Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gy
August 20, 2008 - September 03, 2008
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:03 PM
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
>
> Greg,
>
> Is that Stanton?
>
> Kirk
> On Aug 20, 2008, at 5:07 PM, gcardinal wrote:
>
>> With a 200# pilot, 160# passenger and 85# of fuel, NX18235 flies very
>> nicely on an 80 degree evening.
>> Here is the view on short final.
>>
>> Greg Cardinal
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:44 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I regularly carry my Dad. He is about 225lbs. or so. I go about
>>> 180lbs. I've gone with full fuel several times. On Andrew's Brodhead
>>> trip this year he carried himself and Nigel Hitchman on a couple of
>>> flights. One of which was for a TP cutting routine out of the
>>> hayfield. I would imagine that makes for a total passenger weight of
>>> about 430lbs or so. A bit much for my taste, but they seemed to make
>>> out just fine. Don't really know other conditions.
>>>
>>> Don Emch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199703#199703
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
Since everyone is going suggesting nails and you asked about clamps, and I used
clamps, thought I would chime in. The clamps barely need to supply any pressure.
I made mine very adjustable. The benefit of clamps is I can flip mine on
and off the gussets easily. After the glue is applied to both the capstrip
and the gussets I can pop all the gussets in place and be done with them in a
matter of a couple of minutes. Saved me a lot of time in the long run. Of course
the jig is a little over-engineered and took longer to make but made up the
time in building all the ribs and I think they came out exactly as I planned.
Here's a few links...
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=16&filter=0
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=8&filter=0
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=6&filter=0
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=12&filter=0
Leave a little overhang on the gusset and trim off later with a router and flush
trim bit.
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=17&filter=0
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199750#199750
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Greg,
Wow what a beautiful strip. I wish they made them like that in Northeast Ohio.
With some of my landings I could sure use nice wide flat runways like that!!!!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199755#199755
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
Greg.........
-
It is now my screen savior.........
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
--- On Wed, 8/20/08, Don Emch wrote:
From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 9:09 PM
Greg,
Wow what a beautiful strip. I wish they made them like that in Northeast O
hio.
With some of my landings I could sure use nice wide flat runways like that
!!!!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199755#199755
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
Greg,
By any chance do you have a higher resolution picture available (something
at or above 1280x1024). We could use a big picture of heaven for our
desktop. Something to put in rotation with Jack's Piet over the river, and
Mike C on the way to Brodhead.
Have a good evening,
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:07 PM, gcardinal wrote:
> With a 200# pilot, 160# passenger and 85# of fuel, NX18235 flies very
> nicely on an 80 degree evening.
> Here is the view on short final.
>
> Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
Guess you guys never heard the phrase, "yeah, just follow the ridge"
:^)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>
> Yes, it is Stanton (SYN) on a Sunday evening about a week and a half ago.
> Gave rides to five teenagers. They all loved it.
>
> Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Huizenga" <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>
>
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> Is that Stanton?
>>
>> Kirk
>> On Aug 20, 2008, at 5:07 PM, gcardinal wrote:
>>
>>> With a 200# pilot, 160# passenger and 85# of fuel, NX18235 flies very
>>> nicely on an 80 degree evening.
>>> Here is the view on short final.
>>>
>>> Greg Cardinal
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:44 PM
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I regularly carry my Dad. He is about 225lbs. or so. I go about
>>>> 180lbs. I've gone with full fuel several times. On Andrew's Brodhead
>>>> trip this year he carried himself and Nigel Hitchman on a couple of
>>>> flights. One of which was for a TP cutting routine out of the
>>>> hayfield. I would imagine that makes for a total passenger weight of
>>>> about 430lbs or so. A bit much for my taste, but they seemed to make
>>>> out just fine. Don't really know other conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Don Emch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199703#199703
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
The original is 3872 X 2592
2.51 mb
Send request off line.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
Greg,
By any chance do you have a higher resolution picture available
(something at or above 1280x1024). We could use a big picture of heaven
for our desktop. Something to put in rotation with Jack's Piet over the
river, and Mike C on the way to Brodhead.
Have a good evening,
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 5:07 PM, gcardinal
wrote:
With a 200# pilot, 160# passenger and 85# of fuel, NX18235 flies
very nicely on an 80 degree evening.
Here is the view on short final.
Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi
Here is the method I used,I stole ideas off some others on this list and it worked
a bloody treat.One side goes on in the jig and then the other using the same
clamps as Jack used no nails needed. Hope it helps.
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199785#199785
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/peitenpol_014_179.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/peitenpol_018_120.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
I wish they made them that way in North Carolina. Here our strips are
carved out of pine forests. You usually can't see the runway until you
are almost on top of it. I enjoyed giving rides at Brodhead with its
wide open approaches. In NC I won't even think of giving a ride on
anything less than a 4,000 foot runway.
It's interesting, flying in different parts of the country and seeing
what conditions you have to put up with. I learned to fly in west
Tennessee, which is sort of like the midwest with hills. Fields are
numerous, and airports tend to have good open approaches. Then I moved
to Texas and learned to fly in wind. I had a J-3 Cub and used to fly it
out of Luck Field (Duane Cole's home field), south of Fort Worth, which
had a 2,000' paved runway that was only 12' wide. When you flared that
Cub, if you could see ANY runway at all, you were off the centerline.
When I moved to North Carolina, I found that the entire state is one big
pine forest, and airports are hidden amongst the trees. Every time I
fly to Brodhead, it is like a sigh of relief when I cross the Ohio River
and enter into the midwest, where flying is easy and good forced landing
spots are numerous. Only problem there is winter is long and not
conducive to open cockpit flying.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
Greg,
Wow what a beautiful strip. I wish they made them like that in
Northeast Ohio. With some of my landings I could sure use nice wide
flat runways like that!!!!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199755#199755
_________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Thanks, but I now have the jig made and my first prototype rib done.
--- On Wed, 8/20/08, CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com wrote:
From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com <CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how?
Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 1:15 PM
Go raid your wife's dressmaking supplies, you are looking for a "tick wheel
" its a little handle with a thin wheel on it with notches, it is used for
transferring a dress pattern to material, we use colored wax transfer paper
s between the patterns and the cloth and trace with the tick wheel, it leav
es colored dotted lines on the cloth.
Use carbon paper instead. Any fabric store should sell tick wheels for less
the $2.
Regards, Chrissi
(fabricating our Cozy engine cowls now)
-
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
====
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
| From: | "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
I'm with Glenn, had a blast "engineering" and building a clamping jig. The ribs
are built and epoxied very easily and have been impressively consistent.
It's just one more sample......
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199809#199809
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_jig_142.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
I'm a bit confused about what motorcycle links to use, and how to use them. Does
anyone have photos of how motorcycle links are used? If so, I'd appreciate directions
to a site. Thanks, Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
Dick,
I too would like to learn more. Attached is a picture from Brodhead.
I'm not sure but I think some are using size T-50 chain.
Jack
www.textors.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Motorcycle links
I'm a bit confused about what motorcycle links to use, and how to use
them. Does anyone have photos of how motorcycle links are used? If so,
I'd appreciate directions to a site. Thanks, Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
It's all really a matter of preference whether you clamp, nail, or staple
your gussets. The important thing is that youkeep the gusset in contact with
the capstrips and prevent the gusset from moving while the glue sets. If you
use clamps you can avoid the extra weight and handling of the tiny little
nails, or avoid the tedious job of pulling the staples (replaced by the
potentially tedious job of building a clamping system). In my case, I went
with a clamping system, as can be seen here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildLogReportDetail.cfm?BuildLogID=1038&Pl
aneID=510&FName=Bill&LName=Church&PlaneName=Air%20Camper
It worked well for me, and I didn't mind designing or building it.
When gluing the gussets on the back side of my ribs, I just pulled the rib
out of the jig, flipped it over and placed the gussets in place with glue.
No clamps or nails or staples. The rib does have to lay flat for this step,
until the glue sets. But then, I kept my rib jig laying flat when gluing the
first side as well, since the epoxy does have a tendency to flow when you're
not looking.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
That photo is 92gb at the rudder bar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
Jack and Dick:
Attached are a few photos of how I used drive chain links to replace
clevises. The chain size is a number 50. Get a length of #50 roller link
chain, 2 feet should be enough. Grind the pins off and then drive the pins
out with a punch. The inner link, with the rollers, are scrap, you just use
the outer links. Wherever you normally would use a clevis, replace with the
chain links. As you can see form the photos, you use a clevis pin and
cotter pin to hold the assembly together, with a washer under the cotter
pin. You may need to use additional washers to space things out. The clevis
pins for a #50 chain are AN393 at whatever length you need. I think most of
mine where 13's and 17's.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
> [Original Message]
> From: Dick Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Date: 8/21/2008 11:25:27 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Motorcycle links
>
>
> I'm a bit confused about what motorcycle links to use, and how to use
them. Does anyone have photos of how motorcycle links are used? If so, I'd
appreciate directions to a site. Thanks, Dick Carden
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
...and, yes, my jig is a hybrid of 70% Bill's idea, 30% original. ...or
was is 72/28? I lost track. The exchange of ideas promoted by this
forum is very enabling.
No matter how you make a rib jig, it will do a good job if YOU do a good
job. It's all about applying the right amount of care.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | My method for softening cap strip |
Attached is a pic of how I softened my cap strip. -It is a simple piece o
f 4" drain PVC, bottomed capped, filled with water. I soaked mine for about
30 min. nd put directly on my bending jig. I can do 4 at a time on my jig.
I cover the top of the tube when no cap strips are soaking to keep out saw
dust.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
Would it not be possible to order a box of the master link covers?
...Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires
we fill out a form you will not hear from us.
Please do not make your spam problem ours.
In a message dated 8/21/2008 5:24:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lmforge(at)earthlink.net writes:
Jack and Dick:
Attached are a few photos of how I used drive chain links to replace
clevises. The chain size is a number 50. Get a length of #50 roller link
chain, 2 feet should be enough. Grind the pins off and then drive the pins
out with a punch. The inner link, with the rollers, are scrap, you just use
the outer links. Wherever you normally would use a clevis, replace with the
chain links. As you can see form the photos, you use a clevis pin and
cotter pin to hold the assembly together, with a washer under the cotter
pin. You may need to use additional washers to space things out. The clevis
pins for a #50 chain are AN393 at whatever length you need. I think most of
mine where 13's and 17's.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
> [Original Message]
> From: Dick Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Date: 8/21/2008 11:25:27 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Motorcycle links
>
>
> I'm a bit confused about what motorcycle links to use, and how to use
them. Does anyone have photos of how motorcycle links are used? If so, I'd
appreciate directions to a site. Thanks, Dick Carden
>
>
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
Chrissi,
You could use master links, but they are just a lot more expensive. If you do a
little scrounging, you can usually find some short links of chain that you can
get for free. Thats what I did. I asked the maintenance dept. at work and they
gave me a few short left over ends for free.
When grinding off the pins, just make sure you don't go too far. Just grind one
end a little and then drive it out. You don't want to nick the link and weaken
it.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 8/21/2008 6:33:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Motorcycle links
Would it not be possible to order a box of the master link covers?
...Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires
we fill out a form you will not hear from us.
Please do not make your spam problem ours.
In a message dated 8/21/2008 5:24:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lmforge(at)earthlink.net
writes:
Jack and Dick:
Attached are a few photos of how I used drive chain links to replace
clevises. The chain size is a number 50. Get a length of #50 roller link
chain, 2 feet should be enough. Grind the pins off and then drive the pins
out with a punch. The inner link, with the rollers, are scrap, you just use
the outer links. Wherever you normally would use a clevis, replace with the
chain links. As you can see form the photos, you use a clevis pin and
cotter pin to hold the assembly together, with a washer under the cotter
pin. You may need to use additional washers to space things out. The clevis
pins for a #50 chain are AN393 at whatever length you need. I think most of
mine where 13's and 17's.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
> [Original Message]
> From: Dick Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
> To:
> Date: 8/21/2008 11:25:27 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Motorcycle links
>
>
> I'm a bit confused about what motorcycle links to use, and how to use
them. Does anyone have photos of how motorcycle links are used? If so, I'd
appreciate directions to a site. Thanks, Dick Carden
>
>
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
Hello good people!!
You can fabricate these links on your own fairly easily from 4130. That's
what I did. Just takes a few minutes. Down side is you have to paint them.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Beautiful antique altimeter on Ebay |
Here is a beautiful antique Altimeter available on Ebay (3 days left) .
Check it out.
Ebay item number 170253019708.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My method for softening cap strip |
To heck with the cap strips....LOOK AT THAT CLEAN WORKSHOP!!!!
I envy the guys that have the time to keep a clean workshop. I usually
work till I drop and say I'll clean it up the next time I work on
something. I finally clean up when all the phillips screwdrivers (11)
are scattered around the shop and I can't find one.
Keep building every day
Barry
Big Piet Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My method for softening cap strip
Attached is a pic of how I softened my cap strip. It is a simple piece
of 4" drain PVC, bottomed capped, filled with water. I soaked mine for
about 30 min. nd put directly on my bending jig. I can do 4 at a time on
my jig. I cover the top of the tube when no cap strips are soaking to
keep out saw dust.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: My method for softening cap strip |
In a message dated 8/22/2008 8:49:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
bed(at)mindspring.com writes:
To heck with the cap strips....LOOK AT THAT CLEAN WORKSHOP!!!!
Relax, I am sure it was a staged picture, maybe even photoshopped; he
probably took a picture of the pipe and inserted it into a picture from "Better
Shops and Garages"
...Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires
we fill out a form you will not hear from us.
Please do not make your spam problem ours.
I envy the guys that have the time to keep a clean workshop. I usually work
till I drop and say I'll clean it up the next time I work on something. I
finally clean up when all the phillips screwdrivers (11) are scattered around
the shop and I can't find one.
Keep building every day
Barry
Big Piet Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: _Michael Perez_ (mailto:speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net)
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My method for softening cap strip
Attached is a pic of how I softened my cap strip. It is a simple piece of 4"
drain PVC, bottomed capped, filled with water. I soaked mine for about 30
min. nd put directly on my bending jig. I can do 4 at a time on my jig. I cover
the top of the tube when no cap strips are soaking to keep out saw dust.
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Trust me Chrissi, that wasn't staged. I think Mike's Piet will be the
nearest thing to have been constructed in a clean
room environment but heck, hat's off to him. My basement or garage
didn't look that clean but I tried to keep it tidy
most of the time. Either way they are built they are fun to fly when
done !
So simple room temperature tap water and a PVC pipe is all it takes to
soften the ribs. Now there's a great idea for
keeping it simple and not having to concoct some elaborate stove-pipe
steamer rig thing that looks like a still.
Good tip Mike.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
We added a little technology into the mix on ours. We use dielectric heating
provided by a non-ionizing microwave radiation generator to initiate the
spontaneous formation of small vacuum cavities into the water before we pour
it into our PVC pipe.
Ahem.
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:36 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <
Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> wrote:
> Trust me Chrissi, that wasn't staged. I think Mike's Piet will be the
> nearest thing to have been constructed in a clean
> room environment but heck, hat's off to him. My basement or garage didn't
> look that clean but I tried to keep it tidy
> most of the time. Either way they are built they are fun to fly when done
> !
>
> So simple room temperature tap water and a PVC pipe is all it takes to
> soften the ribs. Now there's a great idea for
> keeping it simple and not having to concoct some elaborate stove-pipe
> steamer rig thing that looks like a still.
> Good tip Mike.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My method for softening cap strip |
Thank you Berry. I don't consider myself a neat freak, but I do tend to kee
p thing tidy and organized.
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Barry Davis wrote:
From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My method for softening cap strip
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 9:47 AM
To heck with the cap strips....LOOK AT THAT CLEAN WORKSHOP!!!!
I envy the guys that have the time to keep a clean workshop. I usually work
till I drop and say I'll clean it up the next time I work on something. I
finally clean up when all the phillips screwdrivers (11) -are scattered a
round the shop and I can't find one.
Keep building every day
Barry
Big Piet Builder
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My method for softening cap strip
Attached is a pic of how I softened my cap strip. -It is a simple piece o
f 4" drain PVC, bottomed capped, filled with water. I soaked mine for about
30 min. nd put directly on my bending jig. I can do 4 at a time on my jig.
I cover the top of the tube when no cap strips are soaking to keep out saw
dust.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
Thanks Mike. I hope some day, you will see my shop first hand as you guide
me through my building.-
-
I was turned off by what I saw/read about building steamers. I did not like
the fact of open flame or hot plates steaming away in the shop making the
humidity sky rocket. (May not be true, but how I saw it.) Plus it seemed to
be quite the task to fabricate one. Then I saw/heard about soaking in hot
water. The plan istelf says boiling water. (No steam) So my next logical th
ought was: Why not tap water...why does it need to be hot?" So, I riged up
this simple pipe from what I had in the shed and tried it. It worked GREAT!
So, I kept it.
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 10:36 AM
Trust me Chrissi, that wasn't staged.-- I think Mike's Piet will be the
nearest thing to have been constructed in a clean
room environment but heck, hat's off to him.-- My basement or garage di
dn't look that clean but I tried to keep it tidy
most of the time.-- Either way they are built they are fun to fly when
done !
-
So simple room temperature tap water and a PVC pipe is all it takes to soft
en the ribs.-- Now there's a great idea for
keeping it simple and not having to concoct some elaborate stove-pipe steam
er rig thing that looks like a still.
Good tip Mike.---
-
Mike C.
-
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> |
| Subject: | clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
I did my Capstrip the same way.... I think HOT water just makes the wood
get softer faster. Cold water just takes a little longer. I would fill my
plastic tube with the HOT water spigot of the drinking fountain here at
work. Soak the cap strip for 10 to 15 mins...... then put it in the jig.
done deal!!!!!
dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:08 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
Thanks Mike. I hope some day, you will see my shop first hand as you
guide me through my building.
I was turned off by what I saw/read about building steamers. I did
not like the fact of open flame or hot plates steaming away in the shop
making the humidity sky rocket. (May not be true, but how I saw it.) Plus it
seemed to be quite the task to fabricate one. Then I saw/heard about soaking
in hot water. The plan istelf says boiling water. (No steam) So my next
logical thought was: Why not tap water...why does it need to be hot?" So, I
riged up this simple pipe from what I had in the shed and tried it. It
worked GREAT! So, I kept it.
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 10:36 AM
Trust me Chrissi, that wasn't staged. I think Mike's Piet will
be the nearest thing to have been constructed in a clean
room environment but heck, hat's off to him. My basement or
garage didn't look that clean but I tried to keep it tidy
most of the time. Either way they are built they are fun to fly
when done !
So simple room temperature tap water and a PVC pipe is all it
takes to soften the ribs. Now there's a great idea for
keeping it simple and not having to concoct some elaborate
stove-pipe steamer rig thing that looks like a still.
Good tip Mike.
Mike C.
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
Oh Yea.....I used salt pieter in my tube and it was soft in seconds! To hel
l with viagra....
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Dave Abramson wrote:
From: Dave Abramson <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 10:49 AM
I did my Capstrip the same way....- I think HOT water just makes the wood
get softer faster.- Cold water just takes a little longer.- I would fi
ll my plastic tube with the HOT water spigot of the drinking fountain here
at work.- Soak the cap strip for 10 to 15 mins...... then put it in the j
ig.- done deal!!!!!
-
-
dave
-
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
Thanks Mike. I hope some day, you will see my shop first hand as you guide
me through my building.-
-
I was turned off by what I saw/read about building steamers. I did not like
the fact of open flame or hot plates steaming away in the shop making the
humidity sky rocket. (May not be true, but how I saw it.) Plus it seemed to
be quite the task to fabricate one. Then I saw/heard about soaking in hot
water. The plan istelf says boiling water. (No steam) So my next logical th
ought was: Why not tap water...why does it need to be hot?" So, I riged up
this simple pipe from what I had in the shed and tried it. It worked GREAT!
So, I kept it.
--- On Fri, 8/22/08, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 10:36 AM
Trust me Chrissi, that wasn't staged.-- I think Mike's Piet will be the
nearest thing to have been constructed in a clean
room environment but heck, hat's off to him.-- My basement or garage di
dn't look that clean but I tried to keep it tidy
most of the time.-- Either way they are built they are fun to fly when
done !
-
So simple room temperature tap water and a PVC pipe is all it takes to soft
en the ribs.-- Now there's a great idea for
keeping it simple and not having to concoct some elaborate stove-pipe steam
er rig thing that looks like a still.
Good tip Mike.---
-
Mike C.
-
-
-
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
Hate to spoil a perfectly good nonsense conversation here, but as I
understand it, the theory behind the steam or boiling water is that the high
temperatures help to break down the bonding qualities of the lignin in the
wood (the stuff that holds the wood fibers together). This allows the wood
fibers to slide past each other, and deform the wood structure. When the
wood cools back to room temperature, the lignin "sets" and holds the new
shape. Having said that, wet wood does seem to be more pliable than dry wood
- but not as pliable as hot wood.
Okay, back to the "stiff wood" jokes.
Bill C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd Smith" <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Prospective new builder... |
Well, after returning from OSH a couple of weeks ago after flying out with
my buddy in his 172, I've got a need to start flying again. After some
research and a lot of time spent on the web, I've settled on the Piet as my
plane of choice. I sat in on Mr. Rewey's forum while at OSH and will
probably order his info pack for starters. Not to mention, there's a
coworker who's also interested in somthing of this nature as well. I have
the flying and glider manuals that I purchased a few years back at OSH and I
plan to drop a MO to Michael Cuy for his video and will probably do so for
the Chuck Gantzer (is he still flying his Piet or spending all his time on
the Tailwind?) videos as well.
My first of what will probably be many questions involve the wing
construction. I'd like to go with the 3 piece wing and like the idea of the
built up spar that I've seen. This consists of a ply web with two upper and
two lower caps for each spar section. I like the idea of laminated
construction so there isn't a failure path through a single piece of wood.
Where did this spar evolve from and where do I find the complete info for
it? I've seen plans from Don Pietenpol for 3 piece wings as well as another
source which I'm sure I saved in my favorites. I'm also inclined to go for
the long fuse and build it with 30" as the inside dimension at the aft
cockpit. I'm not the most svelt person in the world. Also will probably
add the door to the front cockpit as well after watching that skinny guy on
youtube try to get into the front pit. I'm thinking C-90/O-200 for power,
mostly for takeoff performance and to somewhat overcome the additional
frontal area incurred with the wider fuse.
Not looking for a speed demon, just a putt around the patch plane that will
cut the cost of the $100 hamburger to around $45 give or take a buck or
two. Most importantly, thanks to everyone that has taken the time to share
their projects on the web to create such a wealth of information for us late
comers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
In a message dated 8/22/2008 12:18:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:
Okay, back to the "stiff wood" jokes.
O.... Ooohhh now I get it
...Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires
we fill out a form you will not hear from us.
