Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-hm
March 09, 2009 - March 24, 2009
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-hm
March 09, 2009 - March 24, 2009
The front of the rudder (hinged main spar) is 1" x 1"
The trailing edge of the rudder is 1 1/4" x 5/8" (I made mine 1 3/8" vs. 1 1/4"
to have more wood for shaping.)
The sides taper from 1" x 1" to 1" x 5/8".
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233847#233847
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Quinn" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Thanks Glenn, very helpful! I thought the small drawings only related to the
horizontal stab and elevators.
Thanks again,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 7:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
>
>
> There is a little group of cross-section drawings labeled with these
> dimensions and the shape after rounding/rabbet cutting on the right middle
> of location of the empennage page.
>
> The leading edge of the vertical stabilizer is 1"x3/4"
> The back of the vertical stabilizer is 1'x1".
> The bottom vertical stabilizer tapers from 1"x1" to 1"x3/4"
>
> The front of the rudder (hinged main spar) is 1" x 1"
> The trailing edge of the rudder is 1 1/4" x 5/8" (I made mine 1 3/8" vs. 1
> 1/4" to have more wood for shaping.)
> The sides taper from 1" x 1" to 1" x 5/8".
>
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233847#233847
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 09, 2009
It's one of those areas that isn't crystal clear but since they are not given specifically,
those are the dimensions I went with. Pretty sure that's what B.H.P.
meant.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233853#233853
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary fly-in
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Hi Jeff,
I am pretty sure HXF is not in conflict with the NOTAM.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 7, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> >
>
> My original flight plan for 2GA9 to OSH had HXF as the "regroup and
> make final" stop prior to going to OSH. I had not, however,
> considered the impact of the OSH NOTAM arrival procedures.
>
> John, is there a conflict with using HXF in terms of the NOTAM?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>> Juneau gets real busy the Sunday before OSH. I know a lot of people
>> stop there and are treated well, however since there is some
>> strategery involved here I would suggest Hartford (HXF) as an
>> alternative. It is 14.1 nm on the 110 radial from UNU. Runway
>> 18/36 is 2000 x 200 grass with good approaches and 11/29 is just
>> shy of 3000 with useable grass on the North side of the runway.
>> There is 24 hour credit card fuel (100LL and still 93 stinky car
>> gas) and it is home of the Cub Club so there are lots of
>> taildraggers (18 or so Cubs based there) and there would be less
>> congestion than UNU. Either choice would probably be fine but I
>> have a bias to Hartford as that is where I am based. I can do some
>> followup with Steve Krog if anyone is interested. Steve E and
>> Mikee, you used Hartford as the gathering point in 1999 I think?
>>
>> -john-
>
>
> --
> ---
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Subject: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
of possible interest:
http://www.barnstormingmovie.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Subject: 80th Anniversary fly-in
I've flown to OSH twice and both times it was in mass formation. First
time in the Pietenpol, and then last year in the Stinson. I've never flown
the Fiske arrival... Strange but true. In '99 we staged at Hartford, and
last year we staged the Stinson flyin at Watertown. With the exception of
having Frozen Custard within walking distance at Waterford, Hartford would
be my choice again for the piet, if I were to fly it again. Even at only
14 or 15 miles away, it is a difficult thing to get an entire cloud of piet
s together in some sort of order at the landing end of the journey. It is
a good idea to go in groups of 4-5 ships, although I'll never forget being
in a gaggle of airplanes going the same general direction. I thought I was
in a WW1 fighter squadron! In '99 we had one landing mishap that closed t
he airport. Crosswinds blew wake turbulence from a landing DC3 on the par
allel runway and slammed a piet into the ground, causing a gear collapse an
d prop strike. No injuries, but sorrowful end for one fellow pietenpoller.
It could have been avoided if we had more separation smaller groups wou
ld have helped.
Hartford is a great airport with a grass runway, close to hotels too.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary fly-in
Juneau gets real busy the Sunday before OSH. I know a lot of people stop th
ere and are treated well, however since there is some strategery involved h
ere I would suggest Hartford (HXF) as an alternative. It is 14.1 nm on the
110 radial from UNU. Runway 18/36 is 2000 x 200 grass with good approaches
and 11/29 is just shy of 3000 with useable grass on the North side of the
runway. There is 24 hour credit card fuel (100LL and still 93 stinky car ga
s) and it is home of the Cub Club so there are lots of taildraggers (18 or
so Cubs based there) and there would be less congestion than UNU. Either ch
oice would probably be fine but I have a bias to Hartford as that is where
I am based. I can do some followup with Steve Krog if anyone is interested.
Steve E and Mikee, you used Hartford as the gathering point in 1999 I thin
k?
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 6, 2009, at 9:34 PM, gcardinal wrote:
Thanks for posting the link Mike.
Oshkosh is only 4 1/2 months away and here is how things are shaping up for
this years 80th anniversary:
Brodhead is being scheduled and promoted as Thursday through Saturday, July
23 - 25.
On Sunday, July 26th we depart Brodhead and fly to an airport close to Oshk
osh to make arrival arrangements with OSH tower. Juneau, WI (UNU) is lookin
g like a strong possibility because it is close and it is a straight flight
up highway 26 to Oshkosh.
Small groups of 4 - 5 planes, with a radio equipped flight leader, will dep
art UNU for Oshkosh via the Fisk arrival route.
Tailskid equipped Pietenpols will use the ultralight arrival procedure.
The 2009 Oshkosh NOTAM will be available in April or May. A link will be po
sted when it becomes available.
Some questions for everyone:
1. Who is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh?
2. Who is radio equipped and willing to act as a group leader on the flight
to OSH?
3. Who is planning to drive from Brodhead to OSH and would be willing to ha
ul camping gear and baggage?
If you know someone with a Pietenpol who isn't on this list please encourag
e them to consider attending.
Don Emch - can you contact Frank Pavliga to see if he is willing to attend?
John Hoffman or Roman Bukolt - you guys live in the area, what can you tell
us about the Juneau airport? Most importantly, is the grass adjacent to th
e runways suitable for landing during the summer months?
This should be enough to get the conversations started.
If anyone wants to contact me directly I can be reached at 612 721-6235 eve
nings or gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Ideas and suggestions are encouraged.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]<mailto:michael
.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 7:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: If you are flying into OSH.....read this when you
get a chance
For those of you who are planning to fly into Oshkosh for the 80th Annivers
ary gathering you've read the notes in Doc Mosher's paper BPAN Newsletter p
enned by Bill Rewey but here is another great introduction/familiarization
article entitled: Understanding Air Traffic Control at EAA AirVenture Oshk
osh.
To read more: http://www.airventure.org/atc/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Date: Mar 09, 2009
From: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com>
Cool! Another movie to bore the wife with! She suffered through "Sink
the Bismarck" with me last night. Poor thing - there was not a love
story in sight.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
of possible interest:
http://www.barnstormingmovie.com/
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender
immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p
rohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
orsk - Portuguese
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Very cool.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233900#233900
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Not a love story but a flying movie
http://www.fancast.com/movies/633-Squadron/14175/840915147/633-Squadron:-
Full-Length/videos?autoPlay=true
Michael in snowy Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: H RULE
Sink the Bismark is a love story;it's all about this plane(string bag)
that had a thing for this bad boat called Bismark and put one in her
tail section that broke her rudder.Now how much more romantic can that
be eh?!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Date: Mar 09, 2009
This is one of my favorite airplane movies....Kind of funny....WW11
British woman falls for American Fly boy based in Britian. You can click
on the link and watch if you are bored.....:)
http://www.fancast.com/movies/633-Squadron/14175/840915147/633-Squadron:
-Full-Length/videos?autoPlay=true
----- Original Message -----
From: H RULE <mailto:harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Sink the Bismark is a love story;it's all about this
plane(string bag) that had a thing for this bad boat called Bismark and
put one in her tail section that broke her rudder.Now how much more
romantic can that be eh?!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 09, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Where is the Dirkesn International Airport, or is this intentionally
left unsaid? ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Just finished 633 squadron. I enjoyed it. However, I find it interesting that the
Mosquito must have had the aelerons attached so that they worked opposite of
any plane I have been in. If the pilot input a right roll then the plane rolled
left. and vice versa. The only time they seemed to respond correctly was when
a navigator pulled the dead pilot off of the yoke and rolled the plane into
the target! It also did it when a pilot of a mosquito on fire rolled into the
target.
Also I had no Idea that the ME 108 Taifun (a four seat liaison plane related to
the ME 109 fighter) was fast enough to catch a Mosquito and could maneuver like
a fighter.
My grandson and I watched it togather and It held his interest and mine. So I was
pretty Happy.
Blue Skies and thanks for the link.
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Date: Monday, March 9, 2009 14:52
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
> This is one of my favorite airplane movies....Kind of funny....WW11
> British woman falls for American Fly boy based in Britian. You can
> clickon the link and watch if you are bored.....:)
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.fancast.com/movies/633-Squadron/14175/840915147/633-
> Squadron:-Full-Length/videos?autoPlay=true
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: H RULE <mailto:harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
>
>
>
> Sink the Bismark is a love story;it's all about this
> plane(string bag) that had a thing for this bad boat called Bismark and
> put one in her tail section that broke her rudder.Now how much more
> romantic can that be eh?!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Date: Mar 10, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Where is Dirksen International?
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 09, 2009
As Andrew King would say....
"somewhere near the Wabash River..."
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233990#233990
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0681_120.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Still nothing in the body of your letters 'airlion(at)bellsouth.net';you still have
a problem there somewhere.
________________________________
From: "airlion(at)bellsouth.net" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:10:53 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
>>>Still nothing in the body of your letters 'airlion(at)bellsouth.net';you
still have a problem there somewhere.
I'm not sure exactly what is going on with "airlion"'s email either. His
messages come in blank. However, if your e-mail client supports viewing
the source (i.e. not formatted for HTML) the text is actually there to
view.
Tom Stinemetze
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Trying to get ahold of a member
Date: Mar 10, 2009
This number worked last fall: 573-645-0534
Perry Rhoads
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:23 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trying to get ahold of a member
Hello All,
I am trying to contact Chet Hartley from this list. If anyone knows a
phone number or address please advise. I have emailed a couple of times
with no luck. Thanks.
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2009
Subject: Re: Piet Fly-in to OSH
Group, I'm hoping to have my Piet ready to fly to Brodhead and then to OSH
this year. Depends on when my engine builder finishes the engine, and how
quickly I can get the bird covered. And that I can get the 40 hours flown off
without incident or need for major rework.
I've flown into the EAA convention (still have a problem calling it
AirVenture.. sounds like something sold on late-night TV..) dozens of times, mostly
up the Fisk arrival but a few times the IFR approach over Lake Michigan to Rwy
27. It's not difficult but it requires your full concentration on
maintaining spacing and watching for merging traffic, especially near Ripon where
everyone is jockeying to line up on the railroad track.
The NOTAM calls for 90 kts flying up the tracks, which will never work for
this group. I don't remember a special arrival for ultralights but that would
probably work better if the Piets could use it.
I'll also second what some have said about Hartford. I got weathered in
there in 1995 and the folks could not have been more helpful. I remember a great
restaurant/bar downtown too, although not as close as the restaurants at
Watertown. Folks are nice at Juneau/Dodge County too but I agreee with what
someone said about it being crowded the Sunday before the show opens.
I sure hope the Piet is ready, but if not, we'll still be flying up in our
Bellanca. All Pieters are invited up to North 40, probably in the vicinity of
Row 520, for liquid refreshments once the airplanes are tied down. Look for
the large tarps out on the end of the row closest to Rwy 9-27.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Date: Mar 10, 2009
POSSIBLE interest???? POSSIBLE? How could ANYONE watch that and NOT
get excited????
I've never seen or heard anything that so completely explains why I'm
building a Pietenpol...
>From now on, if anyone asks why I'm building a Piet...I'll just say
"Here, watch this...."
WOW.....
"You guys oughta' stop by more often"
"Well, we'll try...."
Barnstorming
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming
documentary
of possible interest:
http://www.barnstormingmovie.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 10, 2009
What Jim said. [Laughing]
jim_markle - POSSIBLE interest???? POSSIBLE? How could ANYONE watch that and
NOT get excited????
I've never seen or heard anything that so completely explains why I'm building
a Pietenpol...
From now on, if anyone asks why I'm building a Piet...I'll just say "Here, watch
this...."
WOW.....
"You guys oughta' stop by more often"
"Well, we'll try...."
Barnstorming
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234067#234067
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2009
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
I could find no better reason to: buy, build own or fly a Piet!
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 10, 2009
Subject: in response to Jim M: documentary
POSSIBLE interest???? POSSIBLE? How could ANYONE watch that and NOT get e
xcited????
"Well normally I like to see a little more enthusiasm, but in your case I'l
l make and exception. What's your name son ?"
"Scooter"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Where is Dirksen International?
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 10, 2009
The Dirksen family's farm is near Winchester, IN, which is maybe 50 miles or so
from Dayton. They are a really fantastic family with a dairy farm. They are
true dairy farmers in every sense. Andrew and Frank could not have dropped in
on a better family to start that whole annual thing.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234093#234093
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 10, 2009
Subject: Re: in response to Jim M: documentary
That is true, there have been other movies made and maybe some good ones
too, however as I may quote and one of our own who said"All of lives situations
can be addressed with lines taken from the The Great Waldo Pepper" credited
to our own Mr. John Hoffman.
