Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fb
April 25, 2006 - May 13, 2006
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Jig
>Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:22:20 -0700
>
>
>OK, so by the over whelming response I will be building my own wing rib
>jig. The thought, by buying one already made was not because I couldn't do
>it, I was just trying to save some time. I now see the logic in building
>and keeping my own jig. Next Question? Is there any difference or benefit
>by either soaking or steaming your capstrips, does one work any better than
>the other. Thanks Again for the help and support. Bryan
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=29734#29734
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitch trimming |
Cc: Boatright1(at)aol.com, FWWhitaker(at)worldnet.att.net
Thanks for all the thoughts on this, and please keep them coming.
Our Piet had a huge trim tab, but for the opposite problem. The
former owner mainly flew solo and was a big, tall guy. He had
problems with nose up, not nose down. Obviously we could have left
the tab on and simply bent it the other way, but it was so huge and
ugly (and only on one elevator!) that we pulled it off. Even solo
we're getting nose down, so we still need a trim solution.
>
>I've been wondering the same thing. I don't think I've ever seen a
>Piet with a "bendable" trim tab. Have I just not been looking hard
>enough?....Carl Vought
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:40 AM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pitch trimming
>
>>
>>I am no expert on aeronautical engineering but as a photographer I have seen
>>plenty of aircraft with aluminum tabs added to the elevator that are bent at
>>angles to correct pitch in level flight. I am not sure about the strength of
>>these into a wooden elevator? Any comments on this? Too simple?
>>Rob
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
>>Boatright
>>Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:02 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pitch trimming
>>
>>
>>We've been trying to get the Piet to fly hands-off. Currently it
>>tends to nose down. We thought tried to lower the stabilizer leading
>>edge / raise the trailing edge, but could not move it much at all due
>>to the rudder being hinged on both the vertical fin and the rear post
>>of the fuselage.
>>
>>Next step was to put twist into the stabilizer by cranking on the
>>turnbuckles. This put an easily-seen front-to-rear upturn on the
>>stabilizer. Flight testing showed that this helped - we're having to
>>hold about half the back stick that we had to before. However, the
>>plane still wants to nose down.
>>
>>Next step? We could crank in more stabilizer twist. Do you know if
>>there is a safety limit to how much twist can be put in? I guess
>>another solution would be trim tabs.
>>
>>I searched the archives on "trim" and "stabilizer" and couldn't come
>>up with an answer.
>>
>>Thanks for any thoughts on the subject,
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris cummins <cccstandard(at)yahoo.com> |
Matt, You are correct in your observations. What else would you like to know. I'll
see if I can answer your questions.
Chris Cummins 516BC
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
The recent interest in rib jigs, staples vs nails, etc.has prompted me to post
a picture of a rib jig I made while building an Airbike wing. I didnt use nails
or staples. Instead, I held everything in place with toggle clamps. What I like
about this method is that you can put the gussets on both sides at the same
time...Cuts glue-drying time in half. The price you pay is that the gussets
need to be cut very uniformly, which you can do by stacking the layers of ply
and using a metal template on the top of the stack. Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm looking in to various go-kart brakes for my Piet and just wondering what
most of you use -- the mechanically actuated disc brakes, or the hydraulic
juice brake calipers. I see advantages/disadvantages to both and wanted to see
what all of the experts have to say! I'm building the Jenny-style landing gear
and will use disc brakes -- just wondering if mechanical or juice...
Got all the tail feathers finished over the weekend -- less hinges (will
install those tonight). Came out nice and light...then I'll get the fuselage down
from the ceiling joists and start putting landing gear together...
Hey, less than 90 days to Brodhead!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead to Oshkosh |
Dear Brian,
I can at least speak for OSH. I took my oldest to Airventure in 2003 (he was 13
yrs old). We borrowed my buddy's pop-up camper and camped at Camp Schoeller.
No kidding: there were at least 20,000 other tents/pop-ups/5th wheels/drive-arounds/mobile
palaces at Camp Shoeller that week. At first, we felt alone-not
knowing anyone else out there. Like most campground camping experiences, as
the week progressed, we came to know the campers around us. After a big day
inhaling aircraft in the sun, we'd retreat to, what we came to call, home and
fire the grill for steaks and corn.
So camping at OSH is not a trout-filled dream. But it's a great place to hang
your hat and meet fellow aviation nuts like us.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: brian jardine
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead to Oshkosh
Group,
I am planning a cross-country trip (driving) from Utah to Broadhead, and then
on to Air Adventure at Oshkosh. I am bringing my 3 young boys, 12, 9, and 5.
Earth Day
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Say Fred,
Have you looked at the new mountain bikes with front disc brake set-up They have
an internal spring that return the brake back to the open without any exposed
brake springs. The disc is bolted onto a spindle which could be taken off
and applied to our piets.....Just a thought but looks and seems very promising
and no need for a return spring on the toe pedal....
Any other thoughts.....
Ken
TBYH(at)aol.com wrote:
I'm looking in to various go-kart brakes for my Piet and just wondering what
most of you use -- the mechanically actuated disc brakes, or the hydraulic
juice brake calipers. I see advantages/disadvantages to both and wanted to see
what all of the experts have to say! I'm building the Jenny-style landing gear
and will use disc brakes -- just wondering if mechanical or juice...
Got all the tail feathers finished over the weekend -- less hinges (will install
those tonight). Came out nice and light...then I'll get the fuselage down
from the ceiling joists and start putting landing gear together...
Hey, less than 90 days to Brodhead!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | R Matt Doody <rmattd123(at)yahoo.com> |
Chris,
Thanks for responding.
I am currently working on another project however I have an interest in building
a Piet as a next project. What are the dimensions on the cant for the cabanes
and what tubing sizes did you use for the empennage? What other changes
have you made? Do you plan on creating a website show-casing your Piet and its
unique features?
Best Regards,
Matt
chris cummins wrote:
Matt, You are correct in your observations. What else would you like to know.
I'll see if I can answer your questions.
Chris Cummins 516BC
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitch trimming |
Jeff,
We had the same problem with NX18235 when it first flew. It required about 6
lbs. of aft stick pressure to maintain level flight.
One problem we found was the elevators were rigged slightly uneven. When
this was corrected the required aft stick pressure was reduced to about 2
lbs. The remaining trimming was taken care of by adjusting the stabilizer
turnbuckles.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pitch trimming
>
> We've been trying to get the Piet to fly hands-off. Currently it tends to
> nose down. We thought tried to lower the stabilizer leading edge / raise
> the trailing edge, but could not move it much at all due to the rudder
> being hinged on both the vertical fin and the rear post of the fuselage.
>
> Next step was to put twist into the stabilizer by cranking on the
> turnbuckles. This put an easily-seen front-to-rear upturn on the
> stabilizer. Flight testing showed that this helped - we're having to hold
> about half the back stick that we had to before. However, the plane still
> wants to nose down.
>
> Next step? We could crank in more stabilizer twist. Do you know if there
> is a safety limit to how much twist can be put in? I guess another
> solution would be trim tabs.
>
> I searched the archives on "trim" and "stabilizer" and couldn't come up
> with an answer.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts on the subject,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pitch trimming |
First, a few observations:
The Pietenpol Airfoil has a LOT of negative pitching moment, requiring
more down force on the tail than other types of airfoils, which is another one
of the things that cause this type airframe to be very draggy. Trim drag is
the amount of Down force applied to the tail, to maintain level flight at a
particular power setting. Another thing that aggravates the negative pitching
moment, is the actual weight of the flippers, which adds to the nose down
characteristic.
The pitch axis is dynamic on Pietenpols, similar to any other aircraft,
in that trim drag changes with changes in C of G. If you carried all of your
fuel in the wing (as designed), the C of G changes very little, hence, no need
for adjustable pitch trim.
Choices:
Adjusting the leading edge of the stabilizer down, to attain a nose up
attitude would be a ground adjustable trim method. If you use a cowling fuel tank,
an in flight adjustable trim tab, or some type of spring / bunji applied to
either the bell crank, or the stick, may be used. In my mind, I don't like
anything extra - if it ain't there, it can't break...kiss method.
I had similar characteristics as you (and many others), in that I had to
hold back stick, to maintain level flight when the C of G was at the forward
positions - full cowl tank. The thing I did was to experiment with a Fixed
trim tab on the inboard trailing edge of each flipper. This negates the weight
of the flippers, and has no moving parts. I used balsa wood trailing edge of
R. C. airplanes, available at hobby stores. Each one is about 5" long, and 1
1/2" wide, and blended right into the trailing edge of the flipper. I
experimented with the angle of the trim tab, and after many test flights, found
an
angle that would be hands off, with the C of G in the mid to forward range. To
make dynamic pitch trim changes, I simply adjust the power setting. I have
pictures of my trim tabs here : http://nx770cg.com/Fuselage.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
Hans,
Oscar tells me you have experience with the Corvair rebuild? Can you comment
on the Wynne video about taking the engine apart? If you have seen it.
Rob Stapleton
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander
Voort
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's
life
Rick,
The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not
connected (no torque tube)
Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other.
Unless of course you place servos in both.
Same for aluminum trim tabs
Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs.
With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on
the stick to break something.
The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during
aerobatics (better bring a parachute)
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernadette" <docfont(at)voyager.net> |
| Subject: | email list question |
Greetings
We moved into a new place this month, , , with shop space big enough for airplane
building at last. My ISP couldn't forward my service so I have a new email
address. How do I change settings on this list to continue to receive the digest?
DocFont
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | corvair rebuild was Trim tab was pitch trim |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
Rob,
I have not seen the Wynne video on engine disassembly so I can't comment.
But taking one apart is the easy part.
Putting it back together is the hard part.
If you are unfamiliar with engine rebuilding, get William Wynne's tapes.
I only have the introduction tape but that seemed very informative.
For rebuilding the Corvair you must get, WW Manual, Richard Finch's book on
Corvair and the GM Shop manual
Hans
"Rob Stapleton"
Sent by: To
owner-pietenpol-l
ist-server@matron cc
ics.com
Subject
RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was
04/26/2006 01:54 pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Hans,
Oscar tells me you have experience with the Corvair rebuild? Can you
comment
on the Wynne video about taking the engine apart? If you have seen it.
Rob Stapleton
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander
Voort
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's
life
Rick,
The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not
connected (no torque tube)
Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other.
Unless of course you place servos in both.
Same for aluminum trim tabs
Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs.
With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on
the stick to break something.
The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during
aerobatics (better bring a parachute)
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a
pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both?
Rick H
On 4/25/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote:
>
> hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
>
> Rick,
>
> The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not
> connected (no torque tube)
> Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other.
> Unless of course you place servos in both.
> Same for aluminum trim tabs
>
> Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs.
> With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on
> the stick to break something.
>
> The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during
> aerobatics (better bring a parachute)
>
> Hans
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Don,
Your plane looks fantastic. Nice and clean.
Those wheel covers look great. How do you do those things?
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
Great idea, call it an ailevator. If you lose aileron control you can turn
using differential elevator and rudder control. Just like the controls on a
flying wing.
On 4/25/06, harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
>
> How bout having two individual control sticks,one for one side of the
> elevator and one for the other.That would make for some interesting flyin=
g
> eh!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jack T. Textor
> *Sent:* April 25, 2006 10:47 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life
>
>
> Rick,
>
> I too have considered the MAC. My RV 8 had one, they were great. The
> problem is the thickness of the Piets H-Stab is not enough to completely
> house the servo. Also the Stabs are not directly tied together.
>
> Jack Textor
>
>
> Thoughts of losing elevator control like this guy did is the reason that
I
> have thought of installing independent elevator trim as you see on Pipers
> and Cessnas. Have even looked at the Mac electronic trim servos, just a b=
ig
> RC servo that would fit inside one of the flippers with 3 wires running u=
p
> to the cockpit. Landing with only trim control wouldn't be fun but
> preferable to bailing out with no parachute.
>
> Rick H.
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
Rick,
I would put one on both, otherwise one would be in trim and one not.
You will get a rolling effect.
The cable and bellcrank system will transfer some trim to the other flipper
but not as efficient as a rigid torque tube.
Hans
"Rick Holland"
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was
pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life
04/26/2006 08:09
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a
pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both?
Rick H
On 4/25/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote:
hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Rick,
The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not
connected (no torque tube)
Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other.
Unless of course you place servos in both.
Same for aluminum trim tabs
Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs.
With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force on
the stick to break something.
The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during
aerobatics (better bring a parachute) ==========================
- The
Pietenwww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
========================= - NEW
MATRONICS========================= - nbsp;
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
================================================
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
On my old Lazair we used to have things called ruddervators on the
inverted V.They would both go up and down for elevator and for rudder
they would both go in the same direction .Very interesting set up on the
mixer at the front.If you ever get near a Lazair Ultralight,check it
out.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: April 26, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life
Great idea, call it an ailevator. If you lose aileron control you can
turn using differential elevator and rudder control. Just like the
controls on a flying wing.
On 4/25/06, harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
How bout having two individual control sticks,one for one side of the
elevator and one for the other.That would make for some interesting
flying eh!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T.
Textor
Sent: April 25, 2006 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life
Rick,
I too have considered the MAC. My RV 8 had one, they were great. The
problem is the thickness of the Piets H-Stab is not enough to completely
house the servo. Also the Stabs are not directly tied together.
Jack Textor
Thoughts of losing elevator control like this guy did is the reason that
I have thought of installing independent elevator trim as you see on
Pipers and Cessnas. Have even looked at the Mac electronic trim servos,
just a big RC servo that would fit inside one of the flippers with 3
wires running up to the cockpit. Landing with only trim control wouldn't
be fun but preferable to bailing out with no parachute.
Rick H.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
On my N3 Pup I have an in cabin control for cranking in and out for tab
setting either way,but the tab itself is only on one elevator and it's
close to the rudder side of that elevator.I don't get any role from
it,even when fully activated.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: April 26, 2006 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's
life
Rick,
I would put one on both, otherwise one would be in trim and one not.
You will get a rolling effect.
The cable and bellcrank system will transfer some trim to the other
flipper
but not as efficient as a rigid torque tube.
Hans
"Rick Holland"
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim tab was
pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's
life
04/26/2006 08:09
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a
pitch trim problem? You must put a tab on both?
Rick H
On 4/25/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote:
hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Rick,
The only problem I see with this is that the Elevator flippers are not
connected (no torque tube)
Thus you trim only one flipper and not the other.
Unless of course you place servos in both.
Same for aluminum trim tabs
Further the elevator cables are 3/32 with a strength of 1000+ Lbs.
With a 1 : 5 ratio on your stick you will need to put 200 Lbs of force
on
the stick to break something.
The only way you will such high stress on the tail surfaces is during
aerobatics (better bring a parachute) ==========================
- The
Pietenwww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
========================= - NEW
MATRONICS========================= - nbsp;
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
================================================
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: corvair rebuild was Trim tab was pitch trim |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
Hi,
I have the disassembly video. Like the stage 1 assembly video it is good. He
talks you through deciding what to keep and what to discard and gives you a heads-up
on things that are problematic and what areas people tend to break when
they do it incorrectly. What I value most in all of his materials is that he
presents it in a way that reduces the process of disassembly and making the conversion
to a straight-forward process that any careful somewhat mechanically
inclined individual should be able to reproduce. For the $20 I spent for the
video I think it was worth it.
I'm not a mechanic but I am a careful, mechanically inclined individual.
That's my opinion.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30836#30836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Fred when choosing brakes bear in mind that with large diameter wheels
it takes a lot of brake to stop it (airplanes quit using large wheels
about the same time they started using brakes). Look at the size of the
front disc on a Harley-Davidson. Most go-kart brakes have pretty small
discs (because they have small wheels).
I have regular 6" Cleveland hydraulic disc brakes on my Pietenpol, with
21" wheels. The brakes will stop it (gently), and will hold it for a
run-up but cannot hold it at full throttle. My advice would be to use
the largest diameter discs you can find.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TBYH(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brakes
I'm looking in to various go-kart brakes for my Piet and just wondering
what most of you use -- the mechanically actuated disc brakes, or the
hydraulic juice brake calipers. I see advantages/disadvantages to both
and wanted to see what all of the experts have to say! I'm building the
Jenny-style landing gear and will use disc brakes -- just wondering if
mechanical or juice...
Got all the tail feathers finished over the weekend -- less hinges (will
install those tonight). Came out nice and light...then I'll get the
fuselage down from the ceiling joists and start putting landing gear
together...
Hey, less than 90 days to Brodhead!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege=
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i=
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | greg menoche <gnwac(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Broadhead to Oshkosh |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
I hope you guys will forgive me if this has shown up on the list, but I
don't think it ever made it. I think it wound up in the spam heap.
Attached is a photo of A rib jig I made while buiding an Airbike wing.
It is mounted on a piece of particle board shelving and uses toggle
clamps instead of nails or staples. The advantage is that you can glue
gussets on both sides at one time. A little waxpaper helps keep the rib
from sticking to the jig.......Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org> |
I have thought about using Mtn Bike disk brakes. The largest I have seen
are 203mm or about 8", but another factor is that the pads probably
don't have as much surface area Clevland pads or even small go-kart pads
- so the friction coefficient between the pad and brake will be less
I'll do a bit more research and try to figure it out.
Is there anyone that has used MTB disk brakes on a Piet? Hydraulic or
Mechanical? What size wheels? What size disk? Shimano, Avid,.....?
Kirk
>>> Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com 04/26/06 9:18 AM >>>
Fred when choosing brakes bear in mind that with large diameter wheels
it takes a lot of brake to stop it (airplanes quit using large wheels
about the same time they started using brakes). Look at the size of the
front disc on a Harley-Davidson. Most go-kart brakes have pretty small
discs (because they have small wheels).
I have regular 6" Cleveland hydraulic disc brakes on my Pietenpol, with
21" wheels. The brakes will stop it (gently), and will hold it for a
run-up but cannot hold it at full throttle. My advice would be to use
the largest diameter discs you can find.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "The Schuerrs" <schuerrs(at)charter.net> |
OH YEA!!! I bought my first wood today. I'm replacing a friend's 2 ft.
window and, doggoneit, I couldn't find any suitable planking material in
the 2 foot section, but there was a beautiful 2x10x16 with the sweetest
grain, that should work fine(for a plank that will soon be my fuselage
and wing parts!!!
No plans, no ply, but at least I have my wood!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: spoked wheels |
Return-path:
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Full-name: RBush96589
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:28:02 EDT
Subject: spoked wheels
-------------------------------1146094082
hello group, this is for mike c. or jack phillips or for any one who used
buchanans spoke and wheel. i have my hubs turned and drilled and am planning
on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my question is. when i call to tell
them what i want to have done do i need to tell them these are for something
other than an airplane.seems like i heard something about they would not
build them for planes
thanks,Robert Bush
-------------------------------1146094082
hello group, this is for mike c. or jack phillips or f=
or
any one who used buchanans spoke and wheel. i have my hubs turned and
drilled and am planning on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my questio=
n
is. when i call to tell them what i want to have done do i need to tell them=
these are for something other than an airplane.seems like i heard something
about they would not build them for
planes &nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =
&nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; thanks,Robert
Bush =
-------------------------------1146094082--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: spoked wheels |
| From: | <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
go to mykitplane.com and print out the Buchanan's invoice I put in my files area
and ask for what they sent us......
Jim Markle
-----Original Message-----
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Subj: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: spoked wheels
Date: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:51 pm
Size: 1K
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:28:02 EDT
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Subject: spoked wheels
hello group,this is for mike c. or jack phillips or for any one who used
buchanans spoke and wheel. i havemy hubs turned and drilled and am planning on
buying my wheels and spokes from them. my question is. when i call to tell
them what i want to have done do i need to tell them these are for something
other than an airplane.seems like i heard something about they would not build
them for planesthanks,Robert Bush
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WAHOO!!!!!!! |
Well that's step 1, now for step 2. The end will soon be in sight.
Hopefully you have a saw.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: The Schuerrs
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WAHOO!!!!!!!
OH YEA!!! I bought my first wood today. I'm replacing a friend's 2
ft. window and, doggoneit, I couldn't find any suitable planking
material in the 2 foot section, but there was a beautiful 2x10x16 with
the sweetest grain, that should work fine(for a plank that will soon be
my fuselage and wing parts!!!
No plans, no ply, but at least I have my wood!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Fred,
I have 19" spoked wheels on mine. I use a 5" mechanical drum brake from Kart World
out of Cleveland, OH. The brakes are very simple and low profile. They
are cable actuated and are attached to hand levers under the instument panel.
The hand levers are just aftermarket motorcycle handles from a local motorcycle
shop. They are placed close enough together that I can hold both of them at
once for the run-up. They are just enough to barely hold the run-up. Sometimes,
by the time I finish the run-up I've crept a foot or so. I can deal with
that. The only other time I use them is for taxiing. They seem to be okay
for that. A liitle planning ahead is a good idea too.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30982#30982
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Bill...
The wheel covers are just regular doped fabric. I made an aluminum disk/ring at
the hub on both the inside and the outside. Glued the fabric to it then positioned
it over the hub. Then just glued the fabric around the inside edge of
the rim where the tire mounts. Made sure I had a few inches of glued area around
there. Then just finished it like any other doped fabric. Tire mounting
is not fun! Lots of soap, little wood wedges, cussing, and sore fingers. I
am not looking forward to replacing those things some day. I'll have to make
sure the kids aren't around when I do!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30984#30984
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
In a message dated 4/26/2006 8:11:46 AM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
So attaching a metal trim tab to the back of one flipper will not fix a pitch
trim problem? You must put a tab on both?
Rick,
If you are using this method, you need a trim tab on Both flippers. I would
caution against using metal tabs, because holes for the screws in the wood
will not only weaken the wood slightly, it is also a point for moisture
infiltration.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
In a message dated 4/26/2006 8:16:31 AM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
Great idea, call it an ailevator. If you lose aileron control you can turn
using differential elevator and rudder control. Just like the controls on a
flying wing.
One of the guys in my Hillhoppers R. C. Flying Club (years ago) used separate
servo's on each half of the flippers, and coupled them with the ailerons,
using the new type computer radio. The intent was to get a higher roll rate.
It
made no noticable difference. Conclusion was that the flippers do not have a
long enough arm away from the longititude axis to have any effect, other than
causing a lot of drag and slowing down the airspeed. Lesson learned.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Anderson" <piet4ken(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Broadhead to Oshkosh |
Heres some places that we have stayed.
Crazy Horse Campground.
N3201 Crazy Horse Ln.
Brodhead, WI 53520
Voice: (608) 897-2207
Fax: (608) 897-3611
E-mail: info(at)crazyhorsewi.com
Outside Link: www.crazyhorsewi.com
Description: Beautiful family campground on the Sugar River. Canoes, tubes, paddle
boats, fishing, driving range, batting cages, mini golf, pool, store, game
room, activities, pedal karts.
Large campground with alot of activities for famlies. Very popular with famlies
with kids. Pool is smallish and can get crowded. Fishing at the river. Good plase
to stay. 10min to the airport.
Flanagans Pearl Lake Campground
W 4585 S Pearl Lake Rd.
Red Granite, WI 54970
Voice: (920) 566-2758
E-mail: plcamp(at)vbe.com
Description: 30 miles west of Oshkosh E.A.A. Convention. 50 acres of shaded sites.
Large, sandy, filtered swimming pond. Modern facilities. Scheduled activities.
Credit cards accepted.
Have stayed here several times. Nice place all sites tree covered. Water spigots
can be some distance from site have plenty of hose. Fairly large sandy pond
for swimming about 5ft deep. Don't think there's any fishing. Usually have sites
available last minuite. Bar with food on site.
Hickory Oaks Campground
3485 Vinland Road (Mailing address: 555 Glendale Avenue)
Oshkosh, WI 54901
Voice: (920) 235-6694
Fax: (920) 235-2610
E-mail: flyincamp(at)aol.com
Description: Located 1.5 miles from the city of Oshkosh. Class 1 Fish Hatchery
License. New modern toilet/shower facilities.
