Pietenpol-List Archive Browser

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gh
November 29, 2007 - January 02, 2008

> > >**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's >hottest >products. >(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Like mothers soon forget the pains of childbirth, Pietenpol pilots tend to fly back to Brodhead every couple of years since by then you forget some of the pains involved in doing so. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Subject: Re: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
I will be able to fly there every year since I am only 40 mi. away. That is if I ever get my airplane done. Put the wing on last weekend, and installed the struts. Getting closer. Will post pictures this weekend. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radio
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Yeah, I know. However, in a Piet heavily loaded with camping gear and fuel, I found myself facing a ridge that was 4400' high. I was at 4000' running at full power at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a downdraft. I never did make it over that ridge, but by looking at the sectional, I saw where I could fly around it by going a few miles out of my way, so I follwed the valley until it interesected with the valley on the other side of the ridge and eventually got back on my course. GPS makes such navigation so easy, compared to what it used to be. Density altitude at that time was around 7,000' Are you flying a Pietenpol at higher density altitude than that? If so, what does it weigh and what kind of power do you have? Mine is admittedly heavy (745 lbs empty). On a hot day last summer I took up a 205 lb passenger (I weigh 200) with full fuel (90lbs). We got a good solid 100 fpm climb. OAT was 93 F and the field elevation was about 400'. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Hey Jack 4600 ft? And you call those mountains? The runw++++++++++++++++++++++ ay at my airport is 2800 ft. higher than that. And on a hot day the density alt is 4400 ft. higher. On Nov 29, 2007 7:10 AM, Phillips, Jack wrote: Thanks, Gene. One of the real beauties of the Pietenpol design is the fact that the design lends itself to so many variations, and no two Pietenpols are just alike. Are you going to fly yours to Brodhead this year? I don't know why, but lately I've been doing a lot of thinking about Brodhead and am starting to plan to fly mine up again. It's not too early to start planning - it will take me at least six months to get my wife to agree to let me fly it over the mountains again. Last time, I flew from North Carolina to Cleveland, then flew formation with Mike Cuy to Brodhead. Slightly uncomfortable flying across West Virginia, with 4400' ridges and 4600' cloud decks. This year I might swing around the southern end of the mountains in north Georgia and fly to west Tennessee to visit my mother in Jackson, then fly due north to Brodhead. If so, maybe we could fly formation together. Interested? Jack Phillips NX899JP -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
So does that mean you've forgotten the pain and are willing to fly there again in 2008? Jack "Damn the Mountains and Full Speed Ahead" Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby Like mothers soon forget the pains of childbirth, Pietenpol pilots tend to fly back to Brodhead every couple of years since by then you forget some of the pains involved in doing so. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
So does that mean you've forgotten the pain and are willing to fly there again in 2008? I haven't forgotten the pain of flying home in that wretchedly wicked turbulence but....we had such a good time flying in loose formation from Cleveland to Brodhead I might just consider doing it again. Hard to say though as I'm really getting spoiled going up there with all my camping gear in the comfort of an air conditioned car. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio
In a message dated 11/29/2007 7:26:29 AM Central Standard Time, zharvey(at)bellsouth.net writes: Chuck, any chance of a photo? Gene Here is one from back in '04. I have since re-located the Wiskey Compass to the bottom of the wing, and installed the CHT / EGT in that hole in the center. Chuck G. NX770CG **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Subject: Re: Radio
I have a string tied to the top of the Rubber Ducky antenna, tied to the cabane, because it twiched a lot out there in the prop wash. The GPS found a good location, but it makes it a little harder to get in & out. The throttle is there on the left, with my favorite little red button on it...Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! There is also a roll of T. P. there on the right side of the seat, because ya just never know when a target of opportunity may show up !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Chuck, Thanks so much for the photo. Better than a thousand words! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio I have a string tied to the top of the Rubber Ducky antenna, tied to the cabane, because it twiched a lot out there in the prop wash. The GPS found a good location, but it makes it a little harder to get in & out. The throttle is there on the left, with my favorite little red button on it...Smoke 'em if ya got 'em !! There is also a roll of T. P. there on the right side of the seat, because ya just never know when a target of opportunity may show up !! :) Chuck G. NX770CG ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/24/2007 5:58 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Jack when is Brodhead this year? I have a commitment on the West Coast for the last half of June and 1st half of July that I must complete. If that won't interfere then I would love to follow you up. My Piet is ready for the trip now! Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Malcolm Morrison" <morrisons5(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Piet update - new web site
Date: Nov 29, 2007
I recently switched web providers and have a new web site. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 is the main page. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html is for the Pietenpol. http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Piet_update.htm has the latest update on the project, and http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html has the Corvair engine testing results. I'm hoping to make more progress on the Piet over the winter. Malcolm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
In order to save face...Jack I'll bring the cold refershments to make sure to are just a tinge under gross! Ken H. "Phillips, Jack" wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} So does that mean youve forgotten the pain and are willing to fly there again in 2008? Jack Damn the Mountains and Full Speed Ahead Phillips --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby Like mothers soon forget the pains of childbirth, Pietenpol pilots tend to fly back to Brodhead every couple of years since by then you forget some of the pains involved in doing so. http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Radio
Jack I am building a Corvair engine for my Piet now and am hoping 90 - 100 HP is enough. William Wynne has experimented with turbocharging the Corvair with some success which I may pursue that if I can't get off the runway on hot days. Rick On Nov 29, 2007 12:52 PM, Phillips, Jack wrote: > Yeah, I know. > > > However, in a Piet heavily loaded with camping gear and fuel, I found > myself facing a ridge that was 4400' high. I was at 4000' running at full > power at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a downdraft. I never > did make it over that ridge, but by looking at the sectional, I saw where I > could fly around it by going a few miles out of my way, so I follwed the > valley until it interesected with the valley on the other side of the ridge > and eventually got back on my course. GPS makes such navigation so easy, > compared to what it used to be. > > > Density altitude at that time was around 7,000' Are you flying a > Pietenpol at higher density altitude than that? If so, what does it weigh > and what kind of power do you have? Mine is admittedly heavy (745 lbs > empty). On a hot day last summer I took up a 205 lb passenger (I weigh 200) > with full fuel (90lbs). We got a good solid 100 fpm climb. OAT was 93 F > and the field elevation was about 400'. > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > > -- > Rick Holland > ObjectAge Ltd. > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > * * > > _________________________________________________ > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Don't worry Mike, we can use my air conditioned car to go get all the cold beer (or whatever else) you need. Rick On Nov 29, 2007 1:59 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] < michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> wrote: > So does that mean you've forgotten the pain and are willing to fly there > again in 2008? > > I haven't forgotten the pain of flying home in that wretchedly wicked > turbulence but....we had such a good time flying in loose formation from > Cleveland to Brodhead I might just consider doing it again. Hard to say > though as I'm really getting spoiled going up there with all my camping > gear in the comfort of an air conditioned car. > > Mike C. > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: final rigging
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Hi Robert I just did that in August. First it is most important to make sure that the wings are even, measured to the tail. I used the trailing edge at the point that the ailereons start and measured to the base of the vert stab. Make sure that your cabane cross wires are good and tight. I bought a digital level that measures down to the tenth of a degree. I leveled up the fuse and adjusted the struts so the wing tips are 1/2 degree higher than inboard measurement.. good luck Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: final rigging Hello group, I am going to put the wings on and do the final rigging this weekend. Any of you have any tips or suggestions on getting it all set up right? Thanks, Robert Bush ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: XCOM VHF TRANSCEIVER from Aircraft Spruce
Date: Nov 29, 2007
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/xcom.php tspruce.com/catalog/avpages/xcom.php> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: XCOM Transceivers
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Here's a link to the Xcom radio in ACS's cataloge. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/av/trans_xcom.html tspruce.com/menus/av/trans_xcom.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: good guys on the list and in person
Date: Nov 29, 2007
Ok you guys....enough already! :-) All very kind words and much appreciated. I've said it before and I mean it...one of the greatest joys of this project has been the crowd I get to hang out with... Speaking of my project...today I did the remaining sandblasting to prepare for powder coating the last parts of my tailwheel...that has been an almost 1 year project. That was fun. And I got started on the upper strut fittings which I originally made out of 4130 but have switched to solid 3/4" X 1" pieces of 2024 Aluminum. It's really nice to see those struts holding the wings up all by themselves. Sure is nice to be back pushing puddles and mixing T88! jm ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: good guys on the list and in person I agree with Javier regarding Jim and as I've gotten further into the Pietenpol movement I find myself attending Brodhead more to enjoy visiting with other Pietenpol friends than to see the airplanes. I had the pleasure to meet up with Jim and his brother Joshua this past summer and give them rides in my Piet. As much as I hate to admit it, Jim flew perfectly from the front seat with no instruments whatsoever. He held altitude within 30 feet and that is something I have trouble doing WITH instruments:) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Radio
I acquired my Delcom 960 with end mounted controls off ebay for $200 three years ago. Here's a pic of it mounted and one of my antenna arrangement. They had a panel mount bracket. Dean Sevold's Piet in Naniamo has one. Unfortunately, with the battery pack it's too long to go in the panel. Unless the front passenger doesn't mind two inches of radio poking his ( or her ) back. :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Ed, Any photos, suppliers, and other pertinent information you can send? Ken H. Fargo, ND "Ed G." wrote: The XCOM radio from Australia also fits a 2 1/4" hole and it is shorter than the micoaire and the Becker. It's depth into the panel makes it perfect for the Piet and it has a built in intercom. Ed G. >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio >Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:59:34 EST > >There are two radio choices that fit in a small instrument hole (2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 11/29/2007 8:32 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my 44th birthday for one, but I'm trying to forget about that... But, it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been drooling over one of the really sweet free gifts that are available this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution, but just keep putting it off, then now is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! Rather than the guy that, er, ah, forgot (or whatever)... :-) I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone will feel the same. The List Contribution page is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radio
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I haven't seen an exact date posted, but it is always the weekend before that other Wisconsin Fly-in, which will be 7/28 - 8/3, so my guess is Brodhead will be Friday, July 25 - Sunday, July 27. I'll probably plan to fly to Jackson (or Cleveland) on Wednesday, and then make the flight into Brodhead on Thursday. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Jack when is Brodhead this year? I have a commitment on the West Coast for the last half of June and 1st half of July that I must complete. If that won't interfere then I would love to follow you up. My Piet is ready for the trip now! Gene N502R _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
You're getting soft, Mikee. Maybe it's time to consider a seat cushion on that hard plywood plank you have for a seat in your Pietenpol. Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:00 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby So does that mean you've forgotten the pain and are willing to fly there again in 2008? I haven't forgotten the pain of flying home in that wretchedly wicked turbulence but....we had such a good time flying in loose formation from Cleveland to Brodhead I might just consider doing it again. Hard to say though as I'm really getting spoiled going up there with all my camping gear in the comfort of an air conditioned car. Mike C. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead Dates (was Radio)
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
>From the Brodhead Pietenpol Association website: Mark your calendars for Brodhead 2008! Thursday, July 24th - Sunday July 27th Thursday is set-up day and Sunday is pack-up and leave - but still lots of time to visit! Reminder - EAA Annual AirVenture in Oshkosh begins the Monday after the Piet Gathering in Brodhead. Here's a link to the page http://pietenpols.org/id5.html I see on the home page that the newest issue of the newsletter has just been published. If you're not a subscriber, you should be. Doc Mosher obviously puts a lot of effort into putting out each of the four interesting and informative issues per year (on schedule, too). It's only $16 per year. Check out the website to see how to subscribe. Bill C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio I haven't seen an exact date posted, but it is always the weekend before that other Wisconsin Fly-in, which will be 7/28 - 8/3, so my guess is Brodhead will be Friday, July 25 - Sunday, July 27. I'll probably plan to fly to Jackson (or Cleveland) on Wednesday, and then make the flight into Brodhead on Thursday. Jack Phillips NX899JP ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Jack when is Brodhead this year? I have a commitment on the West Coast for the last half of June and 1st half of July that I must complete. If that won't interfere then I would love to follow you up. My Piet is ready for the trip now! Gene N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Date: Nov 30, 2007
I sent this one earlier but it never showed up, so here it is again. ================ Let's see how flying to Brodhead is like having a baby. The first trimester, everything is great. You feel fresh and rosy, a certa in spring in your step, you look just like you did before and all your clot hes fit like they always did. The cockpit is a perfect fit and everything is just like you planned it. You are excited about the prospect of what li es ahead. This is your first day on the big trip to Brodhead. The second trimester, you start to feel and look different. You have some lower back pain, you get tired earlier in the day, some of your clothes sta rt to feel tight here and there, your underwear chafe and your goggles rub. Your appetite is off, sleep is a bit restless, you have to pee more often , and you get cranky sometimes. You worry about the airplane but everythin g seems to be rocking along and now the thought of getting there is more im portant than the flight. This is day two of the big trip to Brodhead. The final trimester, you just want to be there and be done with it. Climbi ng in and out of the cockpit is awkward and you grunt and groan every time you have to do it. Your back is sore, your butt is sore, you can't seem to get comfortable no matter how you wiggle around in your seat. You are sni ppy with line-boys, don't want anybody to take pictures when you taxi to th e pumps anymore. You have to pee all the time. None of your clothes fit, everything is uncomfortable, and you're thinking maybe this whole thing was a mistake. This is day three of the big trip to Brodhead and it seems lik e it will never end. Then you see the airfield ahead. Pre-landing checklist; sit up straight; s et altimeter, check traffic, breathe... breathe... breathe. Focus, this is the last push. Downwind, base, final... you're on the ground! Your baby has arrived and you brought it here. A bit dirty what with oil mist streak s and bugs here and there, candy wrappers and empty water bottles in the co ckpit, headset and wires tangled around things, but you'll clean it up and it will be just fine. You're finally there and people are gathering around you and the airplane to see what you've got. And you've got the prettiest baby in the world. Your back is still sore, your butt is still sore, you REALLY have to pee... but you made it to Brodhead! ;o) (PS, I've never had a baby nor been to Brodhead, but I know people who have !)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http:/ /www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Radio
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Rick, It will all depend on how long your runway is, and how heavy your Pietenpol. Piet's are not renowned for short field performance. They are a product of the midwest, where fields are large and flat, and trees are small and scarce. In places like North Carolina and Colorado where the land is hilly and the trees are numerous and tall, takeoff performance can become a concern. My home field has a 2000' runway with enough of a slope that all takeoffs are downhill, no matter which way the wind is blowing, and with 100' tall trees at the end. A downwind takeoff on a hot day becomes a botany study, and several times I've had to navigate off the runway centerline a little to go through a slightly lower gap between the trees. I have never even tried to carry a passenger off that strip in my Pietenpol. I'll take it to Sanford (TTA) with its 6,000' runway with wide open approaches for any rides Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Radio Jack I am building a Corvair engine for my Piet now and am hoping 90 - 100 HP is enough. William Wynne has experimented with turbocharging the Corvair with some success which I may pursue that if I can't get off the runway on hot days. Rick On Nov 29, 2007 12:52 PM, Phillips, Jack wrote: Yeah, I know. However, in a Piet heavily loaded with camping gear and fuel, I found myself facing a ridge that was 4400' high. I was at 4000' running at full power at my best rate of climb and losing 500 fpm in a downdraft. I never did make it over that ridge, but by looking at the sectional, I saw where I could fly around it by going a few miles out of my way, so I follwed the valley until it interesected with the valley on the other side of the ridge and eventually got back on my course. GPS makes such navigation so easy, compared to what it used to be. Density altitude at that time was around 7,000' Are you flying a Pietenpol at higher density altitude than that? If so, what does it weigh and what kind of power do you have? Mine is admittedly heavy (745 lbs empty). On a hot day last summer I took up a 205 lb passenger (I weigh 200) with full fuel (90lbs). We got a good solid 100 fpm climb. OAT was 93 F and the field elevation was about 400'. Jack Phillips NX899JP -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
One other similarity between childbirth and flying to Brodhead is post-partum depression (nothing looks sadder than Brodhead on Sunday afternoon). Yet another is in the preparation - building an airplane to fly to Brodhead is a lot like making a baby: It is often entered into without thought of the long-term costs It frequently requires some gentle persuasion of the spouse It changes your life forever Making it is as much fun as living with it Making one causes you to want to do it again Helping someone else make theirs is as much fun as making your own, and much cheaper Jack Phillips Having morning sickness while contemplating ordering the wing kit for my RV-10 _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying to Brodhead is like having a baby I sent this one earlier but it never showed up, so here it is again. ================ Let's see how flying to Brodhead is like having a baby. The first trimester, everything is great. You feel fresh and rosy, a certain spring in your step, you look just like you did before and all your clothes fit like they always did. The cockpit is a perfect fit and everything is just like you planned it. You are excited about the prospect of what lies ahead. This is your first day on the big trip to Brodhead. The second trimester, you start to feel and look different. You have some lower back pain, you get tired earlier in the day, some of your clothes start to feel tight here and there, your underwear chafe and your goggles rub. Your appetite is off, sleep is a bit restless, you have to pee more often, and you get cranky sometimes. You worry about the airplane but everything seems to be rocking along and now the thought of getting there is more important than the flight. This is day two of the big trip to Brodhead. The final trimester, you just want to be there and be done with it. Climbing in and out of the cockpit is awkward and you grunt and groan every time you have to do it. Your back is sore, your butt is sore, you can't seem to get comfortable no matter how you wiggle around in your seat. You are snippy with line-boys, don't want anybody to take pictures when you taxi to the pumps anymore. You have to pee all the time. None of your clothes fit, everything is uncomfortable, and you're thinking maybe this whole thing was a mistake. This is day three of the big trip to Brodhead and it seems like it will never end. Then you see the airfield ahead. Pre-landing checklist; sit up straight; set altimeter, check traffic, breathe... breathe... breathe. Focus, this is the last push. Downwind, base, final... you're on the ground! Your baby has arrived and you brought it here. A bit dirty what with oil mist streaks and bugs here and there, candy wrappers and empty water bottles in the cockpit, headset and wires tangled around things, but you'll clean it up and it will be just fine. You're finally there and people are gathering around you and the airplane to see what you've got. And you've got the prettiest baby in the world. Your back is still sore, your butt is still sore, you REALLY have to pee... but you made it to Brodhead! ;o) (PS, I've never had a baby nor been to Brodhead, but I know people who have!) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cushioned seats
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
You hit the nail on the head Jack as for me getting soft but that is also precisely the reason that I don't need any cushion under my butt when going cross country in my Piet. I made the mistake of raising my seat 2" above plans which was way too much. Too much of me sticks out in the breeze for my liking but I had to have better forward visibility. (dumb....dumb) Any cushion under me puts me even further out in the propwash. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Digital Scale
Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Digital Scale
Date: Nov 30, 2007
I use a small one from Office Depot that I got for something like $20.00. I don't remember what brand it is. Get one that does ounces and grams. The small gram increments are best for mixing small batches. Also get one that you can zero out the tare weight on after you put your mixing cup on it. The one annoyance I have with mine is that it automatically shuts off after about 20 seconds. That is a real problem when it shuts off half way through adding one part. If the weight is changing it will not shut off so if the weight is not changing while I am opening a can or something I just bump it with my hand every 10 seconds or so to keep it active. Harbor Freight sells a cheap digital also, but I have not tried that one. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Michals Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:50 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Nov 30, 2007
Ryan: Go to your local Staples ofice supply store and pick up a postal scale. I got the Pelouze brand model SP5 there and it is a good deal. here is a link to it: http://www.officeworld.com/Worlds-Biggest-Selection/PELSP5/07Q3/?gclid= CMnahdbLhZACFSQHQQodTH2Jqw I only paid 25$ for mine at Staples about 2 years ago. Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Michals To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: > > Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? > > Thanks' > > Ryan > > * > > * > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Radio
Date: Nov 30, 2007
Sounds good. Count me in. I'll be riding my Gold Wing to the West Coast, leaving here about the 10th of June and returning home about the 10th of July. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Radio I haven't seen an exact date posted, but it is always the weekend before that other Wisconsin Fly-in, which will be 7/28 - 8/3, so my guess is Brodhead will be Friday, July 25 - Sunday, July 27. I'll probably plan to fly to Jackson (or Cleveland) on Wednesday, and then make the flight into Brodhead on Thursday. Jack Phillips NX899JP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Digital Scale
Date: Nov 30, 2007
I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here. They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Digital Scale
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org>
Gentlemen: If using T-88, the easiest way to measure it is to buy two large schringes at Fleet & Farm used by farmers. They work perfect to measure equal amounts as you squeeze the parts out because they have gradient markings on the sides. Much easier and accurate than weighing it. Cheap too. Arden A. Waupaca ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Glenn Thomas Sent: Fri 11/30/2007 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Nov 30, 2007
It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here. They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Nov 30, 2007
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
I bought mine from Harbor tool for around 12 bucks on sale. It's small, so you need to use those medicine cups you can get at hobby shops. They now also have have a digital level for $50. About half the price of the one I bought from ATS (aircraft tool. Leon S. in Ks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 30, 2007
Subject: final rigging
thanks for the input on my rigging question everyone. I am going to try to get it together this weekend, weather permitting.Jack and Gene if everything goes OK in the next couple of weekends,and I can get comfortable flying this thing by the time you get ready to make the trip to Brodhead I would be interested in making the trip with you. I live between Jackson and Lexington. Robert Bush **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Thanks for the ideas. What is the largest amount (in grams or ounces) you have weighed up at one time? Would a 200g (.457 oz) capacity be large enough? There are a few reasons for weighing; 1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a little "tacky" the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it always fully hardens up. 2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape every last bit out of the individual cups. 3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing everything, it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a little more. Gordon Bowen wrote: It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here. They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Nov 30, 2007
Unless you're doing a glue-up with an epoxy with gel time in excess of 45 min., I'd keep my mixes less than total 200 grams. The best way to see if it's gonna be too much is to: mix up about 100 grams total epoxy and let it set up in the mixing cup. See how long it takes, should be +30 min. start gelling up and about 2 hrs should be completely hard, without exotherming so much it set your workshop on fire. I've mixup 500 grams at a time but had it spread out thin on the fiberglass within 30 min. There's a trade-off of gel times and when the epoxy is "set-up". Epoxy systems don't reach almost full cure unless a) they've set about 7 days at 77F, or b) 30 days at 60F or c) you can heat up the laminate to about 150F for 1 hr. Longer gel time epoxy systems give you a lot more work life and you can make bigger batches, but the "full cure" time is extended. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Michals To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale Thanks for the ideas. What is the largest amount (in grams or ounces) you have weighed up at one time? Would a 200g (.457 oz) capacity be large enough? There are a few reasons for weighing; 1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a little "tacky" the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it always fully hardens up. 2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape every last bit out of the individual cups. 3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing everything, it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a little more. Gordon Bowen wrote: It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here. They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you ">Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Ryan Michals wrote: Thanks for the ideas. What is the largest amount (in grams or ounces) you have weighed up at one time? Would a 200g (7.055 ounce) capacity be large enough? There are a few reasons for weighing; 1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a little "tacky" the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it always fully hardens up. 2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape every last bit out of the individual cups. 3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing everything, it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a little more. Gordon Bowen wrote: It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here. They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you ">Try it now. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale??
I never weighed any of the T-88 on my project. I used the little 1 ounce medicine cups you can buy in a pharmacy. The ones I used has markings in tsp, cc, etc. Early in my rib making I learned exactly how much glue it took. I'm a pharmacist, so measuring stuff by eye comes pretty naturally, but I'd just add , say 5 ml of part A, and in the same cup fill it to the 10 ml mark with part B for a total of 5 ml part B. Then mix it in the same cup with a scrap of wood that I used to actually apply the glue. Never had a problem with an improper cure. I don't remember many times I needed more than 30 ml (1 ounce) of glue at a time..probably when applying the plywood sides and bottom of the fuselage, but these cups are only about 3cents each. So far I'm just half way through my second sleeve (100) of cups. *Keep it simple*, and measure careful. Measure looking at the cup horizontally and pour the glue slowly, allowing it to flow out level as you approach the mark you're looking for and you shouldn't have a problem. Ben Charvet Ryan Michals wrote: > Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? > > Thanks' > > Ryan > > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2007
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
I use these more than anything else. I put a strip of masking tape up the side and mark it at two identical volumes, say 1/4 oz and 1/2 oz. Then I fill to mark one with hardener and then to mark two with resin and stir. No loss of either from cup to cup transfer. http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&cat=2,2070,33135,20009& p 009 It seems to me that since they only tell you volume measurements in the directions that there's a reason for that. If the volume ratio is 1:1 they have most likely gone to great lengths to make that work and work well it does. By doing so they make it possible for us to operate dead center on the KISS scale. Why complicate things unneccessarily? Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: T88 Mixing Gun
Here is a couple of pictures of how I've been using T88 Epoxy for the assembly of my Wittman Tailwind W-10. It's a T88 gun with a mixing tube. I made a small spoon out of a piece of aluminum, and attached it to the end of the mixing tube with a small hose clamp. I can dispense very small quantities, and keep it fresh over a very long period of time - by just squeezing the trigger every few minutes. This wing has about a Zillion little pieces that need to be installed...a LOT more pieces than the Pietenpol wing. I get enough parts ready for assembly that will take 3 to 4 hours. I cut and prepared the parts with a very small nail to hold it in place while the adhesive cures. Then I apply a small amount to both surfaces that are to be glued, and wipe the excess off, and use it on the next part. This gun and tube method will be Very handy when I get to the point of assembling the 3/32" plywood sheets to the top and bottom of the wing...just apply the ready mixed epoxy like a calking gun, and spread it out. The disadvantage is that the epoxy in the tube, and the tube itself, will be wasted when the task is finished. It wouldn't be worth wasting a mixing tube for very small amounts of adhesive, but for small amounts, you can simply dispense it out of the gun without the tube on it, and mix it thoroughly by hand. I gladly pay for the mixing tube, and wasted epoxy for the convince of this method, when a LOT of parts are ready to assemble. Chuck Gantzer NX770CG "The Pietenpol is Slow, but the Sky is Patient". **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: final rigging
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Robert, What an exciting time for you. Hope everything goes well. Where are you going to keep her? I'd love to fly down and meet the both of you. As far as Brodhead, the more the better. Right now I'm in the dog house. Last night I told my wife I was flying to Brodhead right after I returned from my motorcycle trip. She didn't seem too pleased with the idea. Guess I'll know for sure when she starts talking to me again. Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: final rigging thanks for the input on my rigging question everyone. I am going to try to get it together this weekend, weather permitting.Jack and Gene if everything goes OK in the next couple of weekends,and I can get comfortable flying this thing by the time you get ready to make the trip to Brodhead I would be interested in making the trip with you. I live between Jackson and Lexington. Robert Bush ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/24/2007 5:58 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Re: T88 Mixing Gun
Chuck You must have watched the movie "High Road to China" :):):) Jim **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: (no subject)
Gene, I rent a 2300 ft grass strip with a t-hanger from a neighbor of mine about a half mile from my house.If you know where the law rd.exit 93 is off of i-40 it is about 4 miles north of there. ROBERT BUSH NX294RB **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Lane" <dslane(at)capital.net>
Subject: subscription renewal
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Dear Mr. Dralle I have been getting the pietenpol-list double, to both addresses (dslane(at)capital.net and dslane(at)logical.net), I recently sent a contrubutuion for the listing under capital.net and would liket to desubscribe my listing under logical.net. You are doing a great job operating this list and I know are greatly appreciated by the subscribers. Thank You Donald Lane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Assembly milestone
Guys, I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Looks great Dan! Maybe my next trip to Rockford I can see her in person. Naturally that's if you're willing to show her off over a brew! John Recine **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Beautiful work Dan, just one suggestion, you may consider getting a new prop before the first flight. RIck On Dec 1, 2007 10:40 AM, wrote: > Guys, > I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my > one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it > feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ------------------------------ > Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001>and top > money wasters<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002>of 2007. > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Nice! Too bad it's getting covered. I consider myself officially spurred. Just got a jointer and will hopefully get the garage straightened up so I can start in on my tail feathers. Keep it going! Glenn On 12/1/07, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: > > Guys, > I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my > one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it > feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ------------------------------ > money wasters<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002>of 2007. > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Very nice. Love the prop!! Ryan HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: Guys, I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Now that is one beautiful piece of craftmanship. You should be very proud. I am just to see the picture. Corky **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Just remember as mentioned a earlier post...Viscosity/weight is different between the two. I would purchase two new containers and weight each one before opening them. Record the difference. That difference should be your starting point between each half. Then you'll have better accuracy in amounts of material to mix....make sense?... Ken H. Ryan Michals wrote: Thanks for the ideas. What is the largest amount (in grams or ounces) you have weighed up at one time? Would a 200g (.457 oz) capacity be large enough? There are a few reasons for weighing; 1.Consistency. I've noticed varying cure times. When it's still a little "tacky" the next morning, It makes me worry a little, although it always fully hardens up. 2. Accuracy. I've been using small plastic cups, it's tough to scrape every last bit out of the individual cups. 3. Ease and efficiency. If you are right in the middle of gluing everything, it's starting to set up and you run out and need that just a little more. Gordon Bowen wrote: It's a good rule of thumb on ratios of resin to curative, for most commerically available epoxies used for laminations. The density diff between the two makes the gram ratio 100 parts resin and about 88 parts hardener, or 100:100 based on volume. Most epoxy systems you can buy off the shelf are somewhat forgiving on the ratios, so 83-93 parts hardener to 100 parts resin by weight will work out just fine. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I believe that the ratio by weight is 83 to 100. Going by memory here. They don't say what the ratio by weight is anywhere on the bottle or isntructions, but they do have a data sheet on their web site that has it. Go to http://www.systemthree.com/p_t_88.asp and click on the technical data sheet. I am running out the door now or would look it up and post it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Digital Scale I bought one here... http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. I documented my discovery here... http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=9&filter=0 On 11/30/07, Ryan Michals wrote: Can anyone recommend an inexpensive scale for weighing epoxy etc..? Thanks' Ryan -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you ">Try it now. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Dan, Is it possible for you to post a couple of close-ups of your jury-strut fittings ? Workmanship looks great! I like the color of your metal fittings and struts. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149917#149917 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Continental A-75 Cooling Baffles (eyebrows)
Date: Dec 01, 2007
I want to replace the J-3 cub style "eyebrows" on my GN-1 Aircamper. I can't seem to stop all the cracks in these things. I would like to build essentially a square baffle, instead of the rounded design like the J3 baffle. What are the design considerations for these baffles? The only criteria I believe I've ever seen is that you are to have a certain pressure differential between the top and bottom of the cylinders to maintain adequate cooling. Obviously that would be difficult to calculate accurately. My plan is to essentially match the frontal area of the J3 baffle, and have a similar downard taper towards the rear of the baffle. My guess is that this is to increase pressure above the cylinders, to maintain adequate cooling flow accross the cylinders. What am I missing? Who else here has created their own baffles, and what am I not thinking about? I fly this plane a LOT, so these have to cool the engine properly. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Dec 01, 2007
I use the same cups as Clif except I don't buy them. I guess for 4.20 maybe I should. McDonalds puts them out for ketchup. The guilt dissipates quickly. After I rob McDonalds I go to Starbucks and get some wooden T-88 applicators, I mean, stirrers. So far no high speed chases have ensued. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149929#149929 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Project for sale
Members, In barnstromers under the search engine you can find in the project page a nice Pietenpol for sale at a very goods price.....if interested. Food for thought on this wintery blizzardy day! Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Glenn, Now that's what I call scrounging! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Rick, Thank you. Yea, I was thinking there might be something wrong with that prop too. This just confirms it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2007
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Dan, Thank you for the encouragement. I really really appreciate it. Here are a few detail photos. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Continental A-75 Cooling Baffles (eyebrows)
Steve, I made the round ones. But for the advise of my Mentor,,,made them with dead soft aluminum. Rolled welding wire into the edges. And no cracks yet. walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental A-75 Cooling Baffles (eyebrows) > > > I want to replace the J-3 cub style "eyebrows" on my GN-1 Aircamper. I > can't seem to stop all the cracks in these things. > > I would like to build essentially a square baffle, instead of the rounded > design like the J3 baffle. What are the design considerations for these > baffles? The only criteria I believe I've ever seen is that you are to > have a certain pressure differential between the top and bottom of the > cylinders to maintain adequate cooling. Obviously that would be difficult > to calculate accurately. > > My plan is to essentially match the frontal area of the J3 baffle, and > have a similar downard taper towards the rear of the baffle. My guess is > that this is to increase pressure above the cylinders, to maintain > adequate cooling flow accross the cylinders. > > What am I missing? Who else here has created their own baffles, and what > am I not thinking about? I fly this plane a LOT, so these have to cool > the engine properly. > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Don't feel guilty Glenn, when I was building my mock cockpit and needed some more wood I would wait till it got dark (so the neighbors wouldn't start gossiping) and hit some of the construction dumpsters in the area. Rick On Dec 1, 2007 3:48 PM, Glenn Thomas wrote: > glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> > > I use the same cups as Clif except I don't buy them. I guess for 4.20maybe I should. McDonalds puts them out for ketchup. The guilt dissipates > quickly. After I rob McDonalds I go to Starbucks and get some wooden T-88 > applicators, I mean, stirrers. So far no high speed chases have ensued. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149929#149929 > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Flight Instructors-a listing
Date: Dec 01, 2007
I recently saw a posting (last week) looking for CFIs for tailwheel instructions try this link it may help. http://www.pilot-flight-instruction.com/ Rob Stapleton, Pietenpol/Corvair Builder Anchorage, Alaska ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dave Stephens Piet
Date: Dec 01, 2007
_Gordon, I never did receive the below message, just got it out of archive. Paden City is just up the river from us. Have your friend stop by. Skip_______________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>

