Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fe
June 20, 2006 - June 30, 2006
in an aircraft without radios running into me.
NOT
Unfortunately, I can't make it to Brodhead (or the other Wisconsin
fly-in) this year. I am having a blast flying the Pietenpol, though.
Just got married and about to leave on a honeymoon, and can't afford to
do that and get to Wisconsin. I did suggest a honeymoon sleeping under
the stars in Wisconsin, but that didn't set too well.
Since my new bride has agreed to start building an RV-10 with me as soon
as we get back, I can't complain too much. She has also agreed that we
must always keep the Pietenpol for fun flying, no matter what kind of
fast spam can we have for travelling. Now all I've got to do is figure
out how to convince her that we need to keep the Pietenpol, the RV-4 and
the RV-10. I'm afraid the RV-4 will have to go, so we can afford to
finish the RV-10. I'll miss the aerobatics in the -4.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:12 AM
!
Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
get
the lead out and get
fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
doesn't
stop me from shaking you up
once in a while)
Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
by
car, boat, or plane--who is
going to be there ?
Mike C. in Ohio
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
Cinda and I will be there, maybe Gary Barger also. Will take a few days off
building the retirement dream hangar home and drive.
I am looking for a used Piet or GN-1 to buy Corvair or Continental. I need
an open cockpit plane to fly while I complete mine, started building 1990
and hope to get it completed 2011.
Please contact me off list.
Skip, in beautiful WV
> [Original Message]
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
by
> car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier |
I'm flying (after a week long training session in Boston) into Chicago late
Friday night. I'll stay in Rockford Friday night then early Saturday
morning I'll drive up to Brodhead for the day...
Not too happy to be missing the other days but I'll take what I can get!
I'm SURE looking forward to it!!!
Jim in Adair, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
| Subject: | role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
My S-A will be there Friday and depart for OSH Sunday. Will be driving
and tenting. Look forward to meeting all!
Jack Textor
Des Moines
Tail and ribs DONE, spars started
Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
get
the lead out and get
fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
doesn't
stop me from shaking you up
once in a while)
Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
by
car, boat, or plane--who is
going to be there ?
Mike C. in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
I will be there Mike. Will have a car so if anybody flying in needs a ride
into town or want me to make a beer run or something just let me know.
Rick H.
On 6/20/06, Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
> get
> the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
> by
> car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
I will drive up on Friday and Saturday, seeing as I only live 40 miles away
(Poplar Grove Illinois). I need to get smart on all the options available
for the Ford A.
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris cummins <cccstandard(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
I will be there.
Won't be flying the Piet up this year. Don't have my 40 hours flown off yet,
but I plan on flying my Chief this year.
Chris Cummins
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
okay---now you guys are COOKING ! You ARE alive out there !
Good to hear from lots of you guys and those yet to respond. I'm sorry
the newlywed Jack
won't be there but he showed up in grand style last year in his pretty
green and cream Icarus Phillips, er Plummet.
I got beat up so bad in turbulence and nasty crosswind 93 F landings last
year that I'm driving up in nice a/c in
my car if I can. Will try to camp with John H. from the list and harass
whoever I can on foot Saturday late afternoon and
Sat. eve. I hope Don E. from this area can fly his Piet up. He's
really been at it for a long, long time and as
you all can see from his pics and posts---nice job.
Maybe this year I'll remember that you have to buy your Saturday night pork
chop dinner tickets AHEAD of time
at Brodhead. Chuckie G. and I almost got shutout from the eats last
year since we were oblivious to the numerous
announcements about getting your tickets earlier in the day.
And that Jim Markle from Oklahoma now is going to take some getting used
to. It was always Jim Markle from Texas.
The guy is a Clark Gable look-alike, I swear.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | role call ? Attention Gantzer,Markle...Javier |
I will be there, though I won't be able to fly the Piet. I was only
able to partially solve the fuel tank problem. Again, I appreciate
everyone's suggestions and I apologize for being a whiny baby about
the costs associated with what I think is the best solution - a new
aluminum tank!
I'd love to catch a ride in a couple of Piets to see how mine
compares in terms of handling. Hint hint... ;)
Jeff
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer,Markle...Javier |
I will be there, though I won't be able to fly the Piet. I was only
able to partially solve the fuel tank problem. Again, I appreciate
everyone's suggestions and I apologize for being a whiny baby about
the costs associated with what I think is the best solution - a new
aluminum tank!
I'd love to catch a ride in a couple of Piets to see how mine
compares in terms of handling. Hint hint... ;)
Jeff
>
>
>
>Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately.
>Let's get the lead out and get
>fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
>doesn't stop me from shaking you up
>once in a while)
>
>Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't
>care by car, boat, or plane--who is
>going to be there ?
>
>Mike C. in Ohio
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
I plan on flying my Tripacer in from Porter Co, IN (VPZ). A short 1 hour
hop, either Frday afternoon or early Saturday morining. Looking forward to
seeing everyone again.
The following week I plan on going to Oshkosh for a few days. Will spend
some time in the fly mart scrounging parts.
Rick (learning to weld his Piet) Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
> To:
> Date: 6/20/2006 8:19:43 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier !
>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
get
> the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
by
> car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
Rick,
Plan on being at the Oshkosh Aeromart very early on Monday to get in line
for the opening. It opens at 8:00 am but they start lining up at about 6.
They only let a maybe 50 people in at a time. I will be there at 6 myself. It
is a treasure trove of cool stuff of every conceivable nature. I bought some
cool old instruments last year. It gets picked over very quickly.
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
I'm coming down for sure, the only question is whether to fly the Piet or
trailer down my new radial project to show. The engine is running now.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:11 AM
>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
> get the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
> by car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com> |
The Brodhead dates are Fri Jul 21-- Sun Jul 23.
I plan to drive up and get there as early as possible on Friday. I will have
a car for errands, supplies, beer runs, etc. I will be camping there on Friday
night, but will likely move to a motel in Rockford on Saturday, for I am meeting
an old friend from Chicago who says his 75-yr.-old back doesn't do air matresses
any longer.
That's my plan for now.
Chuck Gantzer told me he was likely going up Thursday to get settled in.
Oscar has told me he cannot go this year.
Corky, are you thinking of going? I'll have the scotch this time.
I look forward to meeting you all.
Tim
.
Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-06-19.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-06-19.txt
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/19/06: 13
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Engine selection (Phillips, Jack)
2. 06:07 AM - GN-1 Gap Seals (Mike King)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: Engine selection (Bill Church)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: Engine selection (Phillips, Jack)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
7. 11:08 AM - Re: Engine selection (Steve Eldredge)
8. 11:57 AM - Engine selection (HelsperSew(at)aol.com)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: Engine selection (KMHeide)
10. 06:58 PM - Re: Engine selection (Dick Navratil)
11. 07:07 PM - radial eng chopper (Dick Navratil)
12. 07:16 PM - Re: Covering (Peter W Johnson)
13. 08:14 PM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
As always, Graham posted an outstanding reply. I concur with everything he said.
My Pietenpol has an A65, and it is adequate for solo flying. For carrying
passengers on a hot day, unless you have a long runway or VERY clear approaches
at your field, it can cause a bit of sphincter-clinch on takeoff. It also
cannot cope with much of a downdraft. I'll never forget flying it across West
Virginia last year on the way to Brodhead. I was at 4,000' and trying to climb
over a 4400' ridge, climbing at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in
a downdraft.
Yesterday I took my EAA Flight Advisor up in mine. He weighs 205 (I weigh 195)
and we had a full tank of fuel (90 lbs). Adding all that to my 745 lb empty
weight, and we were at 1235 lbs. - a heavy load indeed. OAT was 91 F, and density
altitude was about 2500'. Fortunately I had enough sense to not try this
from the 2,000' strip with 120' trees at the end where I base the plane. We
flew out of Sanford, NC (TTA) where the runway is 6500' long with unobstructed
approaches for at least mile on either end of the runway. Takeoff was impressive
- we were off the ground in about 600'. Climbout was less impressive, but
still acceptable at 150 fpm. He loved the airplane (other than its climb rate).
BTW at that weight, stall speed was 42 mph indicated.
If I had it to do over again, I would put a C-85 in it. Or fly from longer airstrips.
If I had tried yesterday's flight from my home field, we would have impacted
the trees at the end about 70 feet below the treetops. If I were to build
another one, I might seriously look at adding 4 feet to the wingspan, which
would add about 25 lbs to the weight, but would add 20 sq. ft to the wing area.
One other note on a topic that has been discussed recently - yesterday I sealed
the gaps between my elevators and horizontal stabilizer with duct tape. I found
a slight improvement in time to raise the tail on takeoff, and about a 2 mph
improvement in cruise speed. I also found that it changed the trim of the
airplane. Before this change I could trim the plane to fly hands off using my
spring trim system. Now even with full nose up trim it still tends to nose down
slightly, indicating that the tail is providing more lift than before.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:36 PM
Ken Heide,
Our elevation here in central Alberta, Canada is about 2500' msl which is quite
a bit higher than yours in Fargo, ND.
For the first couple of years, my Pietenpol was powered by an A65 Continental.
Its performance was adequate when flying solo, but the climb rate was sluggish
with an adult passenger aboard on a hot day. In cruise with a load, one had to
work the A65 pretty hard to maintain altitude; there was little power in reserve
to deal with downdrafts.
Then I obtained a C85 and the difference was dramatic, to say the least. With only
a slight weight increase, power was increased by nearly 31%! The most significant
improvement was in the climb rate, and the cruise speed increased by about
7-8 mph. The takeoff run was shortened, but not by much; even with the A65,
the a/c had always seemed to perform well within ground effect. Nowadays, I
have power in reserve to climb over obstacles and cope with downdrafts.
When the Pietenpol was designed, people were smaller and lighter. We tend to forget
that the Pietenpol is a small airplane when compared to Taylorcrafts, Cubs
and Aeroncas with the same power. Typically, these airplanes have a wingspan
of 35 - 36 feet with a wing area of 175 - 180 square feet versus the Pietenpol's
29 foot span and about 145 square feet.Their aspect ratio is around seven
compared to the Pietenpol's 5.8, making them much better gliders than the Pietenpol.
When one considers that all these airplanes essentially were designed around
smaller people, they do rather well hauling a couple of 200(+) pounders
these days. If we all weighed perhaps 150 to 170 pounds, our little airplanes
would perform much better because that is close to what they were designed to
carry.
However, we have to face the fact that people are bigger and heavier these days--and
the airplanes we love are not any larger. About all we can do is keep them
(and us) as light as possible and increase the available power (without adding
too much weight, of course).
In my experience, the Continental C85-8 engine is about the optimum engine for
the Pietenpol. It is only slightly heavier than the A65-8 and provides the same
clearance between the magnetos and the firewall. I have a C85-12 in my Pietenpol
and it is a bit heavier than the -8 version because of the rear accessory
case, which makes for a tight fit between the magnetos and the firewall. (A longer
engine mount would cure this problem, but I don't wish to build new cowlings,
etc.)
If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will work fine
for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never designed to do.
Having the optimum engine/ propeller combination is extremely important. I
have yet to find the very best propeller for mine--either with the A65 or the
C85 engines. If you are lucky, you may find a custom propeller that is close to
ideal for your airplane, but a fixed pitch propeller is always a compromise
and one usually has to try out a lot of different ones. Off-the-shelf certified
propellers will work, but they may not be the best for your setup.
As always, it is best to improve efficiency before simply adding power. If I were
to build another Pietenpol, I would work hard to keep it as light as possible
in order to fly well with modest power.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
BlankSay guys, I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to pla
ns.
That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this
talk
about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planes
were built.
I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slight
ly
nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
months.
As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/5b25ada24a7f9f2360c3efe68e69728914bc3920.gif
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
In Graham's words:
"If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will
work fine for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never
designed to do. ... If I were to build another Pietenpol, I would work
hard to keep it as light as possible in order to fly well with modest
power.".
On Saturday I spent the day at the Brussels, Ontario 17th Annual
Pietenpol gathering at Armstrong's field. I spoke a bit with Brian
Kenney, whose C-FAUK has been flying for 19 years behind a 65HP
Continental. He says he has no problem carrying 200(+)lb passengers. But
he emphasized the importance of keeping the weight of the plane down as
much as possible. I believe he said his empty weight was 587lb - so it
is possible to build lighter if we really make the effort.
As for the fly-in, it was a beautiful sunny day, with unfortunately a
strong breeze that kept the Air Campers camping (on the ground). But
there were 5 Piets (and 3 Tiger Moths) to look at and snap pictures of
and talk to owners and builders about. Our host, Jim Armstrong has been
flying his Piet out of his strip for 39 years. He even used to fly it to
school regularly for 24 years (where he was a teacher). He told me he
has about 1000 hrs on his 65HP Air Camper, which still has the original
covering (Irish Linen on the wings, Grade A cotton on the tail, and
Dacron on the fuselage). He and his son have just completed their second
Piet, which is almost identical to the first (85HP, all Dacron
covering). The second one took 30 years to complete - started as a
teenage father-son project, then got set aside for awhile, then got
resurrected and completed. Really nice finishing on this plane. Jim said
it was his first attempt at covering an entire plane, and he took great
care to ensure all the tapes were straight and neat, and he was pleased
with the results.
I took a bunch of photos, but won't get access to them to download for
about a week. As soon as I get them, I'll post a few to share.
Now I'm stoked to get building again, just like after Brodhead (which is
only five weeks away).
Bill C.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
My thanks to all that are discussing the Pietenpol and the A65. I'm just in
the act of buying one and will be flying it from the Georgia/Florida line to
Western Tennessee. Your discussion has been helpful and gives me some idea
what I'm in for. I'm really looking forward to the plane and the trip but
I'm more use to 1700' a minute rather than 600 or 700' a minute. It will
take a little getting use to but I'm excited to fly the Pietenpol. I'm not
in a hurry and I'm sure it will make me a better pilot.
Any advise from you guys and gals would be very appreciated.
Thank You
Gene
Pietenpol N502R
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:55 AM
>
>
> As always, Graham posted an outstanding reply. I concur with everything
> he said. My Pietenpol has an A65, and it is adequate for solo flying.
> For carrying passengers on a hot day, unless you have a long runway or
> VERY clear approaches at your field, it can cause a bit of
> sphincter-clinch on takeoff. It also cannot cope with much of a
> downdraft. I'll never forget flying it across West Virginia last year on
> the way to Brodhead. I was at 4,000' and trying to climb over a 4400'
> ridge, climbing at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a
> downdraft.
>
>
> Yesterday I took my EAA Flight Advisor up in mine. He weighs 205 (I weigh
> 195) and we had a full tank of fuel (90 lbs). Adding all that to my 745
> lb empty weight, and we were at 1235 lbs. - a heavy load indeed. OAT was
> 91 F, and density altitude was about 2500'. Fortunately I had enough
> sense to not try this from the 2,000' strip with 120' trees at the end
> where I base the plane. We flew out of Sanford, NC (TTA) where the runway
> is 6500' long with unobstructed approaches for at least mile on either
> end of the runway. Takeoff was impressive - we were off the ground in
> about 600'. Climbout was less impressive, but still acceptable at 150 fpm.
> He loved the airplane (other than its climb rate). BTW at that weight,
> stall speed was 42 mph indicated.
>
>
> If I had it to do over again, I would put a C-85 in it. Or fly from
> longer airstrips. If I had tried yesterday's flight from my home field, we
> would have impacted the trees at the end about 70 feet below the treetops.
> If I were to build another one, I might seriously look at adding 4 feet to
> the wingspan, which would add about 25 lbs to the weight, but would add 20
> sq. ft to the wing area.
>
>
> One other note on a topic that has been discussed recently - yesterday I
> sealed the gaps between my elevators and horizontal stabilizer with duct
> tape. I found a slight improvement in time to raise the tail on takeoff,
> and about a 2 mph improvement in cruise speed. I also found that it
> changed the trim of the airplane. Before this change I could trim the
> plane to fly hands off using my spring trim system. Now even with full
> nose up trim it still tends to nose down slightly, indicating that the
> tail is providing more lift than before.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:36 PM
>
>
> Ken Heide,
>
>
> Our elevation here in central Alberta, Canada is about 2500' msl which is
> quite a bit higher than yours in Fargo, ND.
>
>
> For the first couple of years, my Pietenpol was powered by an A65
> Continental. Its performance was adequate when flying solo, but the climb
> rate was sluggish with an adult passenger aboard on a hot day. In cruise
> with a load, one had to work the A65 pretty hard to maintain altitude;
> there was little power in reserve to deal with downdrafts.
>
>
> Then I obtained a C85 and the difference was dramatic, to say the least.
> With only a slight weight increase, power was increased by nearly 31%! The
> most significant improvement was in the climb rate, and the cruise speed
> increased by about 7-8 mph. The takeoff run was shortened, but not by
> much; even with the A65, the a/c had always seemed to perform well within
> ground effect. Nowadays, I have power in reserve to climb over obstacles
> and cope with downdrafts.
>
>
> When the Pietenpol was designed, people were smaller and lighter. We tend
> to forget that the Pietenpol is a small airplane when compared to
> Taylorcrafts, Cubs and Aeroncas with the same power. Typically, these
> airplanes have a wingspan of 35 - 36 feet with a wing area of 175 - 180
> square feet versus the Pietenpol's 29 foot span and about 145 square
> feet.Their aspect ratio is around seven compared to the Pietenpol's 5.8,
> making them much better gliders than the Pietenpol. When one considers
> that all these airplanes essentially were designed around smaller people,
> they do rather well hauling a couple of 200(+) pounders these days. If we
> all weighed perhaps 150 to 170 pounds, our little airplanes would perform
> much better because that is close to what they were designed to carry.
>
>
> However, we have to face the fact that people are bigger and heavier these
> days--and the airplanes we love are not any larger. About all we can do is
> keep them (and us) as light as possible and increase the available power
> (without adding too much weight, of course).
>
>
> In my experience, the Continental C85-8 engine is about the optimum engine
> for the Pietenpol. It is only slightly heavier than the A65-8 and provides
> the same clearance between the magnetos and the firewall. I have a C85-12
> in my Pietenpol and it is a bit heavier than the -8 version because of the
> rear accessory case, which makes for a tight fit between the magnetos and
> the firewall. (A longer engine mount would cure this problem, but I don't
> wish to build new cowlings, etc.)
>
>
> If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will
> work fine for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never
> designed to do. Having the optimum engine/ propeller combination is
> extremely important. I have yet to find the very best propeller for
> mine--either with the A65 or the C85 engines. If you are lucky, you may
> find a custom propeller that is close to ideal for your airplane, but a
> fixed pitch propeller is always a compromise and one usually has to try
> out a lot of different ones. Off-the-shelf certified propellers will work,
> but they may not be the best for your setup.
>
>
> As always, it is best to improve efficiency before simply adding power. If
> I were to build another Pietenpol, I would work hard to keep it as light
> as possible in order to fly well with modest power.
>
>
> Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
> privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
> received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Gene,
Where in West Tennessee are you going? I'm from Jackson, TN (MKL)
originally and flew my Pietenpol there from Oshkosh last summer, after
attending the real fly-in at Brodhead. I understand there is a
Pietenpol under construction in Lexington, east of Jackson.
On the way home from Jackson to Raleigh, I landed at Pulaski, TN, and
=== message truncated ==
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/20/2006 12:23:18 PM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
I got beat up so bad in turbulence and nasty crosswind 93 F landings last
year that I'm driving up in nice a/c in
my car if I can.
Wow !! Talk about a sissy boy !! Waddya mean, turbulence...that's what
seat belt harnesses are for...so ya don't get bounced outa the plane !! It
just ain't fair that your driving up in a/c !!
Yes, of course I'll be there. I'll have a handful of my DVD video's with
me, and maybe even some of the 'Building NX770CG' video. This is the fourth
summer in a row to Brodhead for me. I'm probably going to arrive on Thursday,
and from Brodhead (Saturday or Sunday) I'm heading west to South Dakota to
the Badlands, Mount Rushmore, Chief Crazy Horse, Sturges and Wall Drug. I'm
trying to persuade Sterling B. to accompany me on this leg, in his spam can.
I'm going to try something new this year for my passengers. I now have a
working intercom, and I'm going to install the controls in the front pit.
This will give folks some hands on experience with how she handles. Anyone
wanna give 'er a try ??? Ya just gotta promise you won't kill me...
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
http://nx770cg.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
You guys are great! Just what I needed! Between your comments and Jack
Phillips sending photos of his last trip, I can't stand it any more and have
left a message with the seller to see if I can pick the plane up a few days
earlier. If anyone is interested in seeing the plane you can go to
Barnstormers.com and see it under experimental, "Pietenpol".
I won't be able to make the fly-in but sure hope some of you will take lots
of photo's.
If the owner can and the weather holds, I will move the fly date from the
27th to the 22nd. I'll keep ya posted.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:34 AM
!
>
>
> Not me. I've decided to sell my Pietenpol (too slow, too noisy, too
> drafty, no fun) and buy a REAL airplane - a Cessna 172. Then I will
> feel safe, flying only from controlled fields and always under an
> instrument flight plan so I don't have to worry about some foolish pilot
> in an aircraft without radios running into me.
>
> NOT
>
> Unfortunately, I can't make it to Brodhead (or the other Wisconsin
> fly-in) this year. I am having a blast flying the Pietenpol, though.
> Just got married and about to leave on a honeymoon, and can't afford to
> do that and get to Wisconsin. I did suggest a honeymoon sleeping under
> the stars in Wisconsin, but that didn't set too well.
>
> Since my new bride has agreed to start building an RV-10 with me as soon
> as we get back, I can't complain too much. She has also agreed that we
> must always keep the Pietenpol for fun flying, no matter what kind of
> fast spam can we have for travelling. Now all I've got to do is figure
> out how to convince her that we need to keep the Pietenpol, the RV-4 and
> the RV-10. I'm afraid the RV-4 will have to go, so we can afford to
> finish the RV-10. I'll miss the aerobatics in the -4.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
> D Cuy
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:12 AM
> !
>
>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
> get
> the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
> doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
> by
> car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
I may be able to make it there in the future but not this year.Where is
Brodhead;coordinance for GPS please and map reference,thanks.I feel like
I know half you guys but I'd like some day to put a face to the name.I
think the idea is to land at the closest airfield and report your
arrival in the States if your coming from Canada and if I'm not mistaken
you have to stay in the plane until cleared by officials.Plus having to
have all the correct paapers.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: June 20, 2006 10:29 AM
Markle...Javier !
I will be there Mike. Will have a car so if anybody flying in needs a
ride
into town or want me to make a beer run or something just let me know.
Rick H.
On 6/20/06, Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately.
Let's
> get
> the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't
care
> by
> car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
Dale and I plan to be there with NX18235.
Looking forward to the trip.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:11 AM
>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately. Let's
> get the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't care
> by car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
Have fun wading through this stuff Harvey. :-)
http://www.b4.ca/raa_85/download/border.pdf
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/020607_5131.html
http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/security/waivers/
Cliff
>
> I may be able to make it there in the future but not this year.Where is
> Brodhead;coordinance for GPS please and map reference,thanks.I feel like
> I know half you guys but I'd like some day to put a face to the name.I
> think the idea is to land at the closest airfield and report your
> arrival in the States if your coming from Canada and if I'm not mistaken
> you have to stay in the plane until cleared by officials.Plus having to
> have all the correct paapers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
One more Harv !
Clif
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Chuck, please put my name on a build video, ride too!
Thanks,
Jack Textor
Driving from Des Moines
Yes, of course I'll be there. I'll have a handful of my DVD video's
with
me, and maybe even some of the 'Building NX770CG' video. This is the
fourth
summer in a row to Brodhead for me. I'm probably going to arrive on
Thursday,
and from Brodhead (Saturday or Sunday) I'm heading west to South Dakota
to
the Badlands, Mount Rushmore, Chief Crazy Horse, Sturges and Wall Drug.
I'm
trying to persuade Sterling B. to accompany me on this leg, in his spam
can.
I'm going to try something new this year for my passengers. I now
have a
working intercom, and I'm going to install the controls in the front
pit.
This will give folks some hands on experience with how she handles.
Anyone
wanna give 'er a try ??? Ya just gotta promise you won't kill me...
Chuck Gantzer
Wichita, KS
NX770CG
http://nx770cg.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2006 Brodhead Roll Call |
I'll be there again this year. The dates are July 21-23, correct?
Have got my fuselage complete, all tail pieces built -- just need to install Vi
Kapler's hinges. The wing ribs are complete (Okay, I cheated -- ribs by the late
Charlie Rubeck. Sure will miss visiting with Charlie this year) and am now
working on the landing gear.
Looking forward to it -- only 30 days to go!
Fred "The Big Muffin" Beseler
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
How far is it from Rockford to Broadhead? I am gathering some thoughts on how to
combine business with passion and really need to see examples and continue the
prebuild research.
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
The Brodhead dates are Fri Jul 21-- Sun Jul 23.
I plan to drive up and get there as early as possible on Friday. I will have
a car for errands, supplies, beer runs, etc. I will be camping there on Friday
night, but will likely move to a motel in Rockford on Saturday, for I am meeting
an old friend from Chicago who says his 75-yr.-old back doesn't do air matresses
any longer.
That's my plan for now.
Chuck Gantzer told me he was likely going up Thursday to get settled in.
Oscar has told me he cannot go this year.
Corky, are you thinking of going? I'll have the scotch this time.
I look forward to meeting you all.
Tim
.
Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-06-19.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-06-19.txt
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/19/06: 13
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Engine selection (Phillips, Jack)
2. 06:07 AM - GN-1 Gap Seals (Mike King)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: Engine selection (Bill Church)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: Engine selection (Phillips, Jack)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
7. 11:08 AM - Re: Engine selection (Steve Eldredge)
8. 11:57 AM - Engine selection (HelsperSew(at)aol.com)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: Engine selection (KMHeide)
10. 06:58 PM - Re: Engine selection (Dick Navratil)
11. 07:07 PM - radial eng chopper (Dick Navratil)
12. 07:16 PM - Re: Covering (Peter W Johnson)
13. 08:14 PM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
As always, Graham posted an outstanding reply. I concur with everything he said.
My Pietenpol has an A65, and it is adequate for solo flying. For carrying
passengers on a hot day, unless you have a long runway or VERY clear approaches
at your field, it can cause a bit of sphincter-clinch on takeoff. It also
cannot cope with much of a downdraft. I'll never forget flying it across West
Virginia last year on the way to Brodhead. I was at 4,000' and trying to climb
over a 4400' ridge, climbing at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in
a downdraft.
Yesterday I took my EAA Flight Advisor up in mine. He weighs 205 (I weigh 195)
and we had a full tank of fuel (90 lbs). Adding all that to my 745 lb empty
weight, and we were at 1235 lbs. - a heavy load indeed. OAT was 91 F, and
density
altitude was about 2500'. Fortunately I had enough sense to not try this
from the 2,000' strip with 120' trees at the end where I base the plane. We
flew out of Sanford, NC (TTA) where the runway is 6500' long with unobstructed
approaches for at least mile on either end of the runway. Takeoff was impressive
- we were off the ground in about 600'. Climbout was less impressive, but
still acceptable at 150 fpm. He loved the airplane (other than its climb rate).
BTW at that weight, stall speed was 42 mph indicated.
If I had it to do over again, I would put a C-85 in it. Or fly from longer
airstrips.
If I had tried yesterday's flight from my home field, we would have impacted
the trees at the end about 70 feet below the treetops. If I were to build
another one, I might seriously look at adding 4 feet to the wingspan, which
would add about 25 lbs to the weight, but would add 20 sq. ft to the wing area.
One other note on a topic that has been discussed recently - yesterday I sealed
the gaps between my elevators and horizontal stabilizer with duct tape. I found
a slight improvement in time to raise the tail on takeoff, and about a 2 mph
improvement in cruise speed. I also found that it changed the trim of the
airplane. Before this change I could trim the plane to fly hands off using my
spring trim system. Now even with full nose up trim it still tends to nose down
slightly, indicating that the tail is providing more lift than before.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:36 PM
Ken Heide,
Our elevation here in central Alberta, Canada is about 2500' msl which is quite
a bit higher than yours in Fargo, ND.
