Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gm
February 21, 2008 - February 29, 2008
>
> You're reading my mind. I am also interested in wood struts. Do you know
> of
> any guidelines for laminating the struts?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
> Dawson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:22 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
>
> Hemlock for everything done so far, fuse, tail feathers,
> ribs and cabane struts. Close grain Fir for LG legs as
> Hemlock isn't available in the proper size. I'm leaning
> towards laminated fir for the spars.
>
> It's not generaly known that many Dehaviland Mosquito's
> were built with both Doug Fir and Western Hemlock as
> even then Spruce was in short supply.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOhZEsIq85E&mode=related&search
>
> http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
>
> Go to Tools+Tips-bottom of page-for charts on wood
> strength.
>
> Clif
>
>>
>> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
>> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
>> be
>> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>
>
> --
> 8:45 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Received my wood kit from ACS last month, same experience as Rick.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
I bought the Pietenpol wood kit from ACS. The wood quality was
excellent and provided all the wood I needed except for all ply, rib
material, leading and trailing edges. My Piet is the long fuselage
version.
Rick
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Catdesigns
wrote:
Steve,
I just ordered wood for my wings from Aircraft Spruce. From my
review of the Pietenpol Air Camper spruce kit, it does not include
material for the wing tip, leading edge or trailing edge of the wing.
It also does not include the wing rib material. I'm not sure how well
the kit matches up with the fuselage needs as I did not buy my fuselage
wood from them.
=BE-inch x 4 =BD-inch spars are used by BHP on the last plane he
built and are use by many people. I was going to go with the 1-inch but
decided to go with =BE-inch (for cost) and shims at the ribs.
Per the plans, the wing ribs are made form 1/4-inch x 1/2-inch.
You will need to order this separately. ACS has a note that says the
ribs are built based on the HP of your engine. This is not true for the
Pietenpol. This must be from the Grega plans. They also sell a Grega
kit so make sure your looking at the right one.
If you order from then have them send you a copy of the material in
the kit and compare it to your own list of stuff. It is rather simple
to sit down with the plans and get a ruff estimate of what you need.
By the way don't forget about plywood. You will need some for both
the wings and fuselage.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165261#165261
==========
br> -List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
==========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Clif,
I think I assumed that laminating was 'required' for structural reasons. If
not, I probably would not go down that road. But it seems to me that I would
have much better luck finding smaller pieces without flaws, and laminating
for that reason.
I'll have to think about your question of laminating for 'looks.' That may
be something I would like...
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Two questions. Are you laminating for looks,as in dark/light
woods or for structural reasons? Or possibly you have some
material that is too small you want to use up? Oops, that's
three. :-)
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
> Cliff,
>
> You're reading my mind. I am also interested in wood struts. Do you know
> of
> any guidelines for laminating the struts?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
> Dawson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:22 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
>
> Hemlock for everything done so far, fuse, tail feathers,
> ribs and cabane struts. Close grain Fir for LG legs as
> Hemlock isn't available in the proper size. I'm leaning
> towards laminated fir for the spars.
>
> It's not generaly known that many Dehaviland Mosquito's
> were built with both Doug Fir and Western Hemlock as
> even then Spruce was in short supply.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOhZEsIq85E&mode=related&search
>
> http://clifdawson.ca/Pientenpol.html
>
> Go to Tools+Tips-bottom of page-for charts on wood
> strength.
>
> Clif
>
>>
>> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
>> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
>> be
>> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>
>
> --
> 8:45 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Truly words to live by, I am going to post this in my office for reference
in dealing with the business world, I may even add a few:
Words of reassurance and appearence: We don't want to disconcert the masses
now do we son ,
Consoling a co worker following the meeting : you're a good looser and I
like good looser's. I bet you've had a lot of practice.
Exercising creativity and improvising solutions: The lake Axle, the Lake
Humility: No I cant say that I'm the best pilot in the world Scooter, I
would have to say Earnst Kessler the German flying Ace is the best, I'm the
second best pilot in the world
Exploring options: Will it do an outside loop?
John
In a message dated 2/20/2008 11:00:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann
John R,
Now you've got the spirit! All of life's problems can be solved
through "The Great Waldo Pepper."
Greet Strangers: "Hello Good People!"
Protect Wimminfolk: "He's a Four-Flusher Mary Beth."
Learn about culture: "Duke, into the opera singer costume"
Become a new entrepreneur: "You take this to the gas station every
time I need it and at the end of the day I'll give you a free ride."
Lessons in advertising: "I knew she wasn't worth top billing."
Learn about sharing: "Nebraska is mine!"
Return from a business trip: "Look who's home."
Advanced aircraft design: "It's gonna be a monoplane."
ALL of life's questions and problems solved.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Feb 20, 2008, at 9:00 PM, AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
>
> Ezra. Its not a biplane!
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:22:29
> To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tapered Spar Scare
>
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: John Hofmann
>
>
> A one inch spar failing in compression from a bevel?
> Brown Gravy?
> "The IT Girl of the Sky?"
>
> It must be time to level this discussion with a quote:
>
> "I Haven't had an unlimited budget you know. It's not going to look
> look like something out of a museum, all clean and dusted. I'm a
> designer and I don't give a d@nm about clean. That's what's so unique
> about this plane, the design. Concentrate on that. The Design. Well,
> there it is, the Stiles Skystreak."
>
> -Ezra Stiles-
>
> You may now return to serious Pietenpol discussion.
>
> -john (the idiot)-
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Gary,
I have not had any problems meeting the specs, the only problem so far is
trying to find the best of the stack for my Piet, The only thing I have
encountered so far is that straight board once ripped, the rips can change shape
and
twist, but that only happened in one piece of stock the rest has had a nice
straight consistent grain with few knots and nice growth ring pattern. I an
still working with my initial stock purchase of poplar which I spent $89.00 and
have all my structural pieces complete in addition to the turtle deck and
still have some left.
I just really love working with it. the coloration differences are
perplexing in that it changes along a board or inside of rip can take on a green
color. I have not noticed any weakness or changes in strength, ply ability or
bonding capability. I think its a great alternative to the more expensive woods,
sitka spruce and with a minimal penalty in weight it matches up really good
in the wood charts as an alternative.
John
In a message dated 2/20/2008 10:43:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gboothe(at)calply.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
John,
Just wondering, are you finding it difficult to find poplar that fits the
grain description in 43.13?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all aspects.
Except of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my luck it
takes a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable, readily
available fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all the
makings of perfect.
John Recine
Lititz pa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:03
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can be
used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to
$20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 02/20/08 |
I saw a reference to the WW2 DeHavilland Mosquito - my favorite plane of all
time. (I sometimes dream of=C2-building a 2/3- scale Mosquito using a pai
r of Jaguar V-12 engines...but that's another story!)
Yes, the 400+ mph Mosquitos were built of a plywood/balsa/plywood sandwich -
- and I am proud to say that the plywood came from the Roddis Veneer Company
in Marshfield, Wisconsin. This=C2-company continues in business today as
Marshfield Door Systems. During WW2 Roddis also supplied=C2-plywood for us
e in the Avro Anson twin-engine training plane and for other uses including
the floor in the WW2 Waco assault gliders and=C2-for building PT boats.
There is currently a traveling display touring the country that is called "W
isconsin's Flying Trees." It tells the story of the plywood industry's contr
ibution to the WW2 war effort.
Through March 19, 2008,=C2-it=C2-is at the Silent Wings Museum in Lubboc
k, Texas. Here is the schedule for the rest of the year:
April 1 =93 June 30, 2008
Yanks Aviation Museum
=C2-Chino, California
July 1 =93 September, 2008
National WWII Museum, New Orleans
October =93 December, 2008
Wisconsin Veterans=99 Museum
Madison, WI
May, 2009
Deke Slayton Museum
Sparta, WI
I haven't seen the display yet, but I hear that it is terrific. If you live
near Lubbock, Chino, New Orleans or in Wisconsin, be sure to=C2-check out
this display. Will make you proud to be building a Pietenpol using wood! The
exhibit is sponsored by the Hamilton Roddis Foundation through the Camp 5 L
ogging Museum in Laona, Wis.
For more information, check these sites:=C2-
http://www.chipsandsawdust.com/articles/rodply_article.html
http://www.ci.lubbock.tx.us/newsPage.aspx?ID=2361
Meanwhile, here on Wisconsin's "west coast" I got my=C2-Piet's motor mount
s (Model A Ford) installed earlier this week! Thanks to Ken Perkins for the
gorgeous welded steel=C2-parts! And the=C2-white ash proved to me that I
need a bigger, more powerful table saw. Guess that's why they make baseball
bats and hockey sticks out of white ash!
=C2-
Best regards to all,
Fred Beseler
La Crosse, WI=C2-
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
| From: | MaxHegler <MaxHegler(at)msn.com> |
Poplar is also rot and insect resistant like cedar and cypress. My house,
built in 1875 has never had any exterior or interior boards replaced until I
cut out an opening for a door. The wood still had a green tint where I cut
it. Good stuff!
Max
On 2/21/08 7:40 AM, "AMsafetyC(at)aol.com" wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I have not had any problems meeting the specs, the only problem so far is
> trying to find the best of the stack for my Piet, The only thing I have
> encountered so far is that straight board once ripped, the rips can change
> shape and twist, but that only happened in one piece of stock the rest has had
> a nice straight consistent grain with few knots and nice growth ring pattern.
> I an still working with my initial stock purchase of poplar which I spent
> $89.00 and have all my structural pieces complete in addition to the turtle
> deck and still have some left.
>
> I just really love working with it. the coloration differences are perplexing
> in that it changes along a board or inside of rip can take on a green color.
I
> have not noticed any weakness or changes in strength, ply ability or bonding
> capability. I think its a great alternative to the more expensive woods, sitka
> spruce and with a minimal penalty in weight it matches up really good in the
> wood charts as an alternative.
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 2/20/2008 10:43:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> gboothe(at)calply.com writes:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
>>
>> John,
>>
>> Just wondering, are you finding it difficult to find poplar that fits the
>> grain description in 43.13?
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>>
>>
>> I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all aspects.
>> Except of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my luck it
>> takes a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
>>
>> All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable, readily
>> available fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all the
>> makings of perfect.
>>
>> John Recine
>> Lititz pa
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:03
>> To:
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>>
>>
>>
>> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
>> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can be
>> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, CA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>>
>>
>> Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
>> 3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
>>
>> Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
>> cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to
>> $20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> --------
>> Chris Tracy
>> WestCoastPiet.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
>> <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duf
>> fy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
Talking about cedar, have seen several Piet rib sets build of cedar
including a set for sale at Broadhead.
Rick
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 8:47 AM, MaxHegler wrote:
> Poplar is also rot and insect resistant like cedar and cypress. My
> house, built in 1875 has never had any exterior or interior boards replaced
> until I cut out an opening for a door. The wood still had a green tint
> where I cut it. Good stuff!
>
> Max
>
>
> On 2/21/08 7:40 AM, "AMsafetyC(at)aol.com" wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> I have not had any problems meeting the specs, the only problem so far is
> trying to find the best of the stack for my Piet, The only thing I have
> encountered so far is that straight board once ripped, the rips can change
> shape and twist, but that only happened in one piece of stock the rest has
> had a nice straight consistent grain with few knots and nice growth ring
> pattern. I an still working with my initial stock purchase of poplar which I
> spent $8900 and have all my structural pieces complete in addition to the
> turtle deck and still have some left.
>
>
> I just really love working with it. the coloration differences are
> perplexing in that it changes along a board or inside of rip can take on a
> green color. I have not noticed any weakness or changes in strength, ply
> ability or bonding capability. I think its a great alternative to the more
> expensive woods, sitka spruce and with a minimal penalty in weight it
> matches up really good in the wood charts as an alternative.
>
> John
>
> In a message dated 2/20/2008 10:43:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> gboothe(at)calply.com writes:
>
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
>
> John,
>
> Just wondering, are you finding it difficult to find poplar that fits the
> grain description in 43.13?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
>
> I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all
> aspects.
> Except of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my luck
> it
> takes a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
>
> All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable, readily
> available fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all the
> makings of perfect.
>
> John Recine
> Lititz pa
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:03
> To:
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
>
> Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
> considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
> be
> used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catdesigns
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
>
> Catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
>
> Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
> 3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
>
> Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
> cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15
> to
> $20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
>
> Chris
>
> --------
> Chris Tracy
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
> Living.
> <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
> *
>
> ist Email Forum -
> l-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> matronics.com
> ;- List Contribution Web Site -
> ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> **
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet - GN! differences |
| From: | "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> |
There is a brief discussion of the differences on the www.westcoastpiet.com site. Also it is a great place to look around at both Grega's and Pietenpol's in various stages of construction. The Grega's have GN-1 listed by the names. (Most the really neat stuff is under photos.)
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165429#165429
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
John, and other pieters....
I called the magazine company (EAA) and they said they would send me a copy at
no charge.
I say give them a call and see if they can send you a copy..
Ken
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
Dick
That must be a common builders thing I too have some piet pics hanging in my shop
for inspitation. I have not seen your cover shot, I don't get the mag I am
certain they would be disapointing after seeing your build in Broadhead this past
year. Certainly an impressive piece of work and a great build an inspiration
to us all.
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil"
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:36:04
To:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet building
Again, thanks to all on the comments on my new plane.
I would like to remind everyone to go back to the Sport Aviation 1999 issue with
the P-51 on the cover. The pics there of Mike Cuy's Piet still are posted in
my hangar. Jack Phillips and Larry Williams also had nice spreads in the past.
Mike Cuy and Chuck Ganzer both have nice videos on building and flying the Piet.
While building watching these videos can be a great source of inspiration.
For all new builders, try to set aside time to make it to Brodhead, Wi. for the
Piet fly in. It happens just before OSH and you get to meet lots of the people
on this list.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
Ken,
ya got a phone number we can use?
John
In a message dated 2/21/2008 3:21:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
John, and other pieters....
I called the magazine company (EAA) and they said they would send me a copy
at no charge.
I say give them a call and see if they can send you a copy..
Ken
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Dick
That must be a common builders thing I too have some piet pics hanging in my
shop for inspitation. I have not seen your cover shot, I don't get the mag I
am certain they would be disapointing after seeing your build in Broadhead
this past year. Certainly an impressive piece of work and a great build an
inspiration to us all.
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil"
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
____________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
John,
Here is the number I called and she is sending me the magazine.
Sport Aviation Magazine Email :: 920-426-6516
Ken
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
Ken,
ya got a phone number we can use?
John
In a message dated 2/21/2008 3:21:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
writes:
John, and other pieters....
I called the magazine company (EAA) and they said they would send me a copy at
no charge.
I say give them a call and see if they can send you a copy..
Ken
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
Dick
That must be a common builders thing I too have some piet pics hanging in my shop
for inspitation. I have not seen your cover shot, I don't get the mag I am
certain they would be disapointing after seeing your build in Broadhead this past
year. Certainly an impressive piece of work and a great build an inspiration
to us all.
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil" "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your
eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matron.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
---------------------------------
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Fellow Pieters:
Does fiberglass deteriorate in gas after time? Specifically a fiberglass rod
such as a driveway marker?
Ken H
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Purchase |
.
With all the discussion on purchasing wood and wood kits, does anyone
have experience with Western Aircraft supply in Canada. They seem to be
very knowledgeable on Pietenpol's and it sounds like a very complete
kit. Naturally, the shipping to me here in the Midwest is an issue.
Any expereriences with them?
Perry Rhoads
Illinois
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Purchase
There is an Excel spreadsheet wood list for the extended fuselage
which is posted on Mykitplane:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=4
Maybe someone with a bit more experience could take a look and see if
it seems correct. It is very handy for estimating cost, as you can just
plug the current prices in and it will recalculate.
Ryan
HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote:
Steve,
I would definitely NOT buy my spruce from the lumber list provided
by ACS. You are best to develop your own lumber list. BTW , ACS has
their "bargain bag of spruce" which is a very good buy. I actually
bought two of these before I was finished with my wood work. You can
make many parts out of the pieces that they send you, especially if you
have a planer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
Ken,
In the old days anything would deteriorate in gasoline in time, nowadays
with the alcohol component and the new gasoline formulations is shelf life is
about 30 days I am told I would doubt that after 45 days its not even gasoline
anymore. I would run a trial and see what you get. I suspect the worst would
be the varnish and gunk which may be more of the fuel than the fiber glass.
You can go to the post manufacturer and request an MSDS to see what it is not
compatable. That too will give you some good info and quickly.
John
In a message dated 2/21/2008 4:35:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
Fellow Pieters:
Does fiberglass deteriorate in gas after time? Specifically a fiberglass rod
such as a driveway marker?
Ken H
____________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
Most magazines, and I believe SA also, will sell high quality prints of any
pictures that have been in their magazine for a pretty reasonable price and
in various different sizes.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA,
CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 3:18 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet building
John, and other pieters....
I called the magazine company (EAA) and they said they would send me a
copy at no charge.
I say give them a call and see if they can send you a copy..
Ken
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
Dick
That must be a common builders thing I too have some piet pics hanging
in my shop for inspitation. I have not seen your cover shot, I don't get the
mag I am certain they would be disapointing after seeing your build in
Broadhead this past year. Certainly an impressive piece of work and a great
build an inspiration to us all.
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil"
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
I called and spoke with Mary Jones, my copy is in the mail, thanks to Ken. I
told her about the impact, she was surprised to hear from me the second
Pieter this week. She also took the time to tell me she was sending a new
membership kit in case I was interested in renewing my expired membership.
Naturally that's gonna happen just haven't gotten to it in the past
John
In a message dated 2/21/2008 4:55:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
brian.kraut(at)engalt.com writes:
Most magazines, and I believe SA also, will sell high quality prints of any
pictures that have been in their magazine for a pretty reasonable price and
in various different sizes.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet building
John, and other pieters....
I called the magazine company (EAA) and they said they would send me a copy
at no charge.
I say give them a call and see if they can send you a copy..
Ken
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Dick
That must be a common builders thing I too have some piet pics hanging in my
shop for inspitation. I have not seen your cover shot, I don't get the mag I
am certain they would be disapointing after seeing your build in Broadhead
this past year. Certainly an impressive piece of work and a great build an
inspiration to us all.
John Recine
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dick Navratil"
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
____________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Dear Brown,
If the rib is securely glued to the spar, the taper, in the calculation,
disappears, I think.
In my print, the fwd spar had a gusset that fit the flat spar, and the rear
needed a small wedge to fill the void. If you build to the print, it's
fine.
Whew, in the last few weeks everyone is trying to reinvent the
wheel,,,well in this case Bernard's prints.
Build to the prints and you'll be fine
Build to the prints and you'll be fine
Build to the prints and you'll be fine
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare
>
>
> Hello Everybody
>
> It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've
> been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering
> the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered
> me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of
> compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the
> spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi
Could one of you kind gentleman do me a favor and call and get me a copy sent out
with a membership pack as well.It would be greatly appreciated.
Address is
Carson Vella
38 Bell Rd
Glasshouse mountains
Queensland 4518
Australia
Thanks in advance
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165485#165485
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Tapered Spar Scare |
Build to the prints and you'll not fit in it?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare
Dear Brown,
If the rib is securely glued to the spar, the taper, in the calculation,
disappears, I think.
In my print, the fwd spar had a gusset that fit the flat spar, and the rear
needed a small wedge to fill the void. If you build to the print, it's
fine.
Whew, in the last few weeks everyone is trying to reinvent the
wheel,,,well in this case Bernard's prints.
Build to the prints and you'll be fine
Build to the prints and you'll be fine
Build to the prints and you'll be fine
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare
>
>
> Hello Everybody
>
> It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list.
> I've
> been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering
> the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has bothered
> me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of
> compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the
> spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
That's a great testimony, Max!
In the last few days, 3 alternatives have been mentioned: Pine, Fir and
Poplar. Is everyone who is using a Spruce alternative using Fir for the
spars?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MaxHegler
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Poplar is also rot and insect resistant like cedar and cypress. My house,
built in 1875 has never had any exterior or interior boards replaced until I
cut out an opening for a door. The wood still had a green tint where I cut
it. Good stuff!
Max
On 2/21/08 7:40 AM, "AMsafetyC(at)aol.com" wrote:
Gary,
I have not had any problems meeting the specs, the only problem so far is
trying to find the best of the stack for my Piet, The only thing I have
encountered so far is that straight board once ripped, the rips can change
shape and twist, but that only happened in one piece of stock the rest has
had a nice straight consistent grain with few knots and nice growth ring
pattern. I an still working with my initial stock purchase of poplar which I
spent $8900 and have all my structural pieces complete in addition to the
turtle deck and still have some left.
I just really love working with it. the coloration differences are
perplexing in that it changes along a board or inside of rip can take on a
green color. I have not noticed any weakness or changes in strength, ply
ability or bonding capability. I think its a great alternative to the more
expensive woods, sitka spruce and with a minimal penalty in weight it
matches up really good in the wood charts as an alternative.
John
In a message dated 2/20/2008 10:43:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gboothe(at)calply.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
John,
Just wondering, are you finding it difficult to find poplar that fits the
grain description in 43.13?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all aspects.
Except of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my luck it
takes a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable, readily
available fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all the
makings of perfect.
John Recine
Lititz pa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:03
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir can
be
used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of
Catdesigns
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them). I
cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with $15 to
$20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
_____
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
ist Email Forum -
l-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Dear Walt,
AMEN to that!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165497#165497
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
Testimonial....
I met Walt in NJ 2 summers ago. After showing me his plane he was kind and
generous enough to take me for a ride. I am about 210lbs which he told me
is lighter than some of his other passengers. The plane climbed nicely and
we (at least I) had a GREAT time. That was all made possible by Walt's
sticking to the plans and building one of the lightest Piets around... 595
lbs!!!! That was my best lesson in learning to resist temptations to
reengineer the plans.
At 210 I still had no problem in the front seat. I think if the Piet is too
tight a squeeze for you it probably makes more sense to get yourself down to
the right size than bring the Piet up to the wrong size. ...and the wing
didn't break on that windy, bumpy day.
On 2/21/08, walt evans wrote:
>
> Dear Brown,
> If the rib is securely glued to the spar, the taper, in the calculation,
> disappears, I think.
> In my print, the fwd spar had a gusset that fit the flat spar, and the
> rear
> needed a small wedge to fill the void. If you build to the print, it's
> fine.
>
> Whew, in the last few weeks everyone is trying to reinvent the
> wheel,,,well in this case Bernard's prints.
> Build to the prints and you'll be fine
> Build to the prints and you'll be fine
> Build to the prints and you'll be fine
>
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "No one ever learned anything by talking"
> Ben Franklin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brown Gravy" <mjs.browngravy(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 11:48 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tapered Spar Scare
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hello Everybody
> >
> > It's been a long time since I've contributed anything to the list. I've
> > been reading the postings quietly, but recently the question of tapering
> > the top of the spars to match the profile of the wing section has
> bothered
> > me. I'm concerned that tapering the spars my lead to a concentration of
> > compression forces at the tip of the taper and result to failure of the
> > spar. Has anyone done an analysis of the tapered spars?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165034#165034
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Thats a great testimony, Max!
>
> In the last few days, 3 alternatives have been mentioned: Pine, Fir
> and Poplar. Is everyone who is using a Spruce alternative using Fir
> for the spars?
