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Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ga
August 06, 2007 - August 28, 2007

>one. Better yet, see if you can get some instruction or stick time in >one, not just around the pattern but on a short x-c hop (20 mi. will be >enough). > >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >_________________________________________________________________ >A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. >http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Bakeng Deuce
Zaggy, I believe both Gene and Jack have pointed to the Bakeng Deuce as an alternative to the Piet, given your need for more speed. I can speak to that point to a degree. I visited the Bakeng facility in Kenosha last year between my visits to the 2006 Brodhead and Oshkosh events. Austin Cole, the CEO, and I share a very good friend, Don S. who made introductions to facilitate my visit. Austin proved to be a very gracious fellow and showed me what he had done, in detail. He has improved many aspects of the original design, taken it all to CAD/CAM, and now sells plans, kits and parts. BTW, Mr. Cole knew that my interest was to pick up tricks in building my Piet. The plane is much more aerodynamic than a Piet, and is absolutely gorgeous. It will cruise at the speeds you want. When I first saw the plane I wondered if Jim Bakeng, a Boeing engineer at the time I think, started with the Piet in his mind, and updated each aspect of it to (some) much later materials and design. The design is much more elaborate than a Piet, as well as later, and was built with modern aircraft engines in mind. The pilot's cockpit is similar in size and shape to a Piet. It was a tight fit for me, at 6'1" and 250 plus. I don't recall seeing a baggage compartment, but that is likely just a memory problem. Your engine may well work in the Deuce, but I think the website recommends 125-160 hp. Specs are based on a 150 hp Lycoming. The plane is not a light sport aircraft in the USA, and likely not the similar rating in Canada. Construction is welded steel tubing. I don't know if these factors are considerations for you. You can buy a fuselage kit and other parts to speed constructionand you may need to do that to meet your timetable. If you want to spend as much as the Deuce may cost, it offers a great building and flying experience. Did I say it's gorgeous? OTOH, if you have a more limited budget as most of us Pieters do, you can build a Piet that looks great, too, flying slower and more cheaply. The guys on this site will certainly help. Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Yep, another wing question..
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Hi, I didn't use the full size rib template because the exact dimensions are given in the plans and I figured since paper size changes with the weather I'd stick with the given dimensions. If you look at the 3 piece wing, 3/4" spar is all they talk about on that page. So after talking to Chuck on this forum I used the center line of the spar and placed my gussets such that the 3/4" spars line are centered where the 1" spars would be centered. I didn't cut circles for gussets, I made a separate gusset template for each of the 15 gussets and made batches of them (there will be a few extra sizes for the 6 ribs that have vertical members in the truss). Because I took that approach there was very little waste and I got all of my gussets out of about $50 of plywood from Aircraft Spruce. Although I think the area between the cut circles is waste, that waste is recovered in time savings (a transferred cost). My gussets took me a while to produce but I was willing to do them that way to get the look I was going for, limit waste, and save some money. Hope this helps. Keep at it. 32 finished well made ribs is a very nice thing to look at when they're all stacked up next to each other and exactly the same. Good luck! -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127799#127799 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: New to group...here's my delima
Welcome to the list Zaggy, Your needs are considerable. I haven't heard of anyone quoting a 100 mph cruise in a Piet. I think 70 is more the average. 3-400 miles doesn't sound like much fun. I'm building a Pietenpol and flying a Baby Ace while building. Two hours in the Baby Ace is really a test of *my *endurance. To get the kind of range you want, you would probably need to carry more fuel than would be under safe gross weight with two 200 pound passengers in a Pietenpol, and there would be nowhere to put your overnight bags. One last thing, unless you are retired and plan to work on it full time, you are getting started a little late...I'm sure others will weigh in too, but I've been working on my Piet for 2.5 years and could easily only be half done. Don't get me wrong, the Pietenpol is a great plane in its element, but generally when a passenger is carried its flown low and slow for short hops. Ben Charvet Mims,Fl NX866BC Piet under construction N39D Baby Ace zaggy wrote: > >Hi everyone, new to the group and seeking some advice from those that have built and are flying. > >2009 is the 100th anniversary fo flight in Canada. > >There is a coast to coast tour of "Antique and Vintage" aircraft that will fly from Comox, British Columbia to Baddeck, Nova Scotia (the home of the first flight in Canada)through the summer of 2009. The tour is stopping at every museum that is a member of the "Canadian Aeronautical Preservation Association"(including our museum. > >I've decided I would like to take part in the full tour with my daughter, seems to me it's one of those "life" moments and I would like to take advantage of it. > >The problem....what to build to fly in it? > >-The engine I have, built it for an aircraft I was partners in, partner had an accident, 1.6L 100hp and it's a known quantity. Swings a 70" 3 blade prop to 2750rpm no sweat. Reliable with a little over 100hrs on it. > >-Airframe? > 2 full size adult seating(I'm 6"2", 220lbs) with dual controls > Small amount of baggage (couple overnight bags) > 100mph cruise > Handle off field landings well > 3-400 mile range plus 1hr reserve > Easy to build > Vintage look > >Top of my list, that I have done a pile of resarch on: >- Heavily cleaned up Pietenpol > (raised turtle deck, fairings every where, tight cowl, wheel pants) > Thinking of the Riblett airfoil > >- 2 seat version of the Fly Baby (Plans now availabile) > (cleaned up raised deck, wheel pants etc) > >I have access to full metal and wood working tools and a few experienced types to help out. > >Thoughts, suggestions? > >Tom H > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127656#127656 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick N's cool Piet
From: "wjnorris" <wjnorris(at)metallube.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
(I am trying to get this message to Dick) Hi Dick, I purchased a Nieuport 28 kit from Robert Baslee and I will be installing a 110hp seven cylinder Rotec engine. I had been trying to come up with a decent looking instrument panel when I came across the photos of your Piet on Rotecs web page. Is that dial switch above the quadcombo gauge used for monitoring the engines cht or egt for each cylinder? I would like to reproduce your instruments configuration for my 28. Do you think it possible to share that info with me? Hope to hear from you soon. William J. Norris P.O. Box 7650 Carolina, PR 00986 tel: 1-787-769-7670 fax: 1-787-769-7700 cell: 1-787-215-3590 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127804#127804 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Alum. thickness
Members of the list: In need of recomendations for header tank alum. thickness and type. Any information is much needed. This will be the weekend I can test my brother-in-law on his alum. welding skills! Ken H Fargo, ND --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alum. thickness
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I made my tank out of .040" 5052-H32 aluminum. Good luck! Be sure to leak test it - you'll be amazed how many pinholes you will find after welding (I had 63 in mine) Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alum. thickness Members of the list: In need of recomendations for header tank alum. thickness and type. Any information is much needed. This will be the weekend I can test my brother-in-law on his alum. welding skills! Ken H Fargo, ND _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: speed and time
I agree with what many here are saying. Our piet can reach 100 mph in level flight. HOWEVER, it is not fun. IMO, the Piet without dihedral is dynamically neutrally stable. Any little bump requires correction immediately. This is enjoyable at 70 mph. It's frenetic at 100 mph. As to time in the air, I've actually never flown for two hours. The longest flight I've made in the Piet is about 1 hour. It was still fun at that point, but I was glad to bring 'er in. I of course went back up after lunch, and I think that that is the essence of Piet flying: Several hops per day = fun. -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Subject: Re: Alum. thickness
Jack, You are a better welder than I. I had to use .050 thick aluminum. (Had 5 leaks). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alum. thickness
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Well, I'm working on memory of something I did 5 years ago. Mine may well have been .050". I didn't weld it, but had my neighbor (who has a TIG welding rig) do it. Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alum. thickness Jack, You are a better welder than I. I had to use .050 thick aluminum. (Had 5 leaks). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ AOL.com. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Alum. thickness
That makes me feel better, I welded mine using .040 5052 and had about 5 leaks to fix and was wondering if I should start over. Rick On 8/6/07, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: > > Jack, > > You are a better welder than I. I had to use .050 thick aluminum. (Had 5 > leaks). > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ------------------------------ > AOL.com. > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Yep, another wing question..
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Go to a hobby shop and by 1 ft x 4 ft. 1/16" birch plywood for about $10 per sheet for your rib gussets. Roman Bukolt ----- Original Message ----- From: "kb2qqm" <kb2qqm(at)mac.com> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Yep, another wing question.. > > thanks for the input. I have checked my plans book and sheets and all I > see are drawings for a 1 inch spar. The full size rib plan also has the > 1" spar. Are there specific drawings/plans for the 3/4" spars ? Am I > missing a plan sheet ? > > I have the full size rib template mounted under plexi-glass, and dread > re-doing it, but if there is a drawing for it, it would be easier to re-do > the jig now, and save gobs of time later. > > > I also saw the idea for the 1/16" rib gussets fabricated out of 2 & 1/2" > circles cut in half. Instead of the individual pre-cut gussets. Which > would save allot of time, except for the few that are needed cut to size > around the spars. > > A question on the wood for the gussets. I see the aircraft plywood at > Aircraft Spruce. Cha-Ching ! $100+ something dollars.. > Is it possible to use marine grade plywood, or something cheaper in price > but with the same strength? What are my options? > I definately want quality, as I don't want to hear "crack" at 2000 AGL. > > Greg [Shocked] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127710#127710 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair cowling
Date: Aug 06, 2007
For whatever the reason, the link to Hans' site won't work for me. Any suggestions? Hans VanderVoort has an award winning Piet/Vair with a J-3 style cowling. Check it out at http://hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index ----- Original Message ----- Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: cruising at 100 MPH
Date: Aug 06, 2007
I can get about 105 mph, 2600 rpm, but got Lycosaur 0-235 for power and Aeronca D wings. Not much fun at 105, ears flappin' like a dog with it's head out the window. Much more fun at 70 mph. Fuel burn out of 20 gal tank 6.5 gal/hr while hot footin' it, so about 2.5 hrs range. Still not much fun getting beat by the wind just to get from point A to B. Much more fun flying along Interstate and seeing all the traffic going faster. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:33 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cruising at 100 MPH > > > I am glad to see Jack and Oscar speak to the 100 mph cruising speed > objective. From other posts re the Riblett airfoil, it seems possible to > pick up 10 mph gain in cruise with that alone, but every other change to > gain speed will be a stretch, because of the inherently draggy design. > Using an A-65, most likely you might see 85 mph "comfortable cruise" > instead of a comparable 75 mph cruise. Adding more hp might not make much > more difference, either, as both Oscar and Jack point out. > > If you will be flying with antiques and vintage aircraft, what is wrong > with a slower cruising speed? Some of the flock must have slower cruising > speeds than the Piet, and a convoy moves at the speed of its slowest > element. > > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- >>From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> >>Sent: Aug 6, 2007 8:39 AM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cruising at 100 MPH >> >> >> >>Well put, Oscar. >> >>I would be very concerned with trying to cruise at 100 mph in a >>Pietenpol. The design is so inherently "draggy" that I would expect it >>to require in excess of 150 hp to get it to that kind of speed. A >>Pietenpol does not have significantly less drag than most biplanes, and >>few of them will cruise over 100 mph with less than 150 hp. Nor will a >>Super Cub. A bigger engine means more weight, and a bigger gas tank >>(again more weight) and this change leads to that change, etc., etc. >> >>The design of the wing is such that the drag wires will see large loads >>at speeds over 100 mph. Most planes have their drag wires and anti-drag >>wires arranged so that the angle between the drag wires and the spars is >>approximately 45 degrees. The Pietenpol has exceptionally long bays >>between the compression struts and the angle between the wires and the >>spars is closer to 25 degrees (I don't have my plans handy to verify the >>exact angle). That causes two problems - because the bays are long, >>each drag wire is carrying the drag of a longer section of spar, and >>because the angle is shallow, the tensile load on the wire is increased. >>Maybe the Riblett design has a different arangement of the >>drag/anti-drag wires. I haven't seen the design of that wing. >> >>I agree with your comments about speed in the Piet, Oscar. I've had >>mine over 90 a couple of times and while it wasn't unsafe, the plane >>just didn't feel right at that speed. And with the way a Pietenpol >>bounces around in turbulence, I would not be comfortable flying it that >>fast in rough air, even if I had an engine that could drag it through >>the air at those speeds. >> >>I would be curious to see what kind of fairings and cowlings could be >>added to streamline a Piet. All the external bracing wires would have >>to be made of streamlined wire, of course, or replaced with streamlined >>struts. A bubble canopy would help, as well as a fully cowled engine. >>In the end, I think you would have more of a Pober Super Ace or a Bakeng >>Duece. >> >>Jack Phillips >>Enjoying "Low and Slow" in my Pietenpol >>If I want to fly High and Fast, I take the RV4 >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar >>Zuniga >>Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:10 AM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cruising at 100 MPH >> >>--> >> >>Before I flew a Piet I used to read posts from those who did have flight >>experience, telling how the Piet "feels" best cruising something like >>65-80 MPH. I couldn't imagine or visualize the issue with cruising at >>speeds higher than that. Now that I have one I can fly, I know what >>that means. >> >>I've had 41CC to redline airspeed (95 MPH or thereabouts) a couple of >>times. >> It doesn't feel unsafe, it doesn't feel squirrelly, but it doesn't >>feel like it wants to be there, either. I can't imagine cruising it at >>100 MPH, aerodynamic cleanup or not, and I doubt that you'd be happy >>trying to operate it there. >> >>Before you jump into a Piet project thinking you'll make a "Super Piet" >>that will go faster and carry more than a stock Piet, take a ride in >>one. Better yet, see if you can get some instruction or stick time in >>one, not just around the pattern but on a short x-c hop (20 mi. will be >>enough). >> >>Oscar Zuniga >>San Antonio, TX >>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. >>http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us >> >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________ >> >>or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please >>notify the sender >> >>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - >>Norsk - Portuguese >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: New to group...here's my delima
Date: Aug 06, 2007
You are right! 2009 is indeed the 100th anniversary of the first flight of a heavier-than-air machine in Canada. The pilot of the SILVER DART was J. A. D. McCurdy and the flight was made at Baddeck, Nova Scotia on February 23, 1909. The planned coast to coast tour sounds like an excellent idea, but I don't think the Pietenpol is the right airplane for the job. As pointed out by others in this group, the Pietenpol is definitely not a 100mph airplane. Initially I had an A65 Continental in mine and it cruised at 75 mph. For many years it has had a C85 engine which gives a cruise of about 80 to 85 mph, depending on the choice of propeller. With the C85, I have reserve power and full throttle in level flight gives only about 88 mph indicated at over 2500 rpm. I have had mine indicating 100 mph in a shallow dive without anything shaking or breaking, but it isn't a comfortable feeling because one is exceeding what seems to be the natural "hull speed" of this draggy design. Then there is little or no space for baggage or gear in a Pietenpol when carrying a passenger. It isn't the most comfortable aircraft to sit in for extended trips, either. After 1.5 hours I am looking forward to landing and doing a "walkabout". I have nothing but admiration for the people who have flown Pietenpols on long trips. But, in most cases, I believe they were flying solo and had room for some baggage and extra fuel. Certainly, having a passenger would make the whole operation much more difficult, as well as compromising the aircraft's performance. Keep in mind the fact that a Pietenpol is a small airplane designed at a time when people were smaller and lighter, and the primary objective was to just go flying. Not far, not high and definitely not fast! Years ago, Peter M. Bowers wrote an article titled something like this: PIETENPOL: THE PASTURE PILOT'S PRIDE AND JOY. He pretty well summed up the Pietenpol's capabilities and limitations and ended by saying that the Pietenpol is in a class by itself as a sportplane and it should not compared to lightplanes with similar power such as the Taylorcraft, Luscombe, etc. Having owned both Taylorcraft and Luscombe airplanes, I completely agree with him. The Pietenpol is ideal for puttering around locally and is lots of fun to fly, but the T'Craft and Luscombe outshine it for cross country flying. With this in mind, why don't you take a look at getting a good vintage lightplane for the tour? A Luscombe 8E or 8F will give you the 100 mph cruise you are looking for and you won't have to build it within a limited time frame. Cheers, Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Camrose, Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GlennThomas(at)flyingwood.com" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair cowling
Date: Aug 07, 2007
MessageHi, The reason is that the file index is incomplete. Leave it off and try just going to : http://hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Stinemetze To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cowling For whatever the reason, the link to Hans' site won't work for me. Any suggestions? Hans VanderVoort has an award winning Piet/Vair with a J-3 style cowling. Check it out at http://hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index ----- Original Message ----- Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Alum. thickness
Date: Aug 06, 2007
3003, .040 ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP<mailto:kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> To: Pietenpol Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 3:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alum. thickness Members of the list: In need of recomendations for header tank alum. thickness and type. Any information is much needed. This will be the weekend I can test my brother-in-law on his alum. welding skills! Ken H Fargo, ND http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New to group...here's my delima
From: "zaggy" <eahs.execdir(at)interbaun.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
Well guys I really appreciate the input. I came to the list to hear real world informatioin and you have been great! Researching the Piet I have seen claims of 90mph cruise on 85hp, useful loads of 650lbs with a gross of 1500lbs. So when I found this site I felt I would get some REAL answers and you have helped me in spades. I am not disappointed with what you are telling me about the Pietenpol at all as what you are saying fits with the Offical Piet site and I certainly don't think less of the aircraft...it does what it is meant to do well. The reason for the short notice is that the "Back to Baddeck" tour has just been annouced...but I have been chewing on this project for a while, it just gave me the excuse to get in gear! So now I need to decide if I can live with the real world facts or search for a different airframe. To balance things out, that doesn't eliminate the Piet, I will still be flying after the cross country flight, and it sounds like for my general kins of flying it fits the bill. Once again I appreciate all your help and information...now to do some thinking. Graham, you and I have met. I am in Edmonton and have been to some of the Fly In's with the EHAA guys. The vintage light planes you mention are great but have most of the same limitations...narrow seating is the biggie. Owned a Cessna 120 for a number of years and it was tight with 2 Albertans and fuel restricted at legal gross...mind you I still wish I had never sold it. Thats why I am looking at tandem seating designs...little more room for big guys has been my though. Hope to see you around the Fly Ins and thanks again everyone! Tom H Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127881#127881 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cruising at 100 MPH
From: "zaggy" <eahs.execdir(at)interbaun.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
As I mentioned on the other thread...thanks guys the real world answers have cleared up alot of mis information I have seen on other sites. I am now convinced the Piet is not a 100mph bird and I need to decide if I can live with the facts or need to look at a different airframe. Thanks again Tom H Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127886#127886 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: speed and time
From: "zaggy" <eahs.execdir(at)interbaun.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
thanks I appreciate the info Tom H Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127887#127887 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bakeng Deuce
From: "zaggy" <eahs.execdir(at)interbaun.com>
Date: Aug 06, 2007
thanks Tim Everyone on the site has been great and I appreciate the honest interest everyone has shown. Looks like it is time to do some rethinking. Thanks Tom H Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127888#127888 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Subject: Re: Yep, another wing question..
