Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ha

September 25, 2008 - October 22, 2008



      
      OK what really happened? I am curious.?
      
      RS
      
      
      Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
      
      Anchorage, Alaska
      
      907-230-9425
      
      KL2AN
      
      Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
      
      IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:40 PM
Subject: Steve Whittman, accident
I know a close friend of Whittman's, and heard some other evidence as to what caused the crash, and it WAS NOT the fabric comming loose. If any one wants to hear the other story I'll let you know. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2008
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
Hi Shad, I would be interested in hearing what happened as well. By the way Arlene and I enjoyed meeting you and your dad at Brodhead. Cheers, Jim Boyer On Sep 24, 2008, aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com wrote: I know a close friend of Whittman's, and heard some other evidence as to what caused the crash, and it WAS NOT the fabric comming loose. If any one wants to hear the other story I'll let you know. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
shad bell wrote: > I know a close friend of Whittman's, and heard some other evidence > as to what caused the crash, and it WAS NOT the fabric coming loose. > If any one wants to hear the other story I'll let you know. You are referring to the bomber? It does brings up the question of whether the fabric would have held if Mr. Wittman had followed directions, rather than so many decades of experience and habit, but it certainly does cast events in a different light. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Ok Shad: Dont leave us hanaging here!!!! inquiring minds want to know - - - - Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell I know a close friend of Whittman's, and heard some other evidence as to what caused the crash, and it WAS NOT the fabric comming loose. If any one wants to hear the other story I'll let you know. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: and . . . another question
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Gene, I used the 6 foot one . Makes a good gap closer. My recent test flights indicate good aileron control.--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: and . . . another question I am looking at piano hinges for the ailerons. I am assuming that everyone is using the loop type rather than the extruded type. The longest length I can find is 6 ft though, and it looks like the aileron needs a 7 ft hinge. What is everyone doing?? Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/22/2008 4:08 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
I am told Steve had a bladder "problem" and he had to go more often than us ual.- The accident airplane was designed specifically for Steve to fly no n stop from Floridia to Oshkosh, and fast.- I guess he used to carry a pe e bottle with him, especcially on long flights.- Well the only way he cou ld pee was to loosen his belt, scoot to the edge of the seat and pee.- We ll,- I am told Steve's body was found over a mile from the crash site.- He fell out of the airplane!- That is the theory I guess, and he took of f the horiz stab on his way out (180mph+).- Sounds crazy and tragic I kno w, but to me it makes more sense than to say Whittman covered his airplane wrong.- I don't know him from Adam but he built how many airplanes?- Al l fast and similar construction.- May not be the case, but him and his wi fe are the only one's who will ever know for sure. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2008
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
Sounds like just as likely a scenario... Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Steve Whittman, accident
Date: Sep 25, 2008
I think you're right...that does sound crazy. Imagine how difficult it would be to push open a door in a 180 mph wind, and pass through it, unwillingly. And then, I would think the plane would travel quite a bit more than a mile further than a non-aerodynamic human, unless the plane was flying really low. I don't buy it. My Piet won't be travelling at speeds anywhere near 180 mph, but I'm going to rib stitch my tail all the same. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Whittman, accident ... (180mph+). Sounds crazy and tragic I know ... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
Date: Sep 25, 2008
I think if I am not mistaken his wife was a pilot as well? michael ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 4:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Whittman, accident I am told Steve had a bladder "problem" and he had to go more often than usual. The accident airplane was designed specifically for Steve to fly non stop from Floridia to Oshkosh, and fast. I guess he used to carry a pee bottle with him, especcially on long flights. Well the only way he could pee was to loosen his belt, scoot to the edge of the seat and pee. Well, I am told Steve's body was found over a mile from the crash site. He fell out of the airplane! That is the theory I guess, and he took off the horiz stab on his way out (180mph+). Sounds crazy and tragic I know, but to me it makes more sense than to say Whittman covered his airplane wrong. I don't know him from Adam but he built how many airplanes? All fast and similar construction. May not be the case, but him and his wife are the only one's who will ever know for sure. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
Date: Sep 25, 2008
I don't claim to be a "good friend", but I knew Steve fairly well. I think the falling out thing is preposterous. As far as I know, the fabric on the aileron was the cause of the accident. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church<mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:51 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steve Whittman, accident I think you're right...that does sound crazy. Imagine how difficult it would be to push open a door in a 180 mph wind, and pass through it, unwillingly. And then, I would think the plane would travel quite a bit more than a mile further than a non-aerodynamic human, unless the plane was flying really low. I don't buy it. My Piet won't be travelling at speeds anywhere near 180 mph, but I'm going to rib stitch my tail all the same. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:29 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Whittman, accident ... (180mph+). Sounds crazy and tragic I know ... http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
shad bell wrote: > I am told Steve had a bladder "problem" and he had to go more often > than usual... (etc.) When the Wittmans died, I had recently chatted with one of his neighbors in Ocala, a Tailwind owner whose name I no longer recall. I phoned him something less than a week after the accident--I think it was two or three days--to ask what had happened. His version was that Mr. Wittman had indeed treated his Ceconite as if he had been using Grade A cotton. He had no doubt that it had peeled as the official report claimed. However, the report was incomplete. Immediately after the accident, he had talked to one of the tower personnel who was on duty when the accident occurred. According to that conversation, the O-and-O Special disappeared from radar immediately after its path intersected that of a B-2 bomber about five miles away! The tower guy had no doubt that the Wittmans had been brought down by wake turbulence. So if the fabric peeled, it probably did so after the airplane was radically overstressed. By the next day, the tower personnel had been ordered to keep their traps shut. The bomber was never mentioned again, and the official story claimed that there had been nothing in the air at the time. Sounds like the world I live in! YMMV. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
Ryan Mueller wrote: > I had a third cousin, twice removed, that used to work with this guy... Oh, for God's sake. I remember the name as Mac McCullough, which I've probably misspelled. It could be McCarthy, but I think Mac McCarthy was a guy who built strip canoes, with whom I also had some contact at roughly that time. Anyone who knows Tailwinds well enough is likely to remember the guy. He lived two or three doors down from Wittman at Spruce Creek and had lots of Tailwind time in his own machine and in Wittman's birds. He figured prominently in one or two stories in Sport Aviation or Kitplanes 15 years or so ago. Sorry my scholarship doesn't meet your expectations. On the other hand, if you can remember this sort of detail after so long, maybe it's time you got a life. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: charles loomis <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Whittman, accident
So one of the greatest Aviators in world History, who had just won his last air race a few years prior, had to pee, and leaned out his door too far and fell out, and his wife who was an acomplished pilot for over 40 years, suddenly forgot how to fly and the aircraft crashed within one mile of wittmans body. WOW! that really needs to go into the history books. Sorry, I know your just letting us know what someone else told you so I don't blame you in any way, but try to open your car door at 100 mph. Imagine what it would be like at 180. At 170 on my bike if you lift your head and turn side ways you can't turn your head back straight without ducking under the fairing, scary stuff. --- On Fri, 9/26/08, shad bell wrote: > From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steve Whittman, accident > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 7:28 AM > I am told Steve had a bladder "problem" and he had > to go more often than usual. The accident airplane was > designed specifically for Steve to fly non stop from > Floridia to Oshkosh, and fast. I guess he used to carry a > pee bottle with him, especcially on long flights. Well the > only way he could pee was to loosen his belt, scoot to the > edge of the seat and pee. Well, I am told Steve's > body was found over a mile from the crash site. He fell > out of the airplane! That is the theory I guess, and he > took off the horiz stab on his way out (180mph+). Sounds > crazy and tragic I know, but to me it makes more sense than > to say Whittman covered his airplane wrong. I don't > know him from Adam but he built how many airplanes? All > fast and similar construction. May not be the case, but > him and his wife are the only one's who will ever know > for sure. > > Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Steerable Tailwheel
Date: Sep 26, 2008
OK, I'll start. My tailwheel is almost finished and I decided to add the steering horn, rather than rely on brakes for steering. I understand, and have seen many photos of, attaching the tailwheel horn to a rudder horn with springs, but I wish to attach mine to the rudder pedals. What options can you offer, assuming that there are two choices: Run a separate cable all the way to the rudder pedal; or somehow link up with the rudder cable? Thank you, Gary A. Boothe CALPLY / L&W Sales Manager Architectural Products Division gboothe(at)calply.com Cell: (510) 760-0805 E-fax:(510) 880-5945 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Landing gear
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Sep 26, 2008
SSBncmVhdGx5IGVuam95IHRoZSBiYW50ZXIsIGJ1dCBJJ2xsIGFzayBhIHJlYWwgcXVlc3Rpb24u ICANCg0KV2UgYXJlIGFib3V0IHRvIG9yZGVyIG1ldGFsIGZvciBsYW5kaW5nIGdlYXIuICBEb2Vz IGFueW9uZSBoYXZlIGFueSBwbGFucyBmb3IgY3ViIHN0eWxlIGdlYXI/ICBJIGhhdmUgYW4gaWRl YSB3aGF0IEkgd2FudCBpdCB0byBsb29rIGxpa2UsIEkgYW0gY29uY2VybmVkIGFib3V0IHR1Ymlu ZyBzaXplLiAgDQoNClRoYW5rcywgSmVyZW15IGluIERhbGxhcw0KU2VudCB2aWEgQmxhY2tCZXJy eSBmcm9tIFQtTW9iaWxlDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiR2Fy eSBCb290aGUiIDxnYm9vdGhlNUBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldD4NCg0KRGF0ZTogRnJpLCAyNiBTZXAgMjAw OCAwODo0MDo1NiANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6 IFJFOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUGlldGVucG9sIGxpc3QNCg0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIGEgbXVsdGkt cGFydCBtZXNzYWdlIGluIE1JTUUgZm9ybWF0Lg0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Steerable Tailwheel
< What options can you offer, assuming that there are two choices: Run a separate cable all the way to the rudder pedal; or somehow link up with the rudder cable?> There are quite a few responses to this question from about 2-weeks ago when I asked the same question. Believe it or not, just last night I finished running new cables all the way back from the rudder bar to the tail wheel to connect to the shimmy damper springs that I purchased from Aircraft Spruce. The only hard part of the project was the need to install an additional pair of pulleys behind the pilot seat to redirect the new cables down to the tailwheel assembly. There will be a couple of new fairleads also at the point where the cables exit the fuselage. On the whole, these cable assemblies probably weigh more than a simple connection to the rudder but the weight is further forward. Also, the rudder is completely separated from the shock loads imposed by the tail wheel. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Steerable Tailwheel
Gary, On Bill Rewey's Piet, I believe he uses brass (pretty sure they are brass) split bolt connectors to clamp his tailwheel steering cables onto his rudde r cables, just forward of the base of the seat bottom in the rear cockpit. An example of a split bolt connector:
http://www.meetindustries.net/full-images/591109.jpg An example of where they are clamped: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/DSCF0024.JPG I know it's a very poor pic, but it's the only thing I can find online. We are out of town for a wedding so I don't have my Brodhead pics available. I f you look in the area beneath where the headset cable crosses the front of the seat cushion you can just barely make out the connector. At least it gives a bit of an idea of where they are attached. Anyhow, Bill's Piet has been flying for years with no reported problem with that arrangement (that I know of). It's simple, and prevents you from havin g another cable passing through the "foot holes". The location of the clamp allows you to easily inspect the cables for wear or deterioration due to that arrangement. You don't have to worry about beefing up the lower portio n of the rudder to handle any additional stress from using it to steer the tailwheel. Finally, you avoid adding the weight of the beefer rudder structure and rudder-to-tailwheel steering horn. Inconsequential, I am sure , but when it comes to adding weight that far to the rear I would imagine every little bit helps. If you want more info on how to do that it is available from Bill for $2, o r as part of his entire info pack. I don't believe I am infringing on his ability to sell that info. What I have shown or described is no more than what you can see by walking up and looking into his rear cockpit. If you bu y his info sheet it has drawings, and more information. Hope that helps, have a good one. Ryan On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > OK, I'll start=85 > > > My tailwheel is almost finished and I decided to add the steering horn, > rather than rely on brakes for steering. I understand, and have seen many > photos of, attaching the tailwheel horn to a rudder horn with springs, bu t I > wish to attach mine to the rudder pedals. > > > What options can you offer, assuming that there are two choices: Run a > separate cable all the way to the rudder pedal; or somehow link up with t he > rudder cable? > > > Thank you, > Gary A. Boothe > CALPLY / L&W Sales Manager > Architectural Products Division > gboothe(at)calply.com > > Cell: (510) 760-0805 > > E-fax:(510) 880-5945 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Landing gear
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Sorry to interrupt the banter with a real answer, and actually, it's more of a follow-up question rather than an answer, and maybe it could also be classified as "banter", but here goes: By "cub-style" gear, do you mean the split axle gear as shown on drawing No. 3 of the improved Air Camper plans (clip attached). If so, then yes, most builders have the plans. They are readily available from the Pietenpol family. You write that you have an idea what you want it to look like, I would guess that what you want it to look like would be, oh, I don't know... maybe something like ... cub gear? Maybe I'm missing something here. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear I greatly enjoy the banter, but I'll ask a real question. We are about to order metal for landing gear. Does anyone have any plans for cub style gear? I have an idea what I want it to look like, I am concerned about tubing size. Thanks, Jeremy in Dallas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Subject: Steve Whittman
Date: Sep 26, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
Jeremy, Could you define "Cub style" a bit more? If you are building a Pietenpol Air Camper (versus a GN-1), and want to use actual Cub landing gear (or replicate that dimensionally) you would have a problem bolting them on. The gear attach points on a Cub gear do not mate up with the gear fittings on a Piet. If you want "Cub style" versus the wood gear, the 1933 Piet plans that you would purchase from the Pietenpol family include the plan sheet for a welded steel tube landing gear that is more along those lines. There are differences of course; coil springs versus bungees, different geometry, etc. Or are you looking to replicate the exact function and geometry of Cub gear, down to the bungees, but build it to bolt directly on to a Piet? Ryan On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:12 AM, wrote: > I greatly enjoy the banter, but I'll ask a real question. > > We are about to order metal for landing gear. Does anyone have any plans > for cub style gear? I have an idea what I want it to look like, I am > concerned about tubing size. > > Thanks, Jeremy in Dallas > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Radial engines/types/price
Looking at all my engine options, what does the Piet. people know about rad ials for our planes? How about types available and prices? - Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Landing gear
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Sorry about that. I like the looks of the the triangle under the floor to attach my struts to versus the long spring strut to the front gear mounting point. I have springs already, so I don't plan to use shock chord. Our plane is a Sky Scout. I have the plans and builder's guide from the Peit family, but it doesn't have any additional gear plans in it. I want to build them to plans minus the the spring struts. The ones in the plans are heavy and I just like the other look better. The gear on Chuck Gantzer's plane are the look I'm going for. Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:50:05 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
Jeremy, As far as plans for that, I don't know. That is the gear that Bernard used himself on his later aircraft, such as N7533U and the Last Original (take a look on WestCoastPiet for pics). When you say you like the look of Chuck G's gear, do you also mean the streamlined tubing look? I could be wrong, but I don't think he used streamlined tubing to build his gear. If you go to WestCoastPiet and look at pics of his airplane you can see what I would surmise are earlier shots of his Piet with landing gear made from normal round tubing. I would imagine that he later used wood strips fore and aft to fair in the gear legs, and then wrapped those pieces with fabric, thereby achieving the streamlined look. Or at least that is one way you could do it without having to change tubing size from plans (if and when you find those plans :P). Time to get ready for the hoopla this evening. Have a good rest of the day everyone! Ryan On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 12:49 PM, wrote: > > Sorry about that. I like the looks of the the triangle under the floor to > attach my struts to versus the long spring strut to the front gear mounting > point. I have springs already, so I don't plan to use shock chord. Our > plane is a Sky Scout. I have the plans and builder's guide from the Peit > family, but it doesn't have any additional gear plans in it. I want to > build them to plans minus the the spring struts. The ones in the plans are > heavy and I just like the other look better. The gear on Chuck Gantzer's > plane are the look I'm going for. > > Jeremy in Dallas > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Steerable Tailwheel
Gary, one way to attatch it is nicopress the t/w cables to the rudder cable s behind the seat.- If you have already made your rudder cables you will have to remake them in order to get the oval sleeves on to the cables.-We also added some fairleads inside and outside the fuselage to guide the cab les.-We did not use a turnbuckle on the t/w cables, just adjust the lengt h, tension with the small chain links on the t/w springs.- We did this af ter covering, and flying for about 2 years, a pain in the ass!, but definit ly (spelling?) worth it.- Ground handling on pavement is much eaiser, and safer.- Have fun. Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Steerable Tailwheel
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Do you have any photos of this procedure I am right in the middle of installing tailwheel, rudders cable etc. and this would be helpful to me too. Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steerable Tailwheel Gary, one way to attatch it is nicopress the t/w cables to the rudder cables behind the seat. If you have already made your rudder cables you will have to remake them in order to get the oval sleeves on to the cables. We also added some fairleads inside and outside the fuselage to guide the cables. We did not use a turnbuckle on the t/w cables, just adjust the length, tension with the small chain links on the t/w springs. We did this after covering, and flying for about 2 years, a pain in the ass!, but definitly (spelling?) worth it. Ground handling on pavement is much eaiser, and safer. Have fun. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Airborn pee breaks
I remember about 8-9 years ago flying a Cessna Caravan from S Carolina to O hio and trying to get rid of pee in a 2 liter bottle out the rear door (top half clam shell door)-at 10,000 ft and 160kts, with the auto pilot on, a nd I learned that the pee will blow all over you when you try to dump it ov erboard,- So i instinctivly just tossed the bottle half full out the door into the wild blue younder, over rual west virgina.- I hope it didn't wa ke anyone.- Kids, I guess we learn the hard way. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Steerable Tailwheel
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Sep 26, 2008
I'm using Bill Rewy's idea. I connected the tailwheel steering cables to the rudder cables under the rear seat using brass #10 split wire connectors, just like those in the pictures in the previous post. They work really well and I've had no problems at all. They can be easily loosened and slid slightly forward or aft if needed for adjustment. I've only done that once. There are other ways but these are definitely very simple and they don't cause stress on the rudder. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6355#206355 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Landing gear
Date: Sep 26, 2008
OOOOOhhh, you're talking about the Sky Scout landing gear... That's different ... Never mind. But seriously, I guess your plans would show the landing gear similar to the gear shown in the attached photo (Sky Scout.jpg). That is definitely different from the Air camper plans. I kind of like the looks of the Sky Scout gear, but you are building your plane, so you get to do what you want. Anyway, I believe Chuck Gantzer's landing gear was originally built to the Improved Air Camper plans (with bungees), and he later modified them to accommodate the compression springs (see second attached photo). Here's a link to Chuck's webpage - go to the bottom of the page for the landing gear. Looks like it would be pretty straightforward to figure out - all you need to do is replace the cross tubes (with the bungees) with the spring mechanism. There are details of the spring arrangement here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=lndg_gear_spring .jpg&PhotoID 09 And, from the 1933 plans, the sizes of the tubes for the "Improved" landing gear are 1 3/8" diameter x 14ga 1020 steel tube for the main vees, and 3/4" diameter x 18ga 1020 steel tube for the cross tubes. Does that help? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Landing gear
Date: Sep 26, 2008
Oops. Forgot the link to Chuck's webpage. Here it is: http://nx770cg.com/Fuselage.html BC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear OOOOOhhh, you're talking about the Sky Scout landing gear... That's different ... Never mind. But seriously, I guess your plans would show the landing gear similar to the gear shown in the attached photo (Sky Scout.jpg). That is definitely different from the Air camper plans. I kind of like the looks of the Sky Scout gear, but you are building your plane, so you get to do what you want. Anyway, I believe Chuck Gantzer's landing gear was originally built to the Improved Air Camper plans (with bungees), and he later modified them to accommodate the compression springs (see second attached photo). Here's a link to Chuck's webpage - go to the bottom of the page for the landing gear. Looks like it would be pretty straightforward to figure out - all you need to do is replace the cross tubes (with the bungees) with the spring mechanism. There are details of the spring arrangement here: <http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=lndg_gear_sprin g.jpg&PhotoID 09> http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=lndg_gear_spring .jpg&PhotoID 09 And, from the 1933 plans, the sizes of the tubes for the "Improved" landing gear are 1 3/8" diameter x 14ga 1020 steel tube for the main vees, and 3/4" diameter x 18ga 1020 steel tube for the cross tubes. Does that help? Bill C. <<...>> <<...>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2008
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Flighttime Radio tomorrow
We are having Joe Norris on the show tomorrow morning at 10:07 AM eastern time at www.flighttimeradio.com. Joe is the new homebuilt community manager for EAA. He was the top tech support guy there for a log time and is probably the most knowledegeable people I know with experimental and certified aircraft. It would be great if some of you wanted to call into the show and ask Joe some technical questions. The number is 904-854-1320. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Steerable Tailwheel
Date: Sep 26, 2008
We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. Never Be The First To Get Old!!!!! It's good to see some of us are not getting old. I thought that's what Pietenpoling was all about, not getting old! Just to keep things in the proper fashion, I am going to run my tailwheel cables straight to the bar. It might be a little difficult to attach them to the rudder cables anywhere else as they go straight from the bar to the horns. On the horns of a dilema as it were. :-) Won't get that done for a while though, got too many flutes to make! Clif > > Now can we get back to the peeing-in-the-cup stories? I have one too> > Gary Boothe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TBYH(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Subject: Mid-Air "Pit Stop"
One of our local WW2 P-51 pilots, Johnny Salsman, was telling me about how on a long mission one of their pilots had to go -- not just #1 but #2. He didn't know what to do so Johnny (357th FG, 364th FS) told him via the radio to carefully pull his pants down, slide his map under his rear end and let' er go. This worked okay...right up until the "relieved" pilot cracked the canopy to throw the whole mess out...Johnny simultaneously, but an instant too late, called over to tell him DO NOT OPEN THE CANOPY!!! Well you can imagine what a 275 mph or more windspeed did with the map and its "contents!" Johnny said that when they got back to England the pilot was so embarassed that he didn't even let his crew clean out the cockpit of his Mustang -- he did it himself! True story. But as my late Mom would say, "Enough to gag a maggot!" **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mid-Air "Pit Stop"
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2008
