler ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ben Ramler Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Future Piet http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ben_ramler2002@yahoo.com.02.11.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2006
Subject: [ Richard Lamb ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Richard Lamb Lists: Pietenpol-List,Homebuilt-List Subject: Texas Parasol - Complete Construction Plans http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/cavelamb@earthlink.net.02.11.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: lift struts
Date: Feb 11, 2006
Hey Robert If you arn't in a real hurry on that, I have seen sets of Cub struts at the Fly Mart at Sun N Fun, cheap every year. Thats 6 weeks from now. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts Hello group, I'm getting ready to order lift strut material.Ican't find any used cub struts here, so can anybody suggest what size and wall thickness to use? thanks, Robert Bush ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: lift struts
Date: Feb 11, 2006
I bought mine at Oshkosh a few yrs ago for $25 ea and had 8 to choose from. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lift struts Hey Robert If you arn't in a real hurry on that, I have seen sets of Cub struts at the Fly Mart at Sun N Fun, cheap every year. Thats 6 weeks from now. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts Hello group, I'm getting ready to order lift strut material.Ican't find any used cub struts here, so can anybody suggest what size and wall thickness to use? thanks, Robert Bush ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 2006
Subject: lift struts
Thanks for the input on the struts.I guess I will take a look at sun-n-fun and if I cant find any there I'll go with the aluminum,I like the system D.J used,also cheaper if the size 4130 I was looking at is correct- $19.70 per foot. Thanks again, Robert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Brodhead Flyin
Fellow Pieters: I thought I could put in my request for a ride to Brodhead"s Pietenpol fly-in this year. Qualifications: 6' tall, 265 lbs. (some fat some muscle and some everything else) good conversationalist, former resident of that area for 3 years, some bling bling for fuel, and single with no baggage......any takers? Just looking to see if I can catch a ride with someone and split the costs..... Village idiot Ken Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rib Question (Yeah Another One)
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2006
Hi, I'm still fiddling the rib jig. I drew it out again on a slightly larger board. I drew in the spars and braces so I can plan where the clamps will go and ran into another quandry. 1. Using 3/4" thick spars changes the measurements a little. I placed the aft side of the leading edge spar and the front side of the trailing edge spar in the same position the 1" spar would be. I figured the fuel tank dimensions and others depend on that being 27 3/4" between them. Is that right? 2. The original wing drawings show blocks (wedges) between the spar and the capstrip on the top of both spars. According to the measurements I've made (and I double-checked) if the rear spar is 4 3/4" tall, not only will I not need the spruce blocks, but I'll have to chamfer the top edge of the spar to make it fit. Am I doing something wrong? Somebody told me there is a low spot in the plans. I just finished my bending jig so after I steam a piece and set the bend, I'll put it on the board and see if maybe there is a discrepancy with the measurements on the plans. I think a low spot will show up with a piece of wood laying over the drawn measurements. I've seen a couple of exceptions with the given dimensions so I'm hoping this is just another slight plans error. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks! -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11742#11742 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Rib Question (Yeah Another One)
In a message dated 2/12/2006 8:31:35 PM Central Standard Time, glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com writes: 1. Using 3/4" thick spars changes the measurements a little. I placed the aft side of the leading edge spar and the front side of the trailing edge spar in the same position the 1" spar would be. I figured the fuel tank dimensions and others depend on that being 27 3/4" between them. Is that right? Glen, The spar centerline is what should be maintained. I used 3/4" Douglas Fir Spars, and used 1/8" plywood shims on the front and back sides of each spar, thus maintaining the spar centerline, (which according to my notes, came out to be about 28 1/16" to 28 1/8" between the spars). Maintaining the centerline of the spars keeps the cabane / fuselage attach fittings, and the lower lift strut fittings all in alignment, thus giving the Pietenpol the unique ability to adjust the wing for and aft for Weight & Balance. In leu of the wedge above the front spar, I used a unique kind of an L shaped gusset there, that took the place of the wedge. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib Question (Yeah Another One)
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2006
Thanks Chuck, That answers my question about the location of the spars. Did you have any clearance between the rear spar and the top capstrip? Is that a low spot on the plans (mistake)? Somebody once told me that on the aft 1/3 of the wing there is one point about 1/8 too low. That is pretty much where the problem is. Thanks for helping out. Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11784#11784 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk>
Date: Feb 13, 2006
Subject: Starting Troubles
Chaps, The problem with my Piet was that I could EVENTUALLY get the C65 to run but only after a LOT of prop swinging, firing a few times then dying with the occasional bit of snatching and running backwards. Sound familiar to anyone? I knew it was rather cold at just below freezing and my compressions are not what they used to be, but it has been no problem at all in previous winters. I ruled out a Bendix mag problem because once started, it would run perfectly with a drop of about 75 RPM and no discernable difference between left and right and good static RPM of 2250 with my Sensenich 72-42. My thoughts therefore turned to mixture and I was just about to take the scary step of playing with some of those brass screws on the side of the carb when an old boy from the gliding club pointed out that there was absolutely no noise to indicate that the impulse coupling was working. I remained sceptical because there has never been a distinctive "click" as can be heard on some aircraft, and in any case the engine was firing - albeit only occasionally. Sure enough, after removal of the mag it became apparent that one of the pawls in the impulse coupling was very worn and would never engage, whilst the other one would occasionally do its thing, causing two cylinders to fire, but only for one or two cycles. I guess that explains the symptoms! Just heard from the overhaul shop that they are fitting a new impulse coupling, which hopefully will solve my problems. Anybody had any similar woes regarding mags and should I be looking for some other problem that may have caused premature impulse coupling failure? Idling speed is the usual 600 or so RPM on the ground, and it doesn't spend a lot of time ground idling. PS Whilst I'm posting has everybody seen this? Its a UK based AVTUR burning Pietenpol with impressive fuel economy. Pictures and video clip available. www.wilksch.com Mike Hayes G-BKVO Getting far too warm whilst grounded This message and any associated files sent by Denco Limited are confidential, and intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the IT Helpdesk by telephone immediately on 01432 377368 (UK) or +(44) 1432 377 368 (international) or return it to us by e-mail quoting the name of the sender and the address. Please also be advised that you have received this email in error and that any disclosure and/or use of the information contained within this email or attachments is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Denco Limited, its divisions and/or subsidiaries, unless otherwise specifically stated. Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted. They may therefore be liable to be compromised. This is an inherent risk in relation to e-mail. Denco Holdings Limited its divisions subsidiaries and divisions of subsidiaries do not, to the extent permitted by law, accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any changes made to this e-mail after it has been sent by the original sender, any external compromises of security and/or breaches of confidentiality in relation to transmissions sent by e-mail. We cannot to the extent permitted by law accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any damage sustained as a result of any software viruses and it is therefore your responsibility to scan the attachments (if any) and carry out your own virus check before opening any attachments. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starting Troubles
Date: Feb 13, 2006
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
going to full carb heat on cold days works wonders when hand propping too. stevee -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hayes, Mike Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles Chaps, The problem with my Piet was that I could EVENTUALLY get the C65 to run but only after a LOT of prop swinging, firing a few times then dying with the occasional bit of snatching and running backwards. Sound familiar to anyone? I knew it was rather cold at just below freezing and my compressions are not what they used to be, but it has been no problem at all in previous winters. I ruled out a Bendix mag problem because once started, it would run perfectly with a drop of about 75 RPM and no discernable difference between left and right and good static RPM of 2250 with my Sensenich 72-42. My thoughts therefore turned to mixture and I was just about to take the scary step of playing with some of those brass screws on the side of the carb when an old boy from the gliding club pointed out that there was absolutely no noise to indicate that the impulse coupling was working. I remained sceptical because there has never been a distinctive "click" as can be heard on some aircraft, and in any case the engine was firing - albeit only occasionally. Sure enough, after removal of the mag it became apparent that one of the pawls in the impulse coupling was very worn and would never engage, whilst the other one would occasionally do its thing, causing two cylinders to fire, but only for one or two cycles. I guess that explains the symptoms! Just heard from the overhaul shop that they are fitting a new impulse coupling, which hopefully will solve my problems. Anybody had any similar woes regarding mags and should I be looking for some other problem that may have caused premature impulse coupling failure? Idling speed is the usual 600 or so RPM on the ground, and it doesn't spend a lot of time ground idling. PS Whilst I'm posting has everybody seen this? Its a UK based AVTUR burning Pietenpol with impressive fuel economy. Pictures and video clip available. www.wilksch.com Mike Hayes G-BKVO Getting far too warm whilst grounded --- This message and any associated files sent by Denco Limited are confidential, and intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the IT Helpdesk by telephone immediately on 01432 377368 (UK) or +(44) 1432 377 368 (international) or return it to us by e-mail quoting the name of the sender and the address. Please also be advised that you have received this email in error and that any disclosure and/or use of the information contained within this email or attachments is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Denco Limited, its divisions and/or subsidiaries, unless otherwise specifically stated. Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted. They may therefore be liable to be compromised. This is an inherent risk in relation to e-mail. Denco Holdings Limited its divisions subsidiaries and divisions of subsidiaries do not, to the extent permitted by law, accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any changes made to this e-mail after it has been sent by the original sender, any external compromises of security and/or breaches of confidentiality in relation to transmissions sent by e-mail. We cannot to the extent permitted by law accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any damage sustained as a result of any software viruses and it is therefore your responsibility to scan the attachments (if any) and carry out your own virus check before opening any attachments. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Troubles
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles > > going to full carb heat on cold days works wonders when hand propping > too. > > stevee > Carb heat for most engines will do absolutely nothing till the engine is running. All it does is pull unfiltered air by the exhaust manifold to warm it before sending it to the in carb. All it will do till the engine is running is allow for something to get pulled into places you don't want it. Things like ice, slush ect can make for an annoying if not expensive day. When an engine doesn't start properly, there is a reason. Just because it will sooner or later go doesn't mean the problem is not there and rarely if ever do airplane parts wind up on a clearance sale. Might as well find and fix the problem. I suspected it might be the impluse coupler and the previous post confirmed it. That should fix the problem. Just be glad you only got tired arms to find. it. I know of one case where a company renting a 152 had the same problem with the same symptoms. They just kept cranking on it until they had to fix not only the impluse coupler which is expensive enough, but also had to replace the $500 starter to go with it. When an airplane does not work like it should, its trying to tell you something. Those that are wise listen. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Rib Question (Yeah Another One)
Date: Feb 13, 2006
Glenn Thats what I did .Chamfered the front & rear spar to match the ribs. elimating the wedges. D J in Mpls > [Original Message] > From: Glenn Thomas <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> > To: > Date: 2/12/2006 8:34:04 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Question (Yeah Another One) > > > Hi, > I'm still fiddling the rib jig. I drew it out again on a slightly larger board. I drew in the spars and braces so I can plan where the clamps will go and ran into another quandry. > > 1. Using 3/4" thick spars changes the measurements a little. I placed the aft side of the leading edge spar and the front side of the trailing edge spar in the same position the 1" spar would be. I figured the fuel tank dimensions and others depend on that being 27 3/4" between them. Is that right? > > 2. The original wing drawings show blocks (wedges) between the spar and the capstrip on the top of both spars. According to the measurements I've made (and I double-checked) if the rear spar is 4 3/4" tall, not only will I not need the spruce blocks, but I'll have to chamfer the top edge of the spar to make it fit. Am I doing something wrong? Somebody told me there is a low spot in the plans. I just finished my bending jig so after I steam a piece and set the bend, I'll put it on the board and see if maybe there is a discrepancy with the measurements on the plans. I think a low spot will show up with a piece of wood laying over the drawn measurements. I've seen a couple of exceptions with the given dimensions so I'm hoping this is just another slight plans error. > > Any feedback would be appreciated. > > Thanks! > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11742#11742 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Rib Question (Yeah Another One)
In a message dated 2/13/2006 3:24:42 AM Central Standard Time, glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com writes: Did you have any clearance between the rear spar and the top capstrip? Is that a low spot on the plans (mistake)? Somebody once told me that on the aft 1/3 of the wing there is one point about 1/8 too low. That is pretty much where the problem is. Yes, there is a slight wedge shaped cavity above the aft spar, but is not a problem, because the rib gussets carry the load. Do Not camphor the top of the aft spar. Yes, there is a low spot on the plans dimensions of the ribs...just blend it out with the top cap strip when you lay out the Rib Jig. Do Not nail down through the cap strips...I used T88 throughout the construction of the entire airframe, and held the ribs in the pre marked locations on the spars (so they don't move while the epoxy cures), with a couple of very tiny coated nails through the uprights. When you get the ribs complete, you are entitled to do the dance called 'The Rib Jig' !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib Question (Yeah Another One)
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2006
Thanks to both of you for your replies. I have a better idea for how this will go now. Without a background in aviation sometimes I feel like I have no business building this thing. After I saw Chuck's feedback on the positioning of the spars I thought "Of course, how stupid was I to ask that" but as ill equipped as I am, I do see this as a massive learning experience in an area I've wanted to explore since I was a high school kid and since there's no lack of passion to do this I guess I'll just expose myself as often as necessary to learn how it works. Thanks guys, Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=12001#12001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: picture wanted
Date: Feb 14, 2006
Anybody have a picture of a side view of a Piet (any Piet) with a passenger in the front cockpit? Please send it to me off-list or if it's on a webpage, send me the URL. I'm trying to get an idea of geometry and general physical arrangement. Thanks! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Starting Troubles.