Subject: Re: e Stephens Piet

Date: - - - , 20-
Skip, Thought those hills in pic background looked familiar, I was born and raised, (til the Army got me '65) in Paden City WV. One of my Piete builder buddies comes back to WV each year for 4 July, gonna e-forward your pic and notes on Hales Landing to him, maybe he'll have chance to stop by and admire your work next summer. He's currently living in FL, he and another homebuilder originally from Wheeling wanted to team fly my Piete and an Aeronca up to WV last summer for 4th, maybe next summer. Gooooo Eeerrs! Gordon ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vi Kaplers hinges
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 02, 2007
Thanks for that Rick But I am still having some trouble with the diameter the catalog doesn't seem to give it,the holes in the hinge measure 5/32,I think I have worked out the nut size by matching up the thread size but the diameter has got me buggered. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150000#150000 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flight Instructors-a listing
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2007
Found an instructor by word of mouth (with a plane) finally. Has a Texas tail dragger, a modified C-150, called at C-150-T. This month the new Sport Aviation came out, with a good relevant article on biplane design advice, with drag equations and useful info. Also had an article on transitioning to taildraggers. And links to CFI lists that include taildragger CFIs. My technical counselor finally scheduled a meeting to look at my plane, found he had been very busy with doing work on chapter members planes for inspections and annuals (he is an A&P). The community of builders (both online and EAA) is what makes working on homebuilts feasible. Can't imagine what a farmer with a barn and a field (BHP) ... without the internet, or other builders close bye must have faced in getting the first Air Camper going. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150009#150009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: up and coming Pietenpol Air Campers
Date: Dec 02, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Very nice photos and congratulations on putting your one-piece wing on your project Dan ! I have a feeling that this is going to be one of those Air Campers that everyone will delight in seeing on the grass at Brodhead in the next year or two. Fantastic to see more new Piets coming off the assembly line. (er.....workshops) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Flight Instructors-a listing
Date: Dec 02, 2007
I sent a message to the group with a website link that shows all of the CFIs state by state, but it never made it on the list, if anyone wants it send me a message. Rob Stapleton -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 4:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flight Instructors-a listing Found an instructor by word of mouth (with a plane) finally. Has a Texas tail dragger, a modified C-150, called at C-150-T. This month the new Sport Aviation came out, with a good relevant article on biplane design advice, with drag equations and useful info. Also had an article on transitioning to taildraggers. And links to CFI lists that include taildragger CFIs. My technical counselor finally scheduled a meeting to look at my plane, found he had been very busy with doing work on chapter members planes for inspections and annuals (he is an A&P). The community of builders (both online and EAA) is what makes working on homebuilts feasible. Can't imagine what a farmer with a barn and a field (BHP) ... without the internet, or other builders close bye must have faced in getting the first Air Camper going. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150009#150009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Project for sale
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2007
[quote="kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com"]Members, In barnstromers under the search engine you can find in the project page a nice Pietenpol for sale at a very goods price.....if interested. Food for thought on this wintery blizzardy day! Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. > [b] If it's the blue and white one that needs the wings finished, it's sold already. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150078#150078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: prop for A-75
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Dec 02, 2007
Sensenich recently recommended to me to use a 70-42 for an A-75 on a Pietenpol, as opposed to the 72-42 (standard), 72-40 (climb) and 72-44 (cruise) recommended for 65's. In any case, you need to unload the 75 a bit relative to the 65 to allow it to climb higher in the rpm band. Otherwise as you suggest in your post, you end up with the performance of a 65. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150081#150081 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: starting the warm A65
Date: Dec 02, 2007
Thanks to Ben, Walt, and others who provided the excellent suggestions on starting my A65 when after it's been running a while. Worked like a charm. I took the airplane up and flew for a few tenths, landed, shut it down according to the suggestion of opening the throttle just after killing the mags (sort of simultaneously, actually, to keep the engine from drawing fuel through the idle circuit of the Stromberg as it spins down), parked at the hangar and piddled around with some projects for 20-25 minutes then tried starting it. Fired on the second pull. Note to Corky: I performed surgery on the lower edge of the front cockpit instrument panel to improve the knee clearance and make it easier for passengers to get in and out (and fit once they get in). It really helps a lot. There was already a stiffener glued in behind the panel about 1-1/4" up from the bottom edge, so I cut off the part below that and it's much better now. I'll take a picture next time I'm out at the hangar and I recommend this modification to those who are building and can build this slight change right in. Also put the range markings on the airspeed indicator, oil temp, and tach (redline). I've seen various values for Vne for the Air Camper but some seemed too high and others too low (based on Pietenpol's published values). I forget what I redlined 41CC at but I'll check when I'm back at the hangar. While I was up flying, I did stalls both power on and power off as well as put the airplane in a controlled dive to Vne. No flutter, but the airplane sure howls at that speed and wants to go back to 70-75. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2007
Subject: Assembly Milestone
Group, Thanks to all who responded to my notice of progress. I really appreciate it, as it really means a lot to me. At this point I have a whole host of avenues to work on, not knowing which to take. There have been so many things that have hinged on this event. More FUN!!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Assembly Milestone
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Dan, Your Pietenpol looks great! Looks like you are about ready for cover now, and that was perhaps the most satisfying part of the whole project to me, where you transform a bare framework into a flying machine. Unless you are a real magician, I would doubt if you will have it ready for Brodhead this year (for me, covering and painting took the better part of a year, but I'm a notoriously slow worker). Much as I'd like to see it at Brodhead this year, please don't push it. The RV-10 community recently had their first fatal accident of an RV-10 and from the preliminary post-mortem it appears that a number of short cuts were made in order for the plane to make it to Oshkosh this year (it appears that the 40 hour flyoff was "pencil whipped" and the plane had less than 7 hours on it when it took off for OSH). Mods continued to be made to the airplane on almost every flight and apparently one of them went bad, killing the owner/builder. If necessary, a bunch of us can stop in at Poplar Grove on the way to or from Brodhead to see your project. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Assembly Milestone Group, Thanks to all who responded to my notice of progress. I really appreciate it, as it really means a lot to me. At this point I have a whole host of avenues to work on, not knowing which to take. There have been so many things that have hinged on this event. More FUN!!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ hottest products and top money wasters <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolto p00030000000002> of 2007. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: final rigging
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Good luck, Rob. We need photos! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RBush96589(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 7:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: final rigging thanks for the input on my rigging question everyone. I am going to try to get it together this weekend, weather permitting.Jack and Gene if everything goes OK in the next couple of weekends,and I can get comfortable flying this thing by the time you get ready to make the trip to Brodhead I would be interested in making the trip with you. I live between Jackson and Lexington. Robert Bush _____ <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop0003000000000 1> and top money wasters <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolto p00030000000002> of 2007. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Glenn Thomas wrote: > I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. > Having spent quite a few years in R&D which involved formulating a variety of potions and substances, including epoxy adhesive systems, I should point out something for informative purposes. The one major problem with your "discovery", is that volume ratios are not the gospel. Mass ratios are. Mixing by proper mass ratio is required to achieve a stoichiometric balance between the two components. Volume ratio takes second chair to mixing in the proper ratio of mass. Epoxies such as T-88 are formulated so that you can achieve a reasonably accurate A:B blend when mixing by volume, which is what most people leans towards as it is convenient and does not require a scale or balance to do so. If you are off a bit on either side of ideal the properties are not adversely affected, but there are limits to that. You will note the caution on the data sheet regardng addition of extra hardener for example - that is a complete no-no. In the world of epoxies and curatives, and in other adhesive chemistries as well, the raw material data contains a figure known as "equivalent weight" - which in simple terms is the mass (= weight on a scale) of one material that contains a known amount of reactive sites on the molecule. In order for each "A" site to react with a matching "B" site on the curative, you need an equal number of reactive sites on each side. When you have the equivalent weights of the materials, this is easy, and the two are mixed in proportion according to the equivalent weights, giving an equal number of "A" and "B" parts. Volume is in fact completely irrelevant and no more than a secondary parameter, and is only accounted for in the formulation and provided as a convenient method of mixing. Yes to one possible burning question: if the specific gravities of two materials are known, you can theoretically mix them correctly by volume. However, think of the things that could throw you off: (1) air bubbles in either material (2) tapered weighing vessels (3) human error (4) misreading due to the meniscus (the curve at the side of some liquid materials) (5) material stuck to the side of the weighing vessel (6) a combination of any of the above or other issues not listed None of which apply when mixing by weight! Don't be fooled by the manufacturer's listed 1:1 ratio by volume - there is a bag of tricks available to the formulator to allow them to adjust each side so that 1:1 volume gives the right mix ratio. However, they do this with prior knowledge of the correct mass ratios. A good rule to follow is, anytime you have access to two things - (1) a reasonably accurate scale, and (b) the A:B mass ratio specified by the manufacturer of the epoxy system - you should mix by mass versus by volume. In the long run your mixes will be more consistent and therefore by inference will be closer to the maximum properties of the adhesive system. In essence, you can bypass the secondary method of volume mixing and it's potential flwas, and go right to the horse's mouth by using a scale. In simple terms, while volumetric mixing is "good enough" in most cases, when you have the choice, would you not err towards the knowledge that you have not made a volume interpretation error and use the mass ratios instead? To me I can't do something in a less accurate manner when the better way is available and has far fewer caveats. For the cost of a scale good enough to do the job, which can be measured in tens of dollars and is therefore insignificant compared to the investment in time and money on a homebuilt, why piddle around? Hey, just my "$0.02".. [Wink] Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150169#150169 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vi Kaplers hinges
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Carson, I don't have Vi's hinges, so this isn't speaking from personal experience with them, but... BHP's plans show the empennage hinges to be mounted with #8 screws. Let's make the very safe assumption that these will be sufficient to carry the load (based on a total of four screws per hinge assembly - two for each component). Based on the dimension you have given, the holes in your hinges are .156" (5/32" diameter holes). Don't know the precision of your measurement (measured with a caliper or a ruler). In any case, the screw size closest to that hole is a #8 screw (.164" diameter). If I were you, I would go with #8-32 hardware (length to suit your particular build conditions - depending whether you recess the hinges into the wood or not). See if the screws will fit in the holes as-is. If necessary, open the holes in the hinges with a 11/64" drill (11/64" = .171", which will give you a nice .007" clearance). As I understand it, Vi's hinges are made of cast aluminum, so it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the holes were not perfect. If anyone out there with first-hand experience with Vi's hinges disagrees with anything I have just written, please let the list know. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vi Kaplers hinges
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Gents I purchased Vi's hinges three years ago at Broadhead. Bill is correct abou t the # 8 screws. I purchased 8-32 x 11/2 machine screws from Leavens Avia tion in Toronto (ANM MS24693558) along with self locking nuts and washers. The countersink holes of Vi's hinges accept the machine screws heads perfe ctly. My two bits... Scott Knowlton Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kaplers hingesDate: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10: Carson, I don't have Vi's hinges, so this isn't speaking from personal experience w ith them, but... BHP's plans show the empennage hinges to be mounted with #8 screws. Let's m ake the very safe assumption that these will be sufficient to carry the loa d (based on a total of four screws per hinge assembly - two for each compon ent). Based on the dimension you have given, the holes in your hinges are .156" ( 5/32" diameter holes). Don't know the precision of your measurement (measur ed with a caliper or a ruler). In any case, the screw size closest to that hole is a #8 screw (.164" diameter). If I were you, I would go with #8-32 h ardware (length to suit your particular build conditions - depending whethe r you recess the hinges into the wood or not). See if the screws will fit i n the holes as-is. If necessary, open the holes in the hinges with a 11/64" drill (11/64" = .171", which will give you a nice .007" clearance). As I understand it, Vi's hinges are made of cast aluminum, so it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the holes were not perfect. If anyone out there with first-hand experience with Vi's hinges disagrees w ith anything I have just written, please let the list know. Bill C. _________________________________________________________________ Introducing the City @ Live! Take a tour! http://getyourliveid.ca/?icid=LIVEIDENCA006 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Subject: Re: Assembly Milestone
Hi Jack, Thank you for your kind words. That's good advice about not rushing. I still have much work to do before I start the covering, such as making the fuel lines and cowling. There is no way I can get it done for 2008, but Lord willing I should be there at Brodhead in '08. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Assembly milestone
Congratulations Dan!!! Beautiful work. Thanks for the pictures! Saludos Santiago --------------------------------- Compart video en la ventana de tus mensajes y tambin tus fotos de Flickr. Usel Nuevo Yahoo! Messenger versin Beta. Visit http://ar.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Like Einstein said, "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." So, when it comes to mixing epoxy, which of the following is simpler: Mix equal parts (by volume) of Part A and Part B. Or Mix (by mass) Parts A and B in a ratio of 100 to 83. (or is that 83 to 100)? Human nature being what it is, one time or another, someone is going to do it the wrong way around,and instead of being off by a few percent (due to normal human error), they're going to be off by about 40%. And how many guys are going to forget to reset the scale (or deduct the mass of the cup)? I'm pretty sure that when they formulated T88 (or any similar structural epoxy like it) they intentionally made it so there was a one-to-one ratio by volume, because that's the simplest way to measure liquids. That's probably why they say to mix it that way on the bottles. It's easier for the builder, and it's probably better (liability-wise) for the epoxy formulator. So, if the instructions say to mix equal parts by volume, why not do that? When mixing my epoxy, I use the same clear graduated plastic cups that Clif recommended (Lee Valley # 56Z82.02). Yes, the cups are tapered, but they have multiple graduations in ounces, millilitres and drams - take your pick. I also leave the unused portion of my mix in the cup, which I label with the date, to keep a record of my mixes. There is no transfer of material from one cup to another - it's all done in the one cup. Fill up to the mark for 3/8 of an ounce with Part A, and let it settle, and all air bubbles rise. Re-check after settling, to make sure the volume is right. Then add Part B almost up to the mark for 3/4 of an ounce, let that settle, and add a little bit more (if necessary) to get the total volume to 3/4 of an ounce. Mix thoroughly for several minutes non-stop, then let it sit for ten minutes, for the tiny air bubbles to dissipate, and apply. Works like a charm. <> I also use their glue spreaders (Lee valley #99K50.10) to mix and apply the epoxy. After the epoxy has hardened, it flakes off, and the spreader can be re-used over and over again. <> Personally, I think the average builder is waaaaaay more likely to screw up measuring by mass in a ratio of .83 to 1 than by measuring by volume in a ratio of 1 to 1. Why make life more complicated? My $.02 (Canadian) Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Resin 100 parts / Hardener 83 parts BY WEIGHT - From a call to System 3 No problem with my "discovery". I got the mfr ration by weighing what I visually compared. If you take your time, take your project seriously and measure carefully, you will be fine. I agree with every point Bill made and have been using same type of mixing process as he has and don't think new builders should have cause for concern if they have been measuring visually by equal volume and doing it carefully. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150202#150202 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vi Kaplers hinges
Does anyone know who was selling the machined hinges adjacent to the Vi's hinges at Brodhead '08? I purchased the hinges but he had some other products I am interested in. Ryan M Scott Knowlton wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Gents I purchased Vi's hinges three years ago at Broadhead. Bill is correct about the # 8 screws. I purchased 8-32 x 11/2 machine screws from Leavens Aviation in Toronto (ANM MS24693558) along with self locking nuts and washers. The countersink holes of Vi's hinges accept the machine screws heads perfectly. My two bits... Scott Knowlton --------------------------------- Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kaplers hinges Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:17:19 -0500 From: eng(at)canadianrogers.com Carson, I don't have Vi's hinges, so this isn't speaking from personal experience with them, but... BHP's plans show the empennage hinges to be mounted with #8 screws. Let's make the very safe assumption that these will be sufficient to carry the load (based on a total of four screws per hinge assembly - two for each component). Based on the dimension you have given, the holes in your hinges are .156" (5/32" diameter holes). Don't know the precision of your measurement (measured with a caliper or a ruler). In any case, the screw size closest to that hole is a #8 screw (.164" diameter). If I were you, I would go with #8-32 hardware (length to suit your particular build conditions - depending whether you recess the hinges into the wood or not). See if the screws will fit in the holes as-is. If necessary, open the holes in the hinges with a 11/64" drill (11/64" = .171", which will give you a nice .007" clearance). As I understand it, Vi's hinges are made of cast aluminum, so it wouldn't be a surprise at all if the holes were not perfect. If anyone out there with first-hand experience with Vi's hinges disagrees with anything I have just written, please let the list know. Bill C. blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com --------------------------------- HO HO HO, if you've been naughty this year, email Santa! Visit asksanta.ca to learn more! --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Dec 03, 2007
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Digital ScaleOh, and one other thing. I take a Sharpie and write "100" one one bottle and "83" on the other as soon as I get more T-88. Keeps down the confusion when mixing and chances for error. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Mixing by weight also has a some other advantages. One I like a lot is that if I did not mix enough I can throw the same mixing cup with the mixing stick and leftover epoxy on the sides of the cup back on the scale and hit the tare button. Then I can start a fresh batch in the same cup. There is also a lot less waste when you are not using separate syringes or something for your measuring. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MikeD Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 10:01 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Digital Scale Glenn Thomas wrote: > I used it when making ribs to measure out one part of the T-88. One of the parts has a higher mass per volume so you have to measure the volume of the other part visually. It was good for getting the right amount to start with. T-88 instructions say to mix 2 parts of equal volume. When I was ready to mix by equal mass I could see that the volumes where different so the scale didn't really end up giving me the precision I was hoping for. I think you can get pretty good precision using identical translucent plastic containers and a block of wood or straight edge behind them as a reference point. > Having spent quite a few years in R&D which involved formulating a variety of potions and substances, including epoxy adhesive systems, I should point out something for informative purposes. The one major problem with your "discovery", is that volume ratios are not the gospel. Mass ratios are. Mixing by proper mass ratio is required to achieve a stoichiometric balance between the two components. Volume ratio takes second chair to mixing in the proper ratio of mass. Epoxies such as T-88 are formulated so that you can achieve a reasonably accurate A:B blend when mixing by volume, which is what most people leans towards as it is convenient and does not require a scale or balance to do so. If you are off a bit on either side of ideal the properties are not adversely affected, but there are limits to that. You will note the caution on the data sheet regardng addition of extra hardener for example - that is a complete no-no. In the world of epoxies and curatives, and in other adhesive chemistries as well, the raw material data contains a figure known as "equivalent weight" - which in simple terms is the mass (= weight on a scale) of one material that contains a known amount of reactive sites on the molecule. In order for each "A" site to react with a matching "B" site on the curative, you need an equal number of reactive sites on each side. When you have the equivalent weights of the materials, this is easy, and the two are mixed in proportion according to the equivalent weights, giving an equal number of "A" and "B" parts. Volume is in fact completely irrelevant and no more than a secondary parameter, and is only accounted for in the formulation and provided as a convenient method of mixing. Yes to one possible burning question: if the specific gravities of two materials are known, you can theoretically mix them correctly by volume. However, think of the things that could throw you off: (1) air bubbles in either material (2) tapered weighing vessels (3) human error (4) misreading due to the meniscus (the curve at the side of some liquid materials) (5) material stuck to the side of the weighing vessel (6) a combination of any of the above or other issues not listed None of which apply when mixing by weight! Don't be fooled by the manufacturer's listed 1:1 ratio by volume - there is a bag of tricks available to the formulator to allow them to adjust each side so that 1:1 volume gives the right mix ratio. However, they do this with prior knowledge of the correct mass ratios. A good rule to follow is, anytime you have access to two things - (1) a reasonably accurate scale, and (b) the A:B mass ratio specified by the manufacturer of the epoxy system - you should mix by mass versus by volume. In the long run your mixes will be more consistent and therefore by inference will be closer to the maximum properties of the adhesive system. In essence, you can bypass the secondary method of volume mixing and it's potential flwas, and go right to the horse's mouth by using a scale. In simple terms, while volumetric mixing is "good enough" in most cases, when you have the choice, would you not err towards the knowledge that you have not made a volume interpretation error and use the mass ratios instead? To me I can't do something in a less accurate manner when the better way is available and has far fewer caveats. For the cost of a scale good enough to do the job, which can be measured in tens of dollars and is therefore insignificant compared to the investment in time and money on a homebuilt, why piddle around? Hey, just my "$0.02".. [Wink] Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150169#150169 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vi Kaplers hinges
Date: Dec 03, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Ryan, I'm not sure who that was. If it was the fellow selling laser cut parts I believe many of the items he had were cut from stock that was to thin. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Assembly milestone
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Beautiful job Dan, thanks for sharing. Gang, In the current issue of CONTACT! Magazine, our very own Oscar Zuniga presented an entertaining and well received article that explores the idea of building a Henderson Longster as a part 103 legal ultralight. Although our magazine usually doesn't delve into ultralights, I received a lot of mail asking for more "low and slow" and antique style aircraft, like what we use to get in To Fly. So with that, and motivated by Dan's inspirational photos, I'd like to ask the group to help me put together several Pietenpol articles that might help to showcase the gambit of creativity and craftsmanship spread throughout this community. I'm sure if I ask nicely, OZ can help spearhead this effort, and with that, maybe we can expand the scope of CONTACT! to include a regular presentation representing open cockpits and flying wires. I would most likely want to feature a minimum of three-four aircraft/projects. Unlike most magazines that think featuring something incomplete is taboo, we feel that our readers break down to the kind of "mechanics" (for a lack of a better word) that would love nothing more than spending an afternoon in a fellow builder's hanger, proposing over the work in progress. but I digress. I'd like to feature a 100% bone stock version of something that could have easily been hand-crafted by Bernard himself, back in the 30's. Of course since he pioneered the Corvair for use in experimental aviation, I'd like to see a Corvair powered version too. I'd also like to feature the most outrageous version available, maybe something with a turbo Sube, constant speed prop, glass cockpit, what ever. a "modern" version if you will. And then I'd like to feature something middle of the road; kinda like what Bernard would design/build today (and still be an Aircamper). hydraulic brakes, transponder, liberal use of composites or other modern materials, etc. or something that represents the current builder that's not 100% concerned about keeping to the plans. Thanks!!! Pat Panzera Editor(at)ContactMagazine.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Assembly milestone Guys, I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Assembly milestone