Truer words have never been spoken
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2009
Subject: Re: Where is Dirksen International?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
This appears to be the place:
1864 W 300 N, Winchester, IN 47394
Ryan
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Don Emch wrote:
>
> The Dirksen family's farm is near Winchester, IN, which is maybe 50 miles
> or so from Dayton. They are a really fantastic family with a dairy farm.
> They are true dairy farmers in every sense. Andrew and Frank could not
> have dropped in on a better family to start that whole annual thing.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: Mar 10, 2009
After viewing the trailer of this film, a couple of thoughts come to mind. First
off, the Pietenpol airplane is a catalyst for wonderful things to happen.
This is a great example, Brodhead is another. Secondly, this could only happen
in the rural midwest. I know, I know, other areas have their moments, but here
in the midwest, there are ALOT of these moments and this is one of them.
After getting the usual daily dose of the crap coming out of New York or Washington
D.C., this is a much needed breath of fresh air and I'm going to savor
this for a while. And yeah, this IS the reason to build a Piet.
Paul N. Peckham
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234116#234116
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 10, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
>> Secondly, this could only happen in the rural midwest.
Paul:
Not your problem I know but it has always bugged me that Kansas (which is
about as center of the country as you can get) is well West of the
"Midwest" but nowhere near the real "West" which is California, etc. I
guess when Horace Greely said "Go West Young Man.", he was talking about
Chicago.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: in response to Jim M: documentary
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: Mar 10, 2009
Since we are quoting aviation films, allow me.........
"Is he all right in that condition?" (the pilot is hungover)
"Hey don't worry. He can fly in any condition"
-High Road to China
Paul N. Peckham
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234121#234121
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Making own graphics
For those of you who have your own design graphics on your plane...did you make
them yourself? I have my design ready and I am curious if I can make them myself
at home. I would hope it is just a matter of buying the right type of "paper"
to print on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Frank Pavliga's Piet/ Barnstorming documentary
Date: Mar 11, 2009
Here in Texas=2C we consider the midwest to be the area around
San Angelo. When someone here says "go west"=2C they mean
El Paso. I won't tell you what they think the mideast is=2C other
than a constant mess.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Jean Fly-in
Date: Mar 11, 2009
Just a reminder,
The 6th Annual Alternative Engine Round-Up and
Experimental Aircraft Fly-in, is about 2.5 weeks away.
Jean, Nevada (just south of Vegas) March 27-29
http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html
Thanks!
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2009
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Michael,
Mike C., Jack P., Oscar, and I'm sure others have had their graphics
produced from vinyl by a company out of Michigan called "AvGrafix":
http://www.avgrafix.com/index.html
There are pics of Mike and Jack's Piets under the "Custom Graphics" section
of the site. I'm sure they can provide more details about cost. I can't
recall having heard about any particular method for printing graphics from a
consumer inkjet printer that would produce something suitable for this
application. Either way, if you could produce something on your home printer
it would have to be approximately 8" tall or smaller, and unless you could
find media on a roll it could be no wider than approximately 10.5"....
Ryan
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> For those of you who have your own design graphics on your plane...did you
> make them yourself? I have my design ready and I am curious if I can make
> them myself at home. I would hope it is just a matter of buying the right
> type of "paper" to print on.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 11, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
I am aware of AvGrafix as well as a ton of others who CAN do it, that is wh
y I asked if anyone made there own. I have found some ink jet compatible vi
nyl- that is self adhesive and waterproof for exterior use. It is recomme
nded that this get covered with a UV laminate after application. Check it:
http://www.papilio.com/inkjet%20waterproof%20adhesive%20film%20media.html
-
--- On Wed, 3/11/09, Ryan Mueller wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making own graphics
Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 6:20 PM
Michael,
Mike C., Jack P., Oscar, and I'm sure others have had their graphics produc
ed from vinyl by a company out of Michigan called "AvGrafix":
http://www.avgrafix.com/index.html
There are pics of Mike and Jack's Piets under the "Custom Graphics" section
of the site. I'm sure they can provide more details about cost. I can't re
call having heard about any particular method for printing graphics from a
consumer inkjet printer that would produce something suitable for this appl
ication. Either way, if you could produce something on your home printer it
would have to be approximately 8" tall or smaller, and unless you could fi
nd media on a roll it could be no wider than approximately 10.5"....
Ryan
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Michael Perez
wrote:
For those of you who have your own design graphics on your plane...did you
make them yourself? I have my design ready and I am curious if I can make t
hem myself at home. I would hope it is just a matter of buying the right ty
pe of "paper" to print on.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
From: "JimP" <j.petersen32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 11, 2009
Glenn and Jim Q., along the same note:
I've been trying to figure out how to fair the 3/16" x 1/2" strips into the trailing
edges. The glue "ledge" in the trailing edge is only 1/16" deep. It seems
like I will need to remove too much material from the strips (please see attached
sketch).
I'm curious how others have handled this situation?
JimP.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234304#234304
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_trailing_edge_question_423.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
Date: Mar 11, 2009
Jim,
Just clamp the pieces down and sand or file back about 3 or 4". Those pieces
have little to do with strength, and are mostly about shape.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JimP
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
Glenn and Jim Q., along the same note:
I've been trying to figure out how to fair the 3/16" x 1/2" strips into the
trailing edges. The glue "ledge" in the trailing edge is only 1/16" deep.
It seems like I will need to remove too much material from the strips
(please see attached sketch).
I'm curious how others have handled this situation?
JimP.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234304#234304
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_trailing_edge_question_423.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 11, 2009
I agree with you and had the same concerns. I cut my rabbet 1/8" deep which helps
sink the capstrip pieces. Also, I put spacers between the capstrips so if
it is weakened slightly at the very tip, the spacers (pieces of capstrip keeping
the fore/aft pieces from squeezing together during rib stitching) add a bit
of strength. It seems adequately strong despite the thinning of the tips at
the points where the meet the spars they attach to. I'm interested in hearing
what others might say.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234308#234308
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
Date: Mar 11, 2009
On NX18235 it was done exactly as your drawing shows. No problems after 150
hours.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "JimP" <j.petersen32(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
>
> Glenn and Jim Q., along the same note:
> I've been trying to figure out how to fair the 3/16" x 1/2" strips into
> the trailing edges. The glue "ledge" in the trailing edge is only 1/16"
> deep. It seems like I will need to remove too much material from the
> strips (please see attached sketch).
> I'm curious how others have handled this situation?
> JimP.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234304#234304
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_trailing_edge_question_423.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Grentzer" <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Emailing: rudder fairing 003
Date: Mar 12, 2009
Here's how I did my rudder, I cut the capstrip down so it fit flush with
the outside of the trailing edge and then T-88ed wood blocks to the
trailing edge and full thickness of the capstrip. The same could be done
with the vert. stab. but I just faired mine in. Ed G.
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
rudder fairing 003
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Barnstorming
Just to add additional exuberance to this thread, I attended the barnstormi
ng tour to the farm a couple of years ago and can't wait for the DVD. There
is so much "real America" to be found just being there that I can't imagin
e it coming through on a recorded medium. I hope that the pro's can pull it
off, I never could.
-
I have also been blessed over the years flying around to farm fields and gr
ass strips in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky and Wisconsin and my heart
is full of warmth in the knowledge that America still exists in massive dos
es that you will NEVER see or hear about in the media.-People are eager t
o meet you and share everything from a ride to town for gas to a spare bedr
oom for the night and meals and making you wait for some distant relative t
hat is a Model "A" enthusiast. I even got held up once for the local newspa
per editor to come to the strip so he could take some pictures and get some
personal info for his next week's paper! Nice, honest, open, friendly and
caring people that don't-give a hoot-in-hell what Brittney Spears-or Sn
oop Dog are doing this week. It's paradise!!
-
Ditto to Jim Markle's post about why some of us fly Pietenpols. To those of
you building I will emphasize once more; don't spend any more of your valu
able life modifying or doing involved engineering design changes, get that
sucker put together safely and-fly out to find your own adventures. They
are still "out there" waiting for you and you will get all tingly just lyin
g in bed-on a cold winters-night thanking God for your turn on earth to
experience them.
-
Sorry.................guess I still get a little carried away talking about
the real America and Piets.
-
Can't wait for July!! Y'all come and we'll exchange tales.
-
Larry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Barnstorming
Date: Mar 12, 2009
Brittney and Snoop Who??
Gene in Western Tennessee (really in the country)
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams
To: Pietlist
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Barnstorming
Just to add additional exuberance to this thread, I attended the
barnstorming tour to the farm a couple of years ago and can't wait for
the DVD. There is so much "real America" to be found just being there
that I can't imagine it coming through on a recorded medium. I hope that
the pro's can pull it off, I never could.
I have also been blessed over the years flying around to farm
fields and grass strips in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky and
Wisconsin and my heart is full of warmth in the knowledge that America
still exists in massive doses that you will NEVER see or hear about in
the media. People are eager to meet you and share everything from a ride
to town for gas to a spare bedroom for the night and meals and making
you wait for some distant relative that is a Model "A" enthusiast. I
even got held up once for the local newspaper editor to come to the
strip so he could take some pictures and get some personal info for his
next week's paper! Nice, honest, open, friendly and caring people that
don't give a hoot-in-hell what Brittney Spears or Snoop Dog are doing
this week. It's paradise!!
Ditto to Jim Markle's post about why some of us fly Pietenpols.
To those of you building I will emphasize once more; don't spend any
more of your valuable life modifying or doing involved engineering
design changes, get that sucker put together safely and fly out to find
your own adventures. They are still "out there" waiting for you and you
will get all tingly just lying in bed on a cold winters night thanking
God for your turn on earth to experience them.
Sorry.................guess I still get a little carried away
talking about the real America and Piets.
Can't wait for July!! Y'all come and we'll exchange tales.
Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 12, 2009
From: dewey davenport <onedgerc(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Barnstorming
Guys
-
This is my first post on this form. I am from the Dayton Ohio area and toda
y I attended the Reelstuff film festival. I watched the first public viewin
g of Barnstorming. This Film was done on a very low budget of a few guys th
at meet up in a small town in Indiana and they Barnstorm for the weekend. I
must say that this film was truly a testament to what American was and can
be. For all you Aviators out there, you will appreciate what this film bri
ngs out on our lives. It truly shows the what we are thinking while we are
out and about.
-
For me, I am a professional pilot, or a pilot that makes a living.. But whe
n I'm off of work I can't wait to get in my Champ and putt around at 500-80
0 feet so I can see and feel earth. This film will show you and also make y
ou feel that your part of it. I'm not sure when they will have the next vie
wing of the film, but it is a must see.
-
My Piet should be done in a few years!!!!
-
Dewey D
--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Lawrence Williams wrote:
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Barnstorming
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 6:46 PM
Just to add additional exuberance to this thread, I attended the barnstormi
ng tour to the farm a couple of years ago and can't wait for the DVD. There
is so much "real America" to be found just being there that I can't imagin
e it coming through on a recorded medium. I hope that the pro's can pull it
off, I never could.
-
I have also been blessed over the years flying around to farm fields and gr
ass strips in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky and Wisconsin and my heart
is full of warmth in the knowledge that America still exists in massive dos
es that you will NEVER see or hear about in the media.-People are eager t
o meet you and share everything from a ride to town for gas to a spare bedr
oom for the night and meals and making you wait for some distant relative t
hat is a Model "A" enthusiast. I even got held up once for the local newspa
per editor to come to the strip so he could take some pictures and get some
personal info for his next week's paper! Nice, honest, open, friendly and
caring people that don't-give a hoot-in-hell what Brittney Spears-or Sn
oop Dog are doing this week. It's paradise!!
-
Ditto to Jim Markle's post about why some of us fly Pietenpols. To those of
you building I will emphasize once more; don't spend any more of your valu
able life modifying or doing involved engineering design changes, get that
sucker put together safely and-fly out to find your own adventures. They
are still "out there" waiting for you and you will get all tingly just lyin
g in bed-on a cold winters-night thanking God for your turn on earth to
experience them.
-
Sorry.................guess I still get a little carried away talking about
the real America and Piets.
-
Can't wait for July!! Y'all come and we'll exchange tales.
-
Larry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vertical stab and rudder dimensions
From: "JimP" <j.petersen32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 12, 2009
Thank you all for your help! Jim P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234404#234404
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: possible deal on a Piet
Date: Mar 12, 2009
If anyone is looking for a deal on a Piet, I saw one for sale on
Barnstormers last night. It was posted on March 9 and is located in
McGregor, Mn. The wing has been removed for storage and it hasn't flown
in 4+ years and only has one hour of flight time. I spoke with the
owner last night. His father and a friend built it and he was to do the
flight testing.
We talked about w/b and the way it was set up and it sounds to me like
he didn't have the wing properly set up with washout and tail balanced
right. Anyway, it only flew once and I got the feeling it scared him a
bit. The asking price is $8500 and that is with an A-65 with 1 hr SMOH.
