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December 11, 2006 - December 23, 2006

Congrats Gene You have the right attitude also. Now that it's done, stand back and enjoy and consider what you did and think about all the parts and what not be quite right before the first flight, then go safely and enjoy. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Charlies ribs
OK, first the disclaimer that I am only agreeing with Mike Cuy based solely on my own memory. Yes, I believe Charlie used Red Cedar for his ribs. By this I am certain he meant WESTERN Red Cedar, which is a very nice, uniform clear-grained wood, very easy to work, with natural rot resistance. It's one of my favorite woods to work with. It is not as strong as Sitka Spruce, but given that the Pietenpol ribs, like most of the rest of the airframe, are over-designed, this is not a problem. Western Red Cedar is not to be confused with EASTERN Red Cedar, which is very different critter. E. R. Cedar is typically full of dozens of little, tiny knots, rarely has straight grain, and has wierd distributiuon of sap and heartwood. It is the Cedar typically used for moth-repellent cedar chests and closets because it has the characteristic smell that repels moths & because the grain is very attractive. I also use E.R cedar oil as a cover scent when I'm deer hunting - works great! Kip Gardner (working on making the Cadillac of rib jigs) -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: project for sale
From: Amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Ben, I called the number listed as I am very interested. Please pass that interest along to the owner in addition yo my email info. Send return contact to amsafetyc(at)aol.com Thanks John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "antique airplane assoc." <benjaminltaylor(at)yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 11:21:33 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: project for sale hey everyone one of our members (the IPA) has his aircamper project for sale here is the dope For sale pietenpol aircamper project fuselage 90% finished wing ribs done some piper j3 parts as used on the gn-1 aircamper and gn-1 plans tailwheel and spring 1200.00 for all firm 931-738-5776 middle tennesse james cash thanks ben -------- ben taylor Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p839#80839 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Congrats Gene!!! Guys like you inspire guys like US! Al Lyscars Portland, Maine Working the GN-1 rib jig this winter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Hubbard" <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! > I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its > airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack > Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I > built it. > > First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). > > Gene Hubbard > San Diego, CA. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Gene, Great job!!!! Send me an email when you take to the air and I will come down and film it for you. Carl will probably want to come as well. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Doug B. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Hubbard<mailto:enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 7:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate ! I started building NX421GN about 7 1/2 years ago. It got its airworthiness certificate today! Thanks to those (Mike Cuy and Jack Phillips in particular) who made suggestions that changed the way I built it. First flight when it's good and ready (but probably this year). Gene Hubbard San Diego, CA. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Ribs continued
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Thanks all to the rib question. Work on my 2nd Piet is winding down and I don't have any projects left that I can work on here at home now. The wings are getting the finishing touches before covering and controlls are hooked up. I was thinking of building a boat next but then got to thinking of a flying boat. So I have decided to build a Volmer VJ 22 next. I need something enclosed to fly in the winter months. You can also put skiis on the VJ22. The only problem is the list for Volmer builders is not very active and not so good for support and the plans are massive. Slicing up wing cap strips and building wing ribs is a good project for long Minnesota nights. Only 8 hrs of daylight now. Western Red Cedar is very common here and I've got a bunch in the shop anyway. White cedar is used a lot in boatbuilding for planking. Red it is. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wing Ribs
Hi Group and Gene, I just wanted to send my congradulations to Gene also on getting his airworthniess certificate out of the way! I would like to let everyone know that possibly next week or so I will be starting my wing ribs down in my basement. I was wondering if anyone might have few tips for me? The glue I am using is FASCO #110. its the paste version in case some of you don't anything about it! I plan on setting up 2 jigs! This will keep me busy while the waiting game rolls on for robb to get his garage heated. the temp in my basement is at least 50 degrees or so. I will be updating our progress at my website www.ben-aircamper.4t.com. take Care, Ben Ramler ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Flying Music (slightly OT)
Date: Dec 11, 2006
Thanks... the Gooney Bird song was especially great! :) -M Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.net Webmaster, OV-10 Bronco Association http://www.ov-10bronco.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Flying Music (slightly OT) > > Back in the early 70's, my Dad had a couple record albums by a > folksinger named Oscar Brand. These 2 records were all flying songs, > one Lp dedicated to general aviation! The songs are clean, humorous, > and, darn it, quite amusing. I absconded with these records when I > moved out a long long time ago, and recently dug them out. Near as I > can tell these can't be purchased on a current release. I have found a > few Oscar Brand compilation CD's, but it seems impossible to get all > the airplane songs. > > SO.....I took the well played LP and dubbed in into my computer and > made mp3's out of the tracks and uploaded them to my web server several > months ago. Completely forgot about them till just now, and it dawned > on me...that ya'll might enjoy giving them a listen. That said: > > http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/ > > Should take you to a file directory of mp3's. If you've got a decent > internet connection you should be able to grab the songs in a few > minutes. They're all pretty much light plane theme songs, and general > flying songs that would apply to anyone flying anything in general > aviation. I even burned the tracks to CD to play in the car, which > drives th' wife nuts. > > And to make the post relevant, decided to go with long fuse, 'Vair > power, 3 piece wing, and hopefully get started building ribs once we > get past the holidays! Oh..and I have lots of tools on my letter to > Santa! > > Tim in Bovey > > == > You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! > == > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 11, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Ribs continued
I like WRC a lot. I would say it's my favourite wood for pretty much everything. It carves wonderfully and makes mellow flutes. I had thought of using it for my spars but to get the same strength as 1" Spruce or Hemlock would require 1 1/2" in Cedar. The weight would be the same at that width as well. Unfortunately the reception to that was decidedly cool from the local inspection people even though I have all the pertinent Forestry charts to back up my claims. And then there's the changes that would have to be made to accomodate that extra width. This means that if you use the 1/2" X 1/4" dimensions for rib caps, the strength will be approximately 2/3 that of the same size spruce. Since some knowledgable people seem to think that 1/4" X 1/4" caps are strong enough then full size in WRC should be fine as that would fall half way between the two. Clif, in the land of Tall Cedars PS, I have some 800 year old cedar drying in my woodpile as we speak. :-) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs continued Western Red Cedar is very common here and I've got a bunch in the shop anyway. White cedar is used a lot in boatbuilding for planking. Red it is. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Ribs continued
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Dick: Check out ebay right now item number: 230061439673 A heck of a deal on a VJ22 fuselage on the gear in Durham NC Should be fairly easy transport, even if you have to tow it by the tail spring. and no ones bid on it yet I know of at least one flying with a corvair engine so it could be finished for a reasonable figure. michael silvius scarborough, maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs continued Thanks all to the rib question. Work on my 2nd Piet is winding down and I don't have any projects left that I can work on here at home now. The wings are getting the finishing touches before covering and controlls are hooked up. I was thinking of building a boat next but then got to thinking of a flying boat. So I have decided to build a Volmer VJ 22 next. I need something enclosed to fly in the winter months. You can also put skiis on the VJ22. The only problem is the list for Volmer builders is not very active and not so good for support and the plans are massive. Slicing up wing cap strips and building wing ribs is a good project for long Minnesota nights. Only 8 hrs of daylight now. Western Red Cedar is very common here and I've got a bunch in the shop anyway. White cedar is used a lot in boatbuilding for planking. Red it is. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Hi Ben..One tip most builders will give you on wing ribs is to use only one rib jig. If you build two and there's even a small variation between them you will have two different sets of ribs. Use the extra time that you would need to build the extra jig to build a few ribs. Build one rib per day. At first it seems like you will never get done but at the end of a month, Viola, you have a finished stack of ribs. Then, keep your rib jig. If you ever break a rib you will be able to make an exact replacement. My second tip is read Tony Bingelis' section on wood wing ribs in "The Sportplane Builder" . Take your time and enjoy it. Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Ramler<mailto:ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs > Hi Group and Gene, I just wanted to send my congradulations to Gene also on getting his airworthniess certificate out of the way! I would like to let everyone know that possibly next week or so I will be starting my wing ribs down in my basement. I was wondering if anyone might have few tips for me? The glue I am using is FASCO #110. its the paste version in case some of you don't anything about it! I plan on setting up 2 jigs! This will keep me busy while the waiting game rolls on for robb to get his garage heated. the temp in my basement is at least 50 degrees or so. I will be updating our progress at my website www.ben-aircamper.4t.com<http://www.ben-aircamper.4t.com/>. take Care, Ben Ramler www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.kitlog.com<http://www.kitlog.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair valve covers
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Michael, There seems the area code has changed, try: Miller, Todd R 504 G St Charles City, IA 50616-3017 (641) 228-5682 I got mine 2 years ago, at that time Todd Miller was still "in business" Hans Michael Groah To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: Corvair valve covers 12/11/2006 04:00 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com I am wondering if the Corvair "Aircamper" valve covers are still available. I called the number listed on : http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html. , but it was disconnected. Thanks in advance for any help you can give. Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on Yahoo! Answers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Victory over exploding airplane
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Everything cleaned up nicely and I did almost all the gusseting before moving it. http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietfuse4.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Victory over exploding airplane
VERY nice! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair valve covers
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Michael; You may have to try US Postal Service mail to Todd Miller to get yourself some valve covers, but I'm sure he's still in the business. When I got mine he also had some "seconds" that had casting flaws, at reduced cost. FWIW, using "People Search" whitepages, I got a different phone number for Todd that you might try: (641) 228-5682 Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes enter the Microsoft Office Live ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Congratulations Gene!! On ribs, use the Arrow JT-21 stapler. I prefurred Sears stapels. they had a sharp point. The Arrow stapels had more of a chissel point. After stapling gussets on one side, I found that I could pop the rib out of the jig, flip it and staple gussets on the other side. I found no need for the rib to cure in the jig.before removing it. It didn't deform. I made 3 ribs in one day back then. Staples can be removed with a stake knife . Make an extra rib to hang on the wall of your hangar..or garage..or your bedroom, in full view above the head board just in case you need to spice things up a little. The ribs are not a drudgery at all. I found them quite fun. Leon S. In Ks. Longing for sprig. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Date: Dec 12, 2006
You can also use an ordinary office stapler. You don't even have to bang on it. Just open the stapler all the way 180 degrees or better yet remove the base. Then place the stapler right down on the gusset and press the staple in. Believe or not it also works pushing the staple through 1/8" birch plywood for the fuselage gussets. Also it's not necessary to remove the staples. their only function is to hold the gusset in place until the glue sets. Then when the part is varnished the staple will not rust. Roman Bukolt NX88XN (reserved) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs > > Congratulations Gene!! On ribs, use the Arrow JT-21 stapler. I prefurred > Sears stapels. they had a sharp point. The Arrow stapels had more of a > chissel point. After stapling gussets on one side, I found that I could > pop the rib out of the jig, flip it and staple gussets on the other > side. I found no need for the rib to cure in the jig.before removing it. > It didn't deform. I made 3 ribs in one day back then. Staples can be > removed with a stake knife . Make an extra rib to hang on the wall of > your hangar..or garage..or your bedroom, in full view above the head > board just in case you need to spice things up a little. The ribs are > not a drudgery at all. I found them quite fun. Leon S. In Ks. Longing > for sprig. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and doers! I'm proud to be a member. Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 12, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I have considered putting a bubble on for protection.One that can slide back and forth but I feel it would detract from the old time looks of the plane.It would allow for all weather flight.I will be putting a piece of lexan over the hole for the front cockpit;painting it down both sides and leaving the middle unpainted so I can see the instruments,with a quick connect on it for the battery hook up for charge etc.Even that bothers me somewhat because it will detract from it's old time looks.My AME assures me it won't look too bad and it will stop the wind somewhat from coming in at my legs.Still mulling over things. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: December 12, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and doers! I'm proud to be a member. Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Cold weather head gear
Ain't got that frosty problem here in sunny FL, but recently bought via Airspruce a leather fitted retro look Red Baron cap that incorporates the Dave Clarks. Works great. They make one with a fleece lining. Was $70 for the unlined and $75 for the lined version. Use retro-goggles from Harley Davidson dealer-$35, leather flight jacket complete the get-up. At 4000' gets kinda nippy on colder mornings but not 30F. Good luck with staying thawed, or wait it out until spring and there's always the sunny south for the winter. Sure don't miss AK this time of year. Gordon Bowen N-1033B based Palatka FL Original Message: ----------------- From: Gene & Tammy zharvey(at)bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:46:28 -0600 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and doers! I'm proud to be a member. Gene N502R -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Sky Scout builders
Date: Dec 12, 2006
I'm knew to this group, and I'm wondering if there are any Sky Scout builders on line? Terry Hall Ada, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Gordon, Spent most of my life in Alaska (1960 to 1985 full time and up until this year half time as a captain for Alaska Clean Seas in the Arctic.) so I'm use to being out in the cold but this humidity in the south is killling me. I have looked at the hats in Airspruce but don't own a set of David Clarks and don't want to spend the money to get a set. I was hoping someone may have made a helmet and still had the pattern. I agree on the motor cycle goggles. They look great! Thanks Gene N502R ----- > ----------------- >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2006
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Cold weather head gear
I wear a plain leather helmet (not fleece lined) and a thin ski/snowmobiling mask under the helmet. The lower portion of the mask can be stretched down below my chin, or pulled up over my nose so everything but my eyes are covered, and my goggles take care of that. When I was getting ready to fly my Piet from Indiana to Texas in the winter, I started looking for wool clothes on Ebay. I found a bunch of new heavy wool surplus army shirts selling for $3 or so. They itch like crazy so you have to have something under them, but they are really warm! I only bought one, and I wear it all the time, in the Piet or just working out in the cold. I intend to buy 4-5 more as soon as I take the time to find them on Ebay. For $6 or so shipped, you can beat them. Steve Ruse Norman, OK > Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How > did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you > rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on > my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). > If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on > how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? > When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. > Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and > doers! I'm proud to be a member. > Gene > N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2006
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers
I just wrote to the fella who was selling them, and the reply I received a week or so ago states: "I have stopped making the Air Camper valve covers. The foundry that was casting them for me found out they were going on airplanes and refused to make anymore" So, there ya go. Gonna be a long time till I need any, but really wanted a pair! Tim in Bovey "I am wondering if the Corvair "Aircamper" valve covers are still available. I called the number listed on : http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html. , but it was disconnected. Thanks in advance for any help you can give." == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Click and laugh
_Document sans nom_ (http://pageperso.aol.fr/marcbrecy/deanmartin.html) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Ben, I'm building an Aircamper here in Maine. Just starting with ribs this winter. Be careful with "paste-type" epoxies. You'll want the glue to flow into the joint. Also, the pot life on the Fasco is pretty short. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs > > Hi Group and Gene, > > I just wanted to send my congradulations to Gene also on getting his airworthniess certificate out of the way! I would like to let everyone know that possibly next week or so I will be starting my wing ribs down in my basement. I was wondering if anyone might have few tips for me? The glue I am using is FASCO #110. its the paste version in case some of you don't anything about it! I plan on setting up 2 jigs! This will keep me busy while the waiting game rolls on for robb to get his garage heated. the temp in my basement is at least 50 degrees or so. I will be updating our progress at my website www.ben-aircamper.4t.com. > > > take Care, > > > Ben Ramler > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers
In a message dated 12/12/2006 6:12:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com writes: I just wrote to the fella who was selling them, and the reply I received a week or so ago states: "I have stopped making the Air Camper valve covers. The foundry that was casting them for me found out they were going on airplanes and refused to make anymore" So, there ya go. Gonna be a long time till I need any, but really wanted a pair! Tim in Bovey This is exactly why, when I farm out any work, I lie and tell them it is for something other than an aircraft or that the part will be used on a static display. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers
Date: Dec 12, 2006
wow... I'm glad I got mine when I did! ----- Original Message ----- From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers In a message dated 12/12/2006 6:12:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com writes: I just wrote to the fella who was selling them, and the reply I received a week or so ago states: "I have stopped making the Air Camper valve covers. The foundry that was casting them for me found out they were going on airplanes and refused to make anymore" So, there ya go. Gonna be a long time till I need any, but really wanted a pair! Tim in Bovey This is exactly why, when I farm out any work, I lie and tell them it is for something other than an aircraft or that the part will be used on a static display. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
----- Original Message ---- From: Alan Lyscars <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:18:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs Ben, I'm building an Aircamper here in Maine. Just starting with ribs this winter. Be careful with "paste-type" epoxies. You'll want the glue to flow into the joint. Also, the pot life on the Fasco is pretty short. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs > > Hi Group and Gene, > > I just wanted to send my congradulations to Gene also on getting his airworthniess certificate out of the way! I would like to let everyone know that possibly next week or so I will be starting my wing ribs down in my basement. I was wondering if anyone might have few tips for me? The glue I am using is FASCO #110. its the paste version in case some of you don't anything about it! I plan on setting up 2 jigs! This will keep me busy while the waiting game rolls on for robb to get his garage heated. the temp in my basement is at least 50 degrees or so. I will be updating our progress at my website www.ben-aircamper.4t.com. > > > take Care, > > > Ben Ramler > > Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Group and Leon S., will the arrow power shot stapler work? and the staples I have is arrow T50 staples. they are 5/16". ----- Original Message ---- From: Leon Stefan <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:40:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs Congratulations Gene!! On ribs, use the Arrow JT-21 stapler. I prefurred Sears stapels. they had a sharp point. The Arrow stapels had more of a chissel point. After stapling gussets on one side, I found that I could pop the rib out of the jig, flip it and staple gussets on the other side. I found no need for the rib to cure in the jig.before removing it. It didn't deform. I made 3 ribs in one day back then. Staples can be removed with a stake knife . Make an extra rib to hang on the wall of your hangar..or garage..or your bedroom, in full view above the head board just in case you need to spice things up a little. The ribs are not a drudgery at all. I found them quite fun. Leon S. In Ks. Longing for sprig. Cheap talk? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2006
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Group, so once everything has dried I can remove the staples? this is good info I am getting. So I understand this Once the gussets are stapled in place I can go ahead and remove the rib from jig and do another? I'm just checking to make sure I understand. Does hurt anything If I leave the staples in? Brain likes good info. take care, Ben ----- Original Message ---- From: Leon Stefan <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:40:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs Congratulations Gene!! On ribs, use the Arrow JT-21 stapler. I prefurred Sears stapels. they had a sharp point. The Arrow stapels had more of a chissel point. After stapling gussets on one side, I found that I could pop the rib out of the jig, flip it and staple gussets on the other side. I found no need for the rib to cure in the jig.before removing it. It didn't deform. I made 3 ribs in one day back then. Staples can be removed with a stake knife . Make an extra rib to hang on the wall of your hangar..or garage..or your bedroom, in full view above the head board just in case you need to spice things up a little. The ribs are not a drudgery at all. I found them quite fun. Leon S. In Ks. Longing for sprig. Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
In a message dated 12/12/2006 7:50:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com writes: Group, so once everything has dried I can remove the staples? this is good info I am getting. So I understand this Once the gussets are stapled in place I can go ahead and remove the rib from jig and do another? I'm just checking to make sure I understand. Does hurt anything If I leave the staples in? Brain likes good info. take care, Ben Ben, One great tip Mike Cuy gave me years ago: Put "cling"-type wrap down over your jig before each you start each rib.This keeps the rib from sticking to the jig, and the wrap peels right off the rib itself...even after the glue is dry. Works super good. I got industrial sized roll at Sam's club, like they use at deli or cafeterias. Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NX421GN Has Airworthiness Certificate !