Date: Dec 03, 2007
Hi Pat, I will forward this request to Greg Bacon. Greg is the current owner of Mountain Piet, the turbo-Subaru powered Piet that is undergoing a wing reconstruction after a landing mishap. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Panzera To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Assembly milestone Beautiful job Dan, thanks for sharing. Gang, In the current issue of CONTACT! Magazine, our very own Oscar Zuniga presented an entertaining and well received article that explores the idea of building a Henderson Longster as a part 103 legal ultralight. Although our magazine usually doesn't delve into ultralights, I received a lot of mail asking for more "low and slow" and antique style aircraft, like what we use to get in To Fly. So with that, and motivated by Dan's inspirational photos, I'd like to ask the group to help me put together several Pietenpol articles that might help to showcase the gambit of creativity and craftsmanship spread throughout this community. I'm sure if I ask nicely, OZ can help spearhead this effort, and with that, maybe we can expand the scope of CONTACT! to include a regular presentation representing open cockpits and flying wires. I would most likely want to feature a minimum of three-four aircraft/projects. Unlike most magazines that think featuring something incomplete is taboo, we feel that our readers break down to the kind of "mechanics" (for a lack of a better word) that would love nothing more than spending an afternoon in a fellow builder's hanger, proposing over the work in progress. but I digress. I'd like to feature a 100% bone stock version of something that could have easily been hand-crafted by Bernard himself, back in the 30's. Of course since he pioneered the Corvair for use in experimental aviation, I'd like to see a Corvair powered version too. I'd also like to feature the most outrageous version available, maybe something with a turbo Sube, constant speed prop, glass cockpit, what ever. a "modern" version if you will. And then I'd like to feature something middle of the road; kinda like what Bernard would design/build today (and still be an Aircamper). hydraulic brakes, transponder, liberal use of composites or other modern materials, etc. or something that represents the current builder that's not 100% concerned about keeping to the plans. Thanks!!! Pat Panzera Editor(at)ContactMagazine.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:41 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Assembly milestone Guys, I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Glenn Thomas wrote: > Resin 100 parts / Hardener 83 parts BY WEIGHT - From a call to System 3 > > No problem with my "discovery". I got the mfr ration by weighing what I visually compared. If you take your time, take your project seriously and measure carefully, you will be fine. > > I agree with every point Bill made and have been using same type of mixing process as he has and don't think new builders should have cause for concern if they have been measuring visually by equal volume and doing it carefully. It's quite true that with care and common sense volume mixing works alright. I find mixing by weight faster and easier, maybe coz I've done it that way for twenty years. In my opinion mixing by weight is more consistent and does not involve any interpretation of liquid levels or whatever. And the weight ratio is the "gospel" to use the term again, and I prefer to do things that way without an interpretive step in between. Yes to the other post - they are formulated so that the volume ratios end up at 1:1, using equivalent weight and specific gravity information. And erring a little bit of either side of ideal won't cause any significant problems, although the shift from ideal properties is certainly related to the level of error. You will also find the weight ratio on the data sheet - it is provided for those that prefer to mix by weight. I just find mixing by weight easier, and I trust it far more than volume mixing. To me, anytime you are mixing epoxy there is the possibility of error with any method. 100 to 83 is dead nuts simple - pour what looks like enough resin into a mixing vessel on a tared scale. Scribble the weight on a piece of paper beside you as backup to your memory. Multiply by 0.83 with a $2.99 calculator. Add that much curative. If you overshoot, pick out the excess if not blended by the motion of pouring, or divide the excess by 0.83 and add resin to adjust. Takes three times as long to write as to do. And to cross check things for those with a penchant for recording their every move - keeping a table of your batch weights (A&B) is fast and easy, and you can check back to look for errors should something happen. It's common practice in some industries to record those details for any composition involving mixing of two or more components. Next time I get the chance, it will be an interesting little exercise to mix a few batches by volume, recording the vessel + A weight and the total weight, and compare accuracy to batches mixed by weight. Do what works best for you, but I thought the significance of mixing by weight might be of interest to some. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150324#150324 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Hi Mike, I might have reacted a little quickly here. When I was starting out I would read a post on the forum, contemplate my approach and wonder if everything I had made thus far was junk, to learn later that it wasn't. That was very frustrating. My comment comes from knowing that this is a pretty big undertaking and we try and help each other take note without unnecessarily alarming folks that did it the wrong way when in reality they did it the hard way, or didn't do it the best way. I actually think I will do what you and Brian Kraut say from now on (mark the bottle 100 resin / 83 hardener) and measure up ...since you have caused me to pause on this topic. Now I don't feel like I wasted money on 3 scales. Thanks for the info and the opportunity to pause and reconsider. The information on my website was put there because a friend of mine simply mixes 1:1 by mass using a scale considering this technique highly precise. I knew he visited my site and this was a subtle way of informing him. I still think my "discovery" is right. ...but your is most accurate and I will continue as you have described. Thanks, Glenn On 12/4/07, MikeD wrote: > > > Glenn Thomas wrote: > > Resin 100 parts / Hardener 83 parts BY WEIGHT - From a call to System 3 > > > > No problem with my "discovery". I got the mfr ration by weighing what I > visually compared. If you take your time, take your project seriously and > measure carefully, you will be fine. > > > > I agree with every point Bill made and have been using same type of > mixing process as he has and don't think new builders should have cause for > concern if they have been measuring visually by equal volume and doing it > carefully. > > > It's quite true that with care and common sense volume mixing works > alright. I find mixing by weight faster and easier, maybe coz I've done it > that way for twenty years. In my opinion mixing by weight is more consistent > and does not involve any interpretation of liquid levels or whatever. And > the weight ratio is the "gospel" to use the term again, and I prefer to do > things that way without an interpretive step in between. Yes to the other > post - they are formulated so that the volume ratios end up at 1:1, using > equivalent weight and specific gravity information. And erring a little bit > of either side of ideal won't cause any significant problems, although the > shift from ideal properties is certainly related to the level of error. You > will also find the weight ratio on the data sheet - it is provided for those > that prefer to mix by weight. > > I just find mixing by weight easier, and I trust it far more than volume > mixing. To me, anytime you are mixing epoxy there is the possibility of > error with any method. 100 to 83 is dead nuts simple - pour what looks like > enough resin into a mixing vessel on a tared scale. Scribble the weight on a > piece of paper beside you as backup to your memory. Multiply by 0.83 with > a $2.99 calculator. Add that much curative. If you overshoot, pick out the > excess if not blended by the motion of pouring, or divide the excess by > 0.83 and add resin to adjust. Takes three times as long to write as to do. > And to cross check things for those with a penchant for recording their > every move - keeping a table of your batch weights (A&B) is fast and easy, > and you can check back to look for errors should something happen. It's > common practice in some industries to record those details for any > composition involving mixing of two or more components. > > Next time I get the chance, it will be an interesting little exercise to > mix a few batches by volume, recording the vessel + A weight and the total > weight, and compare accuracy to batches mixed by weight. > > Do what works best for you, but I thought the significance of mixing by > weight might be of interest to some. > > -------- > Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150324#150324 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Robert, How did the weekend go?? If I ride my cycle down that way will I be able to see the strip from the road?(I'm riding down to Jackson later this week). Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: RBush96589(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Gene, I rent a 2300 ft grass strip with a t-hanger from a neighbor of mine about a half mile from my house.If you know where the law rd.exit 93 is off of i-40 it is about 4 miles north of there. ROBERT BUSH NX294RB ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- money wasters of 2007. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 11/24/2007 5:58 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
Date: Dec 04, 2007
The homebuilt "industry" has been mixing resins for bonding their planes for a heck of a lot of years. Rutan put some common sense in the use of two part epoxies for homebuilts bout 35 yrs ago now. Burt's first Varieze plans had you build a homemade scale to weigh resins/hardeners. The original plans described a weighing scale that utilized different "arms" from a centering pivot. The concept of "Arms" in weight/balance was something homebuilders understood. Cheap digital scales were not available at the time. The composite homebuilders use about 50 gals of resin/hardener to make their planes and all plans I know of use the weight ratio for mixing, one reason---it's the most accurate.. Most all epoxies promoted for use by homebuilders are very forgiving, the reason for this is because the resin part of the formula is a long polymer and it has a "equivalent weight" has a range, meaning-- the number of chemically reactive sites for the hardener to crosslink. The folks who make these resins like Shell or Dow or Ciba, sell their resins to formulators so they can decide what hardeners and diluents are good for the enduse. The formulators do their best to come up with a formula that is user friendly but also works well in the application. There are 100's of formulas that would work in homebuilding, but only a few that are promoted or approved by the original homebuilder designer. The benefit of this Piete thread is to inform builders they have have options and provide some help with decisions. A) weighing the resin/hardener to get the most accurate mix ratio is better technique. B) resin systems that are mixed 100:100 are more forgiving with mixed by volume. But many homebuilders use systems that require 3parts resin to 1 part hardener, or 2:1, these systems should be mixed by weight, it's simply better technique. C) in a previous posting, I discussed the cost to the homebuilder for using the wrong resin system or mis-mixing the system. The example I used was the roof collapse in the Boston Tunnel Big Dig. The resin system they used was a simple 100:100 mix by volume, it was made simple for the construction industry to bond bolts to concrete. It failed not because it was mis-mixed, but because the resin formulator sent the wrong product to the job site. The resin system had thermoplastic creep under strain, the resin set up "hard", seem initially to work ok, but slowly cold flowed when the weight of the concrete roof sagged the roof. System failed, someone died, millions of lost bucks, and a formulator in bankruptcy. Moral of story-------use the right epoxy system on your plane, use it correctly. The epoxy system holds your project together for it's entire life.......don't short change your knowledge of it's contribution to your safety. Do it right and you won't have to worry and you won't have to do it again. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Digital Scale > > > Glenn Thomas wrote: >> Resin 100 parts / Hardener 83 parts BY WEIGHT - From a call to System 3 >> >> No problem with my "discovery". I got the mfr ration by weighing what I >> visually compared. If you take your time, take your project seriously >> and measure carefully, you will be fine. >> >> I agree with every point Bill made and have been using same type of >> mixing process as he has and don't think new builders should have cause >> for concern if they have been measuring visually by equal volume and >> doing it carefully. > > > It's quite true that with care and common sense volume mixing works > alright. I find mixing by weight faster and easier, maybe coz I've done it > that way for twenty years. In my opinion mixing by weight is more > consistent and does not involve any interpretation of liquid levels or > whatever. And the weight ratio is the "gospel" to use the term again, and > I prefer to do things that way without an interpretive step in between. > Yes to the other post - they are formulated so that the volume ratios end > up at 1:1, using equivalent weight and specific gravity information. And > erring a little bit of either side of ideal won't cause any significant > problems, although the shift from ideal properties is certainly related to > the level of error. You will also find the weight ratio on the data > sheet - it is provided for those that prefer to mix by weight. > > I just find mixing by weight easier, and I trust it far more than volume > mixing. To me, anytime you are mixing epoxy there is the possibility of > error with any method. 100 to 83 is dead nuts simple - pour what looks > like enough resin into a mixing vessel on a tared scale. Scribble the > weight on a piece of paper beside you as backup to your memory. Multiply > by 0.83 with a $2.99 calculator. Add that much curative. If you overshoot, > pick out the excess if not blended by the motion of pouring, or divide the > excess by 0.83 and add resin to adjust. Takes three times as long to write > as to do. And to cross check things for those with a penchant for > recording their every move - keeping a table of your batch weights (A&B) > is fast and easy, and you can check back to look for errors should > something happen. It's common practice in some industries to record those > details for any composition involving mixing of two or more components. > > Next time I get the chance, it will be an interesting little exercise to > mix a few batches by volume, recording the vessel + A weight and the total > weight, and compare accuracy to batches mixed by weight. > > Do what works best for you, but I thought the significance of mixing by > weight might be of interest to some. > > -------- > Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150324#150324 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <Panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Assembly milestone
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Sounds great! Thanks! Pat _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Assembly milestone Hi Pat, I will forward this request to Greg Bacon. Greg is the current owner of Mountain Piet, the turbo-Subaru powered Piet that is undergoing a wing reconstruction after a landing mishap. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Panzera <mailto:Panzera@experimental-aviation.com> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Assembly milestone Beautiful job Dan, thanks for sharing. Gang, In the current issue of CONTACT! Magazine, our very own Oscar Zuniga presented an entertaining and well received article that explores the idea of building a Henderson Longster as a part 103 legal ultralight. Although our magazine usually doesn't delve into ultralights, I received a lot of mail asking for more "low and slow" and antique style aircraft, like what we use to get in To Fly. So with that, and motivated by Dan's inspirational photos, I'd like to ask the group to help me put together several Pietenpol articles that might help to showcase the gambit of creativity and craftsmanship spread throughout this community. I'm sure if I ask nicely, OZ can help spearhead this effort, and with that, maybe we can expand the scope of CONTACT! to include a regular presentation representing open cockpits and flying wires. I would most likely want to feature a minimum of three-four aircraft/projects. Unlike most magazines that think featuring something incomplete is taboo, we feel that our readers break down to the kind of "mechanics" (for a lack of a better word) that would love nothing more than spending an afternoon in a fellow builder's hanger, proposing over the work in progress. but I digress. I'd like to feature a 100% bone stock version of something that could have easily been hand-crafted by Bernard himself, back in the 30's. Of course since he pioneered the Corvair for use in experimental aviation, I'd like to see a Corvair powered version too. I'd also like to feature the most outrageous version available, maybe something with a turbo Sube, constant speed prop, glass cockpit, what ever. a "modern" version if you will. And then I'd like to feature something middle of the road; kinda like what Bernard would design/build today (and still be an Aircamper). hydraulic brakes, transponder, liberal use of composites or other modern materials, etc. or something that represents the current builder that's not 100% concerned about keeping to the plans. Thanks!!! Pat Panzera Editor(at)ContactMagazine.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Assembly milestone Guys, I have reached a milestone today. I was finally able to bring down my one-piece wing from the wall and assemble it to the fuselage. Boy does it feel good. Here are some pics to spur on the others behind me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Subject: (no subject)
Gene, Saturday I had to do a little last minute tweak on the landing gear and finish making the cockpit covers so I did not get it up to the strip to put together.Then Sunday the weather was messy.so I am off work Thursday and I think I am going to put the wings and struts on it here at home and do a final weight and balance,since I did it before I painted it. I have an asphalt drive so it would be easier to do here than on a grass strip then this weekend take it up to the strip for the final assembly. yes you can see the strip from the road if you know where to look. If you are coming down Thursday or this weekend give me a call on my cell at 731 267 0578 and I will tell how to get here. Robert Bush **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Met some this summer, that would really love to learn
to fly RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Digital ScaleLess than a mile from my house, met some that were longing to fly. walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Digital Scale Oh, and one other thing. I take a Sharpie and write "100" one one bottle and "83" on the other as soon as I get more T-88. Keeps down the confusion when mixing and chances for error. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Robert, If the weather is good I will make it thursday and give you a call. If I can be of any help getting your Piet ready let me know. Gene Cel 731-336-6893 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Met some this summer, that would really love to learn
to fly What a waste of a hangar! If only they knew what they were wandering around ignoring. On 12/4/07, walt evans wrote: > > Less than a mile from my house, met some that were longing to fly. > walt evans > NX140DL > > "No one ever learned anything by talking" > Ben Franklin > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Brian Kraut > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, December 03, 2007 2:08 PM > *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Digital Scale > > > Oh, and one other thing. I take a Sharpie and write "100" one one bottle > and "83" on the other as soon as I get more T-88. Keeps down the confusion > when mixing and chances for error. > > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Subject: Website for Pilots
Check out this website!!! _"Over the Airwaves"_ (http://overtheairwaves.com/) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Dec 04, 2007
Glenn Thomas wrote: > Hi Mike, > I might have reacted a little quickly here. When I was starting out I would read a post on the forum, contemplate my approach and wonder if everything I had made thus far was junk, to learn later that it wasn't. That was very frustrating. > > The information on my website was put there because a friend of mine simply mixes 1:1 by mass using a scale considering this technique highly precise. I knew he visited my site and this was a subtle way of informing him. I still think my "discovery" is right. ...but your is most accurate and I will continue as you have described. > > Thanks, > Glenn No worries Glen - my writing style occasionally comes out a little bombastic anyhow. My intention with the quoted word "discovery" was to highlight the fact that while the 1:1 volume ratio (fr T-88 that is) is correct, amounts of each component required to achieve that are determined using the reactivity data which is concerned only with weight (well, mass actually), not volume. Mixing by weight is generally accepted in industry as the right way to do things where tight control of properties is important. No intent to scare people, but only to pass on some info to show how they may be able to exercise more precise control over the consistency and quality of their adhesive mixes - hard to argue with the positives there. If your friend was mixing 1:1 by weight in an attempt to improve accuracy over mixing 1:1 by volume, hoo boy was he on the wrong track! [Embarassed] ... he had in fact ensured every batch would be as messed up as the others! Mike D. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150528#150528 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Scale
I'm going to meet up with him soon and see if he did his whole plane that way. He is pretty much done with all the woodwork. When it is covered the fabric will hold it together anyway. (That was a joke) On 12/4/07, MikeD wrote: > > > Glenn Thomas wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > I might have reacted a little quickly here. When I was starting out I > would read a post on the forum, contemplate my approach and wonder if > everything I had made thus far was junk, to learn later that it > wasn't. That was very frustrating. > > > > The information on my website was put there because a friend of mine > simply mixes 1:1 by mass using a scale considering this technique highly > precise. I knew he visited my site and this was a subtle way of informing > him. I still think my "discovery" is right. ...but your is most accurate > and I will continue as you have described. > > > > Thanks, > > Glenn > > > No worries Glen - my writing style occasionally comes out a little > bombastic anyhow. My intention with the quoted word "discovery" was to > highlight the fact that while the 1:1 volume ratio (fr T-88 that is) is > correct, amounts of each component required to achieve that are determined > using the reactivity data which is concerned only with weight (well, mass > actually), not volume. Mixing by weight is generally accepted in industry as > the right way to do things where tight control of properties is important. > No intent to scare people, but only to pass on some info to show how they > may be able to exercise more precise control over the consistency and > quality of their adhesive mixes - hard to argue with the positives there. > > If your friend was mixing 1:1 by weight in an attempt to improve accuracy > over mixing 1:1 by volume, hoo boy was he on the wrong track! > [Embarassed] ... he had in fact ensured every batch would be as messed up > as the others! > > Mike D. > > -------- > Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150528#150528 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2007
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Matronics List Fund Raiser - 2007 List of Contributors
Dear Listers, I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser underscores the great sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on the Contribution site for just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2007 List of Contributors current as of 12/6/07! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2007.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Machined tail hinges
Date: Dec 06, 2007
Dick, Mike and all His name is Don, I think Harper is his last name. His stuff is very nice and he is not trying to get rich. I bought an air-oil separator from him, something like 45 or 50 bucks. It is at least as nice as the separators in A & S and it also comes apart so you could inspect/clean at annual. Skip > [Original Message] > From: Dick Navratil <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> > To: > Date: 12/5/2007 9:41:12 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Machined tail hinges > > > Mike and all > It is actually a friend of P.F. Beck who makes hinges and other parts. I > can't remember his name right now. If you can wait, he will be at Sun n > Fun, in the Wood Workshop in April and probably at Brodhead again. Yoy can > e mail P.F. Beck at PFBeck(at)barnwellsc.com and he can put you in touch. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Machined tail hinges > > > > > > I bought a set of those hinges (the official start of my Piet project, I > > suppose...) I haven't used them yet but everyone I showed them to was > > impressed with the quality, especially for $40 for 9. IIRC they were made > > by > > P.F. Beck in North Carolina. > > > > -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2007
Subject: Sources for wing struts
Listers, I've haunted eBay, contacted Wentworth Aircraft in Illinois, and several aviation salvage yards and local FBOs looking for suitable used wing struts, particularly J-series Pipers or possible Taylorcraft. I understand that failed struts with the problem area at the bottom or inboard area can still be used for a Piet because the Piet uses shorter struts and the bad area can simply be cut off. Does anyone have, or does anyone know where I might find four struts? I could buy the streamline tube from AS&S but that looks to be about $800 at current steel prices. Matt Paxton **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2007
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Rudder bar flattening
Thanks for the tip Clif! I found your description of how to align the ends of the rudder bar in the archives. It worked great. "Clamp a stick to the flattened face and eyeball it vertical to the vice jaws and hold with just a little pressure. hold a stick or ruler to one vice jaw face and sight the two sticks. Repeat until both line up. Then squish away. I have two 3/4" X 3/4" sticks 2' long, one white, one black hanging on my tool wall. They are known by the ancients as winding sticks. http://www.robcosman.ca/RC_Jigs.htm http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/browseproducts/Winding-Sticks.html Clif --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Sources for wing struts
Date: Dec 07, 2007
Wood flier, The Piper Colt and TriPacer had the same lower end strut rusting problem. Wasn't aware you could cut-off and still be usable, be very careful with that idea. The AD that came out in the 70's regarding this these struts should be cked-out before you buy. I had to replace the struts on my ole Colt many many years ago and saw the amount of rust damage they had on the lower end. When you can push a fabric testing punch thru 4130 steel (the original AD's testing method), you gotta worry about the entire strutt. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodflier(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 7:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sources for wing struts Listers, I've haunted eBay, contacted Wentworth Aircraft in Illinois, and several aviation salvage yards and local FBOs looking for suitable used wing struts, particularly J-series Pipers or possible Taylorcraft. I understand that failed struts with the problem area at the bottom or inboard area can still be used for a Piet because the Piet uses shorter struts and the bad area can simply be cut off. Does anyone have, or does anyone know where I might find four struts? I could buy the streamline tube from AS&S but that looks to be about $800 at current steel prices. Matt Paxton ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- money wasters of 2007. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Sources for wing struts
Date: Dec 07, 2007
