Pietenpol-List Archive Browser

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fm
November 27, 2006 - December 11, 2006

Chuck, Please send me your address so I can send out your new christmas present UPS. I'll send santa's invoice later... Ken H. Fargo,ND ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/27/2006 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Continental C-125 core value??
Date: Nov 27, 2006
Anyone have any idea what the core value is for a Continental C-125? Complete but without mags or starter. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: GN-1 biplane
Date: Nov 27, 2006
I know there were a few finished and flying but beyond that I know nothing. Does anyong have any info regarding the biplane conversion of a GN-1 or even a Piet for that matter??? A woman is selling a nearly complete GN-1 bipe nearby and was asking me to help her sell. It's nearly finished. just needs wings covered. It's an interesting plane. I went to see it today. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 27, 2006
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue)
In a message dated 11/27/2006 5:59:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: Based on what I've heard about Gorilla Glue and other similar products, they have their place but not on aircraft structures. Oscar Zuniga I absolutely agree with Oscar. I have used urethane glues extensively, but would never consider them for aircraft. Then again, what do I know? A man I met in NC named John Jeffries built his entire airplane using Titebond III, the stuff you get right off the shelf at Lowes. As far as I know, it is still flying. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue)
Hi Ron, I don't believe Titebond III is a urethane glue; it is an alphatic resin and is much more resistant to moisture, etc. It is a very good woodworking glue. Cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Regrets?
Hi All, I have a few regrets as to the way I did things on my Piet, one of them being that I wish I would have stained all the cockpit wood before varnishing. I used birtch plywood so the color is very blond. The guy who built the red and black Sky Scout at Brodhead (can't remember his name) stained his whole airframe to make it look "antique". I think it was Minwax Puritan Pine color. Very cool looking. Also I wish I would have made my glove box larger a la Mike Cuy. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Is a firewall necessary?
Hi All, I am using a Ford A motor and am contemplating adding a stainless firewall to the airplane. Of course it will add unwelcome weight and I am concerned with that. Should I put it only on the large vertical area or also to the "shelf" part where the mag goes? What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read]
Dear Listers, Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web development and CGI design during this period. I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few. For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet connection with full static addressing. The computer servers found here include a brand new, quad-processor Xeon Linux server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage, soon to be upgraded to over 6 Terra Bytes! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month this Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone! I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists. This year I added another rack to house the new MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition of the second rack: http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister. But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you... and YOU! To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running! Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue)
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I mistakenly used gorilla glue on the rubber trim I put on the edges of my wing end covers.It foamed up and I spent hours trying to get the excess off of it without damaging the rubber and surface of the cover.As you said it has it's place.Exactly where that is I'm not sure but it sure wasn't the place I put it.Live and learn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Hi Dan...A firewall is only necessary if your engine catches fire..Just kidding...But then, a DAR will probably not sign off on your plane for it's airworthness certificate if all the plywood is not protected by metal. If it were my plane I would want the shelf area protected as well as the lower section. If you ever need it it will be well worth the extra weight. Use the lightest recommended gauge metal and back it up with firewall insulation material. Ed G. >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:18:34 EST > >Hi All, > >I am using a Ford A motor and am contemplating adding a stainless firewall >to the airplane. Of course it will add unwelcome weight and I am concerned >with that. Should I put it only on the large vertical area or also to the >"shelf" part where the mag goes? What are the opinions out there on this >subject >of firewalls? > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue)
In a message dated 11/28/2006 12:53:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimboyer(at)hughes.net writes: Hi Ron, I don't believe Titebond III is a urethane glue; it is an alphatic resin and is much more resistant to moisture, etc. It is a very good woodworking glue. Cheers, Jim I realize that, Jim. I was just pointing out another instance where someone used an adhesive that might not be appropriate for aircraft. Harvey then wrote about using the urethane glue, then having to spend hours cleaning up the part after the glue expanded and cured. This is one major reason I would never even consider it for a Piet. I use it in my sign business when I need to glue and clamp up narrower widths of wood to produce wider boards. For this purpose, it is great because it is strong and easy to sand and clean up the joints (which must be perfect). Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
Ed, What is the firewall insulation material you refer to? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue)
Date: Nov 28, 2006
I didn't mean to suggest using it as a structural glue, but it has some great uses in the model world. Holding hinges in the wood, locking ribs onto a trailing edge sheet, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:12 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue) > > I mistakenly used gorilla glue on the rubber trim I put on the edges of > my wing end covers.It foamed up and I spent hours trying to get the > excess off of it without damaging the rubber and surface of the cover.As > you said it has it's place.Exactly where that is I'm not sure but it > sure wasn't the place I put it.Live and learn. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-88 vs. urethane (Gorilla Glue)
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I didn't use it as a structural glue.I just wanted something to hold the rubber trim on.I could have used the same stuff they use for putting model aircraft together but I figured I would try this stuff called Gorilla.I knew it would expand but I had no idea how much.I should have just tried it on a small piece to see what the outcome would be and go from there.Like I said live and learn.I figure by the time I'm 150 years old I'll have it down pretty good. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 28, 2006
I used aluminum instead of stainless for the firewall, not knowing better at the time. I then glued on a fiberfrax matting on front of it, good to 2800 degrees. Above the shelf, I used Firewall 2000 blanket, behind the galvanized former for the turtle deck. Both products are in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. If I was going to do it again, I would just use .024 stainless. Don't worry so much about weight foreward of C.G. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 1:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? Hi All, I am using a Ford A motor and am contemplating adding a stainless firewall to the airplane. Of course it will add unwelcome weight and I am concerned with that. Should I put it only on the large vertical area or also to the "shelf" part where the mag goes? What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 28, 2006
I can't pull the name of it out of my head right now and I don't have an ACS catalog with me here at work. The stuff I used looks similar to asbestos sheet and comes in either 1/16" or 1/8" thickness. It sandwiches between the metal and wood. It's purpose is to keep the hot sheet metal from setting the wood on fire hopefully buying you enough time to get on the ground. I used the 1/8" . I think it's in the "firewall" section of your Aircraft Spruce catalog. It's not required but it is good insurance. A gasoline or oil fire fed by 70 mph winds can get really hot, really fast. Ed >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:21:24 EST > >Ed, > >What is the firewall insulation material you refer to? > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Fiberfrax. Page 128 of the current AS&S catalog. Good stuff. Jack Phillips Hoping to fly the Piet one last time tomorrow before it's annual expires on Friday -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? I can't pull the name of it out of my head right now and I don't have an ACS catalog with me here at work. The stuff I used looks similar to asbestos sheet and comes in either 1/16" or 1/8" thickness. It sandwiches between the metal and wood. It's purpose is to keep the hot sheet metal from setting the wood on fire hopefully buying you enough time to get on the ground. I used the 1/8" . I think it's in the "firewall" section of your Aircraft Spruce catalog. It's not required but it is good insurance. A gasoline or oil fire fed by 70 mph winds can get really hot, really fast. Ed >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:21:24 EST > >Ed, > >What is the firewall insulation material you refer to? > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 28, 2006
it's FiberFrax and I used it on my firewall as well. I've put a sample on a piece of wood and held the torch to the sample for up to a minute and the wood was only discolored not ignited. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? > > > I can't pull the name of it out of my head right now and I don't have an ACS > catalog with me here at work. The stuff I used looks similar to asbestos > sheet and comes in either 1/16" or 1/8" thickness. It sandwiches between the > metal and wood. It's purpose is to keep the hot sheet metal from setting the > wood on fire hopefully buying you enough time to get on the ground. I used > the 1/8" . I think it's in the "firewall" section of your Aircraft Spruce > catalog. It's not required but it is good insurance. A gasoline or oil fire > fed by 70 mph winds can get really hot, really fast. Ed > > >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com > >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? > >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:21:24 EST > > > >Ed, > > > >What is the firewall insulation material you refer to? > > > >Dan Helsper > >Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: you don't need a firewall
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
On a Breezy........ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Re: you don't need a firewall
In a message dated 11/28/2006 12:05:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov writes: On a Breezy........ That was funny, Mike. Do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet
Date: Nov 27, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Dan, My original axle was .120" wall, 1-1/2" OD, 4130 Condition N. After a forced landing broke the axle, causing substantial damage to the airframe, I performed a stress analysis on the axle and found that at .120 wall, the axle was only good for about 2 g's (which is about how hard I hit on that landing, avoiding hitting a pickup truck). The EAA recommends that landing gear be capable of handling 3.1 g's, no more and no less. More, and a hard landing might damage other parts of the structure. Less, and the gear may just not be strong enough (as mine wasn't). In order to make an axle of 4130 condition N that can handle 3.1 g's requires .25" wall. However, .25" wall tubing of the length required weighs well over 20 lbs. My new axle is .188" wall, then I had it heat treated to 160,000 psi tensile strength (condition N has a tensile strength of 90,000 psi). I was incorrect in saying it weighed 20 lbs. It weighs 12 lbs, according to my notes. I was apparently remembering the weight of the .25" wall axle, which IS over 20 lbs. That is why I elected to heat treat my new axle, to get it to the same strength as the 20 lbs axle without all that weight. Expensive process though. Cost $475 to heat treat it, or about $50 per pound of weight saved. Don't get me wrong, my Pietenpol flies well, but it will never set a record on climb performance, and I wish it were lighter. I tried to be very weight conscious during the construction but a number of factors added up to more weight than I like. If I built another one, I would not make the fuselage wider. I certainly would not paint another one with Aerothane - that paint is VERY heavy. I figure I'm carrying around close to 60 lbs of paint. I wish I didn't need a radio or transponder in mine, but it sure makes it easier flying in Raleigh's Class C airspace (which is scheduled to go to Class B soon). The battery and the avionics add nearly 18 lbs of useless weight. The ELT (which didn't go off during the forced landing, even though it was hard enough to break the axle) adds another 4 lbs. My leather seats with Temperfoam padding add another couple of pounds, but they sure were nice and comfortable on the 37 hour round trip to Brodhead and OSH and back. Everything is a trade off. I know there are a number of Piets that are considerably heavier than mine. -----Original Message----- Jack, What wall thickness was your straight axle? You mentioned a weight of 20 lbs, so I went out to my hangar and weighed mine (a full 72" long at this point before trimming) and it was only about 10 lbs. The thickness on mine is .120 I believe. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Re: heavy piet
In a message dated 11/28/2006 12:18:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: I certainly would not paint another one with Aerothane - that paint is VERY heavy. What would you use, Jack? I was planning to use Aerothane on mine. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
PolyTone. Lighter and one heck of a lot easier to repair Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietsrneat(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:33 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet In a message dated 11/28/2006 12:18:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: I certainly would not paint another one with Aerothane - that paint is VERY heavy. What would you use, Jack? I was planning to use Aerothane on mine. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 28, 2006
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan, Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that should be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less expensive Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners and sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to collect. For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit to the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless Steel firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not weave) I could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to back it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of the FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my Tailwind. Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will Not burn. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: heavy piet
Date: Nov 28, 2006
MessageJack, Let's hear the story about you trying to run down a pickup with your Piet. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:55 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Hi Dan, was only good for about 2 g's (which is about how hard I hit on that landing, avoiding hitting a pickup truck). a _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2006
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Phillips, Jack wrote: > A couple of concerns, Ken, > > I made my Pietenpol 1" wider than plans, and used the long fuselage > plans. The result is a pretty heavy Pietenpol (empty weight 745 lbs), > which climbs even worse than usual for a Piet. There are a couple of > problems with the long, wide fuselage. The first is weight. SOme > years ago, someone on this list compiled a list of Pietenpols at > Brodhead, comparing their empty weights and CG locations. Every one > of the long fuselage Piets came in at over 700 lbs, and a couple were > over 800 lbs. You wouldn't think that adding 9" or so would add 50 to > 100 lbs, but it seems to do so. Making it wider adds substantial > weight as well. The other problem with a wider fuselage is in > expense. With a 24" wide fuselage, you can use a single sheet of > plywood ripped lengthwise for the floorboards and firewall. If you > make it wider, you will use a lot more plywood, with substantial waste. > > The Pietenpol is supposed to have a gross weight of about 1050 lbs. > If you weigh 254 lbs, and carry 10 gallons of gas, your airplane can > only weigh 736 lbs EMPTY, and you'd probably better not plan on > carrying any passengers. I have flown mine with myself and a 205 lb > passenger, and 15 gallons of fuel on board, for a gross weight of > 1,240 lbs. It flew, but I was glad we were flying off a 6,000' paved > runway. Climb rate was a shade under 100 feet per minute. > > If I were to build another one, I would build the short fuselage and > keep it standard width. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs, and I've flown Mike > Cuy's standard width, short fuse Piet and found it nearly as > comfortable as my own, with a better climb rate. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > KMHeide > Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:42 PM > To: Pietenpol > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > Fellow Pieters: > > Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you > build it 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major > changes is the structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a > guy who is 6'0 and 254lbs....is the current size of the plane > comfortable? what modification if any have you made to improve > function and comfort of this plane design. > > Ken H. > Fargo, ND > > > >_________________________________________________ > > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
I may be required to change my build strategy and go with the metal tube design. I am curious to learn about any appreciable weight advantages/disadvantages or considerations between the wooden and steel versions. I just learned that the wood worker I had to assist in this project may be moving in the near future so I may need to make some drastic changes in my build plan and go metal. I am better equipped and adept at metal than I am at wood,however I may be able to get him to build the wings with me before he moves. Any input, comment or advice is greatly appreciated! John -----Original Message----- From: enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... Phillips, Jack wrote: A couple of concerns, Ken, I made my Pietenpol 1" wider than plans, and used the long fuselage plans. The result is a pretty heavy Pietenpol (empty weight 745 lbs), which climbs even worse than usual for a Piet. There are a couple of problems with the long, wide fuselage. The first is weight. SOme years ago, someone on this list compiled a list of Pietenpols at Brodhead, comparing their empty weights and CG locations. Every one of the long fuselage Piets came in at over 700 lbs, and a couple were over 800 lbs. You wouldn't think that adding 9" or so would add 50 to 100 lbs, but it seems to do so. Making it wider adds substantial weight as well. The other problem with a wider fuselage is in expense. With a 24" wide fuselage, you can use a single sheet of plywood ripped lengthwise for the floorboards and firewall. If you make it wider, you will use a lot more plywood, with substantial waste. The Pietenpol is supposed to have a gross weight of about 1050 lbs. If you weigh 254 lbs, and carry 10 gallons of gas, your airplane can only weigh 736 lbs EMPTY, and you'd probably better not plan on carrying any passengers. I have flown mine with myself and a 205 lb passenger, and 15 gallons of fuel on board, for a gross weight of 1,240 lbs. It flew, but I was glad we were flying off a 6,000' paved runway. Climb rate was a shade under 100 feet per minute. If I were to build another one, I would build the short fuselage and keep it standard width. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs, and I've flown Mike Cuy's standard width, short fuse Piet and found it nearly as comfortable as my own, with a better climb rate. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... Fellow Pieters: Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you build it 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes is the structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is 6'0 and 254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable? what modification if any have you made to improve function and comfort of this plane design. Ken H. Fargo, ND _________________________________________________ Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
John I have heard that the metal fuselage is lighter than the wood version, and compared to a spruce fuselage would be cheaper also. Rick On 11/29/06, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote: > > I may be required to change my build strategy and go with the metal tube > design. I am curious to learn about any appreciable weight > advantages/disadvantages or considerations between the wooden and steel > versions. I just learned that the wood worker I had to assist in this > project may be moving in the near future so I may need to make some drastic > changes in my build plan and go metal. I am better equipped and adept at > metal than I am at wood,however I may be able to get him to build the > wings with me before he moves. > > Any input, comment or advice is greatly appreciated! > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 2:13 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > Phillips, Jack wrote: > > A couple of concerns, Ken, > > I made my Pietenpol 1" wider than plans, and used the long fuselage pla > ns. The result is a pretty heavy Pietenpol (empty weight 745 lbs), which > climbs even worse than usual for a Piet. There are a couple of problems > with the long, wide fuselage. The first is weight. SOme years ago, someone > on this list compiled a list of Pietenpols at Brodhead, comparing their > empty weights and CG locations. Every one of the long fuselage Piets came > in at over 700 lbs, and a couple were over 800 lbs. You wouldn't think that > adding 9" or so would add 50 to 100 lbs, but it seems to do so. Making it > wider adds substantial weight as well. The other problem with a wider > fuselage is in expense. W ith a 24" wide fuselage, you can use a single > sheet of plywood ripped lengthwise for the floorboards and firewall. If you > make it wider, you will use a lot more plywood, with substantial waste. > > The Pietenpol is supposed to have a gross weight of about 1050 lbs. If > you weigh 254 lbs, and carry 10 gallons of gas, your airplane can only weigh > 736 lbs EMPTY, and you'd probably better not plan on carrying any > passengers. I have flown mine with myself and a 205 lb passenger, and 15 > gallons of fuel on board, for a gross weight of 1,240 lbs. It flew, but I > was glad we were flying off a 6,000' paved runway. Climb rate was a shade > under 100 feet per minute. > > If I were to build another one, I would build the short fuselage and keep > it standard width. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs, and I've flown Mike Cuy'sstandard width, short fuse > Piet and found it nearly as comfortable as my own, with a better climb > rate. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto > :owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *KMHeide > *Sent:* Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:42 PM > *To:* Pietenpol > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > Fellow Pieters: > > Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you build it > 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes is the > structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is 6'0 and > 254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable? what modification if > any have you made to improve function and comfort of this plane design. > > Ken H. > Fargo, ND > > > _________________________________________________ > > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > > * > > * > > > * > > * > > ------------------------------ > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 29, 2006
Chuck, An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel? Al in Portland Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan, Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that should be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less expensive Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners and sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to collect. For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit to the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless Steel firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not weave) I could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to back it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of the FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my Tailwind. Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will Not burn. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Good luck drilling all the holes in it you will require. Titanium is difficult to work. Should be good enough from a temperature standpoint - it melts at 3034 F (steel melts at around 2500 - 2700 F, depending on the alloy). Ti will save you some weight, where you don't need to save it. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Lyscars Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:14 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? Chuck, An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel? Al in Portland Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan, Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that should be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less expensive Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners and sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to collect. For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit to the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless Steel firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not weave) I could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to back it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of the FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my Tailwind. Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will Not burn. Chuck G. NX770CG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2006
Alan, Titanium is lighter than stainless, More corrosion resistant than stainless But has a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless, almost the same as Aluminum. Thus I would not recommend using it as the main objective of the firewall is insulation from heat not fire (the same reason we use fibrefrax) I work for a company that makes plate heat exchangers out of titanium, excellent material for that duty. Hans "Alan Lyscars" To Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? 11/29/2006 09:13 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Chuck, An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel? Al in Portland Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan, Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that should be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less expensive Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners and sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to collect. For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit to the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless Steel firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not weave) I could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to back it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of the FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my Tailwind. Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will Not burn. Chuck G. NX770CG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Is a firewall necessary?