Please do not make your spam problem ours.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
Well, since we seem to be operating on a policy of full disclosure, I better
admit that my idea was inspired by Clif Dawson's wooden clamps (thanks
Clif), so I'll say that my jig was a hybrid of 56% Clif's idea, and 44%
mine. And that would make Glenn's jig a hybrid of 39% Clif's, 31% mine and
30% Glenn's (or is that 40%/32%/28%?).
Now, we just need to know where Clif got his idea...
Bill C
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Thomas
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: No clamps on ribs?
...and, yes, my jig is a hybrid of 70% Bill's idea, 30% original. ...or
was is 72/28? I lost track. The exchange of ideas promoted by this forum
is very enabling.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prospective new builder... |
Congrats on your choice Lloyd. A couple of comments on...well, your
comments, in no particular order:
I ordered Bill's info pack and the full size Riblett airfoil from him. They
just showed up in the mail yesterday. Absolutely worth every penny. There is
a tremendous amount of useful information contained in it. He also includes
a CD audio recording of his Oshkosh forum (2006, I think it is).
If you consider using the Riblett airfoil, his full size print is excellent.
I taped it down to the jig board last night. It is very well drawn. If you
are worried about paper shrinkage/expansion making the plan not accurate,
his info pack has coordinates that you can use to draw it yourself. My print
was just fine though. The spar to spar measurement was just about dead on,
all the other measurements I checked matched what they were supposed to be.
If you haven't checked it out yet, take a look at the Matronics archive
search engine:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
Many of the questions and information you are looking for has already been
asked by someone, and you can usually find it there. If not, post a question
about it.
Pietenpol plans can be ordered from the Pietenpol family:
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
You would need the Air Camper plans, supplemental plans (for the long
fuselage), and the three piece wing plan.
Mike Cuy's DVD is excellent. Very informative and inspirational. He can give
you the appropriate warnings about what the DVD may do to your relationship
with your significant other.
Check the archives about adding a door and widening the fuselage. Adding a
door has been done successfully. If you Google Keri-Ann Price you will find
a set of plans available for that (don't know about availability on those,
but it's a start). Widening the fuselage certainly has been done. Jack
Phillips made his one inch wider, and says that he is glad he did it,
especially for long flights. However it adds weight. Widening a fuselage by
8(!) inches sounds rather excessive. If you are, as you put it, not svelte,
then the tremendous amount of weight you would add to the aircraft would
negate the need for a door in the front. You probably wouldn't be able to
carry a passenger.
If you have never sat in a Piet then you may be worrying about nothing. I
was worried about fit as well, until I was afforded the opportunity to sit
in the Last Original at Brodhead (a long fuse Piet). I fit fine. It's not
what I would call roomy, mind you, but it is comfortable. I sat in Bill
Rewey's Piet, which has a short fuselage rear cockpit, and I know for a fact
that I wouldn't want to build a short fuselage. See if there any Piets
nearby whose owners could be plied with some sort of liquid refreshments
that would show you their Piet and maybe let you try it on. Or you could
always build a mock fuselage and try that on for size. Cheap practice, and
then you will know for sure.
All for now, under the gun to get packed and out of the city (thank god!)
for the weekend. Good luck,
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:18 PM, Lloyd Smith wrote:
> Well, after returning from OSH a couple of weeks ago after flying out with
> my buddy in his 172, I've got a need to start flying again. After some
> research and a lot of time spent on the web, I've settled on the Piet as my
> plane of choice. I sat in on Mr. Rewey's forum while at OSH and will
> probably order his info pack for starters. Not to mention, there's a
> coworker who's also interested in somthing of this nature as well. I have
> the flying and glider manuals that I purchased a few years back at OSH and I
> plan to drop a MO to Michael Cuy for his video and will probably do so for
> the Chuck Gantzer (is he still flying his Piet or spending all his time on
> the Tailwind?) videos as well.
>
> My first of what will probably be many questions involve the wing
> construction. I'd like to go with the 3 piece wing and like the idea of the
> built up spar that I've seen. This consists of a ply web with two upper and
> two lower caps for each spar section. I like the idea of laminated
> construction so there isn't a failure path through a single piece of wood.
> Where did this spar evolve from and where do I find the complete info for
> it? I've seen plans from Don Pietenpol for 3 piece wings as well as another
> source which I'm sure I saved in my favorites. I'm also inclined to go for
> the long fuse and build it with 30" as the inside dimension at the aft
> cockpit. I'm not the most svelt person in the world. Also will probably
> add the door to the front cockpit as well after watching that skinny guy on
> youtube try to get into the front pit. I'm thinking C-90/O-200 for power,
> mostly for takeoff performance and to somewhat overcome the additional
> frontal area incurred with the wider fuse.
>
> Not looking for a speed demon, just a putt around the patch plane that will
> cut the cost of the $100 hamburger to around $45 give or take a buck or
> two. Most importantly, thanks to everyone that has taken the time to share
> their projects on the web to create such a wealth of information for us late
> comers.
>
> **
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Walnut shell blasting |
| From: | "Joser" <jsoto5(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Gents & Ladies, I am in the process of tearing down another Corvair engine. Does
walnut shell blasting sound good to clean the case? Is it something viable?
In the past I have had these cases hot dipped for cleaning but I still had a bunch
of cleaning to do. Thanks for all the help, Joser.
--------
Jose R. Soto
Apopka, Florida
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199980#199980
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
Not that this really addresses your question, but...
Unless you're talking something different than I'm familiar with, you absolutely
don't want to hot-dip a Corvair case or head. Hot tanks are for ferrous stuff,
not aluminum. If you dip aluminum, the acid in the tank will dissolve it and
you'll be left with a few small ferrous parts in the bottom of the tank, with
the bulk of your part in solution.
Talk to the guy with the tank (and maybe even sample a throw-away part) before
you commit something significant to the process.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Joser <jsoto5(at)cfl.rr.com>
>Sent: Aug 22, 2008 5:56 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Walnut shell blasting
>
>
>Gents & Ladies, I am in the process of tearing down another Corvair engine. Does
walnut shell blasting sound good to clean the case? Is it something viable?
In the past I have had these cases hot dipped for cleaning but I still had a
bunch of cleaning to do. Thanks for all the help, Joser.
>
>--------
>Jose R. Soto
>Apopka, Florida
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199980#199980
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
William Wynne suggests taking them to a transmission shop for cleaning.
Joser, check out his website and check to see when the next Corvair
College is being held at his shop. He is only in Edgewater, which is an
easy drive for you. The website is Flycorvair.com.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Joser wrote:
>
> Gents & Ladies, I am in the process of tearing down another Corvair engine. Does
walnut shell blasting sound good to clean the case? Is it something viable?
In the past I have had these cases hot dipped for cleaning but I still had a
bunch of cleaning to do. Thanks for all the help, Joser.
>
> --------
> Jose R. Soto
> Apopka, Florida
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199980#199980
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd Smith" <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prospective new builder... |
I was impressed with Mr. Rewey's talk as well. As for the 3 piece wing spar
arrangement, I wasn't sure if the Pietenpol supplement had the solid,
routed-out spar or built up configuration. I'll delve into that further.
I'm going to assume ( I really need to find those Flying and Glider
reprints) that the dimension of 24" width is to the outside of the fuselage
longerons, hence the 8" growth in width @ 30" inside. I'll stop at Lowe's
and pick up some 2x2's and dummy up a cockpit section and see what it would
take to be comfortable for say an hour of flight. I don't see this plane
being utilized for much longer stage lengths than that, except on the rare
occassion if one were to fly out to OSH. I did find one fellow in Raleigh,
NC that has built a Piet. I may give him a call and see if he would allow a
would be builder examine his plane.
Thanks for the suggestions and enjoy your weekend out of the city. I enjoy
living in the country fortunately and commute into our local version of a
"city".
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Congrats on your choice Lloyd. A couple of comments on...well, your
> comments, in no particular order:
>
> I ordered Bill's info pack and the full size Riblett airfoil from him. They
> just showed up in the mail yesterday. Absolutely worth every penny. There is
> a tremendous amount of useful information contained in it. He also includes
> a CD audio recording of his Oshkosh forum (2006, I think it is).
>
> If you consider using the Riblett airfoil, his full size print is
> excellent. I taped it down to the jig board last night. It is very well
> drawn. If you are worried about paper shrinkage/expansion making the plan
> not accurate, his info pack has coordinates that you can use to draw it
> yourself. My print was just fine though. The spar to spar measurement was
> just about dead on, all the other measurements I checked matched what they
> were supposed to be.
>
> If you haven't checked it out yet, take a look at the Matronics archive
> search engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
>
> Many of the questions and information you are looking for has already been
> asked by someone, and you can usually find it there. If not, post a question
> about it.
>
> Pietenpol plans can be ordered from the Pietenpol family:
> http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
> You would need the Air Camper plans, supplemental plans (for the long
> fuselage), and the three piece wing plan.
>
> Mike Cuy's DVD is excellent. Very informative and inspirational. He can
> give you the appropriate warnings about what the DVD may do to your
> relationship with your significant other.
>
> Check the archives about adding a door and widening the fuselage. Adding a
> door has been done successfully. If you Google Keri-Ann Price you will find
> a set of plans available for that (don't know about availability on those,
> but it's a start). Widening the fuselage certainly has been done. Jack
> Phillips made his one inch wider, and says that he is glad he did it,
> especially for long flights. However it adds weight. Widening a fuselage by
> 8(!) inches sounds rather excessive. If you are, as you put it, not svelte,
> then the tremendous amount of weight you would add to the aircraft would
> negate the need for a door in the front. You probably wouldn't be able to
> carry a passenger.
>
> If you have never sat in a Piet then you may be worrying about nothing. I
> was worried about fit as well, until I was afforded the opportunity to sit
> in the Last Original at Brodhead (a long fuse Piet). I fit fine. It's not
> what I would call roomy, mind you, but it is comfortable. I sat in Bill
> Rewey's Piet, which has a short fuselage rear cockpit, and I know for a fact
> that I wouldn't want to build a short fuselage. See if there any Piets
> nearby whose owners could be plied with some sort of liquid refreshments
> that would show you their Piet and maybe let you try it on. Or you could
> always build a mock fuselage and try that on for size. Cheap practice, and
> then you will know for sure.
>
> All for now, under the gun to get packed and out of the city (thank god!)
> for the weekend. Good luck,
>
> Ryan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
| From: | "Joser" <jsoto5(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Hi guys, I meant the tank where the transmission shop drops them in for cleaning.
I have spoken with WW for the next Corvair college and he said there might
be something before December, I think he said.
I took this engine down today and I cannot tell you how good this engine looks,
the case is very nice and everything came off without a hitch. The heads came
out quickly and I will be sending them either to Falcon or to WW for reconditioning.
All in All this is the best engine I have taken apart. Bob Bentz sold
me a fantastic core, thanks Bob!!!
Ben did you get your wings on this past weekend?
--------
Jose R. Soto
Apopka, Florida
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199996#199996
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
Joser,
Walnut shell blasting is definitely a way to clean parts without damaging
the aluminum. There are a couple of downsides to blasting crankcases,
however. You have to meticulously clean the case after blasting. This is
easy enough on the external surfaces, but you can count on the blast media
finding it's way into all of the oil galleys and passages. These passages
will most likely be full of old oil or grime, which the media will adhere
to. You can try your best to clean these out, but if you miss just a little
bit or cannot get it out, you risk trashing your new engine. If you still
decided to blast, you would also want to avoid blasting the crankcase mating
surfaces and crank/cam bores.
All in all, chemical cleaning is the way to go. As you mentioned, the
transmission shop would greatly reduce the hand cleaning you would have to
do. I've scrubbed two cases by hand....Super Clean, toothbrushes, a stiff
fingernail brush, etc. It's messy, and tedious.
You can hot tank aluminum cases, you just have to be sure that the chemical
they use is compatible with aluminum. For example, at the aircraft engine
shop I used to work at we had one. All the cases went in there. Rather
caustic stuff, but it didn't harm the aluminum at all. That being said, the
transmission shop is most likely the cheapest and easiest route to go.
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:56 PM, Joser wrote:
>
> Gents & Ladies, I am in the process of tearing down another Corvair engine.
> Does walnut shell blasting sound good to clean the case? Is it something
> viable? In the past I have had these cases hot dipped for cleaning but I
> still had a bunch of cleaning to do. Thanks for all the help, Joser.
>
> --------
> Jose R. Soto
> Apopka, Florida
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending |
What do you mean "looks like" ??
I LIKE my sti-----er, steamer!
Some grain, a little yeast, ah, the staff of life. :-)
Clif
When I leave this world I want a drink in one hand, a chocolate in
the other, screaming WOO HOO what a ride!
On the other hand going out peacefully in my sleep has merit too,
like my grandfather, just not screaming in terror like his passengers!
Subject: Pietenpol-List: clean workshop, good tip on rib bending
Now there's a great idea for keeping it simple and not having to
concoct
some elaborate stove-pipe steamer rig thing that looks like a still.
Good tip Mike.
Mike C.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/22/2008 6:32 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
Joser,
That is great that you have such a good core. It sure helps living in a land
without winter.
As far as sending the heads out, I don't believe WW does heads. I'm pretty
sure he recommends sending them to Falcon if you want to get them done. We
have a set of heads up there being reworked right now. We went to the
Corvair Open House Mark and William hosted right before Oshkosh, and were
able to see Mark's shop and some finished heads, heads in process, etc.
Definitely worth the money. The heads come out better than new.
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Joser wrote:
>
> Hi guys, I meant the tank where the transmission shop drops them in for
> cleaning. I have spoken with WW for the next Corvair college and he said
> there might be something before December, I think he said.
>
> I took this engine down today and I cannot tell you how good this engine
> looks, the case is very nice and everything came off without a hitch. The
> heads came out quickly and I will be sending them either to Falcon or to WW
> for reconditioning. All in All this is the best engine I have taken apart.
> Bob Bentz sold me a fantastic core, thanks Bob!!!
> Ben did you get your wings on this past weekend?
>
> --------
> Jose R. Soto
> Apopka, Florida
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199996#199996
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle links |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
I found them at a bearing supply store locally-I ended up going with 40 series
master links-might ought to upgrade to 50's but I have a feeling the 40's will
be strong enough to rip the aileron horns off the wood.they cost me a whole 60
cents apiece.full master link-not one plate.I intend to use them to connect
my aileron cables up in the center section so that I can remove the wings and
leave the cable up through the pulleys with the center section.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0014#200014
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: No clamps on ribs? |
Oh, all right! :-) It's not mine either. Since I built my ribs
eight years ago I can't remember ( can't remember
yesterday either! ) just where but I suspect it would have
been an early Sport Av or Homebuilt Aircraft mag.
I'm using chain links also and they look just like those in
Rick's pictures.
Bill is right about the lignin. The reason for steaming
is to soften it while retaining as much of the original
moisture content as possible. If you've spent all that
time and effort drying a bunch of Oak or Ash the last
thing you want to do is fill it up with water again. This
isn't an issue with such small pieces of soft porous
Spruce, Fir or Hemlock. Trust me though, 1" X 6"
of the same species is a whole other experience!
That's it! I'm outa here! Time for my constitutional.
Nothin' like a walk on the Wild West Coast of Wreck
Beach to clear the day's crud. :-)
Clif
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: No clamps on ribs?
Now, we just need to know where Clif got his idea...
Bill C
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Prospective new builder... |
Hi Lloyd,
Why are there 2 L's in Lloyd? It seems one would be sufficient.
Anyway,
I live just outside Raleigh, in New Hill. I keep my Pietenpol at Cox Field
in Apex and would be happy to show it to you sometime. Maybe we can meet
down at Sanford (TTA) with its 6,000' runway or RDU with its 10,000' one and
I can take you up in it. I don't carry passengers out of Cox - too short
and the trees are too tall. Mine will be the Pietenpol that convinces you
of the importance of building light. I weigh 200 and have carried
passengers as heavy as 205, resulting in a blistering climb rate of 100 fpm.
Works fine out of a long runway (or a midwestern airport where there is
nothing taller than a cornstalk at the end of the runway), but tends to
cause fairly severe sphincter-clinch on a short field with tall trees at the
end.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Smith
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prospective new builder...
I was impressed with Mr. Rewey's talk as well. As for the 3 piece wing spar
arrangement, I wasn't sure if the Pietenpol supplement had the solid,
routed-out spar or built up configuration. I'll delve into that further.
I'm going to assume ( I really need to find those Flying and Glider
reprints) that the dimension of 24" width is to the outside of the fuselage
longerons, hence the 8" growth in width @ 30" inside. I'll stop at Lowe's
and pick up some 2x2's and dummy up a cockpit section and see what it would
take to be comfortable for say an hour of flight. I don't see this plane
being utilized for much longer stage lengths than that, except on the rare
occassion if one were to fly out to OSH. I did find one fellow in Raleigh,
NC that has built a Piet. I may give him a call and see if he would allow a
would be builder examine his plane.
Thanks for the suggestions and enjoy your weekend out of the city. I enjoy
living in the country fortunately and commute into our local version of a
"city".
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
Congrats on your choice Lloyd. A couple of comments on...well, your
comments, in no particular order:
I ordered Bill's info pack and the full size Riblett airfoil from him. They
just showed up in the mail yesterday. Absolutely worth every penny. There is
a tremendous amount of useful information contained in it. He also includes
a CD audio recording of his Oshkosh forum (2006, I think it is).
If you consider using the Riblett airfoil, his full size print is excellent.
I taped it down to the jig board last night. It is very well drawn. If you
are worried about paper shrinkage/expansion making the plan not accurate,
his info pack has coordinates that you can use to draw it yourself. My print
was just fine though. The spar to spar measurement was just about dead on,
all the other measurements I checked matched what they were supposed to be.
If you haven't checked it out yet, take a look at the Matronics archive
search engine:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
Many of the questions and information you are looking for has already been
asked by someone, and you can usually find it there. If not, post a question
about it.
Pietenpol plans can be ordered from the Pietenpol family:
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
You would need the Air Camper plans, supplemental plans (for the long
fuselage), and the three piece wing plan.
Mike Cuy's DVD is excellent. Very informative and inspirational. He can give
you the appropriate warnings about what the DVD may do to your relationship
with your significant other.
Check the archives about adding a door and widening the fuselage. Adding a
door has been done successfully. If you Google Keri-Ann Price you will find
a set of plans available for that (don't know about availability on those,
but it's a start). Widening the fuselage certainly has been done. Jack
Phillips made his one inch wider, and says that he is glad he did it,
especially for long flights. However it adds weight. Widening a fuselage by
8(!) inches sounds rather excessive. If you are, as you put it, not svelte,
then the tremendous amount of weight you would add to the aircraft would
negate the need for a door in the front. You probably wouldn't be able to
carry a passenger.
If you have never sat in a Piet then you may be worrying about nothing. I
was worried about fit as well, until I was afforded the opportunity to sit
in the Last Original at Brodhead (a long fuse Piet). I fit fine. It's not
what I would call roomy, mind you, but it is comfortable. I sat in Bill
Rewey's Piet, which has a short fuselage rear cockpit, and I know for a fact
that I wouldn't want to build a short fuselage. See if there any Piets
nearby whose owners could be plied with some sort of liquid refreshments
that would show you their Piet and maybe let you try it on. Or you could
always build a mock fuselage and try that on for size. Cheap practice, and
then you will know for sure.
All for now, under the gun to get packed and out of the city (thank god!)
for the weekend. Good luck,
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Wow that's a familiar phrase, especially when looking for Williamson Pa airport
and the FSS
John
------Original Message------
From: walt
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Aug 21, 2008 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
Guess you guys never heard the phrase, "yeah, just follow the ridge"
:^)
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>
> Yes, it is Stanton (SYN) on a Sunday evening about a week and a half ago.
> Gave rides to five teenagers. They all loved it.
>
> Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kirk Huizenga" <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>
>
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>> Is that Stanton?
>>
>> Kirk
>> On Aug 20, 2008, at 5:07 PM, gcardinal wrote:
>>
>>> With a 200# pilot, 160# passenger and 85# of fuel, NX18235 flies very
>>> nicely on an 80 degree evening.
>>> Here is the view on short final.
>>>
>>> Greg Cardinal
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:44 PM
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: takeoff performance, Walt Evans
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I regularly carry my Dad. He is about 225lbs. or so. I go about
>>>> 180lbs. I've gone with full fuel several times. On Andrew's Brodhead
>>>> trip this year he carried himself and Nigel Hitchman on a couple of
>>>> flights. One of which was for a TP cutting routine out of the
>>>> hayfield. I would imagine that makes for a total passenger weight of
>>>> about 430lbs or so. A bit much for my taste, but they seemed to make
>>>> out just fine. Don't really know other conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Don Emch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199703#199703
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
| From: | "Joser" <jsoto5(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Thanks Ryan, I will send these heads out and will take your advise to hand scrub
the case. This one is going flying and I will be behind it, the one that I have
in the rail (VW) only flies for a couple of seconds and then we are back in
the bumps! I am having a blast doing this one but I really want all the input
from my fellow builders, I am not into re-inventing the wheel. Thanks you for
all your help, Joser.
--------
Jose R. Soto
Apopka, Florida
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0096#200096
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
Jose,
For what it's worth, I got good results scrubbing the case with a 1:1
mix of kerosene and MEK in a plastic tote big enough to hold one case
half. I used a stiff, nonmetallic brush & all the oily gunk &
"varnishy'" stuff just kind of melted off - left a very nice, shiny
case.
Kip
On Aug 23, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Joser wrote:
>
> Thanks Ryan, I will send these heads out and will take your advise
> to hand scrub the case. This one is going flying and I will be
> behind it, the one that I have in the rail (VW) only flies for a
> couple of seconds and then we are back in the bumps! I am having a
> blast doing this one but I really want all the input from my fellow
> builders, I am not into re-inventing the wheel. Thanks you for all
> your help, Joser.
>
> --------
> Jose R. Soto
> Apopka, Florida
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0096#200096
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Walnut shell blasting |
| From: | "Joser" <jsoto5(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Kip, thanks for the great tip!
--------
Jose R. Soto
Apopka, Florida
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0132#200132
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | extruded vs. rolled hinges |
Well, I rolled 41CC out of the hangar this afternoon, dreading what I would find
when I checked to see what type of piano hinges Corky used on the ailerons.
The light of day revealed rolled hinges and my heart sank (sunk?). I was so
disappointed, so fearful that the airplane is unsafe, that I fired up the engine
and went out to fly!
Folks, the airplane flies just fine with rolled hinges. There are a couple of
feet of hinge on each side, and if you get flutter going so badly that the hinges
open up enough to cut the aileron loose, you've got more to worry about than
losing an aileron.
