I would go with the experimental for sure.
All the DAR's and FAA guys are familiar with that.
Up here guys are having a hard time finding someone to inspect and licence a
Light Sport aircraft.
Inspection should be the same. and the Experimental will probably be better
in the resale.
Doesn't matter what type of flying license you personally have , if any.
Even a person that never flew can build and licence a homebuilt.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration
>
>
> I am ready to send off for an N-number so as to not be too far behind the
> power curve whn the time comes.And I called the EAA to request a
> Certification kit like my DAR suggested,they asked me whether I wanted to
> go Light Sport or conventional Ex/AB.I didn't know they would have a
> different packet-does anybody know of a good reason to not go LSA ? I
> cannot see it exceeding any of the limitations unless it was cruise speed.
> :
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99327#99327
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Gentlemen,
I do like the idea of this step with retraction. Maybe a slight rotation and
it can lock in place. Then rotate it back the other way and it retracts back inside....
Ken
"Phillips, Jack" wrote:
Pretty cool, Michael. One observation: How do you retract it once you
are sitting in the cockpit? Can you reach it while sitting in the seat?
If so, then I guess it also will not be a problem to extend it before
trying to get out of the cockpit.
I've got a fixed step on mine, and really like it. I can't easily see
it when leaving the cockpit but just swing my leg down and feel for it
with my foot.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL
SILVIUS
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuse step
I'd think a telescoping tube with an internal bunge to keep it retracted
would be quite easy to execute.
Pull on it and set your foot on it, as soon as you step off it retracts.
I believe these are photos I pilfered of DJ's page for my neat ideas
folder.
if made a bit loger it might stand up better to abuse.
michael silvius, scarborough, maine
_________________________________________________
---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: fuse step
Date:
Mar 07, 2007
I agree with Jack on the fixed step. Forget the retractable apparatus,
build it fixed to keep it simple.
Drag from an exposed step is a non-issue. NX18235 has a fixed step and
it cruises at 81 mph.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuse step
Gentlemen,
I do like the idea of this step with retraction. Maybe a slight
rotation and it can lock in place. Then rotate it back the other way and
it retracts back inside....
Ken
"Phillips, Jack" wrote:
Pretty cool, Michael. One observation: How do you retract it once
you
are sitting in the cockpit? Can you reach it while sitting in the
seat?
If so, then I guess it also will not be a problem to extend it
before
trying to get out of the cockpit.
I've got a fixed step on mine, and really like it. I can't easily
see
it when leaving the cockpit but just swing my leg down and feel for
it
with my foot.
Jack
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: registration
Date:
Mar 07, 2007
Walt, Your dead on with your advice. I think he would really regret going
the LSA route.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: registration
>
> I would go with the experimental for sure.
> All the DAR's and FAA guys are familiar with that.
> Up here guys are having a hard time finding someone to inspect and licence
> a Light Sport aircraft.
> Inspection should be the same. and the Experimental will probably be
> better in the resale.
> Doesn't matter what type of flying license you personally have , if any.
> Even a person that never flew can build and licence a homebuilt.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
> Ben Franklin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:56 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: registration
>
> >>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 07, 2007
From:
Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Propeller duplicator Scimitar Prop.. Off List
Hello Chuck,
I will love to learn carve a scimitar prop also, some day, I will appreciate any
lead for info on carving one... Dificult to find this type of info...
Please post as you learn... I carved almost all my props, only bought one for
one ultralight years ago (IVO) not a great prop...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/12/2007 8:38:03 PM Central Standard
Time, EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:
I know there are some guys on here, Chuck G. and Greg C. and there may be more,
that have carved their own props. Where did you find your prop duplicator plans?
Don,
If you can build a Pietenpol, you can Certainly build a prop.
I didn't use a duplicator. I built two props for the Model A, and one for
the Continental A65. I've re-worked the prop for the A65 two times, to get a
little more RPM, and now have about 300 hours on that one. I used the book by
Eric Clutton, 'Propeller Making for the Amateur' - available through the EAA.
I still plan on building a Scimitar Prop for the Piet, using most of his methods.
I corresponded with him quite a bit (via e-mail) on the Scimitar, and
I find it a very interesting design.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: registration
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 07, 2007
OK I see what you mean as far as a sale,but with either one-the builder can do
his own annual if he has the certificate plus from what I have read-with light
Sport the new owner can take a class-( I think 10 hours) that the EAA I beleive
puts on and then can do the inspections on his own LSA.I know there have been
several held.I thought about attending one,but because my Challenger is registered
EX/AB it would'nt work for me.Anyway that is my understanding.I have a
call in to the EAA concerning that part to be sure.the guy I needed to talk to
was out today but I'll try again tomorrow.My concerns were more to what restrictions
would limit use with a LSA.I will for sure post what I find out from
them.I expect truthfully either way it might be difficult to get a lot of A&P's
to put their name on an annual if they didn't know the builder well due to liability.I
fly with a private single engine ticket but will probably seldom if
ever go beyond what the Sport pilot regs allow and for sure could'nt with a Piet
anyway.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99373#99373
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 07, 2007
Subject:
Building a Scimitar Prop
In a message dated 3/7/2007 7:31:56 PM Central Standard Time,
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
Hello Chuck,
I will love to learn carve a scimitar prop also, some day, I will appreciate
any lead for info on carving one... Dificult to find this type of info...
Please post as you learn... I carved almost all my props, only bought one
for one ultralight years ago (IVO) not a great prop...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Hey Gary,
The very best information I have on the Scimitar Prop, is a few short
paragraph's, and a few sketches, from the book by Eric Clutton, called 'PROPELLER
MAKING for the AMATEUR'. I've got the clamps, and the wood for the jig required,
and I'm looking around for prices of a stack of 24 birch planks, measuring
1/4" thick, 3 1/2" wide, quarter sawn, and 7 feet long.
It's basically the method to get the extreme curves in the wood, to make
the Scimitar. I'm thinking of steaming the 1/4" planks and pre-bending them,
before gluing the stack together. Then place maybe five planks at a time in
the jig, clamp it down with Resorcinol Glue, then clamping down the next series
of planks with glue, and so on with each stack till it's about 6" across,
which is the width of the hub of the prop. I think this stuff works better under
clamping pressure. I use T88 exclusively, but I don't think it would work in
this application, because you're not supposed to clamp it very tightly, but
then if it had a layer of Scrim Cloth, it would maintain the bond line to at
least .002". But then this bond line would probably be much more prevalent than
if it was Resorcinal Glue.
After it's all glued up, I'll use the plan view of the prop that I have
drawn on the top of the flat, straight, steel top table that I use to build
props on. I make a templet for each 6" station of the blade of the prop. Plane
the for and aft faces of the prop hub so they are parallel with each other,
and use a carpenters square to check the plan form of the wood, against the
sketch on the table. Then it's just a matter of whittling away everything that
doesn't look like a Scimitar Propeller !! For the Continental A65, I'm going to
start out with a 74 X 44...maybe even 46 This is certainly a time consuming
and learning process, so I'll have to see what works. I've already started a
video of the beginnings of the planning process.
In the correspondence I had with Eric, it wasn't in his book, but he
mentioned it might be better to use a kind of face plate (about 1/4" thick) on
the
forward and aft hub area of the prop, so the clamping pressure wouldn't be
against the edges of the 1/4" planks.
If it is successful, I'm going to build a Scimitar for the 150 hp
Tailwind. Steve Wittman was obviously very much into the Scimitar design, as you
can
see on the back wall of his hanger at Pioneer Field in Oshkosh.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
weber on a model A
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Dan,
The weber that Ford guys use on their A's is the weber. When I bought
mine weber was having production shortages and I got the last one for a
while, but I think they're fine now. You can find them through Snyders,
they also sell a nice intake manifold that I think I think is made by
the guy who I bought mine from. You've got to modify the intake
manifold to get the carb low enough to proper fuel head, which isn't
hard if you can weld aluminum, or you can do the cutting, find some
thick walled aluminum tubing and then bring it to someone who can weld
aluminum.
I am trying a weber primarily because it will produce more power than a
stock A carb. It is a better design, having two stages, a primary and a
secondary which will deliver a more correct mix at various throttle
settings. I also like that I have limitless jet options so I can fine
tune at idle, cruise and climb AND I can get it just a bit lean on the
ground so my mixture will not be so rich higher up.
Lowell Frank has extensive experience with this carb and loved it. It
is prone to icing just like the Ford, so that challenge doesn't go away.
It comes with a choke which Lowell got rid of, but I am thinking of
keeping because in my testing I really like how easy it makes it to
start when it's cold.
Hope that helps, feel free to contact me if you need more info.
By the way, I have a beautiful stock carb rebuilt by Ken Perkins that is
brand new if you want one. I'll sell it for what I paid Ken four years
ago.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Main Landing Gear Length
From:
"Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Hi All,
I am working on installing the wood style landing gear. According to my calculations
to get a deck angle of 13 degrees I need the bottom of the axel to be 22
inches below the fuselage, measured down from the front fitting perpendicular
to the upper longeron with the upper longeron level. This will require lengthening
the wood landing gear 6.75 inches. If I compare my axel location to the
split axel gear, it is a 5-inch extension. The need for this appears to be
mostly due to the height of my tail wheel being 12 inches, or 4.5-inches taller
then the stock tail skid.
Did anyone else lengthen the gear this much? Anyone see a problem in adding this
much length? I should also add I widened the gear 6-inches to keep the same
geometry in gear width.
A search of the archives on this leads to some specific questions:
Don Emch, you said you have a deck angle of 15 degrees and a tail wheel. Did you
lengthen your gear and if so how much. Or is your high deck angle due only
to the tall wheels.
Jack Phillips, you mentioned having to add a step to get in with a 12 to 13 degree
deck angle, did you lengthen your gear and if so how much?
Mike Cuy, searching the archives you say your plane sits at 13 degrees and later
say 11 to 12 degrees is where you set your deck angle. Which one is it and
did you have to lengthen your gear legs to get it?
Rick Holland, you mentioned that your lower longeron is 32-inches from the ground
with a deck angle of 12 degrees. Where did you measure this from and did you
lengthen your gear?
Thanks
Chris Tracy
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99477#99477
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
registration information
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
I talked with a fellow this morning by the name of Tim at the EAA headquarters
and got some clarification on the registration.he said the Light sport registration
thing right now is basically set up to allow the folks with the fat ultralights
to get legal and that option goes away in December.but I would need to
just register the Piet EX/AB and it can be flown under the Sport pilot criteria
as long as it meets it.Hope this is clear-thanks for the advice.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99484#99484
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
landing gear height
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Chris,
I would have to go measure my deck angle with an angle finder to give
you the right number but 12 degrees sticks in my mind.
Widening the wood gear I think is a good idea and I widened mine about
4" as I recall. I actually believe that my gear legs are shorter
than plans though because I wanted to be able to lift my leg high enough
to get in without having to install a step. Your tail sounds
like it sits quite high which makes sense that you need to add so much
to length to maintain the deck angle. If you are non-electric
then consider that doing that will raise your prop for hand propping
comfort too.
Here are some measurements I took of straight axle planes at Brodhead.
With some trig you could calculate a rough deck angle.
I can't give you the wire wheel diameters but I will post the following
measurements I took at Brodhead on straight axle gear Pietenpols
with Continental 65 engines.
F= from bottom of longeron right next to front gear leg fitting to
ground
R= from bottom of longeron right next to rear gear leg fitting to
ground
C= from center of rear valve cover to ground
Brian Kenny's Piet from Canada (plans tail w/ small wheel as I recall)
F= 26.5"
R= 20"
C= 49.5"
Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy (plans tail w/ skid)
F= 30.5"
R= 21 3/4"
C= 53.5"
My Piet (spring steel tail w/ 4" diameter wheel
F= 28"
R= 20.5"
C= 51"
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Hi Chris,
I have wrestled with this issue of deck angle also. I built my straight
axle gear as close to the F&G Manual as humanly possible. You saw my pics I
sent you of my skid/tailwheel setup. With the skid, I have a deck angle of 12
degrees, and with the wheel about 11 or 11-1/2 degrees. I have large diameter
21" wheels and still could not get this 13 degree deck angle. I am
wondering whether the people that are claiming this have lengthened their gear,
or
more likely made an error in measuring. Why do you feel that you need this 13
degree deck angle? 6.75 inch extension seems like an awful lot. BHP
obviously did not do this. If you notice the way I made my tailwheel, I was very
cognizant of adding any height to the aft end of the fuselage, and tried to
design it with that in mind, while still achieving the removable/interchangeable
feature. Please explain your concerns. See attachments.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
registration information
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Raymond-- I flew my piet under the Sport Pilot regs this past summer for
a month
while I was out of medical. I see no reason why you can't register your
Piet as
a regular airplane with a standard N number and if you want to fly it
under the sport
rule it already meets the criteria.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
From:
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Hi Chris,
I lengthened my struts, but not nearly that much. I don't remember the
dimensions, but my wheels are 21" and the top of my tire is just about
even with the bottom of the fuselage. I'm attaching a picture (sorry
for the long download) of the plane in the hangar getting ready to be
weighed. It is sitting with the longerons level, so you can get an idea
of the axle placement.
Mine has a 13 degree deck angle and it stalls in the 3 point position,
which is what I wanted. I learned to fly in a J-3 Cub and the Cub is
about the same deck angle, and stalls just as you get it to the 3-point
position. That is why a Cub is so difficult to land perfectly every
time - if you don't do it exactly right, it will either stall and drop
in, or bounce. Makes it a good trainer, because it is hard to do it
right, but hard to get hurt in.
Anyway, that is the kind of characteristic I prefer in a taildragger.
My old Cessna 140 and the RV-4 I currently own have a much shallower
deck angle and if you flare too quickly you can easily land tailwheel
first.
Having flown mine for a couple of years now, and having flown other
Pietenpols with a lower deck angle, I can say it doesn't matter much. A
Piet stalls so quickly when you flare it (unless you start your flare at
60 mph or above) that it just doesn't make much difference. What a
higher deck angle does do is make a step pretty much required equipment.
I do like the higher propeller placement for propping. I've propped
mine right after propping Mike Cuy's and I just find the higher nose
easier to prop, but then I'm 6'2" tall. Your mileage may vary.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catdesigns
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length
Hi All,
I am working on installing the wood style landing gear. According to my
calculations to get a deck angle of 13 degrees I need the bottom of the
axel to be 22 inches below the fuselage, measured down from the front
fitting perpendicular to the upper longeron with the upper longeron
level. This will require lengthening the wood landing gear 6.75 inches.
If I compare my axel location to the split axel gear, it is a 5-inch
extension. The need for this appears to be mostly due to the height of
my tail wheel being 12 inches, or 4.5-inches taller then the stock tail
skid.
Did anyone else lengthen the gear this much? Anyone see a problem in
adding this much length? I should also add I widened the gear 6-inches
to keep the same geometry in gear width.
A search of the archives on this leads to some specific questions:
Don Emch, you said you have a deck angle of 15 degrees and a tail wheel.
Did you lengthen your gear and if so how much. Or is your high deck
angle due only to the tall wheels.
Jack Phillips, you mentioned having to add a step to get in with a 12 to
13 degree deck angle, did you lengthen your gear and if so how much?
Mike Cuy, searching the archives you say your plane sits at 13 degrees
and later say 11 to 12 degrees is where you set your deck angle. Which
one is it and did you have to lengthen your gear legs to get it?
Rick Holland, you mentioned that your lower longeron is 32-inches from
the ground with a deck angle of 12 degrees. Where did you measure this
from and did you lengthen your gear?
Thanks
Chris Tracy
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99477#99477
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Hi Dan,
Cool choice of colors. I like purple. I thought I'd warn you about the
tail skid A-frame. As per plans it will bend and twist. I rebuilt mine
twice. I used .049 walled 3/4 " tube and also put a frame member across
the V, turning it into a capital 'A' shape. This has served well the
last 250 hours.
Good looking airplane!
Steve E
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length
Hi Chris,
I have wrestled with this issue of deck angle also. I built my straight
axle gear as close to the F&G Manual as humanly possible. You saw my
pics I sent you of my skid/tailwheel setup. With the skid, I have a
deck angle of 12 degrees, and with the wheel about 11 or 11-1/2 degrees.
I have large diameter 21" wheels and still could not get this 13 degree
deck angle. I am wondering whether the people that are claiming this
have lengthened their gear, or more likely made an error in measuring.
Why do you feel that you need this 13 degree deck angle? 6.75 inch
extension seems like an awful lot. BHP obviously did not do this. If
you notice the way I made my tailwheel, I was very cognizant of adding
any height to the aft end of the fuselage, and tried to design it with
that in mind, while still achieving the removable/interchangeable
feature. Please explain your concerns. See attachments.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about
w4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com"
l
?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Steve,
I used the.049 tubing. You still think it needs the extra member?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Dan,
I agree with Steve, I replaced my plans tail skid/wheel with a spring
steel
type. No more bend or twist.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Sent: Friday, 9 March 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length
Hi Dan,
Cool choice of colors. I like purple. I thought I=92d warn you about
the
tail skid A-frame. As per plans it will bend and twist. I rebuilt mine
twice. I used .049 walled 3/4 =93 tube and also put a frame member
across the
V, turning it into a capital =91A=92 shape. This has served well the
last 250
hours.
Good looking airplane!
Steve E
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length
Hi Chris,
I have wrestled with this issue of deck angle also. I built my straight
axle gear as close to the F&G Manual as humanly possible. You saw my
pics I
sent you of my skid/tailwheel setup. With the skid, I have a deck angle
of
12 degrees, and with the wheel about 11 or 11-1/2 degrees. I have large
diameter 21" wheels and still could not get this 13 degree deck angle.
I am
wondering whether the people that are claiming this have lengthened
their
gear, or more likely made an error in measuring. Why do you feel that
you
need this 13 degree deck angle? 6.75 inch extension seems like an awful
lot. BHP obviously did not do this. If you notice the way I made my
tailwheel, I was very cognizant of adding any height to the aft end of
the
fuselage, and tried to design it with that in mind, while still
achieving
the removable/interchangeable feature. Please explain your concerns.
See
attachments.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
_____
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37/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
7/03/2007
9:24 AM
--
7/03/2007
9:24 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
From:
"Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Thanks Guys.
This is the information I was looking for. I felt adding 5 to 6 inches was a bit
extreme. I chose 13 degrees is because this seems to be around the common
angle people use. Based on the numbers Mike reported, Mike is at 13.5, Brian is
just under 12 , Frank P. is just about 15 degrees. Knowing Mike to be closer
to 12 degrees, I assume these estimates to be a little steeper then reality.
We know Jack is at 13 and Greg and Dale are at 12.5. Dom Emch has the steepest
at 15. He also reported Frank P. to be about the same as his. Chuck G. at
11 degrees said it was a bit harder to get a good full stall landing. This
is why I went with 13 degrees. Well that and I like the look of a steep deck angle.
I would have gone with 14 but my high tail made that impractical.
My concern about the height is how tall will the propeller be. Anyone have any
idea how far away the propeller is from the firewall on an A-56 Piet? Im tall
and I dont mind adding a step. But most of all I dont want it to look stupid.
Yes, I know looks shouldnt be more important then functionality but come on
now we all want to look good. I also dont want to make it tippy by having tall
gear legs.
I have been playing around with my fuselage drawing and I can remove 3 inches (for
a 2 inch extension) and still get 12.5 degrees using my tail wheel (it turns
out Im a bit over the 13 degrees stated). By the time the wheels squish a
little this should be 12 degrees.
Its obvious that somehow you guys have shorter tail wheels then I do. Im seriously
contemplating switching over to a 4-inch Homebuilders Special but I dont
know the height or weight of this setup. Mike, do you have any ideas on the height
of your lower longeron at the back of the fuselage? Im sure it will weigh
more then my 6 pound tail wheel I have now.
This is all very funny in a way. Before I ever started cutting wood for the gear
I had this all worked out. I knew exactly what I was going to do. But, AFTER
I got all 4 gear legs cut it just didnt look right. Oh well, at least I am
shortening and not having to stretch them and in my experience wood is hard
to stretch.
Thanks again
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99532#99532
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Aircraft Spruce" <info(at)aircraftspruce.com>
Subject:
A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group
about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer
Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise
that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to
ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply,
they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email.
Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder,
which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were
backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our
apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our
expense.
We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol
builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order,
the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help.
Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice(at)aircraftspruce.com.
Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service Dept.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
From:
Matt Reeves <mattreeves(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
I think it's awesome that builders' lists and idea forums get this type of customer
service and follow up.
Aircraft Spruce is truly on the "cutting edge" of listening to their customers
and actually doing something about it.
In this world of instant messaging, blogs, and communications, it's nice to have
a company that really does care and realizes the importance of customer needs.
Matt
Rochester, NY
Aircraft Spruce wrote:
A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group
about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer Service
department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise that the shipping
on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to ask if we could cut
it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply, they cancelled the backorder
and notified the customer by email. Unfortunately, they did not identify the
item that was on backorder, which led our customer to believe that other items
(hardware) were backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended
our apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our
expense.
We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol builders and
if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order, the Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service department is ready to help. Contact us at 877-477-7823 or
customerservice(at)aircraftspruce.com.
Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service Dept.
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
From:
"walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
>From time to time people bash Aircraft Spruce. I just wanted to jump in
and say that I built my Pietenpol over a 4 year period in late 1990's.
I bought most/all of my "stuff" from AS&S. Some I got from Dillsburg.
The only problem I ever had from Aircraft was an order of control cable.
I ordered, say, 75 ft, for my wing. When it came, it was many pieces of
cable.
When I called, I said I didn't want floor sweepings. They were very
Sorry for the mistake and got right on it.
I got my correct cable in a few days. At no charge. They made good on
the order.
If I were to start another project tomorrow, I would certainly go back
to AS&S.
AS&S is good!!
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Aircraft Spruce
To: Pietenpol-List(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group
about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer
Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise
that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to
ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply,
they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email.
Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder,
which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were
backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our
apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our
expense.
We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol
builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order,
the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help.
Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice(at)aircraftspruce.com.
Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service Dept.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject:
Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Since I have no wish to turn this into a flame war and will not do so I
will respond to this once and not another word will follow. This was not
the first straw with them but the last, hence the post "Does it again".
And I am sure you will find that my comment was not the first about
problems at their company.