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
At a certain heat temperature,of which I cannot remember,aluminum will act like magnesium ignited and believe me you don't want that for a fire wall.The English found this out in the Fuaklins War(not sure of spelling here) when their ships burned quite quickly to the waterline. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: November 29, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? Alan, Titanium is lighter than stainless, More corrosion resistant than stainless But has a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless, almost the same as Aluminum. Thus I would not recommend using it as the main objective of the firewall is insulation from heat not fire (the same reason we use fibrefrax) I work for a company that makes plate heat exchangers out of titanium, excellent material for that duty. Hans "Alan Lyscars" To Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? 11/29/2006 09:13 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Chuck, An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel? Al in Portland Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? Dan, Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that should be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less expensive Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners and sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to collect. For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit to the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless Steel firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not weave) I could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to back it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of the FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my Tailwind. Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will Not burn. Chuck G. NX770CG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Nov 29, 2006
The Piet that I bought in Oct. built by a veteran homebuilder has a steel tube fuse and tail framework. The plane is covered in ceconite with two coats dope and two coats automotive acrylic. It is powered by a Cont. A-65 and has an alum. 15 gal. fuel tank. Landing Gear is typical with 6x6.00 tires. Empty weight 676 lb. About the same as a typical wood frame Piet. One advantage is that it has a passenger cockpit door. Disadvantage that you can't mount add ons with screws. you have to use those wrap around clamps. also wood just looks so much prettier than steel tube. Roman Bukolt NX 20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... John I have heard that the metal fuselage is lighter than the wood version, and compared to a spruce fuselage would be cheaper also. Rick On 11/29/06, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote: I may be required to change my build strategy and go with the metal tube design. I am curious to learn about any appreciable weight advantages/disadvantages or considerations between the wooden and steel versions. I just learned that the wood worker I had to assist in this project may be moving in the near future so I may need to make some drastic changes in my build plan and go metal. I am better equipped and adept at metal than I am at wood,however I may be able to get him to build the wings with me before he moves. Any input, comment or advice is greatly appreciated! John -----Original Message----- From: enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... Phillips, Jack wrote: A couple of concerns, Ken, I made my Pietenpol 1" wider than plans, and used the long fuselage plans. The result is a pretty heavy Pietenpol (empty weight 745 lbs), which climbs even worse than usual for a Piet. There are a couple of problems with the long, wide fuselage. The first is weight. SOme years ago, someone on this list compiled a list of Pietenpols at Brodhead, comparing their empty weights and CG locations. Every one of the long fuselage Piets came in at over 700 lbs, and a couple were over 800 lbs. You wouldn't think that adding 9" or so would add 50 to 100 lbs, but it seems to do so. Making it wider adds substantial weight as well. The other problem with a wider fuselage is in expense. W ith a 24" wide fuselage, you can use a single sheet of plywood ripped lengthwise for the floorboards and firewall. If you make it wider, you will use a lot more plywood, with substantial waste. The Pietenpol is supposed to have a gross weight of about 1050 lbs. If you weigh 254 lbs, and carry 10 gallons of gas, your airplane can only weigh 736 lbs EMPTY, and you'd probably better not plan on carrying any passengers. I have flown mine with myself and a 205 lb passenger, and 15 gallons of fuel on board, for a gross weight of 1,240 lbs. It flew, but I was glad we were flying off a 6,000' paved runway. Climb rate was a shade under 100 feet per minute. If I were to build another one, I would build the short fuselage and keep it standard width. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs, and I've flown Mike Cuy's standard width, short fuse Piet and found it nearly as comfortable as my own, with a better climb rate. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 4:42 PM To: Pietenpol Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... Fellow Pieters: Question.....If you are going to build a wider fuselage would you build it 3" or 4" wider? Also, are they going to be any major changes is the structural integrity, rigging etc.... Lastly, for a guy who is 6'0 and 254lbs....is the current size of the plane comfortable? what modification if any have you made to improve function and comfort of this plane design. Ken H. Fargo, ND _________________________________________________Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- www.aeroelectric.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2006
Just to compare. My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a similar setup. Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. Hans NX15KV ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
It's in the Archives. Here's a link to it: http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=36631117?KEYS =icarus_?LISTNAME=Pietenpol?HITNUMBER=44?SERIAL=09083512216?SHOWBUT TONS YES Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:42 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Jack, Let's hear the story about you trying to run down a pickup with your Piet. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 6:55 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Hi Dan, was only good for about 2 g's (which is about how hard I hit on that landing, avoiding hitting a pickup truck). a _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Jack, Just went back to the archives to re-read your story. I remember reading it back then, but I didn't remember the part about the photo shoot pictures for Private Pilot. Anyway, I was wondering what happened to the article and/or photos? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
By the time I got the plane rebuilt and was ready to re-shoot thephotos, Private Pilot was no longer in business. The author/photographer that was doing the story now writes freelance for AOPA Pilot. He's trying to get some interest there for the story, but they are much less interested in homebuilts. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:56 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Jack, Just went back to the archives to re-read your story. I remember reading it back then, but I didn't remember the part about the photo shoot pictures for Private Pilot. Anyway, I was wondering what happened to the article and/or photos? Bill C _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol
Just a short comment, Lets remember that some of the old airplanes (some still flying) were glued with pre resorcinol ot T-88 glues, like Caseine glue and few are still flying or in museums in perfect shape. I have a few family furniture bonded with Caseine Glue that is in better shape that the newer with modern glues... Barnishing and mantainance is very important will prevent any wood around the joint to fail for moisture, the glue will be perfect but the wood around could fail... like an old barn roof. Good inspection every year to all wood, wood joints and ply is important for a sound (wood) airplane. Dont forget proper installed dain holes and some venting. Saludos Gary Gower Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours of boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet! This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are taverns, hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol? I'll settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation use for a long time. But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2006
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
In a message dated 11/29/2006 9:17:39 AM Central Standard Time, alyscars(at)maine.rr.com writes: Chuck, An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel? Al in Portland Maine Al, The sheet of Titanium would be suitable for a firewall, if it is not more than .020 or .025 thick. Like Jack P. mentioned, from a heat, flame, and weight standpoint it would be suitable, and it is difficult to drill, but it can be done...you'll go through lots of drill bits. I've drilled Titanium at work, and it puts of a very offending, and maybe toxic, odor. The primary reason it is not used is the high cost. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: heavy piet
Date: Nov 29, 2006
MessageJack, Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine? Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake them in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of the other) makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy day. Rather than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the middle with the sides at about 45 degrees. Thanks Gene _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ectric.com ">www.buildersbooks.com og.com builthelp.com ..matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Nov 29, 2006
And I have a 35 lb. lead weight bolted to the top of my A-65 because this Piet was originally designed for a Corvair engine. Roman Bukolt. Actually with the added dead weight it now weighs 35lbs. more, empty, and mine is a long fuselage and a three piece wing spanning 30ft 5 ins. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > > Just to compare. > > My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece > wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. > No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), > center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons > > That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a > similar setup. > > Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. > > > Hans > > NX15KV > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Gorilla Glue (last post)
Date: Nov 29, 2006
I did use Gorilla Glue (my hangar mate's, not mine) on one place on 41CC and it was an excellent application. I fabricated new metal straps to support the fuel tank from the X-members ahead of the passenger's panel and needed to reattach the strips of felt padding that came off the old straps. Gorilla Glue! The felt is very coarse and porous and would have required gobbing on any other glue, but I simply dampened the felt, applied Gorilla Glue, and clamped the felt to the metal straps with some clothespins, knowing that the glue would foam up into the felt and make it grab. It did. Like I said, it does have a place and this is one. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2006
Subject: Re: heavy piet
In a message dated 11/29/2006 3:10:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: By the time I got the plane rebuilt and was ready to re-shoot thephotos, Private Pilot was no longer in business. The author/photographer that was doing the story now writes freelance for AOPA Pilot. He's trying to get some interest there for the story, but they are much less interested in homebuilts. Jack And what was the story on the engine? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Well, its November 30th and that means three things... 1) Today I am now officially 43 years old... (arg...) 2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser! 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-) If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid. I will be posting the List of Contributors next week, so make sure your name is on it! :-) Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly appreciated. List Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gorilla Glue (last post)
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
That might work on the velcrove that keeps coming off that holds my GPS unit. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: November 29, 2006 10:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gorilla Glue (last post) I did use Gorilla Glue (my hangar mate's, not mine) on one place on 41CC and it was an excellent application. I fabricated new metal straps to support the fuel tank from the X-members ahead of the passenger's panel and needed to reattach the strips of felt padding that came off the old straps. Gorilla Glue! The felt is very coarse and porous and would have required gobbing on any other glue, but I simply dampened the felt, applied Gorilla Glue, and clamped the felt to the metal straps with some clothespins, knowing that the glue would foam up into the felt and make it grab. It did. Like I said, it does have a place and this is one. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 060 1&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Subject: Icarus Plummet axle failure
Jack, I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall thickness axle failure. Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall thickness. I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to use 12 gauge chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall thickness. I wonder if your axle failure was more a function of the welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall thickness of the axle. I am thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it magna-fluxed after I weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle, but just weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Icarus Plummet axle failure
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
The stress analysis I did indicates that a .120" axle will fail at a load of 2.1 g's (assuming 1150 lbs gross weight). That did not take into account any stress concentrations due to the welding or holes. As long as you can guarentee you will never make a hard landing, it should be fine. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:07 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure Jack, I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall thickness axle failure. Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall thickness. I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to use 12 gauge chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall thickness. I wonder if your axle failure was more a function of the welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall thickness of the axle. I am thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it magna-fluxed after I weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle, but just weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: heavy piet Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
MessageGene Bending Lexan is rather easy. You will need a large size oven and an understanding wife. Try the oven at about 225-250 deg. Don't set the Lexan on any metal surfaces, it will leave marks. Cover surface with paper, like a grogery bag. Try test peices first for timing. After 10+/- min. it will soften. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Jack, Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine? Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake them in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of the other) makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy day. Rather than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the middle with the sides at about 45 degrees. Thanks Gene _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ectric.com ">www.buildersbooks.com og.com builthelp.com ..matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Roman I was faced with the same thing, but instead of dead weight, I added a battery on the firewall. I powers a belly strobe and my VHF and GPS. I never worry about running out of power in flight. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > > And I have a 35 lb. lead weight bolted to the top of my A-65 because this > Piet was originally designed for a Corvair engine. > Roman Bukolt. > Actually with the added dead weight it now weighs 35lbs. more, empty, and > mine is a long fuselage and a three piece wing spanning 30ft 5 ins. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:03 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > >> >> >> Just to compare. >> >> My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece >> wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. >> No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), >> center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons >> >> That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a >> similar setup. >> >> Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. >> >> >> Hans >> >> NX15KV >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
As you can see from my windows,they are sectionalized using aluminum joints.Kind of gives it that retro look.I painted them black for extra effect.My AME wanted me to change them to the lexan type that just curve around but I like this type better.Makes it look like it came out of the twenty's. ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Operator error. I had not been getting enough carb heat with my heat muff arrangement, so I had added a wad of stainless steel wool to increase the heat transfer area inside the heat muff. Tests indicated the steel wool was secure, and I had flown with it for about 5 hours with no problems. However, in all previous flights I had only turned carb heat on just before going to idle power. On this flight, I was picking up carb ice in level flight, so I turned the carb heat on and continued to run the engine at cruise power or higher. The constant suction from the carburetor was sufficient to suck the stainless steel wook through a very small orifice and into the throat of the carburetor, where it choked the engine to the point that it would only put out about 1200 RPM. The good news was, when I pulled the carb after the incident, all the steel wool was still in the throat of the carb, and none of it got into the engine. Needless to say, during the rebuild the heat muffs received a lot of attention. BTW, the FAA was very good to work with throughout the whole experience. They wanted a report when I figured out the cause of the engine failure. Once I sent them that (with pictures) they were satisfied, and congratulated me on the landing (and on not hurting anyone). No repercussions. I had heard horror stories about what they would do to you if you landed on a highway. I was glad I was alone, with a current medical and BFR, and was well within the box they had asigned for my testing (it was within the 25 hour test phase - the plane only had 7 hours on it at the time). Jack NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietsrneat(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:43 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet In a message dated 11/29/2006 3:10:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: By the time I got the plane rebuilt and was ready to re-shoot thephotos, Private Pilot was no longer in business. The author/photographer that was doing the story now writes freelance for AOPA Pilot. He's trying to get some interest there for the story, but they are much less interested in homebuilts. Jack And what was the story on the engine? _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: heavy piet Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Holy cow what a control stick! Jack Textor As you can see from my windows,they are sectionalized using aluminum joints.Kind of gives it that retro look.I painted them black for extra effect.My AME wanted me to change them to the lexan type that just curve around but I like this type better.Makes it look like it came out of the twenty's. ________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: heavy piet Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Hi Gene If you just want to bend the lexan in a straight line, rather than form it, you could do it with a strip heater. An old oven element would be enough as I would think you are not talking much more than about 12". I would suggest getting some offcuts and experimenting. A heat gun would also do the job. You could clamp some plywood to each side of the bend and just leave 1/2" exposed. Heat till soft and bend to a set angle let cool and do the other side. Best regards Steve in maine >From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Lexan bending >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:13:32 -0600 > >MessageGene >Bending Lexan is rather easy. You will need a large size oven and an >understanding wife. Try the oven at about 225-250 deg. Don't set the >Lexan on any metal surfaces, it will leave marks. Cover surface with >paper, like a grogery bag. Try test peices first for timing. After 10+/- >min. it will soften. >Dick N > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gene & Tammy > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet > > > Jack, > Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine? > Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into >Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake them >in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of the other) >makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy day. Rather >than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the middle with the sides >at about 45 degrees. > Thanks > Gene > > >_________________________________________________ > >This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain >privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have >received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > >ectric.com >">www.buildersbooks.com >og.com >builthelp.com >..matronics.com/contribution >">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > >_________________________________________________ > >This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain >privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have >received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing ribs
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms of strength and weight? Is there a wing stress chart available, something that illustrates the stress values at specific wing locations? Thanks for your help John -----Original Message----- From: Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com Sent: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 8:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure The stress analysis I did indicates that a .120" axle will fail at a load of 2.1 g's (assuming 1150 lbs gross weight). That did not take into account any stress concentrations due to the welding or holes. As long as you can guarentee you will never make a hard landing, it should be fine. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure Jack, I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall thickness axle failure. Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall thickness. I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to use 12 gauge chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall thickness. I wonder if your axle failure was more a function of the welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall thickness of the axle. I am thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it magna-fluxed after I weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle, but just weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ectric.com ">www.buildersbooks.com og.com builthelp.com .matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
My understanding was that Lexan (polycarbonate) could be bent without using heat or anything else, just like sheet metal in a brake or around a form, especially thinner stuff, and it would not break. Incorrect? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: heavy piet Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
MessageLexan which is polycarbonate can be cold formed, unlike acrylic A.K.A Plexiglas. I've built many machine guards when I worked at Oscar Mayer out of Lexan. Needless to say you have to way overbend because of spring back but it can be done. I've found that heating with a heat gun can be touchy because before you know it you might have heated too much and get distortion in the bend. Roman Bukolt NX 20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Lexan bending Gene Bending Lexan is rather easy. You will need a large size oven and an understanding wife. Try the oven at about 225-250 deg. Don't set the Lexan on any metal surfaces, it will leave marks. Cover surface with paper, like a grogery bag. Try test peices first for timing. After 10+/- min. it will soften. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: heavy piet Jack, Did you ever figure out the problem with the engine? Also, as a side note, do you know how a person can bend angles into Lexan? N502R has windshilds made from tinted Lexan. I need to remake them in clear, as looking thru two tinted windshilds (one in front of the other) makes it hard to see things like towers and wires on a cloudy day. Rather than being rounded, my windshilds are straight in the middle with the sides at about 45 degrees. Thanks Gene _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ectric.com ">www.buildersbooks.com og.com builthelp.com ..matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
You can bend it, but at the bend it will turn white. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lexan bending --> My understanding was that Lexan (polycarbonate) could be bent without using heat or anything else, just like sheet metal in a brake or around a form, especially thinner stuff, and it would not break. Incorrect? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: room temp bending of Lexan
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Oscar-- I bent my windshields without heat-- they are Lexan and held in place with three aluminum brackets. I cut the Lexan with a sabre saw, filed the edges with a metal file, then sanded them smoother and drilled, using a regular drill bit, the holes. I ran a de-burr or counter sink by hand on the three drill holes (each side) to help prevent any stress risers. Plexi is the bear to work with and will break if not warm bent. Bingelis explains the whole thing in his books--what you can do with each type of plastic. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Subject: Re: Lexan bending
I bent my windshields cold in a homemade brake. I used 3/16 material. The other two piets on the field did theirs the same way. Seems to work fine. Mine have ben on the plane since 1995 with no cracking or crazing. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: room temp bending of Lexan
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Mike, I don't recall seeing the? Leather ? behind your cockpit, is that new? Jack Textor Oscar-- I bent my windshields without heat-- they are Lexan and held in place with three aluminum brackets. I cut the Lexan with a sabre saw, filed the edges with a metal file, then sanded them smoother and drilled, using a regular drill bit, the holes. I ran a de-burr or counter sink by hand on the three drill holes (each side) to help prevent any stress risers. Plexi is the bear to work with and will break if not warm bent. Bingelis explains the whole thing in his books--what you can do with each type of plastic. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk, Bruce" <bkirk(at)yccd.edu>
Subject: Re: wing ribs
Date: Nov 30, 2006
John Look at the Bowers Flybaby, it uses plywood ribs. The conclusion from what I looked into is that the Plywood rib is much heavier than that of the traditional builtup rib. A rib that is lighter than that of the traditional method is one that I believe was incorporated in the Longster of the 1930's. It uses no gussets and two cap strips on top of the rib and two on the bottom with the cross members sandwiched in between. Bruce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Gary Are you sure it was caseine glue and not hide glue. Most furniture used hide glue and still do. Put it in a heat pot and spread it on. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower Sent: 11/29/2006 3:18:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. resorcinol Just a short comment, Lets remember that some of the old airplanes (some still flying) were glued with pre resorcinol ot T-88 glues, like Caseine glue and few are still flying or in museums in perfect shape. I have a few family furniture bonded with Caseine Glue that is in better shape that the newer with modern glues... Barnishing and mantainance is very important will prevent any wood around the joint to fail for moisture, the glue will be perfect but the wood around could fail... like an old barn roof. Good inspection every year to all wood, wood joints and ply is important for a sound (wood) airplane. Dont forget proper installed dain holes and some venting. Saludos Gary Gower Oscar Zuniga wrote: Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours of boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet! This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are taverns, hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol? I'll settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation use for a long time. But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Subject: Re: heavy piet Lexan bending
In a message dated 11/30/2006 2:16:46 PM Central Standard Time, conceptmodels(at)tds.net writes: Lexan which is polycarbonate can be cold formed, unlike acrylic A.K.A Plexiglas. One of the drawbacks with Lexan (polycarbonate) is that if fuel comes in contact with it, it will stress crack it. This happened to my first curved 1/8" Lexan windshield, after I overfilled the cowling tank in flight. It had many cracks around the three mounting points, but it never did break. It took several days, or weeks, before the many little cracks showed up. 1/8" curved Lexan (no heat required), with three mount points, is the simplest, lightest, toughest, and easiest to build...oh yeah...and it's to the plans, too. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Subject: Re: wing ribs
In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes: Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms of strength and weight? Plywood wing ribs are much heavier, and not all that much easier to build. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Icarus Plummet axle failure
Date: Nov 30, 2006
MessageJack, Did adding brakes force you to use an axle that is longer than the F&G plans? NX18235 is brakeless and is using 1 1/2 X .120 tubing. I have made some horrifically hard landings at 1100 pounds with no sign of axle bending. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure The stress analysis I did indicates that a .120" axle will fail at a load of 2.1 g's (assuming 1150 lbs gross weight). That did not take into account any stress concentrations due to the welding or holes. As long as you can guarentee you will never make a hard landing, it should be fine. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:07 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet axle failure Jack, I went back in the archives and read your account of the .120 wall thickness axle failure. Mike Cuy commented at that time his axle was ".20 to .250" wall thickness. I went back and looked at the F & G manual, and BHP said to use 12 gauge chrome moly tube, which equates to only .109" wall thickness. I wonder if your axle failure was more a function of the welded guide tube (cracks) than it was wall thickness of the axle. I am thinking I will stick to the .120 tube and get it magna-fluxed after I weld on the guide tubes. I will not drill through the axle, but just weld the guide tubes on the bottom. Comments? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ectric.com ">www.buildersbooks.com og.com builthelp.com .matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Lexan bending
Date: Nov 30, 2006
Chuck wrote- >1/8" curved Lexan (no heat required), with three mount points, is the >simplest, lightest, toughest, and easiest to build...oh yeah...and it's to >the >plans, too. Now you know better than that, Chuck! There warn't no sich thing as polycarbo... parleycarbo...pollywhozis... you know what I mean (Lexan) back in 1932 so how could Lexan be "to the plans"? ;o) Corky built 41CC pretty darned close to what you describe (curved, 1/8" thick, one-piece acrylic) except it has five mounting points per windscreen rather than three. I just thought that if guys were going for the 3-panel rectilinear windscreen and were already going to use metal angles at the bends, they could bend the Lexan cold and cover the crazing or milky color with the metal anyway. Some pop rivets and you're done. There is something to be said for the 3-panel flat windscreen for that old-timey look, too. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Is a firewall necessary?