I was so dismayed, in fact, that I flew out to Castroville to top off with fuel
and then set out to the west, to Hondo. On the way, I attacked and took out
the old steel railroad bridge that crosses the creek. Just to make sure that
the supply trains didn't make it past the bridge somehow, I went ahead and strafed
the long train that was making the loop on the tracks that go around Dunlay
on Hwy. 90, and the one behind it coming out of Hondo. They must have sent
word that I was coming in to Hondo because when I landed, there was not a single
solitary soul to be found, nobody came out to even watch me land, so I never
even shut down... I taxied back out and made an intersection takeoff and they
all stayed hidden till I left. I'll tell you, the sight of 41CC and the roar
of the 65 send them scattering for cover. I'll have to scout that bridge again
soon to make sure they don't rebuild it, and if they do... look out!
Peace reigns over the San Geronimo landscape, and Steve Dortch's newly-painted
red Suburban got a little wash job a while later as a squall line passed over
our little runway. The airplane with the rolled hinges was safely in the hangar.
Don't worry about the hinges. Go fly!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: extruded vs. rolled hinges |
Wonderful!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 8:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extruded vs. rolled hinges
>
>
> Well, I rolled 41CC out of the hangar this afternoon, dreading what I
> would find when I checked to see what type of piano hinges Corky used on
> the ailerons. The light of day revealed rolled hinges and my heart sank
> (sunk?). I was so disappointed, so fearful that the airplane is unsafe,
> that I fired up the engine and went out to fly!
>
> Folks, the airplane flies just fine with rolled hinges. There are a
> couple of feet of hinge on each side, and if you get flutter going so
> badly that the hinges open up enough to cut the aileron loose, you've got
> more to worry about than losing an aileron.
>
> I was so dismayed, in fact, that I flew out to Castroville to top off with
> fuel and then set out to the west, to Hondo. On the way, I attacked and
> took out the old steel railroad bridge that crosses the creek. Just to
> make sure that the supply trains didn't make it past the bridge somehow, I
> went ahead and strafed the long train that was making the loop on the
> tracks that go around Dunlay on Hwy. 90, and the one behind it coming out
> of Hondo. They must have sent word that I was coming in to Hondo because
> when I landed, there was not a single solitary soul to be found, nobody
> came out to even watch me land, so I never even shut down... I taxied back
> out and made an intersection takeoff and they all stayed hidden till I
> left. I'll tell you, the sight of 41CC and the roar of the 65 send them
> scattering for cover. I'll have to scout that bridge again soon to make
> sure they don't rebuild it, and if they do... look out!
>
> Peace reigns over the San Geronimo landscape, and Steve Dortch's
> newly-painted red Suburban got a little wash job a while later as a squall
> line passed over our little runway. The airplane with the rolled hinges
> was safely in the hangar.
>
> Don't worry about the hinges. Go fly!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: extruded vs. rolled hinges |
Good one! When you think about how much metal is
in that piano hinge and how much less is in the
original strap hinges, well, there shouldn't be any
question. Right? :-)
Forget that wimpy smoke stuff;
http://nieuports.com/index.asp?page=accessories
http://www.foxflier.com/lewis/lewis.htm
http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/machine-gun.htm
Clif
On the way, I attacked and took out the old steel railroad bridge that
crosses the creek. Just to make sure that the supply trains didn't make it
past the bridge somehow, I went ahead and strafed the long train that was
making the loop on the tracks that go around Dunlay on Hwy. 90, and the one
behind it coming out of Hondo. > Don't worry about the hinges. Go fly!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: extruded vs. rolled hinges |
Oscar! Your way to old to be having that much fun! (If my kids had come
home with as big a smile as I have after flying N502R, I'd have spanked them
because I would have known they had been up to something they shouldn't
have).
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extruded vs. rolled hinges
>
>
> Well, I rolled 41CC out of the hangar this afternoon, dreading what I
> would find when I checked to see what type of piano hinges Corky used on
> the ailerons. The light of day revealed rolled hinges and my heart sank
> (sunk?). I was so disappointed, so fearful that the airplane is unsafe,
> that I fired up the engine and went out to fly!
>
> Folks, the airplane flies just fine with rolled hinges. There are a
> couple of feet of hinge on each side, and if you get flutter going so
> badly that the hinges open up enough to cut the aileron loose, you've got
> more to worry about than losing an aileron.
>
> I was so dismayed, in fact, that I flew out to Castroville to top off with
> fuel and then set out to the west, to Hondo. On the way, I attacked and
> took out the old steel railroad bridge that crosses the creek. Just to
> make sure that the supply trains didn't make it past the bridge somehow, I
> went ahead and strafed the long train that was making the loop on the
> tracks that go around Dunlay on Hwy. 90, and the one behind it coming out
> of Hondo. They must have sent word that I was coming in to Hondo because
> when I landed, there was not a single solitary soul to be found, nobody
> came out to even watch me land, so I never even shut down... I taxied back
> out and made an intersection takeoff and they all stayed hidden till I
> left. I'll tell you, the sight of 41CC and the roar of the 65 send them
> scattering for cover. I'll have to scout that bridge again soon to make
> sure they don't rebuild it, and if they do... look out!
>
> Peace reigns over the San Geronimo landscape, and Steve Dortch's
> newly-painted red Suburban got a little wash job a while later as a squall
> line passed over our little runway. The airplane with the rolled hinges
> was safely in the hangar.
>
> Don't worry about the hinges. Go fly!
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 5:54 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Side by each Piet |
Yesterday we went to the 22nd anual Bowman Field flyin In Livermore Falls
Maine. A swell day was had by all. Mike Soucy's "side by each" Piet we have
mentioned before on the list was there so here are some photos. Mike reports
that the plane was built by an "retired navy aviator" in Florida and all the
empenage controls are 1/2 inch push-pull rods. Note the access door on the
aft fuse to service the mechanism. Cockpit is about 42 inches wide and has
tons of leg room. It is powere by a 65 Continental. And has a very narrow
flight envelope.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Bowman field flyin |
Also found this guy in the hangar.
Reportedly owned by a parteneship of 3 and they are looking to part with the
project. Wings are reported to be complete. The wheels looked to be about 24
inch diameter rims. Did not have a means to check the fuselage lenght but it
appears to be a long fuse given the leg room. And there was a 2.5 liter
Subaru block on the ground next to it.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | front start corvair, cracks |
Hello guys, anyone on here ever have the flywheel on a front mounted starte
r corvair crack?- I was taking the cowling off the piet yesterday to do a
n oil change and a line on the ring gear caught my eye.- Low and behold i
t was a crack.- And I found 2 more cracks, one of them broke one of the "
webbs" in half, cracked out completley.- Glad I found it, it was only a m
atter of 5-10 hrs from self destructing.- We have ordered a replacement f
lywheel from Wynne, but wodering what to do th prevent this from repeating
itself.- So just as precaution anyone with a Wynne style front mount star
ter flywheel look closely for cracks.- Look at the webbing that makes the
cross- at the center, and look behind the crank pully for the alternator
belt, that is where the worst crack was on ours.- Just thought I would w
arn, and possibly keep some one out of trouble.- Please let me know if an
yone finds any cracks, or has in the- past.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: front start corvair, cracks |
Hey Shad,
It was a pleasure to meet you up at Brodhead this year. Sorry to hear about
your cracked ring gear. Thankfully you caught it when you did before it
caused any issues. There have been a few cracked ring gears reported in the
flying Corvair population. This issue came up on the Corvaircraft list back
in June. There was the usual drama slinging back and forth between various
parties, but eventually William Wynne made a post regarding the issue. In
the interest of brevity, here is the portion of that post that deals with
the ring gears (the rest dealt with unrelated issues or the ongoing drama):
------------------------------------------------
On the subject of ring gears; We have used the FRA-235 gear for 6 or 7
years. I have made hundreds of these, and they are chosen because they are
light.
Like the ignition system, they are on a lot of planes and racking up a lot
of
hours. We have had at least 6 out of the fleet crack across a web. These
have four webs, and it will still run and start the motor with two adjacent
webs
cracked. It is an easy check on preflight.
About 3 years ago we started polishing the stamped edges of the webs to
reduce the stress risers. I have not had a polished one crack. Every one who
had
one crack got a free polished replacement from us. This information applies
to Black hub systems with a puck to hold the ring gear. Although we don't
have
nearly as many Gold hubs flying, none of them have shown any issue, and it
supports the gear with more contact area.
18 months ago I tacked several welds on Bill Clapp's ring gear to his front
alternator pulley. This stopped the issue on his aircraft. At the time his
aircraft built time faster than any other one with a front starter, so we
tested
ideas on his aircraft, while keeping track of reports from the field. This
was tried concurrently with other aircraft using polished webs.
What makes it crack? One sky dog is right, and his thought on lowering
stress risers is what we are doing. Here is another factor: bad starter
alignment
where the setting is poor enough that you can see it work the ring gear.
This
was a factor on at least two of the planes. Second is cracked cranks. Two of
the cracked ring gears showed up on engines which were later found to have
broken cranks. Jeff Garret, AKA AeroliteLLC who is claiming to offer the
solution in the form of a solid ring gear is had one of our ring gears crack
on
the engine he built for Ben Bradners 601. This is the plane which was flown
and
detonated until the crank was broken at Ocala airport last year. Yes, his
ring gear was cracked, but he also broke the crank, the case, a cylinder
assembly etc. Not really a fair test.
------------------------------------------------
That's what I have been able to find on the ring gear situation. If you
verify that your starter alignment is satisfactory, and your replacement
ring gear is polished along the webs, then hopefully you won't have any more
problems. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. Have a good night,
Ryan
On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 4:21 PM, shad bell wrote:
> Hello guys, anyone on here ever have the flywheel on a front mounted
> starter corvair crack? I was taking the cowling off the piet yesterday to
> do an oil change and a line on the ring gear caught my eye. Low and behold
> it was a crack. And I found 2 more cracks, one of them broke one of the
> "webbs" in half, cracked out completley. Glad I found it, it was only a
> matter of 5-10 hrs from self destructing. We have ordered a replacement
> flywheel from Wynne, but wodering what to do th prevent this from repeating
> itself. So just as precaution anyone with a Wynne style front mount starter
> flywheel look closely for cracks. Look at the webbing that makes the cross
> at the center, and look behind the crank pully for the alternator belt, that
> is where the worst crack was on ours. Just thought I would warn, and
> possibly keep some one out of trouble. Please let me know if anyone finds
> any cracks, or has in the past.
>
> Shad
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
| Subject: | Side by each Piet |
Great pictures of a very interesting Piet
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
Silvius
Sent: August 24, 2008 10:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Side by each Piet
Yesterday we went to the 22nd anual Bowman Field flyin In Livermore Falls
Maine. A swell day was had by all. Mike Soucy's "side by each" Piet we have
mentioned before on the list was there so here are some photos. Mike reports
that the plane was built by an "retired navy aviator" in Florida and all the
empenage controls are 1/2 inch push-pull rods. Note the access door on the
aft fuse to service the mechanism. Cockpit is about 42 inches wide and has
tons of leg room. It is powere by a 65 Continental. And has a very narrow
flight envelope.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: Returned Mail: RE: Side by each Piet |
Somehow when I tried to re-register (because I could not remember my log-on)
I wound up having posts rejected. How do I recover the user name and
password?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com [mailto:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com]
Sent: August 24, 2008 9:05 PM
Subject: Returned Mail: RE: Side by each Piet
The following message from "Robert Gow" was not
authorized for entry in the Matronics Email Lists forum.
Posts are only allowed from users with permission to post in the forum.
Visit this URL to register: http://forums.matronics.com//index.php
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: RE: Side by each Piet
****************************************
Great pictures of a very interesting Piet
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Shad, group,
I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and
inconveniences that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great
when they
are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost
savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners
warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are
following William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having
troubles from time to time.
I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5
years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just
felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I
had numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected
and resolved before they became dangerous.
The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want
in your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound
elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys
out there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs
inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking
about flying behind one.
I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol
with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out
the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine
die on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of
ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but
walked away healthy. Could have killed him.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Motorcycle chain shackles |
| From: | "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com> |
This weekend I bought some 520 (I thought a substitute for size 50
chain) motorcycle chain to use for shackles. I disassembled a couple of
links to measure the hole size. The outside couplers had a hole size of
.208 and the inside couplers had a larger hole at .283. It doesn't
appear that either of these will work with 1/8th or 3/16th pins. For
those that have used chain links do the pins fit fairly tight? Or is
520 completely different than 50?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Side by each Piet |
Does anyone have plans or pictures of the empennage push-pull control rods?
Allan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Motorcycle chain shackles |
Jack,
>From what I could find (after doing a quick web search), your assumption was
right. #520 is a size of motorcycle chain, and the "5" refers to the pitch
(5/8"), same as the 5 in ANSI#50 roller chain. From what I could find, the
pin diameter for the outer links in both cases is listed as 5.08mm (or
0.200"). This should give a nice non-binding fit with a 3/16 clevis pin. You
don't need a tight fit - and likely wouldn't even want the fit to be tight
(for ease of assembly). I believe the motorcycle chain is even tougher than
standard roller chain.
Bill C
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack T.
Textor
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle chain shackles
This weekend I bought some 520 (I thought a substitute for size 50 chain)
motorcycle chain to use for shackles. I disassembled a couple of links to
measure the hole size. The outside couplers had a hole size of .208 and the
inside couplers had a larger hole at .283. It doesn't appear that either of
these will work with 1/8th or 3/16th pins. For those that have used chain
links do the pins fit fairly tight? Or is 520 completely different than 50?
Thanks!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Side by each Piet |
Allan:
No it is a one of thing designed by the builder but if you want to figure it
out you could likely get hold of Mike Soucy who owns the side by each Piet
now. He my provide some photos.
mksoucy(at)yahoo.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06_I-of-XhM
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net>
>
> Does anyone have plans or pictures of the empennage push-pull control
rods?
>
> Allan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Group,
Just for the record one of the EAA technical advisors that is an A&P
told
me, "If you are going to hang anything automotive on that airplane then
I am
not going to waste my time with you. That's for those guys in the Lower
48
who can land in a corn field or out on a farm road when their engine
quits-and it will quit-so I recommend you put something reliable like a
Continental or Lycoming on that, and forget about a car engine. Up here
if
your engine quits it will take you a week to walk to where someone could
give you some help!"
I am putting the Corvair conversion on anyway!
Rob
Anchorage, Alaska
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
Shad, group,
I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and
inconveniences
that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they
are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost
savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners
warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are
following
William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having
troubles from time to time.
I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5
years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just
felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I
had
numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected
and resolved before they became dangerous.
The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want
in
your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound
elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys
out
there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs
inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking
about
flying behind one.
I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol
with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out
the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine
die
on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of
ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but
walked away healthy. Could have killed him.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
Dan,
Apparently I missed earlier discussion of your tailwheel. Would you
please tell me what you have (off line)?
Allan Macklem
AWMacklem(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do
take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES
their
opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to open
his naive myopic eyes: _http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html_
(http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html) on certified engine bloopers and blu
nders.
I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of
accent stripe colors and interior fabrics?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
======
In a message dated 8/25/2008 11:38:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
foto(at)alaska.net writes:
Group,
Just for the record one of the EAA technical advisors that is an A&P told
me, =9CIf you are going to hang anything automotive on that airplane
then I am
not going to waste my time with you. That=99s for those guys in the L
ower 48 who
can land in a corn field or out on a farm road when their engine quits
=94and it
will quit=94so I recommend you put something reliable like a Continen
tal or
Lycoming on that, and forget about a car engine. Up here if your engine qui
ts
it will take you a week to walk to where someone could give you some help!
=9D
I am putting the Corvair conversion on anyway!
Rob
Anchorage, Alaska
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general
Shad, group,
I really feel for you guys after all the trouble, toils, and inconveniences
that engine has caused you. Corvairs seems to be great when they
are running well but the trend seems to be that the trade off in cost
savings using an auto engine don't equate with giving owners
warm fuzzies regarding long term reliability. Even guys who are following
William Wynne's methods and Wynne himself are having
troubles from time to time.
I flew behind a Great Planes 1835cc VW aero kit engine for the past 4.5
years and despite the engine never having missed a beat I just
felt very uncomfortable with an engine turning 3200 rpm in cruise. I had
numerous little issues with that engine but all were detected
and resolved before they became dangerous.
The beauty of homebuilding is that you can put whatever engine you want in
your Pietenpol and this post in no way is meant to sound
elitist or arrogant for all the amazingly knowledgeable auto engine guys ou
t
there like William Wynne and you guys who know Corvairs
inside and out but I just can't help feel uncomfortable in thinking about
flying behind one.
I think about John Dilatush from Colorado who built a gorgeous Pietenpol
with a turbo Subaru that ran like a Swiss watch and put out
the power he needed at his high field elevations only to have the engine di
e
on him returning from Wisconsin because of some kind of
ECU or electronic issue with the engine controls. Busted up a wing but
walked away healthy. Could have killed him.
Mike C.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave
l
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | auto engines in general |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
I couldn't agree with Chrissi more about her post about that myopic
technical counselor and his statement about auto engines.
Just as many errors can be made building up an aircraft engine as an
auto engine and just as many pilots will have trouble
running out of fuel or flying into weather they can't handle. I
wouldn't rubber stamp or paint with such a wide brush as to rule
out anything for a homebuilt or any option 'just like that'. That's
what draws me to a plans-built airplane: the freedom of flexibility
and choice in almost everything you choose or fabricate. There are
guys like Ken Perkins and Lowell Frank who have flown
hundreds if not thousands of hours behind very nicely built Model A Ford
/Funk automotive engines with good reliability and
performance....but they really, really know what they are doing. There
was an old saying of an engineer I used to work with
when things would break or not work he would look at me with all the
seriousness and sarcasm he could muster: "inanimate objects
are out to get me."
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: auto engines in general |
Well said Mike,
I was amused coming into this group in that here we have one of the original
pioneer homebuilts with what for the original choice of engines? The Model
A? It does not get much more fundamentally alternative or automotive than that.
....or simpler. That is what I admire about the "certified solution";
simplicity. They've done everything possible with an aircraft engine to be sure
that by default, it runs. Hard to beat that or argue with it anyway. I did not
say anything about cheap, cost effective or reliable.
It always seems that when your alternative engine has a fault that it fully
meets the expectations of your certified friends and ramp quarterbacks, yet
when their certified engine swallows a valve, breaks a crank, or throws an
entire cylinder assembly out through the side of the cowling (do not laugh this
has happened) that this is perfectly ok and normal because it is a known
modality of failure.
I guess there is satisfaction and comfort in knowing your failure modes?
So now somebody tell me who is ahead here, the guy walking out of the
Alaskan wilderness because he has discovered a new way his alternative engine
can
stop running or the other guy walking out of the Alaskan wilderness thankful
only his certified crankshaft broke?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a
nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned
the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that
the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's
or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and
materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made
my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | side by each piet |
Wow....with 15 yrs of collecting Pietenpol memorabilia and every BPANewslet
ter ever published, I never saw mention of plans from BHP for a "side by ea
ch" design. The Pietenpol family doesn't even list them. That must be a rea
lly rare and valuable prototype that should be preserved in a museum.
-
On a more serious note; with the herd thundering to replace original (awful
, dangerous and out-dated) airfoil with newer and better ones, how is the d
ecalage being determined? Seems to me that just bolting the new one up woul
d mean a great deal more positive incidence unless the cabanes were altered
. WWLD? (What Would Lowell Do).
-
Larry W.=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Group, machines break, thats what they do.- Thats why we do preflight ins
pections, 50hr, 100hr and so on.- I work on airliners, with 100's of thou
sands of dollars in one little box.- We change engines almost every night
,and only a fleet of 200 airplanes. Believe it or not they ARE aircraft tur
bine engines.- I guess maybe some might think people flying chevys, fords
, suburu and so on are loose cannons.- We have never had our corvair quit
, even when the crank broke it would still run.- (Don't fly down on the d
eck if you that concerned, have plenty of-altitude to glide to a safe lan
ding)- Never had any trouble starting it up.- Working out the grimlins
is part of building anything, from a streetrod to a motercycle, and occasio
nally you do get a bad part, Hell I remember getting 2 bad vacume pumps for
a 172 I was working on years ago, that was a nightmare to trouble shoot, b
ut luckly for the customer the vender he bought them from verified the
factory defect.-Even the million dollar airliner parts come "bad from st
ock", once in a while.-As for getting stranded in the back country or wil
derness of Alaska, I personally would not put myself in a situation where a
smooth, safe forced landing would be a deadly situation, due to starvation
freezing etc.- Don't get to big for your britches, no matter what you fl
y.- As soon as you start thinking your engine is unstopable, you are aski
ng for trouble.- OK off my soapbox now, but in short yes you will probabl
y have to tinker with an auto conversion more than a Cont, Lyc, but as long
as you do regular, thorough inspections, the same safety margin can be mai
ntained.
-
My 2 1/2 cents
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolThanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and
Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed
a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolMike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back
about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the
back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree to
finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear
tell it is still out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed
a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | side by each piet |
The airfoil is kind of a conversation piece=2C but it seems that a Piet wit
h a Cub wing would be a much better flying machine. But with continentals
=2C a new wing=2C modern prop etc at what point is it still a piet?
Date: Mon=2C 25 Aug 2008 13:04:21 -0700From: lnawms(at)yahoo.comSubject: Piete
npol-List: side by each pietTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Wow....with 15 yrs of collecting Pietenpol memorabilia and every BPANewslet
ter ever published=2C I never saw mention of plans from BHP for a "side by
each" design. The Pietenpol family doesn't even list them. That must be a r
eally rare and valuable prototype that should be preserved in a museum.
On a more serious note=3B with the herd thundering to replace original (awf
ul=2C dangerous and out-dated) airfoil with newer and better ones=2C how is
the decalage being determined? Seems to me that just bolting the new one u
p would mean a great deal more positive incidence unless the cabanes were a
ltered. WWLD? (What Would Lowell Do).
Larry W.
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
_________________________________________________________________
Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_P
hoto_Gallery_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
I second Crissi on this. You are a technical counselor for the
*Experimental* Aircraft Association, and you do not want some to use an
experimental engine solely because of your narrow minded, prejudicial point
of view? If this gentleman is your Tech Counselor on your project, you may
want to seek out a new one.
Ryan
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, wrote:
> Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument, I do
> take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P", FORCES
> their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him this URL to
> open his naive myopic eyes: http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html on
> certified engine bloopers and blunders.
> I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice of
> accent stripe colors and interior fabrics?
>
> Regards, Chrissi
>
> CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
> www.CozyGirrrl.com
> Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
> Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
> ==============================
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
He should have taken a pic of the tree and then the airplane for a before a
nd after. That would be awesome. On one hand I don't want a ride in it on
the other hand that is the true Pietenpol spirit. Bernard himself would h
ave been more ballsy that me. He would have flown it.