My first order with them was for several thousand dollars and included
the spruce kit, plywood and a number of building materials. The
description of a spruce kit as written and given by a sales person it
contained "All of the spruce necessary to build the plane." At the same
time I placed an order for the seperate cap strips. The shipment was a
comedy of errors where an completly different pricing and shipping
method was given to me weeks after the initial order was placed. I was
prepared to be patient but when you get a different story each time you
are communicated with, which prompts more questions which lead to more
diverse answers it gets irritating. When the shipment arrived I did an
inventory and found that much more spruce was needed, and that several
pieces were miscut. Further they insisted on charging me shipping for
the cap strip kit they forgot until allot of discussion with a manager
fixed the issue. I commented on this and got a few replies and I quote;
"Their initials aren't A.S.S. for nothing." I gave up on even trying to
deal with the issue of the complete spruce kit not being so complete.
A few months go by and I needed a few things (hinge bolts etc.) that I
already had the part numbers for and decide to give it another try. I
placed and order and got part of it. Their rep is correct that they did
not reach me by phone but they did reach me by email and by at least
three people who all had a different idea of what the situation was, one
wanted to reship everything. The final straw was when, as you can read
in my cut and paste of their email, they cancelled the backorder due to
it's low value not due to the cost of shipping, size of the cut etc.
Further they just emailed me asking if they could ship a 2ft piece and a
4ft piece that they had, not if they could cut the 6ft piece for
shipping. The rep's post on the forum implied that they had a 6ft piece
to cut and not that they had found some end pieces which won't work as I
need two 3ft pieces.
When a company does well, like Ken's awesome cowls that I bought one of,
Mr Pietenpol's family with their great plans service I have no problem
saying great job. When a company seems to screw up as a practice, I am
going to say something. Of course it is the rep's job to jump in and
give their side, and try to make it sound so reasonable and simple. So
take it all with a grain of salt but if you just do a simple comparison
of the stated reason for the backorder cancellation in the email and in
the rep's post you'll see that the story changed. Too much fuss over a
few feet of aluminum, but again it was more than that one thing.
We now leave days of our Piets and return you to your regularly
scheduled building.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Reeves
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
I think it's awesome that builders' lists and idea forums get this
type of customer service and follow up.
Aircraft Spruce is truly on the "cutting edge" of listening to their
customers and actually doing something about it.
In this world of instant messaging, blogs, and communications, it's
nice to have a company that really does care and realizes the importance
of customer needs.
Matt
Rochester, NY
Aircraft Spruce wrote:
A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group
about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer
Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise
that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to
ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply,
they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email.
Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder,
which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were
backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our
apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our
expense.
We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol
builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order,
the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help.
Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice(at)aircraftspruce.com.
Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Main Landing Gear Length- baby bear's view
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Chris wrote-
>Mike is at 13.5, Brian is just under 12 , Frank P. is just about 15
>degrees.
>Knowing Mike to be closer to 12 degrees, I assume these estimates to be
>a little steeper then reality. We know Jack is at 13 and Greg and Dale are
>at 12.5. Dom Emch has the steepest at 15. He also reported Frank P.
>to be about the same as his. Chuck G. at 11 degrees said it was a bit
>harder
>to get a good full stall landing.
Mama Bear's bed is too soft, Papa Bear's bed is too hard, but Baby Bear's
bed (NX41CC, at 12.2 degrees deck angle sitting in the hangar, top longeron)
is just right! This airplane lands just about perfectly and I haven't hit
the tailwheel first yet. Sitting in the hangar in normal trim, the
dimension from the bottom of the aftmost edge of the tailpost to the hangar
floor is 12-1/2".
What is funny is that I want to write in BIG, BOLD LETTERS the same thing I
heard so many times as long as I've been a homebuilder but never an
experimental airplane flyer... "JUST FINISH THE AIRPLANE AND FLY IT-! YOU
WILL NEVER STOP SMILING!". Gone are the endless discussions about this and
that, nuts and bolts, possible improvements. 41CC is pretty close to a real
authentic "Improved Plans Built" Air Camper and it flies beautifully. It
isn't perfect, isn't the right airplane for everyone, isn't an instrument
platform, will tax you on a long cross-country, but if you know you're a
Pietenpol person already, hurry up and finish your airplane because it will
scratch your itch and tickle your fancy just right. Finish it and fly it,
then you can improve and tweak it later! Winter time is for modifying and
reworking, but we're now getting into springtime and that means flying so
just put the glue on the wood or it will never start curing.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Axel location Clarifications
Date:
Mar 08, 2007
Hi, it's me again. Just a few last questions. After searching the archives
there are some things that need to be clarified about axel placement.
Greg Cardinal's and Dale Johnson's axel location sems to float around in the
archives. I've seen pictures of the plane and I know the axel is in a fixed
position.
In the archives:
Chris Bobbka said 21-inches aft of the firewall in his landing gear
analysis.
Then Chris and Dale reported it as a 7 inch sweep (which would put it at
19")
Greg later said 20-inches.
Then Greg says 19-inches
Question: Greg or Dale, what is the true location of your axel?
Dick Navratil: Is you axel location at 19" aft of the fire wall on a
short fuselage? How about the location on your new piet?
Lastly, anyone have the weight and balance spreadsheet Jon Dilatush
offered to send out concerning the Weight an Balance of his Mountain
Piet?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Bottom line Aircraft Spruce may be learning, "Don't piss off the
Pietenpolers, they stick together as a group and if you mess with them,
you could lose a lot of customers."
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Reeves
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A.S.S. Does it again. (Aircraft Spruce)
I think it's awesome that builders' lists and idea forums get this
type of customer service and follow up.
Aircraft Spruce is truly on the "cutting edge" of listening to their
customers and actually doing something about it.
In this world of instant messaging, blogs, and communications, it's
nice to have a company that really does care and realizes the importance
of customer needs.
Matt
Rochester, NY
Aircraft Spruce wrote:
A customer of ours recently posted a comment to the Pietenpol group
about a backorder that was cancelled by Aircraft Spruce. Our Customer
Service department attempted to contact the customer by phone to advise
that the shipping on the one piece of tubing would be expensive, and to
ask if we could cut it for shipping. When they id not receive a reply,
they cancelled the backorder and notified the customer by email.
Unfortunately, they did not identify the item that was on backorder,
which led our customer to believe that other items (hardware) were
backordered, when they actually were shipped. We have extended our
apology to our customer and have shipped the backordered tubing at our
expense.
We greatly appreciate all the business we receive from Pietenpol
builders and if there is ever a question or concern regarding an order,
the Aircraft Spruce Customer Service department is ready to help.
Contact us at 877-477-7823 or customerservice(at)aircraftspruce.com.
Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Scott S's experiece w/ Aircraft Spruce
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Scott's repeated difficulties with Aircraft Spruce mirror the issues
that caused me to quickly stop purchasing ANYTHING from them unless
nobody else carried it. I couldn't believe the utter incompetence and
lack of communication, good aircraft part knowledge, and difficulty in
getting incorrect or backordered issues resolved. I am encouraged to
hear that some, like Walt Evans, have had better experiences with ACS
and it appears that they are making attempts to improve customer
satisfaction. After getting burned a few times from ACS I found that
they
had an outstanding Customer Service Center located near St. Louis called
WICKS Aircraft !!!!!!!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Oscar
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Go flying, would you ?
xoxoxo
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
model A carb
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Oops,
Just read my posting of yesterday and apologize for my typo. The weber
carb used is a 3236.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Axel location Clarifications
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
We must have been using rulers from Harbor Freight.......
The axel location on NX18235 is 20" aft of the firewall. This was recorded
during the W&B excercise.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axel location Clarifications
>
>
> Hi, it's me again. Just a few last questions. After searching the archives
> there are some things that need to be clarified about axel placement.
>
> Greg Cardinal's and Dale Johnson's axel location sems to float around in
> the archives. I've seen pictures of the plane and I know the axel is in a
> fixed position.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
tailpost height above groun
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Chris,
I don't have any measurements from the bottom of my tailpost to
ground but perhaps this photo might help. The photo of Jack
Phillips plane might help too if we can ask Jack what the height
of his wheels (mains) are, then you can easily get a decent calculation
of the height of his tailpost (bottom longerons) above ground.
So we now have msl, agl, and atl: above tailwheel level.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Scott S's experiece w/ Aircraft Spruce
From:
"Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
While I appreciate Aircraft Spruce's attempt to heroicly salvage a customer relationship
before all of us potential customers on the forum, I have to say that
I have made 2 orders for wood. One for my capstrip and one for a single piece
of 1/2" x 1/2" capstrip (for the rib nose blocks). I scrutinize everything
and it was obvious to me that both orders contained substandard would (grain
density, grain inconsistencies, and imperfections/damage from the cutting process).
Armed with information from their own site and AC43.13 I was unable to
get them to replace anything. Once I sent them a link to pictures on my website
and THEN things started to move. Glad some people didn't go through the hell
I did but I echo Mike. To me great customer service doesn't mean they will
be happy to make good on their screw-ups. It means a commitment to less screw-ups
which I have seen no evidence of. I have yet to hear about anyone unhappy
with Wicks.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99606#99606
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: tailpost height above groun
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
What a beautiful airplane!
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 6:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailpost height above groun
Chris,
I don't have any measurements from the bottom of my tailpost to
ground but perhaps this photo might help. The photo of Jack
Phillips plane might help too if we can ask Jack what the height of
his wheels (mains) are, then you can easily get a decent calculation
of the height of his tailpost (bottom longerons) above ground. So
we now have msl, agl, and atl: above tailwheel level.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Weight and balance advise
Guys
Have just done a preliminary weighting of my uncovered airframe to figure
out where to place my corvair engine so I can make my motor mount. I want to
try to keep my cabanes vertical. Question is where do I want my CG point to
end up? Obviously between 15 and 20 inches aft of the LE. I am using a 17
gallon cowl fuel tank so I have calculated with me in the back seat (a
little over 200 lbs) and minimal fuel (say 2 gallons, 12 lbs), if the CG is
at the rear limit of 20" then with a full tank the CG will be in the center
of the range around 17 1/2". However doing it this way could lead to a
rearward CG problem with minimal fuel and heavier pilots (or a heavier me
some day). So I can have the minimal fuel CG an inch ahead of the rear limit
(19") and still be in the range with full fuel but that would limit lighter
weight pilots with full fuel (although I don't know any lightweight pilots,
what is the lightest Piet pilot you guys have ever seen?).
Am leaning toward designing for the minimum fuel CG an inch ahead of the
rear limit but would appreciate any advise.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Chris,
Maybe you can take comfort in the fact that your multiple attempts at
making your wood gear legs wasn't
done ALL in spruce like this dummy did. I thought I was good enough to
make the first set right from spruce----Hah,
yeah right ! Speaking of Wicks, they were really good to ship me out
one set of spruce blanks after the other each
time I screwed the gear legs up and finally on the third try I got the
charm. Those compound angle cuts are totally
unforgiving if you go the slightest bit too short---nothing fits.
The wood gear legs (for me anyway) were the single most difficult part
of the entire airplane but you can be assured
that your type of gear legs with the wire wheels will set your airplane
apart from every single other airplane and it is
the very first thing that people will admire and enjoy talking about,
looking at, and taking pictures of.
Mike C.
PS....the wood gear and wire wheels were well worth all the troubles,
headaches, gnashing of teeth, and money.
________________________________________________________________________________
Pieters.....
Dan and I have ordered wood from Aircraft Spruce and did find some shortages
in the order. They corrected the problem relatively quick.
A.S.S. needs to understand the customers point of view and trust those of us
who have problems rather than lump everyone into the category of "unbelievable"
or "not our problem" attitude. Somewhere in my medical practice....we were once
told that if you listen well the patient will diagnose themselves and tell
you enough information to fix the problem....I believe it was called "Customer
Service."
Just my opinion.....
Ken H
Fargo, ND
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject:
Tail wheel spring Part #
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Hello Everyone!
Is there an "off the shelf" part # for a tail wheel leaf spring? I have
seen quite a few people using them. Seems like a simpler and cleaner set up
than the original.
Thanks,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Tail wheel spring Part #
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I originally used a leaf spring type tailwheel spring until I damaged
the gear in a forced landing. The resulting groundloop (after the main
axle broke) wiped the tailwheel off the fuselage, damaging one of the
longerons in the process. I had originally used a set of springs of a
Piper PA-12 Super Cruiser and they worked fine.
When I rebuilt it I went to the original Pietenpol swing-arm type
design, modified for a tailwheel instead of a skid. I rebuilt it after
my first attempt because it simply couldn't handle steering loads
without twisting badly (per Steve Eldridge's comments a couple of days
ago). The new version (which is still on the plane) has heavy .049"
wall tubing with across member welded in place near the hinge points to
keep it from twisting.
Even with the heavy tubing, the Pietenpol design is lighter than a leaf
spring (those things are really heavy), and it works better for a wooden
structure. The leaf spring design works well for steel tubing
fuselages, but the leaf spring puts an awful lot of load in just one
place when heavy side loads are applied (e.g., in a groundloop). If you
are certain you will never groundloop (no taildragger ever does that,
right?), it is fine.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Abramson
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel spring Part #
Hello Everyone!
Is there an "off the shelf" part # for a tail wheel leaf spring? I have
seen quite a few people using them. Seems like a simpler and cleaner
set up
than the original.
Thanks,
Dave
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Subject:
Take heart- gear leg nightmare
Mike,
I totally agree, that making those wood gear legs was the most difficult and
frustrating thing about the whole airplane without a dout. I made mine four
times, and although they look really good, I still could have been maybe one
degree closer with my cuts. I also made the lower gear fittings three
times. Here is some advice for those that have yet to make those lower gear
fittings. Don't attempt to make them until you have the wood legs cut right.
Then use paper patterns and make the fittings fit the gear legs that you have.
Here is a pic that might help the fabrication process. Got some of these
ideas from Mike C.and Jack P. (thank you).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Note two plumb bobs that piont to centerline drawn on 2 x 8 on floor. Ash
cross pieces should "point" to the spot where the tail skid plate would be.
(This according to the old timers at Brodhead)
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Matt,
All of my posts are not showing up on the list for Pietenpolers. Do I need to
pay for this service?
Ken H
Fargo, ND
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Dues
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Yes, please send Matt Dralle a donation in November.
(even if you don't it should still work!)
Steve E
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide,
BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dues
Matt,
All of my posts are not showing up on the list for Pietenpolers. Do I
need to pay for this service?
Ken H
Fargo, ND
________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Aircraft Spruce 15 years' exp
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
No doubt others can top it, but I've been an Aircraft Spruce customer
for 15 years. Just this morning as I was going through my receipts for
my Stinson rebuild I flipped through probably 50-70 separate orders I've
made to them. They have made some errors, I've made some too. They
have made good on all the discrepancies. There was one time I
mis-ordered and didn't discover it for over a month after receiving the
'wrong' parts. I called them up and they helped me fix my error. It
was a $200 SIRS compass. They have priced matched a Comant antenna, and
credited my CC after the sale $18. I have noticed that wood (spruce)
sales have been a problem, but like others have said, they have
corrected the issue. I don't recall having to get ill-tempered, though
my patience has worn thin having to re-explain things as it goes up the
chain. I have made several suggestions to them about their web site,
and wishlists in particular. (a feature, buy the way that is really
cool!) They have been courteous and respectful. I imagine there is a
constant turn-over in front line order takers, and I think they are (on
the whole) well trained. I have used Wicks, Dillsburg, WagAero, Chief,
and others, and will continue to shop where I feel like. I think I
hold suppliers up to a pretty tall standard, and most of the time AS&S
measures up. What does it say about a company that will check its'
pulse in the real world by monitoring groups like this? I know this
isn't the first time. Check the archives and you might even find a post
or two by Jim Irwin. No, they aren't perfect, but they sure are not
among those who ignore their customers. I'm not paid or compensated for
my opinions, and I know I'd be in a world of hurt without my free annual
parts reference guide, er, AS&S catalog.
Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Piet pics on the web
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Just noticed that there are a batch of great new Pietenpol pictures on
airport-data.com submitted by Mike Madrid (a professional photographer).
Check out the shot of Chuck coming in for a landing in NX770CG!
here's a link:
http://www.airport-data.com/search/search3.html?code=pietenpol
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then sketched a
few lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level" and the top
longeron, then measured the angle. It's not really precise, since the
pictures are not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the ground
surface becomes "fuzzy" with grass, but it gives an approximation. One
thing that becomes apparent is that there do seem to be variations in
the resulting angles. About a 4 or 5 degree range, which backs up the
calculations arrived at by Chris Tracy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that from the
target (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Pretty cool, Bill.
Jack Phillips
Hoping to fly NX899JP tomorrow
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then sketched a few
lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level" and the top longer
on, then measured the angle. It's not really precise, since the pictures ar
e not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the ground surface becomes "fuz
zy" with grass, but it gives an approximation. One thing that becomes appar
ent is that there do seem to be variations in the resulting angles. About a
4 or 5 degree range, which backs up the calculations arrived at by Chris T
racy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that from the tar
get (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject:
Re: Weight and balance advise
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Rick,
I designed the motor mount about 4" longer than normal for a o-235 lyco
so my weight (280lbs) with min. fuel would not get too close to the back
end of the envelope. One of the guys that flys my Piete is about 150lbs
and has to hold the nose up with back pressure on the stick when flying
with full tanks (about 12" forward of LE wings). He has min. problems
with authority of tail to control the plane's pitch. My trim tab could
have been a bit bigger on the elevator to help with his problem, also a
washer or two under the horiz stab front connecting point to fuse could
help if lighter pilots fly plane most of the time. The flat plane of
the horiz stab would act like a big trim tab if canted upward a few
degrees at leading edge. I figure a light 100lb pilot would have
trouble with my plane unless lead is added to the tail or the pilot sat
on a block of lead. The most dangerous situation is not making the
plane so it will always stall nose down. A flat tail heavy stall can't
be recovered. So I recommend you extend the motor mount even more
forward so you can fly from the back seat with max. 250 lbs, min. fuel
and still not be back behind the cg envelope. Remember the coverings on
the tail surfaces have a very long arm, plus the rear wheel has long
arm. You could under compensate for this even with your 200lbs. It's
easy to add weight to the tail later but harder to add weight to the
nose area.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance advise
Guys
Have just done a preliminary weighting of my uncovered airframe to
figure out where to place my corvair engine so I can make my motor
mount. I want to try to keep my cabanes vertical. Question is where do I
want my CG point to end up? Obviously between 15 and 20 inches aft of
the LE. I am using a 17 gallon cowl fuel tank so I have calculated with
me in the back seat (a little over 200 lbs) and minimal fuel (say 2
gallons, 12 lbs), if the CG is at the rear limit of 20" then with a full
tank the CG will be in the center of the range around 17 1/2". However
doing it this way could lead to a rearward CG problem with minimal fuel
and heavier pilots (or a heavier me some day). So I can have the minimal
fuel CG an inch ahead of the rear limit (19") and still be in the range
with full fuel but that would limit lighter weight pilots with full fuel
(although I don't know any lightweight pilots, what is the lightest Piet
pilot you guys have ever seen?).
Am leaning toward designing for the minimum fuel CG an inch ahead of
the rear limit but would appreciate any advise.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce 15 years' exp
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
I too have to give Spruce a little credit they have due. Kinda hated to
see Alexander Aero get sold to Spruce because it cut the competition and
price stability. But been dealing with Spruce since mid-80's have had
min. problems. Yes, a few order screw-ups but generally they were my
fault, didn't ask the right questions about the item I was seeing in
their catalog. Spruce always made good if it was their fault or mine.
Always prompt return credits. It's a big complex business now, but it
anyone is unhappy send a email directly to Jim Irwin or talk to him at
Oshcash or SunFun. This homebuilding business would be totally lost
without the likes of Spruce or Wicks etc. It took a lot of creativity
for guys like Bernard Pietenpol and the other genius of the golden age
of aviation to come up with flyable designs without the resource
suppliers we homebuilders have today. Now if only the EAA worked as
smoothly supporting scratch built homebuilders, it's a big business now
too.
Gordon Bowen
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft Spruce 15 years' exp
No doubt others can top it, but I've been an Aircraft Spruce customer
for 15 years. Just this morning as I was going through my receipts for
my Stinson rebuild I flipped through probably 50-70 separate orders I've
made to them. They have made some errors, I've made some too. They
have made good on all the discrepancies. There was one time I
mis-ordered and didn't discover it for over a month after receiving the
'wrong' parts. I called them up and they helped me fix my error. It
was a $200 SIRS compass. They have priced matched a Comant antenna, and
credited my CC after the sale $18. I have noticed that wood (spruce)
sales have been a problem, but like others have said, they have
corrected the issue. I don't recall having to get ill-tempered, though
my patience has worn thin having to re-explain things as it goes up the
chain. I have made several suggestions to them about their web site,
and wishlists in particular. (a feature, buy the way that is really
cool!) They have been courteous and respectful. I imagine there is a
constant turn-over in front line order takers, and I think they are (on
the whole) well trained. I have used Wicks, Dillsburg, WagAero, Chief,
and others, and will continue to shop where I feel like. I think I
hold suppliers up to a pretty tall standard, and most of the time AS&S
measures up. What does it say about a company that will check its'
pulse in the real world by monitoring groups like this? I know this
isn't the first time. Check the archives and you might even find a post
or two by Jim Irwin. No, they aren't perfect, but they sure are not
among those who ignore their customers. I'm not paid or compensated for
my opinions, and I know I'd be in a world of hurt without my free annual
parts reference guide, er, AS&S catalog.
Steve E.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Yep. I may be off on the tubing sizes. I increased both gauge and
diameter, and added the cross member. Mine started failing due to the
twist induced in turns on the ground. The 'V' cannot resist the torque,
and bends just inboard of the spring near the V end. I couldn't imagine
it until I saw it. Adding the cross member gives it the rigidity it
needs.
Steve E
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Main Landing Gear Length
Steve,
I used the.049 tubing. You still think it needs the extra member?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Weight and balance advise
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Okay
Back on the road again in the later part of March. I'll be in the Atalanta area
25,26 and 27 then Tuscan 27,28,29 depart 30th am. Any flying piets or builders
in the area that wouldn't mind showing off their piets or projects?