In a message dated 8/6/2007 5:32:04 PM Central Daylight Time, conceptmodels(at)tds.net writes: Go to a hobby shop and by 1 ft x 4 ft. 1/16" birch plywood for about $10 per sheet for your rib gussets. It is suggested that you slightly rough up the glue side of the Birch Plywood with #80 grit sandpaper, before cutting it into gussets...the Birch usually has a bit of a slick finish, and roughing it up gives it better adhesion. Chuck G. NX770CG http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 06, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Rib Clamping
You need a different magnet. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32066&cat=1,42363,42348 http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32065&cat=1,42363,42348 Also, are you drilling out shallow holes to bring the magnet flush with the board? If so, why not just glue them in? Clif > I also learned that those magnets are very very brittle. Screwing them > down to the board, I broke 6 of them. I will post some of my pics soon. > > Greg > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Rib Clamping
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Just to let you know there are lots of "rare earth magnet" bargains on ebay. I bought some to make some jigs that attach to the metal top of the table saw. Would it be easier to use a piece of steel as a rib building board and glue the guide blocks on to it and then simply use loose magnets on top of the gussets and against the cap strips. They would stick anywhere. Steve in Maine >From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Magnetic Rib Clamping >Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:46:00 -0700 > > >You need a different magnet. > >http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32066&cat=1,42363,42348 > >http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32065&cat=1,42363,42348 > >Also, are you drilling out shallow holes to bring the magnet >flush with the board? If so, why not just glue them in? > >Clif > > >>I also learned that those magnets are very very brittle. Screwing them >>down to the board, I broke 6 of them. I will post some of my pics soon. >> >>Greg >> > > _________________________________________________________________ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sky Scout not sold---remains at Brodhead
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Slight change in the program to my previous post about Dennis Hall selling his Sky Scout to a gent in Michigan. Dennis changed his mind about selling and the plane will remain as is with Dennis in Brodhead. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rod wooller" <rodwooller(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair cowling
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Tom I typed www.hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index and got in no trouble. Rod Wooller >From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cowling >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:38:59 -0500 > >For whatever the reason, the link to Hans' site won't work for me. Any >suggestions? > Hans VanderVoort has an award winning Piet/Vair with a J-3 style > > cowling. Check it out at http://hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index > > ----- Original Message ----- >Tom Stinemetze >____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > > ><< ClearDayBkgrd.JPG >> _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: Make shopping exciting. Find what you want at www.eBay.com.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: HP vs Speed, Wing Spars
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! Would?most likely?also require a "slightly" larger rudder to offset takeoff torque...and your range/endurance would probably drop to one "bump and go."?? Regarding wing spars -- If using 1-inch thick spars per BHP plans, then it is recommended to?rout the spars to save some weight -- but the top and bottoms of the spars are 1-inch thick.? If using 3/4-inch thick spars, DO NOT rout the spars and 1/4-inch of material is added where the ribs meet the spars if the ribs are built per the BHP plans. That is the difference. If I'm wrong on this, somebody please correct me.? Meanwhile, my Piet project is now sitting on the landing gear in the basement. I've been doing some finishing work (i.e. sanding) on the tail surfaces and working out the brake arrangement and other details. Hope to post some pics one of these days... Was great to see everyone at Brodhead, especially Mike Cuy, Jack Phillips and their compadres?from Ohio --?also Ken Perkins.? I photographically documented Don Emch's "reveille" flight at 5:46 a.m. Saturday morning at Brodhead. I had walked over for a shower about 5:00 a.m. thinking that surely I would be first in line, but you have to get up pretty early to get ahead of Piet builders/flyers/enthusiasts! There were already three fellows ahead of me! I think this is also a function of the Piet's cruise speed -- being associated with Pietenpol airplanes has gradually made us all evolve into creatures that need to?get an early start on all endeavors that we undertake! (And?earlier to bed, too!) Anyway, it was a beautiful sunrise that morning with just a wisp of ground fog and fun to see Don go out on the dawn patrol! Gonna be hot and humid today -- even my Nissan PU and the dog are?feeling the affects of increased density altitude! Fred B. La Crosse, WI? *??Please note, however,?that quadrupling the number of horses hitched to?a stage coach, hay wagon or manure spreader?will not necessarily result in doubled speed -- although I don't know if anyone has proved/disproved this.?Reminds me of the story my late dear Grampa told me about the horse-drawn manure spreader he was driving back around 1910 when a bee?stung one of the horses...said there was sh__ flying as high as the tree tops! ? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Winter <twinter1(at)unl.edu>
Subject: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Ok, aviation fans. I've got a basement wall lined with shelves full of old aviation mags, and probably so do you. This article is not in my collection. Everybody, check in yours. First to find it, please scan it and post it. Or give the magazine name and date. From there I can get it through interlibrary loan. "Years ago, Peter M. Bowers wrote an article titled something like this: PIETENPOL: THE PASTURE PILOT'S PRIDE AND JOY. He pretty well summed up the Pietenpol's capabilities and limitations and ended by saying that the Pietenpol is in a class by itself as a sportplane..." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 07, 2007
I scanned the article several years ago and it's on mykitplane.com..... -----Original Message----- From: "Tom Winter" <twinter1(at)unl.edu> Sent: 8/7/07 9:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article Ok, aviation fans. I've got a basement wall lined with shelves full of old aviation mags, and probably so do you. This article is not in my collection. Everybody, check in yours. First to find it, please scan it and post it. Or give the magazine name and date. From there I can get it through interlibrary loan. "Years ago, Peter M. Bowers wrote an article titled something like this: PIETENPOL: THE PASTURE PILOT'S PRIDE AND JOY. He pretty well summed up the Pietenpol's capabilities and limitations and ended by saying that the Pietenpol is in a class by itself as a sportplane..." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date: Aug 07, 2007
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=181 -------- Chris Tracy WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127951#127951 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: HP vs Speed
Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub would need 1200 Hp. Mike Hardaway ---- tbyh(at)aol.com wrote: > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! [snip] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: HP vs Speed
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
I stand corrected! FWB -----Original Message----- From: bike.mike(at)charter.net Sent: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:33 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub would need 1200 Hp. Mike Hardaway ---- tbyh(at)aol.com wrote: > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! [snip] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Subject: New web site on mid air collision avoidance comment solicitation
Its not often we get a chance to add our comments to a developing website, however One of the safety professional boards I belong to had a posting pertaining to a new website to prevent mid air colissions, I asked the developer Craig Schilder if he would have a problem with my reposting in the POA and AOPA to solicite feed back from pilots. He encourage the idea. Following is that posting fo your review, consideration and comment directly to Craig: One of our offices is developing this website to prevent midair collisions with military aircraft. _http://www.seeandavoid.org/_ (http://www.seeandavoid.org/) would you all give this a look and let me know of any improvements needed and your thoughts about the effort. Craig Schilder DoD Pentagon support Accident Prevention Services Arlington, VA 22202 O 703-521-0405 C 703-399-6520 _Craig.schilder(at)comcast.net_ (mailto:Craig.schilder(at)comcast.net) John Recine View Public Profile Send a private message to John Recine Send email to John Recine Visit John Recine's homepage! Find More Posts by John Recine Add John Recine to Your Buddy List (http://forums.aopa.org/report.php?p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=542337) (http://forums.aopa.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=542337) John Recine _View Public Profile_ (http://forums.aopa.org/member.php?u=888) _Send a private message to John Recine_ (http://forums.aopa.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=888) _Send email to John Recine_ (http://forums.aopa.org/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=888) _Find More Posts by John Recine_ (http://forums.aopa.org/search.php?do=finduser&u=888) _Add John Recine to Your Buddy List_ (http://forums.aopa.org/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=buddy&u=888) http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: HP vs Speed
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Since the Pietenpol wing is designed "with a notch of flaps" in it I do not think you could double the speed. We would never hear the story from the pilot who tried it. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of bike.mike(at)charter.net Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: HP vs Speed Actually, Drag, a force, is proportional to the square of velocity, but the power to overcome drag is proportional to the cube of velocity. (Power = force x velocity) This means that doubling the speed requires EIGHT times the power, all other things remaining constant. The Super-Pooper-Duper Cub would need 1200 Hp. Mike Hardaway ---- tbyh(at)aol.com wrote: > Keep in mind that according to?some formula that I saw somewhere, to double an aircraft's speed will require?FOUR times the horsepower. I think this also applies to stock cars, baby buggies, bicycles and other conveyance contraptions.* For example, to get a 100-mph, 150-HP Super Cub up to 200 mph, would?require 600-hp. A Pratt & Whitney 1340 (T-6/SNJ engine) would probably do the trick, but then again you'd need to adjust the aircraft's weight and balance slightly! This would?also require a new name -- the Super-Duper Cub! [snip] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: James Nichols <zekjet(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Stillwater, OK New member
Hello, Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in that area they would be easy to visit also. Thanks in advance. James Nichols --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Stillwater, OK New member
Date: Aug 07, 2007
James, I'm building a Sky Scout (single seat sibling of the Air Camper) in Ada. Terry Hall ----- Original Message ----- From: James Nichols To: Pietenpol list Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:26 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stillwater, OK New member Hello, Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in that area they would be easy to visit also. Thanks in advance. James Nichols ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 07, 2007
Subject: Re: Stillwater, OK New member
James There are three including mine on a field just north of Tulsa. Actually just s.e. of Collinsville. Be glad to show mine and maybe the others. Jim Ballew http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Stillwater, OK New member
James, I'm down in Norman, and have a flying A-75 powered GN-1 Air Camper. I fly it pretty regularly. You are welcome to come see it sometime. Chuck Gantzer is up in Witchita, and I know there are at least three Piets in the OKC area under construction, including Chet Peek's Model A Piet which is also here in Norman. And of course there is Terry in Ada who is building a Sky Scout. Chet Peek's Pietenpol Book: http://www.threepeakspub.com On September 8th I'm having a fly-in at the airfield where I keep my plane, you should come down. Maybe Terry can make it also. Chet will probably be there if he is in town. Everyone is welcome, flying or driving. More information on the fly-in: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin http://www.dfwpilots.com/board/index.php?showtopic=3208 Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting James Nichols : > Hello, > > Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building > something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in > Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in > the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in > that area they would be easy to visit also. > > Thanks in advance. > > James Nichols ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: Michael Conkling <hpvs(at)southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Stillwater, OK New member
Stillwater, OK??! I've got plenty of time in that pattern in a C-150 & Aeronca 7AC -- granted it was all in the early 70's! ;-) We also have college buddies around Tulsa (Sandsprings, OK) Careful, there may be a need for a flying "Eskimo Joe's" shirt!! (in a Piet , of course!) Been there, too! Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS James Nichols wrote: > Hello, > > Just joined the group and am thinking (dreaming) of building > something. Looks like it will be a Pietenpol or Flybaby. I live in > Stillwater Oklahoma and was wondering if there were any Pietenpols in > the area. I get over to Tulsa fairly regularly so if there are any in > that area they would be easy to visit also. > > Thanks in advance. > > James Nichols? > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 07, 2007
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Wow, I forgot how low-res those Bowers article scans were... If anyone wants a higher res version, email me offlist (I may not know how to email "offlist" but maybe you do!) JM -----Original Message----- >From: Catdesigns <Catdesigns(at)comcast.net> >Sent: Aug 7, 2007 11:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > >http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=181 > >-------- >Chris Tracy >WestCoastPiet.com > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127951#127951 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Winter <twinter1(at)unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Thanks Jim and Chris! Delighted to have this. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: New Mexico
Date: Aug 08, 2007
My new project is in Edgewood New Mexico. Assuming I don't have time to haul it back, but the guy wants it out of his hanger, is there a pieter on the list nearby who know of a good storage location? I could fly down, move it, and then come back in the fall when it's not so busy. Just a though. I can get a couple of days next week. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: New Mexico
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Hi Bob Noticed you live in Midland. I use to live on Midland point about 25 years ago and visited Albuquerque a short while ago. They are quite a distance apart. If it is a 2 piece wing it would fit in a commercial storage unit. I can give you the name of somebody there who could help you find on if you are interested. Steve in Maine >From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Mexico >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:19:15 -0400 > > >My new project is in Edgewood New Mexico. Assuming I don't have time to >haul it back, but the guy wants it out of his hanger, is there a pieter on >the list nearby who know of a good storage location? I could fly down, >move >it, and then come back in the fall when it's not so busy. Just a though. >I >can get a couple of days next week. > >Bob > > _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see troublebefore he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: New Mexico
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Thanks Steve. The wings are no built so that's not a problem. But If you know someone I'd be interested. Work is crazy - I've never seen it this busy. Right now I've got one of the young engs drawing the fuselage and inside of a 17 foot U-haul and see if I can fit it in. Bob. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Glass Sent: August 8, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Mexico Hi Bob Noticed you live in Midland. I use to live on Midland point about 25 years ago and visited Albuquerque a short while ago. They are quite a distance apart. If it is a 2 piece wing it would fit in a commercial storage unit. I can give you the name of somebody there who could help you find on if you are interested. Steve in Maine >From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Mexico >Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 13:19:15 -0400 > > >My new project is in Edgewood New Mexico. Assuming I don't have time to >haul it back, but the guy wants it out of his hanger, is there a pieter on >the list nearby who know of a good storage location? I could fly down, >move >it, and then come back in the fall when it's not so busy. Just a though. >I >can get a couple of days next week. > >Bob > > _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see troublebefore he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Jim, Thanks for the Peter M. Bowers article which deals with some of the things I remembered him saying about Pietenpols. However, this is not the same article I was referring to in a previous post. I wish I still had the magazine it was in (and I can't remember what the name of the publication was, either). Peter's article described several Pietenpols and their flying characteristics, and compared the Pietenpol design to some factory-built airplanes with similar power. It was written around the same time as the article you provided (1969, or perhaps 1970). As I said before, The title was something like "Pietenpol: The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy". Maybe that will help someone find it in his collection of old aviation magazines. If it turns up, it would be a welcome addition to the archives because it contains good information for Pietenpol enthusiasts. Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
From: "rmueller23" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Graham, There is an article that Jim posted on mykitplanes entitled "Pietenpol's Air Camper: The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy". It is not, however, by Pete Bowers. It is by a Mr. Joe Christy, and is listed as being from the 1965 Air Progress Homebuilt Aircraft Annual. Might that be what you are thinking of? You can find it at: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=43 Ryan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128195#128195 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Graham Found it, it is in Winter edition of the Air Trails Sport Aircraft from 1971 . I only have the copy that was reprinted in the Buckeye Pietenpol Association Newsletter 1st and 2nd quarter 1994. I am in the process of scanning it right now. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article > <ghans@cable-lynx.net> > > Jim, > > Thanks for the Peter M. Bowers article which deals with some of the things > I remembered him saying about Pietenpols. > > However, this is not the same article I was referring to in a previous > post. I wish I still had the magazine it was in (and I can't remember what > the name of the publication was, either). Peter's article described > several Pietenpols and their flying characteristics, and compared the > Pietenpol design to some factory-built airplanes with similar power. It > was written around the same time as the article you provided (1969, or > perhaps 1970). As I said before, The title was something like "Pietenpol: > The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy". Maybe that will help someone find it > in his collection of old aviation magazines. If it turns up, it would be a > welcome addition to the archives because it contains good information for > Pietenpol enthusiasts. > > Graham Hansen > > Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
That was the Air Progress Homebuilt Aircraft Annual issue that is also on mykitplane.com. Well, I think it's there...if not, let me know and I'll send you (or whoever wants it) that article... JM in Burlington VT enjoying the seafood... -----Original Message----- From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> Sent: 8/8/07 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article Jim, Thanks for the Peter M. Bowers article which deals with some of the things I remembered him saying about Pietenpols. However, this is not the same article I was referring to in a previous post I wish I still had the magazine it was in (and I can't remember what the name of the publication was, either). Peter's article described several Pietenpols and their flying characteristics, and compared the Pietenpol design to some factory-built airplanes with similar power. It was written around the same time as the article you provided (1969, or perhaps 1970). As I said before, The title was something like "Pietenpol: The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy". Maybe that will help someone find it in his collection of old aviation magazines. If it turns up, it would be a welcome addition to the archives because it contains good information for Pietenpol enthusiasts ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Corvair engine test results
Date: Aug 08, 2007
I have added a new page to my web site with current results and home grown analysis for my Corvair powered Piet. Have a look at http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/engine_test.html to see how your results compare. Frankly, I'm not sure what to think! Malcolm Morrison http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
I wouldn't scan or distribute an article from the BPAN without permission... I do have the original Joe Christy article from the issue of Air Progress Homebuilt Aircraft Annual if anyone wants it but the mykitplane.com version of that article is pretty high res... It's at: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=43 jm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > > Graham > > Found it, it is in Winter edition of the Air Trails Sport Aircraft from > 1971 . I only have the copy that was reprinted in the Buckeye Pietenpol > Association Newsletter 1st and 2nd quarter 1994. I am in the process of > scanning it right now. > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > >> <ghans@cable-lynx.net> >> >> Jim, >> >> Thanks for the Peter M. Bowers article which deals with some of the >> things I remembered him saying about Pietenpols. >> >> However, this is not the same article I was referring to in a previous >> post. I wish I still had the magazine it was in (and I can't remember >> what the name of the publication was, either). Peter's article described >> several Pietenpols and their flying characteristics, and compared the >> Pietenpol design to some factory-built airplanes with similar power. It >> was written around the same time as the article you provided (1969, or >> perhaps 1970). As I said before, The title was something like "Pietenpol: >> The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy". Maybe that will help someone find it >> in his collection of old aviation magazines. If it turns up, it would be >> a welcome addition to the archives because it contains good information >> for Pietenpol enthusiasts. >> >> Graham Hansen >> >> Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Ok Jim I will not post it to my webpage. I will just have to leave it sitting on my hard drive as a back up copy. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > > I wouldn't scan or distribute an article from the BPAN without > permission... > > I do have the original Joe Christy article from the issue of Air Progress > Homebuilt Aircraft Annual if anyone wants it but the mykitplane.com > version of that article is pretty high res... > > It's at: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=43 > > jm > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > >> >> >> Graham >> >> Found it, it is in Winter edition of the Air Trails Sport Aircraft from >> 1971 . I only have the copy that was reprinted in the Buckeye Pietenpol >> Association Newsletter 1st and 2nd quarter 1994. I am in the process of >> scanning it right now. >> >> Chris Tracy >> Sacramento, Ca >> Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 6:00 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bowers Pietenpol Article >> >> >>> <ghans@cable-lynx.net> >>> >>> Jim, >>> >>> Thanks for the Peter M. Bowers article which deals with some of the >>> things I remembered him saying about Pietenpols. >>> >>> However, this is not the same article I was referring to in a previous >>> post. I wish I still had the magazine it was in (and I can't remember >>> what the name of the publication was, either). Peter's article described >>> several Pietenpols and their flying characteristics, and compared the >>> Pietenpol design to some factory-built airplanes with similar power. It >>> was written around the same time as the article you provided (1969, or >>> perhaps 1970). As I said before, The title was something like >>> "Pietenpol: The Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy". Maybe that will help >>> someone find it in his collection of old aviation magazines. If it turns >>> up, it would be a welcome addition to the archives because it contains >>> good information for Pietenpol enthusiasts. >>> >>> Graham Hansen >>> >>> Pietenpol CF-AUN in Alberta, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 08, 2007
Ryan, You are right. The article about the "Pasture Pilot's Pride and Joy" is by Joe Christy. I thought it was Peter Bowers who used that title and wrongly attributed the title to Peter. Having looked at Joe Christy's article I remember reading it a long time ago. However, it still isn't the article that I was looking for--and I still have the nagging feeling that it is out there somewhere (obviously with a different title). I'm pretty certain the missing article was written by Peter, but perhaps it wasn't after all. I dunno. OK, you sleuths. Keep digging! Graham Hansen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
"Pete Tackles A Passle Of Pietenpols" maybe? In this he tests six Piets. 1971 It currently resides here; http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=83 Clif > ago. However, it still isn't the article that I was looking for--and I > still have the nagging feeling that it is out there somewhere (obviously > with a different title). I'm pretty certain the missing article was > written by Peter, but perhaps it wasn't after all. I dunno. > > OK, you sleuths. Keep digging! > > Graham Hansen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Clif's my hero.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 4:39 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article > > "Pete Tackles A Passle Of Pietenpols" maybe? > > In this he tests six Piets. 1971 > > It currently resides here; > > http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=83 > > Clif > > >> ago. However, it still isn't the article that I was looking for--and I >> still have the nagging feeling that it is out there somewhere (obviously >> with a different title). I'm pretty certain the missing article was >> written by Peter, but perhaps it wasn't after all. I dunno. >> >> OK, you sleuths. Keep digging! >> >> Graham Hansen > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Markle
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
This guy....Jim Markle, I have MET this guy and KNOW him so my first advice to the entire list is to beware when dealing with him....he's building a Ford powered Piet too.....scary. Actually Jim is a GREAT guy.....and is doing a fine job on his airplane. He actually does a very nice job of flying a Pietenpol from the front seat too. (next time I'm not going to let him embarrass me by flying better than me) Mike C. PS-- Jim you still owe Travis a beer:) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 09, 2007
Thanks Guys! Thanks to Peter, Clif, Jim and all the others who dug out this article. It is the article I was referring to but, unfortunately, I had the wrong title and this threw the sleuths off the trail. This article is, I'm sure, of considerable interest to members of the group--especially those who are considering building a Pietenpol. I remember meeting Peter Bowers and discussing Pietenpols at the 1968 Abbotsford BC airshow. He had his Pietenpol there and I still have some photos of it. It was a very neat job with a Funk conversion of the Ford A engine. Thanks again, Graham Hansen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Interested in Piets
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: "Stan Amyett" <stan.amyett.qdr0(at)statefarm.com>
I am interested in buying a Pietenpol. I've research the Piet including this chat group and have a few question. I live in central Texas (high summer density altitudes) and I weigh 220 lbs, is the 65 hp Continental enough to carry myself and another adult? How much of a difference would an 85 hp engine make on the useful load and climb performance? How much maintenance should I expect on a Piet (I am only slightly mechanical myself) and would most A+P's be able/willing to inspect and repair wood and fabric aircraft? Where do most Piet owners list their aircraft for sale? Any other useful info would be greatly appreciated. Stan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Info on Pietenpols
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: "Stan Amyett" <stan.amyett.qdr0(at)statefarm.com>
I am interested in buying a Pietenpol. I've research the Piet including this chat group and have a few question. I live in central Texas (high summer density altitudes) and I weigh 220 lbs, is the 65 hp Continental enough to carry myself and another adult? How much of a difference would an 85 hp engine make on the useful load and climb performance? How much maintenance should I expect on a Piet (I am only slightly mechanical myself) and would most A+P's be able/willing to inspect and repair wood and fabric aircraft? Where do most Piet owners list their aircraft for sale? Any other useful info would be greatly appreciated. Stan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Info on Pietenpols
Stan, Oscar, Corky and Chuck can answer your question better, but they have all flown A65 Piets in comparable weather. None weigh 220, though. I weigh more than you and plan the same--an A65. However, a C85 will provide a substantial margin for climbing out with a load. Tim in central TX (west of Georgetown) // EAA187 (Austin) -----Original Message----- >From: Stan Amyett <stan.amyett.qdr0(at)statefarm.com> >Sent: Aug 9, 2007 6:17 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Info on Pietenpols > >I am interested in buying a Pietenpol. I've research the Piet including >this chat group and have a few question. > >I live in central Texas (high summer density altitudes) and I weigh 220 >lbs, is the 65 hp Continental enough to carry myself and another adult? > >How much of a difference would an 85 hp engine make on the useful load >and climb performance? > >How much maintenance should I expect on a Piet (I am only slightly >mechanical myself) and would most A+P's be able/willing to inspect and >repair wood and fabric aircraft? > >Where do most Piet owners list their aircraft for sale? > >Any other useful info would be greatly appreciated. > >Stan > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Corvair cowling..try this
I couldn't get that link to work either. I remembered printing out these plans from the mykitplanes site. Here is that link http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=74 If that doesn't work, just go to Mykitplane.com and look under the file library for Hans Vandervoort's stuff. Lots of other good stuff in this site too You can even see pictures of my Piet project! Ben Charvet Mims Fl rod wooller wrote: > > > Tom > > I typed www.hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index and got in no > trouble. > > Rod Wooller > > >> From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net> >> Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> To: >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair cowling >> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:38:59 -0500 >> >> For whatever the reason, the link to Hans' site won't work for me. Any >> suggestions? >> Hans VanderVoort has an award winning Piet/Vair with a J-3 style >> >> cowling. Check it out at http://hometown.aol.com/hvandervoo/index >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> Tom Stinemetze >> ____ | ____ >> \8/ >> / \ >> >> >> >> << ClearDayBkgrd.JPG >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Advertisement: Make shopping exciting. Find what you want at > www.eBay.com.au > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 09, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Well it's mutual my friend. Clif Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article : "Jim Markle" > > Clif's my hero.... > >> >> "Pete Tackles A Passle Of Pietenpols" maybe? >> >> In this he tests six Piets. 1971 >> >> It currently resides here; >> >> http://mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=83 >> >> Clif >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: New Mexico
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Bob, I'm not sure where you live but if Tennessee is on the way I have extra space in my hanger you'd be welcome to. Gene ( Just East of Memphis) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Mexico > > > My new project is in Edgewood New Mexico. Assuming I don't have time to > haul it back, but the guy wants it out of his hanger, is there a pieter on > the list nearby who know of a good storage location? I could fly down, > move > it, and then come back in the fall when it's not so busy. Just a though. > I > can get a couple of days next week. > > Bob > > > -- > 5:38 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Interested in Piets
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Interested in PietsStan, Welcome to the wacky world of Pieter's. Their a great group, flying a great airplane! The best place I have found to locate one for sale in on Barnstormers.com I have seen some really great ones for sale on that site (I found mine there). Good luck Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Amyett To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interested in Piets I am interested in buying a Pietenpol. I've research the Piet including this chat group and have a few question. I live in central Texas (high summer density altitudes) and I weigh 220 lbs, is the 65 hp Continental enough to carry myself and another adult? How much of a difference would an 85 hp engine make on the useful load and climb performance? How much maintenance should I expect on a Piet (I am only slightly mechanical myself) and would most A+P's be able/willing to inspect and repair wood and fabric aircraft? Where do most Piet owners list their aircraft for sale? Any other useful info would be greatly appreciated. Stan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/8/2007 5:38 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: New Mexico
And if you're passing through near Tulsa, you're welcome to stop over...and if you need storage space I have plenty... Jim in Pryor, OK -----Original Message----- >From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> >Sent: Aug 10, 2007 7:33 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Mexico > > >Bob, I'm not sure where you live but if Tennessee is on the way I have extra >space in my hanger you'd be welcome to. >Gene ( Just East of Memphis) >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:19 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Mexico > > >> >> >> My new project is in Edgewood New Mexico. Assuming I don't have time to >> haul it back, but the guy wants it out of his hanger, is there a pieter on >> the list nearby who know of a good storage location? I could fly down, >> move >> it, and then come back in the fall when it's not so busy. Just a though. >> I >> can get a couple of days next week. >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 5:38 PM >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Markle
I cried myself to sleep after reading this..... -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> >Sent: Aug 9, 2007 11:28 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Markle > > >This guy....Jim Markle, I have MET this guy and KNOW him so my first >advice to the entire >list is to beware when dealing with him....he's building a Ford powered >Piet too.....scary. > >Actually Jim is a GREAT guy.....and is doing a fine job on his airplane. >He actually does a very >nice job of flying a Pietenpol from the front seat too. (next time I'm >not going to let him embarrass me >by flying better than me) > >Mike C. > >PS-- Jim you still owe Travis a beer:) > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Subject: Re: Markle
