Pietenpol-List Archive Browser

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ft
March 21, 2007 - April 05, 2007

the cruise- it will cruise at a lot better than 70 MPH but then again the engine can be easily run over redline in straight & level flight if I firewall the throttle. I believe it is just about a perfect balance for this airplane and its mission, and I do not plan to ever think about different props on this airplane. My respect for Corky grows every time I see the reason why he did some of the things that he did on this airplane. It is a fine flying machine. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Its tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Pulleys
I made my pulleys just like 2" AN210 . The material is Grilon with stainless bushing and nylon washers. Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys
Date: Mar 21, 2007
. . . and you put those bolts through the pulley brackets how????????? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete<mailto:moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys I made my pulleys just like 2" AN210 . The material is Grilon with stainless bushing and nylon washers. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED. Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est=E1 en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys
Date: Mar 21, 2007
I assume you wiggle them in at an angle through the bracket first then put the whole assembly into the holes in the spar. like a chinese puzzle. DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys . . . and you put those bolts through the pulley brackets how????????? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys I made my pulleys just like 2" AN210 . The material is Grilon with stainless bushing and nylon washers. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED. Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est=E1 en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys
Date: Mar 21, 2007
nice!! very clean. DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys I made my pulleys just like 2" AN210 . The material is Grilon with stainless bushing and nylon washers. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED. Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est=E1 en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pulleys
come on.....where's the glue? tee-hee-hee KMHeide Fargo,ND DJ Vegh wrote: nice!! very clean. DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys I made my pulleys just like 2" AN210 . The material is Grilon with stainless bushing and nylon washers. Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). --------------------------------- --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pulleys
They are not hard to do. Just drop the bolts into the bracket, and feed the bolts thru the holes in the spar. When secured with large flats and nuts, you assemble the pullies in place. Not nearly as hard as assembling the tail wheel to the tail frame assy Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys . . . and you put those bolts through the pulley brackets how????????? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys I made my pulleys just like 2" AN210 . The material is Grilon with stainless bushing and nylon washers. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED. Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est=E1 en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pulleys
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Very pretty work,only thing that would bother me is there is not really a brace to carry the side load as the cable pulls on them the way I see that.-I realize there isn't a great deal ,but the pull would be at about a 45 degree angle down the length of the spar would it not? the drawings I have for the GN-1 have the bracket built with 2 bolts and the strength runing parallel to the spar-horizontal.I know they need to lean some to align with the horn end but I would be concerned if I didn't add some type of brace there.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102158#102158 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Pulleys
Raymond, These brackets look identical to mine, and I'm sure many many others, as they are per the 1933 BHP Hoopman plans. I'm sure these types of brackets have performed satisfactorily in the air for many years and hours. In this application, there is not a lot of side load to speak of, because you can only tighten the aileron cables so much before everything binds up. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Eggs and dexterity
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Hi everybody Today first day of spring it is possible to stand a raw egg on end. It is a good test and I know it can be done as I did it today. I better start Piet construction soon before I go completely off the deep end. Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ Its tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMMartagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pulleys
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Well if it's not broke don't fix it I guess-thanks for the heads up.as you can tell I have not seen a set of original Piet plans and I have no doubt if they have been built for that long they have proved themselves.I had no intention of stepping on anyones toes-just would rather be wrong than see anybody hurt.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102182#102182 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Piet in FL
Are there any projects for sale, projects or members in the Lake Land-Winter Haven-Lake Wales, Florida area? I am considering building/buying and need some guidence. --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Crush Plate and camshaft
Date: Mar 21, 2007
I'm looking for a propeller crush plate for my continental A 65. Anyone have one they want to sell or know where I can find one? Bought one off E-bay about 6 months ago and it doesn't fit (too big). I'm also looking for a good camshaft for the A65. Thank you Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Pulleys
Thank you very much Mike and guys!!! i'm building the Piet with my brother. About those bolts, we put them in place before welding because we remember what Mike said in his video (thanks again). Otherwiswe it wont fit because of the angled tab. No problem with the other end (less angle). I also will install cable guards. The wing is now hanging in the local "Aeroclub" hangar (I really miss her). I promise more photos soon if you guys are not tired of looking piet bones. Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet in FL
Date: Mar 21, 2007
Ryan; There are two Piet projects for sale in Huntsville, Alabama... 700 mi. from Lakeland. The nicer one is ready to mount a Ford Model A engine on it and the engine is part of the project. They are in the estate of our departed Pietenpoler Carl Vought. Information on the two projects is available at http://krnet.org/piet/ Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ i'm making a difference.Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Piet in FL
We have one flying Pietenpol and two projects underway over in Titusville. The flying Pietenpol has only flown a few hours because the owner/builder is working on his tailwheel endorsement. Our chapter has a project under construction right at the airport, Arthur Dunn X21. We have a pancake breakfast the first Saturday of each month and that would be a good time to see those two. Maybe you could catch a ride or fly over. Its a real nice breakfast for 3 bucks, and we have had as many as 50 planes come in on a nice day. My project is about 6 miles from the airport in my shop. You can catch some older pictures of it on mykitplanes.com, or on the westcoastpiet website. I don't know of any projects for sale at this point Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote: > Are there any projects for sale, projects or members in the Lake > Land-Winter Haven-Lake Wales, Florida area? I am considering > building/buying and need some guidence. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49935/*http://games.yahoo.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Subject: Pulley's
Hey Santiago, The pulleys look mucho goodo. (for those of you that don't speak Spanish, that means "very good"). Are you going to fly your machine up to Brodhead after you finish? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Subject: Piet in FL
Ryan, My Piete is up at Kay Larken Airport in Palatka, flying great, most absolute fun airplane I have ever flown in last 40 years. But I can only fly during few winter months when I'm down in FL, would consider selling for $19K. Less than 20 hrs since top overhaul on 108hp Lyc, battery start, new paint and Stits, etc.. Thinking about starting new project this next winter with more room for fat guys like me and closed cockpit so I can take to home in AK year around. Wifey ain't gonna allow no more airplane projects unless something airplane gets sold!!!!!!! If you're interested you can contact me off group at gbowen(at)ptialaska.net and/or call my owner/builder partner in FL. Gordon Bowen Original Message: ----------------- From: Ryan Michalkiewicz mskybolt(at)yahoo.com Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet in FL Are there any projects for sale, projects or members in the Lake Land-Winter Haven-Lake Wales, Florida area? I am considering building/buying and need some guidence. --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft Windows and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: aircraft registration form 8050-1
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Mar 22, 2007
I am in the process of filling out my registration forms for this project I bought from D.J. - on the line marked aircraft serial number-is that to be the plans serial number I have,or just a number I pick for it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102368#102368 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft registration form 8050-1
Date: Mar 22, 2007
You give it whatever serial number you want. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircraft registration form 8050-1 > > > I am in the process of filling out my registration forms for this project > I bought from D.J. - on the line marked aircraft serial number-is that to > be the plans serial number I have,or just a number I pick for it? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102368#102368 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Piet in FL
Thanks everyone for the info! All projects sound very nice. Ben, I may take you up on thoes pancakes. I can not decide between starting a project from scratch or waiting to find the right project. Cost/price is my first concern. I am leaning toward Corvair power. I weigh 230 and would like to take a 170lb passanger. We have one flying Pietenpol and two projects underway over in Titusville. The flying Pietenpol has only flown a few hours because the owner/builder is working on his tailwheel endorsement. Our chapter has a project under construction right at the airport, Arthur Dunn X21. We have a pancake breakfast the first Saturday of each month and that would be a good time to see those two. Maybe you could catch a ride or fly over. Its a real nice breakfast for 3 bucks, and we have had as many as 50 planes come in on a nice day. My project is about 6 miles from the airport in my shop. You can catch some older pictures of it on mykitplanes.com, or on the westcoastpiet website. I don't know of any projects for sale at this point Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote: > Are there any projects for sale, projects or members in the Lake > Land-Winter Haven-Lake Wales, Florida area? I am considering > building/buying and need some guidence. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: New to the list...
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Hello, I am new to the list and would like to build a Peitenpol. I am looking for a set of plans if anyone has an unused set or the address where I can order a set if they are still available. Thanks, Max ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Pulley's
Thanks Dan, your Piet looks very lindo. About Brodhead, maybe is a good idea if learn to fly firt : ) Rare, but that's the reason why I'm building it. The Piet and my brother will be my teachers. Going up to brodhead has been in my dreams for a long time, just dreams by now. Look http://www.hangar57.com/ValeLaPenaRecordar.htm Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: New to the list...
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Welcome to the list, Max. Plans are still available from the Pietenpol family. Here is their website: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ There is quite a bit of information available there, and tons of stuff available in the archives of this list Ben Charvet Mims, Fl > > From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> > Date: 2007/03/22 Thu PM 08:46:22 EST > To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list... > > > Hello, > I am new to the list and would like to build a Peitenpol. I am looking for > a set of plans if anyone has an unused set or the address where I can order > a set if they are still available. > > Thanks, > Max > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to the list...
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Hello Max, Welcome to the list. Not sure if you've ever seen a Piet up close but it really helps get you motivated! There are Piets all over the country, where are you from? You may have someone close by that you could visit. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102406#102406 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: New to the list...
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Hello Don, I live just west of Columbia, TN. I have actually been looking at Pietenpols since the early 60's. Just took retirement to get me to started. Thanks, Max ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New to the list... > > Hello Max, > Welcome to the list. Not sure if you've ever seen a Piet up close but it > really helps get you motivated! There are Piets all over the country, > where are you from? You may have someone close by that you could visit. > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102406#102406 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: New to the list...
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Ben, Thanks! Max Williamsport, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to the list... > > Welcome to the list, Max. Plans are still available from the Pietenpol > family. Here is their website: > http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ > There is quite a bit of information available there, and tons of stuff > available in the archives of this list > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl >> >> From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> >> Date: 2007/03/22 Thu PM 08:46:22 EST >> To: >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list... >> >> >> Hello, >> I am new to the list and would like to build a Peitenpol. I am looking >> for >> a set of plans if anyone has an unused set or the address where I can >> order >> a set if they are still available. >> >> Thanks, >> Max >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: New to the list...
Date: Mar 22, 2007
Hi Max Plans can be purchased from Donald Pietenpol 1604 Meadow Cr. Rochester, Mn. 55904 Try using Google and type in Donald Pietenpol and check out his web site. A couple of things you may want to think about before ordering plans. Have you thought about what type of engine you would like to use? If A-65 or Corvair, you will need long fuse supplement plan, if Model A, short fuse. One piece wing or 3 piece wing? If 3, you will need that supplement. You will be able to find lots of help in this group. Dick N. St. Paul, Mn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list... > > Hello, > I am new to the list and would like to build a Peitenpol. I am looking > for a set of plans if anyone has an unused set or the address where I can > order a set if they are still available. > > Thanks, > Max > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Carl Vought's projects...
Date: Mar 23, 2007
...are sold. Here's the info: >both Piets [sold] today to fellows in Tennessee. I would greatly >appreciate >your making this known to the Pietenpol web so they will not be looking >to buy them, They are going to be picked up the first of the week. Many >thanks -- Bob OK... does anyone know who these "Volunteers" from Tennessee might be? Let's get them on the list and help 'em finish up one or both of Carl's projects! It's too darn much fun flying these things to see them sit in a hangar or storage unit when they could be Pietenpoling! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ 5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free quotes - *Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Santiago: donde estas?
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Santiago; Where are you in S. America? Argentina? Tango! Let's assume that you are in Cordoba, Argentina. The great circle route between SACO (Cordoba) and KSAT (San Antonio, TX) is 4765.3 statute miles on a heading of 149 degrees. With an average cruise speed of 65 MPH in my Pietenpol, I can be there in about 74 hours. Flying 10 hours per day, that's only about a week in a Pietenpol, not allowing any time for customs or immigration or fueling or anything else ;o) Let's exchange pictures instead of trying to fly over to see each other! Saludos, and let's enjoy a good Argentine beef steak! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ i'm making a difference.Make every IM count for the cause of your choice. Join Now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: aircraft registration form 8050-1
Date: Mar 23, 2007
how about using the serial number on the plans that came w/ DJ's project??? in fact if I remember correctly you should have 2 sets of plans. One of the older small format 11X18 plans and the large format ones should be, if not the first in that series prety dang close to it, as DJ assisted in the development of the large format plans for the GN1 and if I recall correctly was the first to have a set. michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net> > > > I am in the process of filling out my registration forms for this project I bought from D.J. - on the line marked aircraft serial number-is that to be the plans serial number I have,or just a number I pick for it? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: New to the list...
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Max: check ebay right now there is a set listed under aircraft/plans you may also want to look under projects ast there is a a nice steel bare fuse project for sale quite reasonably priced. michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> > > Hello, > I am new to the list and would like to build a Peitenpol. I am looking for > a set of plans if anyone has an unused set or the address where I can order > a set if they are still available. > > Thanks, > Max ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: registration answer
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Well I got about the same number answers for both choices.Called the FAA office this morning like I should have done and talked to a lady in the inspection department.She said whatever turns you on it doesn't matter! so I think I will put my plans number in that box and go with that but it is entirely up to the person registering it if it is plans built.thanks for the advice.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102476#102476 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Santiago: donde estas?
Hi Oscar!! I agree, let's exchange pictures : ) I live in Santa Rosa, La Pampa, about 375 miles south of Cdoba (where Patagonia begins). If you see the Marcelo Matocq's trip http://www.hangar57.com/Cristobal%20Colon%20.htm you will find thats not funny to fly over the Amazonas with a used Rotax engine! For the water, he use a truck tube connected to a fire extinguisher to inflate it, and fill the wings with inflated condoms! I would really like to mount in one of those fat multi engines whales and visit Brodhead sometime. For now, let's exchange pictures. --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2007
From: "Wayne E. Bressler Jr." <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Piets in Middle TN
Max, I used to live in Murfreesboro, and I believe there was a man that was building a Piet there. I can't remember his name, but he owned the motorcycle shop there in town. Not the Harley place, but the Japanese bike shop. He also built a Thorp T-18 that his son is currently flying out at MBT. Look up the EAA chapter there, and they'll be able to point you in the right direction. There was also a Piet based at the Lebanon, TN airport. Last I saw it, it hadn't been flown yet, but was very close. That was well over a year ago, so I'm sure it's been flown by now! -Wayne wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com www.taildraggersinc.com Max Hegler wrote: > > Hello Don, > I live just west of Columbia, TN. I have actually been looking at > Pietenpols since the early 60's. Just took retirement to get me to > started. > > Thanks, > Max ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Santiago: donde estas?
Santiago, Oh my Gosh your airplane is beautiful !!! (lindo). Too pretty to cover up. Obviously you have taken great care in every part. When you decide to visit Brodhead you can stay at my home. I am only 40 miles away and we can fly from here to there. As you might have surmised from my posts it is obvious I speak fluent Spanish, so communication will not be a problem. :0) Hasta viene a Brodhead, Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL (C77) do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: pulley diameter
Date: Mar 23, 2007
I'm using MS24566-3B pulleys on my GN-1. The attached photo shows the wing pulleys done per the cad plans. The center section pulleys are much more complicated -- the plans are wrong (just one of dozens of errors). The drawing was fudged to make the pulley fit on the spar. In reality the bottom of the pulley protrudes through the bottom of the wing. The center section pulleys have to be staggered so the cables don't interfere and canted 3 degrees aft because of the placement of the aileron control horn on the front stick. Good Luck. Tom Bernie Gloucester Mass -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytownflyer Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley diameter I am getting ready to rig the aileron cables on my GN-1.I see in the plans that it calls for AN-210.I do not see the diameter and from looking at the plans the only thing I can find to give a size is the pulley guard distance of 1 1/16 - that indicates to me that the 2" O.D. ones are big enough though from reading the A/S catalog I'm not sure those are acceptible for flight controls on 90 degree bends.Is this what most are using? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101999#101999 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: pulley diameter
Date: Mar 23, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Yup that's about right from what I see on mine. As you can see I used cover plates cut in half to cover part of the hole and still leave the pulley sticking out below it. I considered using leather to cover the holes but I thought maybe on a real bad day the leather would get into the pulley and I'd be in a world of trouble. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Bernie Sent: March 23, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pulley diameter I'm using MS24566-3B pulleys on my GN-1. The attached photo shows the wing pulleys done per the cad plans. The center section pulleys are much more complicated -- the plans are wrong (just one of dozens of errors). The drawing was fudged to make the pulley fit on the spar. In reality the bottom of the pulley protrudes through the bottom of the wing. The center section pulleys have to be staggered so the cables don't interfere and canted 3 degrees aft because of the placement of the aileron control horn on the front stick. Good Luck. Tom Bernie Gloucester Mass -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytownflyer Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley diameter I am getting ready to rig the aileron cables on my GN-1.I see in the plans that it calls for AN-210.I do not see the diameter and from looking at the plans the only thing I can find to give a size is the pulley guard distance of 1 1/16 - that indicates to me that the 2" O.D. ones are big enough though from reading the A/S catalog I'm not sure those are acceptible for flight controls on 90 degree bends.Is this what most are using? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=101999#101999 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: New to the list...
Max, Go here,,, http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol It shows all the Piets and their builders (that have added theirs) Add yourself, as a potential builder Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to the list... > > Hello, > I am new to the list and would like to build a Peitenpol. I am looking > for a set of plans if anyone has an unused set or the address where I can > order a set if they are still available. > > Thanks, > Max > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Got the engine in hand
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Picked it up today after a 10 hour round trip, A65-8 130h SMOH with two mags, prop hub, and carb. I need to ferret out a few things, eyebrows, aircleaner assembly, and I am sure a few small items. I need to fab up my exhaust system and need to do some research on carb heat and other such details. http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/Pietengine.jpg -Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Got the engine in hand
Date: Mar 23, 2007
Scott; I looked at the photo of your A65. that piece of junk is dangerous and you should never fly behind it in a Piet or anything else. Get rid of it immediately. I'll give you $150 for it right now! ;o) The engine is the heart of your Piet, isn't it? You build the boat, the gear, the tail feathers, the controls, even the wings- but it doesn't have a heartbeat until that engine is in your hands. When that mass of metal comes into the shop, even before you tighten the bolts that hold the engine mount to the airframe, flight suddenly becomes possible! I love engines. They are big, heavy hunks of metal but they are the hearts, too. I love the smell of exhaust, and fuel, and oil, and all of that comes from the engine. Mind you, the higher plane of this feeling is when you have a radial engine, but a pancake four will do just fine for everyday, too! And considering that the engine represents probably half the cost of your airplane (if not more), when you have that piece and the prop safely in the shop, you're looking at little piddly costs from then until the end of the project. You're over the hump. Good on you, Scott. Put the heart in your airplane and you will be so much closer to flying! The heartbeat will be ready as soon as you hook that fuel line to the carb and the ignition switches to the mags. From there, it's downhill and the next thing you know, you'll be lining up on the runway centerline with the throttle ready to go full forward. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Got the engine in hand
Scott, If you have a Harbor Freight Tools Company near you....look in the store for a Vise Stand. It is a nice three foot high metal stand on four L-bent legs with a small try on the bottom level. Make a pattern of your prop bolts and drill out the pattern on the top of this stand. Bolt your A65 engine to the stand and you have a very nice engine builder stand for about $30.00 bucks. Then you can spin the motor and work on it as you need plus.... it is off the floor and secure in a wide base stand out of the way until needed. If you need some photos, advise and I can send you some. Ken Heide Fargo, ND Scott Schreiber wrote: Picked it up today after a 10 hour round trip, A65-8 130h SMOH with two mags, prop hub, and carb. I need to ferret out a few things, eyebrows, aircleaner assembly, and I am sure a few small items. I need to fab up my exhaust system and need to do some research on carb heat and other such details. http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/Pietengine.jpg -Scott --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Santiago: donde estas?
Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see the finished product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I guess I will cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less expensive). Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <maxhegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Carl Vought's projects...
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Oscar, I am one of the "Volunteers" and hope to have one of the Piets flying by the end of summer. Carl was a master at woodworking, and it shows... Take Care, Max >From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carl Vought's projects... >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:18:04 -0500 > > > >...are sold. Here's the info: > >>both Piets [sold] today to fellows in Tennessee. I would greatly >>appreciate >>your making this known to the Pietenpol web so they will not be looking >>to buy them, They are going to be picked up the first of the week. Many >>thanks -- Bob > >OK... does anyone know who these "Volunteers" from Tennessee might be? >Let's get them on the list and help 'em finish up one or both of Carl's >projects! It's too darn much fun flying these things to see them sit in a >hangar or storage unit when they could be Pietenpoling! > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >_________________________________________________________________ >5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free >quotes - *Terms >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pulley's
Great website Santiago (mu bueno). Even though I took two years of Spanish in junior high I am embarrassed to say that I cannot understand a single thing on the site. Hope to see you at Broadhead. Rick On 3/22/07, santiago morete wrote: > > Thanks Dan, your Piet looks *very lindo*. About Brodhead, maybe is a good > idea if learn to fly firt : ) Rare, but that's the reason why I'm buildin g > it. The Piet and my brother will be my teachers. Going up to brodhead h as > been in my dreams for a long time, just dreams by now. Look > http://www.hangar57.com/ValeLaPenaRecordar.htm > > Santiago > > ------------------------------ > *Pregunt=E1. Respond=E9. Descubr=ED.* > Todo lo que quer=EDas saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, > est=E1 en *Yahoo! Respuestas* (Beta). > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 41CC cruise performance
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Well, today was a bit windy but it was pretty much right down the runway so I went up for a while. Trimmed out in level cruise with about 1/2 tank and just me aboard, things settled down and I intentionally set 2350 RPM on the tach (not sure if it's calibrated though). Level cruise about 68 MPH indicated. This is Pietenpol country. If I firewall the throttle I can increase cruise to 70-75 easily, but the airplane feels like it's fighting me a little bit and I have to keep my head down behind the windscreen. If I set things like they really want to be, I can hold my head normally and things settle down pretty well. I made a high-speed pass again, but with a 15-20 MPH headwind right down the runway, nobody was impressed when 41CC came purring down the runway at a groundspeed just a little better than the tractor that was mowing the areas alongside the runway. My landing wasn't anything to write home about, but the wind was at least 15, quartering when I touched down, so I was happy. The tires and spring gear take all the embarassment out of bounced landings, I'm glad to say. This is a fun airplane! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN Presents today. http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Carl Vought's projects...
Oscar & Max.......... I wished I knew who ended up with the Bridgeport Mill and lathe.....I heard it went for $2,800.00 including all tooling...... Rats! Ken H Fargo, ND Max Hegler wrote: Oscar, I am one of the "Volunteers" and hope to have one of the Piets flying by the end of summer. Carl was a master at woodworking, and it shows... Take Care, Max >From: "Oscar Zuniga" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carl Vought's projects... >Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 00:18:04 -0500 > > >...are sold. Here's the info: > >>both Piets [sold] today to fellows in Tennessee. I would greatly >>appreciate >>your making this known to the Pietenpol web so they will not be looking >>to buy them, They are going to be picked up the first of the week. Many >>thanks -- Bob > >OK... does anyone know who these "Volunteers" from Tennessee might be? >Let's get them on the list and help 'em finish up one or both of Carl's >projects! It's too darn much fun flying these things to see them sit in a >hangar or storage unit when they could be Pietenpoling! > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >_________________________________________________________________ >5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free >quotes - *Terms >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910 > > --------------------------------- It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)capital.net>
Subject: steam vent and fuel tank
Date: Mar 24, 2007
Thanks to Douwe Blumberg, Walt Evans, and Dan Helper for responding to my pleas for advice. I think the steel strapping for the fuel tank sounds like a good method but I also have some nylon straps that would work well if I find a way to tighten them. I am going to try a 3/8 hole for the steam vent and can go larger if needed. I am still a ways from running the engine but would like to have the machine work on the head done so I can install it. I am going to try to get to sun'n'fun at least 2 days 17&18 and maybe I will get to see a real live Pietenpol there Don Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Carl Vought's projects...
