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March 23, 2008 - April 04, 2008

This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promising myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noises. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: 1st rib
Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0 0030000000001> the video on AOL Home. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 3/22/2008 4:43 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Mar 23, 2008
Subject: 3' Center Section
Not that I know of, but I built mine with a 4' center section with vertica l cabanes. I did take off the amount of wing panels to get the same wingsp an. Flies fine. Larger center section gave a slight increase in fuel capacity. ~14gallons. Stevee From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 7:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in 2000 . Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and instal lation, ply covering, etc. This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promis ing myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noise s. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com<mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home<http://hom e.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0003000 0000001>. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ 3/22/2008 4:43 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 24, 2008
Gary, Bill Rewey's NX17WR has a three-foot center section. It flies (a lot). I don't know whether he shortened the outboard wing panels or not. Here's a link to a photo of his center-section: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/bhead050005.JPG Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Mine is a 3-piece wing with a 30" center section. I built the wings to the 3-piece plans, added 3" to each side of the centersection to increase fuel capacity. Also increased room for avionics. It requried modifying the cabane attach fittings. See attached photo. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:17 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in 2000. Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and installation, ply covering, etc. This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promising myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noises. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol hom00030000000001> . href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 3/22/2008 4:43 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 24, 2008
My Piet, NX20795, and Bill Rewey's Piet have 3 ft. center sections with total wing span of 30 ft. Bill has logged over 30,000 mi. over the last 18 yrs. Roman Bukolt On Mar 23, 2008, at 8:17 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Those who are increasing the center section to 3=92, are you > diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying > example of a 3 piece wing with a 3=92 center section? > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > WW Conversion 90% done, > Working on Tail Group (and ribs) > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers > in 2000. > Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft > center > section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and > installation, > ply covering, etc. > > This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep > promising > myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making > engine noises. :-) > > Clif > > "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." > ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful > experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish > sooner. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > 3/22/2008 4:43 PM > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: 3' Center Section
Jack, Are those small fuel tanks behind the rear spar? Thanks, Jeff >Mine is a 3-piece wing with a 30" center section. I built the wings >to the 3-piece plans, added 3" to each side of the centersection to >increase fuel capacity. Also increased room for avionics. It >requried modifying the cabane attach fittings. See attached photo. > > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Nope. Avionics. On the left is the transponder and blind encoder. On the right is the radio and intercom. The fuel tank (15 gallons) is between the spars. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:12 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Jack, Are those small fuel tanks behind the rear spar? Thanks, Jeff Mine is a 3-piece wing with a 30" center section. I built the wings to the 3-piece plans, added 3" to each side of the centersection to increase fuel capacity. Also increased room for avionics. It requried modifying the cabane attach fittings. See attached photo. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A New Person
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I'm not sure what to call you. Is your name Morrow? Or Lagowski? Or J.M.? Anyway, welcome to the list! As for flying speeds, my Pietenpol is powered by a 65 hp Continental with a Sensenich prop and I used the following speeds: Takeoff 45 mph indicted Best Rte of Climb 55 mph indicated Best Angle of Climb 50 mph indicated Best Glide Anything above stall speed - just doesn't matter Approach 55 mph indicated Stall Speed 35 mph indicated As for the glide, as long as it is not stalled you can glide anywhere from 45 to 65 mph and the glide path doesn't change much. A Pietenpol's glide characteristics are somewhere between those of a brick and a bowling ball. When you chop the throttle, toss out a brick and see where it is headed. That's where you will land. Once you are on the ground, duck to avoid getting hit by the brick. One caution I can give you - carry a little power in the approach, and hold it until just before touchdown. If you don't, when you begin to flair it will bleed off speed very rapidly and unless you time the flair perfectly, you'll find yourself a couple of feet off the ground with near zero airspeed. Then you will wish you had more shock absorbing than the fat tires of a Fly Baby landing gear. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lagowski Morrow Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A New Person Let me introduce myself, a new person on the list-Jim Lagowski. a Pietenpol builder in N.W. Michigan near Traverse City. I have been working on mine for almost 4 years and am now within 2-3 months of hearing engine noise. This is my 2nd plane, the first being an all-composite, 150mph, 2-place KIS which I sold in '06. My Piet. will use a 65hp Continental, hydraulic brakes, gas tank behind the firewall, 3 piece wing and at least initally a metal prop that came with the engine. This will help I think with weight and balance compared to a wood prop and Model A engine. We'll see. The color scheme is ivory with green trim, including scollops on the wings and vertical and horizontal stabilizers. landing gear is like the Fly Baby, with no springs or bungees. Just fat soft tires. My cabanes and landing gear Vees are laminated ash. I still have to cover the fuselage and then paint, and then reinstall the engine and make the engine cowlings. The tail pieces are done and painted and the wings will be finish painted this coming week My goal is to make Broadhead and Oshkosh this year. I would be interested in hearing from you flyers what your experience has been with speeds for planning purposes, such as cruise, stall, in the pattern, on final etc. It is time to start outlining my test program. Since I have a certified engine and prop I will only have to fly 25 hours before taking passengers and leaving the local area. Thanks for your help! _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3' Center Section
Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. Rick On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing > the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece > wing with a 3' center section? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, CA > WW Conversion 90% done, > Working on Tail Group (and ribs) > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Clif Dawson > *Sent:* Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > > That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in > 2000. > > Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center > > section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and > installation, > > ply covering, etc. > > > This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep > promising > > myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine > noises. :-) > > > Clif > > > "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord > Alfred Tennyson > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* HelsperSew(at)aol.com > > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > *Sent:* Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM > > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > > Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. > I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. > > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ------------------------------ > > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001> > . > > * * > > * * > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > ------------------------------ > > 3/22/2008 4:43 PM > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 24, 2008
So far I have come up with Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and Roman Bukolt. There may be more, but that's all I know of for now. The pro's seem to all be about increasing the center section tank size, primarily. Size range from 30", 36" and 48". Does anyone care to express any concerns or cautions? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. Rick On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in 2000. Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and installation, ply covering, etc. This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promising myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noises. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0 0030000000001> the video on AOL Home. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ 3/22/2008 4:43 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: chuck ganzer report
Date: Mar 24, 2008
Everybody, Just wanted to let those of you who were wondering that I just got a reply from Chuck and he's fine. He's been really busy at work and building a new hangar home on a little grass strip. I told him we missed him. D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: how to flare......Jack shows us how
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Jack touching down enroute to Brodhead and Oshkosh, 2005 at Columbia Station, Ohio. Squeak, squeak.....rolllllllllllllto a stop, turn around..... Nice. Very nice. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: how to flare......Jack shows us how
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then... I've never seen that picture, Mike. Didn't know you shot that one. Thanks, Jack Phillips NX899JP. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: how to flare......Jack shows us how Jack touching down enroute to Brodhead and Oshkosh, 2005 at Columbia Station, Ohio. Squeak, squeak.....rolllllllllllllto a stop, turn around..... Nice. Very nice. _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 3' Center Section
jimboyer(at)hughes.net wrote: > > The woodwork on your Piet is beautiful. I really like the fine way you > did the scallops on the turtle deck and also at the tail surface rib > attachment point. > > Great looking; too bad you can't just fly it with transparent mylar > covering. > Actually, he probably can. Aside from all the Lazairs that have flown that way--not too much slower than a Piet, in fact--someone was flying a DeHavilland Canuck covered in Mylar. Ought to work just fine on a Piet. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: 3' Center Section
Avionics? Encoder? Rado? Intercom? You speak in strange tongue, oh mighty Carolinian! :) Neat placement ideas. >Nope. Avionics. On the left is the transponder and blind encoder. >On the right is the radio and intercom. The fuel tank (15 gallons) >is between the spars. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff >Boatright >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:12 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > >Jack, > >Are those small fuel tanks behind the rear spar? > >Thanks, > >Jeff > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: A New Person
Date: Mar 24, 2008
Jack, many thanks for the speed info. I especially enjoued the gliding discussion! Where are you located? You can call me Jim. My wife is Debbie Morrow Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A New Person > > > I'm not sure what to call you. Is your name Morrow? Or Lagowski? Or > J.M.? > > Anyway, welcome to the list! > > As for flying speeds, my Pietenpol is powered by a 65 hp Continental > with a Sensenich prop and I used the following speeds: > > Takeoff 45 mph indicted > Best Rte of Climb 55 mph indicated > Best Angle of Climb 50 mph indicated > Best Glide Anything above stall speed - just > doesn't matter > Approach 55 mph indicated > Stall Speed 35 mph indicated > > As for the glide, as long as it is not stalled you can glide anywhere > from 45 to 65 mph and the glide path doesn't change much. A Pietenpol's > glide characteristics are somewhere between those of a brick and a > bowling ball. When you chop the throttle, toss out a brick and see > where it is headed. That's where you will land. Once you are on the > ground, duck to avoid getting hit by the brick. > > One caution I can give you - carry a little power in the approach, and > hold it until just before touchdown. If you don't, when you begin to > flair it will bleed off speed very rapidly and unless you time the flair > perfectly, you'll find yourself a couple of feet off the ground with > near zero airspeed. Then you will wish you had more shock absorbing > than the fat tires of a Fly Baby landing gear. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lagowski > Morrow > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:41 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A New Person > > > > Let me introduce myself, a new person on the list-Jim Lagowski. a > Pietenpol > builder in N.W. Michigan near Traverse City. I have been working on mine > for > almost 4 years and am now within 2-3 months of hearing engine noise. > This is > my 2nd plane, the first being an all-composite, 150mph, 2-place KIS > which I > sold in '06. > > My Piet. will use a 65hp Continental, hydraulic brakes, gas tank behind > the > firewall, 3 piece wing and at least initally a metal prop that came with > the > engine. This will help I think with weight and balance compared to a > wood > prop and Model A engine. We'll see. The color scheme is ivory with green > > trim, including scollops on the wings and vertical and horizontal > stabilizers. landing gear is like the Fly Baby, with no springs or > bungees. > Just fat soft tires. My cabanes and landing gear Vees are laminated ash. > I > still have to cover the fuselage and then paint, and then reinstall the > engine and make the engine cowlings. The tail pieces are done and > painted > and the wings will be finish painted this coming week > > My goal is to make Broadhead and Oshkosh this year. > > I would be interested in hearing from you flyers what your experience > has > been with speeds for planning purposes, such as cruise, stall, in the > pattern, on final etc. It is time to start outlining my test program. > Since > I have a certified engine and prop I will only have to fly 25 hours > before > taking passengers and leaving the local area. Thanks for your help! > > > _________________________________________________ > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - > Norsk - Portuguese > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 24, 2008
Me too. I have a 37" center section and I copied Jack's cut out for radios. I made my wings to plan. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section So far I have come up with Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and Roman Bukolt. There may be more, but that's all I know of for now. The pro's seem to all be about increasing the center section tank size, primarily. Size range from 30", 36" and 48". Does anyone care to express any concerns or cautions? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:45 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. Rick On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in 2000. Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and installation, ply covering, etc. This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promising myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noises. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 3/22/2008 4:43 PM http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet for sale - Barnstormers
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Mar 24, 2008
$5,000 w/o engine, 8 with Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172435#172435 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3' Center Section
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Just curious as to how that may impact the wing loading especially since it increases overall square footage of wing surface Has anyone done the calculations? Or is it an even tradeoff? John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:52:02 To: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Me too. I have a 37" center section and I copied Jack's cut out for radios. I made my wings to plan. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section So far I have come up with Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and Roman Bukolt. There may be more, but thats all I know of for now. The pros seem to all be about increasing the center section tank size, primarily. Size range from 30, 36 and 48. Does anyone care to express any concerns or cautions? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. Rick On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe > wrote: Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in 2000. Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and installation, ply covering, etc. This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promising myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noises. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ---------------- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home .href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/c ---------------- 3/22/2008 4:43 PMhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A New Person
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Hi Jim, I'm in Raleigh, NC. I keep the planes (Pietenpol and RV-4) at Cox Field in Apex, NC - about 8 miles south of RDU Int'l airport. I'm currently building an RV-10. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lagowski Morrow Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A New Person Jack, many thanks for the speed info. I especially enjoued the gliding discussion! Where are you located? You can call me Jim. My wife is Debbie Morrow Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A New Person > > > I'm not sure what to call you. Is your name Morrow? Or Lagowski? Or > J.M.? > > Anyway, welcome to the list! > > As for flying speeds, my Pietenpol is powered by a 65 hp Continental > with a Sensenich prop and I used the following speeds: > > Takeoff 45 mph indicted > Best Rte of Climb 55 mph indicated > Best Angle of Climb 50 mph indicated > Best Glide Anything above stall speed - just > doesn't matter > Approach 55 mph indicated > Stall Speed 35 mph indicated > > As for the glide, as long as it is not stalled you can glide anywhere > from 45 to 65 mph and the glide path doesn't change much. A Pietenpol's > glide characteristics are somewhere between those of a brick and a > bowling ball. When you chop the throttle, toss out a brick and see > where it is headed. That's where you will land. Once you are on the > ground, duck to avoid getting hit by the brick. > > One caution I can give you - carry a little power in the approach, and > hold it until just before touchdown. If you don't, when you begin to > flair it will bleed off speed very rapidly and unless you time the flair > perfectly, you'll find yourself a couple of feet off the ground with > near zero airspeed. Then you will wish you had more shock absorbing > than the fat tires of a Fly Baby landing gear. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lagowski > Morrow > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:41 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A New Person > > > > Let me introduce myself, a new person on the list-Jim Lagowski. a > Pietenpol > builder in N.W. Michigan near Traverse City. I have been working on mine > for > almost 4 years and am now within 2-3 months of hearing engine noise. > This is > my 2nd plane, the first being an all-composite, 150mph, 2-place KIS > which I > sold in '06. > > My Piet. will use a 65hp Continental, hydraulic brakes, gas tank behind > the > firewall, 3 piece wing and at least initally a metal prop that came with > the > engine. This will help I think with weight and balance compared to a > wood > prop and Model A engine. We'll see. The color scheme is ivory with green > > trim, including scollops on the wings and vertical and horizontal > stabilizers. landing gear is like the Fly Baby, with no springs or > bungees. > Just fat soft tires. My cabanes and landing gear Vees are laminated ash. > I > still have to cover the fuselage and then paint, and then reinstall the > engine and make the engine cowlings. The tail pieces are done and > painted > and the wings will be finish painted this coming week > > My goal is to make Broadhead and Oshkosh this year. > > I would be interested in hearing from you flyers what your experience > has > been with speeds for planning purposes, such as cruise, stall, in the > pattern, on final etc. It is time to start outlining my test program. > Since > I have a certified engine and prop I will only have to fly 25 hours > before > taking passengers and leaving the local area. Thanks for your help! > > > _________________________________________________ > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - > Norsk - Portuguese > > > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
The extra 6" of span my centersection added just about cancelled the area I lost by adding a circular cutout to the centersection. But I don't think a little more wing area could possibly hurt, and it certainly would help the climb rate. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Recine Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Just curious as to how that may impact the wing loading especially since it increases overall square footage of wing surface Has anyone done the calculations? Or is it an even tradeoff? John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:52:02 To: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Me too. I have a 37" center section and I copied Jack's cut out for radios. I made my wings to plan. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:58 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section So far I have come up with Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and Roman Bukolt. There may be more, but that's all I know of for now. The pro's seem to all be about increasing the center section tank size, primarily. Size range from 30", 36" and 48". Does anyone care to express any concerns or cautions? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. Rick On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe > wrote: Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing with a 3' center section? Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (and ribs) ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in 2000. Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and installation, ply covering, etc. This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep promising myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine noises. :-) Clif "So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord Alfred Tennyson ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ---------------- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home .href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/c ---------------- 3/22/2008 4:43 PMhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 3' Center Section
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > > I have a picture on my home computer of a Jenny covered in mylar.Neat > looking.I also seen a picture once of a plane that was covered in some > kind of covering but painted to make it look like the covering was > peeling back and you could see the inside of the wings and fuzy It > looked pretty weird at first.It looked as if it was peeling from > either speed or wear.The painting was air brushed on.I think it was a > P51.Really great stuff. > Did anyone here ever see Acme Duck & Airshow? It was a variation on the flying farmer routine. The pilot's character was an airshow wannabe from the stix. He flew a J-3 done up to look like it was covered in remnants from someone's sewing basket. Part-way through the act, in which the pilot kept interrupting in hope of being allowed to perform, the announcer had everyone in the crowd shout out what you need to make it in aerobatics: "Big bucks! Big bucks!" A few minutes later, evidence suggested that the pilot might have misunderstood. His wife, dressed as a magician's assistant, showed up with a delivery from the Acme Duck Company. Wonderful fun. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Hi Jack...I had thought about putting my radio in the centersection of my Piet a long time ago but decided that reaching up into the wind stream would make it difficult if not impossible to change stations etc. My Piet is not flying yet and I am still toying with the idea so I thought I would ask someone with first hand experience if it is a problem or not. Sooo...Is the wind a problem when adjusting your radio??? Will you be at Sun N Fun this year???...Ed Grentzer West coast Fl. >From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:19:10 -0400 > > > >The extra 6" of span my centersection added just about cancelled the area I >lost by adding a circular cutout to the centersection. But I don't think a >little more wing area could possibly hurt, and it certainly would help the >climb rate. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Recine >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:12 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > > > >Just curious as to how that may impact the wing loading especially since it >increases overall square footage of wing surface > >Has anyone done the calculations? > >Or is it an even tradeoff? > >John >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> > >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:52:02 >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > > >Me too. I have a 37" center section and I copied Jack's cut out for >radios. I made my wings to plan. >Dick N. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Gary > Boothe >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:58 AM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > > >So far I have come up with Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and Roman Bukolt. >There may be more, but that's all I know of for now. The pro's seem to all >be about increasing the center section tank size, primarily. Size range >from 30", 36" and 48". > >Does anyone care to express any concerns or cautions? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >WW Conversion 90% done, >Working on Tail Group > > >---------------- > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick >Holland >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:45 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > >Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. > >Rick > >On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe > wrote: > > >Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the >wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing >with a 3' center section? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >WW Conversion 90% done, >Working on Tail Group (and ribs) > > >---------------- > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Clif >Dawson >Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > >That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in >2000. > >Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center > >section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and >installation, > >ply covering, etc. > > >This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep >promising > >myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine >noises. :-) > > >Clif > > >"So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord >Alfred Tennyson > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > >Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. >I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. > > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > > >---------------- > >Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home ><http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001> >.href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >href="http://forums.matronics.com >">http://forums.matronics.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ">http://www.matronics.com/c ><http://www.matronics.com/c> > >---------------- > >3/22/2008 4:43 PMhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > >-- >Rick Holland > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please >notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - >Norsk - Portuguese > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 3' Center Section
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Hi Ed, The wind is not really a problem when changing frequencies on the radio. The intercom ($20 on ebay) does not work well in the slipstream, though. I need to replace it with an intercom made for a helicopter or an open cockpit airplane. I won't be at SNF this year, but will fly the Pietenpol to Brodhead again. Maybe next year for Lakeland. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:32 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section Hi Jack...I had thought about putting my radio in the centersection of my Piet a long time ago but decided that reaching up into the wind stream would make it difficult if not impossible to change stations etc. My Piet is not flying yet and I am still toying with the idea so I thought I would ask someone with first hand experience if it is a problem or not. Sooo...Is the wind a problem when adjusting your radio??? Will you be at Sun N Fun this year???...Ed Grentzer West coast Fl. >From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:19:10 -0400 > > > >The extra 6" of span my centersection added just about cancelled the area I >lost by adding a circular cutout to the centersection. But I don't think a >little more wing area could possibly hurt, and it certainly would help the >climb rate. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Recine >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:12 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > > > >Just curious as to how that may impact the wing loading especially since it >increases overall square footage of wing surface > >Has anyone done the calculations? > >Or is it an even tradeoff? > >John >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> > >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:52:02 >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > > >Me too. I have a 37" center section and I copied Jack's cut out for >radios. I made my wings to plan. >Dick N. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Gary > Boothe >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:58 AM >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > > >So far I have come up with Bill Rewey, Jack Phillips and Roman Bukolt. >There may be more, but that's all I know of for now. The pro's seem to all >be about increasing the center section tank size, primarily. Size range >from 30", 36" and 48". > >Does anyone care to express any concerns or cautions? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >WW Conversion 90% done, >Working on Tail Group > > >---------------- > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick >Holland >Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 8:45 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3' Center Section > >Bill Rewey's Piet has that setup and has been flying for at least a decade. > >Rick > >On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Gary Boothe > wrote: > > >Those who are increasing the center section to 3', are you diminishing the >wings by a like amount? Does anyone have a flying example of a 3 piece wing >with a 3' center section? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, CA >WW Conversion 90% done, >Working on Tail Group (and ribs) > > >---------------- > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Clif >Dawson >Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:10 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > >That's just about where I am, started and finished the tailfeathers in >2000. > >Now here it is, 2008 and 740 hours later. I'm working on my 3 ft center > >section now. It's mounted but will be off again for tank fitting and >installation, > >ply covering, etc. > > >This thing sure does look different with it sitting up there!.I keep >promising > >myself I'll take pictures but I seem to spend that time making engine >noises. :-) > > >Clif > > >"So many worlds, so much to do, so little done, such things to be." ~ Lord >Alfred Tennyson > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> > >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > >Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:59 AM > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1st rib > > >Congratulations Gary!! Now you are on your way to a wonderful experience. >I am 8 years and counting. Hopefully you will finish sooner. > > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > > >---------------- > >Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home ><http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001> >.href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >href="http://forums.matronics.com >">http://forums.matronics.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution> ">http://www.matronics.com/c ><http://www.matronics.com/c> > >---------------- > >3/22/2008 4:43 PMhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > >-- >Rick Holland > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please >notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - >Norsk - Portuguese > > _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Newbie gusset question
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 25, 2008
I must have misinterpreted the grain orientation for the wing rib gussets. Only after cutting out more than half of mine with horizontal outside grain, did I realize Bingelis recommends vertical orientation for rib gussets. I don't mind doing the right thing if it means ordering more 1/16 ply and redoing these, but wanted to see if others felt this was necessary. Any recommendations? Thanks. Steve C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172513#172513 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sury" <jimsury(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: Windshield thickness
Date: Mar 25, 2008
John go down to the local motorcycle shop and pick up a cracked motorcycle windshield. Cost is reasonable and it will work just fine. Cut it down to size and make the attach fittings. You can even get one that is tinted. Just watch where the crack is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Franklin" <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness > > I have "access" to a large sheet of either Plexiglass or Lexan, I don't > know which, but it is only 0.078" thick...I think most of the builders are > using 1/8", so is this stuff too thin to use for a windshield? > > John F. > GN-1 / Corvair > Richmond, TX > > > ________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Subject: Re: Newbie gusset question
Steve, I never considered the grain orientation on the rib gussets either, so I guess about 50% of mine are "wrong". I doubt very much if this is going to make a hill of beans difference in the long run, but then again I haven't flown behind it yet. I think I'll "chance" it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tail wire metal fittings
The plans show the tail wire fittings riveted to the tail with 3/16" rivets and thus end up under the fabric with the tabs sticking through. I see that most people seem to bolt them on top of the tail after fabric covering. Is there anything wrong with, or any problems that could occur if i use 3/16" AD rivets to rivet these fittings to the tail as in the plans? Why does everyone just bolt them on? Is it just easier or is there a safety issue? --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Newbie gusset question
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I wouldn't worry about it. Grain runs different directions in each layer of the plywood. Of far more importance is to lightly sand birch plywood before gluing to remove the satin sheen on the surface. That smooth surface is not a good surface for glue to bond with. Scuff it up slightly before gluing. Jack Phillips Who couldn't tell you what direction the grain runs in my gussets. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143 Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 10:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie gusset question I must have misinterpreted the grain orientation for the wing rib gussets. Only after cutting out more than half of mine with horizontal outside grain, did I realize Bingelis recommends vertical orientation for rib gussets. I don't mind doing the right thing if it means ordering more 1/16 ply and redoing these, but wanted to see if others felt this was necessary. Any recommendations? Thanks. Steve C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172513#172513 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tail wire metal fittings