Now that I have started building the plans are a little less user friendly and
taking a look at a finished piet and getting measurements and pictures of a work
in progress makes the task of understanding the drawings a bit more comprehensible.
I look forward to visiting.
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
From: gbowen(at)ptialaska.net
Sent: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance advise
Rick,
I designed the motor mount about 4" longer than normal for a o-235 lyco so my weight
(280lbs) with min. fuel would not get too close to the back end of the envelope.
One of the guys that flys my Piete is about 150lbs and has to hold the
nose up with back pressure on the stick when flying with full tanks (about
12" forward of LE wings). He has min. problems with authority of tail to control
the plane's pitch. My trim tab could have been a bit bigger on the elevator
to help with his problem, also a washer or two under the horiz stab front connecting
point to fuse could help if lighter pilots fly plane most of the time.
The flat plane of the horiz stab would act like a big trim tab if canted upward
a few degrees at leading edge. I figure a light 100lb pilot would have
trouble with my plane unless lead is added to the tail or the pilot sat on a block
of lead. The most dangerous situation is not making the plane so it will
always stall nose down. A flat tail heavy stall can
't be recovered. So I recommend you extend the motor mount even more forward
so you can fly from the back seat with max. 250 lbs, min. fuel and still not be
back behind the cg envelope. Remember the coverings on the tail surfaces have
a very long arm, plus the rear wheel has long arm. You could under compensate
for this even with your 200lbs. It's easy to add weight to the tail later
but harder to add weight to the nose area.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance advise
Guys
Have just done a preliminary weighting of my uncovered airframe to figure out where
to place my corvair engine so I can make my motor mount. I want to try to
keep my cabanes vertical. Question is where do I want my CG point to end up?
Obviously between 15 and 20 inches aft of the LE. I am using a 17 gallon cowl
fuel tank so I have calculated with me in the back seat (a little over 200 lbs)
and minimal fuel (say 2 gallons, 12 lbs), if the CG is at the rear limit of
20" then with a full tank the CG will be in the center of the range around 17
1/2". However doing it this way could lead to a rearward CG problem with minimal
fuel and heavier pilots (or a heavier me some day). So I can have the minimal
fuel CG an inch ahead of the rear limit (19") and still be in the range with
full fuel but that would limit lighter weight pilots with full fuel (although
I don't know any lightweight pilots, what is the lightest Piet pilot you guys
have ever seen?).
Am leaning toward designing for the minimum fuel CG an inch ahead of the rear limit
but would appreciate any advise.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
One more thing and I can't believe I forgot to mention this. The main reason
for the 13 degree target is this is what the 1933 plans show. If you assume
a 7-inch height to the tail skid using the height to the top longeron
(51-inches) on Drawing 1 (Tall wheels) you can calculate a 13 degree deck
angle. If you use the 48.5-inch measurement shown on drawing 3 for the
smaller wheels it drops down to 12 degrees. These reduce to 12.5 and 11.5
if you assume a 8 inch skid height. If you use your protractor and measure
the angle on the side view on Drawing 7 (small wheels), it is 12 degrees.
However, when I measured the side view drawing on the cover sheet of the
1937 Air Camper with 1960 Corvair Engine, I only get 10 degrees.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
Steel vs Wood
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Gentlemen,
I'm new to the Pietenpol world, and wonder why almost all of the
Pietenpol photos I can find are of the wood fuselage and almost none
with the steel tube fuselage. Are the steel tube versions less
acceptable for some reason.? Are they heavier, lighter? Less "original
Pietenpol"?
Any comments on this subject would be appreciated.
Perry Rhoads
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject:
Re: Steel vs Wood
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Perry,
N-1033B has a 4130 steel fuse, tail feathers, 0-235 engine and came in
about 670 lbs with battery.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry Rhoads
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel vs Wood
Gentlemen,
I'm new to the Pietenpol world, and wonder why almost all of the
Pietenpol photos I can find are of the wood fuselage and almost none
with the steel tube fuselage. Are the steel tube versions less
acceptable for some reason.? Are they heavier, lighter? Less "original
Pietenpol"?
Any comments on this subject would be appreciated.
Perry Rhoads
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Steel vs Wood
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Welcome to the group Perry
I chose wood because I was familiar with wood working and didn't know
how to weld. I would gather this is the reason why most choose the wood
construction over steel.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry Rhoads
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel vs Wood
Gentlemen,
I'm new to the Pietenpol world, and wonder why almost all of the
Pietenpol photos I can find are of the wood fuselage and almost none
with the steel tube fuselage. Are the steel tube versions less
acceptable for some reason.? Are they heavier, lighter? Less "original
Pietenpol"?
Any comments on this subject would be appreciated.
Perry Rhoads
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
BScott116(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Subject:
Re: Axel location Clarifications
Thanks for that information. I will be installing a Lambert 266 radial on my
project--so will start from that number. Lowell Frank in Okauchee , WI has
done this already , so I should ask him as well. Brent Scott
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject:
Steel vs Wood
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
I have heard the steel tube fuselage is actually lighter than the wood!
Believe it or not!
Dave
(Building with wood)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel vs Wood
Welcome to the group Perry
I chose wood because I was familiar with wood working and didn't know how to
weld. I would gather this is the reason why most choose the wood
construction over steel.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry Rhoads <mailto:prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 2:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel vs Wood
Gentlemen,
I'm new to the Pietenpol world, and wonder why almost all of the Pietenpol
photos I can find are of the wood fuselage and almost none with the steel
tube fuselage. Are the steel tube versions less acceptable for some reason.?
Are they heavier, lighter? Less "original Pietenpol"?
Any comments on this subject would be appreciated.
Perry Rhoads
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: registration information
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
So, if you fly under Sport Pilot, you still need bi-annual, right. I
need both before the weather gets too good.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: registration information
Raymond-- I flew my piet under the Sport Pilot regs this past summer
for a month
while I was out of medical. I see no reason why you can't register
your Piet as
a regular airplane with a standard N number and if you want to fly it
under the sport
rule it already meets the criteria.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
From:
"Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Hello Chris
Mine is a long fuselage with split gear (8.0x6 tires) and a leaf spring
tailwheel (like Mikeys), the deck angle is 11.5 degrees and here are the
measurements:
Vertical measure from floor to front landing gear attach fitting at
longeron:
30"
Rear attach fitting:
24"
Floor to bottom of tail post:
12"
Floor to center of main gear axles:
9"
Distance front landing gear fitting to tailpost:
161"
Rick
On 3/8/07, Catdesigns wrote:
>
> >
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am working on installing the wood style landing gear. According to my
> calculations to get a deck angle of 13 degrees I need the bottom of the axel
> to be 22 inches below the fuselage, measured down from the front fitting
> perpendicular to the upper longeron with the upper longeron level. This
> will require lengthening the wood landing gear 6.75 inches. If I compare
> my axel location to the split axel gear, it is a 5-inch extension. The need
> for this appears to be mostly due to the height of my tail wheel being 12
> inches, or 4.5-inches taller then the stock tail skid.
>
> Did anyone else lengthen the gear this much? Anyone see a problem in
> adding this much length? I should also add I widened the gear 6-inches to
> keep the same geometry in gear width.
>
> A search of the archives on this leads to some specific questions:
>
> Don Emch, you said you have a deck angle of 15 degrees and a tail
> wheel. Did you lengthen your gear and if so how much. Or is your high deck
> angle due only to the tall wheels.
>
> Jack Phillips, you mentioned having to add a step to get in with a 12 to
> 13 degree deck angle, did you lengthen your gear and if so how much?
>
> Mike Cuy, searching the archives you say your plane sits at 13 degrees and
> later say 11 to 12 degrees is where you set your deck angle. Which one is
> it and did you have to lengthen your gear legs to get it?
>
> Rick Holland, you mentioned that your lower longeron is 32-inches from the
> ground with a deck angle of 12 degrees. Where did you measure this from and
> did you lengthen your gear?
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris Tracy
>
> --------
> Chris Tracy
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99477#99477
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject:
Re: Steel vs Wood
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
I have aPiet built from steel tubing powered with a Cont. A-65, and a 30
Ft. wing. It weighs 670 lb.
Bill Rewey has a Piet built with all wood powered by a Cont. A-65 and a
30 ft. wing and It weighs 670 lb.
About the one benefit my tube fuse has over the wood one is that it has
a door for the front cockpit.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel vs Wood
Perry,
N-1033B has a 4130 steel fuse, tail feathers, 0-235 engine and came in
about 670 lbs with battery.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Perry Rhoads
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel vs Wood
Gentlemen,
I'm new to the Pietenpol world, and wonder why almost all of the
Pietenpol photos I can find are of the wood fuselage and almost none
with the steel tube fuselage. Are the steel tube versions less
acceptable for some reason.? Are they heavier, lighter? Less "original
Pietenpol"?
Any comments on this subject would be appreciated.
Perry Rhoads
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 09, 2007
Hi Chris,
My gear is the steel split axle basically right off of the plans. I'm using
19" rims with a 3.20/3.60 tire which makes the total tire height somewhere around
26". I went this route because of a picture I saw several years ago of Mr.
Pietenpol's 12988 that he built. He used the split axle gear with wire wheels.
My deck angle is around 15 degrees. Over the nose visibility isn't the
best in the three-point but it's easy to get used to. The landing characteristics
are really nice as long as I get it slow enough to stall into the three-point
touchdown, which with a little headwind seems ridiculously slow.
Not too long ago Frank Pavliga and I were discussing how similar our deck angles
were and how the view out of each others ships on the ground is almost the
same. He did mention that he used to have a different gear on his. It was
intentionally built with the axle moved forward. They didn't like that so they
built one with the correct proportions. They did make it proportional though
to the longer fuselage. The Flying and Glider Manual gear was designed for
the shorter Flying and Glider Manual fuelage. It is shorter than the short version
of the 1933 plans. Frank said he simply took the measurements from that
original gear and scaled them up to match the correct proportions of the longest
fuselage (the Corvair '60s fuselage). This gave the deck angle on his that
would have been similar to what would have been on the shortest fuselage Flying
and Glider Manual ship. He is currently running 21" rims. He used to have
18" rims, but those are now on the Waco 9.
My tailpost is probably somewhere around 9 or 10 inches off the ground. Probably
a couple inces higher than just having a skid. It's a 4" wheel and I kept
the spring pretty short.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg
Chris, I really enjoy your website. It's really great of you to provide this
resource to everyone. I know I could not have built mine without being able
to see other projects.
Really looking forward to our field firming up a little so I can get it dirty
again!
Don Emch
Nx899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99751#99751
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Don,
Thanks for the information. I'm having trouble making your dimensions work.
When I draw them out I get a deck angle of 11 degrees. Everyone look at
Drawing No. 3 of the plans, I'm using the 48.5-inch dimension minus half of
the 19-inch wheels to locate the axel 39" below the top longeron
(48.5"-9.5"=39"). This is where I believe the axel will end up on the plans
built split axel gear. Have I done something wrong in my attached drawing?
To have gotten 15 degrees it looks like you would have had to lengthen the
gear 9 inches. I looked at your pictures again and you wheels appear to be
well below the bottom of the fuselage.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/DSCN03791.jpg
In the attached drawing the wheel is only 3-inches below the bottom
longeron.
Don, do you know the wheel base (distance between the wheels)? Maybe its
narrower then it's supposed to be and that's why your gear is tall. Are you
sure about this angle? How far is your axel below the fuselage? How about
Franks?
Good grief it's 12:37 am and I'm really confused ............ Guess I will
go to bed.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Hi Chris,
> My gear is the steel split axle basically right off of the plans. I'm
> using 19" rims with a 3.20/3.60 tire which makes the total tire height
> somewhere around 26". I went this route because of a picture I saw
> several years ago of Mr. Pietenpol's 12988 that he built. He used the
> split axle gear with wire wheels. My deck angle is around 15 degrees.
> Over the nose visibility isn't the best in the three-point but it's easy
> to get used to. The landing characteristics are really nice as long as I
> get it slow enough to stall into the three-point touchdown, which with a
> little headwind seems ridiculously slow.
> Not too long ago Frank Pavliga and I were discussing how similar our
> deck angles were and how the view out of each others ships on the ground
> is almost the same. He did mention that he used to have a different gear
> on his. It was intentionally built with the axle moved forward. They
> didn't like that so they built one with the correct proportions. They did
> make it proportional though to the longer fuselage. The Flying and Glider
> Manual gear was designed for the shorter Flying and Glider Manual fuelage.
> It is shorter than the short version of the 1933 plans. Frank said he
> simply took the measurements from that original gear and scaled them up to
> match the correct proportions of the longest fuselage (the Corvair '60s
> fuselage). This gave the deck angle on his that would have been similar
> to what would have been on the shortest fuselage Flying and Glider Manual
> ship. He is currently running 21" rims. He used to have 18" rims, but
> those are now on the Waco 9.
> My tailpost is probably somewhere around 9 or 10 inches off the ground.
> Probably a couple inces higher than just having a skid. It's a 4" wheel
> and I kept the spring pretty short.
>
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg
>
> Chris, I really enjoy your website. It's really great of you to provide
> this resource to everyone. I know I could not have built mine without
> being able to see other projects.
> Really looking forward to our field firming up a little so I can get it
> dirty again!
> Don Emch
> Nx899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99751#99751
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Side View
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Anyone have a really good side view of Don's plane or Sky Gypsy (Frank P.)?
Knowing the wheel size I can probably determine the distance the axels are
below the fuselage.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Don,
19 inch wheels, what about tyre size?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Don,
Thanks for the information. I'm having trouble making your dimensions work.
When I draw them out I get a deck angle of 11 degrees. Everyone look at
Drawing No. 3 of the plans, I'm using the 48.5-inch dimension minus half of
the 19-inch wheels to locate the axel 39" below the top longeron
(48.5"-9.5"=39"). This is where I believe the axel will end up on the plans
built split axel gear. Have I done something wrong in my attached drawing?
To have gotten 15 degrees it looks like you would have had to lengthen the
gear 9 inches. I looked at your pictures again and you wheels appear to be
well below the bottom of the fuselage.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/DSCN03791.jpg
In the attached drawing the wheel is only 3-inches below the bottom
longeron.
Don, do you know the wheel base (distance between the wheels)? Maybe its
narrower then it's supposed to be and that's why your gear is tall. Are you
sure about this angle? How far is your axel below the fuselage? How about
Franks?
Good grief it's 12:37 am and I'm really confused ............ Guess I will
go to bed.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Hi Chris,
> My gear is the steel split axle basically right off of the plans. I'm
> using 19" rims with a 3.20/3.60 tire which makes the total tire height
> somewhere around 26". I went this route because of a picture I saw
> several years ago of Mr. Pietenpol's 12988 that he built. He used the
> split axle gear with wire wheels. My deck angle is around 15 degrees.
> Over the nose visibility isn't the best in the three-point but it's easy
> to get used to. The landing characteristics are really nice as long as I
> get it slow enough to stall into the three-point touchdown, which with a
> little headwind seems ridiculously slow.
> Not too long ago Frank Pavliga and I were discussing how similar our
> deck angles were and how the view out of each others ships on the ground
> is almost the same. He did mention that he used to have a different gear
> on his. It was intentionally built with the axle moved forward. They
> didn't like that so they built one with the correct proportions. They did
> make it proportional though to the longer fuselage. The Flying and Glider
> Manual gear was designed for the shorter Flying and Glider Manual fuelage.
> It is shorter than the short version of the 1933 plans. Frank said he
> simply took the measurements from that original gear and scaled them up to
> match the correct proportions of the longest fuselage (the Corvair '60s
> fuselage). This gave the deck angle on his that would have been similar
> to what would have been on the shortest fuselage Flying and Glider Manual
> ship. He is currently running 21" rims. He used to have 18" rims, but
> those are now on the Waco 9.
> My tailpost is probably somewhere around 9 or 10 inches off the ground.
> Probably a couple inces higher than just having a skid. It's a 4" wheel
> and I kept the spring pretty short.
>
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg
>
> Chris, I really enjoy your website. It's really great of you to provide
> this resource to everyone. I know I could not have built mine without
> being able to see other projects.
> Really looking forward to our field firming up a little so I can get it
> dirty again!
> Don Emch
> Nx899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99751#99751
>
>
>
--
6:53 PM
--
6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Sorry Chris, this should have been addressed to you.
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
Johnson
Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Don,
19 inch wheels, what about tyre size?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Don,
Thanks for the information. I'm having trouble making your dimensions work.
When I draw them out I get a deck angle of 11 degrees. Everyone look at
Drawing No. 3 of the plans, I'm using the 48.5-inch dimension minus half of
the 19-inch wheels to locate the axel 39" below the top longeron
(48.5"-9.5"=39"). This is where I believe the axel will end up on the plans
built split axel gear. Have I done something wrong in my attached drawing?
To have gotten 15 degrees it looks like you would have had to lengthen the
gear 9 inches. I looked at your pictures again and you wheels appear to be
well below the bottom of the fuselage.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/DSCN03791.jpg
In the attached drawing the wheel is only 3-inches below the bottom
longeron.
Don, do you know the wheel base (distance between the wheels)? Maybe its
narrower then it's supposed to be and that's why your gear is tall. Are you
sure about this angle? How far is your axel below the fuselage? How about
Franks?
Good grief it's 12:37 am and I'm really confused ............ Guess I will
go to bed.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Hi Chris,
> My gear is the steel split axle basically right off of the plans. I'm
> using 19" rims with a 3.20/3.60 tire which makes the total tire height
> somewhere around 26". I went this route because of a picture I saw
> several years ago of Mr. Pietenpol's 12988 that he built. He used the
> split axle gear with wire wheels. My deck angle is around 15 degrees.
> Over the nose visibility isn't the best in the three-point but it's easy
> to get used to. The landing characteristics are really nice as long as I
> get it slow enough to stall into the three-point touchdown, which with a
> little headwind seems ridiculously slow.
> Not too long ago Frank Pavliga and I were discussing how similar our
> deck angles were and how the view out of each others ships on the ground
> is almost the same. He did mention that he used to have a different gear
> on his. It was intentionally built with the axle moved forward. They
> didn't like that so they built one with the correct proportions. They did
> make it proportional though to the longer fuselage. The Flying and Glider
> Manual gear was designed for the shorter Flying and Glider Manual fuelage.
> It is shorter than the short version of the 1933 plans. Frank said he
> simply took the measurements from that original gear and scaled them up to
> match the correct proportions of the longest fuselage (the Corvair '60s
> fuselage). This gave the deck angle on his that would have been similar
> to what would have been on the shortest fuselage Flying and Glider Manual
> ship. He is currently running 21" rims. He used to have 18" rims, but
> those are now on the Waco 9.
> My tailpost is probably somewhere around 9 or 10 inches off the ground.
> Probably a couple inces higher than just having a skid. It's a 4" wheel
> and I kept the spring pretty short.
>
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg
>
> Chris, I really enjoy your website. It's really great of you to provide
> this resource to everyone. I know I could not have built mine without
> being able to see other projects.
> Really looking forward to our field firming up a little so I can get it
> dirty again!
> Don Emch
> Nx899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99751#99751
>
>
>
--
6:53 PM
--
6:53 PM
--
6:53 PM
--
6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Subject:
Re: Weight and balance advise
Pieters, When you fill out your wt and balance for the FAA paperwork what
wt. do you use. Your wt., 170 lbs or something in between? I Iowa with
electricity and starting to look like spring
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
wire wheels
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Hmmmmmm.....just ran across this. Have no additional info:
http://www.americanwire.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
a ready-made source for wire wheels: Flyboys
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Group,
A friend in North Carolina is retrofitting his GN-1 with wire wheels and
he wanted me to make him a set but not having the time or
desire I steered him to this site which is the gent that made the wire
wheels for some of the airplanes that they built/used in the movie
Flyboys.
There are tons of good photos and measurements and the price seems very
reasonable. Check it out if you feel the need for catching bugs
in your spokes.
Mike C.
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Default.asp?page=76
Two welded hubs sell for $195 per pair and have a larger inside hub
with a bolt hole pattern for a brake.
Wheel kits ready to be laced with 2 tires, 2 tubes and 2 bearing sets
sell for $495. This also includes a step-by-step detailed video.
The weight of 2 hubs is "about" 2 lbs.
(We couldn't get them to register on a digital scale.)
The weight of ONE wheel complete with tire and tube is 18 lbs.
So, two COMPLETE wheels will weigh 36 lbs.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Peter,
Shown on the plans, the overall height of the tire and rim combo is 19
inches. The plans show the height of the upper longeron above the ground.
Therefore I subtracted half the height of the tire-rim combo to arrive at
the distance the axel lies below the upper longeron. I believe you built
your using the British plans so you may not have this drawing.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
>
> Sorry Chris, this should have been addressed to you.
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
> Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
>
>
> Don,
>
> 19 inch wheels, what about tyre size?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
> Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:38 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Don,
>
> Thanks for the information. I'm having trouble making your dimensions
> work.
>
> When I draw them out I get a deck angle of 11 degrees. Everyone look at
> Drawing No. 3 of the plans, I'm using the 48.5-inch dimension minus half
> of
> the 19-inch wheels to locate the axel 39" below the top longeron
> (48.5"-9.5"=39"). This is where I believe the axel will end up on the
> plans
>
> built split axel gear. Have I done something wrong in my attached
> drawing?
> To have gotten 15 degrees it looks like you would have had to lengthen the
> gear 9 inches. I looked at your pictures again and you wheels appear to
> be
> well below the bottom of the fuselage.
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/DSCN03791.jpg
> In the attached drawing the wheel is only 3-inches below the bottom
> longeron.
>
> Don, do you know the wheel base (distance between the wheels)? Maybe its
> narrower then it's supposed to be and that's why your gear is tall. Are
> you
> sure about this angle? How far is your axel below the fuselage? How
> about
> Franks?
>
> Good grief it's 12:37 am and I'm really confused ............ Guess I will
> go to bed.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:32 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
>
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>> My gear is the steel split axle basically right off of the plans. I'm
>> using 19" rims with a 3.20/3.60 tire which makes the total tire height
>> somewhere around 26". I went this route because of a picture I saw
>> several years ago of Mr. Pietenpol's 12988 that he built. He used the
>> split axle gear with wire wheels. My deck angle is around 15 degrees.
