Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fl
November 08, 2006 - November 27, 2006
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| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution |
Yet! :-)
If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't
yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like
funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively
sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip
out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade
of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-)
You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests
messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox!
Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to
implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such
a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept
putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put
the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working
system!
Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your
individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables
me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site
like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection
and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running
and the air conditioner powered up.
Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly
ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand
the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet
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I'm pretty sure you don't either.
If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!!
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Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine mount jig |
Ken,
Look at the drawing, the offset is in there
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: engine mount jig
Just a thought about the jig....Knowing the Ercoupe and its canted
down and away engine mount to reduce p-factor...has anyone created an
engine mount with this in mind as it works very well in the Ercoupe
design? Do not know of the total amount of downward
canting......Again...just a thought..
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
I forgot to mention how I worked out the jig for the VW engine mount
in my
"Flying Squirrel" (not flying yet though). It was actually very
enjoyable
to build the jig because I knew goofs wouldn't matter much; I could
re-drill
or re-cut anything since it was just for the jig. It was a nice
Saturday
job to build the jig.
I started out with a piece of scrap sheet metal (ductwork) measured
and cut
to the exact shape of the firewall, then mounted it to a piece of
heavy
plywood with some 2x4 back framing. Scrounge hardware mounted the
sheet
metal to the plywood, then I carefully located where the engine
mount points
would be. I had the four "spool" pieces that would form the four
corners of
the mount and I bolted those to the firewall jig with hardware store
bolts.
I mounted this firewall jig to a 2x4 frame that also supported the
engine
with some wood framing, in its desired relationship to the firewall.
I also
put this frame on casters to make it easy to move around, but that's
just
gravy. By the way, pictures of this are the first few at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/engine/engine.html and the pictures will
tell the
whole story.
I took this to my friend Jeff Sterling, who then welded the engine
mount
tubing together and it didn't matter if the plywood or
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Motor mount question |
While we are on the topic of CG range, their seems to be a difference of
opinion on the forward max CG point, everybody seems to agree on the rear at
20" aft of the leading edge or 33%. I can't find a number on the plans for
the forward CG but several posts in the archives mention 15" aft of LE or
25%. Going though the Bengelis books I have seen 16% (which would be 9.5")
as a typical number, and most important in Bill Rewey's Piet guidelines on
CG he mentions that 9.5" is the forward limit.
Question is has anyone actually flow a Piet with the CG anywhere near 9.5"
aft of LE?
Rick
On 11/7/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2006 9:14:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com writes:
>
> I am building the "standard" fuselage. I weigh 170 and 6'2 thus I made
> mine a single seater so I have some legroom. People make it sound so
> simple when they talk about "moving the wing back" but I was thinking it
> couldn't be so simple unless they know something I don't. Thank you for
> your explanation! Am I correct in thinking you can just move the engine
> out farther to get the correct CG? (and leave the wing where it is) Of
> course the nose might get to be a bit LOOOOOOOOONG!
>
> Dave,
> Moving the wing back is a unique feature of the Pietenpol, and really
> isn't that difficult to do, but requires a couple of new cables if you
> already had the wing position nailed down. Moving the engine out farther
> forward does the same thing as moving the wing back - as far as the C of G
> is concerned. However, the farther forward the engine is, the more it
> affects the handling of the plane coming out of a slip.
> I built the 'Short' fuselage, now with a Continental A65 engine, and I
> weight 210 lbs. I moved the engine forward a whopping 8" (increased the
> wall thickness of the steel tubes), as well as moved the wing back from
> vertical 3 1/2". It does give the plane a 'Long Nose' look, but with my
> weight there is no way I can get too far aft on the C of G, even with Zero
> Fuel the C of G is just at the aft limit. Us 'fat boys' just gotta do what
> we gotta do !! With the rudder authority of the Piet, I have no
> problem coming out of a slip. You can see lots of pictures of my plane on
> my web site, as well as the entire C of G calculations under the 'Operations
> Manual' page.
> http://nx770cg.com/
>
> Chuck G.
> NX770CG
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | engine mount jig |
Yes, the A65 engine mount in 41CC is built per the Pietenpol plans with a
bit of offset. If you have the supplemental engine mount drawing from
Pietenpol, you'll note slight offset for it.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation... |
Dear Listers,
A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution
this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday.
I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically
as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal
AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics
List subscription.
If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are
subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell
that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address
instead of the List email.
I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy
way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is
ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the
same. Otherwise, everything works great.
If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't
match, please drop me an email at " info(at)matronics.com " (do not reply to this
message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually
update the records so that things will work as advertised.
Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-)
To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administration
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motor mount question |
In a message dated 11/8/2006 8:10:20 AM Central Standard Time,
at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes:
Question is has anyone actually flow a Piet with the CG anywhere near 9.5"
aft of LE?
Rick,
Bernard called out to maintain the C of G between 1/4 to 1/3 of the airfoil,
which amounts to between 15" and 20" behind the Leading Edge. I seriously
doubt that anyone anywhere in history of the Pietenpol has been able to have
flown the plane with the CG that far forward.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Boy, this list is quiet! Guess I'll ask a question for those of you who use
the windshield washer pump approach on your smoke system. I think Chuck
"Baby Oil" Gantzer uses a portable battery or a rechargeable battery to
power the 12V setup on Seven Zero Charlie Golf.
My question is, how long will the battery operate the windshield washer pump
before requiring a recharge? Once per flight? Several flights (tankfuls)?
And is the battery a motorcycle type or dry type?
Smoke on!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition:
A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site
that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit
and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration.
This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for
collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software
itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site,
or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original
wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia.
Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific
Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic
that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not:
structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask
a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the
question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a
new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless
he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition.
The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited.
There are several things that happen as a result:
1. The person gets his or her question answered;
2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question;
3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed
at seeing the same things over and over and over and ...
So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered.
You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful.
So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki!
It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing
something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately.
It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence
and structure.
But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else
coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something
I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then!
So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying,
maintaining, and understanding our airplanes.
But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write
it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is,
he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that.
And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor
is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether
the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page.
The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't
this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding
no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia
written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good
as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want
to.
So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The
more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people
and the more information they will put here for YOU to use.
Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place):
http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal
But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List
features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund
Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying
Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and
upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Weir" <billweir(at)lon.imag.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LONGER FUSELAGE |
A lurker joins the fray.
We have just started on a Pietenpol. This in an education process for the
son and a last airplane for the father. We have the table but are wondering
where to put the blocks to hold the stringers and cross members. Our engine
will be a Suzuki 1300 cc twin cam with a gear reduction. There is local
experience with this engine and it is pretty. We assume about 75 horsepower
with a weight of 175 pounds for the engine and 28 pounds for the gear
reduction. This will be a bit less than the 250 or so for the Ford B or the
Subaru. The propeller placement will put the engine high enough to show off
its twin cams.
I understand that Mr. Pietenpol's Corvair Air Camper was 6.5 inches longer
than the original. The question I ask, "Where is the additional 6.5 inches
put into the fuselage?"
Any insight will be appreciated.
Bill Weir
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: smoke systems |
Oscar.
Where can I get the plans for the a smoke system for my Piet?
Thanks
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: smoke systems
>
>
> Boy, this list is quiet! Guess I'll ask a question for those of you who
> use the windshield washer pump approach on your smoke system. I think
> Chuck "Baby Oil" Gantzer uses a portable battery or a rechargeable battery
> to power the 12V setup on Seven Zero Charlie Golf.
>
> My question is, how long will the battery operate the windshield washer
> pump before requiring a recharge? Once per flight? Several flights
> (tankfuls)? And is the battery a motorcycle type or dry type?
>
> Smoke on!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get today's hot entertainment gossip
> http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LONGER FUSELAGE |
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the list. The Piet is a great project.
Pietenpol designed 3 different wood fuselages. From shortest to longest,
they are the Flying & Glider, the Orrin Hoopman 1934 Improved, and the
Corvair. The 1934 are the plans you buy from Don Pietenpol and is 13'7"
long firewall to tailpost. The Corvair is a supplament plan you can also
buy from Don Pietenpol, it is 14'4 3/8" long, 2 7/8" longer in the aft bay
at the tailpost and 2 1/2" longer in the bay ahead of the aft bay, 2''
longer in the pilot pit and 2" longer in the first bay behind the firewall.
The Flying & Glider is 2" shorter than the 1934, all in the first bay
behind the firewall, making it 13'5" long.
Skip
> A lurker joins the fray.
> I understand that Mr. Pietenpol's Corvair Air Camper was 6.5 inches
longer
> than the original. The question I ask, "Where is the additional 6.5
inches
> put into the fuselage?"
> Bill Weir
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Oscar-- Chuck has a great article on his web site about his smoker......
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | How to pronounce Pietenpol? |
Howdy-
Kind of a newbie/lurker here. Guess I have the first newbie
question....
How do you pronounce Pietenpol?
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to pronounce Pietenpol? |
Me too. I think it's pronounced pete in pole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger & Barb <thoreson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to pronounce Pietenpol? |
>Hi Pete,
Another lurker here. If you want to stir a little excitement, pronounce it G-r-e-g-a.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: smoke systems |
Hey Oscar / Gene, et All,
The smoke system I have has proved to be very reliable, and the only
maintenance has been to recharge the battery about 4 or 5 times a summer...Oh yeah,
every once in a while ya gotta fill 'er up with either Baby Oil, or your
favorite white mineral oil.
My smoke system consists of an after-market windshield washer pump and
originally I had the aftermarket tank, plumbing to each exhaust pipe, and wiring
to the switch on the power lever. I isolated / mounted the tank on the upper
left motor mount tubing, with a couple layers of rubber strap. I routed the
clear tubing to a Tee fitting secured in rubber, to the engine mount, then
used 1/8" brass tubing to each of the fittings in the exhaust pipes. I laid out
the route of the tubing, marked the pipes, and removed both exhaust pipes. I
cut a 1/8" pipe coupler in half, radiused each half to the radius of the pipe,
and oxy / accy welded them to the aft pipe of each side. After welded, I
drilled one #60 hole through the exhaust pipes. I placed these holes toward the
bottom edge of the fittings, theorizing that if oil would lay in there it
would gum up. The switch is a push on / push off button, that is mounted right
to
the throttle handle. This location allows me to work the smoke without
taking my hand off the throttle. I originally thought it would only smoke good
at
full power, but came to find I don't need much over 1/4 throttle to Smoke 'Em
Up !! I can smoke 'em while taxiing, without any problem !! My exhaust pipes
point down and away from the fuselage, and even when all the oil doesn't
vaporize, the fuselage hardly gets anything on it.
I had a couple of squawks on the original system, that I have taken care
of.
1.) I mounted the tank at about the same level as the fittings on the
exhaust pipes, and it always dribbles out the pipes, with a little bit of smoke
as a
result. Over a period of a couple of hours, it will drain the tank, but I
usually 'Smoke em up' before that happens.
2.) When I ran the tank empty, and refill it, the pump would cavitate
because of the way the line ran from the bottom of the tank to the pump, and I
would always have to prime the pump, by blowing in the top of the tank. I got
some strange looks from folks, while I performed this operation !!
3.) The tank was too small. It only was big enough to do about 3 smoke
runs. I would like to put about a 5 gallon bucket up there on the firewall, but
I don't have enough room !!
4.) I had to remove the top cowling to re-fill the tank. I built a new
tank out of fiberglass / West System resin, with a fill tube out to the right
side of the cowling. It is mounted lower on the firewall. This will take care
of all the squawks.
5.) I now have been using the new smoke tank, but I have a small leak in
the tank. I used West Systems resin for the fiberglass tank, and evidently I
didn't get the seam sealed up good enough. I've never had that problem when I
used polyester resin, but it kicks very quickly. The West System gives some
time, but it is also quite a bit more expensive. I fixed the leak, and it has
been trouble free ever since.
I have some good pictures and explainations on my web site:
http://nx770cg.com/SmokeSystem.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
Chuck G.
Thanks for taking time to explain your smoke system. Do you mind if I
steal your idea? I just went to your site. A real 1st class site!
Gene
N502R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Chuck: you had me at the first sentence. All I asked was how long the
battery lasted between charges-! All that other good stuff was, as Mikee
pointed out, on both your website and your fun DVD.
I reassembled my carb with the new venturi today, fired up the engine and it
ran STRONG. What a joy to run the A65. Wings should be back on the
airplane soon...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Live Search!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | PS to engine run |
PS on today's engine run... I finally felt that I had the airplane tied down
securely enough to try a full-power static runup. The tach needle was
wiggling between 2200-2250 to me, so I think the firewall forward is about
optimum!
The EAA chapter has an optical tach and I'll be checking the mechanical tach
against it, but you just can't argue with this setup for the A65. It sure
is nice to hear it run.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to pronounce Pietenpol? |
It is Pete-n-Paul, according to Don Pietenpol.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Smoke system |
In a message dated 11/11/2006 5:22:42 PM Central Standard Time,
zharvey(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Chuck G.
Thanks for taking time to explain your smoke system. Do you mind if I steal
your idea? I just went to your site. A real 1st class site!
Gene
N502R
Gene,
It's not stealing by any streach of the imagination !! I hope some great day
will come, when we can fill the skies of Brodhead with Smokin' Pietenpols !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke system |
In a message dated 11/12/2006 12:07:42 AM Central Standard Time,
Rcaprd(at)aol.com writes:
Gene,
It's not stealing by any streach of the imagination !! I hope some great
day will come, when we can fill the skies of Brodhead with Smokin' Pietenpols
!!
Just as sure you do will bring on a horde of beauros demanding; a tower
w/operator, paved runway, landing lights, VOR and stuff, credentials officer on
the ground checking driver license pilots who may have been rejected on a
physical. All kinds of good stuff awaits you. Also, you may have a collision or
two in all that smoke and TP. Before doing ANYTHING
in aviation, especially something different, imagine how the feds can use it
to further control your hobby and enhance their beauro and pockets.
I promise this will be my last e-mail ever
Nathan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke system |
I hope not, Corky.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Smoke system
In a message dated 11/12/2006 12:07:42 AM Central Standard Time,
Rcaprd(at)aol.com writes:
Gene,
It's not stealing by any streach of the imagination !! I hope some
great day will come, when we can fill the skies of Brodhead with Smokin'
Pietenpols !!
Just as sure you do will bring on a horde of beauros demanding; a
tower w/operator, paved runway, landing lights, VOR and stuff,
credentials officer on the ground checking driver license pilots who may
have been rejected on a physical. All kinds of good stuff awaits you.
Also, you may have a collision or two in all that smoke and TP. Before
doing ANYTHING
in aviation, especially something different, imagine how the feds can
use it to further control your hobby and enhance their beauro and
pockets.
I promise this will be my last e-mail ever
Nathan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
| From: | "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca(at)us.army.mil> |
Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year. God willing I
should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the trip. This would be
a first time for me and I would rather fly there with a wingman(s)
John
Pittsburgh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73963#73963
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
Well, it's my dream to fly 41CC to Brodhead (via Shreveport, LA) and if I
don't have a goal or a dream to do so, it will never happen.
So I'll say yes, I'm planning to fly to Brodhead in '07. Turns out that
Paul Poberezny dissolved the SAA this past week, so there won't be another
fly-in to Urbana, Illinois... the only other one that I'd have liked to have
made. I don't think a NORDO, low/slow airplane like the Piet would be too
welcome at OSH so that's out of the question. Plus, people might wonder
about the integrity of an airplane that can be built for less than the cost
of a new sedan and maintained by someone without a uniform and an FAA
license of some sort. My wife still goes white as a sheet when I tell her
that I should never need a radio to talk to anybody when I fly the Piet most
places I want to take it. Most people assume that people flying airplanes
have to be under Air Traffic Control or else!
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Brodhead accommodations |
I sure this question was asked recently, but I was too dumb to pay attention.
I am planning to attend Brodhead 2007. Where can I stay nearby?
Jim,
I am still interested in those Model A engines. Are you still out there?
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
John:
I plan to fly MR. Hicks piet to Broadhead this year, but Missouir is a
little out of your way. But that does not mean we can not fly there
togeather.
Chet Hartley
N920Y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH
>
>
> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year. God
> willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the trip.
> This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there with a
> wingman(s)
> John
> Pittsburgh
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73963#73963
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
In a message dated 11/12/2006 6:39:22 PM Central Standard Time,
john.rocca(at)us.army.mil writes:
Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year.
I'm from W Va, but I fly out of Wichita KS. Be the good Lord willing, and
the creeks don't rise...I'll be there !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | WLAS [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
I sat down at the 'ol computer tonight to have a look at a few of the nice comments
List Members have been including along with their Contributions this year.
I was amazed at how many I found and even more amazed at some of the very nice
things Listers have been saying about the Lists and how valuable the they
are to them.
I've included quite a few of these nice comments below. Please read over some
of this great Lister feedback. No doubt you will find that you agree with at
least one or two of those comments - maybe all of them! If you find that do,
won't you please make a Contribution to support these Lists today!! Its fast
and easy with the Matronics List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Don't forget that I've now fully implemented the new *List Fund Raiser Squelch*
feature that will automatically intercept any future iterations of my "Please
Contribute" messages -- that is, *once you've made YOUR Contribution*! How cool
is that? (Make sure the email address you enter along with your Contribution
matches exactly your subscribed List email address. An exact match is how
it works.)
Thank you for your generous Contributions this year and for all the wonderful comments!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================
Absolutely the best deal on the Internet!!
-Owen B
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-Hal B
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-Bob R
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-Tony C
The Zenith list is the first thing I read in the morning.
-Herbert H
You do more good than you can imagine. I wish I'd known
about you while I was building my Kitfox, but you are
still an after-the-fact resource.
-Ben B
..an excellent site.
-Ashley M
The "List" has been the ultimate help for my Zenith
CH 701 project!!
-Brian U
I appreciate the list being here for me.
-Geoff H
..a great service.
-William C
The List continues to be an interesting and useful facility.
-David M
Your list is a constant goad to keep me working on my project.
-Thomas S
..a great service.
-Robert W
The Pietenpol list is a great resource.
-Benjamin W
The Yak-list is Awesome!
-James S
..great service.
-Robert S
The features you have implemented recently have you poised
to knock out yahoo groups...
-Danny D
I like how your forum looks/works and the list service...
-Ken E
..great service.
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..a very valuable service.
-Chris D
Great sites...
-Randall R
I used to look at [that other] site also but it's gotten so
cluttered with advertising that I've stopped looking at it.
-Wayne E
Without your services, the build would be a grope in the dark...
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The information and help I've received greatly outweighs the
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-William G
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Love the list, this is a wonderful way to help others...
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and educating me in the process.
-Jeff D
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..great service to the aviation community.
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get valuable information from this service.
-Don N
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-Roland S
It's a great community to be part of.
-David L
Great sites.
-John C
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-Warren M
..a great service...
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building of my Europa.
-Svein J
..another great year.
-Robert D
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..excellent service.
-Gregory B
I've learned a huge amount of "stuff" over the past year
and look forward to it every day!
-Smith M
..a great communication tool...
-Jon M
Finished building 5 years ago, but still are lurking on
your great list!
-Lothar K
..a valuable service. At 11:00 pm Matronics is the goto
place for my RV questions.
-Mike D
================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to pronounce Pietenpol? |
GREGA, I think, is pronounced, a i r p l a n e.
By the way, if anyone out there has an set of plans for the longer Piet they do
not have further use for and wishes to trade them for some other types of paper,
the kind with small pics of Abraham Lincoln on them, why don't you contact
me, for my archives.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
>From: Roger & Barb <thoreson(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Nov 11, 2006 11:13 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How to pronounce Pietenpol?
>
>
>>Hi Pete,
>Another lurker here. If you want to stir a little excitement, pronounce it
G-r-e-g-a.
>Roger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Speaking of Brodhead '07 |
Exactly WHEN is Brodhead 07?
Since we're just in the planning stages for eventually building, we
won't be flying one down for a few years, but we'd like to show up and
have a look! An internet search didn't turn up any details. When..and
where to stay?
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Cheap talk?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
John,
Cinda and I are hoping to make Brodhead 07, her in the motor home and me in
the GN-1. We live at Hales Landing (2WV3) about 12 miles south of
Parkersburg WV, and about 50 miles south of your direct line west from
Pittsburgh to skim the south side of Chicago class B. We would hope to
leave here the Tuesday or Wednesday before Brodhead. Haven't planned the
trip yet, but looks like 2 days, or one real long day in a Piet.
Skip
> [Original Message]
>
> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Brodhead next year. God
willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the trip.
This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there with a
wingman(s)
> John
> Pittsburgh
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
I'll be there, just don't know which airplane. I'd like to bring the
Pietenpol again, but my vacation schedule might dictate otherwise, in
which case I'll arrive in a shameful spam-can and park away from the
real airplanes (hey, being an RV-4 it is at least a taildragger, and a
homebuilt). Brodhead is two days of hard flying from Raleigh in a
Pietenpol, or 4 hours flat in an RV-4. Go figure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Skip-Cinda Gadd
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV,
OH
-->
John,
Cinda and I are hoping to make Brodhead 07, her in the motor home and me
in the GN-1. We live at Hales Landing (2WV3) about 12 miles south of
Parkersburg WV, and about 50 miles south of your direct line west from
Pittsburgh to skim the south side of Chicago class B. We would hope to
leave here the Tuesday or Wednesday before Brodhead. Haven't planned the
trip yet, but looks like 2 days, or one real long day in a Piet. Skip
> [Original Message]
>
> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Brodhead next year. God
willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the
trip. This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there
with a
wingman(s)
> John
> Pittsburgh
>
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Brodhead '07 |
In a message dated 11/13/2006 8:47:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com writes:
Exactly WHEN is Brodhead 07?
Since we're just in the planning stages for eventually building, we
won't be flying one down for a few years, but we'd like to show up and
have a look! An internet search didn't turn up any details. When..and
where to stay?
I do know the dates are July 20, 21 & 22. Still looking for a place to stay
as well.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | wing strut attachment geometry |
Hello group,
I have a question regarding wing strut attachment (geometry) at the spars. I
do not find any archived information on this subject.
As we build our Piets with the wing leaning back a little, and the fact that
by design, the lower wing strut attachment points are ahead of the upper wing
strut attachment points, the struts will also need to lean back accordingly.
As a result, the strut/s will not be aligned with the spar/s. Let's assume we
use hollow streamline tubing for strut material (aluminum or steel), and let's
assume we are fabricating an upper strut fitting with the hole perpendicular
to the strut as shown in photos from previous "fitting" discussions. My question
is "how do we assemble the strut/s to the wing at some required angle to
attach the lower end of the strut/s to the fuselage without having some kind
of capability for angular adjustment at the upper fitting?"
I have looked at many Piets at Brodhead, and if I recall correctly, they all
appear to have similar upper fittings where they get attached to the flat steel
coming off the spars with a perpendiculr hole drilled through the fittings,
and they all look like nice fabrications without any twisting.
Thank you again everyone. It seems that I have been asking my share of questions
lately and I appreciate the help.
John
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brodhead & cross country in a Peteandpole |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
That is one LONG trip you made in 2005 Jack to Brodhead and then your
other stops. I can't blame
you for wanting to fly the RV-4 up there. I've had way too much fun
driving and then camping over
by John Hofmann and Rob B. to bring the Piet again but still a
possibility. (I've only got about 6 hours
of flying to do to get to Brodhead from Ohio) You really have to be
dedicated to take a Pietenpol cross
country and it is very rare to find a Piet from more than a few states
away--but we're getting them. John D.
from Colorado, Iron Butt Chuck Gantzer from Kansas, and you from North
Carolina. Steve E. and Duane W. still
take the cake for flying in from Provo, Utah in 1999 though. Man, and
10,000 feet msl to cross those mountains !
Hats off to you all.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead accommodations |
Couple hotels in Monroe, about 15 minutes away, just google for motels in
Monroe, WS. Also a B&B in Broadhead, forget the name of it.