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I don't think riveting them on is a good idea. I must confess, I don't remember the plans showing them riveted but I wouldn't even consider doing it that way. Rivets don't work well under tension and they swell when driven. This swelling would tend to split the wood underneath, where you can't see it. I think bolts are definitely the way to go. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings The plans show the tail wire fittings riveted to the tail with 3/16" rivets and thus end up under the fabric with the tabs sticking through. I see that most people seem to bolt them on top of the tail after fabric covering. Is there anything wrong with, or any problems that could occur if i use 3/16" AD rivets to rivet these fittings to the tail as in the plans? Why does everyone just bolt them on? Is it just easier or is there a safety issue? _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tail wire metal fittings
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Also as a foot note to that.Rivets tend to come loose with vibration.Now this area may not take too much vibration but over time it could still become a factor.I had a lot of rivets in my Lazair ultralight and they would come loose in the weirdest plases.Places you wouldn't expect that to happen.Just my two cents worth. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: March 25, 2008 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings I don't think riveting them on is a good idea. I must confess, I don't remember the plans showing them riveted but I wouldn't even consider doing it that way. Rivets don't work well under tension and they swell when driven. This swelling would tend to split the wood underneath, where you can't see it. I think bolts are definitely the way to go. Jack Phillips NX899JP ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings The plans show the tail wire fittings riveted to the tail with 3/16" rivets and thus end up under the fabric with the tabs sticking through. I see that most people seem to bolt them on top of the tail after fabric covering. Is there anything wrong with, or any problems that could occur if i use 3/16" AD rivets to rivet these fittings to the tail as in the plans? Why does everyone just bolt them on? Is it just easier or is there a safety issue? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: solid wire vs cables
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
In the plans, the bracing wires for the empennage and for the drag and anti-drag wires are shown as solid wire, or as described in the plans, "hard wire". I realize that this was a common method in the old days, and now almost everyone uses aircraft cable with nicopress fittings. But using the hard wire results in a nice clean look, as seen on Ken Perkins' award winner N34KP. Plus, it's authentic Pietenpol. I ran across a photo and description on Mykitplane.com (Terry Bowden's photos) that said the wires were formed using a jig that was described in an old copy of the BPA newsletter. I'm curious as to what such a jig might look like. So, here's my question: Anyone out there have a copy of the old newsletter that described the jig? Or sketches or photos of such a jig? Bill C. <http://www.ultraflightradio.com/byname/wynne-william.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Tail wire metal fittings
Sounds good. I'll bolt them on. With them on top of the fabric it's also easier to inspect them. I was leaning towards bolting but I thought I'd throw it out since it's how the plans say to do it. harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Also as a foot note to that.Rivets tend to come loose with vibration.Now this area may not take too much vibration but over time it could still become a factor.I had a lot of rivets in my Lazair ultralight and they would come loose in the weirdest plases.Places you wouldnt expect that to happen.Just my two cents worth. --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: March 25, 2008 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings I dont think riveting them on is a good idea. I must confess, I dont remember the plans showing them riveted but I wouldnt even consider doing it that way. Rivets dont work well under tension and they swell when driven. This swelling would tend to split the wood underneath, where you cant see it. I think bolts are definitely the way to go. Jack Phillips NX899JP --------------------------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings The plans show the tail wire fittings riveted to the tail with 3/16" rivets and thus end up under the fabric with the tabs sticking through. I see that most people seem to bolt them on top of the tail after fabric covering. Is there anything wrong with, or any problems that could occur if i use 3/16" AD rivets to rivet these fittings to the tail as in the plans? Why does everyone just bolt them on? Is it just easier or is there a safety issue? http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: solid wire vs cables
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Bill, I think I printed out the details on how to make a jig for forming th e hard wire loops and ferrules for the Piet tail feathers and could probabl y locate them in my stuff, given time. If memory serves, Keri-Ann Price au thored that article for BPA, including photos and details. Be prepared for flak though... the idea of using hard wire braces with wrap ped ferrules got shot at pretty hard last time it came up here. Recognizin g that braided aircraft cable, Nicopress, and turnbuckles are all available and commonly used, the nifty and nostalgic idea of stiff wires seems to ha ve been swept away in the sea of modernity.Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at htt p://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: solid wire vs cables
This can be useful www.flitzerbiplane.com/PianoWire.shtml and www.flitzerbiplane.com/DragWires.shtml Santiago --------------------------------- Yahoo! Encuentros Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho ms fcil, prob el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros. Visit http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Newbie gusset question
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Thanks for the sanity check! Then I'm going to press and continue with rib building! Cheers, Steve C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172602#172602 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: jeremy bramall <outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: flaperons
Hey guys, this is my first post. Complete newbee so we'll see if I can make this thing work. I've never been part of a group/forum like this but I've been reading your posts for a couple of months, and its been fun. My Dad did some horse trading to get a Sky Scout with all of the woodwork done, fuselage and wings assembled, brackets made, control surfaces prefit and many of the cable and pulley parts installed. The tailwheel is on and we are about to fab the gear and get it off the floor. We've been argueing about what wheels and brakes to use and what motor we're going to use. Dad is set on electric start but complains about cost of a motor that we can easily put electric start on. Anyways, thats where were at. My question to you guys is, has anyone toyed with the idea of using flaperons on their Piet? My dad has a 600ft grass strip at his home that he uses for his Rans Coyote II. I have room for about an 800ft strip at my place, but it is in the bottom of a pretty deep valley. The Piet will likely end up spending most of it's time at my place just because Dad doesn't have the hangar space. If the wings weren't already built, we would just add flaps. We've never flown a plane with flaperons and were wondering if it would be an advantage for the Piet. Thanks for the input, Jeremy Bramall DFW, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Subject: flaperons
Welcome Jeremy! Just learn to slip the Piet. It will come down from 1000' in less than a m ile, a lot less. I bet I could land it in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. Getting out would be another story... Flaps, (or flaperons) would add complexity and weight with no advantage. The airframe is very draggy as is. Put the wind to its side and it will dr op out of the sky. (besides it is great fun!) Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeremy bramall Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flaperons Hey guys, this is my first post. Complete newbee so we'll see if I can mak e this thing work. I've never been part of a group/forum like this but I'v e been reading your posts for a couple of months, and its been fun. My Dad did some horse trading to get a Sky Scout with all of the woodwork d one, fuselage and wings assembled, brackets made, control surfaces prefit a nd many of the cable and pulley parts installed. The tailwheel is on and w e are about to fab the gear and get it off the floor. We've been argueing about what wheels and brakes to use and what motor we're going to use. Dad is set on electric start but complains about cost of a motor that we can e asily put electric start on. Anyways, thats where were at. My question to you guys is, has anyone toyed with the idea of using flapero ns on their Piet? My dad has a 600ft grass strip at his home that he uses for his Rans Coyote II. I have room for about an 800ft strip at my place, but it is in the bottom of a pretty deep valley. The Piet will likely end up spending most of it's time at my place just because Dad doesn't have the hangar space. If the wings weren't already built, we would just add flaps . We've never flown a plane with flaperons and were wondering if it would be an advantage for the Piet. Thanks for the input, Jeremy Bramall DFW, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DJ Vegh" <dj(at)veghdesign.com>
Subject: Re: flaperons
Date: Mar 25, 2008
a Piet with flaperons is a tip stall waiting to happen. Spoilerons would be preferred over flaperons in a Piet. On my RC model Piet I have implemented spoilerons. At full spoiler defflection the ailerons are angled up about 30=B0 Makes for very steep approaches with good aileron authority. Seems like the weight involved in a real Piet would make them undeseirable. Besides a slipping Piet can drop down into a small strip easily. DJ Vegh www.azchoppercam.com ----- Original Message ----- From: jeremy bramall To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flaperons Hey guys, this is my first post. Complete newbee so we'll see if I can make this thing work. I've never been part of a group/forum like this but I've been reading your posts for a couple of months, and its been fun. My Dad did some horse trading to get a Sky Scout with all of the woodwork done, fuselage and wings assembled, brackets made, control surfaces prefit and many of the cable and pulley parts installed. The tailwheel is on and we are about to fab the gear and get it off the floor. We've been argueing about what wheels and brakes to use and what motor we're going to use. Dad is set on electric start but complains about cost of a motor that we can easily put electric start on. Anyways, thats where were at. My question to you guys is, has anyone toyed with the idea of using flaperons on their Piet? My dad has a 600ft grass strip at his home that he uses for his Rans Coyote II. I have room for about an 800ft strip at my place, but it is in the bottom of a pretty deep valley. The Piet will likely end up spending most of it's time at my place just because Dad doesn't have the hangar space. If the wings weren't already built, we would just add flaps. We've never flown a plane with flaperons and were wondering if it would be an advantage for the Piet. Thanks for the input, Jeremy Bramall DFW, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: solid wire vs cables
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Santiago, Those were two very interesting links that I had never seen before. Lots of good information. The one for the drag wires uses nico-press sleeves in place of wire ferrules - very interesting. By navigating a bit around the Flitzer site, I found a link to a company that fabricates drum brake assemblies that look like they would go great on a Pietenpol. The design apparently incorporates an arm to prevent rotation of the axle when brakes are applied. The only downside that I can see is the price - about $2000 a pair! But they also sell detailed construction plans for the brakes. Thanks for the tips! Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: flaperons
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Might be interesting to watch, though. A normal Pietenpol has a generous a mount of adverse yaw. Imagine what it would be like with full span aileron s (assuming that's what he's talking about). As others have said Jeremy, landing on an 800' strip is no problem. A 600' strip would be a challenge, but doable (although I'd hate to have to do it right every time, with no margin for error). Getting out of either of the m would be very difficult without a 150 Lycoming on the nose. I keep my Pi et on a 2,000' grass strip with tall trees at the end, and I will not carry passengers in it out of that field. I would not even think about flying i t out of an 800' strip unless there are VERY good, flat approaches on each end. A STOL airplane it is not. It flies like what it is - a 1929 airplane. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DJ Vegh Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flaperons a Piet with flaperons is a tip stall waiting to happen. Spoilerons would be preferred over flaperons in a Piet. On my RC model Pie t I have implemented spoilerons. At full spoiler defflection the ailerons are angled up about 30=B0 Makes for very steep approaches with good ailero n authority. Seems like the weight involved in a real Piet would make them undeseirable. Besides a slipping Piet can drop down into a small strip easily. DJ Vegh www.azchoppercam.com ----- Original Message ----- From: jeremy bramall <mailto:outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flaperons Hey guys, this is my first post. Complete newbee so we'll see if I can ma ke this thing work. I've never been part of a group/forum like this but I' ve been reading your posts for a couple of months, and its been fun. My Dad did some horse trading to get a Sky Scout with all of the woodwork done, fuselage and wings assembled, brackets made, control surfaces prefit and many of the cable and pulley parts installed. The tailwheel is on and we are about to fab the gear and get it off the floor. We've been argueing about what wheels and brakes to use and what motor we're going to use. Da d is set on electric start but complains about cost of a motor that we can easily put electric start on. Anyways, thats where were at. My question to you guys is, has anyone toyed with the idea of using flaper ons on their Piet? My dad has a 600ft grass strip at his home that he uses for his Rans Coyote II. I have room for about an 800ft strip at my place, but it is in the bottom of a pretty deep valley. The Piet will likely end up spending most of it's time at my place just because Dad doesn't have th e hangar space. If the wings weren't already built, we would just add flap s. We've never flown a plane with flaperons and were wondering if it would be an advantage for the Piet. Thanks for the input, Jeremy Bramall DFW, TX href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tail wire metal fittings
Date: Mar 25, 2008
wait, wait, wait! All of you guys have talked about AD rivets!!!!!!!! The plans show steel rivets, NOT aluminum AD rivets. Steel Rivets do not swell in the middle when peened over, nor do they tend to work loose. Whether you want to use them is a different question, but make sure you have the right thing in mind when you make your decision. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Groah<mailto:dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings Sounds good. I'll bolt them on. With them on top of the fabric it's also easier to inspect them. I was leaning towards bolting but I thought I'd throw it out since it's how the plans say to do it. harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: Also as a foot note to that.Rivets tend to come loose with vibration.Now this area may not take too much vibration but over time it could still become a factor.I had a lot of rivets in my Lazair ultralight and they would come loose in the weirdest plases.Places you wouldn't expect that to happen.Just my two cents worth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phillips, Jack Sent: March 25, 2008 12:27 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings I don't think riveting them on is a good idea. I must confess, I don't remember the plans showing them riveted but I wouldn't even consider doing it that way. Rivets don't work well under tension and they swell when driven. This swelling would tend to split the wood underneath, where you can't see it. I think bolts are definitely the way to go. Jack Phillips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:13 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wire metal fittings The plans show the tail wire fittings riveted to the tail with 3/16" rivets and thus end up under the fabric with the tabs sticking through. I see that most people seem to bolt them on top of the tail after fabric covering. Is there anything wrong with, or any problems that could occur if i use 3/16" AD rivets to rivet these fittings to the tail as in the plans? Why does everyone just bolt them on? Is it just easier or is there a safety issue? http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: solid wire vs cables
Date: Mar 25, 2008
the jig for making the loop is pretty simple and the drawings for it are pretty common. What is not as common, or as easy, is making the wrapped ferrule. I know a couple of people who are proficient at making these ferrules, but it is not easy to describe or do. Don't forget, another option to !gasp! nicropress fittings is wrapped and soldered, which is simple and authentic as well. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church<mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 12:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: solid wire vs cables In the plans, the bracing wires for the empennage and for the drag and anti-drag wires are shown as solid wire, or as described in the plans, "hard wire". I realize that this was a common method in the old days, and now almost everyone uses aircraft cable with nicopress fittings. But using the hard wire results in a nice clean look, as seen on Ken Perkins' award winner N34KP. Plus, it's authentic Pietenpol. I ran across a photo and description on Mykitplane.com (Terry Bowden's photos) that said the wires were formed using a jig that was described in an old copy of the BPA newsletter. I'm curious as to what such a jig might look like. So, here's my question: Anyone out there have a copy of the old newsletter that described the jig? Or sketches or photos of such a jig? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
And many of the flying Piet pilots will relate to this observation very closely but to experience landing your Pietenpol into the face of a nice, strong, and steady wind becomes what I call 'a laugher' because you are SO slow and making SO little progress over the ground during your flare that you can literally land and stop your plane within just a handful (or less) of runway centerline dash marks. My only reaction, even to this day after flying this crate for almost 10 years, is to simply laugh out loud at how dreamlike the experience is. You know those dreams where your feet feel like they have been dipped in big gobs of cold honey and you're trying to run out of a jealous husband's house ? That's how slow it feels to land a Piet into a strong headwind. Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: flaperons
Date: Mar 25, 2008
A bunch of those VGs that they use on Cubs would be an interresting experiment. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 4:03 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: flaperons Welcome Jeremy! Just learn to slip the Piet. It will come down from 1000' in less than a mile, a lot less. I bet I could land it in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. Getting out would be another story. Flaps, (or flaperons) would add complexity and weight with no advantage. The airframe is very draggy as is. Put the wind to its side and it will drop out of the sky. (besides it is great fun!) Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeremy bramall Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:45 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: flaperons Hey guys, this is my first post. Complete newbee so we'll see if I can make this thing work. I've never been part of a group/forum like this but I've been reading your posts for a couple of months, and its been fun. My Dad did some horse trading to get a Sky Scout with all of the woodwork done, fuselage and wings assembled, brackets made, control surfaces prefit and many of the cable and pulley parts installed. The tailwheel is on and we are about to fab the gear and get it off the floor. We've been argueing about what wheels and brakes to use and what motor we're going to use. Dad is set on electric start but complains about cost of a motor that we can easily put electric start on. Anyways, thats where were at. My question to you guys is, has anyone toyed with the idea of using flaperons on their Piet? My dad has a 600ft grass strip at his home that he uses for his Rans Coyote II. I have room for about an 800ft strip at my place, but it is in the bottom of a pretty deep valley. The Piet will likely end up spending most of it's time at my place just because Dad doesn't have the hangar space. If the wings weren't already built, we would just add flaps. We've never flown a plane with flaperons and were wondering if it would be an advantage for the Piet. Thanks for the input, Jeremy Bramall DFW, TX http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.c omhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Subject: Re: solid wire vs cables
Oscar, It was stated that the wing drag and antis were double piano wire. No gauge was given. Do you have any info on that? Levi **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Newbie gusset question
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 25, 2008
Steve, I made a small sander out of a piece of one of those free paint stirrers from Home Depot T-88'd to a small maneuverable piece of aluminum scrap. (The scrounger in me tells me to grab an acceptable amount of them every time I go there since they are handy for shims and little homemade tools) http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=14&filter=0 I wrapped a piece of coarse 60 grit over the bottom and pinched it against the handle to hold it during use and cross-hatch scored the gussets and the capstrips prior to gluing. I only scored it and then vacuumed up all the dust thoroughly with a shop vac. I vacuumed all the gussets and all the capstrip areas that were sanded prior to the T-88. We have yet to see how well this works. But, like Jack said, the 1/16th birch ply is so smooth I wanted to make sure the glue had something to grip. It only adds another 10 minutes to each rib but think that it's worth the time. Keep on keepin on! Glenn -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172668#172668 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 25, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: solid wire vs cables
This is what you want to start with. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930091028_19930910 28.pdf ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: solid wire vs cables In the plans, the bracing wires for the empennage and for the drag and anti-drag wires are shown as solid wire, or as described in the plans, "hard wire". I realize that this was a common method in the old days, and now almost everyone uses aircraft cable with nicopress fittings. But using the hard wire results in a nice clean look, as seen on Ken Perkins' award winner N34KP. Plus, it's authentic Pietenpol. I ran across a photo and description on Mykitplane.com (Terry Bowden's photos) that said the wires were formed using a jig that was described in an old copy of the BPA newsletter. I'm curious as to what such a jig might look like. So, here's my question: Anyone out there have a copy of the old newsletter that described the jig? Or sketches or photos of such a jig? Bill C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 3/25/2008 7:17 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2008
From: Pastor Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Sky Skout Plans wanted
I would like to buy a set of sky scout plans, full size version, I already have the flying and glider manual ones. Email me at miket(at)southslope.net with your price. Thanks Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > > You ought to try flying a Lazair into a strong head wind.You actually > land moving backwards.Role out is in reverse.Scary stuff! > Years ago, a guy I knew did that at Teterboro--in a Skyhawk! Said later that he was sure he was going to die, probably by backing into a smokestack. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Date: Mar 26, 2008
My "air taxi" experience was in a Champ leaving Mojave (Burt Rutan country) in a surprisingly steady 40 knot breeze. I started and did my run-up with the wing tie-downs still on. When I was ready, the line boy untied me. I hovered out of the tie down spot, rolling probably 20 feet, air taxied like a helicopter to the runway and climbed backwards (very disconcerting). As soon as I turned downwind, the airport disappeared. Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net> > > harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > > > > You ought to try flying a Lazair into a strong head wind.You actually > > land moving backwards.Role out is in reverse.Scary stuff! > > > Years ago, a guy I knew did that at Teterboro--in a Skyhawk! Said later > that he was sure he was going to die, probably by backing into a smokestack. > > Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Drum Brakes
Date: Mar 26, 2008
Looks like I forgot to give the link to the website of the drum brakes made for the Flitzer. Here it is: http://www.waseyaeroplanes.com/index.html/brakes.htm Looks like good quality work, even if a bit pricey. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Date: Mar 26, 2008
Bike.mike wrote- >My "air taxi" experience was in a Champ leaving Mojave >I hovered out of the tie down spot, rolling probably 20 feet, >air taxied like a helicopter to the runway and climbed backwards And you thought Texans told tall tales! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 26, 2008
I guess my story isn't as exciting as the last one, but I was flying back to my home strip one day and the wind was mostly down the runway and was reported at 16 gusting to 22. It wasn't too bad but I know exactly what you mean Mike C. I came down the runway and into the flair and felt like I was jogging along up and down until it settled on to the strip. The rollout was ridiculously short and as I rolled to a stop only a couple hundred feet from the threshold all I could do was laugh. It feels so strange all you can do is sit there and laugh and think 'That was F-U-U-U-N!' Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172859#172859 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 26, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Don Emch wrote: > It feels so strange all you can do is sit there and laugh and think 'That was F-U-U-U-N!' Years ago, as a student pilot, I went out for a solo cross-country in the Colt we owned back then. The weather people were calling 10 kt with minor gusts. I got the Colt off the ground, and the moment it was over the trees started fighting to keep the wings facing up. Over the next 45 minutes or so, my left shoulder felt bruised, and my head hit the liner two or three times despite a well-cinched belt. I pretty much forgot about where I was going until what should have been two-thirds of the way through the flight. (This did not worry me much, as I was heading north out of Keene, NH, and there wasn't any controlled airspace to worry about until much farther than I intended to go.) Then I recognized the airport below, about 40 degrees off course. I thought for a minute or so about aiming for my original destination and decided just to head home. I later learned that gusts had tipped my instructor's Warrior into a 90-degree bank twice in a 20-mile flight. It seemed exciting at the time. The point being that I've never been more relieved to get back on the ground in an airplane that was still working. (Not that I have all that much air time, alas!) But no sooner had I tied it down and begun walking to the car than I was looking up at the sky, which suddenly was bright blue instead of dark overcast, wishing that it were a nicer day to fly and I could get back into the air. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Baker" <dick(at)aerovisiontech.com>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Date: Mar 26, 2008
We had consistent winds of 20 - 30 just south at Worcester, MA (KORH)which many times required 2100 RPM on final to 33 so that you could get in a reasonable number of touch and go's in your allotted hour of instruction. Dick Baker www.aerovisiontech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind Don Emch wrote: > It feels so strange all you can do is sit there and laugh and think 'That was F-U-U-U-N!' Years ago, as a student pilot, I went out for a solo cross-country in the Colt we owned back then. The weather people were calling 10 kt with minor gusts. I got the Colt off the ground, and the moment it was over the trees started fighting to keep the wings facing up. Over the next 45 minutes or so, my left shoulder felt bruised, and my head hit the liner two or three times despite a well-cinched belt. I pretty much forgot about where I was going until what should have been two-thirds of the way through the flight. (This did not worry me much, as I was heading north out of Keene, NH, and there wasn't any controlled airspace to worry about until much farther than I intended to go.) Then I recognized the airport below, about 40 degrees off course. I thought for a minute or so about aiming for my original destination and decided just to head home. I later learned that gusts had tipped my instructor's Warrior into a 90-degree bank twice in a 20-mile flight. It seemed exciting at the time. The point being that I've never been more relieved to get back on the ground in an airplane that was still working. (Not that I have all that much air time, alas!) But no sooner had I tied it down and begun walking to the car than I was looking up at the sky, which suddenly was bright blue instead of dark overcast, wishing that it were a nicer day to fly and I could get back into the air. Owen Checked by AVG. 8:52 AM Checked by AVG. 8:52 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 26, 2008
OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 26, 2008
Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 26, 2008
Greg, that is the coolest picture. My first axel is just a bit short after I added brakes. I only have about 1.5 inches between the ash block and the brake. My next axel will have more like 3 inches. Of course my isn't flying like Greg's is so who knows if it will be right. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Hi Gene, Mine has about a 6" gap between the ash V-Blocks and the wheel retainer (mine has hydraulic brakes). I wouldn't want it any tighter. Wrapping the bungees is about my least favorite part of maintaining the airplane. Here is a picture that shows that part of the gear pretty well. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: covering wing roots
Date: Mar 27, 2008
Guys, When the weather permits I'm going to spray my wings. I've left the wing roots open thinking I like seeing the inside for inspections. However, I got to wondering if a lot of rain water might find it's way into the wings under the gap covers. Should I cover the wing roots or is it no big deal, what have you guys done. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: covering wing roots
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Douwe, I covered mine primarily to make it a little more difficult for mice and mud-daubers to move in. I have a 2" gap between the wing and the centersection which is covered by an aluminum fairing, held in place with about 900 sheet metal screws. It is a pain to take those fairings off, and it really doesn't allow inspection of anything interesting except the main spar attach bolts. You can't see much through a 2" gap. Here is a picture of the plane when I was rigging it in the hangar before its first flight, with the wing root fairings off. You can see how little actual useful inspection room is available. Jack Phillips Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 7:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering wing roots Guys, When the weather permits I'm going to spray my wings. I've left the wing roots open thinking I like seeing the inside for inspections. However, I got to wondering if a lot of rain water might find it's way into the wings under the gap covers. Should I cover the wing roots or is it no big deal, what have you guys done. Douwe _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
gcardinal wrote: > *Hi Gene,* > ** > *Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord.* > *See attached.* > ** I really like the idea of using hose clamps to join the loops of bungee. I hadn' seen that before. I have the split gear, but this method should work for my setup too. Thanks! Ben Charvet Mims, Fl; NX 866BD reserved Hoping to fly in 09 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Head Wind Takeoff
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
Years ago when I was still a student pilot I took off solo in the Super Cub into a head wind so strong that when I turned downwind I met myself still taking off. By the time I turned final and got back on the ground I had enough hours for an ATP license... Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: sun n fun
Date: Mar 27, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
harvey.rule(at)bell.ca wrote: > > It is the pilots curse that when in the air we want to get down and when > down we want back up.There is a continual worry the whole time that one > is up there of all the things that can or could go wrong.It keeps you on > your toes but makes for many grey hairs. That's what did it? Jeez, if I'd know that I might have taken up kayaking instead. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 27, 2008
Subject: Fantasy
Hi Guys, A lot of times when I go up I purposely try to imagine myself one of the Wright brothers when they began to have some more successful flights from Huffman Prairie outside Dayton. How they must have felt being the first human beings to feel and see these sensations and being able to see the world from the great perspective of the sky looking down. When I saw the photo posted yesterday (or Tues) by Greg Cardinal looking down and through his straight axle gear I was reminded of this. We are a privileged lot! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Greg, Great detailed photo......appears to be about 1200 ft AGL.? Question.....why are you taking a photo of your wheel assembly while flying???? ;) Village idiot Ken H gcardinal wrote: Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Mar 27, 2008
Subject: spreader bar gear question
Probably trying to shoot a picture of his shadow... Look close! Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Greg, Great detailed photo......appears to be about 1200 ft AGL.? Question.....wh y are you taking a photo of your wheel assembly while flying???? ;) Village idiot Ken H gcardinal wrote: Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo<mailto:GeneRambo(at)msn.com> OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave betw een the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to le ngth. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Date: Mar 27, 2008
As they say, The only thing worse than standing on the ground looking up at the sky and saying "I wish I was up there, is being up in the sky, looking down at the ground and saying "I sure wish I was down there!". I work very hard to worry about my plane and myself while we're on the ground, so I don't have to worry while I'm in the air. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 27, 2008
Photo credit belongs to my daughter. She took the picture on her first ride last summer. Life is good! Greg From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Greg, Great detailed photo......appears to be about 1200 ft AGL.? Question.....why are you taking a photo of your wheel assembly while flying???? ;) Village idiot Ken H ________________________________________________________________________________
From: slowbilder(at)comcast.net
Subject: Plans
Date: Mar 28, 2008
Where can Pietenpol plans be purchased? I'm corresponding with a guy who does not use the internet and needs a set of Piet plans. Bob Humbert N491RH
Where can Pietenpol plans be purchased? I'm corresponding with a guy who does not use the internet and needs a set of Piet plans.

