Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fg

July 31, 2006 - August 13, 2006



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      ------=_NextPart_000_6aa2_6fc_520f--
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net>
Date: Jul 31, 2006
Subject: Re: the double-nickel
Yes Walt...there IS "something" out there...beyond your wildest dreams. And the day you discover it...the angels will be rejoicing in Heaven...and down here too! Trust me on this. :-) Dave...(for what its worth to you...and a LOT I hope) Down in Florida ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:05 PM > > Good for you! > I'm still smilling. > Life truely is GRAND! > I'm not a religious guy, but I've seen enough thru the years with my > father passing , and things I've seen , to know that there is something > out there. > walt evans > NX140DL > > "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" > Ben Franklin > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 6:25 PM > > >> >> Others will chime in on their age I suppose, but I was 26 when I started >> building. Finished it at 29-1/2. On Nov 19th the piet will be 9 years >> old. I'm just 1/10 hr short of 333.33 hours on the tach. I'm 38 and >> have 5 kids, all of whom love to fly in the piet. Even my wife will go >> about once a year! I confirmed just last night with my mom that my >> first word was 'airplane' watching A4's landing in Kingsville TX as a >> kid. I solo'ed on my 16th birthday and PPSEL checkride on my 17th. Man >> was meant to fly, anyone who might disagree is in denial. Just take a >> kid flying and their smile will prove it. >> >> >> Life is Grand. I flew 28 Young Eagles at our chapter rallye last >> month,(albeit in a 172)... lots of smiles! >> >> Steve E. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch >> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 3:53 PM >> >> >> Dan, >> Although we do seem to be the minority, you are not alone, I'm also 34. >> I too was an airport kid. I would do just about anything to just be >> close to airplanes. I rode my bike many many miles! I truly feel it >> came from my dad taking me to the local airport for my first airplane >> ride at the age of 7. An experience that is still very vivid in my >> mind. I also clearly remember the pilot, Mr. Galen Elser, explaining to >> me his homebuilt airplane experiences. These were Pietenpols he built >> in the 30s. That stuck with me like nothing else. Enough for me to >> work through High School to pay for flying lessons and finally at the >> age of 20 I started building my plane. Although college, moving, >> marriage, and starting a family have a way of creating new priorities >> the Piet always remained a backburner goal. So whether through a Young >> Eagles program or not kids are extremely impressionable and anything >> positive, like flying and aiplanes, really sticks with them. Even when >> they so! >> metimes give you that 'what in the world are you talking about' stare! >> Don E. >> NX899DE >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51203#51203 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net>
Date: Jul 31, 2006
Subject: Re: Double quarter plus
AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhSSsssssooooooooo....you been there Joe? All I can say is...if you were there that soon after the "Fallout"...SALUTE!...and I'm glad you're still with us today. Dave....Down in Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Double quarter plus In Japan of course, Sep 4, 45 to July 3, 46 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net>
Date: Jul 31, 2006
Subject: Re: Matronics Email List Web Server Upgrade Tonight...
I dont know what all this means Matt...but I will say this....THANK YOU FOR YOUR EFFORTS!!!...and a check is in the mail! Dave...Down in Florida ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 8:12 PM > > Dear Listers, > > This evening I will be upgrading the Matronics Web Server hardware to a > new Quad-processor 2.8Ghz Xeon system (yes, 4-physical CPUs!) with an > Ultra 320 SCSI Raid 5 disk system and 5GB of DDR2 RAM. > > As with the older system, the new system will be running the latest > version of Redhat Linux. Most of the software configuration work is > already done for the migration, but I still have to sync all of the > archive and forum data from the old system to the new system. I am > anticipating about 2 to 3 hours of downtime for me to fully make the > transition, although it could be considerable less if everything goes > according to plan. > > The Matronics Webserver will be *UNavailable* from the Internet during the > work, and you will receive a time-out if you try to connect during the > upgrade. > > Email List Distribution will be *available* during the upgrade of the Web > Server, and List message distribution will function as normal. > > This represents a significant performance upgrade for the Matronics Web > Server and you should notice nicely improved searching and surfing > performance following the upgrade! > > > Best regards, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <grhans@cable-lynx.net>
Date: Jul 31, 2006
Subject: Re: flew C-IOVC
Harvey, Well, this is good news! Generally, doing short "crow hops" is more difficult than actually going for a circuit, but it is definitely the right way to become acquainted with your new plane. Do enough of them to feel really comfortable with the handling qualities, etc. before you go for a flight---but always be prepared to keep on going if you haven't enough runway left to stop safely. And if you do find yourself fully airborne and committed to fly, just go for a nice flight and enjoy yourself. A little bit of power on final will flatten the approach angle and reducing it gradually during the "hold-off" phase will make the initial landings much easier to accomplish. (Power-off approaches with consistently-good landings require complete familiarity with a draggy machine like the Pietenpol.) If you haven't been flying for some time, try to get some practice in the rear seat of a Cub or Champ. This will prepare you rather well for flying a Pietenpol. And remember the three most useless things in aviation: 1. The altitude above you. 2. The runway behind you. 3. The fuel you didn't put in the tank(s). Good luck! Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: tell us about C-IOVC
Way to go, Harvey! It's a great feeling, isn't it? Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:24 PM She was started in 1977(G1298) by George Uranick of Perth Ontario and Bob Graham of Manotick.She originally had the letters C-GOVC since it started out life as a homebuilt and I was the one who had it reregistered as an ultralight.She had all her inspections except for the final one and with the help of two AME's I bought the plane from Bob Graham in late 2005 and continued the work to completion and it has had better than a final inspection since these guys took on the final itself and made sure she was ready to fly.They would not let me make a move until I had completed their specs which I did gladly.She has been built with Grega mods,a Franklin 80 hp engine AC 176 series,a Cessna carb heat muff,battery start,flop door entrance,fire extinguisher,Tennessee prop 72X42 recommended by the group on this web,and with the help of the guys at our local RAA and the two AME's she is now ready for flight which I did today for the first time.It was her first time and my first time as well.I have flown champs ,N3 Pup and Lazairs but this one is real special.She handles very much like the Champ.I will not be carrying a passenger since I am a basic ultralight pilot and there is a battery in the front seat anyway.There will be a few more adds to be put on such as a system for carrying a tent and sleeping bag but other than that she is finished. _____ [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: July 31, 2006 5:54 PM Please tell me/us about this aircraft and it's story. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: tell us about C-IOVC
It sure iss Jack;my next big step is to do the circuit.Really looking forward to that. ________________________________ [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: August 1, 2006 7:22 AM Way to go, Harvey! It's a great feeling, isn't it? Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 9:24 PM She was started in 1977(G1298) by George Uranick of Perth Ontario and Bob Graham of Manotick.She originally had the letters C-GOVC since it started out life as a homebuilt and I was the one who had it reregistered as an ultralight.She had all her inspections except for the final one and with the help of two AME's I bought the plane from Bob Graham in late 2005 and continued the work to completion and it has had better than a final inspection since these guys took on the final itself and made sure she was ready to fly.They would not let me make a move until I had completed their specs which I did gladly.She has been built with Grega mods,a Franklin 80 hp engine AC 176 series,a Cessna carb heat muff,battery start,flop door entrance,fire extinguisher,Tennessee prop 72X42 recommended by the group on this web,and with the help of the guys at our local RAA and the two AME's she is now ready for flight which I did today for the first time.It was her first time and my first time as well.I have flown champs ,N3 Pup and Lazairs but this one is real special.She handles very much like the Champ.I will not be carrying a passenger since I am a basic ultralight pilot and there is a battery in the front seat anyway.There will be a few more adds to be put on such as a system for carrying a tent and sleeping bag but other than that she is finished. ________________________________ [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: July 31, 2006 5:54 PM Please tell me/us about this aircraft and it's story. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: flew C-IOVC
Thankyou very much for that advice Graham I'll use that. ________________________________ [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Sent: July 31, 2006 10:34 PM Harvey, Well, this is good news! Generally, doing short "crow hops" is more difficult than actually going for a circuit, but it is definitely the right way to become acquainted with your new plane. Do enough of them to feel really comfortable with the handling qualities, etc. before you go for a flight---but always be prepared to keep on going if you haven't enough runway left to stop safely. And if you do find yourself fully airborne and committed to fly, just go for a nice flight and enjoy yourself. A little bit of power on final will flatten the approach angle and reducing it gradually during the "hold-off" phase will make the initial landings much easier to accomplish. (Power-off approaches with consistently-good landings require complete familiarity with a draggy machine like the Pietenpol.) If you haven't been flying for some time, try to get some practice in the rear seat of a Cub or Champ. This will prepare you rather well for flying a Pietenpol. And remember the three most useless things in aviation: 1. The altitude above you. 2. The runway behind you. 3. The fuel you didn't put in the tank(s). Good luck! Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: Double quarter plus
There was a terrible accident at Oshgosh last weekend our President of our local RAA Bill Reed and the President of the local EAA Gary Palmer were in an altercation with a war bird while taxiing and the Eaa pres Gary Palmer was killed.Be very careful out there guys and gals ,anything can and will happen! ________________________________ [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Reid Sent: July 31, 2006 10:12 PM AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhSSsssssooooooooo....you been there Joe? All I can say is...if you were there that soon after the "Fallout"...SALUTE!...and I'm glad you're still with us today. Dave....Down in Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Double quarter plus In Japan of course, Sep 4, 45 to July 3, 46 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: An Update on the Ex SORRY I HAD
TO IT'S TOO DAM FUNNY !!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh that's nasty! -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of erik finster Sent: July 31, 2006 9:51 PM IT'S TOO DAM FUNNY !!! >From: ERIK BILLING <aeronca7acman(at)yahoo.ca> >To: Erik Scott Billing >Subject: Fwd: FW: An Update on the Ex >Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:31:38 -0400 (EDT) > > >Note: forwarded message attached. > >--------------------------------- >The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new Yahoo! >Mail. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: "motorcycles in the barn"
Seeing as how the subject of "motorcycles" has come up..wheels and all....this Pieter is seeking to locate and purchase a moped type, i.e. (Honda Passport C70 Deluxe would be perfect). Looking for a machine to get me to the airport. If anyone knows of one for sale please let me know how I can get in touch. Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Dick Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> >Sent: Jul 31, 2006 4:21 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: double nickel > >Arden >There is a wide variety of opinions on motorcycle wheels. Generally between 19" & 21". I had my Piet at Brodhead, I like my 21" Harley wheels and rotors. The Go Kart calipers are coming off this winter and getting replaced with Harley also. >Some go with Yahama or Honda rims and have Buchanans in Calif. lace the spokes. They willl spread the hubs to 6" to spread the load. I'll let others weigh in on their wheels. >Mine weigh in at about 60 lb. including wheel, tires, brakes and axle. >Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Arden Adamson > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 11:18 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: double nickel > > > Hey guys, > > > > One of you said it best. Age is in the mind. I tell people I'm a 39 year old man trapped in a 64 year old body. As long as there is the will (& physical health permits) one can build a plane and fly. > > > > This week I put the tail feather hinges on and clamped it all to the Piet fuselage tail. Wow! What inspiration that is to progress. I've been flying for 30 years but creating a plane with one's own two hands is a blast. > > > > For all you guys that brought your Piets to Brodhead-----thanks much. I flew my Skyhawk there Saturday to spend the day and enjoyed the fly-in immensely. Flew home that evening going around a couple rain storms. Got many questions answered there and met new friends. > > > > Here's another question: I'm building the Jenny style landing gear. If I use motorcycle wheels, which brand/size is most recommended for use with disc brakes? Any help would be appreciated. > > > > Arden Adamson > > Waupaca, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: Brodhead Pictures
I have posted my Brodhead pictures on my website; http://www.builddiary.net/logs/21 I missed a couple airplanes, but I did take a 360 degree Panorama on Friday which is pretty cool. Someone asked for my pictures of the world's largest Sitka Spruce which is here in Oregon, I will have those up soon as well. Oh, and strangely enough, I am 34 as well. Apparently most Piet Builders are either 55, or 34. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures
In a message dated 8/1/2006 12:04:03 PM Central Standard Time, dav3xor(at)gmail.com writes: I have posted my Brodhead pictures on my website; http://www.builddiary.net/logs/21 Dave, Great report on Brodhead Pictures, especially the panorama view. We need a panorama view each year, when the infield is full of Pietenpols !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures
That panorama is incredible! Too cool...... ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pictures In a message dated 8/1/2006 12:04:03 PM Central Standard Time, dav3xor(at)gmail.com writes: I have posted my Brodhead pictures on my website; http://www.builddiary.net/logs/21 Dave, Great report on Brodhead Pictures, especially the panorama view. We need a panorama view each year, when the infield is full of Pietenpols !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Nadeau <nadeau(at)caldsl.com>
Date: Aug 01, 2006
Subject: Re: FW: Fwd: FW: An Update on the Ex SORRY I HAD
TO IT'S TOO DAM FUNNY !!! You know, thats nothing. You should see what my Mother-In-Law rides around in. On Aug 1, 2006, at 5:24 AM|Aug 1, 2006, wrote: > > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh that's nasty! > > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of erik > finster > Sent: July 31, 2006 9:51 PM > IT'S TOO DAM FUNNY !!! > > >> From: ERIK BILLING <aeronca7acman(at)yahoo.ca> >> To: Erik Scott Billing >> Subject: Fwd: FW: An Update on the Ex >> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:31:38 -0400 (EDT) >> >> >> >> Note: forwarded message attached. >> >> --------------------------------- >> The best gets better. See why everyone is raving about the All-new > Yahoo! >> Mail. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Application for N number..
Pieters. What is the easiest way to apply for your N number. I would like to pay extra for a special number and I think there is a way to check on the Internet if it is available. Thanks, Ken Conrad in still hot Iowa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Application for N number..
Ken On-line at FAA.gov, $ 10.-- to reserve your N number, when you are ready to fly you have to register your airplane with the number. A Pietenpol can use a X in the number to replace the ugly Experimental label around the cockpit Reserve your N number without the X. In my case N 15KV was reserved and used on all FAA documents But on the tail it reads as NX 15KV Here is the link: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/n_numbers/ Hans Wizzard187(at)aol.co m Sent by: To owner-pietenpol-l pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ist-server@matron cc ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Application for 08/02/2006 05:56 N number.. AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Pieters. What is the easiest way to apply for your N number. I would like to pay extra for a special number and I think there is a way to check on the Internet if it is available. Thanks, Ken Conrad in still hot Iowa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: 'Piet for sale
New Model A powered Pietenpol Aircamper, built from Mr. Pietenpols original plans by the master craftsman Don Hicks. This beautiful bird has the "jenny" stiff leg gear and the brass radiator. Plane still needs basic time flown off. Only 3 hours TT. Mr. Hicks died suddenly and widow need to sell. Widow needs 10k however will accept any reasonable offer. Please contact Clara Hicks at Hixplace(at)aol.com or call 334-348-2422 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: R Matt Doody <rmattd123(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Aircamper GN-1 Plans
I have a complete set of GN-1 plans for sale. New, purchased in March of this year, never used. Please email offline if interested. Matt --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Aged Piet pilots
> > There is an annual fly-in breakfast every spring at our small city in > central Alberta, Canada. If the weather cooperates, well over a hundred > aircraft will come to it. It would be interesting to do a survey of the > ages > of attending pilots. This year, the average age would have been close to, > or > over, sixty from what I and others observed. Where are all the younger > people? (Probably motorcycling, or boating, or charging around on ATV's.) How about video games? Flight simulators don't require a medical and $6000 for a private license or $3000 for a sport pilot license, no preflight, maintenance, INSURANCE, hanger rental, bad weather to worry about, plus you can fly any type of airplane you want, perform any aerobatics, fly anywhere in the world, and shoot and kill people just like with War Craft or Grand Theft Auto, all with zero risk of death or injury (and you can pause and go to the bathroom or grab a beer any time you want). Now that I think about it, imagine the computer system and simulator software I could put together for what I have in my Piet so far (three 32 inch flat panel surround monitors)? Just kidding. Its an instant gratification world out there for the younger people (and a lot of the baby boomers as well), the more red tape you have to go through to do an activity the less chance people are going to have an interest in it. And I can't think of any activity or sport that requires more red tape and money to get into than aviation. Plus with the bankruptcys and major pay cuts going through the airline industry I wouldn't doubt that we will see a decreased interest among younger people into getting into aviation as a career. Rick H. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Brodhead Pictures
Nice high resolution photos Dave. Thanks for sharing them with us. As I was looking through your pictures, I saw my legs in the background of a couple of shots. Then I found myself and my teenage son in your cool panorama shot. And for the record, I fall in the middle of the popular ages, at 44. Bill C. - I have posted my Brodhead pictures on my website; ... Oh, and strangely enough, I am 34 as well. Apparently most Piet Builders are either 55, or 34. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Brodhead Pictures
I set one as my background, the close-up of the orange pet with the brass ford plate. Bob -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: August 2, 2006 11:02 AM Nice high resolution photos Dave. Thanks for sharing them with us. As I was looking through your pictures, I saw my legs in the background of a couple of shots. Then I found myself and my teenage son in your cool panorama shot. And for the record, I fall in the middle of the popular ages, at 44. Bill C. - I have posted my Brodhead pictures on my website; ... Oh, and strangely enough, I am 34 as well. Apparently most Piet Builders are either 55, or 34. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures
>In a message dated 8/1/2006 12:04:03 PM Central Standard Time, >dav3xor(at)gmail.com writes: >I have posted my Brodhead pictures on my website; > >http://www.builddiary.net/logs/21 >Dave, >Great report on Brodhead Pictures, especially the panorama view. We need a >panorama view each year, when the infield is full of Pietenpols !! > >Chuck G. >NX770CG I would like to do one every year. :) Not sure I can guarantee it (I live in Portland Oregon), but I can certainly try. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesign" <Catdesign(at)intergate.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures
Dave, do you happen to have any more pictures of Dennis Hall's Sky Scout wheels and brakes? Chris Sacramento Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=51836#51836 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures
Pieters, Here I am butting in on your conversations again. I am pleased to see some discussions begin on the subject of Piet technics. Granted, the Piet is a well designed machine and has weathered the years and hardly anyone has received harm. But can it be improved without changing it's basic designs? After completing and flying 41CC I felt that it's flying characterics could be greatly improved, especially the float after round out. Many said it was because of high drag that caused the falling brick sensation. The Cub and 7AC both have a nice float, are heavier and posses abundant drag AND with 65 HP. As I was building 311CC I strongly considered the Cub airfoil as well as the 7AC and the Clark Y. I feel now they are superior to the BHP French 10. If I were to build again it would definitely be with a different airfoil. That Piet airfoil is in my opinion the weakest link of the Piet chain design. Two-bits worth on this beautiful Southern afternoon. I'll be waiting your bombardments with my old steel helmet. CMC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: old dog new tricks
Corky-- sure is nice to hear that at least one older fella we know is open to tossing around ideas and not stuck in the concrete of 50 years go "just because we've always done it that way". I find myself having to force myself to stay open to new ideas, new technology and opinions that might not fit my way of getting something done. Lowell Frank is a pretty sharp guy and he's done just about all you can do with a Piet over the years with regard to Ford engines, souped up Fords, radical engine installations, and now airfoil trials. I too know the float you get with a Champ and that is a nice feeling---plus the 87 mph cruise speed. Even tho I do think drag is a huge factor in the non-float you get in a Piet, the wing probably has mucho to do with that as well. Keep posting, take the heat like us Yankee boys can do when we need to. After all----you've been there, done that. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Sweeney <donswen(at)optonline.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Funk Model E engine
Gentlemen, My Pietenpol is almost completed.When I finish painting the cowlings and wing, I can start putting all the pieces together. I've been working on the Piet longer than I care to admit and I hope that I can find all of the parts. I am using a Funk Model E engine. I haven't run it yet and I need some information about the engine. Jim Malley gave me a picture that he took of a Pietenpol with a Funk engine at Broadhead some time ago. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone could put me in touch with the builder or owner. I'm hoping the Funk will get me to Broadhead next year. Best regards Don Sweeney donswen(at)optonline.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Funk expert is Lowell Frank
There is the guy who knows everything to know about Funk engines----Lowell Frank from Wisconsin. He built a Funk powered Piet in the 70's or 80's that some lady now owns and she flew it into Oshkosh with our gaggle in 1999 and Lowell told me that the engine hadn't had a lick of trouble in several hundred hours of operation and he had it putting out some good ponies. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Brodhead Pictures
Durn Corky - you're gonna get the purists all activated! I think there's much that could be improved on the Pietenpol as well, but it would change its flight characteristics. It would probably be a better airplane, but one of the things that is delightful about the Piet is that it doesn't fly like a more modern airplane. The J-3 Cub was developed almost a decade after the initial Pietenpol design (and even after the so-called "Cub" gear on the Improved Pietenpol). The J-3 weighs only slightly more than a Piet (less than mine), has the same power and 30 sq. ft more wing area. It also has much less drag since most of the bracing is internal, and the control cables are too (for the most part). The Aeronca Champ is nearly 10 years more modern than the Cub (the Champ first appeared in 1945), so again it should be expected to fly more like a modern airplane, becasue it IS a more modern airplane (it is in fact just an underpowered Citabria). When I got back from my honeymoon and wanted to go flying for the first time in almost 3 weeks, I didn't pull my RV-4 out of the hangar. Instead I climbed into the Pietenpol. I flew it down to Sanford, NC where a bunch of friends were sitting around "hangar flying". One of them (who built and flies an RV-8) asked why I wasn't flying my "real" airplane. I just snorted and said "I wanted to fly something that presented some kind of challenge. Flying the RV-4 doesn't prove that I can still fly." Jack Phillips Sweating in 100 degrees in Raleigh today -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:24 PM Pieters, Here I am butting in on your conversations again. I am pleased to see some discussions begin on the subject of Piet technics. Granted, the Piet is a well designed machine and has weathered the years and hardly anyone has received harm. But can it be improved without changing it's basic designs? After completing and flying 41CC I felt that it's flying characterics could be greatly improved, especially the float after round out. Many said it was because of high drag that caused the falling brick sensation. The Cub and 7AC both have a nice float, are heavier and posses abundant drag AND with 65 HP. As I was building 311CC I strongly considered the Cub airfoil as well as the 7AC and the Clark Y. I feel now they are superior to the BHP French 10. If I were to build again it would definitely be with a different airfoil. That Piet airfoil is in my opinion the weakest link of the Piet chain design. Two-bits worth on this beautiful Southern afternoon. I'll be waiting your bombardments with my old steel helmet. CMC _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures gone to Piet "improvements"
Jack Phillips wrote: Durn Corky - you're gonna get the purists all activated! I think there's much that could be improved on the Pietenpol as well, [big snip] I decided I should improve a couple of things on my Piet. The original airfoil was a weak link, so I substituted a thicker, less cambered, airfoil. This let me put in stronger, lighter, spars and mount the aileron control cables internally. It also gave me much better flying characteristics. The wing strut cross-bracing seemed like it could easily be replaced by a V-type strut arrangement so I mounted the bottom end of the rear lift strut at the same point as the front strut with an adjusting mechanism to get the right dihedral and washout. Again, improved flying characteristics. The tail bracing bothered me so I built thicker horizontal and vertical stabilizers with strong spars, making the external bracing unnecessary. With a thicker horizontal stabilizer, I was able to mount the elevator halves on a torque tube that could be actuated by an internal pushrod, getting rid of the external elevator control cables. With the decreased drag the above modifications gave, the speed increased until the noise and buffeting of the open cockpit was unbearable, so I increased the front windscreen to full height between the fuselage and wing. With that, it was easy to add wrap-around panels to completely close off the cockpit. I could now have conversations with the front seat occupant without an intercom. The windscreen mod decreased drag even further, so the attainable speeds got up to where structural integrity was a concern. I replaced the wooden fuselage with an aluminum monocoque type; much lighter and stronger. With the windshield wrap-around, ingress and egress were a problem for both seats so I made a kind of sliding canopy. The cabane struts were in the way so I lowered the wing to eliminate them. Since the wing spars were now mounted directly to an aluminum fuselage, it became reasonable to convert the wings and tail to aluminum as well. With thicker wings, I was able to completely eliminate the lift struts, making a much slicker airplane. I'm very happy with my modified Pietenpol, but I get some comments from behind-the-times purists. Four different Pieters have said I "radically vandalized" Bernard Pietenpol's original creation. That's why I call it an RV-4. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Rudder Bar Dimensions?
Hello all, I have a question regarding the rudder bar dimensions. I realize the plans call out a 3/4" tube, however I'm wondering if that is the dimension tube that people are using, and what wall thickness? Thank you! John --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Rudder Bar Dimensions?