On 11/12/06, Pietsrneat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> * I sure this question was asked recently, but I was too dumb to pay
> attention.*
> * I am planning to attend Brodhead 2007. Where can I stay nearby?*
> * *
> *Jim,*
> * I am still interested in those Model A engines. Are you still out
> there?*
> **
> *Ron*
> * *
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing strut attachment geometry |
John,
The upper fitting , where the streamlined meets the flat strap, there is
a single bolt that the strut pivots on.
My Mentor had me put the end of the streamlined tubing in a vise and
flatten it down to the thickness of the flat strap. This way there is
no up/down wobble.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing strut attachment geometry
Hello group,
I have a question regarding wing strut attachment (geometry) at the
spars. I do not find any archived information on this subject.
As we build our Piets with the wing leaning back a little, and the
fact that by design, the lower wing strut attachment points are ahead of
the upper wing strut attachment points, the struts will also need to
lean back accordingly. As a result, the strut/s will not be aligned
with the spar/s. Let's assume we use hollow streamline tubing for strut
material (aluminum or steel), and let's assume we are fabricating an
upper strut fitting with the hole perpendicular to the strut as shown
in photos from previous "fitting" discussions. My question is "how do
we assemble the strut/s to the wing at some required angle to attach the
lower end of the strut/s to the fuselage without having some kind of
capability for angular adjustment at the upper fitting?"
I have looked at many Piets at Brodhead, and if I recall correctly,
they all appear to have similar upper fittings where they get attached
to the flat steel coming off the spars with a perpendiculr hole drilled
through the fittings, and they all look like nice fabrications without
any twisting.
Thank you again everyone. It seems that I have been asking my share
of questions lately and I appreciate the help.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing strut attachment geometry |
Walt,
I forgot, I'll have those diagonal flying wires in tension under the wing, so
I feel better using a single bolt.
Thanks again,
John
walt evans wrote:
John,
The upper fitting , where the streamlined meets the flat strap, there is a single
bolt that the strut pivots on.
My Mentor had me put the end of the streamlined tubing in a vise and flatten
it down to the thickness of the flat strap. This way there is no up/down wobble.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing strut attachment geometry
Hello group,
I have a question regarding wing strut attachment (geometry) at the spars. I
do not find any archived information on this subject.
As we build our Piets with the wing leaning back a little, and the fact that
by design, the lower wing strut attachment points are ahead of the upper wing
strut attachment points, the struts will also need to lean back accordingly.
As a result, the strut/s will not be aligned with the spar/s. Let's assume we
use hollow streamline tubing for strut material (aluminum or steel), and let's
assume we are fabricating an upper strut fitting with the hole perpendicular
to the strut as shown in photos from previous "fitting" discussions. My question
is "how do we assemble the strut/s to the wing at some required angle to
attach the lower end of the strut/s to the fuselage without having some kind
of capability for angular adjustment at the upper fitting?"
I have looked at many Piets at Brodhead, and if I recall correctly, they all
appear to have similar upper fittings where they get attached to the flat steel
coming off the spars with a perpendiculr hole drilled through the fittings,
and they all look like nice fabrications without any twisting.
Thank you again everyone. It seems that I have been asking my share of questions
lately and I appreciate the help.
John
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wing strut attachment geometry |
John,
I thought I understood your question,,,but I know I don't understand
your reply.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing strut attachment geometry
Walt,
I forgot, I'll have those diagonal flying wires in tension under the
wing, so I feel better using a single bolt.
Thanks again,
John
walt evans wrote:
John,
The upper fitting , where the streamlined meets the flat strap,
there is a single bolt that the strut pivots on.
My Mentor had me put the end of the streamlined tubing in a vise and
flatten it down to the thickness of the flat strap. This way there is
no up/down wobble.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: John Egan
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing strut attachment geometry
Hello group,
I have a question regarding wing strut attachment (geometry) at
the spars. I do not find any archived information on this subject.
As we build our Piets with the wing leaning back a little, and the
fact that by design, the lower wing strut attachment points are ahead of
the upper wing strut attachment points, the struts will also need to
lean back accordingly. As a result, the strut/s will not be aligned
with the spar/s. Let's assume we use hollow streamline tubing for strut
material (aluminum or steel), and let's assume we are fabricating an
upper strut fitting with the hole perpendicular to the strut as shown
in photos from previous "fitting" discussions. My question is "how do
we assemble the strut/s to the wing at some required angle to attach the
lower end of the strut/s to the fuselage without having some kind of
capability for angular adjustment at the upper fitting?"
I have looked at many Piets at Brodhead, and if I recall
correctly, they all appear to have similar upper fittings where they get
attached to the flat steel coming off the spars with a perpendiculr hole
drilled through the fittings, and they all look like nice fabrications
without any twisting.
Thank you again everyone. It seems that I have been asking my
share of questions lately and I appreciate the help.
John
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | wing strut attachment geometry |
Here's the picture:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P6210018.JPG
There is a bolt (vertical) that holds the attach fitting (strap) into the
end of the streamline tubing and another (fore-and-aft) that holds the
attach fitting to the wing. In this picture (John Dilatush's "Mountain
Piet") there is the added feature of a wing tiedown point, but you can see
that the X-brace wires have tabs that the bolt through the wing attach
fittings capture.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing strut attachment geometry |
In a message dated 11/13/2006 11:42:04 AM Central Standard Time,
johnegan99(at)yahoo.com writes:
My question is "how do we assemble the strut/s to the wing at some required
angle to attach the lower end of the strut/s to the fuselage without having
some kind of capability for angular adjustment at the upper fitting?"
And remember to design the Jury Struts to be able to adjust for & aft, with
the bolts in the lateral direction. I made my Lift Strut Attachments according
to the plans...I call them 'Lollypop Fittings'. The two bolts running
perpendicular to each other allows the wing to pivot. I have a good picture of
how
I did the lower Jury Strut Attachment at my web site, down toward the bottom
of the page at:
http://nx770cg.com/Wing.html
It's best if you have a high speed connection, because I have so many
pictures there to download.
I now have some actual moving parts on my Tailwind, and I just recently
updated the 'Next Project Tailwind' page too, at:
http://nx770cg.com/NextProjectTailwind.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
In a message dated 11/13/2006 7:51:04 AM Central Standard Time,
csfog(at)earthlink.net writes:
Haven't planned the
trip yet, but looks like 2 days, or one real long day in a Piet.
Skip,
Making it a two day trip is Much more enjoyable, because you don't have 'Git
There Itis', and you can spend extra time when you're at the fuel stops to
allow all the folks that come out of the woodwork to check out your plane...and
answer all the most popular questions: "What is that ?" "Is it a kit ?"
"Waddya mean you Scratch Built it ???" And, "Where are you going / coming
from ?" Then, of course, they have to take your picture...so you simply have
to plan for all this extra time spent at the stops.
People will walk right past a $200,000 airplane to get a close up and
personal look at your plane !!
The Journey is the Reward !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
Chet,
I live in Tennessee (half way between Nashville and Memphis) and plan on
flying to Broadhead with my Piet. Where in Missouri are you? Any luck with
the engine yet?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH
>
>
> John:
>
> I plan to fly MR. Hicks piet to Broadhead this year, but Missouir is a
> little out of your way. But that does not mean we can not fly there
> togeather.
>
> Chet Hartley
> N920Y
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca(at)us.army.mil>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:36 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH
>
>
>>
>>
>> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year. God
>> willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the
>> trip. This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there with
>> a wingman(s)
>> John
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73963#73963
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
I will definetly be there, although I may not be flying down this year.
I hope to have my new Piet done by then and hopefully will trailer it
down as test flights will just be begining.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Tailwind (not Piet!) |
No, not GN-1, either!
I will have to say that one of the very first issues of Sport Aviation that
I ever had my hands on back in the 70s, and suddenly realized that it was
possible for ordinary earthlings to build an airplane that could fly in the
same airspace as certified aircraft, featured a Wittman Tailwind that was
built by a gentleman with such talent and attention to detail as I had never
before seen in my life. The project was described over many pages in the
magazine and described how he improved a thing or two here and there, and it
was a most astonishingly beautiful airplane to my little spam can eyes! I
sure wish I could remember who wrote that article and built that Tailwind; I
have the searchable Sport Aviation archive on CD and should just search for
Tailwinds, but I remember sitting up late at night reading those first
copies of Sport Aviation and marvelling at how, even just in a wishful
dream, I might could... maybe... naw... me?... build and fly... a real
airplane? And it could have real instruments just like real airplanes, and
could fly hundreds and thousands of hours and the FAA would let you do it,
here in the radio controlled states of America? Wow! Nobody ever told me!
Carry on, Chuck. If I didn't dislike that oddball single/dual control yoke
thing, I'd love Tailwinds all to pieces. Simple, efficient, fast, clean
lines... and I did mention over on the Corvair list how I thought the
Buttercup would be a marriage made in heaven with the Corvair on the nose.
The Buttercup is just as nice as the Tailwind in many respects.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | High Altitude Ford Performance. |
Hi, Do you seasoned Piet Pilots with Ford A power think an "A" can be
modified enough to put out the power needed to fly a long fuselage Piet
at it's max gross weight in the Summer out of an airport with 4,000 feet
elevation? Lots of density altitude. Runway length will be plenty 5,500
feet. If so what engine and/or airframe modifications would you guys
recommend? Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> |
Hey Chuck G.
I noticed on your webpage you used ACE brand Spar Varnish. How did it
hold up to the covering chemicals?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/13/2006 10:55:35 PM Central Standard Time,
catdesigns(at)comcast.net writes:
I noticed on your webpage you used ACE brand Spar Varnish. How did it hold
up to the covering chemicals?
No problems, Chris. I included the part number there, too. Just allow it to
cure 100%...maybe a couple of days. I use it exclusively to protect all the
wood, even the prop. However, the last time I reworked my prop, I used West
System Epoxy / Fiberglass, to protect the prop.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
p.s. You've got a great web site there !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tailwind (not Piet!) |
In a message dated 11/13/2006 9:06:30 PM Central Standard Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
Carry on, Chuck. If I didn't dislike that oddball single/dual control yoke
thing, I'd love Tailwinds all to pieces. Simple, efficient, fast, clean
lines... and I did mention over on the Corvair list how I thought the
Buttercup would be a marriage made in heaven with the Corvair on the nose.
The Buttercup is just as nice as the Tailwind in many respects.
C'mon Oscar !!
That oddball single / duel control yoke speaks volumes about simplicity !!
Another very interesting aspect of the Tailwind, is how the leading edge of
the wing is designed. The inboard portion of the wing angles back in to the
fuselage, and at high angle of attack, allows air to spill over, and accelerate,
over the top of the fuselage, which then the fuselage actually becomes more
of a lifting body, and reduces wing tip vortices. This is how he designed a
high speed airplane, with very gentle stall characteristics. Just before his
demise, Steve Wittman was working on incorporating that movable leading edge
concept (ala Buttercup wing) to the Tailwind wing.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: High Altitude Ford Performance. |
You need to see this;
http://users.aol.com/gmaclaren/dyno.html
Also understand that reliability is inversly propotional to
any hotrodding one does.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Ross
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: High Altitude Ford Performance.
Hi, Do you seasoned Piet Pilots with Ford A power think an "A" can be
modified enough to put out the power needed to fly a long fuselage Piet
at it's max gross weight in the Summer out of an airport with 4,000 feet
elevation? Lots of density altitude. Runway length will be plenty 5,500
feet. If so what engine and/or airframe modifications would you guys
recommend? Thanks, Kevin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/13/2006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Chris Tracy's website |
>Chris Tracy
>Sacramento, Ca
>Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
Chuck wrote-
>p.s. You've got a great web site there !!
Man, it is a great site! Lots and lots of good pictures there.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and morethen map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chris Tracy's website |
We echo Oscar and Chuck's thoughts on this website. The pictures are worth a
zillion words! No Piet builder should be without it!
Don't archive
Lynn & Kevin Knoll
Wichita
Piet/Vair in the works
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chris Tracy's website
>Chris Tracy
>Sacramento, Ca
>Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
Chuck wrote-
>p.s. You've got a great web site there !!
Man, it is a great site! Lots and lots of good pictures there.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more.then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chris Tracy's website |
I just have to add my "WOW"
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chris Tracy's website
>
>
>>Chris Tracy
>>Sacramento, Ca
>>Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
> Chuck wrote-
>>p.s. You've got a great web site there !!
>
> Man, it is a great site! Lots and lots of good pictures there.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more.then map the best
> route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chris Tracy's website |
Thanks for all your comments on the website. Not having any other builders
near by I have had to rely on the others to post pictures of their planes so
I know how important they are.
Now, all you builders and flyer of Pietenpol's, and even you Grega guys,
send me your pictures and I will add them to the site as time allows, I am
after all trying to build an airplane you know.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chris Tracy's website |
One more thing about the website. Recently I added some pictures of the
second Pietenpol I have ever seen.
(Caution lots of thumbnail pictures and may load slow on dial-up)
http://westcoastpiet.com/new_page_24.htm
At first glance, due to the location of the landing gear, it looks like a
Grega but it is not. It's a Piet. The builders used gear legs from a Tri
Pacer turned around backwards and shortened. This necessitated the
relocation of the rear landing gear mount. I think the wing struts are also
from a Tri Pacer. They also rounded off the nose of the airfoil because an
aerodynamicist friend told them it would stall better. They said it flew
quite nicely. but have only 20hr on the plane so no details on the
performance.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O'Hara-Howe/IMG_3042.JPG
They raised the wing a couple of inches which caused the angles of the lower
strut attachment fittings to be off. As the plane was finished and covered
before they discovered this they had to make up these metal wedges to
compensate.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O'Hara-Howe/IMG_3032.JPG
I think it's a common mod to raise the wing a couple of inches so watch out
for this if you still building.
One of the things I thought was a good idea was this brace under the rudder
bar .
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O'Hara-Howe/IMG_3105.JPG
It is topped with some plastic so it slides easily. There is one on both
side and really makes it feel nice an stable, no wobble at all. It also has
a block on top to act as a rudder stop.
In one of the pictures you will see a black tile, it's from the Space
Shuttle. I guess it's there to remind them about the glide ration if you
loose your engine. They also have a piece of spruce from the Spruce Goose
but I cant remember where it's located.
They also have this on the front of the cowling,
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/O'Hara-Howe/IMG_3048.JPG
and it struck me as quite appropriate for a Piet.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone
that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort
of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors
(LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems
at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a
building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription!
Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is
fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lou Wither <nav8799h(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I have unsucessfully tried to unsuscribe to the list, I would appreciate you help.
Sold the Pietenpol.
Thanks
Lou Wither
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Weir" <billweir(at)lon.imag.net> |
| Subject: | FUSELAGE LENGTHS |
Thanks, Skip.
Your describing the various Pietenpol fuselages is exactly what was wanted.
Now to work.
Bill Weir
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | need advise this is way off topic |
Hello Piet'ers,
Ben up here in St. Cloud, MN. First I want say that I committed a sin. I destroyed
that fuselage that I had started in the name of building a cub replica. But
I need some moral guidence and I thought I would turn to this list for help.
Me and a friend by the name of Robb are trying to get started on a J-3 cub from
Plans that I bought from Light Miniature aircraft. this past weekend we tried
to align everything up and the plans would not match up. Yes these are full
scale plans you build on top of. After trying to get help from a number of people
my questions are not getting answered just more bewilderment. So right now
me and my dad are in the process of redrawing everything. The other choice
I have is to scrap this project and build the aircamper which I have a lot of
knowledge of becuase since 1996 when me and dad got plans from Orrin Hoopman my
dad has been trying to get something flying, but nothing comes of it. So I need
help and a little guidence. I know this forum is less hostile.
sorry for this off topic but I just don't know where else to go and ask!
take Care,
Ben Ramler
Sponsored Link
Mortgage rates near 39yr lows.
$420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment!
www.LowerMyBills.com/lre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | need advise this is way off topic |
ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>So I need help and a little guidence. I know this forum is less hostile.
Yes, this forum is less hostile but it will not lead you to:
-a glass cockpit with IFR capabilities and full electric system;
-an airplane that cruises in the triple digits;
-redundant systems;
-an airplane with an enclosed cockpit and cabin heat;
-an airplane with a $15,000 engine;
-something you build from parts that you took out of a big box
-paint jobs that cost more than the airplane.
If any of your goals for building or flying include the above, you probably
won't find it here.
Ben, you need to go out to an airport on a nice Saturday and watch the
airplanes fly, peek into hangars, look at airplanes that are sitting on the
ramp, and find one that grabs you. One that you like, one that sounds nice,
one that smells nice, one that you want to get into and fly. That's the one
you want to work on because it has to grab you in the heart first. A roll
of plans won't do it, and neither will an advertisement or a price tag or a
pretty paint job. The airplane has to give you "the wink", like a pretty
girl does, and not just one that's wearing a lot of makeup and a short
skirt. When you get "the wink" and your heart skips, that's your girl...
and your airplane.
Since you're here on the Pietenpol list, I think an old wood-and-fabric
airplane already gave you "the wink". I'll bet there are a good bunch of
people in Minnesota who are building or flying Pietenpols that you can look
at, smell, listen to, and maybe fly in. Maybe somebody here on the list
will hook up with you to see if the Aircamper is "the girl next door" for
you. If so, don't expect to do anything in a big hurry... building, flying,
or anything else. We don't move too fast here but that's half the fun.
Guys that are in a hurry tend to pass by the girl without even noticing "the
wink" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered
by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
Hi Ben,
Come to Stanton (SYN) next year when the flying weather returns. I will give
you a ride in NX18235 (see attached pictures) to give you a taste of flying
a Pietenpol.
Forget the LMA Cub, no one will give it a second look on the flightline. If
you come to Stanton on Father's Day for the annual fly-in you will see
hundreds of people walking past Stearmans, Cubs, Waco's, Ercoupes, the usual
throng of RV's, Pitts', Howards and many other types as they flock to the
Pietenpol to look at it closely. Old men look at it with a gleam in their
eyes, kids want to sit in it and woman think it is the "cutest plane ever".
To most people big biplanes are intimidating and enclosed cabin airplanes
are uninviting. The diminutive Pietenpol with it's open cockpits literally
screams "Come and look at me!" People who know nothing about airplanes are
drawn to it like moths to a flame. At the end of the day you will be hoarse
from answering questions about your plane.
Fly-in organizers will ask you to bring your Pietenpol to their airport
fly-ins. Owners of private airstrips will literally beg you to land at their
strip any time you want.
Two weeks ago I took the plane up for the last flight of the season. 70
degrees, sunny and light winds. A perfect day. Lots of farmers in their
fields with tractors and combines. With my leather helmet, goggles and silk
scarf it was too easy to pretend the farmers and their machines were the
mechanized division of the German Wehrmacht. Strafing runs were the order of
the day. The crossed cabane cables made a perfect gunsight. Swooping in and
out of the Cannon River ravines, dodging red-tailed hawks and just flying
for the pure fun of it. I only landed because my gas was getting low.
I had a silly grin on my face for two days.
Build the Pietenpol. YOU WILL NOT REGRET THE DECISION!
Greg Cardinal
Minneapolis
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Hello Piet'ers,
>
> Ben up here in St. Cloud, MN. First I want say that I committed a sin. I
> destroyed that fuselage that I had started in the name of building a cub
> replica. But I need some moral guidence and I thought I would turn to this
> list for help. Me and a friend by the name of Robb are trying to get
> started on a J-3 cub from Plans that I bought from Light Miniature
> aircraft. this past weekend we tried to align everything up and the plans
> would not match up. Yes these are full scale plans you build on top of.
> After trying to get help from a number of people my questions are not
> getting answered just more bewilderment. So right now me and my dad are in
> the process of redrawing everything. The other choice I have is to scrap
> this project and build the aircamper which I have a lot of knowledge of
> becuase since 1996 when me and dad got plans from Orrin Hoopman my dad has
> been trying to get something flying, but nothing comes of it. So I need
> help and a little guidence. I know this forum is!
> less hostile.
>
> sorry for this off topic but I just don't know where else to go and ask!
>
>
> take Care,
>
> Ben Ramler
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
I am having a fly-in this weekend at O44 (Oscar44) south of Norman, OK.
Everyone is welcome...its a good 'ol grass strip where my plane is based.
We'll have BBQ and a good time. More details here:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)can.rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Piet & Vimy Ridge Documentary followup |
The film is a documentary on the 3 dimensions (air, ground, and
undeground) that the Canadian Forces used at the Battle of Vimy Ridge on
April 9 - 12, 1917. The documentary will focus on the underground
tunnels that were used to house troops, move in supplies, and undermine
with explosive the german trenches. The ground war of infantry and
artillery. And the aerial war displaying how aircraft were used to spot
and direct artillery fire by morse code back to the allied lines.
The filming consisted of ground to air, air to air with a camera
mounted on a helicopter. A camera in the front seat, and a camera
mounted on the front cabane & wing struts shooting back toward both seat
positions with the ground in the background. I have seen the raw footage
taken, and with the very high quality equipment the filming is
fantastic. I'm sure once the editors do there magic, the film will have
some incredible flying sequences.
Since it's a documentary, the producers were comfortable with using
the Pietenpol. The likely original aircraft was a BE-2, of which there
are none airworthy in the world anymore. Or a Sopwith 1/2 Strutter. And
the only flying one in Canada had a recent engine failure. At least the
Pietenpol does have the open cockpit, and speed range that the original
types would have had. It was about -6C during the filming, and this
would have been very similar to actual conditions on the days of the
original battle.
The film is a 90 minute special that will debut on the 'History
Channel' in Canada on April 9th 2007. On the 90th anniversary of the
battle. Unfortunately for you all south of the border, I have no idea if
this film will be broadcasted in the USA. I will be getting a personal
copy of the film. And either myself or someone else from my home field
will take a copy to Broadhead with them.
Shawn Wolk
C-FRAZ 1933 Pietenpol Aircamper
Winnipeg, MB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
Hi Oscar, Greg, and Group,
my main to goal is to go flying! IFR and all that other stuff is so over rated
it's not even funny. A simple airplane is all I need. and my friend to. I have
done a lot of sitting at airports lately. Plus I've been to broadhead with my
dad back in 1996 or 1997 don't remember which.
----- Original Message ----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:35:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>So I need help and a little guidence. I know this forum is less hostile.
Yes, this forum is less hostile but it will not lead you to:
-a glass cockpit with IFR capabilities and full electric system;
-an airplane that cruises in the triple digits;
-redundant systems;
-an airplane with an enclosed cockpit and cabin heat;
-an airplane with a $15,000 engine;
-something you build from parts that you took out of a big box
-paint jobs that cost more than the airplane.
If any of your goals for building or flying include the above, you probably
won't find it here.
Ben, you need to go out to an airport on a nice Saturday and watch the
airplanes fly, peek into hangars, look at airplanes that are sitting on the
ramp, and find one that grabs you. One that you like, one that sounds nice,
one that smells nice, one that you want to get into and fly. That's the one
you want to work on because it has to grab you in the heart first. A roll
of plans won't do it, and neither will an advertisement or a price tag or a
pretty paint job. The airplane has to give you "the wink", like a pretty
girl does, and not just one that's wearing a lot of makeup and a short
skirt. When you get "the wink" and your heart skips, that's your girl...
and your airplane.
Since you're here on the Pietenpol list, I think an old wood-and-fabric
airplane already gave you "the wink". I'll bet there are a good bunch of
people in Minnesota who are building or flying Pietenpols that you can look
at, smell, listen to, and maybe fly in. Maybe somebody here on the list
will hook up with you to see if the Aircamper is "the girl next door" for
you. If so, don't expect to do anything in a big hurry... building, flying,
or anything else. We don't move too fast here but that's half the fun.
Guys that are in a hurry tend to pass by the girl without even noticing "the
wink" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered
by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
Sponsored Link
Mortgage rates near 39yr lows.
$420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment!
www.LowerMyBills.com/lre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
Well, not to mess things up too much...but if all you want to do is go flying,
a homebuilt like a Piet may only frustrate you.