You won't get enough heat from an engine fire to sustain burning aluminum (it's also a component in solid rocket fuel), but aluminum melts at just over a thousand degrees. It doesn't give much protection after it drips out the bottom of your cowling... Waiting for authorization for my final inspection on NX421GN. Otherwise ready to fly. Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > >At a certain heat temperature,of which I cannot remember,aluminum will >act like magnesium ignited and believe me you don't want that for a fire >wall.The English found this out in the Fuaklins War(not sure of spelling >here) when their ships burned quite quickly to the waterline. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans >Vander Voort >Sent: November 29, 2006 11:04 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? > > > >Alan, > >Titanium is lighter than stainless, >More corrosion resistant than stainless > >But has a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless, almost the >same >as Aluminum. >Thus I would not recommend using it as the main objective of the >firewall >is insulation from heat not fire (the same reason we use fibrefrax) > >I work for a company that makes plate heat exchangers out of titanium, >excellent material for that duty. > >Hans > > > > > "Alan Lyscars" > > > r.com> >To > Sent by: > > owner-pietenpol-l >cc > ist-server@matron > > ics.com >Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall > > necessary? > > 11/29/2006 09:13 > > AM > > > > > > Please respond to > > pietenpol-list@ma > > tronics.com > > > > > > >Chuck, > >An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large >enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless >steel? > >Al in Portland Maine > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:53 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? > > In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, > HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: > What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls? > Dan, > Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that >should > be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less >expensive > Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used > Galvanized just up to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not > into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough > protection into the shelf area because there is so many inside corners >and > sides to protect. That would also cause a place for moisture to >collect. > For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to > protect from an engine fire. When I did the Firewall Forward retrofit >to > the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless >Steel > firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt (not >weave) I > could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to >back > it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superior to > fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of >the > FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my >Tailwind. > Lynn Knoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will >Not > burn. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ">http://www.matronics.com/chref=" > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
That's consistent with mine--663 lb with a C-75, split-axle gear, three piece wing, PolyFiber and long fuse. I have a flop panel, but didn't lengthen the cabanes. Battery, but no starter. Gene Hans Vander Voort wrote: > >Just to compare. > >My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece >wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. >No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), >center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons > >That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a >similar setup. > >Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. > > >Hans > >NX15KV > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Lexan bending
I bent mine cold, in a brake, and didn't get any craziing. I used single-weight lexan from home depot. Gene Phillips, Jack wrote: > >You can bend it, but at the bend it will turn white. > >Jack Phillips > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar >Zuniga >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:04 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lexan bending > > >--> > >My understanding was that Lexan (polycarbonate) could be bent without >using >heat or anything else, just like sheet metal in a brake or around a >form, >especially thinner stuff, and it would not break. Incorrect? > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >_________________________________________________________________ >Fixing up the home? Live Search can help > > >_________________________________________________ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: wing ribs
Don't get spooked by the ribs. Build a jig, and every day, build a new rib. In a month, you'll be done. Everyone will complement you on your workmanship. Gene Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, > amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes: > > Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood > sheet material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the > results in terms of strength and weight? > > Plywood wing ribs are much heavier, and not all that much easier to build. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
There's all kinds of things you could put in the nose. What about that tool roll I know you're all carrying around. It's ballast until you need it for something else. If you do have to add ballast how about a lead ring on the engine just behind the prop hub or a lead button hub on the prop like you see on some Tigermoths. The farther out, the lighter. You could also seal the tail feathers and the dead area behind the bellcrank and fill them with helium. Granted it might be easier to stop eating lunch. Hmmm, no, I think I'll go with the helium. :-) Clif Mister Corky, what's that syringe for? Go way kid, I have to fill all these ping pong balls with helium. > > > Roman > I was faced with the same thing, but instead of dead weight, I added a > battery on the firewall. I powers a belly strobe and my VHF and GPS. I > never worry about running out of power in flight. > Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Subject: Re: Lexan bending
In a message dated 11/30/2006 9:40:31 PM Central Standard Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: Now you know better than that, Chuck! There warn't no sich thing as polycarbo... parleycarbo...pollywhozis... you know what I mean (Lexan) back in 1932 so how could Lexan be "to the plans"? ;o) Ah, yes...ya caught me, Oscar !! Back then they must have called the clear plastic - 'Parilin'. At least that's what he called out for the clear inspection cover on the bottom of the wing, to see the two pulleys just ahead of the aileron horns. However, I think the Parilin was closer in characteristics to Plexi-glass, than Lexan. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Leather behind the cockpit
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Jack-- I had to put that leather on because I was in too much of a hurry and didn't think I should use finishing tapes over the stringers on my turtle deck. Not good. With the 1.8 oz dacron I used getting in and out of the cockpit rubbed those a bit raw atop my turtle deck and before too long I had worn a tear in my fabric so I covered the entire affair with a contact cement backed leather surface. Worked out well and didn't take away too much from the looks I don't think. Note to self: use finishing tapes on all corners, underlying wood members that touch the fabric. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: wing ribs
And even if it takes two months to finish the ribs it really isn't slowing down progress. There are a thousand other things you can be building in parallel while you are waiting for the glue to set on your rib in the rib jig. I would glue one together every day before going to work, then take it out, turn it over and finish gluing the other side when I got home that night. Rick On 11/30/06, Gene Hubbard wrote: > > Don't get spooked by the ribs. Build a jig, and every day, build a new > rib. In a month, you'll be done. Everyone will complement you on your > workmanship. > > Gene > > Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, > amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes: > > Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet > material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms > of strength and weight? > > Plywood wing ribs are *much* heavier, and not all that much easier to > build. > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > * > > * > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing back to get your CG right? Thanks Rick On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: > > hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> > > Just to compare. > > My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece > wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. > No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), > center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons > > That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a > similar setup. > > Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. > > > Hans > > NX15KV > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Rick, Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest. The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back). It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy. Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back) may be this winter. FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the plans and weight should not be a problem. Hans. "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... 12/01/2006 08:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing back to get your CG right? Thanks Rick On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Just to compare. My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a similar setup. Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing ribs
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Not really spooked by the ribs, I was more considering the idea of weight and strength. From what I have read so far in my research is that the wing in over built. I was wondering if you could reduce the weight of the wing and maintain the same or similar strength with less wood from a thinner piece of plywood and having no glue joints to present potential sources of failure. The concept would be to use a router and saw to fashion the rib out of maybe 1/8 plywood if possible but leaving a bit more wood in the rib support cross member and joint areas at the stress points. With the idea of reducing the weight of the wings and possibly eliminating the need for gussets at the glue joints . While maintaining the utmost safety in the entire wing structure. >From what I have read it seems that there are not a lot of ways to increase the usable load so I was more considering the idea of weight reduction without sacrificing integrity or safety. Plus it makes for a great mental exercise to look at alternatives in construction materials and methods! John -----Original Message----- From: at7000ft(at)gmail.com Sent: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 9:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing ribs And even if it takes two months to finish the ribs it really isn't slowing down progress. There are a thousand other things you can be building in parallel while you are waiting for the glue to set on your rib in the rib jig. I would glue one together every day before going to work, then take it out, turn it over and finish gluing the other side when I got home that night. Rick On 11/30/06, Gene Hubbard wrote: Don't get spooked by the ribs. Build a jig, and every day, build a new rib. In a month, you'll be done. Everyone will complement you on your workmanship. Gene Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/30/2006 1:58:44 PM Central Standard Time, amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes: Has anyone attempted to use a plywood wing rib, cut from plywood sheet material rather than a built up rib, if so what were the results in terms of strength and weight? Plywood wing ribs are much heavier, and not all that much easier to build. Chuck G. NX770CG www.aeroelectric.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuse questions...
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I remember seeing a biwing plane covered in clear mylar to save weight.See pic.One thing about this idea,you would be able to see anything that was broke inside.The problem with it is that mylar is really UV sensitive and after one season in the sun she would be brittle and easy to break. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: December 1, 2006 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... Rick, Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest. The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back). It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy. Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back) may be this winter. FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the plans and weight should not be a problem. Hans. "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... 12/01/2006 08:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing back to get your CG right? Thanks Rick On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Just to compare. My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a similar setup. Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
One other question Hans, is your Corvair engine mount built to the plans, as far as engine distance forward of the firewall? Rick On 12/1/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: > > hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> > > Rick, > > Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest. > > The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back). > It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy. > Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back) > may be this winter. > > FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the > plans and weight should not be a problem. > > Hans. > > > "Rick Holland" > om> To > Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > owner-pietenpol-l cc > ist-server@matron > ics.com Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse > questions... > 12/01/2006 08:52 > AM > > > Please respond to > pietenpol-list@ma > tronics.com > > > This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at > something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just > recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing > back to get your CG right? > > Thanks > > Rick > > On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: > hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> > > Just to compare. > > My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece > wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. > No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), > center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons > > That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a > similar setup. > > Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Light weight Pietenpol
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds... Oh yeah, it's half-scale. Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you would have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a rudder bar, fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real museum piece. ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work. http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930 S_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Rick, Yes, I build the Pietenpol Corvair motor mount as per drawings. But did slide the tabs that bolt to the engine 1/2" forward, so the engine actually sits 1/2 more forward than the plans call for. With the modern firewall requirements (stainless + fibrefrax on top of the ply wood ) the oil filter will not clear the Stainless. Alternatively, You could make a indentation of 1/2" in to the firewall, a lot of work. Or use longer motor mount fittings the ones that bolt on the wood at the forward fuselage (to late for me) Or use a remote Filter mount. (I did not like this) Additionally I use the polyurethane vibration mounts that WW suggests. This will raise the engine some what from what the plans call for (3/4") So I do have some additional deviation from the plans, but none of them add weight or reduce strength of the original design. Hans "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... 12/01/2006 11:49 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com One other question Hans, is your Corvair engine mount built to the plans, as far as engine distance forward of the firewall? Rick On 12/1/06, Hans Vander Voort wrote: hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Rick, Yes, the John Deere that WW and Mark Langford suggest. The wing is moved back about 2" (cabanes leaning back). It (flies) (fly's) is flying slightly nose heavy. Probably should move the wing forward slightly 1/2" (1 1/2" leaning back) may be this winter. FYI, I did not take extreme measure to build light, simply build to the plans and weight should not be a problem. Hans. "Rick Holland" < at7000ft(at)gmail.c om> To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... 12/01/2006 08:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com This gives me new hope that I can build my long fuselage Corvair at something under 700 lbs. Do you also have an altenator Hans? Or just recharge your battery in the hanger? Also, did you have to move your wing back to get your CG right? Thanks Rick On 11/29/06, Hans Vander Voort < hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> wrote: hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Just to compare. My Pietenpol, long fuse with a Corvair, split landing gear, three piece wing and poly fiber covering weights empty at 680 Lbs. No deviations from the plans other than longer Cabane struts (2 inch), center section cut out (no flop) and piano hinge ailerons That makes it only 4 Lbs heavier than Roman's steel tube fuselage with a similar setup. Oh....and I have an electric starter and battery on board. -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Light weight Pietenpol
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Bill, I would be tempted to fly it! Jack Textor Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds... Oh yeah, it's half-scale. Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you would have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a rudder bar, fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real museum piece. ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work. http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930 S_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Light weight Pietenpol
Date: Dec 01, 2006
ohhhh my! I must own it! DJ Vegh - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light weight Pietenpol Bill, I would be tempted to fly it! Jack Textor Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds... Oh yeah, it's half-scale. Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you would have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a rudder bar, fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real museum piece. ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work. http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930S _W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem Bill C www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet enpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marshall Lumsden" <mlumsden(at)charter.net>
Subject: meeting owners
Date: Dec 01, 2006
My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol owners in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance writer who has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine. I've suggested an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead with it. I'm also interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers or fly-ins anywhere in the country in the next six months. My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa and Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a time when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.") My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where a neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He taught himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto a two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a cultivator seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a remarkable achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his Pietenpol for good, but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat farm landscape in a store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for the rest of his long life. The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents. I look forward to hearing from you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: carb heat/steel wool/road landing
Intersting post. The new issue of "Aviation Safety" cover story is about landing on roads and highways in an emergency. I was expecting to find at least a paragraph telling of the FAA/DOT and whoever else would get excited and the evils of doing this, but nothing of that sort was mentioned in the article. How to do it, when not to do it, case stories, etc, but not a word about regulatory issues related to this. There's lots of info on how to do it safely, etc but not even a hint of "last resort" attitude. Anyone know more that this magazine article failed to offer? Seemed odd to me that a mag of this nature would NOT include legal troubles caused by choosing road over an adjacent field, if there are in fact, any issues. Perhaps the evils of regulatory troubles caused by an emergency landing on a road are urban legends? I have no idea, personally I always thought you'd be in heap big trouble, but not a mention here! Tim in Bovey == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Light weight Pietenpol
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
I won't bdb on then DJ, I crashed to many RC's Jack Textor ohhhh my! I must own it! DJ Vegh - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor <mailto:jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:14 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Light weight Pietenpol Bill, I would be tempted to fly it! Jack Textor Right now, on ebay, there's a Pietenpol for sale - built to plans from Don Pietenpol, fully constructed, minus engine, not covered, with wire wheels, and straight axle gear. The weight is approximately 65 pounds... Oh yeah, it's half-scale. Check it out, the workmanship is unbelievable. From the photos you would have a hard time to tell that it wasn't full size. There's a rudder bar, fuel tank, turnbuckles, built-up ribs with gussets... a real museum piece. ebay item # 130054239356 if this link doesn't work. http://cgi.ebay.com/PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Airplane-Flying-Model-1930 S_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem Bill C www.aeroelectric.com www.kitlog.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c h ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr o nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: carb heat/steel wool/road landing
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Tim, In some areas in the west and very often in Alaska, road landings are a way of life. I know several pilots that keep their plane at home and use the road for an airstrip every time they fly. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: carb heat/steel wool/road landing > > > Intersting post. > The new issue of "Aviation Safety" cover story is about landing on > roads and highways in an emergency. I was expecting to find at least a > paragraph telling of the FAA/DOT and whoever else would get excited and > the evils of doing this, but nothing of that sort was mentioned in the > article. How to do it, when not to do it, case stories, etc, but not a > word about regulatory issues related to this. There's lots of info on > how to do it safely, etc but not even a hint of "last resort" attitude. > Anyone know more that this magazine article failed to offer? Seemed > odd to me that a mag of this nature would NOT include legal troubles > caused by choosing road over an adjacent field, if there are in fact, > any issues. Perhaps the evils of regulatory troubles caused by an > emergency landing on a road are urban legends? I have no idea, > personally I always thought you'd be in heap big trouble, but not a > mention here! > > Tim in Bovey > > == > You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! > == > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: road landing
Date: Dec 01, 2006
I'm not sure about other states, but I'll bet you a doughnut that if you land an airplane on a California highway, they will find a way to tax or fine you. After all, you didn't pay road use taxes on the fuel in that tank (unless you're running autogas), and you sure didn't pay any excise tax on those tires to help pay for the highways. Everything seems to be illegal in CA except the things that should be ;o) I wondered the same thing about operating a floatplane off of public waters... lakes, impoundments, even rivers. I guess people do it but there must be some prohibition about operating something other than a registered watercraft on public waters. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: road landing
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Actually, seaplane operations vary greatly by state. In North Carolina, for instance, there are very few places where you can legally land a seaplane. I live between two good sized lakes, Jordan Lake (14,000 acres) and Harris Lake (4,400 acres). Jordan is owned and operated by the US Army Corps of Engineers and seaplane operations are forbidden. Harris is owned by Progress Energy and seaplanes are allowed to operate if they have written permission from Progress Energy. The Seaplane Pilots Association published a Water Landing Directory with regulations listed by state. I'll have to look at mine to see if seaplane operations are allowed in California. I've already verified that when I retire and move to Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia, sepalnes are welcomed there. I wonder how a Pietenpol on floats would do? Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: road landing --> I'm not sure about other states, but I'll bet you a doughnut that if you land an airplane on a California highway, they will find a way to tax or fine you. After all, you didn't pay road use taxes on the fuel in that tank (unless you're running autogas), and you sure didn't pay any excise tax on those tires to help pay for the highways. Everything seems to be illegal in CA except the things that should be ;o) I wondered the same thing about operating a floatplane off of public waters... lakes, impoundments, even rivers. I guess people do it but there must be some prohibition about operating something other than a registered watercraft on public waters. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: meeting owners
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Hello Marshall, I am living in Garden Grove, but building in Santa Maria. All I have here are my wing ribs, my fuselage is at the Santa Maria Airport. Where are you located? Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall Lumsden Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol owners in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance writer who has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine. I've suggested an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead with it. I'm also interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers or fly-ins anywhere in the country in the next six months. My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa and Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a time when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.") My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where a neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He taught himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto a two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a cultivator seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a remarkable achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his Pietenpol for good, but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat farm landscape in a store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for the rest of his long life. The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents. I look forward to hearing from you. <http://www.buildersbooks.com> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marshall Lumsden" <mlumsden(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: meeting owners
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Hi Dave: I'm in Malibu. Sometime before long I'd like to talk to you about your involvement with Pietenpols. My phone number is 310-457-7511. Why are you building in Santa Maria, by the way? ML ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Abramson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners Hello Marshall, I am living in Garden Grove, but building in Santa Maria. All I have here are my wing ribs, my fuselage is at the Santa Maria Airport. Where are you located? Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall Lumsden Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:44 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol owners in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance writer who has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine. I've suggested an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead with it. I'm also interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers or fly-ins anywhere in the country in the next six months. My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa and Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a time when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.") My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where a neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He taught himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto a two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a cultivator seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a remarkable achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his Pietenpol for good, but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat farm landscape in a store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for the rest of his long life. The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents. I look forward to hearing from you. -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: road landing
Oscar, Here in NJ water landing is a no-no. Think a few places at the shore in the tidal waters it's legal. We even have Greenwood lake that's half in NJ and half in NY. You can only taxi on the NJ side, and take off and land on the NY side permissable walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: road landing > > > I'm not sure about other states, but I'll bet you a doughnut that if you > land an airplane on a California highway, they will find a way to tax or > fine you. After all, you didn't pay road use taxes on the fuel in that > tank (unless you're running autogas), and you sure didn't pay any excise > tax on those tires to help pay for the highways. Everything seems to be > illegal in CA except the things that should be ;o) > > I wondered the same thing about operating a floatplane off of public > waters... lakes, impoundments, even rivers. I guess people do it but > there must be some prohibition about operating something other than a > registered watercraft on public waters. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Fixing up the home? Live Search can help > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: meeting owners