Jim, You got some serious reputation issues, I can believe the first part of Michael's Post and after meeting him and watching his DVD he appears to be a reputable character.Ffrom the first discussion I had with him at Broadhead, he seems nice and honest enough. So I would put much stock in what he's said. As I told you previously there was a guy bad mouthing you at Broadhead, he looked a lot like me! Now I find I was not alone in besmirching your already tainted name and dubious distinction. Hey Jim I just had to do it! There are just some opportunities I cant resist. Actually I have had the pleasure to have met Jim and see his Piet, I also heard the model A come to life, wow, what an experience! He even let me try it on for size, following which I decided to make mine a wide body Piet. If you need the inside scoop on the Piet, Jim's your guy in Oklahoma. I would encourage anyone interested in meeting a good guy and looking at a great project to visit Jim. The meeting was a genuine pleasure and certainly an education. My only regret is not getting enough pics of his project, measurements, or his beer but a great guy to visit. John Recine http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Markle: substantiated by John Recine
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
See, you miss ONE Brodhead event Jim and suddenly people begin to drag you thru the mud and get ready to tar and feather you. I hope you can make it next year to recoup the ground you have lost with this fine group of gentlemen:)) Actually Jim had (note past tense ?) such a fine reputation among the Pietenpol world that in 2005 Javier came all the way from Mexico to personally give Jim a bottle of fine tequila, hand-delivered. I've had the pleasure of being corrupted on more than one occasion with Jim and as John R. said, if anyone is in Oklahoma his project would be a good object of inspiration for anyone building or thinking of building. Here's a photo of Jim in the front cockpit of my plane this past June with his brother Joshua standing next to him. Both made fine landings:) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Interested in Piets
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Stan asked: >is the 65 hp Continental enough to carry myself and another adult? Mike Cuy and others have said that it can be done but climb in the summer will not be breathtaking in the usual sense... more like you'll hold your breath and hope you clear obstacles at the end of the runway ;o) I've flown myself (150 lbs.) and a passenger (180 lbs.) with full fuel on a summer day and it was OK, but that's the most loaded I've operated my Piet. Corky may have operated it heavier than that with he and Edwin aboard (no offense meant, Corky). >How much of a difference would an 85 hp engine make on the useful load >and climb performance? The 85 HP would provide a welcome power margin and will improve climb performance. As far as useful load, if you don't have an excessively heavy Piet to begin with, your weight & balance calculations may show you that it will be impossible to overload your airplane, like mine is. I can't physically stuff a large enough passenger and pilot into the airplane to over-gross it. Cockpit size and access are the limiting factors. If you have a heavier airplane though (as some are), then you will still be limited by the gross weight limitation, not by engine horsepower. And there is essentially no baggage space in a Piet except perhaps a small wing locker. >How much maintenance should I expect on a Piet The usual for an older VFR airplane, or even less. No electrical system, everything is pretty much out in the open and fairly easy to get to. Oil changes, spark plugs, landing gear, etc. will pretty much be it. >would most A+P's be able/willing to inspect and repair wood and fabric >aircraft? Most TEXAS A&Ps would ;o) It's an easy one to inspect, everything on it is standard aircraft hardware and methods (turnbuckles, pulleys, engine). As far as repair, that's a different story... but there are surely some EAA types where you are who could help with any repairs needed. >Where do most Piet owners list their aircraft for sale? Right here, or on Barnstormers, and a few on eBay. Oscar Zuniga NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html _________________________________________________________________ Now you can see troublebefore he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: stan's questions
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Welcome Stan! The engine questions has been well answered, the extra HP will certainly help with climb, but don't look for much increase in speed as has been discussed in the last few days. Regarding maintenance, you'd be hard pressed to find a simpler airframe to maintain. It is sturdy and extremely straightforward, whether it be you or an A and P. The best advice is to find someone around you who will give you a ride and fly around for 30 minutes to see for yourself if it's the kind of plane you want. It is important that you understand the type of flying the Piet was meant to do, and what it excells at, low, slow local flying. I've always felt a Piet filled the same bill as a motorcycle or an open topped sports car. Local cruising and lots of fun, and though they can all certainly take long trips, you kinda have to be geared up for it. Good luck, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: Re: Markle
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Hi friends Take care from Jim , and if you have the chance to visit Tulsa, wacht out, maybe you leave there with some good ford engine and Aircamper Pictures to many ideas for your Piet and a good meat and some beers aboard...:) Thanks for you and for your family for that good time at your home Markle Javier Cruz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 10, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Markle
Jim, I cried for you too!.......... If hanger space is needed......anytime your near Fargo, ND pull in for a nice cup of coffee, some sugar beets, corn, potatoes, sunflowers, and beans! PS....no charge take all you can carry!..... on your way to no-where! tee-hee-hee Ken H Fargo, ND Jim Markle wrote: I cried myself to sleep after reading this..... -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" >Sent: Aug 9, 2007 11:28 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Markle > > >This guy....Jim Markle, I have MET this guy and KNOW him so my first >advice to the entire >list is to beware when dealing with him....he's building a Ford powered >Piet too.....scary. > >Actually Jim is a GREAT guy.....and is doing a fine job on his airplane. >He actually does a very >nice job of flying a Pietenpol from the front seat too. (next time I'm >not going to let him embarrass me >by flying better than me) > >Mike C. > >PS-- Jim you still owe Travis a beer:) > > > > > Kenneth M. Heide, BA,CPO,FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Interested in Piets
Date: Aug 10, 2007
The reason I said that most Texas A&Ps will inspect and repair good old airplanes like Pietenpols is that I hear and read quite a bit of stuff about the whiny A&Ps in other parts of the country who don't seem to have the same attitude towards experimentals and older aircraft, so I didn't want to lead somebody astray. Wayne Barker, the A&P who has given 41CC its last two annuals, owns Barker Aeromotive in Laredo, Texas and also operates quite a large air freight handling operation. Wayne is from one of the other reputable states in the Southern tier of states and found it a joy to go over the airplane for me. Has nothing to do with the size of your hat, because everybody knows you can't wear a hat and fly a Piet at the same time ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 10, 2007
Subject: Re: Interested in Piets
Oscar, you only get a C- on that comeback Nathan and the gang http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 11, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Interested in Piets
So how does a fly land on your kitchen ceiling? Half roll or half loop? :-) Clif Corky, I believe Webster's lists "Texas A & P" as "A farmer living near the Mexico border that raises Angus & pigs, knowing they will draw flies. The Texas A & P will spend the day laying on his back watching how the flys fly in order to discover the secret of flight." Because of their obvious superior intellect, other Texans hire them to get rid of the bugs in their flying machines." Gene ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: out-and-back to Fredericksburg
Date: Aug 11, 2007
Good Saturday to y'all; Today is my oldest daughter's 31st birthday and I flew her out to Fredericksburg, TX (T82) in 41CC along with a couple of other members of the Southwest Aero Club. This is a loose-knit group of pilots and wannabes from where I work, Southwest Research Institute. Needless to say, I was the last to arrive at Fredericksburg... the others were in a Cherokee, a Symphony, a 182, and various other things. Beautiful day for Pietenpoling. Cruised it over and back at 2500' MSL (pattern altitude at T82), great visibility, no winds, and perfect temperature at altitude; landed and joined the others for breakfast at the diner on the field, right next to the "Hangar Hotel", a nostalgic-setting modern hotel in a WWII era hangar. Huge group of sailplanes on the field along with numerous towplanes... we just barely got out before they closed the taxiway at noon-thirty for sailplane tows and retrieval operations. Ha... intersection takeoff at the FBO exit taxiway no problem for the mighty A65, even with full fuel and two aboard. Longest flight since my ferry x-c from Zapata... just under an hour each way from San Geronimo to Fredericksburg. Wish I had had smoke for a "Gantzer-style" departure... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Corvair engine test results
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Update I now have my static RPMs up to 2500 with easy starting, good idle, good transition, and 280 lbs thrust. I changed the dwell from 28 to 34 degrees, readjusted the timing to 14 degrees, and readjusted the main mixture screw on the Zenith Bandix to 1 turn open. I did this with the aid of a 'Colortune' spark plug. Colortune is a clear spark plug that lets you see the color of the flame in the cylinder. The best compromise of color that I could get was a little rich (yellow) at idle and full power, with normal (blue) in mid range. These changes got me the extra 100 RPM and extra 40 lbs thrust. I probably will not do much more engine testing until the airplane is complete (2 more years). Malcolm Morrison http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html morrisons5(at)adelphia.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Morrison Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 10:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine test results I have added a new page to my web site with current results and home grown analysis for my Corvair powered Piet. Have a look at http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/engine_test.html to see how your results compare. Frankly, I'm not sure what to think! Malcolm Morrison http://users.adelphia.net/~morrisons5/piet.html - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elv and rudder hinges
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Hi Dave Did you find Vi Kapler ? I would like to know the details so I can also get some hinges from him,I have read on another site that he makes many other Piet parts as well. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128748#128748 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Today has been a GOOD day
Date: Aug 12, 2007
N502R took to the air today after a complete rebuild of her A-65 and having her wings moved aft 2.75" for better CG, plus a new Struba 74 X 38 prop. It seems like it has been a long haul to get to this point but as soon as the wheels left the ground it all became worth it. So often we over look just how we got from point A to point B. I want to thank all of you on this list for all of your help you willingly provided. You all had a part in getting me airborn again. Wish you could have been there. Flew for a little over an hour, with six takeoffs and landings. Everything went unbeliveably well except for having a mud dubber nest in my airspeed indicator line (I just said the heck with it and flew anyway, keeping an eye on my AOA indicator). What a joy the Piet is to fly now that I have moved the wings back. Made a big difference in how she handles. It was 90 degrees out but she still climbed out very well with full fuel and my 200 lbs. New prop made a big difference. The engine couldn't have ran better. All in all, a very good day for this poor ol fat Alaska boy living in HOT Tennessee. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Today has been a GOOD day
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Well alright, Gene! Glad to hear you have wings again. Yes indeed, it is a great feeling to get in the air, Pietenpol style! Probably a bunch of little things to tweak and tune and touch up, but the important thing is that it's an airplane again, and not a "project" anymore! Congratulations from 41CC. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 12, 2007
Subject: [ Marshall Lumsden ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Marshall Lumsden Lists: Pietenpol-List,Homebuilt-List Subject: Brodhead Beauties http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mlumsden@charter.net.08.12.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: Interested in Piets
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Neither. Slow motion photography reveals that they fly up to the ceiling , reach up with their forward legs and grip the ceiling then flip themselves into an inverted position. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: August 11, 2007 3:06 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Interested in Piets So how does a fly land on your kitchen ceiling? Half roll or half loop? :-) Clif Corky, I believe Webster's lists "Texas A & P" as "A farmer living near the Mexico border that raises Angus & pigs, knowing they will draw flies. The Texas A & P will spend the day laying on his back watching how the flys fly in order to discover the secret of flight." Because of their obvious superior intellect, other Texans hire them to get rid of the bugs in their flying machines." Gene ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Catdesigns" <catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: cable fabrication
Date: Aug 13, 2007
I am needing to make the four brace wires for the wood landing gear. Any suggestions on how much to screw in the turnbuckle when I measure the length needed? Any idea of the amount of stretch to expect with 1/8"-inch cable. Basically the question is, approximately how much shorter then the measured distance do I make the cable. I know about the three threads out and four in specification for turnbuckles. Or is it just a wasteful trial and error type thing. Thanks Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: cable fabrication
Date: Aug 13, 2007
no threads showing. There is no stretch and you'll be surprised how much slack comes out with a little tightening. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Catdesigns<mailto:catdesigns(at)comcast.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cable fabrication > I am needing to make the four brace wires for the wood landing gear. Any suggestions on how much to screw in the turnbuckle when I measure the length needed? Any idea of the amount of stretch to expect with 1/8"-inch cable. Basically the question is, approximately how much shorter then the measured distance do I make the cable. I know about the three threads out and four in specification for turnbuckles. Or is it just a wasteful trial and error type thing. Thanks Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: GN1 project available
Date: Aug 13, 2007
see ebay item # 250153236945 I am not in the market my self but looks like a nicely done project so far michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Winter <twinter1(at)unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Cliff, Thank you! But there appears to be a page missing. Page 61? button 1 gives p. 56. Button 2. gives p. 57. 3. p. 58. 4. p. 59. Text ends "...built by" 5. No page number: pictures and caption only. Apparently page 60. 6. "Continued from page 61." Text begins "and gussets by ..." 7. PIETENPOLS, Continued. p. 88. 8. p. 89. 9. p. 90. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: cable fabrication
Date: Aug 13, 2007
Chris, For what it is worth, when I was making up my new drag wires I allowed half the threads on the turnbuckle to show when making up the cable. Once made, I screwed the turn buckle in until no threads showed and the tension seemed just right. One neat little trick that worked well for me was before I swaged the nicopress sleeves I placed a electrican's 1/8" wire saddle (not sure if that is the right name or not but it is what electricans use to attach one wire along side of another. It is in the shape of a U with a nut that screws down forcing a wedge that holds the wire to the bottom of the U). They can be bought at any electrical supply store. I put the nicopress sleeve on and put the wire saddle on behind it and tightened it down. It would hold the wire in place while I tightened the turnbuckle to check to see if it would be the right length. Once I was happy with the length, it held the sleeve while I nicopressed it. Sorry if all that is as clear as mud. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: A Glimps of WW1 RFC History
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Pieters, I thought I would share this with you. Hope it brings a smile to your face as it did to mine :) Never know, the flying tips may be helpful in flying the Piet! Enjoy, JohnW WW1 ROYAL FLYING CORPS MONTHLY SAFETY REPORT December 1917 (Extracted from a Daedalian Foundation Newsletter) INTRODUCTION Another good month. In all, a total of 35 accidents were reported, only six of which were avoidable. These represented a marked improvement over the month of November during which 84 accidents occurred, of which 23 were avoidable. This improvement, no doubt, is the result of experienced pilots with over 100 hours in the air forming the backbone of all the units. RESUME OF ACCIDENTS 1. Avoidable accidents this last month: a. The pilot of a Shorthorn, with over 7 hours of experience, seriously damaged the undercarriage on landing. He had failed to land at as fast a speed as possible as recommended in the Aviation Pocket Handbook. b. A B.E.2 stalled and crashed during an artillery exercise. The pilot had been struck on the head by the semaphore of his observer who was signaling to the gunners. c. Another pilot in a B.E.2 failed to get airborne. By an error of judgment, he was attempting to fly at mid-day instead of at the recommended best lift periods, which are just after dawn and just before sunset. d. A Longhorn pilot lost control and crashed in a bog near Chipping- Sedbury. An error of skill on the part of the pilot in not being able to control a machine with a wide speed band of 10 MPH between top speed and stalling speed. e. While low flying in a Shorthorn the pilot crashed into the top deck of a horse drawn bus near Stonehenge. f. A B.E.2 pilot was seen to be attempting a banked turn at a constant height before he crashed. A grave error by an experienced pilot. 2. There were 29 unavoidable accidents from which the following are selected: a. The top wing of a Camel fell off due to fatigue failure of the flying wires. A successful emergency landing was carried out. b. Sixteen B.E.2s and 9 Shorthorns had complete engine failures. A marked improvement over November's fatigue. c. Pigeons destroyed a Camel and 2 Longhorns after mid-air strikes. COST OF ACCIDENTS during the last three months of 1917 cost 317 pounds, 10 shillings, sixpence, money down the drain and sufficient to buy new gaiters and spurs for each and every pilot and observer in the Service. ACCIDENT BRIEFS No.1 Brief: No. 912 Squadron, 3 December 1917, Aircraft type B.E. 2C, No. XY 678, Total solo - 4.0, Pilot Lt. J. Smyth-Worthington, Solo in type - 1.10. The pilot of this flying machine attempted to maintain his altitude in a turn at 2,500 feet. This resulted in the aeroplane entering an unprecedented manoeuvre, entailing a considerable loss of height. Even with full power applied and the control column fully back, the pilot was unable to regain control. However, upon climbing from the cockpit onto the lower mainplane, the pilot managed to correct the machines altitude, and by skilful manipulation of the flying wires successfully sideslipped into a nearby meadow. Remarks: Although through inexperience, this pilot allowed his aeroplane to enter an unusual attitude, his resourcefulness in eventually landing without damage has earned him a unit citation. R.F.C. Lundsford-Magnus is investigating the strange behavior of this aircraft. No. 2 Brief: No. 847 Squadron, 19 December 1917, Aircraft type Spotter Balloon J17983, Total solo 107.00. Pilot Capt. D. Lavendar, Solo in type 32.10. Captain Lavendar of the Hussars, a balloon observer, unfortunately allowed the spike of his fulldress helmet to impinge against the envelope of his balloon. There was a violent explosion and the balloon carried out a series of fantastic and uncontrollable maneuvers, whilst rapidly emptying itself of gas. The pilot was thrown clear and escaped injury, as he was lucky enough to land on his helmet. Remarks: This pilot was flying in full-dress uniform because he was the Officer of the Day. In consequence, it has been recommended that pilots will not fly during periods of duty as Officer of the Day. Captain Lavendar has subsequently requested an exchange posting to the Patroville Alps, a well known mule unit of the Basques. No. 3 Brief: Summary of No. 43 Brief, October 1917. Major W. deKitkag-Watney's Nieuport Scout was extensively damaged when it failed to become airborne. The original Court of Inquiry found that the primary cause of the accident was carelessness and poor airmanship on the part of a very experienced pilot. The Commandant General, however, not being wholly convinced that Major de Kitkag-Watney could be guilty of so culpable a mistake ordered that the Court should be reconvened. After extensive inquiries and lengthy discussions with the Meteorological Officer and Astronomer Royal, the Court came to the conclusion that the pilot unfortunately was authorised to fly his aircraft on a day when there was absolutely no lift in the air and therefore could not be held responsible for the accident. The Court wishes to take this opportunity to extend its congratulations to Major de Kitkag-Watney on his reprieve and also on his engagement to the Commandant General's daughter, which was announced shortly before the accident. FLYING SAFETY TIPS Horizontal turns. To take a turn the pilot should always remember to sit upright, otherwise he will increase the banking of the aeroplane. He should NEVER lean over. Crash precautions: Every pilot should understand the serious consequences of trying to turn with the engine off. It is much safer to crash into a house when going forward than to sideslip or stall a machine with engine troubles. Passengers should always use safety belts, as the pilot may start stunting without warning. Never release the belt while in the air, or when nosed down to land. Engine noises. Upon the detection of a knock, grind, rattle or squeak, the engine should be at once stopped. Knocking or grinding accompanied by a squeak indicates binding and a lack of lubricant. WATCH THAT FIRST STEP It was conceded by all that the pilot had accomplished a brilliant piece of work in landing his disabled machine without damage under the circumstances. It is not with intent to reflect less credit upon his airmanship, but it must be noted that he is a well experienced aviator with over 40 total hours in the air, embracing a wide variety of machines, and this was his seventh forced landing due to complete failure of the engine. It was doubly unfortunate that upon alighting from his machine he missed the catwalk on the lower airfoil and plunged both legs through the fabric, straddling a rib, from which he received a grievous personal injury. Some thought should be devoted to a means of identifying wing-traversing catwalks to assist aviators in disembarking from their various machines. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: A Glimps of WW1 RFC History
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Thanks, very interesting! My favorite is the wording, appropriate for the era, for the last incident...where the pilot received "grievous personal injury". JM ----- Original Message ----- From: <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Glimps of WW1 RFC History > > Pieters, > I thought I would share this with you. > Hope it brings a smile to your face as it did to mine :) > Never know, the flying tips may be helpful in flying the Piet! > Enjoy, > JohnW > > > WW1 ROYAL FLYING CORPS MONTHLY SAFETY REPORT > > December 1917 > (Extracted from a Daedalian Foundation Newsletter) > > INTRODUCTION > Another good month. In all, a total of 35 accidents were reported, > only six of which were avoidable. These represented a marked > improvement over the month of November during which 84 accidents > occurred, of which 23 were avoidable. This improvement, no doubt, is > the result of experienced pilots with over 100 hours in the air > forming the backbone of all the units. > > RESUME OF ACCIDENTS > > 1. Avoidable accidents this last month: > > a. The pilot of a Shorthorn, with over 7 hours of experience, > seriously damaged the undercarriage on landing. He had failed to land > at as fast a speed as possible as recommended in the Aviation Pocket > Handbook. > > b. A B.E.2 stalled and crashed during an artillery exercise. The > pilot had been struck on the head by the semaphore of his observer > who was signaling to the gunners. > > c. Another pilot in a B.E.2 failed to get airborne. By an error of > judgment, he was attempting to fly at mid-day instead of at the > recommended best lift periods, which are just after dawn and just > before sunset. > > d. A Longhorn pilot lost control and crashed in a bog near Chipping- > Sedbury. An error of skill on the part of the pilot in not being able > to control a machine with a wide speed band of 10 MPH between top > speed and stalling speed. > > e. While low flying in a Shorthorn the pilot crashed into the top > deck of a horse drawn bus near Stonehenge. > > f. A B.E.2 pilot was seen to be attempting a banked turn at a > constant height before he crashed. A grave error by an experienced > pilot. > > 2. There were 29 unavoidable accidents from which the following are > selected: > > a. The top wing of a Camel fell off due to fatigue failure of the > flying wires. A successful emergency landing was carried out. > > b. Sixteen B.E.2s and 9 Shorthorns had complete engine failures. A > marked improvement over November's fatigue. > > c. Pigeons destroyed a Camel and 2 Longhorns after mid-air strikes. > > COST OF ACCIDENTS during the last three months of 1917 cost 317 > pounds, 10 shillings, sixpence, money down the drain and sufficient > to buy new gaiters and spurs for each and every pilot and observer in > the Service. > > ACCIDENT BRIEFS > > No.1 Brief: > No. 912 Squadron, 3 December 1917, > Aircraft type B.E. 2C, No. XY 678, > Total solo - 4.0, > Pilot Lt. J. Smyth-Worthington, > Solo in type - 1.10. > The pilot of this flying machine attempted to maintain his altitude > in a turn at 2,500 feet. This resulted in the aeroplane entering an > unprecedented manoeuvre, entailing a considerable loss of height. > Even with full power applied and the control column fully back, the > pilot was unable to regain control. However, upon climbing from the > cockpit onto the lower mainplane, the pilot managed to correct the > machines altitude, and by skilful manipulation of the flying wires > successfully sideslipped into a nearby meadow. > > Remarks: > Although through inexperience, this pilot allowed his aeroplane to > enter an unusual attitude, his resourcefulness in eventually landing > without damage has earned him a unit citation. R.F.C. > Lundsford-Magnus is investigating the strange behavior of this > aircraft. > > No. 2 Brief: > No. 847 Squadron, 19 December 1917, > Aircraft type Spotter Balloon J17983, > Total solo 107.00. > Pilot Capt. D. Lavendar, Solo in type 32.10. Captain Lavendar of the > Hussars, a balloon observer, unfortunately allowed the spike of his > fulldress helmet to impinge against the envelope of his balloon. > There was a violent explosion and the balloon carried out a series of > fantastic and uncontrollable maneuvers, whilst rapidly emptying > itself of gas. The pilot was thrown clear and escaped injury, as he > was lucky enough to land on his helmet. > > Remarks: > This pilot was flying in full-dress uniform because he was the > Officer of the Day. In consequence, it has been recommended that > pilots will not fly during periods of duty as Officer of the Day. > Captain Lavendar has subsequently requested an exchange posting to > the Patroville Alps, a well known mule unit of the Basques. > > No. 3 Brief: > Summary of No. 43 Brief, October 1917. Major W. deKitkag-Watney's > Nieuport Scout was extensively damaged when it failed to become > airborne. The original Court of Inquiry found that the primary cause > of the accident was carelessness and poor airmanship on the part of a > very experienced pilot. The Commandant General, however, not being > wholly convinced that Major de Kitkag-Watney could be guilty of so > culpable a mistake ordered that the Court should be reconvened. After > extensive inquiries and lengthy discussions with the Meteorological > Officer and Astronomer Royal, the Court came to the conclusion that > the pilot unfortunately was authorised to fly his aircraft on a day > when there was absolutely no lift in the air and therefore could not > be held responsible for the accident. The Court wishes to take this > opportunity to extend its congratulations to Major de Kitkag-Watney > on his reprieve and also on his engagement to the Commandant > General's daughter, which was announced shortly before the accident. > > FLYING SAFETY TIPS > > Horizontal turns. > To take a turn the pilot should always remember to sit upright, > otherwise he will increase the banking of the aeroplane. He should > NEVER lean over. > > Crash precautions: > Every pilot should understand the serious consequences of trying to > turn with the engine off. It is much safer to crash into a house when > going forward than to sideslip or stall a machine with engine > troubles. > > Passengers should always use safety belts, as the pilot may start > stunting without warning. Never release the belt while in the air, or > when nosed down to land. > > Engine noises. > Upon the detection of a knock, grind, rattle or squeak, the engine > should be at once stopped. Knocking or grinding accompanied by a > squeak indicates binding and a lack of lubricant. > > WATCH THAT FIRST STEP > It was conceded by all that the pilot had accomplished a brilliant > piece of work in landing his disabled machine without damage under > the circumstances. It is not with intent to reflect less credit upon > his airmanship, but it must be noted that he is a well experienced > aviator with over 40 total hours in the air, embracing a wide variety > of machines, and this was his seventh forced landing due to complete > failure of the engine. It was doubly unfortunate that upon alighting > from his machine he missed the catwalk on the lower airfoil and > plunged both legs through the fabric, straddling a rib, from which he > received a grievous personal injury. Some thought should be devoted > to a means of identifying wing-traversing catwalks to assist aviators > in disembarking from their various machines. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Re: Elv and rudder hinges
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Hey Carson, I don't know if you mean me, but I got hinges from Mr. Kapler. They are VERY nice! I have misplaced the contact info (phone #) I am sure someone on the list will know Vitalis Kapler's Phone #. Can anyone out there help????????? Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of carson Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elv and rudder hinges Hi Dave Did you find Vi Kapler ? I would like to know the details so I can also get some hinges from him,I have read on another site that he makes many other Piet parts as well. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=128748#128748 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Subject: Re: Elv and rudder hinges
From: "Glenn W. Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
I just remembered I got his business card at Brodhead and have with me right now! ...and his hinges look very nice. This is what's on his card: Vitalis Kapler 1033 Forest Hill Dr. SW Rochester, MN 55902 (507) 288-3322 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 14, 2007
Subject: Adhesive comparison test results
I know this has been beaten around a bunch and not to ad to the confusion of what glue is best the latest test results are out on glue comparisons, some pretty interesting stuff when considering selecting adhesives for your project. Enjoy John http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GlennThomas(at)flyingwood.com" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Adhesive comparison test results
Date: Aug 15, 2007
I guess the redeeming value in the article (although I will read it more closely later) is while there is not an advantage to using slowset epoxy, there is also no disadvantage (for those of us who used T-88). Is the article written with moisture and common aircraft application in mind? Thanks for sharing the info. It's interesting to read about things like this. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trade a Piet for a Cozy?
Date: Aug 14, 2007
If anyone is interested, I got an email from Pat Panzera, owner/editor of Contact! magazine and administrator of its charitable trust. He writes: >We were recently donated a Cozy MKIII in flying but disassembled condition. >It was built, primered, flown a few times and parked. The owner/builder >got sick >and decided he was done flying. Would you consider trading it for your >Piet? [I said "no" as far as NX41CC.] >Know anyone who would want to trade it for a flying Piet? [I offered to post this to the Piet list in case anyone is interested.] Pictures at http://www.contactmagazine.com/classifieds/cozymkiii.html and direct all inquiries to Pat, not to me. All his contact information is right there on that page. I assume the project is now at Pat's place in Hanford, California (Bakersfield area). Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Bowers Pietenpol Article
Yes, something IS missing. Now I'm going to have to range through MY shelves of old magazines. I'll find the silly thing. It may take a while though. Hey Robert! You win the prize. You're now officialy a fly watching Texas A&P! :-) :-) Clif > > Cliff, Thank you! But there appears to be a page missing. Page 61? > button 1 gives p. 56. > Button 2. gives p. 57. > 3. p. 58. > 4. p. 59. Text ends "...built by" > 5. No page number: pictures and caption only. Apparently page 60. > 6. "Continued from page 61." Text begins "and gussets by ..." > 7. PIETENPOLS, Continued. p. 88. > 8. p. 89. > 9. p. 90. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 14, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Adhesive comparison test results
I've got that article and it's written for the general woodworking community. Definitely not with either airplane or boat building in mind. The one thing confirmed for me is NOT to use Gorilla glue. Clif I guess the redeeming value in the article (although I will read it more closely later) is while there is not an advantage to using slowset epoxy, there is also no disadvantage (for those of us who used T-88). Is the article written with moisture and common aircraft application in mind? Thanks for sharing the info. It's interesting to read about things like this. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/13/2007 10:15 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Gorilla Glue- NOT!
Date: Aug 15, 2007
I guess the link to the glue comparison doesn't come through on the digest, so could someone please send it to me directly so I can see the study results? I was thinking of using Gorilla Glue on a small boat project for my grandsons (the "One Sheet Skiff", at http://www3.sympatico.ca/herbert.mcleod/skiff.htm ) and want to see what they say about it. Thanks. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html _________________________________________________________________ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Adhesive comparison test results
All this talk about glue has gotten me curious about the durability of various glue joints over time, which is every bit as important as the initial strength. Does anyone have any data on how different glues (particularly Resorcinol and T-88) maintain their strength over time? The initial strength is important, but if one adhesive loses 40% of its strength over 30 years while one only loses 10%, that is a significant thing to consider. I seem to remember reading somewhere that some glues will lose up to 40% of their strength with time. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Clif Dawson : > I've got that article and it's written for the general woodworking community. > Definitely not with either airplane or boat building in mind. > > The one thing confirmed for me is NOT to use Gorilla glue. > > Clif > > > I guess the redeeming value in the article (although I will read > it more closely later) is while there is not an advantage to using > slowset epoxy, there is also no disadvantage (for those of us who > used T-88). Is the article written with moisture and common > aircraft application in mind? Thanks for sharing the info. It's > interesting to read about things like this. > > Glenn W. Thomas > Storrs, CT > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > 8/13/2007 10:15 AM > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Gorilla Glue- NOT!
Hi Oscar, Gorilla glue is very strong but it foams up when you join the two pieces together and the clean up is messy. I would not use anything but Titebond III as its is much easier to clean up and is a PVA type 1 glue. I use Titebond III for all my wood working (furniture) projects and have used T-88 for everything on the Piet. Cheers, Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Williams" <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: Gorilla Glue- NOT!