The rust is generally on the lower end because that is where the water gathers. If you are cutting the bottom off to shorten it you will get a good view of the inside. In reality though, there are lots of the non-sealed struts out there cheap that don't have any rust and I would wait for some good ones before I used rusty ones. Most people get tired of having to pay for the repetative AD and just buy new sealed struts when the old ones are still good. Post a message on www.shortwing.org/forum or one of the Cub forums and you should find some. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gordon Bowen Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 3:23 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sources for wing struts Wood flier, The Piper Colt and TriPacer had the same lower end strut rusting problem. Wasn't aware you could cut-off and still be usable, be very careful with that idea. The AD that came out in the 70's regarding this these struts should be cked-out before you buy. I had to replace the struts on my ole Colt many many years ago and saw the amount of rust damage they had on the lower end. When you can push a fabric testing punch thru 4130 steel (the original AD's testing method), you gotta worry about the entire strutt. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodflier(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 7:57 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sources for wing struts Listers, I've haunted eBay, contacted Wentworth Aircraft in Illinois, and several aviation salvage yards and local FBOs looking for suitable used wing struts, particularly J-series Pipers or possible Taylorcraft. I understand that failed struts with the problem area at the bottom or inboard area can still be used for a Piet because the Piet uses shorter struts and the bad area can simply be cut off. Does anyone have, or does anyone know where I might find four struts? I could buy the streamline tube from AS&S but that looks to be about $800 at current steel prices. Matt Paxton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- title=http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000 000001 href="http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300000000 01" target=_blank>hottest products and top money wasters of 2007. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sources for wing struts
Have you tred the classified ad sections of the Taylorcraft and Aeronca newsletters? I'll check my membership news letters and see if any exisit. Ken H Woodflier(at)aol.com wrote: Listers, I've haunted eBay, contacted Wentworth Aircraft in Illinois, and several aviation salvage yards and local FBOs looking for suitable used wing struts, particularly J-series Pipers or possible Taylorcraft. I understand that failed struts with the problem area at the bottom or inboard area can still be used for a Piet because the Piet uses shorter struts and the bad area can simply be cut off. Does anyone have, or does anyone know where I might find four struts? I could buy the streamline tube from AS&S but that looks to be about $800 at current steel prices. Matt Paxton --------------------------------- Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Control tube construction
Date: Dec 09, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Freezing cold here, great day to work on the Piet. Where the control stick ears or tabs fit over the control tube, the plans show a 3/8 piece drilled for a =BC bolt that acts as a bearing which goes through and is welded to the control tube. Do I drill the ears or tabs with a =BC hole to fit over the bearing or drill them with a 3/8 hole to fit up flush with the bearing? Assuming the tabs fit over the bearing they will have to be spread apart to fit after the bearing is welded into the control tube. Sorry this is not very clear. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Control tube construction
Date: Dec 09, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Hello Jack, You drill the tabs for the bolt size of 1/4 inch to match the ID of the drilled 3/8" OD bearing tube that you welded into your control tube. I welded the 3/8" tube in place with excess length so I could custom grind/saw/file/sand it to fit the corresponding gap or opening in the tabs coming off my control stick. (s) Your question was quite clear I thought ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Adhesive comparison test results
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: Dec 09, 2007
gbowen(at)ptialaska.net wrote: > Mike, little off topic for wood laminations and Pietenpols but if you'd > like to try a rubber modified laminating resin system (off the shelf), that > has some of the best properties for handlaminates try Hexcel's (now > HBFuller) 2315. Think Epoxical (now Endurance in St.Paul) making same > formula. First it's based on a bis-F epoxy but this epoxy is pre-adducted > with Hycar rubber. The liquid rubber precips out when cured and makes a two > phase laminate. Our test, before HB Fuller bought-out the Resins group, > indicated this was one of our best systems. I used it on my Cozy IV, 60 min > gel time, kinda hot exotherm when floxed too thick, but best stuff for > laminates that need to resist flex cracking. Scaled Composites used a bunch > of it for their contract drones work. > Gordon That is exactly the type of adhesive system we used to make, and yeah the rubber modifiers when used right sure do wonders for mechanicals. We used a variety of aliphatic amine curatives, 3 in particular, blended in varying proportions for different jobs, but in general so that cure rate was as rapid as possible without excessive exotherm. The basic blends were epoxy resin (Dow 362), Hycar, reactive diluent, wetting agent and defoamer, plus silica and fumed silica in the structural adhesive variations, both flowable and thixotropic. Now that I don't do that gig anymore, it's good to know a commercial system exists with the same formulating goals in mind. -------- Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151375#151375 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sources for wing struts
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Dec 10, 2007
There are a lot of Piper guys in the Shortwing Piper group that have old struts that they would like to sell.I don't have any names right now,but if you can't locate some I might be able to get you one or two.I sold my Tri-pacer last month.we pulled the struts and took out the lower fork ends and checked them out good-found no rust,oiled them and put them back.not sure how the lengths work out-was going to see if they would work on the GN-1 but never got around to it.mine has aluminum struts but I would sleep better if I knew they were equal in strength to the steel struts called for.they may be but I have not seen any documentation on them.but several are using aluminum.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151581#151581 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: some really nice pix!
Date: Dec 11, 2007
Well, if this project has been mentioned here, I've sure missed it. Really nice project, interesting writeup, and great pictures (but a little bit sm all to see detail)- the EAA Chapter 1279 Piet project, at http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm Includes some documentation on their load test of the built-up box spar. V ery nice! I have to go back and read the construction notes in detail when I'm home t his evening. And don't miss the pix and writeup where they first started t he project... click on the '05-'06 link at the top. Includes some pix of a ll the metal fittings, including the tail surface hinges built per plans, n ot the Kapler style. Perfect for your iced-in, stormed-out evening viewing pleasure, especially you guys in Oklahoma. Jim-? You surviving the ice? Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://w ww.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Robert Bush's Piet
Date: Dec 11, 2007
Yesterday, here in Western Tennessee, it was raining with about an 800' ceiling so I decided to head over and meet Robert (AKA Randy) Bush. He lives about 50 miles from me and even though we had "talked" here on the list, I had yet to meet him or see his nearly completed Piet. I'm here to tell you it was well worth the trip. Randy is a great guy and a awesome airplane builder. I took some photo's and will try to send some to the group. If they don't come out it's because I'm dumber than a rock when it comes to a computer. Randy is on the Road until this weekend and when he gets home he's going to put the wings on, if the weather will allow, and move the plane to it's hanger. I plan on flying down to help out if I can. Gene N502 R ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: some really nice pix!
Date: Dec 11, 2007
That site does have some great pictures of the chapter's project! Very motivating! And I survived the ice just fine....so far! I was driving to the airport (for a week in Redding, CA) just as the worst of the freezing rain began...the power on our farm went off Sunday evening just as I was checking into my hotel...1500 miles away... And it's still off.... I just hope the power stays off a couple days after my return on Saturday so I don't have to listen to my wife complain about me missing it all... :-) Thanks for asking! jm ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: some really nice pix! Well, if this project has been mentioned here, I've sure missed it. Really nice project, interesting writeup, and great pictures (but a little bit small to see detail)- the EAA Chapter 1279 Piet project, at http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm Includes some documentation on their load test of the built-up box spar. Very nice! I have to go back and read the construction notes in detail when I'm home this evening. And don't miss the pix and writeup where they first started the project... click on the '05-'06 link at the top. Includes some pix of all the metal fittings, including the tail surface hinges built per plans, not the Kapler style. Perfect for your iced-in, stormed-out evening viewing pleasure, especially you guys in Oklahoma. Jim-? You surviving the ice? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2007
Subject: Re: some really nice pix!
That's great Jim, enough about you. Is the shop still standing and is the Piet Okay? John Just teasing I hope all is Okay at the farm for the family. Being out of power is no fun especially if you need it for heat. Safe Travels **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: some really nice pix!
Date: Dec 12, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 5:42 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some really nice pix! That's great Jim, enough about you. Is the shop still standing and is the Piet Okay? John Just teasing I hope all is Okay at the farm for the family. Being out of power is no fun especially if you need it for heat. Safe Travels ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2007
Subject: Re: some really nice pix!
Jim, I was worried, but glad to see you covered the priorities in proper order, Piets safe and secure, oh ya and the family too! I know the feeling, I got tons of mental build hours in mine too, I think that's part of the process. With my unused vacation for the year Friday is my last officinal work day for the year. That means I got almost 2 weeks to work on the Piet. I sure hope that time doesn't get absorbed with the continuation of the summer, the wife projects and requests. I am hoping for 2 weeks of build time, I sure hope I have enough wood, glue and supplies put aside so I don't have to go shopping for anything. Well maybe a drill press would be a nice addition to the shop. All in all I am looking forward to the build and making saw dust again! Mental building is fun but sure doesn't compare to making noise, sawdust and airplanes. John **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2007
Subject: build vid
I sure wised I knew in the software biz that could give me some advice, I have a bunch of old out dated equipment, vid camera and capture device (Dazzle 80) with my XP computer software, it just doesn't connect to well so that I can keep the camera running during the build. Then I can prove my build hours and have the vid too that's that anyone would be interested in viewing it. Unfortunately all my Broadhead 07 video is on that format tape, not the full size vhs but the smaller tapes which I had intended on editing but have yet to be able to upload onto to my computer and put it all together as part of the Piet experience. Does anyone have any ideas on how to cobble together a system that would work using old outdated equipment. I would appreciate some ideas on the build cam concept. I sure wish I knew a Piet builder that was a software guy from Oklahoma that could make a suggestion on how to do it, or anyone else for that matter willing to provide advise and support to such a project. Thanks John **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 12, 2007
Subject: I Apogize to all!
My apologies to all who have had to suffer through my ramblings and poorly written emails, the first piece of advice I would expect from you would be for me to learn how to type and proof read. I do apologize John **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I Apogize to all!
Date: Dec 12, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
No ned to apologiZe ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: December 12, 2007 2:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I Apogize to all! My apologies to all who have had to suffer through my ramblings and poorly written emails, the first piece of advice I would expect from you would be for me to learn how to type and proof read. I do apologize John ________________________________ See AOL's top rated recipes <http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004> and easy ways to stay in shape <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003> for winter. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I Apogize to all!
heck....forget about all of us! When Santa find out how you have beaten us up with your rants and poor spellings...I would be making cookie if I were you! AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote: My apologies to all who have had to suffer through my ramblings and poorly written emails, the first piece of advice I would expect from you would be for me to learn how to type and proof read. I do apologize John --------------------------------- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2007
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: build vid
John, Based on what you wrote it sounds like you want to keep the camera running during the build to document it. I would think that, regardless of whether you use physical tape or digital, that is going to generate far too much video for you to want to deal with. As far as using that to document the build: no examiner is going to want to sit through thousands of hours of video. I would think that if you wanted to use video to document it that you should consider the video camera as a digicam with benefits. Finish a piece, then film it while you explain what you did. A few minutes footage of your progress, and explanation of what you did for a given shot. I would still say you should take pictures and log your progress, in case something happens to your video. If your computer is XP, and not too old, you should be able to process video. I looked up the Dazzle, and unfortunately did not see much good about it. It may be a matter of buying a decent video capture card to install into your computer, so you can capture video at a usable quality from whatever source you choose. Shoot me an email if you want, and I will do my best to walk you through the computer side of this. Hope that helps, Ryan AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote: I sure wised I knew in the software biz that could give me some advice, I have a bunch of old out dated equipment, vid camera and capture device (Dazzle 80) with my XP computer software, it just doesn't connect to well so that I can keep the camera running during the build. Then I can prove my build hours and have the vid too that's that anyone would be interested in viewing it. --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Well, after 3 months of on again, off again work I've successfully removed my fiberglass cowling from the male plug mold that I made. I laminated it up from 4 layers of fiberglass cloth using polyester resin, as described in the Tony Bingelis books, under the chapter "How to make a Fiberglass cowling, if you must". Now I know what ole Tony was talking about. It actually looks pretty nice and has some nice compound curves that would be impossible (for me) to duplicate in aluminum. What concerns me is it weighs 10 pounds. I have a J-3 aluminum cowl on my Baby Ace, and it only weighs about 2 pounds. The cub cowl is about 4 inches too short to fit my Piet, so that wasn't an option. I'll try to post a few pictures in the next few days, but what do you guys think about the weight? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 12, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: build vid
Hi, Thought I would chime in with something that I bought that made my life easy. I bought this thing called the Plextor Convert X about 5 years ago. You connect your analog video (VHS) into one set of connectors and get digital output for your computer. Not sure what type of tapes you have. I have a Canon video cam that uses small HD tapes. I can usually turn one of those tapes into video files in a couple hours. If you want, if you copy the tapes and they are are HD or VHS I can convert them to files and CDs or DVDs for you. ...for the sake of all the Brodhead enthusiasts. I bought the machine to make CDs of some video I had and really wished I used it more. It's a pretty handy thing for me to be hoarding. It's similar to the Dazzle thing but better. On 12/12/07, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote: > > I sure wised I knew in the software biz that could give me some advice, I > have a bunch of old out dated equipment, vid camera and capture device > (Dazzle 80) with my XP computer software, it just doesn't connect to well so > that I can keep the camera running during the build. Then I can prove my > build hours and have the vid too that's that anyone would be interested in > viewing it. > > Unfortunately all my Broadhead 07 video is on that format tape, not the > full size vhs but the smaller tapes which I had intended on editing but have > yet to be able to upload onto to my computer and put it all together as part > of the Piet experience. > > Does anyone have any ideas on how to cobble together a system that would > work using old outdated equipment. I would appreciate some ideas on the > build cam concept. > > I sure wish I knew a Piet builder that was a software guy from Oklahoma > that could make a suggestion on how to do it, or anyone else for that matter > willing to provide advise and support to such a project. > > > Thanks > > John > > > ------------------------------ > See AOL's top rated recipes<http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004>and easy > ways to stay in shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003>for winter. > > * > > * > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 13, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Ben, like most things the answer is - "it depends". It depends on how much your airplane weighs, on how short your home field is, how much YOU weigh, and a number of other factors. As I've indicated before on this list, I consider my Pietenpol to be too heavy at 745 lbs empty. Have I done anything about it? Not a thing, other than to add 5 lbs to my own useless load over Thanksgiving. Most Piets are tail heavy and having an additional 7 ot 8 pounds on the nose will mean you won't have to shift your wing quite as far aft as you would otherwise. Watch the weight in other areas and you should be fine. Areas where you can compensate include using lightweight fabric on your fuselage and tail surfaces. In addition to the fabric itself being lighter, the lightweight fabric doesn't require as many coats of dope or polyspray to fill the weave, and the weight of the finish coats can easily exceed the weight of the fabric. When I recover mine (hopefully not for another 25 years) that is what I will do, and I sure won't be using polyurethane paint. That stuff is incredibly heavy. I'll bet I'm carrying around at least 40 lbs of paint on my Piet. Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? Well, after 3 months of on again, off again work I've successfully removed my fiberglass cowling from the male plug mold that I made. I laminated it up from 4 layers of fiberglass cloth using polyester resin, as described in the Tony Bingelis books, under the chapter "How to make a Fiberglass cowling, if you must". Now I know what ole Tony was talking about. It actually looks pretty nice and has some nice compound curves that would be impossible (for me) to duplicate in aluminum. What concerns me is it weighs 10 pounds. I have a J-3 aluminum cowl on my Baby Ace, and it only weighs about 2 pounds. The cub cowl is about 4 inches too short to fit my Piet, so that wasn't an option. I'll try to post a few pictures in the next few days, but what do you guys think about the weight? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Ben, Jack Phillips answer is probably right on the money. "it depends". Heck, because of my weight I had to move the entire engine 4" forward to get a good CG., a big heavy cowling would probably do me good. But back to lightweight correctly made composite parts. You can make a composite cowling just as light as the AL on the cubbie BUT, lots of techniques and tricks involved. A) People who don't do a lot of composite parts always ALWAYS use too much resin. It makes the part nice and smooth looking, but makes it heavy. The resin doesn't make the part strong, the fabric does. I ran the composites workshop at Oshkosh for several years and the one key observation I came away with after watching 100's of novice potential composite homebuilders try their skills on trial composite parts.....homebuilders always want to use too much resin on their parts. One part by weight fabric to one part by weight mixed resin is a good laminate. 40% resin is better, but hard to do without vacuum bagging. B) Resin choice... Polyester resins tend to go on heavier than two part epoxies, making a resin rich heavy part. Polyesters resins belong on things like shower stalls not on airplanes. C) Carbon fabrics are lighter than fiberglass. Kevlar is lighter than carbon, but harder to work with. But choice of weave of fiberglass is important to get smooth finish without too much resin, open box weaves suck up a lot of resin. Try a tight closed satin weave like 7781, 3783 glass or 613 style in carbon. D) If you can, get a look at the first 10 pages of the instructions for a Longeze or Cozy. See if anyone in your EAA Chapter will let you read the intro by Rutan or Nat Puffer on how to get a lightweight composite laminate. Then try again with carbon weave 613 and epoxy to make your part on the plug, you'll be much happier with the result. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Charvet" <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? > > Well, after 3 months of on again, off again work I've successfully removed > my fiberglass cowling from the male plug mold that I made. I laminated it > up from 4 layers of fiberglass cloth using polyester resin, as described > in the Tony Bingelis books, under the chapter "How to make a Fiberglass > cowling, if you must". Now I know what ole Tony was talking about. It > actually looks pretty nice and has some nice compound curves that would be > impossible (for me) to duplicate in aluminum. What concerns me is it > weighs 10 pounds. I have a J-3 aluminum cowl on my Baby Ace, and it only > weighs about 2 pounds. The cub cowl is about 4 inches too short to fit my > Piet, so that wasn't an option. I'll try to post a few pictures in the > next few days, but what do you guys think about the weight? > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Sounds a bit heavy. Depending on how you did it you may have a lot of resin on the inside or outside or both. You might be able to sand a good bit of it away before you get to the glass. Then again, you might have a lot of resin inside the glass layers and might not be able to sand away much. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? Well, after 3 months of on again, off again work I've successfully removed my fiberglass cowling from the male plug mold that I made. I laminated it up from 4 layers of fiberglass cloth using polyester resin, as described in the Tony Bingelis books, under the chapter "How to make a Fiberglass cowling, if you must". Now I know what ole Tony was talking about. It actually looks pretty nice and has some nice compound curves that would be impossible (for me) to duplicate in aluminum. What concerns me is it weighs 10 pounds. I have a J-3 aluminum cowl on my Baby Ace, and it only weighs about 2 pounds. The cub cowl is about 4 inches too short to fit my Piet, so that wasn't an option. I'll try to post a few pictures in the next few days, but what do you guys think about the weight? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Hi It seems to me it would make sense to wax up the existing cowl and use that as a plug to make a new female mold. Then different cowlings could be pro duced Knowing the surface area a layed up weight can be calculated. In the boat business we would use glass "cloth ranging in weights from 1 oz to 32 oz de pending on the application. I would think a 3/4 oz mat and 18 oz roving wi th some local stiffners or some balsa core would be a good starting point. A lot of work for a few lbs of weight that will probably be in the right pl ace anyways. Steve snowed in in Maine with more coming this weekend. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 13, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Ben, If you are truly wanting an opinion about the weight of your cowling compared to man other fiberglass cowlings....I have your answer! The company, Fiberglass Specialties, Inc. Attn: Bob Snell located in Watertown, South Dakota is a manufacturer of fiberglass cowlings for most of the aviation industry! In his shop he has done cowlings for most of the airplanes you can mention. He is a great resource for information and he can also take special orders, one offs and many other things you may need. As for pricing...extremely fair and very reasonable. He is in business to have customers....not chase them away! I can assure you he can tell you if your cowling is within weight limits compared to the many he has done. Here is his phone number 605-886-9206 and please use my name and the pietenpol plane. He will remember. I stumbled upon him while in town killing time before a meeting and was wowed at his operation and the many cowling he does for aircraft manufacturers. Finally.... no information should be given without an exchange for ride in your pietenpol....deal? tee-hee-hee Ken H "Phillips, Jack" wrote: Ben, like most things the answer is - "it depends". It depends on how much your airplane weighs, on how short your home field is, how much YOU weigh, and a number of other factors. As I've indicated before on this list, I consider my Pietenpol to be too heavy at 745 lbs empty. Have I done anything about it? Not a thing, other than to add 5 lbs to my own useless load over Thanksgiving. Most Piets are tail heavy and having an additional 7 ot 8 pounds on the nose will mean you won't have to shift your wing quite as far aft as you would otherwise. Watch the weight in other areas and you should be fine. Areas where you can compensate include using lightweight fabric on your fuselage and tail surfaces. In addition to the fabric itself being lighter, the lightweight fabric doesn't require as many coats of dope or polyspray to fill the weave, and the weight of the finish coats can easily exceed the weight of the fabric. When I recover mine (hopefully not for another 25 years) that is what I will do, and I sure won't be using polyurethane paint. That stuff is incredibly heavy. I'll bet I'm carrying around at least 40 lbs of paint on my Piet. Good luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? Well, after 3 months of on again, off again work I've successfully removed my fiberglass cowling from the male plug mold that I made. I laminated it up from 4 layers of fiberglass cloth using polyester resin, as described in the Tony Bingelis books, under the chapter "How to make a Fiberglass cowling, if you must". Now I know what ole Tony was talking about. It actually looks pretty nice and has some nice compound curves that would be impossible (for me) to duplicate in aluminum. What concerns me is it weighs 10 pounds. I have a J-3 aluminum cowl on my Baby Ace, and it only weighs about 2 pounds. The cub cowl is about 4 inches too short to fit my Piet, so that wasn't an option. I'll try to post a few pictures in the next few days, but what do you guys think about the weight? Ben Charvet Mims, Fl _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Steve, Think using roving will absolutely make a very heavy composite part, never used in composite homebuilts for skins. Like the idea of using the current part as a female mold. Two plies of 6 oz. carbon with "hat sections" using 3 lb/cubic ft foam core where stiffeners are needed, does the trick. Carbon is stiff anyway, stiffen the edges where the two or three parts come apart is all that is needed on a 200 mph Cozy or Longeze. A Piete at 70 mph wouldn't need that much. Next time anyone sees a Longeze or better yet a Glassair on the flightline, give the cowling a good looking over. The skins are very thin with stiffener around the air outlet and inlet lips meet fuselage and along where the side piano hinge is laminated in. (pull the hinge pins and a couple screws to remove the cowl) Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Glass To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? Hi It seems to me it would make sense to wax up the existing cowl and use that as a plug to make a new female mold. Then different cowlings could be produced Knowing the surface area a layed up weight can be calculated. In the boat business we would use glass "cloth ranging in weights from 1 oz to 32 oz depending on the application. I would think a 3/4 oz mat and 18 oz roving with some local stiffners or some balsa core would be a good starting point. A lot of work for a few lbs of weight that will probably be in the right place anyways. Steve snowed in in Maine with more coming this weekend. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Ben, Before you become too concerned about your cowling weight, do a W & B to see if you need the additional weight up front. A lot of Piets are tail heavy and a heavy cowling may be a blessing. Just a thought Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: build vid