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Ken: I believe I heard that was Mark Langford KR builder par-excelance over at the Corvair list. michael ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Oscar & Max.......... I wished I knew who ended up with the Bridgeport Mill and lathe.....I heard it went for $2,800.00 including all tooling...... Rats! Ken H Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Subject: (no subject)
Pieters, Am involved in a nasty job. Cleaning a fuel tank coated with fuel varnish. Anyone who could offer a suggestion to make this job a bit easier but still thorough I would appreciate hearing from Corky( Aeronca Defender Tank) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 41CC cruise performance
Oscar, Read your performance stats,,,doesn't that had a 65 on it? What prop? thanks Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 41CC cruise performance > > > Well, today was a bit windy but it was pretty much right down the runway > so I went up for a while. Trimmed out in level cruise with about 1/2 tank > and just me aboard, things settled down and I intentionally set 2350 RPM > on the tach (not sure if it's calibrated though). Level cruise about 68 > MPH indicated. This is Pietenpol country. > > If I firewall the throttle I can increase cruise to 70-75 easily, but the > airplane feels like it's fighting me a little bit and I have to keep my > head down behind the windscreen. If I set things like they really want to > be, I can hold my head normally and things settle down pretty well. > > I made a high-speed pass again, but with a 15-20 MPH headwind right down > the runway, nobody was impressed when 41CC came purring down the runway at > a groundspeed just a little better than the tractor that was mowing the > areas alongside the runway. > > My landing wasn't anything to write home about, but the wind was at least > 15, quartering when I touched down, so I was happy. The tires and spring > gear take all the embarassment out of bounced landings, I'm glad to say. > This is a fun airplane! > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN > Presents today. > http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Carl's mill and lathe
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Oh, I know exactly where Carl's mill and lathe went. They are now in Mark Langford's shop in Harvest, AL. Mark is the guru of KR building and has a fabulous wealth of information on KRs and Corvairs on his website, is the list admin on the KRNet and Corvaircraft lists, and was featured in the KR article in Sport Aviation in December. He is a really great guy. Mark took the photos and put up the website that showed Carl's Piet projects and did the talking with Barbara Vought to get his stuff sold at a fair price. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 41CC cruise performance
Oscar Just put a smoke system on that thing like Mike and Chuck's and they will be impressed (or they will be scarred to death, call the fire department, then send you the bill when they figure out that your Piet is designed to smoke). Rick > > > I made a high-speed pass again, but with a 15-20 MPH headwind right down > the > runway, nobody was impressed when 41CC came purring down the runway at a > groundspeed just a little better than the tractor that was mowing the > areas > alongside the runway. > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 41CC cruise performance
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Walt asks- >Read your performance stats,,,doesn't that had a 65 on it? >What prop? Yes, it has an A65 on it and the prop is a Hegy 72x42 prop on it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: GN-1 plans
Date: Mar 25, 2007
finally heard back from Bob Grega today via email. He does not want the GN-1 plans distributed in any way shape or form. So I guess for now at least it looks like the GN-1 may fall by the wayside since plans are currently unavailable and no telling when or if they ever will be. To those who are looking for GN-1 plans... I guess just try to see if anyone who bought a set and has not decided to build from them may sell them to you... or go the authentic route and get Pietenpol plans. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New prospectuve builder
From: "larryb" <morrisoninga(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Ray - I live in Conyers and also had an interest in both GN-1 and the Pete. I was surprised to see from DJ Vegh's post that the GN-1 is not currently available. But I'll tell you what one fellow told me. I was asking him about the differences, and how I was confused about which way to go, and he finally asked me, "Do you want advice from someone who has built and flown both the Pete and the GN-1?" I said, "Sure!" (I didn't know he'd done both.} He suggested the following: 1. Build the Pietenpol. 2. Build it out of wood. and 3. Build the long fuselage version. On someone else's advice, I actually bought GN-1 AND Pietenpol plans. The reason being, they are similar enough that the Grega plans (and I have the new CAD drawings) can sometimes add clarity to the Pete plans. That may be blasphemy, but it works for me. Also, check with a couple of the EAA chapters west of Atlanta--- Carrolton, or Villa Rica, or ??? I don't remember which one, but one of them has 4,5, or 6 guys all building Petes and they should be done about now. I know some of them at least were hoping to fly to Brodhead this summer. -------- Larry M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102870#102870 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 41CC cruise performance
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Oscar, You may want to check your tack. The continental A65 table of specifications lists the Rated RPM as 2300 and the recommended cruising RPM as 2150. Gene N502R & rebuilding my A65 ----- Original Message ----- From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 41CC cruise performance > > Oscar, > Read your performance stats,,,doesn't that had a 65 on it? > What prop? > thanks > Walt Evans > NX140DL > "No one ever learned anything by talking" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 11:10 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 41CC cruise performance > > >> >> >> Well, today was a bit windy but it was pretty much right down the runway >> so I went up for a while. Trimmed out in level cruise with about 1/2 >> tank and just me aboard, things settled down and I intentionally set 2350 >> RPM on the tach (not sure if it's calibrated though). Level cruise about >> 68 MPH indicated. This is Pietenpol country. >> >> If I firewall the throttle I can increase cruise to 70-75 easily, but the >> airplane feels like it's fighting me a little bit and I have to keep my >> head down behind the windscreen. If I set things like they really want >> to be, I can hold my head normally and things settle down pretty well. >> >> I made a high-speed pass again, but with a 15-20 MPH headwind right down >> the runway, nobody was impressed when 41CC came purring down the runway >> at a groundspeed just a little better than the tractor that was mowing >> the areas alongside the runway. >> >> My landing wasn't anything to write home about, but the wind was at least >> 15, quartering when I touched down, so I was happy. The tires and spring >> gear take all the embarassment out of bounced landings, I'm glad to say. >> This is a fun airplane! >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Watch free concerts with Pink, Rod Stewart, Oasis and more. Visit MSN >> Presents today. >> http://music.msn.com/presents?icid=ncmsnpresentstagline&ocid=T002MSN03A07001 >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Corky, Give "Brake Parts Cleaner" a try. Wal-Mart brand (Super Tech) is some of the best I've used and it's only about a buck twenty-five a can. I've tried some from other auto stores without much luck. I just used some to clean all the grease and gunk from my engine and while doing so it also took all the paint off. Repainting has been a breeze. I've never tried it on fuel varnish but I don't see why it wouldn't work well. Gene Still looking for a camshaft and a crush ring for my A65.----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Pieters, Am involved in a nasty job. Cleaning a fuel tank coated with fuel varnish. Anyone who could offer a suggestion to make this job a bit easier but still thorough I would appreciate hearing from Corky( Aeronca Defender Tank) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Covering materials
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Mar 25, 2007
I am trying to get a list of materials I need to start covering the wings.I have plenty of fabric as well as Polybrush and Polyspray to at least get me a long way.I want to get the tapes and such so I can get a start as soon as I'm ready.I find Aircraft Spruce sells 2" wide pinked edge Dacron finishing tapes for 9.30 for 50 yd rolls or same thing in Polyester Stits stuff for 27.70 am I wrong in thinking the generic Dacron tapes will work just as well? I am a tightwad but DJ did a beautiful job on the tailfeathers and I don't want to mess up the deal saving a hundred or two here on tapes.raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102922#102922 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Corky, When people started using ethanol it plugged fuel filters in older cars. Probably was the varnish. ken in corn growing Iowa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Ken, Or it could have been the carb parts and hose that were destroyed by the alcohol. Gene----- Original Message ----- From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Corky, When people started using ethanol it plugged fuel filters in older cars. Probably was the varnish. ken in corn growing Iowa ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New prospectuve builder
I also bought both plans and the GN1 plans did help clarify some things and provided ways to do some things that are not in the Piet plans, like seatbelts, telescoping step, cub style gear, etc. The new cad GN1 plans are very nice, any idea why Grega stopped selling plans? I would assume legal liability issues same as Ratan with the EZs. Rick On 3/25/07, larryb wrote: > > > Ray - I live in Conyers and also had an interest in both GN-1 and the > Pete. I was surprised to see from DJ Vegh's post that the GN-1 is not > currently available. But I'll tell you what one fellow told me. I was asking > him about the differences, and how I was confused about which way to go, and > he finally asked me, "Do you want advice from someone who has built and > flown both the Pete and the GN-1?" I said, "Sure!" (I didn't know he'd done > both.} He suggested the following: 1. Build the Pietenpol. 2. Build it out > of wood. and 3. Build the long fuselage version. > On someone else's advice, I actually bought GN-1 AND Pietenpol plans. The > reason being, they are similar enough that the Grega plans (and I have the > new CAD drawings) can sometimes add clarity to the Pete plans. That may be > blasphemy, but it works for me. Also, check with a couple of the EAA > chapters west of Atlanta--- Carrolton, or Villa Rica, or ??? I don't > remember which one, but one of them has 4,5, or 6 guys all building Petes > and they should be done about now. I know some of them at least were hoping > to fly to Brodhead this summer. > > -------- > Larry M > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102870#102870 > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 41CC cruise performance
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Gene wrote- >You may want to check your tack. I have every intention of doing that the next time I find someone with an optical tach. >The continental A65 table of specifications lists the Rated RPM as 2300 >and the recommended cruising RPM as 2150. I saw that. But hey- maybe Corky converted it to a 75 and didn't tell me? ;o) I suppose if I checked the tach and it's OK, then I could change my prop to add some pitch and give me 2300 at WOT, then back off to 2150 for cruise at 75% power? Or I guess maybe I need to be more gentle on the throttle, and/or move the throttle stop to where WOT only gives me 2300. It just seems like if I do that, I leave horsepower on the table and what's the sense in that? The engine seems very happy the way it's being operated. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Subject: Better Smoke
I got the ignition system operational today, and tested the engine to see if I got the mags timed right. Hasn't ran since November, and she fired up and idled on the first blade. Sweet music !! I had wrapped the exhaust pipes with 2" fiberglass (exhaust wrap), to keep the exhaust gas temp higher for better smoke, and better exhaust gas scavenging. It Worked !! Much more smoke !! Chuck G. NX770CG Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2007
Subject: Slick Mag e-gap
I wasn't able to check the e-gap of the slick mag's, because I haven't got the tool to do it...yet. I don't think I'm getting enough rpm on static run up, so I've got to get that tool, and pull the mags again to check the e-gap. Has anyone ever checked the e-gap on their slick mags ??? Chuck G. NX770CG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: 41CC cruise performance
Oscar, I just brought it up cause My 65 with 72-42 Sensinech, with just me in the plane will cruise along in the mid 80's @ 2150, and think top 90 at full bore. Not that speed it the main thing in a Piet. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 41CC cruise performance > > > Gene wrote- > >>You may want to check your tack. > > I have every intention of doing that the next time I find someone with an > optical tach. > >>The continental A65 table of specifications lists the Rated RPM as 2300 >>and the recommended cruising RPM as 2150. > > I saw that. But hey- maybe Corky converted it to a 75 and didn't tell me? > ;o) I suppose if I checked the tach and it's OK, then I could change my > prop to add some pitch and give me 2300 at WOT, then back off to 2150 for > cruise at 75% power? Or I guess maybe I need to be more gentle on the > throttle, and/or move the throttle stop to where WOT only gives me 2300. > It just seems like if I do that, I leave horsepower on the table and > what's the sense in that? The engine seems very happy the way it's being > operated. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Better Smoke
Guys, Could somebody please dream up a method of attaching a smoke system on a model A? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: IFR Model A Smoke System
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Dan, I would think you'd need at least an artificial horizon in your Ford Piet to have a smoke system since it would blanket you in smoke. (not to mention a fresh air respirator or you'll have a good case of WWI diarrhea from ingesting all that mineral oil:) I wonder if you could run one exhaust stack down inside the cowling and out the bottom ? I wonder how high the EGT is on a Ford ? Hmmmm..... Mike C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:29 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Better Smoke Guys, Could somebody please dream up a method of attaching a smoke system on a model A? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: IFR Model A Smoke System
Date: Mar 26, 2007
Isn't that why some of the old airplanes (like the SE.5) had the exhaust extended back along the fuselage, to get the exhaust past the pilot? You could do your Model A Piet that way, eh? I have found that I've had to secure the screws on the brackets that hold the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer to the top longerons, apparently due to propeller slipstream buffet. They were working themselves loose so i epoxied them in. This leads me to believe that if you divert your Model A exhaust aft like that, you might end up with some smoke oil residue on your tail feathers as the propwash picks it up and swirls it around the tail. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Covering materials
I had no tproblem with generic tapes. I even used the economy fabric from AS&S. 4 years ago it was about $3.10 a running yard. (wide enough for the Piet wing). Have you covered the tail parts yet? Assuming this is your first project, I would start with the small parts first. Covering is the most intimidating part of the project, but when you're done,,,the most rewarding. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering materials > > > I am trying to get a list of materials I need to start covering the > wings.I have plenty of fabric as well as Polybrush and Polyspray to at > least get me a long way.I want to get the tapes and such so I can get a > start as soon as I'm ready.I find Aircraft Spruce sells 2" wide pinked > edge Dacron finishing tapes for 9.30 for 50 yd rolls or same thing in > Polyester Stits stuff for 27.70 am I wrong in thinking the generic Dacron > tapes will work just as well? I am a tightwad but DJ did a beautiful job > on the tailfeathers and I don't want to mess up the deal saving a hundred > or two here on tapes.raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=102922#102922 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: Larry Rice <rice(at)iapdatacom.net>
Subject: Corvair List
What Corvair list? I'd like to get on that one. Larry the microMong guy -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair List
Go to Corvaircraft.com and a little down from the top of the page is where you subscribe to the mail list. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Larry Rice wrote: > > What Corvair list? I'd like to get on that one. > > Larry the microMong guy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair List
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Larry: heres is the link to sign up: http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html michael silvius scarborough, maine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rice" <rice(at)iapdatacom.net> > > What Corvair list? I'd like to get on that one. > > Larry the microMong guy ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I was watching a special last night about Vimy Ridge where the Canadians took the Germans in the First World War using a technique called creeping barrage and they had to use a Pietenpol to depict the old type aircraft they would have used in the War.We all know that the Piet wasn't around back then and I got a kick out of these guys using it for the show.The camera man had a hell of a time getting into the front seat until they finally figured it out.What a hoot.The show was called Vimy Ridge Heaven to Hell or something like that.In the animation they showed the real planes that would have been used.I think Bernard would have gotten a kick out of this show. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aluminum Wing?
From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 27, 2007
IMHO a properly built up aluminum spar would be lighter, stronger and cheaper than certified aircraft quality spruce. Aluminum ribs would be very easy to fabricate. If one covered the D section with aluminum it would be very rigid. don't know about the overall cost, but it would probably save a lot of time. I imagine that most Pietenpol fans would consider it pure heresy. If I did build one that way I don't believe I would call ot a Pietenpol. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: GeneWeber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 27, 2007
perhaps call it a : TunaCamper? AlumaPete? PietenSpam? DJ Vegh veghdesign.com Mesa, AZ 602.743.5768 "Where there's a will there's a Vegh" - ----- Original Message ----- From: baileys To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? IMHO a properly built up aluminum spar would be lighter, stronger and cheaper than certified aircraft quality spruce. Aluminum ribs would be very easy to fabricate. If one covered the D section with aluminum it would be very rigid. don't know about the overall cost, but it would probably save a lot of time. I imagine that most Pietenpol fans would consider it pure heresy. If I did build one that way I don't believe I would call ot a Pietenpol. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ----- Original Message ----- From: GeneWeber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? Hi Folks, Seems like almost everything under the sun has been tried regarding the AirCamper. I'm curious if anyone has used an aluminum wing on one? If so, does anyone know how the weight of the aluminum wing compared to a wooden one? Thanks, Gene Weber Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103213#103213 http://www.matp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. Regards, Gene Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
From: Amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2007
I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? Would be interested in your thoughts! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. Regards, Gene Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Subject: Alum. wing
There was a picture in one of the news letter a couple of years ago that showed a metal wing being built for a Piet. There has been no follow up since. I ve also wondered about bildig an alum. tube fus. Built the way some of those WW 1 replicas are with al. gussets and pop type rivits. Some of them are full size, and there was a Newport 28 (?) at Osh. wit a 150 hp radial. So it should be plenty strong. Another way would be to use al. angle with bolts (BD-4 style) or Avex rivits. .....or al. honey comb with some sort of exotic Jim Beedy bonding agent (glue) like that latest BD airplane. Leon S. in Ks. always thinking. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sury" <jimsury(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mag e-gap
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Chuck Are you talking about a T-150 tool for checking the e-gap? I've been looking to purchase one of them tools and was not able to find out who sells them. Checked with Aircraft Spruce and they wanted to sell me the electronic tool for setting the timing. Would appreciate if you have an address of the supplier. I don't think the e-gap setting is gonna imporve the static rpm. I have one mag that I broke the case on and had to replace it. So now I need to set the e-gap. What is happening to me is that the mag is not up to full change when it fires. On mag check the engine runs rough on that mag. Not knowing how to set it I just let the points open just as soon as they could which isn't right. Thanks Jim Sury ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 10:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Slick Mag e-gap I wasn't able to check the e-gap of the slick mag's, because I haven't got the tool to do it...yet. I don't think I'm getting enough rpm on static run up, so I've got to get that tool, and pull the mags again to check the e-gap. Has anyone ever checked the e-gap on their slick mags ??? Chuck G. NX770CG ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL now offers free http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" target="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: "Wayne E. Bressler Jr." <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
In a really old issue of Sport Aviation, some writer (I can't remember his name) went and interviewed Bernard Pietenpol. During his visit, Bernard gave him a completed built-up Air Camper rib and an aluminum Aeronca Champ rib for souvenirs. When the writer got home, he weighed both ribs on a postal scale. The result? The aluminum weighed exactly one ounce less than the wood rib. That's a saving of what? One or two pounds? Not really worth the effort, I wouldn't think. But, to each his own, right! ;-) -Wayne Bressler wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com www.taildraggersinc.com GeneWeber wrote: > > Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > > Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > > Regards, > > Gene > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Hi John I'm sure you could come up with a aluminium wood sandwich spar that is stronger and lighter than just wood. The question is what you would use to bond it together with and how you would deal with the different coefficents of expansion particularly with large temperature changes over time. How would it be possible to inspect this bond. Just my thoughts. Steve in Maine >From: Amsafetyc(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:32:40 +0000 > > >I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich >design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the >sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? > >Would be interested in your thoughts! > >John >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net> >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 >To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? > > >Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also >be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > >Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane >craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum >wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real >experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > >Regards, > >Gene > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage refinance is hot 1) Rates near 30-yr lows 2) Good credit get intro-rate 4.625%* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5f&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=743 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
As an engineer, I would be concerned about the difference in moduli of elasticity when using two quite different materials such as aluminum and wood. I would really like to see your spar design and calculations. Mike Hardaway PS: for those who don't know, pairing up materials of different elasticity can allow the stiffer material to absorb most of the stress when the composite structure is loaded. A composite structure has to be carefully designed to benefit from the combined properties of the two materials. ---- Amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote: > > I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? > > Would be interested in your thoughts! > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net> > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 > To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? > > > Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > > Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > > Regards, > > Gene > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
From: Amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Still in research and evaluation. Awaiting engineering stress analysis of spar for dynamic loading of the structure in addition to torsion evaluation as a major engineering concern in stress application. The rates of expansion due to thermal changes should not be that dramatic as to creating an issue affecting a bond. I am considering a full width fastner backed up with a capable adhesive. Considering a 3M product. All issues remain up in the air till stress analysis is complete John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:24:07 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? As an engineer, I would be concerned about the difference in moduli of elasticity when using two quite different materials such as aluminum and wood. I would really like to see your spar design and calculations. Mike Hardaway PS: for those who don't know, pairing up materials of different elasticity can allow the stiffer material to absorb most of the stress when the composite structure is loaded. A composite structure has to be carefully designed to benefit from the combined properties of the two materials. ---- Amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote: > > I am working on using a combined aluminum and wood wing spar sandwich design. My research indicates a weight and stress advantage with the sandwich design. Has anyone else considered that design alteration? > > Would be interested in your thoughts! > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net> > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:38:52 > To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing? > > > Hmmm, if the aluminum is highly polished instead of painted it could also be a "GlareCamper". Or should that be "GlairCamper"? [Wink] > > Yes, from what I've read, and from a discussion with a "seasoned" airplane craftsman, sounds like there could be a weight advantage to an aluminum wing. I'm trying to "think light". It would be great if someone had real experience/data with the AirCamper in this regard. > > Regards, > > Gene > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103262#103262 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Sorry guys, but being an old world low and slow airplane builder, my eyes are beginning to glaze over. Me thinks you should switch to one of those high-tech lists. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode
That's Shawn's plane, C-FRAZ http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=103246 It's on twice more. Clif > > > I was watching a special last night about Vimy Ridge where the Canadians > took the Germans in the First World War using a technique called > creeping barrage and they had to use a Pietenpol to depict the old type > aircraft they would have used in the War.We all know that the Piet > wasn't around back then and I got a kick out of these guys using it for > the show.The camera man had a hell of a time getting into the front seat > until they finally figured it out.What a hoot.The show was called Vimy > Ridge Heaven to Hell or something like that.In the animation they showed > the real planes that would have been used.I think Bernard would have > gotten a kick out of this show. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: alum wing
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Wouldnt it be better to have this aluminum discussion a couple of days later, say April 1? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: alum wing
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Naw, on April 1st I want to have a discussion about a carbon fiber spar for the Pietenpol. Having just finished riveting together the tail section for an RV-10, I say anyone who wants to do that for a whole wing of a Pietenpol instead of the joy of creating a work of art in wood needs his head examined. Fortunately, the RV-10 has a "quickbuild" kit option for the wing. The Pietenpol doesn't have such an option. And doesn't need it for the wood wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Plotting out my course to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Wouldnt it be better to have this aluminum discussion a couple of days later, say April 1? Dick N. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Perhaps 15 years ago, I built a sample Pietenpol wing rib from .020" 2024 T3 aluminum alloy angles as a design study. It was relatively easy to fabricate, and took less time than making a standard Pietenpol rib. I never pursued the concept and gave it to a friend who still has it. The plan was to use wooden spars with aluminum ribs, leading edge skin and trailing edge in much the same way the wings of a Cub, Taylorcraft or Aeronca were built. It was felt that some weight could be saved by doing so. In any case, I would like to see someone try this approach; it won't be me because, as BHP used to say, "I've had too many birthdays!". If one could find extruded aluminum spars similar to those used on Piper airplanes, an all-metal wing structure could be had (fabric-covered, of course). Using blank Cub type spar extrusions would require changing the airfoil section, and this likely wouldn't be acceptable to Pietenpol lovers (myself included). I don't know if any weight could be saved by using metal spars, somebody out there will likely check this out. It would be virtually impossible to save weight in the "tail feathers" by going to metal. The wooden empennage is just about as light as it is possible to make it, and there is no advantage in abandoning the standard wooden version. I built a steel tubing fuselage years ago and sold it to a fellow who finished the airplane. The tail surfaces were of steel tubing with light steel channel ribs. While the basic fuselage structure was lighter than the wooden one, there wasn't much difference by the time the seat supports, brackets for controls, etc. were added. Nevertheless, the completed airplane flew well and its empty weight was about average for the type. I don't think it would be inappropriate for someone to design an all-metal wing structure, provided the appearance of the Pietenpol airplane isn't compromised too much. An alternative to scarce and expensive aircraft quality spruce would be beneficial, in my humble opinion. Go for it! Graham Hansen [Pietenpol CF-AUN (wood structure) in Alberta, Canada] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: John B Franklin Jr <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Magneto tools
Jim, Sacramento Sky Ranch has several tools for working on mags including a T150, here's the link: http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Magneto_tools_52.html See you Saturday! John F. ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode
Date: Mar 27, 2007
thats very cool, do we know if it is airing here in the US any time?? michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> > That's Shawn's plane, C-FRAZ > > http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=103246 > > It's on twice more. > > Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: alum wing
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Hey Jack I'll hopefully see you at SNF. I'll be there all week, working in the wood workshop again this year. I know Skip Gadd and P.F. Beck will also be there. We are going to try building a Volmer Amphib fuselage at the show this year. Should be interesting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:48 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Naw, on April 1st I want to have a discussion about a carbon fiber spar for the Pietenpol. Having just finished riveting together the tail section for an RV-10, I say anyone who wants to do that for a whole wing of a Pietenpol instead of the joy of creating a work of art in wood needs his head examined. Fortunately, the RV-10 has a "quickbuild" kit option for the wing. The Pietenpol doesn't have such an option. And doesn't need it for the wood wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Plotting out my course to Sun 'n' Fun in a couple of weeks -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick Navratil Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:31 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Wouldnt it be better to have this aluminum discussion a couple of days later, say April 1? Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2007
From: "Marc Dumay" <captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: ????????? Aluminum Wing, Surely you Jest ?????????
