Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gg
November 13, 2007 - November 29, 2007
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
I had same question a while ago. My top wing is GN-1 and has .026 aluminum, with
the brass coated nails. However it sat a long time in AZ and the nails were
pulling out. Consensus seems to be that wood is better, stiffer and it expands/contracts
more like the wood in the wings.
Think in my case I will end up using aluminum for bottom wing as it would look
odd to do one aluminum, other wood, and I am more comfortable working with aluminum.
(Lived in Wichita, KS, took sheet metal classes thinking I might need them
to work at Beechcraft/Boeing or Cessna ... fortunately career went other direction.)
Did see a nice tip on cutting sheet metal (light gage only) you can score it with
a hobby mat cutter a few times and get a clean line. Then bend it till it comes
clean off. Much easier to get a mat cutter than a good 8-10ft metal shear.
Snips make a pretty rough edge too.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145686#145686
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge |
How timely! I was just starting on this part myself and you just illustrated
everything I was uncertain about on the leading edge sheet.
-Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Sorry to use this forum for a "private" message but I don't have an email f
or Virgil Chapman in Lees Summit, MO-
Virgil, I sent out your dataplate but I believe I left off the required pos
tage. If it arrives "postage due" please let me know and I'll make it up t
o you. It was unintentional!Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@h
otmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
I have a set of ribs for the 3 piece wing for sale. They are boxed and
ready to ship. If anyone is interested please PM me at
rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Lassetter" <rblassett(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Construction/Restoration |
Hello all,
I would like to offer my aircraft construction/restoration services to the
group. I have a 40' X 60' hangar in NE Georgia and have a lifetime of
experience with various aircraft. I can construct large projects for $15.00
per hour with first-class workmanship. Please email me directly or give me
a call.
Russ Lassetter
202 Aviation Blvd.
Cleveland, GA 30528
706-348-7514
rblassett(at)alltel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Dumay" <captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca> |
Fuselage Assembly
A question, for the experienced ?
I'm ready to start assembling the fuselage for our Extended Air Camper, and
wonder if the plywood should not be glued on the bottom, left and right
side, until the interior is complete.
Controls, rudder pedals, cable pully's, rigging, etc.
Or, should I just put all the plywood on now, and fit everything afterwards.
We were going to assemble, the bottom and sides, the internal wood members,
and then put the plywood skins on last, after the skeleton framework has
dried..
What about our plans, to run a piano wire above, and dead centre of the
fuselage. To be used for a reference point for square, level and a
centreline for accuracy?
Is there a better way, or place to find more details?.
Thanks in advance
Captain Marcus
Chatham, On
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Its been 2 years since I did my fuselage, but as I remember I nailed the
bottom on the fuselage while it was still in the jig, after I glued the
tail post together. This really stiffens up the whole structure. I
suppose you could wait to nail the side pieces on, but the fuselage is
only 24 inches deep and reaching down to install the fittings wasn't a
problem for me. I just used a chalk line snapped on my building table as
a centerline reference and had the table as level as I could get them
prior to joining the fuselage sides. I was a lot better at taking
pictures back then, and you may want to look at some of them at:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Ben&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
Scroll down to May-Sept 2005 and there are a few pictures of my
fuselage. I did wait until the seats were installed before nailing on
the plywood sides. Don't forget the inner plywood sheeting that goes on
the upper forward part of the fuselage between the firewall and the
forward cabane struts (I forgot and had to add it later)
Welcome to the list. You will find lots of good advice from others that
have already faced the same questions, and many varying ways folks have
solved the problems. Solving all these problems is part of the fun!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Marc Dumay wrote:
>
> Fuselage Assembly
>
> A question, for the experienced ?
>
> Im ready to start assembling the fuselage for our Extended Air
> Camper, and wonder if the plywood should not be glued on the bottom,
> left and right side, until the interior is complete.
>
> Controls, rudder pedals, cable pullys, rigging, etc.
>
> Or, should I just put all the plywood on now, and fit everything
> afterwards.
>
> We were going to assemble, the bottom and sides, the internal wood
> members, and then put the plywood skins on last, after the skeleton
> framework has dried..
>
> What about our plans, to run a piano wire above, and dead centre of
> the fuselage. To be used for a reference point for square, level and a
> centreline for accuracy?
>
> Is there a better way, or place to find more details?.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Captain Marcus
>
> Chatham, On
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <watash101(at)cox.net> |
Please advise price and if possible, pictures
thanks
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146055#146055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum Ralmark Pulleys for sale |
I have 4 new Ralmark MS20220A2 pulleys for sale. They came in a box
with stuff I got from my Taylorcraft last year. They are brand new
never used . Perfect for aileron control pullies. All aluminum with
sealed ball bearings Aircraft Spruce has these priced at $33 each.
I'll sell all 4 for $105 shipped.
email me off list if intersted at info (at) azchoppercam.com
DJ Vegh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Dumay" <captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | need technical advice from the pros |
Good day
We are about to assemble the fuselage of our Air Camper.
Should we just go ahead and glue all the plywood, seat backs, braces, etc.
before we do any interior work such as pulleys, rigging.
Or is it better to leave a certain section of plywood off to do other work
first?
What is the preferred method in gluing/fastening the ribs to the spars.
Does anyone have a detailed photo, of how they fastened the ribs to the
spars?
Thank you for any advice
captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need technical advice from the pros |
I held off gluing both plywood sides and the firewall until I had all
controls and seat parts installed. Thought it made assembly easier although
many glue the plywood side panels on before joining the sides.
Rick
On Nov 14, 2007 8:11 PM, Marc Dumay wrote:
> Good day
>
>
> We are about to assemble the fuselage of our Air Camper.
>
> Should we just go ahead and glue all the plywood, seat backs, braces, etc.
> before we do any interior work such as pulleys, rigging.
>
> Or is it better to leave a certain section of plywood off to do other work
> first?
>
> What is the preferred method in gluing/fastening the ribs to the spars.
>
> Does anyone have a detailed photo, of how they fastened the ribs to the
> spars?
>
>
> Thank you for any advice
>
> captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tenpol-List: |
Ben,
Where did you get your fuel tank?
Ken H
Ben Charvet wrote:
Its been 2 years since I did my fuselage, but as I remember I nailed the
bottom on the fuselage while it was still in the jig, after I glued the
tail post together. This really stiffens up the whole structure. I
suppose you could wait to nail the side pieces on, but the fuselage is
only 24 inches deep and reaching down to install the fittings wasn't a
problem for me. I just used a chalk line snapped on my building table as
a centerline reference and had the table as level as I could get them
prior to joining the fuselage sides. I was a lot better at taking
pictures back then, and you may want to look at some of them at:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Ben&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
Scroll down to May-Sept 2005 and there are a few pictures of my
fuselage. I did wait until the seats were installed before nailing on
the plywood sides. Don't forget the inner plywood sheeting that goes on
the upper forward part of the fuselage between the firewall and the
forward cabane struts (I forgot and had to add it later)
Welcome to the list. You will find lots of good advice from others that
have already faced the same questions, and many varying ways folks have
solved the problems. Solving all these problems is part of the fun!
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Marc Dumay wrote:
>
> Fuselage Assembly
>
> A question, for the experienced ?
>
> Im ready to start assembling the fuselage for our Extended Air
> Camper, and wonder if the plywood should not be glued on the bottom,
> left and right side, until the interior is complete.
>
> Controls, rudder pedals, cable pullys, rigging, etc.
>
> Or, should I just put all the plywood on now, and fit everything
> afterwards.
>
> We were going to assemble, the bottom and sides, the internal wood
> members, and then put the plywood skins on last, after the skeleton
> framework has dried..
>
> What about our plans, to run a piano wire above, and dead centre of
> the fuselage. To be used for a reference point for square, level and a
> centreline for accuracy?
>
> Is there a better way, or place to find more details?.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Captain Marcus
>
> Chatham, On
>
> *
>
>
> *
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Value of the List... |
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Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need technical advice from the pros |
I glued all of the plywood except for the firewall and had no problems at
all installing the controls, pulleys etc. Leaving the firewall plywood off
until after the front rudder pedals are installed was a big help. I
temporarily nailed an X of thin wood strips accross the firewall opening to
keep the fuselage square while the seatbacks etc. were being installed. Ed
G.
>From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need technical advice from the pros
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:33:07 -0700
>
>I held off gluing both plywood sides and the firewall until I had all
>controls and seat parts installed. Thought it made assembly easier although
>many glue the plywood side panels on before joining the sides.
>
>Rick
>
>On Nov 14, 2007 8:11 PM, Marc Dumay wrote:
>
> > Good day
> >
> >
> >
> > We are about to assemble the fuselage of our Air Camper.
> >
> > Should we just go ahead and glue all the plywood, seat backs, braces,
>etc.
> > before we do any interior work such as pulleys, rigging.
> >
> > Or is it better to leave a certain section of plywood off to do other
>work
> > first?
> >
> > What is the preferred method in gluing/fastening the ribs to the spars.
> >
> > Does anyone have a detailed photo, of how they fastened the ribs to the
> > spars?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for any advice
> >
> > captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>Rick Holland
>ObjectAge Ltd.
>Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | need technical advice from the pros |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
I did the same as Ed, except I made a temporary firewall of cheap 1/4"
plywood and nailed it in place. If you can get in to the firewall area,
the rest of the plywood does not get in the way. See attached photo
with a much younger "me" sitting in the fuselage (that picture was taken
about 9 years ago).
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G.
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need technical advice from the pros
I glued all of the plywood except for the firewall and had no problems
at
all installing the controls, pulleys etc. Leaving the firewall plywood
off
until after the front rudder pedals are installed was a big help. I
temporarily nailed an X of thin wood strips accross the firewall opening
to
keep the fuselage square while the seatbacks etc. were being installed.
Ed
G.
>From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need technical advice from the pros
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:33:07 -0700
>
>I held off gluing both plywood sides and the firewall until I had all
>controls and seat parts installed. Thought it made assembly easier
although
>many glue the plywood side panels on before joining the sides.
>
>Rick
>
>On Nov 14, 2007 8:11 PM, Marc Dumay wrote:
>
> > Good day
> >
> >
> >
> > We are about to assemble the fuselage of our Air Camper.
> >
> > Should we just go ahead and glue all the plywood, seat backs,
braces,
>etc.
> > before we do any interior work such as pulleys, rigging.
> >
> > Or is it better to leave a certain section of plywood off to do
other
>work
> > first?
> >
> > What is the preferred method in gluing/fastening the ribs to the
spars.
> >
> > Does anyone have a detailed photo, of how they fastened the ribs to
the
> > spars?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for any advice
> >
> > captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>Rick Holland
>ObjectAge Ltd.
>Castle Rock, Colorado
_________________________________________________
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orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need technical advice from the pros fuselage |
Rick, I am at that point now. What I did was install all the vertical gusset plates,
join the two sides at the tail, install all cross members and struts (without
gusset plates), the firewall and pilot's seat back. At this point I removed
it from the jig. The firewall, pilot's seat back and the tail will keep the
fuselage square, the cross struts keep the sides where they should be. I did
it this way so I could prep and glue the horizontal gussets in the tail and
the floor while it's up side down, then flip the fuselage over to let the glue
to set up. T-88 joints are so much nicer when the pieces are able to sit in the
pooling epoxy (wiping off excess of course) rather than it running out and
down along the braces.
Happy Building,
Ryan M
"Ed G." wrote:
I glued all of the plywood except for the firewall and had no problems at
all installing the controls, pulleys etc. Leaving the firewall plywood off
until after the front rudder pedals are installed was a big help. I
temporarily nailed an X of thin wood strips accross the firewall opening to
keep the fuselage square while the seatbacks etc. were being installed. Ed
G.
>From: "Rick Holland"
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: need technical advice from the pros
>Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:33:07 -0700
>
>I held off gluing both plywood sides and the firewall until I had all
>controls and seat parts installed. Thought it made assembly easier although
>many glue the plywood side panels on before joining the sides.
>
>Rick
>
>On Nov 14, 2007 8:11 PM, Marc Dumay wrote:
>
> > Good day
> >
> >
> >
> > We are about to assemble the fuselage of our Air Camper.
> >
> > Should we just go ahead and glue all the plywood, seat backs, braces,
>etc.
> > before we do any interior work such as pulleys, rigging.
> >
> > Or is it better to leave a certain section of plywood off to do other
>work
> > first?
> >
> > What is the preferred method in gluing/fastening the ribs to the spars.
> >
> > Does anyone have a detailed photo, of how they fastened the ribs to the
> > spars?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for any advice
> >
> > captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
>--
>Rick Holland
>ObjectAge Ltd.
>Castle Rock, Colorado
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List=Fuel Tank |
I got lucky on the fuel tank, and a guy in my chapter gave it to me. It
came out of a Piper Cub and fits in the nose pretty nicely, although I'm
going to need to extend the filler neck a little bit. I believe it holds
12 gallons
Ben
K
MHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP wrote:
> Ben,
> Where did you get your fuel tank?
> Ken H
>
> */Ben Charvet /* wrote:
>
>
> Its been 2 years since I did my fuselage, but as I remember I
> nailed the
> bottom on the fuselage while it was still in the jig, after I
> glued the
> tail post together. This really stiffens up the whole structure. I
> suppose you could wait to nail the side pieces on, but the
> fuselage is
> only 24 inches deep and reaching down to install the fittings
> wasn't a
> problem for me. I just used a chalk line snapped on my building
> table as
> a centerline reference and had the table as level as I could get them
> prior to joining the fuselage sides. I was a lot better at taking
> pictures back then, and you may want to look at some of them at:
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReport.cfm?PlaneID=481&FName=Ben&LName=Charvet&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
>
> Scroll down to May-Sept 2005 and there are a few pictures of my
> fuselage. I did wait until the seats were installed before nailing on
> the plywood sides. Don't forget the inner plywood sheeting that
> goes on
> the upper forward part of the fuselage between the firewall and the
> forward cabane struts (I forgot and had to add it later)
>
> Welcome to the list. You will find lots of good advice from others
> that
> have already faced the same questions, and many varying ways folks
> have
> solved the problems. Solving all these problems is part of the fun!
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
>
> Marc Dumay wrote:
> >
> > Fuselage Assembly
> >
> > A question, for the experienced ?
> >
> > Im ready to start assembling the fuselage for our Extended Air
> > Camper, and wonder if the plywood should not be glued on the
> bottom,
> > left and right side, until the interior is complete.
> >
> > Controls, rudder pedals, cable pullys, rigging, etc.
> >
> > Or, should I just put all the plywood on now, and fit everything
> > afterwards.
> >
> > We were going to assemble, the bottom and sides, the internal wood
> > members, and then put the plywood skins on last, after the skeleton
> > framework has dried..
> >
> > What about our plans, to run a piano wire above, and dead centre of
> > the fuselage. To be used for a reference point for square, level
> and a
> > centreline for accuracy?
> >
> > Is there a better way, or place to find more details?.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > Captain Marcus
> >
> > Chatham, On
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
I paid $350 and haven't even unpacked them before I bought a project. I'll
try to get some pictures this weekend for you.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: November 14, 2007 7:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs
Please advise price and if possible, pictures
thanks
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146055#146055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Dallas,
First of all, welcome to the list, and enjoy your project, despite the
unfortunate circumstances that led to your recieving it.
I haven't actually seen GN-1 plans personally - only the Pietenpol
plans, but there are a few details that make it a little easier to tell
the two apart.
If your project is not covered yet, it should be a little easier, as the
metal fittings for the GN-1 centersection are quite different from the
Pietenpol fittings. Since you have the Pietenpol plans, you should be
able to see which ones you have.
The Pietenpol control horns are made of light gauge sheet metal, formed
into an airfoil shape, whereas the GN-1 control horns are cut from a
single thickness of heavier sheet metal.
The Pietenpol rudder horns are mounted about half-way up the rudder
(above the horizontal stab), whereas the GN-1 rudder horns are mounted
near the bottom of the rudder (below the H-stab).
The Pietenpol has plywood fuselage sides only as far back as the pilot's
seat, but if made to the plans, the GN-1 has plywood running the full
length of the fuselage.
The distance between the forward cabane strut attach points and the
firewall is a bit bigger (at least it sure looks bigger) in the GN-1
than the Pietenpol.
The Pietenpol has a single stringer running down the outside of the
fuselage, to give the fuse a bit of shape, whereas the GN-1 has two,
making it look a bit rounder.
The true Pietenpol landing gear attaches to the fuselage at the same
points as the lift struts, but the GN-1 landing gear (borrowed from a
Piper Cub) only mates up at the forward lift strut attach point.
The Pietenpol design allows the wing location (relative to the firewall)
to be adjusted forward or backward (usually backward) to compensate for
weight and balance issues. As I understand it, the GN-1 design does not
have this ability.
However, all of the above depends on the builder following the plans.
And it appears that almost every builder thinks of at least one way to
"improve" the plans for either of these two craft, so it becomes very
difficult to tell what is what sometimes. For instance, it sounds like
your friend incorporated a trim system into his (your) project. Neither
plan set includes a trim system (as far as I know).
If you could post a few pictures, a few sharp-eyed list members would
likely be able to tell you what you have.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Piet on the block |
Skip
How big are the lots and any idea how much they are going for?
Rick
On Nov 8, 2007 7:22 PM, Skip Gadd wrote:
> Rick,
> We have one runway lot for sale and one across the runway from us may be
> on the market soon, the rest are sold, there are currently 5 hangar or
> hangar/apartments under construction. You would love it here, density
> altitude way less than you have out west ;o)
> Skip
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* 11/2/2007 9:39:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
>
> Or Piet Heaven. Soon you will have more Piets than Broadhead. I am
> jealous, would love to find an air park as nice are yours one of these days.
>
> Rick
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Dallas.