>> Over the nose visibility isn't the best in the three-point but it's easy
>> to get used to. The landing characteristics are really nice as long as I
>> get it slow enough to stall into the three-point touchdown, which with a
>> little headwind seems ridiculously slow.
>> Not too long ago Frank Pavliga and I were discussing how similar our
>> deck angles were and how the view out of each others ships on the ground
>> is almost the same. He did mention that he used to have a different gear
>> on his. It was intentionally built with the axle moved forward. They
>> didn't like that so they built one with the correct proportions. They
>> did
>
>> make it proportional though to the longer fuselage. The Flying and
>> Glider
>
>> Manual gear was designed for the shorter Flying and Glider Manual
>> fuelage.
>
>> It is shorter than the short version of the 1933 plans. Frank said he
>> simply took the measurements from that original gear and scaled them up
>> to
>
>> match the correct proportions of the longest fuselage (the Corvair '60s
>> fuselage). This gave the deck angle on his that would have been similar
>> to what would have been on the shortest fuselage Flying and Glider Manual
>> ship. He is currently running 21" rims. He used to have 18" rims, but
>> those are now on the Waco 9.
>> My tailpost is probably somewhere around 9 or 10 inches off the ground.
>> Probably a couple inces higher than just having a skid. It's a 4" wheel
>> and I kept the spring pretty short.
>>
>> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg
>>
>> Chris, I really enjoy your website. It's really great of you to
>> provide
>
>> this resource to everyone. I know I could not have built mine without
>> being able to see other projects.
>> Really looking forward to our field firming up a little so I can get it
>> dirty again!
>> Don Emch
>> Nx899DE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99751#99751
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Air Camper with Scout Gear
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
I came across this Air Camper for sale on Barnstormers.com. Over the years a
few people have asked about possibility of installing the Scout landing gear
on an Air Camper. This is the first Air Camper I have seen with this type of
gear. I guess this answers the question of will it work. There are a
couple of more pictures in the add on Barnstormers.com
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Re: Air Camper with Scout Gear
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Given the way the gear fittings look, and the steps on the side, this
looks like it may be a steel tube fuselage.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Catdesigns<mailto:catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper with Scout Gear
I came across this Air Camper for sale on Barnstormers.com. Over the
years a
few people have asked about possibility of installing the Scout
landing gear
on an Air Camper. This is the first Air Camper I have seen with this
type of
gear. I guess this answers the question of will it work. There are a
couple of more pictures in the add on Barnstormers.com
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
I had to do a w/b recently for DAR on Cozy. He wanted 1) a sample
envelope showing most forward and rear empty CG, 2) within this envelope
a sample loading showing max. allowable weight, and min. allowable
weight. 3) a sample calculation showing typical loadings with arms for
each movable thing ie. pilot, passengers, baggage, fuel. The DAR wanted
to see it kinda like you'd see a typical write-up in a C-172 or any
storebought spamcan manual.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight and balance advise
Pieters, When you fill out your wt and balance for the FAA paperwork
what wt. do you use. Your wt., 170 lbs or something in between? I
Iowa with electricity and starting to look like spring
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Subject:
Re: Weight and balance advise
In a message dated 3/10/2007 4:47:01 AM Central Standard Time,
Wizzard187(at)aol.com writes:
Pieters, When you fill out your wt and balance for the FAA paperwork what
wt. do you use. Your wt., 170 lbs or something in between? I Iowa with
electricity and starting to look like spring
The primary weight and balance should be the empty weight...no fuel, no
passengers. Then you can do seperate calculations to show loading configurations.
I listed all of my calculations at the bottom of this page of my web site :
_http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html_
(http://nx770cg.com/OperationsManual.html)
Chuck G.
NX770CG
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
coverd wire wheels & DVD recorders
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Ron,
I have no idea how many wire-wheeled Piets have coverings over the
spokes but as a very rough guess I would say perhaps 20% ? Frank
Pavliga and I went round and round about this some time back and we both
concluded that whatever the builder/owner prefers is the correct choice
!
As an aside, I have to post this question to you guys because there must
be something that I'm overlooking. My wife got me a DVD recorder for
Christmas and I just got around to hooking it up and I cannot for the
life of me get the menu to come up on my tv. Here are the facts.
TV only has antenna input---nothing else.
I have linked an antenna to my VHS deck antenna in.
I joined the VHS deck to the DVD deck with the multi-color
audio/video/stereo cable. (VHS outputs to DVD inputs)
Connected DVD coaxial cable to tv antenna in.
I have the VHS on "line"
I have my TV on "line"
The remote has fresh batteries and as far as I can tell I'm going thru
the sequence fine in the instruction manual.
Any ideas from the genius pool out there ? (you all are....come on
now and I substantiate that by the fact that you are on this list !)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Air Camper with Scout Gear
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
It may not be a steel tube fuselage. NX18235 has a similar fixed step on a
wood fuselage. It is a steel tube mounted through two blocks of wood which
are glued to the top of the lower longerons.
Greg C.
>
>
> Note that it must be a steel tube fuselage given the style of fixed tube
> step it wears.
>
> michael silvius
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 12:21 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper with Scout Gear
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
RF modulator
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I love Google.com I just found out what I need to buy from Radio
Shack to make my older tv in the studio work with my DVD recorder.
Here's my solution and thank you in advance to guys out there who
already were either smart enough to know this or actually have
up to date tv sets with a/v inputs.
Mike C.
So, what is a person to do? Most people have their antenna or cable
connected to the VCR and, from there, the VCR is connected to their TV.
However, how can you connect a DVD player to your TV, if your TV doesn't
have AV inputs that are compatible with the DVD player? Secondly, how
can you connect both your VCR and DVD player your TV at the same time if
your TV only has one cable or antenna input?
The answer to the above questions is a little black box that has been
around for years called an RF modulator (Radio Frequency Modulator). The
function of an RF modulator is simple. The RF modulator converts the
video (and/or audio) output of a DVD player (or camcorder or video game)
into a channel 3/4 signal that is compatible with a TV's cable or
antenna input.
There are many RF modulators available, but all function in a similar
fashion. The main feature of an RF modulator is that makes it perfectly
suited for use with DVD is the capacity for it to accept the standard
audio/video outputs of a DVD player and the cable input (even passed
through a VCR) simultaneously.
Setting your RF modulator is fairly straightforward:
First: Just plug your cable/vcr output into its cable input connection
of the RF modulator and the DVD player into the RF modulator's AV
inputs.
Second: Connect a standard cable from the RF modulator to your TV.
Third: Select either the channel 3 or 4 output on the back of the RF
modulator.
Fourth: Turn the TV on and the RF modulator will automatically detect
your cable input for the TV. When you want to watch your DVD player,
just put the TV on channel 3 or 4, turn the DVD on and the RF modulator
will automatically detect the DVD player and will display your movie.
Although there are minor differences in brands of RF modulators the set
up is basically as outlined above.
Additional Considerations
If you don't have a stereo system you can also hookup the DVD player's
stereo outputs to the RF modulator as well. Obviously you won't get the
benefits of surround sound, but you will hear the audio through the TV's
speakers. Also, you won't get the full benefits of a DVD quality picture
and the conversion from video to RF (cable) downgrades the resolution.
However, as you switch between your VCR and DVD you will notice the
quality of the DVD image is still superior than anything you probably
have viewed on your TV.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
>From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
<harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
The picture you sent of the rear of your aircraft is the picture I have
been waiting for. I needed to know the entry point of the cables for the
rear wheel control. Thank you very much. Just one more thing I need to
know; do you use pulleys to direct the cables to the rudder peddles or
do you take them there directly? Thanks for any info you can give.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Subject:
Re: coverd wire wheels & DVD recorders
Try this
On your remote there should be a TV/VIDEO button. Have your tv ON and your
DVD ON. Press the TV/Video button 2 times until video 2 appears. Then use your
DVD remote to PLAY your pic
Ole Rebel
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"Bill Princell" <weprincell(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Air Camper with Scout Gear
I can confirm that the Air Camper with the Scout gear is wood/fabric
construction. I helped the previous owner with repairs while it was based at
LaBelle, Fl early last year. It was previously based at Punta Gorda and had
suffered damage from hurricane Charley. Overall workmanship by the original
A&P builder and also the previous owner who rebuilt it was excellent. A very
nice airplane. Pictures attached.
Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Subject:
Re: coverd wire wheels & DVD recorders
Mike,
You must have misunderstood me. I was wondering exactly what the material
is that the wheels are covered with. Is it fabric?
Ron
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Wing drag wires
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Ok next question-what are you guys using as size for the brace cables that run
in the same plane as the wing struts-(the X brace cables.) I cannot find size
or rigging drawing on the GN-1 plans.I am sure I got the idea that 3/16" cable
was called for, but have talked to a pietenpol flyer using 1/8" cables.Anybody
that could help me I'd apreciate it-I have the Carleson aluminum wing struts
and would like to know the X-brace cable will take their share if the load.also
anyone with a good price on turnbuckles out there?Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99828#99828
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Air Camper with Scout Gear
Bill,
Do you have any pictures of how the steps were secured inside?
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Princell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Camper with Scout Gear
I can confirm that the Air Camper with the Scout gear is wood/fabric
construction. I helped the previous owner with repairs while it was
based at LaBelle, Fl early last year. It was previously based at Punta
Gorda and had suffered damage from hurricane Charley. Overall
workmanship by the original A&P builder and also the previous owner who
rebuilt it was excellent. A very nice airplane. Pictures attached.
Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Wing drag wires
I used 1/8" throughout.
I'm thinking you are remembering 3/32" not 3/16".
3/32" was commonly used on the older planes.
If you at this point on the wings,,,,,bone up on "trammeling" in the
archives.
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing drag wires
>
>
> Ok next question-what are you guys using as size for the brace cables that
> run in the same plane as the wing struts-(the X brace cables.) I cannot
> find size or rigging drawing on the GN-1 plans.I am sure I got the idea
> that 3/16" cable was called for, but have talked to a pietenpol flyer
> using 1/8" cables.Anybody that could help me I'd apreciate it-I have the
> Carleson aluminum wing struts and would like to know the X-brace cable
> will take their share if the load.also anyone with a good price on
> turnbuckles out there?Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99828#99828
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Wing drag wires
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
<harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I used 1/8th on mine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
skellytownflyer
Sent: March 10, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing drag wires
Ok next question-what are you guys using as size for the brace cables
that run in the same plane as the wing struts-(the X brace cables.) I
cannot find size or rigging drawing on the GN-1 plans.I am sure I got
the idea that 3/16" cable was called for, but have talked to a
pietenpol flyer using 1/8" cables.Anybody that could help me I'd
apreciate it-I have the Carleson aluminum wing struts and would like to
know the X-brace cable will take their share if the load.also anyone
with a good price on turnbuckles out there?Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99828#99828
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Chris,
Yes I do have the drawing. The British plans are the same as the plans I
bought from Don Pietenpol but with some modifications. It's just that my
rims are 18 inch with a 3.5 inch tyre. That makes for 25 inch diameter
wheel/tyre combo.
Cheers
Peter.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Sunday, 11 March 2007 4:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Peter,
Shown on the plans, the overall height of the tire and rim combo is 19
inches. The plans show the height of the upper longeron above the ground.
Therefore I subtracted half the height of the tire-rim combo to arrive at
the distance the axel lies below the upper longeron. I believe you built
your using the British plans so you may not have this drawing.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
>
> Sorry Chris, this should have been addressed to you.
>
> Peter.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
> Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
>
>
> Don,
>
> 19 inch wheels, what about tyre size?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> Wonthaggi Australia
> http://www.cpc-world.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
> Sent: Saturday, 10 March 2007 7:38 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Don,
>
> Thanks for the information. I'm having trouble making your dimensions
> work.
>
> When I draw them out I get a deck angle of 11 degrees. Everyone look at
> Drawing No. 3 of the plans, I'm using the 48.5-inch dimension minus half
> of
> the 19-inch wheels to locate the axel 39" below the top longeron
> (48.5"-9.5"=39"). This is where I believe the axel will end up on the
> plans
>
> built split axel gear. Have I done something wrong in my attached
> drawing?
> To have gotten 15 degrees it looks like you would have had to lengthen the
> gear 9 inches. I looked at your pictures again and you wheels appear to
> be
> well below the bottom of the fuselage.
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/DSCN03791.jpg
> In the attached drawing the wheel is only 3-inches below the bottom
> longeron.
>
> Don, do you know the wheel base (distance between the wheels)? Maybe its
> narrower then it's supposed to be and that's why your gear is tall. Are
> you
> sure about this angle? How far is your axel below the fuselage? How
> about
> Franks?
>
> Good grief it's 12:37 am and I'm really confused ............ Guess I will
> go to bed.
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 9:32 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
>
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>> My gear is the steel split axle basically right off of the plans. I'm
>> using 19" rims with a 3.20/3.60 tire which makes the total tire height
>> somewhere around 26". I went this route because of a picture I saw
>> several years ago of Mr. Pietenpol's 12988 that he built. He used the
>> split axle gear with wire wheels. My deck angle is around 15 degrees.
>> Over the nose visibility isn't the best in the three-point but it's easy
>> to get used to. The landing characteristics are really nice as long as I
>> get it slow enough to stall into the three-point touchdown, which with a
>> little headwind seems ridiculously slow.
>> Not too long ago Frank Pavliga and I were discussing how similar our
>> deck angles were and how the view out of each others ships on the ground
>> is almost the same. He did mention that he used to have a different gear
>> on his. It was intentionally built with the axle moved forward. They
>> didn't like that so they built one with the correct proportions. They
>> did
>
>> make it proportional though to the longer fuselage. The Flying and
>> Glider
>
>> Manual gear was designed for the shorter Flying and Glider Manual
>> fuelage.
>
>> It is shorter than the short version of the 1933 plans. Frank said he
>> simply took the measurements from that original gear and scaled them up
>> to
>
>> match the correct proportions of the longest fuselage (the Corvair '60s
>> fuselage). This gave the deck angle on his that would have been similar
>> to what would have been on the shortest fuselage Flying and Glider Manual
>> ship. He is currently running 21" rims. He used to have 18" rims, but
>> those are now on the Waco 9.
>> My tailpost is probably somewhere around 9 or 10 inches off the ground.
>> Probably a couple inces higher than just having a skid. It's a 4" wheel
>> and I kept the spring pretty short.
>>
>> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/dscn0380_596.jpg
>>
>> Chris, I really enjoy your website. It's really great of you to
>> provide
>
>> this resource to everyone. I know I could not have built mine without
>> being able to see other projects.
>> Really looking forward to our field firming up a little so I can get it
>> dirty again!
>> Don Emch
>> Nx899DE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99751#99751
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
> --
> 6:53 PM
>
>
>
--
6:53 PM
--
6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
"Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Air Camper with Scout Gear
Very nice, the "Tigermoth" rudder and vert. stab. really give it a different
look, like the double fuselage side farings also.
Rick
On 3/10/07, Bill Princell wrote:
>
> I can confirm that the Air Camper with the Scout gear is wood/fabric
> construction. I helped the previous owner with repairs while it was based at
> LaBelle, Fl early last year. It was previously based at Punta Gorda and had
> suffered damage from hurricane Charley. Overall workmanship by the original
> A&P builder and also the previous owner who rebuilt it was excellent. A very
> nice airplane. Pictures attached.
>
> Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Subject:
Covered wire wheels
Ron,
Last year at Brodhead Dennis Hall (Sky Scout) was explaining in great detail
to anyone interested, exactly how he covered his wire wheels. Yes, this is
the same fabric that is used to cover the airplane. For some great detail
shots, go to _westcoastpiet.com_ (mip://02af1e10/westcoastpiet.com) and look at
the pictures under Dennis Hall. This is how he did it.
Deflate the tires completely and break all the beads free. Cut a piece of
plywood (1/8"?) in the form of a circle, with the O.D. about 4" (I'm
guessing) and the I.D. about 2". Cut a piece of fabric and lay it out on the wheel.
Cut it round, maybe 2 inches greater in diameter all around than the rims.
Glue the plywood circle to the fabric in the center (on the inside face). Cut
slits to the inside of the plywood circle and wrap the ends around and glue
in place, forming the center hole. This glued plywood center hole becomes
"free floating" for the rest of the procedure. Now lay the circular fabric
piece out over the wire rim, with the plywood inner circle, facing to the inside.
Cut slits in the fabric where it extends beyond the rim, wrapping it and
gluing to the inside of the rim (this glued portion will be hidden once the
tire is inflated again.) Carefully take your iron and heat the fabric in such
a
way as to always keep the plywood circle where it should be in the center.
Mask the tire and paint the fabric. When painting is complete, simply re
inflate the tire and vooala!, there you have it!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
Go here and follow the pics then clik to page 4
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're
right!"
~ Henry Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
The wood gear legs (for me anyway) were the single most difficult part
of the entire airplane but you can be assured
that your type of gear legs with the wire wheels will set your
airplane apart from every single other airplane and it is
the very first thing that people will admire and enjoy talking about,
looking at, and taking pictures of.
Mike C.
PS....the wood gear and wire wheels were well worth all the troubles,
headaches, gnashing of teeth, and money.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
3/9/2007 6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The one important thing I have not seen any mention of
in this entire thread is the relationship of axle position
relative to the wing.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then sketched
a few lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level" and the
top longeron, then measured the angle. It's not really precise, since
the pictures are not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the ground
surface becomes "fuzzy" with grass, but it gives an approximation. One
thing that becomes apparent is that there do seem to be variations in
the resulting angles. About a 4 or 5 degree range, which backs up the
calculations arrived at by Chris Tracy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that from
the target (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
3/9/2007 6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Clif
I'm actually out in the garage working on the gear right now.
Take a look at the picture and you can see I stole your design. I mean,
I was inspired by your design to create a similar product manufactured
for less in China.. It works great by the way.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
Go here and follow the pics then clik to page 4
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're
right!"
~ Henry Ford
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 7:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
The wood gear legs (for me anyway) were the single most difficult
part of the entire airplane but you can be assured
that your type of gear legs with the wire wheels will set your
airplane apart from every single other airplane and it is
the very first thing that people will admire and enjoy talking
about, looking at, and taking pictures of.
Mike C.
PS....the wood gear and wire wheels were well worth all the
troubles, headaches, gnashing of teeth, and money.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Because it's a big can of worms....
But you did ask so, mine is at 21-inches back of the fire wall. But my
firewall is pushed forward 4 inches which in reality makes the axle 17
inches behind the real place for the firewall. But then again the
pilots seat is 2-inches further aft then the plans show. I plan on
moving the wing back about 3 or 4 inches (I'm a light tall skinny guy)
which should make me move the axle back more but I plan on using brakes
which would move the axel forward. So who knows if I'm right in my
placement.
Sorry to anyone who thinks I shouldn't have changed the design. It was
a long time ago and I was much younger then. But still I will have to
live with my sin. (If you cant follow my rambling the fuselage is
basically a long fuselage (+2-inches added the first bay) back the rear
seat back then it's the short fuselage to the tail.)
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The one important thing I have not seen any mention of
in this entire thread is the relationship of axle position
relative to the wing.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then
sketched a few lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level"
and the top longeron, then measured the angle. It's not really precise,
since the pictures are not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the
ground surface becomes "fuzzy" with grass, but it gives an
approximation. One thing that becomes apparent is that there do seem to
be variations in the resulting angles. About a 4 or 5 degree range,
which backs up the calculations arrived at by Chris Tracy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that from
the target (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
The axle on NX18235 is 6.5" aft of the leading edge of the wing when in
a level attitude.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The one important thing I have not seen any mention of
in this entire thread is the relationship of axle position
relative to the wing.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then
sketched a few lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level"
and the top longeron, then measured the angle. It's not really precise,
since the pictures are not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the
ground surface becomes "fuzzy" with grass, but it gives an
approximation. One thing that becomes apparent is that there do seem to
be variations in the resulting angles. About a 4 or 5 degree range,
which backs up the calculations arrived at by Chris Tracy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that from
the target (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: >From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
I just made up some Delrin (white plastic stock) fairleads and attached them to
the cross member on the bottom of the fuselage. Pulleys would make a smooth
action but the fairleads seem to work ok. I attached the tailwheel steering cables
to the rudder cables under the seat with #10 gage electrical wire connectors
available at the local hardware store. Bill Rewey offered that advice.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99894#99894
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Covered wire wheels
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Just how I did mine. Nothing to it. Just dreading when I have to change tires.
May have to reshoot the dope because I have a feeling switching tires will
mark up the dope finish.
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99895#99895
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
Chris,
I can't seem to find my figures when I trigged out my deck angle. I'll head out
to the strip tomorrow and I'll try to come up with some measurements for gear
vee lengths, heights and angles. This was an issue I thought a lot about too.
As we can there are many variations in the many different ships, so we know
that there is a wide range of what works.
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99897#99897
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
From:
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
Well, dig a hole deep enough.......... hahahaha!
Thanks bub. I'm working on my 36" center section.
Might not get much done after the Delta RAA
pancake breakfast tomorrow though! Burp!
----- Original Message -----
From: Catdesigns
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg Nighmares
Clif
I'm actually out in the garage working on the gear right now.
Take a look at the picture and you can see I stole your design. I
mean, I was inspired by your design to create a similar product
manufactured for less in China.. It works great by the way.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Take heart Chris: Wood Gear Leg
Nighmares
Go here and follow the pics then clik to page 4
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol3.html
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: Axel location Clarifications
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
I re- measured mine today to confirm. My short fuse has axle 19" back from
FW and axle is 3.5" aft of LE.
The new plane has long fuse has axle 21" back and wing isn't mounted yet.
dick N.For Rick Holland, my short fuse has a CG with min fuel and me at
19.05 and flys perfect. You are on the right track.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 12:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axel location Clarifications
>
>
> Hi, it's me again. Just a few last questions. After searching the archives
> there are some things that need to be clarified about axel placement.
>
> Greg Cardinal's and Dale Johnson's axel location sems to float around in
> the archives. I've seen pictures of the plane and I know the axel is in a
> fixed position.
> In the archives:
> Chris Bobbka said 21-inches aft of the firewall in his landing gear
> analysis.
> Then Chris and Dale reported it as a 7 inch sweep (which would put it at
> 19")
> Greg later said 20-inches.