Why would you, or any one else even consider an Aluminum Wing for a Pietenpol? A Pietenpol is a Pietenpol Aluminum is great, great for some other type and purpose. To inflict such an idea upon a nostalgic design, and a bit of Aviation History is outright wrong. Lets make sure if one is built, that its ramped as far away as possible f rom the real Pietenpol builders. Cloth and wood, is what makes a Pietenpol as great as it is. No offense intended. LOL Captain Marcus, On ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 27, 2007
I vaguely recall, I believe, it was Bill Rewey who told me that someone oncebuilt a Pietenpol wing using aluminum spars. When it flew it was difficult to control because aileron deflection caused the wing to warp. Just a bit of "food for thought". Roman Bukolt NX20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum Wing? > <ghans@cable-lynx.net> > > Perhaps 15 years ago, I built a sample Pietenpol wing rib from .020" 2024 > T3 aluminum alloy angles as a design study. It was relatively easy to > fabricate, and took less time than making a standard Pietenpol rib. I > never pursued the concept and gave it to a friend who still has it. > > The plan was to use wooden spars with aluminum ribs, leading edge skin and > trailing edge in much the same way the wings of a Cub, Taylorcraft or > Aeronca were built. It was felt that some weight could be saved by doing > so. In any case, I would like to see someone try this approach; it won't > be me because, as BHP used to say, "I've had too many birthdays!". > > If one could find extruded aluminum spars similar to those used on Piper > airplanes, an all-metal wing structure could be had (fabric-covered, of > course). Using blank Cub type spar extrusions would require changing the > airfoil section, and this likely wouldn't be acceptable to Pietenpol > lovers (myself included). I don't know if any weight could be saved by > using metal spars, somebody out there will likely check this out. > > It would be virtually impossible to save weight in the "tail feathers" by > going to metal. The wooden empennage is just about as light as it is > possible to make it, and there is no advantage in abandoning the standard > wooden version. I built a steel tubing fuselage years ago and sold it to a > fellow who finished the airplane. The tail surfaces were of steel tubing > with light steel channel ribs. While the basic fuselage structure was > lighter than the wooden one, there wasn't much difference by the time the > seat supports, brackets for controls, etc. were added. Nevertheless, the > completed airplane flew well and its empty weight was about average for > the type. > > I don't think it would be inappropriate for someone to design an all-metal > wing structure, provided the appearance of the Pietenpol airplane isn't > compromised too much. An alternative to scarce and expensive aircraft > quality spruce would be beneficial, in my humble opinion. > > Go for it! > > Graham Hansen [Pietenpol CF-AUN (wood structure) in > Alberta, Canada] > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sury" <jimsury(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: Magneto tools
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Thanks John I've been lookin for that tool for some time. Never used this company before. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John B Franklin Jr" <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto tools > > > Jim, > > Sacramento Sky Ranch has several tools for working on mags including a > T150, here's the link: > > http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Magneto_tools_52.html > > See you Saturday! > > John F. > > > ________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Shawn Wolk" <shawnwolk(at)can.rogers.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode
Date: Mar 27, 2007
I really don't know if it'll ever air in the USA. You realize that Vimy was before the US entered the war. So its not part of US history. The History Television channel in Canada is owned by a company in Georgia. So I would imagine that if enough people sent an email to them they might show it in the US. On another note. it was great to finally see the show in its finished product. The scene of the camera/spotter getting in was quite funny in real life. The last time we talked about it. He (Capt. Roeder, Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry) and myself joking that the director wasn't going to cut that scene. He really didn't want his ass broadcast on National Television. Once I trained him on how to get in. It was much easier the second time. When they were looking for an appropriate aircraft to use. It was very hard to find any WW1 aircraft in actual flying condition that could be available in the prairies in November. In the actual battle, an Airo DH2 would have been spotting. But I don't believe any are flying in the world. There is one at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa and apparently at a museum in London. For the majority of the public. The Pietenpol looks the part quite well. The entire process of being involved in the production was both educational and enlightening. There are only 2 Canadian WW1 veterans still alive. (106 & 107 years old) And its films like this that will make us remember the monumental victory and great sacrifice of these young men. Fighting so far away from home. 'Lest we forget' ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Maybe there is a limit to the size of wing that can be built using aluminum spars.I know they use total metal wings on the Citabria at our field for pulling the gliders up and there hasn't been any problems with those wings as far as I know. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baileys" <baileys(at)ktis.net>
Subject: The last Pietenpol? was aluminum wing
Date: Mar 28, 2007
IMHO There is no doubt the Mr. Pietenpol was a genius, he was also a very inovative person. One wonders what is opinion would be on a discussion like this. That said, one must respect the opinions of those who hold great affection for the orginial Piet design. It is a true classic. On the other hand, It would be nice to see a modern version of the Piet emerge that embodied the same characteristics as the orginial. Maybe it should be called the Un-Piet. The GN-1 was a step in that direction, but it too is getting a little "long in the tooth." Piper Cub landing gears are pretty hard to find. The cost of certified a/c spruce has gone completely off the chart. Maybe the best thing would be to have a two groups of Pietenpol fans; one for the tradtionlist and one for the experimentors?? Both under the same association, of course. IMHO We had better stay at least somewhat united, in our current political climate in a few years it may be illegal to own a private airplane. Between the environmentalists, the airlines, the FAA and the legal community it will be almost a miracle if the small VFR only aircraft will even exsist. Also the EAA has all but abandoned the orginal core group so there is not likely to be much help for the Piet from them. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: perfect editorial comment
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I love this line from Dan H. Some guys have A.D.D. and want to analyze every aspect of construction to death, thereby extending an already long, arduous process and making it into an impossible one. Prediction: These same guys will never finish and fly. The airplane is already fully designed and engineered- It was all done by a guy named Bernard Pietenpol. By the way, Dan's plane is on the gear, his wings and tailfeathers are done and it looks very clean. I notice the same trend when out at the airport working on the plane or getting ready to fly. Some guys like to come up and suggest 15 different ways I could be changing my oil instead of actually doing something. They like to hear themselves talk I think. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: ????????? Aluminum Wing, Surely you Jest ?????????
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Talk about prejudice! As far away as possible from the real Pietenpol builders?? Pietenpols are one of the most diversely built airplanes there are. More variety of engines have been put in Pete's than just about any airplane in existence. George Read's Piet/Jenny was heavily modded and it flew beautiful, I know because I had the pleasure of flying it. Maybe we should consider BP a sinner since he was ALWAYS modding his planes beyond the original design?! If BP was still with us I'm sure he would approve of the modding and experimentation of some builders with his planes, since he was one himself! I'm normally lurking here quietly but, sometimes I feel the need to speak up. Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Dumay Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: ????????? Aluminum Wing, Surely you Jest ????????? Why would you, or any one else even consider an Aluminum Wing for a Pietenpol? A Pietenpol is a Pietenpol Aluminum is great, great for some other type and purpose. To inflict such an idea upon a nostalgic design, and a bit of Aviation History is outright wrong. Lets make sure if one is built, that its ramped as far away as possible from the real Pietenpol builders. Cloth and wood, is what makes a Pietenpol as great as it is. No offense intended. LOL Captain Marcus, On <http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475> Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: The last Pietenpol? was aluminum wing
Date: Mar 28, 2007
If the Volks Plane was available with tandem seating it would be a good choice for a "modern" piet substitute. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of baileys Sent: March 28, 2007 8:11 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: The last Pietenpol? was aluminum wing IMHO There is no doubt the Mr. Pietenpol was a genius, he was also a very inovative person. One wonders what is opinion would be on a discussion like this. That said, one must respect the opinions of those who hold great affection for the orginial Piet design. It is a true classic. On the other hand, It would be nice to see a modern version of the Piet emerge that embodied the same characteristics as the orginial. Maybe it should be called the Un-Piet. The GN-1 was a step in that direction, but it too is getting a little "long in the tooth." Piper Cub landing gears are pretty hard to find. The cost of certified a/c spruce has gone completely off the chart. Maybe the best thing would be to have a two groups of Pietenpol fans; one for the tradtionlist and one for the experimentors?? Both under the same association, of course. IMHO We had better stay at least somewhat united, in our current political climate in a few years it may be illegal to own a private airplane. Between the environmentalists, the airlines, the FAA and the legal community it will be almost a miracle if the small VFR only aircraft will even exsist. Also the EAA has all but abandoned the orginal core group so there is not likely to be much help for the Piet from them. Just the musings of an old fool, Bob B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: Re: alum wing
Dick, Excuse my butting in on your mail. Have a builder here in Shreveport who I called when I read your post because he is building a Volmer. I told him of the proposal to try and build a fuse at SNF. He is very interested and will probably attend. Name is: Chris Erickson 318 7974321 OFF 8615005 RES _glider1(at)msn.com_ (mailto:glider1(at)msn.com) He would be interested in a Volmer contact Corky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: alum wing
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Thanks Corky I have been looking for other builders, there arent many. I will call him. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alum wing Dick, Excuse my butting in on your mail. Have a builder here in Shreveport who I called when I read your post because he is building a Volmer. I told him of the proposal to try and build a fuse at SNF. He is very interested and will probably attend. Name is: Chris Erickson 318 7974321 OFF 8615005 RES glider1(at)msn.com He would be interested in a Volmer contact Corky ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL now offersle="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000339" target="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: alum wing
From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Hello Jack, I've been lurking here for a while. Downloaded the archives and have been reading through it so I don't re-ask questions. Bought the EAA book on building with wood and read that. Bought WW's Corvair conversion manual and read that. Bought all 4 Tony Bingelis books and am in the process of reading them. I'm a responsible middle aged engineering manager with a wife, two kids, blah, blah who wants to build a plane and do it right. Everything I've read or heard indicates that climb performance is going to be directly related to the power to weight ratio. So as Tony Bingelis recommends I'm trying to "think light", "build light". My question was in regards to a "standard" aluminum wing, nothing strange, unique or high tech. I've heard they are lighter than wood. I simply asked if anyone had any real world data on that with an AirCamper. Seemed prudent to see if "lighter" means 8 oz, or 15 lbs. Hardly think that means I "need my head examined". Gene BTW: I am also considering building a Sonex, Zenith 601, or FFP Celebrity. My 15 year old daughter is lobbying for the AirCamper or Celebrity. I'm concerned the Celebrity is probably too complicated for a first aircraft project. I'm still trying to weigh the plusses and minuses of the others. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103456#103456 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment
From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Wow, I'm sorry I asked anything. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103466#103466 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil"
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Hi Gene Do not get upset. I have been lurking on this list for over a year. I'm on here because perhaps one day I will build a Pietenpol. I will not be afraid to modify as I see fit. I want to add all the lightness I can. Its my butt after all. Some people seem to think the plans were carved in stone and handed down from a mountain and to change the slighest think will result or should result in death. As a nation we have seemed to become very polarized. If you do not believe what I do you are evil and stupid. I think the world would be a very boring place if we all thought the same and drove the same kind of car and built the same kind of airplane. This list is great, the information is fantastic and the ultimate end should be to have fun doing what you enjoy. I would like to hear more about the "new airfoil" Steve in Maine >From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>. >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: perfect editorial comment >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:25:21 -0700 > > >Wow, I'm sorry I asked anything. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103466#103466 > > _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Pietenpol used in TV eposode
Maybe on History International channel. I really don't know if it'll ever air in the USA. You realize that Vimy > was before the US entered the war. So its not part of US history. The > History Television channel in Canada is owned by a company in Georgia. So I > would imagine that if enough people sent an email to them they might show it > in the US. > > > *===================================== > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: be creative----it is allowed in our country, the USA
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I hope that everyone enjoys all this going back and forth because this is what freedom is all about in the United States of America and for one to jab another and say "you're wasting your time" or " go for it---we would love a metal spar" is WAYYYYY better than pussyfotting around like everyone is trying to force us to do in becoming politically correct. We don't have to agree on what airfoil to use---we can say BS, or YES, or thumbs up or down and here is why. This list is more USA than the USA is anymore. The GN-1/ Piet issue comes up from time to time and I've flown a GN-1 and a Piet and they BOTH fly nice ! There are lots of little differences but in America YOU CHOOSE ! Yippppie ! They don't even allow homebuilt aircraft in most countries let alone let you use some 75 year old auto engine in them ! We are really fortunate to be able to spout off like this and not it censored. Keep up the great posts and debates and build whatever kind of wing or plane you want and modify to your hearts content ! Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: be creative----it is allowed in our country, the USA
Right on Mikey. Rick in CO On 3/28/07, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote: > > > I hope that everyone enjoys all this going back and forth because this is > what freedom is all about in the United States > of America and for one to jab another and say "you're wasting your time" > or " go for it---we would love a metal spar" is > WAYYYYY better than pussyfotting around like everyone is trying to force > us to do in becoming politically correct. We don't > have to agree on what airfoil to use---we can say BS, or YES, or thumbs up > or down and here is why. This list is more USA > than the USA is anymore. The GN-1/ Piet issue comes up from time to > time and I've flown a GN-1 and a Piet and they BOTH > fly nice ! There are lots of little differences but in America YOU > CHOOSE ! Yippppie ! They don't even allow homebuilt > aircraft in most countries let alone let you use some 75 year old auto > engine in them ! We are really fortunate to be able to > spout off like this and not it censored. Keep up the great posts and > debates and build whatever kind of wing or plane you want > and modify to your hearts content ! > > Mike C. in Ohio > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IFR Model A Smoke System
You could put some worn out piston rings in it at overhaul. Ha ha just kidding Shad Guys, Could somebody please dream up a method of attaching a smoke system on a model A? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. --------------------------------- AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuselage gussets
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Today I was looking through different Pietenpol Builder's Logs on the mykitplane.com website, and noticed that one builder (John Recine, who I believe is active on this list) seems to have missed a very important detail. When building the fuselage sides, the plywood gussets have to be applied to BOTH sides of the truss BEFORE joining the sides together. >From the picture here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=14 7 0&PlaneID=569&FName=John&LName=Recine&PlaneName=Air%20Camper it seems that the gussets have not been installed. It might not be immediately obvious from the plans, but look at the small detail in the attached photo (gusset note.JPG). Also see the photo borrowed from the Pietenpol family website (bhp fuse.JPG), and finally, take a look at Peter Johnson's photo (Peter's fuse.JPG). I included Peter's picture just because it's so nice and clear - he has a great website: http://www.cpc-world.com/ I draw attention to this because this is an important detail. In these wooden truss constructions, the gussets carry almost all of the load. To demonstrate the value of gussets, try building a wing rib without those piddly little 1/16" thick gussets, and compare it to a rib built with gussets on one side, and then compare it to a rib built with gussets on both sides - the way it's supposed to be built. The difference will be incredible. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: LWATCDR <lwatcdr(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ????????? Aluminum Wing, Surely you Jest ?????????