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Very nice job! Green is great. Talk to as many Pietenpol/GN-1 pilots as you can about flying it before you actually do, no sweat though! Good Luck! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81167#81167 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Ribs
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Ben I tend to like things the easy way. I bought a reject 36"x80 hollow core door from Menards for $5. I traced lines for 4 ribs at a time on one side of the door. After I was done building ribe, I laid out the tail section on the other side. For ribs, I laid wax paper under all glue areas. To start with, I used a stapler, but pulling staples is a pain. I bought a box of thumb tacks with the plastic ends. Easy to put in and easy to take out. This is assuming you are using T-88 and don't need the pressure that Recorsinol requires. As far as small inconsistancies from 4 moulds, I clamp them all together in the end and run the belt sander over the whole lot. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Ramler" <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs Group, so once everything has dried I can remove the staples? this is good info I am getting. So I understand this Once the gussets are stapled in place I can go ahead and remove the rib from jig and do another? I'm just checking to make sure I understand. Does hurt anything If I leave the staples in? Brain likes good info. take care, Ben ----- Original Message ---- From: Leon Stefan <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:40:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Ribs Congratulations Gene!! On ribs, use the Arrow JT-21 stapler. I prefurred Sears stapels. they had a sharp point. The Arrow stapels had more of a chissel point. After stapling gussets on one side, I found that I could pop the rib out of the jig, flip it and staple gussets on the other side. I found no need for the rib to cure in the jig.before removing it. It didn't deform. I made 3 ribs in one day back then. Staples can be removed with a stake knife . Make an extra rib to hang on the wall of your hangar..or garage..or your bedroom, in full view above the head board just in case you need to spice things up a little. The ribs are not a drudgery at all. I found them quite fun. Leon S. In Ks. Longing for sprig. Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2006
I wear a WWII leather helmet I bought on ebay and goggles from aircraft spruce. I actually have 2 different helmets. One has a brow flap and the other doesn't. Without the flap my forehead gets numb down into the forties. If you are looking for one make sure it has that flap, it makes a huge difference. With a few layers underneath, the good helmet, goggles and a thick lined leather coat with a big flip up collar I'm good down into the low 30's. Flew off of the snow a few days ago! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81171#81171 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Gene One good addition is a hat liner for a cowboy hat to go under your helmet. You should be able to find them in a western wear store. They are Thinsulate. I wore mine under the hunting hat, kept nice and warm. Also, there are hand and foot warmer packs you can get, they are one time use, about $1 pair. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and doers! I'm proud to be a member. Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN" <twinboom(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Gene, Check out this link. It is in the UK, but it sure looks like nice equipment.... http://www.flyingjacket.com/> DB ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy<mailto:zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and doers! I'm proud to be a member. Gene N502R www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Maybe Pat Panzerra will trade you his "Air Camper" ones from his beautiful red show engine for another nice pair. I don't think he's going to put that on a Piet. Hmmm... I wrote that mostly in jest but, hey, you never know??? Eric >From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers >Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:09:44 -0800 (PST) > > > >I just wrote to the fella who was selling them, and the reply I >received a week or so ago states: > >"I have stopped making the Air Camper valve covers. The foundry that >was casting them for me found out they were going on airplanes and >refused to make anymore" > >So, there ya go. Gonna be a long time till I need any, but really >wanted a pair! > >Tim in Bovey > >"I am wondering if the Corvair "Aircamper" valve covers are still >available. I called the number listed on : >http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html. , but it was disconnected. > > Thanks in advance for any help you can give." > >== >You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! >== > > >Have a burning question? >Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: N174LS aircamper clarance Solmon watyertown Wisconsin
any body know anything about this Gregg 1 built in 1994 and inspected by ANP jim stark 0r FAA rep Stephen Moe?? This peat ended up in Michigan and is now for sale. Irwin Davis may know something about this because he sold it to the present owner. you can send me a message off line if you want. Malcolm Brubaker current kit fox pilot and potential piet owner ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ohio Pietenpol Fly-in
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 12, 2006
I talked to Forrest Barber a few days ago about Barber Airport and the EAA chapter hosting a Pietenpol Fly-in. He said it could be arranged for the Pietenpol guys to have their own gathering but he suggested it may be better to piggyback with another fly-in. In the past they have hosted the Taylorcraft Fly-in (Barber Airport, which is in Alliance, Ohio is very rich in Taylorcraft history) and the Ohio Aeronca Aviators Fly-in. These have been two separate fly-ins, however this year they are combining them into one. Forrest suggested we make it the Taylorcraft/Aeronca/Pietenpol Fly-in. By doing this we can count on the EAA chapter's breakfast on Saturday and Sunday and the Friday evening meal. The dates they have set for the fly-in are the weekend of July 6,7, and 8, 2007. I know it is a way off but maybe mark it on the calendar. There are hotels in Alliance and there is plenty of space for primitive camping on the field for both aircraft and rv's. Frank Pavliga hangars his Sky Gypsy Pietenpol there and I will have mine there. I'm sure with some arm twisting we could get others. Mike Cuy and Will Graff aren't too far. Shad Bell is within an hour and a half or so. It would be cool to have these guys because we could have Ford, Corvair, and Continental represented. We could even try to organize some type of forum/meeting if there is interest. Check out these websites; http://www.barberaircraft.com/ http://www.oaafly-in.com/ http://www.taylorcraft.org/ Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81187#81187 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 12, 2006
check out http://www.majorsurplusandsurvival.com/ go to products and search for clothing. then do search for goggles they have about 6 diferent kinds. somewhere in their catalog I have seen leather flying helmets as well though cant see to find any right now. cold weather face protection http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=0807551&Category_Code=149 russian flying goggles: http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=0877971&Category_Code=23 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Charlies ribs
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Dick, All the replys for red Cedar got me wondering, so I looked up my notes. At the 1992 Brodhead Piet fly-in Charlie gave a demo on his rib building, during which he had the biggest guy in the crowd stand on one of his ribs, held in a special jig, and it didn't break! Anyway from my notes of July 31, 1992, Charlie said the wood he used is Port Orford Cedar. I Goolged Port Orford Cedar. http://www.mastergardenproducts.com/portorfordcedar.htm It is one of the White Cedars and lists one of the uses as aircraft plywood. Also said it may have a slight red color to it. Also said the ginger smell it gives off may cause kidney problems, so be carful. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil Does anyone who bought ribs from Charlie Rubek recall the type of wood he used to make them? He told me once but I can't remember now if it was White Cedar or Western Red Cedar. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ohio Pietenpol Fly-in
Hi Don, Everyone, OK, that's Forrest's opinion & is grist for the mill. Keep in mind that the Taylorcraft event is Forrest's baby, with EAA 82 involved only in the capacity of serving breakfast. What happens at that event is completely under Forrest's control, which has positives and negatives. EAA 82's relationship with Forrest is generally good, but he often has agendas for what he does at the airport that can be different from what the chapter is trying to achieve. I would suggest that we talk directly to EAA 82 (easy enough, since I'm a member & past Prez, although personal events have kept me uninvolved for the past few months & that's about to change). We (EAA 82) had our initial Corvair "Wings & Wheels" event this year & the timing was bad - it's often very stormy in early June, and the weather was awful this year. The only Corvair-powered plane that made it was William Wynne'sa representative, although we did have a turnout of about 30 cars, including a totally cool, beautifully restored Corvair-powered Porsch ("PorschAir" ?). We are now starting to plan the event for this coming year. If Forrest & Brian Matz (Prez of Ohio Aeronca Aviators) are combining the Aeronca & T-Craft events this year, that opens up an August slot at the airport for the Corvair event & I think that might be a better one to combine with any Pietenpol event that might happen because of the historical connection. Weather in mid August is usually beautiful, so we'd have a better turnout, especially if we included all of the Piets that are in the reguion. I'll bring this up with the Chapter leadership at our Christmas party this weekend & get back to the list. Regards, Kip Gardner > >I talked to Forrest Barber a few days ago about Barber Airport and >the EAA chapter hosting a Pietenpol Fly-in. He said it could be >arranged for the Pietenpol guys to have their own gathering but he >suggested it may be better to piggyback with another fly-in. In the >past they have hosted the Taylorcraft Fly-in (Barber Airport, which >is in Alliance, Ohio is very rich in Taylorcraft history) and the >Ohio Aeronca Aviators Fly-in. These have been two separate fly-ins, >however this year they are combining them into one. Forrest >suggested we make it the Taylorcraft/Aeronca/Pietenpol Fly-in. By >doing this we can count on the EAA chapter's breakfast on Saturday >and Sunday and the Friday evening meal. The dates they have set for >the fly-in are the weekend of July 6,7, and 8, 2007. I know it is a >way off but maybe mark it on the calendar. There are hotels in >Alliance and there is plenty of space for primitive camping on the >field for both aircraft and rv's. Frank Pavliga hanga! > rs his Sky Gypsy Pietenpol there and I will have mine there. I'm >sure with some arm twisting we could get others. Mike Cuy and Will >Graff aren't too far. Shad Bell is within an hour and a half or so. >It would be cool to have these guys because we could have Ford, >Corvair, and Continental represented. We could even try to organize >some type of forum/meeting if there is interest. Check out these >websites; > >http://www.barberaircraft.com/ >http://www.oaafly-in.com/ >http://www.taylorcraft.org/ > >Don Emch >NX899DE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81187#81187 > > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Gene, EAA Sport Pilot & Light-Sport Aircraft December 2006 page 50, one page before the picture of Han's pretty Piet. Article about using a hardhat liner from welding supply houses about $7.00. Cut holes for the headset about 1" smaller then the headset earmuffs. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers
Ask him if he will sell the casting pattern. That belongs to him even if the foundry made it. Del Tim Verthein wrote: I just wrote to the fella who was selling them, and the reply I received a week or so ago states: "I have stopped making the Air Camper valve covers. The foundry that was casting them for me found out they were going on airplanes and refused to make anymore" So, there ya go. Gonna be a long time till I need any, but really wanted a pair! Tim in Bovey "I am wondering if the Corvair "Aircamper" valve covers are still available. I called the number listed on : http://users.aol.com/bpabpa7315/tm.html. , but it was disconnected. Thanks in advance for any help you can give." == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Merry Christmas
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Jim M. and others: Every day is a happy holiday when you're a member of the Pietenpol e-mail discussion group so I'm going to post (even though it is a bit early) the sometimes politically incorrect (but I really don't give a rip) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. (even if you don't believe in Santy Claus) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Mike, The same to you and every one else. "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" For my politically / cultural sensitive friends - Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. By accepting these greetings, you are accepting the aforementioned terms as stated. This greeting is not subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself/himself/ others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher. For all my other Friends - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Hans "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@na To sa.gov> Sent by: cc owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matron Subject ics.com Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas 12/13/2006 09:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Jim M. and others: Every day is a happy holiday when you're a member of the Pietenpol e-mail discussion group so I'm going to post (even though it is a bit early) the sometimes politically incorrect (but I really don't give a rip) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. (even if you don't believe in Santy Claus) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)can.rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Hello List, I regularly fly in cold weather with my Piet up here in Canada. I've experimented with lots of headgear. And I can assure you, this will work as it's been tested to -14C or 6F. A snowmobile style balaclava. Not the sewn wool ones, but the polyester fabric. They usually have flaps on both the front and back that go into your coat. This insulates your neck, and they are thin enough on top for another layer. They also will wick away the moisture to your next layer. Then on top a work wear type aviator style cap. These are made with a heavy cotton duck outer shell, and are lined with insulating polyester and then smooth fabric lined. If you want to use a headset. Cut out holes on each side just a wee bit smaller than the headset seals. The idea is for the headset to kind a snap in at the headset seal cut-outs. When I made mine I had piping sewn in to stiffen up the shape of the hole and make better sealing. The balaclava underneath fits tight enough that the headset still works to keep things quiet. Ant other system that I have tried. Including a hardhat liner instead of the bella clave were inefficient. The multiple layers around the ear section allowed noise to come in. The specific aviator cap work wear item is made by Richelieu Sportwear here in Winnipeg MB. Usually retails for less than $20.00 CDN. If you cannot find one locally I can send you one. The snowmobile bella clava is available from snowmobile specialty shops. Often they will have a double layer in the area that wouldn't be covered by a helmet. Some will also have a flap that covers the nose and mouth. With one of these models, after goggles are put on there is no exposed skin. My Piet has a fairly large windscreen, so I find the coldest part was the back of the neck area. Must be a vortex of air blasting back there. That is why I chose a balaclava with the insulated flap (outside of the area a helmet would cover). If you cannot find one of those, a scarf would do the same thing. Just much clumsier to put on. The ice on the lakes here in Southern Manitoba is thick enough for ski flying operations now. So I have already been logging the hours. You can't beat the smooth air and excellent performance of the cold crisp air. Shawn Wolk C-FRAZ 1933 Pietenpol Aircamper Winnipeg, MB ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Merry Christmas
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
MERRY CHRISTMAS! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: December 13, 2006 11:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas Mike, The same to you and every one else. "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" For my politically / cultural sensitive friends - Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. By accepting these greetings, you are accepting the aforementioned terms as stated. This greeting is not subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself/himself/ others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher. For all my other Friends - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Hans "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy@na To sa.gov> Sent by: cc owner-pietenpol-l ist-server@matron Subject ics.com Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas 12/13/2006 09:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Jim M. and others: Every day is a happy holiday when you're a member of the Pietenpol e-mail discussion group so I'm going to post (even though it is a bit early) the sometimes politically incorrect (but I really don't give a rip) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. (even if you don't believe in Santy Claus) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Gene, You gotta miss AK. RE headgear, I have an older buddy that is good with electronics, he took a $100 full face shield motorcycle helmet and installed a speaker in one ear, then hooked up to his handheld with push to talk button. I've tried it, but have a hard time understanding air traffic with one speaker, could be just his wiring. Suspect the fleece lined cap from airspruce would work on any type of headset. DC's keep the ears warm and the wind battering you get in an open cockpit plane is minimized with the cap. Gotta a place in Homer AK for 9 mos. year. Piete flyers welcome to come visit. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: Gene & Tammy zharvey(at)bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:37:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Gordon, Spent most of my life in Alaska (1960 to 1985 full time and up until this year half time as a captain for Alaska Clean Seas in the Arctic.) so I'm use to being out in the cold but this humidity in the south is killling me. I have looked at the hats in Airspruce but don't own a set of David Clarks and don't want to spend the money to get a set. I was hoping someone may have made a helmet and still had the pattern. I agree on the motor cycle goggles. They look great! Thanks Gene N502R ----- > ----------------- >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: dslane(at)logical.net
Subject: aluminum heads
Hi Thanks to everyone who responded to my questiions about shock cords and cg. I would like to know if anyone has experience using a Thomas aluminum cylinder head on their A, re: tapping into the water jacket for the steam connection? If anyone has done this, did they thread it into the head or weld it? thanks Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Go to perroneleather.com. Many types of aviator flying helmets, both cloth and leather. JIM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <foto(at)alaska.net>
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
When I get my Piet done I will fly down from Anchorage! Rob Stapleton www.eaa42.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:59 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > Gene, > You gotta miss AK. RE headgear, I have an older buddy that is good > withelectronics, he took a $100 full face shield motorcycle helmet and > installed a speaker in one ear, then hooked up to his handheld with > push to > talk button. I've tried it, but have a hard time understanding air > trafficwith one speaker, could be just his wiring. Suspect the > fleece lined cap > from airspruce would work on any type of headset. DC's keep the > ears warm > and the wind battering you get in an open cockpit plane is > minimized with > the cap. > Gotta a place in Homer AK for 9 mos. year. Piete flyers welcome to > comevisit. > Gordon Bowen > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gene & Tammy zharvey(at)bellsouth.net > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:37:25 -0600 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > > > Gordon, > Spent most of my life in Alaska (1960 to 1985 full time and up > until this > year half time as a captain for Alaska Clean Seas in the Arctic.) > so I'm > use > to being out in the cold but this humidity in the south is killling > me. I > have looked at the hats in Airspruce but don't own a set of David > Clarksand > don't want to spend the money to get a set. I was hoping someone > may have > made a helmet and still had the pattern. I agree on the motor > cycle > goggles. They look great! > Thanks > Gene > N502R > ----- > ----------------- > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > -- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > _- ======================================== ================== > _- ======================================== ================== > _- ======================================== ================== > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Thanks Jim, great site with plenty to drool over. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com ; Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cold weather head gear Go to perroneleather.com. Many types of aviator flying helmets, both cloth and leather. JIM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Douglas, When I want first class stuff I'll sure go to this site. They sure have some nice leather items but for now more costly than I want to go. Thank you Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: DOUGLAS BLACKBURN To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Gene, Check out this link. It is in the UK, but it sure looks like nice equipment.... http://www.flyingjacket.com/ DB ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Wondering what everyone is doing for cold weather flying head gear? How did you make it or where did you buy it and how good (or bad) would you rate it? Last weekend was down into the 30's and it was a little cool on my head ( my windscreen is too short or my body is too tall). If you made your own head gear, how about some photos and instructions on how you did it? Can you use a head set with it? When I owned an Avid I followed the Avid list and thought it was great. Doesn't hold a candle to this group. What a great bunch of dreamers and doers! I'm proud to be a member. Gene N502R href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Michael, So much to check out! As I have more time I will go thru it all. Russian flying goggles would be great! Thanks Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > > check out http://www.majorsurplusandsurvival.com/ > > go to products and search for clothing. > then do search for goggles they have about 6 diferent kinds. > > somewhere in their catalog I have seen leather flying helmets as well > though > cant see to find any right now. > > cold weather face protection > http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=0807551&Category_Code=149 > > russian flying goggles: > http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=0877971&Category_Code=23 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Rob, Come on down, I'm in the phone book. My Piete will remain in FL, Homer only gives me about 5 mos./yr flying weather. Except this summer it was only about 3 mos. If it wasn't for the 22 gal tank and limited range, I'd think about flying the Alcan someday but probably if plane is to make it to AK it will be on a trailer. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: foto(at)alaska.net Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:27:12 -0900 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear When I get my Piet done I will fly down from Anchorage! Rob Stapleton www.eaa42.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:59 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > Gene, > You gotta miss AK. RE headgear, I have an older buddy that is good > withelectronics, he took a $100 full face shield motorcycle helmet and > installed a speaker in one ear, then hooked up to his handheld with > push to > talk button. I've tried it, but have a hard time understanding air > trafficwith one speaker, could be just his wiring. Suspect the > fleece lined cap > from airspruce would work on any type of headset. DC's keep the > ears warm > and the wind battering you get in an open cockpit plane is > minimized with > the cap. > Gotta a place in Homer AK for 9 mos. year. Piete flyers welcome to > comevisit. > Gordon Bowen > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gene & Tammy zharvey(at)bellsouth.net > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:37:25 -0600 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > > > Gordon, > Spent most of my life in Alaska (1960 to 1985 full time and up > until this > year half time as a captain for Alaska Clean Seas in the Arctic.) > so I'm > use > to being out in the cold but this humidity in the south is killling > me. I > have looked at the hats in Airspruce but don't own a set of David > Clarksand > don't want to spend the money to get a set. I was hoping someone > may have > made a helmet and still had the pattern. I agree on the motor > cycle > goggles. They look great! > Thanks > Gene > N502R > ----- > ----------------- > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > -- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > _- ======================================== ================== > _- ======================================== ================== > _- ======================================== ================== > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Charlies ribs
Density Compression Strength Tensile Spruce-----------------------31lb/ft-------------4500lb/in--------------- -----6700lb/in Port Orford Cedar--------29lb/ft-------------5800lb/in--------------------7300lb/in >From the chart at the bottom of this page; http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html Good stuff if you can get it. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Skip-Cinda Gadd To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Charlies ribs Dick, All the replys for red Cedar got me wondering, so I looked up my notes. At the 1992 Brodhead Piet fly-in Charlie gave a demo on his rib building, during which he had the biggest guy in the crowd stand on one of his ribs, held in a special jig, and it didn't break! Anyway from my notes of July 31, 1992, Charlie said the wood he used is Port Orford Cedar. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ohio Pietenpol Fly-in
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Kip, I really don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes. I just thought I would make a move and try to get something together. Whatever you want to do, doesn't matter to me I was just looking to have a good time with other Piet guys. I'll still plan on flying in for the T-Craft Fly-in, just because I enjoy it. Whatever else the chapter wants to do is fine. I'll mark it on the calendar and hope other Pieters do too. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81417#81417 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Merry Christmas
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)AOL.COM>
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Dashing through the snow... In a 65 horse open sleigh... Merry Christmas! Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81421#81421 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/merry_christmas_786.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Subject: N174LS aircamper clarance Solmon watyertown Wisconsin
any body know anything about this Gregg 1 built in 1994 and inspected by ANP jim stark 0r FAA rep Stephen Moe?? This peat ended up in Michigan and is now for sale. Irwin Davis may know something about this because he sold it to the present owner. you can send me a message off line if you want. Malcolm Brubaker current kit fox pilot and potential piet owner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Ohio Pietenpol Fly-in
Don, Not to worry, you're not stepping on any toes as far as I'm concerned. I just wanted to suggest an alternative plan, but at this point I can't say which idea would be the best choice. Let's see what Chapter 82 wants to do & go from there. Like you said, the important thing is to have a good time with other Piet guys & I'm sure that's really all anyone else cares about too, I'm glad you did check with Forrest, so that we know doing something during the T-Craft Fly-in would be an option. Cheers! Kip Gardner > >Kip, >I really don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes. I just thought >I would make a move and try to get something together. Whatever you >want to do, doesn't matter to me I was just looking to have a good >time with other Piet guys. I'll still plan on flying in for the >T-Craft Fly-in, just because I enjoy it. Whatever else the chapter >wants to do is fine. I'll mark it on the calendar and hope other >Pieters do too. >Don Emch >NX899DE > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Charlies ribs
Like Clif says, good stuff if you can get it. Don't know where Charlie did, but Port Orford Cedar is likely pretty tough to come by these days & I don't even want to think about what it likely would cost! Port Orford used to be the wood of choice for arrow shafts back in the days before carbon fiber - extremely straight-grained & the numbers Clif mentioned speak for themselves. Unfortunately, it was never one of the more abundant species in the forest & with current timbering practices, what winds up at the mill these days is probably mixed in with other species and not specifically processed to be marketed as Port Orford. Kip Gardner > Density Compression >Strength Tensile >Spruce-----------------------31lb/ft-------------4500lb/in--------------------6700lb/in >Port Orford >Cedar--------29lb/ft-------------5800lb/in--------------------7300lb/in > >From the chart at the bottom of this page; > ><http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html>http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html > >Good stuff if you can get it. > >Clif > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:csfog(at)earthlink.net>Skip-Cinda Gadd >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:39 AM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Charlies ribs > >Dick, >All the replys for red Cedar got me wondering, so I looked up my notes. >At the 1992 Brodhead Piet fly-in Charlie gave a demo on his rib >building, during which he had the biggest guy in the crowd stand on >one of his ribs, held in a special jig, and it didn't break! Anyway >from my notes of July 31, 1992, Charlie said the wood he used >is Port Orford Cedar. -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Dec 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Go to: perroneleather.com. They have about any type of leather or cloth helmet you could want. A little pricy but the best. I have a set of leather for winter and cloth for summer. They also have lots of other aviation leather stuff. JIM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Rob, Were you or are you with the Daily News? Knew a Rob Stapleton that worked there in the late 70's and early 80's. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: <foto(at)alaska.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > When I get my Piet done I will fly down from Anchorage! > Rob Stapleton > www.eaa42.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> > Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:59 am > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > >> >> Gene, >> You gotta miss AK. RE headgear, I have an older buddy that is > good >> withelectronics, he took a $100 full face shield motorcycle > helmet and >> installed a speaker in one ear, then hooked up to his handheld > with >> push to >> talk button. I've tried it, but have a hard time understanding air >> trafficwith one speaker, could be just his wiring. Suspect the >> fleece lined cap >> from airspruce would work on any type of headset. DC's keep > the >> ears warm >> and the wind battering you get in an open cockpit plane is >> minimized with >> the cap. >> Gotta a place in Homer AK for 9 mos. year. Piete flyers welcome > to >> comevisit. >> Gordon Bowen >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: Gene & Tammy zharvey(at)bellsouth.net >> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:37:25 -0600 >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear >> >> >> >> Gordon, >> Spent most of my life in Alaska (1960 to 1985 full time and up >> until this >> year half time as a captain for Alaska Clean Seas in the Arctic.) >> so I'm >> use >> to being out in the cold but this humidity in the south is killling >> me. I >> have looked at the hats in Airspruce but don't own a set of David >> Clarksand >> don't want to spend the money to get a set. I was hoping > someone >> may have >> made a helmet and still had the pattern. I agree on the motor >> cycle >> goggles. They look great! >> Thanks >> Gene >> N502R >> ----- > ----------------- >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- >> -- >> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at >> > http://mail2web.com/ . >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ >> mail2web - Check your email from the web at >> http://mail2web.com/ . >> >> >> >> >> _- > ======================================== > ================== >> _- > ======================================== > ================== >> _- > ======================================== > ================== >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
Date: Dec 13, 2006
Hans, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you. Just had to send your "Happy Holidays" on to some friends. What a hoot! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Vander Voort" <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas > > > Mike, > > The same to you and every one else. > > "HAPPY HOLIDAYS" > > For my politically / cultural sensitive friends - Please accept with no > obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally > conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral > celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most > enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or > secular > practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular > persuasion > and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or > secular traditions at all. > > I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically > uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar > year 2007, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of > other > cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. > Not > to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor > the > only America in the Western Hemisphere . Also, this wish is made without > regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith > or > sexual preference of the wishee. > > By accepting these greetings, you are accepting the aforementioned terms > as > stated. This greeting is not subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is > freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It > implies > no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for > herself/himself/ others, and is void where prohibited by law and is > revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. > > This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application > of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a > subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is > limited > to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole > discretion of the wisher. > > For all my other Friends - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! > > > Hans > > > "Cuy, Michael D. > (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" > <michael.d.cuy@na To > sa.gov> > Sent by: cc > owner-pietenpol-l > ist-server@matron Subject > ics.com Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas > > > 12/13/2006 09:52 > AM > > > Please respond to > pietenpol-list@ma > tronics.com > > > Jim M. and others: Every day is a happy holiday when you're a member of > the Pietenpol e-mail discussion group so I'm going to > post (even though it is a bit early) the sometimes politically incorrect > (but I really don't give a rip) Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. > (even if you don't believe in Santy Claus) > > Mike C. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Chock those Wheels & Tie 'Er Down (OT)
No Piet content, but interesting story on the news wire this morning: Pilot sees plane take off without him A pilot watched in horror as his plane took off without him. The airman, 70, saw it soar into the sky and do a loop before crashing, reports the Mirror. The unnamed pilot had clung on to the wing to prevent it taking off at Barton Aerodrome, near Manchester, but lost his grip and fell off. The drama began when the engine of the single-seater Luton LA4A cut out while the plane taxied. The pilot left the cockpit to restart the motor manually but accidentally nudged the throttle lever open. When he spun the propeller the engine roared into life and the plane surged down the runaway leaving the flyer stranded. The plane was severely damaged but the pilot escaped with cuts and bruises. An Air Accidents Investigation Branch investigation said the pilot did not realise he had knocked the throttle on because he was wearing padded clothing. The plane is registered to Stephen Smith of Lancaster but he is not believed to have been the pilot. A Barton Aerodrome spokesman declined to comment. Tim in Bovey == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Chock those Wheels & Tie 'Er Down (OT)
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Tim, Only pilots with starters would see any humor in this. No starter Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Chock those Wheels & Tie 'Er Down (OT) > > > No Piet content, but interesting story on the news wire this morning: > > Pilot sees plane take off without him > > A pilot watched in horror as his plane took off without him. > > The airman, 70, saw it soar into the sky and do a loop before crashing, > reports the Mirror. > > The unnamed pilot had clung on to the wing to prevent it taking off at > Barton Aerodrome, near Manchester, but lost his grip and fell off. > > The drama began when the engine of the single-seater Luton LA4A cut out > while the plane taxied. > > The pilot left the cockpit to restart the motor manually but > accidentally nudged the throttle lever open. > > When he spun the propeller the engine roared into life and the plane > surged down the runaway leaving the flyer stranded. > > The plane was severely damaged but the pilot escaped with cuts and > bruises. > > An Air Accidents Investigation Branch investigation said the pilot did > not realise he had knocked the throttle on because he was wearing > padded clothing. > > The plane is registered to Stephen Smith of Lancaster but he is not > believed to have been the pilot. > > A Barton Aerodrome spokesman declined to comment. > > Tim in Bovey > > > == > You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! > == > > > Want to start your own business? > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Gene These seem to be the best deal going for clasic flying goggles. cant imagine anyone cheaper and at 15$ you can't beat the price. available in black or chrome frame. http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=023612&Category_Code=23 and http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=0256219&Category_Code=23 nomex pilot gloves: http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code 7422&Category_Code=23 F16 Pilot Helmet http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=025682&Category_Code=23 or the chinese version with comm and oxigen/pressuresuit rig. http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=087624&Category_Code=23 if you sign up for their catalog youl get one a month and the items change frequently, I have seen clasic aviator leather helmets for real cheap in the past. michael silvius scarborough, maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> > Michael, > So much to check out! As I have more time I will go thru it all. Russian > flying goggles would be great! > Thanks > Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: realistic/Ohio gathering
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
In reading about the hopes of gathering some Piets for a fly-in next summer in Ohio I can only conclude that even the best of the best conditions and circumstances will yield probably only 4 Piets maximum. If more show up, all the better but not many owners out there willing to fly a 70 mph airplane cross country, especially with avgas pushing $4 a gallon. Virgil Phillips tried to host a Piet-centered MERFI fly-in at Marion last year and I half think that not one showed up. Apologies if I'm mistaken though, please. The most Piets I've ever seen in one place either occurs at the Waco Fly in at Wynkoop Airport near Mt. Vernon or the Taylorcraft fly-in at Barber Airport in Alliance, Ohio. Those would be the times/places where you'd have the best chance of a gaggle. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Have a wonderful holiday!