Bob Humbert

N491RH

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pietflyr" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 27, 2008
TG9yZCwgR3JlZyEgIEhvdyBkaWQgYW4gdWdseSBkdWRlIGxpa2UgeW91IGdldCBzdWNoIGEgZm94 IGZvciBhIGRhdWdodGVyPyAgV2lsbCBzaGUgYmUgYXQgQnJvZGhlYWQgdGhpcyB5ZWFyPw0KDQpK YWNrUGhpbGxpcHMNCiAgLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCiAgRnJvbTogb3duZXIt cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1waWV0ZW5w b2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV1PbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgZ2NhcmRpbmFsDQogIFNl bnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAyNywgMjAwOCA4OjE1IFBNDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlz dEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogc3ByZWFkZXIg YmFyIGdlYXIgcXVlc3Rpb24NCg0KDQogIFBob3RvIGNyZWRpdCBiZWxvbmdzIHRvIG15IGRhdWdo dGVyLiBTaGUgdG9vayB0aGUgcGljdHVyZSBvbiBoZXIgZmlyc3QgcmlkZSBsYXN0IHN1bW1lci4N CiAgTGlmZSBpcyBnb29kIQ0KDQogIEdyZWcNCiAgICBGcm9tOiBLTUhlaWRlLCBCQSwgQ1BPLCBG QUFPUCANCg0KICAgIEdyZWcsDQoNCiAgICBHcmVhdCBkZXRhaWxlZCBwaG90by4uLi4uLmFwcGVh cnMgdG8gYmUgYWJvdXQgMTIwMCBmdCBBR0wuPyBRdWVzdGlvbi4uLi4ud2h5IGFyZSB5b3UgdGFr aW5nIGEgcGhvdG8gb2YgeW91ciB3aGVlbCBhc3NlbWJseSB3aGlsZSBmbHlpbmc/Pz8/IDspDQoN CiAgICBWaWxsYWdlIGlkaW90DQoNCiAgICBLZW4gSA0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: Mr Rudder <mr_rudder(at)aviaportal.net>
Subject: hello folks.
Hello there fellow aviators! Please allow me to introduce a new website geared towards bringing pilots and non-pilots, hobbyists and professionals, together. HTTP://AVIAPORTAL.NET Our aim is to help aviators socialize, discuss and enjoy everything about wings and the sky. My friends and I developed this non-profit site with the goal to give back to and support the aviation community. We thought this would be best accomplished by providing a medium for members to share and discuss their passion through various features. This website is user-friendly and absolutely free of charge. Get the latest news and reports from the aviation world, as well as the following features that the website offers. Forums: these offer members the opportunity to post information, stories, tips and tricks about numerous aviation topics. We also have a free classified section to post items for sale or wanting to buy. Chat: chatting is live one-on-one discussion with other members. The possibilities here are endless, but lets keep it clean! Blog: blogging gives members the opportunity to randomly post thoughts, ideas, stories and commentaries without the structure of forums. Members are free to post about anything, anytime. Photo Album: members are allowed to post up to 50 MB of pictures. So lets see your planes, your projects and whatever else you have captured with your camera. Groups: this feature offers the option to create groups based on common interests. The groups can be private or public, goal-oriented or just for fun. Just a place to get together with aviator friends. Virtual events: have an upcoming event? This feature allows members to advertise for their future events, as well as report on past events. Posts can be accompanied by pictures. Messages: e-mail other aviation buffs with this feature, as long as mail recipients are aviaportal.net members. Whether youre interested in commercial or general aviation, light sport or ultralights, a career or a hobby, an interest or a passion, this website has something for you. Log on to http://aviaportal.net to sign up, and explore new heights. Have blue skies, Rudolph -- Best regards, Mr Rudder mr_rudder(at)aviaportal.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Plans
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ points to mail order by: HOW TO ORDER AIRCRAFT PLANS (OPTION #1)(By Postman) Please send Check or Money Order to Donald Pietenpol (Manager of Plans/Blueprints) at the below address. For your order to be processed promptly, it must contain the correct price(s) and shipping cost(s) in US Dollars. All aircraft orders are processed immediately upon check clearance. The only exception is if Donald Pietenpol is at one of three required yearly medical check-ups. A shipping delay of two to three weeks will occur. Donald D. Pietenpol (Bernard H. Pietenpol's Son) 1604 Meadow Circle S.E. Rochester, MN 55904 Home Number (507) 289-2436 Home Fax: (507) 289-1279 Email: PietenpolDon(at)Yahoo.com HOW TO ORDER AIRCRAFT PLANS (OPTION #2)(By Postman) Please send Check or Money Order to Andrew Pietenpol (Manager of Plans/Blueprints) at the below address. For your order to be processed promptly, it must contain the correct price(s) and shipping cost(s) in US Dollars. All aircraft orders are processed immediately upon check clearance. Andrew C. Pietenpol (Bernard H. Pietenpol's Grandson) Pietenpol Field & Shop - Cherry Grove P.O. Box 1267 Spring Valley, MN 55975 Home Number: (763) 797-0057 (after 5:00 p.m. Central Time) Email: BHP.And.Sons.Air.Camper.Aircraft(at)Gmail.com I am guessing that a phone call would be a good place to start. Dave N36078 '41 BC-12 At 09:59 PM 3/27/2008, slowbilder(at)comcast.net wrote: >Where can Pietenpol plans be purchased? I'm corresponding with a guy who >does not use the internet and needs a set of Piet plans. > >Bob Humbert >N491RH > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 27, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Ditto's!!! gcardinal wrote: Photo credit belongs to my daughter. She took the picture on her first ride last summer. Life is good! Greg From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Greg, Great detailed photo......appears to be about 1200 ft AGL.? Question.....why are you taking a photo of your wheel assembly while flying???? ;) Village idiot Ken H Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 27, 2008
And daughter #2...... Last year I flew her 130 miles to her friend's summer home in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Her friends were waiting at the airport when we landed. All of her friends treated her like a rock star and my status was instantly raised to "Coolest Dad on the Planet" Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: pietflyr To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Lord, Greg! How did an ugly dude like you get such a fox for a daughter? Will she be at Brodhead this year? JackPhillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 28, 2008
Greg, When I first read your post, I somehow didn't see the last letter of the last word, which resulted in your status being raised to "Coolest Dad on the Plane", which isn't really THAT special when you're flying with a daughter (of any age) in a Pietenpol. Congratulations on your new status. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question And daughter #2...... Last year I flew her 130 miles to her friend's summer home in Spirit Lake, Iowa. Her friends were waiting at the airport when we landed. All of her friends treated her like a rock star and my status was instantly raised to "Coolest Dad on the Planet" Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Date: Mar 28, 2008
Clif, As with all of the other photos of your construction, your work looks top rate. I really like your wooden cabanes - nice shape. And, from the shape of the cardboard on top, it looks as though you're thinking about a "Moth style" fuel tank. I've been thinking the same thing, but you're way ahead of me. Very Nice. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 28, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
A few days ago Santiago posted a couple of links to the Flitzer website. There are a lot of good construction ideas there. I've been looking through different builder's sites, and noticed that the Flitzer incorporates homemade turnbuckles for the drag and anti-drag wires. At first I thought "that's simple - what a great idea". But after looking at the (very low resolution) photos, I'm having a hard time to figure out how they would work. Specifically, how would you adjust the tension when the turnbuckle is installed? They appear to have a short section of threaded rod joining the two halves, but to lengthen or shorten the overall length, one would need to disconnect the turnbuckle from one end, and rotate one end of the assembly. Unless that isn't a threaded rod, but rather, a machine screw, but then - how do you get a tool in there to turn the screw? I think that this is likely the case, and perhaps there is enough room to get a small allen key in there. I don't see any safety wires in the photos Anyone out there know any more about these fittings? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 28, 2008
Thanks, Greg! As usual on here, I got two real answers to my question and thirty knuckleheads commenting on every other thing in the world (including your daughters!) and, of course, wanting to know if there is a cheaper way to do it!! LOL It looks like you have a washer between the shock cords and the wheel retainer. Did you find that this was necessary to keep the cords off of the wheel? I would think that they would not want to spread that way, it does not look like the inner wraps of cord are migrating the other way? Thanks for responding, I will probably stop at two inches (6 looks like wayyy too much, of course, I don't have brakes though) Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal<mailto:gcardinal(at)comcast.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo<mailto:GeneRambo(at)msn.com> OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
Clif Dawson wrote: > My center section is temporarily fitted. After having > a fuselage with nothing above it for so long, it feels > quite different with this big thing sitting above it. > Engine noises now have a whole new feeling. Congratulations! But can you tell us about your spars? Alternatives to the flat plank were a topic of some interest here not long ago, as you may recall. More information about them would be very welcome. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
Date: Mar 28, 2008
Hi Gene, The washer is in place to protect the cord from chafing on the wheel retaining collar bolts. We also added leather cuffs around the ash blocks to prevent the cords from chafing on the numerous nuts, cotter pins and bolt heads in that area. This was done after going through 3 sets of shock cords in two years. Greg -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> Thanks, Greg! As usual on here, I got two real answers to my question and thirty knuckleheads commenting on every other thing in the world (including your daughters!) and, of course, wanting to know if there is a cheaper way to do it!! LOL It looks like you have a washer between the shock cords and the wheel retainer. Did you find that this was necessary to keep the cords off of the wheel? I would think that they would not want to spread that way, it does not look like the inner wraps of cord are migrating the other way? Thanks for responding, I will probably stop at two inches (6 looks like wayyy too much, of course, I don't have brakes though) Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question Hi Gene, Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much? I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess. Gene
Hi Gene,

The washer is in place to protect the cord from chafing on the wheel retaining collar bolts. We also added leather cuffs around the ash blocks to prevent the cords from chafing on the numerous nuts, cotter pins and bolt heads in that area. This was done after going through 3 sets of shock cords in two years.