I know that some people are using an Aluminum wet wing on the Wittman Tailwind. An Aluminum wing could be lighter than a wood wing. They do call it experimental for a reason. Frankly I am tempted to try use a VW TDI in mine when I get around to building it. On 3/27/07, Marc Dumay wrote: > > Why would you, or any one else even consider an Aluminum Wing for a > Pietenpol? > A Pietenpol is a Pietenpol > > Aluminum is great, great for some other type and purpose. > To inflict such an idea upon a nostalgic design, and a bit of Aviation > History is outright wrong. > > Lets make sure if one is built, that its ramped as far away as possible > from the real Pietenpol builders. > > Cloth and wood, is what makes a Pietenpol as great as it is. > > No offense intended. LOL > > Captain Marcus, On > > > [image: Add FUN to your email - CLICK HERE!]<http://www.incredimail.com/index.asp?id=54475> > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil"
Steve, Most people who are thinking of building Pietenpols some how get the feeling that Bernard Pietenpol's plans are an evil plot. Or a pinch in your side from an older brother at dinner. Or the Joker from Batman trying to lead you astray. My advise is to be thankful that his plans are available, That he built many prototypes to perfect the lightest, strongest, best designed plane he could. Don't Dis the man. Wrong to want to build the plane to plans for the purpose of changing stuff,,,,,and alot of people do. Don't try to reinvent the wheel, or the phonograph. If you don't like the Pietenpol,,,,build something else. A fact,,,If you change stuff, you'll make it heavier,,,guarenteed Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil" > > > Hi Gene > > Do not get upset. I have been lurking on this list for over a year. I'm > on here because perhaps one day I will build a Pietenpol. I will not be > afraid to modify as I see fit. I want to add all the lightness I can. > Its my butt after all. > > Some people seem to think the plans were carved in stone and handed down > from a mountain and to change the slighest think will result or should > result in death. > > As a nation we have seemed to become very polarized. If you do not > believe what I do you are evil and stupid. I think the world would be a > very boring place if we all thought the same and drove the same kind of > car and built the same kind of airplane. > > This list is great, the information is fantastic and the ultimate end > should be to have fun doing what you enjoy. > > I would like to hear more about the "new airfoil" > > Steve in Maine > >>From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>. >>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: perfect editorial comment >>Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:25:21 -0700 >> >> >>Wow, I'm sorry I asked anything. >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103466#103466 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: alum wing
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
You missed my point, Gene. If you want to build a conventional stressed skin aluminum wing, similar to the RV-10 I'm currently building, you will find it to be boring and tedious compared to the woodworking for a conventional Pietenpol. THAT's why you would need your head examined. I just find after building a Pietenpol, that building a sheetmetal aircraft is not as much fun. If you are talking about an aluminum frame, such as a Piper J-3 used, I doubt it would save much weight. Maybe a little, but most of the weight of a Pietenpol wing I find to be in the fabric and paint. My wing panels weighed 40 lbs each (3 piece wing) before covering. After covering and painting they weighed close to 70 lbs each. You can do more to save weight by using the light weight fabric, and minimal paint (leave it silver). Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Research & Development Cardinal Health, Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GeneWeber Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: alum wing Hello Jack, I've been lurking here for a while. Downloaded the archives and have been reading through it so I don't re-ask questions. Bought the EAA book on building with wood and read that. Bought WW's Corvair conversion manual and read that. Bought all 4 Tony Bingelis books and am in the process of reading them. I'm a responsible middle aged engineering manager with a wife, two kids, blah, blah who wants to build a plane and do it right. Everything I've read or heard indicates that climb performance is going to be directly related to the power to weight ratio. So as Tony Bingelis recommends I'm trying to "think light", "build light". My question was in regards to a "standard" aluminum wing, nothing strange, unique or high tech. I've heard they are lighter than wood. I simply asked if anyone had any real world data on that with an AirCamper. Seemed prudent to see if "lighter" means 8 oz, or 15 lbs. Hardly think that means I "need my head examined". Gene BTW: I am also considering building a Sonex, Zenith 601, or FFP Celebrity. My 15 year old daughter is lobbying for the AirCamper or Celebrity. I'm concerned the Celebrity is probably too complicated for a first aircraft project. I'm still trying to weigh the plusses and minuses of the others. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103456#103456 _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: electroplated
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Not quite electroplated, and it was gold, I happen to know the story well. It was translated and published in 1830, I could send you a copy DJ Don't fall for it DJ.....read the last verse in Revelation before you jump onto that bandwagon ! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: make that
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Revelation 22:18.......it is really clear. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuselage gussets
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Let me correct one statement I just made. What I wrote was: "In these wooden truss constructions, the gussets carry almost all of the load." What I meant to say was that the gussets provide almost all of the strength at the joints. The loads are carried through the members of the truss - but without strong joints, the structure will fail at the joints. However, the main point remains... Make sure you use the gussets. Sorry for the mix-up. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: make that
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
Mike C, I'll bow out (offline, if interested) on this topic since I don' t want to kill a fun thread. I don't think piet folks particularly want (or intended) this turning religious, but I couldn't resist the fun-poking inference to the Mormon faith. Steve (quite comfortable with Rev 22:18 too) E steve(at)byu.edu From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: make that Revelation 22:18.......it is really clear. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil"
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Steve Eldredge" <steve(at)byu.edu>
There you have it. I too work with a lot of LDS, (about 30,000 of them J BYU is a private LDS university). Interestingly, about 5 years ago I got a call from a fellow piet builder, and lister who joined the LDS church and wanted to let me know that it was partly due to the friendliness of this list that influenced his interest in learning more about it. For those of you who are wondering what this has to do with Pietenpols, here is a little history: I started building my piet while serving as an LDS bishop, and started this list on a BYU listserve in 1995. Although I'm just a participant of the list now, as the moderator in the early days, I stressed good relations, no swearing, and no flaming. I unsubscribed any violators so the piet list would remain user friendly, and clean. I am very pleased that these qualities have endured, and the reputation of the list is still a good one. Over the years I have enjoyed meeting many members of the list at Brodhead, and visiting virtually with many others. May the online piet community continue timeless, like the Pietenpol Aircamper itself has for so many decades... (now thanks to Matt Dralle's work) Best regards to all, Steve E. PS, For the record, I thought it was a witty quip. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: alum wing
Or using only latex paint without silver? Rick > > > If you are talking about an aluminum frame, such as a Piper J-3 used, I > doubt it would save much weight. Maybe a little, but most of the weight of > a Pietenpol wing I find to be in the fabric and paint. My wing panels > weighed 40 lbs each (3 piece wing) before covering. After covering and > painting they weighed close to 70 lbs each. You can do more to save weig ht > by using the light weight fabric, and minimal paint (leave it silver). > > Jack Phillips, PE > Sr. Manager, Disposable Research & Development > Cardinal Health, Clinical Technologies & Services > Creedmoor, NC > (919) 528-5212 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GeneWeber > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:52 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: alum wing > > > Hello Jack, > > I've been lurking here for a while. Downloaded the archives and have been > reading through it so I don't re-ask questions. Bought the EAA book on > building with wood and read that. Bought WW's Corvair conversion manual a nd > read that. Bought all 4 Tony Bingelis books and am in the process of read ing > them. I'm a responsible middle aged engineering manager with a wife, two > kids, blah, blah who wants to build a plane and do it right. Ev erything > I've read or heard indicates that climb performance is going to be direct ly > related to the power to weight ratio. So as Tony Bingelis recommends I'm > trying to "think light", "build light". My question was in regards to a > "standard" aluminum wing, nothing strange, unique or high tech. I've hear d > they are lighter than wood. I simply asked if anyone had any real world d ata > on that with an AirCamper. Seemed prudent to see if "lighter" means 8 oz, or > 15 lbs. Hardly think that means I "need my head examined". > > Gene > > BTW: I am also considering building a Sonex, Zenith 601, or FFP Celebrity . > My 15 year old daughter is lobbying for the AirCamper or Celebrity. I'm > concerned the Celebrity is probably too complicated for a first aircraft > project. I'm still trying to weigh the plusses and minuses of the others. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103456#103456 > > > _________________________________________________ > > =========== =========== =========== > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil"
Date: Mar 28, 2007
I am a member of many forums and email lists. Quite a few of them get downright nasty. I've never seen anything near that level on this Piet list and I've been on here for about 5 years I guess. In that 5 years on other forums I've seen guys get so fumed that they were ready to fistfight... and I'm not exaggerating. this list is the shizzle. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Eldredge To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:19 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil" There you have it. I too work with a lot of LDS, (about 30,000 of them J BYU is a private LDS university). Interestingly, about 5 years ago I got a call from a fellow piet builder, and lister who joined the LDS church and wanted to let me know that it was partly due to the friendliness of this list that influenced his interest in learning more about it. For those of you who are wondering what this has to do with Pietenpols, here is a little history: I started building my piet while serving as an LDS bishop, and started this list on a BYU listserve in 1995. Although I'm just a participant of the list now, as the moderator in the early days, I stressed good relations, no swearing, and no flaming. I unsubscribed any violators so the piet list would remain user friendly, and clean. I am very pleased that these qualities have endured, and the reputation of the list is still a good one. Over the years I have enjoyed meeting many members of the list at Brodhead, and visiting virtually with many others. May the online piet community continue timeless, like the Pietenpol Aircamper itself has for so many decades. (now thanks to Matt Dralle's work) Best regards to all, Steve E. PS, For the record, I thought it was a witty quip. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirk, Bruce" <bkirk(at)yccd.edu>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Pieter's check out Wag-Aero for aluminium spar extrusions. They have them for their Wag-Aero designs. B.Kirk "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> wrote: ><ghans@cable-lynx.net> > > Perhaps 15 years ago, I built a sample Pietenpol wing >rib from .020" 2024 T3 aluminum alloy angles as a design >study. It was relatively easy to fabricate, and took less >time than making a standard Pietenpol rib. I never >pursued the concept and gave it to a friend who still has >it. > > The plan was to use wooden spars with aluminum ribs, >leading edge skin and trailing edge in much the same way >the wings of a Cub, Taylorcraft or Aeronca were built. It >was felt that some weight could be saved by doing so. In >any case, I would like to see someone try this approach; >it won't be me because, as BHP used to say, "I've had too >many birthdays!". > > If one could find extruded aluminum spars similar to >those used on Piper airplanes, an all-metal wing >structure could be had (fabric-covered, of course). Using >blank Cub type spar extrusions would require changing the >airfoil section, and this likely wouldn't be acceptable >to Pietenpol lovers (myself included). I don't know if >any weight could be saved by using metal spars, somebody >out there will likely check this out. > > It would be virtually impossible to save weight in the >"tail feathers" by going to metal. The wooden empennage >is just about as light as it is possible to make it, and >there is no advantage in abandoning the standard wooden >version. I built a steel tubing fuselage years ago and >sold it to a fellow who finished the airplane. The tail >surfaces were of steel tubing with light steel channel >ribs. While the basic fuselage structure was lighter than >the wooden one, there wasn't much difference by the time >the seat supports, brackets for controls, etc. were >added. Nevertheless, the completed airplane flew well and >its empty weight was about average for the type. > > I don't think it would be inappropriate for someone to >design an all-metal wing structure, provided the >appearance of the Pietenpol airplane isn't compromised >too much. An alternative to scarce and expensive aircraft >quality spruce would be beneficial, in my humble opinion. > > Go for it! > > Graham Hansen [Pietenpol CF-AUN (wood >structure) in Alberta, Canada] > > > > > >page, >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >Forums! > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage gussets
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Actually not a missed detail but an intentional build step. I really saw nothing in the instructions that required the gussets to be applied before joining the sides. I opted to stress the wood in the shaping jig then apply the gussets, reason being is; why not support a bent or stressed member, with an unstressed gusset and use it a a counter stress measure. Combined with rationale of an unstressed gusset will add more strength and stability to a stressed joint. I a used the process as a quality control measure to stress unsupported joints to identify any and all joints that may need additional attention. The ungussettedjoints gave me a chance to keep an eye on all the joints and to refill or repair any joints that may appear to not handle the bending stress well. I viewed the early gusset installation while flat and in the side jig cover all the joints and do not permit inspection during the bending stress tempering of the joints that occurs during the bending process. I wanted to be sure I could see all the joint under basic bending stress of joining them before enclosing them in the gusset plates. The gusset plates were deliberately omitted in the flat jig configuration to allow for a good visual inspection under stress and quality control measure. Gussets will be installed once I am convinced the raw joints are as good as can be and capable of handling the bending pressures of the joining process. Which, when added while the frames is under bending stress should be more effective in supporting the structure. Thanks for the pick up on that crucial construction element, that one was planned. This being my first airplane I am certain to make other not so glaring decisions that will most certainly require correction so I do appreciate any and all constructive criticisms. With your help and watchful eye I will build a safe Piet. Thanks all John Recine -----Original Message----- From: eng(at)canadianrogers.com Sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 5:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage gussets Today I was looking through different Pietenpol Builder's Logs on the mykitplane.com website, and noticed that one builder (John Recine, who I believe is active on this list) seems to have missed a very important detail. When building the fuselage sides, the plywood gussets have to be applied to BOTH sides of the truss BEFORE joining the sides together. From the picture here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1470&PlaneID=569&FName=John&LName=Recine&PlaneName=Air%20Camper it seems that the gussets have not been installed. It might not be immediately obvious from the plans, but look at the small detail in the attached photo (gusset note.JPG). Also see the photo borrowed from the Pietenpol family website (bhp fuse.JPG), and finally, take a look at Peter Johnson's photo (Peter's fuse.JPG). I included Peter's picture just because it's so nice and clear - he has a great website: http://www.cpc-world.com/ I draw attention to this because this is an important detail. In these wooden truss constructions, the gussets carry almost all of the load. To demonstrate the value of gussets, try building a wing rib without those piddly little 1/16" thick gussets, and compare it to a rib built with gussets on one side, and then compare it to a rib built with gussets on both sides - the way it's supposed to be built. The difference will be incredible. Bill C. [Image Removed] [Image Removed] [Image Removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil"
Good point DJ, it says a lot about the type of person that aspires to build something like a Piet compared to the possibly more aggressive/competitive/ego involved types that wouldn't be seen in somethin g as un-fast/un-F16ish/un-streamlined as a Piet. Apologies to any Harmon Rocket builders in the audience. Rick On 3/28/07, DJ Vegh wrote: > > I am a member of many forums and email lists. Quite a few of them get > downright nasty. I've never seen anything near that level on this Piet l ist > and I've been on here for about 5 years I guess. In that 5 years on othe r > forums I've seen guys get so fumed that they were ready to fistfight... a nd > I'm not exaggerating. > > this list is the shizzle. > > DJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Steve Eldredge > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 28, 2007 4:19 PM > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil " > > There you have it. I too work with a lot of LDS, (about 30,000 of them J > BYU is a private LDS university). > > > Interestingly, about 5 years ago I got a call from a fellow piet builder, > and lister who joined the LDS church and wanted to let me know that it wa s > partly due to the friendliness of this list that influenced his interest in > learning more about it. > > > For those of you who are wondering what this has to do with Pietenpols, > here is a little history: > > > I started building my piet while serving as an LDS bishop, and started > this list on a BYU listserve in 1995. Although I'm just a participant o f > the list now, as the moderator in the early days, I stressed good relatio ns, > no swearing, and no flaming. I unsubscribed any violators so the piet li st > would remain user friendly, and clean. I am very pleased that these > qualities have endured, and the reputation of the list is still a good > one. Over the years I have enjoyed meeting many members of the list at > Brodhead, and visiting virtually with many others. May the online piet > community continue timeless, like the Pietenpol Aircamper itself has for so > many decades=85 (now thanks to Matt Dralle's work) > > > Best regards to all, > > > Steve E. > > > PS, For the record, I thought it was a witty quip. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > =========== w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== =========== > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing?
Now we're talkin. :-) If you did put 'aluminium' spars in there, Captain Nemo, who would ever have to know? Clif "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right!" ~ Henry Ford > > How about Frankencamper? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: How a Magneto works : e-gap
In a message dated 3/27/2007 4:50:04 PM Central Daylight Time, jimsury(at)consolidated.net writes: Chuck Are you talking about a T-150 tool for checking the e-gap? I've been looking to purchase one of them tools and was not able to find out who sells them. Checked with Aircraft Spruce and they wanted to sell me the electronic tool for setting the timing. Would appreciate if you have an address of the supplier. I don't think the e-gap setting is gonna imporve the static rpm. I have one mag that I broke the case on and had to replace it. So now I need to set the e-gap. What is happening to me is that the mag is not up to full change whe n it fires. On mag check the engine runs rough on that mag. Not knowing how to set it I just let the points open just as soon as they could which isn't rig ht. Thanks Jim Sury Jim, Yes, the T-150 tool is the one I am talking about. My curiosity was how many other folks actually set the e-gap. I have a need for the tool, becaus e after about 300 hrs of service, I removed the points in the Left mag, to hav e a close look at if there was any burning on the contacts...there was none. Here's how a magneto works: A strong magnet mounted on the shaft, spins within a two part coil, that has windings that are electrically connected on one leg of the circuit, via the points. As the magnet swaps ends within the two part coil, a current ra ces back and forth in a millisecond, between these two windings. The faster it spins, the higher the current. The purpose of the points is to interrupt t his current flow when it is at it's peak...which is called the 'e-gap'. The e stands for 'energy'. You DO NOT adjust the points to a specific gap, you DO adjust the points to crack open at the very instant when this current is at it's peak. It is a very narrow margin, and if it is more than 5 =BA off, it will have a great impact on how much current and voltage goes to the plugs. When the points crack open, the current will flow to the path of least resistance, which is through the distributor and wires, to the spark plugs. The purpose of the Impulse Coupling is two fold: 1) it catches on a cog, and collects Sprin g energy and when it releases it the timing is retarded for easier engine star t ; 2) it spins the magnet at a much higher rate. Once the engine is running, centrifugal force acts upon two spring loaded weights, which does not allow the cogs to catch. When you shut down the engine, as it slows down to below abo ut 100 RPM (maybe 200 rpm) or so, you hear the cogs catching, and spinning the magnet at the faster rate. Now...All I need is a T-150 tool Chuck G. NX770CG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 28, 2007
Subject: Re: Magneto tools
In a message dated 3/27/2007 8:23:55 PM Central Daylight Time, jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com writes: Jim, Sacramento Sky Ranch has several tools for working on mags including a T150, here's the link: http://www.sacskyranch.com/acatalog/Sacramento_Sky_Ranch_Magneto_tools_52.html See you Saturday! John F. Thanks, John !! That's what I was looking for, too !! Chuck G. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing? Re: Apology
Date: Mar 28, 2007
This runs a little long, so be forewarned. It isn't a diatribe, but an apology. Here in the United States, FARs were long ago written that enabled licensing and standardization of "Experimental" Aircraft. The purpose was, and remains officially, for "education." In the intervening years, the rules have been used to justify a lot of people building airplanes that achieve something that they otherwise could not achieve, whether it is performance, a replica of an historic airplane, or having any airplane at all. Other people have used the rules to become educated. (Had the rules existed in the 1920s, Bernard Pietenpol would have achieved his phenomenal self-education in aircraft design within them.) Folks on this list come from each of those motivations. Some, call them "type A", want to have a replica of a great series of airplanes, the Pietenpol Aircamper. Type A's consider that only very accurate replicas can legitimately bear the name of the original. These aircraft only have materials and engines (Model A, Corvair) and airfoils that were originally experimented with by BHP himself. The most extreme examples use casein glue and muslin fabric. Others, type B, want to have an airplane that looks mostly like a famous original, yet benefits from part of the 80 years of advances in airplanes that have happened since Bernard started flying off his farm. Type B's use somewhat more modern engines, Continental, Franklin, etc. and use epoxy, Dacron, some even having electrical systems and tail wheels. Mike C, Corky, Jack Phillips, and others are prime examples of fine type B airplane builders who didn't build exact replicas of Bernard's original. I try to fall somewhere between type A and type B. Still others, type C, are on this list for an education. They want to learn what it is like to actually build an airplane, and the Pietenpol looks like a nice, simple, place to start. Type C's also want to relive some of what Bernard did in his experimenting and building days. Bernard certainly didn' t build his original airplanes exactly to someone else's plans; he had to educate himself as he went along. Type C's want to earn some of that education as well. In 80 years, aviation has advanced far, far, beyond what any of the early experimenters saw, or probably imagined. Airframe materials have gone from bamboo and paper to spruce and muslin to aluminum alloys to composites. Engines have gone from unreliable motorcycle derivatives with a power-to-weight ratio of .05 to turbines that achieve ratios of nearly 20 and have actual TBO's measured in decades. The achievable private airplane has evolved from a Piet capable of 80 mph to a turbine powered Lancair that can do way over 300. Type C listers want to learn a little of what drove all that progress. They want the joy of changing this or that and learning how everything else changes. They want to know what drove changing biplanes to monoplanes, and strutted high wings to cantilevered low wings. Type C members of this list actually achieve what was intended with the original Experimental Aircraft FAR's: education and they get much closer to the essence of Bernard Pietenpol than any of the rest of us. I hope that those type C's I've chided about building a Piet in order to build a Piet will accept this as an apology. You are who I would aspire to be if I had the courage. Mike Hardaway ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing? Re: Apology
From: "GeneWeber" <em2(at)vzavenue.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Hi Mike, Nice post, thanks. Honestly, the worst possible thing that can happen when you post a question on a forum is that no one finds it interesting enough to respond. While at one point I was a bit surprised by the seemingly negative tone of some of the responses, I genuinely appreciate that so many people shared an opinion. I'd love to see some AirCampers. On the Corvair website there was mention of a "Corvair Wings and Wheels fly-in at Alliance, Ohio" on June 8th, 9th, and 10th. Not close, but doable for me. Is this something that some of you might attend? Last, I really love some features of this forum like the down-loadable archives. But I'm curious what causes the divergence of threads? Many times when I see Mike Cuy respond for example, his response is a new thread. I'm using the web forum at http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7 not email. Perhaps if people are using email and give their reply a new subject it creates a new thread? This question spawned about 10 threads which made it a little tough to follow. Best Regards, Gene Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=103621#103621 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing? Re: Apology
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Really what we are supposed to do is delete all the other stuff and just add our comment or direction.It also saves banwidth.Like what I am doing here ,I will delete all below,it will make it easier to follow. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: new subject lines
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Gene-- I agree (and that is why I practice) and do change the subject line to match more of what I'm posting but many of us don't do that which reduces the effectiveness of the list somewhat. Some have encouraged us as a group to update or change the subject line but lots of times it doesn't get done and you can drag the same dead horse subject line along with some wonderful new bodies of text with great info that isn't reflected in the subject line. By the way, this list is quite friendly and enjoyable and the only other list I am on is just the same but it is an all wood airplane group too. I suspect (from those who are on those other lists telling me) that there is a spoiled brat, prima donna attitude from some of the more lofty and pricey homebuilt list$. I'd have a hard time fitting in with people like that. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing? Re: Apology
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Well, "BikeMike", I propose that you add a fourth category... the "Type D" person. I'm one of those. Type D people take the work that a Type A, B, or C builder has done and then go fly it! Call it "cutting in line", "taking a shortcut to success", or "cheating" ;o) I'll tell you what though- building these airplanes is what keeps my life fun and interesting, and flying them is like actually going to heaven instead of just dreaming about it. Very, very rewarding. I like to tweak this and that, customize a few things, think about improvements and mods, and that's part of the educational process of experimental aircraft. And perhaps to put all of this aluminum wing and alternative engine stuff in perspective (but not to throw me out of my comfortable Type D world of building on someone else's success), I would remind folks that "a life lived without risks is not worth living". That may end up being my epitaph, but I'll have a smile on my face when I go down. Low 'n' slow forever! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps find all the local information you need, right when you need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: New Airfoil news?