For the first couple of years, my Pietenpol was powered by an A65 Continental.
Its performance was adequate when flying solo, but the climb rate was sluggish
with an adult passenger aboard on a hot day. In cruise with a load, one had to
work the A65 pretty hard to maintain altitude; there was little power in reserve
to deal with downdrafts.
Then I obtained a C85 and the difference was dramatic, to say the least. With
only
a slight weight increase, power was increased by nearly 31%! The most
significant
improvement was in the climb rate, and the cruise speed increased by about
7-8 mph. The takeoff run was shortened, but not by much; even with the A65,
the a/c had always seemed to perform well within ground effect. Nowadays, I
have power in reserve to climb over obstacles and cope with downdrafts.
When the Pietenpol was designed, people were smaller and lighter. We tend to
forget
that the Pietenpol is a small airplane when compared to Taylorcrafts, Cubs
and Aeroncas with the same power. Typically, these airplanes have a wingspan
of 35 - 36 feet with a wing area of 175 - 180 square feet versus the Pietenpol's
29 foot span and about 145 square feet.Their aspect ratio is around seven
compared to the Pietenpol's 5.8, making them much better gliders than the
Pietenpol.
When one considers that all these airplanes essentially were designed around
smaller people, they do rather well hauling a couple of 200(+) pounders
these days. If we all weighed perhaps 150 to 170 pounds, our little airplanes
would perform much better because that is close to what they were designed to
carry.
However, we have to face the fact that people are bigger and heavier these
days--and
the airplanes we love are not any larger. About all we can do is keep them
(and us) as light as possible and increase the available power (without adding
too much weight, of course).
In my experience, the Continental C85-8 engine is about the optimum engine for
the Pietenpol. It is only slightly heavier than the A65-8 and provides the same
clearance between the magnetos and the firewall. I have a C85-12 in my Pietenpol
and it is a bit heavier than the -8 version because of the rear accessory
case, which makes for a tight fit between the magnetos and the firewall. (A
longer
engine mount would cure this problem, but I don't wish to build new cowlings,
etc.)
If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will work
fine
for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never designed to do.
Having the optimum engine/ propeller combination is extremely important. I
have yet to find the very best propeller for mine--either with the A65 or the
C85 engines. If you are lucky, you may find a custom propeller that is close to
ideal for your airplane, but a fixed pitch propeller is always a compromise
and one usually has to try out a lot of different ones. Off-the-shelf certified
propellers will work, but they may not be the best for your setup.
As always, it is best to improve efficiency before simply adding power. If I
were
to build another Pietenpol, I would work hard to keep it as light as possible
in order to fly well with modest power.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
BlankSay guys, I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to pla
ns.
That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this
talk
about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planes
were built.
I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slight
ly
nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
months.
As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/5b25ada24a7f9f2360c3efe68e69728914bc3920.gif
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
In Graham's words:
"If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will
work fine for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never
designed to do. ... If I were to build another Pietenpol, I would work
hard to keep it as light as possible in order to fly well with modest
power.".
On Saturday I spent the day at the Brussels, Ontario 17th Annual
Pietenpol gathering at Armstrong's field. I spoke a bit with Brian
Kenney, whose C-FAUK has been flying for 19 years behind a 65HP
Continental. He says he has no problem carrying 200(+)lb passengers. But
he emphasized the importance of keeping the weight of the plane down as
much as possible. I believe he said his empty weight was 587lb - so it
is possible to build lighter if we really make the effort.
As for the fly-in, it was a beautiful sunny day, with unfortunately a
strong breeze that kept the Air Campers camping (on the ground). But
there were 5 Piets (and 3 Tiger Moths) to look at and snap pictures of
and talk to owners and builders about. Our host, Jim Armstrong has been
flying his Piet out of his strip for 39 years. He even used to fly it to
school regularly for 24 years (where he was a teacher). He told me he
has about 1000 hrs on his 65HP Air Camper, which still has the original
covering (Irish Linen on the wings, Grade A cotton on the tail, and
Dacron on the fuselage). He and his son have just completed their second
Piet, which is almost identical to the first (85HP, all Dacron
covering). The second one took 30 years to complete - started as a
teenage father-son project, then got set aside for awhile, then got
resurrected and completed. Really nice finishing on this plane. Jim said
it was his first attempt at covering an entire plane, and he took great
care to ensure all the tapes were straight and neat, and he was pleased
with the results.
I took a bunch of photos, but won't get access to them to download for
about a week. As soon as I get them, I'll post a few to share.
Now I'm stoked to get building again, just like after Brodhead (which is
only five weeks away).
Bill C.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
My thanks to all that are discussing the Pietenpol and the A65. I'm just in
the act of buying one and will be flying it from the Georgia/Florida line to
Western Tennessee. Your discussion has been helpful and gives me some idea
what I'm in for. I'm really looking forward to the plane and the trip but
I'm more use to 1700' a minute rather than 600 or 700' a minute. It will
take a little getting use to but I'm excited to fly the Pietenpol. I'm not
in a hurry and I'm sure it will make me a better pilot.
Any advise from you guys and gals would be very appreciated.
Thank You
Gene
Pietenpol N502R
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:55 AM
>
>
> As always, Graham posted an outstanding reply. I concur with everything
> he said. My Pietenpol has an A65, and it is adequate for solo flying.
> For carrying passengers on a hot day, unless you have a long runway or
> VERY clear approaches at your field, it can cause a bit of
> sphincter-clinch on takeoff. It also cannot cope with much of a
> downdraft. I'll never forget flying it across West Virginia last year on
> the way to Brodhead. I was at 4,000' and trying to climb over a 4400'
> ridge, climbing at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a
> downdraft.
>
>
> Yesterday I took my EAA Flight Advisor up in mine. He weighs 205 (I weigh
> 195) and we had a full tank of fuel (90 lbs). Adding all that to my 745
> lb empty weight, and we were at 1235 lbs. - a heavy load indeed. OAT was
> 91 F, and density altitude was about 2500'. Fortunately I had enough
> sense to not try this from the 2,000' strip with 120' trees at the end
> where I base the plane. We flew out of Sanford, NC (TTA) where the runway
> is 6500' long with unobstructed approaches for at least mile on either
> end of the runway. Takeoff was impressive - we were off the ground in
> about 600'. Climbout was less impressive, but still acceptable at 150 fpm.
> He loved the airplane (other than its climb rate). BTW at that weight,
> stall speed was 42 mph indicated.
>
>
> If I had it to do over again, I would put a C-85 in it. Or fly from
> longer airstrips. If I had tried yesterday's flight from my home field, we
> would have impacted the trees at the end about 70 feet below the treetops.
> If I were to build another one, I might seriously look at adding 4 feet to
> the wingspan, which would add about 25 lbs to the weight, but would add 20
> sq. ft to the wing area.
>
>
> One other note on a topic that has been discussed recently - yesterday I
> sealed the gaps between my elevators and horizontal stabilizer with duct
> tape. I found a slight improvement in time to raise the tail on takeoff,
> and about a 2 mph improvement in cruise speed. I also found that it
> changed the trim of the airplane. Before this change I could trim the
> plane to fly hands off using my spring trim system. Now even with full
> nose up trim it still tends to nose down slightly, indicating that the
> tail is providing more lift than before.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:36 PM
>
>
> Ken Heide,
>
>
> Our elevation here in central Alberta, Canada is about 2500' msl which is
> quite a bit higher than yours in Fargo, ND.
>
>
> For the first couple of years, my Pietenpol was powered by an A65
> Continental. Its performance was adequate when flying solo, but the climb
> rate was sluggish with an adult passenger aboard on a hot day. In cruise
> with a load, one had to work the A65 pretty hard to maintain altitude;
> there was little power in reserve to deal with downdrafts.
>
>
> Then I obtained a C85 and the difference was dramatic, to say the least.
> With only a slight weight increase, power was increased by nearly 31%! The
> most significant improvement was in the climb rate, and the cruise speed
> increased by about 7-8 mph. The takeoff run was shortened, but not by
> much; even with the A65, the a/c had always seemed to perform well within
> ground effect. Nowadays, I have power in reserve to climb over obstacles
> and cope with downdrafts.
>
>
> When the Pietenpol was designed, people were smaller and lighter. We tend
> to forget that the Pietenpol is a small airplane when compared to
> Taylorcrafts, Cubs and Aeroncas with the same power. Typically, these
> airplanes have a wingspan of 35 - 36 feet with a wing area of 175 - 180
> square feet versus the Pietenpol's 29 foot span and about 145 square
> feet.Their aspect ratio is around seven compared to the Pietenpol's 5.8,
> making them much better gliders than the Pietenpol. When one considers
> that all these airplanes essentially were designed around smaller people,
> they do rather well hauling a couple of 200(+) pounders these days. If we
> all weighed perhaps 150 to 170 pounds, our little airplanes would perform
> much better because that is close to what they were designed to carry.
>
>
> However, we have to face the fact that people are bigger and heavier these
> days--and the airplanes we love are not any larger. About all we can do is
> keep them (and us) as light as possible and increase the available power
> (without adding too much weight, of course).
>
>
> In my experience, the Continental C85-8 engine is about the optimum engine
> for the Pietenpol. It is only slightly heavier than the A65-8 and provides
> the same clearance between the magnetos and the firewall. I have a C85-12
> in my Pietenpol and it is a bit heavier than the -8 version because of the
> rear accessory case, which makes for a tight fit between the magnetos and
> the firewall. (A longer engine mount would cure this problem, but I don't
> wish to build new cowlings, etc.)
>
>
> If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will
> work fine for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never
> designed to do. Having the optimum engine/ propeller combination is
> extremely important. I have yet to find the very best propeller for
> mine--either with the A65 or the C85 engines. If you are lucky, you may
> find a custom propeller that is close to ideal for your airplane, but a
> fixed pitch propeller is always a compromise and one usually has to try
> out a lot of different ones. Off-the-shelf certified propellers will work,
> but they may not be the best for your setup.
>
>
> As always, it is best to improve efficiency before simply adding power. If
> I were to build another Pietenpol, I would work hard to keep it as light
> as possible in order to fly well with modest power.
>
>
> Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
> privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
> received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Gene,
Where in West Tennessee are you going? I'm from Jackson, TN (MKL)
originally and flew my Pietenpol there from Oshkosh last summer, after
attending the real fly-in at Brodhead. I understand there is a
Pietenpol under construction in Lexington, east of Jackson.
On the way home from Jackson to Raleigh, I landed at Pulaski, TN, and
=== message truncated ==
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
| Subject: | role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
Good looking Pietenpol, Gene. You're gonna love it!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 4:38 PM
Markle...Javier !
You guys are great! Just what I needed! Between your comments and Jack
Phillips sending photos of his last trip, I can't stand it any more and
have
left a message with the seller to see if I can pick the plane up a few
days
earlier. If anyone is interested in seeing the plane you can go to
Barnstormers.com and see it under experimental, "Pietenpol".
I won't be able to make the fly-in but sure hope some of you will take
lots
of photo's.
If the owner can and the weather holds, I will move the fly date from
the
27th to the 22nd. I'll keep ya posted.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 8:34 AM
!
>
>
> Not me. I've decided to sell my Pietenpol (too slow, too noisy, too
> drafty, no fun) and buy a REAL airplane - a Cessna 172. Then I will
> feel safe, flying only from controlled fields and always under an
> instrument flight plan so I don't have to worry about some foolish
pilot
> in an aircraft without radios running into me.
>
> NOT
>
> Unfortunately, I can't make it to Brodhead (or the other Wisconsin
> fly-in) this year. I am having a blast flying the Pietenpol, though.
> Just got married and about to leave on a honeymoon, and can't afford
to
> do that and get to Wisconsin. I did suggest a honeymoon sleeping
under
> the stars in Wisconsin, but that didn't set too well.
>
> Since my new bride has agreed to start building an RV-10 with me as
soon
> as we get back, I can't complain too much. She has also agreed that
we
> must always keep the Pietenpol for fun flying, no matter what kind of
> fast spam can we have for travelling. Now all I've got to do is
figure
> out how to convince her that we need to keep the Pietenpol, the RV-4
and
> the RV-10. I'm afraid the RV-4 will have to go, so we can afford to
> finish the RV-10. I'll miss the aerobatics in the -4.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michael
> D Cuy
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:12 AM
> !
>
>
>
>
> Okay you sugar muffins---you guys sure have been boring lately.
Let's
> get
> the lead out and get
> fired up some, huh ? (okay, I'm boring too.....and fat, but that
> doesn't
> stop me from shaking you up
> once in a while)
>
> Who the heck is getting their sorry asses to Brodhead ??? I don't
care
> by
> car, boat, or plane--who is
> going to be there ?
>
> Mike C. in Ohio
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
>
>
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while
building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built
without them, I would like your recommendations.
I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.
That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this
talk
about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planes
were built.
I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slight
ly
nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
months.
As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/5b25ada24a7f9f2360c3efe68e69728914bc3920.gif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TomTravis(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
I need some motivation to get this Piet project back on the front burner so
I'm going to try to make it to Broadhead this year. I'm trying to talk my
bride into a driving vacation that would include Broadhead and Oshkosh.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Fred "The Hulk" Beseler & Chuckie Gantzer |
Man, Old Iron Butt himself, gotta give a big credit to Chuck Gantzer for
making it from Kansas for the fourth
year in a row in his Smoker Special Air Camper. Way to go, Chuck. I am
going to be a woose and drive up
in comfortable air conditioning--and will love every mile of it. (it was
downright scary flying home last year)
Got to meet many of you fine folks last year at Brodhead and Fred Beseler
was one. Fred looks like he could
put you up against a wall as a bouncer in a club, but is a friendly and
enthusiastic Piet builder.
By the way Fred--I cheated too in buying a set of Charlie Ruebeck
ribs. Charlie did some very, very nice work.
I heard from someone that though Charlie built many sets over the years
that mine were the first (that he had heard of)
to fly in 1998. Not sure how true that is but no better tribute than for
you and others to get more sets of those
Ruebeck ribs in the air !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: role call ? Attention Gantzer, Markle...Javier ! |
Also planning on making the trip in from CT with tent and camera in tow.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42044#42044
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
According to my map it's about 37 miles.....
Jim Markle
Pryor, OK
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 6:50 AM
>
> How far is it from Rockford to Broadhead? I am gathering some thoughts on
> how to combine business with passion and really need to see examples and
> continue the prebuild research.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
With all the chatter about Brodhead approaching, I remembered a short
movie I put together from some footage that I shot in 2004, and I
thought maybe others might like to see it, so I sent it through to
photoshare. I'm not sure if it will go through, as it is a fairly big
file (6MB). But if it does, it should be available in a couple of days
(according to the photoshare rules).
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Steve E here,
Not planning to attend from Utah, but wish I was. I last attended in
2000 when I drove. Flew in my piet in 1999. Great time. Wish I could
be there making smoke and eating a brat or two. My Stinson is almost
done. Just have interior, glass, and cowling left, then wings and tail
go on. I've put 20 or so hours on in a Stinson lately and hadn't flown
the piet for 6 months. Last night I flew into the sunset and boy it was
a great night for open cockpit piet flying. You can hear the trains and
smell the fields.
Steve e
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:33 AM
With all the chatter about Brodhead approaching, I remembered a short
movie I put together from some footage that I shot in 2004, and I
thought maybe others might like to see it, so I sent it through to
photoshare. I'm not sure if it will go through, as it is a fairly big
file (6MB). But if it does, it should be available in a couple of days
(according to the photoshare rules).
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
I think that aeromart is not open on Monday or atleast that was how it was
last year. They take in on Monday but start selling on Tues. I may be
wrong but worth checking. Ken in wet Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seals/Prop |
Mike,
Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped with
vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus the
normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell me it
makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all the
time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. Maybe
someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you have.
Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will be glad
to know that the salmon are running just fine.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM
BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while
building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built
without them, I would like your recommendations.
I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.
That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this
talk
about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planes
were built.
I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies
slightly
nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
months.
As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seals/Prop |
I would be very interested in your experimentation on vortex generators. I
hope you keep the group informed on your progress and results.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM
>
>
> Mike,
> Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped
> with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus
> the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell
> me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all
> the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL.
> Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you
> have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will
> be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.
> Gordon Bowen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM
>
>
> BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while
> building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built
> without them, I would like your recommendations.
>
> I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.
> That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all
> this talk
> about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
> from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their
> planes
> were built.
>
> I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
> seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies
> slightly
> nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
> changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
> more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
> plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
> and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
> months.
>
> As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Mike King
> GN-1
> 77MK
> Dallas
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | GN-1 vs. Piet gaps |
A note of observation here is that the GN-1 design uses opposing eye bolts
to attach control
surfaces and the gaps are quite large compared with the Pietenpol design.
Both designs need some sort of aileron seals but the Piet gaps in the
tailfeathers are nothing to
fuss about.....the GN-1 is another story.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Bill of materials |
Again, and not to beat a dead horse as far as the research part of this project
but I need to ask. Does anyone have a good bill of materials that they would
be willing to share? Something I can uses to do my cost estimates with, and locate
vendors. It doesn't matter about the format, just something that will tell
me how much of each size and type material I need in wood and metal, now especially
the metal part as I may be close to the metal acquisition phase as soon
as tomorrow afternoon. I realize its rather short notice, but I figured with
the collective wisdom of the group and the opportunity presenting itself to
get metal in the next day or two I would at least ask.
Any basic listing would be helpful, naturally the more detail the better. If ya
got anything that's close you are willing to share it would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
A note of observation here is that the GN-1 design uses opposing eye bolts to attach
control
surfaces and the gaps are quite large compared with the Pietenpol design.
Both designs need some sort of aileron seals but the Piet gaps in the tailfeathers
are nothing to
fuss about.....the GN-1 is another story.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of materials |
I'd be interested in a bill of materials also. I haven't bought plans. I
guess the bill of materials is included with plans, or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
| Subject: | Bill of materials |
You don't need to beat this particular horse - it's been beat to death
many times before. There is no definitive list because every Pietenpol
is different. For example, mine uses wire wheels and a straight axle,
so if you're building an "Improved" Pietenpol with the split axle gear,
mine wouldn't help you. Likewise, my 25" wide fuselage would have you
order too much plywood if you are building yours to the plans, but used
my list of materials. Of course, it is possible that you are building
yours exactly to the plans with no modifications, and there just might
be another Pietenpol out there built exactly to the plans, but I doubt
it. I've never seen any two Pietenpols that were even close to being
identical. Mike Cuy's and mine are pretty close - both have A65
Continentals and wire wheels with straight axles, and piano hinges on
the ailerons, but then his is a short fuselage, mine is a long, mine is
1" wider than plans, his has mechanical brakes, mine are hydraulic, his
uses curved windscreens, mine are 3-pane flat - the list of differences
goes on and on.
One of the joys of building a Pietenpol is that you get to do every
single step of the creative process, and have to think. Pity the
kitbuilder - someone else got to do all the thinking and he is not
allowed to think. He is not a builder, but merely an assembler.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 2:51 PM
Again, and not to beat a dead horse as far as the research part of this
project but I need to ask. Does anyone have a good bill of materials
that they would be willing to share? Something I can uses to do my cost
estimates with, and locate vendors. It doesn't matter about the format,
just something that will tell me how much of each size and type material
I need in wood and metal, now especially the metal part as I may be
close to the metal acquisition phase as soon as tomorrow afternoon. I
realize its rather short notice, but I figured with the collective
wisdom of the group and the opportunity presenting itself to get metal
in the next day or two I would at least ask.
Any basic listing would be helpful, naturally the more detail the
better. If ya got anything that's close you are willing to share it
would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
A note of observation here is that the GN-1 design uses opposing eye
bolts to attach control
surfaces and the gaps are quite large compared with the Pietenpol
design.
Both designs need some sort of aileron seals but the Piet gaps in the
tailfeathers are nothing to
fuss about.....the GN-1 is another story.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of materials |
Jack thanks for your reply, actually I intend to go wider and 25" does sound attractive,
I am not a small guy and intended on down loading info from the archives
about stretch and widen, so we may be close pretty close. I am trying to
not reinvent the wheel or the peit for that matter, but moreover extract the current
wisdom for my own speed and design purposes. Which is the reason I am looking
for in the bill of materials. It will save a great deal of time rather
than studying the drawings and listing each piece to come up with the gross numbers.
The metal opportunity is at hand and I would like to take full advantage of the
opportunity as it available. I typically like to get the research done and design
a plan of attack prior to beginning any project, especially one this complex.
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
You don't need to beat this particular horse - it's been beat to death
many times before. There is no definitive list because every Pietenpol
is different. For example, mine uses wire wheels and a straight axle,
so if you're building an "Improved" Pietenpol with the split axle gear,
mine wouldn't help you. Likewise, my 25" wide fuselage would have you
order too much plywood if you are building yours to the plans, but used
my list of materials. Of course, it is possible that you are building
yours exactly to the plans with no modifications, and there just might
be another Pietenpol out there built exactly to the plans, but I doubt
it. I've never seen any two Pietenpols that were even close to being
identical. Mike Cuy's and mine are pretty close - both have A65
Continentals and wire wheels with straight axles, and piano hinges on
the ailerons, but then his is a short fuselage, mine is a long, mine is
1" wider than plans, his has mechanical brakes, mine are hydraulic, his
uses curved windscreens, mine are 3-pane flat - the list of differences
goes on and on.
One of the joys of building a Pietenpol is that you get to do every
single step of the creative process, and have to think. Pity the
kitbuilder - someone else got to do all the thinking and he is not
allowed to think. He is not a builder, but merely an assembler.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 2:51 PM
Again, and not to beat a dead horse as far as the research part of this
project but I need to ask. Does anyone have a good bill of materials
that they would be willing to share? Something I can uses to do my cost
estimates with, and locate vendors. It doesn't matter about the format,
just something that will tell me how much of each size and type material
I need in wood and metal, now especially the metal part as I may be
close to the metal acquisition phase as soon as tomorrow afternoon. I
realize its rather short notice, but I figured with the collective
wisdom of the group and the opportunity presenting itself to get metal
in the next day or two I would at least ask.
Any basic listing would be helpful, naturally the more detail the
better. If ya got anything that's close you are willing to share it
would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
A note of observation here is that the GN-1 design uses opposing eye
bolts to attach control
surfaces and the gaps are quite large compared with the Pietenpol
design.
Both designs need some sort of aileron seals but the Piet gaps in the
tailfeathers are nothing to
fuss about.....the GN-1 is another story.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bill of materials |
Jack's post is very realistic in regards to compiling a bill of materials
for a Pietenpol or GN-1.
When ordering my wood I simply got out the plans, went over them slowly and
noted the size and lengths
I would need for each component of my plane, for example the wing type (3
pce) and called Wicks and
ordered it. They brought my wood load to Oshkosh where I picked it up
from their truck and trucked it home
atop our vehicle to save trucking costs.
Steel is another matter--wether you buy strips or bulk sheets and have it
sheared.
Most of the fittings are either .060" or .090" 4130 with a few odd
thicknesses here and there
and a smattering of tubing sizes.
An acquaintance once owned an AN hardware business and wanted to put
together a hardware kit for a Piet
and it really is an act of futility as we all build slightly different, use
different ideas, gear types, wing configurations, engine
types, cable sizes for brace cables, big or small, and big or small turn
buckles.
If this was an RV kit I could see a very nice hardware kit coming along,
but this whole thing is scratch thought out and built.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of materials |
Nope, no bill of materials, just a cost sheet of what it cost Bernie to buy the
parts on the list when he built his. No real listing of specs and quantities
of each material that one could without study of the prints. At least none that
I was able to comprehend.
John
-----Original Message-----
I'd be interested in a bill of materials also. I haven't bought plans. I
guess the bill of materials is included with plans, or not?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
John-- if you want to save time, but the book set by Tony Bingelis thru EAA
for about $75.
These will save you time so you order the right hardware, right
steel (steel has a grain direction and can't be bent across the
grain.....I didn't know that
when I started building) the right wood, the right stuff that will save you
tons of time by not having to re-do your mistakes.
Those books paid for themselves over and over again in TIME and money saved
on my project.
It is great to plan, to go to Brodhead, to take notes, photos,
measurements, ask questions, review the archives---but this plane takes as much
time to think about as it does to build. I have tons of notes, scratch
pad ideas, things I would modify, change, change again, read about how
to do and the actual doing took far less time than the planning so planning
is good, for sure but listing materials for the plane is about one of
your shorter tasks in a 3-8 year project.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
correction---steel should be bent perpendicular to the grain (printing on
the steel sheet)
Funny thing about the Piet is that you just don't place one order for
materials. You will be on a first name
basis with the people at Wicks, your hardware source, your fabric and
finishing source, and your UPS man or woman in short
order while building a scratch-built plane.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Now that I have the full set of drawing and supplements that's the next thing
on my list as far as publications to guide me through the process.
"if you want to save time, but the book set by Tony Bingelis thru EAA for about
$75". That to me was a great part of the advise cycle I have already noted and
intend on ordering within the next 2 weeks, along with joining the local chapter
of the EAA.
I am new to this process and all ears when it comes to information, research, tips
and tricks.
Thanks again
John
-----Original Message-----
John-- if you want to save time, but the book set by Tony Bingelis thru EAA for
about $75.
These will save you time so you order the right hardware, right steel (steel has
a grain direction and can't be bent across the grain.....I didn't know that
when I started building) the right wood, the right stuff that will save you tons
of time by not having to re-do your mistakes.
Those books paid for themselves over and over again in TIME and money saved on
my project.
It is great to plan, to go to Brodhead, to take notes, photos, measurements, ask
questions, review the archives---but this plane takes as much
time to think about as it does to build. I have tons of notes, scratch pad ideas,
things I would modify, change, change again, read about how
to do and the actual doing took far less time than the planning so planning is
good, for sure but listing materials for the plane is about one of
your shorter tasks in a 3-8 year project.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Good point about being on a first name basis with the UPS man. I
brought him down to my basement one day to show him the Piet under
construction. After that he never left a package out in the rain again,
but brought them up to the front porch.
Another reason no list of materials exists is because most builders
piecemeal it out, buying the stuff for the wings, then the fuselage,
then the tail, etc, rather than all at once. I have no idea what parts
I bought for mine. I've got all the invoices, and I know it tiotalled a
little over $7000 (not counting the engine), but it would take me a week
to compile a single list from it.
If you are having it shipped, it is an advantage to order all the big
stuff (spars, longerons, sheets of plywood) that has to go by truck
rather than UPS all at the same time to save on shipping. It costs
about $100 to ship by truck, whether it is just one spar or enough
lumber to buidl three airplanes.
Jack Phillips
About to put my brain in neutral and order a Kit, so I can become an
airplane assembler instead of a builder.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:31 PM
correction---steel should be bent perpendicular to the grain (printing
on
the steel sheet)
Funny thing about the Piet is that you just don't place one order for
materials. You will be on a first name
basis with the people at Wicks, your hardware source, your fabric and
finishing source, and your UPS man or woman in short
order while building a scratch-built plane.
Mike C.
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Buy a copy of AC 43.13B "Acceptable methods - Aircraft Inspection and
Repair", too. I also found the EAA's book on aircraft welding to be
useful, but you probably know more about welding than I did when I
started building (my dog did).
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Builder
RV Assembler (soon)
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:49 PM
Now that I have the full set of drawing and supplements that's the next
thing on my list as far as publications to guide me through the process.
"if you want to save time, but the book set by Tony Bingelis thru EAA
for about $75". That to me was a great part of the advise cycle I have
already noted and intend on ordering within the next 2 weeks, along with
joining the local chapter of the EAA.