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Hey Marshall, My Parents Live up in Santa Maria, and my father has a Cessna 150 there. Hanger rent was dirt cheap a few years ago so I got a hanger for myself. Was planning to move up there a couple years ago but have not yet. I will give you a call in the next few days! Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall Lumsden Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners Hi Dave: I'm in Malibu. Sometime before long I'd like to talk to you about your involvement with Pietenpols. My phone number is 310-457-7511. Why are you building in Santa Maria, by the way? ML ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Abramson <mailto:davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners Hello Marshall, I am living in Garden Grove, but building in Santa Maria. All I have here are my wing ribs, my fuselage is at the Santa Maria Airport. Where are you located? Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marshall Lumsden Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: meeting owners My name is Marshall Lumsden and I'd like to meet with some Pietenpol owners in the Southern California area where I live. I am a freelance writer who has done some articles for Smithsonian Air & Space magazine. I've suggested an article on the Pietenpol and they'd like to move ahead with it. I'm also interested in hearing about any planned get-togethers or fly-ins anywhere in the country in the next six months. My own background includes time as a WWII pilot (P-40s in N. Africa and Italy and time in P-39s and P--47s among other antiques. That was a time when "tail draggers" were known as "conventional landing gear.") My interest is rooted in my early days on the farm in Michigan where a neighbor built a Pietenpol from scratch from mail-order plans. He taught himself to fly it by first building the wings and empennage onto a two-dimensional truss to make a glider, adding controls and a cultivator seat, and getting a friend to tow him aloft. Truly a remarkable achievement, I think you'll agree. WWII grounded his Pietenpol for good, but he continued to fly over central Michigan's flat farm landscape in a store-bought Funk -- without a pilots license -- for the rest of his long life. The vitality of the Pietenpol community today shows what an amazing slice of American aviation history this aircraft represents. I look forward to hearing from you. -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com <http://www.kitlog.com> * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> List Contribution Web Site --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.buildersbooks.com> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Subject: Re: Piet. cables
Pieters, I wonder what cables you guys are using. 1/8th or 3/32 and do you use stainless or the regular stuff. I know that there are different nicro for each. Also which wire design is best like 7 x7 or something different. Thanks, Ken in cool Iowa with some snow ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Piet. cables
Date: Dec 01, 2006
Ken You will find differing opinions on this, as everything. I used 3/32" galvanized on drag and anti drag in wing. 1/8" x 7/19galvanized on controll cables, especially ones that have to make turns thru pulleys. Stainless 1/8" on things that show in obvious places. Most importantly, 1/19x 1/8" on cross brace cables for fixed landing gear. Initially, I used 7x19 and had a cable failure. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet. cables Pieters, I wonder what cables you guys are using. 1/8th or 3/32 and do you use stainless or the regular stuff. I know that there are different nicro for each. Also which wire design is best like 7 x7 or something different. Thanks, Ken in cool Iowa with some snow ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T-88 vs. resorcinol
Maybe thats the one... There were some brown tablets that were probably boiled in water, I was not alowed to ge to close at that age, I remember as a very little boy probably 5, looking at Grampas shop... Was bought by the weight, Went shoping with him several times. That old store still sells some strange old products we now dont know what are for...Hope I had keept his notes. My point is that probably most of the modern glues will be more resistant to moisture and time, that the wood they are bonding together, if not properly protected... But in any case, the peace of mind of the pilot is first, Go for the better glue (and wood) you can aford and find... Saludos Gary Gower Dale Johnson wrote: Gary Are you sure it was caseine glue and not hide glue. Most furniture used hide glue and still do. Put it in a heat pot and spread it on. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Gower To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: 11/29/2006 3:18:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 vs. resorcinol Just a short comment, Lets remember that some of the old airplanes (some still flying) were glued with pre resorcinol ot T-88 glues, like Caseine glue and few are still flying or in museums in perfect shape. I have a few family furniture bonded with Caseine Glue that is in better shape that the newer with modern glues... Barnishing and mantainance is very important will prevent any wood around the joint to fail for moisture, the glue will be perfect but the wood around could fail... like an old barn roof. Good inspection every year to all wood, wood joints and ply is important for a sound (wood) airplane. Dont forget proper installed dain holes and some venting. Saludos Gary Gower Good grief, Jack-! Are you planning to fly your Piet through 24 hours of boiling water? Icarus will certainly plummet! This is one discussion that will never end, as long as there are taverns, hangars, and pilots. Less filling or more taste? T-88 or resorcinol? I'll settle for T-88, having used it and found that its qualities are very endearing... workable in temps down into the 50s, not fussy about proportioning, nice gap filling, dries clear, readily available, quick curing, will bond dissimilar materials, and well documented in aviation use for a long time. But, I do not plan to fly through boiling water, ever ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________ _________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol in Sport Pilot magazine
Date: Dec 02, 2006
Hans, Great picture of your Piet in EAA Sport Pilot & Light Sport Aircraft. Like the paint scheme, especially the dark strip down the side, looks like a faux exhaust stain. Skip csfog(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: international pietenpol association
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2006
hello my name is Ben Taylor and i wanted to let you all know that my grandfather has lit a fire under my butt to get this pietenpol thing going again for those of you who don't know what this is it is a newsletter that we the antique airplane association put out on an irregular basis more on this later it is a strictly printed newsletter usually 16 pages full of pietenpol stuff from member projects to tech tips and stories of piet travels we just got done with one a couple of months ago and if anyone is interested in joining i will send you a sample copy all you got to do is email me your address and it will be on your door step within a week or so now back to the irregular part this magazine is put together with articles and stories written for the most part by the membership we have three piets here on antique airfield my grandfathers model A aircamper wich is an original kit put out by bernard in the thirties wich i am restoring we have a model A powered scout which belongs to the airpower museum and the museum also just aquired another aircamper this fall which i believe is a grega model with a continental and a steel tube fuselage now down to the important stuff if you just can't wait to get your membership started here are all the details you could ever want send 18.00 dollars US for three issues P.O. box 127 Blakesburg, IA 52536 we also have copies of our back issues which go back to the late seventies for sale for all of them it is 37.00 dollars if you would like a list of these let me know you can reach me at work @641-938-2773 or just drop me a note to the above address i want to let everyone know that this isn't a yearly membership the eighteen dollars is for three issues and we only put out a newsletter when we have enough material to do so so if you would like to contribute please do thanks ben taylor -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78649#78649 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fly-ins
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2006
oscar hello i just wanted to let you know that we are planning a grassroots style homebuilt flyin to take up the slack for the loss of the saa's flyin in urbana i spoke with my grandfather about it and he thought it was a good idea he and paul poberesny are long time friends and paul is excited about having a flying of that realm here on antique airfield we are not sure of the dates as of yet but we are shooting for june or july i believe if you have never heard of us we have an all grass private airport here in southeast iowa that is perfect for this type of flyin as we have our national antique airplane assoc. flyin here labor day weekend every year and it just keeps growing when i know all the details i will inform everyone as i am sure paul and others will also ben -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78650#78650 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rotec piet
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2006
dick love the pic i would love to put a story about your project in our next news letter send me your address and i wiill send you a copy of our latest newsletter unless you are already a member of the international pietenpol association if so please send me some pics and the rundown on your project hope to here from you soon ben taylor -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78652#78652 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Regrets?
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2006
the gentleman in brodhead that you are refering to is dennis hall he also built a very nice aircamper ben taylor -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78654#78654 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Pietenpol in Sport Pilot magazine
Thanks Skip, I have gotten a lot of compliments on the paint scheme. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2006
Subject: Re: Pietenpol in Sport Pilot magazine
Hans, I thought it looked great when I saw it! John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2006
Subject: Re: international pietenpol association
In a message dated 12/2/2006 11:24:20 AM Central Standard Time, benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com writes: hello my name is Ben Taylor Hi Ben !! Remember me ? Red & Silver Pietenpol, white stripes down the side, star burst paint scheme on top of the wing, Continental A65 engine. I stayed in my tent there next to the hangers in '05 on my way to Brodhead. That was a really great stopover on my trip that year. I have a couple of pictures on my web site http://nx770cg.com/ , at the bottom of the page marked Tour '04. Some of the guys there at the field took me to the restaurant in town, came back and drank some beers & swapped some lies, there on the picnic tables under a beautiful star lit night. Next day I got a Grand Tour of the museum, and then you showed me all your Pietenpol stuff. Remember...you were talking of doing a 'Lap Around America', in your Piet ? Count me in on that one !! I've been wanting to do that flight for several years now, ever since my little 3100 mile cross country flight in '04. Wouldn't that be something if we could pull that off ??? Chuck Gantzer NX770CG Wichita, KS p.s. I'll be joining up with the 'International Pietenpol Association'. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2006
From: "Richard R. Ryburn" <ric(at)srclink.net>
Subject: Re: international pietenpol association
Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Hey, Ben! Ric Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/2/2006 11:24:20 AM Central Standard Time, > benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com writes: > > hello my name is Ben Taylor > > Hi Ben !! > Remember me ? Red & Silver Pietenpol, white stripes down the side, > star burst paint scheme on top of the wing, Continental A65 engine. I > stayed in my tent there next to the hangers in '05 on my way to > Brodhead. That was a really great stopover on my trip that year. I > have a couple of pictures on my web site http://nx770cg.com/ > , at the bottom of the page marked Tour '04. Some of the guys there > at the field took me to the restaurant in town, came back and drank some > beers & swapped some lies, there on the picnic tables under a beautiful > star lit night. Next day I got a Grand Tour of the museum, and then you > showed me all your Pietenpol stuff. Remember...you were talking of > doing a 'Lap Around America', in your Piet ? Count me in on that one > !! I've been wanting to do that flight for several years now, ever > since my little 3100 mile cross country flight in '04. Wouldn't that be > something if we could pull that off ??? > > Chuck Gantzer > NX770CG > Wichita, KS > p.s. I'll be joining up with the 'International Pietenpol Association'. > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2006
Subject: America Tour
In a message dated 12/2/2006 11:31:20 PM Central Standard Time, ric(at)srclink.net writes: Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization. Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight. Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore, most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Leather behind the cockpit
Mike, Dad had to do something similar. I believe he DID use tapes there but it still got a "ratty" looking edge at the top of the seat back from getting in and out. He used a strip of aluminum and wrapped it with leather and laced it to look like the cockpit coaming and held it on with a couple sheet metal screws, looks OK. --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: America Tour
Date: Dec 03, 2006
Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization. Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight. Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore, most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: international pietenpol association
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2006
chuck it is great to here from you i have been diligently working my tail off trying to get grandads piet back in flying condition i got the wing completely covered and ready to start taping but the weather here kinda went to pot and i have been doing some major repair to an aeronca tc that had a misshap in northern mo that alongside a landing gear rebuild on a cherokee and numerous other things put the wing on the back burner as to the big trip i am still planning on doing it it is just when this next year doesn't look to promising but 08 is going to be the year i should have all the bugs worked out of the model a and since it appears that there are more than a few of us that want to do it i think we should plan an oddyse of piets to go and yes raising a little money for a reputable charity would be a great idea we should though start planning now it will help in the long run later ben -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78838#78838 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: America Tour
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2006
greg alot of how you go depends on where you go when i do my transcontinental tour in my grandads piet i am going to pretty much follow the interstate that goes from souix falls all the way to seattlle and according to my dad he has flown that route in a c3b stearman for a friend of his 7000 to 7500 msl is all the higher you need to go and you have good roads all the way to follow but i do know that there is a pass south of that route that you only have to go to about 6500 msl to get through but you got to remember in that part of the world density alt. is the killer ben -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78839#78839 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: twin piet
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2006
hey everyone my grandad was going through some pics he has yesturday and ran across a picture of n12043 it is a piet that was built with two cont. 65's mounted right together one above the other and one is direct drive and the other is belt driven as far as i can tell the wings are clipped for weight i would assume and it has two props mounted 90 degrees to eachother we want to do a story on it for the news letter but i need some more info the faa website still has it regitered kinda it iw reported as sold so i am not sure of its status if any of you have info. let me know please any help on this one would be appreciated i will try and attach a picture if i can to help you get an idea of what i am talking about ben -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78847#78847 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: twin piet
Please post a picture Ben, with all the mods people make to Pietenpols adding a second engine is something I never would have imagined anyone would do. Do you know if it ever flew? Rick On 12/3/06, antique airplane assoc. wrote: > > benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com> > > hey everyone > > my grandad was going through some pics he has yesturday and ran across a > picture of n12043 it is a piet that was built with two cont. 65's mounted > right together one above the other and one is direct drive and the other is > belt driven as far as i can tell the wings are clipped for weight i would > assume and it has two props mounted 90 degrees to eachother we want to do a > story on it for the news letter but i need some more info the faa website > still has it regitered kinda it iw reported as sold so i am not sure of its > status if any of you have info. let me know please any help on this one > would be appreciated i will try and attach a picture if i can to help you > get an idea of what i am talking about > > ben > > -------- > ben taylor > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78847#78847 > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Twin Pietenpol
Hello , I have seen pictures of the twin piet. I bought a bunch of random old aviation magizines from the late 60's and early 70's and found a photo of the twin. I can't remember which mag it was or what year or month. It had a small artical named, "Bernie, Bernie, Bernie, look what people are doing to your airplane". It had one piet with a chevy vega engine, one with a buick (i think) and the twin 65 cont. The twin had counter rotating props if I remember correctly, (but I am not positive). One engine mounted above the other and a belt driving the front prop drive unit. It may have had a planitary gear drive for prop to turn other direction. If I remember I will get the magizine back from dad and scan the article and post it. It definitly got my attention with 1 prop in front of the other. Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Internatinal Piet Assn.
Hello Group, I was wondering where I saw Blakesburg Iowa on a patch....and then I looked through some patches an older fellow gave me years ago. He gave me 2 or 3 Buckeye Piet Assn. patches that were 4-5 in round and had a orange piet on them. He also gave me a Internatinal Piet Assn patch that was about 3 in by 6 in, and it was light blue and had a blue and yellow piet on it. At the bottom of the patch it said Blakesburg Iowa. The man who gave me the patches was named John Zurick. He was from central Ohio and had started a piet but then one day decided to cut it up, and he burnned it. Don't ask, I don't know why, that is just the story I heard. He was definitly a colorful character, but has since passed on. In fact I hadn't thought of him untill I saw the patches again he gave me years ago. Does any one know what ever happened to the Buckeye Pietenpol Assn? Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Internatinal Piet Assn.
In a message dated 12/3/2006 5:07:38 PM Central Standard Time, aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com writes: Does any one know what ever happened to the Buckeye Pietenpol Assn? Shad, It's now the 'Brodhead Pietenpol Association'. Doc Mosher is the editor of the quartly news letter, printed by The Independent-Register, in Brodhead WI. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: bending Lexan
Date: Dec 03, 2006
My thanks to all for the good info on bending Lexan. I have some scraps I'll try the different methods on and see what works best for me. Again, thanks Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: America Tour
Date: Dec 03, 2006
Greg I have done a fair amount of mountain flying and other than basic VFR minimums the safe answer is to make sure it won't possibly box you in with no way out. More of a threat are the mountain winds which can be horrible. One place in particular that was brought up on the talk of west coast trip today was following I-90 west of Billings. That stretch going to Bozeman can be very dangerous if you get to close to the Absoraka Range. To anyone really thinking of that kind of trip, going thru Wyoming, following I-80 would be much easier. Remember the advice someone on the list had a year or so ago. "When flying low lever thru Mont and Idaho, fly along the roads, so they will be able to find your body." Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization. Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight. Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore, most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
Date: Dec 03, 2006
I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the sheet metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested in the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be the proper guage of stainless for the firewall? -Scott Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glich7(at)juno.com" <glich7(at)juno.com>
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: ohio gathering
Hi Group, I realize that this topic is nearly forgotten by now, but I've been really busy, and could only read the list (finals this week). Just wanted to add my two cents: The Ohio Pietenpol (& Corvair? &More?) gathering sounds like my kind of fly-in. I'll be there one way or another (no piet). It would be worth it to rent a spam can but I'd probably drive. Hope we get a better turnout than that one that was in northeastern ohio, and some good weather. Oh yeah, Hi and Welcome to that new Tim that signed on a few days ago..I think we have at least 3 now. Tim Hansen in Orient, OH ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: sport aviation
Date: Dec 03, 2006
I had shut down the computer and gone up to read my new Sport Aviation. First, there is nice blurb by Oscar Zuniga. Nice one Oscar. Second, there is a good article on mountain flying, which is in tonights discussion. Lastly, there is a great article on flame testing on firewalls. Also, very timely. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: America Tour
Date: Dec 03, 2006
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
That seems a bit extreme. I live and fly in Utah and Colorado and Idaho. I started my flying lessons as a 15 year old in Broomfield Colorado at 5000MSL. As you know I fly a 65hp cont powered piet all summer long, and have made trips to Idaho and even Brodhead. I flew the I-80 corridor. Density altitudes are over 10K' in the early mornings near Rock Springs and Rawlins WY. I have fueled up in Rawlins a couple of times. The runway is uphill, and it is a slow climb out. That is the hard part. I climbed upto about 10,500' to have a few thousand feet between me and the ground, and to cut corners going around the highest peaks. This fall I set a new absolute altitude record for my piet. 12,200' with the assistance of ridge lift. It was actually un-nerving to me as I flew away from the mountain over the valley which is 4500'. There was no sensation of motion, just the ground over a mile below as I looked over the side. If you haven't done any mountain flying, take a course, and do some reading up. It can be done safely, but you have to always leave yourself an out. For me? No box canyons, be careful of lee side winds, stay out of weather, supplemental O2, beware high density altitudes, add survival gear, daylight hours only, stay light, be willing to turn around. Oh, and bring a camera! Steve E ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Greg I have done a fair amount of mountain flying and other than basic VFR minimums the safe answer is to make sure it won't possibly box you in with no way out. More of a threat are the mountain winds which can be horrible. One place in particular that was brought up on the talk of west coast trip today was following I-90 west of Billings. That stretch going to Bozeman can be very dangerous if you get to close to the Absoraka Range. To anyone really thinking of that kind of trip, going thru Wyoming, following I-80 would be much easier. Remember the advice someone on the list had a year or so ago. "When flying low lever thru Mont and Idaho, fly along the roads, so they will be able to find your body." Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal <mailto:gcardinal(at)comcast.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization. Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight. Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore, most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long. Chuck G. NX770CG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c h ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr o nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: America Tour
You want this! http://www.mountainflying.com/bible1.htm Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 8:59 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: America Tour That seems a bit extreme. I live and fly in Utah and Colorado and Idaho. I started my flying lessons as a 15 year old in Broomfield Colorado at 5000MSL. As you know I fly a 65hp cont powered piet all summer long, and have made trips to Idaho and even Brodhead. I flew the I-80 corridor. Density altitudes are over 10K' in the early mornings near Rock Springs and Rawlins WY. I have fueled up in Rawlins a couple of times. The runway is uphill, and it is a slow climb out. That is the hard part. I climbed upto about 10,500' to have a few thousand feet between me and the ground, and to cut corners going around the highest peaks. This fall I set a new absolute altitude record for my piet. 12,200' with the assistance of ridge lift. It was actually un-nerving to me as I flew away from the mountain over the valley which is 4500'. There was no sensation of motion, just the ground over a mile below as I looked over the side. If you haven't done any mountain flying, take a course, and do some reading up. It can be done safely, but you have to always leave yourself an out. For me? No box canyons, be careful of lee side winds, stay out of weather, supplemental O2, beware high density altitudes, add survival gear, daylight hours only, stay light, be willing to turn around. Oh, and bring a camera! Steve E ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:10 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Greg I have done a fair amount of mountain flying and other than basic VFR minimums the safe answer is to make sure it won't possibly box you in with no way out. More of a threat are the mountain winds which can be horrible. One place in particular that was brought up on the talk of west coast trip today was following I-90 west of Billings. That stretch going to Bozeman can be very dangerous if you get to close to the Absoraka Range. To anyone really thinking of that kind of trip, going thru Wyoming, following I-80 would be much easier. Remember the advice someone on the list had a year or so ago. "When flying low lever thru Mont and Idaho, fly along the roads, so they will be able to find your body." Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: America Tour Hmmm... maybe there's a trend started here! Ben and I have already talked about it.... Let's put a squadron together! Like most folks, my biggest hurdle is getting time off work. A couple of weeks is not much problem, but what I'm talking about, is an actual lap around America, or at least touching each Ocean. Those Big Bumps out west (Rocky Mountains) would be another major hurdle to get over, or around. Maybe consider doing it for some Charity Organization. Naturally, Brodhead would have to be in the flight plan. I'm sure we could get some planes to join up for various segments of the flight. Most Pietenpols can carry a couple of hours of fuel onboard, therefore, most legs of the flight would have to be about 2 hrs long. Chuck G. NX770CG href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com" >www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co mhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet enpol-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/3/2006 4:36 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: twin piet
The airplane Ben is talking about is the Pietenpol "Safety Twin" built by Joe Halsmer. I believe he lived in Illinois or Indiana. It had two 65 Continentals...one direct drive prop, and one belt drive prop. He would hand prop the direct drive engine, and then use the belts to start the belt drive engine, I believe. I think that after Joe passed away, his son converted the airplane back to single engine and sold it. The number, N-12043, is listed as "Sale Reported" in Kenosha WI. Forrest Lovley Jordan MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: twin piet
Hi Forrest, Are you still interested in making the brass radiators that were talked about several months ago? If you are, I for one would still be on the list to buy one. Please advise. Thanks. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: twin piet
Dan...You are on the list...and I just ordered the cores. After they get here, I'll get at building the radiators. Forrest Lovley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: twin piet
Thanks Forrest, Let me know when you need some money. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joseph Czaplicki" <fishin3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Twin Piet
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Hi All The Twin Piet lives ! But now it sports a single A65. She's hangered at ENW. She is group owned by several members of EAA Chapter 217 in Kenosha, WI. Information about her can be gotten from Tom Lubben at www.lub_sur(at)sbcglobal.net Picture of her in present configuration can be seen at EAA chapter 217 web site, www.eaa217.com Hope this helps. by the way, the Coupe site was mine. JoeC in cold and white NE Illinois +9 deg and 12 " of the white stuff Joseph Czaplicki fishin3(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ohio gathering
Hello, Where are you located in Orient? Are you located close to Jim and Dondie Miller's airport, Miller Time? I am just up the road in Centerburg OH, Maybe I will make a little trip that way when the spring gets here. Are you building a piet? Shad --------------------------------- Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: bending Lexan
Making a form out of aluminum and heating in the kitchen stove works. Just be prepared to sleep on the couch if you get it too hot, IT STINKS UP THE WHOLE HOUSE! But when done properly (as Tony Bingalis explains in his books), It produces a nice tension free windscreen that you don't have to force around the mounts. Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Brass radiator
Forrest, Is there any chance of getting on your "radiator list" for this run? If not, it is OK. I think Dan said he would give me his. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Brass radiator
Ron, NOT! VERY FUNNY!! I have been "on the list" for a long time! I will be thinking of you when I am installing mine!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!!