Located off first exit north of lake butte des morts around the corner from the
prison. About 10 minuite drive to airventure. Stayed here many times. Large
pond for swimming boating fishing. No fishing license needed. Usually a row boat
and pedal boat available. Grass strip on site. Owner has a Cub sometimes gives
rides in the evening.
Tell Bob I recommended it.
----- Original Message -----
From: brian jardine
Sent: 4/24/2006 2:04:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Broadhead to Oshkosh
Group,
I am planning a cross-country trip (driving) from Utah to Broadhead, and then on
to Air Adventure at Oshkosh. I am bringing my 3 young boys, 12, 9, and 5. I
hope to give them a good dose of Piet exposure. Does anyone have any recommendations
for camping at Broadhead, and campgrounds near Oshkosh? I have looked
at the Air Adventure planning on their website, but not familiar with the area,
I don't know which sites are better than others. I'm sure reservations fill
up fast. Hopefully something with fishing close by, to entertain the boys in the
evening. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks.
Brian
Clinton, UT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
Don,
How did you enlarge the hole in the backing plates to fit over the axel and
the hubs? How did you mount them? Pictures?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> I have 19" spoked wheels on mine. I use a 5" mechanical drum brake from
> Kart World out of Cleveland, OH. The brakes are very simple and low
> profile. They are cable actuated and are attached to hand levers under
> the instument panel. The hand levers are just aftermarket motorcycle
> handles from a local motorcycle shop. They are placed close enough
> together that I can hold both of them at once for the run-up. They are
> just enough to barely hold the run-up. Sometimes, by the time I finish
> the run-up I've crept a foot or so. I can deal with that. The only other
> time I use them is for taxiing. They seem to be okay for that. A liitle
> planning ahead is a good idea too.
>
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30982#30982
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don E's Airplane--from Ohio |
Don, can you enlighten us on your tailwheel design?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: spoked wheels |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Hi Robert,
Here is the email that I originally sent Buchanan's. I just said it was
a replica of an antique. Didn't say antique "what".
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillips, Jack [mailto:jphillip(at)alarismed.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:31 AM
Subject: New Spokes
I have a pair of front wheels for a replica of an antique that I am
putting
together and need new spokes made and laced up. If I send you my new
hubs,
and the existing 3.00 x 21" rims that I have (36 spoke) how much would
you
charge to make new stainless steel spokes and lace and true the wheels
for
me? The new hubs are wider than the rims were originally used on, so I
might have to buy new aluminum rims from you, but hopefully you can use
them. How long should I expect it to take?
Please let me know and I will send them off to you.
Thank you,
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com [mailto:RBush96589(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: spoked wheels
hello group, this is for mike c. or jack phillips or for any one who
used buchanans spoke and wheel. i have my hubs turned and drilled and am
planning on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my question is. when
i call to tell them what i want to have done do i need to tell them
these are for something other than an airplane.seems like i heard
something about they would not build them for planes
thanks,Robert Bush
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege=
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i=
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | RE: spoked wheels |
I sent this but not sure if it ever showed up on the list...if
so....ignore!
Anyway, a copy of my Buchanan's (and the tire company and the go cart
brake) invoices are scanned and stored over on www.mykitplane.com under
my files.
Jim Markle
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: RBush96589(at)aol.com ; Pietenpol-List
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: spoked wheels
Hi Robert,
Here is the email that I originally sent Buchanan's. I just said it
was a replica of an antique. Didn't say antique "what".
-----Original Message-----
From: Phillips, Jack [mailto:jphillip(at)alarismed.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:31 AM
To: 'sales(at)buchananspokes.com'
Subject: New Spokes
I have a pair of front wheels for a replica of an antique that I am
putting
together and need new spokes made and laced up. If I send you my new
hubs,
and the existing 3.00 x 21" rims that I have (36 spoke) how much would
you
charge to make new stainless steel spokes and lace and true the wheels
for
me? The new hubs are wider than the rims were originally used on, so
I
might have to buy new aluminum rims from you, but hopefully you can
use
them. How long should I expect it to take?
Please let me know and I will send them off to you.
Thank you,
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com [mailto:RBush96589(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:28 PM
To: pietenpollist(at)matronics.com
Subject: spoked wheels
hello group, this is for mike c. or jack phillips or for any one who
used buchanans spoke and wheel. i have my hubs turned and drilled and am
planning on buying my wheels and spokes from them. my question is. when
i call to tell them what i want to have done do i need to tell them
these are for something other than an airplane.seems like i heard
something about they would not build them for planes
thanks,Robert Bush
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
Chris,
I used the same brakes with exactly the same operation. Enough to hold but
not enough to get into trouble. Used them just this morning for a beautiful
36f flight.I made up a heel pedal setup that works great too.
Open up the drums with my nifty little Harbor Freight tool lathe. Always
wanted one, and was not dissapointed with this one. Used it lots of times to
make wheel hubs, collars, blah, blah
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes
>
>
> Don,
>
> How did you enlarge the hole in the backing plates to fit over the axel
> and the hubs? How did you mount them? Pictures?
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:53 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes
>
>
>>
>> Hi Fred,
>>
>> I have 19" spoked wheels on mine. I use a 5" mechanical drum brake from
>> Kart World out of Cleveland, OH. The brakes are very simple and low
>> profile. They are cable actuated and are attached to hand levers under
>> the instument panel. The hand levers are just aftermarket motorcycle
>> handles from a local motorcycle shop. They are placed close enough
>> together that I can hold both of them at once for the run-up. They are
>> just enough to barely hold the run-up. Sometimes, by the time I finish
>> the run-up I've crept a foot or so. I can deal with that. The only
>> other time I use them is for taxiing. They seem to be okay for that. A
>> liitle planning ahead is a good idea too.
>>
>> Don Emch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30982#30982
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
NX311CC ownership has been handed over to Tim Willis of this net. He
departed Corky's after much loading and huffin and puffin. He seems happy with
his
stuff. Corky is releived of this responsibility. More time available to spend
with his bride and sip julips like all elder southern gentlemen are suppose
to do. He has enjoyed the hobby for the last 6 yrs and especially the action
on this net. Building and flying your own airplane is more than a normal
college education. It would be hard to find an activity that required the personal
mechanical and technical skills and all other allied functions required to
complete an airplane. I would venture to guess that only about 5% who begin
ever complete and fly. Hope I'm wrong. I'll continue to monitor this series of
rare epistles but will try to refrain from clicking on the "write" icon. Just
remember one important thing:
Old Pieters never die
They just drip away
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Bill,
Thanks for your nice letter. Let me correct one thing: The bureaus didn't
stop me from flying 41CC, I flew hell out of it. However, I think at my age
that I enjoyed building more than flying so that's when I began 311CC and Oscar
had asked for 41CC.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tail wheel & spring |
| From: | "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org> |
Thanks guys for the suggestions. This Piet-list is a great thing.
Arden Adamson
Waupaca, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
Thanks Jim,Jack, and Larry for the info on Buchanans.
Thanks,
Robert Bush
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Chris,
Mine look exactly like Walts! If I remember correctly the hole dia. was about
5/8". I am Tool and Die Maker by trade so there are a lot of things on the plane
that were made or modified on the lathe. When I made those though I was laid
off and didn't have access to a lathe so I put the on my drill press at home
clamped them down really tight said a little prayer and open them up with the
right size hole saw. Finshed 'em off with some filing.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31179#31179
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Don
I bought my Wildwood hyd brake calipers from Kart World also. Unfortunatly
they are now out of business.
I have been searching for someplace else for parts, when I need them.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brakes
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> I have 19" spoked wheels on mine. I use a 5" mechanical drum brake from
> Kart World out of Cleveland, OH. The brakes are very simple and low
> profile. They are cable actuated and are attached to hand levers under
> the instument panel. The hand levers are just aftermarket motorcycle
> handles from a local motorcycle shop. They are placed close enough
> together that I can hold both of them at once for the run-up. They are
> just enough to barely hold the run-up. Sometimes, by the time I finish
> the run-up I've crept a foot or so. I can deal with that. The only other
> time I use them is for taxiing. They seem to be okay for that. A liitle
> planning ahead is a good idea too.
>
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30982#30982
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Some friends stopped by the hangar and we fired up the new engine. It's
running in this pic. Looks like I've got some trouble. The pic was
taken on a camera phone. The prop is just fine. Strange illusion.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: prop trouble? |
Dick, send that into AvWeb's picture of the week... that prop illusion
looks pretty wild. Might win a hat.
-M
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:01 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: prop trouble?
Some friends stopped by the hangar and we fired up the new engine.
It's running in this pic. Looks like I've got some trouble. The pic
was taken on a camera phone. The prop is just fine. Strange illusion.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab was pitch trim saved Sean Tucker's life |
I use two ground-adjustable aluminum tabs on the elevators of my
Pietenpol. They are fastened to the underside of the trailing edge with
a couple of screws and zinc chromate putty (as used in aircraft floats)
is used to seal the screw holes against moisture entry.
These tabs are adjusted to trim for level cruising flight when the
forward fuselage fuel tank is 1/2 to 2/3 full. With a full tank, the
plane is nose-heavy and I trim by increasing power. As the fuel burns
off (and the a/c becomes lighter), I reduce power as required to trim
for level flight.
This works quite well, but I really would like to have a controllable
elevator trim tab as a backup in case of elevator control failure. Years
ago, I planned to incorporate one but never got around to doing so. I
have flown a Piet with such a system and it worked very well. The trim
tab was on one elevator only, and was added after the aircraft had been
flown for several years.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: prop trouble? |
Hey, I got a couple like that too!
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=3D28
They were taken with my old, cheap digital.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop trouble?
Some friends stopped by the hangar and we fired up the new engine.
It's running in this pic. Looks like I've got some trouble. The pic
was taken on a camera phone. The prop is just fine. Strange illusion.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tailwheel design |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Chris,
My tailwheel design is fairly simple but a picture would help much better than
trying to explain. I'm headed to the airport in the morning so I'll get some
pictures and post them. It may not be the best idea out there but seems to be
working.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31285#31285
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Cool Engine! Weird prop.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop trouble?
Some friends stopped by the hangar and we fired up the new engine. It's
running in this pic. Looks like I've got some trouble. The pic was
taken on a camera phone. The prop is just fine. Strange illusion.
Dick N.
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege=
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i=
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
I'm thinking about getting a shop press. Seems like it would be a handy item
for the metal work. What's the best size to get for a Piet project?
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31315#31315
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
Don't think we ever used one on our 6 Piets. Now... the tabletop belt sander
is another story... used for wood or steel it is the most used tool in our
shop, sometimes you have to wait in line to use it.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tools
>
>
> I'm thinking about getting a shop press. Seems like it would be a handy
> item for the metal work. What's the best size to get for a Piet project?
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31315#31315
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
I agree the table top belt sander is a must have item in my shop.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tools
>
> Don't think we ever used one on our 6 Piets. Now... the tabletop belt
> sander is another story... used for wood or steel it is the most used tool
> in our shop, sometimes you have to wait in line to use it.
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:10 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tools
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm thinking about getting a shop press. Seems like it would be a handy
>> item for the metal work. What's the best size to get for a Piet project?
>>
>> --------
>> Glenn Thomas
>> N?????
>> http://www.flyingwood.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31315#31315
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
That, the wood-cutting bandsaw, the metal-cutting bandsaw, and the drill
press
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catdesign
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tools
I agree the table top belt sander is a must have item in my shop.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tools
>
> Don't think we ever used one on our 6 Piets. Now... the tabletop belt
> sander is another story... used for wood or steel it is the most used
tool
> in our shop, sometimes you have to wait in line to use it.
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:10 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tools
>
>
>>
>>
>> I'm thinking about getting a shop press. Seems like it would be a
handy
>> item for the metal work. What's the best size to get for a Piet
project?
>>
>> --------
>> Glenn Thomas
>> N?????
>> http://www.flyingwood.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31315#31315
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
So, I take it, that all the bending can simply be done with a vise? I thought
a press and a die would be necessary to get good clean bends in control horns,
fittings, etc. I guess I can save the money (and shop space).
Thanks!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31365#31365
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Glenn,
Are you talking about a hydraulic shop press? Something like this?
(attached photo)...
Not too sure how handy it would be for this project.
Unless you have access to a metal shop with shear, brake press, punch
press, notcher, etc (like some of us are fortunate enough to have), I
think the most useful metal working tools for building a Piet would be:
1. a metal cutting bandsaw
2. a drill press
3. a 4" angle grinder - with sanding discs and cut-off wheels
(attached photo)
4. a good big vise with some metal bending dies (see this link)
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3D2&p=3D32011&cat=3D1,43456,434=
07
5. and the bench mount belt/disc sander mentioned by others
Most of the bending on the Piet is narrow strips (or very light gauge
stuff), so the vise-mounted dies should be adequate. So, unless you have
other, non-Piet uses for a shop press, I would spend my money in other
areas.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> |
Glenn,
Me and my buddy Paul are just starting to work on the fittings of various
thickness 4130. Make a bending block per Tony Bengelis. That, and a
mallet, are all you need to cold-bend fittings (all the way up to .0125!).
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools
>
> So, I take it, that all the bending can simply be done with a vise? I
thought a press and a die would be necessary to get good clean bends in
control horns, fittings, etc. I guess I can save the money (and shop
space).
>
> Thanks!
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31365#31365
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | a serious post about cutting 4130 sheet |
If you can find a metal working shop near your house that can shear up some
strips of .060 and .090" thick 4130
sheet for you ( shear WITH the grain lettering for safe/good bends) of
various plans-required widths, you'll save so much hassle
from having to band saw them up, not to mention saving the price on what
Aircraft Spruce or others charge for 4130 strip material.
If you look at the plans you really only need about 3 or 4 various wide
strips of 4130 sheet material to build the entire airplane.
It is WORTH looking around for a shop near you who has a shear capable of
cutting .060 and .090 sheet !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | what holds up a project |
Harvey-- I built and flew my Pietenpol in 4.5 years WITH a fridge, TV, and
no phone turned on 97% of the time.
What would have held me up would have been a wife and kids, not the fridge !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: a serious post about cutting 4130 sheet |
In a message dated 4/28/2006 11:28:19 A.M. Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
from having to band saw them up, not to mention saving the price on what
Aircraft Spruce or others charge for 4130 strip material.
Wicks would always strip a sheet of 4130 18 in X 18 in to my specs without
any extra charge.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gas Tank Location |
| From: | "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com> |
Would any one like to comment on how low the bottom of the fuel tank
should be mounted (or their successful installation) in the nose area of
a Piet=3F I would like to start to mock up the fuel tank to be located in
the nose, supplying fuel to an updraft carb, mounted under a Corvair
engine. I will complete a flow test as discussed in previous valued
comments found in the archive.
Thanks all,
John (my two most used power tools were the band saw and the table top
sander)
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contai=
n=
privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from
disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please
inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any
printed copy. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
I went to the Lee Valley site and added a few things (including the vise dies)
to my wish list. Thanks again Bill.
I've been going through one of the Tony Bengelis books but haven't hit that topic
yet. I'll look for it tonight. Thanks Alan.
Actually thanks to all. When it comes to tools it's easy to get carried away!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31398#31398
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Glenn,
If you don't already have them, get Tony Bingelis' books (I thought I'd
say that before Mike Cuy did). I think the second one "Sportplane
Construction Techniques" is the one that shows step-by-step how to make
aircraft fittings.
All you need are a good vise, a good hammer (I used a 2-1/2 lb sledge)
and an "anvil" made from a piece of 1/4" steel with a variety of bend
radii ground onto its edges. It is helpful to have a metal cutting
bandsaw (I bought one from Grizzly for about $200 that worked great) and
I used the sanding disc on the side of my belt sander quite a bit, but
it is possible to do everything with handtools - hacksaw and a file.
Fittings seem to be a pain at first but by the time I finished building
the plane, the metal work and welding was my favorite part.
Jack Phillips
Hoping to fly NX899JP this weekend
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools
So, I take it, that all the bending can simply be done with a vise? I
thought a press and a die would be necessary to get good clean bends in
control horns, fittings, etc. I guess I can save the money (and shop
space).
Thanks!
--------
Glenn Thomas
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
Thanks Jack,
I've got the four books but I've been reading the Sportplane Builder as my last
bit of Piet activity every night before I hit the sack. It seemed like the logical
first book to read. I have a long flight to Asia in a couple weeks so
I'll bring all 4 of them and see how far I get. Will definitely hit the Sportplane
Construction Techniques tonight. I'm working on the ribs still, but want
to order my metal so I can get started on the wing metal parts soon. This
will align me for completing the wing project this summer (hopefully).
Thanks
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31408#31408
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Another book that is useful is the EAA's Aircraft Welding book. There
is a one-page article in it written by (who else?) Tony Bingelis in
which he explains how to make the flared ends on tubing that are used in
a number of places on the Pietenpol, such as the spreader bar on solid
axle landing gear, and the pushrod that goes between the joysticks on
the torque tube. I used this technique on my jury struts as well as the
pushrods I used to connect my front rudder pedals to the rudder bar (so
I didn't have to use return springs), and the pushrod connecting the
front and rear throttles.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tools
Thanks Jack,
I've got the four books but I've been reading the Sportplane Builder as
my last bit of Piet activity every night before I hit the sack. It
seemed like the logical first book to read. I have a long flight to
Asia in a couple weeks so I'll bring all 4 of them and see how far I
get. Will definitely hit the Sportplane Construction Techniques
tonight. I'm working on the ribs still, but want to order my metal so I
can get started on the wing metal parts soon. This will align me for
completing the wing project this summer (hopefully).
Thanks
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31408#31408
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: what holds up a project |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
I hear that! I basically work on the project on weekends. To justify a solid
day of the weekend on the Piet, I feel an obligation to be a husband the other
day. (1 day a week!!!) Son is now in college so no hockey/lacrosse to cause
further time away from project. I have learned to tuck Piet time into free hour
blocks that are not consumed by other things. Early mornings (no power tools)
and late evenings are good quality Piet time. You will see shop lights on
well into the morning hours if I'm on a roll. Time mgmt is a bigger part of
this than I previously thought.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31427#31427
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Location |
John,
My tank sits on the existing ply deck from the plans for the long
fuselage. My tank is 14 gallons, which is plenty big enough (with a 10
gal backup in the wing C/C).
Be careful going too low in the front, with more chance of fuel
starvation on climbout.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Egan, John
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gas Tank Location
Would any one like to comment on how low the bottom of the fuel tank
should be mounted (or their successful installation) in the nose area of
a Piet? I would like to start to mock up the fuel tank to be located in
the nose, supplying fuel to an updraft carb, mounted under a Corvair
engine. I will complete a flow test as discussed in previous valued
comments found in the archive.
Thanks all,
John (my two most used power tools were the band saw and the table top
sander)
-----
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may
contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is
exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in
error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail
and destroy any printed copy. Thank you.
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: a serious post about cutting 4130 sheet |
RE: Wicks
I had the same excellent service from Wicks.
Lou Larsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | more prop trouble? |
My friend just forwarded an even weirder pic.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | covering of root rib |
Hi guys,
How did you guys finish your wing root rib with covering? Did you bring
the covering across it so it is solid with controls coming through or
did you trim the covering and glue it around the edge and inside of the
rib?
I'm leaning towards the latter as it allows more access and inspection.
probably doesn't matter as the gap is covered anyways.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ford Model B with chevy Head |
Hi Everybody
I was down at the local hardware store in Ontario Oregon and the local
antique motor club had a display of old motors running.
One was a ford model B with a 41 chevy head mounted via an aluminium
adapter plate about 1" thick.
The man claimed about 100 HP with twin stomberg 93 carbs and about 7:1
compression ratio. There was also an adapter to convert the chevy head back
to the "late" model 1934 V8 waterpump. He was going to put it a car.
I took some pictures of each side and could post them if anybody would like
to see them.
You just never know what you will see each day.
Best regards
Steve G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: covering of root rib |
Hi Douwe,
The covering on the end ribs of NX18235 was trimmed for ease of
inspection. I can't think of any good reason to cover the ends.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering of root rib
Hi guys,
How did you guys finish your wing root rib with covering? Did you
bring the covering across it so it is solid with controls coming through
or did you trim the covering and glue it around the edge and inside of
the rib?
I'm leaning towards the latter as it allows more access and
inspection.
probably doesn't matter as the gap is covered anyways.
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gas Tank Location |
In a message dated 4/28/2006 11:59:50 AM Central Standard Time, jegan(at)kcc.co=
m
writes:
Would any one like to comment on how low the bottom of the fuel tank should
be mounted (or their successful installation) in the nose area of a Piet? I=
would like to start to mock up the fuel tank to be located in the nose,
supplying fuel to an updraft carb, mounted under a Corvair engine. I will c=
omplete a
flow test as discussed in previous valued comments found in the archive.
Thanks all,
John
Fuel related problems are the most common reason that airplane engines
stop running. There are a LOT of factors to consider when designing a fuel
system. Some of which are:
1) The outlet should be the lowest point in the tank, in order that ALL
water will find it's way out when the plane is in the static laden position
(sitting tail on the ground).
2) There should be a removable finger screen in the outlet, to catch all th=
e
garbage that seems to find it's way into the tank.
3) The mounting system must be able to sustain at least 3 times the weight
of the total fuel capacity.
4) Quantity indicator must be reliable, and be able to monitor it in flight=
- Not Electric..too unreliable. A fuel cap with a cork & wire indicator is
simple and easy to make, and should also include a 90=BA Ram tube (1/4" tubi=
ng)
facing into the prop wash - to maintain a little bit of pressure in the fuel=
tank.
5) Fuel shut off valve on Certified planes must be behind the firewall, but=
I put mine on the front of the firewall before I realized that fact. My
reasoning is that there is No portion of my fuel system inside the cockpit a=
rea -
no leaks can find their way into the cockpit.
6) 3/8" fuel lines to maintain enough quantity flow.
7) Gascolator Must be in the lowest point in the fuel system (even lower
than the carb), to collect water. However, it Must be above the lower edge=20=
of
the firewall, in case you wipe out the landing gear, it will Not rupture the=
fuel lines.
For my cowling tank, the bottom is sloped forward, so when the plane is
in the static laden position (tail on the ground) any drops of water will dr=
ain
out of the tank, into the gascolator. No fuel lines or fittings are in the
front cockpit. I installed a fitting on the top, at about 10 O'Clock positi=
on
(viewed from the cockpit), to fill it from the wing. My quantity indicator=20=
is
a cork & wire, similar to a J3.
I made my fiberglass cowl tank with the flanges on the sides of the tank=
,
to rest on the top of the longerons. I put a lot of time and thought into
the mold for the tank. I made the inlet on the top left side, (at about 10
O'clock pilot's view), and made a fiberglass blister stand outboard of the
cowling, to prevent possibility of leaks entering the cowling. The outlet i=
s also
outside of the cowling shelf, and points forward. There is an EL fitting, t=
hen
the 3/8" ball valve that is cable operated. The bottom of the tank slopes
forward, while in the tail down attitude (as it sits in the hanger), so any=20=
water
in the tank makes it's way all the way out of the tank, and into the
gascolator (a very important design criteria). I used the aluminum 'weldabl=
e
fittings' that AS&S sells, glassed in, at the inlet and outlet. On the outl=
et side, I
modified a finger screen, so it threads into the 'weldable fitting', by
taping the o.d. threads, and then the 90=BA EL threads into the 'weldable f=
itting'
on top of the finger screen. As a result, I was able to squeeze a lot of fu=
el
in the cowling tank. It holds 10.7 gals. I didn't know how much fuel it
would hold, till I did a leak test, by setting it up at the gas pump, at the=
angle
the tank sits in the plane, and put one gallon in at a time, then dipping a
stick into the fuel, to mark off each additional gallon. That's how I made=20=
my
'Fuel Quantity Indicator'. I topped it all the way off, then put the full
tank in my trunk, brought it home and left it sit for 3 or 4 days to check f=
or
leaks - No Leaks !! My wing tank holds 9.8 gals. so my total fuel onboard=20=
can
be 20 gal. That's a lot of fuel. I don't think I could sit there long
enough to burn that much fuel at a time, but on the way back from Oshkosh, I=
did do
one 4 hr leg, and two 3 1/2 hr legs, and still had plenty of reserve. But
you know what they say - "The only time you have too much fuel onboard, is w=
hen
you're on fire !!" It was quite a chore to design and build this tank, but=20=
it
all works very well, and I'm pleased with how it turned out. I have lots of=
pictures at : http://nx770cg.com/FuelSystem.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
> I am very glad to have taken over Corky's project. However, I can't be a substitute
for his knowledge, experience, and wry comments. We still very much need his active
membership on this board. Who else has built two Piets, rebuilt an A-65, and flown
many taildraggers in combat? Who else can cook crawdads while leading and playing
in a German "Oompah" band? He does it all. No kidding.