Consider what a lot of other homebuilders have done: Buy an old Champ, Cessna
120, 150 or similar so you can "go flying".....while you make sawdust building
that Air Camper!
I wouldn't dream of trying to change your focus.....but "plans built" homebuilding
projects won't scratch that itch for you....for a LONG time!
Actually, as I sit here looking out the window at a beautiful clear blue sky....all
I want to do is go flying!!!!
Jim in (kinda) cold NE Oklahoma.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 16, 2006 10:19 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
>Hi Oscar, Greg, and Group,
>
> my main to goal is to go flying! IFR and all that other stuff is so over rated
it's not even funny. A simple airplane is all I need. and my friend to. I have
done a lot of sitting at airports lately. Plus I've been to broadhead with
my dad back in 1996 or 1997 don't remember which.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
but jim do realize how much a 150 or a champ goes for..........way to much! Its
easier for me to build then go flying! Besides sawdust is fun!
Ben R
St. Cloud, MN
----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:50:05 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
Well, not to mess things up too much...but if all you want to do is go flying,
a homebuilt like a Piet may only frustrate you.
Consider what a lot of other homebuilders have done: Buy an old Champ, Cessna
120, 150 or similar so you can "go flying".....while you make sawdust building
that Air Camper!
I wouldn't dream of trying to change your focus.....but "plans built" homebuilding
projects won't scratch that itch for you....for a LONG time!
Actually, as I sit here looking out the window at a beautiful clear blue sky....all
I want to do is go flying!!!!
Jim in (kinda) cold NE Oklahoma.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 16, 2006 10:19 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
>Hi Oscar, Greg, and Group,
>
> my main to goal is to go flying! IFR and all that other stuff is so over rated
it's not even funny. A simple airplane is all I need. and my friend to. I have
done a lot of sitting at airports lately. Plus I've been to broadhead with
my dad back in 1996 or 1997 don't remember which.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | need advise this is way off topic |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Some of us are builders and some are flyers and some are both.I come
under the second category.I bought a Piet that was just about finished
hoping I could get airborn ASAP.As it turned out it took longer than I
figured and I almost gave up on the project.I kept going because of this
web page.It gave me what I needed and I'm not just talking about
information.There is a spirit here you can't explain.I love to fly my
Piet now but Jim has a point here;if your not a builder then stay away
from it because it will drive you nuts.Good luck in what ever you do.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Markle
Sent: November 16, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
Well, not to mess things up too much...but if all you want to do is go
flying, a homebuilt like a Piet may only frustrate you.
Consider what a lot of other homebuilders have done: Buy an old Champ,
Cessna 120, 150 or similar so you can "go flying".....while you make
sawdust building that Air Camper!
I wouldn't dream of trying to change your focus.....but "plans built"
homebuilding projects won't scratch that itch for you....for a LONG
time!
Actually, as I sit here looking out the window at a beautiful clear blue
sky....all I want to do is go flying!!!!
Jim in (kinda) cold NE Oklahoma.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 16, 2006 10:19 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
>Hi Oscar, Greg, and Group,
>
> my main to goal is to go flying! IFR and all that other stuff is so
over rated it's not even funny. A simple airplane is all I need. and my
friend to. I have done a lot of sitting at airports lately. Plus I've
been to broadhead with my dad back in 1996 or 1997 don't remember which.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | need advise this is way off topic |
Ben, here's an idea for you. Pietenpoler Carl Vought died recently and left
two very nice Piet projects uncompleted, both for sale. Buy one and you're
75% on the way to flying but can still enjoy completing the construction
process on an above-average workmanship project.
There is info available on the person who is handling inquiries on the
projects and materials for Carl's widow, Barbara. The projects are in
northern Alabama.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
Microsoft Office Live
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
Ben,
There's a really nice O-200 piet currently up for sale on Barnstormers.
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSESSID=b57446cc465a6aeefe8ef51821bb0929
Get a partner to share the cost of the bird and the hangar rent. You could
be flying RIGHT away!
Greg Bacon
Mtn. Piet Repairman
Prairie Home, MO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
> but jim do realize how much a 150 or a champ goes for..........way to
> much! Its easier for me to build then go flying! Besides sawdust is fun!
>
> Ben R
>
> St. Cloud, MN
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:50:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
>
>
> Well, not to mess things up too much...but if all you want to do is go
> flying, a homebuilt like a Piet may only frustrate you.
>
> Consider what a lot of other homebuilders have done: Buy an old Champ,
> Cessna 120, 150 or similar so you can "go flying".....while you make
> sawdust building that Air Camper!
>
> I wouldn't dream of trying to change your focus.....but "plans built"
> homebuilding projects won't scratch that itch for you....for a LONG time!
>
> Actually, as I sit here looking out the window at a beautiful clear blue
> sky....all I want to do is go flying!!!!
>
> Jim in (kinda) cold NE Oklahoma.....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Nov 16, 2006 10:19 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Oscar, Greg, and Group,
>>
>> my main to goal is to go flying! IFR and all that other stuff is so over
>> rated it's not even funny. A simple airplane is all I need. and my friend
>> to. I have done a lot of sitting at airports lately. Plus I've been to
>> broadhead with my dad back in 1996 or 1997 don't remember which.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth
of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription
to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at
least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount
and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses?
Come to think of it, you do...
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
Nice but neither me or Robb have the money, besides I have corvair enigne already!
----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon67(at)hughes.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:42:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
Ben,
There's a really nice O-200 piet currently up for sale on Barnstormers.
http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSESSID=b57446cc465a6aeefe8ef51821bb0929
Get a partner to share the cost of the bird and the hangar rent. You could
be flying RIGHT away!
Greg Bacon
Mtn. Piet Repairman
Prairie Home, MO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
> but jim do realize how much a 150 or a champ goes for..........way to
> much! Its easier for me to build then go flying! Besides sawdust is fun!
>
> Ben R
>
> St. Cloud, MN
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:50:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>
>
>
>
> Well, not to mess things up too much...but if all you want to do is go
> flying, a homebuilt like a Piet may only frustrate you.
>
> Consider what a lot of other homebuilders have done: Buy an old Champ,
> Cessna 120, 150 or similar so you can "go flying".....while you make
> sawdust building that Air Camper!
>
> I wouldn't dream of trying to change your focus.....but "plans built"
> homebuilding projects won't scratch that itch for you....for a LONG time!
>
> Actually, as I sit here looking out the window at a beautiful clear blue
> sky....all I want to do is go flying!!!!
>
> Jim in (kinda) cold NE Oklahoma.....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Nov 16, 2006 10:19 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi Oscar, Greg, and Group,
>>
>> my main to goal is to go flying! IFR and all that other stuff is so over
>> rated it's not even funny. A simple airplane is all I need. and my friend
>> to. I have done a lot of sitting at airports lately. Plus I've been to
>> broadhead with my dad back in 1996 or 1997 don't remember which.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need advise this is way off topic |
yeah! how much! remember niether robb or me don't have alot of money.
----- Original Message ----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:00:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need advise this is way off topic
Ben, here's an idea for you. Pietenpoler Carl Vought died recently and left
two very nice Piet projects uncompleted, both for sale. Buy one and you're
75% on the way to flying but can still enjoy completing the construction
process on an above-average workmanship project.
There is info available on the person who is handling inquiries on the
projects and materials for Carl's widow, Barbara. The projects are in
northern Alabama.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
Microsoft Office Live
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The correct spelling is advice..... |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Well I had to say something......plus hopefully start some controversy
to get the list talking again ! :)))
Ben says that he wants to fly right now and I think we can all relate to
that. Many of us can relate to that desire from when we were very
young---in my case around 6 years old. I flew kites, rubber band
models, control line Cox models, Estes rockets, our parents large patio
umbrella off the roof of our garage when they weren't home and of course
blowing up old airplane models with firecrackers......but it took
me until I was 29 years old before I had enough money to put down $
3,500 on 1/2 ownership in an Aeronca Champ. Now 1/2 ownership
in a Champ is about $ 12,500 so I can understand where Ben is coming
from so do the decent thing and BEG for a ride or hunt around
and find a CFI that will let you ride with him in the back seat while he
is giving lessons in a 172. There are ways to fly now, cheap..but
you have to be a scrapper and be resourceful---just like when you build
a non-kit airplane like a Pietenpol.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The correct spelling is advice..... |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
I bought a Lazair ultralight back in the mid 80's for 5000$.Put a 77
Impala up for collateral.My wife was pissed.Still is.I'm sorry but I
have to fly!I had to sell the Lazair in the mid 90's to pay of some debt
but in 2000 I bought an N3 pup for 9000$ then the Piet came up for sale
for 10,000$.I told my wife,listen it's too good a deal to pass up.She's
still mad.I have two planes and she's still pissed.I wish I'd kept the
Lazair too and then I'd have three planes and then everybody could be
mad at me but I'd still be flyin!If you really want to fly ,you'll find
a way even if it means getting everybody mad at you.Put the house up for
collateral,the car,the wife, what ever!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: November 17, 2006 1:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
Well I had to say something......plus hopefully start some controversy
to get the list talking again ! :)))
Ben says that he wants to fly right now and I think we can all relate to
that. Many of us can relate to that desire from when we were very
young---in my case around 6 years old. I flew kites, rubber band
models, control line Cox models, Estes rockets, our parents large patio
umbrella off the roof of our garage when they weren't home and of course
blowing up old airplane models with firecrackers......but it took
me until I was 29 years old before I had enough money to put down $
3,500 on 1/2 ownership in an Aeronca Champ. Now 1/2 ownership
in a Champ is about $ 12,500 so I can understand where Ben is coming
from so do the decent thing and BEG for a ride or hunt around
and find a CFI that will let you ride with him in the back seat while he
is giving lessons in a 172. There are ways to fly now, cheap..but
you have to be a scrapper and be resourceful---just like when you build
a non-kit airplane like a Pietenpol.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re:More advice on cheap flying |
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote:
> Well I had to say something......plus hopefully start some controversy
> to get the list talking again ! :)))
>
Hi all,
There is a guy in our local EAA chapter that just finished a beautiful
Pietenpol. He hadn't flown in a long time and is now taking some
lessons with another club member in a J-3. His plane has flown a couple
of times, but not with him at the controls. I'm still a few years away
from that moment, but I decided that I didn't want to have to stand on
the side of the runway while a friend of mine did the first flight.
Another club member is retiring from flying and had an old Corben Baby
Ace for sale at a great price. Another club member is in the process of
getting me a taildragger endorsement and some currency so I can get some
liability insurance. I have a Private ticket, and am going to fly sport
pilot. If all goes well, I should have the airplane in my posession in
a few weeks, and be ready to fly the Fly Baby in January of February.
It has a Continental A75 with about 100 hours SMOH, 78/80 compression on
all 4 cylinders and a fresh annual. It isn't much to look at, but its
open cockpit and probably will fly very similar to a Piet. Maybe I just
got lucky, but I would suggest joining your local EAA chapter, hang out
at the local airport as much as you have time, andget all the building
advice you can from all the members and the EAA Tech counselors ( my
tech advisor was the one that knew about the plane for sale)
Building a Pietenpol is a lot of fun, but not the cheapest or fastest
way to get in the air, although you can spread the payments out over
5-10 years if you need to!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
I guess I just don't understand.... How about getting the money to fly
the old fashion way? Get a second job and save til you have the money.
Question. If you don't have the money (or can't earn it) how are you
going to pay for the Hanger, the gas and up keep? I don't want to be
negative but let's be honest. It costs a lot to fly and the money has
to come from some where. Buying the plane is only one part of
ownership.
My wife and my motto is "If you don't dream, dreams can't come true."
We've done a lot of crazy things, such as cruising and living on a sail
boat for 12 years in the Pacific. A dream come true? Yes, but not
without one hell of a lot of work, doing a whole bunch of job I didn't
want to do. It sure was worth it. I'm retired now but still work one
day a week, just so I can keep flying. Ain't no one else going to do it
for me.
Gene
N502R --- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
I bought a Lazair ultralight back in the mid 80's for 5000$.Put a 77
Impala up for collateral.My wife was pissed.Still is.I'm sorry but I
have to fly!I had to sell the Lazair in the mid 90's to pay of some debt
but in 2000 I bought an N3 pup for 9000$ then the Piet came up for sale
for 10,000$.I told my wife,listen it's too good a deal to pass up.She's
still mad.I have two planes and she's still pissed.I wish I'd kept the
Lazair too and then I'd have three planes and then everybody could be
mad at me but I'd still be flyin!If you really want to fly ,you'll find
a way even if it means getting everybody mad at you.Put the house up for
collateral,the car,the wife, what ever!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: November 17, 2006 1:23 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
Well I had to say something......plus hopefully start some controversy
to get the list talking again ! :)))
Ben says that he wants to fly right now and I think we can all relate
to that. Many of us can relate to that desire from when we were very
young---in my case around 6 years old. I flew kites, rubber band
models, control line Cox models, Estes rockets, our parents large patio
umbrella off the roof of our garage when they weren't home and of
course blowing up old airplane models with firecrackers......but it took
me until I was 29 years old before I had enough money to put down $
3,500 on 1/2 ownership in an Aeronca Champ. Now 1/2 ownership
in a Champ is about $ 12,500 so I can understand where Ben is coming
from so do the decent thing and BEG for a ride or hunt around
and find a CFI that will let you ride with him in the back seat while
he is giving lessons in a 172. There are ways to fly now, cheap..but
you have to be a scrapper and be resourceful---just like when you
build a non-kit airplane like a Pietenpol.
Mike C.
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
you need to get rid of your wife, Harvey:))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The correct spelling is advice..... |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:18 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
I guess I just don't understand.... How about getting the money
to fly the old fashion way? Get a second job and save til you have the
money.
Question. If you don't have the money (or can't earn it) how
are you going to pay for the Hanger, the gas and up keep? I don't want
to be negative but let's be honest. It costs a lot to fly and the money
has to come from some where. Buying the plane is only one part of
ownership.
My wife and my motto is "If you don't dream, dreams can't come
true." We've done a lot of crazy things, such as cruising and living on
a sail boat for 12 years in the Pacific. A dream come true? Yes, but
not without one hell of a lot of work, doing a whole bunch of job I
didn't want to do. It sure was worth it. I'm retired now but still
work one day a week, just so I can keep flying. Ain't no one else going
to do it for me.
Gene
N502R --- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is
advice.....
I bought a Lazair ultralight back in the mid 80's for
5000$.Put a 77 Impala up for collateral.My wife was pissed.Still is.I'm
sorry but I have to fly!I had to sell the Lazair in the mid 90's to pay
of some debt but in 2000 I bought an N3 pup for 9000$ then the Piet came
up for sale for 10,000$.I told my wife,listen it's too good a deal to
pass up.She's still mad.I have two planes and she's still pissed.I wish
I'd kept the Lazair too and then I'd have three planes and then
everybody could be mad at me but I'd still be flyin!If you really want
to fly ,you'll find a way even if it means getting everybody mad at
you.Put the house up for collateral,the car,the wife, what ever!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: November 17, 2006 1:23 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is
advice.....
Well I had to say something......plus hopefully start
some controversy to get the list talking again ! :)))
Ben says that he wants to fly right now and I think we
can all relate to that. Many of us can relate to that desire from when
we were very
young---in my case around 6 years old. I flew kites,
rubber band models, control line Cox models, Estes rockets, our parents
large patio
umbrella off the roof of our garage when they weren't
home and of course blowing up old airplane models with
firecrackers......but it took
me until I was 29 years old before I had enough money to
put down $ 3,500 on 1/2 ownership in an Aeronca Champ. Now 1/2
ownership
in a Champ is about $ 12,500 so I can understand where
Ben is coming from so do the decent thing and BEG for a ride or hunt
around
and find a CFI that will let you ride with him in the
back seat while he is giving lessons in a 172. There are ways to fly
now, cheap..but
you have to be a scrapper and be resourceful---just like
when you build a non-kit airplane like a Pietenpol.
Mike C.
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
o
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
Here is my little insignificant story.
I started a Piet about 10 or 12 years ago at my home in PA. When I opened a
shop in SC, I left the Piet parts in PA and started a miniMAX at my new place
in Myrtle Beach. I picked that design because it was wood, easy to build and
would give me some building experience. I even milled all my own wood for
it. I was about 95% done when I had to sell the Max.
Meanwhile, I moved back to PA and started right in with procuring stuff
for the Piet. But in the mean time, I really wanted to get in the
air...cheaply. Almost by accident, while checking out Barnstormers, I hit on the
powered
parachute section. I saw one for $4,900.00, and bought it. I learned to fly
it in about an hour and am having a blast. Sure, it is limited on what it can
do, but what the heck...I'm in the air!
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
I was going to make a similar suggestion, you don't have to buy an old
certified aircraft to fly. If I wanted to have something to fly ASAP and as
cheap as possible while I built my Piet I would buy a used PPC as you
mentioned. No hanger rent (fits in the back of a pickup truck), maintainence
as cheap as it gets, and a couple hundred bucks to learn to fly the thing
versus $3500 for a Sport Pilot or $7000 for a Private Pilot license. True
its not a 'real' airplane but it still get you off the ground. If I wanted
something closer to a 'real' airplane and could afford more I would look for
a used single place ultralight like a CGS Hawk or a Kolb (with folding wings
so it will fit in my garage, wait a minute, theirs no room in my garage, I'm
building my Piet in there, never mind, have to rent a hanger), no stinkin
license required.
Rick
On 11/17/06, Pietsrneat(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> *Here is my little insignificant story. *
> *I started a Piet about 10 or 12 years ago at my home in PA. When I opened
> a shop in SC, I left the Piet parts in PA and started a miniMAX at my new
> place in Myrtle Beach. I picked that design because it was wood, easy to
> build and would give me some building experience. I even milled all my own
> wood for it. I was about 95% done when I had to sell the Max.*
> * Meanwhile, I moved back to PA and started right in with procuring
> stuff for the Piet. But in the mean time, I really wanted to get in the
> air...cheaply. Almost by accident, while checking out Barnstormers, I hit on
> the powered parachute section. I saw one for $4,900.00, and bought it. I
> learned to fly it in about an hour and am having a blast. Sure, it is
> limited on what it can do, but what the heck...I'm in the air!*
> *Ron*
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The correct spelling is advice..... |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
We have a thing up here in Canada called the Quebec garage.It doesn't
cost much.Its made out of an aluminum frame and covered in plastic or
tarp.Just right for a small plane with fold up wings.If you took the
wings off a Piet it would fit right in there and you could put the wings
on either side leaning up against the walls.A lot of guys up here use
them right outside their garage because,yes the garage is filled with
other goodies like snow blowers and rv's and planes being built and on
it goes.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: November 17, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
I was going to make a similar suggestion, you don't have to buy an old
certified aircraft to fly. If I wanted to have something to fly ASAP and
as cheap as possible while I built my Piet I would buy a used PPC as you
mentioned. No hanger rent (fits in the back of a pickup truck),
maintainence as cheap as it gets, and a couple hundred bucks to learn to
fly the thing versus $3500 for a Sport Pilot or $7000 for a Private
Pilot license. True its not a 'real' airplane but it still get you off
the ground. If I wanted something closer to a 'real' airplane and could
afford more I would look for a used single place ultralight like a CGS
Hawk or a Kolb (with folding wings so it will fit in my garage, wait a
minute, theirs no room in my garage, I'm building my Piet in there,
never mind, have to rent a hanger), no stinkin license required.
Rick
On 11/17/06, Pietsrneat(at)aol.com wrote:
Here is my little insignificant story.
I started a Piet about 10 or 12 years ago at my home in PA. When I
opened a shop in SC, I left the Piet parts in PA and started a miniMAX
at my new place in Myrtle Beach. I picked that design because it was
wood, easy to build and would give me some building experience. I even
milled all my own wood for it. I was about 95% done when I had to sell
the Max.
Meanwhile, I moved back to PA and started right in with procuring
stuff for the Piet. But in the mean time, I really wanted to get in the
air...cheaply. Almost by accident, while checking out Barnstormers, I
hit on the powered parachute section. I saw one for $4,900.00, and
bought it. I learned to fly it in about an hour and am having a blast.
Sure, it is limited on what it can do, but what the heck...I'm in the
air!
Ron
www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The correct spelling is advice..... |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
And you can put it in the trunk of a car and take it anywhere you
like.You can even put in on the plane as baggage and go flyin anywhere
you like.Florida,California,you name it.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Sent: November 17, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
Here is my little insignificant story.
I started a Piet about 10 or 12 years ago at my home in PA. When I
opened a shop in SC, I left the Piet parts in PA and started a miniMAX
at my new place in Myrtle Beach. I picked that design because it was
wood, easy to build and would give me some building experience. I even
milled all my own wood for it. I was about 95% done when I had to sell
the Max.
Meanwhile, I moved back to PA and started right in with procuring
stuff for the Piet. But in the mean time, I really wanted to get in the
air...cheaply. Almost by accident, while checking out Barnstormers, I
hit on the powered parachute section. I saw one for $4,900.00, and
bought it. I learned to fly it in about an hour and am having a blast.
Sure, it is limited on what it can do, but what the heck...I'm in the
air!
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
In a message dated 11/17/2006 7:24:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca writes:
And you can put it in the trunk of a car and take it anywhere you like.You
can even put in on the plane as baggage and go flyin anywhere you
like.Florida,California,you name it.
Mine is on a 3 wheeled cart, with a steering bar, instrument panel and other
little bells and whistles. Even came with 2 helmets, GPS, bazillion channel
transceiver, intercom and a trailer to haul it!
Ron
Do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
Ron,
Your the kinda of guy I have a great respect for. You do what what you
have to do. I think flying a powered parachute would be a blast. As
long as your flying,, who cares what your flying? I flew ultralights
for many years and had a blast and as soon as I can afford it I will buy
another one to put next to my Piet (and it just might be a powered
parachute)
Gene
N502R
----- (
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
John:
We are about 100 miles west of St. Louis on the Missouri river at Jefferson
City, the capital of MO.
As to the engine I have found that a also have a mag problem. The mag is one
of the old 4000 series that they just through way. There was never any
repair parts made for them. But we have modified the housing to make it
bigger for the new style condenser, and have just completed that so we
should be able to install the mag with in a couple of weeks and start taxi
tests.
Chet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH
>
>
> Chet,
> I live in Tennessee (half way between Nashville and Memphis) and plan on
> flying to Broadhead with my Piet. Where in Missouri are you? Any luck
> with the engine yet?
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 9:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH
>
>
>>
>>
>> John:
>>
>> I plan to fly MR. Hicks piet to Broadhead this year, but Missouir is a
>> little out of your way. But that does not mean we can not fly there
>> togeather.
>>
>> Chet Hartley
>> N920Y
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca(at)us.army.mil>
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:36 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year. God
>>> willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the
>>> trip. This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there
>>> with a wingman(s)
>>> John
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73963#73963
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
John, Dad and I will more than likely be flying to Brodhead in 07. We fly out
of OH71 wich is a private airport community in Central Ohio. It is on the Detroit
Sectional chart under the name "Chapman Memorial". It is about 20-30 miles
north of columbus. We would Love to join up and fly out togeather. From here
it would be a 1 day all day flight. About 6-8 hrs flight time with fuel stops.
On our last attempt we had about 7 hrs of flying but weather and meccanical
trouble grounded us in Poplar Grove ILL.. I believe Mike C. will be flying
out this year as well. Van Wert OH , in north western Oh would be a good rondevous
point from our 3 home airports. It is easy to find too, Just follow
US rt 30 west all the way, then continue to Chicago.
Hope to join up with all you Ohio area pietenpol'ers
Shad
>> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year. God
>> willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the
>> trip. This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there with
>> a wingman(s)
>> John
>> Pittsburgh
,
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Who's flying to Broadhead 07 from PA, WV, OH |
John, Dad and I will more than likely be flying to Brodhead in 07. We fly out
of OH71 wich is a private airport community in Central Ohio. It is on the Detroit
Sectional chart under the name "Chapman Memorial". It is about 20-30 miles
north of columbus. We would Love to join up and fly out togeather. From here
it would be a 1 day all day flight. About 6-8 hrs flight time with fuel stops.