Yes John, I believe people use the 3/4". I'm using the 3/4" x 0.035. I see no problem in going to a larger diameter as long as it fits under the connecting rod to the front stick. Thickness is not an issue as any thickness will only reduce the inside dimension. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: John Egan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder Bar Dimensions? Hello all, I have a question regarding the rudder bar dimensions. I realize the plans call out a 3/4" tube, however I'm wondering if that is the dimension tube that people are using, and what wall thickness? Thank you! John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- rates. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: double nickel
39!!!! Hey, I'm 14! :-) Clif Make as many mistakes as you can. Learn from them. How else are you going to become a person of value? Hey guys, One of you said it best. Age is in the mind. I tell people I'm a 39 year old man trapped in a 64 year old body. As long as there is the will (& physical health permits) one can build a plane and fly. Arden Adamson Waupaca, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Hello all, From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? Thank you for your help, John --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
I used pulleys in mine Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 11:26 AM Hello all, controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? Thank you for your help, John _____ See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40762/*http:/www.yahoo.com/preview> _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
I used pulleys in mine also. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Pulleys here also. Lynn Knoll Piet/Vair Wichita ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
I'm working on mine now too. I used a pulley to run the line to the top of the bellcrank, but the line to the bottom of the bellcrank is almost straight, so I'm running that cable through a piece of copper tubing. I put an oak doubler under the rear of the rear seat support to give some strength to the hole the copper tubing will mount in. I have a tubing flare tool that I willl use to bend a nice flange on both ends of the tubing after it is in place. I got this idea from Tony Bingelis's books. I'm not finished yet so take it for what its worth..... Ben ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Pulley Jim Markle Pryor, OK 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Egan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator cable routing under the rear seat Hello all, From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? Thank you for your help, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Pulleys on 41CC. I sent a photo of the setup off-list. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
I made hard wood guides. I got the idea from an old timer at Brodhead who said he did that many many years ago on an aircamper he still flies. The wood and cable show no ware, just a polishing from the cable movement He said. I drilled the ash at a roughly at the angle needed for the cables, then made the holes better with a Dremmel. I made an access cover under this area so I can watch it closely and put on pulleys if it comes to that. Leon S.. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
NX18235 has the rudder cables running through nylon tubing from under the seat to just before the cable exits the fuselage. The tubing acts as a continuous fairlead. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Egan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator cable routing under the rear seat Hello all, From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? Thank you for your help, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
In a message dated 8/3/2006 10:30:03 AM Central Standard Time, johnegan99(at)yahoo.com writes: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? John, It seems that most folks use at least one pulley on the cable that goes up to the top of the bellcrank. However, there is absolutely NO reason that a pulley must be used there. I didn't use a pulley, and there is NO wear going on in that area, after well over 300 hrs operation. It simply rides on a piece of hardwood, however, I did tighten up one of the turnbuckles up a couple of years ago, and maybe after a few more years I may have to make another slight adjustment. Copper tubing is not a very good fairlead, because it has poor abrasion characteristics, and there is also what is called Dissimilar Metal Corrosion. Pulley's add complexity to the design, as well as the risk of a cable jumping out, and jamming the control cable. The beauty of the Pietenpol is in the simplicity of it's design. Changing even simple things like this adds an incredible amount of time, and thought that it takes you to build, and after all that extra effort, you still haven't made an improvement. Stick to the plans, and just Git 'er done !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glich7(at)juno.com" <glich7(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: aged pilots
Hey listers, I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those who lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen and th is is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol list. I have been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in general f or at least six years, soaking up all the information I can. If you doub t my research or enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified Wingnut. I th ink this is pretty good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money to work on m y private certificate which I completed March ' 06. Last November I took a Greyhound bus for 25 hours from Columbus, OH to Florida to attend WW' s Corvair College to learn in person about what I had read on his websit e. In July of this year I drove about eleven hours to go to my first Bro dhead. I also go to safety seminars in my area whenever I can. For those who attended Brodhead this year, and were observant, you would have hea rd a man introducing his son to Bill Rewey, and stating that said son wo uld soon be working on his own Pietenpol project soon (or was already wo rking, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted to show him the finished produc t. I believe the kid was 17 or 18! Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see the results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure da ys right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't worki ng. I wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or the youth internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I kno w I'm not alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking in a ll the knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the way. Just have a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this didn't co me off too strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard. Thanks, Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________

Hey listers,

I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those w ho lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen and this is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol li st. I have been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in genera l for at least six years, soaking up all the information I can. If you d oubt my research or enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified Wingnut. I think this is pretty good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money to work o n my private certificate which I completed March ' 06. Last November I t ook a Greyhound bus for 25 hours from Columbus, OH to Florida to at tend WW's Corvair College to learn in person about what I had read on hi s website. In July of this year I drove about eleven hours to go to my f irst Brodhead. I also go to safety seminars in my area whenever I can. F or those who attended Brodhead this year, and were observant, you would have heard a man introducing his son to Bill Rewey, and stating that sai d son would soon be working on his own Pietenpol project soon (or was al ready working, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted to show him the finishe d product. I believe the kid was 17 or 18!

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see the results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure days right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't wo rking. I wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or t he youth internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I know I'm not alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking i n all the knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the w ay. Just have a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this didn't come off too strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard. Thank s,

Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio



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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Brodhead Pictures
In a message dated 8/2/2006 10:46:58 AM Central Standard Time, dav3xor(at)gmail.com writes: I would like to do one every year. :) Not sure I can guarantee it (I live in Portland Oregon), but I can certainly try. Dave, Hope to meet you there next year !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: aged pilots
Hi Tim, I too, am tired of listening to the "old timers" whine about how the "good old days" are gone, and "what are we going to do?". I am 52 and have loved all-things aviation since I was 12. Good for you that you have completed your Private- Congratulations! You should be very proud of yourself. I always try to look forward instead of looking back. We all only have one life to live, and I for one do not want to waste one minute of it whining. I love every minute of working on my Piet and can't wait to fly her. After I get done I will be the one at Brodhead setting a new record for giving free rides to any and all who want them. If we all stopped complaining for a minute and actually counted all our good fortune, we would have to conclude that these ARE the "good old days". Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Beauty in Simplicity and Slow Speed
In a message dated 8/2/2006 1:26:47 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: Pieters, Here I am butting in on your conversations again. I am pleased to see some discussions begin on the subject of Piet technics. Granted, the Piet is a well designed machine and has weathered the years and hardly anyone has received harm. But can it be improved without changing it's basic designs? After completing and flying 41CC I felt that it's flying characterics could be greatly improved, especially the float after round out. Many said it was because of high drag that caused the falling brick sensation. The Cub and 7AC both have a nice float, are heavier and posses abundant drag AND with 65 HP. As I was building 311CC I strongly considered the Cub airfoil as well as the 7AC and the Clark Y. I feel now they are superior to the BHP French 10. If I were to build again it would definitely be with a different airfoil. That Piet airfoil is in my opinion the weakest link of the Piet chain design. Two-bits worth on this beautiful Southern afternoon. I'll be waiting your bombardments with my old steel helmet. CMC OK Corky, Put on that ol' steel helmet, 'cause I'm coming after ya !! he he !! If you change the airfoil of the Pietenpol, you Have changed it's basic design, because it is actually one of it's strongest links. Here's why: The airfoil is like flying with a notch of flaps, always in - high drag and lots of Lift. All this lift allows you to take off and land at very slow speeds, which explains why it has such a good safety record - injuries will more often if there is an increase if the touchdown speed has to be increased. This airfoil is also why Bernard was able to design an airplane with the power output of a Model A engine. If you float after roundout, you will certainly land longer than if you didn't float. Untill you really get used to the landing characteristics of the Piet airfoil, you should leave a little bit of power in, and land a little longer. It takes dozens of landings, but after you get used to it, pull power to idle on final approach, roundout and flair inches above the ground, and see just how short the roll out can be. Those other airfoils you mentioned are designed into those particular airframes, and are most certainly better than the Piet airfoil in that particular application. The Pietenpol Does NOT have balanced control surfaces, and if the top speed is increased with a lower drag airfoil, then you increase the risk of Control Surface Flutter. If flutter occurs, it will only take a matter of seconds before the subject control surface will have complete, and catastrophic failure. This is the reason you should NEVER take the Pietenpol past the design Vne of 90 mph. The Pietenpol airfoil has an aft C. of G. limit which is further aft on the airfoil than on almost any other airfoil, because of it's negative pitching moment, and if the airfoil is changed to something else, then you MUST use C.of G. limits according to the airfoil used - which will move the aft limit forward, and this will only aggravate the already aft C G condition that most Pietenpols have. There ya have it, Corky...my two-bit opinion :) Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: aged pilots
Hi Tim, It's good to hear from someone who has the enthusiasm and the drive to get involved in this crazy business. It's not easy but I can't think of any other field that is so much fun. You'll meet some great guys along the way. In fact you've already met one of the nicest and most knowledgeable in Mike Cuy. Best of luck and don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Tom Travis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Date: Aug 03, 2006
Subject: Re: aged pilots
Tim, Don't think you came on too strong. Just think you finally found this aviation thing, and are excited! If you're ever up in NJ, look me up, We'll go flying. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: glich7(at)juno.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: aged pilots Hey listers, I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those who lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen and this is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol list. I have been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in general for at least six years, soaking up all the information I can. If you doubt my research or enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified Wingnut. I think this is pretty good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money to work on my private certificate which I completed March ' 06. Last November I took a Greyhound bus for 25 hours from Columbus, OH to Florida to attend WW's Corvair College to learn in person about what I had read on his website. In July of this year I drove about eleven hours to go to my first Brodhead. I also go to safety seminars in my area whenever I can. For those who attended Brodhead this year, and were observant, you would have heard a man introducing his son to Bill Rewey, and stating that said son would soon be working on his own Pietenpol project soon (or was already working, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted to show him the finished product. I believe the kid was 17 or 18! Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see the results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure days right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't working. I wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or the youth internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I know I'm not alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking in all the knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the way. Just have a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this didn't come off too strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard. Thanks, Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: aged pilots
Tim We aged Piet builders were not really doing a 'woe is me' thing. It was actually the opposite. We (and you) are the lucky ones to have found our 'Eden' in homebuilding and have the opportunity to do this now. I think we are concerned about our kids and grand kids being able to have the same experience. You are correct that it can take many years (or decades) to see if the efforts of EAA Young Eagles, Sport Pilot, and other things get younger people interested in aviation. Like you I got into aviation early getting my private license about eight months after getting my drivers license. It just took me 43 more years to discover homebuilding. As I said earlier if I would have riveted together a rudder section and been able to take it home and show my friends when I was six years old as many kids at AirVenture did this year I guarantee I would have started my Piet decades ago. Keep up your enthusiasm and let us know how your project is doing, don't let the "sex, drugs, rock and roll" (and video games) deviate you from you dream. Us old Piet builders don't have to worry about that kind of stuff, just clogged arteries, heart attacks, and Alzheimer's. Rick On 8/3/06, glich7(at)juno.com wrote: > > Hey listers, > > I can't sit by any longer and listen to the "woe are we" from those who > lack optimism about the future of aviation. My name is Tim Hansen and this > is my first post. I've been a long time lurker on the pietenpol list. I have > been doing research on the pietenpol and homebuilts in general for at least > six years, soaking up all the information I can. If you doubt my research or > enthusiasm, ask Mike Cuy, I'm a certified Wingnut. I think this is pretty > good since I'm only 21. I borrowed money to work on my private certificate > which I completed March ' 06. Last November I took a Greyhound bus for 25 > hours from Columbus, OH to Florida to attend WW's Corvair College to learn > in person about what I had read on his website. In July of this year I drove > about eleven hours to go to my first Brodhead. I also go to safety seminars > in my area whenever I can. For those who attended Brodhead this year, and > were observant, you would have heard a man introducing his son to Bill > Rewey, and stating that said son would soon be working on his own Pietenpol > project soon (or was already working, I'm not sure) with Dad and wanted to > show him the finished product. I believe the kid was 17 or 18! > > Basically, what I'm trying to say is that just because you can't see the > results from programs like Young Eagles and Youth Aviation Adventure days > right smack in front of you, that doesn't mean that they aren't working. I > wish I had known about Young Eagles when it applied to me, or the youth > internships at Pioneer Field, but that hasn't stopped me and I know I'm not > alone. I have stayed quiet this long because I was taking in all the > knowledge I could from the list and builders I met along the way. Just have > a little faith and keep up the good work. Hope this didn't come off too > strong but I wanted to make the "young voice" heard. Thanks, > > Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Tim Hansen from Ohio
That was a very good post Tim and it was GREAT to see you at Brodhead. You confirmed to me that you really are a die-hard Piet nut and are not just a tire kicker. For the rest of the folks, while Tim was up in Cleveland last March, as I recall, he was finishing up his private work and battling the snowy, windy weather trying to take his checkride. During the week Tim asked if he could see my Pietenpol and we met out at the hangar. It was super cold, windy, but still light enough to open the hangar doors and look over the Piet. I could tell by talking to Tim that he knew more already, at age 21, than many others in the Piet community including some things that I wasn't even aware of. Of course I strong-armed Tim into getting one of my tapes (actually it was given to him just for battling the cold that week !) but I didn't expect to see him at Brodhead---way to go, Tim ! I recall going to Brodhead for the first time in 1998 and older guys dismissed me rapidly and didn't much acknowledge my enthusiasm for the design and almost seemed elitists and snobbish. I think that over time either I've just aged enough or that the Piet crowd has gone from a "this is the only way you can build a Pietenpol" to a more open-minded and youth-oriented group. When I say youth oriented I mean that the trend for Piet builders has shifted from 75 year olds to 55 year olds, okay ? Remember Ty.....oh gosh, what was his name ? Two or three years ago he shows up with a new 65 Cont. Piet and he's just 23 years old or something like that. Great, great story. Same as Tim Hansens is staring out---sacrifice, scrape, scrounge, more sacrifice, research, read, listen, build, go to educational seminars, workshops, vocational welding classes. All great stuff and the thing I like is that I think (I hope) we are becoming more and more welcoming of guys like Tim Hanses who might not seem like your average Piet guy but who are actually the next generation that we have the duty to pass the torch to ! There are quite a few guys on this list who don't post much and I know some of them. I got to meet one of Jim Markle's buddies two weeks ago here in Cleveland by the name of Tom Travis. Tom is building a Piet and has looked at Jim's project several times. Tom is at the other end of the aviation spectrum having done more thing in aviation than you can shake a tailfeather at but you'd never know it to meet him......down to earth, optimistic, and willing to help anyone who shows a shred of passion for flying or aviation. (I know.....he's already given me the subtle, but persuasive bug about volunteering with the CAF:)) Sorry for the long post but suck all you can information-wise from this group Tim and read the archives, ask questions, and don't let the turkeys, sour apples, or purists get you down ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
I used pulleys also, but let me tell you about a problem that I am now in the process of correcting, that others have heard me complain about. My rudder cables pass under the seat and run thru the pulleys. After that they join with the tailwheel cable with nicropress fittings. I had set the rudder 10 degrees off to the right to counter the prop force. My plane has had a tendency to suddenly veer off to the left on the takeoff run shortly after the tail came up. This has lead to a couple of aboarted takeoffs, luckily with no damage. The conclusion I have reached is that the tension on the tail wheel releases as it leaves the ground changing the rudder position causing the plane to suddenly veer off if I'm not anticipating it. I am re rigging the cables, running seperate cables from the bar. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Egan To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator cable routing under the rear seat Hello all, From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? Thank you for your help, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: M.E.R.F.I. fly-in at marion Ohio
Hello Guys, Just wondering if any of you are going to make it to the Mid-Eastern regional Fly in at Marion Ohio at the end of August. Dad and I plan to have NX92GB there if we get this engine grimlin fixed. Sorry we could not make Brodhead this year but thats life. We got the wings and the rest of the airframe all back togeather last weekend and will start on the engine this weekend. I believe merfi is the last weekend of august this year. It was moved up from the week following labor day about 2 or 3 years ago. Sincerly Shad Bell NX92GB --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Pulleys. On 8/3/06, John Egan wrote: > > Hello all, > > From my recent inquires, it's now obvious that I'm working on my > controls. Today's question is: Do people still run the elevator cables > thru the wood cross member under the rear seat, or should pulleys be located > directly behind the rear seat to guide the cables from the control sticks up > to the bell crank? If people still run the cables in that area without > pulleys, are wear surfaces or some form of guides fabricated? > > Thank you for your help, > > John > > ------------------------------ > See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40762/*http://www.yahoo.com/preview> > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
You make a good point Chuck, I have 2 pulleys under the seat for my elevator cables but the pully for cable going to the lower bellcrank fitting never turns when I move the stick and has no reason to be there. I am sure two holes in an ash block as you have done is fine. Rick On 8/3/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/3/2006 10:30:03 AM Central Standard Time, > johnegan99(at)yahoo.com writes: > > Do people still run the elevator cables thru the wood cross member under > the rear seat, or should pulleys be located directly behind the rear seat to > guide the cables from the control sticks up to the bell crank? If people > still run the cables in that area without pulleys, are wear surfaces or some > form of guides fabricated? > > John, > It seems that most folks use at least one pulley on the cable that goes up > to the top of the bellcrank. However, there is absolutely NO reason that a > pulley must be used there. I didn't use a pulley, and there is NO wear > going on in that area, after well over 300 hrs operation. It simply rides > on a piece of hardwood, however, I did tighten up one of the turnbuckles up > a couple of years ago, and maybe after a few more years I may have to make > another slight adjustment. Copper tubing is not a very good fairlead, > because it has poor abrasion characteristics, and there is also what is > called Dissimilar Metal Corrosion. Pulley's add complexity to the design, > as well as the risk of a cable jumping out, and jamming the control cable. > The beauty of the Pietenpol is in the simplicity of it's design. Changing > even simple things like this adds an incredible amount of time, and > thought that it takes you to build, and after all that extra effort, you > still haven't made an improvement. Stick to the plans, and just Git 'er > done !! > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Beauty in Simplicity and Slow Speed
Good post, Chuck Jack Still sweating in Raleigh -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:34 PM In a message dated 8/2/2006 1:26:47 PM Central Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes: Pieters, Here I am butting in on your conversations again. I am pleased to see some discussions begin on the subject of Piet technics. Granted, the Piet is a well designed machine and has weathered the years and hardly anyone has received harm. But can it be improved without changing it's basic designs? After completing and flying 41CC I felt that it's flying characterics could be greatly improved, especially the float after round out. Many said it was because of high drag that caused the falling brick sensation. The Cub and 7AC both have a nice float, are heavier and posses abundant drag AND with 65 HP. As I was building 311CC I strongly considered the Cub airfoil as well as the 7AC and the Clark Y. I feel now they are superior to the BHP French 10. If I were to build again it would definitely be with a different airfoil. That Piet airfoil is in my opinion the weakest link of the Piet chain design. Two-bits worth on this beautiful Southern afternoon. I'll be waiting your bombardments with my old steel helmet. CMC OK Corky, Put on that ol' steel helmet, 'cause I'm coming after ya !! he he !! If you change the airfoil of the Pietenpol, you Have changed it's basic design, because it is actually one of it's strongest links. Here's why: The airfoil is like flying with a notch of flaps, always in - high drag and lots of Lift. All this lift allows you to take off and land at very slow speeds, which explains why it has such a good safety record - injuries will more often if there is an increase if the touchdown speed has to be increased. This airfoil is also why Bernard was able to design an airplane with the power output of a Model A engine. If you float after roundout, you will certainly land longer than if you didn't float. Untill you really get used to the landing characteristics of the Piet airfoil, you should leave a little bit of power in, and land a little longer. It takes dozens of landings, but after you get used to it, pull power to idle on final approach, roundout and flair inches above the ground, and see just how short the roll out can be. Those other airfoils you mentioned are designed into those particular airframes, and are most certainly better than the Piet airfoil in that particular application. The Pietenpol Does NOT have balanced control surfaces, and if the top speed is increased with a lower drag airfoil, then you increase the risk of Control Surface Flutter. If flutter occurs, it will only take a matter of seconds before the subject control surface will have complete, and catastrophic failure. This is the reason you should NEVER take the Pietenpol past the design Vne of 90 mph. The Pietenpol airfoil has an aft C. of G. limit which is further aft on the airfoil than on almost any other airfoil, because of it's negative pitching moment, and if the airfoil is changed to something else, then you MUST use C.of G. limits according to the airfoil used - which will move the aft limit forward, and this will only aggravate the already aft C G condition that most Pietenpols have. There ya have it, Corky...my two-bit opinion :) Chuck G. NX770CG _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
In a message dated 8/4/2006 1:21:14 PM Central Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: You make a good point Chuck, I have 2 pulleys under the seat for my elevator cables but the pully for cable going to the lower bellcrank fitting never turns when I move the stick and has no reason to be there. I am sure two holes in an ash block as you have done is fine. Rick Rick, I looked at your picture, and didn't see any threads sticking through the lock nut. Was this a picture of the pre-fit ? At least two threads must protrude through the nut, but no more than four. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Tim Hansen from Ohio
In a message dated 8/4/2006 10:18:55 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: I got to meet one of Jim Markle's buddies two weeks ago here in Cleveland by the name of Tom Travis. Hey, I had the honor of giving Tom Travis his first Pietenpol ride, when I was at Tick Hill, during my America Tour '04. With Tom in the front pit, we flew tight formation with Terry B. at the controls of their T'craft, and got some great pictures. That stop was one of the most enjoyable stops I made !! Terry, his lovely bride, and all the gang at Tick Hill really gave me a Big ol' Texas Welcome !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: was - elevator cable routing under the rear seat - Tailwheel