>
> Meeting and socializing with Corky and his lovely wife Isabel were highlights
of my trip to Shreveport. He is every much either as salty or gentlemanly in real
life as in his posts. He is lucky to have such a sweet, gracious, and supportive
partner, and he knows it.
>
> As before, I will rely on Corky and the many others of you who have been this
road before to help me finish this project. Your guidance up to now has been stellar.
I have met, had extensive phone conversations, and detailed emails off-board with
many of you. Now having NX311CC in hand, my questions will be more advanced and
granular. But I'll still be a newbie to building and flying, so please continue
your patience and support.
>
> Thanks to Corky and you all.
>
> Tim
strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com
timothywillis(at)earthlink.net
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wood trailing edge attachment |
Could anyone give me advice on the best way to attach a wood training edge?
I have seen the "inside triangle block technique" at Broadhead (see
pictures), and have done the "1/16" diamond shaped ply on top and bottom",
and some people in the archives have mentioned that they had problems after
a number of years with rectangular 1/2" wide 1/16" ply strips attached top
and bottom.
Thanks
Rick H.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood trailing edge attachment |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood trailing edge attachment |
Jim,
I did mine exactly the way you did it. (only used different tools) with
good results
Rick,
Seems to me the triangle blocks amount to lots of weight. If I decided
on the blocks, I would only make them about 3/8 to1/2" long on the right
angle sides at most.
Still best to build to the plans,,,I think.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Well, I don't know about "best" way but here's a nice simple way:
Cut grooves in the TE of the rib (I used a biscuit jointer) and leave
a tongue in the "front" part of the TE that will go into that grooves.
You could even use a biscuit jointer on both and insert a biscuit.
I left a tongue on the "front" of the TE material and used a laminate
trimmer bit to remove the extra after I epoxied the TE material into the
groove at the back end of the ribs...
Not sure how clear this is but if the attached picture leaves you with
more questions or wanting more clarity, send me a note offline.
Jim in Plano......
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: Apr 30, 2006 11:23 AM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Could anyone give me advice on the best way to attach a wood
training edge? I have seen the "inside triangle block technique" at
Broadhead (see pictures), and have done the "1/16" diamond shaped ply on
top and bottom", and some people in the archives have mentioned that
they had problems after a number of years with rectangular 1/2" wide
1/16" ply strips attached top and bottom.
Thanks
Rick H.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood trailing edge attachment |
Usually true, but the plans show two methods and don't show the shape of th=
e
1/16" ply pieces if you go that route.
>
> Still best to build to the plans,,,I think.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
> Ben Franklin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jim Markle
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 30, 2006 1:51 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
>
> Well, I don't know about "best" way but here's a nice simple way:
>
> Cut grooves in the TE of the rib (I used a biscuit jointer) and leave a
> tongue in the "front" part of the TE that will go into that grooves. You
> could even use a biscuit jointer on both and insert a biscuit.
>
> I left a tongue on the "front" of the TE material and used a laminate
> trimmer bit to remove the extra after I epoxied the TE material into the
> groove at the back end of the ribs...
>
> Not sure how clear this is but if the attached picture leaves you with
> more questions or wanting more clarity, send me a note offline.
>
> Jim in Plano......
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland
> Sent: Apr 30, 2006 11:23 AM
> To: pietenpol-list
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
>
> Could anyone give me advice on the best way to attach a wood training
> edge? I have seen the "inside triangle block technique" at Broadhead (see
> pictures), and have done the "1/16" diamond shaped ply on top and bottom"=
,
> and some people in the archives have mentioned that they had problems aft=
er
> a number of years with rectangular 1/2" wide 1/16" ply strips attached to=
p
> and bottom.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick H.
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ford Model B with chevy Head |
Hi Leon
Please find attached two pictures of the motor.
Best regards
Steve Glass
>From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Model B with chevy Head
>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:38:27 -0400
>
>
>Hi Everybody
>
>I was down at the local hardware store in Ontario Oregon and the local
>antique motor club had a display of old motors running.
>
>One was a ford model B with a 41 chevy head mounted via an aluminium
>adapter plate about 1" thick.
>
>The man claimed about 100 HP with twin stomberg 93 carbs and about 7:1
>compression ratio. There was also an adapter to convert the chevy head
>back to the "late" model 1934 V8 waterpump. He was going to put it a car.
>
>I took some pictures of each side and could post them if anybody would like
>to see them.
>
>You just never know what you will see each day.
>
>Best regards
>Steve G
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Ford Model B with chevy Head |
Hi Leon
Please find attached two pictures of the motor.
Best regards
Steve Glass
>From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ford Model B with chevy Head
>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:38:27 -0400
>
>
>Hi Everybody
>
>I was down at the local hardware store in Ontario Oregon and the local
>antique motor club had a display of old motors running.
>
>One was a ford model B with a 41 chevy head mounted via an aluminium
>adapter plate about 1" thick.
>
>The man claimed about 100 HP with twin stomberg 93 carbs and about 7:1
>compression ratio. There was also an adapter to convert the chevy head
>back to the "late" model 1934 V8 waterpump. He was going to put it a car.
>
>I took some pictures of each side and could post them if anybody would like
>to see them.
>
>You just never know what you will see each day.
>
>Best regards
>Steve G
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood trailing edge attachment |
Rick,
>From memory, I think they are the width of the cap strip and long enough
to span the joint. Then if you do,,,and use three ply 1/16' ply, be
sure to cut it with the top and bottom grain going across the joint.
I was /am very fortunite to have a mentor who would give great advice
from just being there. He never met Bernard but had spoken to him on the
phone. He's the one who told me that the old certified Aeroncas and
Taylorcrafts gussets on the wing ribs were made of paperboard.
And the Pietenpol articles explain how the leading edge ply was made out
of Quacker Oatmeal boxes.
Go figure.
Ain't Life Grand!!
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Usually true, but the plans show two methods and don't show the shape
of the 1/16" ply pieces if you go that route.
Still best to build to the plans,,,I think.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Well, I don't know about "best" way but here's a nice simple way:
Cut grooves in the TE of the rib (I used a biscuit jointer) and
leave a tongue in the "front" part of the TE that will go into that
grooves. You could even use a biscuit jointer on both and insert a
biscuit.
I left a tongue on the "front" of the TE material and used a
laminate trimmer bit to remove the extra after I epoxied the TE material
into the groove at the back end of the ribs...
Not sure how clear this is but if the attached picture leaves you
with more questions or wanting more clarity, send me a note offline.
Jim in Plano......
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: Apr 30, 2006 11:23 AM
To: pietenpol-list
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Could anyone give me advice on the best way to attach a wood
training edge? I have seen the "inside triangle block technique" at
Broadhead (see pictures), and have done the "1/16" diamond shaped ply on
top and bottom", and some people in the archives have mentioned that
they had problems after a number of years with rectangular 1/2" wide
1/16" ply strips attached top and bottom.
Thanks
Rick H.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood trailing edge attachment |
Jim Take a look at www.stantonairfield.com
This is the airport that we own I serve as a director.
I wish we could have visited it when you were here.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
Sent: 4/30/2006 12:58:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Well, I don't know about "best" way but here's a nice simple way:
Cut grooves in the TE of the rib (I used a biscuit jointer) and leave a tongue
in the "front" part of the TE that will go into that grooves. You could even
use a biscuit jointer on both and insert a biscuit.
I left a tongue on the "front" of the TE material and used a laminate trimmer bit
to remove the extra after I epoxied the TE material into the groove at the
back end of the ribs...
Not sure how clear this is but if the attached picture leaves you with more questions
or wanting more clarity, send me a note offline.
Jim in Plano......
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: Apr 30, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood trailing edge attachment
Could anyone give me advice on the best way to attach a wood training edge? I have
seen the "inside triangle block technique" at Broadhead (see pictures), and
have done the "1/16" diamond shaped ply on top and bottom", and some people
in the archives have mentioned that they had problems after a number of years
with rectangular 1/2" wide 1/16" ply strips attached top and bottom.
Thanks
Rick H.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wing tip brace question |
Concerning the 1/2" x 1/2" spruce braces shown on the wing plans that exten=
d
from the wing tip diagonally to the front and rear spars, are there one of
each, (three total) or two of each (six total - wing tip to the top of the
spar and another below it to the bottom of the spar?).
Also same question about Kaplers three piece wing plans showing 1/2" x 1/2"
spruce rib end braces going between the first two ribs. Is there one of eac=
h
of these or a top and bottom for each?
Thank you
Rick H
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: covering of root rib |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Douwe...
I didn't cover my root ribs of my center section. For some strange reason I did
cover the roots of the wing panels... then wound up cutting a lot of it away
for cables, inspection, etc. Can't see any real reason to cover them. Like
you say the root fairings cover anyway.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31936#31936
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood trailing edge attachment |
I used 1/16" Plywood Plates, 1/2" wide X about 2" long, the way it shows in
the plans, then feathered each end down so it didn't leave a bump. With the
fabric on, you have to look pretty close to see the plywood strips. After
pre-fitting everything, I used rubber bunji chords to hold the trailing edge in
place while the adhesive cured at the butt end of the ribs, and the plywood
strips. I used T88 epoxy throughout the airframe. No problems anywhere with the
adhesive, after almost 280 hrs flight time.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip brace question |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Rick,
If I remember correctly, I did one set at the tip and one top and one bottom at
the root of wings and center section. Helps to keep the fabric from pulling
in at the root.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31940#31940
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip brace question |
In a message dated 4/30/2006 9:35:03 PM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
Concerning the 1/2" x 1/2" spruce braces shown on the wing plans that extend=
from the wing tip diagonally to the front and rear spars, are there one of
each, (three total) or two of each (six total - wing tip to the top of the s=
par
and another below it to the bottom of the spar?).
On my one piece wing, I used one of each, for a total of three, at each wing=
tip. I didn't like the 45=BA butt joints. My buddy, Doug Bryant, had one o=
f
the ends at the spar break loose one time on his plane, so I added a Hard Ba=
lsa
corner blocks at the ends. The balsa was cross cut to expose the capilary
portion of the wood to the glue.
You can see how I did this, about half way down this page:
http://nx770cg.com/Wing.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: what holds up a project |
To avoid the stretching etc I had planned to fab a short section of cable w/
thimbles etc from the column horns about 1 ft long then attach the
turnbuckles. They would be within a comfortable reach for adjustments and safetying.
As I say, I HAD planned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | harvey rule <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: what holds up a project |
I was wondering what would be wrong ,if anything ,about putting the
turnbuckle at the other end where it connects to the control surface.It
would be outside the aircraft and probably not look as good but geeze it
would make life a lot simpler and you could inspect it a lot easier as
well.Now all my connections for the elevator are inside and behind the
seat and chances of a lock wire breaking and me seeing it are reduced
considerably.As far as drag is concerned,I hardly think it would make
that much difference.
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
> To avoid the stretching etc I had planned to fab a short section of
> cable w/ thimbles etc from the column horns about 1 ft long then
> attach the turnbuckles. They would be within a comfortable reach for
> adjustments and safetying. As I say, I HAD planned.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair Engine Cases |
| From: | "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com> |
Hi,
I have a question regarding Corvair engine cases. I have two stock
engines. I have a "RH" at 110 hp and a "RG" at 95 hp engine. Do you
guys know if the cases are the same=3F Do the heads distinguish the horse
power or is the case also a factor=3F The reason I'm asking is that I
would like to use the best of the two cases if they are the same. I
realize I need to use the heads from the "RH" engine if I want the
desired 110 hp. I have the conversion manual and I don't find specific
information on this subject in it. This is planned to go in my Piet
project, so I thought some of you guys may know the answer to this.
Thank you for other recent help too.
John
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contai=
n=
privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from
disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please
inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any
printed copy. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Dallas" <bec176(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Engine Cases |
The cases are the same as long as they are both 164 cu in
Jim Dallas
>From: "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Engine Cases
>Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 09:19:21 -0500
>
>Hi,
>
>
>I have a question regarding Corvair engine cases. I have two stock
>engines. I have a "RH" at 110 hp and a "RG" at 95 hp engine. Do you
>guys know if the cases are the same? Do the heads distinguish the horse
>power or is the case also a factor? The reason I'm asking is that I
>would like to use the best of the two cases if they are the same. I
>realize I need to use the heads from the "RH" engine if I want the
>desired 110 hp. I have the conversion manual and I don't find specific
>information on this subject in it. This is planned to go in my Piet
>project, so I thought some of you guys may know the answer to this.
>
>
>Thank you for other recent help too.
>
>
>John
>
>
>This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may
>contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt
>from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error,
>please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and
>destroy any printed copy. Thank you.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine Cases |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
John,
Both are '65 cases and the same, the camshaft and head make the HP
difference.
Cases prior to '65 are slightly different
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip brace question |
Thanks Chuck, I agree that just gluing the end of a 1/2 x 1/2 to the side o=
f
the spar seems a bit weak. I will add a corner block to butt the brace to.
Rick
On 4/30/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/30/2006 9:35:03 PM Central Standard Time,
> at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
>
> Concerning the 1/2" x 1/2" spruce braces shown on the wing plans that
> extend from the wing tip diagonally to the front and rear spars, are ther=
e
> one of each, (three total) or two of each (six total - wing tip to the to=
p
> of the spar and another below it to the bottom of the spar?).
>
> On my one piece wing, I used one of each, for a total of three, at each
> wing tip. I didn't like the 45=BA butt joints. My buddy, Doug Bryant, h=
ad
> one of the ends at the spar break loose one time on his plane, so I added=
a
> Hard Balsa corner blocks at the ends. The balsa was cross cut to expose
the
> capilary portion of the wood to the glue.
> You can see how I did this, about half way down this page:
> http://nx770cg.com/Wing.html
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip brace question |
Use a horseshoe-shaped piece of 1/4" plywood glued to the spar face and
position the end of the 1/2" x 1/2" brace in the 1/2" x 1/2" opening of
the "horseshoe".
This setup captures the brace and the relatively-large glued surface
against the spar face provides lots of shear strength. It has worked
fine on my Pietenpol for nearly 36 years.
A simple butt joint will not work, against the spar face or against the
inside of the tip bow, where extra glued area will be needed to hold the
brace in position against fabric tension.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip brace question |
Good idea Graham, thank you, would the ply horseshoe idea also apply to the
3/4" x 3/4" compression struts between the spars?
Rick H.
On 5/1/06, Graham Hansen <grhans@cable-lynx.net> wrote:
>
> Use a horseshoe-shaped piece of 1/4" plywood glued to the spar face and
> position the end of the 1/2" x 1/2" brace in the 1/2" x 1/2" opening of t=
he
> "horseshoe".
>
> This setup captures the brace and the relatively-large glued surface
> against the spar face provides lots of shear strength. It has worked fine=
on
> my Pietenpol for nearly 36 years.
>
> A simple butt joint will not work, against the spar face or against the
> inside of the tip bow, where extra glued area will be needed to hold the
> brace in position against fabric tension.
>
> Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing tip brace question |
Rick H.,
I didn't use the "horseshoe" plates on the 3/4"x 3/4" compression struts
on my Pietenpol, but they could be employed there to help hold the
struts in position. I used the triangular (sort of) gussets as shown in
the plans and they seem to be satisfactory for this purpose.
If you wish, I can send you (off list) a photo showing my Pietenpol
under construction with a view of the compression struts, etc. It is a
black and white photo and was taken, in 1969, by a friend who was the
co-builder of a Pietenpol in 1931 (when he was only 16 and the other guy
was just 17!).
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tailskid Tailwheel |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Guys...
This is my tailwheel that Chris was asking about. I thought I'd post a picture.
It is basically just a wheel added to the plans skid. The wheel is a 4" unit
from Wick's. The fork is welded up and has a vertical steel tube bushing into
which an AN8 bolt is pressed (1/2" bolt). This is the vertical shaft of the
fork. A welded up 'T' tops it off which is connected to the rudder cables.
An AN3 bolt goes through the AN8 bolt in the fork and in the 'T' to lock everything
together. The shaft of the fork fits into a bushed tube that is weled
to the A-frame. Plates are welded top and bottom of that. The spring is from
a fork tube from the front of a wrecked motorcycle. $2.00 from the local junkyard.
It started out about 2' long and had to be cut down. The cables connect
to the rudder cables under the seat with #10 electrical wire connectors.
The tubes tend to want to twist when turning left or right so I plan to help that
by welding a cross piece near where the tubes meet the fuselage. It probably
isn't the best idea out there, but seems to be working for now and is fairly
light in weight.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32199#32199
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0381_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Turnbuckles - what holds up a project |
In a message dated 5/1/2006 6:01:52 AM Central Standard Time,
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca writes:
Actually if I had built this plane from scratch I would have put the
turnbuckles at the other end where they would be outside the fusy and easier to
get
at.Any comments on this?
I have two turnbuckles on the rudder horn, and four turnbuckles at the
Flipper horns. Like you said, easy to get to, adjust, and inspect. Eventually,
I'm
going to change out the rudder cables, and instead of turnbuckles, I'm going
to use two straps made from .060" 4130, which will be about 7/16" X 1
1/2"...similar to motorcycle master links. I have a local shop that will shear
4130
for me. I can make a dozen of these things for the price of a single
turnbuckle, and vary the length between the holes of each pair by a few thousandths
of
an inch, then find the ones that take the slack out of the cables. List the
length on the part, and keep the rest for future adjustment requirements. I'll
use #10 AN bolts, with locking castle nuts. I'll place them at the rudder
bar, instead of back at the horn, to save a little weight on the tail. I
haven't used this method yet, but I don't see any reason why they couldn't replace
all the turnbuckles in the control system, because None of the control surface
cables on the Pietenpol should be tight...just take the slack out, and that's
it. Before doing this, It would be interesting to compare the tensile
strength of these straps, with that of a turnbuckle.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Here is another shot. After looking at the picture I realize I see Frank Pavliga's
Piet in the background. He has the original tailskid. Those tail skid guys
are a special breed! About 23 years and who knows how many hours on that
thing!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32207#32207
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0380_596.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
In a message dated 5/1/2006 9:50:12 PM Central Standard Time, EmchAir(at)aol.com
writes:
Hi Guys...
This is my tailwheel that Chris was asking about. I thought I'd post a
picture. It is basically just a wheel added to the plans skid. The wheel is a
4"
unit from Wick's. The fork is welded up and has a vertical steel tube bushing
into which an AN8 bolt is pressed (1/2" bolt). This is the vertical shaft of
the fork. A welded up 'T' tops it off which is connected to the rudder
cables. An AN3 bolt goes through the AN8 bolt in the fork and in the 'T' to lock
everything together. The shaft of the fork fits into a bushed tube that is
weled to the A-frame. Plates are welded top and bottom of that. The spring is
from a fork tube from the front of a wrecked motorcycle. $2.00 from the local
junkyard. It started out about 2' long and had to be cut down. The cables
connect to the rudder cables under the seat with #10 electrical wire connectors.
The tubes tend to want to twist when turning left or right so I plan to help
that by welding a cross piece near where the tubes me!
et the fuselage. It probably isn't the best idea out there, but seems to be
working for now and is fairly light in weight.
Don Emch
I also added a tailwheel to the plans type tailskid, after about 35 hours of
operation. When making changes, Nothing is free, everything is a tradeoff.
In this area, the tradeoff is the deck angle (static laden) of the three point
attitude. With the skid, the tail was lower, and I was able to do full stall
landings much easier than now. With the wheel back there, the tail is higher,
and at 3 point touchdown attitude she hasn't yet reached the 'Critical Angle
of Attack', and the wing is not yet done flying, and a bounce sometimes
occurs. This is the reason I located the tail wheel Behind the skid plate, as
opposed to under it - to get the tail as low as possible. On the grass, 3 out
of 4
landings are greasers when I touch tail first, but Every time I have tried
full stall on the hard surface, she bounces, even when I touch tail first. For
this reason, I have to wheel it on the hard surface, and put up with the long
roll out. I much prefer full stall landings. Those few seconds during
touchdown are the juiciest part of the flight for me !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
with little pieces of toilet paper hanging all over the plane !! he he he !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Regarding Chuck's comment about a lower deck angle (with higher tail
wheel) making full stall landings difficult...Has anyone raised the main
gear to help with the problem?
Jack Textor
Here is another shot. After looking at the picture I realize I see
Frank Pavliga's Piet in the background. He has the original tailskid.
Those tail skid guys are a special breed! About 23 years and who knows
how many hours on that thing!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32207#32207
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0380_596.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Model-A cylinder head |
I bought the Dan Price dual ignition head and it is presently in the
hands of Ken Perkins for machining of a little relief over the pistons.
I'm ready to get sparkplugs for it, but which ones? This head uses 14mm
plugs. I'd very much like to hear from others with this head to
determine which plugs they're using. I'm especially curious about
"reach" and "heat range". Comments anyone?...Thanks....Carl Vought
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Carl,
Forgive me for losing your identity.
Received news yesterday that out mutual friend Leon LeSueur passed away
Sunday.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
My deck angle is already a little high, I think around 15 or 16 degrees, but not
sure I'd have to measure again. The plans split axle gear is taller than the
wood straight axle gear. The wood gear usually is used with the spoke wheels.
I decided to used the spoke wheels on the split axle gear. So... this makes
it kinda tall. I've seen Piets go from one extreme to the other in the deck
angle. I seem to get close to full stall 3-points. Just another area where
little changes lead to unique airplanes!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32386#32386
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
In a message dated 5/2/2006 5:50:29 AM Central Standard Time,
jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com writes:
Has anyone raised the main
gear to help with the problem?
That's just what Don E., and others, did with the wire wheels. I have the
8.00 - 6 tires, making it a lower deck angle of about 11 degrees. I don't
really see it as a problem, just more of a challenge to get a full stall landing
-
and on the plus side, I can step right in, without damaging the family
jewels...
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I envy you there Chuck! It is a long step into the cockpit. Interesting what
you said about the difference between grass and pavement. I haven't landed on
pavement yet, but am thinking about it soon. There is a strip not too far away
that has both. I thought about landing on the grass and taking off on the
pavement to start with. Curious how those high pressure spoke wheels will do.
Mike, Walt, Jack or anyone else running them have much to say about the difference
between grass and pavement?
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32438#32438
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interesting trim |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Guys...
I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying. Others I'm
sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch trim. I have
a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere around 8 gallons
it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I let go of the stick and
leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned forward it slowly pitches down.
I know it only makes sense but I don't think I've ever flown anything that
is so easily affected by weight movement!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32441#32441
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Interesting trim |
Hi Guys
Saw this tab on a Minimax site. Looks like it is pretty small and thin.
Food for thought.
Best regards
Steve G
>From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 18:43:17 -0700
>
>
>Hi Guys...
>I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying. Others
>I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch trim.
>I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere around 8
>gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I let go of
>the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned forward it
>slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't think I've
>ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight movement!
>Don Emch
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32441#32441
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Pavement gets interesting. Not too bad, but it accentuates any errors.
Grass is much more forgiving. I try to land mine on pavement every now
and then just to uncover any bad habits I might have picked up landing
on grass.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailskid Tailwheel
I envy you there Chuck! It is a long step into the cockpit.
Interesting what you said about the difference between grass and
pavement. I haven't landed on pavement yet, but am thinking about it
soon. There is a strip not too far away that has both. I thought about
landing on the grass and taking off on the pavement to start with.
Curious how those high pressure spoke wheels will do. Mike, Walt, Jack
or anyone else running them have much to say about the difference
between grass and pavement?