Greg

Thanks, Greg! As usual on here, I got two real answers to my question and thirty knuckleheads commenting on every other thing in the world (including your daughters!) and, of course, wanting to know if there is a cheaper way to do it!! LOL

It looks like you have a washer between the shock cords and the wheel retainer. Did you find that this was necessary to keep the cords off of the wheel? I would think that they would not want to spread that way, it does not look like the inner wraps of cord are migrating the other way?

Thanks for responding, I will probably stop at two inches (6 looks like wayyy too much, of course, I don't have brakes though)

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: gcardinal

To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:29 PM

Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spreader bar gear question

Hi Gene,

Two inches is about right for 3 wraps of 5/8" cord.

See attached.

Greg Cardinal

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene Rambo

OK, you guys with spreader bar gear . . . how much space did you leave between the ash block and the inner wheel retainer? I assume we need to leave some space for the shock cord, but how much?

I have the gear finished and bolted on, and I am ready to cut my axle to length. I just want to make sure I leave enough excess.

Gene

________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: solid wire vs cables
Date: Mar 28, 2008
Corky asked- > It was stated that the wing drag and antis were double piano wire. No gauge > was given. Do you have any info on that? I looked at the 1932 Flying & Glider Manual plans as well as my set of the "Improved" plans and the drag/anti-drag wire braces in the wings are called out as different things there. The F&GM has them as 3/32" stranded cables (0.094") while the Improved drawings call out 13 ga. hard wire. No idea which wire gauge was used for the hard wire callouts; you can search the archives to see that there have been various different ones theorized but the most likely are the AWG (Brown & Sharpe) or the Washburn steel wire gauges. #13 in AWG is .0720" and in Washburn it's .0915" so they are both close to the 3/32" cable diameter but no telling what the strength difference might be. I find no reference anywhere to double piano wire and there are many different music wire gauges... check here: http://www.sizes.com/materls/wire_music.htm Curiously, the callout for the tail brace wires is also different between the F&GM and the Improved plans. The F&GM (older) calls for #12 hard wire bracing and the Improved (newer) calls for 14 ga. hard wire. So depending on which wire gauge was used, that's a variation of from .0641" (#14 AWG) to .1055" (#12 Washburn wire gauge). Probably due to the availability of wire at the time, as well as Mr. Pietenpol's experimentation with different materials as he refined the "kits" and the design, as well as the plans. As with many things on this airplane, the only thing that is standard is that it's non-standard ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Has any one found using Anchor nuts for inside the wing leading edge a good idea? More weight, expense, but bolts could be replaced with out wrecking the ply Keep building Graham Checked by AVG. 27/03/2008 7:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge
Date: Mar 28, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Graham, My leading edge is drilled, bolted and fitted. This weekend I plan on gluing with T-88 and utilizing 8-32 bolts. I feel the glue is very important and the bolts are there to help line up and pull it tight while gluing. Taking the 172 out this afternoon. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & Robin Hewitt Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge Has any one found using Anchor nuts for inside the wing leading edge a good idea? More weight, expense, but bolts could be replaced with out wrecking the ply Keep building Graham Checked by AVG. 27/03/2008 7:15 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge
Jack T. Textor wrote: > My leading edge is drilled, bolted and fitted. This weekend I plan on > gluing with T-88 and utilizing 8-32 bolts. I feel the glue is very > important and the bolts are there to help line up and pull it tight > while gluing. That brings up an interesting question. I haven't noticed that anyone else uses bolts on their leading edge. (I wish I could find my Flying and Glider Manuals!) No one seems to have problems with alignment, and big rubber bands will do for clamping, especially now that we have epoxy glues. So why did Mr. Pietenpol use bolts? None of the possible explanations I come up with are very satisfying. Does anyone have other thoughts? Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge
Date: Mar 28, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I used bolts and locknuts on my leading edges, then filled the counterbores where the bolt heads are in the leading edge with Superfil. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge Jack T. Textor wrote: > My leading edge is drilled, bolted and fitted. This weekend I plan on > gluing with T-88 and utilizing 8-32 bolts. I feel the glue is very > important and the bolts are there to help line up and pull it tight > while gluing. That brings up an interesting question. I haven't noticed that anyone else uses bolts on their leading edge. (I wish I could find my Flying and Glider Manuals!) No one seems to have problems with alignment, and big rubber bands will do for clamping, especially now that we have epoxy glues. So why did Mr. Pietenpol use bolts? None of the possible explanations I come up with are very satisfying. Does anyone have other thoughts? Owen _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 28, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: N Number
Well, I finally took the plunge and reserved an N number for my Piet. It took me a long time to decide what number would be appropriate but I think my final choice seems obvious now. As you may recall, SpaceShipOne carries the number N328KF which stands for 328,000 feet, the target altitude for the X-Prize flights. Therefore, my Piet will be numbered N328X and will probably be named SpaceShip 0.1. Unfortunately the FAA doesn't allow you to start your N number with a zero or it would have been N005KF. Spoil Sports. Tom S. ____ | ____ \8/ / \ BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS(at)MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Subject: Re: spreader bar gear question
that's better than just "coolest dad on the plane..." _____________________________________________________________ Click to find local singles for dating, romance and fun http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijm1uVNHMXis4gPBYQ5GU8VYigLmStSLx4ReIydaFr0GFKuX8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Acceptable Engine Confusion
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Mar 28, 2008
I've received my Piet plans and manual and have read through them. It seems that the Corvair is an acceptable alternative. The GN-1 plans however say that a Corvair engine doesn't have enough thrust. I know that the Corvair was an alternative to the Ford Model A and others but does it develop enough thrust? Do the Continentals and Lyco's develop more thrust? I'm on the heavy side and will be flying out of airports that are high altitude 6,500 ft and up. What's the 'collective' wisdom? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173367#173367 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re Bolts in Leading Edge
Date: Mar 29, 2008
I should have been more explicit, I meant the nuts for the plates bolting the three peice wing onto the center section. Once the ply is on these important nuts cannot be tightened except by accessing thru the root rib gap. Anchor nuts inside the D nose would permit this. Regards Graham Checked by AVG. 28/03/2008 10:58 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: landing a Piet with a strong headwind
First, thanks guys. Now, Bill, yes I am going to arch the tank top two inches higher. When I made my Piet windvane I bumped up the center and it looked fine on the model. The tank shape I'm planing on should come out to 21 US gallons. With a properly fitted tube and funnel I can save on baby oil. :-) " Look Mommy, what's that yellow smoke coming from that airplane?" One thing I've come to realize is that the center section spars are too short to have any significant bending loads. But I did make them by glueing strips of 3/8" X 3/4" Hemlock to each side of 1/4" ply, thus ending up with a 1" wide section. Partialy to experiment with this kind of construction and have something to attach the brackets to. If you look closely at the filler blocks on the spar ends, under the metal brackets, you'll see the ends taper out. Looks fancy and isn't too important structuraly at this location but if you make your wing spars with this kind of built-up construction, including the British one, this kind of "butterfly" section is important at the outer strut attach point. as it spreads and dissapates the bending loads. This kind of construction was always emphasized in wooden hollow mast construction for any size boat. Those boys knew a thing or two about keeping their "sticks" in one peice. After all, a mast IS a wing spar, isn't it. I've attached the hersheybar wing loading chart. Mark the outer strut attach point on it to see how the wing loads concentrate at this location. It should be somewhere near the 60 point I think. Clif > Clif Dawson wrote: >> My center section is temporarily fitted. After having >> a fuselage with nothing above it for so long, it feels >> quite different with this big thing sitting above it. >> Engine noises now have a whole new feeling. > Congratulations! But can you tell us about your spars? Alternatives to the > flat plank were a topic of some interest here not long ago, as you may > recall. More information about them would be very welcome. > > Owen > > > -- > Date: 3/28/2008 10:58 AM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge
Owen, When you finally get around to attaching the leading edge, it will become abundantly clear why Bernard included those leading edge attach bolts. It is impossible to glue such a long piece and keep everything lined up perfectly and be assured everything ends up straight and in the precise location when the glue is dry. You don't need to use such big bolts like Bernard. I only used 6-32 screws. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Subject: N number reservation
Tim, I also reserved my N number on Thursday. I picked 929DH. I wish I could have had 1929DH but that is too long, but I am satisfied with what I got. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re Anchor nuts in Leading edge
HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: > When you finally get around to attaching the leading edge, it will > become abundantly clear why Bernard included those leading edge attach > bolts. It is impossible to glue such a long piece and keep everything > lined up perfectly and be assured everything ends up straight and in > the precise location when the glue is dry. You don't need to use such > big bolts like Bernard. I only used 6-32 screws. Thanks. Still leaves the question of why no one else does it, but no doubt you're right. It will become clear when I have to do it. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N number reservation
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Dan, I'm sure you know this, but if there are others that don't, remember if you use NX at the front of your number when you paint it on the airplane it takes the place of painting EXPERIMENTAL on the fuselage near the cockpit. Just a nice little bonus of building an older design. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173400#173400 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Re Bolts in Leading Edge
Date: Mar 29, 2008
MessageGraham: Although I may be misunderstanding, it looks like you are suggesting that the leading edge is a full D box which would prevent you from accessing any bolts/nuts that go through the spar, such as the wing attach fittings. The leading edge material, however, only goes from the nose of the ribs to the top of the spar, not all the way around, so any bolts/nuts are accessible from the bottom of the leading edge. Again, I could be misunderstanding your question. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Graham & Robin Hewitt<mailto:grhewitt(at)globaldial.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Bolts in Leading Edge I should have been more explicit, I meant the nuts for the plates bolting the three peice wing onto the center section. Once the ply is on these important nuts cannot be tightened except by accessing thru the root rib gap. Anchor nuts inside the D nose would permit this. Regards Graham Checked by AVG. 28/03/2008 10:58 AM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Date: Mar 29, 2008
You know, you can not only reserve a number, but you can send in your $5 and register the airplane. Mine has been registered for years while under construction (or not), and I have the permanent card in hand. That way, you do not have to renew your reservation periodically or worry about losing your number. Also, you cannot have the FAA give your final inspection and issue an airworthiness unless the airplane has been registered and has a permanent registration on board, NOT a pink copy of a pending registration. Found that one out the hard way! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com<mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation Tim, I also reserved my N number on Thursday. I picked 929DH. I wish I could have had 1929DH but that is too long, but I am satisfied with what I got. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&nci d=aolhom00030000000001>. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Bob: Plenty of Piets and GN1s (and Zenith 601s) flying around today with Corvair engines. Many using the unmodified engine as Bernard originally did and more recently many following William Wynnes recipe. Bernard's original conversion likely only made about 65 to 70 hp at the useable rpm for a prop. Now if you follow the William Wynne (www.flycorvair.com) conversion where you replace the original cam with the OT-10 profile cam from Clarks Corvair leave the big blower fan off and follow all the other recommended steps to convert the engine (including nitriding the crank for safety) you can get 90 to 100 useable hp from it. And that is a whole lot more than the original Ford engine. We have several on this list currently flying with the Corvair. Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- > > I've received my Piet plans and manual and have read through them. It seems that the Corvair is an acceptable alternative. > > The GN-1 plans however say that a Corvair engine doesn't have enough thrust. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N number reservation
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 29, 2008
I remember reading this once before but couldn't seem to locate the instructions on the submission. Not to over think the process, do you need to provide a serial number and if so what is the required format for that? Assuming that we create our own SN John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:46:41 To: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation You know, you can not only reserve a number, but you can send in your $5 and register the airplane. Mine has been registered for years while under construction (or not), and I have the permanent card in hand. That way, you do not have to renew your reservation periodically or worry about losing your number. Also, you cannot have the FAA give your final inspection and issue an airworthiness unless the airplane has been registered and has a permanent registration on board, NOT a pink copy of a pending registration. Found that one out the hard way! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation Tim, I also reserved my N number on Thursday. I picked 929DH. I wish I could have had 1929DH but that is too long, but I am satisfied with what I got. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ---------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
John, You make one up. I used the years of my kids birth. #737678 (and my N number ending, is in honor of my Mentor, Dick Lawson) Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Recine" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation > > > I remember reading this once before but couldn't seem to locate the > instructions on the submission. Not to over think the process, do you need > to provide a serial number and if so what is the required format for that? > Assuming that we create our own SN > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:46:41 > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation > > > You know, you can not only reserve a number, but you can send in your $5 > and register the airplane. Mine has been registered for years while under > construction (or not), and I have the permanent card in hand. That way, > you do not have to renew your reservation periodically or worry about > losing your number. Also, you cannot have the FAA give your final > inspection and issue an airworthiness unless the airplane has been > registered and has a permanent registration on board, NOT a pink copy of a > pending registration. Found that one out the hard way! > > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:44 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation > > > Tim, > > I also reserved my N number on Thursday. I picked 929DH. I wish I could > have had 1929DH but that is too long, but I am satisfied with what I got. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ---------------- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
I am building a Corvair Piet and will also be flying out of a 6500 ft. airport, should easily be enough power for at least solo flying from the research I have done. But won't know for sure until it really flies. Rick On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:59 PM, bhassel wrote: > > I've received my Piet plans and manual and have read through them. It > seems that the Corvair is an acceptable alternative. > > The GN-1 plans however say that a Corvair engine doesn't have enough > thrust. > > I know that the Corvair was an alternative to the Ford Model A and others > but does it develop enough thrust? Do the Continentals and Lyco's develop > more thrust? > > I'm on the heavy side and will be flying out of airports that are high > altitude 6,500 ft and up. > > What's the 'collective' wisdom? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173367#173367 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Powder coat heat question
Question for any powder coat experts out there - have a powder coated engine mount and the way my Corvair engine is sitting with the exhaust pipe taking a hard 90 degree bend from the end of the manifold the pipe will come within about a half inch of one of the powder coated engine mount tubes. Question is how much heat can the powder coating take? The guys at the shop that do the coating said that they coat Harley cylinders and heads so it can take a fair amount of heat. Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Date: Mar 29, 2008
I just called mine "Gene Rambo Pietenpol Aircamper" with serial number 1. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: John Recine<mailto:AmsafetyC(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" > I remember reading this once before but couldn't seem to locate the instructions on the submission. Not to over think the process, do you need to provide a serial number and if so what is the required format for that? Assuming that we create our own SN John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com<mailto:generambo(at)msn.com>> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:46:41 To:> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation You know, you can not only reserve a number, but you can send in your $5 and register the airplane. Mine has been registered for years while under construction (or not), and I have the permanent card in hand. That way, you do not have to renew your reservation periodically or worry about losing your number. Also, you cannot have the FAA give your final inspection and issue an airworthiness unless the airplane has been registered and has a permanent registration on board, NOT a pink copy of a pending registration. Found that one out the hard way! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com<mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:44 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: N number reservation Tim, I also reserved my N number on Thursday. I picked 929DH. I wish I could have had 1929DH but that is too long, but I am satisfied with what I got. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ---------------- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Powder coat heat question
Date: Mar 29, 2008
even if the powder coat can take the heat, you should make a small shield of stainless steel and clamp it to the mount tube between the exhaust and the mount. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Powder coat heat question Question for any powder coat experts out there - have a powder coated engine mount and the way my Corvair engine is sitting with the exhaust pipe taking a hard 90 degree bend from the end of the manifold the pipe will come within about a half inch of one of the powder coated engine mount tubes. Question is how much heat can the powder coating take? The guys at the shop that do the coating said that they coat Harley cylinders and heads so it can take a fair amount of heat. Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
Early on I was wondering about the Corvair hype. My Mentor set me straight on that. The HP's everyone is talking about is up into the higher RPM range. In the range of an A-65 Continental, the corvair is the same or less. And in my book, there is nothing more reliable than a 65. Guess many have used them, but think they had to go to a shorter prop, so the tips don't reach super-sonic. You can go to this site to see many dyno tests of various Corvairs, and see to get 95-100hp, you need to spin a prop at approx 3500 rpm http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/specs.html Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ----- Original Message ----- From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Acceptable Engine Confusion > > I've received my Piet plans and manual and have read through them. It > seems that the Corvair is an acceptable alternative. > > The GN-1 plans however say that a Corvair engine doesn't have enough > thrust. > > I know that the Corvair was an alternative to the Ford Model A and others > but does it develop enough thrust? Do the Continentals and Lyco's develop > more thrust? > > I'm on the heavy side and will be flying out of airports that are high > altitude 6,500 ft and up. > > What's the 'collective' wisdom? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173367#173367 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Powder coat heat question
Date: Mar 29, 2008
HI Rick, I worried about that type of exhaust a long time due to the heat burnout at the 90 degree bend. I finally went to SS header similar to Mark Langfords KR. It looks great and is a lot lighter by a few lbs. See you at sun n fun? I am almost ready to start covering. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Powder coat heat question Question for any powder coat experts out there - have a powder coated engine mount and the way my Corvair engine is sitting with the exhaust pipe taking a hard 90 degree bend from the end of the manifold the pipe will come within about a half inch of one of the powder coated engine mount tubes. Question is how much heat can the powder coating take? The guys at the shop that do the coating said that they coat Harley cylinders and heads so it can take a fair amount of heat. Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Powder coat heat question
Yes Gardiner, I will be there Fri and Sat. and I will look you. Rick On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote: > HI Rick, I worried about that type of exhaust a long time due to the heat > burnout at the 90 degree bend. I finally went to SS header similar to Mark > Langfords KR. It looks great and is a lot lighter by a few lbs. See you at > sun n fun? I am almost ready to start covering. Gardiner Mason > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:35 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Powder coat heat question > > Question for any powder coat experts out there - have a powder coated > engine mount and the way my Corvair engine is sitting with the exhaust pipe > taking a hard 90 degree bend from the end of the manifold the pipe will come > within about a half inch of one of the powder coated engine mount tubes. > Question is how much heat can the powder coating take? The guys at the shop > that do the coating said that they coat Harley cylinders and heads so it can > take a fair amount of heat. > > Rick > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Powder coat heat question
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Rick, I will be camping out under the wing of my cessna 140 N3533V in the vintage camping area. Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Powder coat heat question Yes Gardiner, I will be there Fri and Sat. and I will look you. Rick On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote: HI Rick, I worried about that type of exhaust a long time due to the heat burnout at the 90 degree bend. I finally went to SS header similar to Mark Langfords KR. It looks great and is a lot lighter by a few lbs. See you at sun n fun? I am almost ready to start covering. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Powder coat heat question Question for any powder coat experts out there - have a powder coated engine mount and the way my Corvair engine is sitting with the exhaust pipe taking a hard 90 degree bend from the end of the manifold the pipe will come within about a half inch of one of the powder coated engine mount tubes. Question is how much heat can the powder coating take? The guys at the shop that do the coating said that they coat Harley cylinders and heads so it can take a fair amount of heat. Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Yeah, I have the WW conversion manual and a lead on a couple of Vair engines. Even having someone else build them gets me into the air cheaper than a Conty (if I could find one). I was wondering why the discrepancy between the two plan sets and if it would work for me. I won't be dong a lot of solo work. There is a gentleman up the road in Salida (sp) Co that is using a turbo Subie so I'll try and contact him as well. Looking at the graphs in the link provided it appears I'll at least equal the hp with the 100hp OT10 Vair that I'd have in a Continental; though slinging a bigger prop would be nice. Thanks, Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173506#173506 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Two New Lists Added to the Matronics Lineup!
Dear Listers, I've added two new Email Lists to the Matronics List and Forum lineup today. These include the Rans-List and RV12-List. Please surf over to the Matronics List Subscription page and sign up for these new Lists if they are of interest to you: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Full support on the Forums, List Browse, Archives, etc. is available. Rans-List: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rans-List RV12-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV12-List Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: engine choices (was Acceptable Engine Confusion)
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Bob; I have a very good friend, Jeff Scott, in Los Alamos. He's an A&P as well as an EAA Tech Counselor and flies a KR-2S out of Los Alamos. You might get his opinion on powerplants for use in your area because he has told me on many occasions that he feels that an A65 or an A75 is just not enough power for the higher elevations, especially in the summertime. That's the reason why John Dilatush installed the turbo Subaru on his Piet- when you get a density altitude in the high four figures (or five figures, as you can get in Salida in the summer and probably in Los Alamos as well), you need "more". Jeff is very active in the EAA chapter there and you shouldn't have any trouble locating him. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: engine choices (was Acceptable Engine Confusion)