> Then Greg says 19-inches
> Question: Greg or Dale, what is the true location of your axel?
>
>
> Dick Navratil: Is you axel location at 19" aft of the fire wall on a
> short fuselage? How about the location on your new piet?
>
>
> Lastly, anyone have the weight and balance spreadsheet Jon Dilatush
> offered to send out concerning the Weight an Balance of his Mountain
> Piet?
>
>
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, Ca
> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
I would be very interesting in your measurements. I think your right as
anything from 11 to 15 seems to work.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Chris,
> I can't seem to find my figures when I trigged out my deck angle. I'll
> head out to the strip tomorrow and I'll try to come up with some
> measurements for gear vee lengths, heights and angles. This was an issue
> I thought a lot about too. As we can there are many variations in the
> many different ships, so we know that there is a wide range of what works.
> Don E.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99897#99897
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: Wing drag wires
Date:
Mar 10, 2007
1/8" is very adequate. No need to go heavier.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 2:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing drag wires
>
>
> Ok next question-what are you guys using as size for the brace cables that
> run in the same plane as the wing struts-(the X brace cables.) I cannot
> find size or rigging drawing on the GN-1 plans.I am sure I got the idea
> that 3/16" cable was called for, but have talked to a pietenpol flyer
> using 1/8" cables.Anybody that could help me I'd apreciate it-I have the
> Carleson aluminum wing struts and would like to know the X-brace cable
> will take their share if the load.also anyone with a good price on
> turnbuckles out there?Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=99828#99828
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Bill,
I must say this st-up appears to be very simple and similar to a Fairchild type
landing gear....Can you elaboate on the modificiations to make this system
work? What additions to the structure was incorporated to allow this system to
work effectively?
Just intertested.......
KM Heide
Fargo, ND
Bill Princell wrote:
I can confirm that the Air Camper with the Scout gear is wood/fabric construction.
I helped the previous owner with repairs while it was based at LaBelle,
Fl early last year. It was previously based at Punta Gorda and had suffered damage
from hurricane Charley. Overall workmanship by the original A&P builder and
also the previous owner who rebuilt it was excellent. A very nice airplane.
Pictures attached.
Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
---------------------------------
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
My two cents worth. There seems to be WAY too much concern over thie
Deck angle thing. Here's a new low in this extensive database of deck
angles. My angle is 8 1/2 degrees, and you know what? My plane flies
great and the prop doesn't touch the ground on take off or landing.
What Greg says is the real important and only important dimension is the
distance back from the leading edge when the deck angle is level. A
half inch can make a difference in ground handling during take off. My
plane is 6 1/2". Also, Bill Rewey, I believe did some research on this
and he suggested 6 1/2 in. More important than axle location is the
fact that the front cabanes are one inch longer than the rear.
Oh Oh! did I just open a "new can of worms"?
Roman Bukolt NX20795
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The axle on NX18235 is 6.5" aft of the leading edge of the wing when
in a level attitude.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The one important thing I have not seen any mention of
in this entire thread is the relationship of axle position
relative to the wing.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then
sketched a few lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level"
and the top longeron, then measured the angle. It's not really precise,
since the pictures are not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the
ground surface becomes "fuzzy" with grass, but it gives an
approximation. One thing that becomes apparent is that there do seem to
be variations in the resulting angles. About a 4 or 5 degree range,
which backs up the calculations arrived at by Chris Tracy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that
from the target (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject:
photos on the list?
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Several posts lately have mentioned attached photos. I have not seen
any attachments. I get the digest version of the list. Are
attachments allowed on the regular list but not the digest?
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: photos on the list?
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Jeff
That is correct, no photos on digest.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 4:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: photos on the list?
>
> Several posts lately have mentioned attached photos. I have not seen
> any attachments. I get the digest version of the list. Are
> attachments allowed on the regular list but not the digest?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
From:
Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject:
Re: photos on the list?
Hi Jeff,
For technical reasons, the photos aren't included in the Digest. You can access
them, however, from the Forum interface. Just surf over to the link below and
look for the specific message:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 02:19 PM 3/11/2007 Sunday, you wrote:
>
>Several posts lately have mentioned attached photos. I have not seen
>any attachments. I get the digest version of the list. Are
>attachments allowed on the regular list but not the digest?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
I'l see your two cents and raise two cents. The only concern I have on
deck angle is, the steeper the angle, the more important to get the tail
up early on take off. When I first started flying mine, I almost had a
ground stall, not getting the tail up fast enough. Air gets under the
wing, prop effect takes right wing up and plane goes off the side of
runway.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Bukolt
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
My two cents worth. There seems to be WAY too much concern over thie
Deck angle thing. Here's a new low in this extensive database of deck
angles. My angle is 8 1/2 degrees, and you know what? My plane flies
great and the prop doesn't touch the ground on take off or landing.
What Greg says is the real important and only important dimension is
the distance back from the leading edge when the deck angle is level. A
half inch can make a difference in ground handling during take off. My
plane is 6 1/2". Also, Bill Rewey, I believe did some research on this
and he suggested 6 1/2 in. More important than axle location is the
fact that the front cabanes are one inch longer than the rear.
Oh Oh! did I just open a "new can of worms"?
Roman Bukolt NX20795
----- Original Message -----
From: gcardinal
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The axle on NX18235 is 6.5" aft of the leading edge of the wing when
in a level attitude.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
The one important thing I have not seen any mention of
in this entire thread is the relationship of axle position
relative to the wing.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Here are a few pics that I imported into a CAD program, then
sketched a few lines over the image, to approximate the "ground level"
and the top longeron, then measured the angle. It's not really precise,
since the pictures are not perfectly parallel to the planes, and the
ground surface becomes "fuzzy" with grass, but it gives an
approximation. One thing that becomes apparent is that there do seem to
be variations in the resulting angles. About a 4 or 5 degree range,
which backs up the calculations arrived at by Chris Tracy.
Overall, I get the feeling that adegree or so this way or that
from the target (13=B0) ain't gonna hurt.
Bill C.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3/9/2007 6:53 PM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject:
Thanks for info on attachments
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Hm. Maybe I need to change back to the "live" list...
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
HI,
Being deeply interested in all Ford powered Piets (as well as all piets
in general) I was wondering if anyone knows how Simon McCormick's Piet
in Australia is doing. Saw a pic of it appearing finished on Chris
Tracy's site.
I'd love to hear or get his email to hear his experiences with the Ford.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Douwe,
Simon=92s Piet is finished and flying. There was an article about it in
our
SAAA a few months ago. Apparently superb construction.
Cheers
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, 12 March 2007 12:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
HI,
Being deeply interested in all Ford powered Piets (as well as all piets
in
general) I was wondering if anyone knows how Simon McCormick's Piet in
Australia is doing. Saw a pic of it appearing finished on Chris Tracy's
site.
I'd love to hear or get his email to hear his experiences with the Ford.
Douwe
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
10/03/2007
2:25 PM
--
10/03/2007
2:25 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Douwe,
I have scanned the article. Files total 1.5Mb. Do you want me to send you a
copy?
Cheers
Peter.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, 12 March 2007 12:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
HI,
Being deeply interested in all Ford powered Piets (as well as all piets in
general) I was wondering if anyone knows how Simon McCormick's Piet in
Australia is doing. Saw a pic of it appearing finished on Chris Tracy's
site.
I'd love to hear or get his email to hear his experiences with the Ford.
Douwe
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
2:25 PM
--
2:25 PM
--
2:25 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Can I have a copy too? Please...
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Douwe,
I have scanned the article. Files total 1.5Mb. Do you want me to send
you a copy?
Cheers
Peter.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, 12 March 2007 12:23 PM
To: pietenpolgroup
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
HI,
Being deeply interested in all Ford powered Piets (as well as all
piets in general) I was wondering if anyone knows how Simon McCormick's
Piet in Australia is doing. Saw a pic of it appearing finished on Chris
Tracy's site.
I'd love to hear or get his email to hear his experiences with the
Ford.
Douwe
-- Date: 10/03/2007 2:25 PM
--
10/03/2007 2:25 PM
--
10/03/2007 2:25 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Chris,
Your last post about the reason you are interested in the steep deck angle is the
same reason I was into it, because I liked it. Well I went out to the strip
today and took a few measurements. I screwed up and I'm sorry but I gave you
some wrong numbers. I need to be more careful before I throw out numbers next
time. The top of my longeron at the tailpost is 19 1/2" above the ground.
The top of my longeron at the firewall is 57 5/8". Figuring the length of the
longeron at 172" gives an angle of 12 1/2 degrees. I don't know where I got
my 15 degree thing but it's not! Sorry about that! My tires have a diameter
of 26 1/2". The gear vees are right off of the plans. I didn't write them down
today but they did compare to what was on the plans and I don't recall their
lengths. Keep in mind the split axle vees are longer than the straight axle
vees. The only real change I made in the gear was to lengthen the axles by
2" to accomodate brakes. This gives me a track of about 60". With the bungees
tight the wheels are pulled in slightly. There is about 5 1/2" of vertical
distance between the tops of my tires and the belly. With 1" stringers on the
belly though it brings that to 4 1/2". You know all of this sounds really important
and technical but the truth is, it really is more about aesthetics.
Yeah it's gonna land a little different than the next one, but you just adapt
to it. The cool thing about the Piet is that you can build the structure very
close to the plans and still taylor it to what aesthetically pleases you! This
is one of the things that attracts so many people to the design. Is it just
me or do many other homebuilt designs ( kits especially) just seem to be boring!?
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100010#100010
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Main Landing Gear Length
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
Don,
Excellent news! I'm so glad you were wrong :-). I can get 12.5 degrees with
my current jig setup and all I need to do now is cut the legs to size. I
realized today, as I played with my CAD drawing, that I am basically making
the wood gear conform to the steel gear dimensions. Now I know I'm doing it
right and I can proceed with confidence.
A BIG BIG thank you for your effort. I owe you one.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 5:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Main Landing Gear Length
>
> Chris,
> Your last post about the reason you are interested in the steep deck angle
> is the same reason I was into it, because I liked it. Well I went out to
> the strip today and took a few measurements. I screwed up and I'm sorry
> but I gave you some wrong numbers. I need to be more careful before I
> throw out numbers next time. The top of my longeron at the tailpost is 19
> 1/2" above the ground. The top of my longeron at the firewall is 57 5/8".
> Figuring the length of the longeron at 172" gives an angle of 12 1/2
> degrees. I don't know where I got my 15 degree thing but it's not! Sorry
> about that! My tires have a diameter of 26 1/2". The gear vees are right
> off of the plans. I didn't write them down today but they did compare to
> what was on the plans and I don't recall their lengths. Keep in mind the
> split axle vees are longer than the straight axle vees. The only real
> change I made in the gear was to lengthen the axles by 2" to accomodate
> brakes. This gives me a track of !
> about 60". With the bungees tight the wheels are pulled in slightly.
> There is about 5 1/2" of vertical distance between the tops of my tires
> and the belly. With 1" stringers on the belly though it brings that to 4
> 1/2". You know all of this sounds really important and technical but the
> truth is, it really is more about aesthetics. Yeah it's gonna land a
> little different than the next one, but you just adapt to it. The cool
> thing about the Piet is that you can build the structure very close to the
> plans and still taylor it to what aesthetically pleases you! This is one
> of the things that attracts so many people to the design. Is it just me
> or do many other homebuilt designs ( kits especially) just seem to be
> boring!?
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100010#100010
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
From:
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject:
McCormack's Piet article
Peter, could you please send me a copy of the article? I'm building a Ford powered
Piet to. My mail address is moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar Thank you.
Santiago Morete
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
Wing drag wires and cables
In a message dated 3/10/2007 3:19:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
hanover(at)centramedia.net writes:
what are you guys using as size for the brace cables that run in the same
plane as the wing struts-(the X brace cables.)
I used 3/32" cable for the lift strut X cables. I also used 3/32" for the
drag / anti-drag cables, cabane cables around the front pit, and flipper cables.
I used 1/8" for the rudder cables, and 1/16" cables for the empenage and
tail wheel...the tailwheel cables go all the way up to the inboard portion of the
rudder bar.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 11, 2007
From:
Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Building a Scimitar Prop
Hello Chuck,
I just found this info about cimiterre propellers. Sorry is in french, but they
say that a photo or drawing is better than a million words... I will ask
a friend to try to translate as much as possible, if he is able to understand
the hand writing :-)
Rcaprd(at)aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/7/2007 7:31:56 PM Central Standard
Time, ggower_99(at)yahoo.com writes:
Hello Chuck,
I will love to learn carve a scimitar prop also, some day, I will appreciate any
lead for info on carving one... Dificult to find this type of info...
Please post as you learn... I carved almost all my props, only bought one for
one ultralight years ago (IVO) not a great prop...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Hey Gary,
The very best information I have on the Scimitar Prop, is a few short paragraph's,
and a few sketches, from the book by Eric Clutton, called 'PROPELLER MAKING
for the AMATEUR'. I've got the clamps, and the wood for the jig required,
and I'm looking around for prices of a stack of 24 birch planks, measuring 1/4"
thick, 3 1/2" wide, quarter sawn, and 7 feet long.
It's basically the method to get the extreme curves in the wood, to make the
Scimitar. I'm thinking of steaming the 1/4" planks and pre-bending them, before
gluing the stack together. Then place maybe five planks at a time in the
jig, clamp it down with Resorcinol Glue, then clamping down the next series
of planks with glue, and so on with each stack till it's about 6" across, which
is the width of the hub of the prop. I think this stuff works better under
clamping pressure. I use T88 exclusively, but I don't think it would work in
this application, because you're not supposed to clamp it very tightly, but then
if it had a layer of Scrim Cloth, it would maintain the bond line to at least
.002". But then this bond line would probably be much more prevalent than
if it was Resorcinal Glue.
After it's all glued up, I'll use the plan view of the prop that I have drawn
on the top of the flat, straight, steel top table that I use to build props
on. I make a templet for each 6" station of the blade of the prop. Plane the
for and aft faces of the prop hub so they are parallel with each other, and
use a carpenters square to check the plan form of the wood, against the sketch
on the table. Then it's just a matter of whittling away everything that doesn't
look like a Scimitar Propeller !! For the Continental A65, I'm going to
start out with a 74 X 44...maybe even 46 This is certainly a time consuming and
learning process, so I'll have to see what works. I've already started a video
of the beginnings of the planning process.
In the correspondence I had with Eric, it wasn't in his book, but he mentioned
it might be better to use a kind of face plate (about 1/4" thick) on the
forward and aft hub area of the prop, so the clamping pressure wouldn't be against
the edges of the 1/4" planks.
If it is successful, I'm going to build a Scimitar for the 150 hp Tailwind.
Steve Wittman was obviously very much into the Scimitar design, as you can
see on the back wall of his hanger at Pioneer Field in Oshkosh.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
Re: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Peter, Would you be so kind as to forward a copy of Simon's article?
Thanks mucho.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
BYD(at)att.net
Subject:
Steel vs Wood
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Perry,
One consideration not voiced often concerning metal fuselage Pietenpols is the
attachment of various items. Consider, just as an example the throttle on a
wooden fuselage, one can attach to the plywood side without much effort on a
metal fuselage, there is no side to attach to, its open space.
This shouldnt discourage someone from building this type, just be aware that the
plans were drawn with a wooden fuselage as the source so more engineering or
creative thinking may be needed to build to a metal fuselage. My understanding
is that the metal fuselage is about 35 lbs lighter and my partner and I decided
to use this to offset the heavier straight axle gear.
Pietenpolingly,
Bill Sayre
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Travel schedule
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
I looked at an old e mail I sent out under a different subject and wondered why
the response was so small, then I took a good look at the spelling, I will be
in Tucson, from the 27th thru the 30th of March on business and would love to
meet, greet and tell lies with another piet builder, owner or both if you are
so inclined. I'll even bring a beverage to the hangar/shop.
Have digital and tape measure will travel!
Please contact me if interested.
Thanks
John
-----Original Message-----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone know about Simon McCormick's Piet?
Peter, Would you be so kind as to forward a copy of Simon's article? Thanks mucho.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
ferry flight
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
I'm ferrying a Taylorcraft L2B (almost a military variant of a PIET)
from Utah to Michigan this week. Since I'll be in the backyard of
several piet builders and low and slow fliers, I thought I'd solicit
your input on where to land and spend the night, or just fill up. I've
flown this route twice before when I flew to Brodhead 99'. My general
route will be following I-80 across the Midwest.
Any tips?
Should I fly over, or around lake Michigan? My longest over water
flight was about 2 miles of the Mississippi so I didn't worry about that
much.
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject:
Re: ferry flight
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Steve,
Our little airport is probably a little south of your flight path, but
if not, Litchfield, IL. (3LF), would welcome you. We have a courtesy
car, about the cheapest 100LL in the midwest, less than a mile to all
the motels, restaurants, etc.
Definitely go around Lake Michigan!!
Perry Rhoads
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ferry flight
I'm ferrying a Taylorcraft L2B (almost a military variant of a PIET)
from Utah to Michigan this week. Since I'll be in the backyard of
several piet builders and low and slow fliers, I thought I'd solicit
your input on where to land and spend the night, or just fill up. I've
flown this route twice before when I flew to Brodhead 99'. My general
route will be following I-80 across the Midwest.
Any tips?
Should I fly over, or around lake Michigan? My longest over water
flight was about 2 miles of the Mississippi so I didn't worry about that
much.
Steve E
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
3/11/2007 9:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Lake Michigan is under 40 F surface temperature
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Hello Steve,
Personally I would fly around Lake Michigan seeing that is is hovering
around 37 F at the moment and given the information below
on hypothermia in cold water. Even if you survived a ditching you would
most likely be dead before any rescue could be made.
Have a fun trip !
Mike C.
http://www.coastwatch.msu.edu/michigan/m3.html
Cold water removes heat from the body 25 times faster than cold air.
About 50% of that heat loss occurs through the head. Physical activity
such as swimming, or other struggling in the water increases heat loss.
Survival time can be reduced to minutes. Strong swimmers have died
before swimming 100 yards in cold water. In water under 40 degrees F,
victims have died before swimming 100 feet.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject:
Re: ferry flight
Have fun Steve, that sounds like a great time. Next to my Piet, most
of my taildragger time is in an L2...great airplanes, I'd love to have
one.
Just my opinion, but I'd skirt the edge of lake Michigan instead of
going over. You'd need to cary a lot of extra equipment to make it a
safe flight over water...not worth the risk IMO.
Have fun! Ferrying my Piet to TX from Indiana was one of the best
trips of my life. If you were going to be this far south (I-40), I
would offer you hangar space and a place to stay overnight.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Steve Eldredge :
> I'm ferrying a Taylorcraft L2B (almost a military variant of a PIET)
> from Utah to Michigan this week. Since I'll be in the backyard of
> several piet builders and low and slow fliers, I thought I'd solicit
> your input on where to land and spend the night, or just fill up. I've
> flown this route twice before when I flew to Brodhead 99'. My general
> route will be following I-80 across the Midwest.
>
>
> Any tips?
>
>
> Should I fly over, or around lake Michigan? My longest over water
> flight was about 2 miles of the Mississippi so I didn't worry about that
> much.
>
>
> Steve E
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Lake Michigan is under 40 F surface temperature
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Eiiiyaahh!
I'm going around. -the water, that is....
Steve E
-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 2:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lake Michigan is under 40 F surface temperature
Hello Steve,
Personally I would fly around Lake Michigan seeing that is is hovering
around 37 F at the moment and given the information below
on hypothermia in cold water. Even if you survived a ditching you would
most likely be dead before any rescue could be made.
Have a fun trip !
Mike C.
http://www.coastwatch.msu.edu/michigan/m3.html
Cold water removes heat from the body 25 times faster than cold air.
About 50% of that heat loss occurs through the head. Physical activity
such as swimming, or other struggling in the water increases heat loss.
Survival time can be reduced to minutes. Strong swimmers have died
before swimming 100 yards in cold water. In water under 40 degrees F,
victims have died before swimming 100 feet.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ron Bell" <rbell(at)hpavet.com>
Subject:
ferry flight
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Fly over only if you have a cold water survival kit and EPIRB. Lake
Michigan is very cold and survival if you go down is probably less than an
hour. I know folks who fly over in single engine aircraft. They fly high
and fast. Low and slow? Go around. Always leave yourself an out, just in
case
Just my opinion,
Ron Bell
A Lurker
Cloaking device - Engage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Eldredge
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 3:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ferry flight
I'm ferrying a Taylorcraft L2B (almost a military variant of a PIET) from
Utah to Michigan this week. Since I'll be in the backyard of several piet
builders and low and slow fliers, I thought I'd solicit your input on where
to land and spend the night, or just fill up. I've flown this route twice
before when I flew to Brodhead 99'. My general route will be following
I-80 across the Midwest.
Any tips?
Should I fly over, or around lake Michigan? My longest over water flight
was about 2 miles of the Mississippi so I didn't worry about that much.
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
Re: ferry flight
I flew over about 45 mi. of Lake Michigan once in the middle of Summer. Went
up to 10,500 msl and still worried the whole time. Kept hearing all kinds
of weird engine noises. There was about 10 miles in the middle where I
couldn't glide back to land. Vowed I would never do it again. Not too long after
that a vent line came loose from the top of my fuel tank and siphoned all but
5 gallons out. YIKES!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
HOLY MOLEY! price of spruce
Hello Guys, If you are planning a big spruce order do it before the prices surpass
gold. Believe it or not Aircraft Spruce& Spec. is A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER. I
needed some 1/2 x 1/2 capstrip for compression struts on by bipe and A.S.S. was
$0.68 per foot, while Wicks was 1.60 per foot. I don't know what spiked Wick's
prices but I am sure they will all follow. Usually I order my wood from
Wicks but this time it would have cost me $40 more to do so. I hope the quality
is satisfactory, if not I'll bet i can do only right hand spins (once). Any
how just thought I would let you all know what I found out. I will try to remember
to give a report on my experiance with the "other guys". Also just a report
on NX92GB.. ready to assemble, just waiting on temps to warm up a little
so Dad's garage warms up.
Fly safe!
