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Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-hg
December 29, 2008 - January 23, 2009

have. Really the best thing to do would be to cut a small opening in the fabric, probably just the bottom of the elevator, remove the horn and replace with an exact copy. It's probably very possible to weld a "scab" onto each side of the horn. It could probably be done to the point of being just as structurally sound or even better than it was, and probably not noticeable. It would be really nice though to be able to open that fabric up, not just to remove the horn but to also inspect the wood to make sure there are no cracks. It really is something that could be accomplished in one looong day or an evening and the next day, if you have torches and the fabric and dope available. To do a fabric patch right there would not be bad and really could be done in the span of one day. What a bummer though! I really feel for you! But on the bright side, you'd be surprised how good you get at making repairs after stuff like this. Good Luck! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221706#221706 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
horns
Date: Dec 29, 2008
Jeff, This is not advice.just my opinion: If I were in your shoes, I would make a stiffener out of 12 or 14 ga 4130. It would be shaped like the horn, from top to bottom. I would be able to prime it and paint it, then slip it thru the fabric and bolt it, top and bottom, with about 3 bolts on each side. All this would be done if I felt assured that the wood was OK. The real bummer may be with your instructor. It must be hard enough to find someone to go up in your plane, now he's feeling extra guilty. Good luck & keep us posted with what YOU decide to do. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns Dear Pieters, Today my instructor and I managed to damage the Piet while still in its chocks; we bent the upper horn of the left elevator bell crank. I need your advice on repairs. How it happened: I was sitting in the cockpit. The tail was resting on a sawhorse. The instructor removed the sawhorse to lower the tail. The sawhorse wasn't placed far enough away and it caught the lower elevator cable. The tail was lowered all the way to ground without this being noticed. The upper horn bent over about 45 degrees towards the centerline (towards the rudder). We bent the horn back, and of course the horn now looks like an hourglass when viewed from fore or aft. Oddly, the lower cable has a little more slack than before; definitely more than the lower elevator cable on the other side. There does not appear to be any damage at all to the large, bell crank in the fuselage (behind the pilot's seat) at the other end of the cable. Note that the bell crank appears to be built to plans. The concerns: 1. Why is the cable slack even when the horn was bent back to vertical? I guess the cable could have stretched, but this is an eighth inch cable and I weigh 180. Doesn't seem like there would be that much tension. 2. Removing and replacing the bell crank will take a lot of effort and I want to go flying. Now. Could stiffeners be riveted to the horn instead? How much strength has been lost due to the bend-unbend cycle, and how much strength is needed here? 3. If it must be removed and replaced/rebuilt, what procedure would require the least number of steps to accomplish this, with minimal further damage? Thanks for any advice on this. I am seriously bummed as I planned to fly all this week! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns
Date: Dec 29, 2008
Jeff; I'll tell you what I did when I bent a rudder horn, but you won't like what I tell you: open it up, remove the horn, fix it, and put it back. Here's how I did my horn: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/rudder.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patches
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 2008
I think anything we use should be with permission,license or not at all. I am not an advocate of nor do I believe in stealing someones work. Although the image on the book I purchased from the pietenpol family and the drawings in my packet bare a striking resemblance to the image in Grants rendition, I wonder where he got it from? If he created the Pietenpol image he must be the creator of the aircraft. If not then he used Bernards image from the drawings, I wonder if he got permission or do we need to go to the owners of the prints even though Bernard has since passed away? The legal issues bring interesting questions for debate as to who owns the Pietenpoll image? John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:34:01 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches According to the folks I spoke with at the EAA, Grant did not get written permission to use images from the Flying and Glider Manuals in the Pietenpol video(s) he created. So maybe these patches could include images (there are some really good ones!) from those publications (NOT his publications)... Getting written permission is likely still a good idea, whether it's an image from the Flying and Glider manuals or something Grant or anyone else (regardless of author) has printed or reprinted....sure would be a shame to have to deal with issues such as copyright infringement when you could be making sawdust.... And I definitely agree, a LOT of hard work on Grant's part filled the newsletters I still enjoy reading! -----Original Message----- >From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net> >Sent: Dec 27, 2008 11:02 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches > > >Being a lawyer, I guess I have to respond. > >A copyright, in the US where this discussion is taking place, exists >automatically upon the creation of any work. As soon as an artist writes, >composes, sculpts, draws, paints or otherwise puts an idea into tangible >form, the tangible work belongs to the artist and it cannot be copied >without permission. Even though the tangible form is sold, the copyright is >retained by the originator. A copyright registration with the Library of >Congress primarily provides a way of notifying the world of the creation of >the copyrighted work. > >Some copyrightable works can also be registered as trademarks. A trademark >is protected by usage in commerce. The first user of a trademark has the >rights to it in a particular "market area." Registration of a trademark >with the US Patent and Trademark Office prevents others from using it >outside the market area. > >What a copyright does is prevent others from using a work in its whole or >substantial part without the permission of the owner. Modifying a work, >such as in musical parodies, is also prevented without permission. Claiming >the work as an original composition of one's own is never permitted. >Quoting a work, with proper attribution, is generally allowed under the >"fair use" doctrine. > >The works of Grant McLaren will remain copyrighted for a good number of >years after his death. The exact number will depending on the date of >creation and the specific "Copyright Protection Act" in force at the time. > >As I am also a human being in love with Pietenpol airplanes and their >history, I would never tell anyone who has contributed as much as Grant >McLaren to stick anything in his ear. > > >Mike Hardaway > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> >To: >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24 AM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches > > >> >> Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can >only be protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both >would to have existed before the work was released into the public domain >and should be appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would >doubt the intellectual artistic property is protected. >> >> The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach >and tell him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition. >> >> Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same >sentiment with the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his >ear. I am not one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with >great ambitions and arrogance. >> >> Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent >attitude by many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to. >> >> Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza. >> >> John >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Oscar Zuniga >> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >> To: Pietenpol List >> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches >> >> >> >> I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if >anyone >> is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to >be >> unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before >anyone >> goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval. >> >> I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here >on >> the list who might be able to get in touch with him. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Air Camper NX41CC >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 29, 2008
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: re:up too late tonight-Patches
Grega GN-1 Aircamper ;please.Calling us a Pietenpol Aircamper is like calli ng an F16 an F18.GN-1 Aircampers are more like X15's;able to reach the edge of space and all that stuff.Fly at incredible speeds-etc.-=0A=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Lawrence Williams =0ATo: Pietlist =0ASent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31:53 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: re :up too late tonight-Patches=0A=0A=0AWhat will be the criteria for who gets /wears a Pietenpol patch? =0A=0AOur newsletter editor and a number of liste rs seem to hold the view that there is no such thing as a Pietenpol Air Cam per. I think the P.C. designation currently in use is "Snowflake" which sho uld open up an entirely new logo for our patch.=0A=0AAnother interesting qu estion comes up when considering the annual "Pietenpol" reunion at Brodhead and, since there are no Pietenpol Air Campers, can there really be any leg itimate representative aircraft on the line at OSH?=0A=0AWhere's Chris Egsg aard when he's needed?=0A=0ALarry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Patches
Date: Dec 29, 2008
How about a NEW design contest? I'm sure there are multiple artists on this list. I'll kick in a one year subscription to CONTACT! Magazine as one of the prizes. Images can be uploaded into the photo section and a poll can be created. Pat > > I think anything we use should be with permission,license or not at all. I > am not an advocate of nor do I believe in stealing someones work. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Patches
Pat, Capital idea, I agree something new and selected as a contest, great idea as long as it comes with the appropriate release for use and publication. Having no artistic talent and no background in the practice of law I have little more to offer or contribute than commentary and support. This like many other things is completely out of my league, but highly encouraging for those with any artistic talent. I suppose there should be a theme that uses the Piet as its central idea and then the creative artistic juices of the artist to run wild with he concept. It all sounds like great fun with a spectacular patch as the end result. Pat sounds like a great idea and a nice prize too anyone want to add to the prize purse with goods and or services? John **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Patches
Date: Dec 29, 2008
Pat, Capital idea, I agree something new and selected as a contest, great idea as long as it comes with the appropriate release for use and publication. Having no artistic talent and no background in the practice of law I have little more to offer or contribute than commentary and support. This like many other things is completely out of my league, but highly encouraging for those with any artistic talent. I suppose there should be a theme that uses the Piet as its central idea and then the creative artistic juices of the artist to run wild with he concept. I would guess that a computer rendering of an all-composite Piet with a small turbine would be out of the question? Kinda like when the EAA changed its logo to a jet? Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 29, 2008
Subject: Re: Patches
I see no reason to restrict the entries, we are talking about Bernard Pietenpol's creation, a visionary with an eye to the future and limited by only the resources available.at the time. Like Wilbur and Orville who had no iea of the future everything is possible, even manned space flight, no reason to keep NASA out of the graphic. Just tossing some thoughts around is all. We are only limited by the expanse of our imagination and our willingness to experiment I doubt we could do justice to the creator and the creation if we didn't show the past with an eye to the future.The sky's the limit, the heavens are the limit, space is the limit... space to our knowledge is limitless John **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
horns
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control hornsJeff The stretch in the cable might be an indication of additional trouble. There could be damage to something else in the system and not just isolated to the horn. Other damage could occur before the horn gave way and relieved the stress. I know you did not want to hear this, but my $ .02 worth. Barry ( still groggy from a late night at the Big Piet Factory) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns Dear Pieters, Today my instructor and I managed to damage the Piet while still in its chocks; we bent the upper horn of the left elevator bell crank. I need your advice on repairs. How it happened: I was sitting in the cockpit. The tail was resting on a sawhorse. The instructor removed the sawhorse to lower the tail. The sawhorse wasn't placed far enough away and it caught the lower elevator cable. The tail was lowered all the way to ground without this being noticed. The upper horn bent over about 45 degrees towards the centerline (towards the rudder). We bent the horn back, and of course the horn now looks like an hourglass when viewed from fore or aft. Oddly, the lower cable has a little more slack than before; definitely more than the lower elevator cable on the other side. There does not appear to be any damage at all to the large, bell crank in the fuselage (behind the pilot's seat) at the other end of the cable. Note that the bell crank appears to be built to plans. The concerns: 1. Why is the cable slack even when the horn was bent back to vertical? I guess the cable could have stretched, but this is an eighth inch cable and I weigh 180. Doesn't seem like there would be that much tension. 2. Removing and replacing the bell crank will take a lot of effort and I want to go flying. Now. Could stiffeners be riveted to the horn instead? How much strength has been lost due to the bend-unbend cycle, and how much strength is needed here? 3. If it must be removed and replaced/rebuilt, what procedure would require the least number of steps to accomplish this, with minimal further damage? Thanks for any advice on this. I am seriously bummed as I planned to fly all this week! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2008
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Patches
>>I doubt we could do justice to the creator and the creation if we didn't show the past with an eye to the future.The sky's >>the limit, the heavens are the limit, space is the limit... space to our knowledge is limitless >>John I agree. Let's get this SpaceShip0.1 patch off the ground. Stinemetze ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns
Barry, Gary, Oscar, Don, and others, Thanks much for the advice. I plan to remove the bell crank today, repair if possible, make new one if not. However, the slack in the lower elevator cable is of primary concern to me. As Barry points out, it may indicate additional trouble. So, what are the possibilities? I will list some, please comment on these, and add others that you think of. I will check out all suggestions this afternoon. Again, your time and thoughts are much appreciated. 1. The cable stretched. Seems unlikely as this is a 1/8" cable and there wasn't that much tension. However, it is a possibility. Is there a way to determine whether it stretched? 2. A horn of the large bell crank behind the pilot's seat also bent. Or, the bracket assembly pulled loose or some other part of the assembly was damaged. This seems unlikely for a couple of reasons. First, I looked it over pretty closely and wiggled it all around. All seems to be in order. Second, the elevator cables on the other side are still just fine. Third, the whole thing is hell-for-stout compared to the rest of the elevator system. However, please make suggestions about what you think is the critical item(s) to inspect on this. 3. The elevator leading edge (where the front of the bell crank is attached) was damaged. I have not removed the bell crank entirely, so this remains to be inspected. I got part way through this before the sun set. 4. The entire horizontal tail assembly was pulled forward on that side. I have looked closely at this, and did not see or feel any looseness that would suggest this is happened. 5. Please add your own suggestions. Thanks again, Jeff >Jeff >The stretch in the cable might be an indication of additional >trouble. There could be damage to something else in the system and >not just isolated to the horn. Other damage could occur before the >horn gave way and relieved the stress. I know you did not want to >hear this, but my $ .02 worth. >Barry >( still groggy from a late night at the Big Piet Factory) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu>Jeff Boatright >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:11 PM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator >control horns > >Dear Pieters, > >Today my instructor and I managed to damage the Piet while still in >its chocks; we bent the upper horn of the left elevator bell crank. >I need your advice on repairs. > >How it happened: I was sitting in the cockpit. The tail was resting >on a sawhorse. The instructor removed the sawhorse to lower the >tail. The sawhorse wasn't placed far enough away and it caught the >lower elevator cable. The tail was lowered all the way to ground >without this being noticed. The upper horn bent over about 45 >degrees towards the centerline (towards the rudder). We bent the >horn back, and of course the horn now looks like an hourglass when >viewed from fore or aft. Oddly, the lower cable has a little more >slack than before; definitely more than the lower elevator cable on >the other side. There does not appear to be any damage at all to the >large, bell crank in the fuselage (behind the pilot's seat) at the >other end of the cable. > >Note that the bell crank appears to be built to plans. > >The concerns: > >1. Why is the cable slack even when the horn was bent back to >vertical? I guess the cable could have stretched, but this is an >eighth inch cable and I weigh 180. Doesn't seem like there would be >that much tension. > >2. Removing and replacing the bell crank will take a lot of effort >and I want to go flying. Now. Could stiffeners be riveted to the >horn instead? How much strength has been lost due to the bend-unbend >cycle, and how much strength is needed here? > >3. If it must be removed and replaced/rebuilt, what procedure would >require the least number of steps to accomplish this, with minimal >further damage? > >Thanks for any advice on this. I am seriously bummed as I planned to >fly all this week! > >Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
horns
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Jeff, You reported that you tried to bend the horn back to position, but that it ended up looking a little like an hour glass. That alone would probably account for a dimensional change from where the original hole was. Furthermore, once the horn was bent, you really have no way of knowing exactly where the original position was. It is conceivable that the fabricator may not have had the horn straight to begin with. It may have been favoring the opposite direction. I'm glad you have decided to give it a thorough inspection.just don't waste time chasing ghosts. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns Barry, Gary, Oscar, Don, and others, Thanks much for the advice. I plan to remove the bell crank today, repair if possible, make new one if not. However, the slack in the lower elevator cable is of primary concern to me. As Barry points out, it may indicate additional trouble. So, what are the possibilities? I will list some, please comment on these, and add others that you think of. I will check out all suggestions this afternoon. Again, your time and thoughts are much appreciated. 1. The cable stretched. Seems unlikely as this is a 1/8" cable and there wasn't that much tension. However, it is a possibility. Is there a way to determine whether it stretched? 2. A horn of the large bell crank behind the pilot's seat also bent. Or, the bracket assembly pulled loose or some other part of the assembly was damaged. This seems unlikely for a couple of reasons. First, I looked it over pretty closely and wiggled it all around. All seems to be in order. Second, the elevator cables on the other side are still just fine. Third, the whole thing is hell-for-stout compared to the rest of the elevator system. However, please make suggestions about what you think is the critical item(s) to inspect on this. 3. The elevator leading edge (where the front of the bell crank is attached) was damaged. I have not removed the bell crank entirely, so this remains to be inspected. I got part way through this before the sun set. 4. The entire horizontal tail assembly was pulled forward on that side. I have looked closely at this, and did not see or feel any looseness that would suggest this is happened. 5. Please add your own suggestions. Thanks again, Jeff Jeff The stretch in the cable might be an indication of additional trouble. There could be damage to something else in the system and not just isolated to the horn. Other damage could occur before the horn gave way and relieved the stress. I know you did not want to hear this, but my $ .02 worth. Barry ( still groggy from a late night at the Big Piet Factory) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright <mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns Dear Pieters, Today my instructor and I managed to damage the Piet while still in its chocks; we bent the upper horn of the left elevator bell crank. I need your advice on repairs. How it happened: I was sitting in the cockpit. The tail was resting on a sawhorse. The instructor removed the sawhorse to lower the tail. The sawhorse wasn't placed far enough away and it caught the lower elevator cable. The tail was lowered all the way to ground without this being noticed. The upper horn bent over about 45 degrees towards the centerline (towards the rudder). We bent the horn back, and of course the horn now looks like an hourglass when viewed from fore or aft. Oddly, the lower cable has a little more slack than before; definitely more than the lower elevator cable on the other side. There does not appear to be any damage at all to the large, bell crank in the fuselage (behind the pilot's seat) at the other end of the cable. Note that the bell crank appears to be built to plans. The concerns: 1. Why is the cable slack even when the horn was bent back to vertical? I guess the cable could have stretched, but this is an eighth inch cable and I weigh 180. Doesn't seem like there would be that much tension. 2. Removing and replacing the bell crank will take a lot of effort and I want to go flying. Now. Could stiffeners be riveted to the horn instead? How much strength has been lost due to the bend-unbend cycle, and how much strength is needed here? 3. If it must be removed and replaced/rebuilt, what procedure would require the least number of steps to accomplish this, with minimal further damage? Thanks for any advice on this. I am seriously bummed as I planned to fly all this week! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5
Those that are using alternate airfoils, how are you determining your CG ra nge? - Ryan Michalkiewicz - --- On Thu, 12/25/08, LarryB55 wrote: From: LarryB55 <morrisonintexas(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 612 and 613.5 Winglets Date: Thursday, December 25, 2008, 10:09 PM I'm wondering if anyone knows if Mr. Buckolt is still selling the full size profiles of the 612 and 613.5 airfoil? I have his snail-mail address. I als o emailed him through his website, but haven't heard back- thus the question. Wouldn't want to call and disturb the man. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221149#221149 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
horns
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Jeff, I would look for wood splitting near all the attachment bolts in the tail and control setup. The front of the elevator would be the most likely spot. Also, check to make sure the brace wire fittings are ok. I think Gary might be correct on the cable could go slack just from trying to bend it back. You really dont know where the hole was before it bent and how close to that position you have it now. As for fixing, the quickest horn to make would be a flat plate horn. I think the GN-1 uses flat plate horns. I can check my GN-1 plans when I get home and give you more detail if you want. Without seeing the damaged horn I would be hesitant to weld on a patch to repair the horn. Seems like this is an important part of the plane that contributes to a gentle return to earth. -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221799#221799 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BYD(at)att.net
Subject: Patch design