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Idea of having build video's is great. Not very practical. Start to finish you might have 1000-2000 hrs of video, maybe a bit more or less. However.. no one I know would watch 1000 hrs of video. To edit video and make something useful out of it you typically make at least three passes watching and editing each part, and most the material ends up being cut. The idea of not having to do anything to capture the video is questionable, as you would need a camera man keeping the right thing in the picture, zooming in when needed, etc. What you could do is to map out your activities ahead of time, and figure out what you want to capture, then capture it, adding all those things that happen that you didn't count on. Time wise that would amount to editing before you capture, and would reduce your 1000+ hrs of video to a small fraction of that (100 hrs-200hrs maybe), would force you to think it out ahead of time to. I am building my first plane and find it challenging to keep up a build log, get digital pictures, track expenses and still have enough time to get work done with all the zillion things that come up. So my experience is not from building planes, its from my work. At work I have to document how I built computer monitoring systems that are big and complex and take as long as a year to build. For that I have found it works far better to break project into key pieces, figure out what someone would need to know to accomplish the key things, then document those. It takes me about a week of total time to pull together a systems document from all my notes I do during that year of building a system. (Course its software so I can take all my pictures at the end, for construction you would need to do it during the build.) With Still pics I think this approach would work pretty good. Video is much harder to do well, setting up a camera and going in front of it to do stuff will suprise you, you will probably not be happy with one take, but will want to redo and redo the "scenes". Go for it if you can, but it would distract me from building to much to do it the way your thinking of doing it. Over the years I have written about twenty-five aprox 300 page books of documentation for my work, and its been manageable. Only one project did I use video's, and it took about 5-6 times as long and I hated the sound of my voice on them. Just some things to think about. Good luck, Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152018#152018 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: building log--keeping it simple
Date: Dec 13, 2007
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
My building log tools consisted of three things: 1) yellow sticky note pads 2) a couple accordion manila file folders 3) camera If you have a camera with a date stamp you can skip item 1. I would order what I needed from Wicks, ACS, or Dillsburg Aero or even the hardware store and file those invoices under several different folders like: Airframe, Engine & prop, Covering, Instruments. I would take pics once in a while of my progress using the yellow sticky note on the parts or assembly to date the event. When my inspection came I had the folders with all of my purchases spread out neatly and my photos pasted on some white posterboards in chronological order. Simple as that. Nothing elaborate is necessary at all and if it it, get a different DAR or inspector or read the regs and fight them at the nearest MIDO office. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Have similar concern. My cowling has a big oval opening on it that needs some kind of cover over it. (Opening is about two foot long and a foot wide.) My engine is a 125hp ENMA Tigre with a couple giant magnetos on the top of the back end of the engine. First thought was lay something about as thick as the clearance I need over the mags and engine, then make a dam around the opening and use the shape as a male mold to make the big hood bump thing out of fiberglass. To be able to access the mags without removing the whole cowling the bump would have to sit on top of the aluminum cowling. Then there would need to be some kind of fasteners, that would attach the bump to the cowling, and a means of dealing with fiberglass not expanding contracting at same rate as aluminum. Also the design is vintage 1930's, but a glass bump is more 1970's. So, I started looking in to what it would take to make a bump out of aluminum, and watched some you tube video's on aluminum forming. Turns out compound curves can be made with a good deal of effort, people that are in to that kind of thing can make reproduction Ryan radial cowlings from sheet aluminum, complete with the bumps for each cylinder. I spent the last 2 days trying to take my aluminum leading edge for the center section of the wing and polish it out like a mirror. (Plan on having wood polyurethaned and natural looking, and the aluminum shiny, rather than covering it like everyone else does.) Its taken 3 times the work I thought it would and I am only half done. Will have about a week in getting the center section pretty by the time I am done. Should make my plane distinctive, but I can tell you now there are no Luscombes or Swifts in my future. My point being that aluminum is light, and can be made pretty, but it takes a lot of work to make something curvy and nice out of it. Flat pieces rivet together quick, and paint pretty easy, but its hard to get something that looks really nice without a lot of effort in the design or the construction or both. The factories tend to use a fiberglass nose bowl so they can have some compound curves, then make the bulk of the cowling out of fairly simple flat aluminum sheet. If you already sank the time in to making a mold and your cowling looks good, then move on to something else. When your plane is done you can always revisit it. How many hrs and $$ will it take to save how many pounds? Do you have big flat areas on your cowling that could be replaced with aluminum? Maybe your curvy part could serve as a nose bowl. I have been looking for a simple aluminum hood scoop design made up of all flat pieces or with very easy to do compound parts. So far no luck. But rather than dwell on it I am moving on. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152030#152030 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Jack Textor's Control Horns
Date: Dec 13, 2007
Jack, I was looking at the photos on your web page (www.textors.com) and noticed you have some good looking control horns. Would you please share with us how you formed the control horns. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jack Textor's Control Horns
Date: Dec 14, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Chris, After trying many different methods I used a bead roller from Harbor Freight. I have the 18" model, but the 12" would be most adequate. Even after rolling, it took some tapping with a dead blow brass hammer at the nose and the tips to flatten. And a little grinding under the center tips. I was very happy how they turned out and the pro welder I took them to said the good fit made it easy to weld. Wish I had his talent for welding. I own a mig, tig and gas welders and still stink. I was dreading doing the control system but it has really been a nice change. It looks like your project is really coming along. Again thanks for your website, it has been most helpful. If you send me your address, I will mail you cd's of my project to post. I posted some new pictures on my site of the roller. They are on the Piet Project page, at the bottom. Take care, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh?
Date: Dec 14, 2007
Hi Gordon I understand what you are saying but the cowling is a structual part and no t just a skin. 1 layer of 18 oz roving will weigh the same as 3 layers of 6 oz. There are many different ways to get the weight down. Does anybody else ha ve some typical cowling layups? Send Steve From: gbowen(at)ptialaska.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:42:58 -0900 Steve, Think using roving will absolutely make a very heavy composite part, never used in composite homebuilts for skins. Like the idea of using the current part as a female mold. Two plies of 6 oz. carbon with "hat sections" using 3 lb/cubic ft foam core where stiffeners are need ed, does the trick. Carbon is stiff anyway, stiffen the edges where the two or three parts come apart is all that is needed on a 200 mph Cozy or Longeze. A Piete at 70 mph wouldn't need that much. Next time anyone sees a Longeze or better yet a Glassair on the flightline, give the cowling a good looking over. The skins are very thin with stiffener around the air outlet and inlet lips meet fuselage and along where the side piano hinge is laminated in. (pull the hinge pins and a couple screws to remove the cowl) Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Glass To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What should a fiberglass cowling weigh? Hi It seems to me it would make sense to wax up the existing cowl and use that as a plug to make a new female mold. Then different cowlings could be produced Knowing the surface area a layed up weight can be calculated. In the boat business we would use glass "cloth ranging in weights from 1 oz to 32 oz depending on the application. I would think a 3/4 oz mat and 18 oz roving with some local stiffners or so me balsa core would be a good starting point. A lot of work for a few lbs of weight that will probably be in the right place anyways. Steve snowed in in Maine with more coming this weekend. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 15, 2007
Subject: jury strut bracket placement
Since the original plans doesn't have anything on jury struts. What is the distance between the jury strut bracket and the wing strut bracket? Ted Stone **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: jury strut bracket placement
Date: Dec 15, 2007
On NX18235 the jury struts are at the mid-point of the lift strut. Some people will recommend placing the jury strut slightly offset from the mid-point to avoid harmonic resonance but in 120 hours of flying I have yet to notice any lift strut vibration with the jury strut located at the mid-point. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 4:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: jury strut bracket placement Since the original plans doesn't have anything on jury struts. What is the distance between the jury strut bracket and the wing strut bracket? Ted Stone ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jury strut bracket placement
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 15, 2007
Ted, I did the same as Greg. I also haven't noticed anything, vibration or otherwise, out of the ordinary. I did this because it is what Frank Pavliga did and he has about 1400 hours. One of the really nice things about the Piet is that there are so many high time ships out there that are so well proven. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152321#152321 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron bearings
Date: Dec 15, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Good morning all, For the aileron bearings outer housing, where they attach to the spar, Bernard shows 3/16" holes for an AN3 bolt. I was planning on drilling for an AN4, but doing so will complicate the welding of the lugs. It looks like I would have to weld the lug on much wider than the width of the pulley to clear the bolt head. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: cowling construction
Date: Dec 15, 2007
I'm with Gordon and the others... it makes more sense to add stiffeners whe re needed rather than making the whole piece heavier with multiple layers o f glass to add stiffness. It was easy to do with the belly of my Flying Sq uirrel, for example... look at the 4th through 6th photos on this page - ht tp://www.flysquirrel.net/update.html All you have to do is lay some foam wedges inbetween the layers, or even ad d them after you've made the cowling and pull it from the mold to see where you need additional stiffness. It's amazing how much rigidity that 3rd di mension can add to a flat layup. One other thing that people have told me is to use peel-ply on your layup ( assuming you're laying up over a male plug). It absorbs excess resin as we ll as providing a much nicer surface to do final finishing on once you peel it off. Work in a warm area, too... working when it's cool means you'll b e using more resin to get it to wet out the plies. Use your squeegee. Epo xy resin is heavy! Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://w ww.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 15, 2007
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Fly in at DLZ next summer
Hi Guys, Dad went to a eaa meeting today for the fly in at DLZ on August 16-17 2008. Dad is wanting to try and get some piets there. It would be great to get 4-5 there if possible. I am signed up to take young eagle rides, and get some kids a ride in a "real airplane". The Yankee Lady b-17 is supposed to be there, some of Dick Packer's Stearmans ( 3 of them I think) and the usual RV crowd. I will extend an invite to anyone who would like to camp out behind my hanger at Chapman Field, it's about a 20 min flight from DLZ. By the way I went for a weather reporting flight in the Piet today (30 degrees) right before the snow came in, withdraw is a hell of a thing. 10 min after landing it was a white out. Only bad thing is the field was not a frozzen as I thought, now it looks like a swamp buggy with all the mud. Oh well a small price to pay. So if any of you Ohio guys would like to fly to Delaware OH (30 miles north of Columbus) this summer let me know. 110 hrs on NX92 GB and counting Shad --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: cowling construction
Date: Dec 15, 2007
Oscar, Nice pics, looks nice and lightweight. To quote a great designer/aviator "if you throw it up in the air and it comes back down, don't put it on your airplane". Stippling and squeeging out as much resin as possible thru the peel ply works wonders for keeping the laminate lightweight, using paper towels or rags to sop-up/wipe off the excess resin you can work out thru the peel ply.. At Boeing composites and Bigboys, they put down a peel ply, then a perforated teflon film, then a "baby blanket" (the polyester stuff quilts are filled with), then vacuum bag, put it autoclave under 4-5 atmospheres pressure. This squeezes out the absolute most excess resin out of the laminate. Physical testing indicates about 38% resin content maximizes the laminates properties without being too poor in resin content. Without autoclave pressure, it's impossible for a homebuilder to get the laminate too resin poor, it's always gonna be a little resin rich. Once you get over 40% resin content you contribute nothing to the laminates physical properties, the props actually start to decline and you're only adding more weight to the plane. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 7:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling construction I'm with Gordon and the others... it makes more sense to add stiffeners where needed rather than making the whole piece heavier with multiple layers of glass to add stiffness. It was easy to do with the belly of my Flying Squirrel, for example... look at the 4th through 6th photos on this page - http://www.flysquirrel.net/update.html All you have to do is lay some foam wedges inbetween the layers, or even add them after you've made the cowling and pull it from the mold to see where you need additional stiffness. It's amazing how much rigidity that 3rd dimension can add to a flat layup. One other thing that people have told me is to use peel-ply on your layup (assuming you're laying up over a male plug). It absorbs excess resin as well as providing a much nicer surface to do final finishing on once you peel it off. Work in a warm area, too... working when it's cool means you'll be using more resin to get it to wet out the plies. Use your squeegee. Epoxy resin is heavy! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rice" <rice(at)iapdatacom.net>
Subject: Re: Cowling Construction
Date: Dec 16, 2007
Fiberglass cowlings? Why not use metal? It's light, simple, looks "antiquey", and there's no exposure to nasty chemicals. The cowling I made for my Micro Mong is all simple conicals except for the upper corners of the nose bowl, which I cut out of a stainless steel salad bowl. If any of you want photos, drop me an email and I'll send them to you. This airplane hasn't flown yet, so I'd keep my mouth shut if I hadn't heard of so many other builders doing similar things successfully. Larry the Micro Mong guy PS. I really don't have anything against 'glass, if you like to mess with that kind of stuff, but there are ways to do it in metal that are not hard or time consuming, contrary to rumor. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Model A engine
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2007
Hi all, I'm new to the forum with some Model A engine questions. I saw somewhere on the internet a couple of recommended Model A engine books but can't remember where I saw the posting. Any guesses? I live in Minnesota, any recommendations as to where to find a good core motor? Thanks, Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152531#152531 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: tailwheel
Date: Dec 16, 2007
Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have a ccess to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" em ail here pretty soon...Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail .comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Model A engine
Date: Dec 16, 2007
Matt, Where in Minnesota are you located? If you are near the twin cities check the bulletin board at Little Dearborn Auto Parts. They specialize in old Ford stuff. They are located at: 2424 University Ave. SE Minneapolis, MN 55414 612 331-2066 Cheers, Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engine > > Hi all, > > I'm new to the forum with some Model A engine questions. > I saw somewhere on the internet a couple of recommended Model A engine > books but can't remember where I saw the posting. Any guesses? > > I live in Minnesota, any recommendations as to where to find a good core > motor? > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152531#152531 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A engine
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 16, 2007
Thanks Greg, I'm up by Duluth but I'll check out Little Dearborn. Thanks, Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152635#152635 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 16, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Model A engine
Matt, I have family in Duluth and travel their almost weekly...Be neat to hook up with you. Send an address and information along with telephone and I'll stop in next trip! Ken Heide MF wrote: Thanks Greg, I'm up by Duluth but I'll check out Little Dearborn. Thanks, Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152635#152635 Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: tailwheel
Date: Dec 17, 2007
I have a Matco 6" solid tire tailwheel on my Taylorcraft. Flown it about 60 hours so far and I really like it. Especially considering it cost me only a couple hundred bucks compared to over $1000 for a Scott equivalent. DJ Vegh ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" email here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: tailwheel
Date: Dec 17, 2007
I had a Matco on my KR and it worked good. Have you considered the Aviation Products wheels which are sold as the homebuilder special wheeels by Spruce? They are lighter than the Matco and are very good. If you take off the Scott you can sell it for probably more than the cost of a new Matco depending on the condition. I have sold some pretty beat up Scotts for $200 and I have seen them in good shape on Barnstormers for over $400. They are somewhere around $1,000 new. A lot of people withe certified planes remove their Maule tailwheels which have a lot of shimmy problems and replace them with the Scott. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:35 PM To: Pietenpol List Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" email here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: jury strut bracket placement
Date: Dec 17, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
My jury struts are slightly off center, to avoid the dreaded harmonic resonence, but more practically, to put them at a convenient place to attach them to the spar. Jack Phillips NX899JP Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 9:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: jury strut bracket placement Ted, I did the same as Greg. I also haven't noticed anything, vibration or otherwise, out of the ordinary. I did this because it is what Frank Pavliga did and he has about 1400 hours. One of the really nice things about the Piet is that there are so many high time ships out there that are so well proven. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152321#152321 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron bearings
Date: Dec 17, 2007
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Jack, Why do you want to use bigger bolts? Granted, using 1/4" bolts will give you almost twice the strength of 3/16" bolts, but if you're using AN bolts, the 3/16" size will give you approximately 2600 lb in shear, and 2800 lb in tension (per bolt). If you're going to be putting that kind of load on your aileron pulleys, you've got other, bigger concerns to worry about (like ripping the bolts through the spars, for one). So. I'm guessing that you must have some other reason(s) for wanting to "super-size" your fasteners. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron bearings
Date: Dec 17, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Thanks for the good thoughts Bill! AN3 will be much better. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: wasnt someone looking for GN1 plans recently?
Date: Dec 17, 2007
just came across a set on ebay see item number: 180195579860 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Dec 17, 2007
Subject: tailwheel
I've been flying with the Matco 6" solid tailwheel for 10 years and 300+ h ours. Only maintenance item so far has been to flip the wheel around to co mbat a wear pattern. I'd recommend it. Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have a ccess to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" em ail here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 17, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: tailwheel
FYI Matco now has a pneumatic version of its tailwheel which is a little heavier and a little more money. I asked them why anyone would want this and they the main reason is its quieter. Of course we open cockpit Peitenpolers don't care about a little extra noise do we? Rick On Dec 17, 2007 8:53 AM, Steve Eldredge wrote: > I've been flying with the Matco 6" solid tailwheel for 10 years and 300+ > hours. Only maintenance item so far has been to flip the wheel around to > combat a wear pattern. I'd recommend it. > > > Steve E. > > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Oscar Zuniga > *Sent:* Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:35 PM > *To:* Pietenpol List > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: tailwheel > > > Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it > works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might > have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. > > Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" > email here pretty soon... > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tailwheel
Date: Dec 17, 2007
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
What Noise? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: December 17, 2007 1:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel FYI Matco now has a pneumatic version of its tailwheel which is a little heavier and a little more money. I asked them why anyone would want this and they the main reason is its quieter. Of course we open cockpit Peitenpolers don't care about a little extra noise do we? Rick On Dec 17, 2007 8:53 AM, Steve Eldredge wrote: I've been flying with the Matco 6" solid tailwheel for 10 years and 300+ hours. Only maintenance item so far has been to flip the wheel around to combat a wear pattern. I'd recommend it. Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" email here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: jury strut bracket placement
Date: Dec 17, 2007
I made my wing struts from Aeronca front and Taylorcraft rear struts some 38 years ago. The welded-in bushings on the Aeronca struts (for jury strut attachment) were located in such a way that, when the struts were cut to length for the Pietenpol, the jury struts joined the lift struts about 6 inches outboard from the mid point. At the time, I never even considered the possibility of harmonic vibration; the jury strut position was dictated by the bushing placement. So, quite by accident, my jury strut attachment avoids the possibility of harmonic vibration developing. And as a bonus, my jury struts are shorter (and lighter!). Several have stated that mounting the jury struts at the mid point hasn't caused any problems, but it still is good practice to place them slightly off the mid point of the lift struts. I was lucky in my ignorance some 38 years ago. [As an aside, I flew my Pietenpol last Friday (Dec.14) for 30 minutes--quite long enough at -5 degrees C (about 23 degrees F) with an 85 mph wind blowing past one's ears. The airplane didn't mind it, but I was glad to get back on the ground to warm up. I'm not as tough as I used to be; perhaps a bit smarter, but not much.] Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tailwheel
Date: Dec 17, 2007
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Oscar, Flying and landing with it on Pietenpol NX15KV, I would?use it again. What's up with SWRFI ? no more Hondo Fly-inn? Hans -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 8:35 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel?? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter.? I might have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. ? Thanks.? And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" email here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 17, 2007
Subject: Re: jury strut bracket placement
In a message dated 12/17/2007 9:04:05 AM Central Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes: My jury struts are slightly off center, to avoid the dreaded harmonic resonence, but more practically, to put them at a convenient place to attach them to the spar. ditto for mine. Chuck G. NX770CG **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: tailwheel
Date: Dec 17, 2007
I have a solid Matco on NX2RN and have been happy with it. I dont notice any noise. I have the new inflatable 6" Matco on NX25RN and I'm happy with that also, it just looks nicer. The inflatable is actually a couple of ounced lighter than solid. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" email here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Model A engine
Date: Dec 17, 2007
Welcome to the list Matt. Greg is right, Little Dearborne is a great place for all old Ford parts. I'm north of St. Paul, there are lots of us around here. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A engine > > Hi all, > > I'm new to the forum with some Model A engine questions. > I saw somewhere on the internet a couple of recommended Model A engine > books but can't remember where I saw the posting. Any guesses? > > I live in Minnesota, any recommendations as to where to find a good core > motor? > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152531#152531 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: kmordecai001(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Matco Tailwheel
Date: Dec 18, 2007
Oscar, I installed a 6" Matco on NX520SF last year, to replace the used Scott 2000 that she came with. I'm pleased with it, but had to shorten my leafspring (shortened J3) to keep the wheelbase about the same. The Matco's tire contact patch is much farther aft of the mounting bolt hole than the Scott. The whole assembly is about 2 - 2.5" longer. This gives it a longer lever arm and resulted in more spring flex, to the point that the Matco's steering axis was angled aft rather than forward when loaded. Shortening the spring put it back where it belongs. Still using the Scott tension springs, and it works great. Steers easily and does not release until you want it to. They redesigned the mount last year to reduce steering effort. Added another .75" to the length of the kingpin and bushing, and added a grease fitting, so make sure you get the newer design. I think it's a well engineered design and recommend it. Dave Mordecai Panacea, FL NX520SF > From: Oscar Zuniga > Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel > > > Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works > great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have a > ccess to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. >
Oscar,