I am new to this process and all ears when it comes to information,
research, tips and tricks.
Thanks again
John
-----Original Message-----
John-- if you want to save time, but the book set by Tony Bingelis thru
EAA for about $75.
These will save you time so you order the right hardware, right steel
(steel has a grain direction and can't be bent across the grain.....I
didn't know that
when I started building) the right wood, the right stuff that will save
you tons of time by not having to re-do your mistakes.
Those books paid for themselves over and over again in TIME and money
saved on my project.
It is great to plan, to go to Brodhead, to take notes, photos,
measurements, ask questions, review the archives---but this plane takes
as much
time to think about as it does to build. I have tons of notes, scratch
pad ideas, things I would modify, change, change again, read about how
to do and the actual doing took far less time than the planning so
planning is good, for sure but listing materials for the plane is about
one of
your shorter tasks in a 3-8 year project.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Airplane assemblers |
I couldn't imagine myself just "putting part "A" in slot "B". It would bore
me to death. I need to exercise my brain, laying awake at night drawing
imaginary parts in my mind's eye. That is the beauty and fun of the Piet.
Bernard actually did us a huge favor when he left a lot of stuff out of the plans
(even though I have been cussing him of late after I scrapped my second set
of straight axle landing gear struts and fittings).
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
| Subject: | Airplane assemblers |
I agree Dan,
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) my new
bride loves to fly, as long as we're going somewhere. She doesn't care
at all to just go "up", like I enjoy with the Pietenpol. If I say,
"let's fly the RV-4 to..." she's out the door and climbing in the
cockpit before I can even finish the sentence. I've taken her up in the
Piet once and she couldn't believe how long it took to get to the end of
the runway after takeoff. It couldn't have been much over a minute
(6500' runway). She's used to getting wherever she wants to go at 170
knots, but she finds the RV-4 too cramped for comfortable travel. Hence
my decision to build (excuse me, "assemble") an RV-10. Maybe I'll
modify it and make the world's first taildragger RV-10, just so it's not
exactly like 1,000 other airplanes.
Don't get me wrong, she loves the Pietenpol and thinks it's a cool
plane, as long as she doesn't have to sit in it very long. At least she
likes to fly, which is more than I can say for wife #1 or wife #2. And
she understands my need to fly a plane with no starter, no forward
visibility and open cockpits.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 4:14 PM
I couldn't imagine myself just "putting part "A" in slot "B". It would
bore
me to death. I need to exercise my brain, laying awake at night
drawing
imaginary parts in my mind's eye. That is the beauty and fun of the
Piet.
Bernard actually did us a huge favor when he left a lot of stuff out of
the plans
(even though I have been cussing him of late after I scrapped my second
set
of straight axle landing gear struts and fittings).
Dan Helsper
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
Jack,
Alright I guess I can forgive you this time, after your explanation. I also
have another "going some place" airplane. My wife (#1) is not into this
Pietenpol thing unfortunately. You better hang on tight to #3. Tell your wife
if she ever decides to dump you to look me up.
Dan H
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/21/2006 9:09:16 AM Central Standard Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
According to my map it's about 37 miles.....
Which means that if I were 148 miles high, it would be within gliding
distance of a Pietenpol. That's considering a 4 to 1 glide ratio.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead oops |
In a message dated 6/21/2006 4:36:04 PM Central Standard Time, Rcaprd(at)aol.com
writes:
Which means that if I were 148 miles high, it would be within gliding
distance of a Pietenpol. That's considering a 4 to 1 glide ratio.
Oops !! Got that backwards !! If I were 9 1/4 miles high, Brodhead would
be gliding distance from Rockford. 4 to 1 glide ratio.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Bill of materials |
John,
I have a list of the material I used for my Piet at
http://www.cpc-world.com.
Check under Services & Suppliers > Material Lists.
As noted in previous emails on this thread, this is what I used for my Piet,
yours may be different. It should however give you a good guide for costing
etc.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, 22 June 2006 4:51 AM
Again, and not to beat a dead horse as far as the research part of this
project but I need to ask. Does anyone have a good bill of materials that
they would be willing to share? Something I can uses to do my cost estimates
with, and locate vendors. It doesn't matter about the format, just something
that will tell me how much of each size and type material I need in wood
and metal, now especially the metal part as I may be close to the metal
acquisition phase as soon as tomorrow afternoon. I realize its rather short
notice, but I figured with the collective wisdom of the group and the
opportunity presenting itself to get metal in the next day or two I would at
least ask.
Any basic listing would be helpful, naturally the more detail the better. If
ya got anything that's close you are willing to share it would be greatly
appreciated!
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
A note of observation here is that the GN-1 design uses opposing eye bolts
to attach control
surfaces and the gaps are quite large compared with the Pietenpol design.
Both designs need some sort of aileron seals but the Piet gaps in the
tailfeathers are nothing to
fuss about.....the GN-1 is another story.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Mike,
Funny, you must have the same gene for humor as me (or vice versa) You seam
to pick up on the same stuff.
I was on a first name basis with the UPS driver, who would come down to the
basement whenever I didn't answer the door. He followed my project to about
2/3 done. Now the next guy took over, and a couple years later is still
around.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:30 PM
>>
> Funny thing about the Piet is that you just don't place one order for
> materials. You will be on a first name
>
> basis with the people at Wicks, your hardware source, your fabric and
> finishing source, and your UPS man or woman in short
>
> order while building a scratch-built plane.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Have the set (4) of Bengelis books and will probably never open any again.
$40 plus UPS if anyone is interested.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Travel distance to Janesville is about 30 minutes and then another 20 minutes to
Rockford.
How far is it from Rockford to Broadhead? I am gathering some thoughts on how to
combine business with passion and really need to see examples and continue the
prebuild research.
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
The Brodhead dates are Fri Jul 21-- Sun Jul 23.
I plan to drive up and get there as early as possible on Friday. I will have
a car for errands, supplies, beer runs, etc. I will be camping there on Friday
night, but will likely move to a motel in Rockford on Saturday, for I am meeting
an old friend from Chicago who says his 75-yr.-old back doesn't do air matresses
any longer.
That's my plan for now.
Chuck Gantzer told me he was likely going up Thursday to get settled in.
Oscar has told me he cannot go this year.
Corky, are you thinking of going? I'll have the scotch this time.
I look forward to meeting you all.
Tim
.
Pietenpol-List Digest Server
wrote:
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-06-19.html
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-06-19.txt
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/19/06: 13
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Re: Engine selection (Phillips, Jack)
2. 06:07 AM - GN-1 Gap Seals (Mike King)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: Engine selection (Bill Church)
4. 09:36 AM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: Engine selection (Phillips, Jack)
6. 10:52 AM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
7. 11:08 AM - Re: Engine selection (Steve Eldredge)
8. 11:57 AM - Engine selection (HelsperSew(at)aol.com)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: Engine selection (KMHeide)
10. 06:58 PM - Re: Engine selection (Dick Navratil)
11. 07:07 PM - radial eng chopper (Dick Navratil)
12. 07:16 PM - Re: Covering (Peter W Johnson)
13. 08:14 PM - Re: Engine selection (Gene & Tammy)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
As always, Graham posted an outstanding reply. I concur with everything he said.
My Pietenpol has an A65, and it is adequate for solo flying. For carrying
passengers on a hot day, unless you have a long runway or VERY clear approaches
at your field, it can cause a bit of sphincter-clinch on takeoff. It also
cannot cope with much of a downdraft. I'll never forget flying it across West
Virginia last year on the way to Brodhead. I was at 4,000' and trying to climb
over a 4400' ridge, climbing at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in
a downdraft.
Yesterday I took my EAA Flight Advisor up in mine. He weighs 205 (I weigh 195)
and we had a full tank of fuel (90 lbs). Adding all that to my 745 lb empty
weight, and we were at 1235 lbs. - a heavy load indeed. OAT was 91 F, and
density
altitude was about 2500'. Fortunately I had enough sense to not try this
from the 2,000' strip with 120' trees at the end where I base the plane. We
flew out of Sanford, NC (TTA) where the runway is 6500' long with unobstructed
approaches for at least mile on either end of the runway. Takeoff was impressive
- we were off the ground in about 600'. Climbout was less impressive, but
still acceptable at 150 fpm. He loved the airplane (other than its climb rate).
BTW at that weight, stall speed was 42 mph indicated.
If I had it to do over again, I would put a C-85 in it. Or fly from longer
airstrips.
If I had tried yesterday's flight from my home field, we would have impacted
the trees at the end about 70 feet below the treetops. If I were to build
another one, I might seriously look at adding 4 feet to the wingspan, which
would add about 25 lbs to the weight, but would add 20 sq. ft to the wing area.
One other note on a topic that has been discussed recently - yesterday I sealed
the gaps between my elevators and horizontal stabilizer with duct tape. I found
a slight improvement in time to raise the tail on takeoff, and about a 2 mph
improvement in cruise speed. I also found that it changed the trim of the
airplane. Before this change I could trim the plane to fly hands off using my
spring trim system. Now even with full nose up trim it still tends to nose down
slightly, indicating that the tail is providing more lift than before.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:36 PM
Ken Heide,
Our elevation here in central Alberta, Canada is about 2500' msl which is quite
a bit higher than yours in Fargo, ND.
For the first couple of years, my Pietenpol was powered by an A65 Continental.
Its performance was adequate when flying solo, but the climb rate was sluggish
with an adult passenger aboard on a hot day. In cruise with a load, one had to
work the A65 pretty hard to maintain altitude; there was little power in reserve
to deal with downdrafts.
Then I obtained a C85 and the difference was dramatic, to say the least. With
only
a slight weight increase, power was increased by nearly 31%! The most
significant
improvement was in the climb rate, and the cruise speed increased by about
7-8 mph. The takeoff run was shortened, but not by much; even with the A65,
the a/c had always seemed to perform well within ground effect. Nowadays, I
have power in reserve to climb over obstacles and cope with downdrafts.
When the Pietenpol was designed, people were smaller and lighter. We tend to
forget
that the Pietenpol is a small airplane when compared to Taylorcrafts, Cubs
and Aeroncas with the same power. Typically, these airplanes have a wingspan
of 35 - 36 feet with a wing area of 175 - 180 square feet versus the Pietenpol's
29 foot span and about 145 square feet.Their aspect ratio is around seven
compared to the Pietenpol's 5.8, making them much better gliders than the
Pietenpol.
When one considers that all these airplanes essentially were designed around
smaller people, they do rather well hauling a couple of 200(+) pounders
these days. If we all weighed perhaps 150 to 170 pounds, our little airplanes
would perform much better because that is close to what they were designed to
carry.
However, we have to face the fact that people are bigger and heavier these
days--and
the airplanes we love are not any larger. About all we can do is keep them
(and us) as light as possible and increase the available power (without adding
too much weight, of course).
In my experience, the Continental C85-8 engine is about the optimum engine for
the Pietenpol. It is only slightly heavier than the A65-8 and provides the same
clearance between the magnetos and the firewall. I have a C85-12 in my Pietenpol
and it is a bit heavier than the -8 version because of the rear accessory
case, which makes for a tight fit between the magnetos and the firewall. (A
longer
engine mount would cure this problem, but I don't wish to build new cowlings,
etc.)
If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will work
fine
for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never designed to do.
Having the optimum engine/ propeller combination is extremely important. I
have yet to find the very best propeller for mine--either with the A65 or the
C85 engines. If you are lucky, you may find a custom propeller that is close to
ideal for your airplane, but a fixed pitch propeller is always a compromise
and one usually has to try out a lot of different ones. Off-the-shelf certified
propellers will work, but they may not be the best for your setup.
As always, it is best to improve efficiency before simply adding power. If I
were
to build another Pietenpol, I would work hard to keep it as light as possible
in order to fly well with modest power.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
BlankSay guys, I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to pla
ns.
That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this
talk
about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planes
were built.
I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slight
ly
nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
months.
As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/5b25ada24a7f9f2360c3efe68e69728914bc3920.gif
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
In Graham's words:
"If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will
work fine for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never
designed to do. ... If I were to build another Pietenpol, I would work
hard to keep it as light as possible in order to fly well with modest
power.".
On Saturday I spent the day at the Brussels, Ontario 17th Annual
Pietenpol gathering at Armstrong's field. I spoke a bit with Brian
Kenney, whose C-FAUK has been flying for 19 years behind a 65HP
Continental. He says he has no problem carrying 200(+)lb passengers. But
he emphasized the importance of keeping the weight of the plane down as
much as possible. I believe he said his empty weight was 587lb - so it
is possible to build lighter if we really make the effort.
As for the fly-in, it was a beautiful sunny day, with unfortunately a
strong breeze that kept the Air Campers camping (on the ground). But
there were 5 Piets (and 3 Tiger Moths) to look at and snap pictures of
and talk to owners and builders about. Our host, Jim Armstrong has been
flying his Piet out of his strip for 39 years. He even used to fly it to
school regularly for 24 years (where he was a teacher). He told me he
has about 1000 hrs on his 65HP Air Camper, which still has the original
covering (Irish Linen on the wings, Grade A cotton on the tail, and
Dacron on the fuselage). He and his son have just completed their second
Piet, which is almost identical to the first (85HP, all Dacron
covering). The second one took 30 years to complete - started as a
teenage father-son project, then got set aside for awhile, then got
resurrected and completed. Really nice finishing on this plane. Jim said
it was his first attempt at covering an entire plane, and he took great
care to ensure all the tapes were straight and neat, and he was pleased
with the results.
I took a bunch of photos, but won't get access to them to download for
about a week. As soon as I get them, I'll post a few to share.
Now I'm stoked to get building again, just like after Brodhead (which is
only five weeks away).
Bill C.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
My thanks to all that are discussing the Pietenpol and the A65. I'm just in
the act of buying one and will be flying it from the Georgia/Florida line to
Western Tennessee. Your discussion has been helpful and gives me some idea
what I'm in for. I'm really looking forward to the plane and the trip but
I'm more use to 1700' a minute rather than 600 or 700' a minute. It will
take a little getting use to but I'm excited to fly the Pietenpol. I'm not
in a hurry and I'm sure it will make me a better pilot.
Any advise from you guys and gals would be very appreciated.
Thank You
Gene
Pietenpol N502R
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:55 AM
>
>
> As always, Graham posted an outstanding reply. I concur with everything
> he said. My Pietenpol has an A65, and it is adequate for solo flying.
> For carrying passengers on a hot day, unless you have a long runway or
> VERY clear approaches at your field, it can cause a bit of
> sphincter-clinch on takeoff. It also cannot cope with much of a
> downdraft. I'll never forget flying it across West Virginia last year on
> the way to Brodhead. I was at 4,000' and trying to climb over a 4400'
> ridge, climbing at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a
> downdraft.
>
>
> Yesterday I took my EAA Flight Advisor up in mine. He weighs 205 (I weigh
> 195) and we had a full tank of fuel (90 lbs). Adding all that to my 745
> lb empty weight, and we were at 1235 lbs. - a heavy load indeed. OAT was
> 91 F, and density altitude was about 2500'. Fortunately I had enough
> sense to not try this from the 2,000' strip with 120' trees at the end
> where I base the plane. We flew out of Sanford, NC (TTA) where the runway
> is 6500' long with unobstructed approaches for at least mile on either
> end of the runway. Takeoff was impressive - we were off the ground in
> about 600'. Climbout was less impressive, but still acceptable at 150 fpm.
> He loved the airplane (other than its climb rate). BTW at that weight,
> stall speed was 42 mph indicated.
>
>
> If I had it to do over again, I would put a C-85 in it. Or fly from
> longer airstrips. If I had tried yesterday's flight from my home field, we
> would have impacted the trees at the end about 70 feet below the treetops.
> If I were to build another one, I might seriously look at adding 4 feet to
> the wingspan, which would add about 25 lbs to the weight, but would add 20
> sq. ft to the wing area.
>
>
> One other note on a topic that has been discussed recently - yesterday I
> sealed the gaps between my elevators and horizontal stabilizer with duct
> tape. I found a slight improvement in time to raise the tail on takeoff,
> and about a 2 mph improvement in cruise speed. I also found that it
> changed the trim of the airplane. Before this change I could trim the
> plane to fly hands off using my spring trim system. Now even with full
> nose up trim it still tends to nose down slightly, indicating that the
> tail is providing more lift than before.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 2:36 PM
>
>
> Ken Heide,
>
>
> Our elevation here in central Alberta, Canada is about 2500' msl which is
> quite a bit higher than yours in Fargo, ND.
>
>
> For the first couple of years, my Pietenpol was powered by an A65
> Continental. Its performance was adequate when flying solo, but the climb
> rate was sluggish with an adult passenger aboard on a hot day. In cruise
> with a load, one had to work the A65 pretty hard to maintain altitude;
> there was little power in reserve to deal with downdrafts.
>
>
> Then I obtained a C85 and the difference was dramatic, to say the least.
> With only a slight weight increase, power was increased by nearly 31%! The
> most significant improvement was in the climb rate, and the cruise speed
> increased by about 7-8 mph. The takeoff run was shortened, but not by
> much; even with the A65, the a/c had always seemed to perform well within
> ground effect. Nowadays, I have power in reserve to climb over obstacles
> and cope with downdrafts.
>
>
> When the Pietenpol was designed, people were smaller and lighter. We tend
> to forget that the Pietenpol is a small airplane when compared to
> Taylorcrafts, Cubs and Aeroncas with the same power. Typically, these
> airplanes have a wingspan of 35 - 36 feet with a wing area of 175 - 180
> square feet versus the Pietenpol's 29 foot span and about 145 square
> feet.Their aspect ratio is around seven compared to the Pietenpol's 5.8,
> making them much better gliders than the Pietenpol. When one considers
> that all these airplanes essentially were designed around smaller people,
> they do rather well hauling a couple of 200(+) pounders these days. If we
> all weighed perhaps 150 to 170 pounds, our little airplanes would perform
> much better because that is close to what they were designed to carry.
>
>
> However, we have to face the fact that people are bigger and heavier these
> days--and the airplanes we love are not any larger. About all we can do is
> keep them (and us) as light as possible and increase the available power
> (without adding too much weight, of course).
>
>
> In my experience, the Continental C85-8 engine is about the optimum engine
> for the Pietenpol. It is only slightly heavier than the A65-8 and provides
> the same clearance between the magnetos and the firewall. I have a C85-12
> in my Pietenpol and it is a bit heavier than the -8 version because of the
> rear accessory case, which makes for a tight fit between the magnetos and
> the firewall. (A longer engine mount would cure this problem, but I don't
> wish to build new cowlings, etc.)
>
>
> If you keep a Pietenpol simple and light, a strong Continental A65 will
> work fine for you--provided you don't expect it to do what it was never
> designed to do. Having the optimum engine/ propeller combination is
> extremely important. I have yet to find the very best propeller for
> mine--either with the A65 or the C85 engines. If you are lucky, you may
> find a custom propeller that is close to ideal for your airplane, but a
> fixed pitch propeller is always a compromise and one usually has to try
> out a lot of different ones. Off-the-shelf certified propellers will work,
> but they may not be the best for your setup.
>
>
> As always, it is best to improve efficiency before simply adding power. If
> I were to build another Pietenpol, I would work hard to keep it as light
> as possible in order to fly well with modest power.
>
>
> Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
> privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
> received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Gene,
Where in West Tennessee are you going? I'm from Jackson, TN (MKL)
originally and flew my Pietenpol there from Oshkosh last summer, after
attending the real fly-in at Brodhead. I understand there is a
Pietenpol under construction in Lexington, east of Jackson.
On the way home from Jackson to Raleigh, I landed at Pulaski, TN, and
=== message truncated ==
---------------------------------
=== message truncated ==
---------------------------------
at 1/min.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | a comment on brakes |
Just thinking out loud here as I clean up and overhaul the brakes on 41CC.
They are labeled Cessna brakes and even if they are off of the smallest
modern Cessna airplane, the C150, they should be more than anyone would ever
need on a Piet. The C150 has a max gross of 1600 lbs. and an empty weight
of nearly more than the Piet's max gross, not to mention 100HP as standard.
Should be more than adequate for holding an A65 on runup or on a full power
short-field takeoff, and certainly for landing duty. Good choice, Corky.
All I'm doing is cleaning, stripping paint and repainting, replacing O-rings
on the wheel cylinder pistons, and replacing the aluminum brake lines with
Nylaflow tubing. The aluminum kinked when the gear folded up.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: a comment on brakes |
While you are at it change the 0 rings in the cylinders.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Buzz |
Steve - I have an empty seat in a glastar, if you want a ride to Brodhead.
Just have to leave earlier that week :)
Cheers
jon apfelbaum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seals/Prop |
Barry,
Just today put on Hall VG's from Spruce, cheapest of the various suppliers,
on my Osprey. For $186 got roll of 3M electricians tape, bottle of Pliobond
rubber adhesive and 46 slightly curved VG's plus 16 flat VG's (for underside
tail feathers). I ended up just using the Vg's and my own
polyurethane/silicone adhesive. Anyway, kinda expensive but they wind
tunnelled these and give a good explanation of where to put them. I need to
put them for sure on the Osprey because of the funny flight characteristics
of this homebuilt and it's loss of tailfeather effectiveness with loss of
power. I have a o-235 on the Piete and am kinda big (6'4"/260 lbs) for a
Piete. Moved the engine out front with longer motor mount, battery forward
too, for CG reasons. Think the Vg's will help the tail don't know about the
stall etc. Due to the cost, think I'll make my own trial VG's for the Piete
out of plastic L extrusions first, then maybe a $186 set of al from Hall.
The Vg manufacturers don't do much with homebuilts regarding testing
effectiveness with wind tunnelling, except Longezes and RV's. Googling
"vortex generators", provide lots of info about using these on storebought
planes. But the guys here in Homer swear by them on their Supercubs, etc.
We'll see if the price was worth it.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:56 AM
>
> I would be very interested in your experimentation on vortex generators. I
> hope you keep the group informed on your progress and results.
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM
>
>
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>> Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped
>> with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus
>> the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell
>> me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all
>> the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL.
>> Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you
>> have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all
>> will be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.
>> Gordon Bowen
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM
>>
>>
>> BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while
>> building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built
>> without them, I would like your recommendations.
>>
>> I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.
>> That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all
>> this talk
>> about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
>> from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their
>> planes
>> were built.
>>
>> I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing
>> gap
>> seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies
>> slightly
>> nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
>> changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
>> more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
>> plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the
>> wings
>> and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
>> months.
>>
>> As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Mike King
>> GN-1
>> 77MK
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seals/Prop |
Gordon,
Thanks for the thought. I don't know that much about vortex generators
and would like to see a few pictures of your planes in Homer, AK
using them. I know people say Piets and GN-1s fly like Cubs, but
that is so far from the truth. I did my tailwheel checkout in a Cub before
I flew my GN-1. When I flew my plane, it did NOT fly like a Cub......no
glide ratio, float, etc...... When you pull the throttle, back it is going straight
down.
Now, I am thinking about a combination of vortex generators and/or
gap seals.
Thanks Gordon for the input.
Best regards,
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Mike,
Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped with
vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus the
normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell me it
makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all the
time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. Maybe
someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you have.
Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will be glad
to know that the salmon are running just fine.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM
BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while
building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built
without them, I would like your recommendations.
I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.
That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this
talk
about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations
from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planes
were built.
I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap
seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies
slightly
nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid
changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even
more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the
plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings
and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer
months.
As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly
appreciated.
Thanks.
Mike King
GN-1
77MK
Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
I am interested. Give me the details on completion of the deal.
Thanks
John Recine
-----Original Message-----
Have the set (4) of Bengelis books and will probably never open any again.
$40 plus UPS if anyone is interested.
Corky
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Piet on Barnstormers |
For anyone who is looking to buy a Piet, there is one listed at
Barnstormers for $6000. It's in Kansas. I'm not interested, but
someone on the list may be. The ad states:
PIETENPOL * $6,000 * LIGHT-SPORT AIRCRAFT FOR SALE! * June annual
continental 65 400 hours, new eyebrows, senchese prop, push to talk
buttons, built in antenna, Honda wheels with brakes, covers for both
cockpits, Needs a New Home. 785-364-2209. * Contact William E.
McNicholas - located Holton, KS USA * Telephone: 785-364-2209 *
Posted May 8, 2006
And the seller sent the following additional information:
It was built 1969 A guy in Ind it appears to be a Piet There is no
damage history Oct 05 Stored in a hanger.Anual was done in June 95
The only thing I see is that the wings need covered, not because
there bad but the fabric is not very neet looking, an it is the
origeinal. I havenever started it because I am not able to get in it.
There are photos with the ad that appear to be 'vintage'.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seals/Prop |
Just my 2 cents on VG's. I have a Glastar and recently added VG's under the
tail and it made a world of difference. _WWW.Landshorter.com_
(http://www.Landshorter.com) is a place in Idaho that has a good reputation and has done a
fair amount of testing with their VG's. I've been very happy with the
performance and their customer service. 95$ for 100 VG's and the templates and
info, etc. Very reasonable.
Cheers
Jon Apfelbaum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
I found the best price on VG's was at www.landshorter.com I don't know if they're still around, nor have i tried them yet, but I was impressed by the site and their guarantee. I plan to play around with them when the time comes.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of materials |
Here is a copy of the Piet wood kit that AC sells, may help you a little.
Does not include capstrip or plywood. The kit was $800 when I bought mine.
The kit included everything I needed for a long fuselage Piet. Of course you
will need some extra pieces if you widen the fuselage as I did (2").
Rick H
On 6/21/06, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Again, and not to beat a dead horse as far as the research part of this
> project but I need to ask. Does anyone have a good bill of materials that
> they would be willing to share? Something I can uses to do my cost estimates
> with, and locate vendors. It doesn't matter about the format, just something
> that will tell me how much of each size and type material I need in wood
> and metal, now especially the metal part as I may be close to the metal
> acquisition phase as soon as tomorrow afternoon. I realize its rather short
> notice, but I figured with the collective wisdom of the group and the
> opportunity presenting itself to get metal in the next day or two I would at
> least ask.
>
> Any basic listing would be helpful, naturally the more detail the better.
> If ya got anything that's close you are willing to share it would be greatly
> appreciated!
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>
> A note of observation here is that the GN-1 design uses opposing eye bolts
> to attach control
>
> surfaces and the gaps are quite large compared with the Pietenpol design.
>
> Both designs need some sort of aileron seals but the Piet gaps in the
> tailfeathers are nothing to
>
> fuss about.....the GN-1 is another story.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/9dc5359cb7cd74cb90dc90335789231f3b3158e6.GIF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
Pieters,
Have been overwhelmed with Pieters wanting the Bingelis books. Wish I had
enough for all but the first mail was from Ronnie in Mena, Ark who I notified
that they were his if desired. The only reason I have them as Tim said he had
a set when I sold him 311CC so I kept them
Corky
I think this is the last of my Piet and aircraft materials
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | vortex generators |
You're probably not going to find a better price for engineered and tested
vortex generators than those made and sold by EAA'er Joa Harrison and his
lovely wife... see info at
http://www.landshorter.com/. These are injection molded, clear plastic
VGs. Joa is a bush country type of guy, lives in Idaho, works for Quest
Aircraft, the company that makes the Kodiak STOL aircraft.
I have two sets of Joa's VGs for eventual installation and testing on 41CC,
but I want to fly it without them for a while to get baseline performance
data. Then one set will go on the top of the wing and another on the
underside of the horizontal stabilizer, per Joa's instructions.
For you guys who like to "roll your own", there is a very detailed
description on how to make and install your own (made from aluminum), at
http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly18.html ... you can page down
through his excellent description of how to make your own.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airplane assemblers |
I totally agree also Dan. This newsgroup really makes a difference though.
You really have to give credit to those 'pioneers' that built Piets back in
the old days before the Internet, Bingelis books, the EAA and possibly not
contact with any other Piet builders.
Rick H.