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Doubtful, Gene. I'd like to fly it to Brodhead again, but I'll probably fly the RV-4 this summer (takes too much vacation to fly the Piet). I am planning to fly the Pietenpol to Sun 'n' Fun in April, though. I'll be flying over you next week. Karen and I will fly the RV-4 to Jackson, TN to spend Christmas with my Mom. If you get your cold weather gear together and want to fly your Pietenpol to MKL let me know. I'd like to see your plane. If you do, call me on my cellphone (919) 427-4440. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- --> Jack, for crying out loud quit missing those deer! Your chasing all of them up here to Tennessee and we don't want any more. Are you going to be flying the Piet up here this summer? Gene in Camden - _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Shawn, really great info! Just what I was looking for. I already have the snowmachine balaclova with the flaps so all I need is the aviator cap. I've not been able to find anything on the Richelieu Sportwear cap. The Perroneleather.com site has some good looking ones but I'm more interested in the Richelieu ones as you've aready coldweather proven them If you would have the time to pick up and mail me one I'll send the money beforehand. Contact me off list. zharvey(at)bellsouth.net I'm really envious of your flying off the frozen lakes. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Shawn Wolk To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cold weather head gear Hello List, I regularly fly in cold weather with my Piet up here in Canada. I've experimented with lots of headgear. And I can assure you, this will work as it's been tested to -14C or 6F. A snowmobile style balaclava. Not the sewn wool ones, but the polyester fabric. They usually have flaps on both the front and back that go into your coat. This insulates your neck, and they are thin enough on top for another layer. They also will wick away the moisture to your next layer. Then on top a work wear type aviator style cap. These are made with a heavy cotton duck outer shell, and are lined with insulating polyester and then smooth fabric lined. If you want to use a headset. Cut out holes on each side just a wee bit smaller than the headset seals. The idea is for the headset to kind a snap in at the headset seal cut-outs. When I made mine I had piping sewn in to stiffen up the shape of the hole and make better sealing. The balaclava underneath fits tight enough that the headset still works to keep things quiet. Ant other system that I have tried. Including a hardhat liner instead of the bella clave were inefficient. The multiple layers around the ear section allowed noise to come in. The specific aviator cap work wear item is made by Richelieu Sportwear here in Winnipeg MB. Usually retails for less than $20.00 CDN. If you cannot find one locally I can send you one. The snowmobile bella clava is available from snowmobile specialty shops. Often they will have a double layer in the area that wouldn't be covered by a helmet. Some will also have a flap that covers the nose and mouth. With one of these models, after goggles are put on there is no exposed skin. My Piet has a fairly large windscreen, so I find the coldest part was the back of the neck area. Must be a vortex of air blasting back there. That is why I chose a balaclava with the insulated flap (outside of the area a helmet would cover). If you cannot find one of those, a scarf would do the same thing. Just much clumsier to put on. The ice on the lakes here in Southern Manitoba is thick enough for ski flying operations now. So I have already been logging the hours. You can't beat the smooth air and excellent performance of the cold crisp air. Shawn Wolk C-FRAZ 1933 Pietenpol Aircamper Winnipeg, MB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: Brendan Carmody <brendancarmody2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Piet on Ebay
Anyone familiar with the Corvair-powered Piet offered on Ebay -- N174LS? Being offered by someone in MI, but the FAA database indicates it was/is registered to a Clarence Salmon in WI -- since May 18, 1992. Apparently, he was the builder. Chap offering it on Ebay seems evasive (to me) about providing salient details like: When was it last flown? When was the last condition inspection? Will he put the wings back on and make it airworthy for the purchaser? I think I'd like to own and fly a Piet -- maybe this one -- but I'm building a Mermaid amphibian and don't need another project. Brendan Carmody in Fresno CA __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: steam relief pipe for Ford "A"
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Don, I have a Dan Price head and we've tapped the front of it for the steam tube. I don't think I've ever seen one welded. I would not really recommend welding it for two reasons, firstly aluminum takes so much heat to weld I'm afraid it could possibly warp the head, and secondly it's just not needed when one can drill and tap it so easily. Be sure to get it up near the front so it relieves that steam pocket that forms. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Thanks Jim. It is a really site. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jdavis2a(at)wmconnect.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Go to: perroneleather.com. They have about any type of leather or cloth helmet you could want. A little pricy but the best. I have a set of leather for winter and cloth for summer. They also have lots of other aviation leather stuff. JIM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Thanks Michael, I signed up today. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > > Gene >>> if you sign up for their catalog youl get one a month and the items >>> change > frequently, I have seen clasic aviator leather helmets for real cheap in > the > past. > > michael silvius > scarborough, maine > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: realistic/Ohio gathering
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Mike, I completely agree. Unfortunately the specific type fly-ins are dwindling in size over the past couple of years. I think there are several reasons for this, which makes me wonder how much of a stand alone Piet turn out there would be. A place like Brodhead has other obvious attractions that keep people coming back. A new stand alone Pietenpol fly-in probably would not have much of an attraction if there was the thought of only a couple of planes showing up. However if people have the idea that maybe there would be other types then they may be more inclined to come. At least if there were very few Pietenpols, at least there would be other types to enjoy. I agree and think Waco or T-craft would be the time and place. Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81596#81596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: steam relief pipe for Ford "A"
Hey Don, Let me know if you do decide to have it welded. My brother in opening a welding shop and does aluminum (and titanium and steel, etc). His aluminum welding is the best I've seen. He used to weld titanium on F14 wing pivots...he's good! JM in NE Oklahoma -----Original Message----- >From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: Dec 14, 2006 3:15 PM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: steam relief pipe for Ford "A" > >Don, > >I have a Dan Price head and we've tapped the front of it for the steam tube. I don't think I've ever seen one welded. I would not really recommend welding it for two reasons, firstly aluminum takes so much heat to weld I'm afraid it could possibly warp the head, and secondly it's just not needed when one can drill and tap it so easily. Be sure to get it up near the front so it relieves that steam pocket that forms. > >Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Charlies ribs
Date: Dec 14, 2006
Re: Pietenpol-List: Charlies ribsThe set of ribs I purchase from Charlie in late 2004 are made from Western Red Cedar. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers
We do aluminum castings in our factory... Just need to test how much the freight and any export paperwork could cost, They will be of very good quality., If I can get a temporary sample... to make the plug, do a batch and see how much will cost to get them to any city in USA... Could be with ircamper" and another ones later with "FlyCorvair"..... Just and idea. Probably could work. What do you think? Recently freight cost here are going down, lots of competition... I have a friend in the freight bussiness and was joking that now is Cheaping instead of shipping :-) :-) Saludos Gary Gower. Flying from Chapala, Mexico. DJ Vegh wrote: wow... I'm glad I got mine when I did! ----- Original Message ----- From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aircamper Valve Covers In a message dated 12/12/2006 6:12:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com writes: I just wrote to the fella who was selling them, and the reply I received a week or so ago states: "I have stopped making the Air Camper valve covers. The foundry that was casting them for me found out they were going on airplanes and refused to make anymore" So, there ya go. Gonna be a long time till I need any, but really wanted a pair! Tim in Bovey This is exactly why, when I farm out any work, I lie and tell them it is for something other than an aircraft or that the part will be used on a static display. Ron href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 14, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: steam relief pipe for Ford "A"
Where do you put the train whistle? Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: steam relief pipe for Ford "A" Don, I have a Dan Price head and we've tapped the front of it for the steam tube. I don't think I've ever seen one welded. I would not really recommend welding it for two reasons, firstly aluminum takes so much heat to weld I'm afraid it could possibly warp the head, and secondly it's just not needed when one can drill and tap it so easily. Be sure to get it up near the front so it relieves that steam pocket that forms. Douwe ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12/14/2006 7:28 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fly-in's in general
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Don, group-- Yes, joining another fly-in is a good way to go for any gathering much like the Hatz guys did at Brodhead a year or two ago. I find that I'm much more inclined to attend a fly-in w/ my plane if I know there will be many other planes to look at once I've landed. I think that can be said for 95% of us who are able to and do go to fly-in's when we can. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fly-in's in general
Well, I guess the Voice Of Authority has spoken, so I'm backing out of this. Need to get back to building anyway. Cheers, Kip Gardner >Don, group-- Yes, joining another fly-in is a good way to go for any >gathering much like the Hatz guys did at Brodhead a year or two ago. >I find that I'm much more inclined to attend a fly-in w/ my plane if >I know there will be many other planes to look at once I've landed. >I think that can be said for 95% of us who are able to and do go to >fly-in's when we can. > >Mike C. -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: organizing/planning
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Hey Kip-- I say go for it if you'd like to organize a stand-alone Ohio Piet fly-in. More power to you, seriously. My opinion is just that and I'm only saying I'm more likely to bring my plane to a place where I can see other planes---even at Brodhead I'm there to see other planes besides Piets, which makes it all the more attractive to attend. A stand alone event would be just fine too though, I'm just thinking you'd have more attendance if you had another concurrent event going on--but then again maybe not. Didn't mean to pee on your campfire---especially if you're willing to organize something I say do what your gut tells you and who shows up shows up, eh ? Nobody is an authority here but we all have something to offer, that is for sure. Nothing is written in stone---just read the Tony Bingelis books. He usually gives you three ways to complete a homebuilding job and then the choice is up to the builder--just like organizing an event--go for it, man ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
Bill, That is something I can help with. Allot of recent changes have come down the road and smaller electric is better than ever. The Faulhabers are available but are more trouble than they are worth. You can hit any good hobby shop or towerhobbies.com and get a GWS IPS (indoor power system) in a 4:1 gear ratio which they refer to as the A ratio I think rather than just telling you the ratio, and about a 9x7 or 9x8 GWS prop. Then you just need a GWS 5 amp ESC and about a 400mah or so 2 cell Lipo pack. Should run you about $60 for the whole package. The GWS orange prop looks terrible until you take a black/brown marker and color it and it suddenly looks like a nice wood grain. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
I power my Speed 400 size Piet with an Eflite Park450 outrunner brushless motor and 20amp speed control. I use a 10x6 slowfly prop. It has a 3 cell lithium polymer battery pack and I get about 20 minute flight times on a charge. Power is way more than you need but nice to power yourself out of a bad situtation. Mine is 4 channel but I mixed ailerons so that I can flip both up and act as spoilerons. It really comes down fast when landing that way. I love it! here's some pics http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-12-02.htm DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Bill, That is something I can help with. Allot of recent changes have come down the road and smaller electric is better than ever. The Faulhabers are available but are more trouble than they are worth. You can hit any good hobby shop or towerhobbies.com and get a GWS IPS (indoor power system) in a 4:1 gear ratio which they refer to as the A ratio I think rather than just telling you the ratio, and about a 9x7 or 9x8 GWS prop. Then you just need a GWS 5 amp ESC and about a 400mah or so 2 cell Lipo pack. Should run you about $60 for the whole package. The GWS orange prop looks terrible until you take a black/brown marker and color it and it suddenly looks like a nice wood grain. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
Bill I have an idea...why don't you build 2 and sell me one. That pic looks great. Barry Davis ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Thanks for the replies Scott and DJ, Since I have no practical knowledge regarding electric powered flight, I am attempting a guess at the size of the motor required, for the Dumas model with a wingspan of 36". Flying weight is supposed to be 6 - 7 oz. I guess 300 or 350? What do you think, guys? I found a GWS website that has some dimensioned drawings of their EPS units. I'll have to dig out the plans tonight to see if the GWS unit will fit in the space of the Faulhaber. I can always modify the structure if it's close. Thanks for the feedback. Bill C P.S. Barry, that photo is a publicity photo. Not my model - it's still a bunch of sticks in a box. I'll post some pics when I complete mine (if it turns out nice enough). ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol I power my Speed 400 size Piet with an Eflite Park450 outrunner brushless motor and 20amp speed control. I use a 10x6 slowfly prop. It has a 3 cell lithium polymer battery pack and I get about 20 minute flight times on a charge. Power is way more than you need but nice to power yourself out of a bad situtation. Mine is 4 channel but I mixed ailerons so that I can flip both up and act as spoilerons. It really comes down fast when landing that way. I love it! here's some pics http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-12-02.htm DJ Vegh veghdesign.com <http://www.veghdesign.com> Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 <http://www.veghdesign.com> "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber <mailto:got22b(at)SubaruBrat.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Bill, That is something I can help with. Allot of recent changes have come down the road and smaller electric is better than ever. The Faulhabers are available but are more trouble than they are worth. You can hit any good hobby shop or towerhobbies.com and get a GWS IPS (indoor power system) in a 4:1 gear ratio which they refer to as the A ratio I think rather than just telling you the ratio, and about a 9x7 or 9x8 GWS prop. Then you just need a GWS 5 amp ESC and about a 400mah or so 2 cell Lipo pack. Should run you about $60 for the whole package. The GWS orange prop looks terrible until you take a black/brown marker and color it and it suddenly looks like a nice wood grain. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church <mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
A 300/400 would be much too heavy for the Dumas, it is a "large" plane for it's weight. It is a lightweight floater and has a very light wing loading. The IPS is a 180 sized motor and it will keep the plane light but have pleanty of power for it. The GWS will fit fine in the Dumas, under and inside the fake motor. Take a look at this part number on Tower Hobbies: LXHHM0 for the IPS and LXHHX9 for the prop. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 4:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Thanks for the replies Scott and DJ, Since I have no practical knowledge regarding electric powered flight, I am attempting a guess at the size of the motor required, for the Dumas model with a wingspan of 36". Flying weight is supposed to be 6 - 7 oz. I guess 300 or 350? What do you think, guys? I found a GWS website that has some dimensioned drawings of their EPS units. I'll have to dig out the plans tonight to see if the GWS unit will fit in the space of the Faulhaber. I can always modify the structure if it's close. Thanks for the feedback. Bill C P.S. Barry, that photo is a publicity photo. Not my model - it's still a bunch of sticks in a box. I'll post some pics when I complete mine (if it turns out nice enough). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol I power my Speed 400 size Piet with an Eflite Park450 outrunner brushless motor and 20amp speed control. I use a 10x6 slowfly prop. It has a 3 cell lithium polymer battery pack and I get about 20 minute flight times on a charge. Power is way more than you need but nice to power yourself out of a bad situtation. Mine is 4 channel but I mixed ailerons so that I can flip both up and act as spoilerons. It really comes down fast when landing that way. I love it! here's some pics http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-12-02.htm DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Bill, That is something I can help with. Allot of recent changes have come down the road and smaller electric is better than ever. The Faulhabers are available but are more trouble than they are worth. You can hit any good hobby shop or towerhobbies.com and get a GWS IPS (indoor power system) in a 4:1 gear ratio which they refer to as the A ratio I think rather than just telling you the ratio, and about a 9x7 or 9x8 GWS prop. Then you just need a GWS 5 amp ESC and about a 400mah or so 2 cell Lipo pack. Should run you about $60 for the whole package. The GWS orange prop looks terrible until you take a black/brown marker and color it and it suddenly looks like a nice wood grain. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Ohio Piets
Hello All, Dad and I will more than likely be at the WACO fly in this year at Wyncoop in Mt Vrenon. If I am able I will also be at any other piet fly-ins in the area. The waco fly in is pretty good, MERFI is also pretty good. I like to see all the homebuilts and old "rag bags". As far as having to be an all piet fly-in I say we just call it a taildragger fly-in. If we have it at a "shorter" grass strip airport, say 2500- 3000ft runway (which some new hotshot jet jockys call short), we will attract simmilar airplanes. Or maybe we call it a homebuilt fly in, or grass roots fly in. I have a few guys here at Chapman Field who want to get a fly in calender togeather and fly to some fly ins as a group this summer. One has a Avid, one a Cub, And another few with an L-3, a colt, and a Stinson 108. If we had it on grass it would probably discourage the "Fast Glass" factory built "homebuilts". Although there is a guy in Delaware OH who finnished his GP-4 a month after Dad got his piet done, and MAN THAT THING MOVES! 260mph so far on 180hp, and its all wood, I would like a ride in it. Don't be suprised to see it in Sport Aviation some day, it is beutiful. Any ways, let me know if anyone decides anything or if I can be of assistance. Look forward to NOT being the only Piet at a fly-in next year, Shad __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 15, 2006
From: n925wb1(at)aol.com
Bill, The IPS would likely be the ideal motor for the little Piet. I have one of those kits, too, and was planning on either using that motor or a small brushless motor in the GWS IPS gearbox. The GWS' stock brushed motor would probably fly the plane just fine, but if you wanted more punch from your power system, you could always upgrade to a 180-sized brushless motor that will bolt right into the the GWS gearbox. These are available from several manufacturers, but I have personally had success with the Fegaio brand of motors. These will require a more expensive speed controller than the GWS motor, but will give you an increase in both power and duration. Check out www.rcgroups.com for more information about all types of R/C models. I'm sure that if you do a quick search you'll be able to find some more detailed insight into the Dumas Pietenpol. -Wayne Bressler www.taildraggersinc.com -----Original Message----- From: eng(at)canadianrogers.com Sent: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 2:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Thanks for the replies Scott and DJ, Since I have no practical knowledge regarding electric powered flight, I am attempting a guess at the size of the motor required, for the Dumas model with a wingspan of 36". Flying weight is supposed to be 6 - 7 oz. I guess 300 or 350? What do you think, guys? I found a GWS website that has some dimensioned drawings of their EPS units. I'll have to dig out the plans tonight to see if the GWS unit will fit in the space of the Faulhaber. I can always modify the structure if it's close. Thanks for the feedback. Bill C P.S. Barry, that photo is a publicity photo. Not my model - it's still a bunch of sticks in a box. I'll post some pics when I complete mine (if it turns out nice enough). From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol I power my Speed 400 size Piet with an Eflite Park450 outrunner brushless motor and 20amp speed control. I use a 10x6 slowfly prop. It has a 3 cell lithium polymer battery pack and I get about 20 minute flight times on a charge. Power is way more than you need but nice to power yourself out of a bad situtation. Mine is 4 channel but I mixed ailerons so that I can flip both up and act as spoilerons. It really comes down fast when landing that way. I love it! here's some pics http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-12-02.htm DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Bill, That is something I can help with. Allot of recent changes have come down the road and smaller electric is better than ever. The Faulhabers are available but are more trouble than they are worth. You can hit any good hobby shop or towerhobbies.com and get a GWS IPS (indoor power system) in a 4:1 gear ratio which they refer to as the A ratio I think rather than just telling you the ratio, and about a 9x7 or 9x8 GWS prop. Then you just need a GWS 5 amp ESC and about a 400mah or so 2 cell Lipo pack. Should run you about $60 for the whole package. The GWS orange prop looks terrible until you take a black/brown marker and color it and it suddenly looks like a nice wood grain. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Wayne is very correct, the Fiagios are amazing. If you are looking to fly in a scale manner then the IPS will make you more than happy. If you want vertical, then just replace the motor in the IPS with a Fegaio. Brushless will do a few things for you other than more power, better efficiency so more time from the same pack, and no real lifespan limitations, no brushes to wear out. But also you might go through 2 motors in the models lifespan for an additional $5. It isn't all a matter of money, sometimes the brushed is just simpler and works fine. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: n925wb1(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Bill, The IPS would likely be the ideal motor for the little Piet. I have one of those kits, too, and was planning on either using that motor or a small brushless motor in the GWS IPS gearbox. The GWS' stock brushed motor would probably fly the plane just fine, but if you wanted more punch from your power system, you could always upgrade to a 180-sized brushless motor that will bolt right into the the GWS gearbox. These are available from several manufacturers, but I have personally had success with the Fegaio brand of motors. These will require a more expensive speed controller than the GWS motor, but will give you an increase in both power and duration. Check out www.rcgroups.com for more information about all types of R/C models. I'm sure that if you do a quick search you'll be able to find some more detailed insight into the Dumas Pietenpol. -Wayne Bressler www.taildraggersinc.com -----Original Message----- From: eng(at)canadianrogers.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 2:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Thanks for the replies Scott and DJ, Since I have no practical knowledge regarding electric powered flight, I am attempting a guess at the size of the motor required, for the Dumas model with a wingspan of 36". Flying weight is supposed to be 6 - 7 oz. I guess 300 or 350? What do you think, guys? I found a GWS website that has some dimensioned drawings of their EPS units. I'll have to dig out the plans tonight to see if the GWS unit will fit in the space of the Faulhaber. I can always modify the structure if it's close. Thanks for the feedback. Bill C P.S. Barry, that photo is a publicity photo. Not my model - it's still a bunch of sticks in a box. I'll post some pics when I complete mine (if it turns out nice enough). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:31 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol I power my Speed 400 size Piet with an Eflite Park450 outrunner brushless motor and 20amp speed control. I use a 10x6 slowfly prop. It has a 3 cell lithium polymer battery pack and I get about 20 minute flight times on a charge. Power is way more than you need but nice to power yourself out of a bad situtation. Mine is 4 channel but I mixed ailerons so that I can flip both up and act as spoilerons. It really comes down fast when landing that way. I love it! here's some pics http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/06-12-02.htm DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol Bill, That is something I can help with. Allot of recent changes have come down the road and smaller electric is better than ever. The Faulhabers are available but are more trouble than they are worth. You can hit any good hobby shop or towerhobbies.com and get a GWS IPS (indoor power system) in a 4:1 gear ratio which they refer to as the A ratio I think rather than just telling you the ratio, and about a 9x7 or 9x8 GWS prop. Then you just need a GWS 5 amp ESC and about a 400mah or so 2 cell Lipo pack. Should run you about $60 for the whole package. The GWS orange prop looks terrible until you take a black/brown marker and color it and it suddenly looks like a nice wood grain. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 8:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model Pietenpol With winter setting in, the appeal of working out in the garage workshop becomes less and less as the temperature drops. So, while the snow starts to fly outdoors, I have a R/C Pietenpol model kit to build indoors. It's the one made by Dumas (picture attached). It's electric powered. This is where my question comes in. I am familiar with glow motors, and making substitutions with those powerplants is fairly straightforward. But these electric motors are something new to me. The plans call for a Faulhaber DC-117 motor with a 1524 gearbox. I can't seem to find a source for such a beast. Do any of you guys out there know where to get one of these? Or, failing that, do any of you know of a good substitute motor that's more readily available? Bill C ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Ohio Piets
