Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gq
April 25, 2008 - May 19, 2008
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gq
April 25, 2008 - May 19, 2008
Tim in Bovey
http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
Agree with everyone here, big mistake to try a Corvair conversion without WW
manual (would also recommend his 601 Corvair manual, I have used a lot of
info from it in my Pietenpol install, its a lot like the Bingelis Firewall
Forward book for Corvair). By the way the guy that works with WW building
ready to install engines charges $8900 minus carb and intake. Still way
under a Rotax or Jabaru.
Rick
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Eric Williams wrote:
> The manual is definitely worth it no matter what route you choose. Here:
> http://www.flywithgus.com/page2.html
> is a guy (Gus) who used to work with Wynne and still does to some degree.
> Click on the "FlyCorvair Installs" button on his website for more info on
> engine help.
>
> There is another guy, Kevin, who used to be with WW and supposedly builds
> a real good Corvair. I'm sure Gus could work out the details if you don't
> want to tackle the job yourself.
>
> Eric
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:54:56 -0500
> From: miltatkinson(at)verizon.net
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a
> reasonable price. Is the "FlyCorvair" conversion manual for about $60 worth
> the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine
> into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building?
>
>
> Or
>
>
> Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary
> quality to make it a viable\reliable engine?
>
>
> Milt Atkinson
>
> (Dallas TX area)
>
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
Hey Tim,
Toothpick with a camshaft?......pretty good!
Village idiot..
Ken H.
Tim Willis wrote:
Milt,
All are giving you good advice, and their details are right, too, IMO, from what
I have read. Don't start a Corvair rebuild without the WW manual. However, the
core and the manual may just comprise your starting point for needed technique.
The WW Corvair manual states outright that you will also need the GM technical
manual on the Corvair engine, and gives the manual number. The GM technical manual
is tryly step-by-step, and still is not quite as explicit as might be needed
unless you are familiar with Corvair engines at the outset. WW also sells
videos that show how to do each of several portions of the selection, rebuild,
etc.
If you are the sort that picks your teeth with a camshaft, you may not need some
of this documentation, but it is all cheap relative to the cost of parts, doing
it wrong the first time, or a bad rebuild, with your butt on the line in the
air-- or worse, just barely ("sputtt") in the air.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Milt Atkinson
>Sent: Apr 25, 2008 1:54 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is it worth it?
>
>I have located a 64 Corvair engine in a salvage yard and bought it for a
>reasonable price. Is the "FlyCorvair" conversion manual for about $60 worth
>the money? Will it tell me from A to Z how to convert this salvaged engine
>into a viable\reliable engine for the Air Camper I plan on building?
>
>
>
>Or
>
>
>
>Should I ship the core off to someone who will rebuild it to the necessary
>quality to make it a viable\reliable engine?
>
>
>
>Milt Atkinson
>
>(Dallas TX area)
>
>
>
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it? probably not
Dad started with a 64 corvair, now every thing but the cam has been changed to
a 65-69. We rebuilt the 64 twice after the crank broke. Cause of crank failure:
detonation. Cause of detonation: leaking heads. (2nd rebuild was a burt piston,
leaking heads again, same heads as 1st rebuild) The 1965-1969 heads look
a little "beefier". Also the cylinders on the 1964 are only usable with 1964
heads. The 1965-1969 cylinders and heads I believe are all interchangable.
If you buy it get 65 or later heads and cylinders. Also get a good nitrided
crank, with generous radius on the journals. Feel free to ask about our misfortunes,
trials and tribulations with our corvair. After getting the 65 cylinders
and heads it runs like a top. Hope this helps.
Shad
NX92GB
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Flying Music
http://www.oscarbrand.com/
Direct from the source - and bloody expensive too!
Clif
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Music
>
>
> Hi all-
> Just trying to get in a flying state of mind. Sitting here in Northern
> Minnesota, it's nearly May, and we're expecting 11-15 inches of SNOW by
> tomorrow morning (third weekend out of the last 4 with more than a foot of
> snow) I dug out my Dad's Oscar Brand records about flying. And for those
> of you who fear I'm pirating music--if you find a legitimate source to buy
> these songs, let me know. You can sometimes find a collection with a
> couple of them, but not all.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
> http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Apr 26, 2008
Subject: more about harley rims
has anyone used 16" rims from a harley? Some of them have the 1" axle and I kinda
like the look with the smaller rim and bigger tire. I'm thinking they probably
weigh more though.
Tom B.
_____________________________________________________________
Looking for insurance? Click to compare and save big.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 2008
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Four New Email Lists At Matronics!!
Dear Listers,
I have added four new Lists to the Matronics line up today. These include the
following categories:
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All services are enabled and now available including Search, Browse, Digest, Archives,
Forums, Chat, etc., etc. etc...:
Citabria:
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Zenith601:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith601-list
Zenith640:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith640-list
Zenith701801:
http://www.matronics.com/navigator?zenith701801-list
To subscribe, go to the Matronics Email List Subscription Form:
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To check the new Lists out on the Matronics Forum go here:
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Enjoy the new Lists!! Don't forget me during the Fund Raiser! :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Fw: [flybabylist] Continental engines for sale, suitable
for Fly Baby
Date: Apr 26, 2008
Thought I would forward this from the flybaby site. Appears to be a
great deal for someone looking for an engine for their Piet.
Gene in Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: sgtairdog
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: [flybabylist] Continental engines for sale, suitable for Fly
Baby
The IA at the airport where I hang out has 4 Continentals for sale.
Below are the details...Anyone interested call Tom at (502)957-5159
or on line TJean24043(at)aol.com
Continental 65-8-F serial# 4688668 TSOH-0- completely disassembled.
This engine was in storage since 1947 and was removed from a J-3
Cub, parts show almost no wear, engine assembled using new rod bolts,
new bearings, new rings and gasket set. Intake spider and intakes
included, no accessories, New logs. $2,500
Continental 85-12-C Serial# 2577-6-12-C Original logs,
Total time 1494.4 TSOH "0"
This engine was disassembled and all parts checked. Reassembled
using new rod bolts, new rings, new bearings and gaskets. $2,500
Continental A-65-8T Serial# 4184768, estimated to have 2000 hrs.
since new.
TSOH "0" using standard reconditioned crankshaft, new rod and main
bearings, reconditioned cam and followers, 4 reconditioned NU-Chrome
cylinders, new standard pistons and rings, 8 new rod bolts and new
gasket set. Tapered shaft, New logs. $5,000
Continental A-65-8T Serial# 4238668, estimated to have 2000 hrs.
since new.
TSOH "0" using standard crankshaft and new rod and main bearings, 4
reconditioned NU-Chrome cylinders with new pistons and rings, all new
gaskets and 8 new rod bolts. Tapered shaft, New logs. $5,000
If interested give Tom a call or send him an e-mail. Engines are
located at the Blue Lick airport, 6 miles south of Louisville KY off
Interstate 65.
I've worked with Tom for several years and I have one of his engines
for my Fly Baby, In my opinion, he does good work.
Charlie Ennis
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Checked by AVG.
4/21/2008 4:23 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG FORSCOM" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Apr 26, 2008
Subject: Re: Flying Music
Just came back from the Flambeau night parade here in San Antonio. Wore Shorts
and was just a little hot after walking back to the car. Sure glad the rains Friday
night cooled it down to the mid 80s today.
Enjoy the change in seasons
Steve D
Just lurking
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Date: Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:53
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Music
>
> http://www.oscarbrand.com/
>
> Direct from the source - and bloody expensive too!
>
> Clif
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Music
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all-
> > Just trying to get in a flying state of mind. Sitting here in
> Northern
> > Minnesota, it's nearly May, and we're expecting 11-15 inches of
> SNOW by
> > tomorrow morning (third weekend out of the last 4 with more than
> a foot of
> > snow) I dug out my Dad's Oscar Brand records about flying. And
> for those
> > of you who fear I'm pirating music--if you find a legitimate
> source to buy
> > these songs, let me know. You can sometimes find a collection
> with a
> > couple of them, but not all.
> >
> > Tim in Bovey
> >
> > http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2008
http://venturay.com/engines.html
Anyone know anything about these guys?
They claim to build one pretty reasonable.
Personally I would go for the 125hp Franklin PZL.. and have a new engine, they
were going for about 7K, and are supposed to weigh same as an 0-200. Would be
nice to have some extra power for hot days. Your corvair is at least 40 yrs old,
and would have some amount of fatigue even if you built it exactly to specs.
http://www.franklinengines.com/4a.cfm
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179662#179662
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
Date: Apr 27, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Jim,
I believe this is out of business.
Owner and his wife had a fatal accident with their airplane about 6
months ago.
Regards
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: jimd <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 4:03 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is it worth it?
http://venturay.com/engines.html
Anyone know anything about these guys?
They claim to build one pretty reasonable.
Personally I would go for the 125hp Franklin PZL.. and have a new
engine, they
were going for about 7K, and are supposed to weigh same as an 0-200.
Would be
nice to have some extra power for hot days. Your corvair is at least 40
yrs old,
and would have some amount of fatigue even if you built it exactly to
specs.
http://www.franklinengines.com/4a.cfm
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179662#179662
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2008
For what its worth I called the Franklin motor numbrer a couple of times and got
the answering machine. After a few tries I sent an email and got no response
so I called and left a message along with my email address to no avail. I am
really interested in that engine and wii be needing one in 2 years. Which at the
present rate of reply I may get a response from them. For someone selling engines
I would a expeced some type of response
Are they still in business?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 14:03:46
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Is it worth it?
http://venturay.com/engines.html
Anyone know anything about these guys?
They claim to build one pretty reasonable.
Personally I would go for the 125hp Franklin PZL.. and have a new engine, they
were going for about 7K, and are supposed to weigh same as an 0-200. Would be
nice to have some extra power for hot days. Your corvair is at least 40 yrs old,
and would have some amount of fatigue even if you built it exactly to specs.
http://www.franklinengines.com/4a.cfm
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179662#179662
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hot rodding the Model A
From: "pflyboy" <nick_d_av8r(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 27, 2008
Is there any way to tell how much horsepower a Model A would need in order to swing
the recommended size prop at the recommended RPM at a much higher altitude
(maybe 8000 ft)? Or am I just nuts? Awaiting the flak...
Nick
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179718#179718
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
One rule of thumb is 3% HP loss per 1000ft so you lose about 24% at 8000 ft.
Doesn't leave a lot of power if you have two fat guys in a Piet. You could
solve the problem by being the first to turbo or supercharge a model A in an
aircraft.
Rick
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:04 PM, pflyboy wrote:
>
> Is there any way to tell how much horsepower a Model A would need in order
> to swing the recommended size prop at the recommended RPM at a much higher
> altitude (maybe 8000 ft)? Or am I just nuts? Awaiting the flak...
>
> Nick
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179718#179718
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/27/08
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Re Franklin PZL engines.
I emailed, Faxed & phoned them then sent a registered letter.
I then found out that they no longer exist.
A pity that such a glowing Web site has not been closed
Regards Graham now finished my first wing.
Checked by AVG.
27/04/2008 9:39 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: model A at altitude
Date: Apr 28, 2008
The strongest, reliably built Model A's seem to put out between 60 and
70hp on the ground.
The best thing one can possibly do is to BUILD IN LIGHTNESS at every
possible opportunity and leave out absolutely everything that is
optional.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/27/08
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2008
The concept held such promise, what a shame.
John
------Original Message------
From: Graham & Robin Hewitt
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Apr 28, 2008 2:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/27/08
Re Franklin PZL engines.
I emailed, Faxed & phoned them then sent a registered letter.
I then found out that they no longer exist.
A pity that such a glowing Web site has not been closed
Regards Graham now finished my first wing.
Checked by AVG.
27/04/2008 9:39 AM
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: John Woods <johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/27/08
I believe these engines are now produced in Poland.
See this link...
http://www.franklin.ioi.pl/
JohnW
John Recine wrote:
>
> The concept held such promise, what a shame.
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Graham & Robin Hewitt
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Apr 28, 2008 2:46 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 04/27/08
>
>
> Re Franklin PZL engines.
>
> I emailed, Faxed & phoned them then sent a registered letter.
> I then found out that they no longer exist.
> A pity that such a glowing Web site has not been closed
>
> Regards Graham now finished my first wing.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 27/04/2008 9:39 AM
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Hand prop a Corvair?
From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Fellow Air Campers:
This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a Corvair engine
for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He states that he is not
very fond of building up an engine without a starter and alternator, battery
etc.
My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair aircraft engine
is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not installing
a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine. But then
again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a Corvair.
Thanks.
Bob Butsch
--------
Robert Butsch EAA 66532
Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
In Indy IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Good morning,
I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're going to be
setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can begin laying out
the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000 site detailing their worktable
design:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
They went with 2'X5' tables, and then they clamp them together as needed. Since
we would need at least three of those end to end for length and would need to
build it slightly wider than 2', I thought we would scale up their basic design.
I'm thinking two tables, 30" to 36" wide and 8 feet long. Two tables versus
three decrease the potential for leveling/alignment issues, but would still
be easier to move around than one long 15' to 16' table. Any suggestions?
I also pretty much finished the rib jig this weekend. Very excited about that.
I hope to get a couple ribs done this week! The crankshaft is out being machined
and nitrided, and the Stromberg just went out for overhaul. Feels good to be
making a bit of progress.
Have a good one,
Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179805#179805
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig_535.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: Pietn38b <pietn38b(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
Bob
I have been hand proping a corvair for over twenty years without any problems but
I must admit that as I get older and in cosideration of safety, I sure do enjoy
the starter I just installed on one of my planes. I think my other plane
will get one soon. Jim
In a message dated 04/28/08 09:03:58 Central Daylight Time, rbutsch(at)comcast.net
writes:
Fellow Air Campers:
This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a Corvair engine
for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He states that he is not
very fond of building up an engine without a starter and alternator, battery
etc.
My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair aircraft engine
is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not installing
a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine. But then
again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a Corvair.
Thanks.
Bob Butsch
--------
Robert Butsch EAA 66532
Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
In Indy IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
I made mine with two panels joined together to make a 30" by 16' table. It screwed
together and when I was done using it I unscrewed it and stored it for use
later on. It worked fine for me.
Good morning,
I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're going to be
setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can begin laying out
the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000 site detailing their worktable
design:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
They went with 2'X5' tables, and then they clamp them together as needed. Since
we would need at least three of those end to end for length and would need to
build it slightly wider than 2', I thought we would scale up their basic design.
I'm thinking two tables, 30" to 36" wide and 8 feet long. Two tables versus
three decrease the potential for leveling/alignment issues, but would still
be easier to move around than one long 15' to 16' table. Any suggestions?
I also pretty much finished the rib jig this weekend. Very excited about that.
I hope to get a couple ribs done this week! The crankshaft is out being machined
and nitrided, and the Stromberg just went out for overhaul. Feels good to be
making a bit of progress.
Have a good one,
Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179805#179805
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig_535.jpg
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Robert:
If you are using a Corvair you sill need at the very least a dynamo or
alternator and a battery. Something has to provide the juice for the
sparkplugs. Most folks use the permanent magnet generators of John Deere
tractors or the Kubota units of the same manufacturer, like this:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html
A battery in this application is an essential item, since you don't have
dual plugs and mags some level of redundancy is accomplished via dual
points, dual coils with a switcher and the battery as the engine will run on
the battery for about 45 minutes if using points ignition VS ECU electronics
that are sensitive to low voltage levels.
Otherwise you will need to figure out how to rig up a magneto. I am not
sure anyone has gone this way. Magnetos are occasionally available from
after market racing sources for the Corvair at quite high prices and it
typically is a unit that slips in place of the distributor but they are
about 12 inches tall (fit in the car ok) but rather tall for our use. These
aftermarket mags are made for the drag racing community and as such I
believe they are good for the short hard burst but not intended for extended
continuous use as in an aircraft application. As I understand they were
designed to prevent points bounce at high RPM drag racing.
As for hand propping the corvair I am sure it has been done but it is not
recommended by the experts. The small automotive starters used are not so
bad weightwise. I believe the recommendation is a unit from a Nissan sedan.
If you backtrack through Mark Langford's page linked above I am sure you can
find the details on it. As for weight concerns the Corvair is lighter than
the original Ford model A so keeping some weight up front is not nesesaily a
bad thing especially if building the original short fuselage Piet.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand prop a Corvair?
>
> Fellow Air Campers:
> This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a
Corvair engine for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He states
that he is not very fond of building up an engine without a starter and
alternator, battery etc.
> My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair aircraft
engine is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
> After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not
installing a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
>
> I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine. But
then again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
>
> What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a
Corvair.
>
> Thanks.
> Bob Butsch
>
> --------
> Robert Butsch EAA 66532
> Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
> In Indy IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Schreiber" <got22b(at)subarubrat.com>
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
Date: Apr 28, 2008
I did mine by laying the 4x8 MDF directly on the garage floor, since it
lasered nice and flat. Gave a great working surface, no construction time
and your really not using it for long.
-Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
>
>
> Good morning,
>
> I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're going
> to be setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can begin
> laying out the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000 site
> detailing their worktable design:
>
> http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
>
> They went with 2'X5' tables, and then they clamp them together as needed.
> Since we would need at least three of those end to end for length and
> would need to build it slightly wider than 2', I thought we would scale up
> their basic design. I'm thinking two tables, 30" to 36" wide and 8 feet
> long. Two tables versus three decrease the potential for
> leveling/alignment issues, but would still be easier to move around than
> one long 15' to 16' table. Any suggestions?
>
> I also pretty much finished the rib jig this weekend. Very excited about
> that. I hope to get a couple ribs done this week! The crankshaft is out
> being machined and nitrided, and the Stromberg just went out for overhaul.
> Feels good to be making a bit of progress.
>
> Have a good one,
>
> Ryan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179805#179805
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig_535.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
Actually the long fuselage Piet will tend to be even more tail heavy with
the rear cockpit back a bit and the tail several inches longer.
Rick
As for weight concerns the Corvair is lighter than
> the original Ford model A so keeping some weight up front is not nesesaily
> a
> bad thing especially if building the original short fuselage Piet.
>
> Michael in Maine
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:00 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand prop a Corvair?
>
>
>
> >
> > Fellow Air Campers:
> > This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a
> Corvair engine for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He
> states
> that he is not very fond of building up an engine without a starter and
> alternator, battery etc.
> > My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair aircraft
> engine is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
> > After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not
> installing a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
> >
> > I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine.
> But
> then again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
> >
> > What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a
> Corvair.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Bob Butsch
> >
> > --------
> > Robert Butsch EAA 66532
> > Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
> > In Indy IN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Ryan,
I built two tables 2'X8', that way you can get both out of one piece of
ply. I built the Flying and glider fuselage which is 25" high, so just
screw a piece of 2x4 on the edge where the bottom of the fuse hangs over,
no problem.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 4/28/2008 10:24:58 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
>
>
> Good morning,
>
> I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're
going to be setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can
begin laying out the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000 site
detailing their worktable design:
>
> http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
>
> They went with 2'X5' tables, and then they clamp them together as needed.
Since we would need at least three of those end to end for length and would
need to build it slightly wider than 2', I thought we would scale up their
basic design. I'm thinking two tables, 30" to 36" wide and 8 feet long. Two
tables versus three decrease the potential for leveling/alignment issues,
but would still be easier to move around than one long 15' to 16' table.
Any suggestions?
>
> I also pretty much finished the rib jig this weekend. Very excited about
that. I hope to get a couple ribs done this week! The crankshaft is out
being machined and nitrided, and the Stromberg just went out for overhaul.
Feels good to be making a bit of progress.
>
> Have a good one,
>
> Ryan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179805#179805
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig_535.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Hi,
Here are some links to a table design I came up with that is similar to the EAA
plan but easily adjustable for "not-so-flat" floors, like my sloppily poured
garage. I use MDF for all top surfaces instead of ply because it resists warping.
All you need is 2 metal saw horses (Home Depot, $20.00 each) some 3" x 3/4"
pine and threaded rod. Everything folds up neatly when done.
Less time building tables, more time building airplanes. (Not that that has been
happening lately :(
http://www.flyingwood.com/images/stab2.jpg
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=2&filter=0
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179829#179829
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
Hey Michael:
I agree with the rest of the group and can add this: I used MDF boards and cut
the width down to 3' wide thereabouts. I also added wheels to the bottom of
the posts to make it moveable around in my garage. Then I screwed the edges down
all away around and left the center alone. I added levelers to the center of
each section so I could check and readjust to make sure it was level. That way
I could move the table inside and outside during nice weekend days and keeping
the table level.
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Michael Groah wrote:
I made mine with two panels joined together to make a 30" by 16' table. It screwed
together and when I was done using it I unscrewed it and stored it for
use later on. It worked fine for me.
Good morning,
I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're going to be
setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can begin laying out
the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000 site detailing their worktable
design:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
They went with 2'X5' tables, and then they clamp them together as needed. Since
we would need at least three of those end to end for length and would need to
build it slightly
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
Rick,
Hence, I am not too concerned that my custom Header tank weights in at 20 lbs
empty. This will help with weight and balance since I am nearing 270 lbs. Lots
of rear balast!! Better to be nose heavy than tail heavy....Confucius says....
Rick Holland wrote:
Actually the long fuselage Piet will tend to be even more tail heavy with the rear
cockpit back a bit and the tail several inches longer.
Rick
As for weight concerns the Corvair is lighter than
the original Ford model A so keeping some weight up front is not nesesaily a
bad thing especially if building the original short fuselage Piet.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand prop a Corvair?
>
> Fellow Air Campers:
> This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a
Corvair engine for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He states
that he is not very fond of building up an engine without a starter and
alternator, battery etc.
> My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair aircraft
engine is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
> After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not
installing a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
>
> I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine. But
then again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
>
> What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a
Corvair.
>
> Thanks.
> Bob Butsch
>
> --------
> Robert Butsch EAA 66532
> Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
> In Indy IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
As usual I took the path less traveled. I took a hard wood formica topped
library reading table, an old hollow core door, a 4X8 sheet of 5/8 (I think)
particle board./ Leveled the table to the basement floor then joined the door
to it and framed the rest with 2X4 and 4X4 legs and frame to get the full 16
feet then leveled it all and anchored to the basement support columns covered
the entire top surface with the particle board. Deck screws really work well
to hold the entire contraption together so when I fly out of the basement I
can disassemble the bench and get the space back. For the time being its home
to my Piet
Makes for a really strong building platform at the perfect height and cost
me very little to construct, not as sophisticated as many but its been doing
the job quite well
I suppose it really becomes a matter of what you have available to work with
in supplies and space that dictates the bench construction.
John
In a message dated 4/28/2008 11:40:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
Hey Michael:
I agree with the rest of the group and can add this: I used MDF boards and
cut the width down to 3' wide thereabouts. I also added wheels to the bottom
of the posts to make it moveable around in my garage. Then I screwed the edges
down all away around and left the center alone. I added levelers to the
center of each section so I could check and readjust to make sure it was level.
That way I could move the table inside and outside during nice weekend days
and keeping the table level.
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Michael Groah wrote:
I made mine with two panels joined together to make a 30" by 16' table. It
screwed together and when I was done using it I unscrewed it and stored it
for use later on. It worked fine for
____________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
In a message dated 4/28/2008 10:40:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com writes:
nice weekend days
Am I thinking of the Ken Heide, of Fargo and vicinity, that I know? Didn't
know you had such weather. How many inches were measured yesterday?
Corky in buuuuuuuutiful La.
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
Wow, what is that made of? Lead plate? What's the capacity?
Rick
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:38 AM, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP <
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Hence, I am not too concerned that my custom Header tank weights in at 20
> lbs empty. This will help with weight and balance since I am nearing 270
> lbs. Lots of rear balast!! Better to be nose heavy than tail
> heavy....Confucius says....