Shad
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject:
Scimitar prop
Hello Chuck, I hope this will help you. The message from Gary Gower remembered me this http://www.foxpapa.com/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=5 Much useful information. Look for "hlice a pas variable automatique". You will see nice prop pictures and laminated planks (just like you suggested). Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
Re: HOLY MOLEY! price of spruce
Shad,
A.S.S. has a "bargain bag of spruce" for cheap. It has many usable pieces
and some of them are as thick as 1-1/2" and as long as 5 ft. I made many a
part from that bag. You have to be able to cut it and it helps a whole lot if
you have a planer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Lake Winnebago
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I have a phobia about flying over water and when they wanted me to fly
over to New Holstein to do some pics for EAA's magazine
I opted to flying south around Lake Winnebago rather than flying the 10
miles across. I even had to talk myself into flying
the 2 miles overwater to South Bass Island in Lake Erie and that is only
2 miles north of the shoreline. (a photo of the airport
at South Bass Island is attached)
I couldn't imagine the coconuts that Charles Lindbergh had to fly over
the cold waters of the Atlantic ocean at night, with intermittent
icing conditions, no forward visibility, and working off of a very
restless nights sleep. Okay Corky, how about that trip you were
planning
overwater to Belize with ping pong balls stuffed in your wing ? Are
you going to install your overwater flotation kit on your new Blue Boy ?
Mike C.
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
re: Scimitar prop
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
something like this one??
________________________________________________________________________________
Well as per usual after posting the questions and receiving good answers i went
back through the notes DJ had and found a sheet labeled rigging reference.it
gives a plenty clear drawing of the cables and calls for 1/8" dia. I have been
away from home for nearly a week with about enough signal to receive mail and
check this list from time to time,but for some reason it will not let me send
out.so no telling when this will get posted,but thanks again to all who responded.Another
thing I intend to check on is how many and where at I need to install
inspection rings.i do not know yet if there is any diagram for that,but
even if not I can check with my friend at the local FBO and get the help there.I
have a lot of light duty inspection plates I bought years ago for some unknown
reason,but very few rings and I would like to find a better quality ring than
the cheap ones I had.best I remember it was very hard to get them to glue
to the fabric properly and lay down a smooth fabric re-enforcement over them.but
a lot of that may simply be lack of skill.i'll try to get some help this go-round.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100150#100150
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Rigging Reference
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Well as per usual after posting the questions and receiving good answers i went
back through the notes DJ had and found a sheet labeled rigging reference.it
gives a plenty clear drawing of the cables and calls for 1/8" dia. I have been
away from home for nearly a week with about enough signal to receive mail and
check this list from time to time,but for some reason it will not let me send
out.so no telling when this will get posted,but thanks again to all who responded.Another
thing I intend to check on is how many and where at I need to install
inspection rings.i do not know yet if there is any diagram for that,but
even if not I can check with my friend at the local FBO and get the help there.I
have a lot of light duty inspection plates I bought years ago for some unknown
reason,but very few rings and I would like to find a better quality ring than
the cheap ones I had.best I remember it was very hard to get them to glue
to the fabric properly and lay down a smooth fabric re-enforcement over them.but
a lot of that may simply be lack of skill.i'll try to get some help this go-round.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100151#100151
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: ferry flight
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Hey, what about all of those floating landing strips on Lake Michigan (
cargo ships) 6-900 ft strip cruising at 15+ kts.
Seriously Steve, this isn't the best time of year to go over any of the
great lakes at low alt. The lakes can make their own weather and
sometimes suddenly.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 2:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ferry flight
I'm ferrying a Taylorcraft L2B (almost a military variant of a PIET)
from Utah to Michigan this week. Since I'll be in the backyard of
several piet builders and low and slow fliers, I thought I'd solicit
your input on where to land and spend the night, or just fill up. I've
flown this route twice before when I flew to Brodhead 99'. My general
route will be following I-80 across the Midwest.
Any tips?
Should I fly over, or around lake Michigan? My longest over water
flight was about 2 miles of the Mississippi so I didn't worry about that
much.
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
ferry flight
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Steve:
As you round the bottom of Lake Michigan, there are a couple of good stops for
gas in NW Indiana. Starke Co. (OXI) has 100ll at $3.08 and Plymouth (C65) has
it for $2.95. I'm based at VPZ - Porter Co. Municipal in Valparaiso , IN. Starke
is 17 mi ESE from Porter Co. and Plymouth is about 32 mi E. Both airports
are convenient stops as you come around the bottom of the lake on your way to
Michigan. They both are nice airports with 24 hr. self-serve fuel. My home airport
is nice, with restaurants and hotels nearby, but the gas prices are high.
Mike C. usually stops at VPZ on his way back from Brodhead. If I weren't leaving
for South Carolina tomorrow on business, you could have stayed with me.
I just got back from a ski vacation in the Wasatch. I was going to contact you
before we left about getting together, but we had guests with us and just got
too busy.
How is the Stinson restoration coming along? I was just talking to a flying friend
in Michigan today about your project.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
Sent: 3/12/2007 2:51:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: ferry flight
Im ferrying a Taylorcraft L2B (almost a military variant of a PIET) from Utah to
Michigan this week. Since Ill be in the backyard of several piet builders and
low and slow fliers, I thought Id solicit your input on where to land and spend
the night, or just fill up. Ive flown this route twice before when I flew
to Brodhead 99. My general route will be following I-80 across the Midwest.
Any tips?
Should I fly over, or around lake Michigan? My longest over water flight was about
2 miles of the Mississippi so I didnt worry about that much.
Steve E
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
Re: ferry flight
Steve,
If you go the water route I'll be happy to sell you several cases of ping
pong balls that I may not use. I say MAY NOT. At a bargain price.
Corky, a Louisiana Pieter
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
Re: re: Scimitar prop
Hi Guys,
I took this picture at Brodhead last year. This is the exact prop I want to
carve for my Piet. God willing my plans are to make a prop carving machine.
I want to carve one half of this prop, then use it for a pattern. This is an
awesome prop.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
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email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 12, 2007
Subject:
I rolled my Piet...
What a beautiful day it was, I finally got my new nitrated crankshaft in a
few weeks back, installed it.
And after a few days of chasing oil leaks and test runs on the ground.
It was time to fly again.
So,
I rolled my Piet out of the Hangar and went flying.
Sorry no Loops or rolls just low and slow.
Hans
NX 15KV
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Subject:
Re: inspection cover locations
Oscar,
Where do you look for the accident investigation reports?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
searching for accident reports
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
You can query the NTSB accident report database here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
You can search by aircraft tail number, date, location, a bunch of different
things.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
From:
"Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Bottom motor mount fitting welds
Does anyone have any pictures of their bottom motor mount welds (where it
attaches to the fuselage fittings)? Particularly from any corvair-Piet
builders. Would like to see how the experts arrange their tube clusters.
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
motor mounts
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
One thing that concerned me was the welding of the bolt head to the mount fitting
on the GN-1 the plans called for.DJ said he had his done at a welding shop
and TIG welded on one flat.I have welded a lot of bolts as an oilfield welder
in the past with stick-low hydrogen rod or wire feed MIG process,and found that
the higher grade bolts are likely to get brittle and snap off from vibration.
but aparently there must be a lot of planes flying with this set up and maybe
aircraft bolts tolerate it.Any thoughts out there? boy what a ride if the engine
comes off!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100283#100283
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
when is brodhead again?
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
sorry guys, I know it's been mentioned, but when is brodhead this year?
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Subject:
Re: when is brodhead again?
Douwe,
Are you going to use the air filter on your Weber carb?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
when is brodhead again?
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
From:
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
It's always the Friday and Saturday before OSH. Since OSH is 7/23 -
7/29, that would mean the REAL fly-in is 7/20 - 7/21.
Jack Phillips
Already planning to be there, but first I gotta fly the Piet to Sun 'n'
Fun
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 12:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: when is brodhead again?
sorry guys, I know it's been mentioned, but when is brodhead this year?
Thanks
Douwe
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
lovely radiator
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Does anyone know what a Forrest Lovely radiator weighs?
Mine is installed, and I'd prefer not removing it. I'm looking at
aluminum ones to see if the weigh savings is substantial.
I suspect it is.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Hans or Shad,
could one of you tell me what prop you are running on your corvair? I am
getting ready to order one for mine and i am not sure what diameter and
pitch to go with
Thanks,
Robert Bush
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Subject:
Lovely radiator
I bought my engine and radiator from a guy who woke up to the
realization that the Ford wouldn't safely take him aloft. (he is a BIG
guy) The radiator wasn't a Lovely rad., but was a copper- brass radiator
that weighed 18 lbs. I decided that weight was out of the question so am
at least now going with a VW Golf diesel radiator like you see on a lot
of 912 Rotax ultra lights. Lowell Frank used one on his Funk B, and it
cooled fine. This radiator only weighs 4 lbs. On the negative side I had
to build a housing around it to support and mount it. I still need to
figure out a way to place a header-filler tank. It needs to be slightly
higher than the highest point in the cooling system. This could end up
looking silly. It is gaining weight, but still way under 18 lbs. I'm
going to a car swap meet in May where a radiator maker has a booth and I
may have him build me a more traditional Piet style radiator to solve
the header tank problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
Bottom motor mount fitting welds
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Rick,
Take a look at HYPERLINK
"http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com. Go to =93Building
Pictures=94 -> =93Page 5=94. You may find something of use.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2007 1:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bottom motor mount fitting welds
Does anyone have any pictures of their bottom motor mount welds (where
it
attaches to the fuselage fittings)? Particularly from any corvair-Piet
builders. Would like to see how the experts arrange their tube clusters.
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
--
12/03/2007
7:19 PM
--
12/03/2007
7:19 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject:
Found a probable engine, is a stock Cub prop a good match?
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Are many folks using the stock Cub prop for the A65 on the Piet? I found
a decent package and I can get the prop and accesories for a reasonable
price with the engine. I have not looked into props used on A65s with
the Piet. Any ideas?
-Scott Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: Found a probable engine, is a stock Cub prop a good
match?
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
A whole lot of us are running the A-65 with a 72x42 prop. They are a
very good combo.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Found a probable engine, is a stock Cub prop
a good match?
Are many folks using the stock Cub prop for the A65 on the Piet? I
found a decent package and I can get the prop and accesories for a
reasonable price with the engine. I have not looked into props used on
A65s with the Piet. Any ideas?
-Scott Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Found a probable engine, is a stock Cub prop a good
match?
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Scott,
A lot of Cubs with the A65 engine use a Sensenich 72CK42 propeller. This
combination also works for the Pietenpol. It may be possible to further
improve the Pietenpol's performance by using a custom propeller instead
of the Sensenich, but not by very much. I have used a Flottorp 72A48
wooden propeller on a Pietenpol with an A65, and it gave similar
performance to the Sensenich prop. A Flottorp 72A46 also works, but a
bit of speed is lost (better climb, though).
If one goes for an "off the shelf" propeller, in my experience this
Sensenich model is OK for a 65 hp Piet. Flottorp props used to be
manufactured by Univair, and it is difficult to find a good one these
days.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Subject:
Re: lovely radiator
The brass radiator I build weighs 18 pounds...which is 12 pounds lighter than
the brass cartridge core radiator used by Bernard. I have two original
radiators here and one weighs 30 pounds, and the other weighs 31, but I suspect
it
is full of lots of crud and iron deposits over the years. The one that weighs
30 pounds is a new-old stock one that came with an unbuilt kit that Bernard
sold in 1936 and I just purchased last month. The kit is nearly complete
including the engine and has never been started. It has struts, wheels, tires,
landing gear, wing fittings, fuse fittings, tail skid, and all the
rudder/elevator/aileron horns. The kit is just as shipped to the customer by Bernard
and is
quite a neat artifact.
I am currently in the process of building 6 brass radiators which will
be the last ones I build, I hope..!! The price of the cores used in this
radiator have TRIPLED in price in the last year. Hopefully, everyone will discover
a radiator that cools real well, and weighs 4 ounces, and cost less than 5
bucks.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Forrest "New" kit
Date:
Mar 13, 2007
Forrest,
WOW! what a find. Any chance you can take some pictures of the wheels,
struts, fittings, wood, landing gear, and the other parts of the kit? I
would love to add the pictures and a description of them to my web site.
To me it's like finding the Holy Grail. Finally, I could see how Mr.
Pietenpol wanted it done. You have a great treasure.
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: FTLovley(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lovely radiator
The brass radiator I build weighs 18 pounds...which is 12 pounds
lighter than the brass cartridge core radiator used by Bernard. I have
two original radiators here and one weighs 30 pounds, and the other
weighs 31, but I suspect it is full of lots of crud and iron deposits
over the years. The one that weighs 30 pounds is a new-old stock one
that came with an unbuilt kit that Bernard sold in 1936 and I just
purchased last month. The kit is nearly complete including the engine
and has never been started. It has struts, wheels, tires, landing gear,
wing fittings, fuse fittings, tail skid, and all the
rudder/elevator/aileron horns. The kit is just as shipped to the
customer by Bernard and is quite a neat artifact.
I am currently in the process of building 6 brass radiators which
will be the last ones I build, I hope..!! The price of the cores used
in this radiator have TRIPLED in price in the last year. Hopefully,
everyone will discover a radiator that cools real well, and weighs 4
ounces, and cost less than 5 bucks.
Forrest Lovley
Jordan MN
**************************************
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Subject:
Re: Forrest "New" kit
Chris...Remind me sometime this summer. I'll try to remember to take some
pictures of the kit parts...Forrest Lovley
**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Pics of the finished LG
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
From:
<harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I think ya have a bit more to do.I guess ya could run up and down the
street with her at this point with someone pushin ya eh!Just
kidding;-).Looks great!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schreiber
Sent: March 13, 2007 9:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pics of the finished LG
Other than brakes, cuffs and shock cords it is done. I will try to get
some more detailed pics up on my site sooner or later....
http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietlgdn1.jpghttp://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietlgdn.jpg
-Scott Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Re: lovely radiator
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Forrest L wrote:
" I am currently in the process of building 6 brass radiators which will be
the last ones I build, I hope..!! The price of the cores used in this
radiator have TRIPLED in price in the last year. Hopefully, everyone will
discover a radiator that cools real well, and weighs 4 ounces, and cost less
than 5 bucks"
Forrest:
the Mazda rotary folks have been using late model GM evaporator cores with
consistent success for some time. They are good for 300psi and the mazda dos
put some high demnd on them and they hold out. They use a pair of them in
parallel. Also some folks doing the Mazda conversion have used 1960s mustang
heater cores that have copper ends and may be more in keeping with the
classic look of the Piet. not to costly. I bet some creative piping and
perhaps a brass or copper sheet frame could make a pair of either of these
fit the look on the Ford powered Piet.
here is a source to the Mustang heater cores:
http://www.mustang-unl.com/Cat_keywords.asp?CatKey=EMUSTANG&Keywords=heater+core&x=0&y=0
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Re: lovely radiator
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
for an other alternative check out:
http://www.techwelding.com/
under products / cooling systems he does do work for aircraft
michael silvius
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Subject:
Re: lovely radiator
Hi Forrest,
Thanks for building these radiators for us. I am looking forward to getting
mine.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FTLovley(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Subject:
Re: lovely radiator
I'm saving the 42 pound one for Gene Ranbo...you will have to settle for the
39 pound one...:>)...FTL
**************************************
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Subject:
Re: lovely radiator
Forrest,
I need one of ones that are 4 oz. Ron ( Pietsrneat) told me he is OK with
the 39 pounder.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
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________________________________________________________________________________
can any of you guys out there running corvairs give me any suggestions on
what prop to use?
Thanks
Robert Bush
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Subject:
Re: props
Robert
I've had good service using a 69'' warp drive ground adjustable. Jim
************************************** AOL now offers free
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject:
props
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
Robert,
I did the same research over the Christmas period. General consensus was a
64x34 or 66x30 in wood props or a 68inch Warp Drive set at around 8 degrees
(30inch).
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RBush96589(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, 15 March 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: props
can any of you guys out there running corvairs give me any suggestions on
what prop to use?
Thanks
Robert Bush
_____
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at HYPERLINK "http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" \nAOL.com.
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
4:51 PM
--
4:51 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Subject:
props
Jim and Peter,
thanks for the feedback on prop size,i want to go with a wood prop and
had wanted to carve my own,but all I like finishing up is paint and a prop,so
I am just going to buy one.
Thanks,
Robert Bush
Lexington TN
************************************** AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: I rolled my Piet...
Hello Hans, Sorry, but are you flying a corvair? If so did you have problems with
it? Dad bought a crank from Clark's Corvair (nitrided) and we are waiting
for warmer weather to assemble his engine and get the Piet back in the "Wild
Blue Yonder". His original crank broke in flight and caused another trailer ride
to the hanger about 7 months ago. Oh well it was good dead stick landing
practice, Hopefully the last time.
Shad
HVandervoo(at)aol.com wrote:
What a beautiful day it was, I finally got my new nitrated crankshaft in
a few weeks back, installed it.
And after a few days of chasing oil leaks and test runs on the ground.
It was time to fly again.
So,
I rolled my Piet out of the Hangar and went flying.
Sorry no Loops or rolls just low and slow.
Hans
NX 15KV
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: props
Date:
Mar 14, 2007
Robert,
Lost your address and phone #. Could you pass it on again to me.
Gene in Camden
731-584-3443
----- Original Message -----
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: props
Jim and Peter,
thanks for the feedback on prop size,i want to go with a wood
prop and had wanted to carve my own,but all I like finishing up is paint
and a prop,so I am just going to buy one.
Thanks,
Robert Bush
Lexington TN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
Subject:
Re: I rolled my Piet...
shad,
Yes, Corvair powered.
Had my spare crankshaft over at William Wynne for the treatment.
It took a year to get it back but it was worth the wait.
Have been flying with my non-nitrated crackshaft during the wait.
Hans
************************************** AOL now offers free
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
navigation tools
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Has anyone found a cool website that has the following flight planning
feature? AirNav used to have it.
Enter Aircraft info, such as fuel, burn rate, type etc.
Enter preferred landing surface. Grass, pavement, water, etc
Enter starting point and destination.
The program results give you suggested airfields that have the amenities
you want, suggested fuel stops, etc.
I like the recommendation of adventure pilot, but it doesn't do this
from what I can tell.
Steve Eldredge
Brigham Young University
Chief Engineer Mass Storage and Servers
801-422-7130
steve(at)byu.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject:
Regarding radiators.....
I know of drawings shown in the BPANews. I'm not sure if those are Mr Lovley's
drawings. My question is what are my chances to get a copy? Remember, I live in
Argentina : )
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject:
=?iso-8859-1?q?Off topic, sorry =3F =A1!?
Spanish Keyboard : ) Yes, we did use those marks among others. Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Pregunt. Respond. Descubr.
Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
gus notti <gus_notti(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Four blade prop
Here's a big open ended question, what will a 4 bladed prop do compared to a 2
and or 3 blade? Less say bolted on the front of a VW 1835cc dual webbers getting
close to 90HP.
Thanks
---------------------------------
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
forward visibility
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Dan & group,
I was pleasantly surprised to see how little the radiator bothered me on
takeoff and landing in the Ford Piet. I actually have worse vis.
carrying
a broad-shouldered passenger. (that is why it is always preferable to
give rides to petite and slender females....)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
Subject:
Re: Regarding radiators.....& letters
In a message dated 3/15/2007 12:03:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
it took me 10 yrs to figure out the =F1 or =D1 (alt 0241 and alt 0465
repectively on the key pad)
Yep, and holding ALT while keying 167 makes the little 'degrees' zero. =BA
Chuck G.
************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone
.
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
sun n fun
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
Hey fellow pieters- I will be camping out with my cessna 140 on the
vintage camping area sunday thru thursday. Come by and lets talk
Pietenpols. My cessna is silver grey and has a rubber chicken hanging on
the prop. Squeeze it and it might wake up. See you there. Gardiner
Mason. P. S. I am from Atlanta and building the Piet in Lagrange, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
springtime flying
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
Sorry, Mike in Cuyahoga Falls (or wherever you are), Paul in New Hampshire,
and all the rest of you Pieters who are still iced out and snowed in. It
was 82 degrees when I left work this afternoon. I drove 18 minutes to get
to the hangar, opened the doors, the paint was nice and dry on my rudder
repair and paint touch-up so I applied the new vinyl tail numbers and 41CC
was ready to fly.
Started after first pulling five blades with fuel on, throttle cracked, and
mags off. Oil pressure came up, I got settled in, taxied to the active in a
leisurely fashion, oil temp was moving off the peg, runup was clean, and we
were off. We have just had 6 inches of rain in the last couple of days and
the wildflowers are starting to pop up through the green grass, which made
for a very pretty sight in the afternoon sun and clear sky.
I flew a circuit and saw that my friend and his wife who had just been
flying their Pelican had stopped what they were doing to come out to the
edge of the runway and watch the Piet make the circuit. I forgot that
nobody around here has ever seen it fly! Power back a little, stick
forward, and start my turn down to the runway. 90MPH on the nose, lined up
on the centerline but maybe 8-10 ft. off the deck, throttle at redline, and
I flew the length of the runway just so everybody would get a good look.
Actually, my real intent was to see what the x-wind was going to do to me so
I wouldn't botch my first public landing at San Geronimo!
Power back in, nose up to climb at 55 for another circuit and one or two
more people were out on the porches of their houses watching me climb to
pattern altitude. Lew Mason, Dave Baker, other guys who live on the
airfield and who have seen me working on the plane innumerable Saturdays but
have never seen it fly. Not even seen it with the wings on!
One more 90MPH pass, I have the winds gauged pretty good, pull it up for my
last downwind, set up for landing, and pretty much ace it by holding about
1700 RPM and watching the drift from the x-wind. I kept it straight and got
it stopped right at the turnoff to our hangar, taxied in, parked it after
logging 0.3 hrs., and got home in time to have some good Italian food. This
is what it is all about! This is how to end your workday, Pieters! I have
to steal Walt's famous line... "Ain't life grand?!" And from a guy over on
the KRNet, another famous line: "There is a time for building and a time for
flying, and the time for building is OVER!"
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
Presents today.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Regarding radiators.....& letters
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Now that is useful!!!
In Spanish Fork Utah right now it is 46 (hey it didn't work....)alt 167
Rats.
Steve Eldredge
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Regarding radiators.....& letters
In a message dated 3/15/2007 12:03:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
it took me 10 yrs to figure out the =F1 or =D1 (alt 0241 and alt
0465 repectively on the key pad)
Yep, and holding ALT while keying 167 makes the little 'degrees' zero.