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32438#32438
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken <av8orken(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
That works in C150, C152, and C172.
Don Emch wrote:
>
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying. Others I'm
sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch trim. I have
a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere around 8 gallons
it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I let go of the stick
and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned forward it slowly pitches
down. I know it only makes sense but I don't think I've ever flown anything that
is so easily affected by weight movement!
> Don Emch
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32441#32441
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
So what if you made a really narrow tab running the entire
width of the elevator with hinges and horn mounted unobtrusively
underneath. Thus eliminating that "afterthought" look.
Or make the same thing out of wood as a part of the trailing edge
during the construction of the elevator.
Clif
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
> Hi Guys
> Saw this tab on a Minimax site. Looks like it is pretty small and thin.
> Food for thought.
>
> Best regards
> Steve G
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
I've been told you can do the same sticking your
arms out. :-)
And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
Clif
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch
> trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> movement!
> Don Emch
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | pavement vs. grass |
Don-- I'd have to concur with Jack Phillips in that pavement landings are
somewhat more challenging in the
fact that you get faster response directionally. Nothing dramatic, but it
makes you concentrate more on being
in good alignment on touchdown. To me, using the right tire pressure for
pavement can make a difference in wether
I rebound into the air or if she 'sticks' but then again that factor is
based on how hard you hit as well:)
I had no real concerns as the straight axle gear leaves no room for wheel
castor and camber errors as does the kind of
gear you built. If your gear is true, and more importantly each wheel
tracking true to the other, you should find pavement
pretty much a non event.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interesting trim |
| From: | "Sayre, William G" <william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com> |
If I let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I
leaned forward it slowly pitches down.
-------------------------------
Don,
Try holding your arms out. Both to a side to turn, both above to climb
and one down on each side of the cockpit to lower the nose. The
Pietenpol is the most fun plane!
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pavement vs. grass |
I'd like to add one item to Mike's post. I try to avoid the seams in the
runway if possible. I've landed on a couple where the joint in concrete has
caught on the tailwheel. Also I have found carrying 1100 rpm all the way
down makes a bounce less likely or a sudden flop onto the runway in the full
stall landing.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael D Cuy" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: pavement vs. grass
>
>
> Don-- I'd have to concur with Jack Phillips in that pavement landings are
> somewhat more challenging in the
>
> fact that you get faster response directionally. Nothing dramatic, but it
> makes you concentrate more on being
>
> in good alignment on touchdown. To me, using the right tire pressure
> for pavement can make a difference in wether
>
> I rebound into the air or if she 'sticks' but then again that factor is
> based on how hard you hit as well:)
>
> I had no real concerns as the straight axle gear leaves no room for wheel
> castor and camber errors as does the kind of
>
> gear you built. If your gear is true, and more importantly each wheel
> tracking true to the other, you should find pavement
>
> pretty much a non event.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
Clif,
The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of urine stored
inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical calculations, you can determine
the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid water to arrive at
a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from 6.6033 to determine the correct
amount of ballast within the bladder. In the sagittal plane you need to calculate
the arm for weight and balance to find a starting point of adjusted movement
of weight relative to center of gravity in the aircraft and the human
body. Then and only then can you get the true accurate number of forward weight
deflection within the cabin of a pilot who has to pee......
Ken
Clif Dawson wrote:
I've been told you can do the same sticking your
arms out. :-)
And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
Clif
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch
> trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> movement!
> Don Emch
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
Hi Ken
Perhaps you hit on something. Yachts are using active trim tanks usually
side to side to reduce heel. Perhaps you could install a small soda bottle
fore and aft with a a manual trim pump in the cockpit. Putting the tank as
far aft as possible would give you a good amount of moment. You could even
have a third port in the cockpit so you could have a little drink while
flying along. It could be a problem in the winter with freeze up but I'm
sure some suitable ducting could be worked out.
Could call it the wet trim system. Thinking more about it the weight
penalty is not good perhaps Helium ballons stuffed in each end with a
transfer.............................
Steve G
>From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Clif,
>
> The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of urine
>stored inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical calculations,
>you can determine the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid water
>to arrive at a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from 6.6033 to
>determine the correct amount of ballast within the bladder. In the sagittal
>plane you need to calculate the arm for weight and balance to find a
>starting point of adjusted movement of weight relative to center of gravity
>in the aircraft and the human body. Then and only then can you get the true
>accurate number of forward weight deflection within the cabin of a pilot
>who has to pee......
>
> Ken
>
>Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>I've been told you can do the same sticking your
>arms out. :-)
>
>And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
>As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
>needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
>destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
>
>How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
>
>Clif
>
>
> > Hi Guys...
> > I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> > Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of
>pitch
> > trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> > around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> > let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> > forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> > think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> > movement!
> > Don Emch
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
Don,
I used to mess with the trim on a Cessna. Trim it perfectly, then lean
forard and put your hands over the inst. panel. Down you go. same with
leaning back in the seat with hands over head. Up you go.
Here's something that I've tried, and not too many had heard of it.....Trim
out a plane at a certain alt. Say 1000 ft. Now don't touch the trim, but
pull up and climb to 2000 ft. Let go of the stick/wheel, and it will
slightly nose down and slowly lose altitude. The rate of decent will slowly
diminish, and it will settle back exactly at 1000 ft. So the trim will be
different on any day for any density altitude.
Neat trick.
Also flew my old Fisher 404 from a nearby airport back to my home airport
(about 15 mi) hands off, just sticking my fingertips out each side of the
windshield, as needed, to turn and correct heading. Try it,, it's fun
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>
> Hi Guys...
> I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of pitch
> trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
> around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If I
> let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
> forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
> think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> movement!
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32441#32441
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
In a message dated 5/3/2006 7:43:02 AM Central Standard Time,
william.g.sayre(at)boeing.com writes:
Try holding your arms out. Both to a side to turn, both above to climb
and one down on each side of the cockpit to lower the nose.
Yeah, but I fly in the Kansas wind & thermals...if I tried this method, it
would look like I was in the middle of a swarm of killer bees !! :)
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailskid Tailwheel |
Don,
Yeah, it seems that when you land on grass, it's both the grass and you
that interact for the landing. But on pavement, it's all yours.
Just go to the airport on some evening where there are no spectators.
Spectators ruin the concintration
I've found that when landing the Pietenpol, to give a little power (about
1000 rpm) at or before the time of the flare, so you don't get the drop.
I had to get over the fear of the end of the runway comming up. Thought
about it all the time, and that ruled the landing. but when I was aware of
it,,,every time I landed, I'd see what runway was left. There was always
plenty. So then I was forcing myself to not worry about the runway left, and
about the quality of the landing. Now at the flare, time slows down, and
with some power on, I feel, feel, feel, for the grass. they are alot better
this year.
I like the comment that the only difference between a grass landing and
pavement landing,,,,,is that on pavement, you have to spit out your gum
first.
Talked to the owner of a parachute jump school about this. I'm 58 so he
seemed to be a kid. But he owns a Cessna Caravan, Super Otter, and a
Cessna 182.
His advice was that you need 100 hours in a plane to be comfortable in it.
Good advice!
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailskid Tailwheel
>
> I envy you there Chuck! It is a long step into the cockpit. Interesting
> what you said about the difference between grass and pavement. I haven't
> landed on pavement yet, but am thinking about it soon. There is a strip
> not too far away that has both. I thought about landing on the grass and
> taking off on the pavement to start with. Curious how those high pressure
> spoke wheels will do. Mike, Walt, Jack or anyone else running them have
> much to say about the difference between grass and pavement?
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32438#32438
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
To all Corvair flyers:
This afternoon I visited an open house at a local FBO and float storage
business at Lake Hood here in Anchorage. I went specifically to find an
A&P
that had been identified as an EAA technical advisor who works there.
After asking him if he would be available to help me with my project he
said
"sometimes," and asked what kind of project I was working on? When I
told
him about the Pietenpol project, and that it came with a turbo-charged
Corvair engine, he immediately said, "I am not a fan of automotive
engines
in aircraft, those Pientenpol builders seem to like them, but then again
they are flying over farms and fields, and up here we don't have any of
those, so if your engine quits..My advice to you is to get a 0-200 or an
85
horse engine for $15-16,000 and forget about the Corvair.
My question is how many of you using Corvair engines have encountered
mechanical or carb ice problems while flying with this type of engine,
and
been forced to land as a result of either?
Don't worry, I am not easily intimidated, and will forge on despite this
type of blatant opinion.
Rob Stapleton
Birchwood, Alaska
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Interesting trim |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Gliders use water to control ballist.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Glass
Sent: May 3, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
Hi Ken
Perhaps you hit on something. Yachts are using active trim tanks
usually
side to side to reduce heel. Perhaps you could install a small soda
bottle
fore and aft with a a manual trim pump in the cockpit. Putting the tank
as
far aft as possible would give you a good amount of moment. You could
even
have a third port in the cockpit so you could have a little drink while
flying along. It could be a problem in the winter with freeze up but
I'm
sure some suitable ducting could be worked out.
Could call it the wet trim system. Thinking more about it the weight
penalty is not good perhaps Helium ballons stuffed in each end with a
transfer.............................
Steve G
>From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Clif,
>
> The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of
urine
>stored inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical
calculations,
>you can determine the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid
water
>to arrive at a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from 6.6033
to
>determine the correct amount of ballast within the bladder. In the
sagittal
>plane you need to calculate the arm for weight and balance to find a
>starting point of adjusted movement of weight relative to center of
gravity
>in the aircraft and the human body. Then and only then can you get the
true
>accurate number of forward weight deflection within the cabin of a
pilot
>who has to pee......
>
> Ken
>
>Clif Dawson wrote:
>
>I've been told you can do the same sticking your
>arms out. :-)
>
>And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
>As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
>needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
>destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
>
>How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
>
>Clif
>
>
> > Hi Guys...
> > I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
> > Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of
>pitch
> > trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While
somewhere
> > around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight.
If I
> > let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I
leaned
> > forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I
don't
> > think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
> > movement!
> > Don Emch
> >
>
>
>---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
I used to try that "Look Ma, no hands!" and "Watch this!" stuff on bicycles,
usually with bad results!
Anybody tried filling the tires with helium? Every little bit of lift helps,
right? : )
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
Got the same type of response from the ABDAR and various folks in my EAA chapter.
He didn't say he wouldn't do the maiden or assist in his capacity as Tech
Counselor but I also got a lot of "encouragement" to abandon the Corvair idea.
In fact I was encouraged to abandon the idea of building a Pietenpol which is
said is a "dangerous" plane. I think he is just looking out for me since the
Piet seems to require a little more skill than the average plane, and although
I'm building the plane, I am not a pilot. I'll be interested in seeing the
responses.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32727#32727
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
Here is another way of responding to your "Alaskan logic";
the difference between a Corvair engine a Continental or Lycoming is that those
"airplane" motors are wired together! Same cast metal, same iron, same steel
or aluminum, same bolts, except the "airplane" ones have holes in them!
Somewhere I heard, (it may have been some drunks around a campfire), "GM put more
man hours into engineering desgin of the Corvair motor for use in aircraft
engine than did Lycoming and Continental combined put into the design of their
engine"! Otherwise. there is no diffence, other than when those damn lawyers
get envolved.
yours truly, Mean Gene
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Stapleton <foto(at)alaska.net>
>Sent: May 4, 2006 1:37 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers
>
>To all Corvair flyers:
>
>
>
>This afternoon I visited an open house at a local FBO and float storage
>business at Lake Hood here in Anchorage. I went specifically to find an A&P
>that had been identified as an EAA technical advisor who works there.
>
>
>
>After asking him if he would be available to help me with my project he said
>"sometimes," and asked what kind of project I was working on? When I told
>him about the Pietenpol project, and that it came with a turbo-charged
>Corvair engine, he immediately said, "I am not a fan of automotive engines
>in aircraft, those Pientenpol builders seem to like them, but then again
>they are flying over farms and fields, and up here we don't have any of
>those, so if your engine quits..My advice to you is to get a 0-200 or an 85
>horse engine for $15-16,000 and forget about the Corvair.
>
>
>
>My question is how many of you using Corvair engines have encountered
>mechanical or carb ice problems while flying with this type of engine, and
>been forced to land as a result of either?
>
>
>
>Don't worry, I am not easily intimidated, and will forge on despite this
>type of blatant opinion.
>
>
>
>Rob Stapleton
>
>Birchwood, Alaska
>
>
>
>
>
>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
Rob,
I fly a Corvair since late August of last year, I am still working away on
the 40 Hour test period, weather and work have been getting in the way.
A few hours in to the test phase I had a engine out and had to make a off
field landing, which was no problem as I had enough altitude to find a good
field.
No damage to the Airplane and a few experiences wiser.
The engine out was caused by a fuel starvation problem.
I used a 11 gallon wing tank and a 2 gallon header tank, the 2 gallon tank
was empty when I landed. ( could hear the fuel flowing back in when I was
on the ground)
The original system had a ventilation line on the 2 gallon header tank to
avoid air in this tank.
However in flight this vent would create a pressure on the header tank that
stop all fuel from the main tank.
The vent cap of the main tank is also in a low pressure area on the wing,
which contributed to the problem.
I made some fix with a check valve on the header tank vent line ( air
allowed out but not in) and re-arranged the vent line to avoid excess
pressure.
I flew another 4-5 hours this way but was never comfortable with it.
A 2 gallon header tank gives you about 25 minutes of airtime at which time
you get the urge to land.
I finally removed the 2 gallon header tank and replaced it with Piper J3
tank in the nose (12.5 Gallons) it shifted my CG forward which I
compensated with changing my exhaust system ( changed the cast iron
manifolds for a much lighter header system)
Been flying with that setup for more than 20 hours now and have had no
problems.
My Corvair is a '65 , 110HP Corvair conversion as per William Wynne manual.
It is a very smooth and powerful engine, I would rate its reliability as
very high, very close to a Continental.
If it had dual spark plugs it would be an equal.
Still fly with a non nitrated Crankshaft too, although I have a spare one
that is being nitrated.
If I had a O-200, C90/85 I would have used it,only because you do not have
to deal with a 40 Test phase (25 hours if you have a aircraft engine)
Of course there is money issue as well, total expense on my Corvair was
6,000- US with all moving parts to new specs, I did not cut any corners on
rebuilding the engine. (the crank in hindsight being the exception)
Furthermore I believe two more Pietenpols had to make a forced landing last
year, both Continental powered, go figure..
It is very rarely the engine that causes a problem it is most likely the
systems around it that fail.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Guys
I was wondering if anybody has done any studies on engine out causes. We
all hear the horror stories of cranks breaking but I bet that 90% of the
time an engine stops. It is out of fuel for one reason or another.
Aircraft or auto no fuel no go.
Does anybody know of any hard data out there?
Steve G
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Problems |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
Steve
NTSB has done this accross all aircraft (www.ntsb.gov)
The Fuel system is one of the main reasons for engine out causes.
Hans
"Steve Glass"
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: Fuel Problems
05/04/2006 08:36
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Hi Guys
I was wondering if anybody has done any studies on engine out causes. We
all hear the horror stories of cranks breaking but I bet that 90% of the
time an engine stops. It is out of fuel for one reason or another.
Aircraft or auto no fuel no go.
Does anybody know of any hard data out there?
Steve G
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers - long reply |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair Flyers - long reply |
Good reply.
Yes, I have read Wynne's website info and the story by an obvious
follower
of his, also a journalist.
My thinking is, if carb ice is a problem with this engine, then what has
been done to thwart it. Wynne makes reference to a joint carb heat
device
that as you throttle back applies carb heat. I talked with a guy who up
here
who ran the Corvair in VW buses, and he said they are "very" prone to
icing
up and also uses them in air boats and more than once has seen ice build
up
on them, and even wrapped the manifold with asbestos cloth to help the
problem.
What kind of baffling and other devices have been tried, and is there a
correlation to the size of the intake manifold and carb set-up that
contributes to this problem?
I sent Wynne this question, and have not heard back from him yet.
RS
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers - long reply
In the summer of 2001, William Wynne, 'the Corvair Authority'
(http://www.flycorvair.com/) himself, had an engine failure in his own
Pietenpol. Note that according to the online aviation databases, William
holds an A&P but no pilot ratings. There were two in the aircraft and
the
other guy was officially the pilot. The plane went down and caught fire,
severely burning William. The investigation attributes the accident to
carbuteror ice. There's a write-up about the incident on his web site,
or
you can find the accident report on the NTSB web site.
In the last 20 years or so, the definition of 'experimental' has become
skewed to mean "a reliable airplane based on somebody else's kit or
plans".
Because of the proliferation of available kits, plans, engines, etc,
this
has become an expectation with homebuilders. At the end of the day, YOU
ARE
THE MANUFACTURER. Years back, I had a casual conversation at Sun 'n Fun
with
Bob Barrows, the guy who engineered and sells plans for the Bearhawk,
about
his take on liability. Bob's response was "Here's what I did, and
anybody
who wants to attempt to try what I did is welcome'. This approach
absolves
the experimental suppliers from liability, which in turn allows these
airplanes to be built at minimal expense. I'm not a lawyer, I've never
sued
anybody for anything, and I despise inappropriate (my definition /
opinion)
lawsuits. My concern regarding liability isn't about my ability to sue
somebody; it's about my expectation that anybody who engineers something
and
sells it should have enough pride in it to stand behind their work. On
the
flip side, that also means me, as the manufacturer of my homebuilt.
When I bought William's manual back in the mid-late 90's, he had me sign
a
liability waiver before he would give it to me (Does he still do this?).
In
this litigous society, I can't blame William for consulting with his
lawyer
first (In fact I think it was smart) before selling manuals, but it
didn't
instill a lot of confidence in me. I thought (and still do) it was
strange,
having never had to sign a waiver for anything when I bought airplane
stuff
before, but it certainly rams home the 'YOU are the manufacturer'
concept.
It also blatantly reinstates the classical definition of 'experimental'
with
respect to aircraft. Think about it.
I've seen scant few quality (my definition, sorry) Corvair installations
in
aircraft, but they also involved tons of work and skill; way beyond a
normal
engine rebuild and install. I suspect a good lot of the current crop of
Corvair folks are relying too heavily on William's work without
verifying
all the information for themselves, based on the volumes of 'William
says',
I hear at Sun 'n Fun every year and see on this forum, and some of the
shortcuts I've heard people are attempting. You are the manufacturer. Do
the
work. If you don't know how, get help until you know everything about
your
specific engine in your specific airplane. But please don't shortcut the
process because it's cheaper, either in money or in time.
Lots of folks would like to own an airplane for minimal or zero cost,
which
is really what this is about. If you could get a good A-65 for the price
of
a Corvair engine, would you really consider the Corvair? I have an
expectation that quality, reliable stuff is not going to be free, so I
expect to have to spend enough time, brainpower, and money to put a
reliable
airplane in the air. If somebody at the airport said "I just finished
this
plane and I only spent $400 for the whole thing", would you get in it
and go
for a ride with him? I'd be too busy looking for old gate hinges,
lawnmower
control cables, used dental floss and house paint. I'm not a
motorcyclist,
but a long time ago Bell had a one-liner ad for their helmets which
stuck
with me that said "If you've got a ten-dollar head, buy a ten-dollar
helmet". Not this boy.
Don't get me wrong; I do like Corvairs and I've owned many (3 right now)
since the late 70's. And I do my own work on them. You guys can wax
poetic
all you want about Corvair engines in aircraft, the Corvair 'Authority',
and
Corvair Colleges, and hopefully time will prove me wrong (sincerely).
But in
the interim and until the kinks are worked out, I choose to not be one
of
the lab rats in this 'experiment'.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Stapleton
Sent: May 4, 2006 2:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers
To all Corvair flyers:
This afternoon I visited an open house at a local FBO and float storage
business at Lake Hood here in Anchorage. I went specifically to find an
A&P
that had been identified as an EAA technical advisor who works there.
After asking him if he would be available to help me with my project he
said
"sometimes," and asked what kind of project I was working on? When I
told
him about the Pietenpol project, and that it came with a turbo-charged
Corvair engine, he immediately said, "I am not a fan of automotive
engines
in aircraft, those Pientenpol builders seem to like them, but then again
they are flying over farms and fields, and up here we don't have any of
those, so if your engine quits..My advice to you is to get a 0-200 or an
85
horse engine for $15-16,000 and forget about the Corvair.
My question is how many of you using Corvair engines have encountered
mechanical or carb ice problems while flying with this type of engine,
and
been forced to land as a result of either?
Don't worry, I am not easily intimidated, and will forge on despite this
type of blatant opinion.
Rob Stapleton
Birchwood, Alaska
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
such
Chat,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
List
List
-Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair Flyers - long reply |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
Rob,
Not my text, I just cut and pasted this from a website:
------As the aircraft carburetor vaporizes fuel, it cools the intake air by
evaporation. The carburetor venturi also cools the air by adiabatically
expanding the intake air, known as the Joule-Thomson Effect. If the air
temperature drops below the dew point, moisture in the air condenses into
water droplets. Thus, water can be present in the carburetor even when
flying in clear skies.
Ice forms near the aircraft carburetor butterfly when water droplets
strike parts of the carburetor (typically the butterfly and venturi) that
are freezing. Freezing is determined by: the outside air temperature, the
temperature drop, and heat absorption from the engine. With the throttle
partly closed, such as in a low power descent, you may have a 10" Hg or
more pressure drop across the throttle butterfly.
The more gasoline the carburetor evaporates, the colder the carburetor. As
your engine idles at the end of the runway, little fuel is evaporating and
the carburetor's temperature may be above freezing. Adding takeoff power
increases the rate of fuel evaporation. Now the carburetor may be cold
enough to form carburetor ice. Your carburetor can get pretty cold. The
heat loss from evaporation of gasoline at the stoichiometric ratio creates
a theoretical temperature drop of 40 degrees F. The adiabatic expansion of
gas across the carburetor's venturi also lowers the temperature. Thus, you
could drop the carburetor temperature to freezing and form carburetor ice
at an ambient temperature of 72 degrees or higher. Stoichiometric is the
leanest possible mixture. At richer mixtures the ambient temperature at
which carburetor ice forms is even higher - Lycoming publishes a
temperature range of twenty to 90 degrees F. for carburetor ice.
Adding alcohol to gasoline dramatically increases the ambient temperature
where ice forms. Evaporating methyl alcohol creates a temperature drop of
300 degrees F. As a result, carburetor ice occurs over a wide range of
temperatures.
Your Continental aircraft engine forms carburetor ice at a higher outside
air temperature than your Lycoming engine since the carburetor on a
Continental engine absorbs less engine heat. Continental mounts the
carburetor to the intake pipes away from engine heat. Lycoming mounts the
carburetor to the oil pan where it absorbs heat from the engine oil. One
side effect of forming carburetor ice at a higher air temperature is that
the warm air holds more moisture than cold air; therefore, you have a
potential for greater carburetor icing with Continental engines than with
Lycoming engines ------
The Corvair WW setup is very similar to a Continental engine and carb heat
must be applied!
During test running of my Corvair on a test stand I could measure (and see
and feel ) the cooling effect right behind the carburetor.
It gets cold ! ...very cold at part throttle, the high humidity will cause
the outside of the intake manifold to get wet (water droplets) image what
happens on the inside.
I copied the setup that Mark Langford uses on his Corvair see
>>http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/airbox/
Not his air box but only his heat pick up around the exhaust manifold.
My exhaust manifold is however not stainless steel (stainless steel is poor
conductor of heat) I used plain carbon steel and painted it black (maximum
heat rejection).
This works very well, the recommended 90 F temperature rise is easily
achieved.
The hot air is robbing a lot of HP, In flight I can feel the extra few
RPM/HP kick-in when I remove Carb heat.
Carb heat is not a problem in summer months in the Houston Texas area, as
temperatures are 90 - 100 degree but rest of the year the temperatures are
varying between 60 to 80 F and humidity is high year round.
I fly with carb heat on constantly, only during take off and taxing on the
ground I use cold filtered air.