Date: Dec 04, 2006
I'm desparatley in need of a set of tail leafs for a Tcraft BC12D. New, used, don't really care as long as they are airworthy. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BYD(at)att.net
Subject: NW mountain flying
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Greg C. asks, Does anybody know the lowest service ceiling an aircraft needs to safely get through the mountains? This will bring some flame. Greg a looong time ago an old timer made the statement that you can fly coast to coast with out flying higher than 3,500 feet. Although this is technically correct, it isnt physically possible or at least advisable. He sat me down and showed me that Stampede Pass here in the Cascades is just at 3,500 feet, and then went on to Mullen Pass in the Rockies I think and I forget the pass in the East, but technically it is possible. Both Dick N. and Steve E. have the key points. Although I prefer the northern I-90 route, anytime in the mountains watch flying near ridges (wind) and project your path as to always have a way out imagine doing a 180 in the space ahead and avoid a New York canyon incident. You wont need oxygen, but you will want to fly early mornings before temps and winds come up. Plan ahead, be flexible, and above all please be safe. Its like anything, theres risk involved, but from that theres reward. Ben somewhere I have the picture of the stacked Continental Pietenpol you mentioned. If memory serves, the props were at about 45-degrees to each other instead of 90 and they were mounted on a common hub of some sort. Also, I have copies of the IPA newsletter back when it was the National Pietenpol Association (1977) put out by Janet Green in Brodhead. I still have a flight jacket with the old rectangular IPA patch but my IPA newsletters stop in 1981. Ill contact you off list to see if I could fill in the gap. Since youre at Blakesburg say hi to Chad and your grandpa for me. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Brass radiator
Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a radiator. Forrest Lovley 20046 Xeon Ave So Jordan MN 55352 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BYD(at)att.net
Subject: NW mountain flying
Date: Dec 04, 2006
My last post got me wondering so I pulled out a sectional and Stampede Pass is 3800 feet so it must have been Snoqualmie Pass at 3004 feet. I just remember thinking youd surprise traffic on the freeway if you really flew the route at the altitude he was suggesting. Sorry for the confusion. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: OT - need TCraft tail leaf springs!!
Date: Dec 04, 2006
nevermind.... all taken care of. thanks!!! DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Twin Piet
Date: Dec 04, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
I am having a great deal of difficulty trying to create a mental image of the twin Pietenpol. I realize that it's Monday, or maybe it's just my limited mental capacity, but it just ain't working. Here are a couple of recent posts: "If memory serves, the props were at about 45-degrees to each other instead of 90 and they were mounted on a common hub of some sort. " and "The twin had counter rotating props if I remember correctly, (but I am not positive). One engine mounted above the other and a belt driving the front prop drive unit. It may have had a planitary gear drive for prop to turn other direction." Anyway, a few have mentioned that they have pictures of this unique plane. Has anyone been able to dig out one of these photos? I think in this case a photo would be worth more than the usual 1000 words. (I would guess at least 1200). It appears that the original configuration was built a bit tail heavy (not likely a problem when you're putting two engines in the nose) but when converted to a more conventional single engine arrangement, the result brings to mind an anteater. "My Grandma, what a long nose you have." Picture of her in present configuration can be seen at EAA chapter 217 web site, www.eaa217.com Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Brass radiator
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Forrest: Gene Rambo here . . I hope you still have me on your list for a radiator on this run!! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: FTLovley(at)aol.com<mailto:FTLovley(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brass radiator Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a radiator. Forrest Lovley 20046 Xeon Ave So Jordan MN 55352 www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: America Tour
From: "dloegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Being from Fargo, ND, I typically do not have to deal with mountian flying - actually the elevation diference from one end of the runway to the other almost 9,000' away is a whopping 2'! That being said, the most memorable flight I have partaken was a trip flying an Ercoupe from Seattle, WA to Hawley, MN. Followed the I-90 corridor all the way back and had a huge high pressure bubble for nearly the entire three day trip. Bozeman pass is the highest point at about 6,500' MSL and passing through at 8,000' there are peaks all around and above you, but the "valley" at that point is plenty wide. Still had to circle over two airports to climb out of the valleys following refueling stops though - and the pictures were worth it! Can't wait to do it in a Piet. -------- Dan Loegering Fargo, ND Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79113#79113 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Brass radiator
Gene WHOOOOO....?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
You can use galvanized steel. (very cheap and proper) Regs say .016 or .018" , not sure, you have to check. Just can't be aluminum. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the sheet metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested in the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be the proper guage of stainless for the firewall? -Scott Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2006
From: Larry Rice <rice(at)iapdatacom.net>
Subject: Pietenpol Twin
It was built by some brothers in Indiana who also did a car/airplane with an airfoil shaped fuselage (wings folded over the top). I met one of them once, years ago, I think the other had passed away. I'll see if I can find some info, I think I have something around. Larry the micro mong guy -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
In a message dated 12/3/2006 8:36:42 PM Central Standard Time, got22b(at)subarubrat.com writes: What is the best option for the fittings? Scott, I'm not sure I understand your question. I will say that the fittings should be built AFTER you have the wood portion built, and then do the fittings to fit the wood. If you build the fittings first, you will likely be doing some of them over. However, I had this conversions stored in the bits & bytes of my computer: (I think Greg Cardinal originally posted it) Gage to decimal for TUBING 11 ga .120 12 ga N/A 13 ga .095 14 ga .083 16 ga .065 17 ga .058 18 ga .049 20 ga .035 22 ga .028 Gage to decimal for SHEET 11 ga .125 12 ga .100 13 ga .090 14 ga .080 16 ga .063 18 ga .050 20 ga .040 22 ga .032 or .025 Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: A bit of Off Piet Topic humor
This is a little bit off the 'Pietenpol' topic, and I think it's been around the internet before, but all you Pro pilots and/or mechanics, will get a kick out of this: Qantas Airlines Just in case you need a laugh: After every flight, Qantas pilots fill out a form, called a"gripe sheet," which tells mechanics about problems with the aircraft. The mechanics correct the problems, document their repairs on the form,and then pilots review the gripe sheets before the next flight. Never Let it be said that ground crews lack a sense of humor. Here are some actual maintenance complaints submitted by Qantas' pilots (marked with a P) and the solutions recorded (marked with an S) by maintenance engineers. By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never,ever, had an accident. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement. S: Almost replaced left inside main tire. P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough. S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft. P: Something loose in cockpit. S: Something tightened in cockpit. P: Dead bugs on windshield. S: Live bugs on back-order. P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent. S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground. P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear. S: Evidence removed. P: DME volume unbelievably loud. S: DME volume set to more believable level. P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick. S: That's what friction locks are for. P: IFF inoperative in OFF mode. S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode. P: Suspected crack in windshield. S: Suspect you're right. P: Number 3 engine missing. S: Engine found on right wing after brief search. P: Aircraft handles funny. (I love this one!) S: Aircraft warned to: straighten up, fly right, and be serious. P: Target radar hums. S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics. P: Mouse in cockpit. S: Cat installed. And the best one for last.................. P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding on something with a hammer. S: Took hammer away from midget. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: NW mountain flying
We went thru this routine about trying to hump a Piete over the rock strewn Rocky Mts. about two years ago. The lowest passes the interstates pass thru in the NW is about 8900', ie. I-80 between UT thru WY to Nebraska is above 7000' most passes and one near Laramie is 8950'. Same goes for lumpy ground around Butte MT. Good luck with that chore. Heck it's cold enough at 3000' here in FL this time of year, my hair is still hurtin' from yesterday's flight. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: BYD(at)att.net Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 16:59:43 +0000 Subject: Pietenpol-List: NW mountain flying My last post got me wondering so I pulled out a sectional and Stampede Pass is 3800 feet so it must have been Snoqualmie Pass at 3004 feet. I just remember thinking youd surprise traffic on the freeway if you really flew the route at the altitude he was suggesting. Sorry for the confusion. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Brass radiator
In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:58:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, FTLovley(at)aol.com writes: Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a radiator. Forrest Lovley 20046 Xeon Ave So Jordan MN 55352 I don't feel worthy, since Dan has been waiting for so long and so patiently. But, what the heck. I'll get over it. Ron Eisaman 81 E. New Rd. Linden, PA 17744 412-894-8707- home 843-333-5185- cell Thanks so very much, Forrest. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: "Richard R. Ryburn" <ric(at)srclink.net>
Subject: WAY off topic
Forrest - I need a new Marginal decal. Ric Ryburn (of the Parsons Ryburns, now in Virginia) Pietsrneat(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:58:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > FTLovley(at)aol.com writes: > > Ron...Send me your address and phone number...I'll include you for a > radiator. > Forrest Lovley > 20046 Xeon Ave So > Jordan MN 55352 > > I don't feel worthy, since Dan has been waiting for so long and so > patiently. But, what the heck. I'll get over it. > Ron Eisaman > 81 E. New Rd. > Linden, PA 17744 > 412-894-8707- home > 843-333-5185- cell > Thanks so very much, Forrest. > Ron > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Marginal topic
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Marginal fringy: at or constituting a border or edge; borderline: of questionable or minimal quality; "borderline grades"; " hardscrabble: of a bare living gained by great labor; "the sharecropper's hardscrabble life"; "a marginal existence" bare(a): just barely adequate or within a lower limit; "a bare majority"; "a marginal victory" producing at a rate that barely covers production costs; "marginal industries"; being close to a lower limit or or of lower class; "marginal abilities" wow........ a lot of this could really applyto Pietenpols. If you give a Marginal decal to him can you give one to me Please please.........please Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday cash! http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/default.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glich7(at)juno.com" <glich7(at)juno.com>
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Subject: ohio gathering
Shad, I'm about 1/2 way between Denton rd. and the Orient post office on Stahl Rd. I'm about a 4 minute drive from Jim & Dondie @ Millertime and I've talked to Jim several times though none recently. He seems to travel a lot. Last time I checked he was a distributor or workshop leader for one of the aircraft fabric companies I think. As for building, as I said in another post, I have been researching for my pietenpol project longer than most people take to build due to time and cash constraints. I'm currently a senior at OSU so funds are that of the average college student. I have been squirreling(?) away bits and pieces for quite awhile, and have attended a corvair college. I also have a pretty impressive clamp collection going. "Why do you NEED ANYMORE CLAMPS, DON'T YOU HAVE ENOUGH?!!...." So, I guess feel free to stop by if your in the neighborhood but don't expect to see much other than my also on hold ground effect glider project. Tim Hansen in Orient "Where Winter Lives" Ohio ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Marginal decal
Date: Dec 05, 2006
I'm not sure about Marginal decals, but 41CC is now wearing some new decals on each side. I installed new Unison/Autolite spark plugs on the engine and got some nifty "Autolite Annie" decals to put on the airplane. Corky, Mikee- you will like these. Tasteful but "period looking" and I think they make a statement. To see what they look like, you can check out the image here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/800x600_A.jpg . Better than marginal. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Marginal decal
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Gee I wouldn't mind her on the side of my aircraft.The colour would look nifty with the dark blue.Is it possible to get them (2 of em)one for each side without actually ordering the plugs.To order those types of plugs would mean changing my whole system over and that could cost thousands counting the modifications to my mags etc.The decals do look mighty good.Do they sell the old style plugs as well? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Subject: Re: WAY off topic
Hey Ric...I need a new Marginal decal also...my supply is running low. Ihad a guy at OSH ask to buy some...guess I'll have to print some more up. How's things with you..?? Forrest...Founder, Marginal Aviation ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Winter does live in Ohio today !
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Tim Hansen is right.....took this photo today at 6:45 am before starting work: ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Autolite Annie
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Oscar-- that is a very nice looking piece of WWII artwork. Corky, did you by chance date that gal while you were in the service or wouldn't Isabelle allow that ? Either way, you probably ended up changing your own spark plugs or watching some gruff crew chief doing while munching on a cheap stogie. I'll bet Corky dated Rosie the Riveter, eh ? Either way-- nice looking decal and not marginal at all. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Winter does live in Ohio today !
Sorry, man. If I loaned you some, I couldn't go flying this weekend. FWIW, eBayers are persistently selling Mac100 coveralls. My plane partner bought one and it definitely keeps you warm! >Tim Hansen is right.....took this photo today at 6:45 am before starting work: > > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Marginal decal
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Harvey, the plugs I bought for the A65 Continental on 41CC are Autolite UREM-40E, a direct cross to the Champion REM-40E specified for all these engines except lower cost. They really are a nice plug. I bought my set on eBay as a set for even less than the cost through Aircraft Spruce, Chief Aircraft, or any of the others. They are not automotive spark plugs... they are aviation spark plugs as Autolite Annie clearly states ;o) I don't know where you can get your decals from except directly from a Unison dealer or maybe their booth at a fly-in. I actually got a matching refrigerator magnet as well as a wall poster (scheduled to go in the new EAA Chapter 35 hangar) with a complete application reference showing which Autolite plug to use in which engine. I also got a decal for their fine-wire plugs with Annie in white pants and a black flying jacket (which you can see at http://www.autoliteannie.com/about/gear.htm and just wait a few seconds to see the logo in the upper right-hand corner change), but didn't think it was as classy as the other, not to mention the fact that I don't fly fine-wire plugs in the A65 and was concerned about truth in advertising ;o) As for Jack's comment about nose art and its absence at Airventure, if it isn't about men appreciating women then somebody isn't being honest. And if it weren't about women trying to appeal to men, then what is all the advertising, plastic surgery, and marketing about anyway? God created that attraction and I defer to His intents and purposes for men and women being different. And I will fly with Autolite spark plugs! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version.Join now. http://ideas.live.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Autolite Annie
To be honest Mike she does resemble Dorothy from Vicksburg but I would need to see MORE of her to positively identify the body Nathan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ohio gathering
Tim, I guess I am not the only "Green horn" on the list. If your a senior at OSU, (GO BUCKS!), I am not too much older than you at 28yrs. If you like, I can fly down your way and give you a ride in the Piet when we get it back in the air, and the weather warms up. That is definitly a motivator, It kicked my butt in gear to get building on my Jungster when I flew the piet the first time. If you have never flown open cockpit it's like flying a Harley through the sky, except the corvair engine is louder. Since you are realitively close, keep in touch I'm sure Dad would not mind letting you borrow things like his rib jig, or other time saving jigs he might still have lying around. As far as money, once you make up your mind that you ARE going to build a piet, (or any other airplane), just build it $100 at a time and do a little every week and it will get done. Dad's was about $12,000 over the course of 6.5 years of weekend only building. That's only an average of $154 per month (less than my bar tabs in my wilder days). So keep collecting clamps, and keep your eyes open for deals on airplane "stuff" that you will need, And even more clamps, then take the plunge and make your first aircraft lumber order, and start building ribs. Go Bucks! Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Winter does live in Ohio today !
In a message dated 12/5/2006 2:46:34 PM Central Standard Time, michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov writes: Tim Hansen is right.....took this photo today at 6:45 am before starting work: Sorry, Mikee...we just used up all our heat to melt off most of the 8" of snow that was dumped out here on Tuesday, in the Land of Oz !! Chuck G. Wichita, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Hi everyone-I'm new on the list and have been enjoying the dialog for some time now. Needless to say i'm an airplane nut and have wanted to build a piet for some time now. I have my ribs made and most wood for the project except spars and longerons. By the way if anyone was planning to buy any spruce fom Paxtons in KC they have cut in half all there 16 18 and 20ft. boardes (per the new owner). I have a temporary table made for the fus. jig and have decided to go with a 65 ( even tho I love the looks and sound of the A much more) I have a short strip and daughters that will be flying the piet so its the Cont. for more power. I thought I understood that the long fus. was to be used with the 65. Is this correct. You won't find me speaking my oppinions a lot but i do enjoy reading all the post and learning from them. Have a great Day. Steve Singleton Hale MO. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
Date: Dec 04, 2006
If, God forbid the worst happens and there is a fire, won't the galvanizing burn off and make a poisonous gas? I remember WW saying something about how bad the fumes were from his teaching of welding days. dennis Engelkenjohn ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall You can use galvanized steel. (very cheap and proper) Regs say .016 or .018" , not sure, you have to check. Just can't be aluminum. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the sheet metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested in the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be the proper guage of stainless for the firewall? -Scott Schreiber href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
In my opinion galvanized would be fine. If it gets hot enough to burn toxic fumes (esspecially while in flight) from the galvaniszed steel firewall, all the wood, and fabric from the nose to the stabilizer, ( Not to mention the soiled britches) would be turining to ashes as the flames shot out of the cowling and even if the wood held out, the fumes would be blowing on by. Just my 2 cents Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
The idea of the firewall is to hold the direct fire from burning the wood and/or going to the cabin, meantime the fire is out, given that the pilot shuts the gas and the master switch off at the real beguining of fire (first smell), Advise: Ffirst shut off then investigate the probably cause. The firewall probably will hold the engine compartment fire time enough for the plane to land and the pilot RUN out of it... Or when is only a little amount of gasoline, burns off, in case of a faulty hose or broken gas tube, or broken carburator leveler (sp?) (best scenario) If the galvanized is burning fumes already... Real bad luck! The poor pilot is already so burned that will not make it consious (or alive) to the crash land zone, galvanized fumes or not. The pilot has to be alert to stop the fire in the beguining.... Is like trying to put a house fire off with a hand stinguisher... The hand stinguisher is to open the way out as fast as possible of the burning buildimg. or to stop a little beguining fire. The cars get totaled when fire because two things: The gas tank is level with the car and the gas keep driping out and making more fire, (No shut off valve in cars) or the shorted electric cables keep burning until the BIG batery in the car looses his charge (No Master Switch)... Hope I am right... Better: Hope no one of us be ever in this cruel scenario!!! God Bess Us. Saludos Gary Gower. Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote: If, God forbid the worst happens and there is a fire, won't the galvanizing burn off and make a poisonous gas? I remember WW saying something about how bad the fumes were from his teaching of welding days. dennis Engelkenjohn ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall You can use galvanized steel. (very cheap and proper) Regs say .016 or .018" , not sure, you have to check. Just can't be aluminum. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the sheet metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested in the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be the proper guage of stainless for the firewall? -Scott Schreiber href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Brass radiator
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Forrest, I hope you are kidding, I have been after you for a radiator for a loooong time. Gene Rambo ----- Original Message ----- From: FTLovley(at)aol.com<mailto:FTLovley(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brass radiator Gene WHOOOOO....?? www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Winter does live in Ohio today !