On 6/21/06, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I couldn't imagine myself just "putting part "A" in slot "B". It would
> bore
> me to death. I need to exercise my brain, laying awake at night drawing
> imaginary parts in my mind's eye. That is the beauty and fun of the
> Piet.
> Bernard actually did us a huge favor when he left a lot of stuff out of
> the plans
> (even though I have been cussing him of late after I scrapped my second
> set
> of straight axle landing gear struts and fittings).
>
> Dan Helsper
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Ditto for me Chuck. Will trade beer (or whatever else you Jayhawkers drink
around the camp fire) for some front seat time. Have never flown in a Piet.
Rick H
On 6/21/06, Jack T. Textor wrote:
>
> jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
>
> Chuck, please put my name on a build video, ride too!
> Thanks,
>
> Jack Textor
> Driving from Des Moines
>
>
> Yes, of course I'll be there. I'll have a handful of my DVD video's
> with
> me, and maybe even some of the 'Building NX770CG' video. This is the
> fourth
> summer in a row to Brodhead for me. I'm probably going to arrive on
> Thursday,
> and from Brodhead (Saturday or Sunday) I'm heading west to South Dakota
> to
> the Badlands, Mount Rushmore, Chief Crazy Horse, Sturges and Wall Drug.
> I'm
> trying to persuade Sterling B. to accompany me on this leg, in his spam
> can.
> I'm going to try something new this year for my passengers. I now
> have a
> working intercom, and I'm going to install the controls in the front
> pit.
> This will give folks some hands on experience with how she handles.
> Anyone
> wanna give 'er a try ??? Ya just gotta promise you won't kill me...
>
> Chuck Gantzer
> Wichita, KS
> NX770CG
> http://nx770cg.com/
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | a comment on brakes |
Corky, you make a good point about the O-rings in the master cylinders, but
they really looked good as-is and even if I have problems with them, they
are far easier to service than the wheel cylinder ones.
One thing I did find out, that the rest of the world must be aware of but I
wasn't, is that up in the master cylinder plungers there is an adjusting nut
on the underside that is used to set the gap that allows fluid from the
reservoir down into the hydraulic loop, and that it is pretty important to
set that gap properly or else you either get reduced braking efficiency or
more pedal drop as the pads wear. I was reading about brakes in AOPA Pilot
(Feb. issue, I think) and there it was... .040" clearance, if I remember
correctly. I think I just mindlessly twiddled with the adjustment nuts on
my masters when I assembled them and now I need to pull them and set that
gap properly. Since I haven't filled them with fluid yet, it's not a
problem to do it.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <twilliams(at)mailmt.com> |
| Subject: | Any Instructors? |
Does anyone out there know of a flight instructor in the Sarasota Fl.
area that would be interested in instructing me in my Pietenpol?
Thanks Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Any Instructors? |
Ted Brousseau is in Naples....and he's a TW instructor, has a Part Piet he
calls it, Part Piet, Part Grega.
Mike C.
>
>Does anyone out there know of a flight instructor in the Sarasota Fl. area
>that would be interested in instructing me in my Pietenpol?
>Thanks Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Keyes <keyesmp(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 43 Msgs - 06/21/06 |
I'll be at Brodhead this year with my wife and if any of you flyers are gracious
enough, would like to get her into one so she will let me go ahead with building
one (she thinks closed cockpit planes are better, but has been up in Quicksilver
trainers before.)
For that matter, I wouldn't mind a ride myself. Have a set of plans from Don
Pietenpol, my grandmother was his Sunday school teacher in Wykoff, MN and my
Grandpa knew Bernard when he was alive. He helped move the Piet hangar (the one
not at Oshkosh) to its current location at the Fountain, MN museum.
Matt Keyes
Richland Center, WI
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Buzz |
I suppose :)
Altho I was thinking of Steve E in Utah, since that is where the flight will
be originating from.
Cheers
Jon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum Head Ford A |
Help!!
Who is the guy who sells the dual ignition aluminum cylinder head for the
Ford A engine and how can I contact him?
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/22/2006 8:54:31 AM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
Ditto for me Chuck. Will trade beer (or whatever else you Jayhawkers drink
around the camp fire) for some front seat time. Have never flown in a Piet.
Rick H
Sure think, Rick. I like Guiness, but I'm not a Jayhawk...I'm a W Va
Mountaineer !! See ya at Brodhead !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head Ford A |
In a message dated 6/22/2006 11:31:20 PM Central Standard Time,
HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:
Help!!
Who is the guy who sells the dual ignition aluminum cylinder head for the
Ford A engine and how can I contact him?
Dan Helsper
Dan,
Try Dan Price 7320 Sunbury Road Delaware County Wresterville, Oh.43082
(614) 891-2882. Send a sase. for his info. He offers 3 different
heads. Stock looking 6to1, duel plug 6to1 and a finned 7to 1.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head Ford A |
Thanks Chuck for the Dan Price aluminum head info. I couldn't find anything
on the internet on it. Any feedback from anybody on the quality or
performance of these?
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Jayhawk, Mountaineer----not, CHEESE HEADS ! |
I used to tell Karen while driving thru Chicago "when in Chicago, drive
like a Chicagoan"
and once we cross the border into Wisconsin we instantly go from
Mountaineer, Jayhawk, Buckeye, Longhorn, or
otherwise to Cheese Heads. When at Brodhead, become a Cheese Head:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Matt writes-
>I'll be at Brodhead this year with my wife and if any of you flyers are
>gracious
>enough, would like to get her into one
That would be Mike Cuy, if he were taking his Piet this year. He seems to
have this thing about helping ladies up into the front cockpit. A little
boost "here and there" seems to do it... ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey guys,
This is more of a "thinking out loud" email. I have a stack of old
Pietenpol newsletters that covers about fifteen years, and what a HUGE
gift they have been to me as piet lover and builder. Not only for
advice and ideas, but for inspiration and comraderie.
The Brodhead group newsletter seems to have dwindled away, which is a
shame. I know that these things take a lot of dedication and work from
a core group of people, and when that core group gets tired or fed up,
the thing dies out.
(again, just thinking out loud) I wonder if enough guys from our group
committed to helping, could a little "piet rag" type newsletter be
started which incorporated a lot of topics we discuss on line, some old
articles, and updates and photos of new and old projects and stories.
There seems to me to be no shortage of material. Maybe something that
came out three times a year, which would give us time to get lots of
articles and tons of photos so people would really want them.
It also seems that the old newsletter and group really got the Piet
thing growing a lot during those years. It gave people motivation and
knowledge, but it also gave them a sense of comraderie as a "group"
sharing a commong passion. Not only that, but it's always a great boost
to hear of how many other projects are going, and at what stage they're
at.
I'm likely opening a big can of worms, but it's a thought that's been
in my head for a couple of years now.
Douwe
ps. since my Piet should be done this year and I don't have my license
yet, I've been plugging away at it for the last eighteen months and
passed my ckride yesterday!! I'm a pilot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
Congratulations Douwe on the checkride!
Now, I may be sticking my neck out but I can do a newsletter pretty easily.
I do one for the Travel Air group currently and can add the Piet with no
real proble. I can post a copy of my latest Travel Air newsletter (completed
yesterday) online as a pdf if anyone is interested.
-john-
> Hey guys,
>
> This is more of a "thinking out loud" email. I have a stack of old Pietenpol
> newsletters that covers about fifteen years, and what a HUGE gift they have
> been to me as piet lover and builder. Not only for advice and ideas, but for
> inspiration and comraderie.
>
> The Brodhead group newsletter seems to have dwindled away, which is a shame.
> I know that these things take a lot of dedication and work from a core group
> of people, and when that core group gets tired or fed up, the thing dies out.
>
> (again, just thinking out loud) I wonder if enough guys from our group
> committed to helping, could a little "piet rag" type newsletter be started
> which incorporated a lot of topics we discuss on line, some old articles, and
> updates and photos of new and old projects and stories. There seems to me to
> be no shortage of material. Maybe something that came out three times a year,
> which would give us time to get lots of articles and tons of photos so people
> would really want them.
>
> It also seems that the old newsletter and group really got the Piet thing
> growing a lot during those years. It gave people motivation and knowledge,
> but it also gave them a sense of comraderie as a "group" sharing a commong
> passion. Not only that, but it's always a great boost to hear of how many
> other projects are going, and at what stage they're at.
>
> I'm likely opening a big can of worms, but it's a thought that's been in my
> head for a couple of years now.
>
> Douwe
>
> ps. since my Piet should be done this year and I don't have my license yet,
> I've been plugging away at it for the last eighteen months and passed my
> ckride yesterday!! I'm a pilot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
ps. since my Piet should be done this year and I don't have my
license yet, I've been plugging away at it for the last eighteen months
and passed my ckride yesterday!! I'm a pilot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You passed your checkride!!!! that's great! Congratulations.....
Jim in Pryor OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head Ford A |
Dan Price apparently does not market the head any more. He's removed it
from his website. I got one of the last ones he had. I found the
workmanship lacking (water passages undrilled), customer support
non-existant and common courtesy absolutely absent. I suggest getting in
touch with Charlie Yapp at "Secrets of Speed Society" 513/724-0700,
cy4fn(at)aol.com. I suggest buying a sample copy of his quarterly. I don't
know of any other dual ignition AL heads, but there are some DI iron
heads out there. Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Head Ford A
Thanks Chuck for the Dan Price aluminum head info. I couldn't find
anything on the internet on it. Any feedback from anybody on the
quality or performance of these?
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Congratulations, Douwe-! Let's get a piece of that shirttail cut off and
put on the wall! Did you take your checkride in a taildragger? Will you
need to get a tailwheel endorsement? Assuming you are talking Private Pilot
and not Rec. or Sport.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high density
operations with somewhat marginally
powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a fly-in,
not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally designed to
carry people of smaller stature from the
depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes into
account safety first: beauty and appeal of
those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes, Mike, I understand why you prefer lady passengers. As a matter of
fact, I already am working with a clothing manufacturer on a line of ladies'
Pietenpol Flying Shorts (I'm tentatively calling the line "Cuy in the Sky",
pending your approval).
The shorts will be a durable khaki fabric and will feature cargo pockets on
the front for general utility purposes, and on the -ahem- backside is
embroidered a handprint and the words, "I got a ride in Mike Cuy's Piet and
all I got was this pat on my tush!"
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
Please post the newsletter or send it straight to my email
bed(at)mindspring.com
I might be able to contribute an article or two every now and then.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:05 AM
>
>
> Congratulations Douwe on the checkride!
>
> Now, I may be sticking my neck out but I can do a newsletter pretty
> easily.
> I do one for the Travel Air group currently and can add the Piet with no
> real proble. I can post a copy of my latest Travel Air newsletter
> (completed
> yesterday) online as a pdf if anyone is interested.
>
> -john-
>
>> Hey guys,
>>
>> This is more of a "thinking out loud" email. I have a stack of old
>> Pietenpol
>> newsletters that covers about fifteen years, and what a HUGE gift they
>> have
>> been to me as piet lover and builder. Not only for advice and ideas,
>> but for
>> inspiration and comraderie.
>>
>> The Brodhead group newsletter seems to have dwindled away, which is a
>> shame.
>> I know that these things take a lot of dedication and work from a core
>> group
>> of people, and when that core group gets tired or fed up, the thing dies
>> out.
>>
>> (again, just thinking out loud) I wonder if enough guys from our group
>> committed to helping, could a little "piet rag" type newsletter be
>> started
>> which incorporated a lot of topics we discuss on line, some old articles,
>> and
>> updates and photos of new and old projects and stories. There seems to
>> me to
>> be no shortage of material. Maybe something that came out three times a
>> year,
>> which would give us time to get lots of articles and tons of photos so
>> people
>> would really want them.
>>
>> It also seems that the old newsletter and group really got the Piet thing
>> growing a lot during those years. It gave people motivation and
>> knowledge,
>> but it also gave them a sense of comraderie as a "group" sharing a
>> commong
>> passion. Not only that, but it's always a great boost to hear of how
>> many
>> other projects are going, and at what stage they're at.
>>
>> I'm likely opening a big can of worms, but it's a thought that's been in
>> my
>> head for a couple of years now.
>>
>> Douwe
>>
>> ps. since my Piet should be done this year and I don't have my license
>> yet,
>> I've been plugging away at it for the last eighteen months and passed my
>> ckride yesterday!! I'm a pilot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Jayhawk, Mountaineer----not, CHEESE HEADS ! |
In a message dated 6/23/2006 7:17:42 AM Central Standard Time,
Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
When at Brodhead, become a Cheese Head:)
Hey, speaking of Cheese Heads, the fresh cheese curds (I think that's what
they're called) are to die for up there. Dennis E. gave me some. I've never
had them before I went to Wisconson, and they are the Bomb !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jayhawk, Mountaineer----not, CHEESE HEADS ! |
Back in '02 Isabelle and I lunched at a local Brodhead cafe. I selected a
local beer, either brewed in Brodhead or near vicinity, and I want to recommend
it highly from someone who has been sipping suds since prohibition times.
Hell of a lot more body and taste than Miller Lite and others.
The old sot in Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
John,
I'm pretty sure we're all interested to see the Travel Air newsletter
you put together.
As for a Pietenpol newsletter, I would love to see one re-established.
Subscribers to this list may remember that about a year ago, there was
an attempt to "share" the old, out of print, no longer available for
sale, copies of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association newsletters. That all
came to a screeching halt when Grant Maclaren made it clear that he held
the copyright to those newsletters, and did NOT give anyone permission
to copy or redistribute them (as I am sure a certain former resident of
Plano, Texas remembers clearly). As a result, most of the information
that Douwe was talking about is not available to latecomers (like me).
Now, I realize that the advent of the Internet has made photocopying and
mailing seem antiquated, and cumbersome, and maybe even unfeasible, but
there's still something to be said for reading a hard copy, as opposed
to a printout on a video screen. And paper copies of a newsletter are
much more likely to be around long after the digital "ones and zeros"
have been mis-filed, or disappeared as a result of a computer crash, or
saved on a media format that has since become obsolete. I think that if
a new Pietenpol newsletter was to be established, it could be set up
with two "options"; one option being the digital newsletter, in PDF
format, that subscribers would receive electronically, and print out if
they so desire. The other option being the old-fashioned paper
newsletter, sent via snail mail, for those who do not have internet
access. Logically, there would be two subscription prices, with the
paper copy obviously being more expensive. Or, maybe a paper copy is
just too big a headache.
My gut feeling is that most of us would be interested in such a
newsletter, but maybe I'm wrong.
In any case, thanks for sticking your neck out.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Sent: June 23, 2006 10:15 AM
-->
Now, I may be sticking my neck out but I can do a newsletter pretty
easily.
I do one for the Travel Air group currently and can add the Piet with no
real proble. I can post a copy of my latest Travel Air newsletter
(completed
yesterday) online as a pdf if anyone is interested.
-john-
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 6/23/2006 11:32:08 AM Central Standard Time,
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
As a guy who spent first 20 years of life in WV and still has roots there
('eers never leave they just go away), I can say Corn Likker or 'shine is still
available and more tasty than ever, assumin' it's been "laid-up" jest right.
Don't get testy Chuck, just a funnin' ya.
Gordon Bowen
Homer AK/Paden City, West By God Virginia.
Hey !! Another 'eer !!
At ar Corn Likker sure feels good, burnin' all the way down !! Gotta be
careful flyin' Low & Slow over one o' em ar stills...ya just mite git shot !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
Travel Air Newsletter Posted Here:
http://www.reesgroupinc.com/TravelAir13_2screen.pdf
If enough are interested and can contribute, I will get a good Piet one
going again.
-john-
>
> Please post the newsletter or send it straight to my email
> bed(at)mindspring.com
> I might be able to contribute an article or two every now and then.
> Barry
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:05 AM
>
>
>>
>>
>> Congratulations Douwe on the checkride!
>>
>> Now, I may be sticking my neck out but I can do a newsletter pretty
>> easily.
>> I do one for the Travel Air group currently and can add the Piet with no
>> real proble. I can post a copy of my latest Travel Air newsletter
>> (completed
>> yesterday) online as a pdf if anyone is interested.
>>
>> -john-
>>
>>> Hey guys,
>>>
>>> This is more of a "thinking out loud" email. I have a stack of old
>>> Pietenpol
>>> newsletters that covers about fifteen years, and what a HUGE gift they
>>> have
>>> been to me as piet lover and builder. Not only for advice and ideas,
>>> but for
>>> inspiration and comraderie.
>>>
>>> The Brodhead group newsletter seems to have dwindled away, which is a
>>> shame.
>>> I know that these things take a lot of dedication and work from a core
>>> group
>>> of people, and when that core group gets tired or fed up, the thing dies
>>> out.
>>>
>>> (again, just thinking out loud) I wonder if enough guys from our group
>>> committed to helping, could a little "piet rag" type newsletter be
>>> started
>>> which incorporated a lot of topics we discuss on line, some old articles,
>>> and
>>> updates and photos of new and old projects and stories. There seems to
>>> me to
>>> be no shortage of material. Maybe something that came out three times a
>>> year,
>>> which would give us time to get lots of articles and tons of photos so
>>> people
>>> would really want them.
>>>
>>> It also seems that the old newsletter and group really got the Piet thing
>>> growing a lot during those years. It gave people motivation and
>>> knowledge,
>>> but it also gave them a sense of comraderie as a "group" sharing a
>>> commong
>>> passion. Not only that, but it's always a great boost to hear of how
>>> many
>>> other projects are going, and at what stage they're at.
>>>
>>> I'm likely opening a big can of worms, but it's a thought that's been in
>>> my
>>> head for a couple of years now.
>>>
>>> Douwe
>>>
>>> ps. since my Piet should be done this year and I don't have my license
>>> yet,
>>> I've been plugging away at it for the last eighteen months and passed my
>>> ckride yesterday!! I'm a pilot!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Vought" <carbarvo(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Head Ford A |
You might also want to check out "Sacramento Vintage
Ford"...www.vintageford.com..888-4-BANGER. They have parts for stock and for
modified Model-As. On page 703 of their current catalog is shown an aluminum
DI head that looks just like the Dan Price head...Carl Vought
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:20 PM
>
> Help!!
> Who is the guy who sells the dual ignition aluminum cylinder head for the
> Ford A engine and how can I contact him?
>
> Dan Helsper
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
WOW! The Travel Air Newsletter really is 1st Class. The Piet Group has
never had anything of this quality before and a newsletter for Piets
would be greatly appreciated.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesign" <Catdesign(at)intergate.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
What happened to the Broadhead Pietenpol Newsletter?
I let my subscription laps after its first year. Their website is still up http://www.pietenpol.org/index.html
Instead of starting a new one, why not contact them and see if you can continue
it or help them out. Cant imaging it is/was a for profit venture.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=42644#42644
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
Yep, Chuck
Dem real 'eers, up in some holler somewheres is gonna shoot ya thinkin'
yer one of dem damn Revenuers trying to shut down the still. But best
'Shine I ever had came from an ole boy in Pigeon Forge TN., it had been
"mellared fer a'yar" in old wine barrels somewhere up in the hills
bordering TN and NC. Hope the Revenuers never catch that guy.
Gordon
WVU Class '68
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ah goodie !
In a message dated 6/23/2006 11:32:08 AM Central Standard Time,
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
As a guy who spent first 20 years of life in WV and still has roots
there ('eers never leave they just go away), I can say Corn Likker or
'shine is still available and more tasty than ever, assumin' it's been
"laid-up" jest right. Don't get testy Chuck, just a funnin' ya.
Gordon Bowen
Homer AK/Paden City, West By God Virginia.
Hey !! Another 'eer !!
At ar Corn Likker sure feels good, burnin' all the way down !! Gotta
be careful flyin' Low & Slow over one o' em ar stills...ya just mite git
shot !!
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lady passengers |
Which begs the question:
How do you politely and delicately decline the request of a ride from
someone who is on the "portly" side without sounding like a pompous jerk?
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:51 AM
>
>
>
> Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high density
> operations with somewhat marginally
>
> powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a fly-in,
> not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
>
> who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally designed
> to carry people of smaller stature from the
>
> depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes into
> account safety first: beauty and appeal of
>
> those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jayhawk, Mountaineer----not, CHEESE HEADS ! |
Now that Mikee has everyone all fired up about Brodhead and Chuck G. is an
honorary curd eating (we batter fried them when I was a kid) Cheese Head, it
is time to talk of other traditions of this area. The Brodhead EAA bunch
does a great job of feeding the masses. I lust over the pork chops on
Saturday. This is one they repeat the weekend after Labor Day for the MAAC
fly in. However, as any good Wisconsinite can attest (Fred B. back me up on
this), we prefer our Friday Night Fish Fry instead of a fish boil. You can't
swing a dead cat around here without hitting a good fish fry. So I find I
can't bring myself to the blasphemy of the boil.
Therefore, I chose to partake in another tradition of the north and that is
the bratwurst. Mike and Jack will not be joining me on Friday this year
(although I promised Mike a Sunday sausage...not liking how that sounds) so
I have room for a few souls for a small feed. I plan on picking up some
choice meats (apple brats and the Great White) in New Glarus along with some
local brews. Boiled up with beer and onions and finished on the grill, there
are few finer meals. It is also guaranteed to bring out the finest in male
gassiness. So, if some would like to join me for a meal or just a taste, let
me know soon and we will meet up in the woods for a traditional Wisconsin
meal and I would enjoy the company.
-john-
> In a message dated 6/23/2006 7:17:42 AM Central Standard Time,
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:
>> When at Brodhead, become a Cheese Head:)
> Hey, speaking of Cheese Heads, the fresh cheese curds (I think that's what
> they're called) are to die for up there. Dennis E. gave me some. I've never
> had them before I went to Wisconson, and they are the Bomb !!
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
If the person has any sence at all and they look like me at 215lbs 5'4"
then they should know better than to ask.Due to my size I will be test
flying my own aircraft and rightly so.It is as it should be.One of the
pilots that overheard my plight once said maybe if the pilot carried
less fuel then it could be done.I said no if I'm the wrong weight then
so be it.I cannot and will not ask another pilot to fly me in such an
aircraft.Besides I still think that front seat is a death trap and I'm
probably going to draw some rath for that one but it is my belief.Right
or wrong.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gcardinal
Sent: June 23, 2006 8:01 PM
Which begs the question:
How do you politely and delicately decline the request of a ride from
someone who is on the "portly" side without sounding like a pompous
jerk?
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:51 AM
>
>
>
> Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high
density
> operations with somewhat marginally
>
> powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a
fly-in,
> not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
>
> who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally
designed
> to carry people of smaller stature from the
>
> depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes
into
> account safety first: beauty and appeal of
>
> those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: lady passengers |
Shouldn't that be "A push on my tush." ?? :-)
Clif
>
>
"I got a ride in Mike Cuy's Piet and
> all I got was this pat on my tush!"
>
> Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | 3rd flight report |
My first two flights in NX18235 were flown on calm evenings, no wind, no
bumps. The flights were pure bliss with the airplane feeling solid and
very easy to fly and land.
The third flight was conducted with winds of 16 kts gusting to 20.
Woo Hoo! This was a whole different experience.
I arrived at Stanton with the wind sock horizontal and wind direction
right down the runway. I waited around for an hour to see if the winds
would quiet down. After an hour the windsock was only slightly less
horizontal. I decided to launch and fly around for an hour assuming the
winds would die down. Bad assumption.
Taxiing in that wind was very challenging with a skid. It required lots
of short bursts of power with lots of rudder.
I managed to get lined up on rwy 26 and powered up. Tail came up
normally and I was airborne after a 100' ground run. At 10' above the
ground I could sense the beginnings of some bumpiness when a gust of
wind hit me on the nose and I was almost instantly at 100' agl.
My first thought was "I don't really want to be up here right now".
I climbed to 500' agl on a northerly track and had to hold a 45 degree
crab angle. I turned west and headed directly into a headwind that left
me with an estimated groundspeed of about 25 - 30 mph.
I had to fight the gnarly beast for the entire flight. I felt like I was
just herding and coaxing the plane in the general direction I wanted to
travel. It was a struggle on all three axis'and required constant and
aggressive control inputs.
I was thinking about every glue joint, every bolt and cotter pin and
every weld.
To those of you building I say get into your Zen mode and do everything
right and proper so your not wondering about the structure during a
hairy flight.
After an hour of this abuse I headed back to Stanton for a landing. It
was still very rough and I didn't know what to expect during the
landing.
I kept some power and speed in reserve on final and came in rather
steeply to keep the nose down.
In the flare my groundspeed was only about 10 - 15 mph and I rolled no
more than 50' after touchdown.
Taxiing was impossible at this point with the wind so I shut down and
walked the plane back to the hangar.
It was a good confidence building flight but I can't imagine flying any
appreciable distance like that.
Contemplating the flight after the hangar door was shut and locked I
concluded that it was a most satisfying evening.
Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | 3rd flight report |
My first two flights in NX18235 were flown on calm evenings, no wind, no
bumps. The flights were pure bliss with the airplane feeling solid and
very easy to fly and land.
The third flight was conducted with winds of 16 kts gusting to 20.
Woo Hoo! This was a whole different experience.
I arrived at Stanton with the wind sock horizontal and wind direction
right down the runway. I waited around for an hour to see if the winds
would quiet down. After an hour the windsock was only slightly less
horizontal. I decided to launch and fly around for an hour assuming the
winds would die down. Bad assumption.
Taxiing in that wind was very challenging with a skid. It required lots
of short bursts of power with lots of rudder.
I managed to get lined up on rwy 26 and powered up. Tail came up
normally and I was airborne after a 100' ground run. At 10' above the
ground I could sense the beginnings of some bumpiness when a gust of
wind hit me on the nose and I was almost instantly at 100' agl.
My first thought was "I don't really want to be up here right now".
I climbed to 500' agl on a northerly track and had to hold a 45 degree
crab angle. I turned west and headed directly into a headwind that left
me with an estimated groundspeed of about 25 - 30 mph.
I had to fight the gnarly beast for the entire flight. I felt like I was
just herding and coaxing the plane in the general direction I wanted to
travel. It was a struggle on all three axis'and required constant and
aggressive control inputs.
I was thinking about every glue joint, every bolt and cotter pin and
every weld.
To those of you building I say get into your Zen mode and do everything
right and proper so your not wondering about the structure during a
hairy flight.
After an hour of this abuse I headed back to Stanton for a landing. It
was still very rough and I didn't know what to expect during the
landing.
I kept some power and speed in reserve on final and came in rather
steeply to keep the nose down.
In the flare my groundspeed was only about 10 - 15 mph and I rolled no
more than 50' after touchdown.
Taxiing was impossible at this point with the wind so I shut down and
walked the plane back to the hangar.
It was a good confidence building flight but I can't imagine flying any
appreciable distance like that.
Contemplating the flight after the hangar door was shut and locked I
concluded that it was a most satisfying evening.
Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fish fries, newsletters, etc |
Yep, fish fries are very popular on Friday nights around Wisconsin. In fact,
I missed my weekly dose last night (had a chicken sandwich instead as I'm
trying to lose some tonnage and make the Piet fly well when she's finished!) and
so I'm suffering with a little withdrawal this morning.
I still maintain that Grant McLAren doesn't own the copyright to the old BPA
newsletters -- as the editor he was working for the BPA. The dues paying
members paid for the newsletter and therefore if anyone owns the copyright it is
they, especially if Grant was reimbursed for the printing costs, etc. That said,
I'd be willing to contribute articles/photos for a new newsletter...of
course, my Piet isn't flying yet, so don't know how much material I can contribute...
Guinness -- reminds me of the story about the brew masters convention. All
the brew masters from around the world were there and after a hard day of
seminars and workshops they all gathered for happy hour in the local watering hole.
The barkeep asked the fellow from Miller what he'd like to drink. He replied,
"Miller High Life, of course! The champagne of bottled beers!"