>
>
> *Rick Holland * wrote:
>
>
> Actually the long fuselage Piet will tend to be even more tail heavy with
> the rear cockpit back a bit and the tail several inches longer.
>
> Rick
>
> As for weight concerns the Corvair is lighter than
> > the original Ford model A so keeping some weight up front is not
> > nesesaily a
> > bad thing especially if building the original short fuselage Piet.
> >
> > Michael in Maine
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:00 AM
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand prop a Corvair?
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Fellow Air Campers:
> > > This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a
> > Corvair engine for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He
> > states
> > that he is not very fond of building up an engine without a starter and
> > alternator, battery etc.
> > > My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair
> > aircraft
> > engine is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
> > > After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not
> > installing a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
> > >
> > > I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine.
> > But
> > then again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
> > >
> > > What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a
> > Corvair.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Bob Butsch
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Robert Butsch EAA 66532
> > > Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
> > > In Indy IN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock,
> ------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I made mine 36" x 96" x 36" high. Built two of them and bolted them
together to make one 3' x 16' table to build the fuselage on. Once the
fuselage was completed, I separated them and used one for a general
workbench and the other I bolted a bending brake and a riveting C-arm
to. Now that I'm building the wing of my RV-10, I had to build another
one to bolt to the general workbench because I still use the riveting
C-Arm on the original table.
Here is a picture of the workbenches. I don't have any good photos with
the Pietenpol on it, but here is the RV-10 main spar for the right wing,
with a good view of the workbenches:
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
Good morning,
I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're
going to be setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can
begin laying out the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000
site detailing their worktable design:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
They went with 2'X5' tables, and then they clamp them together as
needed. Since we would need at least three of those end to end for
length and would need to build it slightly wider than 2', I thought we
would scale up their basic design. I'm thinking two tables, 30" to 36"
wide and 8 feet long. Two tables versus three decrease the potential for
leveling/alignment issues, but would still be easier to move around than
one long 15' to 16' table. Any suggestions?
I also pretty much finished the rib jig this weekend. Very excited about
that. I hope to get a couple ribs done this week! The crankshaft is out
being machined and nitrided, and the Stromberg just went out for
overhaul. Feels good to be making a bit of progress.
Have a good one,
Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179805#179805
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribjig_535.jpg
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
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or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
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rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Thank you everyone for relaying your thoughts and experiences with your workbenchs.
Plenty of good ideas. It will definitely help us choose what exactly to build
when we head to the garage this weekend.
Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179900#179900
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
Hellooooo Corky,
Yes!... we had snow over the weekend - 12 inches of the stuff! I had to hook
up the snow plow to the ATV and PUSH the snow out of the driveway! Way too late
in the year for this white stuff...
Say Corky, wheres my plane ticket to sunny Louisinanna.....?
Ken H
Fargo, ND
Isablcorky(at)aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 4/28/2008 10:40:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com
writes:
nice weekend days
Am I thinking of the Ken Heide, of Fargo and vicinity, that I know? Didn't know
you had such weather. How many inches were measured yesterday?
Corky in buuuuuuuutiful La.
---------------------------------
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL
Autos.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
Rick,
Combination of 5/32 and 1/8 Aluminum...... Capacity of 10-12 gallons?
I need extra weight up front!
Ken H
Rick Holland wrote:
Wow, what is that made of? Lead plate? What's the capacity?
Rick
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 9:38 AM, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
wrote:
Rick,
Hence, I am not too concerned that my custom Header tank weights in at 20 lbs
empty. This will help with weight and balance since I am nearing 270 lbs. Lots
of rear balast!! Better to be nose heavy than tail heavy....Confucius says....
Rick Holland wrote:
Actually the long fuselage Piet will tend to be even more tail heavy with the rear
cockpit back a bit and the tail several inches longer.
Rick
As for weight concerns the Corvair is lighter than
the original Ford model A so keeping some weight up front is not nesesaily a
bad thing especially if building the original short fuselage Piet.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Butsch" <rbutsch(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand prop a Corvair?
>
> Fellow Air Campers:
> This may or may not be a new topic. I am going to be building up a
Corvair engine for my Air Camper and have William Wynne's manual. He states
that he is not very fond of building up an engine without a starter and
alternator, battery etc.
> My question to all of you who have experience with the Corvair aircraft
engine is this; Can you hand prop that engine without too much effort?
> After adding up some of the weights, I'm leaning heavily towards not
installing a starter, alternator, battery system etc.
>
> I flew a Volksplane for many hours and always hand proped the engine. But
then again it was only a four banger and lower compression.
>
> What do you think? Especially anyone who is currently hand starting a
Corvair.
>
> Thanks.
> Bob Butsch
>
> --------
> Robert Butsch EAA 66532
> Pietenpol NX45BB (Alpha stage)
> In Indy IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179803#179803
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock,
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 28, 2008
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done with the
front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do you end
up having to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to do)
Please help!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: "walt evans" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Gene,
I made mine straight.
On climbout I have to hold right rudder, but once up to altitude, with
throttle back to cruise, I need no rudder.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done with
the front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do you
end up having to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to
do)
Please help!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Gene,
The LE of the vertical fin on NX18235 is offset about 3/4" and it could
use about 1/8" more.
If you can build the attachment brackets to allow for ground adjustment
you might save some heartburn later.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done with
the front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do you
end up having to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to
do)
Please help!
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 28, 2008
I guess it would help to know which engine and fuselage you guys have
before I can make an informed decision. I have the short fuselage and
model A engine, maybe those of you with longer fuselages don't need to
offset???
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans<mailto:waltdak(at)verizon.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
Gene,
I made mine straight.
On climbout I have to hold right rudder, but once up to altitude, with
throttle back to cruise, I need no rudder.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo<mailto:GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done with
the front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do you
end up having to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to
do)
Please help!
Gene
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: Pastor Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Gene,
How big are you and how do you feel about the short fuselage?
I am 5'9" and weight about 230 lbs.
Thanks
Pastor Mike
Gene Rambo wrote:
> I guess it would help to know which engine and fuselage you guys have
> before I can make an informed decision. I have the short fuselage and
> model A engine, maybe those of you with longer fuselages don't need to
> offset???
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* walt evans
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 6:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
>
> Gene,
> I made mine straight.
> On climbout I have to hold right rudder, but once up to altitude,
> with throttle back to cruise, I need no rudder.
> Walt Evans
> NX140DL
>
> "If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gene Rambo
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
>
> OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has
> done with the front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If
> you don't, do you end up having to put a trim tab on the
> rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to do)
>
> Please help!
>
> Gene
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 28, 2008
Good point.
NX18235 is a long fuselage, A-65 powered Air Camper. Engine is offset
about 1" to the right, fin is offset to the left about 3/4" and I need
to hold a little right rudder in cruise. No trim tabs installed or
desired.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
I guess it would help to know which engine and fuselage you guys have
before I can make an informed decision. I have the short fuselage and
model A engine, maybe those of you with longer fuselages don't need to
offset???
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: walt evans
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
Gene,
I made mine straight.
On climbout I have to hold right rudder, but once up to altitude,
with throttle back to cruise, I need no rudder.
Walt Evans
NX140DL
"If you look for a reason not to,,,You'll find it"
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Rambo
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done
with the front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do
you end up having to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want
to do)
Please help!
Gene
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Work table thoughts, and rib jig done!
I made one 4X14 ft table out of metal stud material.
I chose that because it's dead straight.
Whatever you choose, screw 1/2" bolts into the bottom
of each leg for leveling.
Clif
>
> I wanted to what others experiences were regarding worktables. We're going
> to be setting up one bay of a two car garage with tables so we can begin
> laying out the fuselage. I found a page at the EAA Chapter 1000 site
> detailing their worktable design:
>
> http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm
>
> Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2008
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Chuck Gantzer
Gents:
Has anyone got Chuck Gantzer's phone number?
Thanks,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: long/short fuselage and painting reg numbers
Date: Apr 29, 2008
Hey there,
I bought my plane as a started project and the fuse was pretty much
built. Never really cked if it's the long or short fuse. What is the
length of each, and is it measured from firewall to tailpost?
Finally up to the color coats in the doping process, thank God the color
coats cover better than the silver or I'd be going through ten gallons.
It really looks nice and it feels great to see the wings and tail parts
in the final color. My question is this. I want to paint my numbers
large on the wings. I'm going to use rounded numbers as they were more
common in the early thirties until CAA mandated the squared style. What
would be a good way to mask a rounded shape like this, especially on a
wing which isn't flat between the ribs? what did you guys do?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 29, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I made the front tabs that attach the vertical fin with longer tabs on the
bottom, with two sets of holes, which allow me to easily shift the fin from
a =BE" offset to no offset. I have kept it at =BE" and it works fine. Lo
ng fuselage, 65 Continental.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done with the fr
ont of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do you end up hav
ing to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to do)
Please help!
Gene
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: long/short fuselage and painting reg numbers
Date: Apr 29, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I had vinyl stencils made by AvGrafix (who also made the vinyl graphics
for my logo and spear on the fuselage). They worked great!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Icarus Plummet
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: long/short fuselage and painting reg numbers
Hey there,
I bought my plane as a started project and the fuse was pretty much
built. Never really cked if it's the long or short fuse. What is the
length of each, and is it measured from firewall to tailpost?
Finally up to the color coats in the doping process, thank God the color
coats cover better than the silver or I'd be going through ten gallons.
It really looks nice and it feels great to see the wings and tail parts
in the final color. My question is this. I want to paint my numbers
large on the wings. I'm going to use rounded numbers as they were more
common in the early thirties until CAA mandated the squared style. What
would be a good way to mask a rounded shape like this, especially on a
wing which isn't flat between the ribs? what did you guys do?
Douwe
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
ged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas
e notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 29, 2008
Now that I am clamping and drilling, I am finding that even if I make
extra holes for offsetting the fin, the rear fitting will not allow the
fin to move without really stressing the rear spar, so I am now thinking
that I will just make it straight and live with it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack<mailto:Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:36 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
I made the front tabs that attach the vertical fin with longer tabs on
the bottom, with two sets of holes, which allow me to easily shift the
fin from a =BE" offset to no offset. I have kept it at =BE" and it
works fine. Long fuselage, 65 Continental.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
OK, I am ready to drill and need to know what everyone has done with
the front of the fin . . . offset it or not????? If you don't, do you
end up having to put a trim tab on the rudder?? (which I DO NOT want to
do)
Please help!
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you
is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2008
From: Pastor Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: long/short fuselage and painting reg numbers
Jack,
That is really neat. Good show.
Pastor Mike in Iowa
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>
> I had vinyl stencils made by AvGrafix (who also made the vinyl
> graphics for my logo and spear on the fuselage). They worked great!
>
>
>
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Icarus Plummet
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Douwe Blumberg
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:03 AM
> *To:* pietenpolgroup
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: long/short fuselage and painting reg numbers
>
>
>
> Hey there,
>
>
>
> I bought my plane as a started project and the fuse was pretty much
> built. Never really cked if it's the long or short fuse. What is the
> length of each, and is it measured from firewall to tailpost?
>
>
>
> Finally up to the color coats in the doping process, thank God the
> color coats cover better than the silver or I'd be going through ten
> gallons. It really looks nice and it feels great to see the wings and
> tail parts in the final color. My question is this. I want to paint
> my numbers large on the wings. I'm going to use rounded numbers as
> they were more common in the early thirties until CAA mandated the
> squared style. What would be a good way to mask a rounded shape like
> this, especially on a wing which isn't flat between the ribs? what
> did you guys do?
>
>
>
> Douwe
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2008
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
One thing that makes me wonder...they don't have any links to any builders using
their engines or products. the only links to Corvair fliers that they have
on their web page, takes you to people who are using Flycorvair.com engines from
William Wynne. They bash him, then use examples of people using his stuff to
show how good the Corvair is? Now, that's just bad.
Tim in Bovey
http://venturay.com/engines.html
Anyone know anything about these guys?
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Is it worth it?
Nothing wrong with a corvair. I think it's as dependable as any 60 year old continental
or 80 year old ford. Just as any engine you rebuild to put on an airplane
you have to start with a good core and go from there.
Just my feelings on the subject,
Shad
NX92GB
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Hot rodding the Model A
Take a look at this supercharged model A http://www.billingsgazette.net/m/gallery/2007/07/06/airplane/airplane2.html
Santiago
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Encuentros
Ahora encontrar pareja es mucho ms fcil, prob el nuevo Yahoo! Encuentros.
Visit http://yahoo.cupidovirtual.com/servlet/NewRegistration
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Gene, the angular difference a =BE" offset at the front fitting makes is pr
etty small. If you oversize the holes slightly in the rear fittings (go to
.201" on the holes for the AN3 bolts) you can easily shift the vertical fi
n 3/4 " at its leading edge.
However, given the fact that a Piet is basically unstable in yaw (or at bes
t, neutrally stable) and it won't fly "feet off" for more than a few second
s, having to hold a little rudder is not much of a problem. It's not like
you are building a long distance cruising machine that should fly hands off
perfectly trimmed, and be a nice stable instrument platform for shooting I
LS approaches. It's a Pietenpol!
BTW, my Pietenpol has recently been honored by being invited to be on displ
ay at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles International Airport f
or their "Family Day" on June 14th. Weather permitting, I will fly it up t
here, penetrating the Washington ADIZ (I'll bet the Potomac TRACON is going
to love dealing with traffic with a 58 knot cruise speed) and have it on d
isplay at the museum all day Saturday. Check out: http://www.nasm.si.edu/
becomeapilot/index.cfm I hope some of you that live near northern Virginia
can come and talk Pietenpols with me.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: vertical fin offset
Now that I am clamping and drilling, I am finding that even if I make extra
holes for offsetting the fin, the rear fitting will not allow the fin to m
ove without really stressing the rear spar, so I am now thinking that I wil
l just make it straight and live with it.
Gene
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 30, 2008
Jack, Congrats!! What an honor!
Gene in Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2008
Jack,
Congrates! That is a great open house, and now a great excuse for getting out of
yard work! I look forward to seeing you there!
Steve
P.S. Tom - No drag chutes on F-16s! ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180290#180290
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
From: "pflyboy" <nick_d_av8r(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2008
Do you think that could work? I imagine the RPMs would be rather low (of course
I don't know much about superchargers or turbos in general, either). Worth
some more research nonetheless. Thanks for that link!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180298#180298
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
They bump the rpms up quite considerably but they have a nasty habit of
reducing the life of the engine as you might have guessed.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pflyboy
Sent: April 30, 2008 1:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
Do you think that could work? I imagine the RPMs would be rather low
(of course I don't know much about superchargers or turbos in general,
either). Worth some more research nonetheless. Thanks for that link!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180298#180298
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Actually there is one version of the F-16 with drag chutes. When I was
working at General Dynamics on the F-16 program we developed a special
version for the Norwegians that had a drag chute built into the base of
the vertical tail so the Norwegians could land on icy runways.
But it couldn't fly with the chute deployed so it still couldn't
slow-fly with a Pietenpol...
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: vertical fin offset
Jack,
Congrates! That is a great open house, and now a great excuse for
getting out of yard work! I look forward to seeing you there!
Steve
P.S. Tom - No drag chutes on F-16s! ;-)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180290#180290
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
From: "pflyboy" <nick_d_av8r(at)msn.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2008
About the engine life, I could only image. However I was referring to the RPM
of the little "turbine" in the turbo. I should have been more specific. While
we are at it, what is the average life for the Model A?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180310#180310
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Apr 30, 2008
Subject: Source for stainless tubing
Hi Guys,
I just got an unsolicited catalog in the mail. Man I wish I had gotten this
awhile back. Would have saved me mucho time and money/research.
_www.jmesanitary.com_ (http://www.jmesanitary.com) . They have all kinds of stainless tube
fittings suitable for intake/exhaust pipes and also could be used for
radiator tubes.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
Isn't it the little turbine that's putting out the huge rpms that boost
the engine?They feed back the used exhaust and they use it to drive that
little bugger which in turn gives extra drive to the main engine.My
understanding of a turbine and a super charger are two different things
though.A turbine once started operates at a constant speed and you just
feed off it what ever you need where as a supercharger is only used for
short periods like for take offs or drag racing.A super charger is a
feed back system sort of like an after burner on a jet.
In the old days they used to use leather in the Model A; today it's
anybodies guess.Just the fact they are still around is a good sign.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pflyboy
Sent: April 30, 2008 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
About the engine life, I could only image. However I was referring to
the RPM of the little "turbine" in the turbo. I should have been more
specific. While we are at it, what is the average life for the Model A?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180310#180310
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tenpol-List:turbo charge
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: <harvey.rule(at)bell.ca>
In internal combustion engines
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engines> a
turbocharger is a turbine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbine> driven
forced induction <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_induction>
compressor <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressor> powered by
pressure from the engine's exhaust gas. This is in contrast to a
supercharger <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger> , which is
mechanically driven by the engine's crankshaft via a belt.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
Date: Apr 30, 2008
> Isn't it the little turbine that's putting out the huge rpms that boost
> the engine?They feed back the used exhaust and they use it to drive that
> little bugger which in turn gives extra drive to the main engine.My
> understanding of a turbine and a super charger are two different things
> though.A turbine once started operates at a constant speed
The speed of a turbocharger changes with engine RPM, although not directly
coupled. It's like a water wheel on an old mill, driven by the flow of the
river, except it uses exhaust gases instead of water. The "water wheel" then
turns an impeller, via a shared shaft, which forces air into the induction
system. The harder the combustion gases push the "water wheel", the faster
the impeller spins, and the faster it spins, the more air is forced into the
combustion chamber.
Shaft speed is ultimately limited by a waste gate which is essentially a
hole that opens to bypass some of the exhaust gasses, reducing the forces on
the "water wheel".
> where as a supercharger is only used for
> short periods like for take offs or drag racing.A super charger is a
> feed back system sort of like an after burner on a jet.
A supercharger works much in the same way except that the impeller isn't
turned by exhaust gases, it's belt-driven off the crankshaft.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/supercharger-6a.jpg
The two most common superchargers are centrifugal, like with the
turbocharger or screw driven.
http://images.chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/induction_power
adders/0610ch_09_z+superchargers+kenne_bell_supercharger.jpg
Although superchargers are mostly recognized on dragsters and funny cars,
they see daily duty in diesel trucks and many "modern" automobiles such as
some mid 80's Ford Thunderbirds and late 90's (early 2000's) Pontiac Grand
Prix, not to mention the Mercedes Benz C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan.
Supercharging and turbocharging were most likely developed and certainly
refined (perfected) during WWII for high-altitude flying.
Many "modern" piston powered aircraft use turbocharging, especially those
that have pressurized cabins.
John Steere has a supercharged Thunderbird Powered BD-4. We wrote about it
several years ago in CONTACT! Magazine.
I hope this helps.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 2008
Jack,
Excellent point! I think several FMS recipients (mostly European) adopted chutes.
Yes, I don't think anything will want to get that Low and Slow to escort you.
Are you bringing your Piet to the Air Show/Open House at Andrews in May?
Steve C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180336#180336
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
No, but I'm planning on bringing it to the Mid Atlantic Fly-in and Sport
Aviation Convention (MAFSAC) at Lumberton NC next month.
http://www.mafsac.com/
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: vertical fin offset
Jack,
Excellent point! I think several FMS recipients (mostly European)
adopted chutes. Yes, I don't think anything will want to get that Low
and Slow to escort you. Are you bringing your Piet to the Air Show/Open
House at Andrews in May?
Steve C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180336#180336
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 2008
From: <bike.mike(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: vertical fin offset
And don't forget that awful cluge of a spin chute we rigged on the AFTI F-16 in
1982.
However, being unarmed and decommissioned, the AFTI isn't likely to be launched
by Homeland Security.
Mike Hardaway
---- "Phillips wrote:
>
> Actually there is one version of the F-16 with drag chutes. When I was
> working at General Dynamics on the F-16 program we developed a special
> version for the Norwegians that had a drag chute built into the base of
> the vertical tail so the Norwegians could land on icy runways.
>
> But it couldn't fly with the chute deployed so it still couldn't
> slow-fly with a Pietenpol...
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: vertical fin offset
>
>
> Jack,
> Congrates! That is a great open house, and now a great excuse for
> getting out of yard work! I look forward to seeing you there!
> Steve
>
> P.S. Tom - No drag chutes on F-16s! ;-)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180290#180290
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
>
> Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Piet vs. F-16
Date: Apr 30, 2008
> Now THERE's a visual image for you... An F-16 with gear down, flaps
> fully extended, drag 'chute deployed, wobbling on the verge of a stall,
> and STILL pulling away.
Yup, that's exactly what would happen. In 2004, I saw an Aeronca fly over
and then circle directly over a presidential campaign event in Florida last
election while President Bush was speaking. I can personally testify that an
F-16 is no match for a slow GA aircraft, at least speed-wise... the Viper
was in no way able to slow down enough to "shadow" the idiot in the Champ,
though he sure tried... all he could do was circle around him in full
afterburner, trying to slow-fly.
The guy eventually landed at a nearby airport (to a nice reception by some
guys in dark glasses) but not after A) busting a 30-mile TFR, B) flying
directly into the center of the TFR, C) repeatedly ignoring (or failing to
grasp) that an F-16 popping flares a couple of hundred feet in front of you
probably is a sign that you should do something other than continue on your
course, and D) after all that, CIRCLING the stadium that was the subject of
said TFR while the prez was talking at about 700 feet AGL! Headline news...
"small yellow plane disrupts election rally"... Never did hear what they did
to the pilot (who flew in from up north someplace) but I bet it wasn't
pretty!
Now, you get an F-22 after a Piet... my bet is the Piet's gonna fall out of
the air long before the Raptor!
Congrats, Jack... quite an honor... and good luck with the ADIZ friendly
fire! :)
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Hot rodding the Model A
Go here;
http://users.aol.com/gmaclaren/dyno.html
Clif
>
> They bump the rpms up quite considerably but they have a nasty habit of
> reducing the life of the engine as you might have guessed.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gusset questions
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 01, 2008
A couple of questions about the gussets on the wing ribs....
I have the full size rib print, although I didn't use it to layout the jig. I'm
cutting pieces of thin cardboard to match the gussets as shown on the full size
print, and then I'll use those patterns for cutting gussets from the sheet
of 1.5mm birch ply we bought from AS&S. Are there any discrepancies in the gussets
as shown on the full size print?
The top gusset on the rear spar upright is a rather odd shape, insofar as how it
extends down the 45 degree rib member. I wonder if it would be better to just
extend it out to be a full square so it might be a little stronger. Of course,
then I look at it and think that if it needed to be that way then it would
have been drawn that way. :P
Otherwise I think I've found most of the posts on the other things to be careful
of: scuffing the birch before gluing, cut the gussets out so you have vertical
grain orientation. I was thinking of using weights on the gussets and leaving
the rib in the jig overnight to dry. Stapling (and removing the staples later)
sounded good as well, speeding up the process, but I worry about having the
gusset shift when the staple is driven in. Is this a concern?
Thanks for the help,
Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180454#180454
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Hot rodding the Model A
Date: May 01, 2008
Pat wrote-
> John Steere has a supercharged Thunderbird Powered BD-4. We wrote about it
> several years ago in CONTACT! Magazine.
Reminds me of a joke. Did you hear the one about the farmer whose wife ran off
with the tractor salesman? She sent him a John Deere letter.
Sorry, guys (and congrats, Jack, on posing your cutie at Udvar-Hazy).
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robhart67(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Gusset questions
Date: May 01, 2008
Hi Ryan
You echo concerns I had only a week or so ago. I am using the Riblett aero
foil (as are a number of us "Down-Under" Piet builders), and so the gusset
shapes may be a little different.
I cut a full size rib as a template for the capstrips, braces and gussets.