R3JlYXQgc3RvcnkgdGhhbmtzLiBUaGUgb25seSBwcm9ibGVtIGlzIHlvdSdyZSBnb25uYSBudW1i ZXIgb25lIG9mZiB0aGUgc2VyaW91cyBwZW9wbGUgdGhhdCBtYWtlIGFuIG9jY2FzaW9uYWwgdmlz aXQgYW5kIGxlYXZlIHdpdGggbWFraW5nIG9mZiBoYW5kZWQgY29tbWVudHMuIA0KDQpGb3IgbWUg aXRzIGFsbCBhYm91dCBzaGFyaW5nDQoNCkp1c3QgZ290IGZpbmlzaGVkIG1vdmluZyBteSBmdXNl IG9mZiB0aGUgYmVuY2ggYW5kIG9uIHRvIHNhdyBob3JzZXMuIE5vdyBJIGNhbiBnZXQgYmFjayB0 byBidWlsZGluZyB0YWlsIGZlYXRoZXJzIHRoZW4gd2luZ3MuIA0KDQpHb3QgdG8gZ2V0IGJhY2sg dG8gaXQgQnJvZGhlYWQgd2lsbCBiZSBoZXJlIGJlZm9yZSB3ZSBrbm93IGl0DQoNCkpvaG4NClNl bnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFRCWUhAYW9sLmNvbQ0KDQpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDI3IFNlcCAyMDA4 IDEyOjI4OjM3IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDog UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IE1pZC1BaXIgIlBpdCBTdG9wIg0KDQoNCk9uZSBvZiBvdXIgbG9jYWwg V1cyIFAtNTEgcGlsb3RzLCBKb2hubnkgU2Fsc21hbiwgd2FzIHRlbGxpbmcgbWUgYWJvdXQgaG93 IG9uIA0KYSBsb25nIG1pc3Npb24gb25lIG9mIHRoZWlyIHBpbG90cyBoYWQgdG8gZ28gLS0gbm90 IGp1c3QgIzEgYnV0ICMyLiBIZSBkaWRuJ3QgDQprbm93IHdoYXQgdG8gZG8gc28gSm9obm55ICgz NTd0aCBGRywgMzY0dGggRlMpIHRvbGQgaGltIHZpYSB0aGUgcmFkaW8gdG8gDQpjYXJlZnVsbHkg cHVsbCBoaXMgcGFudHMgZG93biwgc2xpZGUgaGlzIG1hcCB1bmRlciBoaXMgcmVhciBlbmQgYW5k IGxldCcgZXIgZ28uIA0KVGhpcyB3b3JrZWQgb2theS4uLnJpZ2h0IHVwIHVudGlsIHRoZSAicmVs aWV2ZWQiIHBpbG90IGNyYWNrZWQgdGhlIGNhbm9weSB0byANCnRocm93IHRoZSB3aG9sZSBtZXNz IG91dC4uLkpvaG5ueSBzaW11bHRhbmVvdXNseSwgYnV0IGFuIGluc3RhbnQgdG9vIGxhdGUsIGNh bGxlZCANCm92ZXIgdG8gdGVsbCBoaW0gRE8gTk9UIE9QRU4gVEhFIENBTk9QWSEhIQ0KIA0KV2Vs bCB5b3UgY2FuIGltYWdpbmUgd2hhdCBhIDI3NSBtcGggb3IgbW9yZSB3aW5kc3BlZWQgZGlkIHdp dGggdGhlIG1hcCBhbmQgDQppdHMgImNvbnRlbnRzISIgDQogDQpKb2hubnkgc2FpZCB0aGF0IHdo ZW4gdGhleSBnb3QgYmFjayB0byBFbmdsYW5kIHRoZSBwaWxvdCB3YXMgc28gZW1iYXJhc3NlZCAN CnRoYXQgaGUgZGlkbid0IGV2ZW4gbGV0IGhpcyBjcmV3IGNsZWFuIG91dCB0aGUgY29ja3BpdCBv ZiBoaXMgTXVzdGFuZyAtLSBoZSBkaWQgDQppdCBoaW1zZWxmISANCiANClRydWUgc3RvcnkuIEJ1 dCBhcyBteSBsYXRlIE1vbSB3b3VsZCBzYXksICJFbm91Z2ggdG8gZ2FnIGEgbWFnZ290ISIgDQog DQogDQoNCg0KDQoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKkxvb2tpbmcgZm9yIHNpbXBsZSBzb2x1dGlvbnMgdG8g eW91ciByZWFsLWxpZmUgZmluYW5jaWFsIA0KY2hhbGxlbmdlcz8gIENoZWNrIG91dCBXYWxsZXRQ b3AgZm9yIHRoZSBsYXRlc3QgbmV3cyBhbmQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24sIHRpcHMgYW5kIA0KY2FsY3Vs YXRvcnMuICAgICAgKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2FsbGV0cG9wLmNvbS8/TkNJRD1lbWxjbnR1c3dhbGww MDAwMDAwMSkNCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Radial engines/types/price
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 27, 2008
A number of years ago I installed a Werner 145 on my Piet, and the climb rate exceeded 2000 FPM, weight was up there but I never changed anything, the range was restricted, and was at Brodhead a couple times. I later installed a Lambert 90 HP , and this was perfect, this engine will be at Brodhead next year on another Piet.This Lambert was at Brodhead for the last two years. I put together a couple more Lamberts that will show up on Piets.Most of these engines were purchased for under $7.000.00 with fresh overhauls. There was a Kinner on a Piet a number of years ago. As well as a La blond by the Brodhead boys, and it won the Wright award in 1998. Any dependable round engine of 300 LBS or less will work, and look good. The engines are around, visit the old collectors of parts and put one together, you would be amazed at the performance. Pieti Lowell Thank you. > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6483#206483 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Radial engines/types/price
Michael, Do you have an idea of what you are willing to spend on an engine? For points of reference, our William Wynne based Corvair conversion will run us about $6k by the time we are done. Small Continentals can be had in that ballpark. (two examples of more common Piet powerplant options) Ryan On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Michael Perez wrote: > Looking at all my engine options, what does the Piet. people know about > radials for our planes? How about types available and prices? > > Thank you > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde)
glue still stronger than spruce
Date: Sep 27, 2008
I had an interesting failure on my airplane today. I was taking a 180 pound passenger up for a ride, and about halfway through our takeoff roll, the rudder locked in place. I immediately throttled to idle and rolled to a stop. Turned out his seat had broken going over a bump, and fell directly on top of the rudder pedals, which then supported all of his weight. Could've been dangerous during a landing, as I had no rudder control. The interesting thing was the mode of failure. The seat was improperly made, the 1"x1" stringers under the seat that run from front to back on the seat bottom did not sit ON the rear support. Instead, they butted up against another 1"x1" that sat on the rear support. They should've been extended beside the rear stringer, so they would've carried the load all the way to the rear support. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I'll clarify. The interesting part is that the glue did not fail, the wood did in almost all joints. It even split one of the 3/4" x 1" stringers nearly in half. I've been wondering how well the glue joints maintain their strength over time in an airplane like mine. Hopefully the pictures will explain better. Pictures are here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/brokenseat/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet vs. T-28
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Corky's handiwork got an enthusiastic thumbs-up from a T-28 pilot today. The Trojan taxied by as Tim Willis and I stood discussing wing ribs and metal fittings with John, another Piet builder, at Boerne Stage airfield. With the canopy slid back, the pilot of the gleaming polished aluminum T-28 slowed as he went by and gave a big thumbs-up. On the way back to my home field, I thought about the logistics of his fun flight vs. mine: 4 gal./hr. for the A65 on my airplane and probably 80 gal./hr. for the R-1820 on his ;o) "No delay" takes on a whole new meaning when it costs so much to run those big radials. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde)
glue still stronger than spruce
Date: Sep 27, 2008
As a side note, I now need a very small quantity of 1/4" spruce plywood and a few feet of 1"x1" spruce stock. Where would be a good place to find such a small quantity? Should I just try to find some from a local builder? Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: Pietenpol List Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce I had an interesting failure on my airplane today. I was taking a 180 pound passenger up for a ride, and about halfway through our takeoff roll, the rudder locked in place. I immediately throttled to idle and rolled to a stop. Turned out his seat had broken going over a bump, and fell directly on top of the rudder pedals, which then supported all of his weight. Could've been dangerous during a landing, as I had no rudder control. The interesting thing was the mode of failure. The seat was improperly made, the 1"x1" stringers under the seat that run from front to back on the seat bottom did not sit ON the rear support. Instead, they butted up against another 1"x1" that sat on the rear support. They should've been extended beside the rear stringer, so they would've carried the load all the way to the rear support. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I'll clarify. The interesting part is that the glue did not fail, the wood did in almost all joints. It even split one of the 3/4" x 1" stringers nearly in half. I've been wondering how well the glue joints maintain their strength over time in an airplane like mine. Hopefully the pictures will explain better. Pictures are here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/brokenseat/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Radial engines/types/price
Date: Sep 27, 2008
Michael I am flying a Piet with the Rotec R2800 radial. It performs very nicely and burns about 5.5gph. It weighs over 250 lbs. You will have to contact Rotec Radial Engines for price info, as the dollar has changed since I bought it and they are in Australia. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Radial engines/types/price Looking at all my engine options, what does the Piet. people know about radials for our planes? How about types available and prices? Thank you. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2008
Subject: Small quantities of spruce for sale- Weldwood glue
Steve, Aircraft Spruce has for sale their "bargain bag" of spruce. This consists of a pretty good size bundle, many pieces 5 ft long, of all kinds of spar and cap strip cut-offs that they can't sell. I actually bought two of these along the way and I am so glad I did. I think I paid about $12.00 each for them at the time. I would highly recommend it. I made many many parts from this. Of course you have to have a way to cut and plane them to the size you need. I think Wicks has a similar bundle for sale. I'm glad to hear that the Weldwood Plastic Resin glue held so well. It is the glue that I used to hold the laminations of my prop together. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Small quantities of spruce for sale- Weldwood glue
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2008
RGFuDQoNCkFueSBwaWNzIG9mIHRoZSBwcm9wIHlldD8gSSB3b3VsZCByZWFsbHkgZW5qb3kgc2Vl aW5nIHRoZW0gbWF5YmUgb3RoZXJzIHdvdWxkIGFsc28NCg0KSm9obg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZl cml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0K RnJvbTogSGVsc3BlclNld0Bhb2wuY29tDQoNCkRhdGU6IFN1biwgMjggU2VwIDIwMDggMDg6NTY6 MTkgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdDogU21hbGwgcXVhbnRpdGllcyBvZiBzcHJ1Y2UgZm9yIHNhbGUtIFdlbGR3b29kIGds dWUNCg0KDQpTdGV2ZSwNCiANCkFpcmNyYWZ0IFNwcnVjZSBoYXMgZm9yIHNhbGUgdGhlaXIgImJh cmdhaW4gYmFnIiBvZiBzcHJ1Y2UuIFRoaXMgY29uc2lzdHMgIG9mIA0KYSBwcmV0dHkgZ29vZCBz aXplIGJ1bmRsZSwgbWFueSBwaWVjZXMgNSBmdCBsb25nLCBvZiBhbGwga2luZHMgb2Ygc3BhciBh bmQgIA0KY2FwIHN0cmlwIGN1dC1vZmZzIHRoYXQgdGhleSBjYW4ndCBzZWxsLiBJIGFjdHVhbGx5 IGJvdWdodCB0d28gb2YgdGhlc2UgYWxvbmcgIA0KdGhlIHdheSBhbmQgSSBhbSBzbyBnbGFkIEkg ZGlkLiBJIHRoaW5rIEkgcGFpZCBhYm91dCAkMTIuMDAgZWFjaCBmb3IgdGhlbSBhdCANCnRoZSAg dGltZS4gSSB3b3VsZCBoaWdobHkgcmVjb21tZW5kIGl0LiBJIG1hZGUgbWFueSBtYW55IHBhcnRz IGZyb20gdGhpcy4gT2YgDQpjb3Vyc2UgIHlvdSBoYXZlIHRvIGhhdmUgYSB3YXkgdG8gY3V0IGFu ZCBwbGFuZSB0aGVtIHRvIHRoZSBzaXplIHlvdSBuZWVkLiBJIA0KdGhpbmsgV2lja3MgIGhhcyBh IHNpbWlsYXIgYnVuZGxlIGZvciBzYWxlLg0KIA0KSSdtIGdsYWQgdG8gaGVhciB0aGF0IHRoZSBX ZWxkd29vZCBQbGFzdGljIFJlc2luIGdsdWUgaGVsZCBzbyB3ZWxsLiBJdCBpcyAgDQp0aGUgZ2x1 ZSB0aGF0IEkgdXNlZCB0byBob2xkIHRoZSBsYW1pbmF0aW9ucyBvZiBteSBwcm9wIHRvZ2V0aGVy Lg0KIA0KRGFuICBIZWxzcGVyDQpQb3BsYXIgR3JvdmUsIElMLg0KDQoNCg0KKioqKioqKioqKioq KipMb29raW5nIGZvciBzaW1wbGUgc29sdXRpb25zIHRvIHlvdXIgcmVhbC1saWZlIGZpbmFuY2lh bCANCmNoYWxsZW5nZXM/ICBDaGVjayBvdXQgV2FsbGV0UG9wIGZvciB0aGUgbGF0ZXN0IG5ld3Mg YW5kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCB0aXBzIGFuZCANCmNhbGN1bGF0b3JzLiAgICAgIChodHRwOi8vd3d3 LndhbGxldHBvcC5jb20vP05DSUQ9ZW1sY250dXN3YWxsMDAwMDAwMDEpDQoNCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2008
Subject: Re: Propeller pics soon
John, Stay tuned for the photos of my just completed prop. This for me has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project so far. Last year at OSH I observed an old-timer (Jerry Thornhill from Hampshire IL) do a prop carving demonstration using all power tools- electric chain saw, 7 in. angle grinder w/ rubber backing pad and velcro sanding disc, and then finally a 5" DeWalt vibrating/rotary sander. This is the prop that is on the Bleriot engine that was run-up daily at Osh this year. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to knock off the high spots on the summer wood on the ash that I used. It looks very nice but now has to perform with some good thrust. The dimensions are 76 x 46 pitch. I arrived at this pitch by asking around and looking at the archives. For those who don't know I am using a model A. Yesterday I drilled the bolt holes. Very scary but all worked out OK. Now I have to counter bore out the back side of those holes to accept the Continental-style prop hub that I bought from Ken Perkins. Very exciting times here at this Pietenpol factory. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Propeller pics soon
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2008
RGFuDQoNCkkgYW0gaW1wcmVzc2VkIGNlcnRhaW5seSBhIGd1dHN5IHVuZGVydGFraW5nLiBJIGtu b3cgSSB3b3VsZG4ndCBldmVuIHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IGF0dGVtcHRpbmcgc3VjaCBhIGZlaXQuIFRo YXQgYWxsIGdvZXMgdG8gdGhlIHNraWxsIGFuZCBjb25maWRlbmNlIGxldmVscyBvZiB0aGUgYnVp bGRlci4gSSBjYW4ndCB3YWl0IHRvIHNlZSBpdCwgc291bmRzIGxpa2UgeW91J2xsIGJlIHJlYWR5 IGZvciBPc2hrb3NoIHdpdGggdGltZSB0byBzcGFyZS4gDQoNCkkgYW0gbG9va2luZyBmb3J3YXJk IHRvIHNlZWluZyBpdCBpbiBCcm9kaGVhZCB0aGlzIEp1bHkNCg0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20g bXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQpGcm9tOiBIZWxzcGVyU2V3QGFvbC5jb20NCg0KRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAyOCBTZXAgMjAwOCAw OTo1ODoyMCANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUHJvcGVsbGVyIHBpY3Mgc29vbg0KDQoNCkpvaG4sDQogDQpTdGF5 IHR1bmVkIGZvciB0aGUgcGhvdG9zIG9mIG15IGp1c3QgY29tcGxldGVkIHByb3AuIFRoaXMgZm9y IG1lIGhhcyBiZWVuICANCndpdGhvdXQgYSBkb3VidCB0aGUgbW9zdCByZXdhcmRpbmcgcGFydCBv ZiB0aGUgd2hvbGUgcHJvamVjdCBzbyBmYXIuIExhc3QgeWVhciAgDQphdCBPU0ggSSBvYnNlcnZl ZCBhbiBvbGQtdGltZXIgKEplcnJ5IFRob3JuaGlsbCBmcm9tIEhhbXBzaGlyZSBJTCkgZG8gYSBw cm9wICANCmNhcnZpbmcgZGVtb25zdHJhdGlvbiB1c2luZyBhbGwgcG93ZXIgdG9vbHMtIGVsZWN0 cmljIGNoYWluIHNhdywgNyBpbi4gYW5nbGUgIA0KZ3JpbmRlciB3LyBydWJiZXIgYmFja2luZyBw YWQgYW5kIHZlbGNybyBzYW5kaW5nIGRpc2MsIGFuZCB0aGVuIGZpbmFsbHkgYSA1IiAgDQpEZVdh bHQgdmlicmF0aW5nL3JvdGFyeSBzYW5kZXIuIFRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIHByb3AgdGhhdCBpcyBvbiB0 aGUgQmxlcmlvdCBlbmdpbmUgDQogdGhhdCB3YXMgcnVuLXVwIGRhaWx5IGF0IE9zaCB0aGlzIHll YXIuIFRoZSBvbmx5IGhhbmQgdG9vbCBJIHVzZWQgd2FzIGEgDQptZXRhbCAgZmlsZSB0byBrbm9j ayBvZmYgdGhlIGhpZ2ggc3BvdHMgb24gdGhlIHN1bW1lciB3b29kIG9uIHRoZSBhc2ggdGhhdCBJ IHVzZWQuIA0KSXQgIGxvb2tzIHZlcnkgbmljZSBidXQgbm93IGhhcyB0byBwZXJmb3JtIHdpdGgg c29tZSBnb29kIHRocnVzdC4gVGhlIA0KZGltZW5zaW9ucyBhcmUgIDc2IHggNDYgcGl0Y2guIEkg YXJyaXZlZCBhdCB0aGlzIHBpdGNoIGJ5IGFza2luZyBhcm91bmQgYW5kIGxvb2tpbmcgDQphdCB0 aGUgIGFyY2hpdmVzLiBGb3IgdGhvc2Ugd2hvIGRvbid0IGtub3cgSSBhbSB1c2luZyBhIG1vZGVs IEEuIFllc3RlcmRheSBJIA0KZHJpbGxlZCB0aGUgIGJvbHQgaG9sZXMuIFZlcnkgc2NhcnkgYnV0 IGFsbCB3b3JrZWQgb3V0IE9LLiBOb3cgSSBoYXZlIHRvIGNvdW50ZXIgDQpib3JlIG91dCB0aGUg IGJhY2sgc2lkZSBvZiB0aG9zZSBob2xlcyB0byBhY2NlcHQgdGhlIENvbnRpbmVudGFsLXN0eWxl IHByb3AgDQpodWIgdGhhdCBJIGJvdWdodCAgZnJvbSBLZW4gUGVya2lucy4gVmVyeSBleGNpdGlu ZyB0aW1lcyBoZXJlIGF0IHRoaXMgUGlldGVucG9sIA0KZmFjdG9yeS4gIA0KDQpEYW4gIEhlbHNw ZXINClBvcGxhciBHcm92ZSwgSUwuDQoNCg0KDQoNCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqTG9va2luZyBmb3Ig c2ltcGxlIHNvbHV0aW9ucyB0byB5b3VyIHJlYWwtbGlmZSBmaW5hbmNpYWwgDQpjaGFsbGVuZ2Vz PyAgQ2hlY2sgb3V0IFdhbGxldFBvcCBmb3IgdGhlIGxhdGVzdCBuZXdzIGFuZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlv biwgdGlwcyBhbmQgDQpjYWxjdWxhdG9ycy4gICAgICAoaHR0cDovL3d3dy53YWxsZXRwb3AuY29t Lz9OQ0lEPWVtbGNudHVzd2FsbDAwMDAwMDAxKQ0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Propeller pics soon
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2008
RGFuDQoNCkJ0dyBJIGFtIGluIG5lZWQgb2Ygc29tZSBjdXN0b20gc2VhdCBiZWx0cyBoYXJuZXNz IHN5c3RlbS4gQW55IG9uZSB5b3UgY2FuIHRoaW5rIG9mIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIGluIHRoZSBzZXdp bmcgYnVzaW5lc3MgZmFtaWxpYXIgd2l0aCB0aGUgUGlldCBkZXNpZ24gdGhhdCBjb3VsZCBkbyB0 aGF0IGZvciBtZT8NCg0KUGxlYXNlIGFkdmlzZQ0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpv biBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9t OiBIZWxzcGVyU2V3QGFvbC5jb20NCg0KRGF0ZTogU3VuLCAyOCBTZXAgMjAwOCAwOTo1ODoyMCAN ClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdDogUHJvcGVsbGVyIHBpY3Mgc29vbg0KDQoNCkpvaG4sDQogDQpTdGF5IHR1bmVkIGZv ciB0aGUgcGhvdG9zIG9mIG15IGp1c3QgY29tcGxldGVkIHByb3AuIFRoaXMgZm9yIG1lIGhhcyBi ZWVuICANCndpdGhvdXQgYSBkb3VidCB0aGUgbW9zdCByZXdhcmRpbmcgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgd2hv bGUgcHJvamVjdCBzbyBmYXIuIExhc3QgeWVhciAgDQphdCBPU0ggSSBvYnNlcnZlZCBhbiBvbGQt dGltZXIgKEplcnJ5IFRob3JuaGlsbCBmcm9tIEhhbXBzaGlyZSBJTCkgZG8gYSBwcm9wICANCmNh cnZpbmcgZGVtb25zdHJhdGlvbiB1c2luZyBhbGwgcG93ZXIgdG9vbHMtIGVsZWN0cmljIGNoYWlu IHNhdywgNyBpbi4gYW5nbGUgIA0KZ3JpbmRlciB3LyBydWJiZXIgYmFja2luZyBwYWQgYW5kIHZl bGNybyBzYW5kaW5nIGRpc2MsIGFuZCB0aGVuIGZpbmFsbHkgYSA1IiAgDQpEZVdhbHQgdmlicmF0 aW5nL3JvdGFyeSBzYW5kZXIuIFRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIHByb3AgdGhhdCBpcyBvbiB0aGUgQmxlcmlv dCBlbmdpbmUgDQogdGhhdCB3YXMgcnVuLXVwIGRhaWx5IGF0IE9zaCB0aGlzIHllYXIuIFRoZSBv bmx5IGhhbmQgdG9vbCBJIHVzZWQgd2FzIGEgDQptZXRhbCAgZmlsZSB0byBrbm9jayBvZmYgdGhl IGhpZ2ggc3BvdHMgb24gdGhlIHN1bW1lciB3b29kIG9uIHRoZSBhc2ggdGhhdCBJIHVzZWQuIA0K SXQgIGxvb2tzIHZlcnkgbmljZSBidXQgbm93IGhhcyB0byBwZXJmb3JtIHdpdGggc29tZSBnb29k IHRocnVzdC4gVGhlIA0KZGltZW5zaW9ucyBhcmUgIDc2IHggNDYgcGl0Y2guIEkgYXJyaXZlZCBh dCB0aGlzIHBpdGNoIGJ5IGFza2luZyBhcm91bmQgYW5kIGxvb2tpbmcgDQphdCB0aGUgIGFyY2hp dmVzLiBGb3IgdGhvc2Ugd2hvIGRvbid0IGtub3cgSSBhbSB1c2luZyBhIG1vZGVsIEEuIFllc3Rl cmRheSBJIA0KZHJpbGxlZCB0aGUgIGJvbHQgaG9sZXMuIFZlcnkgc2NhcnkgYnV0IGFsbCB3b3Jr ZWQgb3V0IE9LLiBOb3cgSSBoYXZlIHRvIGNvdW50ZXIgDQpib3JlIG91dCB0aGUgIGJhY2sgc2lk ZSBvZiB0aG9zZSBob2xlcyB0byBhY2NlcHQgdGhlIENvbnRpbmVudGFsLXN0eWxlIHByb3AgDQpo dWIgdGhhdCBJIGJvdWdodCAgZnJvbSBLZW4gUGVya2lucy4gVmVyeSBleGNpdGluZyB0aW1lcyBo ZXJlIGF0IHRoaXMgUGlldGVucG9sIA0KZmFjdG9yeS4gIA0KDQpEYW4gIEhlbHNwZXINClBvcGxh ciBHcm92ZSwgSUwuDQoNCg0KDQoNCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqTG9va2luZyBmb3Igc2ltcGxlIHNv bHV0aW9ucyB0byB5b3VyIHJlYWwtbGlmZSBmaW5hbmNpYWwgDQpjaGFsbGVuZ2VzPyAgQ2hlY2sg b3V0IFdhbGxldFBvcCBmb3IgdGhlIGxhdGVzdCBuZXdzIGFuZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgdGlwcyBh bmQgDQpjYWxjdWxhdG9ycy4gICAgICAoaHR0cDovL3d3dy53YWxsZXRwb3AuY29tLz9OQ0lEPWVt bGNudHVzd2FsbDAwMDAwMDAxKQ0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde)
glue still stronger than spruce Funny thing is your seat was "built to the plans". If you look at drawing #4 the side view shows both front and back seats built exactly the way your broken seat is built. I was nervous that the "Piet Gods" would strike me down when I did the *blasphemous *act of modifying the design to set each end of the front-to-back pieces on top of a vertical support on both of my seats. Rick On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Steve Ruse wrote: > I had an interesting failure on my airplane today. I was taking a 180 > pound passenger up for a ride, and about halfway through our takeoff roll, > the rudder locked in place. I immediately throttled to idle and rolled to a > stop. Turned out his seat had broken going over a bump, and fell directly > on top of the rudder pedals, which then supported all of his weight. > Could've been dangerous during a landing, as I had no rudder control. > > The interesting thing was the mode of failure. The seat was improperly > made, the 1"x1" stringers under the seat that run from front to back on the > seat bottom did not sit ON the rear support. Instead, they butted up > against another 1"x1" that sat on the rear support. They should've been > extended beside the rear stringer, so they would've carried the load all the > way to the rear support. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and > I'll clarify. > > The interesting part is that the glue did not fail, the wood did in almost > all joints. It even split one of the 3/4" x 1" stringers nearly in half. > I've been wondering how well the glue joints maintain their strength over > time in an airplane like mine. Hopefully the pictures will explain better. > > Pictures are here: > http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/brokenseat/ > > Steve Ruse > Norman, OK > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde)
glue still stronger than spruce Sory to hear of your seat-failure.- At least it should be an easy fix. - As far as being a true purist, I say we reserve the right to get smarte r.- It's a great design but some tweaking here and there can go a long wa y (for better or worse).- Just be sure to get all the varnish off before re-gluing anything.- That will be the most uninjoyable part of the repair .- I usually use the side of a good wood chisle with a pulling motion, or a piece of glass to shave off the old finish.- Has anyone had any luck w ith chemical strippers on airplanes?-(for repairing glue joints already v arnished)-The unknown reaction, (if any) to the glue scares me.- Good l uck and keep yer chin up. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: front seat repairs
Date: Sep 28, 2008
The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. Forward impact by the pilot's feet jammed the seat forward and separated some of the joints. When I rebuilt the front seat, I found much the same thing as you guys... the glaring need for some uprights to support the ends of the seat pieces. Since getting into the front cockpit almost invariably involves standing on the front seat, those little uprights are really needed. It's amazing what a couple of 4" long pieces of wood will do. Picture of my seat framing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html, second photo from the bottom, and if you're a Piet purist, save yourself a rise in blood pressure and don't look because my seat is a departure from plans. Oh, and you'll also notice in the picture that 41CC has the tailwheel steering cables run all the way from rudder bar to the tailwheel, as per plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2008
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Oscar, The best part of your seat repair was without a doubt the notation you put on the back. Without His blessings we would all be in trouble. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Date: Sep 28, 2008
I saw in the plans that there was no support for the rear of the seat, and I think it is one of those points where the plans are incomplete. My correction for the plans looks exactly like your fix, I added the two uprights on the sides, as they should be. I also added a "saddle gusset" to the rear of the center brace. I took a number of photos of the seat, but I am on the raod now. I will attach some photos of my fix for the seat when I get home. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com> To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs > The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. Forward impact by the pilot's feet jammed the seat forward and separated some of the joints. When I rebuilt the front seat, I found much the same thing as you guys... the glaring need for some uprights to support the ends of the seat pieces. Since getting into the front cockpit almost invariably involves standing on the front seat, those little uprights are really needed. It's amazing what a couple of 4" long pieces of wood will do. Picture of my seat framing is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html net/piets/repairs/seat.html>, second photo from the bottom, and if you're a Piet purist, save yourself a rise in blood pressure and don't look because my seat is a departure from plans. Oh, and you'll also notice in the picture that 41CC has the tailwheel steering cables run all the way from rudder bar to the tailwheel, as per plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: front seat repairs
Date: Sep 28, 2008
Here is my installation of the front seat.I've never posted a picture before.hope it's not stripped! Front seat rear support. After seeing Oscar's pictures, I think I will add another support to carry the sides. But I did add gussets on the sides and center to help distribute the 'load.' Front supports are wide enough to help carry load. Note: Gussets. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (11 ribs down.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga <mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. Forward impact by the pilot's feet jammed the seat forward and separated some of the joints. When I rebuilt the front seat, I found much the same thing as you guys... the glaring need for some uprights to support the ends of the seat pieces. Since getting into the front cockpit almost invariably involves standing on the front seat, those little uprights are really needed. It's amazing what a couple of 4" long pieces of wood will do. Picture of my seat framing is at
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html, second photo from the bottom, and if you're a Piet purist, save yourself a rise in blood pressure and don't look because my seat is a departure from plans. Oh, and you'll also notice in the picture that 41CC has the tailwheel steering cables run all the way from rudder bar to the tailwheel, as per plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net http://www.matp; <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde)
glue still stronger than spruce
Date: Sep 28, 2008
How much do you need? I might have some extra I can send you. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce As a side note, I now need a very small quantity of 1/4" spruce plywood and a few feet of 1"x1" spruce stock. Where would be a good place to find such a small quantity? Should I just try to find some from a local builder? Thanks, Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Ruse To: Pietenpol List Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde) glue still stronger than spruce I had an interesting failure on my airplane today. I was taking a 180 pound passenger up for a ride, and about halfway through our takeoff roll, the rudder locked in place. I immediately throttled to idle and rolled to a stop. Turned out his seat had broken going over a bump, and fell directly on top of the rudder pedals, which then supported all of his weight. Could've been dangerous during a landing, as I had no rudder control. The interesting thing was the mode of failure. The seat was improperly made, the 1"x1" stringers under the seat that run from front to back on the seat bottom did not sit ON the rear support. Instead, they butted up against another 1"x1" that sat on the rear support. They should've been extended beside the rear stringer, so they would've carried the load all the way to the rear support. I hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I'll clarify. The interesting part is that the glue did not fail, the wood did in almost all joints. It even split one of the 3/4" x 1" stringers nearly in half. I've been wondering how well the glue joints maintain their strength over time in an airplane like mine. Hopefully the pictures will explain better. Pictures are here: http://www.wotelectronics.com/flying/brokenseat/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Paper cutter arrived!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Paper cutter arrived!
(Sorry about the blank post) The paper cutter I purchased from the Michigan State University "Surplus Store" arrived while we were gone this weekend. Sturdy wood table, steel arm for $29 + $11 shipping. I unboxed it this evening and I am very pleased. The table is not perfect (nor did I expect it to be), but it is flat. The blades are actually still relatively sharp. They have surface rust from being in storage, but no pitting. I cut a small test piece of ply, and it worked great. A little clean-up and a light stoning and it will be good as new. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/2897052933/ So, if you are looking to pick up a used paper cutter and can't find one, I would suggest calling your local/regional University or School District, and see if they have a storefront or department that is in charge of disposing of their surplus. A Google search for the same may also get results. Have a good night, Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: 30 year old Weldwood Plastic Resin (ureaformaldehyde)
glue still stronger than spruce Steve: Norman, OK is not that far from Halstead, KS. Try Wiebe Aircraft at 316-835-2417. They work on wood airplanes all the time and have a pretty good stock of spruce and ply that they are willing to sell at very reasonable prices. The quality is extremely good and they will mill to size if necessary. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Paper cutter arrived!
Very cool, Ryan. I think you will find that making gussets this way will pr ove quite easy. - - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cabane Brackets
Fellow Pieter's: - I made my brackets that attach to the fuse where the cabane's will bolt int o. I drilled my holes and bolted the two halves together with the long brac ket to the inside as the plans show. Question: the holes for the attachment are 3/16" as called for in the plans. Is this enough strength for this bra cket? Is anyone using a sleeve in the hole for the bolt to slide through? I t would seem any movement within the hole it would allow for up/down moveme nt of the cabane's making-for a problem down the road...Am I describing t his correctly so everyone understands. The brackets that hold the cabane's to the fuse..... - What is everyone doing here for attachment? - - Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Cabane Brackets
Ken, Follow the plans exactly. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Cabane Brackets
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Ken; I'm not sure if you're talking about the bolts that attach the cabanes to the brackets or the bolts that attach the brackets to the fuselage. If I'm reading it right, you mean the bolts that attach the cabanes to the brackets. On 41CC, they are AN3 and plenty strong for that. However, the cabanes on my airplane have tube bushings welded in where the bolts pass through since the streamline tubing is narrower than the space between the brackets and the tube bushings are needed to hold everything in place. I guess you could do the same thing with spacers or washers but that's how it's done on 41CC. You can sort of see how mine are in this picture where the brace bolts to the fittings: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P6230007.JPG Oscar Zuniga getting ready for Kerrville, TX fly-in on Oct. 11 at Schreiner Field!!! Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Paper cutter arrived!