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Just a suggestion but, has anyone considered the design that Steve Eldredge uses on his caps as a patch design? Its been around awhile representing the fraternity and I would think Steve would allow it and maybe even produce them since he has an embroidery outfit already selected. Just a thought. Larry Williams if youre looking for Chris Egsgaard or Billy Pobah, Id try the machine shop! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Ryan; You could ask Riblett but If I remember correctly, Doc Mosher's narrative and analysis on determining CG range for the Piet pretty much covered most conventional airfoils at least as a starting point. Here's Doc's commentary, from Oct. of 2002: ====================== Recently there have been some questions concerning establishing practical CG limits on homebuilt Pietenpols. Perhaps by going back to the Piet era (1930s) we can gain an insight about how the CG limits were established in those days ("That's how Bernie did it.") Years ago, the CAA published a manual that all the A&E mechanics (Aircraft & Engine mechanics in those days) used as a standard for airworthy repairs and alterations. It was called the "Department of Commerce, Civil Aeronautics Administration Manual 18." The title was "Maintenance, Repair, and Alteration of Certificated Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Propellers, and Instruments." Manual 18 had a bunch of changes over the years, so don't use a Manual 18 printed later than 1941 or it may not have these 1930s tips about weight and balance limits. Back in the early 1930s, the Type Certificate Data Sheets that were issued by the CAA for each model of certificated airplane were quite brief - 10 or 12 lines of print. Today, those same TCDSs for those antique airplanes still appear in that brief, sweet, naive condition. Compare that with today's TCDS of the popular Aeronca Champion - 32 pages! So if the C.G. limits are not set by the FAA in a TCDS (and of course, on your homebuilt experimental Pietenpol there is no TCDS), how can you know where the limits should be? If you can find an old pre-WWII Manual 18 (my reference is "As amended June 1, 1941), you will find a couple of interesting rules of thumb about Center of Gravity locations. For instance, on page II-5, under "E. APPROVED CENTER OF GRAVITY LIMITS" 1. Current Models - stated on the pertinent aircraft specification in percent of the MAC or in inches aft of a given datum. This information may be obtained from the local Civil Aeronautics Inspector. 2. Older Models - In the case of those models for which approved limits are not given on the specification or listing, it will usually be acceptable to assume the limits to be at 18% and 30% of the MAC for low and mid wing monoplanes and 22% and 34% of the MAC for high wing monoplanes and biplanes. Inasmuch as several models are known to have satisfactory flight characteristics with the C.G. beyond such arbitrary positions, these should not be considered hard and fast limits. In such cases, approval will depend largely upon the recommendations of the examining inspector. The major consideration governing approval of such cases will be the relative change in the empty weight C.G. due to the alterations, rather than the absolute C.G. extremes. If the approved forward limit thus determined is exceeded, it may be considered satisfactory provided that it is demonstrated to the local Civil Aeronautics Inspector that the aircraft can be landed in the three-point position when landed in the extreme forward condition. Page II-6 of old CAA Manual 18 goes on to say: G. DETERMINATION OF LOADED CENTER OF GRAVITY EXTREMES (The most forward and most rearward C.G. positions obtainable as equipped and with the most critical distribution of useful load.) The loaded extremes may be determined either, (1) by weighing the two loaded conditions or, (2) by computation. Both procedures have a common objective; namely, to demonstrate that, under the most adverse loading conditions (forward and aft), the C.G. positions will not exceed the approved limits (Part E) which have been determined by flight test as the most extreme positions at which the model will satisfactorily comply with the Civil Air Regulations. A note on page II-17 states: When the necessary information is not included in the pertinent specifications (as for older models), it will be necessary to obtain such data by computation and actual measurement. OK, when you start your establishment of loaded C.G. limits on your Pietenpol, lets use these old CAA limits (22% of the MAC for forward limit and 34% of the MAC for the rearward limit on your high wing monoplane). A forward C.G. may make it so you cannot land the airplane in a three-point position (put another way, the engine is just too heavy for the too-small elevators at slow speed to overcome). A rearward C.G. starts to get into problems with stability and spin recovery. Vaughan Askue in his book Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft says "C.G. provides the most direct method the pilot has for controlling pitch stability. Moving the C.G. forward increases the effectiveness of the horizontal tail and improves both static and dynamic stability. The primary objective of a stability test program is to prove that the airplane has acceptable stability characteristics at a limiting C.G. This C.G. then becomes the aft C.G. limit called out in the airplane's limitations. If moving the C.G. limit forward gives acceptable stability without hurting the utility of the airplane, then this is the simplest fix for a stability problem. What does all this mean in your Piet? If you establish the fore and aft loaded C.G. limits at something like 22% and 34% of the Mean Aerodynamic Chord and try to stay away from the rear limit as much as possible (that's the one where instability starts to take over), you will probably be OK. Historically, most Piets come out of the jig being tail heavy because they don't have that heavy Ford A engine on the front end of the teeter-totter. If you increase the arm of the engine weight of a 220# Corvair engine, for example, (move it 4 or 5 inches forward of where the Ford used to be) your Piet will probably not be chronically tail heavy. Then, if you want, you can tweak it by moving the wing fore or aft - usually aft - to really set the loaded CG between your goal numbers of 22/34% That's how Bernie did it. It still works. A pound is a pound the world around. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Chris wrote- >Without seeing the damaged horn I would be hesitant to weld on a patch >to repair the horn. Seems like this is an important part of the plane >that contributes to a gentle return to earth. That was my feeling about my rudder horn so I was good and ready to make a new one. However, my master machinist/welder/shop supervisor looked it over and told me that I wouldn't need to heat the part before straightening it out and working it back into its "airfoil" shape since it had not deformed that severely. As I say, we were good and ready to make a new part but it was not deemed necessary once we worked it back out to original shape and dressed it. Hopefully, Jeff's can be worked back out too. I think the slack cable situation will end up being Case #3 of the scenarios he laid out... either crushed or broken wood. And yet, that's the nice thing about wood: there are many ways to repair it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2008
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5
Thanks Oscar, looks like great info. I purchased the Riblett book in hopes to find my answer there but no luck there. Next, how do you determine the -correct angle of incedence for a non Piet wing? Ryan M - --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Oscar Zuniga wrote: From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5 Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 2:12 PM Ryan; You could ask Riblett but If I remember correctly, Doc Mosher's narrative and analysis on determining CG range for the Piet pretty much covered most conventional airfoils at least as a starting point. Here's Doc's commentary, from Oct. of 2002: ====================== Recently there have been some questions concerning establishing practical CG limits on homebuilt Pietenpols. Perhaps by going back to the Piet era (1930s) we can gain an insight about how the CG limits were established in those days ("That's how Bernie did it.") Years ago, the CAA published a manual that all the A&E mechanics (Aircraft & Engine mechanics in those days) used as a standard for airworthy repairs and alterations. It was called the "Department of Commerce, Civil Aeronautics Administration Manual 18." The title was "Maintenance, Repair, and Alteration of Certificated Aircraft, Aircraft Engines, Propellers, and Instruments." Manual 18 had a bunch of changes over the years, so don't use a Manual 18 printed later than 1941 or it may not have these 1930s tips about weight and balance limits. Back in the early 1930s, the Type Certificate Data Sheets that were issued by the CAA for each model of certificated airplane were quite brief - 10 or 12 lines of print. Today, those same TCDSs for those antique airplanes still appear in that brief, sweet, naive condition. Compare that with today's TCDS of the popular Aeronca Champion - 32 pages! So if the C.G. limits are not set by the FAA in a TCDS (and of course, on your homebuilt experimental Pietenpol there is no TCDS), how can you know where the limits should be? If you can find an old pre-WWII Manual 18 (my reference is "As amended June 1, 1941), you will find a couple of interesting rules of thumb about Center of Gravity locations. For instance, on page II-5, under "E. APPROVED CENTER OF GRAVITY LIMITS" 1. Current Models - stated on the pertinent aircraft specification in percent of the MAC or in inches aft of a given datum. This information may be obtained from the local Civil Aeronautics Inspector. 2. Older Models - In the case of those models for which approved limits are not given on the specification or listing, it will usually be acceptable to assume the limits to be at 18% and 30% of the MAC for low and mid wing monoplanes and 22% and 34% of the MAC for high wing monoplanes and biplanes. Inasmuch as several models are known to have satisfactory flight characteristics with the C.G. beyond such arbitrary positions, these should not be considered hard and fast limits. In such cases, approval will depend largely upon the recommendations of the examining inspector. The major consideration governing approval of such cases will be the relative change in the empty weight C.G. due to the alterations, rather than the absolute C.G. extremes. If the approved forward limit thus determined is exceeded, it may be considered satisfactory provided that it is demonstrated to the local Civil Aeronautics Inspector that the aircraft can be landed in the three-point position when landed in the extreme forward condition. Page II-6 of old CAA Manual 18 goes on to say: G. DETERMINATION OF LOADED CENTER OF GRAVITY EXTREMES (The most forward and most rearward C.G. positions obtainable as equipped and with the most critical distribution of useful load.) The loaded extremes may be determined either, (1) by weighing the two loaded conditions or, (2) by computation. Both procedures have a common objective; namely, to demonstrate that, under the most adverse loading conditions (forward and aft), the C.G. positions will not exceed the approved limits (Part E) which have been determined by flight test as the most extreme positions at which the model will satisfactorily comply with the Civil Air Regulations. A note on page II-17 states: When the necessary information is not included in the pertinent specifications (as for older models), it will be necessary to obtain such data by computation and actual measurement. OK, when you start your establishment of loaded C.G. limits on your Pietenpol, lets use these old CAA limits (22% of the MAC for forward limit and 34% of the MAC for the rearward limit on your high wing monoplane). A forward C.G. may make it so you cannot land the airplane in a three-point position (put another way, the engine is just too heavy for the too-small elevators at slow speed to overcome). A rearward C.G. starts to get into problems with stability and spin recovery. Vaughan Askue in his book Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft says "C.G. provides the most direct method the pilot has for controlling pitch stability. Moving the C.G. forward increases the effectiveness of the horizontal tail and improves both static and dynamic stability. The primary objective of a stability test program is to prove that the airplane has acceptable stability characteristics at a limiting C.G. This C.G. then becomes the aft C.G. limit called out in the airplane's limitations. If moving the C.G. limit forward gives acceptable stability without hurting the utility of the airplane, then this is the simplest fix for a stability problem. What does all this mean in your Piet? If you establish the fore and aft loaded C.G. limits at something like 22% and 34% of the Mean Aerodynamic Chord and try to stay away from the rear limit as much as possible (that's the one where instability starts to take over), you will probably be OK. Historically, most Piets come out of the jig being tail heavy because they don't have that heavy Ford A engine on the front end of the teeter-totter. If you increase the arm of the engine weight of a 220# Corvair engine, for example, (move it 4 or 5 inches forward of where the Ford used to be) your Piet will probably not be chronically tail heavy. Then, if you want, you can tweak it by moving the wing fore or aft - usually aft - to really set the loaded CG between your goal numbers of 22 /34% That's how Bernie did it. It still works. A pound is a pound the world around. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Subject: Patch design
Good thought. I've already planned on making hats for the 80th, like I did for the 70th and 75th. Patches and embroidered t-shirts are in the works too. If you like it you can buy it. If you want to make your own, you can do that too. Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD(at)att.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Just a suggestion but, has anyone considered the design that Steve Eldredge uses on his caps as a patch design? Its been around awhile representing the fraternity and I would think Steve would allow it and maybe even produce them since he has an embroidery outfit already selected. Just a thought. Larry Williams if youre looking for Chris Egsgaard or Billy Pobah, Id try the machine shop! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Alternate Airfoils Riblett 612 and 613.5
Date: Dec 30, 2008
Ryan asks- >how do you determine the correct angle of incidence for a >non Piet wing? Well, you could go through a bunch of analysis and probably figure out a good starting point that way, but I'd say an even easier way would be to start by setting the angle of incidence of a non-Piet wing the same as for a Piet wing. It's probably going to require some tweaking no matter what, unless you use a wing and geometry that someone has already used and flown and can tell you what angle works. In order to change the incidence later, you'll have to change the length of either the front cabanes or the rear ones, as well as adjusting the front or rear lift struts to keep the same washout when the incidence is adjusted. One way to allow for adjustment of the cabane lengths is to use adjustable connections for either the front or the rear cabanes (I think I'd do the rear ones unless that adds more complexity, such as if your fuel line runs down one of the cabanes from a center-section fuel tank). That could be done by attaching the top ends to the wing with fork ends or something similar instead of fixed mounts. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Patch design
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Steve Sounds great you planning on showing us the patch before it goes into production? John ------Original Message------ From: Steve Eldredge Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Dec 30, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Good thought. I've already planned on making hats for the 80th, like I did for the 70th and 75th. Patches and embroidered t-shirts are in the works too. If you like it you can buy it. If you want to make your own, you can do that too. Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD(at)att.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Just a suggestion but, has anyone considered the design that Steve Eldredge uses on his caps as a patch design? Its been around awhile representing the fraternity and I would think Steve would allow it and maybe even produce them since he has an embroidery outfit already selected. Just a thought. Larry Williams if youre looking for Chris Egsgaard or Billy Pobah, Id try the machine shop! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 30, 2008
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
Well gang, I'm back from the airfield, and things look pretty good. I pulled the bell crank and handed it over to the resident "master machinist/welder/shop supervisor" and he said "that's unserviceable - but we'll MAKE it serviceable and STRONGER". He heated it a bit, straightened it, reformed it, then welded a stiffener along the length of the horn that was damaged. It is heavier than the original, but quite strong. It looked true from every angle, but the proof was in the pudding... Inspection of the wood showed no problems. It appears that the horn and the ear tabs of the bell crank, which had been quite deformed, took all the strain. I bolted the repaired bell crank back in and connected the cables. Astoundingly, all the holes lined up in the wood, and there was no slack in the cables. I guess you just can't beat 30 years of machining, welding, and fabricating in the field and shop. I would have bet any amount of my wife's paycheck that we would end the day with having to build a totally new one. Tomorrow I patch the fabric, and then maybe, go flying on the first! Thanks for all the input, Jeff > > >Chris wrote- > >>Without seeing the damaged horn I would be hesitant to weld on a patch >>to repair the horn. Seems like this is an important part of the plane >>that contributes to a gentle return to earth. > >That was my feeling about my rudder horn so I was good and ready to >make a new one. However, my master machinist/welder/shop supervisor >looked it over and told me that I wouldn't need to heat the part before >straightening it out and working it back into its "airfoil" shape >since it had not deformed that severely. As I say, we were good and >ready to make a new part but it was not deemed necessary once we worked >it back out to original shape and dressed it. Hopefully, Jeff's can >be worked back out too. > >I think the slack cable situation will end up being Case #3 of the >scenarios he laid out... either crushed or broken wood. And yet, that's >the nice thing about wood: there are many ways to repair it. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Hey Jeff Sounds like you got her fixed up without any ancillary issues to deal with. Now about that paycheck bet, I met your wife a really nice person. I doubt she would be all that nice having found out you bet her paycheck! Glad to hear you'll be back in action tomorrow Fly safe John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:16:05 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control Well gang, I'm back from the airfield, and things look pretty good. I pulled the bell crank and handed it over to the resident "master machinist/welder/shop supervisor" and he said "that's unserviceable - but we'll MAKE it serviceable and STRONGER". He heated it a bit, straightened it, reformed it, then welded a stiffener along the length of the horn that was damaged. It is heavier than the original, but quite strong. It looked true from every angle, but the proof was in the pudding... Inspection of the wood showed no problems. It appears that the horn and the ear tabs of the bell crank, which had been quite deformed, took all the strain. I bolted the repaired bell crank back in and connected the cables. Astoundingly, all the holes lined up in the wood, and there was no slack in the cables. I guess you just can't beat 30 years of machining, welding, and fabricating in the field and shop. I would have bet any amount of my wife's paycheck that we would end the day with having to build a totally new one. Tomorrow I patch the fabric, and then maybe, go flying on the first! Thanks for all the input, Jeff > > >Chris wrote- > >>Without seeing the damaged horn I would be hesitant to weld on a patch >>to repair the horn. Seems like this is an important part of the plane >>that contributes to a gentle return to earth. > >That was my feeling about my rudder horn so I was good and ready to >make a new one. However, my master machinist/welder/shop supervisor >looked it over and told me that I wouldn't need to heat the part before >straightening it out and working it back into its "airfoil" shape >since it had not deformed that severely. As I say, we were good and >ready to make a new part but it was not deemed necessary once we worked >it back out to original shape and dressed it. Hopefully, Jeff's can >be worked back out too. > >I think the slack cable situation will end up being Case #3 of the >scenarios he laid out... either crushed or broken wood. And yet, that's >the nice thing about wood: there are many ways to repair it. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Made a mistake
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope much building shall be done by all. I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up,the metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets. I am thinking that I could turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads? Or should I just make a new fin and hang this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221888#221888 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Made a mistake
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Carson, You could fill the space behind the gusset in the front of the vertical spar with spruce glued in place? The bracing wires take a lot of the load. Cheers Have a good one. Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Wednesday, 31 December 2008 8:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope much building shall be done by all. I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up,the metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets. I am thinking that I could turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads? Or should I just make a new fin and hang this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221888#221888 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Jeff, I've been following your wow's and although I really felt for you, there wasn't anything I could add to the expert advice you were already getting. It really pleases me to read that you took care of your problem and chances are you will be flying tomorrow. I too will be flying tomorrow. What a way to start off a new year.! Life is good Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control > > Well gang, I'm back from the airfield, and things look pretty good.> > Tomorrow I patch the fabric, and then maybe, go flying on the first! > > Thanks for all the input, > > Jeff > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Made a mistake
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Can you send a picture? I think Peter is right - you can probably fill the space between the gussets with spruce and be fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope much building shall be done by all. I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up,the metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets. I am thinking that I could turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads? Or should I just make a new fin and hang this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221888#221888 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: bent elevator horn
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Jeff; good on ya, mate! Doesn't it feel much better to know that you saw the damage, repaired it, and it will soon be good as new, with no doubt about its airworthiness? The saying is true, you get the best stories from people when you ask how they got a scar ;o) "Icarus Plummet" has been there, so has 41CC, so have others who have experienced cracks, crunches, rips, spills, falls, and other things that seemed like the end of the world at the time but ended up with new knowledge and experience. Shoot, the FAA even wrote and published a whole book about it... "AC43.13- Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices- Aircraft Alterations". Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 31, 2008
I like Jack's idea... picture? But it sounds like you can use it. The cables take up the side load. The fittings are really just an anchor. Once again I redefined cold for myself yesterday. Somewhere in the low 30s, but I got about a half hour fix in. I don't know how the guys that don't fly through the Winter do it. Gotta get my fix. Snow today... skis tomorrow? Happy New Year! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221909#221909 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Dec 31, 2008
By the way Carson... It says an awful lot about you as a builder to admit a mistake to everyone and be open to their suggestions as to how to fix. Very respectable! Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221910#221910 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Subject: Patch design
Sure! This is my starting point. http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZt3DVqyYvkg has two pictures... I can change thread colors and backgrounds easily, so send in your suggestions, I like the one that has only the "75 years" above the Camper, but want only the 75 years in a different color. The hats are the same as before, with the words 'LOW AND SLOW FOR 80 YEARS' or 'CHERRY GROVE - 80 - BRODHEAD' over the back adjustment. I have had several custom done with N-numbers which I may offer again. The patch version will have the 80 years inside the patch similar to the 75th. Comments welcome... If there is interest, I can start making them available now, instead of waiting till summer. Like the 70th year (1999) and the 75th year, I plan on bringing a supply of patches and hats and t-shirts, and maybe a few sweatshirts. Andrew (in the piet) and I in the Stinson, plan on making the trip together. I've invited all 4 of my brothers to make the trip. 3 of us are pilots... I'm already looking forward to the gathering!! Best regards, Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Steve Sounds great you planning on showing us the patch before it goes into production? John ------Original Message------ From: Steve Eldredge Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Dec 30, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Good thought. I've already planned on making hats for the 80th, like I did for the 70th and 75th. Patches and embroidered t-shirts are in the works too. If you like it you can buy it. If you want to make your own, you can do that too. Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD(at)att.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Just a suggestion but, has anyone considered the design that Steve Eldredge uses on his caps as a patch design? It's been around awhile representing the fraternity and I would think Steve would allow it and maybe even produce them since he has an embroidery outfit already selected. Just a thought. Larry Williams - if you're looking for Chris Egsgaard or Billy Pobah, I'd try the machine shop! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Subject: Pietenpol : [ Steve Eldredge ] : New Email List PhotoShare
Available!