I cut my gussets from 1 3/16" strips of 1.5mm ply. Given 32 ribs, each re
quiring gussets on both sides, I needed 64 gussets at each station. Using
the template gusset as a guide, I stacked 11 strips of ply, and cut 6 gusse
ts from each stack on the bandsaw, giving 66 gussets for each station.
To avoid the need for staples/nails, I made up 20 weight blocks from 1" ste
el bar. Each block is 1 1/2" long, cleaned up on the lathe, and wrapped wi
th plastic tape so it doesn't stick to the gusset. Just place each block o
n the gusset as it is glued, ensuring the gusset doesn't slide. I'm using
West Systems with its proprietary filler, to give a nice thixotropic glue s
imilar to Techniglue but with more control over the viscosity. The blocks
provide sufficient pressure to ensure full surface contact, but avoiding gl
ue-starved joints caused by over-clamping.
When gluing the starboard side gussets, having sanded the capstrips flush,
I used cut sections of 40mm pvc pipe as claps, with the rib raised off the
bench on 1X1" timbers (left over from the mockup I built).
More details, if you're interested, at http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/bui
ldLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1851&PlaneID=503
Cheers
Rob
Piet building in Perth, Western Australia
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions> From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com> Da
Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Ryan Mueller" > >
A couple of questions about the gussets on the wing ribs....> > I have the
full size rib print, although I didn't use it to layout the jig. I'm cutti
ng pieces of thin cardboard to match the gussets as shown on the full size
print, and then I'll use those patterns for cutting gussets from the sheet
of 1.5mm birch ply we bought from AS&S. Are there any discrepancies in the
gussets as shown on the full size print? > > The top gusset on the rear spa
r upright is a rather odd shape, insofar as how it extends down the 45 degr
ee rib member. I wonder if it would be better to just extend it out to be a
full square so it might be a little stronger. Of course, then I look at it
and think that if it needed to be that way then it would have been drawn t
hat way. :P> > Otherwise I think I've found most of the posts on the other
things to be careful of: scuffing the birch before gluing, cut the gussets
out so you have vertical grain orientation. I was thinking of using weights
on the gussets and leaving the rib in the jig overnight to dry. Stapling (
and removing the staples later) sounded good as well, speeding up the proce
ss, but I worry about having the gusset shift when the staple is driven in.
Is this a concern?> > Thanks for the help,> > Ryan> > > > > Read this topi
c online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180454#1804
-========================
========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Be part of history. Take part in Australia's first e-mail archive with Emai
l Australia.
http://emailaustralia.ninemsn.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: Pastor Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: Gusset questions
Rob,
What is the advantages of the Riblett aerofoil ?
Pastor Mike in Iowa
Rob Hart wrote:
> Hi Ryan
>
> You echo concerns I had only a week or so ago. I am using the Riblett
> aerofoil (as are a number of us "Down-Under" Piet builders), and so
> the gusset shapes may be a little different.
>
> I cut a full size rib as a template for the capstrips, braces and
> gussets. I cut my gussets from 1 3/16" strips of 1.5mm ply. Given 32
> ribs, each requiring gussets on both sides, I needed 64 gussets at
> each station. Using the template gusset as a guide, I stacked 11
> strips of ply, and cut 6 gussets from each stack on the bandsaw,
> giving 66 gussets for each station.
>
> To avoid the need for staples/nails, I made up 20 weight blocks from
> 1" steel bar. Each block is 1 1/2" long, cleaned up on the lathe, and
> wrapped with plastic tape so it doesn't stick to the gusset. Just
> place each block on the gusset as it is glued, ensuring the gusset
> doesn't slide. I'm using West Systems with its proprietary filler, to
> give a nice thixotropic glue similar to Techniglue but with more
> control over the viscosity. The blocks provide sufficient pressure to
> ensure full surface contact, but avoiding glue-starved joints caused
> by over-clamping.
>
> When gluing the starboard side gussets, having sanded the capstrips
> flush, I used cut sections of 40mm pvc pipe as claps, with the rib
> raised off the bench on 1X1" timbers (left over from the mockup I built).
>
> More details, if you're interested, at
> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1851&PlaneID=503
> <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1851&PlaneID=503>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Rob
>
> Piet building in Perth, Western Australia
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions
> > From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com
> > Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 05:24:02 -0700
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >
>
> >
> > A couple of questions about the gussets on the wing ribs....
> >
> > I have the full size rib print, although I didn't use it to layout
> the jig. I'm cutting pieces of thin cardboard to match the gussets as
> shown on the full size print, and then I'll use those patterns for
> cutting gussets from the sheet of 1.5mm birch ply we bought from AS&S.
> Are there any discrepancies in the gussets as shown on the full size
> print?
> >
> > The top gusset on the rear spar upright is a rather odd shape,
> insofar as how it extends down the 45 degree rib member. I wonder if
> it would be better to just extend it out to be a full square so it
> might be a little stronger. Of course, then I look at it and think
> that if it needed to be that way then it would have been drawn that
> way. :P
> >
> > Otherwise I think I've found most of the posts on the other things
> to be careful of: scuffing the birch before gluing, cut the gussets
> out so you have vertical grain orientation. I was thinking of using
> weights on the gussets and leaving the rib in the jig overnight to
> dry. Stapling (and removing the staples later) sounded good as well,
> speeding up the process, but I worry about having the gusset shift
> when the staple is driven in. Is this a concern?
> >
> > Thanks for the help,
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180454#180454
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email Australia. Be part of history. Take part in Australia's first
> e-mail archive with <http://emailaustralia.ninemsn.com.au>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robhart67(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Gusset questions
Date: May 01, 2008
Hi Mike
I'm not the best qualified to comment, but I understand that the Riblett 61
2 profile gives better rate of climb, gentler stall characteristics and is
so close to B Pietenpol's original curve that only the most informed will
be able to notice the difference. There are many more on this list who are
much better able than I to expound the benefits of the Riblett design; I i
nvite them to do so.
The reference coordinates of the various profiles have recently been posted
on the list by a friend and colleague, John Woods, for anyone who is inter
ested in looking at the various options.
At least two of us in Perth are using the Jim Wills wing design, allowing a
n increase in MTOW to 1200#. With the 612 profile this should realise a mo
re versatile aircraft, particularly with 2 up. Incidentally, this is the r
eason why some of us will be covering both top and bottom leading edges, ba
ck to the aft edge of the front spar, with ply. The enclosed D section thi
s creates dramatically increases the strength of the wing, allowing the inc
reased MTOW from the original design.Cheers
Rob
> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 09:40:56 -0500> From: miket(at)southslope.net> To: pie
tenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions> >
pe.net>> > Rob,> What is the advantages of the Riblett aerofoil ?> Pastor M
ike in Iowa> > Rob Hart wrote:> > Hi Ryan> > > > You echo concerns I had on
ly a week or so ago. I am using the Riblett > > aerofoil (as are a number o
f us "Down-Under" Piet builders), and so > > the gusset shapes may be a lit
tle different.> > > > I cut a full size rib as a template for the capstrips
, braces and > > gussets. I cut my gussets from 1 3/16" strips of 1.5mm ply
. Given 32 > > ribs, each requiring gussets on both sides, I needed 64 guss
ets at > > each station. Using the template gusset as a guide, I stacked 11
> > strips of ply, and cut 6 gussets from each stack on the bandsaw, > > g
iving 66 gussets for each station.> >> > To avoid the need for staples/nail
s, I made up 20 weight blocks from > > 1" steel bar. Each block is 1 1/2" l
ong, cleaned up on the lathe, and > > wrapped with plastic tape so it doesn
't stick to the gusset. Just > > place each block on the gusset as it is gl
ued, ensuring the gusset > > doesn't slide. I'm using West Systems with its
proprietary filler, to > > give a nice thixotropic glue similar to Technig
lue but with more > > control over the viscosity. The blocks provide suffic
ient pressure to > > ensure full surface contact, but avoiding glue-starved
joints caused > > by over-clamping.> > > > When gluing the starboard side
gussets, having sanded the capstrips > > flush, I used cut sections of 40mm
pvc pipe as claps, with the rib > > raised off the bench on 1X1" timbers (
left over from the mockup I built).> > > > More details, if you're interest
ed, at > > http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildL
ogID=1851&PlaneID=503 > > <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogRep
ortDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1851&PlaneID=503>> > > > > > Cheers> > > > Rob
> > > > Piet building in Perth, Western Australia> >> >> >> > > > ---------
---------------------------------------------------------------> >> > > Sub
ject: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions> > > From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com> > >
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 05:24:02 -0700> > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
er23(at)gmail.com>> > >> > > A couple of questions about the gussets on the wi
ng ribs....> > >> > > I have the full size rib print, although I didn't use
it to layout > > the jig. I'm cutting pieces of thin cardboard to match th
e gussets as > > shown on the full size print, and then I'll use those patt
erns for > > cutting gussets from the sheet of 1.5mm birch ply we bought fr
om AS&S. > > Are there any discrepancies in the gussets as shown on the ful
l size > > print?> > >> > > The top gusset on the rear spar upright is a ra
ther odd shape, > > insofar as how it extends down the 45 degree rib member
. I wonder if > > it would be better to just extend it out to be a full squ
are so it > > might be a little stronger. Of course, then I look at it and
think > > that if it needed to be that way then it would have been drawn th
at > > way. :P> > >> > > Otherwise I think I've found most of the posts on
the other things > > to be careful of: scuffing the birch before gluing, cu
t the gussets > > out so you have vertical grain orientation. I was thinkin
g of using > > weights on the gussets and leaving the rib in the jig overni
ght to > > dry. Stapling (and removing the staples later) sounded good as w
ell, > > speeding up the process, but I worry about having the gusset shift
> > when the staple is driven in. Is this a concern?> > >> > > Thanks for
the help,> > >> > > Ryan> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Read this topic online he
re:> > >> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180454#180454>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > > ====> > >> > >> > >> >> >> > --------------
----------------------------------------------------------> > Email Austral
ia. Be part of history. Take part in Australia's first > > e-mail archive w
=======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
It's simple! Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au
e%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Gusset questions- Jim Wills Wing?
Rob,
Please expound upon and/or provide a link to the "Jim Wills wing design."
BTW, I know what you mean about D-box strength and building the ply leading edge,
and am very familiar with Riblett airfoils applicable to Piets. Thanks.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Hart <robhart67(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: May 1, 2008 10:18 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions
>
>Hi Mike
>
>>TRUNCATED MESSAGE
>At least two of us in Perth are using the Jim Wills wing design, allowing an increase
in MTOW to 1200#. With the 612 profile this should realise a more versatile
aircraft, particularly with 2 up. Incidentally, this is the reason why
some of us will be covering both top and bottom leading edges, back to the aft
edge of the front spar, with ply. The enclosed D section this creates dramatically
increases the strength of the wing, allowing the increased MTOW from the
original design.Cheers
>Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Gusset questions
Hello Rob,
"To avoid the need for staples/nails, I made up 20 weight blocks from 1" steel
bar." I did a similar thing except I purchased 1 lb bolts at my local hardware
store. See photos...
each bolt was about 50 Cents.
The photos are of my bottom being attached. I have a much wider fuse then most.
Ken H
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: <billmz(at)cox.net>
Subject: EAA video clip
Not sure if any of you have seen this, but it was sent to me by a pilot friend
of mine. It's a video clip about the EAA, narrated by Harrison Ford. It's about
17 minutes long, but worth watching. There's even a brief appearance of Dick
Navratil's Rotec-powered Piet. Enjoy!
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1412255721?bctid=1381694270
Billy McCaskill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Gusset questions
Date: May 01, 2008
Ken:
Not sure if it is common knowledge here but I thought I pass this on about
making cheap clamps. Boat building like airplane building often requires
lots of them.
Run a piece of 2 or 3 inch PVC schedule 40 down a table saw and cut one wall
through, then chop it in to 1 inch wide doughnuts. You can make a bucket
full of clamps for pennies.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hand prop a Corvair?
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: May 01, 2008
We did exactly that this past Saturday. I have video as well if you'd like to see,
though after driving 36 hours and arriving home with a Piet this afternoon,
I'm going for a hot tub with a bowl of chocolate ice cream and taking long nap
(afterwards) first! I and my co-owner buddy picked up a nearly done Piet this
past weekend - it's the blue and cream one that was on Barnstormers these past
several months. The engine had not run for months. Outside temp was about
zero, and the hangar was not heated. We checked the oil, drained the tank and
gascolator, then added clean fuel. After a few pulls to limber the engine, we
pulled 4-5 blades with fuel and choke on and mags off. Mags on, choke off, and
it popped on pull 3, and started on pull 4. A tweak or two on the choke kept
it happy for the first few seconds, then it was fine warming up open. It was
not a big deal to prop, and others have been doing it for ages. With a balky engine
of course the tale may be somehwat different..
Hope this adds some perspective.
Mike D.
p.s. the carb (soon to be ex-carb) is a leaky Tillotson.
p.p.s. right after that run, we pulled the engine and mount and shipped it to a
new owner. We're using an A-75 instead. But the Corvair sounded really nice,
with a hint of a lumpy idle to give it that "do-you-think-my-cam-is-stock?" sound.
We only ran it to 1500 rpm as we were freezing and it was taking it's time
to warm up in the wind and cold.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180541#180541
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Gusset questions
Date: May 01, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Gusset questions
Date: May 01, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Gusset questions
MIchael...
Excellent idea!! I am off to the hardware store for some PVC. I will start making
some tomorrow!
Ken
Michael Silvius wrote:
Ken:
Not sure if it is common knowledge here but I thought I pass this on about
making cheap clamps. Boat building like airplane building often requires
lots of them.
Run a piece of 2 or 3 inch PVC schedule 40 down a table saw and cut one wall
through, then chop it in to 1 inch wide doughnuts. You can make a bucket
full of clamps for pennies.
Michael
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: PVC clamps
Date: May 01, 2008
I made a bunch of PVC clamps a while ago and used them extensively on my wing.
They really do work well !!! I used a larger pipe size (6 inch I think) and then
made clamps of various widths to control clamp pressure.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Sent: 5/1/2008 4:13:56 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions
MIchael...
Excellent idea!! I am off to the hardware store for some PVC. I will start making
some tomorrow!
Ken
Michael Silvius wrote:
Ken:
Not sure if it is common knowledge here but I thought I pass this on about
making cheap clamps. Boat building like airplane building often requires
lots of them.
Run a piece of 2 or 3 inch PVC schedule 40 down a table saw and cut one wall
through, then chop it in to 1 inch wide doughnuts. You can make a bucket
full of clamps for pennies.
Michael
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Be a better friend, newshound, and
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: PVC clamps
Date: May 01, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: PVC clamps
Date: May 01, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 2008
From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Gusset questions
Put handles on them for one hand use. Makes a HUGE
difference when you can hold something in place with
one hand while clamping with the other. I have them
in 3, 4 and 6" sizes.
There are NEVER enough clamps!
Clif
>
> Run a piece of 2 or 3 inch PVC schedule 40 down a table saw and cut one
> wall
> through, then chop it in to 1 inch wide doughnuts. You can make a bucket
> full of clamps for pennies.
>
> Michael
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG.
5:30 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jim Wills wing
Date: May 02, 2008
Tim; I believe the "Jim Wills wing" is the built-up spar design that the UK authorities
approved and that is used by most/all of the UK builders. It is a box
spar with top and bottom spar caps, a plywood shear face, and filler pieces
at the tip, root, and lift strut attach points as well as having vertical stiffeners
along the length of it. The beauty of it is that it can be built at much
lower cost than solid or routed spars, using shorter pieces of wood. It is
probably lighter as well.
The designer has been unwilling to sell plans for the spar into the US, I guess for liability reasons. There is a picture at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/boxspar.jpg
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Jim Wills wing
Date: May 03, 2008
Oscar,
I like the picture. Must be one of my better ones!!!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Saturday, 3 May 2008 12:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Wills wing
Tim; I believe the "Jim Wills wing" is the built-up spar design that the UK
authorities approved and that is used by most/all of the UK builders. It is
a box spar with top and bottom spar caps, a plywood shear face, and filler
pieces at the tip, root, and lift strut attach points as well as having
vertical stiffeners along the length of it. The beauty of it is that it can
be built at much lower cost than solid or routed spars, using shorter pieces
of wood. It is probably lighter as well.
The designer has been unwilling to sell plans for the spar into the US, I
guess for liability reasons. There is a picture at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/boxspar.jpg
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Checked by AVG.
5:30 PM
Checked by AVG.
5:30 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Riblett 30U-612 airfoil
Date: May 02, 2008
Tim;
The Riblett "612" airfoil is very similar to the NACA 4412 airfoil that has
also been discussed here. Both of those airfoils are deeper than the Piet
enpol, allowing for lighter spars and ribs, increased volume where a fuel t
ank can go in the wing, and both of them have less undercamber than the Pie
tenpol airfoil. With a 60" chord, a 12% airfoil is a bit over 7" deep as c
ompared with the Pietenpol at 4" deep. Mike Shuck has done somewhat of an
analysis of them vs. the Pietenpol airfoil and there are some benefits to u
sing one or the other.
There is an image of the NACA and Riblett airfoils at http://www.flysquirre
l.net/piets/airfoils.jpg and you can see for yourself roughly what they loo
k like. For our purposes, the two are essentially equal and I think either
would compare to the Pietenpol airfoil in the same ways.Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at htt
p://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jim Wills wing
Date: May 02, 2008
Peter wrote-
>I like the picture. Must be one of my better ones!!!
I'm an equal opportunity photo thief, mate. I'll steal anything from anybody ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Gusset questions
Date: May 02, 2008
Don't forget to sand the whole sheet before cutting. You'll figure out
why...if you don't.
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gusset questions
>
>
> A couple of questions about the gussets on the wing ribs....
>
> I have the full size rib print, although I didn't use it to layout the
> jig. I'm cutting pieces of thin cardboard to match the gussets as shown on
> the full size print, and then I'll use those patterns for cutting gussets
> from the sheet of 1.5mm birch ply we bought from AS&S. Are there any
> discrepancies in the gussets as shown on the full size print?
>
> The top gusset on the rear spar upright is a rather odd shape, insofar as
> how it extends down the 45 degree rib member. I wonder if it would be
> better to just extend it out to be a full square so it might be a little
> stronger. Of course, then I look at it and think that if it needed to be
> that way then it would have been drawn that way. :P
>
> Otherwise I think I've found most of the posts on the other things to be
> careful of: scuffing the birch before gluing, cut the gussets out so you
> have vertical grain orientation. I was thinking of using weights on the
> gussets and leaving the rib in the jig overnight to dry. Stapling (and
> removing the staples later) sounded good as well, speeding up the process,
> but I worry about having the gusset shift when the staple is driven in. Is
> this a concern?
>
> Thanks for the help,
>
> Ryan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180454#180454
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corvair items
Ok Fellow Pieters.........
Finding parts for the Corvair, where are most of you purchasing your supplies
such as:
Coils, plug wires(type), Plugs, MSD switcher....etc. Just interested who has
found the best prices on these parts.
Ken H
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair items
Date: May 04, 2008
Ken:
For Corvair parts:
Not the only source but the certainly the most comprehensive and
reliable
Clark's:
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main
and a few more:
http://www.larryscorvair.com/
http://corvaircentral.com/
http://www.corvairunderground.com/
Coil switchers are actually from after market racing outfiters:
http://www.msdignition.com/coil_acc_2.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Ok Fellow Pieters.........
Finding parts for the Corvair, where are most of you purchasing your
supplies such as:
Coils, plug wires(type), Plugs, MSD switcher....etc. Just interested
who has found the best prices on these parts.
Ken H
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair items
Hey Micheal,,
Thanks very much!
I know Dan the Fireman from MPLS has used many parts also. I believe he is using
a deep oil pan from Clarks and many other stock items as well. Maybe he can
post some of his parts he found and his source/item numbers.
Ken H
Michael Silvius wrote:
Ken:
For Corvair parts:
Not the only source but the certainly the most comprehensive and reliable
Clark's:
http://www.corvair.com/user-cgi/main
and a few more:
http://www.larryscorvair.com/
http://corvaircentral.com/
http://www.corvairunderground.com/
Coil switchers are actually from after market racing outfiters:
http://www.msdignition.com/coil_acc_2.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
Ok Fellow Pieters.........
Finding parts for the Corvair, where are most of you purchasing your supplies
such as:
Coils, plug wires(type), Plugs, MSD switcher....etc. Just interested who has
found the best prices on these parts.
Ken H
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 30U-612 airfoil
From: "MikeD" <mjdt(at)auracom.com>
Date: May 04, 2008
taildrags(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> For our purposes, the two are essentially equal and I think either would compare
to the Pietenpol airfoil in the same ways.
I am jumping in anew into the airfoil thread out of great interest, and it is likely
that I have missed some of the historical discussion leading up to this
post. So I am asking for "one free dumb question" here to save me a lot of searching
that I am admittedly poor at.
Having just bought a Piet project and staring lovingly at the relationships in
a completely subjective vs. objective manner, it seems to me that it is bordering
on minimal tail volume with the short tail moment and what is a lot of wing
area for an aircraft this size (I haven't figured out yet if the word "petite"
suits here). I think I'll run the numbers on it (like I am sure many of you
have before!) for fun and convince myself one way or the other.
But my possibly dumb question is this - is the low tail volume of the Piet planform,
and the pitching moment coefficients of most alternate airfoils compared
to the original, an issue that limits freedom with airfoil selection for the
Piet? The stock Piet airfoil "looks" like it may have a low pitching moment with
it's crude similarity to some flying wing airfoils. I thought I read somewhere
that this was a point of concern. Mind you the Baby Ace at our hangar looks
like it had it's tail cropped too. Within limits the lower the tail volume,
the narrower the CG margin until you leave the "green zone" and hit the neutral
stability regime or worse, and I realize these aircraft fly stably as they are.
But it is on my mind.
Mike D.
--------
Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181160#181160
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Williams <ewilliams805(at)msn.com>
Subject: EAA video clip
Date: May 05, 2008
Wow, that was really beautiful. I can't wait to go. Not sure how I'm gonn
a get there but I'll just have to find a way. I was there for a short trip
in '03 and have wanted to get back ever since.
> Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:03:07 -0400> From: billmz(at)cox.net> To: pietenpol
-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: EAA video clip> > --> Pietenp
ol-List message posted by: > > > Not sure if any of you hav
e seen this, but it was sent to me by a pilot friend of mine. It's a video
clip about the EAA, narrated by Harrison Ford. It's about 17 minutes long,
but worth watching. There's even a brief appearance of Dick Navratil's Rote
c-powered Piet. Enjoy!> > http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1
===================> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 04, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and oshkosh? I think
this will be the last time I will be able to make both for many years (planning
to start having kids soon, very soon!). We have the Piet almost ready for
the year. We added a steerable tailwheel, bungee covers, and messing with the
cowling design for cooling air. I have been looking at the front "pit" and sizing
it up for tent, sleeping bag and cooler if I go to OSH this year. The good
thing is Dad will go to Brodhead for sure, so I don't have to haul too much
junk for the whole trip from central Ohio to Brodhead, OSH and back. I would
leave Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue AM and head for home.
Shad Bell
NX92GB
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
I'm flying into Milwaukee on Friday July 25, and driving to Brodhead for
the weekend, then driving to Oshkosh on Sunday and staying till
Thursday. I'm planning to camp both places and probably buying half the
equipment in Wis. Haven't bought a tent yet. I'm in Florida, and my
Piet is still at least a year from completion, so who knows if I'll
every be flying in. I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
shad bell wrote:
> Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and
> oshkosh? I think this will be the last time I will be able to make
> both for many years (planning to start having kids soon, very soon!).