Date: Dec 15, 2006
Shad, If you can, please post the dates of the differant fly-ins and locations for those of us that are fairly new to this part of the world. I live in Tennessee and as time permits I want to attend as many fly-ins as possible with my Piet. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: Pietenpol Discussion Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piets Hello All, Dad and I will more than likely be at the WACO fly in this year at Wyncoop in Mt Vrenon. If I am able I will also be at any other piet fly-ins in the area. The waco fly in is pretty good, MERFI is also pretty good. I like to see all the homebuilts and old "rag bags". As far as having to be an all piet fly-in I say we just call it a taildragger fly-in. If we have it at a "shorter" grass strip airport, say 2500- 3000ft runway (which some new hotshot jet jockys call short), we will attract simmilar airplanes. Or maybe we call it a homebuilt fly in, or grass roots fly in. I have a few guys here at Chapman Field who want to get a fly in calender togeather and fly to some fly ins as a group this summer. One has a Avid, one a Cub, And another few with an L-3, a colt, and a Stinson 108. If we had it on grass it would probably discourage the "Fast Glass" factory built "homebuilts". Although ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au>
Subject: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Can I have some advice please. I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of the strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with alum attached with epoxy and screws. What did others do? Thankyou, JohnW -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Date: Dec 16, 2006
On NX18235 the leading edge is glued and bolted to the ribs. 1/16 plywood is attached to the ribs with T88. Bolting the leading edge to the ribs is prudent. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Subject: surface tapes
Hello everyone, I am finishing up on covering and was wondering if it is necessary to put surface tapes on the stringers on the turtle deck, looking at some of my photos it does'nt look as if everyone does Thanks, Robert Bush Lexington TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: more pictures of controls
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
The white napkins you see spread around are actually Downy cloths that one would use in the dryer for softening clothes.They keep the mice out of the aircraft because they can't stand the smell.In the spring I throw them away when preparing the plane for service.In the pics you can see the pulleys,turnbuckles and cables.I don't use a stick in the front because I don't carry passengers and even if I did I wouldn't want them playing around with it.You can also see the pulleys and rudder set up. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: surface tapes
Robert, The norm is for wherever the fabric contacts solid frame, it's reinforced with tape . All fabric "moves" on the structure, and can potentially wear thru. Leaving the fabric job instantly useless. If you get the Poly Fiber manual, It'll explain this walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: surface tapes Hello everyone, I am finishing up on covering and was wondering if it is necessary to put surface tapes on the stringers on the turtle deck, looking at some of my photos it does'nt look as if everyone does Thanks, Robert Bush Lexington TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Folks, I used small #10 machine screws and nuts to hold the leading edge to the ribs. Even if you don't need them for strength, they are nice to have to insure positive placement until the glue dries. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: surface tapes
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Rob In my opinion, the stringers are the place it is most necessary to use the tapes. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: surface tapes Hello everyone, I am finishing up on covering and was wondering if it is necessary to put surface tapes on the stringers on the turtle deck, looking at some of my photos it does'nt look as if everyone does Thanks, Robert Bush Lexington TN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Date: Dec 16, 2006
John I also drilled and countersunk #8 ss screws. Then filled holes with wood putty. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: GN-1 For Sale
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Bert Conoly has his GN-1 up on Barnstormers, the ad says 1995, but I think he completed it 2005. I know he wrote into the list when he made the first flight. http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search&PHPSESSID=ccffb167bc80bfcfeea0258513e115d2 Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
In a message dated 12/16/2006 7:04:08 AM Central Standard Time, johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au writes: Can I have some advice please. I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of the strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with alum attached with epoxy and screws. What did others do? Thankyou, JohnW John, By dry fitting the leading edge with screws before using the adhesive, you will be able to get it on nice and straight and faster, once you mix the adhesive, and the clock starts ticking. The mechanical fasteners are a good backup if you get a bird strike. Pietenpol's don't always take bird strikes from the rear !! :) Keep in mind that Aluminum expands and contracts much different rate than wood, which might be a factor when it's sitting out under the sun on a Hot day. I don't think you need anything on the bottom of the leading edge...that's just extra time, effort, and weight. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: radiators low?
I've really enjoyed Chet Peek's book and recommend it to the list. In the book there is mention of a Bernie installing the radiator on an A-powered Scout below the engine. The story notes that Bernie never did it again, but does not explain why. Does anyone know? I recall at Brodhead one year a Piet that was powered by a B (I think) that had two radiators under the engine with frame running fore and aft. Duct work directed airflow in from the front, then 90 degrees to run across the face of the radiators. The airflow exited through controlled slats on the lower sides of the cowling. I apologize if my memory is playing tricks on me. I've never even seen pix of this Piet since. Other than these two examples, I don't know of any Piets with radiators below the engine. Are there any? If not, why not? Thanks for any input, Jeff -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
John, Don't understand why you would use aluminum. Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? John, only constructive critisism :^) If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter bottles, you can staple right thru them. The next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of the strip and pull all the staples out in one strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes sealed. PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to the plans, (Bernard knew how to design), I never cut any corners, which means I never put on less then he designed. But I didn't add. Empty licenced weight,,,595# My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can still climb out comfortabally with fuel aboard, from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white knuckles here. Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Walt, I don't know the answer for doing it, but the builder of our Piet used aluminum as John is planning to. Wow, 595 lbs empty! What engine are you using? John, I would not do it if I were you. On ours, the shrinking of the fabric caused the aluminum to go all wavy. I'm sure it cuts down on the efficiency of the wing and it is ugly. I'd stick with the plans, FWIW. Jeff >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > reply-type=original >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >John, >Don't understand why you would use aluminum. >Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. >Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . >Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? >John, only constructive critisism > >:^) > >If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter >bottles, you can staple right thru them. The >next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of >the strip and pull all the staples out in one >strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes >sealed. > >PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to >the plans, (Bernard knew how to design), I never >cut any corners, which means I never put on less >then he designed. >But I didn't add. >Empty licenced weight,,,595# >My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can >still climb out comfortabally with fuel aboard, >from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white >knuckles here. > >Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. > > >walt evans >NX140DL > >"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" >Ben Franklin >----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> >To: >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > >>Can I have some advice please. >> >>I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't >>necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of the >>strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. >>Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? >>I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with >>alum attached with epoxy and screws. >>What did others do? >> >>Thankyou, >> >>JohnW >> >>-- >> > > >Attachment converted: BoatG5:walt 223.jpg (JPEG/IC) (00A61656) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au>
Subject: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Thanks for the advice folks. I'll stick to the plans but will use 1/16 ply instead of cardboard on the top only. Walt, I do have a mantra (while I'm meditating in front of the plans)..... Keep it light, stick to the plans. Keep it light, stick to the plans.... But no doubt I'll be asking some more questions with obvious answers....Follow the plans.... JohnW -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: Sunday, 17 December 2006 6:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib John, Don't understand why you would use aluminum. Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? John, only constructive critisism :^) If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter bottles, you can staple right thru them. The next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of the strip and pull all the staples out in one strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes sealed. PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to the plans, (Bernard knew how to design), I never cut any corners, which means I never put on less then he designed. But I didn't add. Empty licenced weight,,,595# My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can still climb out comfortabally with fuel aboard, from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white knuckles here. Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > Can I have some advice please. > > I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't > necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of > the > strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. > Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? > I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with > alum attached with epoxy and screws. > What did others do? > > Thankyou, > > JohnW > > -- > > -- -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: radiators low?
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Jeff, I assume that the main reason why the radiator should be placed high is so that air and steam (if any) will collect at the top, in the radiator top collector, rather than bubbling up the hose to where the water pump is. You don't want air or steam in the water pump. And of course the other reason is that you want the water pump drawing the coolest water, which is at the bottom of the radiator. If your radiator is down low, the pump has to pull it up rather than having gravity assist it. Let the water pump push the hot water to the radiator, which keeps pressure on it and prevents cavitation. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Jeff, I'm using an A-65. With 1.7 oz fabric and the Poly Fiber Process Guess I've brought this up over and over, and if the group is sick of it,,,sorry. I was lucky enough to meet an old timer,,AP,,the personal mechanic/AP/redesigner, of Leo Loudenschlager 3 time (I think) world champ aerobatic pilot. And he became my Mentor This guy is down to earth to the max. And , to me, his word/opinion was the Gospel. He's still going strong, and his words always rattled in my head about "keep it light" Jeff, Yeah the good thing about thin ply , is that you don't have to scallop the back, when the fabric gets tightened, it pulls it down real nice. Bernard talked about this in one of his articles. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib Walt, I don't know the answer for doing it, but the builder of our Piet used aluminum as John is planning to. Wow, 595 lbs empty! What engine are you using? John, I would not do it if I were you. On ours, the shrinking of the fabric caused the aluminum to go all wavy. I'm sure it cuts down on the efficiency of the wing and it is ugly. I'd stick with the plans, FWIW. Jeff >Content-Type: text/plain; > format=flowed; > reply-type=original >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >John, >Don't understand why you would use aluminum. >Sorry , I'm a stickler for following the plans. >Calls for ply on the top leading edge only . >Why would you put aluminum top and bottom with screws? >John, only constructive critisism > >:^) > >If you cut strips of Clorox or cat litter bottles, you can staple right >thru them. The next day when the glue is dry, grab the end of the strip and >pull all the staples out in one strip. Then when you varnish,,,all becomes >sealed. > >PS Still proud of the fact that I built 99.9% to the plans, (Bernard knew >how to design), I never cut any corners, which means I never put on less >then he designed. >But I didn't add. >Empty licenced weight,,,595# >My friend Bob and I (both 200# plus'ers) can still climb out comfortabally >with fuel aboard, from a 2550' long asphalt runway. No white knuckles >here. > >Throw it up,,,if it comes back down, don't add it to the plane. > > >walt evans >NX140DL > >"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" >Ben Franklin >----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnwoods" <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> >To: >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:01 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > >>Can I have some advice please. >> >>I was reading thru the archives and read a post which said it wasn't >>necessary to bolt the leading edge to the ribs (as per plans) because of >>the >>strength of modern glues such as T88 or West Systems. >>Is gluing together with ply or alum LE cover sufficient? >>I am using West Systems and intend to cover the top and bottom of LE with >>alum attached with epoxy and screws. >>What did others do? >> >>Thankyou, >> >>JohnW >> >>-- >> > > >Attachment converted: BoatG5:walt 223.jpg (JPEG/IC) (00A61656) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio Piets
Gene, I will let you know what and when I plan to attend as far as fly ins, as soon as I know which ones I will be going to. I hope to be able to attend as many as possible this spring/ summer. I have limmited experiance with the longer cross countries, but tennesee would be a long weekend trip. If you know of any really good fly ins down in your neck of the woods let me know and I'll think of heading down south of the old Mason Dixon Line. It's gonna take some real getting used to the rebuilt corvair before I tackle the Apalatation (spelling) mountians. I know these are considdered "Hills" to the far westerners on the list, but I don't want to tear up Dad's Piet trying to be Wiley Post. Have a merry Christmas, and to all a good night. Shad Gene & Tammy wrote: Shad, If you can, please post the dates of the differant fly-ins and locations for those of us that are fairly new to this part of the world. I live in Tennessee and as time permits I want to attend as many fly-ins as possible with my Piet. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: Pietenpol Discussion Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piets Hello All, Dad and I will more than likely be at the WACO fly in this year at Wyncoop in Mt Vrenon. If I am able I will also be at any other piet fly-ins in the area. The waco fly in is pretty good, MERFI is also pretty good. I like to see all the homebuilts and old "rag bags". As far as having to be an all piet fly-in I say we just call it a taildragger fly-in. If we have it at a "shorter" grass strip airport, say 2500- 3000ft runway (which some new hotshot jet jockys call short), we will attract simmilar airplanes. Or maybe we call it a homebuilt fly in, or grass roots fly in. I have a few guys here at Chapman Field who want to get a fly in calender togeather and fly to some fly ins as a group this summer. One has a Avid, one a Cub, And another few with an L-3, a colt, and a Stinson 108. If we had it on grass it would probably discourage the "Fast Glass" factory built "homebuilts". Although href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Another thing I noticed is that the wing really stiffens up once the leading edge ply is glued to the leading edge and to the ribs. Many things on the plans work together and serve more purposes than just what might be first apparent. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82022#82022 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 16, 2006
Subject: Re: air tran to sun fun
I just booked non stop too and from sun fun for $218.60 on air tran using ther home page hope to see you ther mal michigan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: First (and second) Flight
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Hi Guys, Here is a quick story of my first two flights. Both are very memorable occasions...... I had finished the Pietenpol at the beginning of December and had the Certificate of Airworthiness issued on the 3rd December 2006. I had to wait a while for a new prop to be finished so I used my old home made prop for ground runs. During the last week I carried out some high speed taxi runs along the runway and found some temperature problems with the Corvair engine, both oil temp and cylinder head temps. I improved the baffleing and managed some better cooling figures. After a few high speed taxi runs the oil temp was near the high end of normal but the cylinder temps were OK. My old prop was developing 2500 rpm static. When the new one arrived, only 2300 rpm was realised. I also changed the castor angle on the tailwheel to make the rudder more responsive on the ground. Yesterday I managed to get a few flights down the runway with both props, all was looking good although the prop rpm was still less than I would have liked. Today dawned cool and calm so I decided the first flight was in order. I did a high speed taxi first and after that was Ok I decided it was time to fly. I applied full power and the Piet climbed gracefully into the circuit. The rpm improved a little but was still well below the power band of the Corvair. The aircraft handled well but with a need for slight left rudder to maintain the heading. A good landing followed and I taxied back to the hangar. On the way back to the hangar the oil temp was again climbing a little higher than I liked. I was feeling really good. After an hour or so my hangar mate asked if I was going to do another flight. He had missed the first one. I said yes and taxied out to the runway again. The outside temp had gone up a few degrees and a slight breeze had started, probably only a couple of knots or so. I taxied out to runway 22 (there are more out field landing areas at the end of 22 than on 04) and started the take off roll with just a tad of tailwind. A slow climb out followed with the feeling that the engine was not developing anywhere near the full power. The temps were starting to climb higher than normal so I made a tight circuit and lined up for a landing on the grass beside RW 22. The airspeed was a little high over the fence so I pulled back the power and pulled the nose slightly higher to reduce the speed. The flare was a little fast and a bounce followed. I was about to catch it with power when the engine quit. I hit the grass and with little airflow over the rudder, ground looped the Piet into the embankment at the side of the runway. The starboard undercarriage collapsed and I got a large ding in the leading edge of the starboard wing near the tip when it connected with the post of the electric fence along the top of the embankment. So much for a good second flight. With some help from the guys on the air field we managed to get the Piet back into the hanger on a trike trailer. Looks like I shall be buying some steel tubing for the undercarriage after Christmas and carrying out the repair on the wing. I have enough materials for that. The conclusions? make sure the plane is running correctly before flying and don't fly just to please someone else, especially in conditions that are not what you are happy with. I am still very happy that the first flight was successful and that the Piet flies like it should. I just need to get the correct prop sorted out and the repairs carried out and I will be a happy camper again. I have posted some pictures on my web site at http://www.cpc-world.com/main.php?insert_file=loop.php Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 5:39 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Sorry to hear about the mishap. I do want to complement you on your great photos that cleared up a few questions I had and gave me some solutions. Your method for the turtle deck stringers was great, I could see doing that allot easier than cutting all those slots and such. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 12:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First (and second) Flight > > > Hi Guys, > > Here is a quick story of my first two flights. Both are very memorable > occasions...... > > > I had finished the Pietenpol at the beginning of December and had the > Certificate of Airworthiness issued on the 3rd December 2006. I had to > wait > a while for a new prop to be finished so I used my old home made prop for > ground runs. During the last week I carried out some high speed taxi runs > along the runway and found some temperature problems with the Corvair > engine, both oil temp and cylinder head temps. I improved the baffleing > and > managed some better cooling figures. After a few high speed taxi runs the > oil temp was near the high end of normal but the cylinder temps were OK. > My > old prop was developing 2500 rpm static. When the new one arrived, only > 2300 > rpm was realised. I also changed the castor angle on the tailwheel to make > the rudder more responsive on the ground. Yesterday I managed to get a few > flights down the runway with both props, all was looking good although the > prop rpm was still less than I would have liked. > > Today dawned cool and calm so I decided the first flight was in order. I > did > a high speed taxi first and after that was Ok I decided it was time to > fly. > I applied full power and the Piet climbed gracefully into the circuit. The > rpm improved a little but was still well below the power band of the > Corvair. The aircraft handled well but with a need for slight left rudder > to > maintain the heading. A good landing followed and I taxied back to the > hangar. On the way back to the hangar the oil temp was again climbing a > little higher than I liked. > > I was feeling really good. > > After an hour or so my hangar mate asked if I was going to do another > flight. He had missed the first one. I said yes and taxied out to the > runway > again. The outside temp had gone up a few degrees and a slight breeze had > started, probably only a couple of knots or so. I taxied out to runway 22 > (there are more out field landing areas at the end of 22 than on 04) and > started the take off roll with just a tad of tailwind. A slow climb out > followed with the feeling that the engine was not developing anywhere near > the full power. The temps were starting to climb higher than normal so I > made a tight circuit and lined up for a landing on the grass beside RW 22. > The airspeed was a little high over the fence so I pulled back the power > and > pulled the nose slightly higher to reduce the speed. The flare was a > little > fast and a bounce followed. I was about to catch it with power when the > engine quit. I hit the grass and with little airflow over the rudder, > ground > looped the Piet into the embankment at the side of the runway. The > starboard > undercarriage collapsed and I got a large ding in the leading edge of the > starboard wing near the tip when it connected with the post of the > electric > fence along the top of the embankment. > > So much for a good second flight. > > With some help from the guys on the air field we managed to get the Piet > back into the hanger on a trike trailer. > > Looks like I shall be buying some steel tubing for the undercarriage after > Christmas and carrying out the repair on the wing. I have enough materials > for that. > > The conclusions? make sure the plane is running correctly before flying > and > don't fly just to please someone else, especially in conditions that are > not > what you are happy with. > > I am still very happy that the first flight was successful and that the > Piet > flies like it should. I just need to get the correct prop sorted out and > the > repairs carried out and I will be a happy camper again. > > > I have posted some pictures on my web site at > http://www.cpc-world.com/main.php?insert_file=loop.php > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > -- > 5:39 PM > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2006
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: radiators low?