The plane is about 150 mi north of Minneapolis at a small grass strip.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Most graphics shops use the same equipment/material. A long time ago I worked
for Gerber Scientific, a leading mfgr of sign making equipment and dealt with
a lot of their customers across the country. There is quite a bit of variance
in what sign shops charge, some due to materials, mostly due to markup. Any
shop that caters specifically to aviation is likely to charge more just because
of the association. The alternative which may or may not be considered, is
to stencil your design and hand paint for a real period look. It might not be
as perfect as a computer generated image but that imperfection might just be
the look you are going for.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234439#234439
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
Date: Mar 13, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Glenn,
Your post just triggered an "ah ha" moment for me. I have a killer logo in mind
and was going to approach one of those graphics places until I just read your
post. The hand-painted lettering will look far and away better and more period
authentic. THANKS!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
NX292DH
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Thomas <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:49 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Making own graphics
Most graphics shops use the same equipment/material. A long time ago I worked
for Gerber Scientific, a leading mfgr of sign making equipment and dealt with a
lot of their customers across the country. There is quite a bit of variance in
what sign shops charge, some due to materials, mostly due to markup. Any shop
that caters specifically to aviation is likely to charge more just because of
the association. The alternative which may or may not be considered, is to
stencil your design and hand paint for a real period look. It might not be as
perfect as a computer generated image but that imperfection might just be the
look you are going for.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234439#234439
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
That is an excellent point Glenn. I have been thinking of that very thing as well.
I am worried that a vinyl "decal" of any sort just won't look the way I would
like. So, I thought about using my computer and Photo Shop to make the stencils
and then hand paint them on...just as you talked about. This will give me
my own graphics, the look and the colors I want. (in theory) Still just some
thoughts for now, but when I am in between epoxy and fabrication, I look ahead
and fiddle with such things.
--- On Fri, 3/13/09, Glenn Thomas wrote:
From: Glenn Thomas <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Making own graphics
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 12:49 PM
Most graphics shops use the same equipment/material. A long time ago I worked
for Gerber Scientific, a leading mfgr of sign making equipment and dealt with a
lot of their customers across the country. There is quite a bit of variance in
what sign shops charge, some due to materials, mostly due to markup. Any shop
that caters specifically to aviation is likely to charge more just because of
the association. The alternative which may or may not be considered, is to
stencil your design and hand paint for a real period look. It might not be as
perfect as a computer generated image but that imperfection might just be the
look you are going for.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234439#234439
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 13, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
Copy that Dan. If you have a way to make the stencils, you can do anything you
wish, at home, when it is convenient for you. You have total control of color,
sheen, size, etc. Looks like this will be what I will be doing as well...when
I get there.
--- On Fri, 3/13/09, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Making own graphics
Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 1:07 PM
Glenn,
Your post just triggered an "ah ha" moment for me. I have a killer logo in mind
and was going to approach one of those graphics places until I just read your
post. The hand-painted lettering will look far and away better and more period
authentic. THANKS!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
NX292DH
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Thomas <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:49 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Making own graphics
Most graphics shops use the same equipment/material. A long time ago I worked
for Gerber Scientific, a leading mfgr of sign making equipment and dealt with a
lot of their customers across the country. There is quite a bit of variance in
what sign shops charge, some due to materials, mostly due to markup. Any shop
that caters specifically to aviation is likely to charge more just because of
the association. The alternative which may or may not be considered, is to
stencil your design and hand paint for a real period look. It might not be as
perfect as a computer generated image but that imperfection might just be the
look you are going for.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234439#234439
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Here's another idea for you guys that want to paint with a stencil. You can send
your graphic to a sign shop and they can run paper through their plotter with
something called a pounce wheel instead of the usual vinyl cutting knife.
This punches perforations into the paper and makes for a really simple to use
stencil. Just tape to the surface and hit with some contrasting spray paint and
there are your coloring book lines. The graphic shop shouldn't charge you
much because the paper costs them next to nothing, you didn't need their artistic
services, and now they know you know all their secrets. (Well, they will
probably still find a way to gouge you but it would be interesting to find out
how it changes the price when shopping)
Graphic shops will need the image sent to them in a specific vector format to be
compatible with their software and they may charge you for cleaning it up and/or
converting it to their format. This is likely the opportunity they will
use to gouge you. Do your homework, convert it to their format yourself and give
them as little work to do as possible and it shouldn't cost much (but they
won't like you either). Now the quality of the sign doesn't matter and just
go for the place that can do it the cheapest.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234453#234453
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Subject: Barnstorming
Nice, honest, open, friendly
>and caring people that don'tgive a hoot-in-hell what Brittney
>Spearsor Snoop Dog are doing this week. It's paradise!!
Great post Larry Williams and GREAT line above. I couldn't agree more
with all you said and especially regarding total apathy towards what is
happening in Hollywood.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Waldo Pepper DVD
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Back when Waldo was a daily hot topic, someone said they had some "extras"
they were going to sell affordably. If that ever came to pass, would the
gentleman contact me because I still can't seem to find one.
Thanks,
Douwe
finishing cockpits, hooking up instruments, getting ready to paint fuse.
90% done, 90% left to go!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Subject: 59 of them for sale on Amazon right now-- The Great Waldo
Pepper
Douwe, hope this helps. 25 of them for $15 or $13 each.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The+Great+Waldo+Pepper
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Waldo Pepper DVD
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Douwe,
I have the vid If you'd like it. No charge.
Kind of annoys me, I sent it to someone on this group by snail mail, and
they didn't acknowledge it. Even when I emailed to see if they got it,,,no
response.
People stink.
PS let me know if you want it, and give me a snail mail address.
email me here,,,
wbeevans(at)verizon.net
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper DVD
>
>
> Back when Waldo was a daily hot topic, someone said they had some "extras"
> they were going to sell affordably. If that ever came to pass, would the
> gentleman contact me because I still can't seem to find one.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Douwe
>
> finishing cockpits, hooking up instruments, getting ready to paint fuse.
> 90% done, 90% left to go!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
Date: Mar 13, 2009
Pounce your own. Go to a sewing shop ( or your mother)
and get a pounce wheel. The traditional way is to
" pounce" chalk dust in a bag through the holes..
If you choose a wheel with big enough spikes you can
probably spray through the holes.
Since you're going DIY you might as well go all the way.
Clif
>
>
> Here's another idea for you guys that want to paint with a stencil. You
> can send your graphic to a sign shop and they can run paper through their
> plotter with something called a pounce wheel instead of the usual vinyl
> cutting knife. >
> --------
> Glenn Thomas
> N?????
> http://www.flyingwood.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234453#234453
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:00:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Waldo Pepper DVD
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Walt
Mine got damaged I could use a new one. Please advise.
Thanks
John
------Original Message------
From: walt
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mar 13, 2009 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper DVD
Douwe,
I have the vid If you'd like it. No charge.
Kind of annoys me, I sent it to someone on this group by snail mail, and
they didn't acknowledge it. Even when I emailed to see if they got it,,,no
response.
People stink.
PS let me know if you want it, and give me a snail mail address.
email me here,,,
wbeevans(at)verizon.net
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper DVD
>
>
> Back when Waldo was a daily hot topic, someone said they had some "extras"
> they were going to sell affordably. If that ever came to pass, would the
> gentleman contact me because I still can't seem to find one.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Douwe
>
> finishing cockpits, hooking up instruments, getting ready to paint fuse.
> 90% done, 90% left to go!
>
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Do you know if they make a hand type thing, like a pizza cutter style pounce wheel?
If they do I imagine they would be fairly cheap, you could lay your graphic
out on a table over a big piece of paper and just trace the lines with the
pizza cutter pounce wheel pressing the spikes through your graphic and the paper
underneath. You're right. The sign guys do use chalk. I forgot.
I'm not a sign guy.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234546#234546
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Nevermind. I Googled it and found one instantly. This kit contains the pizza
cutter pounce wheel, the chalk, and a pounce pad and a description of how it all
works. I imagine I will use this some day so might just buy one of these now
and have it to play with.
Way too far from the end to even think about tormenting myself with logos.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234547#234547
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2009
I was thinking a bit more high tech actually. More like a power point projector
or transparency to project the image against the Piet. Then its paint by numbers.
The good part is only drawing and the projection size can be adjusted to
taste and or style. No contamination of the work area by chalk or other foreign
matter.
John
------Original Message------
From: Glenn Thomas
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mar 14, 2009 10:13 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Making own graphics
Nevermind. I Googled it and found one instantly. This kit contains the pizza
cutter pounce wheel, the chalk, and a pounce pad and a description of how it all
works. I imagine I will use this some day so might just buy one of these now
and have it to play with.
Way too far from the end to even think about tormenting myself with logos.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234547#234547
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Making own graphics
From: "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: Mar 14, 2009
I met a guy down in TN who proclaimed that he is in the Guiness Book of World Records
for making the world's largest sign. He did it the way you describe with
a projector and scaffolding on a huge wall.
...but let's face it, these aren't structural glue joints. I think chalk and paint
get along just fine.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234549#234549
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Just stumbled across a link on the Flybaby website that is likely of
interest to Pietenpol builders who are using traditional aircraft
engines for their powerplants. This site has lots of manuals for
Continental and Lycoming engines, as well as accessories and lots of
other good stuff. And they're all free downloads. Here's the link:
http://www.bomar.biz/download.php
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Bill, I'll go one step further, I think Pietenpol builders and flyers
are missing out if they don't use the FlyBaby site. Good info thru out.
Gene in wet Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Just stumbled across a link on the Flybaby website that is likely of
interest to Pietenpol builders who are using traditional aircraft
engines for their powerplants. This site has lots of manuals for
Continental and Lycoming engines, as well as accessories and lots of
other good stuff. And they're all free downloads. Here's the link:
http://www.bomar.biz/download.php
Bill C.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
wonderful resource!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 2 Projects for sale
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Greetings all,
I have decided to attempt selling my two projects because of a job
change and lack of time/space. I just put it on Craigslist locally,
but wanted to let the list know also before doing a Barnstormers
listing.
Pictures and info can be found at
http://mykitplane.com/planes/photoGalleryIndividualList.cfm?PeopleID=77&FirstName=Kirk&LastName=Huizenga
Inventory - http://mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/Kirk-Piet-Inventory.xlsx
(this doesn't have everything) I also need to get all my Corvair
case numbers listed
http://aircamperman.wordpress.com/
Craigslist - http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/rvs/1075147858.html
You are all welcome to ask any questions - here is some generic info
> I am a member of the the Matronics Piet list and have been
> a builder for about 8 years. I currently own 2 Aircamper
> projects - #1 was built in the 80's, flew for a while
> and then donated to a aviation tech school. It was owned by
> the the Air National Guard Museum at MSP for a while and I
> bought it from the EAA Chapter 21 (Lake Elmo) in '00 or
> '01 as a parts project and have worked on it since then.
> #2 was purchased in '06 from Carl L who used to be on
> the Piet list. #1 has very good craftsmanship from the
> first builder (named Hans Meyer of MN) and hopefully me. #2
> needs more work and doesn't have great craftsmanship
> (lots of good modifiable parts though).
>
> I used to be a teacher and used these planes in my
> classroom- now I'm a pastor and haven't been able to
> put much time into building.
>
> I have pretty much all you would need to complete 1.5
> planes - hardware, instruments, 5+ Corvair engine cores (of
> varying usability in a plane) and a load of parts to go with
> them. I am working on an inventory right now.
Thanks
Kirk
St Paul, MN
651-774-5916
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Has anyone ever written a "How To" manual for the Pietenpol Air Camper? Also
I am looking for a set of Aerial Pietenpol plans if anyone knows how or
where please contact me off line.
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto(at)alaska.net
Email:foto(at)alaska.net
www.alaskafoto.com <http://www.alaskafoto.com/>
www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net <http://www.alaskasportpilotcenter.net/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Just stumbled across a link on the Flybaby website that is likely of
interest to Pietenpol builders who are using traditional aircraft engines
for their powerplants. This site has lots of manuals for Continental and
Lycoming engines, as well as accessories and lots of other good stuff. And
they're all free downloads. Here's the link:
http://www.bomar.biz/download.php
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Stuck Value
Date: Mar 14, 2009
Piets with the Model A engine, what is everyone using to keep values
from sticking?
920Y was airborne today for one hour after about 4 hours working to
unstick a exhaust value. I run 100LL and have been adding Marvel Mistery
oil in the fuel, but the question is how much?
Sure glad to see spring coming.