>
Let's add the fourth alternative: plywood web. I haven't decided yet
which to use. Not pine, but poplar would do well. One fellow I chatted
with some years ago was using hemlock, and another planned to use Port
Orford cedar. Both seemed reasonable choices.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce PurchaseFour. You forgot Hemlock. As per
AC43.13-1B, strength
"slightly exceeds Spruce. If I could get it in the necessary
size I would use it for spars. It's all made into mill-work.
Clif
"If I had 8 hours to cut down a tree,,,I'd spend the first 6 sharpening
the axe"
ABE LINCOLN
That's a great testimony, Max!
In the last few days, 3 alternatives have been mentioned: Pine, Fir
and Poplar. Is everyone who is using a Spruce alternative using Fir for
the spars?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
MaxHegler
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:48 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Poplar is also rot and insect resistant like cedar and cypress. My
house, built in 1875 has never had any exterior or interior boards
replaced until I cut out an opening for a door. The wood still had a
green tint where I cut it. Good stuff!
Max
On 2/21/08 7:40 AM, "AMsafetyC(at)aol.com" wrote:
Gary,
I have not had any problems meeting the specs, the only problem so far
is trying to find the best of the stack for my Piet, The only thing I
have encountered so far is that straight board once ripped, the rips can
change shape and twist, but that only happened in one piece of stock the
rest has had a nice straight consistent grain with few knots and nice
growth ring pattern. I an still working with my initial stock purchase
of poplar which I spent $8900 and have all my structural pieces complete
in addition to the turtle deck and still have some left.
I just really love working with it. the coloration differences are
perplexing in that it changes along a board or inside of rip can take on
a green color. I have not noticed any weakness or changes in strength,
ply ability or bonding capability. I think its a great alternative to
the more expensive woods, sitka spruce and with a minimal penalty in
weight it matches up really good in the wood charts as an alternative.
John
In a message dated 2/20/2008 10:43:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gboothe(at)calply.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
John,
Just wondering, are you finding it difficult to find poplar that fits
the
grain description in 43.13?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:39 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
I am using poplar in my build and rather pleased with it from all
aspects.
Except of course my newly acquired allergic reaction to it. Just my
luck it
takes a few days of misery to get past the love of the build
All in all poplar is amazing stuff to work with strong, stable,
readily
available fro the local wood guy and a lot less expensive. Has all
the
makings of perfect.
John Recine
Lititz pa
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:03
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Has anyone utilized an alternate to Spruce. I know that Doug Fir is
considered acceptable - heavier but stronger. AC43-13 allows that fir
can be
used at a lesser dimension, provided it is AC grade. Just curious....
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Catdesigns
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:30 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Purchase
Just noticed I made a mistake in my previous email. My spars are are
3/4-inch by 4 3/4-inch.
Also, shipping from Corona to Sacramento, $110 (estimated by them).
I
cant drive down there for less then $110. Frequently I get hit with
$15 to
$20 shipping on small boxes so this sounded good to me.
Chris
--------
Chris Tracy
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165264#165264
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos
-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
ist Email Forum -
l-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
;- List Contribution Web Site -
; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/21/2008 4:09 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE 11-07 |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
I found this on the RV-10 list this morning and thought I'd pass it on.
This is what happens when you let computers control airplanes. Glad I
decided not to put the fly-by-wire and flight control computers in my
Pietenpol.
Jack Phillips
Shivering in 34 degree rain in North Carolina
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE 11-07
TIMEOUT FOR HUMOR
Arabs WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE 11-07
These are pictures of the wreck of a brand new A340-600, that had never
flown. (never saw (1) hour in the air)
Thank these French and their Arab friends for this bit of "comedy of
errors".
Nine employees of the Arab airline were in the aircraft, but "no
employees"
from Airbus were present.
The Arab's taxied out to the run-up area.
Then they took all four engines to takeoff power with virtually an empty
aircraft. (They obvious didn't read the run-up manuals.)
No chocks were set, (not that it would have mattered at that power
setting).
"Brakes will not hold it back at full power anyway".
As it turns out the takeoff warning horn was blaring away in the cockpit
because they had all FOUR engines at full power.
The aircraft computers thought they were trying to takeoff but it had
not
been configured properly (flaps/slats, etc, etc).
Then one of these brain surgeons decided to pull the "Ground Sense"
circuit breaker to quiet the alarms.
This fools the aircraft into thinking it is in the air."A big, big
mistake"!
As soon as they did that, the computers automaticlly "released" all the
brakes. ("this is a Safety feature so that pilots don't land with the
brakes
on".)There was No time to stop and no one smart enough thought to reduce
the
max power setting.....
So the rest is as you see it below.
No one is talking, so who knows if there were survivors.
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | To All the Newbies |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Things have gotten busy on this list lately. Welcome to all the new
members of the list.
I think we can put the blame for a lot of the new interest squarely on
the shoulders of Dick Navratil and his new round-engined Piet on the
cover of Sport Aviation. Well done, Dick.
For those of you out there that are not aware of it, there are a couple
of resources that I haven't heard mentioned lately, so I thought I'd
bring them up.
1. The Pietenpol Frappr site. It is a map that shows where a lot of
Piet builders/owners are located. Go to this site to see if there's
anyone near your location, and add yourself, and a photo, if you like:
http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol
2. Glenn Thomas' Pietenpol Directory. Glenn is a grumpy guy, but he
has a nice website. Just kidding - Glenn is a first-class individual,
and has generously offered a page of his website where we can all list
our info. Up near the top of the home page (on the left side) of Glenn's
really nice Pietenpol Build website, there is a link to a directory of
Pietenpol Builders/owners that has a lot of the members of this list
registered. For some reason, it seems that recently, the list has become
populated with Viagra messages, but if you scroll down past the first
six or seven entries, you'll get to the real registrants. Everyone is
welcome to post their info at this site as well. Here's the link for
that one:
http://www.flyingwood.com/
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE 11-07 |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal wrote:
> I found this on the RV-10 list this morning and thought I'd pass it on.
> This is what happens when you let computers control airplanes. Glad I
> decided not to put the fly-by-wire and flight control computers in my
> Pietenpol.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Shivering in 34 degree rain in North Carolina
>
> --
Oopsy. This happened during a ground run-up. The brakes were full on, then something
happened and it broke loose. There were 7-8 test personnel on board and
a few were injured. The airplane is a bit messed up!
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165547#165547
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To All the Newbies |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="eng(at)canadianrogers.com"]For some reason, it seems that recently, the
list has become populated with Viagra messages, but if you scroll down past
the first six or seven entries, you'll get to the real registrants.
Bill C.
> [b]
With a URL like "flyingwood" what would you expect!? [Laughing]
Just grab the right joystick when it's time to flare...
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165548#165548
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com"]Fellow Pieters:
Does fiberglass deteriorate in gas after time? Specifically a fiberglass rod
such as a driveway marker?
Ken H
Be a better friend, newshound, and
> [b]
The key is the resin system. Fiberglass is just that - fiberglass - and it is vey
resistant to most chemicals. The choice of resin binder system is what determines
chemical compatibilty in a composite material. There are several choices
- epoxy, vinyl ester, polyester, melamine, thermoplastics... the list goes on,
all depends on the product. You would have to test. If in doubt and you want
a rod for a specific purpose I'd suggest McMaster Carr or some other place so
you can buy something that can be identified.
Amsafetyc - what do you mean you doubt it is even gas after 45 days...? Ethanol
or methanol and gasoline are compatible and don't react. If they did there would
be quite a few consumer warnings to drain auto gas tanks and not to store
lawnmower gas for longer than a month.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165551#165551
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To All the Newbies |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
I just cleaned all the garbage out of that list 2 days ago and it's back again!
I'm going to use the snow excuse to get out of work early today and fix that problem
once and for all. The real problem is that I tried to make things easily
accessible so you wouldn't need an id and password. I'll have to lock it down
and release a general id and password to the whole list. Maybe while I'm at
it I'll add in different options for sorting the list and a search so you can
find people by name/location.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165553#165553
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Clif,
What about spars of laminated strips of Hemlock?
Or do you have other plans...
Bill
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
If I could get it in the necessary size I would use it for spars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
Compatibility between alcohols and gasoline is not disputed however anyone
that's tried using old gasoline has experienced the impact of fuel that has
degraded into both varnish and gum and crud which have little value as a
motor fuel.
I guess you have never had to clean a carburetor that was gunked up form old
fuel.
Again from personal experience and information I have gleaned; gasoline does
have a shelf life because of its inability to retain its properties as a
motor fuel, from what I have read. I suppose that's the reason many
manufacturers of utility and recreational engines recommend that prolonged storage
of the
engine, fuel should be removed or treated with a stabilizing agent as
provided in the instructions in the storage section of the manual.
>From personal experience with my motorcycle I know that to be true!
So what exactly are your disputing in my slightly exaggerated statement of
45 day no longer being gasoline?
I look forward to learning about experience in using old gasoline.
John
In a message dated 2/22/2008 9:37:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mjdt(at)auracom.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MikeD"
[quote="kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com"]Fellow Pieters:
Does fiberglass deteriorate in gas after time? Specifically a fiberglass rod
such as a driveway marker?
Ken H
Be a better friend, newshound, and
> [b]
The key is the resin system. Fiberglass is just that - fiberglass - and it
is vey resistant to most chemicals. The choice of resin binder system is what
determines chemical compatibilty in a composite material. There are several
choices - epoxy, vinyl ester, polyester, melamine, thermoplastics... the list
goes on, all depends on the product. You would have to test. If in doubt and
you want a rod for a specific purpose I'd suggest McMaster Carr or some other
place so you can buy something that can be identified.
Amsafetyc - what do you mean you doubt it is even gas after 45 days...?
Ethanol or methanol and gasoline are compatible and don't react. If they did
there would be quite a few consumer warnings to drain auto gas tanks and not to
store lawnmower gas for longer than a month.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165551#165551
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE |
11-07
That will buff out.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE
11-07
>
>
> Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal wrote:
>> I found this on the RV-10 list this morning and thought I'd pass it on.
>> This is what happens when you let computers control airplanes. Glad I
>> decided not to put the fly-by-wire and flight control computers in my
>> Pietenpol.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> Shivering in 34 degree rain in North Carolina
>>
>> --
>
>
> Oopsy. This happened during a ground run-up. The brakes were full on, then
> something happened and it broke loose. There were 7-8 test personnel on
> board and a few were injured. The airplane is a bit messed up!
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165547#165547
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Control question |
I have a question regarding control travel. I'm building my control column and
would like to know how much travel the stick has before it hits the stops. If
someone who has a flying piet with controls made to the plans would give me
some measurements of stick deflection. IF you have a stock length stick then
maybe a distance forward and aft from vertical to the control stops and then a
distance right and left from vertical to the stops. If your stick isn't stock
length then a distance up the stick that the deflection was measured at would
be helpful. I'll put my stops in once everything is assembled and I check actual
control surface movement. I just want to know so I can check on my installation
of the control column itself. Thank you to anyone who will take the
time to measure this for me.
Mike Groah
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
For what it's worth.
If anyone doubts that alcohol will harm fiberglass, all you need to do is
contact "Boat US". Hugh problem with boat fuel tanks since alcohol was
introduced into gas.
Most Avid Airplane kits come with fiberglass tanks and a number of problems
reported if alcohol was used.
I'd be very careful before I put anything firberglass in a gas tank if there
is any possibility you will use alcohol.
I have been told that there is a alcohol resistant resin that can be used,
as Mike suggests.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Hi Gary,
I definitely am using Fir for the spars. I have the planks for them now but have
not decided if I will use them as is or cut them up and do laminated spars like
MIke Cuy and other have done. Easier to use a planks so it will probably depend
on what kind of a time crunch when I get to the wings.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
We are having an Aerobatics special on our radio show this week. We will
have Patty Wagstaff as a guest. We will also have aerobatics instructor and
former Red Barron Squadron member Keoki Gray as a guest. It should be a lot
of fun. Check the web site below to listen.
Brian Kraut
www.flighttimeradio.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
I had not heard that laminating spars was OK. Fine by me if it is, but is it
easier to find four good pieces of wood, or worry about all those glue
joints? If the joints are not a problem, do all the pieces have to be full
length? Just thinking 'out loud'...
Speaking of Mike Cuy; did you purchase his video? It sounds like it would be
helpful.
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimboyer(at)hughes.net
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Hi Gary,
I definitely am using Fir for the spars. I have the planks for them now but
have not decided if I will use them as is or cut them up and do laminated
spars like MIke Cuy and other have done. Easier to use a planks so it will
probably depend on what kind of a time crunch when I get to the wings.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
I know you're not talking to me but I would have to say that Mike's video
and Chuck's video are both good resources to have. You will pick up some
nice little bits of advice like lengthening some of the metal fittings,
etc.
Mike's video speaks more to the construction, desing, modification and
Chucks more to the flying. Both have elements of each. I watch mine
frequently.
That's my unsolicited $0.02.
Glenn
On 2/22/08, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> I had not heard that laminating spars was OK. Fine by me if it is, but i
s
> it easier to find four good pieces of wood, or worry about all those glue
> joints? If the joints are not a problem, do all the pieces have to be fu
ll
> length? Just thinking 'out loud'=85..
>
>
> Speaking of Mike Cuy; did you purchase his video? It sounds like it would
> be helpful.
>
>
> Gary
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> jimboyer(at)hughes.net
> *Sent:* Friday, February 22, 2008 9:48 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> I definitely am using Fir for the spars. I have the planks for them now
> but have not decided if I will use them as is or cut them up and do
> laminated spars like MIke Cuy and other have done. Easier to use a planks
so
> it will probably depend on what kind of a time crunch when I get to the
> wings.
>
> Cheers, Jim
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
If done properly, the glue joint is stronger than the wood, especially with
modern glues. So a laminated spar is actually stronger than a solid spar.
AC 43-13 1B permits the replacement of a solid spar with a laminated spar.
(If you don't have a copy, you need to get one - and read it).
The wood used for solid spars is usually the best quality wood available, as
it is basically carrying the whole load. Most of the other members in the
airplane are gusseted and reinforced, whereas the spar "is what it is". It
is much easier to get hold of fourteen-foot lengths of 3/4" x 3/4" (or 3/4"
x 1/2", or whatever) wood with the proper characteristics (growth rings,
grain runout, etc) than it is to find fourteen-foot lengths of 3/4" x 5"
clear wood that meets the specs. If joints in the lamination strips cannot
be avoided, they must be scarfed joints, staggered as far apart as possible,
and located as far outboard as possible (where the stresses are lower).
Laminated spars is not a new idea. I have read that BH Pietenpol used
laminated spars in his later creations.
Laminated spars are definitely more labor intensive, but if you are paying
yourself the same wage that I'm paying myself to build my plane, the labor
cost is negligible. There should be a definite savings in material cost,
though.
Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to use a laminated spar. But I'm planning to
use a built-up spar like they do in the UK. It is reportedly stronger,
lighter and cheaper than a solid Spruce spar.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
I had not heard that laminating spars was OK. Fine by me if it is, but is it
easier to find four good pieces of wood, or worry about all those glue
joints? If the joints are not a problem, do all the pieces have to be full
length? Just thinking 'out loud'...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
>From Pietenpol's notes on how he built the first Air Camper designed to use the
Corvair:
"The wing spars were made of seven 3/4" x 3/4" strips ans 1/8" plywood plates on
the sides, where all the fittings and ribs are located."
Personally, I would recommend Mike Cuy's video. It is a very interesting walkthrough
of a beautiful airplane, numerous motivational flying sequences, and all
sorts of construction methods, hints, and tricks that he used.
Ryan
Gary Boothe wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
I had not heard that laminating spars was OK. Fine by me if it is,
but is it easier to find four good pieces of wood, or worry about all those glue
joints? If the joints are not a problem, do all the pieces have to be full
length? Just thinking out loud..
Speaking of Mike Cuy; did you purchase his video? It sounds like it would be
helpful.
Gary
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tapered Spar Scare |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Dear Glenn,
AMEN to that!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165633#165633
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Control question |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I'm planning to fly this weekend, I'll check.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165635#165635
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: To All the Newbies |
To add to Bill's list, check out Chris Tracy's website at
www.westcoastpiet.com
Lots of pictures and info, including alternative spar information.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: To All the Newbies
Things have gotten busy on this list lately. Welcome to all the new
members of the list.
I think we can put the blame for a lot of the new interest squarely on
the shoulders of Dick Navratil and his new round-engined Piet on the
cover of Sport Aviation. Well done, Dick.
For those of you out there that are not aware of it, there are a
couple of resources that I haven't heard mentioned lately, so I thought
I'd bring them up.
1. The Pietenpol Frappr site. It is a map that shows where a lot of
Piet builders/owners are located. Go to this site to see if there's
anyone near your location, and add yourself, and a photo, if you like:
http://www.frappr.com/pietenpol
2. Glenn Thomas' Pietenpol Directory. Glenn is a grumpy guy, but he
has a nice website. Just kidding - Glenn is a first-class individual,
and has generously offered a page of his website where we can all list
our info. Up near the top of the home page (on the left side) of Glenn's
really nice Pietenpol Build website, there is a link to a directory of
Pietenpol Builders/owners that has a lot of the members of this list
registered. For some reason, it seems that recently, the list has become
populated with Viagra messages, but if you scroll down past the first
six or seven entries, you'll get to the real registrants. Everyone is
welcome to post their info at this site as well. Here's the link for
that one:
http://www.flyingwood.com/
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control question |
On NX18235 the rudder stops are placed so the rudder won't hit the
elevator.
Aileron stops are installed but are pointless since the stick hits my
legs before the stops.
No elevator stops installed.
I know you asked for measurements but since no two are built alike.....
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Groah
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control question
I have a question regarding control travel. I'm building my control
column and would like to know how much travel the stick has before it
hits the stops. If someone who has a flying piet with controls made to
the plans would give me some measurements of stick deflection. IF you
have a stock length stick then maybe a distance forward and aft from
vertical to the control stops and then a distance right and left from
vertical to the stops. If your stick isn't stock length then a distance
up the stick that the deflection was measured at would be helpful. I'll
put my stops in once everything is assembled and I check actual control
surface movement. I just want to know so I can check on my installation
of the control column itself. Thank you to anyone who will take the
time to measure this for me.
Mike Groah
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> I had not heard that laminating spars was OK. Fine by me if it is, but
> is it easier to find four good pieces of wood, or worry about all
> those glue joints? If the joints are not a problem, do all the pieces
> have to be full length?
>
If you look inside early Cubs and the like, you will find solid plank
spars, laminated full-length sticks, laminations with spliced
sticks--pretty much whatever they had on hand. It all worked, even
before the development of modern glues. I live in Florida, where
spar-quality wood is relatively easy to find if you don't mind paying
boatyard prices, but my spars are likely to be pieced up from the best
sticks I can find at the local lumberyard.
Of course, my current plan is to save weight by using a one-piece wing,
and a plywood-web spar would save a little bit more. It also avoids
having to plane down 5/4 or 2x stock because 1x is not even an honest
3/4 these days.
Last thought: I'd seriously consider poplar, especially for a
plywood-web spar. It habitually grows straighter than anything else that
is readily available, and any weight penalty pretty much disappears if
you combine it with plywood.
Comments invited.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
When you buy your stock, buy rough stock or hit and miss, then when you plane it
yourself you can get a good 7/8 or 13/16 from 4/4 stock.
Del
. It also avoids
having to plane down 5/4 or 2x stock because 1x is not even an honest
3/4 these days.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com"
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Hi Gary,
The UK Pietenpol group is required to use laminated spars I believe by their equivalent
of the FAA. The approved spars are laminated as seen in Peter's photos
on his web site (Peter is in Australia). I believe Mike laminated his spars
and several others have a well.
Laminated spars are stronger than plain plank spars. The glue joints are stronger
than the wood so don't worry about that, just get good coverage with the glue;
I'm using T88 epoxy and I think Chuck Gantzer also used T88.
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
>
> The UK Pietenpol group is required to use laminated spars I believe by
> their equivalent of the FAA. The approved spars are laminated as seen
> in Peter's photos on his web site (Peter is in Australia). I believe
> Mike laminated his spars and several others have a well.
>
Does anyone have the URL for Peter's site? I'd like to look at it.
Thanks.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Owen,
http://www.cpc-world.com.
Peter.
Wonthaggi Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies
Sent: Saturday, 23 February 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
>
> The UK Pietenpol group is required to use laminated spars I believe by
> their equivalent of the FAA. The approved spars are laminated as seen
> in Peter's photos on his web site (Peter is in Australia). I believe
> Mike laminated his spars and several others have a well.
>
Does anyone have the URL for Peter's site? I'd like to look at it.
Thanks.
Owen
6:39 PM
6:39 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
http://www.cpc-world.com/
is Peter's site. Also, I think someone asked for Chuck G's contact info regarding
his video. His site is located at:
http://nx770cg.com/
There is contact info there. I have no idea how current, but it's better than nothing.
Good night,
Ryan
jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
>
> The UK Pietenpol group is required to use laminated spars I believe by
> their equivalent of the FAA. The approved spars are laminated as seen
> in Peter's photos on his web site (Peter is in Australia). I believe
> Mike laminated his spars and several others have a well.
>
Does anyone have the URL for Peter's site? I'd like to look at it.
Thanks.
Owen
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce PurchaseI'm working on the cabanes now.
They are solid hemlock
stock. The widest part is 3/4" X 2 1/4" fully streamlined,
narrowing to 3/4 X 1 1/4" at the ends with bolted, 3" long
metal plates on each side.
Going to Victoria this weekend so won't be answering
messages until Tuesday. Or working on the struts!
Just so you know. :-)
Clif
No computers in my plane either!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Clif,
What about spars of laminated strips of Hemlock?
Or do you have other plans...
Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:05 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
If I could get it in the necessary size I would use it for spars.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/22/2008 6:39 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Sorry Bill, your mixing things up. The glue joint is only
stronger when you try to pull it apart or twist it. In which case
the wood will BREAK and splinter before the glue itself
will separate.
In a spar you have three basic situations. One edge will be
in compression, the opposite edge will be in tension and
the center is neutral. The glue is not like a strip of carbon
fibre which adds strength to those areas that are pushed or
pulled, as in the outer parts of a spar. That would require
the glue to have tensile and compression strengths it just
does not have. If it did you could simply paint a layer on
both edges of any spar to increase it's strength.
The sole purpose of laminating is to use smaller, shorter,
narrower, etc. material to save material and cost.
Bernard experimented with this to allow those without the
mony to buy gold, er, spruce solid boards, to afford to
build the wings.
I have found that around here it's easy to find very nice
flat grain boards. Edge grain is VERY hard to come by.
So I will buy 2 by 6,8,10 boards, rip them to 1 3/16" strips,
glue them to make an edge grain spar then plane that
down to 1". After all, I do gotta use this planer I bought
for something! right?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
If done properly, the glue joint is stronger than the wood, especially
with modern glues. So a laminated spar is actually stronger than a solid
spar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James" <jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE |
11-07
Let that be a lesson to all who wish to do "non-computer assisted" runups.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of MikeD
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RV10-List: WRECKED A340-600 at TULOUSE FRANCE
11-07
Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal wrote:
> I found this on the RV-10 list this morning and thought I'd pass it
> on. This is what happens when you let computers control airplanes.