Having the radiator set high also helps with a thermal siphoning effect. The Model T engines originally used no water pump at all. They relied on thermal siphoning. As the water in the engine heated it rose up the pipe into the top of the radiator where it was cooled and sank being taken back into the engine by the lower hose. My '14 T will run all day long in Central CA's 100+ summer heat without any heating problems. Model A's on the other hand had a pump but the thermal siphon effect has to do it's part. Jeff, I assume that the main reason why the radiator should be placed high is so that air and steam (if any) will collect at the top, in the radiator top collector, rather than bubbling up the hose to where the water pump is. You don't want air or steam in the water pump. And of course the other reason is that you want the water pump drawing the coolest water, which is at the bottom of the radiator. If your radiator is down low, the pump has to pull it up rather than having gravity assist it. Let the water pump push the hot water to the radiator, which keeps pressure on it and prevents cavitation. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends list. __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2006
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Don, Yeah, can't see aluminum skin making the wing as "brick solid" when done, as the ply. walt evans NX140DL "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 10:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib > > Another thing I noticed is that the wing really stiffens up once the > leading edge ply is glued to the leading edge and to the ribs. Many > things on the plans work together and serve more purposes than just what > might be first apparent. > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82022#82022 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <cphill(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: air tran to sun fun
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Hey Malcolm...when is it? Carl ______________________________________________________________________ Carl Hill cphill(at)frontiernet.net 304.947.7981 (o) 989.225.1920 (c) 304.947.5022 (fx) for a look at some interesting stuff..click here!! http://www.p3psales.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Malcolmbru(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: air tran to sun fun >I just booked non stop too and from sun fun for $218.60 on air tran using > ther home page hope to see you ther mal michigan > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Peter, Sorry to hear of the damage but hats off to you for your "let's get on with the repairs" attitude. Beautiful airplane. Any idea why the engine stopped? Looking forward to hearing about your repairs as they progress. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 11:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First (and second) Flight > > > > I have posted some pictures on my web site at > http://www.cpc-world.com/main.php?insert_file=loop.php > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > -- > 5:39 PM > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
Peter, Congratulations on having a great attitude. Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PietChat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
Good morning! '-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Subject: need info to evaluate GN-1 Biplane build in AZ area
I located a GN 1 project in AZ its the biplane configuration of the GN-1 Skycamper .Are there any builders in the Pheonix area that may be able to check it out for or with me, if I need the help? I have no experience in evaluating a build and less in evaluating a bi plane, the fuse is covered and all builders notes are available. Pretty much all I klnow at this point! Please advise John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2006
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Attaching Leading Edge to Rib
Is amazing when we build any airplane we are bulding a "Flying Structure"... This is why they are light and strong, Light is a must, for flying performance and to have less inertia in case of a hard landing (strong but not as a Currency Truck (sp?) . Dont overbuild any airplane please... any of us, A light airplane (in design specs) can save our lifes better than a "rolling cage". Saludos Gary Gower Another thing I noticed is that the wing really stiffens up once the leading edge ply is glued to the leading edge and to the ribs. Many things on the plans work together and serve more purposes than just what might be first apparent. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82022#82022 __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First (and second) Flight
Date: Dec 17, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Glad you had a good first flight and too bad about the second one however looking at it on the positive side ,you have a nice hole in the front of the wing for a landing light if you should decide to install one there.Good luck on your next flight after you get everything sorted out.Looking forward to hearing about it.Looking forward to hearing what your engine problems were as well.Since we all use engines it's a good idea to find out what others have run into as far as troubles go.Keep em flyin! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <margdick(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Change of e-mail address to: margdick(at)earthlink.net
Date: Dec 17, 2006
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Subject: Re: air tran to sun fun
april 17 (tuesday) till april 23 (monday) moor info is on the link I sent sat ev along with the show in sebring in january ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: need info to evaluate GN-1 Biplane build in AZ area
Date: Dec 17, 2006
I've seen this airplane about 3 weeks ago. I met with the widow and looked over the project. Call me and I can tell you what I know about it. DJ Vegh 602.743.5768 ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 11:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: need info to evaluate GN-1 Biplane build in AZ area I located a GN 1 project in AZ its the biplane configuration of the GN-1 Skycamper .Are there any builders in the Pheonix area that may be able to check it out for or with me, if I need the help? I have no experience in evaluating a build and less in evaluating a bi plane, the fuse is covered and all builders notes are available. Pretty much all I klnow at this point! Please advise John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: radiators low?
Date: Dec 17, 2006
Jeff, Are you thinking about Lowell Frank's Funk(inverted B) powered red Piet, he had it at Brodhead 1992. Than he sold it to Jobeth Barrett who brought it to Brodhead 94, 95 and 96. Skip > [Original Message] > I recall at Brodhead one year a Piet that was powered by a B (I > think) that had two radiators under the engine with frame running > fore and aft. Duct work directed airflow in from the front, then 90 > degrees to run across the face of the radiators. The airflow exited > through controlled slats on the lower sides of the cowling. I > apologize if my memory is playing tricks on me. I've never even seen > pix of this Piet since. > Thanks for any input, > Jeff > -- > > _____________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: First (and second) Flight
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Nice one Harvey, I'll have to equip it for Night VFR. With regard to the engine stopping, I have been having problems with the mixture at idle and I think I have let my idle setting get too low. When I pulled back on the power the idle would have slowed the prop a lot, getting it too slow would cause the prop/engine to stop. As I said before, don't fly unless everything is working as it should. There is "Experimental" and "I'll just try this!" Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of harvey.rule(at)bell.ca Sent: Monday, 18 December 2006 5:49 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First (and second) Flight Glad you had a good first flight and too bad about the second one however looking at it on the positive side ,you have a nice hole in the front of the wing for a landing light if you should decide to install one there.Good luck on your next flight after you get everything sorted out.Looking forward to hearing about it.Looking forward to hearing what your engine problems were as well.Since we all use engines it's a good idea to find out what others have run into as far as troubles go.Keep em flyin! -- 5:39 PM -- 3:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: radiators low?
Skip, Yes! This is the plane. Do you know anything about how it cooled and performed otherwise? Jeff >Jeff, >Are you thinking about Lowell Frank's Funk(inverted B) powered red Piet, he >had it at Brodhead 1992. Than he sold it to Jobeth Barrett who brought it >to Brodhead 94, 95 and 96. >Skip > > >> [Original Message] > >> I recall at Brodhead one year a Piet that was powered by a B (I >> think) that had two radiators under the engine with frame running >> fore and aft. Duct work directed airflow in from the front, then 90 >> degrees to run across the face of the radiators. The airflow exited >> through controlled slats on the lower sides of the cowling. I >> apologize if my memory is playing tricks on me. I've never even seen >> pix of this Piet since. > >> Thanks for any input, > >> Jeff >> -- >> > > _____________________________________________________________ >> -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: radiators low?
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Jeff, I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has any cooling issues. If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for the movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. Skip > > Do you know anything about how it cooled and > performed otherwise? > Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: radiators low?
Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his Piet. I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to write more articles for the newsletter. > >Jeff, >I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said >the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has >any cooling issues. >If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be >real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for the >movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >Skip > > >> >> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >> performed otherwise? > > > Jeff > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Scott and Wayne, Thanks very much for the specific advice. This is exactly the type of advice I was hoping for, from someone with first-hand experience. I'll try the GWS IPS unit as-is, and if I feel I need more performance, I'll upgrade to a brushless motor. Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Peter, Congratulations on your first and second flight. The first one confirms all your years of hard work. The second one builds character and makes you a better pilot. I know you had some temperature issues before, and I would look there for your engine trouble. Plus most engine outs are fuel related. High CHT could cause detonation resulting in power drop (200-300 RPM less) what fuel do you use? High under cowling temps could cause vapor lock in the fuel line, starting with a drop in engine rpm or total stop. My first flight advisor suggested a static 4 minute full power run with the tail low before of the first flight (4 minutes of full power will get you out of a lot of trouble) Your engine should perform as advertised during this test, no high temperatures, the Pietenpol is not a fast airplane so cooling will not improve a whole lot with airspeed. Engines cool down during cruise because they get throttled back, burn less fuel and create less heat. Welcome to the world of test pilots! Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Hi People! Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the owner and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in Sullivan, Wi. The plane had not been touched in two yrs. Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a really well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer at Brodhead. About the airfoil! Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612. It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating. Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord thickness. Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the Piet airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show. At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed, greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his plane climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than any of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full throttle. These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted them out. The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill Rewey about these airfoils. I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will build one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built and they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I hadn't started assembling the wing yet. Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? > > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his Piet. > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to > write more articles for the newsletter. > >> >> >>Jeff, >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has >>any cooling issues. >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for >>the >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >>Skip >> >> >>> >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >>> performed otherwise? >> >> > Jeff >> > > -- > > _____________________________________________________________ > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis > mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First (and second) Flight
Peter, Which oil cooler are you using? We had the same problem with high oil temp on our first few flights. Origionally, Dad had a 7 plate oil cooler installed, but changed it to a 12 plate oil cooler. This only took an hour or so to do, not counting the ground runs and leak checks. We flew all summer in 90+ degree days with no further trouble. I think dad ordered his cooler from clarks corvair and it was less than $100 I believe, and installed it a week or so after he ordered it. Also, I don't think we had to do any modification to the baffling, just unbolt the old cooler and bolt on the new. As far as a prop we have a Hegy 66-30 and get 3100rpm static, 3300 unloaded on climbout. Good luck with the repairs, and don't woory about the patches in the fabric. They add charactor, proud battle scars. You'll be flying again in a couple months or so. Shad __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Roman, I am quite interested in the two full sized airfoils as mentioned. Please give me a mailing address so I may send you my last $10.00. Corky 625 Pierremont Rd Shreveport, La 71106 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Roman, Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot? Al Lyscars Portland, Maine It is called a GA-30U-612. > It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It > far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Interesting, after I finish my Piet and start getting bored because I don't have anything to build I can build a second wing. I will be sending you $10 also. I hate to even think about what the 'build it to the plans' purists are going to say about this. Rick On 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt wrote: > > conceptmodels(at)tds.net> > > Hi People! > Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred > radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he > thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the > owner > and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in > Sullivan, Wi. > The plane had not been touched in two yrs. > Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it > running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a > military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a > renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. > This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a > really > well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer at > Brodhead. > About the airfoil! > Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not > build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing > airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil > designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612. > It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It > far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. > Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating. > Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a > thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. > The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord > thickness. > Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the > front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the Piet > airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show. > At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed, > greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his > plane > climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than > any > of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full > throttle. > These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We > evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted > them out. > The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill > Rewey > about these airfoils. > I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to > anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will > build > one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not > been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built and > they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I > hadn't > started assembling the wing yet. > > Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> > To: > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? > > > > > > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his > Piet. > > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to > > write more articles for the newsletter. > > > >> > >> > >>Jeff, > >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He > said > >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it > has > >>any cooling issues. > >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be > >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about > >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for > >>the > >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. > >>Skip > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and > >>> performed otherwise? > >> > >> > Jeff > >> > > > > -- > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD > > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA > > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis > > mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sounds like something of interest to me also, what's the address? I haven't started building yet but always interested in improvements. John -----Original Message----- From: alyscars(at)maine.rr.com Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil Roman, Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot? Al Lyscars Portland, Maine It is called a GA-30U-612. > It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It > far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
So what address do we need to send the ten bucks to??? I would be interested in at least looking it over..I saw Mr. Lowell's piet climb out at Brodhead too, but thought it's great performance was just because of the large diameter prop that he had on the big radial engine. ......Ed G. >From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil >Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:08:45 -0700 > >Interesting, after I finish my Piet and start getting bored because I don't >have anything to build I can build a second wing. I will be sending you $10 >also. I hate to even think about what the 'build it to the plans' purists >are going to say about this. > >Rick > >On 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt wrote: >> >>conceptmodels(at)tds.net> >> >>Hi People! >>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred >>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he >>thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the >>owner >>and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in >>Sullivan, Wi. >>The plane had not been touched in two yrs. >>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it >>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a >>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a >>renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. >>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a >>really >>well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer at >>Brodhead. >>About the airfoil! >>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not >>build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing >>airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil >>designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612. >>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It >>far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. >>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating. >>Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a >>thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. >>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord >>thickness. >>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the >>front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the Piet >>airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show. >>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed, >>greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his >>plane >>climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than >>any >>of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full >>throttle. >>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We >>evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted >>them out. >>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill >>Rewey >>about these airfoils. >>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to >>anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will >>build >>one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not >>been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built and >>they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I >>hadn't >>started assembling the wing yet. >> >>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> >>To: >>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? >> >> >> >> > >> > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his >>Piet. >> > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him to >> > write more articles for the newsletter. >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>Jeff, >> >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He >>said >> >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it >>has >> >>any cooling issues. >> >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would >>be >> >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >> >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for >> >>the >> >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >> >>Skip >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >> >>> performed otherwise? >> >> >> >> > Jeff >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > >> > _____________________________________________________________ >> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD >> > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA >> > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis >> > mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Rick Holland > >"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Shame, Shame on anybody even THINKING about using this morphodite, parasitic, foreign airfoil. Bernie is rolling over in his grave! Where do I send my ten bucks? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Hey Dan, to be safe send only cash (unmarked bills) and have the airfoil plans sent to an anonymous post office box. Then go to the post office and check for reception of the plans only between 2 and 3 in the morning and go in a borrowed (or stolen) car. This will ensure you will not be castigated for committing this abomination on the name of Piethood. Rick On 12/18/06, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: > > *Shame, Shame on anybody even THINKING about using this morphodite, > parasitic, foreign airfoil. Bernie is rolling over in his grave!* > ** > *Where do I send my ten bucks? > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 18, 2006
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Roman, I'll be sending you my $10. Not suprised there's a better-performing airfoil - the undercamber looks pretty on paper, but I never could see what advantage there was - just adds drag I suspect. I think Bernard settled on that airfoil just because he 'liked' the way it looked. Just finished my "traditional" rib jig, but what the heck! Kip Gardner > >Hi People! >Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred >radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me >he thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of >the owner and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at >her hangar in Sullivan, Wi. >The plane had not been touched in two yrs. >Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it >running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a >military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve >her a renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. >This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying >a really well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it >next summer at Brodhead. >About the airfoil! >Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did >not build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better >performing airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who >also did airfoil designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a >GA-30U-612. >It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no >undercamber. It far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. >Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor >rating. Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil >with even a thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. >The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% >chord thickness. >Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from >the front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness >from the Piet airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 >airfoil, it would show. >At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher >speed, greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. >I saw his plane climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and >double the altitude than any of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp >wasn't even running at full throttle. >These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. >We evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we >plotted them out. >The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by >Bill Rewey about these airfoils. >I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is >available to anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I >definitely will build one of the two for my Piet. I understand that >the 613.5 airfoil has not been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full >set of the Piet ribs all built and they'll be available for sale at >Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I hadn't started assembling the >wing yet. > >Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? > >> >>Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on >>his Piet. I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher >>will get him to write more articles for the newsletter. >> >>> >>> >>>Jeff, >>>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He said >>>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it has >>>any cooling issues. >>>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would be >>>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >>>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert for the >>>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >>>Skip >>> >>>> >>>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >>>> performed otherwise? >>> >>> > Jeff >>> >> >>-- >> >>_____________________________________________________________ >>Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD >>Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA >>Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis >>mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu >> >> >> >> >> > > -- North Canton, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: First (and second) Flight
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Hans, Shad, Thanks for the comments. I have the 8 plate cooler but have just ordered a 12 plate from Clarks. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Vander Voort Sent: Tuesday, 19 December 2006 1:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First (and second) Flight Peter, Congratulations on your first and second flight. The first one confirms all your years of hard work. The second one builds character and makes you a better pilot. I know you had some temperature issues before, and I would look there for your engine trouble. Plus most engine outs are fuel related. High CHT could cause detonation resulting in power drop (200-300 RPM less) what fuel do you use? High under cowling temps could cause vapor lock in the fuel line, starting with a drop in engine rpm or total stop. My first flight advisor suggested a static 4 minute full power run with the tail low before of the first flight (4 minutes of full power will get you out of a lot of trouble) Your engine should perform as advertised during this test, no high temperatures, the Pietenpol is not a fast airplane so cooling will not improve a whole lot with airspeed. Engines cool down during cruise because they get throttled back, burn less fuel and create less heat. Welcome to the world of test pilots! Hans -- 3:17 PM -- 3:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2006