From: Email List PhotoShares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Steve Eldredge Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Air Camper Patches http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steve@byu.edu.12.31.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2008
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: bent elevator horn
Repairs usually build more experience than constructing it from scratch the 1st time.- So much mor thought has to go in to it.- I have also had to make repairs to my project while building wings.- Knocked the whole wing pannel off the bench with 20 lbs of bar clamps, c-clamps on the trailing e dge.- Broke the t/e strip in 2 places, some gussets and 1 rib.- If it w as warm enough to start my old tractor I probably would have thrown it in t he yard and ran over it.- But after the rage subsides look objectivly at it and just fix it,- now it's as good as it was before and it wasn't real ly all that hard to fix.- Just part of the homebuilding fun. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: inboard wing bracing
Date: Dec 31, 2008
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay...I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com <http://www.thepalmergroup.com/> This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2008
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Dec 31, 2008
Thanks for the replies I was worried about adding extra weight down there do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. Here's some pic's Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222068#222068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_052_612.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_051_119.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
Date: Dec 31, 2008
It doesn't have to be any longer than will take the top bolt hole. Since the fin is captured by the stabilizer the only movement the bolts resist is upward. The bolt is then pressing downward in compression on the wood under the bolt. Nobody makes mistreaks here! :-) Clif Happy New Year! "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison > do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. > Here's some pic's > Carson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
Date: Jan 01, 2009
Carson, Looks like a 1 1/2" triangular block would do nicely. Cheers Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Thursday, 1 January 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake Thanks for the replies I was worried about adding extra weight down there do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. Here's some pic's Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222068#222068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_052_612.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_051_119.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Date: Dec 31, 2008
A number of concave wings are not rib stitched but glued. ie. Avid. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 12/25/2008 9:40 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2009
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Gene, So you mean that you glue all the ribs with the fabric loose, then heat shrink each panel? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing A number of concave wings are not rib stitched but glued. ie. Avid. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 12/25/2008 9:40 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2009
From: Richard Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re:Re: Pietenpol Patch Design
In the for-what-it-may-be-worth department, how about the origin date, 1933, instead of the anniversary, and using a reproduction of the Piet instead of the word's Air Camper. My rationale is that (1) there would be no need to produce a new patch for every anniversary, and (2) not everybody who is building or has built a Piet is faithfully following the Air Camper plans. Or, instead of changing the proposed design, offer a second patch for we deviants. Happy (Building/Flying) New Year to All!! Dick Carden ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Date: Jan 01, 2009
I didn't build the Avid I had, so I can't answer the building details. The ribs have cap strips the fabric is glued to. Even thou Dean Wilson (the designer) suggested the glue instead of rib stitching, there is some disagreement among Avid builders as which way is best. If your really interested you might go to the Yahoo Avid site. It's a good group with lots of builders and I'm sure you'll get lots of info (and opinions) about gluing verses rib stitching. When I bought my Avid there were two small spots where the fabric was not glued down (it had been missed). All I needed to do was use a large syringe and inject glue. >From all the facts (not opinion) that I could locate I was never able to find an accident that was caused by not rib stitching, on slow aircraft such as the Piets and Avids. While flying the Avid I had zero concerns with the glued fabric, otherwise I would never have flown it. For anyone that does have concerns, they really need to rib stitch. My motto is: "I worry about everything while the plane is on the ground, so I don't have to worry about it while in the air". Just my opinion Happy New Year 20 degrees with clear skies. It's Piet flying time! Gene N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gene, So you mean that you glue all the ribs with the fabric loose, then heat shrink each panel? walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Date: Jan 01, 2009
Walt, I think you misunderstood me or I said it wrong. I have the piet wing with the under camber. The wood strips run along under the top and bottom of the ribs. This takes place of the rib lacing. The bottom of the wings are glued and entire wing is rib stiched and shrunk as per the poly fibre manual. I hope this clears it up. Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gene, So you mean that you glue all the ribs with the fabric loose, then heat shrink each panel? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing A number of concave wings are not rib stitched but glued. ie. Avid. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 12/25/2008 9:40 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Re: Pietenpol Patch Design
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 2009
Happy New year to all, suckers like me would jump all over anything Pietenpol and get two of each. That would be 1 set of everything for me and the other for the only interested person in my family, my 4 year old Grandson. All the others are either disinterested or just hate the entire project and all that is connected to it. John ------Original Message------ From: Richard Carden Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jan 1, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Re: Pietenpol Patch Design In the for-what-it-may-be-worth department, how about the origin date, 1933, instead of the anniversary, and using a reproduction of the Piet instead of the word's Air Camper. My rationale is that (1) there would be no need to produce a new patch for every anniversary, and (2) not everybody who is building or has built a Piet is faithfully following the Air Camper plans. Or, instead of changing the proposed design, offer a second patch for we deviants. Happy (Building/Flying) New Year to All!! Dick Carden Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
Date: Jan 01, 2009
Hi Carson, I would just add a small block of spruce to fill the gap between the gussets. It only needs to be long enough to give good edge distance on the bolt hole for the top bolt. The only weight added will be a few grams of spruce and epoxy. Another thing to think about before bolting the fin in place is whether or not to provide an offset to counteract torque. I put two sets of bolt holes in my stabilizer - one to make the fin right on the centerline, the other to shift the leading edge of the fin an inch to the left of the centerline. I originally assembled it with the fin offset and have not changed it. I wish I had made the holes such that it would be 1-1/2" off the centerline and that would be about right (I have a 65 Continental, it would be different and in the opposite direction if you have a Corvair). I still have to hold just a bit of right rudder in cruise. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake Thanks for the replies I was worried about adding extra weight down there do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. Here's some pic's Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222068#222068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_052_612.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_051_119.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2009
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: inboard wing bracing
Thanks for the response. That clears it up walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Walt, I think you misunderstood me or I said it wrong. I have the piet wing with the under camber. The wood strips run along under the top and bottom of the ribs. This takes place of the rib lacing. The bottom of the wings are glued and entire wing is rib stiched and shrunk as per the poly fibre manual. I hope this clears it up. Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gene, So you mean that you glue all the ribs with the fabric loose, then heat shrink each panel? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing A number of concave wings are not rib stitched but glued. ie. Avid. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 12/25/2008 9:40 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Year end
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 01, 2009
Well gang I was in contact with my tech counselor who made his first visit last Fathers day. I thought it a fitting tribute as buildapalooza comes to a close. I was getting ready to resume my spar routing after welding up a parallel jig for the router upon his arrival. It was a really good visit. Herb Rose my Tc who you may recall was the source of an EAA article a few months ago did the inspection. Much to my pleasure he gave excellent marks for wood and metal work craftsmanship for my build. Just a really nice way to bring the year to a close. I wanted to share the good news with my fellow Piet builders. John Still a few days left to the official end of buildapalooza 08 then its back to the job and weekends only building. That sucks I sure wish I didn't need to have a job Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Date: Jan 01, 2009
I hereby lay claim to being the first Pietenpol list member to watch "The Great Waldo Pepper" in the new year of 2009. Actually, it was the first time I've ever seen the movie (I have it on VCR and now on DVD but had not viewed it since acquiring my own mint condition videotape). I expected a fairly lightweight film but it has EXCELLENT air action, a good story line, some very tense scenes, and I'm glad I own the movie now. I think my favorite line is going to be "I never give rides to kids- but for you I'll make an exception" (or whatever it is he tells the kid in the opening piece). Good movie. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Well, Oscar: I got a DVD copy for Christmas and finished watching it about an hour ago, so we may be tied for the first two to watch The Great Waldo Pepper this year. I saw it in the theater when it first came out over 30 years ago, and it is still a great movie. My wife said it took a lot of shopping to find a copy, but I'm glad she did. Makes me want to fly tomorrow, but its been real windy down here in Florida. I can still hope..... Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Aircamper NX866BC (got leading edge tape, drainage grommets and root end perimeter tapes on the right wing today) Baby Ace N39D Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > I hereby lay claim to being the first Pietenpol list member to watch "The Great Waldo Pepper" in the new year of 2009. Actually, it was the first time I've ever seen the movie (I have it on VCR and now on DVD but had not viewed it since acquiring my own mint condition videotape). > > I expected a fairly lightweight film but it has EXCELLENT air action, a good story line, some very tense scenes, and I'm glad I own the movie now. > > I think my favorite line is going to be "I never give rides to kids- but for you I'll make an exception" (or whatever it is he tells the kid in the opening piece). Good movie. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2009
The let me be the first to congratulate your accomplishment. Some might say its the greatest accomplishment in avaition, I my self would not. Its the greatest accomplishment since the invention of the airoplane John ------Original Message------ From: Oscar Zuniga Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jan 1, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 I hereby lay claim to being the first Pietenpol list member to watch "The Great Waldo Pepper" in the new year of 2009. Actually, it was the first time I've ever seen the movie (I have it on VCR and now on DVD but had not viewed it since acquiring my own mint condition videotape). I expected a fairly lightweight film but it has EXCELLENT air action, a good story line, some very tense scenes, and I'm glad I own the movie now. I think my favorite line is going to be "I never give rides to kids- but for you I'll make an exception" (or whatever it is he tells the kid in the opening piece). Good movie. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Run-in with the band saw
Happy 2009 too;I had an old wood working teacher who used to show us how to move wood through a band saw.He would use another piece of wood or a clamp to move it.If the piece got out of place then the piece of wood or clamp w ould get cut and not his fingers.Just a little tip fom an old guy that's pr obably long since past on.He would do the same for any machinery;any saw or grinder etc.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jack T . Textor =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A Sent: Friday, January 2, 2009 7:38:18 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Run-in with the band saw=0A=0A=0AHappy 2009 to all.- The band saw got me yesterd ay, left middle finger, cut to the bone.- This was my first Piet accident and I hope the last.- Play it safe in 2009 all.=0AJack=0Awww.textors.com == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: off-topic: Fairchild 51
Date: Jan 02, 2009
Since traffic is a little slow and I know some of you like radial engines, take a look at David Stroud's Fairchild 51 replica: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9773776@N08/sets/72157601305722923/ That is quite a large airframe! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Pietenpol aerobatics
Curious, anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane? I am wondering if things like hammer heads and tail slides can be done. Anyone ever get up the nerve to try anything other then straight and level, or is this the last plane to even think about such things? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Date: Jan 02, 2009
Might have to call you on that one Oscar, what time did you watch it????? About 10am here Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com> To: Pietenpol List Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 > I hereby lay claim to being the first Pietenpol list member to watch "The Great Waldo Pepper" in the new year of 2009. Actually, it was the first time I've ever seen the movie (I have it on VCR and now on DVD but had not viewed it since acquiring my own mint condition videotape). I expected a fairly lightweight film but it has EXCELLENT air action, a good story line, some very tense scenes, and I'm glad I own the movie now. I think my favorite line is going to be "I never give rides to kids- but for you I'll make an exception" (or whatever it is he tells the kid in the opening piece). Good movie. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol aerobatics
Date: Jan 02, 2009
Mike asked- >anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane? I have not. I was keen to practice spins and spin recovery in 41CC but my instructor, who is proficient at aerobatics, felt that the airplane might not have as much rudder as he'd like so we didn't try spins. >things like hammer heads and tail slides Hammerheads, I wouldn't think would be an issue at all. Tail slides- yikes! I'd be very hesitant to try that. The iffy part of it is that a hammerhead can result in a tail-slide if the rudder break is not performed in time, and either one can result in a spin if not performed right. I'm not saying the Piet is impossible to spin and recover from, I'm just saying I haven't demonstrated spins in mine. Yet. By the way, thinking about the tail surfaces, in the recent discussion about the L-brackets that mount the vertical stabilizer to the fuselage and horizontal stabilizers, someone mentioned that the only force that the through-bolts would see is an upward pull as drag pulls the stabilizer aft. I disagree, having looked back at the tail in flight often enough to know that those surfaces see quite a bit of buffetting from propeller slipstream and turbulence. In addition, in a slip I would think that the surfaces would see some sidewise forces as well. At any rate, I agree that a wooden block between the gussets would do nicely to fix the little misalignment of the spars and provide a good grip for the L-brackets. I would also agree with putting in some offset (or the ability to do so if needed later). My airplane has a fixed tab on the rudder and could use just a skosh more... but a fixed offset in the vertical stabilizer leading edge would take care of that. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
Michael, Good question. I have asked this question a few times myself. I have been told that a power-on stall happens well below 20 degrees, and is not an event, as the plane recovers well. Many slip their Piets very handily, and perhaps some quite sharply, to align for landings. A sharp slip is something to learn at greater altitude, though. Those maneuvers are a long way from a hammerhead, of course. A gentleman in Wisconsin told me that he has both rolled and looped his Pietenpol. A gentleman in Florida told me that he had looped his Piet. Both men reported good control and no damage. A few others asked such questions look off into space and don't answer. Some who have done the math on the Piet's wing have stated that it is overbuilt. Of course, good jury struts are essential for either maneuver. If I ever get to that point and have the aerobatics itch, I will supress it. I'd never be able to get a parachute on and get in the plane, and most of us-- even short thin guys-- might not get out of a damaged Piet while wearing a parachute. Second, my US Army parachute landings were not all that good over forty years ago, and I don't bend well now. Third, we will all have enough time building the plane that we don't want to lose it. Fourth, what might the disabled plane hit on the ground? Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> >Sent: Jan 2, 2009 12:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics > >Curious, anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane? I am wondering if things like hammer heads and tail slides can be done. Anyone ever get up the nerve to try anything other then straight and level, or is this the last plane to even think about such things? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol aerobatics
Date: Jan 02, 2009
Tim wrote- >I have been told that a power-on stall happens well below >20 degrees, and is not an event, as the plane recovers well. It's not an event but I would question the 20 degree figure, at least in my plane. I will take a digital level up with me and try power-on stalls to see what it reads, because the nose sure seems to go a lot higher than that in 41CC. All I see are clouds in the view ahead! >Many slip their Piets very handily, and perhaps some quite >sharply, to align for landings. I slip 41CC on just about every landing, and I believe I've had the rudders to the stop or nearly so on at least one occasion in a slip. >A sharp slip is something to learn at greater altitude I guess, but I was taught slips before I even had one hour in my logbook. I learned in a J-3, so slips are used for final adjustment of altitude on just about every landing. I don't believe I ever was shown a slip at anything higher than a couple of hundred feet AGL, if that. Slips are not dangerous maneuvers, as the airplane wants to come right out of it if pressure is let off the controls and it takes conscious muscle and effort to hold the airplane in a slip. It was even demonstrated to me that in the event that I found myself needing to lose altitude in a great hurry, to put the airplane in a stall and let it mush on down, then recover at the altitude where I wanted to be. I have not tried that one at low altitude intentionally, but it should work. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Pietenpol aerobatics
Date: Jan 02, 2009
> It's not an event but I would question the 20 degree figure, > at least in my plane. I will take a digital level up with me > and try power-on stalls to see what it reads, because the nose > sure seems to go a lot higher than that in 41CC. All I see > are clouds in the view ahead! Rookie mistake. :) Look out at your wingtip and the horizon. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2009
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Nose of de Riblett
Group, - When designing your rib jigs, does most everyone build the nose undersized to accommodate for the additional leading edge ply/material or do you build as it and cover? - -Plotting my jigs - Ryan Michalkiewicz=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
The only aerobatics I have done in the piet, is a lomchevec, followed by a knife edge loop and a 2 turn snap roll, with a wing walker on the lift stru ts.- Works better than a Pitts Special.- Next thing we may try is a lan ding gear on top of the wing so we can do inverted touch and goes. - Just Kidding (Obviously) Happy and safe New Year to All Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: More leading edge questions/ideas
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2009
I probably over-analyzed the leading edge question myself to the point of paralysis. Tried using a plane to shape wood, it works, but I couldn't get two wing length pieces made with a consistent enough shape. My top wings follow the Gregga GN-1 specs and have a 1 inch square wood piece supporting .016 aluminum. (They are done, but even with each side cut in to three pieces of aluminum, and a zillion little nails/brads holding them down, they move a lot with temperature changes, think wood is the way to go.) What I finally decided to do was have custom cutters made up by a molding shop to exactly the shape of the leading edge and then have them make up a couple perfect shaped boards for me. It took two weeks and $240, and still left the challenge of shaping the ends to blend in with the wingtips. My wingtip ends extended well past where the leading edge wood was going to attach and I had no idea how to get the cut right on the wingtip wood. The long molding leading edge pieces were flexible enough that I was able to bend them, and clamp the leading edge piece in place, butting up against the side of the wingtip. I used a backwards clamp (pushing out) to slightly extend the leading edge molding piece past where it would intersect with the wingtip (so I would have some room to square and true up the wingtip) then used a thin japanese pull saw against the leading edge to cut the wingtip. Then took off the clamped on leading edge and filed and sanded the wingtip flat and to length. The wingtip matched up to the leading edge perfectly. Then I clamped the leading edge in place at many points, and used a plane to shape the end to blend with the wingtip. thought it would have been exactly in the middle of the leading edge, but it was about 1/3 from the top instead of 1/2, so I planed it twice on the long side for every once on the short one. Did some rounding strokes to make it all even and it came out well. Once it was approaching the size I thought it should be (about same size as the wingtip it was joining with) I used the japanese saw to cut the leading edge end to length, and then a fine file and sanding blocks to finish it up. Think it turned out well. Jim D. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222466#222466 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00030_190.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00029_665.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00028_415.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img00025_235.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 02, 2009
If your Piet is tail heavy and the pilot is around 200 Lbs, don't go more than 2 turns in a spin, or you will need close to 100 HP to get the tail back over your head, Practice one (1) turn at a time. A roll can be done IF you go into it at least 95 and can maintain 70, and keep positive G all the way around, But the engine should also keep full power during the entire roll. Loops are easy, keep up your speed, Snaps are tough with a full length wing. WARNING ! ! Do NOT get caught upside down, and not flying, tough on shoulder straps. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222496#222496 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tail wheel spring fitting
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Hi all How have people that have used the leaf spring type tailwheel fitted it to the A/C? Does anyone have some close up pictures or drawings I am sure that I have seen some somewhere a while back but cant seem to find them. Thanks for any help Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222518#222518 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Split axle bungees
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Split axle Pieters, I have question for you guys that have wrapped the split axle bungees. I'm on my third set. My first set was only half inch and didn't work out too well. My second set was 5/8" and worked well for a couple of years. This past summer I ordered more 5/8" and replaced them but the bungee stock just didn't seem to be the same quality. They've softened some already. I like them nice and tight. Anyway I think I might take them off, shorten them some and wrap them back on. I have just been wrapping them on by hand. Lots of cussing required! Does anyone have any special tricks they've come up with to wrap them suckers on there really tight? Maybe a come-along? Some kind of fixture? Thanks, Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222540#222540 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel spring fitting
There is an excellent archive here on the Pietenpol list that if you take t he time to rubble through it you may find some pictures on this.I didn't ke ep the letters in my archives because I know this one is more comprehensive .-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: carson <carsonv ella(at)yahoo.com.au>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, Jan uary 3, 2009 4:13:43 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel spring fittin m.au>=0A=0AHi all=0AHow have people that have used the leaf spring type tai lwheel fitted it to the A/C?=0ADoes anyone have some close up pictures or d rawings I am sure that I have seen some somewhere a while back but cant see m to find them.=0AThanks for any help=0ACarson=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topi c online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222518#22 ======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2009
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Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2009
What would you have to do , change or strengthen while building to make it safer or more aerobatic friendly? John ------Original Message------ From: Michael Perez Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jan 2, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Jim's Aerial
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Jim; Do you have the Tigre on the airplane after all? Sorry I have not made any more progress translating the shop manuals from Spanish for you but the airplane is looking nice and your wingtips turned out very smooth! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
Thanks Oscar. Not knowing much about this plane, I wondered what, if any, stunts may have been tried. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
First hand experience Pieti? You have done these things? Thanks for the rep ly. - ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Aerial
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Oscar, I looked at other engines, but only as a plan "B". The Tigre only needs two more exhaust stacks, the oil pressure line finished, and a couple leads for the magnetos to appear finished. It is already mounted and safety wired in place, has the correct prop and spinner and so forth. Been oiling the cyclinders once in a while and keeping it from freezing up. I appreciate the work you have already done on the magneto manuals. My A&P tech advisor, told me to leave everything that is done as it is and move on, then if I don't like something revisit it, otherwise it may never get done. Think he had a point. Any other engine will cost a lot, need a different prop, motor mounts, cowling and reworking all the W&B adjustments that have already been made. So I plan on going forward with the Tigre. I think it looks great from the front and rear, just from the side it seems a bit long nosed. Will have to find some way to insure it is reasonably safe to fly before I take it up, but there is no immediate danger of it flying very soon. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222604#222604 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim's Aerial
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Others may have no idea what we are talking about.. my project is on; www.westcoastpiet.com under pictures, under Jim D. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222606#222606 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Tail wheel spring fitting
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Carson, I'm off to the airport today, I'll get a photo or two. Cheers Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Saturday, 3 January 2009 8:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel spring fitting Hi all How have people that have used the leaf spring type tailwheel fitted it to the A/C? Does anyone have some close up pictures or drawings I am sure that I have seen some somewhere a while back but cant seem to find them. Thanks for any help Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222518#222518 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Happy New Year
Date: Jan 03, 2009
A very Happy New Year to all you builders and flyers from NX221PT. Hope to see you at Brodhead/Oshkosh this year.--Jim Lagowski ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Pietenpol aerobatics