I think Steve has a point in this posting. I have heard about it for long time. The reason could be that the carb heat, making the air go though all that places, makes it dificult and doing some suck of the gasoline in the carb, similar as a butterfly choke acts, orf the hand over the old grass cutter engine, this to get more gasoline in the system, Some pilots use it in cold weather when they think that too much primer could flood the engine with crude gasoline. Using the carb heat will finally make a little richer than normal air/gasoline mist go inside the ignition camera, helping the correct fire and for this reason the start of the engine. At least this is the way I have undertood it. I could be wrong. Saludos Gary Gower Mark Blackwell wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles > > going to full carb heat on cold days works wonders when hand propping > too. > > stevee > Carb heat for most engines will do absolutely nothing till the engine is running. All it does is pull unfiltered air by the exhaust manifold to warm it before sending it to the in carb. All it will do till the engine is running is allow for something to get pulled into places you don't want it. Things like ice, slush ect can make for an annoying if not expensive day. When an engine doesn't start properly, there is a reason. Just because it will sooner or later go doesn't mean the problem is not there and rarely if ever do airplane parts wind up on a clearance sale. Might as well find and fix the problem. I suspected it might be the impluse coupler and the previous post confirmed it. That should fix the problem. Just be glad you only got tired arms to find. it. I know of one case where a company renting a 152 had the same problem with the same symptoms. They just kept cranking on it until they had to fix not only the impluse coupler which is expensive enough, but also had to replace the $500 starter to go with it. When an airplane does not work like it should, its trying to tell you something. Those that are wise listen. Mark --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet side view
Date: Feb 15, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Can't remember who requested, but here is a side view picture I took at Brodhead in 04. Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: picture wanted
I hope this helps a little;it's the only one I could find. Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Anybody have a picture of a side view of a Piet (any Piet) with a passenger > in the front cockpit? Please send it to me off-list or if it's on a > webpage, send me the URL. I'm trying to get an idea of geometry and general > physical arrangement. > > Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Starting Troubles.
Gary Carb heat only enriches the mixture when there is actually some heat there to apply. The heat from most systems comes from the exhaust manifold. Hot air is less dense than cold air so the fuel air mixture is enriched. Unless the engine has run enough to warm the exhaust system, there is no heat. The same thing can happen with an engine failure due to carb ice. Unless the heat is applied fairly quickly after the failure, the engine exhaust manifold can cool and then no heat is available leaving you with an unplanned landing. The heat comes from switching the path the air takes to the carb at the carb heat box. It does by pass the filter though and if a filter is clogged, it will breath more freely. Well I guess it would at any time but it shouldn't be significant if all is well with the filter. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles. I think Steve has a point in this posting. I have heard about it for long time. The reason could be that the carb heat, making the air go though all that places, makes it dificult and doing some suck of the gasoline in the carb, similar as a butterfly choke acts, orf the hand over the old grass cutter engine, this to get more gasoline in the system, Some pilots use it in cold weather when they think that too much primer could flood the engine with crude gasoline. Using the carb heat will finally make a little richer than normal air/gasoline mist go inside the ignition camera, helping the correct fire and for this reason the start of the engine. At least this is the way I have undertood it. I could be wrong. Saludos Gary Gower Mark Blackwell wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Eldredge" To: Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Starting Troubles > > going to full carb heat on cold days works wonders when hand propping > too. > > stevee > Carb heat for most engines will do absolutely nothing till the engine is running. All it does is pull unfiltered air by the exhaust manifold to warm it before sending it to the in carb. All it will do till the engine is running is allow for something to get pulled into places you don't want it. Things like ice, slush ect can make for an annoying if n ot expensive day. When an engine doesn't start properly, there is a reason. Just because it will sooner or later go doesn't mean the problem is not there and rarely if ever do airplane parts wind up on a clearance sale. Might as well find and fix the problem. I suspected it might be the impluse coupler and the previous post confirmed it. That should fix the problem. Just be glad you only got tired arms to find. it. I know of one case where a company renting a 152 had the same problem with the same symptoms. They just kept cranking on it until they had to fix not only the impluse coupler which is expensive enough, but also had to replace the $500 starter to go with it. When an airplane does not work like it should, its trying to tell you something. Those that are wise listen. Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Carb Heat
Trying to start the engine with the carb heat on, which should be permanently on with a Model A powered Piet, shouldn't have an effect on starting. There is little resistance to the intake air when hand propping...unless you've actually got an air filter in the intake and it is extremely dirty. Assuming you've got air and fuel (and no water contamination) to the engine, then the only thing left would be ignition --- either weak or no spark or the timing is off...or weak compression. That's how I'd approach a hard starting engine...my 2 cents...if the carb float is off it may flood or it should at least fire, though it may quit... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: Carb Heat
If the gas is old,it will also cause hard starting. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: photos
Date: Feb 15, 2006
Thanks to all who responded. To those who posted a photo to the list and not to my email personally... I'll never see it! I'm on the digest version of the list, which does not pass attachments through. I got a beautiful side view picture of Mike Hayes riding passenger in Bill Rewey's Piet. Should give me the info I needed. Also got a very useful picture of a lovely lady riding passenger in Mike Cuy's Piet. Mike seems to be a chick magnet with his airplane, not to mention that he is now infamous for that clip on his video where he provides a helping hand to a female's backside to get her into the passenger cockpit. You'll never live that one down, Mike ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: photos
Date: Feb 15, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Oscar, You CAN see the photos. Just use the Matronics Forum (use this link) http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=2ed4da73b54366540c0d90 5c0d06a3a6 Attachments are there, so Digest subscribers can see them without needing to be subscribed to the real-time List. Bill -----Original Message----- --> To those who posted a photo to the list and not to my email personally... I'll never see it! I'm on the digest version of the list, which does not pass attachments through. Oscar Zuniga ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kmordecai001(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Starting troubles
Date: Feb 16, 2006
Hi Folks, On the recent posts on hard starting, I've found that the old Stromberg NAS-3 needs it's idle mixture richened up about 1/4 to 1/2 turn in the cold weather. I had overhauled the carb as per the manual, installed the steel needle, and set the float level by the book last summer. Ran great, plugs were perfect, idle mixture screw was at about 1 turn (set for best hot idle, like the book says). Pull thru 4-5 blades, switch on, crack the throttle, and she'd pop right off and idle, although a little rough until it warmed up. Now that it's cold (well, as cold as it gets around here), she'll pop right off, run for 4-5 seconds, and die. This would be repeated a couple of times until she would finally stay running (carb heat on). Opened up the idle mixture 1/4 turn or so yesterday and it's about 90% better. Still died once, but stayed running on the second attempt. My old BMW motorcycle needs seasonal idle mixture tweaks, and so did the old Porsche, so I suppose this is to be expected with a simple carb with no manifold heat. My 2 cent's worth :-) Dave Mordecai Panacea, FL Hi Folks, On the recent posts on hard starting, I've found that the old Stromberg NAS-3 needs it's idle mixture richened up about 1/4 to 1/2 turn in the cold weather. I had overhauled the carb as per the manual, installed the steel needle, and set the float level by the booklast summer.Ran great, plugs were perfect, idle mixture screw was at about 1turn (set for best hot idle, like the book says). Pull thru 4-5 blades, switch on, crack the throttle, and she'd pop right off and idle, although a little rough until it warmed up. Now that it's cold (well, as cold as it gets around here), she'll pop right off, run for 4-5 seconds, and die. This would be repeated a couple of times until she would finally stay running (carb heat on). Opened up the idle mixture 1/4 turn or so yesterday and it's about 90% better. Still died once, but stayed running on the second attempt. My old BMW motorcycle needs seasonal idle mixture tweaks, and so did the old Porsche, so I suppose this is to be expected with a simple carb with no manifold heat. My 2 cent's worth :-) Dave Mordecai Panacea, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft?
Date: Feb 16, 2006
Some time back I purchased a Corvair crank with a prop hub and safety shaft that according to the seller was installed by Bernard himself. I have a better crank that I intend to use instead and I would like to remove the safety shaft from the crank that the hub came with in order to reuse it on my good crank. This may be more of a Corvaircraft list question, but since it is a Bernard Pietenpol installation, I figure the answer may well reside within the epistemological plurality of this board. I have just been informed of the possibility that the safety shaft may be cross pinned to the crank underneath the crank timing gear/ hub. Can anyone on this list confirm this information? Michael Silvius Scarborough, Maine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft?