Right before take off, during the run up I apply carb heat for about 1
minute with engine at 2500 RPM.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair Flyers - long reply |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
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--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers - long reply |
This sounds logical and the procedure you use is what I would have imagined. According
to this I would assume that you use carb heat during flight and especially
during throttle back rpm reductions!
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:25 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers - long reply
>
> Rob,
>
> Not my text, I just cut and pasted this from a website:
>
> ------As the aircraft carburetor vaporizes fuel, it cools the
> intake air by
> evaporation. The carburetor venturi also cools the air by
> adiabaticallyexpanding the intake air, known as the Joule-Thomson
> Effect. If the air
> temperature drops below the dew point, moisture in the air
> condenses into
> water droplets. Thus, water can be present in the carburetor even when
> flying in clear skies.
>
>
> Ice forms near the aircraft carburetor butterfly when water droplets
> strike parts of the carburetor (typically the butterfly and
> venturi) that
> are freezing. Freezing is determined by: the outside air
> temperature, the
> temperature drop, and heat absorption from the engine. With the
> throttlepartly closed, such as in a low power descent, you may have
> a 10" Hg or
> more pressure drop across the throttle butterfly.
>
>
> The more gasoline the carburetor evaporates, the colder the
> carburetor. As
> your engine idles at the end of the runway, little fuel is
> evaporating and
> the carburetor's temperature may be above freezing. Adding takeoff
> powerincreases the rate of fuel evaporation. Now the carburetor may
> be cold
> enough to form carburetor ice. Your carburetor can get pretty cold.
> Theheat loss from evaporation of gasoline at the stoichiometric
> ratio creates
> a theoretical temperature drop of 40 degrees F. The adiabatic
> expansion of
> gas across the carburetor's venturi also lowers the temperature.
> Thus, you
> could drop the carburetor temperature to freezing and form
> carburetor ice
> at an ambient temperature of 72 degrees or higher. Stoichiometric
> is the
> leanest possible mixture. At richer mixtures the ambient
> temperature at
> which carburetor ice forms is even higher - Lycoming publishes a
> temperature range of twenty to 90 degrees F. for carburetor ice.
>
>
> Adding alcohol to gasoline dramatically increases the ambient
> temperaturewhere ice forms. Evaporating methyl alcohol creates a
> temperature drop of
> 300 degrees F. As a result, carburetor ice occurs over a wide range of
> temperatures.
>
>
> Your Continental aircraft engine forms carburetor ice at a higher
> outsideair temperature than your Lycoming engine since the
> carburetor on a
> Continental engine absorbs less engine heat. Continental mounts the
> carburetor to the intake pipes away from engine heat. Lycoming
> mounts the
> carburetor to the oil pan where it absorbs heat from the engine
> oil. One
> side effect of forming carburetor ice at a higher air temperature
> is that
> the warm air holds more moisture than cold air; therefore, you have a
> potential for greater carburetor icing with Continental engines
> than with
> Lycoming engines ------
>
> The Corvair WW setup is very similar to a Continental engine and
> carb heat
> must be applied!
> During test running of my Corvair on a test stand I could measure
> (and see
> and feel ) the cooling effect right behind the carburetor.
> It gets cold ! ...very cold at part throttle, the high humidity
> will cause
> the outside of the intake manifold to get wet (water droplets)
> image what
> happens on the inside.
>
> I copied the setup that Mark Langford uses on his Corvair see
> >>http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/airbox/
> Not his air box but only his heat pick up around the exhaust manifold.
> My exhaust manifold is however not stainless steel (stainless steel
> is poor
> conductor of heat) I used plain carbon steel and painted it black
> (maximumheat rejection).
>
> This works very well, the recommended 90 F temperature rise is easily
> achieved.
> The hot air is robbing a lot of HP, In flight I can feel the extra few
> RPM/HP kick-in when I remove Carb heat.
>
> Carb heat is not a problem in summer months in the Houston Texas
> area, as
> temperatures are 90 - 100 degree but rest of the year the
> temperatures are
> varying between 60 to 80 F and humidity is high year round.
>
> I fly with carb heat on constantly, only during take off and taxing
> on the
> ground I use cold filtered air.
> Right before take off, during the run up I apply carb heat for
> about 1
> minute with engine at 2500 RPM.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russ Knaack <rknaack(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Wings and Wheels Fly-In on June 11th - Lansing, Illinois |
Hello,
I'm trying to reach Pietenpol folks to let them know about a wings & wheels fly-in event on June 11th at Lansing airport in Lansing, Illinois. I am with the (Ford) Model A Restorer's Club and we are working in conjunction with EAA Chapter 260 out of Lansing. We are, in part, celebrating the 80th anniversary of the historic Ford hangar at the airport, which was built by Henry Ford for his Tri-Motors. There is a good chance that we will have a Ford Tri-Motor at the event. There will also be other antique, modern, and experimental aircraft, as well as a large number of Ford Model A's (and some T's). There will be a pancake breakfast and lunch as well. It would be great to have at least one Pietenpol because of the obvious connection. Please visit www.jolietmarc.org (go to "Upcoming Events") for the full details, or feel free to contact me. Also, feel free to tell anyone else who may be interested (general public welcome).
Best Regards to All,
Russell Knaack, Model A Restorer's Club
Homer Glen, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Calling all TACO members! |
put your planes to good use!
I will be helping the Minuteman Project in the near future. Both with my
unmanned helicopters as well as my Grumman Cheetah.
I plan to fly the Cheetah down to the border during an organized Minuteman
field excercise and provide aerial recon for gound based units. I'm
guessing I'll cruise around at about 700-1200' AGL and maybe 80mph or so
looking for illegals for 2 or 3 hours at a time (yes I call them illegals!)
We'll also be trying out one of my new aerial video helicopters to try and
spot illegals. I had a major setback in that business in February but some
things have happened and we're going strong with a couple new helicopters
that aren't as failure prone.
so get your Piets (or whatever you can get your hand on) and help the
Minuteman Project by volunteering some time and gas money to help secure our
borders!!
DJ Vegh
(honorary TACO member & Corona drinker extrodinaire)
PS. yes I drink Corona but I only the drink the stuff that comes here
legally imported.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
A friend of mine installed a Corvair engine in his Christavia with
reduction drive.He flew for about two weeks and then the main bearing
gave out.He switched to Lycoming and has been happy ever since.He sold
the engine to a guy who knew how to manufacture bearings and was very
happy to get the engine.I have not heard how the new owner made out.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: May 4, 2006 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers
Rob,
I fly a Corvair since late August of last year, I am still working away
on
the 40 Hour test period, weather and work have been getting in the way.
A few hours in to the test phase I had a engine out and had to make a
off
field landing, which was no problem as I had enough altitude to find a
good
field.
No damage to the Airplane and a few experiences wiser.
The engine out was caused by a fuel starvation problem.
I used a 11 gallon wing tank and a 2 gallon header tank, the 2 gallon
tank
was empty when I landed. ( could hear the fuel flowing back in when I
was
on the ground)
The original system had a ventilation line on the 2 gallon header tank
to
avoid air in this tank.
However in flight this vent would create a pressure on the header tank
that
stop all fuel from the main tank.
The vent cap of the main tank is also in a low pressure area on the
wing,
which contributed to the problem.
I made some fix with a check valve on the header tank vent line ( air
allowed out but not in) and re-arranged the vent line to avoid excess
pressure.
I flew another 4-5 hours this way but was never comfortable with it.
A 2 gallon header tank gives you about 25 minutes of airtime at which
time
you get the urge to land.
I finally removed the 2 gallon header tank and replaced it with Piper J3
tank in the nose (12.5 Gallons) it shifted my CG forward which I
compensated with changing my exhaust system ( changed the cast iron
manifolds for a much lighter header system)
Been flying with that setup for more than 20 hours now and have had no
problems.
My Corvair is a '65 , 110HP Corvair conversion as per William Wynne
manual.
It is a very smooth and powerful engine, I would rate its reliability as
very high, very close to a Continental.
If it had dual spark plugs it would be an equal.
Still fly with a non nitrated Crankshaft too, although I have a spare
one
that is being nitrated.
If I had a O-200, C90/85 I would have used it,only because you do not
have
to deal with a 40 Test phase (25 hours if you have a aircraft engine)
Of course there is money issue as well, total expense on my Corvair was
6,000- US with all moving parts to new specs, I did not cut any corners
on
rebuilding the engine. (the crank in hindsight being the exception)
Furthermore I believe two more Pietenpols had to make a forced landing
last
year, both Continental powered, go figure..
It is very rarely the engine that causes a problem it is most likely the
systems around it that fail.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
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HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> |
Hey all,
I was spending some time last night drafting out my fuse sides and ran into an
area that needs some clarification. The dimensions for the pilots seat back (22"
long) and the seat front (6" high) end up making a seat that just doesn't
"look" right. The rear seat support ends up very close to the bottom of the fuse
and the angle between the seat bottom and seat back is about 84 Deg. Does
this sound about right? or what have others done in this area? It would be easy
to raise the rear support an inch and add a wedge to the seat back to give
the seat a more "normal" look... Looks like it is time to build a mock-up and
sit it in front of the TV for a while to see what is comfortable.
Dan L.
Fargo, ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvair Flyers - long reply |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Everybody I know of who flys up here only uses carb heat on the down wind,base
and final portion of the landing.Unless they are on a long trip, now and then
at intervals ,they will turn on carb heat to make sure the carb is clear.I know
of no one who flys with carb heat on all the time as this letter would suggest????????????????
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort
Sent: May 4, 2006 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers - long reply
Rob,
Not my text, I just cut and pasted this from a website:
------As the aircraft carburetor vaporizes fuel, it cools the intake air by
evaporation. The carburetor venturi also cools the air by adiabatically
expanding the intake air, known as the Joule-Thomson Effect. If the air
temperature drops below the dew point, moisture in the air condenses into
water droplets. Thus, water can be present in the carburetor even when
flying in clear skies.
Ice forms near the aircraft carburetor butterfly when water droplets
strike parts of the carburetor (typically the butterfly and venturi) that
are freezing. Freezing is determined by: the outside air temperature, the
temperature drop, and heat absorption from the engine. With the throttle
partly closed, such as in a low power descent, you may have a 10" Hg or
more pressure drop across the throttle butterfly.
The more gasoline the carburetor evaporates, the colder the carburetor. As
your engine idles at the end of the runway, little fuel is evaporating and
the carburetor's temperature may be above freezing. Adding takeoff power
increases the rate of fuel evaporation. Now the carburetor may be cold
enough to form carburetor ice. Your carburetor can get pretty cold. The
heat loss from evaporation of gasoline at the stoichiometric ratio creates
a theoretical temperature drop of 40 degrees F. The adiabatic expansion of
gas across the carburetor's venturi also lowers the temperature. Thus, you
could drop the carburetor temperature to freezing and form carburetor ice
at an ambient temperature of 72 degrees or higher. Stoichiometric is the
leanest possible mixture. At richer mixtures the ambient temperature at
which carburetor ice forms is even higher - Lycoming publishes a
temperature range of twenty to 90 degrees F. for carburetor ice.
Adding alcohol to gasoline dramatically increases the ambient temperature
where ice forms. Evaporating methyl alcohol creates a temperature drop of
300 degrees F. As a result, carburetor ice occurs over a wide range of
temperatures.
Your Continental aircraft engine forms carburetor ice at a higher outside
air temperature than your Lycoming engine since the carburetor on a
Continental engine absorbs less engine heat. Continental mounts the
carburetor to the intake pipes away from engine heat. Lycoming mounts the
carburetor to the oil pan where it absorbs heat from the engine oil. One
side effect of forming carburetor ice at a higher air temperature is that
the warm air holds more moisture than cold air; therefore, you have a
potential for greater carburetor icing with Continental engines than with
Lycoming engines ------
The Corvair WW setup is very similar to a Continental engine and carb heat
must be applied!
During test running of my Corvair on a test stand I could measure (and see
and feel ) the cooling effect right behind the carburetor.
It gets cold ! ...very cold at part throttle, the high humidity will cause
the outside of the intake manifold to get wet (water droplets) image what
happens on the inside.
I copied the setup that Mark Langford uses on his Corvair see
>>http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/airbox/
Not his air box but only his heat pick up around the exhaust manifold.
My exhaust manifold is however not stainless steel (stainless steel is poor
conductor of heat) I used plain carbon steel and painted it black (maximum
heat rejection).
This works very well, the recommended 90 F temperature rise is easily
achieved.
The hot air is robbing a lot of HP, In flight I can feel the extra few
RPM/HP kick-in when I remove Carb heat.
Carb heat is not a problem in summer months in the Houston Texas area, as
temperatures are 90 - 100 degree but rest of the year the temperatures are
varying between 60 to 80 F and humidity is high year round.
I fly with carb heat on constantly, only during take off and taxing on the
ground I use cold filtered air.
Right before take off, during the run up I apply carb heat for about 1
minute with engine at 2500 RPM.
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interesting trim |
Steve,
That's how we did it on Subs.
"Run Silent Run Deep"
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>
>
> Hi Ken
>
> Perhaps you hit on something. Yachts are using active trim tanks usually
> side to side to reduce heel. Perhaps you could install a small soda
> bottle fore and aft with a a manual trim pump in the cockpit. Putting the
> tank as far aft as possible would give you a good amount of moment. You
> could even have a third port in the cockpit so you could have a little
> drink while flying along. It could be a problem in the winter with freeze
> up but I'm sure some suitable ducting could be worked out.
>
> Could call it the wet trim system. Thinking more about it the weight
> penalty is not good perhaps Helium ballons stuffed in each end with a
> transfer.............................
>
> Steve G
>
>
>>From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interesting trim
>>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Clif,
>>
>> The first thing you would have to do is figure out the amount of urine
>> stored inside the bladder. Then applying some mathematical calculations,
>> you can determine the weight of the uric acid versus untainted liquid
>> water to arrive at a weight per ounce. Then subtract that number from
>> 6.6033 to determine the correct amount of ballast within the bladder. In
>> the sagittal plane you need to calculate the arm for weight and balance
>> to find a starting point of adjusted movement of weight relative to
>> center of gravity in the aircraft and the human body. Then and only then
>> can you get the true accurate number of forward weight deflection within
>> the cabin of a pilot who has to pee......
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>Clif Dawson wrote:
>>
>>I've been told you can do the same sticking your
>>arms out. :-)
>>
>>And a question. A pilot takes off from airport A.
>>As the flight progresses, the pilot finds himself
>>needing to pee. By the time he reaches his
>>destination, airport B, his bladder is full.
>>
>>How does this accumulation of fluid affect W+B ?
>>
>>Clif
>>
>>
>> > Hi Guys...
>> > I figured out something really cool the other morning while flying.
>> > Others I'm sure have figured this out too. I don't have any kind of
>>pitch
>> > trim. I have a nose tank that holds about 14.5 gallons. While somewhere
>> > around 8 gallons it is pretty much in trim in pitch with my weight. If
>> > I
>> > let go of the stick and leaned back it slowly pitches up. If I leaned
>> > forward it slowly pitches down. I know it only makes sense but I don't
>> > think I've ever flown anything that is so easily affected by weight
>> > movement!
>> > Don Emch
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers - long reply |
They made it legal and got hitched recently. I forget exactly when but
within the last year
michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Ash
I owned a home in Deltona, maybe 20 miles southwest of Daytona, for 12
years. I was the president of Central Florida Corvairs for a couple
years in the mid 90's. I think William also hangs out with EAA chapter
635 (the corn-roast guys at Sun 'n Fun) based in Deland, which was my
chapter when I lived in the area. I've known William for a number of
years through these affiliations. Grace Korosec is William's long-time
girlfriend (Common law in Florida is 7-years, maybe she's his wife by
now) . I guess that qualifies her as obvious follower.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers - long reply |
I can see a lot of reasons not to use carb heat all the time. When you heat
the air going in, you reduce the density of the air and thus the horsepower.
At that point you need a higher power setting to produce the same amount of
HP burning more fuel in the process.
Worse than that you will lose more than just a few RPM's if left on at
takeoff. That power just might be what gets you over the tree tops.
Most installations when you pull the carb heat, you also by pass the air
filter. Lots of people think that carb heat helps the engine warm up faster
so they taxi out with carb heat on with no idea that the dirt the landing
gear is kicking up is being sucked into the engine without any filtration at
all. There is can work like sandpaper on expensive engine parts.
Everyone should have a solid idea of what carb ice looks like. Some
airplanes and engines are more prone to it. Someone asked about reasons for
engine failures on a few posts ago.
The last order I heard for the most common reasons for engine failure are
1. No gas on the airplane. 2. Contaminated gas on the airplane (water
trash ect) 3 Gas on the airplane, but the fuel selector on an empty tank.
4. Carb Icing.
There is a lot there we can do something about isnt it.
----- Original Message -----
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers - long reply
>
> Everybody I know of who flys up here only uses carb heat on the down
> wind,base and final portion of the landing.Unless they are on a long trip,
> now and then at intervals ,they will turn on carb heat to make sure the
> carb is clear.I know of no one who flys with carb heat on all the time as
> this letter would suggest????????????????
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
> Vander Voort
> Sent: May 4, 2006 12:25 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers - long reply
>
>
>
> Rob,
>
> Not my text, I just cut and pasted this from a website:
>
> ------As the aircraft carburetor vaporizes fuel, it cools the intake air
> by
> evaporation. The carburetor venturi also cools the air by adiabatically
> expanding the intake air, known as the Joule-Thomson Effect. If the air
> temperature drops below the dew point, moisture in the air condenses into
> water droplets. Thus, water can be present in the carburetor even when
> flying in clear skies.
>
>
> Ice forms near the aircraft carburetor butterfly when water droplets
> strike parts of the carburetor (typically the butterfly and venturi) that
> are freezing. Freezing is determined by: the outside air temperature, the
> temperature drop, and heat absorption from the engine. With the throttle
> partly closed, such as in a low power descent, you may have a 10" Hg or
> more pressure drop across the throttle butterfly.
>
>
> The more gasoline the carburetor evaporates, the colder the carburetor. As
> your engine idles at the end of the runway, little fuel is evaporating and
> the carburetor's temperature may be above freezing. Adding takeoff power
> increases the rate of fuel evaporation. Now the carburetor may be cold
> enough to form carburetor ice. Your carburetor can get pretty cold. The
> heat loss from evaporation of gasoline at the stoichiometric ratio creates
> a theoretical temperature drop of 40 degrees F. The adiabatic expansion of
> gas across the carburetor's venturi also lowers the temperature. Thus, you
> could drop the carburetor temperature to freezing and form carburetor ice
> at an ambient temperature of 72 degrees or higher. Stoichiometric is the
> leanest possible mixture. At richer mixtures the ambient temperature at
> which carburetor ice forms is even higher - Lycoming publishes a
> temperature range of twenty to 90 degrees F. for carburetor ice.
>
>
> Adding alcohol to gasoline dramatically increases the ambient temperature
> where ice forms. Evaporating methyl alcohol creates a temperature drop of
> 300 degrees F. As a result, carburetor ice occurs over a wide range of
> temperatures.
>
>
> Your Continental aircraft engine forms carburetor ice at a higher outside
> air temperature than your Lycoming engine since the carburetor on a
> Continental engine absorbs less engine heat. Continental mounts the
> carburetor to the intake pipes away from engine heat. Lycoming mounts the
> carburetor to the oil pan where it absorbs heat from the engine oil. One
> side effect of forming carburetor ice at a higher air temperature is that
> the warm air holds more moisture than cold air; therefore, you have a
> potential for greater carburetor icing with Continental engines than with
> Lycoming engines ------
>
> The Corvair WW setup is very similar to a Continental engine and carb heat
> must be applied!
> During test running of my Corvair on a test stand I could measure (and see
> and feel ) the cooling effect right behind the carburetor.
> It gets cold ! ...very cold at part throttle, the high humidity will cause
> the outside of the intake manifold to get wet (water droplets) image what
> happens on the inside.
>
> I copied the setup that Mark Langford uses on his Corvair see
>>>http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/airbox/
> Not his air box but only his heat pick up around the exhaust manifold.
> My exhaust manifold is however not stainless steel (stainless steel is
> poor
> conductor of heat) I used plain carbon steel and painted it black (maximum
> heat rejection).
>
> This works very well, the recommended 90 F temperature rise is easily
> achieved.
> The hot air is robbing a lot of HP, In flight I can feel the extra few
> RPM/HP kick-in when I remove Carb heat.
>
> Carb heat is not a problem in summer months in the Houston Texas area, as
> temperatures are 90 - 100 degree but rest of the year the temperatures are
> varying between 60 to 80 F and humidity is high year round.
>
> I fly with carb heat on constantly, only during take off and taxing on the
> ground I use cold filtered air.
> Right before take off, during the run up I apply carb heat for about 1
> minute with engine at 2500 RPM.
>
> Hans
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
There is one thing I'm ever so grateful to Corky for installing in 41CC- an
access cover to allow access into the tailcone from underneath. Laying on a
typical automotive creeper, with this cover removed I have full, complete,
and ready access to the elevator bellcrank assembly and all the cables
running aft of the pilot's seat. It even turns out to be the exactly
correct distance for my bifocals to focus on the assembly without me having
to move my head up and down to focus to adjust the turnbuckles and safety
them ;o) I really don't see how you can do without this, other than fully
assembling the bellcrank assembly and attaching control cables to it prior
to covering the aft fuselage.
The one Corky made for 41CC is just a flat piece of aluminum about 16"
square, attached to the underside framing members with PK screws. Pictures
on request.
Gee, it never occurred to me that if this access cover hadn't been
installed, getting back into the tailcone to re-rig the elevator control
cables could leave me feeling like the morning after my wedding night like
it did Harvey. I think I'd give the price of my last colonoscopy to feel
like that again ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: seat question |
Dan
That is right. Try sitting at that angle for 2 1/2 hours. Some have raised
the seat bottom a bit for pilot height Now is the time to think about these
things. Mine is built to plans and killed my back till someone suggested
rolling over my self inflating sleeping bag pad as a seat, which made a
great difference.
On my new project, I reclined the seat back 1 1/2 inches for comfort. If
doing that, don't forget to calculate the change in CG.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: seat question
Hey all,
I was spending some time last night drafting out my fuse sides and ran into
an area that needs some clarification. The dimensions for the pilots seat
back (22" long) and the seat front (6" high) end up making a seat that just
doesn't "look" right. The rear seat support ends up very close to the
bottom of the fuse and the angle between the seat bottom and seat back is
about 84 Deg. Does this sound about right? or what have others done in this
area? It would be easy to raise the rear support an inch and add a wedge to
the seat back to give the seat a more "normal" look... Looks like it is
time to build a mock-up and sit it in front of the TV for a while to see
what is comfortable.
Dan L.
Fargo, ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Naiva" <corvaircoupe(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | The Canadians sure like the Pietenpol |
I found an interesting link showing quite a few Pietenpols registered in Canada.
Matt
http://www.airport-data.com/manuf/Pietenpol.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: The Canadians sure like the Pietenpol |
They have a few things wrong though. C-AOG
is actually CF-AOG. Same with the others with
three letter identifiers.
CF-AOG was not built in 75, it was REbuilt then
by the original builders son. I'm not sure of the
original date of registration but the owner told me
that it is the oldest continuously registered aircraft
in Canada.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=IMG_0239.jpg&PhotoID=361
I don't think it gets flown much anymore. The owner
has recently finished an RV. :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Naiva" <corvaircoupe(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Canadians sure like the Pietenpol
>
>
> I found an interesting link showing quite a few Pietenpols registered in
> Canada.
>
> Matt
>
>
> http://www.airport-data.com/manuf/Pietenpol.html
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
Oscar,
Please send photos, I don't want to stand on my head for this process or to
tear a hole in the fabric, when I have some.
Rob
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailcone access
There is one thing I'm ever so grateful to Corky for installing in 41CC- an
access cover to allow access into the tailcone from underneath. Laying on a
typical automotive creeper, with this cover removed I have full, complete,
and ready access to the elevator bellcrank assembly and all the cables
running aft of the pilot's seat. It even turns out to be the exactly
correct distance for my bifocals to focus on the assembly without me having
to move my head up and down to focus to adjust the turnbuckles and safety
them ;o) I really don't see how you can do without this, other than fully
assembling the bellcrank assembly and attaching control cables to it prior
to covering the aft fuselage.