Cables In a message dated 8/4/2006 10:25:36 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: My rudder cables pass under the seat and run thru the pulleys. After that they join with the tailwheel cable with nicropress fittings. I had set the rudder 10 degrees off to the right to counter the prop force. My plane has had a tendency to suddenly veer off to the left on the takeoff run shortly after t he tail came up. This has lead to a couple of aboarted takeoffs, luckily with n o damage. The conclusion I have reached is that the tension on the tail wheel releases as it leaves the ground changing the rudder position causing the pl ane to suddenly veer off if I'm not anticipating it. I am re rigging the cables , running seperate cables from the bar. Dick N. Dick, That's the way I set mine up, too. I used 1/16" cables from the tailwheel, all the way up to the rudder bar, with the rudder set to 0=BA, tailwheel set to 0=BA, and the rudder bar at neutral. It has worked very well, except that because of my 3 1/2" tailwheel, in tall grass I have to drag a brake to get it to turn around in the width of the grass runway. Sometimes I like to be stoppe d, put in about 1200 or 1300 rpm, stick well forward and stand on one brake to make the tail come off the ground, and just pivot around on one wheel, like someone picked it up and carried it around. Gotta be careful not to let the weight of the tail come back down on the tailwheel while still going through the sideways motion. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Date: Aug 04, 2006
Subject: Re: was - elevator cable routing under the rear seat -
Tailwheel Cables ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: was - elevator cable routing under the rear seat - Tailwheel Cables In a message dated 8/4/2006 10:25:36 AM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: Chuck That is most impressive to watch. I have a friend who can do that type of manuver. He will also hold brakes, apply power, bring up tail and wag the tail up and down. I'm just not that good to try that. Dick Sometimes I like to be stopped, put in about 1200 or 1300 rpm, stick well forward and stand on one brake to make the tail come off the ground, and just pivot around on one wheel, like someone picked it up and carried it around. Gotta be careful not to let the weight of the tail come back down on the tailwheel while still going through the sideways motion. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2006
Subject: Workin' the Tail
In a message dated 8/4/2006 11:06:22 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: Chuck That is most impressive to watch. I have a friend who can do that type of manuver. He will also hold brakes, apply power, bring up tail and wag the tail up and down. I'm just not that good to try that. Dick Sometimes I like to be stopped, put in about 1200 or 1300 rpm, stick well forward and stand on one brake to make the tail come off the ground, and just pivot around on one wheel, like someone picked it up and carried it around. Gotta be careful not to let the weight of the tail come back down on the tailwheel while still going through the sideways motion. Chuck G. NX770CG Something to keep in mind, is what the prop wash is doing. When keeping 'er straight, the tail will be absorbed in the prop wash at a constant rate and is more controllable. However, when you do a turn around, and swing the tail around at a moderate rate, a portion of the tail swings out of the prop wash and looses the lift from the forward stick, which means the tail will come back down unless you add more forward stick - but then when you stop the tail swing, the entire tail will be once again absorbed in the prop wash, and you have to let off the forward stick or the tail will go too high...and it might cost you a prop !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Date: Aug 05, 2006
Subject: Texans and TACOS
Chuck-- of this whole Piet community, some of the nicest guys come from the Lone Star State of Texas. Michael Cuy Honorary Member of the TACO Association (Texas Air Camper Organization, El Presidente Captain Sterling Brooks) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2006
Subject: Piet builders and AC list
Hi All, Now in a career transition from self employed and gainfully employed, with a good company. I have 31 locations scattered around the US to visit from time to time. The after work hours are pretty much open times form me exclusive of the obligatory business dinner and entertainment component. During those travels I would like to combine my love of flying with my interest in the Piet experience to visit some of the builders in process and some of the flying Piets. I am hoping to get some great pics, better info that I can apply to the construction on my own Piet. I got the bug, the plans and the desire, all I need now is the ambition, the ideas and the skill to build one. Being somewhat larger in size than Bernard I really need to see the fus modifications to widen and elongate mine. I am looking for all the help and assistance available form the experts. I plan to purchase the Tony books also but thought I would couple the collective experience and ac views and pics with the book. I really want to build a great Piet, one that will accommodate my desire to return to the golden age of Aviation. I look forward to your information of list or what ever you would be comfortable in sharing. Away from home, there is nothing better than an evening at the hangar. Regards, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Piet builders and AC list
John, good luck with the project. If you haven't gotten them yet, Chuck Gantzer has a couple DVD's of his Pietenpol available, and another fellow who's name escapes me has at least one available too. If those videos don't get you revved up...nothing will. I'm currently building a Mustang II, and can't wait to get her flying so I can start on a Pietenpol. On a side note, if you wanted to buy a Pietenpol, there was a note on the forum a few days ago about a Pietenpol that only has 3 hours TT, and is part of an estate being sold. Asking price was around $10,000. If memory serves it has a Model A engine. Good luck with the job, and your Pietenpol! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Piet builders and AC list
Hello John If one of your business destinations is near Denver drop me a line and stop in for a beer and a look at my project. I am in Castle Rock and little South of Denver. And don't worry about being larger than Mr. Pietenpol we have a lot of super-sized builders out there. Many of us have widened the fuselage and leaned our pilot seats back a bit to make things more comfortable (like me). Order a plan set and one or both of Mike and Chucks Piet VCR tapes/DVDs and you can really start dreaming about it. Rick H On 8/5/06, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote: > > Hi All, > > Now in a career transition from self employed and gainfully employed, with > a good company. I have 31 locations scattered around the US to visit from > time to time. The after work hours are pretty much open times form me > exclusive of the obligatory business dinner and entertainment component. > During those travels I would like to combine my love of flying with my > interest in the Piet experience to visit some of the builders in process and > some of the flying Piets. I am hoping to get some great pics, better info > that I can apply to the construction on my own Piet. > > I got the bug, the plans and the desire, all I need now is the ambition, > the ideas and the skill to build one. Being somewhat larger in size than > Bernard I really need to see the fus modifications to widen and elongate > mine. I am looking for all the help and assistance available form the > experts. I plan to purchase the Tony books also but thought I would couple > the collective experience and ac views and pics with the book. > > I really want to build a great Piet, one that will accommodate my desire > to return to the golden age of Aviation. I look forward to your information > of list or what ever you would be comfortable in sharing. Away from home, > there is nothing better than an evening at the hangar. > > Regards, > > John > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 05, 2006
Subject: Re: elevator cable routing under the rear seat
Yes its just pre-fit, I haven't even glued the side ply and firewall on yet. But thank you for vigilance, I welcome your inputs any time. Rick On 8/4/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/4/2006 1:21:14 PM Central Standard Time, > at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: > > You make a good point Chuck, I have 2 pulleys under the seat for my > elevator cables but the pully for cable going to the lower bellcrank fitting > never turns when I move the stick and has no reason to be there. I am sure > two holes in an ash block as you have done is fine. > > Rick > > Rick, > I looked at your picture, and didn't see any threads sticking through the > lock nut. Was this a picture of the pre-fit ? At least two threads must > protrude through the nut, but no more than four. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Photos
A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did something wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it should be no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down the runway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love that Model A engine! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Photos
In a message dated 8/6/2006 10:53:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, TBYH(at)aol.com writes: Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did something wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it should be no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down the runway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love that Model A engine! I have been giving the powerplant a lot of thought as I prepare to build and was concerned about the weight issue. Actually I have 2 Model engine blocks and a ford 2.2 OHC(LIMA) engine that's brand new from during the Pinto years. It would be nice to use either powerplant format but concerned about the weight Vs hp ration in hauling my big self above the trees on a hot day. Interesting to learn that the Model A engine had enough go to get the pilot and a 250 lb passenger into the air with no trouble on a 90 degree day. Looks like more consideration is necessary in utilizing the what I have available, as in the true to form and design considerations of Bernard! John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Photos
Hi Fred, I made a point of looking at the size of the control cables on the "Last Original" Piet that Bernard built. He used 1/8" inside the cockpit for the elevators, but behind the bellcrank he went with 3/32" He also used only 1/16" for tail bracing. I think a lot of guys go overkill and use 1/8" on everything. I have heard Bill Rewey say to use 3/32" on the tail bracing because if it corrodes you may not see it. I think if you go with stainless cable you would not have to worry about that. Besides there is an automatic fail-safe in that area because you have two brace wires on each side. The plans call for 3/32" for the ailerons. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Photos
Hi Fred, NX18235 uses dash 16 turnbuckles (or equivalent) and 3/32 cable for all control cables and empennage bracing. Landing gear uses dash 22 turnbuckles and 1/8 cable. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did something wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it should be no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down the runway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love that Model A engine! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Photos
For the control cables the plans call for 3/32" wire from the bell crank to the tail, 7x19 3/32" = 1,000# galvanized or 920# stainless an AN130-16 (1,600#) would be fine here. Some people do not like the small size of the 3/32" so they substitute 1/8" wire, 7/19 1/8"= 2000# Galv or 1760#. You could use an AN 130-16 and get 1,600# or if you step up to the AN130-22 you get 2,200#. Both exceed the design strength, you can decide how much you want to exceed it by. The two cables from the stick to the bell crank are called out as 1/8" flexible, so obviously an AN130-22 should be used here as you would be giving away 400# of strength using the AN130-16. Tail brace wire is 14 gage on the plans. According to my book "Aircraft Maintenance" by Brimm and Boggess published in 1940, Tinned Aircraft Wire 14 gage has a breaking strength of 1,250#. Unfortunately, this falls between the 3/32 and 1/8 cable. I believe most people go with the 3/32 with AN130-16. It's what I will use. The Jenny gear calls for 1/8" cable so use an AN130-22 which exceeds the strength of the wire, an AN130-16 would be too much of a loss in strength. I know the list archives have a lot of discussion on this subject. Try doing a search and you can read what others have done. The photo share can take several days to post as Matt does it by hand when he gets time. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ----- Original Message ----- From: TBYH(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did something wrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it should be no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down the runway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love that Model A engine! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Ohio Pietenpols
I was just reading Tim Hansens post. It got me to realizing that there are quite a few Pietenpol owners in Ohio. If you've done some research Tim you probably know this already. There's Mike near Cleveland, Will Graff in Wadsworth, Frank Pavliga near Alliance, Gary and Shad Bell near Columbus, Virgil Phillips near Mansfield, and I'm on the eastern side south of Youngstown. These are just some of the completed ones, I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there are several under construction. Josh Bixler is another 20-something builder near Alliance. I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of Pietenpol activity in Ohio. It would be really cool if we could try to organize something to get at least a few of them together somewhere. I know when I was building it helped so much to see one in completed form. Anyway if there is anyone that is going to be in the northeastern Ohio you would be very welcome to stop by and take a look and talk Piets. Just drop me a line. Don E. NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52772#52772 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Photos
Fred, Regarding cable size, over the past few days, I have been searching the archives and builder's web sites to answer the same question. After looking at Chuck Gantzer's web site, I then e-mailed him to get more of his thoughts. I'll attach Chuck's comments below that he shared with me yesterday and he also commented to me to post the question again as you just did. From Chuck: John, I used 1/8" cable for the rudder control, but I just looked at the plans, and it calls out for 3/32" cable, but I think almost everyone uses 1/8" for the rudder. Also use 1/8" for pitch control from the stick to the bellcrank, and use 3/32" cable from the bellcrank to the Flippers (elevators). In the book Stick and Rudder, Wolfgang Langewiesche calls them the 'Flippers'. He goes on with a very good explanation why. I would strongly suggest you read this book at least Three times !! In the AC 43.13 (another Must Have publication) it calls out for a cable deflection of more than 7, there should be a pulley in place, as opposed to a fairlead. Therefore, by today's standards, a pulley would be required on the cable that goes to the top of the bellcrank, like you suggested you were going to do. However, because of the design of the Pietenpol, and the tension of those cables, the pulley is not required there. On my plane the aileron cables are 3/32", the drag / anti-drag cables in the wing are 3/32", the lift strut cables are 3/32", the cabane strut cables are 3/32", the flying wires on the tail are 1/16", and the tailwheel cable is 1/16" which goes all the way up to the rudder bar. I used nico-press fittings for everything on the cables, except the flying wires on the tail, which are swaged fittings. The control surface cables are NOT tight...you simply remove all the slack, and do not tighten up the cable - just remove all the slack. On the fixed cables in the wing, struts, cabane, and tail, you DO tension them up a little bit, till they Twang - no call out on tension, but they are tight. The entire cable system on my plane has been trouble free, however, there is times when some adjustments must be made. Wood changes dimensions slightly with temp and humidity, and this makes it necessary to make an adjustment here and there, every so often. A thought just occurred to me. If you like, you should ask me these questions on the Pietenpol Discussion group, so anyone else contemplating the same things you are, could benefit from my explanation. Hope this helps. Have fun building !! It's a Great hobby !! Chuck G. NX770CG I'll offer this infomation to the group so they don't have to look at the prints: According to the prints (2-26-34) of the control system, 3/32" cable is called out for the rudder cables (top view of fuselage detail), 1/8" cable is called out for the cable between the control stick and bell crank (side view of fuselage detail), 3/32" cable for the aileron cables (cross section view of the fuselage and wing detail). I don't see a call out for the cables running from the bell crank to the tail surfaces, maybe it's on a diiferent page? I'm wondering if 3/32" cable is a good choice for the control stick cables? Would the control sticks and other parts fail before the 3/32" cable fails? Thanks all. TBYH(at)aol.com wrote: A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and the landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? ! Fred B. La Crosse, WI --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: A65 spark plugs
Howdy, Pieters- I figure as long as the cowlings are off the engine, I should pull the plugs, clean and gap them. Just never done it with aircraft plugs before. Our EAA Chapter has plug cleaning and gapping tools so no problems there, but I'm trying to debunk the lore about keeping each plug in the same position when reinstalling, or else rotating them. I have John Schwaner's Sac Sky Ranch book and it talks about rotating the plugs on 4-cyl. engines, but then seems to indicate that it should not be done on 4-cyl. engines where one mag fires all the top plugs and the other fires all the bottom ones. If I need to keep track of the plugs I will, but I figured if anybody would know about this, you Pieters would. Any comments on spark plugs? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2006
Subject: Re: A65 spark plugs
In a message dated 8/6/2006 2:04:51 PM Central Standard Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: I have John Schwaner's Sac Sky Ranch book and it talks about rotating the plugs on 4-cyl. engines, but then seems to indicate that it should not be done on 4-cyl. engines where one mag fires all the top plugs and the other fires all the bottom ones. If I need to keep track of the plugs I will, but I figured if anybody would know about this, you Pieters would. Any comments on spark plugs? Oscar Zuniga Oscar, Yes, the plugs should be rotated, but I don't recall the document that calls out the rotation. I think you rotate each top plug over to the next cylinder on the bottom, and so fourth for the bottom plugs. This way the plug gets a different cylinder, and a different mag. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented...
Dear Listers, Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially set the limit to 2MB and we'll see how everyone likes that. If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and how large their message was. Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start... Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio Pietenpols
Hello, Just wondering how many, if any piets plan on going to the M.E.R.F.I. fly-in at Marion Ohio this year. I know Mike said he would not be able to make it. I believe it is on the week end of august 26, and 27. Marion is a nice "central" location for all in Ohio, and weather pending, would make a nice cross country. I plan on flying NX92GB to marion if we get our carberator parts in time. Hope to see some Piets at marion since I didn't get all the way to brodhead this year. sincerly Shad Don Emch wrote: I was just reading Tim Hansens post. It got me to realizing that there are quite a few Pietenpol owners in Ohio. If you've done some research Tim you probably know this already. There's Mike near Cleveland, Will Graff in Wadsworth, Frank Pavliga near Alliance, Gary and Shad Bell near Columbus, Virgil Phillips near Mansfield, and I'm on the eastern side south of Youngstown. These are just some of the completed ones, I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there are several under construction. Josh Bixler is another 20-something builder near Alliance. I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of Pietenpol activity in Ohio. It would be really cool if we could try to organize something to get at least a few of them together somewhere. I know when I was building it helped so much to see one in completed form. Anyway if there is anyone that is going to be in the northeastern Ohio you would be very welcome to stop by and take a look and talk Piets. Just drop me a line. Don E. NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52772#52772 --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: A65 spark plugs
Oscar, Assuming you have a non certifiet 65, do what my Mentor suggested. Get standard auto plugs at a fraction of the price. They are 18mm. thread. For my Eisemann mags, they're set at .018/.019". They never burped on me. go here http://www.magnetoparts.com/index.html walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 spark plugs > > > Howdy, Pieters- > > I figure as long as the cowlings are off the engine, I should pull the > plugs, clean and gap them. Just never done it with aircraft plugs before. > Our EAA Chapter has plug cleaning and gapping tools so no problems there, > but I'm trying to debunk the lore about keeping each plug in the same > position when reinstalling, or else rotating them. > > I have John Schwaner's Sac Sky Ranch book and it talks about rotating the > plugs on 4-cyl. engines, but then seems to indicate that it should not be > done on 4-cyl. engines where one mag fires all the top plugs and the other > fires all the bottom ones. If I need to keep track of the plugs I will, > but I figured if anybody would know about this, you Pieters would. > > Any comments on spark plugs? > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented...
Date: Aug 06, 2006
I dunno, Matt, I would rather see a minimum size limit . . I am sick and tired of the "git r done" or "attaboy" or or "that's what she said" responses, no matter how many times you send out the usage rules reminders. Think about it, way too many on here are wasting everyone's time with meaningless short responsesas well. . . Gene Rambo ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Dralle<mailto:dralle(at)matronics.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... > Dear Listers, Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially set the limit to 2MB and we'll see how everyone likes that. If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and how large their message was. Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start... Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ========================= ========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ========================= ========== ========================= ========== http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ========================= ========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ken Perkins contact info
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Morning all. Could someone supply me with Ken's contact info? Thanks, Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Subject: Re: Ken Perkins contact info
Hi Jack, Ken's new email is _Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net_ (mailto:Kenandvernaperkins(at)sbcglobal.net) . I know this is good because I just got something from him. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A65 spark plugs
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Walt writes- >Assuming you have a non certified 65 Yes, I believe I do have a non-certified engine. >Get standard auto plugs at a fraction of the price. I suppose then I'd have to get adapters for the harness leads? There would have to be something to adapt the screw-on end to the auto spark plug. >go here
http://www.magnetoparts.com/index.html Lots of stuff there, Walt. Where exactly would I look for what you're indicating? Thanks for your patience and help. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: DVD Of Piet's
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Hello All! Can someone please e-mail me an address where I can order a DVD of Pietenpol Flying or building? I am currently building but would like more information. Thanks in Advance! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Pietenpols Hello, Just wondering how many, if any piets plan on going to the M.E.R.F.I. fly-in at Marion Ohio this year. I know Mike said he would not be able to make it. I believe it is on the week end of august 26, and 27. Marion is a nice "central" location for all in Ohio, and weather pending, would make a nice cross country. I plan on flying NX92GB to marion if we get our carberator parts in time. Hope to see some Piets at marion since I didn't get all the way to brodhead this year. sincerly Shad Don Emch wrote: I was just reading Tim Hansens post. It got me to realizing that there are quite a few Pietenpol owners in Ohio. If you've done some research Tim you probably know this already. There's Mike near Cleveland, Will Graff in Wadsworth, Frank Pavliga near Alliance, Gary and Shad Bell near Columbus, Virgil Phillips near Mansfield, and I'm on the eastern side south of Youngstown. These are just some of the completed ones, I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there are several under construction. Josh Bixler is another 20-something builder near Alliance. I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of Pietenpol activity in Ohio. It would be really cool if we could try to organize something to get at least a few of them together somewhere. I know when I was building it helped so much to see one in completed form. Anyway if there is anyone that is going to be in the northeastern Ohio you would be very welcome to stop by and take a look and talk Piets. Just drop me a line. Don E. NX899DE Read this topic online ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: DVD Of Piet's
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Try Chuck Gantzer at Rcaprd(at)aol.com and or Mike Cuy at Michael.D.Cuy(at)lerc.nasa.gov both have made excellent cds and or tapes >From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: DVD Of Piet's >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:43:46 -0700 > >Hello All! > >Can someone please e-mail me an address where I can order a DVD of >Pietenpol >Flying or building? I am currently building but would like more >information. > >Thanks in Advance! > >Dave > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of shad bell >Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 5:43 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Pietenpols > >Hello, Just wondering how many, if any piets plan on going to the >M.E.R.F.I. >fly-in at Marion Ohio this year. I know Mike said he would not be able to >make it. I believe it is on the week end of august 26, and 27. Marion is >a >nice "central" location for all in Ohio, and weather pending, would make a >nice cross country. I plan on flying NX92GB to marion if we get our >carberator parts in time. Hope to see some Piets at marion since I didn't >get all the way to brodhead this year. >sincerly >Shad > >Don Emch wrote: > >I was just reading Tim Hansens post. It got me to realizing that there are >quite a few Pietenpol owners in Ohio. If you've done some research Tim you >probably know this already. There's Mike near Cleveland, Will Graff in >Wadsworth, Frank Pavliga near Alliance, Gary and Shad Bell near Columbus, >Virgil Phillips near Mansfield, and I'm on the eastern side south of >Youngstown. These are just some of the completed ones, I'm sure there's >more. I'm sure there are several under construction. Josh Bixler is another >20-something builder near Alliance. I guess what I'm saying is there is a >lot of Pietenpol activity in Ohio. It would be really cool if we could try >to organize something to get at least a few of them together somewhere. I >know when I was building it helped so much to see one in completed form. >Anyway if there is anyone that is going to be in the northeastern Ohio you >would be very welcome to stop by and take a look and talk Piets. Just drop >me a line. >Don E. >NX899DE > > >Read this topic online ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Piet tape
Dave-- Chuck Gantzer has some DVD productions available and I have a VHS (no DVD version available) tape here: http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html Mike Cuy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glich7(at)juno.com" <glich7(at)juno.com>
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Subject: thanks
Hey guys, I just wanted to thank all those who replied to my post (Mike, Rick, Dan , Don, Tom, Walt, Graham, Max, and anyone I forgot...). I appreciate all the kind words and I know there are many others who are optimistic like me. I will continue to lurk, posting when appropriate, and learning wha t I don't know yet. Thanks for vouching for me Mike, I knew I could coun t on ya. And if I'm ever in NJ I'll fly with you Walt. Blue Skies, Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio ________________________________________________________________________

Hey guys,

I just wanted to thank all those who replied to my post (Mike, Rick, Dan, Don, Tom, Walt, Graham, Max, and anyone I forgot...). I apprec iate all the kind words and I know there are many others who a re optimistic like me. I will continue to lurk, posting when a ppropriate, and learning what I don't know yet. Thanks for vou ching for me Mike, I knew I could count on ya. And if I'm ever in NJ I'l l fly with you Walt. Blue Skies,

Tim Hansen in Orient, Ohio      &n bsp;  

 



______________________ __________________________________________________
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol?
Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on these, I hadn't seen it discussed here before. An Italian company (Aerolab) apparently intends to manufacture a light sport aircraft with a fuselage that mimics a Pietenpol. The planes will be powered by a Rotec Radial engine, and they have low-wing, biplane, and parasol versions in the works, although it appears that they have only built a low-wing. Supposed to be in the $70k price range, available in 2007, and kits will be available. The Parasol does look very similar to the Pietenpol. Pictures & information: http://www.aerolab.it/images/AEREO-9-2-HI.jpg http://www.aerolab.it/images/_AEREO-7-3.jpg http://www.aerolab.it/pages/pro_eng.htm http://www.aerolab.it/pages/lo_gallery.htm# I think they may have been at OshKosh and Sun & Fun? I know its not a Pietenpol, but I like to see anyone manufacturing aircraft like this. The $70k price tag (if they can meet that) is much, much lower than any other LSA I'm aware of, and might put some people in the sky who can't or wouldn't build their own plane, but can't put down six figures for a new plane. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: Jim Carriere <jimcarriere(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity
Hello all, First I should briefly introduce myself. I am a Kitfox builder (half done 90% remaining). I also enjoy following this list for the stories about plans building, occasional scratch building, experimenting, and stick-and-rudder flying. I'm 32 which makes me a "youngun" in grassroots aviation, another way of saying I have plenty of fun to look forward to. There is some really great material online, on this list and elsewhere, about fabric covering and latex paint. There is solid technical data, hands-on experience, paint selection, but not much about how it holds up beyond, say, about 5 years, particularly outdoors. My main question is whether anybody's latex painted airplane been parked in the sun for months or years? Where I live, hangar space is an issue (maybe even for folding wings), frequent trailering will not be a possibility for me, but tie-down space is cheap and abundant. By the way, it rains almost daily in the summertime although the winters are mild (northwest Florida). My other question is about any special care? Just mild soap and water with inspections? Anyway, thanks for any feedback and keep up the great work folks! Jim, in NW FL, Kitfox 7 in progress __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: Don Sweeney <donswen(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Lowell Frqnk
Mike Thanks again for the information about Lowell. The information I'm looking for isn't too extensive. Type of spark plugs, normal operating oil press, oil temp range and prop dimensions. The head has the usual 4 spark plugs but it also has the capability for a second set of spark plugs for dual ignition. I was wondering how to set up a second magneto or some sort of electronic ignition. An interesting thought. I wanted to ask Lowell if he thought dual ignition was desireable. Again, thanks for the info. Don S. f. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Propeller crush plates
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Since we are on the subject of electronics......May I poise a question concerning rectifiers and charging units to an A-65 Continental. I believe the air boat society has tinkered with these modifications sand have made several aircraft engines design to achieve certain goals. Understanding the natural of aircraft and all the do's and an don'ts....please read with open mind of curiosity. I have contacted a gentleman who has years in both aircraft and air boat manufacturing. They do manufacture a Lycoming flywheel machined to fit the end of an A-65 along with mounts to include a starter. The trick is mount a alternator to make the charging system complete. Now, I have visited with another gentleman who advised a rectifier can be utilized off the mags to provide a nice trickle charge to a motorcycle battery. See where I am going with this. I would like to have and a few gages run off the battery, radio, and a strobe. No I am not wanting to create a commercial aircraft nor reinvent the wheel. Just seeking input as to see if anyone examine this information or attempted something similar. Sincerely, Ken H Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: A65 spark plugs
Oscar, First off it would be an 18mm thread. Then pick a heat range. I forget off hand which I got thru advice from my mentor. I'll check. Then I got the snazzy plug wire with the old time colors, and the brass ends for both the mag end and the plug end, and boots. They are under "wire and wire ends" walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 9:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 spark plugs > > > Walt writes- > >>Assuming you have a non certified 65 > > Yes, I believe I do have a non-certified engine. > >>Get standard auto plugs at a fraction of the price. > > I suppose then I'd have to get adapters for the harness leads? There > would have to be something to adapt the screw-on end to the auto spark > plug. > >>go here http://www.magnetoparts.com/index.html > > Lots of stuff there, Walt. Where exactly would I look for what you're > indicating? Thanks for your patience and help. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Charging Question
Date: Aug 07, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Ken, I have a Powersonic 18 AH battery with no charger on my Piet. I run the radio every time I fly, the transponder when I'm going into controlled fields, and the Ah-Ooooga horn whenever the spirit moves me. I charged the battery after I got back from OSH last year and finally ran it dead a couple of weeks ago and had to recharge it. Unless you're running a starter or landing lights I don't think you need much of a charger. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Since we are on the subject of electronics......May I poise a question concerning rectifiers and charging units to an A-65 Continental. I believe the air boat society has tinkered with these modifications sand have made several aircraft engines design to achieve certain goals. Understanding the natural of aircraft and all the do's and an don'ts....please read with open mind of curiosity. I have contacted a gentleman who has years in both aircraft and air boat manufacturing. They do manufacture a Lycoming flywheel machined to fit the end of an A-65 along with mounts to include a starter. The trick is mount a alternator to make the charging system complete. Now, I have visited with another gentleman who advised a rectifier can be utilized off the mags to provide a nice trickle charge to a motorcycle battery. See where I am going with this. I would like to have and a few gages run off the battery, radio, and a strobe. No I am not wanting to create a commercial aircraft nor reinvent the wheel. Just seeking input as to see if anyone examine this information or attempted something similar. Sincerely, Ken H Fargo, ND _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Date: Aug 07, 2006
On my last plane (Avid) I used a motorcycle battery charger (about $11.00 from WalMart) and it worked great. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Ken, I have a Powersonic 18 AH battery with no charger on my Piet. I run the radio every time I fly, the transponder when I'm going into controlled fields, and the Ah-Ooooga horn whenever the spirit moves me. I charged the battery after I got back from OSH last year and finally ran it dead a couple of weeks ago and had to recharge it. Unless you're running a starter or landing lights I don't think you need much of a charger. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 4:02 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Since we are on the subject of electronics......May I poise a question concerning rectifiers and charging units to an A-65 Continental. I believe the air boat society has tinkered with these modifications sand have made several aircraft engines design to achieve certain goals. Understanding the natural of aircraft and all the do's and an don'ts....please read with open mind of curiosity. I have contacted a gentleman who has years in both aircraft and air boat manufacturing. They do manufacture a Lycoming flywheel machined to fit the end of an A-65 along with mounts to include a starter. The trick is mount a alternator to make the charging system complete. Now, I have visited with another gentleman who advised a rectifier can be utilized off the mags to provide a nice trickle charge to a motorcycle battery. See where I am going with this. I would like to have and a few gages run off the battery, radio, and a strobe. No I am not wanting to create a commercial aircraft nor reinvent the wheel. Just seeking input as to see if anyone examine this information or attempted something similar. Sincerely, Ken H Fargo, ND _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Propeller crush plates
Date: Aug 07, 2006
Ed, I have 6061T crush plates on my 160HP Cozy Mark IV, 150HP Osprey and 108HP Piete. Each has a wooden prop. With steel washers. Never a problem. One issue though-------you gotta torque bolts on the prop muliple times to get the wood to stablize. I torque down to appox. 90% of final setting, wait a couple days (the apparent torque drops to about 20% below where I had torqued before), then torque up to 95% wait another couple days, do it again until I reach the recommended torque for the size bolts used. Then and only then I safety wire and try the engine. Never have had a wooden prop that remained at the proper torque, by doing it just one time, wooden props are kinda funny, especially if they're new or have been off the engine for some time. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Piet builders and AC list
In a message dated 8/5/2006 11:19:01 AM Central Standard Time, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com writes: The after work hours are pretty much open times form me exclusive of the obligatory business dinner and entertainment component. During those travels I would like to combine my love of flying with my interest in the Piet experience to visit some of the builders in process and some of the flying Piets. John, and all, If you are ever in the Wichita KS area, be sure to look me up. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Propeller crush plates
In a message dated 8/7/2006 2:25:39 PM Central Standard Time, flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes: Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. Ed, The crush plates on the Cont A65 are steel. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
In a message dated 8/7/2006 3:04:58 PM Central Standard Time, kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes: The trick is mount a alternator to make the charging system complete. Now, I have visited with another gentleman who advised a rectifier can be utilized off the mags to provide a nice trickle charge to a motorcycle battery. See where I am going with this. I would like to have and a few gages run off the battery, radio, and a strobe. No I am not wanting to create a commercial aircraft nor reinvent the wheel. Just seeking input as to see if anyone examine this information or attempted something similar. Ken, If you have an engine driven charging system, the FAA requires you to have a transponder. Using the current produced by the Mags is a Big NO NO !! I have a small sealed lead acid battery (about $20) for the handheld radio, smoke pump, and rarely used GPS. I have a solar charger panel mounted on top of the wing, but still have to charge the battery about 3 times a year. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Ken, You stated that the FAA requires you to have a transponder if you have an engine driven charging system. This is NOT TRUE. You only need a transponder turned on when flying through specified airspace ie: Class C, B. FYI. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it>
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos
Hello to everybody! Andrea from Italy is calling here. Although I'm not directly involved in a Piet, I'm happily helping dad, who has a life-lasting affair with the Piet since the good ol'days of the Peck-Polymers Peanuts Kits, building his one. We have the original 1933 improved plans for the standard fuselage, the 3 piece wing modification, the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. The decision has been made to make a later, stretched fuselage and the three-piece wing for ease of transport. Materials will be our white spruce, which is almost as good as Sitka except it can be obtained without defects for maximum lengths of 12', marine-grade mahogany and aircraft-grade birch plywood. So far, the ribs and tail surfaces have been made, the spars for both wings and center section have been laminated and we're ready to start working on the fuselage. And here we are some trouble for us: 1) The only drawing we have for the stretched fuselage does not show where the cross-members between fuselage sides are located (only the fuselage sides themselves are shown). Are we missing other drawings or should they simply positioned using the standard fuselage drawings as a reference (which we have)? 2) What is the general consensus (if there's such a thing ) among builers about fuselage width and cabane length? I've heard about difficulty getting into the front seat and having room to spare on the sides. 3) Has anyone a decent drawing for the standard landing gear with wooden inverted Vs and one piece pass-through axle? The Improved Plans do not show it and the drawing from the Flying and Glider manual is completely useless. 4) Between wing drag wires and flight controls, we counted 34 turnbuckle assemblies. The bill from AS&S, plus freight and import taxes exceeds $1,000. YIKES! Anyone knows a source of a cheaper alternative? Is there still a "new surplus" market for these things? BTW, to Michael D. Cuy: I'm happy to tell you that your Piet is our chief source of inspiration. I unfortunately lost the SA number which featured her. I'd love to find a hi-res, three-quarter front right photo like the one included in the article. Any chance? SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Andrea, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. 1. As I recall, I put the cross braces in my long fuselage in line with the uprights. I had made mine wider than plans (by 1") so I had to recalculate the widths anyway. Basically, if you have the longerons, you can lay them out on your workbench spaced the correct distance apart at the cockpit, and hold them in place with blocks nailed to the workbench. Then bend them together at the tail and trace along the longeron to see where it naturally wants to be. Then you can measure from the centerline to the longeron to figure out how long to make the cross pieces. 2. As I said, I made mine 1" wider. My Cabanes are 2-1/2" taller than plans and I have a circular cutout in the trailing edge of the centersection like Mike Cuy to make it easier to get in and out of the rear cockpit (and to improve visibility in turns) 3. I used the Flying and Glider Manual Plans for my wooden V- straight axle landing gear. I agree, that little drawing on page 17 is terrible, but it has enough information to make the landing gear. 4. If you have a chance to visit Oshkosh, you can find suppliers of surplus parts and can get turnbuckles for about $5 each. I think I got mine from B&B Aircraft Supplies in Kansas. I'll look and see if I can find their address for you. Where in Italy are you? I was just there on my honeymoon, visiting Rome, Naples, Venice, and Florence. Beautiful country and very friendly people. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Vavassori Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos Hello to everybody! Andrea from Italy is calling here. Although I'm not directly involved in a Piet, I'm happily helping dad, who has a life-lasting affair with the Piet since the good ol'days of the Peck-Polymers Peanuts Kits, building his one. We have the original 1933 improved plans for the standard fuselage, the 3 piece wing modification, the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. The decision has been made to make a later, stretched fuselage and the three-piece wing for ease of transport. Materials will be our white spruce, which is almost as good as Sitka except it can be obtained without defects for maximum lengths of 12', marine-grade mahogany and aircraft-grade birch plywood. So far, the ribs and tail surfaces have been made, the spars for both wings and center section have been laminated and we're ready to start working on the fuselage. And here we are some trouble for us: 1) The only drawing we have for the stretched fuselage does not show where the cross-members between fuselage sides are located (only the fuselage sides themselves are shown). Are we missing other drawings or should they simply positioned using the standard fuselage drawings as a reference (which we have)? 2) What is the general consensus (if there's such a thing ) among builers about fuselage width and cabane length? I've heard about difficulty getting into the front seat and having room to spare on the sides. 3) Has anyone a decent drawing for the standard landing gear with wooden inverted Vs and one piece pass-through axle? The Improved Plans do not show it and the drawing from the Flying and Glider manual is completely useless. 4) Between wing drag wires and flight controls, we counted 34 turnbuckle assemblies. The bill from AS&S, plus freight and import taxes exceeds $1,000. YIKES! Anyone knows a source of a cheaper alternative? Is there still a "new surplus" market for these things? BTW, to Michael D. Cuy: I'm happy to tell you that your Piet is our chief source of inspiration. I unfortunately lost the SA number which featured her. I'd love to find a hi-res, three-quarter front right photo like the one included in the article. Any chance? SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Charging Question
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Ken, On my Corvair powered Pietenpol: I use a belt driven John Deere altenator (20 A), voltage regulator and a 13 Ah Ultrabat sealed battery Enough energy to run all instruments and power my hand held radio and GPS. Plus enough juice for the electric starter. The DAR that signed of my Pietenpol last year never mentioned that I must have a Transponder or Nav lights. Nor could I find the rules on this in the FAA regs. Although there are a number of (non FAA) web sites stating you must have nav lights and Transponder with a engine driven electric system. My Pietenpol has no Transponder or Nav lights (Day VFR only) If you fly an airplane commercially it is a different story. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Charging Question
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Years ago a friend had a Luscome to which he wanted to add a battery and a charging system. He bought a small sealed gel-cell and we proceeded to invent a wind generator using a bicycle generator and a model airplane prop. I designed and built a regulator for the generator while he fitted the prop to the Canadian Tire bicycle generator. He came to work Monday with a long face. Turns out he wanted to test the prop/generator combination before mounting it. He opened up the window of the Luscome and stuck the generator/prop out the window. It wound up nicely, just one problem; he had his hand across the contacts. After several seconds of being electrocuted he dropped the generator. Apparently the electrical shock was bad enough he was unable to bring his arm back in the window. So we dropped the project (no un intended). But it might still be worth looking at. Bob. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: August 8, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Ken, On my Corvair powered Pietenpol: I use a belt driven John Deere altenator (20 A), voltage regulator and a 13 Ah Ultrabat sealed battery Enough energy to run all instruments and power my hand held radio and GPS. Plus enough juice for the electric starter. The DAR that signed of my Pietenpol last year never mentioned that I must have a Transponder or Nav lights. Nor could I find the rules on this in the FAA regs. Although there are a number of (non FAA) web sites stating you must have nav lights and Transponder with a engine driven electric system. My Pietenpol has no Transponder or Nav lights (Day VFR only) If you fly an airplane commercially it is a different story. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Oklahoma Fly-in this weekend
This weekend we're having a fly-in/BBQ at O44 (Oscar 44) near Norman, Oklahoma. I don't know of any Pietenpols that will be there other than mine, but I'd sure like to see some. Chuck G.? Jim M.? I know there are a few local builders I haven't met yet. Drive or fly, however you can make it. It'll be a little warm, but we'll still have a good time. I'll provide drinks, & there is a small BBQ restaraunt where we'll have lunch & cool off. Details here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: photos coming to you off-line Andrea
Andrea-- thank you for the kind words and I'll send you some shots of my plane offline so not to annoy any of the dial-up users on the list. There are many good shots of my plane and the other beauties and projects out there at the Matronics e-mail photoshare located here: This is a link we should all bookmark and in fact I just finally did that instead of searching for it all the time. Welcome to the list and keep us posted ! Mike C. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pietenpol-list.html#Top ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)mailbag.com>
Subject: Re: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Hi! I built a 2 ft. square frame covered it with dacron, shrunk it with a household iron . Then added two coats of non-shrink dope. I then divided the frame into four 1 ft. squares. Two of the squares are painted with three coats of Benjamin Moore red and yellow. The other two squares are painted with Sherwin Williams red and yellow. All these paints are exterier high gloss acrylic house paint each with a 30 yr. warranty. Water base, easy clean up, apply with a roller, and no odor. This square has been outside in my yard since May 2005. I live in Madison, Wi. where it gets pretty cold in the winter and snows. The sample lies flat so the snow and rain pile up on it. So far it looks totally unaffected. Both brands are doing fine. Considering I plan on hangaring my Piet and avoid flying in the rain, I plan on using either or both paints. By the way, these paints were designed for use on houses which usually are outside all year. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: I can fly legally, right ?
Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition inspection. The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot drivers license rule, right ???? I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a current medical. This guy is ME as you all know by now. Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos
Hi Andrea, I have just completed my "Jenny style" landing gear with the straight axles. I was given the following advise from a few of the guys on this list (THANK YOU!!!) You can use the drawing from the F&G Manual. There are a few things you should know. The bottom ash blocks will NOT end up parallel with the line of flight, but rather they will be toed-out and be pointing back directly at the tail skid plate. I tried in vain to make those blocks somehow be in line with the slip stream, and ended up throwing away two complete sets, wasting MUCHO TIME (that's Italian, for lots of time). I will email you some pictures when I get home to my home computer. They will be of immense help. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
Good news. Yes Mike as long as you have not flunked a medical or had your medical revoked you just let it expire and you are a Sport Pilot (as long as you have a drivers license). I am extreamly well versed on this having talked to the FAA and the EAA rep in charge of this area several times. The one hurdle that EAA is working on with the FAA is allowing people who flunked their medicals to be Sport Pilots with their drivers license. They are also changing the 3rd class medical currency requirement for lucky people under fourty to five years. Rick On 8/8/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > > Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ > > A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition > inspection. > > The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. > > The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too > busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. > > This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot > drivers license rule, right ???? > > I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so > I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a > current medical. > > This guy is ME as you all know by now. > > Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday > > PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
In a message dated 8/8/2006 10:35:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: They are also changing the 3rd class medical currency requirement for lucky people under fourty to five years. Rick When does this change become effective? Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol?
Yes Steve this was at SNF and Oshkosh. They said that the Piet was their inspiration for this thing. Really like the idea of creating a low wing, parasol, and biplane versions based on a common fuselage, kind of like the flybaby. Would like to see a biplane version of it. The custom engine gauges they had made for it are vintage looking and are beautiful. On 8/7/06, Steve Ruse wrote: > > > > > Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on these, I hadn't seen > it discussed here before. An Italian company (Aerolab) apparently > intends to manufacture a light sport aircraft with a fuselage that > mimics a Pietenpol. The planes will be powered by a Rotec Radial > engine, and they have low-wing, biplane, and parasol versions in the > works, although it appears that they have only built a low-wing. > Supposed to be in the $70k price range, available in 2007, and kits > will be available. The Parasol does look very similar to the Pietenpol. > > Pictures & information: > http://www.aerolab.it/images/AEREO-9-2-HI.jpg > http://www.aerolab.it/images/_AEREO-7-3.jpg > http://www.aerolab.it/pages/pro_eng.htm > http://www.aerolab.it/pages/lo_gallery.htm# > > I think they may have been at OshKosh and Sun & Fun? > > I know its not a Pietenpol, but I like to see anyone manufacturing > aircraft like this. The $70k price tag (if they can meet that) is > much, much lower than any other LSA I'm aware of, and might put some > people in the sky who can't or wouldn't build their own plane, but > can't put down six figures for a new plane. > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
Don't know, Boyce, their was an article in the AirVenture daily paper last week, may be able to find more info on it in the EAA website. Think they are also extending the first class medical duration to one year. But most of us Piet people don't care about that. Rick On 8/8/06, RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/8/2006 10:35:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: > > They are also changing the 3rd class medical currency requirement for > lucky people under fourty to five years. > > Rick > > When does this change become effective? > Boyce > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Piet tape
Hey Mike, when are you going to move up to the 21st century and put your excellent video on DVD like Chuck? My VCR is on its last legs and can hardly rewind anymore (mostly from fast-forwarding and rewinding your Piet tape). The time still continuously blinks "12:00 AM", haven't figured out how to fix that yet. Rick On 8/7/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > > Dave-- Chuck Gantzer has some DVD productions available and I have a > VHS (no DVD version available) tape > here: http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html > > Mike Cuy > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Propeller crush plates
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Would it be advisible to undo the bolts while the prop is not in use over the winter? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: August 7, 2006 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Ed, I have 6061T crush plates on my 160HP Cozy Mark IV, 150HP Osprey and 108HP Piete. Each has a wooden prop. With steel washers. Never a problem. One issue though-------you gotta torque bolts on the prop muliple times to get the wood to stablize. I torque down to appox. 90% of final setting, wait a couple days (the apparent torque drops to about 20% below where I had torqued before), then torque up to 95% wait another couple days, do it again until I reach the recommended torque for the size bolts used. Then and only then I safety wire and try the engine. Never have had a wooden prop that remained at the proper torque, by doing it just one time, wooden props are kinda funny, especially if they're new or have been off the engine for some time. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. <mailto:flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: nostalgic VHS format
Well Rick my tape is tooo long to fit on a DVD and I don't want to generate two discs. I've tinkered with the idea of re-editing the production (I found some good video that should/could be included) down to 2 hours so it will fit on a DVD but like answering machines and cell phones, I was the last on my block to get either of those. NOTE to builders: disconnect your phone while building. I did. I even went to far as to black-out my basement windows with black poster board (more than one use, eh ??) so that guys would not stop over and drink beer and want to ask me why I was doing it this way or that way and tell me about the good old days. I had lotsa people visit and had the EAA group out once or twice but when I was building I was building. Only went to absolute required family functions. Stopped playing softball, going golfing, and even flying for a while there. Work hard, fly sooner. Mike C. end of editorial commentary ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bought a GN-1
Date: Aug 08, 2006
I am now the proud owner of a GN-1. Bought it in Winsted Minnesota from Felix Quast. It was registered 1998 and has 214 hours on it. Has an A65 and a metal prop. Felix is a big guy, 240 lbs and the metal prop helped with the CG. We got it to West Virginia on a trailer, so now we have to put it back together. Hope to be flying it within the month. I want to thank Dick Navratil who helped with the inspection and loading up in Minnesota. He also put us up at his house and provided the Leinenkugel's. Without his help the GN-1 would still be in Minnesota. THANKS DICK!!! The plane was started by Henry Gobin of N Attleboro MA and Donald E Boyd in 1981. Does anybody know these gentlemen? Skip Skip-Cinda Gadd csfog(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: nostalgic VHS format
Mike, You are so right when it comes to builder's distractions. Its hard enough to get things done the way it is with everything turned off. I even find myself turning off my radio because I can't think through a problem when its on. When I get back to some routine work, I'll turn it back on again. I just bought a cool new tool. Combination lathe/milling machine from Grizzly. Only $1200.00 delivered! They even had cheaper models than that. This is one good thing about getting these in from Taiwan. Now even guys like me can afford them. Now I can make my wheel hubs with ease and precision. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Propeller crush plates
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Harvey, I never thought too much about it, but one homebuilt, the Osprey spends it's winters outside here in AK so the prop is removed anyway. I find the 150 hp Osprey big wooden prop needs the technique of torquing the bolts, then waiting, then retorquing in able to get to stablizes each time it's removed before I can finally get the prop bolts to recommended torque and have them stay torqued. The compressed wood, decompresses over the winter and has to be compressed again. Find on the other homebuilts left in hanger in FL that the superheated summer hanger affects the wood's degree of compression. Because I don't have spinners on any plane, it's easy to check prop bolt torque couple times per year and re safety wire. Cozy and Osprey are both pusher homebuilts with prop extensions made of AL and AL crush plates 1/2" thick. Available commercially. All Rutan type canard pushers with through the prop disc exhaust systems have to have these extension, some of these guys are running 180hp Lycos with AL crush plate, so don't think AL is limited to C65's or VW engines. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Would it be advisible to undo the bolts while the prop is not in use over the winter? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: August 7, 2006 9:14 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Ed, I have 6061T crush plates on my 160HP Cozy Mark IV, 150HP Osprey and 108HP Piete. Each has a wooden prop. With steel washers. Never a problem. One issue though-------you gotta torque bolts on the prop muliple times to get the wood to stablize. I torque down to appox. 90% of final setting, wait a couple days (the apparent torque drops to about 20% below where I had torqued before), then torque up to 95% wait another couple days, do it again until I reach the recommended torque for the size bolts used. Then and only then I safety wire and try the engine. Never have had a wooden prop that remained at the proper torque, by doing it just one time, wooden props are kinda funny, especially if they're new or have been off the engine for some time. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Grass Runways with fuel service
Hi Group: I'm sure most of you already know about this, I came across it and thought I would pass it along... Please find the "handy list" below for your review. Max "Mad Dawg" Davis NX101XW reserved Arlington, TX. Flight Planning with Your Vintage Airplane Prefer Grass Runways? Here=99s some help. As an EAA member (an important part of your VAA membership), you can use th e EAA Flight Planner to chart your trip to Wittman Field for EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2006. Just click on the EAA Flight Planner link on the left side of the home pages at _www.eaa.org_ (http://www.eaa.org/) or _www.vintageaircraft.org_ (http://www.vintageaircraft.org/) . As an added bonus, we have a _handy list_ (http://www.vintageaircraft.org/news/Alpha%20Grass%20Runways%20PDF.pdf) (PD F) of airports that have both grass runways and fuel service, compiled by VAA member Kris Kortokrax. Kris flies a variety of old biplanes that are more pleasant to fly when the y are flown from grass strips, and he and his buddies from Shelbyville, Illinois, do their best to keep the old biplanes happy (and keep tire wear to a minimum) by flying cross-country from grass strip to grass strip. Finding f uel facilities can be a challenge these days, and Kris has distilled this airpo rt information to be useful for like-minded grass-runway-preferring pilots. Th is data was current as of the beginning of the year, and we=99d suggest calling ahead to confirm fuel availability and hours of operation. If you have any changes or additions, drop us an e-mail here at _vintageaircraft(at)eaa.org_ (mailto:vintageaircraft(at)eaa.org) and we=99ll forward it to Kris. Our thanks to Kris for sharing his list. Let us know if you find it useful! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol?
Date: Aug 08, 2006
I did a close look see on that plane at Oshkosh. Very nice workmanship. I especially like the low wing model. It is hard to get over the Imitation Pietenpol aspect though. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol? Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on these, I hadn't seen it discussed here before. An Italian company (Aerolab) apparently intends to manufacture a light sport aircraft with a fuselage that mimics a Pietenpol. The planes will be powered by a Rotec Radial engine, and they have low-wing, biplane, and parasol versions in the works, although it appears that they have only built a low-wing. Supposed to be in the $70k price range, available in 2007, and kits will be available. The Parasol does look very similar to the Pietenpol. Pictures & information: http://www.aerolab.it/images/AEREO-9-2-HI.jpg http://www.aerolab.it/images/_AEREO-7-3.jpg http://www.aerolab.it/pages/pro_eng.htm http://www.aerolab.it/pages/lo_gallery.htm# I think they may have been at OshKosh and Sun & Fun? I know its not a Pietenpol, but I like to see anyone manufacturing aircraft like this. The $70k price tag (if they can meet that) is much, much lower than any other LSA I'm aware of, and might put some people in the sky who can't or wouldn't build their own plane, but can't put down six figures for a new plane. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Jim I have the Sherwin Williams paint on mine. I hangar it though. Clean up is easy, just mild soap and water. It holds up well, has been on for 3 years now. It stays on houses just fine so a plane should be no problem. Also if you aren't happy with it, you won't have much invested, so just recover. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Carriere" <jimcarriere(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity Hello all, First I should briefly introduce myself. I am a Kitfox builder (half done 90% remaining). I also enjoy following this list for the stories about plans building, occasional scratch building, experimenting, and stick-and-rudder flying. I'm 32 which makes me a "youngun" in grassroots aviation, another way of saying I have plenty of fun to look forward to. There is some really great material online, on this list and elsewhere, about fabric covering and latex paint. There is solid technical data, hands-on experience, paint selection, but not much about how it holds up beyond, say, about 5 years, particularly outdoors. My main question is whether anybody's latex painted airplane been parked in the sun for months or years? Where I live, hangar space is an issue (maybe even for folding wings), frequent trailering will not be a possibility for me, but tie-down space is cheap and abundant. By the way, it rains almost daily in the summertime although the winters are mild (northwest Florida). My other question is about any special care? Just mild soap and water with inspections? Anyway, thanks for any feedback and keep up the great work folks! Jim, in NW FL, Kitfox 7 in progress __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
Mike, Your understanding of the FARs regarging Sport Pilot agree with my current understanding. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:15:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition inspection. The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot drivers license rule, right ???? I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a current medical. This guy is ME as you all know by now. Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: congratulations, Skip !
Skip-- that is great news. Good going. You live on an airport community, right ? You might be flying by the weekend huh ? If you can please post a photo or two on the photoshare or e-mail one direct. I'm sure Steve Ruse would like to see it too as he is an avid GN-1 owner/pilot. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: congratulations, Skip !