The back pit in the Grega is allot smaller, 23 1/4", in the Piet it is at least
29" and in the longest fuse is 31".
The front spar is larger than the back spar on the Grega. The Piet, both spars
are the same size.
The aileron cables run out the front spar on the Grega and the rear spar on the
Piet.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: dlbenham
Sent: 11/15/2007 10:57:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mystery
Hi Group:
A few weeks ago a long time friend passed away and left me his airplane project.
After hauling the project from Florida to Indiana, and becoming more familiar
with it, I don't know if it is a Pietenpol or a GN-1 aircamper. He always
called it a Pietenpol.
Thanks
Dallas L. Benham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Regarding the use of plywood for the leading edge, there's a really good
deal available from Boulter Plywood.
They have 1.5mm Okoume Marine Plywood in 4' x 8' sheets on special for
ONLY $23 per sheet! One sheet would do a set of wings.
Here's a web link:
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
Go to the tab at the top of the page for "Specials". It says that it's
an October Special, but they've got a couple thousand sheets, so they
should have some left.
Unfortunately for me, I'm up in Canada, and the cost to ship across the
border is ridiculous. I enquired to the folks at Boulter, for the cost
to ship two or three sheets up to me (I even said it would be okay to
rip them into 12" strips, to keep the costs down), and they came back
with a cost of $150 just for the shipping. It would be a lot cheaper to
have it sent to Alaska. Too bad I don't have an address that ends in
USA.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Piet on the block |
Rick,
The lots are an acre, the one for sale now is 25K, and the other will probably
be about the same when it comes on the market.
http://www.geocities.com/haleslanding/
We had a warm spell and I got to fly Felix the other day, colder and rainy now
so it may be awhile before we can go up again. I have been doing a lot of wheel
landings lately, seems I can do better wheel landings more consistently than
3 point.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: 11/15/2007 2:52:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
Skip
How big are the lots and any idea how much they are going for?
Rick
On Nov 8, 2007 7:22 PM, Skip Gadd wrote:
Rick,
We have one runway lot for sale and one across the runway from us may be on the
market soon, the rest are sold, there are currently 5 hangar or hangar/apartments
under construction. You would love it here, density altitude way less than
you have out west ;o)
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: 11/2/2007 9:39:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
Or Piet Heaven. Soon you will have more Piets than Broadhead. I am jealous, would
love to find an air park as nice are yours one of these days.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
Yea Bill, but you get all that "free" health care up there.
Rick
On Nov 15, 2007 2:20 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> Regarding the use of plywood for the leading edge, there's a really good
> deal available from Boulter Plywood.
> They have 1.5mm Okoume Marine Plywood in 4' x 8' sheets on special for
> ONLY $23 per sheet! One sheet would do a set of wings.
> Here's a web link:
>
> http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>
> Go to the tab at the top of the page for "Specials". It says that it's an
> October Special, but they've got a couple thousand sheets, so they should
> have some left.
>
> Unfortunately for me, I'm up in Canada, and the cost to ship across the
> border is ridiculous. I enquired to the folks at Boulter, for the cost to
> ship two or three sheets up to me (I even said it would be okay to rip them
> into 12" strips, to keep the costs down), and they came back with a cost of
> $150 just for the shipping. It would be a lot cheaper to have it sent to
> Alaska. Too bad I don't have an address that ends in USA.
>
>
> Bill C.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Piet on the block |
Thanks Skip, and its really nice to have those wheel landings figured out
when a good crosswind comes up. Hales Landing looks like a real pretty spot,
lots of water around you, and viewing it with google maps shows a golf
course not too far away. Very nice.
Rick
On Nov 15, 2007 2:45 PM, Skip Gadd wrote:
> Rick,
> The lots are an acre, the one for sale now is 25K, and the other will
> probably be about the same when it comes on the market.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/haleslanding/
>
> We had a warm spell and I got to fly Felix the other day, colder and rainy
> now so it may be awhile before we can go up again. I have been doing a lot
> of wheel landings lately, seems I can do better wheel landings more
> consistently than 3 point.
>
> Skip
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* 11/15/2007 2:52:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
>
> Skip
>
> How big are the lots and any idea how much they are going for?
>
> Rick
>
> On Nov 8, 2007 7:22 PM, Skip Gadd wrote:
>
> > Rick,
> > We have one runway lot for sale and one across the runway from us may be
> > on the market soon, the rest are sold, there are currently 5 hangar or
> > hangar/apartments under construction. You would love it here, density
> > altitude way less than you have out west ;o)
> > Skip
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Rick Holland
> > *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Sent:* 11/2/2007 9:39:04 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: New Piet on the block
> >
> > Or Piet Heaven. Soon you will have more Piets than Broadhead. I am
> > jealous, would love to find an air park as nice are yours one of these days.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> ObjectAge Ltd.
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
I'm going to be in Arlington, MA (right down the street from Boulter on
Monday). I'll pick some up while I'm there. Where else on the Piet would
you be able to use that? Too bad it isn't June, I'd offer to pick some up
and take it to Brodhead. This weekend I'll make a materials list and see
what else they have on special.
Thanks Bill,
Glenn
On 11/15/07, Bill Church wrote:
>
> Regarding the use of plywood for the leading edge, there's a really good
> deal available from Boulter Plywood.
> They have 1.5mm Okoume Marine Plywood in 4' x 8' sheets on special for
> ONLY $23 per sheet! One sheet would do a set of wings.
> Here's a web link:
>
> http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>
> Go to the tab at the top of the page for "Specials". It says that it's an
> October Special, but they've got a couple thousand sheets, so they should
> have some left.
>
> Unfortunately for me, I'm up in Canada, and the cost to ship across the
> border is ridiculous. I enquired to the folks at Boulter, for the cost to
> ship two or three sheets up to me (I even said it would be okay to rip them
> into 12" strips, to keep the costs down), and they came back with a cost of
> $150 just for the shipping. It would be a lot cheaper to have it sent to
> Alaska. Too bad I don't have an address that ends in USA.
>
>
> Bill C.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Piper Cub airspeed indicator for sale |
it's on ebay. Came with my Taylorcraft. I pulled it out last November and
it worked when removed. Would need to be re-certified for legal use in
certificated aircraft or use as is in your experimental.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110194134832
DJ Vegh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
That seems odd. I bought Okume in Toronto a few years ago to build a
kayak. The US dollar was in a bit better shape then. When I crossed the
border with the wood hanging out of the back of my pickup they let it pass
under NAFTA with no duties. The plywood came from Israel.
Dave
At 04:20 PM 11/15/2007, you wrote:
>Regarding the use of plywood for the leading edge, there's a really good
>deal available from Boulter Plywood.
>They have 1.5mm Okoume Marine Plywood in 4' x 8' sheets on special for
>ONLY $23 per sheet! One sheet would do a set of wings.
>Here's a web link:
>
><http://www.boulterplywood.com/>http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>
>Go to the tab at the top of the page for "Specials". It says that it's an
>October Special, but they've got a couple thousand sheets, so they should
>have some left.
>
>Unfortunately for me, I'm up in Canada, and the cost to ship across the
>border is ridiculous. I enquired to the folks at Boulter, for the cost to
>ship two or three sheets up to me (I even said it would be okay to rip
>them into 12" strips, to keep the costs down), and they came back with a
>cost of $150 just for the shipping. It would be a lot cheaper to have it
>sent to Alaska. Too bad I don't have an address that ends in USA.
>
>
>Bill C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <watash101(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for the reply. Just want to make sure of the quality, and the presence of
T-88. Will await your reply and have a good evening.
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146338#146338
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | Leading airfoil shape-- scalloped back edge |
We made little scalloped gussets, beveled to attach to the leading edge plywood
(also beveled). Don't know why I did this, maybe I was boring or want to add
some weight : )
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Compart video en la ventana de tus mensajes y tambin tus fotos de Flickr.
Usel Nuevo Yahoo! Messenger versin Beta.
Visit http://ar.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | need technical advice from the pros |
We left the plywood sides off until we installed all the controls, throttle levers,
pedals etc. We even installed the landing gear and varnished the interior
before gluing the sides (also varnished the plywood sides). I konw it is not
necessary but this way you can work very comfortably.
Some photos attached
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
Compart video en la ventana de tus mensajes y tambin tus fotos de Flickr.
Usel Nuevo Yahoo! Messenger versin Beta.
Visit http://ar.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Aeronca threaded strut forks |
I have two strut forks. I am told they are from an Aeronca. They are
100% corrosion free. Have been walnut shell blasted and very clean.
I'm told these go for big bucks. Looking to get $60 each.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | need technical advice from the pros |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Real nice workmanship!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of santiago
morete
Sent: November 15, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: need technical advice from the pros
We left the plywood sides off until we installed all the controls,
throttle levers, pedals etc. We even installed the landing gear and
varnished the interior before gluing the sides (also varnished the
plywood sides). I konw it is not necessary but this way you can work
very comfortably.
Some photos attached
Saludos
Santiago
________________________________
Compart=ED video en la ventana de tus mensajes y tambi=E9n tus fotos de
Flickr.
Us=E1 el Nuevo Yahoo! Messenger versi=F3n Beta.
Visit=E1 http://ar.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
| Subject: | aeronca strut forks |
ooops my mistake. I thought the forks sold for higher than they do so
I'm revising my price to $25 each which is more than half off.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aeronca strut forks |
they are sold thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: DJ Vegh
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: aeronca strut forks
ooops my mistake. I thought the forks sold for higher than they do so
I'm revising my price to $25 each which is more than half off.
DJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | routing of engine controls |
Dear List,
I'm thinking of routing my engine controls (tach,oil press & temp,mixture,etc)
outside fuselage and under the fabric so as to keep the front cockpit uncluttered.
Is there any reason for not doing this?
Thanks,
Tom Bernie
Gloucester, Mass
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dlbenham" <dlbenham(at)hughes.net> |
Jack, Bill, and Skip:
A great big THANKS for all of the information you fellows offered. From
that information, I DEFINITELY have a Grega GN-1. The project has Piper
Cub landing gear, plywood sides runs to end of fuselage, 2 side
stringers each side, all control horns are flat pieces, rudder horn is
almost at the bottom of the rudder, wing spars different sizes. Aileron
cables are routed from front stick up to front spar, then out to pulleys
that align with aileron horns.
Do any of you guys know if the GN-1 has changed the struts from square
to streamlined. I know the square ones will need some type of
streamlining installed, (balsa, foam, etc.) Does Grega's son still offer
plans? I have been on the website, but unless I overlooked it, they are
not offered. I need to contact him directly.
Thanks again for all of the information and help.
Dallas L. Benham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | routing of engine controls |
I hope not because that's the way I did mine and for the same reason. The
only problem I could see would be replaceing one of them if they were to
were to go bad but with good quality components that is not likely for a
long long time. I figure if that were to happen a new one could be run
inside until the next covering job. Ed G.
>From: Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: routing of engine controls
>Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:54:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>
>
>Dear List,
>
>I'm thinking of routing my engine controls (tach,oil press &
>temp,mixture,etc) outside fuselage and under the fabric so as to keep the
>front cockpit uncluttered. Is there any reason for not doing this?
>
>Thanks,
>Tom Bernie
>Gloucester, Mass
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: routing of engine controls |
Corky did it that way on my plane, for the same reason. Besides less clutter,
it's easier to mess with after you ply skin it but before you cover with fabric.
Later, after fabric cover, of course the reverse is true. Suit yourself.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Nov 16, 2007 10:54 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: routing of engine controls
>
>
>Dear List,
>
>I'm thinking of routing my engine controls (tach,oil press & temp,mixture,etc)
outside fuselage and under the fabric so as to keep the front cockpit uncluttered.
Is there any reason for not doing this?
>
>Thanks,
>Tom Bernie
>Gloucester, Mass
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: routing of engine controls |
Tom,
Under the fabric will make the outside of your fuse look kinda lumpy. Heck,
hardly anyone can fit in the front cockpit anyway, a few more cable, more or
less, ain't gonna make a lot of diff. If you want to pretty it up a little,
you could consider running all your cables/tubes thru some flex conduit like
electricians use. Or better yet, run them and then use spiril wrap to
bundle them. Over the course of years you're going to be taking these
tubes/cables in and out for repairs and replacements, so you probably should
consider access more important than some space crunch in the front seat.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: routing of engine controls
>
> Dear List,
>
> I'm thinking of routing my engine controls (tach,oil press &
> temp,mixture,etc) outside fuselage and under the fabric so as to keep the
> front cockpit uncluttered. Is there any reason for not doing this?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Bernie
> Gloucester, Mass
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: routing of engine controls |
Tom
That is actually a very goo idea. Others have done the same. One
additional suggestion, if you put the wires in a tube under the fabric you
would be able to add a wire in the future for an unknown reason, at this
point.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Bernie" <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: routing of engine controls
>
> Dear List,
>
> I'm thinking of routing my engine controls (tach,oil press &
> temp,mixture,etc) outside fuselage and under the fabric so as to keep the
> front cockpit uncluttered. Is there any reason for not doing this?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Bernie
> Gloucester, Mass
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Chambers" <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: need technical advice from the pros |
Santiago
When you made the landing gear, how did you compensate for the width
of the fuselage sides?
Did you temporarily add 1/8th inch plywood to the landing gear fitting
area to simulate the width of the sides?
Ken in Austin, almost done with the house (as much as you can ever be
done with an old house) and getting back to the piet (soon)
On Nov 15, 2007 9:01 PM, santiago morete wrote:
> We left the plywood sides off until we installed all the controls, throttle
> levers, pedals etc. We even installed the landing gear and varnished the
> interior before gluing the sides (also varnished the plywood sides). I konw
> it is not necessary but this way you can work very comfortably.
> Some photos attached
> Saludos
>
> Santiago
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Compart video en la ventana de tus mensajes y tambin tus fotos de Flickr.
> Us el Nuevo Yahoo! Messenger versin Beta.
> Visit http://ar.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | routing of engine controls |
I bought a bunch of super magnets about the size of pencil erasers and used
them to pull a nail attached to a thread to pull a wire behind a fiberglas
s headliner in my sailboat. Would certainly work thru fabric. I also have
some oval plastic tube about 1/4" x 1/2" that would be great for routing w
ire thru. Perhaps a couple of channels would be the route to go keep the m
echanical cables away from the wires. I think the tubes came out of some p
ull down blinds. Just my thoughts.
Steve in Maine
> From: flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: routing of engine controls
> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:13:31 -0500
>
>
>
> I hope not because that's the way I did mine and for the same reason. The
> only problem I could see would be replaceing one of them if they were to
> were to go bad but with good quality components that is not likely for a
> long long time. I figure if that were to happen a new one could be run
> inside until the next covering job. Ed G.
>
>
> >From: Tom Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: routing of engine controls
> >Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:54:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> >
>
> >
> >Dear List,
> >
> >I'm thinking of routing my engine controls (tach,oil press &
> >temp,mixture,etc) outside fuselage and under the fabric so as to keep th
e
> >front cockpit uncluttered. Is there any reason for not doing this?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Tom Bernie
> >Gloucester, Mass
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
I called about a month ago and they were not offering new plans.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of dlbenham
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 10:21 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mystery
Jack, Bill, and Skip:
A great big THANKS for all of the information you fellows offered. From
that information, I DEFINITELY have a Grega GN-1. The project has Piper Cub
landing gear, plywood sides runs to end of fuselage, 2 side stringers each
side, all control horns are flat pieces, rudder horn is almost at the bottom
of the rudder, wing spars different sizes. Aileron cables are routed from
front stick up to front spar, then out to pulleys that align with aileron
horns.
Do any of you guys know if the GN-1 has changed the struts from square to
streamlined. I know the square ones will need some type of streamlining
installed, (balsa, foam, etc.) Does Grega's son still offer plans? I have
been on the website, but unless I overlooked it, they are not offered. I
need to contact him directly.
Thanks again for all of the information and help.
Dallas L. Benham
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Leading airfoil shape-- wood vs. metal |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Glenn,
The wing leading edge is the main area where this plywood would be used.
Of course, the wing rib gussets are 1/16" ply, as well.
It could also be used for the cockpit combing, instead of aluminum. From
what I've been told, it's actually a bit lighter than using aluminum,
when you take into account all the screws you don't have to use - but I
haven't bothered to check out the validity of that claim, yet.
As for the offer to deliver to Brodhead, that would be nice - maybe I'll
touch base with you next June, if they still have a good price. Or if
you're willing to pick me up a couple of sheets while you are there on
Monday (I have a friend up here that's also slowly building an Air
Camper who could use the other sheet), I'll pay you for them now, and
collect them next year.
Dave,
I bought my 1/8" and 1/4" ply from Noah's in Toronto. Nice wood at a
good price - especially if you are American (they charge Canadians
higher prices because almost all of their inventory was purchased in
American funds, back when the US buck was worth considerably more than
our "loonie"). But Noah's doesn't carry 1/16" Okoume - 3mm is the
thinnest they have.
As for the duties to get it across the border, that wasn't even taken
into account in the $150 delivery charge. Any applicable duties or taxes
would be added to that. Really, it's all UPS. They have a system in
place that adds a "brokerage fee" to anything they ship across the
border. I remember a few years ago I ordered the set of Tony Bingelis
books from Aircraft Spruce. The total for the four books was $89 US.
Then there was a shipping charge, plus the taxes and duties, plus UPS's
Brokerage fees. As I remember, I had to pay an extra $60 to receive the
books ($40 of which was the brokerage fees). Back then $89 US was worth
something like $135 CDN, so my four books cost me close to $200 - still
worth every penny, though.
Rick,
I guess the "free" health care you're talking about is the same one that
charged me $150 a couple of nights ago for a cast for my son's broken
foot (as well as $5 per hour for parking). I won't bother going into our
Income Tax rates. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the health care
system we have - it's just not really "free".