Jonathan
From: silvius(at)gwi.netTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol
-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolDate: Mon=2C 25 Aug
Mike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back abo
ut 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the back 40
=2C milled it and started building. About six months from tree to finished
flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear tell it is st
ill out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday=2C August 25=2C 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a ni
ce Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined
and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said
that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at
Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survive
d with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire
airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine th
at you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for year
s=2C given many rides=2C and gone cross country quite often. That was hi
s choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's
choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe air
plane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood=2C steel=2C welding pr
actices=2C and other fabrication methods that are known=2C tried=2C and tru
e. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck
to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't w
ant to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I too
k artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulk
heads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability=2C made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Cha
mp....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank
instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolAnd then theres this
fellow in Brazil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dMyonbPY0
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGmlH64hBLw
4 months from start to finish.
he skipped the plans part, not a sheet of paper was used, made it up in
his own head as he went along.
powered by a 73 hp 1978 Ford Corcel engine
note the "instrument panel"
The fisherman from Belize has nothing on this guy.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Mike has morals? Since when?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today. Passed
the
checkride this afternoon, only 38 ' =BD years after I got my Private
license.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Thanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices, and
Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, <mailto:Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a
nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants and
attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who
said
that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned
the
impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that
the
entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at Lowe's
or
Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often.
That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice and
if
you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards
of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't
want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and
materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic
license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made
my
landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a few
items
just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolMichael ,
Sounds like "Poplar Piet"
Fellow who had a picture of himself next to a poplar tree then next to
the plane he made out of it.
But alas, think he crashed it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Silvius
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and
back about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on
the back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree
to finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I
hear tell it is still out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in general |
Nah, shouldn't be too hard on the Tech Councelor, In days past he could
have supported a similar engine, and could have lost someone in a crash.
You never know. Can't judge a guys opinion on things that you are not
aware of.
A tech is entitled to his opinions too!
My mentor of many years, and was Desgner and AP for Leo Laudenschleger
Won't fly in a metal airplane,,,only fabric,,,Go figure.
But for me, his opinion goes,,,for everything.
Ain't Life Grand!
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvairs, Subarus, auto engines in
general
I second Crissi on this. You are a technical counselor for the
*Experimental* Aircraft Association, and you do not want some to use an
experimental engine solely because of your narrow minded, prejudicial
point of view? If this gentleman is your Tech Counselor on your project,
you may want to seek out a new one.
Ryan
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, wrote:
Rob, I do not have an axe to grind on either side of this argument,
I do take issue with people who, like your cocky "EAA tech advisor/A&P",
FORCES their opinion on other individuals. Maybe you should forward him
this URL to open his naive myopic eyes:
http://rotaryroster.net/Bloops.html on certified engine bloopers and
blunders.
I guess his version of "Experimental Aviation" is a dazzling choice
of accent stripe colors and interior fabrics?
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
=====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBush96589(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | commercial pilot |
congratulations Jack,that has to be a satisfying accomplishment!
Randy Bush
do not
archive
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Ticket |
Jack,
Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are
planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me till
age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself holding
the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out to do aerial
photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made" flying.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Singleton" <slsingleton(at)cvalley.net> |
Hi everyone. I've been lurking for sometime now and really enjoy the
site. I have decided to use birch plywood but am wondering which type to
buy. Birch Basswood or Birch Popular or does it matter. Also what is
your thought on ordering 1/4in number one grade exterior Birch from the
local lumber yard. Thanks for your help. Steve Singleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Commercial Ticket |
Main reason I wanted the commercial is to get my CFI ticket, and do
tailwheel endorsements.
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket
Jack,
Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are
planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me
till age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself
holding the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out
to do aerial photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made"
flying.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
<http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Just received word from Dee Mosher of the passing of Julius Junge. For those of
you that are not aware of Julius, he was a regular contributor to the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association Newsletter. A very knowledgable man in the field of aviation
and homebuilts. Limited details (which will be updated when available)
can be found the the BPA website.
http://pietenpols.org/
I will definitely miss Julius' contributions to the newsletters.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0571#200571
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Commercial Ticket |
Is the instrument still optional for the commercial? Did you get the instrument,
too?
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Aug 25, 2008 7:33 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket
>
>Main reason I wanted the commercial is to get my CFI ticket, and do
>tailwheel endorsements.
>
>
>
>Jack
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>HelsperSew(at)aol.com
>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:36 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket
>
>
>
>Jack,
>
>
>
>Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are
>planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me
>till age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself
>holding the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out
>to do aerial photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made"
>flying.
>
>
>
>Dan Helsper
>Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> _____
>
>It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
><http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
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aWFscy4gICBJIGRpZG4ndCB3YW50IHRvIGh1cnQgDQogICAgbXkgYnJhaW4gYnkgcmUtaW52ZW50
aW5nIHRoZSB3aGVlbC4gICBDb3NtZXRpY2FsbHkgdGhvdWdoIEkgdG9vayBhcnRpc3RpYyBsaWNl
bnNlIHdpdGggdGhpbmdzIGxpa2UgcmFpc2luZyB0aGUgDQogICAgdHVydGxlZGVjayBhbmQgY29j
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dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdA0KaHJlZj0iaHR0cDovL2Zv
cnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIj5odHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCmhyZWY9Imh0
dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24iPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNz
LmNvbS9jDQoNCg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolSince the last rain.
They're growing in his back yard. :-)
I'm using the equivalent to T-88 but when you think
about it how much moisture is going to get past the
varnish encasing everything? Eventually yes but it
could be many years. Possibly never for a hangered AC.
Good for you Jack. That's a lot of work crammed into
a half a year.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike has morals? Since when?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today.
Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my
Private license.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Thanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices,
and Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country quite
often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true. I
didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices
and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca
Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/25/2008 8:48 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolIf it was that one, the
end of the Piet had nothing to do with the building material.
Build on.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Not a very settling thought for someone building with poplar
Like me
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:10:54 -0400
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Michael ,
Sounds like "Poplar Piet"
Fellow who had a picture of himself next to a poplar tree then next to
the plane he made out of it.
But alas, think he crashed it.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Silvius
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and
back about 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on
the back 40, milled it and started building. About six months from tree
to finished flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I
hear tell it is still out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country
quite often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true.
I didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted
practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an
Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=03g(=EF
=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDM=EF=BDGq=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolThe good thing about
T-88, is that it works just as well on wet wood.
Check the spec
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 2:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Since the last rain. They're growing in his back yard. :-)
I'm using the equivalent to T-88 but when you think
about it how much moisture is going to get past the
varnish encasing everything? Eventually yes but it
could be many years. Possibly never for a hangered AC.
Good for you Jack. That's a lot of work crammed into
a half a year.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Mike has morals? Since when?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Finally an honest to goodness certified Commercial Pilot today.
Passed the checkride this afternoon, only 38 - =BD years after I got my
Private license.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:36 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
Thanks Mike,
You always put things into chrystal clear perspective.
Nice to have someone around to use as a "standard".
I know that many things on my Piet reflect your building practices,
and Morals.
thanks
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine
Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I
noticed a nice Continental powered Piet
built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined and had wheel pants
and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend
who said that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet
into the trees nearby the airport at Brodhead. The tall pines
cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot
survived with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said
that the entire airplane was built with
white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine that you'd get at
Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying
like that for years, given many rides, and gone cross country
quite often. That was his choice and he
flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's choice
and if you know how to pick out wood
you can have a pretty safe airplane...otherwise use the accepted
standards of wood, steel, welding practices,
and other fabrication methods that are known, tried, and true.
I didn't want to research every single decision
ad-nauseum so I stuck to what was pretty much FAA accepted
practices and materials. I didn't want to hurt
my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I took
artistic license with things like raising the
turtledeck and cockpit bulkheads by 1" for a more rounded
look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability, made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an
Aeronca Champ....put my luggage where Pietenpol
put gasoline and installed a nose tank instead...and chromed up a
few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/25/2008 8:48 PM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Commercial Ticket |
I got the instrument rating a few years ago (not that I've used it much
since I don't have a plane with any instruments). You can get a limited
commercial without an instrument rating (useful for aerial photography or
crop dusting) but you have to have the instrument ticket to get a CFI.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket
Is the instrument still optional for the commercial? Did you get the
instrument, too?
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Aug 25, 2008 7:33 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket
>
>Main reason I wanted the commercial is to get my CFI ticket, and do
>tailwheel endorsements.
>
>
>
>Jack
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>HelsperSew(at)aol.com
>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 6:36 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Commercial Ticket
>
>
>
>Jack,
>
>
>
>Congratulations on your commercial ticket!!! Now tell us what you are
>planning to do with it. I got mine when I was 18 years old, and it took me
>till age 51 to actually exercise my privileges. I have a photo of myself
>holding the first check for $56.00 that I earned legally, taking a guy out
>to do aerial photography. That is the first (and only) money I ever "made"
>flying.
>
>
>
>Dan Helsper
>Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> _____
>
>It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
><http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: True Blue Pietenpol |
Jonathon,
As everyone knows, the only way any airplane can genuinely attain the
prestigious title "Pietenpol Air Camper" is to fastidiously follow the 1932 Flying
and Glider Manual. No variations or modifications are allowed. All others are
fakes, alterations and copies. I myself, have chosen to unswervingly follow
these plans. Except for a few minor areas (for safety sake) and a few other
minor areas (just a small tweek of design to put my own flair on it) and a few
other minor areas (just to modernize it a bit).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Contact with builder |
Hi Guys,
Does anybody know the email address of Mark Berger, builder of "The Spirit
of Cupertino" Piet?
Thanks,
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol |
I doubt it was the wood that did it. Could be wrong? How often does wood
fail?
glue and Home Depot pine PietenpolFrom: amsafetyc(at)aol.comDate: Tue=2C 26 Au
Not a very settling thought for someone building with poplarLike meJohn
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>Date: Mon=2C 25 Aug 2008 18:10:54 -0400To
: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white
glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
Michael =2C
Sounds like "Poplar Piet"
Fellow who had a picture of himself next to a poplar tree then next to the
plane he made out of it.
But alas=2C think he crashed it.
walt evansNX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Silvius
Sent: Monday=2C August 25=2C 2008 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenp
ol
Mike:
I know a farmer a real old timer who goes by the name of Lucky and back abo
ut 1985 he built himself a Piet. He cut down a poplar tree on the back 40
=2C milled it and started building. About six months from tree to finished
flying plane. Not much for cosmetics on his rendition. I hear tell it is st
ill out there flying.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
Sent: Monday=2C August 25=2C 2008 3:00 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elmer's white glue and Home Depot pine Pietenpol
A number of years ago when I first started going to Brodhead I noticed a ni
ce Continental powered Piet built by so-and-so. It was a bit streamlined
and had wheel pants and attended on a regular basis.
One year after I left the fly-in I got a phone call from a friend who said
that ole so-and-so stall-spun his Piet into the trees nearby the airport at
Brodhead. The tall pines cushioned the impact and the owner/pilot survive
d with no hospital visit required. The recovery crew said that the entire
airplane was built with white Elmer's glue and regular white grade pine th
at you'd get at Lowe's or Home Depot. He'd been flying like that for year
s=2C given many rides=2C and gone cross country quite often. That was hi
s choice and he flew many enjoyable hours but.....again it is the builder's
choice and if you know how to pick out wood you can have a pretty safe air
plane...otherwise use the accepted standards of wood=2C steel=2C welding pr
actices=2C and other fabrication methods that are known=2C tried=2C and tru
e. I didn't want to research every single decision ad-nauseum so I stuck
to what was pretty much FAA accepted practices and materials. I didn't w
ant to hurt my brain by re-inventing the wheel. Cosmetically though I too
k artistic license with things like raising the turtledeck and cockpit bulk
heads by 1" for a more rounded look.....made my landing gear wider for more
stability=2C made my deck angle that of what I was used to..an Aeronca Cha
mp....put my luggage where Pietenpol put gasoline and installed a nose tank
instead...and chromed up a few items just to annoy the purists.
Mike C. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics
.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href=
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://ww
=================== =B7=9B~=89=ED
=B2=2C=DE=D9=CA%=A2=BD4=D3M4}=A7=1Er=8B=AB=89=EA=E7{=07(=BA=B8=9E=AD8^>'=AD
zzh=94=B8=AC=B4I=9A=8AQh=AE=E9=94=B1=EBax=C6=AD=AE=89r=C2=B2=D1^j=DB
=ABz=C3Z=BE(=1A=B6=8A=ED=A1=BA=E8=C2=C7=AD=85=E9=9A=9F"=B2=DB=AD=8AX=AD
=89=EB=2C=B9=C8Z=B0=B8=AC=B5I=FFJ=E6=ECr=B8=A9=B6*'=02=B7!=8A=F7=92y=AA=DC
=84:0=9EZ=1Aw=B0=DA=C8=1A=E8=C2=C7=82=85=ABE=01=03=E1=A2=DA=2C=85=AA=DEjwf
=B9=C8f=B9=C8f=A2=B7=9A=86=B7=9F=86=DBi=FF=FC0=C2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9B=F3Z
=BE(=1A=B6=8A=CF=89=EB^=9E=9A%.+-=86=DBi=FF=FC0=C2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9B=F3Z
=BE(=1A=B6=8A=CF=89=EB^=9E=9A%.+-=FD=A3�=3BM=13=8D $'=10=11NEC=12I=A9
=9E=82=B7=9A=B5=CA'=B5=E9=EDj[(j=F6=A2-=E5z=F8=9A=B6=17'y=B1h=AE=E9
=ACj=1A=DE~=1Bm=A7=FF=DF=A2=BB=B2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9A=1Bm=A7=FF=DF=A2
=BB=B2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9B=F6=8B=8A=CBB=A2{k=89=BB=AD=8A=89=D6y=B4=A2
=B5=E4=E1jy2=A2=E7=E8=AF*.=AE=07=A7z=BA.=B2=CB=A9=8A=ED1=ABm=0E=B6=A5-
=B2=D0=1D=9A)=DA=86=B7=9F=86=DBi=FF=FC0=C2f=AD=AE=89r=C7(=9B=F7(
=9E=DAn=EBb=A2xm=B6=9F=FF=C3 &j=DA=E8=9E'=2Cr=89r=89=ED=AE&=EE=B6*'
=FD=AF=DB=FD=FA'=B7=FAk{=F6=E8w/=E1=B6i
_________________________________________________________________
Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
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hoto_Gallery_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Contact with builder |
Dan,
There's contact info at this website:
http://myweb.cableone.net/anna22/pietenpol/index.html
(assuming it's current)
Bill C.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Contact with builder
Hi Guys,
Does anybody know the email address of Mark Berger, builder of "The Spirit
of Cupertino" Piet?
Thanks,
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | True Blue Pietenpol |
Dan=2C
Gutsy. The one that I'm trying to buy right now has a C65 so it is updated
a bit. The Continental definately takes away from the Model A's drop dead
georgously ugly nose shape. The slant nosed A planes look a lot older and
more genuine. But the wing is an even bigger deal I think=2C even if not
as noticable to some people. Undesirable traits make up a personality as m
uch as desirable traits. That said=2C if I build one I might put a Cub win
g on it and call it something else. I would love to give spruce a try afte
r working with aluminum. Might be cool to see what it is like to come in f
rom the shop with blood remaining inside of me where it belongs rather than
on the outside doing me little to no good.
Now I just have to figure out wether you were taking a jab at me. =3B)
Jonathan
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.comDate: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2008 06:42:10 -0400Subject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: True Blue PietenpolTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathon=2C
As everyone knows=2C the only way any airplane can genuinely attain the pre
stigious title "Pietenpol Air Camper" is to fastidiously follow the 1932 Fl
ying and Glider Manual. No variations or modifications are allowed. All oth
ers are fakes=2C alterations and copies. I myself=2C have chosen to unswerv
ingly follow these plans. Except for a few minor areas (for safety sake) an
d a few other minor areas (just a small tweek of design to put my own flair
on it) and a few other minor areas (just to modernize it a bit).
Dan HelsperPoplar Grove=2C IL.
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
_________________________________________________________________
Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
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hoto_Gallery_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
Well I have made a belcrank for my GN-1 according to plans dimension-but seems
to be a little short in travel.I will need to get the length of the cables set
better but right now I have what appears to be about 30 degrees of up and only
about 10 down if that.I am wondering how much difference is needed to safely
fly if the plane is in the G range.I expect more up than down but not sure how
much.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0654#200654
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: True Blue Pietenpol |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
[To my knowledge there never has been a perfect Bernie Piet. ever built, I've seen
many, Some are close, but not a perfect Pietenpol, Bernie always changed something,
how many builders use cardboard for the leading edge ? Allen Rudolf's
Piet was the closest I've seen, and flown. I have a bushel basket full of Piet
hats, Sure must be fooling someone, As you all have noticed no two of my Piets
were ever a true Piet, But I got credit for the changes, most of the time,
at least to my face. I wonder what was said when I wasn't looking ? Most new
Ideas keep the Piet basics
going, keep up the good work guys.
Pieti Lowell
As everyone knows, the only way any airplane can genuinely attain the prestigious
title "Pietenpol Air Camper" is to fastidiously follow the 1932 Flying and
Glider Manual. No variations or modifications are allowed. All others are
fakes, alterations and copies. I myself, have chosen to unswervingly follow these
plans. Except for a few minor areas (for safety sake) and a few other minor
areas (just a small tweek of design to put my own flair on it) and a few
other minor areas (just to modernize it a bit).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047).
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0686#200686
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
I believe that the elevator travel should be 20 degrees up and 20 degrees down.
I intend to incorporate stops into my controls to limit the up and down elevator
deflection. As I recall from a presentation at Broadhead elevator deflection
shall NEVER exceed 30 degrees in either direction.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0732#200732
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles loomis <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Any Australians on this list? |
And if so do you know if any Pietenpols will be at the Coffs Harbour Air Show?
Or if there are any Piets in Northern NSW, or even NSW at all?
Charley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Any Australians on this list? |
Charley,
There were a couple of Piet's in Noosa I believe. There are a few being
built in QLD and WA. I finished mine in 2006. You are welcome to come and
look if you are down in Vic.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Vic
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles
loomis
Sent: Wednesday, 27 August 2008 6:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Australians on this list?
And if so do you know if any Pietenpols will be at the Coffs Harbour Air
Show?
Or if there are any Piets in Northern NSW, or even NSW at all?
Charley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
I( don't know how many are flying the GN-1 design that are on this list.maybe I
can get some answers,the plans call for a separate steering horn for the tailwheel
the way I see it.Mine has a set if extra cables attached to the rudder cables
to pull the tailwheel horns but I also made a set of the horns the plans
called for to be bolted to the bottom of the rudder to go to the tailwheel. What
is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the fuselage
fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short set of cables?
I expect that there are good and bad with either but I would appreciate
some advice from anybody that has tried it.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0918#200918
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steering horn |
> What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the
fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a
short set of cables? <
I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra control
horn on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't want it
but, overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to the rudder bar
would weigh more. Is there a way to attach the steering cables to the
rudder cables about half way back (i.e. just aft or forward of the
pulleys?)
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Steering horn |
I have seen this done poorly on a KR-2 with Nicopress sleeves, if I were to
do this though I would prefer to make a loop around an eye, add the Nicopress
sleeve, run one leg to the rudder and one to the tail wheel. Run a new cable
forward to the rudder pedals. The question I would have is what is the
greatest angle allowable for two cable ends exiting from a Nicopress fitting?
Seems to me there would be a lot of "working" of the fittings here caused by
the tail wheel that would be better absorbed by the "idler bar" inside the
fueselage?
...Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires
we fill out a form you will not hear from us.
Please do not make your spam problem ours.
In a message dated 8/27/2008 10:54:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
TOMS(at)mcpcity.com writes:
> What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the
fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short set
of cables? <
I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra control horn
on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't want it but,
overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to the rudder bar would weigh
more. Is there a way to attach the steering cables to the rudder cables
about half way back (i.e. just aft or forward of the pulleys?)
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Felix the GN-1 I bought has the extra horn per plans. It seems to work
fine. Tom is right there may be more weight aft. There is also more wood as
you have to fill in the corner gusset with spruce to help out with the
extra stress that horn puts on the rudder. This method is more simple
though, and that is good.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
> To:
> Date: 8/27/2008 11:22:13 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: steering horn
>
>
> I( don't know how many are flying the GN-1 design that are on this
list.maybe I can get some answers,the plans call for a separate steering
horn for the tailwheel the way I see it.Mine has a set if extra cables
attached to the rudder cables to pull the tailwheel horns but I also made a
set of the horns the plans called for to be bolted to the bottom of the
rudder to go to the tailwheel. What is the best way to go here-have the
extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the
horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? I expect that there are good
and bad with either but I would appreciate some advice from anybody that
has tried it.Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0918#200918
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
A good friend of mine just dropped this on me. I thought it was funny.- W
hat happens to a Pietenpol that sits too long?
-
-
It gathers piet moss!- BADUM-PA! Thank you! I'll be here all night!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steering horn |
>Seems to me there would be a lot of "working" of the fittings here caused
by the tail wheel that would be better absorbed by the "idler bar" inside
the fueselage?
...Chrissi>
Hmmm. Obviously some room for cogitatin' here. I don't like the idea of
two cables running back from the rudder bar. Maybe a single, larger,
cable running back to a splitter fitting or a loop which in turn attaches
to two separate cables running back to the rudder and steering assembly
through some shimmy damper springs. That tail wheel is going to be
"working" something either way and I really don't like the idea of it
working the rudder directly, even with shimmy damper springs in between.
Any way you look at it though, any cable loops should have grommets or
shackles to keep the rubbing from being cable to cable.
Tom S.
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:STINEMETZE, TOM
TEL;WORK:620-245-2548
ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS(at)MCPCITY.COM
N:STINEMETZE;TOM
TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN.
END:VCARD
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:STINEMETZE, TOM
TEL;WORK:620-245-2548
ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS(at)MCPCITY.COM
N:STINEMETZE;TOM
TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN.
END:VCARD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: steering horn |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
Skip-is your airplane flying now? I would sure like to hear from GN-1 flyers as
to how the plane is doing .Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0999#200999
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol joke |
"You re going straight to hell for that one"! (_Adrian Cronauer_
(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000245/) :Good Morning Vietnam) Robin Williams voice of Pvt
Gomer Pyle USMC, Jim Nabors
In a message dated 8/27/2008 12:54:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net writes:
A good friend of mine just dropped this on me. I thought it was funny. What
happens to a Pietenpol that sits too long?
It gathers piet moss! BADUM-PA! Thank you! I'll be here all night!