> Glad I decided not to put the fly-by-wire and flight control computers
> in my Pietenpol.
>
> Jack Phillips
> Shivering in 34 degree rain in North Carolina
>
> --
Oopsy. This happened during a ground run-up. The brakes were full on, then
something happened and it broke loose. There were 7-8 test personnel on
board and a few were injured. The airplane is a bit messed up!
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165547#165547
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Plywood Spar Webs |
Owen,
I am planning on using a plywood web as well. What size are you using? I
bought 1/8, 45 degree but am wondering now whether it is hefty enough. I am
currently working on the metal and the gear, so I've got plenty of time to get
input and figure it out.
Ron
In a message dated 2/22/2008 7:18:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
owen5819(at)comcast.net writes:
Of course, my current plan is to save weight by using a one-piece wing,
and a plywood-web spar would save a little bit more. It also avoids
having to plane down 5/4 or 2x stock because 1x is not even an honest
3/4 these days.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Hi all,
This poplar question has me wondering. First of all, I could be all
wet, but...After checking all of Tony's books and other EAA
publications, I can't find any reference to poplar being a suitable
substitution to spruce for structural applications. If it is, great!
Just wanted to be sure someone has checked it out.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Jack T. Textor wrote:
> This poplar question has me wondering. First of all, I could be all
> wet, but...After checking all of Tony's books and other EAA
> publications, I can't find any reference to poplar being a suitable
> substitution to spruce for structural applications. If it is, great!
> Just wanted to be sure someone has checked it out.
You'll find it in AC.43-13a (or whatever the number is. I swear, it was
right here on my hard drive not five...er, years ago.)
In any case, the approved woods are really just a list of what was good
enough, cheap, and easy to get back when they did the testing. For
example, Sitka spruce was commercially available and inexpensive, so
they specified that. Black spruce is just as good. Back then, it wasn't
a commercial product, so it wasn't listed. These days it's a lot
cheaper--if you can be sure what you are getting. Unfortunately, I'm not
enough of a wood scientist to go through the SPF pile at the Borg and be
sure it's the right species. That pretty much limits me to DF and poplar.
Fundamentally, you can use anything you darned well feel like, so long
as it meets your design specs. Following the rules just saves you the
trouble of testing.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Jack,
Here is a link to an article by Ron Alexander, discussing aircraft wood. He lists
the various advisory circulars and mil-specs to use for reference. He also
does mention Yellow Poplar in his list of alternatives to spruce.
http://www.sportair.com/articles/2Aircraft%20Wood%20-%20Part%20One.html
Ryan
Hi all,
This poplar question has me wondering. First of all, I could be all
wet, but...After checking all of Tony's books and other EAA
publications, I can't find any reference to poplar being a suitable
substitution to spruce for structural applications. If it is, great!
Just wanted to be sure someone has checked it out.
Jack
www.textors.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Spar Webs |
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am planning on using a plywood web as well. What size are you
> using? I bought 1/8, 45 degree but am wondering now whether it is
> hefty enough. I am currently working on the metal and the gear, so
> I've got plenty of time to get input and figure it out.
My understanding is that the PFA-approved plans call for 1/8. Not sure
if it's 45-degree, it that would make sense, of course. This is with the
web on the front side and some parts of the back, especially the center
section and perhaps 18 inches centered on the strut attach fittings.
Using an I-beam structure, I don't know what you would need.
FWIW, Paul Best's article from the April 1961 edition of Sport Aviation
shows a solid spruce spar 6 x 1-5/8 inches as having a bending strength
of 60,000 lb. A version with a 1/8 birch plywood web and spruce caps
made up from 1 x 3/4 spruce (2-1/8 total spar thickness) is quoted at
the same strength. So is a version with a 3/32-inch mahogany plywood web
and caps made from 1 x 1-1/4 mahogany (2-3/32 total spar thickness.) His
illustration shows 45-degree grain, and the text mentions cutting and
splicing from 90-degree marine plywood.
The interesting difference is the weight. Best shows the plank spar as
weighing 1.827 lb per foot. The 1/8 ply with spruce comes in at 1.340
lb/ft, the mahogany/ply version at only 1.200 lb/ft. For a Piet, the
mahogany/ply spar saves over 17.5 lb.
A correction appended to the article modifies all of the above slightly,
but the basic concepts remain correct.
Here is the part I love: Best quotes the price of spruce at $1.05 per
foot, with the spruce/birch ply coming in at $0.97 per foot and the
mahogany/mahogany ply at just $0.65! We may need to adjust those figures
slightly.
Incidentally, the article quotes ANC 18 as recommending lamination of
spar caps to eliminate the risk that hidden defects will compromise the
spar.
There is a reference to NACA Report 344, "The Design of Plywood Webs for
Airplane Wing Beams," which sounds well worth having. I believe it
should be available online, though I can't recall where. If anyone has
the URL, I'd love to know.
Ah. Just found it at a UK mirror site:
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/report.php?NID=908. There are a
number of other really interesting reports linked from
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/citations/1931-cit.html. I am
downloading some of them now!
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
For further information on this, see NACA Report 354, available at
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1931/naca-report-354.pdf.
Its list of woods "now common in aircraft service" includes white ash;
balsa; basswood; yellow birch; mahogany; sugar maple; oak; white pine;
yellow poplar; red, Sitka, and white spruce; and black walnut. This
paper mentions only the spruces for spars, but AC43.13a is more inclusive.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Clif Dawson wrote:
> Sorry Bill, your mixing things up. The glue joint is only
> stronger when you try to pull it apart or twist it. In which case
> the wood will BREAK and splinter before the glue itself
> will separate. ...
Yup.
> The sole purpose of laminating is to use smaller, shorter,
> narrower, etc. material to save material and cost.
Not really. It also eliminates much of the risk from hidden defects. Not
only do you get a much finer look at the wood--N times as many
opportunities to find trouble, where N is the number of laminations--but
if a hidden weakness in one lamination does break there is a good chance
the next layer will stop the crack and keep you in the air.
> I have found that around here it's easy to find very nice
> flat grain boards.
Wish I could say that!
Back in New Hampshire, much too long ago, I did cut my rib sticks from
some beautiful flat-sawn pine. The long pieces for top and bottom warped
like pretzels and had to be discarded.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
In reading comments by Mr. Pietenpol about the longer version fuselage, I
notice that he recommends 4" longer struts and slanted back 3". Would anyone
on the list care to comment about those recommendations?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Ryan and Owen,
Good reference info, thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Jack,
Here is a link to an article by Ron Alexander, discussing aircraft wood.
He lists the various advisory circulars and mil-specs to use for
reference. He also does mention Yellow Poplar in his list of
alternatives to spruce.
http://www.sportair.com/articles/2Aircraft%20Wood%20-%20Part%20One.html
Ryan
"Jack T. Textor" wrote:
Hi all,
This poplar question has me wondering. First of all, I could be all
wet, but...After checking all of Tony's books and other EAA
publications, I can't find any reference to poplar being a suitable
substitution to spruce for structural applications. If it is, great!
Just wanted to be sure someone has checked it out.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Jack and all,
I got to see Larry Harrison's Poplar Piet. I noticed the longerons were
spruce and asked him about it. He said he did not use poplar for longerons
or spars.
I would not use poplar for any part of the airplane that is very long or
needs to flex. The fibers in poplar are allot shorter than they are in any
type of spruce. To test this take a piece of each and rip it on the band
saw. The sawdust from poplar is just that, dust, the sawdust from spruce is
long and stringy. Poplar is great to work with and would be great for the
V-blocks in the fuse side where you want a hard place to drill a hole or
anyplace that needs to be strong mainly in compression. It is also great
for drawer sides, but that has nothing to do with airplanes.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
> To:
> Date: 2/23/2008 9:28:17 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
>
>
> Hi all,
> This poplar question has me wondering. First of all, I could be all
> wet, but...After checking all of Tony's books and other EAA
> publications, I can't find any reference to poplar being a suitable
> substitution to spruce for structural applications. If it is, great!
> Just wanted to be sure someone has checked it out.
> Jack
> www.textors.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Struts |
Are you talking about flying struts? Never heard this before.
Rick
On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> In reading comments by Mr. Pietenpol about the longer version fuselage, I
> notice that he recommends 4" longer struts and slanted back 3". Would anyone
> on the list care to comment about those recommendations?
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, CA
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | AmsafetyC(at)aol.com |
Jack
There a few tables that show all the useable woods and their strength,weight and
features. By comparison yellow poplar was listed with almost identical numbers
as the spruce. With that info and local availability the poplar met my needs
John
Piet in poplar
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:08:26
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Ryan and Owen,
Good reference info, thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
----------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:24 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Jack,
Here is a link to an article by Ron Alexander, discussing aircraft wood. He lists
the various advisory circulars and mil-specs to use for reference. He also
does mention Yellow Poplar in his list of alternatives to spruce.
http://www.sportair.com/articles/2Aircraft%20Wood%20-%20Part%20One.html
Ryan
"Jack T. Textor" wrote:
Hi all,
This poplar question has me wondering. First of all, I could be all
wet, but...After checking all of Tony's books and other EAA
publications, I can't find any reference to poplar being a suitable
substitution to spruce for structural applications. If it is, great!
Just wanted to be sure someone has checked it out.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Spar Webs |
| From: | AmsafetyC(at)aol.com |
I am seriously considering 1 8th Aluminium web with poplar top and bottom flanges
I believe the last time I checked the metal was rated at almost 10 times the wood
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:11:05
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plywood Spar Webs
Pietsrneat(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am planning on using a plywood web as well. What size are you
> using? I bought 1/8, 45 degree but am wondering now whether it is
> hefty enough. I am currently working on the metal and the gear, so
> I've got plenty of time to get input and figure it out.
My understanding is that the PFA-approved plans call for 1/8. Not sure
if it's 45-degree, it that would make sense, of course. This is with the
web on the front side and some parts of the back, especially the center
section and perhaps 18 inches centered on the strut attach fittings.
Using an I-beam structure, I don't know what you would need.
FWIW, Paul Best's article from the April 1961 edition of Sport Aviation
shows a solid spruce spar 6 x 1-5/8 inches as having a bending strength
of 60,000 lb. A version with a 1/8 birch plywood web and spruce caps
made up from 1 x 3/4 spruce (2-1/8 total spar thickness) is quoted at
the same strength. So is a version with a 3/32-inch mahogany plywood web
and caps made from 1 x 1-1/4 mahogany (2-3/32 total spar thickness.) His
illustration shows 45-degree grain, and the text mentions cutting and
splicing from 90-degree marine plywood.
The interesting difference is the weight. Best shows the plank spar as
weighing 1.827 lb per foot. The 1/8 ply with spruce comes in at 1.340
lb/ft, the mahogany/ply version at only 1.200 lb/ft. For a Piet, the
mahogany/ply spar saves over 17.5 lb.
A correction appended to the article modifies all of the above slightly,
but the basic concepts remain correct.
Here is the part I love: Best quotes the price of spruce at $1.05 per
foot, with the spruce/birch ply coming in at $0.97 per foot and the
mahogany/mahogany ply at just $0.65! We may need to adjust those figures
slightly.
Incidentally, the article quotes ANC 18 as recommending lamination of
spar caps to eliminate the risk that hidden defects will compromise the
spar.
There is a reference to NACA Report 344, "The Design of Plywood Webs for
Airplane Wing Beams," which sounds well worth having. I believe it
should be available online, though I can't recall where. If anyone has
the URL, I'd love to know.
Ah. Just found it at a UK mirror site:
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/report.php?NID=908. There are a
number of other really interesting reports linked from
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/citations/1931-cit.html. I am
downloading some of them now!
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Spar Webs |
I was going to use it on an I-beam spar. I read the article below and
thought it would be substantial enough. However, once I looked at the 1/8" up
close, it just didn't seem like it would fly.
Ron
_http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Construction/I%20Beam%20Analysis.pdf_
(http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Construction/I%20Beam%20Analysis.pdf)
In a message dated 2/23/2008 11:16:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
owen5819(at)comcast.net writes:
Using an I-beam structure, I don't know what you would need.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Rick,
This is on page 2 of the =93Converting the Corvair Engine=94 guide,
under
=93MODIFICATIONS.=94 BHP discusses extending the fuse and a few other
things.
The exact quote is, =93The center struts were made 4=94 longer and
slanted back
3.=94
In this section, he also states that the =93=85.wing spars were made of
seven =BE=94
x =BE=94 strips and 1/8=94 plywood plates on the sides, where all the
fittings and
ribs are located=85=94
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center Struts
Are you talking about flying struts? Never heard this before.
Rick
On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Gary Boothe
wrote:
In reading comments by Mr. Pietenpol about the longer version fuselage,
I
notice that he recommends 4" longer struts and slanted back 3". Would
anyone
on the list care to comment about those recommendations?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plywood Spar Webs |
AmsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I am seriously considering 1 8th Aluminium web with poplar top and bottom flanges
How would you attach the poplar to the aluminum? Do remember that when
you glue to aluminum, unless you take some fairly challenging
precautions, you wind up gluing to the thin layer of aluminum oxide that
forms almost instantly when the metal is exposed to the air, not to the
metal itself. It's really not the kind of bond you want.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Hi Owen,
Here is the URL for Peter's site. I am so used to looking at it I
forgot to include the URL. His is a very good web site for Piet
builders.
http://www.cpc-world.com/main.php?insert_file=wing2.php
Cheers, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Thank you Peter. I look at your site quite alot and find it very
useful. Should have included it with my original message.
Thanks, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
Gary,
I'm pretty sure he is referring to the cabane struts. The four vertical struts
that connect the wing to the fuselage. Extending them four inches would give you
more headroom when entering or exiting the cockpits. Slanting them back would
be a technique used to get the CG within limits.
I don't think those statements are meant to be taken as recommendations when building
the long fuselage. Whether or not your struts end up slanted back would
depend on how your particular airplane weighs out, and if you need to do that
to bring the CG within limits. I believe raising the struts beyond plans would
be a matter of personal preference, as to whether or not you want the room getting
in or out. Others with more experience can comment on this; this is what
I've gleaned thus far. Have a good one,
Ryan
Gary Boothe wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
Rick,
This is on page 2 of the Converting the Corvair Engine guide, under MODIFICATIONS.
BHP discusses extending the fuse and a few other things. The exact quote
is, The center struts were made 4 longer and slanted back 3.
In this section, he also states that the .wing spars were made of seven x strips
and 1/8 plywood plates on the sides, where all the fittings and ribs are
located
Gary
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Struts |
Hi Gary,
Try getting in a Piet built to Bernie's original lenght cabane struts versus those
that are 3 to 4 inches longer. Big difference; especially when your legs aren't
as limber as when you were 18 to 30.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Ryan,
That was my take, too. He is definitely talking about weight and balance
issues concerning the stretched version. He went on to discuss moving
the
landing gear forward about 4=94, but I don=92t think very many have.
Thanks, Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:11 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center Struts
Gary,
I'm pretty sure he is referring to the cabane struts. The four vertical
struts that connect the wing to the fuselage. Extending them four inches
would give you more headroom when entering or exiting the cockpits.
Slanting
them back would be a technique used to get the CG within limits.
I don't think those statements are meant to be taken as recommendations
when
building the long fuselage. Whether or not your struts end up slanted
back
would depend on how your particular airplane weighs out, and if you need
to
do that to bring the CG within limits. I believe raising the struts
beyond
plans would be a matter of personal preference, as to whether or not you
want the room getting in or out. Others with more experience can comment
on
this; this is what I've gleaned thus far. Have a good one,
Ryan
Gary Boothe wrote:
Rick,
This is on page 2 of the =93Converting the Corvair Engine=94 guide,
under
=93MODIFICATIONS.=94 BHP discusses extending the fuse and a few other
things.
The exact quote is, =93The center struts were made 4=94 longer and
slanted back
3.=94
In this section, he also states that the =93=85.wing spars were made of
seven =BE=94
x =BE=94 strips and 1/8=94 plywood plates on the sides, where all the
fittings and
ribs are located=85=94
Gary
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Gary,
Bill Rewey says to move the axle forward 3" if you have brakes, thats what I did.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
He went on to discuss moving the landing gear forward about 4, but I dont think
very many have.
Thanks, Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Skip,
Thanks! That was Mr. Pietenpol's advice, too. Did you leave the attach
points the same and just change the geometry?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip
Gadd
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center Struts
Gary,
Bill Rewey says to move the axle forward 3" if you have brakes, thats
what I
did.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
He went on to discuss moving the landing gear forward about 4=14, but I
don=12t
think very many have.
Thanks, Gary
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Struts |
That's what I did also. Don't change the attachments, just the geometry.
According to Bill Rewey its needed if you install brakes.
Rick
On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Skip Gadd wrote:
> Gary,
> Bill Rewey says to move the axle forward 3" if you have brakes, thats what
> I did.
> Skip
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gary Boothe
>
>
> He went on to discuss moving the landing gear forward about 4", but I
> don't think very many have.
>
> Thanks, Gary
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Center Struts |
Pietenpol, in the notes, mentions that the gear were moved 7 inches forward so
a modified Cub landing gear gear and brakes could be installed. He said this was
too far forward. He felt the plans location provided the best landing characteristics,
but if you used the brakes for anything other than low speed taxying
(sic) this was too far back. He felt that splitting the difference was the
best course of action if you wanted to use brakes. Thusly, the 3 inches would
be appropriate. Hope that helps,
Ryan
Rick Holland wrote: That's what I did also. Don't change the
attachments, just the geometry. According to Bill Rewey its needed if you install
brakes.
Rick
On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Skip Gadd wrote:
Gary,
Bill Rewey says to move the axle forward 3" if you have brakes, thats what I did.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
He went on to discuss moving the landing gear forward about 4", but I don't
think very many have.
Thanks, Gary
---------------------------------
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I met and talked with Larry Harrison too. He's a great guy with a tremendous amount
of common sense and know-how. And like Skip said he didn't use poplar for
spars or longerons. Please be careful and know what you are putting into your
airplane. When you are bouncing around in nasty butt-puckering turbulence,
you and your passenger will be thankful!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165894#165894
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center Struts |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I believe later on Mr. Pietenpol felt that 4" was too much of an extension on the
cabanes because it gave somewhat of a pendulum effect with power changes.
He said 2" was probably a better amount to lengthen them. That's what I did and
many others have done. Decent head room getting in and out and behaves normally
with power changes.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165895#165895
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Gary,
Yes, Just change the geometry, like Rick said. You pretty much have to leave the
attach points the same as they should coincide with the uprights in the fuse
side.
Skip
Hales Landing West Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
Sent: 2/23/2008 9:11:49 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center Struts
Skip,
Thanks! That was Mr. Pietenpols advice, too. Did you leave the attach points the
same and just change the geometry?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skip Gadd
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Center Struts
Gary,
Bill Rewey says to move the axle forward 3" if you have brakes, thats what I did.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
He went on to discuss moving the landing gear forward about 4, but I dont think
very many have.
Thanks, Gary
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
I've cut out the rib where it interferes with the strap and 3/32 ply.
What is everyone else doing about the bottom 3/16" bolt that interferes
with the rib?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root |
rib
I noticed that interference before I drilled the brackets, and moved
the hole (and bolt) inboard so it would clear. It sounds like you and I
are at the same stage in our projects. I've been studying the archives
for trammeling advice, and hope to paint the hardware for my left wing
this afternoon.
Ben Charvet
Jack T. Textor wrote:
>
> Ive cut out the rib where it interferes with the strap and 3/32 ply.
> What is everyone else doing about the bottom 3/16 bolt that
> interferes with the rib?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jack
>
> www.textors.com
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib |
Jack:
I sheeted the 2 inboard ribs with 1/16 ply wood. I then cut and removed the lower
portion of the vertical 1/4 x 1/2 spruce member so that it only contacts the
spar where it is sheeted with the 3/32 ply. I then opened up the 1/16 ply sheeting
enough to allow for clearance on the lower 3/16" bolt.
I have completed my right wing and am actually attaching the inboard straps today.
I just took a couple of photos which I will attach
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, In
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
Sent: 2/24/2008 10:45:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib
Ive cut out the rib where it interferes with the strap and 3/32 ply. What is everyone
else doing about the bottom 3/16 bolt that interferes with the rib?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root |
rib
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Thanks Ben, I was thinking the same but may brace the rib with ply to
allow access to the bolt. After checking your progress on Chris's site,
your fuselage is further along than mine. Good luck with squaring the
wing.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Isablcorky(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root |
rib
Ben,
A little trammeling advise if I may:
Be sure your compression struts are precisely the same length. I added an
additional comp strut at the outer terminals
Make your cables with a few threads showing when first drawn up semitight.
Tram a little, tighten a little, tram again, tighten. When cables are tight
to your satisfaction, tune them. If you are non musical find a friend or
neighbor who plays guitar and ask their help
Corky
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root |
rib
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
I set my cables up to my AME standards which were to a thud, thud sound.
I'm not sure which tone you are looking for but I doubt if there is a
tuning fork that goes that low. He also manufactured these neat little
round fibreglass spacers to go in between the two where they meet so
they won't rub on one another and eventually break. Some of these old
guys are pretty crafty. I say he's old; he's really only ten years older
than me but that's old eh. I'm 61 years young.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Sent: February 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with
root rib
Ben,
A little trammeling advise if I may:
Be sure your compression struts are precisely the same length. I added
an additional comp strut at the outer terminals
Make your cables with a few threads showing when first drawn up
semitight.
Tram a little, tighten a little, tram again, tighten. When cables are
tight to your satisfaction, tune them. If you are non musical find a
friend or neighbor who plays guitar and ask their help
Corky
________________________________
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campo
s-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib |
Jack,
Let me revise what I said. As you can see from the photos my 3/32 sheeting on the
spar only extends about 1/2 above the strap. The vertical rib member only comes
down to the top edge of the plywood sheeting on the spar.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
Sent: 2/24/2008 12:57:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib
Jack:
I sheeted the 2 inboard ribs with 1/16 ply wood. I then cut and removed the lower
portion of the vertical 1/4 x 1/2 spruce member so that it only contacts the
spar where it is sheeted with the 3/32 ply. I then opened up the 1/16 ply sheeting
enough to allow for clearance on the lower 3/16" bolt.
I have completed my right wing and am actually attaching the inboard straps today.
I just took a couple of photos which I will attach
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, In
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
Sent: 2/24/2008 10:45:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib
Ive cut out the rib where it interferes with the strap and 3/32 ply. What is everyone
else doing about the bottom 3/16 bolt that interferes with the rib?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root rib |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Rick,
Thanks so much for the help and pictures!
Jack
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint
strap-intference with root rib
Jack:
I sheeted the 2 inboard ribs with 1/16 ply wood. I then cut and
removed the lower portion of the vertical 1/4 x 1/2 spruce member so
that it only contacts the spar where it is sheeted with the 3/32 ply. I
then opened up the 1/16 ply sheeting enough to allow for clearance on
the lower 3/16" bolt.
I have completed my right wing and am actually attaching the
inboard straps today. I just took a couple of photos which I will attach
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, In
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor <mailto:jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 2/24/2008 10:45:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint
strap-intference with root rib
I've cut out the rib where it interferes with the strap
and 3/32 ply. What is everyone else doing about the bottom 3/16" bolt
that interferes with the rib?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
< FONT>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank question |
Members:
Any suggestions on the set-up and hanging of the header tank in the piet? Is
most using two strap material, belting, or ?? If so, any photos of how you are
attaching the sides??