Date: Jan 03, 2009
If you really want to do safe aerobatics I'd change it to a biplane with a swept upper wing, a 180 hp Lycoming with an inverted fuel and oil system, a symmetrical airfoil and a constant speed prop. Seriously, if you want aerobatic, build something else, like a Pitts Special. I did aerobatics in my J-3 Cub years ago. When I recovered it, I found every rib in the elevators were bent. I haven't done anything other than wingovers in the Pietenpol. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics What would you have to do , change or strengthen while building to make it safer or more aerobatic friendly? John ------Original Message------ From: Michael Perez Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jan 2, 2009 1:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: NX221PT
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Jim; How much does that skullcap spinner add to your top speed? ;o) Very nice airplane!!! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Date: Jan 03, 2009
Call me slow-witted=2C but besides "how the heck did they shoot those in-ai r shots?" one thing that puzzled me was everytime they would prop off a Jen ny=2C the engine would appear to start rotating in the direction opposite t o the prop start. Just an optical illusion=2C I guess. The other interesting thing was that part of it was shot in Texas. The wat er tower in Poth=2C Texas appears in the movie... and Poth is just east of San Antonio. That will be my last Waldo Pepper post for the year=2C I think =3Bo) I bel ieve I popped the DVD into my player right around 8PM on January 1st so I w ill have another bourbon & ginger ale in celebration of being the first vie wing of the new year... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2009
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Oscar, You are correct on the propping. I even "rewound" to see it again. He pulled it the wrong way onto the compression, then it flipped back and started. And they did it more than once throughout the movie Anyone know if this is a goof on the movies part, or an unusual way to start those Jenny engines? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 Call me slow-witted, but besides "how the heck did they shoot those in-air shots?" one thing that puzzled me was everytime they would prop off a Jenny, the engine would appear to start rotating in the direction opposite to the prop start. Just an optical illusion, I guess. The other interesting thing was that part of it was shot in Texas. The water tower in Poth, Texas appears in the movie... and Poth is just east of San Antonio. That will be my last Waldo Pepper post for the year, I think ;o) I believe I popped the DVD into my player right around 8PM on January 1st so I will have another bourbon & ginger ale in celebration of being the first viewing of the new year... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Most of the time those are not Jennies, they are Standards. Waldo's plane is a Hisso powered Standard, and bouncing the prop off of compression is one way to start it, but it does take someone in the cockpit to do it to crank a booster mag in the cockpit. Axle's plane is a Jenny, except when it hits the lake, then it is a Tiger Moth. It is an OX-5 powered Jenny that Waldo props to go after Axle and Mary Beth. I was expecting a BS flag on the 10am Waldo on new year's day, my 4 year old (who has been quoting the movie lines since he was two) wanted to watch it that morning, so I put it on and watched, off and on, through very heavy eyelids! Sorry Oscar! LOL Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt<mailto:waltdak(at)verizon.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 2:50 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 Oscar, You are correct on the propping. I even "rewound" to see it again. He pulled it the wrong way onto the compression, then it flipped back and started. And they did it more than once throughout the movie Anyone know if this is a goof on the movies part, or an unusual way to start those Jenny engines? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com> To: Pietenpol List Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 Call me slow-witted, but besides "how the heck did they shoot those in-air shots?" one thing that puzzled me was everytime they would prop off a Jenny, the engine would appear to start rotating in the direction opposite to the prop start. Just an optical illusion, I guess. The other interesting thing was that part of it was shot in Texas. The water tower in Poth, Texas appears in the movie... and Poth is just east of San Antonio. That will be my last Waldo Pepper post for the year, I think ;o) I believe I popped the DVD into my player right around 8PM on January 1st so I will have another bourbon & ginger ale in celebration of being the first viewing of the new year... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wing tip bows
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Sorry. I'm with Dan. It's enough of a challenge to try and build a good Piet to the plans. When you find yourself "asking lots of questions because you just don't know the answers", one has to ask "Why is someone with so little knowledge of airplane design trying to redesign everything and so willing to take the advice of uncredentialed strangers?" Build one to the plans and then use the experience to decide how you want to redo things in the second one. This stuff is wearing me out. It has to be taking it's toll on others too. This is a late response because I haven't looked at this forum for about 3 weeks. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222784#222784 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Eyebrow baffle question
Am building some eyebrow baffles for my Corvair and have a question for anyone with eyebrow baffles, do you have to remove your baffles to remove your spark plugs? Was thinking of drilling 1 1/4" holes in the outside of the baffles to allow access to the plugs but would have to find some kind of rubber plugs for the holes. Am I over-engineering these things? (something I am constantly guilty of). Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Eyebrow baffle question
I just remove the scews from the top of mine and bend it back'only problem is they are now cracking where I bent them.-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0AFrom: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpo l-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, January 4, 2009 6:33:04 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Eyebrow baffle question=0A=0AAm building some eyebrow baffl es for my Corvair and have a question for anyone with eyebrow baffles, do y ou have to remove your baffles to remove your spark plugs? Was thinking of drilling 1 1/4" holes in the outside of the baffles to allow access to the plugs but would have to find some kind of rubber plugs for the holes. Am I over-engineering these things? (something I am constantly guilty of).=0A=0A ============= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Eyebrow baffle question
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Rick, How difficult is it to remove your eyebrows? You shouldn't have to do it that often. Got any pics? I plan on using eyebrows, too. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eyebrow baffle question Am building some eyebrow baffles for my Corvair and have a question for anyone with eyebrow baffles, do you have to remove your baffles to remove your spark plugs? Was thinking of drilling 1 1/4" holes in the outside of the baffles to allow access to the plugs but would have to find some kind of rubber plugs for the holes. Am I over-engineering these things? (something I am constantly guilty of). Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Eyebrow baffle question
Rick, We used the stock fan shroud and modified it by closing off the fan h ole in the top and cutting the front of it out ans an inlet for cooling air .- Long story short, look at your corvair fan shroud there are holes in i t for access to the spark plugs.- The plug wire-sets from Clarks Corvai r have a plug/ seal molded right on to the plug wire.- It just snaps in t o the hole in the baffeling.- The holes are 1.5 - 2 inch I believe.- Th ey should work for eyebrows as well, and not to many extra parts. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Eyebrow baffle question
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Was thinking of drilling 1 1/4" holes in the outside of the baffles to allow access to the plugs but would have to find some kind of rubber plugs for the holes. Stock Corvair wires come with such plugs and would be the way to go in this situation. We have what we affectionately call "mailboxes" on our test stand engine and yes, we have to unbolt them to get at the plugs. Our wires come in through the back. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Subject: eyebrow baffles
Hi Rick, I cut an opening about an inch and a half or two inches wide the length of the area over the plugs and then made a plate slightly larger than the opening and put some baffling material under it to seal it and then just attach it with a sheet metal screw and tinnerman nut on each end. works great and easy access to the plugs. Randy Bush NX294RB **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2009
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Eyebrow baffle question
I borrowed a friends Cub for a 1/2 hour armed with poster board (oaktag) masking tape, a sharpie, and scizzors. I made a mock-up fairly easy. I have an A-65 though. I learned early on to make them out of dead soft aluminum. I rolled welding rod into the leading edge, which added a nice touch. It's a nice technique to learn, and have used it on the cowling all around the cylinder openings. No, I don't have to remove them to get the plugs out. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 6:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eyebrow baffle question Am building some eyebrow baffles for my Corvair and have a question for anyone with eyebrow baffles, do you have to remove your baffles to remove your spark plugs? Was thinking of drilling 1 1/4" holes in the outside of the baffles to allow access to the plugs but would have to find some kind of rubber plugs for the holes. Am I over-engineering these things? (something I am constantly guilty of). Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 04, 2009
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: speaking of spark plugs (well I was anyway)
Just a thought, Anyone flying/building with a Continental A-65 up to (I guess) an O-200, and use 18mm plugs. Being an experimental, you can use whatever plugs you want. My Mentor gave me the heads up on this. Go here,,, http://www.magnetoparts.com/index.html And new champion plugs are around $3.00 instead of $20.00 plus. Assuming you don't have the fancy noise supperssing wires. They even carry the snazzy wire. I've got over 100 hours with out a burp. Only other thing I remember, is if using Eisemann mag,,,.018" gap walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: speaking of spark plugs (well I was anyway)
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Great Plains Aircraft Supply (http://www.greatplainsas.com ) has a set of 4 spark plug adapters that allows you to use your shielded ignition wires with standard automotive plugs. Like Walt says, they are then a fraction of the price compared to aviation plugs. One thing to be careful of is to make sure the plugs have the same reach (length of threaded part) as your aviation plugs. The other thing is, I know of no cross-reference to allow you to select an appropriate automotive plug if you're running a Continental. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jan 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
Van White from Shallowater, Texas does some pretty radical stuff in a clipped (and strenghtened) wing cub with 180HP. He is over 80 and last year I know that he did aerobatics about every 2 or 3 days. For years he did variations of the drunk getting in the plane or the little old lady who wins a ride and takes off without the instructor at regional airshows. It started with pretty radical stuff, pinning a wing on the ground and then rotating around it and wobbling into the air. Van said that at one point he was grounded by the FAA more than any pilot in the US. The FAA would approve his act, but someone would not "get the memo" and would ground him after doing his act. The next week they would give it back. We were talking about learning to fly and he told me that his dad had a Piet in the late 1930s. They flew somewhere and then on the trip pack it was all they could do to clear the telephone poles (this is NW of Lubbock, TX MSL 3000 Plus any density altitude as the day heats up.) His dad landed in a field and told him to get out and find a way home. Van was about 12 and had no idea where he was. So he just started walking until he met someone who took him to the nearest town and he hitchhiked home. Van later bought an Aeronca C2 "flying bathtub" to learn to fly in. But his instructor got out after about 3 hours and said it was too underpowered and dangerous to fly with two in the plane. So Van taught himself to fly in the thing. Sorry but the linkage of Piper cub aerobatics and Piet brought this memory back. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009 16:43 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics > > If you really want to do safe aerobatics I'd change it to a biplane with a > swept upper wing, a 180 hp Lycoming with an inverted fuel and oil system, a > symmetrical airfoil and a constant speed prop. > > Seriously, if you want aerobatic, build something else, like a Pitts > Special. I did aerobatics in my J-3 Cub years ago. When I recovered it, I > found every rib in the elevators were bent. I haven't done anything other > than wingovers in the Pietenpol. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > amsafetyc(at)aol.com > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:03 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics > > > What would you have to do , change or strengthen while building to make it > safer or more aerobatic friendly? > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: Michael Perez > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Jan 2, 2009 1:58 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
Date: Jan 05, 2009
Great story! Thanks for sharing it. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:08 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics > > > Van White from Shallowater, Texas does some pretty radical stuff in a > clipped (and strenghtened) wing cub with 180HP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
Date: Jan 05, 2009
For the GWP fanatics out there (and we know you're there), attached is a recent photo of that magical Jenny that turns into a Tiger Moth just before crashing into the pond. The Tiger Moth wreck was purchased and rebuilt by a man in Guelph, Ontario, and now belongs to the Tiger Boys, who are also based in Guelph. Their open house every September is worth a visit. Here's a link to their website: http://www.tigerboys.com/ This plane is still flying - this photo was taken in September 2008. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 4:49 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 Axle's plane is a Jenny, except when it hits the lake, then it is a Tiger Moth. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: More on wings and airfoils
From: "LarryB55" <morrisonintexas(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 05, 2009
After reading archived posts about Riblett's 612 and 613.5, I really got interested in using one of those profiles for my future Piet. Since I also have Grega plans, I decided to get them out tonight and compare the two rib drawings. I laid one right on top of the other. The structures are different, but I declare, I can't see any difference in the two profiles. I know the GN-1 leading edge is supposed to be more rounded, but if it is, it's only in the first two inches of the LE (where the Piet drawing doesn't really show the nose). Just a point of interest I thought I'd share. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223078#223078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Eyebrow baffle question
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 05, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: eyebrow baffles
Great idea Randy. Do you have a picture of that? So you run your plug wires in from the inside? Thanks Rick On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 5:22 PM, wrote: > Hi Rick, > I cut an opening about an inch and a half or two inches wide the length > of the area over the plugs and then made a plate slightly larger than > the opening and put some baffling material under it to seal it and then just > attach it with a sheet metal screw and tinnerman nut on each end. works > great and easy access to the plugs. > > Randy Bush > > NX294RB > > > ------------------------------ > New year...new news. Be the fom00000026">headlines. > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 05, 2009
Subject: baffles
Hey Rick, yes I ran the plug wires from the inside through a hole with a grommet .I can not find a good close up picture but if you look closely at this one you can see the plug wires and the plate I was talking about. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: baffles
nice workmanship;can't wait to see the finished product.=0A=0A=0Ado not arc hive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "RBush96589@aol .com" =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monda y, January 5, 2009 11:39:38 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: baffles=0A=0AHey Rick,=0A-- yes I ran the plug wires from the inside through a hole with a grommet .I can not find a good close up picture but if you look closely at this one you can see the plug wires and the plate I was talking about. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0ANew year...new news . Be taolcom00000026">headlines. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: baffles
Yes if you keep blowing the picture up you can see it.I like how you did yo ur eyebrows;very simple,not complicated.I think when mine get broken to the point where I need to replace and that won't be long,I'm going to do mine the same way you did yours.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: "RBush96589(at)aol.com" <RBush96589(at)aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@mat ronics.com=0ASent: Monday, January 5, 2009 11:39:38 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol -List: baffles=0A=0AHey Rick,=0A-- yes I ran the plug wires from the in side through a hole with a grommet .I can not find a good close up picture but if you look closely at this one you can see the plug wires and the plat e I was talking about.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0ANew year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2009
Subject: finished product
Harvey , here is a picture of the finished product. I would send more but out here in the country i am still on dial up and it takes forever to send a picture. do not archive Randy Bush **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 06, 2009
Subject: Re: finished product
Wow, beautiful Randy! Love it! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair College # 13
From: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com>
Date: Jan 06, 2009
Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call during a break. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223181#223181 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair College # 13
Just out of curiosity how many of us Piet builders are attending corvair college #13? Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call during a break. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223181#223181 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Corvair College # 13
Date: Jan 06, 2009
I'm ONE! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College # 13 Just out of curiosity how many of us Piet builders are attending corvair college #13? Brady wrote: Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair College # 13
Date: Jan 06, 2009
Two from Independence Or. area. Ernie Moren Independence Or. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Groah To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair College # 13 Just out of curiosity how many of us Piet builders are attending corvair college #13? Brady wrote: Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 06, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair College # 13
I will be coming from Colorado. Rick On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Michael Groah wrote: > Just out of curiosity how many of us Piet builders are attending corvair > college #13? > > *Brady * wrote: > > > Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! > > For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down > commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" > your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. > > There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) > I only say that because someone asked. :) > > you must however bring it to me before hand :) > > You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 > Or see my website for an address > > I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I > will return your call > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair College # 13
I'm coming to CC13 and am a Piet builder too. Jim On Jan 6, 2009, dskogrover(at)yahoo.com wrote: Just out of curiosity how many of us Piet builders are attending corvair college #13? Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair College # 13
That sounds like about six Piet builders counting myself. That will be the most Pietenpol people I've been around at one time. Make sure to bring pictures of your Pietenpol projects too. It will be great to share with each other about our planes as well as learn more about the corvair. I'm really looking forward to it. Mike Groah Tulare California I'm coming to CC13 and am a Piet builder too. Jim On Jan 6, 2009, dskogrover(at)yahoo.com wrote: Just out of curiosity how many of us Piet builders are attending corvair college #13? Brady Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Tachometer for Corvairs
Date: Jan 07, 2009
I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? Thanks Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Tachometer for Corvairs
Date: Jan 08, 2009
Barry, This is the one I used. Stewart Warner tacho 82636 with sender 82646. Check out http://www.stewartwarner.com/Catalog/2dlx1.html. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2009 7:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? Thanks Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 07, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tachometer for Corvairs
Hey Barry I was originally going to use the Stuart Warner that WW recommends then I learned about the Stratomaster E1 EMS and decided to go digital (would end up being cheaper than six steam engine guages) BUT it doesn't appear that there is any easy way to hook up the tach input (without going directly to the coils which WW says is a no no). They offer a powered tooth counting sensor but it won't work with the WW starter wheel I have and the tooth counter that works with the Stuart Warner tach is not powered (only 2 lead) and will not work with the EMS. So unless someone at Corvair College 13 has some good ideas I will probably just go with the proven Stewart Warner solution. Rick On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Barry Davis wrote: > I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't > really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? > Thanks > Barry > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Tachometer for Corvairs
Date: Jan 07, 2009
Barry is correct. From William Wynne's website: Subj: Tachometer Date: 3/4/05 What was the name & type of tach that counted flywheel teeth? Tim, Manual # 6113, East Central Ohio Reply from WW: We use a Stewart Warner tach. The one we have installed in our 601 is a 0-3,500rpm unit, which has a full sweep, allowing you to clearly see a 25rpm difference. Because it works by counting flywheel teeth, it is entirely divorced from the ignition system. The Stewart Warner part no. is 82636. If you look at our 601 Web Page, you'll see the tooth counter attached to the front alternator bracket. I've used this tach in many Corvair powered airplanes over the years. I like it because it has very smooth operation, and it is extremely accurate when checked against our digital optical tachometer. Oscar Zuniga Non-Corvair Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tachometer for Corvairs
Date: Jan 08, 2009
From: dog67(at)aol.com
Hey Rick - I just moved to parker, CO - Just North of you.? Am working on a corvair engine for a Piet.? How can I get hold of you to pick your brain? :) Thanks Jon Apfelbaum 303-862-8604 -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 8:32 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs Hey Barry I was originally going to use the Stuart Warner that WW recommends then I learned about the Stratomaster E1 EMS and decided to go digital (would end up being cheaper than six steam engine guages) BUT it doesn't appear that there is any easy way to hook up the tach input (without going directly to the coils which WW says is a no no). They offer a powered tooth counting sensor but it won't work with the WW starter wheel I have and the tooth counter that works with the Stuart Warner tach is not powered (only 2 lead) and will not work with the EMS. So unless someone at Corvair College 13 has some good ideas I will probably just go with the proven Stewart Warner solution. Rick On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Barry Davis wrote: I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? Thanks Barry -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Eyebrow baffle question
Date: Jan 08, 2009
Rick=3B I'm late commenting on the spark plug access for your eyebrow baffles but I think you were on the right track as far as punching holes in the baffles to give you access to the plugs. However=2C instead of rubber plugs=2C consider using some of those snap-in hole covers that are used for knockouts in electrical boxes or the ones use d to cap unused punchings in stainless steel sinks. In your plumbing section at the hardware store. You could reach inside your baffle and pop out the cap=2C then inse rt your spark plug socket and off you go. Just a thought. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Eyebrow baffle question
Thanks for the idea Oscar. I was looking through the online McMaster Carr catalog for a rubber bushing kind of things without a hole in the middle and struck out but I did notice just the kind of thing you mentioned, round metal caps of different sizes with springy legs like you put in an empty sink hole. They even come chrome plated. Now that may look cool up against my flat black eyebrows. Rick On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:46 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Rick; > > I'm late commenting on the spark plug access for your eyebrow baffles but I > think > you were on the right track as far as punching holes in the baffles to give > you access > to the plugs. However, instead of rubber plugs, consider using some of > those snap-in > hole covers that are used for knockouts in electrical boxes or the ones > used to cap > unused punchings in stainless steel sinks. In your plumbing section at the > hardware > store. You could reach inside your baffle and pop out the cap, then insert > your > spark plug socket and off you go. > > Just a thought. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2009
Subject: crankshaft
Hi John, thanks for the compliments. I bought my crankshaft from William. This was just after he started recommending nitriding them and he already had my core so he took care of all that. I don't know if he still offers that option or not and I cannot remember exactly what I paid for the whole set up. Randy Bush **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Randy B's airplane
Date: Jan 08, 2009
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Thanks for sharing your photo with us Randy and just curious if you might be able to make the gathering of Pietenpols at OSH for the 80th Anniversary after Bhead ? The more the more better-er. Doc will be publishing some info about the gathering in the next paper newsletter. Bill Rewey sent me and several others letters outlining the plans that Doc and Bill have tentatively formed with EAA and as they were in 1998, EAA is all about it. Mike C. PS..of course like everyone else we don't get free avgas, camping, or food:) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Randy B's airplane
Date: Jan 08, 2009
what is Doc Moser's email address? I have not received a news letter in quite some time, and I wonder if I am still active on the list. Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC] To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Randy B's airplane Thanks for sharing your photo with us Randy and just curious if you might be able to make the gathering of Pietenpols at OSH for the 80th Anniversary after Bhead ? The more the more better-er. Doc will be publishing some info about the gathering in the next paper newsletter. Bill Rewey sent me and several others letters outlining the plans that Doc and Bill have tentatively formed with EAA and as they were in 1998, EAA is all about it. Mike C. PS..of course like everyone else we don't get free avgas, camping, or food:) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 08, 2009
Subject: brodhead and oshkosh
Hi Mike, Yes I would love to make the trip on up to Oshkosh if they are planning a group flight up there .I talked to Doc last year and he said that there might be something in the works but I had not heard any body say any thing definite . so count me in if its a go. and thanks Walt. Randy Bush NX294RB **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2009
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Randy B's airplane
Here's the contact info for the BPA (and thusly Doc) from the latest newsletter: Brodhead Pietenpol Association P.O. Box 3501 Oshkosh, WI 54901 Email: bpan(at)tds.net Fax: 920-886-3575 Web: www.pietenpols.org Of general interest to all, there is also a notice in the issue that due to some organizational changes with the Independent-Register in Brodhead, ALL correspondence should be addressed to BPA at the Oshkosh address; this includes any payments. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote: > what is Doc Moser's email address? I have not received a news letter in > quite some time, and I wonder if I am still active on the list. Gardiner > Mason > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2009
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Piet Ultralight?