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <watash101(at)cox.net> |
Bob:
if you have a moment, and it is convenient, give me a call after 3 Sunday after
2. 623-972-3012
Regards, Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=146517#146517
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Lassetter" <rblassett(at)alltel.net> |
Hello All,
I have a Pietenpol Sky Scout project that I built and will sell for $5,000.
Fuselage is built and on the gear.
Tail surfaces are completed but not covered.
Spoked wheels and tires per original plans using fabricated 4130-steel hubs.
Tail skid.
Model-A engine is mounted but engine needs overhaul and conversion.
Scimitar prop.
Ribs are completed.
I have spars.
I have a picture if anyone is interested. Excellent workmanship. I could
also finish it for someone.
Thanks,
Russ Lassetter
Cleveland, GA
rblassett(at)alltel.net
706-348-7514
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | need technical advice from the pros |
Did you temporarily add 1/8th inch plywood to the landing gear fitting
area to simulate the width of the sides?
Yes Ken, that is exactly what we did. You can see it better in the photo.
By the way, when building the landing gear we used the method described by Chris Tracy on www.westcoastpiet.com Really easy and accurate!
Saludos
Santiago
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
Now that it's getting down to freezing at night I'm wondering what the
rest of you are using for an engine pre-heater? My airport manager has
a fit if I use my gas fed pre-heater so I'm starting to look around for
a simple electric one. Something I could leave on over night so I can
make my early morning flights that I live for.
Cold weather flying rules!
Gene
N502R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
attach a metal snout to a milkhouse or similar electric heater, put a handle on
top that you can hang from the prop and stick the snout into the oil cooler hole
under the prop, and put an old sleeping bag over the whole thing to direct
(recirculate) the exit air from the cowl back into the heater. takes about 1/2
hr to heat it up.
Del
Gene & Tammy wrote: Now that it's getting down
to freezing at night I'm wondering what the rest of you are using for an engine
pre-heater? My airport manager has a fit if I use my gas fed pre-heater so
I'm starting to look around for a simple electric one. Something I could leave
on over night so I can make my early morning flights that I live for.
Cold weather flying rules!
Gene
N502R
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Gene,
I used to use the heating element out of an old electric clothes drier with flexible
aluminum ducting, then I went to a small space heater. Now I use a couple
of cheap hand held hair driers that I got from Wal-Mart. I got this tip from
my hanger mate who has a glasAir. I think they are 1800 watts and propably cost
about $9 each. I cover the cowl with and old blanket to keep the heat in. The
hair driers are on a timer, so if I plan on going flying in the morning, I
just plug them in the night before. I let them run for about 1 to 1.5 hours depending
on the outside temps.
Rick
N5936D
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
Sent: 11/17/2007 7:32:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Now that it's getting down to freezing at night I'm wondering what the rest of
you are using for an engine pre-heater? My airport manager has a fit if I use
my gas fed pre-heater so I'm starting to look around for a simple electric one.
Something I could leave on over night so I can make my early morning flights
that I live for.
Cold weather flying rules!
Gene
N502R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Del, thanks for the info. I had considered using a heat gun attached to
a dryer vent metal hose but not sure the heat gun would last. Won't
take much more to make a shroud for a milkhouse heater.
Thanks
Gene
:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dlbenham" <dlbenham(at)hughes.net> |
Hi to the group again:
Since the GN-1 plans are not available does anyone on the list have a
set used or unused, or know of anyone who might have a set they would
loan or sell?
Thanks
Dallas L. Benham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org> |
I have a set to sell. call me at home 715-258-4238
Arden Adamson
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of dlbenham
Sent: Sat 11/17/2007 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mystery
Hi to the group again:
Since the GN-1 plans are not available does anyone on the list have a
set used or unused, or know of anyone who might have a set they would
loan or sell?
Thanks
Dallas L. Benham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | streamline strut fairings |
If you have square or round tubes that you want to streamline, there is an inexpensive way... the ultralight guys use extruded plastic slip-on streamline fairings that would work and be a lot less trouble than shaping blocks of balsa. You can see them at http://www.ultralightnews.ca/streamlinedfairings/1.html for example, but I wouldn't get them from that website necessarily. I think Carlson Aircraft ("Skytek") sells them.
A higher-cost alternative are the slip-on aluminum extrusions that fit over square
tubing, also from Carlson, but then you essentially double your weight because
the aluminum struts are structurally adequate themselves.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com> |
for GN-1 plans please reply to me off list at
dj (at) veghdesign.com
I may be able to help
----- Original Message -----
From: dlbenham
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mystery
Hi to the group again:
Since the GN-1 plans are not available does anyone on the list have a
set used or unused, or know of anyone who might have a set they would
loan or sell?
Thanks
Dallas L. Benham
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AzevedoFlyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Gene,
I use a small ceramic space heater with a fan. A $12 - $15 job bought at
Lowe's.
What I do differently is to hang it on the cowling cooling inlet. The
proverbial blanket goes on top.
Thus, in my case, the hot air stream flows the opposite of many
recommendations. Top to bottom. Most heat from the bottom thinking warm air waft
upwards,
right? Well, if the engine is stone cold, heating it from top will cool the
warm air and it will naturally sink.This pulls in the warm air which gets
cold etc.
Unless you have a powerful blow, heating from bellow the air gets cold in
contact with metal and sinks back against the incoming stream. Think about it.
I
get my O-320 warm to the touch in 20 minutes or so, about the time for a
thorough check of the old bird.
Cheers,
Miguel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Turtle deck bulkhead |
What is the general consensus on the turtle deck bulkhead, aft of the cross strut
or forward of the cross strut and flush with the pilots seat back? It looks
like the "last original's" turtle deck bulk head is aft of the cross strut although
I see other have decided to do it differently.
Ryan Michaels
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com> |
| Subject: | Re recent building questions |
Hi all
here are some views on recent building questions.
Re gluing ply sides on fuse, strongly recommend leaving these off till
the very last; also leave off the firewall ply.
Suggest screwing on a dummy bulkhead, in fact if you make this very
square & accurate it will keep everything square up front while gluing
sides together.
I have had a strong recommendation not to cover any structure with
either ply or fabric until the A/c is assembled, rigged, fuel is in tank
& you are ready to fly.
This will enable you to check all control runs, bracing cables
electrical wiring, even a check for fuel leaks under tanks & plumbing
etc.
You may find that some adjusting or modifying is reqd in order to clear
structure from something that moves, this essential step could be very
difficult if the structure is covered.
Then dismantle,glue on sides & fire wall, cover, & paint.
Re questions on gluing on ribs to spars,suggest making an accurate
template out of ply or wood to the exact inside measurement of the rib
verticals.
Lightly sand the spar until the template slides on with slight friction,
Slide on ribs to within =BD inch of final position, coat spar with glue
then move rib to correct position, if you use a liquid type of glue like
West Systems 105 you can wick in more glue.
Some questions re alignment of tail structure, suggest having an
accurate centre line on all members; make sure that all is in line; glue
then taper after it is set.
If you find the routed Tee beams difficult then consider making them out
of two pieces glued together.
I found that the diagonal beam on the tail plane fouled the nut on the
outer elevator hinge, I had to relocate the beam to clear this nut by
moving it at the tip end.
I am just over half way with my Piet & have asked a thousand questions
of others.
I have leaned on Peter Johnson=92s Web heavily & have followed his steps
closely, it really is just fantastic see HYPERLINK
"http://www.cpc-world.com/"www.cpc-world.com
Cheers & Good Luck
Graham Hewitt the 79 year old ex DC3 driver
17/11/2007 2:55 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turtle deck bulkhead |
Hi Ryan,
I put mine behind the cross brace as it gives another inch of room. If you sit
in the fuselage you will see the instrument panel is close and every little bit
of room helps I think.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... |
Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution
today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great
List services!! And pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution
too!
The Contribution Site is fast and easy:
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
In an article entitled "Pete tackles a passel of Pietenpols" from an old issue
of Air Trails (which I'm pretty sure was made available on mykitplane by Clif
Dawson, thanks Clif), Mr. Bowers says of the Pietenpol:
"The airplane was designed to use a heavy water-cooled engine up front; using a
lighter air-cooled engine calls for a longer nose or ballast to maintain proper
balance. The longer nose, with the already too-short rear fuselage, increases
the ground-looping tendency and "hunting" on takeoff."
And this sentence a little father on:
"One builder made his nose so long to handle a lighter engine that he had severe
ground handling problems."
I read these with the thought in my mind that I would still like to go with the
short fuselage for our Corvair powered Piet, to have slightly less structure
(and weight) aft, as well as having my heavy butt slightly farther forward. I'm
5'10, so fit won't be an issue. With the flying weight of a Corvair at somewhere
around 220 lbs it is not too far off from the Model A (compared to an A-65,
for example). The mount could be lengthened a bit to help the CG, along with
forward placement of the battery, and possibly a small fuselage fuel tank as
well.
Insofar as the comments that Mr. Bowers made in the article, can anyone with a
short fuselage non-Model A powered Piet comment on those statements. The example
that stands out in my mind is Chuck G's Ford to Continental conversion Piet,
with it's lengthy proboscis, although I have never read any negative comments
about his aircraft's flying characteristics.
Tis' a good weekend here; we're doing Thanksgiving early today, and one of our
guests is bringing us a new core Corvair. Stuffed with turkey and taking an engine
apart is a fine way to spend the day in my book. Have a good weekend,
Ryan
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pietn38b(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
I have not read Mr. Bowers piece so cannot comment on it. I do have a short
fuselage Piet with a Corvair engine. I was told I would have a w/b problem
so I retained the blower fan, cast iron manefolds and the original alternator
so my engine is probably a little heavier than need be. In order to to get
the w/b in range with my weight, I still had to move the fusegage about 4 in.
forward (wing 4in. back). The empty weight came out to 625 lbs. and it flies
great. Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Well now... another thing we don't need here in S. Texas (engine pre-heat),
along with ice scrapers ;o)
Flew about an hour yesterday. Low ceiling and a bit cool (temps in the 60s
) but perfect for low and slow Pietenpoling. I wore a khaki flying helmet
and goggles, and it was the first time I've flown the airplane without hear
ing protectors. Very interesting to hear the engine's roar and the wires w
histle and sing. I was doing circuits just to hear the engine roar on take
off and the wires sing on final. Wish I could fly without the hearing muff
s all the time but years of shooting have messed up my hearing and I don't
want to lose what I have left.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@
hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an old article |
I have a o-235 engine with heavy GM starter on my quasi-Piete (aeronca
wings), but I'm also over 250lbs. Plane come in at 685lbs. This
heavier engine moved forward about 4" by lengthing the motor mount, was
all intended to get the loaded cg right in the middle of the w/b
envelope. Considering angular momentum (lots of wt distributed further
away from center of yaw) the thing should want to ground loop or be
goosey to taxi, but it's not. Not just my opinion, N-1033B is very
easy to handle, according to guys who have also flown it with experience
in Bowers Flybabies and many other taildraggers, factory made or
homebuilt. So I think if you get the cg right in loaded config you'll
find it doesn't make a heck of a lot of diff in handling, you still
have to do a bit of a rudder tapdance in any taildragger. The amount of
tapdance will depend on your ability to handle crosswinds and have the
plane lined up with the runway on touchdown.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about a Pete Bower comment from an
old article
In an article entitled "Pete tackles a passel of Pietenpols" from an
old issue of Air Trails (which I'm pretty sure was made available on
mykitplane by Clif Dawson, thanks Clif), Mr. Bowers says of the
Pietenpol:
"The airplane was designed to use a heavy water-cooled engine up
front; using a lighter air-cooled engine calls for a longer nose or
ballast to maintain proper balance. The longer nose, with the already
too-short rear fuselage, increases the ground-looping tendency and
"hunting" on takeoff."
And this sentence a little father on:
"One builder made his nose so long to handle a lighter engine that he
had severe ground handling problems."
I read these with the thought in my mind that I would still like to go
with the short fuselage for our Corvair powered Piet, to have slightly
less structure (and weight) aft, as well as having my heavy butt
slightly farther forward. I'm 5'10, so fit won't be an issue. With the
flying weight of a Corvair at somewhere around 220 lbs it is not too far
off from the Model A (compared to an A-65, for example). The mount could
be lengthened a bit to help the CG, along with forward placement of the
battery, and possibly a small fuselage fuel tank as well.
Insofar as the comments that Mr. Bowers made in the article, can
anyone with a short fuselage non-Model A powered Piet comment on those
statements. The example that stands out in my mind is Chuck G's Ford to
Continental conversion Piet, with it's lengthy proboscis, although I
have never read any negative comments about his aircraft's flying
characteristics.
Tis' a good weekend here; we're doing Thanksgiving early today, and
one of our guests is bringing us a new core Corvair. Stuffed with turkey
and taking an engine apart is a fine way to spend the day in my book.
Have a good weekend,
Ryan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Oscar, a short time ago you wrote and told us about your new adventures
using a grass strip. If you think that was fun, you should try flying
your Piet in cool weather. When you've done that, then try ski flying.
I'll guarantee you you'll never look back at sand fleas and tumbleweeds
again and winter will be your favorite time of the year.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Well now... another thing we don't need here in S. Texas (engine
pre-heat), along with ice scrapers ;o)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Thanks to all who answered my engine pre-heat question. You've given me
lots of good ideas. My old Herman Nelson gas heater worked great but
it's now time to use something else.
We get almost no snow here in Western Tennessee but will need to use a
pre-heater off and on thruout the winter. Really envy those of you that
will get some ski flying in and those of you that get to use the frozen
lakes for landing strips. Winter for the adventurous Piet pilot is
indeed a wonderland.
Safe flying to all
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: AzevedoFlyer(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Gene,
I use a small ceramic space heater with a fan. A $12 - $15 job bought
at Lowe's.
What I do differently is to hang it on the cowling cooling inlet. The
proverbial blanket goes on top.
Thus, in my case, the hot air stream flows the opposite of many
recommendations. Top to bottom. Most heat from the bottom thinking warm
air waft upwards, right? Well, if the engine is stone cold, heating it
from top will cool the warm air and it will naturally sink.This pulls in
the warm air which gets cold etc.
Unless you have a powerful blow, heating from bellow the air gets cold
in contact with metal and sinks back against the incoming stream. Think
about it. I get my O-320 warm to the touch in 20 minutes or so, about
the time for a thorough check of the old bird.
Cheers,
Miguel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See what's new
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/8/2007 9:29 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Gene
I havent flown my Piety during winter in the past, but I'm going to try
it this year. I was out yesterday late afternoon for a bit. 37 degrees
on the ground when I left 35 coming back in. With the long undies and
the rest of the warm clothing it wasnt bad. Tommorrow I'll be out
again. I'm finding that radial engine is a bit hard starting when cold.
I'll be trying the pre heating tips in this thread.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Thanks to all who answered my engine pre-heat question. You've given
me lots of good ideas. My old Herman Nelson gas heater worked great
but it's now time to use something else.
We get almost no snow here in Western Tennessee but will need to use a
pre-heater off and on thruout the winter. Really envy those of you that
will get some ski flying in and those of you that get to use the frozen
lakes for landing strips. Winter for the adventurous Piet pilot is
indeed a wonderland.
Safe flying to all
Gene
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
See what's new
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Edition. 11/8/2007 9:29 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that ju
st about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting the eng
ine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min. flight fro
m our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means the engine is
always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel.
I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when co
ld, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it. Almost in
variably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having to open the
throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the prop through back
wards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut
off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the engine to start and I run a
round to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two
or three times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I
landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...Oscar ZunigaSan Anton
io, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
Oscar,
I'm not sure what might help with your problem, but there should be a
fix out there. My A-75 starts easiest when warm. No priming or
anything. Just crack the throttle, and generally with one flip it
will fire right up within 30 minutes of shutting down. It virtually
never takes more than two flips getting it started when warm. I have
dual impulse mags (Slick).
Hope you get it figured out, and let us know the solution when you do.
Check the Taylorcraft and Aeronca forums too, they have a LOT of
guys using small Continentals. I'm sure there is an answer there.
Steve
Quoting Oscar Zuniga :
>
> I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed
> that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty
> starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I
> have a 10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and
> Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I
> stop for fuel.
>
> I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do
> when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime"
> it. Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end
> up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags,
> and pull the prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess
> fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I
> can usually get the engine to start and I run around to open the
> fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three
> times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
>
> PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather
> when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...Oscar
> ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Hi Oscar,
Sounds like it's flooding pretty easily when warm. I don't have that
problem - mine will usually start on the first balde when warm. One
thing you could try when you are flying into Castroville for fuel, shut
off the engine there by shutting off the fuel line. That way, it can't
load up so easily when you start it. Of course, you'll need to turn the
fuel on again before starting it, but that shouldn't be a problem.
While my Piet starts easily when warm (and fairly easily when cold,
using primer), the J-3 I owned years ago would flood easily when warm.
I always had to get a really good pull on the prop (try to get two
blades to go through). If it started - great. If not, it would almost
always flood, and then I would have to do the same routine you
described. It may depend on your mag timing. I've got the mags timed
at 32 degrees BTDC on my A65 (manual says 30 for A65, 32 for A75)
because I find I get about an extra 50 rpm on takeoff at that setting,
but it means you've got to swing the prop harder to start it (I almost
always have to start my plane myself - many people will offer to prop
it, but they rarely spin it hard enough to start it). If you can stand
the loss in power, backing the timing off to 28 degrees BTDC might make
it a little easier to start.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that
just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting
the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min.
flight from our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means
the engine is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel.
I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when
cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it.
Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having
to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the
prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with
fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the
engine to start and I run around to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I
end up having to do this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing
wrong?
PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when
I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
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orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Another good site for info is Harry Fenton's Engine page on the Fly Baby
website. Harry worked for Slick Magnetos for years and knows more about
small Continentals than anyone else I know. His website makes for great
reading: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Ruse
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
Oscar,
I'm not sure what might help with your problem, but there should be a
fix out there. My A-75 starts easiest when warm. No priming or
anything. Just crack the throttle, and generally with one flip it
will fire right up within 30 minutes of shutting down. It virtually
never takes more than two flips getting it started when warm. I have
dual impulse mags (Slick).
Hope you get it figured out, and let us know the solution when you do.
Check the Taylorcraft and Aeronca forums too, they have a LOT of
guys using small Continentals. I'm sure there is an answer there.
Steve
Quoting Oscar Zuniga :
>
> I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed
> that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty
> starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I
> have a 10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and
> Castroville, which means the engine is always fully warmed up when I
> stop for fuel.
>
> I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do
> when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime"
> it. Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end
> up having to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags,
> and pull the prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess
> fuel. Then with fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I
> can usually get the engine to start and I run around to open the
> fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do this two or three
> times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
>
> PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather
> when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...Oscar
> ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at
> http://www.flysquirrel.net
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
I had the same problem with the Taylorcraft. What cured it for me was to
slightly crack the thottle and start with the impulse mag only instead of
both mags. That retarded the spark a bit and made for an easier start.
Dave
At 08:37 AM 11/19/2007, you wrote:
>I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed that
>just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty starting the
>engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a 10 min. flight
>from our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which means the engine
>is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel.
>
>I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do when
>cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it. Almost
>invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having to open
>the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the prop through
>backwards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with fuel valve still
>shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the engine to start and I
>run around to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I end up having to do
>this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
>
>PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather when I
>landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
No impulse on either of my mags, so starting on one won't retard the timing
. It sounds like the best thing for me to try is to shut down the engine b
y shutting off the fuel and letting it run till it quits, then shutting off
the ignition. And there is no idle cutoff on the Stromberg, of course.
It's all fun and it's good exercise for me ;o) As far as pre-heating the p
ilot, there is no need when you are hand-propping and the engine isn't star
ting right away ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
So I take it that you are shutting the engine now by just cutting off the
mags? I would definitely expect you to have flooding problems doing that.
You really don't have an impulse coupling? I would suspect that you would
have a hell of a time hand propping every time you start it unless you
retarded the timing so far that you had no power.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:37 AM
To: Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
No impulse on either of my mags, so starting on one won't retard the
timing. It sounds like the best thing for me to try is to shut down the
engine by shutting off the fuel and letting it run till it quits, then
shutting off the ignition. And there is no idle cutoff on the Stromberg, of
course.
It's all fun and it's good exercise for me ;o) As far as pre-heating the
pilot, there is no need when you are hand-propping and the engine isn't
starting right away ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
Brian wrote-
>So I take it that you are shutting the engine now by just cutting off the
>mags? I would definitely expect you to have flooding problems doing that.
Yup; my bad. But I'll be going to the fuel shutoff routine from now on to
see if that helps.>You really don't have an impulse coupling?
Nope. And the engine starts right up when cold, using the standard drill.
>I would suspect that you would have a hell of a time hand propping
Nope. Coming out of the hangar it's mags cold, fuel on, throttle cracked,
pull it through 6-8 blades, mags hot, starts on the next 1-2 pulls with the
"slight upswing, then pull down" motion that Edwin and others have mention
ed on this list. But warm starts are another matter.
>unless you retarded the timing so far that you had no power.
Oh, I have plenty of power alright. The A65 runs very strong. The timing
on the mags was done shortly after I first got the airplane when we were ha
ving difficulty starting it and found some problems with the harnesses. I
had both mags gone through and timed and we reworked some of the ignition l
eads. I had thought of replacing my left mag with one with impulse couplin
g, and also thought of replacing the whole ignition system with a new dual
Slick setup, but Corky and practicality talked me out of it with the "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. So I have a Bendix-Scintilla "lunch
box" on the right and a Bendix S4N on the left, new harnesses on both, and
new Autolite UREM-40E plugs all around. Really no ignition problems and no
lack of power.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebs
ite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | starting the warm A65 |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
How else can you shut off an A65? None of them have an idle cutoff.
Shutting off the mags is standard procedure. Shouldn't cause flooding
problems, but these old engines are like old dogs - all have
personalities and quirks.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
So I take it that you are shutting the engine now by just cutting off
the mags? I would definitely expect you to have flooding problems doing
that.
You really don't have an impulse coupling? I would suspect that you
would have a hell of a time hand propping every time you start it unless
you retarded the timing so far that you had no power.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:37 AM
To: Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
No impulse on either of my mags, so starting on one won't retard
the timing. It sounds like the best thing for me to try is to shut down
the engine by shutting off the fuel and letting it run till it quits,
then shutting off the ignition. And there is no idle cutoff on the
Stromberg, of course.
It's all fun and it's good exercise for me ;o) As far as
pre-heating the pilot, there is no need when you are hand-propping and
the engine isn't starting right away ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | elevator control question |
I am tinkering with the elevator controls on my project, and need some help.
I was surprised at how little play fore-and-aft I have with the stick as connected,
but much more so by how little the elevator bellcrank moves. I am going
to need to change my setup slightly, as Corky had pointed out, and now is the
time to adjust it right for me. I think the stick movement is fine for me as
it is, but I may need to change things to get some negative leverage (and thus
achieve more movement at the elevator for each stick input).
So I need to know how much elevator movement on the back and then configure to
achieve that. Thus, here's my question: how much maximum movement in the elevator
should there be?
Please either tell me:
-- an angle on the elevator;
-- the amount of vertical movement at the trailing edge of the elevator; or
-- the amount of fore-and-aft movement of the cable at the elevator horn (if horn
to plans).
Thanks,
Tim in central TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
Oscar,
I know the answer to your problem. Only cause I bounced it off my
Mentor a few months ago.
AGAIN I bring up this guy, but he is amazing.
He said due to the basicness of this carb, and that it is 70 or 80
year old technology.
>From shutting down with the Mags (like I do) allows the engine to rotate
many times, it sucks in lots of fuel.
If you start it right away , it's OK, but 10 minutes or so, forget it.
Simply get in the habit of opening the throttle immidiately upon
shutting off the mags. This breaks the manifold vacuum, and does not
draw from the very rich idle fuel circuit, on the coast to stop.
Just out of habit, when engine is stopped, and while your hand is still
on the throttle,,,pull it back to idle. ( so you won't have a very
exciting next start) :^)
Works like a charm.
Apparently all the old time A65 flyers know this and do this.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
I do have a question for you folks who fly the A65. I have noticed
that just about every time I get fuel, I have a bit of difficulty
starting the engine when I'm ready to pull away from the pump. I have a
10 min. flight from our field (which has no fuel) and Castroville, which
means the engine is always fully warmed up when I stop for fuel.
I use the same procedure for starting it warm after fueling as I do
when cold, except no flipping the prop with the mags off to "prime" it.
Almost invariably, after a half-dozen unsuccessful flips I end up having
to open the throttle fully, shut off the fuel and mags, and pull the
prop through backwards to clear the intake of excess fuel. Then with
fuel valve still shut off and throttle cracked, I can usually get the
engine to start and I run around to open the fuel valve, but sometimes I
end up having to do this two or three times. Any idea what I'm doing
wrong?
PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather
when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Andy's Airplanes |
I really hate to sound like a commercial, but I thought I'd share this
for any of you with kids or grand kids.
I ran into their display at Oshkosh, actually, and made a note to
follow up. "Andy's Airplanes" is a cartoon sort of presentation for
kids, naturally Andy flies. His adventures seek to educate kids about
geography and more importantly about airplanes. The whole thing has
just got off the ground in the last couple months and I was glad to see
the first DVD is ready now.
I have a grandson who is 4, and a huge airplane fan. He literally
carries airplanes with him everywhere. He can hear a plane coming
within earshot before anyone else around (probably youthful ears, but I
like to think he's got some sort of specially tuned hearing, sort of
like Radar on MASH). Anyway, I thought the presentation was really
cute, and when I talked to the folks at Oshkosh they were really
sincere about making this a really good thing for kids.
I just thought I'd toss it out there in case anyone was looking for
gifts for any kids who have an interest in flying. I have no
connection to the company at all, except as a customer, and anything we
can do to get more kids interested in aviation can only be a good
thing.
It's at andysairplanes.com
Tim in Bovey
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
When I bought my Baby Ace with an A75 thats how I was taught to shut it
down. I was told it would help keep the carbureter from dripping. (It
still drips a little occasionally). I've never had a problem with hot
starts, though. I just shove the throttle forward as I turn off the
mags, holding full brakes and ready to pull the throttle just in case
one of the P-lead wires has come loose and it doesn't shut down.
Ben Charvet
walt evans wrote:
> Oscar,
> I know the answer to your problem. Only cause I bounced it off my
> Mentor a few months ago.
> AGAIN I bring up this guy, but he is amazing.
> He said due to the basicness of this carb, and that it is 70 or
> 80 year old technology.
> From shutting down with the Mags (like I do) allows the engine to
> rotate many times, it sucks in lots of fuel.
> If you start it right away , it's OK, but 10 minutes or so, forget it.
>
> Simply get in the habit of opening the throttle immidiately upon
> shutting off the mags. This breaks the manifold vacuum, and does not
> draw from the very rich idle fuel circuit, on the coast to stop.
> Just out of habit, when engine is stopped, and while your hand is
> still on the throttle,,,pull it back to idle. ( so you won't have a
> very exciting next start) :^)
>
> Works like a charm.
>
> Apparently all the old time A65 flyers know this and do this.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
I second that! Since I'm definately not a "motor head" I refer to Harry's
site anytime I have a question. It's packed full of good info and he will
answer all questions, just give him some time to get back to you.
Oscar does have a good point for those of you that may get a tad cold while
flying. Just stop and flip the prop for a while. Works every time.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
>
>
> Another good site for info is Harry Fenton's Engine page on the Fly Baby
> website. Harry worked for Slick Magnetos for years and knows more about
> small Continentals than anyone else I know. His website makes for great
> reading: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/engines.htm
>
> Jack Phillips
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
Oscar,
Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water
from your breather?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65
PS- I noticed drops of moisture dripping from my crankcase breather
when I landed for fuel, too. Not sure what's up with that...
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
11/8/2007 9:29 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Dick,
I would love to have that radial engine on my plane! Sure is a sweet
sounding engine. Max, on this list, has been talking about buying one
for his Piet and I sure hope he does so I can go by and fondle it once
in a while. I can only repeat what I've read and been told by those
that know engines but one of the things I believe in is never starting a
cold aircraft engine in temps below 45 degrees without preheating. The
oil just becomes too thick. What kind of temps were you showing while
in flight? Do you have any way to control the engine oil temps?
I find that dressing in layers works well for me (makes it a little
harder to get in and out of the plane) and as long as I have my pant
legs tucked into my boots and good gloves on I can remain comfortable in
most temps. The gloves I like best are a pair of motorcycle gloves that
extend up my wrist and my coat sleeves tuck inside. There is a lot of
snow machine clothes that work very well also. I'm considering
covering the front cockpit and that will stop a lot of the air coming in
around the feet.
I built my preheater tonight. A heat gun and a 4' piece of expandable
3" metal duct (it will expand up to 8' if I want more length) that I
bought at Lowes. As a test I ran it on high and right away the outlet
end of the duct started climbing past 250 degrees, then I turned it on
low and it ran at a study 150 degrees temp. Really don't think I'll
need to ever run it on high. I used the heat gun because I had it.
Now all I have to do is wait for some cool weather (in the high 60's
here today).
There is a HUGH interest in your radial here on this list. Please keep
us all up to date and some photos would be great.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Gene
I havent flown my Piety during winter in the past, but I'm going to
try it this year. I was out yesterday late afternoon for a bit. 37
degrees on the ground when I left 35 coming back in. With the long
undies and the rest of the warm clothing it wasnt bad. Tommorrow I'll
be out again. I'm finding that radial engine is a bit hard starting
when cold. I'll be trying the pre heating tips in this thread.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | drips from the breather |
>Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water f
rom your breather?
Absolutely none. Fuel drips onto the concrete evaporate almost instantly a
nd these were definitely creating wet spots on the concrete. I put some on
my finger and it was water. Of course, I also had prodigious amounts of "
sweat" on the upper end of my carb and the intake runners close to it, so I
know it was condensation, just not sure why it was coming out the crankcas
e breather.
Walt, Ben, and others- thanks a million for the engine shutdown/restart tip
. I can't wait to give it a try!Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildra
gs@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: drips from the breather |
Oscar, I get condensation drips from my breather too...
Ben in humid Florida
scar Zuniga wrote:
> >Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water
> from your breather?
>
> Absolutely none. Fuel drips onto the concrete evaporate almost
> instantly and these were definitely creating wet spots on the
> concrete. I put some on my finger and it was water. Of course, I
> also had prodigious amounts of "sweat" on the upper end of my carb and
> the intake runners close to it, so I know it was condensation, just
> not sure why it was coming out the crankcase breather.
>
> Walt, Ben, and others- thanks a million for the engine
> shutdown/restart tip. I can't wait to give it a try!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | drips from the breather |
It is normal to get water vapor out of the breather. I don't know how
common it is to get enough to cause drips, but it would certainly not
surprise me. We have all seen water dripping out of car tailpipes in cold
weather. Water is a byproduct of combustion. Most of what comes out your
breather is combustion blowby that gets past the rings.
One of the reasons that you want to be sure that your oil gets up to at
least 212 degrees is to boil the water out of it. Keep in mind that is 212
at some point in the oil flow. It is not necessarilly that hot where your
oil temp probe is. That is also the reason that for engines in short term
storage the manufacturers recommend that you run them so often, not just for
a few minutes, but until the oil temp gets to the operating range.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben
Charvet
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drips from the breather
Oscar, I get condensation drips from my breather too...
Ben in humid Florida
scar Zuniga wrote:
> >Any chance it's fuel coming from your carb due to flooding and not water
> from your breather?
>
> Absolutely none. Fuel drips onto the concrete evaporate almost
> instantly and these were definitely creating wet spots on the
> concrete. I put some on my finger and it was water. Of course, I
> also had prodigious amounts of "sweat" on the upper end of my carb and
> the intake runners close to it, so I know it was condensation, just
> not sure why it was coming out the crankcase breather.
>
> Walt, Ben, and others- thanks a million for the engine
> shutdown/restart tip. I can't wait to give it a try!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: starting the warm A65 |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Oscar,
Just a thought... I used to have two "lunchbox" Bendix mags on mine. They produce
one heck of a spark and are nearly bullet proof. I really like them... when
cold starting and when running. Once the coils in those things get warm they
have a tendency to not throw quite as hot a spark. When running it's no big
deal. When starting it seems to be a big deal. I almost always had the same
issue. On a cold start it was textbook. Fire up every time on the same blade.
When restarting it when it was warm, it might go after a few blades or it
might be time for 'Continental Calisthenics', if you know what I mean. A couple
of guys at a strip where I normally get fuel would always come out to see me,
hang out and talk while I was fueling up then suddenly disappear when I was
looking for a prop. Guess they already had their "aero" bics for the day.
Anyway, my engine guy finally talked me into an impulse mag. I found an old Eisemann
on ebay, bought it and he overhauled it for me. Now I have one Bendix
SF4RN and one Eisemann with an impulse. I now look like I know what I'm doing
( some may question that though). Much better and I'll hang onto the other
Bendix for a spare. Those Bendix's really are great mags, it's just when they
are warm, those coils don't throw quite as hot a spark and then the timing isn't
retarded to help you out either for starting.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147327#147327
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: drips from the breather |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I get the drips too. Not what I like to see, but like Brian says, get it warm
enough and it will burn off. BTW I always do the taste test. How else can you
be sure what it is?
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147328#147328
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine pre-heat |
Gene and Ryan and all
An updater on the Rotec; It is like flying a hot rod. It is really lots
of fun to fly. It is extremely responsive. I have 12 hours on it now.
The biggest problem I have had so far has been radio interference. I
think I've got it solved, hopefully. I am still learning the plane but
it flies comfortably at 75-80 and it still responds well at 35-40 mph.
Climb is best at 55 mph at 600fpm Engine temp at 75-80 deg runs 180 deg
and now at 35-40 deg runs at 140 deg.
I tried to do a power on stall a couple of weeks ago but I gave it full
power and nosed up and it settled into a slight climb at 35 mph with the
nose upabout 40 degrees and wouldnt break. I'll be trying that again in
the future.
I have been doing some low flying over the mowed farm fields, it's a
blast to fly along at 10-20 ft agl now that I am getting more confident
in the engine.
I have a cover for the front cockpit, that helps alot. Layers are a
must, thinsulate gloves and wool socks and waterproof hunting boots
also, with leather coat and fleece lined leather helmet. I bought a
vide camera and am working on a mount for some flying videos, my first
couple of trys havent worked very well.
The hard part here is looking at my other Piet, which I havent flown
since August. The time is coming that Im going to have to put it up for
sale. I cant fly 2 at the same time.
More on this later
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Engine pre-heat
Dick,
I would love to have that radial engine on my plane! Sure is a sweet
sounding engine. Max, on this list, has been talking about buying one
for his Piet and I sure hope he does so I can go by and fondle it once
in a while. I can only repeat what I've read and been told by those
that know engines but one of the things I believe in is never starting a
cold aircraft engine in temps below 45 degrees without preheating. The
oil just becomes too thick. What kind of temps were you showing while
in flight? Do you have any way to control the engine oil temps?
I find that dressing in layers works well for me (makes it a little
harder to get in and out of the plane) and as long as I have my pant
legs tucked into my boots and good gloves on I can remain comfortable in
most temps. The gloves I like best are a pair of motorcycle gloves that
extend up my wrist and my coat sleeves tuck inside. There is a lot of
snow machine clothes that work very well also. I'm considering
covering the front cockpit and that will stop a lot of the air coming in
around the feet.