> We have the Piet almost ready for the year. We added a steerable
> tailwheel, bungee covers, and messing with the cowling design for
> cooling air. I have been looking at the front "pit" and sizing it up
> for tent, sleeping bag and cooler if I go to OSH this year. The good
> thing is Dad will go to Brodhead for sure, so I don't have to haul too
> much junk for the whole trip from central Ohio to Brodhead, OSH and
> back. I would leave Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue AM and head
> for home.
>
> Shad Bell
> NX92GB
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Date: May 05, 2008
I'm planning on driving from Springfield Ohio to Broadhead an maybe on
to Oshkosh.
Tim White
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and oshkosh?
I think this will be the last time I will be able to make both for many
years (planning to start having kids soon, very soon!). We have the
Piet almost ready for the year. We added a steerable tailwheel, bungee
covers, and messing with the cowling design for cooling air. I have
been looking at the front "pit" and sizing it up for tent, sleeping bag
and cooler if I go to OSH this year. The good thing is Dad will go to
Brodhead for sure, so I don't have to haul too much junk for the whole
trip from central Ohio to Brodhead, OSH and back. I would leave
Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue AM and head for home.
Shad Bell
NX92GB
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Be a better friend, newshound, and
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Just Brodhead for me this eyar. I don't have enough vacation time (or
money) to do both. I guess I could do like I did last year and fly the
RV-4 then visit both, but the Pietenpol takes much longer to fly (2 days
each way, vs 4 hours each way in the RV-4), but the Pietenpol is more
fun, and that's what it is all about. So I'll fly the Pietenpol,
hopefully arriving at Brodhead on Thursday efternoon, leaving Sunday
morning to return to North Carolina.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and oshkosh?
I think this will be the last time I will be able to make both for many
years (planning to start having kids soon, very soon!). We have the
Piet almost ready for the year. We added a steerable tailwheel, bungee
covers, and messing with the cowling design for cooling air. I have
been looking at the front "pit" and sizing it up for tent, sleeping bag
and cooler if I go to OSH this year. The good thing is Dad will go to
Brodhead for sure, so I don't have to haul too much junk for the whole
trip from central Ohio to Brodhead, OSH and back. I would leave
Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue AM and head for home.
Shad Bell
NX92GB
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
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Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: WW Manual
Everyone keeps mentioning the WW Conversion manual. Well I went and
"purchased?" it on-line using my Pay-Pal account . the charge has hit my
credit card, yet no manual.
I have sent several emails concerning different things . no reply. I have
called their number "many times" and left messages on some sort of answering
machine or voice mail . no return call.
Yet, people say they are the "King", the best, have become good friends with
. yet I can't get a simple phone call returned and I am still waiting on the
manual . geez!
Milt Atkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
I will more than likely get suck again in Rockford Illinois for business and
be forced to spend another weekend there with noting to do and so far from
home. There is a strong chance I'll wonder outside of Rockford and find myself
lost in Wisconsin at some small obscure airport for a day or so which if
fortunate I may see some Pietenpol's there. Gosh I dread the thought of such a
misfortune I may even run into some folks I met previous years travels or
visitors to my own work shop.
I sure hope I don't get stuck in Rockford that weekend, I would much rather
be home mowing the lawn and doing chores than looking at Pietenpol airplanes,
hanging out with old and new friends and perhaps consuming adult beverage if
the opportunity arises.
BTW I expect to arrive Broadhead Early Saturday Morning for anyone
interested, I may even bring a buddy, woodworking mentor and project contributor
to
see and experience Broadhead first hand.
I cant wait!
I doubt I can sell being stuck for an entire week in Oshkosh especially
since I have no business there. Broadhead well that's a different story
John
NX895BP reserved
In a message dated 5/5/2008 6:14:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
aa5flyer(at)gmail.com writes:
I'm planning on driving from Springfield Ohio to Broadhead an maybe on to
Oshkosh.
Tim White
----- Original Message -----
From: _shad bell_ (mailto:aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 2:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and oshkosh? I
think this will be the last time I will be able to make both for many years
(planning to start having kids soon, very soon!). We have the Piet almost ready
for the year. We added a steerable tailwheel, bungee covers, and messing
with the cowling design for cooling air. I have been looking at the front
"pit" and sizing it up for tent, sleeping bag and cooler if I go to OSH this
year. The good thing is Dad will go to Brodhead for sure, so I don't have to
haul too much junk for the whole trip from central Ohio to Brodhead, OSH and
back. I would leave Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue AM and head for home.
Shad Bell
NX92GB
____________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
One other thing that may make Broadhead even more interesting this year, its
the Hatz 40 year anniversary and the Hatz people are trying to organize 40
Hatz biplanes to meet at Broadhead then fly in mass to Oshkosh.
Rick
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:07 AM, shad bell wrote:
> Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and oshkosh? I
> think this will be the last time I will be able to make both for many years
> (planning to start having kids soon, very soon!). We have the Piet almost
> ready for the year. We added a steerable tailwheel, bungee covers, and
> messing with the cowling design for cooling air. I have been looking at the
> front "pit" and sizing it up for tent, sleeping bag and cooler if I go to
> OSH this year. The good thing is Dad will go to Brodhead for sure, so I
> don't have to haul too much junk for the whole trip from central Ohio to
> Brodhead, OSH and back. I would leave Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue
> AM and head for home.
>
> Shad Bell
> NX92GB
>
> ------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
My plans are a carbon copy of Ben's (you do remember what carbon paper is
don't you?)
Rick
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:57 AM, Ben Charvet wrote:
>
> I'm flying into Milwaukee on Friday July 25, and driving to Brodhead for
> the weekend, then driving to Oshkosh on Sunday and staying till Thursday.
> I'm planning to camp both places and probably buying half the equipment in
> Wis. Haven't bought a tent yet. I'm in Florida, and my Piet is still at
> least a year from completion, so who knows if I'll every be flying in. I'm
> really looking forward to meeting everyone.
>
> Ben Charvet
> Mims, Fl
>
> shad bell wrote:
>
> > Hello guys, Is anyone planning on going to both brodhead and oshkosh?
> > I think this will be the last time I will be able to make both for many
> > years (planning to start having kids soon, very soon!). We have the Piet
> > almost ready for the year. We added a steerable tailwheel, bungee covers,
> > and messing with the cowling design for cooling air. I have been looking at
> > the front "pit" and sizing it up for tent, sleeping bag and cooler if I go
> > to OSH this year. The good thing is Dad will go to Brodhead for sure, so I
> > don't have to haul too much junk for the whole trip from central Ohio to
> > Brodhead, OSH and back. I would leave Brodhead sunday AM and leave OSH Tue
> > AM and head for home.
> > Shad Bell
> > NX92GB
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: WW Manual
If it makes you fell any better know that you are not alone. It is unusual
for something like a manual to take more than a month however.
RIck
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Milt Atkinson
wrote:
> Everyone keeps mentioning the WW Conversion manual. Well I went and
> "purchased?" it on-line using my Pay-Pal account =85 the charge has hit m
y
> credit card, yet no manual.
>
>
> I have sent several emails concerning different things =85 no reply. I ha
ve
> called their number "many times" and left messages on some sort of answer
ing
> machine or voice mail =85 no return call.
>
>
> Yet, people say they are the "King", the best, have become good friends
> with =85 yet I can't get a simple phone call returned and I am still wait
ing
> on the manual =85 geez!
>
>
> Milt Atkinson
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair items
You can get the Bosch blue coils from Great Plains VW, I got the switcher,
wires, and AN fuel line hose and fittings from Summit Racing.
Rick
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:39 PM, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP <
kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ok Fellow Pieters.........
>
>
> Finding parts for the Corvair, where are most of you purchasing your
> supplies such as:
> Coils, plug wires(type), Plugs, MSD switcher....etc. Just interested who
> has found the best prices on these parts.
>
> Ken H
>
>
> *Kenn**eth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
> *
> **
>
> ------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dog67(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2008
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
If the weather gods cooperate, I hope to make both Brodhead and Osh
(assuming they let 'plastic' airplanes in at Brodhead - if I park in the back).
Piet
is still many years away from flying, but Glastar works just fine. Hope to
see some old friends, and make some new ones, at both. Might even talk my
father into going, in his 50 year old 180.
Cheers
Jon Apfelbaum
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Jon,
They let me in with my "spamcan" RV-4 last year, although I had to park
on the other side of the field. At least you're flying a homebuilt.
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol NX899JP, "Icarus Plummet"
RV-4 N18LR
Building RV-10 N142KW, "One for Tequila Whiskey"
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dog67(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
If the weather gods cooperate, I hope to make both Brodhead and Osh
(assuming they let 'plastic' airplanes in at Brodhead - if I park in the
back). Piet is still many years away from flying, but Glastar works
just fine. Hope to see some old friends, and make some new ones, at
both. Might even talk my father into going, in his 50 year old 180.
Cheers
Jon Apfelbaum
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites
at AOL Food
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
ged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas
e notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: WW Manual
Date: May 05, 2008
Milt,
They travel and his wife/partner does the mail outs and I read recently
where she was behind in office duties because the pilots that were
killed in
the Florida mid-air were friends of theirs and it hit her real hard. I
believe that you will get your manual, I did and it is real useful. My
style
is to read something all the way through and think it over. So once you
get
it my suggestion is to take time to read it-all-the way through-first.
IN
the meantime work on something else.
It took about six weeks to get mine too.
RS
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Atkinson
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:19 AM
aircraft'
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WW Manual
Everyone keeps mentioning the WW Conversion manual. Well I went and
"purchased?" it on-line using my Pay-Pal account . the charge has hit my
credit card, yet no manual.
I have sent several emails concerning different things . no reply. I
have
called their number "many times" and left messages on some sort of
answering
machine or voice mail . no return call.
Yet, people say they are the "King", the best, have become good friends
with
. yet I can't get a simple phone call returned and I am still waiting on
the
manual . geez!
Milt Atkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 05, 2008
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
Guys,
I will fly my Aeronca Sedan into Brodhead (depends on WX) on Friday morning
early. I will be giving free left seat taildragger "instruction" rides (not a
CFI) to any Pietenpol builders. Look for my airplane (red, N1152H). Call my
cell Friday or Saturday for scheduling (815) 298-5680. I might fly into OSH
on Sunday, depending on WX. If a miracle happens, I MIGHT fly my Pietenpol into
Brodhead on "09. Looking forward to it
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: WW Manual
Hang in their..they received my paypal monies and it was over three months to get
parts! The return of funds was just as long!
Ken
Rick Holland wrote:
If it makes you fell any better know that you are not alone. It is unusual for
something like a manual to take more than a month however.
RIck
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Milt Atkinson wrote:
Everyone keeps mentioning the WW Conversion manual. Well I went and "purchased?"
it on-line using my Pay-Pal account the charge has hit my credit card,
yet no manual.
I have sent several emails concerning different things no reply. I have called
their number "many times" and left messages on some sort of answering machine
or voice mail no return call.
Yet, people say they are the "King", the best, have become good friends with
yet I can't get a simple phone call returned and I am still waiting on the manual
geez!
Milt Atkinson
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol Documentary
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: May 05, 2008
Yesterday I got an email from Jen Larson who was at Brodhead last year as part
of a short film production outfit. She was doing a documentary on the Pietenpol.
I put the trailer up on my site because it wasn't working from theirs. They
appear to have their site working now but the trailer for their video plays
in a small box, the trailer they sent me plays full screen from my link. Anyway,
the DVD has some clips of interviews with Don and Andrew Pietenpol, discussion
of the notes Bernard made as he worked out the details of his original
design and some Brodhead footage. I thought it was cool that they did it and
I'll be getting one.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181376#181376
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: May 06, 2008
The only thing a committed pieter can ask is how do I get one?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:19:03
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Documentary
Yesterday I got an email from Jen Larson who was at Brodhead last year as part
of a short film production outfit. She was doing a documentary on the Pietenpol.
I put the trailer up on my site because it wasn't working from theirs. They
appear to have their site working now but the trailer for their video plays
in a small box, the trailer they sent me plays full screen from my link. Anyway,
the DVD has some clips of interviews with Don and Andrew Pietenpol, discussion
of the notes Bernard made as he worked out the details of his original
design and some Brodhead footage. I thought it was cool that they did it and
I'll be getting one.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181376#181376
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 05, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
Go to www.pietenpolmovie.com
They have a paypal link or something to order it. I'm looking forward to
seeing what isn't in the trailer.
On 5/5/08, John Recine wrote:
>
> AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
>
> The only thing a committed pieter can ask is how do I get one?
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
>
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:19:03
> To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Documentary
>
>
> glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
>
> Yesterday I got an email from Jen Larson who was at Brodhead last year as
> part of a short film production outfit. She was doing a documentary on the
> Pietenpol. I put the trailer up on my site because it wasn't working from
> theirs. They appear to have their site working now but the trailer for
> their video plays in a small box, the trailer they sent me plays full screen
> from my link. Anyway, the DVD has some clips of interviews with Don and
> Andrew Pietenpol, discussion of the notes Bernard made as he worked out the
> details of his original design and some Brodhead footage. I thought it was
> cool that they did it and I'll be getting one.
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181376#181376
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
Date: May 05, 2008
I'm hoping to be flying my new Piet into Brodhead, with any luck. I
have 15.5 hrs on it now and with each flight I am making changes and
working out bugs. I flew for 1.1 hr today and returned to find an oil
leak on the firewall.
After Brodhead I'm flying home then taking the camper to OSH.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 05, 2008
Glenn,
Thanks for making us aware of this great looking documentary. I even spotted myself
in the background of one of the shots in the trailer. I immediately clicked
the "Buy Now" button, but couldn't get it to work, but I think I figured out
how to order a copy without using that button. If I get a reply that confirms
my method I'll post it to the list.
Can't wait to see the whole thing!
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181411#181411
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 05, 2008
Glenn,
Thanks for making us aware of this great looking documentary. I even spotted myself
in the background of one of the shots in the trailer. I immediately clicked
the "Buy Now" button, but couldn't get it to work, but I think I figured out
how to order a copy without using that button. If I get a reply that confirms
my method I'll post it to the list.
Can't wait to see the whole thing!
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181412#181412
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike McCarty" <mgmccarty(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Brodhead crash
Date: May 05, 2008
Published - Monday, May 05, 2008
Amateur-built plane crashes in Green County, kills 1
.
BRODHEAD, Wis. (AP) - An amateur-built, single-engine plane crashed in
rural Green County, killing the pilot, authorities said today.
Authorities received a 911 call from a passing motorist around 5 p.m.
that a plane had crashed in a field next to the Brodhead Airport,
Sheriff Randy Roderick said.
The privately owned airport is in Spring Grove Township, about a
half-mile from Brodhead and 30 miles south of Madison.
Emergency personnel discovered the male pilot as the only person in the
aircraft and the Green County coroner pronounced him dead at the scene.
Authorities were withholding his name until his relatives are notified.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 05, 2008
We'll be at Brodhead and Osh. Unfortunately I can't take our Piet from ribs to
flying between now and then, so we will be driving. This doesn't necessarily pertain
to this list, but we'll be bringing two Corvair crankcases that are ripe
for 1/3 conversions. I would like to get nothing for them, so make us an offer
:P.
At Osh, we generally try to spend most of our time helping out a close family friend
who helps run Vintage, so if you absolutely have to find a Piet builder
we'll be in the Red Barn at the info desk (unless we are out learning other skills
such as welding, rib stitching, etc). If we're not around leave a message
with the cool kids that we do allow to man that desk, and it'll find us.
Also, if you are going to be at Osh and have some free time...head down to the
Seaplane Base and enjoy the laid back atmosphere, and buy Dennis a drink and tell
him to make us a Pietenpol shirt!
Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181420#181420
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 06, 2008
From: Pastor Mike <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead, And Oshkosh
I am hopeing to make it to Broadhead for a day or two. I have never
been there. I know I will enjoy it very much. I am really looking
forward to it. I have been to Oshkosh before and hope I can make it
there for a couple of days this year. Usually I can only go for a day
and I would like to take in more than I have in the past.
I have ordered the Riblett wing rib from Mr Rewey and am awaiting the
plan. Then I will start the ribs. I will probably be making my piet a
little wider and maybe do the longer fuselage too...since I weight 235
lbs. I don't know for sure yet what engine I will be using. I have a
bunch of honey bee equipment I have to get done then I will start
building my aircamper. I am sure going to Broadhead will provide lots
of stimulus to get going and I am hoping to get a ride in a Piet there.
Mike in Iowa
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 06, 2008
Just a quick note to say that if the "Buy Now" button doesn't work for you, you
could try the method I used, when it wouldn't work for me. By hovering the cursor
over the "Buy Now" button, I could see that it was going to send a mail message.
I sent an e-mail to jesse(at)deliciousfilmworks.com. In the subject line I entered
"Finding Flight DVD Order". In the body of the e-mail I entered the quantity
of DVDs being ordered and my name and mailing address. I got a reply back from
Jesse and a reply from Paypal. My DVD should be on its way very soon.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181444#181444
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 06, 2008
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
I did the same thing and got ine on its way this morning, cant wait for it
to get here!
John
I think Ill go outside and check the mail its been 5 minutes since I ordered
it so it should be here soon, I hope!!
In a message dated 5/6/2008 8:34:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billspiet(at)sympatico.ca writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church"
Just a quick note to say that if the "Buy Now" button doesn't work for you,
you could try the method I used, when it wouldn't work for me. By hovering
the cursor over the "Buy Now" button, I could see that it was going to send a
mail message.
I sent an e-mail to jesse(at)deliciousfilmworks.com. In the subject line I
entered "Finding Flight DVD Order". In the body of the e-mail I entered the
quantity of DVDs being ordered and my name and mailing address. I got a reply
back
from Jesse and a reply from Paypal. My DVD should be on its way very soon.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181444#181444
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 06, 2008
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
____________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: 5/6/2008 8:50:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol Documentary
I did the same thing and got ine on its way this morning, cant wait for it
to get here!
John
I think Ill go outside and check the mail its been 5 minutes since I ordered
it so it should be here soon, I hope!!
In a message dated 5/6/2008 8:34:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billspiet(at)sympatico.ca writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church"
Just a quick note to say that if the "Buy Now" button doesn't work for you,
you could try the method I used, when it wouldn't work for me. By hovering
the cursor over the "Buy Now" button, I could see that it was going to send a
mail message.
I sent an e-mail to jesse(at)deliciousfilmworks.com. In the subject line I
entered "Finding Flight DVD Order". In the body of the e-mail I entered the
quantity of DVDs being ordered and my name and mailing address. I got a reply
back
from Jesse and a reply from Paypal. My DVD should be on its way very soon.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181444#181444
____________________________________
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) .
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: May 06, 2008
Subject: Re: Brodhead and OSH
I hope to get over to Brodhead for a few hours on Friday. We always meet at
Big Foot Airport or Poplar Grove and fly a gaggle up to OSH on Saturday. Like
Jack Phillips, it won't be a Piet, but since at least the Bellanca is wood,
maybe we can park on the same side of the field at Brodhead. We'll fly up to
OSH on Saturday and be in North 40 camping. All Piet builders/fliers
(Pieters.. sounds vaguely risque) welcome to stop by for a libation. Look for
the
Women Fly/Lost Squadron group.
My Piet got moved for the third, and I hope, final time last November, into
a three car garage wide enough for the wings to go on. Engine mount, engine
overhaul and installation, and wing struts are the main things to do before
covering, but at the rate I work, that could be a year or more. Hey, it's the
journey, right!!
Matt Paxton
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead and OSH
Date: May 06, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Hey, Matt,
I'll have you know I'm flying the Pietenpol to Brodhead this year. I
didn't like having the Anti-Piet there last year, even though it was a
much quicker trip. I'll be slogging across the country in the Pietenpol
(wx permitting), arriving at Brodhead Thursday afternoon and staying
till Sunday morning, when I'll head back home. Can't afford OSH this
year.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead and OSH
I hope to get over to Brodhead for a few hours on Friday. We always meet
at Big Foot Airport or Poplar Grove and fly a gaggle up to OSH on
Saturday. Like Jack Phillips, it won't be a Piet, but since at least the
Bellanca is wood, maybe we can park on the same side of the field at
Brodhead. We'll fly up to OSH on Saturday and be in North 40 camping.
All Piet builders/fliers (Pieters.. sounds vaguely risque) welcome to
stop by for a libation. Look for the Women Fly/Lost Squadron group.
My Piet got moved for the third, and I hope, final time last November,
into a three car garage wide enough for the wings to go on. Engine
mount, engine overhaul and installation, and wing struts are the main
things to do before covering, but at the rate I work, that could be a
year or more. Hey, it's the journey, right!!
Matt Paxton
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites
at AOL Food
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
ged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas
e notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: WW Manual
Date: May 06, 2008
Hi
I also ordered a manual about a month ago via Paypal and received it in abo
ut 2 weeks, This also involved a mail transfer to a new address.
Be patient a bit longer.
Steve in Maine
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 08:03:03 -0600
From: at7000ft(at)gmail.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WW Manual
If it makes you fell any better know that you are not alone. It is unusual
for something like a manual to take more than a month however.
RIck
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 6:19 AM, Milt Atkinson wr
ote:
Everyone keeps mentioning the WW Conversion manual. Well I
went and "purchased?" it on-line using my Pay-Pal account =85
the charge has hit my credit card, yet no manual.
I have sent several emails concerning different things =85
no reply. I have called their number "many times" and left messages
on some sort of answering machine or voice mail =85 no return call.
Yet, people say they are the "King", the best,
have become good friends with =85 yet I can't get a simple phone call
returned and I am still waiting on the manual =85 geez!
Milt Atkinson
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 07, 2008
Subject: Taildragger time at Brodhead
Hi all,
I wanted to clarify my offer of taildragger time at Brodhead (available to
Pietenpol builders). My airplane is an Aeronca 15AC Sedan, which is a four
place with the control wheels in the front. Some have thought this would be
"stick" time. It will still be valuable taildragger time I think, even though
it
won't be behind a stick. Just want you all to know. Looking forward to it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Taildragger time at Brodhead
I would have to say, without hesitation, that ride in you offered me was the
highlight of Brodhead last year. This year I will find you for sure.
On 5/7/08, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to clarify my offer of taildragger time at Brodhead (available to
> Pietenpol builders). My airplane is an Aeronca 15AC Sedan, which is a four
> place with the control wheels in the front. Some have thought this would be
> "stick" time. It will still be valuable taildragger time I think, even
> though it won't be behind a stick. Just want you all to know. Looking
> forward to it.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
> AOL Food <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001>.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Taildragger time at Brodhead
I'll bring lots of pictures of my project to prove my status as a builder.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl;
>
>
> I wanted to clarify my offer of taildragger time at Brodhead
> (available to Pietenpol builders). My airplane is an Aeronca 15AC
> Sedan, which is a four place with the control wheels in the front.
> Some have thought this would be "stick" time. It will still be
> valuable taildragger time I think, even though it won't be behind
> a stick. Just want you all to know. Looking forward to it.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 07, 2008
I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes, distances, times,
fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same no matter
what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight at Corky's.
That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from Shreveport to Little
Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the annual
KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight but somewhere
in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria area and on
to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the opening day of
the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday afternoon,
Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon Sunday, July
27th.
Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and stops. I know
by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air Force
trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine still
ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find me slouched
in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket open and goggles
pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me downing some cold
brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th birthday that
day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and rudder
every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon means I'd pay
about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"... plus five
days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the flight
at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its spirit.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Sad news about the Brodhead Bathtub
Date: May 07, 2008
I know this isn't directly Piet related, but I'm sure many of you would
agree that anyone who flies from there is at some significant level "one of
us" whether they actually have a Piet or not. I admired the wild little
new-build Dormoy Bathtub sporting an original Heath engine that was there
last year... so it was really heartbreaking to find this report in the FAA
preliminary incident data. Condolences to the pilot's family and what I'm
sure is many, many friends.