Chet
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2009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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Hay Field fly-in Winchester IN
Group, when is the IN hayfield fly-in?- Andrew King told me to stop by la
st year at Brodhead if I wanted to see what it is all about.- I really wa
nt to get the time off of work and show up.- It looks like a really old f
asion good time.- It is only a couple hour flight from here I believe.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 14, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Airport is in trouble!!
if (typeof YAHOO == "undefined") {
var YAHOO = {};
}
YAHOO.Shortcuts = YAHOO.Shortcuts || {};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.sensitivityType = ["sensitive_news_terms"];
YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_id = 0;
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_type = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_title = "Airport is in trouble!";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_publish_date = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_author = "aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_url = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_tags = "";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.document_language = "english";
YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = {
"lw_1237087091_0": {
"text": "Shad",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 323,
"endchar": 326,
"start": 323,
"end": 326,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.223415,
"relScore": 2.54952,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "Shad",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "To all recieving this email, My name is Shad Bell, and this e
mail is sent to all aviation enthusiast",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
},
"lw_1237087091_1": {
"text": "grass airport community",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 558,
"endchar": 580,
"start": 558,
"end": 580,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.477134,
"relScore": 6.14993,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "to all aviation enthusiast I know. I live on a grass airport c
ommunity in central Ohio and the power company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op
",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
},
"lw_1237087091_2": {
"text": "power company",
"extended": 0,
"startchar": 664,
"endchar": 676,
"start": 664,
"end": 676,
"extendedFrom": "",
"predictedCategory": "",
"predictionProbability": "0",
"weight": 0.224661,
"relScore": 3.36795,
"type": ["shortcuts:/concept"],
"category": ["CONCEPT"],
"wikiId": "Power_Company",
"relatedWikiIds": [],
"relatedEntities": [],
"showOnClick": [],
"context": "on a grass airport community in central Ohio and the power comp
any (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power",
"metaData": {
"visible": "false"
}
}
};
YAHOO.Shortcuts.headerID = "bb98b98d7fe6a460412837bce46cdf6c";
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation enthusiast I k
now.- I live on a grass airport community in central Ohio-and the power
company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines
directly over the top of the runway thresh hold.- After being notified of
this problem by the airport (runway) owner , I believe he said other than
right of way by the township there is no easement yet for the side of my pr
operty or the runway ( I live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to t
he side street).- This will effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from
3000 to 2000 ft.- With no warning I have survey steaks and pins driven in
my yard and back accross the runway.- To all of you who have any experia
nce with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I am looking for advise on stopin
g the power company from destroying this airport.- Eventually someone is
going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70 ft above a runway here,
(or nobody will be able to fly out of here anymore) .- Is there any hope
of stoping this from happening.- Should I contact EAA, and can they help
, AOPA?- This airport has been here for 30+ years and now it looks like s
ome a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad, and thanks for p
aying your electric bill on time every month.- Please feel free to let me
know any and all options we can fight this with.
-
Sincerly, Shad Bell
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Shad,
Contacting both EAA and AOPA certainly cannot hurt. I don't know offhand who
at EAA you would contact. If nothing else, try the general switchboard and
see if they know who to put you in touch with regarding airport advocacy (if
there is such a person).
AOPA has numerous Regional Affairs representatives. Ohio falls under the
"Eastern Region", and the listed rep for the Eastern Region is a gentleman
by the name of Gregory Winton. The contact info listed for him is an email
address: greg.winton(at)aopa.org. Based on what I see on AOPA Online, that
would seem to be the most logical initial point-of-contact that I could
find.
Good luck fighting the good fight!
Ryan
On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:19 PM, shad bell wrote:
> To all recieving this email,
> My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation enthusiast I
> know. I live on a grass airport community in central Ohio and the power
> company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines
> directly over the top of the runway thresh hold. After being notified of
> this problem by the airport (runway) owner , I believe he said other than
> right of way by the township there is no easement yet for the side of my
> property or the runway ( I live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to
> the side street). This will effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from
> 3000 to 2000 ft. With no warning I have survey steaks and pins driven in my
> yard and back accross the runway. To all of you who have any experiance
> with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I am looking for advise on stoping the
> power company from destroying this airport. Eventually someone is going to
> get killed from hitting a electric line 70 ft above a runway here, (or
> nobody will be able to fly out of here anymore) . Is there any hope of
> stoping this from happening. Should I contact EAA, and can they help,
> AOPA? This airport has been here for 30+ years and now it looks like some
> a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad, and thanks for paying
> your electric bill on time every month. Please feel free to let me know any
> and all options we can fight this with.
>
> Sincerly, Shad Bell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Airport is in trouble!!
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Shad,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Definitely contact AOPA and EAA TODAY! Go to
EAA's website and login as a member, there is a button at the top of the page
to contact us, that is where I would start with them. Your airport is on the
sectional chart, that should help. Keep us updated on your progress. Good luck.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 3/14/2009 11:22:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation enthusiast I know.
I live on a grass airport community in central Ohio and the power company (Consolidated
Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines directly over
the top of the runway thresh hold. After being notified of this problem by the
airport (runway) owner , I believe he said other than right of way by the township
there is no easement yet for the side of my property or the runway ( I
live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to the side street). This will
effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from 3000 to 2000 ft. With no warning
I have survey steaks and pins driven in my yard and back accross the runway.
To all of you who have any experiance with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I
am looking for advise on stoping the power company from destroying this airport.
Eventually someone is going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70
ft above a runway here, (or nobody will be able to f
ly out of here anymore) . Is there any hope of stoping this from happening.
Should I contact EAA, and can they help, AOPA? This airport has been here for
30+ years and now it looks like some a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too
bad so sad, and thanks for paying your electric bill on time every month.
Please feel free to let me know any and all options we can fight this with.
Sincerly, Shad Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
Date: Mar 15, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Chet,
I wasn't aware that stuck exhaust valves were a problem in the A. Is this true?
I put one of those aluminum heads on mine and had to remove some material?so
my oversize intake valves didn't come in contact with this head.
Dan Helpser
Poplar Grove, IL
NX929DH
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Parts
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2009
I am going to be listing 2 model A engine blocks and 1 head for sale on ebay. Before
I do that I thought I should find out if any of our builders community has
a need or interest. Contact me off line if anyone has a need. These have been
sitting around for years and their condition is unknown.
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Mar 15, 2009
could it be from excess lead deposits? from what I have allways been told-avgas
has more lead than the old premium or ethyl had.maybe lead buildup on the stems
or carbon if there is some oil going by the guides? I know when I was using
Marvel in my Piper engine it was on advice from an aircraft mechanic because
of the lack of lead in cargas.but the avgas should give all the valve protection
you'd need I'd think.have you looked into the ports to see if it is carbon
buildup?Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234655#234655
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Rob asked-
>Has anyone ever written a "How To" manual for
>the Pietenpol Air Camper?
Sure. Bernard Pietenpol went through a narrative
on building the Air Camper in the Flying & Glider
Manuals. In addition to that=2C the Pietenpol
family offers a construction manual with that same
narrative plus a host of other information such as
frequently asked questions=2C info learned since the
early days of the Piet=2C and useful tips.
If you're looking for a "Insert Tab A into Slot B"
type of manual though=2C you won't find it. That's
the beauty of building a Piet. It's like sitting
down to your dining room table and emptying out all
the pieces to a big=2C beautiful jigsaw puzzle of
Cherry Grove=2C Minnesota on the table and then just
sorting it out bit by bit.
I always start a jigsaw puzzle by finding the four
corner pieces=2C next I find all the edge pieces=2C then
I just go from there=2C working on a new and interesting
part every day until I just can't seem to make any
progress there=2C then I start on another area of the
puzzle and work on it for a while. Building a Piet
is the same way =3Bo) And with this jigsaw puzzle=2C
you'll find a little bit of Mr. Pietenpol's airplane
and barn in every piece...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Shad..
What is your airport identifier?
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all
aviation enthusiast I know. I live on a grass airport community in
central Ohio and the power company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is
trying to run 70+ ft power lines directly over the top of the runway
thresh hold. After being notified of this problem by the airport
(runway) owner , I believe he said other than right of way by the
township there is no easement yet for the side of my property or the
runway ( I live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to the side
street). This will effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from 3000 to
2000 ft. With no warning I have survey steaks and pins driven in my
yard and back accross the runway. To all of you who have any experiance
with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I am looking for advise on stoping
the power company from destroying this airport. Eventually someone is
going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70 ft above a runway
here, (or nobody will be able to fly out of here anymore) . Is there
any hope of stoping this from happening. Should I contact EAA, and can
they help, AOPA? This airport has been here for 30+ years and now it
looks like some a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad,
and thanks for paying your electric bill on time every month. Please
feel free to let me know any and all options we can fight this with.
Sincerly, Shad Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 15, 2009
John,
I live in Camden, Tenn. Camden is half way between Memphis and
Nashville. Turn off I 40 at exit 126 and go North on 641 about 15
miles. Randy Bush lives just East of Jackson (about exit 91) and has a
very nice corvair powered Pietenpol. Would love to meet you and show
you my Piet and I'm sure Randy would too. My # is 731-336-6893 and
Randy's is 731-441-9164. Just talked with Randy and he said for you to
give him a call and if he is in the area he would love to show you his
bird.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Gene
Where are you located in Tn. I will be in Memphis monday night and
Tuesday then Drive to Nashville area Wednesday back to Memphis that
night Thur Memphis and Friday home.
Any other Piets in those areas? I would like to do a look by if
possible.
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "Gene & Tammy"
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:42:04 -0500
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Bill, I'll go one step further, I think Pietenpol builders and flyers
are missing out if they don't use the FlyBaby site. Good info thru out.
Gene in wet Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Just stumbled across a link on the Flybaby website that is likely of
interest to Pietenpol builders who are using traditional aircraft
engines for their powerplants. This site has lots of manuals for
Continental and Lycoming engines, as well as accessories and lots of
other good stuff. And they're all free downloads. Here's the link:
http://www.bomar.biz/download.php
Bill C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========== ~=B2=03
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Hide the silverware.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
John,
I live in Camden, Tenn. Camden is half way between Memphis and
Nashville. Turn off I 40 at exit 126 and go North on 641 about 15
miles. Randy Bush lives just East of Jackson (about exit 91) and has a
very nice corvair powered Pietenpol. Would love to meet you and show
you my Piet and I'm sure Randy would too. My # is 731-336-6893 and
Randy's is 731-441-9164. Just talked with Randy and he said for you to
give him a call and if he is in the area he would love to show you his
bird.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Gene
Where are you located in Tn. I will be in Memphis monday night and
Tuesday then Drive to Nashville area Wednesday back to Memphis that
night Thur Memphis and Friday home.
Any other Piets in those areas? I would like to do a look by if
possible.
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: "Gene & Tammy"
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:42:04 -0500
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Bill, I'll go one step further, I think Pietenpol builders and
flyers are missing out if they don't use the FlyBaby site. Good info
thru out.
Gene in wet Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Just stumbled across a link on the Flybaby website that is likely
of interest to Pietenpol builders who are using traditional aircraft
engines for their powerplants. This site has lots of manuals for
Continental and Lycoming engines, as well as accessories and lots of
other good stuff. And they're all free downloads. Here's the link:
http://www.bomar.biz/download.php
Bill C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution =========== ~=B2=03
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Fellow Builders:
Does anybody know the identifier of Skip's field?
Thanks,
Al Lyscars
GN-1 in-progress
AOPA ASN B19
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
Shad,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Definitely contact AOPA and EAA
TODAY! Go to EAA's website and login as a member, there is a button at
the top of the page to contact us, that is where I would start with
them. Your airport is on the sectional chart, that should help. Keep us
updated on your progress. Good luck.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: Pietenpol Discussion
Sent: 3/14/2009 11:22:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to
all aviation enthusiast I know. I live on a grass airport community in
central Ohio and the power company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is
trying to run 70+ ft power lines directly over the top of the runway
thresh hold. After being notified of this problem by the airport
(runway) owner , I believe he said other than right of w ay by the
township there is no easement yet for the side of my property or the
runway ( I live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to the side
street). This will effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from 3000 to
2000 ft. With no warning I have survey steaks and pins driven in my
yard and back accross the runway. To all of you who have any experiance
with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I am looking for advise on stoping
the power company from destroying this airport. Eventually someone is
going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70 ft above a runway
here, (or nobody will be able to fly out of here anymore) . Is there
any hope of stoping this from happening. Should I contact EAA, and can
they help, AOPA? This airport has been here for 30+ years and now it
looks like some a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad,
and thanks for paying your electric bill on time every month. Please
feel free to let me know any and all options we can fight this with.
Sincerly, Shad Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Subject: (no subject)
Hi John,
Gene gave you the wrong phone number it is 731-267-0578 ,and the exit
number off of I-40 is # 93.
I drive a truck so I don't know my schedule exactly,but I am usually home
evenings just give me a call a day ahead and I should be able to tell you if I
am going to be around,and would be glad to show you my plane.
Randy Bush
NX294RB
**************Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000005)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Al , Our ident is OH71 Campman Memorial Field--just north of Columbus O
hio 30 miles or so.--
-
What is your airport identifier?
-
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation enthusiast I k
now.- I live on a grass airport community in central Ohio-and the power
company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines
directly over the top of the runway thresh hold.- After being notified of
this problem by the airport (runway) owner , I believe he said other than
right of way by the township there is no easement yet for the side of my pr
operty or the runway ( I live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to t
he side street).- This will effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from
3000 to 2000 ft.- With no warning I have survey steaks and pins driven in
my yard and back accross the runway.- To all of you who have any experia
nce with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I am looking for advise on stopin
g the power company from destroying this airport.- Eventually someone is
going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70 ft above a runway here,
(or nobody will be able to fly out of here anymore) .- Is there any hope
of stoping this from happening.- Should I contact EAA, and can they help
, AOPA?- This airport has been here for 30+ years and now it looks like s
ome a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad, and thanks for p
aying your electric bill on time every month.- Please feel free to let me
know any and all options we can fight this with.
-
Sincerly, Shad Bell
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 15, 2009
I stopped using Marvel a number of years ago , and now I use synthetic two-cycle
oil at 400:1 with good success. I did my test work on the Werner 145,and my
Lamberts (3) and have been running with this oil for the past 200 hours in my
Ford,with no complaints.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234733#234733
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Boy did I screw that up!! Oh well, I was somewhat close.
Randy, I just test flew Rich's plane this afternoon for him and it did
great. His number is the one I gave to John by mistake.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: RBush96589(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject)
Hi John,
Gene gave you the wrong phone number it is 731-267-0578 ,and the exit
number off of I-40 is # 93.