========
(mip://04d63948/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List")
========
(mip://04d63948/3D"http://forums.matronics.com")
========
(mip://04d63948/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution")
========
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: steering horn |
My GN-1 is doing just fine since I found out the gap on the plugs was too w
ide.I've had really great flights with her except the other night after wor
k was a bit too cool.I should have worn a heavier coat.It will soon be time
to drain the run in oil and put regular oil into her.It should be interest
ing to see what changes occur if any.Having a wonderful time of it up here
in Ottawa Canada.=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: skellytown
flyer =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday
, August 27, 2008 5:18:54 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn
et>=0A=0ASkip-is your airplane flying now? I would sure like to hear from G
N-1 flyers as to how the plane is doing .Raymond=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this to
pic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0999#
=========================0A
============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: steering horn |
I originally had mine going from- the horn on the wheel to a horn on the
rudder with springs but I figured there was too much pressure on the rudder
so I took it off.To steer I just use rudder and brakes and it works just f
ine.Better braking and turning counter clockwise than clockwise though.I th
ink it may have something to do with the gyro scopic progression from the p
rop.That's my two cents worth.-=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A
From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:17:36 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List:
=0A=0AI( don't know how many are flying the GN-1 design tha
t are on this list.maybe I can get some answers,the plans call for a separa
te steering horn for the tailwheel the way I see it.Mine has a set if extra
cables attached to the rudder cables to pull the tailwheel horns but I als
o made a set of the horns the plans called for to be bolted to the bottom o
f the rudder to go to the tailwheel. What is the best way to go here-have t
he extra cables going through the fuselage fabric all the way back or use t
he horns on the rudder and a short set of cables? I expect that there are g
ood and bad with either but I would appreciate some advice from anybody tha
t has tried it.Raymond=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp
://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0918#200918=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List
======
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "donald lane" <dslane(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) |
Congratulations Jack,
When you get the CFI, I would like to be your student, for the
taildragger endorsement, especially if it would be in your Piet. Is
that legal?
Don Lane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) |
Yep. Transition training is legal in Experimental aircraft. Primary
instruction is not (at least, that's my understanding). That's my primary
purpose in getting the CFI - tailwheel endorsements and transition training.
I might have to add brakes in the front seat of my Piet if I'm going to use
it for transition training.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of donald lane
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips)
Congratulations Jack,
When you get the CFI, I would like to be your student, for the taildragger
endorsement, especially if it would be in your Piet. Is that legal?
Don Lane
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steering horn |
Raymond, Yes the Piet, I mean GN-1 is flying. This past weekend we flew
from WV to Merrys Pymatunning on the OH/PA border. It was 3 hours each way.
Went with a Colt, Chief and Cub. The Piet and Cub fly about the same in
cruise, the Chief a little faster and the Colt went ahead and checked out
the restaurant at the fuel stop. First actual camp out in the aircamper,
great trip.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
> To:
> Date: 8/27/2008 5:23:09 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steering horn
>
>
> Skip-is your airplane flying now? I would sure like to hear from GN-1
flyers as to how the plane is doing .Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0999#200999
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wizzard187(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: steering horn |
Pieter's I have been making taxi test and last night ended in the
government set=aside acres. What weight do you guys on the tail wheel when in
the
cockpit. Also I have 19 in motorcycle wheels with modified cleveland brakes
and they are about like a stick in a soapbox car. When taxing down the run
way it seems to take a long time for my correction to kick in. My springs are
pretty tight but had them loose when i got into the tall (6 ft) grass.
Thanks. Ken Conrad in Iowa with great weather
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips) |
Why not become a Sport-Pilot CFI (CFI-SP) - at least as a start? Don't
even need the commercial license or an instrument rating. The Piet
fits (or at least should fit) the LSA category also.
Only need 150 hours of flight time (with some sub category times) plus
the normal CFI tests and sign-offs. Check out FAR 61.4xx. The ability
to teach tailwheel needs nothing more than the endorsement you already
have and the CFI-SP.
I think this is all accurate, but could be wrong
Cheers
Kirk
On Aug 27, 2008, at 8:26 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
> Yep. Transition training is legal in Experimental aircraft.
> Primary instruction is not (at least, that=92s my understanding).
> That=92s my primary purpose in getting the CFI ' tailwheel
> endorsements and transition training. I might have to add brakes in
> the front seat of my Piet if I=92m going to use it for transition
> training.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of donald lane
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:43 PM
> To: piet list matronics
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Commercial Ticket (Jack Phillips)
>
> Congratulations Jack,
> When you get the CFI, I would like to be your student, for the
> taildragger endorsement, especially if it would be in your Piet. Is
> that legal?
> Don Lane
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Steering horn |
Think about the torque on the rudder spar. On 421GN, I ran the
tailwheel cables all the way from the rudder bar, but joining them
somewhere aft with a nicopress should also work. One problem is that
with a "Y" connection, there will be more side-to-side cable motion than
with strictly fore-and-aft motion.
Gene Hubbard
NX421GN
San Diego
TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> > What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through
> the fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder
> and a short set of cables? <
>
> I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra
> control horn on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't
> want it but, overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to
> the rudder bar would weigh more. Is there a way to attach the
> steering cables to the rudder cables about half way back (i.e. just
> aft or forward of the pulleys?)
>
> Tom Stinemetze
> McPherson, KS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: steering horn |
Ken,
On NX18235 with me in the cockpit (190#) it brings the aircraft weight
to 811#. The weight on the tailwheel is 116#. The mains are 19" spoked
wheels and the axle is positioned 20" aft of the firewall. It is
equipped with a tailskid and no brakes.
Ground handling is generally docile. The most trouble I have is when I
try to taxi in a crosswind or downwind when the wind gets above 12mph.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steering horn
Pieter's I have been making taxi test and last night ended in the
government set=aside acres. What weight do you guys on the tail
wheel when in the cockpit. Also I have 19 in motorcycle wheels with
modified cleveland brakes and they are about like a stick in a soapbox
car. When taxing down the run way it seems to take a long time for my
correction to kick in. My springs are pretty tight but had them loose
when i got into the tall (6 ft) grass. Thanks. Ken Conrad in Iowa
with great weather
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Lowell,
Two years ago at Brodhead I listened to your conversation regarding the
superiority of the GA30U-612 airfoil over BP's airfoil. In Tim Willis'
posting I read about the GA3OU 613.5 airfoil.
If I am understanding the thread of conversation correctly the 612 airfoil
seems to be preferred over the 613.5 for aircraft with 100+ hp. I'm
intending to use a WW Corvair conversion for my Piet.
Who should I contact to get a print, coordinates, and any notes relating to
the GA30U-612 airfoil?
Please confirm my understanding in selecting the 612 airfoil.
Regards,
Allan Macklem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Roman,
Do you have the print for the GA3OU 612 airfoil?\
Allan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight and balance question |
Walt,
Please send me your weight/balance Excel program.
Thanks,
Allan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Allan,
Just a reminder, the Pietenpol list archive is searchable, at:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
Pick Pietenpol from the drop down list, and then type in your search terms.
There are instructions on that page as well. The archive is a good source
for answers to all the questions that have been asked previously, such as
your question about the Riblett print. A search for "Roman & Riblett" gets
you what you are looking for in the first result. Hope that helps,
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Allan Macklem wrote:
>
> Roman,
>
> Do you have the print for the GA3OU 612 airfoil?\
>
> Allan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Allan,
I posted this spreadsheet a while ago=2E
Hope it helps=2E
JohnW
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: awmacklem@cox=2Enet
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics=2Ecom
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig=2E=2E=2Ehow=3F
>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:52:11 -0500
>
>
>>
>>Lowell,
>>
>>Two years ago at Brodhead I listened to your conversation regarding
>the
>>superiority of the GA30U-612 airfoil over BP's airfoil=2E In Tim
>Willis'
>>posting I read about the GA3OU 613=2E5 airfoil=2E
>>
>>If I am understanding the thread of conversation correctly the 612
>airfoil
>>seems to be preferred over the 613=2E5 for aircraft with 100+ hp=2E I'
m
>
>>intending to use a WW Corvair conversion for my Piet=2E
>>
>>Who should I contact to get a print, coordinates, and any notes
>relating to
>>the GA30U-612 airfoil=3F
>>
>>Please confirm my understanding in selecting the 612 airfoil=2E
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Allan Macklem
>>
>>
>>=5F-=======================
===========
>>=5F-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
>>=5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
>>=5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
>>=5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>=5F-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc Davis <marcs_listreading(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
Campers
Are you glueing in the rear seat botom and back=2C or making them removable
for access to the tail cone?
Thanks
Marc
_________________________________________________________________
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be=97learn how to burn a DVD with Win
dows=AE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat install |
I glued
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Davis
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
Campers
Are you glueing in the rear seat botom and back, or making them
removable for access to the tail cone?
Thanks
Marc
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be=97learn how to burn a DVD
with Windows=AE. Make your smash hit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat install |
Marc,
I glued in my rear seat back because I feel that it is an important
structural member. The seat bottom on mine just sits there by itself from gravity.
I
have a couple of pulleys under there that I need to get to. Photo attached.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat install |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Glued the back and hinged the bottom
John
------Original Message------
From: Marc Davis
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Aug 28, 2008 1:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
Campers
Are youglueing in the rear seat botom and back, or making them removable for access
to the tail cone?
Thanks
Marc
----------------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Roman,
Do you have the print for the GA3OU 612 airfoil?\
Allan
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/28/2008 7:39 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Lowell,
Two years ago at Brodhead I listened to your conversation regarding the
superiority of the GA30U-612 airfoil over BP's airfoil. In Tim Willis'
posting I read about the GA3OU 613.5 airfoil.
If I am understanding the thread of conversation correctly the 612 airfoil
seems to be preferred over the 613.5 for aircraft with 100+ hp. I'm
intending to use a WW Corvair conversion for my Piet.
Who should I contact to get a print, coordinates, and any notes relating to
the GA30U-612 airfoil?
Please confirm my understanding in selecting the 612 airfoil.
Regards,
Allan Macklem
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
8/28/2008 7:39 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Dan H. is right about the seat back being a structural (bulkhead) member
but in my
case I simply beefed up the perimeter of the seat back and seat
framework to do that job yet
made the back and seat removable.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From print to jig...how? |
Yes I do.
just send a check for $10.00 to:
Roman Bukolt
6505 Urich terrace
Madison, Wi. 53719
On Aug 27, 2008, at 11:37 PM, Allan Macklem wrote:
> >
>
> Roman,
>
> Do you have the print for the GA3OU 612 airfoil?\
>
> Allan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
The rear seat bottom on 41CC is removable (lifts out) and the seat back is hinged.
It's essential that you have access to the elevator bellcrank behind the
seat, if nothing else.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Raymond; here is a pic of the tailwheel setup on Ernie Moreno's airplane: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/tailwh01.jpg
And another one: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Pb030025.jpg
Doesn't seem that it would add any appreciable amount of weight but then again,
this airplane is very tail-heavy.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat install |
On mine, in order to access the elevator bellcrank etc. I have installed a
removable aluminum panel on the underside of the airplane held on with machine
screws and T nuts. I can actually get my whole upper torso in there with
shoulders.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
That's always the best way. I find it very painful and inconvenient to
remove my shoulders from my upper torso.
(just in case it's not obvious, that's a weak attempt at a humorous comment)
_____
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
I can actually get my whole upper torso in there with shoulders.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
That's what I did as well. I glued my seatback in place and the rear
seat bottom is removable with screws. I've never removed it, but I go
into my access panel at every annual to lubricate the bellcrank, inspect
the connections and the cables and to change the batteries on the ELT.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
On mine, in order to access the elevator bellcrank etc. I have installed
a removable aluminum panel on the underside of the airplane held on with
machine screws and T nuts. I can actually get my whole upper torso in
there with shoulders.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>
=2E
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This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
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Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the dimensiona
l difference? Jonathan
_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
Guys,
What have people done to fabricate an access panel to get at the horizontal
stab hold-down nuts? Pictures would be helpful. Thanks.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Nothing. I installed nutplates on the underside of the top longerons
for the bolts. As I recall they were some LOOOONG bolts. AN3-27 as I
recall
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:35 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts
Guys,
What have people done to fabricate an access panel to get at the
horizontal stab hold-down nuts? Pictures would be helpful. Thanks.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here <http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>
=2E
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rear seat install |
Holy smokes, Dan-! You've either got a pretty generous sized access hole or you're
a small guy! 41CC has a removable access panel on the underside of the tail
but that's no good for preflight inspection. Swinging my seat back forward
during preflight gives me a quick view of everything in the tailcone with no
fuss.
I should qualify my remarks about the hinged seat back by saying that the hinged
part is actually cut out of the complete seat back bulkhead. The fixed part
does still provide some stiffness and diaphragm strength to the bulkhead and
I believe the framing is beefed up a bit as well. Regardless, the airplane seems
to be quite sound structurally with it set up this way.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
Thanks Jack,
Of course the nut plates make the most sense. Why didn't I think of that?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Steering horn |
Bill Rewey used brass split-bolt connectors to attach his tailwheel steering
cables to the rudder cables. Pretty basic, and his Piet has been flying for
years (so it definitely works). If you look at the various pics of his Piet
at:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_3.htm
...you can get a rough idea of where the cables exit the bottom of the
fuselage. There are no good shots of the connection, although you can just
barely see one of the connectors in this shot:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/DSCF0024.JPG
I believe if you look below where the headset cable meets the seat cushion
you can just make out one of the connectors, to give an idea of where the
cables attach in the cockpit. For an SASE and $2.00 you can get a page with
drawings and information about exactly how he did it. This info also comes
as part of his entire info packet for $20, which I think was definitely a
good investment. His mailing address is:
Bill Rewey
3339 Mound View Rd
Verona, WI 53593
Hope that helps,
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:15 PM, Gene Hubbard wrote:
> Think about the torque on the rudder spar. On 421GN, I ran the tailwheel
> cables all the way from the rudder bar, but joining them somewhere aft with
> a nicopress should also work. One problem is that with a "Y" connection,
> there will be more side-to-side cable motion than with strictly fore-and-aft
> motion.
>
> Gene Hubbard
> NX421GN
> San Diego
>
> TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
>
> > What is the best way to go here-have the extra cables going through the
> fuselage fabric all the way back or use the horns on the rudder and a short
> set of cables? <
>
> *I am ready to ask that same question. It appears that an extra control
> horn on the rudder would add extra weight just where you don't want it but,
> overall, an extra set of cables running all the way to the rudder bar would
> weigh more. Is there a way to attach the steering cables to the rudder
> cables about half way back (i.e. just aft or forward of the pulleys?)*
> **
> *Tom Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
The problem is, what kind of nut plates and how? At least on my
airplane, the bolts come through the top longeron close to a diagonal
and between the plywood gussets that attach the diagonal. I wish I
could use those "wood nuts" for lack of a better term, but they have to
be drilled oversized for the depth of the nut and I cannot get to the
bottom to drill up, and if I drill from the top, the hole will be
oversized. So, I get back to, what kind of nutplates and how are they
attached?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com<mailto:HelsperSew(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down
nuts
Thanks Jack,
Of course the nut plates make the most sense. Why didn't I think of
that?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here<http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Gene, mine is a long fuselage and that might make a difference. I don't
have any good pictures of the initial assembly, but after my forced
landing I had to go in and repair the right lower longeron and I took
this picture of the repair. By chance, it shows the nutplates under the
top longerons. As I recall, I drilled the # 10 hole straight down
through the stabilizer and the longeron, then installed the nutplate
with epoxy and small brass screws to the bottom surface of the top
longerons. It works well and sure is easier than trying to find the # 7
wood screws called out in the plans.
One nice thing about using nutplates - it makes it easy to do rigging
changes if the incidence of the tail needs to be changed. You can just
remove the bolts and insert or remove washers as required to set the
incidence where it needs to be.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts
The problem is, what kind of nut plates and how? At least on my
airplane, the bolts come through the top longeron close to a diagonal
and between the plywood gussets that attach the diagonal. I wish I
could use those "wood nuts" for lack of a better term, but they have to
be drilled oversized for the depth of the nut and I cannot get to the
bottom to drill up, and if I drill from the top, the hole will be
oversized. So, I get back to, what kind of nutplates and how are they
attached?
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab
hold-down nuts
Thanks Jack,
Of course the nut plates make the most sense. Why didn't I think
of that?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_____
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here
<http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> .
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
Thanks Jack!
Mine is a short fuselage, and it is different back there (although I did
not know it). Imagine your nutplate 3-4" further forward so that it is
behind the gussets. I guess there is room for me to glue/screw that
type of nutplate in. Like I said, if I had the access you do, I would
have used the wood nut type that pushes into the hole. I still may do
that and drill the hole oversized from the top, push the nut in the
bottom, and put a bushing in the rest of the way.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rivets on gear |
Guys:
For what it is worth, I just installed rivets on my landing gear
(Jenny-style) as called for in the plans, rather than bolts. The 3/16"
steel rivets were cheap, very easy to install, and worked great! Now I
have no nuts/cotter pins to get in the way of the cable fitting,
spreader bar ends, or shock cords.
Just thought I would throw it out. If anyone else is interested, drop
me a note. I might go ahead and use rivets on the tail fittings as
well, I am really impressed with how it worked out.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HelsperSew(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rivets on gear |
Gene,
What type of rivets are these, and where did you get them?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> |
The two sides are covered with poly-fiber or similar fabric system. This seems
like a logical place for an inspection ring and cover. Be sure to paint the
inspection hole covers when you paint the fabric so that it matches the fabric.
You can then access the nuts through the inspection holes for assembly of the
horizontal stabilizer, install the covers, and then tell everyone at Broadhead
what the inspection holes are for....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1221#201221
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Gene, are you putting the bolt through the leading edge of the stab or
the spar? I put mine through the spar because there wasn't room to get
a nutplate in through the leading edge.
Is there room to backdrill for a T-Nut using a 90 degree angle drill?
If not, your idea of drilling the hole oversize for the T-Nut and then
bushing it is probably the best way to go. You could actually glue a
dowel in the oversized hole and then drill it out to accept the bolt and
lose no strength at all.
Jack Phillips, PE
Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development
Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services
Creedmoor, NC
(919) 528-5212
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rambo
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts
Thanks Jack!
Mine is a short fuselage, and it is different back there (although I did
not know it). Imagine your nutplate 3-4" further forward so that it is
behind the gussets. I guess there is room for me to glue/screw that
type of nutplate in. Like I said, if I had the access you do, I would
have used the wood nut type that pushes into the hole. I still may do
that and drill the hole oversized from the top, push the nut in the
bottom, and put a bushing in the rest of the way.
Gene
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd Smith" <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
Just something to think about with the wood nuts (teenuts) like you're
referring to. There is no locking feature built into them, so some
alternative method of bolt saftying should be considered.
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> Thanks Jack!
>
> Mine is a short fuselage, and it is different back there (although I did
> not know it). Imagine your nutplate 3-4" further forward so that it is
> behind the gussets. I guess there is room for me to glue/screw that type of
> nutplate in. Like I said, if I had the access you do, I would have used the
> wood nut type that pushes into the hole. I still may do that and drill the
> hole oversized from the top, push the nut in the bottom, and put a bushing
> in the rest of the way.
>
> Gene
>
> *
>
> =
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Good point, Lloyd. That was what drove me to use the nutplates.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd
Smith
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts
Just something to think about with the wood nuts (teenuts) like you're
referring to. There is no locking feature built into them, so some
alternative method of bolt saftying should be considered.
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
Thanks Jack!
Mine is a short fuselage, and it is different back there (although I did
not know it). Imagine your nutplate 3-4" further forward so that it is
behind the gussets. I guess there is room for me to glue/screw that
type of nutplate in. Like I said, if I had the access you do, I would
have used the wood nut type that pushes into the hole. I still may do
that and drill the hole oversized from the top, push the nut in the
bottom, and put a bushing in the rest of the way.
Gene
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orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | locking tee nuts |
Shows you what a country goober I am. I just took the tee nuts and gave the ends
a slight crimp in the vise to make them semi-self-locking. A dab of Locktite
(not the permanent stuff) might also do.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
Jack:
No, I am drilling through the spar, it comes out where I say. I am,
however, putting in the screws through the leading edge, I can see the
need for it and the spacer block below the leading edge. I will
probably use a T-nut as described. I am not sure a wooden dowel will
add anything after drilling it back out as opposed to a bushing. Then
again, I might just use a nut! (with a normal sized inspection ring on
one side to get my hand in)
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
if I use T-nuts, I will just safety the heads together
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rivets on gear |
Dan:
I just googled "steel rivets" and found several suppliers. I bought a 1
pound box for $5.35 + shipping from these guys:
www.rjleahy.com/Store/rivets/trvr.htm<http://www.rjleahy.com/Store/rivets
/trvr.htm>
I did have to buy a special rivet set for the old-fashioned round head
rivet, but from another supplier because it was cheaper (still cost far
more than the rivets) I would loan the set to anyone who needs it,
though.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Access cover for rear stabilizer |
Here is what I have carved out for my access to rear hinges. The cut-out ov
er laps and I think look pretty good.
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat install |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
Dan/anyone-I like that seat with the insert.is there any place that sells them
at an affordable price? I have been looking for something that would look right
in a Piet and that is it for sure.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1317#201317
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc Davis <marcs_listreading(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
Thanks for all the input on how your doing your rear seats.
Has anyone made the turtle deck removable to allow access to the tail cone?
Seems easy enough.
Marc
_________________________________________________________________
See what people are saying about Windows Live. Check out featured posts.
http://www.windowslive.com/connect?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_connect2_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear seat install |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Sounds easy enough actually building the turtle deck was one of the more difficult
and time consuming assemblies to build. Making it removable would add another
dimension of difficult.
This of course is both the experience and opinion of a non experienced and Annetta
fledgling wood worker. I am certain you will get differing opinions from those
better and more talented than I.
John
------Original Message------
From: Marc Davis
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Aug 29, 2008 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
Thanks for all the input on how your doing your rear seats.
Has anyone made the turtle deck removable to allow access to the tail cone?
Seems easy enough.
Marc
----------------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
RHJ5IHdhbGwgc2NyZXdzIGFuZCBEZWNrIHNjcmV3cyBtdWNoIG1hbGlnbmVkIGZhc3RlbmVycyBJ
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aG9sZC1kb3duIG51dHMNCg0KIA0KDQogDQoNCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rear seat install |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
I guess I don't understand what a removable turtledeck would buy you. The elevator
cables exit the fuselage pretty far up and once you get past the bellcrank
there is really nothing to inspect inside the tailcone that a removable turtledeck
would provide access for. I'm all for access where you need it but this
seems like overkill to me. It would certainly add weight pretty far aft and
that will aggravate the already tail hevy tendencies of the Pietenpol.
If you go by Bill Stout's rule "Simplicate and add Lightness" this change would
violate both of those. It is not simple and it adds weight.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
Sounds easy enough actually building the turtle deck was one of the more difficult
and time consuming assemblies to build. Making it removable would add another
dimension of difficult.
This of course is both the experience and opinion of a non experienced and Annetta
fledgling wood worker. I am certain you will get differing opinions from those
better and more talented than I.