I'll bet that paper cutter would cut thin aluminum just as well, .020 or le ss, I just cant think of any .020 al pieces on a piet, except maybe wing ro ot farrings.- Never mind just thinking out loud. Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Cabane brackets
Oscar and others......... - Sorry If I was not very clear... - I am talking about the two-bolts that pass thru the inside and outside st eel brackets attached to the wooden upright on the fuse. Did anyone sleeve the holes through the wood to prevent longation or movement? Make sense yet ?.... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
Ken, I can't see those two bolts moving once they are torqued tight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Cabane brackets
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Ken, I'm no structural engineer, but I do stay at Holiday Inns. The brackets rely on compression to keep them from moving. Use the appropriate torque values for those bolts and you will be good. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (11 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets Oscar and others......... Sorry If I was not very clear... I am talking about the two bolts that pass thru the inside and outside steel brackets attached to the wooden upright on the fuse. Did anyone sleeve the holes through the wood to prevent longation or movement? Make sense yet?.... Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
Ken, Another thing to think about is if you sleeve it, you will be removing material (wood) thus removing strength. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
It just appears to me that the bolts are not very big going thru the wood t o hold much. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - --- On Mon, 9/29/08, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 3:26 PM Ken, - I can't see those two bolts moving once they are torqued tight. - Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial cha540686/aol?redi r=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" hrr=http://www .walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out Wa lletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
It just appears to me that the bolts are not very big going thru the wood t o hold much. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - --- On Mon, 9/29/08, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 3:26 PM Ken, - I can't see those two bolts moving once they are torqued tight. - Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial cha540686/aol?redi r=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" hrr=http://www .walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out Wa lletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wheel hubs
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Hi All Does anyone have drawings of the hubs for the wire wheels that I may get a copy of?Or are they in the plans somewhere that I have missed? Thanks in advance Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6837#206837 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Cabane brackets
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Ken, If you are willing to deviate from the norm and follow some practices used in other parts of the world then you might want to look at using bushings made from a product called Tufnol Carp. Some of us here in Australia are using this product to provide a harder bearing surface where the bolts penetrate the longerons and spars. An idea used by the British and required by their LAA (formerly PFA). The source we found is in the UK at the following link. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Fantastic-Plastic_TUFNOL-SRBF_Carp-Rod_W0QQco lZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ10910818QQftidZ2QQtZkm we used 8mm rod for the logerons and 12mm for the spars. Drill and ream to suit the bolt. For what it's worth. JohnW ---- Original Message ---- From: kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:11:36 -0700 (PDT) >Oscar and others......... > >Sorry If I was not very clear... > >I am talking about the twobolts that pass thru the inside and >outside steel brackets attached to the wooden upright on the fuse. >Did anyone sleeve the holes through the wood to prevent longation or >movement? Make sense yet?.... > > >Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cabane Brackets
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Ken, I'm just going to go from memory here, but, unless my memory is completely shot, each cabane strut, under normal loading, only carries about 50 pounds of load. Those bolts holding the cabanes will be nowhere near their limits. The smaller holes drilled in the wood, the better. I'd just go with the plans on this one. Don't recall anyone having problems with this area. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6848#206848 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Carson, It isn't a drawing, but it is an article that describes how to make them: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=56 Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6850#206850 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
Date: Sep 29, 2008
Appearance is deceiving. The engineering isn't. A bolt's shear strength is approximately 60% of it's tensile strength. The AN bolts we use have a tensile strength of 125,000 lb per square inch. A 3/16" AN-3 bolt cross section is 0.0277 sq inches. so each shear point is capable of supporting 3468 lb. There are two brackets per cabane. Not any chance of the bolts shearing The wood shear strength is a little different at this juncture as one bolt is in end shear and the other is "shear across the grain". Across the grain. in the longeron, the "tensile perpendicular to the grain" is 360 lb per square inch. The chart doesn't give an actual shear number unfortunately. Parallel to the grain, in the upright cross member it's 1120 lb per sq inch. Also you are going through two layers of 1/8" hardwood ply. There are at least a couple of Piets with wood cabanes and mine does too. Consider the strength of that cabane joint with one bolt through it. A bolt in this configuration will pull a plug of wood out equal to the width of the bolt. This means we have two "faces" where shear is working. If the bolt is 1" away from the end and the wood is 1" wide then we have two 1" sqare faces, each with a strength of 1120 lb or 2240 lb in total. So how much force is each cabane going to see? Consider a Piet with four cabanes and a max load of 1200 lb. Now we have to consider how much of the total load is seen by the cabanes. Remember, the struts take most of the load as they are just outboard of the halfway point on each panel. Also the upward force distribution is parabolic, the closer you get to the tip the less the wing supports. We have an unequal seesaw with some upward load on the cabanes and most on the outer struts. The area between the strut connection and the cabane sees about 65% of the wing load. So there's a difference of 20%. That's what the cabanes support. On our example that's 20% of 1200 lb or 240 lb distributed among four cabanes. If they all supported equally then each supports 60 lb. They don't.The front takes more but that can't be more than 70 lb. Multiply that estimated 70 lb by your choice of G factor, say 4G, and that strut sees 280 lb. Even if we were to factor in "bounce off the seat" gust loads that single bolt isn't going to see loads anywhere near 2240 lb. Just for the sake of my own irrational fears I've made that joint with three bolts 1" away from each other. :-) So applying the above to the fuselage bolts it becomes evident, just by eyeball, that any fears of failure are ungrounded. If that isn't enough to convince then consider the venerable and long lived DC-3, with a pair of 1/2" bolts in the landing gear knee. Of course all I've done is support the fact that damn near every Piet ever flown was built with those two bolts in the fuselage. Right? :-) Clif "The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions." (Leonardo da Vinci) ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets It just appears to me that the bolts are not very big going thru the wood to hold much. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --- On Mon, 9/29/08, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 3:26 PM Ken, I can't see those two bolts moving once they are torqued tight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial cha540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall000000 01" hrr=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/28/2008 1:30 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
Carson, Go to westcoastpiet.com and look at the photos under Santiago Morete. He has photos and drawings there. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Uvalde, TX airport
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Gene; When I made my first solo x-c in a Cessna 150/150 "Texas Taildragger" many moons ago, the first leg was from Laredo International to Uvalde, just over the required 100NM distance for the leg. I was shaking when I got out of the airplane to have the FBO attendant sign my logbook. Believe me, there isn't much to see in those 100NM of deep south Texas brush country and there was even less to see 27 years ago. Although I hadn't gotten lost or had any problems, it was quite a thing to be out on my own. I navigated there using the ADF and had no problems. My second leg was from Uvalde to Cotulla, TX... another very friendly place, in case you find yourself there. I took my Private Pilot written exam sitting in the FSS at Cotulla over 40 years ago. The weather specialist administered the exam and watched me out of the corner of his eye ;o) I have flown in and fueled 41CC a couple of times in Cotulla since I've had the airplane. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Thanks For the info I think I will have a crack at them now. On another note Dan where did you get your brake drum if that's what it is called.I was going to start another post to ask if anyone knew but you would be the best to ask. Thanks carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6887#206887 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
Clif, - You have clearly given me confidence in this area. I will keep to plans and forge ahead. Thanks for the great information and time to respond. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Clif Dawson wrote: From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 11:54 PM Appearance is deceiving. The engineering isn't. A bolt's shear strength is approximately 60% of it's tensile strength. - The AN bolts we use have a tensile strength of 125,000 lb per square inch. A 3/16" AN-3 bolt cross section is 0.0277 sq inches. so each shear point is capable of supporting 3468 lb. There are two brackets per cabane. Not any chance of the bolts shearing - The wood shear strength is a little different at this juncture as one bolt is in end shear and the other is "shear across the grain". - Across the grain. in the longeron, the "tensile perpendicular to the grain" is 360 lb per square inch. The chart doesn't give an actual shear number unfortunately. - Parallel to the grain, in the upright cross member it's 1120 lb per sq inch. - Also you are going through two layers of 1/8" hardwood ply. - There are at least a couple of Piets with wood cabanes and mine does too. Consider the strength of that cabane joint with one bolt through it. A bolt in this configuration will pull a plug of wood out equal to the width of the bolt. This means we have two "faces" where shear is working. - If the bolt is 1" away from the end and the wood is 1" wide then we have two 1" sqare faces, each with a strength of 1120 lb or 2240 lb in total. - So how much force-is each cabane going to see? - Consider a Piet with four cabanes and a max load of 1200 lb. Now we have to consider how much of the total load is seen by the cabanes. Remember, the struts take most of the load as they are just outboard of the halfway point on each panel. Also the upward force distribution is parabolic, the closer you get to the tip the less the wing supports. We have an unequal seesaw with some upward load on the cabanes and most on the outer struts. - The area between the strut connection and the cabane sees about 65% of the wing load. So there's a difference of 20%. That's what the cabanes support. On our example that's 20% of 1200 lb or 240 lb distributed among four cabanes. - If they all supported equally then each supports 60 lb. They don't.The front takes more but that can't be more than 70 lb. - Multiply that estimated 70 lb by your choice of G factor, say 4G, and that strut sees 280 lb. Even if we were to factor in "bounce off the seat" gust loads that single bolt isn't going to see loads anywhere near 2240 lb. - Just for the sake of my own irrational fears I've made that joint with three bolts 1" away from each other. :-) - So applying the above to the fuselage bolts it becomes evident, just by eyeball, that any fears of failure are ungrounded. - If that isn't enough to convince then consider the venerable and long lived DC-3, with a-pair of-1/2" bolts in the landing gear knee. - Of course all I've done is support the fact that damn near every Piet ever flown was built with those two bolts in the fuselage. Right?- :-) - Clif - "The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions." (Leonardo d a Vinci) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets It just appears to me that the bolts are not very big going thru the wood t o hold much. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP - --- On Mon, 9/29/08, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 3:26 PM Ken, - I can't see those two bolts moving once they are torqued tight. - Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial cha540686/aol?redi r=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" hrr=http://www .walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out Wa lletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com /contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D - - Release Date: 9/28/2008 1:30 PM =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
Carson, Those documents/drawings under the name of Santiago Morete are actually authored by me. I was trying to help him do the same thing you want to do. I had already gone through this whole process so I sent him all this info. I would recommend studying Santiago's photos because he improved on my ideas. In answer to your question about the drums, I went into great detail with Santiago on this, that is why I am directing you to look at the documents/drawings that he has posted under his name at westcoastpiet.com. After you study all that, feel free to ask me additional questions. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
Date: Sep 30, 2008
I have tried on several occasions to open those documents on westcoastpiet.com, and have never been successful. I get the first one to open, but not either of the other two. Anyone else have this same problem, or is it just me? Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheel hubs Carson, Those documents/drawings under the name of Santiago Morete are actually authored by me. I was trying to help him do the same thing you want to do. I had already gone through this whole process so I sent him all this info. I would recommend studying Santiago's photos because he improved on my ideas. In answer to your question about the drums, I went into great detail with Santiago on this, that is why I am directing you to look at the documents/drawings that he has posted under his name at westcoastpiet.com. After you study all that, feel free to ask me additional questions. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
They worked fine for me, Bill. Maybe try saving them to your computer before opening them (instead of trying to open them in the browser). On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Bill Church wrote: > I have tried on several occasions to open those documents on > westcoastpiet.com, and have never been successful. > I get the first one to open, but not either of the other two. Anyone else > have this same problem, or is it just me? > > Bill C > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
Bill, Those files open fine for me. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Bill, Those all appear to be Word Docs, although the last two are drawings. They opened OK for me. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (11 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 8:18 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheel hubs I have tried on several occasions to open those documents on westcoastpiet.com, and have never been successful. I get the first one to open, but not either of the other two. Anyone else have this same problem, or is it just me? Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HelsperSew(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wheel hubs Carson, Those documents/drawings under the name of Santiago Morete are actually authored by me. I was trying to help him do the same thing you want to do. I had already gone through this whole process so I sent him all this info. I would recommend studying Santiago's photos because he improved on my ideas. In answer to your question about the drums, I went into great detail with Santiago on this, that is why I am directing you to look at the documents/drawings that he has posted under his name at westcoastpiet.com. After you study all that, feel free to ask me additional questions. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Still no luck. I don't know. Must be my computer. I'll try on a different machine. Thanks, guys. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wheel hubs
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Thanks Dan I have read it again this morning,You made them yourself thats why I cant find them anywhere to buy.I had no trouble opening the files. Thanks again Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6953#206953 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Oscar, Enjoyed looking at your description of your front seat. I got a chance to look at mine this afternoon. I've just started covering my tail surfaces, and have the fuselage nearly ready to cover. I'm sure I built my front seat to the plans, but as built it sure looks like it could fail as the originator of this string described. I have cut-outs similar to yours to give access to the rudder bar. Think I might need to reinforce a little here, although I'm a long way from taking passengers. Really liked your note on the seat bottom! Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
Gary, Gary, Its supposed to be Holiday Express! So; how is your Piet coming? Cheers, Jim On Sep 29, 2008, gboothe5(at)comcast.net wrote: Ken, I’m no structural engineer, but I do stay at Holiday Inns. The brackets rely on compression to keep them from moving. Use the appropriate torque values for those bolts and you will be good. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2008
Subject: Assembling hydraulic hoses
I've been trying all night to screw the nipple from the Aeroquip 491 fitting onto the cut end of some Aeroquip 303 hose to make up brake hoses. Can't seem to get the hose to screw all the way into the fitting. Any tips or tricks on how to get this on. My fingers are raw from pushing and twisting the hose. Tried recutting the hose several times for a clean start - no luck. Matt Paxton **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Assembling hydraulic hoses
Matt, Don't take this as the gospel. I am trying to dredge up memories from about 8 years ago (that's depressing). I think we gave the nipple and the inside of the hose a shot of lube, in that case Aero-Kroil. I know something was applied, and I'm pretty sure that was it. Either way, I would imagine a WD-40/Marvel/PB Blaster would work. But you sure can't beat the oil that creeps! Ryan On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:17 PM, wrote: > I've been trying all night to screw the nipple from the Aeroquip 491 > fitting onto the cut end of some Aeroquip 303 hose to make up brake hoses. > Can't seem to get the hose to screw all the way into the fitting. Any tips > or tricks on how to get this on. My fingers are raw from pushing and > twisting the hose. Tried recutting the hose several times for a clean start > - no luck. > > Matt Paxton > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cabane brackets
Date: Sep 30, 2008
Your welcome Ken. After all, it's one of the OTHER things this list is all about. He said with a silly grin. :-) And I do have ONE good story. It's a bit long. It's in two parts spanning three years. It has left four guys wondering "How did he do THAT?". :-) Clif Clif, You have clearly given me confidence in this area. I will keep to plans and forge ahead. Thanks for the great information and time to respond. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP Of course all I've done is support the fact that damn near every Piet ever flown was built with those two bolts in the fuselage. Right? :-) Clif "The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions." (Leonardo da Vinci) ----- Original Message ----- From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets It just appears to me that the bolts are not very big going thru the wood to hold much. Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --- On Mon, 9/29/08, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote: From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com <HelsperSew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane brackets To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 3:26 PM Ken, I can't see those two bolts moving once they are torqued tight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial cha540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall000000 01" hrr=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D -------------------------------------------------------------------- - - Release Date: 9/28/2008 1:30 PM 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/30/2008 7:08 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Ben With the limited travel required of the rudder bar there is plenty of room to add four small vertical pieces under the four corners of the seat (may have to sand off some varnish first though). Rick On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > Oscar, > Enjoyed looking at your description of your front seat. I got a chance to > look at mine this afternoon. I've just started covering my tail surfaces, > and have the fuselage nearly ready to cover. I'm sure I built my front seat > to the plans, but as built it sure looks like it could fail as the > originator of this string described. I have cut-outs similar to yours to > give access to the rudder bar. Think I might need to reinforce a little > here, although I'm a long way from taking passengers. Really liked your > note on the seat bottom! > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > >> > >> >> >> The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. >> > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2008
Subject: RE: Aeroquip hydraulic hose fittings
Thanks, Ryan. Actually, it's the larger sleeve that fits over the end of the hose that I'm having trouble with. I haven't even gotten to where you screw the nipple and the attachment fitting into the sleeve and the inside of the hose. I figure with lube, and the ability to chuck that sleeve into the vise and then turn the attachment/nipple with the mandrel I got, that would go easier. My mistake on the terminology of what I was wrestling with. Matt From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Assembling hydraulic hoses Matt, Don't take this as the gospel. I am trying to dredge up memories from about 8 years ago (that's depressing). I think we gave the nipple and the inside of the hose a shot of lube, in that case Aero-Kroil. I know something was applied, and I'm pretty sure that was it. Either way, I would imagine a WD-40/Marvel/PB Blaster would work. But you sure can't beat the oil that creeps! Ryan On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:17 PM, wrote: > I've been trying all night to screw the nipple from the Aeroquip 491 > fitting onto the cut end of some Aeroquip 303 hose to make up brake hoses. > Can't seem to get the hose to screw all the way into the fitting. Any tips > or tricks on how to get this on. My fingers are raw from pushing and > twisting the hose. Tried recutting the hose several times for a clean start > - no luck. > > Matt Paxton **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: "G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Aeroquip hydraulic hose fittings
Matt Did you notice that the larger sleeve is left hand thread? Woodflier(at)aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Ryan. Actually, it's the larger sleeve that fits over the end > of the hose that I'm having trouble with. I haven't even gotten to > where you screw the nipple and the attachment fitting into the sleeve > and the inside of the hose. I figure with lube, and the ability to > chuck that sleeve into the vise and then turn the attachment/nipple > with the mandrel I got, that would go easier. My mistake on the > US > From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Assembling hydraulic hoses > > Matt, > > Don't take this as the gospel. I am trying to dredge up memories from > about > 8 years ago (that's depressing). I think we gave the nipple and the > inside > of the hose a shot of lube, in that case Aero-Kroil. I know something > was > applied, and I'm pretty sure that was it. Either way, I would imagine > a > WD-40/Marvel/PB Blaster would work. But you sure can't beat the oil > that > creeps! > > Ryan > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:17 PM, wrote: > > > I've been trying all night to screw the nipple from the Aeroquip > 491 > > fitting onto the cut end of some Aeroquip 303 hose to make up brake > hoses. > > Can't seem to get the hose to screw all the way into the fitting. > Any tips > > or tricks on how to get this on. My fingers are raw from pushing and > > > twisting the hose. Tried recutting the hose several times for a > clean start > > - no luck. > > > > Matt Paxton > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > chal40686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" > hre=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" > target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and calculators. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Date: Oct 01, 2008
The attaches shows my front seat. The side rails are hardwood, hickory I think. The uprights are flared at the top so the side rails actually sit on them, and there are double front and back end rails to give extra support to the ply seat bottom. I left out the middle support since I had all the extra beef-up. Skip > [Original Message] > From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> > To: > Date: 9/30/2008 9:37:12 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs > > > Oscar, > > Enjoyed looking at your description of your front seat. I got a chance > to look at mine this afternoon. I've just started covering my tail > surfaces, and have the fuselage nearly ready to cover. I'm sure I built > my front seat to the plans, but as built it sure looks like it could > fail as the originator of this string described. I have cut-outs > similar to yours to give access to the rudder bar. Think I might need > to reinforce a little here, although I'm a long way from taking > passengers. Really liked your note on the seat bottom! > > Ben Charvet > Mims, Fl > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > > > The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Lee Bottom fly-in
Date: Oct 01, 2008
Two guys from our field here in West Virginia drove over to the fly-in at Lee Bottom last weekend. They came back raving about seeing 3 continental Piets, two of them the prettiest Piets they ever saw, I couldn't guess from the description, but when they showed me the pictures, I should have known, Mike Cuy and Don Emch. Good going guys! Skip skipgadd(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roy Brooks <n900ml(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol on Barnstormers?
Date: Oct 01, 2008
As many of you know=2C I'm too arthritic=2C stove-up=2C decrepit to finish my Piet project and I was looking on Barnstormers and came across the below listed ad. Does anybody on this list know anything about this airplane? Looks OK from the pictures=2C but has this weird thing hanging from the belly and makes m e nervous=2C thinking this is the guy from the movie=2C "No Country For Old Men" and he hauls that air plunger thingamabob under the Piet so he can sn eak up to GN-1 pilots and pop them in the medula-oblongonta or something? My other concern is this airplane is tied-down outside and no way in Hello would I buy a fabric/wooden airplane that has been sitting outside exposed to the elements. Already been screwed once by a lying crook in Georgi@. Any tips=2C advice=2C free beer or unwanted winning PowerBall tickets is/ar e appreciated. Sterling Knot-2-Shabby Airport=2C 5TA6 (NOTAMS=2C fresh/moist cowchips on runway. C heck breaking action and "stink-factor" if landing in an open cockpit airpl ane.) Home of the original TACO guy PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER - $16=2C000 - ACCEPTING OFFERS - Classic 2-place Pietenpol Air Camper Built in 1979. Great running Continental A-65 with a brand new MA3-SPA carburetor. Last Annual May 2008. 15 gallon usable at around 4.5gallon/hr. Overall an amazing 2seat open cockpit taildragger that is inexpensive to fly. Contact to setup a inspection/familiarization flight. Located in San Luis Obispo Ca. (SBP). - Contact Edward L. Clements=2C Owner - located Morro Bay=2C CA U SA - Telephone: 970-261-6394 . 805-772-5351 - Posted September 28=2C 2008 _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Hey Skip That first picture looks kinda like one of those square toilet seats you see over in Europe. You mount a bed pan under there and you may have an excellent solution to those bladder and gasto-intestinal problems we talk about having all the time on those long flights. Very nice work. Rick On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Skip Gadd wrote: > The attaches shows my front seat. The side rails are hardwood, hickory I > think. The uprights are flared at the top so the side rails actually sit on > them, and there are double front and back end rails to give extra support > to the ply seat bottom. I left out the middle support since I had all the > extra beef-up. > Skip > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> > > To: > > Date: 9/30/2008 9:37:12 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs > > > bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> > > > > Oscar, > > > > Enjoyed looking at your description of your front seat. I got a chance > > to look at mine this afternoon. I've just started covering my tail > > surfaces, and have the fuselage nearly ready to cover. I'm sure I built > > my front seat to the plans, but as built it sure looks like it could > > fail as the originator of this string described. I have cut-outs > > similar to yours to give access to the rudder bar. Think I might need > > to reinforce a little here, although I'm a long way from taking > > passengers. Really liked your note on the seat bottom! > > > > Ben Charvet > > Mims, Fl > > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The front seat in 41CC failed due to the nose-over, in a peculiar way. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2008
From: Gene Hubbard <enhubbard(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Aeroquip hydraulic hose fittings
My memory, also from a few years ago, is that it's easy to overtighten the outer sleve and make it impossible to get the inner nipple inserted. The instructions say to back off a quarter turn on the socket and they mean it. Woodflier(at)aol.com wrote: > Thanks, Ryan. Actually, it's the larger sleeve that fits over the end > of the hose that I'm having trouble with. I haven't even gotten to > where you screw the nipple and the attachment fitting into the sleeve > and the inside of the hose. I figure with lube, and the ability to > chuck that sleeve into the vise and then turn the attachment/nipple > with the mandrel I got, that would go easier. My mistake on the > terminology of what I was wrestling with. > > Matt > > From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Assembling hydraulic hoses > > Matt, > > Don't take this as the gospel. I am trying to dredge up memories from > about > 8 years ago (that's depressing). I think we gave the nipple and the inside > of the hose a shot of lube, in that case Aero-Kroil. I know something was > applied, and I'm pretty sure that was it. Either way, I would imagine a > WD-40/Marvel/PB Blaster would work. But you sure can't beat the oil that > creeps! > > Ryan > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:17 PM, wrote: > > > I've been trying all night to screw the nipple from the Aeroquip 491 > > fitting onto the cut end of some Aeroquip 303 hose to make up brake > hoses. > > Can't seem to get the hose to screw all the way into the fitting. > Any tips > > or tricks on how to get this on. My fingers are raw from pushing and > > twisting the hose. Tried recutting the hose several times for a > clean start > > - no luck. > > > > Matt Paxton > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > chal40686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" > hre=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001" > target="_blank">Check out WalletPop for the latest news and > information, tips and calculators. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Aileron Hinge
Date: Oct 01, 2008
I ready to mount my aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I plan on using flat head machine screws with a 100 deg. bevel as a number of others have done. My question is what size? If I were using hex head bolts or round head screws, I'm sure that 6-32's would be OK. With the countersunk heads do I need to go to an 8-32 or even a 10-32 to make sure the heads hold in the aluminum? Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, In ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinge
Date: Oct 01, 2008
I used 8-32 and they worked well for me. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Schreiber To: pietenpol-list Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge I ready to mount my aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I plan on using flat head machine screws with a 100 deg. bevel as a number of others have done. My question is what size? If I were using hex head bolts or round head screws, I'm sure that 6-32's would be OK. With the countersunk heads do I need to go to an 8-32 or even a 10-32 to make sure the heads hold in the aluminum? Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, In ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron Hinge
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Rich, I too used 8-32. I countersunk only about =BD the head, which left me plenty of clearance. Make sure you offset the holes so the head won't hit when the hinge is closed. I used three screws between each rib. Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com <http://www.thepalmergroup.com/> This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge I ready to mount my aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I plan on using flat head machine screws with a 100 deg. bevel as a number of others have done. My question is what size? If I were using hex head bolts or round head screws, I'm sure that 6-32's would be OK. With the countersunk heads do I need to go to an 8-32 or even a 10-32 to make sure the heads hold in the aluminum? Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, In ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Date: Oct 02, 2008
I'm one step ahead of you Rick ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland Sent: 10/1/2008 10:43:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs Hey Skip That first picture looks kinda like one of those square toilet seats you see over in Europe. You mount a bed pan under there and you may have an excellent solution to those bladder and gasto-intestinal problems we talk about having all the time on those long flights. Rick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Aileron Hinge
Date: Oct 02, 2008
The "secret" here is fastener spacing. If you use smaller fasteners, you need to use more of them, and space them closer together. A #6 screw will have about 70% of the load carrying capacity of a #8 screw (based on cross-sectional area). But these screws are not really under a lot of stress. The limiting factor here is really going to be the screw head making contact with the hinge. And since the hinge thickness is less than the depth of the countersunk screw head, it won't really make any difference whether you use a #6, #8, #10 or even 1/4" bolts for that matter. All you have to work with is the thickness of the hinge leaf, which is probably only .04" or .05". Using 100 degree flat head screws is definitely an improvement over standard 80 degree screws. Another option is to use a low profile screw head, such as a washer head or truss head screw (these are not countersunk). In #6 or #8 size, the height of the screw head will be approximately the same as the diameter of the hinge pin (and thus, also the same as the gap between the leaves of the hinge when closed). This type of screw is much better suited to this application, where the countersunk screw head cannot possibly be used to it's full potential (due to limited thickness of the material being countersunk). In this case it is important to stagger the holes on opposing leaves of the hinge, to avoid having the screw heads collide when the hinge is closed. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge I ready to mount my aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I plan on using flat head machine screws with a 100 deg. bevel as a number of others have done. My question is what size? If I were using hex head bolts or round head screws, I'm sure that 6-32's would be OK. With the countersunk heads do I need to go to an 8-32 or even a 10-32 to make sure the heads hold in the aluminum? Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, In ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Correction: Lee Bottom fly-in
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Skip, That is a phenomenal fly-in with many gorgeous antique and homebuilts showing up. Lots of classics too like Champs, Luscombes and Cubs. A DC-3 flew in (Ron Alexander's Poly Fiber DC-3) and a Lockheed Electra Junior. There was a gorgeous turbine Grumman Goose too. Very scenic airport. For anyone who would like to find out more about Lee Bottom Flying Field go here: http://www.leebottom.com/ R.T. (Robert) Searfoss and his intrepid and very kind wife accompanied him in his Pietenpol for the flight from Syracuse, Indiana. Don Emch was not present. Here is a photo of Robert's nice Pietenpol which he brought to the 2007 Brodhead Pietenpol Fly-In. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: front seat repairs
Dang Skip, is there no end to the ingenuity of Piet builders? You are a genius. On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 8:35 AM, Skip Gadd wrote: > I'm one step ahead of you Rick ;o) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* 10/1/2008 10:43:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: front seat repairs > > Hey Skip > > That first picture looks kinda like one of those square toilet seats you > see over in Europe. You mount a bed pan under there and you may have an > excellent solution to those bladder and gasto-intestinal problems we talk > about having all the time on those long flights. > > Rick > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Correction: Lee Bottom fly-in
Date: Oct 02, 2008
Thanks Mike, my mistake. Roberts Piet is a beauty. Did you meet the guy with the yellow Piet? Skip ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Correction: Lee Bottom fly-in
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 02, 2008
I wanted sooo bad to go down there last weekend. I even planned out a two leg flight. Some year I really want to make it. It's great to see there was a cool representation of Piets there! Oh well.....someday.... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7204#207204 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Aileron hinge screws
Date: Oct 02, 2008
Thanks Bill and Jack for the response. I think I will go with 8-32 washer head screws. I did think of only partially counter sinking the flat head screws, but they would probably wind up being as high above the hinge as the washer head screw. Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Yellow Piet at Lee Bottom Flying Field