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Hi So............ do any of you B, C, ..........D types have any news on the "new airfoil". Thanks and Best regards Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ Live Search Maps find all the local information you need, right when you need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Subject: How a Magneto works : e-gap
Not sure if I can give a good tech explanation why but.........the mag points really don't completely close, like old distributors on cars. Old timer AP's used to use a piece of cigarette film, about 0.001", to set the points where they are almost closed, and then set the open gap using a normal point gapping set of blades. You can almost eyeball the "closed" gap. If you allow the points to come all the way closed, the mag won't have a chance to build enough spark. Experimental aircraft--- you gotta love it as a learning experience. Gordon Original Message: ----------------- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Pietenpol-List: How a Magneto works : e-gap In a message dated 3/27/2007 4:50:04 PM Central Daylight Time, jimsury(at)consolidated.net writes: Chuck Are you talking about a T-150 tool for checking the e-gap? I've been looking to purchase one of them tools and was not able to find out who sells them. Checked with Aircraft Spruce and they wanted to sell me the electronic tool for setting the timing. Would appreciate if you have an address of the supplier. I don't think the e-gap setting is gonna imporve the static rpm. I have one mag that I broke the case on and had to replace it. So now I need to set the e-gap. What is happening to me is that the mag is not up to full change when it fires. On mag check the engine runs rough on that mag. Not knowing how to set it I just let the points open just as soon as they could which isn't right. Thanks Jim Sury Jim, Yes, the T-150 tool is the one I am talking about. My curiosity was how many other folks actually set the e-gap. I have a need for the tool, because after about 300 hrs of service, I removed the points in the Left mag, to have a close look at if there was any burning on the contacts...there was none. Here's how a magneto works: A strong magnet mounted on the shaft, spins within a two part coil, that has windings that are electrically connected on one leg of the circuit, via the points. As the magnet swaps ends within the two part coil, a current races back and forth in a millisecond, between these two windings. The faster it spins, the higher the current. The purpose of the points is to interrupt this current flow when it is at it's peak...which is called the 'e-gap'. The e stands for 'energy'. You DO NOT adjust the points to a specific gap, you DO adjust the points to crack open at the very instant when this current is at it's peak. It is a very narrow margin, and if it is more than 5 off, it will have a great impact on how much current and voltage goes to the plugs. When the points crack open, the current will flow to the path of least resistance, which is through the distributor and wires, to the spark plugs. The purpose of the Impulse Coupling is two fold: 1) it catches on a cog, and collects Spring energy and when it releases it the timing is retarded for easier engine start ; 2) it spins the magnet at a much higher rate. Once the engine is running, centrifugal force acts upon two spring loaded weights, which does not allow the cogs to catch. When you shut down the engine, as it slows down to below about 100 RPM (maybe 200 rpm) or so, you hear the cogs catching, and spinning the magnet at the faster rate. Now...All I need is a T-150 tool Chuck G. NX770CG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sury" <jimsury(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: How a Magneto works : e-gap
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Chuck Thanks for the explanation Chuck. I knew that but was not able to put it into words that made any sense. Got that Mike Cuy. The T-118 pins are used to lock the mag into position when you install the mag to the engine. You are suppose to be able to put the crank at the 18 deg btdc or where ever you want it to fire and just drop the mag in and it is suppose to be in time. It gets it close but I still use the sinc. light. Low and Slow Pietenpol GN-1 Jim Sury ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: How a Magneto works : e-gap In a message dated 3/27/2007 4:50:04 PM Central Daylight Time, jimsury(at)consolidated.net writes: Chuck Are you talking about a T-150 tool for checking the e-gap? I've been looking to purchase one of them tools and was not able to find out who sells them. Checked with Aircraft Spruce and they wanted to sell me the electronic tool for setting the timing. Would appreciate if you have an address of the supplier. I don't think the e-gap setting is gonna imporve the static rpm. I have one mag that I broke the case on and had to replace it. So now I need to set the e-gap. What is happening to me is that the mag is not up to full change when it fires. On mag check the engine runs rough on that mag. Not knowing how to set it I just let the points open just as soon as they could which isn't right. Thanks Jim Sury Jim, Yes, the T-150 tool is the one I am talking about. My curiosity was how many other folks actually set the e-gap. I have a need for the tool, because after about 300 hrs of service, I removed the points in the Left mag, to have a close look at if there was any burning on the contacts...there was none. Here's how a magneto works: A strong magnet mounted on the shaft, spins within a two part coil, that has windings that are electrically connected on one leg of the circuit, via the points. As the magnet swaps ends within the two part coil, a current races back and forth in a millisecond, between these two windings. The faster it spins, the higher the current. The purpose of the points is to interrupt this current flow when it is at it's peak...which is called the 'e-gap'. The e stands for 'energy'. You DO NOT adjust the points to a specific gap, you DO adjust the points to crack open at the very instant when this current is at it's peak. It is a very narrow margin, and if it is more than 5 =BA off, it will have a great impact on how much current and voltage goes to the plugs. When the points crack open, the current will flow to the path of least resistance, which is through the distributor and wires, to the spark plugs. The purpose of the Impulse Coupling is two fold: 1) it catches on a cog, and collects Spring energy and when it releases it the timing is retarded for easier engine start ; 2) it spins the magnet at a much higher rate. Once the engine is running, centrifugal force acts upon two spring loaded weights, which does not allow the cogs to catch. When you shut down the engine, as it slows down to below about 100 RPM (maybe 200 rpm) or so, you hear the cogs catching, and spinning the magnet at the faster rate. Now...All I need is a T-150 tool Chuck G. NX770CG ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BYD(at)att.net
Subject: Aluminum wing structure
Date: Mar 29, 2007
A thought occurred to me, which is unusual so I thought Id write about it to this group. As some may know, Aerolab (in Italy) is going to produce what some would call a version of the Pietenpol named the HiCamp along with what the Fly Baby community thinks of as a two-seat Fly Baby called the LoCamp and a biplane model called the BiCamp all utilizing the same fuselage. When they brought the LoCamp to the US last year, one of the comments they received was that people wanted an aluminum wing structure instead of the wooden one they were offering so they went back and engineered one. Actually two thoughts emerged (even more rare) one, is maybe their wing could be used for those who wanted an aluminum structure for the Pietenpol (check weight) and two, their HiCamp kit might be a good choice for those who want modern materials but the old fashioned look. I might be thought of as somewhat of a purist but let me explain; if someone builds a metal Piet and calls it a metalized Pietenpol, thats fine with me. If someone experiments by putting a turbine engine on a Pietenpol thats cool. A Pietenpol with retractable gear? Call it a Pietenpol RG. But at some point, if enough changes are made, the builder should stop referring to it as a Pietenpol out of respect. For example, the Aerolab HiCamp is based on the Pietenpol and the founders were building a Pietenpol when they realized the design would make a terrific Light Sport Airplane, but they respectfully dont call it a Pietenpol. Im in total agreement with Micheal Cuy about this country and our freedom and those who feel Bernard would still be experimenting, but I think even he would call it something else as the Air Camper evolved with enough changes. Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth, but I thought someone might be interested in the aluminum wing idea. Pietenpolingly, Bill Sayre ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: LWATCDR <lwatcdr(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: perfect editorial comment "new airfoil"
I still want to know how the heck you found time to build a Piet and be a bishop. I don't have the time with just a wife, 3 dogs, and teaching the CT R 5&6 class! On 3/28/07, Steve Eldredge wrote: > > There you have it. I too work with a lot of LDS, (about 30,000 of them J > BYU is a private LDS university). > > > Interestingly, about 5 years ago I got a call from a fellow piet builder, > and lister who joined the LDS church and wanted to let me know that it wa s > partly due to the friendliness of this list that influenced his interest in > learning more about it. > > > For those of you who are wondering what this has to do with Pietenpols, > here is a little history: > > > I started building my piet while serving as an LDS bishop, and started > this list on a BYU listserve in 1995. Although I'm just a participant o f > the list now, as the moderator in the early days, I stressed good relatio ns, > no swearing, and no flaming. I unsubscribed any violators so the piet li st > would remain user friendly, and clean. I am very pleased that these > qualities have endured, and the reputation of the list is still a good > one. Over the years I have enjoyed meeting many members of the list at > Brodhead, and visiting virtually with many others. May the online piet > community continue timeless, like the Pietenpol Aircamper itself has for so > many decades=85 (now thanks to Matt Dralle's work) > > > Best regards to all, > > > Steve E. > > > PS, For the record, I thought it was a witty quip. > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Piet List vs Other Lists
In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:04:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: or rebuild an antique like a Travellaire or a Waco Jack, This is a thought provoking statement. IF a builder so decided he wanted to undertake such a project, to actually build one of the above, where would he or she obtain plans, drawings, spec or whatever. I've often wondered how long it would take to build the ribs for a Waco Taperwing. Mindbogling. It would be a worthy retirement project, if one lived long enough Back in '52 I observed a lonely UPF-7 parked on the far end of Ft Smith airport. I inquired and the FBO said I could buy it for $ 186. Some jerk came in, ground looped, damaged the lower left wing tip. Repairs were $186. The guy had never come back. Just thinking Corky ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet List vs Other Lists
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Corky, I would like to do a project like Jimmy Dean, down in Sanford, NC is doing. Jimmy (who owns a beautiful Ford Model A powered Pietenpol, that sadly needs a new fabric job) is building an essentially new Waco Ten. He bought a junk Waco and is using the old parts to make patterns for all new components. He has finished the fuselage framework, all welded up of brand new 4130 tubing, much better than the mild steel of the original. He is using the original ribs to make a jig to build all new ribs. By the time he is finished about the only original components will be the centerline and the nameplate and serial number, but that is enough in the FAA's eyes to make it a certificated airplane. I'd like to do something similar, as my "retirement project". Then take it and go barnstorming. You can't go barnstorming in a Pietenpol and charge for rides, since it is Experimental. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet List vs Other Lists In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:04:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: or rebuild an antique like a Travellaire or a Waco Jack, This is a thought provoking statement. IF a builder so decided he wanted to undertake such a project, to actually build one of the above, where would he or she obtain plans, drawings, spec or whatever. I've often wondered how long it would take to build the ribs for a Waco Taperwing. Mindbogling. It would be a worthy retirement project, if one lived long enough Back in '52 I observed a lonely UPF-7 parked on the far end of Ft Smith airport. I inquired and the FBO said I could buy it for $ 186. Some jerk came in, ground looped, damaged the lower left wing tip. Repairs were $186. The guy had never come back. Just thinking Corky _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: You guys are good ! Changing subject lines
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
This is a good group----look how easy you can tell what a guy is posting about now. Good post, Jack Phillips and part of my thoughts in my previous post were due to the things that you have conveyed to me about the other list you are on---the RV 10 list. Your post about the King Air pilot commenting to you reminded me of the pilots for the owner of the Indianapolis Colts. I landed at Goshen, Indiana on my way back from Brodhead one year and this beautiful jet pulled up nearby to the fuel pumps where I was at. The pilots came out and came right over to my plane about the same time I was walking toward (to me) this gorgeous luxury jet to admire it. We both were wishing we could fly each other's airplanes ! What a brotherhood this flying stuff can make between people who hardly know each other or have never even met. (thanks to e-mail) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: You guys are good ! Changing subject lines
While on the subject of good "understanding" group......I would like to come clean on my pietenpol (actually, a true confession since the holy day of Easter is upon us). Yes, I too was once a very large person with an anterior distal belly bulge. After years of not seeing my entire foot, I still can't see my entire foot. Therefore, my confession!.... I changed the plans of my Pietenpol making it 29" overall width tapering from the front to rear for my large build! However, I have kept most everything else the same height(with a few exceptions). So there.....I ask for your forgiveness in my deviation from the original plans. Does that make me a true pietenpol builder or am I reduced to a Change-n-Pieter Airplane Cheater?!.... Ken H Fargo, ND "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" wrote: @font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } PRE { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } This is a good group----look how easy you can tell what a guy is posting about now. Good post, Jack Phillips and part of my thoughts in my previous post were due to the things that you have conveyed to me about the other list you are on---the RV 10 list. Your post about the King Air pilot commenting to you reminded me of the pilots for the owner of the Indianapolis Colts. I landed at Goshen, Indiana on my way back from Brodhead one year and this beautiful jet pulled up nearby to the fuel pumps where I was at. The pilots came out and came right over to my plane about the same time I was walking toward (to me) this gorgeous luxury jet to admire it. We both were wishing we could fly each other's airplanes ! What a brotherhood this flying stuff can make between people who hardly know each other or have never even met. (thanks to e-mail) Mike C. --------------------------------- Get your own web address. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: How a Magneto works : e-gap
If I can just add to Chucks infro. There's a thing called dwell. Us oldtimers know it from our cars of the 60's. With a dwell meter it set the amount of time that the points were closed, in degrees of the cam shaft. Cause this was the time that the coil was charging. If the dwell wasn't right there wasn't enough power in the coil and the spark weak. The amount of time the points are closed is important and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Then you have to time it so the points open at the correct time to fire. When the points break,,,the large field in the coil collapses and you get the spark to the plug. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: How a Magneto works : e-gap In a message dated 3/27/2007 4:50:04 PM Central Daylight Time, jimsury(at)consolidated.net writes: Chuck Are you talking about a T-150 tool for checking the e-gap? I've been looking to purchase one of them tools and was not able to find out who sells them. Checked with Aircraft Spruce and they wanted to sell me the electronic tool for setting the timing. Would appreciate if you have an address of the supplier. I don't think the e-gap setting is gonna imporve the static rpm. I have one mag that I broke the case on and had to replace it. So now I need to set the e-gap. What is happening to me is that the mag is not up to full change when it fires. On mag check the engine runs rough on that mag. Not knowing how to set it I just let the points open just as soon as they could which isn't right. Thanks Jim Sury Jim, Yes, the T-150 tool is the one I am talking about. My curiosity was how many other folks actually set the e-gap. I have a need for the tool, because after about 300 hrs of service, I removed the points in the Left mag, to have a close look at if there was any burning on the contacts...there was none. Here's how a magneto works: A strong magnet mounted on the shaft, spins within a two part coil, that has windings that are electrically connected on one leg of the circuit, via the points. As the magnet swaps ends within the two part coil, a current races back and forth in a millisecond, between these two windings. The faster it spins, the higher the current. The purpose of the points is to interrupt this current flow when it is at it's peak...which is called the 'e-gap'. The e stands for 'energy'. You DO NOT adjust the points to a specific gap, you DO adjust the points to crack open at the very instant when this current is at it's peak. It is a very narrow margin, and if it is more than 5 =BA off, it will have a great impact on how much current and voltage goes to the plugs. When the points crack open, the current will flow to the path of least resistance, which is through the distributor and wires, to the spark plugs. The purpose of the Impulse Coupling is two fold: 1) it catches on a cog, and collects Spring energy and when it releases it the timing is retarded for easier engine start ; 2) it spins the magnet at a much higher rate. Once the engine is running, centrifugal force acts upon two spring loaded weights, which does not allow the cogs to catch. When you shut down the engine, as it slows down to below about 100 RPM (maybe 200 rpm) or so, you hear the cogs catching, and spinning the magnet at the faster rate. Now...All I need is a T-150 tool Chuck G. NX770CG ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wcbowe(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Subject: Metal Gear and Wire Wheels For Sale
I have a complete landing gear, with I think all the fittings to match up to the fuselage, plus a set of motorcycle wire wheels with disk brakes that are of no use to me. They have been sitting in my hangar for a long time now and my airplane is up and flying. I built my Piet up with a Wooden Gear and Jenny Wheels. These have been on a flying airplane, but the airplane went through a flood. I would have no problem sandblasting them up and using them. The only thing I would probably do is reengineer the brake calipers. Let me know if any of you are interested in them. They are located in Sonoma, CA, I can get you pictures in a couple of days. Make me an offer plus shipping or pick up. Email me off the list at _wcbowe(at)aol.com_ (mailto:wcbowe(at)aol.com) to keep from clogging up the list. Thanks Walter Bowe NX12988 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Piet List vs Other Lists
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Corky, The plans for Waco's are available from the Smithsonian Institution. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet List vs Other Lists In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:04:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: or rebuild an antique like a Travellaire or a Waco Jack, This is a thought provoking statement. IF a builder so decided he wanted to undertake such a project, to actually build one of the above, where would he or she obtain plans, drawings, spec or whatever. I've often wondered how long it would take to build the ribs for a Waco Taperwing. Mindbogling. It would be a worthy retirement project, if one lived long enough Back in '52 I observed a lonely UPF-7 parked on the far end of Ft Smith airport. I inquired and the FBO said I could buy it for $ 186. Some jerk came in, ground looped, damaged the lower left wing tip. Repairs were $186. The guy had never come back. Just thinking Corky ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: need info.
Hi there piet builders & flyers, I am going to get shot for asking this I think. I was just wondering if there are any illinois builders on the list that might be able to tell me Ryder Olsen. He has an ad on barnstormers. Sitka long fuse, tail feathers, 26 ribs. Gd work, T88. Pickup Chicago Or? $500 located Burnham, IL USA thanks, Ben Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Looking for Forrest Lovley
Date: Mar 29, 2007
Forrest, I am trying to contact you but your e-mail keeps bouncing. Please contact me at: gcardinal(at)comcast.net Thanks, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Wing? Re: Apology
Good analysis Mike, I am definitely in the B-C category. Rick On 3/28/07, bike.mike wrote: > > > This runs a little long, so be forewarned. > > > It isn't a diatribe, but an apology. > > > Here in the United States, FARs were long ago written that enabled > licensing > and standardization of "Experimental" Aircraft. The purpose was, and > remains officially, for "education." In the intervening years, the rules > have been used to justify a lot of people building airplanes that achieve > something that they otherwise could not achieve, whether it is > performance, > a replica of an historic airplane, or having any airplane at all. Other > people have used the rules to become educated. (Had the rules existed in > the 1920s, Bernard Pietenpol would have achieved his phenomenal > self-education in aircraft design within them.) > > > Folks on this list come from each of those motivations. > > Some, call them "type A", want to have a replica of a great series of > airplanes, the Pietenpol Aircamper. Type A's consider that only very > accurate replicas can legitimately bear the name of the original. These > aircraft only have materials and engines (Model A, Corvair) and airfoils > that were originally experimented with by BHP himself. The most extreme > examples use casein glue and muslin fabric. > > > Others, type B, want to have an airplane that looks mostly like a famous > original, yet benefits from part of the 80 years of advances in airplanes > that have happened since Bernard started flying off his farm. Type B's > use > somewhat more modern engines, Continental, Franklin, etc. and use epoxy, > Dacron, some even having electrical systems and tail wheels. Mike C, > Corky, > Jack Phillips, and others are prime examples of fine type B airplane > builders who didn't build exact replicas of Bernard's original. I try to > fall somewhere between type A and type B. > > > Still others, type C, are on this list for an education. They want to > learn > what it is like to actually build an airplane, and the Pietenpol looks > like > a nice, simple, place to start. Type C's also want to relive some of what > Bernard did in his experimenting and building days. Bernard certainly > didn' > t build his original airplanes exactly to someone else's plans; he had to > educate himself as he went along. Type C's want to earn some of that > education as well. > > > In 80 years, aviation has advanced far, far, beyond what any of the early > experimenters saw, or probably imagined. Airframe materials have gone > from > bamboo and paper to spruce and muslin to aluminum alloys to composites. > Engines have gone from unreliable motorcycle derivatives with a > power-to-weight ratio of .05 to turbines that achieve ratios of nearly 20 > and have actual TBO's measured in decades. The achievable private > airplane > has evolved from a Piet capable of 80 mph to a turbine powered Lancair > that > can do way over 300. > > > Type C listers want to learn a little of what drove all that > progress. They > want the joy of changing this or that and learning how everything else > changes. They want to know what drove changing biplanes to monoplanes, > and > strutted high wings to cantilevered low wings. Type C members of this > list > actually achieve what was intended with the original Experimental Aircraft > FAR's: education and they get much closer to the essence of Bernard > Pietenpol than any of the rest of us. > > > I hope that those type C's I've chided about building a Piet in order to > build a Piet will accept this as an apology. You are who I would aspire > to > be if I had the courage. > > Mike Hardaway > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Airfoil news?
Good point Steve. I have the 612 Riblett airfoil plans and the Bill Rewey info on it. If my genuine wings weren't already hanging from the garage ceiling I would be building a 612 wing. After I finish this thing and get bored maybe I will build a second wing. Rick On 3/29/07, Steve Glass wrote: > m > > > > Hi > > So............ do any of you B, C, ..........D types have any news on the > "new airfoil". > > > Thanks and > Best regards > Steve in Maine > > _________________________________________________________________ > Live Search Maps ' find all the local information you need, right when you > need it. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag2&FORM=MGAC01 > > =========== =========== =========== > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: You guys are good ! Changing subject lines
No Ken, just another type B-C Piet builder like me. Rick Does that make me a true pietenpol builder or am I reduced to a > Change-n-Pieter Airplane Cheater?!.... > > Ken H > Fargo, ND > > *"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" * wrote: > > > This is a good group----look how easy you can tell what a guy is posting > about now. Good post, Jack Phillips and part of my thoughts > in my previous post were due to the things that you have conveyed to me > about the other list you are on---the RV 10 list. > > Your post about the King Air pilot commenting to you reminded me of the > pilots for the owner of the Indianapolis Colts. I landed at Goshen, > Indiana > on my way back from Brodhead one year and this beautiful jet pulled up > nearby to the fuel pumps where I was at. The pilots came out and came > right over to my plane about the same time I was walking toward (to me) > this gorgeous luxury jet to admire it. We both were wishing we could > fly each other's airplanes ! What a brotherhood this flying stuff can > make between people who hardly know each other or have never even met. > ------------------------------ > Get your own web address.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49678/*http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL> > <http://%0A%3Cpre%3E%3Cb%3E%3Cfont+size=2+color=> > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing weight
From: Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all hardware, cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? Tom Bernie Gloucester Mass ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: group hug
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
No way.....no group hugs.....that would send a scary message. We'll have Dr. Phil on the list if you guys go that far and everyone will get a new copy of his wife's book. (whatever that might be this month) I've seen some of you guys up close at Brodhead and hugs are out:)) (I'm sure the feeling is likewise !) Mike C. happy that it is Friday and warmer in Ohio lately ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Tom My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three piece wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading edge. I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span than stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't know if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish also. In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe from the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes, flight instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is 340 lbs. Rick On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: > > > I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all hardware, > cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir > with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? > > Tom Bernie > Gloucester Mass > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing weight
From: Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Rick, Thanks for the reply. Guess I'm getting what I deserve for using Fir. At 25% heavier it really shows up in the uncovered wing. Thanks, Tom > Tom > > My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three > piece wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply > leading edge. I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a > little longer span than stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" > including the wingtip. Don't know if that is heavy or light for a Piet > wing section. That includes varnish also. > > In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage > airframe from the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, > cowling), but including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 > tires, brakes, flight instruments but no engine instruments, tail > wheel, empty fuel tank is 340 lbs. > > Rick > > On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: > > > I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all > hardware, > cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's > Doug Fir > > > > > > -- > Rick Holland > > "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
Date: Mar 30, 2007
I just finished reading a wonderful article in the new Sport Aviation about the group of Jr high kids restoring a Piet originally built in 1932. It was originally built in 9 monthe which is amazing by itself. These kids have been working like crazy on this project. As long as everybody here has been feeling so huggy here lately, how about we all send them a gift from all of the Piet builders around the country. I would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57 and send them together. Any comments? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Rick, I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so I have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars and plan a 1/16" wing LE.) When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and left wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze weight? Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling? What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh? When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The first wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the FAA and light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe flying fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.) According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225# GW and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic. Thanks for your thoughts. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > >Tom > >My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three piece >wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading edge. >I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span than >stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't know >if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish >also. > >In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe from >the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but >including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes, flight >instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is 340 >lbs. > >Rick > >On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: >> >> >> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all hardware, >> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir >> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? >> >> Tom Bernie >> Gloucester Mass >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Rick Holland > >"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Rick, I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so I have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars and plan a 1/16" ply wing LE.) When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and left wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze weight? Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling? What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh? When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The first wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the FAA and light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe flying fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.) According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225# GW and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic. Thanks for your thoughts. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > >Tom > >My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three piece >wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading edge. >I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span than >stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't know >if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish >also. > >In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe from >the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but >including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes, flight >instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is 340 >lbs. > >Rick > >On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: >> >> >> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all hardware, >> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir >> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? >> >> Tom Bernie >> Gloucester Mass >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >Rick Holland > >"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GlennThomas(at)flyingwood.com" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Nice idea. That's a good showing of support all the way from CA to CT. Since you brought it up how bout we send them to you and you forward the whole stack together? (more impactful) If that goes over well with the list, give a deadline. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet I just finished reading a wonderful article in the new Sport Aviation about the group of Jr high kids restoring a Piet originally built in 1932. It was originally built in 9 monthe which is amazing by itself. These kids have been working like crazy on this project. As long as everybody here has been feeling so huggy here lately, how about we all send them a gift from all of the Piet builders around the country. I would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57 and send them together. Any comments? Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Glenn I would certainly be willing to do that. Also, I will be hitting on my local chapter separately, to look at a scholarship grant that has gone unused this school year. I would propose if this works out to direct their teacher / supervisor to use money at his discression for the benefit of his volunteers in appreciation. For anyone interested EAA Chapt 57 Dick Navratil 1415 Skiles Ln. Arden Hills, Mn. 55112 ----- Original Message ----- From: GlennThomas(at)flyingwood.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet Nice idea. That's a good showing of support all the way from CA to CT. Since you brought it up how bout we send them to you and you forward the whole stack together? (more impactful) If that goes over well with the list, give a deadline. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet I just finished reading a wonderful article in the new Sport Aviation about the group of Jr high kids restoring a Piet originally built in 1932. It was originally built in 9 monthe which is amazing by itself. These kids have been working like crazy on this project. As long as everybody here has been feeling so huggy here lately, how about we all send them a gift from all of the Piet builders around the country. I would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57 and send them together. Any comments? Dick N. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
In a message dated 3/30/2007 6:35:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes: I would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57 and send them together. Any comments? Dick N. Great article. Great idea. Let me know where to send a check. Ron ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Hi Dick, Sounds like a great project. My check is in the mail. Keep us posted. Lynn Knoll Piet/Vair in the works Wichita ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet Glenn I would certainly be willing to do that. Also, I will be hitting on my local chapter separately, to look at a scholarship grant that has gone unused this school year. I would propose if this works out to direct their teacher / supervisor to use money at his discression for the benefit of his volunteers in appreciation. For anyone interested EAA Chapt 57 Dick Navratil 1415 Skiles Ln. Arden Hills, Mn. 55112 ----- Original Message ----- From: GlennThomas(at)flyingwood.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet Nice idea. That's a good showing of support all the way from CA to CT. Since you brought it up how bout we send them to you and you forward the whole stack together? (more impactful) If that goes over well with the list, give a deadline. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet I just finished reading a wonderful article in the new Sport Aviation about the group of Jr high kids restoring a Piet originally built in 1932. It was originally built in 9 monthe which is amazing by itself. These kids have been working like crazy on this project. As long as everybody here has been feeling so huggy here lately, how about we all send them a gift from all of the Piet builders around the country. I would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57 and send them together. Any comments? Dick N. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Piet List vs Other Lists
Is Jimmy Dean on this list!? "Phillips, Jack" wrote: Corky, I would like to do a project like Jimmy Dean, down in Sanford, NC is doing. Jimmy (who owns a beautiful Ford Model A powered Pietenpol, that sadly needs a new fabric job) is building an essentially new Waco Ten. He bought a junk Waco and is using the old parts to make patterns for all new components. He has finished the fuselage framework, all welded up of brand new 4130 tubing, much better than the mild steel of the original. He is using the original ribs to make a jig to build all new ribs. By the time he is finished about the only original components will be the centerline and the nameplate and serial number, but that is enough in the FAAs eyes to make it a certificated airplane. Id like to do something similar, as my retirement project. Then take it and go barnstorming. You cant go barnstorming in a Pietenpol and charge for rides, since it is Experimental. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet List vs Other Lists In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:04:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: or rebuild an antique like a Travellaire or a Waco Jack, This is a thought provoking statement. IF a builder so decided he wanted to undertake such a project, to actually build one of the above, where would he or she obtain plans, drawings, spec or whatever. I've often wondered how long it would take to build the ribs for a Waco Taperwing. Mindbogling. It would be a worthy retirement project, if one lived long enough Back in '52 I observed a lonely UPF-7 parked on the far end of Ft Smith airport. I inquired and the FBO said I could buy it for $ 186. Some jerk came in, ground looped, damaged the lower left wing tip. Repairs were $186. The guy had never come back. Just thinking Corky --------------------------------- See what's free at AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: BOM
Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin ordering wood. Thank you; Ryan Michalkiewicz --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Date: Mar 30, 2007
Rick If you look at this picture of the data plate on the Last Original, http://westcoastpiet.com/images/BHP%20Built/40_data_plate.jpg , you can see that Mr. Pietenpol lists an empty weight of 641 and gross weight of 1,282 pounds. I believe this plane has the 3/4-inch spars like yours does. I take this to mean you can list 1,225 pounds as your gross weight and still have a safe plane. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > > > Rick, > > I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so I > have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars and > plan a 1/16" ply wing LE.) > > When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and left > wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze > weight? > > Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling? > > What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh? > > When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do > you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my > weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The first > wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the FAA and > light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe flying > fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.) > > According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about > 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of > wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225# GW > and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component > weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic. > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> >>Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight >> >>Tom >> >>My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three >>piece >>wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading >>edge. >>I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span than >>stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't know >>if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish >>also. >> >>In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe >>from >>the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but >>including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes, flight >>instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is 340 >>lbs. >> >>Rick >> >>On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all hardware, >>> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir >>> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? >>> >>> Tom Bernie >>> Gloucester Mass >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>Rick Holland >> >>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Did you rout the spars as per the plans? Clif > > Rick, > > Thanks for the reply. Guess I'm getting what I deserve for using Fir. > At 25% heavier it really shows up in the uncovered wing. > > Thanks, > Tom > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
If you increase the span don't forget to change the outer strut position by the same percentage. Clif > > > Rick, > > > According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about > 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of > wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225# GW > and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component > weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic. > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > Tim in central TX > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Santiago: donde estas?