****************************************************************************
****
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 538 Make/Model: EXP Description: EXP BATHTUB 2007
Date: 05/05/2008 Time: 2203
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed
LOCATION
City: BRODHEAD State: WI Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES INTO A FIELD, THE ONE PERSON
ON BOARD WAS FATALLY INJURED, NEAR BRODHEAD, WI
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: JVL2245Z 80010KT 10SM SCT110 23/00 A2995
OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: MILWAUKEE, WI (GL13) Entry date: 05/06/2008
****************************************************************************
****
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Taildragger time at Brodhead
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 07, 2008
Dan,
If you don't mind lugging a not-yet-pilot Pietenpol builder around, I won't even
mention that your plane has a wheel instead of a stick. I'd love to get a ride
in a classic plane like yours.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181846#181846
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2008
From: Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
Oscar,
That is quite an bunch of money to go to a fly in isn't it? But like
you say, you have to do it at least once!! I hope you do get to
Broadhead and have a ball!
Blessings,
Mike in Iowa
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes, distances,
times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same no matter
what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight at Corky's.
That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
>
> Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from Shreveport to
Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the annual
KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight but somewhere
in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
>
> Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria area and on
to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the opening day
of the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday afternoon,
Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon Sunday, July
27th.
>
> Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and stops. I know
by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air Force
trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine still
ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find me slouched
in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket open and
goggles pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me downing some
cold brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th birthday that
day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and rudder
every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
>
> I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon means I'd
pay about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"... plus
five days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the flight
at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its
spirit.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sad news about the Brodhead Bathtub
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 07, 2008
This showed up in the inbox today:
--------------------
MAAC - Sad News
MAAC Member Denny Trone was killed Monday evening in the crash of his
Dormoy "Bathtub." A stall/spin accident on final to the Brodhead
airport.
Services will be held Saturday in Petersburg, Il.
--------------------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181858#181858
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com" <tmbrant1(at)netzero.net>
Date: May 08, 2008
Subject: Re: Taildragger time at Brodhead
stick, wheel, weight shift... As long it's got the two big wheels in the front
and the little one in the back it is a taildragger. I'd love to take you up
on it if you don't get too swamped.
Tom B.
_____________________________________________________________
Click to go wireless with your computer, ultra fast speed.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijmWbwj46eeWFOoDODfCJhSZLTzBjWN57ts4829sJ0Q8yoczc/?count=1234567890
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 07, 2008
From: Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: Sad news about the Brodhead Bathtub
That is sad, we will be in prayer for the family and friends.
Mike in Iowa
Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
> This showed up in the inbox today:
> --------------------
> MAAC - Sad News
>
> MAAC Member Denny Trone was killed Monday evening in the crash of his
> Dormoy "Bathtub." A stall/spin accident on final to the Brodhead
> airport.
>
> Services will be held Saturday in Petersburg, Il.
> --------------------
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181858#181858
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 08, 2008
Subject: Re: Taildragger time at Brodhead
All,
If you are seriously intending to be a Pietenpol Builder you will still
qualify for this offer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 08, 2008
Subject: Re: Taildragger time at Brodhead
Dan,
As a fellow builder its nice to know that particular distinction buys us a
ticket!
Thanks
John Recine
In a message dated 5/8/2008 6:20:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:
All,
If you are seriously intending to be a Pietenpol Builder you will still
qualify for this offer.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
____________________________________
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) .
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Sad news about the Brodhead Bathtub
Date: May 08, 2008
>From www.landings.com I see that Mr. Trone was also the owner of several of
the fantastic antique and replica aircraft based at the Brodhead airport,
including a 1924 Lincoln Sport, 1928 Thunderbird, Eaglerock, 1929 Bird A,
1917 Polson Special, and the Harley Davidson powered Snyder Baby Bomber.
Sad news indeed.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 08, 2008
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Oscar,
My hat off to you if can make that in three days, prevailing winds from
the south it could be possible.
I would add a day for bad weather or other unexpected delays.
My short flight (4 hours) to Hondo and the 4 hours back the next day
thought me that it can wear you out.
Dreaming about the once in a life time trip to Brodhead but not this
year.
Planning for Old Kingsbury on the 24th
Good luck and fair winds
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:02 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes,
distances,
times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same no
matter
what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight at
Corky's.
That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from
Shreveport to
Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the
annual
KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight
but
somewhere in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria area
and on
to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the
opening day of
the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday
afternoon,
Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon
Sunday, July
27th.
Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and
stops. I know
by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air
Force
trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine
still
ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find
me
slouched in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket
open and
goggles pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me
downing some
cold brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th
birthday that
day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and
rudder
every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon
means I'd pay
about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"...
plus five
days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the
flight
at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its
spirit.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
When I bought my GN-1, I flew it from South Bend, Indiana to Sherman,
Texas, somewhere over 800 statute miles. I did in in three days
pretty easy, but I had good weather. That will be the key for you.
If you have good weather and a solid plane, you'll make it without
problems. On day two of my trip I flew about 8 hours, somewhere
around 500 miles. It wasn't bad, I just walked a little funny when I
got out. Being 27 years old helped though. I had a huge smile on my
face all three days, and for a few weeks afterwards.
If you can do it Oscar, go for it. You will not regret it. My trip
was one of the most fun things I have ever done in my life. I met
some great people, and still talk to a couple of them occasionally.
If you need to go through the Oklahoma City area on your way home, let
me know, I'll put you and your plane up overnight (actually the hangar
is in Slaughterville, OK, a ways south of OKC). It would be a little
out of the way, but if you had to divert east for weather, it might be
a good stop for you.
Pictures and stories of my trip:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting hvandervoo(at)aol.com:
>
> Oscar,
>
> My hat off to you if can make that in three days, prevailing winds from
> the south it could be possible.
> I would add a day for bad weather or other unexpected delays.
>
> My short flight (4 hours) to Hondo and the 4 hours back the next day
> thought me that it can wear you out.
>
> Dreaming about the once in a life time trip to Brodhead but not this year.
> Planning for Old Kingsbury on the 24th
>
> Good luck and fair winds
>
> Hans
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List
> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:02 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
>
>
> I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes, distances,
> times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same
> no matter
> what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight
> at Corky's.
> That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
>
> Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from Shreveport to
> Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the annual
> KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight but
> somewhere in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
>
> Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria
> area and on
> to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the
> opening day of
> the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday afternoon,
> Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon Sunday, July
> 27th.
>
> Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and
> stops. I know
> by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air Force
> trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine still
> ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find me
> slouched in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket
> open and
> goggles pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me downing some
> cold brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th
> birthday that
> day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and rudder
> every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
>
> I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon
> means I'd pay
> about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"... plus five
> days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the flight
> at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its
> spirit.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 08, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Come on, Oscar. No Cajones at all if you don't do it at least once. I
did it in 2005 and hope to again this year. Taking a somewhat
circuitous route (I've got some mountains to go over or around - nothing
like Steve Eldredge had, though) my trip will be 1,120 miles each way,
for a total of just under 17 hours of flying (if there's no wind), each
way. 4 days in the air, plus 2 on the ground at Brodhead and an extra
day for bad weather means a week of vacation. That's the main reason
I'm not including OSH this time. That and the fact that I would easily
spend another $700 on entry fees and bad food.
So for 34 hours of flying (plus whatever I do in Brodhead) at 4.5
gallons an hour and $5 per gallon, the trip will end up costing $765
worth of gas. But where else can you eat a $700 pork chop and sit
surrounded by Pietenpols, and Pietenpolers. And you'll find that it IS
addictive, and you'll want to do it more than once. Three years is
about the right amount of time for the memories of butt-numbness to fade
away.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
"Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Ruse
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
When I bought my GN-1, I flew it from South Bend, Indiana to Sherman,
Texas, somewhere over 800 statute miles. I did in in three days
pretty easy, but I had good weather. That will be the key for you.
If you have good weather and a solid plane, you'll make it without
problems. On day two of my trip I flew about 8 hours, somewhere
around 500 miles. It wasn't bad, I just walked a little funny when I
got out. Being 27 years old helped though. I had a huge smile on my
face all three days, and for a few weeks afterwards.
If you can do it Oscar, go for it. You will not regret it. My trip
was one of the most fun things I have ever done in my life. I met
some great people, and still talk to a couple of them occasionally.
If you need to go through the Oklahoma City area on your way home, let
me know, I'll put you and your plane up overnight (actually the hangar
is in Slaughterville, OK, a ways south of OKC). It would be a little
out of the way, but if you had to divert east for weather, it might be
a good stop for you.
Pictures and stories of my trip:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting hvandervoo(at)aol.com:
>
> Oscar,
>
> My hat off to you if can make that in three days, prevailing winds
from
> the south it could be possible.
> I would add a day for bad weather or other unexpected delays.
>
> My short flight (4 hours) to Hondo and the 4 hours back the next day
> thought me that it can wear you out.
>
> Dreaming about the once in a life time trip to Brodhead but not this
year.
> Planning for Old Kingsbury on the 24th
>
> Good luck and fair winds
>
> Hans
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List
> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:02 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
>
>
>
>
> I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes,
distances,
> times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same
> no matter
> what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight
> at Corky's.
> That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
>
> Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from
Shreveport to
> Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the
annual
> KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight
but
> somewhere in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
>
> Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria
> area and on
> to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the
> opening day of
> the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday
afternoon,
> Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon
Sunday, July
> 27th.
>
> Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and
> stops. I know
> by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air
Force
> trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine
still
> ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find
me
> slouched in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket
> open and
> goggles pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me
downing some
> cold brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th
> birthday that
> day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and
rudder
> every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
>
> I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon
> means I'd pay
> about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"...
plus five
> days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the
flight
> at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in
its
> spirit.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
Date: May 08, 2008
Steve Ruse wrote-
>Pictures and stories of my trip: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/
Excellent. I'll start compiling a list of possible nifty places to stop (thanks,
Perry and others)- including Wehrman's grass strip that you have pix of on
this webpage. By the way, Steve, looking at AirNav to get info on Wehrman field
I notice that the picture on their info page is one that you took. Now we're
talking Pietenpol country! No sense wasting a good landing by doing it on
asphalt, when there are perfectly good grass strips still around.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 08, 2008
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
Gang,
FYI Poplar Grove has unbranded auto fuel (no alcohol) for current car gas
prices. Last week I paid $3.65.
Not that that is so cheap but at least its not what you pay for 100LL.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 08, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Dan forgot to mention that Poplar Grove is also a very nice airport full
of interesting people, and they have a nice grass runway in addition to
the paved ones
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
Gang,
FYI Poplar Grove has unbranded auto fuel (no alcohol) for current car
gas prices. Last week I paid $3.65.
Not that that is so cheap but at least its not what you pay for 100LL.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites
at AOL Food
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
_________________________________________________
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orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 08, 2008
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
Absolutely Oscar! It was a really neat place, I really liked it. I
was lucky to stop at a random grass strip early on a Sunday morning in
an area I knew nothing about...to find that they had fuel available!
They were very friendly and hospitable, and had a hangar full of
planes and parts. That one stop on essentially a farm strip must've
been a lot like a typical cross country stop 70 years ago when Bernard
was flying.
I would call Howard before you go if you plan on making it. When I
was there three years ago he was in his mid eighties I believe. Still
flying and in great shape though. Anyway, you might want to call and
make sure he still has fuel. He took some pictures of me and my plane
while I was there, he has a wall full of pictures, I bet I'm on there
somewhere now. If you see it, tell him Steve Ruse from Texas sent
you, and point out the yellow plane.
Steve Ruse
Quoting Oscar Zuniga :
>
>
> Steve Ruse wrote-
>
>> Pictures and stories of my trip:
>> http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/
>
> Excellent. I'll start compiling a list of possible nifty places to
> stop (thanks, Perry and others)- including Wehrman's grass strip
> that you have pix of on this webpage. By the way, Steve, looking at
> AirNav to get info on Wehrman field I notice that the picture on
> their info page is one that you took. Now we're talking Pietenpol
> country! No sense wasting a good landing by doing it on asphalt,
> when there are perfectly good grass strips still around.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 08, 2008
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
Jack (Textor)
Thanks for the drink(s). I guess I will have to plan on camping over now
instead of flying home to sleep in my bed!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: May 08, 2008
That's funny, I smiled reading your story. I've got a similar one.
Last summer, my dad called me on a Friday afternoon and asked if i'd like to go
with him to St Louis and fly back in a plane that he bought on eBay. He said
it was a Rans Coyote II and the owner said it cruises 95mph. So we left Love
field at 4:00am Monday on SW. 1hr 45min there. We rode with the owner about
an hour west to a little airport on the MO river. We hopped in this tiny little
thing and took off at about noon, no radio, gyro, intercom, or ear plugs.
First thing is that a rotax 582 is wicked loud. I had a cleanex so we quartered
it and stuffed it in our ears. We then realized that the cabin heat door would
not stay closed. I pulled a piece of loose thread from the velcro on one
of the wiring harness covers and tied the cable in the closed position. Giggling
the whole time of course. We were watching our fuel consumption and it had
used almost the entire left tank up without even touching the right. Only when
I found an airport to divert to and changed my heading did it start to use
fuel from the right tank. In 5 minutes gravity balanced the two tanks and were
both showing half full. Our first leg was the longest and our first stop was
of course the airport that dad couldn't get on the phone, and they didn't have
fuel. There was a fellow who was there and showed me on the chart that fayetteville
was the closest place that had fuel, 30 miles away, just at the limit
of the spec. Range for the ac. There we got fuel, two bags of chips, and glorious
earplugs. We made our next stop in OK event free and then on to midlothian
TX. We got there about 30min after sunset, which was good since we had
no nav or landing lights. 510 nautical miles in 8hrs and 38min. Did I say that
the 95 cruise is actually 65! I did get a pic of the air speed indicator at
95, in a steep dive.
My dad tells people about it all the time. He says it was the best day that he
can remember. He looks to me hoping for the same reply. I just say, the longer
ago it gets, the more fun it was.
Jeremy in Dallas, TX
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:55:54
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
When I bought my GN-1, I flew it from South Bend, Indiana to Sherman,
Texas, somewhere over 800 statute miles. I did in in three days
pretty easy, but I had good weather. That will be the key for you.
If you have good weather and a solid plane, you'll make it without
problems. On day two of my trip I flew about 8 hours, somewhere
around 500 miles. It wasn't bad, I just walked a little funny when I
got out. Being 27 years old helped though. I had a huge smile on my
face all three days, and for a few weeks afterwards.
If you can do it Oscar, go for it. You will not regret it. My trip
was one of the most fun things I have ever done in my life. I met
some great people, and still talk to a couple of them occasionally.
If you need to go through the Oklahoma City area on your way home, let
me know, I'll put you and your plane up overnight (actually the hangar
is in Slaughterville, OK, a ways south of OKC). It would be a little
out of the way, but if you had to divert east for weather, it might be
a good stop for you.
Pictures and stories of my trip:
http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting hvandervoo(at)aol.com:
>
> Oscar,
>
> My hat off to you if can make that in three days, prevailing winds from
> the south it could be possible.
> I would add a day for bad weather or other unexpected delays.
>
> My short flight (4 hours) to Hondo and the 4 hours back the next day
> thought me that it can wear you out.
>
> Dreaming about the once in a life time trip to Brodhead but not this year.
> Planning for Old Kingsbury on the 24th
>
> Good luck and fair winds
>
> Hans
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List
> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:02 pm
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
>
>
> I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes, distances,
> times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same
> no matter
> what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight
> at Corky's.
> That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
>
> Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from Shreveport to
> Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the annual
> KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight but
> somewhere in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
>
> Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria
> area and on
> to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the
> opening day of
> the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday afternoon,
> Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon Sunday, July
> 27th.
>
> Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and
> stops. I know
> by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air Force
> trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine still
> ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find me
> slouched in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket
> open and
> goggles pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me downing some
> cold brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th
> birthday that
> day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and rudder
> every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
>
> I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon
> means I'd pay
> about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"... plus five
> days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the flight
> at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its
> spirit.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
Date: May 08, 2008
Howard Wehrem is around and giving instruction. Him and his wife are very
nice people and very enjoyable to be around. He gave me my tailwheel
endorsment when we finnished our Champ restoration somewhere around 2000 and
he still does'nt wear glasses except to read fine print. I just talked to
hime a few weeks ago. Steve Singleton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
>
>
> Absolutely Oscar! It was a really neat place, I really liked it. I was
> lucky to stop at a random grass strip early on a Sunday morning in an
> area I knew nothing about...to find that they had fuel available! They
> were very friendly and hospitable, and had a hangar full of planes and
> parts. That one stop on essentially a farm strip must've been a lot like
> a typical cross country stop 70 years ago when Bernard was flying.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
Date: May 08, 2008
Thanks for the update on Howard, that is good to hear. It is amazing how
small the aviation world is.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
>
>
> Howard Wehrem is around and giving instruction. Him and his wife are very
> nice people and very enjoyable to be around. He gave me my tailwheel
> endorsment when we finnished our Champ restoration somewhere around 2000
> and he still does'nt wear glasses except to read fine print. I just talked
> to hime a few weeks ago. Steve Singleton
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
> To: ; "Oscar Zuniga"
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
>
>
>>
>>
>> Absolutely Oscar! It was a really neat place, I really liked it. I was
>> lucky to stop at a random grass strip early on a Sunday morning in an
>> area I knew nothing about...to find that they had fuel available! They
>> were very friendly and hospitable, and had a hangar full of planes and
>> parts. That one stop on essentially a farm strip must've been a lot
>> like a typical cross country stop 70 years ago when Bernard was flying.
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 08, 2008
Great story Jeremy, sounds like a fun trip. I've spent a little time at
Fayetteville and Midlothian. I used to live in the DFW area, did most of my
flight training at Grayson County, and at Denton. If you are looking for a
good group of local pilots, check out www.dfwpilots.com sometime. There are
some good people there, a lot of them are good friends of mine.
Steve Ruse
Norman, Ok
----- Original Message -----
From: <outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
>
> That's funny, I smiled reading your story. I've got a similar one.
>
> Last summer, my dad called me on a Friday afternoon and asked if i'd like
> to go with him to St Louis and fly back in a plane that he bought on eBay.
> He said it was a Rans Coyote II and the owner said it cruises 95mph. So
> we left Love field at 4:00am Monday on SW. 1hr 45min there. We rode with
> the owner about an hour west to a little airport on the MO river. We
> hopped in this tiny little thing and took off at about noon, no radio,
> gyro, intercom, or ear plugs.
>
> First thing is that a rotax 582 is wicked loud. I had a cleanex so we
> quartered it and stuffed it in our ears. We then realized that the cabin
> heat door would not stay closed. I pulled a piece of loose thread from
> the velcro on one of the wiring harness covers and tied the cable in the
> closed position. Giggling the whole time of course. We were watching our
> fuel consumption and it had used almost the entire left tank up without
> even touching the right. Only when I found an airport to divert to and
> changed my heading did it start to use fuel from the right tank. In 5
> minutes gravity balanced the two tanks and were both showing half full.
> Our first leg was the longest and our first stop was of course the airport
> that dad couldn't get on the phone, and they didn't have fuel. There was
> a fellow who was there and showed me on the chart that fayetteville was
> the closest place that had fuel, 30 miles away, just at the limit of the
> spec. Range for the ac. There we got fuel!
> , two bags of chips, and glorious earplugs. We made our next stop in OK
> event free and then on to midlothian TX. We got there about 30min after
> sunset, which was good since we had no nav or landing lights. 510
> nautical miles in 8hrs and 38min. Did I say that the 95 cruise is
> actually 65! I did get a pic of the air speed indicator at 95, in a
> steep dive.
>
> My dad tells people about it all the time. He says it was the best day
> that he can remember. He looks to me hoping for the same reply. I just
> say, the longer ago it gets, the more fun it was.
>
> Jeremy in Dallas, TX
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
>
> Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 12:55:54
> To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
>
>
>
>
> When I bought my GN-1, I flew it from South Bend, Indiana to Sherman,
> Texas, somewhere over 800 statute miles. I did in in three days
> pretty easy, but I had good weather. That will be the key for you.
> If you have good weather and a solid plane, you'll make it without
> problems. On day two of my trip I flew about 8 hours, somewhere
> around 500 miles. It wasn't bad, I just walked a little funny when I
> got out. Being 27 years old helped though. I had a huge smile on my
> face all three days, and for a few weeks afterwards.
>
> If you can do it Oscar, go for it. You will not regret it. My trip
> was one of the most fun things I have ever done in my life. I met
> some great people, and still talk to a couple of them occasionally.
> If you need to go through the Oklahoma City area on your way home, let
> me know, I'll put you and your plane up overnight (actually the hangar
> is in Slaughterville, OK, a ways south of OKC). It would be a little
> out of the way, but if you had to divert east for weather, it might be
> a good stop for you.
>
> Pictures and stories of my trip:
> http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/2005AprilPietTrip/
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
>
> Quoting hvandervoo(at)aol.com:
>
>>
>> Oscar,
>>
>> My hat off to you if can make that in three days, prevailing winds from
>> the south it could be possible.
>> I would add a day for bad weather or other unexpected delays.
>>
>> My short flight (4 hours) to Hondo and the 4 hours back the next day
>> thought me that it can wear you out.
>>
>> Dreaming about the once in a life time trip to Brodhead but not this
>> year.
>> Planning for Old Kingsbury on the 24th
>>
>> Good luck and fair winds
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>> To: Pietenpol List
>> Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 10:02 pm
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes,
>> distances,
>> times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same
>> no matter
>> what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight
>> at Corky's.
>> That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
>>
>> Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from
>> Shreveport to
>> Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the
>> annual
>> KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight
>> but
>> somewhere in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
>>
>> Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria
>> area and on
>> to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the
>> opening day of
>> the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday
>> afternoon,
>> Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon Sunday,
>> July
>> 27th.
>>
>> Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and
>> stops. I know
>> by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air
>> Force
>> trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine
>> still
>> ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find me
>> slouched in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket
>> open and
>> goggles pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me downing
>> some
>> cold brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th
>> birthday that
>> day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and
>> rudder
>> every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
>>
>> I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon
>> means I'd pay
>> about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"... plus
>> five
>> days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the
>> flight
>> at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its
>> spirit.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: May 09, 2008
Please corect me if I am wrong but isn't broadhead the weekend of July 18 ?
If I got the dates wrong please advise I would hate to plan and show up a week
early.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:02:48
To:Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes, distances, times,
fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be the same no matter
what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport and overnight at Corky's.
That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from Shreveport to Little
Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon is where the annual
KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a definite overnight but somewhere
in that area because I know they are airplane-friendly.
Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria area and on
to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the opening day of
the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on Friday afternoon,
Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime before noon Sunday, July
27th.
Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and stops. I know
by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII Army Air Force
trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and the warm engine still
ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28. The evening would find me slouched
in the nearest pub somewhere around Peoria, my leather jacket open and goggles
pushed back on my head, white scarf hanging limp, and me downing some cold
brews and ordering a round on the house to celebrate my 57th birthday that
day. Tired, sunburned, saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and rudder
every time the tires leave the ground as we head home.
I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon means I'd pay
about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100 hamburger"... plus five
days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a Pietenpoler has to make the flight
at least once in a lifetime or his Piet will forever be restless in its spirit.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 09, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
John,
It's July 25-27...
Jack
www.textors.com
Please corect me if I am wrong but isn't broadhead the weekend of July
18 ?
If I got the dates wrong please advise I would hate to plan and show up
a week early.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 22:02:48
To:Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
I had the charts and plotter out again tonight, looking at routes,
distances, times, fuel stops to Brodhead. The first day would still be
the same no matter what... two long legs from San Antonio to Shreveport
and overnight at Corky's. That will be Wednesday, July 23rd.