On our last attempt we had about 7 hrs of flying but weather and meccanical
trouble grounded us in Poplar Grove ILL.. I believe Mike C. will be flying
out this year as well. Van Wert OH , in north western Oh would be a good rondevous
point from our 3 home airports. It is easy to find too, Just follow
US rt 30 west all the way, then continue to Chicago.
Hope to join up with all you Ohio area pietenpol'ers
Shad
>> Who's planning on flying their Pietenpol to Broadhead next year. God
>> willing I should have my Piet ready to go and would like to make the
>> trip. This would be a first time for me and I would rather fly there with
>> a wingman(s)
>> John
>> Pittsburgh
,
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuse questions... |
Fellow Pieters:
Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you build it 3"
or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes is the structural
integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is 6'0 and 254lbs....is the current
size of the plane comfortable? what modification if any have you made to
improve function and comfort of this plane design.
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
---------------------------------
Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
Would highly recommend building a mock cockpit out of scrap wood first as
discussed in the Bengelis books. Will answer all these questions and you
will learn a lot which will make your fuselage go together easier with less
mistakes. I ended up making mine two inches wider, leaned the seat back two
inches, and raised the turtle decks a couple also. Also helps you figure the
best places for controls, cables, and etc.
Rick
On 11/18/06, KMHeide wrote:
>
> Fellow Pieters:
>
> Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you build it
> 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes is the
> structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is 6'0 and
> 254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable? what modification if
> any have you made to improve function and comfort of this plane design.
>
> Ken H.
> Fargo, ND
>
> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.
> Intro-*Terms
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuse questions... |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Absolutely no one that is much bigger than I can get into my cockpit and
be at all comfortable.I did not build the plane and I am happy to say
that I lucked out on it because I just fit in comfortably and I didn't
even try to get in until long after I had bought the aircraft.Something
for buyers to be wary of when looking out there.By the way I am 5'4" and
weigh 207 lbs at this time.Heavy, yes and fully aware of that point and
loosing weight since October when I weighed 222 lbs.The hard or
impossible part for anyone taller than I is to get the knees past the
instrument panel.It is built like a fighter plane and very compact.I
have noticed that I will have to tilt my instrument panel back or pull
the bottom out about an inch or two in order to see the instruments
properly.I am too high in the torso to see it the way I should.Part of a
project for next spring as well as adding a temperature gauge to one of
my cylinder heads.I also found out that my altimeter gauge is busted so
I have to replace that as well.I also have acquired an electrical clock
for an aircraft which I will install with a switch to the battery .I
think it would also be a good idea to install a secondary switch under
the instrument panel out of sight in order to defeat the starter
button.You know how people are at flyins.They like to push buttons and
throw switch and if the right switches are thrown and the proper button
is pushed and someone is near the prop then someone may loose a head or
some other part of their anatomy and that would be tragic.Not to mention
the law suit that would incure. One of the problems of having an
electric start in an open cockpit.No door to lock.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide
Sent: November 18, 2006 4:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
Fellow Pieters:
Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you build
it 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes is the
structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is 6'0 and
254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable? what
modification if any have you made to improve function and comfort of
this plane design.
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.
Intro-*Terms
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
As things are a bit slow on the list, here is an update on my new Piet.
The tail is finished with the special batch of Poly Tone that Stits made
for me. I wanted it to look like leather stretched over a lamp shade
and I am happy with the result, it is transluscent. I fit the wing
center section on last week with temp fittings. Yesterday, I built the
bellcrank assy and it will be installed this week. I am going with
external rigging on the bellcrank. The wings are almost ready for
covering, just some minor puttering left.
Rotec e-mailed me last week. They say there are 3 other Piets now under
construction. I know of 1 in N. Florida who is on the list here. Has
anyone heard of anyone else?
I'm still hoping mine is done for Brodhead.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
As Dick says, since things are slow on the list, here's a video I
made this morning of a circuit of my home airport, Lenora (2GA9). I
haven't figured out how to have YouTube videos come out top quality
(the original looks much better), but you'll get the idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOGRtOpHMs
Just a bit of fluff for those who didn't get to go Pieting today.
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
The video is inspiring; it's the soundtrack that needs a little work.
Couldn't hear the engine music over the wind blast.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Movie
>
> As Dick says, since things are slow on the list, here's a video I
> made this morning of a circuit of my home airport, Lenora (2GA9). I
> haven't figured out how to have YouTube videos come out top quality
> (the original looks much better), but you'll get the idea:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOGRtOpHMs
>
> Just a bit of fluff for those who didn't get to go Pieting today.
>
> Jeff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | looking for Matco brakes |
I'm looking for a pair of new (or like new) Matco MC-5 brake masters. If
you have a pair for sale, email me off-list please.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> |
Nice flight, Jeff. Send me you movies on CD and I can post them on my
website if you want.
I just found this good one by Grant Maclaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Ch9QhwyBY&mode=related&search
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Movie
>
> As Dick says, since things are slow on the list, here's a video I made
> this morning of a circuit of my home airport, Lenora (2GA9). I haven't
> figured out how to have YouTube videos come out top quality (the original
> looks much better), but you'll get the idea:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOGRtOpHMs
>
> Just a bit of fluff for those who didn't get to go Pieting today.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Progress and problems |
The good news is I am making some progress. I got a decent jumpstart
when I bought a tailfeathers set and some ribs for next to nothing from
a great builder. I also started on the fuselage sides, I have one just
about complete. Giant scale R/C experience is helping me a great deal
more than I thought. I have a few pics up at my site:
http://www.subarubrat.com/Pietenpol.htm
The problems, well they all come from Aircraft Spruce (the company). I
had to go around and around with them on various issus. Some of them
being all items other than one being reported as in stock and shipping
from the East coast when that last item came off back order. Later it
was all going to ship from West at a higher rate. They finally shipped
it as promised but when the order arrived they had forgotten the
capstrip. They found where they had messed up and shipped it, however
they shipped the wrong size and I have 500ft of useless capstrip coming.
The spruce kit advertised as being complete (other than having to order
the capstrip seperatly) does not include the leading or trailing edge
stock as well as some other stock. The fuse kit does not include enough
of one size and I have about 6 pieces that don't match any size called
for in the plans or on their cut sheet they sent with the kit. I suppose
I have to call them back Monday and try to get the missing pieces and
capstrip re-done, but honestly I am tired of calling them for problem
after problem.
And one last Aircraft Spruce problem, they substitute 3/4 spars for the
1in spars in the plans saying that some company told them it was OK.
Even if this is true, and I don't trust this much, all the measurements
and clearances (rib spar slots, metal fittings etc.) are intended for
the spar thickness called for in the plans. I am not sure I like the
idea of all those changes to the plans because of some hearsay source.
Anyone else been through this?
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
Inspirational!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Movie
>
>
> Nice flight, Jeff. Send me you movies on CD and I can post them on my
> website if you want.
>
> I just found this good one by Grant Maclaren
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Ch9QhwyBY&mode=related&search
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:30 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Movie
>
>
>>
>> As Dick says, since things are slow on the list, here's a video I made
>> this morning of a circuit of my home airport, Lenora (2GA9). I haven't
>> figured out how to have YouTube videos come out top quality (the original
>> looks much better), but you'll get the idea:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOGRtOpHMs
>>
>> Just a bit of fluff for those who didn't get to go Pieting today.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress and problems |
Scott,
3/4 inch solid spars are perfectly acceptable substitutions for the
routed 1 inch spars.
Use them without worries.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
And one last Aircraft Spruce problem, they substitute 3/4 spars for
the 1in spars in the plans saying that some company told them it was OK.
Even if this is true, and I don't trust this much, all the measurements
and clearances (rib spar slots, metal fittings etc.) are intended for
the spar thickness called for in the plans. I am not sure I like the
idea of all those changes to the plans because of some hearsay source.
Anyone else been through this?
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
I'll second that. I'm certainly not that big but I still widened
my fuselage by two inches, much more comfortable to sit
in and make engine noises!
Here's a couple of pics of my mockup;
http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
Would highly recommend building a mock cockpit out of scrap wood first
as discussed in the Bengelis books. Will answer all these questions and
you will learn a lot which will make your fuselage go together easier
with less mistakes. I ended up making mine two inches wider, leaned the
seat back two inches, and raised the turtle decks a couple also. Also
helps you figure the best places for controls, cables, and etc.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Nice work Dick, how did you do your logo and stripes? They look great.
Rick
On 11/18/06, Dick Navratil wrote:
>
> As things are a bit slow on the list, here is an update on my new Piet.
> The tail is finished with the special batch of Poly Tone that Stits made
> for me. I wanted it to look like leather stretched over a lamp shade and I
> am happy with the result, it is transluscent. I fit the wing center section
> on last week with temp fittings. Yesterday, I built the bellcrank assy and
> it will be installed this week. I am going with external rigging on the
> bellcrank. The wings are almost ready for covering, just some minor
> puttering left.
> Rotec e-mailed me last week. They say there are 3 other Piets now under
> construction. I know of 1 in N. Florida who is on the list here. Has
> anyone heard of anyone else?
> I'm still hoping mine is done for Brodhead.
> Dick N.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress and problems |
I purchased the Piet wood set from ACS. Most people use 3/4" spars, build
the ribs to the plans and add 1/8" ply spacers to the spars at the rib
positions when building your wing. Possibly they don't include cap strip
because some people use 1/4" x 1/4". Yes no leading or trailing edge either.
Many people use cut down Home Depot stair railing for leading edges, I used
Douglas fir for mine and I ripped a single Douglas fir 1/x2 for both
trailing edges. May want to try Wicks as an alternative for ACS.
Rick
On 11/18/06, Scott Schreiber wrote:
>
> The good news is I am making some progress. I got a decent jumpstart when
> I bought a tailfeathers set and some ribs for next to nothing from a great
> builder. I also started on the fuselage sides, I have one just about
> complete. Giant scale R/C experience is helping me a great deal more than I
> thought. I have a few pics up at my site:
> http://www.subarubrat.com/Pietenpol.htm
>
> The problems, well they all come from Aircraft Spruce (the company). I had
> to go around and around with them on various issus. Some of them being all
> items other than one being reported as in stock and shipping from the East
> coast when that last item came off back order. Later it was all going to
> ship from West at a higher rate. They finally shipped it as promised but
> when the order arrived they had forgotten the capstrip. They found
> where they had messed up and shipped it, however they shipped the wrong size
> and I have 500ft of useless capstrip coming. The spruce kit advertised as
> being complete (other than having to order the capstrip seperatly) does not
> include the leading or trailing edge stock as well as some other stock. The
> fuse kit does not include enough of one size and I have about 6 pieces that
> don't match any size called for in the plans or on their cut sheet they sent
> with the kit. I suppose I have to call them back Monday and try to get the
> missing pieces and capstrip re-done, but honestly I am tired of calling them
> for problem after problem.
>
> And one last Aircraft Spruce problem, they substitute 3/4 spars for the
> 1in spars in the plans saying that some company told them it was OK. Even if
> this is true, and I don't trust this much, all the measurements and
> clearances (rib spar slots, metal fittings etc.) are intended for the spar
> thickness called for in the plans. I am not sure I like the idea of all
> those changes to the plans because of some hearsay source. Anyone else been
> through this?
>
> -Scott
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <twilliams(at)mailmt.com> |
I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
elevator, is it really that necessary.
Thanks.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seal Tape |
NX18235 has no gap seals on either the elevator or rudder. I have never
noticed a situation where I felt the rudder or elevator need more authority.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <twilliams(at)mailmt.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seal Tape
>
> I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
> elevator, is it really that necessary.
> Thanks.
> Tim
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seal Tape |
In a message dated 11/19/2006 9:08:55 AM Central Standard Time,
twilliams(at)mailmt.com writes:
I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
elevator, is it really that necessary.
Thanks.
Tim
Tim,
The gap seals on the empenage may not be needed, and Bernard never used them.
However, theoretically, it will reduce drag, add a bit of redundency to the
hinges, and when taking off from some fields, may prevent any sticks or stones
from getting in the hinge area.
I chose to seal the gaps during the covering stage, using the dacron
material, prior to paint. I have some good pictures on my web site, as to how
I
sealed the gaps:
http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/18/2006 7:32:08 PM Central Standard Time,
jboatri(at)emory.edu writes:
As Dick says, since things are slow on the list, here's a video I
made this morning of a circuit of my home airport, Lenora (2GA9). I
haven't figured out how to have YouTube videos come out top quality
(the original looks much better), but you'll get the idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOGRtOpHMs
Jeff,
I would like to copy your idea about putting some video footage on youtube,
but I don't know how to do it, or what format to use. I've been editing down
my 1hr 42min video to as short as possible, to get it on there. It's kinda
difficult to decide what to use, and what to leave out...got any suggestions ?
What format do you use ? What's the longest video you can put up there ?
How much GB or MB can be used ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seal Tape |
The answer to that depends on how wide the gap is. On the Piet I presently
fly, I neglected to route out the tail hinges, so there is a 1" gap. When I
installed the gap seals there was a major difference in the amount of effort
needed to lift the tail on take off run and the plane is now about 2 mph
faster. It's an easy test to try, just apply a strip of duct tape to the
underside to elevators.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <twilliams(at)mailmt.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seal Tape
>
> I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
> elevator, is it really that necessary.
> Thanks.
> Tim
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Rick
The logo wings are thin pieces of cherry. The circle is birch and
stripes and lettering are vinyl.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rotec piet
Nice work Dick, how did you do your logo and stripes? They look great.
Rick
On 11/18/06, Dick Navratil < horzpool(at)goldengate.net> wrote:
As things are a bit slow on the list, here is an update on my new
Piet.
The tail is finished with the special batch of Poly Tone that Stits
made for me. I wanted it to look like leather stretched over a lamp
shade and I am happy with the result, it is transluscent. I fit the
wing center section on last week with temp fittings. Yesterday, I built
the bellcrank assy and it will be installed this week. I am going with
external rigging on the bellcrank. The wings are almost ready for
covering, just some minor puttering left.
Rotec e-mailed me last week. They say there are 3 other Piets now
under construction. I know of 1 in N. Florida who is on the list here.
Has anyone heard of anyone else?
I'm still hoping mine is done for Brodhead.
Dick N.
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Nice movie. That's a fun little dogleg in the trees as you head out. Must
be a one-way strip, judging by the departure and approach from the same end.
We had some good little one-way strips where I used to fly up in Oregon.
Thanks for sharing. The only thing missing was a smoke trail headed out
that little alley of trees ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Don't leave the duct tape on there too long.It can be messy getting it
off later.I used tape that they used for the gaps on the Chinook
ultralight for my airlerones and vertical gap in my rudder but for the
elevator I used ceconite material.I wanted to see how each worked out.I
may land up later replacing the tape with ceconite from what I've been
told.With the tape, because it was sticky only on one side I did both
sides leaving enough tape for movement but with the ceconite ,because I
was gluing it on,I went from the top of the horizontal stab to the
bottom of the elevator.I'm not sure if there is a wrong way to do that
or not,like for instance taking it from the bottom of the horizontal
stab to the top of the elevator.Either way there is a situation there
that could cause eddy currents to materialize hindering flight.It might
if I was flying an F86 but so far from the way I did it I havn't noticed
any problems but then I'm not a test pilot although I did fly my plane
for the first time myself on her maiden fight.Couldn't find any test
pilots.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: November 19, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seal Tape
The answer to that depends on how wide the gap is. On the Piet I
presently
fly, I neglected to route out the tail hinges, so there is a 1" gap.
When I
installed the gap seals there was a major difference in the amount of
effort
needed to lift the tail on take off run and the plane is now about 2 mph
faster. It's an easy test to try, just apply a strip of duct tape to
the
underside to elevators.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <twilliams(at)mailmt.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seal Tape
>
> I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
> elevator, is it really that necessary.
> Thanks.
> Tim
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Oscar (and others),
Thanks for the comments. The strip is sort of one-way in that there
are a couple of reasons to land heading west and take off heading
east. There is a church, quickmart, and concentration of new housing
developments on the west end. There are cow pastures and other open
spaces to the east. Another consideration is that our hangar is on
the west end, so it's a lot easier to taxi out to that end for take
off and taxi in from landing the other other way.
Jeff
>
>Nice movie. That's a fun little dogleg in the trees as you head
>out. Must be a one-way strip, judging by the departure and approach
>from the same end. We had some good little one-way strips where I
>used to fly up in Oregon.
>
>Thanks for sharing. The only thing missing was a smoke trail headed
>out that little alley of trees ;o)
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Clif's website-
http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
If you haven't taken the time to look at it, at the very least scroll to the
bottom of the homepage for the cartoon. Classic! Classic! But just
looking at the work on the handmade throttle quadrant is worth visiting the
site. Thanks, Clif.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Clif's website |
Perfect sentiment for our strip! (Though dogs and deer are more often
the problem).
>
>Clif's website-
>
>http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
>
>If you haven't taken the time to look at it, at the very least
>scroll to the bottom of the homepage for the cartoon. Classic!
>Classic! But just looking at the work on the handmade throttle
>quadrant is worth visiting the site. Thanks, Clif.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seal Tape |
Sealing the aileron gaps with tape made a huge difference in the
handling of our Piet. Without tape, the effect of aileron input was
delayed and when it did happen, resulted in sudden changes in roll.
>
>I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
>elevator, is it really that necessary.
> Thanks.
>Tim
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Chuck,
YouTube is very easy to use. It's free to sign up at
http://www.youtube.com and I don't recall that they want any more
than a username and password from you. As to formats, sizes, etc.,
from their website:
* Videos are limited to 10 minutes (unless you're a
Director) and 100 MB.
* Videos saved with the following settings convert the best:
* MPEG4 (Divx, Xvid) format
* 320x240 resolution
* MP3 audio
* 30 frames per second framerate
Right now, I use Quicktime (.mov) and in Mac iMovies export at CD
quality, but apparently that's not the best format. YouTube is going
to convert (trim down) anyway, so I upload at as high a quality as
possible while staying within the 100 MB limit. Actually, the largest
I've uploaded was 18 MB.
I'm still getting used to the camera and haven't even tried real editing.
I'm also starting to play with Google movies, but I don't know if
it's any better than YouTube.
WARNING: You can spend a lot of time at YouTube. There' a lot there
and it's addictive!! :)
Jeff
>In a message dated 11/18/2006 7:32:08 PM Central Standard Time,
>jboatri(at)emory.edu writes:
>
>As Dick says, since things are slow on the list, here's a video I
>made this morning of a circuit of my home airport, Lenora (2GA9). I
>haven't figured out how to have YouTube videos come out top quality
>(the original looks much better), but you'll get the idea:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHOGRtOpHMs
>
>Jeff,
>I would like to copy your idea about putting some video footage on
>youtube, but I don't know how to do it, or what format to use. I've
>been editing down my 1hr 42min video to as short as possible, to get
>it on there. It's kinda difficult to decide what to use, and what
>to leave out...got any suggestions ?
>What format do you use ? What's the longest video you can put up
>there ? How much GB or MB can be used ?
>
>Chuck G.
>NX770CG
>
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seal Tape |
Tim,
only way your going to know for sure is to try it both ways. I like using
gap seal tape made out of vinyl. I buy mine from a sign company (it's what
they make letters out of and comes in many colors). I cuts strips, then
take the paper backing off half of the width of the strips and stick two
strips togeather. That way you end up with sticky side on both sides of
one/half of the width of the tape. Peel off one/half of the backing and
apply to the top, route the other half down thru the gap and fix to the
other side. Done. I've been able to find colors that will match my paint
and it really looks nice.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seal Tape
>
> Sealing the aileron gaps with tape made a huge difference in the handling
> of our Piet. Without tape, the effect of aileron input was delayed and
> when it did happen, resulted in sudden changes in roll.
>
>>
>>I'd like to some opinions on using gap seal tape on the rudder and
>>elevator, is it really that necessary.
>> Thanks.
>>Tim
>
>
> --
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Atlanta, GA 30322
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
> http://www.molvis.org/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | PS- Clif's website (watch out for Mike!) |
Clif- you'd better watch out for Mike "The Spelling Cop" Cuy in case he
notices that "Pietenpol" is misspelled in the link to your page-
http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
He's been a little tough on misspellings here lately ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
In a message dated 11/17/2006 8:15:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
zharvey(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Ron,
Your the kinda of guy I have a great respect for. You do what you have to
do. I think flying a powered parachute would be a blast. As long as your
flying,, who cares what your flying? I flew ultralights for many years and had
a blast and as soon as I can afford it I will buy another one to put next to
my Piet (and it just might be a powered parachute)
Gene
N502R
Gene,
I appreciate the kind comment. However, I do want to say that nothing, in
my mind, will take the place of the Piet. I have been captivated by the
plane for many years. I first saw it in an aviation publication, with the Model
A
engine and thought, "Wow, that is the coolest thing I have ever seen."
So I sent for the plans. When they arrived, I strolled out to my
workshop, about 100 feet from my house, to check them out for an hour or so. As
I
started my walk back to the house, I heard the sound of an aircraft, obviously
low and slow, over my head. I looked up (like I always do when any aircraft
flies by) and what do you think it was?Yes, a Pietenpol! To this day, that is
still the ONLY Piet I have ever seen "in person". So I sort of knew it was
meant to be that I chose this design.
And what a great bunch of fellow Piet fanatics to associate with. Good
mentors, fun to talk to and brimming with info to share. It doesn't get any
better.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Fellow Piet'ers,
I have a question for everyone, what type of varnish is everyone using? What I
would like to know is also, why can't regular thompson wood sealer be used if
a person was going to apply 3 coats or so? thanks and just an update on my project
I will be meeting my dad out at Robb's place (building partner) to draw
the plans up to full scale tomorrow (11/20/06). I will also be putting a website
together to so where I am at with the project.
take care,
Ben
St. Cloud, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ben;
Like Chuck Gantzer, I have used Ace spar varnish (from your Ace hardware
store) on wood repairs to NX41CC. It's quite thin so needs several coats
but I love the smell of the hangar after I varnish something so I don't
mind. I found that if you shake the can the varnish sometimes has tiny
bubbles when you apply it, but it's thin enough that the bubbles disappear
as it dries. Purists say "stirred, not shaken", but I'm too impatient so I
shake the can.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
Microsoft Office Live
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
A few pictures from the fly-in. You local guys have to make the next one,
this was really a lot of fun.
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/061119flyin/Pb180078.jpg
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/061119flyin/Dsc02871.jpg
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/061119flyin/YellaFellas.jpg
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/061119flyin/Pb1800671.jpg
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Ruse
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oklahoma Fly-in
I am having a fly-in this weekend at O44 (Oscar44) south of Norman, OK.
Everyone is welcome...its a good 'ol grass strip where my plane is based.
We'll have BBQ and a good time. More details here:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
--
--
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Those are great air-to-air shots. Looks like you guys had a severe
clear day! What were the temps?
>
>A few pictures from the fly-in. You local guys have to make the next one,
>this was really a lot of fun.
>
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Atlanta, GA 30322
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
http://www.molvis.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: PS- Clif's website (watch out for Mike!) |
Weird! Well I'll just have to go in and fix it.
I haven't updated the thing for a while, just
too busy, I've got a bunch more stuff to add
to a number of pages and a couple new ones
to create. Time! time! time!
Thanks for the compliments. You guys can
download those nasty cows if you want. I
made it for the rest of you Pieters.
Clif
Yoohoo! Hi Miky! :-) :0)
> Clif- you'd better watch out for Mike "The Spelling Cop" Cuy in case he
> notices that "Pietenpol" is misspelled in the link to your page-
> http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
>
> He's been a little tough on misspellings here lately ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
> list.
>
>
> --
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oklahoma Fly-in |
In a message dated 11/19/2006 9:14:02 PM Central Standard Time,
steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes:
A few pictures from the fly-in. You local guys have to make the next one,
this was really a lot of fun.