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Skip, group, The yellow 'Piet' was a mish-mash of most everything except Pietenpol. Actually nothing was Pietenpol that I could see. The only thing close was the fuselage and that was all GN-1. The airplane was a lead sled with more crap and weight than you could imagine. It looked pretty but other than that you had to have two very skinny people in there for it to clear the soybean field at the north end of the runway there. A young couple from IN flew it in and I spoke with him briefly. He told me that the owner/builder never has flown it but lets this younger guy fly it quite often. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Aileron Hinge, counter sinking
One thing to watch out for,(at least as a general rule in aircraft sheetmet al practices)-Do Not counter sink as far as to "knife edge" the hole.- In other words, Make sure the depth of the counter sink doesn't go completl y through the thickness of the hinge.- It will wear out the holes and can cause cracks, and leaves the material connection-weak espesially in tens ion.- Dont worry too much about having the screws flush with the pianno h inge, the bolt heads on the aileron horn stick out any way.- - Just my 2 Cents Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Aileron Hinge, counter sinking
Date: Oct 03, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Good catch, Shad Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge, counter sinking One thing to watch out for,(at least as a general rule in aircraft sheetmetal practices) Do Not counter sink as far as to "knife edge" the hole. In other words, Make sure the depth of the counter sink doesn't go completly through the thickness of the hinge. It will wear out the holes and can cause cracks, and leaves the material connection weak espesially in tension. Dont worry too much about having the screws flush with the pianno hinge, the bolt heads on the aileron horn stick out any way. Just my 2 Cents Shad _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Latex paint status report
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Latex paint status report
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Rick; there was nothing in your email. Inquiring minds want to hear your update on latex paint; thanks. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Date: Oct 05, 2008
If I am building the 3-piece wing, do I need to build 6 ribs with the additional bracing, instead of two as called for on the plans? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Thats what I did, with 1/16" ply sheeting on the outside of the butt ribs of the two wing halves and the outside two ribs on the center section. Rick Schreiber > [Original Message] > From: <catdesigns(at)att.net> > To: > Date: 10/5/2008 5:37:02 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question > > > If I am building the 3-piece wing, do I need to build 6 ribs with the > additional bracing, instead of two as called for on the plans? > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Ditto. Some say the 1/16 ply on one side of the six "outside" ribs is not needed but others say it makes covering the ends easier (and with very little extra weight). Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Richard Schreiber wrote: > lmforge(at)earthlink.net> > > Thats what I did, with 1/16" ply sheeting on the outside of the butt ribs > of the two wing halves and the outside two ribs on the center section. > > Rick Schreiber > > > > [Original Message] > > From: <catdesigns(at)att.net> > > To: > > Date: 10/5/2008 5:37:02 PM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question > > > > > > If I am building the 3-piece wing, do I need to build 6 ribs with the > > additional bracing, instead of two as called for on the plans? > > > > Chris Tracy > > Sacramento, Ca > > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Latex paint status report
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Latex status report (again)
For anyone thinking of using Latex paint on their Piet - I screwed a test panel to a fence post three years ago facing true South. The panel was covered with medium weight fabric attached with polytak. One side was finished with one coat of Poly Brush and three coats of Sherwin Williams yellow gloss exterior house paint (the second from the highest quality grade) the other side with four coats of latex only(all brushed on). I live in Colorado which has over 300 sunny days a year at 6700 ft. That results in about 25% more UV radiation than sea level. Anyhow, a punch test was done a couple of weeks ago on both sides of the panel, and the results: Side with one coat poly brush and three latex - three punches went through at around 80 Side with four coats of latex only - three punches would not punch through at the max range of the punch tester. In addition the finish on the panel looks just as good today as it did when I put it out there three years ago. Since this message doesn't come through when I attach the pictures I will try sending them separately. Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Latex status report pictures - 1
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Latex status report pictures - 2
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Latex status report pictures - 3
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: elevator cables: in good company
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Just getting around to reading some of my magazines and gazing at the gorgeous Tiger Moth on the cover of the May issue of Sport Aviation, it dawned on me that the elevator cables on that beautiful airplane are rubbing on the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, just like the Pietenpol. Who says Mr. Pietenpol made a mistake in the cable geometry?!!! ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC, with elevator cables proudly rubbing the LE of the HS San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Thanks Guys, it sounds like I need to make 4 more. One clarification. I think I only need the plywood on the two center section and the two inner wing panel ribs. Basically the 4 new ones needed because if the 3-piece design. Is this correct? Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question Ditto. Some say the 1/16 ply on one side of the six "outside" ribs is not needed but others say it makes covering the ends easier (and with very little extra weight). Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Richard Schreiber wrote: Thats what I did, with 1/16" ply sheeting on the outside of the butt ribs of the two wing halves and the outside two ribs on the center section. Rick Schreiber > [Original Message] > From: <catdesigns(at)att.net> > To: > Date: 10/5/2008 5:37:02 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question > > > If I am building the 3-piece wing, do I need to build 6 ribs with the > additional bracing, instead of two as called for on the plans? > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > > > > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: charles loomis <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Latex status report pictures - 3
I'm very interested in this test, but the server kicked the pics again, what about posting them in the Yahoo, Pietenpol group? Charley --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Rick Holland wrote: > From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Latex status report pictures - 3 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 10:40 AM > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Chris, As I read it, 6 total ribs with the reinforcements for the 3-piece wing. One at the end of each wing panel (total of 2), one at the root of each wing panel (total of 2), one each at the outboard ends of the center section (total of 2). If you choose to skin the wing root and center section ribs, then you would be adding the plywood to 4 out of those 6 ribs. As viewed from the pilot's seat, 2 ribs would have the plywood on the right side (for the left wing panel root and the right side of the center section), and 2 ribs would have plywood on the left side (for the right wing panel root and the left side of the center section). If that makes sense... :P This may be a stupid question, but for clarification: if you decide to skin the ribs you would omit the gussets from that side, and instead apply 3 large "skins". One from leading edge of the rib to the forward side of the front spar, one from the rear side of the front spar to the front side of the rear spar, and finally one from the rear side of the rear spar to the trailing edge of the rib. If holes need to be cut for cables, etc, you would do so. Would that be the correct basic procedure? Ryan On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 10:15 PM, wrote: > Thanks Guys, it sounds like I need to make 4 more. One clarification. I > think I only need the plywood on the two center section and the two inner > wing panel ribs. Basically the 4 new ones needed because if the 3-piece > design. Is this correct? > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Latex status report pictures - 3
Date: Oct 05, 2008
Rick, send them to me and I will put them on my web page. Chris Tracy Sacramento, Ca Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Latex status report pictures - 3 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 10/05/08
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Hi all Sorry butTiger Moth elevator cables did not rub on the top of the tail plane , they were joined to a rod which went thru a bearing tube which was bolted to the top of the tail plane this had to be greased. Have sent several posts re Tufnol bushes for holes thru longerons for metal fittings these have not appeared. Now making cabanes for the C/S great fun. Regards Graham Hewitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Latex status report pictures - 3
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Thank you for the correction, six reinforced ribs and only four of those with 1/16" ply on one side. Rick On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 9:15 PM, wrote: > Thanks Guys, it sounds like I need to make 4 more. One clarification. I > think I only need the plywood on the two center section and the two inner > wing panel ribs. Basically the 4 new ones needed because if the 3-piece > design. Is this correct? > > Chris Tracy > Sacramento, Ca > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rick Holland > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:16 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question > > Ditto. Some say the 1/16 ply on one side of the six "outside" ribs is not > needed but others say it makes covering the ends easier (and with very > little extra weight). > > Rick > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Richard Schreiber wrote: > >> lmforge(at)earthlink.net> >> >> Thats what I did, with 1/16" ply sheeting on the outside of the butt ribs >> of the two wing halves and the outside two ribs on the center section. >> >> Rick Schreiber >> >> >> > [Original Message] >> > From: <catdesigns(at)att.net> >> > To: >> > Date: 10/5/2008 5:37:02 PM >> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question >> > >> > >> > If I am building the 3-piece wing, do I need to build 6 ribs with the >> > additional bracing, instead of two as called for on the plans? >> > >> > Chris Tracy >> > Sacramento, Ca >> > Website at http://www.WestCoastPiet.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
Not stupid, correct. > > > This may be a stupid question, but for clarification: if you decide to skin > the ribs you would omit the gussets from that side, and instead apply 3 > large "skins". One from leading edge of the rib to the forward side of the > front spar, one from the rear side of the front spar to the front side of > the rear spar, and finally one from the rear side of the rear spar to the > trailing edge of the rib. If holes need to be cut for cables, etc, you would > do so. Would that be the correct basic procedure? > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Latex paint test
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Rick was kind enough to send me his photos on the latex paint test and I've put them up on a webpage along with his narrative to go with it. I edited some of it (hope you don't mind, Rick). It's at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/latex.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: elevator cables: in good company
Date: Oct 06, 2008
I believe the routing of the Tiger Moth elevator cables is such that the cable would ALWAYS make contact with the top of the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, not just when the cables are slack (as on the Pietenpol), thus the need for a support for the cable. Here are a couple of links to photos that clearly show the cable support mentioned by Graham. I'm sure if you look closely again at the photos in the Sport Aviation article, you'll see them there, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tiger_cables.JPG http://picasaweb.google.com/louisrbourque/VintageWingsOfCanada#5220117080170 279010 Bill C. --> Hi all Sorry butTiger Moth elevator cables did not rub on the top of the tail plane , they were joined to a rod which went thru a bearing tube which was bolted to the top of the tail plane this had to be greased. Regards Graham Hewitt -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 10:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: elevator cables: in good company --> Just getting around to reading some of my magazines and gazing at the gorgeous Tiger Moth on the cover of the May issue of Sport Aviation, it dawned on me that the elevator cables on that beautiful airplane are rubbing on the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, just like the Pietenpol. Who says Mr. Pietenpol made a mistake in the cable geometry?!!! ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC, with elevator cables proudly rubbing the LE of the HS San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Johns Piet builders prayer
I came up with this one today and I felt moved to share it with the Piet Builders. I think its fitting, or that during this weekend there was just too much saw dust in the air to think straight. I may engrave it on a plaque for my shop as it captures the essence of the build. Spent the weekend laying out the tail feathers and cutting edge material for leading and trailing edges, a lot of time and a lot of router yields a bunch of scrap lumber and loads of saw dust, shavings and chip to clean up. It sue felt good to get back to the important things in life like makin sawdust! God its great, God its good, Building my Piet from glue and wood By these hands, made my cheap tools dead I pray to God for good ones instead! John **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Latex status report pictures - 3
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 06, 2008
There is a yahoo pietenpol group? News to me John ------Original Message------ From: charles loomis Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Oct 5, 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Latex status report pictures - 3 I'm very interested in this test, but the server kicked the pics again, what about posting them in the Yahoo, Pietenpol group? Charley --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Rick Holland wrote: > From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Latex status report pictures - 3 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 10:40 AM > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Pietenpol : [ Bill Church ] : New Email List PhotoShare
Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Bill Church Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Pietenpol Movie http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/billspiet@sympatico.ca.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Yahoo Pietenpol group
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Yes, apparently there IS a Pietenpol group on Yahoo. I wasn't aware of it either but it shows 106 members and that list has existed since 2002. Couple of dozen posts in those six years. This list gets that many posts in six DAYS (but that is not always an indication of the quality of the list). For anyone interested, there is a "fun fly-in" scheduled for this Saturday, Oct. 11 at Kerrville, TX. This was the original home of the "SWRFI" (Southwest Regional Fly-In) originated by the EAA chapter of which the late Tony Bingelis was a member. This one is "no frills, no instructions, no airshow, no registration". Info is here: http://www.texasflyin.org/calendar.htm Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Pietenpol : [ Oscar Zuniga ] : New Email List PhotoShare
Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Oscar Zuniga Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: W&B Spreadsheet http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/taildrags@hotmail.com.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Pietenpol : [ Oscar Zuniga ] : New Email List PhotoShare
Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Oscar Zuniga Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Ceconite Spec http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/taildrags@hotmail.com.10.07.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2008
Subject: Pietenpol : [ EAA Builder ] : New Email List PhotoShare
Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
(Listers - Sorry for the delay in processing this Photoshare; all of the incoming Photoshares where getting caught by my email client's spam filter. I wondered why nobody had posted a Photoshare in a long while... I've fixed the filter and Photoshares should be processed in a normal period of time now. -Matt) A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: EAA Builder Lists: Kolb-List,Ultralight-List,Pietenpol-List Subject: Supercat Ultralight Aircraft http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Eaabuilder@aol.com.10.06.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Johns Piet builders prayer
Date: Oct 06, 2008
No! Not in the shop! On the fridge just before Christmas! :-) :-) Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Johns Piet builders prayer I may engrave it on a plaque for my shop as it captures the essence of the build. God its great, God its good, Building my Piet from glue and wood By these hands, made my cheap tools dead I pray to God for good ones instead! John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 10/6/2008 5:37 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: elevator cables: in good company
Date: Oct 06, 2008
RE: Pietenpol-List: elevator cables: in good company And the DH-4 mailplane would also have rubbing cables except for two little tiny roller pulleys mounted on the leading edge. You could do that if you're REALLY concerned. Something else Dehaviland liked to do was install bracing cables from the horn back to the trailing edge. Clif I believe the routing of the Tiger Moth elevator cables is such that the cable would ALWAYS make contact with the top of the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, not just when the cables are slack (as on the Pietenpol), thus the need for a support for the cable. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "clem" <clam(at)snap.net.nz>
Subject: Email alteration
Date: Oct 07, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: elevator cables: in good company
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Oct 07, 2008
Here's a Pietenpol with those roller pulleys installed. (just for those that would like to know what that would look like). http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Brussels%202008_078.JPG&PhotoID=3953 Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7788#207788 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: FW: Re Drilling bolt holes in wood
Date: Oct 08, 2008
Hi all, re discussion on the strength of bolts through longerons for cabane fittings, for what it is worth an old aircraft wood worker friend has advised me to run a liquid type glue thru all holes, wait for it to cure, then ream I used West Systems two part epoxy he explained that the glue penetrates the wood fibres & makes every thing much stonger. The plans I am using are from the PFA in England & they reccommend using tufnol bushes for all holes for lift stut fittings thru the spars & also for all fittings for engine mount to front of fuse Tufnol Rod can be found from a supplier in the UK. Not expensive!! Talk to Gavin Davis email shop@davis-plast.co.uk Web site for Tufnol www.tufnol.co.uk keep building Graham Hewitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3-Piece Wing Rib Question
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Oct 08, 2008
Chris, I was told by a few experienced Pietenpol builders that it was advisable to add the most rearward brace, shown as a dashed line on the wing plan drawing, to all of your wing ribs. I was told that a piet wing has experienced failure in this area of the wing during a pull out from a steep dive. It sound logical. But I sure would like to hear from more builders who have actually added this brace to all the ribs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8017#208017 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kerrville Fly-In
Date: Oct 10, 2008
Anybody in or near central Texas, there is a plain old fly-in tomorrow, Saturday, at Kerrville Schreiner Field. No tower, no airshow, no procedures, no reservations. Just show up, visit, and leave. One day only. Information at http://www.texasflyin.org/ I will proudly represent TACO and Pietenpolers the world over as I plan to fly 41CC over to Kerrville tomorrow. Distance from my home field is 37nm, which means I will NOT win the "Longest Distance Flown" award. Especially since there is no judging, no awards ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: island hopping lake erie
Hello Piet'ers I am going to fly up to Lorain Co Ohio airport tommorow-A. M. about 11AM-and check out a Jungster 1 a guy bought, (I am Building one to.)- I was going to fly the Erie coast west to Port Clinton OH and then go Island Hopping to Put in Bay, And maybe Kelly's island, then back to th e Mainland of Centerburg Ohio.- Just wondering if any of you land lover O hio piets wanted to meet me at lorain co or port clinton, or even Sandusky Griffing airport.- I have never landed out at Put'in Bay so I figured I w ill be most of the way there so why not?- E-mail me if you can come along or call me at 740-972-1531. - Hope to see ya tommorow. Shad (I hope Corvairs float)=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 10, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kerrville Fly-In
Oscar, It seems impossible to get a bunch of Piets togeather anywhere but B rodhead.- I did however stumble upon Mike Cuy's Piet last Sunday at His h ome Airport in Columbia Station Ohio (Cleveland).- I am going to go islan d hoping over Lake Erie tommorow even if it is only 5 miles over water.- I guess the piet flyers are too spontainous for good planning.- Usually I don't even think of where I'm going untill 12 hrs or less from departure t ime, then I go.- One of these days I will put on my Iron Butt Cheeks and fly down to Texas, all 1200 miles of it.( if the wife allows it ha ha). - Safe Journies, and adventure, - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roy Brooks <n900ml(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Kerrville Fly-In
Date: Oct 10, 2008
Daing. If I had a couple of days "heads-up-notice" on this I'd be down there Muy P ronto. Holler again next time about 48 hours prior. Taco Grande > From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Kerrville Fly-In > Date: Fri=2C 10 Oct 2008 15:11:00 -0500 > > > > > Anybody in or near central Texas=2C there is a plain old fly-in tomorrow =2C Saturday=2C at Kerrville Schreiner Field. No tower=2C no airshow=2C no procedures=2C no reservations. Just show up=2C visit=2C and leave. One d ay only. Information at http://www.texasflyin.org/ > > I will proudly represent TACO and Pietenpolers the world over as I plan t o fly 41CC over to Kerrville tomorrow. Distance from my home field is 37nm =2C which means I will NOT win the "Longest Distance Flown" award. Especia lly since there is no judging=2C no awards =3Bo) > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio=2C TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piets flying on Saturday over Ohio
Date: Oct 11, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Just got off the phone with Shad Bell and I'm going to fly over to meet him at Lorain County Airport this AM as he had the same idea as I had----fly along the Lake Erie shoreline, maybe hop the Lake Erie Islands, and otherwise take advantage of this summer-like weekend before Ohio turns to blizzards, icy roads, fender benders, and fireplace season. They are calling for severe clear, light winds, mid 70's. This will be the THIRD weekend in a row that two or more Piets have gathered. Three (well 2.5) were at the Lee Bottom Fly In in southern Indiana and then Shad was with mine at my home base last weekend and now today we'll at least be present together at one airport. Hot dog ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 11, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Saturday over Ohio and Lake Erie
Mike, Boys, and Berries,- I had a blast today flying the pile of sawdust and glue and house paint (even if the experts say one of the -the cross b race wires are playing the wrong tune ha ha ha).- I did not find out if c orvair engines float, or wooden airplanes for that matter.- I met Mike Cu y (Guy?) at Lorain Co airport and got to fly some formation with the famous Aircamper many of you have vidios of.- We both got some air to air photo s, and I got a good one of him peeling off with the smoke on.- I put abou t 3-4 hrs and 200+ miles on the old piet today, from Cleveland to Sandusky to Put in bay out on South Bass Island on lake erie, then back to land lovi ng Centerburg Ohio.- The weather was great, severe clear, with a bit of a steady wind (always a headwind).- What better way to enjoy God's Green ( red, yellow, and orange in the fall)-Earth than from 1000agl in an open c ockpit with the sun on your-head and the wind in your face.- Mike, I ho pe your return trip was just as well.- It is always good to meet up with go od company between Brodhead and Brodhead.- I am a computer idiot and don' t know how to post photos on the list so I will email them to Mike and mayb e he can post them.- Sorry to be long winded so I'm signen off. - Still on a Piet high, but with a sore ass, Shad (Chad? ha ha) - p.s. mike gets the ?'s inside joke -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2008
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: week-end breakfast fly-in
Pieters!!- (wow, not too sure if THAT'S politically correct) - I had a wonderful experience yesterday that's worth sharing. - I was at an EAA fly-in breakfast with my Piet here in central Arkansas and as I was getting ready to leave a really ancient couple slowly made their w ay through the gaggle of kibitzers straight toward me. Being respectful of their advanced years (and expecting the same from you young whippersnappers ) I calmly waited for them with a big smile. - Shortening the story a bit; the wife introduced her husband as being 91 yea rs old and having learned to fly in Dayton, Ohio at the age of 18. By my re ckoning that would have been about 1935-36. Anyway his lessons were in a Pi etenpol!! He was a little fuzzy about details but as he made his way around my plane pointing, nodding and smiling, I could tell he was having a good time remembering. - Their son is buying a lot at the airport community where I live so maybe I can get more details and possibly a picture or two from him in the future. - Larry W. -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: week-end breakfast fly-in
Date: Oct 12, 2008
That's a nice story.....thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Williams To: Pietlist Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:53 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: week-end breakfast fly-in Pieters!! (wow, not too sure if THAT'S politically correct) I had a wonderful experience yesterday that's worth sharing. I was at an EAA fly-in breakfast with my Piet here in central Arkansas and as I was getting ready to leave a really ancient couple slowly made their way through the gaggle of kibitzers straight toward me. Being respectful of their advanced years (and expecting the same from you young whippersnappers) I calmly waited for them with a big smile. Shortening the story a bit; the wife introduced her husband as being 91 years old and having learned to fly in Dayton, Ohio at the age of 18. By my reckoning that would have been about 1935-36. Anyway his lessons were in a Pietenpol!! He was a little fuzzy about details but as he made his way around my plane pointing, nodding and smiling, I could tell he was having a good time remembering. Their son is buying a lot at the airport community where I live so maybe I can get more details and possibly a picture or two from him in the future. Larry W. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roy Brooks <n900ml(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: week-end breakfast fly-in
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Larry: Very neat story and I'm happy I opened this one to read. Most of the times =2C I simply delete stuff from "the list" but this was a great story. (I al so liked the "whippersnappers" part.) My dad learned to fly about the same time as the subject of your e-mail=2C and I often wish we had time-machines to go back to that period in aviation =2C to re-live a golden age... Then I think to myself=2C "Idiot=2C we do ha ve time machines=2C they are called Pietenpols." and I have one (a project) sitting in a hanger... too beat-up to finish it=2C but someday someone wil l and they too can fly back to the 30s=2C in their own "time machine." Date: Sun=2C 12 Oct 2008 06:53:23 -0700 From: lnawms(at)yahoo.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: week-end breakfast fly-in Pieters!! (wow=2C not too sure if THAT'S politically correct) I had a wonderful experience yesterday that's worth sharing. I was at an EAA fly-in breakfast with my Piet here in central Arkansas and as I was getting ready to leave a really ancient couple slowly made their w ay through the gaggle of kibitzers straight toward me. Being respectful of their advanced years (and expecting the same from you young whippersnappers ) I calmly waited for them with a big smile. Shortening the story a bit=3B the wife introduced her husband as being 91 y ears old and having learned to fly in Dayton=2C Ohio at the age of 18. By m y reckoning that would have been about 1935-36. Anyway his lessons were in a Pietenpol!! He was a little fuzzy about details but as he made his way ar ound my plane pointing=2C nodding and smiling=2C I could tell he was having a good time remembering. Their son is buying a lot at the airport community where I live so maybe I can get more details and possibly a picture or two from him in the future. Larry W. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 12, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: week-end breakfast fly-in
I have an old black and white picture of a Pietenpol parked in a field in front of a fence with an old fashioned bicycle parted behind that my wife purchased off of ebay (on that old cardboard type paper). I keep it stuck to my bedroom mirror. It has the date 1936 written on the back, could be the plane the 91 year old gentleman learned in. An as far as going back in time to the golden age I think visiting Broadhead is as close as we can get to that. On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Roy Brooks wrote: > Larry: > > Very neat story and I'm happy I opened this one to read. Most of the times, > I simply delete stuff from "the list" but this was a great story. (I also > liked the "whippersnappers" part.) > > My dad learned to fly about the same time as the subject of your e-mail, > and I often wish we had time-machines to go back to that period in aviation, > to re-live a golden age... Then I think to myself, "Idiot, we do have time > machines, they are called Pietenpols." and I have one (a project) sitting in > a hanger... too beat-up to finish it, but someday someone will and they too > can fly back to the 30s, in their own "time machine." > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 06:53:23 -0700 > From: lnawms(at)yahoo.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: week-end breakfast fly-in > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Pieters!! (wow, not too sure if THAT'S politically correct) > > I had a wonderful experience yesterday that's worth sharing. > > I was at an EAA fly-in breakfast with my Piet here in central Arkansas and > as I was getting ready to leave a really ancient couple slowly made their > way through the gaggle of kibitzers straight toward me. Being respectful of > their advanced years (and expecting the same from you young whippersnappers) > I calmly waited for them with a big smile. > > Shortening the story a bit; the wife introduced her husband as being 91 > years old and having learned to fly in Dayton, Ohio at the age of 18. By my > reckoning that would have been about 1935-36. Anyway his lessons were in a > Pietenpol!! He was a little fuzzy about details but as he made his way > around my plane pointing, nodding and smiling, I could tell he was having a > good time remembering. > > Their son is buying a lot at the airport community where I live so maybe I > can get more details and possibly a picture or two from him in the future. > > Larry W. > > > * > > 3D============================================ > Pietenpol-List > 3D============================================ > 3D============================================ > on > 3D============================================ > * > > > ------------------------------ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. Learn > Now<http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns%21550F681DAD532637%215295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_getmore_092008> > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Prop Carving Report
Date: Oct 12, 2008
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hello Good People! I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at OSH I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All power tools. The first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 grit paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vibrating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference in hardness between the spring and summer wood of the ash tree that it leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identical I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade with the other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it was so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report
Dan That's great, really a piece of art. I too am impressed John In a message dated 10/12/2008 6:45:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, helspersew(at)aol.com writes: Hello Good People! I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at OSH I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All power tools. The first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 grit paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vibrating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference in hardness between the spring and summer wood of the ash tree that it leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identical I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade with the other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it was so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ____________________________________ McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - _Download Now_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001) ! **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report
Date: Oct 12, 2008
Wow, that really, really looks great. So, how do you like the performance? What kind of RPM do you get compared to a "typical" prop on a Model A? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to the scimitar shape? Any estimate on the number of hours it took? Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carving Report Hello Good People! I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at OSH I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All power tools. The first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 grit paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vibrating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference in hardness between the spring and summer wood of the ash tree that it leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identical I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade with the other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it was so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - Download Now! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report, run-up report
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Steve, I had my initial run-up yesterday on my Model A. Except for a few leaks everything went fabulous and the engine runs true and strong and smooth. That prop made a lot of wind that is for sure. The static RPM was about 1900 or 2000 rpm the best we could figure with a hand held electronic tach. I did not have my panel mounted tach in their yet. We had three guys trying to hold the airplane back and we could not and that wasn't even full power. So far I am very pleased with that prop. I have a video of this event that I am going to put on YouTube tonight. You guys will be the first to know. As for the advantages to the scimitar shape I don't really know. I saw one just like this at Brodhead a few years ago and took some pictures of it because I liked it so much. As for the number of hours it took to carve, I would estimate this one took me about 20 hours in all. This is the first prop I have ever made. If I made another I am sure it would go alot faster, especially with this powe r tool method. I think I might try hickory next time. Very quick compared to chisels, draw knives etc., and a lot of fun I may add. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:14 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carving Report Wow, that really, really looks great. ? So, how do you like the performance?? What kind of RPM do you get compared to a "typical" prop on a Model A?? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to the scimitar shape? ? Any estimate on the number of hours it took? ? Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carving Report Hello Good People! I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at OSH I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All power tools. The first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 grit paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vibrating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference in hardness between the spring and summer wood of the ash tree that it leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identical I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade with the other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it was so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - Download Now! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report - Excellant Work
Dan and all Piet builders,=0A=0AAt the risk of filling our in boxes with mo re of the same, I agree with the group on-your talant and willingness to share your prop carving work.- Very nice work.- Thank you!=0A=0Ajohn eg an=0A(fabricated a rear cockpit step last night...)=0AGreenville, Wi.=0A=0A Do-not archive-=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "helsper sew(at)aol.com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent : Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:42:15 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carvi ng Report=0A=0AHello Good People!=0A=0AI finished carving my prop last week . I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole project, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at OSH I watched him carve the prop for t he EAA Bleriot replica. All power tools. The first step is to figure out wh at pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter an gle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 grit paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vibrating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference in hardness between the spring and summer wood o f the ash tree that it leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identical I u sed a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade with th e other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the b lade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it was so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos.=0A=0ADan Helspe r=0APoplar Grove, IL =0A=0A________________________________=0AMcCain or Oba ma? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - Do wnload Now! =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Charles Halibet (?)