Date: Feb 16, 2006
I don't know about epistemological plurality, but the Pietenpol Corvair conversion drawings that I have don't show a cross-pin through the safety shaft under the gear. That was a William Wynne enhancement. If yours is a true Pietenpol hub conversion, the safety shaft should be simply threaded into the crank nose. Anybody else see a cross-pin? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Feb 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft?
I agree. I don't see any cross pin on my plans either. My corvair was converted per Pietenpol's plans and I did not install any pins. JIM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft?
Date: Feb 16, 2006
If it is locktighted in, just heat to 300 F and remove. Be sure to wait till your wife goes to the store before you poke that crankshaft in the kitchen oven for a half hour or so. If not, she may remind you of this for the rest of your life. bed ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft? > > > Some time back I purchased a Corvair crank with a prop hub and safety > shaft > that according to the seller was installed by Bernard himself. I have a > better crank that I intend to use instead and I would like to remove the > safety shaft from the crank that the hub came with in order to reuse it on > my good crank. This may be more of a Corvaircraft list question, but since > it is a Bernard Pietenpol installation, I figure the answer may well > reside > within the epistemological plurality of this board. I have just been > informed of the possibility that the safety shaft may be cross pinned to > the > crank underneath the crank timing gear/ hub. Can anyone on this list > confirm > this information? > > Michael Silvius > > Scarborough, Maine > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft?
Date: Feb 16, 2006
Oscar et all: Many thanks for the responses, I have my answer. Per plans, and per Mr. Dan Wilson on this list who just spoke w/ Vi Kapler. Vi worked with B. Pietenpol through the 1970s, and he confirmed that "Bernard never removed a crank gear from any crankshaft that he ever used for an aircraft" and thus no X pins would be beneath the timing gear. This is good information. It means I can easily pull and reuse the safety shaft on my good crank. I shall use the oven for heat to 300 deg as recommended, once I locate a suitable size lock nut. thanks to you all: Michael Silvius in Scarborough, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft? > > I don't know about epistemological plurality, but the Pietenpol Corvair > conversion drawings that I have don't show a cross-pin through the safety > shaft under the gear. That was a William Wynne enhancement. If yours is a > true Pietenpol hub conversion, the safety shaft should be simply threaded > into the crank nose. > > Anybody else see a cross-pin? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: height
Hello Listers, Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger? Thanks for the input, Ben Ramler SW Minnesota --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft?
Date: Feb 16, 2006
In the William Wynne manual he talks about how an engineer explained to him that it was a stress riser and he hasn't used one since. He just says to use locktite. Look at page 35 of the WW Conversion Manual for his discussion on the topic. Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair/ B. Pietenpol installed saftey shaft? > > I don't know about epistemological plurality, but the Pietenpol Corvair > conversion drawings that I have don't show a cross-pin through the safety > shaft under the gear. That was a William Wynne enhancement. If yours is a > true Pietenpol hub conversion, the safety shaft should be simply threaded > into the crank nose. > > Anybody else see a cross-pin? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: height
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Ben There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North of St. Paul. On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know some have carried much more. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: height Hello Listers, Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger? Thanks for the input, Ben Ramler SW Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: using oven
After you use your oven to heat the part, clean the oven with oven cleaner. Then, while the wife is still out, bake a cheap cake or loaf of bread in it. Then throw this loaf away. Open the kitchen window during all these processes. Never tell the wife of any of this. I know about trouble. Many years ago I used the home oven to unwarp 50-60 thin lathe-turned steel parts. Even after cleaning beforehand, they had miniscule cutting oil residue (water soluble "monkey milk") on them. I cleaned the oven as carefully as I could afterwards, but the next baking experience was a disaster, and I heard about it for years, as was noted on this board. Once the cake absorbed the fumes, all was OK, except for the cake. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: using oven
After you use your oven to heat the part, clean the oven with oven cleaner. Then, while the wife is still out, bake a cheap cake or loaf of bread in it. Then throw this loaf away. Open the kitchen window during all these processes. Never tell the wife of any of this. I know about trouble. Many years ago I used the home oven to unwarp 50-60 thin lathe-turned steel parts. Even after cleaning beforehand, they had miniscule cutting oil residue (water soluble "monkey milk") on them. I cleaned the oven as carefully as I could afterwards, but the next baking experience was a disaster, and I heard about it for years, as was noted on this board. Once the cake absorbed the fumes, all was OK, except for the cake. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: height
Thanks Dick, When you say weight is an issue what would you or others say the max weight would be for someone sitting in the front? Dick Navratil wrote: Ben There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North of St. Paul. On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know some have carried much more. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: height Hello Listers, Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger? Thanks for the input, Ben Ramler SW Minnesota --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Landing Gear strength
I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs, instead of bungees. I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out. As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here. Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind? Thanks. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Landing Gear strength
I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs, instead of bungees. I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out. As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here. Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind? Thanks. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Subject: Re: height
I flew a guy who was at least 250. ROC was a little slow but I never had any doubt it would fly. My plane is about 625 empty and powered with a Corvair. The day I flew the guy was about 80 F with about 10 gal. fuel. Runway was grass, 2400 ft. long JIM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing Gear strength
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Tim, I have the setup as you described, original Pietenpol split landing gear with compression spring in place of bungees. I have the same concern is it really strong enough? Although it's my own welding quality that I question most. So far only about 15 hours flying with about 30 or more Landings (short flights and some Touch and Go's) But one of-field landing in a freshly harvest cornfield, no stalks just 6 to 8 inch ruts, and I landed across the ruts. Some bouncy landings, flaring to soon and stalling a foot or so high. So far nothing bend or broken. When I have made a less than smooth landing I will inspect the landing gear for cracks or other distortions. Plus every few flights you typically end up cleaning the landing gear and a inspection goes with it. I believe the design is pretty sound. The only recommendation that I can give you: make strong welding, two layers if needed. And stress relief the welding afterwards. Plus Inspect frequently specially during the test phase Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: max passenger weight
Ben-- I'd like to chime in here by saying that there are some huge variables that dictate how much a particular Pietenpol can carry in the front cockpit and I'll list the ones I think are important: 1) Your airplane's empty weight. The more the empty weight, the less useful load, the smaller your passenger has to be. This is really a big deal in a Piet so unless you really need a starter, battery, generator, alternator, wheel pants, radios, air conditioning (scratch that---it comes standard) ILS marker beacons, strobes, front cockpit instruments, and upholstered sidewalls, don't add them ! 2) Engine performance-- I have seen souped up Model A Piets take 175 lb. passengers up on warm days, but a standard Model A that is weak or has seen better days...be careful. A Corvair or 65 Continental are subject to the same issues when considering carry a passenger---how strong is the engine ? When my engine was new I took my 205 pound brother flying on an 80 degree day from a 2700 foot grass strip with 1/2 tank of fuel (8.5 gallons) but after putting 400 plus hours on it the engine is not as strong and I wouldn't ever consider doing that ride under the same conditions. I could probably carry a 140 pound person out of that strip today, same weather. 3) Fuel Load & OAT On 80 F days when taking a passenger I fly with a partial fuel tank. My normal fuel holds 17 gallons or 102 pounds. With 7 gallons on board I reduce the planes takeoff weight by 60 pounds--that is a big help. Temperature/density altitude greatly affect takeoff performance with a passenger---be choosy and pick the thinner folks. 4) Rigging/wing area An improperly rigged Piet will be fighting excess drag and decreased efficiency in all phases of flight, reducing the planes ability to lift by a certain factor. Planes like Bill Rewey's of Madison, Wisconsin, that are equipped with a stock 65 hp Continental engine but have added 3 foot (I believe it is three feet) of wingspan can lift more weight on less power on warmer days. 5) Runway conditions Flying off of pavement is pretty much the same everywhere, but when you take a passenger out of a grass airport simple things like taller grass, short grass, softer sod, firm soil, and tire inflation pressures play very important roles in passenger selection/decisions. MIke ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear strength
I have the same setup as you and would like to switch to springs as well.What kind or type of springs did you use.Is there a part number or name for them.I would like to weld them in place of the bungees.I just don't trust those bungees.They appear to be an accident looking for a place to happen ,to me.Thanks. Hans Vander Voort wrote: > > > Tim, > > I have the setup as you described, original Pietenpol split landing gear > with compression spring in place of bungees. > I have the same concern is it really strong enough? > Although it's my own welding quality that I question most. > > So far only about 15 hours flying with about 30 or more Landings (short > flights and some Touch and Go's) > > But one of-field landing in a freshly harvest cornfield, no stalks just 6 > to 8 inch ruts, and I landed across the ruts. > Some bouncy landings, flaring to soon and stalling a foot or so high. > > So far nothing bend or broken. > > When I have made a less than smooth landing I will inspect the landing gear > for cracks or other distortions. > Plus every few flights you typically end up cleaning the landing gear and a > inspection goes with it. > > I believe the design is pretty sound. > The only recommendation that I can give you: make strong welding, two > layers if needed. > And stress relief the welding afterwards. > > Plus Inspect frequently specially during the test phase > > Hans > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing Gear strength
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Harvey, Follow the link: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=75 Or if the link does not work go to mykitplane.com, under files section and my name you can find the same file Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: height
Dick, Any chance to see pics of the full canopy? Don't care what it looks like, I'd build it and use it. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height Ben There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North of St. Paul. On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know some have carried much more. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: height Hello Listers, Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger? Thanks for the input, Ben Ramler SW Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear strength
Tim I also wanted Cub style gear on my Piet with springs. Since the GN-1 gear is really just reverse engineered Cub gear I bougth a set of GN-1 plans and merged the two designs. Haven't heard of a lot of Cubs breaking their gear. To prevent prop and fuselage damage if a main gear collapses I have heard of people installing a safety cable between the two axles (although I have never seen one on a Piet), has anyone installed something like this? You will also notice in the picture that I went for bolt on axles which can be shimmed later if my measuring, cutting, grinding, and/or welding is off a bit (a very distinct possibility). Am using Matco axles and wheels. Rick H On 2/17/06, Tim Willis wrote: > > I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die > springs, instead of bungees. > > I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in > Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case > the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right > LG to splay out. > > As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack > a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, > whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable > winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little > insurance here. > > Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone > done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind? > > Thanks. > > < BR> > > ------------------------------ > Use Photomail<http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D38867/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com>to share photos without annoying attachments. > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Subject: Re: height
The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if people can speak to that, it would be interesting. Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: height