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Thanks - I'll look hime up! Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173602#173602 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Bob, The turbo Subaru that was previously owned by John Dilatush in Salida, CO is now owned by Greg Bacon in Prairie Home, MO Greg is not currently on this list. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net> > > Yeah, I have the WW conversion manual and a lead on a couple of Vair > engines. Even having someone else build them gets me into the air cheaper > than a Conty (if I could find one). > > I was wondering why the discrepancy between the two plan sets and if it > would work for me. I won't be dong a lot of solo work. > > There is a gentleman up the road in Salida (sp) Co that is using a turbo > Subie so I'll try and contact him as well. > > Thanks, > > Bob > Santa Fe, NM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 29, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
Bob John who built the turbo Subaru Piet sold it a couple years ago to someone in the midwest, but he would probably help you with an engine decision if you can contact him. A turbo something would be the way to go at the altitudes we will be flying. Rick On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 4:37 PM, bhassel wrote: > > Yeah, I have the WW conversion manual and a lead on a couple of Vair > engines. Even having someone else build them gets me into the air cheaper > than a Conty (if I could find one). > > I was wondering why the discrepancy between the two plan sets and if it > would work for me. I won't be dong a lot of solo work. > > There is a gentleman up the road in Salida (sp) Co that is using a turbo > Subie so I'll try and contact him as well. > > Looking at the graphs in the link provided it appears I'll at least equal > the hp with the 100hp OT10 Vair that I'd have in a Continental; though > slinging a bigger prop would be nice. > > Thanks, > > Bob > Santa Fe, NM > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173506#173506 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Powder coat heat question
I work in a plant that powder coats shelving. The oven is set for 350 degrees. So it must melt somewhere below that. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Mar 30, 2008
Hey guys, Was down near Louisville yesterday poking around Clark Cty airport in southern Indiana looking at planes with my wife. We poked out head in a large public hangar and guess what we saw? A pretty little Piet. Looked pretty new, blue fuse with yellow wings and a continental. Nicely built, very simple and true. Can't remember the name on the reg plate, but wanted to see if he (Robert ???) was on the list. Very fun to find one in amongst the spam cans, kinda like a breath of fresh air. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: more on engine choice
I think it far more important to build a light plane, than build a heavy one and just add more HP. My Piet is 99% built exactly to the plans, and quite light. When I take my friend Bob up, and he weighs around 180, I can see the drastic difference in climb. Couldn't imagine haveing an extra 180lbs built into the Piet, and then adding Bob. With me alone, with the A65, I cruise in the low 80's. (checked with GPS). Now add Bob, and I'm down to mid 70's. If I add a 180lbs of structure, and more fuel, don't know what speed I'd see. My opinion to the "looking for more Horsepower Guys" is to not add stuff on and make it too heavy. Build to the plans Walt Evans NX140DL "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2008
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Powder coat heat question
Poking around on the net led me to a page for a company called East Coast Powder Coating. In their warranty section they mention the following: "Not responsible for burnt powder coating if temperature(s) exceed the maximum powder coating temperature limit(s) (1000 for high temp powders - 300 for all other powders) once part(s) have been installed or used." VAHOWDY(at)aol.com wrote: I work in a plant that powder coats shelving. The oven is set for 350 degrees. So it must melt somewhere below that. --------------------------------- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2008
Sorry to hear that Piet is no longer - just up the road! So much for a planned trip. I had thought of a turbo due to the altitude and my own weight (230). After following John Slade's efforts on his turbo'd rotary Cozy MK IV I've learned that you can't use the standard car setup at least for long. They're setup up for short usage durations and at much higher rpm's than I'd be using. hmmm...maybe a twin engined Piet... [Shocked] Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173696#173696 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Engine Confusion
WW has flight tested a turbo Corvair engine, you can see the description of it on his website. http://www.flycorvair.com Rick On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 11:31 AM, bhassel wrote: > > Sorry to hear that Piet is no longer - just up the road! So much for a > planned trip. > > I had thought of a turbo due to the altitude and my own weight (230). > After following John Slade's efforts on his turbo'd rotary Cozy MK IV I've > learned that you can't use the standard car setup at least for long. > They're setup up for short usage durations and at much higher rpm's than > I'd be using. > > hmmm...maybe a twin engined Piet... [Shocked] > > Bob > Santa Fe, NM > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173696#173696 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 30, 2008
Bill, I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently). Tom Bernie Gloucester, Mass On Mar 28, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Bill Church wrote: > A few days ago Santiago posted a couple of links to the Flitzer > website. There are a lot of good construction ideas there. I've been > looking through different builder's sites, and noticed that the > Flitzer incorporates homemade turnbuckles for the drag and anti-drag > wires. At first I thought "that's simple - what a great idea". But > after looking at the (very low resolution) photos, I'm having a hard > time to figure out how they would work. Specifically, how would you > adjust the tension when the turnbuckle is installed? They appear to > have a short section of threaded rod joining the two halves, but to > lengthen or shorten the overall length, one would need to disconnect > the turnbuckle from one end, and rotate one end of the assembly. > Unless that isn't a threaded rod, but rather, a machine screw, but > then - how do you get a tool in there to turn the screw? I think > that this is likely the case, and perhaps there is enough room to > get a small allen key in there. I don't see any safety wires in the > photos > Anyone out there know any more about these fittings? > > Bill C. > Thomas Bernie tsbe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: engine choices (was Acceptable Engine Confusion)
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Mar 30, 2008
Thanks for the tip on Jeff! I was able to get a hold of hi this evening. It looks like I'll also be joining his EAA chapter. Thanks again! Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173796#173796 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 30, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Thomas Bernie wrote: > I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently). How do you tighten them? There isn't much clearance to get a wrench in, much less actually turn the nut. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
I use an allen wrench, holding the nut with a custom made spanner (or a vicegrip if I have clearance). It's not easy and you have to be careful not to twist the cable, but once it's locked down it's fine. On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Owen Davies wrote: > > > > Thomas Bernie wrote: >> I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently). > How do you tighten them? There isn't much clearance to get a wrench > in, much less actually turn the nut. > > Owen > > Thomas Bernie tsbe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Don: Using the NX would have been my first choice also. However the FAA seems to have taken that option off the table. If you go to the FAA N Number reservations website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses%5Fcertificates/aircraft%5Fcertification/aircraft%5Fregistry/special%5Fnnumbers/) you will find the following explanation: The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance with FAR Part 45.22. The site only allows you to begin with a number which is why I ended my number with X. (Besides which "X-Ray" just sounds cool.) "Experimental 328 X-Ray inbound for low pass over the spaceport . . er, airport." Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ >>> EmchAir(at)aol.com 3/29/2008 8:23 AM >>> >you know this, but if there are others that don't, remember if you use NX at the front of your number when you paint it on the airplane it takes the place of painting >EXPERIMENTAL on the fuselage near the cockpit. Just a nice little bonus of building an older design. BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS(at)MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
The FAA will not ISSUE an NX number. However, you can still use the NX, and avoid having to stencil "Experimental" on your airplane. Mine is offically listed as N899JP, but I painted it on as NX899JP and the Inspector from the FSDO did not bat an eye at that. If you have a radio and call in to air traffice control, you can either call yourself "Experimental " or "November X-Ray..." I like to call in and just call myself "November X-Ray Eight Niner Niner Juliet Papa". They invariably ask what kind of experimental I am. I tell them I'm a Pietenpol Air Camper and ask for a groundspeed readout, which is usually somewhere around 60 knots. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: N number reservation Don: Using the NX would have been my first choice also. However the FAA seems to have taken that option off the table. If you go to the FAA N Number reservations website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses%5Fcertificates/aircraft%5Fcertification/air craft%5Fregistry/special%5Fnnumbers/) you will find the following explanation: * The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance with FAR Part 45.22. <http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/CFB016AA 41963A1C86256A6900512337?OpenDocument> The site only allows you to begin with a number which is why I ended my number with X. (Besides which "X-Ray" just sounds cool.) "Experimental 328 X-Ray inbound for low pass over the spaceport . . er, airport." Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ >>> EmchAir(at)aol.com 3/29/2008 8:23 AM >>> >you know this, but if there are others that don't, remember if you use NX at the front of your number when you paint it on the airplane it takes the place of painting >EXPERIMENTAL on the fuselage near the cockpit. Just a nice little bonus of building an older design. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Date: Mar 31, 2008
The option is not off of the table. All that this passage means is that the FAA does not include the X with the issued number, a practice they stopped in the 1940's. Display in accordance with Part 45.22 means that you CAN put an X, or C, or R, after the N, as appropriate, and in the case of an X, omit the "experimental" painted on the side. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM STINEMETZE<mailto:TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:21 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: N number reservation Don: Using the NX would have been my first choice also. However the FAA seems to have taken that option off the table. If you go to the FAA N Number reservations website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses%5Fcertificates/aircraft%5Fcertification/airc raft%5Fregistry/special%5Fnnumbers/<http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifica tes/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/special_nnumbers/>) you will find the following explanation: a.. The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance with FAR Part 45.22.<http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/CFB 016AA41963A1C86256A6900512337?OpenDocument> The site only allows you to begin with a number which is why I ended my number with X. (Besides which "X-Ray" just sounds cool.) "Experimental 328 X-Ray inbound for low pass over the spaceport . . er, airport." Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ >>> EmchAir(at)aol.com 3/29/2008 8:23 AM >>> >you know this, but if there are others that don't, remember if you use NX at the front of your number when you paint it on the airplane it takes the place of painting >EXPERIMENTAL on the fuselage near the cockpit. Just a nice little bonus of building an older design. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Tom, The X right after the N number is not part of your registration. But a substitute for the 2" lettering " EXPERIMENTAL" near the cockpit area. You register with FAA without the X For example N 15KV But on the fuselage it says NX 15KV Perfectly legal and in compliance with FAR Part 45.22. Regards Hans -----Original Message----- From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 8:21 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: N number reservation Don: Using the NX would have been my first choice also. However the FAA seems to have taken that option off the table. If you go to the FAA N Number reservations website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses%5Fcertificates/aircraft%5Fcertification/airc raft%5Fregistry/special%5Fnnumbers/) you will find the following explanation: The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance with FAR Part 45.22. The site only allows you to begin with a number which is why I ended my number with X. (Besides which "X-Ray"just sounds cool.) "Experimental 328 X-Ray inbound for low pass over the spaceport . . er, airport." Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ >>> EmchAir(at)aol.com 3/29/2008 8:23 AM >>> >you know this, but if there are others that don't, remember if you use NX at the front of your number when you paint it on the airplane it takes the place of painting >EXPERIMENTAL on the fuselage near the cockpit. Just a nice little bonus of building an older design. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Date: Mar 31, 2008
The way I understand it is that you get an N number from the FAA but you can add the X after the N when you apply your number to the plane. My N number is N20795 but on the plane it is NX20795 and the X replaces the word "EXPERIMENTAL" My reserved number for the Piet that I'm building is N 88XN but on the plane it will be NX88XN which reads the same frontwards, backwards, and upside down. Roman Bukolt NX20795 On Mar 31, 2008, at 8:21 AM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: > Don: > > Using the NX would have been my first choice also. However the FAA > seems to have taken that option off the table. If you go to the FAA > N Number reservations website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses%5Fcertificates/aircraft%5Fcertification/aircraft%5Fregistry/special%5Fnnumbers/ > ) you will find the following explanation: > The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. > On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance > with FAR Part 45.22. > > The site only allows you to begin with a number which is why I ended > my number with X. (Besides which "X-Ray" just sounds cool.) > "Experimental 328 X-Ray inbound for low pass over the spaceport . . > er, airport." > > Tom Stinemetze > > > ____ | ____ > \8/ > / \ > > > >>> EmchAir(at)aol.com 3/29/2008 8:23 AM >>> > >you know this, but if there are others that don't, remember if you > use NX at the front of your number when you paint it on the airplane > it takes the place of painting >EXPERIMENTAL on the fuselage near > the cockpit. Just a nice little bonus of building an older design. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Thomas Bernie wrote: > > > I use an allen wrench, holding the nut with a custom made spanner (or > a vicegrip if I have clearance). It's not easy and you have to be > careful not to twist the cable, but once it's locked down it's fine. Ahhh! That explains it. Thanks. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solid wire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle. First, the solid wire experimenting: I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. The design of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the last week - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and was easy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. I just happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around as well. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is pretty straightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) for bending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod, ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven into a block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assemblies to test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts were much better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, I would get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistant results). Overall I was pretty pleased with the finished product (for an amateur) - looks good, and feels strong. Second, the homemade turnbuckle: My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was a couple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzer biplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size and load carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple of strips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it was possible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod in place). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricated from a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which I ground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portion of the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machine screw). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6 of a turn (or 60=B0) in order to position the wrench for the next "crank", but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench, since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tight the way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rod instead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safety wire, to prevent the tension from releasing. I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, and tightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked! Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=18 33 <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1 833&P laneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper> &PlaneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper Note that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with no special equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and a bench vise. Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemade turnbuckles) I would suggest doing some physical testing to determine the actual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Tom, Nice photo. Your turnbuckles look very sililar to the Flitzer-style fittings. How are they for adjusting? (pain in the butt, or just as annoying as regular turnbuckles). Of course, the adjusting should be a one-time thing, so as long as they work, the extra fiddling (if any) should be inconsequential, in the long run. Will you need to safety wire the assembly, or does the jam-nut do that for you? Thanks for sharing. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NX
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Plus NX just looks cool on an old airplane. Think of Charles Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis----it was an experimental and thus carried the same airframe markings. Tons of the air racing planes carried NX as well so consider yourself in good company----plus who wants to put the big EXPERIEMENTAL bumper sticker anywhere on an airplane if you don't have to ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: N number reservation
Tom, Part 45.22, referenced at the end of that statement, says this: 45.22 (b). A small US registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a US registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been issued under 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if: 1. It displays in accordance with 45.21 marks at least two inches high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" followed by-- (i) The US registration number of the aircraft; or (ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft: "C" standard, "R" restricted, "L" limited, or "X" experimental Hope that helps, Ryan TOM STINEMETZE wrote: Don: Using the NX would have been my first choice also. However the FAA seems to have taken that option off the table. If you go to the FAA N Number reservations website (http://www.faa.gov/licenses%5Fcertificates/aircraft%5Fcertification/aircraft%5Fregistry/special%5Fnnumbers/) you will find the following explanation: The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance with FAR Part 45.22. The site only allows you to begin with a number which is why I ended my number with X. (Besides which "X-Ray" just sounds cool.) "Experimental 328 X-Ray inbound for low pass over the spaceport . . er, airport." Tom Stinemetze --------------------------------- OMG, Sweet deal for Yahoo! users/friends: Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. W00t ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: NX
Date: Mar 31, 2008
The racing planes often used NR for "Racing", although later on the R became "Restricted" Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]<mailto:michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX Plus NX just looks cool on an old airplane. Think of Charles Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis----it was an experimental and thus carried the same airframe markings. Tons of the air racing planes carried NX as well so consider yourself in good company----plus who wants to put the big EXPERIEMENTAL bumper sticker anywhere on an airplane if you don't have to ? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: NX
Thanks to all for the needed information concerning the use of "X" in the N number. I may have to rethink my number after all since November X-Ray 328 X-Ray sounds a little redundant. Tom Stinemetze ____ | ____ \8/ / \ >>> michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov 3/31/2008 9:30 AM >>> Plus NX just looks cool on an old airplane. Think of Charles Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis----it was an experimental and thus carried the same airframe markings. Tons of the air racing planes carried NX as well so consider yourself in good company----plus who wants to put the big EXPERIEMENTAL bumper sticker anywhere on an airplane if you don't have to ? BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS(at)MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: del magsam <farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Looks like a very nice arrangement Bill...Just thinking out loud here...maybe a regular nico press ferrel that could clamp onto the wire instead of the wrapped wire style. This might provide less "give". And Instead of feeding the wire through the drilled holes in the turnbuckle, put a pin or bolt through the turnbuckle and have the wire wrapped around that for less wear tendancies. Del Bill Church wrote: Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solid wire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel(at)rocketmail.com" --------------------------------- OMG, Sweet deal for Yahoo! users/friends: Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. W00t ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Thanks for the input, Del. As I wrote, I will need to do a bit more experimenting with this before putting it in my plane. I plan to do a bit of tension testing of the bent wire + ferrules to see how they hold up, and see if they do "give". I would plan to pre-load them before installing in any case - to ensure that they are "snug". And you are definitely right about not feeding the wire directly through the drilled holes - I would probably use a clevis pin there - the wire acting directly on the raw edge of the turnbuckle would NOT be a good thing. This was my first prototype - made with materials I had on hand. It's not a final design, but I think it's on the right track. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of del magsam Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Looks like a very nice arrangement Bill...Just thinking out loud here...maybe a regular nico press ferrel that could clamp onto the wire instead of the wrapped wire style. This might provide less "give". And Instead of feeding the wire through the drilled holes in the turnbuckle, put a pin or bolt through the turnbuckle and have the wire wrapped around that for less wear tendancies. Del ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: radio calls and NX