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Sorry Mike, can't help you here. I was sitting out in the woods looking for deer today, before dawn, 4 degrees. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Winter does live in Ohio today ! Tim Hansen is right.....took this photo today at 6:45 am before starting work: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Today's Special! My old project is still for sale
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Hello guys (and others), Just as a yearly reminder, I still have my old Piet project up for sale. Just for the record, I didn't build it but I know the guy who did and it seems like he did a pretty darn good job of building the thing. It's not pretty like DJ's masterpiece but kind of functional-looking like an old weathered cowboy. It's mostly made of douglas fir and thus, the fuselage longerons are 3/4" x 3/4". Make of that what you will. I have attached a few pictures. As you'll notice, the fuse is upside down in them but it can be turned right side up when you build it. As you are rotating it to an upright condition, however, you'll likely notice that the side ply panels are somewhat, um... let's say delaminated. That's because while I was moving it from Illinois to Florida on a trailer, the weather gods decided to have their way with it. I'm calling it 'seasoned wood' but you'll probably want to replace the ply panels with shiny new pretty stuff. Either that or go look in the ditch near the I-57 Exit at Marion Illinois. There you'll find the outer laminations and you could glue them back on in a jiffy with a dab of Gorilla glue. So as you can see from the photos, the project includes the fuse, tail feathers and all wing ribs. I'm looking to get $300 for the whole thing. Okay, stop it! I'll take $250 from one of you guys! Jeez, talk about pressure!? I live in Jacksonville Florida and sorry but at that price, I'll help you load it up on your very own trailer but that's about it. Well I will give you directions to that exit ramp ditch in Illinois too. Let me know. Sorry for the sales pitch but I have a 150 and am starting a Sonex project and am also still building my boat. In order to preserve at least a little vestige of my marriage, this project has to go (did I mention the VP-2 wing ribs in the attic?) Eric ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Marginal topic
One thing we know for sure. It ain't butter! Clif > > > Marginal > > fringy: at or constituting a border or edge; > > borderline: of questionable or minimal quality; "borderline grades"; " > > hardscrabble: of a bare living gained by great labor; "the sharecropper's > hardscrabble life"; > > "a marginal existence" > > bare(a): just barely adequate or within a lower limit; "a bare majority"; > "a marginal victory" > > producing at a rate that barely covers production costs; "marginal > industries"; > > being close to a lower limit or or of lower class; "marginal abilities" > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
In a message dated 12/5/2006 6:09:59 PM Central Standard Time, wingding(at)usmo.com writes: If, God forbid the worst happens and there is a fire, won't the galvanizing burn off and make a poisonous gas? I remember WW saying something about how bad the fumes were from his teaching of welding days. dennis Engelkenjohn Dennis, Although it is an acceptable material, that's a possibility that I hadn't thought of. Might be the reason that most certified aircraft have Stainless Steel firewalls (.016" - .018"). I've welded and braized on galvanized, and it definitely puts off fumes (poisonous) that I felt in my throat. Just another reason I would vote for a Stainless Steel firewall, backed up with FibreFax material. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Dec 05, 2006
Either the long or the short fuselage will work with the -65 Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > > Hi everyone-I'm new on the list and have been enjoying the dialog for some > time now. Needless to say i'm an airplane nut and have wanted to build a > piet for some time now. I have my ribs made and most wood for the project > except spars and longerons. By the way if anyone was planning to buy any > spruce fom Paxtons in KC they have cut in half all there 16 18 and 20ft. > boardes (per the new owner). I have a temporary table made for the fus. > jig and have decided to go with a 65 ( even tho I love the looks and sound > of the A much more) I have a short strip and daughters that will be flying > the piet so its the Cont. for more power. I thought I understood that the > long fus. was to be used with the 65. Is this correct. You won't find me > speaking my oppinions a lot but i do enjoy reading all the post and > learning from them. Have a great Day. Steve Singleton Hale MO. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
Date: Dec 06, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I don't see how a hand extinguisher is going to work anyway since as soon as you reliese the extinguishing gas it will just blow back into your face.I have a hand extinguisher in my aircraft and to be quite frank,I think it is just excess baggage.Once stopped and on the ground it may do some good providing the wind isn't blowing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
"chkvalve?
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Some cars do now have a roll over valve to shut the gas off if the car flips. Also it is a USCG requirement that a check valve be installed at the tank on a gas engined boat. What is the drawback of a check valve on an aviation engine. I understand that it is one other piece in the fuel system that could cause a power loss but it would be a great safeguard in a crash. I suppose the tank would rupture if the crash was severe enough and a fuelcell could help that. I think I heard someone say planes are not built to crash. What do you guys think? >From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and >firewall >Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:45:18 -0800 (PST) > >The idea of the firewall is to hold the direct fire from burning the wood >and/or going to the cabin, meantime the fire is out, given that the pilot >shuts the gas and the master switch off at the real beguining of fire >(first smell), >Advise: Ffirst shut off then investigate the probably cause. >The firewall probably will hold the engine compartment fire time enough for >the plane to land and the pilot RUN out of it... Or when is only a little >amount of gasoline, burns off, in case of a faulty hose or broken gas tube, >or broken carburator leveler (sp?) (best scenario) > >If the galvanized is burning fumes already... Real bad luck! The poor >pilot is already so burned that will not make it consious (or alive) to >the crash land zone, galvanized fumes or not. > >The pilot has to be alert to stop the fire in the beguining.... Is like >trying to put a house fire off with a hand stinguisher... The hand >stinguisher is to open the way out as fast as possible of the burning >buildimg. or to stop a little beguining fire. > >The cars get totaled when fire because two things: The gas tank is level >with the car and the gas keep driping out and making more fire, (No shut >off valve in cars) or the shorted electric cables keep burning until >the BIG batery in the car looses his charge (No Master Switch)... > >Hope I am right... Better: Hope no one of us be ever in this cruel >scenario!!! >God Bess Us. > >Saludos >Gary Gower. > >Dennis Engelkenjohn wrote: If, God forbid the >worst happens and there is a fire, won't the galvanizing burn off and make >a poisonous gas? I remember WW saying something about how bad the fumes >were from his teaching of welding days. > dennis Engelkenjohn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: walt evans > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 5:00 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings >and firewall > > > You can use galvanized steel. (very cheap and proper) Regs say .016 >or .018" , not sure, you have to check. Just can't be aluminum. > walt evans >NX140DL > > "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" >Ben Franklin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Schreiber > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:34 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings >and firewall > > > I am ready to start cutting some metal fittings and need the >sheet metal for my firewall as well. I have seen some different alloys >suggested for cutting the fittings from other than the one suggested >in the plan. What is the best option for the fittings? What would be >the proper guage of stainless for the firewall? > > -Scott Schreiber > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > >--------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version.Join now. http://ideas.live.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Winter does live in Ohio today !
Date: Dec 06, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Did you get one, Dick? Jack in NC Where the weather is warm but the deer are smaller than in Minnesota -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:52 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Winter does live in Ohio today ! Sorry Mike, can't help you here. I was sitting out in the woods looking for deer today, before dawn, 4 degrees. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Winter does live in Ohio today ! Tim Hansen is right.....took this photo today at 6:45 am before starting work: _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Hampshire Taildragger haven
Date: Dec 06, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Guys-- my mother-in-law Gayle brought me back a sweatshirt from this airport cafe on her recent trip up there to see her son and his family. She said that I would really love this airstrip so I did a little searching. It sounds like an IDEAL place to learn to fly and they start you off in TAILDRAGGERS. Tooooo cooool. If you have 2.5 million, the place is for sale, by the way. No Wal Mart need apply---the guy ain't sellin' to developers !! Mike C. http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/07232006/nhnews-23sun-airfield.html <http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/07232006/nhnews-23sun-airfield.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Winter does live in Ohio today !
Date: Dec 06, 2006
MessageNot yet. Weather has been pretty screwed up but now there is some snow up there. I'll be back out on Fri morning. It's muzzleloader season, so there aren't a lot of hunters out. I've seen eagles, wolves and foxes, but the deer are really sneaky. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:34 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Winter does live in Ohio today ! Did you get one, Dick? Jack in NC Where the weather is warm but the deer are smaller than in Minnesota -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 10:52 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Winter does live in Ohio today ! Sorry Mike, can't help you here. I was sitting out in the woods looking for deer today, before dawn, 4 degrees. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 2:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Winter does live in Ohio today ! Tim Hansen is right.....took this photo today at 6:45 am before starting work: _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: My airplane just exploded
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Really no other way to put it. I had about 2/3 of my crossmembers completed and I was cutting the extra length from the lengerons in preperation to put it on it's back again to start installing the floor. As I was moving it I heard that sound like you hear in the movies when someone is standing on a fozen lake and it starts to crack. Then it opened up like a fucking zipper and I was standing there with two fuse halves in my hands that were still joined at the tail with one or two crossmembers still hanging from one side or another. It appears that the glue joints (T88 epoxy) did no fail but the wood itself was torn off. I really don't know where to head at this point. I am worried about being able to reglue the joints, if that is safe or not. If I can't, I am not to excited about throwing away that much money and time to try again. Aftermath: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split1.jpg Glue joint failures: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split2.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: My airplane just exploded
Don't think it's the end of the world. Should be able to clean the glue up smooth and reglue. Think you relied on the butt joints too much. You have to have all the gussets you can on. The gussets are the real tension strength walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My airplane just exploded Really no other way to put it. I had about 2/3 of my crossmembers completed and I was cutting the extra length from the lengerons in preperation to put it on it's back again to start installing the floor. As I was moving it I heard that sound like you hear in the movies when someone is standing on a fozen lake and it starts to crack. Then it opened up like a fucking zipper and I was standing there with two fuse halves in my hands that were still joined at the tail with one or two crossmembers still hanging from one side or another. It appears that the glue joints (T88 epoxy) did no fail but the wood itself was torn off. I really don't know where to head at this point. I am worried about being able to reglue the joints, if that is safe or not. If I can't, I am not to excited about throwing away that much money and time to try again. Aftermath: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split1.jpg Glue joint failures: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split2.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My airplane just exploded
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Scott, Yeah, that sucks, Clear proof that those but joints are not enough, they are there for compression only. For that reason I would sand off the epoxy and re-use them. Then before you move the fuse or remove any clamps, glue the two ply boards in place that fit under the cowling ( 9 x 24 and 7 x 24 If I recall correctly) They work as a large gusset and are there for this purpose. Plus glue the ply firewall in place. It never hurts to leave a large clamp in pace until you have that other large gusset (the floor) glued in, anyway Hans "Scott Schreiber" To Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: My airplane just exploded 12/06/2006 02:17 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Really no other way to put it. I had about 2/3 of my crossmembers completed and I was cutting the extra length from the lengerons in preperation to put it on it's back again to start installing the floor. As I was moving it I heard that sound like you hear in the movies when someone is standing on a fozen lake and it starts to crack. Then it opened up like a fucking zipper and I was standing there with two fuse halves in my hands that were still joined at the tail with one or two crossmembers still hanging from one side or another. It appears that the glue joints (T88 epoxy) did no fail but the wood itself was torn off. I really don't know where to head at this point. I am worried about being able to reglue the joints, if that is safe or not. If I can't, I am not to excited about throwing away that much money and time to try again. Aftermath: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split1.jpg Glue joint failures: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split2.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: My airplane just exploded
Date: Dec 06, 2006
You need the gussets to hold it together.. I kept both ends of my fuselage clamped until the floor, bottom gussets, top gussets, and front shelf was installed. (and allowed to dry for a couple days) Just sand , reglue clamp and GUSSET. No worries! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My airplane just exploded Really no other way to put it. I had about 2/3 of my crossmembers completed and I was cutting the extra length from the lengerons in preperation to put it on it's back again to start installing the floor. As I was moving it I heard that sound like you hear in the movies when someone is standing on a fozen lake and it starts to crack. Then it opened up like a fucking zipper and I was standing there with two fuse halves in my hands that were still joined at the tail with one or two crossmembers still hanging from one side or another. It appears that the glue joints (T88 epoxy) did no fail but the wood itself was torn off. I really don't know where to head at this point. I am worried about being able to reglue the joints, if that is safe or not. If I can't, I am not to excited about throwing away that much money and time to try again. Aftermath: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split1.jpg Glue joint failures: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split2.jpg <http://www.buildersbooks.com> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
You may want to consider the longer fuselage for two reasons, 1) you can always put on a larger heavier motor at some later date and still not have too many problems keeping the weight within the cg envelope, 2) Rudder petal dancin', the longer the fuselage the easier to keep control during landings. If you've ever watched a shorty fuselage Pitts guy land hot, you can see the pilot dancing on the rudder to keep it on straight and narrow, the plane wiggles it's tail like a minnow. For many early landings with your niffty new Piete, you'll be doing the petal dance like never before, even with a long fuselage. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: Catdesigns catdesigns(at)comcast.net Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:27:53 -0800 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... Either the long or the short fuselage will work with the -65 Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > > Hi everyone-I'm new on the list and have been enjoying the dialog for some > time now. Needless to say i'm an airplane nut and have wanted to build a > piet for some time now. I have my ribs made and most wood for the project > except spars and longerons. By the way if anyone was planning to buy any > spruce fom Paxtons in KC they have cut in half all there 16 18 and 20ft. > boardes (per the new owner). I have a temporary table made for the fus. > jig and have decided to go with a 65 ( even tho I love the looks and sound > of the A much more) I have a short strip and daughters that will be flying > the piet so its the Cont. for more power. I thought I understood that the > long fus. was to be used with the 65. Is this correct. You won't find me > speaking my oppinions a lot but i do enjoy reading all the post and > learning from them. Have a great Day. Steve Singleton Hale MO. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Subject: re: corvair wooden props
I am building a Corvair powered short fuselage Piet. I would like to know what prop length,pitch,prop manufacturer you used or did you carve your own. I would also like to know wheather you used WW complete conversion,partial conversion or did you go the Bernie Pietenpol conversion. Ted Stone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: My airplane just exploded
Date: Dec 06, 2006
I had full side gussets on, but no top and bottom gussets. While I have for a long time, and still do, understand the gusset, I didn't expect that they wouldn't withstand simple handeling. So, let my bad day be a lesson to others not to move the structure without gussets! ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Abramson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: My airplane just exploded You need the gussets to hold it together... I kept both ends of my fuselage clamped until the floor, bottom gussets, top gussets, and front shelf was installed. (and allowed to dry for a couple days) Just sand , reglue clamp and GUSSET. No worries! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:17 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: My airplane just exploded Really no other way to put it. I had about 2/3 of my crossmembers completed and I was cutting the extra length from the lengerons in preperation to put it on it's back again to start installing the floor. As I was moving it I heard that sound like you hear in the movies when someone is standing on a fozen lake and it starts to crack. Then it opened up like a fucking zipper and I was standing there with two fuse halves in my hands that were still joined at the tail with one or two crossmembers still hanging from one side or another. It appears that the glue joints (T88 epoxy) did no fail but the wood itself was torn off. I really don't know where to head at this point. I am worried about being able to reglue the joints, if that is safe or not. If I can't, I am not to excited about throwing away that much money and time to try again. Aftermath: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split1.jpg Glue joint failures: http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/split2.jpg -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com List Contribution Web Site --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
In reading Mr Bowen's advice about the longer fuse (which I agree with) I am reminded of the advice Steve Wittman gave me when I was 19 years old and about to fly my first short fuse Pitts powered with the 180 Lyc...he said "when you cross the fence on landing, make absolutely sure that you are going straight ahead...then don't f--- with it..!!" Forrest Lovley - - 41 years later ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
In a message dated 12/6/2006 6:04:25 AM Central Standard Time, harvey.rule(at)bell.ca writes: I don=99t see how a hand extinguisher is going to work anyway since as soon as you reliese the extinguishing gas it will just blow back into your face.I ha ve a hand extinguisher in my aircraft and to be quite frank,I think it is just excess baggage.Once stopped and on the ground it may do some good providing the wind isn=99t blowing. I have a small fire extinguisher in my cockpit, next to my left hip. It is there in case I am on fire...forget about trying to put out the burning plan e with it. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Subject: Re: Sheet metal suggestions for fittings and firewall
"chkval... In a message dated 12/6/2006 6:05:34 AM Central Standard Time, redsglass(at)hotmail.com writes: What is the drawback of a check valve on an aviation engine. I understand that it is one other piece in the fuel system that could cause a power loss but it would be a great safeguard in a crash. I suppose the tank would rupture if the crash was severe enough and a fuelcell could help that. I think I heard someone say planes are not built to crash. What do you guys think? Forget about the check valve in the fuel line of an aircraft. The vast majority of engine failures are fuel related...no sense adding another piece that could cause the big fan to stop turning..."If it ain't there, it can't break". Build your plane light, with quality construction and maintenance. In other words - build it Airworthy, not Crashworthy. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Winter does live in Ohio today !
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: re: corvair wooden props
Date: Dec 06, 2006
mine with 'Vair power has a Tennessee 66x29 but I would get a 66x31 of I were to do it over again. ----- Original Message ----- From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: corvair wooden props I am building a Corvair powered short fuselage Piet. I would like to know what prop length,pitch,prop manufacturer you used or did you carve your own. I would also like to know wheather you used WW complete conversion,partial conversion or did you go the Bernie Pietenpol conversion. Ted Stone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Fuse questions...