Just asking.......
Village idiot
Ken H
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dknoll(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Spar butt joint joint strap-intference with root |
rib
Could you forward the pictures please?
Would appreciate it very much.
Lynn Knoll
Wichita
Piet/Vair
dknoll(at)cox.net
---- "Jack T. Textor" wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Thanks so much for the help and pictures!
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint
> strap-intference with root rib
>
>
>
> Jack:
>
>
>
> I sheeted the 2 inboard ribs with 1/16 ply wood. I then cut and
> removed the lower portion of the vertical 1/4 x 1/2 spruce member so
> that it only contacts the spar where it is sheeted with the 3/32 ply. I
> then opened up the 1/16 ply sheeting enough to allow for clearance on
> the lower 3/16" bolt.
>
>
>
> I have completed my right wing and am actually attaching the
> inboard straps today. I just took a couple of photos which I will attach
>
>
>
> Rick Schreiber
>
> Valparaiso, In
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jack T. Textor <mailto:jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
>
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Sent: 2/24/2008 10:45:47 AM
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar butt joint joint
> strap-intference with root rib
>
>
>
> I've cut out the rib where it interferes with the strap
> and 3/32 ply. What is everyone else doing about the bottom 3/16" bolt
> that interferes with the rib?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jack
>
> www.textors.com
>
>
>
> < FONT>
>
>
--
Lynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
Amsafetyc wrote:
>
>
> I guess you have never had to clean a carburetor that was gunked up form old
fuel.
>
>
> From personal experience with my motorcycle I know that to be true!
>
> So what exactly are your disputing in my slightly exaggerated statement of
45 day no longer being gasoline?
>
> John
>
Yeah I have. I know over time there is separation, I didn't argue that. But also
intrusion of water in polyethylene containers, which is increased by the presence
of alcohol AFAIK, which is an issue dependent on storage conditions. That
also affects model engine fuels based on methanol, though most people use up
a poly gallon jug in short enough time not to have worries. Whatever bit of experience
I have comes from motorcycles and small engines too.
"my slightly exaggerated statement of 45 day no longer being gasoline?"
Ah I see, you were exaggerating a bit. Well, I thought 45 days was a little too
quick from my experience. If you meant to exaggerate then I missed that completely
(gesture of low flying jet over my head)!
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166021#166021
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Just thought I'd share a couple of shots of my day spent skiing today. Just when
I thought I had as much fun as I could have with the Piet I borrowed these
skis from Frank Pavliga. What a ball! I think I'm going to try to copy these
skis. When I get some measurements made up I could share them with others if
interested.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166044#166044
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_005_139.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_004_678.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_003_191.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_001_125.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | All points bulletin for Jim Markle |
I know ,I should know better, but some times one gets too engrossed in the
conversation to pay attention to details.
I had a visit from Jim Markel today he visited me at my shop where he gave
me the once over, we had great discussion about Piets, designs and
modifications build progress all the things that builders discuss having limited
time.
We went out had pizza and continued the discussion over beer the adult
beverage of builders he suckered my into paying for it, I fell for the old where
is the men'sIts room trick and still thought nothing of it.
We returned to my shop where we shook hands and he drove away, I went back
into my shop low and behold something just didn't look quite right. I wnet to
rip a piece of lumber and noticed I couldn't, my table saw was missing, gone
disappeared just gone. I know I locked the shop and I remember Jim asking a
bunch of questions about it, was it new? how much did I pay for it? How do you
collapse the legs to uses the pull around wheels and finally how much doe it
weigh? can one man move it easily? I paid no attention to his questions I
just thought he like the saw and was considering getting one like it. I didn't
not realize he was sizing it up because he wanted not one like mine, he wanted
my saw.
That rascal, I sure am glad my wife wasn't there she would be missing too
and I really liked that saw!
Had the pleasure of Jim's company this afternoon, I really enjoy meeting
with him over beer and pizza the ambassador and I have had several meeting over
beer and found we have a common piet interest and builders affinity, yup its
beer! No question about it.
Its always a pleasure to meet with Jim a gentlemen and good friend,
NOW where's my SAW?
I wish him safe travels and hope to see him again soon.
I WANT MY SAW BACK NOW!
John
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Looks like fun Don, did you have to do anything with your tailwheel?
Rick
On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Don Emch wrote:
>
> Just thought I'd share a couple of shots of my day spent skiing today.
> Just when I thought I had as much fun as I could have with the Piet I
> borrowed these skis from Frank Pavliga. What a ball! I think I'm going to
> try to copy these skis. When I get some measurements made up I could share
> them with others if interested.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166044#166044
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_005_139.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_004_678.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_003_191.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_001_125.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
ObjectAge Ltd.
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
No I just dragged it around. Next year I'll make a ski for it because the airstrips
get rough when they are all frozen up and the wheel doesn't glide over them
the way a ski does.
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166056#166056
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | "allthumbs" <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
It's out there poplar is acceptable, but don't take my word for it research
further, almost the same strength to weight as spruce and almost
undetectable less shock resistance, fungi and bacteria love it, I have read that
it is FAA approved. Where I can't remember. The thing I don't understand is
the growth rings the are broader that spruce, lot's
of houses built out it around here. And it's CHEAP good stuff .75 a board
foot.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166088#166088
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim E" <Ewang207(at)aol.com> |
Hey Don,
Those look terrific! I wondered if you had a chance to use those skis yet. I
actually thought you might have got up today. Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Way
too cool!
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166091#166091
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank question |
Ken asks-
>Any suggestions on the set-up and hanging of the header tank in the piet?
>Is most using two strap material, belting, or ?? If so, any photos of how
>you are attaching the sides??
The 16 gal. fuel tank in 41CC was fabricated with a curved top, sloped bottom,
and "shoulder lugs" to allow it to sit on the longerons when in place. Additionally,
it is supported by two felt-padded metal straps that pass underneath and
mount to cross-members fore and aft. One of these cross-members broke at one
of the 3/16" holes where the strap was bolted through the wood, when the airplane's
gear collapsed and it went over on its nose. When I replaced the cross-member
I thought about changing the metal support straps with something like
nylon tow strap because getting the metal straps to fit the tank right was taking
some fiddling around (nothing is perfectly square), but in the end I went
ahead and replaced everything just the way Corky had it and it's that way now.
Tow strap is intentionally made with some stretch to it and I didn't want
anything to get loose over time.
I think if I were building from scratch I might see about using some seat-belt
material or something similar for the tank supports. Also, there is a metal strap
passing over the top of the fuel tank than secures it in place.
I have some pictures and will try to upload them to a webpage for you.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com> |
Don,
Please do post details regarding the ski design. I bought an old pair of wood
water skis with the thought of making them into snow skis some day by stripping
the paint off, maybe adding a layer of fiberglass and making a mount similar
to what you show. I guess it should work. Do you notice any balance differences
between the skis and wheels? I've wondered about that....
Your Piet looks great on skies. Thank you for sharing. Have fun.
john e
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:54:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skiing
Just thought I'd share a couple of shots of my day spent skiing today. Just when
I thought I had as much fun as I could have with the Piet I borrowed these
skis from Frank Pavliga. What a ball! I think I'm going to try to copy these
skis. When I get some measurements made up I could share them with others if
interested.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166044#166044
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_005_139.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_004_678.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_003_191.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_001_125.jpg
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
Hi folks,
I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could scam
a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but the
basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl around.
Thanks!
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
The dimensions for the motor mounts were posted a few weeks ago. I was lucky enough
to have someone give me an old crankcase that as cracked, and I used that
to mock-up my cowling. Another benefit of EAA membership!
Ben
-------------- Original message from "MikeD" : --------------
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could
> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but
> the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
> etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl
> around.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The dimensions for the motor mounts were posted a few weeks ago. I was
lucky enough to have someone give me an old crankcase that as cracked, and I
used that to mock-up my cowling. Another benefit of EAA membership!
Ben
-------------- Original message from "MikeD" <mjdt@auracom.com>: --------------
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MikeD"
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could
> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but
> the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
> etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl
> around.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166133#166133
>
>
>
>
>
> <
=====
=======
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank question |
Thank You Oscar....
I will await your photos..
Ken
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
Ken asks-
>Any suggestions on the set-up and hanging of the header tank in the piet?
>Is most using two strap material, belting, or ?? If so, any photos of how
>you are attaching the sides??
The 16 gal. fuel tank in 41CC was fabricated with a curved top, sloped bottom,
and "shoulder lugs" to allow it to sit on the longerons when in place. Additionally,
it is supported by two felt-padded metal straps that pass underneath and
mount to cross-members fore and aft. One of these cross-members broke at one
of the 3/16" holes where the strap was bolted through the wood, when the airplane's
gear collapsed and it went over on its nose. When I replaced the cross-member
I thought about changing the metal support straps with something like nylon
tow strap because getting the metal straps to fit the tank right was taking
some fiddling around (nothing is perfectly square), but in the end I went ahead
and replaced everything just the way Corky had it and it's that way now.
Tow strap is intentionally made with some stretch to it and I didn't want anything
to get loose over time.
I think if I were building from scratch I might see about using some seat-belt
material or something similar for the tank supports. Also, there is a metal strap
passing over the top of the fuel tank than secures it in place.
I have some pictures and will try to upload them to a webpage for you.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> The dimensions for the motor mounts were posted a few weeks ago. I was lucky
enough to have someone give me an old crankcase that as cracked, and I used that
to mock-up my cowling. Another benefit of EAA membership!
> Ben
>
[Embarassed] Come to think of it, I don't recall searching THIS forum for motor
mount info. Shame on me. I'll see if I can find that.
Still, it would still be cool if I could save myself the work of measuring and
drawing the engine. I do want to have a drawing of it on hand.
Thanks..
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166158#166158
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVE CATES" <davecates(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Choice for Aircamper |
I recently bought an engine to use on my Piet. It is a Continental 0-200
GPU, is anyone else using one of these? I have all the typical
questions. With added power and weight should motor mount and or landing
gear be repositioned? Can I safely use one mag and the single plug (the
cylinders are drilled and taped for only one plug now).
or two mags and the single plug? What prop should I look for to run
efficiently and what kind of performance should I expect? Any help or
suggestions will be greatly appreciated. THANX Dave Cates
/ Walworth WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Sorry,
I didn't phrase that correctly. Thanks for catching my error, Clif.
What I meant was simply that the glue joints (if done correctly) will be as
strong or stronger than the wood. Of course, a chain is only as strong as
its weakest link, so the laminated spar will never be stronger than the wood
used to build it with.
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Sorry Bill, your mixing things up. The glue joint is only
stronger when you try to pull it apart or twist it. In which case
the wood will BREAK and splinter before the glue itself
will separate ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grover Summers <oldaeroplaneworks(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
Mike,
How about a C-90 in AutoCAD format?
Grover
MikeD wrote:
Hi folks,
I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I could scam
a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail, but the
basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub location
etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketch a cowl around.
Thanks!
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Grover Summers <oldaeroplaneworks(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
Mike,
I have an AutoCAD .dwg file for a C-90 engine. I'm not sure if the mounting lugs
are the same as the smaller engines. I tried to send the file to the group
but it bounced. Contact me off-line and I'll forward the file to you.
Grover
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Bill
I may be wrong about this, but I would disagree on that point as stated.
If a spar is built up of 3/4x3/34 laminations to a height of 4 1/4"
with staggered joints and grain which is alternated, the total beam will
be much stronger than the wood it is made of.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 4:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Sorry,
I didn't phrase that correctly. Thanks for catching my error, Clif.
What I meant was simply that the glue joints (if done correctly) will
be as strong or stronger than the wood. Of course, a chain is only as
strong as its weakest link, so the laminated spar will never be stronger
than the wood used to build it with.
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:55 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Sorry Bill, your mixing things up. The glue joint is only
stronger when you try to pull it apart or twist it. In which case
the wood will BREAK and splinter before the glue itself
will separate ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
While it is true that the strength of a laminated wooden structural
member is always limited by the strength of the wood itself, the
likelihood of having hidden defects is appreciably reduced when smaller
sections are glued together. Ergo, a laminated member can be stronger
than a one-piece solid one.
Also, select pieces can be placed at the top and bottom of a wing spar,
or beam, where the stress is greatest and lesser quality material can be
placed in between. My 1946 Taylorcraft had laminated spars and this is
exactly what they did in those days when so many lightplanes were being
built. In addition, there were beautifully-done scarf joints (without
doublers!) indicating the use of precision machinery.
I don't own that T'Craft anymore, but 62 years later it still has the
same spars with the factory splices. A testimonial to laminating and
perfect glue joints, to be sure.
On my Pietenpol I used Douglas Fir for the wing spars, duplicating the
original I - beam section by laminating 1/4 inch flange strips to a
full-depth web that is 1/2 inch thick. "Swallow tail" filler blocks were
used at fitting locations. There are no splices. Perhaps I could have
reduced the cross section size to take into account the greater strength
of DF (as compared to spruce) in order to save some weight, but I
didn't. Even so, my Piet is lighter than some at 630# dry empty weight.
BHP told me that he laminated the spars of the last airplanes he built.
I think he used Western Hemlock strips to make a rectangular cross
section. The only disadvantage of laminating, as I see it, is the extra
work involved.
Graham Hansen Pietenpol CF-AUN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="oldaeroplaneworks(at)yaho"]Mike,
I have an AutoCAD .dwg file for a C-90 engine. I'm not sure if the mounting lugs
are the same as the smaller engines. I tried to send the file to the group
but it bounced. Contact me off-line and I'll forward the file to you.
Grover
> [b]
Done! Thanks. Whether it matches or not, I would still like to have it available.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166242#166242
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice for Aircamper |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
[quote="davecates(at)charter.net"]I recently bought an engine to use on my Piet.
It is a Continental 0-200 GPU, is anyone else using one of these? I have all
the typical questions. With added power and weight should motor mount and or
landing gear be repositioned? Can I safely use one mag and the single plug
(the cylinders are drilled and taped for only one plug now).
or two mags and the single plug? What prop should I look for to run efficiently
and what kind of performance should I expect? Any help or suggestions will
be greatly appreciated. ? THANX Dave Cates / Walworth WI
> [b]
Considering how much the Piet loves cruising above 80-85mph (not much), I'd say
based on the props used on other somewhat similar aircraft that you'd be looking
in the 72x46-48 to 74x42-44 range, and personally I'd lean to the climb end
of those choices. But wait and see what the cats drags in on this one. It seems
there may be a few around with O-200's so someone's done some testing somewhere
along the line.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166243#166243
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
What I have done before is to IMAGE a .jpg into an AutoCAD drawing and either trace
over the image to create the line drawing off the image (after SCALEing it,
of course, and using DRAWORDER to place the image behind the working layer
so you can see the lines you're drawing), or just using the image itself to draw
up whatever you want to fit over it. There are 3-views of the small-block
Continentals in Tony Bingelis' books, for example, as well as (I believe) Evans'
"Light Plane Designer" or whatever his book is called. You can scan those
to create your .jpgs.
Most 3-views give dimensions between mounting points or other clear dimensions
to use to SCALE the image to correct size.
When I was fabricating the new stainless firewall for 41CC, I used this technique
with a head-on digital picture of the front of the fuselage. It worked perfectly,
but the builder (me) was too smart for my own good. I forgot to notch
the corners of the lower piece of the firewall like Corky had, in order to make
it removeable. It fit like a charm with slots to slip nicely over the engine
mount points, but it's now trapped in place by the engine mount bolts. Sigh.
You would think we would be making new mistakes, but it's always the same
old ones ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | "allthumbs" <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I worry about using epoxy on laminated wing spares, marine epoxy
can creep at higher temperatures, of course the wing will be painted a
light color to reflect the sun's rays. or the laminations could be tightly
clamped and some other glue used such as Gorilla glue, not near
as messy either. anyone have experience with epoxy that has a
higher temperature rating than marine epoxy such as Raka?
I think a very Strong spare would be two separate units of
birch plywood one with 90 degree grain, one normal, then cap striped with Douglas
fir
with an abundance of nails, this would be strongest and yet light
enough of any spar. The birch plywood would be scarfed spliced
at an angle having a splice two inches long in 1/8 ply this would be the
strongest in my opinion, note I haven't built a plane just planing on it.
Oh yes there would be insert pieces of wood at scarf points.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166249#166249
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
I just looked through my resource files and located the 3-views of the small Continentals.
One of the few times that Bingelis let me down... he doesn't have
3-views of the Continentals that we want. However, Evans does have a rudimentary
3-view with key dimensions in his "Lightplane Designer's Handbook".
I would be happy to scan that one to a .jpg and upload it to my website and will
do so in the morning when I get time. I trust that Mr. Evans will not mind
me putting it out on my site, particularly since I would encourage anyone to
purchase his fine manual... it is a close second to Bingelis' books in utility
and chock-full of useful information of every sort.
Being from the old school, I had much rather look at hand-drawn line illustrations
than all the CAD drawings in the world. Another reason why I so enjoyed purchasing
Bill Rewey's packet of tips and ideas that he publishes for sale; they
are all hand-drawn. They all make great armchair reading and thinking material.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
I really hate to beat this subject too far, but we have to be very careful
about re-engineering a spar too much. In using plywood, unintended stresses
can be created that can cause failure. The loading has to flow over the
entire beam. The solid and laminated spars along with some box beam spars
have been proven.
Resorsinol is the only glue approved for certified aircraft. T-88 has been
widely used for a long time. Gorilla glue has been discussed on the list a
few times although I'm not aware of anyone who has actually used it.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "allthumbs" <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 8:52 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives
>
> I worry about using epoxy on laminated wing spares, marine epoxy
> can creep at higher temperatures, of course the wing will be painted a
> light color to reflect the sun's rays. or the laminations could be tightly
> clamped and some other glue used such as Gorilla glue, not near
> as messy either. anyone have experience with epoxy that has a
> higher temperature rating than marine epoxy such as Raka?
> I think a very Strong spare would be two separate units of
> birch plywood one with 90 degree grain, one normal, then cap striped with
> Douglas fir
> with an abundance of nails, this would be strongest and yet light
> enough of any spar. The birch plywood would be scarfed spliced
> at an angle having a splice two inches long in 1/8 ply this would be the
> strongest in my opinion, note I haven't built a plane just planing on it.
> Oh yes there would be insert pieces of wood at scarf points.
>
> --------
> Russell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166249#166249
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
| From: | "allthumbs" <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
There is a test matrix which was published in an issue of experimenter magazine
a few years back on on a glue that is the same as Gorilla glue,
The results showed comparable with other high performance glues.
The spares that I am going to build are nothing new no new or re-engineering here
they were building them that way in WW-1, birch
ply box spares that is. Roger man also uses this on his stuff.
--------
Russell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166293#166293
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
Can this be converted into a graphic file like a jpeg? I don't use CAD
software, but am curious what this would look like.
Rob in Anchorage, AK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grover
Summers
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
Mike,
How about a C-90 in AutoCAD format?
Grover
MikeD wrote:
Hi folks,
I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I
could
scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great
detail,
but the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop
hub
location etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and
sketch
a cowl around.
Thanks!
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Dick Navratil wrote:
> Resorsinol is the only glue approved for certified aircraft. T-88 has
> been widely used for a long time. Gorilla glue has been discussed on
> the list a few times although I'm not aware of anyone who has actually
> used it.
In New Hampshire, we had a neighbor who used it in a HiMax. His choice
did not make me especially comfortable, but he had not fallen out of the
sky when we heard last. The plane was seven or eight years old when we
left that area.
There was yet another study of glues recently, and I really wish I could
remember where it appeared. It turned out that the polyurethane
glue--don't recall which one they tested--worked fine, but not when used
according to directions. They had to put it on both sides of the joint,
not just one, to get airworthy bonds. What most interested me, though,
was the glue that gave the best joints of all--not resorcinol or T-88,
but ordinary Titebond III. I'd love to know more about its durability
over time, in wings in desert heat, and so on. Given how many airplanes
flew for decades with casein glue and how often I intend to boil my
Piet, I suspect it would be just fine.
There is another gluing technique I'd love to see formally tested, in
the interest of construction speed, if not minimal cost. Several years
ago, one model airplane builder wrote of gluing models by coating both
sides of the bond with the thinnest grade of cyanoacrylate glue, which
really soaks into the wood, and putting thick cyanoacrylate between. His
experience was that the bonds hold for years, in all sorts of horrible
conditions. He had never seen one break; it's always the wood that goes
in a crash, even in areas that have been thoroughly soaked in fuel.
This leads me to wonder what kind of joint you would get by pre-treating
the wood with that very thin epoxy used to build up rotting boat and
construction members before gluing with T-88. In the interests of
marketing, we could make up a combination package with both glues and
call it "T-99." However, I strongly suspect that this is ridiculous
overkill.
Back to polyurethane glues. I would love to get some good test info on
the new Elmer's Nano that the Big Orange Box is carrying. Pending that,
here is the best information I have:
Vick and Okkonen, "Strength and Durability of One-Part Polyurethane
Adhesive Bonds to Wood," Forest Products Journal, 48(11/12), 1998, pp
71-6. "Abstract. One-part polyurethane wood adhesives comprise a new
class of general purpose consumer products. Manufacturers claims of
waterproof bonds brought many inquiries to the Forest Products
Laboratory (FPL) from users constructing aircraft, boats, lawn
furniture, and other laminated materials for outdoor use. Although FPL
has technical information on several types of polyurethane and
isocyanate-based adhesives for wood, no information was available on
this new class of adhesives. Four commercial polyurethane adhesives,
along with a resorcinol-formaldehyde adhesive to represent a standard of
performance, were subjected to a series of industry-accepted tests that
assess varying levels of bond strength and durability. In bonds to
yellow birch and Douglas-fir, the polyurethanes did not differ
significantly from each other in their performance; as a group, though,
their dry shear strengths showed that they were significantly stronger
than the resorcinol. Dry wood failures by the polyurethanes were high
and did not differ significantly from the resorcinol. After three
water-saturating procedures, wet shear strengths of polyurethanes and
the resorcinol were statistically comparable. Wet wood failures,
however, were very low among polyurethanes, which is a sharp contrast to
the high wood failure by the resorcinol. A moderately severe
delamination test indicated varying levels of water resistance among the
polyurethanes, but the resorcinol was completely resistant to
delamination. A very severe cyclic delamination test caused severe
delamination of polyurethane bonds. However, a recently discovered
hydroxymethylated resorcinol (HMR) coupling agent dramatically increased
delamination resistance of polyurethane adhesives. In a test of
resistance to deformation under static loads, polyurethane bonds
withstood extreme exposures of temperature and relative humidity for 60
days without deformation."
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Hey everybody,
Havn't written for a while, been busy with life.
If anyone out there is planning on using a Ford, and doesn't have one
yet, I am considering (at this stage) selling my beautiful Ron Kelly
built engine. It's running on a test stand, and has about 15 hours on
it. Check out his website to see all the good things he does, but it's
producing about 65 hp, has pulled over 2000rpm static with a 76/42 (I
think that's what it is) has two mags, increased oil capacity, insert
bearings, chevrolet pistons for strength and a weber carb, and a
beautiful st Croix prop. It's ready to mount and fly and will save
someone a TON of work.