I built my preheater tonight. A heat gun and a 4' piece of expandable
3" metal duct (it will expand up to 8' if I want more length) that I
bought at Lowes. As a test I ran it on high and right away the outlet
end of the duct started climbing past 250 degrees, then I turned it on
low and it ran at a study 150 degrees temp. Really don't think I'll
need to ever run it on high. I used the heat gun because I had it.
Now all I have to do is wait for some cool weather (in the high 60's
here today).
There is a HUGH interest in your radial here on this list. Please
keep us all up to date and some photos would be great.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] Why I Have A Fund Raiser... |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from
the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the
non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once
a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped
off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that
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Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
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And added just a couple of years ago is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files (http://forums.matronics.com ). Additionally, added recently is the List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share ( http://wiki.matronics.com ).
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
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The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a
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List Contribution Web Site:
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Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard" <watash101(at)cox.net> |
Robert:
anything on the pics yet?
give me a call when you get a chance, we will work something out.
Just want to make sure T88 and Spruce are a part of the package, and workmanship
as well.
Have a safe Holiday!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147590#147590
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Get the Lead Out - NOT !! |
Friends of the Earth want to remove the relatively
small amounts of lead from all Av gas:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1000-full.html#196596
EPA's Notice of Petition For Rulemaking
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2
007/E7-22456.htm)
public comment by March 17, 2008
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator control question |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
I asked this very question of Vi Kapler. Vi stated that the elevator deflection
should be at least 20 degrees down and 20 degrees up. He also stated that the
elevator deflection should never exceed 30 degrees. I consider Vi one of the
most knowledgeable experts with regard to the Aircamper.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147635#147635
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Get the Lead Out - NOT !! |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
This is because the general public has no idea what lead does or how it
works or why we need it.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Sent: November 20, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Get the Lead Out - NOT !!
Friends of the Earth want to remove the relatively
small amounts of lead from all Av gas:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1000-full.html#196596
EPA's Notice of Petition For Rulemaking
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20071800/edocket.access.gpo
.gov/2007/E7-22456.htm)
public comment by March 17, 2008
________________________________
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300000000
0
1> and top money wasters
<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolt
o
p00030000000002> of 2007.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | elevator control question |
Speaking hypothetically (based on geometry of the elevator horns and locati
on relative to the pivot point), with 20 degrees of travel up and down the
bellcrank connection point will travel 2-1/2" from stop to stop. I measure
d it on 41CC and I have closer to 3" total travel of the bellcrank.
Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://w
ww.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator control question |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
During the Broadhead Pietenpol Fly-in last summer Ken Perkins presented a fantastic
demonstration on his method for constructing elevator, aileron, and rudder
horns. He has also devised a method for removing the slack in the elevator
cables. One change that I made to my elevator horns was to lengthen the horn
so that both cable connection points are in-line and of equal distance from the
pivot point of the elevator hinge. Many Piet builders have also modified the
location of the elevator bellcrank pivot.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=147797#147797
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | FW: View The Video |
I normally don't pass on emails like this, but this is just about the
wildest thing I have ever seen in aviation. Hmmm, where is the closest
mountain?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Subject: View The Video
http://www.mindensoaringclub.com/int2/
Open the forum and view the video
And they say we are crazy for flying airplanes with no engines/prop
Jim & Karen
If flying was the language of man...
Soaring would be the poetry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fought City Hall And Won |
Brian,
Congratulations on your success fighting city hall! I saw the small
article in Sport Pilot magazine. Mark one for the good guys!
Ryan
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Are You Thankful For...? |
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite kind of comments is when write to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its
always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: View The Video |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Absolutely wild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thanks for this!
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Kraut
Sent: November 21, 2007 8:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FW: View The Video
I normally don't pass on emails like this, but this is just about the
wildest thing I have ever seen in aviation. Hmmm, where is the closest
mountain?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Subject: View The Video
http://www.mindensoaringclub.com/int2/
Open the forum and view the video
And they say we are crazy for flying airplanes with no engines/prop
Jim & Karen
If flying was the language of man...
Soaring would be the poetry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Fought City Hall And Won |
Thanks.
Now our wonderfull city council is trying to block a runway extension. See
www.safercraig.com.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Michals
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 11:34 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fought City Hall And Won
Brian,
Congratulations on your success fighting city hall! I saw the
small article in Sport Pilot magazine. Mark one for the good guys!
Ryan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator control question |
Dan,
How did Mr. Perkins build the control horns? And how does he get rid of the
slack in the cables?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator control question
>
> During the Broadhead Pietenpol Fly-in last summer Ken Perkins presented a
> fantastic demonstration on his method for constructing elevator, aileron,
> and rudder horns. He has also devised a method for removing the slack in
> the elevator cables.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Lengthened control tube |
Quick question to the list,
Does the control torque tube get lengthened in the longer fuselage?
I couldn't find this mentioned in the archives.
Have a happy Thanksgiving,
Ryan
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/20/2007 6:34:15 PM Central Standard Time,
watash101(at)cox.net writes:
Robert:
anything on the pics yet?
give me a call when you get a chance, we will work something out.
Just want to make sure T88 and Spruce are a part of the package, and
workmanship as well.
Have a safe Holiday!
I think you sent this to me in error. I hope you get the ribs you want.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/22/2007 9:56:39 PM Central Standard Time,
Rcaprd(at)aol.com writes:
In a message dated 11/20/2007 6:34:15 PM Central Standard Time,
watash101(at)cox.net writes:
Robert:
anything on the pics yet?
give me a call when you get a chance, we will work something out.
Just want to make sure T88 and Spruce are a part of the package, and
workmanship as well.
Have a safe Holiday!
I think you sent this to me in error. I hope you get the ribs you want.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
Oops...I thought he sent that to my e-mail. My bad.
Chuck G.
NX770CG
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Pietenpol is a Chick Magnet! |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
kmordecai001(at)comcast.n wrote:
> Fellow Pieters,
> Pulled the throttle back to idle, and tried to explain to the attractive-lady-about-my-age-or-younger
that I had 96 lbs fuel onboard and we would be over
gross weight, not to mention that the front cockpit headset was back home in the
hanger and a step-stool is needed to get in.
> Dave Mordecai
> Panacea, FL
> NX520SF
1. Don't put so much fuel in next time.
2. Always have the other headset with you.
3. A girl that say she doesn't need to talk (before or after) is worth investigating.
4. If your wife catches you, tell her that the passenger's husband bought her a
ride. Carry $50 cash in your pocket at all times.
5. Good luck! Now I can't wait until mine is done.
MJD
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148055#148055
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adhesives article |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="gbowen(at)ptialaska.net"]
2) if you have problems with gap filling and/or runouts of the glue, use microballons
to "bulk-up" and then a pinch of cotton flox or silica to eliminate sag
of the glue before curing. The flox and silica are thixotropes, kinda like
long fibers under a microscope, this gives thickening without much bulk, and
some added bonding strength.Hope this helpful, and not preachy.
Gordon
> ---
I believe you are suggesting fumed silica versus regular silica filler which wouldn't
help at all. Fumed silica - for those wondering what the heck it is, one
trade name is Cab-O-Sil - looks a lot like little "burrs", with very high surface
area to weight ratio, and rocks as a thixotroping agent and structural filler
all in one. Regular silica filler takes a lot to add viscosity, and then
is quite prone to settling unless stabilized with fumed silica. When thixotroping
small mixes I use fumed silica. Do we really want to add microballoons to
a structural airframe adhesive though? I worry some folks will go nuts with it
is all.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148057#148057
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adhesive comparison test results |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="Glenn Thomas"]I guess the redeeming value in the article (although I will
read it more closely later) is while there is not an advantage to using slowset
epoxy, there is also no disadvantage (for those of us who used T-88).
Is the article written with moisture and common aircraft application in mind?
Thanks for sharing the info. It's interesting to read about things like this.
Glenn W. Thomas
Storrs, CT
There is little reason in theory that faster curing epoxies should offer poorer
mechanical properties than slower cure. This notion comes from the typical properties
of consumer adhesive systems, which may use a variety of curative chemistries
to make them do what the label says. Consumer adhesives also tend to
be formulated so that they have a fairly high tolerance for mismatched ratio mixing,
which can result in tempering the overall properties in favor of user-friendliness.
I have formulated and used epoxy systems with extremely fast cure
times that have equivalent properties to slower set systems. There are a host
of curative chemistries available to the formulater - aromatic amine, aliphatic
amine, polyamide, boron trifluoride complexes, yada yada - all with different
"raison d'etre" (i.e. better and mechanical properties, reactivity, toxicityand
odor considerations, bla bla), and the system can be slowed or hastened by
the selection of more or less reactive curatives within a family and by the
use of curative blends and/or catalysts. Likewise, there are different additives
used in the resin side to achieve certain properties, such as reactive and
non-reactive diluents, rubber-modifiers to increase toughness, structural fillers
and thixotroping agents, UV stabilizers, bla bla. Resins straight out of the
drum (like common resins such as Epon 828, Dow 362, others) are okay for laminating
applications as they are, but for structural adhesives the properties
are usually improved by intelligent use of various additives.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148060#148060
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lengthened control tube |
Built mine to the plans on my long fuse and it fits fine (along with all
other control components).
Have fun
Rick
On Nov 22, 2007 6:07 PM, Ryan Michals wrote:
> Quick question to the list,
>
> Does the control torque tube get lengthened in the longer
> fuselage? I couldn't find this mentioned in the archives.
>
> Have a happy Thanksgiving,
>
> Ryan
>
> ------------------------------
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you ">Try it now.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: View The Video |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="brian.kraut(at)engalt.com"]I normally don't pass on emails like this,
but this is just about the wildest thing I have ever seen in aviation. Hmmm,
where is the closest mountain?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com Subject: View The Video
quote]
Why not go the next step?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEXxkWXncuo
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148073#148073
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The Pietenpol is a Chick Magnet! |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
If your wife catch's you,pleed insanity.I didn't know what I was doing,I
got caught up in the moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD
Sent: November 23, 2007 10:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Pietenpol is a Chick Magnet!
kmordecai001(at)comcast.n wrote:
> Fellow Pieters,
> Pulled the throttle back to idle, and tried to explain to the
attractive-lady-about-my-age-or-younger that I had 96 lbs fuel onboard
and we would be over gross weight, not to mention that the front cockpit
headset was back home in the hanger and a step-stool is needed to get
in.
> Dave Mordecai
> Panacea, FL
> NX520SF
1. Don't put so much fuel in next time.
2. Always have the other headset with you.
3. A girl that say she doesn't need to talk (before or after) is worth
investigating.
4. If your wife catches you, tell her that the passenger's husband
bought her a ride. Carry $50 cash in your pocket at all times.
5. Good luck! Now I can't wait until mine is done.
MJD
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148055#148055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adhesives article |
Yep, Cab-o-sil is the brand name for fumed silica and what I was
recommending as a thixo agent. The canard-pusher composites folks have been
using cotton flox or cabosil for about 35 years making any of the Rutan type
designs. Anytime you have an adhesive not holding on a vertical bond, just
a pinch of cabosil or cotton flox really adds holding power without too much
bulking. The standard procedure for composites "gluing" applications is to
bulk-up (the glass ballons weight a heck of a lot less than pure epoxy
adhesive) with glass microballons then add just a pinch of thixo to get it
to hold in place. There's also some reinforcing additives like short
chopped fiberglass, or kevlar flox that is used to improve the strength of
the adhesive. All these additives are available in the composites materials
section of the AirSpruce catalog.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 6:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Adhesives article
>
> [quote="gbowen(at)ptialaska.net"]
> 2) if you have problems with gap filling and/or runouts of the glue, use
> microballons to "bulk-up" and then a pinch of cotton flox or silica to
> eliminate sag of the glue before curing. The flox and silica are
> thixotropes, kinda like long fibers under a microscope, this gives
> thickening without much bulk, and some added bonding strength.Hope this
> helpful, and not preachy.
> Gordon
>
>> ---
>
>
> I believe you are suggesting fumed silica versus regular silica filler
> which wouldn't help at all. Fumed silica - for those wondering what the
> heck it is, one trade name is Cab-O-Sil - looks a lot like little "burrs",
> with very high surface area to weight ratio, and rocks as a thixotroping
> agent and structural filler all in one. Regular silica filler takes a lot
> to add viscosity, and then is quite prone to settling unless stabilized
> with fumed silica. When thixotroping small mixes I use fumed silica. Do we
> really want to add microballoons to a structural airframe adhesive though?
> I worry some folks will go nuts with it is all.
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148057#148057
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adhesives article |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net wrote:
> Yep, Cab-o-sil is the brand name for fumed silica and what I was
> recommending as a thixo agent. The standard procedure for composites "gluing"
applications is to
> bulk-up (the glass ballons weight a heck of a lot less than pure epoxy
> adhesive) with glass microballons then add just a pinch of thixo to get it
> to hold in place. There's also some reinforcing additives like short
> chopped fiberglass, or kevlar flox that is used to improve the strength of
> the adhesive.
> Gordon
> ---
For Canucks, they are also available at compositescanada.com, a place I am guilty
of impulse buying with now and again..
Yeah, I guess when you are gluing wood or plywood, a sensible percentage of microballoons
isn't going to mess up the tensile or shear properties relative to
the substrates. All the structural adhesives I used to make used fine silica as
structural filler (obviously where density was less of a concern for the applications
at hand) with fumed silica as thixotoping agent, or in lower percentages
as anti-settling agent for the fillers. Plus rubber modifers and reactive
diluents. We generally used aliphatic amine curatives, but the average homebuilder
isn't weighing adhesives on a digital scale, or wanting to put up with the
ammonia blast when you open the curative container (a good way to wake up fast
in the middle of a long day)! But these were killer adhesive systems.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148092#148092
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adhesive comparison test results |
Having been involved early in my career with the Rutan folks developing
suitable laminating epoxies for composite homebuilts, I can tell you a lot
of thought went into development of resins for composites homebuilts.
Hexcel being the largest worldwide supplier of composite materials for
commerical/military aircraft, we had a lot of testing equipment, proven
aircraft applicable epoxy formula data bases and wet formulas at our
disposal to use developing resins systems for Rutan's hand laminating needs.
Have often wondered how much trial and error went into development of
epoxies for wood aircraft pre-dating Rutan's demands. Suspect the epoxies
used by the early wood builders were simply based on what was available off
the shelf, they either worked or didn't. T-88 seemed to be one of those
systems that functioned well even if not optimized for the application. As
to the question about slow vs fast epoxies, the "5 min. epoxy", used by
composite Longeze or Varieze or Cozy homebuilders, this system was never
recommened for structural applications, where failure of the bond could
compromise the safety of the airplane. All early plans for Rutan designs
used our epoxies from Hexcel and only our resins, fast, slow and in the
middle gel times . Rutan/Mike Melvil were very picky about their early
requirements, they knew we had the testing equipment necessary to do the
tests in the lab, saving them trial and error in their workshop or airborne
testing by Melvil (world's first private astronaut and maniac test pilot).
Testing on fiberglass laminates of "fast"(gel time 30 min or less) vs "slow"
(gel times approx. 1 hr-1 1/2 hrs.) formulations always gave poorer
mechanical properties with the faster resin systems, using fiberglass as the
reinforcment. Heck we still had testing laminate coupons soaking in Avgas
for testing 20 years after developing Saf-t-poxy or RAE for Rutan, once per
year we'd pull a coupon and do mechanicals to make sure the fuel wasn't
destroying the laminate. For the wood homebuilder not sure all this crap
this makes a heck of a lot of diff. The structural failure will always be
the intra-wood fibers not the bond between the wood fibers and the adhesive.
Bulking agents like glass balloons will decrease some mechanical properties
of the adhesive layer but the bond would always be stronger than the
intra-wood fiber bonds. IF wood homebuilders get good wet-out of the wood
and the epoxy formula is not sensitive to the oil/moisture in the wood,
their biggest worry won't be bond failure of the wood parts, it' gonna be
that big metal bug chopper hanging on the front firewall or the nut behind
the control stick.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 6:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Adhesive comparison test results
>
> [quote="Glenn Thomas"]I guess the redeeming value in the article (although
> I will read it more closely later) is while there is not an advantage to
> using slowset epoxy, there is also no disadvantage (for those of us who
> used T-88). Is the article written with moisture and common aircraft
> application in mind? Thanks for sharing the info. It's interesting to
> read about things like this.
>
> Glenn W. Thomas
> Storrs, CT
>
> There is little reason in theory that faster curing epoxies should offer
> poorer mechanical properties than slower cure. This notion comes from the
> typical properties of consumer adhesive systems, which may use a variety
> of curative chemistries to make them do what the label says. Consumer
> adhesives also tend to be formulated so that they have a fairly high
> tolerance for mismatched ratio mixing, which can result in tempering the
> overall properties in favor of user-friendliness. I have formulated and
> used epoxy systems with extremely fast cure times that have equivalent
> properties to slower set systems. There are a host of curative chemistries
> available to the formulater - aromatic amine, aliphatic amine, polyamide,
> boron trifluoride complexes, yada yada - all with different "raison
> d'etre" (i.e. better and mechanical properties, reactivity, toxicityand
> odor considerations, bla bla), and the system can be slowed or hastened by
> the selection of more or less reactive curatives w!
> ithin a family and by the use of curative blends and/or catalysts.
> Likewise, there are different additives used in the resin side to achieve
> certain properties, such as reactive and non-reactive diluents,
> rubber-modifiers to increase toughness, structural fillers and
> thixotroping agents, UV stabilizers, bla bla. Resins straight out of the
> drum (like common resins such as Epon 828, Dow 362, others) are okay for
> laminating applications as they are, but for structural adhesives the
> properties are usually improved by intelligent use of various additives.