The barkeep turned to Bud guy and asked for his request. "I'll have a Bud --
the King of Beers!" And the guy from La Crosse's City Brewing asked for a La
Crosse City Lager. In turn each brew master asked for a bottle of their own
beer.
Turning to the Guinness brew master the barkeep asked, "What'll you have?"
The Guinness man said, "I'll have an ice-cold Coca-Cola."
The other brew masters about choked and asked the Guinness man what the heck
was wrong, to which the Guinness man sneered, "Well, when you all decide to
order beer, I'll order beer!"
Regards,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks everyone for their congrats on my pilot's license!
got it in a Cessna (sorry!) but am now working on my tailwheel
endorsement in a cub.
Regarding a possible newsletter, here are my thoughts. Please respond
or contact me with your thoughts and if you are interested in seriously
helping.
I think that a "marque" of airplane or car benefits greatly from a good
newsletter. It helps develop a hardcore following and allows them to
communicate, learn from eachother and develops a sense of comraderie
within the following. I think the Piet benefited greatly from the
wonderful newsletter of the eighties and nineties. The Brodhead
newsletter seems to have petered out. It was very nice, but the last
few years have been very light in terms of content and interest. This
seems to be the pitfall of these volunteer newsletters however. The
idea sounds good, lots of people offer to help, and then the enthusiasm
runs out leaving a few "doers" to slog through with their commitment.
Maybe some of those guys would be willing to share their experiences.
We have a wonderful offer from John Hofmann (ck out the incredible
Travel Air newsletter he does!) to put one together. So I'm thinking,
what if we got together a "core" group of people who have the time and
energy to make a commitment to something like this, and talk about
getting a newsletter together. If we only tried for three a year, this
would make the workload relatively spread out, and would make them
bigger, more interesting reading.
We could write articles, get others to do so, track down piet
owners/builders/flyers and get their stories and photos.
I would be willing to participate for one. I can write, and get others
to contribute and will commit to stick with it to keep the Piet alive
and well.
thoughts?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | grant maclaren contact info |
Can someone get me Grant MacClaren's contact info?
Regardless of past experiences, I'd like to contact him to at least get
his advice on what it takes to run a good newsletter. He certainly did
a great one for a long time.
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)mailbag.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Newsletter |
Hey!
Are ANY of you guys aware of the BRODHEAD PIETENPOL ASSOCIATION
Newsletter published four times per year?
Good articles, news from builder's, construction tips, ads for parts or
planes for sale, and a lot of good stories.
$16.00/yr.
Broodhead Pietenpol Association
c/o The Independent Register
P.O. Box 255
Brodhead, WI. 53520-0255
Roman Bukolt, Corvair Piet in process
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fish fries, newsletters, etc |
I agree with Fred on the copyright thing. I have a set of the old
newsletters & nowhere in any of them does it state that the material
is copyrighted. There is a statement that the newsletter is intended
for BPA members only, but what's to prevent a member form copying &
distributing material if he/she sees fit? - nothing so far as I can
see. I think Grant is blowing smoke - if he's not, then he should
produce proof of the copyright, not just threaten people. Even if he
did have a copyright, it would only be for those issues he edited -
Frank Pavliga & his Dad did all the early BPA newsletters & Frank has
never said one word regarding his belief that he has ownership or
non-ownership of that material.
Right now, I'm pretty much out of the loop of aviation - I'm
simultaneously looking for a new job, buying a 46-acre farm near
Wooster, OH with several partners, and running a market garden out of
my back yard on the side, so life is pretty hectic. I did get a
little work done on the Corvair engine this spring, but that's all.
The EAA Chapter 82 Corvair Wings & Wheels Fly-In was a sucess despite
the fact tha William Wynne decided not to come & the weather prevent
all but a couple of planes from coming. However, Bill clapp showed
up wirth his KR-2S & did a great job of demonstrating its
capabilities. We also had nearly 20 cars show up from as far away as
Detroit and Eastern PA, including a truly cool, beautifully
maintained, Corvair-powered Porsch ("Porschair"). Most importantly,
everyone who came had a good time.
If things settle down on the job hunt & farm purchase deal I might
try to hitch a ride to Brodhead with somebody - otherwise, I'll have
to sit this year out.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
> I still maintain that Grant McLAren doesn't own the copyright to
>the old BPA newsletters -- as the editor he was working for the BPA.
>The dues paying members paid for the newsletter and therefore if
>anyone owns the copyright it is they, especially if Grant was
>reimbursed for the printing costs, etc. That said, I'd be willing to
>contribute articles/photos for a new newsletter...of course, my Piet
>isn't flying yet, so don't know how much material I can contribute...
Regards,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Newsletter |
Romman,
Yep, a lot of us are. I subscribed for 4+ yrs. & it was OK, but I
felt it was lacking in "meat" as it were. I understand the reasons
for that & several people have made comments about how hard it is to
keep something like that going at a level that's attractive to a wide
audience. At this point, I think I have access to much more than
enough informatiton to get my project done & it's more important to
put my focus on making time to work on it than on reading newsletters
& such. Not to say that the BPA newsletter doesn't have value, just
not my current need or want.
Kip Gardner
>Hey!
>Are ANY of you guys aware of the BRODHEAD PIETENPOL ASSOCIATION
>Newsletter published four times per year?
>Good articles, news from builder's, construction tips, ads for parts
>or planes for sale, and a lot of good stories.
>
>$16.00/yr.
>
>Broodhead Pietenpol Association
>c/o The Independent Register
>P.O. Box 255
>Brodhead, WI. 53520-0255
>
>Roman Bukolt, Corvair Piet in process
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jayhawk, Mountaineer----not, CHEESE HEADS ! |
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jayhawk, Mountaineer----not, CHEESE HEADS
!
Back in '02 Isabelle and I lunched at a local Brodhead cafe. I
selected a local beer, either brewed in Brodhead or near vicinity, and I
want to recommend it highly from someone who has been sipping suds since
prohibition times. Hell of a lot more body and taste than Miller Lite
and others.
The old sot in Louisiana
I agree Corky. If I want a good "cleaning out" I just have one bottle
of a Miller product. Doesnt matter what it is as long as it says Miller
somewhere on the label.
Just a few sips and I'm good to "go" for days! Problem is I cant go
anywhere beyond sprinting distance to a restroom.
Dave...(on the "run") down in Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lady passengers |
Hey Greg try this.............tee-hee-hee
You have a huge amount of redundant tissue to cram into my front seat. Get lost!
You have an anterior bulge to great to keep my nose of the Airplane in the air!
Is that cranial rectal inversion or are you pregnant? Either way, you are not
going to fit in my front seat!
Lastly and my favorite....How do you expect me to cram a sack of potatoes into
a cup? Ain't happenen............
Sincerely,
Midwest poet
gcardinal wrote:
Which begs the question:
How do you politely and delicately decline the request of a ride from
someone who is on the "portly" side without sounding like a pompous jerk?
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:51 AM
>
>
>
> Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high density
> operations with somewhat marginally
>
> powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a fly-in,
> not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
>
> who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally designed
> to carry people of smaller stature from the
>
> depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes into
> account safety first: beauty and appeal of
>
> those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fish fries, newsletters, etc |
Kip,
With United States law there does not have to be any notice of copyright. The
copy right is automatically granted the creator of the document and remains his
until he sells or gives it to someone else.
mike
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:58:49 AM
I agree with Fred on the copyright thing. I have a set of the old newsletters
& nowhere in any of them does it state that the material is copyrighted. There
is a statement that the newsletter is intended for BPA members only, but what's
to prevent a member form copying & distributing material if he/she sees fit?
- nothing so far as I can see. I think Grant is blowing smoke - if he's not,
then he should produce proof of the copyright, not just threaten people.
Even if he did have a copyright, it would only be for those issues he edited -
Frank Pavliga & his Dad did all the early BPA newsletters & Frank has never said
one word regarding his belief that he has ownership or non-ownership of that
material.
Right now, I'm pretty much out of the loop of aviation - I'm simultaneously looking
for a new job, buying a 46-acre farm near Wooster, OH with several partners,
and running a market garden out of my back yard on the side, so life is pretty
hectic. I did get a little work done on the Corvair engine this spring,
but that's all. The EAA Chapter 82 Corvair Wings & Wheels Fly-In was a sucess
despite the fact tha William Wynne decided not to come & the weather prevent
all but a couple of planes from coming. However, Bill clapp showed up wirth his
KR-2S & did a great job of demonstrating its capabilities. We also had nearly
20 cars show up from as far away as Detroit and Eastern PA, including a truly
cool, beautifully maintained, Corvair-powered Porsch ("Porschair"). Most importantly,
everyone who came had a good time.
If things settle down on the job hunt & farm purchase deal I might try to hitch
a ride to Brodhead with somebody - otherwise, I'll have to sit this year out.
Cheers,
Kip Gardner
I still maintain that Grant McLAren doesn't own the copyright to the old BPA newsletters
-- as the editor he was working for the BPA. The dues paying members
paid for the newsletter and therefore if anyone owns the copyright it is they,
especially if Grant was reimbursed for the printing costs, etc. That said,
I'd be willing to contribute articles/photos for a new newsletter...of course,
my Piet isn't flying yet, so don't know how much material I can contribute...
Regards,
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Roman,
I subscribe to the BPA newsletter too, and have enjoyed it... to a
point. As I mentioned in my emails, the substance and regularity seemed
to trail off a couple years ago to the point where I was occassionally
getting a two or four page newsletter with very little of interest.
I respect anyone who has the gumption to get up and freely "do"
something like this and my hat is off to them. It does seem however,
that they need help or to pass the baton.
I'll try to contact them for a status update and pick their brains.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lady passengers |
I don't think I would win may friends with these suggestions.........
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lady passengers
Hey Greg try this.............tee-hee-hee
1.. You have a huge amount of redundant tissue to cram into my front
seat. Get lost!
2.. You have an anterior bulge to great to keep my nose of the
Airplane in the air!
3.. Is that cranial rectal inversion or are you pregnant? Either
way, you are not going to fit in my front seat!
4.. Lastly and my favorite....How do you expect me to cram a sack of
potatoes into a cup? Ain't happenen............
Sincerely,
Midwest poet
gcardinal wrote:
Which begs the question:
How do you politely and delicately decline the request of a ride
from
someone who is on the "portly" side without sounding like a pompous
jerk?
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:51 AM
>
>
>
> Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high
density
> operations with somewhat marginally
>
> powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a
fly-in,
> not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
>
> who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally
designed
> to carry people of smaller stature from the
>
> depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes
into
> account safety first: beauty and appeal of
>
> those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flywrite(at)hughes.net" <flywrite(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
As a magazine publisher with some experience with copyrights, I believe
someone has misinformed Mike Volckermann about copyright law. The U.S.
Patent and Copyright Office (www.uspto.gov) does not automatically
issue a copyright, nor does any other agency do so. Indeed, a copyright
can be issued only after the applicant has filed an application, paid
the requisite fee, and the application referred to an examiner. If the
examiner finds the application acceptable in its own right, and does
not infringe upon any other copyright, a certificate of copyright can
be issued. No one can claim that anything is, or has been, copyrighted
unless a certificate has been issued to cover the specific material for
which the copyright is claimed. However, if an applicaton has been
filed, the claimant can use the term "Copyright applied for" to alert
would-be users of the material to the danger of copyright
violation/prosecution.
This has nothing to do per se with the Broadhead newsletter. However,
if the claim is being made that any or all of the newsletters are
covered by a copyright, then an unexpired (or renewed) USPTO copyright
document to that effect would settle the matter once and for all.
In the absence of such a document, I believe a patent attorney would
advise that the material is in the public domain.
Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
Dick,
Thanks for the clarification, I thought this was the case, having
some friends who publish in the music business, but my personal
experience is not there, so I could not authoratatively reply to Mike.
So, my original question stands, does Grant McClaren hold a copyright
for the old issues of the BPA newsletter that he edited or not?
Where's the proof?
I have heard that he has been quite belligerent towards anyone who
has wanted to reprint material, but to my knowledge, he has not
presented any proof to anyone that he holds such a copyright. As I
said before, all of my old copies have absolutely no mention anywhere
in them that the material is copyrighted or that a copyright has been
applied for. In fact, I think that the fact that he put in a
statement that the material is intended for BPA members leads me to
believe that the material IS NOT copyrighted & that he put that
statement there to try to cover his ass without going to the trouble
of getting one, and perhaps as a C-H-A for liability as well.
The reason that I'm making an issue of this is that there is a true
wealth of information in those old issues & it should be available to
the community, not hoarded by Grant as if he were some kind of troll
guarding a treasure.
Kip Gardner
>
>
>As a magazine publisher with some experience with copyrights, I believe
>someone has misinformed Mike Volckermann about copyright law. The U.S.
>Patent and Copyright Office (www.uspto.gov) does not automatically
>issue a copyright, nor does any other agency do so. Indeed, a copyright
>can be issued only after the applicant has filed an application, paid
>the requisite fee, and the application referred to an examiner. If the
>examiner finds the application acceptable in its own right, and does
>not infringe upon any other copyright, a certificate of copyright can
>be issued. No one can claim that anything is, or has been, copyrighted
>unless a certificate has been issued to cover the specific material for
>which the copyright is claimed. However, if an applicaton has been
>filed, the claimant can use the term "Copyright applied for" to alert
>would-be users of the material to the danger of copyright
>violation/prosecution.
>
>This has nothing to do per se with the Broadhead newsletter. However,
>if the claim is being made that any or all of the newsletters are
>covered by a copyright, then an unexpired (or renewed) USPTO copyright
>document to that effect would settle the matter once and for all.
>In the absence of such a document, I believe a patent attorney would
>advise that the material is in the public domain.
>
>Dick Carden
>
>
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lady passengers |
Perhaps a calibrated pole like the buses used to use above a line full fare.
A belt or.......
I think a lightweight bathroom scale in its own fitted compartment under the
front seat. The dial modified to a politically correct with a green or red
zone................or the electronically minded could modify a digital one
to say .....you are accepted or the dreaded "too heavy tooo heavy tooooo
heavy" perhaps even a ignition interlock to prevent trying.....
Steve in Maine
>From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lady passengers
>Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 08:03:05 -0500
>
>I don't think I would win may friends with these suggestions.........
>
>Greg
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: KMHeide
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lady passengers
>
>
> Hey Greg try this.............tee-hee-hee
>
> 1.. You have a huge amount of redundant tissue to cram into my front
>seat. Get lost!
> 2.. You have an anterior bulge to great to keep my nose of the
>Airplane in the air!
> 3.. Is that cranial rectal inversion or are you pregnant? Either way,
>you are not going to fit in my front seat!
> 4.. Lastly and my favorite....How do you expect me to cram a sack of
>potatoes into a cup? Ain't happenen............
> Sincerely,
>
> Midwest poet
>
> gcardinal wrote:
>
> Which begs the question:
>
> How do you politely and delicately decline the request of a ride from
> someone who is on the "portly" side without sounding like a pompous
>jerk?
>
> Greg C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:51 AM
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high
>density
> > operations with somewhat marginally
> >
> > powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a
>fly-in,
> > not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
> >
> > who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally
>designed
> > to carry people of smaller stature from the
> >
> > depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes
>into
> > account safety first: beauty and appeal of
> >
> > those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
The government does not have to issue a copyright. Nothing must be filed
with the copyright office for the work to be under copyright. Filing with
the copyright office allows for increased penalities if infringed upon.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:07 AM
>
>
> As a magazine publisher with some experience with copyrights, I believe
> someone has misinformed Mike Volckermann about copyright law. The U.S.
> Patent and Copyright Office (www.uspto.gov) does not automatically
> issue a copyright, nor does any other agency do so. Indeed, a copyright
> can be issued only after the applicant has filed an application, paid
> the requisite fee, and the application referred to an examiner. If the
> examiner finds the application acceptable in its own right, and does
> not infringe upon any other copyright, a certificate of copyright can
> be issued. No one can claim that anything is, or has been, copyrighted
> unless a certificate has been issued to cover the specific material for
> which the copyright is claimed. However, if an applicaton has been
> filed, the claimant can use the term "Copyright applied for" to alert
> would-be users of the material to the danger of copyright
> violation/prosecution.
>
> This has nothing to do per se with the Broadhead newsletter. However,
> if the claim is being made that any or all of the newsletters are
> covered by a copyright, then an unexpired (or renewed) USPTO copyright
> document to that effect would settle the matter once and for all.
> In the absence of such a document, I believe a patent attorney would
> advise that the material is in the public domain.
>
> Dick Carden
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
Correct.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
>
>The government does not have to issue a copyright. Nothing must be
>filed with the copyright office for the work to be under copyright.
>Filing with the copyright office allows for increased penalities if
>infringed upon.
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doyle Combs" <doylecombskeith(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
This article makes it clear. It seems to me that there are enough
experienced people on this net who could donate pictures and material to
publish their own publication without arguing with someone who has produced
material in the past. Mike, why don't you submit your drawings and other
material that has already been posted on the net and in the archives. Just a
thought. I have read some really great ideas pass through this net.
Doyle Combs
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 2:24 PM
>
> Correct.
>
> http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
>
>
>>
>>
>>The government does not have to issue a copyright. Nothing must be filed
>>with the copyright office for the work to be under copyright. Filing with
>>the copyright office allows for increased penalities if infringed upon.
>>
>
> --
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Atlanta, GA 30322
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
> http://www.molvis.org/
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Guys, (and gals?)
I'm using the old fashioned butyrate dope system over my ceconite. I'm
about ready to start spraying. The first coat must be nitrate dope as
butyrate doesn't adhere to ceconite, whereas nitrate does. The problem
is the only non tautening nitrate I could find was untinted, and I'd
like a little tint to help with even coverage.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might work as a tint? is
there any reason a little rit dye or food coloring wouldn't? (there's
water in there)
thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
There is one thing though that might come up. Publishing an article in a
mag doesn't necessarily give the copyright to the editor or publisher. It
would depend on how the agreement was written. A publication may be given
"one time use rights" which only allows the publication in that months
issue. A magazine can claim a copyright for that issue, but may or may not
hold the copyright for the work itself. The newsletter claiming copyright,
in reality might not have it, but that wouldn't necessarily meant if fell
into public domain either.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:24 PM
>
> Correct.
>
> http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
>
>
>>
>>
>>The government does not have to issue a copyright. Nothing must be filed
>>with the copyright office for the work to be under copyright. Filing with
>>the copyright office allows for increased penalities if infringed upon.
>>
>
> --
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Atlanta, GA 30322
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
> http://www.molvis.org/
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
As a painter and sculptor, when I sell a painting
or sculpture, the only thing I sell is the physical
object itself. I retain the right of copy unless
specifically agreed upon to do otherwise. There
have been cases of the purchaser making
prints of a painting and making copies of a
sculpture where the artist has discovered it
and taken the "owner" to court. In every case
I know of the artist has recovered damages
and the perpetuator penalized.
A few years ago a local artist saw a painting
by another artist that incorporated a small
part of one of his paintings. He successfully
sued. The notoriety was beneficial to BOTH
artists!
A publication such as the BPA or a magazine
may print things submitted by outside parties,
such as you and I, or by their own employed
writers. The first is like my painting, the second
belongs to the publication.There is more to it,
however. If the publication solicits your
services to write something for them then you
have been employed and the work is theirs. If
you submit an unsolicited article on a subject
of your choice with the idea that it may be of
interest to their readers and they buy it from
you then you retain the rights unless you
explicitly sign them away in some fashion, as
Mark has said.
In the case of the BPA we have no idea what
the original contractual agreement was for any
given article. It's no use speculating or assuming
anything either. If you copy the entire newsletter
then that, regardless of what it's comprised of, is
an entity unto itself and owned by the publisher
or, more likely, the company or individual that
owns the publishing company.
The answer is to write your own. Suppose you
want to pass on some important information about
a topic such as standard spin recovery techniques
that you think would be beneficial to the rest of us
Peiters.
In this case the facts are the facts, do this, do that, do
the other thing and you come out the bottom straight.
Copy the original and you break the law. Take those
facts, write about them in your own words and phrases,
and THAT document is yours even though the reader
comes away with exactly the same knowledge from
either article.
Notes from the Convoluted Universe, Clif
>
>
> There is one thing though that might come up. Publishing an article in a
> mag doesn't necessarily give the copyright to the editor or publisher. It
> would depend on how the agreement was written. A publication may be given
> "one time use rights" which only allows the publication in that months
> issue. A magazine can claim a copyright for that issue, but may or may
> not hold the copyright for the work itself. The newsletter claiming
> copyright, in reality might not have it, but that wouldn't necessarily
> meant if fell into public domain either.
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:24 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <lnawms(at)fuse.net> |
How about if everyone stops picking on Grant, who was probably the greatest boon
to Pietenpols in the last 20 years, and move forward. If you think that you
have to pirate articles from his newsletters to have material for a new newsletter
maybe the whole idea should be scrapped.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Congratulations, Douwe ! |
Gosh that is great news to hear, Douwe about you passing your FAA private
pilot checkride. Way to go, brother.
I hope your first passenger will be (or was) your wife as she seems very
supportive of you and your project and flying after being
able to visit with you last year at Brodhead. Excellent news !!!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: lady passengers |
How about a temporary stick-on plackard on the inside of the passenger
compartment.....Max. passenger wgt. capacity 185 lbs.... or whatever weight
brings you to your particular max. wt. comfort zone. My guess is most people
never think that that poor little Piet is going to strain it's guts trying
to haul their 300lb butt into the air...a placard would be a polite way to
let them know. AND...If you set the wt. low enough the only ones that would
qualify is the petite ladies!!!!!!! Just a thought..Ed G.
>From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lady passengers
>Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:00:47 -0500
>
>
>Which begs the question:
>
>How do you politely and delicately decline the request of a ride from
>someone who is on the "portly" side without sounding like a pompous jerk?
>
>Greg C.
>
>----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:51 AM
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>Ah yes, Oscar----tis not only appealing but prudent during high density
>>operations with somewhat marginally
>>
>>powered airplanes to seek out the thinner willing passengers at a fly-in,
>>not the big heavy beer-belly guys (like me)
>>
>>who always seem to gravitate to an airplane that was originally designed
>>to carry people of smaller stature from the
>>
>>depression era. My choice of passengers is clearly one that takes into
>>account safety first: beauty and appeal of
>>
>>those passengers does happen to be a spin-off most times tho !
>>
>>Mike C.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grant maclaren contact info |
GMacLaren(at)aol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: grant maclaren contact info
Can someone get me Grant MacClaren's contact info?
Regardless of past experiences, I'd like to contact him to at least
get his advice on what it takes to run a good newsletter. He certainly
did a great one for a long time.
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 3rd flight report |
Way to go, Greg.
Now you have first-hand experience of what we speak of in flying a Piet on
windy, bumpy, turbulent days---plus you have a tailskid to contend
with, a whole new level of flying in a Piet. Good going--I'm glad you
got that one under your belt. It really helps build confidence to fly in
conditions like that so that in the event the weather gets windy on you or
bumpy, you've already been there, experienced that.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
Congrats on the license!
I'd love to participate in this newsletter project. I've got internet programming
and database skills and would love to contribute to something that provides
unity and comraderie in the Piet community. I set my own website up as a log
that I simply type in progress through a user interface. There are only a couple
of pages and it's simple to keep up-to-date. I'd be happy to retool the
design for a newsletter format.
Let me know.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43120#43120
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
I stand corrected on the copyright issue. I was working from knowledge that I
had gotten from a group of authors here in Phoenix.
Dick,
Is there a way to check on the existence of a copyright on the old BPA news letters
with out dealing with Grant McClaren? It sounds like he wants to control
the information by bluff and maybe does or maybe does not have the legal authority
to control this information. If he does not it would be good to have it
out and readily available to the pietenpol community.
Mike
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:26:57 AM
Dick,
Thanks for the clarification, I thought this was the case, having
some friends who publish in the music business, but my personal
experience is not there, so I could not authoratatively reply to Mike.
So, my original question stands, does Grant McClaren hold a copyright
for the old issues of the BPA newsletter that he edited or not?
Where's the proof?
I have heard that he has been quite belligerent towards anyone who
has wanted to reprint material, but to my knowledge, he has not
presented any proof to anyone that he holds such a copyright. As I
said before, all of my old copies have absolutely no mention anywhere
in them that the material is copyrighted or that a copyright has been
applied for. In fact, I think that the fact that he put in a
statement that the material is intended for BPA members leads me to
believe that the material IS NOT copyrighted & that he put that
statement there to try to cover his ass without going to the trouble
of getting one, and perhaps as a C-H-A for liability as well.
The reason that I'm making an issue of this is that there is a true
wealth of information in those old issues & it should be available to
the community, not hoarded by Grant as if he were some kind of troll
guarding a treasure.
Kip Gardner
>
>
>As a magazine publisher with some experience with copyrights, I believe
>someone has misinformed Mike Volckermann about copyright law. The U.S.
>Patent and Copyright Office (www.uspto.gov) does not automatically
>issue a copyright, nor does any other agency do so. Indeed, a copyright
>can be issued only after the applicant has filed an application, paid
>the requisite fee, and the application referred to an examiner. If the
>examiner finds the application acceptable in its own right, and does
>not infringe upon any other copyright, a certificate of copyright can
>be issued. No one can claim that anything is, or has been, copyrighted
>unless a certificate has been issued to cover the specific material for
>which the copyright is claimed. However, if an applicaton has been
>filed, the claimant can use the term "Copyright applied for" to alert
>would-be users of the material to the danger of copyright
>violation/prosecution.
>
>This has nothing to do per se with the Broadhead newsletter. However,
>if the claim is being made that any or all of the newsletters are
>covered by a copyright, then an unexpired (or renewed) USPTO copyright
>document to that effect would settle the matter once and for all.
>In the absence of such a document, I believe a patent attorney would
>advise that the material is in the public domain.
>
>Dick Carden
>
>
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grant maclaren contact info |
Please don't take the advice from him on asking for dues for several
years in advance then promptly stop the newsletter. I'm still out three
years dues. I hope that the $36.00 made him really happy.
Barry Davis
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: grant maclaren contact info
Can someone get me Grant MacClaren's contact info?
Regardless of past experiences, I'd like to contact him to at least
get his advice on what it takes to run a good newsletter. He certainly
did a great one for a long time.
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
If a new newsletter is started how about if it specifically states that the
material is not copyrighted and is in the public domain? This way we can
avoid the same thing happening again where a wealth of good infomation is
lost forever to future Piet builders as Grant takes "his" Piet newsletters
to the grave.
Rick
On 6/26/06, lnawms(at)fuse.net wrote:
>
>
> How about if everyone stops picking on Grant, who was probably the
> greatest boon to Pietenpols in the last 20 years, and move forward. If you
> think that you have to pirate articles from his newsletters to have material
> for a new newsletter maybe the whole idea should be scrapped.
>
> Larry
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | 3rd flight report |
I have to ask;why a tail skid when we have wheels that can be so much
more manageable?Why look for trouble?
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: June 26, 2006 10:29 AM
Way to go, Greg.
Now you have first-hand experience of what we speak of in flying a Piet
on
windy, bumpy, turbulent days---plus you have a tailskid to contend
with, a whole new level of flying in a Piet. Good going--I'm glad you
got that one under your belt. It really helps build confidence to fly
in
conditions like that so that in the event the weather gets windy on you
or
bumpy, you've already been there, experienced that.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
There is ALWAYS an inherent copyright with any original material.
Anything composed, written, strung together or otherwise originated by a
human being in the US is protected, to some degree or other, by law.
Even these emails have (to a very minor degree) legal protection under
copyright law.
A Copyright is not like a Patent.
A patent must be applied for and issued to protect an inventor's
intellectual property. A patent that is not applied for within a year
of making the invention public in some way is forever waived.
A Copyright does not have to be applied for nor does it have to be
registered. A Copyright is always attached to a composed work and,
resulting from the work of the late California congressman Sonny Bono,
now lasts for 70 years after the death of the author*. If it is
registered, a high level presumption exists that any illicit copier had
"notice", i.e., KNEW that the material was someone else's work.