This is a little late, sorry about that. Does this Dacron shrink evenly in BOTH directions. Most fabric sold for clothing has been preshrunk in one direction already. Clif Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see the finished product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I guess I will cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less expensive). Saludos Santiago ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: BOM
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Ryan, Check out HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com. Go to =93Services & Suppliers=94 and click on =93Material Lists=94. These are the lists I used. I included some spare timber. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Michalkiewicz Sent: Saturday, 31 March 2007 12:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: BOM Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin ordering wood. Thank you; Ryan Michalkiewicz _____ Don't be flakey. HYPERLINK "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail"Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and HYPERLINK "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/mail"always stay connected to friends. "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com -- 30/03/2007 1:15 PM -- 30/03/2007 1:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron Travel
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Looking at Santiago's beautiful Wing pictures-and seeing the Aileron view makes me wonder how much down aileron travel there is with the originals-has anyone got the measurements on how much travel they have at the trailing edge from neutral to full up or down when rigged? Too wet to fly here in the Texas panhandle this morning,but I can build.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104073#104073 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
After building my Piet wing with routed 1" spars, I got a chance to see an Aeronca wing not covered. Its amazing how relitively flimsy it looked compared to the Piet. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > > > Rick > > If you look at this picture of the data plate on the Last Original, > http://westcoastpiet.com/images/BHP%20Built/40_data_plate.jpg , you can > see that Mr. Pietenpol lists an empty weight of 641 and gross weight of > 1,282 pounds. I believe this plane has the 3/4-inch spars like yours does. > I take this to mean you can list 1,225 pounds as your gross weight and > still have a safe plane. > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > > >> >> >> Rick, >> >> I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so I >> have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars >> and plan a 1/16" ply wing LE.) >> >> When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and >> left wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze >> weight? >> >> Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling? >> >> What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh? >> >> When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do >> you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my >> weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The >> first wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the >> FAA and light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe >> flying fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.) >> >> According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about >> 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of >> wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225# >> GW and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component >> weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic. >> >> Thanks for your thoughts. >> >> Tim in central TX >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> >>>Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM >>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight >>> >>>Tom >>> >>>My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three >>>piece >>>wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading >>>edge. >>>I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span >>>than >>>stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't >>>know >>>if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish >>>also. >>> >>>In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe >>>from >>>the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but >>>including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes, >>>flight >>>instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is 340 >>>lbs. >>> >>>Rick >>> >>>On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all >>>> hardware, >>>> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir >>>> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? >>>> >>>> Tom Bernie >>>> Gloucester Mass >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Rick Holland >>> >>>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing weight
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Clif, The Grega modification cad drawings don't call for routing (they specify aircraft spruce). Now I wish I had routed or looked into a built up spar -- at least my spars are laminated and strong. Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 2:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight Did you rout the spars as per the plans? Clif > > Rick, > > Thanks for the reply. Guess I'm getting what I deserve for using Fir. > At 25% heavier it really shows up in the uncovered wing. > > Thanks, > Tom > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Hey Rick, Don't assume a negative attitude on fir. There is fir and then there is fir. Look for some cheap fir and you can sure find. Search around and find a reputable lumber business. Specify what you are looking for and give them a chance to provide. Then and only then fret about the cost. 41CC has fir spars, 3/4 with areas routed which I would NEVER do again. My finished uncovered wings weighed in about 48 pounds each and around 60 totally finished. Her are the lumber specs I asked for: 16 ft length, 2X6 rough, Douglas fir vertical grain, kiln dried w/ straight grains at least 12 to an inch. My lumberman put me on hold for a couple of days while he searched his pile and came back with the question, " would 18 to 24 grains suit you?". You too can find a source as well but don't accept that what is pushed by the price. Maybe you are not as old and ugly as Corky but he has learned that you ain't gonna get anything worth a d--- without paying for it. "Excuse me E" Found the fir to be only a slight few ounces heavier than the spruce I milled for 311CC. IF I were to build another which is totally out of reason I would go with good, light Douglas Fir for the entire Piet. Sorry to have butted in on your conversation Corky Retired Piet builder ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Santiago: donde estas?
Yes, in all directions. I believe the rate is 11% shrink. For the width of the wing it can be lose enough to be able to pinch between the fingers at the center of the chord, before shrinking. Some make the mistake of glueing it on too tightly. It need to shrink to "condence" for the strength. See the Poly Fiber manual. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Santiago: donde estas? This is a little late, sorry about that. Does this Dacron shrink evenly in BOTH directions. Most fabric sold for clothing has been preshrunk in one direction already. Clif Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see the finished product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I guess I will cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less expensive). Saludos Santiago ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
Real good idea Dick, post an address for us to send a check. Rick On 3/30/07, Dick Navratil wrote: > > I just finished reading a wonderful article in the new Sport Aviation > about the group of Jr high kids restoring a Piet originally built in 1932. > It was originally built in 9 monthe which is amazing by itself. > These kids have been working like crazy on this project. > As long as everybody here has been feeling so huggy here lately, how about > we all send them a gift from all of the Piet builders around the country. I > would recommend we could gather checks made to their local EAA Chapter 57 > and send them together. > Any comments? > > Dick N. > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: BOM
Ryan This may help a bit, attached the Piet wood kit from ACS that I purchased a couple years ago for $800. Don't know what the price is now. Included all the wood I needed for a long fuselage minus 500 ft. of 1/4 x 1/2 capstrip as mentioned on the list, and sheets of 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" plywood. Congratulations on your decision to start your project. Rick On 3/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote: > > Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin > ordering wood. > > Thank you; > > Ryan Michalkiewicz > > ------------------------------ > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>and > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>to friends. > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Santiago: donde estas?
Yes Clif, this fabric is for aircraft use, but is made only in 2.7oz (I was looking for 1.7oz) so I will use minimun dope and paint, or maybe latex? to keep the weight down. Will see Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Pregunt. Respond. Descubr. Todo lo que queras saber, y lo que ni imaginabas, est en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta). ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Santiago: donde estas?
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Be very careful when shrinking Dacron;it has been known to actually crush the ribs of the wing. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans Sent: March 31, 2007 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Santiago: donde estas? Yes, in all directions. I believe the rate is 11% shrink. For the width of the wing it can be lose enough to be able to pinch between the fingers at the center of the chord, before shrinking. Some make the mistake of glueing it on too tightly. It need to shrink to "condence" for the strength. See the Poly Fiber manual. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 3:09 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Santiago: donde estas? This is a little late, sorry about that. Does this Dacron shrink evenly in BOTH directions. Most fabric sold for clothing has been preshrunk in one direction already. Clif Thank you very much guys! I cannot either wait to see the finished product!! In the meantime i'm enjoying the construction. I guess I will cover it with an argentinian made dacron fabric (much less expensive). Saludos Santiago href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Sport aviation: Mont. Piet
Date: Mar 31, 2007
I occurred to me although unlikely, some here may not get Sport Aviation, so let me summarize the article. Bernard Pietenpols plans appeared in the Flying and Glider Manual in 1932. Right away, David Comstock of Roundup, Mt. began construction on his Aircamper. He completed the plane in 9 months, when he was 17 years old. This is the first Aircamper ever completed by someone other than Bernard Pietenpol. The plane sat for many years in his old welding shop. Now kids from the local school are restoring the plane to be displayed in a museum in town. The kids doing this are all girls from 12 to 17 years old with the supervision of their teacher. David Comstock left money in his will to restore and build a hangar to display the plane. The teacher has applied for grants for the students as rewards but received none. Several of these girls have been very enthusiastic about learning to fly. I thought it might be very nice of members of this group to do something for the kids who have done this. This might contribute to flying lessons, education or the program the kids are in. I plan to blow off any calls for contributions I receive from politicals, theater groups and such and make this my cause this year. I anyone is interested, make a check to EAA Chapter 57 and send to me Dick Navratil 1415 Skiles Ln. Arden Hills, Mn. 55112 Also, send along a pic of yourself with your plane or project and we can bundle them all together. Dick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: BOM
Date: Mar 31, 2007
Just beware that the wing kit does not include leading or trailing edge Spruce. If your going to order the spruce kit you will be paying truck shipping, so you may as well get those pieces in one the same order and save about $100. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BOM Ryan This may help a bit, attached the Piet wood kit from ACS that I purchased a couple years ago for $800. Don't know what the price is now. Included all the wood I needed for a long fuselage minus 500 ft. of 1/4 x 1/2 capstrip as mentioned on the list, and sheets of 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" plywood. Congratulations on your decision to start your project. Rick On 3/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote: Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin ordering wood. Thank you; Ryan Michalkiewicz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Join the EAA? And more progress
Date: Mar 31, 2007
I was looking into the EAA, and I suppose it varies on a chapter by chapter basis, but what sort of benefit have piet builders seen from the EAA? What in general could one expect from the EAA? Broad questions but about the best I could think of. I also got a fair ammount done in between allot of other efforts this weekend. The tail fittings got finished and the tail is on. I also got the plane side motor mounts done but got sort of stonewalled on the motor mount itself. Upper mounts http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31a.jpg Lower mounts http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31b.jpg Tail on http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31d.jpg Elevator work http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31e.jpg http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31g.jpg -Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Join the EAA? And more progress
Date: Mar 31, 2007
EAA is a great organization and helps tremendously to keep our sport/ hobby alive and well. I'm sure all the chapters are different. My particular chapter is mostly about high dollar kit planes in aluminum and composite with glass panels that cost more than my whole Pietenpol. When I mention wood and fabric they look at me like I have three heads or something. So I end up belonging but not attending the meetings very often. You can go to the meetings a few times to check out your local chapter and see where they're at before you join. Ed G. From: Scott Schreiber<mailto:got22b(at)subarubrat.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Join the EAA? And more progress I was looking into the EAA, and I suppose it varies on a chapter by chapter basis, but what sort of benefit have piet builders seen from the EAA? What in general could one expect from the EAA? Broad questions but about the best I could think of. I also got a fair ammount done in between allot of other efforts this weekend. The tail fittings got finished and the tail is on. I also got the plane side motor mounts done but got sort of stonewalled on the motor mount itself. Upper mounts http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31a.jpg isc/pietmar31a.jpg> Lower mounts http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31b.jpg isc/pietmar31b.jpg> Tail on http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31d.jpg isc/pietmar31d.jpg> Elevator work http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31e.jpg isc/pietmar31e.jpg> http://www.subarubrat.com/misc/pietmar31g.jpg isc/pietmar31g.jpg> -Scott http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
That's good to know Chris, and it would be nice if my long fuse Corvair Piet comes in at only 641 empty but I know thats impossible since I will have a starter and battery (and three piece wing). Its interesting since the Flyer and Glider Manual article shows 1080 gross using routed 1" spars with 625 empty weight. I imagine with more and more building and test flying experience Bernard upped the gross weight number. Tim - to answer your question, the 340 lb number is for the entire uncovered airframe (wings, tail, gear) with nothing forward of the firewall. According to William Wynne the corvair engine, mount, and prop will be 240 lbs. No idea what a cowling will weight, 10 lbs? Will be using 1.7 fabric and latex paint so hopefully the cover and paint will not add too much more. I am hoping for an empty weight just under 700 lbs. As far as gross weight goes, if Bernard rated his last long fuse corvair at 1282 that is good enough for me. As far as wing loading goes, with my 3 ft. center section my span will be 30 1/2' which makes for a wing area of 152.5 sq ft and at 1282 gross comes to 8.4 lb/sq ft. The Flying and Glider Manual specs (1080 and 140 sq ft) come to 7.7 lb/sq ft. Since I will be flying solo 95% of the time my flying weight with full fuel should be around 1000 lbs which comes to 6.55 lb/sq ft. Rick On 3/31/07, Catdesigns wrote: > > > > > Rick > > If you look at this picture of the data plate on the Last Original, > http://westcoastpiet.com/images/BHP%20Built/40_data_plate.jpg , you can > see > that Mr. Pietenpol lists an empty weight of 641 and gross weight of 1,282 > pounds. I believe this plane has the 3/4-inch spars like yours does. I > take > this to mean you can list 1,225 pounds as your gross weight and still have > a > safe plane. > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 3:16 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > > > > > > > > Rick, > > > > I am still working on weight and balance issues, gross weight, etc., so > I > > have a couple of questions. (FYI, I also have solid 3/4" spruce spars > and > > plan a 1/16" ply wing LE.) > > > > When you say your fuze, as described, is 340 lbs., and your right and > left > > wings weigh 49 lbs. each.-- is your center wing included in the fuze > > weight? > > > > Do you already know the weight of your engine and mount and cowling? > > > > What do you believe the fabric, dope, paint will weigh? > > > > When the Piet is done, what gross weight, payloads and wing loadings do > > you expect to achieve? (I keep running into walls on paper, with my > > weight, fuel and no passenger, but 60# of baggage for Brodhead. The > first > > wall is what BP rated his ships [1100# or so?]. The second is the FAA > and > > light sport rating [1225#?]. And the third "wall" is actual safe flying > > fully loaded, in either heavy weather or hard landings.) > > > > According to my thinking, BP's original wing loadings are about > > 7.3#/sq.ft. With a little wider center wing and another foot or so of > > wing span as well, as you have done(nothing extreme), you can get 1225# > GW > > and still be under 8#/sq.ft. However, with some of these component > > weights, even 1225# overall weight might be problematic. > > > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > > > Tim in central TX > > > > -----Original Message----- > >>From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> > >>Sent: Mar 30, 2007 12:26 PM > >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight > >> > >>Tom > >> > >>My uncovered Piet left and right wing panels weight 49 lbs each (three > >>piece > >>wing). This includes all cables and metal fittings, 1/16' ply leading > >>edge. > >>I used a 3/4" spar, all spruce. The sections are a little longer span > than > >>stock for my higher altitude at 163 1/2" including the wingtip. Don't > know > >>if that is heavy or light for a Piet wing section. That includes varnish > >>also. > >> > >>In case anyone is interested my entire uncovered long fuselage airframe > >>from > >>the stainless covered firewall back, (no engine, mount, cowling), but > >>including all controls, cables, gear, wheels, 6x8.00 tires, brakes, > flight > >>instruments but no engine instruments, tail wheel, empty fuel tank is > 340 > >>lbs. > >> > >>Rick > >> > >>On 3/30/07, Tom Bernie wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I just weighed a GN1 wing panel ready to cover, varnished, all > hardware, > >>> cables and aluminum leading edge -- 67lbs -- YIKES! Yes it's Doug Fir > >>> with solid 1" spar. Does anybody have any comparisons Piet or Grega? > >>> > >>> Tom Bernie > >>> Gloucester Mass > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Rick Holland > >> > >>"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
The original weight limit had nothing to do with the strength of the airframe or the experience level. It had everything to do with the limited hp of the Ford engine. I have, and have provided here on the list a few times, the formula for "minimum safe climb/ hp/gross weight" . The Ford Piet is right on that minimum. The reason for the higher gross in the Last Original is the higher horsepower of the Corvair. We all assume that the G loading is the only factor being considered. After all, it does make sense. Most AC we see are not so extremely power limited so then weight becomes more the issue. That's what "trade off" means, isn't it. Off course this works up to a point. At what weight does the Piet become unsafe, G wise? Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing weight That's good to know Chris, and it would be nice if my long fuse Corvair Piet comes in at only 641 empty but I know thats impossible since I will have a starter and battery (and three piece wing). Its interesting since the Flyer and Glider Manual article shows 1080 gross using routed 1" spars with 625 empty weight. I imagine with more and more building and test flying experience Bernard upped the gross weight number. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: BOM
Thanks every one. Scott Schreiber wrote: Just beware that the wing kit does not include leading or trailing edge Spruce. If your going to order the spruce kit you will be paying truck shipping, so you may as well get those pieces in one the same order and save about $100. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: BOM Ryan This may help a bit, attached the Piet wood kit from ACS that I purchased a couple years ago for $800. Don't know what the price is now. Included all the wood I needed for a long fuselage minus 500 ft. of 1/4 x 1/2 capstrip as mentioned on the list, and sheets of 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" plywood. Congratulations on your decision to start your project. Rick On 3/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote: Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin ordering wood. Thank you; Ryan Michalkiewicz --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Subject: Hurst Airheart brake master cylinder, HELP
Gentlemen, I hope this finds you all well! The weather in North Texas is great for flying this weekend. I saw a polished aluminum B-25 fly over my house yesterday. Does anyone know where I can get a repair kit for one of these (please see enclosed)? I think these were sold for racing go-carts or something. I found them in a VP-2 (Volksplane) that was built in 1974. We're going to have to start over if I cant find a way/source to rebuild them soon... Thanks in advance guys, Max L. Davis Arlington, TX. NX101XW (Reserved) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: interesting math site
For reference or brushup http://www.webmath.com/ Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Hurst Airheart brake master cylinder, HELP
I've seen similar master cyl's on go-carts. Try a go cart shop. Leon S. in Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: "Wayne E. Bressler Jr." <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: 2.9 Gram Pietenpol Model for Indoor Flight!
I tend to lurk here on the Piet list, and would eventually like to build a full-scale example of this classic design. In the meantime, however, I indulge in R/C models. I was surfing the web forums this morning, and found a guy who built an 8" wingspan, 2.9 gram Pietenpol model from really thin foam. The trim colors are all printed on an ink-jet printer, and the model looks fantastic. I know DJ has dabbled in R/C Piet's, and thought everyone else might enjoy seeing this seriously micro model. Here's the link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659795 -Wayne Bressler wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com www.taildraggersinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: wing weight
Date: Apr 01, 2007
I can report that the Doug fir spars in 41CC did a fine job yesterday. Took my wife for her first Pietenpol ride, actually the first time I've taken a passenger up if you don't count my instructor Charlie. Delightful flight! Short but sweet (the flight, my wife, and the airplane all three!), my landing was nothing to write home about but everyone walked away happy and proud. Engine started on the first pull after 5 blades with fuel on, throttle cracked, mags off. Corky- you're right; why mess with the magnetos if the engine starts like this every time?! Tell you what... this airplane draws a crowd. Guess who came buzzing over to my hangar the instant I rolled out the airplane? Local tech counselor Paul McReynolds, who is known around here as the RV Guru (he has built several of them) and guess what he said? He was friends with Gar Williams, who flew a Piet. And Paul said that it was always his dream to build and fly a Piet. These airplanes bring out the true builder in you...! And people were lined up here and there outside their hangars and along the runway as they saw 41CC take to the air and do my signature high-speed low pass down the runway (north wind at 18 MPH yesterday, right down the runway, slowed my groundspeed, dagnabbit!) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new payment ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Hurst Airheart brake master cylinder, HELP
Date: Apr 01, 2007
I have one in my shop somewhere. If I can find it I'll see if it's any good. Something tells me it works fine. I'll sell it for cheap. DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Andimaxd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 6:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hurst Airheart brake master cylinder, HELP Gentlemen, I hope this finds you all well! The weather in North Texas is great for flying this weekend. I saw a polished aluminum B-25 fly over my house yesterday. Does anyone know where I can get a repair kit for one of these (please see enclosed)? I think these were sold for racing go-carts or something. I found them in a VP-2 (Volksplane) that was built in 1974. We're going to have to start over if I cant find a way/source to rebuild them soon... Thanks in advance guys, Max L. Davis Arlington, TX. NX101XW (Reserved) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: 2.9 Gram Pietenpol Model for Indoor Flight!