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148060#148060
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adhesives article |
Never use micro for a structural bond. Flox or Cabosil is structural, but
not micro.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gordon
Bowen
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Adhesives article
Yep, Cab-o-sil is the brand name for fumed silica and what I was
recommending as a thixo agent. The canard-pusher composites folks have been
using cotton flox or cabosil for about 35 years making any of the Rutan type
designs. Anytime you have an adhesive not holding on a vertical bond, just
a pinch of cabosil or cotton flox really adds holding power without too much
bulking. The standard procedure for composites "gluing" applications is to
bulk-up (the glass ballons weight a heck of a lot less than pure epoxy
adhesive) with glass microballons then add just a pinch of thixo to get it
to hold in place. There's also some reinforcing additives like short
chopped fiberglass, or kevlar flox that is used to improve the strength of
the adhesive. All these additives are available in the composites materials
section of the AirSpruce catalog.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 6:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Adhesives article
>
> [quote="gbowen(at)ptialaska.net"]
> 2) if you have problems with gap filling and/or runouts of the glue, use
> microballons to "bulk-up" and then a pinch of cotton flox or silica to
> eliminate sag of the glue before curing. The flox and silica are
> thixotropes, kinda like long fibers under a microscope, this gives
> thickening without much bulk, and some added bonding strength.Hope this
> helpful, and not preachy.
> Gordon
>
>> ---
>
>
> I believe you are suggesting fumed silica versus regular silica filler
> which wouldn't help at all. Fumed silica - for those wondering what the
> heck it is, one trade name is Cab-O-Sil - looks a lot like little "burrs",
> with very high surface area to weight ratio, and rocks as a thixotroping
> agent and structural filler all in one. Regular silica filler takes a lot
> to add viscosity, and then is quite prone to settling unless stabilized
> with fumed silica. When thixotroping small mixes I use fumed silica. Do we
> really want to add microballoons to a structural airframe adhesive though?
> I worry some folks will go nuts with it is all.
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148057#148057
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator control question |
I have his plans as well. It consists of a little different jack shaft behind the
seat to adjust the geometry to keep the top and bottom cable distances the
same no matter what the elevator angle is.
Del
catdesigns(at)att.net wrote:
Dan,
How did Mr. Perkins build the control horns? And how does he get rid of the
slack in the cables?
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, Ca
Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dwilson"
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 4:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator control question
>
> During the Broadhead Pietenpol Fly-in last summer Ken Perkins presented a
> fantastic demonstration on his method for constructing elevator, aileron,
> and rudder horns. He has also devised a method for removing the slack in
> the elevator cables.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adhesives article |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
brian.kraut(at)engalt.com wrote:
> Never use micro for a structural bond. Flox or Cabosil is structural, but
> not micro.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> --
Elastomeric microballoons can be considered structural to a degree as they increase
toughness thus reducing possibility of fracture under shock loads, plus they
also act similarly though not as effectively afaik as rubber modifiers as
crack terminators (akin to drilling small holes a the end of a crack in sheet
materials). Regular microballoons can be used if the percentage is in check -
this of course is limited to cases where the mechanicals still exceed that of
the substrate, and since that is unknown to the average fellow building an airframe,
this use of them is an iffy idea as far as the home builder goes. I agree
that the best rule of thumb is no to use them except in fillers versus structural
apps.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148132#148132
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Adhesive comparison test results |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net wrote:
>
>
> T-88 seemed to be one of those
> systems that functioned well even if not optimized for the application. As
> to the question about slow vs fast epoxies, the "5 min. epoxy", used by
> composite Longeze or Varieze or Cozy homebuilders, this system was never
> recommened for structural applications, where failure of the bond could
> compromise the safety of the airplane. All early plans for Rutan designs
> used our epoxies from Hexcel and only our resins, fast, slow and in the
> middle gel times . Rutan/Mike Melvil were very picky about their early
> requirements, they knew we had the testing equipment necessary to do the
> tests in the lab, saving them trial and error in their workshop or airborne
> testing by Melvil (world's first private astronaut and maniac test pilot).
> Testing on fiberglass laminates of "fast"(gel time 30 min or less) vs "slow"
> (gel times approx. 1 hr-1 1/2 hrs.) formulations always gave poorer
> mechanical properties with the faster resin systems, using fiberglass as the
> reinforcment. Heck we still had testing laminate coupons soaking in Avgas
> for testing 20 years after developing Saf-t-poxy or RAE for Rutan, once per
> year we'd pull a coupon and do mechanicals to make sure the fuel wasn't
> destroying the laminate. For the wood homebuilder not sure all this crap
> this makes a heck of a lot of diff. The structural failure will always be
> the intra-wood fibers not the bond between the wood fibers and the adhesive.
> Bulking agents like glass balloons will decrease some mechanical properties
> of the adhesive layer but the bond would always be stronger than the
> intra-wood fiber bonds. IF wood homebuilders get good wet-out of the wood
> and the epoxy formula is not sensitive to the oil/moisture in the wood,
> their biggest worry won't be bond failure of the wood parts, it' gonna be
> that big metal bug chopper hanging on the front firewall or the nut behind
> the control stick.
> Gordon
> ---
Bingo. It is substrate failure, not bondline failure that is the issue - or perhaps
it would be better to say "should be the issue". As you say, assuming the
bond is done right with a sensible choice of epoxy system.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148135#148135
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adhesive comparison test results |
Mike, little off topic for wood laminations and Pietenpols but if you'd
like to try a rubber modified laminating resin system (off the shelf), that
has some of the best properties for handlaminates try Hexcel's (now
HBFuller) 2315. Think Epoxical (now Endurance in St.Paul) making same
formula. First it's based on a bis-F epoxy but this epoxy is pre-adducted
with Hycar rubber. The liquid rubber precips out when cured and makes a two
phase laminate. Our test, before HB Fuller bought-out the Resins group,
indicated this was one of our best systems. I used it on my Cozy IV, 60 min
gel time, kinda hot exotherm when floxed too thick, but best stuff for
laminates that need to resist flex cracking. Scaled Composites used a bunch
of it for their contract drones work.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Below are a few more of the nice comments Listers have been making along with their
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------------------------------What Listers Are Saying------------------------------
The list has been invaluable in the building of my Zenith CH701.
George R
Thanks for keeping the lists a non-commercial venue for us
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Ralph C
It's a pretty cheep troubleshooting tool with and unlimited
resource of personal knowledge.
Bruce G
A full house of Info & Ideas...
Ellery B
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Steven D
The Lists are an indispensable resource for those of us
building OBAM aircraft.
Bret S
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..all in all it is a great resource if you ask specific
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Jeff D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
A comment on wood glue that's probably not even related to the topic.
I'm using Aeropoxy because a supplier sells it locally. I stopped at the
Aeropoxy booth at Oshkosh (I never excepted the word "Airventure" too
corporate for a grass roots org.) a couple of years ago and visited with
them. Told them what I was doing, and using, and they wondered why I was
using that glue instead of another glue they make that is formulated
with fillers that work better when you may have gaps such as you may
have in wood. ( I never knew about it ) So speaking of filling agents,
there is one co. that is thinking especially for wood. Leon Stefan In
Ks. Looking out the window at the first snowfall of the winter - Mannn I
hate winter! Bring on Global warming!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
Leon,
Aeropoxy by PTMW co. is one of the epoxy systems that Rutan Aircraft
approved for use in his composite designs in approx. 1992. It's been tested
for the long haul and resist to aviation fuels. It's good stuff for
composites. For your wood laminations, you probably find it a little runny.
It's designed to wet out fiberglass laminates. It's a good system and
you'll probably see a lot of benefit in using a pinch of flox or Cab-o-sil
to thicken it up so it won't run out of vertical glue-ups. In any case, the
glue's gonna be stronger than the wood. Here in Alaska's banana belt,
weather's been just peachy, if you like dark and rain. Hope Kansas U beats
Missu, like to see WVU and Kansas in BCS champs bowl.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood glues:
>
> A comment on wood glue that's probably not even related to the topic.
> I'm using Aeropoxy because a supplier sells it locally. I stopped at the
> Aeropoxy booth at Oshkosh (I never excepted the word "Airventure" too
> corporate for a grass roots org.) a couple of years ago and visited with
> them. Told them what I was doing, and using, and they wondered why I was
> using that glue instead of another glue they make that is formulated
> with fillers that work better when you may have gaps such as you may
> have in wood. ( I never knew about it ) So speaking of filling agents,
> there is one co. that is thinking especially for wood. Leon Stefan In
> Ks. Looking out the window at the first snowfall of the winter - Mannn I
> hate winter! Bring on Global warming!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Dave Stephens Piet |
Here is the picture of Dave's Piet I promised to send. He has not flown it yet.
He is a snowbird, so that may not be till spring.
Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Tell us about those wheels. Cast aluminum "snowflakes"?
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Here is the picture of Dave's Piet I promised to send. He has not
flown it yet. He is a snowbird, so that may not be till spring.
Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Skip,
Where's the field this pic was taken?
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Here is the picture of Dave's Piet I promised to send. He has not
flown it yet. He is a snowbird, so that may not be till spring.
Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Mike,
They are Seib or Steib, BMW sidecar wheels, an aluminum alloy.
I'm not familiar with "snowflake", must be a technical bike term ;o)
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 11/24/2007 3:31:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Tell us about those wheels. Cast aluminum "snowflakes"?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Gordon,
The pic was taken by Dave Oct 31 2007, the day the FAA waived its magic wand over
his Piet, here at Hales Landing, we are 15 miles SE of the Ohio river in NW
West Virginia.
http://www.geocities.com/haleslanding/
The pic at the site is over the 7 end looking 250 degrees. The pic of Daves Piet
was taken near the 7 end looking 270 degrees.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
Sent: 11/24/2007 4:46:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Skip,
Where's the field this pic was taken?
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Skip,
Thought those hills in pic background looked familiar, I was born and
raised, (til the Army got me '65) in Paden City WV. One of my Piete
builder buddies comes back to WV each year for 4 July, gonna e-forward
your pic and notes on Hales Landing to him, maybe he'll have chance to
stop by and admire your work next summer. He's currently living in FL,
he and another homebuilder originally from Wheeling wanted to team fly
my Piete and an Aeronca up to WV last summer for 4th, maybe next summer.
Gooooo Eeerrs!
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Gordon,
The pic was taken by Dave Oct 31 2007, the day the FAA waived its
magic wand over his Piet, here at Hales Landing, we are 15 miles SE of
the Ohio river in NW West Virginia.
http://www.geocities.com/haleslanding/
The pic at the site is over the 7 end looking 250 degrees. The pic of
Daves Piet was taken near the 7 end looking 270 degrees.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 11/24/2007 4:46:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Skip,
Where's the field this pic was taken?
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Skip,
You're right, snowflake is a "technical" term for the cast aluminum
wheel that BMW used on its '70s and '80s air-cooled motorcycles. I
guess it reminded someone of a snowflake.
It does make a really interesting Piet wheel and Dave's, being sidecar
wheels, defeat the argument that motorcycle wheels can't take side
loads.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Mike,
They are Seib or Steib, BMW sidecar wheels, an aluminum alloy.
I'm not familiar with "snowflake", must be a technical bike term ;o)
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 11/24/2007 3:31:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Tell us about those wheels. Cast aluminum "snowflakes"?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dave Stephens Piet |
Gordon,
The pic was taken by Dave Oct 31 2007, the day the FAA waived its magic wand over
his Piet, here at Hales Landing, we are 15 miles SE of the Ohio river in NW
West Virginia.
http://www.geocities.com/haleslanding/
The pic at the site is over the 7 end looking 250 degrees. The pic of Daves Piet
was taken near the 7 end looking 270 degrees.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Bowen
Sent: 11/24/2007 4:46:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dave Stephens Piet
Skip,
Where's the field this pic was taken?
Gordon
Gordon, sent the above a couple hours ago and it hasn't shown up yet, I'll try
again. Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan) |
Rick, and Gordon: Rick, I suspect you got your wish on the game last
night. My son and grand kids were here yesterday from Co. Spgs. Bad as
it sounds, I was going to ignore them to watch the game until it was so
one sided at half time, I let the kids have the TV and became a good
host. As of 8 AM Sun. I still don't know if KU pulled one out of their
@@@ and turned it around. Gordon: I don't follow College football too
close, but I to was rootin for KU, but just for state pride. You
couldn't help it with the last week of hipe. Thats ALL we heard. On wood
glue- The Aeropoxy i used was not too runny at all. If I used too much
in a vertical bond I would experience some running of the excess that
was squeezed out, but a simple cleanup took care of that. All of my test
pieces broke in the wood. I never looked into the glue he recomended
because at that time my gluing was about 90% finished. On winter, the
Almanac says the last day of days getting shorter is Dec. 7th. The first
day we start gaining day light is Dec. 13. I start to perk up on Dec.
13. Leon S. with cabin fever in Ks. Wondering how you guys in Alaska do
it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
Hi folks,
Piet list newbie here. I and a buddy are putting one together we hope to have flying
next summer. We recently scored a low time A-75, clean as a whistle inside.
Regarding props: so far in what I have gleaned from comments here and there, a
good choice for this combo would be in the 72-38 to 72-40 range. One poster commented
that a 72-42 seemed a bit too much load and kept the engine from reaching
top revs during takeoff. I guess it makes a good cruise prop though.
Maybe this topic has been covered in ages past, but I didn't find too much in my
feeble search attempts.
Any comments?
Thanks!
Mike D.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148396#148396
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
Leon,
KU gave them a good run for the second half, let things get out of hand in
first half. Mizzou has a good team, hope they meet WVU in NC game.
Alaskans gotta embrace the winter, then sneek off to FL, AZ or HI in Jan.
Feb. If that don't get it, the light the house and workshop up like inside
of the sun.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood glue
>
> Rick, and Gordon: Rick, I suspect you got your wish on the game last
> night. My son and grand kids were here yesterday from Co. Spgs. Bad as
> it sounds, I was going to ignore them to watch the game until it was so
> one sided at half time, I let the kids have the TV and became a good
> host. As of 8 AM Sun. I still don't know if KU pulled one out of their
> @@@ and turned it around. Gordon: I don't follow College football too
> close, but I to was rootin for KU, but just for state pride. You
> couldn't help it with the last week of hipe. Thats ALL we heard. On wood
> glue- The Aeropoxy i used was not too runny at all. If I used too much
> in a vertical bond I would experience some running of the excess that
> was squeezed out, but a simple cleanup took care of that. All of my test
> pieces broke in the wood. I never looked into the glue he recomended
> because at that time my gluing was about 90% finished. On winter, the
> Almanac says the last day of days getting shorter is Dec. 7th. The first
> day we start gaining day light is Dec. 13. I start to perk up on Dec.
> 13. Leon S. with cabin fever in Ks. Wondering how you guys in Alaska do
> it.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
Welcome to the list Mike. Props are always a good subject. I'm flying
behind an A 65 and have a Struba 74 X 38. Works very well for me both in
climb and in cruise. Someone else on the list had a Struba 76 X 38 with an
A 65 they were happy with.
The main reason I went with Struba is because he will repitch the prop as
many times as it takes to get it right for free. I'm sure you will get a
lot more input from the others.
Gene
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
Model A engine fellows, I'm looking for drawings and phots of magneto
adaptors for the model A engine ignation system.
Chet Hartley
MO N920Y
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto Adaptor |
Chet,
My Mentor designed and built an adapter, with Mag, that he sells. (and
he's not in it for the money.)
If interested, I'll give you his phone #
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Chet's Mail
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto Adaptor
Model A engine fellows, I'm looking for drawings and phots of magneto
adaptors for the model A engine ignation system.
Chet Hartley
MO N920Y
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roman Bukolt" <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> |
Perhaps you mean Sterba?
I have a Sterba prop on my A-65 which is a 72 x 42 which also works very
well in both climb and cruise and the price and delivery sure was right.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Props
>
>
> Welcome to the list Mike. Props are always a good subject. I'm flying
> behind an A 65 and have a Struba 74 X 38. Works very well for me both in
> climb and in cruise. Someone else on the list had a Struba 76 X 38 with
> an A 65 they were happy with.
> The main reason I went with Struba is because he will repitch the prop as
> many times as it takes to get it right for free. I'm sure you will get a
> lot more input from the others.
> Gene
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
Roman, "Sterba" it is.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Mike
Several of us who run the A-65 use a Sensenich 72x42. I get a cruise of
about 75 mph.
Also, welcome to the list.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Props
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Piet list newbie here. I and a buddy are putting one together we hope to
> have flying next summer. We recently scored a low time A-75, clean as a
> whistle inside.
>
> Regarding props: so far in what I have gleaned from comments here and
> there, a good choice for this combo would be in the 72-38 to 72-40 range.
> One poster commented that a 72-42 seemed a bit too much load and kept the
> engine from reaching top revs during takeoff. I guess it makes a good
> cruise prop though.
>
> Maybe this topic has been covered in ages past, but I didn't find too much
> in my feeble search attempts.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike D.
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148396#148396
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:
> Mike
> Several of us who run the A-65 use a Sensenich 72x42. I get a cruise of
> about 75 mph.
> Also, welcome to the list.
> Dick
> ---
Thank you Dick!
Since the A-75 only becomes a "75" when allowed to run up to a bit higher rpm than
the A-65, it sounds then like a 72-40 or 72-38 is in the ballpark.
- Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148466#148466
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
I've seen references here and there to steel fittings laser cut and bent by emachineshop.
Does emachineshop have a set of drawing files on file (courtesy of
some industrious homebuilder) which they would reproduce when requested, or do
I need to work from scratch to provide CAD files?
Thanks,
Mike
p.s. I have more foolish/innocent questions to go, this is likely just the tip
of the iceberg! :)
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148468#148468
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Max Hegler" <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto Adaptor |
Me, too!