I drive a truck so I don't know my schedule exactly,but I am usually
home evenings just give me a call a day ahead and I should be able to
tell you if I am going to be around,and would be glad to show you my
plane.
Randy Bush
NX294RB
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Need a job? Find employment help in your area.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
Pieti,
Is that 400:1 in the crankcase oil or 400:1 in the fuel tank?
Thanks,
Jeff
>
>I stopped using Marvel a number of years ago , and now I use
>synthetic two-cycle oil at 400:1 with good success. I did my test
>work on the Werner 145,and my Lamberts (3) and have been running
>with this oil for the past 200 hours in my Ford,with no complaints.
>Pieti Lowell
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Al,
Hales Landing 2WV3, 12 miles south of Parkersburg WV.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN LYSCARS
Sent: 3/15/2009 4:06:34 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
Fellow Builders:
Does anybody know the identifier of Skip's field?
Thanks,
Al Lyscars
GN-1 in-progress
AOPA ASN B19
----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Gadd
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
Shad,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Definitely contact AOPA and EAA TODAY! Go to
EAA's website and login as a member, there is a button at the top of the page
to contact us, that is where I would start with them. Your airport is on the
sectional chart, that should help. Keep us updated on your progress. Good luck.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
Sent: 3/14/2009 11:22:59 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation enthusiast I know.
I live on a grass airport community in central Ohio and the power company (Consolidated
Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines directly over
the top of the runway thresh hold. After being notified of this problem by the
airport (runway) owner , I believe he said other than right of w ay by the township
there is no easement yet for the side of my property or the runway ( I
live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to the side street). This will
effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from 3000 to 2000 ft. With no warning
I have survey steaks and pins driven in my yard and back accross the runway.
To all of you who have any experiance with this "Bully the small guy" stuff
I am looking for advise on stoping the power company from destroying this airport.
Eventually someone is going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70
ft above a runway here, (or nobody will be able to
fly out of here anymore) . Is there any hope of stoping this from happening.
Should I contact EAA, and can they help, AOPA? This airport has been here for
30+ years and now it looks like some a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me
too bad so sad, and thanks for paying your electric bill on time every month.
Please feel free to let me know any and all options we can fight this with.
Sincerly, Shad Bell
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 2 Projects for sale
Date: Mar 15, 2009
I just wanted to apologize for tying names to my opinion of levels of
craftsmanship in my last post. No criticism is/was intended.
Thanks
Kirk
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Date: Mar 15, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Shad,
A simple call to the FAA wil do
We had something similar a few years ago near our airport.
A phone company wanted to erect a tower in the airport neighborhood for wireless
internet.
A Faa ruling stopped it, you can not erect any towers within a certain radius of
an airport.
Check the FAA guidelines
BR
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:19 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
To all recieving this email,
My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation enthusiast I know.?
I live on a grass airport community in central Ohio?and the power company (Consolidated
Electric Co-Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines directly over
the top of the runway thresh hold.? After being notified of this problem by the
airport (runway) owner , I believe he said other than right of way by the township
there is no easement yet for the side of my property or the runway ( I
live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to the side street).? This will
effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from 3000 to 2000 ft.? With no warning
I have survey steaks and pins driven in my yard and back accross the runway.?
To all of you who have any experiance with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I
am looking for advise on stoping the power company from destroying this airport.?
Eventually someone is going to get killed from hitting a electric line 70
ft above a runway here, (or nobody will be able to f
ly out of here anymore) .? Is there any hope of stoping this from happening.?
Should I contact EAA, and can they help, AOPA?? This airport has been here for
30+ years and now it looks like some a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too
bad so sad, and thanks for paying your electric bill on time every month.?
Please feel free to let me know any and all options we can fight this with.
?
Sincerly, Shad Bell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Thanks for the inport I have checked and there is very little deposits, and
the plugs look good.
I did fly again today for hour and everything worked great.
Chet
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stuck Value
>
> could it be from excess lead deposits? from what I have allways been
> told-avgas has more lead than the old premium or ethyl had.maybe lead
> buildup on the stems or carbon if there is some oil going by the guides? I
> know when I was using Marvel in my Piper engine it was on advice from an
> aircraft mechanic because of the lack of lead in cargas.but the avgas
> should give all the valve protection you'd need I'd think.have you looked
> into the ports to see if it is carbon buildup?Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234655#234655
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
-Does that FAA ruling apply to private airports that are not open to the
public?- It is on the sectional as "R" private , (or restricted).
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
Date: Mar 15, 2009
Thanks Pieti I will be off to the store to purchase some tomorrow.
Chet
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 4:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Stuck Value
>
>
> I stopped using Marvel a number of years ago , and now I use synthetic
> two-cycle oil at 400:1 with good success. I did my test work on the Werner
> 145,and my Lamberts (3) and have been running with this oil for the past
> 200 hours in my Ford,with no complaints.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234733#234733
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 15, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Birthday flying
Hello group, And thank you all for the advise on protecting our airport, (E
specciallyTim Willis in sunny TX)-.- On a much lighter note I mannaged
to get out of work an hour early, because no jets were broke today, and I d
id some flying.- I took the old latex, chevy, go cart wheeled recon-mac
hine up and around to do some areial-recon work to find the suspected tar
get (power substation).- I am assuming it is the one to the south, bearin
g 180 deg from my house and range 2 miles.- I tried to find some other ro
utes for the proposed pole line to run, but due to my lack of high alt, hig
h speed sr-71 cammeras I could not take photos.- Oh well time to call in
the aztecs, barrons and bonanzas for a bomb run, then finish them off with
rv-4, and Cassutt-straffing runs.- Made 3 good landings and did not bre
ak anything so all is well and back at base.- Who knows what tommoroww's
intel will reveal about the electric co. nazi's.-
-
Untill tommorow,
Capt Shadly Sundowner
-
P.S. I know we all need power lines but not at the threshhold.=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 15, 2009
[The two-cycle synthetics goes in the fuel, I have been using auto 93 Oct, without
alcohol. Today I got a number of sticky valves loose in a 200 HP Ranger with
a heavier 200:1 in the fuel. It does work well.
Pieti Lowell
Is that 400:1 in the crankcase oil or 400:1 in the fuel tank?
Thanks,
Jeff
>
>
> I stopped using Marvel a number of years ago , and now I use
> synthetic two-cycle oil at 400:1 with good success. I did my test
> work on the Werner 145,and my Lamberts (3) and have been running
> with this oil for the past 200 hours in my Ford,with no complaints.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234770#234770
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
Date: Mar 16, 2009
Silverware hidden, beer drank and wife sent out of town....
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Markle
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Hide the silverware.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
John,
I live in Camden, Tenn. Camden is half way between Memphis and
Nashville. Turn off I 40 at exit 126 and go North on 641 about 15
miles. Randy Bush lives just East of Jackson (about exit 91) and has a
very nice corvair powered Pietenpol. Would love to meet you and show
you my Piet and I'm sure Randy would too. My # is 731-336-6893 and
Randy's is 731-441-9164. Just talked with Randy and he said for you to
give him a call and if he is in the area he would love to show you his
bird.
Looking forward to hearing from you
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Gene
Where are you located in Tn. I will be in Memphis monday night and
Tuesday then Drive to Nashville area Wednesday back to Memphis that
night Thur Memphis and Friday home.
Any other Piets in those areas? I would like to do a look by if
possible.
Thanks
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: "Gene & Tammy"
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:42:04 -0500
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Bill, I'll go one step further, I think Pietenpol builders and
flyers are missing out if they don't use the FlyBaby site. Good info
thru out.
Gene in wet Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: manuals for free download
Just stumbled across a link on the Flybaby website that is
likely of interest to Pietenpol builders who are using traditional
aircraft engines for their powerplants. This site has lots of manuals
for Continental and Lycoming engines, as well as accessories and lots of
other good stuff. And they're all free downloads. Here's the link:
http://www.bomar.biz/download.php
Bill C.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
------------------------------------------------------------------------
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution =========== ~=B2=03
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
3/14/2009 6:54 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
From: "SteveR" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Date: Mar 16, 2009
Shad,
I'm sure you know this, but time is extremely important here. If they have already
done a survey of the underground utilities, they may be about to start construction.
It is extremely important to get this changed before they put the
poles in the ground at the runway, once they've spent money there it will be
very hard to get them to undo this.
I would contact the FAA as indicated by someone else, and AOPA. You may have to
push the FAA, call as many offices as you can, and call the local FSDO. Keep
talking to them until you find someone willing to help, that is probably the
key.
Check the Electric Co's website. Try to find contact information for the engineers
they have designing this thing. Somewhere they have engineers deciding if
this thing will be buried or overhead. Let them know that there are issues
with what they are proposing. Cite other FAA rulings that prevented such towers
from being built (even if you don't have detailed information). This is key
as if the engineer thinks he is about to screw something up that will cost the
company money, he may be willing to change their design. Let them know that
a lawsuit is intended if they move forward. They are infringing on and reducing
the value of as well as your ability to use your property, OUTSIDE of any
right of way that would be issued. As someone stated before, simply routing
the lines underground for a short length, maybe 150', would prevent this. The
utility could do this, and I would guess the additional cost would be somewhere
in the $10k to $20k range, maybe less, to bury the lines.
http://consolidatedelectric.coop/
Corporate Office
5255 State Route 95
P.O. Box 111
Mount Gilead, OH 43338
Phone: (419) 947-3055
Fax: (419) 947-3082
District Office
680 Sunbury Road
P.O. Box 630
Delaware, OH 43015
Phone: (740) 363-2641
Fax: (740) 369-1804
As a last resort, if they aren't cooperating, you may see if you can get a group
of pilots or property owners at the airport to come up with money as a partial
payment to bury the lines. I know that isn't right or fair, but as a last
resort, it would beat having your runway ruined. $5k to $10k might be enough
to entice the utility to change their mind.
I'm an electrical engineer and deal with utility engineers on a regular basis for
commercial construction projects. If you would like, give me a call and I'll
see if I can give you some better advice.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
405-209-9010
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234812#234812
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Mar 16, 2009
Shad,
Having read through the replies, you are on the right track, A couple of
things I thought of.
I don't know how Ohio is, but in the state of Iowa, any utility must have
an easement both temporary for construction and permanent for maintenance,
if the Owner of the airfield owns the entire strip then they should have
to obtain his/her signature for the easement, if that person refuses to
sign, then they will have to pursue eminent domain, which is not a quick
process.
Also contact the County Engineer to find out when the project was approved
by the County board of Supervisors. If they are doing preliminary survey
work, then they should contact home owners prior to entering their
property, unless they have an easment, or a court order, otherwise it's
trespassing.
Also dont' be affarid to question them when they are on the airfield or
your property,
Jake
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Birthday flying
Wonder why they can't go under ground?- No need to build power poles abov
e ground.
-
--- On Sun, 3/15/09, shad bell wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Birthday flying
Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 10:03 PM
Hello group, And thank you all for the advise on protecting our airport, (E
specciallyTim Willis in sunny TX)-.- On a much lighter note I mannaged
to get out of work an hour early, because no jets were broke today, and I d
id some flying.- I took the old latex, chevy, go cart wheeled recon-mac
hine up and around to do some areial-recon work to find the suspected tar
get (power substation).- I am assuming it is the one to the south, bearin
g 180 deg from my house and range 2 miles.- I tried to find some other ro
utes for the proposed pole line to run, but due to my lack of high alt, hig
h speed sr-71 cammeras I could not take photos.- Oh well time to call in
the aztecs, barrons and bonanzas for a bomb run, then finish them off with
rv-4, and Cassutt-straffing runs.- Made 3 good landings and did not bre
ak anything so all is well and back at base.- Who knows what tommoroww's
intel will reveal about the electric co. nazi's.-
-
Untill tommorow,
Capt Shadly Sundowner
-
P.S. I know we all need power lines but not at the threshhold.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Bare wood wing storage
I hung my newly finished right wing up in the gargage flat against the wall
. It is just a bare wood wing. (no cover, no cables) The garrage is attache
d to the house but no heat/cooling. Curious if this is an all right environ
ment to-store the wing as I build the left one and fuselage? Our garage i
s-only used for our cars and is kept quite clean. (no lawn equip., toys,
tools, etc.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stuck Value
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 16, 2009
Hi Dan' The Funk head has the intake valve clearance for a 1-1/2"dia. valve head
and a 6.25:1 compression ratio. All in a Ford B block. A good head for 63 HP.
and pushing a 76 X 50 Prop. to 2175 RPM
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234833#234833
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Date: Mar 16, 2009
Shad,
You'll find a lot of essential information and ,hopefully, valuable
assistance from the Office of Aviation in the Ohio Department of
Transportation (ODOT). Go to the website - www.dot.state.oh.us and
click on the aviation icon. Then under Aviation Links, click on ODOT
Office of Aviation. There you will find a link to Airports which and
further links to laws and regulations regarding Airspace Protection
(Tall Structures). Of particular interest will be whether a permit has
been applied for - see Ohio Revised Code 4561.33 Application for
permit. You might find help and support through the Ohio Aviation
Association ( www.ohioaviation.org ) and should probably join it. To
quote from the pop up caption under the Aviation icon on the ODOT
Homepage, "As home to the Wright Brothers, Ohio has long been known as
the 'Birthplace of Aviation'." With that in mind, I think you are
likely to succeed.