I'm thinking this won't actually turn out to be an ultralight? Just spotted this on eBay, item # 120359458778 Tim in Bovey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 08, 2009
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Piet Ultralight?
Well, it may have started life as an ultralight.... http://www.ragwing.net/fleet/RW01Ultra-Piet.html It is based on an "Ultralight replica of the Pietenpol Air Camper". It's a one-seater, so you would think it would technically be an ultralight replica of a Sky Scout, but I digress. The site of the original designer says that it can use a 1/2 VW. The ebay listing for this particular project based on that design states that it has been scaled up 10%. In addition (and I'm no expert on VW's) it appears to have a full VW engine. I would imagine those two factors would make it a little more difficult to complete the project and have it come in at or below 254 lbs, if you were to attempt to register it as an ultralight. Ryan On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Tim Verthein wrote: > minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com> > > I'm thinking this won't actually turn out to be an ultralight? > Just spotted this on eBay, item # 120359458778 > > Tim in Bovey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Corvair College #13
Date: Jan 09, 2009
Hey Gang! CC13 is right around the corner, literally a week away. It will be hosted by William Wynne, the Corvair Authority www.FlyCorvair.com and First Light Aviation aka FLAG, (located adjacent to Livermore airport- LVK, Livermore CA. www.flaglvk.com ) Sorry guys, Grace Ellen is staying home this time. :( But Cory Emberson (KITPLANES babe) will be milling about, maybe even getting greasy. And for equal time and so that I'm not labeled as being TOO sexist, KITPLANES hunk Rick Lindstrom will be there to entertain the ladies. Here's a link to the event: http://web.mac.com/flaglvk/iWeb/FLAG/ccol.html Even with the lack of driving instructions on the website (Rick!) getting to and around the commercial complex shouldn't be too difficult. I'm sure there will be signs posted so no one gets lost. I hope their address is in my TomTom database as the entire crew from CONTACT! Magazine (well... me and John Moyle) are making final preparations to be in full attendance. We'll be bringing our engine test stand and making it available for anyone to use. The engine that's on it now, suffered a catastrophic failure of the accessory end of the engine; the ring gear is tracking almost 2" out of line and it's not bent. So that engine will come off and be busted down to find out what happened. During a past tandem-wing gathering we ran some vibration studies with this engine and it showed some anomalous readings which COULD be an indication of a failing crank. You can see the telemetry wires in this photo: www.ContactmMagazine.com/Fly-Ins/LVK_2005/Vibration-Study.jpg Hopefully we can learn something from it. Once the engine is removed, it's entirely possible to install 1-3 different engines on it and be run up during the weekend, if we all pull together. This should be a KILLER event. It's very rare to have a Corvair College west of the Rockies (only three to date) so if you are even remotely interested in Corvair engines, or are just hungry- there will be tons of food available... but you have to pre-register to partake: www.tinyurl.com/CC13-Registration Be there or be square! Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Tachometer for Corvairs
Date: Jan 09, 2009
Peter Did you have to choose a certain ratio? Where does the sensor mount? Thanks Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W Johnson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs Barry, This is the one I used. Stewart Warner tacho 82636 with sender 82646. Check out http://www.stewartwarner.com/Catalog/2dlx1.html. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2009 7:39 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? Thanks Barry http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: matt and mark berger
Date: Jan 09, 2009
Hey guys! I'm wanting to contact Matt and Mark Berger about their plane. Does anyone have an email or phone number for them? Hope you're all well! NX799B is chugging along. Engine mounted, hooking up instruments and getting ready to run fuel lines. What is everyone's thoughts on using flexible lines to the tank as William Wynn suggests so that they won't yank off as easily as rigid lines in the event the center section displaces in a wreck like his. Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Tachometer for Corvairs
Date: Jan 10, 2009
Barry, I don't think I mentioned any ratios when I ordered the sender. This picture http://www.cpc-world.com/new_card_images/images/IMG_0522_JPG.jpg shows how it is mounted next to the starter motor. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2009 7:05 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs Peter Did you have to choose a certain ratio? Where does the sensor mount? Thanks Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter W <mailto:vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> Johnson Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs Barry, This is the one I used. Stewart Warner tacho 82636 with sender 82646. Check out http://www.stewartwarner.com/Catalog/2dlx1.html. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Davis Sent: Thursday, 8 January 2009 7:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? Thanks Barry http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roy Brooks <n900ml(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Chuck Gantzer
Date: Jan 09, 2009
Has Chuck dropped off the face of the earth? I haven't seen any posts from him for a long time and I've tried to contact him twice through direct e-ma il but to no avail. Last I heard=2C he bought land at a community grass str ip and was building a highly efficient home/hanger. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_0 12009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: matt and mark berger
Date: Jan 09, 2009
Hi Douwe I made the change to flex lines after Will told me of his experience. Anything I can do to not get splashed with gas I will do. Mine isn't flax all the way, but there are flex point to keep from lines breaking. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: matt and mark berger > > > Hey guys! > > I'm wanting to contact Matt and Mark Berger about their plane. Does > anyone > have an email or phone number for them? > > Hope you're all well! NX799B is chugging along. Engine mounted, hooking > up > instruments and getting ready to run fuel lines. > > What is everyone's thoughts on using flexible lines to the tank as William > Wynn suggests so that they won't yank off as easily as rigid lines in the > event the center section displaces in a wreck like his. > > Thanks, > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Corvair College 13 surplus parts
Date: Jan 09, 2009
Going to CC#13? Not planning to bring or otherwise work on your engine during the event? Have a nice cache of WW parts, parts from Clarks or Corvair Underground, or some nice clean stock Corvair parts- nitrided crank, reworked cylinder heads, etc? Please consider bringing them with you. Someone working on completing their engine may need to borrow yours to complete their project. Stuff happens. As an example, during CC#5, someone broke a ring while installing it. I had a set reserved for myself that I wasn't using. I loaned them my ring and they mailed me a replacement when they got home and ordered one from Clarks. Thanks! Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: flex fuel lines and filters
Date: Jan 10, 2009
Dick, Where in the system did you put flex lines? Another question for all of you. I have seen, and really like the idea of a small transparant inline filter for each line coming out of the tank. I've seen them on the cabanes so you can easily keep track of things and replace them. I've been told though that this is frowned upon because they present more places to clog the system. This doesn't make sense to me, as if they're going to clog, they'll clog the carb screen. Also, I have three outlets from my tank, so there is plenty of redundancy even if one clogs before I can notice and replace it. I've just heard and seen so much junk in gas systems I really like a lot of filters. input please. Thanks Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Old Timers advise
Hello group, just thinking of an old timer's comment, I heard while looking at a fellows homebuilt project years ago.- The guy had a tendency to ove rbuild, or beef things up here and there in fear of the event of a crash. - "Your supposed to build them Airworthy, Not Crashworthy".- That advis e is good and-sound I think.- Yes we all need to think of safety,- bu t the Idea was to build so that we the pilot, or occupants don't get killed ,- but don't worry what happens to the airplane,- don't add 100, 200-50 0 lbs trying to prevent something from bending or breaking in a crash.- I f it does break build another one and keep it light.- This isn't aimed at anyone on the list, just a random quote I rememberd from a wise old man. - Happy building and flying, - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 10, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tachometer for Corvairs
Can't do it this Sunday night Jon and I will be at Corvair College next weekend, why don't we try for the weekend of the 24th and 25th? Rick On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 7:33 AM, wrote: > Hey Rick - > I just moved to parker, CO - Just North of you. Am working on a corvair > engine for a Piet. How can I get hold of you to pick your brain? :) > Thanks > Jon Apfelbaum > 303-862-8604 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 8:32 pm > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tachometer for Corvairs > > Hey Barry > > I was originally going to use the Stuart Warner that WW recommends then I > learned about the Stratomaster E1 EMS and decided to go digital (would end > up being cheaper than six steam engine guages) BUT it doesn't appear that > there is any easy way to hook up the tach input (without going directly to > the coils which WW says is a no no). They offer a powered tooth counting > sensor but it won't work with the WW starter wheel I have and the tooth > counter that works with the Stuart Warner tach is not powered (only 2 lead) > and will not work with the EMS. > > So unless someone at Corvair College 13 has some good ideas I will probably > just go with the proven Stewart Warner solution. > > Rick > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Barry Davis wrote: > >> I have been looking around for a tach for a corvair engine. I don't >> really want to reinvent the wheel, so... What is everyone using? >> Thanks >> Barry >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * > > * > > * > > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 10, 2009
Subject: Attach and Detach
Pieters, young and old, Happy New Year Am thinking along the lines of an attachable/detachable pod, light spruce frame fabric covered for my T-65 Aeronca directly under cabin for supplies, clothes, food etc for an extended period. Anyone familiar with the regulations concerning this type alteration? I would appreciate your inpute on the subject Corky Recently out of hibernation **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Attach and Detach
Date: Jan 11, 2009
Corky; it's my opinion that (unfortunately), since your Aeronca is a certified aircraft, there would have to be an STC for such an auxiliary pod installation. That means testing, approvals, paperwork, etc. Anybody have a more favorable opinion? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Southern Comfort" San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2009
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Attach and Detach
I would think that you are correct, Oscar. According to what I see in FAR Part 43 Appdx A, I think that such a mod could arguably be defined as a major alteration, and as such needs "approval". You would get approval either buy purchasing an STC for a "belly pod" installation on an Aeronca, or you would have to get a 337 field approval (sort of a one time STC). Looking through the list of 337s and STCs at aeronca.com does not show anything for any sort of a baggage pod. While that list may not be completely comprehensive, for the sake of argument let's assume that it is correct. Without any sort of "approved data", such as either an STC or someone else's previously approved 337, it can be difficult to satisfy the Feds when trying to get such a change approved. If one was set on making such a mod, I might call or visit the guys at the local FSDO and feel them out about it first, as they are the ones that will ultimately have to sign off on it. Ryan On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Corky; it's my opinion that (unfortunately), since your Aeronca is a > certified aircraft, there would have to be an STC for such an auxiliary pod > installation. That means testing, approvals, paperwork, etc. > > Anybody have a more favorable opinion? > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC "Southern Comfort" > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Attach and Detach
Date: Jan 11, 2009
One other possibility: since the Defender operated with different types of external loads in its military configuration, might there not be something similar to what you have in mind, that may already have a known attachment, size, weight, etc.-? Probably not exactly what you wanted, but may be of some use. Since a pod would affect the flying characteristics, I would think that a regime of analysis and testing would otherwise be required to obtain a 337 or other field approval. In this day and age, that kind of thing is getting harder and harder to do. In years gone by, you could work with your field or regional FAA person and get a 337, especially in places like Alaska and Texas where aircraft are/were used extensively in pipeline, ag, and ranch work and necessity was the mother of invention. But no more, since lawyers have multiplied and populated the earth. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC, "Corky's Blues" San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 11, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon
It's great to be home again after a holiday visit with two of our children. I was able to get in a nice early evening flight in the Piet on Thursday a nd have been glowing ever since. I never stop marvelling at the honest and dependable little airplane that has been such a fulfilling part of my life. - While unpacking a box recently, I came across a few little quotes that I ha d taped up on my basement wall during the construction of my Air Camper. Th ese were the philosophy that guided me during the years of building in the days before the help (?) of the internet. - 1. Simplificate and add lightness. Gen. Billy Mitchell 2. It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to a dd, but when there is nothing more to delete. Antoine de Saint-Exupery 3. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls a nd looks like work. Thomas Edison And finally, the HUGE ONE: 4. Strive for design simplicity, you never have to fix anything you leave o ut. Bill Lear - I also note that in the recent BPA newsletter that the man-of-action and Jo hnny-on-the-spot intrepid Piet flier, -Michael Cuy is quoted as rememberi ng the 1998 anniversary fly-in to OSH. It must have been lonely for him sin ce the rest of the flight didn't show up for about 12 months. Mike was alwa ys one to blaze the trail for the rest of us. (giggle, giggle). - Everybody plan on being in south-central Wisconsin the end of July this yea r. If you are still building......build faster!!! (This means you, Markle) - Larry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 11, 2009
Subject: Re: Attach and Detach
In a message dated 1/11/2009 1:24:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes: But no more, since lawyers have multiplied and populated the earth. Not where this trip is intended **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: I know what a wing looks like
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Been Building like krazy with not much to show for it other than 4 really long pieces of wood. After jigging and rejiging and arranging my shop I finally got a chance to see those 14 foot 5 inch pieces in the jig. I was beyond help at point and began to measure and square before I knew it I had 14 ribs threaded on to the spars measured marked and ready for fastening. Not to rush the process I refrained in consideration to return and glue another day. I sure do like the way that looks. With the tail feathers, fuse and a wing laid out and jiged, it looks like I almost got enough parts to build an aeroplane. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: flex fuel lines and filters
Date: Jan 11, 2009
Hi again Douwe I went out to check on the Piets today as it has been way to cold to fly around here. I took a pic that I attached. Hopefully you can pick up enough detail. Just a couple of thoughts to pass along. On fuel filters, my inspector made me remove the clear one that I had inline. He said any filters must have a bypass incase they clog. The one I had was from Aircraft Spruce and didn't have bypass. If you check your gascolator on a regular basis, we all do that right, you shouldn't need the filter. Next, installing this flex point may help if you crash and the wing folds forward, however if you are upside down and have vented fuel caps, the gas will still be leaking, so stay right side up. Hopefully you can see in the pic that I have shut offs for both tanks at the source in the wing. The wells at the pickup point allow for a low point and the location for the fuel guages. My flex line goes from mid cabane to the 2 gal. header tank, behind the firewall. At that point there is also a shutoff valve. I hope this helps Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:51 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flex fuel lines and filters > > > Dick, > > Where in the system did you put flex lines? > > Another question for all of you. I have seen, and really like the idea of > a > small transparant inline filter for each line coming out of the tank. > I've > seen them on the cabanes so you can easily keep track of things and > replace > them. I've been told though that this is frowned upon because they > present > more places to clog the system. This doesn't make sense to me, as if > they're going to clog, they'll clog the carb screen. Also, I have three > outlets from my tank, so there is plenty of redundancy even if one clogs > before I can notice and replace it. I've just heard and seen so much junk > in gas systems I really like a lot of filters. > > input please. > > Thanks > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Attach and Detach
Date: Jan 11, 2009
Gee Corky, I didn't know you were coming to Canada. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Attach and Detach But no more, since lawyers have multiplied and populated the earth. Not where this trip is intended ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Attach and Detach
Date: Jan 12, 2009
I think I'd go with wing pods if they can be made large enough to stow what you're trying to stow. Attach to the lift strut attach points on the wings. Much easier to get to and to mount/dismount than having to crawl under the airplane=2C plus if you think about it=2C tiedown points are typically at that same spot so it's a good place structurally and doesn't affect C of G. I'll bet the wartime L-birds hung things off the wings like that=3B maybe even as much as 30-50 lbs. but I'm just guessing.Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Pelican's Pouch" San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 12, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Aeronca baggage pod
Corky- - interestingly, we have a guy here at our airport that was an engineer for A merican Champion (or whoever it is that now makes Citabrias, etc) and one o f his BIG projects was to design and get approval for a baggage pod. - The short story is that there was so much beaurocratic work to do including wind tunnel testing and repetitive material analysis, that the company fin ally abandoned the project as being far too expensive in time and money to be justified. The end of another good idea trampled by red tape and layers of government good intentions. - So, make your own pod, slap an "experimental" sign on the side, pack up-a nd go fly!! - Larry=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: gascolator mounting
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Hi all, Can one mount the gascolator by simply attaching it to some sort of male threaded bulkhead fitting and that that support it or does it need one of those sheet metal brackets as well? I see ACS has something with big flange which you drill and mount on the firewall, which would be perfect, but not sure if this is approved. Bingeles shows a bracket in is books. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: gascolator mounting
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Douwe=3B I used one of those bulkhead fittings to mount the gascolator on 41CC when I rebuilt the firewall and it works great. A couple of comments thoug h: 1. Be sure you locate the gascolator so that no part of it protrudes below the bottom edge of the firewall. In a belly-scraper=2C you don't want the gascolator to get peeled off and start leaking gas. 2. The installation instructions with the bulkhead fitting say to install a doubler on the firewall. Initially I didn't think it would be necessary wi th the new stainless firewall that I have=2C but it is definitely needed in or der to keep everything rigid. Don't scrimp on size or gauge of the doubler. I th ink I used an aluminum disk and riveted it to the backside of the firewall. 3. Even with the doubler=2C my gascolator still had some flex to it so I ma de a brace for the bottom of it by bending up some heavy aluminum wire into a V-shaped brace or stay that attaches to the lower edge of the firewall at two points. A picture would be best but I don't have one of exactly that. However=2C I have some that may be visible and can send those directly to y ou unless there are others who may be interested. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: gascolator mounting
Date: Jan 12, 2009
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I made a simple bracket for my gascolator. Easier to remove and reinstall than trying to unscrew something from the back side of the firewall. Here's a picture: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting Douwe; I used one of those bulkhead fittings to mount the gascolator on 41CC when I rebuilt the firewall and it works great. A couple of comments though: 1. Be sure you locate the gascolator so that no part of it protrudes below the bottom edge of the firewall. In a belly-scraper, you don't want the gascolator to get peeled off and start leaking gas. 2. The installation instructions with the bulkhead fitting say to install a doubler on the firewall. Initially I didn't think it would be necessary with the new stainless firewall that I have, but it is definitely needed in order to keep everything rigid. Don't scrimp on size or gauge of the doubler. I think I used an aluminum disk and riveted it to the backside of the firewall. 3. Even with the doubler, my gascolator still had some flex to it so I made a brace for the bottom of it by bending up some heavy aluminum wire into a V-shaped brace or stay that attaches to the lower edge of the firewall at two points. A picture would be best but I don't have one of exactly that. However, I have some that may be visible and can send those directly to you unless there are others who may be interested. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Subject: Wing construction
The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: gascolator mounting
Date: Jan 12, 2009
I went ahead and put up some gascolator photos on a little website=2C here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/gascolator.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing construction
Date: Jan 12, 2009
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Make them mirror images , John. The ailerons should be out near the tips. Sorry - couldn't resist, but really they are mirror images. Jack Philips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John _____ A Good Credit Score is 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc 668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: gascolator mounting
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Jack=2C you're absolutely right about the bulkhead fitting... there is no way to remove the gascolator without literally spinning it off of the fitting and there has to be clear space on the firewall all around it to allow that. A bracket is much easier to deal with as far as removal of the gascolator. However=2C what I liked about it was that it really cleaned up and simplified the fuel piping. One less hose=2C a couple fewer fittings. So... just like at the cafeteria=2C you pick what you like and put it on your plate to make your own Happy Meal!Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon
Date: Jan 12, 2009
What a coincidence! I ALSO have a quote on my shop wall: "Larry ain't lettin' up, so....BUILD FASTER!!!" :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Williams To: Pietlist Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon It's great to be home again after a holiday visit with two of our children. I was able to get in a nice early evening flight in the Piet on Thursday and have been glowing ever since. I never stop marvelling at the honest and dependable little airplane that has been such a fulfilling part of my life. While unpacking a box recently, I came across a few little quotes that I had taped up on my basement wall during the construction of my Air Camper. These were the philosophy that guided me during the years of building in the days before the help (?) of the internet. 1. Simplificate and add lightness. Gen. Billy Mitchell 2. It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to delete. Antoine de Saint-Exupery 3. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison And finally, the HUGE ONE: 4. Strive for design simplicity, you never have to fix anything you leave out. Bill Lear I also note that in the recent BPA newsletter that the man-of-action and Johnny-on-the-spot intrepid Piet flier, Michael Cuy is quoted as remembering the 1998 anniversary fly-in to OSH. It must have been lonely for him since the rest of the flight didn't show up for about 12 months. Mike was always one to blaze the trail for the rest of us. (giggle, giggle). Everybody plan on being in south-central Wisconsin the end of July this year. If you are still building......build faster!!! (This means you, Markle) Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2009
From: Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: flex fuel lines and filters
however if you are upside down and have vented fuel caps, the gas will still be leaking, so stay right side up. Hi, if you have a vent pipe that runs from the top of the tank to vent below it will not leak in the event you become inverted. Regards Mike T. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Wing construction
Date: Jan 12, 2009
John Don't take the idea of building 2 right wings too lightly, it's been done before, not by me. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Make them mirror images , John. The ailerons should be out near the tips. Sorry - couldn't resist, but really they are mirror images. Jack Philips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:19 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- A Good Credit Score is 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc =668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Tanks