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Oscar, I am building a boat and mine is a skiff too but larger. It's a Glen-L design of stitch and glue construction. I have thus far used epoxy mixed with silica and micro ballons for the glue as they recommend but it can be a pain to mix that up every time. I have just started to use PL Premium adhesive on a few parts and so far it's great. Here's a link: http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products/detail.asp?PLProductID=14 It's available at Home Depot and was $3.50 a tube a couple years ago when I last bought it. Might be more now. Supposedly it's comparable to 3M 5200 marine adhesive but much cheaper. I had to remove one part on my transom that I had glued with the PL and man it was tenacious. I had to grind and cut through it and the wood. There was no separation along the glue joint at all. If you do want to go the epoxy route, Glen-L offers a pre-thickened epoxy glue that you mix in a 1:1 ratio called Poxy-Grip. Link here: https://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=287 I'm thinking of buying some of this to finish my boat with and avoiding having to add the silica and micro. Eric >From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gorilla Glue- NOT! >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:44:25 -0500 > > > >I guess the link to the glue comparison doesn't come through on the digest, >so could someone please send it to me directly so I can see the study >results? I was thinking of using Gorilla Glue on a small boat project for >my grandsons (the "One Sheet Skiff", at >http://www3.sympatico.ca/herbert.mcleod/skiff.htm ) and want to see what >they say about it. > >Thanks. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html > >_________________________________________________________________ >More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Adhesive comparison test results
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
As someone else said, it would be interesting to see a similar test run with consideration for long term exposure to UV and humidity. Interesting that Resorcinol wasn't even tested when it is still the ONLY glue the FAA has approved for use on certificated aircraft. Don't boil your airplane without it! Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GlennThomas(at)flyingwood.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adhesive comparison test results I guess the redeeming value in the article (although I will read it more closely later) is while there is not an advantage to using slowset epoxy, there is also no disadvantage (for those of us who used T-88). Is the article written with moisture and common aircraft application in mind? Thanks for sharing the info. It's interesting to read about things like this. Glenn W. Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Adhesive comparison test results
Date: Aug 15, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Adhesives article
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Not sure why previous post didn't come out right, so I rewrite my comments. I spent over 30 years as manager and chemist in the epoxy and urethane industry, Burt Rutan used only our epoxies on his fiberglass designs for over 25 years. Couple comments bout the article about wood glues, a) not all epoxies are formulated the same, actually there's probably over 300 in my notebooks alone, and I guess thousands out there in the formulation industry. Wood application epoxies are a special breed. They have to penetrate the wood fibers for physical bonding, but also chemically bond with the resins and H2O in the wood, to be effective. b.) different epoxies have different resist to weathering and aging ie. UV and oxidation. c.) different epoxies have differing amounts of thermplastic creep under sheer loads. Boston's Big Dig roof collapes found this out the hard way. They used accidentally the wrong epoxy formula to bond the bolts holding up the roof panels to the rock tunnel walls, under loaded sheer stress the epoxy creeped (flowed even when completely hardened) and the bolt bond failed. Epoxies used for homebuilt wood boats and aircraft are special, don't fool around, use only stuff known and tested for the application, ie. T-88, West Systems, System 3, Hexcel's, etc, all available from Airspruce or Wicks. If unsure contact the manufacturers tech service toll free call lines or their websites. The glue holding your wood plane together is your cheapest investment in the homebuilt but probably the most important, considering the metal parts are about 80% of the cost. Glues can fatigue just like metals or "flow" (creep) under stress loads. Setting on the flightline or in the hanger the glue is under stress just holding up the wings or holding the plane together. The article posted is for wood workers making furniture etc., and is very superficial in data. Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Adhesives article
Date: Aug 15, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Thanks for the good information Gordon! Jack Textor From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Adhesives article Not sure why previous post didn't come out right, so I rewrite my comments. I spent over 30 years as manager and chemist in the epoxy and urethane industry, Burt Rutan used only our epoxies on his fiberglass designs for over 25 years. Couple comments bout the article about wood glues, a) not all epoxies are formulated the same, actually there's probably over 300 in my notebooks alone, and I guess thousands out there in the formulation industry. Wood application epoxies are a special breed. They have to penetrate the wood fibers for physical bonding, but also chemically bond with the resins and H2O in the wood, to be effective. b.) different epoxies have different resist to weathering and aging ie. UV and oxidation. c.) different epoxies have differing amounts of thermplastic creep under sheer loads. Boston's Big Dig roof collapes found this out the hard way. They used accidentally the wrong epoxy formula to bond the bolts holding up the roof panels to the rock tunnel walls, under loaded sheer stress the epoxy creeped (flowed even when completely hardened) and the bolt bond failed. Epoxies used for homebuilt wood boats and aircraft are special, don't fool around, use only stuff known and tested for the application, ie. T-88, West Systems, System 3, Hexcel's, etc, all available from Airspruce or Wicks. If unsure contact the manufacturers tech service toll free call lines or their websites. The glue holding your wood plane together is your cheapest investment in the homebuilt but probably the most important, considering the metal parts are about 80% of the cost. Glues can fatigue just like metals or "flow" (creep) under stress loads. Setting on the flightline or in the hanger the glue is under stress just holding up the wings or holding the plane together. The article posted is for wood workers making furniture etc., and is very superficial in data. Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Subject: Re: Adhesives article
Having posted the article, I have to say that Gordon's post is really reassuring. The way it turns out a friend of mine is a furniture maker and swears by the Titebond products, actually suggested on several occasions that I build using Titebond III as an alternative to the epoxy's. I resisted the temptation to go cheep and went the West Systems epoxy, which I have been extremely happy working with for several reasons, primarily the mix pump system of a uniform batch every time. After reading the comparison chart I was again tempted to use the Titebond III product on some of the non structural parts for no particular reason other than ease of no having to mix a batch of system 3 epoxy. >From Gordon's perspective and background I made the right choice to resist the temptation of cheep and easy and remain with the tried and true proven system of meter mix and apply. For the record I always leave the project for the recommended set and cure time of 24 hours. Nothing like making a good choice. Gordon thanks again for shedding some much needed light on a topic that I have pondered and read about for quite some time and until reading your opinion would have considered the Titebond product. John Recine Pietenpol air camper, build it like your life depends on it! http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Weir" <billweir(at)lon.imag.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/14/07
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Please, whoever it was, would you send that message with the instructions re using electrical clamps to hold wires while nicoing them. I had it and I accidently deleted it, and I want it. Thanks. Bill Weir ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Adhesives article
Date: Aug 15, 2007
You guys are welcome. Been posting to the Rutanesque homebuilder webgroup for some time about these issues. Couple of handling tips about epoxies. 1) they never reach 100% full cure, but tend to max out when given time 30 days min., at 77F. The can be post cured up to about 150F to reach 100% crosslinking, therefore eliminate deformation on hot days on flightline. But the plane is an entire system, so the epoxy is only part of the solution and problem., 2) if you have problems with gap filling and/or runouts of the glue, use microballons to "bulk-up" and then a pinch of cotton flox or silica to eliminate sag of the glue before curing. The flox and silica are thixotropes, kinda like long fibers under a microscope, this gives thickening without much bulk, and some added bonding strength. The microballons are jus little round balls, they just give lighter bulkier bonds without thickening. The glue has to be runny enough to saturate the wood fibers but thickened enough to not run-out to much. T-88 is chemically thickened, that's why most people like it. But you can use a runny West System or Hexcel or mfgers stuff and thicken it yourself cheaply. Flox, ballons and silica are all available from Aspruce or Wicks. Lastly- keep the mix ratio required by the mfger right on the money. Don't guess or estimate. Any excess epoxy or curative is just a waste and lessens the overall physical properties of the mixed system. I use a cheap postal scale that has grams and oz's. If you decide to use the dispensing pumps available from some mfgers, make very sure the nozzles are clean. These pumps are only accurate when the nozzles are keep clean of residue. The hardener has a tendency to get plugged up due to the amines in the hardener reacting with the moisture in the air. Hope this helpful, and not preachy. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adhesives article Having posted the article, I have to say that Gordon's post is really reassuring. The way it turns out a friend of mine is a furniture maker and swears by the Titebond products, actually suggested on several occasions that I build using Titebond III as an alternative to the epoxy's. I resisted the temptation to go cheep and went the West Systems epoxy, which I have been extremely happy working with for several reasons, primarily the mix pump system of a uniform batch every time. After reading the comparison chart I was again tempted to use the Titebond III product on some of the non structural parts for no particular reason other than ease of no having to mix a batch of system 3 epoxy. From Gordon's perspective and background I made the right choice to resist the temptation of cheep and easy and remain with the tried and true proven system of meter mix and apply. For the record I always leave the project for the recommended set and cure time of 24 hours. Nothing like making a good choice. Gordon thanks again for shedding some much needed light on a topic that I have pondered and read about for quite some time and until reading your opinion would have considered the Titebond product. John Recine Pietenpol air camper, build it like your life depends on it! AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 15, 2007
Subject: Re: Adhesives article
From: "Glenn W. Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Gordon, Without the technical detail I had many of the same suspicions and was happy to hear you provide some reasoning to support my hunch. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Chapman" <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Adhesives article
Date: Aug 15, 2007
The only thing that throws me with the TiteBond type glues is joint slippage on a flat plane under tension. All these glues do have slippage and some are worse than others. The easiest way to get them to slip is put them under tension and let them get warm. A guitar neck is an excellent example. Over the course of 30 years, neck warpage occurs as a result of 2200 lbs pressure at room temp causing the fingerboard joint to slip on the underlying neck. It's the primary reason that most guitar necks have a truss rod built in. I'll grant that all the glues tested are sensitive to strain and heat (and even humidity in some cases) but it's a big problem for hide and white glues. The particular place on an airplane where this slippage seems most likely to occur is on the scarf joint of a two piece spar. Opinions? Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com http://www.layer1wireless.com "Don't start with me or I'll replace you with a small and efficient script!" From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adhesives article Having posted the article, I have to say that Gordon's post is really reassuring. The way it turns out a friend of mine is a furniture maker and swears by the Titebond products, actually suggested on several occasions that I build using Titebond III as an alternative to the epoxy's. I resisted the temptation to go cheep and went the West Systems epoxy, which I have been extremely happy working with for several reasons, primarily the mix pump system of a uniform batch every time. After reading the comparison chart I was again tempted to use the Titebond III product on some of the non structural parts for no particular reason other than ease of no having to mix a batch of system 3 epoxy. >From Gordon's perspective and background I made the right choice to resist the temptation of cheep and easy and remain with the tried and true proven system of meter mix and apply. For the record I always leave the project for the recommended set and cure time of 24 hours. Nothing like making a good choice. Gordon thanks again for shedding some much needed light on a topic that I have pondered and read about for quite some time and until reading your opinion would have considered the Titebond product. John Recine Pietenpol air camper, build it like your life depends on it! AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Adhesives article
Date: Aug 15, 2007
You have just perfectly decribed shear stress and thermoplastic flow of a apparent thermoset resin. The adhesive is very slowly flowing to relieve the strain and as the temp rises with the adhesive under shear strain the adhesive flows faster to relieve the strain, thus bond failure. A formlator chemist would change the formula to increase the amount of chemical cross-linking at room temp and then post cure the mixed resin laminate to a temp about 15F above the highest temp it would see in it's application. The laminate would still creep but not until the laminate saw a temp about 25F above the post temp. Below this post cure temp there would be no creep, the resin would truely be thermoset. The formula that gave higher amounts of crosslinking would also produce more exothermic reaction at room temp, therefore the laminate would creep less due to this increase of reaction temp. Problem with higher amount of crosslinking is also shorter pot life. Gordon Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Chapman To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:42 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Adhesives article The only thing that throws me with the TiteBond type glues is joint slippage on a flat plane under tension. All these glues do have slippage and some are worse than others. The easiest way to get them to slip is put them under tension and let them get warm. A guitar neck is an excellent example. Over the course of 30 years, neck warpage occurs as a result of 2200 lbs pressure at room temp causing the fingerboard joint to slip on the underlying neck. It's the primary reason that most guitar necks have a truss rod built in. I'll grant that all the glues tested are sensitive to strain and heat (and even humidity in some cases) but it's a big problem for hide and white glues. The particular place on an airplane where this slippage seems most likely to occur is on the scarf joint of a two piece spar. Opinions? Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com http://www.layer1wireless.com "Don't start with me or I'll replace you with a small and efficient script!" From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:45 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Adhesives article Having posted the article, I have to say that Gordon's post is really reassuring. The way it turns out a friend of mine is a furniture maker and swears by the Titebond products, actually suggested on several occasions that I build using Titebond III as an alternative to the epoxy's. I resisted the temptation to go cheep and went the West Systems epoxy, which I have been extremely happy working with for several reasons, primarily the mix pump system of a uniform batch every time. After reading the comparison chart I was again tempted to use the Titebond III product on some of the non structural parts for no particular reason other than ease of no having to mix a batch of system 3 epoxy. From Gordon's perspective and background I made the right choice to resist the temptation of cheep and easy and remain with the tried and true proven system of meter mix and apply. For the record I always leave the project for the recommended set and cure time of 24 hours. Nothing like making a good choice. Gordon thanks again for shedding some much needed light on a topic that I have pondered and read about for quite some time and until reading your opinion would have considered the Titebond product. John Recine Pietenpol air camper, build it like your life depends on it! AOL.com. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/14/07
Date: Aug 16, 2007
Bill, Wish I knew the correct name for the clamp. It is used by electricans, ususally when attaching a smaller wire to a larger wire and can be bought at any electrical supply store (about a buck). It is made of copper and is U shaped. It comes in a number of different sizes. The two legs of the U are threaded and has a nut that will force a wedge toward the bottom of the U which acts as a clamp. Being made of copper, it will not damage the cable. I used a 1/8" clamp for my 1/8th" cable. I put the nicopress sleeve on the cable, wrapped the cable around the thimble and back into the sleeve. I then placed the clamp directly behind the sleeve, pulled the cable tight around the thimble and closed the clamp. That way you can not only check your over all length of your made up cable but the clamp servers to hold the sleeve in place while you crush it. I just did what I should have done before I ever wrote the first msg. I called a supply store and found out the name. It's called a SPLIT BOLT. Duh....... Gene - Original Message ----- From: "Bill Weir" <billweir(at)lon.imag.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/14/07 > > Please, whoever it was, would you send that message with the instructions > re using electrical clamps to hold wires while nicoing them. I had it and > I accidently deleted it, and I want it. > > Thanks. > > Bill Weir > > > -- > 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair shop manual & Richard Finch Corvair Alive
From: "kroghie" <bob(at)rkrogh.com>
Date: Aug 16, 2007
I would love to buy these books. Have a Corvair currently. How do I pay you the $ 25? Thanks, Bob Krogh Costa Mesa, CA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129510#129510 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/14/07
Date: Aug 16, 2007
The name you are looking for is Split Bolt. \\ Also is there is Piets around the LaCross, WI I will be there next week for a couple of days. Chet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/14/07 > > > Bill, > Wish I knew the correct name for the clamp. It is used by electricans, > ususally when attaching a smaller wire to a larger wire and can be bought > at any electrical supply store (about a buck). It is made of copper and > is U shaped. It comes in a number of different sizes. The two legs of > the U are threaded and has a nut that will force a wedge toward the bottom > of the U which acts as a clamp. Being made of copper, it will not damage > the cable. I used a 1/8" clamp for my 1/8th" cable. > I put the nicopress sleeve on the cable, wrapped the cable around the > thimble and back into the sleeve. I then placed the clamp directly behind > the sleeve, pulled the cable tight around the thimble and closed the > clamp. That way you can not only check your over all length of your made > up cable but the clamp servers to hold the sleeve in place while you crush > it. > I just did what I should have done before I ever wrote the first msg. I > called a supply store and found out the name. It's called a SPLIT > BOLT. Duh....... > Gene > > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Weir" <billweir(at)lon.imag.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:52 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/14/07 > > >> >> Please, whoever it was, would you send that message with the instructions >> re using electrical clamps to hold wires while nicoing them. I had it and >> I accidently deleted it, and I want it. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Bill Weir >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 269.11.19/953 - Release Date: 8/14/2007 5:19 PM >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Lowe" <nypnx211(at)charter.net>
Subject: Emailing: Compact Flash 128MB 048.jpg, Compact Flash 128MB
082.jpg
Date: Aug 16, 2007
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Compact Flash 128MB 048.jpg Compact Flash 128MB 082.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 17, 2007
From: Jonathan Scholl <chasamba9999(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: For Sale
A year ago, I bought Sam Marinucci's piet project. Unfortuantely, I will not be able to finish it either, and offer it for sale. it's located in Texas. You may have seen it on Barnstormers, too. give me an email if you are interested, and I will send pics. Here's is the description: Complete with the exception of covering and majoring the engine. A reconditioned Sensenich wooden prop ( 72x42) is also included.A few modifications on the plane such as a right side passenger door, a cutout in the wingcenter section (a la Mike Cuy) and a retracting step for easier access to the rear cockpit. A J3 fuel tank is mounted in the nose section and two additional J3 tanks that need some repair but are also included.The engine mount has been extended three inches for better weight and balance and the wing angled back two and a half inches for the same reason. The engine controls are all connected, as are all the instruments on the panel. The landing gear is similar to a J3 with C172 wheels tires and brakes. The spars are built up with Douglas Fir beams and 1/4 inch web between them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tailwheel steering arm question
Date: Aug 17, 2007
Guys (and gals?) Just finished building a tailwheel, and am scratching my head about what length to make the steering arms. How long are yours? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: tailwheel steering arm question
Date: Aug 17, 2007
Douwe; you're going to get a different answer from each Piet builder and pilot as to how long the steering arms are on their tailwheels. On 41CC, Corky made the arms plenty long and made several holes in each so the connection point could be changed. A couple of pictures for you: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/tailwh01.jpg shows the arms on Ernie Moreno's Piet, about as short as any you'll see. http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P6090001.JPG shows the ones on 41CC and you can see that I'm using the center holes on each arm. The outer holes are way too far out so actually these arms could be cut down. Maybe this gives you something to go by... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Aug 17, 2007
Subject: Tail wheel steering arm
I made my steering arms looong. About 12 inches between holes. The reason is that there was some discussion several years ago that if you hooked the tw. cables to the rudder cables, the tailwheel steering was going to be way too sensitive. (note how much longer the rudder bar is compared to the tail wheel "bar") (leverage over the tail wheel) Hopefully this will slow the steering down some. In a perfect Piet world the tail wheel cables ought to be placed on the rudder bar at he same distance out from the center pivot as they are on the tail wheel, but this is a routing night mare. I used these split bolts to attach the tail wheel cables to the rudder cables-2 each side for safety and they are in the cockpit for easy pre flight check. All this said, I haven't flown yet and it may all probe unsuccessful and it will be back to the drawing board. Leon S. in Wind swept Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel steering arm
Date: Aug 17, 2007
On my Piet the rudder horn and the tail wheel arms are the same length. Also the cables to the tail wheel are attached to the rudder cables aft of where they exit the fuselage about 18" ahead of the rudder horn. But then my rudder horn is down near the bottom of my rudder.. Steering is not sensitive and actually very comfortable in controlling the turns. Roman Bukolt NX20795 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel steering arm > > I made my steering arms looong. About 12 inches between holes. The > reason is that there was some discussion several years ago that if you > hooked the tw. cables to the rudder cables, the tailwheel steering was > going to be way too sensitive. (note how much longer the rudder bar is > compared to the tail wheel "bar") (leverage over the tail wheel) > Hopefully this will slow the steering down some. In a perfect Piet world > the tail wheel cables ought to be placed on the rudder bar at he same > distance out from the center pivot as they are on the tail wheel, but > this is a routing night mare. I used these split bolts to attach the > tail wheel cables to the rudder cables-2 each side for safety and they > are in the cockpit for easy pre flight check. All this said, I haven't > flown yet and it may all probe unsuccessful and it will be back to the > drawing board. Leon S. in Wind swept Ks. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Emailing: Compact Flash 128MB 048.jpg, Compact Flash
128MB 082.jpg Albert, Great pics. Seeing the C-47/DC3 made me think. Few years back a DC3 pilot told me an interesting fact. A DC3 can only be wheel landed. Three point/stall landings,,,not allowed. Anyone can confirm this? Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert Lowe To: AL LOWE Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Emailing: Compact Flash 128MB 048.jpg, Compact Flash 128MB 082.jpg The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Compact Flash 128MB 048.jpg Compact Flash 128MB 082.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 18, 2007
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off"
YEEEEEE HAAAAAA! She flys again!!!, The engine is running great.( Knock on wood) We got the new engine assembled last weekend and ran it monday. Runs great, 2 blades and RRRRRRRRRRRR. We put 1965 cylders, pistons, and heads on the ole jalopy and think we got her all figured out. I flew it for 20 min Friday night, Dad 20 min (1st time since he flew it as a glider), and 2-3 hrs today (Sat), it is running GREAT! My good buddy "Chewy", let us borrow a Snap-On timing light/ tach, and we found our tachometer is WAY THE F____ Off. At max power we indicate 3300rpm, actual is 2750rpm. I did 10 touch and goes tonight at sunset with not even a hic'up. Oil is still indicating a little high on the temp, but much better than 2 months ago. I flew over to Wyncoop airport with another good friend, who is a trans atlantic boeing US Air Capt, who was flying his son's J-3, and the old Corvair powered Piet BLEW THE DOOR OFF THE A-65 CUB! It out climbed, out cruised the Cub. Capt.Dan said I was at least 10mph faster than the Cub! Not too bad for a couple ole country boys who won't give up on the old Chevy. I have some good vidieo of the close formation flying, but it would take me 5 weeks to upload with my dial up. Next question: is anyone going to MERFI? I am. Me and "The Other Shad, (Capt. Dan's son with the Cub), are planning on going up. Mike Cuy?, Frank Pavilga? Skipp Gadd? Don Emch?. I am going to have a cook out (burgers, brats, home grown sweet corn) at my hanger at Chapman Memorial Airport(private and your invited) on the Saturday of the fly in mid afternoon.2-3 pm or so. Skipp, this is on your way home, you can fly home with a full belly, for free, and still make it home before dark. Anyone interested let me know. Skip, If you want to go let me know, you can fly up to my house and we can fly up as a flight of 3 on sat morning (you, me, and a J-3). Sorry this post is so long but I am still Excited (and a little bit drunk from the celibratory beers), But today, shooting wheel landing touch and goes while the sun set and not eating soy beans, or corn stalks was the flying Hi Light of my summer! Shad Let me know if anyone is going to MERFI!!!! Dont let the control tower scare you, all I have is a Sporty's handheld, GET 'ER' DONE! Shad --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2007
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off"
Congrats, Shad!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 19, 2007
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off"
Geat job, great story...and thanks for the valable troubleshooting information . john egan shad bell wrote: YEEEEEE HAAAAAA! She flys again!!!, The engine is running great.( Knock on wood) We got the new engine assembled last weekend and ran it monday. Runs great, 2 blades and RRRRRRRRRRRR. We put 1965 cylders, pistons, and heads on the ole jalopy and think we got her all figured out. I flew it for 20 min Friday night, Dad 20 min (1st time since he flew it as a glider), and 2-3 hrs today (Sat), it is running GREAT! My good buddy "Chewy", let us borrow a Snap-On timing light/ tach, and we found our tachometer is WAY THE F____ Off. At max power we indicate 3300rpm, actual is 2750rpm. I did 10 touch and goes tonight at sunset with not even a hic'up. Oil is still indicating a little high on the temp, but much better than 2 months ago. I flew over to Wyncoop airport with another good friend, who is a trans atlantic boeing US Air Capt, who was flying his son's J-3, and the old Corvair powered Piet BLEW THE DOOR OFF THE A-65 CUB! It out climbed, out cruised the Cub. Capt.Dan said I was at least 10mph faster than the Cub! Not too bad for a couple ole country boys who won't give up on the old Chevy. I have some good vidieo of the close formation flying, but it would take me 5 weeks to upload with my dial up. Next question: is anyone going to MERFI? I am. Me and "The Other Shad, (Capt. Dan's son with the Cub), are planning on going up. Mike Cuy?, Frank Pavilga? Skipp Gadd? Don Emch?. I am going to have a cook out (burgers, brats, home grown sweet corn) at my hanger at Chapman Memorial Airport(private and your invited) on the Saturday of the fly in mid afternoon.2-3 pm or so. Skipp, this is on your way home, you can fly home with a full belly, for free, and still make it home before dark. Anyone interested let me know. Skip, If you want to go let me know, you can fly up to my house and we can fly up as a flight of 3 on sat morning (you, me, and a J-3). Sorry this post is so long but I am still Excited (and a little bit drunk from the celibratory beers), But today, shooting wheel landing touch and goes while the sun set and not eating soy beans, or corn stalks was the flying Hi Light of my summer! Shad Let me know if anyone is going to MERFI!!!! Dont let the control tower scare you, all I have is a Sporty's handheld, GET 'ER' DONE! Shad --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off"
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Congrats Shad!! I know the feeling. Seems like a number of us have worked out our problems and filling the sky with Pietenpols! Gene (flying in Tennessee) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/18/2007 3:48 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Aug 19, 2007
congrats Shad Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GB and Shad flying and MERFI
Date: Aug 19, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Way to go, Shad...I'm glad it sounds like you guys are back in action for the last two months of open cockpit flying season in Ohio ! I won't be a MERFI but hope you guys have fun and have a brat for those who can't make it, would you ? Glad you're back in the air ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: bellcrank area: belly access door idea
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Thanks, Jerry A Return is requested, you'll see why! Breakfast at McDonald's This is a good story and is true, please read it all the way through until the end! (After the story, there are some very interesting facts!): I am a mother of three (ages 14, 12, 3) and have recently completed my college degree. The last class I had to take was Sociology. The teacher was absolutely inspiring with the qualities that I wish every human being had been graced with. Her last project of the term was called, "Smile." The class was asked to go out and smile at three people and document their reactions. I am a very friendly person and always smile at everyone and say hello anyway. So, I thought this would be a piece of cake, literally. Soon after we were assigned the project, my husband, youngest son, and I went out to McDonald's one crisp March morning. It was just our way of sharing special playtime with our son. We were standing in line, waiting to be served, when all of a sudden everyone around us began to back away, and then even my husband did. I did not move an inch... an overwhelming feeling of panic welled up inside of me as I turned to see why they had moved. As I turned around I smelled a horrible "dirty body" smell, and there standing behind me were two poor homeless men. As I looked down at the short gentleman, close to me, he was "smiling". His beautiful sky blue eyes were full of God's Light as he searched for acceptance. He said, "Good day" as he counted the few coins he had been clutching. The second man fumbled with his hands as he stood behind his friend. I realized the second man was mentally challenged and the blue-eyed gentleman was his salvation. I held my tears as I stood there with them. The young lady at the counter asked him what they wanted. He said, "Coffee is all Miss" because that was all they could afford. (If they wanted to sit in the restaurant and warm up, they had to buy something. He just wanted to be warm). Then I really felt it - the compulsion was so great I almost reached out and embraced the little man with the blue eyes. That is when I noticed all eyes in the restaurant were set on me, judging my every action. I smiled and asked the young lady behind the counter to give me two more breakfast meals on a separate tray. I then walked around the corner to the table that the men had chosen as a resting spot. I put the tray on the table and laid my hand on the blue-eyed gentleman's cold hand. He looked up at me, with tears in his eyes, and said, "Thank you." I leaned over, began to pat his hand and said, "I did not do this for you. God is here working through me to give you hope." I started to cry as I walked away to join my husband and son. When I sat down my husband smiled at me and said, "That is why God gave you to me, Honey, to give me hope." We held hands for a moment and at that time, we knew that only because of the Grace that we had been given were we able to give. We are not church-goers, but we are believers. That day showed me the pure Light of God's sweet love. I returned to college, on the last evening of class, with this story in hand. I turned in "my project" and the instructor read it. Then she looked up at me and said, "Can I share this?" I slowly nodded as she got the attention of the class. She began to read and that is when I knew that we as human beings and being part of God share this need to heal people and to be healed. In my own way I had touched the people at McDonald's, my son, instructor, and every soul that shared the classroom on the last night I spent as a college student. I graduated with one of the biggest lessons I would ever learn: UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. Much love and compassion is sent to each and every person who may read this and learn how to LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS - NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE PEOPLE. There is an Angel sent to watch over you. In order for her to work, you must pass this on to the people you want watched over. An Angel wrote: Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. To handle yourself, use your head. To handle others, use your heart. God Gives every bird it's food, but He does not throw it into its nest. Send it back, you'll see why! A Box of gold with a secret inside that has n ever been told. This box is priceless but as I see, the treasure inside is precious to me. Today I share this treasure with thee. It's the treasure of friendship you've given me. If this comes back to you then you'll have a friend for life but, if this becomes deleted, you are not a friend. Send this to everyone you consider a friend! This is a magic frog. It will grant you one wish and only one wish, that is, if you decide to send this to others. You can wish for anything. Repeat your wish until you have stopped scrolling. Make it count! FOR YOUR WISH TO COME TRUE YOU HAVE TO SEND IT TO: 3 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE EVENTUALLY 5 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRU E IN 3 MONTHS 10 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 5 WEEKS 15 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TR UE IN 1 WEEK CAN'T WAIT A WEEK??? 22 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 1 DAY!!!!! REMEMBER, THIS MUST BE SENT OUT THE DAY YOU READ IT FOR YOU TO GET YOUR WISH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 19, 2007
Subject: (no subject)
Hey Shad, glad to hear you and Gary had some good luck for a change. enjoy your flying! I am shooting the primer on mine this weekend and looking forward to the day I can finally say it fly's. NX294RB Robert Bush http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Some new Piet photos on the net
Date: Aug 19, 2007
The Canadian Goose was built by Paul Poulin from Beauceville, QB. He flew to Brodhead and I had a first-hand look at his craftsmanship. Magnificent! Allan Macklem Omaha, NE ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off"
Date: Aug 19, 2007
From: "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org>