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Charles left me a message with no area code. Charles if you are out there give me a call back. Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report - Excellant Work
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2008
SGFzIGFueW9uZSBmaWd1cmVkIG91dCB0aGUgYmVzdCBzaWRlIHRvIGxvY2F0ZSBzdGVwcyBmb3Ig ZWFzaWVzdCBlbnRyeS4gSSBhbSB0cnlpbmcgdG8gZGVjaWRlIHRoYXQgaXNzdWUgYW5kIHdvdWxk IGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgYW55IGFuZCBhbGwgaW4gcHV0IG9uIHRoYXQgYXMgZmFyIGFzIGVhc2Ugb2Yg ZW50cnkgZm9yIGZyb250IGFuZCByZWFyIHBpdHMNCg0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVy aXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpG cm9tOiBKb2huIEVnYW4gPGpvaG5lZ2FuOTlAeWFob28uY29tPg0KDQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDEzIE9j dCAyMDA4IDA5OjI0OjAxIA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3Vi amVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQcm9wIENhcnZpbmcgUmVwb3J0IC0gRXhjZWxsYW50 IFdvcmsNCg0KDQpEYW4gYW5kIGFsbCBQaWV0IGJ1aWxkZXJzLA0KDQpBdCB0aGUgcmlzayBvZiBm aWxsaW5nIG91ciBpbiBib3hlcyB3aXRoIG1vcmUgb2YgdGhlIHNhbWUsIEkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB0 aGUgZ3JvdXAgb26geW91ciB0YWxhbnQgYW5kIHdpbGxpbmduZXNzIHRvIHNoYXJlIHlvdXIgcHJv cCBjYXJ2aW5nIHdvcmsuoCBWZXJ5IG5pY2Ugd29yay6gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSENCg0Kam9obiBlZ2Fu DQooZmFicmljYXRlZCBhIHJlYXIgY29ja3BpdCBzdGVwIGxhc3QgbmlnaHQuLi4pDQpHcmVlbnZp bGxlLCBXaS4NCg0KRG+gbm90IGFyY2hpdmWgDQoNCg0KDQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdl IC0tLS0NCkZyb206ICJoZWxzcGVyc2V3QGFvbC5jb20iIDxoZWxzcGVyc2V3QGFvbC5jb20+DQpU bzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU2VudDogU3VuZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDEy LCAyMDA4IDU6NDI6MTUgUE0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQcm9wIENhcnZpbmcg UmVwb3J0DQoNCkhlbGxvIEdvb2QgUGVvcGxlIQ0KDQpJIGZpbmlzaGVkIGNhcnZpbmcgbXkgcHJv cCBsYXN0IHdlZWsuIEkgbWFkZSBpdCBmcm9tIGZpdmUgYm9hcmRzIG9mIDMvNCIgYXNoLiBUaGlz IGhhcyBiZWVuIHdpdGhvdXQgYSBkb3VidCB0aGUgbW9zdCByZXdhcmRpbmcgcGFydCBvZiB0aGUg d2hvbGUgcHJvamVjdCwgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpcyBhIHdvcmsgb2YgYXJ0IHRoYXQgSSB0aG91Z2h0 IEkgd2FzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgY2FwYWJsZSBvZiBkb2luZy4gSSB1c2VkIHRoZSAiSmVycnkgVGhv cm5oaWxsIiBtZXRob2Qgb2YgcHJvcCBjYXJ2aW5nLiBMYXN0IHllYXIgYXQgT1NIIEkgd2F0Y2hl ZCBoaW0gY2FydmUgdGhlIHByb3AgZm9yIHRoZSBFQUEgQmxlcmlvdCByZXBsaWNhLiBBbGwgcG93 ZXIgdG9vbHMuIFRoZSBmaXJzdCBzdGVwIGlzIHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgd2hhdCBwaXRjaCB5b3Ug d2FudC4gVGhlbiBhZnRlciBzb21lIHNpbXBsZSBjYWxjdWxhdGlvbnMsIGxpbmVzIGNhbiBiZSBk cmF3biBhbG9uZyB0aGUgbGVhZGluZyBhbmQgdHJhaWxpbmcgZWRnZSBmb3IgZ3VpZGFuY2UuIEZp cnN0IHlvdSB1c2UgYW4gZWxlY3RyaWMgY2hhaW4gc2F3IHRvIGhvcnNlIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIG1h dGVyaWFsIG9mZi4gVGhlbiBjb21lcyB0aGUgNyIgZGlhbWV0ZXIgYW5nbGUgZ3JpbmRlciB3aXRo IHRoZSBydWJiZXIgYmFja2luZyBwYWQgd2l0aCA2MCBncml0IHBhcGVyLCBUaGVuIGxhc3QgY29t ZXMgdGhlIDUiIGRpYW1ldGVyIERlV2FsdCB2aWJyYXRpbmcvcm90YXRpbmcgc2FuZGVyIHdpdGgg MTUwIGdyaXQgcGFwZXIuIFRoZSBvbmx5IGhhbmQgdG9vbCBJIHVzZWQgd2FzIGEgbWV0YWwgZmls ZSB0byB0YWtlIG9mZiB0aGUgaGlnaCBzcG90cywgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBzdWNoIGEgZGlm ZmVyZW5jZSBpbiBoYXJkbmVzcyBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBzcHJpbmcgYW5kIHN1bW1lciB3b29kIG9m IHRoZSBhc2ggdHJlZSB0aGF0IGl0IGxlYXZlcw0KICJ3YXZlcyIgZGVwZW5kaW5nIG9uIHRoZSBn cmFpbiBkaXJlY3Rpb24uIFRvIGdldCBib3RoIGJsYWRlcyBpZGVudGljYWwgSSB1c2VkIGEgMTIi IGxvbmcgcHJvZmlsZSBnYXVnZSAocGxhc3RpYykgc28gSSBjb3VsZCBjb21wYXJlIG9uZSBibGFk ZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBvdGhlci4gSSBkaWQgbm90IHVzZSBhbnkgdGVtcGxhdGVzLiBJIGp1c3QgImV5 ZWJhbGxlZCIgaXQgYXMgZmFyIGFzIHRoZSBibGFkZSBhaXJmb2lsIGdvZXMuIEFmdGVyIEkgd2Fz IGRvbmUgY2FydmluZyBJIHRyaWVkIGJhbGFuY2luZyBhbmQgaXQgd2FzIHNvIGNsb3NlIHRvIHBl cmZlY3QgSSBqdXN0IGxlZnQgaXQuIEF0dGFjaGVkIGFyZSBzb21lIHBob3Rvcy4NCg0KRGFuIEhl bHNwZXINClBvcGxhciBHcm92ZSwgSUwgDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fDQpNY0NhaW4gb3IgT2JhbWE/IFN0YXkgdXBkYXRlZCBvbiBjb3ZlcmFnZSBvZiB0aGUgUHJl c2lkZW50aWFsIHJhY2Ugd2hpbGUgeW91IGJyb3dzZSAtIERvd25sb2FkIE5vdyEgDQoNCg0KICAg ICAgDQoNCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 13, 2008
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report - Excellant Work
Same as what I was thinking, however I was considering the mount and dismount may be easier fro the rt side so I figured would ask now rather t hen live with the mistake later. Thanks for the illustration, just wanting to show off the chic magnet power s of the Piet, yup I know, I know... thanks for the insight, John In a message dated 10/13/2008 2:50:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes: Put them near the bottom. Easier to step on there than if they are on the top. Sorry =93 couldn=99t resist. I put mine on the left side, beca use it just felt more normal to climb in from the left side, like mounting a horse, or a bicycle. Here are a couple of pictures of mine: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ____________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc@a ol.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carving Report - Excellant Work Has anyone figured out the best side to locate steps for easiest entry. I a m trying to decide that issue and would appreciate any and all in put on that as far as ease of entry for front and rear pits John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ____________________________________ From: John Egan <johnegan99(at)yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carving Report - Excellant Work Dan and all Piet builders, At the risk of filling our in boxes with more of the same, I agree with the group on your talant and willingness to share your prop carving work. Very nice work. Thank you! john egan (fabricated a rear cockpit step last night...) Greenville, Wi. Do not archive ----- Original Message ---- From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:42:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop Carving Report Hello Good People! I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole pro ject, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at OS H I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All power tools. Th e first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge for gu idance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 gri t paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vibrating/rotating sander wit h 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference in hardness between the spring an d summer wood of the ash tree that it leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identical I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade with the other. I did not use any te mplates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it was so close to perfect I just left it. At tached are some photos. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ____________________________________ McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while yo u browse - _Download Now_ (http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001) ! _________________________________________________ , proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Entry steps
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi John, I put my pilot entry step on the left side. I think tradition going back to WW1 dictates here. Actually I think this probably goes back to the way most people mounted their horse years ago. Anyway, after much consternation, I elected not to make a passenger entry step, because I determined that the best way for a passenger to get into my piet is to: 1) Place left foot on top of left tire 2) Grab struts and pull self off ground and forward 3) Place right foot inside cockpit (on the seat) 4) Duck head and form body into a type of pretzel, and making sure head and left shoulder does not shear-off downward extending fuel gauge, all while extending??? head (and CG) way over to the right and beyond the right side of fuse 5) When CG is far to starboard, lift left leg off of left tire and crunch body once again into pretzel, lifting left foot sufficiently to clear left side of fuse and lowering left leg into cockpit. 6) Lower both legs and hind end down into passenger seat, hoping that cheeks stay in contact onto miserably narrow passenger seat without overhanging too much to impede pilot's ability to get his or her feet onto the rudder pedals. This whole procedure must be done with chocks in place, or unsuspecting passenger will end up on ground after step 1. Attached is a photo. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report
Dan, Your comments and pictures are inspiring. You should do a prop-carving workshop at Brodhead next year. ...because you know at least 50 people are going to track you down for the same discussion. Can't wait to see this plane! Thanks On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 6:42 PM, wrote: > Hello Good People! > > I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" > ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whole > project, because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really capable > of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last year at > OSH I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All power > tools. The first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some > simple calculations, lines can be drawn along the leading and trailing edge > for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the > material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber > backing pad with 60 grit paper, Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt > vibrating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was > a metal file to take off the high spots, because there is such a difference > in hardness between the spring and summer wood of the ash tree that it > leaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades > identical I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one > blade with the other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as > far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing > and it was so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL > ------------------------------ > McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while > you browse - Download Now<http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000001> > ! > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
R3JlYXQgaWRlYSBJIGtub3cgdGhhdCBJIHdvdWxkIHJlYWxseSBlbmpveSBzZWVpbmcgRGFuIG1h a2UgdGhlIG1hZ2ljDQoNCkpvaG4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNr QmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206ICJHbGVubiBUaG9tYXMi IDxnbGVubnRob21hc0BmbHlpbmd3b29kLmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogTW9uLCAxMyBPY3QgMjAwOCAx OTozODowMCANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUHJvcCBDYXJ2aW5nIFJlcG9ydA0KDQoNCkRhbiwNCllvdXIgY29t bWVudHMgYW5kIHBpY3R1cmVzIGFyZSBpbnNwaXJpbmcuICBZb3Ugc2hvdWxkIGRvIGEgcHJvcC1j YXJ2aW5nDQp3b3Jrc2hvcCBhdCBCcm9kaGVhZCBuZXh0IHllYXIuICAuLi5iZWNhdXNlIHlvdSBr bm93IGF0IGxlYXN0IDUwIHBlb3BsZSBhcmUNCmdvaW5nIHRvIHRyYWNrIHlvdSBkb3duIGZvciB0 aGUgc2FtZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLg0KDQpDYW4ndCB3YWl0IHRvIHNlZSB0aGlzIHBsYW5lIQ0KVGhh bmtzDQoNCk9uIFN1biwgT2N0IDEyLCAyMDA4IGF0IDY6NDIgUE0sIDxoZWxzcGVyc2V3QGFvbC5j b20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IEhlbGxvIEdvb2QgUGVvcGxlIQ0KPg0KPiBJIGZpbmlzaGVkIGNhcnZp bmcgbXkgcHJvcCBsYXN0IHdlZWsuIEkgbWFkZSBpdCBmcm9tIGZpdmUgYm9hcmRzIG9mIDMvNCIN Cj4gYXNoLiBUaGlzIGhhcyBiZWVuIHdpdGhvdXQgYSBkb3VidCB0aGUgbW9zdCByZXdhcmRpbmcg cGFydCBvZiB0aGUgd2hvbGUNCj4gcHJvamVjdCwgYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBpcyBhIHdvcmsgb2YgYXJ0 IHRoYXQgSSB0aG91Z2h0IEkgd2FzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgY2FwYWJsZQ0KPiBvZiBkb2luZy4gSSB1 c2VkIHRoZSAiSmVycnkgVGhvcm5oaWxsIiBtZXRob2Qgb2YgcHJvcCBjYXJ2aW5nLiBMYXN0IHll YXIgYXQNCj4gT1NIIEkgd2F0Y2hlZCBoaW0gY2FydmUgdGhlIHByb3AgZm9yIHRoZSBFQUEgQmxl cmlvdCByZXBsaWNhLiBBbGwgcG93ZXINCj4gdG9vbHMuIFRoZSBmaXJzdCBzdGVwIGlzIHRvIGZp Z3VyZSBvdXQgd2hhdCBwaXRjaCB5b3Ugd2FudC4gVGhlbiBhZnRlciBzb21lDQo+IHNpbXBsZSBj YWxjdWxhdGlvbnMsIGxpbmVzIGNhbiBiZSBkcmF3biBhbG9uZyB0aGUgbGVhZGluZyBhbmQgdHJh aWxpbmcgZWRnZQ0KPiBmb3IgZ3VpZGFuY2UuIEZpcnN0IHlvdSB1c2UgYW4gZWxlY3RyaWMgY2hh aW4gc2F3IHRvIGhvcnNlIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlDQo+IG1hdGVyaWFsIG9mZi4gVGhlbiBjb21lcyB0 aGUgNyIgZGlhbWV0ZXIgYW5nbGUgZ3JpbmRlciB3aXRoIHRoZSBydWJiZXINCj4gYmFja2luZyBw YWQgd2l0aCA2MCBncml0IHBhcGVyLCBUaGVuIGxhc3QgY29tZXMgdGhlIDUiIGRpYW1ldGVyIERl V2FsdA0KPiB2aWJyYXRpbmcvcm90YXRpbmcgc2FuZGVyIHdpdGggMTUwIGdyaXQgcGFwZXIuIFRo ZSBvbmx5IGhhbmQgdG9vbCBJIHVzZWQgd2FzDQo+IGEgbWV0YWwgZmlsZSB0byB0YWtlIG9mZiB0 aGUgaGlnaCBzcG90cywgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBzdWNoIGEgZGlmZmVyZW5jZQ0KPiBpbiBo YXJkbmVzcyBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBzcHJpbmcgYW5kIHN1bW1lciB3b29kIG9mIHRoZSBhc2ggdHJl ZSB0aGF0IGl0DQo+IGxlYXZlcyAid2F2ZXMiIGRlcGVuZGluZyBvbiB0aGUgZ3JhaW4gZGlyZWN0 aW9uLiBUbyBnZXQgYm90aCBibGFkZXMNCj4gaWRlbnRpY2FsIEkgdXNlZCBhIDEyIiBsb25nIHBy b2ZpbGUgZ2F1Z2UgKHBsYXN0aWMpIHNvIEkgY291bGQgY29tcGFyZSBvbmUNCj4gYmxhZGUgd2l0 aCB0aGUgb3RoZXIuIEkgZGlkIG5vdCB1c2UgYW55IHRlbXBsYXRlcy4gSSBqdXN0ICJleWViYWxs ZWQiIGl0IGFzDQo+IGZhciBhcyB0aGUgYmxhZGUgYWlyZm9pbCBnb2VzLiBBZnRlciBJIHdhcyBk b25lIGNhcnZpbmcgSSB0cmllZCBiYWxhbmNpbmcNCj4gYW5kIGl0IHdhcyBzbyBjbG9zZSB0byBw ZXJmZWN0IEkganVzdCBsZWZ0IGl0LiBBdHRhY2hlZCBhcmUgc29tZSBwaG90b3MuDQo+DQo+IERh biBIZWxzcGVyDQo+IFBvcGxhciBHcm92ZSwgSUwNCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tDQo+IE1jQ2FpbiBvciBPYmFtYT8gU3RheSB1cGRhdGVkIG9uIGNvdmVyYWdlIG9mIHRo ZSBQcmVzaWRlbnRpYWwgcmFjZSB3aGlsZQ0KPiB5b3UgYnJvd3NlIC0gRG93bmxvYWQgTm93PGh0 dHA6Ly90b29sYmFyLmFvbC5jb20vZWxlY3Rpb25zL2Rvd25sb2FkLmh0bWw/bmNpZD1lbWx3ZXVz ZG93bjAwMDAwMDAxPg0KPiAhDQo+DQoNCg0KDQotLSANCkdsZW5uIFRob21hcw0KU3RvcnJzLCBD VA0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5mbHlpbmd3b29kLmNvbQ0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report - Excellant Work
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
VGhhdCBqdXN0IGNhbid0IGJlIHRydWUuIFNoZSdzIGp1c3QgdG9vIGN1dGUgdG8gYmUgaGlzIGRh dWdodGVyLiBTaGUgbXVzdCB0YWtlIGFmdGVyIGhlciBtb20uIA0KDQpJIG1ldCBKb2huIHNvIEkg a25vdyBiZXR0ZXIhIA0KDQoNCkpvaG4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJs YWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206ICJQaGlsbGlwcywg SmFjayIgPEphY2suUGhpbGxpcHNAY2FyZGluYWxoZWFsdGguY29tPg0KDQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDEz IE9jdCAyMDA4IDE2OjA0OjQ5IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0K U3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQcm9wIENhcnZpbmcgUmVwb3J0IC0gRXhjZWxs YW50IFdvcmsNCg0KDQpXZWxsLCB0aGUgUGlldCBJUyBhIENoaWNrIE1hZ25ldCwgYnV0IHRoaXMg cGFydGljdWxhciBjaGljayBpcyBKb2huDQpIb2ZtYW5uJ3MgMTIgeWVhciBvbGQgZGF1Z2h0ZXIs IFJhY2hlbC4gIFNoZSBkaWQgZW5qb3kgdGhlIHJpZGUsIHRob3VnaCwNCmFzIHNlZW4gaW4gdGhp cyAiQWZ0ZXIiIHNob3Q6DQoNCiANCg0KSmFjaw0KDQogDQoNCiANCg0KIA0KDQpGcm9tOiBvd25l ci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1waWV0 ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mDQpBTXNhZmV0eUNA YW9sLmNvbQ0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDEzLCAyMDA4IDM6MDcgUE0NClRvOiBwaWV0 ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFBy b3AgQ2FydmluZyBSZXBvcnQgLSBFeGNlbGxhbnQgV29yaw0KDQogDQoNClNhbWUgYXMgd2hhdCBJ IHdhcyB0aGlua2luZywgaG93ZXZlciBJIHdhcyBjb25zaWRlcmluZyB0aGUgbW91bnQgYW5kDQpk aXNtb3VudCBtYXkgYmUgZWFzaWVyIGZybyB0aGUgcnQgc2lkZSBzbyBJIGZpZ3VyZWQgIHdvdWxk IGFzayBub3cNCnJhdGhlciB0aGVuIGxpdmUgd2l0aCB0aGUgbWlzdGFrZSBsYXRlci4NCg0KIA0K DQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBpbGx1c3RyYXRpb24sIGp1c3Qgd2FudGluZyB0byBzaG93IG9mZiB0 aGUgY2hpYyBtYWduZXQNCnBvd2VycyBvZiB0aGUgUGlldCwgIHl1cCBJIGtub3csIEkga25vdy4u Lg0KDQogDQoNCnRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIGluc2lnaHQsIA0KDQpKb2huDQoNCiANCg0KSW4gYSBt ZXNzYWdlIGRhdGVkIDEwLzEzLzIwMDggMjo1MDo1NiBQLk0uIEVhc3Rlcm4gRGF5bGlnaHQgVGlt ZSwNCkphY2suUGhpbGxpcHNAY2FyZGluYWxoZWFsdGguY29tIHdyaXRlczoNCg0KICAgIFB1dCB0 aGVtIG5lYXIgdGhlIGJvdHRvbS4gIEVhc2llciB0byBzdGVwIG9uIHRoZXJlIHRoYW4gaWYgdGhl eQ0KYXJlIG9uIHRoZSB0b3AuDQoNCiAgICAgDQoNCiAgICBTb3JyeSAtIGNvdWxkbid0IHJlc2lz dC4gIEkgcHV0IG1pbmUgb24gdGhlIGxlZnQgc2lkZSwgYmVjYXVzZQ0KaXQganVzdCBmZWx0IG1v cmUgbm9ybWFsIHRvIGNsaW1iIGluIGZyb20gdGhlIGxlZnQgc2lkZSwgbGlrZSBtb3VudGluZyBh DQpob3JzZSwgb3IgYSBiaWN5Y2xlLg0KDQogICAgIA0KDQogICAgSGVyZSBhcmUgYSBjb3VwbGUg b2YgcGljdHVyZXMgb2YgbWluZToNCg0KICAgICANCg0KICAgIEphY2sgUGhpbGxpcHMNCg0KICAg IE5YODk5SlANCg0KICAgIFJhbGVpZ2gsIE5DDQoNCiAgICAgDQoNCiAgICAgDQoNCiAgICANCl9f X19fICANCg0KDQogICAgRnJvbTogb3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmlj cy5jb20NClttYWlsdG86b3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21d IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZg0KYW1zYWZldHljQGFvbC5jb20NCiAgICBTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIE9jdG9i ZXIgMTMsIDIwMDggMjozOCBQTQ0KICAgIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29t DQogICAgU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBQcm9wIENhcnZpbmcgUmVwb3J0IC0g RXhjZWxsYW50DQpXb3JrDQoNCiAgICAgDQoNCiAgICBIYXMgYW55b25lIGZpZ3VyZWQgb3V0IHRo ZSBiZXN0IHNpZGUgdG8gbG9jYXRlIHN0ZXBzIGZvciBlYXNpZXN0DQplbnRyeS4gSSBhbSB0cnlp bmcgdG8gZGVjaWRlIHRoYXQgaXNzdWUgYW5kIHdvdWxkIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgYW55IGFuZCBhbGwN CmluIHB1dCBvbiB0aGF0IGFzIGZhciBhcyBlYXNlIG9mIGVudHJ5IGZvciBmcm9udCBhbmQgcmVh ciBwaXRzDQogICAgDQogICAgDQogICAgSm9obg0KDQogICAgU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24g V2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0KDQogICAgDQpfX19fXyAgDQoNCg0KICAgIEZyb206IEpvaG4g RWdhbiA8am9obmVnYW45OUB5YWhvby5jb20+DQogICAgRGF0ZTogTW9uLCAxMyBPY3QgMjAwOCAw OToyNDowMSAtMDcwMCAoUERUKQ0KICAgIFRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bT4NCiAgICBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFByb3AgQ2FydmluZyBSZXBvcnQg LSBFeGNlbGxhbnQNCldvcmsNCg0KICAgIERhbiBhbmQgYWxsIFBpZXQgYnVpbGRlcnMsDQoNCiAg ICAgDQoNCiAgICBBdCB0aGUgcmlzayBvZiBmaWxsaW5nIG91ciBpbiBib3hlcyB3aXRoIG1vcmUg b2YgdGhlIHNhbWUsIEkNCmFncmVlIHdpdGggdGhlIGdyb3VwIG9uIHlvdXIgdGFsYW50IGFuZCB3 aWxsaW5nbmVzcyB0byBzaGFyZSB5b3VyIHByb3ANCmNhcnZpbmcgd29yay4gIFZlcnkgbmljZSB3 b3JrLiAgVGhhbmsgeW91IQ0KDQogICAgIA0KDQogICAgam9obiBlZ2FuDQoNCiAgICAoZmFicmlj YXRlZCBhIHJlYXIgY29ja3BpdCBzdGVwIGxhc3QgbmlnaHQuLi4pDQoNCiAgICBHcmVlbnZpbGxl LCBXaS4NCg0KICAgICANCg0KICAgIERvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlIA0KDQogICAgIA0KDQogICAgLS0t LS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tDQogICAgRnJvbTogImhlbHNwZXJzZXdAYW9sLmNvbSIg PGhlbHNwZXJzZXdAYW9sLmNvbT4NCiAgICBUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bQ0KICAgIFNlbnQ6IFN1bmRheSwgT2N0b2JlciAxMiwgMjAwOCA1OjQyOjE1IFBNDQogICAgU3Vi amVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFByb3AgQ2FydmluZyBSZXBvcnQNCiAgICANCiAgICBIZWxs byBHb29kIFBlb3BsZSENCiAgICANCiAgICBJIGZpbmlzaGVkIGNhcnZpbmcgbXkgcHJvcCBsYXN0 IHdlZWsuIEkgbWFkZSBpdCBmcm9tIGZpdmUgYm9hcmRzDQpvZiAzLzQiIGFzaC4gVGhpcyBoYXMg YmVlbiB3aXRob3V0IGEgZG91YnQgdGhlIG1vc3QgcmV3YXJkaW5nIHBhcnQgb2YNCnRoZSB3aG9s ZSBwcm9qZWN0LCBiZWNhdXNlIGl0IGlzIGEgd29yayBvZiBhcnQgdGhhdCBJIHRob3VnaHQgSSB3 YXMgbm90DQpyZWFsbHkgY2FwYWJsZSBvZiBkb2luZy4gSSB1c2VkIHRoZSAiSmVycnkgVGhvcm5o aWxsIiBtZXRob2Qgb2YgcHJvcA0KY2FydmluZy4gTGFzdCB5ZWFyIGF0IE9TSCBJIHdhdGNoZWQg aGltIGNhcnZlIHRoZSBwcm9wIGZvciB0aGUgRUFBDQpCbGVyaW90IHJlcGxpY2EuIEFsbCBwb3dl ciB0b29scy4gVGhlIGZpcnN0IHN0ZXAgaXMgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCB3aGF0DQpwaXRjaCB5b3Ug d2FudC4gVGhlbiBhZnRlciBzb21lIHNpbXBsZSBjYWxjdWxhdGlvbnMsIGxpbmVzIGNhbiBiZSBk cmF3bg0KYWxvbmcgdGhlIGxlYWRpbmcgYW5kIHRyYWlsaW5nIGVkZ2UgZm9yIGd1aWRhbmNlLiBG aXJzdCB5b3UgdXNlIGFuDQplbGVjdHJpYyBjaGFpbiBzYXcgdG8gaG9yc2UgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUg bWF0ZXJpYWwgb2ZmLiBUaGVuIGNvbWVzIHRoZSA3Ig0KZGlhbWV0ZXIgYW5nbGUgZ3JpbmRlciB3 aXRoIHRoZSBydWJiZXIgYmFja2luZyBwYWQgd2l0aCA2MCBncml0IHBhcGVyLA0KVGhlbiBsYXN0 IGNvbWVzIHRoZSA1IiBkaWFtZXRlciBEZVdhbHQgdmlicmF0aW5nL3JvdGF0aW5nIHNhbmRlciB3 aXRoDQoxNTAgZ3JpdCBwYXBlci4gVGhlIG9ubHkgaGFuZCB0b29sIEkgdXNlZCB3YXMgYSBtZXRh bCBmaWxlIHRvIHRha2Ugb2ZmDQp0aGUgaGlnaCBzcG90cywgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBzdWNo IGEgZGlmZmVyZW5jZSBpbiBoYXJkbmVzcyBiZXR3ZWVuDQp0aGUgc3ByaW5nIGFuZCBzdW1tZXIg d29vZCBvZiB0aGUgYXNoIHRyZWUgdGhhdCBpdCBsZWF2ZXMgIndhdmVzIg0KZGVwZW5kaW5nIG9u IHRoZSBncmFpbiBkaXJlY3Rpb24uIFRvIGdldCBib3RoIGJsYWRlcyBpZGVudGljYWwgSSB1c2Vk IGENCjEyIiBsb25nIHByb2ZpbGUgZ2F1Z2UgKHBsYXN0aWMpIHNvIEkgY291bGQgY29tcGFyZSBv bmUgYmxhZGUgd2l0aCB0aGUNCm90aGVyLiBJIGRpZCBub3QgdXNlIGFueSB0ZW1wbGF0ZXMuIEkg anVzdCAiZXllYmFsbGVkIiBpdCBhcyBmYXIgYXMgdGhlDQpibGFkZSBhaXJmb2lsIGdvZXMuIEFm dGVyIEkgd2FzIGRvbmUgY2FydmluZyBJIHRyaWVkIGJhbGFuY2luZyBhbmQgaXQNCndhcyBzbyBj bG9zZSB0byBwZXJmZWN0IEkganVzdCBsZWZ0IGl0LiBBdHRhY2hlZCBhcmUgc29tZSBwaG90b3Mu DQogICAgDQogICAgRGFuIEhlbHNwZXINCiAgICBQb3BsYXIgR3JvdmUsIElMDQoNCiAgICANCl9f X19fICANCg0KDQogICAgTWNDYWluIG9yIE9iYW1hPyBTdGF5IHVwZGF0ZWQgb24gY292ZXJhZ2Ug b2YgdGhlIFByZXNpZGVudGlhbA0KcmFjZSB3aGlsZSB5b3UgYnJvd3NlIC0gRG93bmxvYWQgTm93 DQo8aHR0cDovL3Rvb2xiYXIuYW9sLmNvbS9lbGVjdGlvbnMvZG93bmxvYWQuaHRtbD9uY2lkPWVt bHdldXNkb3duMDAwMDAwMDENCj4gISANCg0KICAgICANCg0KICAgICAgDQogICAgICANCl9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICAgDQogICAg LCBwcm9wcmlldGFyeQ0KICAgIG9yIG90aGVyd2lzZSBwcml2YXRlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiBJZiB5 b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCBpdCBpbg0KZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlcg0K ICAgIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsLiBBbnkgb3RoZXIgdXNlIG9m IHRoZSBlbWFpbA0KYnkgeW91IGlzIHByb2hpYml0ZWQuDQogICAgIA0KICAgIERhbnNrIC0gRGV1 dHNjaCAtIEVzcGFub2wgLSBGcmFuY2FpcyAtIEl0YWxpYW5vIC0gSmFwYW5lc2UgLQ0KTmVkZXJs YW5kcyAtIE5vcnNrIC0gUG9ydHVndWVzZQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCl9fX19fICANCg0KTmV3IE1hcFF1 ZXN0IExvY2FsIHNob3dzIHdoYXQncyBoYXBwZW5pbmcgYXQgeW91ciBkZXN0aW5hdGlvbi4gRGlu aW5nLA0KTW92aWVzLCBFdmVudHMsIE5ld3MgJiBtb3JlLiBUcnkgaXQgb3V0IQ0KPGh0dHA6Ly9s b2NhbC5tYXBxdWVzdC5jb20vP25jaWQ9ZW1sY250bmV3MDAwMDAwMDI+IA0KDQogDQogDQogDQoN Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0KVGhp cyBtZXNzYWdlIGlzIGZvciB0aGUgZGVzaWduYXRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQgb25seSBhbmQgbWF5IGNv bnRhaW4gcHJpdmlsZWdlZCwgcHJvcHJpZXRhcnkNCm9yIG90aGVyd2lzZSBwcml2YXRlIGluZm9y bWF0aW9uLiBJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCBpdCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0 aGUgc2VuZGVyDQppbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbC4gQW55IG90aGVy IHVzZSBvZiB0aGUgZW1haWwgYnkgeW91IGlzIHByb2hpYml0ZWQuDQoNCkRhbnNrIC0gRGV1dHNj aCAtIEVzcGFub2wgLSBGcmFuY2FpcyAtIEl0YWxpYW5vIC0gSmFwYW5lc2UgLSBOZWRlcmxhbmRz IC0gTm9yc2sgLSBQb3J0dWd1ZXNlDQoNCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion
Date: Oct 13, 2008
Question for you electronics geeks. I have an older Narco ELT (yes, it's the honkin' big orange thing that only xmits on 121.5). When my Piet went over on its nose a few years ago, the ELT didn't go off but the incident was sufficient to make me replace the battery since I'm an FAR-abiding pilot and aircraft owner and that's what the FARs call for. I replaced the battery with a brand new Airtex replacement from Chief Aircraft and reinstalled the ELT in a better location (behind the pilot's seat), secured it on the ground plane (a large flat piece of aluminum behind the pilot's seat), and we're good to go again. Now the problem. About two years later, there is a white powdery corrosion showing up under the ELT, mostly under the battery where it sits on the aluminum ground plane. Mind you, I painted the aluminum with an epoxy paint before the installation and the battery housing is thick orange plastic, so there really isn't anything electrical touching anything metallic. So what am I doing wrong? Should I replace the battery and reinstall the unit with a rubber cushion between it and the ground plane that it's installed on (along with the ELT antenna)? I guess it really doesn't matter since nobody will hear the tree fall in the forest after next February anyway, as long as I stay on 121.5 Mhz ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 13, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion
Possibly a defective/compromised battery housing? There was an AD back in 1977 regarding the batteries. Obviously you are using a newer battery than that, but maybe something to check. If you are going to separate the ELT from the aluminum it is mounted to, maybe just use longer fasteners, aluminum spacers, and rubber/foam "washers" to dampen vibration. Putting an entire sheet of foam/rubber might allow moisture/leakage to accumulate between the battery and mounting plate. I can't speak from personal experience or provide an example of cause for concern; just some thoughts that came to mind. Ryan On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Question for you electronics geeks. I have an older Narco ELT (yes, it's > the honkin' big orange thing that only xmits on 121.5). When my Piet went > over on its nose a few years ago, the ELT didn't go off but the incident was > sufficient to make me replace the battery since I'm an FAR-abiding pilot and > aircraft owner and that's what the FARs call for. > > I replaced the battery with a brand new Airtex replacement from Chief > Aircraft and reinstalled the ELT in a better location (behind the pilot's > seat), secured it on the ground plane (a large flat piece of aluminum behind > the pilot's seat), and we're good to go again. Now the problem. About two > years later, there is a white powdery corrosion showing up under the ELT, > mostly under the battery where it sits on the aluminum ground plane. Mind > you, I painted the aluminum with an epoxy paint before the installation and > the battery housing is thick orange plastic, so there really isn't anything > electrical touching anything metallic. So what am I doing wrong? Should I > replace the battery and reinstall the unit with a rubber cushion between it > and the ground plane that it's installed on (along with the ELT antenna)? > > I guess it really doesn't matter since nobody will hear the tree fall in > the forest after next February anyway, as long as I stay on 121.5 Mhz ;o) > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Prop Carving Report, run-up report
Date: Oct 13, 2008
Apparently this blade type will behave somewhat like a variable pitch prop. As the rpm and power increase the tip bends foreward flattening the pitch thus becoming a "climb" prop and when leveling out and reducing power it settles back into the higher pitch it was carved to, thus increasing the speed per rpm. How much effect will, of course, depend on the stiffness of the blade, in turn dependant on the thickness and the material. Some woods are resist bending more than others. Clif Steve, As for the advantages to the scimitar shape I don't really know. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: YouTube video of first engine start