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Last summer we flew NX18235 as follows: Empty weight - 616# Engine A-65 Pilot - 225# Passenger - 200# Fuel - 90# Baggage - 60# Temp about 80 - 85F It climbed about 200 - 250 fpm with a somewhat coarse prop. Greg Cardinal P.S. Ben Ramler, I've been trying to contact you off list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height > > > The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total > load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if > considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm > 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if > possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if > people can speak to that, it would be interesting. > > Tom B. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Need information
Fellow Pieter's: As I read through my Corvair builders manual from William Wynne I can across some parts that are not very clear in their description. Can any fellow corvair builders assist in part descriptions and where you purchased them?..... things such as coils, flywheel, starters,...etc..... I need more specific information in order to hit the parts store to purchase. Also, I do plan on buying certain parts from William Wynne.....just wanted to save $$ in parts I can buy locally and purchase machined part from him.... Any input is good input. Ken Heide Fargo, ND --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Need information
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Keith: Clarks corvairs is where you go. http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/pages.cgi?category=3Dhome there are a few others if you google, you'll find them. you also will want to sign up on the corvaircrafters buletin board. here is the directions on that one. http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html if you go to; http://mylist.net/listinfo/CorvAircraft http://mylist.net/archives/corvaircraft/ you can find a wealth of info on the corvaircrafters archives michael silvius scarborough, maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth M. Heide . Can any fellow corvair builders assist in part descriptions and where you purchased them?..... things such as coils, flywheel, starters,...etc..... I need more specific information in order to hit the parts store to purchase. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: height
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Hey Walt There were some pics on the list last winter sometime as part of a discussion on cold weather flying. I'll start going thru archives as I get a chance. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height Dick, Any chance to see pics of the full canopy? Don't care what it looks like, I'd build it and use it. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height Ben There is a Piet in Canada on skis. I have seen pics of Piets with a full canopy for winter flying. I'm in Mn and chose not to winter fly. Of course, watching the local weather at times SW MN. seems like the tropics compared to North of St. Paul. On height, I have seen guys around 6' 2" in the front seat. The bigger problem is weight. The tall guy would have to be pretty skinny. I havent tried carrying more than 175 lbs in front. Thats with min fuel and a cool day. I know some have carried much more. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: height Hello Listers, Let me ask a question. I think there was some talk of a persons height so let me ask what is the max height someone can be to fit in the front cockpit? Let me pose this again. Considering that in Minnesota that 4 months or so are really cold does anyone fly during the winter? Maybe the cub would be the next best choice. Has equipped their peit with a sling underneath or anything for carrying extra stuff if the front is taken by another passenger? Thanks for the input, Ben Ramler SW Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Need information
Ken, The blue bosch coil you can get from JCWhitney, see link: _http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=b osch+coil&searchbtn.x=11&searchbtn.y=10_ (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=bosch+coil&searchbtn.x=11&searchbtn.y10) All other ignition parts, sparkplug wires and coil switcher, from Summit racing, see link; _http://www.summitracing.com/_ (http://www.summitracing.com/) Of course Clarks for all corvair engine parts _http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main_ (http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main) Hope this helps. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2006
From: "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: height
Tom let me throw out some things for you to think about, many of them have already been mentioned. First engine selection and horsepower are going to vary so much that for a specific airplane its going to be different, maybe very different for each airplane. A strong 85 hp is going to have very different abilities than a A model needing work. The airframes are going to vary as well. A little rigging difference here, an angle variation could make very big differences in the what you can carry. Personally this is one of the things Id want to work out during the testing period at the longest runway with the least obstructions that I could find nearby. Record everything, Temp, wind, pressure, fuel loads, weight then actual performance in flight. Add weight just a little at a time so you don't find out you have an airplane that just simply will not go and if you even suspect much less have solid indications that it might not fly abort the takeoff. Work out the density altitudes so you can compare apples to apples with regards to performance and then decide what you are comfortable with an then don't exceed it for any reason. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height > > > The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total > load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if > considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm > 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if > possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if > people can speak to that, it would be interesting. > > Tom B. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)AOL.COM
Date: Feb 18, 2006
Subject: Re: height
In a message dated 2/17/2006 11:18:38 AM Central Standard Time, ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com writes: When you say weight is an issue what would you or others say the max weight would be for someone sitting in the front? I use a limited length on the front seat belt...If ya can't get it buckled, you're too fat to go !! :) Actually, last summer, I had a passenger in there that weighed 240 lbs, and he's about 6' 2". He had to really 'suck in the gut' to get the belt buckled, but he finally got it, and after 3 high speed taxi runs down the hard surface runway to see how the plane handled, off we went !! The Density Altitude was 2500', the temp was about 80=BA, and I had about a half load of fuel (10 gal.). It was a shallow climb rate, but the plane handled normally, during the 25 minute flight. It's really a lot of fun to see how enthusiastic my passengers are. I've probably had about 50 or 60 passengers, and every one of them really loved it !! I recently acquired a pair of headsets with a built in intercom, but have yet to use it in flight. Should open a whole new realm of enjoyment, now that I can use voice communication with my passenger...as opposed to hand signals !! I don't have the controls in the front cockpit, so I can more easily carry all the stuff for extended cross country flight, and besides that...I'm just not ready for my passenger to kill me !! As rule of thumb: You should be at 70% of the take off velocity, by the time you reach 50% of the available runway...if not, pull power, and you have plenty of runway to get 'er stopped. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 18, 2006
Subject: low speed lateral control (stall characteristics)
Tim Willis and I have been discussing a few things off list and lately about washout. For all of you guys with flying Piets, 1) how much washout do you have? 2) have you ever tried changing it any to see if handling is improved? I recently found an interesting article about the subject. (link below) It is a a NACA report done by engineers at Texas A&M in 1953 using washout tests on a Taylorcraft. (I have been trying to investigate to see if it was my Taylorcraft. It was owned by A&M at that time). Anyway - The tests looked at the effects of washout and slots on lateral control near stall. The washout was varied from zero to 8 degrees. They used tufts all across the top surface of the wing to detect disturbed airflow. The idea is to have the inboard and center section of the wing stall first with the singtips still flying, so that the ailerons remain effective throughout the stall. I believe the NACA report conclusion was that 4 degrees washout was optimal for the taylorcraft and thus recommended for light planes. http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1953/naca-tn-2948/index.cgi?thumbnail11 It might be interesting to consider tests of such on the Piet wing to determine its optimum. Any thoughts? Terry B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Feb 18, 2006
Subject: Landing Gear strength
Tom, I picked up N-1033B a couple years ago wrecked and cheap because the original builder under-engineered the cub style gear and didn't include the necessary stop cables so the gear tubes wouldn't expand beyond the bungees max strength. Couple recommendations----never ever undersize the bungees and their attachments to the gear, use the exact system the cub uses with the exact oversized bungees. You may get a little harder bounce on landing, but you can learn to grease landings, you cannot substitute underengineering for saving a few hunderd bucks on this part of the plane. The guy who put the most money into building N-1033B lost his investment to me for rebuilding due to an engine failure and an unexpected off-field landing that would have been sucessful if the gear had not expanded too far outboard and he didn't have safety stop cables. Wreck caused bent struts, wings and longerons. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: Tim Willis strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:18:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing Gear strength I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs, instead of bungees. I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out. As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here. Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind? Thanks. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: height
Greg you have been? my email is ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com Ben Ramler gcardinal wrote: Last summer we flew NX18235 as follows: Empty weight - 616# Engine A-65 Pilot - 225# Passenger - 200# Fuel - 90# Baggage - 60# Temp about 80 - 85F It climbed about 200 - 250 fpm with a somewhat coarse prop. Greg Cardinal P.S. Ben Ramler, I've been trying to contact you off list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: height > > > The real question is not just what the front can carry but what the total > load is? I understand there's weight and balance to be figured out but if > considered on weight alone, what's the max the plane can safely fly? I'm > 200 lbs and would like to carry passengers around the same weight if > possible... I'm sure it's different with different powerplants so if > people can speak to that, it would be interesting. > > Tom B. > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2006
From: "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Rudder horn location
Pieters: Have any of you ever experimented with the vertical position of the rudder horn? I've located it about where the plans indicate, although that location is not dimensioned. What would happen if the horn were at a lower location? Reason I ask is that it seems like this would make for an easier (straighter) cable run from the rudder bar, maybe even avoid the need for a pulley or hard wood block to guide the control cable back to the horn. Thanks and best regards, John Smoyer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2006
From: "John and Phyllis Smoyer" <jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Rudder bar or rudder pedals
Pieters: from a pilot's point of view, which is preferred? If rudder pedals are used, how big should the pedals be, and where should they be located? Thanks. John Smoyer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2006
Subject: [ Chris Tracy ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Chris Tracy Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Walt Bowe's Ford powered Pietenpol http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ctracy@water.ca.gov.02.18.2006/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2006
From: "Kenneth M. Heide" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need information
Excellent information.....Thank You Also.....If you find a supplier for the cub style landing gear please advise...... Ken Heide Fargo, ND HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote: Ken, The blue bosch coil you can get from JCWhitney, see link: http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=bosch+coil&searchbtn.x=11&searchbtn.y=10 All other ignition parts, sparkplug wires and coil switcher, from Summit racing, see link; http://www.summitracing.com/ Of course Clarks for all corvair engine parts http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main Hope this helps. Hans --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair parts info
Date: Feb 18, 2006
Ken (Heide) asked about descriptions and maybe pictures of some of the parts needed in the Corvair conversion per William Wynne's manual. One resource is William's website, http://www.flycorvair.com . If you look at the various info pages on that site, you'll see not only individual parts but assemblies as well. His "at the hangar" pages show various assemblies, too. But for pieces that William sells specifically for the conversion, his online catalog has photos of the pieces and how they go together. On the product description page, http://www.flycorvair.com/products.html , you can go down the list of parts and click on the link to see pictures and descriptions of each part or assembly that he sells. One other resource for parts, besides Clark's Corvairs, is The Corvair Underground. Website is at http://www.corvairunderground.com and they have been around a long, long time. Be aware that William does not endorse this source any longer, although he listed the company in earlier editions of his manual and showed the owner, Lon Wall, as a good person to deal with. I have found Lon to be fair and honest and his prices to be competitive. He is not a pilot nor an experimental aircraft builder but he knows Corvairs inside and out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 18, 2006
Subject: Re: Need information
Ken, Sorry, can't help you with the Cub style gear. I made mine myself as per drawings. Wagareo can supply cub gears but is not cheap. _http://store.wagaero.com/index.php?cPath=37_86_675_ (http://store.wagaero.com/index.php?cPath=37_86_675) If you buy the Cb gear, no doubt, have to make some changes to fit the Piet Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Landing Gear strength... NO!