I'm sure there are better airfoils out there but heck, that's part of the Pietenpol legend! When people ask about the wing you won't be able to tell them all about Mr. Pietenpol's highly technical research. Kidding aside the old one ain't too bad either. On 65hp. I just flew my 230lb. dad and 185lb. me around the other day at 78-80mph, out climbed the cub I used to fly, and landed at around 32mph or so. Not too bad for his trial and error engineering. I guess I lean toward the purists though! :-) Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82310#82310 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Hi Roman, I am just starting my Piet in Australia and am about to lay up the wing ribs. I would be interested in these Riblett airfoils. Would you be able to post the co-ordinates for these airfoils? Regards, JohnW ---- Original Message ---- From: conceptmodels(at)tds.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 08:31:53 -0600 > > >Hi People! >Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred >radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he > >thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the >owner >and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in > >Sullivan, Wi. >The plane had not been touched in two yrs. >Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it >running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a >military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve >her a >renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. >This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a >really >well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next >summer at >Brodhead. >About the airfoil! >Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did >not >build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better >performing >airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did >airfoil >designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612. >It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no >undercamber. It >far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. >Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor >rating. >Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even >a >thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. >The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord > >thickness. >Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from >the >front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the >Piet >airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would >show. >At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher >speed, >greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw >his plane >climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude >than any >of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full >throttle. >These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We > >evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we >plotted >them out. >The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by >Bill Rewey >about these airfoils. >I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is >available to >anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely >will build >one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has >not >been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all >built and >they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I >hadn't >started assembling the wing yet. > >Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? > > > >> >> Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on >his Piet. >> I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get >him to >> write more articles for the newsletter. >> >>> >>> >>>Jeff, >>>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. >He said >>>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think >it has >>>any cooling issues. >>>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he >would be >>>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >>>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert >for >>>the >>>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >>>Skip >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >>>> performed otherwise? >>> >>> > Jeff >>> >> >> -- >> >> _____________________________________________________________ >> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD >> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA >> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis >> mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 18, 2006
One thing to keep in mind, then I'll stop preaching, with other airfoils on the Piet, is the rear most C.G. for that particular airfoil. Especially since Piets tend to be tail heavy. Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil is fairly forgiving of rear C.G.. Just be sure to know the limits. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82364#82364 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
RomanBukolt 6505 Urich Terrace Madison, Wi 54719 ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil Hey Dan, to be safe send only cash (unmarked bills) and have the airfoil plans sent to an anonymous post office box. Then go to the post office and check for reception of the plans only between 2 and 3 in the morning and go in a borrowed (or stolen) car. This will ensure you will not be castigated for committing this abomination on the name of Piethood. Rick On 12/18/06, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: Shame, Shame on anybody even THINKING about using this morphodite, parasitic, foreign airfoil. Bernie is rolling over in his grave! Where do I send my ten bucks? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. www.aeroelectric.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Roman Bukolt 6505 Urich Terrace Madison, Wi. 53719 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil > > So what address do we need to send the ten bucks to??? I would be > interested in at least looking it over..I saw Mr. Lowell's piet climb out > at Brodhead too, but thought it's great performance was just because of > the large diameter prop that he had on the big radial engine. ......Ed G. > > >>From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> >>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil >>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:08:45 -0700 >> >>Interesting, after I finish my Piet and start getting bored because I >>don't >>have anything to build I can build a second wing. I will be sending you >>$10 >>also. I hate to even think about what the 'build it to the plans' purists >>are going to say about this. >> >>Rick >> >>On 12/18/06, Roman Bukolt wrote: >>> >>>conceptmodels(at)tds.net> >>> >>>Hi People! >>>Talking about the Red Piet which has the Funk engine and the louvred >>>radiator inside the cowl on the side of the engine, Lowell told me he >>>thoiught it was for sale. Last summer I talked to the husband of the >>>owner >>>and he said it was. Lowell and I met with the owner at her hangar in >>>Sullivan, Wi. >>>The plane had not been touched in two yrs. >>>Lowell spent about 2 hrs. and about 150 prop flips to finally get it >>>running. Jo Beth Barrett, who incidently also own a Stearman and a >>>military Taylorcraft, then taxied it around on the runway. It geve her a >>>renewed interest in the plane and she decided not to sell it. >>>This turned out to be a good thing for me because I ended up buying a >>>really >>>well crafted Piet from Ray Hill, Baxter, IA. You'll see it next summer >>>at >>>Brodhead. >>>About the airfoil! >>>Lowell Frank currently has a Pietenpol with a radial engine. He did not >>>build this plane but he did build a new wing with the better performing >>>airfoil. The airfoil was designed by Harry Riblett who also did airfoil >>>designs for NASA and Burt Rutan. It is called a GA-30U-612. >>>It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. >>>It >>>far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. >>>Riblett did an analysis of the Piet airfoil and gave it a poor rating. >>>Riblett said, even better than the GA-30U-612 is an airfoil with even a >>>thicker chord called the GA-30U-613.5. >>>The 12 defines the 12% thickness and the 13.5 defines the 13.5% chord >>>thickness. >>>Lowell chose to build the 612 because when looking at his Piet from the >>>front one doesn't notice the difference in airfoil thickness from the >>>Piet >>>airfoil but he was afraid that buildingt the 13.5 airfoil, it would show. >>>At any rate the 612 airfoil demonstrates much better climb, higher speed, >>>greater lift, slower and more gentle stall characteristics. I saw his >>>plane >>>climb out at Brodhead in half the distance and double the altitude than >>>any >>>of the other Piets and the engine, 90hp wasn't even running at full >>>throttle. >>>These airfoils caught the interest of both Bill Rewey and myself. We >>>evaluated them, Bill had conversations with Harry Riblett and we plotted >>>them out. >>>The next issue of the Brodhead Newsletter will have an article by Bill >>>Rewey >>>about these airfoils. >>>I have plotted out both airfoils full size and either one is available to >>>anyone who's interested for $10 including shipping. I definitely will >>>build >>>one of the two for my Piet. I understand that the 613.5 airfoil has not >>>been tried on a Piet yet. I have a full set of the Piet ribs all built >>>and >>>they'll be available for sale at Brodhead next summer. Fortunately I >>>hadn't >>>started assembling the wing yet. >>> >>>Roman Bukolt NX20795 and (NX88XN reserved) >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> >>>To: >>>Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:55 AM >>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: radiators low? >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Lowell was talking about a new airfoil that he's been testing on his >>>Piet. >>> > I'd like to hear more about that, too. Maybe Doc Mosher will get him >>> > to >>> > write more articles for the newsletter. >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>Jeff, >>> >>I did talk to Lowell Frank about the plane last year at Brodhead. He >>>said >>> >>the performance is better than the normal Ford Piet. I don't think it >>>has >>> >>any cooling issues. >>> >>If someone on the list knows how to contact Loewll, I'm sure he would >>>be >>> >>real happy to talk to you about it. He is very knowledgeable about >>> >>airplanes and engines, he was the antique airplane technical expert >>> >>for >>> >>the >>> >>movie Red Betsy, and loves to talk about airplanes. >>> >>Skip >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Do you know anything about how it cooled and >>> >>> performed otherwise? >>> >> >>> >> > Jeff >>> >> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > >>> > _____________________________________________________________ >>> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD >>> > Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA >>> > Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis >>> > mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>Rick Holland >> >>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Roman Bukolt 6505 Urich Terrace Madison, Wi. 53719 ----- Original Message ----- From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil Sounds like something of interest to me also, what's the address? I haven't started building yet but always interested in improvements. John -----Original Message----- From: alyscars(at)maine.rr.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil Roman, Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot? Al Lyscars Portland, Maine It is called a GA-30U-612. > It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. It > far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
Date: Dec 18, 2006
Roman Bukolt 6505 Urich Terrace Madison, Wi. 53719 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil > > > Roman, > > Where do I send my ten bucks for a plot? > > Al Lyscars > Portland, Maine > > It is called a GA-30U-612. >> It has a deeper chord, rounder leading edge and almost no undercamber. >> It >> far outperforms the Pietenpol airfoil. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
Don, This CG ~ pitching factor bothers me, too. ESPECIALLY me, as I will explain. But I would like to use the Riblett foil. Following is a long post that BEGINS to deal with it. I got the Riblett plot months ago, had talked with Lowell and Roman then, and bought the drawing from Roman. I own and have read Riblett's "GA Airfoils" text. I've met Bill Rewey and admire his thinking. I think that Bill Rewey, Lowell Frank, and Roman Bukolt are onto something here. I see that Corky is interested, too. I respect their opinions, for they have done so much more than I. I have been spending a lot of analytical cycles here, in particular because of my own pitching moment issues. Overall, I conclude that adopting this airfoil can have many BENEFITS for most Piet builders. The possible exceptions are fat boys like me, and for these very CG ~ pitching moment reasons. First, there's the Riblett airfoil to consider. It looks great to me, amateur that I am. Here is what I have found: 1. Compared to the BP foil, each with a 60" inch chord, the Riblett is about an inch taller above the chord, and an inch lower below the chord. If it has ANY inverse camber on the lower surface, it is very slight. It looks much like a NACA 2412 or NACA 4412, except with a 13.5% thickness, it is obviously thicker than the others, which have a thickness at max. of 12% of chord. The Riblett foil also seems, even given this, to have a disproportionately larger LE radius. The Riblett foil stays thicker longer along its length, both above and below the chord. 2. This shape should allow laminar air flow farther rearward on the surface-- both upper and lower-- than most "turbulent" airfoils-- all mentioned herein. The combo of the the larger radius, more thickness, and less attenuation of that thickness (esp. on upper surface) gives most the Riblett most of its the desirable qualties. 3. The more streamlined lower surface (like some laminar airfoils, but not as pronounced) gives some of Riblett's better L/D qualities. (Riblett's lower surface has more streamlining than the flat lower surface of the Clark Y, for instance, and we know about the parachute-like lift and drag qualities of the Piet lower surface.) 4. My own observations do not come just from charts. I have laid one of the BP style ribs against a couple of my own NACA plots (2412 and 4412), a Clark Y plywood template (one I was given), my own Riblett plot, and Roman's Riblett rib drawing. The differences between them all, and the possible advantages of the Riblett, really jump out thus, when overlaid in full scale. 5. I conclude that the Riblett is a worthy airfoil. I believe from what I see that it almost certainly will have at least these attributes-- faster speed, better handling, a better glide ratio, and a softer stall. It should also have comparable slow landing speeds to the BP foil. (We might only know this from a side-by-side test.) It might well also have faster climb, from having perhaps as much lift (maybe more) and far less drag in climb than the Piet foil. It should have less sensitivity in its lift to the pilot's chosen angle of attack. People who know a lot more about all this than I should chime in. First please look at the data cited below. I would like to use the Riblett airfoil. Not only does it look good on paper, Riblett foils are supported by some USERS as well. Some of them are commercial. I have attached an article (SEE ATTACHMENT, a "Word" doc) that I believe I copied from Mike Schuck's airfoil.com website. It has some computations and an endorsement by a pro. Here's the only rub-- it almost certainly won't have the pitching moment of the Piet, which is the BP foil's saving grace for fat boys like me. The foregiving nature of the BP airfoil as a mitigating factor for fat boys is especially needed, as I understand it, with the long fuze Piet. Such is my second fuze-- Corky's second Piet. Don, you may recall my impressive girth when we met. (We were tent neighbors at Brodhead.) It is no better now, I fear. I am adapting Corky's well built plane. Corky built this plane for his lesser weight, and still moved the MM's forward 2-3" of BP's. I weigh 270, but have used 280 in my CG spreadsheets. With the Piet airfoil and an A-65 engine, I am planning to move the motor mounts 10" forward of BP's (he weighed 130, I am told by a Pieter who met him), and move the wings 4" back of vertical. By comparison I believe that Chuck Gantzer moved his mounts 8" forward of BP's with an A-65 and with more pilot weight than BP (less than mine), hit his CG computations empirically as well, and believes his CG is right on the mark for handling. I am still studying this. I am having a couple of other problems that are keeping me from building anything right now, anyway, so it's OK for now. But I want to start building quickly and well as soon as I can. Were I to use the Riblett airfoil, I might move the engine forward another inch (to 11" more than BP's) , add a 22# battery before the firewall for strobes and more. I'll have to watch for a tipping point on the LG on the ground, though, for the venue of a full tank and no pilot. Moreover, I also might swing the wings back 5". To get the 5" swing, I would plan to heighten the cabanes to 28"F, 27" R. This is almost 2" taller than any other I know has done, so I would stiffen the forward struts to the firewall and stiffen the front cabane. This cabane height, even with the wings so far back, gives me room enough to better get my unwieldy body into the cockpit (missing the left wing while negotiating the center wing flipper cavity), and lessens the cabane angles to get the 5" rearward wing displacement. In short, The sum of all these steps would likely get the CG closer in worst case to the 25% mark than the maximum 33.3% percent of chord tolerated by the BP foil. (It does, on paper, for now.) Emprically, when I KNOW what everything weighs, and borrow my $1500 EAA chapter's digital scales, I would start swinging the wings and messing with the cabanes, as needed. (I'd have a 20# temporary weight for the tail handy for awhile, too.) These steps still might not be enough to accommodate the Riblett. I don't yet know its pitching moment relative to that of the BP foil. Of course, if I can match the plane and its CG to my needs, I will have to add 50 pounds somewhere for my test pilot. A better solution for me, and with many other positives, is a year-long love affair with Jenny Craig. In any event, your point is VERY valid. Before I build the first Riblett rib, I will have someone-- likely Mike Schuck-- run the Riblett foil through X-foil and compare it to BP's. Mike has said he would do this. I need to get some more data from him, but the ball is in my court right now. I will also talk with Harry Riblett. And also several of the builders on the site. Thereafter I will post the results of this and my amateur analysis on the Piet Matronics site. How does all this sound to you? And to others? Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
One other related question that would be interesting to run by Roman and the more knowledgeable people on this group concerning the Riblett airfoil on a Piet would be this, if someone had a completed Piet with a three piece wing could he keep the center section and just build new left and right sections. Especially if he had a CC fuel tank, flop, etc. Rick > > > I got the Riblett plot months ago, had talked with Lowell and Roman then, > and bought the drawing from Roman. I own and have read Riblett's "GA > Airfoils" text. I've met Bill Rewey and admire his thinking. I think that > Bill Rewey, Lowell Frank, and Roman Bukolt are onto something here. I see > that Corky is interested, too. I respect their opinions, for > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Tim, Rather than adapting other airfoils, redesigning wings or longer motor mounts. Would it not be much easier to move the rear seat forward ? The gross weight of a Pietenpol is around 1100 lbs Average empty weight being 650 Lbs Leaves 375 Lbs for pilot(s) and 75 Lbs of fuel. Heavy pilots will have to find (very) light passengers. Convert the front seat space to baggage space and enjoy the Piet by yourself. Just my two cents. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Rick, If I read Tim's e-mail correctly the Riblett airfoil is 2 higher. A 2 higher Spar ? The original center section would not look right. On the other hand a 2" higher center section could hold a bigger fuel tank and a 2 higher spar could be thinner (perhaps 1/2" rather than 3/4" spruce boards) Hans "Rick Holland" To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment 12/19/2006 02:09 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com One other related question that would be interesting to run by Roman and the more knowledgeable people on this group concerning the Riblett airfoil on a Piet would be this, if someone had a completed Piet with a three piece wing could he keep the center section and just build new left and right sections. Especially if he had a CC fuel tank, flop, etc. Rick I got the Riblett plot months ago, had talked with Lowell and Roman then, and bought the drawing from Roman. I own and have read Riblett's "GA Airfoils" text. I've met Bill Rewey and admire his thinking. I think that Bill Rewey, Lowell Frank, and Roman Bukolt are onto something here. I see that Corky is interested, too. I respect their opinions, for -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
Hans, Those are good points. Here's my take: 1. I want the Riblett wing, if I can use it, to have a better airplane (IMO). 2. I have to move the motor mounts forward, and the wings back, etc., no matter which wing I am using, IF: a) I am using the light Continental A-65 engine; b) I continue to weigh too damned much; c) as you say, I leave it a two-place airplane. 3. I have fleetingly thought of making it single-place, to solve these issues in one fell swoop. [I would have had to do it with my earlier short fuzed Piet.] Making it single-place would also allow for thicker and more comfortable upholstery. Only one thing stops me-- where would I stow those Victoria Secret models and the like, who, as well all know, are attracted to Pietenpols, and can thus tolerate such an ugly pilot as me, for the ride? On a more realistic (harumph) note, Corky had mounted the panel including instruments, the stick, etc., with excellent placement, and I hate to mess with any of that. And it might butcher the plane at this stage. Thanks for the input, and I will keep it well in mind. Argh. Every change ripples, and the ripples have ripples, and eddies of their own. Tim -----Original Message----- >From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> >Sent: Dec 19, 2006 2:33 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment > > >Tim, > >Rather than adapting other airfoils, redesigning wings or longer motor >mounts. > >Would it not be much easier to move the rear seat forward ? > >The gross weight of a Pietenpol is around 1100 lbs >Average empty weight being 650 Lbs >Leaves 375 Lbs for pilot(s) and 75 Lbs of fuel. > >Heavy pilots will have to find (very) light passengers. >Convert the front seat space to baggage space and enjoy the Piet by >yourself. > >Just my two cents. > >Hans > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Here's another ripple to consider (I never liked Ripple - I always preferred Thunderbird): Making the nose that much longer may adversely affect yaw stability. A Pietenpol has a pretty small vertical fin and yaw stability in a long fuse Piet is marginal at best. I know I can stomp on the rudder in mine and take both feet off and it takes a long time for it to start pointing into the wind again. I wonder how an extra 10" of nose would affect that. Jack Phillips Intrigued by the notion of a better airfoil to get more climb out of my heavy Piet -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment --> Hans, Those are good points. Here's my take: 1. I want the Riblett wing, if I can use it, to have a better airplane (IMO). 2. I have to move the motor mounts forward, and the wings back, etc., no matter which wing I am using, IF: a) I am using the light Continental A-65 engine; b) I continue to weigh too damned much; c) as you say, I leave it a two-place airplane. 3. I have fleetingly thought of making it single-place, to solve these issues in one fell swoop. [I would have had to do it with my earlier short fuzed Piet.] Making it single-place would also allow for thicker and more comfortable upholstery. Only one thing stops me-- where would I stow those Victoria Secret models and the like, who, as well all know, are attracted to Pietenpols, and can thus tolerate such an ugly pilot as me, for the ride? On a more realistic (harumph) note, Corky had mounted the panel including instruments, the stick, etc., with excellent placement, and I hate to mess with any of that. And it might butcher the plane at this stage. Thanks for the input, and I will keep it well in mind. Argh. Every change ripples, and the ripples have ripples, and eddies of their own. Tim -----Original Message----- >From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> >Sent: Dec 19, 2006 2:33 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment > >--> > >Tim, > >Rather than adapting other airfoils, redesigning wings or longer motor >mounts. > >Would it not be much easier to move the rear seat forward ? > >The gross weight of a Pietenpol is around 1100 lbs >Average empty weight being 650 Lbs >Leaves 375 Lbs for pilot(s) and 75 Lbs of fuel. > >Heavy pilots will have to find (very) light passengers. Convert the >front seat space to baggage space and enjoy the Piet by yourself. > >Just my two cents. > >Hans > > _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Subject: Riblett airfoil
Tim Willis: Hans sort of has a good point, but even better how about eliminating the rear cockpit all together, At 270 lbs I doubt your Piet could ever carry a passenger very well at all. (no offense meant) I've always thought a more practical Sky Scout is an Aircamper with only a front cockpit. Leon S. In Ks. anticipating another big winter storm. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Subject: Don's airfoil post
Guys, Seeing as it has taken me these six looooong years to get this far on my Piet, with the wing being completed first, I myself am in no humor to make a new wing. I still have a few years to go the way it is. I think I'll stick with Bernie's wing and not upset the gods (my wife). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
In a message dated 12/19/2006 1:44:03 PM Central Standard Time, timothywillis(at)earthlink.net writes: This CG ~ pitching factor bothers me, too. ESPECIALLY me, as I will explain. But I would like to use the Riblett foil. You guys are ALL giving me a serious case of The Hiebie Jiebie's !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
Tim, I did not realize you had your fuse already built But Jack already mentioned it, adverse jaw is more of an issue than an optimum airfoil. I fly a long fuse Pietenpol and it has a lot of adverse jaw. I would not recommend making the nose any longer. If you must consider making rudder and fin larger too (this adds weight again and at the wrong end) Another option already mention by Leon, use the front cockpit. On my W&B 20 Lbs equals about 5" rear cockpit is at 58" and I weigh 190 At 270 you will need to move forward 20" to maintain balance With little shifting of the wing forward (cabanes neutral or leaning forward) you could get there. Pain to get in the front pit though. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Subject: you are a experimental airpl?= =?UTF-8?Q?ane
builder if? Just cam across this on another list, had to share it. You=99re an experimental airplane builder if - You have ever had a conversation involving the words =9Cmi l-spec=9D and =9CAN.=9D - The majority of your tools aren=99t available at Sears. - You always have fresh scars on your hands, even though you have a desk job. - People ask if you have a hobby and their follow up question is =9C are you nuts?=9D - You have at least 15 unfinished projects that aren=99t air planes. - Your first reaction when purchasing any non-food item is =9CI can build that.=9D - Your first reaction when purchasing any food item is =9CI gotta get some beer to go with that.=9D - You know what Oshkosh is and where to find it. - You know that Alodine is not a place in Texas. - Someone says =9Chey look a Moose=9D and you look up in the sky. - You can=99t look at anything mechanical without thinking o f a way to =9Cimprove=9D the design. - Cleveland is a brand, not a place in Ohio. - You=99ll pay hundreds of dollars to save two pounds in avi onics, but you=99re 20 lbs overweight and somehow that=99s OK. - When people ask what you got for Christmas you have to explain what it is. - A dragon fly isn=99t an insect. - You know who Burt Rutan is and you think sideburns are kinda cool. - A lay up has nothing to do with basketball. - You haven=99t parked your car in your garage in years. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
Gyro and P-factor? No mention of LG placement so far. Once the wing position is decided upon then the LG placement has to relate to the Chord. Piets look funny with trike landing gear. Why not put a heavier engine in it? After all, it was designed for a 244 lb Ford. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:46 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment > > > Here's another ripple to consider (I never liked Ripple - I always > preferred Thunderbird): > > Making the nose that much longer may adversely affect yaw stability. A > Pietenpol has a pretty small vertical fin and yaw stability in a long > fuse Piet is marginal at best. I know I can stomp on the rudder in mine > and take both feet off and it takes a long time for it to start pointing > into the wind again. I wonder how an extra 10" of nose would affect > that. > > Jack Phillips > Intrigued by the notion of a better airfoil to get more climb out of my > heavy Piet > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Willis > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:08 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment > > > --> > > Hans, > > Those are good points. Here's my take: > > 1. I want the Riblett wing, if I can use it, to have a better airplane > (IMO). > > 2. I have to move the motor mounts forward, and the wings back, etc., > no matter which wing I am using, IF: > > a) I am using the light Continental A-65 engine; > b) I continue to weigh too damned much; > c) as you say, I leave it a two-place airplane. > > 3. I have fleetingly thought of making it single-place, to solve these > issues in one fell swoop. [I would have had to do it with my earlier > short fuzed Piet.] Making it single-place would also allow for thicker > and more comfortable upholstery. Only one thing stops me-- where would > I stow those Victoria Secret models and the like, who, as well all know, > are attracted to Pietenpols, and can thus tolerate such an ugly pilot as > me, for the ride? > > On a more realistic (harumph) note, Corky had mounted the panel > including instruments, the stick, etc., with excellent placement, and I > hate to mess with any of that. And it might butcher the plane at this > stage. > > Thanks for the input, and I will keep it well in mind. > > Argh. Every change ripples, and the ripples have ripples, and eddies of > their own. > > Tim > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> >>Sent: Dec 19, 2006 2:33 PM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment >> >>--> >> >>Tim, >> >>Rather than adapting other airfoils, redesigning wings or longer motor >>mounts. >> >>Would it not be much easier to move the rear seat forward ? >> >>The gross weight of a Pietenpol is around 1100 lbs >>Average empty weight being 650 Lbs >>Leaves 375 Lbs for pilot(s) and 75 Lbs of fuel. >> >>Heavy pilots will have to find (very) light passengers. Convert the >>front seat space to baggage space and enjoy the Piet by yourself. >> >>Just my two cents. >> >>Hans >> >> >> >> >> > > > _________________________________________________ > > > -- > 12/19/2006 1:17 PM > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Riblett airfoil
Not quite. It's designed for a smaller engine. Shorter wing. Shorter fuse. Lighter. When dealing with engines and weight you should REALLY study these formulie and punch some numbers in. Remember, the real HP of Lycs and Continentals is a minimum of 20% less than rated and the "A" put out 36 hp. http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/Part5/Standards/549/sub-b.htm#549.109 Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett airfoil > > Tim Willis: Hans sort of has a good point, but even better how about > eliminating the rear cockpit all together, At 270 lbs I doubt your Piet > could ever carry a passenger very well at all. (no offense meant) I've > always thought a more practical Sky Scout is an Aircamper with only a > front cockpit. Leon S. In Ks. anticipating another big winter storm. > > > -- > 12/19/2006 1:17 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 19, 2006
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: you are a experimental airplane builder =?iso-8859-1?Q?if=85?