Date: Apr 01, 2007
that was very cool! I've seen non flying models that small made from printed posterboard but the foam trick is definatley cool! DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Larry Rice <rice(at)iapdatacom.net>
Subject: EAA
Folks, Yes, the usefulness of the local chapter for advice on your project will vary greatly, chapter to chapter. Regardless, every homebuilder should be a member of EAA, as the EAA is the only group defending your freedom to build airplanes in Washington, DC. Now I'll get off the soap box! Peace, Larry the micro Mong guy -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: wing weight
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Oscar et al, Like a Movie Star or a Rock Star, once a Piet comes out of hiding, A.K.A. the Hangar, the "Paparazi" come out of the wood work. Up here in the Tundra, Planes fly in and out of Morey Airport in Middleton, Wi. all day long. Then my Piet comes out, quietly flies the pattern for two landings and back in the hangar. For the next several days no matter who I run into, all I here is "Hey! I saw you fly your Piet", "Cool!". I even suggested to one person, that maybe I should install an 0-200 engine in it and then everyone with think it's just another Cesna150. His comment was "Don't think for one minute, you can disguise a Piet by faking a Cessna sound!. Alas! Our Fans await, anxiously, for our inevitable return. Roman NX20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing weight > > > I can report that the Doug fir spars in 41CC did a fine job yesterday. > Took my wife for her first Pietenpol ride, actually the first time I've > taken a passenger up if you don't count my instructor Charlie. Delightful > flight! Short but sweet (the flight, my wife, and the airplane all > three!), my landing was nothing to write home about but everyone walked > away happy and proud. Engine started on the first pull after 5 blades > with fuel on, throttle cracked, mags off. Corky- you're right; why mess > with the magnetos if the engine starts like this every time?! > > Tell you what... this airplane draws a crowd. Guess who came buzzing over > to my hangar the instant I rolled out the airplane? Local tech counselor > Paul McReynolds, who is known around here as the RV Guru (he has built > several of them) and guess what he said? He was friends with Gar > Williams, who flew a Piet. And Paul said that it was always his dream to > build and fly a Piet. These airplanes bring out the true builder in > you...! And people were lined up here and there outside their hangars and > along the runway as they saw 41CC take to the air and do my signature > high-speed low pass down the runway (north wind at 18 MPH yesterday, right > down the runway, slowed my groundspeed, dagnabbit!) > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Interest Rates near 39yr lows! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate > new payment > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: EAA
I guess your experience with a local chapter may vary. I joined the EAA and my local chapter 866 back in the beginning 2-1/2 years ago. Our chapter is building a Piet as a project and there is another member that was just finishing up a project when I joined. I was able to meet some really nice guys, one of whom ended up giving me a tailwheel endorsement nearly for free in his Citabria. The EAA has tech councelors that will inspect your project along the way at no charge and document it in your builders logs. I'm told that really helps when the FAA inspection comes due. We have a mix of homebuilders, from Piets to RV's with a little bit of everything in between, and quite a few guys that just hang around because they love airplanes. The EAA has a nice website, but you have to be a member to get into the homebuilder site that has lots of useful articles online. The Sport Aviation magazine is quite useful, I tried Sport Pilot for a year and didn't like it as well. All in all I've gotten much more than my money's worth from the EAA Ben Charvet Mims, Fl > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Just a few quick rib questions
Hello everyone; Just a few quick rib questions. First, let me say I took the advice of the list and threw out my full size rib print and am manually laying out my jig, thank you. I have not recived my full plans yet and I am working out of my builders manual, page 30. I have started with the "chord line" as illustrated, and plotted out the bottom side of the rib. I am confused whether the top mesurements are from the top of the rib to the chord line, or only to the bottom of the rib? Second, what are the first and last mesurements on the underside of the rib? There are arrows only, with no mesurements. Third, what is the lower mesurement opposite "4 1/2", 18" from the rear. it is between 7/32"and 1/16" Thank you, Ryan Ryan Michalkiewicz Skybolt Project --------------------------------- Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet List vs Other Lists
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I don't think so - not even sure he has email. I can get you his phone number if you need it, though. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Michalkiewicz Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet List vs Other Lists Is Jimmy Dean on this list!? "Phillips, Jack" wrote: Corky, I would like to do a project like Jimmy Dean, down in Sanford, NC is doing. Jimmy (who owns a beautiful Ford Model A powered Pietenpol, that sadly needs a new fabric job) is building an essentially new Waco Ten. He bought a junk Waco and is using the old parts to make patterns for all new components. He has finished the fuselage framework, all welded up of brand new 4130 tubing, much better than the mild steel of the original. He is using the original ribs to make a jig to build all new ribs. By the time he is finished about the only original components will be the centerline and the nameplate and serial number, but that is enough in the FAA's eyes to make it a certificated airplane. I'd like to do something similar, as my "retirement project". Then take it and go barnstorming. You can't go barnstorming in a Pietenpol and charge for rides, since it is Experimental. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet List vs Other Lists In a message dated 3/29/2007 11:04:47 AM Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com writes: or rebuild an antique like a Travellaire or a Waco Jack, This is a thought provoking statement. IF a builder so decided he wanted to undertake such a project, to actually build one of the above, where would he or she obtain plans, drawings, spec or whatever. I've often wondered how long it would take to build the ribs for a Waco Taperwing. Mindbogling. It would be a worthy retirement project, if one lived long enough Back in '52 I observed a lonely UPF-7 parked on the far end of Ft Smith airport. I inquired and the FBO said I could buy it for $ 186. Some jerk came in, ground looped, damaged the lower left wing tip. Repairs were $186. The guy had never come back. Just thinking Corky _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List _____ The fish are biting. Get more visitors <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http:/searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/s ponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=E M&b=50> on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Just a few quick rib questions
Date: Apr 01, 2007
What is this about a builder's manual? Where can I get one? I am just going by the plans....! Rob Stapleton, Jr. Photographer/writer P.O.Box 242186 Anchorage, AK 99524 www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net (907) 230.9425 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Michalkiewicz Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:01 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Just a few quick rib questions Hello everyone; Just a few quick rib questions. First, let me say I took the advice of the list and threw out my full size rib print and am manually laying out my jig, thank you. I have not recived my full plans yet and I am working out of my builders manual, page 30. I have started with the "chord line" as illustrated, and plotted out the bottom side of the rib. I am confused whether the top mesurements are from the top of the rib to the chord line, or only to the bottom of the rib? Second, what are the first and last mesurements on the underside of the rib? There are arrows only, with no mesurements. Third, what is the lower mesurement opposite "4 1/2", 18" from the rear. it is between 7/32"and 1/16" Thank you, Ryan Ryan Michalkiewicz Skybolt Project Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolba r/fea tures/mail/> alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49937/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolba r/fea tures/mail/> Forums! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Ryan Michalkiewicz <mskybolt(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Just a few quick rib questions
It mostly contains reprints of the original Modern Mechanics articles and some history. There is little building advice. Rob Stapleton wrote: What is this about a builder's manual? Where can I get one? I am just going by the plans....! Rob Stapleton, Jr. Photographer/writer P.O.Box 242186 Anchorage, AK 99524 www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net (907) 230.9425 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Michalkiewicz Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Just a few quick rib questions Hello everyone; Just a few quick rib questions. First, let me say I took the advice of the list and threw out my full size rib print and am manually laying out my jig, thank you. I have not recived my full plans yet and I am working out of my builders manual, page 30. I have started with the "chord line" as illustrated, and plotted out the bottom side of the rib. I am confused whether the top mesurements are from the top of the rib to the chord line, or only to the bottom of the rib? Second, what are the first and last mesurements on the underside of the rib? There are arrows only, with no mesurements. Third, what is the lower mesurement opposite "4 1/2", 18" from the rear. it is between 7/32"and 1/16" Thank you, Ryan Ryan Michalkiewicz Skybolt Project Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar tures/mail/> alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. tures/mail/> Forums! --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Just a few quick rib questions
Date: Apr 01, 2007
Rob, were you a photographer/writer with the daily news? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:45 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Just a few quick rib questions What is this about a builder's manual? Where can I get one? I am just going by the plans....! Rob Stapleton, Jr. Photographer/writer P.O.Box 242186 Anchorage, AK 99524 www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net (907) 230.9425 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Michalkiewicz Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Just a few quick rib questions Hello everyone; Just a few quick rib questions. First, let me say I took the advice of the list and threw out my full size rib print and am manually laying out my jig, thank you. I have not recived my full plans yet and I am working out of my builders manual, page 30. I have started with the "chord line" as illustrated, and plotted out the bottom side of the rib. I am confused whether the top mesurements are from the top of the rib to the chord line, or only to the bottom of the rib? Second, what are the first and last mesurements on the underside of the rib? There are arrows only, with no mesurements. Third, what is the lower mesurement opposite "4 1/2", 18" from the rear. it is between 7/32"and 1/16" Thank you, Ryan Ryan Michalkiewicz Skybolt Project Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/fea tures/mail/> alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49937/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/fea tures/mail/> Forums! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing weight
Ah, Right. What method of lamination did you use? Clif > > > Clif, > > The Grega modification cad drawings don't call for routing (they specify > aircraft spruce). Now I wish I had routed or looked into a built up > spar -- at least my spars are laminated and strong. > > Tom > > > Did you rout the spars as per the plans? > > Clif > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: donation for Piet builders
Date: Apr 02, 2007
For anyone interested EAA Chapt 57 Dick Navratil 1415 Skiles Ln. Arden Hills, Mn. 55112 _________________________________________________________________ 5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free quotes - *Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h2a5d&s=4056&p=5117&disc=y&vers=910 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitchgarner757(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Subject: Hurst Airheart brake master cylinder, HELP
Hi Max, Last year I purchased a Pazmany PL4 that was built in 1977 and never flown. It has the Hurst-Airheart brakes on it. The parts are a bit pricey. Be sure to order the correct material. They sell 2 kinds of seals, one for mineral oil and one for auto brake fluid. After a lot of searching I found the supplier in Minnesota. The company is: Tol-O-Matic, Inc. 3800 County Road 116 Hamel, MN 55340 Phone 763-478-8000, 800-328-2178 Fax 763-478-8080 Web Site: _www.tolomatic.com_ (http://www.tolomatic.com) email: _sales(at)tolomatic.com_ (mailto:sales(at)tolomatic.com) All the best, Mitch Garner RV-4, PL-4 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: BOM
Thanks for remembering that Scott. Many people use stairway railing (usually douglas fir) for the leading edges as recommended on this list by Mike Cuy, and clear pine or douglas fir for the trailing edge. Save you some dough. Rick On 3/31/07, Scott Schreiber wrote: > > Just beware that the wing kit does not include leading or trailing edge > Spruce. If your going to order the spruce kit you will be paying truck > shipping, so you may as well get those pieces in one the same order and save > about $100. > > -Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:33 AM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: BOM > > Ryan > > This may help a bit, attached the Piet wood kit from ACS that I purchased > a couple years ago for $800. Don't know what the price is now. Included all > the wood I needed for a long fuselage minus 500 ft. of 1/4 x 1/2 capstrip as > mentioned on the list, and sheets of 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4" plywood. > Congratulations on your decision to start your project. > > Rick > > On 3/30/07, Ryan Michalkiewicz wrote: > > > > Does any one have an udated bill of materials? I would like to begin > > ordering wood. > > > > Thank you; > > > > Ryan Michalkiewicz > > > > ------------------------------ > > Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>and > > always stay connected<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43909/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail>to friends. > > > > * > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com* > > > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Hello everyone! I am a bit of a lurker but I saw something about NOT using the Full Size rib template? I have a full set of ribs made to the full size copy you can buy with the plans. Can someone let me know what the concern was / is? Best Regards, Dave Fuse about done, almost ready to start wings! _____ See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing weight
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Clif, I laminated 1"x1.5" strips (alternating grain) with West System and adhesive filler. Here is a photo of the rear spar. Tom > > Ah, Right. > What method of lamination did you use? > > Clif > > > > > > > > > Clif, > > > > The Grega modification cad drawings don't call for routing (they specify > > aircraft spruce). Now I wish I had routed or looked into a built up > > spar -- at least my spars are laminated and strong. > > > > Tom > > > > > > Did you rout the spars as per the plans? > > > > Clif > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Ada Air Expo, Ada, OK
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Hello Piet flyers in North Texas, and Arkansas (or anywhere) The planning for the 2007 Ada Air Expo is coming along nicely. We are looking forward to another great day with a variety of warbird aircraft, aerobatic performers, static displays, radio controlled model aircraft, AND a sanctioned BBQ cookoff event. I do hope so that some Pietenpols can make the trip. I'm the airshow annoucer, and I would enjoy the chance of talking about your airplane with a captive audience. Check out the updated website: www.adaairexpo.com Terry Hall Airport Manager, City of Ada Sky Scout builder ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Humidity can change the dimensions of the paper. The changes to the scaling of the document when it's printed can also have an affect on the accuracy of the dimensions. When I plotted out the points on the jig I built and then compared to the full-scale rib plan there was a difference of about 3/4" in the length. I used MDF for the jig and haven't seen a noticable change due to humidity. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104505#104505 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Roman wrote- >do you chop the throttle when you're just a little above ground? >I maintain about 1200 to 1500 rpm at touchdown, then close the >throttle once the wheels are rolling. this is on tarmac. My engine >is an A-65. Occasionally I hear the wheels rolling before I know I've >landed. Yes... typically, I back the throttle to idle when I'm in the flare. I do hold power down final, especially with a crosswind, but try to go to idle before the mains touch. I'll try reducing power rather than chopping it. I know it sounds like I abruptly chop power and that's what's causing me to bounce, but it isn't that drastic. The airplane is already settling to the runway when I come off the throttle. Another thing to experiment with! First it was the "push the nose over and Stuka dive to final", now it's holding power through the flare and touchdown. I'm sure I'll develop my own technique in time. For now, the biggest change from spam can days has been the "carrier landing" type of approach, like you do in Pitts and other fast planes. Once the power comes off on downwind, it's coming down and you sure don't fly a "square corners" approach. I like it. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Hi Glenn, I built my ribs in the house and in the span of a month. My template was glued down and wood stops screwed thru it. My ribs are all the same size. I guess the only question I have is if the template was correct to begin with. Does "close enough" work in the case? Thanks, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 9:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? Humidity can change the dimensions of the paper. The changes to the scaling of the document when it's printed can also have an affect on the accuracy of the dimensions. When I plotted out the points on the jig I built and then compared to the full-scale rib plan there was a difference of about 3/4" in the length. I used MDF for the jig and haven't seen a noticable change due to humidity. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104505#104505 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Dave, This subject keeps resurfacing. Do a search of the archives and you'll find several discussions about it. In any case, the short answer is that the full size rib plan is a large photocopy, which may or may not be accurate to the plans. The copies are affected by humidity and paper shrinkage. The copy may have been accurate at the time (and location) it was printed, but in your shop, the size may be slightly smaller (or bigger). Just 1% shrinkage can result in a chord reduction of more than 1/2". Overall, the shrinkage shouldn't be a problem - the only real concern is the spar spacing, which should be 28 3/4" center-to-center. The main goal is a full set of ribs with a consistant profile. If your ribs are 1% bigger or smaller, it will not be a concern as long as they are all the same. Lots of builders report that they have built their ribs directly from the full size rib plan. The full size rib plan is handy for a few things: 1.) Shows where BHP introduced the vertical uprights adjacent to the spars (not shown in the 1934 plans) 2.) Can be scaled to locate the diagonals, since no dimensions are given in the plans 3.) Can also be scaled to determine sizes of 1/16" ply gussets. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Knowlton" <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 02, 2007
Hey Bill. Please tell me that the proper measurement is 28 3/4 from the back of the front spar to the front of the back spar and not centre to centre - otherwise I have 16 beautiful albeit incorrect ribs in my shop!!! Scott K >From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Template Problem????? >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:54:16 -0400 > >Dave, > >This subject keeps resurfacing. Do a search of the archives and you'll >find several discussions about it. > >In any case, the short answer is that the full size rib plan is a large >photocopy, which may or may not be accurate to the plans. The copies are >affected by humidity and paper shrinkage. The copy may have been >accurate at the time (and location) it was printed, but in your shop, >the size may be slightly smaller (or bigger). Just 1% shrinkage can >result in a chord reduction of more than 1/2". Overall, the shrinkage >shouldn't be a problem - the only real concern is the spar spacing, >which should be 28 3/4" center-to-center. The main goal is a full set of >ribs with a consistant profile. If your ribs are 1% bigger or smaller, >it will not be a concern as long as they are all the same. Lots of >builders report that they have built their ribs directly from the full >size rib plan. > >The full size rib plan is handy for a few things: >1.) Shows where BHP introduced the vertical uprights adjacent to the >spars (not shown in the 1934 plans) >2.) Can be scaled to locate the diagonals, since no dimensions are >given in the plans >3.) Can also be scaled to determine sizes of 1/16" ply gussets. > > >Bill C. > > _________________________________________________________________ Win a trip for four to a concert anywhere in the world! http://www.mobilelivetour.ca/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Hey Scott, I was just shutting the computer down to go home, and your e-mail popped up. I'm going by the plans, which show 1" spars, and the spacing is 27 3/4" from back side of front spar to front side of back spar (see attached JPG clip). That would translate into 28 3/4" center to center. Maybe you need to re-measure. Didn't you use one of the late Charlie Rubeck's ribs to build your jig? I can't imagine his ribs were all incorrect. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: EAA and Montana
I consider myself to be basically cheap, and as much as I like to spend money, I have to make sure I'm getting maximum value for my money. I feel I get this with my EAA membership. Besides supporting a big organization that is very influential in keeping people like us in the air, there are other immediate tangible benefits. As Oshkosh attendees, the substantial discount you receive on admission just about makes up for about half our membership cost. You also get which ever magazine you choose, be it Sport Pilot or Sport Aviation, etc, and we all know a magazine subscription is worth about $25 bucks itself. So on a dollar for dollar basis you come out good, AND you support aviation in all it's different colors, that plus all the good stuff lurking in the members section of the EAA web site. To me, it's money well spent. The Piet in Roundup Montana intrigues me. My wife is from Roundup, Montana, and her step-father was longtime FBO of the Roundup Airport. I don't know what he may know about the Piet, but he's long since retired, and for whatever reason dosen't much like to talk about his flying days (although, when you get him in the right mood he does have great tales to tell). He also did lots of missionary flying in 3rd world countries. There was a writeup on the Roundup Piet in the BPA newsletter at the beginning of the year. I'd like to track them down and see if I could get a copy of an historic photo or two to add to my office wall. Next time we visit Roundup (probably this summer) you can bet I'll be checking things out! And I'll be sending off a check to donate to the restoration effort. As far as building our plane I'm accumulating knowledge, plans, and tools. Won't be long and I'll be creating a rib jig. It will be NX3746 (already reserved a number). If we ever get rid of this cold and rain up here, I can get to work in the garage shop! tim in Bovey == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == Get your own web address. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Mont. Piet
Date: Apr 02, 2007
First of the checks came in today, thanks guys. I don't want to make too much out of this, but I would like to send off whatever we can gather by next Wed the 11th as I am leaving the 12th to set up for Sun n Fun. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
I asked a fellow, Damian, who's a flight instructor the next airport over. He's an instructor who has a school that teaches Alaskan Bush pilot techniques. Very good instructor who talks down to earth. His claim to fame was to teach Harrison Ford tailwheel for that old movie. Anyway.....his advice to me was to , if comming down at idle, to use a little power to lengthen the flare. This way you decide when you'll touch down. Also on a light plane like a Piet,,,be ready on the flare, if a crosswind catches you, to give a burp of power. The blast across the tail improves the rudder control ten fold. Works like a charm. PS,,, 59 and I still LOVE to learn Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy > > > Roman wrote- > >>do you chop the throttle when you're just a little above ground? >>I maintain about 1200 to 1500 rpm at touchdown, then close the >>throttle once the wheels are rolling. this is on tarmac. My engine >>is an A-65. Occasionally I hear the wheels rolling before I know I've >>landed. > > Yes... typically, I back the throttle to idle when I'm in the flare. I do > hold power down final, especially with a crosswind, but try to go to idle > before the mains touch. I'll try reducing power rather than chopping it. > I know it sounds like I abruptly chop power and that's what's causing me > to bounce, but it isn't that drastic. The airplane is already settling to > the runway when I come off the throttle. > > Another thing to experiment with! First it was the "push the nose over > and Stuka dive to final", now it's holding power through the flare and > touchdown. I'm sure I'll develop my own technique in time. For now, the > biggest change from spam can days has been the "carrier landing" type of > approach, like you do in Pitts and other fast planes. Once the power > comes off on downwind, it's coming down and you sure don't fly a "square > corners" approach. I like it. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. > http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglinemarch07 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Ada Air Expo, Ada, OK
Date: Apr 02, 2007
I flew my plane (GN-1) into Ada last weekend, I met some friends there who also flew in for BBQ down the street at Bob's BBQ. Ada's terminal is a nice facility, well kept, with an internet enabled computer for weather & other information. They also have a nice comfortable crew lounge, and a nice, clean/well kept crew car (a Chevy Suburban, great for getting a group of pilots to & from Bobs or anywhere else in town. The guys at the desk were very helpful and friendly, they gave us all bottled water when we were departing. I'll be back again. I was planning on making the airshow, but a friend's wedding happens to fall on the same day. He is a pilot, he'd understand if I missed the wedding. Terry, I'm sure we'll be back out there before too long, I'd love to see your project sometime! Steve Ruse Norman, OK _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hall Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ada Air Expo, Ada, OK Hello Piet flyers in North Texas, and Arkansas (or anywhere) The planning for the 2007 Ada Air Expo is coming along nicely. We are looking forward to another great day with a variety of warbird aircraft, aerobatic performers, static displays, radio controlled model aircraft, AND a sanctioned BBQ cookoff event. I do hope so that some Pietenpols can make the trip. I'm the airshow annoucer, and I would enjoy the chance of talking about your airplane with a captive audience. Check out the updated website: www.adaairexpo.com Terry Hall Airport Manager, City of Ada Sky Scout builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Knowlton" <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Just came back from the shop. Both Charlie's rib and the 16 I copied from it are 27 3/4 inches from the back of the front spar to the front of the back spar. I guess we're talking the same language. The heartrate is starting to slow down now... Scott >From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing Rib Template Problem????? >Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 18:01:08 -0400 > >Hey Scott, > >I was just shutting the computer down to go home, and your e-mail popped >up. >I'm going by the plans, which show 1" spars, and the spacing is 27 3/4" >from back side of front spar to front side of back spar (see attached >JPG clip). >That would translate into 28 3/4" center to center. >Maybe you need to re-measure. >Didn't you use one of the late Charlie Rubeck's ribs to build your jig? >I can't imagine his ribs were all incorrect. > >Bill > > ><< sparspacing.JPG >> _________________________________________________________________ Win a trip for four to a concert anywhere in the world! http://www.mobilelivetour.ca/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet video now on DVD
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Group, I normally don't advertise my Piet tape here but I finally got somewhat caught up with technology and now offer my 2.5 hour rambling dissertation on the building and flying of my plane on DVD. Info available here: http://users.aol.com/bpabpabpa/cuyvideo.html Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Roman wrote- >Bill told me to keep only 15 lbs. pressure in my 6 x 6.00 tires. >Sorta like a "dead" tennis ball or basket ball I suppose. Well now, see, there's another thing to play with. I run 26-28 psi in the tires on 41CC. I believe that came from different recommendations on this list and a bunch of posts from other Pieters indicated that they run their tires anywhere from 18 to 22 to 26, to Mike Cuy's elaborate technique of "ant's-eye view of inflating tires until the tread just touches the pavement". Of course it would make sense that lower pressure would provide less bounce but I think I'll keep my tire pressure in the mid-20s. Interesting item I found while searching the archives for tire pressure. Dick stated that he holds 1100 RPM down through the flare to minimize bouce. Aha! Confirmation of what you said, Roman. Now I need to get back out there and try holding a little power through the flare instead of going to idle. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
The question is, which type of bounce are you getting? You can get a small bounce from the tires if you drop the plane in from a few inches off the pavement, but the bounce will only be a few inches (somewhat less than the height from which the plane dropped). But you can get a pretty impressive "bounce" from aerodynamics if you touch main wheels first. If the plane is setlling fast and you touch main wheels first, the tail will continue to settle, increasing the angle of attack of the wing and generating enough extra lift to lift the plane off the ground as much as several feet, at which point you run out of airspeed and stall, dropping it in from a siginificant height. With my old J-3 Cub many years ago, I once made a landing where I slipped it over a set of powerlines but didn't pull out of the slip soon enough. I basically flew the plane into the ground hard enough that the bungees extended all the way to the stops (I had grass stains on the belly of the plane). Then as the tail slammed down increasing the angle of attack and starting the bounce, all that energy stored in the bungees launched the plane up to about 10 feet off the ground, where I sat fat dumb and happy with no airspeed. I slammed the throttle wide open and poined the nose down enough to get the plane flying again and managed to salvage the landing, but it was close. Like Roman, I find it easiest to land the Piet with a little power on until the wheels are rolling. Otherwise you have to time the flare very carefully. I spent some time in the pattern with mine yesterday, practicing landings. I can make a good landing without power about one out of every three tries. With power I can generally make a pretty nice landing. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy Roman wrote- >Bill told me to keep only 15 lbs. pressure in my 6 x 6.00 tires. >Sorta like a "dead" tennis ball or basket ball I suppose. Well now, see, there's another thing to play with. I run 26-28 psi in the tires on 41CC. I believe that came from different recommendations on this list and a bunch of posts from other Pieters indicated that they run their tires anywhere from 18 to 22 to 26, to Mike Cuy's elaborate technique of "ant's-eye view of inflating tires until the tread just touches the pavement". Of course it would make sense that lower pressure would provide less bounce but I think I'll keep my tire pressure in the mid-20s. Interesting item I found while searching the archives for tire pressure. Dick stated that he holds 1100 RPM down through the flare to minimize bouce. Aha! Confirmation of what you said, Roman. Now I need to get back out there and try holding a little power through the flare instead of going to idle. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglin eapril07 _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Subject: Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Here I go butting in on a subject of which I know very little about. My test pilot, Edwin Johnson, insisted that I develop my wheel landing technique as soon as possible. He was checking me out on 41CC after a 30 year perod of no tailwheel flying. It worked and helped me get back in the proper timing for a landing. Just a suggestion. Corky ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Hi guys, I used the photocopy and I realize they are slightly different, but it flies great. I think as long as they are all the same it doesn't matter. I really don't think there is enough difference to change the flying qualities. If you want to plot out the coordinates, fine, have fun! If you want to just stick the copy down and build a jig around it, fine, have fun! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104736#104736 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem?????