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi all, Here is the link to my just-posted YouTube video. This is actually the third engine start of that morning. I am going to put the real first one up there tonight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZeCST8Fs7Q Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Saturday over Ohio and Lake Erie
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Was great to meet up with Shad and he's a true-cross country aviator, Pietenpol style. The only guy I think that could give him a run for his iron-butt money would be Jack "nonstop, unrefueld" Phillips. I rec'd some photos from Shad and have a few of my own and will post them after I get some work done here up to my lunch hour. Shad was called Chad by one of the guys at the airport we were at and he said "I'm used to it, I've gotten that all of my life." I tried to empathize with Shad saying that people have called me Mike Guy a million times too so I understood. Had fun flying with you Chad ! Guy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion
Oscar, My plane is made from aluminium (A Welsh buddy demands that both i's be pronounced) and I use CorrosionX throughout. CorrosionX attacks corrosion and prevents it. It will seep into any crack or crevice. CorrosionX is about $15 per can and you probably only need a squrt. Next time you see me at the airport I will loan you a half ounce or so. (Joe Paduh or Steve and Freda also have some if I am not around.) I believe in CorrosionX almost a much as I believe in Marvel Mystery Oil. Indeed I sent my 7 year old Grandson, Nicky, into the tail with a can to get places I could not get to. I use it on pretty much any piece of aluminIum in the plane. I put a drop on each stainless steel fastener In order to slow dissimilar metal corrosion. It is really good on electrical items as well. Not sure what it does to wood. Be warned, You have to get it completely off of any surface if you want to paint. It will totally mess up any paint job. Blue Skies Steve D Beech straight 35 Alamo City, GRT ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Date: Monday, October 13, 2008 22:04 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion > > > Question for you electronics geeks. I have an older Narco ELT (yes, it's the honkin' big orange thing that only xmits on 121.5). When my > Piet went over on its nose a few years ago, the ELT didn't go off > but the incident was sufficient to make me replace the battery > since I'm an FAR-abiding pilot and aircraft owner and that's what > the FARs call for. > > I replaced the battery with a brand new Airtex replacement from > Chief Aircraft and reinstalled the ELT in a better location > (behind the pilot's seat), secured it on the ground plane (a large > flat piece of aluminum behind the pilot's seat), and we're good to > go again. Now the problem. About two years later, there is a > white powdery corrosion showing up under the ELT, mostly under the > battery where it sits on the aluminum ground plane. Mind you, I > painted the aluminum with an epoxy paint before the installation > and the battery housing is thick orange plastic, so there really > isn't anything electrical touching anything metallic. So what am > I doing wrong? Should I replace the battery and reinstall the > unit with a rubber cushion between it and the ground plane that > it's installed on (along with the ELT antenna)? > > I guess it really doesn't matter since nobody will hear the tree > fall in the forest after next February anyway, as long as I stay > on 121.5 Mhz ;o) > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A little help, please
I'm missing out on some of the list benefits and would appreciate some advi ce. - 1. All of the posts from amsafetyc(at)aol.com come across as a series of jumbl ed letters, numbers and punctuation marks. Completely unintelligible. - 2. None of the talked about photos come across. Pictures that others ars re ferencing aren't accessible to me. - Please help me find the path to enlightenment! - Larry -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A little help, please
From: glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Q2FuIHlvdSByZWFkIHRoaXM/ICBJIGtub3cgYSBsb3Qgb2YgaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGFyZSBzZW50 IGZyb20gYSBCbGFja2JlcnJ5LiAgU28gaXMgdGhpcyBvbmUuIA0KDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVy aXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpG cm9tOiBMYXdyZW5jZSBXaWxsaWFtcyA8bG5hd21zQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogVHVlLCAx NCBPY3QgMjAwOCAwNjoxNToyMiANClRvOiBQaWV0bGlzdDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IEEgbGl0dGxlIGhlbHAsIHBsZWFzZQ0K DQoNCkknbSBtaXNzaW5nIG91dCBvbiBzb21lIG9mIHRoZSBsaXN0IGJlbmVmaXRzIGFuZCB3b3Vs ZCBhcHByZWNpYXRlIHNvbWUgYWR2aWNlLg0KoA0KMS4gQWxsIG9mIHRoZSBwb3N0cyBmcm9tIGFt c2FmZXR5Y0Bhb2wuY29tIGNvbWUgYWNyb3NzIGFzIGEgc2VyaWVzIG9mIGp1bWJsZWQgbGV0dGVy cywgbnVtYmVycyBhbmQgcHVuY3R1YXRpb24gbWFya3MuIENvbXBsZXRlbHkgdW5pbnRlbGxpZ2li bGUuDQqgDQoyLiBOb25lIG9mIHRoZSB0YWxrZWQgYWJvdXQgcGhvdG9zIGNvbWUgYWNyb3NzLiBQ aWN0dXJlcyB0aGF0IG90aGVycyBhcnMgcmVmZXJlbmNpbmcgYXJlbid0IGFjY2Vzc2libGUgdG8g bWUuDQqgDQpQbGVhc2UgaGVscCBtZSBmaW5kIHRoZSBwYXRoIHRvIGVubGlnaHRlbm1lbnQhDQqg DQpMYXJyeQ0KoAoKCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: A little help, please
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Larry, Here's another series of letters, numbers and punctuation marks for you - hopefully they aren't jumbled. I know I've mentioned this a few times before, but here goes again. For those that receive the "digest" version of the list (once a day), the attached photos are stripped. They are not stripped from the "live" version of the list, where you might receive 30 or so emails a day on a busy day. However, all posted messages WITH attachments can be viewed if you go to the Matronics Pietenpol Forum. Here's a link (or maybe a path to enlightenment?): http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=2ed4da73b54366540c0d905c0 d06a3a6> &sid=2ed4da73b54366540c0d905c0d06a3a6 Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: A little help, please
Got you 5 square, (5 of 5 for loud, and 5 of 5 for clear) Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:45 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A little help, please > Can you read this? I know a lot of his messages are sent from a > Blackberry. So is this one. > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Williams < > > Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 06:15:22 > To: Pietlist< > Subject: Pietenpol-List: A little help, please > > > I'm missing out on some of the list benefits and would appreciate some advice. > ? > 1. All of the posts from amsafetyc(at)aol.com come across as a series of jumbled letters, numbers and punctuation marks. Completely unintelligible. > ? > 2. None of the talked about photos come across. Pictures that others ars referencing aren't accessible to me. > ? > Please help me find the path to enlightenment! > ? > Larry > ? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jonathan Ragle <jon95gt(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Prop Carving Report
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Wow. This is something that I would never do but I am glad that there are still artists (such as yourself) that will. That is a beatiful prop. Just beautiful. Jon tDate: Sun=2C 12 Oct 2008 18:42:15 -0400From: helspersew(at)aol.comHello Good People!I finished carving my prop last week. I made it from five boards of 3/4" ash. This has been without a doubt the most rewarding part of the whol e project=2C because it is a work of art that I thought I was not really ca pable of doing. I used the "Jerry Thornhill" method of prop carving. Last y ear at OSH I watched him carve the prop for the EAA Bleriot replica. All po wer tools. The first step is to figure out what pitch you want. Then after some simple calculations=2C lines can be drawn along the leading and traili ng edge for guidance. First you use an electric chain saw to horse most of the material off. Then comes the 7" diameter angle grinder with the rubber backing pad with 60 grit paper=2C Then last comes the 5" diameter DeWalt vi brating/rotating sander with 150 grit paper. The only hand tool I used was a metal file to take off the high spots=2C because there is such a differen ce in hardness between the spring and summer wood of the ash tree that it l eaves "waves" depending on the grain direction. To get both blades identica l I used a 12" long profile gauge (plastic) so I could compare one blade wi th the other. I did not use any templates. I just "eyeballed" it as far as the blade airfoil goes. After I was done carving I tried balancing and it w as so close to perfect I just left it. Attached are some photos.Dan Helsper Poplar Grove=2C IL McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while yo u browse - Download Now! _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part of your life. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Hello! Have a T-Hanger in Santa Maria, Ca. $163.00 per month.... Have a Cessna 140, building Pietenpol, 3 cars, 3 Motorcycles, and a bunch of junk. Cheapest I know of in Southern Ca.! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet? Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jack Phillips - contact info?
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Can someone give me Jack Phillip's contact info. - I seem to have misplaced it and his full e-mail address doesn't show up when he posts. Thanks. -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8732#208732 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
Finding the going rate for hangar space is usually a matter of asking around. It doesn't really matter what they charge elsewhere when you want a hangar near home. That said, Here in Utah rent is between $125 for a shade hangar, up to $330 for a private 40x30. It is literally more money to build a hangar than my plane costs. My piet, built in 1997 cost me about $5000. I bought a doorless chicken-coop type hangar for $5000 a year after finishing my piet, and consider myself very fortunate. In 2008 dollars I bet I could build a A-65 powered piet for $10,000 and buy the same hangar for another $10,000. Steve Eldredge NC9406K 47' Stinson 108-2 stinson(at)byu.edu -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet? Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
For what its worth I am building mine in my basement so no hangar rental needed for the build period so far I suspect I will be moving into a hangar in the next 12 to 18 months for mounting the engine, assembly and painting of the larger parts. For right now I am staying in the basement. I have the fuse structure pretty much complete with the exception of the metal parts an engine and some instruments and working on tail feather with vertical stabilizer complete, rudder and elevator L and R almost finished moving on with the horizontal stab next. I would guess with the quick math in my head that I have a shade over 2K invested at this point. I am about 20 months into the build process with summers being the slow time, now that fall is here and yard work diminishing I am back in the build more and more.Budget wise a little over $100.00 a month on the average, that will increase significantly when I move into a hangar. John In a message dated 10/14/2008 12:30:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steve(at)byu.edu writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Steve Eldredge Finding the going rate for hangar space is usually a matter of asking around. It doesn't really matter what they charge elsewhere when you want a hangar near home. That said, Here in Utah rent is between $125 for a shade hangar, up to $330 for a private 40x30. It is literally more money to build a hangar than my plane costs. My piet, built in 1997 cost me about $5000. I bought a doorless chicken-coop type hangar for $5000 a year after finishing my piet, and consider myself very fortunate. In 2008 dollars I bet I could build a A-65 powered piet for $10,000 and buy the same hangar for another $10,000. Steve Eldredge NC9406K 47' Stinson 108-2 stinson(at)byu.edu -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet? --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Tom Anderson" Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
I spent about 14K building mine including an engine overhaul. Hangar is $195/ mo. 1 million liability insur. is $550/ year. Avgas--autogas, depends how much you fly per year. I do my own inspections and sign off and charge myself double every year what I did the previous year. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Tom, I built my Pietenpol for about $15,000. Of that $7500 was the engine (I rebuilt a 65 Continental basically sparing no expense - new cylinders, new camshaft etc). I'm in Apex NC currently paying $125 a month for a hangar that I share with an Ercoupe and an RV-4. Hangar rent varies all over the place. At RDU, a T-hanger goes for $400 a month. At Sanford (TTA) a T-hangar is $300, if you can get one. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet? Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: YouTube video of first engine start
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Outstanding progress Dan---wonderful to see her all together and with the engine running a prop that you built yourself ! That is going to be one long flight to Brodhead for you. Can't wait to see you on the grass there with a crowd of admirers and question-askers surrounding you. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jack Phillips - contact info?
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I can probably do it. Work # is listed below Home # is 919-363-9459 Cell # is 919-427-4440 Work email is jack.phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com Home email is pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:21 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack Phillips - contact info? Can someone give me Jack Phillip's contact info. - I seem to have misplaced it and his full e-mail address doesn't show up when he posts. Thanks. -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8732#208732 _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Hangar $
I am charging my hangar tenant $220.00 per month and that is heated! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
I've built my Pietenpol entirely of Douglas Fir and Okoume plywood bought locally. I have all the basic structure built and a used A-65 I'm planning to hang on the front with a used Sensenich prop. I was surprised to see I'm already over $10,000 and I don't have it covered yet. I do have a lot of extra continental parts I collected before I bought the engine I plan to use, and some tool rental that I could rationalize away. It'll probably be around 12K by the time I'm finished if I subtract out the parts that won't make the first flight but will be kept for the first overhaul. Hangers at my airport rent between 250-300 a month (east central Florida) I'm flying the crap out of a Baby Ace I only paid $8000 for. I keep telling myself its all about the journey. Building a Piet isn't the cheapest way to get in the air, but as others have said, you can pay as you go, and spread out over the 5 year or so average build time the monthly payment isn't so bad. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Tom Anderson wrote: > > Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? > > Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? > > -------- > Location: Eastern N.C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
Ben, I have found the journey to so far as being highly rewarding and anticipate flying as being the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Even if its not I still have the enjoyment of the build. I am powering with an )235 108 hp Lycoming which has a major not more then 600 hours ago so all I need is to have the crank checked then its on to reassembly with gaskets, hoses and replacement of consumables and or questionables which who knows what that will cost John In a message dated 10/14/2008 2:20:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet I've built my Pietenpol entirely of Douglas Fir and Okoume plywood bought locally. I have all the basic structure built and a used A-65 I'm planning to hang on the front with a used Sensenich prop. I was surprised to see I'm already over $10,000 and I don't have it covered yet. I do have a lot of extra continental parts I collected before I bought the engine I plan to use, and some tool rental that I could rationalize away. It'll probably be around 12K by the time I'm finished if I subtract out the parts that won't make the first flight but will be kept for the first overhaul. Hangers at my airport rent between 250-300 a month (east central Florida) I'm flying the crap out of a Baby Ace I only paid $8000 for. I keep telling myself its all about the journey. Building a Piet isn't the cheapest way to get in the air, but as others have said, you can pay as you go, and spread out over the 5 year or so average build time the monthly payment isn't so bad. Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Tom Anderson wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Tom Anderson" > > Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? > > Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? > > -------- > Location: Eastern N.C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 > > > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
In a message dated 10/14/2008 3:14:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com writes: I am powering with an )235 108 hp Lycoming which has a major not more then 600 hours ago so all I need is to have the crank checked then its on to reassembly with gaskets, hoses and replacement of consumables and or questionables which who knows what that will cost John John, hope your luck is better than mine. I have a 475SMOH 320 for another project. Sent it for prop strike inspection. That went fine except that it needed turning. So $648 for machine work, and now I'll spend another $1300 or so on parts to reassemble as two of my drive gears are bad. Just can't win sometimes! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jack Phillips - contact info?
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Thanks, Jack. -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8776#208776 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
Boyce, Mine was a prop strike buy also, reported as minimal, I am not taking chances with crank issues on that. Visual by an A&P suggested it was probably in good shape to the guy I purchased it from, checked run out all was reported in good shape. Having been burned before on seemingly great deals I am having it inspected by a shop that can magnaflux it and give me an accurate read on the wear and life. just something about flying a piece of junk I don't want to be flying it when it reaches its full life potential of becoming a boat anchor.... better to be alive and broke than dead and broke, I think? John In a message dated 10/14/2008 3:27:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com writes: In a message dated 10/14/2008 3:14:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com writes: I am powering with an )235 108 hp Lycoming which has a major not more then 600 hours ago so all I need is to have the crank checked then its on to reassembly with gaskets, hoses and replacement of consumables and or questionables which who knows what that will cost John John, hope your luck is better than mine. I have a 475SMOH 320 for another project. Sent it for prop strike inspection. That went fine except that it needed turning. So $648 for machine work, and now I'll spend another $1300 or so on parts to reassemble as two of my drive gears are bad. Just can't win sometimes! Boyce (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
My hanger in Hawley, Minnesota (04Y) lighted runway, new FBO building, hang er space is $75.00 per month. - Ken - --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Dave Abramson wrote: From: Dave Abramson <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet? Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 10:26 AM Hello! Have a T-Hanger in Santa Maria, Ca. $163.00 per month.... Have a Cessna 140, building Pietenpol, 3 cars, 3 Motorcycles, and a bunch of junk. Cheapest I know of in Southern Ca.! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet? Please forgive the newbie, uninitiated questioning, but for those that have been through the process from start to finish and are actually flying a Piet, what does it [/i]really cost to build one? Also, what are some of you typically paying for hangar space? -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8718#208718 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
I'm with you John. Same approach for me. Mine was not a prop strike, but a prop "drag" The engine was off, and prop feathered when the plane came in gear up. Didn't even bend the prop, just ground the tip a little. As I said the PS inspection went fine, except the crank pins had some minor wear and grooves they wanted ground out. Back to the Pietenpol costs, someone on Barnstormers has a Pietenpol fuselage from a aircraft that was a flier, for next to nothing $1500 I think..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: YouTube video of first engine start
Dan, That is just too kool. I can wait to see it in July along with your prop carving demonstration. BTW can you send me a pic of your wood struts I am considering going with ash struts and gear. Thanks John In a message dated 10/14/2008 6:31:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, helspersew(at)aol.com writes: _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZeCST8Fs7Q_ (mhtml:{7146A197-287F-4711-A06D-80691241181C}mid://00000000/!x-usc:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZeCST8Fs7Q) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: Hangar $
About 6 miles West of the edge of San Antonio I pay $275 for a lit hanger with a a/ced small office and running water (hot water is provided by a hose lying against the west metal wall.) Best deal is the community of pilots and mechanics. Steve D. 35 ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:46 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hangar $ > I am charging my hangar tenant $220.00 per month and that is heated! > > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your > destination. > Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: buying second hand plans..
OK, with my Mustang II plans, came a sign off sheet for legal transfer of building rights for my plan set. Does the same exist for Pietenpol plans? I have someone nearby who has a set for sale. The little bit of cost savings isn't enough to be worth legal problems down the road.... Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What does it REALLY cost to build and operate a Piet?
I think Dad has 12,000 in his piet.- He once said that about 20 -30% was shipping cost.- Local suppliers can save you a bunch of money.- If you are lucky enough to have a friend who also would want to build a piet, or a nother wooden airplane you could save a bunch by ordering at the same time and split the shipping, would be a lot cheaper, it cost the same to ship 2- 3 sheets of plywood as it does 1. I am lucky enough to get dads left over s craps and some big pieces of ply and spruce to use on my Jungster. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Big-engined Piet
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Just stumbled across this "Pietenpol" for sale (looks to be mostly GN-1, with a different tail and some extra A-frame struts up front). It is apparently powered by an O-300 engine (150 HP?). It is listed for sale by a US firm, but has a Canadian registration letters in the photos. http://www.bowaviation.com/viewaircraft.asp?aircraftID=177 Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
Date: Oct 14, 2008
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
I have never heard of "Legal transfer aproval"- The only legality I know of is copy rights and illegal reproduction of plans for resale.- I am not sure that there is or is not a legal isue there.- Personaly, I would not worry about it. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
Thanks Shad! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
bikemike your message didn't come through--no text ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 14, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
The other thing to consider is that buying the plans supports the efforts of the Pietenpol family in continuing to make these plans available to the community at large. For $180 you can get the complete package of plans (Air Camper plans, Supplemental drawings, 3-piece wing). I don't know what the plans you are being offered would cost, but spending a little more to get them from the Pietenpol family may be something to consider. Besides, you will have plenty of opportunities to save money as you build your Piet. Have a good night, Ryan On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 3:51 PM, wrote: > OK, with my Mustang II plans, came a sign off sheet for legal > transfer of building rights for my plan set. Does the same exist for > Pietenpol plans? I have someone nearby who has a set for sale. The little > bit of cost savings isn't enough to be worth legal problems down the > road.... > Boyce > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Big-engined Piet
Date: Oct 14, 2008
That's George Noble's plane here on the coast; http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepages/ccarcs/aspscripts/en/current.asp Check out the max wt!! Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Big-engined Piet Just stumbled across this "Pietenpol" for sale (looks to be mostly GN-1, with a different tail and some extra A-frame struts up front). It is apparently powered by an O-300 engine (150 HP?). It is listed for sale by a US firm, but has a Canadian registration letters in the photos. http://www.bowaviation.com/viewaircraft.asp?aircraftID=177 Bill C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 10/13/2008 6:42 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
Date: Oct 14, 2008
The plan set you buy entitles you to build ONE airplane. If no airplane has been built from this set then you are morally OK to use them. Otherwise buy a new set. You wouldn't want to piss off your personal Karma God would you? :-) Clif .. The other thing to consider is that buying the plans supports the efforts of the Pietenpol family in continuing to make these plans available to the community at large. Have a good night, Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Subject: Re: buying second hand plans..