The landing gear (in probably all the aiplanes) is kind of a "fuse" to brake when the landing is too hard... is better to break or bend part of the lannding gear or/and the propeller, etc. than to break the pilots and passengers back... Remember G's have to be taken by as much parts as possible in the airplane before the pilots body... I will rather spend my money rebuilding the plane or better (once the plane is flying) this time and money practicing touch and goes, than in hospital bills treating my back... :-) thats why the new cars are completly diferent built from the post war DeSoto... Think light flys better. Saludos Gary Gower. Tim Willis wrote: I am intending to use Cub-type split LG, except for crossed tube and die springs, instead of bungees. I have talked with a few people who have had hard or bad landings in Piets. In all cases something snapped in their LG. In at least one case the mains held, but a part of the spring X-member snapped, causing the right LG to splay out. As you know collapsing LG can break the prop, a wing or two, or even crack a longeron. I think we all have at least one hard landing in our future, whether from a forced or unscheduled landing, strong or highly variable winds, poor visibility, or skillset problems. I am looking for a little insurance here. Does anyone have recommendations for beefing up the LG? What has anyone done in this regard? What would you do differently with this in mind? Thanks. < BR> --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 2006
Subject: Washout & Rigging
In a message dated 2/18/2006 9:05:06 AM Central Standard Time, BARNSTMR(at)aol.com writes: Tim Willis and I have been discussing a few things off list and lately about washout. For all of you guys with flying Piets, 1) how much washout do you have? 2) have you ever tried changing it any to see if handling is improved? I recently found an interesting article about the subject. (link below) It is a a NACA report done by engineers at Texas A&M in 1953 using washout tests on a Taylorcraft. (I have been trying to investigate to see if it was my Taylorcraft. It was owned by A&M at that time). Anyway - The tests looked=20at the effects of washout and slots on lateral control near stall. The washout was varied from zero to 8 degrees. They used tufts all across the top surface of the wing to detect disturbed airflow. The idea is to have the inboard and center section of the wing stall first with the singtips still flying, so that the ailerons remain effective throughout the stall. I believe the NACA report conclusion was that 4 degrees washout was optimal for the taylorcraft and thus recommended for light planes. http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1953/naca-tn-2948/index.cgi?thumbnail11 It might be interesting to consider tests of such on the Piet wing to determine its optimum. Any thoughts? Terry B. Hey Terry, This is an area of aerodynamics that has always interested me. I tried printing the pages of that naca report, because it's easier for me to relax=20in the lazy boy chair to read, but my printer cut off the right side of the page. Here is my understanding on the subject, and what I did: A Hershey bar wing inherently stalls first at the inboard portion of the wing, and washout increases drag. Washout is much more common in Tapered Wings, because they inherently stall the tips first. Therefore, why even rig any washout in the wing ? Because any slight discrepancies in construction, slight errors in rigging, and in the event you don't keep the ball in the middle, I suppose you could stall one wing before the other, albeit a rare occasion. =20I have Never felt one tip stall before the other...it always breaks, or actually just Mushes, straight ahead, however, I haven't tried it with the ball way off center - at altitude of course. The Pietenpol wing has a fairly sharp leading edge, which causes a sharper stall break, than say the ol' T-craft. Have you ever noticed how big the leading edge radius is on an aerobatic plane ? Those wings have a higher critical angle of attack (the angle at which the wing begins to stall), but=20pay for it with an increase in drag. They have excess power to overcome the drag penalty. Nothing is free !! The Pietenpol wing is All about Lift. It creates a Lot of lift at airspeeds that the T-craft wing isn't even considering flying yet. When I was flying in the Test Phase of my plane, I re-rigged my wing several times, because I had a slightly Left Wing Heavy condition. I use the plans built 'Lollipop' fittings at the upper lift strut fittings, so when I re-rigged it was more of an adjustment in Symmetry, as opposed to changing the length of the lift struts. I came to find that the front strap across the bottom of the fuselage was the primary cause of the left wing heavy condition. I nitially I didn't have any bolts through that strap, into the ash cross member. Early on, that strap began to have a gap between it, and the bottom of the fuselage. I thought it was because of the dimension change in the wood with the season, and couldn't imagine that slight dimension change could cause some washout, and a wing heavy condition. Came to find the cause was hard landings. I installed a #10 bolt down through the center of the ash cross piece and strap... Presto !! Most all of the left wing heavy condition disappeared. =20Then the darn thing began to show a gap again, between the center, and the left side. I now have three bolts down through the ash cross piece / cross strap, spaced evenly. Hard landings in a Pietenpol are because as you roundout for landing and increase the angle of attack, the drag increases dramatically and rapidly decreases the airspeed...as opposed to a sharp stall break. The sharp stall break just isn't there in the Pietenpol wing. To conclude, I have about 1/16" to 1/8" washout in my wingtips, which probably is about 1=BA or so. The wing is rigged straight (no dihedral), and just slightly err towards washout. Now, instead of testing the 'Runway Hardness', I try to land as softly as a butterfly with sore feet !! Chuck G. NX770CG p.s. them ol' boys from Texas A&M probably got hold of some Federal money to go play around in the sky with the Taylorcraft, learned a Lot, shared their findings with us, and I'm sure they had a Lot of Fun !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder bar or rudder pedals
Date: Feb 19, 2006
On the rudder horn, the GN-1 mounts the horn in a totally different location. Structurally it shouldn't be a problem although you may want to look at the location of the hinge and keep one hinge close to the horn. On the question of the rudder bar, I currently have a rudder bar, which I really don't care for that much. On my new project I'm putting in J-3 pedals. I dont have any specific complaints about the bar but with the pedals, I will be able to adjust them better for distance. It's a matter of choice. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: John and Phyllis Smoyer To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder bar or rudder pedals Pieters: from a pilot's point of view, which is preferred? If rudder pedals are used, how big should the pedals be, and where should they be located? Thanks. John Smoyer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 2006
Subject: Re: Rudder horn location
In a message dated 2/18/2006 12:11:26 PM Central Standard Time, jpsmoyer(at)verizon.net writes: Have any of you ever experimented with the vertical position of the rudder horn? I've located it about where the plans indicate, although that location is not dimensioned. What would happen if the horn were at a lower location? Reason I ask is that it seems like this would make for an easier (straighter) cable run from the rudder bar, maybe even avoid the need for a pulley or hard wood block to guide the control cable back to the horn. Thanks and best regards, John Smoyer John, If you locate the rudder horn down low, you will increase the torsional load on the upper portion of the rudder, which could lead to Flutter. No worries about the cable run with hardwood fairleads. Definitely not pulleys. AC43.13 says you can deflect a cable up to 7=BA without a pulley. It's much more than that, where the control stick to bellcrank pass under the seat, and because=20of the design load of the cables, there's not even a need for pulleys in that location, either. Just don't use stainless cables where a change in direction is needed. As far as rudder pedals go, they add a Lot of additional pieces that Must be there, or you will over stress the rudder horn. Just remember - 'If it isn't there, it can't break', and the Pietenpol motto : Keep it Simple !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "M&M Stanley" <tomiya(at)di.mbn.or.jp>
Subject: Piet Caps in Japan
Date: Feb 20, 2006
Hi Pieters, Just a note to say that if you are humming and haring about whether or not to buy a Piet cap from Steve Eldredge or not, I say go ahead and 'just do it' ! Mine arrived here in Japan today. Great caps for a great plane ! Attached is a shot of the caps on my R/C Piet with Japanese shoji doors in the background. Yep, just do it! $20 bucks is all you need ! Mark S Japan Rainy days, hinging the fin/rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: FlyCorvair website update
Date: Feb 20, 2006
William Wynne has posted an update on his website, at http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . Included are photos of one of the 5th bearing prototype crankshafts and information on registering a second-hand conversion manual. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Washout & Rigging
I have about 2.5 degrees of dihedral, 3/8" washout at a point 3 ribs in from the wingtip, and ailerons in neutral are rigged 1/4" down on both sides. Reason for 3/8" washout is that is what 150 years of aviation experience (my two 75 year old IA buddies who work on nothing but old airplanes) told me that most Cubs, Champs, and such have in them, and the 1/4" droop because that is the way they used to rig old airplanes (including the DC-3's) because air pressures in flight on will make the ailerons sit pretty then, exactly neutral. If they are rigged neutral I'm told they'll ride up a bit causing drag. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Nadeau <nadeau(at)caldsl.com>
Subject: I just want to fit in...
Date: Feb 20, 2006
Hi Guys, Don't mind me. I'm just a lurker who's going to get started on my piet this year. I have the plans. I have the motor (corvair). I have the carb I got on ebay. I even went up to Van Arsdale-Harris in San Francisco to buy some spruce enough for the tail and ribs. BTW. Thats a heck of a place for raw lumber. One warehouse for spruce and two for fur! Nice 20' 3"x12"s if you really want the big spars. I picked through the small stuff and filled up my civic. But, before I get started there's one thing I'd like to know. How does one actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I mean, I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've heard of people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually seen anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds up or something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a Matrix sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up. Anyhow, for something that ranks just under taking out the garbage on my wife's priority list it'll, I hope to be prop flipping in about a decade or so. On technical terms I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of 250. (with clothes) Too much? Thanks, Mike Nadeau EAA # 0448121 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Building Belize" <buildingbelize(at)centralpets.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Subject: Piet for sale
We are retiring, the wife and I to the house we have spent three years building in the foothills of the Belize Alps. Trying to get there for July this year and putting the house in Miami up for sale and the 2.5 acre finca out in Hendry County for sale also. I've got three years part time in building my Piet. The fuselage is done, the tail feathers, the wheels and axles, the two wings. Got a corvair engine, not yet rebuilt, but it is the 90 hp model and looks to be in good shape. I can't figure a way to ship this to Belize by ship. It is just too bulky and the truck freight internal down there would break it up on those country roads. The steering gear and covering have to be done yet, with overhauling this engine I have. Can you tell me where to advertise this for sale? We want to put the house here in Miami up for sale in April for closing by June if possible. Best offer can take the plane. I haven't worked on it for a year. Been too busy. --------------------------------------------- This e-mail was sent using a CentralPets.com WebMail account Get yours at: http://mail.centralpets.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Piet for sale
Uh-Oh. Do not archive > > > We are retiring, the wife and I to the house we have spent three >years building in the foothills of the Belize Alps. Trying to get >there for July this year and putting the house in Miami up for sale >and the 2.5 acre finca out in Hendry County for sale also. > > I've got three years part time in building my Piet. The fuselage >is done, the tail feathers, the wheels and axles, the two wings. >Got a corvair engine, not yet rebuilt, but it is the 90 hp model and >looks to be in good shape. > I can't figure a way to ship this to Belize by ship. It is just >too bulky and the truck freight internal down there would break it >up on those country roads. The steering gear and covering have to >be done yet, with overhauling this engine I have. Can you tell me >where to advertise this for sale? We want to put the house here in >Miami up for sale in April for closing by June if possible. Best >offer can take the plane. I haven't worked on it for a year. Been >too busy. > >--------------------------------------------- >This e-mail was sent using a CentralPets.com WebMail account >Get yours at: http://mail.centralpets.com > > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: WARNING about the Piet for sale from Ray going to Belize
Group--- Please read prior posts in the archive if you are even considering asking this guy about his Piet project. It is basically a piece of crap built to non-aircraft grade standards and materials and should be burned in a big campfire at the bast of the Alps in Belize....or wherever it sits. Mike C. Please Archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
Cc: Piet List , Michael Nadeau > >Hi Guys, > >Don't mind me. I'm just a lurker who's going to get started on my >piet this year. I have the plans. I have the motor (corvair). I >have the carb I got on ebay. I even went up to Van Arsdale-Harris >in San Francisco to buy some spruce enough for the tail and ribs. >BTW. >Thats a heck of a place for raw lumber. One warehouse for spruce >and two for fur! Nice 20' 3"x12"s if you really want the big spars. >I picked through the small stuff and filled up my civic. But, >before I get started there's one thing I'd like to know. How does >one actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I >mean, I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've >heard of people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually >seen anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds >up or something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a >Matrix sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up. > >Anyhow, for something that ranks just under taking out the garbage >on my wife's priority list it'll, I hope to be prop flipping in >about a decade or so. > >On technical terms I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of >250. (with clothes) Too much? > >Thanks, >Mike Nadeau >EAA # 0448121 Mike, Having gotten front-cockpit rides in several Piets over the past few years, I'd say that anyone who is bigger than my 150lb./5'6" frame is going to have to do some wiggling (and, yes, that is an understatement). If you have chronic aches & pains (I'm now developing arthritis, so I can relate), you might have some real trouble with amount of bending, stretching, twisting, high-wire balancing, etc. necessary to get into the front pit. It's not an easy job. Being a professional contortionist would help. You might want to consider adding the door option, plans for which are available from Keri-Ann Price (she has a web site, I think it's in the archives). At least one person on this list has added the door, so perhaps they can give you some insight into how it turned out. I would have put one on mine, but I bought a partailly done project & Keri-Ann told me that the door could be added to a finished fuse, but did not recommend it. Can't speak to the weight issue, as I stated before, I'm closer to the midget class that this plane seems to have been designed for. Given that you are hoping to fly at 250#, I think the Corvair is your best engine choice, make sure you do the William Wynne conversion to get the best performance out of the engine. Regards, KIp Gardner -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I just want to fit in...