The one Corky made for 41CC is just a flat piece of aluminum about 16"
square, attached to the underside framing members with PK screws. Pictures
on request.
Gee, it never occurred to me that if this access cover hadn't been
installed, getting back into the tailcone to re-rig the elevator control
cables could leave me feeling like the morning after my wedding night like
it did Harvey. I think I'd give the price of my last colonoscopy to feel
like that again ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
That sounds like a neat arrangement .I wonder if I can cut a hole now that the
fusy is completed.I will look into this the next time I go to the field.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Stapleton
Sent: May 5, 2006 3:47 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tailcone access
Oscar,
Please send photos, I don't want to stand on my head for this process or to
tear a hole in the fabric, when I have some.
Rob
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailcone access
There is one thing I'm ever so grateful to Corky for installing in 41CC- an
access cover to allow access into the tailcone from underneath. Laying on a
typical automotive creeper, with this cover removed I have full, complete,
and ready access to the elevator bellcrank assembly and all the cables
running aft of the pilot's seat. It even turns out to be the exactly
correct distance for my bifocals to focus on the assembly without me having
to move my head up and down to focus to adjust the turnbuckles and safety
them ;o) I really don't see how you can do without this, other than fully
assembling the bellcrank assembly and attaching control cables to it prior
to covering the aft fuselage.
The one Corky made for 41CC is just a flat piece of aluminum about 16"
square, attached to the underside framing members with PK screws. Pictures
on request.
Gee, it never occurred to me that if this access cover hadn't been
installed, getting back into the tailcone to re-rig the elevator control
cables could leave me feeling like the morning after my wedding night like
it did Harvey. I think I'd give the price of my last colonoscopy to feel
like that again ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Canadians sure like the Pietenpol |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Well, THIS Canadian sure likes the Pietenpol.
Here's a link to the official list of aircraft registered as Pietenpols
in Canada. Just type Pietenpol in the box labelled "Common Aircraft
Name" and click "Search".
http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepages/ccarcs/en/current_e.asp#quick?x
_lang=e
Here's another interesting site, that lists aircraft registered in the
UK. What's really nice about this one is that it has photos for many of
the planes, and lists which ones have photos.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=60&pagetype=65&applicat
ionid=1&mode=summary&aircrafttype=pietenpol
Bill C
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Naiva
Sent: May 5, 2006 12:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Canadians sure like the Pietenpol
-->
I found an interesting link showing quite a few Pietenpols registered in
Canada.
Matt
http://www.airport-data.com/manuf/Pietenpol.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Canadians sure like the Pietenpol |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
I did a search at www.Landings.com
US registry
Manufactures name: Pietenpol 30 returns (US home builders list their
name as manufacturer to qualify for FAA repairman certificate)
Model name: Air Camper 91 returns
Model name: Aircamper 237 returns
Model name: Pietenpol 380 returns
Canadian registry:
Manufactures name: Pietenpol 57 returns
Model name: Aircamper 32 returns
Model name: Air camper 6 return
Pretty impressive for a scratch build airplane.
Just to compare:
I did another search on RV6 returned 588 entries
And another on Kitfox (most build KIT plane ?) returned 1381 entries
Hans
"Matt Naiva"
To
Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: The Canadians sure
like the Pietenpol
05/04/2006 10:52
PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
I found an interesting link showing quite a few Pietenpols registered in
Canada.
Matt
http://www.airport-data.com/manuf/Pietenpol.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
| From: | "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy(at)yahoo.com> |
Dangerous? Why? How?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32989#32989
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
Manny,
All airplanes are and flying is dangerous, everything that goes up must
come down, controlled or uncontrolled.
The uncontrolled is the dangerous part.
Although according to NTSB most accidents are caused by the pilot. (they
always seem to be unable to keep clearance from terrain)
If properly build, the Pietenpol Air Camper is no more dangerous than a
Champ or Cub
It is just another Taildragger and not that difficult to fly.
Hans
"Brown Gravy"
<mjs.browngravy@y
ahoo.com> To
Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
05/05/2006 10:28
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
Dangerous? Why? How?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=32989#32989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
I've thermalled standard-type gliders with eagles and other birds of prey. I'm
a little surprised they tolerated the noise you were making.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Stapleton <foto(at)alaska.net>
>Sent: May 5, 2006 12:59 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
>
>
>Iye, Iye!
>I too fly ultralights and get the same, how can you fly that thing with a
>snowmachine engine???? Well I fly on skis in the winter, land on sandbars in
>the summer, fly around 7,8,9,000 foot peaks and soar with the eagles.
>Literally many time I turned into a thermal, looked over my shoulder and
>found that I had company, a bald eagle. After flying with the eagles there
>isn't much that is going to convince me that I need to quit, or to fly a big
>heavy overly sophisticated Cessna.
>No, give me fresh air, slow airspeeds and great memories any day, not your
>doubts.
>Rob
>Birchwood, Alaska
>
>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
>deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
>
>...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
Noise? What Noise? I had the engine shut off.
But I have many times thermalled with eagles with the engine on. I am using
an intake silencer, dual muffler, and a three bladed AERO prop with flared
tips to cut down noise.
Thermalling with two people I set the throttle to a flat cruise, hit a
thermal and turn to stay in it. Once I have 5,000 feet and I am flying away
from a ridge or over the face of a peak, I shut down and glide back to PABV.
What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned, throttled back, not
engine out?
Rob
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
I've thermalled standard-type gliders with eagles and other birds of prey.
I'm a little surprised they tolerated the noise you were making.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Stapleton <foto(at)alaska.net>
>Sent: May 5, 2006 12:59 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
>
>
>Iye, Iye!
>I too fly ultralights and get the same, how can you fly that thing with a
>snowmachine engine???? Well I fly on skis in the winter, land on sandbars
in
>the summer, fly around 7,8,9,000 foot peaks and soar with the eagles.
>Literally many time I turned into a thermal, looked over my shoulder and
>found that I had company, a bald eagle. After flying with the eagles there
>isn't much that is going to convince me that I need to quit, or to fly a
big
>heavy overly sophisticated Cessna.
>No, give me fresh air, slow airspeeds and great memories any day, not your
>doubts.
>Rob
>Birchwood, Alaska
>
>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
>deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
>
>...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:32:15 PM Central Standard Time,
foto(at)alaska.net writes:
What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned, throttled back, not
engine out?
Glides like a Brick !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Interesting trim...revisited. |
Hi Guy's,
First time poster here. My name is Dave and I'm near jacksonville,
Florida. I've been considering a Piet for quite sometime now mainly
because I'm the "nostalgic" type and I want to *build* vs. "assemble" my
own airplane...oh yeah...it's a two seater so I have the family's
*blessing*.
I intend to make some minor changes... nothing radical. I'm a pretty big
boy. I'm just looking for a tad more room in the rear seat mainly...but
I wont go into that at this time.
I did however, Find the"Interesting trim" thread...well, interesting. I
would like to throw an idea on the table for everyone's consideration
and if you wish, comment. What would you think of dual trim tabs, one on
each elevator half ? I'm refering to a very simple single "bowden cable"
type arangement with seperate levers in the cockpit to control each trim
tab. I'm wondering if in addition to longitudinal trim, a controlled
"rolling moment" may be induced by the seperate trim tabs that might
pickup a heavy wing or perhaps a out of rig rudder? Could the tab
positions be noted and adjustments to the rigging (All axis's) be made
to have a hands off airplane in cruise? Once the aircraft is rigged to
its own "groove" would the tabs be just that much more efficient? Could
the airplane be trimmed to fly hands off in all flight modes and
airspeeds.
I like a airplane that flies hands off once you have it setup. The
airplanes seem to like it too :-) The less I *bother* them...the better
they fly.
Anyway...what do you think? Is this too far out in left field?
Comments welcome
Dave
Down in Florida
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:32:15 PM Central Standard Time,
foto(at)alaska.net writes:
What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned, throttled
back, not
engine out?
Glides like a Brick !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
True, but also very sensitive to thermals when built light.
>In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:32:15 PM Central Standard Time,
>foto(at)alaska.net writes:
>
>What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned, throttled back, not
>engine out?
>
>Glides like a Brick !!
>Chuck G.
>NX770CG
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I just opened my new issue of Sport Aviation May 06. Very nice pics of
Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnsons Piet with a nicely done article by Greg.
Nice one
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Interesting trim...revisited. |
Dave
Others have probably made the changes you are thinking about. Get into
the archive section of the list and type in some key words like (Cockpit
door) (widen fuselage) (fuselage step) or whatever. It can give you a
lot of answers before you know what all the questions are.
I suspect that a bit of the discussion on trim recently was bouncing
ideas, rather lightly, on trim. You might want trim if you are running
a nose tank. However, I use a 13 gal wing tank with 4 gal reserve in
the nose. I have absolutly no need for a trim tab. The Piet flys almost
hands off at normal cruise. To climb, go to 2100 with the A-65. to
cruise level hold 2000-2050. To decend reduce to 1900.
It is a beautiful flying machine. Pure simplicity.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Interesting trim...revisited.
Hi Guy's,
First time poster here. My name is Dave and I'm near jacksonville,
Florida. I've been considering a Piet for quite sometime now mainly
because I'm the "nostalgic" type and I want to *build* vs. "assemble" my
own airplane...oh yeah...it's a two seater so I have the family's
*blessing*.
I intend to make some minor changes... nothing radical. I'm a pretty
big boy. I'm just looking for a tad more room in the rear seat
mainly...but I wont go into that at this time.
I did however, Find the"Interesting trim" thread...well, interesting.
I would like to throw an idea on the table for everyone's consideration
and if you wish, comment. What would you think of dual trim tabs, one on
each elevator half ? I'm refering to a very simple single "bowden cable"
type arangement with seperate levers in the cockpit to control each trim
tab. I'm wondering if in addition to longitudinal trim, a controlled
"rolling moment" may be induced by the seperate trim tabs that might
pickup a heavy wing or perhaps a out of rig rudder? Could the tab
positions be noted and adjustments to the rigging (All axis's) be made
to have a hands off airplane in cruise? Once the aircraft is rigged to
its own "groove" would the tabs be just that much more efficient? Could
the airplane be trimmed to fly hands off in all flight modes and
airspeeds.
I like a airplane that flies hands off once you have it setup. The
airplanes seem to like it too :-) The less I *bother* them...the better
they fly.
Anyway...what do you think? Is this too far out in left field?
Comments welcome
Dave
Down in Florida
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:32:15 PM Central Standard Time,
foto(at)alaska.net writes:
What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned, throttled
back, not
engine out?
Glides like a Brick !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
Went up for a nice 1 hour flight this morning with a friend of mine.
Just doing some sightseeing. Went south about 5 miles to check out a
fire. Had just turned and started to head north. Since, with a
passenger in the front, there is no forward visibility,,,,, when
something on the right startled me. Thought it was a plane in that
first milisecond.
It was a goose! Startled the crap out of me. He was flying the same
heading and altitude as me, but just 30 feet to my right. That would
have been something to have run up his tail.
Since that wouldn't be a forceful strike, more like a Deli slicer,
would it have taken out my wooden Sensenich prop?? Hmmmm
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: a Goosey tale |
You must have a fast Piet. If this happened to me, I'd be more
concerned about the goose running up my tail than vice versa!
J
>Went up for a nice 1 hour flight this morning with a friend of mine.
>Just doing some sightseeing. Went south about 5 miles to check out
>a fire. Had just turned and started to head north. Since, with a
>passenger in the front, there is no forward visibility,,,,,
>when something on the right startled me. Thought it was a plane in
>that first milisecond.
> It was a goose! Startled the crap out of me. He was flying the
>same heading and altitude as me, but just 30 feet to my right.
>That would have been something to have run up his tail.
>Since that wouldn't be a forceful strike, more like a Deli slicer,
>would it have taken out my wooden Sensenich prop?? Hmmmm
>walt evans
>NX140DL
>
>"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
>Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: a Goosey tale |
Re: Pietenpol-List: a Goosey taleJ,
Yeah, Imagine if the story was that the goose "Honked" and went around
on my left.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a Goosey tale
You must have a fast Piet. If this happened to me, I'd be more
concerned about the goose running up my tail than vice versa!
J
Went up for a nice 1 hour flight this morning with a friend of mine.
Just doing some sightseeing. Went south about 5 miles to check out a
fire. Had just turned and started to head north. Since, with a
passenger in the front, there is no forward visibility,,,,, when
something on the right startled me. Thought it was a plane in that
first milisecond.
It was a goose! Startled the crap out of me. He was flying the
same heading and altitude as me, but just 30 feet to my right. That
would have been something to have run up his tail.
Since that wouldn't be a forceful strike, more like a Deli slicer,
would it have taken out my wooden Sensenich prop?? Hmmmm
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirk Huizenga" <Kirk.Huizenga(at)moundsviewschools.org> |
Am I missing some important worldwide event or something? What is the
deal with the cost of AN115 Shackles. I keep looking for a line
somewhere in ACS that says it is for 100 of them - $10+ dollars for one
of them?
Does anybody know a cheap place to get these? I know they are both cool
and unique, but those prices are insanity.
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Kurt,
I went to a local ships chandler and bought some stainless steel bow
shackles. They were much cheaper and of better strength. Check out this UK
site for examples,
http://www.boatsnbits.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Shackles_78.html
I drilled out the threaded part, closed up the gap a bit and used standard
clevis pins.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kirk
Huizenga
Sent: Sunday, 7 May 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: AN115 Shackles
Am I missing some important worldwide event or something? What is the
deal with the cost of AN115 Shackles. I keep looking for a line
somewhere in ACS that says it is for 100 of them - $10+ dollars for one
of them?
Does anybody know a cheap place to get these? I know they are both cool
and unique, but those prices are insanity.
Kirk
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sport aviation |
Thanks, Dick.
EAA contacted me after seeing an article in our local chapter
newsletter.
They only gave me a couple of days to put the article and pictures
together.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 8:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: sport aviation
I just opened my new issue of Sport Aviation May 06. Very nice pics
of Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnsons Piet with a nicely done article by
Greg.
Nice one
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Thanks Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Don Emch
Lists: Pietenpol-List
Subject: Piet Preflight
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EmchAir@aol.com.05.07.2006/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Chuck I think you are being very unkind to the brick. Mine actually
glides more like a bowling ball than a brick.
Jack Phillips
I don't call mine "Icarus Plummet" for nothing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:32:15 PM Central Standard Time,
foto(at)alaska.net writes:
What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned,
throttled back, not
engine out?
Glides like a Brick !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege=
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i=
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
Mr Galieo say both will fall at exactly the same speed and rate. It was
actually proven on the moon with no air to get in the way, but I suspect
that on earth the differences in affect of the air between a bowling
ball and a brick would be no big deal. lol
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Chuck I think you are being very unkind to the brick. Mine actually
glides more like a bowling ball than a brick.
Jack Phillips
I don't call mine "Icarus Plummet" for nothing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 6:18 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
In a message dated 5/5/2006 12:32:15 PM Central Standard Time,
foto(at)alaska.net writes:
What is a Pietenpol like as far as gliding is concerned, throttled
back, not
engine out?
Glides like a Brick !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I once heard a Grumman Goose pilot describe its glide characteristics
as: "If you lose both engines in the Goose, throw a brick out of the
cockpit window to see where you will land. After landing, run quickly
from the airplane to avoid being hit by the brick."
You and Galileo are right, if there is no air. In the presence of
aerodynamic drag, a tumbling brick will fall considerably slower than a
bowling ball. Now if you can manage to stabilize the brick to fall
narrow end first, it might actually go faster than the bowling ball.
Neither will fall as fast as a Pietenpol seems to with power off.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Mr Galieo say both will fall at exactly the same speed and rate. It was
actually proven on the moon with no air to get in the way, but I suspect
that on earth the differences in affect of the air between a bowling
ball and a brick would be no big deal. lol
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Chuck I think you are being very unkind to the brick. Mine
actually glides more like a bowling ball than a brick.
Jack Phillips
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege=
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i=
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol glide ratio |
| From: | Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> |
All Goose, brick and bowling balls aside.
When I had my engine out I was at 2000 Ft AGL.
I landed easily on a field 2000 ft away while making a 180 in to the wind.
If no turns where made and wind was 0, I would expect a distance of 4000
ft.
Not knowing the optimal glide speed, I kept 50 MPH.
My guess would be a engine out glide ratio of around 1: 2 or 1:3.
More importantly the Piet is slow, even with the nose pointed down it will
take some time to get there.
With the throttle at Idle the glide ratio depends on what idle RPM your
running and the pitch of your prop.
A low pitch Prop and a engine at low idle (600) creates more drag than with
the Prop at standstill.
Hans
"Phillips, Jack"
<Jack.Phillips@ca
rdinal.com> To
Sent by:
owner-pietenpol-l cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com Subject
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair
Flyers
05/08/2006 07:55
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
I once heard a Grumman Goose pilot describe its glide characteristics as:
If you lose both engines in the Goose, throw a brick out of the cockpit
window to see where you will land. After landing, run quickly from the
airplane to avoid being hit by the brick.
You and Galileo are right, if there is no air. In the presence of
aerodynamic drag, a tumbling brick will fall considerably slower than a
bowling ball. Now if you can manage to stabilize the brick to fall narrow
end first, it might actually go faster than the bowling ball. Neither will
fall as fast as a Pietenpol seems to with power off.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Mr Galieo say both will fall at exactly the same speed and rate. It was
actually proven on the moon with no air to get in the way, but I suspect
that on earth the differences in affect of the air between a bowling ball
and a brick would be no big deal. lol
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Chuck I think you are being very unkind to the brick. Mine actually
glides more like a bowling ball than a brick.
Jack Phillips
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers |
The Pietenpol glides like a parachute...
A very small, round, non-steerable parachute, with a big weight on it.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 5:55 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
I once heard a Grumman Goose pilot describe its glide characteristics
as: "If you lose both engines in the Goose, throw a brick out of the
cockpit window to see where you will land. After landing, run quickly
from the airplane to avoid being hit by the brick."
You and Galileo are right, if there is no air. In the presence of
aerodynamic drag, a tumbling brick will fall considerably slower than a
bowling ball. Now if you can manage to stabilize the brick to fall
narrow end first, it might actually go faster than the bowling ball.
Neither will fall as fast as a Pietenpol seems to with power off.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:43 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Mr Galieo say both will fall at exactly the same speed and rate. It
was actually proven on the moon with no air to get in the way, but I
suspect that on earth the differences in affect of the air between a
bowling ball and a brick would be no big deal. lol
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Chuck I think you are being very unkind to the brick. Mine actually
glides more like a bowling ball than a brick.
Jack Phillips
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol glide ratio |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I would agree with Hans. In my own forced landing, my engine was still
running and putting out about 1300 RPM, which extended the glide, but
was not enough to keep it in the air. I was at 1200' AGL, and was
coming down at 400 fpm. There was little wind and I made it about 2-1/2
miles before setting it down on a road. I also used 50 mph as "Best
Glide Speed". My guess is that with the engine out, the descent rate
would be somwhere around 1,000 fpm, which when combined with a forward
speed of 4400 fpm (50 mph), would give a glide ratio of 4.4:1. Not very
impressive, and on the order of the glide ratio of the Space Shuttle.
To get an idea of what that kind of glide ratio feels like, consider
this: In order to simulate the space shuttle glide, NASA uses a
Gulfstream IV with the thrust reversers ON to give a similar glide path.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans
Vander Voort
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol glide ratio
All Goose, brick and bowling balls aside.
When I had my engine out I was at 2000 Ft AGL.
I landed easily on a field 2000 ft away while making a 180 in to the
wind.
If no turns where made and wind was 0, I would expect a distance of
4000
ft.
Not knowing the optimal glide speed, I kept 50 MPH.
My guess would be a engine out glide ratio of around 1: 2 or 1:3.
More importantly the Piet is slow, even with the nose pointed down it
will
take some time to get there.
With the throttle at Idle the glide ratio depends on what idle RPM your
running and the pitch of your prop.
A low pitch Prop and a engine at low idle (600) creates more drag than
with
the Prop at standstill.
Hans
"Phillips, Jack"
<Jack.Phillips@ca
rdinal.com>
To
Sent by:
owner-pietenpol-l
cc
ist-server@matron
ics.com
Subject
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair
Flyers
05/08/2006 07:55
AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com
I once heard a Grumman Goose pilot describe its glide characteristics
as:
"If you lose both engines in the Goose, throw a brick out of the cockpit
window to see where you will land. After landing, run quickly from the
airplane to avoid being hit by the brick."
You and Galileo are right, if there is no air. In the presence of
aerodynamic drag, a tumbling brick will fall considerably slower than a
bowling ball. Now if you can manage to stabilize the brick to fall
narrow
end first, it might actually go faster than the bowling ball. Neither
will
fall as fast as a Pietenpol seems to with power off.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Mr Galieo say both will fall at exactly the same speed and rate. It was
actually proven on the moon with no air to get in the way, but I suspect
that on earth the differences in affect of the air between a bowling
ball
and a brick would be no big deal. lol
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair Flyers
Chuck I think you are being very unkind to the brick. Mine
actually
glides more like a bowling ball than a brick.
Jack Phillips
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
-
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Cc: aadamson(at)wnmdag.org
I've posted two pictures of the tailcone access on 41CC. They are the first
two pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/repairs.html
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
After having fallen silent 541 days ago, the mighty A65-8 engine on the nose
of NX41CC has once again roared to life! Pictures (none of the engine
running though) at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/engine.html .
After reinstalling the overhauled tailwheel unit and the new harness for the
left mag, I rechecked prop tracking and prop bolt torque and went over
everything one more time. I had added yellow tips to the prop for increased
visibility of the prop while running, and I put the fire extinguisher at the
ready, tied the tail and chocked the mains, temporarily installed the fuel
tank and put in four gallons of gas.
I pulled it through a dozen or so blades with the mags off, then turned on
the fuel and mags and gave it a go. The engine putt-putted after a few pulls
and then it flooded so I killed the mags and pulled the prop through
backwards, cut off the fuel, and tried it again... this time it ran but a
bit rough and obviously rich. The very best news is that the oil pressure
only took a few seconds to come up. I was worried about it being able to
prime and pump after sitting so long, but the pressure came right up to
30-35 psi and did well. I wasn't able to test the carb heat because after a
mag check, I quickly found out why the engine was running rich and rough...
the right mag (old "lunch box") was completely dead. I have miswired the
P-lead wire from the right mag to the ignition switch, so I need to correct
that. I ran the engine for about five minutes and the amazing thing is that
it started so easily and ran so well on only one mag. Should be a piece of
cake with both mags working, even without an impulse coupling to help
starting.
For now, I'm immensely proud and happy to hear the engine start and run, and
I got to work the throttle and get my hair all blasted by propwash. It was
a thrill.
I'm down to short rows now before she'll be ready to put the wings back on
and try some flying!
Oscar "El Taco Flaco" Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
I noticed you have scoops for air intake over your cylinders.Is this
something I will need on an 80 hp Franklyn;anybody out there know?Thanks
in advance for any info.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: May 8, 2006 10:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: she bangs-!
After having fallen silent 541 days ago, the mighty A65-8 engine on the
nose
of NX41CC has once again roared to life! Pictures (none of the engine
running though) at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/engine.html .
After reinstalling the overhauled tailwheel unit and the new harness for
the
left mag, I rechecked prop tracking and prop bolt torque and went over
everything one more time. I had added yellow tips to the prop for
increased
visibility of the prop while running, and I put the fire extinguisher at
the
ready, tied the tail and chocked the mains, temporarily installed the
fuel
tank and put in four gallons of gas.