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Tom, As others have pointed out, your FAA N-number doesn't recognize the X as part of your registration so when you make radio calls you don't use it, at least I don't since the X is merely a required airframe marking showing that your plane is an experimental, amateur built. My tailfeathers are NX48MC but the FAA Registration only shows N48MC and I call it on my radio as "Experimental (or Pietenpol) Forty-eight Mike-Charlie, entering left downwind at Columbia Station for runway 36" Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Speaking of turnbuckles, I got a bunch of hardware store turnbuckles with my plane. They have an aluminum body and steel eye bolts. Are people using that type in their planes? They are kind of scarey looking to me. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:37 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solid wire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle. First, the solid wire experimenting: I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. The design of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the last week - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and was easy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. I just happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around as well. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is pretty straightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) for bending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod, ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven into a block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assemblies to test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts were much better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, I would get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistant results). Overall I was pretty pleased with the finished product (for an amateur) - looks good, and feels strong. Second, the homemade turnbuckle: My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was a couple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzer biplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size and load carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple of strips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it was possible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod in place). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricated from a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which I ground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portion of the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machine screw). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6 of a turn (or 60) in order to position the wrench for the next "crank", but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench, since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tight the way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rod instead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safety wire, to prevent the tension from releasing. I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, and tightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked! Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1833& PlaneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper Note that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with no special equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and a bench vise. Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemade turnbuckles) I would suggest doing some physical testing to determine the actual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Bill, On your home made turn buckle, why not place a nut in the middle and have it soledered / brazed. Or perhaps even loctite (680) to keep it form rotating. Alternatively two small nuts "jammed" It is then easily adjustable with a "hex" in the middle my 2 cents Hans -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Sent: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 9:36 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solid wire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle. First, the solid wire experimenting: I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. The design of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the last week - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and was easy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. I just happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around as well. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is pretty straightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) for bending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod, ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven into a block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assemblies to test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts were much better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, I would get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistant results). OverallI was pretty pleased with the finished product (for an amateur) - looks good, and feels strong. Second, the homemade turnbuckle: My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was a couple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzer biplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size and load carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple of strips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it was possible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod in place). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricated from a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which I ground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portion of the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machine screw). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6 of a turn (or 60)in order to position the wrench for the next "crank", but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench, since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tight the way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rod instead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safety wire, to prevent the tension from releasing. I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, and tightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked! Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1833&PlaneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper Note that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with no special equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and a bench vise. Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemade turnbuckles) Iwould suggest doing some physical testing to determine the actual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Now, there's a good idea. Good thinking, Hans. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hvandervoo(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Bill, On your home made turn buckle, why not place a nut in the middle and have it soledered / brazed. Or perhaps even loctite (680) to keep it form rotating. Alternatively two small nuts "jammed" It is then easily adjustable with a "hex" in the middle my 2 cents Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Take off roll
From: outofthebox50(at)YAHOO.COM
Date: Mar 31, 2008
The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week from some of the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some videos on youtube and it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you guys with a flying Piet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying solo? I was wondering what a more realistic number might be. Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Take off roll
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I can usually get off the ground in about 400 feet. 150 feet might be possible with a 30 knot wind down the runway. Getting off the ground is not a problem with a Pietenpol. The problem comes when trying to climb over 120 foot trees at the end of the runway (nobody ever told the trees in North Carolina that they are only supposed to be 50 feet tall). On a hot day, my rate of climb with a passenger is about 150 fpm. Assuming that it is moving forward at 50 mph (73 feet per second), and assuming I get off the ground after a 400 foot roll, that means I've got a little under 1 minute to climb high enough to get over the trees at the end of the runway. To be generous, let's say the trees are only 100 feet tall, so now I've got 40 seconds of flying time to get over the trees. In that 40 seconds I will travel 40 x 73 or 2,920 feet. Problem is, the runway is only 2500 feet long and I've already used 400 feet of it before getting off the ground. Solving the problem another way, if I take 400 feet to get off the ground and then travel at 73 feet per second while climbing at 150 fpm for the remaining 2100 feet of runway, I will be 71.92 feet high at the end of the runway, or will impact the trees 28 feet below the treetop. Hence my decision to not carry passengers out of my home field in the Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50(at)YAHOO.COM Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week from some of the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some videos on youtube and it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you guys with a flying Piet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying solo? I was wondering what a more realistic number might be. Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: "moth" wing tank
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Hello, For a long time, I've been thinking of "bumping" up the top of my wing tank because I'd like to get an extra hour of fuel, so I'm looking for around four, maybe five more gallons. It's really the only option I have since I'm using a Ford and can't get the carb low enough for a nose tank. I'm thinking that if it wouldn't be too noticible on the ground since it seems as if it only needs to come up a couple of inches. I just can't figure the math though, if I generally follow the top contour of the wing, and go almost to each side with the "bump" can anyone estimate how high the highest spot would need to go to get about five more gallons? My best guess is about 2.5 inches. Also, it seems like it would make fueling easier if the cap was to one side, but then I thought it might want to slosh out more in a bank than if it was centered. Any thoughts or experience on this too? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Subject: "moth" wing tank
A US gallon is 231 cubic inches. If you know the profile you want, and can find the area of the airfoil-like shape and find your volume. With tools l ike google sketchup you could have the exact tankage in a matter of minutes ....! Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "moth" wing tank Hello, For a long time, I've been thinking of "bumping" up the top of my wing tank because I'd like to get an extra hour of fuel, so I'm looking for around f our, maybe five more gallons. It's really the only option I have since I'm using a Ford and can't get the carb low enough for a nose tank. I'm thinking that if it wouldn't be too noticible on the ground since it se ems as if it only needs to come up a couple of inches. I just can't figure the math though, if I generally follow the top contour of the wing, and go almost to each side with the "bump" can anyone estimate how high the highest spot would need to go to get about five more gallons? My best guess is about 2.5 inches. Also, it seems like it would make fueling easier if the cap was to one side , but then I thought it might want to slosh out more in a bank than if it w as centered. Any thoughts or experience on this too? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: covering wing roots made inexpensive
An easy place to get a piece of aluminum long enough to make it wrap from front to back is a piece of facia metal at your local home depot or lowes. Just cut off the 90 degree part and you have a 12 ft piece of 2 beaded aluminum. Then to keep from using more than about 6 screws per side ( bottom only)... use a 2-3inch machine screw and a nut plate ,....... look at an old piper i think they use this style. I'll try to get a pic on here, its hard to explain in words. Shad --------------------------------- No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "moth" wing tank
I'm thinking the same thing, maybe do it with a Riblett shape for extra (.001 lb, lol) lift. Ryan Douwe Blumberg wrote: Hello, For a long time, I've been thinking of "bumping" up the top of my wing tank because I'd like to get an extra hour of fuel, so I'm looking for around four, maybe five more gallons. It's really the only option I have since I'm using a Ford and can't get the carb low enough for a nose tank. I'm thinking that if it wouldn't be too noticible on the ground since it seems as if it only needs to come up a couple of inches. I just can't figure the math though, if I generally follow the top contour of the wing, and go almost to each side with the "bump" can anyone estimate how high the highest spot would need to go to get about five more gallons? My best guess is about 2.5 inches. Also, it seems like it would make fueling easier if the cap was to one side, but then I thought it might want to slosh out more in a bank than if it was centered. Any thoughts or experience on this too? Douwe --------------------------------- Special deal for Yahoo! users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Take off roll
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Jack, what motor are you using, and do you have any idea of your rate of climb flying solo? Now let me see if I have the formula right? My runway is 600 ft. 400 ft to get off and another 200 ft to clear the 5 ft fence at the end. At the 600 ft mark, I should be at 6.8 ft agl, but does that 150 fpm acount for the downward thrust from the human pucker factor, or since the opening of the cockpit is on top, does the vacume in the seat actually draw air in from above and create added lift? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:01:17 To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll I can usually get off the ground in about 400 feet. 150 feet might be possible with a 30 knot wind down the runway. Getting off the ground is not a problem with a Pietenpol. The problem comes when trying to climb over 120 foot trees at the end of the runway (nobody ever told the trees in North Carolina that they are only supposed to be 50 feet tall). On a hot day, my rate of climb with a passenger is about 150 fpm. Assuming that it is moving forward at 50 mph (73 feet per second), and assuming I get off the ground after a 400 foot roll, that means I've got a little under 1 minute to climb high enough to get over the trees at the end of the runway. To be generous, let's say the trees are only 100 feet tall, so now I've got 40 seconds of flying time to get over the trees. In that 40 seconds I will travel 40 x 73 or 2,920 feet. Problem is, the runway is only 2500 feet long and I've already used 400 feet of it before getting off the ground. Solving the problem another way, if I take 400 feet to get off the ground and then travel at 73 feet per second while climbing at 150 fpm for the remaining 2100 feet of runway, I will be 71.92 feet high at the end of the runway, or will impact the trees 28 feet below the treetop. Hence my decision to not carry passengers out of my home field in the Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50(at)YAHOO.COM Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week from some of the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some videos on youtube and it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you guys with a flying Piet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying solo? I was wondering what a more realistic number might be. Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: "moth" wing tank
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Not sure about a moth tank, but have been thinking about doing something else different. My leading edge of my center section is mostly polished aluminum now, and the top of the center section looks good in wood. Have no doubt the aluminum is fine without covering, but anyone flying a piet that doesn't have the center section covered with fabric? It has so many screws it seems like it would be well attached, and I would like to be able to remove the tank without recovering the center section. Concerns are .. is the fairly thin plywood strong enough without the fabric covering, and what would have decent UV protection, as the varnish on it is probably not enough to cut it. Any thoughts? My tank is only 5.5 gallons, the main tank is about 15, which is more than I will want to use without taking a break anyway. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174033#174033 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: F-22
Date: Mar 31, 2008
A Pietenpol's big brother. This F-22 was just restored at our airpark in Florida and is awaiting FAA approval. 20+ years in restoration. You can eat off this airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Take off roll
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Using an A-65, operating at about 1000 lbs, from a 900' msl grass field, with a 72 X 42 prop in light winds the take-off roll is about 350 - 450 feet. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: <outofthebox50(at)YAHOO.COM> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll > > The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week > from some of the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some > videos on youtube and it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you > guys with a flying Piet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying > solo? I was wondering what a more realistic number might be. > > Thanks, Jeremy > DFW, TX > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BScott116(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 31, 2008
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire? In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Now, there's a good idea. Good thinking, Hans. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of hvandervoo(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Bill, On your home made turn buckle, why not place a nut in the middle and have it soledered / brazed. Or perhaps even loctite (680) to keep it form rotating. Alternatively two small nuts "jammed" It is then easily adjustable with a "hex" in the middle my 2 cents Hans **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Hardwire & Turnbuckles
These are Tiger Moth ones used on John Howroyd's Piet in Victoria, BC, Canada. There's holes in the " nut " to stick a rod in and turn. You can just barely see it above the formed sheet metal bracket. This plane is the oldest continuously registered aircraft in Canada. John's Dad built it in 1932 and John rebuilt it a number of years ago. Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 31, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: "moth" wing tank
Lokk at the rear cabane and you'll see that the cross member joining them is a tube, not any kind of "spar". The same is joining the front cabanes. It's under that cover plate. The tank is one unit with an indentation for the tube. Look closely and you'll see the little U tube allowing drainage from the front part int the main. As for taking a break, my thinking is that I will be going to places out here in the wild west where there won't be the fuel I want. Having enough to get back will sometimes be important. Clif Beryl Markham flew her Moth from Africa to England. Maybe I could visit my ancestral home. :-) ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: "moth" wing tank > > Not sure about a moth tank, > My tank is only 5.5 gallons, the main tank > is about 15, which is more than I will want to use without taking a break > anyway. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174033#174033 > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 6:21 PM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: F-22
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
What beautiful Fairchild! I've got a few hours in a Fairchild 22 with a Warner radial engine on it. Flies like a big heavy Pietenpol. Worst brake system of any plane I've ever flown. Thanks for the pictures Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of T White Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: F-22 A Pietenpol's big brother. This F-22 was just restored at our airpark in Florida and is awaiting FAA approval. 20+ years in restoration. You can eat off this airplane. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Take off roll
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I have an A65 Continental with a Sensenich 72 x 42 prop. Solo on a 72 F day I get about 350 - 400 fpm. I have a VSI in the panel so I generally know pretty much how poorly it climbs. An interesting characteristic of slow climbing planes like a Pietenpol or a J-3 Cub is that on takeoff, you get a decent climb right after takeoff up to the point where you climb out of ground effect (about one wingspan off the ground). At that point it always seems to "sag" and even lose a little altitude before resuming the climb at a slower rate. This can be very disheartening when you look down the field and see that the trees are higher than you are, and you feel it sinking a bit. This is exxagerated at my home field because the runway slopes downhill so the ground is dropping away, and taking ground effect with it. I remember flying it to Brodhead in '05. Climbing out from Valparaiso, Indiana, behind Mike Cuy, it was hot and I was heavily loaded with fuel and camping gear. We took off to the north, heading right over the town and a half mile from the airport I was still so low I had to dodge a church steeple. Jack Phillips Ready to fly it to Brodhead again -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll Jack, what motor are you using, and do you have any idea of your rate of climb flying solo? Now let me see if I have the formula right? My runway is 600 ft. 400 ft to get off and another 200 ft to clear the 5 ft fence at the end. At the 600 ft mark, I should be at 6.8 ft agl, but does that 150 fpm acount for the downward thrust from the human pucker factor, or since the opening of the cockpit is on top, does the vacume in the seat actually draw air in from above and create added lift? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:01:17 To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll I can usually get off the ground in about 400 feet. 150 feet might be possible with a 30 knot wind down the runway. Getting off the ground is not a problem with a Pietenpol. The problem comes when trying to climb over 120 foot trees at the end of the runway (nobody ever told the trees in North Carolina that they are only supposed to be 50 feet tall). On a hot day, my rate of climb with a passenger is about 150 fpm. Assuming that it is moving forward at 50 mph (73 feet per second), and assuming I get off the ground after a 400 foot roll, that means I've got a little under 1 minute to climb high enough to get over the trees at the end of the runway. To be generous, let's say the trees are only 100 feet tall, so now I've got 40 seconds of flying time to get over the trees. In that 40 seconds I will travel 40 x 73 or 2,920 feet. Problem is, the runway is only 2500 feet long and I've already used 400 feet of it before getting off the ground. Solving the problem another way, if I take 400 feet to get off the ground and then travel at 73 feet per second while climbing at 150 fpm for the remaining 2100 feet of runway, I will be 71.92 feet high at the end of the runway, or will impact the trees 28 feet below the treetop. Hence my decision to not carry passengers out of my home field in the Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50(at)YAHOO.COM Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week from some of the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some videos on youtube and it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you guys with a flying Piet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying solo? I was wondering what a more realistic number might be. Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Jack's story about our poor rates of climb on a very hot July day in 2005 out of Porter County Airport in Valparaiso, Indiana are not exaggerated. In this photo we took off fully fueled and loaded northbound and thank God we had an expanse of open airport property over which to attempt to climb and turn westbound toward Chicago. The little red dot with Valparaiso not only had many fine old church steeples but an array of newly planted cell phone and other towers that we were gingerly banking to avoid. By Chicago we had a good 500 feet agl underneath us:) (it felt like that at times) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Which Locktite to use?
Gentlemen, My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there is not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite product would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need recommendations from some experts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross? Boyce **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Which Locktite to use?
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Dan are you threading the bolts into the hub? I guess I don't understand your question. If you are threading the prop bolts from the face of the prop plate through the prop and into threaded holes on your engine flange, you could drill the heads of the bolts and safety wire all the prop bolts. That would give you a nice visual check for security before each flight. With loctite, you would never know if one came loose without using a torquewrench. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use? Gentlemen, My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there is not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite product would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need recommendations from some experts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol hom00030000000001> . _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2008
BScott, Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the turnbuckle, but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, since the adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to sticking an allen key inside the fitting. I've attached an image to help illustrate. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BScott116(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire? In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Try a JATO unit? Seriously, The main thing would be reduce drag and add power without adding weight. Never under-estimate the drag of a Pietenpol - it is a flying sea-anchor. The Pietenpol airfoil seems to have the remarkable combination of low-lift / high drag. The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and is reported to have much improved performance. More power is always a good thing, but it takes a lot of power to make much impact on all that drag. There are a number of Pietenpols flying with 100 or even 115 hp engines. I have not flown one of them - every Piet I've flown has had a 65 Continental on the nose, and they've all flown about like mine. Perhaps some of the pilots with 100 hp + on their Piets can comment on the climb rates they get. Remember, when you say "500-600 fpm at gross" you are asking for a 400% improvement. That's like me asking how to change my RV-4 from its 2000 fpm climb rate to an 8,000 fpm climb. It is too much to ask. Jack Phillips "The Pietenpol is Slow, but the Sky is Patient" _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross? Boyce _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol hom00030000000001> . _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Which Locktite to use?
What he said... Unless you're capable of drilling the bolt heads yourself with reasonable accuracy, I might be inclined to buy them commercially from somebody like Skybolt or Aircraft Spruce. They're not expensive. In my ignorance, I thought these bolts were required to have some kind of positive fastening system. Does Locktite count? These four bolts are probably subject to more harsh vibration than any other fastener on the plane. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> >Sent: Apr 1, 2008 8:35 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use? > >Dan are you threading the bolts into the hub? I guess I don't >understand your question. If you are threading the prop bolts from the >face of the prop plate through the prop and into threaded holes on your >engine flange, you could drill the heads of the bolts and safety wire >all the prop bolts. That would give you a nice visual check for >security before each flight. With loctite, you would never know if one >came loose without using a torquewrench. > > > >Jack Phillips > >NX899JP > > > > _____ > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of >HelsperSew(at)aol.com >Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:19 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use? > > > >Gentlemen, > > > >My prop hub will hang on to the Ford A engine by only 4 bolts and there >is not enough room on the back side for any nut at all. Which Locktite >product would you use to make sure those bolts never got loose? I need >recommendations from some experts. > > > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > > > _____ > >Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home ><http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol >hom00030000000001> . > > > > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Bell" <rbell(at)hpavet.com>
Subject: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Increase the power to weight ratio. That means you must increase power or decrease weight. Power gives you climb performance. Drag reduction gives you speed. Ron Bell Mechanicsville, VA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross? Boyce _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid= aolhom0 0030000000001> . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Which Locktite to use?