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Welcome, Mike! Piet's aren't easy to enter for today's larger (supersized) folks, if built strictly to the plans. On mine, I made the centersection with a curved cutout over the rear cockpit to make ingress/egress easier, and to give better visibility. I also raised the wing by 2-1/2" to make entry and exit from both cockpits easier. And I used the diagonal cabane struts going forward to the motor mount attach points instead of the X-brace wires ont he right side of the front cockpit. I also added steps for each cockpit. Entry into the front seat is accomplished by stepping on the front step with the left foot while holding onto the left cabane struts, then inserting the head through the cockpit and out the right side, between the right cabane struts. The righ leg is swung into the cockpit, followed by the left leg, and then you back down into the seat. Getting out is pretty much the reverse of the process. My fiancee is 5'10" and 160 lbs and she can do it easily. I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and can do it, but it's a struggle. Rear cockpit is easy. Good luck with your project! Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Nadeau Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I just want to fit in... Hi Guys, Don't mind me. I'm just a lurker who's going to get started on my piet this year. I have the plans. I have the motor (corvair). I have the carb I got on ebay. I even went up to Van Arsdale-Harris in San Francisco to buy some spruce enough for the tail and ribs. BTW. Thats a heck of a place for raw lumber. One warehouse for spruce and two for fur! Nice 20' 3"x12"s if you really want the big spars. I picked through the small stuff and filled up my civic. But, before I get started there's one thing I'd like to know. How does one actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I mean, I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've heard of people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually seen anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds up or something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a Matrix sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up. Anyhow, for something that ranks just under taking out the garbage on my wife's priority list it'll, I hope to be prop flipping in about a decade or so. On technical terms I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of 250. (with clothes) Too much? Thanks, Mike Nadeau EAA # 0448121 or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
The only thing is that with my plane there are these cables in the way on the right side that cross each other and there is no way to get your head through.I would have to take those cables off and then find some way to reinforce the structure to make up for the loss of those cables.I think I'll just leave my battery in the front seat for starting . "Phillips, Jack" wrote: > > > Welcome, Mike! > > Piet's aren't easy to enter for today's larger (supersized) folks, if > built strictly to the plans. On mine, I made the centersection with a > curved cutout over the rear cockpit to make ingress/egress easier, and > to give better visibility. I also raised the wing by 2-1/2" to make > entry and exit from both cockpits easier. And I used the diagonal > cabane struts going forward to the motor mount attach points instead of > the X-brace wires ont he right side of the front cockpit. I also added > steps for each cockpit. > > Entry into the front seat is accomplished by stepping on the front step > with the left foot while holding onto the left cabane struts, then > inserting the head through the cockpit and out the right side, between > the right cabane struts. The righ leg is swung into the cockpit, > followed by the left leg, and then you back down into the seat. Getting > out is pretty much the reverse of the process. > > My fiancee is 5'10" and 160 lbs and she can do it easily. I'm 6'2" and > 200 lbs and can do it, but it's a struggle. Rear cockpit is easy. > > Good luck with your project! > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael > Nadeau > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:50 PM > To: Piet List > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I just want to fit in... > > > Hi Guys, > > Don't mind me. I'm just a lurker who's going to get started on my > piet this year. I have the plans. I have the motor (corvair). I > have the carb I got on ebay. I even went up to Van Arsdale-Harris in > San Francisco to buy some spruce enough for the tail and ribs. BTW. > Thats a heck of a place for raw lumber. One warehouse for spruce and > two for fur! Nice 20' 3"x12"s if you really want the big spars. I > picked through the small stuff and filled up my civic. But, before I > get started there's one thing I'd like to know. How does one > actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I mean, > I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've heard of > people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually seen > anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds up or > something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a Matrix > sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up. > > Anyhow, for something that ranks just under taking out the garbage on > my wife's priority list it'll, I hope to be prop flipping in about a > decade or so. > > On technical terms I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of > 250. (with clothes) Too much? > > Thanks, > Mike Nadeau > EAA # 0448121 > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I just want to fit in...
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
That's why you need the diagonal cabane struts going down to the upper engine mount attach points, so you can eliminate that bracing wire. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey rule Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I just want to fit in... The only thing is that with my plane there are these cables in the way on the right side that cross each other and there is no way to get your head through.I would have to take those cables off and then find some way to reinforce the structure to make up for the loss of those cables.I think I'll just leave my battery in the front seat for starting . "Phillips, Jack" wrote: > > > Welcome, Mike! > > Piet's aren't easy to enter for today's larger (supersized) folks, if > built strictly to the plans. On mine, I made the centersection with a > curved cutout over the rear cockpit to make ingress/egress easier, and > to give better visibility. I also raised the wing by 2-1/2" to make > entry and exit from both cockpits easier. And I used the diagonal > cabane struts going forward to the motor mount attach points instead of > the X-brace wires ont he right side of the front cockpit. I also added > steps for each cockpit. > > Entry into the front seat is accomplished by stepping on the front step > with the left foot while holding onto the left cabane struts, then > inserting the head through the cockpit and out the right side, between > the right cabane struts. The righ leg is swung into the cockpit, > followed by the left leg, and then you back down into the seat. Getting > out is pretty much the reverse of the process. > > My fiancee is 5'10" and 160 lbs and she can do it easily. I'm 6'2" and > 200 lbs and can do it, but it's a struggle. Rear cockpit is easy. > > Good luck with your project! > > Jack Phillips > Raleigh, NC > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael > Nadeau > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:50 PM > To: Piet List > Subject: Pietenpol-List: I just want to fit in... > > > Hi Guys, > > Don't mind me. I'm just a lurker who's going to get started on my > piet this year. I have the plans. I have the motor (corvair). I > have the carb I got on ebay. I even went up to Van Arsdale-Harris in > San Francisco to buy some spruce enough for the tail and ribs. BTW. > Thats a heck of a place for raw lumber. One warehouse for spruce and > two for fur! Nice 20' 3"x12"s if you really want the big spars. I > picked through the small stuff and filled up my civic. But, before I > get started there's one thing I'd like to know. How does one > actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I mean, > I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've heard of > people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually seen > anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds up or > something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a Matrix > sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up. > > Anyhow, for something that ranks just under taking out the garbage on > my wife's priority list it'll, I hope to be prop flipping in about a > decade or so. > > On technical terms I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of > 250. (with clothes) Too much? > > Thanks, > Mike Nadeau > EAA # 0448121 > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete > > Espanol - Deutsch - Nederlands - Francais - Italiano - Norsk - Svenska > > > > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: washout & rigging
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Mike Cuy wrote- >If they are rigged neutral I'm told they'll ride up a bit causing drag. And we can't have any of that nasty drag on a Pietenpol, can we? ;o) Mike Nadeau wrote- >I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of 250. (with clothes) Now there's a novel thought... "skinny-flying". I get a heck of a mental picture here. Like, how do you get the plane out of the hangar, chock the wheels, swing the prop, pull the chocks, and climb in... without any "clothing malfunctions"? And to add proper Pietenpol content to this post, I can report that my missing ignition lead has finally been located. It was supposed to ship out of Lake Havasu City a month ago (Aircraft Spruce) and yesterday the customer service rep was kind enough to give me the tracking number to prove that it had, indeed, been delivered on January 18. I then pointed out to her that the tracking data showed that it was left on a porch in Dayton, Ohio... and I'm sitting here in San Antonio, Texas. She's scrambling to find out who has it and if they will kindly send it to me so I can START MY A65 ENGINE!!!! Makes a guy want to cry in his beer, waiting and waiting and waiting to hear the roar of the mighty Continental and finding out that some poor Yankee is sitting in their living room looking at a funny wire and not knowing what the @#$%& it's for!!! I think I'll try that skinny-flying stuff one day, but just not when the naugahyde seat is too hot ;o) Hope I don't get a ramp-check from a friendly Fed, either (unless she's female). Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Jack & the Gang, Do any of you fellows have a sketch of this cabane/wire setup that you could email me? I've just started an Aircamper and I can't visualize this reccommendation. Alan Lyscars Portland, Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:29 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I just want to fit in... > > That's why you need the diagonal cabane struts going down to the upper > engine mount attach points, so you can eliminate that bracing wire. > > Jack Phillips > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: hinge hardware
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Hi all, Last night I was sitting back thumbing through the AS&S dream book looking for some mounting hardware for my Kapler hinges and ran into a bit of a problem. When I measured the mounting holes in the hinges, I found they were .160" in diameter - so I planned on using some 6-32 (.138" Dia.) hardware to mount them. This would give a generous clearance to allow fine adjustment when mating the elevator halves to the horiz. stabilizer. So I set up and pre drilled my main beam, glued the horiz stab together, and was ready to test mount a few hinges. Then to my horror, I can not find any AN 100 Deg, 6-32 machine screws long enough to reach through the beam and secure the hinge. (Drat...) So I thought I would just upsize to 8-32 hardware, but wouldn't you know it - 8-32 is .164" dia. and won't fit through the hinges without modifying them. Since I really would rather not have to drill all the hinges and mounting holes in my beam, I am wondering what those of you who used Vi's hinges have used to mount them? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you! Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: photos showing center section/cabane strut setups
Mike-- good to hear you are on your way to building the Pietenpol Air Camper. As Jack Phillips mentioned, make your center section higher than plans. Most guys make the cabane struts (the four vertical streamlined struts over the cockpit areas) two and sometimes three inches longer than the plans call for. Not only does this make it easier to get in and out of the front seat but it dramatically increases the pilot's visibility forward and above. Don't install the X cable bracing on the right side of the front cockpit, but rather install the diagonal struts from your two upper motor mount fittings to a bracket/fitting that you'll have to make on the front two cabane struts near the top.l (as seen in the attached photos that show the two different center section bracing options) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: hinge hardware