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Don't really know why but in addition to old airplanes I also have other strange interests. One of them is VW Beetles. I'm an all stock guy. The custom guys do all kinds of things with their Bugs, including custom fuel tanks. I thought maybe their might be some interest in this website. They custom make aluminum fuel tanks. http://www.aluminumgastanks.net/ For those around the Ohio area I know of a fantastic racecar fab shop that can do a great job on the welding if you take one to them that is already fabbed up. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224374#224374 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Graham Hansen" <ghans@cable-lynx.net>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Larry Williams and group, I'm not saying that the saying "Simplificate and add lightness." did not originate with General Billy MItchell, but I do have an excellent book titled The Speed Seekers by Thomas G. Foxworth, ISBN 0-385-06050-5, and it attributes a similar quotation to William B. Stout who fathered the Ford Tri-Motor transport. Beneath a photograph of Stout on page 83, it says his lifelong doctrine was "simplicate and add lightness." I hope you don't think of this as "nit picking" because I only wish to reveal what I have found in Foxworth's well-researched book about the development of racing airplanes and aero engines, primarily in the 1920's (when our favorite airplane was designed---although the Pietenpol isn't by any stretch of the imagination a racing airplane!). If anyone can find this book in the local library, I hereby endorse it as a really good read. Cheers, Graham Hansen (My Pietenpol CF-AUN is snowed-in here at Camrose, Alberta, Canada. Maybe it's time to install the skis.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing construction
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 13, 2009
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From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wing construction
Date: Jan 12, 2009
John, You have two spars, 2 left and 2 right. Both spars have a butt rib that starts closest to the fuselage. Label each one #1L and #1R. As you move outboard on each wing, label the ribs #2L, #3L, #4L, etc: #2R, #3R, #4R, etc. When you are done you will have two wings, mirror images of each other and identical in all other ways. Hope this helps=85. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down=85) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Dick What do I need to do to make sure that doesn't happen. This has me really concerned. I am able to conceptualize the idea of it being 2 identical halves of the same structure, however I am concerned that its just not that simple. Which is where the difficulty lies in my ability to visualize connecting the 2 wings to the center section and have them facing the same direction. is it that simple or what am I missing. All I really need is someone to tell me they are 2 identical structures. Thanks John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _____ From: "Dick N." Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:25:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction John Don't take the idea of building 2 right wings too lightly, it's been done before, not by me. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Make them mirror images , John. The ailerons should be out near the tips. Sorry ' couldn=92t resist, but really they are mirror images. Jack Philips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John _____ A Good Credit Score is 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc =6680 72%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Web http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =B7~=89=B2,=03g'=D3=D3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Subject: Piet 'Bumper Stickers'
Just toying with ideas on patches and thought I'd bounce the idea of a bump er sticker off the list... What do you think of this kind of 'international' look? [cid:image001.png(at)01C974FE.2FC6C240] Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet 'Bumper Stickers'
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Neat Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:39:02 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet 'Bumper Stickers' Just toying with ideas on patches and thought I'd bounce the idea of a bumper sticker off the list... What do you think of this kind of 'international' look? [cid:image001.png(at)01C974FE.2FC6C240] Steve E ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing construction
Date: Jan 12, 2009
Since this is really difficult for you, why not just have the wing plan page copied in reverse. Is there someone near you or, if you belong, an EAA member that can check your work. Since we all really like pictures, send them along as you progress, particularely when you've come to an irreversable juncture in the build, like just before glueing ribs for instance. Most of the bits and pieces are all identical. All the ribs are the same, all four spars are the same. the only difference there is that one wing will have the pointy( outboard ) end of the spars on the left and on the other wing those ends will be on the right. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com Dick What do I need to do to make sure that doesn't happen. This has me really concerned. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Wing construction
Do you have room to lay everything out for each wing? That way you could lay out the order of the parts, and where they go before gluing or jigging anything. When you start assembling the wings, go from the layout to the jig one piece at a time. Sometimes, I have to visualize things rather than just thinking them out... Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: passenger warning placard
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Who sells metal passenger warning placards? ACS only seems to seel rub ons. D ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wing construction
Since the plan shows a full left wing, if you build two wings as shown, you will end up with two left wings.- Build the first wing as shown. This wi ll teach you how to build the wing and along the way you will learn how to lay things out, drill holes, make the cuts, mark the rib locations, etc. No w that you have built one wing, the second is much easier. As mentioned, th is right wing needs to be like a mirror image. So, if your first wing's tip was on the left as shown, you need to lay out the right wing with the tip on the right. Keep the leading edge forward away from you and the trailing edge close to you. - As far as differences in the wings themselves, there isn't any. They are th e same; one for the left one for the right. - One note: on the center section end of the spars, you cut a small angle on the bottom of the spar where the attaching strap for the cabane strut attac hes. Use this angle as a reference! This angle must ALWAYS be on the bottom ! I ALMOST started to drill my holes for the flying struts with this angle on top of the spar. (Spar was upside down) With this angle on the bottom, y ou will have two spars with the tapered end for the wing tip on the right e nd of the spar and two with the wing tip taper on the left end. - If I was at home, I would send you pictures as I am building my first wing now as well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Wing construction
Mike, That's perfect, and the answer I was actually looking for. I started my left wing with the square cut end in my holding jig and faced the leading edge while laying out the ribs which gave me a left wing. If I place my wing tip ends into my holding jig and I populate the spar with the from the trailing edge it should yield a right wing. Due to tight spatial constraints its near impossible to center the fuse and lay out both wings so the visual picture represents the actual layout all of which makes it near impossible to see the difference. Which was the essence of my question. Just to make certain I got it all in the proper perspective I would appreciate any pics or illustrations you are willing to send. Thanks you and all that responded I appreciate the help. John In a message dated 1/13/2009 8:16:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net writes: Since the plan shows a full left wing, if you build two wings as shown, you will end up with two left wings. Build the first wing as shown. This will teach you how to build the wing and along the way you will learn how to lay things out, drill holes, make the cuts, mark the rib locations, etc. Now that you have built one wing, the second is much easier. As mentioned, this right wing needs to be like a mirror image. So, if your first wing's tip was on the left as shown, you need to lay out the right wing with the tip on the right. Keep the leading edge forward away from you and the trailing edge close to you. As far as differences in the wings themselves, there isn't any. They are the same; one for the left one for the right. One note: on the center section end of the spars, you cut a small angle on the bottom of the spar where the attaching strap for the cabane strut attaches. Use this angle as a reference! This angle must ALWAYS be on the bottom! I ALMOST started to drill my holes for the flying struts with this angle on top of the spar. (Spar was upside down) With this angle on the bottom, you will have two spars with the tapered end for the wing tip on the right end of the spar and two with the wing tip taper on the left end. If I was at home, I would send you pictures as I am building my first wing now as well. ======== (mip://05442b40/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List") ======== (mip://05442b40/3D"http://forums.matronics.com") ======== (mip://05442b40/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution") ======== **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Wing construction
Glad I can help. I have some pictures here at work that I can send right aw ay. Would you prefer I send these directly to you as opposed to taking up s pace here on the list? - If you-use that small angle cut on bottom of the center section end of th e spars as a reference, this will help you keep things oriented. (well, it did for me.)- ALWAYS keep this on the bottom and towards the center secti on. (in your head...no need to drag out the center section...or build it if you have not.)- This will also keep everything correct when you drill th e slated hole locations for the center attaching hardware and the wing stru t hardware. These slanted bolt locations all slant IN TOWARDS THE CENTER SE CTION, from the top of the spar to the bottom. Not sure why, but I looked l ong and hard at my spars and the plans to get this right. It took a little time for me to visualize what was going on. You don't want to drill the hol es in the wrong angle or with the spar upside down! - Pictures on the way. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternoon
Date: Jan 13, 2009
My favorite aviation quote is getting to be this one from William Wynne: "Today you're one day closer to losing your medical". So get busy building (Markle)! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: passenger warning placard
I got my metal passenger warning placard at Wicks. Michael Groah Tulare CA Who sells metal passenger warning placards? ACS only seems to seel rub ons. D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: passenger warning placard
Date: Jan 13, 2009
I used the one from Wicks. pn#PC100-015S It is stainless and screws on. I'm looking at their 2006 catalog and it's on pg 339. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: passenger warning placard > > > Who sells metal passenger warning placards? > > ACS only seems to seel rub ons. > > D > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 13, 2009
It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 13, 2009
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I'd like to start a Falco Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: port wine and night lighting
Date: Jan 13, 2009
You said there is no red port wine left=2C right? How about green then? Would Red be right departing=2C too=2C or would that only be if he was staying in a posh stateroom where he can see Bombay from the verandah? I have a similar question. Is anybody flying a Piet with night lighting=2C and if so- how often do you actually fly it at night? I know I've seen pix of several that have recognition lights but I'm not sure I've ever seen one with a landing light. Just curious. Pass the port wine=2C if there's any left. I'm grounding myself for awhile . Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC=2C day VFR only San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun I'd like to start a Falco Jack Phillips ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Just kidding, Dick. I'd love to build a Falco, but I need to finish the RV-10 first. I think Karen would kill me if I started another project. Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack <mailto:Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun I'd like to start a Falco Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 13, 2009
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Dick - It's quite a tempting offer. My plans for building a Piet are for the long fuselage in tube and fabric, which doesn't do the wood workshop much good. That being said, I've got a set of Charlie Rubeck's ribs (safely preserved in the shipping boxes from him) and it would be really cool to put together a wing or two at Sun 'n Fun. I haven't really decided on a one- or three-piece wing, and could probably be swayed either way. For the last few years, this has been the time of year when I start waffling on going or not, although it's been a while since I missed one, and I just got my 10 year pin from Monda last year, so there might be some guilt involved. I only officially get two weeks a year of vacation from my current employer, but it's been combined with sick time as PTO now, and I lost a week and a half last fall doing battle with my gall bladder. Three issues come to mind, probably all resolvable. The first is logistics. I'm not quite sure how I'd get a pair of wings (or partial wings) back to New Hampshire. The second is that my responsibilities are with metal shaping. In years past, I've said I'll take the time this year to do this or that, but when we get cranking in the workshop, the day is gone before you know it, as you well know. In all fairness, I probably can't commit to spending much quality time with the woodworkers, despite all good intentions. The third (and I suspect minor) issue is about the paperwork. I've done nothing officially with the FAA (or EAA) to start this project. I was going to consult with a guy up here who's built a couple experimentals (including a Piet) for some guidance and possibly getting hooked up with a technical advisor and/or DAR. Although I don't live right in the Styx, you can see it from here, and these things aren't as conveniently available as in some of the more 'civilized' areas. I'm not sure the sequence of events to bringing an experimental to life, but I didn't want to commit the faux-pas of starting construction if I was supposed to do some paperwork first. I suppose I could be swayed if you'd give me the radial off the front of yours..... Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> >Sent: Jan 13, 2009 1:33 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > >It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. >There are several of us from the list who participate and help. >Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: warning placard
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Do I need to put an experiemental passenger warning placard in the rear cockpit as well as the front? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: port wine and night lighting
Date: Jan 13, 2009
Sorry, none left! :-) Pass the port wine, if there's any left. I'm grounding myself for awhile. Oscar Zuniga ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
So Dick does that mean you have finished the Volmer Amphibian (sp)? How about an Super Emmeraude? Beautiful low wing two place side by side. Jim On Jan 13, 2009, horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote: Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Id like to start a Falco Jack Phillips From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Subject: Re: port wine and night lighting
From: Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com>
Hi Oscar: Took these pictures of N58TL at Brodhead in 2005. West Coast Piet http://www.westcoastpiet.com/ has several more pictures. Bill - > > I have a similar question. Is anybody flying a Piet with night lighting, > and if so- how often do you actually fly it at night? I know I've seen > pix of several that have recognition lights but I'm not sure I've ever > seen one with a landing light. Just curious. > > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC, day VFR only > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: warning placard
Date: Jan 13, 2009
NO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: warning placard > > > Do I need to put an experiemental passenger warning placard in the rear > cockpit as well as the front? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Too bad Jack. That Falco looks nice. I know what you mean about the wife situation. I'm trying not to be tempted to start a 4th plane at this point. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Just kidding, Dick. I'd love to build a Falco, but I need to finish the RV-10 first. I think Karen would kill me if I started another project. Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:47 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun I'd like to start a Falco Jack Phillips ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietaryor otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the senderimmediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Jim The Volmer is well along. There aren't any more small parts to build. I might trailer it to show off but not sure at this point. See the attached pic 2yrs into building. Landing gear is on the welding table. See one wing in background, other is out of view ( one right and one left). Canopy assy is done. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun So Dick does that mean you have finished the Volmer Amphibian (sp)? How about an Super Emmeraude? Beautiful low wing two place side by side. Jim On Jan 13, 2009, horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote: Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Id like to start a Falco Jack Phillips From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Jim You are already familiar with the workshops so that's a plus. You need to settle most of the questions yourself. You would have to commit the time to the Wood shop to do this. I do know the only paperwork along the way is to keep a builders log and keep receipts for materials. You will need tail feathers, regardless of other decisions. Let us know Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Dick - It's quite a tempting offer. My plans for building a Piet are for the long fuselage in tube and fabric, which doesn't do the wood workshop much good. That being said, I've got a set of Charlie Rubeck's ribs (safely preserved in the shipping boxes from him) and it would be really cool to put together a wing or two at Sun 'n Fun. I haven't really decided on a one- or three-piece wing, and could probably be swayed either way. For the last few years, this has been the time of year when I start waffling on going or not, although it's been a while since I missed one, and I just got my 10 year pin from Monda last year, so there might be some guilt involved. I only officially get two weeks a year of vacation from my current employer, but it's been combined with sick time as PTO now, and I lost a week and a half last fall doing battle with my gall bladder. Three issues come to mind, probably all resolvable. The first is logistics. I'm not quite sure how I'd get a pair of wings (or partial wings) back to New Hampshire. The second is that my responsibilities are with metal shaping. In years past, I've said I'll take the time this year to do this or that, but when we get cranking in the workshop, the day is gone before you know it, as you well know. In all fairness, I probably can't commit to spending much quality time with the woodworkers, despite all good intentions. The third (and I suspect minor) issue is about the paperwork. I've done nothing officially with the FAA (or EAA) to start this project. I was going to consult with a guy up here who's built a couple experimentals (including a Piet) for some guidance and possibly getting hooked up with a technical advisor and/or DAR. Although I don't live right in the Styx, you can see it from here, and these things aren't as conveniently available as in some of the more 'civilized'! areas. I'm not sure the sequence of events to bringing an experimental to life, but I didn't want to commit the faux-pas of starting construction if I was supposed to do some paperwork first. I suppose I could be swayed if you'd give me the radial off the front of yours..... Jim -----Original Message----- >From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> >Sent: Jan 13, 2009 1:33 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > >It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a >project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. >You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or >a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know >if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. >There are several of us from the list who participate and help. >Dick N. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wing construction OT
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Steve, it wasn't so much that the cabins faced the land. It was more important that they faced away from the sun and were therefore more comfortable. (No AC in those days.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Ford Model T assembly video
Date: Jan 14, 2009
This 5 minute video might be of interest to those using the Ford engine in their Piets (the "A"=2C not the "T")=2C but the off-road driving sequenc es at the end of the video are worth watching=2C too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4KrIMZpwCY Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC=2C Cont. A65 powered San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Dick the Volmer looks good. I saw one up here at Clear Lake in Northern CA a few years ago. Always seemed like a neat thing to do. My home in South Dakota is right on Lake Kampeska on the edge of Watertown. During world war II the military had a couple of rescue boats stationed in the lake as the NW/SE runway ended almost at the lake edge and the military did aircraft mods at Watertown before flying the planes to Russia under the Lend/Lease program. Being only about twenty miles from the Minnesota border always thought and amphib would be a lot of fun. Got to go work on my Piets engine. Going to CC #13 this weekend and want to have more done first. Just have to put on the heads, front cover and rear oil housing. Have the Piet landing gear almost ready to weld and the tubing for the engine mount. Cheers, Jim On Jan 13, 2009, horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote: Jim The Volmer is well along. There aren't any more small parts to build. I might trailer it to show off but not sure at this point. See the attached pic 2yrs into building. Landing gear is on the welding table. See one wing in background, other is out of view ( one right and one left). Canopy assy is done. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun So Dick does that mean you have finished the Volmer Amphibian (sp)? How about an Super Emmeraude? Beautiful low wing two place side by side. Jim On Jan 13, 2009, horzpool(at)goldengate.net wrote: Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Id like to start a Falco Jack Phillips From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Pietenpol aerobatics
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
This first email has some interesting facts about the fin attachment, and the second has some worthwhile comments about airobatics. This summer is the 80th anniversary of the Pietenpol, and there are some big things planned for Brodhead and OSH. John On 1/2/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Mike asked- > > >anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane? > > I have not. I was keen to practice spins and spin recovery in 41CC > but my instructor, who is proficient at aerobatics, felt that the > airplane might not have as much rudder as he'd like so we didn't try > spins. > > >things like hammer heads and tail slides > > Hammerheads, I wouldn't think would be an issue at all. Tail slides- > yikes! I'd be very hesitant to try that. The iffy part of it is > that a hammerhead can result in a tail-slide if the rudder break is > not performed in time, and either one can result in a spin if not > performed right. I'm not saying the Piet is impossible to spin and > recover from, I'm just saying I haven't demonstrated spins in mine. > > Yet. > > By the way, thinking about the tail surfaces, in the recent discussion > about the L-brackets that mount the vertical stabilizer to the > fuselage and horizontal stabilizers, someone mentioned that the only > force that the through-bolts would see is an upward pull as drag > pulls the stabilizer aft. I disagree, having looked back at the tail > in flight often enough to know that those surfaces see quite a bit of > buffetting from propeller slipstream and turbulence. In addition, > in a slip I would think that the surfaces would see some sidewise > forces as well. At any rate, I agree that a wooden block between the > gussets would do nicely to fix the little misalignment of the spars > and provide a good grip for the L-brackets. > > I would also agree with putting in some offset (or the ability to > do so if needed later). My airplane has a fixed tab on the rudder and > could use just a skosh more... but a fixed offset in the vertical > stabilizer leading edge would take care of that. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: warning placard
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Just the front. Don't confuse the passenger warning label with the EXPERIMENTAL label. 'NX' just gets rid of the ugly big one on the side of the cockpit. The black rub-on passenger warning from Aircraft Spruce blends nicely with the front mahogany panel... not that I'm trying to hide that or anything.... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224776#224776 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Date: Jan 14, 2009
Dick I have a new project . A group of old guyes are building or rebuilding a CG4 Glider. That has a 70+ foot wing span. Is that to big for the shop. I'am building ribs lile crazy. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick N. Sent: 1/14/2009 12:06:10 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Too bad Jack. That Falco looks nice. I know what you mean about the wife situation. I'm trying not to be tempted to start a 4th plane at this point. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Just kidding, Dick. Id love to build a Falco, but I need to finish the RV-10 first. I think Karen would kill me if I started another project. Jack From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Jack The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if that is something you would like to do. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun Id like to start a Falco Jack Phillips From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to discuss further how to take the next step. There are several of us from the list who participate and help. Dick N. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jan 15, 2009