I pulled it through a dozen or so blades with the mags off, then turned
on
the fuel and mags and gave it a go. The engine putt-putted after a few
pulls
and then it flooded so I killed the mags and pulled the prop through
backwards, cut off the fuel, and tried it again... this time it ran but
a
bit rough and obviously rich. The very best news is that the oil
pressure
only took a few seconds to come up. I was worried about it being able
to
prime and pump after sitting so long, but the pressure came right up to
30-35 psi and did well. I wasn't able to test the carb heat because
after a
mag check, I quickly found out why the engine was running rich and
rough...
the right mag (old "lunch box") was completely dead. I have miswired
the
P-lead wire from the right mag to the ignition switch, so I need to
correct
that. I ran the engine for about five minutes and the amazing thing is
that
it started so easily and ran so well on only one mag. Should be a piece
of
cake with both mags working, even without an impulse coupling to help
starting.
For now, I'm immensely proud and happy to hear the engine start and run,
and
I got to work the throttle and get my hair all blasted by propwash. It
was
a thrill.
I'm down to short rows now before she'll be ready to put the wings back
on
and try some flying!
Oscar "El Taco Flaco" Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Congratulations!!! This is SO exciting!
I love it when I can start off the week with notes like this...
Thanks Oscar.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: she bangs-!
>
>
> After having fallen silent 541 days ago, the mighty A65-8 engine on the
> nose of NX41CC has once again roared to life! Pictures (none of the
> engine running though) at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/engine.html .
>
> After reinstalling the overhauled tailwheel unit and the new harness for
> the left mag, I rechecked prop tracking and prop bolt torque and went over
> everything one more time. I had added yellow tips to the prop for
> increased visibility of the prop while running, and I put the fire
> extinguisher at the ready, tied the tail and chocked the mains,
> temporarily installed the fuel tank and put in four gallons of gas.
>
> I pulled it through a dozen or so blades with the mags off, then turned on
> the fuel and mags and gave it a go. The engine putt-putted after a few
> pulls and then it flooded so I killed the mags and pulled the prop through
> backwards, cut off the fuel, and tried it again... this time it ran but a
> bit rough and obviously rich. The very best news is that the oil pressure
> only took a few seconds to come up. I was worried about it being able to
> prime and pump after sitting so long, but the pressure came right up to
> 30-35 psi and did well. I wasn't able to test the carb heat because after
> a mag check, I quickly found out why the engine was running rich and
> rough... the right mag (old "lunch box") was completely dead. I have
> miswired the P-lead wire from the right mag to the ignition switch, so I
> need to correct that. I ran the engine for about five minutes and the
> amazing thing is that it started so easily and ran so well on only one
> mag. Should be a piece of cake with both mags working, even without an
> impulse coupling to help starting.
>
> For now, I'm immensely proud and happy to hear the engine start and run,
> and I got to work the throttle and get my hair all blasted by propwash.
> It was a thrill.
>
> I'm down to short rows now before she'll be ready to put the wings back on
> and try some flying!
>
> Oscar "El Taco Flaco" Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ken" <kenmont(at)blackfoot.net> |
Ken Montoure
Glad to hear we are all falling at roughly the same rate!!!!!
For a while I thought I had discovered some new quirk of the Pietenpols'
flight characteristics. I had experienced this "glide ratio" and during
the "maneuver" had decided to name the new aerobatic maneuver---"THE
FALLING STONE'
But, never the less, every ascent is exciting and every return to
earth, fills me with an Adrenelin Rush!
Just remember----Altitude and Airspeed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
Wow!
Congratulations, what great news. Thanks for sharing the photos on a weblink
too. This list has the greatest folks!
Music to your ears eh Oscar!
This is a very inspiring way to start the week...thanks!
Rob
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:29 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: she bangs-!
I noticed you have scoops for air intake over your cylinders.Is this
something I will need on an 80 hp Franklyn;anybody out there know?Thanks
in advance for any info.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: May 8, 2006 10:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: she bangs-!
After having fallen silent 541 days ago, the mighty A65-8 engine on the
nose
of NX41CC has once again roared to life! Pictures (none of the engine
running though) at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/engine.html .
After reinstalling the overhauled tailwheel unit and the new harness for
the
left mag, I rechecked prop tracking and prop bolt torque and went over
everything one more time. I had added yellow tips to the prop for
increased
visibility of the prop while running, and I put the fire extinguisher at
the
ready, tied the tail and chocked the mains, temporarily installed the
fuel
tank and put in four gallons of gas.
I pulled it through a dozen or so blades with the mags off, then turned
on
the fuel and mags and gave it a go. The engine putt-putted after a few
pulls
and then it flooded so I killed the mags and pulled the prop through
backwards, cut off the fuel, and tried it again... this time it ran but
a
bit rough and obviously rich. The very best news is that the oil
pressure
only took a few seconds to come up. I was worried about it being able
to
prime and pump after sitting so long, but the pressure came right up to
30-35 psi and did well. I wasn't able to test the carb heat because
after a
mag check, I quickly found out why the engine was running rich and
rough...
the right mag (old "lunch box") was completely dead. I have miswired
the
P-lead wire from the right mag to the ignition switch, so I need to
correct
that. I ran the engine for about five minutes and the amazing thing is
that
it started so easily and ran so well on only one mag. Should be a piece
of
cake with both mags working, even without an impulse coupling to help
starting.
For now, I'm immensely proud and happy to hear the engine start and run,
and
I got to work the throttle and get my hair all blasted by propwash. It
was
a thrill.
I'm down to short rows now before she'll be ready to put the wings back
on
and try some flying!
Oscar "El Taco Flaco" Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | cooling scoops for Franklin |
Here are some pix of a Piet with Franklin, and it definitely has the eyebrow
scoops:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets2.html
Not sure how it would cool without them.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | cooling eyebrows |
copied from poster board patterns of a J-3 Cub's eyebrows. Used .025"
0000 dead soft alum. sheet.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Don,
Can't get over how beautiful your plane is!!
How did you cover the wheels? I like that look. Wonder if I can do that to
my spoke wheels.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Don Emch
>
> Lists: Pietenpol-List
>
> Subject: Piet Preflight
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EmchAir@aol.com.05.07.2006/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Covered wire wheels |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Walt,
In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky Gypsy) in
Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one of those and
that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite a few years
before I actually started building but when I did and when I got to the wheels
I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the tires on without
messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few inches bigger
in diameter than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a big 'washer' out of
aluminum that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke ends. I cut little
pie shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the back side of the washer.
Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing the edges around the
inside of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue a tape all the way around
the rim to tie the two sides together. This probably doesn't really need
to be done but can't hurt. Finish like any other fabric surface. I put an inspection
ring on the inside of both wheels. I leave it uncovered and placed
it near the air valve. With your tires already on the rim, you could probably
just let the air out and clamp the tire flat to get to the inside edge of the
rim. Wouldn't have to deal with getting the tire on without damaging the finish.
Tire change time though you'll have to deal with it. Mask the edges and
use lots of soap and a little cussing.
Hope you try it. Keeps from having to clean the spokes and you'll probably pick
up 1 to 2 mph!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33550#33550
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol Glide Performance |
Now steady on chaps, all this talk about bowling balls and bricks applies in
my opinion only to the glide angle that an idling Pietenpol would achieve.
In my experience (Continental A65 / Sensenich 72-42) the sink rate is not
that bad, and certainly such that one can climb in reasonable lift from
thermals, ridge and wave. You can't really then go anywhere without opening
the throttle because of the poor glide angle, but you can certainly get that
"Something for nothing" feeling that inspires a lot of glider pilots, and
there is also a good chance of coming across soaring birds in most
locations, which is indeed a fine thing.
Mike Hayes
G-BKVO
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
I just don't understand why anybody would want to cover up beautiful
spoked wheels??????????????????????????
No not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: May 8, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
Don,
Can't get over how beautiful your plane is!!
How did you cover the wheels? I like that look. Wonder if I can do
that to
my spoke wheels.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Don Emch
>
> Lists: Pietenpol-List
>
> Subject: Piet Preflight
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/EmchAir@aol.com.05.07.2006/index.htm
l
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
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> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Glide Performance |
Mike Hayes is right that you can get some thermal action in a Piet and on
many, many occasions I have
had to throttle back and push the stick forward to stop the ridiculous rate
of climb when I hit thermals.........but
with power at idle, you have drag city written all over a Pietenpol and the
only thing that will glide worse is
a biplane Jenny or old fashioned ultralight with cable braces and tubing
everywhere.
When the engine quits in a Pietenpol your circle of choices to land is very
tight....and it drifts with the wind.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covered wire wheels |
To add to this post, here is a web site that can create wheel covers for you along
with building a wider wheel. They are builders and fliers of post war built
aircraft. Scroll thru the site and you can see the finished product along with
information to costs ect....I plan on using them for my wheels and metal hub
cap covers.
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76
Ken Heide
Faro, ND
Don Emch wrote:
Walt,
In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky Gypsy) in
Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one of those and
that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite a few years before
I actually started building but when I did and when I got to the wheels
I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the tires on without
messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few inches bigger in diameter
than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a big 'washer' out of aluminum
that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke ends. I cut little pie
shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the back side of the washer.
Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing the edges around the inside
of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue a tape all the way around the
rim to tie the two sides together. This probably doesn't really need to be done
but can't hurt. Finish like any other f!
abric surface. I put an inspection ring on the inside of both wheels. I leave it
uncovered and placed it near the air valve. With your tires already on the rim,
you could probably just let the air out and clamp the tire flat to get to
the inside edge of the rim. Wouldn't have to deal with getting the tire on without
damaging the finish. Tire change time though you'll have to deal with it.
Mask the edges and use lots of soap and a little cussing.
Hope you try it. Keeps from having to clean the spokes and you'll probably pick
up 1 to 2 mph!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33550#33550
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Covered wire wheels |
| From: | "Egan, John" <jegan(at)kcc.com> |
I've been on the fence whether to use Airdrome brand hubs because I believe=
they use 1-1/4" axles where I thought the Piets called for 1-1/2". Was it
Jack Phillips who cautioned the group on axle size and strength=3F My
apologies if I'm incorrect with any of this. I think the Airdrome plane
axles also slide an 18" sleeve inside the axle at each end to strengthen it=
which may be great, and I have not yet calculated the difference in weight
or bending strength. I would like to use these wheels too, but have not
committed to anything yet due to the above information. I also wonder what=
the weight of the Airdrome planes are compared to an Aircamper.
Wheel Covers: I've visited the "Old Rhinebeck Airdrome" a number of times
and I see many of the WW1 replicas there take a light sheet of aluminum, cu=
t=
it appropriately so it kind of rolls into a shallow cone shape to fit over=
the outside of the wheels. The covers kind of fit loosely over the wheels
and can be easily removed. Something to consider... You guys who fabric
the wheels do a great job.
Looking for thoughts on this subject (axles).
John
________________________________
=46rom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covered wire wheels
To add to this post, here is a web site that can create wheel covers for yo=
u=
along with building a wider wheel. They are builders and fliers of post wa=
r=
built aircraft. Scroll thru the site and you can see the finished product
along with information to costs ect....I plan on using them for my wheels
and metal hub cap covers.
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp=3Fpage76
Ken Heide
=46aro, ND
Don Emch wrote:
Walt,
In 1985, at the ripe old age of 13, I saw the Pavliga Air Camper (Sky
Gypsy) in Sport Aviation. I remember telling my Dad I wanted to build one o=
=66=
those and that it was going to have the same kind of wheels. It took quite=
a few years before I actually started building but when I did and when I go=
t=
to the wheels I copied Frank's. The covering is really simple. Getting the=
tires on without messing it up isn't. Just cut a big circle of fabric a few=
inches bigger in diameter than the rim with a hole in the center. Make a bi=
g=
'washer' out of aluminum that will fit over the hub and cover up the spoke=
ends. I cut little pie shaped cuts and folded and glued those around to the=
back side of the washer. Position the fabric over the hub and start glueing=
the edges around the inside of the rim. Once both sides are done then glue
a=
tape all the way around the rim to tie the two sides together. This
probably doesn't really need to be done but can't hurt. Finish like any
other f!
abric surface. I put an inspection ring on the inside of both wheels. I
leave it uncovered and placed it near the air valve. With your tires alread=
y=
on the rim, you could probably
________________________________
starting at 1=A2/min.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/ev=
This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contai=
n=
privileged, confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from
disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please
inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any
printed copy. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [ Don Emch ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I guess it's just like Ford vs. Chevy, Cub vs. Champ, covered vs. uncovered. That's
what makes Pietenpols so interesting. Each one has it's own uniqueness!
:)
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33683#33683
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Welcome Dave,
What does the GN-1 use for capstrips? I've heard that 1/4 x 1/4 is used
on lots of other planes, and that the 1/2 x 1/4 specified on the Piet
are a little overengineered. Others will tell you to stick to the
plans. Where in Florida are you located?
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
D.Reid wrote:
> Hiya gang,
> Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
> ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
> already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
> this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
> where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any
> problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say
> I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a
> solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
>
> Comments?
> Thanks,
> Dave...Down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Hiya Ben,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm NW of Jacksonville near a little two horse town
called Callahan.
You're right. Most all airplanes I've seen plans for used 1/4" X 1/4"
capstrip. Even with spruce 1/4" X 1/2" seems heavy duty and I intend to
build mine with fir. Spars will be laminated fir as well and may be 3/4"
thick with 1/8" ply plate doublers where needed to maintain proper diminsion
associated structure. Still havnt decided for sure yet.
I may extend the wings a couple of feet which will reduce wing loading a
little and help on a hot humid day down here.
Rib nose blocks will be 1/4" marine fir or Okume. Whatever I can find
locally. As I mentioned .020 aluminum L/E and trailing edge will be aluminum
as well.
I just have a good bit of this stuff on hand already and figured I would use
it. I'm not really a "purist" but safety is first and foremost and really
like this forum. Seems like a great bunch of people that really know there
"Piet's"
Thanks for any comments or info.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
>
> Welcome Dave,
> What does the GN-1 use for capstrips? I've heard that 1/4 x 1/4 is used
> on lots of other planes, and that the 1/2 x 1/4 specified on the Piet are
> a little overengineered. Others will tell you to stick to the plans.
> Where in Florida are you located?
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
> D.Reid wrote:
>
>> Hiya gang,
>> Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
>> ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already
>> ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I
>> was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is
>> going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems with using
>> 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a GN-1
>> airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood nose
>> block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
>> Comments?
>> Thanks,
>> Dave...Down in Florida
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
My Piet is not flying yet, so consider my advise accordingly. I would not reduce
the size of the rib capstrip unless I had an aero engineer run the numbers first.
Yes the 1/2X1/4 is larger than most wood truss type ribs, but the Piet and
to some extent the GN1 wings are designed differently than other wood wings.
I think the Piet rib is used to carry more of the loads than some other planes.
Just my 2 cents.
Skip, in West Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing ribs and
I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip already ripped and ready
to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had this until I was cleaning up the
shop a few days ago...so, you know where this is going...so, what do you think.
Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I
should also say I'm using a GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs
and a solid plywood nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
I=92m building a GN-1. The plans call for 1/4 by =BC capstrips for 65
HP '
=BC by =BD for over 65 HP.
Good Luck,
Tom Bernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Reid
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
The data I had first rec'd on the mat'l required was,,,,,Over
65HP1/4x1/2 under 65HP1/4x1/4
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
Welcome aboard; we can always use some additions to the Florida Piet 'herd'.
I am on Tavares,FL; about 35 miles NW of Orlando and I built my bird of Doug
Fir for all the structural stuff. Also used 3/4" laminated spars.
I concurr with the theory that Bernard built 'hell for stout'. I made my
longerons 15/16" vs 1" and if I were to do it over I believe I would go with
7/8". I don't think you are too far out to think about using 1/4" square cap
strips. After all thats what Pitts and a lot of other planes have used. I'd go
to 3/8" caps no problem. You could make sample test ribs, a 1/4" and a plans
1/2 " and do a static destructive load test just to get an idea of what the
feasibility would be.
I used to fly with the Navy Flying Club at NAS Jax and I used to take
students over to the grass strip at Callahan frequently.. At Thomasville a few
years
back there was an interesting Piet from Callahan; it had an aluminum covered
turtle deck.
Regards,
Lou Larsen
another cracker GOB, (good ole boy) translated for the Yankees!
Lou Larsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Using 1/4 X 1/4 instead of 1/4 X 1/2 capstrips will save a little over 2
1/2 pounds if using spruce and a little over 3 pounds if using douglas
fir.
I know weight savings is important but, personally, I would look
elsewhere for weight savings.
Additionally, some info says to use 1/4 X 1/4 if your hp is 65 or less.
Other than the slipstream, I don't see a connection between hp and
capstrip size.
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
From: D.Reid
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
Hiya gang,
Another Piet project is off and running. Ready to start building wing
ribs and I discovered a "ton" of 1/4" X 1/4" douglas fir capstrip
already ripped and ready to turn into ribs. I didnt know I still had
this until I was cleaning up the shop a few days ago...so, you know
where this is going...so, what do you think. Can anyone see any problems
with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing? I should also say I'm using a
GN-1 airfoil with the verticle uprights on the ribs and a solid plywood
nose block. L/E will be most likely .020 aluminum.
Comments?
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
Before today I have never actually seen a completed Pietenpol. I emailed Walt
Evans to see if I could take a look at his plane since I was driving out to New
York City and he's in New Jersey. Being the nice guy that he is he extended
an offer to meet me at his hangar. It was drizzly and WINDY and he came out
and showed me around his plane. Can't say enough about what a nice job he's done.
I also can't say what seeing the finished product means to somebody who
just has a bundle of wood, T-88, a rib jig and a couple of ribs and an easle with
plans resting on it. Wow!
After talking for quite some time I thought we were wrapping up and he asked if
I was interested in a ride. The wind had died down and conditions had improved.
I didn't want to impose but at the same time I didn't want to pass up an
opportunity like this. So I took him up on the offer. Getting into the passenger
place helped me brush up on long lost jungle gym skills and then, there I
was, looking at his passenger panel. I couldn't believe it was happening. He
fired up the Continental, taxi'd out, and before I could say Holy $#*% we were
in the air and climbing!
Right then and there, it hit me. This is what it's all about. Definitely an experience
that I'll never forget and a catalyst for my project. I knew it would
be fun, I just didn't know how much. Like I told him, I can't remember how
many times I said "Wow!" during the drive home.
Thanks Walt!!!!!
Nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel. This is one project that MUST get
done.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33761#33761
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Dave,
You need to track down a man named Pat Green. He has a Piet that he
keeps in the Jacksonville area somewhere. He extended his wings for
added lift, as he put it to get over the pine trees at the end of many
Florida airports. Its powered by a Corvair with the BP conversion
complete with blower fan and has been flying since the 70's. I can send
you some pictures of his Piet directly if you are interested. I wish I
remembered what airport.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine needed a
longer track record than that to be considered safe for an experimental
nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or Corvair engines, only the
dinosaurs.
Rick H.
On 5/9/06, Jim Ash wrote:
>
>
> I owe this list, and William Wynne specifically, an apology. The comments
> I made in my email to this group on 4 May were misconstrued as an attack
on
> William and his work. This was not my intent, and for this misunderstandi=
ng
> I sincerely apologize.
>
> My intent was to impress the point that Corvair engines do not have a lon=
g
> and established history in aircraft, and that in using one in your own
> airplane you absolutely need to understand everything about what you've d=
one
> with it, and why, in your specific set of circumstances. This also includ=
es
> understanding the risks involved in light of the lack of history mentione=
d
> above.
>
> Jim Ash
>
=
tor
-
much
=
ki!
=
=
-Matt
=
=
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
D.Reid wrote:
Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing?>
Thanks,
Dave...Down in Florida
Dave,
Welcome to the group.
Here's an interesting post regarding the use of 1/4" x 1/4" capstrips,
from a couple of months ago.
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=43649709?KEYS
=capstrip?LISTNAME=Pietenpol?HITNUMBER=29?SERIAL=05085421333?SHOWBUTTONS
=YES
Food for thought.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
Some emails applications, like mine, cut off the end of these types of
links....some of you may need to cut and paste the entire link (everything
through "=YES") and paste that into your browser....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip (???)
>
>
>
> D.Reid wrote:
>
> Can anyone see any problems with using 1/4" capstrip on the Piet wing?>
>
> Thanks,
> Dave...Down in Florida
>
>
> Dave,
> Welcome to the group.
> Here's an interesting post regarding the use of 1/4" x 1/4" capstrips,
> from a couple of months ago.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=43649709?KEYS
> =capstrip?LISTNAME=Pietenpol?HITNUMBER=29?SERIAL=05085421333?SHOWBUTTONS
> =YES
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
William Wynne has posted an update on his website, at
http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar.html . The Zenith aircraft factory will be
hosting a "Corvair Day" on May 20 in Mexico, Missouri. Not a "Corvair
College" workshop, but an open house and meet/greet. William will inspect
parts if you bring them. Looks like his next project is to develop a
firewall forward package design for the CH701.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib Capstrip (???) |
He's at Hilliard Airport about 25 miles North of Jacksonville.
Eric
>From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Piets in Jacksonville: was Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Capstrip
>(???)
>Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 08:08:01 -0400
>
>
>Dave,
>You need to track down a man named Pat Green. He has a Piet that he keeps
>in the Jacksonville area somewhere. He extended his wings for added lift,
>as he put it to get over the pine trees at the end of many Florida
>airports. Its powered by a Corvair with the BP conversion complete with
>blower fan and has been flying since the 70's. I can send you some
>pictures of his Piet directly if you are interested. I wish I remembered
>what airport.
>
>Ben
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... |
Anytime Glen!,
Glad you had a good time in spite of the gusty conditions.
Ain't Life Grand!!
walt evans
NX140DL
ps I'll post your pics on my yahoo site
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects...
>
>
> Before today I have never actually seen a completed Pietenpol. I emailed
> Walt Evans to see if I could take a look at his plane since I was driving
> out to New York City and he's in New Jersey. Being the nice guy that he
> is he extended an offer to meet me at his hangar. It was drizzly and
> WINDY and he came out and showed me around his plane. Can't say enough
> about what a nice job he's done. I also can't say what seeing the
> finished product means to somebody who just has a bundle of wood, T-88, a
> rib jig and a couple of ribs and an easle with plans resting on it. Wow!
>
> After talking for quite some time I thought we were wrapping up and he
> asked if I was interested in a ride. The wind had died down and
> conditions had improved. I didn't want to impose but at the same time I
> didn't want to pass up an opportunity like this. So I took him up on the
> offer. Getting into the passenger place helped me brush up on long lost
> jungle gym skills and then, there I was, looking at his passenger panel.
> I couldn't believe it was happening. He fired up the Continental, taxi'd
> out, and before I could say Holy $#*% we were in the air and climbing!
>
> Right then and there, it hit me. This is what it's all about. Definitely
> an experience that I'll never forget and a catalyst for my project. I
> knew it would be fun, I just didn't know how much. Like I told him, I
> can't remember how many times I said "Wow!" during the drive home.
>
> Thanks Walt!!!!!
>
> Nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel. This is one project that
> MUST get done.
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=33761#33761
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Walt,
How can I check out your yahoo site?
Thanks
Jack Textor
www.textors.com
Anytime Glen!,
Glad you had a good time in spite of the gusty conditions.
Ain't Life Grand!!
walt evans
NX140DL
ps I'll post your pics on my yahoo site
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... |
Jack,
Go here,,,
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/joepiet/album?.dir=5f03&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
should work.
Glen should be on top.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects...
>
>
> Walt,
> How can I check out your yahoo site?
> Thanks
> Jack Textor
> www.textors.com
>
>
> Anytime Glen!,
> Glad you had a good time in spite of the gusty conditions.
> Ain't Life Grand!!
> walt evans
> NX140DL
> ps I'll post your pics on my yahoo site
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
I think we all understand that experimental aviation has its risks. If
I use a corvair it is my risk. Perhaps we should let this subject rest?
Ben
Jim Ash wrote:
> Unfortunately, that's a rather fallacious argument. By history, I mean
> real hours spent working in the air, not calendar years since someone
> first tried it.
>
> Jim Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland
> Sent: May 10, 2006 8:13 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification
>
> Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine
> needed a longer track record than that to be considered safe for
> an experimental nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or
> Corvair engines, only the dinosaurs.