Hello Dan I am using 8-32 screws on my Kapler hinges, just reamed the holes out to around .170. Rick H On 2/21/06, Dan Loegering wrote: > > danl(at)odayequipment.com> > > Hi all, > > Last night I was sitting back thumbing through the AS&S dream book looking > for some mounting hardware for my Kapler hinges and ran into a bit of a > problem. > > When I measured the mounting holes in the hinges, I found they were .160" > in diameter - so I planned on using some 6-32 (.138" Dia.) hardware to mount > them. This would give a generous clearance to allow fine adjustment when > mating the elevator halves to the horiz. stabilizer. So I set up and pre > drilled my main beam, glued the horiz stab together, and was ready to test > mount a few hinges. Then to my horror, I can not find any AN 100 Deg, 6-32 > machine screws long enough to reach through the beam and secure the > hinge. (Drat...) > > So I thought I would just upsize to 8-32 hardware, but wouldn't you know > it - 8-32 is .164" dia. and won't fit through the hinges without modifying > them. > > Since I really would rather not have to drill all the hinges and mounting > holes in my beam, I am wondering what those of you who used Vi's hinges have > used to mount them? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thank you! > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
One other thing you may want to consider is increasing the fuselage width by one to four inches, many people on this list have done this (I increases mine by two). I also am building a wing cutout and 2 1/2" longer cabanes. Rick H. On 2/20/06, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > Don't mind me. I'm just a lurker who's going to get started on my > piet this year. I have the plans. I have the motor (corvair). I > have the carb I got on ebay. I even went up to Van Arsdale-Harris in > San Francisco to buy some spruce enough for the tail and ribs. BTW. > Thats a heck of a place for raw lumber. One warehouse for spruce and > two for fur! Nice 20' 3"x12"s if you really want the big spars. I > picked through the small stuff and filled up my civic. But, before I > get started there's one thing I'd like to know. How does one > actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I mean, > I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've heard of > people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually seen > anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds up or > something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a Matrix > sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up. > > Anyhow, for something that ranks just under taking out the garbage on > my wife's priority list it'll, I hope to be prop flipping in about a > decade or so. > > On technical terms I want to trim the bird for a max pilot weight of > 250. (with clothes) Too much? > > Thanks, > Mike Nadeau > EAA # 0448121 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: photos showing center section/cabane strut setups
I have both;is this over done?See pics in attachment. Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Mike-- good to hear you are on your way to building the Pietenpol Air Camper. > > As Jack Phillips mentioned, make your center section higher than > plans. Most guys make the cabane struts > (the four vertical streamlined struts over the cockpit areas) two and > sometimes three inches longer than the plans call for. > > Not only does this make it easier to get in and out of the front seat but > it dramatically increases the pilot's visibility forward > and above. > > Don't install the X cable bracing on the right side of the front cockpit, > but rather install the diagonal struts from your > two upper motor mount fittings to a bracket/fitting that you'll have to > make on the front two cabane struts near the top.l > (as seen in the attached photos that show the two different center section > bracing options) > > Mike C. > > Name: Diagonal Braces.jpg > Diagonal Braces.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) > Encoding: base64 > > Name: X Cable Braces.jpg > X Cable Braces.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) > Encoding: base64 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org>
Subject: Re: hinge hardware
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Same here - I just picked up some more 8-32 SS machine screws (1-1/2") from Home Depot for that very purpose. The only thing that I would like that I couldn't find is a phillips head screw instead of slotted. Kirk On Feb 21, 2006, at 9:04 AM, Rick Holland wrote: > Hello Dan > > I am using 8-32 screws on my Kapler hinges, just reamed the holes > out to around .170. > > Rick H > > On 2/21/06, Dan Loegering < danl(at)odayequipment.com> wrote: > danl(at)odayequipment.com> > > Hi all, > > Last night I was sitting back thumbing through the AS&S dream book > looking for some mounting hardware for my Kapler hinges and ran > into a bit of a problem. > > When I measured the mounting holes in the hinges, I found they > were .160" in diameter - so I planned on using some 6-32 (.138" > Dia.) hardware to mount them. This would give a generous clearance > to allow fine adjustment when mating the elevator halves to the > horiz. stabilizer. So I set up and pre drilled my main beam, glued > the horiz stab together, and was ready to test mount a few hinges. > Then to my horror, I can not find any AN 100 Deg, 6-32 machine > screws long enough to reach through the beam and secure the hinge. > (Drat...) > > So I thought I would just upsize to 8-32 hardware, but wouldn't you > know it - 8-32 is .164" dia. and won't fit through the hinges > without modifying them. > > Since I really would rather not have to drill all the hinges and > mounting holes in my beam, I am wondering what those of you who > used Vi's hinges have used to mount them? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thank you! > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > <========================================= ="http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http:// > www.matronics================================================ > p; -Matt Dralle, Li> > =================================================== > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" Kirk Huizenga Community Expert kirk.huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org 651.482.8203 my views are not necessarily the view of my employer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: hinge hardware
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Why not go to Stainless 6x32 with locking nuts? They are available at the hardware store. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hinge hardware > > > Hi all, > > Last night I was sitting back thumbing through the AS&S dream book looking > for some mounting hardware for my Kapler hinges and ran into a bit of a > problem. > > When I measured the mounting holes in the hinges, I found they were .160" > in diameter - so I planned on using some 6-32 (.138" Dia.) hardware to > mount them. This would give a generous clearance to allow fine adjustment > when mating the elevator halves to the horiz. stabilizer. So I set up and > pre drilled my main beam, glued the horiz stab together, and was ready to > test mount a few hinges. Then to my horror, I can not find any AN 100 > Deg, 6-32 machine screws long enough to reach through the beam and secure > the hinge. (Drat...) > > So I thought I would just upsize to 8-32 hardware, but wouldn't you know > it - 8-32 is .164" dia. and won't fit through the hinges without modifying > them. > > Since I really would rather not have to drill all the hinges and mounting > holes in my beam, I am wondering what those of you who used Vi's hinges > have used to mount them? > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thank you! > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Washout & Rigging
Hello Mike, This mail of yours is a REAL KEEPER! Everything makes lots of sense, so has to be perfectly correct. Saludos Gary Gower. Michael D Cuy wrote: I have about 2.5 degrees of dihedral, 3/8" washout at a point 3 ribs in from the wingtip, and ailerons in neutral are rigged 1/4" down on both sides. Reason for 3/8" washout is that is what 150 years of aviation experience (my two 75 year old IA buddies who work on nothing but old airplanes) told me that most Cubs, Champs, and such have in them, and the 1/4" droop because that is the way they used to rig old airplanes (including the DC-3's) because air pressures in flight on will make the ailerons sit pretty then, exactly neutral. If they are rigged neutral I'm told they'll ride up a bit causing drag. Mike C. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Subject: Re: Piet for sale
Need a bit more information on your Piet for Sale, please. Any pics? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: WARNING about the Piet for sale from Ray going to
Belize I knew he will not finish it... LESS fly it! Even if he was "Completly"convinced of his materials suaping... Is a diferent thing to argue to the list that "this material looks the same as the good one", "why to pay more, just because it says Aircraft Quality" and other completly diferent thing is to sit in the flying plane and look down at 3,000 ft in turbulence :-) Saludos Gary Gower. Michael D Cuy wrote: Group--- Please read prior posts in the archive if you are even considering asking this guy about his Piet project. It is basically a piece of crap built to non-aircraft grade standards and materials and should be burned in a big campfire at the bast of the Alps in Belize....or wherever it sits. Mike C. Please Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Nadeau <nadeau(at)caldsl.com>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
Date: Feb 21, 2006
Thanks guys for all the info. I'm satisfied someone will squeeze in my front cockpit. Keri Ann's website seems to be down. I'll keep on lurking and pipe in time to time with questions. Thanks again, Mike BTW I don't weigh 250 lbs but I probably will by the time I fly :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
Thanks guys for all the info. I'm satisfied someone will squeeze in my front cockpit. Keri Ann's website seems to be down. I'll keep on lurking and pipe in time to time with questions. Thanks again, Mike BTW I don't weigh 250 lbs but I probably will by the time I fly :-) Just forget about pizza and beer snacks while building :-) :-) The fuselage door is a good idea, hope you find the plans soon. Saludos Gary Gower --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2006
From: Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: Washout & Rigging
Hi guys: The Pietenpol manual, page 75, says that "When Mr. Pietenpol assembled and covered wings he would place either a 1/4" or 1/2" spacer under the last outboard rib, where it intersects the rear spar." to build in his washout. I just happened to be working on this part of my Piet, today, so I did a measurement using Mike C.'s number of 3/8" at the third rib in and came up with 9/16" at the last rib. So I will add 1/8" to the Pietenpol manual's 1/2" number and live with the extra drag. What is really a valuable tidbit for me is Mike C.'s information about rigging the ailerons 1/4" low in their neutral position. Good, common-sense, info is always easy for me to remember. Mike Luther ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 3:39 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Washout & Rigging > Hello Mike, > > This mail of yours is a REAL KEEPER! Everything makes lots of > sense, so has to be perfectly correct. > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > > Michael D Cuy wrote: > > I have about 2.5 degrees of dihedral, 3/8" washout at a point 3 > ribs in > from the wingtip, and ailerons in neutral are rigged 1/4" down on both > sides. > > Reason for 3/8" washout is that is what 150 years of aviation > experience > (my two 75 year old IA buddies who work on nothing but old airplanes) > told me that most Cubs, Champs, and such have in them, > > and the 1/4" droop because that is the way they used to rig old > airplanes > (including the DC-3's) because air pressures in flight on will make > the ailerons sit pretty then, exactly neutral. If they are rigged > neutral > I'm told they'll ride up a bit causing drag. > > Mike C. > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 2006
Subject: Re: Washout & Rigging