I installed a 6" Matco on NX520SF last year, to replace the used Scott 2000 that she came with. I'm pleased with it, but had to shorten my leafspring (shortened J3) to keep the wheelbase about the same.

The Matco's tire contact patch is much farther aft of the mounting bolt hole than the Scott. The whole assembly is about 2 - 2.5" longer. This gives it a longer lever arm and resulted in more spring flex, to the point that the Matco's steering axis was angled aft rather than forward when loaded. Shortening the spring put it back where it belongs. Still using the Scott tension springs, and it works great. Steers easily and does not release until you want it to. They redesigned the mount last year to reduce steering effort. Added another .75" to the length of the kingpin and bushing, and added a grease fitting, so make sure you get the newer design. I think it's a well engineered design and recommend it.

Dave Mordecai

Panacea, FL

NX520SF

<DIV>> From: Oscar Zuniga <TAILDRAGS(at)HOTMAIL.COM><BR>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel
>
>
> Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works
> great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have a
> ccess to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it.
>

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: tailwheel
Date: Dec 17, 2007
even lighter when inflated with hydrogen ;) DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick Navratil To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel I have a solid Matco on NX2RN and have been happy with it. I dont notice any noise. I have the new inflatable 6" Matco on NX25RN and I'm happy with that also, it just looks nicer. The inflatable is actually a couple of ounced lighter than solid. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel Is anybody flying with the 6" Matco tailwheel? I have a Scott and it works great but was wondering about the Matco, which is lighter. I might have access to one so I was wondering what the feedback is on it. Thanks. And I guess I'll have to post the "Santa and the FAA checkride" email here pretty soon... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: tailwheel
Date: Dec 18, 2007
I was not in the market for a new tailwheel, just thinking about picking up a used Matco that is available. It would be the older design. Hans, as far as SWRFI in Hondo, I believe the word is that EAA headquarters has ruled that the regional fly-ins can't use "EAA" in the name and can't use the headquarters insurance blanket, so it would be prohibitively expens ive for each regional fly-in to insure and operate independently. While th ere is something to be said for the big regional fly-ins, Pietenpolers seem to gravitate more toward the down-home, grass field, family events anyway. I was a little gun-shy about flying into Hondo NORDO anyway, what with al l the fast guys zooming all over the place. We'll see if the other regiona l fly-ins fall by the wayside as well. Probably not Sun 'n' Fun, but some of the others. So here's the story of Santa and the FAA checkride: === Santa Claus, like all pilots, gets regular visits from the Federal Aviation Administration, and it was shortly before Christmas when the FAA examiner arrived. In preparation, Santa had the elves wash the sled and bathe all the reindee r. Santa got his logbook out and made sure all his paperwork was in order. The examiner walked slowly around the sled. He checked the reindeer harness es, the landing gear, and Rudolf's nose. He painstakingly reviewed Santa's weight and balance calculations for the sled's enormous payload. Finally, they were ready for the checkride. Santa got in, fastened his seat belt and shoulder harness, and checked the compass. Then the examiner hoppe d in carrying, to Santa's surprise, a shotgun. "What's that for?" asked Santa incredulously. The examiner winked and said, "I'm not supposed to tell you this, but you'r e gonna lose an engine on takeoff." ===================== Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://w ww.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rib Re-inforcing tapes
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Dec 18, 2007
I am about ready to do the final stretch on the horizontal stab fabric and then rib stitch. I have never used the self sticking tape before.do I need to stick it on and stitch first or brush on the first coat of poly brush and then stick it on? always just had plain tape before.Thanks.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152969#152969 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib Re-inforcing tapes
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 18, 2007
If you follow the sequence in the Poly-Fiber Manual you seal the fabric with poly-brush prior to applying the re-inforcing tape. After you apply the reinforcing tapes and rib stitch, this tape will get a coat of poly-brush applied prior to the application of the pinked finishing tapes. ( Hint ) use a straight edge and a number 2 pencil to draw two parallel lines 1 inch from the center on both sides of each rib. Apply the bed of poly-brush between the lines. Cut your tapes with a razor blade by holding the blade perpindicular to the fabric and pulling the tape against the blade. This is how the Pro's from Poly Fiber do it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152993#152993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib Re-inforcing tapes
From: "skellytownflyer" <hanover(at)centramedia.net>
Date: Dec 18, 2007
Thanks-that is what I read and have done in the past.however the self sticking tapes are new to me and I didn't know if they were out when the manual was written.the only guy I have asked that has used the stick on tapes says he installs it before coating the polybrush and it worked for him.but like you I read the manual to say the brush coat first.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153026#153026 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rib Re-inforcing tapes
Date: Dec 19, 2007
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I found it very useful to put a couple of coats of PolyBrush straight onto the reinforcing tape before putting down the finish tape. That reinforcing tape really sucks up the Polybrush and if you don't have it pretty well saturated and sealed with Polybrush before putting down the finish tapes, the finish tape will be "dry" in the area around the reinforcing tape. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwilson Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Re-inforcing tapes If you follow the sequence in the Poly-Fiber Manual you seal the fabric with poly-brush prior to applying the re-inforcing tape. After you apply the reinforcing tapes and rib stitch, this tape will get a coat of poly-brush applied prior to the application of the pinked finishing tapes. ( Hint ) use a straight edge and a number 2 pencil to draw two parallel lines 1 inch from the center on both sides of each rib. Apply the bed of poly-brush between the lines. Cut your tapes with a razor blade by holding the blade perpindicular to the fabric and pulling the tape against the blade. This is how the Pro's from Poly Fiber do it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152993#152993 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 20, 2007
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: aircamper project
Hi I keep thinking I'm going to finish my piet one day, but business pressures and since I have a flying sonex that I like very well is starting to convince me that I should offer my piet to someone who would like to finish it, its a long fuse made from spruce and is complete with a 1 piece wing including most of the metal parts all painted ready to assemble, it needs engine mt, struts, cabanes, and tailwheel setup. It needs the tail feathers completed. I have most of the guages. $2500? best offer takes. I get out east quite often, so I may be able to deliver it to your doorstep. Email me off list for more details at delmagsam(at)rocketmail.com Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aircamper project
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 21, 2007
That's a nice offering I wish I wasn't already so commited to my own project. I would jump all over that one even though. I question my own ability to get mine finished John Just kinda thinking out loud without saying the words' Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:36:10 To:piet aircamper Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircamper project Hi I keep thinking I'm going to finish my piet one day, but business pressures and since I have a flying sonex that I like very well is starting to convince me that I should offer my piet to someone who would like to finish it, its a long fuse made from spruce and is complete with a 1 piece wing including most of the metal parts all painted ready to assemble, it needs engine mt, struts, cabanes, and tailwheel setup. It needs the tail feathers completed. I have most of the guages. $2500? best offer takes. I get out east quite often, so I may be able to deliver it to your doorstep. Email me off list for more details at delmagsam(at)rocketmail.com Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 21, 2007
Subject: Merry Christmas, everyone
Guys, Since the list is so quiet, I would like to take this opportunity to extend a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all who frequent this list. Here's hoping that all of you can take this time of joy and celebration to spend time with loved ones and recharge your souls. I am taking my own advise and will join my whole entire family in Disney World starting Jan. 3rd. Really looking forward to it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 21, 2007
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas, everyone
And a Very Merry Christmas to you, too, Dan! Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Merry Christmas, everyone Guys, Since the list is so quiet, I would like to take this opportunity to extend a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all who frequent this list. Here's hoping that all of you can take this time of joy and celebration to spend time with loved ones and recharge your souls. I am taking my own advise and will join my whole entire family in Disney World starting Jan. 3rd. Really looking forward to it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: aircamper project
Date: Dec 21, 2007
Hi Del, Where are you located? Ca.? Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of del magsam Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircamper project Hi I keep thinking I'm going to finish my piet one day, but business pressures and since I have a flying sonex that I like very well is starting to convince me that I should offer my piet to someone who would like to finish it, its a long fuse made from spruce and is complete with a 1 piece wing including most of the metal parts all painted ready to assemble, it needs engine mt, struts, cabanes, and tailwheel setup. It needs the tail feathers completed. I have most of the guages. $2500? best offer takes. I get out east quite often, so I may be able to deliver it to your doorstep. Email me off list for more details at delmagsam(at)rocketmail.com Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Flighttime Radio Show
Date: Dec 21, 2007
Just wanted to let you guys know that Milford Shirley and I will be hosting a new aviation talk radio show on AM 1320 in Jacksonville starting on January 5. It will be on Saturday mornings from 9 until 10 AM Eastern time. It is available online live and we are also going to try and archive the shows and have them on our web site. It is either going to be a lot of fun or very embarrassing. Tune in and check it out. Our web site with the link for listening is at www.flighttimeradio.com. Feel free to spread the word to all of your airplane loving friends so that we can be very successful or really auger it in with a bang. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: aircamper project
Date: Dec 21, 2007
For anyone looking for a project underway, jump on this one. I've seen Del's Piet project, he has done some very nice work. He is about 40 mi NE of St. Paul, Mn. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: del magsam To: piet aircamper Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: aircamper project Hi I keep thinking I'm going to finish my piet one day, but business pressures and since I have a flying sonex that I like very well is starting to convince me that I should offer my piet to someone who would like to finish it, its a long fuse made from spruce and is complete with a 1 piece wing including most of the metal parts all painted ready to assemble, it needs engine mt, struts, cabanes, and tailwheel setup. It needs the tail feathers completed. I have most of the guages. $2500? best offer takes. I get out east quite often, so I may be able to deliver it to your doorstep. Email me off list for more details at delmagsam(at)rocketmail.com Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph and Carol" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: oil on wood
Date: Dec 22, 2007
Last winter I stored my wings, leading edge down, leaning against an old car in a storage garage. Unfortunately the automatic transmission leaked oil onto the floor and it soaked into about three feet of the leading edge and up two or three ribs to the spar. I have not yet applied the plywood leading edge cover. I am seeking advice for removing the oil so that T-88 will adhere to the wood. Any suggestions? Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: oil on wood
Date: Dec 22, 2007
Hi Ralph If I had that problem I would try wiping it off with clean rags and acetone 3 or four times. It is extremely flammable so watch out if you have an op en flame anywhere such as a gas hotwater heater. Steve From: ralphhsd(at)itctel.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil on wood Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:59:48 -0600 Last winter I stored my wings, leading edge down, leaning against an old car in a storage garage. Unfortunately the automatic transmission leaked oil onto the floor and it soaked into about t hree feet of the leading edge and up two or three ribs to the spar. I have not yet applied the plywood leading edge cover. I am seeking advice for removing the oil so that T-88 will adhere to the wood. Any suggestions? Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: oil on wood
Date: Dec 22, 2007
When I used to build a lot of radio controled planes it was common to sometimes get balsa soaked with fuel or exhaust which contained castor or synthetic oil. We used to use a product called K2R which is used for stain removal from fabrics, carpet, etc. You can buy it from grocery stores, probably Wal Mart, etc. I have not tried it on harder woods yet, but I have some plywood and spruce that oil spilled on recently that I need to clean myself the next time I get to the store and buy some. Here is a link so you know what it looks like. http://www.k2rbrands.com/products/original.htm Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ralph and Carol Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 9:00 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil on wood Last winter I stored my wings, leading edge down, leaning against an old car in a storage garage. Unfortunately the automatic transmission leaked oil onto the floor and it soaked into about three feet of the leading edge and up two or three ribs to the spar. I have not yet applied the plywood leading edge cover. I am seeking advice for removing the oil so that T-88 will adhere to the wood. Any suggestions? Ralph ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: oil on wood
Date: Dec 22, 2007
Hi Ralph, Been a long time since I posted, but I can speak to this. MEK is even better than acetone as a solvent for removing oil, but you must do it where there is great ventilation - I prefer to work with MEK outside if at all. Apply a heavy 'dose' the first time - enough so its dripping, then wipe down 3-4 times with a well-saturated rag. If you had the capability, it would even be better if you could fashion some sort of a trough and actually soak the oil out of the wood through 3-4 changes of MEK. Good luck! Kip Gardner On Dec 22, 2007, at 9:33 AM, Steve Glass wrote: > Hi Ralph > > If I had that problem I would try wiping it off with clean rags and > acetone 3 or four times. It is extremely flammable so watch out if > you have an open flame anywhere such as a gas hotwater heater. > > Steve > > > From: ralphhsd(at)itctel.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: oil on wood > Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:59:48 -0600 > > Last winter I stored my wings, leading edge down, leaning against > an old car in a storage garage. Unfortunately the automatic > transmission leaked oil onto the floor and it soaked into about > three feet of the leading edge and up two or three ribs to the > spar. I have not yet applied the plywood leading edge cover. I am > seeking advice for removing the oil so that T-88 will adhere to > the wood. Any suggestions? > > Ralph > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Center Section Assembly
Date: Dec 22, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Hi all, Can anyone share with me the best order of assembling the center section? I have learned it's best not to cap the end ribs with the ply. Wishing everyone the best Holiday! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Plans Page Missing?
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2007
I was looking through my plans and can't find a page that specs out the straight axel landing gear. I do see it in the flying and glider manual. Is F&G the only place to see dimensions on the straight axel gear? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153799#153799 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Center Section Assembly
Jack, I wouldn't cap the ribs with ply. It's not in the plans, and there is no reason for it. There are just too many times where you have to have access thru that area. Just make sure the "root" ribs (outboard on the center section, and the root of the wings) have the extra rib sticks, as per plans, and have the 2" wide (I think) ply on the rib perimiter to stop fabric causing distortion. PS after re reading your email, not sure if the 2" wide is what you mean. Cause you do need that. walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center Section Assembly Hi all, Can anyone share with me the best order of assembling the center section? I have learned it's best not to cap the end ribs with the ply. Wishing everyone the best Holiday! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 23, 2007
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Glenn, Yes, the only specs for this are in the F&G manual. Save yourself a whole lot of heartache, and go directly to Chris Tracy's sight Westcoastpiet.com and see his special section on his step-by step procedure he used to construct this SA gear. I struggled through it and wasted MUCH time and energy. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Glenn, My plans are the same way. I have a copy of the F&G pages if you need them. Ben Glenn Thomas wrote: > > I was looking through my plans and can't find a page that specs out the straight axel landing gear. I do see it in the flying and glider manual. Is F&G the only place to see dimensions on the straight axel gear? > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153799#153799 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area??
Date: Dec 23, 2007
I think I have asked this before, but is anyone in the RDU area? I have a couple of overnights there, Christmas eve and day, and was wondering if there are any projects close by rather than sitting in a hotel room on Christmas. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Thanks a lot guys! I have the F&G and just finished scanning and enlarging all the sections of the drawing into several pages. They're good drawings. I'll also refer to Chris's excellent site as well. I was just wondering how that drawing didn't make it into the larger group of drawings. Merry Christmas! On 12/23/07, Ben Charvet wrote: > > > Glenn, > My plans are the same way. I have a copy of the F&G pages if you need > them. > > Ben > Glenn Thomas wrote: > glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> > > > > I was looking through my plans and can't find a page that specs out the > straight axel landing gear. I do see it in the flying and glider > manual. Is F&G the only place to see dimensions on the straight axel gear? > > > > -------- > > Glenn Thomas > > N????? > > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153799#153799 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Center Section Assembly
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Walt, Thanks for the note and pictures, they were helpful. Yes, I was talking about the 2" strip of ply. Is it best to start the assembly by gluing the end ribs to the spars? I assume I need to wait on the lower compression struts until the cabane straps are in place. Also, on the straps, should I drill them to the spars before assembly or align them and drill after everything is put together? So many questions! Thanks! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Center Section Assembly
Jack, Boy, It's been over 6 years since working on that part. I'll let the others jump in on this. In the mean time I'll go over my pics, and put on the old thinking cap. If a light goes on, I'll share it. walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:52 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center Section Assembly Walt, Thanks for the note and pictures, they were helpful. Yes, I was talking about the 2" strip of ply. Is it best to start the assembly by gluing the end ribs to the spars? I assume I need to wait on the lower compression struts until the cabane straps are in place. Also, on the straps, should I drill them to the spars before assembly or align them and drill after everything is put together? So many questions! Thanks! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Glenn, Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly the plans from the Pietenpol family are the 1933 "Improved Plans". Some of the improvements included the redesigned split-axle landing gear, and I think the fuselage was lengthened by an inch or two. There might be other slight changes, but those are the two I recall off the top of my head. So there would have been no omission as far as what you paid for, it's just that the straight axle wood gear had been "superseded" in the plans by the split axle. I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays with their families, and Jess and I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Ryan Glenn Thomas wrote: Thanks a lot guys! I have the F&G and just finished scanning and enlarging all the sections of the drawing into several pages. They're good drawings. I'll also refer to Chris's excellent site as well. I was just wondering how that drawing didn't make it into the larger group of drawings. Merry Christmas! Glenn, My plans are the same way. I have a copy of the F&G pages if you need them. Ben Glenn Thomas wrote: > > I was looking through my plans and can't find a page that specs out the straight axel landing gear. I do see it in the flying and glider manual. Is F&G the only place to see dimensions on the straight axel gear? > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153799#153799 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Date: Dec 23, 2007
The plans that were available through Orrin Hoopman included the Jenny style landing gear. Does anybody know if Mr. Hoopman's heirs still offer those plans for sale? Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 5:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plans Page Missing? Glenn, Don't quote me on this, but if I remember correctly the plans from the Pietenpol family are the 1933 "Improved Plans". Some of the improvements included the redesigned split-axle landing gear, and I think the fuselage was lengthened by an inch or two. There might be other slight changes, but those are the two I recall off the top of my head. So there would have been no omission as far as what you paid for, it's just that the straight axle wood gear had been "superseded" in the plans by the split axle. I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays with their families, and Jess and I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Ryan Glenn Thomas wrote: Thanks a lot guys! I have the F&G and just finished scanning and enlarging all the sections of the drawing into several pages. They're good drawings. I'll also refer to Chris's excellent site as well. I was just wondering how that drawing didn't make it into the larger group of drawings. Merry Christmas! On 12/23/07, Ben Charvet wrote: Glenn, My plans are the same way. I have a copy of the F&G pages if you need them. Ben Glenn Thomas wrote: glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> > > I was looking through my plans and can't find a page that specs out the straight axel landing gear. I do see it in the flying and glider manual. Is F&G the only place to see dimensions on the straight axel gear? > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153799#153799 > > > > > > > > > > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pietflyr" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area??
Date: Dec 23, 2007
SGkgR2VuZSwNCg0KSSdtIGluIHRoZSBSRFUgYXJlYSwgYnV0IHVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHkgd2lsbCBu b3QgYmUgb3ZlciBDaHJpc3RtYXMuICBJJ20gZmx5aW5nIHRvIEJsYWNrc2J1cmcgVkEgdG8gc3Bl bmQgdGltZSB3aXRoIG15IHdpZmUncyBmYW1pbHkgZm9yIENocmlzdG1hcy4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGlm IHlvdSBnZXQgZG93biB0byBDb3ggRmllbGQgaW4gQXBleCAoOCBtaWxlcyBTU1cgb2YgUkRVKSB5 b3UgYXJlIHdlbGNvbWUgdG8gc3RvcCBpbiBhbmQgbG9vayBhdCBteSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wuICBJdCdz IGluIHRoZSBicm93biBoYW5nYXIgdGhlcmUuDQoNCkphY2sgUGhpbGxpcHMNCk5YODk5SlANCiAg LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCiAgRnJvbTogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qt c2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV1PbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgR2VuZSBSYW1ibw0KICBTZW50OiBTdW5kYXksIERl Y2VtYmVyIDIzLCAyMDA3IDg6NDcgQU0NCiAgVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20NCiAgU3ViamVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IGFueW9uZSBpbiB0aGUgUmFsZWlnaC9EdXJo YW0gYXJlYT8/DQoNCg0KICBJIHRoaW5rIEkgaGF2ZSBhc2tlZCB0aGlzIGJlZm9yZSwgYnV0IGlz IGFueW9uZSBpbiB0aGUgUkRVIGFyZWE/ICBJIGhhdmUgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Ygb3Zlcm5pZ2h0cyB0 aGVyZSwgQ2hyaXN0bWFzIGV2ZSBhbmQgZGF5LCBhbmQgd2FzIHdvbmRlcmluZyBpZiB0aGVyZSBh cmUgYW55IHByb2plY3RzIGNsb3NlIGJ5IHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIHNpdHRpbmcgaW4gYSBob3RlbCBy b29tIG9uIENocmlzdG1hcy4NCg0KICBHZW5lDQoNCg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgICAgIC0t IFBsZWFzZSBTdXBwb3J0IFlvdXIgTGlzdHMgVGhpcyBNb250aCAtLQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAo QW5kIEdldCBTb21lIEFXRVNPTUUgRlJFRSBHaWZ0cyEpDQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIE5vdmVtYmVyIGlz IHRoZSBBbm51YWwgTGlzdCBGdW5kIFJhaXNlci4gIENsaWNrIG9uDQpfLT0gICB0aGUgQ29udHJp YnV0aW9uIGxpbmsgYmVsb3cgdG8gZmluZCBvdXQgbW9yZSBhYm91dA0KXy09ICAgdGhpcyB5ZWFy J3MgVGVycmlmaWMgRnJlZSBJbmNlbnRpdmUgR2lmdHMhDQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIExpc3QgQ29udHJp YnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29t L2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3Vw cG9ydCENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxl LCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFBpZXRlbnBvbC1M aXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0NCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5h dmlnYXRvciB0byBicm93c2UNCl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExp c3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLA0KXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5 IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLA0KXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZToN Cl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1BpZXRlbnBvbC1M aXN0DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtDQpf LT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyEN Cl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 23, 2007