Hey Steve,
I'm going to make it down there one of these days. I had to work this
weekend...kinda chilly for that flight anyways.
Great pictures !!
Is that a big long com antenna sticking down in front of the landing gear ?
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Why? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support
from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
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regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate
the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter
once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
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be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments
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Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
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And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer
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posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa.
The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and
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members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various
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I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
In a message dated 11/19/2006 7:31:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com writes:
I looked up (like I always do when any aircraft flies by) and what do you
think it was?Yes, a Pietenpol!
"Flies" by? Sometimes I crack myself up.
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | You Tube and Google Video |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Man guys, Jeff Boatright is absolutely right about You Tube and Google
Video being addictive. There is just about anything that might
interest you
on there. I like to type in things that I have not been able to try
to do yet---things like hang gliding, parasailing, ski jumping, and
more. I've never driven
the 7 mile bridge in the Keys so whala, there's a couple who posted a
view of driving that stretch. A fun one to type in in r/c crash or
r/c accident.
Some of the footage these r/c guys (like our own DJ Vegh) shoot from
their aerial platforms is just great----with side to side pan
capabilities and all.
You like Model A's ? Type in Model a running or Model A start up.
Same for Corvair's, Subaru's, you name it. You can spend mucho
amounts of
time on those two web sites !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> |
Hi Dick!
Do you have any photos of your engine install? I am thinking to use a Rotec
Radial on my Piet too!
Best Regards,
Dave Abramson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick Navratil
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rotec piet
As things are a bit slow on the list, here is an update on my new Piet.
The tail is finished with the special batch of Poly Tone that Stits made for
me. I wanted it to look like leather stretched over a lamp shade and I am
happy with the result, it is transluscent. I fit the wing center section on
last week with temp fittings. Yesterday, I built the bellcrank assy and it
will be installed this week. I am going with external rigging on the
bellcrank. The wings are almost ready for covering, just some minor
puttering left.
Rotec e-mailed me last week. They say there are 3 other Piets now under
construction. I know of 1 in N. Florida who is on the list here. Has
anyone heard of anyone else?
I'm still hoping mine is done for Brodhead.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oklahoma Fly-in |
I hope you can make the next one, we are looking at February as a
possibility. We desperately need a smoking Piet here!
Yes, that is a comm antenna that I installed on the bottom of the
nose. I wanted it inside the fuse, and may do that eventually, but it
works great in that location as there was already sheet metal for a
ground plane there. I have transmitted up to 90 miles air to air
using my 5 watt handheld! I can regularly transmit 40 miles air to
air. I made it with some brass brazing rod and nylon insulators from
Home Depot, and a pre-terminated RG-58 cable from the local
electronics shop. Total cost was under $10!
Steve
Quoting Rcaprd(at)aol.com:
> In a message dated 11/19/2006 9:14:02 PM Central Standard Time,
> steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes:
> A few pictures from the fly-in. You local guys have to make the next one,
> this was really a lot of fun.
> Hey Steve,
> I'm going to make it down there one of these days. I had to work this
> weekend...kinda chilly for that flight anyways.
> Great pictures !!
> Is that a big long com antenna sticking down in front of the landing gear ?
>
> Chuck G.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuse questions... |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
A couple of concerns, Ken,
I made my Pietenpol 1" wider than plans, and used the long fuselage
plans. The result is a pretty heavy Pietenpol (empty weight 745 lbs),
which climbs even worse than usual for a Piet. There are a couple of
problems with the long, wide fuselage. The first is weight. SOme years
ago, someone on this list compiled a list of Pietenpols at Brodhead,
comparing their empty weights and CG locations. Every one of the long
fuselage Piets came in at over 700 lbs, and a couple were over 800 lbs.
You wouldn't think that adding 9" or so would add 50 to 100 lbs, but it
seems to do so. Making it wider adds substantial weight as well. The
other problem with a wider fuselage is in expense. With a 24" wide
fuselage, you can use a single sheet of plywood ripped lengthwise for
the floorboards and firewall. If you make it wider, you will use a lot
more plywood, with substantial waste.
The Pietenpol is supposed to have a gross weight of about 1050 lbs. If
you weigh 254 lbs, and carry 10 gallons of gas, your airplane can only
weigh 736 lbs EMPTY, and you'd probably better not plan on carrying any
passengers. I have flown mine with myself and a 205 lb passenger, and
15 gallons of fuel on board, for a gross weight of 1,240 lbs. It flew,
but I was glad we were flying off a 6,000' paved runway. Climb rate was
a shade under 100 feet per minute.
If I were to build another one, I would build the short fuselage and
keep it standard width. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs, and I've flown Mike Cuy's
standard width, short fuse Piet and found it nearly as comfortable as my
own, with a better climb rate.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:42 PM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
Fellow Pieters:
Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would
you build it 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major
changes is the structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy
who is 6'0 and 254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable?
what modification if any have you made to improve function and comfort
of this plane design.
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone would object to using 2 pictures from the pictures
gallery to put on my website! I will give the URL here on the forum when I
am ready!
thanks,
Ben R.
St. Cloud, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling |
Their our to many possible errors in are language two go too. People
should remember there education when they go they're.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
Sorry Harvey, but flys just isn't proper English (in the U.S., nor in
Canada). (here's a link to a quick explanation)
[snip]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuse questions... |
MessageJack,
I don't agree. I built the long fuse with an A-65 and 99.9% to plans.
My empty weight was 595#.
I was lucky to have a Mentor that was a stickler for not adding
anything.
I can't believe that 1" of 1/4 plywood and various fuse sticks account
for 100#. Think you must have beefed here and there, and added one too
many goodies.
You know the old saying,,,"thinking of adding something that's not on
the plans? Throw it up,,,if it comes back down,,,leave it off"
Our strip is 2,550ft of asphalt. The Regs say that you have to be 400'
and to the end of the runway before you make your turn climbing out.
With just me (6'3" 210#) and 1/2 gas load I'll pass 400' before
reaching the end of the runway.
Now put my friend Bob in the front and it climbs kind of like a cub.
Hard to imagine a Piet built 200# heavy, and that would be a climbout
with just me.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
A couple of concerns, Ken,
I made my Pietenpol 1" wider than plans, and used the long fuselage
plans. The result is a pretty heavy Pietenpol (empty weight 745 lbs),
which climbs even worse than usual for a Piet. There are a couple of
problems with the long, wide fuselage. The first is weight. SOme years
ago, someone on this list compiled a list of Pietenpols at Brodhead,
comparing their empty weights and CG locations. Every one of the long
fuselage Piets came in at over 700 lbs, and a couple were over 800 lbs.
You wouldn't think that adding 9" or so would add 50 to 100 lbs, but it
seems to do so. Making it wider adds substantial weight as well. The
other problem with a wider fuselage is in expense. With a 24" wide
fuselage, you can use a single sheet of plywood ripped lengthwise for
the floorboards and firewall. If you make it wider, you will use a lot
more plywood, with substantial waste.
The Pietenpol is supposed to have a gross weight of about 1050 lbs.
If you weigh 254 lbs, and carry 10 gallons of gas, your airplane can
only weigh 736 lbs EMPTY, and you'd probably better not plan on carrying
any passengers. I have flown mine with myself and a 205 lb passenger,
and 15 gallons of fuel on board, for a gross weight of 1,240 lbs. It
flew, but I was glad we were flying off a 6,000' paved runway. Climb
rate was a shade under 100 feet per minute.
If I were to build another one, I would build the short fuselage and
keep it standard width. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs, and I've flown Mike Cuy's
standard width, short fuse Piet and found it nearly as comfortable as my
own, with a better climb rate.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:42 PM
To: Pietenpol
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions...
Fellow Pieters:
Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you
build it 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes
is the structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is
6'0 and 254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable? what
modification if any have you made to improve function and comfort of
this plane design.
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oklahoma Fly-in |
In a message dated 11/20/2006 10:06:37 AM Central Standard Time,
steve(at)wotelectronics.com writes:
I hope you can make the next one, we are looking at February as a
possibility. We desperately need a smoking Piet here!
Yes, that is a comm antenna that I installed on the bottom of the
nose. I wanted it inside the fuse, and may do that eventually, but it
works great in that location as there was already sheet metal for a
ground plane there. I have transmitted up to 90 miles air to air
using my 5 watt handheld! I can regularly transmit 40 miles air to
air. I made it with some brass brazing rod and nylon insulators from
Home Depot, and a pre-terminated RG-58 cable from the local
electronics shop. Total cost was under $10!
Steve
February !! Holy Crap !! That would be a very chilly flight !! I would
have to be bundled up so much, it would cause a lot of extra drag, if I could
even fit in my plans width, 632 lb. short fuselage. At least there wouldn't be
any flys..or is it flies...or is it fly's out buzzing around :)
I made an antenna from coax cable, that I separated the two leads, and
stretched them apart under the turtle deck, totaling 42". I have an ICOM -5
Handheld, but I don't think it will broadcast 40 miles, but it does well in any
local flying area...with a typical south wind I would call:
"Norman Field, Zero Charlie Golf is Forty miles north, inbound for
landing...in about an hour"
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress and problems |
Rick, As far as I am concerned I would rather deal with Wicks than A.S.S. (WOW!
thats a appropriate abriviation). I usually deal with Wicks on lumber and usually
recieve it in a couple of weeks. Although I am building a Jungster 1 not
a Piet, it is all wood and all my spruce has been purchased from Wicks. I
don't know whats been going on with A.S.S. lately but I have heard a lot of complaints
about them as far as lumber orders, from screwed up orders to lack of
customer service. On a side note 3/4 in spars are more than enough, Take a look
at a Taylorcraft spar. They are longer and only 1/2 in thick, and the root
end spar plates for wing attatch fittings are beveled down even more to keep
the 1/8 in ply flush with the rest of the spar.
My 2 cents
Shad
---------------------------------
Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
Helo Group, Dad and I were talking the other day about possibly organizing an a
gathering of Pietenpols from the Ohio area. We thought this would be a fun event
for people who would love to fly to Brodhead but can't find the time to make
the trip due to occupational or logistical reasons, as Brodhead can be a long
long trip if weather takes an unexpected turn. I was just wondering how many
of you would be interested in attending an Ohio Piet fly-in. I was thinking
of one easy way to do this would be to keep touch next spring and meet up close
to another sceduled fly in in the area fly in as a group. This would be
a fun alternate to those who can't make it to Brodhead, and an added bonus to
those who do make it to Brodhead. A few of the area fly-ins that come to mind
are the Taylorcraft fly-in At Barber Field in Alliance, The WACO fly-in at Wyncoop
in Mt Vernon Ohio, or any other grass airport fly-ins you all may know of.
These airports would all be within 2-3 hrs
flight time from almost anywhere in Ohio, and you could even sleep in your own
bed that night.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gap Seal Tape |
Gene,
What a great idea! I'm in the sign business...I should have thought of
that. The crappiest vinyl I carry is guaranteed for five years (under normal
circumstances). It is very durable. Also, the adhesive is quite tenacious and
should hold 'till the cows come home.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
You are right, Bill. It just didn't look right to me after I posted it. I
should have more confidence in myself.
Ron
Doo nut arkive
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Dave
Go to www.rotecradialengines.com Look for the tab on the left side of
their site titled "Dicks Pietenpol" They have pics there.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Abramson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rotec piet
Hi Dick!
Do you have any photos of your engine install? I am thinking to use a
Rotec Radial on my Piet too!
Best Regards,
Dave Abramson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dick
Navratil
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:07 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rotec piet
As things are a bit slow on the list, here is an update on my new
Piet.
The tail is finished with the special batch of Poly Tone that Stits
made for me. I wanted it to look like leather stretched over a lamp
shade and I am happy with the result, it is transluscent. I fit the
wing center section on last week with temp fittings. Yesterday, I built
the bellcrank assy and it will be installed this week. I am going with
external rigging on the bellcrank. The wings are almost ready for
covering, just some minor puttering left.
Rotec e-mailed me last week. They say there are 3 other Piets now
under construction. I know of 1 in N. Florida who is on the list here.
Has anyone heard of anyone else?
I'm still hoping mine is done for Brodhead.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I was just thinking the same thing lately. I'd really like to help try to organize
some kind of gathering in Ohio. There are several active Piet pilots in
Ohio and I think we could make a decent showing. A few would include Will Graff,
Mike Cuy, Frank Pavliga, Virgil Phillips, you and me, and I'm sure there's
more. I'm sure the Barbers would accomodate us and their EAA chapter at the
field would always like to sell more pancakes. I could talk to Forrest and get
his opinion. They may be interested in hosting us. Or we could just plan to
gather at another. The Taylorcraft and Aeronca fly-ins at Barber may work.
Wynkoop field is a beautiful one and would be a good one to meet at for the Waco
fly-in too. I think both of those have hosted Pietenpol Fly-ins in the past.
Both are grass an' gas. Any other Buckeyes out there have any other suggestions?
Let us know.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76006#76006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
Hi Everyone,
I've pretty much been off-list and not building for quite a while,
but forced unemployment has gotten me motivated to get back to work
on my project, and since I had all the materials at hand to build
ribs, I'm finishing up my jig & back at it.
Anyway, I'd like to say that EAA Chapter 82 would be more than happy
to host a gaggle of Piets, and any of the Fly-ins at Barber would be
appropriate. Personally, I'd like to see that coordinated with our
Corvair Fly-In, a new event a Barber that we started this year (due
to bad weather, we had lots of Corvairs in cars, only one on an
airplane, but I hope we'll do better next year). I'm advocating a
change of date to some to time later in the summer, as weather in NE
Ohio is always iffy in June.
Anyway, This is just to let you all know that we have an event at
Barber that would LOVE to have the presence of Pietenpols (especially
ones with Corvairs, but we won't be choosy :). If the consensus of
regional folks is that Barber would be a good choice, let me know &
I'll bring it up at a chapter meeting.
>
>I was just thinking the same thing lately. I'd really like to help
>try to organize some kind of gathering in Ohio. There are several
>active Piet pilots in Ohio and I think we could make a decent
>showing. A few would include Will Graff, Mike Cuy, Frank Pavliga,
>Virgil Phillips, you and me, and I'm sure there's more. I'm sure
>the Barbers would accomodate us and their EAA chapter at the field
>would always like to sell more pancakes. I could talk to Forrest
>and get his opinion. They may be interested in hosting us. Or we
>could just plan to gather at another. The Taylorcraft and Aeronca
>fly-ins at Barber may work. Wynkoop field is a beautiful one and
>would be a good one to meet at for the Waco fly-in too. I think
>both of those have hosted Pietenpol Fly-ins in the past. Both are
>grass an' gas. Any other Buckeyes out there have any other
>suggestions? Let us know.
>Don Emch
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76006#76006
>
>
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
There is one less fly-in now, as many of you know. The SAA (Sport Aviation
Association) has ceased to be, per e-newsletter to members from Paul
Poberezny a week or two ago. The SAA fly-in at Frasca Field will no longer
be held. So... something else should step up and replace it, right?
Something off a grass strip, family-friendly, no airshow, no commercial
advertisements or bizjets.
Oscar Zuniga (SAA #1001)
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
You can count me in. I am one state away in PA.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/20/2006 10:20:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:
Dave
Go to _www.rotecradialengines.com_ (http://www.rotecradialengines.com/)
Look for the tab on the left side of their site titled "Dicks Pietenpol" They
have pics there.
Dick
That is a SHARP Piet! That engine looks great.
Ron
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
What kind of engine did Jack phillips use to get that poor performance?
I am building the long f uselage and 2 inches wider with a corvair
engine. I don't expect it to be a rocket, but it should do better than
he described. I have a cessna 140 with a C90 and with 1450 max gross it
climbs at 600fpm. Gardiner Mason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kirk, Bruce" <bkirk(at)yccd.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
I live at an airport with an elevation of 3125' elevation
and in the summer it gets very hot.
What if any are the options of operating a Pietenpol in
and out of a strip with high density
altitudes. Do I turbo the c-85, or stick a bigger engine
on, or change props or even move to a lower elevation (no
really an option)?
Thanks
Bruce Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | High Altitude Performance. |
I am suprised the following post did not elict more responses from the
Ford A fliers on the list. After all the correct spelling of advice had
almost thirty relies. Kevin
Hi, Do you seasoned Piet Pilots with Ford A power think an "A" can be
modified enough to put out the power needed to fly a long fuselage Piet
at it's max gross weight in the Summer out of an airport with 4,000 feet
elevation? Lots of density altitude. Runway length will be plenty 5,500
feet. If so what engine and/or airframe modifications would you guys
recommend? Thanks, Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Carl Vought's projects for sale |
OK, I'm just the messenger. Contact information on Carl's projects follows
=====================================
For sale in Huntsville, Alabama (must pick up in the next few weeks).
One Pietenpol on gear, maybe 75% complete, but lacking engine and
instruments (the red one shown at http://www.krnet.org/piet ). Built by Ray
Loritz??? of Chicago. Carl wouldn't have bought it had it not been nice.
Price is what Carl paid for it (not counting airline tickets and moving it
from Chicago)...$4800.
Another white one (unpainted) that's at least 90% done built by mechanical
engineer Carl Vought of Huntsville, Alabama (who recently passed away).
It's also shown at http://www.krnet.org/piet . The workmanship on Carl's
plane is impressive. The Model A engine goes with it. C arl knew as much
about aircraft engines as anybody on this planet, and designed and built the
"Buddy Twin" two cylinder ultralight engine a few years back. You can rest
assured that this engine was meticulously rebuilt, and is all back together
except that the head (which appears to be new) isn't bolted on yet.
Finishing up the engine was the last hurdle before Carl could fly the
airplane, and he had every intention of doing that before pneumonia
unexpectedly cut his life short. The price for this one is $8000, which is
only the price of parts for which receipts could be found. Everything that
looks like it's part of this plane is included.
We all know that this is a bargain, so these prices are pretty firm. Please
contact Bob Luther at 256-881-2245, or at cell phone 256-508-8533. We would
like to sell these planes in their entirety to one or two buyers and call it
done, so please don't ask to buy parts and pieces.
----------------------------------------------------
your messenger,
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on a hot day. Am going
with a Corvair (100 HP), will let you know if it's enough. I have flown 150s
(also 100 HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a passenger from
similiar altitude airports and did ok so it should be enough.
Rick
On 11/21/06, Kirk, Bruce wrote:
>
>
> I live at an airport with an elevation of 3125' elevation
> and in the summer it gets very hot.
> What if any are the options of operating a Pietenpol in
> and out of a strip with high density
> altitudes. Do I turbo the c-85, or stick a bigger engine
> on, or change props or even move to a lower elevation (no
> really an option)?
> Thanks
> Bruce Kirk
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
It sounds like Barber could work. Making it a Pietenpol/Corvair Fly-in might be
a good idea. I'll bet we could get a showing of Ford, Corvair, and Continental
powered ships without too much arm twisting. If we advertise we might get
more than just Buckeyes there too. With the nice weather forecast this week
I may try to fly over and see Forrest and see what he thinks and if others like
the idea, maybe you could bring it up at a chapter meeting Kip. What do you
think Shad?
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76246#76246
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
Don't forget the difference in wing area.
And don't forget, that 100 hp Lyc or Continental
started out life at the factory door with only 80
true horsepower.
Put those two together and what do you get?
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude airport
My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on a hot day. Am
going with a Corvair (100 HP), will let you know if it's enough. I have
flown 150s (also 100 HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a
passenger from similiar altitude airports and did ok so it should be
enough.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
| From: | "Rock-a-Wing" <john.rocca(at)us.army.mil> |
Count me in too [Laughing]
John
Pittsburgh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76265#76265
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Weight & Balance |
Hi Guys,
This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you move
the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back CG
moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi, Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
--
10:36 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the airfoil's
center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move the
wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than the cg.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you move
> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back
> CG
> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi, Australia
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | High at. performance |
.......do you seasoned Model A fliers......? I think the question
didn't elicit much response is because there are very few (if any )
Model A fliers on the list. I think there are a lot of Model A builders
here, but few (if any ) fliers . The one thing that gets repeated often
is that the reliability of the A is in direct proportion to the amount
of hop up you do. Some of A guys have good success with this engine.
Others don't and throw in the towel and go with a Cont. or something.
Ken Perkins does well with his hopped up A, but has his share of forced
landings. I don't know what to tell you since I haven't flown yet,
except keep it LIGHT. Remember the stock A is only about 40 hp. It
seams to fly a lot of Piets ok, but with little margin. My field alt. is
1500 ft and I am getting religion praying that my A will work good, Leon
S. in Ks. with a Cont. 65 in the corner gathering dust..just in case.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage taper point |
| From: | "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> |
Ken Heide and I were discussing the "wide fuselage" options last night while gluing
up the last of four fuse sides. Has anyone ever moved the taper start point
to the back of the rear seat instead of at the station ahead of it? What
would the issue be of keeping the 24" dimension all the way back to that point?
We are building the long fuselage version and tested one side last night to
be sure that it would pull in with the shorter distance. This change would be
a very minimal structural change but would effectively widen the rear cockpit
by 2" at the pilot's shoulders.
Let the discussion begin! We are looking for pro's and con's about this possible
solution.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
Rick, Dad's corvair was putting out somewhere in the 90-100hp range with a marvel
scebler ma3spa carb and no blower fan. We are located at about 1000msl in
central Ohio and even on a hot day (90 +) with full fuel and me (180lbs, empty
wt 732lbs with batt and starter), I can get an initial climb of 600 -700ft/min.
That would put the gross wt at about....990lbs. On a 90 deg day during the
test phase I climbed to 8000msl and had no problems and was still getting 200
ft/min est. as alt increased. It may have got better if we had a mixture control
but that is too high out here in Ohio for practical flights,I was up there
just to see if It would do it, and to cool off. Besides airliners coming in
to Port Columbus Airport (20 miles south) get a little to big in the windscreen
for my taste. I would guess with a single person and 10 gal of "go juice"
It will climb like a heavy 150. The other good thing is at 50-55mph your not
covering as much ground as you would in a 150
climbing at 75-80mph, so that runway is still below you for just a little longer
if you need it.
My 2 cents worth,
Shad
Clif Dawson wrote:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude airport
My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on a hot day. Am going with
a Corvair (100 HP), will let you know if it's enough. I have flown 150s (also
100 HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a passenger from similiar altitude
airports and did ok so it should be enough.
Rick
---------------------------------
Rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Loan for $1698/mo - Calculate new house payment
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ohio area pietenpol gathering |
Don, That sounds good. I usually fly over to Wyncoop (12miles away) to get fuel,as
I live on a private strip/ community in Centerburg (Chpman Memorial), and
we dont have fuel here. If Barber doesn't work out I can ask Wyncoop about having
it co-inside with the Waco fllys'ziz-in (ha ha). I even thought about asking
the airport owner here at Chapman if we could have it here. I have about
1 acre behind my hanger to park piets. But I am guessing Bill See the airport
owner won't like the idea (insurance reasons I suppose). But if any of you
would like to fly into chapman I AM allowed to invite you, and piets are always
welcome, and there is plenty of grass, 3100ft 28/10 runways and it is pretty
smooth. By the way if Barber doesn't host it or we all want to meet at the waco
fly-in also, bring a check or cash for the fuel at Wyncoop, as they don't
accept plastic. However they have the best price on 100LL I saw all last summer.
I believe it was only $2.20/ Gal, compared to
an average of 3.00-3.50/ gal. Well group I am glad you all share the interest
of a more local piet gathering. We might just have to meet up and do high speed
(80mph)fly -by's in tandem at the local fly-in's one after the other like
the RV guys. ( "Aircamper Overcast"). BOY, they would get mad! It would steal
all there thunder to see a "Rag Bag" mock them there fast aeroplanes.