Max
----- Original Message -----
From: Chet's Mail
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto Adaptor
Model A engine fellows, I'm looking for drawings and phots of magneto
adaptors for the model A engine ignation system.
Chet Hartley
MO N920Y
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 Exhaust |
Gene,
Thanks for the help. I think I'm about ready to start on mine. I have
the old ones sitting next to me here on the kitchen table.
Which heat muffs from Wicks did you use, and do you remember the price?
I don't see any for 1-1/4" pipes, only for 1-3/4". Thanks for the
help...if you ever get any pictures, let me know.
Thanks,
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Steve,
Finally finished up my exhaust. Went with 18" straight stacks for the
back
and 161/2" for the front cylinders. Used stainless pipe from ACS and
heat
muffs (put one on each side) from Wicks. They look and sounds great. I
had
contacted robbinswings and he told me they don't make muffs for 11/2'
exhaust so I went with Wicks.
Gene
N502R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
Dec 1!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, these Lists
seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical
your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all?
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A-65 Exhaust |
Steve, I used 1-1/2" pipe (bought the continental stainless flanges from
wicks) and the Heat Muff is on page 145, Part # EC100-020. When you
look at the picture it looks like the muff is one solid piece. It's
not. You can open it up and wrap it around the pipe and then close it
back up and secure it with hose clamps. It could even be overlapped for
smaller pipe.
I'll get some photos in the next day or two and forward them.
Had a chance this weekend to try out my pre-heater (heatgun attached to
a 3" dia. expandable metal duct). The outside temp was 27 degrees and
in about an hour the engine was warm and ready to start. I'm a happy
camper!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John B Franklin Jr <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> |
Mike,
I used the E-Machineshop.com drawing program to draw the spar fittings for my GN-1
since there are multiple copies of them and that lends itself to "mass" production.
I didn't want to use E-Machineshop for the fab work because of the
cost and lead time, however. What surprised me after drawing the parts was that
E-Machineshop will let you store the created files as AutoCad drawings, although
the caveat is that there are no dimensions shown. I then used AutoCad to
add the dimensions (with assistance since I'm not AutoCad fluent).
I found a company here in Houston that used waterjet to cut out the 16 spar brackets
for the GN-1 for about $120. They are very precise and it's fun to see
aircraft steel cut with water!
BTW, I had previously thought you could get machine shops to build just from the
AutoCad data files, but the ones I talked to insisted on also having a dimensioned
paper drawing, which is why I had to add the dimensions.
I've always wondered why someone doesn't offer all the bracket drawings in AutoCad
format, perhaps they do for the Pietenpol, but I couldn't find any for the
GN-1.
One more thing, looking back on the project there are many brackets that just
aren't worth drawing on AutoCad because they can be easily fabricated out of strap
material, plus you will have to "adjust" them for a custom fit anyway!
Regards,
John F.
GN-1 Aircamper
Corvair 164cid
Richmond, TX
>
>
>
________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com"]Mike,
I used the E-Machineshop.com drawing program to draw the spar fittings for my GN-1
since there are multiple copies of them and that lends itself to "mass" production.
I didn't want to use E-Machineshop for the fab work because of the
cost and lead time, however. What surprised me after drawing the parts was that
E-Machineshop will let you store the created files as AutoCad drawings, although
the caveat is that there are no dimensions shown. I then used AutoCad to
add the dimensions (with assistance since I'm not AutoCad fluent).
I found a company here in Houston that used waterjet to cut out the 16 spar brackets
for the GN-1 for about $120. They are very precise and it's fun to see
aircraft steel cut with water!
BTW, I had previously thought you could get machine shops to build just from the
AutoCad data files, but the ones I talked to insisted on also having a dimensioned
paper drawing, which is why I had to add the dimensions.
I've always wondered why someone doesn't offer all the bracket drawings in AutoCad
format, perhaps they do for the Pietenpol, but I couldn't find any for the
GN-1.
One more thing, looking back on the project there are many brackets that just
aren't worth drawing on AutoCad because they can be easily fabricated out of strap
material, plus you will have to "adjust" them for a custom fit anyway!
Regards,
John F.
GN-1 Aircamper
Corvair 164cid
Richmond, TX
[quote]
Having dealt with a few machine shops in my day gigs, I believe the main reason
is to have something to cross-check to, as it is not unheard of to have discrepancies.
I used to sketch parts I wanted on paper, or do simple AutoCAD drawings,
then hand them over to the mechanical designed to turn into finished drawings,
as he worked about 17 times faster than me. But sometimes despite our best
efforts there would be something critical missing.
One poster mentioned having the parts done at emachineshop was economical, but
one man's economical may be another mans "holy tarnation that's pricey!". I intend
to draw all the parts on AutoCAD anyway, although perhaps the odd hole may
be left out for final custom fitting as you say. TBD!
I haven;t watched water jet cutting, but my first chance to see alser cutting live
was a shop that had a 1500W Co2 laser, and a cutting machine with an 8' by
16' platen..! It sliced through 1/4" steel plate at a frightening rate. Very
impressive.
Cheers,
Mike D.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148594#148594
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
MikeD;
I believe DJ Vegh had his fittings cut by emachineshop, but he was building
a GN-1, not a Pietenpol, and also used some aluminum here and there in lie
u of steel. His website is rich with photos.
I don't believe I've seen or heard of anyone else on the list using emachin
eshop so I don't know if they would have the CAD files in hand. My guess i
s that you would have to get the files from the owner and supply them to em
achineshop directly.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.co
mwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Amyett" <stan.amyett.qdr0(at)statefarm.com> |
Does anyone know of a CFI in Central Texas that is current in Pietenpols
or at least has fairly recent Pietenpol time?
If so, please send their name, phone number and/or e-mail address to me.
Thanks, Stan
Cell 325-456-3105 sbamyett(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
>From the archives, more than you ever wanted to know about picking a prop for
your A75 Piet. And Chuck Gantzer followed up with a post that recommended checking
your mechanical tach with a digital/optical one, which turned out to be
a good recommendation in my case because my mechanical tach reads 200 RPM high
at cruise and I was under-utilizing the engine. I run a Hegy 72x42 on the A65
on 41CC.
============================
In a message dated 9/23/2006 9:21:49 AM Central Standard Time,
Andimaxd(at)aol.com writes:
Hey guys,
I have become a lurker, but, I need some feedback from you guys on props. I
have a prop off of a 65hp Aeronica mounted to my A-75 piet. I'm developing
2300-2400 rpm's. I was curious what others are using with their piets with
A-75's and what kind of number they're getting. I was visiting with Jim Markle
and he dug this up for me:
An A-75 is merely an A-65 that is rated at a higher rpm. The pistons are
different and the rods are drilled for extra cooling of piston skirt at the higher
rpm. The carb has a slightly larger venturi and different jetting. The motor
is timed slightly different. The prop is the only thing that actually makes a
difference in performance; the other changes are only for longevity at higher
rpm. A65 is rated at 2300,2150 cruise. A75 is rated at 2650,2300 cruise. The
extra rpm is the only thing increasing horsepower: if your prop is not allowing
the motor to wind up to proper rpm you simply have an A65. If you have an A65
that turns 23-2400 in a climb you have the performance of an A75. There was a
C-75 which was a slow running version of C-85, but A65 to A75 conversions are
much more common. A75 prop generally would be slightly less diameter and 2-3
inches less pitch than A65, but generally rpm is the only big change. With
proper prop A75 will climb slightly better and cruise about same as A65, but at
higher rpm.With an A65 prop an A75 will climb exactly the same(because it is
the same!) but you could cruise at 2300 which would be several mph faster.
Regardless, in the real world the weight of the airplane will make more difference
than A65 vs. A75. In my opinion a metal prop is far superior to wood in
thrust. Wood has less inertia and better throttle response, but metal definitely
performs better. I like an A65 to turn about 2300 in 75 mph climb. [I think he
must have meant an A75 should perform like this, not an A65! -OZ]
That means
about 25-2600 straight and level. Cruise about 2250 and you are still less than
75% at cruise.
P. S. There was no C65 only A65's .A series was A40,A50, A65,A75,and A80. C
series had slightly more displacement(188 cu .in. vs 173 cu. in.). C series was
C75,C85 at 188 cu.in.and C90 at 200 cu .in.
All that being said, I would like some exact performance numbers, prop
numbers and manufactures, so I'll know what to start looking for. Currently I
have
a Univar 72 X 42, and according to the above I've got a 65hp engine on my aero
plane. NX101XW is a little on the heavy side and so is the pilot, so I would
like all of the potential climb that I can get (Without going to an O-200 or
something!). I think I would like to stick with a wooden prop, unless there
is just a huge amount of additional thrust/climb from metal. Well, let me know
what you guys think, hell, maybe I should just stick with what I've got. It
(engine) would be de-rated and should last longer?
Any comments/help is greatly appreciated and as usual, thanks in advance,
later.
Max Davis
Arlington, TX.
NX101XW (Reserved)
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Metal Material List |
List, I need to order some 4130 flat metal. Could anyone share with me in what
quantities of each size they ordered. I've been to Peter's site and found the
itemized list of each fitting, but no raw quantities, nor was I able to find anything
in the archives.
Thank You;
Ryan Michalkiewicz
---------------------------------
Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
In further information....emachineshop will not let anyone use someone else file
either. If you wanted a copy of say DJ Vegh parts, not available. Only DJ can
order another set and then he can sell them if he wants. So, one draw back is
if we all had established the best auto-cad drawing with the agreed upon dimensions,
we could not have them produced in quantity at emachineshop. Maybe, just
maybe someone can do a small say 5 set run of some parts (Ken Perkins) but
finding them at a reasonable cost will be the issue.
Ken Heide
Fargo, ND
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE:
10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } MikeD;
I believe DJ Vegh had his fittings cut by emachineshop, but he was building a GN-1,
not a Pietenpol, and also used some aluminum here and there in lieu of steel.
His website is rich with photos.
I don't believe I've seen or heard of anyone else on the list using emachineshop
so I don't know if they would have the CAD files in hand. My guess is that
you would have to get the files from the owner and supply them to emachineshop
directly.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Mike
After reading your post I emailed emachine shop and they replied that if you have
the order number of the previous customer they can email the drawings and you
can choose the parts you want.
So if someone has used them and is kind enough to post their order number you are
on your way.
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148651#148651
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
carson wrote:
> Mike
> After reading your post I emailed emachine shop and they replied that if you
have the order number of the previous customer they can email the drawings and
you can choose the parts you want.
> So if someone has used them and is kind enough to post their order number you
are on your way.
> Carson
Cool, thank you very much! Lemme think on this one. I can CAD the parts pretty
quickly (I have AutoCAD and am pretty good at 2D drawings at least, forget 3D..).
Mike D.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148652#148652
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
Any of you guys have same problem I am having? Found quite a few taildragger CFI's.
However, haven't been able to find anything in the way of taildragger rental
planes. I am in Kansas City area and need to get my BFR and start getting
back up to speed flying something with a tailwheel. There is an aerobatics school
with Pitts, but its very pricey.
Any good deals on tailwheel rentals? I might travel and spend a week somewhere
or something.
Have a while till my biplane GN-1 is done, but checking in to it has suprised me.
Checked EAA site, found CFI's, all said same thing.. you have a plane?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148664#148664
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Long fuse and steel |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
Do any kind of approved/official drawings exist for the long fuselage version in
steel tubing? We (co-owner and I) were told by Don Pietenpol that their is no
such a drawing from them. Our version will use an A-75 and wood prop and likely
a front cockpit door for those of us challenged in the flexibility department
:(
Thx
Mike D.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148667#148667
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm starting my wings for my winter project and I had a question about the rib
locations. The supplemantal plans show the Flying Strut Fittings longer than the
1934 plans so that the fittings will be in line with the wing struts. My calculations
show that the 7th rib in form the wigtip will have the rib upright
right over the fitting and its plywood base. What has everyone done about this?
Move the rib outboard to clear the fitting? Cut the rib vertical and the gussets
to clear the fitting?
I getting ready to cut and weld the fittings and I sure don't want to do this twice.
Thanks,
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long fuse and steel |
Go to http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk The steel fuse is quite common there.
>
> Do any kind of approved/official drawings exist for the long fuselage version
> in steel tubing? We (co-owner and I) were told by Don Pietenpol that their is
> no such a drawing from them. Our version will use an A-75 and wood prop and
> likely a front cockpit door for those of us challenged in the flexibility
> department :(
>
> Thx
>
> Mike D.
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148667#148667
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3webLD gives you the lowest long distance rates out there...Canada calling
as low as 2 cents/min...U.S. as low as 4 cents/min...visit www.get3web.com for
details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
Jim,
If you're willing to travel for a few days flying, check out the J-3 Cub
instruction article in the latest Sport Aviation magazine being offered in
Hartford, WI. The article said J-3 solo was $65.00 per hour and the
instructor can't be much more than an extra $30-40. over that.
Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>
> Any of you guys have same problem I am having? Found quite a few
> taildragger CFI's. However, haven't been able to find anything in the way
> of taildragger rental planes. I am in Kansas City area and need to get my
> BFR and start getting back up to speed flying something with a tailwheel.
> There is an aerobatics school with Pitts, but its very pricey.
>
> Any good deals on tailwheel rentals? I might travel and spend a week
> somewhere or something.
>
> Have a while till my biplane GN-1 is done, but checking in to it has
> suprised me.
>
> Checked EAA site, found CFI's, all said same thing.. you have a plane?
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148664#148664
>
>
> --
> 11/24/2007 5:58 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com> |
Hello Group,
Do you guys have thoughts regarding the firewall design, specifically what type
and gage stainless to use and if it is best to bend a flange around the perimeter
of the firewall to use it as a method to attach the upper portion of the
engine cowling?
Also, is it acceptable to cut an access hole in the 1/8" plywood firewall so a
person can reach in there to work inside the fuselage until the sheetmetal firewall
goes on?
I appreciate your thoughts.
john e.
wisconsin
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Jim,
If you have the need to be in eastern Ohio, there is Barber Airport with a Taylorcraft
for about $65.00 an hour and a Decathalon at about $95.00 an hour. Instruction
is probably about $30.00.
Check ;
www.barberaircraft.com
Just up the road is Salem Airport with a Citabria at $85.00 and a Decathalon
at $100.00. Instruction I believe is $22.00. The Decathalon with instructor
will teach aerobatics, especially spins. These folks at Salem are truly fantastic
people! The family has put their entire lives into this airport.
Check;
http://www.salemairpark.com/aviation.asp
Anyway I guess you'd have to stay for a couple of days, but you could gain quite
a bit in such a short time.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148701#148701
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi,
Saw the latest sport aviation.
Just didn't think it would come to traveling across country to get in some flying
time in a "conventional" gear plane.
Its been quite a while since I was current flying, but.. I remember renting an
Aeronca Champ wet for $12 an hour. Instructors were about $10. Had a frat brother
that would instruct for $7... Now a $100 an hour is supposed to be good? I
am 45, that was not that incredibly long ago.
There are a lot of tail draggers around, our local EAA guys alone have dozens,
but heard the insurance for renting a tail dragger out is something crazy like
$6000 a year. If thats true, makes sense why its hard to find them. (Course you
can't rent out homebuilts, and saw that the one exception expired.)
Jim
[Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148703#148703
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto Adaptor |
Walt Evans I would love to have the phone number.
Chet Hartley
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto Adaptor
Chet,
My Mentor designed and built an adapter, with Mag, that he sells.
(and he's not in it for the money.)
If interested, I'll give you his phone #
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Chet's Mail
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto Adaptor
Model A engine fellows, I'm looking for drawings and phots of
magneto adaptors for the model A engine ignation system.
Chet Hartley
MO N920Y
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
Jim,
It comes down to insurance and lawyers. Have CFI/AP buddy in FL who bought
Aeronca just for the purpose of tailwheel training work, because of problems
you mentioned. His insurance cost a small fortune. Best bet is take a
short couple week vacation to FL and get your BFR and rating, there are
serveral options in FL including my buddy CFI. Even here in AK, where
there's more taildraggers per capita than anywhere in the world, we have
very few options with the flight schools and taildragger ratings.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>
> Any of you guys have same problem I am having? Found quite a few
> taildragger CFI's. However, haven't been able to find anything in the way
> of taildragger rental planes. I am in Kansas City area and need to get my
> BFR and start getting back up to speed flying something with a tailwheel.
> There is an aerobatics school with Pitts, but its very pricey.
>
> Any good deals on tailwheel rentals? I might travel and spend a week
> somewhere or something.
>
> Have a while till my biplane GN-1 is done, but checking in to it has
> suprised me.
>
> Checked EAA site, found CFI's, all said same thing.. you have a plane?
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148664#148664
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
Usually the best way to find a good local tailwheel instructor is by word of
mouth. There are a few very good ones by me that I know, but none of them
advertise or do instruction for their primary job. One of them owns the
local banner towing company. One other flies corporate jets for a living
and does TW instruction on the side in his father's Citabria. I found the
one with the Citabria by calling the local EAA flight advisor.
Also check for some LSA instructors in your area. A lot of those are
tailwheel.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jimd
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
Hi,
Saw the latest sport aviation.
Just didn't think it would come to traveling across country to get in some
flying time in a "conventional" gear plane.
Its been quite a while since I was current flying, but.. I remember renting
an Aeronca Champ wet for $12 an hour. Instructors were about $10. Had a frat
brother that would instruct for $7... Now a $100 an hour is supposed to be
good? I am 45, that was not that incredibly long ago.
There are a lot of tail draggers around, our local EAA guys alone have
dozens, but heard the insurance for renting a tail dragger out is something
crazy like $6000 a year. If thats true, makes sense why its hard to find
them. (Course you can't rent out homebuilts, and saw that the one exception
expired.)