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Dale, is it for the Silent Wings Museum in Lubbock, Texas? If anyone is in that area the Silent Wings Museum is one of the best subject specific Museums I have ever seen. They focus on the Glider pilots of WWII. They do discuss the glider infantry but mostly the pilots. Last I knew they had a WACO and had sent WACO plans to Great Britian so that the GB museum could build/restore a WACO. They had Horsa glider plans sent by the GB group so that they could build/restore a Horsa Glider for their Museum. http://www.silentwingsmuseum.com/ Blue Skies Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Johnson <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 16:45 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > Dick > I have a new project . A group of old guyes are building or > rebuilding a CG4 Glider. > That has a 70+ foot wing span. Is that to big for the shop. I'am > building ribs lile crazy. > Dale > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dick N. > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: 1/14/2009 12:06:10 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > > > Too bad Jack. That Falco looks nice. I know what you mean about > the wife situation. I'm trying not to be tempted to start a 4th > plane at this point. > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack Phillips > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:16 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > > > Just kidding, Dick. Id love to build a Falco, but I need to > finish the RV-10 first. I think Karen would kill me if I started > another project. > > Jack > > > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 4:47 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > > Jack > The Falco looks like a mighty nice plane. That would be a great > project. You know many of the crew down there. Let me know if > that is something you would like to do. > Dick N. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Phillips, Jack > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:47 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > > Id like to start a Falco > > Jack Phillips > > > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N. > Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun > > It's time to start thinking about spring. Does anyone want to > jump start a project? We are looking for a project for the Wood > Forum at Sun n Fun. You could bring materials and drive away with > a completed basic fuselage or a set of wings, one left and one > right at the end of the show. Let me know if you would like to > discuss further how to take the next step. > There are several of us from the list who participate and help. > Dick N. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > _________________________________________________ > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in > error, please notify the sender > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - > Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol- > List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol- > List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: kubota alternator
Date: Jan 15, 2009
I want to put a small kubota alternator on my Ford like Ken Perkins did. He said somebody at Brodhead told him about a place where you could buy the same one kubota sells for $190 for $90. Does anybody know anything about this? Thanks Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: kubota alternator
Date: Jan 15, 2009
Douwe: tried to email you back chanel but your spam bloker wont let me in so here goes: Keep an eye o ebay under industrial and or garden tools they pop up often there. Here's one right now, see ebay Item number: 250357140664 Here's an other one Item number: 360123421950 The are taken off new tractors and forklifts when the purchasing customer requests additional lighs or accesories thus requiring more than the 15 amps the units put out. I got mine brand new for about 50$ Dont forget the correct heat sink regulator that goes with the unit. New those sell for as much as 180$. Michael in coooool Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > > I want to put a small kubota alternator on my Ford like Ken Perkins did. He > said somebody at Brodhead told him about a place where you could buy the > same one kubota sells for $190 for $90. Does anybody know anything about > this? > > Thanks > > Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: battery for radio/gps/intercom
Date: Jan 15, 2009
Hey, Disregard my post about the alternator for my Ford, with two mags and the radiator, I don't think there is room. So... I was thinking another option is to simply put a motorcyle battery and one of those small smart chargers permanently installed. So I just plug it in and charge it up. My question is this. Being weak in this whole electrical area, can anyone help me figure out how much battery I'd need to run a simple black and white gps, a portable radio and an intercom for a reasonable period of time? The most I EVER anticipate possibly needing it would be to get me to Brodhead from Cincinatti, so maybe 7 hrs max, possibly 8 with diversions? Thanks, Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: battery for radio/gps/intercom
Date: Jan 15, 2009
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
I've got an 18 Amp-Hour PowerSonic battery in my Pietenpol. I flew all the way to Brodhead from Raleigh NC last summer running the GPS and the radio continuously (I only run the transponder when going into a Class C or Class B airspace because it draws a lot of current). I flew for 14 hours that day and had plenty of battery left when I landed at Brodhead. I did recharge it the next day with a small portable charger that I plug into the cigarette lighter. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: battery for radio/gps/intercom Hey, Disregard my post about the alternator for my Ford, with two mags and the radiator, I don't think there is room. So... I was thinking another option is to simply put a motorcyle battery and one of those small smart chargers permanently installed. So I just plug it in and charge it up. My question is this. Being weak in this whole electrical area, can anyone help me figure out how much battery I'd need to run a simple black and white gps, a portable radio and an intercom for a reasonable period of time? The most I EVER anticipate possibly needing it would be to get me to Brodhead from Cincinatti, so maybe 7 hrs max, possibly 8 with diversions? Thanks, Douwe _________________________________________________ or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: battery for radio/gps/intercom
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Jan 15, 2009
I have hundreds of lithium ion batteries that I'm not using. They are 3.9v and 1.3 Ahrs each. Figure out the current draw on all your loads, and I'll send you enough to make a battery pack to run as long as you need for a buck per cell. It would be considerably lighter and last longer. Each cell has it's own charging regulator, so primative charging methods are ok. Jeremy in Dallas ------Original Message------ From: Douwe Blumberg Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jan 15, 2009 1:49 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: battery for radio/gps/intercom Hey, Disregard my post about the alternator for my Ford, with two mags and the radiator, I don't think there is room. So... I was thinking another option is to simply put a motorcyle battery and one of those small smart chargers permanently installed. So I just plug it in and charge it up. My question is this. Being weak in this whole electrical area, can anyone help me figure out how much battery I'd need to run a simple black and white gps, a portable radio and an intercom for a reasonable period of time? The most I EVER anticipate possibly needing it would be to get me to Brodhead from Cincinatti, so maybe 7 hrs max, possibly 8 with diversions? Thanks, Douwe Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: battery for radio/gps/intercom
Douwe, Unless you are trying to power a starter with the battery, I think you'll be better off simply using latest-generation batteries in the devices you list. Heck, they don't even need to be latest generation. Even old-style NiCads will work for what you want, though some latest-generation NimH batteries for the Vertex-type handhelds reputedly last over 20 hrs (!). Depending on which exact devices you own, most batteries will easily last for 7 hrs of intermittent use. The 9V alkaline battery in my portable intercom gets changed twice a year, and that's only precautionary - it's never actually run down. The only thing I think you need to pay close attention to is the GPS because on some units the displays can really eat batteries. But even then, you're not going to fly for more than 4 hrs at a time, so just keep spare AAs and replace at every other fuel stop. Store brand alkalines work fine - I bought a sleeve of 24 three years ago and still haven't used them all. Once they run out, I may look into rotating packs of rechargeable AAs. The new ones have come way down in price and are long-lasting. We have an Odyssey battery on the firewall because we have a starter on the C-85. We don't have a generator or alternator (we recharge the battery using a 5W solar panel). At the time we installed the battery, we also installed wiring that runs back to the rear cockpit to two cigarette lighters because we thought we'd use the battery to power things like handheld radios and GPSs. That was two years ago. We've never plugged in. It's just not necessary. HTH, Jeff > > >Hey, > >Disregard my post about the alternator for my Ford, with two mags and the >radiator, I don't think there is room. > >So... I was thinking another option is to simply put a motorcyle battery and >one of those small smart chargers permanently installed. So I just plug it >in and charge it up. > >My question is this. Being weak in this whole electrical area, can anyone >help me figure out how much battery I'd need to run a simple black and white >gps, a portable radio and an intercom for a reasonable period of time? The >most I EVER anticipate possibly needing it would be to get me to Brodhead >from Cincinatti, so maybe 7 hrs max, possibly 8 with diversions? > >Thanks, > >Douwe > -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Hans: inspection checklist?
Date: Jan 15, 2009
Hans, if you're still on the list- A while back you posted an inspection checklist for your airplane. All attachments are stripped from posts when they go to the Matronics archives so I can't seem to find that checklist. Would you mind sending it to me or can you upload it to the Matronics attachments/photos please? Thanks! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 15, 2009
Subject: Re: Hans: inspection checklist?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Oscar, Just in case Hans is not watching the list.... If you go to: http://forum.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7 you can access a web-based "discussion board" style of the list. You can search through the archives of this version of the list, much like the full Matronics archives, although it doesn't go back nearly as many years as the normal archives. The upside of the "discussion board" archives is that they retain the attachments that were in the original messages. I believe if you go to: http://forum.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=23586 you may find what you need. The second message in the thread is from Hans, and he attached a Word document containing an annual checklist he made for his Piet. Scroll down one more message and you find a similar document Jack Phillips made for his wood landing gear equipped Piet. There are download links for both of those docs. Hopefully that is what you were looking for. Have a good night, Ryan On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Hans, if you're still on the list- > > A while back you posted an inspection checklist for your > airplane. All attachments are stripped from posts when > they go to the Matronics archives so I can't seem to find > that checklist. Would you mind sending it to me or can > you upload it to the Matronics attachments/photos please? > > Thanks! > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Hans: inspection checklist?
Date: Jan 16, 2009
Ryan=2C others- EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thanks! Needless to say=2C it's time for annual condition inspection for 41CC...Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2009
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Just trying again
Does anyone know of a way to fit a starter on an A-65? walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Just trying again
I have developed a group of friends at my airport that will give me a prop if I ask them nice :) Seriously, I think I've heard of some type of airboat conversion, I believe I saw it listed on e-bay a few months back It would probably be easier to upgrade to a C-85F Ben Charvet Mims Fl Baby Ace N39D (A-75) Piet NX866BC covering the wings now walt wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to fit a starter on an A-65? > walt evans > NX140DL > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Just trying again
Date: Jan 16, 2009
Walt; I thought the idea given last time was pretty good, to fit a flywheel on the hub. The link I followed was this one: http://www.mtnguy.com/kr2/ I asked my engine guru about this and he says he's seen it done before. Of course, if you have a cert engine before you start, you won't have one when you're done. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Just trying again
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
The Fly Baby site has a "Harry Fenton on Small Continental Engines" section talking about starters: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm#starters According to what he says the A-65-9 is the only A-65 configured for a starter. Parts can be scarce, it can only use heavy non-impulse Bendix mags, and it ends up weighing almost as much as a C-85-12 with lightened accessories (sort of seconds what Ben said). Or you could try to find a McDowell Aero Safety Starter. I think Bill Rewey has one on his Piet.... Ryan On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > I have developed a group of friends at my airport that will give me a prop > if I ask them nice :) > Seriously, I think I've heard of some type of airboat conversion, I believe > I saw it listed on e-bay a few months back > It would probably be easier to upgrade to a C-85F > > Ben Charvet > Mims Fl > Baby Ace N39D (A-75) > Piet NX866BC covering the wings now > > > walt wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a way to fit a starter on an A-65? >> walt evans >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Just trying again
Date: Jan 16, 2009
Bill Rewey does. He just did one recently. On Jan 16, 2009, at 4:38 PM, walt wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to fit a starter on an A-65? > walt evans > NX140DL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I know what a wing looks like
From: "jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
Hi. I am assembling an air camper at the Ira G. Ross Aerospace museum. much of the work was completed by a gentleman who passed away several years ago. It is of the three piece wing design. From your description I assume yours is also. I have the front and rear spars of the left hand wing attached to the center section. While laying out the positions of the ribs, I found an interference of 3/8" between the flying strut attachment on the spars and Rib #8. The interference occurs where the attachment crosses over the top of the spar. I'm wondering if you found the same thing on your wing and what you did about it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225328#225328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing construction OT
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
> Word History: "Oh yes, Mater, we had a posh time of it down there." So in Punch for September 25, 1918, do we find the first recorded instance posh, meaning "smart and fashionable." A popular theory holds that it is derived from the initials of "Port Out, Starboard Home," the cooler, and thus more expensive, side of ships traveling between England and India in the mid-19th century. The acronym POSH was supposedly stamped on the tickets of first-class passengers traveling on that side of ships owned by the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company. No known evidence supports this theory, however. Another word posh was 19th- and early 20th-century British slang for "money," specifically "a halfpenny, cash of small value." This word is borrowed from the Romany word ph, "half," which was used in combinations such as phera, "halfpenny." Posh, also meaning "a dandy," is recorded in two dictionaries of slang, published in 1890 and 1902, although this particular posh may be still another word. This word or these words are, however, much more likely to be the source of posh than "Port Out, Starboard Home," although the latter source certainly has caught the public's etymological fancy. >From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/posh Also see http://tafkac.org/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Out,_Starboard_Home -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225359#225359 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
lnawms(at)yahoo.com wrote: > 1. Simplificate and add lightness. "Simplificate?" Reminds me of the old admonition, "Eschew obfuscation!" Here's one to add to the list: "Cogito cogitas, ergo cogito sum." ("I think I think, therefore I think I am.") -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225387#225387 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet Ultralight?
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
While that auction was still active, I sent the seller an email wondering how the plane could make the ultralight weight limit with a full VW engine. His response was real brief: "Read the listing." The first two sentences of the description do in fact state what is going on: "This craft started life as a Roger Mann designed Pietenpol Aircamper Ultralight. But now falls under experimental catogory." Well and good, but the title still misleading to have the titl -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225388#225388 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
Subject: Re: Wing construction OT
OK Bill, I bow to the master word geek. I myself am only an amature geek who likes shiney things in the sun. But I had no Idea that Mater from the Cars movie was around in 1918. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Mild Bill <whfrank(at)charter.net> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009 16:19 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing construction OT > > > > Word History: "Oh yes, Mater, we had a posh time of it down there." So in Punch for September 25, 1918, do we find the first recorded > instance posh, meaning "smart and fashionable." A popular theory > holds that it is derived from the initials of "Port Out, Starboard > Home," the cooler, and thus more expensive, side of ships > traveling between England and India in the mid-19th century. The > acronym POSH was supposedly stamped on the tickets of first-class > passengers traveling on that side of ships owned by the Peninsular > and Oriental Steam Navigation Company. No known evidence supports > this theory, however. Another word posh was 19th- and early 20th- > century British slang for "money," specifically "a halfpenny, cash > of small value." This word is borrowed from the Romany word > ph, "half," which was used in combinations such as phera, > "halfpenny." Posh, also meaning "a dandy," is recorded in two > dictionaries of slang, published in 1890 and 1902, although this > particular pos! > h may be still another word. This word or these words are, > however, much more likely to be the source of posh than "Port Out, > Starboard Home," although the latter source certainly has caught > the public's etymological fancy. > > >From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/posh > > Also see > http://tafkac.org/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Out,_Starboard_Home > > -------- > Bill Frank > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225359#225359 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: off-topic: Fairchild 51
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
Link didn't work for me. I brought up the main page for the site and searched for Fairchild 51 but most of the aircraft shots were of an A-10 in formation with a P-51, none of the very few other Fairchild planes was a 51. -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225410#225410 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Made a mistake
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
Jack - why not add a trim tab? -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225419#225419 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: off-topic: Fairchild 51
Date: Jan 17, 2009
Here's a couple of shots http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Fairchild/4535.htm http://vilda.alaska.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/cdmg11&CISOPTR'25&REC=6 Clif Warren Buffet "Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked." > > I brought up the main page for the site and searched for Fairchild 51 but > most of the aircraft shots were of an A-10 in formation with a P-51, none > of the very few other Fairchild planes was a 51. > > -------- > Bill Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: off-topic: Fairchild 51
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
Sweet. I always liked that design. The earliest of the 51's ancestors was the FC-1, originally powered by a Curtiss OX-5: http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Fairchild/4444.htm http://www.robertsuomala.com/3.html It would seem possible to design a scaled down FC-1 powered with a Ford Model A engine.... -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225428#225428 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing construction OT
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 17, 2009
I loved Cars but missed the part about Mater being around in 1918. Was that from one of the Carstoon shorts that they've been showing before feature films of late? Mater's stories in the two I've seen were so preposterous I just about fell out of my chair from laughing. -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225429#225429 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: off-topic: Fairchild 51
Date: Jan 18, 2009
Bill=3B I just went back to Dave's site and it came up just fine=2C but my email client sometimes does strange things to the word wrap so some of the address may have been truncated. Make sure it all gets pasted in the line of your browser: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9773776@N08/sets/72157601305722923/ Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 18, 2009
From: Ryan Michals <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Ribs For Sale
List, I am offering my prized set of Roman Buckolt built Pietenpol ribs for sale. These were beautifully built and carefully crated for shipping. I am asking $350.00. Please contact me off list if interested. I wanted to offe r them to the list first, tomorrow they will be posted on Barnstormers. I w ill try to post a pic in the listst archive too. - - Thanks - Ryan Michalkiewicz 321-536-9479=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jan 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Wing construction OT
You said "Word History: "Oh yes, Mater, we had a posh time of it down there." So in Punch for September 25, 1918" so I assumed that you ment the only Mater that this redneck knows. One of Mater's Tall Tales has him being a surgeon and saving Lightning McQueen's life and having the sexy "car" nurses cooing and following Mater around. About as funny as can be. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Mild Bill <whfrank(at)charter.net> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009 23:40 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing construction OT > > I loved Cars but missed the part about Mater being around in 1918. Was that from one of the Carstoon shorts that they've been showing > before feature films of late? Mater's stories in the two I've seen > were so preposterous I just about fell out of my chair from laughing. > > -------- > Bill Frank > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225429#225429 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Pietenpol at Mojave Spaceport
Listers: A nice Air Camper belonging to Joann Painter showed up at the Mojave Spaceport on Saturday, January 17. They are apparently starting a "once-a-month" fly-in which kicked off on that day. Lots of cool airplanes on display. Anyway, you can see the photos of the initial event at: http://mojaveskies.blogspot.com/ This site is a great aircraft related blogspot put together by Alan Radecki who is stationed at Mojave with a helicopter rescue team. I have been visiting his site for several years now and am seldom disappointed. Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 19, 2009
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Lucky number 13
Got back from Corvair College 13 last night. Have been to three of these and this was the best one yet (even though it was number 13, remember Apollo 13?). First Light Aviation is a beautiful facility ( http://web.mac.com/flaglvk/iWeb/FLAG/home.html) and will be a great resource for us Corvair geeks and any other home builders (I only wish I lived a lot closer to it). The turnout was very good, the food was excellent, and a lot of learning was going on. Thanks again to Rick Lindstrom, Cory and the other First Light people in Livermore for hosting a great event and of course WW. proud to be a member of the tribe Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing construction OT
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 19, 2009
Oh, now I get it. [Smacks self on forehead.] In that quote I read "Mater" as "Mother" (which it is, in Latin) without even thinking about it, so I forgot all about it being in the quote and ended up wondering if Tow Mater did some time traveling in a Cars Toon. It seems entirely plausible for Mater to make such an outrageously implausible claim. Hmm..... A little research and ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XFEqr6LqPk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUVzdS6GqDk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1wj93FoaRI -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225819#225819 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: off-topic: Fairchild 51
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Jan 19, 2009
The text string I can see in your replies is http://www.flickr.com/photos/9773776(at)N08/sets/72157601305722923/ This is odd: When I edited the text string in the browser window's URL field by changing the '(at)' to '@' I got an error message. However, when I copied the new text string into a fresh browser window with a blank URL field, it worked. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9773776@N08/sets/72157601305722923/ The edited text string was exactly the same in both cases - go figure. -------- Bill Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225821#225821 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Chapman" <greg(at)mousetrax.com>
Subject: Nice article, Oscar!