At 09:32 PM 12/19/2006, you wrote: >- You haven=99t parked your car in your garage in years. A garage is for cars? Dave N36078 '41 BC-12-65 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Don's airfoil post
Date: Dec 19, 2006
Hey Dan, Stick with the wing you've built. You won't be sorry. The flatlands of Illinois don't require aggressive climb rates. You will have fun no matter which airfoil you use. Don't think of the BHP airfoil as inferior, think of it as unique. NX18235 has the original airfoil and I'm perfectly happy. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Don's airfoil post Guys, Seeing as it has taken me these six looooong years to get this far on my Piet, with the wing being completed first, I myself am in no humor to make a new wing. I still have a few years to go the way it is. I think I'll stick with Bernie's wing and not upset the gods (my wife). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuselage gussetts
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Robin HART" <robin.hart(at)ecu.edu.au>
I am slowly gathering the courage to begin Piet construction in ernest by following Bingelis' advice and starting with a mockup. As the fuselage sides start to take shape on the bench, I have come across the first of many opportunities to exhibit my technical inadequacy. As I understand it, the plans call for gussett plates on both inboard and outboard surfaces of the fuselage sides. This would imply than the cross members between the fuselage sides are glued to the inboard surfaces of the gussett plates, rather than the inboard surfaces of the spruce longerons themselves. Is this how others have interpreted the same construction detail or am I missing something? It occurred to me that gluing to the ply might be weaker than gluing directly to the spruce. Happy to be told otherwise. I'd like to get these details clear in my mind before cutting expensive sitka; I'm sure esteemed list members will understand! On a separate note I would like to congratulate Peter from Wonthaggi on the first flights of VH-UFZ. VH-PTN (as close as I could get to a rego similar to the designer's name!) is around a decade behind you! Will try to get over to Vic to have closer look in the new year, assuming I'm not imposing unduly on your time. Thanks to all. Rob Hart, PhD Adjunct Associate Professor School of Exercise, Biomedical and Health Sciences Edith Cowan University P: +61 8 6461 9404 F: +61 8 6461 9499 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: fuselage gussetts
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Robin, Its the gusset that adds the strength, not necessarily the glue on the bracing members. I put gussets on both sides of the fuse, glued the bracing members to them and then added gussets to the longeron/bracing members. You are more than welcome to come and visit. Check out the web site (http://www.cpc-world.com) for lots of pictures of the construction. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin HART Sent: Wednesday, 20 December 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage gussetts I am slowly gathering the courage to begin Piet construction in ernest by following Bingelis' advice and starting with a mockup. As the fuselage sides start to take shape on the bench, I have come across the first of many opportunities to exhibit my technical inadequacy. As I understand it, the plans call for gussett plates on both inboard and outboard surfaces of the fuselage sides. This would imply than the cross members between the fuselage sides are glued to the inboard surfaces of the gussett plates, rather than the inboard surfaces of the spruce longerons themselves. Is this how others have interpreted the same construction detail or am I missing something? It occurred to me that gluing to the ply might be weaker than gluing directly to the spruce. Happy to be told otherwise. I'd like to get these details clear in my mind before cutting expensive sitka; I'm sure esteemed list members will understand! On a separate note I would like to congratulate Peter from Wonthaggi on the first flights of VH-UFZ. VH-PTN (as close as I could get to a rego similar to the designer's name!) is around a decade behind you! Will try to get over to Vic to have closer look in the new year, assuming I'm not imposing unduly on your time. Thanks to all. Rob Hart, PhD Adjunct Associate Professor School of Exercise, Biomedical and Health Sciences Edith Cowan University P: +61 8 6461 9404 F: +61 8 6461 9499 -- 1:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip-Cinda Gadd" <csfog(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: fuselage gussetts
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Hi Rob, > [Original Message] > From: Robin HART <robin.hart(at)ecu.edu.au> > This would imply than the cross members between the fuselage sides are glued to the inboard surfaces of the gussett plates, rather than the inboard surfaces of the spruce >longerons themselves. Correct, glue the cross members to the gusset plates. > It occurred to me that gluing to the ply might be weaker than gluing directly to the spruce. The gusset gives the joint almost all of it's strength, a butt joint by itself is not very strong. Do a couple tests with scrap wood and see for yourself. Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: Gene Beenenga <kgbunltd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: lost it!
once more, please give me the email/web page sources for Piet (and it had other models) models RC and others thanks, Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: lost it!
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Gene, The model I have to build is a kit, rather than plans. It includes plans, but the plans are not available seperately. The model is made by Dumas. The webpage is http://www.dumasestore.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=50_63 Or you can buy from Tower Hobbies http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBDG9&P=0 Or, for a set of plans, there is a set available. DJ Vegh posted the plans for his 1/7 scale model on the Mykitplane site http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=7 Hope that helps. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Gentlemen, Many piet builders have used the method of attaching the jury strut to the flying strut with a metal band wrapped around the flying strut. This is the method I plan to use. I'll be using the large aluminum Skytek struts similar to Larry William's bird. What materials are used for the band? If you have a close up photo of your fab job, please send them to me at gbacon67(at)hughes.net Thanks guys! Merry Christmas. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Greg, Here's a link to a picture I took at Brodhead, of Ken Perkins' jury strut attachment strap. http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=bhead050133 . JPG&PhotoID=3182 Like everything else on Ken's plane, it's very nicely done. I think Ken's plane has steel lift struts, not aluminum. Looks to me like a band of stainless steel, but I could be wrong. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
I plan to insert a solid aluminum bar about 1.50" long into the alumiunum strut where the jury strut mounts will be. I'll then drill out 3/16" for an AN43 eyebolt. I'll attach the jury struts to those eyebolts. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Bacon To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 6:53 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method Gentlemen, Many piet builders have used the method of attaching the jury strut to the flying strut with a metal band wrapped around the flying strut. This is the method I plan to use. I'll be using the large aluminum Skytek struts similar to Larry William's bird. What materials are used for the band? If you have a close up photo of your fab job, please send them to me at gbacon67(at)hughes.net Thanks guys! Merry Christmas. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Besides the vertical jury struts, most installations that I've seen (as in NX41CC) also include fore-and-aft stiffener between the verticals. A beautiful example is John Dilatush's "Mountain Piet", which was done somewhat like DJ is talking about doing except John's struts were steel and he welded in a bushing through a hole in the streamline tubing, then used an eyebolt to secure the struts to. Photo is the third one from the bottom at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I used 4130 steel cut to spec as per the drawings;bent and drilled by a machinist.He also welded on the vertical piece for the downward strut attachment.The cross piece attached at the same point as the downward piece but if you so desire it can be cut shorter and attach at the bolt that holds the bracket on the main strut.Actually in looking at it closr now I think it would have been better had I used the second method of attaching the cross piece at the bolt holding the bracket because it would put less stress on the weld point of the vertical connection.You can make out some of the parts if you blow up the desired area on the computer. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Bacon Sent: December 20, 2006 8:53 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method Gentlemen, Many piet builders have used the method of attaching the jury strut to the flying strut with a metal band wrapped around the flying strut. This is the method I plan to use. I'll be using the large aluminum Skytek struts similar to Larry William's bird. What materials are used for the band? If you have a close up photo of your fab job, please send them to me at gbacon67(at)hughes.net Thanks guys! Merry Christmas. Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I noticed also that his attachments are further up the main strut making his jury struts shorter.He would be attaching at a different point on the wing.I'm wondering what difference if any this would make in the wings performance?It certainly would save you in material if this was not a problem.Very nice clean looking job though.Matter of fact his whole plane is a work of art. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: December 20, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method Besides the vertical jury struts, most installations that I've seen (as in NX41CC) also include fore-and-aft stiffener between the verticals. A beautiful example is John Dilatush's "Mountain Piet", which was done somewhat like DJ is talking about doing except John's struts were steel and he welded in a bushing through a hole in the streamline tubing, then used an eyebolt to secure the struts to. Photo is the third one from the bottom at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John_piet.html Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
What is the purpose of the cross piece? My plane does not have them, but we've been thinking about adding them "just because". >I used 4130 steel cut to spec as per the drawings;bent and drilled >by a machinist.He also welded on the vertical piece for the downward >strut attachment.The cross piece attached at the same point as the >downward piece but if you so desire it can be cut shorter and attach >at the bolt that holds the bracket on the main strut.Actually in >looking at it closr now I think it would have been better had I used >the second method of attaching the cross piece at the bolt holding >the bracket because it would put less stress on the weld point of >the vertical connection.You can make out some of the parts if you >blow up the desired area on the computer. -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I imagine that they are for braising the main struts at the =BD way point.Just a guess. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: December 20, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method What is the purpose of the cross piece? My plane does not have them, but we've been thinking about adding them "just because". I used 4130 steel cut to spec as per the drawings;bent and drilled by a machinist.He also welded on the vertical piece for the downward strut attachment.The cross piece attached at the same point as the downward piece but if you so desire it can be cut shorter and attach at the bolt that holds the bracket on the main strut.Actually in looking at it closr now I think it would have been better had I used the second method of attaching the cross piece at the bolt holding the bracket because it would put less stress on the weld point of the vertical connection.You can make out some of the parts if you blow up the desired area on the computer. -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Re: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Guys The only reason for the jury struts are to keep the main struts from bowing on a hard landing or during negative G's. The cross braces are there to keep the main struts from bowing sideways (forward and back) during these times. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Cold weather head gear
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Well if you do try to fly it up the Alaska Highway let me know, I will send you some helpful info like the Airmen's Logbook and a Milepost! Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gbowen(at)ptialaska.net Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear Rob, Come on down, I'm in the phone book. My Piete will remain in FL, Homer only gives me about 5 mos./yr flying weather. Except this summer it was only about 3 mos. If it wasn't for the 22 gal tank and limited range, I'd think about flying the Alcan someday but probably if plane is to make it to AK it will be on a trailer. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: foto(at)alaska.net Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:27:12 -0900 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear When I get my Piet done I will fly down from Anchorage! Rob Stapleton www.eaa42.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:59 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > Gene, > You gotta miss AK. RE headgear, I have an older buddy that is good > withelectronics, he took a $100 full face shield motorcycle helmet and > installed a speaker in one ear, then hooked up to his handheld with > push to > talk button. I've tried it, but have a hard time understanding air > trafficwith one speaker, could be just his wiring. Suspect the > fleece lined cap > from airspruce would work on any type of headset. DC's keep the > ears warm > and the wind battering you get in an open cockpit plane is > minimized with > the cap. > Gotta a place in Homer AK for 9 mos. year. Piete flyers welcome to > comevisit. > Gordon Bowen > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gene & Tammy zharvey(at)bellsouth.net > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:37:25 -0600 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cold weather head gear > > > > Gordon, > Spent most of my life in Alaska (1960 to 1985 full time and up > until this > year half time as a captain for Alaska Clean Seas in the Arctic.) > so I'm > use > to being out in the cold but this humidity in the south is killling > me. I > have looked at the hats in Airspruce but don't own a set of David > Clarksand > don't want to spend the money to get a set. I was hoping someone > may have > made a helmet and still had the pattern. I agree on the motor > cycle > goggles. They look great! > Thanks > Gene > N502R > ----- > ----------------- > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > -- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------- ------------ > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > _- ======================================== ================== > _- ======================================== ================== > _- ======================================== ================== > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuselage gussetts
Rob This is one of many questions that will occur to you and things you will learn by building the mockup. I studied the plans for weeks before starting and the question you mentioned never occurred to me. One other thing that surprised me when building my mockup was the bottom front cross member doesn't contact the longerons OR the ply gussets, it can't because the lower engine mount fitting goes against the gusset. Have fun. Rick On 12/20/06, Robin HART wrote: > > > I am slowly gathering the courage to begin Piet construction in ernest by > following Bingelis' advice and starting with a mockup. As the fuselage > sides start to take shape on the bench, I have come across the first of many > opportunities to exhibit my technical inadequacy. As I understand it, the > plans call for gussett plates on both inboard and outboard surfaces of the > fuselage sides. This would imply than the cross members between the > fuselage sides are glued to the inboard surfaces of the gussett plates, > rather than the inboard surfaces of the spruce longerons themselves. Is this > how others have interpreted the same construction detail or am I missing > something? It occurred to me that gluing to the ply might be weaker than > gluing directly to the spruce. Happy to be told otherwise. I'd like to get > these details clear in my mind before cutting expensive sitka; I'm sure > esteemed list members will understand! > > On a separate note I would like to congratulate Peter from Wonthaggi on > the first flights of VH-UFZ. VH-PTN (as close as I could get to a rego > similar to the designer's name!) is around a decade behind you! Will try to > get over to Vic to have closer look in the new year, assuming I'm not > imposing unduly on your time. > > Thanks to all. > > Rob Hart, PhD > Adjunct Associate Professor > School of Exercise, Biomedical and Health Sciences > Edith Cowan University > P: +61 8 6461 9404 > F: +61 8 6461 9499 > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I always thought jury struts were there to stop wing warping.Things I've heard around the old guys. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: December 20, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method Guys The only reason for the jury struts are to keep the main struts from bowing on a hard landing or during negative G's. The cross braces are there to keep the main struts from bowing sideways (forward and back) during these times. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Re: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
How would the wings possibly warp with two fixed attach points, two fixed length main struts, and two stiff spars? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Re: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
The strut material BP used was very stiff and reinforced if you study the cross section, and did not need the jury struts. This strut material is not available any more in these modern times, thus, the need for jury struts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
High Flight Articles Volume II No. 4 Page 69 - 1982 ________________________________ JURY STRUTS: Whazzat? By Don Langer, IMAA 1020 You probably know about flying and landing wires on bipes and ancient monos. Most scale builders include these for looks only. I recommend they be made totally functional on any Quarter-size or larger model. The Jury Strut serves nearly the same purpose as the landing wires in that it insures the integrity of the wing during negative "G" situations. The wing strut alone is fine for positive "G" loads if properly set up; but without a functional Jury Strut that same wing strut is prone to bowing and snapping when air pressure (or a small child) pushes down on your wing. A 20 to 30 inch 1/2" x 1/4" spruce (or other equally feeble) strut is just fine for those who fly straight and level with a totally vibration-free engine... and every landing. However, some of us do fly in a somewhat different manner and must concern ourselves with struts that work under both tension and compression. Not less than one of the popular jumbo kit manufacturer leaves this lifesaving device completely off, or merely includes it for scale appearance only. Current production kits may have improved in this area, but the Howard DGA-6 (Mister Mulligan) I built two years ago showed "fake" Jury Struts on the plans; the upper ends were to be run up through small plywood plates in the underside of the wing. The Citabria kit I just finished didn't show a thing. I've seen a beautiful J-3 Cub assembled and flown with the "fake" Jury Struts missing those little holes, which caused an unsightly and dangerous half-inch bow in the struts. As in skinning cats and mounting canopies, there are probably a thousand and one ways to set up struts and Jury Struts. Here's how I've done it on two different airplanes. 1. DuBro LG Straps for 1/8" gear (DuBro #238) - 8 ea. 2. * Goldberg LG Straps (Goldberg #LGS-50) - 8 ea. 3. ** Machine screws, 2-56x3/8" w/blind nuts - 16 ea. 4. 1/8" piano wire (if not supplied in kit) 5. 1/8" ply scrap (not lite-ply) * * Used to stand off Jury Strut ends 1/16" from covering material. * ** Can be replaced with #2 or #3 x 3/8" wood screws if you dare. And please, Hot-Stuff the pilot holes if you do. I stole this from the internet;can't take credit.it explains better the reason for jury struts.Wing warp was probably the wrong term to use although I have seen it actually happen with some ultralights. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Dan, it's something to watch. On a model I had, high wing, with struts and a nine foot wingspan. The first flight was exciting. I checked it carefully and didn't notice the warped wing. After take off, it took full aileron to maintain level flight. I was just happy to get it on the ground. Jack www.textors.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method How would the wings possibly warp with two fixed attach points, two fixed length main struts, and two stiff spars? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: diesel Piet
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
http://www.wilksch.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pietflyr" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
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Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Harvey, Thanks for the jury strut article, Jeff -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Atlanta, GA 30322 Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision http://www.molvis.org/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: diesel Piet
Date: Dec 20, 2006
G-BUXK, the Piet in the photos on the website that Mike posted, appears to have jury struts on the front main wing struts only, none on the aft struts and none connecting fore and aft struts. Interesting. The failure mode that we're trying to prevent by using jury struts is buckling of the struts under negative-G loading, such as in a very hard landing, a microburst event (!), or (heaven forbid) a negative-G aerobatic maneuver. In compression, the struts are considered to be "slender" structural elements given their dimensions and stiffness, thus the primary buckling failure mode would be best prevented by installing the jury struts at the midpoint of the strut length. I guess installing the jury struts further out (making them shorter) would be better than not having them at all, but the question is, "why?" The amount of material saved by making them a few inches shorter would be insignificant. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping Sales & Deals http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0639 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2006
It's funny. I bought that Dumas kit about 2 years ago. I went online for some kit bashing ideas and ended up consumed with the idea of building the real deal. Never would have thought that model could have had moved me into the direction it has but I'm glad all the same. Real plane - almost half the ribs done. Model - still in box. I've been thinking about building it lately. Do you cover it with Litespan or tissue? It will be my first electric. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82745#82745 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
There is a picture of Steve Eldredge's Piet at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/SteveE.jpg Steve's attachments seem to be very simple and clean. Anybody seen them up close to see how they are done? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Jury struts
Addressing the subject of placement of the jury struts: My eyeball engineering and gut feeling says that harmonic vibration of the struts would not be a factor in a slow vehicle such as the Piet. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: strut harmonics
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I've noted that at various power settings my wing struts vibrate so I just adjust the power a titch when I see that going on. A local guru (another authority like me---yeah right !) suggested that I tie a lead fishing sinker to the bottom of where my jury struts attach and I was going to do that just to see but never did. What the heck--it would be a good excuse to go flying and physics-wise his suggestion made sense. In real life flying I encounter my worst negative g loading on the airplane on hot bumpy days when the jarring is bad enough to jerk the stick out from my hand. I don't have a g-meter in the plane but I'm sure those wing know and thank God for those itty bitty jury struts out there---esp. for the most dangerous maneuver I perform-----The landing. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Riblett airfoil
Thanks to all for the input on this. All of it is good, sound, and appreciated. The best solution is for me to lose weight. It not only leads to a far better plane, but a far better and longer life. I have not found this very easy to do. I appreciate the several posts on LG, yaw and other handling issues from a farther-forward engine. LG positioning had looked marginal at the extremes, and I had considered needing more rudder, but not to the degree expressed from real-world usage in a Piet. Chuck, I will proceed slowly in my case on the change to Riblett or anything else radical. I have an OK life right now and don't want to worsen or end it from pushing any envelope. Clif, thanks for the formula. I ran it, inputting a max. of 1225#, right at the sport pilot limit, and AS A WORST CASE-- nothing I want to do. It solved for 47 hp reqd. with a 28 ft. wingspan. The 47hp is 73% of the A-65's nominal figure. In these ranges, each foot of added wingspan takes off 1hp min.reqd.. Each 100 pounds off gross weight takes off 5 hp from minimum required hp. Once again, it proves lighter is better. Someone may want to run their own numbers on their craft, either to check me, or even better, to share them. Thanks & regards, Tim in ce. TX -----Original Message----- >From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> >Sent: Dec 19, 2006 9:20 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett airfoil > > >Not quite. It's designed for a smaller engine. >Shorter wing. >Shorter fuse. >Lighter. > >When dealing with engines and weight you should >REALLY study these formulie and punch some >numbers in. Remember, the real HP of Lycs and >Continentals is a minimum of 20% less than rated >and the "A" put out 36 hp. > >http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/Part5/Standards/549/sub-b.htm#549.109 > >Clif > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:06 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett airfoil > > >> >> Tim Willis: Hans sort of has a good point, but even better how about >> eliminating the rear cockpit all together, At 270 lbs I doubt your Piet >> could ever carry a passenger very well at all. (no offense meant) I've >> always thought a more practical Sky Scout is an Aircamper with only a >> front cockpit. Leon S. In Ks. anticipating another big winter storm. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 12/19/2006 1:17 PM >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: one man's jury strut attach method
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
See attached photo for how I installed my jury struts. I copied, plagiarized, and otherwise blatantly stole an age-tested design that was used by Aeronca Champ aircraft. Mike C. see attachment ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: diesel Piet
Date: Dec 21, 2006
Oscar, The Piets built to the Jim Wills UK plans only have one jury strut (as does mine). Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, 21 December 2006 8:35 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: diesel Piet G-BUXK, the Piet in the photos on the website that Mike posted, appears to have jury struts on the front main wing struts only, none on the aft struts and none connecting fore and aft struts. Interesting. The failure mode that we're trying to prevent by using jury struts is buckling of the struts under negative-G loading, such as in a very hard landing, a microburst event (!), or (heaven forbid) a negative-G aerobatic maneuver. In compression, the struts are considered to be "slender" structural elements given their dimensions and stiffness, thus the primary buckling failure mode would be best prevented by installing the jury struts at the midpoint of the strut length. I guess installing the jury struts further out (making them shorter) would be better than not having them at all, but the question is, "why?" The amount of material saved by making them a few inches shorter would be insignificant. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping Sales & Deals http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0639 -- 1:17 PM -- 1:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: diesel Piet
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Oscar, Pretty much all of the British Pietenpols seem to have only the one jury strut on the front strut. Check out the photo gallery at http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/ One exception is Arthur Mason's G-ADRA, which has photos with both configurations (single and double jury struts). Looks like he tried one, then changed to the other. I think that the PFA approved plans have the single jury strut, as opposed to the official BHP plans, which do not show jury struts at all. (Although they are recommended). As for the best point to attach the jury strut, yes, the mid point would provide the best location to avoid buckling, but as Jack pointed out, the midpoint would be a node, and if vibration was to occur at the correct frequency, you could potentially get into harmonic vibration, which can be a bad thing in a structure (and a good thing in a musical instrument). Google the Tacoma Narrows Bridge if you aren't familiar with the concept. Making your attach point just a little off of the midpoint should be enough to avoid problems. Bill C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Re: Jury struts
In a message dated 12/20/2006 3:55:15 PM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes: Addressing the subject of placement of the jury struts: My eyeball engineering and gut feeling says that harmonic vibration of the struts would not be a factor in a slow vehicle such as the Piet. Dan, Harmonics Certainly IS a factor in the Pietenpol. The engine causes vibrations, as well as the slipstream. I've experienced short negative G's that Mike C. spoke about, and Jack P. gave a good explanation as to why the Jury Struts are NOT in the middle of the Lift Struts. Jury struts Should be used on both the for and aft lift struts. Here is some pics of how I did mine: http://nx770cg.com/Wing.html A high speed connection would be advised, because there are so many pictures. Scroll down through, and you'll see the construction of the entire wing. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Re: Funk piet and Riblett airfoil
In a message dated 12/18/2006 12:38:59 PM Central Standard Time, flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes: I saw Mr. Lowell's piet climb out at Brodhead too, but thought it's great performance was just because of the large diameter prop that he had on the big radial engine. ......Ed G. You would be correct, Ed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Dec 20, 2006
Subject: Re: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Hi, I used the Skytek large struts and found it was simple enough to run a # 10 bolt through the strut to hold a stainlrss steel angle to which I bolted the jury strut. I used a very short piece of the 1" aluminum bar stock which matches the internal 'flats' of the the large strut to back the hole site, I drilled a hole through the block and it makes for a solid mount for the strut connection. Looks OK too . Lou Larsen (its 78 here in the middle of Florida) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2006
How you attach the jury strut to the main strut is less important than where. The purpose of the jury strut is to avoid vibration in the main strut, All materials have a point where vibration becomes harmonic and destruction follows. To avoid harmonic vibration DO NOT place the jury strut at the halfway point. Place it "off - center" (4 " in or out does not matter). On how to attach the jury strut, look at any Cub, Champ or Citabria. There many ways to do it right. Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Don's post on Riblett pitching moment
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2006
In my experiences in talking with other Piet builders/pilots then going on to build and fly my own I have come up with these couple of ideas. And I'm only saying this to try to avoid someone else's heartache. I'm not trying to rain on someone else's experimenting parade. (If there is such a thing) Lots of plan changes + lots of extra weight = lots of dissapointment Little plan changes + little or no extra weight = little or no dissapointment I know it sounds corny, but the more Piet pilots you meet the more you will see this. Don Emch Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82795#82795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model Pietenpol
Date: Dec 20, 2006
From: n925wb1(at)aol.com
Glenn, You could cover it with anything you'd like. Litespan, tissue, So-Lite (iron-on film), or any other light weight material would work just fine. I'd bet that dope and tissue would give the most authentic look, though. -Wayne www.taildraggersinc.com -----Original Message----- From: glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 2:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model Pietenpol It's funny. I bought that Dumas kit about 2 years ago. I went online for some kit bashing ideas and ended up consumed with the idea of building the real deal. Never would have thought that model could have had moved me into the direction it has but I'm glad all the same. Real plane - almost half the ribs done. Model - still in box. I've been thinking about building it lately. Do you cover it with Litespan or tissue? It will be my first electric. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=82745#82745 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Bacon" <gbacon67(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method - Thanks
Guys!