The set in question is "new" complete with 3 pc wing, and corvair supplements for $75. It's on Barnstormers at the moment...Thanks for the feedback! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion
Date: Oct 14, 2008
Oscar, I would get rid of the ELT. You will have to clean up the corrossion issue anyway and remount the new frequency model in the place of the old one. I recently became a member on this group (matronics) and I am going to build another Piet but this time Model A powered. I still have N2431and did a overhaul on the Franklin. I am now in the unemployed group (i.e. retired) and need to have something to keep me busy. Ernie Moreno Independence, Or. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 7:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion > > > Question for you electronics geeks. I have an older Narco ELT (yes, it's > the honkin' big orange thing that only xmits on 121.5). When my Piet went > over on its nose a few years ago, the ELT didn't go off but the incident > was sufficient to make me replace the battery since I'm an FAR-abiding > pilot and aircraft owner and that's what the FARs call for. > > I replaced the battery with a brand new Airtex replacement from Chief > Aircraft and reinstalled the ELT in a better location (behind the pilot's > seat), secured it on the ground plane (a large flat piece of aluminum > behind the pilot's seat), and we're good to go again. Now the problem. > About two years later, there is a white powdery corrosion showing up under > the ELT, mostly under the battery where it sits on the aluminum ground > plane. Mind you, I painted the aluminum with an epoxy paint before the > installation and the battery housing is thick orange plastic, so there > really isn't anything electrical touching anything metallic. So what am I > doing wrong? Should I replace the battery and reinstall the unit with a > rubber cushion between it and the ground plane that it's installed on > (along with the ELT antenna)? > > I guess it really doesn't matter since nobody will hear the tree fall in > the forest after next February anyway, as long as I stay on 121.5 Mhz ;o) > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Narco ELT-10 battery corrosion
One of the things with that, Ernie, is that replacement of the entire ELT (especially assuming an upgrade to a more current model) will be far more expensive than just replacing the battery (if that is the issue, or if Oscar feels he needs to do that). In addition, as of right now there is no requirement stating that you have to replace an ELT that broadcasts on 121.5/243 mhz with one that can also broadcast on the satellite-monitored digital 406 mhz frequency. This change, as of now, only reflects the fact that satellites will only monitor 406. Standard air and ground resources will still be monitoring the older freqs. Personally, I have never heard of anyone flying out of the general aviation airports I frequent having their ELT detected by satellite. Either the Unicom/Tower/CAP checks up on the transmissions from those frequencies and thats how you find out they were triggered (9 times out of 10 a hard landing). Either way, it's up to Oscar. His SASO missions (stability and support ops) in his area have gone pretty well. He's been providing ground support in the area for a while. All in all he has put forth a solid TACO presence in his AOR. Unless some new foe rears his ugly head, I think Oscar ought to be good to go. ;) Semper Gumby. Only one more day until I completely own my own butt, for good! Ryan On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Ernie Moreno wrote: > ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com> > > Oscar, I would get rid of the ELT. You will have to clean up the corrossion > issue anyway and remount the new frequency model in the place of the old > one. I recently became a member on this group (matronics) and I am going to > build another Piet but this time Model A powered. I still have N2431and did > a overhaul on the Franklin. I am now in the unemployed group (i.e. retired) > and need to have something to keep me busy. > > Ernie Moreno > Independence, Or. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: YouTube video of first engine start
Date: Oct 15, 2008
Dan, great video. I notice you had all the proper procedures in place and had a fire extinguisher placed at the ready. When I did the startup on my A65 after the rebuild (new carb, airbox, exhausts, etc.) I did the same thing and was glad because I had fueled it with autogas and the Stromberg didn't like that, leaking fuel and flooding the airbox. Had a fire broken out I would have needed the extinguisher in a hurry and it would have needed to be ready at hand. With avgas, no flooding and no worries and I can start the engine almost on the first flip every time, even without impulse couplers on either mag. 41CC is running strong, flying well (except for the corrosion around the ELT!) and only needs a few things looked at when I get some hangar time. At the moment, we are flying patrol to maintain peace during these times of economic distress and political upheaval. I've seen no riots or heard of no financiers jumping off of building ledges, so I assume that the mission is being effective. I shall continue to fly patrol without letting up! Ernie, good to hear that you're going to build another Piet, but how in the world are you going to fit another project into your hangar/garage??? Last time I was there you had the Piet, Tri-Pacer, Gypsy, and something else in there already! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down?
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2008
...just wondering... -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8886#208886 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down?
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 15, 2008
Thanks, Gene. I've got a couple of wooden boats in my backyard right now that I built and no matter how particular I was during the construction process, they both have ended up with some wood rot/fungus here and there. It's usually from the fiberglass cloth/epoxy pulling up from the wood. I'm thinking the fabric covering on an aircraft my provide a bit more protection... -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8904#208904 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Oct 15, 2008
Subject: Re: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down?
I left mine out in the sun, snow and ice for over a year. I was happy to get it in a hangar as soon as I could afford one. I always worried about hail, high winds, curious fingers, deep snow, etc. Things turned out all right however, with no major damage or loss. The wood prop seemed to suffer the most weathering. Steve e. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Anderson Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down? Thanks, Gene. I've got a couple of wooden boats in my backyard right now that I built and no matter how particular I was during the construction process, they both have ended up with some wood rot/fungus here and there. It's usually from the fiberglass cloth/epoxy pulling up from the wood. I'm thinking the fabric covering on an aircraft my provide a bit more protection... -------- Location: Eastern N.C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8904#208904 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down?
I pay $250.00/mo. Cnd and that is why both my planes are up for sale now.Wh en I get them =0Asold I'll be looking for something I can leave out for a s eason then trailer it or just leave it out all year round.=0A=0A=0A=0Ado no t archive=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Gene & Tammy <zhar vey(at)bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Oc tober 15, 2008 12:29:23 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone leave thei "Gene & Tammy" =0A=0AGood question Tom.- I don't l eave mine out doors as I have always had a =0Ahanger and hangers here in Te nnessee are cheap.- In Alaska, (where I'm from) =0Amost planes spend thei r lives out doors and the only time their under cover =0Ais while their bei ng worked on.- Most of the early bush planes were open =0Acockpit, wood f ramed and covered in cotton.- From what I've been lead to =0Aunderstand, they did quite well.- After all, the wood is varnished and the =0Afabric is painted.- Not unlike a wooden boat.- Wood boats are painted or =0Ava rnished and the decks are covered with fabric that is painted.=0AAs I remem ber, Pilots in Alaska figure their plane would need recovering =0Aabout eve ry dozen years or so, due to UV effects on the fabric.=0ADo not consider th e above information to be anything more than hearsay, as, =0Aas I said, I d on't have any personal experience with leaving my Piet out. =0AI'm only pas sing on what I have read and heard.- It will be interesting to =0Ahear fr om someone that has left their Piet out.=0AGene in Tennessee=0A=0ADo Not Ar -=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Drall ======== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 2008
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down?
This is a low cost alternative to leaving your plane outside..... http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineered-structures/ I got one for my brother about 6 years ago to keep hist fully restored 40's John Deere tractor protected. It still looks like new (shelter that is, but tractor looks like new too which means the shelter must be working). I think I paid about $1300 for it. Of course an aviation size would be a little more. I know of at least one person that keeps their Piet in one of these. Food for thought. On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Tom Anderson wrote: > tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com> > > ...just wondering... > > -------- > Location: Eastern N.C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8886#208886 > > -- Glenn Thomas Storrs, CT http://www.flyingwood.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: alternative shelter/lower cost
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineered-structures/ <http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineered-structures/> These are impressive for the cost alternatives to hangaring or the costly effects leaving your plane tied down outside. Don't you have something very similar to this in NJ Walt Evans and you've had good things to say about it ? A friend in KY has a Grumman and Corby stored in one of these structures on his farmstrip and he's also had good things to say about it INCLUDING the phenomenally MINIMAL damage to his planes (virtually none to the Starlet) after the remnants of Hurricane Ike roared thru. His Grumman had some horizontal stab damage but nothing like his buddies had in actual airport hangars that collapsed---crushing many planes in the state of KY. These shelters appear to be a decent low-cost option if it works for your situation. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone leave their Piet uncovered on a tie-down?
From: "Tom Anderson" <tomanderson_nc(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Thanks, Glenn. That may very well be an option. -------- Location: Wilson, NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9008#209008 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: alternative shelter/lower cost
When I was in Illinois, supply and demand had driven hangar rents to be quite expensive (relative to what I was paying in Florida). One of the seemingly popular solutions for the farm strips was a clamshell hangar. They're corrugated metal over a t-shaped structure. IIRC, there was a foot or two of open air along the bottom edge; the siding didn't go all the way to the ground (Although I guess it could). One part of the structure hinged up to get the plane in and out. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov> >Sent: Oct 16, 2008 7:42 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: alternative shelter/lower cost > >http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineered-structures/ ><http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineered-structures/> > > >These are impressive for the cost alternatives to hangaring or the >costly effects leaving your plane tied down outside. > >Don't you have something very similar to this in NJ Walt Evans and >you've had good things to say about it ? > >A friend in KY has a Grumman and Corby stored in one of these structures >on his farmstrip and he's also had >good things to say about it INCLUDING the phenomenally MINIMAL damage to >his planes (virtually none to the Starlet) >after the remnants of Hurricane Ike roared thru. His Grumman had some >horizontal stab damage but nothing like >his buddies had in actual airport hangars that collapsed---crushing many >planes in the state of KY. These shelters >appear to be a decent low-cost option if it works for your situation. > >Mike C. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Subject: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
From: glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com
Date: Oct 16, 2008
SSdkIGxpa2Ugb25lLg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0K DQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogSGVsc3BlclNld0Bhb2wuY29tDQoN CkRhdGU6IFRodSwgMTYgT2N0IDIwMDggMTA6MjI6MTQgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1h dHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogUHJvcCBjYXJ2aW5nIEhvdy1U byBDRCBjb21pbmcgc29vbg0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: alternative shelter/lower cost
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Reading the many options and costs of hangars makes me want to interject my own opinion on the subject. Having been in the sport for thirty years I'v e come to notice that the guys who seem the most concerned on maintaining t he appearance and structure of their aircraft at an economical balance use door-less T-hangars of some variety or other. Truly the three elements we want to avoid coming in contact with our aircraft are precipitation=2C UV a nd heavy wind. The secondary items (mice=2C birds=2C thieves etc) don't se em to care whether there is a door in front of your aircraft or not. The b ig down-side to a hermetically sealed hangar with a door (along with higher cost and possible difficulty of operation) is that it is very difficult to adequately ventilate in the summertime which can expose your pride and joy to temperatures well above ambient for many hours at a time. An airplane in an open T-Hangar remains the driest as well as coolest. Not just the ch eapest solution but also the most available in the country and the easiest to build. I keep my Stinson 108 in a T-Hanger in Southern Ontario. It is tied down a nd chalked. I sleep well during snow and thunderstorms (even hail). I hav e a nose cover and pre-heater for winter ops and my annual hangar cost is $ 2100.00 Canadian. (one third of this cost is paid for in my reduced hull i nsurance). The time and expense to recover a fabric aircraft that has been exposed to the elements is equivalent to five years of hangar rent. I jus tify the cost because I feel my airplane will last indefinitely since it is n't exposed to the elements. Just another opinion. Keep building and flyi ng. Scott Knowlton Burlington Ontario Slow Piet Builder > Date: Thu=2C 16 Oct 2008 09:59:22 -0400> From: ashcan(at)earthlink.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: alternative shel thlink.net>> > When I was in Illinois=2C supply and demand had driven hanga r rents to be quite expensive (relative to what I was paying in Florida). O ne of the seemingly popular solutions for the farm strips was a clamshell h angar. They're corrugated metal over a t-shaped structure. IIRC=2C there wa s a foot or two of open air along the bottom edge=3B the siding didn't go a ll the way to the ground (Although I guess it could). One part of the struc ture hinged up to get the plane in and out.> > > Jim > > -----Original Mess age-----> >From: "Cuy=2C Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.g ov>> >Sent: Oct 16=2C 2008 7:42 AM> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >Sub ject: Pietenpol-List: alternative shelter/lower cost > >> >http://www.shelt erlogic.com/engineered-structures/> ><http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineere d-structures/> > > > > > >These are impressive for the cost alternatives to hangaring or the> >costly effects leaving your plane tied down outside. > > > >Don't you have something very similar to this in NJ Walt Evans and> >y ou've had good things to say about it ?> > > >A friend in KY has a Grumman and Corby stored in one of these structures> >on his farmstrip and he's als o had> >good things to say about it INCLUDING the phenomenally MINIMAL dama ge to> >his planes (virtually none to the Starlet)> >after the remnants of Hurricane Ike roared thru. His Grumman had some> >horizontal stab damage bu t nothing like> >his buddies had in actual airport hangars that collapsed-- -crushing many> >planes in the state of KY. These shelters> >appear to be a decent low-cost option if it works for your situation. > > > >Mike C. > > =============> > > _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Dan, Sign me up, I doubt I will ever venture into that aspect of building however, one never knows do one ? The seeing it and learning about it is certainly worth the price of admission plus it makes a nice addition to my DVD collection of builders and tipsters in action. Just a fan of the craft! John Recine In a message dated 10/16/2008 10:35:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com writes: I'd like one. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ____________________________________ From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:22:14 EDT Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a = very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. &nbs= p;My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some= nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as w= ho might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ____________________________________ New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di= 100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid= =emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! _http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List_ (mip://0522f2c8/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List") (mip://0522f2c8/3D"http://forums.matronics.com") _http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (mip://0522f2c8/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution") ============ **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Me too please. Scott Knowlton From: HelsperSew(at)aol.comDate: Thu=2C 16 Oct 2008 10:22:14 -0400Subject: Pie tenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soonTo: pietenpol-list@matronics .com Hello all=2C I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about maki ng available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Too l" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detaile d essay describing this entire procedure=2C including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it=2C at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove=2C IL. New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x 1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntn ew00000002">Try it out! _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Dan, Please put me on your list. Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Dan, Add me to the list. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: 10/16/2008 10:26:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
I would walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 16, 2008
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: alternative shelter/lower cost
Yeah Mike, It used to be Cover-it, but guess it got taken over by another. look here http://www.sheltersofnewengland.com/ I've seen some home made shelters blow down, but never a Cover-It. Still standing since 2002 walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: alternative shelter/lower cost http://www.shelterlogic.com/engineered-structures/ These are impressive for the cost alternatives to hangaring or the costly effects leaving your plane tied down outside. Don't you have something very similar to this in NJ Walt Evans and you've had good things to say about it ? A friend in KY has a Grumman and Corby stored in one of these structures on his farmstrip and he's also had good things to say about it INCLUDING the phenomenally MINIMAL damage to his planes (virtually none to the Starlet) after the remnants of Hurricane Ike roared thru. His Grumman had some horizontal stab damage but nothing like his buddies had in actual airport hangars that collapsed---crushing many planes in the state of KY. These shelters appear to be a decent low-cost option if it works for your situation. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 16, 2008
I would be interested...Ed Grentzer Do not archive >From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:22:14 EDT > >Hello all, > >I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about >making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power > Tool" >method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed >essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is >to at >some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee >(to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete >information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who >might >possibly be interested in getting one of these. > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > >**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your >destination. >Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out >(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bob(at)cozyworld.net
Subject: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Count me in! Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM =C2- Hello all, =C2- I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about maki ng available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Too l"=C2-method of=C2- prop carving. I am in the process of composing a ve ry detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. =C2-My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants i t, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting a ll of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. =C2- Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x 1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntn ew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Q291bnQgbWUgaW4gdG9vLg0KDQpKZXJlbXkgaW4gRGFsbGFzDQpTZW50IHZpYSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5 IGZyb20gVC1Nb2JpbGUNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGJvYkBj b3p5d29ybGQubmV0DQoNCkRhdGU6IFRodSwgMTYgT2N0IDIwMDggMTU6MjA6NTggDQpUbzogPHBp ZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6 IFByb3AgY2FydmluZyBIb3ctVG8gQ0QgY29taW5nIHNvb24NCg0KDQpDb3VudCBtZSBpbiENCg0K Qm9iIEhhc3NlbA0KU2FudGEgRmUsIE5NDQoNCsKgDQpIZWxsbyBhbGwsDQrCoA0KSSBoYXZlIGJl ZW4gY29udGFjdGVkIGJ5IHNldmVyYWwgb2YgdGhlIHN1YnNjcmliZXJzIHRvIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBh Ym91dCBtYWtpbmcgYXZhaWxhYmxlIG1vcmUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gY29uY2VybmluZyB0aGUgIkpl cnJ5IFRob3JuaGlsbC1BbGwgUG93ZXIgVG9vbCLCoG1ldGhvZCBvZsKgIHByb3AgY2FydmluZy4g SSBhbSBpbiB0aGUgcHJvY2VzcyBvZiBjb21wb3NpbmcgYSB2ZXJ5IGRldGFpbGVkIGVzc2F5IGRl c2NyaWJpbmcgdGhpcyBlbnRpcmUgcHJvY2VkdXJlLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgbWFueSBwaG90b3MuIMKg TXkgcGxhbiBpcyB0byBhdCBzb21lIHBvaW50IG1ha2UgdGhpcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgdG8gYW55b25l IHdobyB3YW50cyBpdCwgYXQgc29tZSBub21pbmFsIGZlZSAodG8gYmUgZGV0ZXJtaW5lZCBsYXRl cikuIEkgYW0gdGhpbmtpbmcgb2YgcHV0dGluZyBhbGwgb2YgdGhpcyBjb21wbGV0ZSBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBvbiBhIENELiBSaWdodCBub3cgSSBhbSBhc2tpbmcgZm9yIGZlZWRiYWNrIGFzIGZhciBh cyB3aG8gbWlnaHQgcG9zc2libHkgYmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBnZXR0aW5nIG9uZSBvZiB0aGVz ZS4gDQrCoA0KRGFuIEhlbHNwZXINClBvcGxhciBHcm92ZSwgSUwuDQoNCg0KDQpOZXcgTWFwUXVl c3QgTG9jYWwgc2hvd3Mgd2hhdCdzIGhhcHBlbmluZyBhdCB5b3VyIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uLiBEaTEw MDAwMDA3NXgxMjExMDMxNzEzeDEyMDA2Njk4MjIvYW9sP3JlZGlyPWh0dHA6Ly9sb2NhbC5tYXBx dWVzdC5jb20vP25jaWQ9ZW1sY250bmV3MDAwMDAwMDIiPlRyeSBpdCBvdXQhIA0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 16, 2008
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Well since I was an early responder this morning, I am going to check my mail just as soon as I get home and see if mine has arrived. I am certain it must be there by now! And I know Dan would not let me down, he hasn't yet, no reason to think he would now. John In a message dated 10/16/2008 4:42:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com writes: Count me in too. Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: bob(at)cozyworld.net Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 15:20:58 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Count me in! Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew000000 02">Try it out! PGh0bWw+PEhFQUQ+PC9IRUFEPjxCT0RZID5Db3VudCBtZSBpbiB0b28uPGJyLz48YnIvPkplcmVt eSBpbiBEYWxsYXM8cD5TZW50IHZpYSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5IGZyb20gVC1Nb2JpbGU8L3A+PHA+PGhy IHNpemU9MiB3aWR0aD0xMDAlIGFsaWduPWNlbnRlciB0YWJpbmRleD0tMT48Yj5Gcm9tPC9iPjog IGJvYkBjb3p5d29ybGQubmV0PGJyPjxiPkRhdGU8L2I+OiBUaHUsIDE2IE9jdCAyMDA4IDE1OjIw OjU4IC0wNDAwPGJyPjxiPlRvPC9iPjogJmx0O3BpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20m Z3Q7PGJyPjxiPlN1YmplY3Q8L2I+OiBSRTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFByb3AgY2FydmluZyBI b3ctVG8gQ0QgY29taW5nIHNvb248YnI+PC9mb250PjwvcD48UD5Db3VudCBtZSBpbiE8L1A+PFA+ Jm5ic3A7PC9QPjxQPkJvYiBIYXNzZWw8L1A+PFA+U2FudGEgRmUsIE5NPEJSPjxCUj48L1A+PFRB QkxFIHdpZHRoPSIxMDAlIj48VEJPRFk+PFRSPjxURCB3aWR0aD01IGJnQ29sb3I9Ymx1ZT4mbmJz cDs8L1REPjxURD48U1BBTj48U1BBTj48L1NQQU4+PFNQQU4+PC9TUEFOPjwvU1BBTj48Rk9OVCBp ZD1yb2xlX2RvY3VtZW50IGZhY2U9QXJpYWwgY29sb3I9IzAwMDAwMCBzaXplPTI+PERJVj5IZWxs byBhbGwsPC9ESVY+PERJVj4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj48RElWPkkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGNvbnRhY3RlZCBi eSBzZXZlcmFsIG9mIHRoZSBzdWJzY3JpYmVycyB0byB0aGlzIGxpc3QgYWJvdXQgbWFraW5nIGF2 YWlsYWJsZSBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGNvbmNlcm5pbmcgdGhlICJKZXJyeSBUaG9ybmhpbGwt QWxsIFBvd2VyIFRvb2wiJm5ic3A7bWV0aG9kIG9mJm5ic3A7IHByb3AgY2FydmluZy4gSSBhbSBp biB0aGUgcHJvY2VzcyBvZiBjb21wb3NpbmcgYSB2ZXJ5IGRldGFpbGVkIGVzc2F5IGRlc2NyaWJp bmcgdGhpcyBlbnRpcmUgcHJvY2VkdXJlLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgbWFueSBwaG90b3MuICZuYnNwO015 IHBsYW4gaXMgdG8gYXQgc29tZSBwb2ludCBtYWtlIHRoaXMgYXZhaWxhYmxlIHRvIGFueW9uZSB3 aG8gd2FudHMgaXQsIGF0IHNvbWUgbm9taW5hbCBmZWUgKHRvIGJlIGRldGVybWluZWQgbGF0ZXIp LiBJIGFtIHRoaW5raW5nIG9mIHB1dHRpbmcgYWxsIG9mIHRoaXMgY29tcGxldGUgaW5mb3JtYXRp b24gb24gYSBDRC4gUmlnaHQgbm93IEkgYW0gYXNraW5nIGZvciBmZWVkYmFjayBhcyBmYXIgYXMg d2hvIG1pZ2h0IHBvc3NpYmx5IGJlIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgaW4gZ2V0dGluZyBvbmUgb2YgdGhlc2Uu IDxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+PERJVj48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPUFyaWFsIHNpemU9Mj5EYW4gSGVsc3Bl cjxCUj5Qb3BsYXIgR3JvdmUsIElMLjwvRk9OVD48L0RJVj48L0RJVj48L0ZPTlQ+PEJSPjxCUj48 QlI+PERJViBjbGFzcz1hb2xfYWRfZm9vdGVyIGlkPTdkODljMDQyMmQ1ZWFkMDY3NWJjYzQ1YTI2 MzM0MTY0PjxGT05UIHN0eWxlPSJGT05UOiAxMHB0IEFSSUFMLCBTQU4tU0VSSUY7IENPTE9SOiBi bGFjayI+PEhSIHN0eWxlPSJNQVJHSU4tVE9QOiAxMHB4Ij4gTmV3IDxCPk1hcFF1ZXN0IExvY2Fs PC9CPiBzaG93cyB3aGF0J3MgaGFwcGVuaW5nIGF0IHlvdXIgZGVzdGluYXRpb24uIERpMTAwMDAw MDc1eDEyMTEwMzE3MTN4MTIwMDY2OTgyMi9hb2w/cmVkaXI9aHR0cDovL2xvY2FsLm1hcHF1ZXN0 LmNvbS8/bmNpZD1lbWxjbnRuZXcwMDAwMDAwMiImZ3Q7VHJ5IGl0IG91dCEgPC9GT05UPjwvRElW PjxQUkU+PEI+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT0iY291cmllciBuZXcsY291cmllciIgY29sb3I9IzAwMDAwMCBz aXplPTI+ICA8L0ZPTlQ+PC9CPjwvUFJFPjwvVEQ+PC9UUj48L1RCT0RZPjwvVEFCTEU+IDxwcmU+ PGI+PGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0zRDIgY29sb3I9IiMwMDAwMDAiIGZhY2U9M0QiY291cmllciBuZXcsY291 cmllciI+ICBfLT0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0z RD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0z RD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0z RD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRD0zRCBfLT0zRCAgICAgICAgICAtIFRoZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBF bWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtIF8tPTNEIFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdh dG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZSBfLT0zRCB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3Qg VW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLCBfLT0zRCBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBC cm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwgXy09M0QgUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOiBf LT0zRCAgIC0tPiA8YSBocmVmPTNEImh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/ UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QiPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UGlldGVu cG9sLUxpc3Q8L2E+IF8tPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEIF8tPTNEICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1Mg V0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtIF8tPTNEIFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEg dGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhIF8tPTNEICAgLS0+IDxhIGhyZWY9M0QiaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRy b25pY3MuY29tIj5odHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb208L2E+IF8tPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEIF8t PTNEICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLSBfLT0zRCAgVGhh bmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhIF8tPTNEICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLiBfLT0zRCAgIC0tPiA8YSBocmVm PTNEImh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24iPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0 cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb248L2E+IF8tPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEIDwvYj48L2ZvbnQ+PC9wcmU+ PC9ib2R5PjwvaHRtbD4g (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Oct 16, 2008
I'd sure like one! You should be very proud of your work!!! I'd really want to pay for you trouble. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9084#209084 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 17, 2008
I am interested also, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: bob(at)cozyworld.net To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Count me in! Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Oct 17, 2008
Me too! Dan Wilson - Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9228#209228 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 17, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Hey wait now.... - Dan...I thought in your profession you guys battle axe things apart!? - I am confused......tee-heee-hee - Village idiot - --- On Fri, 10/17/08, dwilson wrote: From: dwilson <marwilson(at)charter.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 4:34 PM Me too! Dan Wilson - Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9228#209228 //mail.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 17, 2008
Please add me to the list Chet Hartley Holts Summit, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/17/08
Date: Oct 18, 2008
Re Prop carving CD Please add me to your list Thanks Graham Hewitt Perth West Australia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pietenpol-List Digest Server Sent: Saturday, 18 October 2008 3:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/17/08 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Cha pter 08-10-17&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chap ter 08-10-17&Archive=Pietenpol =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/17/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:45 AM - Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon (Gardiner Mason) 2. 02:34 PM - Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon (dwilson) 3. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon (KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP) 4. 04:10 PM - Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon (Chet's Mail) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon I am interested also, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: bob(at)cozyworld.net To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Count me in! Bob Hassel Santa Fe, NM Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! 3D============== 3D============== 3D============== 3D 3D============== 3D============== 3D============== 3D 3D============== 3D============== 3D============== 3D 3D============== 3D============== 3D============== 3D ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net> Me too! Dan Wilson - Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9228#209228 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hey wait now.... - Dan...I thought in your profession you guys battle axe things apart!? - I am confused......tee-heee-hee - Village idiot - --- On Fri, 10/17/08, dwilson wrote: From: dwilson <marwilson(at)charter.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Me too! Dan Wilson - Austin, MN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9228#209228 //mail.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Please add me to the list Chet Hartley Holts Summit, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 18, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Corvair engine question
Members: - I am ready to clean my Corvair engine and seek any ideas of chemical soluti ons or procedures used in cleaning parts of my engine. Any chemicals I shou ld avoid, etc.... - Ken H //mail.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2008
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Corvair Engine Question
Do you have the WW Corvair Conversion Manual? Seems to me there is a bit about cleaning in there, with some specific dos and don'ts. I don't remember details off hand, but if you don't have it I could dig it out and check. Tim in Bovey __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: re: Corvair Engine Question
From: glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com
Date: Oct 19, 2008
I think it was an even mix of kerosene and MEK. Watch out. MEK is hazardous. Any blasting should be done with walnut shells. No sand. That's how I remember it. ------Original Message------ From: Tim Verthein Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Oct 19, 2008 7:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: Corvair Engine Question Do you have the WW Corvair Conversion Manual? Seems to me there is a bit about cleaning in there, with some specific dos and don'ts. I don't remember details off hand, but if you don't have it I could dig it out and check. Tim in Bovey __________________________________________________ Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: re: Corvair Engine Question
Took my aluminum parts to a transmission shop for cleaning. Most all automatics are aluminum and they have tanks and a dishwasher kind of thing for cleaning. Rick On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 6:57 AM, wrote: > > I think it was an even mix of kerosene and MEK. Watch out. MEK is > hazardous. Any blasting should be done with walnut shells. No sand. > That's how I remember it. > ------Original Message------ > From: Tim Verthein > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Oct 19, 2008 7:48 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: Corvair Engine Question > > minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> > > Do you have the WW Corvair Conversion Manual? Seems to me there is a bit > about cleaning in there, with some specific dos and don'ts. I don't remember > details off hand, but if you don't have it I could dig it out and check. > > Tim in Bovey > > __________________________________________________ > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair engine question
Date: Oct 19, 2008
Ken=3B here are some posts from the Corvaircraft archives about cleaning th e engine: Castrol makes a product called SUPER CLEAN. It is sold almost eve rywhere inthe automotive departments. Wal Mart carries it in one gallon con tainers.Look for the purple bottle. It is concentrated and goes a long way. It worksand works well=2C That is all I used on my engine and it removed e verythingwithout harm to the aluminum. It is also excellent for all types o f cleaningneeds around your home. The best part is that it is only about $6 pergallon.> For what it's worth=2C I got good results scrubbing the case w ith a 1:1 > mix of kerosene and MEK in a plastic tote big enough to hold on e case > half. I used a stiff=2C nonmetallic brush & all the oily gunk & > "varnishy'" stuff just kind of melted off - left a very nice=2C shiny > cas e.> > Kip Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsit e at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2008