I'm only considering it at this time because I am thinking about the
possibility of another engine, and if I go that route I won't need the
Ford.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ron Kelly Ford |
Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> If anyone out there is planning on using a Ford, and doesn't have one
> yet, I am considering (at this stage) selling my beautiful Ron Kelly
> built engine. It's running on a test stand, and has about 15 hours on
> it. Check out his website to see all the good things he does, but
> it's producing about 65 hp, has pulled over 2000rpm static with a
> 76/42 (I think that's what it is) has two mags, increased oil
> capacity, insert bearings, chevrolet pistons for strength and a weber
> carb, and a beautiful st Croix prop. It's ready to mount and fly and
> will save someone a TON of work.
>
> I'm only considering it at this time because I am thinking about the
> possibility of another engine, and if I go that route I won't need the
> Ford.
It would be very tempting. Please keep us advised. (Well, please keep me
advised. Don't tell them until we see whether I have any cash on hand
that week.)
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
Rob,
How about a PDF file?
I just took the Autocad file of the C90 Grover posted, and converted it to
PDF.
Unfortunately there weren't any dimensions on the Autocad drawing, so I'm
not sure what use this will be.
Anyway, here it is...
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Stapleton, Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:04 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
Can this be converted into a graphic file like a jpeg? I don't use CAD
software, but am curious what this would look like.
Rob in Anchorage, AK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
I believe that the study you are referring to was in one of the wood working
magazines. I believe it was Mark Langford that posted a copy of the article
or a link to it. I am up to my neck right now and can't look for it, but it
might be found on www.krnet.org.
Oscar, do you still have that email somewhere handy?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
Dick Navratil wrote:
> Resorsinol is the only glue approved for certified aircraft. T-88 has
> been widely used for a long time. Gorilla glue has been discussed on
> the list a few times although I'm not aware of anyone who has actually
> used it.
In New Hampshire, we had a neighbor who used it in a HiMax. His choice
did not make me especially comfortable, but he had not fallen out of the
sky when we heard last. The plane was seven or eight years old when we
left that area.
There was yet another study of glues recently, and I really wish I could
remember where it appeared. It turned out that the polyurethane
glue--don't recall which one they tested--worked fine, but not when used
according to directions. They had to put it on both sides of the joint,
not just one, to get airworthy bonds. What most interested me, though,
was the glue that gave the best joints of all--not resorcinol or T-88,
but ordinary Titebond III. I'd love to know more about its durability
over time, in wings in desert heat, and so on. Given how many airplanes
flew for decades with casein glue and how often I intend to boil my
Piet, I suspect it would be just fine.
There is another gluing technique I'd love to see formally tested, in
the interest of construction speed, if not minimal cost. Several years
ago, one model airplane builder wrote of gluing models by coating both
sides of the bond with the thinnest grade of cyanoacrylate glue, which
really soaks into the wood, and putting thick cyanoacrylate between. His
experience was that the bonds hold for years, in all sorts of horrible
conditions. He had never seen one break; it's always the wood that goes
in a crash, even in areas that have been thoroughly soaked in fuel.
This leads me to wonder what kind of joint you would get by pre-treating
the wood with that very thin epoxy used to build up rotting boat and
construction members before gluing with T-88. In the interests of
marketing, we could make up a combination package with both glues and
call it "T-99." However, I strongly suspect that this is ridiculous
overkill.
Back to polyurethane glues. I would love to get some good test info on
the new Elmer's Nano that the Big Orange Box is carrying. Pending that,
here is the best information I have:
Vick and Okkonen, "Strength and Durability of One-Part Polyurethane
Adhesive Bonds to Wood," Forest Products Journal, 48(11/12), 1998, pp
71-6. "Abstract. One-part polyurethane wood adhesives comprise a new
class of general purpose consumer products. Manufacturers claims of
waterproof bonds brought many inquiries to the Forest Products
Laboratory (FPL) from users constructing aircraft, boats, lawn
furniture, and other laminated materials for outdoor use. Although FPL
has technical information on several types of polyurethane and
isocyanate-based adhesives for wood, no information was available on
this new class of adhesives. Four commercial polyurethane adhesives,
along with a resorcinol-formaldehyde adhesive to represent a standard of
performance, were subjected to a series of industry-accepted tests that
assess varying levels of bond strength and durability. In bonds to
yellow birch and Douglas-fir, the polyurethanes did not differ
significantly from each other in their performance; as a group, though,
their dry shear strengths showed that they were significantly stronger
than the resorcinol. Dry wood failures by the polyurethanes were high
and did not differ significantly from the resorcinol. After three
water-saturating procedures, wet shear strengths of polyurethanes and
the resorcinol were statistically comparable. Wet wood failures,
however, were very low among polyurethanes, which is a sharp contrast to
the high wood failure by the resorcinol. A moderately severe
delamination test indicated varying levels of water resistance among the
polyurethanes, but the resorcinol was completely resistant to
delamination. A very severe cyclic delamination test caused severe
delamination of polyurethane bonds. However, a recently discovered
hydroxymethylated resorcinol (HMR) coupling agent dramatically increased
delamination resistance of polyurethane adhesives. In a test of
resistance to deformation under static loads, polyurethane bonds
withstood extreme exposures of temperature and relative humidity for 60
days without deformation."
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
I guess it was not as hard to find as I thought. I just searched glue in my
inbox and the email was still there. See the following. My personal
opinion is the T-88 works, is not expensive, and has been proven over a long
time.
-----Original Message-----
From: krnet-bounces(at)mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces(at)mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Mark Langford
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: KR> epoxy vs urethane glue
A while back we had a discussion on the urethane glues such as Gorilla Glue,
with some folks saying they thought it would make a good structural glue for
fuselalge construction. Ed Janssen sent me an article regarding that, and
it's posted at http://krnet.org/misc/glue/ . It's a very informative
article, even if it's not exactly spruce and plywood. Although T-88 came in
second to Titebond III, it was a very close second with 99% of the strength,
with polyurethane glue down at 58% of the strength.
It would be interesting to test Titebond against T-88 using our wood and our
kinds of joints...
Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL
mail: N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
website: www.N56ML.com
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Kraut [mailto:brian.kraut(at)engalt.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
I believe that the study you are referring to was in one of the wood working
magazines. I believe it was Mark Langford that posted a copy of the article
or a link to it. I am up to my neck right now and can't look for it, but it
might be found on www.krnet.org.
Oscar, do you still have that email somewhere handy?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Davies
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
Dick Navratil wrote:
> Resorsinol is the only glue approved for certified aircraft. T-88 has
> been widely used for a long time. Gorilla glue has been discussed on
> the list a few times although I'm not aware of anyone who has actually
> used it.
In New Hampshire, we had a neighbor who used it in a HiMax. His choice
did not make me especially comfortable, but he had not fallen out of the
sky when we heard last. The plane was seven or eight years old when we
left that area.
There was yet another study of glues recently, and I really wish I could
remember where it appeared. It turned out that the polyurethane
glue--don't recall which one they tested--worked fine, but not when used
according to directions. They had to put it on both sides of the joint,
not just one, to get airworthy bonds. What most interested me, though,
was the glue that gave the best joints of all--not resorcinol or T-88,
but ordinary Titebond III. I'd love to know more about its durability
over time, in wings in desert heat, and so on. Given how many airplanes
flew for decades with casein glue and how often I intend to boil my
Piet, I suspect it would be just fine.
There is another gluing technique I'd love to see formally tested, in
the interest of construction speed, if not minimal cost. Several years
ago, one model airplane builder wrote of gluing models by coating both
sides of the bond with the thinnest grade of cyanoacrylate glue, which
really soaks into the wood, and putting thick cyanoacrylate between. His
experience was that the bonds hold for years, in all sorts of horrible
conditions. He had never seen one break; it's always the wood that goes
in a crash, even in areas that have been thoroughly soaked in fuel.
This leads me to wonder what kind of joint you would get by pre-treating
the wood with that very thin epoxy used to build up rotting boat and
construction members before gluing with T-88. In the interests of
marketing, we could make up a combination package with both glues and
call it "T-99." However, I strongly suspect that this is ridiculous
overkill.
Back to polyurethane glues. I would love to get some good test info on
the new Elmer's Nano that the Big Orange Box is carrying. Pending that,
here is the best information I have:
Vick and Okkonen, "Strength and Durability of One-Part Polyurethane
Adhesive Bonds to Wood," Forest Products Journal, 48(11/12), 1998, pp
71-6. "Abstract. One-part polyurethane wood adhesives comprise a new
class of general purpose consumer products. Manufacturers claims of
waterproof bonds brought many inquiries to the Forest Products
Laboratory (FPL) from users constructing aircraft, boats, lawn
furniture, and other laminated materials for outdoor use. Although FPL
has technical information on several types of polyurethane and
isocyanate-based adhesives for wood, no information was available on
this new class of adhesives. Four commercial polyurethane adhesives,
along with a resorcinol-formaldehyde adhesive to represent a standard of
performance, were subjected to a series of industry-accepted tests that
assess varying levels of bond strength and durability. In bonds to
yellow birch and Douglas-fir, the polyurethanes did not differ
significantly from each other in their performance; as a group, though,
their dry shear strengths showed that they were significantly stronger
than the resorcinol. Dry wood failures by the polyurethanes were high
and did not differ significantly from the resorcinol. After three
water-saturating procedures, wet shear strengths of polyurethanes and
the resorcinol were statistically comparable. Wet wood failures,
however, were very low among polyurethanes, which is a sharp contrast to
the high wood failure by the resorcinol. A moderately severe
delamination test indicated varying levels of water resistance among the
polyurethanes, but the resorcinol was completely resistant to
delamination. A very severe cyclic delamination test caused severe
delamination of polyurethane bonds. However, a recently discovered
hydroxymethylated resorcinol (HMR) coupling agent dramatically increased
delamination resistance of polyurethane adhesives. In a test of
resistance to deformation under static loads, polyurethane bonds
withstood extreme exposures of temperature and relative humidity for 60
days without deformation."
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Brian Kraut wrote:
> I guess it was not as hard to find as I thought. I just searched glue in my
> inbox and the email was still there. See the following.
Many thanks. That's not the article I was thinking of, though it is
informative.
My interest in other glues grows from the thought of being able to go
into the local hardware/big-box store and pick up usable glue if the
special-order stuff is running out or somehow becomes unusable. This is,
in my view, not merely convenient; it's how life ought to be. I used to
love it that one could go into the nearest hardware store, pick up some
Weldwood resorcinol, and get to work. Now that no one carries
resorcinol, I would love to find some equivalent. I have seen T-88 in
stores only on rare occasions, and not yet where we now live.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Just happened to catch this....
You say that "I think a very strong spar would be two separate units of
birch plywood one with 90 degree grain, one normal, then cap stripped with Douglas
fir with an abundance of nails, this would be strongest and yet light
enough of any spar."
Remember that you derive no strength whatsoever from an abundance of nails. The
nails only provide clamping pressure. If nailing is the only possible way to
get that needed pressure, so be it. Otherwise be creative with clamping, and there's
no need for an abundance of nails.
Ryan
I worry about using epoxy on laminated wing spares, marine epoxy
can creep at higher temperatures, of course the wing will be painted a
light color to reflect the sun's rays. or the laminations could be tightly
clamped and some other glue used such as Gorilla glue, not near
as messy either. anyone have experience with epoxy that has a
higher temperature rating than marine epoxy such as Raka?
The birch plywood would be scarfed spliced
at an angle having a splice two inches long in 1/8 ply this would be the
strongest in my opinion, note I haven't built a plane just planing on it.
Oh yes there would be insert pieces of wood at scarf points.
--------
Russell
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol auction |
I have been talking to my EAA chapter about them buying my Sky Scout
project, finishing it, and auctioning it. It is very well built and has a
Chrysler 2.2 and a GN-1 wing. It will have an airworthiness certificate and
the 40 hours flown off before it goes.
I am trying to get an idea on how hard it would be to raffle this plane off
and would like to know how many people would probably buy a ticket. Could
you email me at brian(at)engalt.com if you would likely buy a ticket for it and
how many you would probably buy. Obvioulsy, your answer now does not commit
you to anything and I won't harass you later. I am just trying to get an
idea if this is feasible or not.
We would probably do 250 tickets at $50 each, or maybe 500 at $25 each and
would run it for probably six months or until all the tickets sold,
whichever came first. If we did not sell enough tickets to cover the cost
of the plane we would refund the tickets and just sell the plane. If you
would buy a $25 ticket, but not buy one at $50 let me know that also.
Thanks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
I understand the desire to want to be able to get what you need when you want it.
Been there, done that, living it. :P
However, choosing to use a glue other than what are the generally accepted norms
just because it's readily available at the local store, to me, is not the right
reason. Those who have completed a Piet would be the authority on this, but
I would imagine that of all the things that would slow you down and prevent
you from completing your aircraft sooner rather than later, availability of the
proper glue is pretty low on the list. If you are building so quickly that waiting
for UPS to bring your next shipment of glue is going to really put you
in a bind....fantastic! That's a good dilemma to have.
We will build until we use up the first supply we ordered, and before we start
to run out we'll order more. If we underestimate our usage or for some reason
have to wait for the glue before we can proceed, that's ok. I can find something
else to make progress on until it shows up.
Ryan
Brian Kraut wrote:
> I guess it was not as hard to find as I thought. I just searched glue in my
> inbox and the email was still there. See the following.
Many thanks. That's not the article I was thinking of, though it is
informative.
My interest in other glues grows from the thought of being able to go
into the local hardware/big-box store and pick up usable glue if the
special-order stuff is running out or somehow becomes unusable. This is,
in my view, not merely convenient; it's how life ought to be. I used to
love it that one could go into the nearest hardware store, pick up some
Weldwood resorcinol, and get to work. Now that no one carries
resorcinol, I would love to find some equivalent. I have seen T-88 in
stores only on rare occasions, and not yet where we now live.
Owen
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol auction |
Brian,
that
I would go for a 50 on that depending.
John
In a message dated 2/26/2008 1:44:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
brian.kraut(at)engalt.com writes:
I have been talking to my EAA chapter about them buying my Sky Scout
project, finishing it, and auctioning it. It is very well built and has a Chrysler
2.2 and a GN-1 wing. It will have an airworthiness certificate and the 40
hours flown off before it goes.
I am trying to get an idea on how hard it would be to raffle this plane off
and would like to know how many people would probably buy a ticket. Could
you email me at _brian(at)engalt.com_ (mailto:brian(at)engalt.com) if you would
likely buy a ticket for it and how many you would probably buy. Obvioulsy, your
answer now does not commit you to anything and I won't harass you later. I
am just trying to get an idea if this is feasible or not.
We would probably do 250 tickets at $50 each, or maybe 500 at $25 each and
would run it for probably six months or until all the tickets sold, whichever
came first. If we did not sell enough tickets to cover the cost of the plane
we would refund the tickets and just sell the plane. If you would buy a
$25 ticket, but not buy one at $50 let me know that also. Thanks.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank question |
OK; I put up a little webpage with a few pix of the fuel tank setup on 41CC. It's
at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/fueltank.html
And I was wrong about the tank having 'shoulders' on the sides to rest on the longerons.
What it actually has is a 'shoulder' on the aft side to rest on the
crossmember. Also provides additional fuel capacity. I have found (by experience;
don't ask me how) that of the 16 gallons total fuel capacity in the tank,
only 14 are usable. When that float rod touches the filler cap, I had better
be on the ground or I'm flying a glider ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank question |
Oscar,
Again...thanks for coming thru..Your photos gave me some insight as to how this
tank can be installed and secured from moving around!
Ken H.
PS...with all this cold weather and wind...I wish I was back in Houston again!
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
OK; I put up a little webpage with a few pix of the fuel tank setup on 41CC. It's
at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/fueltank.html
And I was wrong about the tank having 'shoulders' on the sides to rest on the longerons.
What it actually has is a 'shoulder' on the aft side to rest on the
crossmember. Also provides additional fuel capacity. I have found (by experience;
don't ask me how) that of the 16 gallons total fuel capacity in the tank,
only 14 are usable. When that float rod touches the filler cap, I had better be
on the ground or I'm flying a glider ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> I understand the desire to want to be able to get what you need when
> you want it. Been there, done that, living it. :P
>
> However, choosing to use a glue other than what are the generally
> accepted norms just because it's readily available at the local store,
> to me, is not the right reason.
Sounds like I didn't put the emphasis quite where it belonged.
My desire to use a locally available glue does not truly stem from
scheduling concerns. That was only a feeble attempt to justify in my own
mind what really amounts to being a low-grade crank.
The truth is that I wish to find a locally available glue that is fully
suitable for aircraft use because that is my idea of how life ought to
be. St. Bernie didn't order from Aircraft Spruce when he wanted to build
an airplane. He searched out materials he could buy locally and used
them. I would prefer to do the same.
Now, I recognize that this is no longer the late 1920s. Before there was
Windows, or DOS, or even CP/M, I was the first kid on my block to own a
computer. I have earned most of my living for the last 20 years
predicting will happen over the next decade or two--on rare occasions
longer--in subjects from technology to terrorism for major corporations,
industry and professional organizations, and the occasional government
agency. I'm darned good at accepting the present and looking forward
rather than back.
Yet my sense of what is right and fittin' calls for a Piet (or most
other non-plastic airplanes) to be built insofar as possible from
locally available materials using technologies a bright farm kid 80
years ago would have mastered in his teens. If that means ignoring "the
generally accepted norms," well, the first guy who used T-88 instead of
resorcinol seems to have gotten away with it. So watch out for falling
chips. But don't worry about falling airplanes. I meant that part about
"fully suitable for aircraft use" every bit as seriously as the rest of
this mini-manifesto.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing gear |
| From: | "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net> |
Winter is long here as well - thinking of a composite Piet....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166444#166444
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
I've scanned the dimensioned 3-view drawing of the small Continental engine from Evans' manual to a .jpg and it can be viewed here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/3view.jpg . If you want to snag it, just right-click on the image and 'save as'.
I once again recommend Evans' book as being well worth the money, and in fact if you purchase Volksplane plans from him, he will throw in the designer's manual for free. You can order here: http://www.evansair.com/handbook.htm
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Hi,
It's been quite a while since I posted anything to the list, largely
because my project is dormant while I search for a better job.
Anyway, I've used both Gorilla Glue and the Elmer's equivalent in a
number of (non-aircraft) applications over the years & I think it has
good potential for some aircraft applications if you use it
correctly. I did some bond tests several years ago & got wood
failure before glue failure every time if I used the following
procedures:
- Used a freshly-opened bottle of glue (no more than 2 weeks old).
This is very important, even in the bottle, these glues thicken
appreciably with age & I'm sure bonding strength is compromised.
-Spread a 'wetting' layer of glue on both surfaces & let it soak in
for about a minute (but not too long - foaming BAD)
- Used moderate clamping pressure to assure a tight joint, but not
enough pressure to starve the joint.
This procedure results in good joint & as I said, destructive testing
always resulted in wood failure, not the glue. Given all this, I
plan on using Gorilla glue on my Piet wherever I do not have to rely
on it as a structural agent, although I suspect I could. It does
great for laminations, and eliminates all the mixing & curing issues
that go with T-88 or resorcinol. And, unlike the Titebond glues, it
is waterproof when cured (I glued up a sandbox with it 5 years ago &
despite year-round exposure to the elements, the glue had not yet
failed as of last Fall - don't ask me t5o go check now, there's 6
inches of snow on the ground & more coming down).
As with anything else, all the usual disclaimers apply to the above
statements - I'm statisfied with how Gorilla glue works for me - your
mileage may vary.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:41 PM, Owen Davies wrote:
>
>
> Ryan Mueller wrote:
>> I understand the desire to want to be able to get what you need
>> when you want it. Been there, done that, living it. :P
>>
>> However, choosing to use a glue other than what are the generally
>> accepted norms just because it's readily available at the local
>> store, to me, is not the right reason.
> Sounds like I didn't put the emphasis quite where it belonged.
>
> My desire to use a locally available glue does not truly stem from
> scheduling concerns. That was only a feeble attempt to justify in
> my own mind what really amounts to being a low-grade crank.
>
> The truth is that I wish to find a locally available glue that is
> fully suitable for aircraft use because that is my idea of how life
> ought to be. St. Bernie didn't order from Aircraft Spruce when he
> wanted to build an airplane. He searched out materials he could buy
> locally and used them. I would prefer to do the same.
>
> Now, I recognize that this is no longer the late 1920s. Before
> there was Windows, or DOS, or even CP/M, I was the first kid on my
> block to own a computer. I have earned most of my living for the
> last 20 years predicting will happen over the next decade or two--
> on rare occasions longer--in subjects from technology to terrorism
> for major corporations, industry and professional organizations,
> and the occasional government agency. I'm darned good at accepting
> the present and looking forward rather than back.
>
> Yet my sense of what is right and fittin' calls for a Piet (or most
> other non-plastic airplanes) to be built insofar as possible from
> locally available materials using technologies a bright farm kid 80
> years ago would have mastered in his teens. If that means ignoring
> "the generally accepted norms," well, the first guy who used T-88
> instead of resorcinol seems to have gotten away with it. So watch
> out for falling chips. But don't worry about falling airplanes. I
> meant that part about "fully suitable for aircraft use" every bit
> as seriously as the rest of this mini-manifesto.
>
> Owen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Kip and Beth Gardner wrote:
> Anyway, I've used both Gorilla Glue and the Elmer's equivalent in a
> number of (non-aircraft) applications over the years & I think it has
> good potential for some aircraft applications if you use it
> correctly. I did some bond tests several years ago & got wood failure
> before glue failure every time if I used the following procedures: [etc.]
Many thanks for that. It's a big help. The question of clamping pressure
seems to be important with the polyurethanes, and I've never been clear
what is needed.
> And, unlike the Titebond glues, it is waterproof when cured ...
Actually, that's what interests me about Titebond III. It is supposed to
be waterproof, and in at least one test series it was reported to give
the strongest bonds on wet wood--stronger than T-88 or resorcinol. What
I don't know is how well it stands up over time under the conditions it
would see in an airplane.
Now if only I could remember where that test appeared.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
Carson, Has anyone called in your request? If not, let me know and I'll
make the call.
Gene in Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet building
>
> Hi
> Could one of you kind gentleman do me a favor and call and get me a copy
> sent out with a membership pack as well.It would be greatly appreciated.
> Address is
> Carson Vella
> 38 Bell Rd
> Glasshouse mountains
> Queensland 4518
> Australia
>
> Thanks in advance
> Carson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=165485#165485
>
>
> --
> 4:09 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Jim,
Nice to hear from you. I buzzed your house but didn't see anybody. I went over
to Salem and dropped in for some hot chocolate. It was cold!
Guys, Jim is a really great guy with a fantastic family who lives only about 2
miles from my house and only a few hundred yards off of the end of our airstrip!
I think I have successfully corrupted his son and him. So much so that they
have actually started a Piet project! Now all I have left to do is convince
them to make the trip to Brodhead. That oughtta finish 'em off!
John, no real difference with the skis. Flies pretty much the same, just a little
more fun!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166484#166484
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
A word of caution on the Titebond III is make sure it has never been frozen
or it will fail.
Smell the botle if it smells burned toss it and buy a new one.
It is temperature sensitive and will not cure in cold 45deg F environment.
Michael in cold snowy Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
>
> > And, unlike the Titebond glues, it is waterproof when cured ...