>
> Rick H.
>
> On 5/9/06, *Jim Ash* wrote:
>
>
> I owe this list, and William Wynne specifically, an apology.
> The comments I made in my email to this group on 4 May were
> misconstrued as an attack on William and his work. This was
> not my intent, and for this misunderstanding I sincerely
> apologize.
>
> My intent was to impress the point that Corvair engines do not
> have a long and established history in aircraft, and that in
> using one in your own airplane you absolutely need to
> understand everything about what you've done with it, and why,
> in your specific set of circumstances. This also includes
> understanding the risks involved in light of the lack of
> history mentioned above.
>
> Jim Ash
>
> target"_blank" onclick"return
> top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> k"return
> top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com
> lank" onclick"return
> top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
I agree!
The Internet has only been around for 14 years now. Postal letters have been
around for hundreds of years. Although many folks tout the so-called
advantages of email and websites, they simply don't have the track record
that serious communicators demand. In fact, I knew a guy who got the
Internet and joined an email list and within a month, he started to get
messages he didn't like. He sold his computer, and has been happily using
the US Postal Service ever since. You're free to do what you will, but I
don't want to be a guinea pig in some techno-geek's big worldwide social
experiment.
Seriously, this discussion has been annoying me a bit to watch, though it's
nothing new. I do appreciate Jim publicly clarifying that he wasn't trying
to malign William, which is more than usually happens. But some perspective
is in order here.
Obviously, nobody's forcing anyone to use an engine they aren't comfortable
with. I'm personally sold on the Corvair, as I've come to know William and
the Hangar gang well enough that I have faith that they are honest and
straightforward in their dealings and that they are right when they say that
I am capable, with their help, of building a satisfactory Corvair-based
aircraft engine for my personal requirements. I have heard them tell people
both what this motor both can, and cannot, do, and if anything I've seen
them consistently UNDER-sell the capabilities of the Corvair rather than
OVER-state it to try to sell products. In my experience, they've never, ever
encouraged folks to do anything blindly just "because they said so"... they
have always been willing and able to back up their recommendations with
sound reasoning. Most importantly, this is most often based on significant
amounts of actual flight experience, not theoretical calculations or single
tests as some other folks will use to "prove" their products. If they only
have one or two data points, or none, they will make sure you know that
fact. They also have consistently encouraged people to learn and understand
for themselves WHY they recommend to do something, or not.
In my opinion, anyone who says to do something "because William says so" is
missing the point somewhat, but they generally do so because they have found
that he has actually earned the right to be considered an authority on the
subject. This is because he really has tried most of the ideas that people
have asked about, and refined the good ones so that anyone could use them.
While I've heard folks criticize Corvairs before and even pull out some
examples to "prove" their unworthiness, they never seem to mention the
thousands of failures of Lycomings, Continentals, Pratt & Whitneys, etc.
installed by "qualified" folks for comparison. 98% of the "examples" are
things heard from friends of friends, etc. From the folks I've personally
talked to, emailed, and read about who have actually BUILT their own
Corvairs and can thus speak with some authority on the matter, it would seem
that nearly everyone who has followed William's advice has ended up quite
satisfied, if not extremely happy, with their Corvair installation. Most of
the occasional problems I've heard of have been caused by things that
William has specifically and publicly warned against doing, or happened
before he even started his research on the subject. In short, folks who
follow WW's advice tend to have a high chance of success with their Corvair
engines.
I don't "deify" William or anyone else, nor do I have any personal stake in
this discussion other than I consider the Hangar Gang to be friends, who
happen to be "the" experts on the engine I will build in the (hopefully
near) future. However, I can honestly say that the Corvair Hangar Gang, to a
person, set an excellent example of honesty, enthusiasm, helpfulness, and
fun that I wish was present in everyone in aviation. This seems to have
rubbed off on quite a few others (or perhaps it just attracts like-minded
souls) throughout the homebuilt community, who then share their enthusiasm.
I don't know why, but this seemingly attracts the occasional ire of a few
folks who'd rather complain about a subject they rarely seem to have any
first-hand knowledge of. I'm no engine expert myself, but if you ask me,
even if you don't choose to fly a Corvair yourself, you should have a
healthy dose of respect and appreciation for the many positive contributions
that the Corvair folks have made towards furthering recreational aviation.
We need a lot more folks like them in the aviation world.
BTW, most homebuilt companies now require a signed legal release before
selling plans or products. This is simply a factor of today's out of control
legal system, NOT a lack of faith in their own products. It isn't the plans
purchaser they are worried about, but their survivors's lawyers. It doesn't
matter whether the accident really had anything to do with the manufacturer
or not.
-Mike
Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
> > Unfortunately, that's a rather fallacious argument. By history, I mean
> > real hours spent working in the air, not calendar years since someone
> > first tried it.
> >
> > Jim Ash
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rick Holland
> > Sent: May 10, 2006 8:13 AM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology &
clarification
> >
> > Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine
> > needed a longer track record than that to be considered safe for
> > an experimental nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or
> > Corvair engines, only the dinosaurs.
> >
> > Rick H.
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
Mike, hear! hear!
you put it all down very well, throughly and accurately, It would be a honor to
be considered a part of that small (but growing) group of Corvair powered aircraft
advocates. Mean Gene
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
>Sent: May 10, 2006 9:38 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification
>
>
>I agree!
>
>The Internet has only been around for 14 years now. Postal letters have been
>around for hundreds of years. Although many folks tout the so-called
>advantages of email and websites, they simply don't have the track record
>that serious communicators demand. In fact, I knew a guy who got the
>Internet and joined an email list and within a month, he started to get
>messages he didn't like. He sold his computer, and has been happily using
>the US Postal Service ever since. You're free to do what you will, but I
>don't want to be a guinea pig in some techno-geek's big worldwide social
>experiment.
>
>Seriously, this discussion has been annoying me a bit to watch, though it's
>nothing new. I do appreciate Jim publicly clarifying that he wasn't trying
>to malign William, which is more than usually happens. But some perspective
>is in order here.
>
>Obviously, nobody's forcing anyone to use an engine they aren't comfortable
>with. I'm personally sold on the Corvair, as I've come to know William and
>the Hangar gang well enough that I have faith that they are honest and
>straightforward in their dealings and that they are right when they say that
>I am capable, with their help, of building a satisfactory Corvair-based
>aircraft engine for my personal requirements. I have heard them tell people
>both what this motor both can, and cannot, do, and if anything I've seen
>them consistently UNDER-sell the capabilities of the Corvair rather than
>OVER-state it to try to sell products. In my experience, they've never, ever
>encouraged folks to do anything blindly just "because they said so"... they
>have always been willing and able to back up their recommendations with
>sound reasoning. Most importantly, this is most often based on significant
>amounts of actual flight experience, not theoretical calculations or single
>tests as some other folks will use to "prove" their products. If they only
>have one or two data points, or none, they will make sure you know that
>fact. They also have consistently encouraged people to learn and understand
>for themselves WHY they recommend to do something, or not.
>
>In my opinion, anyone who says to do something "because William says so" is
>missing the point somewhat, but they generally do so because they have found
>that he has actually earned the right to be considered an authority on the
>subject. This is because he really has tried most of the ideas that people
>have asked about, and refined the good ones so that anyone could use them.
>
>While I've heard folks criticize Corvairs before and even pull out some
>examples to "prove" their unworthiness, they never seem to mention the
>thousands of failures of Lycomings, Continentals, Pratt & Whitneys, etc.
>installed by "qualified" folks for comparison. 98% of the "examples" are
>things heard from friends of friends, etc. From the folks I've personally
>talked to, emailed, and read about who have actually BUILT their own
>Corvairs and can thus speak with some authority on the matter, it would seem
>that nearly everyone who has followed William's advice has ended up quite
>satisfied, if not extremely happy, with their Corvair installation. Most of
>the occasional problems I've heard of have been caused by things that
>William has specifically and publicly warned against doing, or happened
>before he even started his research on the subject. In short, folks who
>follow WW's advice tend to have a high chance of success with their Corvair
>engines.
>
>I don't "deify" William or anyone else, nor do I have any personal stake in
>this discussion other than I consider the Hangar Gang to be friends, who
>happen to be "the" experts on the engine I will build in the (hopefully
>near) future. However, I can honestly say that the Corvair Hangar Gang, to a
>person, set an excellent example of honesty, enthusiasm, helpfulness, and
>fun that I wish was present in everyone in aviation. This seems to have
>rubbed off on quite a few others (or perhaps it just attracts like-minded
>souls) throughout the homebuilt community, who then share their enthusiasm.
>I don't know why, but this seemingly attracts the occasional ire of a few
>folks who'd rather complain about a subject they rarely seem to have any
>first-hand knowledge of. I'm no engine expert myself, but if you ask me,
>even if you don't choose to fly a Corvair yourself, you should have a
>healthy dose of respect and appreciation for the many positive contributions
>that the Corvair folks have made towards furthering recreational aviation.
>We need a lot more folks like them in the aviation world.
>
>BTW, most homebuilt companies now require a signed legal release before
>selling plans or products. This is simply a factor of today's out of control
>legal system, NOT a lack of faith in their own products. It isn't the plans
>purchaser they are worried about, but their survivors's lawyers. It doesn't
>matter whether the accident really had anything to do with the manufacturer
>or not.
>
>-Mike
>
>Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
>Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
>http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>> > Unfortunately, that's a rather fallacious argument. By history, I mean
>> > real hours spent working in the air, not calendar years since someone
>> > first tried it.
>> >
>> > Jim Ash
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rick Holland
>> > Sent: May 10, 2006 8:13 AM
>> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology &
>clarification
>> >
>> > Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine
>> > needed a longer track record than that to be considered safe for
>> > an experimental nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or
>> > Corvair engines, only the dinosaurs.
>> >
>> > Rick H.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
More Brodhead 2004 folks to I D from my Piet file clearance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: For Builders with Slow/Stalled Projects... |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Walt,
Just looking through your photos and was wondering what the "ARC" logo
on the side of your plane was. Looks "old-timey".
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Guys,
For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following conditions
what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation 1100',
80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this condition
and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb.
Thanks,
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34118#34118
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rate of Climb |
In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time,
EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
Hi Guys,
For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following
conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation
1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this
condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb.
Thanks,
Don Emch
I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about 50 mph, and
live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs, solo, with 20 gal
full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field, turning close to 2000 rpm.
I
suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM, and is never above 300 FPM. My ROC
has improved a little bit, since I reworked my prop, and now I can now get full
rated rpm (2300 rpm), in level flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and
the leading edge of the wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the
bugs wipe off easier !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rate of Climb |
My plane is just under 900lbs loaded as you described, and with my
A-75 I see around 400fpm at ~2,375RPM (full throttle). Probably
closer to 200fpm with a 150lb passenger...that is a little scary to me.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Rcaprd(at)aol.com:
> In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time,
> EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
> Hi Guys,
> For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these following
> conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb? Field elevation
> 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around 900lbs in this
> condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect for climb.
> Thanks,
> Don Emch
> I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about 50 mph, and
> live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs, solo, with 20 gal
> full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field, turning close to
> 2000 rpm. I
> suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM, and is never above 300 FPM. My ROC
> has improved a little bit, since I reworked my prop, and now I can
> now get full
> rated rpm (2300 rpm), in level flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and
> the leading edge of the wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the
> bugs wipe off easier !!
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
> going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rate of Climb |
I'm right in there with Chuck. 18.9 gal and 200 lbs of me puts me at
990 lb. Field at 900 ft. Something arount 300 fpm.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb
In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time,
EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
Hi Guys,
For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these
following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb?
Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right
around 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys
would expect for climb.
Thanks,
Don Emch
I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about 50
mph,and live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs, solo,
with 20 gal full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field, turning
close to 2000 rpm. I suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM, and is
never above 300 FPM. My ROC has improved a little bit, since I reworked
my prop, and now I can now get full rated rpm (2300 rpm), in level
flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and the leading edge of the
wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the bugs wipe off easier
!!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rate of Climb |
The other critical piece of information for comparison is what type of prop
you have on the airplane. Might not be the engine at all but you might need
a different prop to get the most out of the airplane
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb
>
> Hi Guys,
> For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these
> following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb?
> Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right around
> 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys would expect
> for climb.
> Thanks,
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34118#34118
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification |
I just got my manual and it is really good. I think Wynne had done a suburb
job on it.
Corvair-in-the-air!
RS
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Beenenga
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification
Mike, hear! hear!
you put it all down very well, throughly and accurately, It would be a honor
to be considered a part of that small (but growing) group of Corvair powered
aircraft advocates. Mean Gene
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
>Sent: May 10, 2006 9:38 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology & clarification
>
>
>I agree!
>
>The Internet has only been around for 14 years now. Postal letters have
been
>around for hundreds of years. Although many folks tout the so-called
>advantages of email and websites, they simply don't have the track record
>that serious communicators demand. In fact, I knew a guy who got the
>Internet and joined an email list and within a month, he started to get
>messages he didn't like. He sold his computer, and has been happily using
>the US Postal Service ever since. You're free to do what you will, but I
>don't want to be a guinea pig in some techno-geek's big worldwide social
>experiment.
>
>Seriously, this discussion has been annoying me a bit to watch, though it's
>nothing new. I do appreciate Jim publicly clarifying that he wasn't trying
>to malign William, which is more than usually happens. But some perspective
>is in order here.
>
>Obviously, nobody's forcing anyone to use an engine they aren't comfortable
>with. I'm personally sold on the Corvair, as I've come to know William and
>the Hangar gang well enough that I have faith that they are honest and
>straightforward in their dealings and that they are right when they say
that
>I am capable, with their help, of building a satisfactory Corvair-based
>aircraft engine for my personal requirements. I have heard them tell people
>both what this motor both can, and cannot, do, and if anything I've seen
>them consistently UNDER-sell the capabilities of the Corvair rather than
>OVER-state it to try to sell products. In my experience, they've never,
ever
>encouraged folks to do anything blindly just "because they said so"... they
>have always been willing and able to back up their recommendations with
>sound reasoning. Most importantly, this is most often based on significant
>amounts of actual flight experience, not theoretical calculations or single
>tests as some other folks will use to "prove" their products. If they only
>have one or two data points, or none, they will make sure you know that
>fact. They also have consistently encouraged people to learn and understand
>for themselves WHY they recommend to do something, or not.
>
>In my opinion, anyone who says to do something "because William says so" is
>missing the point somewhat, but they generally do so because they have
found
>that he has actually earned the right to be considered an authority on the
>subject. This is because he really has tried most of the ideas that people
>have asked about, and refined the good ones so that anyone could use them.
>
>While I've heard folks criticize Corvairs before and even pull out some
>examples to "prove" their unworthiness, they never seem to mention the
>thousands of failures of Lycomings, Continentals, Pratt & Whitneys, etc.
>installed by "qualified" folks for comparison. 98% of the "examples" are
>things heard from friends of friends, etc. From the folks I've personally
>talked to, emailed, and read about who have actually BUILT their own
>Corvairs and can thus speak with some authority on the matter, it would
seem
>that nearly everyone who has followed William's advice has ended up quite
>satisfied, if not extremely happy, with their Corvair installation. Most of
>the occasional problems I've heard of have been caused by things that
>William has specifically and publicly warned against doing, or happened
>before he even started his research on the subject. In short, folks who
>follow WW's advice tend to have a high chance of success with their Corvair
>engines.
>
>I don't "deify" William or anyone else, nor do I have any personal stake in
>this discussion other than I consider the Hangar Gang to be friends, who
>happen to be "the" experts on the engine I will build in the (hopefully
>near) future. However, I can honestly say that the Corvair Hangar Gang, to
a
>person, set an excellent example of honesty, enthusiasm, helpfulness, and
>fun that I wish was present in everyone in aviation. This seems to have
>rubbed off on quite a few others (or perhaps it just attracts like-minded
>souls) throughout the homebuilt community, who then share their enthusiasm.
>I don't know why, but this seemingly attracts the occasional ire of a few
>folks who'd rather complain about a subject they rarely seem to have any
>first-hand knowledge of. I'm no engine expert myself, but if you ask me,
>even if you don't choose to fly a Corvair yourself, you should have a
>healthy dose of respect and appreciation for the many positive
contributions
>that the Corvair folks have made towards furthering recreational aviation.
>We need a lot more folks like them in the aviation world.
>
>BTW, most homebuilt companies now require a signed legal release before
>selling plans or products. This is simply a factor of today's out of
control
>legal system, NOT a lack of faith in their own products. It isn't the plans
>purchaser they are worried about, but their survivors's lawyers. It doesn't
>matter whether the accident really had anything to do with the manufacturer
>or not.
>
>-Mike
>
>Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net
>Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association
>http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
>
>> > Unfortunately, that's a rather fallacious argument. By history, I mean
>> > real hours spent working in the air, not calendar years since someone
>> > first tried it.
>> >
>> > Jim Ash
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rick Holland
>> > Sent: May 10, 2006 8:13 AM
>> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Flyers / apology &
>clarification
>> >
>> > Corvairs have been flying since 1960. Thats 46 years. If an engine
>> > needed a longer track record than that to be considered safe for
>> > an experimental nobody would be using Rotax, Hirth, HKS, or
>> > Corvair engines, only the dinosaurs.
>> >
>> > Rick H.
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
The prop of choice seems to be 72 X 42;at least that is the one I
gleaned from previous emails and transponding with Tennessee props.About
658.00 Cnd for mine.She's a beauty.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: May 11, 2006 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb
The other critical piece of information for comparison is what type of
prop
you have on the airplane. Might not be the engine at all but you might
need
a different prop to get the most out of the airplane
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb
>
> Hi Guys,
> For those of you running A-65s I have a question for you. In these
> following conditions what would you expect for initial rate of climb?
> Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo. I am right
around
> 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what you guys would
expect
> for climb.
> Thanks,
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Mine's a little heavier. Solo it weighs about 1,000 lbs. Climbs at 300
fpm (I have a VSI). With a 160 lb passenger added it climbs at about
250 fpm.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb
I'm right in there with Chuck. 18.9 gal and 200 lbs of me puts me at
990 lb. Field at 900 ft. Something arount 300 fpm.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rate of Climb
In a message dated 5/11/2006 4:25:57 PM Central Standard Time,
EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
Hi Guys,
For those of you running A-65s I have a question for
you. In these following conditions what would you expect for initial
rate of climb? Field elevation 1100', 80 degrees, full fuel, and solo.
I am right around 900lbs in this condition and am just wondering what
you guys would expect for climb.
Thanks,
Don Emch
I haven't got a ROC instrument, so I just put the ASI on about
50 mph,and live with whatever the rate of climb is. I am at 960 lbs,
solo, with 20 gal full fuel, field elevation is 1360' at Cook Field,
turning close to 2000 rpm. I suspect it is somewhere around 200 FPM,
and is never above 300 FPM. My ROC has improved a little bit, since I
reworked my prop, and now I can now get full rated rpm (2300 rpm), in
level flight, full throttle. If I wax the prop and the leading edge of
the wing, in my mind, I get better performance, and the bugs wipe off
easier !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
going out to 'whack some bugs' this evening !!
Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm)
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com |
Does anyone have there build times broken down by section that they would
like to share? I'm curious about how long it takes for the fuselage, wing,
empennage, gear, covering, etc. Thanks
Boyce
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Boyce: I find build times are kind of irreverent. Building my center
section seemed to go on and on for ever, and ever. When I framed up a
wing it went so fast that I thought I could have both done in a month,
Then I got into the small details which slowed things WAY down. It took
about a month to build that one wing, and it was spread out over two
summers. My whole project was to be a 2 year thing, I'm into year 8!
Bottom line..don't sweat time, just get started and keep plugging away.
I'm glad I didn't try to build to a time schedule. I would be building
an imaginary Piet in a padded cell some whare. Leon S.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rate of Climb |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Thank you guys very much for all the rate of climb info that you shared. I timed
(no vsi) my climbouts the other night and got to wondering what others were
seeing. I am spinning a Hegy 72 X 44 prop. I seemed to be timing about 350
fpm. I notice a real difference between 45 degrees and 80 degrees. I've noticed
a difference in everything else I've flown but the Piet seems to be fairly
sensitive to temps. It was a little breezy the other night and the Piet seems
to be sensitve to that too. I'm sure it's just me not really used to flying
something so light. Just a ball of fun to fly though!!! :D
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34327#34327
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
First picture;
Bob ? - sitting on left
Larry Williams - sitting on left with white t-shirt
Jim Kinsella - sitting on right with white t-shirt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=34329#34329
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders and CG |
Pieters,
Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders. Mine
are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new ones are
aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the best and what
are the cost.
Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how does it
fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes. Ken in rainy
Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders and CG |
Ken,
Re CG, as you burn off fuel the Cg will be moving back with you in the
plane. Even a traditional NACA wing does not allow over 32% aft cg.
The Piete wing as designed doesn't allow that far aft without mucho
problems with needed lift from the tail feathers, and loss of control.
highly recommend a) cut back on the big Mac's (my problem), b) add some
lead to the engine compartment if your gross weight is ok with added
lead. Aft CG dangerous place to be. I designed my Piete with an 0-235
extended forward and battery forward of empty cg and still need to be
sure not to fly with less than 5 gal of fuel so not to go beyond 32% of
chord. My Piete has Aeronca wings, more forgiving than original Piete
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG
Pieters,
Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders.
Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new
ones are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the
best and what are the cost.
Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how
does it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes.
Ken in rainy Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders and CG |
Chroming was a way to go for a while, but it seemed to have some
problems. I would check with Superior Aircraft as they have cylinders
for nearly every engine that was ever built. They would probably
overhaul yours of have an exchange set waiting to ship to you.
The worst engine problem I ever experienced was due to a broken rocker
box in a Cont 0 200 (Guys trust me they don't run well on 2 cylinders,
but it ran) and it was replaced with a Superior cylinder. That section
had been greatly beefed up and was much stronger than what came from the
factory.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG
Pieters,
Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders.
Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new
ones are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the
best and what are the cost.
Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how
does it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes.
Ken in rainy Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pietflyr" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders and CG |
When I built my A65, my cylinders were worn to the limits. I looked into
having them chromed and rebuilt. Cost was $550 per cylinder. Then I looked
at Superior's Millenium cylinders which were $800 per cylinder, but you got
new pistons, new rings, new valves, new valve springs, new valve seats, new
rocker shafts and new piston pins. With the rebuild you have the
questionable durability of the chrome, plus everything is still 60+ years
old. I bought the Millemium cylinders.
An added benefit was the increased accuracy of their casting process for the
pistons. I weighed all reciprocating components to get the engine mass
balanced as well as possible. All four of the new pistons were within 1
gram of each other. The original pistons varied by as much as 10 grams.
The engine runs extremely smoothly.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark
Blackwell
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 11:39 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG
Chroming was a way to go for a while, but it seemed to have some problems.
I would check with Superior Aircraft as they have cylinders for nearly every
engine that was ever built. They would probably overhaul yours of have an
exchange set waiting to ship to you.
The worst engine problem I ever experienced was due to a broken rocker box
in a Cont 0 200 (Guys trust me they don't run well on 2 cylinders, but it
ran) and it was replaced with a Superior cylinder. That section had been
greatly beefed up and was much stronger than what came from the factory.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cylinders and CG
Pieters,
Does anyone have any experience with croming 65 cont cylinders.
Mine are .015 over and pretty much to the limits and I wonder if new ones
are aviable, if crome is the best way to go and which type is the best and
what are the cost.
Also is anyone flying around with the cg at 30 percent and how does
it fly. I could lose some weight but you know how that goes. Ken in
rainy Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Members in Alaska |
If there are any members in Alaska please contact me off list.
Thanks,
Greg Cardinal
gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
Cc:
| Subject: | Re: Members in Alaska |
Greg,
As a proud Alaskan, think the list should know there's at least two of
us in AK basking in the glory. Where it's always 70 and sunny. You
southern tourist need to ignore the high cost of gasoline and come on
up!!!!!!!!!!, we need the revenue.
Gordon Bowen
Homer
----- Original Message -----
April 25, 2006 - May 13, 2006
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fb