Greg, I spoke with Goldie Hoopman just a couple of weeks ago. She is doing great! A couple of months ago she gave me dozens of drawings that she had stored in her basement. She no longer sells plans and when people inquire she tells them to contact Don Pietenpol in Rochester, MN. However, there is an original drawing of the Jenny style landing gear in the many plan drawings that I obtained from Mrs. Hoopman. I dont think that there would be anything wrong with sending someone a copy if they needed one. The drawing I have is 11 X 17. I may even be able to scan the image and email it as a pdf. Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153923#153923 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org>
Dan, I've been following the discussions about the Jenny style landing gear. I am building mine as we speak. It would certainly be appreciated if I could somehow obtain a copy of the 11 X 17 drawings. If cost is involved, I'd gladly pay. To all on this wonderful Piet list, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Thanks, Arden Adamson aadamson(at)wnmdag.org ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of dwilson Sent: Sun 12/23/2007 7:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? Greg, I spoke with Goldie Hoopman just a couple of weeks ago. She is doing great! A couple of months ago she gave me dozens of drawings that she had stored in her basement. She no longer sells plans and when people inquire she tells them to contact Don Pietenpol in Rochester, MN. However, there is an original drawing of the Jenny style landing gear in the many plan drawings that I obtained from Mrs. Hoopman. I dont think that there would be anything wrong with sending someone a copy if they needed one. The drawing I have is 11 X 17. I may even be able to scan the image and email it as a pdf. Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153923#153923 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 23, 2007
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Same here. The quality of my enlargements is fair at best. I think I can make out most of the dimensions but would pay for something a little cleaner and easier to read. On 12/23/07, Arden Adamson wrote: > > Dan, > > I've been following the discussions about the Jenny style landing gear. I > am building mine as we speak. It would certainly be appreciated if I could > somehow obtain a copy of the 11 X 17 drawings. If cost is involved, I'd > gladly pay. > > To all on this wonderful Piet list, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. > > Thanks, > Arden Adamson > aadamson(at)wnmdag.org > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of dwilson > Sent: Sun 12/23/2007 7:57 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? > > > Greg, I spoke with Goldie Hoopman just a couple of weeks ago. She is > doing great! A couple of months ago she gave me dozens of drawings that she > had stored in her basement. She no longer sells plans and when people > inquire she tells them to contact Don Pietenpol in Rochester, MN. However, > there is an original drawing of the Jenny style landing gear in the many > plan drawings that I obtained from Mrs. Hoopman. I dont think that there > would be anything wrong with sending someone a copy if they needed one. The > drawing I have is 11 X 17. I may even be able to scan the image and email > it as a pdf. > > Dan Wilson > Austin, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153923#153923 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A engine
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 23, 2007
I found one of the books I've been looking for. The title is "The Model A Engine" by William H. Mcree and Paul H. Mcree. Looks very informative, sort of a step-by-step rebuild guide with a good definition of each part and what it does. Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153945#153945 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Date: Dec 23, 2007
This might be good info to post on Chris Tracy's website........ Cheers, Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? > > Greg, I spoke with Goldie Hoopman just a couple of weeks ago. She is > doing great! A couple of months ago she gave me dozens of drawings that > she had stored in her basement. She no longer sells plans and when people > inquire she tells them to contact Don Pietenpol in Rochester, MN. > However, there is an original drawing of the Jenny style landing gear in > the many plan drawings that I obtained from Mrs. Hoopman. I dont think > that there would be anything wrong with sending someone a copy if they > needed one. The drawing I have is 11 X 17. I may even be able to scan the > image and email it as a pdf. > > Dan Wilson > Austin, MN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153923#153923 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area??
Date: Dec 24, 2007
great, I am coming your way and you are coming mine. Oh well. Have a great one. I am in RDU often, so maybe I will catch you next time. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: pietflyr<mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area?? Hi Gene, I'm in the RDU area, but unfortunately will not be over Christmas. I'm flying to Blacksburg VA to spend time with my wife's family for Christmas. However, if you get down to Cox Field in Apex (8 miles SSW of RDU) you are welcome to stop in and look at my Pietenpol. It's in the brown hangar there. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 8:47 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: anyone in the Raleigh/Durham area?? I think I have asked this before, but is anyone in the RDU area? I have a couple of overnights there, Christmas eve and day, and was wondering if there are any projects close by rather than sitting in a hotel room on Christmas. Gene http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =B7>~?=ED=B2,=DE=03g(-S=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MICHAEL SILVIUS" <M.Silvius(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Model A engine
Date: Dec 24, 2007
Check out: http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_manager/ad_detail.php?ID=211623 may be a useable Ford engine in there and perhaps a few other godies? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 11:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A engine > > I found one of the books I've been looking for. The title is "The Model A Engine" by William H. Mcree and Paul H. Mcree. Looks very informative, sort of a step-by-step rebuild guide with a good definition of each part and what it does. > > Matt > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153945#153945 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2007
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
I'd like a copy of them too, or a really high res file that I could then print out on my plotter. Glenn Thomas wrote: Same here. The quality of my enlargements is fair at best. I think I can make out most of the dimensions but would pay for something a little cleaner and easier to read. On 12/23/07, Arden Adamson wrote: Dan, I've been following the discussions about the Jenny style landing gear. I am building mine as we speak. It would certainly be appreciated if I could somehow obtain a copy of the 11 X 17 drawings. If cost is involved, I'd gladly pay. To all on this wonderful Piet list, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Thanks, Arden Adamson aadamson(at)wnmdag.org ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of dwilson Sent: Sun 12/23/2007 7:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? Greg, I spoke with Goldie Hoopman just a couple of weeks ago. She is doing great! A couple of months ago she gave me dozens of drawings that she had stored in her basement. She no longer sells plans and when people inquire she tells them to contact Don Pietenpol in Rochester, MN. However, there is an original drawing of the Jenny style landing gear in the many plan drawings that I obtained from Mrs. Hoopman. I dont think that there would be anything wrong with sending someone a copy if they needed one. The drawing I have is 11 X 17. I may even be able to scan the image and email it as a pdf. Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153923#153923 -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 24, 2007
Hate to say it, me too. I could use a copy also, Please let me know cost to get a set Thanks John Recine Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org> Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:10:37 To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? Dan, I've been following the discussions about the Jenny style landing gear. I am building mine as we speak. It would certainly be appreciated if I could somehow obtain a copy of the 11 X 17 drawings. If cost is involved, I'd gladly pay. To all on this wonderful Piet list, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Thanks, Arden Adamson aadamson(at)wnmdag.org ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of dwilson Sent: Sun 12/23/2007 7:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? Greg, I spoke with Goldie Hoopman just a couple of weeks ago. She is doing great! A couple of months ago she gave me dozens of drawings that she had stored in her basement. She no longer sells plans and when people inquire she tells them to contact Don Pietenpol in Rochester, MN. However, there is an original drawing of the Jenny style landing gear in the many plan drawings that I obtained from Mrs. Hoopman. I dont think that there would be anything wrong with sending someone a copy if they needed one. The drawing I have is 11 X 17. I may even be able to scan the image and email it as a pdf. Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153923#153923 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dog67(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 24, 2007
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
ME too :) For a copy of the Jenny style gear Thanks jon Apfelbaum **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2007
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Hello builders, Regarding the straight axle gear, I have attached some photos with gear dimensions as I built mine for my extended fuselage Piet project. As I recall, I tried to follow the F&G Manual plans including toeing out the lower gear member to follow the lines of the lower longeron. Currently working on instruments and I'll follow this up with a question for you guys. John E. snowy day in Wisconsin ----- Original Message ---- From: Glenn Thomas <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 7:33:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plans Page Missing? I was looking through my plans and can't find a page that specs out the straight axel landing gear. I do see it in the flying and glider manual. Is F&G the only place to see dimensions on the straight axel gear? -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=153799#153799 Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2007
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: plywood over Instrument panel
Hello group. I really like the way many folks install thier instruments onto the panel, and then add a piece of plywood (often oval in shape) over the instruments with only round cutouts exposing the instruments. My question is "how do we attach the decorative piece of plywood over the face of the instruments without losing the capability to remove the instruments some day if needed?". thank you, John E Wisconsin Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 24, 2007
OK! I think I got it sent out to everyone that requested except John. John I could not figure out your email address. Help. Merry Christmas! Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154104#154104 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 24, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Hey!....you forget me... Ho Ho Ho....Merry Christmas Dan! dwilson wrote: OK! I think I got it sent out to everyone that requested except John. John I could not figure out your email address. Help. Merry Christmas! Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154104#154104 Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 24, 2007
Dan, I'd like a copy too if you make them available. Thanks and Merry Christmas! Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154138#154138 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: A special Christmas Eve
Date: Dec 24, 2007
Today, in Western Tennessee, the winds died down, and the skies were so clear it reminded me of clear blue Alaska skies. Temps were in the mid 40's. Perfect! Preheated the trusty A 65 and with the first flip of the prop she started with a roar that only straight pipes can make. Climbed into the cockpit of Piet N502R, strapped the harness on, put on my leather flight helmet, lowered my goggles and released the tiedown line I had secured to the cabane. Taxi out to 22, hammer down and in a few hundred feet become airborn.... There truly is a Santa Claus Merry Christmas to All Gene & Tammy ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 25, 2007
Also have the full-size drawing... Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154192#154192 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wilson_344.pdf ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2007
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: back on the Group
Good Evening, I first want to open this email by saying Merry Christmas from my Family to yours and may there be only good flying conditions in 2008 for you! If you are building may the weather be warm so your glue can dry! Now having I said that. I am making a return to piet group because After several discussion with my dad he made the pitch to me about going back and trying it again from the ground up on building the aircamper. the first attempts didn't go so well for me so one more time and here hoping I can it flying. I just wanted to drop a line. Take Care & Merry Christmas, Ben Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: back on the Group
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Merry Christmas to all and to Ben, welcome back to the world of the Piet John Recine Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:05:06 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: back on the Group Good Evening, I first want to open this email by saying Merry Christmas from my Family to yours and may there be only good flying conditions in 2008 for you! If you are building may the weather be warm so your glue can dry! Now having I said that. I am making a return to piet group because After several discussion with my dad he made the pitch to me about going back and trying it again from the ground up on building the aircamper. the first attempts didn't go so well for me so one more time and here hoping I can it flying. I just wanted to drop a line. Take Care & Merry Christmas, Ben Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: a special Christmas Eve
Date: Dec 25, 2007
Gene; My Christmas Eve was pretty much like yours except that not only did I get to go flying, I got to take my youngest daughter up for her first open cock pit ride. She's down from college for the holidays and every other time sh e's been down it hasn't worked out for me to take her up. This Dec. 24th i t was clear, bright, cold, and a crosswind from the west. Nothing me and 4 1CC couldn't handle and the grass was nice and dry so we operated off the g rass. The airplane started up on the second flip (after the puzzlement and the question, "where is the starter, Dad?) and it was surprising to find t hat the A65 idled a good deal faster than when it's been warm. Not sure wh y, but I handled the chocks carefully and we did OK. The flight was great, performance in cool weather is sparkling, and Bethany had a wonderful time. We were dressed for the cooler air (it had to be in the 40s at altitude) and made it a point to stay up just long enough to en joy it but not get chilled too deeply. And the Pietenpol did not disappoin t. What a marvelous and trusty airplane. The landing was not perfect but it was good practice for x-wind technique and I didn't do too badly. What a fun airplane Corky built for me.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildr ags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 25, 2007
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: back on the Group
Ben, There is an aircamper about 50% complete that was advertized here just a few days ago and the price was peanuts! Maybe others can get you in touch with this builder who is interested in selling! Ken H Ben Ramler wrote: Good Evening, I first want to open this email by saying Merry Christmas from my Family to yours and may there be only good flying conditions in 2008 for you! If you are building may the weather be warm so your glue can dry! Now having I said that. I am making a return to piet group because After several discussion with my dad he made the pitch to me about going back and trying it again from the ground up on building the aircamper. the first attempts didn't go so well for me so one more time and here hoping I can it flying. I just wanted to drop a line. Take Care & Merry Christmas, Ben Looking for last minute shopping deals? Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Dan, Sorry to hear that Please send to: Amsafetyc(at)aol.com Thanks John Recine Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:27:05 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? OK! I think I got it sent out to everyone that requested except John. John I could not figure out your email address. Help. Merry Christmas! Dan Wilson Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154104#154104 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2007
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: back on the Group
thank you Ken! ----- Original Message ---- From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 10:31:33 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: back on the Group Ben, There is an aircamper about 50% complete that was advertized here just a few days ago and the price was peanuts! Maybe others can get you in touch with this builder who is interested in selling! Ken H Ben Ramler wrote: Good Evening, I first want to open this email by saying Merry Christmas from my Family to yours and may there be only good flying conditions in 2008 for you! If you are building may the weather be warm so your glue can dry! Now having I said that. I am making a return to piet group because After several discussion with my dad he made the pitch to me about going back and trying it again from the ground up on building the aircamper. Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dog67(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Hi Dan; Jon Apfelbaum at _Dog67(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Dog67(at)aol.com) , or snail mail at 3546 E Brockbank Drive, SLC, UT 84124 Thanks! Cheers **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: sheet metal plate shear
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Planning to purchase a plate shear. Does anyone have an opinion on any of these shears ? ENCO, Foxshop, Jet, Woodward Fab, Norther Hydraulics ? I know the beverly is the top of the line but too expensive. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154351#154351 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2007
From: Ben Ramler <ben_ramler2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plans Page Missing?
Hi Jon, Here's hoping you find your missing page. I know if I was you I would not be a happy camper. but thats just me! take care everyone, Ben ----- Original Message ---- From: "Dog67(at)aol.com" <Dog67(at)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:39:51 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans Page Missing? Hi Dan; Jon Apfelbaum at Dog67(at)aol.com, or snail mail at 3546 E Brockbank Drive, SLC, UT 84124 Thanks! Cheers See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 26, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: sheet metal plate shear
Dan, Don't know if this is planned for the sheet aluminum for the Piet or not. But just my two cents,,,cut all my aluminum stuff on my 10" Delta, wood, bandsaw. You don't even need a metal blade. Same blade used to cut rib pieces works great for the alum sheet. For all shapes and sizes. And it doesn't seem to dull the blade. walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: sheet metal plate shear > > Planning to purchase a plate shear. Does anyone have an opinion on any of > these shears ? ENCO, Foxshop, Jet, Woodward Fab, Norther Hydraulics ? > I know the beverly is the top of the line but too expensive. > > Dan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154351#154351 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Subject: Re: Model A engine
In a message dated 12/23/2007 11:55:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ferrari(at)lakenet.com writes: I found one of the books I've been looking for. The title is "The Model A Engine" by William H. Mcree and Paul H. Mcree. Looks very informative, sort of a step-by-step rebuild guide with a good definition of each part and what it does. Matt Matt, I've been looking for that book for months. Where did you find it? Ron **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: a special Christmas Eve
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Oscar, Way to go!! What a thrill to take your youngest daughter flying for the first time. And in a Piet! I knew you wouldn't be able to stand not flying in cold weather after I told you how great it is. You found the secret to cold weather flying..... Fly only as long as your comfortable. Yes, not only does the airplane fly better, but the engine runs better in cold weather. Be Careful. It can become contagious. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A engine
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Hi Ron, I found the book at Mac's Antique Auto Parts. Their address is P.O.Box 238 Lockport, NY 14095. Ph# 800-777-0948 or 716-210-1340. I ordered it on line through their web site www.macsautoparts.com . The book cost $18.50 plus shipping ($6.50 to MN). They shipped very quick and I had the book i think within three days of ordering it. I've read a few pages and looked at lots of pictures, it looks like a ton of info for Model A guys. Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154439#154439 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: sheet metal plate shear
Date: Dec 26, 2007
Hi Dan, The $60 - $80 shears from the manufacturer's you mentioned work great. Go with an 8". Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 12:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: sheet metal plate shear > > Planning to purchase a plate shear. Does anyone have an opinion on any of > these shears ? ENCO, Foxshop, Jet, Woodward Fab, Norther Hydraulics ? > I know the beverly is the top of the line but too expensive. > > Dan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154351#154351 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 27, 2007
Subject: Re: Model A engine
In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:03:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ferrari(at)lakenet.com writes: Hi Ron, I found the book at Mac's Antique Auto Parts. Their address is P.O.Box 238 Lockport, NY 14095. Ph# 800-777-0948 or 716-210-1340. I ordered it on line through their web site www.macsautoparts.com . The book cost $18.50 plus shipping ($6.50 to MN). They shipped very quick and I had the book i think within three days of ordering it. I've read a few pages and looked at lots of pictures, it looks like a ton of info for Model A guys. Matt Matt, You ARE the man. Thanks. Ron do not archive (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A engine
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 28, 2007
You Model A guys are probably very familiar with Snyder's but they have several books too. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/books/ABooks They are a couple miles up the road from me, if anybody wanted me to go and check something out for them I would... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154757#154757 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Rib "Low Spot"?
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 28, 2007
Hi, I'm working on my wing rib jig and I'm plotting the dimensions per the Hoopman drawing #5 dated 3/3/34. I've heard about the illusive low spot but not exactly sure I know where it is or what's the fix. Comparing the plan drawing to pg. 16 of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual I found where Mr. Pietenpol corrected a dimension by 1/8". (6" corrected to 6 1/8"). (Pg. 16, far right column, second paragraph from the bottom). Is the fix to add 1/8" to the dimension in question or am I going down the wrong track? Thanks, Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154782#154782 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 28, 2007
Subject: Re: Wing Rib "Low Spot"?
Matt, I'm just a lurker here, but I remember reading about this too, and if memory serves, I think all you have to do is plot the profile out and "connect the dots", and it will be clear enough for the naked eye to see. Hope this helps... Boyce (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A engine
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 29, 2007
Thanks Don, I checked their web site out, lot's of good stuff. Have you (or anyone out there) heard of a shop in Indiana that did conversions on the Model A? Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154847#154847 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing Rib "Low Spot"?
From: "MF" <ferrari(at)lakenet.com>
Date: Dec 29, 2007
Thanks Boyce, Matt Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=154848#154848 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: starting the warm A65
Date: Dec 30, 2007
I needed to refuel the airplane so I made the 10 minute flight over to Cast roville yesterday on a sunny, cool afternoon. Starting after refueling is the biggest challenge as far as warm starts for my engine. And this time I had the dreaded 'onlookers' (two guys in a Champ) and didn't want to sit t here propping and flooding while they chuckled under their breath. Everyth ing went perfectly, thanks to the tip from Walt, Ben, and others about open ing the throttle to get the carb off the idle circuit as the mags are shut off as I shut down at the fuel pump. Started on the second or third blade. Got the technique down now! Part of the reason for making the flight was to warm the engine up so I cou ld change the oil, too. I used a little siphon pump that came from Auto Zo ne and it works great. Much less hassle than removing the cowlings and pul ling the oil sump drain, or even using a quick-drain fitting on the sump. Just stick the end of one tube down the filler neck into the sump and the o ther into the waste oil container and start pumping. Pretty amazing how bl ack that oil gets in 25 hrs. of operation, too.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXm ailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2007
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: starting the warm A65