Date: Jan 20, 2009
Just got the Experimenter in email. Good overview of the Flying Squirrel project! http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-01_womb.asp Greg Chapman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Nice article, Oscar!
Date: Jan 21, 2009
Yes, major congrats OZ! Of course, Oscar=92s story is only part of the much bigger eNewsletter that the EAA launched last night. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/issues/0901.html I would encourage everyone to check it out, become a free subscriber (even if not an EAA member) and to take the survey found at the very bottom of the page. This eNewsletter is aimed at the true homebuilder, (I hate to use the grass-roots clich=E9, but it=92s accurate) which is you guys. Thanks! Pat _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Chapman Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice article, Oscar! Just got the Experimenter in email. Good overview of the Flying Squirrel project! http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-01_womb.asp Greg Chapman ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Nice article, Oscar!....and Dan Helsper's Aeronca Sedan
makes cover
Date: Jan 21, 2009
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Good BPA newsletter article Oscar on the use of NX in lieu of having the big bumper-sticker EXPERIMENTAL plastered on a homebuilt that was designed 30 years or better ago and nice article on your Squirrel in The Experimenter. Wouldn't Corky and the infamous Fisherman, aka Ray Axillou be interested in that design with all of those high-flotation foam wing ribs for surviving those long overwater flights to Belize and Hawaii ? What say ye Corky, the gentleman from the south ? (or have you too much money invested in ping-pong ball manufacturing companies ?) And as much as I love Doc Mosher I don't recall saying that I had a blast at the Pietenpol gathering at Oshkosh 1998 because as Larry Williams so astutely pointed out, that event didn't happen until 1999 but....I did have a pretty good time besides that one day it hit 102 F in the shade. You have to cut Doc some slack after doing all that corporate flying at high altitudes without supplemental oxygen and after all...he does pretty good for being close to 90:)) (I harass him relentlessly at Brodhead) Mike C. in Ohio PS-- and if you look closely at the cover photo on the latest BPAN Newsletter you'll see Dan Helsper back-taxiing on Runway 27 at Brodhead in the lower portion of the photo. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Nice article, Oscar!
Pat, Thanks for taking on this new job. The newsletter is fun and useful. Good article about Joe Norris. I have found him to be a solid resource at EAA. He responds quickly and thoroughly by email or phone. Jeff -- _____________________________________________________________ Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jan 21, 2009
Subject: Nice article, Oscar!
This is a great shot it the arm from EAA HQ. I'm thrilled that Experimente r is back, and Paul P. can see to it that the homebuilder roots are still a live and well. I was disappointed when the sport pilot organization and ma gazine (name may be wrong) floundered. Steve Eldredge From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Panzera Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:55 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Nice article, Oscar! Yes, major congrats OZ! Of course, Oscar's story is only part of the much bigger eNewsletter that t he EAA launched last night. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/issues/0901.html I would encourage everyone to check it out, become a free subscriber (even if not an EAA member) and to take the survey found at the very bottom of th e page. This eNewsletter is aimed at the true homebuilder, (I hate to use the grass -roots clich=E9, but it's accurate) which is you guys. Thanks! Pat ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Chapman Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 8:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Nice article, Oscar! Just got the Experimenter in email. Good overview of the Flying Squirrel pr oject! http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-01_womb.asp Greg Chapman http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Nice article, Oscar!
Date: Jan 21, 2009
This is a great shot it the arm from EAA HQ. I'm thrilled that Experimenter is back, and Paul P. can see to it that the homebuilder roots are still alive and well. I was disappointed when the sport pilot organization and magazine (name may be wrong) floundered. Paul called this morning and said that he wants to be a regular contributor. :-) Pat Steve Eldredge <http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/issues/0901.html> http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/issues/0901.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Piet News Letter Photo
To all BPA news letter subscribers,- Who ever submitted th photo of NX92G B, nice photo, but Gary Bell Did not take it.- I think this is a West Cos t Piet Photo, so Credit goes to Tracy.- I hope many of you plan on going to Brodhead, and Oshkosh this year.- I plan on talking Dad in to going at least Brodhead and OSH for sun, mon.- - Waiting for the sub zero temp to subside, Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Shad, I would imagine that you are correct about BPA sourcing the photo from WestCoastPiet. It is listed under "Gary Bell" on the site, so that would explain the credit. Thanks of course goes to Chris for hosting it, and I believe the original photographer on that one is Bill Church. Still subzero over there? It was downright balmy in Chicago today. I don't know if it hit 30 degrees, but it was pretty nice in the sun. :P Have a good night, Ryan On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:31 PM, shad bell wrote: > To all BPA news letter subscribers, Who ever submitted th photo of NX92GB, > nice photo, but Gary Bell Did not take it. I think this is a West Cost Piet > Photo, so Credit goes to Tracy. I hope many of you plan on going to > Brodhead, and Oshkosh this year. I plan on talking Dad in to going at least > Brodhead and OSH for sun, mon. > > Waiting for the sub zero temp to subside, > Shad > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Jan 22, 2009
The picture of Ted Davis's plane I believe was taken by Bill Church. Sorry for all the confusion. I will Email Doc and let him know where the credit should go. As for the website, the vast majority of the photos on WestCostPiet.com were not taken by me because I have only seen two completed and three under construction Pietenpols (including my own) in my life time. I have never seen one fly. Sad I know but I cant get Mike Cuy to fly his over the Sierras so I can see one fly. I know there are a few Pietenpols here in California but I guess they have to keep them hidden from all the RV and Fast Glass owners. A lot of the early photos I got off the internet. Since then I have been given photos by a few other sources, such as Bill. I didn't anticipate others using them in published documents so I never thought about trying to add credit for the photographer. They were used only to help me build. Prior to the website I used to send people copies on CD but found it cheaper in the long run to put them on a web page. In the future I will try to add a photographer name to the photos if I can find a easy way to do it. Speaking of photos, we need more construction photos on the site. If some of you builders could send me some pictures, I would really appreciate it. You can remain anonymous or go by a code name if you want. Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226182#226182 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
Date: Jan 22, 2009
Hi Chris! I am building my Pietenpol at Santa Maria Airport! There are a couple at San Luis Obispo, and one at Lompoc. If you are ever in in the area you can check out mine! Cheers! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Catdesigns Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet News Letter Photo The picture of Ted Davis's plane I believe was taken by Bill Church. Sorry for all the confusion. I will Email Doc and let him know where the credit should go. As for the website, the vast majority of the photos on WestCostPiet.com were not taken by me because I have only seen two completed and three under construction Pietenpols (including my own) in my life time. I have never seen one fly. Sad I know but I cant get Mike Cuy to fly his over the Sierras so I can see one fly. I know there are a few Pietenpols here in California but I guess they have to keep them hidden from all the RV and Fast Glass owners. A lot of the early photos I got off the internet. Since then I have been given photos by a few other sources, such as Bill. I didn't anticipate others using them in published documents so I never thought about trying to add credit for the photographer. They were used only to help me build. Prior to the website I used to send people copies on CD but found it cheaper in the long run to put them on a web page. In the future I will try to add a photographer name to the photos if I can find a easy way to do it. Speaking of photos, we need more construction photos on the site. If some of you builders could send me some pictures, I would really appreciate it. You can remain anonymous or go by a code name if you want. Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226182#226182 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
Date: Jan 22, 2009
Chris, Yes, the latest BPA newsletter cover shot of Ted Davis' plane is one that I shot. But don't worry (I don't) about who gets credit. I say the credit should go to yourself, for hosting such an extremely helpful (and often referred to) website , and to the Moshers for all the work Doc and Dee do putting together a great little newsletter four times a year for barely enough money to get the thing printed and mailed (always on schedule, too). Somehow my photos have ended up on the cover of the last two issues of the newsletter. As for my own exposure to actual living Pietenpols, other than the Pietenpol-shaped bits of wood out in my garage, I have only actually seen one that was located outside of the annual Brodhead or Brussels Pietenpol gatherings. Of course, whenever I am around a Piet, I do tend to take a lot of photos. And I don't mind sharing them with anyone that wants to see them. Your site makes sharing them a lot easier. But seriously, Chris. you gotta get to Brodhead. You wouldn't believe what a motivation booster it is. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet News Letter Photo
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 22, 2009
Dave Is that an open invitation? I am not really certain where those areas are however Ill be in Ontario,Fontana,City of Industry the week of Jan 26 and would enjoy looking at Piets in progress. Even at the risk of inviting myself. The unbridled avarice of Pietenpol mania knows no shame or humility. John ------Original Message------ From: Dave Abramson Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jan 22, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet News Letter Photo Hi Chris! I am building my Pietenpol at Santa Maria Airport! There are a couple at San Luis Obispo, and one at Lompoc. If you are ever in in the area you can check out mine! Cheers! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Catdesigns Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet News Letter Photo The picture of Ted Davis's plane I believe was taken by Bill Church. Sorry for all the confusion. I will Email Doc and let him know where the credit should go. As for the website, the vast majority of the photos on WestCostPiet.com were not taken by me because I have only seen two completed and three under construction Pietenpols (including my own) in my life time. I have never seen one fly. Sad I know but I cant get Mike Cuy to fly his over the Sierras so I can see one fly. I know there are a few Pietenpols here in California but I guess they have to keep them hidden from all the RV and Fast Glass owners. A lot of the early photos I got off the internet. Since then I have been given photos by a few other sources, such as Bill. I didn't anticipate others using them in published documents so I never thought about trying to add credit for the photographer. They were used only to help me build. Prior to the website I used to send people copies on CD but found it cheaper in the long run to put them on a web page. In the future I will try to add a photographer name to the photos if I can find a easy way to do it. Speaking of photos, we need more construction photos on the site. If some of you builders could send me some pictures, I would really appreciate it. You can remain anonymous or go by a code name if you want. Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226182#226182 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 22, 2009
Shad brought up the Brodhead and OSH trip for this year. How many of the list guys are thinking they might try to fly their Piets in? Shad I see you are hoping to at least get there for Sunday and Monday. I'm thinking maybe the same thing. Try to fly up to Brodhead on Thursday. Head to Oshkosh with the group on Sunday morning and probably try to escape the madness on Tuesday. If those plans sound similar to yours, Shad, maybe we could fly together. Always seems to be more fun with a wingman! Heading to the hangar tonight to rig up the skis. Can't wait :D Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226233#226233 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
Date: Jan 22, 2009
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Don, Shad, group, Lord willing I hope to fly up to Brodhead on Thursday then onto Oshkosh Sunday. Bill Rewey's notes in the newsletter suggested taking off in groups of five with one radio guy to call via phone from a closer airport to use the NORDO approach into Oshkosh but the last time or two I went into Oshkosh I just used a handheld and went via the Ripon approach and it worked just fine. (though I had to keep it firewalled all the way to the runway so as to not get run over by faster traffic) I was just thinking of doing the standard Ripon approach whenever I get there on Sunday...weather permitting obviously. NORDO arrivals are notoriously assigned to the twin N-S runways and if there is a big crosswind that can be a behinder so I guess I'll put my finger to the wind at Brodhead on Sunday and maybe call the tower from there and see what runway they are using for NORDO aircraft. Sounds like they are working w/ EAA to see if the tailskid guys can use grass along side the N-S runways. I know Frank Pavliga has landed in the grass a few times long ago in Sky Gypsy but we'll have to wait-n-see what EAA says about it I suspect. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
Date: Jan 22, 2009
I'm hoping to make it. Just depends on whether we've sold the house by then and started moving to Virginia. My wife is about to have a cow, with me talking about flying to Brodhead yet again (she doesn't like me to fly over the mountains - don't know why, haven't hit a mountain yet). Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead and OSH Shad brought up the Brodhead and OSH trip for this year. How many of the list guys are thinking they might try to fly their Piets in? Shad I see you are hoping to at least get there for Sunday and Monday. I'm thinking maybe the same thing. Try to fly up to Brodhead on Thursday. Head to Oshkosh with the group on Sunday morning and probably try to escape the madness on Tuesday. If those plans sound similar to yours, Shad, maybe we could fly together. Always seems to be more fun with a wingman! Heading to the hangar tonight to rig up the skis. Can't wait :D Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226233#226233 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 22, 2009
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Experimenter & Piet Photos
Just a couple observations: someone wrote (I don't remember who) "I would encourage everyone to check it out, become a free subscriber (even if not an EAA member) and to take the survey found at the very bottom of the page. This eNewsletter is aimed at the true homebuilder, (I hate to use the grass -roots clich=E9, but it's accurate) which is you guys." According to the opening of the Experimenter page, this is a FREE "member benefit" so to subscribe, you must have to be a member of the EAA. Also, reference to photos from West Coast Piet. Indeed a great resource for tons of photos, however I would venture to state that most of the photos are contributed by others, and posted on the site. So if photos are sourced from the site, the credit should go to the photographer I would imagine, not the site, although the site is a great resource for a ton of photos and I wouldn't want the job of keeping that all organized! I note that the original photographer does not seem to be credited on the site. I know because there are a hundred or so of my photos from Broadhead 2007 there, which is fine with me (I sent them to Chris myself) and I know that keeping track of all those pictures and planes is a huge undertaking, but it *would* be nice if when other publications, etc get photos from the site that the photographer would get some credit. In a perfect set up, each photo would have the plane info, plane owner, and photographers credit with it. Publications, webmasters, and others should not assume that all the photos are owned by Chris or the site. It's more like an archive of peoples work. Tim in Bovey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
Date: Jan 23, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 22, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Brodhead and OSH
We plan to fly the Piet up from the Atlanta area. Probably fly west to Moontown, AL, then more-or-less north from there. Hope to fly on to OSH, too, and spend a couple of days. Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead and OSH
Date: Jan 22, 2009
NX18235 is a "YES" for Brodhead and "MAYBE" for OSH. I need grass with my tailskid and OSH has no plans yet to make grass available. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead and OSH > > Shad brought up the Brodhead and OSH trip for this year. How many of the > list guys are thinking they might try to fly their Piets in? Shad I see > you are hoping to at least get there for Sunday and Monday. I'm thinking > maybe the same thing. Try to fly up to Brodhead on Thursday. Head to > Oshkosh with the group on Sunday morning and probably try to escape the > madness on Tuesday. If those plans sound similar to yours, Shad, maybe we > could fly together. Always seems to be more fun with a wingman! > > Heading to the hangar tonight to rig up the skis. Can't wait :D > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226233#226233 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 23, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Brodhead and OSH
Well, let's see......Brodhead starts on Thursday this year, that means I'll have to leave AR the prior Friday. Then, to get to OSH by Sunday, I'll hav e to leave B'head Friday or Saturday- Which will only leave one day to en joy B'head! - Just kidding (but only a little). I'll be at both events but will only spen d a day or two at OSH as I'm on a fixed income now.My wife and I could go o n a nice cruise for the cost of staying at OSH for the week. - By the way gang; the little airport that I live at is going to have it's fi rst of what will be an annual fly-in the second week-end in June. It's goin g to be aimed at fabric-covered tailwheel airplanes and is open to all. My plan is to eventually spin off a Pietenpol (er, snowflake) fly-in if there is enough participation. - There should be-quite a few-on the list within striking distance of Lit tle Rock that could attend and-make an impact. Contact me off-line for de tails. I hate to tie up the list with stuff like this. - Larry - ps. I'll have hangar space for a couple of planes and our guest quarters wi ll also be available.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol Air Camper Turns 80 --Larry William's plane
photo included !
Date: Jan 23, 2009
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" <Michael.D.Cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Pietenpol Air Camper Turns 80 Flight to Oshkosh, special activities planned for AirVenture <http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/images/Pietenpol%20Aircamper-1.jpg> Bernard Pietenpol's 1933 Air Camper is the centerpiece of EAA's Pietenpol Hangar at Pioneer Airport. <http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/images/PietenpolAirCamper2.jpg> In the late 1920s, Bernard Pietenpol, of Cherry Grove, Minnesota, had the dream of designing an inexpensive homebuilt airplane using commonly available materials and powered by an auto engine. The result, after a few iterations, was a simple, two-place open cockpit airplane of wood construction and powered by a four-cylinder Ford Model A automobile engine. Eighty years later, the Pietenpol Air Camper endures as a popular homebuilt design built, loved, and flown by thousands of aviation enthusiasts the world over. EAA will honor Pietenpol's time-tested, low-and-slow airplane at AirVenture Oshkosh 2009. Bill Rewey of Verona, Wisconsin, EAA 42474, is helping organize a gathering of Air Camper builders, pilots, and planes to participate in the celebration. "Right now we're talking about flying up from Brodhead (Wisconsin) on Sunday morning (July 26) in autonomous groups of five," said Rewey, a member of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association type club, which convenes its reunion there the weekend before Oshkosh. "We are also encouraging those with radios to use the regular Fisk approach." Arriving Air Campers will have reserved parking south of Homebuilders Headquarters near the old main entry arch. Rewey will also change the format of his annual Pietenpol forum, traditionally held on Tuesday morning during AirVenture. "Instead of my traditional discussion of the airplane, we'll have individual builders attend and spend a few moments each talking about their airplanes," he said. Also being planned some time during AirVenture is a special reception for builders and Air Camper pilots at EAA's Pietenpol Hangar on Pioneer Airport. On display there is Bernard's own N12937, which was built in 1933 and is considered the oldest Air Camper in existence. EAA further honors the Air Camper this year by depicting the airplane on the "I Flew My Homebuilt" patch given to all homebuilders registering at Homebuilt Headquarters. Look for more information as events and activities are confirmed at www.AirVenture.org <http://www.airventure.org/> . Pietenpol owners wishing to participate at Oshkosh should visit the Brodhead Pietenpol Association website, www.pietenpols.org <http://www.pietenpols.org/> . Pietenpol Air Camper - Specifications Length: 17 ft, 8 in Wingspan: 29 ft 0 in Height: 6.5 ft 6 in Wing area: 145 sq ft Empty weight: 620 lbs Max takeoff weight: 1,040 lbs Powerplant: Original - Ford Model A. (Others include Velie, Kinner, Lycoming, Franklin, Continental, and Chevy Corvair) Maximum speed: 86 knots (100 mph) Stall speed: 30 knots (35 mph) Rate of climb: 500 ft/min ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 23, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Aileron travel limit
What seems to be the limiting factor on aileron travel? Is it the stick, le gs or the aileron itself? (hinge screws, bell crank, design...) - - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH
I'm trying to get my Piet finished and the time flown off so that I can fly it to Brodhead and then on the OSH with the group this year. I'd say the odd were about 50-50 that I'll be finished in time but I'm working most every evening on it. Last night, I welded up two of the fittings for the engine mount that attach the mount to the fuselage fittings so it's moving along. Depending on how long it takes to get the engine torn down, inspected and put back together, I think I have a shot at it. Jack, if it all comes together, maybe we could meet up somewhere and go in as a flight of two. Matt Paxton **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Aileron travel limit
Date: Jan 23, 2009
Yes. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 6:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron travel limit What seems to be the limiting factor on aileron travel? Is it the stick, legs or the aileron itself? (hinge screws, bell crank, design...) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flying the Piet to Brodhead and OSH
Date: Jan 23, 2009
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Sounds good, Matt. I'll be launching from Smith Mountain Lake, since that is where I base the Piet now. First stop will likely be Beckley, West Virginia. By that point we will have the worst of the mountains behind us. Last year, on the leg between Martinsville VA and Beckley WV, the GPS said I was making 27 knots groundspeed. Here's a picture of typical terrain on that leg. Not a very good place for a forced landing. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Woodflier(at)aol.com

December 29, 2008 - January 23, 2009

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-hg