Congratulations Shad!!!! Your success is an encouragement. I remember meeting you and your dad at Brodhead. Happy flying. Arden Adamson Waupaca,WI ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of shad bell Sent: Sat 8/18/2007 11:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off" YEEEEEE HAAAAAA! She flys again!!!, The engine is running great.( Knock on wood) We got the new engine assembled last weekend and ran it monday. Runs great, 2 blades and RRRRRRRRRRRR. We put 1965 cylders, pistons, and heads on the ole jalopy and think we got her all figured out. I flew it for 20 min Friday night, Dad 20 min (1st time since he flew it as a glider), and 2-3 hrs today (Sat), it is running GREAT! My good buddy "Chewy", let us borrow a Snap-On timing light/ tach, and we found our tachometer is WAY THE F____ Off. At max power we indicate 3300rpm, actual is 2750rpm. I did 10 touch and goes tonight at sunset with not even a hic'up. Oil is still indicating a little high on the temp, but much better than 2 months ago. I flew over to Wyncoop airport with another good friend, who is a trans atlantic boeing US Air Capt, who was flying his son's J-3, and the old Corvair powered Piet BLEW THE DOOR OFF THE A-65 CUB! It out climbed, out cruised the Cub. Capt.Dan said I was at least 10mph faster than the Cub! Not too bad for a couple ole country boys who won't give up on the old Chevy. I have some good vidieo of the close formation flying, but it would take me 5 weeks to upload with my dial up. Next question: is anyone going to MERFI? I am. Me and "The Other Shad, (Capt. Dan's son with the Cub), are planning on going up. Mike Cuy?, Frank Pavilga? Skipp Gadd? Don Emch?. I am going to have a cook out (burgers, brats, home grown sweet corn) at my hanger at Chapman Memorial Airport(private and your invited) on the Saturday of the fly in mid afternoon.2-3 pm or so. Skipp, this is on your way home, you can fly home with a full belly, for free, and still make it home before dark. Anyone interested let me know. Skip, If you want to go let me know, you can fly up to my house and we can fly up as a flight of 3 on sat morning (you, me, and a J-3). Sorry this post is so long but I am still Excited (and a little bit drunk from the celibratory beers), But today, shooting wheel landing touch and goes while the sun set and not eating soy beans, or corn stalks was the flying Hi Light of my summer! Shad Let me know if anyone is going to MERFI!!!! Dont let the control tower scare you, all I have is a Sporty's handheld, GET 'ER' DONE! Shad ________________________________ Choose the right car based on your needs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 20, 2007
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: bellcrank area: belly access door idea
Allan, Since this "story" was written by a woman, it is not your story. Do you know this woman? Do you know it is real? Which McDonald's and where? I don't think anyone needs to come in to get warm this week. Someone makes up these heartwarming pieces of fiction chain letters and we clog our boards with them. This is NOT personally aimed at you, for the message is inoffensive, and I am sure your forwarding it is well intended. It is a heartwarming story, and even brought tears to my eyes. Then I felt stupid for being taken in by this fictional piece. I guess with the tone of this reply there is no need for me to make a wish. Tim in central TX (having a curmudgeonly moment) -----Original Message----- >From: Allan Macklem <awmacklem(at)cox.net> >Sent: Aug 19, 2007 9:19 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank area: belly access door idea > >Thanks, Jerry > > >A Return is requested, you'll see why! > >Breakfast at McDonald's > >This is a good story and is true, please read it all the way through until the end! (After the story, there are some very interesting facts!): > >I am a mother of three (ages 14, 12, 3) and have recently completed my college degree. >The last class I had to take was Sociology. The teacher was absolutely inspiring with the qualities that I wish every human being had been graced with. Her last project of the term was called, "Smile." The class was asked to go out and smile at three people and document their reactions. > >I am a very friendly person and always smile at everyone and say hello anyway. So, I thought this would be a piece of cake, literally. > >Soon after we were assigned the project, my husband, youngest son, and I went out to McDonald's one crisp March morning. It was just our way of sharing special playtime with our son. We were standing in line, waiting to be served, when all of a sudden everyone around us began to back away, and then even my husband did. I did not move an inch... an overwhelming feeling of panic welled up inside of me as I turned to see why they had moved. > >As I turned around I smelled a horrible "dirty body" smell, and there standing behind me were two poor homeless men. As I looked down at the short gentleman, close to me, he was "smiling". His beautiful sky blue eyes were full of God's Light as he searched for acceptance. He said, "Good day" as he counted the few coins he had been clutching. > >The second man fumbled with his hands as he stood behind his friend. I realized the second man was mentally challenged and the blue-eyed gentleman was his salvation. > > >I held my tears as I stood there with them. > >The young lady at the counter asked him what they wanted. > >He said, "Coffee is all Miss" because that was all they could afford. (If they wanted to sit in the restaurant and warm up, they had to buy something. He just wanted to be warm). > >Then I really felt it - the compulsion was so great I almost reached out and embraced the little man with the blue eyes. That is when I noticed all eyes in the restaurant were set on me, judging my every action. I smiled and asked the young lady behind the counter to give me two more breakfast meals on a separate tray. I then walked around the corner to the table that the men had chosen as a resting spot. I put the tray on the table and laid my hand on the blue-eyed gentleman's cold hand. > >He looked up at me, with tears in his eyes, and said, "Thank you." > >I leaned over, began to pat his hand and said, "I did not do this for you. God is here working through me to give you hope." I started to cry as I walked away to join my husband and son. When I sat down my husband smiled at me and said, "That is why God gave you to me, Honey, to give me hope." > >We held hands for a moment and at that time, we knew that only because of the Grace that we had been given were we able to give. We are not church-goers, but we are believers. > >That day showed me the pure Light of God's sweet love. > >I returned to college, on the last evening of class, with this story in hand. I turned in "my project" and the instructor read it. Then she looked up at me and said, "Can I share this?" I slowly nodded as she got the attention of the class. > >She began to read and that is when I knew that we as human beings and being part of God share this need to heal people and to be healed. In my own way I had touched the people at McDonald's, my son, instructor, and every soul that shared the classroom on >the last night I spent as a college student. > >I graduated with one of the biggest lessons I would ever learn: UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. > >Much love and compassion is sent to each and every person who may read this and learn how to LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS - NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE >PEOPLE. > >There is an Angel sent to watch over you. In order for her to work, you must pass this on to the people you want watched over. > >An Angel wrote: Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. To handle yourself, use your head. To handle others, use your heart. God Gives every bird it's food, but He does not throw it into its nest. > >Send it back, you'll see why! > >A Box of gold with a secret inside that has n ever been told. >This box is priceless but as I see, the treasure inside is precious to me. > >Today I share this treasure with thee. It's the treasure of friendship you've >given me. > >If this comes back to you then you'll have a friend for life but, if this becomes deleted, you are not a friend. > >Send this to everyone you consider a friend! > >This is a magic frog. It will grant you one wish and only one wish, >that is, if you decide to send this to others. You can wish for anything. > >Repeat your wish until you have stopped scrolling. Make it count! > >FOR YOUR WISH TO COME TRUE YOU HAVE TO SEND IT >TO: >3 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE EVENTUALLY >5 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRU E IN 3 MONTHS >10 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 5 WEEKS >15 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TR UE IN 1 WEEK > >CAN'T WAIT A WEEK??? >22 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 1 DAY!!!!! > >REMEMBER, THIS MUST BE SENT OUT THE DAY YOU READ IT FOR YOU TO GET YOUR WISH > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: bellcrank area: belly access door idea
Date: Aug 20, 2007
yea, this story has been around for a few years. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Willis<mailto:timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 10:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank area: belly access door idea > Allan, Since this "story" was written by a woman, it is not your story. Do you know this woman? Do you know it is real? Which McDonald's and where? I don't think anyone needs to come in to get warm this week. Someone makes up these heartwarming pieces of fiction chain letters and we clog our boards with them. This is NOT personally aimed at you, for the message is inoffensive, and I am sure your forwarding it is well intended. It is a heartwarming story, and even brought tears to my eyes. Then I felt stupid for being taken in by this fictional piece. I guess with the tone of this reply there is no need for me to make a wish. Tim in central TX (having a curmudgeonly moment) -----Original Message----- >From: Allan Macklem <awmacklem(at)cox.net<mailto:awmacklem(at)cox.net>> >Sent: Aug 19, 2007 9:19 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank area: belly access door idea > >Thanks, Jerry > > > >A Return is requested, you'll see why! > >Breakfast at McDonald's > >This is a good story and is true, please read it all the way through until the end! (After the story, there are some very interesting facts!): > >I am a mother of three (ages 14, 12, 3) and have recently completed my college degree. >The last class I had to take was Sociology. The teacher was absolutely inspiring with the qualities that I wish every human being had been graced with. Her last project of the term was called, "Smile." The class was asked to go out and smile at three people and document their reactions. > >I am a very friendly person and always smile at everyone and say hello anyway. So, I thought this would be a piece of cake, literally. > >Soon after we were assigned the project, my husband, youngest son, and I went out to McDonald's one crisp March morning. It was just our way of sharing special playtime with our son. We were standing in line, waiting to be served, when all of a sudden everyone around us began to back away, and then even my husband did. I did not move an inch... an overwhelming feeling of panic welled up inside of me as I turned to see why they had moved. > >As I turned around I smelled a horrible "dirty body" smell, and there standing behind me were two poor homeless men. As I looked down at the short gentleman, close to me, he was "smiling". His beautiful sky blue eyes were full of God's Light as he searched for acceptance. He said, "Good day" as he counted the few coins he had been clutching. > >The second man fumbled with his hands as he stood behind his friend. I realized the second man was mentally challenged and the blue-eyed gentleman was his salvation. > > >I held my tears as I stood there with them. > >The young lady at the counter asked him what they wanted. > >He said, "Coffee is all Miss" because that was all they could afford. (If they wanted to sit in the restaurant and warm up, they had to buy something. He just wanted to be warm). > >Then I really felt it - the compulsion was so great I almost reached out and embraced the little man with the blue eyes. That is when I noticed all eyes in the restaurant were set on me, judging my every action. I smiled and asked the young lady behind the counter to give me two more breakfast meals on a separate tray. I then walked around the corner to the table that the men had chosen as a resting spot. I put the tray on the table and laid my hand on the blue-eyed gentleman's cold hand. > >He looked up at me, with tears in his eyes, and said, "Thank you." > >I leaned over, began to pat his hand and said, "I did not do this for you. God is here working through me to give you hope." I started to cry as I walked away to join my husband and son. When I sat down my husband smiled at me and said, "That is why God gave you to me, Honey, to give me hope." > >We held hands for a moment and at that time, we knew that only because of the Grace that we had been given were we able to give. We are not church-goers, but we are believers. > >That day showed me the pure Light of God's sweet love. > >I returned to college, on the last evening of class, with this story in hand. I turned in "my project" and the instructor read it. Then she looked up at me and said, "Can I share this?" I slowly nodded as she got the attention of the class. > >She began to read and that is when I knew that we as human beings and being part of God share this need to heal people and to be healed. In my own way I had touched the people at McDonald's, my son, instructor, and every soul that shared the classroom on >the last night I spent as a college student. > >I graduated with one of the biggest lessons I would ever learn: UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. > >Much love and compassion is sent to each and every person who may read this and learn how to LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS - NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE >PEOPLE. > >There is an Angel sent to watch over you. In order for her to work, you must pass this on to the people you want watched over. > >An Angel wrote: Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. To handle yourself, use your head. To handle others, use your heart. God Gives every bird it's food, but He does not throw it into its nest. > >Send it back, you'll see why! > >A Box of gold with a secret inside that has n ever been told. >This box is priceless but as I see, the treasure inside is precious to me. > >Today I share this treasure with thee. It's the treasure of friendship you've >given me. > >If this comes back to you then you'll have a friend for life but, if this becomes deleted, you are not a friend. > >Send this to everyone you consider a friend! > >This is a magic frog. It will grant you one wish and only one wish, >that is, if you decide to send this to others. You can wish for anything. > >Repeat your wish until you have stopped scrolling. Make it count! > >FOR YOUR WISH TO COME TRUE YOU HAVE TO SEND IT >TO: >3 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE EVENTUALLY >5 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRU E IN 3 MONTHS >10 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 5 WEEKS >15 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TR UE IN 1 WEEK > >CAN'T WAIT A WEEK??? >22 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 1 DAY!!!!! > >REMEMBER, THIS MUST BE SENT OUT THE DAY YOU READ IT FOR YOU TO GET YOUR WISH > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Winter <twinter1(at)unl.edu>
Subject: Re: bellcrank area: belly access door idea
Date: Aug 20, 2007
The Cessna 150 list has a great policy: zero tolerance for spam. This should include chain letters. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: bellcrank area: belly access door idea
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Well said Tim. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank area: belly access door idea > > > Allan, > > Since this "story" was written by a woman, it is not your story. Do you > know this woman? Do you know it is real? Which McDonald's and where? I > don't think anyone needs to come in to get warm this week. Someone makes > up these heartwarming pieces of fiction chain letters and we clog our > boards with them. > > This is NOT personally aimed at you, for the message is inoffensive, and I > am sure your forwarding it is well intended. It is a heartwarming story, > and even brought tears to my eyes. Then I felt stupid for being taken in > by this fictional piece. > > I guess with the tone of this reply there is no need for me to make a > wish. > > Tim in central TX (having a curmudgeonly moment) > >.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > -- > 1:08 PM > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off"
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Shad, Great to hear the Piet is flying again! I would like to fly to MERFI. When would you be leaving Saturday morning? We often have morning fog here that hampers leaving here too early. DUATS says it will take me 2 hours, no wind to get to MFD, so I think about 1.5 to Chapman. I was thinking maybe I would fly up Friday and camp, than back on Saturday. Anyway it all depends on the weather. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell Sent: 8/19/2007 12:34:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "NX92GB Cleared for Take-Off" YEEEEEE HAAAAAA! She flys again!!!, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: bellcrank area: belly access door idea
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Thank you ----- Original Message ----- From: Allan Macklem To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bellcrank area: belly access door idea Thanks, Jerry A Return is requested, you'll see why! Breakfast at McDonald's This is a good story and is true, please read it all the way through until the end! (After the story, there are some very interesting facts!): I am a mother of three (ages 14, 12, 3) and have recently completed my college degree. The last class I had to take was Sociology. The teacher was absolutely inspiring with the qualities that I wish every human being had been graced with. Her last project of the term was called, "Smile." The class was asked to go out and smile at three people and document their reactions. I am a very friendly person and always smile at everyone and say hello anyway. So, I thought this would be a piece of cake, literally. Soon after we were assigned the project, my husband, youngest son, and I went out to McDonald's one crisp March morning. It was just our way of sharing special playtime with our son. We were standing in line, waiting to be served, when all of a sudden everyone around us began to back away, and then even my husband did. I did not move an inch... an overwhelming feeling of panic welled up inside of me as I turned to see why they had moved. As I turned around I smelled a horrible "dirty body" smell, and there standing behind me were two poor homeless men. As I looked down at the short gentleman, close to me, he was "smiling". His beautiful sky blue eyes were full of God's Light as he searched for acceptance. He said, "Good day" as he counted the few coins he had been clutching. The second man fumbled with his hands as he stood behind his friend. I realized the second man was mentally challenged and the blue-eyed gentleman was his salvation. I held my tears as I stood there with them. The young lady at the counter asked him what they wanted. He said, "Coffee is all Miss" because that was all they could afford. (If they wanted to sit in the restaurant and warm up, they had to buy something. He just wanted to be warm). Then I really felt it - the compulsion was so great I almost reached out and embraced the little man with the blue eyes. That is when I noticed all eyes in the restaurant were set on me, judging my every action. I smiled and asked the young lady behind the counter to give me two more breakfast meals on a separate tray. I then walked around the corner to the table that the men had chosen as a resting spot. I put the tray on the table and laid my hand on the blue-eyed gentleman's cold hand. He looked up at me, with tears in his eyes, and said, "Thank you." I leaned over, began to pat his hand and said, "I did not do this for you. God is here working through me to give you hope." I started to cry as I walked away to join my husband and son. When I sat down my husband smiled at me and said, "That is why God gave you to me, Honey, to give me hope." We held hands for a moment and at that time, we knew that only because of the Grace that we had been given were we able to give. We are not church-goers, but we are believers. That day showed me the pure Light of God's sweet love. I returned to college, on the last evening of class, with this story in hand. I turned in "my project" and the instructor read it. Then she looked up at me and said, "Can I share this?" I slowly nodded as she got the attention of the class. She began to read and that is when I knew that we as human beings and being part of God share this need to heal people and to be healed. In my own way I had touched the people at McDonald's, my son, instructor, and every soul that shared the classroom on the last night I spent as a college student. I graduated with one of the biggest lessons I would ever learn: UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. Much love and compassion is sent to each and every person who may read this and learn how to LOVE PEOPLE AND USE THINGS - NOT LOVE THINGS AND USE PEOPLE. There is an Angel sent to watch over you. In order for her to work, you must pass this on to the people you want watched over. An Angel wrote: Many people will walk in and out of your life, but only true friends will leave footprints in your heart. To handle yourself, use your head. To handle others, use your heart. God Gives every bird it's food, but He does not throw it into its nest. Send it back, you'll see why! A Box of gold with a secret inside that has n ever been told. This box is priceless but as I see, the treasure inside is precious to me. Today I share this treasure with thee. It's the treasure of friendship you've given me. If this comes back to you then you'll have a friend for life but, if this becomes deleted, you are not a friend. Send this to everyone you consider a friend! This is a magic frog. It will grant you one wish and only one wish, that is, if you decide to send this to others. You can wish for anything. Repeat your wish until you have stopped scrolling. Make it count! FOR YOUR WISH TO COME TRUE YOU HAVE TO SEND IT TO: 3 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE EVENTUALLY 5 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRU E IN 3 MONTHS 10 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 5 WEEKS 15 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TR UE IN 1 WEEK CAN'T WAIT A WEEK??? 22 PEOPLE - YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE IN 1 DAY!!!!! REMEMBER, THIS MUST BE SENT OUT THE DAY YOU READ IT FOR YOU TO GET YOUR WISH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Javier Cruz" <javcr(at)prodigy.net.mx>
Subject: any Pietenpol near to Dallas
Date: Aug 20, 2007
Hi Piets, tomorrow i have to fly to Dallas Love for maintanence to the plane that i fly so i have maybe three days off there, any lister that i want to share his project with a mexican Piet fan? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham and Robyn" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re DC3 landings
Date: Aug 21, 2007
Hi all I recently noticed a query on the Web as whether DC3'''s could be three pointed. Have waited for some one to react to no avail so here is my two cents worth. It is many years since I last flew a DC3 but still have vivid memories of them. I have over 7000 hours in command of these wonderful ships and can certainly confirm that they may be three pointed. The exercise was always quite a challenge, & if you held off just slightly too high , this resulted in just enough sink to touch down with an almighty clang which sounded like 500 empty tin cans being crushed. On the other hand if you jagged it exactly right just as the stick was fully back it would be a real greaser, & extremely satisfying. This followed an approach at 81 kts and as the flair was commenced the power was right off & the props pushed to full fine The average pilot never risked a 3 pointer with passengers as even though the arrival was very safe, it took a lot of luck & judgement to get it right, & in most cases the pilot achieved his 3 pointer at the expense of subjecting his passengers to a memorable arrival. I am reminded of my DC3 days every time I plug my two hearing aids into my ears but reckon that being deaf is still worth it. Cheers Graham Hewitt Piet builder from Perth West Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: tenpol-List:NX92GB and MERFI
Skipp, I am not sure exsactly what time I will depart for MFD on Sat, it will depend on who all is going to fly up. If My friend decides to go up in his J-3 I will fly up with him. If you want to fly up with us let me know. I imagine it will be at least 9am or so before we leave. If you end up flying up to MFD on friday, stop by here on your way and we can do some flying around the local area if you want to. I sleep untill about noon or so on friday, because I work all night mon-thurs and get off work at 7:30 am. Stay in touch and I'll try to get back to you later in the week. Shad --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Keep going Robert your almost there. As for our "good luck", I knock on wood with every takeoff (usually the 1/8 inch plywood glued to the side of the fuselage). Just some advice from our experiance, if you havent already, do some extended full power runs. 5 min. at a time if the engine stays cool enough on the ground. This should be long enough to find any imidiate problems your engine may have. I hope you don't have any of the wierd problems we had, although they are educational they are scary and expensive as well. Happy Painting Shad --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 21, 2007
This was just posted to the Rotary aviation forum at: http://www.flyrotary.com/ by Mr. Ernest Christley, and may be of interest to EAArs disappointed with the current state of the organization. Michael Silvius ============================ Following the lead of a fellow member of the Dyke Delta Yahoo group, Bernie, I sent the editors at EAA an email explaining why I was not renewing my membership. It looks like Bernie and I either spoke to soon, or our actions are finally having the intended effect. I'll not argue the point either way, but I got some news through the grapevine this weekend that is very encouraging concerning the EAA. The editor of Sport Aviation has been fired. Now, I hate to see anyone lose their job, but here is how I understand the situation. The guy took a job editing what should be an intensely hardcore aviation publication, and he didn't have so much as a PP-SEL. It appears that he had no interest in flying airplanes, and even less in building one. He was in the wrong place. That's sad; both for him and the EAA membership. Over the past year, EAA membership dropped 20%. Sport Aviation content was cited most often as the reason. That is sad; both for him and the membership. He is being replaced. I wish him luck in finding a position better suited for him, but the bigger issue for EAA members (past and present) is why he was replaced. The board of directors saw the 20% drop in membership and started asking why. Have you seen the makeup of the board? Sport Aviation printed the nominees for the next year a couple months back. There weren't but a couple that had ever worked on an airplane, and I believe only one nominee that had ever built anything. The rest were bean counters and management types, with a couple academics thrown in. While bean counters and management types are both necessary and useful, I think it wouldn't be that hard to find a few that had built at least one airplane and would know what is wrong with the EAA's focus. Instead, they, being bean counters and management types, do what bean counters and management types do. They look at spreadsheets and charts and try to draw a picture of reality from the summarization. Spreadsheets and charts leave out a lot of data and twist reality all to easily. Until the membership started dropping, they assumed everything was hunky-dory, and all the talk about losing focus was just background noise. Now the moaning has risen to a roar. Members are leaving. So, we've punched them in the nose to get their attention. It is time for a come to Jesus meeting where we calmly and clearly explain what the problem is. If you've left the EAA without an explanation, please send a quick email to editorial(at)eaa.org and state why you left. Just a few polite lines so that they will know. If you're considering not renewing your membership, let them know that. If you've tried to make your voice heard before, but feel you were rebuked, please try again. I believe the microphone is turned your way now. If you know someone who is trying to fix the EAA from the inside, please mention their efforts so that the board will have insiders to turn to for advise. It's not often that an organization as large as the EAA will see one in five members drop out in a single year. This is an historic opportunity to set thing straight. The people in charge will be paying attention like never before. It may be that the editor will just be a scapegoat, and it will be back to business as usual in a few months. I think it more likely that the board is genuinely concerned, but they just don't understand. If we speak up and the situation is the former, then we can say, "We told you so" next year when the membership drops another 20%. If the situation is the latter then speaking up now will help draw back the 20% that left and insure that they stay. It is my opinion that the problem with the EAA is that the leadership has forgotten why we are building airplanes. It is NOT, by any means, simply to have an airplane. The analysis has been done all over the place, and everyone agrees it would be more economical and less labor intensive to get a second job, buy an airplane now, and be in the air immediately. *WE* as builders know that. We're not stupid...DANG-IT! The reason we build airplanes is....get this....PRIDE! Plane (har-har) and simple. We want to say, "I built that." We want to compare our workmanship to the guy on the next row, and marvel at the simplicity/uniqueness/complexity/workmanship of the guy on the next. The more bolt-on, manufactured goods are added, the less pride is involved. The more the leadership has forgotten that PRIDE is the driving force and been lured astray by advertising dollars from manufactured goods, the more they've eaten away at the heart of the organization. Now, I've got nothing against manufactured goods, or their advertising. There are some parts of my project that I just had no interest in making, wheel hubs, for example, so I chose to buy those off the shelf. The problem is that I often get the feeling from the EAA organization that my project is lessened by it not being a kit, or by me making my own strobes or marker lights. If I'm building out of pride, and you look down your nose at me for building...well, that's just a punch in the gut, and I don't really care to be around you. You can't go around punching your members and expect them to keep coming back. Ernest Christley ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Well, that makes me mighty proud of Ernest. He's in my EAA Chapter, and I've looked at his Dyke Delta project in my role as Chapter Technical Counselor. He's doing an excellent job on his Delta. As he indicated, he's made just about everything on that plane himself, including the Mazda Rotary engine conversion he's putting on it. He makes good points in his letter. In my opinion, Sport Aviation has not been very good since Jack Cox retired as editor. It has gotten where every month I flip through the magazine, dog-earing the articles I want to come back and read. It is sad to see how many recent issues are sitting on my shelf with no pages dog-eared. Hopefully the EAA leadership will listen. For the last few years they were focused on corporate sponsorship. Then there was the Light Sport Aircraft, but that didn't turn out the way most of us thought it would. Instead of encouraging new pilots and new inexpensive designs, it has encouraged wealthier older pilots to keep flying and keep buying $100K+ airplanes. Gone are the days when the EAA develops easy to build designs like the EAA Biplane and the Acrosport for the membership. Kitplanes are a reality now but are not the death-knell of homebuilding. After I finished my Pietenpol Air Camper I started working on a Van's RV-10 and am about half through building it. Not as enjoyable as building from scratch, at least to me, but a lot of people don't have the skills or equipment to make every last part of an airplane, and there is still a lot of knowledge to be gained by building a kit. Perhaps we the members should insist that at least half of the board of directors have built at least one airplane. Personally, I think every one of them should have at least some homebuilding experience, and it goes without saying that everyone on the staff should have at least a PP-ASEL rating. Maybe we should insist that Tom Poberezny should perhaps build an airplane himself. I'm sure there is someone in his family who could help him over the rough spots. I've been in the EAA a long time, and will continue to support it. In spite of its many shortcomings, it still is the ONLY organization that supports sport flying, and it still publishes an awful lot of good information on building aircraft. Not much new stuff since Tony Bingelis left us, but at least they still publish his works. Jack Phillips EAA 81225 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL SILVIUS Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: encouraging changes at EAA? --> This was just posted to the Rotary aviation forum at: http://www.flyrotary.com/ by Mr. Ernest Christley, and may be of interest to EAA'rs disappointed with the current state of the organization. Michael Silvius ============================ Following the lead of a fellow member of the Dyke Delta Yahoo group, Bernie, I sent the editors at EAA an email explaining why I was not renewing my membership. It looks like Bernie and I either spoke to soon, or our actions are finally having the intended effect. I'll not argue the point either way, but I got some news through the grapevine this weekend that is very encouraging concerning the EAA. The editor of Sport Aviation has been fired. Now, I hate to see anyone lose their job, but here is how I understand the situation. The guy took a job editing what should be an intensely hardcore aviation publication, and he didn't have so much as a PP-SEL. It appears that he had no interest in flying airplanes, and even less in building one. He was in the wrong place. That's sad; both for him and the EAA membership. Over the past year, EAA membership dropped 20%. Sport Aviation content was cited most often as the reason. That is sad; both for him and the membership. He is being replaced. I wish him luck in finding a position better suited for him, but the bigger issue for EAA members (past and present) is why he was replaced. The board of directors saw the 20% drop in membership and started asking why. Have you seen the makeup of the board? Sport Aviation printed the nominees for the next year a couple months back. There weren't but a couple that had ever worked on an airplane, and I believe only one nominee that had ever built anything. The rest were bean counters and management types, with a couple academics thrown in. While bean counters and management types are both necessary and useful, I think it wouldn't be that hard to find a few that had built at least one airplane and would know what is wrong with the EAA's focus. Instead, they, being bean counters and management types, do what bean counters and management types do. They look at spreadsheets and charts and try to draw a picture of reality from the summarization. Spreadsheets and charts leave out a lot of data and twist reality all to easily. Until the membership started dropping, they assumed everything was hunky-dory, and all the talk about losing focus was just background noise. Now the moaning has risen to a roar. Members are leaving. So, we've punched them in the nose to get their attention. It is time for a come to Jesus meeting where we calmly and clearly explain what the problem is. If you've left the EAA without an explanation, please send a quick email to editorial(at)eaa.org and state why you left. Just a few polite lines so that they will know. If you're considering not renewing your membership, let them know that. If you've tried to make your voice heard before, but feel you were rebuked, please try again. I believe the microphone is turned your way now. If you know someone who is trying to fix the EAA from the inside, please mention their efforts so that the board will have insiders to turn to for advise. It's not often that an organization as large as the EAA will see one in five members drop out in a single year. This is an historic opportunity to set thing straight. The people in charge will be paying attention like never before. It may be that the editor will just be a scapegoat, and it will be back to business as usual in a few months. I think it more likely that the board is genuinely concerned, but they just don't understand. If we speak up and the situation is the former, then we can say, "We told you so" next year when the membership drops another 20%. If the situation is the latter then speaking up now will help draw back the 20% that left and insure that they stay. It is my opinion that the problem with the EAA is that the leadership has forgotten why we are building airplanes. It is NOT, by any means, simply to have an airplane. The analysis has been done all over the place, and everyone agrees it would be more economical and less labor intensive to get a second job, buy an airplane now, and be in the air immediately. *WE* as builders know that. We're not stupid...DANG-IT! The reason we build airplanes is....get this....PRIDE! Plane (har-har) and simple. We want to say, "I built that." We want to compare our workmanship to the guy on the next row, and marvel at the simplicity/uniqueness/complexity/workmanship of the guy on the next. The more bolt-on, manufactured goods are added, the less pride is involved. The more the leadership has forgotten that PRIDE is the driving force and been lured astray by advertising dollars from manufactured goods, the more they've eaten away at the heart of the organization. Now, I've got nothing against manufactured goods, or their advertising. There are some parts of my project that I just had no interest in making, wheel hubs, for example, so I chose to buy those off the shelf. The problem is that I often get the feeling from the EAA organization that my project is lessened by it not being a kit, or by me making my own strobes or marker lights. If I'm building out of pride, and you look down your nose at me for building...well, that's just a punch in the gut, and I don't really care to be around you. You can't go around punching your members and expect them to keep coming back. Ernest Christley _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 21, 2007
Subject: Re: encouraging changes at EAA?