Jim
[Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148703#148703
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
Jim,
This may be a little far for you but it is a great place. Red Stewart Field
in Waynesville OH. Cub or Champ $52/hour Instructor $30/hour.
Check out the history, Red Stewart was quite a pilot.
The only kicker is you can't solo, only fly with an instructor, unless you
have renters hull insurance.
http://www.stewartsaircraft.net/
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: jimd <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 11/26/2007 5:30:37 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>
>
> Any of you guys have same problem I am having? Found quite a few
taildragger CFI's. However, haven't been able to find anything in the way
of taildragger rental planes. I am in Kansas City area and need to get my
BFR and start getting back up to speed flying something with a tailwheel.
There is an aerobatics school with Pitts, but its very pricey.
>
> Any good deals on tailwheel rentals? I might travel and spend a week
somewhere or something.
>
> Have a while till my biplane GN-1 is done, but checking in to it has
suprised me.
>
> Checked EAA site, found CFI's, all said same thing.. you have a plane?
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148664#148664
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt |
Dralle?
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system
development as well.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for
List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage! This entire system is protected
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assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking
of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One
month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Last year I added another rack to
house the MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first
rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is
supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
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Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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(Please include your email address on the check!)
There are some great gifts available with qualifying Contribution levels too!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi Rick...I don't know what everyone else is doing but I ended up figureing
this out the hard way. I had to move the 7th rib outboard just enough to
clear the strut fitting, about 1/2", and then relieved the rib upright just
enough to let the fitting slide through the slot, my ribs have the 1" spar
slots and I have 3/4" spars so the plywood reinforceing was not a problem
for me. Then I had to reposition all the other ribs so that I didn't have
one odd spaced rib. It ended up being pretty time consuming figuring it all
out and getting everything repositioned. I referenced the Britt's wing
drawings before doing all this and couldn't figure out why they had moved
the strut fitting outboard by 3". Well, I do now, By doing so the fitting
falls between the ribs. I wanted to build as close to the plans as I could
so I didn't want to make the struts longer than plans but it's probably a
good idea to do so. Hope this helps and I will be interested to hear how
others on the list dealt with this. Ed G. W. Coast Fl.
>From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "pietenpol-list"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Location
>Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:17:10 -0600
>
>I'm starting my wings for my winter project and I had a question about the
>rib locations. The supplemantal plans show the Flying Strut Fittings longer
>than the 1934 plans so that the fittings will be in line with the wing
>struts. My calculations show that the 7th rib in form the wigtip will have
>the rib upright right over the fitting and its plywood base. What has
>everyone done about this? Move the rib outboard to clear the fitting? Cut
>the rib vertical and the gussets to clear the fitting?
>
>I getting ready to cut and weld the fittings and I sure don't want to do
>this twice.
>
>Thanks,
>Rick Schreiber
>Valparaiso, IN
>
>Richard Schreiber
>lmforge(at)earthlink.net
>Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
When our daughter decided she wanted to fly we found an ag pilot that had a
good reputation and he worked out just great. My landlord at the airport is
one also and let me tell you these guys are good. not the cracy daredevil
typs that hollywood portrays. Steve S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Ed:
I drafted the layout of the spar, struts and ribs in autocad and came up
with the same problem you ran into. The inboard edge of the 7th rib is only
1/2" from the center bolt on the flying strut fittings. If you make the
fittings line up with the struts, that puts the rib vertical directly over
the fitting and its 1/8" plywood backers.
I have a 3/4" spar also, but my ribs have a 3/4" rib slot. If I relieve the
upright I would have nothing left. What I thought I could do is on the two
ribs in question, remove the uprights and just relocate them to fit over
the spar, the plywood and the fitting. I could then do as you suggested
move the rib a little outboard and/or the attachment of the strut inboard
1/2" or so to allow for clearance of the bolt and the compression struts. I
don't want to move the rib too far outboard, as moving the rib decreases
the length of the ailerons. Moving the strut inboard may compromise the
strength of the wing, though I assume others have done this without a
problem.
I was just wondering what everyone else has done with this and was
surprised to not see anything about it on the list, unless I just couldn't
find it.
Thanks,
Rick Schreiber
In chilly NW Indiana
> [Original Message]
> From: Ed G. <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 11/27/2007 6:14:18 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rib Location
>
>
> Hi Rick...I don't know what everyone else is doing but I ended up
figureing
> this out the hard way. I had to move the 7th rib outboard just enough to
> clear the strut fitting, about 1/2", and then relieved the rib upright
just
> enough to let the fitting slide through the slot, my ribs have the 1"
spar
> slots and I have 3/4" spars so the plywood reinforceing was not a problem
> for me. Then I had to reposition all the other ribs so that I didn't have
> one odd spaced rib. It ended up being pretty time consuming figuring it
all
> out and getting everything repositioned. I referenced the Britt's wing
> drawings before doing all this and couldn't figure out why they had moved
> the strut fitting outboard by 3". Well, I do now, By doing so the fitting
> falls between the ribs. I wanted to build as close to the plans as I
could
> so I didn't want to make the struts longer than plans but it's probably a
> good idea to do so. Hope this helps and I will be interested to hear how
> others on the list dealt with this. Ed G. W. Coast Fl.
>
>
> >From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: "pietenpol-list"
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Location
> >Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:17:10 -0600
> >
> >I'm starting my wings for my winter project and I had a question about
the
> >rib locations. The supplemantal plans show the Flying Strut Fittings
longer
> >than the 1934 plans so that the fittings will be in line with the wing
> >struts. My calculations show that the 7th rib in form the wigtip will
have
> >the rib upright right over the fitting and its plywood base. What has
> >everyone done about this? Move the rib outboard to clear the fitting?
Cut
> >the rib vertical and the gussets to clear the fitting?
> >
> >I getting ready to cut and weld the fittings and I sure don't want to do
> >this twice.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Rick Schreiber
> >Valparaiso, IN
> >
> >Richard Schreiber
> >lmforge(at)earthlink.net
> >Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
> Its been quite a while since I was current flying, but.. I remember
> renting an Aeronca Champ wet for $12 an hour. Instructors were about $10.
> Had a frat brother that would instruct for $7... Now a $100 an hour is
> supposed to be good? I am 45, that was not that incredibly long ago.
It sounds as if it was 20-30 years ago anyhow, and with that, "entry level"
homes (in California) were $19-23k; mogas was 35-69 a gallon; minimum wage
was at or below $2 per hour, bread was 19 a loaf, eggs were 69 a dozen and
houses (or apartments) usually rented for $100 per bedroom; the VW beetle
was $1,995 and a Pinto was at $2,395.
About that time the gliderport where I worked (as a teenaged lineboy) just
bought three new Bellanca Scouts for $29K each (more than my parent's new
home). The Airknocker they rented out cost one of the owners $2500.
Prices go up. When adjusted for inflation, $100 per hour, wet, with an
instructor IS indeed a deal. That's "only" four times what we paid " not
that incredibly long ago", where as everything else we buy daily is at or
over 4x what it was back then.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes it was 20-30 yrs ago.
New Oldsmobiles were just over $3000, gas was 50 cents a gallon.
They had terminal control areas, not lettered classes of airspace.
Wanted to fly again, as I enjoyed it in my youth, took my first lessons when I
was 12. This is all making me feel old.
Have found some leads on local CFI's with planes. Given insurance, and all the
other high cost things we have now, $100 an hour will probably be a good price.
(But I don't have to like it.)
Jim [Wink]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148880#148880
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
This might help.
It's WAY easier for you to come up with the $100 per hour now than it was to
come up with the $25 per hour back then.
I had to give up flying (as you did) when I joined the Navy (1977) as at
$250 per month income, $25 per hour was impossible. I had a car payment,
insurance, and I shared a studio apartment in San Diego, so there was little
left for recreation. THEN I had to go and get a girlfriend, who I married,
then made babies with who grew up to cost me things like food clothes,
mortgage, cars, college, etc. So for me (as with you) I had to wait a long
time for $100 per hour to become cheap enough to finish my lessons.
Pat
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-
> list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:30 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>
>
> Yes it was 20-30 yrs ago.
>
> New Oldsmobiles were just over $3000, gas was 50 cents a gallon.
>
> They had terminal control areas, not lettered classes of airspace.
>
> Wanted to fly again, as I enjoyed it in my youth, took my first lessons
> when I was 12. This is all making me feel old.
>
> Have found some leads on local CFI's with planes. Given insurance, and all
> the other high cost things we have now, $100 an hour will probably be a
> good price. (But I don't have to like it.)
>
> Jim [Wink]
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148880#148880
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
You have a point.
Well, hope we don't look back on prices now and say, gee it was so cheap to fly
back then.
I barely had the money to cover gas for the J-3 then, and now I am able to get
a plane and have enough to finish it up. Live indoors still, so I should buck
up and pay the $100 or so an hour.
Think once I am in the air again I won't care.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148901#148901
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
Jim,
I was in the same boat as you after working on building planes for 7 years
without flying much, except as passenger. Tried some hit and miss flying
C-172's, etc., during the building periods but found, it's kind of like
riding a bike, you get back in the groove very fast and the instructor is
kinda bored with just touch and goes. Final analysis, set back 1500 bucks
and commit it to a flying program with one particular instructor and plane.
Bite the bullet and give yourself a month of nothing but dedicated flying a
couple hrs per week before you try flying your homebuilt. In my opinion,
it's even best to keep the instructor in the plane all the hrs, have him/her
have you really really sharpen your skills for 10-15 hrs. A taildragger,
with instructor is gonna cost 125/150/hr wet. Go to AZ or FL for little
vacation, fly for 2 weeks or a month solid. You'll feel a heck of a lot
more confident when the time comes to be a test pilot. When those test
wheels leave the ground the first time, there's no better feeling than
knowing (flat-out knowing) you can handle any kind of emergency that may
come up.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>
> You have a point.
>
> Well, hope we don't look back on prices now and say, gee it was so cheap
> to fly back then.
>
> I barely had the money to cover gas for the J-3 then, and now I am able to
> get a plane and have enough to finish it up. Live indoors still, so I
> should buck up and pay the $100 or so an hour.
>
> Think once I am in the air again I won't care.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148901#148901
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
I learned in a Cessna 140. There were 4 of us in the club, myself, a
radio man, A&P and instructor. It cost $400 to join and we charged
ourselves $5 per hour WET. Those were the days for me.
Jack Textor
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
My Sad Story :^)
Started in Jan of '66. Was making $1.25 an hour at Sears, and managed to
get a ticket in 11 months. The Cessna 172 was nine dollars, something an
hour wet,,,and the 150 was seven something an hour wet.
It's all relitive,,,if you enjoy it, go for it.
PS Oh Yeah had to walk to school,,uphill,,,both ways.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
> <Panzera@Experimental-Aviation.com>
>
> This might help.
>
> It's WAY easier for you to come up with the $100 per hour now than it was
> to
> come up with the $25 per hour back then.
>
> I had to give up flying (as you did) when I joined the Navy (1977) as at
> $250 per month income, $25 per hour was impossible. I had a car payment,
> insurance, and I shared a studio apartment in San Diego, so there was
> little
> left for recreation. THEN I had to go and get a girlfriend, who I married,
> then made babies with who grew up to cost me things like food clothes,
> mortgage, cars, college, etc. So for me (as with you) I had to wait a long
> time for $100 per hour to become cheap enough to finish my lessons.
>
> Pat
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-
>> list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:30 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>>
>>
>> Yes it was 20-30 yrs ago.
>>
>> New Oldsmobiles were just over $3000, gas was 50 cents a gallon.
>>
>> They had terminal control areas, not lettered classes of airspace.
>>
>> Wanted to fly again, as I enjoyed it in my youth, took my first lessons
>> when I was 12. This is all making me feel old.
>>
>> Have found some leads on local CFI's with planes. Given insurance, and
>> all
>> the other high cost things we have now, $100 an hour will probably be a
>> good price. (But I don't have to like it.)
>>
>> Jim [Wink]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148880#148880
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
Here's my story:
Back in 1971 I worked in a pizza joint every Friday and Saturday night for 8
hours making $1.50/hr . Just made enough to buy 1 hour of dual on Sunday.
This was back in 1971. Dual was $25.00/hr in an American AA-1 Yankee. All the
other boys at the restaurant thought I was nuts to waste my money on that.
They were all saving for a car. I used to tell them that I would live in my
airplane.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
With all these tales about how cheap flying was "back in the day" we
need to think about what a dollar today meant back in 1970 (which
happens to be when I got my license). Back then, a J-3 Cub on our field
rented for $5 an hour, wet (80 octane cost 48 cents a gallon) and a
BRAND NEW Cherokee 140 was $18 an hour (wet). But what would we have
thought then about paying a dollar for a bottle of water?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find
them?
Here's my story:
Back in 1971 I worked in a pizza joint every Friday and Saturday night
for 8 hours making $1.50/hr . Just made enough to buy 1 hour of dual on
Sunday. This was back in 1971. Dual was $25.00/hr in an American AA-1
Yankee. All the other boys at the restaurant thought I was nuts to waste
my money on that. They were all saving for a car. I used to tell them
that I would live in my airplane.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop0003000000000
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
I bought a Cessna 140 about 4 months ago to learn to fly in while building.
My buddy is a Fed-Ex pilot, and just loves to fly... He flys with me
whenever I want, and I pay for everything.
I figure when I start with the CFI to get my ticket it will all go a lot
faster.
Or, maybe I will have to un-learn some bad habits! Which will take
longer!!!!!
Dave
N140MW
& NX000DA under construction 2 years last weekend!
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
My Sad Story :^)
Started in Jan of '66. Was making $1.25 an hour at Sears, and managed to
get a ticket in 11 months. The Cessna 172 was nine dollars, something an
hour wet,,,and the 150 was seven something an hour wet.
It's all relitive,,,if you enjoy it, go for it.
PS Oh Yeah had to walk to school,,uphill,,,both ways.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
> <Panzera@Experimental-Aviation.com>
>
> This might help.
>
> It's WAY easier for you to come up with the $100 per hour now than it was
> to
> come up with the $25 per hour back then.
>
> I had to give up flying (as you did) when I joined the Navy (1977) as at
> $250 per month income, $25 per hour was impossible. I had a car payment,
> insurance, and I shared a studio apartment in San Diego, so there was
> little
> left for recreation. THEN I had to go and get a girlfriend, who I married,
> then made babies with who grew up to cost me things like food clothes,
> mortgage, cars, college, etc. So for me (as with you) I had to wait a long
> time for $100 per hour to become cheap enough to finish my lessons.
>
> Pat
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-
>> list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:30 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?
>>
>>
>> Yes it was 20-30 yrs ago.
>>
>> New Oldsmobiles were just over $3000, gas was 50 cents a gallon.
>>
>> They had terminal control areas, not lettered classes of airspace.
>>
>> Wanted to fly again, as I enjoyed it in my youth, took my first lessons
>> when I was 12. This is all making me feel old.
>>
>> Have found some leads on local CFI's with planes. Given insurance, and
>> all
>> the other high cost things we have now, $100 an hour will probably be a
>> good price. (But I don't have to like it.)
>>
>> Jim [Wink]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148880#148880
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Williams <7ecapilot(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them? |
I think this is good advice. Committing to the process is probably
the best way to go.
We have flight schools in the San Francisco Bay Area that teach in
the taildraggers that they rent. Here in Livermore, CA we have Red
Sky Aviation (http://www.redskyaviation.com/) that teaches in LSA
compatible aircraft. They teach in Champs for about $110/hr wet.
There is also Attitude Aviation (http://www.attitudeaviation.com/). A
bit more expensive, but they have lots of planes (Cub included). They
both can teach other training situations that you might need
(uncontrolled/controlled airspace; radar advisories; paved/unpaved
airstrips; unusual attitudes; etc.). You just need to find a place to
stay. There are plenty of discount hotels near Livermore. Both
schools tell me that you should be able to get your endorsement in no
longer than 3 days (BFR included). But, make it a vacation. Your
wife might even enjoy it. ;)
Come to the Bay Area for 2 weeks. You can't find much more beauty
from the air than here.
(GG Bridge at ~1900' - SF Bay Tour via NORCAL Tracon [San Jose>San
Fran>Oakland>San Jose] circa 2000; NORCAL has a standard procedure
for the VFR Bay Tour. This is still being flown today)
tw
On Nov 27, 2007, at 11:52 AM, Gordon Bowen wrote:
>
>
> Jim,
> I was in the same boat as you after working on building planes for
> 7 years without flying much, except as passenger. Tried some hit
> and miss flying C-172's, etc., during the building periods but
> found, it's kind of like riding a bike, you get back in the groove
> very fast and the instructor is kinda bored with just touch and
> goes. Final analysis, set back 1500 bucks and commit it to a
> flying program with one particular instructor and plane. Bite the
> bullet and give yourself a month of nothing but dedicated flying a
> couple hrs per week before you try flying your homebuilt. In my
> opinion, it's even best to keep the instructor in the plane all the
> hrs, have him/her have you really really sharpen your skills for
> 10-15 hrs. A taildragger, with instructor is gonna cost 125/150/hr
> wet. Go to AZ or FL for little vacation, fly for 2 weeks or a
> month solid. You'll feel a heck of a lot more confident when the
> time comes to be a test pilot. When those test wheels leave the
> ground the first time, there's no better feeling than knowing (flat-
> out knowing) you can handle any kind of emergency that may come up.
> Gordon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:20 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find
> them?
>
>
>>
>> You have a point.
>>
>> Well, hope we don't look back on prices now and say, gee it was so
>> cheap to fly back then.
>>
>> I barely had the money to cover gas for the J-3 then, and now I am
>> able to get a plane and have enough to finish it up. Live indoors
>> still, so I should buck up and pay the $100 or so an hour.
>>
>> Think once I am in the air again I won't care.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148901#148901
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>