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: Corvair Engine Question
Tim, - I do have the his conversion manual.....just remember someone on the list t elling about their experiences trying different methods of cleaning and sol utions used. - Ken - --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Tim Verthein wrote: From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: Corvair Engine Question Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 6:48 AM Do you have the WW Corvair Conversion Manual? Seems to me there is a bit a bout cleaning in there, with some specific dos and don'ts. I don't remember details off hand, but if you don't have it I could dig it out and check. Tim in Bovey __________________________________________________ //mail.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2008
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: re: Corvair Engine Question
Ken, Some have had good results from taking the case halves to a transmission shop (or a mechanic who does trans work) that has a transmission "washing machine". We found a place near my hometown that did it for free. It was a tall machine with a door that opened from the front. They set the halves in a "rotisserie", which turns while the machine sprays a mixture of hot water and cleaning chemical from nozzles around the outside, top, and bottom. The case halves that we took in were about 98% clean already, but I wanted to see if it would help remove some of the stubborn grime in the cracks and crevices. Unfortunately it didn't really get them any cleaner. It is supposed to work well for an intial cleaning though. We cleaned ours primarily by hand. I used the Super Clean stuff at first, although I don't believe it is a Castrol product any longer (at least not the "Super Clean" I found at Ace Hardware). It works, but you still have to do plenty of brushing and scrubbing. You will want to wear rubber/latex gloves as well. I believe it states on the bottle that it may react with aluminum if you let it sit on the metal for an extended period of time. After that I tried parts cleaner from the auto parts store (Advance Auto, I think). Comes in 5 gallon metal cans. I think it may be a mineral spirits based solvent. It smells pretty foul, and is definitely not good for your skin. It works ok, but not any better than the Super Clean did. It's been relegated to small parts cleaning duty (I have my rocker arms soaking in it, for example). For the last case I cleaned, I used laundry detergent (Joser, from the list, stated that he had good results with it). I think it worked just as well as the Super Clean, and it is obviously more gentle on your skin. When cleaning with detergent, try soaking the case in HOT water with plenty of laundry detergent. I used a Rubbermaid tub that was large enough to submerge one case half. I think I let it sit in there for at least 30 minutes, probably more. Then I attacked it with brushes. It's not difficult, it just takes time. A few cans of carb cleaner and small brushes can help finish off the hard to reach/stubborn areas. For a low toxicity case cleaning solution in the home/garage environment, it gets my vote for now. Remember your safety goggles! Hope that helps, Ryan On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 1:10 PM, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP < kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com> wrote: > Tim, > > I do have the his conversion manual.....just remember someone on the list > telling about their experiences trying different methods of cleaning and > solutions used. > > Ken > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2008
From: "G. Robert Stetson" <gr.stetson(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine question
I have never rebuild a Corvair engine but I have done a number of VW air-cooleds. What worked best for me was to clean the heavy stuff off with Gunk, per the directions on the can. Then I sent the wife shopping and, while she was gone, loaded the parts into the dishwasher. My idea was that, if the dishwasher could clean a greasy cooking pan, it could clean a case half. Worked well and the parts came out ready to paint, or whatever. GRS "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" wrote: > > Members: I am ready to clean my Corvair engine and seek any ideas of chemical solutions or procedures used in cleaning parts of my engine. Any chemicals I should avoid, etc.... Ken H > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Corvair engine question
Date: Oct 19, 2008
Ja, ja, ja, hah. I guess good ole cleaning solvent is out of the question now days, no one has mentioned it. RS Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net <http://www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G. Robert Stetson Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine question I have never rebuild a Corvair engine but I have done a number of VW air-cooleds. What worked best for me was to clean the heavy stuff off with Gunk, per the directions on the can. Then I sent the wife shopping and, while she was gone, loaded the parts into the dishwasher. My idea was that, if the dishwasher could clean a greasy cooking pan, it could clean a case half. Worked well and the parts came out ready to paint, or whatever. GRS "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" wrote: Members: I am ready to clean my Corvair engine and seek any ideas of chemical solutions or procedures used in cleaning parts of my engine. Any chemicals I should avoid, etc.... Ken H ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 19, 2008
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine question
You are a much braver man than I. Then I sent the wife shopping and, while she was gone, loaded the parts > into the dishwasher. My idea was that, if the dishwasher could clean a > greasy cooking pan, it could clean a case half. Worked well and the parts > came out ready to paint, or whatever. > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: just plane flyin'
Date: Oct 19, 2008
No engine cleaning to talk about, no nothing but flyin'. I think that's about the only thing that will keep you building, is the hope that one day you will prop your engine, hop in, and go fly like I did yesterday and today. And the best flights aren't necessarily the long and complex ones, either. Yesterday I logged all of 0.7 and today was even less, 0.3 hr. Yesterday I flew up to Boerne Stage Airfield to go up with my brother in his trike. The Piet got all the looks, though. Weather was severe clear and very nice, and the flight was classic low and slow. Coming back I climbed to 3000 msl and did power-on stalls during the climb (uneventful), then when I got to cruise altitude I did some power-off stalls (actually just nose bobs and mushes down to about 37-38 MPH indicated). Today all I did was go up and shoot three landings "just because". First one was full stall, the next two were wheelies since we had a slight x-wind, this time from the west (a bit unusual for us). Perfect weather for Pietenpoling and that 0.3 hours in the airplane will go a long, long way towards my maintaining mental well-being. Now for some mushy stuff. As I drive to or from my hangar, I always look down each row of hangars to see who's doing what. I passed by Steve Dortch's hangar (he's on this list) and what do I see but kids out playing on the apron and Steve hugging his wife. Awwww- ;o) (At least I assume that was his wife??!!) Good on ya, mate! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Oct 19, 2008
Subject: Re: just plane flyin'
Of course It was my wife. I keep telling my wife that our airplane is cheaper than a Mistress. She usually says "not by much. " BTW we were not just hugging, We were trying to figure out the dance steps to what we knew as an old Ranch Fiddle Tune "Put your Little Foot." (It is also called Varsuvania or the Irish call it "shoe the Donkey) We used to dance it quite a bit but have not for several years. I am nearing the end of an Annual on a Complex aircraft. This is one of the times I long for a Piet. On a Vtail Beech you have to put it up on jacks and swing the gear. There is also a Big AD we are complying with. My IA is letting me turn most of the wrenches and charging me less. But it still ain't cheap. When we were not dancing, I was installing a new ELT. I Bought the AK 450 from Skygeek for about $175. It is 121.5 and 243 freqs (not the new 406.) It is pretty straight forward to install. On my 1948 plane I am mounting it to the tray that held the three flares for night landings (yes remotely fired parachute flares) I am going to use the remote switch wire that was supplied but It sure is temping to get some wire from Radio Shack. They sent about 15 foot of wire (like telephone wire but 4 pins) and I need about 6. I guess I will just fold it and zip tie it up front. The big advantage it has over the cheaper AK (about $140) is that it allows me to use a mike and portable antenna to transmit (but not recieve) to rescuers. The directions mention putting in a plate to ground the thing on wood or cloth planes. Also it uses Standard D cell batteries. Sorry about all the non piet jabber. I simply lurk the list and may start/buy a peit if I have my way. (then my flying will be more expensive than a mistress.) Blue Skies Steve D 1948 Bonanza San Antonio, GRT ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008 20:57 Subject: Pietenpol-List: just plane flyin' > > > No engine cleaning to talk about, no nothing but flyin'. I think that's about the only thing that will keep you building, is the hope that > one day you will prop your engine, hop in, and go fly like I did > yesterday and today. And the best flights aren't necessarily the > long and complex ones, either. Yesterday I logged all of 0.7 and > today was even less, 0.3 hr. > > Yesterday I flew up to Boerne Stage Airfield to go up with my > brother in his trike. The Piet got all the looks, though. > Weather was severe clear and very nice, and the flight was classic > low and slow. Coming back I climbed to 3000 msl and did power-on > stalls during the climb (uneventful), then when I got to cruise > altitude I did some power-off stalls (actually just nose bobs and > mushes down to about 37-38 MPH indicated). Today all I did was go > up and shoot three landings "just because". First one was full > stall, the next two were wheelies since we had a slight x-wind, > this time from the west (a bit unusual for us). Perfect weather > for Pietenpoling and that 0.3 hours in the airplane will go a > long, long way towards my maintaining mental well-being. > > Now for some mushy stuff. As I drive to or from my hangar, I > always look down each row of hangars to see who's doing what. I > passed by Steve Dortch's hangar (he's on this list) and what do I > see but kids out playing on the apron and Steve hugging his wife. > Awwww- ;o) (At least I assume that was his wife??!!) Good on ya, > mate! > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Weekend
Hello all, My Saturday consisted of showing my Pietenpol project to lots of kids and families. I was asked to bring my project out to our Tulare County Kid's Fest. I set up my fuselage and almost competed wing panel along with a sheet of the plans and picture of what it could look like when complete. I was able to show kids and parents about the plane and about airplanes in general. It was fun and hopefully some of them learned something and sparked an interest in aviation. Then Sunday I spent a little time flying a Cherokee 140 (2.6 hours) and even grabbed my dad and took him for a ride. Well I just thought i'd throw that out since it IS Piet related. Mike Groah Tulare CA (Fuse and tail done other than main gear and a hundred other things, One wing panel almost done, center section almost done, and tons of other things to do. This Christmas will mark a year working on the project. I will finish it one of these days.) __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weekend
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 20, 2008
TWlrZQ0KDQpXaGVyZSBpcyBUdWxhcmUgQ2E/IEhvdyBmYXIgaXMgaXQgZnJvbSBMQT8NCg0KSm9o bg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IFZlcml6b24gV2lyZWxlc3MgQmxhY2tCZXJyeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdp bmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTWljaGFlbCBHcm9haCA8ZHNrb2dyb3ZlckB5YWhvby5j b20+DQoNCkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMjAgT2N0IDIwMDggMDk6MTU6NDUgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1s aXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogV2Vla2VuZA0KDQoN Cg0KSGVsbG8gYWxsLCANCg0KTXkgU2F0dXJkYXkgY29uc2lzdGVkIG9mIHNob3dpbmcgbXkgUGll dGVucG9sIHByb2plY3QgdG8gbG90cyBvZiBraWRzIGFuZCBmYW1pbGllcy4gIEkgd2FzIGFza2Vk IHRvIGJyaW5nIG15IHByb2plY3Qgb3V0IHRvIG91ciBUdWxhcmUgQ291bnR5IEtpZCdzIEZlc3Qu ICBJIHNldCB1cCBteSBmdXNlbGFnZSBhbmQgYWxtb3N0IGNvbXBldGVkIHdpbmcgcGFuZWwgYWxv bmcgd2l0aCBhIHNoZWV0IG9mIHRoZSBwbGFucyBhbmQgcGljdHVyZSBvZiB3aGF0IGl0IGNvdWxk IGxvb2sgbGlrZSB3aGVuIGNvbXBsZXRlLiAgSSB3YXMgYWJsZSB0byBzaG93IGtpZHMgYW5kIHBh cmVudHMgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHBsYW5lIGFuZCBhYm91dCBhaXJwbGFuZXMgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbC4gIEl0 IHdhcyBmdW4gYW5kIGhvcGVmdWxseSBzb21lIG9mIHRoZW0gbGVhcm5lZCBzb21ldGhpbmcgYW5k IHNwYXJrZWQgYW4gaW50ZXJlc3QgaW4gYXZpYXRpb24uICANCg0KVGhlbiBTdW5kYXkgSSBzcGVu dCBhIGxpdHRsZSB0aW1lIGZseWluZyBhIENoZXJva2VlIDE0MCAoMi42IGhvdXJzKSBhbmQgZXZl biBncmFiYmVkIG15IGRhZCBhbmQgdG9vayBoaW0gZm9yIGEgcmlkZS4gIA0KDQpXZWxsIEkganVz dCB0aG91Z2h0IGknZCB0aHJvdyB0aGF0IG91dCBzaW5jZSBpdCBJUyBQaWV0IHJlbGF0ZWQuICAN Cg0KTWlrZSBHcm9haCANClR1bGFyZSBDQQ0KKEZ1c2UgYW5kIHRhaWwgZG9uZSBvdGhlciB0aGFu IG1haW4gZ2VhciBhbmQgYSBodW5kcmVkIG90aGVyIHRoaW5ncywgT25lIHdpbmcgcGFuZWwgYWxt b3N0IGRvbmUsIGNlbnRlciBzZWN0aW9uIGFsbW9zdCBkb25lLCBhbmQgdG9ucyBvZiBvdGhlciB0 aGluZ3MgdG8gZG8uICAgVGhpcyBDaHJpc3RtYXMgd2lsbCBtYXJrIGEgeWVhciB3b3JraW5nIG9u IHRoZSBwcm9qZWN0LiAgSSB3aWxsIGZpbmlzaCBpdCBvbmUgb2YgdGhlc2UgZGF5cy4pDQoNCiBf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol Bomber
Hello guys, we had a blast this past saturday with a little airport hanger party/fly-in.- We were going to have a spot landing competition, and bomb drop, but just did the bombdrop.- It was windy and a little bit cold but we still had fun.- A friend of mine I work with came by in time for his 1st ride in the piet, little did he know he was getting drafted into the Pi etenpol Airforce.- He was my bombbardier.- Water balloons were the orde nance, and a blue barrel the target.- That is the 1st time I have tried t hat, we did one low torpedo type run, and a 900ft- high, B-29 style appro ach.- Of course the B-29's bombsight was waaaaay off.- Earl, with his b lue Stinson 108 actually hit the barrel, with his girlfriend as his bombadi er, and the Eckles boys in the cub got close with the "stuka" dive bomb apr oach.- Next year I will try to plan a little better and get a few more in vites out so we can have team bombdrop, Piets vs ????- (I bet RV's would have a heck of a time throwing stuff out.)- - - Safe building and water bombing, Shad=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You Yahoo p://mail.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Weekend
I'm about a 2-1/2 to 3 hour drive from LA. It's about 50 miles south of Fresno on the 99. (KTLR is our local airport.) We're the home to the World Ag Expo which is the worlds largest agriculture gathering. During Feb each year thousands of people fill up our little farming town and the surrounding area to attend the ag expo. Other than that we're a small agriculture and dairy community. amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote: Mike Where is Tulare Ca? How far is it from LA? JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry --------------------------------- From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Pietenpol-List: Weekend Hello all, My Saturday consisted of showing my Pietenpol project to lots of kids and families. I was asked to bring my project out to our Tulare County Kid's Fest. I set up my fuselage and almost competed wing panel along with a sheet of the plans and picture of what it could look like when complete. I was able to show kids and parents about the plane and about airplanes in general. It was fun and hopefully some of them learned something and sparked an interest in aviation. Then Sunday I spent a little time flying a Cherokee 140 (2.6 hours) and even grabbed my dad and took him for a ride. Well I just thought i'd throw that out since it IS Piet related. Mike Groah Tulare CA (Fuse and tail done other than main gear and a hundred other things, One wing panel almost done, center section almost done, and tons of other things to do. This Christmas will mark a year working on the ~,g(M4Gqz.'8^>'zzhIQhR' Eyn jj+ ^.+- Tn+bpbj!'60j@C,jwfffj|m &j',r5hRm &j',r5hR __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: aileron pulley supports
Date: Oct 20, 2008
Some time ago I recall seeing a post that the two bolts that hold on the aileron pulley supports in the wing, will not fit as drawn on the plans. These are the two bolts that are underneath the pulley and between the pulley support arms. The poster said the bolt is too long to fit between the support arms and then through the drilled 3/16 inch hole. Looking at the plans and my cut out supports that sure looks to be the case. The poster wound up just drilling the attachment holes to the inside of the two pulleys on the support. Is this what everyone else has done? What about just reversing the bolt and putting the nut under the pulley and the head on the inside of the spar? As long as there is adequate clearance between the nut and the aileron cable, would it make any difference? Richard Schreiber lmforge(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: aileron pulley supports
Date: Oct 20, 2008
I did mine as per the plans and they worked out fine. I did have to chamfer the holes in the bracket slightly so that the bolts would slide through on the angle, but that did not seem to weaken the bracket. The trick is that the holes need to be drilled in the spar and the bracket slid into place with the bolts already in place in the bracket, a bit tricky but mine worked out fine and it's very secure. Ed G. >From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: "pietenpol-list" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron pulley supports >Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:26:28 -0500 > >Some time ago I recall seeing a post that the two bolts that hold on the >aileron pulley supports in the wing, will not fit as drawn on the plans. >These are the two bolts that are underneath the pulley and between the >pulley support arms. The poster said the bolt is too long to fit between >the support arms and then through the drilled 3/16 inch hole. Looking at >the plans and my cut out supports that sure looks to be the case. The >poster wound up just drilling the attachment holes to the inside of the >two pulleys on the support. Is this what everyone else has done? What about >just reversing the bolt and putting the nut under the pulley and the head >on the inside of the spar? As long as there is adequate clearance between >the nut and the aileron cable, would it make any difference? > > >Richard Schreiber >lmforge(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: aileron pulley supports
I agree ... I did the same and the plans design works fine. I did mine as per the plans and they worked out fine. I did have to chamfer the holes in the bracket slightly so that the bolts would slide through on the angle, but that did not seem to weaken the bracket. The trick is that the holes need to be drilled in the spar and the bracket slid into place with the bolts already in place in the bracket, a bit tricky but mine worked out fine and it's very secure. Ed G. >From: "Richard Schreiber" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: "pietenpol-list" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron pulley supports >Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:26:28 -0500 > >Some time ago I recall seeing a post that the two bolts that hold on the >aileron pulley supports in the wing, will not fit as drawn on the plans. >These are the two bolts that are underneath the pulley and between the >pulley support arms. The poster said the bolt is too long to fit between >the support arms and then through the drilled 3/16 inch hole. Looking at >the plans and my cut out supports that sure looks to be the case. The >poster wound up just drilling the attachment holes to the inside of the >two pulleys on the support. Is this what everyone else has done? What about >just reversing the bolt and putting the nut under the pulley and the head >on the inside of the spar? As long as there is adequate clearance between >the nut and the aileron cable, would it make any difference? > > >Richard Schreiber >lmforge(at)earthlink.net __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 20, 2008
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking for Corvair Flight Engine for Display in So. Cal
Hey gang- Kind of weird post here, but oddly enough besides being Piet follower, I'm also a Zenith guy AND a Corvair driver (auto). One thing these three machines have in common is the use of the Corvair engine. There's a big Corvair event coming up end of the month in So Cal, and they're hoping to find someone with a Corvair flight engine for a display, or even one mounted to a fuse, etc. the following is from a friend in the Corvair car group, that he posted to the Zenith group, that I'm passing along here, too. they don't care if you're a Zenith guy, or whatever, if you have a Corvair flight engine you would display. Here's his post: " I have made several requests to several places including Flycorvair.com with no responses so I thought I'd make the request here. "I am a member of Vintage Corsa, the Orange County, California chapter of CORSA, Corvair Society of America (cars & trucks). Our chapter is hosting the Great Western Fan Belt Toss this year. It is one of the largest Corvair (car & truck) events on the west coast each year. The 'Toss will be held at the Orange County Fair Grounds on October 31st, November 1st and 2nd. It has been moved from Palm Springs to Orange County this year to try to give the Corvair more exposure to the general public. The 'Toss will share the fairgrounds that weekend with a national woodworking convention and the Orange County Market Place. The OC Market place boasts that they are the largest swap meet in Southern California. Thousands of people are expected to attend the fairgrounds that weekend. See our website for more information about the 'Toss. Vintagecorsa.com The reason that I have posted here is that we were wondering if someone wanted to represent the flight segment of the Corvair movement. Is there someone with a flight Corvair engine that might want to bring it to the show? (Could I dream of a fuselage with mounted engine?) If we can get someone, I'll see to it the display space is free. If you can think of a local So Cal guy that might be interested in displaying, please forward this email. It sure would be cool if we had a flight engine at the show! If someone wanted to travel to the show, I have a spare bedroom. Anyone should contact me directly. Thanks, Dave Thompson Westminster, CA Dave.thompson(at)verizon.net 714-334-3833" It didn't look like that copies and pasted as nice as I'd liked, hopefully it worked OK. I've found the Corvair car guys to be as nice a group as can be, and I'm sure it would be a blast for someone in the area. Tim in Bovey __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Oct 20, 2008
I will buy a copy Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 9607#209607 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol Bomber
Date: Oct 21, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Ahhh, reminds me of the days of my youth... Back when I was 18, my Dad bought a J-3. My brother and I were going to enter it in a flour-sack bombing contest at an airshow in Memphis, so we asked a local farmer who had an airstrip if we could practice bombing at his place. He said he'd rather we'd use lime than flour so it would do his fields some good and let us go. We started practicing with various altitudes and weren't being very successful. I decided to try the dive-bomb approach. I took the Cub up to 1,000', chopped the throttle to idle and stood it on its nose, watching the airspeed to keep it out of the redline (125 mph on a Cub). I tossed the bomb out at about 100' and pulled back on the stick. You know, it takes just about 100' to pull a Cub out of a terminal velocity dive. I pointed the nose to the sky and gave it full throttle and it kept going down! It finally began to climb as the tailwheel kissed the grass. I decided right then and there that dive bombing is not my preferred technique. As he was watching this from the saftey of the ground, my brother kept wondering "how am I going to get home if he crashes the airplane?" The farmer watched us practice day after day and finally said "Boys, I've got 40 acres in watermelons. There are always a few that the crows have pecked holes in that I can't sell. I sure would enjoy watching you drop them." We took the stick out of the back, and my brother flew the Cub from the front seat while I sat in the back with a watermelon under each arm and 3 of them on the floorbards. I made an adjustable bombsight that proved to be pretty accurate, as long as the altitude was constant and the wind wasn't blowing too hard. I would lean out the door and shout instructions to him, as he maintained a constant altitude. I'd shout "Left a bit. Steady. Steady. A little bit to the right - Bomb's Away! We got where we could consistently hit a target the size of a car from 500'. Let me tell you, when you drop a watermelon 500' it digs a crater about 6' in daimeter and a foot deep and just fills it with mud. It throws a shower of mud and dirt about 30' in the air. Spectacular! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Bomber Hello guys, we had a blast this past saturday with a little airport hanger party/fly-in. We were going to have a spot landing competition, and bomb drop, but just did the bombdrop. It was windy and a little bit cold but we still had fun. A friend of mine I work with came by in time for his 1st ride in the piet, little did he know he was getting drafted into the Pietenpol Airforce. He was my bombbardier. Water balloons were the ordenance, and a blue barrel the target. That is the 1st time I have tried that, we did one low torpedo type run, and a 900ft high, B-29 style approach. Of course the B-29's bombsight was waaaaay off. Earl, with his blue Stinson 108 actually hit the barrel, with his girlfriend as his bombadier, and the Eckles boys in the cub got close with the "stuka" dive bomb aproach. Next year I will try to plan a little better and get a few more invites out so we can have team bombdrop, Piets vs ???? (I bet RV's would have a heck of a time throwing stuff out.) Safe building and water bombing, _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: VERY handy gadget on woot.com
Date: Oct 21, 2008
one day only.... handy for setting up wings, etc. http://www.woot.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon
Date: Oct 21, 2008
Me too Barry Davis Big Piets in Ga ----- Original Message ----- From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 10:22 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Prop carving How-To CD coming soon Hello all, I have been contacted by several of the subscribers to this list about making available more information concerning the "Jerry Thornhill-All Power Tool" method of prop carving. I am in the process of composing a very detailed essay describing this entire procedure, including many photos. My plan is to at some point make this available to anyone who wants it, at some nominal fee (to be determined later). I am thinking of putting all of this complete information on a CD. Right now I am asking for feedback as far as who might possibly be interested in getting one of these. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Di100000075x1211031713x1200669822/aol?redir=http://local.mapquest.com/? ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it out! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 21, 2008
Subject: Re: VERY handy gadget on woot.com
got mine! In a message dated 10/21/2008 4:04:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes: one day only.... handy for setting up wings, etc. _http://www.woot.com/_ (http://www.woot.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: aileron pulley supports
Date: Oct 21, 2008
Thanks guys, I'll chamfer the holes enough to get the bolts in. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Groah Sent: 10/20/2008 6:18:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: aileron pulley supports I agree ... I did the same and the plans design works fine. "Ed G." wrote: I did mine as per the plans and they worked out fine. I did have to chamfer the holes in the bracket slightly so that the bolts would slide through on the angle, but that did not seem to weaken the bracket. The trick is that the holes need to be drilled in the spar and the bracket slid into place with the bolts already in place in the bracket, a bit tricky but mine worked out fine and it's very secure. Ed G. >From: "Richard Schreiber" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >To: "pietenpol-list" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron pulley supports >Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:26:28 -0500 > >Some time ago I recall seeing a post that the two bolts that hold on the >aileron pulley supports in the wing, will not fit as drawn on the plans. >These are the two bolts that are underneath the pulley and between the >pulley support arms. The poster said the bolt is too long to fit between >the support arms and then through the drilled 3/16 inch hole. Looking at >the plans and my cut out supports that sure looks to be the case. The >poster wound up just drilling the attachment holes to the inside of the >two pulleys on the support. Is this what everyone else has done? What about >just reversing the bolt and putting the nut under the pulley and the head >on the inside of the spar? As long as there is adequate clearance between >the nut and the aileron cable, would it make any difference? > > >Richard ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham & Robin Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re Lift Struts
Date: Oct 22, 2008
Hi Builders I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a wall of .049 Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much smaller in section than the front And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use this with fittings bolted to the ends. Your views would be appreciated Regards Graham Hewitt ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re Lift Struts
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Graham, Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying with wooden struts as well. I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and the jury struts). Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & Robin Hewitt Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts Hi Builders I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a wall of .049 Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much smaller in section than the front And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use this with fittings bolted to the ends. Your views would be appreciated Regards Graham Hewitt _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair College #12
Date: Oct 22, 2008
>From William Wynne: We've posted an update on our Web site at http://FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html with all the information for Corvair College #12 to be held Nov. 7-9 just outside Columbia, S.C. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re Lift Struts
Please be careful if you're going to use old Cub struts. The original struts breathed, which allowed moisture into them, especially during temperature changes. This moisture would condense inside, run down, and accumulate at the bottom of the strut. The strut would rust from the inside-out, leaving little or no indication of a problem until it was structurally unsound. The AD requires the old struts to be punch tested at stations within a specified distance from the bottom and rolled with (hot) linseed oil. The rolling consequently requires their removal. The AD is satisfied permanently if the struts are replaced with sealed struts, available from Univair. The on-going cost and hassle of the AD has incented a lot of Cub people to just bite the bullet, replace their struts, and be done with it, which is what I did with mine maybe 6-8 years ago. This is why there is a glut of old Cub struts around. This is a well-known AD for the Cub, and sealed struts add value to a Cub when doing a pre-purchase inspection. The last time I saw mine they were in a junk pile next to the A&P's hangar with a number of others, but I haven't lived in the area for 6+ years, that A&P is gone, and the airport (X55) has changed hands since then. I always meant to grab them and take them home, but I'd be willing to wager they're gone now. Non-sealed Cub struts may certainly be used like Jack did. Cub fronts and backs are the same. I'll probably use some myself. But the lower end should probably be hacked off and a new lower fitting welded onto the slightly shorter strut, if a visual inspection of the internals of the strut comes up relatively clean. I might also be inclined to dry them out somehow, roll them once, then fill in the oil filler hole, effectively sealing them. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> >Sent: Oct 22, 2008 8:05 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > >Graham, > > > >Much of this is in the Archives, for these are common questions. > > > >Some planes have smaller rear lift struts than front lift struts. >However, most planes have a rear spar much smaller and further aft than >the Pietenpol's rear spar. In most planes the rear spar carries less >than half the load of the front spar. In the Pietenpol design, the two >spars are the same size and the rear spar is relatively far forward, >suggesting that it carries a substantial part of the wing load. > > > >As for alloy, I assume you are referring to aluminum alloy. These have >been used with success in the past (interplane struts on a Stearman are >aluminum) and several Piet builders are using SkyTek aluminum strut >material. Again, check the archives. Several Pietenpols are flying >with wooden struts as well. > > > >I used lift struts from a couple of J-3 Cubs (a recent AD made a LOT of >Cub struts available for very little money) because they were cheap and >readily available. Also, being steel, they were readily weldable to >incorporate the fittings to attach to the spars and the fuselage (and >the jury struts). > > > >Jack Phillips > >NX899JP > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham & >Robin Hewitt >Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 2:40 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Lift Struts > > > > > > > > > >Hi Builders > >I would appreciate some feed back on Lift struts for Pietenpols > > > >Some plans show all four struts to be 2.68 inches X 1.44 inches with a > >wall of .049 > > > >Am sure that many Cubs and similar types have the rear strut much > >smaller in section than the front > > > >And the front strut much less than 2 inches wide. > > > >Has any one considered Alloy , I believe that some Ballanca planes use > >this with fittings bolted to the ends. > > > >Your views would be appreciated > > > >Regards Graham Hewitt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________ > >or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > >Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re Lift Struts
Date: Oct 22, 2008
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Everything Jim said is true, except that the front and rear struts are the same on a Cub. The front struts are bigger, and have fairlead lugs for the aileron cables welded to the strut. Since Cub struts are a little over 10' long and a Pietenpol strus is typically about 8', you can safely cut off the bottom 2' where the rust is and then eiather seal or oil the struts. When I cut mine, there was


September 25, 2008 - October 22, 2008

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ha