> Actually, that's what interests me about Titebond III. It is supposed to
> be waterproof, and in at least one test series it was reported to give
> the strongest bonds on wet wood--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi Gene
No I don't think anyone has. It would be great if you could
Thank you very much
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166489#166489
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
In New Zeland Wayne Willson's RW Storch is glued together with Polyurethane
glue.
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wilsonnz/Miscellaneous/notes1.jpg
more photos:
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wilsonnz/
here it is flying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSiTNQgj_N8&feature=related
this is the flavor he used:
http://www.excelglue.com/one.htm
Michael in Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Michael Silvius wrote:
> A word of caution on the Titebond III is make sure it has never been frozen
> or it will fail.
> Smell the botle if it smells burned toss it and buy a new one.
I have some testing to do before using it for anything, but this is
worth knowing! Many thanks.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Hi Owen,
Check your local Woodcraft store; they carry T88 although they do
price it a little higher. They also have Titebond III which I did use
for the plywood over the instrument panel, storage area behind pilot
and over the front cockpit instrument panel.
Its good glue.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol auction |
I would probably go for one of two at 25 but not for 50. Good luck, Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol auction |
I feel the same as Jim. More people are much more casual with $25 than
$50. I would probably go for 2 for $50 for my shot at winning a dream.
Everyone has their comfort zone and folks will probably spend the amount
they are comfortable with regardless of the number of tickets. Just lowers
the barrier to entry and more participate, which I would think would be your
goal.
Just my take on the situation.
On 2/26/08, jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
>
> I would probably go for one of two at 25 but not for 50. Good luck, Jim
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Like Jim says, Woodcraft has it. If you buy it from Aircraft Spruce, after
shipping the local cost ends up being about the same. If there is any
difference in price, in my book it's probably reinvested into piece of
mind. It was only $15.00 for the half pint size bottle set and I got 2
boxes a few days ago. I think AS&S got me for $25.00 for the pint bottles
plus probaby more than $5 for shipping. So, Woodcraft ends up being
cheaper. They have other stuff by System 3, but it;s not as strong as
T-88.
My best result with T-88 was gluing both pieces to be joined with a thin
layer of glue. There was about 15 minutes of time between the application
of glue and the actual joining of the pieces which also helps. I also score
the wood to be joined lightly with #60 grit in 2 directions and then vacuum
the dust. After observing several little stress tests, it was always the
wood that failed.
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
> Check your local Woodcraft store; they carry T88 although they do
> price it a little higher. They also have Titebond III which I did use
> for the plywood over the instrument panel, storage area behind pilot
> and over the front cockpit instrument panel.
I didn't know they had T-88. The nearest Woodcraft is close to 90 miles
away, but I can live with that. When you figure in shipping, it probably
balances out. OTOH, I can get Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, or the new
Elmer's Nano at the nearest Home Depot, which is about four miles from
here. Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
lines at the local supermarket!
Thanks,
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
>Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
>lines at the local supermarket!
Sure, but you're not building a diarama either. ...Plus you can pick up a
tablesaw blade, some router bits and things you didn't even know you wanted
once you get to Woodcraft.
On 2/26/08, Owen Davies wrote:
>
>
> jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
> > Check your local Woodcraft store; they carry T88 although they do
> > price it a little higher. They also have Titebond III which I did use
> > for the plywood over the instrument panel, storage area behind pilot
> > and over the front cockpit instrument panel.
> I didn't know they had T-88. The nearest Woodcraft is close to 90 miles
> away, but I can live with that. When you figure in shipping, it probably
> balances out. OTOH, I can get Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, or the new
> Elmer's Nano at the nearest Home Depot, which is about four miles from
> here. Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
> lines at the local supermarket!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Owen
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Following this materials thread a tad late. But gotta point out a couple
very important things to you folks that have decided the materials
selections normally used by homebuilders can use improvements: 1) epoxy
resins, especially made for homebuilt aircraft have a very long good record,
tried and test for over 40 years, 2) one of the absolutely most important
characteristics needed by a resin for homebuilts is- resistance to
thermoplastic creep. I worked quite a few years in the polyurethane and
epoxy industries, supplied Rutan and just about everyone else in the
composite homebuilt industry with polyurethanes and epoxies, sooooo can tell
you first hand, there ain't no such thing as a good polyurethane resin for
structural parts on an aircraft. Polyurethanes by their very chemical nature
are going to have more "rubbery or thermoplastic" type chemical bonds when
polymerized. One component polyurethanes that are cured by the ambient
moisture in the air or in the substrate ie. the H2O in the wood, are just
not going to be thermoset enough to not creep when under load.. Just the
wing's weight hanging out there 15' is going to make the resin want to creep
under this load, especially on a nice hot day. But this is a hobby for
folks with free will and afterall you get to be the test pilot. Just
remember one thing, as the spars sag with heat or slowly creep out of shape,
you were warned.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
>
> Kip and Beth Gardner wrote:
>> Anyway, I've used both Gorilla Glue and the Elmer's equivalent in a
>> number of (non-aircraft) applications over the years & I think it has
>> good potential for some aircraft applications if you use it correctly. I
>> did some bond tests several years ago & got wood failure before glue
>> failure every time if I used the following procedures: [etc.]
> Many thanks for that. It's a big help. The question of clamping pressure
> seems to be important with the polyurethanes, and I've never been clear
> what is needed.
>
>> And, unlike the Titebond glues, it is waterproof when cured ...
> Actually, that's what interests me about Titebond III. It is supposed to
> be waterproof, and in at least one test series it was reported to give the
> strongest bonds on wet wood--stronger than T-88 or resorcinol. What I
> don't know is how well it stands up over time under the conditions it
> would see in an airplane.
>
> Now if only I could remember where that test appeared.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Gordon Bowen wrote:
> 2) one of the absolutely most important characteristics needed by a
> resin for homebuilts is- resistance to thermoplastic creep. I worked
> quite a few years in the polyurethane and epoxy industries, supplied
> Rutan and just about everyone else in the composite homebuilt industry
> with polyurethanes and epoxies, sooooo can tell you first hand, there
> ain't no such thing as a good polyurethane resin for structural parts
> on an aircraft. Polyurethanes by their very chemical nature are going
> to have more "rubbery or thermoplastic" type chemical bonds when
> polymerized. One component polyurethanes that are cured by the
> ambient moisture in the air or in the substrate ie. the H2O in the
> wood, are just not going to be thermoset enough to not creep when
> under load....
My chemistry courses were reasonably many, but they also were a very
long time ago, and they told me essentially nothing about this kind of
chemistry. However, this makes sense to me. Have you any observations
about waterproof PVA glues such as Titebond III? A similar critique
would pretty much send me back to either T-88 or resorcinol, which I
liked better (though mixing it forcibly reminds me of black lung disease.)
Thanks.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Glenn Thomas wrote:
> ...Plus you can pick up a tablesaw blade, some router bits and things
> you didn't even know you wanted once you get to Woodcraft.
Bandsaw. Jointer. Planer. New wife once this one sees the bills....
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
Owen,
I never worked in the PVA industry. I've never studied the chemistry of
this type of curing or polymerization. So can't help you there. Did work
lots of years with amine curative for epoxies and urethanes, ain't dead yet.
You just have to use common sense when working with any chemical, including
household cleaners. As far as epoxies and their curatives, some people over
the years become sensitized to the amine. It's kinda like rubbing your skin
with bleach or ammonia or poison ivy leaves, your skin isn't going to like
it. As far as inhalation, the amines are going to react with the epoxy
pretty quickly starting the polymerization process, so you're not going to
have too much of an inhalation problem. Saf-t-poxy had some styrene monomer
in it, and smelled terrible. The styrene monomer was there to help bond
with the polystyrene blue foam wing cores, but not needed for any other
reason. Most of the systems sold by AirSpruce and Wicks don't have much of
a smell. If you smell ammonia coming from the amine curative, it because
it's adsorbing H2O from the air, shouldn't do this. The resin itself really
doesn't have much of a smell. Bottomline, I would never recommend anything
but a two part epoxy for anything structural on an airplane and I'd use only
a proven system with a long track record. If you have the spray up
equipment, and can stand the smell, a vinyl ester like Dow's Derakane is a
proven quasi-epoxy system ie. Lancair. But Derakane is really epoxy's first
chemical cousin.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
>
> Gordon Bowen wrote:
>> 2) one of the absolutely most important characteristics needed by a resin
>> for homebuilts is- resistance to thermoplastic creep. I worked quite a
>> few years in the polyurethane and epoxy industries, supplied Rutan and
>> just about everyone else in the composite homebuilt industry with
>> polyurethanes and epoxies, sooooo can tell you first hand, there ain't no
>> such thing as a good polyurethane resin for structural parts on an
>> aircraft. Polyurethanes by their very chemical nature are going to have
>> more "rubbery or thermoplastic" type chemical bonds when polymerized.
>> One component polyurethanes that are cured by the ambient moisture in the
>> air or in the substrate ie. the H2O in the wood, are just not going to be
>> thermoset enough to not creep when under load....
> My chemistry courses were reasonably many, but they also were a very long
> time ago, and they told me essentially nothing about this kind of
> chemistry. However, this makes sense to me. Have you any observations
> about waterproof PVA glues such as Titebond III? A similar critique would
> pretty much send me back to either T-88 or resorcinol, which I liked
> better (though mixing it forcibly reminds me of black lung disease.)
>
> Thanks.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Be aware that Gorilla glue expands when curing.I made the mistake of
using this stuff to put a rubber trim on my wing root covers.What a
mess.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn
Thomas
Sent: February 26, 2008 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
>Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
>lines at the local supermarket!
Sure, but you're not building a diarama either. ...Plus you can pick up
a tablesaw blade, some router bits and things you didn't even know you
wanted once you get to Woodcraft.
On 2/26/08, Owen Davies wrote:
jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
> Check your local Woodcraft store; they carry T88 although they do
> price it a little higher. They also have Titebond III which I did use
> for the plywood over the instrument panel, storage area behind pilot
> and over the front cockpit instrument panel.
I didn't know they had T-88. The nearest Woodcraft is close to 90 miles
away, but I can live with that. When you figure in shipping, it probably
balances out. OTOH, I can get Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, or the new
Elmer's Nano at the nearest Home Depot, which is about four miles from
here. Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
The glue test was published in the August 2007 (issue #192) Fine Woodworking
magazine.
The April 2005 (issue #176) also compared different types of glues.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Alternatives)
>
> Kip and Beth Gardner wrote:
>> Anyway, I've used both Gorilla Glue and the Elmer's equivalent in a
>> number of (non-aircraft) applications over the years & I think it has
>> good potential for some aircraft applications if you use it correctly. I
>> did some bond tests several years ago & got wood failure before glue
>> failure every time if I used the following procedures: [etc.]
> Many thanks for that. It's a big help. The question of clamping pressure
> seems to be important with the polyurethanes, and I've never been clear
> what is needed.
>
>> And, unlike the Titebond glues, it is waterproof when cured ...
> Actually, that's what interests me about Titebond III. It is supposed to
> be waterproof, and in at least one test series it was reported to give the
> strongest bonds on wet wood--stronger than T-88 or resorcinol. What I
> don't know is how well it stands up over time under the conditions it
> would see in an airplane.
>
> Now if only I could remember where that test appeared.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
This is the reason I'd only use it in situations where I could apply
light clamping pressure to prevent foaming within the joint. The
foamed glue has no structural strength whatsoever. To repeat, in my
experience, you can get good bonding IF you use fresh glue, (I've
found it actually makes sense to buy those little bottles unless I
have a really big project - you throw a lot less away), apply a
wetting layer to both surfaces, and apply light clamping pressure.
I guess the only other comment I'd make is that there is no magic
bullet when it comes to glues, each has it's good points and bad. As
designer-builders, we have to be sure we understand all the
parameters and then make a compromised choice (all choices are
compromises, somehow).
On Feb 27, 2008, at 7:08 AM, wrote:
> Be aware that Gorilla glue expands when curing.I made the mistake
> of using this stuff to put a rubber trim on my wing root
> covers.What a mess.
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
> Sent: February 26, 2008 10:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:
> Spruce Alternatives)
>
> >Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
> >lines at the local supermarket!
>
> Sure, but you're not building a diarama either. ...Plus you can
> pick up a tablesaw blade, some router bits and things you didn't
> even know you wanted once you get to Woodcraft.
>
>
> On 2/26/08, Owen Davies wrote:
>
>
> jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote:
> > Check your local Woodcraft store; they carry T88 although they do
> > price it a little higher. They also have Titebond III which I did
> use
> > for the plywood over the instrument panel, storage area behind pilot
> > and over the front cockpit instrument panel.
> I didn't know they had T-88. The nearest Woodcraft is close to 90
> miles
> away, but I can live with that. When you figure in shipping, it
> probably
> balances out. OTOH, I can get Titebond III, Gorilla Glue, or the new
> Elmer's Nano at the nearest Home Depot, which is about four miles from
> here. Teeny bottles of Gorilla Glue are even available on the checkout
>
> --
> Glenn Thomas
> Storrs, CT
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
taildrags(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> I've scanned the dimensioned 3-view drawing of the small Continental engine from Evans' manual to a .jpg and it can be viewed here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/3view.jpg . If you want to snag it, just right-click on the image and 'save as'.
Cool! Got it, thanks.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166533#166533
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
Carson,
Just spoke with Mary Jones of EAA and she assured me it would be on it's
way.
Enjoy
Gene in Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet building
>
> Hi Gene
> No I don't think anyone has. It would be great if you could
> Thank you very much
> Carson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166489#166489
>
>
> --
> 7:50 PM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
There are some interesting pages about glues at
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Adhesives/Adhesives.html#Types
and the links.
The author lists polyurethanes among the rubber adhesives but notes that
they could equally be considered thermosetting, like resorcinol and
epoxy. His description of polyurethanes reads: "Two component adhesives
which can be formulated for applications. Resistant to acids, oils, some
solvents and alkalis. Susceptible to moisture. Load bearing duties
viable. Flexible bonds suitable for shock and vibratory loading. High
strength joints." Elsewhere, he says polyurethanes are suitable for
applications involving vibration and shock, which sounds promising.
However, two component? How does this apply to the single-component
formulations we can find?
Also, I'm not sure how this meshes with Gordon's clearly knowledgeable
observations. It could be that they are both right: Polyurethane
adhesives are not nearly as good as epoxies, but they do not have to be
perfect in order to be good enough. Not sure I would want to trust that
guess, however.
With regard to PVA glues, there is conflicting information. According to
the source above, the PVA glues resist thermoplastic creep. However, he
says nothing about how the waterproof varieties compare with the
conventional white and yellow glues.
Unfortunately, the woodworkers who actually use white and yellow glues
say they are very susceptible to creep. It's a problem in curved
laminations, which are an exact parallel to our applications. However,
some of them report that they have cured the problem by going to
polyurethane glues!
In the pages above, the most interesting glues appear to be
rubber-modified epoxies. Fantastic strength and peel and sheer
resistance. No idea about cost or other limitations.
See also http://www.adhesivestoolkit.com/Introduction.xtp and
http://www.bondmaster.com/adhesives.asp.
At this point, resorcinol and T-88 are beginning to remind me of the old
line, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." This does not satisfy my
wish for agrarian self-reliance. And one of the sources, I think it was
Adhesives Toolkit, says that resorcinols have some problems with shock.
Owen,
square in the middle of a city with 140,000 people
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
A more accurate line for this discussion is that I don't know enough to know
that I don't know.
>At this point, resorcinol and T-88 are beginning to remind me of the old
>line, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." This does not satisfy my
>wish for agrarian self-reliance. And one of the sources, I think it was
>Adhesives Toolkit, says that resorcinols have some problems with shock.
>Owen,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol for sale |
Anyone looking for a Piet should check out the one that was put up
yesterday on Barnstormers.com. Could be a great buy, depending on
the plane itself.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:52 AM
Subject: Antennas
Wondering if anyone here has tried the "Air Whip" antenna put out by
Miracle antenna?
Gene
Down & out with the flu in Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
For what it's worth, from the archives, here's a link to the glue comparison
article:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31042
Personally, I have no problem with epoxy, and that's what I'm using. It's a
well proven adhesive that's easy to use, and not too difficult to obtain.
Some say it's messy, but I have no problems with it. However, there are
those that develop a sensitivity to epoxies, which would make their use
problematic. And resorcinol is a formaldehyde based adhesive. Formaldehyde
vapors are a known carcinogen (along with a gazillion other things, such as
wood dust). Having recently developed a nasty sensitivity to cyanoacrylates
(super glue), I can attest to the fact that it ain't no fun when you develop
a sudden difficulty to do things like breathing. The onset of my reaction
was sudden and unexpected. I don't go near the stuff anymore.
So, as a reminder, be sure to avoid getting adhesives on your skin, and
avoid breathing fumes from almost all adhesives. And look both ways before
crossing the street.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet building |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Thanks Gene
I look forward to reading it
Thank you very much
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166635#166635
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
I Hear a lot of talk about t-88 as the best glue. I known from experience
that t-88 can lay on the surface (birch and mahogany ply) and not penetrate. I
think it is important be sure the glue is worked in. Moving the joint to be
sure both sides are well wetted. Also a cold shop makes the glue thicker and
less likely to penetrate.
I have been very impressed with the strength of construction adhesives.
They don't bubble like other polyurathanes(reducing bonding area), are water
proof, don't get brittle (like white glue)and you can get them at the local
Home Depot.
All this is just talk. Glue up some test pieces,test to destruction, and
feel good about your choice!
Howdy
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
owen5819(at)comcast.net wrote:
> There are some interesting pages about glues at
> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Adhesives/Adhesives.html#Types
> and the links.
>
> The author lists polyurethanes among the rubber adhesives but notes that
> they could equally be considered thermosetting, like resorcinol and
> epoxy. His description of polyurethanes reads: "Two component adhesives
> which can be formulated for applications. Resistant to acids, oils, some
> solvents and alkalis. Susceptible to moisture. Load bearing duties
> viable. Flexible bonds suitable for shock and vibratory loading. High
> strength joints." Elsewhere, he says polyurethanes are suitable for
> applications involving vibration and shock, which sounds promising.
> However, two component? How does this apply to the single-component
> formulations we can find?
>
> Also, I'm not sure how this meshes with Gordon's clearly knowledgeable
> observations. It could be that they are both right: Polyurethane
> adhesives are not nearly as good as epoxies, but they do not have to be
> perfect in order to be good enough. Not sure I would want to trust that
> guess, however.
>
> In the pages above, the most interesting glues appear to be
> rubber-modified epoxies. Fantastic strength and peel and sheer
> resistance. No idea about cost or other limitations.
>
>
Two components polyurethane adhesives differ from one component not in the basic
chemistry and cure reaction, but more in the intended application.
Both use a polyurethane polyol (short for polymeric alcohol, containing functional
-OH groups) and an isocyanate curative (containing functional -NCO groups).
-OH's and -NCO's react to form a urethane bond between the two molecules. Ideally
they (they being the -OH and _NCO groups hanging off the polyol and curative
molecules respectively) are present in pretty much equal quantities for a
complete cure reaction to take place. As a sidenote to remember, isocyanates
love to react with water - HOH, right? - forming urea and CO2 gas in the process.
Water will consume isocyanate curative if present during cure.
Two-component systems (we're not talking two part foams here, those are not adhesives
though they do stick to things somewhat) are part A & B like epoxies, with
one side generally consisting of the polyol, plasticizer if used, structural
fillers including thixotroping agents if called for, and coupling/wetting agents.
The other generally consists of the curative and fillers, said fillers
adding to the overall percentage of structural filler as well as modifying the
viscosity of the curative side into a convenient system for the end user. (for
those that know adhesives yeah I know adducts etc. are used but they are based
on these materials so I tried not to confuse the issue). There are other thises
and thats added on either side to modify this or that property. They can
be modified to be very elastic and pliable when cured, or to be more firm but
still with some elastomeric properties which makes them very good at absorbing
mechical shock. They bond to a wide variety of substrates quite tenaciously,
and are often a good choice for bonding dissimilar materials esp. with differing
mechanical or thermal expansion properties for example (hello, bondline stress),
i.e. they might be used for a flexible bond between steel and plastic parts.
These systems are not designed to foam, they are designed to fill moderate gaps
with 100% adhesive. As non-foaming systems, the surface contact on each substrate
is nearly 100%, and the cross-section is ideally void-free so that the mechanical
properties of the system are fully realized.
Water is bad for these systems, it will eat up valuable curative resulting in a
softer, weaker cured material with voids, and the mechanical properties all suffer.
The one component systems we're talking about here are all gap filling (foaming)
formulations. The basic constituents are a polyol, a blocked isocyanate (one
that stays pretty much non-reactive until it encounters a particular environment
to trigger it), and a surfactant.
Before I mentioned how much isocyanates love reacting with water, so you may wonder
what role water plays in this scenario, as the instructions advise you that
there must be moisture present. There are two:
1. Water is the key that unlocks the isocyanate curative. In the formulation, the
isocyanate percentage is based on what the polyol requires to cure, plus how
much will typically be consumed reacting with water.
2. Remember the CO2 gas the reaction produces? It gets put to use as the blowing
agent for the foam, aided by the surfactants (think soap..).
So when the material encounters moisture, the reactions begin:
- isocyanate molecules change structure to free the previously hog-tied reactive
-NCO groups, then
- isocyanate reacts with water to form CO2 gas and urea compounds (which are not
significant in themselves). Due to the reactivity of water and -NCO, this reaction
occurs more rapidly than, but simultaneously with..
- the -OH + -NCO cure reaction.
and you end with with a cured foam.
You can imagine easily how the foaming adhesives would have much different properties
than the two-part adhesives. In the case of wood, the foamed adhesives
are often tough enough to meet the surface properties of the substrates, meaning
the bond is as tough as the wood. Often but not always depending on the wood.
But when you are bonding non-porous materials with more dense surfaces, to
achieve maximum strength the adhesive will depend on a near-100% fill rate, i.e.
no foamy bubbles to weaken it.
There are one-part systems now that exhibit reduced foaming, through modifications
of the original formulations, but using water-sensitive blocked isocyanates
means by nature there will always be some foaming. Dunno what other similar
systems adhesive formulaters are working on these days.
Hope this sheds light on a few things, just trying to be helpful.
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166658#166658
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
MikeD wrote:
> Two components polyurethane adhesives differ from one component not in the basic
chemistry and cure reaction, but more in the intended application. [etc.]
Thanks, Mike. It sounds like the two-component polyurethanes could be
interesting alternatives to epoxy if the price were reasonable. Probably
not something to go way out of the way for unless there were a special need.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Quinn" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another newbie looking for advise |
Hi Glenn,
The pictures are excellent and as I said in my last e-mail, were a big
help. One more question: What size wood did you cut the wedge from ? And
how long is it ? (Okay, 2 questions.)
Thanks,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Thomas
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise
Hi Jim,
Here's how I did my ribs.
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0
One of these days I'll push a piece of spar through them, and sand the
trailing and leading edges flush while they're all together like Rick
said.
Getting started is the hardest part. Welcome to the group.
On 2/17/08, quinn wrote:
It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and
past e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting
up my rib jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it
simply squared off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material,
size ? Does anyone have a picture and/or advise ?