Thursday would be four legs, a bit over 500 statute miles, from
Shreveport to Little Rock/Poplar Bluff/Mt. Vernon, Illinois. Mt. Vernon
is where the annual KR Gathering has been held in the past and is not a
definite overnight but somewhere in that area because I know they are
airplane-friendly.
Friday the 25th would be in two legs from Mt. Vernon to the Peoria area
and on to Brodhead, putting me on the field sometime around noon on the
opening day of the fly-in. I would get settled in and enjoy Brodhead on
Friday afternoon, Saturday, Saturday night, and plan to leave sometime
before noon Sunday, July 27th.
Return flight would probably be more direct but similar route and stops.
I know by that time I will be playing the part of the tired pre-WWII
Army Air Force trainee, my airplane safely tied down at the field and
the warm engine still ticking as it cools off on that Monday July 28.
The evening would find me slouched in the nearest pub somewhere around
Peoria, my leather jacket open and goggles pushed back on my head, white
scarf hanging limp, and me downing some cold brews and ordering a round
on the house to celebrate my 57th birthday that day. Tired, sunburned,
saddle-sore, but still enjoying the stick and rudder every time the
tires leave the ground as we head home.
I figure 2400 statute miles round trip, 4 gal./hr. at $4.50/gallon means
I'd pay about $720 for avgas for the trip. Talk about a "$100
hamburger"... plus five days vacation time from work ;o) I guess a
Pietenpoler has to make the flight at least once in a lifetime or his
Piet will forever be restless in its spirit.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: more Brodhead dreamin'
Date: May 09, 2008
John,
Consider yourself corrected.
>From the Brodhead Pietenpol Association website:
Mark your calendars for Brodhead 2008!
Friday, July 25th - Sunday July 27th
Reminder - EAA Annual AirVenture in Oshkosh begins the Monday after the Piet
Gathering in Brodhead.
That would be very disappointing to show up on the wrong weekend.
Hopefully you can revise your schedule.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Denny Trone Memorial and Information
Date: May 09, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Can be found on the EAA Brodhead Chapter's site http://www.eaa431.org
<http://www.eaa431.org/>
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: more Brodhead dreamin'
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: May 09, 2008
Thanks all! Working on the change now
Not sure why I was the 18 now on the right page
Thanks
John
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:13:07
To:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: more Brodhead dreamin'
John,
Consider yourself corrected.
>From the Brodhead Pietenpol Association website:
Mark your calendars for Brodhead 2008!
Friday, July 25th - Sunday July 27th
Reminder - EAA Annual AirVenture in Oshkosh begins the Monday after the Piet Gathering
in Brodhead.
That would be very disappointing to show up on the wrong weekend.
Hopefully you can revise your schedule.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net>
Subject: Re: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
Date: May 09, 2008
Steve -thats a real neat story and the pictures make it even better. Steve
Singleton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Montgomery- Wehrman airport
>
>
> Absolutely
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: GN-1 airfoil information
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 10, 2008
Hi,
Just had an A&I leave my house after looking over my biplane GN-1 project. He had
a concern about the landing gear placement of my plane, based on the weight/placement
of the engine.
To correctly determine where the gear should be he said I needed to find out where
the CG of the plane is, but with it being a biplane configuration, he said
that I needed to have the mean center of lift information for both the upper
and lower wings, as well as a number of measurements from the assembled plane,
like information about the spacing horizontally between the wings. Then once
the weights, and measurements are known, the acceptable range of locations for
the axle of the landing gear can be determined from some engineering formulas.
Did some searching, found two engineering articles on finding the CG/center of
lift on biplanes, and they require information about the airfoil.
I was able to find information on the Pietenpol FC-10 airfoil, which I believe
is what my lower wing has, as the Aerial biplane conversion plans say the airfoil
is the same.
http://www.airminded.net/piet/piet.html has piet airfoil info with Cl,Cm,Cd, type info.
However presuming my plane has the Gregga airfoil, which the plans say have a rounder
leading edge.. and which appear to be thicker.. I would think it is a different
airfoil, with different values. Have not seen it listed in the common
airfoils databases.
Anyone have information on the GN-1 airfoil? I have the plans, have a jig, and
wings, but only can guestimate it as being like the piet.
We are thinking I may have to rework the landing gear to get it right, but no one
knows how much if any it must be changed.
So any GN-1 ordinates, or the Cl,Cm,Cd type info, or naca airfoil numbers... anything
like that would be helpful.
You can see my gear/plane on the westcoastpiet site, its under Jim D.
Thanks,
Jim
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information needed
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2008
Ok,
How about the MAC for the pietenpol wing? If I can get that value I can get a ballpark
idea of the biplane MAC values, and use it to have a better idea of where
the landing gear should be placed.
Jim
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
Date: May 11, 2008
Hi Jim,
My GN-1 was built according to the CAD plans -- the plans are loaded
with errors and the weight and balance example is bogus. That being
said, the aerodynamic is supposed to be 14 inches, but the example
aircraft uses J-3 wings. I'm in the process of determining the real
crew and fuel moments, since the plans can't be trusted.
Regards,
Tom Bernie
Gloucester, Mass
On May 10, 2008, at 5:47 PM, jimd wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just had an A&I leave my house after looking over my biplane GN-1
> project. He had a concern about the landing gear placement of my
> plane, based on the weight/placement of the engine.
>
> To correctly determine where the gear should be he said I needed to
> find out where the CG of the plane is, but with it being a biplane
> configuration, he said that I needed to have the mean center of lift
> information for both the upper and lower wings, as well as a number
> of measurements from the assembled plane, like information about the
> spacing horizontally between the wings. Then once the weights, and
> measurements are known, the acceptable range of locations for the
> axle of the landing gear can be determined from some engineering
> formulas.
>
> Did some searching, found two engineering articles on finding the CG/
> center of lift on biplanes, and they require information about the
> airfoil.
>
> I was able to find information on the Pietenpol FC-10 airfoil, which
> I believe is what my lower wing has, as the Aerial biplane
> conversion plans say the airfoil is the same.
>
> http://www.airminded.net/piet/piet.html has piet airfoil info with
> Cl,Cm,Cd, type info.
>
> However presuming my plane has the Gregga airfoil, which the plans
> say have a rounder leading edge.. and which appear to be thicker.. I
> would think it is a different airfoil, with different values. Have
> not seen it listed in the common airfoils databases.
>
> Anyone have information on the GN-1 airfoil? I have the plans, have
> a jig, and wings, but only can guestimate it as being like the piet.
>
> We are thinking I may have to rework the landing gear to get it
> right, but no one knows how much if any it must be changed.
>
> So any GN-1 ordinates, or the Cl,Cm,Cd type info, or naca airfoil
> numbers... anything like that would be helpful.
>
> You can see my gear/plane on the westcoastpiet site, its under Jim D.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182401#182401
>
>
Thomas Bernie
tsbe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
Date: May 11, 2008
"aerodynamic" should read "aerodynamic center of the wing"
tb
On May 11, 2008, at 3:53 PM, Thomas Bernie wrote:
> >
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> My GN-1 was built according to the CAD plans -- the plans are
> loaded with errors and the weight and balance example is bogus.
> That being said, the aerodynamic is supposed to be 14 inches, but
> the example aircraft uses J-3 wings. I'm in the process of
> determining the real crew and fuel moments, since the plans can't be
> trusted.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Bernie
> Gloucester, Mass
>
>
> On May 10, 2008, at 5:47 PM, jimd wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just had an A&I leave my house after looking over my biplane GN-1
>> project. He had a concern about the landing gear placement of my
>> plane, based on the weight/placement of the engine.
>>
>> To correctly determine where the gear should be he said I needed to
>> find out where the CG of the plane is, but with it being a biplane
>> configuration, he said that I needed to have the mean center of
>> lift information for both the upper and lower wings, as well as a
>> number of measurements from the assembled plane, like information
>> about the spacing horizontally between the wings. Then once the
>> weights, and measurements are known, the acceptable range of
>> locations for the axle of the landing gear can be determined from
>> some engineering formulas.
>>
>> Did some searching, found two engineering articles on finding the
>> CG/center of lift on biplanes, and they require information about
>> the airfoil.
>>
>> I was able to find information on the Pietenpol FC-10 airfoil,
>> which I believe is what my lower wing has, as the Aerial biplane
>> conversion plans say the airfoil is the same.
>>
>> http://www.airminded.net/piet/piet.html has piet airfoil info with
>> Cl,Cm,Cd, type info.
>>
>> However presuming my plane has the Gregga airfoil, which the plans
>> say have a rounder leading edge.. and which appear to be thicker..
>> I would think it is a different airfoil, with different values.
>> Have not seen it listed in the common airfoils databases.
>>
>> Anyone have information on the GN-1 airfoil? I have the plans, have
>> a jig, and wings, but only can guestimate it as being like the piet.
>>
>> We are thinking I may have to rework the landing gear to get it
>> right, but no one knows how much if any it must be changed.
>>
>> So any GN-1 ordinates, or the Cl,Cm,Cd type info, or naca airfoil
>> numbers... anything like that would be helpful.
>>
>> You can see my gear/plane on the westcoastpiet site, its under Jim D.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182401#182401
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thomas Bernie
> tsbe
>
>
Thomas Bernie
tsbe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 11, 2008
Sounds like you could use same kind of info. Saw Xfoil could figure some of the
info if I figure out the coordinates, but it didn't look like it would give the
MAC value. There is pricey software that will give it, but I don't plan on
using this kind of thing much. There is an EAA spreadsheet to calculate the equivelent
biplane MAC, once I get the rest the values, then I can find out what
the acceptable range is for locating the landing gear axle.. which is really
important.
Have little doubt someone has these numbers and did this same exercise.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182559#182559
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: GN-1 airfoil information
Date: May 11, 2008
Jim wrote;
> Just had an A&I leave my house after looking over my biplane GN-1 project.
Jim, that's always a good thing but remember that these are experimental aircraft
and most A&Ps/A&Is are from the certified world and are usually on unfamiliar
ground. Not only that, they tend to forget that we aren't shooting for certification
and are essentially test pilots, so if we don't get things bang-on
when we begin testing the aircraft, we can make adjustments and it doesn't affect
all of the engineering paperwork that we (didn't) send in to Oklahoma City
when we registered the aircraft. That said, my next statement is that I'm NOT
an aeronautical engineer and I'm shooting from the hip with what follows, but
here goes.
> To correctly determine where the gear should be he said I needed to find out
where
> the CG of the plane is
Correct, but some of that info should have come with the St. Croix "Aerial" biplane
plans that you got from Chad Wille. If not, I guess then you are truly on
your own here.
>but with it being a biplane configuration, he said
> that I needed to have the mean center of lift information for both the upper
> and lower wings
Probably correct if the wings are staggered, which I don't know since I've never
seen the plans for the Aerial, but if there is no stagger then it's just a geometry
problem. If there is no stagger, then in the level configuration (where
W&B is done) the CG range will be the same as for most airplanes in our size
and class... 22 to 34% of the wing chord, or 13.2 to 20.4" aft of the wing leading
edge.
> as well as a number of measurements from the assembled plane,
> like information about the spacing horizontally between the wings. Then once
> the weights, and measurements are known, the acceptable range of locations for
> the axle of the landing gear can be determined from some engineering formulas.
There are good, useful rules of thumb for these things and you're on the right
track with your thinking. Many of the early airplanes, homebuilt and otherwise,
were biplanes so a lot of thought has gone into their design and setup. I
will look through what I have in the way of "armchair engineering" books on the
subject, such as Evans' "Lightplane Designer" and see what I can find.
> However presuming my plane has the Grega airfoil, which the plans say have a
rounder
> leading edge.. and which appear to be thicker.. I would think it is a different
> airfoil, with different values. Have not seen it listed in the common
> airfoils databases.
I don't think much changed between the Pietenpol and the Grega until it comes to
the sharpness of the stall (thus the rounder leading edge), and I would think
that for purposes of setting up your landing gear it wouldn't matter too much
(even though you're essentially in the stall configuration in a 3-point landing).
You have to start somewhere unless you are determined to make it an engineering
and aerodynamic analysis, in which case I can't help.
As to the earlier mention of the mean aerodynamic chord (MAC), that is for tapered
and swept wings, and your wings should both be constant-chord with no sweep
so the MAC is simply the chord, which should be 60" for both wings.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
Thanks guys,
I had similar thoughts, but am still bugged by the fuselage really looking long
in front of the wing.
My engine is supposed to weigh 315 pounds, which if it was short and close to the
firewall (like the radial in the prototype Aerial) it wouldn't be that much
of a concern, the model A wet is about 280. My wood prop is only about 15 lbs,
so it isn't really far out of line.
However it is pretty far forward. There is some lead in the tail and the preliminary
W&B seems okay. With the tail up in a flying position it still has a good
deal of weight on the tail, about 50 pounds I think (need to get scales and
weigh it, but it doesn't seem nose heavy on the gear.)
In the air I don't think there would be an issue. The gear's camber is off and
that is what originally concerned me, however there is quite a bit of adjustment
that can be done, so until I have the plane up off the ground where it can
be adjusted, I don't know that it has any real camber problem either.
The Aerial plans have a few guidelines, essentially that if the engine is 280 lbs
or more move the top wing forward a few inches, and that the distance between
the wings can be set to 51" without appreciable differences in the W&B to make
entry/exit easier. From measuring the plane with the wings on, those changes
were made. The plans don't have anything about relocating the landing gear,
as the idea was to minimize changes from a stock plane. To get clearance from
the gear the lower wing mounts lift the wing a couple inches above the mount
points (which are the same mount points as the lift struts on a normal Piet or
GN-1.)
With the engineering math info I should be able to get an idea of whether its a
concern or a real problem, and the magnitude of what it will take to sort it
out.
Thought about replacing the two giant magneto's with a CDI system for instance,
that could cut at least 30 lbs off the nose, and would add a small battery that
could be moved behind the CG point. If it was just a little off that kind of
thing might help. (Probably cut more than that, was told the brass conduit for
the plug wires weighs almost 15 lbs., the mags look like starters for a big
truck, they are huge.)
But if it needs the gear forward a foot or so, its going to take some real work.
To me it looked like you could slant the gear forward like a Bucker Jungmann,
and gain 6-8" of forward movement of the axle pretty easily. The A&I disagreed
and said it would double the landing shock load, which led to a discussion
that I didn't follow well (neither did his friend that was with him that built
a Kitfox and was pretty knowledgeable.) So I will look toward a good engineer
if it comes to it.
The A&I is maintains a biplane museum, has 30+ yrs experience and specializes in
tube/rag work, and is one of our local EAA tech counselors, so I am inclined
to take his advice and investigate if I have a problem.
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: wing rib brads
From: "Ted White" <tankertoad1(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: May 12, 2008
most of the builders logs I have researched noted that after the gussets had dried,
the brads were removed. Why not leave them in?
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing rib brads
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
Can add a few pounds of useless weight, not considered necessary.
If they are put on wing wraps they can work their way up thru the cloth and make
things ugly.
Jim D.
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
Date: May 12, 2008
Jim,
I just had a peek at the photos of your plane at westcoastpiet.com .
That IS a long nose (on your plane). I've never seen one in person, and
there aren't many photos of Aerials floating around, so I have no idea
whether yours looks typical or not.
What I don't understand is that you write that there is some lead in the
tail. Generally speaking, that is a condition to be avoided - and the most
common way to avoid adding weight to the tail is to extend the motormount a
bit. But it seems you have both - which means that you probably have
unnecessary weight, plus whatever negative aspects go along with a long
nose. I am not familiar with your engine (ENMA Tigre 125), and the photos
don't show the engine installed without the cowling, so it's hard to tell if
there is any room to move the engine back or not. Is the engine extremely
long? If it is possible to move the engine back, and remove the lead from
the tail, I would think that would be the way to go. What do the Aerial
plans show for typical powerplant (if at all), and how long is the nose?
Since your engine sounds heavy, one would expect that your nose should be
shorter than "normal".
And your cabane struts look really long, but from what you write, it sounds
as though the Aerial plans permit them to be that way.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
My cabane struts are long, and its very easy getting in to front seat.
I agree that a heavier engine should make for a shorter cowling not longer.
Here are a few pics of the uncowled plane and a better pic of a Tigre.. it has
quite a bit of stuff hanging off the back.
My wing struts are way too long in the pics, about 9" long, they have not been
cut to size and finished yet, but I needed something to put in for photos.
Jim
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: aircamper engine
From: "Ted White" <tankertoad1(at)suddenlink.net>
Date: May 12, 2008
What is the ideal and maximum HP for the air camper? Also, what is the ideal engine
weight?
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aircamper engine
From: "pflyboy" <nick_d_av8r(at)msn.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
>From what I understand, the Continental C-90 is probably the ideal Pietenpol Air
Camper engine. It is rated at 90 horsepower, 95 for short periods. Even though
it has less horsepower than a Corvair or O-200, it can swing a larger diameter
prop, which is ideal for climb and also to overcome the Piet's drag. As
far as weight goes, the less, the better, but the Ford weighs about 240 lbs.
I think the C-90 comes in at about 215 lbs with all the little nicknacks and
doodads. Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Nick
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aircamper engine
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
Weight of Motor (Ford Model A) with Magneto 244 lb
Weight of Radiator 21 lb
Weight of Propeller 15 lb
With water, cowling and mounts your around 300 lbs I suspect.
Jim
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: GN-1 airfoil information
Date: May 12, 2008
Jim;
Just for comparison, NX41CC in its most recent W&B (using electronic scales) had
29 lbs. on the tailwheel in the level configuration, empty.
You should weigh it and see if you really have 50 lbs. on the tail. I would think
you would require significantly higher elevator force to raise the tail if
it's that much heavier back there.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: aircamper engine
Nick ,
I agree with everything you said. The problem with the C-90 is PRICE!
Ken H.
Fargo, ND
pflyboy wrote:
>From what I understand, the Continental C-90 is probably the ideal Pietenpol Air
Camper engine. It is rated at 90 horsepower, 95 for short periods. Even though
it has less horsepower than a Corvair or O-200, it can swing a larger diameter
prop, which is ideal for climb and also to overcome the Piet's drag. As far
as weight goes, the less, the better, but the Ford weighs about 240 lbs. I
think the C-90 comes in at about 215 lbs with all the little nicknacks and doodads.
Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Nick
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Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GN-1 airfoil information
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
Oscar,
I will be weighing it next time I put it together, they (A&I and Kitfox guy) offered
to loan me a set of scales and help out, so when I get to a good point to
do it again thats the plan.
May be less than that, but felt mighty heavy holding it up.
Next time it goes together I want 2-3 knowedgable helpers on hand. Want to have
temporary struts the right length, and good supports for everything. Also a lot
of clamps/markers so we can do a trial run of all the rigging and mark all
the fitting locations. Need scales, levels, etc. And a clear plan/checklist so
we can get it together and apart in a day and still accomplish enough to make
it worth while. Going to get more/better quality pictures too.
In the mean time, I am working on getting the wood leading edge for the lower wings
fabricated, ordered 1/16th inch okume ply for the wrap, and will be checking
on getting exhaust stacks made.
jim
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: NX92GB
Well, I got to fly the piet for the first time this year on saturday for a couple
hrs. It is a lot eaiser to taxi now that we have a steerable tailwheel! Now
just need to make a few good fly ins this summer. Is anyone going to the Wyncoop
WACO fly -in? I plan on going to it and the auto conversion fly-in at
Barber Field up by Alliance Ohio. Hope to see a few of you before Brodhead.
Shad
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: wing rib brads
Date: May 13, 2008
Ted,
I left them in. I bought a pound of brads from AS&S when I started and still
have most of the left. Can't be much weight in that!
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted White
Sent: Tuesday, 13 May 2008 12:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing rib brads
most of the builders logs I have researched noted that after the gussets had
dried, the brads were removed. Why not leave them in?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182680#182680
Checked by AVG.
1:08 PM
Checked by AVG.
1:08 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NX92GB
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
Hey Shad...
I'm planning on the Barber Fly-in. I might even camp over night. I think it's
the first weekend in June. Right? Maybe I can park by you since I'm not an auto
conversion. Ha. I went last year and enjoyed it. Maybe we can try to get
together. You should get to see the "NEW" Sky Gypsy by then! I can't make it
to the Wynkoop Fly-in, I'll be on vacation. Maybe we can get Mr. Cuy to come
down to Barber. Might as well try to get Skip to come up too. Hey while we're
at it we better get a hold of Wil Graff. Ya know it's starting to sound like
a Pietenpol Fly-in. I could even hop some rides. I suppose we could just
all try to fly in there, but not actually call it a Fly-in.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 12, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: wing rib brads
According to Mr. Bingelis, the nails are of absolutely no consequence once
the glue has dried (excuse me, ...cured). All the strength of a joint is
attributed to the adhesive. In my opinion (only my opinion) if I can save a
few ounces here and there, I would remove the nails. The theme "think
light" has come up many times and that is my intention. I'm trying to build
the whole plane with no nails. Clamps for wing ribs are not that hard to
make. I think if lightness is a primary objective you will achieve it by
default by simply looking at each piece you build and asking yourself if
there will be a weight penalty for your decision.
Again, just my humble opinion.
Some people hestitate to take passengers over 180 lbs up for rides. Walt
Evans took my fat butt (212 lbs) up for a ride in his plane without
hestitation because his plane is LIGHT. 595 lbs. ...and climbed nicely. I
think as soon as you start making allowances (a pound here, five pounds
there) it can become a habit.
Just my non-flying, Pietenpol forum gained, $0.02 worth. A pound saved is a
pound earned.
On 5/12/08, Ted White wrote:
>
> tankertoad1(at)suddenlink.net>
>
> most of the builders logs I have researched noted that after the gussets
> had dried, the brads were removed. Why not leave them in?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182680#182680
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing rib brads
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
I left mine in... I'll bet maybe 1/4-1/2 of a pound of nails in the wing...
Don Emch
NX899DE
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NX92GB
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 12, 2008
Hey Shad,
I guess it's not really the first weekend. It's June 7-8.
Don
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alliance, OH Fly In
Date: May 13, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Nice list of guys there Don E. I wonder if Fantastic Frank Paviliga
will have his
Warner powered (that he acquired from Lowell Frank) Sky Gypsy back in
the air by then ?
Sounds like he's making good progress on the recovering process, new
cowlings made,
new windshields. For those who don't know, Frank's 65 Cont. powered
Piet will now
sport a Warner radial, wire wheels (black, uncovered) and a fairly
standard BHP paint
scheme if I remember correctly. No one will recognize this one after
her extreme
makeover.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2008
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: wing rib brads - Bingelis articles available
Piet Builders - Through your EAA membership, you are able to view on line,
many articles written by Tony Bingelis regarding homebuilding techniques.
- The articles are accompanied with the same diagrams as in his books.-
Follow the path below. =0Ago to:=0Awww.eea.org=0A--- member services
=0A--- --- member benfits=0A--- --- --- commu
nity (in blue box on the right side of the page)=0A--- --- -
-- --- homebuilding=0A--- --- --- --- -
-- articles (on the left side of the page)=0A--- --- --
- --- --- --- then you need to log in as an "EAA member
" (your membership fee gives you access)=0A--- --- ---
--- --- --- --- then you can select the articles yo
u want to read=0AThis information may provide folks with good reading while
waiting at airports on bussiness trips-as-some of you travel, or to vi
ew the contents of the books. - Have fun.=0A=0Ajohn=0A----- Original Mess
age ----=0AFrom: Glenn Thomas <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-
list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:28:29 PM=0ASubject: Re: P
ietenpol-List: wing rib brads=0A=0A=0AAccording to Mr. Bingelis, the nails
are of absolutely no consequence once the glue has dried (excuse me, ...cur
ed).- All the strength of a joint is attributed to the adhesive.- In my
opinion (only my opinion) if I can save a few ounces here and there, I wou
ld remove the nails.- The theme "think light" has come up many times and
that is my intention.- I'm trying to build the whole plane with no nails.