Sorry to get so excited, haven't flown the Piet for a few months,
Shad
Don Emch wrote:
It sounds like Barber could work. Making it a Pietenpol/Corvair Fly-in might be
a good idea. I'll bet we could get a showing of Ford, Corvair, and Continental
powered ships without too much arm twisting. If we advertise we might get more
than just Buckeyes there too. With the nice weather forecast this week I may
try to fly over and see Forrest and see what he thinks and if others like the
idea, maybe you could bring it up at a chapter meeting Kip. What do you think
Shad?
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76246#76246
---------------------------------
Mortgage rates near historic lows: $150,000 loan as low as $579/mo. Intro-*Terms
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
| From: | Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
Guys,
The Koch chart gives a pretty good idea of how performance is
affected at higher altitude airports. A quick look at the chart show an
aircraft that climbs at 500 fpm from a 50 degree sea level airport will
climb at about 200 fpm from a 50 degree 6000' airport. (At 100 degrees
it will drop to around 100 fpm.)
Tom Bernie
> Rick, Dad's corvair was putting out somewhere in the 90-100hp range
> with a marvel scebler ma3spa carb and no blower fan. We are located
> at about 1000msl in central Ohio and even on a hot day (90 +) with
> full fuel and me (180lbs, empty wt 732lbs with batt and starter), I
> can get an initial climb of 600 -700ft/min. That would put the gross
> wt at about....990lbs. On a 90 deg day during the test phase I
> climbed to 8000msl and had no problems and was still getting 200
> ft/min est. as alt increased. It may have got better if we had a
> mixture control but that is too high out here in Ohio for practical
> flights,I was up there just to see if It would do it, and to cool off.
> Besides airliners coming in to Port Columbus Airport (20 miles south)
> get a little to big in the windscreen for my taste. I would guess
> with a single person and 10 gal of "go juice" It will climb like a
> heavy 150. The other good thing is at 50-55mph your not covering as
> much ground as you would in a 150 climbing at 75-80mph, so that runway
> is still below you for just a little longer if you need it.
> My 2 cents worth,
> Shad
>
> Clif Dawson wrote:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude
> airport
>
>
> My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on
> a hot day. Am going with a Corvair (100 HP), will let
> you know if it's enough. I have flown 150s (also 100
> HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a
> passenger from similiar altitude airports and did ok
> so it should be enough.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
Greg,
Nah, forward.
Peter,
Don't think of it as moving the wing back, but rather moving the fuselage
forward.
So the imaginary point , on the wing, that the whole plane would teeter
on, before moving, would be in an exact spot.
After you moved the fuselage forward, now you'd have to pick a spot further
forward to balance everything.
hope this makes sense.
If you have Windows Excel I can send you a small program, given to me,
where you can just plug in all the numbers and see the final result to any
plane
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
> The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the airfoil's
> center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
> To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move the
> wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than the
> cg.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you
>> move
>> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back
>> CG
>> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Peter
>> Wonthaggi, Australia
>> http://www.cpc-world.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 10:36 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Weight & Balance |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
We used the hub on the prop as our datum point.AME said mathematically
that's the best because then it's just a matter of adding .(if my memory
serves me right)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
evans
Sent: November 22, 2006 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
Greg,
Nah, forward.
Peter,
Don't think of it as moving the wing back, but rather moving the
fuselage
forward.
So the imaginary point , on the wing, that the whole plane would
teeter
on, before moving, would be in an exact spot.
After you moved the fuselage forward, now you'd have to pick a spot
further
forward to balance everything.
hope this makes sense.
If you have Windows Excel I can send you a small program, given to me,
where you can just plug in all the numbers and see the final result to
any
plane
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
> The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the
airfoil's
> center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
> To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move
the
> wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than
the
> cg.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you
>> move
>> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing
back
>> CG
>> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Peter
>> Wonthaggi, Australia
>> http://www.cpc-world.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 10:36 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Weight & Balance |
Walt,
Thats what I am hoping. I would appreciate a copy of your spreadsheet. I
have made one myself but would be good to see how you have done it.
Thanks
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2006 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
Greg,
Nah, forward.
Peter,
Don't think of it as moving the wing back, but rather moving the fuselage
forward.
So the imaginary point , on the wing, that the whole plane would teeter
on, before moving, would be in an exact spot.
After you moved the fuselage forward, now you'd have to pick a spot further
forward to balance everything.
hope this makes sense.
If you have Windows Excel I can send you a small program, given to me,
where you can just plug in all the numbers and see the final result to any
plane
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
> The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the airfoil's
> center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
> To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move the
> wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than the
> cg.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you
>> move
>> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back
>> CG
>> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Peter
>> Wonthaggi, Australia
>> http://www.cpc-world.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> 10:36 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
10:36 PM
--
10:36 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
Peter,
Sure, I guess I can put on this reply.
I didn't make it up. Someone in this group or the Fisher Flying Products
group shared it with me.
See if it downloads all four.
I did four different setups, for all possible modes. Everything from max
plane, to light pilot with heavy fuel, to heavy pilot with low fuel.
It's a great little program, just highlite the square and change the value.
Hit enter and the bottom line changes.
I used the prop hub tip as the datum. So the distance from there to the
leading edge plus the "window" on the wing , gave the final result.
Say you want to add an instrument,,,,you can "add" it on paper and see the
result, before you put it on.
If you're designing a new plane, you put the people in the seats measuring
at where the navel is in the seat. (actually they call out something else,
but this is a family group) :^)
Have fun
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Walt,
>
> Thats what I am hoping. I would appreciate a copy of your spreadsheet. I
> have made one myself but would be good to see how you have done it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
> Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2006 5:48 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Greg,
> Nah, forward.
>
> Peter,
> Don't think of it as moving the wing back, but rather moving the fuselage
> forward.
> So the imaginary point , on the wing, that the whole plane would teeter
> on, before moving, would be in an exact spot.
> After you moved the fuselage forward, now you'd have to pick a spot
> further
>
> forward to balance everything.
> hope this makes sense.
> If you have Windows Excel I can send you a small program, given to me,
> where you can just plug in all the numbers and see the final result to any
> plane
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
> Ben Franklin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
>>
>> The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the airfoil's
>> center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
>> To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move the
>> wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than the
>> cg.
>>
>> Greg C.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you
>>> move
>>> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back
>>> CG
>>> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> Wonthaggi, Australia
>>> http://www.cpc-world.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 10:36 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Weight & Balance |
Walt,
Thanks very much, I'll give them a try.
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
Peter,
Sure, I guess I can put on this reply.
I didn't make it up. Someone in this group or the Fisher Flying Products
group shared it with me.
See if it downloads all four.
I did four different setups, for all possible modes. Everything from max
plane, to light pilot with heavy fuel, to heavy pilot with low fuel.
It's a great little program, just highlite the square and change the value.
Hit enter and the bottom line changes.
I used the prop hub tip as the datum. So the distance from there to the
leading edge plus the "window" on the wing , gave the final result.
Say you want to add an instrument,,,,you can "add" it on paper and see the
result, before you put it on.
If you're designing a new plane, you put the people in the seats measuring
at where the navel is in the seat. (actually they call out something else,
but this is a family group) :^)
Have fun
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Walt,
>
> Thats what I am hoping. I would appreciate a copy of your spreadsheet. I
> have made one myself but would be good to see how you have done it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
> Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2006 5:48 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Greg,
> Nah, forward.
>
> Peter,
> Don't think of it as moving the wing back, but rather moving the fuselage
> forward.
> So the imaginary point , on the wing, that the whole plane would teeter
> on, before moving, would be in an exact spot.
> After you moved the fuselage forward, now you'd have to pick a spot
> further
>
> forward to balance everything.
> hope this makes sense.
> If you have Windows Excel I can send you a small program, given to me,
> where you can just plug in all the numbers and see the final result to any
> plane
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
> Ben Franklin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
>>
>> The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the airfoil's
>> center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
>> To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move the
>> wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than the
>> cg.
>>
>> Greg C.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you
>>> move
>>> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back
>>> CG
>>> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> Wonthaggi, Australia
>>> http://www.cpc-world.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 10:36 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
>
--
10:36 PM
--
10:36 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
Peter,
Before all this fancy computer stuff (but still using a calculator), I
did the weight & balance like I show on this web page:
http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page, and see all possible loading
configurations. I use the firewall as the datum (per plans), so there will be
some
negative numbers when doing the calculations. The reason, by today's standards,
they put the datum ahead of the prop, is that there will be no negative
numbers.
Walt always has the good explanation of what happens when you move the
wing: You're not actually moving the wing aft...what you are really doing is
moving the fuselage forward.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage taper point |
In a message dated 11/22/2006 9:55:44 AM Central Standard Time,
danl(at)odayequipment.com writes:
Ken Heide and I were discussing the "wide fuselage" options last night while
gluing up the last of four fuse sides. Has anyone ever moved the taper start
point to the back of the rear seat instead of at the station ahead of it?
What would the issue be of keeping the 24" dimension all the way back to that
point? We are building the long fuselage version and tested one side last night
to be sure that it would pull in with the shorter distance. This change would
be a very minimal structural change but would effectively widen the rear
cockpit by 2" at the pilot's shoulders.
Let the discussion begin! We are looking for pro's and con's about this
possible solution.
Dan Loegering
Fargo, ND
Dan,
I don't know why anybody would even want to widen the fuselage. That
shouldn't even be an option. The plans dimensions get the job done, and keeps
it as
light as possible. I have the short fuse, plans width, and I am 6' tall, and
go about 215 lbs. Once I'm snuggled down in the cockpit, it's plenty roomy
enough. I even have enough room to keep a fire extinguisher, fuel sump tool,
and E.L.T. by my left hip, and four rolls of T.P. and a bottle of water by my
right hip.
If you move the taper starting point to the back of the rear seat, the
radius of the sides curving in will be much more dramatic, look odd, and not to
mention how it Will Affect the aerodynamics...most likely by blanking out some
of the inboard horizontal tail with turbulence. Also, it doesn't seem the
longerons could handle that radius, unless you steamed them. Moist Heat is
what is required to make curved wood. If you go that route, you better be mighty
careful...or you're gonna hear a loud 'CRACK' !!
All right...I'll say it again - "Build it to the plans !!"
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
Chuck,
Nah, Just passing along the explanation that someone else told me , and
my simple brain could pick it up. Just kind of makes sense.
Chuck, If I didn't tell you before, let me tell you now,,,that your
video was great. Lots of great stuff on building, and a must for the
new builders.
Those TP drops were a blast.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
Peter,
Before all this fancy computer stuff (but still using a
calculator), I did the weight & balance like I show on this web page:
http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html
Scroll down to the bottom of the page, and see all possible loading
configurations. I use the firewall as the datum (per plans), so there
will be some negative numbers when doing the calculations. The reason,
by today's standards, they put the datum ahead of the prop, is that
there will be no negative numbers.
Walt always has the good explanation of what happens when you move
the wing: You're not actually moving the wing aft...what you are really
doing is moving the fuselage forward.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage taper point |
I pretty much agree with Chuck and I remember a past comment from Mike
Cuy that "It fits me like a glove". I don't see much reason to go wider,
it just adds weight. The exception is that the long fuse with the A-65
would have been better for W/B.
Dick N.
I don't know why anybody would even want to widen the fuselage. That
shouldn't even be an option. The plans dimensions get the job done, and
keeps it as light as possible. I have the short fuse, plans width, and
I am 6' tall, and go about 215 lbs. Once I'm snuggled down in the
cockpit, it's plenty roomy enough. I even have enough room to keep a
fire extinguisher, fuel sump tool, and E.L.T. by my left hip, and four
rolls of T.P. and a bottle of water by my right hip.
If you move the taper starting point to the back of the rear seat,
the radius of the sides curving in will be much more dramatic, look odd,
and not to mention how it Will Affect the aerodynamics...most likely by
blanking out some of the inboard horizontal tail with turbulence.
Also, it doesn't seem the longerons could handle that radius, unless you
steamed them. Moist Heat is what is required to make curved wood. If
you go that route, you better be mighty careful...or you're gonna hear a
loud 'CRACK' !!
All right...I'll say it again - "Build it to the plans !!"
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
Don't know, what is the wing area diff?
On 11/21/06, Clif Dawson wrote:
>
> Don't forget the difference in wing area.
>
> And don't forget, that 100 hp Lyc or Continental
> started out life at the factory door with only 80
> true horsepower.
>
> Put those two together and what do you get?
>
> Clif
>
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude airport
>
> My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on a hot day. Am going
> with a Corvair (100 HP), will let you know if it's enough. I have flown 150s
> (also 100 HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a passenger from
> similiar altitude airports and did ok so it should be enough.
>
> Rick
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: The correct spelling is advice..... |
Consider yourself a catylist. Isn't that what makes things happen?
Clif :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:59 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: The correct spelling is advice.....
You'll learn nothing from me but lots from those who pick up on my
mistakes and I like to jump right in there with both feet and I make a
lot of em.Glad to be of service in an inverse way.Keep em flizing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weight & Balance |
In a message dated 11/22/2006 5:43:26 PM Central Standard Time,
waltdak(at)verizon.net writes:
Chuck, If I didn't tell you before, let me tell you now,,,that your video was
great. Lots of great stuff on building, and a must for the new builders.
Those TP drops were a blast.
Thanks, Walt.
I'm still working on a trailer for 'Flying NX770CG' to put up on YouTube or
Google video, to try to drum up some sales...which dropped off to almost
nothing. I guess just about everyone on the list has it, so now it's time to branch
out to the general population, and show them the thrills of flying a
Pietenpol - Low & Slow !!
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Weight & Balance |
Walt/Greg,
I moved the wing back about three inches today. It made a difference
(forward) of about five inches. I can now make up my front cabane struts and
be happy. I'll do another complete W&B after the struts are fitted.
Many thanks
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
Peter,
Sure, I guess I can put on this reply.
I didn't make it up. Someone in this group or the Fisher Flying Products
group shared it with me.
See if it downloads all four.
I did four different setups, for all possible modes. Everything from max
plane, to light pilot with heavy fuel, to heavy pilot with low fuel.
It's a great little program, just highlite the square and change the value.
Hit enter and the bottom line changes.
I used the prop hub tip as the datum. So the distance from there to the
leading edge plus the "window" on the wing , gave the final result.
Say you want to add an instrument,,,,you can "add" it on paper and see the
result, before you put it on.
If you're designing a new plane, you put the people in the seats measuring
at where the navel is in the seat. (actually they call out something else,
but this is a family group) :^)
Have fun
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Walt,
>
> Thats what I am hoping. I would appreciate a copy of your spreadsheet. I
> have made one myself but would be good to see how you have done it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
> Sent: Thursday, 23 November 2006 5:48 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
> Greg,
> Nah, forward.
>
> Peter,
> Don't think of it as moving the wing back, but rather moving the fuselage
> forward.
> So the imaginary point , on the wing, that the whole plane would teeter
> on, before moving, would be in an exact spot.
> After you moved the fuselage forward, now you'd have to pick a spot
> further
>
> forward to balance everything.
> hope this makes sense.
> If you have Windows Excel I can send you a small program, given to me,
> where you can just plug in all the numbers and see the final result to any
> plane
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
> Ben Franklin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>
>
>>
>> The reason for moving the wing is to change the location of the airfoil's
>> center of lift in relation to the aircraft's center of gravity.
>> To answer your question, the aircraft cg will move aft when you move the
>> wing aft but the airfoil center of lift will move aft much more than the
>> cg.
>>
>> Greg C.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:32 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight & Balance
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> This may be a dumb question but which way does the C of G move if you
>>> move
>>> the wing BACK! Does it follow the wing movement, i.e. move the wing back
>>> CG
>>> moves aft, move the wing forward CG moves forward?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> Wonthaggi, Australia
>>> http://www.cpc-world.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 10:36 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
> --
> 10:36 PM
>
>
>
--
10:36 PM
--
5:41 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
Would think that wing loading would be more relevent than wing area.
Rick
On 11/21/06, Clif Dawson wrote:
>
> Don't forget the difference in wing area.
>
> And don't forget, that 100 hp Lyc or Continental
> started out life at the factory door with only 80
> true horsepower.
>
> Put those two together and what do you get?
>
> Clif
>
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude airport
>
> My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on a hot day. Am going
> with a Corvair (100 HP), will let you know if it's enough. I have flown 150s
> (also 100 HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a passenger from
> similiar altitude airports and did ok so it should be enough.
>
> Rick
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com> |
I am at the "bolt it together and string the cables before covering" stage.
When I remove the wings, how do I disassemble the aileron cables through the
pulleys in the center section after I have installed the ends for fastening
to the control stick?
Carol and Ralph
Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: control cables |
In a message dated 11/23/2006 9:34:41 AM Central Standard Time,
ralphhsd(at)itctel.com writes:
When I remove the wings, how do I disassemble the aileron cables through the
pulleys in the center section after I have installed the ends for fastening
to the control stick?
Ralph,
Don't terminate the ends of the cables, till final assembly.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Another alternative is to remove the pully wheel but that is a pain in
the ass.it can be done but harder to put back together especially after
covering.Where my pullies are located at an inspection hole made in the
fabric using half a cover cap to cover half the hole.If you blow up the
second pic you can see the half hole covers.You have to have small hands
to take it apart and put it back together but it can be done.Ya just
snag some kid that's runnin around the field and bribe him to help ya
out.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: November 23, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: control cables
In a message dated 11/23/2006 9:34:41 AM Central Standard Time,
ralphhsd(at)itctel.com writes:
When I remove the wings, how do I disassemble the aileron cables
through the
pulleys in the center section after I have installed the ends
for fastening
to the control stick?
Ralph,
Don't terminate the ends of the cables, till final assembly.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Long Newguy Introduction |
Hi All!
Been lurking for some time now, figured I should stick my hand out and
say Howdy! I tend to get winded, so better grab some more food and
relax....
Tim is the name, my wife is Ronna, and we're in Bovey Minnesota, just 7
miles up the Iron Range from Grand Rapids, and about 70 miles NW of
Duluth. I always sign off as "Tim in Bovey" on the various lists I
belong to to avoid confusion with the plethora of other Tims out there.
Our aviation interests go back a long ways. Dad was a PP, hasn't flown
for years now, he's 78. Ronna grew up in Roundup, MT, with a close
family friend who owned/operated the airport there and they used to fly
a lot. I spent tons of time as a kid thru teen years flying with Dad
in 120, 140, 172, a Mooney and a T-Craft (those are the ones I can
remember anyway). I have always wanted to get my PP but due to many
things, mostly time, money and medical issues, never did more than a
few hours of dual for the fun of it. I'd been watching the LSP develop
over the past few years and did a big YIPEEE! when it went thru. So,
we are both intending on getting LSP tickets in the near future. In
the meantime....
We've deicded to build airplanes. Attracted by the greatly reduced
cost compared to buying a certified plane, the fact that we can do our
own repairs/maintenence, and that we can spread the cost over time,
buying what we need as we build, no financing is going to be necessary.
All in all, a good deal! We decided to build a Zenith CH-701, all
aluminum STOL plane, after researching tons and tons of planes/kits.
We went to the Zenith workshop in October, got some demo flights in,
and built the rudder, and we're ready to proceed. I figured minimum 2+
years to completion. Haven't decided yet, but leaning toward Jabiru
power, as I like the concept better than the Rotax, and don't want to
go Corvair with this plane for several reasons. Anyway....
Somewhere along the way in the past couple months I discovered the
Pietenpol, and it's really grabbed me by the..well..you know the
phrase....ordered the info pack from Don, read a ton of magazine
articles, AND about 70% of the digests for this list (just a year to go
and I'm all caught up with you guys). So, anyway, we've decided to
build a Piet too, at the same time. When we're saving up cash, or
hiding indoors because it's 40 below zero out in the garage and we
don't want to be working on the Zenith, we can be in the basement
making ribs and tail feathers. I built a lot of R/C and C/L models in
my day, and it will be nice to work in 1:1 scale! I'm already thinking
Corvair power for the Piet because....
I also happen to be a Corvair driver. My Son is too. I have a '64, he
has 2 65's. I drive mine as a daily driver except in the worst of
winter and also autocross it. I'm thinking along the lines of a
complete, ready to run Corvair from flycorvair, simply because they, to
me, are a heck of a good deal, and I have complete faith in the
powerplant, and am familier with repair/upkeep for them.
So, that's my story. I'm sure we'll have lots of questions as time
goes on. It appears there are some grey areas in the plans, and I'm
sure I'll make a tweak here or there myself as I bet most of you do.
We're regular Oshkosh attendees, and excited about the Brodhead event
too. We have a local EAA chapter that's pretty active. I haven't been
able to hook up with them yet....busy busy busy...but will soon. I
figure I better get on the waiting list for a hanger over in Grand
Rapids, too, since it's about a 2 year wait and we'll need some serious
space by then!
Can anyone recommend some good books about the Pietenpol, and wood
plane building in general? I have a few already, but I bet there's
more out there. We're prepared for projects that will take time, but
be a great husband/wife adventure! And we'll be able to get Dad's
trusty Shopsmith out of mothballs (anyone else remember the Shopsmith?)
BTW, I too was concerned about fiting in a Piet, as I was about a 701
for that matter. I'm 6'2". A year ago I weighed 290. When I decided
it was time to fly, get healthy, get my BP under control, and stop
being pooped out by the time I got to the top of the stairs....I've got
myself down to 185! Best way to improve several things, health,
autocross handling in a Corvair, and flight charasterics!
Most fun I've ever had flying, was riding with the Red Baron Squadron
(yes, the Pizza guys) in their Stearman. They were here for a
promotional event (I spose I should mention...I'm the morning radio
show host in Grand Rapids..so I get all the media perks..I've been on
the air somewhere for 31 years now....in GR for 19...check us out at
http://www.kozyradio.com you can listen to some morning show podcasts
if you're up to it) Anyway, when I got to the airport to fly with
them..the pilot took one look at me and said "Not till this afternoon"
They had just arrived after about a 60 mile flight, and their tanks
were almost full. With me at about 290 back then...they wouldn't stunt
with that much weight! So had to come back 4 hours later after they had
done a bunch of rides for kids and whatnot..so the planes were
lighter....but got the full treatment....hammerhead stall, loops,
rolls, wingover..it was GREAT! I knew it would be interesting before we
took off, as he was fitting the parachute to my butt and explaing how
to work it..he said "If I say 'bailout! bailout! bailout!' 3 times like
that, I mean it". What a thrill THAT was!
If you're *really* got time to kill, have a look at my web page at:
http://www.edselmotors.com
(yes, we also own an Edsel)
There a bunch of Corvair stuff there, and lots of other time killing
stuff. I plan on adding a flying section eventually. I have a teensey
weensey bit of flying stuff still posted at my ancient old web page at:
http://www.uslink.net/~hepcats/planes.html
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Cheap talk?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Long Newguy Introduction |
In a message dated 11/23/2006 5:42:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com writes:
http://www.edselmotors.com
Hi Tim,
Like you I been watching and reading about the Piet since I first saw it on
a TV special, cant remember which , but like you it grabbed me and I was
captivated by it. Funny thing is that I look at the 172 but my interests always
go back to the Piet.
I finally bit the bullet and got a set of plans in May of this year and have
been deeply involved in research, really enjoying visiting other builders
and owners across the country, taking pics and asking questions. Although I have
not begun my build as of yet I am doing the reading got Tony's books real
informative and full of great build tips. Chucks DVD is also a good resource.
The good news is that there is a bunch of support and help here.
Best of luck in your build!
John
Hey really loved the Edsel. Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 41CC is headed south |
Well, tomorrow (Friday) is the big day. The airplane is outside on the
trailer, hitched up and ready to go down to Zapata County Airport where the
wings have been quietly resting in a hangar for a bit over two years now
(yes, two years!). I have all the tools, hardware, wing struts, everything
ready to roll. Tomorrow I'll trailer the airplane down and reattach the
wings and try to get them re-rigged in preparation for a new W&B and annual.
Everything is ready.