Oscar, Great, glad it worked. I'll pass my part of the credit on to my mentor. "There is no substitute for experience" walt evans NX140DL "No one ever learned anything by talking" Ben Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: starting the warm A65 I needed to refuel the airplane so I made the 10 minute flight over to Castroville yesterday on a sunny, cool afternoon. Starting after refueling is the biggest challenge as far as warm starts for my engine. And this time I had the dreaded 'onlookers' (two guys in a Champ) and didn't want to sit there propping and flooding while they chuckled under their breath. Everything went perfectly, thanks to the tip from Walt, Ben, and others about opening the throttle to get the carb off the idle circuit as the mags are shut off as I shut down at the fuel pump. Started on the second or third blade. Got the technique down now! Part of the reason for making the flight was to warm the engine up so I could change the oil, too. I used a little siphon pump that came from Auto Zone and it works great. Much less hassle than removing the cowlings and pulling the oil sump drain, or even using a quick-drain fitting on the sump. Just stick the end of one tube down the filler neck into the sump and the other into the waste oil container and start pumping. Pretty amazing how black that oil gets in 25 hrs. of operation, too. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2007
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: WW Black Prop Hub
If anyone can use a William Wynne Black Prop Hub I am selling one. It is unused (test fit it once on the crank), as received from WW, price is what I paid for it - $319 plus shipping. I also have a WW Puck and Alternator Pully I will sell with the hub or will sell separately after selling the hub. Please contact me offline at at7000ft(at)gmail.com. Rick -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd. Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: starting the warm A65
Date: Dec 30, 2007
What oil were you using and how did your oil screen look? Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: landing gear
Date: Dec 31, 2007
Has anyone ever thought about using a spring gear on the pietenpol. Wittman tailwind, Cessna 140, and the Zodiac 601 all use this gear to great success. The original PIET had a model A engine and Bernie went to a Corvair Like I am doing. I am not a purist so I am always thinking of a better way if there is one. Gardiner Mason ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: RDU again
Date: Dec 31, 2007
I will be overnighting in RDU on Wednesday and Thursday this week again. I do not remember who it was that was going to be in VA over Christmas, but any chance of seeing a Piet this time?? Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: oil change
Date: Dec 31, 2007
> > What oil were you using and how did your oil screen look? I'm using Aeroshell W100, SAE 50. For the oil screen, I took Mike Cuy's re commendation of washing it in a little bit of gasoline and then running tha t through a coffee filter. No metal that I could see.Oscar ZunigaSan Anton io, TXmailto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Dec 31, 2007
Subject: Landing gear
I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4. Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is another damn artic blast blowing threw again today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: landing gear
Date: Dec 31, 2007
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
I did, briefly. It would require significant strengthening of the Fuselage where the landing gear bolts on, to compensate for all the load being concentrated in one smaller place The resulting redesign would not gain any benefits. The split axle design is simple to make and immensely strong Happy New year and many great landings for 2008. Hans Pietenpol NX 15KV -----Original Message----- From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 7:09 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gear Has anyone ever thought about using a spring gear on the pietenpol. Wittman tailwind, Cessna 140, and the Zodiac 601 all use this gear to great success. The original PIET had a model A engine and Bernie went to a Corvair Like I am doing. I am not a purist so I am always thinking of a better way if there is one. Gardiner Mason ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
Date: Dec 31, 2007
Hey Leon I know winters get a bit long, but when you start thinking about skining a Piet in aluminum its time to take a vacation or change brands of tequilla. Or check your carbon monoxide detectors for a reason for such thinking. Save that kind of talk for April 1. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leon Stefan" <lshutks(at)webtv.net> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear > > I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I > ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be > the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but > with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the > wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time > invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think > you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with > Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light > at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I > would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4. > Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is > another damn artic blast blowing threw again today. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
Date: Dec 31, 2007
Leon Stefan said: "This part is insane and I will never do it, but I would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum." My reaction is "Why not?" In fact, I seriously considered doing so some 25 years ago, but had too much on the go at the time to get any further than the idea stage. Nowadays, I'm too darned old and no longer have a workplace large enough for such a project. However, I wasn't going to skin the a/c with sheet aluminum. Too heavy. Fabric is lighter and would retain the authentic(?) external appearance. The intention was to substitute aluminum alloy structural members for the wooden parts of the original design. These would have been standard extruded sections and formed angles, channels, etc. riveted or bolted together according to standard aircraft practice. At first I considered an all-aluminum fuselage with fabric covering, but had settled on a welded steel tubing truss before the whole idea was shelved. This creation would have been "all metal" rather than "all aluminum". A spring steel landing gear was never considered because the highly localized loads on the structure would have required much re-design--besides altering the appearance of an airplane that was supposed to mimic the Pietenpol. The primary motivation for the exercise was to use a substitute material for scarce (and expensive) aircraft quality spruce; the secondary goal was to perhaps save some weight. I still regret that I never had the time to follow it through. Happy New Year! Graham Hansen (My Pietenpol, CF-AUN, is a standard wooden version) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
Date: Dec 31, 2007
Grant, Think the key reason for not building the Piete out of Al has to due with metal fatigue. As you probably can feel, the fuselage flexes a heck of alot every time you land. My Quasi-Piete is made out of 4130 and I can feel the flex every landing, especially if I don't make a smooth landing and let the tail down slowly. Secondly, one of the reasons the firewall is not AL has to do with the burning nature of AL. Boeing and other big guys have AL longerons and spars, but the structural I-beam design accounts for the flex fatigue of the metal. I've broken enough Al lawn chairs in my day to know I'd be really cautious about making Piete longerons out of AL tube. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear > <ghans@cable-lynx.net> > > Leon Stefan said: > "This part is insane and I will never do it, but I would love to build a > Piet. in all aluminum." > > My reaction is "Why not?" > > In fact, I seriously considered doing so some 25 years ago, but had too > much on the go at the time to get any further than the idea stage. > Nowadays, I'm too darned old and no longer have a workplace large enough > for such a project. > > However, I wasn't going to skin the a/c with sheet aluminum. Too heavy. > Fabric is lighter and would retain the authentic(?) external appearance. > The intention was to substitute aluminum alloy structural members for the > wooden parts of the original design. These would have > been standard extruded sections and formed angles, channels, etc. riveted > or bolted together according to standard aircraft practice. > > At first I considered an all-aluminum fuselage with fabric covering, but > had settled on a welded steel tubing truss before the whole idea was > shelved. This creation would have been "all metal" rather than "all > aluminum". > > A spring steel landing gear was never considered because the highly > localized loads on the structure would have required much > re-design--besides altering the appearance of an airplane that was > supposed to mimic the Pietenpol. > > The primary motivation for the exercise was to use a substitute material > for scarce (and expensive) aircraft quality spruce; the secondary goal was > to perhaps save some weight. I still regret that I never had the time to > follow it through. > > Happy New Year! > > Graham Hansen > > (My Pietenpol, CF-AUN, is a standard wooden version) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2008
From: "Ken Chambers" <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
What size are your wheels, Leon? What kind of brakes are you using? Do you have a photo available? I've been thinking about trying to find ATF wheels that are tall and skinny enough to look like the old aerowheels. Happy New Year everyone Ken in Austin, knocking out walls and pricing capstrips. On Dec 31, 2007 8:18 AM, Leon Stefan wrote: > > I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I > ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be > the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but > with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the > wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time > invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think > you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with > Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light > at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I > would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4. > Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is > another damn artic blast blowing threw again today. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Happy New Year
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Hope 2008 will be a safe, exciting and productive year for all of you. Your a great group and besides being very interesting you've been so very helpful. I always look forward to checking my e-mail to check for Piet postings. As some of you may remember I rebuilt my A 65 and did a few other changes to my Piet. Even tho I didn't build my Piet, with your help it all worked out great. Between work and weather I'm not getting to fly as often as I would like. Hopefully 2008 will change all that. I heard from Randy Bush last week and he indicated he has the wings on his new Piet and he had been doing taxi tests. How about it Randy, how about a report. Gene in Tennessee N502R ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Happy New Year
From: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Well now that 07 is now little more than a fond memory and we view 08 with anticipation of projects beginning and projects completing. I want to wish all my Piet builder buddies a happy new year! You have been a great resource for me and my build, I look forward to the interaction and project visits to come. Be well and Keep on gluing! John Recine Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 08:13:38 To: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year Hope 2008 will be a safe, exciting andproductive year for all of you. Your a great group and besides being very interesting you've been so very helpful. I always look forward to checking my e-mail to check for Piet postings. As some of you may remember I rebuilt my A 65 and did a few other changes to my Piet. Even tho I didn't build my Piet, with your help it all worked out great. Between work and weather I'm not getting tofly as often as I would like. Hopefully 2008 will change all that. I heard from Randy Bush last week and he indicated he has the wings on his new Piet and he had been doing taxi tests. How about it Randy, how about a report. Gene in Tennessee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Subject: Landing gear
Dick: Yah, I'm so sick of winter that I'm already past the winter of 07. I'm now into hating the winters of 08 and 09. I'm way ahead of the game. I took my last drink of of demon hard liquor Jan. 29th of 07- 11 months ago. Perhaps I need to start up again. I'm not much of a beer drinker but I usually fill up a cooler with beer for Brodhead and Oshkosh--got to keeo the strength up for all the walking! I just had 12 days without electricity a couple of weeks ago and had plenty of time to think about the all aluminum Piet again. Another reason I probably won't build it is because I just spent $800 of Pietenpol money (Covering supplies) on a generator so I won't be caught in the cold and dark again. The price of living in the country Grahm: It is fun to dream. Gordon: I've considered the stress on al. stingers, but also have noted that several designs like the WW-1Aerodrome Aeroplanes are built with al. tube (Piet style) riveted together. One of their airplanes (Nieuport-28 ) is heavy ( #1212 gw. and Rotec radial) But it's a moot point since I 'm 95% sure I won't do it. Ken Chambers: I have 4 pictures available that have been posted before. I'll re post them. I have web Tv. which is what Fred Flintstone used, so I'm limited t what I can post. The pix. don't show much detail, but I got the disc brakes from AS&S for 3/4" axels. I bought an ATV magazine and looked for a company the made wheels. While looking at atv. tires at Walmart I decided 21x12x8 would look ok so asked Douglass about making me a pair with only the center boss hole drilled. (I forget the size. I think they are 1 1/2" ) then had my brother drill for the lug bolts on our mill. The wheels are 2 piece welded together. Each half comes in various depths, your choice. I chose 3'' inner and 3"outer for 6" with. The pictures I have will be sent next. If you have any other questions please ask. There also is a picture of the inside beef-up structure for the Kerri Price front door. Leon Stefan In KS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Stinemetze" <tstinemetze(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Project update
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Jack: Way to go and thanks for the motivational photos on your web site. I'm just a little behind you on the wings part of the project and I've found it VERY helpful to be able to visualize what I'm about to do if I can see how someone else did it. Does anyone on the list have any similar photos of how they built the "flop" in their wing center section? I'm torn between a cut-out or the flop at the moment but I know I will need one or the other. The ceiling of my shop is almost exactly the same height above the fuselage as the wing will be and I have been experiencing just how hard it's going to be to climb in. Kind of makes the airplane noises reverberate well though. Happy New Year from cold, windy Kansas. Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Flight Review
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Is there anybody out there that has used their Piet for a Flight Review. I know you can but I just wondered if anyone on the list actually has. I have one coming up soon and have a couple of local rental taildraggers and instructors that I could do it in, but the thought crossed my mind that I could save a buck if I could convince an instructor to use mine. The lack of intercom might hinder it some but... Anybody have an experience they'd like to share? Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155370#155370 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pietflyr" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Flight Review
Date: Jan 01, 2008
I did it with mine last year. Checked out a local instructor in my Piet (he did at least half the landings) and he signed it off as a BFR! He weighed 205 (I weigh 200) and it was 93 degrees so we got a good solid 100 fpm climb. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 1:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flight Review Is there anybody out there that has used their Piet for a Flight Review. I know you can but I just wondered if anyone on the list actually has. I have one coming up soon and have a couple of local rental taildraggers and instructors that I could do it in, but the thought crossed my mind that I could save a buck if I could convince an instructor to use mine. The lack of intercom might hinder it some but... Anybody have an experience they'd like to share? Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155370#155370 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Flight Review
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Don; I had my flight review ("biennial") in 41CC. What's the problem with that, as long as the instructor is willing? If it's the same category and class as your rating (airplane, single engine, land), there should be no problem at all. We had an intercom for the flight review, but as you Piet pilots know, it's not quite like trying to communicate in a closed cabin aircraft. Mostly g runts, hand signals, and simple instructions.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmai lto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New Year's Stuff
When I first went outside this AM to see absolutely clear skies and crisp weather, I thought "Oscar!.... he will be flying today!" (We are about 100 miles north of his field.) If he had to drive to Zapata to fly, maybe not, but if it's homebased, it's a sure thing. A couple of days ago we had a great visit here with Carl and Ann Lekven, Piet builder ANNCARLEK on this site. They are from the L.A. area. I showed them my very slow progress adapting Corky's second project. Since he was an engineer with both Boeing and Douglas, he offered some very well based suggestions. It was great fun. Thanks, Carl. Ken, are you in Austin, MN, or Austin, TX? If the latter. let's get together soon. If MN, it will have to wait, esp. until after spring, esp. after reading Leon's post about no power and the cold for many days. (When we had a major ice storm here about ten years ago, I bought the last generator in Austin, so we could power the heatilator around the fireplace and have lights. Still it got down to 53F inside, even after the generator. Before that, it was a little colder, wife Dixie was wearing a fur coat, and browsing L.L. Bean catalogs. Thanks to all of you this last year for answering my newbie questions, and for providing all of us the benefit of your thoughts, experiences, designs, pictures, and techniques. BP himself would have been proud of all this. Happy New Year. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Jan 1, 2008 12:03 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear > >What size are your wheels, Leon? What kind of brakes are you using? Do you >have a photo available? > >I've been thinking about trying to find ATF wheels that are tall and skinny >enough to look like the old aerowheels. > >Happy New Year everyone > >Ken in Austin, knocking out walls and pricing capstrips. > > >On Dec 31, 2007 8:18 AM, Leon Stefan wrote: > >> >> I'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if I >> ever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would be >> the thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., but >> with some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on the >> wood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building time >> invested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't think >> you would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear with >> Hagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively light >> at 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but I >> would love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4. >> Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there is >> another damn artic blast blowing threw again today. >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Wing ribs/plans/gear brackets for sale
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Hi guys, Due to a change of plans I will not be starting a Piet project and all my parts are for sale. I have a Charlie Rubek built set of ribs including four extra ones as I was planning on extending the wingspan by four feet. All plans, and a set of gear mount brackets for a straight leg setup. $450.00 for all. Those that have Charlies ribs know what a work of art they really are. Jim T 813/210/1196 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Project update
Date: Jan 01, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Hi Tom, Frigid here too! Have you checked out www.westcoastpiet.com or www.pietenpolclub.co.uk. They may have the photos you are looking for. Happy New Year, back to my real job tomorrow. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: New Year's Stuff
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Tim wrote- >Still it got down to 53F inside, even after the generator. Before that, i t was a little >colder, wife Dixie was wearing a fur coat, and browsing L.L. Bean catalogs . It is presently about 55F in our house and my sweet wife Jay has the doors open so it will cool down even more. I am wearing long underwear and sever al layers of outer clothing, in the house. This is our understanding and a greement of what life will be like until menopause runs its course... if it ever does. I am not allowed to say "it's too cold" and also am not allowe d to say "isn't it nice and warm today" while she is mopping the sweat off herself and red in the face. Happily married for going on 39 years now but sure don't understand women's metabolism, logic, or internal operations. I do know that in wife-speak, 'no' means yes, 'yes' means 'maybe', and 'maybe' means 'no'. I also know t hat 'no' cannot be changed to anything else, ever, so don't bother trying. Don- take your flight review in the Piet. It will be so much fun for the i nstructor that he will ace you no matter what!Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXma ilto: taildrags@hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: New Year's Stuff
Date: Jan 01, 2008
For the last several years, my BFR has been in the GN-1. My instructor, who is also an FAA flight examiner and on my GN-1 insurance policy, loves to fly in the plane. We don't have an intercom system worth a hoot, but between hand signals and some occasional yelling, we get the job done. Makes sense to use the plane you plan to fly exclusively as the one for the twice a year proficiency exam. Oscar is right, the examiner/instructor love the change of pace. I can't wait to get my plane from Dallas to Corpus Christi where I now live. It will be great to fly down the coastline. Mike King GN-1 77MK Corpus Christi, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Year's Stuff Tim wrote- >Still it got down to 53F inside, even after the generator. Before that, it was a little >colder, wife Dixie was wearing a fur coat, and browsing L.L. Bean catalogs. It is presently about 55F in our house and my sweet wife Jay has the doors open so it will cool down even more. I am wearing long underwear and several layers of outer clothing, in the house. This is our understanding and agreement of what life will be like until menopause runs its course... if it ever does. I am not allowed to say "it's too cold" and also am not allowed to say "isn't it nice and warm today" while she is mopping the sweat off herself and red in the face. Happily married for going on 39 years now but sure don't understand women's metabolism, logic, or internal operations. I do know that in wife-speak, 'no' means yes, 'yes' means 'maybe', and 'maybe' means 'no'. I also know that 'no' cannot be changed to anything else, ever, so don't bother trying. Don- take your flight review in the Piet. It will be so much fun for the instructor that he will ace you no matter what! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New Year's Stuff
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 01, 2008
Tim Up here in the other Austin ( MN ) 53 ^ F this time of year is t shirt and shorts weather... Outside right now is 1 below with 25 below wind chill. I'm thinking about installing a rather large wind shield... Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155442#155442 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Aileron Hinge
Date: Jan 02, 2008
I'm using aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I noticed that in one of Tony Bingelis' books, he cautions on using hinges that are one long continuous run as they can bind due to spar flexing during tight turns. My question is, those of you that have used piano hinges did you use one continuous 6 foot hinge or did you cut it into shorter sections? Those of you that have used one continuous run, have you experienced any binding? I think I remember Walt Evans, saying awhile back that he used a continuous run and has had no issues. Is that still the case Walt? Thanks, Richard Schreiber lmforge(at)earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Jan 02, 2008
I have made 2 wings with a continous 6 ft hinge. One is a on piece wing the other is a 3 piece. I havent had any problems with binding. Dick N ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Schreiber To: pietenpol-list Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge I'm using aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I noticed that in one of Tony Bingelis' books, he cautions on using hinges that are one long continuous run as they can bind due to spar flexing during tight turns. My question is, those of you that have used piano hinges did you use one continuous 6 foot hinge or did you cut it into shorter sections? Those of you that have used one continuous run, have you experienced any binding? I think I remember Walt Evans, saying awhile back that he used a continuous run and has had no issues. Is that still the case Walt? Thanks, Richard Schreiber lmforge(at)earthlink.net Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Date: Jan 02, 2008
Subject: Fwd: Pictures
Ken: I sent his this Sun AM. but it didn't appear, nor did it come back, so I'll try again. Scroll down. Leon S. Received: from smtpin-3306.bay.webtv.net (209.240.205.164) by storefull-3314.bay.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 Received: from unique_web.unique-software.com (unique-software.com [206.98.6.66]) by smtpin-3306.bay.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id 3969FE19D for ; Thu, 2 Feb 2006 Received: from [10.200.7.40] (unverified [204.169.40.254]) by unique_web.unique-software.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.6) with ESMTP id for ; Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--478815828 From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh@unique-software.com> Subject: Pictures Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 08:14:17 -0600 X-Brightmail: Message tested, results are inconclusive --Apple-Mail-4--478815828 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Leon, Thanks for sending the pictures and more detailed description of what you did. Here are scans of your pictures Thanks again Kirk =EF=BC=EF=BC=EF=BC=EF=BC ----------------------- Kirk Huizenga kirkh@unique-software.com St Paul, MN Pietenpol project - http://mykitplane.com/planes/ photoGalleryIndividualList.cfm?PeopleID=77 --Apple-Mail-4--478815828 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-5--478815828 --Apple-Mail-5--478815828 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Leon,

Thanks for sending the pictures and more detailed description of what you did.

Here are scans of your pictures

Thanks again
Kirk

November 29, 2007 - January 02, 2008

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gh