- Clamps for wing ribs are not that hard to make.- I think if lightness
is a primary objective you will achieve it by default by simply looking at
each piece you build and asking yourself if there will be a weight penalty
for your decision.=0A-=0AAgain, just my humble opinion.- =0A-=0ASome
people hestitate to take passengers over 180 lbs up for rides.- Walt Eva
ns took my fat butt (212 lbs) up for a ride in his-plane without hestitat
ion because his plane is LIGHT.- 595 lbs. ...and climbed nicely.- I thi
nk as soon as you start making allowances (a pound here, five pounds there)
it-can become a habit.=0A-=0AJust my non-flying,-Pietenpol forum gai
ned, $0.02 worth.- A pound saved is a pound earned.=0A=0A-=0AOn 5/12/08
, Ted White wrote: =0A--> Pietenpol-List messa
ge posted by: "Ted White" =0A=0Amost of the bui
lders logs I have researched noted that after the gussets had dried, the br
ads were removed. Why not leave them in?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onli
ne here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182680#182680
=0A=0A-- =0AGlenn Thomas=0AStorrs, CT=0Ahttp://www.flyingwood.com =0A=0A=0A
-========================
=======0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: May 13, 2008
Subject: Alliance, OH Fly In
Engine I can understand, but why the recover and new paint?
Stevee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alliance, OH Fly In
Nice list of guys there Don E. I wonder if Fantastic Frank Paviliga
will have his
Warner powered (that he acquired from Lowell Frank) Sky Gypsy back in
the air by then ?
Sounds like he's making good progress on the recovering process, new
cowlings made,
new windshields. For those who don't know, Frank's 65 Cont. powered
Piet will now
sport a Warner radial, wire wheels (black, uncovered) and a fairly
standard BHP paint
scheme if I remember correctly. No one will recognize this one after
her extreme
makeover.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing rib brads
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: May 13, 2008
Just my 2 cents: I followed the lead of several others and built clamps on my jigs.
Having completed approx. 12 ribs so far, I find the joint results extremely
consistent. The clamps have a "feel" for how much pressure is being applied,
preventing joint starvation and of course do not damage the wood in any way.
I'm never in a hurry, but the first side of the rib is glued in under 30 minutes
and the second side in about 15. I have not tried braids, so this info is
just offered for comparison / as another data point.
Also, the clamps/jib were easy and a lot of fun to make!
Steve C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182966#182966
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Alliance, OH Fly In
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 13, 2008
Hey Mike...
He says it should be ready by the first of June. He is a fast worker, that's for
sure. I believe the engine is actually a Lambert. What do you think Mike,
can you make it down? Salem Fly-in is this weekend too.
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183010#183010
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 13, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Having hard time
Having a hard time getting my hands around a material list for the extended
Air Camper fuselage. There are two drawings and they do not interpolate from
one size to another and then there is the third plan published in the 1932
'Flying and Glider Manual'. Some have sent me a started spread sheet, but it
was not complete nor did I know if it was the extended version or not.
I am just wanting to do the fuselage for now and leave the wing and tail
section for this coming winter.
I was wanting to leave the sides of the fuselage open until and rigging and
plumbing was done, so I don't have to order the full sheets of plywood now .
the longerons would be the only thing that would require special shipping.
Does anyone have a "complete" material list that they would not mine
sharing?
Milt Atkinson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Having hard time
Date: May 14, 2008
Milt,
Check out my web site (HYPERLINK
"http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com). There is a wood
cutting list under =93Services & Suppliers=94 -> =93Material Lists=94.
The list is
for the extended version. The wing spars are box (U) section not routed.
Hope it helps
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt
Atkinson
Sent: Wednesday, 14 May 2008 11:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Having hard time
Having a hard time getting my hands around a material list for the
extended
Air Camper fuselage. There are two drawings and they do not interpolate
from
one size to another and then there is the third plan published in the
1932
=91Flying and Glider Manual=92. Some have sent me a started spread
sheet, but it
was not complete nor did I know if it was the extended version or not.
I am just wanting to do the fuselage for now and leave the wing and tail
section for this coming winter.
I was wanting to leave the sides of the fuselage open until and rigging
and
plumbing was done, so I don=92t have to order the full sheets of plywood
now =85
the longerons would be the only thing that would require special
shipping.
Does anyone have a =93complete=94 material list that they would not mine
sharing?
Milt Atkinson
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"http://www.matronics.c
om/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
7.5.524 /
Checked by AVG.
12/05/2008
6:14 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Frank's new engine and to answer Steve E's question
Date: May 14, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Aha-- thanks for helping me out there Don E on Frank's engine. A
Lambert. Don't
know why I had Warner stuck in my head.
I have to get my BRF out unfortunately. Salem sounds like fun. Nice
airport too.
And regarding Frank's recovering of the airplane for Steve E., Frank and
his Dad Frank
S. Pavliga covered the airplane a long time ago with heavy grade dacron
and not only did
Frank want to inspect the airframe and wings but he wanted to make some
modifications to
things like the small storage area behind the pilot's seat and other
items. Frank
went with a new paint scheme too so he didn't want to just paint over
the old plus the
new fabric he used is the light weight grade so his finish weight will
be much less
as that weave fills so much faster and nicer than the heavier, coarse
grade.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: how to find a DAR
Date: May 14, 2008
Hi,
I am having a hard time locating a DAR in my area who likes
experimentals.
Can anybody offer a suggestion about the best way to locate someone?
thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: how to find a DAR
Date: May 14, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I just contacted the local FAA FSDO (for me that was in Greensboro - 100
miles away). I had to wait about 2 weeks for an inspector to come out,
but it was free (a DAR will cost you up to $500), and I got my
Repairman's Certificate on the spot.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how to find a DAR
Hi,
I am having a hard time locating a DAR in my area who likes
experimentals.
Can anybody offer a suggestion about the best way to locate someone?
thanks
Douwe
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privile
ged, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, pleas
e notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is
prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands -
Norsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2008
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: how to find a DAR - EAA maintains a list of DAR's
Douwe,=0AThrough your EAA membership, you have access to a listing of DAR's
for amateur built aircraft.- Maybe you'll find a guy on this list?- go
to:=0Awww.eaa.org=0A--- member services=0A--- --- member
benefits=0A--- --- --- member benefits pull down menu=0A
--- --- --- --- resources=0A--- --- -
-- --- --- scroll down to "Ameteur built and light sport ai
rcraft inspection"=0A--- --- --- --- --- -
-- find A DAR.....=0AI hope this helps. =0Ajohn-=0A=0A----- Original
Message ----=0AFrom: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>=0ATo: pie
tenpolgroup =0ASent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008
7:53:45 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: how to find a DAR=0A=0A=0AHi,=0A-
=0AI am having a hard time locating a DAR in my area who likes experimental
s.=0A-=0ACan anybody offer a suggestion about the best way to locate some
-========================
====================0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2008
From: "Milt Atkinson" <miltatkinson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: how to find a DAR
Are you trying to air worthiness certificate or just a build progress
inspection? Where are you located?
I have had two different DARs look at my project during the build stage and
it only cost me lunch. Air worthiness cert is another story. As someone
already mentioned, it can cost $500+ .
Milt Atkinson
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: how to find a DAR
Hi,
I am having a hard time locating a DAR in my area who likes experimentals.
Can anybody offer a suggestion about the best way to locate someone?
thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Having hard time
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 14, 2008
Milt,
I have built mine in stages like you want to do and have notes from various orders
but I am sorry I cant determine exactly what I bought for the fuselage. One
of the best ways to become familiar with the plans and the construction steps
is to sit down with the plans and develop a materials list. When building the
long fuselage youre going to have to work with both the drawings for the long
fuselage and the 33 fuselage (for your case dont use the Flying and Glider
plans). Its really rather simple, the wood size comes from the 33 drawings and
the length (for the sides pieces) comes from the Long fuselage plans. The length
of the wood joining the two sides comes from the 33 drawings as the width
does not change.
While developing my materials list I have found the drawings are mostly drawn to
scale. Find the scale by measuring something in the drawing with a known dimension.
If the scale is not a standard scale, I create a scale for that particular
drawing. If you dont know how to do this here is link to a simple technique
I use.
http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/construct.html
Look for EQUAL DIVISIONS OF A LINE
You can then measure the length of a particular piece and get a reasonable estimate
of the length you will need to order.
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183173#183173
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2008
Hi,
Was reading thru EAA's articles on plywood skinning and they mentioned that all
the joints of your plywood for skinning should be scarfed. Makes sense.
Have some 1/16th okoume coming from boulter plywood, and being cut in 8 ft strips
they will need at least one joint.
If you guys scarfed them.. how? Thats mighty thin material for doing that.
I have a shopsmith that I can angle around as a table saw or setup for disk sanding
or maybe drum, but can't image 1/16 material not chipping out something terrible.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183177#183177
________________________________________________________________________________
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: May 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
I found that I could scarf thin ply with my belt sander(hand held,used
"fine" belt) clamp the ply on the edge of a table. Make a mark with a pencil to
the thick side of the scarf. With just a little practice you should be able to
feather to the pencil mark.
Howdy
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 14, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I used an electric planer with a modified fence attached to it that made
it sit at a 3.8 degree angle (which is what gives a 15:1 slope). You
can also use a belt sander or a block plane. At 15 to one for .063"
plywood, the scarf is still only an inch wide (or a little less).
Jack Phillips
Counting the days till Brodhead
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Hi,
Was reading thru EAA's articles on plywood skinning and they mentioned
that all the joints of your plywood for skinning should be scarfed.
Makes sense.
Have some 1/16th okoume coming from boulter plywood, and being cut in 8
ft strips they will need at least one joint.
If you guys scarfed them.. how? Thats mighty thin material for doing
that.
I have a shopsmith that I can angle around as a table saw or setup for
disk sanding or maybe drum, but can't image 1/16 material not chipping
out something terrible.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183177#183177
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 14, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Jim,
You are correct it's tough. I scarfed the 1/16 inch for my leading edge
every four feet. I attached a photo showing the 1/16 inch and one of
the spar ply which shows how I marked and placed them together before
sanding. For the spar ply I used my 12" drum sander. For the 1/16 I
laid them flat on my bench and used an oscillating sander. I believe
some builders have not scarfed and just butted together in the rib
below.
Jack
www.textors.com
Hi,
Was reading thru EAA's articles on plywood skinning and they mentioned
that all the joints of your plywood for skinning should be scarfed.
Makes sense.
Have some 1/16th okoume coming from boulter plywood, and being cut in 8
ft strips they will need at least one joint.
If you guys scarfed them.. how? Thats mighty thin material for doing
that.
I have a shopsmith that I can angle around as a table saw or setup for
disk sanding or maybe drum, but can't image 1/16 material not chipping
out something terrible.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183177#183177
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2008
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
I have done a few scarfs on kayaks in 4 mm okume. The easiest way that I
have found is to use a sharp block plane. Mark a line where you want the
taper to end. That would probably be about 1/2" in for your wood. Set the
ply with its edge right at the edge of a table and clamp the sheet down
down. Then simply plane it by hand. Clean up with a long sanding block if
needed. It is easier than it sounds.
Dave
At 03:55 PM 5/14/2008, jimd wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>Was reading thru EAA's articles on plywood skinning and they mentioned
>that all the joints of your plywood for skinning should be scarfed. Makes
>sense.
>
>Have some 1/16th okoume coming from boulter plywood, and being cut in 8 ft
>strips they will need at least one joint.
>
>If you guys scarfed them.. how? Thats mighty thin material for doing that.
>
>I have a shopsmith that I can angle around as a table saw or setup for
>disk sanding or maybe drum, but can't image 1/16 material not chipping out
>something terrible.
>
>Jim
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183177#183177
>
>
>--
>Checked by AVG.
>5/14/2008 7:49 AM
>
>
>incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 14, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
They way I did this for my leading edge was really simple and only took
15 min or less. I had some coarse sandpaper that had an adhesive back.
I stuck a piece of it to the flat side of a one foot 2 X 4 so that one
edge was flush with the end of the board. I put my plywood on the bench
so that the edge I needed to scarf was flush with the end of the
bench. Now I took a piece of 1/2 inch stock and placed it parallel to
the end of the bench about 8 inches from the end of the bench and the
plywood to be scarfed. If you put the sandpaper face of the 2X4 on
the plywood now, with the other end of the 2X4 resting on the 1/2
inch stock, you are set up for a 16:1 scarf! Just rub the sanding
block back and forth until you have a sharp edge and you should have
about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch scarf. Mathematically it should come out to one
inch, but mine didn't quite get there. After it is all glued down it
turned out pretty good. Hope this makes sense, I didn't take any
pictures but I could put it all together and make some photos in a few
minutes if you want.
Necessity is the mother of invention (and I'm too lazy to make a *fancy*
jig)
Ben Charvet
jimd wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Was reading thru EAA's articles on plywood skinning and they mentioned that all
the joints of your plywood for skinning should be scarfed. Makes sense.
>
> Have some 1/16th okoume coming from boulter plywood, and being cut in 8 ft strips
they will need at least one joint.
>
> If you guys scarfed them.. how? Thats mighty thin material for doing that.
>
> I have a shopsmith that I can angle around as a table saw or setup for disk sanding
or maybe drum, but can't image 1/16 material not chipping out something
terrible.
>
> Jim
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183177#183177
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 14, 2008
Thanks for all the replies.
I had researched it a bit, and heard of different ways, it just seemed mighty thin
to work with.
My okoume plywood came from Boulter a few minutes ago. Bought two 4x8 sheets (cut
in to 1x8 strips)so if it works out well I can redo my top wing with it instead
of the .016 aluminum that is wanting to pop off. Or if doesn't go well I
have enough to get it done even with some miss-steps.
Presume you varnish or clear coat, the part of the plywood that will be on the
inside of the wing ... before softening the outside with water to get it to bend..
then once it is the right shape and dry, you remove the formed piece and
do the glue/T-88 and then once that sets you varnish/epoxy/clear coat the outside
part of the plywood?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183213#183213
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 15, 2008
Hello everybody.
When I have scarfed thin plywood I make a stack of all the pieces together
setting each one back the widith the scarf. I then plan or sand them them a
ll at once. This pretty much ensures the angles will all match when you fl
ip a piece over and glue them together.
Steve in Maine
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:17:31 -0400
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> From: dmatt(at)frontiernet.net
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
>
net>
>
> I have done a few scarfs on kayaks in 4 mm okume. The easiest way that I
> have found is to use a sharp block plane. Mark a line where you want the
> taper to end. That would probably be about 1/2" in for your wood. Set t
he
> ply with its edge right at the edge of a table and clamp the sheet down
> down. Then simply plane it by hand. Clean up with a long sanding block
if
> needed. It is easier than it sounds.
>
> Dave
>
>
> At 03:55 PM 5/14/2008, jimd wrote:
>
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >Was reading thru EAA's articles on plywood skinning and they mentioned
> >that all the joints of your plywood for skinning should be scarfed. Make
s
> >sense.
> >
> >Have some 1/16th okoume coming from boulter plywood, and being cut in 8
ft
> >strips they will need at least one joint.
> >
> >If you guys scarfed them.. how? Thats mighty thin material for doing tha
t.
> >
> >I have a shopsmith that I can angle around as a table saw or setup for
> >disk sanding or maybe drum, but can't image 1/16 material not chipping o
ut
> >something terrible.
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183177#183177
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Checked by AVG.
> >5/14/2008 7:49 AM
> >
> >
> >incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG.
>
>
===========
===========
===========
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2008
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Guys,
I did not scarf any plywood. When I nailed/glued the 1/16 ply to the wing, I
only lapped one half of the rib width. Then the next piece lapped the other
half of the rib width. Worked like a charm. Just like when you put up a piece
of drywall on a stud wall, bearing only half of the 2 x 4.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 15, 2008
Thats exactly what I did. Scarfing isn't necessary for the leading edge plywood.
Since Bernard originally used cardboard from quaker oats oatmeal tubing, scarfing
would have been a little difficult.
Getting ready to go out this morning and help a friend cover his Piet.
Rick Schreiber.
Valparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 5/15/2008 5:08:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Guys,
I did not scarf any plywood. When I nailed/glued the 1/16 ply to the wing, I only
lapped one half of the rib width. Then the next piece lapped the other half
of the rib width. Worked like a charm. Just like when you put up a piece of drywall
on a stud wall, bearing only half of the 2 x 4.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL
Food.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 14, 2008
I have not been following this thread so someone has probably already posted
this, but take a look at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kspars.html for a
good way to do the scarfs. I did an almost identical setup with a piece of
pine shelf board and my Bosch laminate trimmer and it worked great. I only
did 1/8" plywood, but I have no doubt that 1/16" would work just a good.
The entire setup probably took me 45 minutes to make and I can set it back
up again when I need it in 10 minutes.
It worked best for me with the 1/8" ply if I did the cut in two steps (1/4"
pieces clamped against the board the router is on then remove them, don't
adjust the height of the router). Probably would be just fine to run full
depth on one cut on 1/16".
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of jimd
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Thanks for all the replies.
I had researched it a bit, and heard of different ways, it just seemed
mighty thin to work with.
My okoume plywood came from Boulter a few minutes ago. Bought two 4x8 sheets
(cut in to 1x8 strips)so if it works out well I can redo my top wing with it
instead of the .016 aluminum that is wanting to pop off. Or if doesn't go
well I have enough to get it done even with some miss-steps.
Presume you varnish or clear coat, the part of the plywood that will be on
the inside of the wing ... before softening the outside with water to get it
to bend.. then once it is the right shape and dry, you remove the formed
piece and do the glue/T-88 and then once that sets you varnish/epoxy/clear
coat the outside part of the plywood?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183213#183213
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2008
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: N444MH video
Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he made during N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay for it. Thanks!
Saludos
Santiago
PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to Brodhead this year
__________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam gratis!
Abr tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: N444MH video
Date: May 15, 2008
I would gladly do it - no expense
Kirk
On May 15, 2008, at 11:25 AM, santiago morete wrote:
> Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he made
> during N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
> Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay for
> it. Thanks!
> Saludos
>
> Santiago
>
> PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to
> Brodhead this year
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Correo Yahoo!
> Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam =A1gratis!
> =A1Abr=ED tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: N444MH video
Date: May 15, 2008
If any of you have contact with Grant let him know that I would be
willing to make him a bunch of DVD copies that he can sell.
Kirk
On May 15, 2008, at 11:25 AM, santiago morete wrote:
> Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he made
> during N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
> Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay for
> it. Thanks!
> Saludos
>
> Santiago
>
> PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to
> Brodhead this year
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Correo Yahoo!
> Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam =A1gratis!
> =A1Abr=ED tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: N444MH video
I would like one.
Kirk Huizenga wrote: If any of you have contact with Grant
let him know that I would be willing to make him a bunch of DVD copies that he
can sell.
Kirk
On May 15, 2008, at 11:25 AM, santiago morete wrote:
Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he made during N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay for it. Thanks!
Saludos
Santiago
PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to Brodhead this year
__________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam gratis!
Abr tu cuenta ya! - http://correo.yahoo.com.ar
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2008
Subject: Re: N444MH video
Put me on the list to buy one from Grant.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: N444MH video
Date: May 15, 2008
Grant has (apparently) had some copyright issues in the past with his
materials and I would be VERY careful about offering to make DVD's for
someone (ESPECIALLY if compensation is involved!)....even if that
someone got permission from Grant. I would encourage you to personally
get permission (in writing) from Grant before making any DVD for anyone.
And getting a copy is DEFINITELY worth the effort! I copied the video
onto my iPod and love to watch it from time to time.
just my .02 worth...
Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he made
during N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay
for it. Thanks!
Saludos
Santiago
PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to
Brodhead this year
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N444MH video
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: May 15, 2008
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:39:23
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N444MH video
Grant has (apparently) had some copyright issues in the past with his materials
and I would be VERY careful about offering to make DVD's for someone (ESPECIALLY
if compensation is involved!)....even if that someone got permission from
Grant. I would encourage you to personally get permission (in writing) from Grant
before makingany DVD for anyone.
Andgetting a copy is DEFINITELY worth the effort! I copied the video onto my iPod
and love to watch it from time to time.
just my .02 worth...
Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he madeduring N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay for it. Thanks!
Saludos
Santiago
PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to Brodhead this year
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Speaking of DVDs
Date: May 15, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
This talk about Grant MacLaren's video reminded me that yesterday when I
got home from work, I had a nice surprise waiting for me. It was my copy
of the Pietenpol documentary "Finding Flight". The documentary itself is
only eleven minutes long, but there are extras as well, including a
segment on the Brodhead gathering, a visit to the Fillmore County
Museum, and an extended interview with Donald Pietenpol, as well as
footage of a bunch of Pietenpols (and a few other vintage planes) taking
off, taxying and landing, and the back of my head appears in a couple of
scenes, too. This is a professional job, so it's really well done. The
cinematography is really nice, and there's nice music too. A nice way to
spend an hour.
And there are no copyright issues here, just send them your $15 plus
shipping&handling and in just a few days you get a nice new DVD that you
can watch as many times as you want. Just don't try to make copies...
because as Chuck Gantzer says at the beginning of his Piet DVD, "it's
also against.....the.......law".
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2008
Subject: Got my "Finding Flight" DVD today
Hi all,
I just received my copy of the B.H. Pietenpol documentary "Finding Flight".
Can't wait to get home and pop it in the player!! Will give you the review
later!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2008
Subject: Re: Speaking of DVDs
I got Chucks, Michael's and now this one. I am curious about any others that
may be available. I would love to have a full compliment of Pietenpol videos
to add to my Pietenpol video library. It would be nice to know if there is a
listing of all the Piet videos available for recopy or purchase to add to my
fledgling library of great videos.
Anyone have the comprehensive video library list?
John
In a message dated 5/15/2008 4:29:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:
This talk about Grant MacLaren's video reminded me that yesterday when I got
home from work, I had a nice surprise waiting for me. It was my copy of the
Pietenpol documentary "Finding Flight". The documentary itself is only eleven
minutes long, but there are extras as well, including a segment on the
Brodhead gathering, a visit to the Fillmore County Museum, and an extended
interview with Donald Pietenpol, as well as footage of a bunch of Pietenpols (and
a
few other vintage planes) taking off, taxying and landing, and the back of my
head appears in a couple of scenes, too. This is a professional job, so it's
really well done. The cinematography is really nice, and there's nice music
too. A nice way to spend an hour.
And there are no copyright issues here, just send them your $15 plus
shipping&handling and in just a few days you get a nice new DVD that you can watch
as many times as you want. Just don't try to make copies... because as Chuck
Gantzer says at the beginning of his Piet DVD, "it's also
against.....the.......law".
Bill C.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 15, 2008
Subject: Re: Got my "Finding Flight" DVD today
Still here in Chicago and my copy came in, I am looking forward to watching
that as soon as I get home to Pennsylvania
John
In a message dated 5/15/2008 4:32:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:
Hi all,
I just received my copy of the B.H. Pietenpol documentary "Finding Flight".
Can't wait to get home and pop it in the player!! Will give you the review
later!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
____________________________________
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? _Get new twists on family favorites at
AOL Food_ (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) .
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N444MH video
From: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?=" <AmsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Date: May 15, 2008
please add me to the list also
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:04:55
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N444MH video
I would like one.
Kirk Huizenga wrote: If any of you have contact with Grant let
him know that I would be willing to make him a bunch of DVD copies that he
can sell.
Kirk
On May 15, 2008, at 11:25 AM, santiago morete wrote:
Grant MacLaren authorized me to get a copy of the video he madeduring N444MH building http://users.aol.com/bpanews/video.html
Someone offers to make a DVD copy for me? Off course I will pay for it. Thanks!