Something to give thanks for, you can be sure! Also want to give thanks for
Corky, Mikee, Chuck, Walt, Shad, Dick, Doc, Tim, Jack, Sterling, and
everybody else who has coaxed me along for two years during the repair and
rebuild. You guys are great, and so is this list.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
View Athletes Collections with Live Search
http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
I have my fuse sides done! http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg
And I was wondering if there is any great trick to use to cut the
"wedge" out at the tail post where they join?
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 41CC is headed south |
Oscar,
Good for you. Keep us posted on the progress. Us "nawtherners" are in awe of
you guys down South for two things,,,warm weather,,,and
Corky's Shrimp Gumbo.
Hope this post finds all members of the group and their families well and
happy after their Dinner.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 41CC is headed south
>
>
> Well, tomorrow (Friday) is the big day. The airplane is outside on the
> trailer, hitched up and ready to go down to Zapata County Airport where
> the wings have been quietly resting in a hangar for a bit over two years
> now (yes, two years!). I have all the tools, hardware, wing struts,
> everything ready to roll. Tomorrow I'll trailer the airplane down and
> reattach the wings and try to get them re-rigged in preparation for a new
> W&B and annual. Everything is ready.
>
> Something to give thanks for, you can be sure! Also want to give thanks
> for Corky, Mikee, Chuck, Walt, Shad, Dick, Doc, Tim, Jack, Sterling, and
> everybody else who has coaxed me along for two years during the repair and
> rebuild. You guys are great, and so is this list.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> View Athlete's Collections with Live Search
> http://sportmaps.live.com/index.html?source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=MGAC01
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
Nice shot Scott! Wow is the only thing I can say! How roughly did that take
you? just curious?=0A=0ABen=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Sc
ott Schreiber =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 6:02:52 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Cut
out at tailpost, any great tips?=0A=0A=0AI have my fuse sides done! http://
www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And I was wondering if there is any g
reat trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at the tail post where they join?
-========================
=============0A=0A=0A =0A__________________________
.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
Scott
Thats a job that seems simple, but it's one of those technical things
that has to be done right. You will need to make a straight line on
your jig and block the fuse in place. Find the center line of all the
cross members that you have installed so far. Make sure each member
and the tail post falls exactly on the centerline. Then there are a
couple of ways to proceed. with the halves together, make a mark on
each half to rough cut with a hand plane or use a small saw. Re-fit the
halves and if they are somewhat close, use a belt from a belt sander,
cut open, 80 grit and pull it back and forth to final fit. Others may
have diffrent methods of sanding or cutting but there is no shortcut on
getting your fuse trued up straight.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
I have my fuse sides done!
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And I was wondering if
there is any great trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at the tail post
where they join?
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Ralph wrote-
>When I remove the wings, how do I disassemble the aileron cables
>through the pulleys in the center section after I have installed the ends
>for fastening to the control stick?
Not sure what you're asking, but I will tell you that the wings are
presently removed from 41CC and it was very convenient that Corky provided
access covers and cable links just at the wing roots to allow the aileron
cables to be disconnected and the wings removed without pulling the cables
through the pulleys. Harder to describe than to do, but I can take pictures
if it would help and if we're talking about the same thing.
To disconnect the wings, I cut the safety wires from the turnbuckles at the
bellcranks down at the joystick in the cockpit, backed the tension off the
aileron cables, removed the inspection covers on the undersides of the
wings, disconnected the aileron cable connector links (like motorcycle chain
links), and voila-! that, plus the pitot tube line, and the wings came right
off. There are links connecting the two aileron cables plus the cable that
connects the port and starboard ailerons across the top.
FWIW, Corky cautioned me about not removing one wing at a time. He
recommended that I lower both wingtips to the ground first, then remove one
wing and the other. If you remove one wing at a time you may end up with
the airplane tipping over onto one wingtip. Fortunately, we had lots of
cardboard boxes full of stored stuff to stack up under the wings to support
them while we worked.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
The same is true with giant scale R/C, I am fine with the process, what
I was reffering to in specific is the actual cutting of the tail post
area. When you talking about 1/2x1/4 spruce and 1/4 by 1/4 balsa it is a
simple matter of a razor saw. I was wondering if some great method had
been worked out.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
Scott
Thats a job that seems simple, but it's one of those technical things
that has to be done right. You will need to make a straight line on
your jig and block the fuse in place. Find the center line of all the
cross members that you have installed so far. Make sure each member
and the tail post falls exactly on the centerline. Then there are a
couple of ways to proceed. with the halves together, make a mark on
each half to rough cut with a hand plane or use a small saw. Re-fit the
halves and if they are somewhat close, use a belt from a belt sander,
cut open, 80 grit and pull it back and forth to final fit. Others may
have diffrent methods of sanding or cutting but there is no shortcut on
getting your fuse trued up straight.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 6:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
I have my fuse sides done!
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And I was wondering if
there is any great trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at the tail post
where they join?
-Scott
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: High density altitude airport |
Of course it would. You need the two plane's areas
before you can calculate loadings. And loading depends
on the gross weight of each aircraft. Notice I did not
say maximum gross.
Since you've got access to a 150 why not measure
the wing next time you're out and go from there?
At this point we know that we have a heavier AC with
80 HP minus age and density factors against a
lighter one with 100 HP minus the same factors. We
have a pretty good idea of the wing size of the Piet,
depending on any changes you might or might not
decide to make. Now we need the wing area of the
150 after which we can begin making comparisons.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude airport
Would think that wing loading would be more relevent than wing area.
Rick
On 11/21/06, Clif Dawson wrote:
Don't forget the difference in wing area.
And don't forget, that 100 hp Lyc or Continental
started out life at the factory door with only 80
true horsepower.
Put those two together and what do you get?
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: High density altitude airport
My airport is at 6840, over 10,000 density altitude on a hot day.
Am going with a Corvair (100 HP), will let you know if it's enough. I
have flown 150s (also 100 HP and 1000lbs empty weight) many times with a
passenger from similiar altitude airports and did ok so it should be
enough.
Rick
www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/23/2006 3:22 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | More Great List Comments - Please Make A Contribution! |
Dear Listers,
There's a little less than one week left for this year's List Fund Raiser. I thought
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Please make your Contribution today to support these List services! Pick up a
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
============================= WLAS #2 ============================
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============================= WLAS #2 ============================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Long Newguy Introduction |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Welcome aboard!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Czaplicki" <fishin3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 41CC headed south |
Glad to hear 41CC is getting ready for flight again. Then looking forward
to seeing her at Brodhead in 07. Back north to the land of her birth. She
may have been raised in the south but she was born in the cold north
JoeC
N94634
N22498
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 41CC is headed south
Well, tomorrow (Friday) is the big day. The airplane is outside on the
> trailer, hitched up and ready to go down to Zapata County Airport where
the
> wings have been quietly resting in a hangar for a bit over two years now
> (yes, two years!). I have all the tools, hardware, wing struts,
everything
> ready to roll. Tomorrow I'll trailer the airplane down and reattach the
> wings and try to get them re-rigged in preparation for a new W&B and
annual.
> Everything is ready.
>
> Something to give thanks for, you can be sure! Also want to give thanks
for
> Corky, Mikee, Chuck, Walt, Shad, Dick, Doc, Tim, Jack, Sterling, and
> everybody else who has coaxed me along for two years during the repair
and
> rebuild. You guys are great, and so is this list.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Long intro. new guy |
Welcome: I too planned on 2 years to build my Piet. I'm in year 8 now. I
am collecting parts for a next project now but I am not building 2
airplanes at one time. Unless you have NO other responsibilities,
family, or job you might be able to assemble a turnkey 701 kit in a
short period of time. There is no quick build turnkey Piet kit out there
that I know of. Double your build time guess and you may be on the ball
park. The books by Tony Bengilis are a must have. EAA also has other
books on wood and aircraft construction that are good. Good luck,
Welcome and happy building. Leon S. Ks. PS the Piet plans are lousy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long Newguy Introduction |
Hello Tim
You must be retired to have the time to take on two airplane projects at
once (or very disiplined). Anyhow I think you will have an ideal combination
(especially for Minnesota), open cockpit Piet for fun on the warmer days
(thats anything above 0 in MN), and the 701 for the rest of the time. Looks
like a Covair engine is a natural for someone as interested in Covair cars
as you are. I am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair conversion
using most of the parts that William Wynne sells. You probably know about
William Wynne's 601 Corvair, did you know he has a 701 kit that he is about
to start on which is of course going to use Corvair power. He is also going
to develop a firewall forward kit for it as he has for the 601 (including
mount, engine shrouding, a separate manual, and other stuff).
Dick Navratil is a regular on this newsgroup and is currently working on his
second Piet with a Rotec engine and I believes he lives near Minneapolis.
You may want to look him up if he is not too far from you. As far as good
reference material get all four of the Bengelis books, the new Pietenpol
Story book by Chet Peek (his email is in the archives), and Mike Cuy's and
Chuck Gantzer's videos. Congradulations, you have chosen two excellent to
aircraft to build.
Rick
On 11/23/06, Tim Verthein wrote:
>
> minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Hi All!
> Been lurking for some time now, figured I should stick my hand out and
> say Howdy! I tend to get winded, so better grab some more food and
> relax....
>
> Tim is the name, my wife is Ronna, and we're in Bovey Minnesota, just 7
> miles up the Iron Range from Grand Rapids, and about 70 miles NW of
> Duluth. I always sign off as "Tim in Bovey" on the various lists I
> belong to to avoid confusion with the plethora of other Tims out there.
>
> Our aviation interests go back a long ways. Dad was a PP, hasn't flown
> for years now, he's 78. Ronna grew up in Roundup, MT, with a close
> family friend who owned/operated the airport there and they used to fly
> a lot. I spent tons of time as a kid thru teen years flying with Dad
> in 120, 140, 172, a Mooney and a T-Craft (those are the ones I can
> remember anyway). I have always wanted to get my PP but due to many
> things, mostly time, money and medical issues, never did more than a
> few hours of dual for the fun of it. I'd been watching the LSP develop
> over the past few years and did a big YIPEEE! when it went thru. So,
> we are both intending on getting LSP tickets in the near future. In
> the meantime....
>
> We've deicded to build airplanes. Attracted by the greatly reduced
> cost compared to buying a certified plane, the fact that we can do our
> own repairs/maintenence, and that we can spread the cost over time,
> buying what we need as we build, no financing is going to be necessary.
> All in all, a good deal! We decided to build a Zenith CH-701, all
> aluminum STOL plane, after researching tons and tons of planes/kits.
> We went to the Zenith workshop in October, got some demo flights in,
> and built the rudder, and we're ready to proceed. I figured minimum 2+
> years to completion. Haven't decided yet, but leaning toward Jabiru
> power, as I like the concept better than the Rotax, and don't want to
> go Corvair with this plane for several reasons. Anyway....
>
> Somewhere along the way in the past couple months I discovered the
> Pietenpol, and it's really grabbed me by the..well..you know the
> phrase....ordered the info pack from Don, read a ton of magazine
> articles, AND about 70% of the digests for this list (just a year to go
> and I'm all caught up with you guys). So, anyway, we've decided to
> build a Piet too, at the same time. When we're saving up cash, or
> hiding indoors because it's 40 below zero out in the garage and we
> don't want to be working on the Zenith, we can be in the basement
> making ribs and tail feathers. I built a lot of R/C and C/L models in
> my day, and it will be nice to work in 1:1 scale! I'm already thinking
> Corvair power for the Piet because....
>
> I also happen to be a Corvair driver. My Son is too. I have a '64, he
> has 2 65's. I drive mine as a daily driver except in the worst of
> winter and also autocross it. I'm thinking along the lines of a
> complete, ready to run Corvair from flycorvair, simply because they, to
> me, are a heck of a good deal, and I have complete faith in the
> powerplant, and am familier with repair/upkeep for them.
>
> So, that's my story. I'm sure we'll have lots of questions as time
> goes on. It appears there are some grey areas in the plans, and I'm
> sure I'll make a tweak here or there myself as I bet most of you do.
> We're regular Oshkosh attendees, and excited about the Brodhead event
> too. We have a local EAA chapter that's pretty active. I haven't been
> able to hook up with them yet....busy busy busy...but will soon. I
> figure I better get on the waiting list for a hanger over in Grand
> Rapids, too, since it's about a 2 year wait and we'll need some serious
> space by then!
>
> Can anyone recommend some good books about the Pietenpol, and wood
> plane building in general? I have a few already, but I bet there's
> more out there. We're prepared for projects that will take time, but
> be a great husband/wife adventure! And we'll be able to get Dad's
> trusty Shopsmith out of mothballs (anyone else remember the Shopsmith?)
>
> BTW, I too was concerned about fiting in a Piet, as I was about a 701
> for that matter. I'm 6'2". A year ago I weighed 290. When I decided
> it was time to fly, get healthy, get my BP under control, and stop
> being pooped out by the time I got to the top of the stairs....I've got
> myself down to 185! Best way to improve several things, health,
> autocross handling in a Corvair, and flight charasterics!
>
> Most fun I've ever had flying, was riding with the Red Baron Squadron
> (yes, the Pizza guys) in their Stearman. They were here for a
> promotional event (I spose I should mention...I'm the morning radio
> show host in Grand Rapids..so I get all the media perks..I've been on
> the air somewhere for 31 years now....in GR for 19...check us out at
> http://www.kozyradio.com you can listen to some morning show podcasts
> if you're up to it) Anyway, when I got to the airport to fly with
> them..the pilot took one look at me and said "Not till this afternoon"
> They had just arrived after about a 60 mile flight, and their tanks
> were almost full. With me at about 290 back then...they wouldn't stunt
> with that much weight! So had to come back 4 hours later after they had
> done a bunch of rides for kids and whatnot..so the planes were
> lighter....but got the full treatment....hammerhead stall, loops,
> rolls, wingover..it was GREAT! I knew it would be interesting before we
> took off, as he was fitting the parachute to my butt and explaing how
> to work it..he said "If I say 'bailout! bailout! bailout!' 3 times like
> that, I mean it". What a thrill THAT was!
>
> If you're *really* got time to kill, have a look at my web page at:
> http://www.edselmotors.com
> (yes, we also own an Edsel)
> There a bunch of Corvair stuff there, and lots of other time killing
> stuff. I plan on adding a flying section eventually. I have a teensey
> weensey bit of flying stuff still posted at my ancient old web page at:
> http://www.uslink.net/~hepcats/planes.html
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
> ==
> You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
> ==
>
>
> Cheap talk?
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
Here some pictures showing how I did it. Since I didn't have a 12' wide belt
sander I clamped a couple of pieces of steel at the tail post and just ahead
of where I was going to cut and cut the wedge out with a rigid back hand
saw. Then made a two sided sanding block out of 1/4" ply which I put between
the two cuts and pulled it up and down until the sides matched.
Rick
On 11/23/06, Scott Schreiber wrote:
>
> I have my fuse sides done! http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And
> I was wondering if there is any great trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at
> the tail post where they join?
>
> -Scott
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
Scott: I brought the tail post sides together until they touched. Then I
cut two 1" wide stiff paper strips ( a couple of feet long I guess ) to
simulate the longerons and laid them on top of the longerons, then
brought the paper strips together at the rear end over lapping them to
get the shape and with of the finished end. I then glued the paper
strips as they set. This formed a paper triangle. then I split the
triangle in two vertically to show the cut need on each side. This
became the template I marked the wood with to show my cut lines. I used
a small handsaw to cut, then a palm sander to hone the shape. It worked
great. Epoxy glue pays off here because it has gap filling qualities.
but don,t be sloppy. Leon S. Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
Rick,
Nice pictures.
I like your work.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
Here some pictures showing how I did it. Since I didn't have a 12'
wide belt sander I clamped a couple of pieces of steel at the tail post
and just ahead of where I was going to cut and cut the wedge out with a
rigid back hand saw. Then made a two sided sanding block out of 1/4" ply
which I put between the two cuts and pulled it up and down until the
sides matched.
Rick
On 11/23/06, Scott Schreiber wrote:
I have my fuse sides done!
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And I was wondering if
there is any great trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at the tail post
where they join?
-Scott
www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
About 3 days total, first day was one side plus outer gussets. 2nd day
was inner gussets on that first side and framing up of the 2nd side with
it's outer gussets. 3rd day was inner gussets on the 2nd side and
clearing the building board.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Ramler
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
Nice shot Scott! Wow is the only thing I can say! How roughly did that
take you? just curious?
Ben
----- Original Message ----
From: Scott Schreiber <got22b(at)SubaruBrat.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 6:02:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
I have my fuse sides done!
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And I was wondering if
there is any great trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at the tail post
where they join?
-Scott
Electric www.buil* HomebuiltHELP http://www.matronics.com/contributist"
target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet=======
=========
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Everyone is raving about
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips? |
I ended up using a mixture of your pics and an idea that popped in my
head thanks to your pics. I "masked off" the area not to be cut with 1/8
sheet metal and used that as a guide for the handsaw and it came out
smooth and straight. I just need to run some 80 grit over it to get a
nice surface for the epoxy.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutout at tailpost, any great tips?
Here some pictures showing how I did it. Since I didn't have a 12'
wide belt sander I clamped a couple of pieces of steel at the tail post
and just ahead of where I was going to cut and cut the wedge out with a
rigid back hand saw. Then made a two sided sanding block out of 1/4" ply
which I put between the two cuts and pulled it up and down until the
sides matched.
Rick
On 11/23/06, Scott Schreiber wrote:
I have my fuse sides done!
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse3.jpg And I was wondering if
there is any great trick to use to cut the "wedge" out at the tail post
where they join?
-Scott
www.aeroelectric.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 41CC is headed south |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
That is great news, Oscar-- pretty exciting stuff. It is hard to
imagine that 2 years has passed since you took possession of your
Illinois-Born and Gumbo-Grown Piet. Who says the nawth and south kant
git along ?
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Video shots...... |
Fellow Pieter's:
For some of us this Christmas holiday, we often ponder of a "great" gift we could
use. Therefore, I have found the "great" gift you can run out and purchase......
wrapping it with care..... and applying the gift tag to simply say,...from
Santa Claus! What is this gift you ask?.......
At Shopko, your will find a Oregon Scientific Water-Resistant Hands Free "Helmet
Cam" with Flash Memory Video Recorder. (See where I am going with this fellow
pilots!) You can capture all the flying action with the ultimate all terrain
digital video camera compact all-in-one design. Playback is either on PC or
Television. Mounts easily on helmets, bikes, and a wide array (planes) of other
sporting gear.
There,...my good deed for those of us who would like to video our flying experiences
at a low low price of $129.00 which includes all mounting hardware and
PC windows XP or Windows 2000 compatible.
Merry Christmas!
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video shots...... |
In a message dated 11/25/2006 12:18:22 AM Central Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
At Shopko, your will find a Oregon Scientific Water-Resistant Hands Free
"Helmet Cam" with Flash Memory Video Recorder.
Ken,
I've been looking for this type helmet cam for a long time, but they are all
over $300. I searched the Shopko web site, but couldn't find it. Where did
you see it ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Video shots...... |
Chuck,
What a great camera and very tough! I walked into my local Shopko store and found
three of them hanging for $129.00. each. If you like I will go and buy one
for you in the morning and ship UPS. Just say the word....
Ken
PS...they were not on clearance either for that price!
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 11/25/2006 12:18:22 AM Central Standard Time, kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
writes:
At Shopko, your will find a Oregon Scientific Water-Resistant Hands Free "Helmet
Cam" with Flash Memory Video Recorder.
Ken,
I've been looking for this type helmet cam for a long time, but they are all
over $300. I searched the Shopko web site, but couldn't find it. Where did you
see it ?
Chuck G.
NX770CG
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Video shots...... |
In a message dated 11/25/2006 1:07:35 AM Central Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
Chuck,
What a great camera and very tough! I walked into my local Shopko store and
found three of them hanging for $129.00. each. If you like I will go and buy
one for you in the morning and ship UPS. Just say the word....
Ken
PS...they were not on clearance either for that price!
Ken,
'The Word' !!
That would be fantastic if you could do that for me !!
Send it to:
Chuck Gantzer
626 Pattie
Wichita, KS 67211
Let me know the total cost, and I'll get a check right off in the mail to you.
Thank you very much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
| Subject: | High alt. performance |
Hi Tim: I have that article in one of the old newsletters. I'd forgot
how anemic the stock A was. Those old racers use to get a lot of power
out of them but "what price speed"? The A was a great engine during the
automotive "stone age", but getting modern (or just decent) performance
out of it seams to take the life out of it in a hurry. I'm going to do a
minimal amt. of boosting mine, only with insert bearings so as to handle
6 or 7 to one compression, than a Stromberg carb. as from an A-65. I am
based at 1500 ft. so all I'm really looking for is a little extra
margin for a little extra alt. when I pass over the trees or wires at
the end of the runway. I think the only real way to get a good original
looking inline engine set up for the Piet is o use a modern engine like
Larry Harrison did in his Poplar Piet. Right out of the box you have
higher stock hp. reliable full pressure oiling and years and millions
of dollars of R and D behind it. I just wish one of those smart guys who
have already done it would do a conversion article on it. Leon S. in
Ks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long intro. new guy |
Eight year? No problem Leon, remember the journey is the destination as they
say (unless you like flying more than building I guess).
Rick
>
>
> Welcome: I too planned on 2 years to build my Piet. I'm in year 8 now.
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | longeron question |
Hey Fellow Piet'ers,
I have question on the longerons. Would 3/4" wide by 5/8" be strong enough to
use for the longerons? Just thought I would ask before it was to late.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: longeron question |
NO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | any body see this? |
On Youtube.
lots of them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Ch9QhwyBY
cool!
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: longeron question |
That would be a huge decrease in cross section... .625x.75=0.468= less
than 1/2 the cross section area of 1 that you get with the 1X1 called
for in the plans. I've heard of folks using 7/8x7/8 with Douglas Fir,
but I decided to use the full dimension as called for on the plans.
Don't start compromising so early in the project, or you'll never have
the guts to fly it. (or let anyone else)
Just my $.02
Ben
Ben Ramler wrote:
>
>Hey Fellow Piet'ers,
>
> I have question on the longerons. Would 3/4" wide by 5/8" be strong enough to
use for the longerons? Just thought I would ask before it was to late.
>
>thanks,
>
>Ben Ramler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> |
First off, thanks all for the nice welcome! Lots of notes on and off
the list.
I'm in no hurry to finish either plane, but we'll stay on task! I'm
semi-retired, kids all grown, wife still works full-time. Although I
do enough sideline work on my own to make me still working full time!
But I work 5-11 AM leaving the day to build and tinker and what not.
Also, thanks for the good book suggestions. Really helped fill out my
letter to Santa.
Question: I figure I'm gonna need a bandsaw for this sort of work. I
haven't used one since high school shop class (and no, it wasn't steam
powered!). How big of a saw am I going to want to look for? All I have
now is a small jigsaw that worked find for models 20 years ago, but
that's not gonna do it! I plan on taking my Dad's Shopsmith out of
mothballs when I need it. For those not familier, it's a combination
table saw, lathe, drillpress, horizontal sander, and I think cheese
grater too! VAriable speed, Dad's got all the attachments, so that
will be good for ripping long parts, etc. but I think bandsaw is gonna
be the key. Besides, it's good to have another reason to buy another
tool!
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Want to start your own business?
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
Actually the jig saw works really well if you buy the hollow ground blades for
it. the blade is thicker on the front than the back, instead of blades with set
in the teeth. A bandsaw will be used if you have it, but I would rather have
a nice miter saw for precision cutting, it leaves the end grain open for good
glue penetration, rather than bandsawing the cuts and sanding to the line which
closes in the pores. besides wasting huge amounts of time cutting and fitting.
Just set your fuselage side pieces on top of the longerons, mark with a sharp
pencil and cut it to the line...and your done fitting. Or if you have a lot
of repetitive pieces like the rib pieces. set a stop and cut them all at once.
good for plus or minus .005.
Del
Tim Verthein wrote:
First off, thanks all for the nice welcome! Lots of notes on and off
the list.