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Looks like i'll be building the long fus. Thanks. Steve Singleton ----- Original Message ----- From: <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 3:36 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuse questions... > > > You may want to consider the longer fuselage for two reasons, 1) you can > always put on a larger heavier motor at some later date and still not have > too many problems keeping the weight within the cg envelope, 2) Rudder > petal dancin', the longer the fuselage the easier to keep control during > landings. If ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: re: corvair wooden props
Am building a long fuselage Piet with a Corvair. Am building the engine to WW's specs using most all the parts he sells. Also sent my heads to Falcon for rebuilding. Total cost should be around $5500. Some say a WW spec Corvair should produce 20-30 HP more than an original conversion with a stock fan, cam, etc. Rick On 12/6/06, TGSTONE236(at)aol.com wrote: > > I am building a Corvair powered short fuselage Piet. > > I would like to know what prop length,pitch,prop manufacturer you used or > did you carve your own. > > I would also like to know wheather you used WW complete conversion,partial > conversion or did you go the Bernie Pietenpol conversion. > > Ted Stone > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: my airplane just exploded
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Scott; I can't tell you how many of those moments I've had in the 10 or so years that I've actually been building an airplane or working on one, but you quickly cycle through various emotions... torch the whole thing; run your chainsaw through it all; sell it and do something else; pull out your hair (unless you're bald); throw that can of @#$%& glue in the trash; and so forth. It is a sinking, despairing feeling usually followed by drinking something strong and following it up by drinking something stronger. It's the same feeling you get when you melt a big piece of plexiglass that should have been a canopy, or you cut a hole that's too big in something you just covered, or you drop something and break it, or you scratch something you just painted, or you step through a fabric covering, or you drop a nut or screw into a place where it can never be retrieved, or any of a number of other things. What I've found is the best thing to do is leave the shop, turn off the lights, and go have a drink. In a day, or two or three, go back in and survey the damage and figure out what you did wrong. Reworking the damage is painful and it's OK to mumble under your breath as you do it, but just remember that hundreds (thousands?) of these airplanes are out there flying and they were all built just like yours is... in a garage, or hangar, or workshop, by ordinary people with ordinary skills. And there is not a single builder out there -NOT ONE- who has started and finished his project without having a "my airplane just exploded" moment at some stage in the construction. You can do it. But if you decide to throw in the towel, give me your address and I'll be happy to go pick up your entire pile of wood and stuff instead of having you make a bonfire with it ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday cash from MSN today! http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Hill <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: T-88 and urathane
Date: Dec 06, 2006
I used urethane glue for the semicircular laminated support for the rear si de of the inst. panels and it worked great. But I do have a question to put out there for T88. I have a container of opened but barely used T88 resin that was purchased just a few months ago. Except for the top 1/8" the entir e volume of the resin has gone solid and milky and I have no idea why. If s omething was to solidify, I would have expected it to be the hardener. Has anybody else seen this? Jeff Hill in North Texas - all woodwork done, now working on cockpit meta l stuff (and the rebuild of a Stearman, don't ask) _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.- Get a free 90-day trial ! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham and Robyn" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Wood varnish
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: T-88 and urathane
Date: Dec 06, 2006
Jeff did it got cold in Texas? I recall reading in the instructions that this can happen. What I think you need to do is heat the resin. Check out the instructions or web page to see how hot to get it. System three's website, The Part A resin has hardened and turned white. Can I still use it? Yes. The white solid or haziness is a mass of resin crystals. Crystallized resin will not cure properly. These can be melted by heating the container to 120=B0F. The resin will clear up and be as good as new. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Hill To: Pietenpol pietlist Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 and urathane I used urethane glue for the semicircular laminated support for the rear side of the inst. panels and it worked great. But I do have a question to put out there for T88. I have a container of opened but barely used T88 resin that was purchased just a few months ago. Except for the top 1/8" the entire volume of the resin has gone solid and milky and I have no idea why. If something was to solidify, I would have expected it to be the hardener. Has anybody else seen this? Jeff Hill in North Texas - all woodwork done, now working on cockpit metal stuff (and the rebuild of a Stearman, don't ask) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Wood varnish
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Graham, You need something that will work with the covering system. I used poly fibre to cover so I used Wattyl Estapol for the varnish. Seems to be MEK resistant. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham and Robyn Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 5:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood varnish Any comments on wood varnish, does it have to be two pack? Thanks Graham Hewitt "http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com "http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List 4:39 PM -- 4:39 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Subject: Re: T-88 and urathane
Jeff, This happened to me also. Just heat it up gently with a heat gun and it goes back to normal. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-88 and urathane
Date: Dec 07, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Happens to me also, I heat in a pan of warm water. Jack Textor www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: re: corvair wooden props
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Ted, Long fuse, full WW conversion but with Zenith carburetor Tennessee prop 64 x 34 Hans NX 15KV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: T-88
Date: Dec 07, 2006
I put it in the microwave and that works great to "un-crystallize", with the caution that you don't want to overheat it. If you do, the liquid is so runny that it becomes difficult to meter it out. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: T-88
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Harvey; as far as I know, there is no chemical change happening when I microwave the epoxy component that has crystallized. The microwave energy only acts to heat up the material just like it does to a soy burger when you pop it in and beep it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0601&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: T-88
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Group, It doesn't seem to affect the T-88 resin (the white stuff) when it is heated to return it to a liquid state. I have some T-88 I bought back in the 1980's, and I have re-heated the resin perhaps ten times since then. For some time I have used it for non-aircraft applications and would not hesitate to use it on aircraft because it has always proved to be reliable when joining both hard and soft woods used in other projects. Granulation of the resin component is very similar to what can happen to honey after a time, and it can be liquified in exactly the same way: by heating the container. (I'd be a bit hesitant about using the microwave for this and have always placed the container in a pot of hot water.) Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: T-88
About the heating of t-88..I remember reading that somewhere in some literature that came with the glue, on the box or somewhere, but it WAS from the manufacturer. The newest batch I ordered didn't have that info with it, or I droped the pamphlet somewhere. But it stated "May crystalize below 40deg F. .......It is harmless and can be heated in a pot of hot water to get rid of the haziness......" Any way it worked good for me, I just used hot tap water, in a 2 Qt butter tub and let it sit in there for 20 min or so. I don't claim to be an expert, but, I would NOT use a microwave oven for this task. I have seen guys at work (for the airlines) put pro-seal (a 2 part sealant) in the microwave to heat it for a faster cure time, and some times it will bake the sealant hard as a rock in 10 seconds, with out even mixing in the catalyst. And the real bad thing is if and when the pressure builds up inside the bottles of glue they will explode all over the inside of your microwave (unless you take the lid off), rendering it useless for cooking food, as epoxy is very poisionous, hard to clean thuroughly ,and does't taste very good on popcorn. Just remember to bring that glue in side for the winter. My 1 1/2 cents Shad --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2006
From: dslane(at)logical.net
Subject:
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2006
From: dslane(at)logical.net
Subject: bungee cord
Hi, I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: bungee cord
Date: Dec 07, 2006
Don Order 25 ft of 1/2" bungee. That will give you more than enough for both sides. You will need 4 wraps and you will have to play with it to give the right tension. Don't cut off the excess till you are really sure it's on for the last time. Having extra cord will save the back of the person doing the pulling. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: <dslane(at)logical.net> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord > > Hi, > I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the > original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord > and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I > also would like information about weight and balance limits on the > airplane. > Don Lane > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2006
Subject: Weight and Balance
In a message dated 12/7/2006 7:10:24 PM Central Standard Time, dslane(at)logical.net writes: I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don, You probably already realize that weight and balance is a term relative to the where the weight balances within the wing chord. Bernard Pietenpol said it should be between 1/4 and 1/3 of the wing chord. The chord is 60", therefore, the limits are between 15" and 20" behind the leading edge of the wing. I have all the loading configurations for my airplane listed on at the bottom of this page of my web site: http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: T-88
Yes, I would second that. Don't use a microwave. It heats the material internaly as opposed to an oven or pot of water. It is also heating rapidly and if the heated material cannot circulate itself fast enough due to high viscosity then a hotspot can develop and rapidly overheat and creat a gas bubble that can explode the still liquid material around it outwards. If you're lucky this will happen BEFORE you reach in to take the container out! Even water can be made to do this. 999 times out of a thousand that cup of tea you are reheating will be fine but there have been times when that water has been superheated and still liquid only to rapidly bubble into steam and boiling water all over the hand just reaching in to pick the cup up. I can attest that this is NOT funny. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 About the heating of t-88..I remember reading that somewhere in some literature that came with the glue, on the box or somewhere, but it WAS from the manufacturer. The newest batch I ordered didn't have that info with it, or I droped the pamphlet somewhere. But it stated "May crystalize below 40deg F. .......It is harmless and can be heated in a pot of hot water to get rid of the haziness......" Any way it worked good for me, I just used hot tap water, in a 2 Qt butter tub and let it sit in there for 20 min or so. I don't claim to be an expert, but, I would NOT use a microwave oven for this task. I have seen guys at work (for the airlines) put pro-seal (a 2 part sealant) in the microwave to heat it for a faster cure time, and some times it will bake the sealant hard as a rock in 10 seconds, with out even mixing in the catalyst. And the real bad thing is if and when the pressure builds up inside the bottles of glue they will explode all over the inside of your microwave (unless you take the lid off), rendering it useless for cooking food, as epoxy is very poisionous, hard to clean thuroughly ,and does't taste very good on popcorn. Just remember to bring that glue in side for the winter. My 1 1/2 cents Shad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/7/2006 1:31 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser only underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. The nice List gifts will be available on the site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your great gift. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Paul, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2006 List of Contributors current as of 12/7/06! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2006.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Kitlog Pro serial numbers should go out via email this weekend. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-88
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I was referring to when heated in the microwave.I know you can reheat it but doesn't the microwave change the molecular properties?I'm no scientist but I am an electronics technologist and I have a working knowledge of how the microwave functions.It isn't very different to how a radar station works.Magnitron,klystron mode etc.,very high freq.,so high that it won't run inside a wire.It uses a wave guide or in long wave it can use a cable.Been a long time since I actually worked on one but the microwave is just a miniature model of the radar transmitters.The thing I remember most was DON'T TOUCH THE KIPP RELAY or you won't live to tell about it.The microwave cooks from the inside out,not the outside in and it's very difficult to tell what's going on until it's too late.It also cooks in a pattern.That's why the old ones never cooked properly till they put in the rotating dish that gives more of an even overall spread of the microwaves.I find most food cooked in it doesn't taste right(thus the molecular change I'm reffering to).With most things it will remove the water very quickly and leave you with a dried up piece of whatever.Not very appetizing.Who knows what it's doing to the glue? -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Sent: December 7, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88 <ghans@cable-lynx.net> Group, It doesn't seem to affect the T-88 resin (the white stuff) when it is heated to return it to a liquid state. I have some T-88 I bought back in the 1980's, and I have re-heated the resin perhaps ten times since then. For some time I have used it for non-aircraft applications and would not hesitate to use it on aircraft because it has always proved to be reliable when joining both hard and soft woods used in other projects. Granulation of the resin component is very similar to what can happen to honey after a time, and it can be liquified in exactly the same way: by heating the container. (I'd be a bit hesitant about using the microwave for this and have always placed the container in a pot of hot water.) Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-88
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
It might be interesting to run a test of the glue function before and after microwaving it.I don't have any or I would try it.Stress factors etc.It may not appear to have made any change.Like I said in a previous letter,I'm no scientist but I would be interested in seeing the data on this.In the mean time don't fly through any radar waves (;o HAHAHAHA! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: December 7, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88 Harvey; as far as I know, there is no chemical change happening when I microwave the epoxy component that has crystallized. The microwave energy only acts to heat up the material just like it does to a soy burger when you pop it in and beep it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId00,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 060 1&tcode=wlmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: bungee cord
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Don, Where in NC are you? My Pietenpol is based at Cox Field, in Apex NC, just southwest of Raleigh (about 6 miles south of RDU airport) Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dslane(at)logical.net Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bungee cord Hi, I am new to this forum and am building a pietenpol in NC. It has the original jenny type landing gear. I need advice on what size bungee cord and how much to order. Also, how many turns to take around the axle. I also would like information about weight and balance limits on the airplane. Don Lane _- _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: CG-whats the sweet spot
There was a nice article on this in the most recent BPA Newlsetter, but no mention of a sweet spot, only how sour things get when you're outside the limits. > >Is there any type of consensus that the Pietenpol fly's better with the CG >closer to the 15"mark or 20"mark behind the leading edge of the wing? >I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its >published limit. > >John Rocca >Professional Aerial Photographer >AngelWingsAviation.com >Cell: 412-445-5995 >Office: 412-835-5292 -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2006
Subject: Re: CG-whats the sweet spot
In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jboatri(at)emory.edu writes: I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its >published limit. I remember watching a King(?) video saying that flying with CG at aft limit could make your plane cruise faster and more economically. Something to the effect that it requires less elevator to control pitch..thereby reducing drag....just DON'T GO TOO FAR AFT!!!! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CG-whats the sweet spot
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
In mine, I generally fly solo with the CG about 1/2" to 1" ahead of the aft limit (I'm too fat). It's hard to say what the "sweet spot" is, because the only way to easily change the CG is to add weight up front in the baggage compartment or the front seat. Generally, the effects of more weight greatly overshadow the effects of a CG shift. I do notice that I have to reset the trim when carrying a load up front, but once re-trimmed, it flies about the same. I'd say the sweet spot covers the entire CG range, because the elevators (flippers) are extremely powerful and effective. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot There was a nice article on this in the most recent BPA Newlsetter, but no mention of a sweet spot, only how sour things get when you're outside the limits. > >Is there any type of consensus that the Pietenpol fly's better with the >CG closer to the 15"mark or 20"mark behind the leading edge of the >wing? I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft >of its published limit. > >John Rocca >Professional Aerial Photographer >AngelWingsAviation.com >Cell: 412-445-5995 >Office: 412-835-5292 -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: CG-whats the sweet spot
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
This is true. When I was a young engineer working on the F-16 program (scary to think that a plane I worked on in the mid 1970's is still a front line fighter) I learned the F-16 is designed with negative static stability. If the flight control computer were to fail, the plane would tumble end-over-end. This was done primarily to enhance maneuverability, but also to improve speed and fuel economy by eliminating "trim" drag. Most Pietenpols tend to fly with the trailing edge of the elevator down a bit, indicating that the horizontal tail is actually providing some lift, rather than the downforce required on most modern airplanes. I believe this has to do with the pitching moment of the Pietenpol airfoil. I can say with certainty that in my RV-4, I can really tell when I'm getting close to an aft CG situation. The plane becomes very "twitchy" in pitch. When my wife and I go on a trip, I've become very careful to limit her to a total of 35 lbs of baggage. Any more than that and the plane just gets too squirrely, particularly when low on fuel (the tanks in the RV-4 are ahead of the CG). With the Pietenpol, it doesn't seem to change the flight characteristics much to be right up against the aft limit. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:45 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CG-whats the sweet spot In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:40:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jboatri(at)emory.edu writes: I believe the mini-max drivers like their CG right near the aft of its >published limit. I remember watching a King(?) video saying that flying with CG at aft limit could make your plane cruise faster and more economically. Something to the effect that it requires less elevator to control pitch..thereby reducing drag....just DON'T GO TOO FAR AFT!!!! Boyce _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jack- you think you're old? II
Date: Dec 08, 2006
PS- A Pietenpol departs Oshkosh Wittman airfield, headed for Brodhead, about 120 miles away. At the same time a T-38 leaves Oshkosh headed west. By the time the Piet taxies off the runway at Brodhead, the T-38 is past Portland, Oregon, 1600 miles away and about to leave the continental U.S.... ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: t-38
I just saw a T-38 an hour ago while I was at work. The flight crew was borrowing our "huffer" cart for engine start. From the 509th. I had never previously seen one up close, man that wing is THIN! It must land at half power and at 160kts or so? That looks like it would be a blast to fly, even if it can't slow down to 40mph for a landing. Shad --------------------------------- Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people who know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-38 Talon
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Long as we're talking older jets, while at the USAF Museum in Dayton Ohio this summer I couldn't get over how short the T-38 Talon's wings were. I stretched my arms out from the side of the fuselage and just 3 feet from my fingertips was the wingtip--- each wing panel is only about 8.5 feet long ! A Pietenpol wing panel is 13 feet long and we can't climb nearly as fast as a T-38 but can out-turn them every single time ! The T-38 has had a bunch of upgrades--the Air Force loves it and if you go to the link below they are continually upgrading it with newer technology for keeping pace with the training requirements for the Air Force Materiel Command. Plus the plane is downright sexy. The T-38 needs only 2,300 feet of runway for takeoff and can climb from sea level to nearly 30,000 feet in one minute. Student pilots fly the T-38A to learn supersonic techniques, aerobatics, formation, night and instrument flying and cross-country navigation. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=126 <http://www.af.mil/history/aircraft.asp?dec=&pid=123006570> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham and Robyn" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re varnish
Date: Dec 09, 2006
By two pack I did not refer to two cans of the same product, but one can of the basic varnish & one can of hardener. As suspected if you use the Dacron Stitts process for covering & use the wrong varnish, the Polytac will react & may destroy the varnish. If this happens then the whole integrity of the covering may be affected. Graham Hewitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fl ying from Oshkosh to Brodhead
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Jack Phillips is going to like this story because he can relate big time. (you froze your butt off too flying south from Oshkosh in 2005 after that nice, crisp, cool Canadian air moved in to Wisconsin) Upon departing Oshkosh one year (before the control tower even opened) I was headed for Brodhead and decided it was so cool I'd better put on a sweatshirt under my jacket. I discovered that my 1/2 gal. drinking water container had leaked on my clothing duffle bag. The sweatshirt wasn't too wet so I put in on anyway. Even at 2,000 feet cruising I was freezing cold and wish I was in a T-38 with a heated cockpit and vein drain tube for my little friend down south. I ended up having to stop at Blackhawk Airport in Madison, jumping out, watering the grass along the runway lights and then getting in the still idling Piet to takeoff again. It was so dead I never even taxied off the runway. There is something to be said for fast airplanes--they get to to the comfort stations mucho more quicko. (that is for you TexMex guys like Oscar down sawuth. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: T-38 Talon
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Makes you want to be an astronaut, just so you can fly one. I'd rather fly an F-16, though. It'll climb at 40,000 feet per minute, and will roll at 540 degrees per second. I flew a friend's Extra 300L a few times and its roll rate of 400 degrees per second was literally mind-boggling. I got to fly the F-16 simulator while I was working for General Dynamics and the roll rate was absolutely frighteneing - even in a simulator. I crashed it. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 4:08 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-38 Talon Long as we're talking older jets, while at the USAF Museum in Dayton Ohio this summer I couldn't get over how short the T-38 Talon's wings were. I stretched my arms out from the side of the fuselage and just 3 feet from my fingertips was the wingtip--- each wing panel is only about 8.5 feet long ! A Pietenpol wing panel is 13 feet long and we can't climb nearly as fast as a T-38 but can out-turn them every single time ! The T-38 has had a bunch of upgrades--the Air Force loves it and if you go to the link below they are continually upgrading it with newer technology for keeping pace with the training requirements for the Air Force Materiel Command. Plus the plane is downright sexy. The T-38 needs only 2,300 feet of runway for takeoff and can climb from sea level to nearly 30,000 feet in one minute. Student pilots fly the T-38A to learn supersonic techniques, aerobatics, formation, night and instrument flying and cross-country navigation. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=126 <http://www.af.mil/history/aircraft.asp?dec=&pid=123006570> _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Hill <jeff2dogs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: T88
Date: Dec 08, 2006
Well, son of a bear!!! I had that big refill size of T88 resin and I put in some very hot water over night. The next morning - no crystalization; no p roblem. Works great. Thanks. Jeff in Texas _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: T-38 Talon
As long as we're talking about Piets out-turning other airplanes, check out some of the videos I just uploaded to youtube. They're not very good, but better than nothing on a cold day! Piet tangles with Cassutt (this one is long): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7cS4FJeWg My first slip into runway 06 at Lenora: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzvk0lmr4O4 Last one in for the evening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LhkqIN35Y8 And yes, the trees and houses really are that close on approach to 06. Jeff >Long as we're talking older jets, while at the USAF Museum in Dayton >Ohio this summer I couldn't get over how short the T-38 Talon's >wings were. I stretched my arms out from the side of the fuselage >and just 3 feet from my fingertips was the wingtip--- each wing panel >is only about 8.5 feet long ! A Pietenpol wing panel is 13 feet >long and we can't climb nearly as fast as a T-38 but can out-turn >them every >single time ! > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2006
Subject: Re: Jack- you think you're old? II
Jack; Did you ever see Tom Mix reload his 6 gun? Ken HA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2006
Subject: wooden gear
Are the dimensions right in the '32 F&G Manual (page 17) for the white ash pieces? Seems like they should be 1 1/4 by 2 1/4 or something like that. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2006
Subject: Re: wooden gear
Ron, Yes the 1 3/4" dimension is correct. Why do yo think it should be 2 1/4"? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: movie inaccuracies done right--Airplane