Saludos
Santiago
PS:Finally working on the propeller and dreaming of going to Brodhead this year
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: N444MH video
Date: May 15, 2008
Until Grant has authorized Kirk (or someone) to make copies, and has offered
them for sale, I don't think there's any point in having a "list".
Unless the purpose of the list is to gauge whether there's enough interest
out there to make the effort worthwhile.
And if that's the case, then add me to the list, too.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: N444MH video
Not trying to be a jerk here. I heard a rumor. Let me say it again, rumor,
that Grant operated a newsletter, collected people's subscription money in
advance, then abruptly stopped the newsletter and kept all the money. Can
anybody simply say, yes, that happened or, no, it didn't?
That will help me decide if I want to buy anything from him for quite a few
reasons.
This and his disappearance from the Pietenpol scene happened before I
discovered the project and all the other good people that go along with the
Pietenpol experience.
Sorry if I am being a dark cloud on a relatively positive topic.
On 5/15/08, Jim Markle wrote:
>
> Grant has (apparently) had some copyright issues in the past with his
> materials and I would be VERY careful about offering to make DVD's for
> someone (ESPECIALLY if compensation is involved!)....even if that someone
> got permission from Grant. I would encourage you to personally get
> permission (in writing) from Grant before making any DVD for anyone.
>
> And getting a copy is DEFINITELY worth the effort! I copied the video onto
> my iPod and love to watch it from time to time.
>
> just my .02 worth...
>
>
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 15, 2008
In this case I agree. I just butt jointed the plywood on the rib.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch
plywood?
Thats exactly what I did. Scarfing isn't necessary for the leading
edge plywood. Since Bernard originally used cardboard from quaker oats
oatmeal tubing, scarfing would have been a little difficult.
Getting ready to go out this morning and help a friend cover his Piet.
Rick Schreiber.
Valparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 5/15/2008 5:08:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch
plywood?
Guys,
I did not scarf any plywood. When I nailed/glued the 1/16 ply to the
wing, I only lapped one half of the rib width. Then the next piece
lapped the other half of the rib width. Worked like a charm. Just like
when you put up a piece of drywall on a stud wall, bearing only half of
the 2 x 4.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: N444MH video
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 15, 2008
Glenn (and others),
Unfortunately, somehow some rumors got started about Grant. Grant is a great guy
to those that got to know him through the Buckeye Pietenpol Association. He
took over the well established BPA newsletter from Frank Pavliga Sr. He said
he would do it for 10 years. That's just what he did. I kept myself paid up
for the newsletter and I think there may have been one newsletter at the end
that didn't get printed up for what I paid for. Big deal. He wrote a fantastic
newsletter for 10 years and put loads and loads of time and research into
the Pietenpol stuff. I'm sure few of us would have put the time and effort into
it like he did for the small amount of money taken in through the newsletter
subscriptions. He still visits the Brodhead Fly-in every other year or so.
I think he just kind of decided it was time to pursue other interests. As for
the copyright on the newsletter and other things, the guy put 10 years of hard
work into all this stuff and did a terrific job on them so I can fully understand
his wanting to protect his work. Unfortunately a few people must have
gotten upset by paying their few dollars at the end of his run and didn't get
their newsletter. They spoke up without realizing his huge commitment over the
previous 10 years. Among many other things he was adamant about the Pietenpol
family getting credit for what a great design Mr. Pietenpol created. I just
wanted to clarify some of this stuff before the mud starts flying because there
really isn't any to throw.
I'm stepping off the soap box now!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183385#183385
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 15, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: N444MH video
Thanks Don. Like I said, it was a rumor, and since I don't know anything
about him other than the stuff in the rumor, I was just interested in
finding out if he is a scam artist. Sounds like the story was blown out of
proportion. Didn't mean to rile anyone up. Yikes. No mud, I swear!
On 5/15/08, Don Emch wrote:
>
>
> Glenn (and others),
>
> Unfortunately, somehow some rumors got started about Grant. Grant is a
> great guy to those that got to know him through the Buckeye Pietenpol
> Association. He took over the well established BPA newsletter from Frank
> Pavliga Sr. He said he would do it for 10 years. That's just what he
> did. I kept myself paid up for the newsletter and I think there may have
> been one newsletter at the end that didn't get printed up for what I paid
> for. Big deal. He wrote a fantastic newsletter for 10 years and put loads
> and loads of time and research into the Pietenpol stuff. I'm sure few of us
> would have put the time and effort into it like he did for the small amount
> of money taken in through the newsletter subscriptions. He still visits the
> Brodhead Fly-in every other year or so. I think he just kind of decided it
> was time to pursue other interests. As for the copyright on the newsletter
> and other things, the guy put 10 years of hard work into all this stuff and
> did a terrific job o!
> n them so I can fully understand his wanting to protect his
> work. Unfortunately a few people must have gotten upset by paying their few
> dollars at the end of his run and didn't get their newsletter. They spoke
> up without realizing his huge commitment over the previous 10 years. Among
> many other things he was adamant about the Pietenpol family getting credit
> for what a great design Mr. Pietenpol created. I just wanted to clarify
> some of this stuff before the mud starts flying because there really isn't
> any to throw.
>
> I'm stepping off the soap box now!
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183385#183385
>
>
--
Glenn Thomas
Storrs, CT
http://www.flyingwood.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 15, 2008
Thanks for all the comments,
Thought of just butting them together, but it sounds like it might be interesting
to see if I can get them scarfed somehow.
Read that system3's clear coat can be used with T-88 without any problem, so was
thinking that if the okoume is flexible enough to conform to the leading edge
shape, it would work to clear coat it first then put the plywood on, then touch
up a bit, that way the inside would get coated. Seems like that would be easiest
way to get a good result. With the clear coat the idea is you don't have
to leave the joint surfaces bare until you use the T-88, so it makes it easier,
and if some time passed it would all be sealed the same. (Probably need to
scuff it up before gluing.. hoping it all goes together pretty quick.)
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183391#183391
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era
Date: May 16, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Glenn,
Your questions are good ones and Don Emch's synopsis of Grant's
story is accurate and clear. Grant spent countless
hours of his own private life every year for TEN years answering
e-mails, letters, phone calls and in-person inquiries to all things
relating to the Pietenpol movement and barely broke even for his
expenses, printings, mailings, and other efforts for what, a measly
$10 per year for four quarterly issues ? Forgive me if it might have
been $15 but some in the Pietenpol movement chose to
complain about an issue or two not being delivered when you can't much
less buy a large pizza anymore for the price of what a
yearly subscription cost. In addition to producing the Pietenpol
newsletter Grant created a web site with reams and reams of
information that still is available for all of us to view for free.
http://users.aol.com/bpanews/www.html
I can understand if one paid for a subscription and then one quarter
later they ceased coming but in the big scheme of things
for say how much a brass turnbuckle costs or an AN shackle, I viewed the
complaining and grumbling typical of cheap, ungrateful,
homebuilder types who won't ever remember you for 10 years of fantastic
volunteer service but they'll hang you out to dry because
they were out of pocket ten or fifteen dollars. How petty is that ?
Speaking of ungrateful, thankless BPAN members
(not that any of them exists anymore:), we need to (myself included)
write a note of thanks or an e-mail or shake Doc Mosher's
hand for picking up the torch where Grant laid it down with regard to
the good newsletter that Doc and Dee produce. Not only is Doc
doing us a favor but to those who might not be computer-minded and rely
on getting that paper newsletter a few times a year to keep
in touch with a passion that we all share.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: May 16, 2008
Didn't know the details, but after hearing one person's version of the story it
was quite different than what I'm hearing now. When I go to Google for Pietenpol
information, something with Grant's name on it invariably comes up and is
invariably worth reading. I guess he actually IS one of the good ones.
After hearing the rumor about him taking 2 years of prepaid newsletter money and
bailing out, keeping the money and then all the quibbling about copyright regarding
making past newsletters available on a website just left me wondering.
But I am getting a strong sense that the story surrounding his departure is
greatly exagerated. I figured the good people in Pietenpol land who have more
longevity than I in the Pietenpol community would be able to give me a better
sense of his friend or foe status and dispel any rumors.
Hope this is over with now. Wasn't thinking that this could get ugly (and I hope
it doesn't)
Thanks
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183420#183420
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
Date: May 16, 2008
Just wondering, Jim, what's the big deal about sealing the underside of the
ply after it's glued in place? You should have plenty of access from the
underside of the wing, since the skin only goes on the top side of the
leading edge. Seems a lot easier to work with unfinished plywood, than it
would be to work with varnished ply, especially when it needs to be curved.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era
Date: May 16, 2008
A few years ago, as the result of a heated discussion here on the list,
regarding copying the old BPAN newsletters, Grant's name got knocked around
a bit. Apparently there were a few people out there that couldn't forget
about a ten-dollar loss from ten years ago. Personally, I've got more
serious things to worry about than something as small as that. Anyway, at
that time I ended up communicating directly with Grant, and I concluded that
he was not being unreasonable. He simply was exercising his rights, as
publisher of the newsletter. Legally, the old newsletters (and his video, I
assume) are his, and only he can decide who may copy any of them, in part,
or in whole. At that time, I did make a suggestion to Grant that I believed
there would be a fair bit of interest, amongst the newer builders who missed
out on the original newsletters, if he were to consider republishing the
back-issues, or even better, compiling them on to a CD, and offering them
for sale. I didn't hear any more about it, so I assume that he wasn't/isn't
interested in the idea. Fair enough. We all move forward in life, and leave
some things in the past. Luckily, Grant has maintained his BPA website,
which is a wealth of information, and was initially my primary source of
information about this great old plane. I still refer to it regularly.
So, if you're out there reading this, Grant, thank you.
(and have you thought any more about that CD idea?)
Bill C.
P.S.
Two-and-a-half years ago there was a notice that the International Pietenpol
Association newsletter was going to be revived, after a period of dormancy.
I signed up, and sent my money. I haven't seen a newsletter yet, but they
said my dues would get me 48 pages of newsletters (in two or three issues) -
without promising a schedule for publication. I'm going to assume that they
will eventually put together some newsletters, and send me a copy when they
do. But if they don't. oh well, it was only fifteen bucks. I look at it like
paying to see a movie that turns out to be a stinker. No big loss.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Tomorrow at French Valley
Date: May 16, 2008
Join me and a bunch of other Vairheads from Chapter 1279 and Chapter 1
tomorrow (Saturday, May 17th) at 8am at French Valley airport, Temecula CA.
Huge Corvair confab, engine build, maybe even an engine run.
http://www.eaa1279.org/
8am Engine build for Chapter 1279's Pietenpol project
http://www.eaa1279.org/Pietenpol.htm
And 11am for the BBQ.
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era
Date: May 16, 2008
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren
EraTOTALLY agree with everything... I just wish I could have said it as
clearly and eloquently as YOU said it Bill!
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the
MacLaren Era
A few years ago, as the result of a heated discussion here on the
list, regarding copying the old BPAN newsletters, Grant's name got
knocked around a bit. Apparently there were a few people out there that
couldn't forget about a ten-dollar loss from ten years ago. Personally,
I've got more serious things to worry about than something as small as
that. Anyway, at that time I ended up communicating directly with Grant,
and I concluded that he was not being unreasonable. He simply was
exercising his rights, as publisher of the newsletter. Legally, the old
newsletters (and his video, I assume) are his, and only he can decide
who may copy any of them, in part, or in whole. At that time, I did make
a suggestion to Grant that I believed there would be a fair bit of
interest, amongst the newer builders who missed out on the original
newsletters, if he were to consider republishing the back-issues, or
even better, compiling them on to a CD, and offering them for sale. I
didn't hear any more about it, so I assume that he wasn't/isn't
interested in the idea. Fair enough. We all move forward in life, and
leave some things in the past. Luckily, Grant has maintained his BPA
website, which is a wealth of information, and was initially my primary
source of information about this great old plane. I still refer to it
regularly.
So, if you're out there reading this, Grant, thank you.
(and have you thought any more about that CD idea?)
Bill C.
P.S.
Two-and-a-half years ago there was a notice that the International
Pietenpol Association newsletter was going to be revived, after a period
of dormancy. I signed up, and sent my money. I haven't seen a newsletter
yet, but they said my dues would get me 48 pages of newsletters (in two
or three issues) - without promising a schedule for publication. I'm
going to assume that they will eventually put together some newsletters,
and send me a copy when they do. But if they don't. oh well, it was only
fifteen bucks. I look at it like paying to see a movie that turns out to
be a stinker. No big loss.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
I did the same.
Rick
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Dick Navratil
wrote:
> In this case I agree. I just butt jointed the plywood on the rib.
> Dick N.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Richard Schreiber
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:14 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
>
> Thats exactly what I did. Scarfing isn't necessary for the leading edge
> plywood. Since Bernard originally used cardboard from quaker oats oatmeal
> tubing, scarfing would have been a little difficult.
>
> Getting ready to go out this morning and help a friend cover his Piet.
>
> Rick Schreiber.
> Valparaiso, IN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:*
> *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* 5/15/2008 5:08:22 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
>
> Guys,
>
> I did not scarf any plywood. When I nailed/glued the 1/16 ply to the wing,
> I only lapped one half of the rib width. Then the next piece lapped the
> other half of the rib width. Worked like a charm. Just like when you put up
> a piece of drywall on a stud wall, bearing only half of the 2 x 4.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at
> AOL Food <http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001>.
>
> **
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era
Well put Mike, totally agree.
Rick
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:47 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <
michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> wrote:
> Glenn,
>
> Your questions are good ones and Don Emch's synopsis of Grant's story
> is accurate and clear. Grant spent countless
> hours of his own private life every year for TEN years answering e-mails,
> letters, phone calls and in-person inquiries to all things
> relating to the Pietenpol movement and barely broke even for his expenses,
> printings, mailings, and other efforts for what, a measly
> $10 per year for four quarterly issues ? Forgive me if it might have
> been $15 but some in the Pietenpol movement chose to
> complain about an issue or two not being delivered when you can't much
> less buy a large pizza anymore for the price of what a
> yearly subscription cost. In addition to producing the Pietenpol
> newsletter Grant created a web site with reams and reams of
> information that still is available for all of us to view for free.
> http://users.aol.com/bpanews/www.html
> I can understand if one paid for a subscription and then one quarter later
> they ceased coming but in the big scheme of things
> for say how much a brass turnbuckle costs or an AN shackle, I viewed the
> complaining and grumbling typical of cheap, ungrateful,
> homebuilder types who won't ever remember you for 10 years of fantastic volunteer
> service but they'll hang you out to dry because
> they were out of pocket ten or fifteen dollars. How petty is that ?
> Speaking of ungrateful, thankless BPAN members
> (not that any of them exists anymore:), we need to (myself included) write
> a note of thanks or an e-mail or shake Doc Mosher's
> hand for picking up the torch where Grant laid it down with regard to the
> good newsletter that Doc and Dee produce. Not only is Doc
> doing us a favor but to those who might not be computer-minded and rely on
> getting that paper newsletter a few times a year to keep
> in touch with a passion that we all share.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Are you guys scarfing 1/16th inch plywood?
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 16, 2008
I wouldn't make a big deal of it except I am trying to walk thru how to do the
leading edge.
This is for a lower wing.. so its different. You can see the plane at www.westcoastpiet.com under photos, under Jim D.
The lower wing ribs are squared off. The Pietenpol Aerial plans (Chad Wille's design)
shows a shaped piece of wood that is bolted to each of the ribs to form
a backing for the wing wrap, and the plans say to use wood for it instead of
aluminum.. but that is it, nothing explicit about how far to wrap it. I presumed
that with the weight of the wrap being so low, it would be best to make a "D"
section out of it, which would make getting to the back side of it once it
was glued in place about impossible.
With the shaped leading edge support piece in place, even if I didn't wrap it all
the way back to the spar it would still be tight to try to seal it, I would
think.
This is my first plane.. bound to ask some dumb questions.
Seemed like having the spar top and bottom to glue to would make it easier to install
the wrap, and would make it easy to finish, just run a flush router bit
along the spar.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183482#183482
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 16, 2008
From: Mike Townsley <miket(at)southslope.net>
Subject: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the MacLaren Era
Mike C, well said, I agree whole heartedly. It is usually a hand full
of complainers who end good things in lots of organizations, (like the
church too) who are in the same way as you describe.
Pastor Mike in Iowa
Jim Markle wrote:
> TOTALLY agree with everything... I just wish I could have said it as
> clearly and eloquently as YOU said it Bill!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bill Church
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 16, 2008 10:11 AM
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thankless BPAN Members from the
> MacLaren Era
>
> A few years ago, as the result of a heated discussion here on the
> list, regarding copying the old BPAN newsletters, Grant's name got
> knocked around a bit. Apparently there were a few people out there
> that couldn't forget about a ten-dollar loss from ten years ago.
> Personally, I've got more serious things to worry about than
> something as small as that. Anyway, at that time I ended up
> communicating directly with Grant, and I concluded that he was not
> being unreasonable. He simply was exercising his rights, as
> publisher of the newsletter. Legally, the old newsletters (and his
> video, I assume) are his, and only he can decide who may copy any
> of them, in part, or in whole. At that time, I did make a
> suggestion to Grant that I believed there would be a fair bit of
> interest, amongst the newer builders who missed out on the
> original newsletters, if he were to consider republishing the
> back-issues, or even better, compiling them on to a CD, and
> offering them for sale. I didn't hear any more about it, so I
> assume that he wasn't/isn't interested in the idea. Fair enough.
> We all move forward in life, and leave some things in the past.
> Luckily, Grant has maintained his BPA website, which is a wealth
> of information, and was initially my primary source of information
> about this great old plane. I still refer to it regularly.
>
> So, if you're out there reading this, Grant, thank you.
> (and have you thought any more about that CD idea?)
>
> Bill C.
>
> P.S.
> Two-and-a-half years ago there was a notice that the International
> Pietenpol Association newsletter was going to be revived, after a
> period of dormancy. I signed up, and sent my money. I haven't seen
> a newsletter yet, but they said my dues would get me 48 pages of
> newsletters (in two or three issues) - without promising a
> schedule for publication. I'm going to assume that they will
> eventually put together some newsletters, and send me a copy when
> they do. But if they don't... oh well, it was only fifteen bucks.
> I look at it like paying to see a movie that turns out to be a
> stinker. No big loss.
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: May 17, 2008
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 05/16/08
I will also second the accolades for Grant McLaren's work on the Buckeye
Pietenpol Newsletter. I am amazed at the volume and quality of work that he
produced -- pro bono! His work is a terrific resource and solid foundation for
anyone building or interested in Pietenpol airplanes. We absolutely owe him a debt
of gratitude.
Fred Beseler
La Crosse, WI
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NX92GB, fun with cross winds
Don, That sounds like a plan! I went to a pankake breakfast today at Delaware
Airport, and gave them some cheap entertainment with my landing....landings.
15 gust to 25 45 deg to the runway (paved). No fun when you have to clean the
seat cusion off when you get to breakfast. Had a ground speed of 35 going over,
and 115 coming back, of course no one saw my good landing when I got home.
I made a list of a bunch of Ohio fly-ins for the summer and am going to try
to make most of them, and look forward to Brodhead.
Shad
Don Emch wrote:
Hey Shad...
I'm planning on the Barber Fly-in. I might even camp over night. I think it's the
first weekend in June. Right? Maybe I can park by you since I'm not an auto
conversion. Ha. I went last year and enjoyed it. Maybe we can try to get together.
You should get to see the "NEW" Sky Gypsy by then! I can't make it to the
Wynkoop Fly-in, I'll be on vacation. Maybe we can get Mr. Cuy to come down to
Barber. Might as well try to get Skip to come up too. Hey while we're at it
we better get a hold of Wil Graff. Ya know it's starting to sound like a Pietenpol
Fly-in. I could even hop some rides. I suppose we could just all try to fly
in there, but not actually call it a Fly-in.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182815#182815
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Who's flying to Brodhead from the Ohio area?
Just wondering if any other Ohio Piet's, or other low and slow airplanes are flying
up to Brodhead this year. Not sure if we are leaving thurs or friday, but
we will drive the chase truck up as well. We will probably make our first stop
in Van wert ohio for fuel. If anyone wants to meet up there they can throw
some of there baggage in the back of the truck( it's covered so it wont get
wet or stollen. We plan on flying down US RT 30 around Chicago, up east of rockford
to Poplar Grove and on to Brodhead. Should be able to do it in a 10 hr
day, 6-7 hrs flight time about 370 st miles from central ohio. After Brodhead
I am going into the bee hive called Airventure for sun, mon and head home on
tues a.m. If any of you want to have a mini Mid West Air Tour let me know.
Shad
NX92GB
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead Video
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 17, 2008
I just checked youtube for any new Piet videos and I found this one added by longtime
Brodhead regular Mike Madrid;
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfvQEdbTNjE
A very nice well done job!
Thanks Mike!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183572#183572
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 17, 2008
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead Video
G...D...Boys:
There's nothing like homebuilts flying & Straus to bring a tear to the 'ole
eye! Nice job.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Video
>
> I just checked youtube for any new Piet videos and I found this one added
> by longtime Brodhead regular Mike Madrid;
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfvQEdbTNjE
>
> A very nice well done job!
>
> Thanks Mike!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183572#183572
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who's flying to Brodhead from the Ohio area?
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 17, 2008
Hey Shad,
I'd really like to do Brodhead this year but I'm going through a job change so
I'm not too sure what I can do for time off. We'll have to keep in touch on it
because if I did fly up it would be to leave on Thursday afternoon, weather
cooperating. I think for the Barber Fly-in I'm going to head over on Friday evening
and camp over night. I have a graduation party in the afternoon and a
wedding reception in the evening on Saturday, so I'll probably head home around
lunch. We should try to meet up if you can. I'd like to check out your guys'
Piet. It would be fun to just hang out, hop a few rides and have a good breakfast.
I'll probably try to do the same thing there for the T-craft Fly-in
on July 11-12.
Don E.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183605#183605
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Step
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: OHHH CRAPP!!!! LESSON IN BUILDING!!
Hello Guys, hope your day went better than mine! I was out today working on my
wings for my Jungster 1, and after 5 hrs of prep and gluing I heard the worst
sound a homebuilder can hear..... CRUNCH, CRACK, SILENCE!, Then 15 min. of severe,
prolonged cussing! I glued my false spars for the ailerons in to the ribs
and had it clamped , and 10 min later bumped into the bench, the whole thing
fell off the work bench crashed to the floor, and broke off 2 of the ribs, top
and bottom caps, trailing edge and all. I can fix it but, for about 10 min
I thought about throwing the damn wing pannel in the yard and running it over
with the Allis Chalmers, and starting over. I got one rib is fixed, now I have
to scarf in some trailing edge stock, and plywood strip and try to keep it
looking steright. One bad thing about wood is it can't be driled off and replaced
like aluminum airplanes. However I am lucky it broke where it did (If you
can call it lucky) because I can fix it
relitivily eaisly, and cheaply. The hard part is going to be scarffing in the
trailing edge pieces and make it look profesional. LESSON: MAKE SURE THAT WHILE
BUILDING YOU KEEP THE STRUCTURE WELL AWAY FROM THE EDGES OF THE WORK BENCH,
AND IT CAN NOT TOPPLE OVER, OR OFF THE BENCH, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS TOP HEAVY
BECAUSE OF "C"CLAMPS, OR OTHER HEVY TOOLS. I will try not to add too much more
"charactor" to my airplane untill I am ready for fabric and paint.
LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE!!!!!
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Step
Peter:
I thought about doing something like that for passenger steps but ...
Doesn't that get in the way of your rudder cables?
Tom Stinemetze
>Check out the photo for details of my pilot/passenger steps
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