What you are actually asking is whether the original authors of works
reproduced in the BPA gave control over subsequent reproduction of their
work to Grant MacLaren or if it was a one-time submission. Only Grant
or the original authors can tell you that.
Maybe, just maybe, Grant wants to protect the rights of the original
authors of articles contributed to the BPA newsletter and can't take the
time to do your research for you. Not only does Grant have authority to
control reproduction of works submitted to him for the BPA newsletter,
he may have a legal obligation to.
Mike Hardaway
* I believe most of the BPA material pre-dates the Sonny Bono Copyright
Term Extension Act 70 year rule, so are protected for 50 years after
author's death.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Volckmann
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copyright Law
I stand corrected on the copyright issue. I was working from
knowledge that I had gotten from a group of authors here in Phoenix.
Dick,
Is there a way to check on the existence of a copyright on the old BPA
news letters with out dealing with Grant McClaren? It sounds like he
wants to control the information by bluff and maybe does or maybe does
not have the legal authority to control this information. If he does
not it would be good to have it out and readily available to the
pietenpol community.
Mike
----- Original Message ----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:26:57 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Copyright Law
Dick,
Thanks for the clarification, I thought this was the case, having
some friends who publish in the music business, but my personal
experience is not there, so I could not authoratatively reply to Mike.
So, my original question stands, does Grant McClaren hold a copyright
for the old issues of the BPA newsletter that he edited or not?
Where's the proof?
I have heard that he has been quite belligerent towards anyone who
has wanted to reprint material, but to my knowledge, he has not
presented any proof to anyone that he holds such a copyright. As I
said before, all of my old copies have absolutely no mention anywhere
in them that the material is copyrighted or that a copyright has been
applied for. In fact, I think that the fact that he put in a
statement that the material is intended for BPA members leads me to
believe that the material IS NOT copyrighted & that he put that
statement there to try to cover his ass without going to the trouble
of getting one, and perhaps as a C-H-A for liability as well.
The reason that I'm making an issue of this is that there is a true
wealth of information in those old issues & it should be available to
the community, not hoarded by Grant as if he were some kind of troll
guarding a treasure.
Kip Gardner
>
>
>As a magazine publisher with some experience with copyrights, I
believe
>someone has misinformed Mike Volckermann about copyright law. The
U.S.
>Patent and Copyright Office (www.uspto.gov) does not automatically
>issue a copyright, nor does any other agency do so. Indeed, a
copyright
>can be issued only after the applicant has filed an application, paid
>the requisite fee, and the application referred to an examiner. If
the
>examiner finds the application acceptable in its own right, and does
>not infringe upon any other copyright, a certificate of copyright can
>be issued. No one can claim that anything is, or has been,
copyrighted
>unless a certificate has been issued to cover the specific material
for
>which the copyright is claimed. However, if an applicaton has been
>filed, the claimant can use the term "Copyright applied for" to alert
>would-be users of the material to the danger of copyright
>violation/prosecution.
>
>This has nothing to do per se with the Broadhead newsletter. However,
>if the claim is being made that any or all of the newsletters are
>covered by a copyright, then an unexpired (or
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
Well it depends. You would have to get everyone that submitted material
to agree to that, but if they did you would be just fine.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: newsletter
If a new newsletter is started how about if it specifically states
that the material is not copyrighted and is in the public domain? This
way we can avoid the same thing happening again where a wealth of good
infomation is lost forever to future Piet builders as Grant takes "his"
Piet newsletters to the grave.
Rick
On 6/26/06, lnawms(at)fuse.net wrote:
How about if everyone stops picking on Grant, who was probably the
greatest boon to Pietenpols in the last 20 years, and move forward. If
you think that you have to pirate articles from his newsletters to have
material for a new newsletter maybe the whole idea should be scrapped.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | clear answers from Mike Hardaway |
Now there is the first post on all of this that really cuts to the
chase. Thank you, Mike. I trust a veteran who is an attorney
who also loves Pietenpols.
All the whimpering and crying and gnashing of teeth about this is pretty
funny when you think about the tremendous amount of
time and effort that Grant put into that newsletter-----a total volunteer
effort with no pay what so ever (like he really needed it)
and dues that didn't even cover the costs of production, mailing, his
returning long-distance phone calls and letters over the years,
answering e-mails, hosting a web page (That by the way is STILL UP and
running for ALL of us to use today) and doing it for almost TEN years.
Grant is not even a pilot---but loves old designs, Model A Ford's and
helped his good friend Howard Henderson build Howard's Piet
in the St. Louis area. I would take Mike Hardaway's words to heart as his
depth of legal knowledge and experience illuminate Grant's
legal and ethical rights, no matter how we might feel about what he 'should
do' or outta do or isn't doing.
I know Grant fairly well and he helps so many organizations that you cannot
imagine. He helps do web work on mostly a volunteer effort
for his graduating class, garden and nature centers, Ford A organizations
and support affiliations, and other various causes too numerous
to mention. Grant didn't need to do the Piet web page or newsletter
anymore than he needed a migraine headache. Give the guy some
credit for doing what he did and maybe approach him with this kind of
gratitude in an effort of diplomacy to see what his reasoning is, see
what his thoughts are, and try to encourage him positively and perhaps
things might happen for the good to release the archived newsletters.
The fact stands that NOBODY has stepped up to the plate like Grant did for
almost a decade since he stopped doing the newsletter seven
years ago in 1999. (sans the diluted version that came out since then and
appears to have since died.)
For what its worth---
Mike Cuy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dye for dope |
Douwe,
Since you have to add AL paste/powder to the final coats of the dope for
UV protection, I think I'd add only a very small amount of this approved
and necessary "pigment" and forget about experimenting with various dyes
that you have no idea if they'll co-react with the dope thus changing
the dope's properties and/or worse make the dope brittle. You could
very easily add very small amounts in varying quantities per coat of the
already needed AL paste. To see if your coverage is complete.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: dye for dope
Guys, (and gals?)
I'm using the old fashioned butyrate dope system over my ceconite.
I'm about ready to start spraying. The first coat must be nitrate dope
as butyrate doesn't adhere to ceconite, whereas nitrate does. The
problem is the only non tautening nitrate I could find was untinted, and
I'd like a little tint to help with even coverage.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might work as a tint? is
there any reason a little rit dye or food coloring wouldn't? (there's
water in there)
thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
Okay, I think we can all agree that Grant MacLaren has the legal right
to the copyright on the old BPA newsletters, and that no one has been
granted permission to reproduce them. It is Grant's right to decide
whether or not to permit such activity, and he has made his decision
clearly. We should respect that right. Case closed. Let's move on.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that a new Pietenpol newsletter
would be reprinting any articles from the old newsletters (At least I
hope not, and if you were, forget it). My understanding was that there
was a discussion as to whether or not there were enough interested, and
dedicated contributors to begin a NEW newsletter, with all new material,
and whether or not there would be an audience for such a newsletter. I
think a new newsletter would be a great idea, since we now have dozens
of completed and flying Pietenpols (and knowledgable
builders/pilots)that were not in that state when the old BPA folded.
There are always new ways to solve old problems, or different approaches
that could be shared. I hope this energy can be turned in a positive
direction and used to create a new newsletter.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clear answers from Mike Hardaway |
Thanks to Google, I've probably dug up every bit of Pietenpol info on the web,
some of which has the BPA brand name. I agree, Grant did a great job and I still
find stuff out there from that era and enjoy reading it. I've been at this
less than a year and don't know exactly where the bad feelings came into play
but I think we could put together a lasting unified resource that a lot of folks
would benefit from and contribute to, with or without the old material.
A new site or newsletter would just be a continuation of whatever was there before
and is exactly in the spirit that insipired Chuck to build his site and me
to build mine. When Chuck talked to me about his site before he went live with
it, he spoke of starting a Pietenpol movement. I've never had a more positive
and like minded group undertaking a project of this scale and I'd do anything
to get more people into it. You guys are a lot more fun than the EAA chapter
guys. I'd love to see more people and ideas flowing around planes like ours.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43176#43176
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
As Jack recommended AC43.13 is a good document to have. At least for getting and
idea on judging wood quality. I bought one but it's also available as a FREE
download from the FAA website at:
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument&Highlight=43.13
(If the link doesn't work and you can't paste it into a single line of your browser's URL box just go to http://www.faa.gov and click on the Regulations and Policies tab, then use the Advisory Circulars link on the upper left. You can search for it by just entering in 43.13)
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43183#43183
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clear answers from Mike Hardaway |
Funny you should mention your EAA chapter guys. I attended a chapter meeting
the other night involving going from hanger to hanger looking at projects. I
proudly wore my 'Pietenpol - Cherry Grove ..' shirt and as we went from RV6
to RV8 to Lanair to R10 I had about five diferent guys ask me what a
Pietenpol was. And guess what? Nobody in the group I talked to had ever
heard of one. Guess once you get in RV-land there just isn't any other
aircraft worth worrying about.
Great website also Glenn.
RIck
On 6/26/06, Glenn Thomas < glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> wrote:
>
> glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
> You guys are a lot more fun than the EAA chapter guys. I'd love to see
> more people and ideas fl!
> owing around planes like ours.
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Plncrzy3(at)netscape.net |
As I sit here reading all the Bull-s--t about who or who does not hold a copyright
on idea's for building and flying a Pietenpol, that I would think everyone
should and would want to pass this information on to all builder's both old and
new. And to hear that the old idea's and information should stay buried and
not be shared with the new builder's because someone cannot come up with new
material and is just pirating someone else's idea's is a bunch of CRAP! I thought
that this is what this was all about. If this is the way and attitude of most
of the Builder's and Flyer's of this network then I will quietly Build and
Fly my Pietenpol knowing that I did not infringe on anyone's Damn Copyright or
use there idea's or techniques to get my Plane finished. And all this time I
thought this was supposed to be a Fun thing to do between a group of people with
the same GOAL, To Build and Fly a Pietenpol. Bryan
__________________________________________________________________
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
Bryan Copyright is both a necessary and a positive thing. It is what has
made it possible for you to quietly build that airplane. I could be
mistaken here because there are a number of types of work products that fall
under many different names, but without some sort of work property
protection would you still be able to buy plans for the Piet? Would Don
still answer the phone to answer your questions? Of course not and if you
were lucky you might find a set of partial plans that you might be able to
get to a copy machine to get a copy of a good enough quality to maybe build
your airplane.
Sharing ideas amoung builders is how many problems are solved. New ideas
and new ways to solve old problems might well justify a newsletter. That
sharing of ideas is the purpose of this list.
Yet I am a photographer and I get paid based on the work I produce. I don't
want anyone stealing (and yes that's exactly what it is) an image from me
and putting it out in some other form for a profit. If I find out, they pay
one way or another. If they are reasonable they pay normal rates plus a
small surcharge. If not they pay a WHOLE lot more.
For what ever reason the previous publisher has decided not to allow
reproduction. That should most certainly be respected. That does not mean
new work couldn't be created, and in fact it might be even better. Was a
dremel tool out 30 years ago? How many uses could you find for that tool in
building a Piet? How could that work into practices used back in the 30's?
Passing on solid information is one thing, but there is a big difference
between "passing on information" and effectively photocopying someones hard
work without them being compensated for the effort. How long would Flying
Magazine stay in business if only one person at the airport bought it, and
then just passed around photocopies for the rest of the airport? The only
difference is the size of the circulation.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 9:11 PM
>
> As I sit here reading all the Bull-s--t about who or who does not hold a
> copyright on idea's for building and flying a Pietenpol, that I would
> think everyone should and would want to pass this information on to all
> builder's both old and new. And to hear that the old idea's and
> information should stay buried and not be shared with the new builder's
> because someone cannot come up with new material and is just pirating
> someone else's idea's is a bunch of CRAP! I thought that this is what this
> was all about. If this is the way and attitude of most of the Builder's
> and Flyer's of this network then I will quietly Build and Fly my Pietenpol
> knowing that I did not infringe on anyone's Damn Copyright or use there
> idea's or techniques to get my Plane finished. And all this time I thought
> this was supposed to be a Fun thing to do between a group of people with
> the same GOAL, To Build and Fly a Pietenpol. Bryan
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
> As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
> http://isp.netscape.com/register
>
> Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
>
> New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
> Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
> Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel and steering |
I have a question for those who just used a non steerable tailwheel as opposed
to a steerable one with cables. How well has it worked on landing and takeoff?
Roughly what is your turning radius? I really want to keep the weight down on
that long moment arm if I can. I am used to flying a Tripacer and my turning
radius is probably over 40 feet at best. So if the turning radius on a rigid tailwheel
is not any worse than that I can live with it.
Thanks,
Rick S.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3rd flight report |
Builder's choice.
To install a tailwheel on a Pietenpol with Jenny style gear would require
brakes and a means to steer the tailwheel. Brakes and steering add weight,
complexity and additional trouble opportunities of their own.
I am perfectly satisfied to be limited to grass airstrips and mild weather.
Cheers,
Greg Cardinal
>
> I have to ask;why a tail skid when we have wheels that can be so much
> more manageable?Why look for trouble?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rain rain go away |
In a message dated 6/26/2006 5:56:09 PM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
Probably the same for Chuck out there in Kansas.
Yep, it's beautiful blue skies here, with just enough white puffy clouds to
give the sky some texture. I saw on the news, where Walt is, that the east
coast is getting drenched.
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Tailwheel and steering |
For some strange reason it turns left better than right but I have yet
to try take off and landings.I'll let you know in the future.
________________________________
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: June 27, 2006 12:16 AM
I have a question for those who just used a non steerable tailwheel as
opposed to a steerable one with cables. How well has it worked on
landing and takeoff? Roughly what is your turning radius? I really want
to keep the weight down on that long moment arm if I can. I am used to
flying a Tripacer and my turning radius is probably over 40 feet at
best. So if the turning radius on a rigid tailwheel is not any worse
than that I can live with it.
Thanks,
Rick S.
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | 3rd flight report |
I have a tail wheel that is controlled by springs and chain from the
rudder but there are no brakes.I use a butterfly bracket on the rudder.I
do have brakes on the front wheels though and I am still fiddling with
them ,trying to get the right setting.I don't see the need for one and
neither does my AME.If it comes down to weight then I can always change
to a skid but the handling would be a treat to watch with me at the
controls.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gcardinal
Sent: June 27, 2006 12:18 AM
Builder's choice.
To install a tailwheel on a Pietenpol with Jenny style gear would
require
brakes and a means to steer the tailwheel. Brakes and steering add
weight,
complexity and additional trouble opportunities of their own.
I am perfectly satisfied to be limited to grass airstrips and mild
weather.
Cheers,
Greg Cardinal
>
> I have to ask;why a tail skid when we have wheels that can be so much
> more manageable?Why look for trouble?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>As I sit here reading all the Bull-s--t about who or who does not
>hold a copyright on idea's for building and flying a Pietenpol, that
>I would think everyone should and would want to pass this
>information on to all builder's both old and new. And to hear that
>the old idea's and information should stay buried and not be shared
>with the new builder's because someone cannot come up with new
>material and is just pirating someone else's idea's is a bunch of
>CRAP! I thought that this is what this was all about. If this is the
>way and attitude of most of the Builder's and Flyer's of this
>network then I will quietly Build and Fly my Pietenpol knowing that
>I did not infringe on anyone's Damn Copyright or use there idea's or
>techniques to get my Plane finished. And all this time I thought
>this was supposed to be a Fun thing to do between a group of people
>with the same GOAL, To Build and Fly a Pietenpol. Bryan
Ok,
So Grant M. 'owns' a copyright on the old BPA newsletters, fine, end
of that particular subject.
However, I think it's still strange that everyone says what a great
thing Grant did for the community, etc., etc. when the graet thing
that he did was edit a newsletter that he now says no one can have
access to.
I came into this project about the time Grant stopped editing the
newsletter & the only thing he ever did for me personally was take my
money & deliver no newsletters. If he was going to stop writiing,
why didn't he let everyone know in advance so that people would not
continue sending him money? It would have been easy to post
something to that effect on his web site.
I don't know what soured Grant, but I think it's a shame that he
feels the way he does - his legacy would be so much greater if he let
this information be freely shared.
I'll say no more on this subject, I guess at this point it's been
beaten to death.
Kip G.
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
Richard-- I have a fully steerable (not a free-swiveling tailwheel) setup
and I can easily turn around 180 degrees on our
35 foot wide runway where I am based. Perhaps the guys flying with fixed
tailwheels can respond about turning radius.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Bryan,
I think you might be missing the key point of this discussion (and if I
have misinterpreted what you wrote, then I apologise). What is
copyrighted is not the ideas, but rather, the publication (the
newsletters themselves). Ideas cannot be copyrighted. There is no reason
why a new newsletter could not present "old ideas" to a new audience. I
have seen a couple dozen Pietenpols up close, and I have yet to find two
alike, unless they were built together, at one time. Anyone is free to
look at any airplane and "borrow" whatever detail they like. And if
anyone wishes to submit an "idea" to a newsletter, they are free to do
so. It wouldn't have to be a new "idea", or even their own "idea".
As for the attitude of the builders and flyers of this network, I have
never been involved with a group that was as friendly, welcoming and
willing to help and share as this group. I have not met anyone yet that
was secretive about the details of their plane. In fact, most will go
that extra mile to help, or share their knowledge.
And you're right, this is supposed to be a FUN thing, so let's not get
hung up on publishing copyrights. Let's focus on building, flying and
camaraderie.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Plncrzy3(at)netscape.net
Sent: June 26, 2006 9:16 PM
As I sit here reading all the Bull-s--t about who or who does not hold a
copyright on idea's for building and flying a Pietenpol, that I would
think everyone should and would want to pass this information on to all
builder's both old and new. And to hear that the old idea's and
information should stay buried and not be shared with the new builder's
because someone cannot come up with new material and is just pirating
someone else's idea's is a bunch of CRAP! I thought that this is what
this was all about. If this is the way and attitude of most of the
Builder's and Flyer's of this network then I will quietly Build and Fly
my Pietenpol knowing that I did not infringe on anyone's Damn Copyright
or use there idea's or techniques to get my Plane finished. And all this
time I thought this was supposed to be a Fun thing to do between a group
of people with the same GOAL, To Build and Fly a Pietenpol. Bryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Brussels, and the British |
Okay, I finally got those photos from the Brussels, Ontario Pietenpol
fly-in downloaded. As I had a few requests, I have posted them at
Mykitplane.com - here's a link:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=290
And while I've got your attention, check out the nice work they're doing
across the ocean. The UK Pietenpol Club has posted some new photos, as
another Piet hits the skies in the U.K. I think G-ECVB is one of the
nicest Air Campers around. Here's a link to the photos:
http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
How do we actually know that Grant won't allow us to recompile and
redistribute the old newsletters that he so labored over
(with tons of thankless ungrateful, don't let the door hit you in the ass
type mentalities out there once he quit after 10 years)
if nobody contacts him and explains our desires with him ? There is an
assumption that due to his response a year or so ago when we
went thru this that he might not be willing to negotiate, but how do we
know that for sure unless someone (and there is the big if) would
diplomatically approach him on the subject ? Perhaps this common sense,
down to earth guy can actually talk about this with us and
possibly reach some kind of agreement that would benefit all ? Then
again he might just say, nope---I'll take you to court if you do so, but
what hurts in trying ?
Grant is in the middle of building a new home and has travel plans for
quite a bit of his free time otherwise for the next month or two but I think
that unless someone doesn't want to step up here and contact him that I
would be willing to do that after the fly-in's at Brodhead and Oshkosh.
Funny how many people will cry about something but not lift a finger to
find the answers.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
For all the guys wringing their hands out there, I just DID something. I
forwarded my post to Grant.......will let you know what
he thinks when he has time to reply to me.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
As far as I know, the newsletter out of Brodhead is still available.
It comes out quarterly. The most recent one I have is from April
2006. I assume the next one will be slightly delayed so that a
Brodhead report can be published in it, but that's just a guess. I
don't have it in front of me, but if anyone is interested, I'll post
the contact information tonight when I get home. It's full color and
this current issue is eight pages.
Having edited an EAA chapter newsletter for years, I can assure you
that any content you send along to them will be greatly appreciated.
Also, having edited as an avocation and professionally, I can assure
you that even if the editor never writes a single word of original
content, the workload is enormous regardless of the size of the
newsletter or magazine. It's fun, but a lot of work.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: here is an idea |
Good point Mike. I would like to have a set of the old newsletters and would
be willing to contribute money to a one time 'buy out' fund to encougrage
Grant to release the newsletters to the public domain for everyone's use.
Of course if he wants ten of thousands of dollars to do that then thats a
different matter.
Rick H.
On 6/27/06, Michael D Cuy wrote:
>
> Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
>
>
> How do we actually know that Grant won't allow us to recompile and
> redistribute the old newsletters that he so labored over
>
> (with tons of thankless ungrateful, don't let the door hit you in the ass
> type mentalities out there once he quit after 10 years)
>
> if nobody contacts him and explains our desires with him ? There is an
> assumption that due to his response a year or so ago when we
>
> went thru this that he might not be willing to negotiate, but how do we
> know that for sure unless someone (and there is the big if) would
>
> diplomatically approach him on the subject ? Perhaps this common sense,
> down to earth guy can actually talk about this with us and
>
> possibly reach some kind of agreement that would benefit all ? Then
> again he might just say, nope---I'll take you to court if you do so, but
>
> what hurts in trying ?
>
> Grant is in the middle of building a new home and has travel plans for
> quite a bit of his free time otherwise for the next month or two but I
> think
>
> that unless someone doesn't want to step up here and contact him that I
> would be willing to do that after the fly-in's at Brodhead and Oshkosh.
>
> Funny how many people will cry about something but not lift a finger to
> find the answers.
>
> Mike
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
G'day, low 'n' slow fliers;
I've been told by more than one aircraft owner that Marvel Mystery Oil is
good for anything that ails a small Continental; in the oil and in the fuel.
Anybody have any good or bad things to say about it?
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Okay guys,
After reading everyone's thoughts and talking to some guys individually,
here is what seems clear.
1. There is a need and desire for a good, informative newsletter to
support the Piet community.
1.5 the brodhead piet newsletter has petered out.
2. For lack of conclusive evidence, it should be assumed Grant owns all
the old articles
3. Grant did a great job
4. We should approach Grant, and the brodhead newsletter people in a
respectful and appreciative way, for advice and any possible offers of
help in allowing us to occasionally use some of the old material.
5. we have enough skills and experience in this group to put one
together.
6. we should stop talking and try it.
7. As I envision it, the purpose of a new Piet newsletter should be to
disseminate accurate information about the Piet, and how it is built.
It should address the common questions first time builders have. It
should provide encouragement to builders by sharing flying stories,
adventures etc. It should provide historical tidbits to help us all
keep in touch with the roots of this plane. It should encourage safety.
I think it would be fascinating to try tracking down every registered
Piet owner and dropping them a line asking for their story, performance
stats, etc. It should provide a list of Piet building resources. It
should finally have many pictures and should be fairly meaty.
So, here are my thoughts. For things like this, we need a "core" group
of people who have the passion, the time and the desire to help by
actually putting it together, writing articles, editing, soliciting
articles and stories and photos from other piet owners and builders,
etc.
John Hofmann who does the Travelair newsletter is willing to put it
together and get it mailed. I am willing to write, edit, solicit etc. I
hope everyone would be willing to make submissions of any kind, but how
about anyone interested in helping consistently contact me on my email.
John suggested, and I agree, that we should just try putting one
together and see how it goes. We have nothing to lose but a little time
and some money.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lee Schiek" <leeschiek(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
I've been using MMO in every engine I've owned for decades...C-65's,
O-360's, I0-540's, Chevy 454's, Subaru boxer engines, Onan generator, Briggs
& Strattons, etc. A little in the fuel every other fill-up...a little in
the crankcase at oil change, a little down the carb to winterize, etc.
Does it work? Don't know.....kinda like religion - ya need a little faith.
I do know that pulled heads have always been clean, the 454ci motorhome
greatly reduced oil consumption, and aircraft engines designed for leaded
fuel seemed to last longer......
My Model A car had a MMO Inverse Oiler installed....a jar & valving that
sent a few drops into the manifold in response to vacuum...couple
drops/minute at high vacuum (no load), 8-10 drops a minute a low vacuum
(under load).......
For 'bout a hundred bucks/year outlay, I consider it chicken soup for my
engines.....May not help, but it certainly can't hurt........
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
>Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:08:54 -0500
>
>
>
>G'day, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>I've been told by more than one aircraft owner that Marvel Mystery Oil is
>good for anything that ails a small Continental; in the oil and in the
>fuel. Anybody have any good or bad things to say about it?
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
Oscar,
I use it in fuel only, I'm a little hesitant to put anything in my
oil, and I haven't heard any good reasons to do so in a Continental.
I've heard several stories of MMO "unsticking" sticky valves when
added to the fuel, and I figured that if it can unstick a stuck valve,
it should also keep them from sticking. That, along with
recommendations from a lot of people I respect, was enough to get me
to use it. It does leave a slight residue on my plane after 20+
hours, but it does wash away.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Oscar Zuniga :
>
> G'day, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
> I've been told by more than one aircraft owner that Marvel Mystery Oil
> is good for anything that ails a small Continental; in the oil and in
> the fuel. Anybody have any good or bad things to say about it?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton" <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Brussels, and the British |
Thanks Bill. Eric and I just brought home three large RC airplanes that his
grandfather secured for him in an estate sale. Talk about a garage filled
with airplanes. I'm moving back into the building mode with Eric home but i
seem to be bouncing between RC and the real thing. Hope no balsa ends up in
the Piet!!
Nice pics.
Scott
>From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brussels, and the British
>Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:48:34 -0400
>
>Okay, I finally got those photos from the Brussels, Ontario Pietenpol
>fly-in downloaded. As I had a few requests, I have posted them at
>Mykitplane.com - here's a link:
>
>http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=290
>
>And while I've got your attention, check out the nice work they're doing
>across the ocean. The UK Pietenpol Club has posted some new photos, as
>another Piet hits the skies in the U.K. I think G-ECVB is one of the
>nicest Air Campers around. Here's a link to the photos:
>
>http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/
>
>Bill C.
_________________________________________________________________
Movies, Music & More! Visit Sympatico / MSN Entertainment
http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Brussels, and the British and balsa |
Actually I plan to use balsa for the filler strips between gussets on the
top and bottom longerons and tail feathers. The filler strips are there
only to give the fabric a nice straight line to bend around.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> Hope no balsa ends up in
> the Piet!!
> Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
When I first bought my Cub, this subject came up. Apparently MMO is not officially
approved for aircraft use, but everybody looks the other way. I suspect if
there were a verifiable incident of failure traceable to MMO, the word would
get out and shut the practice down. I don't know if any of this applies to experimental
type, except in the case where you're maintaining a certificated engine
as standard type in your experimental airplane. I use a 1/4 cup of MMO in
a full tank of fuel in the Cub. I don't put it in my oil.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Lee Schiek <leeschiek(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 27, 2006 9:55 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
>
>
>I've been using MMO in every engine I've owned for decades...C-65's,
>O-360's, I0-540's, Chevy 454's, Subaru boxer engines, Onan generator, Briggs
>& Strattons, etc. A little in the fuel every other fill-up...a little in
>the crankcase at oil change, a little down the carb to winterize, etc.
>
>Does it work? Don't know.....kinda like religion - ya need a little faith.
>I do know that pulled heads have always been clean, the 454ci motorhome
>greatly reduced oil consumption, and aircraft engines designed for leaded
>fuel seemed to last longer......
>
>My Model A car had a MMO Inverse Oiler installed....a jar & valving that
>sent a few drops into the manifold in response to vacuum...couple
>drops/minute at high vacuum (no load), 8-10 drops a minute a low vacuum
>(under load).......