I really dislike getting on the me too band wagon, however. I dropped my membership some time ago because the national organization didn't offer me anything I considered useful. I joined the local chapter when I started my build and once again became quickly disenchanted. It appears to be a social organization of people that like to do the fly in circuit, take buss trips and hold picnics. All that's great, but I couldn't find a builder in the group, I haven't attended many meetings but the ones I have attended always centered around fundraiser's and social trips and tours and little if anything said about building. I would love to find a chapter in Central Pennsylvania that has builders, more importantly would be a Piet expert or mentor who can answer questions and make recommendations while visiting my project. I have nothing against do that on this board, its just a bit easier to explain, show and have full discussion when you're face to face with another builder. I suppose that's one of the main reasons I visit builders anytime I am traveling. I want to see , discuss and learn all I can about Piet building I want mine to be the best Piet I can build and I want it to stand as such. My apologies for the rant, I really wish there were an organization made up of builders! even better would be Piet builders with a phone number you could call for help when you needed it or have some one come out and inspect your project at important stages to insure the bird you build although you own is going to be well build and safe to fly. Sorry for the rant, it just gets a little frustrating. No one on the red board builds and few on POA actually build and I haven't been on the EAA site to see if anyone builds there. It amazes me that after purchasing the entire set of build books by Tony Bengalis from the EAA book store that they would try to get me to join. Not even! Until now, its possible they just didn't care about expanding membership, cultivating the builder network. I hope to see a change for the better. John http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 21, 2007
> In my opinion, Sport Aviation has not been very good since Jack Cox > retired as editor. Jack Cox is still producing a high quality aviation magazine. http://sportsmanpilot.com/ Additionally, if you want hard-core experimental aviation, you should check out www.ContactMagazine.com Click on the link to back issues then look for issue #72 for a free download of an older (but highly representative) version of the magazine. Everyone interested in experimental aviation should subscribe to BOTH of these fine magazines; you Piet builders and/or flyers (or wannabe's like me) should ALL subscribe to Doc Mosher's Pietenpol newsletter! www.pietenpols.org In fact, you as a Piet builder, flyer and/or wannabe should be ASHAMED if you are not a subscriber and supporter of Doc's work. BUT!!! You should also belong to organizations such as EAA and AOPA for the political things we can do in numbers that we can't do as individuals. EAA is not about magazines; that's only a small part of the benefits of belonging. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 21, 2007
I, too, hope that EAA returns to its roots. When I was first affiliated with EAA in the late 1960's, scratch building a homebuilt was, to my knowledge, the only option. I flew my dad's Smith Miniplane to the last Rockford flyin in 1969 (photo in the October 1969 edition of Sport Aviation) and marvelled at row after row of "plans built" aircraft including the latest offering in the simple design category--the Volksplane. I've been to OSH twice in this century, and as many of you will note, many of the old designs that started EAA are not numerous. Perhaps that is a reflection on the times in which we live, but I did see a Model A-powered Air Camper that always had people around it. That's one reason I like the BHP designs--they remind us of a different era when a builder had to find parts and make decisions regarding materials. Twenty years ago, I was much too impatient to build. As I get older, the fun for me with my Sky Scout is in the gathering, like finding the tail skid spring at a local farm supply store and paying .19 cents for a mahagony knob for my control stick that my wife and I found at a flea market. Each time I finish a task that I've never done before (like machining the steel rod for my landing gear hinges), I am encouraged to keep going. Perhaps there is a life lesson in all of this musing. Terry Hall EAA 367090 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 21, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Re DC3 landings
Thanks Graham! The question was posted by me. Thanks for the details. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham and Robyn To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re DC3 landings Hi all I recently noticed a query on the Web as whether DC3'''s could be three pointed. Have waited for some one to react to no avail so here is my two cents worth. It is many years since I last flew a DC3 but still have vivid memories of them. I have over 7000 hours in command of these wonderful ships and can certainly confirm that they may be three pointed. The exercise was always quite a challenge, & if you held off just slightly too high , this resulted in just enough sink to touch down with an almighty clang which sounded like 500 empty tin cans being crushed. On the other hand if you jagged it exactly right just as the stick was fully back it would be a real greaser, & extremely satisfying. This followed an approach at 81 kts and as the flair was commenced the power was right off & the props pushed to full fine The average pilot never risked a 3 pointer with passengers as even though the arrival was very safe, it took a lot of luck & judgement to get it right, & in most cases the pilot achieved his 3 pointer at the expense of subjecting his passengers to a memorable arrival. I am reminded of my DC3 days every time I plug my two hearing aids into my ears but reckon that being deaf is still worth it. Cheers Graham Hewitt Piet builder from Perth West Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Carb Heat Muffs
Date: Aug 21, 2007
I am considering making new headers (exhaust) for my A-75, and I am trying to determine what is the most economical yet effective way to attach a carb heat muff to a single exhaust pipe. Currently, my headers are shortened Aeronca 7AC headers. Does anyone have suggestions or pictures of your carb heat muff? Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Carb Heat Muffs
Date: Aug 22, 2007
Steve; if you want to fab your own there are some construction details of a simple carb heat box on a single pipe on Mark Langford's site, at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/airbox/ I think Mark also tried an off-the-shelf (Wicks/Spruce) muff on his setup so that's another option. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Messenger Caf open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 22, 2007
Jack, Did you ever change over to your new wood prop? My 74 X 38 seems to work really well (of course after my old prop a warped 2 X 4 would seem to do really well). Gene -> > > > -- > 4:02 PM > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 22, 2007
Speaking of props. Does anyone have an extra prop for the Model A engine, or a recommendation of the best source? Thanks, Max ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:24 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: encouraging changes at EAA? > > > Jack, Did you ever change over to your new wood prop? My 74 X 38 seems to > work really well (of course after my old prop a warped 2 X 4 would seem to > do really well). > Gene > -> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 4:02 PM >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
Subject: [ Bill Church ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bill Church Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Brodhead 2007 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/eng@canadianrogers.com.08.22.2007/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Took my first lesson this week
Date: Aug 22, 2007
I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: In defense of bean counters and academics
I agree with a lot of what has been said about the direction that EAA has gone in the recent past and here's hoping that they expand back into the direction of the little guy. Turning 45 this Friday, I can now proudly say that "recent" to me means "in the past 20 years"! Anyway, I have to take exception to the thought that it was the "bean counters" and the "academics" that had ANYTHING to do with the direction that EAA took. You may be surprised at the income levels of "bean counters" and "academics". Being an "academic", I can assure you that owning one-third of a Pietenpol and driving one very used car is about all my vehicle budget can stand. People at the level of "bean counters" and "academics" are the people who populate this board and make up the backbone of EAA and other volunteer organizations across America. I, like others in this conversion, took a close look at the make-up of EAA's board of directors a while ago. Far from "bean counters" and "academics", the majority of the board was (and maybe still is) made up of extreme upper level management/executive types/business owners. As Casey Stengel used to say, "You could look it up!" I am sure that EAA had its reasons for going this direction, and no doubt the board provided direction along a path that filled the coffers and helped with what EAA leadership viewed as political realities. There is nothing wrong with that. You want people on Boards who are successful and can get things done. And, there is no substitute for solvency. BUT... You should never let that get in the way of what you're actually trying to achieve. It may be that EAA has arrived at that conclusion and hence the changes. I'll be more encouraged to see changes in the make up of the board and not just the firing of a magazine editor. I will now go practice saying my new favorite phrases: "Harumph!" and "You kids get the hell off my lawn!" Hey, this old age thing ain't half bad... ;) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 22, 2007
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Scott, Congratulations! What are you training in? Jeff >I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot >of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn >coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was >having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is >coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the >turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts >and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I >should get pics up later this week. > > -Scott Schreiber > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this weekA 1961 172 with manual flaps. _Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week Scott, Congratulations! What are you training in? Jeff I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Scott, Just remember the old saying "step on the ball" Whenever the ball isn't centered, give rudder pressure on the side it's creeping to. Like magic it slides back. Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: encouraging changes at EAA?
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Not yet - haven't had time this summer, what with Brodhead and OSH and all. Maybe I'll do it this winter during the annual condition inspection. It flies pretty well with the Sensenich. Jack Phillips Sweltering in Raleigh -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: encouraging changes at EAA? --> Jack, Did you ever change over to your new wood prop? My 74 X 38 seems to work really well (of course after my old prop a warped 2 X 4 would seem to do really well). Gene -> > > > -- > 4:02 PM > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Took my first lesson this week
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Cool, Scott! What are you learning to fly in? You will treasure these memories. I took my first lesson 38 years ago and still remember it, and my first solo, and first solo cross country. You are now a pilot, and will never be the same. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 11:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Scott, when you are in level flight, try just wagging the tail a bit with the rudders. Doing this occasionally helped me to learn the feel/effectiveness of the rudder. Just be aware that at different air speeds it will respond differently. You're in for a treat if you like a challenge. There will be things you do in your training that I was scared to death of when I went though it, but I learned to love those things more than anything else we did. Good luck with it, fly safe! Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Value of EAA
Pieters, Interesting to read the frequent comments about EAA. Pro and con comments will in the end mean a stronger organization. I have not kept up with EAA for the last few years nor have I continued my membership. I do read the magazines as my next door neighbor furnishes. If you don't have EAA what do you have between the builder and FAA? Some organization MUST be vigilant to counter the effects of those Washington dreamers and changers. Granted that EAA has gone offtrack from it's original purposes but I'll give them credit for judgement. When I joined EAA was being run by Mr & Mrs Paul P, never could pronounce his last name, from their residence in Hales Corner, Wis. He was working full time during the day and EAAing at night and on weekends. Dues were $10 and you got a magazine. The organization spurred the homebuilding movement worldwide. There was absolutely NOTHING along this line before nor has there been anything new since. EAA had to change with the times. Kit planes, ultra lights and now LSA dominate the scene and this is good for aviation. I hope it won't be long before everyone can look up in the skies and see Cubs, Aeroncas, Pietenpols, Wacos, Stinsons, Cessnas, Beeches, Taylorcrafts, Birds, Standards, Travel Airs, Ryans as well as the RV series and all those fine kit planes flying happily every Sat and Sun afternoon in the good ole USA and Canada Corky EAA 7090 http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: keeping the Piet
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
I have decided instead of selling the Piet and keeping the N3 Pup that I would reverse this decision and sell the N3 keeping the Piet since am having just too much fun flying the Piet (gn-1 aircamper).It means that I will still have to rent the hanger but at least I will have room for others to join me in that hanger to help cover the cost.I have up to 4hrs. on the Piet now and everything is running as advertised.I have been invited to join the Vintage Wings production at Rockliffe at the museum this weekend as a static display which is a real honour for me.I will be landing at Rockliffe this Sunday sometime around 8 to 830 if all goes well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hall" <adaairport(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Scott, Congratulations on a successful first lesson. In no time at all, you'll have your helmet, goggles, and scarf like the rest of us. Fly as often as you can--twice a day if your schedule allows. You'll be surprised how quickly it comes together. Terry Hall Ada, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Schreiber To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week I now have 1, count it, 1 hour, in my log book. I did OK with allot of things, rolling out on a heading, decents, and what not. My turn coordination and rudder intputs left something to be desired. I was having trouble getting use to the rudder pedal feel. The plane is coming along well, I have almost all the fittings on the wing, the turnbuckles on the center section and will be working on the struts and strut fittings soon. I finished the ailerons and cut them out. I should get pics up later this week. -Scott Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Sounds like my first lesson, except it only lasted .06 hr. On my second lesson the instructor had me recovering from unusual attitudes by instruments under the hood. It was July and 103 degrees (bumpy). It took a month for my stomach to quit hurting and to take my 3rd. lesson. Keep at it. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Our weather was interesting, there was no horizon and you couldn't get above 2,500. There were a few nasty spots and I remember asking my instructor a few times if I induced that. Part of my problem is the area of brake and the area of rudder on the pedal. I did OK in taxing but in the air it seemed like only the first 1/2 inch of the pedal was rudder. I know it's me and I will get it sorted out. -Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Took my first lesson this week > > Sounds like my first lesson, except it only lasted .06 hr. On my second > lesson the instructor had me recovering from unusual attitudes by > instruments under the hood. It was July and 103 degrees (bumpy). It took > a month for my stomach to quit hurting and to take my 3rd. lesson. Keep > at it. Leon S. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
From: "Glenn W. Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
The attached .pdf was shared with me at Brodhead. It shows a concerning decline in new pilots over the last 20 years. Don't know what the relationship to EAA is but it would appear that if their (EAA) cause is to bring more people into aviation, they are failing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
For me, I haven't joined because of the cost. I can't afford to build the plane I'm building, and because of that, my flying has also taking a hit. I'm certainly not paying to be a "member" Maybe one day I can join EAA. Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
From: "Glenn W. Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Which is another interesting chart of numbers ...the cost of airplanes, flying lessons, hangar costs, etc. over the same timeframe as the data presented in the chart in my previous post. Even considering inflation and economic conditions, it has become one expensive hobby! On Thu, August 23, 2007 10:39 am, RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com wrote: > For me, I haven't joined because of the cost. I can't afford to build > the plane I'm building, and because of that, my flying has also taking a > hit. I'm certainly not paying to be a "member" Maybe one day I can join > EAA. > Boyce > > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Scott, My advise, for what it is worth, is to relax, don't be in a hurry and ENJOY your flight. All too many students are up tight because flying is new to them and there is more to learn to become a good, safe pilot than they realized. Don't try to impress anyone with what a "natural" your are. You can't-----unless you crash and then they will have something to talk about. Learn to "Fly the plane, Fly the plane, Fly the plane" and don't overly worry about the instruments for now. You really need to know how to fly the plane without the instruments before you learn to fly with them. When the engine or instruments fail it will be up to the PILOT to fly the plane. With a good instructor it will all come in due time. Trying not to step on any toes, but in my opinon Leon's instructor was a horse's ass for putting a new student under the hood and do unusual attitude recovery in their 2nd hour. Unusual attitude recovery and the hood are both important but a lot of students are not comfortable flying for a goodly number of hours. All too many students quite flying before they get their License because of poor instructors. I hightly recommend students look for an instructor that instructs because he/she likes instructing, not because he/she is trying to build hours. Also, don't be afraid to "fire" an instructor if you feel your not getting your moneys worth. Again, take your time, relax and enjoy each flight. Not only will you learn much faster but you will be developing a love that will last a life time. Gene > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Took my first lesson this week
I agree with Gene here. It's not too thoughtful for the instructor to subject a student pilot to unusual attitudes so early! http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Boyce, Homebuilding is never ever because it's "cheaper" way to fly. It's always cheaper to join a good flying club, if flying is the only objective. Building an aircraft or boat or birdhouse or hotrod car, that's the hobby and reward, being able to fly your hobby is just a side benefit. Re: value of EAA, except for their lobbying efforts in Washington (sometimes questionable in effectiveness), the management of the EAA has sold out to the big aviation businesses and Wisconsin tourism. The money made at Oshcash each year is simply to support the EAA staff until the next year's event. There is only one good reason for the EAA and that's the local chapters. These internet based forums have done more for homebuilders in the last 10 years than the EAA has done since it's beginning. The EAA HQ paid staff rely on the good heartedness of volunteers to pull off the scam at Air Venture. Everything from parking to minimalist workshops is based on free help from volunteers. The EAA HQ staff would have to go out and get real jobs if they didn't have volunteers to help scam the annual parade of cash cows going to AirVenture to be milked. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
From: "Glenn W. Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
EXACTLY Gordon, Those are precisely my sentiments. Between this forum, Flitzer forum and a few local builders I get all I need to build a plane without an EAA membership. By not renewing when there is no good reason you are voting with your feet. I felt a little angry at OshKosh this year to find that volunteers get paid with sandwiches and that the water coming out of faucets in Camp Scholler was brown. Sure, camping was still fun, but I got a lot more out of Brodhead. I didn't want to get all negative but I guess I did anyway. Sorry for that guys. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Well said Gordon! Gene in Tennessee where it is too hot to fly or work in the shop.----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon Bowen To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Boyce, Homebuilding is never ever because it's "cheaper" way to fly. It's always cheaper to join a good flying club, if flying is the only objective. Building an aircraft or boat or birdhouse or hotrod car, that's the hobby and reward, being able to fly your hobby is just a side benefit. Re: value of EAA, except for their lobbying efforts in Washington (sometimes questionable in effectiveness), the management of the EAA has sold out to the big aviation businesses and Wisconsin tourism. The money made at Oshcash each year is simply to support the EAA staff until the next year's event. There is only one good reason for the EAA and that's the local chapters. These internet based forums have done more for homebuilders in the last 10 years than the EAA has done since it's beginning. The EAA HQ paid staff rely on the good heartedness of volunteers to pull off the scam at Air Venture. Everything from parking to minimalist workshops is based on free help from volunteers. The EAA HQ staff would have to go out and get real jobs if they didn't have volunteers to help scam the annual parade of cash cows going to AirVenture to be milked. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- title=http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000 000982 href="http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000 000982" target=_blank>AOL.com. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Are you sure its not the cost of aircraft that are slowing down the number of pilot increases? When we bought the Aeronca 7AC in 1955 it cost us $700 US and it didn't take long to save that much. I am not flying anything right now (until my Piet is done) because I don't have $25,000 to buy that same champ, or Taylorcraft, or... now; to say nothing of the cost of the new LSA's at +/-$100,000 US. Who are the new pilots now; Lawyers, doctors, etc? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: keeping the Piet
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Harvey, It's a decision I think you'll be happy you made. Enjoy! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: harvey.rule(at)bell.ca To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:17 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: keeping the Piet I have decided instead of selling the Piet and keeping the N3 Pup that I would reverse this decision and sell the N3 keeping the Piet since am having just too much fun flying the Piet (gn-1 aircamper).It means that I will still have to rent the hanger but at least I will have room for others to join me in that hanger to help cover the cost.I have up to 4hrs. on the Piet now and everything is running as advertised.I have been invited to join the Vintage Wings production at Rockliffe at the museum this weekend as a static display which is a real honour for me.I will be landing at Rockliffe this Sunday sometime around 8 to 830 if all goes well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 9:05 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Chapman" <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 23, 2007
I think, could be wrong, that what you're observing is what some of us are holding EAA accountable for. LSA was about making aircraft affordable again. As I watched this bit of rulemaking take shape it appeared the EAA was fostering it well. It wasn't until I saw the price tags on the offerings of the companies in that space which EAA supported and spotlighted that I realized someone was missing the reality check. At the latest Airventure, I was constantly cruising the area and feeling like I must be the only guy there wondering how in the world a price of $60-90k on a new Cub variation could be considered competitive. It's competitive only within the manufacturing circle and certainly not within the market. The reason that Cessna sold so many airplanes through the 60's was that the price fit within a certain percentage of the medium income. There is nothing on the market today certifiable as an airplane whose price falls within that median income target. In other words, I'm an average guy and I can't afford what is being represented as the average market. As the champions of LSA, EAA missed the mark as they supported the efforts behind these unrealistically priced machines. That's also what's wrong with Cessna's LSA. Most of the orders are from schools. Neither the schools nor the manufacturer have yet realized that they are wasting their money if they can't afford to sell an airplane to someone AFTER they get their license. In order to sustain reasonable prices and production, the craft have to become affordable for general ownership. Making that happen assures the schools that they'll have students in the future. Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com http://www.layer1wireless.com "Don't start with me or I'll replace you with a small and efficient script!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimboyer(at)hughes.net > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:55 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA > > > > Are you sure its not the cost of aircraft that are slowing down the > number of pilot increases? > When we bought the Aeronca 7AC in 1955 it cost us $700 US and it > didn't take long to save that much. I am not flying anything right now > (until my Piet is done) because I don't have $25,000 to buy that same > champ, or Taylorcraft, or... now; to say nothing of the cost of the new > LSA's at +/-$100,000 US. > Who are the new pilots now; Lawyers, doctors, etc? > Jim > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Glenn, Thanks for that interesting data set. It looks like starting from 1929 (the earliest year available) until the early 50s, there was an increase in the number of pilots existing per year. There was of course a spike at WWII and immediately afterwards, then a decline in the late 50s for some reason (possibly due to the introduction of new medical and equipment regs? I don't know.). Starting with 1960, there was a steady increase from about 360,000 to a high of 827,000 in 1980. Since 1980, there has been a somewhat steady decline to the current level of just under 600,000. I don't know how much decline can be attributed to anyone's failure because I see many possible causes whose impact on the numbers are beyond what I would expect an AOPA or EAA to be able to alter. Even just within the world of aviation (that is, beyond widespread societal pressures), there have been significant factors that may have caused some of the decline. For instance, as pilots trained during WWII and on the later GI Bill grow older, they fall out of the pilot population. This has been written about since at least the 70s and it has an enormous, predicted, and documented impact on pilot numbers. Also, I think it's likely that as airline travel became less expensive and permeated more markets, the need for small planes flown personally by businessmen or other who just want to go from Point A to Point B declined. The explosion of cheap and plentiful airline travel options started in the late 70s. The beginning of the decline in number of pilots followed soon afterwards. I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion. Another consideration is FAR part 103 "legalizing" ultralights was implemented by the FAA in 1982. Thus, for a whole segment of people truly interested only in low and slow and cheap flying, there was a new route to take to get into the air. It may be that if part 103 hadn't been implemented, a lot of these people would have been "forced" to become licensed pilots just so they could get into the air. Many who opted for the U/L route weren't or aren't FAA-licensed pilots, so they aren't included in the pilot numbers data. Thus, there may be additional tens of thousands of people who are pilots in all but name but aren't counted in this dataset. Again, I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion. Possibly these three factors contributed to the decline in numbers of licensed pilots, a decline that is even greater when measured against the general population growth over the same course of time. Of course, there's lots of other probable factors. For instance, the explosion of leisure activities that have occurred in the last few decades compete with flying as a hobby. Also, expendable "luxury" income for the middle class has declined in the last two decades (though the definition of this money has morphed, too). What I wonder is, what would this decline in pilot numbers look like if EAA, AOPA, GAMA, etc. did not exist or had not developed their various programs to encourage pilot starts and retentions? That is, have these programs had any effect? I suspect that they have, but I have no data on it. Jeff >The attached .pdf was shared with me at Brodhead. It shows a concerning >decline in new pilots over the last 20 years. Don't know what the >relationship to EAA is but it would appear that if their (EAA) cause is to >bring more people into aviation, they are failing. >Attachment converted: BoatG5:pilot statistics.pdf (PDF /IC) (00B3DCBE) -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Hello Group! I recently bought a C-140 to learn to fly while building my Pietenpol... I figure once I am done building (1 1/2 years and counting) the sale of my 140 will buy a nice Rotec Radial Engine for the Pietenpol!!!! Meanwhile......... I fly in the morning, and build in the afternoon! (also have 4 cars and 2 motorcycles in the hanger to get in the way) Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA Oh I'm serious, If I were to do things over, I would seriously consider buying a flying C-150. For what it will cost to finish the Mustang, and my personal obligations (that have changed since starting the Mustang) I could have bought a $18,000 C-150, (love the Pietenpol, but I will be tieing down outside)and be flying now. It would be roughly 10 years or more before reaching the break even point in expenses. But, it wouldn't be as fun! Boyce _____ <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> . ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nice cowl
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
I was just checking the Brodhead EAA 431 website to see if they had posted any photos of this year's gathering, and saw that they had not yet. But...they do have a couple of shots of Dennis Hall's newly re-engined Air camper (from Ford Model A to Continental 65). That's a nice looking cowl. Compound curves aren't so easy to do, but they sure look nice. Here's a link to see for yourself... http://www.eaa431.org/ Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Chapman" <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 23, 2007
This section carries a piece of information often glossed-over in modern study: " Also, I think it's likely that as airline travel became less expensive and permeated more markets, the need for small planes flown personally by businessmen or other who just want to go from Point A to Point B declined. The explosion of cheap and plentiful airline travel options started in the late 70s. The beginning of the decline in number of pilots followed soon afterwards. I can't prove causation; it's just an observation and opinion." There was a period which lasted until the 1980's in which airlines hired almost exclusively from the ex-military pilot population. After deregulation and the downsizing of the U.S. military, the pool of applicants shrank. The Aviation Revitalization Act came about because of the perception that the pilot pool would shrink to a critical level and the realization that new pilots would have to come from some new source. GA was recognized as that source of experience. Now that aviation careers are compensated at new lows for the industry, training is more expensive than ever, aircraft themselves are horrendously priced and on and on, I find it very difficult to believe anyone would (and definitely I would question the judgment of anyone who does) find it reasonable to invest $60-$70k in an education which will pay less than $30k annually for the first 3-5 years and offer no stability or appreciable compensation improvement for many years beyond that. All that said, my base assertion is that EAA and AOPA have missed the mark in guiding the industry and all forms of aviation will face significant problems until ownership is more affordable. For commercial aviation, the experienced pilot pool has to come from someplace and GA will not be able to generate the supply if no one can afford to even fly GA equipment. Greg Chapman http://www.mousetrax.com http://www.layer1wireless.com "Don't start with me or I'll replace you with a small and efficient script!" > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:32 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Value of EAA > > > > Glenn, > > Thanks for that interesting data set. It looks > like starting from 1929 (the earliest year > available) until the early 50s, there was an > increase in the number of pilots existing per > year. There was of course a spike at WWII and > immediately afterwards, then a decline in the > late 50s for some reason (possibly due to the > introduction of new medical and equipment regs? I > don't know.). Starting with 1960, there was a > steady increase from about 360,000 to a high of > 827,000 in 1980. Since 1980, there has been a > somewhat steady decline to the current level of > just under 600,000. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Gene, Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG"http://www.c pc- world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late if you are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna mounted on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK. The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My handheld mounts at my right hand (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg). As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away with the need!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c om/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com 22/08/2007 6:51 PM 22/08/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 23, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Engines for sale........