Date: Dec 20, 2006
I greatly appreciate all of your input and the additional info on jury struts. There are many ways to attach them, as I've seen from my 4 visits to Brodhead. It's always worthwhile to listen to experienced opinions and see examples. By the way, the Mountain Piet wing repair is coming along nicely. Most of the woodwork is completed. My goal is to begin the covering process in January 2007. I have the Poly Fiber manual and the introduction kit to play with while I'm waiting for T88 to cure. This is a lot of fun. I can see myself building a whole plane someday. But for now, the goal is to get John's Mountain beauty back in the air. I do intend to fly to Brodhead in July '07. Cheers! Greg Bacon Prairie Home, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 21, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I think it was more to do with model radio controlled planes but I think the idea is the same. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 21, 2006
Subject: Strut vibration
Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. rather than east to Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Strut vibration
Date: Dec 21, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Does this apply to the bottom right strut as well? -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leon Stefan Sent: December 21, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. rather than east to Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Date: Dec 21, 2006
Hi Lou, Did you also use the "Skytek" struts for the CENTER Fuse to wing struts? Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method Hi, I used the Skytek large struts and found it was simple enough to run a # 10 bolt through the strut to hold a stainlrss steel angle to which I bolted the jury strut. I used a very short piece of the 1" aluminum bar stock which matches the internal 'flats' of the the large strut to back the hole site, I drilled a hole through the block and it makes for a solid mount for the strut connection. Looks OK too . Lou Larsen (its 78 here in the middle of Florida) <http://www.buildersbooks.com> <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Strut vibration
Sounds logical Leon, so just attach the wing struts to the fueslage using castle nuts and pins. Sorry you won't get to experience this blizzard, I-25 is still closed, drifts in my back yard are over four feet, Lockheed has been shut down for two days. Reminds me of the snow days we used to have back in elementary school in Evergreen. Rick On 12/21/06, Leon Stefan wrote: > > > Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back > issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten > the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave > a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its > movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and > failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as > Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs > flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a > sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. > rather than east to Ks. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: snow day for Rick Holland
Date: Dec 21, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Wow Rick, tha is really something. I heard there were about 4,700 people stuck at the airport in Denver. Glad to hear you've got some Pietenpol working time on your hands---or Christmas preparation time. (Quanza or happy holiday time for you whimps or men with no backbone...of which I hope we have none on the list:) Hard to imagine that kind of weather when at Brodhead a few months ago we were sweating in our tents at 2 AM ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 21, 2006
Subject: Lift strut vibration
" Does this apply to the lower right strut as well?" Harvy: "leave a little slack" (words of BHP in the old news letter) applied to the lower end of all 4 lift struts. No problem up top because those"lolly pop" fittings are actually a hinge. I don't recall if the guy he was talking to used jury struts or no jurys. BHP as you know didn't so I'm sure he had vibration even though the streamline tubing he used was formed with the 4 stiffener ribs made into them. None of this may even be a problem with vibration dampening jury struts. It was interesting to look at Alan Rudolphs lift struts at Brodhead. If you get a chance to see these struts check them out. Interesting note on vibration--It's fun to watch the radio antenna on my pickup as I drive. Its made of thin wire and sometimes I see 3 waves of vibration in it as I drive. Dave Abramson--Sorry I couldn't read your question. Yours and many others have started showing up on my screen as dark blue text on a slightly darker blue back ground. Maybe Santa will bring me a new computer and a Hooters babe to show to use it. Rick--Your winter pictures kind of make us long for those mild Ohio winters don't it. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: snow day for Rick Holland
That's right Mikey, 4700 poor slobs had to sleep on the granite floor at DIA last night, which may have been better than the guys that had to spend the night in their cars. The airport may not open again till tomorrow now. They even had to cancel the Avalanche-Calgary hockey game tonight, that's the worst part of it. Imagine spending two or three days with the wife and a few young kids at DIA waiting for a flight out to the mid west for Christmas, which happens to be where this storm is currently headed (you guys keep your snow shovels handy). Glad I ain't going no place. And yes, now that I have the driveway plowed (only took two hours) I believe I will retire to the garage and get some work done on the wing struts Jack sold me. Merry Christmas (an extremely white Christmas in my case). Rick On 12/21/06, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote: > > Wow Rick, tha is really something. I heard there were about 4,700 > people stuck at the airport in Denver. Glad to hear you've got some > Pietenpol working time > on your hands---or Christmas preparation time. (Quanza or happy holiday > time for you whimps or men with no backbone...of which I hope we have none > on the list:) > > Hard to imagine that kind of weather when at Brodhead a few months ago we > were sweating in our tents at 2 AM ! > > Mike C. > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 21, 2006
Subject: Re: Strut vibration
In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, lshutks(at)webtv.net writes: Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. rather than east to Ks. Leon, I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it would wallow out the bolt holes. That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is still closed down from yesterday !! Merry Christmas to all !! Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2006
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Peanut Pietenpol
Model builders....might want to consider the nifty Peck Polymers Peanut Scale Pietenpol as well. http://www.peck-polymers.com/html/peanuts.htm They're available from various shops on the 'net, just happened to have this one bookmarked. Still studying plans...thinking about making a rib jig..and getting ready for all four kids, two with husbands, and three grandkids to arrive this evening for the holiday weekend! Son has been delayed in getting into Minneapolis..apparently they had to de-ice the runway, so his flight in was delayed..then he's got a 4 hour ride "up north" with his sister in rain/ice. Ish! Tim in bovey == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PIETLARS29(at)wmconnect.com
Date: Dec 21, 2006
Subject: Re: Jury Strut - flying wing strut attach method
Dave, Yes, thats what I did. It worked out nicely because the strut length is 10 feet; I bought 4 and carlson, (Skytek) cut them into 8', 2'' sections which stowed nicely in my van. I had asked them for the specs and the details of their strut design for one of their own aircraft designs and also bought some 1" square bar stock which mates with the internal flats of the strut and fabricated the end attachments out of the bar stock per the detail drawing. I lengthened the cabanes about 2" so it all worked out nicely. Lou ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lift strut vibration
Date: Dec 22, 2006
There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a great holiday season.....Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Leon Stefan<mailto:lshutks(at)webtv.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strut vibration lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) " Does this apply to the lower right strut as well?" Harvy: "leave a little slack" (words of BHP in the old news letter) applied to the lower end of all 4 lift struts. No problem up top because those"lolly pop" fittings are actually a hinge. I don't recall if the guy he was talking to used jury struts or no jurys. BHP as you know didn't so I'm sure he had vibration even though the streamline tubing he used was formed with the 4 stiffener ribs made into them. None of this may even be a problem with vibration dampening jury struts. It was interesting to look at Alan Rudolphs lift struts at Brodhead. If you get a chance to see these struts check them out. Interesting note on vibration--It's fun to watch the radio antenna on my pickup as I drive. Its made of thin wire and sometimes I see 3 waves of vibration in it as I drive. Dave Abramson--Sorry I couldn't read your question. Yours and many others have started showing up on my screen as dark blue text on a slightly darker blue back ground. Maybe Santa will bring me a new computer and a Hooters babe to show to use it. Rick--Your winter pictures kind of make us long for those mild Ohio winters don't it. Leon S. www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.kitlog.com<http://www.kitlog.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: pirep on goggles
Date: Dec 22, 2006
Michael Silvius wrote- >These seem to be the best deal going for clasic flying goggles. >cant imagine anyone cheaper and at 15$ you can't beat the price. >available in black or chrome frame. > >http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSS&Product_Code=023612&Category_Code=23 I was looking for an inexpensive pair of flying goggles and purchased a pair of these, with the black frames. Have not flown with them yet. They appear to be foreign made (and I'm not talking Great Britain) judging from the broken English on the box, worth what I paid for them ($15). The lenses are acrylic or polycarbonate, not glass (which is fine). Trim pieces are stainless steel but with sharp edges (stamped). The box says the frames are padded leather; if so, it's quite thin leather but they do fit comfortably. Look like they might last one or two flying seasons, tops. I wear contact lenses and absolutely must have something to keep my lenses from drying out in the propblast. I have ski goggles as well, but wanted something that looked more like flying goggles. Not a bad deal for the money but certainly not authentic leather with glass lenses. If that's what you're expecting look elsewhere. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN Shopping Sales & Deals http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata 0639 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Strut vibration
Chuck Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. Rick On 12/21/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, > lshutks(at)webtv.net writes: > > Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back > issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten > the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave > a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its > movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and > failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as > Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs > flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a > sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. > rather than east to Ks. > > Leon, > I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much > of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more > prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't > like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it > would wallow out the bolt holes. > That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is > still closed down from yesterday !! > > Merry Christmas to all !! > > Chuck G. > NX770CG > > * > > > www.aeroelectric.com > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Strut vibration
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I think he ment that if things were left loose that the holes would enlarge from wear over time. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: December 22, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration Chuck Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. Rick On 12/21/06, Rcaprd(at)aol.com < Rcaprd(at)aol.com > wrote: In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, lshutks(at)webtv.net writes: Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. rather than east to Ks. Leon, I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it would wallow out the bolt holes. That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is still closed down from yesterday !! Merry Christmas to all !! Chuck G. NX770CG www.aeroelectric.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine selection questions
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Merry Christmas All! I'm starting to look for a mid-time 0-200, or possibly C-85 or 90. Should I be looking for the F (flanged hub) designation? Are there other things I should be considering? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Strut vibration
The strut forks I purchased from ACS came with drilled short bolts and castle nuts. You could say that is a loose attachment since it can swing forward and backward. Rick On 12/22/06, harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > > I think he ment that if things were left loose that the holes would > enlarge from wear over time. > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland > *Sent:* December 22, 2006 10:26 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Strut vibration > > > Chuck > > Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they > can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular > nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. > > Rick > > On 12/21/06, *Rcaprd(at)aol.com* < Rcaprd(at)aol.com> wrote: > > In a message dated 12/21/2006 8:35:25 AM Central Standard Time, > lshutks(at)webtv.net writes: > > Speaking of strut vibration, I remember reading in one of the old back > issues of the BPNews where a builder said BHP told him not to tighten > the bottom lift strut attach bolt tight against the fus. fitting. Leave > a little slack. this is to keep a vibrating strut from transferring its > movement to the fus. fitting causing possible Work hardening and > failure. No problem at the top fitting as the "lolly pop" fitting (as > Chuck calls it) can move with the strut. This all if you use BHPs > flattened end steel struts as shown on he plans. Leon S. Breathing a > sigh of relief that the blizzard in Colorado is going north east to Neb. > rather than east to Ks. > > Leon, > > I've never heard that one from B.H.P. !! I don't think it would be much > of a problem if lift struts are installed. Work hardening is much more > prone to Aluminum...another reason to stick with the steel struts. I don't > like the idea of leaving those lower strut bolts a little loose...I think it > would wallow out the bolt holes. > > That is some kinda storm, huh ??!! I just heard that Interstate 70 is > still closed down from yesterday !! > > > Merry Christmas to all !! > > > Chuck G. > > NX770CG > > * * > > * * > > * * > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > * * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > * > > > -- > > Rick Holland > > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"* > > * * > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.kitlog.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > * * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Wing Rib Lacing
Hello everyone: Merry Christmas !! Anchorage is usually a beautiful ,snowy place, this time of year. I am using the Poly-Fiber system for covering my Piet. I read the Poly-Fiber book, watched the video and worked through the practice fabric frame. I have laced three ribs, so far , and am not having any technical problems. Any tips or helpful suggestions to speeeeeeed up this process would be appreciated. Thanks, ahead of time , for any good ideas. Mike Luther ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: Engine selection questions
There always seems to be a potential for lively discussion when engine selection is mentioned. I have never heard anything bad said about taper hub as opposed to flanged hub. The 90 seems to have a good reputation for durability, but I did not see many for sale when I was looking. C-85 was recommended to me because it was more available and less expensive, when I was looking, 5 years ago. O-200 engines have new replacement part$ available and the Marvel carb has a good reputation. Mike Luther ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> Date: Friday, December 22, 2006 6:45 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine selection questions > Merry Christmas All! > > I'm starting to look for a mid-time 0-200, or possibly C-85 or 90. > Should I be looking for the F (flanged hub) designation? Are there > other things I should be considering? > > Thanks, > > Jack > > www.textors.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Lacing
From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com>
Date: Dec 22, 2006
Mike Stand the wing on its leading edge, about 2 feet up from the ground Make 12 needles, using welding rod (flat one end with hole, sharp the other) And do all the ribs at the same time, saves time walking around the wing for every stich. Even faster get a stich buddy, saves the walking altogether Have a merry christmas Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sky Gypsy Makes Aviation Week & Space Technology
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
2006 Art & Photography Issue (just came out) pages 84 AND 85. Honorable Mention: Paul Glenshaw Silver Spring, MD "Pietenpol flies over Xenia, Ohio" (pronounced Zeen-yah) Photo shows Frank Pavliga's Pietnepol in an air-to-air photo from a quartering-trail view off his starboard side roughly 500 feet agl over farmland in very hazy, sunless, daytime conditions. Very nice photo. I would have never seen this if we were not subscribed to AvWeek here at work and if you go to their web site you have to subscribe to look at the photos. Perhaps your local library carries Aviation Week if you'd like to see this one. December 18/25, 2006 Issue Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
Date: Dec 23, 2006
Hi Guys, I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes for the Piet/Corvair combination. Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- 1 Size of prop 2 Static RPM 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm 4 Full throttle speed and rpm 5 Empty weight of aircraft I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive pitch angles and Wooden Props? Thanks Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 6:45 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: KMHeide <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
Peter, I would go a few steps further...What about Warp Drive (ground adjustable) three blade and/or two blade props for Pietenpol use? Any information on that manufacturer's prop and Pietenpols? Peter W Johnson wrote: Hi Guys, I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes for the Piet/Corvair combination. Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- 1 Size of prop 2 Static RPM 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm 4 Full throttle speed and rpm 5 Empty weight of aircraft I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive pitch angles and Wooden Props? Thanks Peter Wonthaggi, Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -- 6:45 PM __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
William Wynne is the Corvair guru, and he had a Piet/Corvair. You can search his open email list for info on this. http://www.flycorvair.com/ On 12/22/06, Peter W Johnson wrote: > > vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> > > Hi Guys, > > I am trying to find out information on rpm levels and wooden prop sizes > for > the Piet/Corvair combination. > > Could people flying with this combination let me know the following:- > > 1 Size of prop > 2 Static RPM > 3 Typical cruise speed and rpm > 4 Full throttle speed and rpm > 5 Empty weight of aircraft > > I have some information from Hans and also from Al Schuberts book, "How I > make Wood Propellers". I would appreciate some more. > > Also, does anybody know if there is any correlation between Warp Drive > pitch > angles and Wooden Props? > > Thanks > > Peter > Wonthaggi, Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -- > 6:45 PM > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: Mike Luther <luther(at)gci.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Lacing
Hans: Thanks for the information, especially the part about the welding rod needles. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Vander Voort <hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com> Date: Friday, December 22, 2006 9:01 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Lacing > > Mike > > Stand the wing on its leading edge, about 2 feet up from the ground > > Make 12 needles, using welding rod (flat one end with hole, sharp the > other) > > And do all the ribs at the same time, saves time walking around > the wing > for every stich. > > Even faster get a stich buddy, saves the walking altogether > > Have a merry christmas > > Hans > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 22, 2006
Subject: Re: Strut vibration
In a message dated 12/22/2006 9:28:31 AM Central Standard Time, at7000ft(at)gmail.com writes: Chuck Arn't they just talking about securing the ends with castle nuts so they can move forward and backward rather than tighening them down with regular nuts? I don't think they meant to have you enlarge the holes. Rick The only place castle nuts are required is where there is a movable joint. I can only be sure, in time, the holes will elongate if the bolts are loose enough to allow movement, unless there is alowance for routine lubircation. I used locking nuts, and cinched them up with about 30 lbs of torque. The note in the plans has to do with 1020 steel, not 4130. Not sure if that makes a difference, but 4130 certainly has more tensile strength. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 22, 2006
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Lacing
In a message dated 12/22/2006 11:58:58 AM Central Standard Time, hans.vander.voort(at)alfalaval.com writes: Mike Stand the wing on its leading edge, about 2 feet up from the ground Make 12 needles, using welding rod (flat one end with hole, sharp the other) And do all the ribs at the same time, saves time walking around the wing for every stich. Even faster get a stich buddy, saves the walking altogether Have a merry christmas Hans That's exactly how I did it, but I only had 5 needles. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 22, 2006
Subject: Re: Lift strut vibration
In a message dated 12/22/2006 9:07:15 AM Central Standard Time, flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com writes: There is a notation on the plans. Drawing #6, at the bottom of the upper left section, right a the lower end of the lift strut diagram from BHP. It says " Lower end of strut is given a little play to avoid chances of crystalizing fuselage fitting". Wishing everyone a great holiday season.....Ed G. I'm keeping my lower struts tight. There's a thing called 'Modules of Elasticity', which means the metal will return to it's original dimension, as long as it does not exceed it's Modules of Elasticity. From what I understand, Steel will NOT fatigue, as long as it is not bent beyond it's Modules of Elasticity. Aluminum is a whole different animal. It will eventually fatigue, even if it does not exceed it's modules of elasticity. Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 22, 2006
From: Javier Cruz <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
Hi again Piets, sorry i forget something that can be usefull On the first runnings, i have problems whit the mixture control (maybe the altitud here) i was using a lever for adjust it (like yours Peter), i change it for a Vernier mixturecontrol and the engine perform much better, the mixture needs a fine adjust and i think that whit the lever it's very hard to get a good mixture.. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Pietenpol's and Corvairs.
Date: Dec 23, 2006
Javier My mixture control on the NAS31A has been blanked off. Bit the same as hard wiring the lever to the rich position. Cheers Peter. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Javier Cruz Sent: Saturday, 23 December 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol's and Corvairs. Hi again Piets, sorry i forget something that can be usefull On the first runnings, i have problems whit the mixture control (maybe the altitud here) i was using a lever for adjust it (like yours Peter), i change it for a Vernier mixturecontrol and the engine perform much better, the mixture needs a fine adjust and i think that whit the lever it's very hard to get a good mixture.. -- 3:22 PM

December 11, 2006 - December 23, 2006

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-fn