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
I did the same, Don. Just used the photocopy rib template. I've flown mine and Mike Cuy's Pietenpols and as near as I can tell, they fly the same. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rib Template Problem????? Hi guys, I used the photocopy and I realize they are slightly different, but it flies great. I think as long as they are all the same it doesn't matter. I really don't think there is enough difference to change the flying qualities. If you want to plot out the coordinates, fine, have fun! If you want to just stick the copy down and build a jig around it, fine, have fun! Don Emch NX899DE _________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet video now on DVD
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Mike, Since the site doesn't specifically mention the DVD, I'll ask the obvious question: Is the DVD the same price as the VHS tape ($20 + $4)? Bill C. (gonna have to order a DVD because the old VHS is gettin' worn out) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: DVD-----try this web site
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Bill C. GOOD question and yes, same price for DVD as the VHS. Here is a better web link that sez DVD: http://www.grantmaclaren.com/cuyvideo/ I'm only about 5 years behind the technology curve in entertainment and educational media formats. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: DVD-----try this web site
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Piet video now on DVDI just may be caught up with the technology curve...I have it (and Chuck's DVD) on both DVD AND iPod...hehehehehe...(have had for some time!) But I WON'T make copies for ANYONE!!! nada! no way! ain't gonna DO IT! :-) Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: DVD-----try this web site Bill C. GOOD question and yes, same price for DVD as the VHS. Here is a better web link that sez DVD: http://www.grantmaclaren.com/cuyvideo/ I'm only about 5 years behind the technology curve in entertainment and educational media formats. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Grover Summers <oldaeroplaneworks(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DVD-----try this web site
Guys, I bought Mike's VHS years ago and have viewed it many times. I just placed an order for the DVD because it's more convenient for me than VHS. If you're in doubt about buying the tape/DVD, put your fears to rest and buy it. It's well worth it. Grover "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" wrote: Bill C. GOOD question and yes, same price for DVD as the VHS. Here is a better web link that sez DVD: http://www.grantmaclaren.com/cuyvideo/ I'm only about 5 years behind the technology curve in entertainment and educational media formats. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: thoughts on videos
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
While we are talking documentaries let me remind you all of the good DVD that Jim Markle mentioned that Captain Smoke'em Chuck Gantzer has available too. I'm not into selling stuff or trying to make a fast buck (I did that selling shoes in high school:) but if it can help builders or is something that Piet enthusiast's can enjoy-- it does help to fill the fuel tank from time to time. One added bonus that Chuck and I offer is that our productions are uninterrupted by rude commercial interruptions. Your wife may interrupt your viewing or your kids but at least you don't have to see a commercial for another drug that "may have these 400 side effects." Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Emailing: Antique fly-in Brodhead 007
Date: Apr 03, 2007
OK you Pietenpol purists. Those of you who haven't been to Brodhead last summer for the Midwest Antique Airplane Fly-in. What airfoil do these two planes have? A. Both are Pietenpol airfoils B one has a Riblett 30U-612 airfoil C both have Riblett airfoils Roman Bukolt The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Antique fly-in Brodhead 007 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2007
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Mont. Piet
As th' wife says "it's amazing how small the world gets". She talked to her Mom, who has lived in Roundup, Montana for years. turns out my wife's Uncle Frank Rom used to hang out with David Comstock along with guys names Dick Staunton and Florian Baldwin, along with John Liggett who stored the plane for quite some time. these guys were apparently all buddies who hung around together and worked on that plane together. She had a few second hand stories to tell. She spoke with someone who has seen the restoration project and says the kids and the work they are doing is simply amazing. the spot for the hanger where the plane will be displayed in Roundup is just across the road from where my In-laws go to church, and the property is all flagged and ready to start building. She had also said that she was told that the wings were longer than the plans specified. Don't know about that....second/third hand stories, but that's what she said. I'm fascinated. This is exciting to me, as it has given my wife a bit more of the Pietenpol fever (she thinks I'm quite crazy, with a CH701 under construction already). So, now there's another reason to visit Roundup this summer, besides just seeing the relatives. Oh, and we're coming to Broadhead too..staying at the Gasthaus Motel 15 miles away in Monroe, so hope to view lots of Piets in real life and meet a lot of you! Tim in Bovey == You *can* repair a flip-flop with a capacitor! == Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham and Robyn" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re Tail bracing
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Hi all, does any one have ideas on using Piano wire for tail braces in lieu of 3/32 cable? I had planned on the cable, it would have to be more fatigue resistant, & easier to put around a thimble. Any history of the wire giving trouble in the long term? Thanks Graham Hewitt Piet builder from Perth West OZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Re Tail bracing
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Graham, I used 3/32" 7 x 19 stainless steel cable for my tail bracing and it has been entirely satisfactory for 765 hours of flying. The possibility for fatigue failure of a solid wire over time was a factor in choosing cable. Availability of the SS cable "at the right price" was another. Cheers, Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Date: Apr 03, 2007
I have, over the years, flown four different Pietenpols for a total of perhaps 800 hours. Most of this was on wheels using grass runways and some was on skis. Each of these aircraft (including my own) displayed very similar characteristics and was easy to fly in relatively calm air, but was "squirrelly" in wind and turbulence. Turbulence isn't a real problem until one tries to land. The ground then becomes a moving target. Under these conditions I always do a wheel landing because I can maintain full control before, during and after touchdown. And I generally find wheel landings best on paved runways, too. It is not easy to do consistently good 3-point landings, without a bounce or a skip--even on grass. There is a tendency to overcontrol during the flare phase of a power-off (engine idling) approach. When I catch myself doing this, I make a conscious effort to gently begin the flare a bit sooner and then make small corrections as required. Avoid making coarse control inputs as much as possible, although they are necessary in gusty conditions where finesse is out of the question anyway. The Pietenpol a good trainer. The DeHavilland Gypsy Moth and Tiger Moth are less sensitive and easier to land than my Pietenpol. Both are noted to be good trainers, but in my experience the Pietenpol requires a more delicate touch. The usual cure for a lot of landing problems is to use a bit (not much!) of power on approach and ease it off slowly during the hold-off phase. And if you mis-judge and bounce, don't get frustrated, Even the birds miss sometimes! Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Subject: Re: Wing weight
The morning we trailered the wing from my house to the hanger was drissling, and as soon as we got to the airport, we put it on a bathroom scale. The one piece wing (with 9.7 gal. fiberglass fuel tank and 3/4" Douglas Fir Spars) was complete, including paint and rigging, ready to install. It weighed 110 lbs. We mounted it on the waiting fuselage, and I imediately climbed in and started making airplane noise !! Chuck G. NX770CG ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Subject: Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
In a message dated 4/2/2007 6:25:58 PM Central Daylight Time, conceptmodels(at)tds.net writes: By the way, I don't know how much it would influence the landing, but Bill told me to keep only 15 lbs. pressure in my 6 x 6.00 tires. That's the pressure I use in my 8.00 X 6 tires, too. Chuck G. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2007
Subject: Re: thoughts on videos
Hey Mikee !! Great to see you got all caught up with technology, and put your video on DVD !! A well built Pietenpol like yours, will easily out live those old VHS Tapes. Chuck G. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com>
Excellent post, Graham. Your experiences are very similar to mine. I find the Pietenpol to be an excellent trainer due to the fact you've got to do everything just right to get a perfect landing out of it. My RV-4 on the other hand will let me get sloppy. It is probably the easiest plane to land I've ever flown. I'll fly it for a while and think I'm a pretty good pilot, then fly the Piet and learn the truth, that I still need a bit more practice. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hansen Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy I have, over the years, flown four different Pietenpols for a total of perhaps 800 hours. Most of this was on wheels using grass runways and some was on skis. Each of these aircraft (including my own) displayed very similar characteristics and was easy to fly in relatively calm air, but was "squirrelly" in wind and turbulence. Turbulence isn't a real problem until one tries to land. The ground then becomes a moving target. Under these conditions I always do a wheel landing because I can maintain full control before, during and after touchdown. And I generally find wheel landings best on paved runways, too. It is not easy to do consistently good 3-point landings, without a bounce or a skip--even on grass. There is a tendency to overcontrol during the flare phase of a power-off (engine idling) approach. When I catch myself doing this, I make a conscious effort to gently begin the flare a bit sooner and then make small corrections as required. Avoid making coarse control inputs as much as possible, although they are necessary in gusty conditions where finesse is out of the question anyway. The Pietenpol a good trainer. The DeHavilland Gypsy Moth and Tiger Moth are less sensitive and easier to land than my Pietenpol. Both are noted to be good trainers, but in my experience the Pietenpol requires a more delicate touch. The usual cure for a lot of landing problems is to use a bit (not much!) of power on approach and ease it off slowly during the hold-off phase. And if you mis-judge and bounce, don't get frustrated, Even the birds miss sometimes! Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Subject: Re: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy
As a trainer I will still tout the qualities of the venerable Cessna 150. The 150 spamcan is more sensitive than it's larger Cessna brethren So in order to get a "perfect" landing you need to do everything right from downwind over the fence and thru the flair. Having said that you could almost land sideways and the 150 would forgive you with a loud protest and a safe arrival on the 'Land-o-matic' gear. The 172, designed more as a family transporter, is even more forgiving than the 150 for a "perfect" landing. I owned a 1959 150 and I always was improving my flying and especeially my landings. It had to forgive some pretty bad landings. Good attributes in a trainer, easy to fly safely but requiring "the right stuff" to do it really right. Just lurking the site. I love Piets and would like to have one someday. Just not in the cards right now. Steve Dortch living in Austin, but moving to San Antonio in the near future. Hope to meet you and look your bird over Oscar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal.com> Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2007 6:37 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy > Excellent post, Graham. Your experiences are very similar to mine. > I > find the Pietenpol to be an excellent trainer due to the fact you've > got > to do everything just right to get a perfect landing out of it. My RV-4 > on the other hand will let me get sloppy. It is probably the easiest > plane to land I've ever flown. I'll fly it for a while and think I'm > a > pretty good pilot, then fly the Piet and learn the truth, that I still > need a bit more practice. > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Hansen > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bouncy, bouncy, bouncy > > > > I have, over the years, flown four different Pietenpols for a total of > perhaps 800 hours. Most of this was on wheels using grass runways and > some was on skis. Each of these aircraft (including my own) displayed > very similar characteristics and was easy to fly in relatively calm air, > but was "squirrelly" in wind and turbulence. > > > > Turbulence isn't a real problem until one tries to land. The ground then > becomes a moving target. Under these conditions I always do a wheel > landing because I can maintain full control before, during and after > touchdown. And I generally find wheel landings best on paved runways, > too. > > > > It is not easy to do consistently good 3-point landings, without a > bounce or a skip--even on grass. There is a tendency to overcontrol > during the flare phase of a power-off (engine idling) approach. When > I > catch myself doing this, I make a conscious effort to gently begin the > flare a bit sooner and then make small corrections as required. Avoid > making coarse control inputs as much as possible, although they are > necessary in gusty conditions where finesse is out of the question > anyway. > > > > The Pietenpol a good trainer. The DeHavilland Gypsy Moth and Tiger Moth > are less sensitive and easier to land than my Pietenpol. Both are noted > to be good trainers, but in my experience the Pietenpol requires a more > delicate touch. > > > > The usual cure for a lot of landing problems is to use a bit (not much!) > of power on approach and ease it off slowly during the hold-off phase. > > > > And if you mis-judge and bounce, don't get frustrated, Even the birds > miss sometimes! > > > > Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain > privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have > received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - > Nederlands - N ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Crosswinds & aileron
What is the maximum crosswind you will land in with your Pietenpol? Last weekend I landed in a ~13-14mph direct crosswind on grass. This was one of those crosswinds that is so perpendicular you can't decide which way to land from the windsock, as it will slightly favor one way or the other depending on when you look. My first approach was too fast, I wasn't comfortable slowing to ~50mph in that kind of wind while coming in just a few feet over power lines. The next try, I extended my final past the numbers a little more, and got it slowed down nicely for a full stall landing, touching the tailwheel just before the mains touch, and with almost full up elevator. It made for a nice, actually smooth landing with very little forward speed left. All you have to do is maintain directional control for two to three seconds before you are at a fast taxi speed and easy to control. I was actually a little surprised at how well it went, since I had been considering finding another runway after the first attempt. I did it again later that day from the opposite direction and it went equally well. One problem I run into is stick travel. I can't get both full aileron and full up elevator because my leg is in the way. I guess I could either re-shape the stick or cut my legs off, but re-shaping the stick might give me forward stick problems and I need my legs to work the rudder, so neither option helps much. I've also thought about increasing the radius of the "arm" on the ailerons, but there isn't much room to do that either. Any thoughts? Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: Crosswinds - Stick throws
Date: Apr 04, 2007
hmmm..... how about a digital fly-by-wire control system. just crank up the throws at the ECU. could probably mix in some spoilerons at that point and just toss up the spoilers on touch down. Actually I have done just that in an AirCamper. No kidding. It had fly-by-wire control system, and the ailerons could be mixed to act as spoilers or flaps. Also was able to digitally mix in some differential aileron throw to help with adverse yaw. Flew great! a bit small though.... 48" wingspan and electric powered. DJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Crosswinds & aileron
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Hey, I like the one about notching your leg enough to allow for more stick travel! Actually, a nice Rube Goldberg setup would be to have a handgrip lever on the stick that would engage a reduction gear, say 2:1, to double the cable travel per unit of stick travel when needed. Or instead of standard aileron cable pulleys, you could use some cam pulleys like the ones used on compound bows to ratchet up the cable action as you near the end of the pulley rotation. Try getting those puppies past your DAR or Tech Counselor-! And side note to Mr. Dortch in Austin- there are two other gents in the Austin area who I've threatened to hook up with sometime by possibly flying 41CC in to the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome just outside of Seguin ( http://www.vintageaviation.org/aerodrome/index.html ). Maybe we can do that one of these Saturdays so you can see my airplane and maybe go for a ride. As an added bonus, one of the aircraft in the museum at Old Kingsbury is a Pietenpol Sky Scout... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Cant afford to quit your job? Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in 1 year. http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: New Prop
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
A few months back I started considering a new prop for my A-65 powered Piet. It had a 72 x 44 Hegy on it. I bought it used and the previous owner claimed it was re-pitched by Hegy to a 72 x 42. However it was not marked as such. So I don't know for sure but I think it was probably still a 72 x 44. Anyway I was getting decent climb and decent speed but that really isn't the right combination for a Piet. In talking with a lot of the old timers and several propmakers I decided it needed something flatter and since I have plenty of ground clearance, something longer for more thrust area. After talking to Ed Sterba for a few months we decided to try a 76 x 38. This size and pitch is not available from anyone as an off-the-shelf prop. But Ed can custom carve. He has some shapes and profiles that he typically carves but I wanted something that looked a little like the props I had seen on Mr. Pietenpol's ships in the 30's. Ed Sterba is a very talented guy that can carve a prop profile based on pictures. So I sent him several shots of old Piets. He used these to hand carve a cool looking 76 x 38 prop. I was hoping to gain a little rpm with the flatter pitch, but I knew the length might keep it down. He suggested cutting it down to 74" if my rpm is still a little low, but I hate to lose all that effective thrust area. Well, I finally got the prop and tried it out over the weekend. The rpm did not increase at all like I was hoping for. I get about 1950 rpm static. But there was a great increase in the climb. No increase in rpm, but there must be quite a bit more thrust. The real surprise came when I leveled off. I was expecting quite a loss in top end and cruise. I still topped out at 95 mph, which is way too fast for a Piet! Too many weird things going on at that speed! Cruise was still upper 70's. I was expecting 70 at best. During my test run it started to rain fairly hard so I was only up about 15 minutes. I only got to make one take off which is what I'm most interested in. I do kn! ow that I flew the day before with my other prop in almost identical conditions and was easily off nearly 100 feet quicker. Another bonus of the prop is the terrific smoothness. Ed does a fantastic job of balancing. I'm struggling a little with the rpm, I'd like a little more, but other than that I'm very, very happy with the prop. Unfortunately I had to wait over 9 weeks for the thing but he did a super job and it is well worth it. Highly recommended!! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104965#104965 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Prop
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I just read my last post and one statement didn't come out quite right. I meant to say I was off about 100 feet quicker with the new prop. Once again, I'm really happy with the new prop. It gives the ship a real kick in the tail! If I could just get that rpm up a little bit... Don E. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=104968#104968 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Crosswinds & aileron
Oscar, You must be an Engineer. :^) Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crosswinds & aileron > > > Hey, I like the one about notching your leg enough to allow for more stick > travel! Actually, a nice Rube Goldberg setup would be to have a handgrip > lever on the stick that would engage a reduction gear, say 2:1, to double > the cable travel per unit of stick travel when needed. Or instead of > standard aileron cable pulleys, you could use some cam pulleys like the > ones used on compound bows to ratchet up the cable action as you near the > end of the pulley rotation. Try getting those puppies past your DAR or > Tech Counselor-! > > And side note to Mr. Dortch in Austin- there are two other gents in the > Austin area who I've threatened to hook up with sometime by possibly > flying 41CC in to the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome just outside of Seguin ( > http://www.vintageaviation.org/aerodrome/index.html ). Maybe we can do > that one of these Saturdays so you can see my airplane and maybe go for a > ride. As an added bonus, one of the aircraft in the museum at Old > Kingsbury is a Pietenpol Sky Scout... > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Can't afford to quit your job? - Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in > 1 year. > http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Canadian TX Piet
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Steve I tried to E-mail you using the address listed but it bounced.I'm only about 60 miles from there-thought you might tell me more.Raymond Hanover Skellytown TX. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105001#105001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: New Prop
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Don, I just received my 74 X 38 prop I had Ed Sterba build for me. Beautiful prop. Hope to have my engine together within the month and will give it a try. One reason I chose Sterba to build the prop is he will repitch it as many times as you want for free. As soon as I fly behind the prop I'll post a report. Gene N502kR> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject: Re: Crosswinds & aileron
Date: Apr 04, 2007
On my minimax, I had an aluminum stick bent like one of those things used in electrical conduit. Had a dogleg in it and came up over my leg and back further. Due to shoulder pain with a straight stick. dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Crosswinds & aileron > > Oscar, > You must be an Engineer. :^) > Walt Evans > NX140DL > "No one ever learned anything by talking" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 3:45 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crosswinds & aileron > > > > > > > > Hey, I like the one about notching your leg enough to allow for more stick > > travel! Actually, a nice Rube Goldberg setup would be to have a handgrip > > lever on the stick that would engage a reduction gear, say 2:1, to double > > the cable travel per unit of stick travel when needed. Or instead of > > standard aileron cable pulleys, you could use some cam pulleys like the > > ones used on compound bows to ratchet up the cable action as you near the > > end of the pulley rotation. Try getting those puppies past your DAR or > > Tech Counselor-! > > > > And side note to Mr. Dortch in Austin- there are two other gents in the > > Austin area who I've threatened to hook up with sometime by possibly > > flying 41CC in to the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome just outside of Seguin ( > > http://www.vintageaviation.org/aerodrome/index.html ). Maybe we can do > > that one of these Saturdays so you can see my airplane and maybe go for a > > ride. As an added bonus, one of the aircraft in the museum at Old > > Kingsbury is a Pietenpol Sky Scout... > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > San Antonio, TX > > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Can't afford to quit your job? - Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in > > 1 year. > > http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Squishing the ends
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Anyone have a good method to ensure the squished ends of the spreader bars (wood gear), rudder bar, and tube connecting the sticks are in the same plane (or parallel or however you would describe it). I can squish them just fine. I just cant seem to get both end in the same plane. Any suggestions? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Crosswinds & aileron
Date: Apr 04, 2007
As I recall the BD-10 jet had two control sticks. One for one for high speed and a less sensitive one for low speed. Maybe you can add a side stick with more throw. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Crosswinds & aileron > > > Hey, I like the one about notching your leg enough to allow for more stick > travel! Actually, a nice Rube Goldberg setup would be to have a handgrip > lever on the stick that would engage a reduction gear, say 2:1, to double > the cable travel per unit of stick travel when needed. Or instead of > standard aileron cable pulleys, you could use some cam pulleys like the > ones used on compound bows to ratchet up the cable action as you near the > end of the pulley rotation. Try getting those puppies past your DAR or > Tech Counselor-! > > And side note to Mr. Dortch in Austin- there are two other gents in the > Austin area who I've threatened to hook up with sometime by possibly > flying 41CC in to the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome just outside of Seguin ( > http://www.vintageaviation.org/aerodrome/index.html ). Maybe we can do > that one of these Saturdays so you can see my airplane and maybe go for a > ride. As an added bonus, one of the aircraft in the museum at Old > Kingsbury is a Pietenpol Sky Scout... > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Can't afford to quit your job? - Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in > 1 year. > http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: New question from and old brain
Date: Apr 04, 2007
Just a quick question for the group so that I can say "DOH - Why didn't I see that?" This refers to the page of the original Pietenpol family drawings labeled Drawing No. 1: looking at the middle fuselage diagram labeled: Inside Constructional View of Fuselage. Thus we are looking at a plan view of the top of the fuselage. Located at the tail are three dimensions: 7", 6" and 2". The 2" dimension appears to be a 1/8" gusset plate set above the top rails. I believe this location is where the horizontal stab would attach. If this is so, it would seem that a 1/8" gusset plate would not be strong enough to hold the stab in place. Am I missing something here? The rest of the fuse is far enough along that I was able to sit in it for the first time and make airplane noises. What a blast! Tom Stinemetze The Airplane Nut ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Squishing the ends
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2007
I haven't had to do this yet but could you devise some kind of clamp that makes it easy to square things up with respect to a side. If you used blocks to raise the clamp up to the level of the vise, the clamp might help keep your reference angle the same on both ends. I'm sure there are other ways to do this but these problems with custom solutions are the things I love about this project. Should be easy enough to make too. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=105054#105054 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/clamp_156.gif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: New question from and old brain
Date: Apr 04, 2007
My take on it. The stab is not attached to the 1/8th-inch plate. I believe the plans want you to screw the stab into the longeron. Check out the note on the next page that says attach longeron with 1-3/4-inch No. 7 screws. Also notice the spacing on the holes, it seems to match the width of the fuselage. I don't plan on using screws. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New question from and old brain > > > Just a quick question for the group so that I can say "DOH - Why didn't > I see that?" > This refers to the page of the original Pietenpol family drawings > labeled Drawing No. 1: looking at the middle fuselage diagram labeled: > Inside Constructional View of Fuselage. Thus we are looking at a plan > view of the top of the fuselage. Located at the tail are three > dimensions: 7", 6" and 2". The 2" dimension appears to be a 1/8" gusset > plate set above the top rails. I believe this location is where the > horizontal stab would attach. If this is so, it would seem that a 1/8" > gusset plate would not be strong enough to hold the stab in place. Am I > missing something here? > > The rest of the fuse is far enough along that I was able to sit in it > for the first time and make airplane noises. What a blast! > > Tom Stinemetze > The Airplane Nut > > ____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 05, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Crosswinds & aileron

March 21, 2007 - April 05, 2007

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ft