=BA
Chuck G.
________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339> .
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
my route east in the Taylorcraft L2B
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
"Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Tomorrow night I'll be looking for a place to lay my head near Lexington
or Kearny NE. (if I make good time)
Another XCountry adventure begins!
SteveE
Style: Offset
Classic
Waypoints
Route
ALT
Dist
Fuel
GS
Time Off
SPANISH FORK SPRINGVILLE [U77]
Wind
Dir
Speed
MC
Leg
Leg
Est
ETE
ETA
Total
Total
Act
ATE
ATA
VERNAL [VEL]
5,000
100.4
6
75
1:20
0=B0
0
67=B0
100.4
6
RAWLINS MUNI HARVEY FLD [RWL]
5,000
132.9
8
75
1:46
?=B0
?
40=B0
233.3
14
LARAMIE RGNL [LAR]
5,000
74.8
4.5
75
1:00
?=B0
?
102=B0
308.1
18.5
KIMBALL MUNI ROBERT E ARRAJ FLD [IBM]
5,000
90.7
5.4
75
1:13
190=B0
9
84=B0
398.8
23.9
SEARLE FLD [OGA]
5,000
86.6
5.1
76
1:08
190=B0
9
83=B0
485.4
29.1
HASTINGS MUNI [HSI]
5,000
155.2
8.3
84
1:51
330=B0
15
93=B0
640.6
37.4
JIM KELLY FLD [LXN]
5,000
62.5
4.4
64
0:59
330=B0
15
275=B0
703.1
41.8
KEARNEY MUNI [EAR]
5,000
35.3
1.9
83
0:25
330=B0
15
90=B0
738.4
43.7
CRETE MUNI [CEK]
5,000
95.3
5.2
82
1:10
330=B0
15
87=B0
833.7
48.9
SHENANDOAH MUNI [SDA]
5,000
69.4
4.1
76
0:55
340=B0
31
78=B0
903.1
53
CENTERVILLE MUNI [TVK]
5,000
114.7
5.7
90
1:16
320=B0
28
88=B0
1017.8
58.8
KEOKUK MUNI [EOK]
5,000
68.7
3.6
85
0:48
340=B0
26
99=B0
1086.5
62.4
ILLINOIS VALLEY RGNL [VYS]
5,000
116.5
7.8
67
1:44
340=B0
26
62=B0
1203
70.2
BOLINGBROOKS CLOW INTL [1C5]
5,000
50.5
2.8
81
0:37
310=B0
17
67=B0
1253.5
73
LANSING MUNI [IGQ]
5,000
28.7
1.4
91
0:19
310=B0
17
112=B0
1282.2
74.4
GRIFFITH MERRILLVILLE [05C]
5,000
5.9
0.3
89
0:04
310=B0
17
102=B0
1288.1
74.7
HOBART SKY RANCH [3HO]
5,000
6.5
0.4
82
0:05
310=B0
17
75=B0
1294.6
75.1
MICHIGAN CITY MUNI [MGC]
5,000
21.8
1.2
81
0:16
310=B0
17
69=B0
1316.4
76.3
SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN RGNL [BEH]
5,000
31
2
71
0:26
310=B0
17
38=B0
1347.4
78.3
PLAINWELL MUNI [61D]
5,000
40.3
2.5
72
0:34
120=B0
5
64=B0
1387.7
80.8
HASTINGS [9D9]
5,000
17.8
1.1
73
0:15
120=B0
5
54=B0
1405.5
81.9
IONIA CO [Y70]
5,000
20.7
1.3
74
0:17
120=B0
5
43=B0
1426.2
83.1
Great circle distance: 1205.1 nm.
Total time:
18:29
NOTE: Fuel total is approximate and does not include necessary reserves.
Base time for winds aloft for this route is 03/15/2007 04:39
UTC
Style: Offset
Classic
Location
AWY
WIND
KTS
CRS
HDG
MAG
C&H
TAS
GS
FUEL
Total
DIST
Total
TIME
Total
SPANISH FORK SPRINGVILLE [U77]
APT to APT
0=B0
0
79=B0
79=B0
67=B0
67=B0
75
75
6
6
100.4 nm
100.4 nm
1:20
1:20
VERNAL [VEL]
APT to APT
?=B0
?
51=B0
?
40=B0
?
75
75
8
14
132.9 nm
233.3 nm
1:46
3:07
RAWLINS MUNI HARVEY FLD [RWL]
APT to APT
?=B0
?
113=B0
?
102=B0
?
75
75
4.5
18.5
74.8 nm
308.1 nm
1:00
4:06
LARAMIE RGNL [LAR]
APT to APT
190=B0
9
94=B0
101=B0
84=B0
91=B0
75
75
5.4
23.9
90.7 nm
398.8 nm
1:13
5:19
KIMBALL MUNI ROBERT E ARRAJ FLD [IBM]
APT to APT
190=B0
9
92=B0
99=B0
83=B0
90=B0
75
76
5.1
29.1
86.6 nm
485.4 nm
1:08
6:27
SEARLE FLD [OGA]
APT to APT
330=B0
15
100=B0
92=B0
93=B0
84=B0
75
84
8.3
37.4
155.2 nm
640.6 nm
1:51
8:18
HASTINGS MUNI [HSI]
APT to APT
330=B0
15
281=B0
289=B0
275=B0
284=B0
75
64
4.4
41.8
62.5 nm
703.1 nm
0:59
9:17
JIM KELLY FLD [LXN]
APT to APT
330=B0
15
96=B0
87=B0
90=B0
80=B0
75
83
1.9
43.7
35.3 nm
738.4 nm
0:25
9:42
KEARNEY MUNI [EAR]
APT to APT
330=B0
15
93=B0
84=B0
87=B0
78=B0
75
82
5.2
48.9
95.3 nm
833.7 nm
1:10
10:52
CRETE MUNI [CEK]
APT to APT
340=B0
31
83=B0
59=B0
78=B0
55=B0
75
76
4.1
53
69.4 nm
903.1 nm
0:55
11:47
SHENANDOAH MUNI [SDA]
APT to APT
320=B0
28
91=B0
75=B0
88=B0
72=B0
75
90
5.7
58.8
114.7 nm
1017.8 nm
1:16
13:03
CENTERVILLE MUNI [TVK]
APT to APT
340=B0
26
101=B0
83=B0
99=B0
82=B0
75
85
3.6
62.4
68.7 nm
1086.5 nm
0:48
13:52
KEOKUK MUNI [EOK]
APT to APT
340=B0
26
62=B0
42=B0
62=B0
42=B0
75
67
7.8
70.2
116.5 nm
1203 nm
1:44
15:36
ILLINOIS VALLEY RGNL [VYS]
APT to APT
310=B0
17
66=B0
54=B0
67=B0
56=B0
75
81
2.8
73
50.5 nm
1253.5 nm
0:37
16:14
BOLINGBROOKS CLOW INTL [1C5]
APT to APT
310=B0
17
109=B0
105=B0
112=B0
108=B0
75
91
1.4
74.4
28.7 nm
1282.2 nm
0:19
16:32
LANSING MUNI [IGQ]
APT to APT
310=B0
17
99=B0
92=B0
102=B0
95=B0
75
89
0.3
74.7
5.9 nm
1288.1 nm
0:04
16:36
GRIFFITH MERRILLVILLE [05C]
APT to APT
310=B0
17
71=B0
60=B0
75=B0
64=B0
75
82
0.4
75.1
6.5 nm
1294.6 nm
0:05
16:41
HOBART SKY RANCH [3HO]
APT to APT
310=B0
17
66=B0
54=B0
69=B0
57=B0
75
81
1.2
76.3
21.8 nm
1316.4 nm
0:16
16:57
MICHIGAN CITY MUNI [MGC]
APT to APT
310=B0
17
34=B0
21=B0
38=B0
25=B0
75
71
2
78.3
31 nm
1347.4 nm
0:26
17:24
SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN RGNL [BEH]
APT to APT
120=B0
5
59=B0
63=B0
64=B0
67=B0
75
72
2.5
80.8
40.3 nm
1387.7 nm
0:34
17:57
PLAINWELL MUNI [61D]
APT to APT
120=B0
5
49=B0
52=B0
54=B0
57=B0
75
73
1.1
81.9
17.8 nm
1405.5 nm
0:15
18:12
HASTINGS [9D9]
APT to APT
120=B0
5
37=B0
41=B0
43=B0
47=B0
75
74
1.3
83.1
20.7 nm
1426.2 nm
0:17
18:29
IONIA CO [Y70]
Great circle distance: 1205.1 nm.
NOTE: Fuel total is approximate and does not include necessary reserves.
Base time for winds aloft for this route is 03/15/2007 04:39
UTC
Return to Pro Flight Planner
<http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/advroute/index.cfm?rt=indm4oi5x>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: Regarding radiators.....& letters
hmmmm, Alt 248 as well.
At one time, before one of those computer explosions
that seem to happen occassionaly I had a link to a
site with a full dictionary of these things. Anyone have
such a link?
Workin on the ole center section,
Clif
it took me 10 yrs to figure out the =F1 or =D1 (alt 0241 and alt
0465 repectively on the key pad)
Yep, and holding ALT while keying 167 makes the little 'degrees' zero.
=BA
Chuck G.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 15, 2007
From:
Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: Regarding radiators.....& letters
You have to use the right hand number pad.
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Eldredge
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 8:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Regarding radiators.....& letters
Now that is useful!!!
In Spanish Fork Utah right now it is 46 (hey it didn't work..)alt 167
Rats.
Steve Eldredge
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 3:20 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Regarding radiators.....& letters
In a message dated 3/15/2007 12:03:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
it took me 10 yrs to figure out the =F1 or =D1 (alt 0241 and alt
0465 repectively on the key pad)
Yep, and holding ALT while keying 167 makes the little 'degrees' zero.
=BA
Chuck G.
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3/15/2007 11:27 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
sun n fun
Date:
Mar 16, 2007
From:
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I'll look for you Gardiner. I should have my Pietenpol there, NX899JP,
"Icarus Plummet". I plan to arrive Monday morning and depart Thursday
morning.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner
Mason
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: sun n fun
Hey fellow pieters- I will be camping out with my cessna 140 on the
vintage camping area sunday thru thursday. Come by and lets talk
Pietenpols. My cessna is silver grey and has a rubber chicken hanging on
the prop. Squeeze it and it might wake up. See you there. Gardiner
Mason. P. S. I am from Atlanta and building the Piet in Lagrange, Ga.
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
springtime flying
Date:
Mar 16, 2007
From:
"Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Well written, Oscar. You've summed it up pretty well. Now that
Daylight Savings time has arrived, work on the RV-10 is going to suffer.
I flew the Pietenpol this weekend and will start flying it more in the
evenings after work, now that there is enough daylight and warm enough
temperatures to enjoy it.
Amazing how many people at the airport will stop what they are doing to
watch a Pietenpol take off or land.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: springtime flying
Sorry, Mike in Cuyahoga Falls (or wherever you are), Paul in New
Hampshire,
and all the rest of you Pieters who are still iced out and snowed in.
It
was 82 degrees when I left work this afternoon. I drove 18 minutes to
get
to the hangar, opened the doors, the paint was nice and dry on my rudder
repair and paint touch-up so I applied the new vinyl tail numbers and
41CC
was ready to fly.
Started after first pulling five blades with fuel on, throttle cracked,
and
mags off. Oil pressure came up, I got settled in, taxied to the active
in a
leisurely fashion, oil temp was moving off the peg, runup was clean, and
we
were off. We have just had 6 inches of rain in the last couple of days
and
the wildflowers are starting to pop up through the green grass, which
made
for a very pretty sight in the afternoon sun and clear sky.
I flew a circuit and saw that my friend and his wife who had just been
flying their Pelican had stopped what they were doing to come out to the
edge of the runway and watch the Piet make the circuit. I forgot that
nobody around here has ever seen it fly! Power back a little, stick
forward, and start my turn down to the runway. 90MPH on the nose, lined
up
on the centerline but maybe 8-10 ft. off the deck, throttle at redline,
and
I flew the length of the runway just so everybody would get a good look.
Actually, my real intent was to see what the x-wind was going to do to
me so
I wouldn't botch my first public landing at San Geronimo!
Power back in, nose up to climb at 55 for another circuit and one or two
more people were out on the porches of their houses watching me climb to
pattern altitude. Lew Mason, Dave Baker, other guys who live on the
airfield and who have seen me working on the plane innumerable Saturdays
but
have never seen it fly. Not even seen it with the wings on!
One more 90MPH pass, I have the winds gauged pretty good, pull it up for
my
last downwind, set up for landing, and pretty much ace it by holding
about
1700 RPM and watching the drift from the x-wind. I kept it straight and
got
it stopped right at the turnoff to our hangar, taxied in, parked it
after
logging 0.3 hrs., and got home in time to have some good Italian food.
This
is what it is all about! This is how to end your workday, Pieters! I
have
to steal Walt's famous line... "Ain't life grand?!" And from a guy over
on
the KRNet, another famous line: "There is a time for building and a time
for
flying, and the time for building is OVER!"
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
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7001
_________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
TBYH(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 16, 2007
Subject:
3-, 4- and 5-bladed props
One of the last propellers that Alvin Schubert tried on his successful
VW-powered "Fledermaus" was a five-bladed prop that he carved. I forget what
displacement Alvin's engine was, but it was just as successful with the five-blade
as
with a two-blade prop. Alvin was a very talented propeller maker -- his book
"How I Carve Propellers" was never published but you can see it in pdf format
at: _http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/how_i_make_wood_propellers%203.htm_
(http://www.flyingflea.org/docs/how_i_make_wood_propellers%203.htm) It is
definitely worth reading if only just for a better understanding of RPM, pitch,
diameter and airspeed.
BTW, Alvin was the guy who carved the propeller for Bernard Pietenpol's
Corvair-powered ship. I believe Bernard said that it was the best propeller he
ever
flew behind. (I'm also kind of proud that I'm building my Piet from the plans
that I got at Alvin's estate sale when he passed away several years ago.
Apparently Alvin was contemplating building a Piet at some point but never quite
got around to it...)
Anyway --- spring is on the way here in the Upper Mississippi regions...the
ice is breaking up!
Happy St. Paddy's day and take it easy on the green beer!
Best regards to all!
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Regarding radiators.....& letters
Date:
Mar 16, 2007
From:
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Here's a chart of special characters (attachment). The table came from
this website:
http://asciitable.com/
Another one that I use, but isn't in the table is the symbol for
diameter =D8, which you get if you hold ALT and enter 0216 (with the
right number keypad).
Bill C
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
wing inspection cover locations
Date:
Mar 16, 2007
A couple of folks asked about locations for inspection covers on the wings.
I took some photos of the cover locations on 41CC and uploaded them here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/inspection.html
I've noted that Corky provided removable links in the aileron control cables
that made removal and reattachment of the wings a snap. One set of covers
provides access to those links, while the link in the aileron
interconnection cable is accessed through an opening in the backside of the
aft spar in the centersection of the wing with the lift-up flop removed or
flipped up.
The last picture on that page also shows the new tail numbers on the
airplane.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi
I am ready to bore and tap the hole for the vent in my aluminum Thomas
cylinder head for the Ford A. What is the normal diameter used? I
don't want it to be bigger than necessary. Also, I can't figure out any
practical hold down system for the fuel tank in the center section that
wouldn't cause protrusions under the fabric on top of the wing. Is it
OK to just cover it with polyfiber and consider it done?
Don
Minnesott Beach NC
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
steam vent
Date:
Mar 16, 2007
Hi Don
Could you use some nylon "banding" to secure it. It seems a lot to ask of
the fabric. We use to secure boat fuel tanks to their platforms using this
method. It went around the tank and the platform and had a neat little wire
clip that enabled it to hold the tension once you had tightened it.
The strap was very stroh and measured about 3/4" wide and a 1/32" thick.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Steve in Maine
>From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)capital.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: steam vent
>Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:00:34 -0400
>
>Hi
>I am ready to bore and tap the hole for the vent in my aluminum Thomas
>cylinder head for the Ford A. What is the normal diameter used? I don't
>want it to be bigger than necessary. Also, I can't figure out any
>practical hold down system for the fuel tank in the center section that
>wouldn't cause protrusions under the fabric on top of the wing. Is it OK
>to just cover it with polyfiber and consider it done?
>Don
>Minnesott Beach NC
_________________________________________________________________
Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate
new payment
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 17, 2007
From:
"Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: sun n fun
You guys are leaving SNF too early! I will be there on Fri and Sat. Would
have liked to come by and talked to you. Will see you at Broadhead if you
make it up there.
Rick
On 3/16/07, Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
> I'll look for you Gardiner. I should have my Pietenpol there, NX899JP,
> "Icarus Plummet". I plan to arrive Monday morning and depart Thursday
> morning.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Gardiner Mason
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:41 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: sun n fun
>
>
> Hey fellow pieters- I will be camping out with my cessna 140 on the
> vintage camping area sunday thru thursday. Come by and lets talk Pietenpols.
> My cessna is silver grey and has a rubber chicken hanging on the prop.
> Squeeze it and it might wake up. See you there. Gardiner Mason. P. S. I am
> from Atlanta and building the Piet in Lagrange, Ga.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> _________________________________________________
>
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"William Czupryna" <tarrevir(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
purchasing wood
Date:
Mar 17, 2007
New guy here.Been lurking in the shadows awhile.Received my plans and
gearing up to start building.What is the best way to order the spruce for my
fuselage?I have all the wood working tools needed,would it be best to order
1"x6" spar material and rip it to size?Thanks for any help!Willie
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get
intro-rate 4.625%*
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: purchasing wood
Date:
Mar 17, 2007
Willie
What area of the country are you in. There are a number of good sources.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Czupryna" <tarrevir(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: purchasing wood
>
>
> New guy here.Been lurking in the shadows awhile.Received my plans and
> gearing up to start building.What is the best way to order the spruce for
> my fuselage?I have all the wood working tools needed,would it be best to
> order 1"x6" spar material and rip it to size?Thanks for any help!Willie
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get
> intro-rate 4.625%*
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"William Czupryna" <tarrevir(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE:purchasing spruce
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
I'm in east Texas.My original intent was to buy a spruce kit from as&s but
in light of what I have read lately I'm probably ordering from Wicks.I was
just wondered if I gain anything cutting to final size myself.Willie
_________________________________________________________________
Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN
Presents today.
http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: purchasing spruce
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 17, 2007
of course your results may vary,but I believe you will find that the bigger dimension
planks that are clear of defects and meet aircraft specs will be very expensive
and probably you will be much more likely to get smaller dimensions than
buying wide planks and ripping them up.i know some folks substitute Fir for
their projects,but I guess if I was starting another project I'd try to get
a wood kit from somebody like that myself as opposed to trying to grade wood myself.the
stuf is expensive but to spend the years of labor and not know that
I had used the best wood would bother me.raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101335#101335
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: purchasing spruce
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
Wick's and AS&S both supply a nice product. I prefer Wick's. It is very nice
to get wood that is cut and planed to exactly ordered dimensions. The price is
no more when you order the exact dimensions. If you were looking to get spar
and longeron material out of a 1 X 6 that would be ok, but for the same or less
money you could order 1 X 1 longerons and 1 X 4 3/4 spars. You would also
probably have less wait time. Larger pieces always have a longer wait time.
You'll have lots of other types of cutting and fitting to do other than ripping
:) ! Sitka Spruce, as we all know, is very expensive, I prefer to have mine
as whole pieces and not as saw dust on the floor from ripping! So I'm not sure,
am I "less filling" or "more taste" or is it "less sawdust/more wood"?
Oh well, build away Pieters!!!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101356#101356
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
raymondolson(at)comcast.net
Subject:
New prospectuve builder
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
Hi to all,
My name is Ray Olson and I live in Marietta, Ga (20miles north of Atlanta).
I sold my Sonex last Dec. It was mostly complete, needing only some engine
tuning, several other minor items and an airworthiness inspection. I am not
a pilot and that may not change.
I am finding that after building an airplane, building bird houses and other such
projects just doesn't cut it. I monitored the Pietenpol list before I started my
Sonex
and I have been back on the list for about two months. I think a Pietenpol would
certainly be a building challenge and would teach me a whole lot about building
airplanes that I did not encounter with the Sonex. As like the usual newbie,
I have some questions and would appreciate any input the members of the list
would care to make.
1. Since the construction of a Pietenpol is pretty labor intensive, can a builder
construct a quality airframe and sell it it for at least the value of the materials
used?
(remember I am not a pilot).
2. Is there a proven source of spruce, other than Wicks and AS&S. I have done
business with both and have no complaints. Janet Shumaker at Wicks was very good.
3. I would like to attend Brodhead this year with my Grandson. I understand the
gathering at Brodhead is 20 and 21 July (Fri and Sat). Is there a source of information
about events during these two days.
4. I understand that the Grega plans are no longer available. I actually have
a set of
his original plans ($25.00). Plan number 2459. So a set from the Pietenpol family
is in order. However, is the GN-1 a "better" version? I sure hope this does not
start
a fight. What other books or written material on Pietenpol construction is appropriate.
(I have or will get the EAA materials on building wooden airplanes).
Thanks to all.
Hi to all,
My name is Ray Olson and I live in Marietta, Ga (20miles north of Atlanta).
I sold my Sonex last Dec. It was mostly complete, needing only some engine
tuning, several other minor items and an airworthiness inspection. I am not
a pilot and that may not change.
I am finding that after building an airplane, building bird houses and other such
projects just doesn't cut it. I monitored the Pietenpol list before I started
my Sonex
and I have been back on the list for about two months. I think a Pietenpol
would
certainly be a building challenge and would teach me a whole lot about building
airplanes that I did not encounter with the Sonex. As like the usual
newbie,
I have some questions and would appreciate any input the members of the list
would care to make.
1. Since the construction of a Pietenpol is pretty labor intensive, can a
builder
construct a quality airframe and sell it it for at least the value of the
materials used?
(remember I am not a pilot).
2. Is there a proven source of spruce, other than Wicks and AS&S. I have
done
business with both and have no complaints. Janet Shumaker at Wicks was very
good.