In a message dated 2/20/2006 3:14:06 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: the 1/4" droop because that is the way they used to rig old airplanes (including the DC-3's) because air pressures in flight on will make the ailerons sit pretty then, exactly neutral. If they are rigged neutral I'm told they'll ride up a bit causing drag. Mike et all, I have my ailerons rigged even with the wing's trailing edge, and they stay there in flight. The flight control rigging of the Pietenpol should Not have any tension to speak of...just remove all slack. When I stand out by the wing, and move one aileron 1/16", the other aileron moves exactly that much - in other words, no play. It seems to me that 1/4" is quite a lot, and if they stay 1/4" low in flight, this would negate a lot of the washout you have. Here is an old trick : If you already have your wing rigged, and you find you have a tip stall condition, rig the ailerons trailing edge a little bit higher than the trailing edge of the wing, and it causes some washout. However, if the ball is in the middle, the Pietenpol wing just doesn't have any tip stall conditions, and washout just reduces the total lift. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS" <lnawms(at)msn.com>
Subject: "skinny flying"
Date: Feb 22, 2006
Next time you talk to Randy Bruce ask him why he has "Captain Buck Naked" painted on the side of his Piet!! Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Washout & Rigging
Date: Feb 22, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
While I have my ailerons rigged pretty much as Mike does (about 1/8" below the trailing edge of the wing on the ground), I am considering changing them to be rigged about =BC" ABOVE the trailing edge of the wing, for the following reason: A Pietenpol exhibits substantial adverse yaw (DUH!). If the ailerons are rigged above the trailing edge, adverse yaw is decreased because the aileron going down (which produces the yaw) doesn't enter the slipstream below the wing until it has travelled =BC". So for the first =BC" of aileron travel, the downgoing aileron has just gotten to the neutral position, but the up-going aileron is already =BD" above neutral. At least so says Vaughn Askue in his book "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aicraft". In actuality, I like the way mine flies, and don't find the adverse yaw all that objectionable, so I doubt if I'll go to the trouble to re-rig it. "Real Pilots Know how to Use their Rudder" Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Washout & Rigging In a message dated 2/20/2006 3:14:06 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: the 1/4" droop because that is the way they used to rig old airplanes (including the DC-3's) because air pressures in flight on will make the ailerons sit pretty then, exactly neutral. If they are rigged neutral I'm told they'll ride up a bit causing drag. Mike et all, I have my ailerons rigged even with the wing's trailing edge, and they stay there in flight. The flight control rigging of the Pietenpol should Not have any tension to speak of...just remove all slack. When I stand out by the wing, and move one aileron 1/16", the other aileron moves exactly that much - in other words, no play. It seems to me that 1/4" is quite a lot, and if they stay 1/4" low in flight, this would negate a lot of the washout you have. Here is an old trick : If you already have your wing rigged, and you find you have a tip stall condition, rig the ailerons trailing edge a little bit higher than the trailing edge of the wing, and it causes some washout. However, if the ball is in the middle, the Pietenpol wing just doesn't have any tip stall conditions, and washout just reduces the total lift. Chuck G. NX770CG or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Building Belize" <buildingbelize(at)centralpets.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2006
Subject: Re: WARNING about the Piet for sale from Ray going
to Belize I wasn't going to respond to asinine remarks by an ignoramus who through their amateur efforts consider themselves experts on all things Pietenpol. But my EAA chapter has three A & P's, one of which is our tech counsellor and a working FAA Inspector. They have vetted my construction on the Pietenpol all the way through. The materials are 1932 to 1949 aircraft grade materials specifications as per original plans of Bernie and fit all FAA specs of that period. Poly fiber is probably the only modern difference? I suppose there is one stupid crabby opinionated guy in every crowd? Insulting people you have never met and an airplane you have never seen speaks for itself. An opinion is one thing, insults and libel are another. The Mini Max, which was built in Belize has 321 hours on it and built out of mahogany and lands fine in sugar cane field stubble, island coral sands between the coconut trees and mountain tracks. Couple of times it has even landed on asphalt with no discernible difference. The only problem being one of capacity. I really need a CH 801 four place. But we are working on that down in Belize also. At least in hanger talk so far, and trying to buy a shed next to our country airstrip for the farm to build it in. The Cessna 150 does things you wouldn't believe down there in our overregulated environment up here in the states. Carrying tourists up the gorges to see the 1600 FALLS. Now if I can just figure a way to land at 2,200 ft at the Gold Fields waaaaay back in the jungles? Trouble is the feeder streams at the gold deposits make that valley very wet and soggy. You got any ideas on that, I'd like to hear them? >-----Original Message----- >From: Gary Gower [mailto:ggower_99(at)yahoo.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:55 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WARNING about the Piet for sale from Ray going to Belize > >I knew he will not finish it... LESS fly it! Even if he was "Completly"convinced of his materials suaping... > > Is a diferent thing to argue to the list that "this material looks the same as the good one", "why to pay more, just because it says Aircraft Quality" and other completly diferent thing is to sit in the flying plane and look down at 3,000 ft in turbulence :-) > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > >Michael D Cuy wrote: > >Group--- Please read prior posts in the archive if you are even considering >asking this guy about his Piet project. > >It is basically a piece of crap built to non-aircraft grade standards and >materials and should be burned in a big > >campfire at the bast of the Alps in Belize....or wherever it sits. > > >Mike C. > > >Please Archive > > > >--------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- This e-mail was sent using a CentralPets.com WebMail account Get yours at: http://mail.centralpets.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Washout & Rigging
Guys-- I really am getting a lot of information from guys like Mike L, Chuck, and Jack regarding the rigging of ailerons and the other effects on washout. Very interesting discussion. I found that in rigging my ailerons that by adjusting my 'balance' cable up in the center section I could literally bind up the control system if I went one turn too tight. I played with that turnbuckle for a while before I was happy with the aileron feel yet without it being too sloppy or too tight. I guess I fell into that "this is what we used to do on all the airplanes back then so it probably is a good thing to do on yours" syndrome----but in thinking this thru with you guys I can see why there are reasons to consider it further. I, like Jack, don't mind the way my plane feels with adverse yaw and in fact when I'm fumbling with charts or gps or changing frequencies on my handheld, I often fly with my feet and just like a simple R/C plane or glider, rudder is about all you need if you're trim and power are set okay. Chuck, I don't really have any play in my ailerons and next time I'm out flying I'll check to see if my 1/4" droop levels out in flight still as I recall it doing. I'm not so sure it is a control system play issue as much as it is low pressure atop the wing flippers. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: bundle of wood for sale
Hey Ray---- I knew you couldn't resist responding because you thrive on this kinda thing. I threw you a bone and you bit, like a big old Belize Sailfish. I'm glad you've had good tech counselors along the way and a working FAA Inspector during your building phase and I suppose my only question to you would be that if they are pleased with your materials and workmanship then why aren't they, or someone in your EAA Chapter chomping at the bit to buy your project ? I highly recommend that anyone in the market for a homebuilt project, a flying experimental, or factory aircraft inspect the goods in person, and preferably with a tech counselor or knowledgeable person. To do otherwise is inviting a high probability of risk and regrettable financial loss ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I just want to fit in...
Date: Feb 22, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Mike, The following link shows photographic proof (at the bottom of the web page) that a (apparently normal-sized) human CAN get into the front seat of a Piet. The photo sequence doesn't appear to show the wing folding or being removed. Of course I am assuming that these shots weren't Photoshopped. And the passenger doesn't appear to have stepped out of The Matrix (or at least they removed their cape if they did). http://www.chestnutfarms.com/Pietenpol/myPiet/pietenpol.htm Personally, I have only been in a Piet once (Brodhead 2004), and it had the diagonal cabane strut bracing and not the X-brace wires. That allowed me to pass my upper body between the right hand cabane struts, which made the entry process a bit easier. I can see the X-brace wires making the procedure a bit more challenging. The Piet I was in was not the extended fuselage version, and I found the front seat a bit cramped for my legs. But, then again, I'm 6'-2", so I'm used to not having a lot of leg room. I will be building the extended fuselage, and likely will build a fuse mock-up before proceeding. Bill -----Original Message----- Hi Guys, ...How does one actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front cockpit. I mean, I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and I've heard of people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't actually seen anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it folds up or something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a Matrix sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up... Thanks, Mike Nadeau EAA # 0448121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2006
From: harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Subject: Re: I just want to fit in...
When the snow clears,I'll have to try that one.I notice he does crawl through the cable braising cross pieces but I still can't believe he actually got that last leg in without cutting it off and the other guy outside the plane handing it back to him.I'll just have to wait and try it myself.Sorry to be a doubting Thomas but that's the way I am. Bill Church wrote: > > > Mike, > > The following link shows photographic proof (at the bottom of the web > page) that a (apparently normal-sized) human CAN get into the front seat > of a Piet. The photo sequence doesn't appear to show the wing folding or > being removed. Of course I am assuming that these shots weren't > Photoshopped. And the passenger doesn't appear to have stepped out of > The Matrix (or at least they removed their cape if they did). > http://www.chestnutfarms.com/Pietenpol/myPiet/pietenpol.htm > > Personally, I have only been in a Piet once (Brodhead 2004), and it had > the diagonal cabane strut bracing and not the X-brace wires. That > allowed me to pass my upper body between the right hand cabane struts, > which made the entry process a bit easier. I can see the X-brace wires > making the procedure a bit more challenging. The Piet I was in was not > the extended fuselage version, and I found the front seat a bit cramped > for my legs. But, then again, I'm 6'-2", so I'm used to not having a lot > of leg room. I will be building the extended fuselage, and likely will > build a fuse mock-up before proceeding. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > > > Hi Guys, > > ...How does one actually get into a piet? Specifically, the front > cockpit. I mean, I've seen pictures of people sitting in the front and > I've heard of people saying they've sat in one, but I've haven't > actually seen anyone get in one. I assume the wing comes off. Or it > folds up or something. Maybe they wear black leather and slide in in a > Matrix sort of way. I don't know, which is why I bring it up... > > > Thanks, > Mike Nadeau > EAA # 0448121 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Building Belize" <buildingbelize(at)centralpets.com>
Date: Feb 22, 2006
Subject: Re: bundle of wood for sale
Aaaaaahhh welll! Alls fun I guess? But people who are in the crowd who were telling Burt Rutan he shouldn't be building a space plane with plastic windows, carbon fiber and a shirt sleeve environment and no space suit, do get me down. Nothing would ever get done with those kind of negative kibitzers. I certainly respect some guy who was an accountant, or doctor, or lawyer who has built himself an airplane. That is a whole new field for them and success is hard to argue with. Kudo's to them. My EAA Chapter are for the most part building kit planes. Half already gave up on homebuilts and bought planes factory made. The FAA Inspector is building

January 28, 2006 - February 22, 2006

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ew