Date: Dec 09, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I'll never forget in the winter of 1980 when myself and two other airplane nut buddies went to the theater to see the movie Airplane for the first time. Of the 70 or so people in the theater watching the opening scene of the jet airliner coming up thru the clouds, we were the only three in the whole place laughing our butts off because of the multi-engine recip sound clip they were using--something like a DC-6 or B-17 ! We got some weird looks but we didn't care--it was hilarious. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2006
From: Larry Rice <rice(at)iapdatacom.net>
Subject: CG Location
Remember that the tail is operating in the downwash from the wing, so even if the elevators are deflected down a bit, the tail may still be pushing down rather than up. Larry the micro mong guy -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: fire resistant paint
Date: Dec 09, 2006
A while back someone posted about a fire retardant paint. does anyone know what it is and where to get it? dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: fire resistant paint
Yes, The Poly Fiber Process walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint A while back someone posted about a fire retardant paint. does anyone know what it is and where to get it? dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 1/2 scale Piet on ebay
Date: Dec 09, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
this is so pretty I'm sorry the gent didn't just built a full-scale one ! http://cgi.ebay.com/1930S-PIETENPOL-Scale-Giant-Gas-Flying-Airplane-Mode l_W0QQitemZ130054239356QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: fire resistant paint
Date: Dec 09, 2006
The paint I am trying to find is for the firewall, I should have said that in my last post. dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: fire resistant paint
Don't know of firewalls that are painted. Mine is just galvanized steel and not painted. Do you have to paint it? walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint The paint I am trying to find is for the firewall, I should have said that in my last post. dennis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: fire resistant paint
Date: Dec 09, 2006
Actually, I am going to use stainless steel sheet. I didn't leave much room to get the bolt heads out of the motor mounts near the firewall. I am fessing up. you got to the truth. I don't know if there is room for the 1/8" fiberfrax. A buddy may have some asbestos sheet, but I prefer not to use it. The heat resistant paint is to paint the firewall wood under the SS. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint Don't know of firewalls that are painted. Mine is just galvanized steel and not painted. Do you have to paint it? walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint The paint I am trying to find is for the firewall, I should have said that in my last post. dennis href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 09, 2006
Subject: corvair air camper
I need lots of info on a corvair powered aircamper I am this close to buying matronics is great i belong to the kit fox forem also malcolm michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: fire resistant paint
Try this; http://www.flameseal.com/fxWFdesc.html Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint Actually, I am going to use stainless steel sheet. I didn't leave much room to get the bolt heads out of the motor mounts near the firewall. I am fessing up. you got to the truth. I don't know if there is room for the 1/8" fiberfrax. A buddy may have some asbestos sheet, but I prefer not to use it. The heat resistant paint is to paint the firewall wood under the SS. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint Don't know of firewalls that are painted. Mine is just galvanized steel and not painted. Do you have to paint it? walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint The paint I am trying to find is for the firewall, I should have said that in my last post. dennis href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/9/2006 3:41 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2006
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Flying Music (slightly OT)
Back in the early 70's, my Dad had a couple record albums by a folksinger named Oscar Brand. These 2 records were all flying songs, one Lp dedicated to general aviation! The songs are clean, humorous, and, darn it, quite amusing. I absconded with these records when I moved out a long long time ago, and recently dug them out. Near as I can tell these can't be purchased on a current release. I have found a few Oscar Brand compilation CD's, but it seems impossible to get all the airplane songs. SO.....I took the well played LP and dubbed in into my computer and made mp3's out of the tracks and uploaded them to my web server several months ago. Completely forgot about them till just now, and it dawned on me...that ya'll might enjoy giving them a listen. That said: http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/ Should take you to a file directory of mp3's. If you've got a decent internet connection you should be able to grab the songs in a few minutes. They're all pretty much light plane theme songs, and general flying songs that would apply to anyone flying anything in general aviation. I even burned the tracks to CD to play in the car, which drives th' wife nuts. And to make the post relevant, decided to go with long fuse, 'Vair power, 3 piece wing, and hopefully get started building ribs once we get past the holidays! Oh..and I have lots of tools on my letter to Santa! Tim in Bovey == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Flying Music (slightly OT)
Thanks, Tim! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: corvair air camper
What type of info do you need? The corvair is a relitivly simple engine, easy to work on and somewhat powerful. But from engine to engine they can be worlds apart depending on how they are set up, prop etc. I would be careful to check everything I could and would think about dismantling the engine for inspection if you don't know the history of the airplane and engine. This seems to be more critical in experimental aircraft, as any one can do there own work and a A+P never has to see it. (this goes on with certified aircraft owners as well) This is not to say homebuilders are inferrior, but I have met some people who take every shortcut they can to save pennies, and hopefully it never bites them in the ass. So if the airframe is in good shape, and the engines runs well it would probably be OK. If you know the history of the airplane that would be a BIG help. As for flying the corvair BEWARE OF CARB ICE!! They run fine but they will ice up pretty fast and loose power. I make it a habbit to cycle the carb heat every 10 min or so to make sure the carb is cleaned out. I read somewhere (William Wynne I think) that you can run a corvair all day with carb heat on and not hurt it, just not quite as much power. Good luck with your potential purchase, and you will love the sound of a corvair on climb out, it sounds like a cross of a radial and a 182. Shad Malcolmbru(at)aol.com wrote: I need lots of info on a corvair powered aircamper I am this close to buying matronics is great i belong to the kit fox forem also malcolm michigan --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: fire resistant paint
Date: Dec 10, 2006
Thanks Clif. I think that is the stuff. I am going to try sherwin williams tomorrow and if no luck I'll email this company. dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 10:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint Try this; http://www.flameseal.com/fxWFdesc.html Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint Actually, I am going to use stainless steel sheet. I didn't leave much room to get the bolt heads out of the motor mounts near the firewall. I am fessing up. you got to the truth. I don't know if there is room for the 1/8" fiberfrax. A buddy may have some asbestos sheet, but I prefer not to use it. The heat resistant paint is to paint the firewall wood under the SS. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: walt evans To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint Don't know of firewalls that are painted. Mine is just galvanized steel and not painted. Do you have to paint it? walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Engelkenjohn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fire resistant paint The paint I am trying to find is for the firewall, I should have said that in my last post. dennis href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 12/9/2006 3:41 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2006
Subject: Re: corvair air camper
on the kit fox site I got over 40 E mails today alone, so I mite like this site. the corvair has a fan belt but no starter I will learn moor Monday when I examen the books on the plain and motor it has a K corroborator? and carb heat I need to know moor about how to look at the motor and know what to look at. the plain was built in 94 and not flown much then brought to Michigan 5 years ago and not flown since tearing the motor down is a must for us I cant tell if there is anything on this motor that is not stock or if it has or needs a reduction drive on it some PICS would help mal. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Charlies ribs
Date: Dec 10, 2006
Does anyone who bought ribs from Charlie Rubek recall the type of wood he used to make them? He told me once but I can't remember now if it was White Cedar or Western Red Cedar. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: corvair air camper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Hi fellow Pieters. I'm new to the list, but have been following the posts for quite a while now. I'm in the throws of starting my Pitenpol, down under in Perth, Western Australia, a Corvair powered, Douglass Fir, long fuse variant. There are at lease two others I know of around the Perth area, Rod Wooler and Graham Hewitt who are at variouse stages of construction. There is also an original Burnie Pietenpol Scout based at our local Airport, Jandakot which arrived earlier this year. I have decided to strip my own wood from Douglas Fir stock I obtained from a local ladder manufacturer, who imports the timber from Canada. I did purchase two planks of Spruce for the ribs, from a gentleman in Queensland, Aust., which I stripped down to 1/2 x 1/4, and have started on the ribs. I chose the Corvair because it was an economical and powerful engine choice and offered the opportunity to build the "whole aircraft" from the ground up. I read as much as possible from specialist corvair conversion web sites before reaching my decision to use the Corvair. Of course, I'll be following WW's bible. I obtained the beginnings of the engine from Darren Barnfied, WW's Australian Agent and have used eBay, California Corvair and Clarks for various parts, slowly accumulating all that I need. One point which I see mentioned quite often as a warning against the Corvair is Carb Icing. I think it is important to note that it is NOT peculiar to the Corvair alone. It is common to most aircraft engines, uncertified and certified and it is dependent on the carburettor selection not the engine selection. This topic has been covered quite extensively on this site and others. Any how, I'm happy to proceed with the Corvair and will only know whether it lives up to it's reputation, good or bad, when I start flying... a few more years into the future. I'll be looking closly at which carb I use. (Just purchased a RevFlow on Ebay, so will keep that one for testing, together with others) PS. As you all know, there are other builders of the Pietenpol in Australia, but they are at lease 4000km away!! Thanks for a great List, which I look forward to reading every day. Regards, John Woods ---- Original Message ---- From: aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair air camper Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 08:10:19 -0800 (PST) >What type of info do you need? The corvair is a relitivly simple >engine, easy to work on and somewhat powerful. But from engine to >engine they can be worlds apart depending on how they are set up, >prop etc. I would be careful to check everything I could and would >think about dismantling the engine for inspection if you don't know >the history of the airplane and engine. This seems to be more >critical in experimental aircraft, as any one can do there own work >and a A+P never has to see it. (this goes on with certified aircraft >owners as well) This is not to say homebuilders are inferrior, but I >have met some people who take every shortcut they can to save >pennies, and hopefully it never bites them in the ass. So if the >airframe is in good shape, and the engines runs well it would >probably be OK. If you know the history of the airplane that would >be a BIG help. As for flying the corvair BEWARE OF CARB ICE!! They >run fine but they will ice up pretty fast and loose > power. I make it a habbit to cycle the carb heat every 10 min or so >to make sure the carb is cleaned out. I read somewhere (William >Wynne I think) that you can run a corvair all day with carb heat on >and not hurt it, just not quite as much power. Good luck with your >potential purchase, and you will love the sound of a corvair on climb >out, it sounds like a cross of a radial and a 182. > Shad > >Malcolmbru(at)aol.com wrote: > I need lots of info on a corvair powered aircamper I am >this close to buying matronics is great i belong to the kit fox >forem also malcolm michigan > > > >--------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Charlies ribs
Date: Dec 10, 2006
I have a set and I belive they are western red cedar Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 7:27 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Charlies ribs Does anyone who bought ribs from Charlie Rubek recall the type of wood he used to make them? He told me once but I can't remember now if it was White Cedar or Western Red Cedar. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: corvair air camper
John, I had a great week on Perth in October, 2004. I flew in from Sydney, we had a heck of clear day, and for some reason the 737 flew relatively low. I got to follow the southern shore all the way around the southern edge of the continent, saw every detail of your beautiful country. Heading into Perth it looked like the first time I landed at Shannon airport in Ireland. Just gorgeous. Good luck with the Piet, and send us some aerial photos when it's done! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2006
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 10, 2006
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
In a message dated 12/10/2006 9:38:42 PM Central Standard Time, enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net writes: I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA. Gene, A big Congratulations on your milestone !! Occasions like this, gives everyone on the list cause to celebrate !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 10, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Good one Gene! Keep us posted. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hubbard" <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! >I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its > airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack > Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I > built it. > > First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). > > Gene Hubbard > San Diego, CA. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grega GN-1 Aircamper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: "Garrahy, Paul" <Paul.Garrahy(at)community.nsw.gov.au>
Hi, I am currently looking at purchasing a Grega GN-1 Aircamper that is for sale in Australia. Whilst I understand it is not a Pietenpol, can anyone advise if the Grega is a good, safe flyer? Any particular handling/structual issues I should be aware of? Also, any particular c of g issues? Many thanks, Paul Garrahy _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Security Statement The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Disclaimer Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of NSW Department of Community Services. Except as required by law, NSW Department of Community Services does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of error, virus, interception, inference or interference. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 10, 2006
Gene, Congratulations!! She's a fine looking ship. Will she be making the trek to Brodhead in 2007? Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hubbard" <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! >I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its > airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack > Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I > built it. > > First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). > > Gene Hubbard > San Diego, CA. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: corvair air camper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Jeff, Did you catch the size of our Swan River? Some visitors have likened it to an inland sea. Great spot for sailing and other water sports. No sea planes though. Perth is famous for it's clear skies, not a cloud to be seen, especially in winter (June to August) where the temperatures range between 5 deg C and the low 20's and the air is cool and clear with light winds (when the storm fronts aren't blowing thru). Right now we're heading into summer when the winds can get quite strong. From the east in the morning, turning westerly in the afternoon. The hot temperatures, peaking in the low 40's (degC) in Feb / March make for interesting landings and take-(forever)offs. Best to stay at home in the pool or in an airconditioned room with a couple of stubbies of your favourite liquid amber watching cricket interspersed with the occasional nap. Have a great winter you guys!! (I'm not sure which is worse. A sweltering hot summer or a freezing cold winter.) John ---- Original Message ---- From: jboatri(at)emory.edu Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: corvair air camper Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:57:55 -0500 > > >John, > >I had a great week on Perth in October, 2004. I flew in from Sydney, >we had a heck of clear day, and for some reason the 737 flew >relatively low. I got to follow the southern shore all the way around > >the southern edge of the continent, saw every detail of your >beautiful country. Heading into Perth it looked like the first time >I landed at Shannon airport in Ireland. Just gorgeous. > >Good luck with the Piet, and send us some aerial photos when it's >done! > >Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Gene, Pretty plane. Thanks for sharing. You should be proud. What is the exact color and paint? (I have thought of a smilar green contrasting trim on a white or light gray plane.) [Mine is on LG, but needs further motor mount work for CG ~ my weight-- 270.] Congratulations, Tim -----Original Message----- >From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> >Sent: Dec 10, 2006 9:36 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! > >I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its >airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack >Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I >built it. > >First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). > >Gene Hubbard >San Diego, CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Way to go Gene;looking forward to hearing about your first flight! ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rcaprd(at)aol.com Sent: December 10, 2006 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! In a message dated 12/10/2006 9:38:42 PM Central Standard Time, enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net writes: I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA. Gene, A big Congratulations on your milestone !! Occasions like this, gives everyone on the list cause to celebrate !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Real nice lookin bird! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Hubbard Sent: December 10, 2006 10:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Charlies ribs
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Hi Dick, I think Charlie use to call it Port Orford (not sure of the spelling) Cedar. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil Sent: 12/10/2006 7:29:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Charlies ribs Does anyone who bought ribs from Charlie Rubek recall the type of wood he used to make them? He told me once but I can't remember now if it was White Cedar or Western Red Cedar. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Grega GN-1 Aircamper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Hi Paul, >From my limited experience flying Piets and GN-1s, there is more difference from plane to plane than from GN-1 to Piet. Weight is the big issue with most GN-1s and Piets on the used market. Think real hard about any over 700 lbs. Skip > [Original Message] > I am currently looking at purchasing a Grega GN-1 Aircamper that is for > sale in Australia. Whilst I understand it is not a Pietenpol, can anyone > advise if the Grega is a good, safe flyer? Any particular > handling/structual issues I should be aware of? Also, any particular c > of g issues? > Many thanks, > Paul Garrahy > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Grega GN-1 Aircamper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Paul The Grega is a fine machine. The main differences between it and the original are Grega used some J-3 fittings and assemblies to make construction faster. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garrahy, Paul" <Paul.Garrahy(at)community.nsw.gov.au> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Aircamper Hi, I am currently looking at purchasing a Grega GN-1 Aircamper that is for sale in Australia. Whilst I understand it is not a Pietenpol, can anyone advise if the Grega is a good, safe flyer? Any particular handling/structual issues I should be aware of? Also, any particular c of g issues? Many thanks, Paul Garrahy _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Security Statement The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Disclaimer Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of NSW Department of Community Services. Except as required by law, NSW Department of Community Services does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of error, virus, interception, inference or interference. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Gene,=0A =0ACongratulations in your accomplishment.=0A =0AMike=0A=0A=0A---- - Original Message ----=0AFrom: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>=0ATo : pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 8:36:02 PM =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !=0A=0A =0AI started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its =0Aairwort hiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack =0APhillips i n particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I =0Abuilt it. =0A =0AFirst flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year).=0A=0AGen e Hubbard=0ASan Diego, CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Grega GN-1 Aircamper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
The GN-1 is a sturdier airplane (at the expense of escess weight)... an overbuilt version of an already overbuilt airplane ;) It uses parts from J-3, Aeronca Champs, Taylorcrafts, etc. Parts that back in the 70's were easy to get. Not so much now. It does not have the ability to move the wing fore/aft for balance and they are typically tail heavy if built to plans. Mine will weigh in around 780lb I think, but a bit of that extra weight is due to me using a Corvair (235lb) instead of an A-65 (185lb) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Aircamper > > Paul > The Grega is a fine machine. The main differences between it and the > original are Grega used some J-3 fittings and assemblies to make > construction faster. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Garrahy, Paul" <Paul.Garrahy(at)community.nsw.gov.au> > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:21 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Aircamper > > > > > Hi, > > I am currently looking at purchasing a Grega GN-1 Aircamper that is for > sale in Australia. Whilst I understand it is not a Pietenpol, can anyone > advise if the Grega is a good, safe flyer? Any particular > handling/structual issues I should be aware of? Also, any particular c > of g issues? > > Many thanks, > > Paul Garrahy > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > Security Statement > > The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and > confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not > the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, reproduction, > distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. > Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication are not > waived or lost by reason of mistaken delivery to you. If you have received > this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission > and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. > > > Disclaimer > > Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual > sender, > except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of NSW > Department of Community Services. Except as required by law, NSW Department > of Community Services does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the > integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the > communication > is free of error, virus, interception, inference or interference. > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grega GN-1 Aircamper
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I also noticed that the way the control cables are strung is different.With the Pietenpol model the aileron control cables come in and cross at the back cockpit whereas the Grega model has them coming in at the front seat and not crossed.See pics in attachment.In the first three pics you see the cables coming straight down at the front cockpit and then they go through pullies to the Auronca type control.No cables in the rear cockpit except for the rudder cables going by on either side.In the last pics you see the cables cross and go to the control attachment in the back cockpit.The cables cross inside the wing at the front leading edge on the Grega model.In the last pic you see another set up that uses the struts to run the cables. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
In a message dated 12/10/2006 10:38:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net writes: I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard Congratulations, Gene. Times like this makes everyone smile. Beautiful job. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pietflyr" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Beautiful, Gene! Let us know how she flies. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Hubbard Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Red cedar
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Dick-- from what I recall those ribs Charlie R. used to produce were made of red cedar. They even have a tinge of a reddish color to them--esp. w/ age. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 21GN
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Way to go, Gene Hubbard ! Excellent news. You did it, man !!! Looks like a great airport too---lots of open space to doodle around in. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: project for sale
From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 11, 2006
hey everyone one of our members (the IPA) has his aircamper project for sale here is the dope For sale pietenpol aircamper project fuselage 90% finished wing ribs done some piper j3 parts as used on the gn-1 aircamper and gn-1 plans tailwheel and spring 1200.00 for all firm 931-738-5776 middle tennesse james cash thanks ben -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p839#80839 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corvair valve covers
I am wondering if the Corvair "Aircamper" valve covers are still available. I called the number listed on : http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html. , but it was disconnected. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. --------------------------------- Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Way to go Gene! (guess it's all in the "Genes".) Gene N502R Tennessee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Charlies ribs
western red cedar Del Dick Navratil wrote: Does anyone who bought ribs from Charlie Rubek recall the type of wood he used to make them? He told me once but I can't remember now if it was White Cedar or Western Red Cedar. Dick N. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
CONGRADULATIONS! You will love the way it flies. I think a piet is the easiest airplane I have ever flown, so enjoy, enjoy, enjoy! Shad --------------------------------- Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Gene, Congratulations on the conclusion of a long journey!!! I'm sure the road was long, twisting, and arduous, but very enjoyable at the same time. Beautiful airplane!!! Now relax and have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: 21 GN
Date: Dec 11, 2006

November 27, 2006 - December 11, 2006

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fm