John
------Original Message------
From: Marc Davis
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Aug 29, 2008 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Rear seat install
Thanks for all the input on how your doing your rear seats.
Has anyone made the turtle deck removable to allow access to the tail cone?
Seems easy enough.
Marc
----------------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Gary,
Time for you to go see your ophthalmologist. My sketch depicts an AN
bolt which I did use for that application
with a fender washer (non AN) underneath it. They've worked fine for
10 years and 400 hours of flying time.
Mike C.
Mike,
I was glad to see that you did use drywall screws there....
Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Oppss...sorry Gary ! I shouldn't be giving medical advice anyway for
not only do I not play one on tv, I'm not one in real life
either.....nor am I an LPN, PA, or wheelchair pusher in the ER.
What's funny on the horizontal stabilizer is that once you tighten the
whole rigging it would seem that those hold down
points don't serve too much of a purpose but it sure is nice to have
them there.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
That's what distinguishes all ingeniously practical solutions
Oscar. No goobering that I can see.
Too late for me, I've used drilled head bolts myself.
My bolts go through the cross piece which I placed right
under the leading edge. There is a ply filler on both top and
bottom of the thin part behind the actual "leading edge". The
T nuts are just inside the ends of the cross piece so drilling
from the bottom was no problem with a long extension on
the bit.
There is, on top of that area, a 1/8" gusset from 4" ahead of
the LE to 4" behind so it's plenty strong enough to hold the
stab down. Especialy when you consider the original done
with #7 screws. Done this way means no compromise of
strength in the longerons. I don't like the idea of 3/16"
holes through them. By the way, if you want to screw it
just use #8. Don't sweat it, the diameter difference is
negligable.
Unfortunately I never thought to document this area in
pictures. I'll do that next week after I get back from
camping with the kids. Well, they're kids to me. :-)
I didn't mess with the seat back. It's firmly glued in.
I have made access through the bottom as Mr C did.
Both seat bottoms are screwed down as there is stuff
under them.
I am in the process of cabling the tailwheel right
through to the bar. It's pretty close to a straight run.
It will require only a slight bend through a fairlead.
My rudder cables are pretty much straight from the
bar, through the seat back by my hips to a fairlead just
above the elevator bellcrank then on to the rudder. This
fairlead is there only to clear this cable from the top
elevator one. Now you know why I'm not going to try
to splice the tailwheel cable to it. Could get messy.
Besides, what's the diff in weight between a few feet
of cable and all that splicing stuff?
Clif, off to camp out in the rain.
Hey, this IS the wet coast!
>
>
> Shows you what a country goober I am. I just took the tee nuts and
gave
> the ends a slight crimp in the vise to make them semi-self-locking. A
dab
> of Locktite (not the permanent stuff) might also do.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
Just to add,,,
My tailwheel cables are Nico'ed to the rudder cables somewhere under the
seat.
They run back to 2 pulleys ahead of the tail wheel, and then down to the
the tailwheel arm.
The control is fine and the plane will turn around on a standard runway
, without falling onto the grass.
Very pleased with it
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Clif Dawson
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T nuts
That's what distinguishes all ingeniously practical solutions
Oscar. No goobering that I can see.
Too late for me, I've used drilled head bolts myself.
My bolts go through the cross piece which I placed right
under the leading edge. There is a ply filler on both top and
bottom of the thin part behind the actual "leading edge". The
T nuts are just inside the ends of the cross piece so drilling
from the bottom was no problem with a long extension on
the bit.
There is, on top of that area, a 1/8" gusset from 4" ahead of
the LE to 4" behind so it's plenty strong enough to hold the
stab down. Especialy when you consider the original done
with #7 screws. Done this way means no compromise of
strength in the longerons. I don't like the idea of 3/16"
holes through them. By the way, if you want to screw it
just use #8. Don't sweat it, the diameter difference is
negligable.
Unfortunately I never thought to document this area in
pictures. I'll do that next week after I get back from
camping with the kids. Well, they're kids to me. :-)
I didn't mess with the seat back. It's firmly glued in.
I have made access through the bottom as Mr C did.
Both seat bottoms are screwed down as there is stuff
under them.
I am in the process of cabling the tailwheel right
through to the bar. It's pretty close to a straight run.
It will require only a slight bend through a fairlead.
My rudder cables are pretty much straight from the
bar, through the seat back by my hips to a fairlead just
above the elevator bellcrank then on to the rudder. This
fairlead is there only to clear this cable from the top
elevator one. Now you know why I'm not going to try
to splice the tailwheel cable to it. Could get messy.
Besides, what's the diff in weight between a few feet
of cable and all that splicing stuff?
Clif, off to camp out in the rain.
Hey, this IS the wet coast!
>
>
> Shows you what a country goober I am. I just took the tee nuts and
gave
> the ends a slight crimp in the vise to make them semi-self-locking.
A dab
> of Locktite (not the permanent stuff) might also do.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down nuts |
Mike:
What your drawing does not address is that the hole has to be oversize
to allow the T-nut to fit. How did you address this? Leave the hole
oversize? Bushing? other????
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]<mailto:Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Access panel for horiz stab hold-down
nuts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Front cockpit cover |
Group. I'm starting to think about getting ready for winter flying and
I'm considering covering the front cockpit. Covering the front cockpit
will cut down on the cool air coming up my pant legs plus will make it
into a good cargo area. Wondering if anyone on the list has come up
with a good looking and secure covering. I don't wish to reinvent the
wheel and will steal a good idea in a heart beat. All ideas will be
greatly appreciated, even if ignored.
Gene
N502R
(Yes Oscar, some of us do need to wear more than a bathing suit while
flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion(at)bellsouth.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Front cockpit cover |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi Gene
When I have the Ford for power I use the heat from the radiator to heat the legs,
When an air cooled engine is up front you should use a snapped cover with numerous
snaps on the leading edge of the cover, or you will lose it very quickly.I
have done much flying in below zero weather with this combination.
Pieti Lowell
(Yes Oscar, some of us do need to wear more than a bathing suit while flying)
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1554#201554
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Front cockpit cover |
Gene,
Have a chat with your local boat canvas & upholstry shop, they have fittings
like are used for sports car tonneau covers, they are available in brass or
chrome in three flavors, one has a 90 deg turn clasp, one is a pin with a
detent and one is you heavy duty snap button. All three will work well with
common cover materials.
Regards, Chrissi
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
www.CozyGirrrl.com
Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo
Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details
==============================
If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires
we fill out a form you will not hear from us.
Please do not make your spam problem ours.
In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:54:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
zharvey(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Group. I'm starting to think about getting ready for winter flying and I'm
considering covering the front cockpit. Covering the front cockpit will cut
down on the cool air coming up my pant legs plus will make it into a good
cargo area. Wondering if anyone on the list has come up with a good looking and
secure covering. I don't wish to reinvent the wheel and will steal a good
idea in a heart beat. All ideas will be greatly appreciated, even if ignored.
Gene
N502R
(Yes Oscar, some of us do need to wear more than a bathing suit while flying)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-- Front Cockpit cover |
Chuck Gantzer did an aluminum cover on his front cockpit for his large cross-country
trip to the east coast and circling way back to KS. He would likely share
drawings, but I know he has been inactive, instead busy building his Tailwind.
(FYI, he also removed his front windshield for extended cross-country, but
took it with him in the front pit.)
My winter flying accommodation will be long pants. Of course, we don't have winter--
only summer and 3 months of "other."
Tim in central TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
I am getting my Piet rigged up and want to use the larger 1/4" thread turnbuckles
in the wing strut cross brace cables.I know it may be overkill but I am going
to use 1/8" cables and cannot see using the light ones there since it will
be a somewhat redundant wing load path with the aluminum struts.I have 3 short
and one long 1/4" barrel and 4 short left hand cable eyes for them. I would like
to buy 4 short 1?4" thread right hand forkends and maybe a short barrel if
I could find it.anybody got some they would sell me? I'd appreciate a e-mail
off-line or whatever.Raymond.Skellytown,TX.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1615#201615
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Raymond;
I was out at the hangar this afternoon to work on a few things and I put the calipers
on the turnbuckles on 41CC. All the strut brace wires are 1/8" and the
turnbuckle ends are 1/8". So are the ones on the cabane braces, the aileron
cables, elevator cables, and most everything else on the airplane except the tail
brace wires, which are one size smaller (smaller cable for the braces).
Being worried that all of those turnbuckles might be a danger to me, and despite
the 90 degree x-wind at San Geronimo this afternoon, I launched the airplane
off the grass and flew it. The takeoff was exquisitely smooth and I came back
around, set up a circling approach with power on and dropped down to the grass
at redline and full throttle. Nothing fell off the airplane.
Went over to Medina Lake where a great many people were enjoying their boats, skis,
jet-skis, and probably quite a few beers. Continued on to Medina River Ranch,
a grass strip, and made a high-speed pass at redline (95 MPH on this airplane).
Nothing came apart again. It was summertime bumpy, nothing to really
stress the airplane, but it was close to max performance for my airplane.
Returned to my home field and passed over an aerial applicator who was laying down
bug juice perpendicular to the prevailing breeze, which struck me as odd but
I guess he had a job to do and couldn't wait for it to get calm. Landed on
the grass and taxied in, wiped off the oil from here and there, and put the airplane
away with about 0.7 hours of perfect Piet Labor Day flying. This is what
Pietenpoling is all about.
I think 1/4" turnbuckles may be overkill but it's your airplane.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
Mr. You sure have a sweet way of spinning a yarn.
got to love that.
Kinky Friedman aint got nuthing on ya!!
:-)
Michael in Maine
Who got 2 hrs of Bonanza B36TC time in the clouds today, loads of bells and
whistles and dials lights undecipherable menus and flight directors and
techy stuff with coupled approaches and sharp barking controllers from the
Boston class B upside-down wedding cake all at 18 gph. Thank god I did not
have to pay for it either. I did wear my Pientenpol hat though.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 6:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
>
>
> Raymond;
>
> I was out at the hangar this afternoon to work on a few things and I put
the calipers on the turnbuckles on 41CC. All the strut brace wires are 1/8"
and the turnbuckle ends are 1/8". So are the ones on the cabane braces, the
aileron cables, elevator cables, and most everything else on the airplane
except the tail brace wires, which are one size smaller (smaller cable for
the braces).
>
> Being worried that all of those turnbuckles might be a danger to me, and
despite the 90 degree x-wind at San Geronimo this afternoon, I launched the
airplane off the grass and flew it. The takeoff was exquisitely smooth and
I came back around, set up a circling approach with power on and dropped
down to the grass at redline and full throttle. Nothing fell off the
airplane.
>
> Went over to Medina Lake where a great many people were enjoying their
boats, skis, jet-skis, and probably quite a few beers. Continued on to
Medina River Ranch, a grass strip, and made a high-speed pass at redline (95
MPH on this airplane). Nothing came apart again. It was summertime bumpy,
nothing to really stress the airplane, but it was close to max performance
for my airplane.
>
> Returned to my home field and passed over an aerial applicator who was
laying down bug juice perpendicular to the prevailing breeze, which struck
me as odd but I guess he had a job to do and couldn't wait for it to get
calm. Landed on the grass and taxied in, wiped off the oil from here and
there, and put the airplane away with about 0.7 hours of perfect Piet Labor
Day flying. This is what Pietenpoling is all about.
>
> I think 1/4" turnbuckles may be overkill but it's your airplane.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Jonathan
When a post like yous goes unanswered for a couple of days, it's not
that you are being ignored. It is a collective, "I don't know and don't
feel qualified to comment".
I do know that an A-65 mounts differently than an O-200, but I have no
further info on that. I also don't know about a C-90.
You need to talk with an A&I who works with those models.
Good luck
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the
dimensional difference? Jonathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with
Windows=AE. Game with Windows
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| From: | airlion(at)bellsouth.net |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Sounds perfect
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Aug 30, 2008 7:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Raymond;
I was out at the hangar this afternoon to work on a few things and I put the calipers
on the turnbuckles on 41CC. All the strut brace wires are 1/8" and the
turnbuckle ends are 1/8". So are the ones on the cabane braces, the aileron
cables, elevator cables, and most everything else on the airplane except the tail
brace wires, which are one size smaller (smaller cable for the braces).
Being worried that all of those turnbuckles might be a danger to me, and despite
the 90 degree x-wind at San Geronimo this afternoon, I launched the airplane
off the grass and flew it. The takeoff was exquisitely smooth and I came back
around, set up a circling approach with power on and dropped down to the grass
at redline and full throttle. Nothing fell off the airplane.
Went over to Medina Lake where a great many people were enjoying their boats, skis,
jet-skis, and probably quite a few beers. Continued on to Medina River Ranch,
a grass strip, and made a high-speed pass at redline (95 MPH on this airplane).
Nothing came apart again. It was summertime bumpy, nothing to really
stress the airplane, but it was close to max performance for my airplane.
Returned to my home field and passed over an aerial applicator who was laying down
bug juice perpendicular to the prevailing breeze, which struck me as odd but
I guess he had a job to do and couldn't wait for it to get calm. Landed on
the grass and taxied in, wiped off the oil from here and there, and put the airplane
away with about 0.7 hours of perfect Piet Labor Day flying. This is what
Pietenpoling is all about.
I think 1/4" turnbuckles may be overkill but it's your airplane.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles loomis <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Minimum changes from original plans? |
What are the minimum changes recomended for safety from the original plans?
I am building the steel fuselage, mild steel, Model A engine, Aircraft grade Hoop
pine, and marine plywood, and original Jenny style landing gear, and three
piece wing. The only changes I could think of was a stearable tail wheel, and
4-point harnesses, besides some minor engine changes, such as Aluminium head,
different carby, and inscerts instead of babbits.
Charley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Jonathan,
This information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/
Another influential homebuilt, and a very informative website. He says the
engine info came from Harry Fenton, who was/is an A&P who posted to their
mailing list.
----------------------------------
Motor Mount Adaptability
Question:
I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine which means hand-propping
. The external looks prettygood (in the picture) and should be
getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other questions soon. I do
like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to know if the motor mount
for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to work towards the engine
with a starter and more HP if possible.
Answer:
The motor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical
rubber bushings are used. As such, the overall dimensions from the engine
mount lugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The
C-90-12, -14, 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set
further forward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the
A-65 mount but require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the
same location as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a
low-hassle installation.
That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give you an
idea.
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Jonathan Ragle wrote:
>
> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the
dimensional difference?
>
>
> Jonathan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owen5819(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
Among other interesting comments, Charles Loomis writes:
> I am building the steel fuselage, mild steel, ...
Nice to read this! You are the only other builder I've run into who is using mild
steel. In my case, it's because I enjoy welding and want the practice. It hurts
a bit, because I know in my heart that real Piets are made of wood. Then
again, at this point structural ERW is probably cheaper than wood, and no doubt
Mr. Pietenpol would approve of that. It's still nice to have validation.
I am strongly thinking of making mine a single-piece wing, just to save weight.
Has anyone done that? Anyone have any thoughts about it?
Finally, much as I hate to admit it, mere steel is probably "good enough," but
one day probably 20 years ago at Old Rhinebeck I got into conversation with a
fellow who was building a Piet. It was his second. He had managed to break his
first one by stalling it at 300 feet, freezing at the controls, and going in
straight down under full power. He had picked himself up from an enormous pile
of splinters, an engine-shaped bruise on his chest, and decided that the next
one would also be wood. Can't say I blame him.
Best of luck with your project. And quick progress, which will make your plane
a lot different from mine.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
There is still nothing in the body of airlion(at)bellsouth.net emails.Just in case
nobody has told you.
----- Original Message ----
From: "airlion(at)bellsouth.net" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 9:43:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WHICH RIBLETT? |
There are sure no rules on which Riblett to use.
What I was attempting to state regarding the Riblett 613.5 was in an answer to
a question
from a particular builder related to ther better Riblett for STOL performance.
The 613.5 offers
more lift and drag than the Riblett 612. The 613.5 is better for STOL. However,
your
choice of airfoil between the two depends on what you want. If you want a faster
cruise,
the 612 is better than the 613.5. If you need more lift, the 613.5 is better thatn
the 612.
Thus to me it seemed that if you had a Model A or Continental A-65, you would want
to
enhance the "meadow-hopping" capability of the Piet. If you had 100 hp or more,
then you
would likely have enough power and speed to have a decent climb with the Riblett
612,
allowing short takeoffs and good climbs, clearing 50 and 100 foot trees, steeples,
etc., and
also get a higher cruising speed, as you overcome more drag with power. Thus the
612
might be better in higher hp apps on Piets.
But there is no rule, and if you wanted more climb and shorter takeoffs and had
100 hp
or more on the plane, you still could mount the Riblett 613.5. Moreover, a builder
could
likely chop some wingspan off a 613.5 wing and have very similar TOTAL lift and
drag to a
full-spanned 612. BTW, Lowell Frank cut two feet off total wingspan with his 612,
as I recall.
Lastly, the pitching moments could vary a lot, as others have commented. The 613.5
might
have moments more like the Piet. I think Mr. Riblett stated that at one time.
We also had some discussions about which Riblett on a 601 or a KR-2, and whether
with light
hp, low weight, and a good airfoil, the LSA rules for weight, top speeds and landing
stalls
without flaps could be met. Off topic for Piets.
John W., thanks for the spreadsheets.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
>Sent: Aug 28, 2008 12:40 AM
>To: awmacklem(at)cox.net, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how?
>
>Allan,
>
>I posted this spreadsheet a while ago.
>Hope it helps.
>
>JohnW
>
>>---- Original Message ----
>>From: awmacklem(at)cox.net
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: From print to jig...how?
>>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:52:11 -0500
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Lowell,
>>>
>>>Two years ago at Brodhead I listened to your conversation regarding
>>the superiority of the GA30U-612 airfoil over BP's airfoil. In Tim
>>Willis' posting I read about the GA3OU 613.5 airfoil.
>>>
>>>If I am understanding the thread of conversation correctly the 612
>>airfoil seems to be preferred over the 613.5 for aircraft with 100+ hp. I'm
>>>intending to use a WW Corvair conversion for my Piet.
>>>
>>>Who should I contact to get a print, coordinates, and any notes
>>relating to the GA30U-612 airfoil?
>>>
>>>Please confirm my understanding in selecting the 612 airfoil.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Allan Macklem
>>>
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 01:49:50 -0500From: rmueller23(at)gmail.comTo: pieten
pol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping . The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan
_________________________________________________________________
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how.
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_
yahoo_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Sounds like good advice. Hand proping isn't all that bad, and not
having an electrical system means you don't need a transponder.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
1955 Baby Ace with Cont A-75
Pietenpol getting ready to cover (A-65)
Jonathan Ragle wrote:
> Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said
> "Why turn an $8000 airplane into an $18,000 airplane?". I think I'm
> going to buy an exercise bike instead. :)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:49:50 -0500
> From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
>
> Jonathan,
>
> This information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page:
> http://www.bowersflybaby.com/
> Another influential homebuilt, and a very informative website. He says
> the engine info came from Harry Fenton, who was/is an A&P who posted
> to their mailing list.
> ----------------------------------
> Motor Mount Adaptability
>
> Question:
> I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine which means hand-propping
> . The external looks prettygood (in the picture) and should be
> getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other questions
> soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to know if
> the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to
> work towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.
>
> Answer:
> The motor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that
> conical rubber bushings are used. As such, the overall dimensions
> from the engine mount lugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft
> remain the same. The C-90-12, -14, 16 and O-200 have different mounts
> and the lugs are set further forward on the engine case. These
> engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount but require about a 2" spacer
> to position the prop flange in the same location as the A-65. the
> C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle installation.
>
> That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give you
> an idea.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Jonathan Ragle > wrote:
> >
> > Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the
> dimensional difference?
> >
> >
> >
> > Jonathan
> *
>
> st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
> <http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it
anymore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said
"Why turn an $8000 airplane into an $18,000 airplane?". I think I'm
going to buy an exercise bike instead. :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:49:50 -0500
From: rmueller23(at)gmail.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan,
This information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/
Another influential homebuilt, and a very informative website. He says
the engine info came from Harry Fenton, who was/is an A&P who posted to
their mailing list.
----------------------------------
Motor Mount Adaptability
Question:
I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine which means hand-propping
. The external looks prettygood (in the picture) and should be
getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other questions soon.
I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to know if the
motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to work
towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.
Answer:
The motor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that
conical rubber bushings are used. As such, the overall dimensions from
the engine mount lugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the
same. The C-90-12, -14, 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs
are set further forward on the engine case. These engines can be
mounted on the A-65 mount but require about a 2" spacer to position the
prop flange in the same location as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your
best choice for a low-hassle installation.
That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give you
an idea.
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Jonathan Ragle
wrote:
>
> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the
dimensional difference?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
8/29/2008 7:07 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
In response to question:
one-piece wing here - spar splice underway as we speak. Also doing
minimal changes from plans. Short fuselage, wire wheels, no brakes,
wood "Jenny-style" gear, tail skid, Model A, etc . . .
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
It's all good my friend. I know that if someone knows the answer they will
post up.
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.netTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: P
ietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sat=2C 30 Aug 2008 20:09:28 -0500
Jonathan
When a post like yous goes unanswered for a couple of days=2C it's not that
you are being ignored. It is a collective=2C "I don't know and don't feel
qualified to comment".
I do know that an A-65 mounts differently than an O-200=2C but I have no fu
rther info on that. I also don't know about a C-90.
You need to talk with an A&I who works with those models.
Good luck
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Thursday=2C August 28=2C 2008 8:33 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone know roughly the dimensiona
l difference? Jonathan
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE. Game with Windows
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
Get ideas on sharing photos from people like you. Find new ways to share.
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/photogallery/posts?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_P
hoto_Gallery_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles loomis <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Minimum changes from original plans? |
I was thinking about using 21" Alloy Motorcycle Wheels, making a set of wide hubs,
using custom made spokes, and mounting small hydrolic disk brakes from a thumpster
dirtbike.
--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Gene Rambo wrote:
> From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum changes from original plans?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 8:38 PM
> In response to question:
>
> one-piece wing here - spar splice underway as we speak.
> Also doing minimal changes from plans. Short fuselage, wire
> wheels, no brakes, wood "Jenny-style" gear, tail
> skid, Model A, etc . . .
>
> Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey(at)bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 01:49:50 -0500From: rmueller23(at)gmail.comTo: pieten
pol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping . The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
8/29/2008 7:07 AM
_________________________________________________________________
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be=97learn how to burn a DVD with Win
dows=AE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Sm9uDQoNClNvbWUgaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgcG9zdHMgSSBhbSBidWlsZGluZyBhIHdpZGUgYm9keSBQ
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DQoNCg0KSGFuZCBwcm9wcGluZyBpcyBubyBiaWcgZGVhbC4gIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgZ29pbmcgdG8g
d2VhciBhIGxlYXRoZXIgaGVsbWV0IGFuZCBnb2dnbGVzIGl0IGlzIGFsbW9zdCByZXF1aXJlZCBm
b3IgYXV0aGVudGljaXR5IHB1cnBvc2VzLiAgSSdtIGp1c3Qgd2FudGluZyBhIG1vcmUgcmVhbGlz
dGljIDIgc2VhdCBhaXJjcmFmdCBhdCBzb21lIHBvaW50LCBidXQgZm9yIG5vdyBJJ20gZ29pbmcg
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
If what your really want is to FLY, why not buy a complete flying
airplane. I bought my Baby Ace for a lot cheaper than I'll be able to
build my Piet. Just a thought....