Al Hays
48VA, Gore, VA
On Mar 14, 2009, at 11:19 PM, shad bell wrote:
>
> To all recieving this email,
> My name is Shad Bell, and this email is sent to all aviation
> enthusiast I know. I live on a grass airport community in central
> Ohio and the power company (Consolidated Electric Co-Op) is trying
> to run 70+ ft power lines directly over the top of the runway thresh
> hold. After being notified of this problem by the airport (runway)
> owner , I believe he said other than right of way by the township
> there is no easement yet for the side of my property or the runway
> ( I live on a corner lot and the runway comes out to the side
> street). This will effectivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from
> 3000 to 2000 ft. With no warning I have survey steaks and pins
> driven in my yard and back accross the runway. To all of you who
> have any experiance with this "Bully the small guy" stuff I am
> looking for advise on stoping the power company from destroying this
> airport. Eventually someone is going to get killed from hitting a
> electric line 70 ft above a runway here, (or nobody will be able to
> fly out of here anymore) . Is there any hope of stoping this from
> happening. Should I contact EAA, and can they help, AOPA? This
> airport has been here for 30+ years and now it looks like some a--
> hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad, and thanks for
> paying your electric bill on time every month. Please feel free to
> let me know any and all options we can fight this with.
>
> Sincerly, Shad Bell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Airport in trouble
It is quite a bit more expensive to go underground. It requires different cable,
continuous trenches take a lot more digging than pole holes, and most power
companies' (particularly rural) maintenance facilities are already very well equipped
to install and maintain wires on poles but are not very well equipped
to install and maintain underground cables. If not required by some enforcement
action to go underground, they will set poles and string wires.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perez" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:39:11 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Birthday flying
Wonder why they can't go under ground? No need to build power poles above ground.
-
_
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: Charles Tracy <charlestracy2635(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Shad, =0A=0AYou have a utility engineer lurking in your midst. I have worke
d on this issue for my utility and I think I can provide some incite. If yo
ur airport is registered with the FAA (and it sounds like it is) any constr
uction that would impede air traffic must be submitted to the FAA for appro
val. I have attached the form that the utility would have to fill out and s
end to the FAA. Many utilities don't know that they need to do this and the
FAA does not actively enforce it so it is up to us to keep them honest.
=0A=0AFirst I would provide this form to the utility and inform them of the
ir responsibility. Ask for the Field Engineer or Staker in charge or this j
ob.-If that doesn't work go to the manager of Engineering. Then I would r
ecommend that you contact the FAA's regional office. They would be the ones
who analyze the forms submitted.=0A=0AIf the utility chose to go ahead wit
h the line they must submit the form to the FAA. The FAA then checks to see
if it impedes air traffic, in this case it does. They some times will requ
ire the line to be marked with balls or lights but in this case they would
probably not allow construction. In any case I would try and file a formal
complaint that would be used when the FAA looks at the form. =0A=0AMy utili
ty is a Co-op also and we try to be very accomidating to our membership. I
hope that you find them easy to work with. Remind them that they are member
owned and that the members at the airport won't hesitate to go to the Co-o
p board if nessisary.-=0A=0AGood Luck,=0A=0ACharlie Tracy=0A=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0AFrom: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo
: Pietenpol Discussion =0ASent: Saturday, Mar
ch 14, 2009 8:19:08 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Airport is in trouble!!
=0A=0A=0ATo all recieving this email,=0AMy name is Shad Bell, and this emai
l is sent to all aviation enthusiast I know.- I live on a grass airport c
ommunity in central Ohio-and the power company (Consolidated Electric Co-
Op) is trying to run 70+ ft power lines directly over the top of the runway
thresh hold.- After being notified of this problem by the airport (runwa
y) owner , I believe he said other than right of way by the township there
is no easement yet for the side of my property or the runway ( I live on a
corner lot and the runway comes out to the side street).- This will effec
tivly shorten our runway about 1/3 from 3000 to 2000 ft.- With no warning
I have survey steaks and pins driven in my yard and back accross the runwa
y.- To all of you who have any experiance with this "Bully the small guy"
stuff I am looking for advise on stoping the power company from destroying
this airport.- Eventually someone is going to get killed from hitting a
electric line 70 ft above a runway here,
(or nobody will be able to fly out of here anymore) .- Is there any hope
of stoping this from happening.- Should I contact EAA, and can they help
, AOPA?- This airport has been here for 30+ years and now it looks like s
ome a--hole with $$$$$ is going to tell me too bad so sad, and thanks for p
aying your electric bill on time every month.- Please feel free to let me
know any and all options we can fight this with.=0A=0ASincerly, Shad Bell
================ =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Airport in trouble
The other thing that most do not understand, is that if they do go undergro
und the rates for their customers need to go up to pay for the additional c
onstruction and maintenance costs.- In the states that I have experience
with then the utilities commission starts asking why they went underground
and need to roll those costs into the rate base.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0AFrom: "bike.mike(at)comcast.net" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net
>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March 16, 2009 9:51:01
AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Airport in trouble=0A=0A=0AIt is quite a
bit more expensive to go underground.- It requires different cable, cont
inuous trenches take a lot more digging than pole holes, and most power com
panies' (particularly rural) maintenance facilities are already very well e
quipped to install and maintain wires on poles but are not very well equipp
ed to install and maintain underground cables.- If not required by some e
nforcement action to go underground, they will set poles and string wires.
=0A- =0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Michael Perez" <speedbra
ke(at)sbcglobal.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March
16, 2009 7:39:11 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-L
ist: Birthday flying=0A=0A=0AWonder why they can't go under ground?- No n
eed to build power poles above ground.=0A=0A=0A=0A- =0A =0A =0A _=0A
==========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Airport in trouble
We have a situation much like this at our local Embrum air strip just outsi
de Ottawa Canada.What they did was put marker balls(huge big plastic balls
in red and white) on the cables.What most of us do is fly in then drop down
quick and land.The alternative is to fly under them(not recommended).Our a
irspeed in a Piet isn't that fast that it's going to make that much differe
nce however faster aircraft may have problems.It may be possible to come in
and fly parallel to the cables till you come to the strip and then turn an
d drop down sort of the same way a Spitfire comes in to a field because the
y have that long nose.Most of the time,once these utility companies have ma
de up their minds that they are going a certain way,it's really hard to tur
n them around or away.Sort of like fighting City Hall-.That's my take on
it for what it's worth.Good luck!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________
_____=0AFrom: "bike.mike(at)comcast.net" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net>=0ATo: pietenp
ol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:51:01 PM=0ASubject:
Re: Pietenpol-List: Airport in trouble=0A=0A=0AIt is quite a bit more expe
nsive to go underground.- It requires different cable, continuous trenche
s take a lot more digging than pole holes, and most power companies' (parti
cularly rural) maintenance facilities are already very well equipped to ins
tall and maintain wires on poles but are not very well equipped to install
and maintain underground cables.- If not required by some enforcement act
ion to go underground, they will set poles and string wires.=0A- =0A=0A--
--- Original Message -----=0AFrom: "Michael Perez" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.ne
t>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:39:1
1 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Birthday f
lying=0A=0A=0AWonder why they can't go under ground?- No need to build po
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Airport in trouble
Bikemike's comments are absolutely right, but:
the utility is infringing upon the use of the airfield, which puts them in a bad
legal situation in many respects, as well as creating a hazard to aviation,
a liability no-no.
they have a prospective PR nightmare on their hands if the owner and pilots band
together and raise a ruckus.
the utility must bury plant all the time in subdivisions or cities that require
that. They don't like to do it, for the labor, process, and materials are more
costly and time-consuming.
As a compromise position after some other steps have failed , the airport management
might offer to either pay for or contract to execute the trench at the locus
of the intended pole line. The electric co-op would provide, place and install
the two terminals, the conduit, etc. In Ohio you are likely talking a
trencher. Here in TX, west of I-35, the 9 ft. dia. rock saw required rents for
over $1000 a day.
I have advised Shad off-board of a number of steps to take both in parallel and
sequentially (progressively more adversial steps).
The advice and the contacts of all the members of this board, as usual have been
excellent. Shad has all the elements of a great game plan. Of course, a lot
depends upon the position and attitude of the utility.
Good luck, Shad. Keep us posted.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net
>Sent: Mar 16, 2009 11:51 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Airport in trouble
>
>It is quite a bit more expensive to go underground. It requires different cable,
continuous trenches take a lot more digging than pole holes, and most power
companies' (particularly rural) maintenance facilities are already very well
equipped to install and maintain wires on poles but are not very well equipped
to install and maintain underground cables. If not required by some enforcement
action to go underground, they will set poles and string wires.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Perez" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:39:11 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Birthday flying
>
>
>Wonder why they can't go under ground? No need to build power poles above ground.
>
>
>-
>
>
>
>
>_
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bare wood wing storage
I hung mine up from the ceiling as well, but I varnished them first to seal
them.-
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Michael Perez wrote:
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 7:49 AM
I hung my newly finished right wing up in the gargage flat against the wall
. It is just a bare wood wing. (no cover, no cables) The garrage is attache
d to the house but no heat/cooling. Curious if this is an all right environ
ment to-store the wing as I build the left one and fuselage? Our garage i
s-only used for our cars and is kept quite clean. (no lawn equip., toys,
tools, etc.)
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Mar 16, 2009
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement ceiling. The wood
for that wing had been in the heated basement for two years. The other
day when getting ready to store my second wing I noticed quite a few
loose bolts on the first one. I had no idea the wood dried out and
shrunk that much after storing in the controlled atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joemotis(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Airport is in trouble!!
Amen to that, if they surveyed across your property without an easement or
your permission, feel free to remove the ILLEGAL survey stakes after you take
pictures then contact law enforcement to pursue trespassing charges.
Joe Motis
WW Corvair
Dealt with this crap at my airpark for a water line, they tried to push me
into a easement through a certified letter including playing stupid with me and
when asked for compensation you should have heard him sputter. .
This was 5 years ago and still no water line.
no archive
In a message dated 3/16/2009 6:40:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com writes:
Shad,
Having read through the replies, you are on the right track, A couple of
things I thought of.
I don't know how Ohio is, but in the state of Iowa, any utility must have an
easement both temporary for construction and permanent for maintenance, if
the Owner of the airfield owns the entire strip then they should have to
obtain his/her signature for the easement, if that person refuses to sign, then
they will have to pursue eminent domain, which is not a quick process.
Also contact the County Engineer to find out when the project was approved
by the County board of Supervisors. If they are doing preliminary survey
work, then they should contact home owners prior to entering their property,
unless they have an easment, or a court order, otherwise it's trespassing.
Also dont' be affarid to question them when they are on the airfield or your
property,
Jake
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no where else to store the
m once built, so I guess they are both going to have to stay in the garage
until ready for covering. I just hoped the heat/cold would not hurt them. (
winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement ceiling.- The wood f
or that wing had been in the heated basement for two years.- The other da
y when getting ready to store my second wing I noticed quite a few loose bo
lts on the first one.- I had no idea the wood dried out and shrunk that m
uch after storing in the controlled atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
-
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: One down, one to go. (Wings)
The wood construction on my right wing is done and it is now stored out of
the way. My spars for the left wing come yesterday, Monday and I should be
installing ribs by the weekend.- Feels good to be half way through wing c
onstruction. One thing that may be of use to those who do not have their wi
ngs built: I varnished mine by hand with a brush. To do the whole wing once
assemble was quite the chore. What I will be doing with this left wing is
to do the varnish as I go. I'll install some ribs, let dry, then varnish th
ose ribs. Add a few more, let dry, varnish. This way I can get right up to
them without having to reach across the chord or in between spars, etc. The
spars themselves will not be-varnished until all the other bracing and c
ompression struts are in place. Those did not seem to bad to do once the wi
ng was done.
-
Just some FYI on my progress and thoughts.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: manuals for free download
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 18, 2009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________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: 4130
Date: Mar 18, 2009
Group,
In purchasing a sheet of 4130 for my fittings it is offered in
"Annealed" or "Normalized" state, which is preferred? Also what size of
sheet do most builders get that can get the number of fitting I need on
it? Thanks.
Brian
Brian Jardine
L-3 Communications
Operations Project Engineer
640 North 2200 West
P.O.Box 16850
Salt Lake City, UT 84116
L
801-594-3482
brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 18, 2009
Subject: 4130
Brian,
All of the 4130 I used was normalized, 4130 N. You'll have to figure ho
w many fittings you can get out of what sized sheet but the two
main thicknesses used in the airplane are .060 and .090. If you have a m
etal fab shop in your area they might have a shear where they
can cut you strips of what widths you need as most fittings are like widths
for various 'areas' on the plane. You can order 4130 in widths
from ACS I believe. I copied my plans where it showed full size fittings
or drew them out on paper then Uhu-glue sticked them right on to
my 4130 and drilled and cut/ground to the lines/circles.
Don't forget to observe the 4130 grain direction, bending rules, and edge f
inishing tips that Tony Bingelis has in his books such as the
grain of the steel runs with the white lettering on the sheet, your fitting
s should run that way length-wise too. Bends are perpendicular to
the grain. Edges should have no saw marks, nicks, or file marks. Count
ersink your drill holes to remove the burr/edge roughness.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 4130
Date: Mar 18, 2009
4130Use the "Normalized" 4130. The "annealed" condition steel is soft
and is to be used when heat treating is planned after the steel has been
formed.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130
Group,
In purchasing a sheet of 4130 for my fittings it is offered in
"Annealed" or "Normalized" state, which is preferred? Also what size of
sheet do most builders get that can get the number of fitting I need on
it? Thanks.