>
>For 'bout a hundred bucks/year outlay, I consider it chicken soup for my
>engines.....May not help, but it certainly can't hurt........
>
>
>>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
>>Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 08:08:54 -0500
>>
>>
>>
>>G'day, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>
>>I've been told by more than one aircraft owner that Marvel Mystery Oil is
>>good for anything that ails a small Continental; in the oil and in the
>>fuel. Anybody have any good or bad things to say about it?
>>
>>Oscar Zuniga
>>San Antonio, TX
>>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
If you send an engine oil sample off for examination, the report will come
back as a non aviation substanse in the oil. IE oil comtaminated. Well
that really wouldn't be a big deal until something else liquid got in an
contaminated the oil.
Personally I have never seen anything that said it would do any harm, but
not really seen anything for sure that said it would do any good either. I
used it in a RX 7 for years. It had a turbo charged rotary in it and I used
MMO every fill up for years. The engine had 230,000 miles on it when a
cooling seal finally went bad.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 9:08 AM
>
>
> G'day, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
> I've been told by more than one aircraft owner that Marvel Mystery Oil is
> good for anything that ails a small Continental; in the oil and in the
> fuel. Anybody have any good or bad things to say about it?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu> |
Mike C and I (Steve E) were building during the same period (10 years
ago!) that Grant was publishing. Grant is a great guy who decided to
turn his interests to other things after shepherding the piet flock for
years with the best looking news letter in the 'business'. He did give
a years warning and no-one picked up the baton. (including myself)
I'll be interested to see if his reply to Mike C. is the same that he
gave me years ago when we talked about copyright.
Personally I think the BPA newsletters are fascinating and helpful, but
the archives of this group have as much or more valuable information
when it comes to building. History is interesting however....
Steve E (the youngish, old timer. "I'm only 37... no make that 38.)
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
D Cuy
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:53 AM
For all the guys wringing their hands out there, I just DID something.
I
forwarded my post to Grant.......will let you know what
he thinks when he has time to reply to me.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: BPA newsletter |
I had to come home over lunch, so I thought I'd dig out the most
recent BPA Newletter to send the list information about it. It is the
Second Quarter issue and came out on time (April), AFAIK. I agree
with Douwe that some recent issues are thin (though this one is 8
pages), but given that they are full color, that the
publisher/editors have the means to edit, typeset, and distribute,
and that someone has the interest, seems to me that all it's missing
is content.
Content and paying dues would be our contribution, whether that
contribution be made to the current Newsletter or to a new
newsletter. I'm not clear on why we wouldn't just contribute to the
current newsletter and not reinvent the wheel. BUT, don't let me get
in the way of someone's dream. As I wrote this morning, I used to
edit a newsletter. It was a lot of fun (but a lot of work, too).
In case you want to contribute to the current newsletter, the contact
information is:
The Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter
c/o The Independent-Register
PO Box 255
Brodhead, WI 53520-0255
Email: bpa(at)indreg.com
A year's subscription is $16 (four issues). They have a standing
request for stories and photos of Piet-related items.
If another Piet newsletter pops up, I'll probably subscribe to that one, too!
Hope this helps,
Jeff
>Roman,
>
>I subscribe to the BPA newsletter too, and have enjoyed it... to a
>point. As I mentioned in my emails, the substance and regularity
>seemed to trail off a couple years ago to the point where I was
>occassionally getting a two or four page newsletter with very little
>of interest.
>
>I respect anyone who has the gumption to get up and freely "do"
>something like this and my hat is off to them. It does seem
>however, that they need help or to pass the baton.
>
>I'll try to contact them for a status update and pick their brains.
>
>Douwe
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Brussels, and the British |
It is always so interesting and educational to review photographs of
different airplanes (especially Piets). I noticed several things in the
photos... such as, most Piets are set up with zero dihedral. One of the
ones in the photos has no strut bracing (the X-brace cables between the lift
struts), but then again it doesn't seem to have a registration number
either, so maybe it isn't finished yet. One seems to have a bottom (belly)
that is plumb flat (most have a stringer down the belly to give it some
roundness). And the fattened wing center section idea is one of those that
is so simple as to be one of those 'duh' things when additional fuel
capacity is desired for a center section fuel tank.
Good source for ideas. And yes, G-ECVB sure is a nice airplane. A cockpit
shot or two would be nice, but I didn't see any...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton" <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello everyone. I thought I would introduce myself as a new member on the
list. Been watching and learning on the sidelines for quite some time but
didn't feel I had much to offer in the way of "how too" as I am a new
builder. I have been to Broadhead with my 11 year old building partner in
2004 and 2005 (spent an amazing 20 minutes aloft in a Pietenpol in 2005).
We are at the plans/initial building stage of our Pietenpol with 14 ribs
built and a bunch of spruce and AN hardware (mostly from the aeromart at the
"other fly-in"). I have to tell you that any time I have had a question I
have been able to answer it by doing a search on this amazing forum you
have. We are hoping to attend Broadhead again this year (only a 16 hour
drive from Toronto) but having started a new job I am unsure that I'll be
able to get the time off... If so I look forward to meeting more of the
"faces behind the names". Keep up the great posts and the excellent
technical information. For everyone who asks an open question on the forum
there are probably another ten of us who benefit from your answers.
Scott Knowlton
Burlington Ontario
_________________________________________________________________
Auto news & advice check out Sympatico / MSN Autos
http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/Default.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Blackwell" <markb1958(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
MMO is definately illegal to use in any airplane with a standard
airworthiness certificate. But for those that are interested there is a
product called Av Blend which is legal that goes in the engine oil. I used
it in an old Isuzo Rodeo that had a bad knock and yes it stopped it when MMO
wouldn't. Id use it first, IF I were using a certified airplane engine.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:34 AM
>
> When I first bought my Cub, this subject came up. Apparently MMO is not
> officially approved for aircraft use, but everybody looks the other way.
> I suspect if there were a verifiable incident of failure traceable to MMO,
> the word would get out and shut the practice down. I don't know if any of
> this applies to experimental type, except in the case where you're
> maintaining a certificated engine as standard type in your experimental
> airplane. I use a 1/4 cup of MMO in a full tank of fuel in the Cub. I
> don't put it in my oil.
>
> Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Brussels, and the British |
Oscar,
The plane with no X-brace cables between the lift struts does have
registration numbers on the rudder (C-FRCO) but the photographer seemed
to cut that off. The X-brace cables just weren't installed yet. It
hasn't flown since the restoration. I'm not sure, but I think that plane
is a highly modified Grega.
As for a cockpit shot of G-ECVB, try this:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0678122/L/
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Remember the vids from Richard DeCosta? |
All those old vids of Piets flying, I had on my old computer. When I
tried to play the CD's on my new XP, it doesn't recogonize the files.
Does anyone have the vids? The newer guys would like them.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | My Piet and aileron gap sealing |
Douwe,
Sorry you can't make it this year. My dad, a friend, and I bought our
Piet last August and we along with my wife will be at Brodhead.
Thanks for asking about it.
Our Piet was built in 1976 by a fellow in upstate NY. It's only got
about 300 hrs on it. Trucked in down in a UHaul. That was a long
drive that ended safely but in a downpour at the home airport. The
workmanship is excellent, it's always been hangared and the fabric is
in great shape. The original engine was an A65. Though it was
low-time, it had issues and has since been replaced with a C-75. With
two on board (180 lbs and 160 lbs) and full fuel (14 gal), we climb
out at about 450 fpm on a fairly standard day.
The engine swap helps on take-off and climb. However, the biggest
gain we've seen, certainly the biggest compared to the effort, was
sealing the aileron gaps with translucent duct tape. Before this, I
always felt that the plane was balanced on a knife edge on both axes.
It was jittery and just downright un-fun to fly in any circumstance
other than dead still air. Even in dead still air, initiating a
control input was like being slammed in turbulence - I'd move the
stick, nothing would happen, then (as Emeril would say) BAM! the
plane would lurch over into a turn. Even in light chop it was real
work to fly the thing.
Now, it is rock solid. The response is fairly quick, but s-m-o-o-t-h
and predictable. I highly suggest it to anyone who is flying with
open gaps. It really adds joy to the whole experience.
Another thing we've found is that the plane is happiest at about 70
mph. It'll do 90, but even at 80 it is just not as fun an experience.
Maybe bigger windscreens or better rigging would help. But, it sure
is fun at 70, so why bother?
A picture of the Piet and me is at the Pietenpol frappr site:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=1251828&pid=1983898
Jeff
>I can't believe it, but I won't be able to make this year. My best
>friend is getting married on Sat and simply refused to postpone it
>for me (rather selfish I thought!)
>
>Tell me about your Piet. Did you buy it, build it, is it finished,
>what engine???
>
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Remember the vids from Richard DeCosta? |
I would love to see any vids on the peit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember the vids from Richard DeCosta? |
I have them....plus a few more....
Send me an sase and I'll copy a few CDs of Piet videos for you....
Jim Markle
4247 W 420 Road
Pryor, OK 64361
214.505.6101
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Remember the vids from Richard DeCosta?
I would love to see any vids on the peit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: here is an idea |
Just a thought .... If that doesnt work, then why not start a NEW Pietenpol Newsletter?
L.D. Sewell
-----Original Message-----
How do we actually know that Grant won't allow us to recompile and redistribute
the old newsletters that he so labored over
(with tons of thankless ungrateful, don't let the door hit you in the ass type
mentalities out there once he quit after 10 years)
if nobody contacts him and explains our desires with him ? There is an assumption
that due to his response a year or so ago when we
went thru this that he might not be willing to negotiate, but how do we know that
for sure unless someone (and there is the big if) would
diplomatically approach him on the subject ? Perhaps this common sense, down to
earth guy can actually talk about this with us and
possibly reach some kind of agreement that would benefit all ? Then again he might
just say, nope---I'll take you to court if you do so, but
what hurts in trying ?
Grant is in the middle of building a new home and has travel plans for quite a
bit of his free time otherwise for the next month or two but I think
that unless someone doesn't want to step up here and contact him that I would be
willing to do that after the fly-in's at Brodhead and Oshkosh.
Funny how many people will cry about something but not lift a finger to find the
answers.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
As far as I know a copyright is automatically created at the time a work is written
by its author. In other words it belongs to he who WROTE IT. It can be sold
or otherwise transferred to another party by an agreement, however, failing
that -- the material would normally still belong to the original AUTHOR. That's
just my understanding and it certainly doesn't mean its right.... I'm sure
at least one of you on the list has to be a lawyer, care to render an authoritative
legal opinion?
Just another thought ... Before I would argue with anybody over old newsletters
I would simply start a NEW NEWSLETTER and with all the active interest in this
wonderful little airplane called a Pietenpol ... there would be no shortage
of material.
L. D. Sewell
-----Original Message-----
Dick,
Thanks for the clarification, I thought this was the case, having some friends
who publish in the music business, but my personal experience is not there, so
I could not authoratatively reply to Mike.
So, my original question stands, does Grant McClaren hold a copyright for the old
issues of the BPA newsletter that he edited or not? Where's the proof?
I have heard that he has been quite belligerent towards anyone who has wanted to
reprint material, but to my knowledge, he has not presented any proof to anyone
that he holds such a copyright. As I said before, all of my old copies have
absolutely no mention anywhere in them that the material is copyrighted or that
a copyright has been applied for. In fact, I think that the fact that he put
in a statement that the material is intended for BPA members leads me to believe
that the material IS NOT copyrighted & that he put that statement there
to try to cover his ass without going to the trouble of getting one, and perhaps
as a C-H-A for liability as well.
The reason that I'm making an issue of this is that there is a true wealth of information
in those old issues & it should be available to the community, not
hoarded by Grant as if he were some kind of troll guarding a treasure.
Kip Gardner
>
>As a magazine publisher with some experience with copyrights, I believe
>someone has misinformed Mike Volckermann about copyright law. The U.S.
>Patent and Copyright Office (www.uspto.gov) does not automatically
>issue a copyright, nor does any other agency do so. Indeed, a copyright
>can be issued only after the applicant has filed an application, paid
>the requisite fee, and the application referred to an examiner. If the
>examiner finds the application acceptable in its own right, and does
>not infringe upon any other copyright, a certificate of copyright can
>be issued. No one can claim that anything is, or has been, copyrighted
>unless a certificate has been issued to cover the specific material for
>which the copyright is claimed. However, if an applicaton has been
>filed, the claimant can use the term "Copyright applied for" to alert
>would-be users of the material to the danger of copyright
>violation/prosecution.
>
>This has nothing to do per se with the Broadhead newsletter. However,
>if the claim is being made that any or all of the newsletters are
>covered by a copyright, then an unexpired (or renewed) USPTO copyright
>document to that effect would settle the matter once and for all.
>In the absence of such a document, I believe a patent attorney would
>advise that the material is in the public domain.
>
>Dick Carden
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | more basic planning questions. |
I would like to achieve a wider range of useable load and climb performance
without too many sacrifices.
With the exception of the prop. What are the other variables to increasing
useable load? Is this a horsepower only issue and what are the other
variables?
I realize there are a series of design compromises that accompany design
changes so I was curious as where the useable comes from and how is that
determined?
Naturally the collective experience and insight and topic knowledge is
greatly appreciated in answering one of many basic questions I have.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Copyright Law |
Here is a link to some very interesting information on the subject of copyrights
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wci
L.D.Sewell
-----Original Message-----
As a painter and sculptor, when I sell a painting
or sculpture, the only thing I sell is the physical
object itself. I retain the right of copy unless
specifically agreed upon to do otherwise. There
have been cases of the purchaser making
prints of a painting and making copies of a
sculpture where the artist has discovered it
and taken the "owner" to court. In every case
I know of the artist has recovered damages
and the perpetuator penalized.
A few years ago a local artist saw a painting
by another artist that incorporated a small
part of one of his paintings. He successfully
sued. The notoriety was beneficial to BOTH
artists!
A publication such as the BPA or a magazine
may print things submitted by outside parties,
such as you and I, or by their own employed
writers. The first is like my painting, the second
belongs to the publication.There is more to it,
however. If the publication solicits your
services to write something for them then you
have been employed and the work is theirs. If
you submit an unsolicited article on a subject
of your choice with the idea that it may be of
interest to their readers and they buy it from
you then you retain the rights unless you
explicitly sign them away in some fashion, as
Mark has said.
In the case of the BPA we have no idea what
the original contractual agreement was for any
given article. It's no use speculating or assuming
anything either. If you copy the entire newsletter
then that, regardless of what it's comprised of, is
an entity unto itself and owned by the publisher
or, more likely, the company or individual that
owns the publishing company.
The answer is to write your own. Suppose you
want to pass on some important information about
a topic such as standard spin recovery techniques
that you think would be beneficial to the rest of us
Peiters.
In this case the facts are the facts, do this, do that, do
the other thing and you come out the bottom straight.
Copy the original and you break the law. Take those
facts, write about them in your own words and phrases,
and THAT document is yours even though the reader
comes away with exactly the same knowledge from
either article.
Notes from the Convoluted Universe, Clif
>
> There is one thing though that might come up. Publishing an article in a > mag
doesn't necessarily give the copyright to the editor or publisher. It > would
depend on how the agreement was written. A publication may be given > "one time
use rights" which only allows the publication in that months > issue. A magazine
can claim a copyright for that issue, but may or may > not hold the copyright
for the work itself. The newsletter claiming > copyright, in reality might
not have it, but that wouldn't necessarily > meant if fell into public domain
either.
> ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:24 PM
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | My Piet and aileron gap sealing |
Douwe,
Sorry you can't make it this year. My dad, a friend, and I bought our
Piet last August and we along with my wife will be at Brodhead.
Thanks for asking about it.
Our Piet was built in 1976 by a fellow in upstate NY. It's only got
about 300 hrs on it. Trucked in down in a UHaul. That was a long
drive that ended safely but in a downpour at the home airport. The
workmanship is excellent, it's always been hangared and the fabric is
in great shape. The original engine was an A65. Though it was
low-time, it had issues and has since been replaced with a C-75. With
two on board (180 lbs and 160 lbs) and full fuel (14 gal), we climb
out at about 450 fpm on a fairly standard day.
The engine swap helps on take-off and climb. However, the biggest
gain we've seen, certainly the biggest compared to the effort, was
sealing the aileron gaps with translucent duct tape. Before this, I
always felt that the plane was balanced on a knife edge on both axes.
It was jittery and just downright un-fun to fly in any circumstance
other than dead still air. Even in dead still air, initiating a
control input was like being slammed in turbulence - I'd move the
stick, nothing would happen, then (as Emeril would say) BAM! the
plane would lurch over into a turn. Even in light chop it was real
work to fly the thing.
Now, it is rock solid. The response is fairly quick, but s-m-o-o-t-h
and predictable. I highly suggest it to anyone who is flying with
open gaps. It really adds joy to the whole experience.
Another thing we've found is that the plane is happiest at about 70
mph. It'll do 90, but even at 80 it is just not as fun an experience.
Maybe bigger windscreens or better rigging would help. But, it sure
is fun at 70, so why bother?
A picture of the Piet and me is at the Pietenpol frappr site:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=1251828&pid=1983898
Jeff
>I can't believe it, but I won't be able to make this year. My best
>friend is getting married on Sat and simply refused to postpone it
>for me (rather selfish I thought!)
>
>Tell me about your Piet. Did you buy it, build it, is it finished,
>what engine???
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet and aileron gap sealing |
That looks like Watson Hartway's old plane. I was probably his last
student for tailwheel transition and now rent his old hangar at 01G. We
had a lot of fun flying off 15 hours of dual when I bought the Taylorcraft.
I also had a BFR from the guy that bought the plane outof the
estate. During the BFR I found out that that was his first hour of
Taylorcraft time.
Dave
N36078 '41 BC-12-65
At 07:08 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote:
>Douwe,
>
>Sorry you can't make it this year. My dad, a friend, and I bought our Piet
>last August and we along with my wife will be at Brodhead. Thanks for
>asking about it.
>
>Our Piet was built in 1976 by a fellow in upstate NY. It's only got about
>300 hrs on it. Trucked in down in a UHaul. That was a long drive that
>ended safely but in a downpour at the home airport. The workmanship is
>excellent, it's always been hangared and the fabric is in great shape. The
>original engine was an A65. Though it was low-time, it had issues and has
>since been replaced with a C-75. With two on board (180 lbs and 160 lbs)
>and full fuel (14 gal), we climb out at about 450 fpm on a fairly standard day.
>
>The engine swap helps on take-off and climb. However, the biggest gain
>we've seen, certainly the biggest compared to the effort, was sealing the
>aileron gaps with translucent duct tape. Before this, I always felt that
>the plane was balanced on a knife edge on both axes. It was jittery and
>just downright un-fun to fly in any circumstance other than dead still
>air. Even in dead still air, initiating a control input was like being
>slammed in turbulence - I'd move the stick, nothing would happen, then (as
>Emeril would say) BAM! the plane would lurch over into a turn. Even in
>light chop it was real work to fly the thing.
>
>Now, it is rock solid. The response is fairly quick, but s-m-o-o-t-h and
>predictable. I highly suggest it to anyone who is flying with open gaps.
>It really adds joy to the whole experience.
>
>Another thing we've found is that the plane is happiest at about 70 mph.
>It'll do 90, but even at 80 it is just not as fun an experience. Maybe
>bigger windscreens or better rigging would help. But, it sure is fun at
>70, so why bother?
>
>A picture of the Piet and me is at the Pietenpol frappr site:
>
>http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=1251828&pid=1983898
>
>Jeff
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
In a message dated 6/27/2006 8:29:07 AM Central Standard Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
I've been told by more than one aircraft owner that Marvel Mystery Oil is
good for anything that ails a small Continental; in the oil and in the fuel.
Anybody have any good or bad things to say about it?
I use it in my fuel, and oil, but can't really say yay or nay about it...just
going on the words of others about it.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Brussels, and the British |
Mine already does. In nonstructural places
balsa is light and strong enough to be effective.
I used it to give shape and solidity to the ply
cover at the front of the turtledeck. The ply
itself is 1/64" which gives a hard surface to
that area. If I used ply strong enough to put
any weight on it would be a lot heavier than
what I've done. Also I covered the entire
inside of the first bay of the turtle deck with
1/32" ply, glueing it to the inside of the
stringers. Nothing to glue the edges to so
1/2" square balsa was used.
The pic shows the balsa and the ply with
contact cement ready to be mated.
Clif
>
>
Hope no balsa ends up in
> the Piet!!
>
> Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: more basic planning questions. |
John,
Useful load is almost entirely a function of wing design, shape and
size. The increased climb rate, some increase in top speed, etc. can be
influenced by prop or engine HP, these are variables you can control.
But the wing has a max. loading, it can carry the plane's weight (which
you can control by building lighter), and other "useful" stuff like fuel
and you (which you can vary), up to the max allowable for wing loading-
lbs/sq.ft. Max wing loading allows for pulling G's in turns up to the
limits of the category normally 3.8g's. You want more useful load, you
gotta change the wing, ie. increased length, more chord width, diff
shape, etc. Goggle it, and/or buy book on subject. The original Piete
airfoil is "birdlike", it has a comparatively high coefficient of lift
but higher drag due to it's shape results in lower landing speed but
also lower cruise speed. One option you have for the wing is to buy a
used wing set off of an Aeronca or SuperCub, etc., and attach this to
the traditional Piete design. That is one of the beautiful things about
the Piete. This will give you a diff plane design with higher loadings
possible, higher cruise but normally higher landing speeds. Everything
is a trade-off.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more basic planning questions.
I would like to achieve a wider range of useable load and climb
performance without too many sacrifices.
With the exception of the prop. What are the other variables to
increasing useable load? Is this a horsepower only issue and what are
the other variables?
I realize there are a series of design compromises that accompany
design changes so I was curious as where the useable comes from and how
is that determined?
Naturally the collective experience and insight and topic knowledge is
greatly appreciated in answering one of many basic questions I have.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Brussels, and the British |
Rats! Here I thought I was being original and
I'm not! I even made a small peanut scale
model with a Tigermoth style fuel tank to see if
I liked it. And there it is already. At least I can
see that it looks perfectly fine.
Another one. Look at the pic of the inside of the
motorcycle wheel. Did you see the strap cable
under the bungee? That is what keeps the brake
assembly from turning. One end to the front leg
and the other to the lower rear of the brake face
plate. The only time the brakes are used is when
the plane is taxiing, hopefully not overrunning the
end of the runway! :-) Hopefully this means the
axle won't be bouncing up and down a whole lot.
so there won't be much fore and aft travel at the
plate connection. The drawings I did a few weeks
ago show that even with an axle travel of 3" that
point will only travel 1/4". I don't know about this
one but my baseplate will not be welded to the
axle.
This system eliminates those fancy axel locater
brackets and tubes, (eg Mike Cuy for one),
I remember a whole raft of messages concerned
with welding such things and at least one axel
breaking at that weld. There's the solution, tried
and true, quick and Pietenpol dirty. Right before
your eyes in Brussels Ontario.
Clif, now in possession of a giant lawn dart.
From: Bill Church
Okay, I finally got those photos from the Brussels, Ontario Pietenpol
fly-in downloaded. As I had a few requests, I have posted them at
Mykitplane.com - here's a link:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=290
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
Check this out.
Clif
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Wall-Clock-Pietenpol-Airplane-Aircraft-New-In-Box_
W0QQitemZ4460667074QQihZ001QQcategoryZ79647QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV
iewItem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hayes, Mike" <Mike.Hayes(at)denco.co.uk> |
| Subject: | A65-8 Piston Rings |
Dear Chaps,
My Continental A65-8, has recently had a top end overhaul, following which I
am now investigating uneven cylinder temperatures. It might be a mixture
thing as plugs in one cylinder are lighter brown than others, but could also
be due to piston rings.
Each piston has two compression rings, and a third oil scraper ring. At the
bottom of each piston is a fourth oil scraper ring. The only difference I
can see between the compression rings and the oil scraper rings is that the
scraper rings have had one of the outside corners removed, leaving a very
small square channel, or step. I believe that the top oil scraper ring
should have this step facing downwards, and the bottom one should have it
facing upwards. Could anybody please confirm if this is correct and maybe
provide a brief explanation?
I also need a spare scraper ring because I have broken one, but one source
of information suggests I "will be alright" just using an old compression
ring in its place. Doesn't sound right to me - but would appreciate any
input.
Anybody know where I could get some spare scraper rings?
Thanks and regards,
Mike Hayes
G-BKVO
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message and any associated files sent by Denco Limited are
confidential, and intended only for the addressee named above.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the IT Helpdesk
by telephone immediately on 01432 377368 (UK) or +(44) 1432 377 368
(international) or return it to us by e-mail quoting the name of the
sender and the address. Please also be advised that you have received
this email in error and that any disclosure and/or use of the information
contained within this email or attachments is strictly prohibited.
Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely those of the
sender and do not necessarily represent those of Denco Limited, its
divisions and/or subsidiaries, unless otherwise specifically stated.
Please note that this e-mail and any attachments have not been encrypted.
They may therefore be liable to be compromised. This is an inherent
risk in relation to e-mail. Denco Holdings Limited its divisions
subsidiaries and divisions of subsidiaries do not, to the extent
permitted by law, accept any liability (whether in contract, negligence
or otherwise) for any changes made to this e-mail after it has been
sent by the original sender, any external compromises of security and/or
breaches of confidentiality in relation to transmissions sent by e-mail.
We cannot to the extent permitted by law accept any liability (whether
in contract, negligence or otherwise) for any damage sustained as a
result of any software viruses and it is therefore your responsibility
to scan the attachments (if any) and carry out your own virus check before
opening any attachments.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet and aileron gap sealing |
Dave,
You are correct! It is Mr. Harway's old plane. Do you know anything
about its history? We bought it from Brian Swanson. Brian didn't have
a lot of information about the plane.
Thanks,
Jeff
>That looks like Watson Hartway's old plane. I was probably his last
>student for tailwheel transition and now rent his old hangar at 01G.
>We had a lot of fun flying off 15 hours of dual when I bought the
>Taylorcraft.
>
>I also had a BFR from the guy that bought the plane outof the
>estate. During the BFR I found out that that was his first hour of
>Taylorcraft time.
>
>Dave
>N36078 '41 BC-12-65
>
>At 07:08 PM 6/27/2006, you wrote:
--
_____________________________________________________________
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | N502R's trip home |
Seem like there is a lot of knowledge here on this site. I would like
to know why, when you make perfect landings there's never anyone around
to watch but when you're bringing you're new plane home and there's an
unexpected group of friends and family waiting and watching, you manage
a controlled crash (bad enough that you need a go around and try again)?
Oh well.....
What a flight! Flew my new Pietenpol N502R from the Florida/Georgia
border (Thomasville, Ga.) to Camden (Western Tennessee) and loved very
minute/foot of it.
My first landing was the worst landing I have ever made (a very bad
bounce and hammer down to abort. Around the pattern and try again, this
time with a little power. What a difference! What a great landing!
The kind where the only way you know your down is hearing the yelp of
the tires. From then on, as I flew cross country every landing was
perfect (up until I got home).
What a great plane! What a great cross country trip! At 65 hp it's not
fast (60 to 70 mph) and has a real distain for climbing but I have never
enjoyed a flight ( I should say flights) as much as I have this cross
country in my new open cockpit airplane.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | cht thermocouple washer and copper spark plug washer annealing |
Guys-- I know that when you change or clean spark plugs you should either
use a new copper plug washer
or anneal (heat red hot w/ a propane torch, then water quench to soften)
the used ones, but my questions is:
do you use a copper washer over or with a CHT thermocouple washer ?? Do
you also anneal the thermocouple
washer as well to make it seal well, become soft or is that not recommended ?
I fear that I'm not getting a good seal on that plug where the cht washer is.
She's not burning as well and fouls up. The plug is good---bench fires fine.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: N502R's trip home |
Way to go, Gene !