Ben
Jonathan Ragle wrote:
> Who knows, I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits
> are cheap due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just
> wanting to build or modify something, but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Funny you mention the O-235=2C I had been considering it as an option aswel
l if one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet
.
I definately want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil do
you mean the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I could
do better
than him=2C but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) success. Still in
the daydreaming phase.
. O-200From: amsafetyc(at)aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 02
35 108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches
=2C after all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:06:33
-0500To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey(at)bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 01:49:50 -0500From: rmueller23(at)gmail.comTo: pieten
pol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping . The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan st" target=_blan
k>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.
com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find Out How href
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orums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://w
ww.matronics.com/c
8/29/2008 7:07 AM st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to beeao/108588797/direct/01/' target=
========== )=AD=E6=DF=A2{l=8B7=B6r=89h=AFM4=D3M=1Fi=C7
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=BE&=AD=85=E5=9ElZ+=BAk=1A=86=B7=9F=86=DBi=FF=F7=E8=AE=E9=AC=99=ABk=A2x=9C
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_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
Ben=2C
I've already made a deal on a C65 powered piet=2C just waiting to come up w
ith another $1=2C500 and it's half mine. My dad bought half of it from a f
riend and I'm buying him out of the other half. Neither of us have flown i
t so it should be fun to learn. But I still want to start a project. I mi
ss the feeling of building a flying machine with my own two hands. I could
be flying the RV6 but even though the 'ol man and I built it together he p
ut up the cash and I don't like digging around in his toybox.
Jonathan> Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 08:34:58 -0400> From: bcharvet@bellsouth.
net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
et(at)bellsouth.net>> > If what your really want is to FLY=2C why not buy a co
mplete flying > airplane. I bought my Baby Ace for a lot cheaper than I'll
be able to > build my Piet. Just a thought....> Ben> > Jonathan Ragle wrote
:> > Who knows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits
> > are cheap due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just > >
wanting to build or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)> > >
========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how.
http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_
yahoo_082008
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months learning
and reading it's time to get to it.
Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is gonna kick
in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a hurry. What
are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style, etc. I'm perfectly
good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do the other. I don't need
to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple blocks over plans for positioning,
and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for clamps? Handiest place
to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way overpriced?
At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have Corvair motor
experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual and many parts on
hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
Comments welcome.
Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely possible
I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't the best)
so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And for those of you
(you know who you are) Thanks.
Tim in Bovey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Tim,
There are many interesting ideas out there about how to build the jig, which
have all worked for that particular builder. Having built one Pietenpol rib
jig and now building the jig for the Riblett airfoil, my opinion on the
matter is to make the jig as simple as possible to do the job correctly. I
want spend more of my time building my airplane than building the "tooling"
to build my airplane. Remember, Pietenpol was building his airplanes in a
tiny little town in Minnesota in the '20s. This only requires as much rocket
science as you make it require.
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
Click on the Wood tab, and there are a number of videos dealing with rib
building to give you an idea.
I think the way they show in the video is pretty simple. If you are using
the Riblett I am assuming you have or will be getting the full size print
from either Roman or Bill. Lay it out flat and double check the dimensions
(spar center to spar center, etc) to make sure they are reasonably close
(mine were just fine). Tape down the full size print. Cover it with plastic
as recommended. Nail your blocks in place and start building.
Initially I was going to not use nails/staples, and use weights instead. But
after actually trying out the stapling method I've changed my mind. I picked
up the cheapest plastic stapler they had at the store (one of the Easyshot
"forward action" staplers for $10). If you just lightly lay the head of the
staple gun against the wood when you shoot, the 1/4" staples do not
penetrate all the way in. If you stop by an office supply store you can get
a cheap ($3 - $4) staple remover that will make quick and easy work of
taking them out without damaging the wood. It's fast, it's easy, and it
works. You don't have to worry about how much weight to use, or about the
gussets sliding around. You don't have to figure out a clamping method.
The additional benefit of stapling is that you can pull the rib out of the
jig as soon as you are done applying the gussets on one side. Flip it over
and put gussets on the other side, and set the whole thing aside to dry.
Although I know you aren't interested in speed, it gives you the option.
Another upside is that you don't have to worry about the rib sticking to the
jig by the time it dries.
I bought my capstrip and ply from AS&S. I think getting it from Aircraft
Spruce or Wicks is the most convenient method. There are those who like to
find spruce of acceptable quality locally, grade the wood themselves, and
rip it down to the dimensions they need. This is a way to do it, but I would
rather just make a phone call and spend more time building. I can't speak
for the rest of the wood to build the aircraft, but at least in regards to
capstrip material Wicks is twice as expensive as Aircraft Spruce ($0.70 per
foot vs $0.32 per foot).
As far as building the one piece vs. the three piece wing, you can find
plenty of discussions on this in the archive, and get feedback from those
list members that have completed their own Piet to see what they think of
it. I have chosen to build the three piece, and here is my reasoning why. A
three piece wing will take up far less space in a workshop. You can deal
with ~12.5 ft panels instead of a 28 ft wing. It will be easier to assemble.
We will use Bill Rewey's 3 ft center section concept, which will give us
plenty of room for fuel to feed the Corvair. Finally, if (god forbid) one
wing is ever damaged for whatever reason, and the other is not, you don't
have to wrangle a 28 ft wing off the airplane to repair it. Just fix the
offending wing panel.
With all of that being said, realize these are just my opinions. I formed
them from talking with successful builders, spending far too much time
reading the archives from this list, reading everything I could get my hands
on, etc. But I have not yet completed a Piet. Take it for what it is worth.
Emulate the builders' methods and ideas you like best that have resulted in
safe flying aircraft to get yourself into the air in a timely fashion.
Hope that helps. Have a good Labor Day everyone!
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Tim Verthein wrote:
> minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months
> learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is
> gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a
> hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style,
> etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do
> the other. I don't need to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple blocks
> over plans for positioning, and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for
> clamps? Handiest place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way
> overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have Corvair
> motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual and many
> parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely
> possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't the
> best) so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And for
> those of you (you know who you are) Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Ryan,
What is Bill Rewey's 3 ft. center section concept? I missed that
somewhere. Does bill sell plans and/or a drawings of how he does
this? (Bill, feel free to answer directly, I'm real interested - one
of my concerns about the Corvair is that it's fuel consumption makes
a 10-12 gal. tank in the center section a little bit scant in terms
of duration).
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
On Sep 1, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Tim,
>
> There are many interesting ideas out there about how to build the
> jig, which have all worked for that particular builder. Having
> built one Pietenpol rib jig and now building the jig for the
> Riblett airfoil, my opinion on the matter is to make the jig as
> simple as possible to do the job correctly. I want spend more of my
> time building my airplane than building the "tooling" to build my
> airplane. Remember, Pietenpol was building his airplanes in a tiny
> little town in Minnesota in the '20s. This only requires as much
> rocket science as you make it require.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
> Click on the Wood tab, and there are a number of videos dealing
> with rib building to give you an idea.
>
> I think the way they show in the video is pretty simple. If you are
> using the Riblett I am assuming you have or will be getting the
> full size print from either Roman or Bill. Lay it out flat and
> double check the dimensions (spar center to spar center, etc) to
> make sure they are reasonably close (mine were just fine). Tape
> down the full size print. Cover it with plastic as recommended.
> Nail your blocks in place and start building.
>
> Initially I was going to not use nails/staples, and use weights
> instead. But after actually trying out the stapling method I've
> changed my mind. I picked up the cheapest plastic stapler they had
> at the store (one of the Easyshot "forward action" staplers for
> $10). If you just lightly lay the head of the staple gun against
> the wood when you shoot, the 1/4" staples do not penetrate all the
> way in. If you stop by an office supply store you can get a cheap
> ($3 - $4) staple remover that will make quick and easy work of
> taking them out without damaging the wood. It's fast, it's easy,
> and it works. You don't have to worry about how much weight to use,
> or about the gussets sliding around. You don't have to figure out a
> clamping method.
>
> The additional benefit of stapling is that you can pull the rib out
> of the jig as soon as you are done applying the gussets on one
> side. Flip it over and put gussets on the other side, and set the
> whole thing aside to dry. Although I know you aren't interested in
> speed, it gives you the option. Another upside is that you don't
> have to worry about the rib sticking to the jig by the time it dries.
>
> I bought my capstrip and ply from AS&S. I think getting it from
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks is the most convenient method. There are
> those who like to find spruce of acceptable quality locally, grade
> the wood themselves, and rip it down to the dimensions they need.
> This is a way to do it, but I would rather just make a phone call
> and spend more time building. I can't speak for the rest of the
> wood to build the aircraft, but at least in regards to capstrip
> material Wicks is twice as expensive as Aircraft Spruce ($0.70 per
> foot vs $0.32 per foot).
>
> As far as building the one piece vs. the three piece wing, you can
> find plenty of discussions on this in the archive, and get feedback
> from those list members that have completed their own Piet to see
> what they think of it. I have chosen to build the three piece, and
> here is my reasoning why. A three piece wing will take up far less
> space in a workshop. You can deal with ~12.5 ft panels instead of a
> 28 ft wing. It will be easier to assemble. We will use Bill Rewey's
> 3 ft center section concept, which will give us plenty of room for
> fuel to feed the Corvair. Finally, if (god forbid) one wing is ever
> damaged for whatever reason, and the other is not, you don't have
> to wrangle a 28 ft wing off the airplane to repair it. Just fix the
> offending wing panel.
>
> With all of that being said, realize these are just my opinions. I
> formed them from talking with successful builders, spending far too
> much time reading the archives from this list, reading everything I
> could get my hands on, etc. But I have not yet completed a Piet.
> Take it for what it is worth. Emulate the builders' methods and
> ideas you like best that have resulted in safe flying aircraft to
> get yourself into the air in a timely fashion.
>
> Hope that helps. Have a good Labor Day everyone!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Tim Verthein
> wrote:
>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending
> months learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter
> is gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out
> ribs in a hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of
> nifty clamping style, etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side
> and waiting a day or so to do the other. I don't need to crank 'em
> out assembly line style. Simple blocks over plans for positioning,
> and nailed or stapled gussets then no need for clamps? Handiest
> place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are they way overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have
> Corvair motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne
> manual and many parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for
> simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's
> entirely possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational
> skills aren't the best) so if you wanted one and I missed you,
> contact me off list. And for those of you (you know who you are)
> Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Gustav to visit Corky |
Latest projections show the remains of Gustav headed somewhere between Shreveport
and Lufkin, out in Corky's neck of the woods. Shouldn't be much in the way
of wind by then but I'll bet there will be rain.
Won't matter much to ol' Corky though... he's basking in the season opener victory
for his LSU Tigers.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Kip,
Unfortunately Bill is not on the mailing list (pretty sure not on email at
all), but I will tell you what I know.
Bill built his Piet with a 36" center section, and the circular cut-out to
make entry easier. He says this allows for up to a 15 gallon fuel tank. We
are using the Corvair as well, and that is the main impetus for wanting a
little more fuel capacity. Bill's Piet has been flying for something like 14
years, so it works. Pics of his Piet are at:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_3.htm
Bill sells a collection of building tips and info for $20, or you can
purchase individual topics for $2 and a SASE. The center section info is one
page, with hand sketches and drawings, text descriptions and notes. It's not
quite a "plan sheet" like the Pietenpol plans, but it has all the
information you need presented pretty clearly. Personally I would recommend
just sending Bill a check for $20 and get the whole collection. There is all
sorts of good information, ideas, and articles contained therein, in my
opinion. He also includes a CD recording of his 2006 Oshkosh forum. I've
attached a scan of the sheet Bill hands out at his forum. This lists all the
topics in the packet, and has his address at the bottom. If you need any
more info, or it doesn't come through just let me know.
Hope that helps. Have a good day,
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Kip and Beth Gardner <
kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ryan,
> What is Bill Rewey's 3 ft. center section concept? I missed that
> somewhere. Does bill sell plans and/or a drawings of how he does this?
> (Bill, feel free to answer directly, I'm real interested - one of my
> concerns about the Corvair is that it's fuel consumption makes a 10-12 gal.
> tank in the center section a little bit scant in terms of duration).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200 |
If you are widening it out and using a motor with over twice the original H
P=2C I'm not going to flame you for saying that the original aircraft must
be respected and/or preserved. It's
like wanting an all original 1932 ford 3 window coupe=2C but wanting it wit
h a Chevy 350 and air conditioning. But I'm going to keep the original bra
kes because they have worked well
since 1932=2C and you have to respect the originality. =3B)
Seriously though=2C if you are going to the extent of building a widebody w
ith a modern big number powerplant (and thus no slant nosed piet which I th
ink looks way cool) then I think originality is
out of the window. But if I had to pick 2 of the three (space=2C power=2C
modern foil) I would definately pick the two that you have picked. Can't w
ait to see some pics and hear about
it's habits. I might have to copycat your build. Sounds like it's going t
o be pretty swiet.
Jonathan
. O-200From: amsafetyc(at)aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 13:18:51 +0000
For me=2C Bernie is the man so I am going with the original foil=2C its wor
ked well since 1929 hard to justify something else. Especially with keeping
most all fuse elements in balance. If it were not for my personal preferen
ces for room and power I would have stayed more on plan. Built its my airpl
ane so that's the direction Iam going. I believe its a matter of choice for
me I chose the Piet because that's what I wanted warts and all. If you're
looking for great climb=2C speed=2C aerobatics or big usable weight and 4 p
lace you may be better satisfied looking elsewhere. I think you got to have
a certain appreciation for project and a love for your piet or you'll only
be flying the piss out or her till she dies. Sorry for the sermon on the p
iet but you got to love and respect her. Just my never humble opinion=2C le
t the flames begin!GepittoJohn RecineNX895BP reserved and building
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:45:41
-0500To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Funny you mention the O-235=2C I had been considering it as an option aswel
l if one can be had for a reasonable price. Would make a very capable piet
. I definately want to stay informed on your build.When you say BP airfoil
do you mean the original Berny Piet design? I figure 80 years later I cou
ld do better than him=2C but perhaps I shouldn't mess with (sort of) succes
s. Still in the daydreaming phase.
. O-200From: amsafetyc(at)aol.comDate: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 12:23:51 +0000
JonSome interesting posts I am building a wide body Piet with a lycomimg 02
35 108 hp and the BP air foil. Naturally I have been adding my own touches
=2C after all its my airplane. John RecineNX895BP Reserved Sent from my Ver
izon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com>Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 07:06:33
-0500To: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs.
C90 vs. O-200
Hand propping is no big deal. If you are going to wear a leather helmet an
d goggles it is almost required for authenticity purposes. I'm just wantin
g a more realistic 2 seat aircraft at some point=2C but for now I'm going t
o fly the piss out of the piet and leave it like it is. I've got some work
to do=2C I haven't been current since I was 21 and I need a tailwheel endo
rsement. Thinking about building a widened piet with an O-200 and a modifi
ed airfoil. Not sure. I have been out of building since highschool when m
y dad and I built an RV6 and I would like to cut my teeth on spruce. Who k
nows=2C I might build an RV4 or 6 with an O-320 (incomplete kits are cheap
due to being "obsolete") or a Sonexwith an AeroVee. Just wanting to build
or modify something=2C but mostly wanting to FLY. :)
From: zharvey(at)bellsouth.netTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pie
tenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 20:37:25 -0500
Hand propping is like flying with a tail wheel. Not many pilots do it anym
ore and most that do wouldn't have it any other way.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Sunday=2C August 31=2C 2008 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Many thanks! I think my dad talked me out of a swap though. He said "Why
turn an $8000 airplane into an $18=2C000 airplane?". I think I'm going to
buy an exercise bike instead. :)
Date: Sun=2C 31 Aug 2008 01:49:50 -0500From: rmueller23(at)gmail.comTo: pieten
pol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 vs. C90 vs. O-200
Jonathan=2CThis information came from Ron Wanttaja's Fly Baby page: http://
www.bowersflybaby.com/Another influential homebuilt=2C and a very informati
ve website. He says the engine info came from Harry Fenton=2C who was/is an
A&P who posted to their mailing list.----------------------------------Mot
or Mount AdaptabilityQuestion:I'm now looking at a KR2 with a C65 engine wh
ich means hand-propping . The external looks prettygood (in the pict
ure) and should be getting some interior pics and answers to lots of other
questions soon. I do like having the Continental motor. Do you happen to kn
ow if the motor mount for a C65 will work with a C85 or 0200? I'd like to w
ork towards the engine with a starter and more HP if possible.Answer:The mo
tor mount for the A-65 and C85 series is the same in that conical rubber bu
shings are used. As such=2C the overall dimensions from the engine mount l
ugs on the engine to the prop flange shaft remain the same. The C-90-12=2C
-14=2C 16 and O-200 have different mounts and the lugs are set further for
ward on the engine case. These engines can be mounted on the A-65 mount bu
t require about a 2" spacer to position the prop flange in the same locatio
n as the A-65. the C-85-12 will be your best choice for a low-hassle insta
llation. That's what I was able to find thus far. Maybe that will help give
you an idea.RyanOn Thu=2C Aug 28=2C 2008 at 8:33 AM=2C Jonathan Ragle wrote:>> Do these all use the same engine mount? Anyone
know roughly the dimensional difference?>> >> Jonathan st" target=_blan
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Turnbuckles: correction!!! |
I apologize for giving out wrong information on the size of cables and turnbuckles
on 41CC. Wrong, wrong!!! I guess I didn't have my reading glasses on and
it wasn't that light in the hangar, but checking everything again today, in the
bright sunlight, confirmed that the wing strut cable braces, as well as the
cabane X-braces, are 1/8" aircraft cable but the turnbuckle ends mike at 5/32".
(Does that make them 10-32 thread?)
The aileron, elevator, rudder, and tailwheel control cables are 3/32" cable. The
tail brace wires are 1/16" cable.
My earlier point is still valid: there are no turnbuckles on 41CC that have 1/4"
thread turnbuckle ends; they are all smaller than that.
Just to pay my penance for giving out wrong information, I started up the engine
and made one circuit of the airfield. "One ping only, Vasily". There were
dove hunters all around the fields since the whitewing dove season is open, so
I didn't care to fly too low, and we were just coming off a TFR since the President
and VP flew in to SA this afternoon, so I just went up and back. Wind
was gusting from the NNE, somewhat of a x-wind, but we managed it and I do apologize
for the misinformation.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal |
Tim, I have been building my ribs for a couple weeks now and have a lot of
new, time saving ideas on how to build the jigs, soakers, etc., as well as
building techniques. I am in the process of making a "Hint" video that I
hope I can sell directly to people and send it via email. If you can wait
about another week or so, I should have it done. You would get the first
copy!
I will be advertising my video as soon as I get it done and find a good
medium to do so. (I don't believe the Piet list has such an area.) Since
your question popped up, I thought I would give you a heads up. I was
thinking about $10.00 for the video. Right now it is almost 45 min. in
length. I figure it will be over an hour when finished.
Just a thought. Good luck and welcome to the "club."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib jigs, Wood and a Goal
>
>
> I've finally set a goal and am ready to get to work. After spending months
> learning and reading it's time to get to it.
>
> Goal: All the ribs done by spring. Since good ol' Minnesota winter is
> gonna kick in in a few weeks! I'm not looking at cranking out ribs in a
> hurry. What are thoughts on jigs? I've seen lots of nifty clamping style,
> etc. I'm perfectly good with doing one side and waiting a day or so to do
> the other. I don't need to crank 'em out assembly line style. Simple
> blocks over plans for positioning, and nailed or stapled gussets then no
> need for clamps? Handiest place to buy the wood for ribs? AS&S? Or are
> they way overpriced?
>
> At this point, planning on Riblett 612. Corvair power, since I have
> Corvair motor experience (in the cars) and already have the Wynne manual
> and many parts on hand. Thinking one piece wing for simplicity.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Also, hope everyone who wanted Waldo Pepper got one by now. It's entirely
> possible I missed someone along the way (my organizational skills aren't
> the best) so if you wanted one and I missed you, contact me off list. And
> for those of you (you know who you are) Thanks.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol plans 24" wide
center section (not the 36" wide center section). I have had occasion to remove
and reinstall the wings on 41CC and I can tell you two things about this:
1. It is quite easy to remove and reinstall one or both wing panels in a couple
of hours if there are two, and preferably three, people on hand to help with
it. Have tools, safety wire, cotter pins, a string and a level (or angle finder)
and it's quite straightforward. The individual wing panels are clumsy but
manageable. And the feeling is indescribable when the wings go onto the fuselage
and it becomes an airplane! Absolutely the most delicious sensation, and
tensioning all the brace wires and control wires are like an orchestra tuning
up for a wonderful concert. One of the most memorable moments of the whole experience.
2. I cannot imagine handling a single-piece wing with fewer than four people or
some very clever adjustable supports and jigs. It must be a very interesting
operation for one person to handle, but we sent men to the moon using only slide-rules,
pencil, paper, and protractors and the pulley is a marvellous invention
that can be used by a clever builder to manage quite a bit on his or her
own. If I were building a Piet from scratch I would not build the one-piece wing
unless I were building in a hangar that I had all to myself, was retired from
my job, and was not in a hurry.
The other thing I can mention is that William Wynne's Corvair-powered Piet had
a 17 gallon centersection fuel tank in its final configuration. He glassed in
the entire center section and accommodated that amount of fuel, presumably with
the conventional Pietenpol airfoil section... somehow. He incorporated a "fuel
rail" down one side of the tank, with the fuel takeoff line at the aft end
of the rail. With the reported fuel consumption of the Corvair being about
6 GPH, such a fuel capacity would give 2 hours range with a very decent reserve,
and that's about as long as one wants to sit in a Piet on a cross-country.
I have never sat in my Piet while flying off a complete tank of fuel down to
the reserve, but came quite close once and do not care to repeat it without a
good reason.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: one-piece wing |
Oscar,
William told me a number of years ago that he had glassed his center
section & gotten the result you mention, but he was never forthcoming
about HOW he did it, except in the most general terms (which I've
forgotten in the intervening 7 or 8 years). 17 gal. seems about right
to get 2 hrs. plus reserve.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:44 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
>
> Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol
> plans 24" wide center section (not the 36" wide center section). I
> have had occasion to remove and reinstall the wings on 41CC and I
> can tell you two things about this:
>
> 1. It is quite easy to remove and reinstall one or both wing panels
> in a couple of hours if there are two, and preferably three, people
> on hand to help with it. Have tools, safety wire, cotter pins, a
> string and a level (or angle finder) and it's quite
> straightforward. The individual wing panels are clumsy but
> manageable. And the feeling is indescribable when the wings go
> onto the fuselage and it becomes an airplane! Absolutely the most
> delicious sensation, and tensioning all the brace wires and control
> wires are like an orchestra tuning up for a wonderful concert. One
> of the most memorable moments of the whole experience.