Jack, The engine flange (which is actually the transmission attach flange on the Ford A) has only 4 threaded holes 7/16" dia. available to attach my continental-style prop hub that I got from Ken Perkins. This engine flange has no clearance to speak of between it and the crankcase. The six prop hold-on bolts do not line-up at all with these four available engine flange holes. (http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=hub_an1-012s.jpg&PhotoID=815 ) In this photo you can see the four bolts that attach this hub to the engine flange (black socket head) that will be recessed into this prop flange when tight. There is no room to get any safety wire on the heads of these four socket head bolts either. Ken Perkins says to use Locktite but I need to know which kind I can depend on. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Just a comment here - if you are talking about brazing or welding the tensioning nut, keep in mind that welding or brazing will destroy the heat treatment of the bolt and greatly reduce its strength. I don't think I would want to do that. A better solution would be to use a reduced diameter nut (like an MS21042) as a jam nut against this one. That would still leave the nut available for tensioning (the MS21042 is small enough that it won't interfere with putting a wrench on the hex nut). Just as an aside, I really like the MS21042 nuts. They weigh less than half what a standard AN365 locknut weighs, they are high strength nuts and they are reduced in height as well as diameter, so you can often use a bolt one grip length size less, again saving weight. Their only drawback is cost - about 10 cents more than an AN365. They also are all metal so can be used as locknuts in high heat applications. They were standard fasteners used nearly everywhere on the F-16, back in the days of my youth when I was working as a junior engineer at General Dynamics. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:44 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles BScott, Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the turnbuckle, but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, since the adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to sticking an allen key inside the fitting. I've attached an image to help illustrate. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BScott116(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire? In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
So then your increase in power has to more than offset the increase in weight associated with the power change. Hmmmm. Maybe a hopped up A-65? So what can be done to make the A-65 have more power? Carb jetting, more compression, timing, tuned exhaust? How much does increasing compression affect hand propping difficulty? Just sorta thinking out loud guys. BTW, if anyone is near Camden SC there's a guy advertising two Continental A-65's in the Carolina Trader for $500.00. One is disassembled, the other is together. Boyce **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Among other useful comments, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Franks) and > is reported to have much improved performance. > Has this been mentioned here before? If so, I missed it. Which Riblett airfoil? He's done a lot of them. Thanks. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Which Locktite to use?
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Ah, now I understand the problem. And you won't even be able to see these bolts without removing the prop. Again, I don't like trusting Loctite for such a high-vibration, critical task, but without changing the design of the hub I don't see any other option. Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use? Jack, The engine flange (which is actually the transmission attach flange on the Ford A) has only 4 threaded holes 7/16" dia. available to attach my continental-style prop hub that I got from Ken Perkins. This engine flange has no clearance to speak of between it and the crankcase. The six prop hold-on bolts do not line-up at all with these four available engine flange holes. hub_an1-012s.jpg <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=hub_an1-012 s.jpg&PhotoID=815> In this photo you can see the four bolts that attach this hub to the engine flange (black socket head) that will be recessed into this prop flange when tight. There is no room to get any safety wire on the heads of these four socket head bolts either. Ken Perkins says to use Locktite but I need to know which kind I can depend on. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. _____ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aol hom00030000000001> . _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
There's been a lot of discussion on the list in the last year about this airfoil. I don't have the numbers, but you should be absle to search the archives and find it. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Among other useful comments, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and > is reported to have much improved performance. > Has this been mentioned here before? If so, I missed it. Which Riblett airfoil? He's done a lot of them. Thanks. Owen _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Hey Boyce, do you happen to have the number on those A65s? Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:26:19 To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana So then your increase in power has to more than= offset the increase in weight associated with the power change. Hmmmm. Maybe= a hopped up A-65? So what can be done to make the A-65 have more power? Carb jetting, more compression, timing, tuned exhaust? How much does increasing compression affect hand propping difficulty? Just sorta thinking out loud gu= ys. BTW, if anyone is near Camden SC there's a guy advertising two Continental A-65's in the Carolina Trader for $500.00. One is disassembled, the other is= together. Boyce ---------------- Create a Home T= heater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home <http://home.aol. com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
I believe its called the 612 airfoil and you can get info on it from Bill Rewey. A full size plan for it is also available, just search the archives for 612 or Riblett. If my completed wings weren't hanging in my garage I would build to the 612 airfoil. Rick On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Phillips, Jack < Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> wrote: > Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> > > There's been a lot of discussion on the list in the last year about this > airfoil. I don't have the numbers, but you should be absle to search > the archives and find it. > > Jack Phillips > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen > Davies > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:49 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana > > > Among other useful comments, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > > > The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and > > > is reported to have much improved performance. > > > Has this been mentioned here before? If so, I missed it. Which Riblett > airfoil? He's done a lot of them. > > Thanks. > > Owen > > > _________________________________________________ > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - > Norsk - Portuguese > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Here ya go, don't have a name. Link is to a picture.... 803 438 9799 _The Carolina Trader - Pay When You Sell - Advertise Free_ (http://www.carolinatrader.com/default1.htm) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Hello fellas: My name is Bob Butsch and I'm in Indianapolis. Just started working on my Air Camper after having had the plans for many (too many) years. I have lofted the Harry Riblett airfoil a couple of you have been talking about. It is the Riblett GA30U-612. You won't find it on the internet. I tried about every site I could think of. Perhaps you will have more luck. I bought a packet of info from Bill Rewey which had the ordinates for the airfoil. I also purchased Harry's book on his GA airfoils and the GA30U-612 is NOT in it. Bill Rewey changed the aft upper ordinates a bit because the trailing edge was very sharp. I left it alone since I will be using commercial aluminum trailing edge anyhow. I have been in contact with Lowell Frank and he says he likes it very much. You can contact Bill Rewey at 3339 Mound View Road Verona, WI 53593. He does not have an email address and I don't have a phone number for him. I'm in the process of making my rib jigs and have designed a simple steaming chamber I hope to finish and test today. I also just received Mike Cuy's video recently and highly recommend it to any new builder. I also recently reserved my N number. It is NX45BB. It was the last two digit number available with a suffix of BB. I also went through all the "X" business and finally just called the FAA to get the skinny. The info you have been reading is quite correct. At the time of receiving your airworthiness certificate, the FAA rep will O.K. the use of "X" in the number. I must say that I have been reading all the posts for quite some time now and have learned much. Every time I think I have something to contribute, someone else always seems to come back with what I was going to say before I get a chance. That's O.K. I won't have to type as much. Later. Bob Butsch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
OK, the link to the picture didn't work...probably because it is password protected. You have to subscribe to read the ads.... **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Phillips, Jack wrote: > There's been a lot of discussion on the list in the last year about this > airfoil. I don't have the numbers, but you should be absle to search > the archives and find it. Will do. Thanks. It probably predates my rejoining the list. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 01, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Thanks all. Given that my Piet thus far consists of only five ribs, I may make the change. Now to look up the previous messages on the list and see just what they have to say about how much the new airfoil improves performance. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
MessageSurplus power gives you climb rate. If all of your power is used to overcome drag, you get no climb. Reduce the drag, without increasing power, and you will have more available climb rate. On a 1100# gross Piet, each horsepower not used to overcome drag will give you 1/2 foot per second (30 fpm) of climb. (one Hp = 550 ft-lbf/sec, or 33,000 ft-lbf/min) Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Bell To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:05 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Increase the power to weight ratio. That means you must increase power or decrease weight. Power gives you climb performance. Drag reduction gives you speed. Ron Bell Mechanicsville, VA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross? Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Steaming Chamber
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Bob, You are not far behind me. I have 4 ribs built + the tail section. Speaking of steaming chambers, though, I found that steaming was not necessary. I built a simple "soaking chamber" out of 3" pvc with a pvc cap on one end (actually, it was what I kept my fishing pole in). Just put in as many cap strips as you can fit, or want, and fill with cold water. Let soak overnight, and the strips are ready for forming. I can soak capstrips much faster than I can build ribs! Only the lower 2/3's of the strip needs to be formed, so if the strips stick out at the top, just wrap some wire around them and tie to the pvc - that will keep them from floating. Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (+4 ribs down) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Butsch Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Hello fellas: My name is Bob Butsch and I'm in Indianapolis. Just started working on my Air Camper after having had the plans for many (too many) years. I have lofted the Harry Riblett airfoil a couple of you have been talking about. It is the Riblett GA30U-612. You won't find it on the internet. I tried about every site I could think of. Perhaps you will have more luck. I bought a packet of info from Bill Rewey which had the ordinates for the airfoil. I also purchased Harry's book on his GA airfoils and the GA30U-612 is NOT in it. Bill Rewey changed the aft upper ordinates a bit because the trailing edge was very sharp. I left it alone since I will be using commercial aluminum trailing edge anyhow. I have been in contact with Lowell Frank and he says he likes it very much. You can contact Bill Rewey at 3339 Mound View Road Verona, WI 53593. He does not have an email address and I don't have a phone number for him. I'm in the process of making my rib jigs and have designed a simple steaming chamber I hope to finish and test today. I also just received Mike Cuy's video recently and highly recommend it to any new builder. I also recently reserved my N number. It is NX45BB. It was the last two digit number available with a suffix of BB. I also went through all the "X" business and finally just called the FAA to get the skinny. The info you have been reading is quite correct. At the time of receiving your airworthiness certificate, the FAA rep will O.K. the use of "X" in the number. I must say that I have been reading all the posts for quite some time now and have learned much. Every time I think I have something to contribute, someone else always seems to come back with what I was going to say before I get a chance. That's O.K. I won't have to type as much. Later. Bob Butsch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Good idea, i think that would work fine -- probably take 6 different sizes and be lighter. On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:26 PM, BScott116(at)aol.com wrote: > Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire? > > In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com > writes: > > > > Now, there's a good idea. > Good thinking, Hans. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > hvandervoo(at)aol.com > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 2:09 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles > > > Bill, > > On your home made turn buckle, why not place a nut in the middle and > have it > soledered / brazed. > Or perhaps even loctite (680) to keep it form rotating. > > Alternatively two small nuts "jammed" > > It is then easily adjustable with a "hex" in the middle > > > my 2 ======================= > e the es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > nbsp; - List Contribution Web > Site ; ======================== > > > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. > > Thomas Bernie tsbe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2008
They are pain. Yours is a superior design design. On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > Tom, > > Nice photo. > Your turnbuckles look very sililar to the Flitzer-style fittings. > How are they for adjusting? (pain in the butt, or just as annoying > as regular turnbuckles). Of course, the adjusting should be a one- > time thing, so as long as they work, the extra fiddling (if any) > should be inconsequential, in the long run. > Will you need to safety wire the assembly, or does the jam-nut do > that for you? > Thanks for sharing. > > Bill C. > > Thomas Bernie tsbe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Bill, nice drawing - is that Inventor? Kirk On Apr 1, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Bill Church wrote: > BScott, > Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the > turnbuckle, but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, > since the adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to > sticking an allen key inside the fitting. I've attached an image to > help illustrate. > > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BScott116(at)aol.com > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:26 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles > > Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire? > > In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon Bowen" <gbowen(at)ptialaska.net>
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
Date: Apr 01, 2008
i have 108hp o-235 lyco but Aeronca wing, sorry no comparison with Piete's undercut wing. N-1033B springs off the ground at all loads. Realize Bernard didn't have the benefit of the NACA research done in the late 30's and 40's., think he'd be proud to have tried todays modern engines and flat bottomed wings. No harm in getting the best from this fine flying machine. Gordon ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:48 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Try a JATO unit? Seriously, The main thing would be reduce drag and add power without adding weight. Never under-estimate the drag of a Pietenpol - it is a flying sea-anchor. The Pietenpol airfoil seems to have the remarkable combination of low-lift / high drag. The Riblett airfoil has been flown on a Pietenpol (Lowell Frank's) and is reported to have much improved performance. More power is always a good thing, but it takes a lot of power to make much impact on all that drag. There are a number of Pietenpols flying with 100 or even 115 hp engines. I have not flown one of them - every Piet I've flown has had a 65 Continental on the nose, and they've all flown about like mine. Perhaps some of the pilots with 100 hp + on their Piets can comment on the climb rates they get. Remember, when you say "500-600 fpm at gross" you are asking for a 400% improvement. That's like me asking how to change my RV-4 from its 2000 fpm climb rate to an 8,000 fpm climb. It is too much to ask. Jack Phillips "The Pietenpol is Slow, but the Sky is Patient" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:27 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dodging church steeples in Indiana Given that the Piet is a "low and slow" airplane, what can be done to get the rate of climb in the 500-600 range at gross? Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List .com tronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Homemade Turnbuckles
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Kirk, It was created with SolidWorks. Very similar to Inventor. Very powerful and impressive CAD program. Here's another view, but with metallic finishes rather than colours (or colors). Bill _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kirk Huizenga Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles Bill, nice drawing - is that Inventor? Kirk ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Subject: Piet Pictures
Hey guys! And ladies! I'm working on an article about Brodhead for the Wisconsin Aviation Hall of Fame's quarterly magazine and need some pics of Piets attending the annual fly-in. Would like some air-to-air shots, if possible. BTW -- I'm not getting paid for this article...but will send copies of the finished, published article to anyone that can help me out. Please send jpgs -- need to be relatively high resolution. Say 300 dpi at 3x5 inches size. My e-mail is: _TBYH(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TBYH(at)aol.com) Meanwhile, I'm in the process of fastening the tail on the Piet...my wife came down to the basement the other day and shrieked, "My God! It really is an airplane!" Even she is a little impressed now... Many thanks for any pics you can send! Fred Beseler La Crosse, WI **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: "moth" wing tank
Date: Apr 01, 2008
Douwe One fairly simple way of doing this problem is to calculate how many sq. ft your tank is, then multiply by .625, times the height of the tank in inches. There are .625 gal in 1 sq. ft, one inch deep. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Douwe Blumberg To: pietenpolgroup Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "moth" wing tank Hello, For a long time, I've been thinking of "bumping" up the top of my wing tank because I'd like to get an extra hour of fuel, so I'm looking for around four, maybe five more gallons. It's really the only option I have since I'm using a Ford and can't get the carb low enough for a nose tank. I'm thinking that if it wouldn't be too noticible on the ground since it seems as if it only needs to come up a couple of inches. I just can't figure the math though, if I generally follow the top contour of the wing, and go almost to each side with the "bump" can anyone estimate how high the highest spot would need to go to get about five more gallons? My best guess is about 2.5 inches. Also, it seems like it would make fueling easier if the cap was to one side, but then I thought it might want to slosh out more in a bank than if it was centered. Any thoughts or experience on this too? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Ford hub
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Hey Dan, I've been stewing over the same thing with my ford hub. While there is not much room behind the hub, if there's enough to run about half and inch of the bolt through the back and then drill that end and run some safety wire around the backside of the hub. Something to bear in mind Dan. Before I went with the Ford, I interviewed everybody I could track down who had ever actually flown behind one. This amounted to about ten or twelve guys. In all these interviews, and all my reading, I've never heard of the four bolt hub coming off. A prop was completely lost from a Ford, but he was just bolting the prop to the four bolt hub directly, plus the FAA report stated that two of the bolts were found to be rusty where they had broken, leading to the conclusion that this plane had been flying around on two bolts for a while before the other two gave up the ghost. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BScott116(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Subject: Re: Dodging church steeples in Indiana
You can fuel inject a B ford for 100 HP. Lowell frank has one on his piet now. In a message dated 4/1/2008 8:29:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com writes: So then your increase in power has to more than offset the increase in weight associated with the power change. Hmmmm. Maybe a hopped up A-65? So what can be done to make the A-65 have more power? Carb jetting, more compression, timing, tuned exhaust? How much does increasing compression affect hand propping difficulty? Just sorta thinking out loud guys. BTW, if anyone is near Camden SC there's a guy advertising two Continental A-65's in the Carolina Trader for $500.00. One is disassembled, the other is together. Boyce ____________________________________ Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. _Watch the video on AOL Home_ (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom0003000000000 1) . (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Subject: Re: Ford hub- bolt safetying ideas
Douwe, Thanks for this suggestion. I am going to look at this situation from the very beginning again, and see the feasibility of your idea. I may be able to do a little grinding on the case to give just enough clearance to stick the bolts out the back to snake the safety wire in there. - we shall see. Anything like that would give more peace of mind. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Home Made Air Speed Indicator
Hello Group, I've attached some photos of a home made Vane Type Air Speed Indicator I made. The recent energy surrounding Bill's home made turnbuckles and hard wire brace wires motivated me to attempt to make an air speed indicator. You may recognize the design as I referanced an old Sport Aviation Article "Craftsman Corner" by Chuck Larsen. Although, not quite complete I'll share these photos hoping to create motivation to others. I need to add a couple of rivets, paint, and make some kind of sticker to indicate speed. Material: 0.078" diameter spring wire, 0.020" thick 6061 aluminum sheet, two little bolts, two little pop rivets (in place of the duct tape). I found that the spring wire I used required only one wrap to make a torsion spring with reasonable deflection. I made a couple of different size vanes to get the required deflection for "Pietenpol speed". The whole assembly took about two hours to build using simple tools (tin snips, hobby style 18" bench top break, vise, drill, straight edge, belt sander, dremel tool and the like...). I built it to the size and shape that looked appropriate for the job so I measured nothing. My intention is to hang this on the wing jury strut when I complete my Piet project as a decorative air speed indicator, while the pitot tube airspeed indicator is on the panel. This is a fun little project. John E Wisconsin You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Subject: Re: Home Made Air Speed Indicator
For those of us that would like to try our hand, do you have dimensions and detail drawing information from which to work? John In a message dated 4/2/2008 9:47:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, johnegan99(at)yahoo.com writes: Hello Group, I've attached some photos of a home made Vane Type Air Speed Indicator I made. The recent energy surrounding Bill's home made turnbuckles and hard wire brace wires motivated me to attempt to make an air speed indicator. You may recognize the design as I referanced an old Sport Aviation Article "Craftsman Corner" by Chuck Larsen. Although, not quite complete I'll share these photos hoping to create motivation to others. I need to add a couple of rivets, paint, and make some kind of sticker to indicate speed. Material: 0.078" diameter spring wire, 0.020" thick 6061 aluminum sheet, two little bolts, two little pop rivets (in place of the duct tape). I found that the spring wire I used required only one wrap to make a torsion spring with reasonable deflection. I made a couple of different size vanes to get the required deflection for "Pietenpol speed". The whole assembly took about two hours to build using simple tools (tin snips, hobby style 18" bench top break, vise, drill, straight edge, belt sander, dremel tool and the like...). I built it to the size and shape that looked appropriate for the job so I measured nothing. My intention is to hang this on the wing jury strut when I complete my Piet project as a decorative air speed indicator, while the pitot tube airspeed indicator is on the panel. This is a fun little project. John E Wisconsin **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Home Made Air Speed Indicator
Date: Apr 02, 2008
John (E), Nice little project. Let's see what activity your recent work will generate. I assume that's vintage duct tape you used there to hold things together. Is the entire unit made of .020" aluminum? Seems a bit thin. But if it works, it works. My main area of concern would be the top flange, where the spring is mounted - it may flex a bit, which would possibly throw things off a bit. Thanks for sharing. John (R), There were at least a couple of very helpful postings regarding these vane-type Air Speed Indicators in the last year: Here's a posting from last September: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31759 And here's a posting from last April (the "Craftsman's Corner" article referenced by John): http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=26014 These posts should give anyone enough info to make up their own vintage ASI. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Home Made Air Speed Indicator Hello Group, I've attached some photos of a home made Vane Type Air Speed Indicator I made. The recent energy surrounding Bill's home made turnbuckles and hard wire brace wires motivated me to attempt to make an air speed indicator. You may recognize the design as I referanced an old Sport Aviation Article "Craftsman Corner" by Chuck Larsen. Although, not quite complete I'll share these photos hoping to create motivation to others. I need to add a couple of rivets, paint, and make some kind of sticker to indicate speed. Material: 0.078" diameter spring wire, 0.020" thick 6061 aluminum sheet, two little bolts, two little pop rivets (in place of the duct tape). I found that the spring wire I used required only one wrap to make a torsion spring with reasonable deflection. I made a couple of different size vanes to get the required deflection for "Pietenpol speed". The whole assembly took about two hours to build using simple tools (tin snips, hobby style 18" bench top break, vise, drill, straight edge, belt sander, dremel tool and the like...). I built it to the size and shape that looked appropriate for the job so I measured nothing. My intention is to hang this on the wing jury strut when I complete my Piet project as a decorative air speed indicator, while the pitot tube airspeed indicator is on the panel. This is a fun little project. John E Wisconsin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Subject: Re: Home Made Air Speed Indicator