I'm in no hurry to finish either plane, but we'll stay on task! I'm
semi-retired, kids all grown, wife still works full-time. Although I
do enough sideline work on my own to make me still working full time!
But I work 5-11 AM leaving the day to build and tinker and what not.
Also, thanks for the good book suggestions. Really helped fill out my
letter to Santa.
Question: I figure I'm gonna need a bandsaw for this sort of work. I
haven't used one since high school shop class (and no, it wasn't steam
powered!). How big of a saw am I going to want to look for? All I have
now is a small jigsaw that worked find for models 20 years ago, but
that's not gonna do it! I plan on taking my Dad's Shopsmith out of
mothballs when I need it. For those not familier, it's a combination
table saw, lathe, drillpress, horizontal sander, and I think cheese
grater too! VAriable speed, Dad's got all the attachments, so that
will be good for ripping long parts, etc. but I think bandsaw is gonna
be the key. Besides, it's good to have another reason to buy another
tool!
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Want to start your own business?
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Tim
For most things, a 11" tabletop from Sears will do just fine. Get one with
variable speed so you can cut some metal fittings also.
Alo, welcome to the list.
Dick N.
Arden Hills, MN.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Band Saw?
First off, thanks all for the nice welcome! Lots of notes on and off
the list.
I'm in no hurry to finish either plane, but we'll stay on task! I'm
semi-retired, kids all grown, wife still works full-time. Although I
do enough sideline work on my own to make me still working full time!
But I work 5-11 AM leaving the day to build and tinker and what not.
Also, thanks for the good book suggestions. Really helped fill out my
letter to Santa.
Question: I figure I'm gonna need a bandsaw for this sort of work. I
haven't used one since high school shop class (and no, it wasn't steam
powered!). How big of a saw am I going to want to look for? All I have
now is a small jigsaw that worked find for models 20 years ago, but
that's not gonna do it! I plan on taking my Dad's Shopsmith out of
mothballs when I need it. For those not familier, it's a combination
table saw, lathe, drillpress, horizontal sander, and I think cheese
grater too! VAriable speed, Dad's got all the attachments, so that
will be good for ripping long parts, etc. but I think bandsaw is gonna
be the key. Besides, it's good to have another reason to buy another
tool!
Tim in Bovey
==
You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor!
==
Want to start your own business?
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: longeron question |
Let me add on to what Corky said: NO NO NO NO, Stick to the plan
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: longeron question
Hey Fellow Piet'ers,
I have question on the longerons. Would 3/4" wide by 5/8" be strong enough
to use for the longerons? Just thought I would ask before it was to late.
thanks,
Ben Ramler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
Tim,
Since I have used a bandsaw almost every day of my life for 21 years, my
opinion may be of some value. I have owned or worked with almost every type
of bandsaw there is. My favorite is still the 12" Sears freestanding model. It
is cheap, reliable and you can find the blades anywhere there is a Sears. It
has 2 wheels (preferable), takes a wide variety of blades and has power
enough to cut "pack-ups", or stacked pieces. They are also very easy to rebuild,
should you ever put that many hours on it like I do. It is light enough for
me to load on a stock truck by myself when going on the road with my business.
And no, I do not work for Sears. But I sure recommend the saw.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | White Ash substitution check |
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a few wood
working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as equivalent woods.
I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen locally and it is
clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to laminate 3 1/4x3 lengths
to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill but not allot of effort.
Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to use Aspen, laminated or
single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
Scott,
I'm no wood expert, but I do know that ash is tough as hell (axe handles
baseball bats) and poplar is a very soft wood.
I used a scrap piece of ash as tool to bend my fittings over a mandrel.
Hitting the piece with a hammer, the top only mushroomed, never split.
I would think that oak, red/white, or maple would (no pun) be better
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a few
wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as equivalent
woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen locally and it
is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to laminate 3 1/4x3
lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill but not allot of
effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to use Aspen,
laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
Oak is available here as well, and I looked at it but it seemed prone to
breaking, a blade like effect. Poplar did seem softer than Aspen.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Scott,
I'm no wood expert, but I do know that ash is tough as hell (axe
handles baseball bats) and poplar is a very soft wood.
I used a scrap piece of ash as tool to bend my fittings over a
mandrel. Hitting the piece with a hammer, the top only mushroomed, never
split.
I would think that oak, red/white, or maple would (no pun) be better
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a few
wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as equivalent
woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen locally and it
is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to laminate 3 1/4x3
lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill but not allot of
effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to use Aspen,
laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
Scott,
Neither Aspen or Poplar are suitable substitutes for Ash, they are
far weaker, and in spite of being from deciduous trees (as opposed to
evergreens), they are considered softwoods by the timber industry.
Mature Aspen, particularly, has very little tensile strength & is
prone to sudden failure (I know this from bitter experience, having
nearly been killed when I was 8 from climbing a large aspen & having
a branch break suddenly). Aspen is not really considered a structural
wood at all, although it has a very pleasant "clear", light, and
smooth apperarance that makes it good for cabinets, etc.
If I had to choose between oak and maple as a substitute, I'd go with
the maple, it's more uniform in density & grain & tougher. Just be
sure you get ROCK maple, which comes from a harder/denser species of
maple - there are also soft maples like Red Maple & Silver Maple
that would NOT be suitable. Some tropical hardwoods may have similar
properties of strength and toughness as Ash, but I'm no expert on
those.
It occurs to me that one place you might check is YUKON LUMBER CO. in
Norfolk, VA. Sorry, I don't have a number, but when I lived there,
they were they experts on various types of lumber from around the
world & stocked an amazing variety of common & exotic woods.
All that said however, I think you should look around more for ash -
there is really no GOOD substitute & I'm sure you can find it on
line, if nowhere else.
Everyone on the list should also be aware that ash is going to
become increasingly scarce in the future. There is a nasty insect
that came here from Asia about 8-10 years ago (most likely in a load
of Chinese-made pallets sent to Detroit) called the Emerald Ash
Borer. It has infected huge numbers of trees in Michigan & is now
spreading into Ohio. No known pesticide can kill it & it is 100%
fatal to Ash trees. Here in Ohio, a friend of mine at the Ag Research
Center is in charge of the State effort to find a control & so far
his team is batting zero. Privately, he says that there is no hope
for controlling this pest & that eventually Ash trees will go the way
of the chestnuts & dutch elms, probably in 10-15 years.
In the meantime, there MAY be a glut of Ash on the market in the next
couple of years as timber folks selectively cut ash as salvage lumber
to get ahead of the borers. Once an area is infected, the current
tactic is total quarantine, with no shipment of young trees, firewood
or lumber allowed out of that area, so there is some incentive to cut
before an area goes that way. So get it while you can.
Just a little more wonderful news to make everyone's day....
Kip Gardner
>Oak is available here as well, and I looked at it but it seemed
>prone to breaking, a blade like effect. Poplar did seem softer than
>Aspen.
>
> -Scott
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:waltdak(at)verizon.net>walt evans
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:26 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
>
>Scott,
>I'm no wood expert, but I do know that ash is tough as hell (axe
>handles baseball bats) and poplar is a very soft wood.
>I used a scrap piece of ash as tool to bend my fittings over a
>mandrel. Hitting the piece with a hammer, the top only mushroomed,
>never split.
>I would think that oak, red/white, or maple would (no pun) be better
>walt evans
>NX140DL
--
North Canton, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
I bought my ash from Wicks. It isn't listed in the aircraft supply
catalog. Had to call the Wicks Organ company, their sister company and
they had it and cut to the thickness in the plans. Wasn't expensive.
Don't know if they still carry it, but don't know why not.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Oak is available here as well, and I looked at it but it seemed prone
to breaking, a blade like effect. Poplar did seem softer than Aspen.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Scott,
I'm no wood expert, but I do know that ash is tough as hell (axe
handles baseball bats) and poplar is a very soft wood.
I used a scrap piece of ash as tool to bend my fittings over a
mandrel. Hitting the piece with a hammer, the top only mushroomed, never
split.
I would think that oak, red/white, or maple would (no pun) be better
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a
few wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as
equivalent woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen
locally and it is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to
laminate 3 1/4x3 lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill
but not allot of effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to
use Aspen, laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
I can get you the ash pieces needed for the plans pietenpol. Will cut a bit
longer for surety. Give me a full name, address and phone.
Nathan (Corky's buddy)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
And remember, guys, ash was used for the frame on many a Morgan
production sports car.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Engelkenjohn
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
I bought my ash from Wicks. It isn't listed in the aircraft supply
catalog. Had to call the Wicks Organ company, their sister company and
they had it and cut to the thickness in the plans. Wasn't expensive.
Don't know if they still carry it, but don't know why not.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Oak is available here as well, and I looked at it but it seemed
prone to breaking, a blade like effect. Poplar did seem softer than
Aspen.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Scott,
I'm no wood expert, but I do know that ash is tough as hell (axe
handles baseball bats) and poplar is a very soft wood.
I used a scrap piece of ash as tool to bend my fittings over a
mandrel. Hitting the piece with a hammer, the top only mushroomed, never
split.
I would think that oak, red/white, or maple would (no pun) be
better
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from
you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a
few wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as
equivalent woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen
locally and it is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to
laminate 3 1/4x3 lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill
but not allot of effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to
use Aspen, laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
When I built my Pietenpol, I couldn't find White Ash of the quality and
size I needed. My fellow teacher, who was a real expert on woods,
suggested either Birch or Oak as suitable substitutes.
I opted for Oak because it was less prone to rotting. Birch tends to
stain and rot rather easily, but is really strong (illustrated by its
use in wooden propellers). Oak was used for centuries in wooden ships
and it is strong!
The two Oak cross pieces on the floor of my Pietenpol are as sound as
they were when I installed them over 36 years ago. Of course, they were
well-protected by several coats of urethane varnish and the a/c has been
hangared most of its life. My ol' Piet has literally thousands of
takeoffs and landings from really rough fields, and I think a steel
fitting would have broken long before the Oak crosspieces suffered any
damage.
White Ash is the preferred wood for this application, but in my
experience Oak is a reasonable substitute. Do not, however, use Poplar
or Aspen for these members (I have used it for violin backs and it is
nice to carve, but it cannot compete with Ash, Oak or Birch for
strength).
Whatever wood you use, always use the selection criteria for aircraft
quality wood.
Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in chilly Alberta)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
A brand new 65 hp Continental. It's not the engine, it's the weight.
745 is too heavy for a Piet. Some of that is in the straight axle (21
lbs), some in the wire wheels, (probably 20 lbs apiece), a lot is in the
polyurethane paint (probably 60 lbs), but some is in the wider fuselage.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner
Mason
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:39 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet
What kind of engine did Jack phillips use to get that poor
performance? I am building the long f uselage and 2 inches wider with a
corvair engine. I don't expect it to be a rocket, but it should do
better than he described. I have a cessna 140 with a C90 and with 1450
max gross it climbs at 600fpm. Gardiner Mason
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SSchof4277(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
I haven't used this Company, so I can't vouch for their service...but it
appears you can order small quantities. It's worth a shot. Here's the
link...http://www.bristolvalley.com/catalog.asp?prodid=293392&showprevnext=1
Steve Schofield
Vero Beach, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List of Contributors Coming Soon - Make Sure You're Listed! |
Dear Listers,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | White Ash availability |
I purchased white ash "baseball bat blanks" sold by Woodcraft. They have a
mail order catalog and an extensive website. Your saw will have to be able
to handle the piece which I believe was about 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" x 42" long if
memory serves. The cost was about $35.00.
I have a planer too which helps immeasurably when buiding a wood airplane.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
Jack,
What wall thickness was your straight axle? You mentioned a weight of 20
lbs, so I went out to my hangar and weighed mine (a full 72" long at this point
before trimming) and it was only about 10 lbs. The thickness on mine is
.120 I believe.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham and Robyn" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com> |
Hi Bo here are the addresses,
Phil is Chapter 24 Pres & Joe is Sect
Hope to see you Wednesday
Regards Graham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | White Ash substitution check |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Scott,
Ash has a number of interesting characteristics that make it the right
material for the landing gear (and the engine mounts for the model A).
I found this on the web: "...Because white ash wood is tough, strong,
and highly resistant to shock, it is particularly sought for handles,
oars, and baseball bats."
In addition to absorbing shock well, ash is relatively light, and has
the unique property that it does not splinter, which is why it is used
to make gymnastics parallel bars.
I don't know of any other wood with those characteristics. It is worth
going to some trouble to find the correct wood. That is one of the joys
of building a plans-built airplane, and one of the things I'm missing
while building my RV-10. It's just not the same to go look in the crate
that the kit came in to find a part, as it was to have to search for the
correct material and then fabricate the part (in my case I usually had
to fabricate several parts to get one good one) when I was building my
Pietenpol. Enjoy the building process. In this age of kit-built
airplanes, you are a member of a dying breed. An Elite group.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a
few wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as
equivalent woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen
locally and it is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to
laminate 3 1/4x3 lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill
but not allot of effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to
use Aspen, laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
MessageWell, I have a solution thanks to the great and generous Nathan
who has already offered up the piece. And of course now some of those
other sources that came after are here on record for others. For me it
is learning the balance of new and old used in this plane. Nobody
suggests using the glues from the 1930's, and yet the metal fittings are
considered very servicable, and struts are as varied as it gets.... it
is an interesting process.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Scott,
Ash has a number of interesting characteristics that make it the right
material for the landing gear (and the engine mounts for the model A).
I found this on the web: "...Because white ash wood is tough, strong,
and highly resistant to shock, it is particularly sought for handles,
oars, and baseball bats."
In addition to absorbing shock well, ash is relatively light, and has
the unique property that it does not splinter, which is why it is used
to make gymnastics parallel bars.
I don't know of any other wood with those characteristics. It is
worth going to some trouble to find the correct wood. That is one of
the joys of building a plans-built airplane, and one of the things I'm
missing while building my RV-10. It's just not the same to go look in
the crate that the kit came in to find a part, as it was to have to
search for the correct material and then fabricate the part (in my case
I usually had to fabricate several parts to get one good one) when I was
building my Pietenpol. Enjoy the building process. In this age of
kit-built airplanes, you are a member of a dying breed. An Elite group.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a few
wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as equivalent
woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen locally and it
is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to laminate 3 1/4x3
lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill but not allot of
effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to use Aspen,
laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: White Ash substitution check |
MessageI read with interest your comparison of the Pietenpol project vs.
the RV-10.
You can't get much greater contrast in homebuilts then that.
It just so happens that I am simultaneously building both, the Piet and
the RV-10.
I started my Piet in Jan.2004 and have the tremendous benefit of having
Bill Rewey as my close friend, advisor, and DAR. I have all my ribs
done, the fuselage about 90% complete and have finished welding up the
landing gear.
Then last Jan. my son ordered the tail kit of an RV-10. When I told him
"you don't have the time or the passion to tackle a project of this
size", he replied, " I know. I'm not going to build it, you are."
So, in the evenings a couple days each week I get over to his home to
work on the RV, and during the day, I go to my basement and work on my
Piet. Meanwhile, he started taking flying lessons. He hasn't soloed
yet.
I convinced him to own his trainer rather than rent, so he and I bought
a really nice 1972 Cessna 150 with low engine time and an IFR panel.
Then he had built a beautiful 50 x 60ft hangar, complete with office,
bath with shower, fully insulated, heated, well lit, and big enough to
hold three planes.
Since my special issuance med ran out last Aug. and I can't re apply for
several months (cancer) I went and bought a really well built Piet from
a guy in Baxter, Ia. to fly under the Sport Pilot rules while continuing
to build my Piet.
So, I have the best of all worlds: building two very different aircraft,
have two very differnt planes to fly, and the luxury of housing them in
a very nice hangar at a totally new rebuilt airport in Middleton, Wi.
Who said you have to die to be in paradise?
Roman Bukolt
NX 20795
N 1765Q
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Scott,
Ash has a number of interesting characteristics that make it the right
material for the landing gear (and the engine mounts for the model A).
I found this on the web: "...Because white ash wood is tough, strong,
and highly resistant to shock, it is particularly sought for handles,
oars, and baseball bats."
In addition to absorbing shock well, ash is relatively light, and has
the unique property that it does not splinter, which is why it is used
to make gymnastics parallel bars.
I don't know of any other wood with those characteristics. It is
worth going to some trouble to find the correct wood. That is one of
the joys of building a plans-built airplane, and one of the things I'm
missing while building my RV-10. It's just not the same to go look in
the crate that the kit came in to find a part, as it was to have to
search for the correct material and then fabricate the part (in my case
I usually had to fabricate several parts to get one good one) when I was
building my Pietenpol. Enjoy the building process. In this age of
kit-built airplanes, you are a member of a dying breed. An Elite group.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a few
wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as equivalent
woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen locally and it
is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to laminate 3 1/4x3
lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill but not allot of
effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to use Aspen,
laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- N
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | White Ash substitution check |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
Actually I do suggest the glues from the 1930's. I used Resorcinol
throughout my Pietenpol. It is the only glue approved by the FAA, and
it was used in the 1930's. Pain in the but to work with, but once cured
it will withstand 24 hours immersion in boiling water. Try that with
T-88.
I like T-88 for repairs and non-structural areas. Much easier to use
than Resorcinol, and plenty strong enough, but I just don't know how
well it will hold up after years of service. There's a lot of data on
resorcinol.
Let the flamers begin...
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:35 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Well, I have a solution thanks to the great and generous Nathan
who has already offered up the piece. And of course now some of those
other sources that came after are here on record for others. For me it
is learning the balance of new and old used in this plane. Nobody
suggests using the glues from the 1930's, and yet the metal fittings are
considered very servicable, and struts are as varied as it gets.... it
is an interesting process.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution
check
Scott,
Ash has a number of interesting characteristics that
make it the right material for the landing gear (and the engine mounts
for the model A). I found this on the web: "...Because white ash wood
is tough, strong, and highly resistant to shock, it is particularly
sought for handles, oars, and baseball bats."
In addition to absorbing shock well, ash is relatively
light, and has the unique property that it does not splinter, which is
why it is used to make gymnastics parallel bars.
I don't know of any other wood with those
characteristics. It is worth going to some trouble to find the correct
wood. That is one of the joys of building a plans-built airplane, and
one of the things I'm missing while building my RV-10. It's just not
the same to go look in the crate that the kit came in to find a part, as
it was to have to search for the correct material and then fabricate the
part (in my case I usually had to fabricate several parts to get one
good one) when I was building my Pietenpol. Enjoy the building process.
In this age of kit-built airplanes, you are a member of a dying breed.
An Elite group.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:02 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution
check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I
checked with a few wood working friends and they suggested Poplar and
Aspen as equivalent woods. I was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3
Aspen locally and it is clean knot free quality wood. I am inclined to
laminate 3 1/4x3 lengths to get a nice strong piece, probably overkill
but not allot of effort. Does anyone know of a compelling reason not to
use Aspen, laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and
may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information.
If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately
and delete
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano -
Japanese - Nederlands - N
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> |
| Subject: | White Ash substitution check |
Hi Scott,
I got my White Ash from The Wood & Shop Inc. 314-731-2761 or
www.woodnshop.com <http://www.woodnshop.com/> ! They will ship it to you
too!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: White Ash substitution check
Failing to find white ash for the two xmembers I checked with a few wood
working friends and they suggested Poplar and Aspen as equivalent woods. I
was able to find both 3/4 x 3 and 1/4 x 3 Aspen locally and it is clean knot
free quality wood. I am inclined to laminate 3 1/4x3 lengths to get a nice
strong piece, probably overkill but not allot of effort. Does anyone know of
a compelling reason not to use Aspen, laminated or single piece?
And let me say again, this group is great.
-Scott
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | T-88 vs. resorcinol |
Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours of
boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet!
This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are taverns,
hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol? I'll
settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very
endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about
proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick
curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation use
for a long time.
But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | T-88 vs. resorcinol |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> |
With all this global warming you just never know when it might start
raining boiling water.
The list has been kind of quiet lately - just thought I'd stir things up
with a re-hash of the old glue discussion. So here goes.
I used both, T-88 and Resorcinol on my Pietenpol. Both are good glues,
and have their pros and cons. I happen to like Resorcinol better, but I
sure used a lot of T-88.
Resorcinol Pros
Very strong (if properly applied)
Long history in aircraft construction
FAA approved.
Totally weatherproof (the Mil Spec requires withstanding immersion in
boiling water for 24 hours)
Impervious to salt and fresh water, temperature extremes, solvents, oil,
acids and alkalis
Highly resistant to molds, fungi, bacteria and insects
Purple/Brownish color (looks good in laminations)
Easy to apply with a brush
Cleans up with water (before cured)
Resorcinol Cons
Joints must be tight (no gap-filling capability)
Temperature must be at least 70 F or joint strength may suffer
Joint must be clamped with a pressure of 25 - 75 psi
Purple Brownish color doesn't look nice for some applications
4:3 mix ratio is difficult to mix in small volumes
T-88 Pros
Very strong
Clear - nearly invisible when finished
Can be worked down to 35 F temperatures
Unaffected by water, oil, kerosene and many other chemicals when fully
cured
1:1 mix ratio (easy to mix small amounts)
Good gap-filling properties (joints can be messy)
Little or no clamping pressure required
T-88 Cons
Sticky - messy to work with
Difficult to apply with a brush
Long term exposure to weather results less clear than resorcinol
Not FAA approved (can't be used on certificated aircraft)
Basically I used Resorcinol everywhere I could, except in the cockpit
area where I didn't want the purple
glue lines. Other than the cockpit, the only places I used T-88 were
joints that were not perfect, or
places where I couldn't get good clamping pressure.
When repairing my plane after the forced landing, I found no glue joints
broken, either resorcinol or T-88.
I think both are excellent glues.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. resorcinol
-->
Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours
of
boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet!
This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are
taverns,
hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol?
I'll
settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very
endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about
proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick
curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation
use
for a long time.
But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol |
On 11/27/06, Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
> Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
>
> Other than the cockpit, the only places I used T-88 were
> joints that were not perfect, or
> places where I couldn't get good clamping pressure.
> ...
>
> Jack
What's this not perfect stuff? Jack, you surprise me, I thought if it's not
perfect you do it all over again?
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol |
A really interesting article on poly glues 9like gurilla glue) Vs
rescorcinal.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. resorcinol
On 11/27/06, Phillips, Jack wrote:
Other than the cockpit, the only places I used T-88 were
joints that were not perfect, or
places where I couldn't get good clamping pressure.
...
Jack
What's this not perfect stuff? Jack, you surprise me, I thought if
it's not perfect you do it all over again?
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue) |
>From the KRNet archives (not posted by me):
>I just called the Gorilla Glue folks at the phone number on the bottle.
>Tensile strength on Douglas Fir is 1700 psi. T-88 is 7000 psi (although
>it's not given as to what kind of wood was tested). Spruce has a
>tensile strength of something like 10,000 psi parallel to the grain and
>130 perpendicular to the grain, and there are other factors involved
>as well, but you might could argue for most applications that either
>would do. But T-88 is stronger than Gorilla Glue, and I personally
>would use T-88.
>
>One other deciding factor might be shelf life. The bottle of GG that I
>picked up is less than a year old and has only been opened once, and
>very little was used, but it's solid as a rock. T-88 lasts for years with
>no
>perceptible change. I've never seen it go bad. For airplane use, I would
>simply use the best.
There was also mention made of the fact that urethane glues will foam up in
the joint, causing some widening of the joint with resultant loss of
tolerance even if clamped up tight. What you end up with is hardened foam
in the joint and the strength of the joint becomes the strength of the foam.
Based on what I've heard about Gorilla Glue and other similar products,
they have their place but not on aircraft structures.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Chuck,
Please send me your address so I can send out your new christmas present UPS.
I'll send santa's invoice later...
Ken H.
Fargo,ND
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
My address is 840 Woodley Dr., Atlanta,Ga, 30318. Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide
To: Pietenpol
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 5:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chuck G
November 08, 2006 - November 27, 2006
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fl