3. I would like to attend Brodhead this year with my Grandson. I understand
the
gathering at Brodhead is 20 and 21 July (Fri and Sat). Is there a source of
information
about events during these two days.
4. I understand that the Grega plans are no longer available. I actually have
a set of
his original plans ($25.00). Plan number 2459. So a set from the Pietenpol
family
is in order. However, is the GN-1 a "better" version? I sure hope this does
not start
a fight. What other books or written material on Pietenpol construction
is appropriate.
(I have or will get the EAA materials on building wooden airplanes).
Hello Ray, The Piet is a very easy airplane to fly. I can't speak for the Grega
but I am sure it would be at least as easy to fly. If you want to know my oppinion
I would say don't worry about what the "Purist" say or think build what
YOU want and enjoy. You can probably get what you have in materials out of it.
Shad
---------------------------------
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in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
Subject:
The list
Nothing has been posted lately. Is there something wrong with the list?
do not archive
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Subject:
New prospectuve builder
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
From:
<harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
The Grega/Pietenpol that I fly is very much like my N3 Pup which is
supposed to be the same as a J3.They both handle very much the same
except that the Grega/Piet is much more powerful.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: March 18, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New prospectuve builder
Hello Ray, The Piet is a very easy airplane to fly. I can't speak for
the Grega but I am sure it would be at least as easy to fly. If you want
to know my oppinion I would say don't worry about what the "Purist" say
or think build what YOU want and enjoy. You can probably get what you
have in materials out of it.
Shad
________________________________
Food fight?
<http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NT
E
wOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=ask&
s
id=396545367> Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
<http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NT
E
wOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=ask&
s
id=396545367>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
purchasing spruce
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
As we have noted here in the past, good clear douglas fir is an
acceptable substitute for sitka. I have just finished cutting up all
the stock for a new fuselage for the project we will build at Sun n Fun.
( more on that later ) I bought clear 1/4 sawn fir in 1x8x16' lenghts
at $1.29 per foot. Compare that to sitka. Huge savings for a bit
heavier wood, but stronger, if you don't mind the painful slivers.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject:
purchasing spruce
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
I just received my order of DF.
Rough cut 50x100mm x 5.4m lengths @ $17.50 per metre.
Thats quite a lot more than you pay in the States, but thats the
price of building in Australia.
Still quite a lot cheaper than Spruce!
JohnW
Perth, Western Australia
---- Original Message ----
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: purchasing spruce
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:49:04 -0500
>As we have noted here in the past, good clear douglas fir is an
>acceptable substitute for sitka. I have just finished cutting up all
>the stock for a new fuselage for the project we will build at Sun n
>Fun. ( more on that later ) I bought clear 1/4 sawn fir in 1x8x16'
>lenghts at $1.29 per foot. Compare that to sitka. Huge savings for
>a bit heavier wood, but stronger, if you don't mind the painful
>slivers.
>Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
purchacing spruce
Date:
Mar 18, 2007
A correction to my post on douglas fir price. The $1.29 price was for
some 1x3 stock I bought. 1x8x16' was $4.68 per ft. That is finished
sanded.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
tail brace wires
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
I am in the process of rigging the tail surfaces to see what I need before covering
and have a set of streamlined tailbrace wires to install.they are Mcwhyte
if it makes any difference.I have looked for reference in A/S catalog but not
found the minimum thread make-up length-meaning how far into the end it needs
to be.does it need to be in as far as the small hole drilled through the rod
end?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101593#101593
________________________________________________________________________________
YES! that hole is called an "Inspection Hole" if you can stick a piece of wire
etc. compleatly through, or see light through it you DON"T have it threaded in
enough. By the way, is this a Pietenpol your building? If so just currious
why the MacWhite tie rods? Cables are much much cheaper. I have to buy some
tie rods for my bipe and they are EXTREAMLY expensive. By the way one word of
CAUTION: Keep an very close eye on the lower wires Especialy if they are streamlined.
Stones will knick the front edge if the tie rod and can cause sudden
failure due to the Stress Riser from the knick. I think this is why Piper or
someone issued a service bullitin or an A.D. for tail tie rods. Round would
probably be a better chioce over the streamlined tie rods. I have a few places
you can check if interested.
Shad
skellytownflyer wrote:
I am in the process of rigging the tail surfaces to see what I need before covering
and have a set of streamlined tailbrace wires to install.they are Mcwhyte
if it makes any difference.I have looked for reference in A/S catalog but not
found the minimum thread make-up length-meaning how far into the end it needs
to be.does it need to be in as far as the small hole drilled through the rod
end?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101593#101593
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
spruce wood
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
From:
"Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
I too have been very happy with McCormick's, but keep in mind it is
tough to check the quality of rough sawn wood. Last year I purchased a
piece 18' long for my longerons...which turned out to be bad wood.
Grain was straight, it sure looked ok, but after planning and ripping it
warped so bad I will be lucky to use for anything over a foot long.
Just a $200.00 mistake and no fault of McCormick's.
Jack Textor
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject:
Re: tail brace wires
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
he's using streamline wires because that's what came with it when I sold
the project to him. I got them for free years ago. They are only use
on top. Lower wires are 1/8" cables.
DJ Vegh
veghdesign.com
Mesa, AZ
602.743.5768
"Where there's a will there's a Vegh"
-
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires
YES! that hole is called an "Inspection Hole" if you can stick a
piece of wire etc. compleatly through, or see light through it you DON"T
have it threaded in enough. By the way, is this a Pietenpol your
building? If so just currious why the MacWhite tie rods? Cables are
much much cheaper. I have to buy some tie rods for my bipe and they are
EXTREAMLY expensive. By the way one word of CAUTION: Keep an very
close eye on the lower wires Especialy if they are streamlined. Stones
will knick the front edge if the tie rod and can cause sudden failure
due to the Stress Riser from the knick. I think this is why Piper or
someone issued a service bullitin or an A.D. for tail tie rods. Round
would probably be a better chioce over the streamlined tie rods. I have
a few places you can check if interested.
Shad
skellytownflyer wrote:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
tail brace wires
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
From:
<harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I have included a page from the GN-1 drawings that I received with the
aircraft and this is the way it was built from the drawing. If Grega
engineered it wrong then I shall check with my AME to see what he would
do. If another bolt is needed then I shall indeed install it as per your
suggestion. From what I see in my drawings, it would appear that the top
and bottom brackets are connected with the same bolt and should work
together opposing one another so as no to fail under load conditions. In
the bracket on the vertical stab, the AME did suggest putting another
bolt in as you can see but never said anything about the brackets at the
horizontal stab. I have not noticed any wood crushing as yet but it will
certainly be one of many places I shall closely inspect in the spring
when I get down to her again. Thanks for your observations, I shall
certainly look into this.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: March 19, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires
Just an observation:
I don't know if the lower stabilizer fittings shown in Harvey's picture
are as per the GN-1 drawings, but, from an engineering standpoint, they
do not appear to be as well thought out as the original Pietenpol
fittings. I've attached a small clip from the 1933 drawings that shows
two bolts (rivets, actually) fastening the bracket to the stabilizer. As
can be seen in Harvey's picture, using only one fastener, at a distance
from the bend in the bracket, doesn't provide sufficient holding power
to resist the eccentric loading imposed by the cable. The result is that
the bracket lifts from the stab - possibly crushing some wood fibers
outboard of the fastener.
Bill C
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: tail brace wires
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
Got the information I needed again! it's the witness hole-now I remember the terminology,and
yes that makes perfect sense and I remember knowing it at one time.thanks.These
are as DJ said flying wires-not turnbuckles.thanks guys.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101689#101689
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
Subject:
Re: spruce wood
Just a little tip when looking for wood: Bring a sanding block with you to
smooth the ends of the boards to get a better idea of grain lines per inch and
slope. Sometimes it's very hard to tell otherwise.
Ron
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
tail brace wires
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
From:
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Harvey,
Just to be clear, your fittings are probably fine as they are. I have
never seen a set of Grega drawings. But, since that's how Mr. Grega drew
them, I would assume that's how most people would build them, if working
from those plans - and there are plenty of GN-1s flying around. I had
never noticed the difference before, and it just seemed odd to me that
the fittings were pulling away from the stabilizer in your photo. I
would imagine that must be a pretty common phenomenon among GN-1s. And
it is also what I would expect the fitting to do, based on the way it is
designed, given the direction of the applied force (through the cable),
the hole location, and the various lever arms and resulting applied
moments.
Although I am an engineer, I do not profess to have any aircraft design
abilities - I based my comments solely on my sense of "that don't look
quite right", as opposed to any scientific analysis. Strength-wise, in
order for the fastening to fail, you would have to either shear off the
bolt passing through your stab, or the bolt would have to rip through
the spar of the stab (both unlikely).
Having said that, it probably wouldn't hurt to have your AME give it a
look, since he did recommend adding a second fastener at the upper
connection - and that wasn't shown in the Grega drawings either.
Bill C
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
From:
"walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: steam vent
Don,
Again, with advise from my mentor, I used simple steel binding straps
like are used to bind something to a pallet. Tough stuff, and it is
"blued" already, so it won't rust. Just shaped it and bent it to make
simple tightening devises. With felt stripping underneath.
Then got a piece of alum sheet from Home Depot and cut to fit on top
for a smooth surface
walt evans
NX140DL
"Put your wealth in knowledge, and no one can ever take it from you"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Lane
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: steam vent
Hi
I am ready to bore and tap the hole for the vent in my aluminum Thomas
cylinder head for the Ford A. What is the normal diameter used? I
don't want it to be bigger than necessary. Also, I can't figure out any
practical hold down system for the fuel tank in the center section that
wouldn't cause protrusions under the fabric on top of the wing. Is it
OK to just cover it with polyfiber and consider it done?
Don
Minnesott Beach NC
________________________________________________________________________________
Harvey,
Bill Church is correct when he says the bend in the fitting is in the
wrong place. Good engineering practice would have placed the bend as
close to the bolt head (or nut) as possible. Also, the flat of the bolt
head could be aligned so that it is 90 degrees to the edge of the
fitting. A small detail, to be sure--but airplanes are all about
details. (Speaking of details, it seems that some check/locking nuts are
missing on some of your tie rod ends!)
The existing bend location provides a tendency for the fitting to
straighten under load, which in turn affects the brace wire/tie rod
tension adjustment. And, as Bill pointed out, having the bend too far
from the bolt could cause the fitting to press into the spar at the
outboard end.
Possibly the existing fittings could be replaced by ones with the bend
closer to the bolt. I wouldn't recommend adding an extra bolt because
the single bolt allows the horizontal stab. fittings to line up with the
brace wires. A single AN3 bolt is plenty strong for this application,
anyway. I used a single bolt on each of my Pietenpol stab. fittings for
this reason--and the bends are as close to the bolt head as I could get
them. The brace wires are 3/32" stainless steel cable and the setup has
been completely satisfactory since 1970 when I first flew it..
Despite this design deficiency, the setup you have will likely never
cause you any trouble if you keep an eye on it. A plus is that it is
easily checked during your pre-fight inspection.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
tail brace wires
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
From:
<harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Good to hear from you Graham. The brackets are the ones specified in the
Grega drawings and the bolt holes are what they call for, right or
wrong. I will certainly keep an eye on these as you said. There is a
lock nut at either end of each rod but not at both ends of each. My AME
said that as long as there is one at either end of each rod that it
should be sufficient. Again, I will be checking on these on a regular
basis to make sure they don't move. As you said, all part of the walk
around.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Hansen
Sent: March 19, 2007 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail brace wires
Harvey,
Bill Church is correct when he says the bend in the fitting is in the
wrong place. Good engineering practice would have placed the bend as
close to the bolt head (or nut) as possible. Also, the flat of the bolt
head could be aligned so that it is 90 degrees to the edge of the
fitting. A small detail, to be sure--but airplanes are all about
details. (Speaking of details, it seems that some check/locking nuts are
missing on some of your tie rod ends!)
The existing bend location provides a tendency for the fitting to
straighten under load, which in turn affects the brace wire/tie rod
tension adjustment. And, as Bill pointed out, having the bend too far
from the bolt could cause the fitting to press into the spar at the
outboard end.
Possibly the existing fittings could be replaced by ones with the bend
closer to the bolt. I wouldn't recommend adding an extra bolt because
the single bolt allows the horizontal stab. fittings to line up with the
brace wires. A single AN3 bolt is plenty strong for this application,
anyway. I used a single bolt on each of my Pietenpol stab. fittings for
this reason--and the bends are as close to the bolt head as I could get
them. The brace wires are 3/32" stainless steel cable and the setup has
been completely satisfactory since 1970 when I first flew it..
Despite this design deficiency, the setup you have will likely never
cause you any trouble if you keep an eye on it. A plus is that it is
easily checked during your pre-fight inspection.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
Members of the list:
After seeing photos and studying material given of this wonderful propeller,
is there a collection of interested members to recreate this propeller? Is it
advantageous to have this duplicated in numbers to keep costs down? Any idea where
one can get this propeller for duplication?....I would love to have this
designed propeller on my finished Pietenpol....Ideas?
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
Subject:
Re: Scimitar Propeller
Ken,
Here is a prop that I love, made by Jay Anderson of CLOUDCARS. I was
going to buy one, but Chuck Gantzer has be convinced I can carve one myself.
Chuck mentioned to me that this prop probably isn't a true scimitar, but I love
the way it looks nonetheless. How long it will take me to carve it is anyone's
guess, but I'm gonna give it a crack. If it turns out decent, I would be
glad to loan it out for duplication.
Ron
do not archive
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________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject:
Reasons for building
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
I have been looking forward for quite a while to having my grandson
visit on a day when the weather was good for building. That happened
this last Saturday with my almost 4-year old grandson and his 2.5 year
old sister going with Gramps out to the shop.
I had just finished boxing up most of the lower fuselage and could take
the glue clamps off the pilot's seat frame. I turned the fuse right
side up and set Jaedon up on the work table with the intent of laying a
temporary board across the seat frame and letting him be the first to
sit in "the airplane". He immediately picked up a short board (about 6"
long) and laid it sideways across the tail post for the "back wing."
I said; "Jaedon, don't you want to sit in the airplane?" He said; " No
Gramps! Not enough glue."
Hope he doesn't know more about this than Gramps does!
Tom Stinemetze
The Airplane Nut
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 19, 2007
Subject:
Re: Scimitar Propeller
Ken,
A few years ago, '58 or'59, I attended a flyin in Waco where I met Ray Hegy.
He had a mini biplane named after a Humming bird in Spanish. As I remember,
and that's not too good lately, this plane had a true scimtar
propeller.
I ordered my prop for 41CC from Hegy but Ray has long been gone and his
grandson Jim Corder made me a beautiful semi-scimitar. He also made another for
311CC which I sold with the project. Jim has moved from Marfa, Texas to Olathe,
Colorado. His phone is 970 323 6341. He just might have some of his
grandpas patterns for a full scimitar. Good luck
Corky
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________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Corky....
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: Ken,
A few years ago, '58 or'59, I attended a flyin in Waco where I met Ray Hegy.
He had a mini biplane named after a Humming bird in Spanish. As I remember, and
that's not too good lately, this plane had a true scimtar
propeller.
I ordered my prop for 41CC from Hegy but Ray has long been gone and his grandson
Jim Corder made me a beautiful semi-scimitar. He also made another for 311CC
which I sold with the project. Jim has moved from Marfa, Texas to Olathe, Colorado.
His phone is 970 323 6341. He just might have some of his grandpas patterns
for a full scimitar. Good luck
Corky
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Subject:
Nice brakes: So Cal Pietenpol
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Group: of possible interest from EAA Chapter 1279. Nice setup, eh
?
Hi Mike,
One of our members, Dick Staley, told me that he had been
communicating with you regarding the progress on our Pietenpol here at
French Valley in Southern California. He said you questioned whether we
were planning to install brakes. Perhaps he answered your question
already. Here are some photos of the brake system we are using. It is
WAY more elaborate than we really need. But it was donated (by Dick
Staley, as a matter of fact), so we are using it and fabricating
whatever we need to make it work.
The brake system is European made and intended to be used on
racing Go-Karts. It is a hydraulic system with two master cylinders.
So we have the capacity to have differential braking. We are debating
whether that is really necessary, though. In the interest of
simplicity, we are thinking of installing a single brake lever just to
hold the airplane for run up etc. We still have not made any firm
decision on that yet.
As always, thanks for your interest. By the way, did you see
the article regarding our workshops and project in the Chapter Hangar
section of the current issue of Sport Aviation? It was written a year
ago, so we have made some progress since then. We were thrilled to get
the exposure, though.
Steve Williamson, Pres.
EAA Chapter 1279
French Valley, CA
Disc, caliper, and master cylinders
Caliper as it will be mounted on axle. Note aluminum spacer on
the hub.
Current photo of our Piet next to a fun project I built last
year for my grandson.
________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Corky,
I had previously posted the fact that I have a scimitar on my Piete made by
Jay Anderson in TX. Was wondering, what engine did you have cranking your
semi-scrimitar? The one I have is on a 108hp Lyco, and I get about 2550
rpms,
on takeoff and 2200 static. Wonder if a corvair or less hp engine could
swing a scrimitar. Anyone out there wanting to try this may want to get the
pitch right for the HP available. These props have a heck of a lot of bite.
Gordon
Original Message:
-----------------
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Propeller
Thanks Corky....
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: Ken,
A few years ago, '58 or'59, I attended a flyin in Waco where I met Ray
Hegy. He had a mini biplane named after a Humming bird in Spanish. As I
remember, and that's not too good lately, this plane had a true scimtar
propeller.
I ordered my prop for 41CC from Hegy but Ray has long been gone and his
grandson Jim Corder made me a beautiful semi-scimitar. He also made another
for 311CC which I sold with the project. Jim has moved from Marfa, Texas to
Olathe, Colorado. His phone is 970 323 6341. He just might have some of his
grandpas patterns for a full scimitar. Good luck
Corky
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From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
Subject:
Re: Scimitar Propeller
Gordon,
It is a Hegy 72X42 on a tapered shaft Cont A-65. Good climbout and moderate
cruise. Check with Oscar he now owns the plane.
Corky
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From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
Subject:
Re: Scimitar Propeller
Gordon
Found this pic in old files when I first received my Hegy prop now on 41CC
Corky
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From:
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Scimitar Propeller
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
Good looking prop but the kid holding it sure is ugly.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Propeller
Gordon
Found this pic in old files when I first received my Hegy prop now on
41CC
Corky
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From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
Subject:
Re: Scimitar Propeller
You finally got that right
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Subject:
Re: props
From:
"old-dutch" <jeromegerri(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
Robert; If you still need a prop, I have a Hegy 66 X 30, that I'll probably never
use. I bought it 4-5 years ago with a Corvair engine and its been hanging
on the wall since then. I was told it only had a few hours on it and it looks
like new. If you are interested e-mail me at my e-mail address. Jerome
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101988#101988
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: props
From:
"old-dutch" <jeromegerri(at)gmail.com>
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
Robert; I forgot that my e=mail address is hidden. It's jeromegerri(at)gmail.com.
Jerome
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101991#101991
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
pulley diameter
From:
"skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
I am getting ready to rig the aileron cables on my GN-1.I see in the plans that
it calls for AN-210.I do not see the diameter and from looking at the plans the
only thing I can find to give a size is the pulley guard distance of 1 1/16
- that indicates to me that the 2" O.D. ones are big enough though from reading
the A/S catalog I'm not sure those are acceptible for flight controls on 90
degree bends.Is this what most are using? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101999#101999
________________________________________________________________________________
Corky,
In response to his question...will a Continential 65 swing a Scimita prop?
Ken H
Fargo, ND
"gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" wrote:
Corky,
I had previously posted the fact that I have a scimitar on my Piete made by
Jay Anderson in TX. Was wondering, what engine did you have cranking your
semi-scrimitar? The one I have is on a 108hp Lyco, and I get about 2550
rpms,
on takeoff and 2200 static. Wonder if a corvair or less hp engine could
swing a scrimitar. Anyone out there wanting to try this may want to get the
pitch right for the HP available. These props have a heck of a lot of bite.
Gordon
Original Message:
-----------------
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 06:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Scimitar Propeller
Thanks Corky....
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote: Ken,
A few years ago, '58 or'59, I attended a flyin in Waco where I met Ray
Hegy. He had a mini biplane named after a Humming bird in Spanish. As I
remember, and that's not too good lately, this plane had a true scimtar
propeller.
I ordered my prop for 41CC from Hegy but Ray has long been gone and his
grandson Jim Corder made me a beautiful semi-scimitar. He also made another
for 311CC which I sold with the project. Jim has moved from Marfa, Texas to
Olathe, Colorado. His phone is 970 323 6341. He just might have some of his
grandpas patterns for a full scimitar. Good luck
Corky
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From:
"Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Where to get Copies of old US Government Manuals
Date:
Mar 20, 2007
For anyone interested in wood aircraft design, I found this place on the
internet late last week and purchased ANC-18 and ANC-19 from them. These
are mostly photo copies of the old government publications. They are good
copies, bound in a two hole cardboard cover type thingy with the bent metal
prongs thingy you would use in an office. I'm happy with what I got for the
price. Service was great. Shipping was fast.
http://www.esscoaircraft.com/HARD_TO_FIND_BOOKS_s/16323.htm
Still cutting landing gear legs
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
props
Date:
Mar 21, 2007
>He had a mini biplane named after a Humming bird in Spanish.
"El Chuparosa". I think Ray took that airplane to quite a few fly-ins, as
it was well known at the time.
>As I remember, and that's not too good lately, this plane had a true
>scimtar propeller.
Ray being a prop-maker, I'll bet "Chuparosa" had a dozen different props on
it while he flew it... maybe more. No telling what experimental props he
ran on it! I found one picture of the airplane on the Steen Aerolabs site
and it shows a semi-scimitar with square tips. You can see this photo and
the prop at http://www.flysquirrel.net/Chuparosa.jpg
>It is a Hegy 72X42 on a tapered shaft Cont A-65. Good climbout and
>moderate
>cruise. Check with Oscar he now owns the plane.
I have not had the chance to fly the airplane as much as I would like, but
so far it's just as Corky describes. I haven't had a huge passenger aboard
yet, haven't flown it in high or hot conditions, but so far it seems very
sprightly on takeoff and I love the way it climbs out. I was surprised at