I'd love to see it...every time I see a new plane on the list, I hope they are local. Too bad. I flew 7hrs cross country last weekend...I need someone to fly with! I can host pictures if you'd like. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Michael D Cuy : > > > Skip-- that is great news. Good going. You live on an airport > community, right ? You might be flying by the weekend huh ? > > If you can please post a photo or two on the photoshare or e-mail one > direct. I'm sure Steve Ruse would like to see it too as he is an > > avid GN-1 owner/pilot. > > Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bought a GN-1
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Great News, Skip Wish I could be there to see that big smile when you fly it for the first time. Barry Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip-Cinda Gadd To: pietenpol-list Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bought a GN-1 I am now the proud owner of a GN-1. Bought it in Winsted Minnesota from Felix Quast. It was registered 1998 and has 214 hours on it. Has an A65 and a metal prop. Felix is a big guy, 240 lbs and the metal prop helped with the CG. We got it to West Virginia on a trailer, so now we have to put it back together. Hope to be flying it within the month. I want to thank Dick Navratil who helped with the inspection and loading up in Minnesota. He also put us up at his house and provided the Leinenkugel's. Without his help the GN-1 would still be in Minnesota. THANKS DICK!!! The plane was started by Henry Gobin of N Attleboro MA and Donald E Boyd in 1981. Does anybody know these gentlemen? Skip Skip-Cinda Gadd csfog(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Grass Runways with fuel service
Max, Thanks for the great resource! Oddities that I've already noticed: C37 is not on the list and there are no Kentucky airports listed. Does anyone know of a grass strip in Ky that sells fuel? Thanks, Jeff >Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" >Content-Language: en > >Hi Group: > >I'm sure most of you already know about this, I came across it and >thought I would pass it along... Please find the "handy list" below >for your review. > >Max "Mad Dawg" Davis >NX101XW reserved >Arlington, TX. > > >Flight Planning with Your Vintage Airplane > >Prefer Grass Runways? Here's some help. > >As an EAA member (an important part of your VAA membership), you can >use the EAA Flight Planner to chart your trip to Wittman Field for >EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2006. Just click on the EAA Flight Planner >link on the left side of the home pages at ><http://www.eaa.org/>www.eaa.org or ><http://www.vintageaircraft.org/>www.vintageaircraft.org. > >As an added bonus, we have a ><http://www.vintageaircraft.org/news/Alpha%20Grass%20Runways%20PDF.pdf>handy >list (PDF) of airports that have both grass runways and fuel >service, compiled by VAA member Kris Kortokrax. > >Kris flies a variety of old biplanes that are more pleasant to fly >when they are flown from grass strips, and he and his buddies from >Shelbyville, Illinois, do their best to keep the old biplanes happy >(and keep tire wear to a minimum) by flying cross-country from grass >strip to grass strip. Finding fuel facilities can be a challenge >these days, and Kris has distilled this airport information to be >useful for like-minded grass-runway-preferring pilots. This data was >current as of the beginning of the year, and we'd suggest calling >ahead to confirm fuel availability and hours of operation. If you >have any changes or additions, drop us an e-mail here at >vintageaircraft(at)eaa.org and we'll >forward it to Kris. > >Our thanks to Kris for sharing his list. Let us know if you find it useful! -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
Mike, As I understand it you are legal on the medical - use your driver's license and sef certify. Is your BFR is up to date too? You still need that. Dave At 10:15 AM 8/8/2006, you wrote: > > >Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ > >A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition >inspection. > >The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. > >The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too >busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. > >This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot >drivers license rule, right ???? > >I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so >I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a >current medical. > >This guy is ME as you all know by now. > >Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday > >PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <foto(at)alaska.net>
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport Pilot can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, SLSA, or LSA registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare with the FAA that you are changing from a ? Private Pilot Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the FAA wanted to get sticky, and they might, they will require you to get a proficiency check for each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport Pilot Catagory. For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as an ELSA from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport Pilot License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( and use my status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with a n expired medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft enthusiasts. If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been done here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up until 2010. At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read the FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. RS ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Date: Tuesday, August 8, 2006 6:15 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? > > Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ > > A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current > condition > inspection. > > The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. > > The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he > was too > busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. > > This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport > pilot > drivers license rule, right ???? > > I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the > plane so > I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not > having a > current medical. > > This guy is ME as you all know by now. > > Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday > > PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
Mike, You should check with EAA, but based on a forum Forrest Barber did recently, here's my take on it. Your plane qualifies as a LSA without any further effort on your part due to the fact that it falls well within the design/performance criteria for an LSA - it does not need to be reregistered as anything but what it already is. Registering a plane as a LSA means that it can only be used under LS rules. Any GA aircraft (certificated or experimental) that is already registered with an N number can be flown under LS rules if it meets the design/performance criteria for a LSA (i.e. does not exceed the weight/performance limits set for flying under LS rules). However, since your medical has lapsed, YOU can't fly it until you have the proper endorsements to fly under SP rules. Given that you already have a valid ticket, getting this should be no big deal. Run down to Barber airport & have a chat with Forrest, I believe he is now certified to teach/endorse in the SP category - you'll probably be able to get him to do the whatever is necessary to get you qualified in a matter of hours. Hope this helps. Kip Gardner > >I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport >Pilot can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, >SLSA, or LSA registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare >with the FAA that you are changing from a ? Private Pilot >Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the FAA wanted to get sticky, and >they might, they will require you to get a proficiency check for >each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport Pilot Catagory. >For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as an ELSA >from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check >and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. >I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport >Pilot License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( >and use my status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with >a n expired medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft >enthusiasts. >If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been >done here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up >until 2010. >At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read >the FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. >RS -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
Date: Aug 08, 2006
I dont mean to "butt-In" butt...I thought Recreational/Private pilot certified was "Grandfathered" in and could fly as LSP. I may be wrong...I usually am. Dave..Down in Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kip and Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? > > > Mike, > > You should check with EAA, but based on a forum Forrest Barber did > recently, here's my take on it. > > Your plane qualifies as a LSA without any further effort on your part due > to the fact that it falls well within the design/performance criteria for > an LSA - it does not need to be reregistered as anything but what it > already is. > > Registering a plane as a LSA means that it can only be used under LS > rules. Any GA aircraft (certificated or experimental) that is already > registered with an N number can be flown under LS rules if it meets the > design/performance criteria for a LSA (i.e. does not exceed the > weight/performance limits set for flying under LS rules). > > However, since your medical has lapsed, YOU can't fly it until you have > the proper endorsements to fly under SP rules. > > Given that you already have a valid ticket, getting this should be no big > deal. Run down to Barber airport & have a chat with Forrest, I believe he > is now certified to teach/endorse in the SP category - you'll probably be > able to get him to do the whatever is necessary to get you qualified in a > matter of hours. > > Hope this helps. > > Kip Gardner > > >> >>I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport Pilot >>can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, SLSA, or LSA >>registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare with the FAA that you >>are changing from a ? Private Pilot Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the >>FAA wanted to get sticky, and they might, they will require you to get a >>proficiency check for each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport >>Pilot Catagory. For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as >>an ELSA from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check >>and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. >>I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport Pilot >>License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( and use my >>status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with a n expired >>medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft enthusiasts. >>If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been done >>here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up until 2010. >>At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read the >>FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. >>RS > > -- > > North Canton, OH > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > Limit Now At: 1MB - 08/08/06 (was 2MB) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
The best bet is to email Joe Norris of the EAA at jnorris(at)eaa.org He will get right back to you and he is knowledgeable. Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Sportpilot.org has the following answers. Bash EAA all you want (I do too) but they need to be given credit for LSA and Sport Pilot. The bottom line is Mikee can fly his airplane without guilt or endorsements. Question : Does an existing private pilot operating as a sport pilot need an endorsement to fly different makes and models of light sport aircraft? Answer : No, as private pilot, you have already been trained to a higher standard than a sport pilot. You are restricted to the category and class that you have earned and that is shown on your pilot certificate. So if you hold an Airplane-Single Engine Land rating, you are allowed to operate any single engine airplane that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft. However, if the aircraft is a taildragger, you are required to comply with the tailwheel endorsement requirements of 61.31(i). Question : Can I fly an Experimental Amateur-Built (homebuilt) aircraft as a sport pilot? Answer : Yes, as long as the aircraft meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft - a Pietenpol does. (Ref: 14 CFR Part 1.1) Question : What does an existing private pilot (or higher) need to do to fly as a sport pilot? Answer : An airman holding a private pilot or higher pilot certificate has already been trained to a higher standard than a sport pilot. To operate as a sport pilot, you are dropping down and operating at a lower level. The primary advantage of operating as a sport pilot is that you can avoid the cost and hassle of maintaining a third class medical. You can use your valid US state drivers license in lieu of an FAA medical certificate as long as your most recent medical application was not denied, suspended, withdrawn, or revoked. If you use your drivers license to establish medical fitness, you must carry it with you when you fly. (Remember that 14 CFR 61.3 requires all pilots to carry a photo ID, so you'll probably be carrying your drivers license anyway.) To operate as a sport pilot, you must; a) Operate day, VFR only b) Carry your valid state drivers license c) Self certify before each flight that you have no medical conditions that would jeopardize the safety of the flight d) Fly an aircraft that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft (LSA) e) Fly only your approved category/class of LSA f) Have a current flight review The main disadvantages of a operating as a sport pilot are that youre limited to a flying only an aircraft that meest the LSA definition, you cannot fly at night or over 10000 MSA, and are limited by the aircraft to one passenger Question : I held a third class med special issuance for 5 yrs. I let it lapse 3 and a half yrs ago. I was not denied, am i eligable to fly light sport? (Mike's lapsed with no special issuance). Answer : Yes. Since your medical certificate was not denied, revoked, suspended or withdrawn by the FAA, you have the option of operating at the sport pilot level. -john- >> >> I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport >> Pilot can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, >> SLSA, or LSA registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare >> with the FAA that you are changing from a ? Private Pilot >> Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the FAA wanted to get sticky, and >> they might, they will require you to get a proficiency check for >> each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport Pilot Catagory. >> For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as an ELSA >> from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check >> and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. >> I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport >> Pilot License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( >> and use my status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with >> a n expired medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft >> enthusiasts. >> If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been >> done here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up >> until 2010. >> At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read >> the FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. >> RS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: Don Sweeney <donswen(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Lowell Frank, Funk engine
Sayre,William G Hi Bill, Good to hear from you. I got to talk to Lowell Frank and had a most interesting conversation. He has a wealth of Pietenpol and Funk information. As Michael Cuy said,he is a definite expert on the Funk.Some points of information were: Regular auto gas can be used. Use 10-40 wt. oil Up to 65 pounds of oil pressure Change the oil 30 minutes after the first run. Install a gas shut-off valve at the wing tank feed. I have a Funk Engine service manual that has all of the specs for the engine; torque values, how to disassemble and reasemble the engine and much more. I can make a copy of it and send it to you. It is about ten pages long. All I need is an address. Don S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
In a message dated 8/8/2006 5:21:14 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: Ken, You stated that the FAA requires you to have a transponder if you have an engine driven charging system. This is NOT TRUE. You only need a transponder turned on when flying through specified airspace ie: Class C, B. FYI. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL Dan, That was me that mentioned this portion of the FAA requirements for a transponder. I searched for the FAR, but I can't find it. It was someone on this list that produced that FAR, and that is what stuck in my 51 year old mind. I think it may have been Cy. As I recall, it stated that if a plane is certified with an engine driven electrical system, then it must have a transponder. There is another FAR that calls out when a transponder must be used. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 08, 2006
Subject: Re: Oklahoma Fly-in this weekend
In a message dated 8/8/2006 8:42:04 AM Central Standard Time, steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes: This weekend we're having a fly-in/BBQ at O44 (Oscar 44) near Norman, Oklahoma. I don't know of any Pietenpols that will be there other than mine, but I'd sure like to see some. Chuck G.? Jim M.? I know there are a few local builders I haven't met yet. Drive or fly, however you can make it. It'll be a little warm, but we'll still have a good time. I'll provide drinks, & there is a small BBQ restaraunt where we'll have lunch & cool off. Details here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin Steve, I can't make it this weekend, but I just got a flyer in the snail mail that mentioned 'Oklahoma Festival of Flight' - Sept 30 / Oct 1. I may be able to make that one, and then there is the EAA fly-in at Bartlesville OK. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 08, 2006
From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Oshkosh Pictures, Sportcamper.
My Oshkosh equivalent of the Brodhead pages I put up last week is done. Took me forever, but it's pretty nice. http://www.builddiary.net/logs/22 I stopped by the Aerolab pen when I was there, got a couple pictures of the low wing version of the Sportcamper. I get the impression they haven't flown the high wing version yet. They also had an interesting bicycle design there, also very expensive ($1700, and it's not a racing bike). The sportcamper is at least a size bigger than a Pietenpol, seems to be made to a fairly nice standard, but they are trying to sell stuff they haven't built yet (as far as I know.) The Italian designer seemed like a decent guy. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Pietenpol Website
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Good morning all. It's now 12:56am on the west coast. Why am I up so late? It's the only time I get to work on my plane. Works going to be a killer tomorrow but it's worth it. I'm sure others can relate. Anyway, if anyone is interested, I have put a bunch of Pietenpol files on a WebPage. www.westcoastpiet.com It's mostly pictures right now but I am working on some other construction tips I hope to add. If you have anything to add to the site, I have 49GB of web space to play with. Comment? Suggestions? Opinions? are always welcome, but not necessarily taken. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Chuck, My 1948 Aeronca Sedan has been flying legally all these years without a transponder. It was certificated with an electrical system when it was made. The reason no one can find the FAR is because it does not exist. I really want to install one because I live right outside the 30 mi. radius "Mode C Veil" around O'hare and I can't legally fly anywhere east. Ironically, if I had a Champ or ultralight it would be perfectly legal for me to do so, because the airplane was originally certificated without an electrical system. The requirement in that case would be for me to simply stay out of the Class B airspace. I could actually fly within 5 mi. of O'hare. I will try to find the FAR that states that. This is a very interesting situation. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: ding ding ding....John H., the winner !
Thanks very much John-----you were right on the money again with that answer. All the erroneous answers just illustrate how mis-informed most of us are on the conditions we need to meet to fly sport pilot. Excellent response, John. A local CFI told me the same things as were in your post from EAA so I can ignore all the other posts. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: congratulations, Skip !
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Mike, Steve, and Barry, Thanks. Yes we live at Hales Landing airpark, 2WV3. We are 12 miles south of Parkersburg WV airport. It is a great home builders paradise with a grass runway, when I get our home built I can get on with home building my Piet. Until then flying the GN-1 somebody else built will be pretty cool. It will probably be a couple weeks, I want to do a real carful inspection and new weight and balance before I fly. With some help from Cinda, posted some pictures to photo share, they should be up in a couple days. Barry, good picture of the Last Original. Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Website
Great site Chris, kind of a start on a Wikipedia for Piet info, just needs a search engine now ;) . Rick On 8/9/06, Catdesigns wrote: > > > > > Good morning all. It's now 12:56am on the west coast. Why am I up so > late? > It's the only time I get to work on my plane. Works going to be a killer > tomorrow but it's worth it. I'm sure others can relate. > > Anyway, if anyone is interested, I have put a > bunch of Pietenpol files on a WebPage. www.westcoastpiet.com > > It's mostly pictures right now but I am working on some other construction > tips I hope to add. If you have anything to add to the site, I have 49GB > of > web space to play with. > > Comment? Suggestions? Opinions? are always welcome, but not necessarily > taken. > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bought a GN-1
Congratulations Skip, now when you finish your Piet you can make a husband and wife formation flight to Broadhead (would probably be the first time that ever happened). Good luck on the reassembly. Rick H. On 8/8/06, Skip-Cinda Gadd wrote: > > I am now the proud owner of a GN-1. Bought it in Winsted Minnesota from > Felix Quast. It was registered 1998 and has 214 hours on it. Has an A65 and > a metal prop. Felix is a big guy, 240 lbs and the metal prop helped with the > CG. We got it to West Virginia on a trailer, so now we have to put it back > together. Hope to be flying it within the month. > > I want to thank Dick Navratil who helped with the inspection and loading > up in Minnesota. He also put us up at his house and provided the > Leinenkugel's. Without his help the GN-1 would still be in Minnesota. THANKS > DICK!!! > > The plane was started by Henry Gobin of N Attleboro MA and Donald E Boyd > in 1981. Does anybody know these gentlemen? > > Skip > > > Skip-Cinda Gadd > csfog(at)earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2006
From: anncarlek(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 08/08/06
-----Original Message----- From: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 08/08/06 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-08-08.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2006-08-08.txt =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/08/06: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:19 AM - Re: Charging Question (HelsperSew(at)aol.com) 2. 03:27 AM - (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos (Andrea Vavassori) 3. 04:42 AM - Re: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos (Phillips, Jack) 4. 05:43 AM - Re: Charging Question (Hans Vander Voort) 5. 06:21 AM - Re: Charging Question (Robert Gow) 6. 06:39 AM - Oklahoma Fly-in this weekend (Steve Ruse) 7. 07:01 AM - photos coming to you off-line Andrea (Michael D Cuy) 8. 07:14 AM - Re: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity (Roman Bukolt) 9. 07:15 AM - I can fly legally, right ? (Michael D Cuy) 10. 07:30 AM - Re: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos (HelsperSew(at)aol.com) 11. 07:32 AM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (Rick Holland) 12. 07:38 AM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com) 13. 07:49 AM - Re: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol? (Rick Holland) 14. 07:53 AM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (Rick Holland) 15. 07:58 AM - Re: Piet tape (Rick Holland) 16. 08:08 AM - Re: Propeller crush plates () 17. 08:43 AM - nostalgic VHS format (Michael D Cuy) 18. 08:50 AM - Bought a GN-1 (Skip-Cinda Gadd) 19. 09:02 AM - Re: nostalgic VHS format (HelsperSew(at)aol.com) 20. 09:23 AM - Re: Propeller crush plates (Gordon Bowen) 21. 09:25 AM - Grass Runways with fuel service (Andimaxd(at)aol.com) 22. 09:35 AM - Re: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol? (Dick Navratil) 23. 09:40 AM - Re: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity (Dick Navratil) 24. 10:03 AM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (Mike Volckmann) 25. 10:17 AM - congratulations, Skip ! (Michael D Cuy) 26. 11:47 AM - Re: congratulations, Skip ! (Steve Ruse) 27. 11:51 AM - Re: Bought a GN-1 (Barry Davis) 28. 02:27 PM - Re: Grass Runways with fuel service (Jeff Boatright) 29. 02:48 PM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (Dave and Connie) 30. 04:29 PM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? () 31. 05:14 PM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (Kip and Beth Gardner) 32. 05:33 PM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (D.Reid) 33. 05:37 PM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (Jeff Boatright) 34. 05:53 PM - Re: I can fly legally, right ? (John Hofmann) 35. 07:27 PM - Lowell Frank, Funk engine (Don Sweeney) 36. 07:57 PM - Re: Charging Question (Rcaprd(at)aol.com) 37. 08:00 PM - Re: Oklahoma Fly-in this weekend (Rcaprd(at)aol.com) 38. 10:26 PM - Oshkosh Pictures, Sportcamper. (Dave Case) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Ken, You stated that the FAA requires you to have a transponder if you have an engine driven charging system. This is NOT TRUE. You only need a transponder turned on when flying through specified airspace ie: Class C, B. FYI. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it> Subject: Pietenpol-List: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos Hello to everybody! Andrea from Italy is calling here. Although I'm not directly involved in a Piet, I'm happily helping dad, who has a life-lasting affair with the Piet since the good ol'days of the Peck-Polymers Peanuts Kits, building his one. We have the original 1933 improved plans for the standard fuselage, the 3 piece wing modification, the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. The decision has been made to make a later, stretched fuselage and the three-piece wing for ease of transport. Materials will be our white spruce, which is almost as good as Sitka except it can be obtained without defects for maximum lengths of 12', marine-grade mahogany and aircraft-grade birch plywood. So far, the ribs and tail surfaces have been made, the spars for both wings and center section have been laminated and we're ready to start working on the fuselage. And here we are some trouble for us: 1) The only drawing we have for the stretched fuselage does not show where the cross-members between fuselage sides are located (only the fuselage sides themselves are shown). Are we missing other drawings or should they simply positioned using the standard fuselage drawings as a reference (which we have)? 2) What is the general consensus (if there's such a thing ) among builers about fuselage width and cabane length? I've heard about difficulty getting into the front seat and having room to spare on the sides. 3) Has anyone a decent drawing for the standard landing gear with wooden inverted Vs and one piece pass-through axle? The Improved Plans do not show it and the drawing from the Flying and Glider manual is completely useless. 4) Between wing drag wires and flight controls, we counted 34 turnbuckle assemblies. The bill from AS&S, plus freight and import taxes exceeds $1,000. YIKES! Anyone knows a source of a cheaper alternative? Is there still a "new surplus" market for these things? BTW, to Michael D. Cuy: I'm happy to tell you that your Piet is our chief source of inspiration. I unfortunately lost the SA number which featured her. I'd love to find a hi-res, three-quarter front right photo like the one included in the article. Any chance? SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> Hi Andrea, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. 1. As I recall, I put the cross braces in my long fuselage in line with the uprights. I had made mine wider than plans (by 1") so I had to recalculate the widths anyway. Basically, if you have the longerons, you can lay them out on your workbench spaced the correct distance apart at the cockpit, and hold them in place with blocks nailed to the workbench. Then bend them together at the tail and trace along the longeron to see where it naturally wants to be. Then you can measure from the centerline to the longeron to figure out how long to make the cross pieces. 2. As I said, I made mine 1" wider. My Cabanes are 2-1/2" taller than plans and I have a circular cutout in the trailing edge of the centersection like Mike Cuy to make it easier to get in and out of the rear cockpit (and to improve visibility in turns) 3. I used the Flying and Glider Manual Plans for my wooden V- straight axle landing gear. I agree, that little drawing on page 17 is terrible, but it has enough information to make the landing gear. 4. If you have a chance to visit Oshkosh, you can find suppliers of surplus parts and can get turnbuckles for about $5 each. I think I got mine from B&B Aircraft Supplies in Kansas. I'll look and see if I can find their address for you. Where in Italy are you? I was just there on my honeymoon, visiting Rome, Naples, Venice, and Florence. Beautiful country and very friendly people. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrea Vavassori Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos Hello to everybody! Andrea from Italy is calling here. Although I'm not directly involved in a Piet, I'm happily helping dad, who has a life-lasting affair with the Piet since the good ol'days of the Peck-Polymers Peanuts Kits, building his one. We have the original 1933 improved plans for the standard fuselage, the 3 piece wing modification, the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. The decision has been made to make a later, stretched fuselage and the three-piece wing for ease of transport. Materials will be our white spruce, which is almost as good as Sitka except it can be obtained without defects for maximum lengths of 12', marine-grade mahogany and aircraft-grade birch plywood. So far, the ribs and tail surfaces have been made, the spars for both wings and center section have been laminated and we're ready to start working on the fuselage. And here we are some trouble for us: 1) The only drawing we have for the stretched fuselage does not show where the cross-members between fuselage sides are located (only the fuselage sides themselves are shown). Are we missing other drawings or should they simply positioned using the standard fuselage drawings as a reference (which we have)? 2) What is the general consensus (if there's such a thing ) among builers about fuselage width and cabane length? I've heard about difficulty getting into the front seat and having room to spare on the sides. 3) Has anyone a decent drawing for the standard landing gear with wooden inverted Vs and one piece pass-through axle? The Improved Plans do not show it and the drawing from the Flying and Glider manual is completely useless. 4) Between wing drag wires and flight controls, we counted 34 turnbuckle assemblies. The bill from AS&S, plus freight and import taxes exceeds $1,000. YIKES! Anyone knows a source of a cheaper alternative? Is there still a "new surplus" market for these things? BTW, to Michael D. Cuy: I'm happy to tell you that your Piet is our chief source of inspiration. I unfortunately lost the SA number which featured her. I'd love to find a hi-res, three-quarter front right photo like the one included in the article. Any chance? SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it _________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Ken, On my Corvair powered Pietenpol: I use a belt driven John Deere altenator (20 A), voltage regulator and a 13 Ah Ultrabat sealed battery Enough energy to run all instruments and power my hand held radio and GPS. Plus enough juice for the electric starter. The DAR that signed of my Pietenpol last year never mentioned that I must have a Transponder or Nav lights. Nor could I find the rules on this in the FAA regs. Although there are a number of (non FAA) web sites stating you must have nav lights and Transponder with a engine driven electric system. My Pietenpol has no Transponder or Nav lights (Day VFR only) If you fly an airplane commercially it is a different story. Hans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Years ago a friend had a Luscome to which he wanted to add a battery and a charging system. He bought a small sealed gel-cell and we proceeded to invent a wind generator using a bicycle generator and a model airplane prop. I designed and built a regulator for the generator while he fitted the prop to the Canadian Tire bicycle generator. He came to work Monday with a long face. Turns out he wanted to test the prop/generator combination before mounting it. He opened up the window of the Luscome and stuck the generator/prop out the window. It wound up nicely, just one problem; he had his hand across the contacts. After several seconds of being electrocuted he dropped the generator. Apparently the electrical shock was bad enough he was unable to bring his arm back in the window. So we dropped the project (no un intended). But it might still be worth looking at. Bob. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: August 8, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question Ken, On my Corvair powered Pietenpol: I use a belt driven John Deere altenator (20 A), voltage regulator and a 13 Ah Ultrabat sealed battery Enough energy to run all instruments and power my hand held radio and GPS. Plus enough juice for the electric starter. The DAR that signed of my Pietenpol last year never mentioned that I must have a Transponder or Nav lights. Nor could I find the rules on this in the FAA regs. Although there are a number of (non FAA) web sites stating you must have nav lights and Transponder with a engine driven electric system. My Pietenpol has no Transponder or Nav lights (Day VFR only) If you fly an airplane commercially it is a different story. Hans ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oklahoma Fly-in this weekend This weekend we're having a fly-in/BBQ at O44 (Oscar 44) near Norman, Oklahoma. I don't know of any Pietenpols that will be there other than mine, but I'd sure like to see some. Chuck G.? Jim M.? I know there are a few local builders I haven't met yet. Drive or fly, however you can make it. It'll be a little warm, but we'll still have a good time. I'll provide drinks, & there is a small BBQ restaraunt where we'll have lunch & cool off. Details here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: photos coming to you off-line Andrea Andrea-- thank you for the kind words and I'll send you some shots of my plane offline so not to annoy any of the dial-up users on the list. There are many good shots of my plane and the other beauties and projects out there at the Matronics e-mail photoshare located here: This is a link we should all bookmark and in fact I just finally did that instead of searching for it all the time. Welcome to the list and keep us posted ! Mike C. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/pietenpol-list.html#Top ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)mailbag.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity Hi! I built a 2 ft. square frame covered it with dacron, shrunk it with a household iron . Then added two coats of non-shrink dope. I then divided the frame into four 1 ft. squares. Two of the squares are painted with three coats of Benjamin Moore red and yellow. The other two squares are painted with Sherwin Williams red and yellow. All these paints are exterier high gloss acrylic house paint each with a 30 yr. warranty. Water base, easy clean up, apply with a roller, and no odor. This square has been outside in my yard since May 2005. I live in Madison, Wi. where it gets pretty cold in the winter and snows. The sample lies flat so the snow and rain pile up on it. So far it looks totally unaffected. Both brands are doing fine. Considering I plan on hangaring my Piet and avoid flying in the rain, I plan on using either or both paints. By the way, these paints were designed for use on houses which usually are outside all year. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition inspection. The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot drivers license rule, right ???? I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a current medical. This guy is ME as you all know by now. Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos Hi Andrea, I have just completed my "Jenny style" landing gear with the straight axles. I was given the following advise from a few of the guys on this list (THANK YOU!!!) You can use the drawing from the F&G Manual. There are a few things you should know. The bottom ash blocks will NOT end up parallel with the line of flight, but rather they will be toed-out and be pointing back directly at the tail skid plate. I tried in vain to make those blocks somehow be in line with the slip stream, and ended up throwing away two complete sets, wasting MUCHO TIME (that's Italian, for lots of time). I will email you some pictures when I get home to my home computer. They will be of immense help. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Good news. Yes Mike as long as you have not flunked a medical or had your medical revoked you just let it expire and you are a Sport Pilot (as long as you have a drivers license). I am extreamly well versed on this having talked to the FAA and the EAA rep in charge of this area several times. The one hurdle that EAA is working on with the FAA is allowing people who flunked their medicals to be Sport Pilots with their drivers license. They are also changing the 3rd class medical currency requirement for lucky people under fourty to five years. Rick On 8/8/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > > Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ > > A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition > inspection. > > The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. > > The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too > busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. > > This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot > drivers license rule, right ???? > > I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so > I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a > current medical. > > This guy is ME as you all know by now. > > Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday > > PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? In a message dated 8/8/2006 10:35:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: They are also changing the 3rd class medical currency requirement for lucky people under fourty to five years. Rick When does this change become effective? Boyce ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol? Yes Steve this was at SNF and Oshkosh. They said that the Piet was their inspiration for this thing. Really like the idea of creating a low wing, parasol, and biplane versions based on a common fuselage, kind of like the flybaby. Would like to see a biplane version of it. The custom engine gauges they had made for it are vintage looking and are beautiful. On 8/7/06, Steve Ruse wrote: > > > > > Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on these, I hadn't seen > it discussed here before. An Italian company (Aerolab) apparently > intends to manufacture a light sport aircraft with a fuselage that > mimics a Pietenpol. The planes will be powered by a Rotec Radial > engine, and they have low-wing, biplane, and parasol versions in the > works, although it appears that they have only built a low-wing. > Supposed to be in the $70k price range, available in 2007, and kits > will be available. The Parasol does look very similar to the Pietenpol. > > Pictures & information: > http://www.aerolab.it/images/AEREO-9-2-HI.jpg > http://www.aerolab.it/images/_AEREO-7-3.jpg > http://www.aerolab.it/pages/pro_eng.htm > http://www.aerolab.it/pages/lo_gallery.htm# > > I think they may have been at OshKosh and Sun & Fun? > > I know its not a Pietenpol, but I like to see anyone manufacturing > aircraft like this. The $70k price tag (if they can meet that) is > much, much lower than any other LSA I'm aware of, and might put some > people in the sky who can't or wouldn't build their own plane, but > can't put down six figures for a new plane. > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Don't know, Boyce, their was an article in the AirVenture daily paper last week, may be able to find more info on it in the EAA website. Think they are also extending the first class medical duration to one year. But most of us Piet people don't care about that. Rick On 8/8/06, RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 8/8/2006 10:35:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: > > They are also changing the 3rd class medical currency requirement for > lucky people under fourty to five years. > > Rick > > When does this change become effective? > Boyce > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet tape Hey Mike, when are you going to move up to the 21st century and put your excellent video on DVD like Chuck? My VCR is on its last legs and can hardly rewind anymore (mostly from fast-forwarding and rewinding your Piet tape). The time still continuously blinks "12:00 AM", haven't figured out how to fix that yet. Rick On 8/7/06, Michael D Cuy wrote: > > Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> > > Dave-- Chuck Gantzer has some DVD productions available and I have a > VHS (no DVD version available) tape > here: http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html > > Mike Cuy > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> Would it be advisible to undo the bolts while the prop is not in use over the winter? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: August 7, 2006 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Ed, I have 6061T crush plates on my 160HP Cozy Mark IV, 150HP Osprey and 108HP Piete. Each has a wooden prop. With steel washers. Never a problem. One issue though-------you gotta torque bolts on the prop muliple times to get the wood to stablize. I torque down to appox. 90% of final setting, wait a couple days (the apparent torque drops to about 20% below where I had torqued before), then torque up to 95% wait another couple days, do it again until I reach the recommended torque for the size bolts used. Then and only then I safety wire and try the engine. Never have had a wooden prop that remained at the proper torque, by doing it just one time, wooden props are kinda funny, especially if they're new or have been off the engine for some time. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. <mailto:flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: nostalgic VHS format Well Rick my tape is tooo long to fit on a DVD and I don't want to generate two discs. I've tinkered with the idea of re-editing the production (I found some good video that should/could be included) down to 2 hours so it will fit on a DVD but like answering machines and cell phones, I was the last on my block to get either of those. NOTE to builders: disconnect your phone while building. I did. I even went to far as to black-out my basement windows with black poster board (more than one use, eh ??) so that guys would not stop over and drink beer and want to ask me why I was doing it this way or that way and tell me about the good old days. I had lotsa people visit and had the EAA group out once or twice but when I was building I was building. Only went to absolute required family functions. Stopped playing softball, going golfing, and even flying for a while there. Work hard, fly sooner. Mike C. end of editorial commentary ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bought a GN-1 I am now the proud owner of a GN-1. Bought it in Winsted Minnesota from Felix Quast. It was registered 1998 and has 214 hours on it. Has an A65 and a metal prop. Felix is a big guy, 240 lbs and the metal prop helped with the CG. We got it to West Virginia on a trailer, so now we have to put it back together. Hope to be flying it within the month. I want to thank Dick Navratil who helped with the inspection and loading up in Minnesota. He also put us up at his house and provided the Leinenkugel's. Without his help the GN-1 would still be in Minnesota. THANKS DICK!!! The plane was started by Henry Gobin of N Attleboro MA and Donald E Boyd in 1981. Does anybody know these gentlemen? Skip Skip-Cinda Gadd csfog(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: nostalgic VHS format Mike, You are so right when it comes to builder's distractions. Its hard enough to get things done the way it is with everything turned off. I even find myself turning off my radio because I can't think through a problem when its on. When I get back to some routine work, I'll turn it back on again. I just bought a cool new tool. Combination lathe/milling machine from Grizzly. Only $1200.00 delivered! They even had cheaper models than that. This is one good thing about getting these in from Taiwan. Now even guys like me can afford them. Now I can make my wheel hubs with ease and precision. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Harvey, I never thought too much about it, but one homebuilt, the Osprey spends it's winters outside here in AK so the prop is removed anyway. I find the 150 hp Osprey big wooden prop needs the technique of torquing the bolts, then waiting, then retorquing in able to get to stablizes each time it's removed before I can finally get the prop bolts to recommended torque and have them stay torqued. The compressed wood, decompresses over the winter and has to be compressed again. Find on the other homebuilts left in hanger in FL that the superheated summer hanger affects the wood's degree of compression. Because I don't have spinners on any plane, it's easy to check prop bolt torque couple times per year and re safety wire. Cozy and Osprey are both pusher homebuilts with prop extensions made of AL and AL crush plates 1/2" thick. Available commercially. All Rutan type canard pushers with through the prop disc exhaust systems have to have these extension, some of these guys are running 180hp Lycos with AL crush plate, so don't think AL is limited to C65's or VW engines. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Would it be advisible to undo the bolts while the prop is not in use over the winter? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: August 7, 2006 9:14 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Ed, I have 6061T crush plates on my 160HP Cozy Mark IV, 150HP Osprey and 108HP Piete. Each has a wooden prop. With steel washers. Never a problem. One issue though-------you gotta torque bolts on the prop muliple times to get the wood to stablize. I torque down to appox. 90% of final setting, wait a couple days (the apparent torque drops to about 20% below where I had torqued before), then torque up to 95% wait another couple days, do it again until I reach the recommended torque for the size bolts used. Then and only then I safety wire and try the engine. Never have had a wooden prop that remained at the proper torque, by doing it just one time, wooden props are kinda funny, especially if they're new or have been off the engine for some time. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Propeller crush plates Is anyone out there using an aluminum propeller crush plate? Needing a crush plate for my Franklin bolt pattern and not having any luck finding one I had my machinist friend make one for me out of 1/4" 6061T aluminum plate. He chamfered the edges and polished it to a chrome like finish. The perfect touch for the nose of my Piet. This morning I was looking through Tony's "Firewall Forward" for prop bolt information when to my shock I found a paragraph where he say's an aluminum crush plate is okay for VW props but steel should be used on bigger props. Since the bolts are not torqued enough to crush the wood prop hub I would think my plate would be fine. What do you think guys??? After all the work my buddy put into this one I wont have the heart to ask him to do a steel one. Ed G. in Fl. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grass Runways with fuel service Hi Group: I'm sure most of you already know about this, I came across it and thought I would pass it along... Please find the "handy list" below for your review. Max "Mad Dawg" Davis NX101XW reserved Arlington, TX. Flight Planning with Your Vintage Airplane Prefer Grass Runways? Here=99s some help. As an EAA member (an important part of your VAA membership), you can use th e EAA Flight Planner to chart your trip to Wittman Field for EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2006. Just click on the EAA Flight Planner link on the left side of the home pages at _www.eaa.org_ (http://www.eaa.org/) or _www.vintageaircraft.org_ (http://www.vintageaircraft.org/) . As an added bonus, we have a _handy list_ (http://www.vintageaircraft.org/news/Alpha%20Grass%20Runways%20PDF.pdf) (PD F) of airports that have both grass runways and fuel service, compiled by VAA member Kris Kortokrax. Kris flies a variety of old biplanes that are more pleasant to fly when the y are flown from grass strips, and he and his buddies from Shelbyville, Illinois, do their best to keep the old biplanes happy (and keep tire wear to a minimum) by flying cross-country from grass strip to grass strip. Finding f uel facilities can be a challenge these days, and Kris has distilled this airpo rt information to be useful for like-minded grass-runway-preferring pilots. Th is data was current as of the beginning of the year, and we=99d suggest calling ahead to confirm fuel availability and hours of operation. If you have any changes or additions, drop us an e-mail here at _vintageaircraft(at)eaa.org_ (mailto:vintageaircraft(at)eaa.org) and we=99ll forward it to Kris. Our thanks to Kris for sharing his list. Let us know if you find it useful! ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol? I did a close look see on that plane at Oshkosh. Very nice workmanship. I especially like the low wing model. It is hard to get over the Imitation Pietenpol aspect though. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aerolab - imitation Pietenpol? Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on these, I hadn't seen it discussed here before. An Italian company (Aerolab) apparently intends to manufacture a light sport aircraft with a fuselage that mimics a Pietenpol. The planes will be powered by a Rotec Radial engine, and they have low-wing, biplane, and parasol versions in the works, although it appears that they have only built a low-wing. Supposed to be in the $70k price range, available in 2007, and kits will be available. The Parasol does look very similar to the Pietenpol. Pictures & information: http://www.aerolab.it/images/AEREO-9-2-HI.jpg http://www.aerolab.it/images/_AEREO-7-3.jpg http://www.aerolab.it/pages/pro_eng.htm http://www.aerolab.it/pages/lo_gallery.htm# I think they may have been at OshKosh and Sun & Fun? I know its not a Pietenpol, but I like to see anyone manufacturing aircraft like this. The $70k price tag (if they can meet that) is much, much lower than any other LSA I'm aware of, and might put some people in the sky who can't or wouldn't build their own plane, but can't put down six figures for a new plane. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity Jim I have the Sherwin Williams paint on mine. I hangar it though. Clean up is easy, just mild soap and water. It holds up well, has been on for 3 years now. It stays on houses just fine so a plane should be no problem. Also if you aren't happy with it, you won't have much invested, so just recover. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Carriere" <jimcarriere(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dacron and Latex Paint Long-Term Longevity Hello all, First I should briefly introduce myself. I am a Kitfox builder (half done 90% remaining). I also enjoy following this list for the stories about plans building, occasional scratch building, experimenting, and stick-and-rudder flying. I'm 32 which makes me a "youngun" in grassroots aviation, another way of saying I have plenty of fun to look forward to. There is some really great material online, on this list and elsewhere, about fabric covering and latex paint. There is solid technical data, hands-on experience, paint selection, but not much about how it holds up beyond, say, about 5 years, particularly outdoors. My main question is whether anybody's latex painted airplane been parked in the sun for months or years? Where I live, hangar space is an issue (maybe even for folding wings), frequent trailering will not be a possibility for me, but tie-down space is cheap and abundant. By the way, it rains almost daily in the summertime although the winters are mild (northwest Florida). My other question is about any special care? Just mild soap and water with inspections? Anyway, thanks for any feedback and keep up the great work folks! Jim, in NW FL, Kitfox 7 in progress __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Mike, Your understanding of the FARs regarging Sport Pilot agree with my current understanding. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:15:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition inspection. The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot drivers license rule, right ???? I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a current medical. This guy is ME as you all know by now. Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: congratulations, Skip ! Skip-- that is great news. Good going. You live on an airport community, right ? You might be flying by the weekend huh ? If you can please post a photo or two on the photoshare or e-mail one direct. I'm sure Steve Ruse would like to see it too as he is an avid GN-1 owner/pilot. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: congratulations, Skip ! I'd love to see it...every time I see a new plane on the list, I hope they are local. Too bad. I flew 7hrs cross country last weekend...I need someone to fly with! I can host pictures if you'd like. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Michael D Cuy : > > > Skip-- that is great news. Good going. You live on an airport > community, right ? You might be flying by the weekend huh ? > > If you can please post a photo or two on the photoshare or e-mail one > direct. I'm sure Steve Ruse would like to see it too as he is an > > avid GN-1 owner/pilot. > > Mike C. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bought a GN-1 Great News, Skip Wish I could be there to see that big smile when you fly it for the first time. Barry Davis ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip-Cinda Gadd To: pietenpol-list Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bought a GN-1 I am now the proud owner of a GN-1. Bought it in Winsted Minnesota from Felix Quast. It was registered 1998 and has 214 hours on it. Has an A65 and a metal prop. Felix is a big guy, 240 lbs and the metal prop helped with the CG. We got it to West Virginia on a trailer, so now we have to put it back together. Hope to be flying it within the month. I want to thank Dick Navratil who helped with the inspection and loading up in Minnesota. He also put us up at his house and provided the Leinenkugel's. Without his help the GN-1 would still be in Minnesota. THANKS DICK!!! The plane was started by Henry Gobin of N Attleboro MA and Donald E Boyd in 1981. Does anybody know these gentlemen? Skip Skip-Cinda Gadd csfog(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grass Runways with fuel service Max, Thanks for the great resource! Oddities that I've already noticed: C37 is not on the list and there are no Kentucky airports listed. Does anyone know of a grass strip in Ky that sells fuel? Thanks, Jeff >Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" >Content-Language: en > >Hi Group: > >I'm sure most of you already know about this, I came across it and >thought I would pass it along... Please find the "handy list" below >for your review. > >Max "Mad Dawg" Davis >NX101XW reserved >Arlington, TX. > > >Flight Planning with Your Vintage Airplane > >Prefer Grass Runways? Here's some help. > >As an EAA member (an important part of your VAA membership), you can >use the EAA Flight Planner to chart your trip to Wittman Field for >EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2006. Just click on the EAA Flight Planner >link on the left side of the home pages at ><http://www.eaa.org/>www.eaa.org or ><http://www.vintageaircraft.org/>www.vintageaircraft.org. > >As an added bonus, we have a ><http://www.vintageaircraft.org/news/Alpha%20Grass%20Runways%20PDF.pdf>handy >list (PDF) of airports that have both grass runways and fuel >service, compiled by VAA member Kris Kortokrax. > >Kris flies a variety of old biplanes that are more pleasant to fly >when they are flown from grass strips, and he and his buddies from >Shelbyville, Illinois, do their best to keep the old biplanes happy >(and keep tire wear to a minimum) by flying cross-country from grass >strip to grass strip. Finding fuel facilities can be a challenge >these days, and Kris has distilled this airport information to be >useful for like-minded grass-runway-preferring pilots. This data was >current as of the beginning of the year, and we'd suggest calling >ahead to confirm fuel availability and hours of operation. If you >have any changes or additions, drop us an e-mail here at >vintageaircraft(at)eaa.org and we'll >forward it to Kris. > >Our thanks to Kris for sharing his list. Let us know if you find it useful! -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Mike, As I understand it you are legal on the medical - use your driver's license and sef certify. Is your BFR is up to date too? You still need that. Dave At 10:15 AM 8/8/2006, you wrote: > > >Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ > >A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current condition >inspection. > >The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. > >The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he was too >busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. > >This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport pilot >drivers license rule, right ???? > >I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the plane so >I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not having a >current medical. > >This guy is ME as you all know by now. > >Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday > >PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ From: <foto(at)alaska.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport Pilot can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, SLSA, or LSA registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare with the FAA that you are changing from a ? Private Pilot Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the FAA wanted to get sticky, and they might, they will require you to get a proficiency check for each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport Pilot Catagory. For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as an ELSA from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport Pilot License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( and use my status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with a n expired medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft enthusiasts. If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been done here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up until 2010. At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read the FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. RS ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> Subject: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? > > Hey all you well-read, well-informed Piet nuts out there------ > > A guy flies a Piet that is fully maintained and has a current > condition > inspection. > > The plane falls within the sport pilot category easily. > > The pilot lets his 3rd class medical expire August 1st because he > was too > busy nosing around Brodhead and Oshkosh and forgot to make an appt. > > This guy can still fly the Pietenpol by falling back on the sport > pilot > drivers license rule, right ???? > > I have no passenger liability insurance or other insurance on the > plane so > I'm not worried about busting the insurance requirements by not > having a > current medical. > > This guy is ME as you all know by now. > > Mike C. thinking about going flying today after work or Wednesday > > PS....don't forget to check the TFR's dummy.. Note to self. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? Mike, You should check with EAA, but based on a forum Forrest Barber did recently, here's my take on it. Your plane qualifies as a LSA without any further effort on your part due to the fact that it falls well within the design/performance criteria for an LSA - it does not need to be reregistered as anything but what it already is. Registering a plane as a LSA means that it can only be used under LS rules. Any GA aircraft (certificated or experimental) that is already registered with an N number can be flown under LS rules if it meets the design/performance criteria for a LSA (i.e. does not exceed the weight/performance limits set for flying under LS rules). However, since your medical has lapsed, YOU can't fly it until you have the proper endorsements to fly under SP rules. Given that you already have a valid ticket, getting this should be no big deal. Run down to Barber airport & have a chat with Forrest, I believe he is now certified to teach/endorse in the SP category - you'll probably be able to get him to do the whatever is necessary to get you qualified in a matter of hours. Hope this helps. Kip Gardner > >I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport >Pilot can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, >SLSA, or LSA registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare >with the FAA that you are changing from a ? Private Pilot >Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the FAA wanted to get sticky, and >they might, they will require you to get a proficiency check for >each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport Pilot Catagory. >For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as an ELSA >from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check >and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. >I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport >Pilot License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( >and use my status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with >a n expired medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft >enthusiasts. >If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been >done here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up >until 2010. >At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read >the FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. >RS -- North Canton, OH ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? I dont mean to "butt-In" butt...I thought Recreational/Private pilot certified was "Grandfathered" in and could fly as LSP. I may be wrong...I usually am. Dave..Down in Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kip and Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? > > > Mike, > > You should check with EAA, but based on a forum Forrest Barber did > recently, here's my take on it. > > Your plane qualifies as a LSA without any further effort on your part due > to the fact that it falls well within the design/performance criteria for > an LSA - it does not need to be reregistered as anything but what it > already is. > > Registering a plane as a LSA means that it can only be used under LS > rules. Any GA aircraft (certificated or experimental) that is already > registered with an N number can be flown under LS rules if it meets the > design/performance criteria for a LSA (i.e. does not exceed the > weight/performance limits set for flying under LS rules). > > However, since your medical has lapsed, YOU can't fly it until you have > the proper endorsements to fly under SP rules. > > Given that you already have a valid ticket, getting this should be no big > deal. Run down to Barber airport & have a chat with Forrest, I believe he > is now certified to teach/endorse in the SP category - you'll probably be > able to get him to do the whatever is necessary to get you qualified in a > matter of hours. > > Hope this helps. > > Kip Gardner > > >> >>I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport Pilot >>can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, SLSA, or LSA >>registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare with the FAA that you >>are changing from a ? Private Pilot Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the >>FAA wanted to get sticky, and they might, they will require you to get a >>proficiency check for each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport >>Pilot Catagory. For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as >>an ELSA from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check >>and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. >>I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport Pilot >>License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( and use my >>status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with a n expired >>medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft enthusiasts. >>If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been done >>here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up until 2010. >>At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read the >>FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. >>RS > > -- > > North Canton, OH > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > Limit Now At: 1MB - 08/08/06 (was 2MB) > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? The best bet is to email Joe Norris of the EAA at jnorris(at)eaa.org He will get right back to you and he is knowledgeable. Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I can fly legally, right ? From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> Sportpilot.org has the following answers. Bash EAA all you want (I do too) but they need to be given credit for LSA and Sport Pilot. The bottom line is Mikee can fly his airplane without guilt or endorsements. Question : Does an existing private pilot operating as a sport pilot need an endorsement to fly different makes and models of light sport aircraft? Answer : No, as private pilot, you have already been trained to a higher standard than a sport pilot. You are restricted to the category and class that you have earned and that is shown on your pilot certificate. So if you hold an Airplane-Single Engine Land rating, you are allowed to operate any single engine airplane that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft. However, if the aircraft is a taildragger, you are required to comply with the tailwheel endorsement requirements of 61.31(i). Question : Can I fly an Experimental Amateur-Built (homebuilt) aircraft as a sport pilot? Answer : Yes, as long as the aircraft meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft - a Pietenpol does. (Ref: 14 CFR Part 1.1) Question : What does an existing private pilot (or higher) need to do to fly as a sport pilot? Answer : An airman holding a private pilot or higher pilot certificate has already been trained to a higher standard than a sport pilot. To operate as a sport pilot, you are dropping down and operating at a lower level. The primary advantage of operating as a sport pilot is that you can avoid the cost and hassle of maintaining a third class medical. You can use your valid US state drivers license in lieu of an FAA medical certificate as long as your most recent medical application was not denied, suspended, withdrawn, or revoked. If you use your drivers license to establish medical fitness, you must carry it with you when you fly. (Remember that 14 CFR 61.3 requires all pilots to carry a photo ID, so you'll probably be carrying your drivers license anyway.) To operate as a sport pilot, you must; a) Operate day, VFR only b) Carry your valid state drivers license c) Self certify before each flight that you have no medical conditions that would jeopardize the safety of the flight d) Fly an aircraft that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft (LSA) e) Fly only your approved category/class of LSA f) Have a current flight review The main disadvantages of a operating as a sport pilot are that youre limited to a flying only an aircraft that meest the LSA definition, you cannot fly at night or over 10000 MSA, and are limited by the aircraft to one passenger Question : I held a third class med special issuance for 5 yrs. I let it lapse 3 and a half yrs ago. I was not denied, am i eligable to fly light sport? (Mike's lapsed with no special issuance). Answer : Yes. Since your medical certificate was not denied, revoked, suspended or withdrawn by the FAA, you have the option of operating at the sport pilot level. -john- >> >> I don't think you can fly it on a Sport Pilot's License. A Sport >> Pilot can't fly a regular N-numbered aircraft unless it is an ELSA, >> SLSA, or LSA registered aircraft. Also you would have to declare >> with the FAA that you are changing from a ? Private Pilot >> Certification to a Sport Pilot. If the FAA wanted to get sticky, and >> they might, they will require you to get a proficiency check for >> each type of aircraft that you fly...in the Sport Pilot Catagory. >> For example you may be able to to re-register your Piet as an ELSA >> from Experimental but you will have to have an airworthiness check >> and it would have to be approved by a DAR to do it. >> I checked into this because I am in the process of getting a Sport >> Pilot License so that I can get a Sport Pilot Instructor's license ( >> and use my status as a USUA BFI although I also have a Private with >> a n expired medical) and teach flying to Light Sport Aircraft >> enthusiasts. >> If you do re-register (providing your DAR will let you, it has been >> done here in Alaska by the way) you may instruct in your plane up >> until 2010. >> At least this is the way I read the regs, but if you doubt this read >> the FAR in your recent FAR/AIM manual. >> RS ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ From: Don Sweeney <donswen(at)optonline.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lowell Frank, Funk engine Sayre,William G Hi Bill, Good to hear from you. I got to talk to Lowell Frank and had a most interesting conversation. He has a wealth of Pietenpol and Funk information. As Michael Cuy said,he is a definite expert on the Funk.Some points of information were: Regular auto gas can be used. Use 10-40 wt. oil Up to 65 pounds of oil pressure Change the oil 30 minutes after the first run. Install a gas shut-off valve at the wing tank feed. I have a Funk Engine service manual that has all of the specs for the engine; torque values, how to disassemble and reasemble the engine and much more. I can make a copy of it and send it to you. It is about ten pages long. All I need is an address. Don S. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Charging Question In a message dated 8/8/2006 5:21:14 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: Ken, You stated that the FAA requires you to have a transponder if you have an engine driven charging system. This is NOT TRUE. You only need a transponder turned on when flying through specified airspace ie: Class C, B. FYI. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL Dan, That was me that mentioned this portion of the FAA requirements for a transponder. I searched for the FAR, but I can't find it. It was someone on this list that produced that FAR, and that is what stuck in my 51 year old mind. I think it may have been Cy. As I recall, it stated that if a plane is certified with an engine driven electrical system, then it must have a transponder. There is another FAR that calls out when a transponder must be used. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oklahoma Fly-in this weekend In a message dated 8/8/2006 8:42:04 AM Central Standard Time, steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes: This weekend we're having a fly-in/BBQ at O44 (Oscar 44) near Norman, Oklahoma. I don't know of any Pietenpols that will be there other than mine, but I'd sure like to see some. Chuck G.? Jim M.? I know there are a few local builders I haven't met yet. Drive or fly, however you can make it. It'll be a little warm, but we'll still have a good time. I'll provide drinks, & there is a small BBQ restaraunt where we'll have lunch & cool off. Details here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin Steve, I can't make it this weekend, but I just got a flyer in the snail mail that mentioned 'Oklahoma Festival of Flight' - Sept 30 / Oct 1. I may be able to make that one, and then there is the EAA fly-in at Bartlesville OK. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh Pictures, Sportcamper. My Oshkosh equivalent of the Brodhead pages I put up last week is done. Took me forever, but it's pretty nice. http://www.builddiary.net/logs/22 I stopped by the Aerolab pen when I was there, got a couple pictures of the low wing version of the Sportcamper. I get the impression they haven't flown the high wing version yet. They also had an interesting bicycle design there, also very expensive ($1700, and it's not a racing bike). The sportcamper is at least a size bigger than a Pietenpol, seems to be made to a fairly nice standard, but they are trying to sell stuff they haven't built yet (as far as I know.) The Italian designer seemed like a decent guy. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it>
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Subject: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos
>1. As I recall, I put the cross braces in my long fuselage in line with >the uprights. Checking on the standard fuselage I saw this fact in the tailcone, with the notable difference of the last upper cross member. However I'm slightly confused, because if I line them up I have no place to put the gussets for the cross members to, as the vertical member gets in the way of the gusset of the cross member. My understanding is they should be offseted (1") to the opposite side of the gussets of the vertical members. Am I correct in my assumption? And this is said without considering the front of the fuselage. Will go back through the plans this evening. >2. As I said, I made mine 1" wider. My Cabanes are 2-1/2" taller than >plans and I have a circular cutout in the trailing edge of the >centersection like Mike Cuy to make it easier to get in and out of the >rear cockpit (and to improve visibility in turns) Good to know. The later was already considered, and the former is a welcomed confirmation too. Being 6' 3" myself I need some more space to fit in the front seat. >3. I used the Flying and Glider Manual Plans for my wooden V- straight >axle landing gear. I agree, that little drawing on page 17 is terrible, >but it has enough information to make the landing gear. Will go through it again. But if, just by chance, someone else has already gone through it and made better drawings, I'd appreciate to know. It's not that I'm lazy, but I think it's useless to spend time reinventing the wheel over and over. My personal pride and joy is a Volksplane VP1, and it took an amazingly amount of time to "invent" whatever was not included in the plans. With this new construction I'd prefer to rationalize a little more. >4. If you have a chance to visit Oshkosh, you can find suppliers of >surplus parts and can get turnbuckles for about $5 each. I think I got >mine from B&B Aircraft Supplies in Kansas. I'll look and see if I can >find their address for you. I had no chance to come this year, and unfortunately the 2007 edition is too far to consider, unless we postpone the wing assembly that much time which is not feasible. If you can find the address I can try to contact them and arrange a delivery (hopefully). >Where in Italy are you? I was just there on my honeymoon, visiting >Rome, Naples, Venice, and Florence. Beautiful country and very friendly >people. Thank you for your kind words! I'm from Bergamo which is a small city 30 miles east of Milan. Right in the middle of our Great (ahem) Plains, where it's sunny in the summer, foggy in the fall and freezing in the winter . And where most of the airspace is a big class B going down to 1500 feet AGL (I envy you so much). SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it>
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Subject: Re: (almost) new kid on the block looking for infos
>You can use the drawing from the F&G Manual. There are a few things you >should know. The bottom ash blocks will NOT end up parallel with the line of >flight, but rather they will be toed-out and be pointing back directly at the >tail skid plate. I tried in vain to make those blocks somehow be in line with >the slip stream, and ended up throwing away two complete sets, wasting MUCHO >TIME (that's Italian, for lots of time). I will email you some pictures >when I get home to my home computer. They will be of immense help. Dan, Thanks so much for the suggestion. I'll treasure your photos and see if I can elaborate a method to avoid this fact. If I'm successful, I'll report to the list. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I can fly legally, right ?
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Mike, I'm in the same boat (or plane) as you. I checked into this with the EAA through a phone call and they said I was clear. Nothing else to do. So as of this spring I have been operating as a Sport Pilot. Kinda cool! Don E. NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=53719#53719 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2006
From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh Pictures, Sportcamper.
Many apologies, had to change the url for my Oshkosh/Brodhead pages, it's now... www.builddiary.net/plog/21 (Brodhead) www.builddiary.net/plog/22 (Oshkosh) Everything now kosher. Hopefully. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bought a GN-1
Date: Aug 09, 2006
Cool idea Rick. Maybe when Cinda sees the GN-1 fly she will get psyched and finish her Sport Pilot. Skip Cinda + Skip Gadd csfog(at)earthlink.net >husband and wife formation flight to Brodhead. >Rick H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Dan, For years now, I've been under the impression that if a plane has an engine driven charging system, it was required to have a transponder. I posed this question to Cy, and here is his reply: From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Engine Driven Elect. Sys Hi Cy !! I've got a question for you: If an aircraft has an engine driven electrical system, does the FAR's require it to have a transponder ? This discussion came up on the list recently, and I recall someone posting the specific FAR that calls this out. I think it was a couple of years ago that you mentioned this on the Matronics Pietenpol List, but sometimes my memory has some lapse periods... Thank you Chuck Gantzer NX770CG http://nx770cg.com/ The answer is NO... but if you want to fly thru or land at class C, then you not only need a transponder plus an encoder. You sometimes can get a waiver for one airport but it is a hassle. If you don't have an engine driven electrical system then you can wander thru the class C. I got a transponder and encoder as I am based at a Class C airport. I contemplated getting a waiver BUT having a transponder helps prevent jets from backing into me (TCAS). Encoder is cheap ($200)... Transponder is couple thousand with install. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Hi Chuck, Cy was right except when he said "if you don't have an engine driven electrical system then you can wander through the class C". The FAR specifically states that EVERYBODY (except for waiver) has to have an operating mode C transponder to enter the Class C. I think he meant to say you can go around or under the overlying layers, but stay clear of, the Class C airspace. I routinely go within 5 mi. of Madison Wi., but I stay under the overlying layers. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Help- Wheel hubs
Hi Listers, I am now making my Ken Perkins style wheel hubs for the spoked wheels. What diameter holes do I drill so that Buchannan's can put in the spokes? Please help. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: thanks to the group and crepe paper drops---att: Capt.
Gantzer ! Guys-- thank you for your answers to the sport pilot issue. Sounds like local Piet owner/pilot Don E. is in the same situation as I am. I exercised my privileges yesterday afternoon by taking two hours leave and flying in some very nice skies. I took two rolls of crepe paper with me, one red, one blue. (I have a nice selection of them in a box by my Aeroshell engine oil on some shelves in the hangar) Ala The Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rob Busch's state of New York, you climb up, do a traffic check all around and below crumple up about a foot or so of the end of the roll, do some slow flight and chuck the roll over the shoulder of your choice. You throttle up a bit, fly forward in a descent and then make (your choice) a button hook turn around, and hunt for the lazy fluttering streamer of color in the sky. The trick is to catch the crepe paper midway down its length about 1/2 way our on one of you wings. (don't want to dice it up in the prop if you can help it) If you catch the paper it will stretch nicely about 50 feet behind your wing in two nice flowing streams. If you do wing waves the crepe paper flows up and down in beautiful s-live waves. Generally the paper only lasts about 10 minutes at moderate cruise and then breaks away. If you hit the paper too hard initially it will break too. Requires a pretty decent touch but once you get the hang of it you can littler to your hearts content. Mike C. Oh man, the tree huggers are gonna love this post ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: spoke holes
Dan--- you can request various size (they use gauge sizes as I recall) diameter spokes from Buchannan's and you have the choice between steel, chromed steel, stainless, etc. I drilled my holes for the spokes and then used a countersink bit to accept the head of the spoke which has a taper and that helped seat the spokes nicely in the hub. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: spoke holes
Mike, Do you recall what size or gauge you used on your spokes? Dan H. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: spoke holes
Dan-- offhand I don't recall what gauge I ordered but they are approximately 0.17" in diameter give or take. Mike http://www.buchananspokes.com/aboutus.htm We have spokes for most all your wheel needs. The following lists our most popular sets. Please note that stainless spoke kits are commonly listed in different sizes, and with a variety of nipples; either nickel plated steel, chrome plate, or stainless steel. Prepackaged spoke kits cost less than custom made kits, therefore any changes made to the following kits will be priced as custom, rather than pre-packaged. Polishing is available on stainless spoke kits for $51.00. Unless polishing is requested, spoke kits will be shipped unpolished (with exception of Harley special design kits). Use of motorcycle brand names are provided solely for reference. Products appearing in this catalog are not licensed or endorsed by listed motorcycle manufacturers. SS = STAINLESS SPOKES AND STAINLESS NIPPLES SZ = STAINLESS SPKS W/NICKEL PLATED STEEL NIPPLES AFTMKT = AFTERMARKET RIM C = CHROME SPOKES AND NIPPLES SH = STAINLESS SPOKES W/BLUE ZINC PLATED NIPPLES DP D/C = DEEP DROP CENTER ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: spoke holes
Date: Aug 10, 2006
There's a copy of a Buchanan's invoice at: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/wheels1.doc Jim Markle Pryor, OK 214.505.6101 ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spoke holes Dan-- offhand I don't recall what gauge I ordered but they are approximately 0.17" in diameter give or take. Mike http://www.buchananspokes.com/aboutus.htm We have spokes for most all your wheel needs. The following lists our most popular sets. Please note that stainless spoke kits are commonly listed in different sizes, and with a variety of nipples; either nickel plated steel, chrome plate, or stainless steel. Prepackaged spoke kits cost less than custom made kits, therefore any changes made to the following kits will be priced as custom, rather than pre-packaged. Polishing is available on stainless spoke kits for $51.00. Unless polishing is requested, spoke kits will be shipped unpolished (with exception of Harley special design kits). Use of motorcycle brand names are provided solely for reference. Products appearing in this catalog are not licensed or endorsed by listed motorcycle manufacturers. SS = STAINLESS SPOKES AND STAINLESS NIPPLES SZ = STAINLESS SPKS W/NICKEL PLATED STEEL NIPPLES AFTMKT = AFTERMARKET RIM C = CHROME SPOKES AND NIPPLES SH = STAINLESS SPOKES W/BLUE ZINC PLATED NIPPLES DP D/C = DEEP DROP CENTER ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: spoke holes
Jim, Thanks for the link to your invoice. It will help me alot. Dan Helsper ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ply spar question
Date: Aug 10, 2006
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
After looking at costs and options on making spars, I have a question on a built-up ply spar... If I "change the plans" from the original 1" routed or 3/4" solid spars, what documentation is the FAA or a DAR going to want to see to prove that the spars will be equal to or better than the original design. I am contemplating building up with a 1/2" core ply and 1/4" X 1" "caps" glued to the top and bottom face to build up the thickness. The ply will be full depth. For great pictures of a spar like this, see Bob Siebert's pictures on Chris Tracy's web site (www.westcoastpiet.com) - nice site by the way... I know there are others out there with built up spars as well - any issues arise when you had your airworthiness inspections? Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2006
From: Tim Willis <strategyguy536(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Thanks to Piet builders for Brodhead
> I just wanted to thank the guys who flew their Piets into Brodhead, and the guys who tried, but were turned back by weather. > > It was a great time for me, for I had never before seen a Pietenpol actually together. To see that many at one time, and to note and compare all the various differences in finish details, hardware and attachments, cockpits, cowlings, and engines was simply wonderful. Your workmanship, love of details, and pride of ownership, were obvious to all, and inspirational. > > I have a bunch of stuff to do before building, so I can stay married-- e.g., work on the house, yard, vehicles, and finances. However, I plan to start building on 1 Oct and build for at least 4 hours a day until done. It will be pure pleasure. Corky gave me a wonderful start and middle-- what's the saying-- "over halfway there... and 90 percent to go"? I hope to see many of you there in Brodhead next year. > > Tim > timothywillis(at)earthlink.net --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: spoke holes
Jim, I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to the sizing of wheels and tires. I see on the Buchannan's invoice, line item #1, the Sun WM2 (1.85) x 21 rim. OK, the 21 refers to the overall rim diameter right? What does the 1.85 refer to? Is that the measured rim width? Your tires are 3" wide at the widest point correct? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Ply spar question
Dan, That built-up spar seems like it would be plenty strong to me (eyeball engineer). I am wondering how it will come out weight-wise. I went with the full 1" thick and then routed. If I had to do over again I would not do this. What a waste of beautiful spruce that ends up in chips on the floor!! I threw big bags of spruce chips away that day, not to mention an incredible amount of work. How will you splice the 1/2" ply together since you need about 13 1/2 feet per side of a 3-piece wing? The DAR won't say anything about that spar. Besides, you as the builder have complete control of what you use, and you don't have to prove anything to anyone. After all, it's only your neck during the 40 hour fly-off period. I guess they figure that's enough time for a catastrophic wing spar failure to occur (don't mean to scare you). :) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
In a message dated 8/10/2006 4:21:14 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: I think he meant to say you can go around or under the overlying layers, but stay clear of, the Class C airspace. I routinely go within 5 mi. of Madison Wi., but I stay under the overlying layers. Yes, I think that's what he meant, but what about the 30 NM Mode C Veil ? What does it represent ? Chuck G. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: (no subject)
Would one of you please tell me how to unscribe from this list? Thanks Clara Hicks Hixplace(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Charging Question
Chuck, The mode C veil keeps out people like me that have an old airplane that was originally certificated with an engine driven electrical system, but no transponder. If you are an ultralight or Cub or Champ, you can go right through it as if it did not exist. Not fair!! Dan H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Clara, Go to http://www.matronics.com/subscription Once there you will find an area where you can unscribe from this list. Good Luck Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Would one of you please tell me how to unscribe from this list? Thanks Clara Hicks Hixplace(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: spoke holes
Date: Aug 10, 2006
Hi Dan, I think the 1.85 was width. I called the guy at Buchanan's and he gave me all the sizing info. I wanted to go wider than 1.85 and he said to stick with 1.85" for the wheels I wanted. I still wish I had gone wider but I figure that's his business so I had better listen! He was very helpful. I told him what I was using it for and described the Ken Perkins hubs. He filled in all the blanks for me. And yes, the tires are about 3" wide. And with air, they are almost exactly 26" tall. Jim in Pryor, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spoke holes Jim, I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to the sizing of wheels and tires. I see on the Buchannan's invoice, line item #1, the Sun WM2 (1.85) x 21 rim. OK, the 21 refers to the overall rim diameter right? What does the 1.85 refer to? Is that the measured rim width? Your tires are 3" wide at the widest point correct? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 11, 2006
Subject: Re: thanks to the group and crepe paper drops---att: Capt.