>
> 2. I cannot imagine handling a single-piece wing with fewer than
> four people or some very clever adjustable supports and jigs. It
> must be a very interesting operation for one person to handle, but
> we sent men to the moon using only slide-rules, pencil, paper, and
> protractors and the pulley is a marvellous invention that can be
> used by a clever builder to manage quite a bit on his or her own.
> If I were building a Piet from scratch I would not build the one-
> piece wing unless I were building in a hangar that I had all to
> myself, was retired from my job, and was not in a hurry.
>
> The other thing I can mention is that William Wynne's Corvair-
> powered Piet had a 17 gallon centersection fuel tank in its final
> configuration. He glassed in the entire center section and
> accommodated that amount of fuel, presumably with the conventional
> Pietenpol airfoil section... somehow. He incorporated a "fuel
> rail" down one side of the tank, with the fuel takeoff line at the
> aft end of the rail. With the reported fuel consumption of the
> Corvair being about 6 GPH, such a fuel capacity would give 2 hours
> range with a very decent reserve, and that's about as long as one
> wants to sit in a Piet on a cross-country. I have never sat in my
> Piet while flying off a complete tank of fuel down to the reserve,
> but came quite close once and do not care to repeat it without a
> good reason.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: one-piece wing |
Air Camper N502R has a single piece wing. I found it fairly easy and simple
to remove and then replace the wing by myself.
It would probably take two to move the wing around if you were moving it
very far. I Just needed to lift the wing and did not transport it. Made
two padded slings and hung pulleys from the roof beams. Lifted the wing
off, moved the fuselage out from under it, then lowered the wing. Not sure
what I'd have had the other 3 helpers do while I was doing that.
Gene
>
>
> Air Camper NX41CC has the 3-piece wing setup with the Pietenpol plans 24"
> wide center section (not the 36" wide center section). I have had
> occasion to remove and reinstall the wings on 41CC and I can tell you two
> things about this:
>
>>
> 2. I cannot imagine handling a single-piece wing with fewer than four
> people or some very clever adjustable supports and jigs. It must be a
> very interesting operation for one person to handle, but we sent men to
> the moon using only slide-rules, pencil, paper, and protractors and the
> pulley is a marvellous invention that can be used by a clever builder to
> manage quite a bit on his or her own. If I were building a Piet from
> scratch I would not build the one-piece wing unless I were building in a
> hangar that I had all to myself, was retired from my job, and was not in a
> hurry.
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 7:07 AM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Front cockpit cover |
| From: | "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> |
Hi Gene,
I made my cockpit covers of "Sunbrella", a waterproof canvas sold at
most marine stores, as well as many fabric shops. I also bought a snap
grommet kit from West Marine and installed the snaps on the canvas and
the cockpit coaming. My wife sewed the covers of the Sunbrella and they
work very well. Here is a picture of the covers installed on my
Pietenpol at Brodhead a couple of years ago and at Dulles International
Airport this past June. My covers fit behind the windshields so there
is not much tendency to peel off in flight. They do a good job of
protecting the cockpits, although some rain still gets in, mostly around
the holes for the forward cabane struts. They have stood up to violent
thunderstorms at Oshkosh and at Dulles.
The covers work well and I can fly with the front cover installed (I did
just that leaving Brodhead this summer). I have a cabin heater in my
Piet (which does a good job of warming your right foot) and with the
front cockpit cover installed it helps at least keep your feet and legs
warm.
BTW, I was at MKL this past weekend, visitng Mom in the RV-4. Thought
about running over to Camden to see your Pietenpol, but wasn't sure
which airport you fly from.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene &
Tammy
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Front cockpit cover
Group. I'm starting to think about getting ready for winter flying and
I'm considering covering the front cockpit. Covering the front cockpit
will cut down on the cool air coming up my pant legs plus will make it
into a good cargo area. Wondering if anyone on the list has come up
with a good looking and secure covering. I don't wish to reinvent the
wheel and will steal a good idea in a heart beat. All ideas will be
greatly appreciated, even if ignored.
Gene
N502R
(Yes Oscar, some of us do need to wear more than a bathing suit while
flying)
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Gene;
What I found when installing the wings on my airplane was that it took at least
two people... one to wiggle and maneuver the wing to line up the attach fitting
bolt holes, and the other to insert the bolts and secure them. I guess you
could do it by yourself using pins or rods to line up the holes but the wiggling
is much easier if the wiggler is out at the wingtip where there is good leverage.
Corky advised me to attach and detach the wings sort of in unison or it could tip
over onto one wing, so after attaching both wings at the root attach fittings
in a "drooped" configuration, I then put a folding table under each wing just
past the strut attach points and then stacked boxes and pillows on the tables
to bring the wings more or less level but still allow them to move somewhat
(thus the pillows). From there it was a matter of installing the struts, then
the jury struts, then the control cables and pitot tubing, then tensioning the
x-bracing, and finally reinstalling the wing gap fittings after confirming
control travel free and correct and all fasteners in place and secured.
Removal and reinstallation is a heck of a lot easier after everything is rigged
and test-flown because then it's a matter of just replacing everything into its
original position and then a quick check of rig. It is still not a quick operation
though.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator travel |
http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/01-21-04.htm
Raymond,
I built the exactly to the plans. The geometry was such that full up
elevator travel was prevented by the walking beam pushrod (301-16)
contacting the aft end of the torque tube (301-06). I solved the
problem by lowering the elevator bell crank assembly about an inch.
Regards,
Tom Bernie
On Aug 26, 2008, at 10:00 AM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> >
>
> Well I have made a belcrank for my GN-1 according to plans dimension-
> but seems to be a little short in travel.I will need to get the
> length of the cables set better but right now I have what appears to
> be about 30 degrees of up and only about 10 down if that.I am
> wondering how much difference is needed to safely fly if the plane
> is in the G range.I expect more up than down but not sure how
> much.Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 0654#200654
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Jonathan,
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going
in halves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You
mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current,
get your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking because
it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole
bunch and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that, just
making an observation)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike=2C
No problem whatsoever one up=2C but I would love to be able to take my GF u
p with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem with 65HP
for fun factor=2C just safety.
Jonathan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -050
0From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.govTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan=2C
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going in h
alves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current=2C ge
t your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking because it
seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole bunch
and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that=2C just
making an observation)
Mike C.
_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Mike,
No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able to take my
GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem
with 65HP for fun factor, just safety.
Jonathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -0500
From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan,
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going
in halves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You
mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current,
get your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking
because it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a
number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole
bunch and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that, just
making an observation)
Mike C.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/'
target='_new'>Game with Windows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
Mike,Mike,Mike,,,
You are so right on with your thinking.
Some day I have to shake your hand, and buy you a brewski.
"Probly" won't happen,,,but I can dream.
Ain't Life Grand
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Jonathan,
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going
in halves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You
mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current,
get your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking
because it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a
number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole
bunch and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that, just
making an observation)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
Jonathan,
If you build to the plans, an A-65 will take you anywhere you want to
go.
Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#) and a friend (190#) up
with a 65hp?
Not a problem.
Build light, and you will be good to go.
My runway is 2550ft.
PS What's a GF?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Mike,
No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able to take my
GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem
with 65HP for fun factor, just safety.
Jonathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -0500
From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan,
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going
in halves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You
mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current,
get your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking
because it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a
number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole
bunch and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that, just
making an observation)
Mike C.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/'
target='_new'>Game with Windows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
Jonathan,
When you say "shorter fields", what do you mean? Do you have airports/strips
you plan on flying out of that you know would be challenging for a Piet with
two people, or are you worrying about the nebulous short fields that you may
or may not encounter at some point in the future after you have built your
airplane? If the latter is the case, what do you consider a shorter field?
Also, what do you weigh and what does your girlfriend weigh?
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Jonathan Ragle wrote:
> Mike,
>
> No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able to take my GF up
> with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem with 65HP
> for fun factor, just safety.
>
> Jonathan
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd Smith" <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
WHOA, Ryan! You never, ever ask that last question! :-)
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Jonathan,
>
> When you say "shorter fields", what do you mean? Do you have
> airports/strips you plan on flying out of that you know would be challenging
> for a Piet with two people, or are you worrying about the nebulous short
> fields that you may or may not encounter at some point in the future after
> you have built your airplane? If the latter is the case, what do you
> consider a shorter field?
>
> Also, what do you weigh and what does your girlfriend weigh?
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Jonathan Ragle wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>> No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able to take my GF up
>> with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem with 65HP
>> for fun factor, just safety.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Front cockpit cover |
Jack those are great looking covers. That's what I'll probably do.
Wish you had stopped in. I do hanger and fly out of OM4 (Benton
County). This weekend I drove over and visited with Randy(Just East of
Jackson) and talked Piets. Flew a bit this morning but it was too
snotty to enjoy. Sure be glad when the cooler, clear weather returns.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Phillips, Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Front cockpit cover
.
BTW, I was at MKL this past weekend, visitng Mom in the RV-4. Thought
about running over to Camden to see your Pietenpol, but wasn't sure
which airport you fly from.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
It's been said many times before, but "Simplicate and add Lightness". I've yet
to come across a Piet builder/pilot that said "well I didn't add this thing or
that thing, but i wish I would have"... come across quite a few that said "
I wish I wouldn't have added this or that, could've saved some weight". Lightness
is directly proportional to good handling and good climb. If one builds
lightly with an A-65 and dare I say, uses the Pietenpol airfoil, they will build
and airplane that performs really well. I hate to keep saying it but I weigh
about 180lbs and regularly fly my dad around at 225lbs. with full fuel and
have never felt nervous at all. My strip is about 2500' long. It has power lines
at one end and trees about 400' off the other end. Part of not feeling nervous
though is to always try to make good judgement calls. The Piet like any
small airplane is sensitive to temperature. If it's in the mid 90's I just
won't fly with someone like my dad. If it's a nice comfortable day though, look
out! I got the chance to fly an Aeronca K yesterday. I flew it solo and with
a passenger. It is a 1938 model. I really enjoyed it, lots of fun. But
I just gotta say... Mr. Pietenpol designed his plane several years before the
'K' and he sure did have his ducks in a row. Aeronca should have went to him
for advice! Uh-oh, any Aeronca K guys on here?!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2213#202213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lloyd Smith" <lesmith240(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
You make several good points. The key is as Clint Eastwood used to say, ya
just have to know your limitations. I'm not sure where I'll be flying my
bird out of when I finish it, so that's still open to discussion. I'm 245#
of aviatin' fun that would like to take the missus for a ride sometime as
well. The way I figure it, with C-150's not being LSA eligible, O-200
engines will continue to be relatively inexpensive for some time. An O-200
without electrics will be just a bit more than a A or C model Continental
weight wise, and if I build the longer fuse as I think I will, that will be
welcome weight on the nose.
Back when I was building race cars, weight was a paramount issue. Our motto
was, less weight is equivalent to having more horsepower, not to mention
they handled a lot better as well. So saving weight is an important issue
with me. I figure if I can get by with no added weight to achieve a
reasonable CG and have the cabanes pretty much vertical with a nice 90-100
hp engine, well, I'll have a margin getting in and out of the grass strips
and fields the Piet was designed for. Just because the throtle has room to
move doesn't mean it has to go there, but if needed, it'll be there.
As for the weight, I told the wife, I've got to build something like 30
ribs. I just need to loose a pound for each rib and I'll be well on my way
to having a better flying airplane.
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Don Emch wrote:
>
> It's been said many times before, but "Simplicate and add Lightness". I've
> yet to come across a Piet builder/pilot that said "well I didn't add this
> thing or that thing, but i wish I would have"... come across quite a few
> that said " I wish I wouldn't have added this or that, could've saved some
> weight". Lightness is directly proportional to good handling and good
> climb. If one builds lightly with an A-65 and dare I say, uses the
> Pietenpol airfoil, they will build and airplane that performs really well.
> I hate to keep saying it but I weigh about 180lbs and regularly fly my dad
> around at 225lbs. with full fuel and have never felt nervous at all. My
> strip is about 2500' long. It has power lines at one end and trees about
> 400' off the other end. Part of not feeling nervous though is to always try
> to make good judgement calls. The Piet like any small airplane is sensitive
> to temperature. If it's in the mid 90's I just won't fly with someone like
> my dad. If it's a nice !
> comfortable day though, look out! I got the chance to fly an Aeronca K
> yesterday. I flew it solo and with a passenger. It is a 1938 model. I
> really enjoyed it, lots of fun. But I just gotta say... Mr. Pietenpol
> designed his plane several years before the 'K' and he sure did have his
> ducks in a row. Aeronca should have went to him for advice! Uh-oh, any
> Aeronca K guys on here?!
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2213#202213
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
Speaking of less weight...I know this is contrary to our ideas of
aircraft/flying, but I was entertaining the idea (over a few beers) of closing
a
compartment of wing, and filling it with gas to make a "lighter" airframe. Not
lighter than air mind you, but make the plane believe it were a 100 pounds
lighter...OK maybe I'm still a bit intoxicated!
Boyce
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> |
Jonathan...
-
Just in case you are out of options, let me tell you of my wonderful GF gif
t to me. When she told me to choose between her and my beloved Pietenpol...
...I kissed her and said honey....FIND THE EXIT SIGN AND HIT THE ROAD!
-
I still send her birthday cards and Christmas cards with me sitting in my p
ietenpol goggles and all........
village idiot...
Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
-
--- On Tue, 9/2/08, Jonathan Ragle wrote:
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 4:07 PM
#yiv1609965381 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv1609965381 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}
Mike,
-
No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able to take my GF up
with me and not worry to much about shorter fields.--No problem with 65
HP for fun factor, just safety.
-
Jonathan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -0500
From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov
#yiv1609965381 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P
{padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}
#yiv1609965381 .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage
{font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}
Jonathan,
-
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going in h
alves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ?--- You mentio
n
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current, get
your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ?---- I'm just asking bec
ause it seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole bunch
and installing bigger engines.-- (nothing wrong with that, just
making an observation)
-
Mike C.
-
-
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/' targ
et='_new'>Game with Windows
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
Hey! What was that POP? And now what's that hissing sound?
Ruh-Roh!
=-O
> Speaking of less weight...I know this is contrary to our ideas
>of aircraft/flying, but I was entertaining the idea (over a few
>beers) of closing a compartment of wing, and filling it with gas to
>make a "lighter" airframe. Not lighter than air mind you, but make
>the plane believe it were a 100 pounds lighter...OK maybe I'm still
>a bit intoxicated!
>Boyce
>
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles loomis <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: extra power ? |
So, my idea of beefing up the fuselage a little at the engine mounts and mounting
a Wasp Jr on the front is a bad Idea? Dang! I was looking at 3000 ft a minute
climb fully loaded, but on the down side, if I had an engine failure, the glide
path would be slightly worse than a Brick. Engine torque could be an issue
as well, but could prolly be cured with a rudder trim tab(about 10 square feet
should do.) Hmm, while I'm at it I better beef up the landing gear and add
a bit larger fuel tank, what if I fully glass both wings, a set of wet wings should
keep me in the air for a nice cross county tour.
Charley
--- On Wed, 9/3/08, walt wrote:
> From: walt <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 8:10 AM
> Jonathan,
> If you build to the plans, an A-65 will take you anywhere
> you want to go.
> Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#)
> and a friend (190#) up with a 65hp?
> Not a problem.
> Build light, and you will be good to go.
> My runway is 2550ft.
>
> PS What's a GF?
>
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jonathan Ragle
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 5:07 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
>
>
> Mike,
>
> No problem whatsoever one up, but I would love to be able
> to take my GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter
> fields. No problem with 65HP for fun factor, just safety.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -0500
> From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Jonathan,
>
> Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are
> potentially going in halves with your Dad on isn't
> sufficient power for you ? You mention
> that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why
> not just get current, get your tailwheel endorsement and
> 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
> on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm
> just asking because it seems there has been a renewed
> interest in the Piet by a number
> of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without
> modifying it a whole bunch and installing bigger engines.
> (nothing wrong with that, just
> making an observation)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
> st"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get thousands of games on your PC, your
> mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/'
> target='_new'>Game with Windows
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
Walt=2C
I'm just going off of what the fellow that is selling me the bird says=2C t
hat it is not a very good airplane 2 up. Send me a link to the vid! I'm a
bout 200lbs but I'm not normaly quite this "healthy". Just that I quit smo
king several months ago and the munchies have been killing me.
And a GF is something that grows to roughly 145lbs after you have lived wit
h it for to long.
Jonathan
Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 18:10:01 -0400From: waltdak(at)verizon.netSubject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: extra power ?To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan=2C
If you build to the plans=2C an A-65 will take you anywhere you want to go.
Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#) and a friend (190#) up with
a 65hp?
Not a problem.
Build light=2C and you will be good to go.
My runway is 2550ft.
PS What's a GF?
walt evansNX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Tuesday=2C September 02=2C 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Mike=2C No problem whatsoever one up=2C but I would love to be able to take
my GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem w
ith 65HP for fun factor=2C just safety. Jonathan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -050
0From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.govTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan=2C
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going in h
alves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current=2C ge
t your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking because it
seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole bunch
and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that=2C just
making an observation)
Mike C.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
Are there any of you guys in the central Kansas area that have a flying or project
Piet that might be willing to let me look it over if I get a chance next week
or the week after? I will most likely be working around the Great Bend, Bushton
area next week and supposed to got to Tescot the following week if it goes
to schedule.I may be putting in so many hours I won't even be able to get away
but never know till the time comes. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2294#202294
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Kansas Piets |
Raymond:
Mine's not flying by a long shot but you're welcome to come by, sit in it,
and make airplane noises if you want to. I'm in McPherson, KS which is
around 60 miles from Great Bend. e-mail me off-line at toms(at)mcpcity.com
during the day or call 620-241-6460 in the evening and we can work out any
details.
Tom Stinemetze
>>> "skellytown flyer" 9/3/2008 7:52 AM >>>
Are there any of you guys in the central Kansas area that have a flying or
project Piet that might be willing to let me look it over if I get a
chance next week or the week after? I will most likely be working around
the Great Bend, Bushton area next week and supposed to got to Tescot the
following week if it goes to schedule.I may be putting in so many hours I
won't even be able to get away but never know till the time comes. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2294#202294
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
Makes sense Jonathan if you'd like a little more power by having a 75 or
80 hp engine to give you a little extra climb with
a passenger over some trees on warmer or hot days. One thing I have
found is that you can have on 65hp Piet totally out climb
another and sometimes the only difference is that one is a tired, low
compression 65 and the other might have just been top
overhauled and tight giving better power. Makes a difference. Mine
doesn't climb like it did when the engine had 100 hours
on it so I'm more selective about who I take and
when---conditions--density altitude, amount of fuel on board, headwind
for
takeoff roll, trees/wires, runway length. It all adds up and like Don
E. said you just try to make good judgment calls.
A 60 F day can make your 65 hp engine feel like 80 compared to an 85
degree day. Other airplanes might not be affected
as much but ours are. I contend that if you have to seriously modify a
Piet to fit your weight or height that you might be just
as well off to go buy a Champ which has about six more feet of wing and
can lift a big boy and his big girlfriend as well....or wife...
or mistress...or to be totally PC....his or her partner. Being a bit
heavy myself I can (unfortunately...) take young, thin women for
rides. One must know one's aircraft limitations.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com |
Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and didn't
see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an open
cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling to take
a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar could guard
against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of darkness!
We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it at
night.
Jeremy in Dallas
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com> |
Walt=2C
Maybe my friend that is selling me the piet is just a bit spoiled for RV6s
and 757s. Also here in TX we deal with a lot of heat and density altitude.
Not sure how many mid day chapter meetings I could make it to on hot days
. Dissappointing=2C but I guess OK since most of the old farts around here
don't care about flying anymore just talking about flying and complaining
about local politics. I do like visiting a lot of remote fields though (or
at least I did years ago when I was current).
And a GF similar to a tumor=2C often one will increase in size when you hav
e lived with it for to long. In my case=2C my once small GF is now an inop
erable 145Lbs. :( So where is that youtube video?
My dad and I (180+200) are going to load up and firewall this thing on a lo
ng runway and see what happens. On a hot day an 80HP Sonex or a 100HP Cess
na makes for a sluggish ride. We are gonna see. I didn't mean to cause th
is many people to jump but I guess if they are all saying that it's a legit
imate 2 place bird then it's a good thing.
Jonathan
Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 18:10:01 -0400From: waltdak(at)verizon.netSubject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: extra power ?To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan=2C
If you build to the plans=2C an A-65 will take you anywhere you want to go.
Did you see my "youtube" where I took me (210#) and a friend (190#) up with
a 65hp?
Not a problem.
Build light=2C and you will be good to go.
My runway is 2550ft.
PS What's a GF?
walt evansNX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Ragle
Sent: Tuesday=2C September 02=2C 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?
Mike=2C No problem whatsoever one up=2C but I would love to be able to take
my GF up with me and not worry to much about shorter fields. No problem w
ith 65HP for fun factor=2C just safety. Jonathan
Subject: Pietenpol-List: extra power ?Date: Tue=2C 2 Sep 2008 11:46:22 -050
0From: Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.govTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Jonathan=2C
Are there any reasons why the 65hp Piet that you are potentially going in h
alves with your Dad on isn't sufficient power for you ? You mention
that you want to 'fly' more than anything so why not just get current=2C ge
t your tailwheel endorsement and 'fly' for a while as you're deciding
on what you might want to build or modify ? I'm just asking because it
seems there has been a renewed interest in the Piet by a number
of guys who really can't enjoy the plane without modifying it a whole bunch
and installing bigger engines. (nothing wrong with that=2C just
making an observation)
Mike C.
st" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobiT/go/108588800/direct/01/' ta
rget='_new'>Game with Windows
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part
of your life.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Jeremy,
Lights in Pietenpols are not too common, but it has been done, on occasion.
It is a feature that adds weight for something that likely is rarely going
to be used. There are two Piets that have lights that are based close to
Brodhead and regularily attend the annual Piet gathering there. They were
built together, and are practically identical. These planes are both powered
by O-200, so they have a bit more power to carry the extra weight. Here's a
link to one photo from WestcoastPiet that shows a light in the wing of N57TL
(it's twin is N58TL).
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Tim%20Mickel/IMG_2151.JPG
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a
method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a
battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of
weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights
Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and
August 20, 2008 - September 03, 2008
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-gy