Members of the list: As many of you may know, I am one of the few builders creating a "Wide Body" Pietenpol ( hey you other guys...we need to create a neat "wide body" Logo to identify our planes) with plans of using a Continental A-65. There has been a change in plans! Keep reading..... I am going to install a c-85 or C-90 in my "wide body" as I deemed it necessary if I am going to gain any altitude....So here is the deal for fellow builders... I have an A-65 Continental for sale, complete, flange shaft, no logs, need rebuild....and I have another hanger mate who has a Continental C-75 for sale with 30 hours on rebuild. It has a log book, complete engine removed from a Zenair for more HP, less carb. He has adapted on the front of the engine a starter and generator which can be unbolted and removed. Please call me for more information and interest in these very "reasonably priced" engines! This would be a good deal for any Pieter seeking an engine for their project! Ken Heide Fargo, ND 218-486-1963 Home 701-793-3030 Cell --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 23, 2007
Gene, When I bought Felix the GN-1 it had a rubber duckie mounted on the side of the fuze between pits. It worked ok but not great. I used an idea from an old Kitplanes. It is 2 pieces of formica 1" X 23" glued together with a strip of copper tape in the middle then held together with heat shrink or tape. There is a wire soldered to the copper at one end that sticks out like a pigtail. The ground plane is 3 pieces of alum gutter stock 1" X 23". The 4 pieces are spread out like a fork and mounted in the fuze floor and sides behind the pilot seat. I also use the ground plane for the ELT. The radio works allot better than with the duck. The radio is an Icom hard wired to a motor cycle battery, which I charge every 6 months or so. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 23, 2007
This is how I do it. I have a 35 ft . piece of 3/16" nylon rope. Nothing else. No gadgets, hooks, or mechanical releases. I run the rope under one side of the tail wheel steering arm, then around a post, then back under the other tail wheel arm and bring both ends up to the right rear cabane ( one end around the cabane) and tie the two ends together shoe lace bow fashion and position the knot along side the cockpit. Then I nudge the plane forward until the line is tight. I give it one more push to make sure the knot will not untie. Then I prime the Cont. A-65, flip the mag switch and start the engine with throttle at full idle. The engine runs at about 550 rpm. I crawl in, buckle up,check oil pressure, and when ready, untie the "shoe lace" by pulling on one of the loose ends, coil the line up and stow it in my cockpit. Simple as you can make it. Works for me! Roman Bukolt NX20795 BTW I believe Bill Rewey and Lowell Frank also do it this same way. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tailwheel steering arm question
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Douwe, See my setup (attached) Hans -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 8:52 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel steering arm question Guys (and gals?) ? Just finished building a tailwheel, and am scratching my head about what length to make the steering arms.? How long are yours? ? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Gene, Too hot in Texas also, plus?frequent rain and thunderstorms make it a Humid place. The other day at 2000 feet it was still hot, unreal feeling, like flying in?a oven. Still manage to Fly at least once a week (need my fix) I use a ICOM A6 with rubber duckie, Headset and a PTT on?the stick. I fabricated a bracket on the top RH?longeron, and use the ICOM belt clip for mounting and easy removal See attached file. I get a good 4 to 5 mile transmitting range and 20 receiving. No tailhook release, Corvair with electric start. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 3:31 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago.? While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next.? Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held.? Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna.? Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld?? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit)? Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna.? If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release.? With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in.? With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance!? What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put.? I just?raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave.? I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit.? Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet.? Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down.? I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash.? It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time.? Better get back to the Honey dooos as?THE wife will be getting home soon.? Gene?? in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: braze or weld
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com>
Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should all joints be welded? How did you do yours? Thank you. Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: braze or weld
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Dan, Common practice is to weld 4130, brazing is limited to mild steel. You may hear dissenting comments. Good quality welds give good peace of mind...... Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > > > Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the > various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts > together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should > all joints be welded? > > How did you do yours? > > Thank you. > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: braze or weld
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Brazing is VERY strong when done correctly. I think it is just easier than welding so BP made the parts he could that way. Nothing wrong with it. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Loegering Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should all joints be welded? How did you do yours? Thank you. Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Winter <twinter1(at)unl.edu>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Boyce, Buy a flying C150? That's what I did. But everything costs something: having my own plane to fly sure slows down the project progress. But I'm flying. Now my main building motorvator (deliberate sp.) is to eventually pay less: when my Piet is real, rather than mostly just the sparkle in its daddy's eyes, I will do my own work on it, just like on my cars. Owning even the little Cessna costs like buying a pretty good used car every year: hangar rent, annual, and insurance make it a wallet-siphon just dripping oil on the hangar floor. And I can't legally lay a wrench on it. Oh, I can air up the tires and change oil. As for EAA, the beating heart of it is in the local chapters. Great pilot support group. I would not be a pilot if I hadn't joined the Lincoln, NE chapter. Tom ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Tom, you're right. It's just frustrating though seeing the costs involved, and knowing every year it's going to get tougher! But, I'm sticking with my Mustang project. I'll finish it, and after a few years probably sell it, and start a Piet or a flybaby. Boyce http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: braze or weld
Date: Aug 24, 2007
BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require later heat treatment. Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 6:47 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > Dan, > > Common practice is to weld 4130, brazing is limited to mild steel. > You may hear dissenting comments. > Good quality welds give good peace of mind...... > > Greg Cardinal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Loegering" <danl(at)odayequipment.com> > To: > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:25 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > > > > > > > > > > > > Starting in on the metal parts for the controls. Have a question on the > > various call outs on the plans. Some areas call out brazing the parts > > together (elevator belcrank, etc...). Is brazing adequate here or should > > all joints be welded? > > > > How did you do yours? > > > > Thank you. > > > > Dan Loegering > > Fargo, ND > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: braze or weld
Date: Aug 24, 2007
> > BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing > alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. > 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many > cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. > 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require > later heat treatment. I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts when I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all brazed, even 4130. Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will ever see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other "bits" used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: braze or weld
Date: Aug 24, 2007
For those of you brazing instead of welding, you may want to ck with an AP mechanic, EAA tech advisor or the FAA's acceptable practices book. I think I remember reading somewhere why it's not allowed, maybe it had to do with vibration?. It may be OK and argueable but in the end, you'll have to have an FAA inspector or DAR inspect your plane before you can get the airworthiness cert., and unless this guy thinks brazing is OK and allowed, the arguement of whether a brazed part is just as strong as a welded part is moot. These DAR's are not rocket scientists, mostly they come from a background of guys who have put together a kit plane like Van's and/or a retire commerical airline pilot who's built a Lancair, and unless they've seen this practice of brazing spam cans or kit projects before and know it's ok, they're gonna squawk. Damn few DAR's come from a background of actually building a plans from scratch airplane so they're real picky. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld > <Panzera@Experimental-Aviation.com> > > >> >> BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing >> alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. >> 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many >> cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. >> 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require >> later heat treatment. > > I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts > when > I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all > brazed, > even 4130. > > Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will > ever > see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other > "bits" > used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be > subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. > > Pat > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glass" <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: braze or weld and guilt
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Just to add my 2 cents. I have noticed references to brazing on the plans and wondered if it was OK still to do that. One of my other builds I want to do is a Lotus 7 car replica. The original space frame chassis were brazed. The new ones are robot welded. Richard Finch states in his book that brazing is as strong as the base metal. I have always liked the way brazing flows in and fillets joints for a neater appearance with less heat. Somehow I never felt is was as strong as a good weld. He also states that if you ever braze you can never go back and weld in that spot because of the brazing rod flowing into the pores of the metal. Has anybody else brazed their metal Piet parts. Do you feel guilty doing it? Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: braze or weld
Pat et al, I wondered about the same thing until I did some research. 4130 is only one of several alloys that is called "chromoly" or "Cro-Mo". These alloys are called that because, in addition to iron, the alloys have a high percentage of chromium and molybdenum, with a relatively small amount of carbon. 4130, specifically, was developed for welding by Oxy-Acetylene torches. It has a relatively low carbon percentage, compared to high carbon steels, achieving its strength through the alloying properties of the other constituents, and does not require heat treating after welding to attain near pre-welded strength. Many bicycle frames have been made, typically brazed, from tubing that has been called chormoly but probably should not be. Some lower-quality bikes have been built out of 4130, even brazed, but have been built quite heavy in order to achieve their required strength. Most bicycle frames that are brazed are made from tubing that has a much lower percentage of chromium and a much higher percentage of manganese than in 4130. Brazed bicycle frames also typically use lugs at each joint to considerably increase the amount of brazed area at each joint. It takes a lot of training and practice to become a fully competent frame builder. One extremely popular tubing is Reynolds 531 which has about the same carbon content of 4130 but a much lower chromium content and about three times the manganese. 531 is more properly nicknamed "Mn-Mo" and is much more brazable than 4130. It has been reported on this list that brazing 4130 can produce microscopic cracks in the 4130 near the braze metal. This is likely due to the high chromium content compared to alloys designed to be brazed. For the TYPICAL home craftsman, it is most adviseable to weld 4130. The skill to weld a good joint is relatively easy to acquire and the welded joint will be easily inspected. Brazing can be strong, but the techniques to get a good brazed joint are a little obscure. If you absolutely have to have a brazed joint, use a tubing alloy more amenable to brazing. Mike Hardaway ---- Patrick Panzera <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com> wrote: > > > > > > BHP didn't have access to 4130, which is now the standard aircraft tubing > > alloy. Brazing was very strong for the mild steel tubes he could get. > > 4130 is stronger than BHP's tubing, but it does not braze well. In many > > cases, 4130 is actually weakened by brazing, even if done very well. > > 4130 is ideal for welding by the home craftsman since it does not require > > later heat treatment. > > I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts when > I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all brazed, > even 4130. > > Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will ever > see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other "bits" > used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be > subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. > > Pat > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 24, 2007
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: braze or weld
---- Patrick Panzera <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com> wrote: > > I've often wondered about the prejudice against brazing aircraft parts when > I know that for many decades bicycle and motorcycle frames were all brazed, > even 4130. > > Maybe an engine mount might see stresses way higher than a bicycle will ever > see, but I doubt a stick or bellcrank or just about any of the other "bits" > used on light aircraft can take the forces that a bottom bracket would be > subjected to by a 175 lb triathlete stomping up a steep hill. > As an aside on relative stresses and an illustration of what Pat is talking about, I have fatigued and broken six very-high-quality bike frames, five of which were brazed. Only two of the failures were at the bottom bracket, though. I have never broken an airplane part made of welded 4130. I have never flown an airplane part made of brazed anything, as far as I know. When I have broken my bikes, I have always been able to limp home. A failed control system in an airplane would be somewhat more problematic. Mike Hardaway ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: braze or weld and guilt
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I was in the end process of building my control parts as per the plans years ago when this "no brazing" string came up. being a perfectionist I had a couple of weeks worth of work in my control parts at the time. I did a lot of research in an effort to confirm the claim. I check with the welding instructor at the tech center where I work who traines world champion VICA welding competitors, I borrowed and researched welding textbooks, I bought and checked out several welding manuals, I read 43-13 and finally I bought and read the book written by Mr. finch where this string was supposed to origionate from. The only place that I found anything on the subject was about two sentenses in Mr. Finche's book which said that when 4130 steel is brazed the grain of the steel expands letting brass enter the voids between the grain, when the 4130 cools the brass hardens first and does not let the steel contract to it's origional state causing the steel to potentially split along the grain lines. Sounds like one very experinenced welders opinion to me. I heard from several builders who said they had brazed their 4130 as per the plans and had been flying with them for many years. I have since remade some of the more critical parts and welded them but some of the small but labor intesive parts like the control tube bushings which would require additional weeks of work to remake the whole control tube will be flying with me. Bottom line is if you haven't made the part yet I would weld the 4130 rather than braze it. If it is a critical part like the bellcrank, It's not that big of a deal to make a new one. Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Glass<mailto:redsglass(at)hotmail.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld and guilt > Just to add my 2 cents. I have noticed references to brazing on the plans and wondered if it was OK still to do that. One of my other builds I want to do is a Lotus 7 car replica. The original space frame chassis were brazed. The new ones are robot welded. Richard Finch states in his book that brazing is as strong as the base metal. I have always liked the way brazing flows in and fillets joints for a neater appearance with less heat. Somehow I never felt is was as strong as a good weld. He also states that if you ever braze you can never go back and weld in that spot because of the brazing rod flowing into the pores of the metal. Has anybody else brazed their metal Piet parts. Do you feel guilty doing it? Steve in Maine _________________________________________________________________ See what you're getting into.before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_05 07<http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview _0507> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Hans, thanks for the reply. How do you overcome the wind noise in your mic? I think it's really unkind of you corvair guys to talk about electric start. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Peter, thanks for the info. The photo of the handheld will help a lot but I couldn't get the page for the antenna to come up. An electric start would help. Thanks again Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Gene, Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late if you are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna mounted on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK. The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My handheld mounts at my right hand (http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg). As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away with the need!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM 22/08/2007 6:51 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Skip, I'm trying to work out just how I would make the "fork". It sounds like a really good idea. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 24, 2007
Roman, I'm trying your "rope trick" in the morning. Once you have it in the cockpit, where do you stow it while your flying? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Roman Bukolt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release This is how I do it. I have a 35 ft . piece of 3/16" nylon rope. Nothing else. No gadgets, hooks, or mechanical releases. I run the rope under one side of the tail wheel steering arm, then around a post, then back under the other tail wheel arm and bring both ends up to the right rear cabane ( one end around the cabane) and tie the two ends together shoe lace bow fashion and position the knot along side the cockpit. Then I nudge the plane forward until the line is tight. I give it one more push to make sure the knot will not untie. Then I prime the Cont. A-65, flip the mag switch and start the engine with throttle at full idle. The engine runs at about 550 rpm. I crawl in, buckle up,check oil pressure, and when ready, untie the "shoe lace" by pulling on one of the loose ends, coil the line up and stow it in my cockpit. Simple as you can make it. Works for me! Roman Bukolt NX20795 BTW I believe Bill Rewey and Lowell Frank also do it this same way. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/22/2007 6:51 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Engines for sale........
Date: Aug 24, 2007
I would be interested please send photos and any other information you have. I do thank you for your time. Chet Hartley Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: Pietenpol Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engines for sale........ Members of the list: As many of you may know, I am one of the few builders creating a "Wide Body" Pietenpol ( hey you other guys...we need to create a neat "wide body" Logo to identify our planes) with plans of using a Continental A-65. There has been a change in plans! Keep reading..... I am going to install a c-85 or C-90 in my "wide body" as I deemed it necessary if I am going to gain any altitude....So here is the deal for fellow builders... I have an A-65 Continental for sale, complete, flange shaft, no logs, need rebuild....and I have another hanger mate who has a Continental C-75 for sale with 30 hours on rebuild. It has a log book, complete engine removed from a Zenair for more HP, less carb. He has adapted on the front of the engine a starter and generator which can be unbolted and removed. Please call me for more information and interest in these very "reasonably priced" engines! This would be a good deal for any Pieter seeking an engine for their project! Ken Heide Fargo, ND 218-486-1963 Home 701-793-3030 Cell ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Ready for the edge of your seat? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 25, 2007
Gene, Sorry, wrong URL, should be HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0213_JPG.jpg Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 7:52 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Peter, thanks for the info. The photo of the handheld will help a lot but I couldn't get the page for the antenna to come up. An electric start would help. Thanks again Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au"Peter W Johnson "mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Gene, Re the radio antenna, I put mine behind the pilot=92s seat (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG"http://www.c pc- world.com/new_card_images/pages/IMG_0213_JPG). I know it=92s a bit late if you are already flying but it works well. I have seen a similar antenna mounted on the outside of the fuse on a Corby Starlet that looked OK. The only problem I have with the radio is wind noise in the mike. My handheld mounts at my right hand (HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg"http:// www .cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0394_JPG.jpg). As for the tail hook, well an electric start on the Corvair does away with the need!!!! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Pieters, It's too hot (106) to fly or work in the hanger or shop so I'm hanging around (inside) the house doing the things I should have gotten done a long time ago. While doing those honey-dooos I was thinking about my Piet and what needs to be done next. Corky sent me a new set of eyebrows that I need to finish up and paint and I guess the next item I need to take care of is my radio. I'm not having much luck getting out on the old hand held. Not sure if it's because I have it laying down next to my seat or because I'm using a rubber duckie antenna. Where do the rest of you find to be the best place to keep your handheld? (I'm 200 lbs and take up most of the cockpit) Are you using the rubber duckie or do you have a permanent antenna. If so, where? Another item I'm going to have to come up with is a tail hook release. With my old prop I could start the engine and at idle remove my chock and the Piet would stay put while I got in. With the new prop (74 X 38) not a chance! What I've had to do so far is place small wedges of wood under each wheel so that after I remove the Chock the plane will stay put. I just raise the RPM a bit and roll over the wedges when I want to leave. I'm not happy doing it that way and would rather come up with a tail hook release I can control from the cockpit. Anyone have any ideas? Here's an observation I'd like to pass on to any tall person that is building a Piet. Make your dash slanted rather than straight up and down. I'm tall (6') and I'm not able to easly see the gages on my dash. It would be so much easier if the dash was slanted. Just noticed the time. Better get back to the Honey dooos as THE wife will be getting home soon. Gene in HOT Tennessee (poor ol fat boy from Alaska doesn't do well in the heat) N502R Date: 22/08/2007 6:51 PM 22/08/2007 6:51 PM href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ Date: 8/22/2007 6:51 PM 24/08/2007 2:59 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 25, 2007
Thanks Peter. It's too late for me to do as you did but it did give me some ideas. Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/23/2007 4:04 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: braze or weld and guilt
Date: Aug 25, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Good post, Ed. It's nice to see someone actually give factual data and a real reason for not brazing 4130. In addition, I would add that welding 4130 is pretty easy and there is no particular reason to braze when it is so easy to weld. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: braze or weld and guilt I was in the end process of building my control parts as per the plans years ago when this "no brazing" string came up. being a perfectionist I had a couple of weeks worth of work in my control parts at the time. I did a lot of research in an effort to confirm the claim. I check with the welding instructor at the tech center where I work who traines world champion VICA welding competitors, I borrowed and researched welding textbooks, I bought and checked out several welding manuals, I read 43-13 and finally I bought and read the book written by Mr. finch where this string was supposed to origionate from. The only place that I found anything on the subject was about two sentenses in Mr. Finche's book which said that when 4130 steel is brazed the grain of the steel expands letting brass enter the voids between the grain, when the 4130 cools the brass hardens first and does not let the steel contract to it's origional state causing the steel to potentially split along the grain lines. Sounds like one very experinenced welders opinion to me. I heard from several builders who said they had brazed their 4130 as per the plans and had been flying with them for many years. I have since remade some of the more critical parts and welded them but some of the small but labor intesive parts like the control tube bushings which would require additional weeks of work to remake the whole control tube will be flying with me. Bottom line is if you haven't made the part yet I would weld the 4130 rather than braze it. If it is a critical part like the bellcrank, It's not that big of a deal to make a new one. Ed G. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
From: "rmueller23" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Aug 25, 2007
Greg, I think you are spot on with your commentary on the cost of the LSA's being completely at odds with the idea that they will make aircraft ownership affordable. A quick, unscientfic survey of prices of Cubs, Champs, and 140s on Barnstormers revealed prices between $20k and $30k (except for one gentleman trying to get $46k for an 85hp J-3.....ridiculous). A new 7EC Champ from the factory is priced at $89k, new Cub variants anywhere from $92k to $120k, and the new Cessna 162 is supposed to be in the $100k range. I cannot fathom plunking down those large amounts of money for an aircraft that will provide me with the same functionality as a used original for 1/4 of the cost. One of the goals of LSA was to get more people into flying, and aircraft ownership. So, as LSA was being developed, with the cost of used light aircraft in the $15k to $25k range, it was deemed that the cost of learning to fly and own your own light aircraft was too great. In order to fix that we are going to slightly decrease the cost of learning to fly with the Sport Pilot license, and then have market demand increase the cost of used LSA's by $10k and fill the market with new LSA's that cost four times more than what was not affordable before? I don't get it. But, that may jive with what the brain trust in charge of EAA wants. Why try to attract a membership base that can only afford to fly a Piet, or an old Champ, or a 140. How in the world will those people also be able to afford a John Deere lawn tractor, a Gator, and a new Ford Mustang? In addition, I could definitely forsee a replay of the post-war aircraft manufacturing bust with the new LSA market when the demand for these expensive new light aircraft does not meet the supply. I sincerely hope that is not the case, but I'm not holding out much hope. Ah well, enough of a rant for now. My wife and I ordered Pietenpol plans, and they arrived this past Wednesday! Time to get started. Have a good weekend everyone, Ryan I think, could be wrong, that what you're observing is what some of us are holding EAA accountable for. LSA was about making aircraft affordable again. As I watched this bit of rulemaking take shape it appeared the EAA was fostering it well. It wasn't until I saw the price tags on the offerings of the companies in that space which EAA supported and spotlighted that I realized someone was missing the reality check. At the latest Airventure, I was constantly cruising the area and feeling like I must be the only guy there wondering how in the world a price of $60-90k on a new Cub variation could be considered competitive. It's competitive only within the manufacturing circle and certainly not within the market. The reason that Cessna sold so many airplanes through the 60's was that the price fit within a certain percentage of the medium income. There is nothing on the market today certifiable as an airplane whose price falls within that median income target. In other words, I'm an average guy and I can't afford what is being represented as the average market. As the champions of LSA, EAA missed the mark as they supported the efforts behind these unrealistically priced machines. That's also what's wrong with Cessna's LSA. Most of the orders are from schools. Neither the schools nor the manufacturer have yet realized that they are wasting their money if they can't afford to sell an airplane to someone AFTER they get their license. In order to sustain reasonable prices and production, the craft have to become affordable for general ownership. Making that happen assures the schools that they'll have students in the future. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130958#130958 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 25, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
I agree with what you have said about the LSA market. Another interesting side effect of Sport Pilot is it's effect on the ultralight market (which is the most affordable way to fly). The ultralight area at AirVenture was like a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. I guess most people that want to buy a two place aircraft want a 'real' looking airplane rather than an 'ultralight' looking airplane. But ultralights are still the most affordable way to go, you just have to get a Sport Pilot license now, or if you have a revoked medical go part 103. Rick On 8/25/07, rmueller23 wrote: > > > Greg, I think you are spot on with your commentary on the cost of the > LSA's being completely at odds with the idea that they will make aircraft > ownership affordable. > > A quick, unscientfic survey of prices of Cubs, Champs, and 140s on > Barnstormers revealed prices between $20k and $30k (except for one gentleman > trying to get $46k for an 85hp J-3.....ridiculous). A new 7EC Champ from the > factory is priced at $89k, new Cub variants anywhere from $92k to $120k, and > the new Cessna 162 is supposed to be in the $100k range. I cannot fathom > plunking down those large amounts of money for an aircraft that will provide > me with the same functionality as a used original for 1/4 of the cost. > > One of the goals of LSA was to get more people into flying, and aircraft > ownership. So, as LSA was being developed, with the cost of used light > aircraft in the $15k to $25k range, it was deemed that the cost of learning > to fly and own your own light aircraft was too great. In order to fix that > we are going to slightly decrease the cost of learning to fly with the Sport > Pilot license, and then have market demand increase the cost of used LSA's > by $10k and fill the market with new LSA's that cost four times more than > what was not affordable before? I don't get it. > > But, that may jive with what the brain trust in charge of EAA wants. Why > try to attract a membership base that can only afford to fly a Piet, or an > old Champ, or a 140. How in the world will those people also be able to > afford a John Deere lawn tractor, a Gator, and a new Ford Mustang? > > In addition, I could definitely forsee a replay of the post-war aircraft > manufacturing bust with the new LSA market when the demand for these > expensive new light aircraft does not meet the supply. I sincerely hope that > is not the case, but I'm not holding out much hope. > > Ah well, enough of a rant for now. My wife and I ordered Pietenpol plans, > and they arrived this past Wednesday! Time to get started. Have a good > weekend everyone, > > Ryan -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 25, 2007
Gene, These may help. The picture is looking aft through the hole in the back of the pilot seat, this is a GN-1 so the control linkage is different from a Pietenpol. I had to work in the space back there so my "fork" is not exactly like the drawing, but it is the same electrically. The dark branch is the antenna and the gold colored are the ground plane. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy Sent: 8/24/2007 7:39:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio and tail hook release Skip, I'm trying to work out just how I would make the "fork". It sounds like a really good idea. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 26, 2007
The ultralight community was sold out by the manufacturers who created the ASTM standard for the new SLSA's and LSAs. It's the same old story, create a cheap way to fly, there is a storm of takers, and then promise them that the 'old boys club' will allow them into the fold with a new Sport Pilot license. Then raise the prices to kill the industry.the real intent. Perhaps the FAA could have just dropped the medical requirement for the Private License and added weight Shift and PPC as new aircraft types..? There is too much confusion by CFIs. can I instruct in a C-140 or a T-Craft and give someone a Sport Pilot license, what do I need to be qualified? Duh, read the FARs. On the UL side getting a good trike or a PPC went from $10-15K complete before SP, to $50-100,000 for an S-LSA after. Follow the money.! I hear single place Part 103 trike orders are up at some of the US manufacturers. My bet is it is better to have a Private License and fly a Pietenpol that is certified for under 1320 lbs gross weight, and later let the medical expire and use the privileges of a Sport Pilot to fly it! You know go have some flying fun! Forget about all this Sport Pilot confusion. RS -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Value of EAA I agree with what you have said about the LSA market. Another interesting side effect of Sport Pilot is it's effect on the ultralight market (which is the most affordable way to fly). The ultralight area at AirVenture was like a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. I guess most people that want to buy a two place aircraft want a 'real' looking airplane rather than an 'ultralight' looking airplane. But ultralights are still the most affordable way to go, you just have to get a Sport Pilot license now, or if you have a revoked medical go part 103. Rick On 8/25/07, rmueller23 wrote: Greg, I think you are spot on with your commentary on the cost of the LSA's being completely at odds with the idea that they will make aircraft ownership affordable. A quick, unscientfic survey of prices of Cubs, Champs, and 140s on Barnstormers revealed prices between $20k and $30k (except for one gentleman trying to get $46k for an 85hp J-3.....ridiculous). A new 7EC Champ from the factory is priced at $89k, new Cub variants anywhere from $92k to $120k, and the new Cessna 162 is supposed to be in the $100k range. I cannot fathom plunking down those large amounts of money for an aircraft that will provide me with the same functionality as a used original for 1/4 of the cost. One of the goals of LSA was to get more people into flying, and aircraft ownership. So, as LSA was being developed, with the cost of used light aircraft in the $15k to $25k range, it was deemed that the cost of learning to fly and own your own light aircraft was too great. In order to fix that we are going to slightly decrease the cost of learning to fly with the Sport Pilot license, and then have market demand increase the cost of used LSA's by $10k and fill the market with new LSA's that cost four times more than what was not affordable before? I don't get it. But, that may jive with what the brain trust in charge of EAA wants. Why try to attract a membership base that can only afford to fly a Piet, or an old Champ, or a 140. How in the world will those people also be able to afford a John Deere lawn tractor, a Gator, and a new Ford Mustang? In addition, I could definitely forsee a replay of the post-war aircraft manufacturing bust with the new LSA market when the demand for these expensive new light aircraft does not meet the supply. I sincerely hope that is not the case, but I'm not holding out much hope. Ah well, enough of a rant for now. My wife and I ordered Pietenpol plans, and they arrived this past Wednesday! Time to get started. Have a good weekend everyone, Ryan -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2007
From: Ron Franck <franck(at)geneseo.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> (Snip) The ultralight area at AirVenture was like a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. (Snip) Rick The ultralight area has been in a steady decline for years. I mentioned this to EAA's Timm Bogenhagen a year ago and he didn't believe me. I don't think Timm was around EAA in the 80's when ultralights commanded their own, separate convention at Oshkosh. Those conventions were great for the ultralight community, but I don't think they generated in enough money for EAA to justify the continued support of a separate convention. In it's campaign for low cost flying, EAA has changed it's focus to L$A. The enthusiasm that it now expresses for L$A is the same enthusiasm I saw expressed 20+ years ago for ultralights. The truth is EAA realized the "mistake" made with ultralights was a lack of vehicle and pilot registration. $port Pilot and L$A have remedied that situation by requiring mandatory training and licensing of pilots and of aircraft inspection and registration. Prior to all the $port Pilot/L$A brew ha ha I was hopeful that someday Part 103 regs would allow for some changes to increase weight, speed and fuel capacity that reflects real-world flying, but, in my humble opinion, it became the sacrificial lamb offered up on the alter of negotiations when EAA was working out $port Pilot and L$A with the Feds. Ultralights have become the unwanted, red-headed stepchild that EAA no longer wants. (imho) As for the continued decline of EAA's membership numbers, it's not surprising. Those "wind in their hair" types are riding Harleys rather than going through the monetary hassles of flying. I saw the handwriting on the wall when EAA opened up the convention'$ flight line to the general public. Well, that's enough ranting for now. I've got an appointment with my fortune teller to see if there is a very light jet in my future.......... Ron Franck ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HVandervoo(at)aol.com
Date: Aug 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Gene, My head set is a David Clark H10-20. A large wind screen keeps most of the wind away. Most transmissions seem to be received OK, so I assume there is little or no problem. I apologize if my electric start option on my Corvair engine offended you ;-) Hans http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio and tail hook release
Date: Aug 26, 2007
Boy oh boy, you just have to rub it in, don't you Hans. :) Gene . I apologize if my electric start option on my Corvair engine offended you ;-) Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 8/25/2007 5:00 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: A Good Weekend.