Thanks John In a message dated 4/2/2008 11:17:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes: John (E), Nice little project. Let's see what activity your recent work will generate. I assume that's vintage duct tape you used there to hold things together. Is the entire unit made of .020" aluminum? Seems a bit thin. But if it works, it works. My main area of concern would be the top flange, where the spring is mounted - it may flex a bit, which would possibly throw things off a bit. Thanks for sharing. John (R), There were at least a couple of very helpful postings regarding these vane-type Air Speed Indicators in the last year: Here's a posting from last September: _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31759_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=31759) And here's a posting from last April (the "Craftsman's Corner" article referenced by John): _http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=26014_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=26014) These posts should give anyone enough info to make up their own vintage ASI. Bill C. ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Egan Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:43 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Home Made Air Speed Indicator Hello Group, I've attached some photos of a home made Vane Type Air Speed Indicator I made. The recent energy surrounding Bill's home made turnbuckles and hard wire brace wires motivated me to attempt to make an air speed indicator. You may recognize the design as I referanced an old Sport Aviation Article "Craftsman Corner" by Chuck Larsen. Although, not quite complete I'll share these photos hoping to create motivation to others. I need to add a couple of rivets, paint, and make some kind of sticker to indicate speed. Material: 0.078" diameter spring wire, 0.020" thick 6061 aluminum sheet, two little bolts, two little pop rivets (in place of the duct tape). I found that the spring wire I used required only one wrap to make a torsion spring with reasonable deflection. I made a couple of different size vanes to get the required deflection for "Pietenpol speed". The whole assembly took about two hours to build using simple tools (tin snips, hobby style 18" bench top break, vise, drill, straight edge, belt sander, dremel tool and the like...). I built it to the size and shape that looked appropriate for the job so I measured nothing. My intention is to hang this on the wing jury strut when I complete my Piet project as a decorative air speed indicator, while the pitot tube airspeed indicator is on the panel. This is a fun little project. John E Wisconsin (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: alternative airfoils
Date: Apr 02, 2008
While I don't have the coordinates for the Riblett GA airfoil that Rob and others mention, there was an analysis done by Mike Shuck comparing that airfoil with the NACA 4415 and they are remarkably similar in turbulent flow regimes as well as profiles. The NACA 4415 coordinates are readily obtainable. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: alternative airfoils
Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > While I don't have the coordinates for the Riblett GA airfoil that Rob and others mention, there was an analysis done by Mike Shuck comparing that airfoil with the NACA 4415 and they are remarkably similar in turbulent flow regimes as well as profiles. ... Worth knowing! Many thanks. I really do need to learn more about airfoils. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
database? When I try to go there, all that comes up is a blank screen and the notation at the top, "coord_database.html (GIF Image, 1x1 pixels) - Mozilla Firefox." In fact, this is what happens when I click on most links from http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads.html. Using Firefox 2.0.0.13 under XP Pro, but the same thing happens with Internet Explorer. My best guess was that Kaspersky was filtering it all in order to shut out malware, but pausing the firewall, antivirus, privacy, etc., components had no effect. If someone else is having the problem, I will assume it is the website's problem. Otherwise, I had better dig deeper. Thanks. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Subject: Altimeter on Ebay
OK fellas, Here ya go- a nice vintage non-sensitive altimeter, Ebay # 270223509272. Only one day left. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
database?
Date: Apr 02, 2008
Owen, I can't say that I understood half of what you wrote, but when I clicked http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads.html I was forwarded to a website titled "UIUC Airfoil Data Site". Any links I clicked on that page seemed to work (including a link called "Airfoil Coordinates Database". I'm using Internet Explorer under XP Pro. On the other hand, maybe you're right about Kaspersky. who's Kaspersky? (you don't need to answer that). Start digging. BC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 1:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils database? When I try to go there, all that comes up is a blank screen and the notation at the top, "coord_database.html (GIF Image, 1x1 pixels) - Mozilla Firefox." In fact, this is what happens when I click on most links from http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads.html. Using Firefox 2.0.0.13 under XP Pro, but the same thing happens with Internet Explorer. My best guess was that Kaspersky was filtering it all in order to shut out malware, but pausing the firewall, antivirus, privacy, etc., components had no effect. If someone else is having the problem, I will assume it is the website's problem. Otherwise, I had better dig deeper. Thanks. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: N-number
Fellow Pieter's........ Yes....I have reserved my N-number on line today. My pietenpol is officially given its birth certificate (forth coming) from the FAA. It shall be known as NX63KH. As my father would say when I was a kid...put that in your pipe and smoke it! As for all you fat-body Pietenpols....Logo ideas are still in the process..... Ken H Fargo, ND Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP "Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to return, to break the surly bonds of earth and touch the face of God!" -da Vinci/John Gillespie Magee --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rib builder's best friend
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 02, 2008
A friend of mine recently discovered this cool little tool. Anybody that is spending time getting really sore fingers from pushing and holding the tiny little nails for gussets really needs to buy one of these! I got one and the thing is fantastic. I wish I would have had this when I built my Piet because the tiny nails were one of my biggest gripes. I'm messing around with Aeronca wings now and am really looking forward to building ribs just because of this tool. It works really slick. Just hold it in the palm of your and and pull back on the shaft to expose the magnet and touch the head of the nail then release the shaft and it pulls the nail up inside all "loaded" and ready for you to just push it in place for nailing. Once you get the hang of it, it is fantastic!! http://www.cherrytreetoys.com/prodinfo.asp?number=19-195&aitem=9&mitem=112&dept=284 Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174403#174403 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
database? Bill Church wrote: > > ...when I clicked _http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads.html_ I was > forwarded to a website titled "UIUC Airfoil Data Site". Any links I > clicked on that page seemed to work (including a link called "Airfoil > Coordinates Database".... > > On the other hand, maybe you're right about Kaspersky who's Kaspersky? > Thanks, Bill. Kaspersky is my firewall/antivirus/privacy package. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rib builder's best friend
I just used 1/4" staples, simple. Rick On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Don Emch wrote: > > A friend of mine recently discovered this cool little tool. Anybody that > is spending time getting really sore fingers from pushing and holding the > tiny little nails for gussets really needs to buy one of these! I got one > and the thing is fantastic. I wish I would have had this when I built my > Piet because the tiny nails were one of my biggest gripes. I'm messing > around with Aeronca wings now and am really looking forward to building ribs > just because of this tool. It works really slick. Just hold it in the palm > of your and and pull back on the shaft to expose the magnet and touch the > head of the nail then release the shaft and it pulls the nail up inside all > "loaded" and ready for you to just push it in place for nailing. Once you > get the hang of it, it is fantastic!! > > > http://www.cherrytreetoys.com/prodinfo.asp?number=19-195&aitem=9&mitem=112&dept=284 > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174403#174403 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: alternative airfoils
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Owen, I posted a spreadsheet on this list a couple of months ago giving the co-ordinates of the Riblett GA and Peitenpol sections. If you can't find it, I can send it to you. JohnW ---- Original Message ---- From: owen5819(at)comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative airfoils Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:55:29 -0400 > > >Oscar Zuniga wrote: > >> >> >> While I don't have the coordinates for the Riblett GA airfoil that >Rob and others mention, there was an analysis done by Mike Shuck >comparing that airfoil with the NACA 4415 and they are remarkably >similar in turbulent flow regimes as well as profiles. ... >Worth knowing! Many thanks. > >I really do need to learn more about airfoils. > >Owen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
datab
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2008
I get the first page of the web site but nothing on the database. Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174477#174477 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 02, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: alternative airfoils
johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au wrote: > I posted a spreadsheet on this list a couple of months ago giving the > co-ordinates of the Riblett GA and Peitenpol sections. > If you can't find it, I can send it to you. Found it. Many thanks. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
databa
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 02, 2008
I'm guessing the site is in a state of flux. The link that you referenced gives me a UofI Champaign-Urbana Aerospace engineer web page with the message that the page I was looking for was not found (404). Everything I try ends with out a positive result. Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174479#174479 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ric Ryburn" <ric(at)srclink.net>
Subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
databa
Date: Apr 03, 2008
For me, at this point, everything seems to work fine. Ric ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Is this a Pietenpol?
Date: Apr 02, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM The tail looks right but the fuselage is wider (side-by-side) and the wings seem a bit stubby. What is the consensus? RS Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, Alaska 907-230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Subject: Re: Brad driver/small nail holder
Don, I found a perfect solution for holding those pesky small nails. I used a wire stripper pliers, the ones with serrations on the nose end. The little nails fit into those serrations perfectly and the nail is held 90 degrees to the pliers so you can place it easily and drive it home with a small hammer. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol?
There's also no flying wires... ><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM > >The tail looks right but the fuselage is wider (side-by-side) and >the wings seem a bit stubby. What is the consensus? >RS > > >Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist >Anchorage, Alaska >907-230-9425 >KL2AN >Skype:rob.stapleton.jr >IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Is this a Pietenpol?
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this a Pietenpol?This plane was advertised for sale locally here in Maine. The fellow is looking for about 7000$ and as far as I know it is till available. I went to look at it a couple of years ago and it is a curious thing. I believe it is a side by side Scout if not a short fuse Piet that has been widened to allow a bench seat. The bench seat is not all that wide perhaps 30 inches and a tight fit for two if you are not the smallest of bodies. At the bottom of the instrument panel there is a strange structural tray/shelf about 6 inches deep runs right across from one side to the other. The cabanes are odd in that it appears they built the thing without a center section and just tipped the cabanes inwards to a central cluster that the wing roots connect to. As you can see by the video it is a close coupled twitchy thing more like a Baby Ace. If I recall correctly it is powered by a 65 hp Continental. Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 6:04 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is this a Pietenpol? There's also no flying wires... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM The tail looks right but the fuselage is wider (side-by-side) and the wings seem a bit stubby. What is the consensus? RS Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, Alaska 907-230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC airfoils
databa
From: "bhassel" <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Date: Apr 03, 2008
hmm...I tried this morning on a Linux system running Firefox 1.5.x and was able to see the database page (http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html). Bob Santa Fe, NM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174573#174573 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Is anyone else having problems with the UIUC
airfoils databa bhassel wrote: > hmm...I tried this morning on a Linux system running Firefox 1.5.x and was able to see the database page (http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html). Thanks, everyone. Looks like it must be a problem with my system, though one or two others have similar problems as well. I will keep trying to figure out what's wrong. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Is this a Pietenpol?
Date: Apr 03, 2008
The way to tell for sure is to turn it over on its back and see if it has the right "parts" ;o) The gent in the video calls it a Pietenpol so I guess it is. There is no holy line that defines when a modified Pietenpol is no longer a Pietenpol. However, here's something I wrote to Doc Mosher after I got my last issue of the BPA Newsletter: I'll tell you right from the start that the pictures and story about N3087W in the current newsletter are what triggered this email to you. N3087W is in the FAA Registry as a Grega GN-1 but it is called a "GN-1 Pietenpol" in the photo caption on the front page of the newsletter. I am a newbie in the Piet world, having only come to an interest and knowledge of the airplane a few years ago. Early into my learning about this wonderful airplane, I discerned the undercurrent regarding "false" Pietenpols... the GN-1 especially, but other "copies" (the St. Croix?) being frowned upon tremendously by some people in the camp. I educated myself about the GN-1, acquired a set of plans for it, and went through them intently. After that, I recognized the differences between the Pietenpol "Air Camper" and the Grega GN-1 "Aircamper". They are both wonderful, worthy, and handsome airplanes. Each has its distinctives but from more than a few feet away, those differences are indiscernible except to the extremely picky eye. I am NOT one who believes there is no legitimate place in the Pietenpol world for GN-1s or other variants of the Pietenpol. Not at all. I am, however, somewhat keen on educating people on the very distinctives that make these designs different, in the same way that every airplane nut loves to correctly identify airplanes at airports, in hangars, on the ramp, in magazines, flying overhead, or anywhere else that they occur. Mr. Grega was a clever man who made some very useful refinements and changes to Mr. Pietenpol's design to produce what he believed to be an improved design. He called his new airplane the Grega GN-1 and I believe we do a disservice to Mr. Grega by calling his airplane a Pietenpol, just as we do Mr. Nesmith a disservice by calling his Cougar a Tailwind or Mr. Puffer's Cozy a Vari-EZE. I won't harp on this and I harbor no ill will towards GN-1s or any other variant of the Pietenpol. I think the Grega drawings are a darn sight better than the Piet drawings (I'm an engineer and I learned to draft back in the T-square and triangle days, with pencils). I think Mr. Grega's insight into the Pietenpol design, and his admiration of it, led to some very useful and clever improvements. Just PLEASE don't call 87W a "GN-1 Pietenpol", OK? ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Riblett coordinates
I searched the archives and found a post that apparently had the Riblett airfoil coordinates attached as a spreadsheet. However, the archive message did not have any way to retrieve attachments that I could find. Is there a way to look at attachments in the archive? Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS ____ | ____ \8/ / \ BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:STINEMETZE, TOM TEL;WORK:620-245-2548 ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS(at)MCPCITY.COM N:STINEMETZE;TOM TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN. END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Riblett coordinates
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Tom, There is another format to view list postings, and attachments are viewable there. Go to the Pietenpol List Forum. Here's a link: <http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7> http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7 This is also handy for anyone out there that just receives the digest version of the list, since attachments are always stripped from the digest. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: May 24 - Old Kingsbury Spring Fly-in (AirFair 2008)
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
How about an Texas based Pietenpol gathering. May 24 - Old Kingsbury Spring Fly-in (AirFair 2008) http://www.vintageaviation.org/aerodrome/index.html Hans ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Newbie question
I have just gotten into the Air Camper bit . I have not yet purchased the plans . that will be next week or so. Where does everyone get their wood? Is Aircraft Spruce a good source? Is the "kit" Aircraft Spruce offers for about $1000 worth it? Does anyone have a list of materials? Thanks Milt Atkinson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Newbie question
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Milt, As I may be one of the newer members to the Piet group, and asked similar questions, the answer is "No," everyone is not getting wood from AS&S. I am building out of Poplar, and I just looked at a Piet last night that is built out of Doug Fir. There are several other possibilities, including Hemlock, and the main thing is that you educate yourself on suitable woods and grain patterns..then go shopping. I have found good Poplar at Lowe's, of all places! but I had to look at A LOT of boards. You will find lots of comments on alternate wood in the archives. Gary Boothe Cool, CA WW Conversion 90% done, Working on Tail Group (4 ribs down) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Atkinson Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question I have just gotten into the Air Camper bit . I have not yet purchased the plans . that will be next week or so. Where does everyone get their wood? Is Aircraft Spruce a good source? Is the "kit" Aircraft Spruce offers for about $1000 worth it? Does anyone have a list of materials? Thanks Milt Atkinson ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Newbie question
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2008
Milt I have no Idea concerning the value of the AS kit so I am un able to comment on that. My own exprience is that I decided to build in poplar for a number of reasons cost being only one of those reasons. My initial purchase of 4 poplar planks has lasted me through the Fuse construction at under 100.00 and have not found the need to purchase more. The plywood I bought from AS is another story at around 500.00 Types of wood you select and where you buy is a major variable and mostly an issue of preference For me its poplar from the hard wood lumber yard, great wood to work with John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:02:41 To: Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie question I have just gotten into the Air Camper bit I have not yet purchased the plans that will be next week or so. Where does everyone get their wood? Is Aircraft Spruce a good source? Is the kit Aircraft Spruce offers for about $1000 worth it? Does anyone have a list of materials? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Brad driver/small nail holder
Why not just get one of these??? http://www.amazon.com/Bynford-25mm-Gauge-Headless-Nailer/dp/B00081Q42E ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 4:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brad driver/small nail holder Don, I found a perfect solution for holding those pesky small nails. I used a wire stripper pliers, the ones with serrations on the nose end. The little nails fit into those serrations perfectly and the nail is held 90 degrees to the pliers so you can place it easily and drive it home with a small hammer. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 4/3/2008 6:36 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Brad driver/small nail holder
Date: Apr 03, 2008
Clif; What the heck are you suggesting? Mr. Pietenpol didn't have compressed air driven brad drivers, for Piet's sake! I think if you stooped to using a power stapler or brad driver you would be building an Ingersoll-Rand Air Crimper but for sure not a Pietenpol Air Camper! ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC (which has some air-driven staples in it!) San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marc Davis <marcs_listreading(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Old Growth Douglas Fir
Date: Apr 03, 2008
I found this on craigslist. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/mat/627640924.html It's not my listing. I just thought this list would be interested. Marc Davis _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr esh_getintouch_042008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 03, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Brad driver/small nail holder
> Oscar, Oscar, Oscar. Come on now! Let's not get > carried away! Ingersol-Rand Air Crimper. Oh that's > low! I'll have you know it's a Bynford! > > That's Bynford Air Crimper I'll have you know!! > > Hahahahahahahahaha..........a > >> >> >> Clif; >> >> What the heck are you suggesting? Mr. Pietenpol didn't have compressed >> air driven brad drivers, for Piet's sake! I think if you stooped to >> using >> a power stapler or brad driver you would be building an Ingersoll-Rand >> Air >> Crimper but for sure not a Pietenpol Air Camper! >> >> ;o) >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Air Camper NX41CC (which has some air-driven staples in it!) >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Newbie question
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 04, 2008
Hi Milt, The wood topic has come up many times. I think spruce is probably the best due to it's strength to weight ratio. What I have found with Aircraft Spruce is that you will be paying top dollar and it's not always what you would expect for your money. The other aspect of ordering from them (again, based on your location) is that you could be eaten alive by shipping. I found a place nearby that I periodically visit to get aircraft grade plywood, a little cheaper than Aircraft Spruce, and my gas is my only shipping expense. I'm in CT and found that Boulter Plywood in Boston has everything I need. They have 2" x 6" rough cut spruce boards that I am ripping and planing to the various dimensions I need. You have to grade your own wood, but in my opinion, I seem to be pickier than Aircraft Spruce and have some really great spruce that cost a LOT less than it would have if I had it ordered and shipped. Grading info... http://www.sportair.com/articles/3Aircraft%20Wood%20-%20Part%20One.html Another good resource is Advisory Circular 43.13 available in book or free download from FAA.gov at... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument Truth be told, the wood in the plane is not where the money goes. If you look at everything you will purchase to build the plane, the money you will save on wood costs is not that significant, especially if you select a wood that is heavier to save a few bucks. Some of the other woods will cause you to have built in weight that I think you will later regret. I am still fairly early in the process but have gathered a lot of information from this forum and weight is something to always be watchful of. You can bring this project in at as low as 595lbs. (Walt Evans) if you stick to the materials and design in the plans. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174770#174770 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 04, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie question
Milt: In deference to the numerous dissenting opinions you will hear expressed on this forum, my experience with the Aircraft Spruce Pietenpol wood kit has been very satisfactory. The kit is expensive (over $1,000) and the shipping certainly adds to that. Plus, the kit does not include any of the plywood or the rib materials which you will need to purchase separately. I later discovered that a nearby Mom and Pop airport at Hesston, KS had spruce for sale from his Moony Mite restoration business. He drives back East somewhere twice a year for new supplies and is willing to share at very reasonable prices. Here's their contact information. 11818 West US Highway 50, Halstead, KS 67056 http://www.wiebeaircraft.com Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS >I have just gotten into the Air Camper bit * I have not yet purchased the plans * that will be next week or so. >Where does everyone get their wood? Is Aircraft Spruce a good source? Is the kit Aircraft Spruce offers for about $1000 worth it? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: riblett
Date: Apr 04, 2008
If you guys want to investigate riblett designs, I think I can find his phone number and you can go directly to the source. There are two he is recommending for a Piet. Let me know and I'll try to find it. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: riblett
Date: Apr 04, 2008
From: "Arden Adamson" <aadamson(at)wnmdag.org>
Douwe, I'm building the 612 Riblett design ribs. I'd appreciate his phone number. Thanks. Arden Adamson Waupaca,WI ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Fri 4/4/2008 8:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: riblett If you guys want to investigate riblett designs, I think I can find his phone number and you can go directly to the source. There are two he is recommending for a Piet. Let me know and I'll try to find it. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Brad driver/small nail holder
Date: Apr 04, 2008
I used a small pair of needle nose pliers..... Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:03 PM Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Brad driver/small nail holder > Oscar, Oscar, Oscar. Come on now! Let's not get > carried away! Ingersol-Rand Air Crimper. Oh that's > low! I'll have you know it's a Bynford! > > That's Bynford Air Crimper I'll have you know!! > > Hahahahahahahahaha..........a > >> >> >> Clif; >> >> What the heck are you suggesting? Mr. Pietenpol didn't have compressed >> air driven brad drivers, for Piet's sake! I think if you stooped to

March 23, 2008 - April 04, 2008

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