Ga... In a message dated 8/10/2006 7:54:59 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes: Ala The Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Rob Busch's state of New York, you climb up, do a traffic check all around and below crumple up about a foot or so of the end of the roll, do some slow flight and chuck the roll over the shoulder of your choice. You throttle up a bit, fly forward in a descent and then make (your choice) a button hook turn around, and hunt for the lazy fluttering streamer of color in the sky. The trick is to catch the crepe paper midway down its length about 1/2 way our on one of you wings. (don't want to dice it up in the prop if you can help it) If you catch the paper it will stretch nicely about 50 feet behind your wing in two nice flowing streams. If you do wing waves the crepe paper flows up and down in beautiful s-live waves. Generally the paper only lasts about 10 minutes at moderate cruise and then breaks away. If you hit the paper too hard initially it will break too. Requires a pretty decent touch but once you get the hang of it you can littler to your hearts content. Mike C. Oh man, the tree huggers are gonna love this post Hey Mikee !! Evidently, like building a Pietenpol, there is more ways than one to do a Paper Cut !! I use the cheap, thin, toilet paper that costs about 4 or 5 bucks for about a dozen rolls, or so. That's probably why I've never been able to get it to catch a wing, without breaking it. However, sometimes I return to the field with little pieces of T.P. hanging on various places on the airframe !! The challenging part is finding that thin little wisp of paper, after doing the turn around. I missed it by a long shot, the first 4 or 5 times I tried. The wa y I do it now, is to climb high enough to make two passes at it, about 3000' agl , and use pattern altitude as my hard deck. Two times I have had double cuts !! I hold the T. P. roll in my left hand (keeping right hand on the stick), and be sure that the rolling twitch of the wrist will Unroll the paper. One time I had it wrong, and the roll of T. P. failed to unroll, and who knows.. .it may have bounced off of the hood of one of those tree huggers !! Not to fea r though...this stuff is Bio-Degradable. I now extend my arm over the side of the longeron for the un-rolling release, because one time while tossing it o ver the side, I bumped the windshield, and it bounced off the flying wires on th e tail, and I could feel the BUMP through the stick. So, I line up on a road or something and make a mental note of compass heading and an object on tera firma, pull power to about 1600 rpm, get 'er slowed down to MCA (Minimum Controllable Airspeed), after release I pull power even farther and make a d escending Right turn, changing heading about 20=BA or so. Then steep roll Left, continuing the steep decent. At this point, the wing blanks out the visual on the target, so I rely on heading change, and the object on the surface. After t he 180=BA change in direction, start searching the horizon for the thin little target out in the distance. It usually presents itself about 20=BA off the nose, a nd at half mile. Once it is sighted, it is easy enough to get a HIT !! It's really cool to watch it grow very gradually at first, then the last several hundred feet away, it grows bigger at a high rate, and BAM...Got it !! Do a nother turn around, and go for a second HIT !! It's even more fun to do this with a passenger on board, and with the intercom I now have, we sound like Maverick & Goose !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: latex test square
Date: Aug 11, 2006
Hey, I don't remember who posted about his latex test square of ceconite, but I had a thought. The post said he put two coats of butyrate then the latex. Just remember on the actual plane, that butyrate doesn't stick to ceconite. You have to use some coats of nitrate first, then your butyrate will stick to the nitrate. Shouldn't matter on a test, but WILL matter on the real deal. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Website Listing
Date: Aug 11, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Piet builder and flyer sites have been invaluable to me in the building process. I would like to compile a listing of all the sites, then cut and paste on one page to send to the email list for the archives. Would all Piet website owners' email me their name and site address in the following format: www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/> Jack Textor Email to: jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com When I get it compiled I will send to the list. Also, I added some pictures from Brodhead, Oshkosh and some building shots to my site www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/> . Brodhead and Oshkosh are at the bottom of Miscellaneous and the building shots are under the Piet Project page. Thanks to all, happy Friday! Jack Textor Des Moines ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ply spar question
Date: Aug 11, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Dan, I'm using the built-up method. 9mm 7 ply marine ply for the web and 5/16 x 1+ caps of Douglas fir. You can see pictures at my site www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/> . Jack Textor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: latex test square (long)
Hello Douwe and all, Something that is missing here is that Nothing will "glue" to the Dacron (Ceconite) how it holds on is by mechanical "grab" around the fiber, so the Latex can be painted direct to the Dacron and it will hold forever, (once dried completly). This is first hand experience, I had to make a hole (inspection window) in my Ladder Pou to check inside the wing. It was painted 3 years ago and looks like new. Well, my first thought was just to wipe the old latex down to the cloth around the patch area to (contact) glue the patch. For my surprise, niether the Thinner or the Acetone will disolve the latex!!! What I did was to sand the glueing area with coars sanding paper to get the glue to grab (without touching the fibers). iron the patch as normal procedure, then paint the latex (left over can and still in good condition 3 years later, just well shaken), 3 hands in 90 degrees strokes. 5 days later, you can hardly notice where the patch is. This is my second experience with Latex, will never use anything else. You want some gloss? just give a last hand of water based poliuretane clear barnish and look like (or better than) the Big Bucks paint... This is real first hand experience, but you can spend your money in any covering procedure you wish :-) Note: I use the "Generic" inexpensive Dacron from Spruce also... Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. "La Bamba" Ladder Pou. Douwe Blumberg wrote: Hey, I don't remember who posted about his latex test square of ceconite, but I had a thought. The post said he put two coats of butyrate then the latex. Just remember on the actual plane, that butyrate doesn't stick to ceconite. You have to use some coats of nitrate first, then your butyrate will stick to the nitrate. Shouldn't matter on a test, but WILL matter on the real deal. Douwe --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: latex test square (long)
Date: Aug 11, 2006
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Hi all, I'm flying my piet that is starting its tenth year of life under latex finish. I've repaired it as well. I used the high gloss Sherwin Williams and don't regret it. Check the archives for the process I used. Nice thing is, two years ago when I needed to repair a wingtip, I marched down to the local paint store and they mixed up a quart of the same color and you can't tell where the repair is. An iron at about 250 will roll the old latex off exposing the underlying fabric nicely. No sanding. Very cool. Steve E ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex test square (long) Hello Douwe and all, Something that is missing here is that Nothing will "glue" to the Dacron (Ceconite) how it holds on is by mechanical "grab" around the fiber, so the Latex can be painted direct to the Dacron and it will hold forever, (once dried completly). This is first hand experience, I had to make a hole (inspection window) in my Ladder Pou to check inside the wing. It was painted 3 years ago and looks like new. Well, my first thought was just to wipe the old latex down to the cloth around the patch area to (contact) glue the patch. For my surprise, niether the Thinner or the Acetone will disolve the latex!!! What I did was to sand the glueing area with coars sanding paper to get the glue to grab (without touching the fibers). iron the patch as normal procedure, then paint the latex (left over can and still in good condition 3 years later, just well shaken), 3 hands in 90 degrees strokes. 5 days later, you can hardly notice where the patch is. This is my second experience with Latex, will never use anything else. You want some gloss? just give a last hand of water based poliuretane clear barnish and look like (or better than) the Big Bucks paint... This is real first hand experience, but you can spend your money in any covering procedure you wish :-) Note: I use the "Generic" inexpensive Dacron from Spruce also... Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. "La Bamba" Ladder Pou. Douwe Blumberg wrote: Hey, I don't remember who posted about his latex test square of ceconite, but I had a thought. The post said he put two coats of butyrate then the latex. Just remember on the actual plane, that butyrate doesn't stick to ceconite. You have to use some coats of nitrate first, then your butyrate will stick to the nitrate. Shouldn't matter on a test, but WILL matter on the real deal. Douwe ________________________________ rates. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com /evt=39663/*http:/voice.yahoo.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Toiletpapering and spoke wheels
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 11, 2006
Mike and Chuck, Thanks for the 'how to's' of toiletpapering! I was just driving home on this beautiful Friday afternoon thinking about getting a flight in tonight. It's been about 20 years since I've done the other kind of 'TPing' and thought maybe it's time to try this new twist on it. With those excellent instructions I just need to raid the bathroom and I'll be on my way! When I made my spoke wheels I talked to Buchannon's before I made anything. They are very good to talk to and will gladly give you sizes and talk airplanes. You don't have to say they are for a go-cart or anything like that. Really know what they are doing. Don E. NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=54227#54227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it>
Date: Aug 12, 2006
Subject: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement
(long) Hello to everybody! First of all, a big THANK YOU to the list for the response to the first bunch of questions! I collected and stored all the photos and documents you guys provided, and I especially thank Chris Tracy who provided the link to his website and to Chris Bobka's document about wheel axles placement. Again, thanks! Well, I decided to fire up the CAD and try to assemble a virtual Piet with all the modifications/clarifications available so far. Not to redesign the Piet itself but just to be a quick and clean method to check dimensions and placements. And here is, obviously, where confusion begins. :-( Before getting into the hang of it, I want to explain a couple of points which form the base for the whole discussion: 1) Our Piet is not going to enjoy any of the three de-facto "standard" powerplants (Ford Model A, Corvair or Continental A65-8) simply because none is available to us in Europe (even A65-8 are rarer than hen's teeth these days, in spite of their past wide availability here). Therefore, the powerplant will have to be something quite different, probabily derived from a modern gas/diesel auto engine or something like that. When time comes, appropriate calculations will be made for engine placement, in order to obtain the correct Center of Gravity range. I'm familiar with this procedure as I've already done it in the past for two other airplanes, and they then checked correctly on the scales. 2) Because of the aforementioned point, I decided to reference all my work to the original 1933 Improved Plans i.e. considering the Piet as having the wing position determined by the cabane struts at right angles with the upper longeron. That is, with the important change of the 172 3/8" long fuselage (because we believe we need the increased tail arm as we assume a longer nose). As already said, that's where confusion begins, because after looking at all the photos I could see, reading Chris Bobka's comments, and even checking the Weight and Balance sheet provided by Don Pietenpol, I saw that the wing position can be quite different from the original one, and not always the same. This is not very good from an engineering standpoint, because every kind of W&B calculation assumes a CG range with respect to the airplane Center of Lift, and not the other way around. Not to mention the fact that, as wing placement change, so does the tail arm length, which should be something to be taken very seriously and not changed all too easily. Chris Bobka's document is fine in that it works out a well-weighed logical conclusion from a huge amount of data, but it does NOT mention the WING anywhere. However, let's start working on BOTH fuselages (standard and long) using some known data: 1) Standard fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 17" 2) Long fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 21" 3) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, std fuselage: 6.8" 4) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, long fuselage: 8.8" 5) Most rearward CG position (Don Pietenpol): 33% or 20" from LE Okay, working out the math makes for TWO DIFFERENT distances between wheel axle and most rearward C of G position for the two fuselages: 7.8" for the LONG fuselage, and 9.8" for the STANDARD fuselage. Logic says that the distance should be the same for both fuselages, so obviously one of them is not correct. My own understanding says 7.8" is way too little. When the Piet is sitting without pilots and with empty wing tank, the CG ought to be very close to its most FORWARD position, which is probabily AHEAD of the wheel axle in level flight, meaning the fuselage will barely stand on the tailwheel (if it has not already tipped over). 9.8" does not look really good either, but it's the closest (by 1/2" if I'm not mistaken) to the measurements on the Improved 1933 Plans. Again, I state that the wing is going to be exactly where shown on the plans, and the correct placement of the powerplant will bring the CG range within the correct limits. And none of the measurements for placing Ford/Corvair/Continental engines will apply, as the powerplant will NOT be either one of these. So, where should I place my wheel axles? All the Pieters out there, where is YOUR wheel axle and YOUR wing leading edge with respect to the firewall, and HOW does your Piet behave during landing and on the ground? Thanks in advance for the answers. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: latex test square (long)
Good idea,about the ironing to remove it, Will try it next time I need a repair... Hope not needed. Is amazing how it keeps the color over the years and how easy is to repair and repaint. When I decided to use it was an experiment, making my mind to recover in a couple of years. Now I am sure will last more than 10 years... Thanks a lot. for the tip. Saludos Gary Gower. Steve Eldredge wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Hi all, Im flying my piet that is starting its tenth year of life under latex finish. Ive repaired it as well. I used the high gloss Sherwin Williams and dont regret it. Check the archives for the process I used. Nice thing is, two years ago when I needed to repair a wingtip, I marched down to the local paint store and they mixed up a quart of the same color and you cant tell where the repair is. An iron at about 250 will roll the old latex off exposing the underlying fabric nicely. No sanding. Very cool. Steve E --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Gower Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:00 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex test square (long) Hello Douwe and all, Something that is missing here is that Nothing will "glue" to the Dacron (Ceconite) how it holds on is by mechanical "grab" around the fiber, so the Latex can be painted direct to the Dacron and it will hold forever, (once dried completly). This is first hand experience, I had to make a hole (inspection window) in my Ladder Pou to check inside the wing. It was painted 3 years ago and looks like new. Well, my first thought was just to wipe the old latex down to the cloth around the patch area to (contact) glue the patch. For my surprise, niether the Thinner or the Acetone will disolve the latex!!! What I did was to sand the glueing area with coars sanding paper to get the glue to grab (without touching the fibers). iron the patch as normal procedure, then paint the latex (left over can and still in good condition 3 years later, just well shaken), 3 hands in 90 degrees strokes. 5 days later, you can hardly notice where the patch is. This is my second experience with Latex, will never use anything else. You want some gloss? just give a last hand of water based poliuretane clear barnish and look like (or better than) the Big Bucks paint... This is real first hand experience, but you can spend your money in any covering procedure you wish :-) Note: I use the "Generic" inexpensive Dacron from Spruce also... Saludos Gary Gower Flying from Chapala, Mexico. "La Bamba" Ladder Pou. Douwe Blumberg wrote: Hey, I don't remember who posted about his latex test square of ceconite, but I had a thought. The post said he put two coats of butyrate then the latex. Just remember on the actual plane, that butyrate doesn't stick to ceconite. You have to use some coats of nitrate first, then your butyrate will stick to the nitrate. Shouldn't matter on a test, but WILL matter on the real deal. Douwe --------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement
(long)
Date: Aug 12, 2006
NX18235 has the wing LE 13.5 inches aft of the firewall. The axle is 20 inches aft of the firewall. Ground handling is superb for a skid equipped brakeless aircraft. Greg Cardinal > So, where should I place my wheel axles? > > All the Pieters out there, where is YOUR wheel axle and YOUR wing > leading edge with respect to the firewall, and HOW does your Piet > behave during landing and on the ground? > > Thanks in advance for the answers. > > SeeYa! > > Andrea Vavassori > > Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA > EAA #348037 > FCAP I-146 > Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement
(long)
Date: Aug 12, 2006
I would ask that everyone that replies gives fuselage and gear type, please. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrea Vavassori<mailto:andrea(at)modelberg.it> To: pietenpol discussion list Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement (long) > Hello to everybody! First of all, a big THANK YOU to the list for the response to the first bunch of questions! I collected and stored all the photos and documents you guys provided, and I especially thank Chris Tracy who provided the link to his website and to Chris Bobka's document about wheel axles placement. Again, thanks! Well, I decided to fire up the CAD and try to assemble a virtual Piet with all the modifications/clarifications available so far. Not to redesign the Piet itself but just to be a quick and clean method to check dimensions and placements. And here is, obviously, where confusion begins. :-( Before getting into the hang of it, I want to explain a couple of points which form the base for the whole discussion: 1) Our Piet is not going to enjoy any of the three de-facto "standard" powerplants (Ford Model A, Corvair or Continental A65-8) simply because none is available to us in Europe (even A65-8 are rarer than hen's teeth these days, in spite of their past wide availability here). Therefore, the powerplant will have to be something quite different, probabily derived from a modern gas/diesel auto engine or something like that. When time comes, appropriate calculations will be made for engine placement, in order to obtain the correct Center of Gravity range. I'm familiar with this procedure as I've already done it in the past for two other airplanes, and they then checked correctly on the scales. 2) Because of the aforementioned point, I decided to reference all my work to the original 1933 Improved Plans i.e. considering the Piet as having the wing position determined by the cabane struts at right angles with the upper longeron. That is, with the important change of the 172 3/8" long fuselage (because we believe we need the increased tail arm as we assume a longer nose). As already said, that's where confusion begins, because after looking at all the photos I could see, reading Chris Bobka's comments, and even checking the Weight and Balance sheet provided by Don Pietenpol, I saw that the wing position can be quite different from the original one, and not always the same. This is not very good from an engineering standpoint, because every kind of W&B calculation assumes a CG range with respect to the airplane Center of Lift, and not the other way around. Not to mention the fact that, as wing placement change, so does the tail arm length, which should be something to be taken very seriously and not changed all too easily. Chris Bobka's document is fine in that it works out a well-weighed logical conclusion from a huge amount of data, but it does NOT mention the WING anywhere. However, let's start working on BOTH fuselages (standard and long) using some known data: 1) Standard fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 17" 2) Long fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 21" 3) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, std fuselage: 6.8" 4) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, long fuselage: 8.8" 5) Most rearward CG position (Don Pietenpol): 33% or 20" from LE Okay, working out the math makes for TWO DIFFERENT distances between wheel axle and most rearward C of G position for the two fuselages: 7.8" for the LONG fuselage, and 9.8" for the STANDARD fuselage. Logic says that the distance should be the same for both fuselages, so obviously one of them is not correct. My own understanding says 7.8" is way too little. When the Piet is sitting without pilots and with empty wing tank, the CG ought to be very close to its most FORWARD position, which is probabily AHEAD of the wheel axle in level flight, meaning the fuselage will barely stand on the tailwheel (if it has not already tipped over). 9.8" does not look really good either, but it's the closest (by 1/2" if I'm not mistaken) to the measurements on the Improved 1933 Plans. Again, I state that the wing is going to be exactly where shown on the plans, and the correct placement of the powerplant will bring the CG range within the correct limits. And none of the measurements for placing Ford/Corvair/Continental engines will apply, as the powerplant will NOT be either one of these. So, where should I place my wheel axles? All the Pieters out there, where is YOUR wheel axle and YOUR wing leading edge with respect to the firewall, and HOW does your Piet behave during landing and on the ground? Thanks in advance for the answers. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it> ========================= ========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ========================= ========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement
... In a message dated 8/12/2006 2:25:11 AM Central Standard Time, andrea(at)modelberg.it writes: 3) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, std fuselage: 6.8" Andrea, Drawing No. 1 (Improved 1933 plans) shows the wing leading edge 7.5" behind the firewall. The Pietenpol is a forgiving design, in the dimensions of the final product, evidenced by the wide variety of Flying airplanes out there. It is also claimed to have had a wider variety of engines, than Any Other Airplane in History !! { All the Pieters out there, where is YOUR wheel axle and YOUR wing leading edge with respect to the firewall, and HOW does your Piet behave during landing and on the ground? } NX770CG has a plans built short fuselage, with the axle 17" aft of the firewall. She has gone through many retrofits during 'er short life of 4 + years (first certified 1/8/02). When first built, she had a Model A engine with plans dimensions for the engine mount, tail skid, no brakes, and the cabanes were vertical. I taxied 'er quite a bit in this configuration, however, with my 210 lbs weight, the C. of G. was too far aft for safe flight. It was very easy to do a turnaround, almost pivoting on one wheel (remember no brakes). I moved the wing back 3 1/2" from vertical, and added 14 lb ballast (cast from lead and mounted to the bellhousing flange for the transmission), and got the C. of G. within safe limits. This retrofit caused the ground handling to change a little bit, in that I couldn't do quite as quick turnaround. Doug Bryant did the first 3 flights in this configuration, and I logged 23 hours in this configuration, but we couldn't get that pesky gremlin out of the Model A engine - which caused Three deadstick landings. I wrestled with that engine the entire year of '02, so the first 6 months of '03 was spent retrofitting the firewall forward to accept a Continental A65 - 8 engine. In order to maintain the safe C. of G. range (15" to 20" aft of the leading edge), I built the engine mount 8" longer than the Continental engine mount plans, but used the next size wall thickness and same O.D. for the tubing. The cabanes are still 3 1/2" aft of vertical. The ground handling did not change, but the empty weight was reduced by 60 lbs, and the power was almost doubled. Needless to say, this was a Very significant improvement in takeoff, climb and reliability. I haven't had ANY problems with this Continental engine, and I truly LOVE that engine !! Before flying to Brodhead and Oshkosh in '03, I added brakes, but not a tailwheel, and finished flying the required 40 + hours of the test period. Without brakes, it was very difficult to taxi on hard surface, but handled fine in the grass. I thought I could steer with the brakes / tail skid after landing on hard surface, but this proved to be WRONG !! During that cross country flight, I ran off the hard surface runway at two different airports. I could easily blame that on the stiff crosswind, and when I tried to steer with the brakes, the tail came up abruptly, and I almost lost it both times...just let 'er go off the runway between the runway edge lights. Before my America Tour '04, I added a tailwheel, and changed out the bunji struts, for spring struts. That was a 3100 mile cross country trip !! No problems with the ship, and the weather was great. She has been in this configuration for the past two years, and I'm having a Blast with 'er !! Chuck G. NX770CG Wichita, KS
http://nx770cg.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2006
From: Michael D Cuy <Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov>
Subject: fuse survey
CUY NX48MC 1933 Improved Fuselage (shorter than the 1966 by about 9.5 inches) Gear type wood/straight axle. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: fuse survey
Date: Aug 12, 2006
Andrea had asked for a axle/wing placement survey, and the first response gave those figures without mentioning which fuselage or gear types, which makes all of the difference in the world. Likewise, wink wink, the fuselage and gear type does not do much without the axle/wing placement info . . . Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy<mailto:Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse survey > CUY NX48MC 1933 Improved Fuselage (shorter than the 1966 by about 9.5 inches) Gear type wood/straight axle. ========================= ========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== ========================= ========== http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ========================= ========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it>
Date: Aug 12, 2006
Subject: Re: fuse survey
>Andrea had asked for a axle/wing placement survey, and the first response gave those figures without mentioning which fuselage or gear types, which makes all of the difference in the world. Likewise, wink wink, the fuselage and gear type does not do much without the axle/wing placement info . . . Gene, Thanks so much for pointing that out. In fact I forgot to ask the fuselage type in the first istance. However, It's not absolutely necessary to know the gear type because axle distance from firewall will suffice for doing the maths. SeeYa! Andrea Vavassori Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA EAA #348037 FCAP I-146 Homepage:
http://andrea.modelberg.it ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: fuse survey
Date: Aug 12, 2006
Excellent clarification Gene. NX18235 is a long fuselage with Jenny style gear. Wing LE is 13.5 inches aft of the firewall. Axle is 20 inches aft of the firewall. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuse survey Andrea had asked for a axle/wing placement survey, and the first response gave those figures without mentioning which fuselage or gear types, which makes all of the difference in the world. Likewise, wink wink, the fuselage and gear type does not do much without the axle/wing placement info . . . Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael D Cuy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuse survey CUY NX48MC 1933 Improved Fuselage (shorter than the 1966 by about 9.5 inches) Gear type wood/straight ========================= nbsp; Features Subscriptions http://www.mat ========================= ========================= p; available via title=http://forums.matronics.com/ ========================= nbsp; Email List title=http://wiki.matronics.com/ ========================= ========================= nbsp; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========================= ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Date: Aug 12, 2006
Happy weekend Pieters.....I have two questions 1. ACS has a complete overhaul kit for my Marvel Schebler MA3PA carb for $207.00 is that the going price or is there someplace else that has better prices. I tried Fresno air parts and they don't carry them...... 2. The total thickness of my prop flange, Prop and crush plate measure within .001" of exactly 4". It amazes me that my new Tennessee prop's hub is that close to perfectly 3 1/2". Prop bolts are available in 4" grip length. Sooo should I go with a 4" grip length bolt or should I go the next step down which would be 3 7/8". I've never dealt with a wood prop before. everyone says they compress some under the pressure from the bolts but I have no idea how much to expect and I don't want to end up with excessive washers under the nuts. my guess is that 3 7/8" would be too short but prop bolts are too expensive to guess at. Thanks in advance and enjoy your weekend....Ed G in Florida starting to see a faint light in the tunnel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement
(long)
Date: Aug 12, 2006
I'll aswer as much as I can remember here at home. I have the short Fuse, NX2RN. My wing is back 4.5" from vertical. I don't recomend this as it isn't the easiest getting in and out of rear cockpit. I also had to add a 25 lb battery and 4 gal fuel in the nose to get proper CG. Axle is 19" aft of firewall. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Vavassori" <andrea(at)modelberg.it> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 5:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage length, wing placement and wheel axle placement (long) > > > Hello to everybody! > > First of all, a big THANK YOU to the list for the response to the first > bunch of questions! I collected and stored all the photos and documents > you guys provided, and I especially thank Chris Tracy who provided the > link to his website and to Chris Bobka's document about wheel axles > placement. Again, thanks! > > Well, I decided to fire up the CAD and try to assemble a virtual Piet > with all the modifications/clarifications available so far. Not to > redesign the Piet itself but just to be a quick and clean method to > check dimensions and placements. And here is, obviously, where > confusion begins. :-( > > Before getting into the hang of it, I want to explain a couple of > points which form the base for the whole discussion: > > 1) Our Piet is not going to enjoy any of the three de-facto "standard" > powerplants (Ford Model A, Corvair or Continental A65-8) simply because > none is available to us in Europe (even A65-8 are rarer than hen's > teeth these days, in spite of their past wide availability here). > Therefore, the powerplant will have to be something quite different, > probabily derived from a modern gas/diesel auto engine or something > like that. When time comes, appropriate calculations will be made for > engine placement, in order to obtain the correct Center of Gravity > range. I'm familiar with this procedure as I've already done it in the > past for two other airplanes, and they then checked correctly on the > scales. > > 2) Because of the aforementioned point, I decided to reference all my > work to the original 1933 Improved Plans i.e. considering the Piet as > having the wing position determined by the cabane struts at right > angles with the upper longeron. That is, with the important change of > the 172 3/8" long fuselage (because we believe we need the increased > tail arm as we assume a longer nose). > > As already said, that's where confusion begins, because after looking > at all the photos I could see, reading Chris Bobka's comments, and even > checking the Weight and Balance sheet provided by Don Pietenpol, I saw > that the wing position can be quite different from the original one, > and not always the same. This is not very good from an engineering > standpoint, because every kind of W&B calculation assumes a CG range > with respect to the airplane Center of Lift, and not the other way > around. Not to mention the fact that, as wing placement change, so does > the tail arm length, which should be something to be taken very > seriously and not changed all too easily. > > Chris Bobka's document is fine in that it works out a well-weighed > logical conclusion from a huge amount of data, but it does NOT mention > the WING anywhere. However, let's start working on BOTH fuselages > (standard and long) using some known data: > > 1) Standard fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 17" > 2) Long fuselage: Bobka's axle distance from firewall: 21" > 3) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, std fuselage: 6.8" > 4) Distance between firewall and wing leading edge, long fuselage: 8.8" > 5) Most rearward CG position (Don Pietenpol): 33% or 20" from LE > > Okay, working out the math makes for TWO DIFFERENT distances between > wheel axle and most rearward C of G position for the two fuselages: > 7.8" for the LONG fuselage, and 9.8" for the STANDARD fuselage. > > Logic says that the distance should be the same for both fuselages, so > obviously one of them is not correct. > > My own understanding says 7.8" is way too little. When the Piet is > sitting without pilots and with empty wing tank, the CG ought to be > very close to its most FORWARD position, which is probabily AHEAD of > the wheel axle in level flight, meaning the fuselage will barely stand > on the tailwheel (if it has not already tipped over). 9.8" does not > look really good either, but it's the closest (by 1/2" if I'm not > mistaken) to the measurements on the Improved 1933 Plans. > > Again, I state that the wing is going to be exactly where shown on the > plans, and the correct placement of the powerplant will bring the CG > range within the correct limits. And none of the measurements for > placing Ford/Corvair/Continental engines will apply, as the powerplant > will NOT be either one of these. > > So, where should I place my wheel axles? > > All the Pieters out there, where is YOUR wheel axle and YOUR wing > leading edge with respect to the firewall, and HOW does your Piet > behave during landing and on the ground? > > Thanks in advance for the answers. > > SeeYa! > > Andrea Vavassori > > Volksplane VP-1 I-BYRA > EAA #348037 > FCAP I-146 > Homepage: http://andrea.modelberg.it > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wood Gear and "Deck Angle"
Date: Aug 13, 2006
Seeing as we are talking about the wood landing gear, in the past it has been said to use 12 to 13 degrees as the "deck angle", that is the slope of the upper longerons when the plane is on all three wheels. Is this the correct angle? Mike Cuy, Jack Phillips, anyone with wood gear and a tail wheel, did you make the gear taller so you could get the "deck angle" of 12 degrees when you added a tailwheel. Based on a sketch I made tonight, I don't see how you could have done it (added the height of a wheel) without making the main gear taller to compensate. I get slightly less then 7 1/2 inches between the bottom of the fuselage and ground (where the wheel would be). I'm trying to use the plans A frame and coil spring design. Perhaps this is a good reason to use the leaf spring design like Mike did. I guess this question could be for anyone who added a tailwheel as it's more of a skid vs. tailwheel problem. So, do I need to add height to the gear when I add the tailwheel? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 13, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: had my BFR today
Just "renewed" today on a Cub. I remember when I first flew the Cub (about 10 years ago) how strange it felt, and how hard to get the flare right, and how hard to see. Now with 4 years in the Pietenpol, flying the Cub is so much easier than the Piet. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL PS Woke up to 46f in northern NJ, In August no less. Go figure. "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D.Reid" <dreidjax(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: had my BFR today
Date: Aug 13, 2006
Hiya Walt, Congrats on the Cub. Ya just cant beat a nice flying Cub. I walked out of the house this morning to 74F. at 11:30am it's still only 78F. I just dont know how to act! Thats about 10-12 degs below what it usually is by this time of day. I suffered a heat stroke a year ago today up in Savannah, GA and spent 3 days in the hospital. It's true what they say, that after a heat stroke your tolorance to heat is greatly diminished....or I'm getting older. Probably a little of both. I've been in Florida almost all of my 53 years but the last couple of years the summer WX and humidity has really been working on me. I'm ready for some cooler WX. Have fun in the cub! Dave....Down in Florida ----- Original Messa ge ----- From: walt evans To: piet list Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: had my BFR today Just "renewed" today on a Cub. I remember when I first flew the Cub (about 10 years ago) how strange it felt, and how hard to get the flare right, and how hard to see. Now with 4 years in the Pietenpol, flying the Cub is so much easier than the Piet. Ain't Life Grand! walt evans NX140DL PS Woke up to 46f in northern NJ, In August no less. Go figure. "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wood Gear and "Deck Angle"
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Aug 13, 2006
Chris, I have a fairly high deck angle of about 15 degrees. I have steel gear with spoke wheels that are about 26" tall (19" rims). I really like the high angle. The runway is totally blind in the flare but when I land 3-point it is all done flying for sure. I've learned the trick to getting no-bounce landings is to definately have the tail at the ground when the mains are even though it seems to be a very high angle. I do know that Frank Pavliga lengthened his wood gear somewhat to get a more 'correct angle'. This is because the "Flying and


July 31, 2006 - August 13, 2006

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fg