Thanks,
Jim Q.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another newbie looking for advise |
Hi Jim,
When I ordered the capstrip material I also ordered a 4 foot lenth of 1/2" x
1/2" for the nose blocks and the trailing edge wedges. I read somewhere
that these wedges are very important. I ran out of 1/2" x 1/2" before I got
done with the ribs. If you are looking at ordering get 8 feet. I'm making
my tail feathers now and it also calls for 1/2" x 1/2" too as well as some
odd dimensions. The more you can get into 1 order means the less you'll pay
for shipping by the end of the project. A few months ago I just closed my
eyes while I submitted the order and bought a planer from Tyler tool and a
jointer from Woodcraft. I will be making all my wooden members from here
out using those 2 tools, my tablesaw and router table.
I almost forgot, the length of the wedge. I made them like this... the fat
end is 1/2" thick. I set a piece of this stock over the trailing edge and
drew the profile of the rib looking straight down on it to where it comes to
a point at the end. Then I cut the piece and was left with 2 wedges. Used
the belt sander to get it perfect. Each wedge is just about 2" long.
Where are you? I'm in the Northeast and there is a serious shortage of
Pietenpol builders out here. I just found another person in this wave of
new builders that showed up and I can't wait to meet him. I'm in CT and
he's in MA. I love to meet other builders because this project seems to
bring together a highly varied group with uncanny similar interests.
Feel free to ask as many questions as you want. If I can't answer I know a
few others who are fantastic builders that can. The Pietenpol forum is good
too but you end up with a lot of chatter sometimes that, in the end, leaves
you wondering. Once you get some parts built you will be on your way and
have a better sense of right and wrong. Right now the forum is a little
busy with an unusually large wave of builders and opinions.
Sorry. I turned your 1 sentence question into 4 paragraphs. Hope you have
fun with this project. There are a lot of great guys on the list that feel
the same way I do about sharing their experiences and can probably do it in
less words.
Good luck.
Glenn
On 2/27/08, Jim Quinn wrote:
>
> Hi Glenn,
>
> The pictures are excellent and as I said in my last e-mail, were a big
> help. One more question: What size wood did you cut the wedge from ? And how
> long is it ? (Okay, 2 questions.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Glenn Thomas
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise
>
>
> Hi Jim,
> Here's how I did my ribs.
>
> http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0
>
> One of these days I'll push a piece of spar through them, and sand the
> trailing and leading edges flush while they're all together like Rick said.
>
> Getting started is the hardest part. Welcome to the group.
>
>
> On 2/17/08, quinn wrote:
> >
> >
> > It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current and past
> > e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm setting up my rib
> > jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes. Is it simply squared
> > off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge material, size ? Does anyone
> > have a picture and/or advise ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jim Q.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Glenn Thomas
> > Storrs, CT
> > http://www.flyingwood.com
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
> >
> > *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
Rob,
I attached a .jpg screen shot of the drawing in autocad. Of course,
the nice thing about autocad is you can make very accurate
measurements on this drawing very easily, and draw your own parts to
see how they fit, then print to scale so you can actually make the
parts.
I'm pretty sure there are free programs out there that will let you
view autocad files so you could at least take measurements. There may
even be a free basic CAD program or two out there. I'm sure you could
buy a generic program for $100 or so, or maybe find a used version of
autocad to buy. A version that is 4-5 years old is worthless to a
company, but would still be very very useful for someone doing what we
are doing.
Steve Ruse
Quoting "Rob Stapleton, Jr." :
> Can this be converted into a graphic file like a jpeg? I don't use CAD
> software, but am curious what this would look like.
>
> Rob in Anchorage, AK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grover
> Summers
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 2:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
>
>
> Mike,
>
> How about a C-90 in AutoCAD format?
>
> Grover
>
> MikeD wrote:
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I cou
ld
> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail,
> but the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub
> location etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and sketc
h
> a cowl around.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
What would make it stronger?
Clif
Bill
I may be wrong about this, but I would disagree on that point as
stated. If a spar is built up of 3/4x3/34 laminations to a height of 4
1/4" with staggered joints and grain which is alternated, the total beam
will be much stronger than the wood it is made of.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <twilliams(at)mailmt.com> |
| Subject: | Power setting question. |
Hello,
I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It
has a Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a
lot of hp. for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500
rpm) on the take off roll this amount of power would be
excessive. Would a lower power setting, say around
2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Power setting question. |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
Maybe it's just the way I've been trained but I always put full throttle
on during take off. I was told it's a safety thing. Just in case
anything goes bad it's a good idea to be as high as you can get without
putting that nose too high and going into a stall which the ultralight
guys like to do. Keep a steady climb at a safe angle at top speed until
you are at a safe level to throttle back. That's my take on it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: February 28, 2008 6:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Hello,
I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It
has a Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a
lot of hp. for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500
rpm) on the take off roll this amount of power would be
excessive. Would a lower power setting, say around
2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives) |
I have both of the Fine Woodworking glue articles scanned as pdf files.
The files are approx 1.5 mb and 1 mb in size. I can e-mail a copy to anyone
who is interested.
Contact me off list.
Greg Cardinal
gcardinal(at)comcast.net
>
> There are some interesting pages about glues at
> http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Adhesives/Adhesives.html#Types and
> the links.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
Tim,
It won't be a problem. Pietenpols have flown with more than 100 hp.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <twilliams(at)mailmt.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
>
> Hello,
> I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It
> has a Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a
> lot of hp. for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500
> rpm) on the take off roll this amount of power would be
> excessive. Would a lower power setting, say around
> 2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
> appreciate any suggestions.
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
Tim wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It
> has a Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a
> lot of hp. for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500
> rpm) on the take off roll this amount of power would be excessive.
> Would a lower power setting, say around
> 2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
> appreciate any suggestions.
> Thanks,
> Tim
What are you worried abou?. You should be able to climb out at a
steeper angle, so airspeed shouldn't be a problem. I agree with the
other poster. Use full throttle until you get to cruising altitude,
then adjust the throttle back. I've read that it is better for the
engine to run it at stated cruise rpm, than choosing a lower setting
after you get to cruise altitude. The William Wynn corvair conversion
puts out around 100 hp and there are hundreds of Piets flying with
that. We have one on our field and it climbs out nicely on full throttle.
Ben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
Tim, don't worry about the extra power. Too much power is not a problem, however
too much airspeed (anything over 90mph or so) is a bad thing in a Piet. I
saw 2 piets at Brodhead last year with 0-200's and no worries. Ours is a 100
HP corvair, and it climbs out nice at full power, and gets a good 75mph cruise.
Wide open gets about 85-90mph. 85 is about as fast as is comfortable in our
piet. Use the engine and don't worry, the power will make it a "Bush Piet
- STOL".
My 2 cents
Shad
NX92GB
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
More power = better climb rate. Once at altitude throttle back to your desired
cruise.
In addition, here's some food for thought on the actual power output of an O-200...
http://www.flycorvair.com/thrust.html
(Oscar may have posted this recently. I can't find it, so here goes again.)
Ryan
Hello,
I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It
has a Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a
lot of hp. for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500
rpm) on the take off roll this amount of power would be
excessive. Would a lower power setting, say around
2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Tim
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Power setting question. |
| From: | <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca> |
My Piet cruises at 85- 90(2200 rpm);usually climbs out at 60 (2500
rpm)and top speed is about 95-97(2500 rpm on the flat).Uses 85 hp
Franklin.Uses a lot of gas.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: February 28, 2008 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Tim, don't worry about the extra power. Too much power is not a
problem, however too much airspeed (anything over 90mph or so) is a bad
thing in a Piet. I saw 2 piets at Brodhead last year with 0-200's and
no worries. Ours is a 100 HP corvair, and it climbs out nice at full
power, and gets a good 75mph cruise. Wide open gets about 85-90mph.
85 is about as fast as is comfortable in our piet. Use the engine and
don't worry, the power will make it a "Bush Piet - STOL".
My 2 cents
Shad
NX92GB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Don,
Very Cool!
I would like the measurements, when you get them.
Does the aft end on the skis dig in when you pull the plane backward into
the hangar at the end of the day?
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Date: 2/24/2008 10:04:52 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skiing
>
>
> Just thought I'd share a couple of shots of my day spent skiing today.
Just when I thought I had as much fun as I could have with the Piet I
borrowed these skis from Frank Pavliga. What a ball! I think I'm going to
try to copy these skis. When I get some measurements made up I could share
them with others if interested.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166044#166044
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_005_139.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_004_678.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_003_191.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/skiflyin_001_125.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
Tim,
nuttin' to worry about, just control airspeed with full power on take-off,
it'll climb like an elevator. I have 0-235 100+hp in my plane and find I
like it about 2050 rpm at cruise of 70 mph, this keeps my ears from flappin'
in the wind like a dog with his head out the window. Landing is set up
again with airspeed of 60 mph and 1300 rpm. If you haven't flown this plane
before, set your glide up at a little higher speed and do a few go arounds
if you have to to get the feel. It won't quit flying until there's nothing
showing on the airspeed indicator if it's like mine, but each plane has a
diff feel. Do a bunch of 2000 agl slow flying with lazy eights, that will
get you the feel before landing. For me slow flying was about 1900 rpm,
holding altitude.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <twilliams(at)mailmt.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
>
> Hello,
> I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It has a
> Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a lot of hp.
> for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500 rpm) on the take
> off roll this amount of power would be excessive. Would a lower power
> setting, say around
> 2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
> appreciate any suggestions.
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
Tim,
I'd like to add only one bit of info. On landing, just before touch down,
add about 50 rpm above idle for a smooth landing.
My 2 cents worth
Gene over the flu in Tennessee
>
>
> --
> Release Date: 2/25/2008 12:00 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
Hey thanks Steve. I have saved this to see what I can do with a cowling. I
plan on using the Corvair with the longer fuselage. But your suggestions are
good and I will search for a program, and then hit the list with a request
for a cad file of the corvair engine. I bet William Wynne will have one.
Regards,
Rob
Check out our EAA chapter website to get the news from the North.
www.eaa42.org, soon I will be putting up a website with Alaska Pientenpol
projects, so keep an eye out for it this month.
RS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:23 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
Rob,
I attached a .jpg screen shot of the drawing in autocad. Of course,
the nice thing about autocad is you can make very accurate
measurements on this drawing very easily, and draw your own parts to
see how they fit, then print to scale so you can actually make the
parts.
I'm pretty sure there are free programs out there that will let you
view autocad files so you could at least take measurements. There may
even be a free basic CAD program or two out there. I'm sure you could
buy a generic program for $100 or so, or maybe find a used version of
autocad to buy. A version that is 4-5 years old is worthless to a
company, but would still be very very useful for someone doing what we
are doing.
Steve Ruse
Quoting "Rob Stapleton, Jr." :
> Can this be converted into a graphic file like a jpeg? I don't use CAD
> software, but am curious what this would look like.
>
> Rob in Anchorage, AK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grover
> Summers
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 2:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
>
>
> Mike,
>
> How about a C-90 in AutoCAD format?
>
> Grover
>
> MikeD wrote:
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I
could
> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great detail,
> but the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop hub
> location etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and
sketch
> a cowl around.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair engine drawing file |
Rob;
When the time comes for you to start looking at your Corvair engine in AutoCAD
or other drawing program, ping me again. I think I may be able to help with some
CAD files or 3-views of the Corvair.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair engine drawing file |
Oscar,
Sounds good to me. Right now I am concentrating on building ribs 12 to go,
and then getting the fuselage up on the gear. I have the typical tail wheel,
and the gear is welded but I need to get wheels and tires brakes etc.
When this is done I will get an engine mount welded up and then I will be
ready for the engine drawings. So, please keep me in mind.
Regards from Alaska.
www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net is my current website, but soon I will also
have one for the Piet.
RS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine drawing file
Rob;
When the time comes for you to start looking at your Corvair engine in
AutoCAD or other drawing program, ping me again. I think I may be able to
help with some CAD files or 3-views of the Corvair.
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | New Plans Owner, Builder Soon |
| From: | "JohnC" <jcalvert(at)trinityvideo.net> |
Hello every one! I'm so happy I found you guys. I am a new Plans owner and a soon
to be builder. My plans arrived in the mail on Saturday and I have been studying
them quite intently. Many questions have come up in my studies and I am
sure you guys (and gals) will have the answers for me when I need them. I am
going to browse this board a bit more and try to make sure I don't ask too many
redundant questions. Thanks for having me!
John C.
Louisville Kentucky
P.S. I guess like most of the people here, this will begin my pursuit of a life
long Dream. I just hope that when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face
of God, I don't poke him in the eye on accident.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166800#166800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Continental engine drawing file |
Rob,
I can't remember where I got this from, but attached is a JPEG of an Autocad
drawing of the corvair engine, as well as the DWG file.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Power setting question. |
Harvey,
If you put 6 more revolutions on that rubber band it will improve gas milage
three fold! The Franklin uses a 3/4" fuel line doesn't it? I know now why you
were buying BP fuel stock....
Ken
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } My Piet cruises at 85-
90(2200 rpm);usually climbs out at 60 (2500 rpm)and top speed is about 95-97(2500
rpm on the flat).Uses 85 hp Franklin.Uses a lot of gas.
---------------------------------
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: February 28, 2008 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Tim, don't worry about the extra power. Too much power is not a problem, however
too much airspeed (anything over 90mph or so) is a bad thing in a Piet. I
saw 2 piets at Brodhead last year with 0-200's and no worries. Ours is a 100
HP corvair, and it climbs out nice at full power, and gets a good 75mph cruise.
Wide open gets about 85-90mph. 85 is about as fast as is comfortable in our
piet. Use the engine and don't worry, the power will make it a "Bush Piet
- STOL".
My 2 cents
Shad
NX92GB
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Power setting question. |
Tim,
I have 100hp (ish) on my Corvair powered Piet and it is always full power on
take off. As Harvey says, you can always pull it back a bit when safely on
your way.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2008 10:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Hello,
I purchased a Pietenpol a few years ago but have never flown it. It
has a Cont. 0-200/100 hp engine with a metal climb prop. This is a
lot of hp. for the plane. I would imagine that at full power (~2500
rpm) on the take off roll this amount of power would be
excessive. Would a lower power setting, say around
2200 rpm be better? There is 2600 ft of runway available. I would
appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks,
Tim
4:34 PM
4:34 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but would it help if I scanned
the dimentional drawing from the Continental manual?
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
>
>
> Hey thanks Steve. I have saved this to see what I can do with a cowling. I
> plan on using the Corvair with the longer fuselage. But your suggestions
> are
> good and I will search for a program, and then hit the list with a request
> for a cad file of the corvair engine. I bet William Wynne will have one.
> Regards,
> Rob
> Check out our EAA chapter website to get the news from the North.
> www.eaa42.org, soon I will be putting up a website with Alaska Pientenpol
> projects, so keep an eye out for it this month.
> RS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 5:23 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
>
> Rob,
>
> I attached a .jpg screen shot of the drawing in autocad. Of course,
> the nice thing about autocad is you can make very accurate
> measurements on this drawing very easily, and draw your own parts to
> see how they fit, then print to scale so you can actually make the
> parts.
>
> I'm pretty sure there are free programs out there that will let you
> view autocad files so you could at least take measurements. There may
> even be a free basic CAD program or two out there. I'm sure you could
> buy a generic program for $100 or so, or maybe find a used version of
> autocad to buy. A version that is 4-5 years old is worthless to a
> company, but would still be very very useful for someone doing what we
> are doing.
>
> Steve Ruse
>
>
> Quoting "Rob Stapleton, Jr." :
>
>> Can this be converted into a graphic file like a jpeg? I don't use CAD
>> software, but am curious what this would look like.
>>
>> Rob in Anchorage, AK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grover
>> Summers
>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 2:15 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> How about a C-90 in AutoCAD format?
>>
>> Grover
>>
>> MikeD wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I've hunted around but so far no luck. Does anyone know if and where I
> could
>> scam a CAD file for a Continental A-65 or A-75? I don't need great
>> detail,
>> but the basic views that will give me footprint, mounting points, prop
>> hub
>> location etc.. IOW what you would need to design an engine mount and
> sketch
>> a cowl around.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question. |
Don't remember any instructor I've flown with not asking for full power on
takeoff.
Still remember learning in the '60's, with my instructor Dick Plahn (WWII,
P51,P38,P39,P40, B25) Calling out from the right seat of a 172 "full
throttle, feet off the brakes"
More power just means you can yank that nose up really high.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Baker" <dick(at)aerovisiontech.com> |
| Subject: | Power setting question. |
Full power setting enriches the mixture to prevent detonation.
Dick Baker
www.aerovisiontech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt evans
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Power setting question.
Don't remember any instructor I've flown with not asking for full power on
takeoff.
Still remember learning in the '60's, with my instructor Dick Plahn (WWII,
P51,P38,P39,P40, B25) Calling out from the right seat of a 172 "full
throttle, feet off the brakes"
More power just means you can yank that nose up really high.
walt evans
NX140DL
4:34 PM
4:34 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wood nose cowl disc |
Hi Gang,
I am getting nearer to the finish line. I am currently building my cowlings.
I have a question for those guys that have used the Ford A engine. On the
last page of my Hoopman plans (3/20/34), it shows a pine disc to help form the
nose cowl to the engine cowl. It says "disc to join cowling and cone bolted
to engine while building cowling, remove bolts before attaching cone". Does
this pine disc stay with the airplane as an integral part, or does it get
discarded after the cowling is all formed and put together? I think it stays,
but
the more I think about it, maybe not. Please help.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood nose cowl disc |
No the pine disc is used just to fabricate the cowling from the fuse
forward to the prop. then the pine disc goes away, to the box of "old
airplane jigs" which only brings memories in the future years.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood nose cowl disc
Hi Gang,
I am getting nearer to the finish line. I am currently building my
cowlings. I have a question for those guys that have used the Ford A
engine. On the last page of my Hoopman plans (3/20/34), it shows a pine
disc to help form the nose cowl to the engine cowl. It says "disc to
join cowling and cone bolted to engine while building cowling, remove
bolts before attaching cone". Does this pine disc stay with the
airplane as an integral part, or does it get discarded after the cowling
is all formed and put together? I think it stays, but the more I think
about it, maybe not. Please help.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sending Ideas |
Fellow Pieter's.....
Or should I say Pieter fellows?...either way, here is some of the hardware and
results of building and testing for a new fuel sight gauge on my tank. Remember,
this is a test sample to see what works...this is a "professional" please
do not attempt to preform this at home or in your work shop! tee-hee-hee
I started with a bunch of items from the local hardware store. After creating
a vision, I narrowed it down to the aluminum driveway marker, copper water knocker,
a few copper reducers and two brass sleeves to provide a smooth inside
surface to work with.
I tested this in a bucket of water and found the small aluminum canister of Axe
works great but not strong enough for my liking. Therefore, I have created
another aluminum shaft with a 2oz can of WD-40 (not yet finished). After draining
the contents, drilling, and epoxy the aluminum shaft in place, this set up
works very nice. No binding and smooth shaft movement...
Anyone else experiment with tank gages other than the wire. With my eyesight,
The red cap is easily seen from a distance and the gauge hole is slightly off
center so I can see the gauge when a passenger is in the front cockpit. Once
I have tested this system further, I'll show a photo of the whole gauge in the
tank.
Thoughts or opinions? I have more photos if interested...
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
waltdak(at)verizon.net wrote:
> I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but would it help if I scanned
> the dimentional drawing from the Continental manual?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
> "No one ever learned anything by talking"
> Ben Franklin
> ---
Hi Walt,
If you mean would it help me (the thread starter) or one of the other folks in
here? If me, I have access to manuals, that's no prob, but thanks. My original
quest was to beg a copy of a CAD drawing of a small Continental, figuring someone
out these must have one somewhere. Mind you, I'm not sure how many Piet enthusiasts
also spend their time designing other aircraft on CAD. Kind of a niche
within a niche, cuts down on the likelihood a bit I guess!
Mike
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166835#166835
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sending Ideas |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Fellow Pieter's.....
>
> Or should I say Pieter fellows?...either way, here is some of the hardware
and results of building and testing for a new fuel sight gauge on my tank. Remember,
this is a test sample to see what works...this is a "professional" please
do not attempt to preform this at home or in your work shop! tee-hee-hee
>
> I started with a bunch of items from the local hardware store. After creating
a vision, I narrowed it down to the aluminum driveway marker, copper water
knocker, a few copper reducers and two brass sleeves to provide a smooth inside
surface to work with.
>
> I tested this in a bucket of water and found the small aluminum canister of
Axe works great but not strong enough for my liking. Therefore, I have created
another aluminum shaft with a 2oz can of WD-40 (not yet finished). After draining
the contents, drilling, and epoxy the aluminum shaft in place, this set
up works very nice. No binding and smooth shaft movement...
>
> Anyone else experiment with tank gages other than the wire. With my eyesight,
The red cap is easily seen from a distance and the gauge hole is slightly off
center so I can see the gauge when a passenger is in the front cockpit. Once
I have tested this system further, I'll show a photo of the whole gauge in the
tank.
>
> Thoughts or opinions? I have more photos if interested...
>
> Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
>
>
I can't figure out how you get the float into the tank.. [Question]
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166838#166838
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sending Ideas |
Hey Mike,
I insert the float with my hands into the tanks and then fish it up into the
opening. Then I screw the sight gauge into place. I will epoxy the red cap on
the top which prevents it from falling all the way into the tank. I have around
2.5 to 3.0 gallons left when empty.
Ken
MikeD wrote:
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Fellow Pieter's.....
>
> Or should I say Pieter fellows?...either way, here is some of the hardware and
results of building and testing for a new fuel sight gauge on my tank. Remember,
this is a test sample to see what works...this is a "professional" please
do not attempt to preform this at home or in your work shop! tee-hee-hee
>
> I started with a bunch of items from the local hardware store. After creating
a vision, I narrowed it down to the aluminum driveway marker, copper water knocker,
a few copper reducers and two brass sleeves to provide a smooth inside
surface to work with.
>
> I tested this in a bucket of water and found the small aluminum canister of Axe
works great but not strong enough for my liking. Therefore, I have created
another aluminum shaft with a 2oz can of WD-40 (not yet finished). After draining
the contents, drilling, and epoxy the aluminum shaft in place, this set up
works very nice. No binding and smooth shaft movement...
>
> Anyone else experiment with tank gages other than the wire. With my eyesight,
The red cap is easily seen from a distance and the gauge hole is slightly off
center so I can see the gauge when a passenger is in the front cockpit. Once
I have tested this system further, I'll show a photo of the whole gauge in the
tank.
>
> Thoughts or opinions? I have more photos if interested...
>
> Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
>
>
I can't figure out how you get the float into the tank.. [Question]
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166838#166838
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Skip,
I can drag it backwards fairly easily if it is on level snow. At first I was shoveling
snow into the hangar to move it in and out. Not a pretty sight to anybody
that might have been watching me shove on the thing! I thought it was a
good theory but it just doesn't glide across shoveled snow like it does across
nice level snow. Anyway I got a pair of furniture dollys and I set it up on
those while it's in the hangar now. Once again we have good snow on the ground
here, so I'm going to try to for a little skiing again this weekend! Maybe
find a snowmobile to chase!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166858#166858
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Cliff
Instead of having a one ply grain with only one orientation of the
grain, stacking plys with grain running in different directions would
add strength and limit the possibility of warping.. Same principal as
plywood vs regular board.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
What would make it stronger?