Glad to hear you brought your new plane home after your purchase and that
all went well. You have to watch hot days with power lines and trees
at the far end as you're right----she doesn't want to climb at a great rate.
Good to hear your landings are getting better too. You really will get a
touch for doing those and the 'view' you need to see in up front for things
to work out. You should have some good open cockpit weather all the way
up to the Thanksgiving timeframe in TN I'll bet.
I have to stop flying around Halloween or so (ask Walt E. or others up
yonder here) and hope for a few oddly nice weather days between then and
May 1st here in Ohio.....but we get the good flying in while we can, just
like folks who have boats or campers !
Congratulations and don't be a stranger on the list !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Adding lightness |
Hi everybody.
As I am still compiling information and have not started building I'm
wondering how to build light.
I wonder if anybody has done a spreadsheet on weights. I have seen some
weights for tails wings and fuselage but what about the little parts.
Instruments wheels landing gear etc.
What are you builders thoughts if you had to build again to minimize weight
what would you target?
Wood is the first thing but the glue and gusssets are what they are. I
thought of rounding off all the stringers and longerons, improves looks,
helps varnish stick, looks better shaves. some weight. Build short tail
standard width minimum fuel tank and instruments. I would think finish is a
big area of possible savings and always weight watchers for the pilot.
What are the top ten things to do to add lightness. Lets hear your
thoughts.
Steve in Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My Piet and aileron gap sealing |
My Piet and aileron gap sealingHey Jeff,
I believe that your reason for using gap seals was explained better than
any argument I have ever heard before on the subject. It always is good
to learn from experience.
Now we have the first article for the Piet Newsletter.
Barry
Big Piet Builders - Carrollton, Ga
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 8:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Piet and aileron gap sealing
Douwe,
Sorry you can't make it this year. My dad, a friend, and I bought our
Piet last August and we along with my wife will be at Brodhead. Thanks
for asking about it.
Our Piet was built in 1976 by a fellow in upstate NY. It's only got
about 300 hrs on it. Trucked in down in a UHaul. That was a long drive
that ended safely but in a downpour at the home airport. The workmanship
is excellent, it's always been hangared and the fabric is in great
shape. The original engine was an A65. Though it was low-time, it had
issues and has since been replaced with a C-75. With two on board (180
lbs and 160 lbs) and full fuel (14 gal), we climb out at about 450 fpm
on a fairly standard day.
The engine swap helps on take-off and climb. However, the biggest gain
we've seen, certainly the biggest compared to the effort, was sealing
the aileron gaps with translucent duct tape. Before this, I always felt
that the plane was balanced on a knife edge on both axes. It was jittery
and just downright un-fun to fly in any circumstance other than dead
still air. Even in dead still air, initiating a control input was like
being slammed in turbulence - I'd move the stick, nothing would happen,
then (as Emeril would say) BAM! the plane would lurch over into a turn.
Even in light chop it was real work to fly the thing.
Now, it is rock solid. The response is fairly quick, but s-m-o-o-t-h
and predictable. I highly suggest it to anyone who is flying with open
gaps. It really adds joy to the whole experience.
Another thing we've found is that the plane is happiest at about 70
mph. It'll do 90, but even at 80 it is just not as fun an experience.
Maybe bigger windscreens or better rigging would help. But, it sure is
fun at 70, so why bother?
A picture of the Piet and me is at the Pietenpol frappr site:
http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=1251828&pid=1983898
Jeff
I can't believe it, but I won't be able to make this year. My best
friend is getting married on Sat and simply refused to postpone it for
me (rather selfish I thought!)
Tell me about your Piet. Did you buy it, build it, is it finished,
what engine???
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning from others
at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix well with
fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of the Cub
pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some crashes by
clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I will
pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine oil and
running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great job at
cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: more basic planning questions. |
Unfortunatly, the greatest variable in achiving greater useful load is
for the pilot to lose a great deal of weight. For me that would involve
not drinking beer, eating ice cream or a few other things I enjoy. So
we're down to increasing power, going to a C-85 or O-200 which I don't
have the extra cash for. I just I can't give a ride to a 200 lb guy on a
warm day.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more basic planning questions.
I would like to achieve a wider range of useable load and climb
performance without too many sacrifices.
With the exception of the prop. What are the other variables to
increasing useable load? Is this a horsepower only issue and what are
the other variables?
I realize there are a series of design compromises that accompany
design changes so I was curious as where the useable comes from and how
is that determined?
Naturally the collective experience and insight and topic knowledge is
greatly appreciated in answering one of many basic questions I have.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
A long time ago some person told me that dripping water into the mouth
of the carburator while the engine is running also cleans it out.I have
never tried this and I'm not even sure it would work.Hell for all I know
it might blow the head of an engine but sometimes these old guys have
some pretty weird ideas that work.Anybody out there ever heard of this
procedure or am I just blown smoke here?
________________________________
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: June 28, 2006 11:38 AM
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning from others
at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix well with
fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of the Cub
pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some crashes by
clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I will
pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine oil and
running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great job at
cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | to add lightness, don't add things you don't need |
Steve--- You can build a good performing Air Camper and still have such
things as brakes, tailwheel, tailwheel steering
a 17 gallon nose/firewall fuel tank, a roomy luggage compartment in the
center section, and still come in (as mine did) around
632 pounds empty weight w/ a 65 hp. Continental.
Ways to avoid building a ground lover is to not add an electrical system of
any kind (unless you absolutely have to for your airspace
requirements) don't put in front instruments, don't use carpet or
upholstery, don't worry about the basic parts---build them just like the
plans call for, use 3/32" cables instead of 1/8" where it calls for even
tho the 1/8" makes some people feel more secure, avoid the auto
engines unless you like the Corvair which has a good power-to-weight
ratio, don't add a ventui or vacuum system or gauges that you
shouldn't ever even need in a plane like a Pietenpol. If you need to use
a radio and gps, use the hand-held versions---they work great.
If you want more lift, add some length to the wings. Bill Rewey and
others have made the center section wider to give a longer wing
span and with 65 hp Bill Rewey can haul some big passengers because of that
added wing area. (plus his is a basic Piet--no frills.
I'm sure others have some good suggestions that I've not mentioned, but
don't go splitting hairs like wasting time pulling out rib nails or
staples after the glue has dried unless you are totally bored.
Lastly----do not quit or sell your project. If you don't have a burning
desire to complete this plane and fly it, just enjoy it as an enthusiast
from the enthusiast's perspective. This is a long-haul project that will
tax your will, patience, and time like nothing else you've ever done.
But.....if you stick it out to the end, there is no better feeling of
satisfaction and accomplishment.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
Dick-- I add the MMO just like you do-----before fueling and I've never had
a lick of trouble with my gascolator, carb screen or
fuel flow. I even did another fuel flow test last summer and I am getting
the exact same flow at the carb as I got when the system was
new 400 hours ago.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hogan, James" <JHogan(at)jpmc.org> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning the combustion |
chamber
I have a Saturn that burns lots of oil and I read about pouring water
(about as fast as you would add milk to your coffee) with the engine
running between 2000 and 2500 rpm. The water steam cleans the
combustion chamber and if you pour a little fast it will bog down the
engine a little. I've done this a couple of times (nearly a half
gallon of water the first time) and each time the engine runs
significantly better, stops knocking, and the plugs looked better.
Expect lots of white smoke when/if you do this! I did this knowing I'm
going to need engine work in the near future so I wasn't so concerned.
If you read the DIY section on Saturnfans.com you should find quite a
bit of discussion on their forums.
James H
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:12 AM
A long time ago some person told me that dripping water into the mouth
of the carburator while the engine is running also cleans it out.I have
never tried this and I'm not even sure it would work.Hell for all I know
it might blow the head of an engine but sometimes these old guys have
some pretty weird ideas that work.Anybody out there ever heard of this
procedure or am I just blown smoke here?
_____
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: June 28, 2006 11:38 AM
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning from others
at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix well with
fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of the Cub
pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some crashes by
clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I will
pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine oil and
running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great job at
cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
This message and any included attachments are intended only for the use of the
individual or entity to which it is intended and may contain information that
is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Unauthorized
forwarding, printing, copying, distribution, or use of this information
is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended
recipient, please promptly delete this message and notify the sender of the delivery
error by e-mail or you may notify postmaster(at)jpmc.org of the error.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
Boy, I sure hate to get involved in this discussing. Please don't kill
the messenger....I'm not pro or con on the subject, I'm just relaying on
information. Some folks kinda feel that talking about Marvel Mystery
Oil is like talking about their mother. You'd better watch what you
say.
On another site (Yahoo Avid Flyers) the subject was brought up a few
years ago as a number of folks use it in their two strokes. Someone
posted an excerp from a NTSB investigation that listed Marvel Myster Oil
as being made of Mineral Oil, Stoddard Salvent and Lard.
I really know very little about 4 stroke engines and everything I read
will be a big help for me. What kind of fuel burn does the rest of you
guys that fly behind a 65 Continental get? Are you using Av gas or auto
gas?
Gene
New to the site and new to flying (and loving) a Pietenpol.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning from
others at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix well
with fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of the
Cub pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some crashes by
clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I will
pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine oil and
running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great job at
cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
chamber
If memory serves me right, the old P-51 and some other piston driven
WWII prop fighters had a water injection system for their fuel. Not
sure about the science but worked for them with RRoyce engines etc..
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Hogan, James
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning
thecombustion chamber
I have a Saturn that burns lots of oil and I read about pouring water
(about as fast as you would add milk to your coffee) with the engine
running between 2000 and 2500 rpm. The water steam cleans the
combustion chamber and if you pour a little fast it will bog down the
engine a little. I've done this a couple of times (nearly a half
gallon of water the first time) and each time the engine runs
significantly better, stops knocking, and the plugs looked better.
Expect lots of white smoke when/if you do this! I did this knowing I'm
going to need engine work in the near future so I wasn't so concerned.
If you read the DIY section on Saturnfans.com you should find quite a
bit of discussion on their forums.
James H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:12 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
A long time ago some person told me that dripping water into the
mouth of the carburator while the engine is running also cleans it out.I
have never tried this and I'm not even sure it would work.Hell for all I
know it might blow the head of an engine but sometimes these old guys
have some pretty weird ideas that work.Anybody out there ever heard of
this procedure or am I just blown smoke here?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: June 28, 2006 11:38 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning from
others at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix well
with fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of the
Cub pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some crashes by
clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I
will pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine oil
and running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great job
at cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
This message and any included attachments are intended only for the
use of the individual or entity to which it is intended and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. Unauthorized forwarding, printing, copying,
distribution, or use of this information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please promptly
delete this message and notify the sender of the delivery error by
e-mail or you may notify postmaster(at)jpmc.org of the error.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
Many supercharged and high-compression gasoline burners use water
injection. The purpose is to lower the peak pre-ignition temperatures
in the combustion chamber, especially at high manifold pressures.
Any time you rapidly compress a gas such as air, you get a corresponding
temperature increase. If the air is already compressed, and heated, by
a supercharger (or turbocharger) when it enters the cylinder on the
intake stroke, the compression stroke in the cyclinder can cause the
temperature of the already-hot fuel/air mixture to reach the ignition
point, causing what we recognize as pinging. Injecting a small amount
of water into the intake stream cools it, hopefully enough so that the
spark plug gets the honor of igniting the mix.
Whether or not such engines are cleaner because of the injection, I
can't say.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning
thecombustion chamber
If memory serves me right, the old P-51 and some other piston driven
WWII prop fighters had a water injection system for their fuel. Not
sure about the science but worked for them with RRoyce engines etc..
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N502R's trip home |
Mike,
Thanks for the advice. This list has been great help all the way around.
Jack Phillips was kind enough to send me an account of his trip and I can't
put into words how much that helped. I really was not use to dealing with
the minimal climbing abilities of the Piet and I'm sure that I would have
thought there was somthing wrong with the plane. Having been prepared by
reading Jack's account I found everything about the Piet very enjoyable.
I plan on putting a lot of hours on this plane and having spent some 45
years in Alaska I don't think these Tennessee winters will stop me from
putting on a snow machine suit and enjoying some fine winter flying.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:06 AM
>
>
> Way to go, Gene !
>
> Glad to hear you brought your new plane home after your purchase and that
> all went well. You have to watch hot days with power lines and trees
>
> at the far end as you're right----she doesn't want to climb at a great
> rate.
>
> Good to hear your landings are getting better too. You really will get a
> touch for doing those and the 'view' you need to see in up front for
> things
>
> to work out. You should have some good open cockpit weather all the way
> up to the Thanksgiving timeframe in TN I'll bet.
>
> I have to stop flying around Halloween or so (ask Walt E. or others up
> yonder here) and hope for a few oddly nice weather days between then and
>
> May 1st here in Ohio.....but we get the good flying in while we can, just
> like folks who have boats or campers !
>
> Congratulations and don't be a stranger on the list !
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: to add lightness, don't add things you don't need |
Mike,
You have a very great gift of encouragement. That last paragraph almost
brought tears to my eyes!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adding lightness |
Steve,
There is no secret. Just build to the plans. Most have the opinion,,,"how
can I change this, or how can I change that".
If you don't go there, you'll build light.
I only changed the aileron hinges to piano hinges,,,and slight mod on the
split gear where the "V" comes together down by the axle,,,and not much
more.
My empty weight was 595#
I can take my fat arse of 200# and a number of friends 200/225#, no problem.
Climb is a little slower, but no white knuckles.
But I see what the heavy guys go thru. When I fill the 14 gal nose tank ,
and the 10 gal wing tank, I'm up where you heavy guys are without a
passenger.
walt evans
NX140DL
PS anybody know this guy? :^)
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:45 AM
>
>
> Hi everybody.
>
> As I am still compiling information and have not started building I'm
> wondering how to build light.
>
> I wonder if anybody has done a spreadsheet on weights. I have seen some
> weights for tails wings and fuselage but what about the little parts.
> Instruments wheels landing gear etc.
>
> What are you builders thoughts if you had to build again to minimize
> weight what would you target?
>
> Wood is the first thing but the glue and gusssets are what they are. I
> thought of rounding off all the stringers and longerons, improves looks,
> helps varnish stick, looks better shaves. some weight. Build short tail
> standard width minimum fuel tank and instruments. I would think finish is
> a big area of possible savings and always weight watchers for the pilot.
>
> What are the top ten things to do to add lightness. Lets hear your
> thoughts.
>
> Steve in Maine
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
congratulations Gene on your purchase,and glad to hear you had agood trip
home. this is Randy Bush ,I'm the one Jack was telling you about with the piet
under construction near Lexington TN,I'm between Lexington and Jackson at exit
93 law rd.off I-40 youre welcome to stop in any time,just give me a call I'm
usually around on weekends 731 267 0578
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adding lightness |
As Walt's featured 210 lb passenger, I can attest that the plane flies nicely with
a heavy payload :))
No white knuckles on me either Walt!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=43662#43662
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
Gene
I have a A-65 and burn about 4.5 gph when flying around 2000 msl, better
burn at 3000 about 3.9 gph. I go back and forth between 100LL and
mogas. Just be sure there is no ethanol.
Has anyone ever taken a sniff of Marvel . Smells like Vasoline
Petroleum Jelly to me.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
Boy, I sure hate to get involved in this discussing. Please don't
kill the messenger....I'm not pro or con on the subject, I'm just
relaying on information. Some folks kinda feel that talking about
Marvel Mystery Oil is like talking about their mother. You'd better
watch what you say.
On another site (Yahoo Avid Flyers) the subject was brought up a few
years ago as a number of folks use it in their two strokes. Someone
posted an excerp from a NTSB investigation that listed Marvel Myster Oil
as being made of Mineral Oil, Stoddard Salvent and Lard.
I really know very little about 4 stroke engines and everything I read
will be a big help for me. What kind of fuel burn does the rest of you
guys that fly behind a 65 Continental get? Are you using Av gas or auto
gas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil |
In a message dated 6/28/2006 11:15:55 AM Central Standard Time,
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca writes:
A long time ago some person told me that dripping water into the mouth of th
e
carburator while the engine is running also cleans it out.I have never tried
this and I=99m not even sure it would work.Hell for all I know it migh
t blow the
head of an engine but sometimes these old guys have some pretty weird ideas
that work.Anybody out there ever heard of this procedure or am I just blown
smoke here?
This method works on an engine that has excessive carbon buildup in the
combustion chamber, and under the intake valves...a condition caused by exce
ssive
rich mixture. The Hydrogen in the water is what softens the carbon, and ero
des
it away. I've used this method on the large trucks, with gas engines, I use
d
to work on. I've also used it on several automobile engines, and it helps
the engine run better, if it had the carbon build up.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SSchof4277(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
chamber
I flew a Convair 440 with P&W R-2800's and they had water injection but it
was only used during take off, to allow for higher manifold pressures without
detonation. I don't remember if it was pure water or a water / alcohol mix.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil |
Up here we look for the dirtiest mogas we can find and that would be
ESSO.Anything else may have ethanol in it and that's bad.Someday all
mogas will have ethanol since our government is bent on this direction
and that will be a sad day for us.I know of no one up here in my area
who uses Marvel Mystery oil.Then again I'm not in touch with most of the
pilots in the area ,only the ones in our RAA.
________________________________
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: June 28, 2006 3:17 PM
Boy, I sure hate to get involved in this discussing. Please don't kill
the messenger....I'm not pro or con on the subject, I'm just relaying on
information. Some folks kinda feel that talking about Marvel Mystery
Oil is like talking about their mother. You'd better watch what you
say.
On another site (Yahoo Avid Flyers) the subject was brought up a few
years ago as a number of folks use it in their two strokes. Someone
posted an excerp from a NTSB investigation that listed Marvel Myster Oil
as being made of Mineral Oil, Stoddard Salvent and Lard.
I really know very little about 4 stroke engines and everything I read
will be a big help for me. What kind of fuel burn does the rest of you
guys that fly behind a 65 Continental get? Are you using Av gas or auto
gas?
Gene
New to the site and new to flying (and loving) a Pietenpol.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil <mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil
I have been adding MMO to my fuel. However, I got a warning
from others at our EAA meeting last week. Apparantly, MMO does not mix
well with fuel and it is necessary to pre mix it into the gas. Some of
the Cub pilots at the meeting were saying that it had caused some
crashes by clogging the gascolator.
I had been just pouring the MMO into the tank before fueling. I
will pump out the tank bottom with a hand pump to check for unmixed oil
before flying again.
These guys also were saying that adding 2 cycle oil to engine
oil and running the engine for a while before changing oil does a great
job at cleaning the insides. I havent tried that.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | don't add things you don't need |
Thank you, Dan
I'm glad the posts are helping you stay encouraged ! I guess that even
though my project has been flying for
almost 8 years (that is unreal) I still vividly recall the feelings of
discouragement along the building path---and that was while
I didn't have a wife or family around so I had the time and the money to
build, build, build.
I'm sure that building a kit is quite a haul too, but to scratch build
something like a Pietenpol, we need all the motivation, encouragement,
and kicks in the pants we can get !
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the best
way to route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs from
the pull to the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits
through a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good.
What have you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in the
right spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a
rainstorm, water will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good
drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe to
spray in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest house
is 50 ft, so I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast drying time
of dope will allowme to spray here rather than trucking everything
somewhere else.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
I hesitate to write because Mike (as always) said it so well. So I'll
basically reiterate what he said.
When building a high-drag, relatively low wing area airframe like a
Piet, it is vital that weight be kept down, and it sounds like you get
that, so that's the first step... understanding that.
I think when you build every part, or add anything it is good to ask
yourself, "do I need this" and "can this be done lighter".
As Mike said, I would NOT try to build the basic airframe lighter,
because it is exceptionally strong and proven and really not overweight
as it is, so why mess with it. It's all the other stuff we add that
does the damage to the overall weight.
I was really impressed with Allen Rudolph's old Ford powered Piet up at
Brodhead last year. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think
someone said it was right around 600, maybe under, with a Model A
engine! so it can be done! and oh, what a beautifully simple airplane!!
Like you said, build the original fuse, don't add width unless you need
it. Use light ceconite, don't pile on tons of paint/dope/polyfiber.
Don't use silver on the bottom surfaces unless you plan on lots of
inverted flight time. Keep your seatbelts light, cushions to a minimum,
instruments to a minimum (I am using a light wing mounted airspeed
indicator, saving the panel mounted unit and pitot system) Make your
wingscreens no thicker than needed.
And remember, every pound in the tail equals four in the nose, so keep
things light back there.
The Piet is a pure fun flying machine and is designed for no other
reason than to fly around the puddle. There weren't any frills on it,
you didn't need them, the frills are what's around you and below you.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
Douwe,
I HVLP'ed N-1033B in backyard in FL, from chromate on metal to final
coats on fabric. You just have to insure the wind is very calm and
surface you're painting is dry. I painted early morn and late evening,
mid-day the slight breeze was too much. WEAR A GOOD CARBON-MASK TIGHT
TO YOUR FACE.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpolgroup
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 4:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the
best way to route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs
from the pull to the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits
through a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good.
What have you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in
the right spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a
rainstorm, water will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good
drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe
to spray in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest
house is 50 ft, so I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast
drying time of dope will allowme to spray here rather than trucking
everything somewhere else.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning thecombustion |
chamber
I use to service a fleet of Convairs. All recips. the 2-3-440 series all
used "ADI" fluid and was actually nothing more than antifreeze...thats
right, Ethylne Glycol. A 50/50 mix (water) tp prevent it from freezing
at altitude. It increases compression at High MP's to prevent
pre-ignition just as you say.
I sure miss the old Convairs. Love those and the Martin 404's were nice
too. I got a little stick time but not too much. Most of the flights I
"jumped" were PT and I just rode along for the fun of it...and to look
for oil leaks streaming out the nacelle's. they usually did despite my
beat efforts.
Dave...(remanissing) Down in Florida----- Original Message -----
From: SSchof4277(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - Steam cleaning
thecombustion chamber
I flew a Convair 440 with P&W R-2800's and they had water injection
but it was only used during take off, to allow for higher manifold
pressures without detonation. I don't remember if it was pure water or a
water / alcohol mix.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
In a message dated 6/29/2006 7:38:01 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to spray my wings, but am a bit unsure as to the best way
to route the upper aileron cable through the fabric as it runs from the pull to
the aileron control horn.
I read Chuck's message about how he does the bottom one where it exits
through a plexi inspection circle screwed on, and it sounds pretty good. What
have
you guys done up top?
I'm leaning towards just putting a patch there and burning a hole in the
right spot. doesn't seem like anything else is necessary. In a rainstorm, water
will certainly find its way in, so I'd better have good drainage.
Also, would anyone with HVLP spraying experience tell me if it's safe to
spray in my backyard? There are no cars around, and the closest house is 50 ft,
so I'm hoping the minimal overspray, plus the fast drying time of dope will
allowme to spray here rather than trucking everything somewhere else.
Douwe
Douwe,
The bottom aileron cable that goes to the bottom of the horn, passes
through a piece of round LEXAN, not Plexiglas. Lexan is Much tougher than
Plexiglas. I used 8 countersunk screws to secure the clear Lexan to a piece of
1/4"
plywood joggled to accept the lexan cover, under the fabric. The fabric then
wraps around the plywood, then the Lexan cover is installed on top of the
fabric. The hole in the Lexan that the cable passes through is on the exact
angle the cable is, and is just barely big enough for the cable, which is why it
can be used as the actual fairlead, that keeps the cable in the groove of the
pulley. The tradeoff with Lexan is that any fuel spilled on it will make it
crack, unless it is treated (including the edges), when used for a windshield.
Plexiglas is fuel resistant, but not nearly as tough as Lexan. For the top
cable, I glued a 2 1/2" or 3" oval piece of 1/16" plywood to the fabric, then
covered the plywood with another fabric patch, overlapping the plywood by 1 1/2"
or 2" with the fabric patch. Those upper and lower aileron horn pulleys
MUST have some type of fairleads to keep the cables in the pulleys. A fabric
patch is NOT good enough for a fairlead. I have some good pictures of it on my
web site.
Years ago, I've painted over 100 cars with the old syphon type guns, but
they are totally antiquated by the HVLP type spray equipment. I'm buying new
HVLP spray equipment, but haven't used it yet. I think that's the Only way to
go.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
http://nx770cg.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: to aileron cable fairing/hvlp spraying |
In a message dated 6/29/2006 12:38:13 PM Central Standard Time,
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net writes:
WEAR A GOOD CARBON-MASK TIGHT TO YOUR FACE.
Yep, but an air supply would be much healthier, especially when using any of
the epoxy paints. If you do use just a mask, you Absolutely Are Not Allowed
to have a beard while doing this work. In other words, you must have 100%
perfect seal around the mask.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: building light |
In a message dated 6/29/2006 7:53:59 AM Central Standard Time,
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:
The Piet is a pure fun flying machine and is designed for no other reason
than to fly around the puddle.
Very true, but in '04 I did a 3100 mile cross country flight in the ol
Pietenpol !! Best adventure of my life !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Carter" <flyinhobo(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cht thermocouple washer and copper spark plug washer |
annealing
Mike, You should not use a washer along with the ring type CHT
Thermacouple. (it would shorten the plug) The ring type CHT should seal the
same as the washer does. Just be careful and don't let it turn while
tightening the plug. As far as annealing the thermocouple, I believe that
would ruin the thermocouple. Paul (a non-practicing A&P)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:45 AM
washer annealing
>
>
> Guys-- I know that when you change or clean spark plugs you should either
> use a new copper plug washer
>
> or anneal (heat red hot w/ a propane torch, then water quench to soften)
> the used ones, but my questions is:
>
> do you use a copper washer over or with a CHT thermocouple washer ?? Do
> you also anneal the thermocouple
>
> washer as well to make it seal well, become soft or is that not
> recommended ?
>
> I fear that I'm not getting a good seal on that plug where the cht washer
> is.
>
> She's not burning as well and fouls up. The plug is good---bench fires
> fine.
>
> Mike
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
thanks everybody!
HVLP it is, seems like a big milestone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | FGM blurry plans |
Hey everyone,
I have just recently changed my mind regarding the style of landing gear
to put on my Air Camper (when I get to that stage). I had been going to
go with the split gear, with springs instead of bungees, and big fat air
tires (similar to what Ken Perkins has on his plane), but now I'm almost
positive I'm going to go with Jenny style straight axle wood gear and
motorcycle wheels. Why am I bothering you guys with this? Well, I was
looking over the plans in my copy of the Flying and Glider Manual for
details about this gear, and I'll be darned if I can make out the fine
print. The quality of the printing leaves something to be desired (like
readability). I realize that most of the dimensions will need to be
"tweaked" to match what I build, but I can't even make out the gages of
the steel. Why did they reprint that stuff so small? Anyone that has
managed to build and successfully fly a plane from those plans deserves
extra credit. So, here are my questions; Is my copy worse than most, or
is everyone's FGM printing blurry? Does anyone out there have a clearly
legible copy of those landing gear plans? Are the thicknesses of the
steel 12 gage for the lower turnbuckle fitting and the wing strut
fitting, and 16 gage for all the other parts? (at least that would be a
starting point).
Thanks,
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 oil screen removal |
Anybody have handy tips for removing the big nut that holds the oil screen
into the A65 rear case? These old engines have been serviced so many
hundreds of times by so many people that most of them have one or more
corners rounded off of the square head of the nut. Mine is that way and I
don't want to mess it up anymore than it is already. I put a Crescent
wrench on it and tried to loosen it, but no matter what I do it wants to
round the corners off and so I haven't pushed it. I know I need to service
the screen because it is so dusty flying in south Texas and I have a new
copper gasket for it ready to go if I can just get the nut off and the
screen out for cleaning.
I'm even thinking of trying to fabricate a special wrench with a square hole
so it can get a purchase on all four corners of the nut, but even that might
be iffy with these rounded corners. Any help appreciated.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
June 20, 2006 - June 30, 2006
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fe