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Hi Guys, Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps. I have installed a new (10/10) nitrided, balanced crank, balanced rods and all new seals etc. I even installed new lifters rather than drain the existing ones. According to my engine shop mechanic the wrist pins were nearly seizing in the pistons due to the heat. The near seizure of No 5 wrist pin caused the con rod big end bearing to slip, hence the rather loud noises coming from the engine. His thoughts were that the wrist pin wasn't getting enough oil so he drilled two holes in each piston so that the oil had a better path to the bearing service. (See http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/Piston.jpg). It certainly seems to have worked. The engine ground runs showed the oil temp and cht were all normal and the pressure was good. I have a slight oil leak from the rear case I think and I will get that sorted in the next day or so. I went for a quick flight to see if all was well and, apart from the landing, everything was great. Seems I know have a Pietenpol that I can fly without having to worry about high temps. Chewing the cud with one of our local crop duster pilots later in the day, I suggested that he take the Piet for a fly and see if the landings are my lack of ability or something to do with the undercarriage geometry. A quick explanation of the cockpit layout and after levering the guy in the seat (he's bigger than me) off he went. An hour later and nearly dark, back he comes with a big grin over his face. Seems like the Piet is fine and I have to do some more landing practice. A very good feeling indeed. I'm still grinning. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com 5:00 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2007
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Weekend.
Peter, I want to thank you for your wonderful building pictures-- lots of details, and good size on many of them. I just spent a couple of hours pulling them up and looking at all the details and text. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Peter W Johnson <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> >Sent: Aug 26, 2007 5:18 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend. > > >Hi Guys, > >Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of >the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps. > >I have installed a new (10/10) nitrided, balanced crank, balanced rods and >all new seals etc. I even installed new lifters rather than drain the >existing ones. According to my engine shop mechanic the wrist pins were >nearly seizing in the pistons due to the heat. The near seizure of No 5 >wrist pin caused the con rod big end bearing to slip, hence the rather loud >noises coming from the engine. His thoughts were that the wrist pin wasn't >getting enough oil so he drilled two holes in each piston so that the oil >had a better path to the bearing service. (See >http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/Piston.jpg). It certainly >seems to have worked. > >The engine ground runs showed the oil temp and cht were all normal and the >pressure was good. I have a slight oil leak from the rear case I think and I >will get that sorted in the next day or so. > >I went for a quick flight to see if all was well and, apart from the >landing, everything was great. Seems I know have a Pietenpol that I can fly >without having to worry about high temps. > >Chewing the cud with one of our local crop duster pilots later in the day, I >suggested that he take the Piet for a fly and see if the landings are my >lack of ability or something to do with the undercarriage geometry. > >A quick explanation of the cockpit layout and after levering the guy in the >seat (he's bigger than me) off he went. An hour later and nearly dark, back >he comes with a big grin over his face. Seems like the Piet is fine and I >have to do some more landing practice. A very good feeling indeed. > >I'm still grinning. > >Cheers > >Peter >Wonthaggi Australia >http://www.cpc-world.com > > >5:00 PM > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 26, 2007
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: A Good Weekend.
What were the oil pressures before you spun the bearing? I also spun a bearing early on. My pressure was running ok at flight speeds but dropping to 15 lbs at idle. I was battling with high oil temps untill I spun the bearing. After I rebuilt the engine, I put a stronger spring in to raise the oil pressure. Using the same oil cooling system...my oil temps were much lower. When the bearing started to fail the oil temp went over 300 degrees. That was my only indication that something was going wrong. Even on the ground the engine sounded normal with a spun rod bearing. My conclusion.....When an rod bearing starts getting too much clearance in it from lack of oil and excessive wear, it starts heating oil tremendously from the extra friction between the crank and rod beariing, sending the oil temp upwards. A spun bearing because of high oil temp? make sure you have enough oil pressure..... Del Peter W Johnson wrote: Hi Guys, Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: LSA and affordable flying
Date: Aug 26, 2007
I'm going to relate my story here for the benefit of those who might be on the fence. I was 5+ years in building my first homebuilt, a single-place, VW powered high-winger called the M-19 "Flying Squirrel". I realized my flying skills were going by the wayside as my project dragged on and I was looking up at airplanes flying by a whole lot more than I was actually flying. I was also a few years away from completing the Squirrel. I needed to fly and nothing seemed affordable. I got very interested in the Pietenpol for its simplicity, 2-place capability, proven design, excellent support, and long history. Starting a second project was out of the question; that would just put flying further out of reach. One day a newly-completed Piet became available, test hours flown off, but took my breath away with a $15,000 price tag. Time to think about things. 1. There is no other complete, new, 2-place, flying aircraft that I want to fly that is available for that price. 2. Neither of the two cars in my garage (one is 8 years old, one is not even 2) cost that little. 3. Our son owns an offshore fishing boat, twin outboard, that cost more than twice that. 4. Pick up any aviation magazine and look for airplanes that can be built and flown for anything less. Not ultralights; REAL aircraft, honest 2-place aircraft. 5. See (1.) above. Write a couple of checks to Corky and let's go flying. The point is that you're not going to get into the air in anything as sturdy, as clean, as fun, as honest as a Pietenpol for anything near the cost of one so why go looking. Look at the EAA "Wood Book" and read the piece that is titled something like, "Why Not Build a Wooden Airplane?" by Tony Bingelis and look at the 3 simplest wood aircraft that he lists. The Volksplane, the Flybaby, and the Pietenpol. Only the Piet is a 2-place high-winger, and the other two designs are veritable toddlers compared to the Piet design that has been proven since the 1930s. End of lecture. Build or buy a Piet and start enjoying flying as it was meant to be! I fly as a Sport Pilot, day VFR only, and sleep well at night after falling asleep dreaming about that next flight. You can too... Oscar Zuniga NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html _________________________________________________________________ See what youre getting intobefore you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Value of EAA
Date: Aug 26, 2007
Group, I joined EAA in 1956 when it primarily supported "grass roots" aviation and, except for a brief hiatus years ago, have been a member since. Today I feel pretty much left out of the picture because I have maintained my interest in simple, affordable lightplanes and the world (including EAA) has left me behind in a different era. But this is inevitable and we simply must hold onto the things we cherish by devising alternatives. This group is a viable alternative for people like us and, in some ways, it is even better than EAA was in the early years! However, EAA always was, and continues to be, a strong lobbying force---and we will always need them in this role. Even though I live in Canada, the influence of EAA has been felt here because of interaction between the FAA and Transport Canada. EAA has had a considerable influence internationally and, I hope, will continue to do so. Perhaps EAA will make some changes that could reverse the loss in membership, but there could be forces at work that nobody can control. The middle class in both our countries (and others, too) has taken a beating for a number of years. Pilots/owners typically belong to that class and maintaining their habit may be unaffordable. In addition, other less-regulated recreational activities (eg. motorcycling, boating) are available. This could reduce the pilot population and EAA membership numbers in the future. The Sport Pilot initiative in the U.S. is a step in the right direction because it eases the medical requirement for pilots (I wish we had it here!). But the new LSA airplanes are shockingly high-priced and even older LSA eligible a/c may be unaffordable for many. Maybe the best thing is to build yourself a Pietenpol, have fun flying it around the patch, and just let the rest of the world go by. Hopefully, EAA will change a bit and survive. In the meantime, we still have the Pietenpol-List! Cheers, Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN EAA 2063 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: A Good Weekend.
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Tim, Thanks, nice to know they are being used. Cheers Peter. Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 8:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend. Peter, I want to thank you for your wonderful building pictures-- lots of details, and good size on many of them. I just spent a couple of hours pulling them up and looking at all the details and text. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Peter W Johnson <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> >Sent: Aug 26, 2007 5:18 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend. > > >Hi Guys, > >Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of >the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps. > >I have installed a new (10/10) nitrided, balanced crank, balanced rods and >all new seals etc. I even installed new lifters rather than drain the >existing ones. According to my engine shop mechanic the wrist pins were >nearly seizing in the pistons due to the heat. The near seizure of No 5 >wrist pin caused the con rod big end bearing to slip, hence the rather loud >noises coming from the engine. His thoughts were that the wrist pin wasn't >getting enough oil so he drilled two holes in each piston so that the oil >had a better path to the bearing service. (See >http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/Piston.jpg). It certainly >seems to have worked. > >The engine ground runs showed the oil temp and cht were all normal and the >pressure was good. I have a slight oil leak from the rear case I think and I >will get that sorted in the next day or so. > >I went for a quick flight to see if all was well and, apart from the >landing, everything was great. Seems I know have a Pietenpol that I can fly >without having to worry about high temps. > >Chewing the cud with one of our local crop duster pilots later in the day, I >suggested that he take the Piet for a fly and see if the landings are my >lack of ability or something to do with the undercarriage geometry. > >A quick explanation of the cockpit layout and after levering the guy in the >seat (he's bigger than me) off he went. An hour later and nearly dark, back >he comes with a big grin over his face. Seems like the Piet is fine and I >have to do some more landing practice. A very good feeling indeed. > >I'm still grinning. > >Cheers > >Peter >Wonthaggi Australia >http://www.cpc-world.com > > >5:00 PM > > > 5:00 PM 9:34 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: A Good Weekend.
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Del, I never had any problem with the oil pressures, even at tick over. Certainly high oil temps and moderately high CHT were the norm. The pressure now on start up can go to 60psi and then drop back to the 40s when running. It came back to around 20 psi at idle after an hour flight yesterday. According to my engine shop the excessively tight wrist pin caused the small end bearing to slip. The high oil temps were the product of tight wrist pins. Cheers Peter. Wonthaggi Australia HYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of del magsam Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A Good Weekend. What were the oil pressures before you spun the bearing? I also spun a bearing early on. My pressure was running ok at flight speeds but dropping to 15 lbs at idle. I was battling with high oil temps untill I spun the bearing. After I rebuilt the engine, I put a stronger spring in to raise the oil pressure. Using the same oil cooling system...my oil temps were much lower. When the bearing started to fail the oil temp went over 300 degrees. That was my only indication that something was going wrong. Even on the ground the engine sounded normal with a spun rod bearing. My conclusion.....When an rod bearing starts getting too much clearance in it from lack of oil and excessive wear, it starts heating oil tremendously from the extra friction between the crank and rod beariing, sending the oil temp upwards. A spun bearing because of high oil temp? make sure you have enough oil pressure..... Del Peter W Johnson wrote: Hi Guys, Well I had a good weekend this time. I have just completed the rebuild of the Corvair after it spun a bearing due to high oil temps. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Pietenpol-List 5:00 PM 9:34 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: LSA and affordable flying
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
It's not just affordable the plane is in demand in some cases.Take my case for example;I was called by the Ottawa (Rockliffe) museum to fly into a day of classic aircraft yesterday which made me proud as punch to be there.I was the only Pietenpol there.While I was there I was invited to come and fly for Vintage Wings next Sunday.WOW! Carollyn said we are having a war plane display and flight and I said but I'm not a war plane and she said I don't care,get over here.WOW! I am so dam proud I may not even allow the guys I work with to talk to me today,HAHAHA!What a wonderful plane I have!You guys keep building out there and your day will come believe me! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: August 26, 2007 10:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: LSA and affordable flying I'm going to relate my story here for the benefit of those who might be on the fence. I was 5+ years in building my first homebuilt, a single-place, VW powered high-winger called the M-19 "Flying Squirrel". I realized my flying skills were going by the wayside as my project dragged on and I was looking up at airplanes flying by a whole lot more than I was actually flying. I was also a few years away from completing the Squirrel. I needed to fly and nothing seemed affordable. I got very interested in the Pietenpol for its simplicity, 2-place capability, proven design, excellent support, and long history. Starting a second project was out of the question; that would just put flying further out of reach. One day a newly-completed Piet became available, test hours flown off, but took my breath away with a $15,000 price tag. Time to think about things. 1. There is no other complete, new, 2-place, flying aircraft that I want to fly that is available for that price. 2. Neither of the two cars in my garage (one is 8 years old, one is not even 2) cost that little. 3. Our son owns an offshore fishing boat, twin outboard, that cost more than twice that. 4. Pick up any aviation magazine and look for airplanes that can be built and flown for anything less. Not ultralights; REAL aircraft, honest 2-place aircraft. 5. See (1.) above. Write a couple of checks to Corky and let's go flying. The point is that you're not going to get into the air in anything as sturdy, as clean, as fun, as honest as a Pietenpol for anything near the cost of one so why go looking. Look at the EAA "Wood Book" and read the piece that is titled something like, "Why Not Build a Wooden Airplane?" by Tony Bingelis and look at the 3 simplest wood aircraft that he lists. The Volksplane, the Flybaby, and the Pietenpol. Only the Piet is a 2-place high-winger, and the other two designs are veritable toddlers compared to the Piet design that has been proven since the 1930s. End of lecture. Build or buy a Piet and start enjoying flying as it was meant to be! I fly as a Sport Pilot, day VFR only, and sleep well at night after falling asleep dreaming about that next flight. You can too... Oscar Zuniga NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html _________________________________________________________________ See what you're getting into...before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_050 7 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07
Date: Aug 27, 2007
I responded to this post, what happened to it? RS -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Franck Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:59 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07 From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> (Snip) The ultralight area at AirVenture was like a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. (Snip) Rick The ultralight area has been in a steady decline for years. I mentioned this to EAA's Timm Bogenhagen a year ago and he didn't believe me. I don't think Timm was around EAA in the 80's when ultralights commanded their own, separate convention at Oshkosh. Those conventions were great for the ultralight community, but I don't think they generated in enough money for EAA to justify the continued support of a separate convention. In it's campaign for low cost flying, EAA has changed it's focus to L$A. The enthusiasm that it now expresses for L$A is the same enthusiasm I saw expressed 20+ years ago for ultralights. The truth is EAA realized the "mistake" made with ultralights was a lack of vehicle and pilot registration. $port Pilot and L$A have remedied that situation by requiring mandatory training and licensing of pilots and of aircraft inspection and registration. Prior to all the $port Pilot/L$A brew ha ha I was hopeful that someday Part 103 regs would allow for some changes to increase weight, speed and fuel capacity that reflects real-world flying, but, in my humble opinion, it became the sacrificial lamb offered up on the alter of negotiations when EAA was working out $port Pilot and L$A with the Feds. Ultralights have become the unwanted, red-headed stepchild that EAA no longer wants. (imho) As for the continued decline of EAA's membership numbers, it's not surprising. Those "wind in their hair" types are riding Harleys rather than going through the monetary hassles of flying. I saw the handwriting on the wall when EAA opened up the convention'$ flight line to the general public. Well, that's enough ranting for now. I've got an appointment with my fortune teller to see if there is a very light jet in my future.......... Ron Franck ------------------------------------------------ No Virus Found In This Message Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Piets in the South
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Calling all Pietenpols and builders!!! Our EAA Chapter is having a Fly-In next Month Sept. 15th. Since all 6 Big Piet Builders are Officers and members of EAA 976, we are having a Big Piet Display of an assembled, but uncovered (Corvair Powered) Piet. I have news of several Piets flying to Carrollton to be on display. Call me if you have questions. 770-834-8900 Barry Davis Carrollton, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Sky Scout with GN-1 wing
Date: Aug 27, 2007
I just bought a Sky Scout project with a completed fuselage. The wing for it was used on another plane and a GN-1 wing was started for it. I have all the completed ribs plus the wood and fittings to finish the wings. Anyone else out there ever put a GN-1 wing on a Sky Scout before? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07
Think it's because you responded to a "Digest" letter. Look in the archives Walt Evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07 > > > I responded to this post, what happened to it? > RS > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Franck > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:59 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 08/25/07 > > > From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> > (Snip) The ultralight area at AirVenture was like > a ghost town. The loss of the BFI thing has really killed it. (Snip) > Rick > > The ultralight area has been in a steady decline for years. I > mentioned this to EAA's Timm Bogenhagen a year ago and he didn't believe > me. I don't think Timm was around EAA in the 80's when ultralights > commanded their own, separate convention at Oshkosh. Those conventions > were > great for the ultralight community, but I don't think they generated in > enough money for EAA to justify the continued support of a separate > convention. > In it's campaign for low cost flying, EAA has changed it's focus to > L$A. The enthusiasm that it now expresses for L$A is the same enthusiasm I > saw expressed 20+ years ago for ultralights. The truth is EAA realized the > "mistake" made with ultralights was a lack of vehicle and pilot > registration. $port Pilot and L$A have remedied that situation by > requiring > mandatory training and licensing of pilots and of aircraft inspection and > registration. Prior to all the $port Pilot/L$A brew ha ha I was hopeful > that someday Part 103 regs would allow for some changes to increase > weight, > speed and fuel capacity that reflects real-world flying, but, in my humble > opinion, it became the sacrificial lamb offered up on the alter of > negotiations when EAA was working out $port Pilot and L$A with the Feds. > Ultralights have become the unwanted, red-headed stepchild that EAA no > longer wants. (imho) > As for the continued decline of EAA's membership numbers, it's not > surprising. Those "wind in their hair" types are riding Harleys rather > than > going through the monetary hassles of flying. I saw the handwriting on the > wall when EAA opened up the convention'$ flight line to the general > public. > Well, that's enough ranting for now. I've got an appointment with my > fortune teller to see if there is a very light jet in my future.......... > Ron Franck > > > ------------------------------------------------ > No Virus Found In This Message > Scanned at barracuda.geneseo.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: LSA and affordable flying
Oscar, I don't know what you do for a day job, but you need to write a book. You're the next Richard Bach: > I fly as a Sport Pilot, day VFR only, and sleep well at night >after falling asleep dreaming about that next flight. You can too... > >Oscar Zuniga >NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/CorkyPiet.html > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: LSA and affordable flying
Date: Aug 27, 2007
> Oscar, > > I don't know what you do for a day job, but you need to write a book. > You're the next Richard Bach: > > > I fly as a Sport Pilot, day VFR only, and sleep well at night > >after falling asleep dreaming about that next flight. You can too... > > Oscar Zuniga Seagull? Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alan Lyscars" <alyscars(at)maine.rr.com>
Subject: Bending 4130 sheet
Date: Aug 27, 2007
Fellows, Help...I've fallen and I can't get up! I'm ready to bend up some .063 steel in a U-shape for pulley brackets (drawing # 800-05 for those of you with plans) for my GN-1. The rough dim. is 2"x2" with 1/2" between the sides. I don't have access to a brake, but I did construct a bending block the way Uncle Tony Bengelis said to. Now what?? All thoughts appreciated by, Al in Portland, Maine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Aug 27, 2007
From: Greg Chapman <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Re: LSA and affordable flying
Oscar Zuniga SeatenPol BTW, Oscar, I met the guy who started the original build of your airplane this weekend up at my home field (5k6). Greg Patrick Panzera wrote: > >> Oscar, >> >> I don't know what you do for a day job, but you need to write a book. >> You're the next Richard Bach: >> >>> I fly as a Sport Pilot, day VFR only, and sleep well at night >>> after falling asleep dreaming about that next flight. You can too... >>> > > Oscar Zuniga Seagull? > > Pat > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bending 4130 sheet
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Hi Al...If you have Uncle Tony's " Sport Plane Construction Techniques" The yellow book...He goes through the proceedure step by step on page 49. You bend the first 90 as ussual with your brnding blocks and then make a tapered hardwood block to make the second bend. I always cut the blank a little long and trim it after bending rather than try to figure for bending allowance and do any drilling after making the bends. Make sure the metal is square to the bending block on the first bend otherwise the fitting will come out twisted. What would we do without Uncle Tony???!!!..Have fun....Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars<mailto:alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> To: Piet List Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending 4130 sheet Fellows, Help...I've fallen and I can't get up! I'm ready to bend up some .063 steel in a U-shape for pulley brackets (drawing # 800-05 for those of you with plans) for my GN-1. The rough dim. is 2"x2" with 1/2" between the sides. I don't have access to a brake, but I did construct a bending block the way Uncle Tony Bengelis said to. Now what?? All thoughts appreciated by, Al in Portland, Maine http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bending 4130 sheet
Date: Aug 28, 2007
Oh....And always bend 4130 perpendicular to the grain of the steel. The printing on the sheet runs with the grain. But you probably knew that.....Ed G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Lyscars<mailto:alyscars(at)maine.rr.com> To: Piet List Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending 4130 sheet Fellows, Help...I've fallen and I can't get up! I'm ready to bend up some .063 steel in a U-shape for pulley brackets (drawing # 800-05 for those of you with plans) for my GN-1. The rough dim. is 2"x2" with 1/2" between the sides. I don't have access to a brake, but I did construct a bending block the way Uncle Tony Bengelis said to. Now what?? All thoughts appreciated by, Al in Portland, Maine http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: dropping names
Date: Aug 28, 2007
"Brian Kraut" wrote- >I just bought a Sky Scout project with a completed fuselage. Hey, Brian- what are you doing here on the Piet list? Aren't you a KR guy? The Piet/Sky Scout cruise speed is lower than the stall speed of a KR! ;o) And Greg wrote- >BTW, Oscar, I met the guy who started the original build of your >airplane this weekend up at my home field (5k6). Would that be Joe Czaplicki? He and Corky, as well as test pilot Edwin, have sent me some nice items to fill in the history behind 41CC... notes, photos. It's a well-documented build. And the airplane logs made for some very interesting and helpful reading and gave the airplane a much deeper character to me. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: dropping names
Date: Aug 28, 2007
I had been meaning to ask you if you still had your KR when I saw that you were on this list. All part of my quest to have owned one of everything before I die! Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: dropping names

August 06, 2007 - August 28, 2007

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ga