Clif
Bill
I may be wrong about this, but I would disagree on that point as
stated. If a spar is built up of 3/4x3/34 laminations to a height of 4
1/4" with staggered joints and grain which is alternated, the total beam
will be much stronger than the wood it is made of.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Quinn" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another newbie looking for advise |
Hi Glenn,
Once again, thank you!
I ordered the 1/2 x 1/2 with my capstrip order to do the nose piece; I
got 6', sounds like I'll be ordering more ! I was hoping that was what
you used as my jig in now finished and that was my last question, for
this week.
I live in Wisconsin, about an hour and a half from Brodhead and an hour
and 15 from Oshkosh. I know, so close to Mecca. The list has been
incredible, and the info you have given me is a great example. I have
found several builders in my area but have yet to meet any personally. I
hope to change that in the near future.
No need to apologize for the 4 paragraph answer. I think I'm doing 3
paragraphs to say thank you. I will make my first rib this week and it
is exciting to finally get underway. And thanks for the open invitation
to ask questions, I know I have many to come.
Thanks again Glenn, I'm sure we will meet this summer at either Brodhead
or Oshkosh. Also, I'll bet we will e-mail again soon !
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Thomas
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise
Hi Jim,
When I ordered the capstrip material I also ordered a 4 foot lenth of
1/2" x 1/2" for the nose blocks and the trailing edge wedges. I read
somewhere that these wedges are very important. I ran out of 1/2" x
1/2" before I got done with the ribs. If you are looking at ordering
get 8 feet. I'm making my tail feathers now and it also calls for 1/2"
x 1/2" too as well as some odd dimensions. The more you can get into 1
order means the less you'll pay for shipping by the end of the project.
A few months ago I just closed my eyes while I submitted the order and
bought a planer from Tyler tool and a jointer from Woodcraft. I will be
making all my wooden members from here out using those 2 tools, my
tablesaw and router table.
I almost forgot, the length of the wedge. I made them like this...
the fat end is 1/2" thick. I set a piece of this stock over the
trailing edge and drew the profile of the rib looking straight down on
it to where it comes to a point at the end. Then I cut the piece and
was left with 2 wedges. Used the belt sander to get it perfect. Each
wedge is just about 2" long.
Where are you? I'm in the Northeast and there is a serious shortage
of Pietenpol builders out here. I just found another person in this
wave of new builders that showed up and I can't wait to meet him. I'm
in CT and he's in MA. I love to meet other builders because this
project seems to bring together a highly varied group with uncanny
similar interests.
Feel free to ask as many questions as you want. If I can't answer I
know a few others who are fantastic builders that can. The Pietenpol
forum is good too but you end up with a lot of chatter sometimes that,
in the end, leaves you wondering. Once you get some parts built you
will be on your way and have a better sense of right and wrong. Right
now the forum is a little busy with an unusually large wave of builders
and opinions.
Sorry. I turned your 1 sentence question into 4 paragraphs. Hope you
have fun with this project. There are a lot of great guys on the list
that feel the same way I do about sharing their experiences and can
probably do it in less words.
Good luck.
Glenn
On 2/27/08, Jim Quinn wrote:
Hi Glenn,
The pictures are excellent and as I said in my last e-mail, were a
big help. One more question: What size wood did you cut the wedge from ?
And how long is it ? (Okay, 2 questions.)
Thanks,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn Thomas
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another newbie looking for advise
Hi Jim,
Here's how I did my ribs.
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0
One of these days I'll push a piece of spar through them, and sand
the trailing and leading edges flush while they're all together like
Rick said.
Getting started is the hardest part. Welcome to the group.
On 2/17/08, quinn wrote:
It must be newbie day. I just spent an hour going over current
and past e-mails, amazing. I do have my first question though. I'm
setting up my rib jig and am confused on how the trailing edge finishes.
Is it simply squared off with the capstrips ? What about the wedge
material, size ? Does anyone have a picture and/or advise ?
Thanks,
Jim Q.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164690#164690
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BScott116(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sending Ideas |
good project, but looks like you can only install the float when the gauge
is directly below the filler neck??So, can you epoxy the gauge fitting into
the tank bottom or is that a weld requirement?
In a message dated 2/28/2008 7:03:38 P.M. Central Standard Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
Hey Mike,
I insert the float with my hands into the tanks and then fish it up into the
opening. Then I screw the sight gauge into place. I will epoxy the red cap
on the top which prevents it from falling all the way into the tank. I have
around 2.5 to 3.0 gallons left when empty.
Ken
MikeD wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "MikeD"
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Fellow Pieter's.....
>
> Or should I say Pieter fellows?...either way, here is some of the hardware
and results of building and testing for a new fuel sight gauge on my tank.
Remember, this is a test sample to see what works...this is a "professional"
please do not attempt to preform this at home or in your work shop! tee-hee-hee
>
> I started with a bunch of items from the local hardware store. After
creating a vision, I narrowed it down to the aluminum driveway marker, copper
water knocker, a few copper reducers and two brass sleeves to provide a smooth
inside surface to work with.
>
> I tested this in a bucket of water and found the small aluminum canister
of Axe works great but not strong enough for my liking. Therefore, I have
created another aluminum shaft with a 2oz can of WD-40 (not yet finished). After
draining the contents, drilling, and epoxy the aluminum shaft in place, this
set up works very nice. No binding and smooth shaft movement...
>
> Anyone else experiment with tank gages other than the wire. With my
eyesight, The red cap is easily seen from a distance and the gauge hole is slightly
off center so I can see the gauge when a passenger is in the front cockpit.
Once I have tested this system further, I'll show a photo of the whole
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
____________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | New Plans Owner, Builder Soon |
Hi John,
Welcome! I know your feeling well, as I saw my first Pietenpol in 1972, got
out of flying for many years, bought a set of plans several years ago, and
am just now getting started.
I refuse to pay $1,000+ for spruce, when there are many very good
alternatives available, locally, to almost anyone. Last weekend I went on a
wood hunt and finally decided to go with poplar, and have found abundance,
though one needs to know what to look for, and be selective.
After just a few hours of milling wood, I almost have all the pieces cut for
the tail group, so I am barely getting started ahead of you. I have found
the archives incredibly helpful!
If you haven't done it already, check out www.westcoastpiet.com.
Happy building and I look forward to going through this dream with you!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
WW Conversion 90% done,
Making sawdust!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JohnC
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Plans Owner, Builder Soon
Hello every one! I'm so happy I found you guys. I am a new Plans owner and
a soon to be builder. My plans arrived in the mail on Saturday and I have
been studying them quite intently. Many questions have come up in my studies
and I am sure you guys (and gals) will have the answers for me when I need
them. I am going to browse this board a bit more and try to make sure I
don't ask too many redundant questions. Thanks for having me!
John C.
Louisville Kentucky
P.S. I guess like most of the people here, this will begin my pursuit of a
life long Dream. I just hope that when it's my turn to reach up and touch
the face of God, I don't poke him in the eye on accident.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166800#166800
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sending Ideas |
BScott:
Here is a photo of the tank fuel opening and the fuel sending unit flange. I
made it so that the sending unit flange is only a few inches away from the filler
neck. This way it is angled slightly out of the way of the front seat passenger
and in clear view off to my right side looking forward.
The fuel gauge is pipe threaded into the tank with locktite in case I have to
remove it for repairs! I will take a photo of the compete set-up tomorrow for
you to see.
Ken
BScott116(at)aol.com wrote:
good project, but looks like you can only install the float when the gauge
is directly below the filler neck??So, can you epoxy the gauge fitting into
the tank bottom or is that a weld requirement?
In a message dated 2/28/2008 7:03:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
writes:
Hey Mike,
I insert the float with my hands into the tanks and then fish it up into the
opening. Then I screw the sight gauge into place. I will epoxy the red cap on
the top which prevents it from falling all the way into the tank. I have around
2.5 to 3.0 gallons left when empty.
Ken
MikeD wrote:
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Fellow Pieter's.....
>
> Or should I say Pieter fellows?...either way, here is some of the hardware and
results of building and testing for a new fuel sight gauge on my tank. Remember,
this is a test sample to see what works...this is a "professional" please
do not attempt to preform this at home or in your work shop! tee-hee-hee
>
> I started with a bunch of items from the local hardware store. After creating
a vision, I narrowed it down to the aluminum driveway marker, copper water knocker,
a few copper reducers and two brass sleeves to provide a smooth inside
surface to work with.
>
> I tested this in a bucket of water and found the small aluminum canister of Axe
works great but not strong enough for my liking. Therefore, I have created
another aluminum shaft with a 2oz can of WD-40 (not yet finished). After draining
the contents, drilling, and epoxy the aluminum shaft in place, this set up
works very nice. No binding and smooth shaft movement...
>
> Anyone else experiment with tank gages other than the wire. With my eyesight,
The red cap is easily seen from a distance and the gauge hole is slightly off
center so I can see the gauge when a passenger is in the front cockpit. Once
I have tested this system further, I'll show a photo of the whole
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matron.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
---------------------------------
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Having the grain varied will help with warping but you're still
dealing with tension at one cap and compression at the other.
In wood compression strength is less than tensile so there
will be failure in compression first. This means that the
compressive strength of the wood is the deciding factor.
You can't make that stronger by laying plies in any direction.
In fact, if you make it like plywood, with the layers at 90=B0 or
even 45=B0, it WILL be weaker in the lengthwise direction.
And that is the primary direction the stresses line up with.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Navratil
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Cliff
Instead of having a one ply grain with only one orientation of the
grain, stacking plys with grain running in different directions would
add strength and limit the possibility of warping.. Same principal as
plywood vs regular board.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
What would make it stronger?
Clif
Bill
I may be wrong about this, but I would disagree on that point as
stated. If a spar is built up of 3/4x3/34 laminations to a height of 4
1/4" with staggered joints and grain which is alternated, the total beam
will be much stronger than the wood it is made of.
Dick N.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
2/28/2008 12:14 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <twilliams(at)mailmt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question.Power setting question. |
Gentlemen,
Thanks for the response. New to the board so please forgive any
'miss-steps'. I guess I didn't do a very good job in framing my
question. I was told that full throttle on the start of the take
roll would impart to much torque on the plane and probably cause
control problems. From what I've read so far full throttle right
from the start is the way to go. Thanks again for the advise, it's
always welcome. I'm sure I'll have a bunch of other questions.
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Another newbie looking for advise |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Jim,
Have you considered McCormick Lumber in Madison? I heard they got a new
load of rough sawn spruce in.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Spruce Alternatives |
Cliff,
I=92m not sure where you are going with this argument. AC43.13
specifically
states that =93=85solid spars may be replaced with laminated ones or
vice
versa=85=94
There is no mention of switching grain direction when doing laminations;
so
if one prefers to switch direction ' it=92s OK; if one prefers not to
switch
direction, it=92s OK, too.
There may be some validity to your argument, I don=92t know, but
apparently
the FAA isn=92t concerned, which should be good enough for any of us.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Having the grain varied will help with warping but you're still
dealing with tension at one cap and compression at the other.
In wood compression strength is less than tensile so there
will be failure in compression first. This means that the
compressive strength of the wood is the deciding factor.
You can't make that stronger by laying plies in any direction.
In fact, if you make it like plywood, with the layers at 90=B0 or
even 45=B0, it WILL be weaker in the lengthwise direction.
And that is the primary direction the stresses line up with.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick <mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Navratil
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
Cliff
Instead of having a one ply grain with only one orientation of the
grain,
stacking plys with grain running in different directions would add
strength
and limit the possibility of warping.. Same principal as plywood vs
regular
board.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson <mailto:CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce Alternatives
What would make it stronger?
Clif
Bill
I may be wrong about this, but I would disagree on that point as stated.
If
a spar is built up of 3/4x3/34 laminations to a height of 4 1/4" with
staggered joints and grain which is alternated, the total beam will be
much
stronger than the wood it is made of.
Dick N.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
Release Date: 2/28/2008 12:14 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine drawing file |
Rob,
After checking your site (looks great!) I would guess you took up where Mike
left off. Have they ever determined what caused the crash that killed Mike
and his student?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 2:49 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine drawing file
>
>
> Oscar,
> Sounds good to me. Right now I am concentrating on building ribs 12 to go,
> and then getting the fuselage up on the gear. I have the typical tail
> wheel,
> and the gear is welded but I need to get wheels and tires brakes etc.
> When this is done I will get an engine mount welded up and then I will be
> ready for the engine drawings. So, please keep me in mind.
> Regards from Alaska.
> www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net is my current website, but soon I will also
> have one for the Piet.
> RS
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
> Zuniga
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:39 AM
> To: Pietenpol List
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine drawing file
>
>
> Rob;
>
> When the time comes for you to start looking at your Corvair engine in
> AutoCAD or other drawing program, ping me again. I think I may be able to
> help with some CAD files or 3-views of the Corvair.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> --
> 12:00 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron Gustafson" <agustafson(at)chartermi.net> |
I made a set of slip-on tips for pulling my Kolb backwards. Just plywood and
sheet metal. Worked real good and no shoveling.
Aaron G.
>> I can drag it backwards fairly easily if it is on level snow. At first I
>> was shoveling snow into >>the hangar to move it in and out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power setting question.Power setting question. |
Tim,
Now that you've rephrased your question it makes more sense. The
throttle should be eased in slowly as you accelerate down the runway,
but at full throttle as you lift off, or before. I'm using a Stromberg
on my A-75 in the Baby Ace, and if you jam the throttle open rapidly the
engine stumbles a little before going to full RPM. Do you have any
tailwheel time? If not it would be a good idea to find someone to give
some dual instruction before your first flight.
Good luck!
Ben
Tim wrote:
>
> Gentlemen,
> Thanks for the response. New to the board so please forgive any
> 'miss-steps'. I guess I didn't do a very good job in framing my
> question. I was told that full throttle on the start of the take roll
> would impart to much torque on the plane and probably cause control
> problems. From what I've read so far full throttle right from the
> start is the way to go. Thanks again for the advise, it's always
> welcome. I'm sure I'll have a bunch of other questions.
> Tim
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Continental engine drawing file |
RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing fileFor those of us
running older versions of AutoCad, a .dxf file would be much more useful
than the .dwg created by the newer versions. .dxf is a quick and easy
export conversion.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Continental engine drawing file
Rob,
I can't remember where I got this from, but attached is a JPEG of an
Autocad drawing of the corvair engine, as well as the DWG file.
Bill C. <<...>> <<...>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spruce Alternatives |
Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Im not sure where you are going with this argument. AC43.13
> specifically states that solid spars may be replaced with laminated
> ones or vice versa
>
> There is no mention of switching grain direction when doing
> laminations; so if one prefers to switch direction its OK; if one
> prefers not to switch direction, its OK, too.
>
> There may be some validity to your argument, I dont know, but
> apparently the FAA isnt concerned, which should be good enough for
> any of us.
>
As you confess in your third sentence, you "don't know." To repair that
flaw, please find a copy of Bruce Hoadley's classic "Understanding
Wood." If you prefer not to pay for some cheap insurance, it should be
available in any good library.
Actually, it turns out that you don't even need to look at Hoadley. A
quick Google search turned up
http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/timber.html. It has a very decent
discussion of how to use wood in an airplane spar.
That page is part of a broader discussion of aircraft materials and
practices at http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/contents.html. It's
well worth a look, even for the experienced builders.
Use your wood in whatever grain orientation appeals to you. But put some
effort into understanding the issues involved in making that choice.
Sigh. I hate falling for this sort of thing, but there is always a
chance that it's not just a troll. The writer could be serious.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Welcome John,
Wanted to welcome a fellow Kentuckian, and say that you're welcome to
come visit my Piet (90% done) anytime you want and to talk all things
Piet anytime. I live south of Cincinatti, so I'm a bit over an hour
from you. Jim Kinsella also has a beautiful Piet stabled in Louisville
and I'm sure he'd love to show you his, and when the weather improves
would likely give you a ride.
Give me a call or drop me an email.
Douwe (Dow)
805 573 3564 cell
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Jim's number is 502 681 3415
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietsrneat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wood nose cowl disc |
Just an observation: In the 1933 Flying Manual and the cutaway of the Scout
(page 38), it shows the wooden disc as an integral part of the cowling. I'm
wondering why the Air Camper would be any different...
Ron
In a message dated 2/28/2008 6:48:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
waltdak(at)verizon.net writes:
No the pine disc is used just to fabricate the cowling from the fuse forward
to the prop. then the pine disc goes away, to the box of "old airplane
jigs" which only brings memories in the future years.
walt evans
NX140DL
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood nose cowl disc |
I used the wooded disc on the nosebowl of my A65 to center the prop
shaft to the fwd cowl piece. And , after removed it.
If this is not the case for the Model A, I take it back. But can't
imagine you'd be flying with a piece of wood in the fwd cowling.
Anyone know?
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood nose cowl disc
Just an observation: In the 1933 Flying Manual and the cutaway of the
Scout (page 38), it shows the wooden disc as an integral part of the
cowling. I'm wondering why the Air Camper would be any different...
Ron
In a message dated 2/28/2008 6:48:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
waltdak(at)verizon.net writes:
No the pine disc is used just to fabricate the cowling from the fuse
forward to the prop. then the pine disc goes away, to the box of "old
airplane jigs" which only brings memories in the future years.
walt evans
NX140DL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wood nose cowl disc |
Pics to go with my last post
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood nose cowl disc
Just an observation: In the 1933 Flying Manual and the cutaway of the
Scout (page 38), it shows the wooden disc as an integral part of the
cowling. I'm wondering why the Air Camper would be any different...
Ron
In a message dated 2/28/2008 6:48:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
waltdak(at)verizon.net writes:
No the pine disc is used just to fabricate the cowling from the fuse
forward to the prop. then the pine disc goes away, to the box of "old
airplane jigs" which only brings memories in the future years.
walt evans
NX140DL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
John,
I like the idea and would be glad to be on your list. Especially since anybody
visiting Northeast Ohio would soon find out there aren't too many other exciting
things about the area.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166982#166982
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wood nose cowl disc |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
As a rule, isn't the cowl supposed to be independent of the engine? This is because
the engine typically is subject to large vibrations - mostly at start-up.
I would not fasten the cowl to the engine. Just use the wooden disc to position
and build the cowl, then remove it when the cowling is done.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166992#166992
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
I'm all for that. It could be easily be added to the builder's directory on
my site which I am going to fix once and for all tonight or sometime this
weekend. Should I do it? All I have to do is add a check box (contact for
visits). I almost met Jim Markle when he was in Boston once. The
scheduling didn't work out but would have been fun.
I know what you mean by traveling, eating alone, working in the hotel, etc.
Good to break that chain with a Pietenpol meetup. ...which is likely the
way we're scattered pretty randomly.
On 2/29/08, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
> As many of you know from reading the posts of myself and our Ambassador
> Jim Markel, many of us have to travel for the unenviable goal of earning a
> living. For anyone engaged in such activities it is a known fact that there
> is no glamour, excitement or intense desire to live in a hotel room rather
> than work on our own builds.
>
> The more interesting alternative to dinner by ones self and an evening of
> work is to visit another builder chat and consume some type of appropriate
> beverage adult or not over a smack or even pitchers and pizza, as I have
> heard has been done on an occasion or 2.
>
> Thus I am proposing that those interested in opening up their hangars,
> garages, basements, shops or home for a Pietenpol visitor
>
> Place their name and contact information on a list as to allow an inbound
> visitor to make contact to discuss projects , methods and to share a few
> hours with a brother builder. Obviously the list is voluntary so anyone not
> interested need not participate anyone is welcome to participate in the
> sharing without obligation I or we just thought it would be good to have
> such a list the a weary traveler may use to make contact while in the area.
>
> I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions on how to
> accomplish that task.
>
> John Recine
>
> Lititz PA
>
> The consummate newbee builder,always something I can learn !
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
> Living.<http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
John and traveling builders:
If you ever stumble into Fargo, ND you are more than welcome at my place. I would
gladly entertain for the evening and end with a stop in my garage to see
the progress on my piet (no laughing or finger pointing). Either way, I'd be glad
to have you as a guest of Fargo, ND (notice all tools will be inventoried
before anyone leaves).
Ken H
Fargo, ND
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
As many of you know from reading the posts of myself and our Ambassador Jim
Markel, many of us have to travel for the unenviable goal of earning a living.
For anyone engaged in such activities it is a known fact that there is no
glamour, excitement or intense desire to live in a hotel room rather than work
on our own builds.
The more interesting alternative to dinner by ones self and an evening of work
is to visit another builder chat and consume some type of appropriate beverage
adult or not over a smack or even pitchers and pizza, as I have heard has been
done on an occasion or 2.
Thus I am proposing that those interested in opening up their hangars, garages,
basements, shops or home for a Pietenpol visitor
Place their name and contact information on a list as to allow an inbound visitor
to make contact to discuss projects , methods and to share a few hours with
a brother builder. Obviously the list is voluntary so anyone not interested
need not participate anyone is welcome to participate in the sharing without
obligation I or we just thought it would be good to have such a list the a weary
traveler may use to make contact while in the area.
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions on how to accomplish
that task.
John Recine
Lititz PA
The consummate newbee builder,always something I can learn !
---------------------------------
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return,
to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!"
-da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
I'm for that. Just tell me where the list is, and I'll join.
Love to share my building experiences.
Northern N.J.
walt evans
NX140DL
"No one ever learned anything by talking"
Ben Franklin
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: food for thought
As many of you know from reading the posts of myself and our
Ambassador Jim Markel, many of us have to travel for the unenviable goal
of earning a living. For anyone engaged in such activities it is a known
fact that there is no glamour, excitement or intense desire to live in a
hotel room rather than work on our own builds.
The more interesting alternative to dinner by ones self and an evening
of work is to visit another builder chat and consume some type of
appropriate beverage adult or not over a smack or even pitchers and
pizza, as I have heard has been done on an occasion or 2.
Thus I am proposing that those interested in opening up their hangars,
garages, basements, shops or home for a Pietenpol visitor
Place their name and contact information on a list as to allow an
inbound visitor to make contact to discuss projects , methods and to
share a few hours with a brother builder. Obviously the list is
voluntary so anyone not interested need not participate anyone is
welcome to participate in the sharing without obligation I or we just
thought it would be good to have such a list the a weary traveler may
use to make contact while in the area.
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and suggestions on how
to accomplish that task.
John Recine
Lititz PA
The consummate newbee builder,always something I can learn !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL
Living.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jimboyer(at)hughes.net" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
Hi John,
I would be happy to be part of that list of people to visit, projects to discuss
and being in the middle of Northern California's wine country might even be
able to come up with some good tasting grape juice, or other. Lots of food choices
near as well.
Jim Boyer, Pietenpol building in Santa Rosa, CA. 50 miles North of San Francisco.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: food for thought |
| From: | "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com> |
Smashing idea!
There are a handful of Piet owners in our neck of the woods, which is in the general
vicinity of Toronto, Ontario. While I and my Piet partner have yet to have
ours in our back yard (p/u in April) we do spend our spare time tinkering with
airplanes in a small museum of which we are working members:
www.classicaircraft.ca
If the weather's decent, you never know what could happen.
And there are other things to see and do aviation related oot and aboot this general
area. We'd be delighted to hang out with any Piet or non-Piet travellers
February 21, 2008 - February 29, 2008
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gm