Brian
Brian Jardine
L-3 Communications
Operations Project Engineer
640 North 2200 West
P.O.Box 16850
Salt Lake City, UT 84116
L
801-594-3482
brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 4130
The wing attaching straps and the cabane attach hardware is .080". There ma
y be others, but those are on the 3 piece wing print. (Which I have out and
can look at real quick.)
-
FYI
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2009
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Free Waldo Peppers Again!
Hey Gang-
Last year I sent out several dozen free home made Waldo Pepper DVD's to anyone
who wanted one. Many sent me something in return - not necessary but always welcome.
Once again, if anyone wants one, contact me off list and I'll get one to you.
The "used and new" on Amazon starting at $15 are for VHS tapes, their DVD's are
starting at $49 (at least today, it varies daily). Note they also have soundtrack
recordings, paperback books and related items.
My copies are from my original (old) VHS tape, not the finest remastered digital
quality, but certainly watchable, and free.
I just like to share a good movie.
Tim in Bovey
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 18, 2009
From: Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Airport in trouble
I don't know a heck of a lot about running power lines, but I can tell you this...
The FM transmitter for the radio station I am the engineer for, is located on the
top of a hill, in northern Minnesota woods. We share the building with another
station, we both have 100,000 watt transmitters that require three phase power.
The co-op only provided single phase power to the building -- the line
ran about a mile from the nearest junction, up the hill, thru the woods. We had
phase generators runing to give us three phases that were old, noisy and expensive.
Finally this past fall the other station (who actually owns the property)
raised the cash to run a three phase line to the building. This new line
had to run about 1.5 miles, thru the woods, up the hill. the kids of hill you
need 4 wheel drive to get up, in good weather and dry conditions. The whole project
cost around $25,000. This is for 1.5 miles of buried cable, labor, cable,
men, clearing a path when necessary, etc.
The co-op was pleased as punch to have the old single phase off line, and to be
providing the power underground, as damage to the old pole mounted lines was
constant. Running thru the trees in the woods left lots of room for damage mostly
from falling tree limbs that broke off in thunderstorms, wind storms, snow
and ice storms. They were always heading up the hill to fix something everytime
there was a big storm. Outages were quite regular. othing makes radio people
more grumpy than to not have poweer at a transmitter site! We have a generator
at the site that keeps our back up transmitter (at greatly reduced power)
on the air when the power went out. Not so much as a glitch since the new line
went in.
So, I believe in many cases a buried line will be a better line than a pole line.
I just don't see that they couldn't be convinced to bury if indeed the line
HAS to go in that location. I would think it would be way better for them than
possible liabilities from any airplane/line incidents.
Just some thoughts. Good luck in the fight!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 4130
Date: Mar 18, 2009
Normalized. As for sheet size, it depends on what you are using to cut them
out. Bandsaw throat depths vary. Many can be cut from strip stock of the
appropriate width and thickness. I don't think there is a good way to
minimize wast, because, if you are like me, you'll make at least 3 to get 2
good ones.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 4130
Group,
In purchasing a sheet of 4130 for my fittings it is offered in "Annealed" or
"Normalized" state, which is preferred? Also what size of sheet do most
builders get that can get the number of fitting I need on it? Thanks.
Brian
Brian Jardine
L-3 Communications
Operations Project Engineer
640 North 2200 West
P.O.Box 16850
Salt Lake City, UT 84116
L
801-594-3482
brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
Howdy=2C low 'n' slow fliers=3B
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that=2C either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine to
power the bus or recharge the battery=2C does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: electrical system
I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However, in
my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used to power
some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power source is
mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft (i.e.
running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical system. On
the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would not.
Just my opinion!
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
> and
>
> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
> what
>
> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
> either).
>
>
>
> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
> there
>
> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
> to
>
> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
> constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
>
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
> San Antonio, TX
>
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
I think the short answer is yes. You have a source of electrical power and
a distribution system. There are electrical cables, hopefully fuses or
circuit breakers and a load (radio) all installed on the aircraft.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: March 19, 2009 8:17 AM
To: Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that, either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine to
power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you
could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no
alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system". But again,
that's just my memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
> >
>
>
> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
> However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an
> electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in
> the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/
> alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>
> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as
> an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self
> powered unit would not.
>
> Just my opinion!
>
> Ameet
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>> To: "Pietenpol List"
>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>
>>
>>
>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>> and
>>
>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>
>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>
>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>> what
>>
>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>> either).
>>
>>
>>
>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>> there
>>
>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>> to
>>
>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>
>> constitute an electrical system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>>
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>
>> San Antonio, TX
>>
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>>
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
"engine driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and
radio, with no way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true
electrical system per the regs. That's they way it was when I was
restoring things a few years back.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
> >
>
> I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
> My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
> is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you
> could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no
> alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system". But
> again, that's just my memory.
>
> I still recommend we check the regs.
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>>
>> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
>> However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an
>> electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in
>> the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/
>> alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>>
>> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
>> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute
>> as an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a
>> self powered unit would not.
>>
>> Just my opinion!
>>
>> Ameet
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>>
>>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>> To: "Pietenpol List"
>>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>>> and
>>>
>>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>>
>>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>>
>>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>>> what
>>>
>>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>>> either).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>>> there
>>>
>>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>>> to
>>>
>>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>>
>>> constitute an electrical system?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>>
>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>>
>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>
>>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>>>
>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
See Jeff Boatright's paragraph below my signature. Jeff is correct.
That "may" constitute an electrical system depending on
interpretation. Here is some text from AIM. Oscar, I have been
assuming this is a transponder issue but i may be all wet. Would not
be the first time.
From the AIM (4-1-19):
2. In general, the CFR's require aircraft to be equipped with Mode C
transponders when operating:
(a) At or above 10,000 feet MSL over the 48 contiguous states or the
District of Columbia, excluding that airspace below 2,500 feet AGL;
(b) Within 30 miles of a Class B airspace primary airport, below
10,000 feet MSL. Balloons, gliders, and aircraft not equipped with an
engine driven electrical system are excepted from the above
requirements when operating below the floor of Class A airspace and/
or; outside of a Class B airspace and below the ceiling of the Class B
airspace (or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower);
(c) Within and above all Class C airspace, up to 10,000 feet MSL;
(d) Within 10 miles of certain designated airports, excluding that
airspace which is both outside the Class D surface area and below
1,200 feet AGL. Balloons, gliders and aircraft not equipped with an
engine driven electrical system are excepted from this requirement.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> Might be different at various FSDOs, but as per a/c inspected in the
> Atlanta area that I know of, an electrical system must have a
> recharging component (e.g., alternator, generator). Note that it
> need not be engine driven. I am pretty sure that wind-driven
> alternators or generators would get your plane labeled as having an
> electrical system by our FSDO, but I am not certain.
>
> HTH,
>
> Jeff
>
>> In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
>> "engine driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and
>> radio, with no way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a
>> true electrical system per the regs. That's they way it was when I
>> was restoring things a few years back.
>>
>>
>> John Hofmann
>> Vice-President, Information Technology
>> The Rees Group, Inc.
>> 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>> Madison, WI 53718
>> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>> Fax: 608.443.2474
>> Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>>>
>>> My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical
>>> system is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking
>>> that you could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there
>>> was no alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system".
>>> But again, that's just my memory.
>>>
>>> I still recommend we check the regs.
>>>
>>> Wayne Bressler Jr.
>>> Taildraggers, Inc.
>>> taildraggersinc.com
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant
>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these
>>>> cases. However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be
>>>> an electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed"
>>>> in the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical
>>>> (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
>>>> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute
>>>> as an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as
>>>> a self powered unit would not.
>>>>
>>>> Just my opinion!
>>>>
>>>> Ameet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>>>> To: "Pietenpol List"
>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>>>>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>>>>
>>>>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>>>>
>>>>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>>>>> what
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>>>>> either).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>>>>
>>>>> constitute an electrical system?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>>>>
>>>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>>>>
>>>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>>>
>>>>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.matr &n -
>>> &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode C
transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
in flight.
My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few years
back.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is that
you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
irrelevant.
So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
not.
Just my opinion!
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
to
power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.matr
&n - &nbs -->
http://www.matronics.com/co================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: electrical system
"Engine-driven" is the magic phrase. Batteries and turbine generators don't count.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode C
>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>in flight.
>
>
>
>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>
>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few years
>back.
>
>
>
>
>
>John Hofmann
>
>Vice-President, Information Technology
>
>The Rees Group, Inc.
>
>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
>Madison, WI 53718
>
>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
>Fax: 608.443.2474
>
>Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>
>
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
>
>
>
>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is that
>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>
>I still recommend we check the regs.
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>irrelevant.
>
>
>
>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>not.
>
>
>
>Just my opinion!
>
>
>
>Ameet
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>To: "Pietenpol List"
>
>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>
>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>
>and
>
>
>
>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
>
>
>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
>
>
>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>
>what
>
>
>
>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>
>either).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>
>there
>
>
>
>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>
>to
>
>
>
>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
>
>
>constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matr
>&n - &nbs -->
>http://www.matronics.com/co================
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>Email Forum -
>Navigator to browse
>List Un/Subscription,
>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: electrical system
Actually, you could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The rules allow
you to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain, but it gives
you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try contacting the approach
controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll let you in.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode C
>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>in flight.
>
>
>
>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>
>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few years
>back.
>
>
>
>
>
>John Hofmann
>
>Vice-President, Information Technology
>
>The Rees Group, Inc.
>
>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
>Madison, WI 53718
>
>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
>Fax: 608.443.2474
>
>Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>
>
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
>
>
>
>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is that
>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>
>I still recommend we check the regs.
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>irrelevant.
>
>
>
>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>not.
>
>
>
>Just my opinion!
>
>
>
>Ameet
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>To: "Pietenpol List"
>
>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>
>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>
>and
>
>
>
>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
>
>
>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
>
>
>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>
>what
>
>
>
>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>
>either).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>
>there
>
>
>
>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>
>to
>
>
>
>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
>
>
>constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matr
>&n - &nbs -->
>http://www.matronics.com/co================
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>Email Forum -
>Navigator to browse
>List Un/Subscription,
>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
I didn't see that option in the briefing on flying into the Washington ADIZ.
They barely tolerate VFR traffic and I think it would be an enormous battle
to get in without a Transponder.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Actually, you could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The rules
allow you to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain, but it
gives you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try contacting
the approach controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll let
you in.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode
C
>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>in flight.
>
>
>
>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>
>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few
years
>back.
>
>
>
>
>
>John Hofmann
>
>Vice-President, Information Technology
>
>The Rees Group, Inc.
>
>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
>Madison, WI 53718
>
>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
>Fax: 608.443.2474
>
>Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>
>
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
>
>
>
>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is
that
>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>
>I still recommend we check the regs.
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>irrelevant.
>
>
>
>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>not.
>
>
>
>Just my opinion!
>
>
>
>Ameet
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>To: "Pietenpol List"
>
>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>
>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>
>and
>
>
>
>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
>
>
>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
>
>
>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>
>what
>
>
>
>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>
>either).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>
>there
>
>
>
>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>
>to
>
>
>
>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
>
>
>constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matr
>&n - &nbs -->
>http://www.matronics.com/co================
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>Email Forum -
>Navigator to browse
>List Un/Subscription,
>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
Jack wrote-
>Without it=2C I would not have been able to fly it into
>Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
>at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack=2C I have very little doubt that you would still have been
able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
may=2C however=2C have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
"negative xpdr" =3Bo)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transponder
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
You do NOT need a transponder just because you have an electrical system. As long
as you stay out of any class of airspace?that requires one.
I do not have one in my Aeronca Sedan (originally certificated WITH an electrical
system.) ?What frosts me is that, according to the regs,?I cannot go inside
of the 30 mile veil that surrounds Ohare, but if you have an airplane that was
not originally certificated with an electrical system, you can fly inside of
there all day long and even get as close as 5 miles from ORD.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
NX929DH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
well, Jack could have flown into Dulles without a transponder, I have
done it several times no radio and no transponder, it just has to be
coordinated. I am a little surprised that Jack has a transponder on a
battery only -- how long do you get out of it?? I have never tried, but
always thought a transponder drained a battery pretty quickly, too
quickly to be useful, but apparently not.
Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven
electrical system, or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven
electrical system (you can't remove it), you have to have a transponder.
Other than that, you are free. I have been fussed at by towers in
class C airspace for having a radio and no transponder, but I proved
them wrong every time (I kept the regulation cite handy and quoted it to
them)
Gene
building wing like crazy
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Jack wrote-
>Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into
>Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
>at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack, I have very little doubt that you would still have been
able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
may, however, have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
"negative xpdr" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: electrical system
Date: Mar 19, 2009
I'm not so sure about your statement that you must have charging to fly
at night, a number of aircraft are certified and legal to fly at night
on batteries only.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging
in flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a
Mode C transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have
lights and fly at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a
means of recharging in flight.
My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you
may have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running
to the hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I
use it to power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most
important - the Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at
times. Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into Dulles
International Airport last June to put it on display at the
Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
"engine driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and
radio, with no way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true
electrical system per the regs. That's they way it was when I was
restoring things a few years back.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could
have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or
generator, there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my
memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant
> wrote:
>
I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical
system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft.
Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or
chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an
electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self
powered unit would not.
Just my opinion!
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga
> wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga
>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
To: "Pietenpol List"
>
Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
to
power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>
http://www.matr &n -
&nbs -->
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.c
om/co================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
etenpol-List>http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2009
Subject: Re: 4130
From: Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
Speaking of 4130,
1. Is there a source for .25" stock in small pieces?
2. Is this what builders are using for the split axle gear attachment
component which pins the bungee assembly?
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
2009/3/18 Jack Phillips
> Normalized. As for sheet size, it depends on what you are using to cut
> them out. Bandsaw throat depths vary. Many can be cut from strip stock
of
> the appropriate width and thickness. I don=92t think there is a good way
to
> minimize wast, because, if you are like me, you=92ll make at least 3 to g
et 2
> good ones.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:25 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: 4130
>
>
> Group,
>
> In purchasing a sheet of 4130 for my fittings it is offered in =93Anneale
d=94
> or =93Normalized=94 state, which is preferred? Also what size of sheet d
o
> most builders get that can get the number of fitting I need on it?
> Thanks.
>
> Brian
>
>
> *Brian Jardine*
> *L-3 Communications
> **Operations Project Engineer*
> 640 North 2200 West
> P.O.Box 16850
> Salt Lake City, UT 84116
>
> L
>
> 801-594-3482
>
> *brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: electrical system
When I first bought my Cub, I researched this one closely. At the time (early 90's),
there was one company making portable transponders, mostly in service to
the balloon guys. They didn't keep them in stock; they took orders, and when
they had enough they'd make another batch of them. I talked to a few of the local
low-and-slow guys who told me to just forget the whole concept and go flying.
I forgot about the Washington ADIZ; maybe the nordo rules are different there.
I was referring to the rules for classes B and C.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gene Rambo <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 4:09 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>well, Jack could have flown into Dulles without a transponder, I have done it
several times no radio and no transponder, it just has to be coordinated. I am
a little surprised that Jack has a transponder on a battery only -- how long
do you get out of it?? I have never tried, but always thought a transponder
drained a battery pretty quickly, too quickly to be useful, but apparently not.
>
>Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven electrical system,
or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven electrical system (you
can't remove it), you have to have a transponder. Other than that, you are
free. I have been fussed at by towers in class C airspace for having a radio
and no transponder, but I proved them wrong every time (I kept the regulation
cite handy and quoted it to them)
>
>Gene
>building wing like crazy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:48 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
> Jack wrote-
>
> >Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into
> >Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
> >at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
> Jack, I have very little doubt that you would still have been
> able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
> may, however, have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
> sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
> "negative xpdr" ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: You do NOT need a transponder
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
"Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven?electrical system,
or if it was ever?modified to have an engine-driven electrical system (you
can't remove it), you have to have a transponder."
The above statement is not true. Reference FAR part 91.? Read closely and it never
requires a transponder as long as you never penetrate any of the controlled
airspaces indicated.
Dan Helsper
Polar Grove, IL
NX929DH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GR Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re Aileron rigging
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Have just started to rig ailerons.
When Stick is central and ailerons are in neutral both upper & lower
cables are equal in tension.
But when full travel is reached both lower cables slacken off,
particularly on the side of the down going aileron which goes
unacceptably slack.
Has any one else had this problem & what is the fix,
I believe that the geometry of the horns is wrong, have experimented
with several different shaped horns on the ailerons with out success.
Thanks Graham Hewitt
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 19, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re Aileron rigging
Grahm, I believe our piet does the same thing.- It is less severe with th
e air load on the ailerons.- Ours are rigged with just a little droop on
the ground, but are "neutral" in flight.- You will probably find the elev
ator cables to do the same thing.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re Aileron rigging
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2009
If the ailerons are in line with the wing on the ground then the aileron cables
are probably too tight. The top cable will be a little tighter than the bottom
because it is carrying the weight of the ailerons. The bottom cables, which
come down to the stick, will be slack. The aileron trailing edge will hang
below the wing trailing edge maybe 3/16" or so. In flight the lower aileron cables
will tighten up and the ailerons are just about in line with the wing.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235368#235368
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Re Aileron rigging
You should have your ailerons drooping on both sides about a 1/2 in. to an
inch for wash out at the neutral position.At this time I forget what wash o
ut is for but I'm sure someone will chime in and tell you.I'm getting old a
nd forgetting things these days.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:21:42 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re:
mchAir(at)aol.com>=0A=0AIf the ailerons are in line with the wing on the groun
d then the aileron cables are probably too tight.- The top cable will be
a little tighter than the bottom because it is carrying the weight of the a
ilerons.- The bottom cables, which come down to the stick, will be slack.
- The aileron trailing edge will hang below the wing trailing edge maybe
3/16" or so.- In flight the lower aileron cables will tighten up and the
ailerons are just about in line with the wing.- =0A=0ADon Emch=0ANX899DE
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Russian Piet
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Just recieved these from Valdimir Buroga. In Russia. Thought you might find
them interesting. Looks like in additon to the ovesized rudder it is also
wider than standard. And how about that prop? engine is a Suzuki. Note the
absence of a tail number.
Michael in Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Russian Piet
Since the rudder does not match the vert. stab. at the top, I say that it i
s a doner from another plane.- This plane has the "encased" ailerons like
I am building into my plane, though my wing tip is quite different.- Sor
ta odd to see a piet pic. in the snow...most are in sunny warm weather...ve
ry cool. (no pun intended)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: re: Russian piet
Date: Mar 20, 2009
a few more here.
note the intermediate arangement on the rudder.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Turnbuckle Question
From: "jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2009
The Piet drawings we're using call for 325-SF and 326-SF turnbuckles. I'm assuming
one of them equates to an AN130-16S assembly of which I have one of. Is this
the 325 or the 326? What is the AN equivalent of the other?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235410#235410
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re Aileron rigging
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2009
The ailerons are really just hanging down because of their own weight and the fact
that the cables really can't tighten up that much or binding will occur.
Pretty common with the cable systems on the older ships. Drooping very much in
flight would actually create some wash-in, which is something we do not want.
Wash-in no, wash-out yes.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235414#235414
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Re Aileron rigging
Date: Mar 20, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Mar 20, 2009
If the heat and cold hurt them while their in your garage, just think
what will happen to them while their on your plane in and out of the
hanger.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no where else
to store them once built, so I guess they are both going to have to stay
in the garage until ready for covering. I just hoped the heat/cold would
not hurt them. (winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor
wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement ceiling.
The wood for that wing had been in the heated basement for two years.
The other day when getting ready to store my second wing I noticed quite
a few loose bolts on the first one. I had no idea the wood dried out
and shrunk that much after storing in the controlled atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: You do NOT need a transponder
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Ya know, Dan, I was referring to the instances when everyone was saying
you need a transponder, not in EVERY instance. Don't be so literal, my
statement is correct.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com<mailto:helspersew(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: You do NOT need a transponder
"Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven
electrical system, or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven
electrical system (you can't remove it), you have to have a
transponder."
The above statement is not true. Reference FAR part 91. Read closely
and it never requires a transponder as long as you never penetrate any
of the controlled airspaces indicated.
Dan Helsper
Polar Grove, IL
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Remember wash-in your adding lift (increasing angle of attack, or really in
cidence i guess), and wash-out is taking lift out, (reducing angle of attac
k.)- The reason for adding wash OUT, is to prevent the wing tip from stal
ling first, and violently, rolling left or right at the stall (falling off)
.- Wash out lets the inboard portion of the wing stall first, making it g
entler.- Also it keeps the outboard portion of the wing flying, and helps
keep aileron authority in the stall.
-
Just a quick and simple way to remember the two.
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Date: Mar 21, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Wonder if anyone is getting anything in these e-mails? I'm only getting a
blank page.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:01:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Russian Piet
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: Mar 20, 2009
In the picture of the Piet during construction, it appeared to have the conventional
tail. And the flying pictures, man I get cold just looking at them. We
gotta get this guy to Brodhead.
Paul N. Peckham
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235450#235450
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Al Hays <alhays(at)hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Date: Mar 20, 2009
I frequently get a blank page originating from folks whose email
addresses are on bellsouth.net and find that the text can only be
viewed by viewing raw source.
Al
On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
>
>
> Wonder if anyone is getting anything in these e-mails? I'm only
> getting a blank page.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 19:01:00
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2009
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Some progress made
Hello everybody!!
-
Here are some pictures showing the progress made in the past months.
We're still working on most of those items and-a few more things.
I hope you all are fine
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0ARecetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludab
le=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Some progress made
From: "TOPGUN" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net>
Date: Mar 20, 2009
what radiator did you use?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235461#235461
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joemotis(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Subject: Re: Some progress made
Beautiful work!!!
What kind of wood did you use for the prop?
Also, what kind of glue?
Thanks for the great Pics
Joe Motis
WW Corvair
Helping a friend assemble his Piet working on controls
No Archivos
In a message dated 3/20/2009 7:20:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar writes:
Hello everybody!!
Here are some pictures showing the progress made in the past months.
We're still working on most of those items and a few more things.
I hope you all are fine
Saludos
Santiago
____________________________________
Yahoo! Cocina
Recetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable
Visit=E1 http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 o
r
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Subject: Re: Russian Piet
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Here's the gentleman's Youtube channel, with a couple short videos of his
Piet. One is a slideshow of pics, one is taxi testing (well, doing donuts
may be more accurate), and a fly-over.
http://www.youtube.com/user/VLADIMIRBUGOGA
Ryan
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Paul N. Peckham
wrote:
> peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
>
> In the picture of the Piet during construction, it appeared to have the
> conventional tail. And the flying pictures, man I get cold just looking at
> them. We gotta get this guy to Brodhead.
>
> Paul N. Peckham
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 20, 2009
Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and control? Untwisted Hershey
bar wings tend to have a stall progressing from the center out.
On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey bar wing can make the
spanwise lift distribution closer to the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thus
decreasing the induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wing
requires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to tip, with the rate
of change in incidence increasing as you go out toward the tip. Just to complicate
our lives, the ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changes
with the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift coefficient, the more twist
required - so you have to pick the flight speed at which you want to minimize
the induced drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most planes spend
the vast majority of their lives at cruise.
It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue and crunched any numbers,
but if memory serves me correctly you could do the following and be close to the
ideal twist distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking only at
the semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the inner part flat and put in
a linear twist distribution over the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (starting
just outside the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip incidence
is -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the root.
Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A engine, you would want to
go with the -2 deg, or even -3 deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruise
speed wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect just putting
you back at about the same induced drag as the untwisted wing) but would help
at the higher lift coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpol
can be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution to optimize for a
speed other than cruising speed.)
If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and papers on aerodynamics
and figure out the best twist distributions for cruise and for climb.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235478#235478
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Santiago's progress
Date: Mar 21, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Wow! Santiago your work is exquisite especially like the way you brought-up the
steel firewall onto the tray area behind the Model A. Not easy to do but you
made it look easy. Is this the same prop that you carved originally? A beautiful
work of art, to be sure.
Dan Helsper
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 21, 2009
That would be some great information to have
John
------Original Message------
From: Mild Bill
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mar 21, 2009 12:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and control? Untwisted Hershey
bar wings tend to have a stall progressing from the center out.
On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey bar wing can make the
spanwise lift distribution closer to the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thus
decreasing the induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wing
requires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to tip, with the rate
of change in incidence increasing as you go out toward the tip. Just to complicate
our lives, the ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changes
with the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift coefficient, the more twist
required - so you have to pick the flight speed at which you want to minimize
the induced drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most planes spend
the vast majority of their lives at cruise.
It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue and crunched any numbers,
but if memory serves me correctly you could do the following and be close to the
ideal twist distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking only at
the semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the inner part flat and put in
a linear twist distribution over the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (starting
just outside the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip incidence
is -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the root.
Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A engine, you would want to
go with the -2 deg, or even -3 deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruise
speed wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect just putting
you back at about the same induced drag as the untwisted wing) but would help
at the higher lift coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpol
can be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution to optimize for a
speed other than cruising speed.)
If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and papers on aerodynamics
and figure out the best twist distributions for cruise and for climb.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235478#235478
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Some progress made
Date: Mar 21, 2009
WOW!!!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Some progress made
Hello everybody!!
Here are some pictures showing the progress made in the past
months.
We're still working on most of those items and a few more
things.
I hope you all are fine
Saludos
Santiago
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Yahoo! Cocina
Recetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable
Visit=E1 http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/20/09 19:01:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bracing wire
From: "jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 21, 2009
The piet plans call for 13 ga. wire to be used for the drag and antidrag brace
wires. What diameter is that in inches? I'm finding a range of .072 to .091 depending
on where I look.
Thanks
--------
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235502#235502
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2009
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Please read a counter point here http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=170
Ameet
--- On Sat, 3/21/09, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote:
> From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 7:43 AM
>
> That would be some great information to have
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mild Bill
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Mar 21, 2009 12:33 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
> Bill"
>
> Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and
> control? Untwisted Hershey bar wings tend to have a stall
> progressing from the center out.
>
> On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey
> bar wing can make the spanwise lift distribution closer to
> the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thus decreasing the
> induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wing
> requires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to
> tip, with the rate of change in incidence increasing as you
> go out toward the tip. Just to complicate our lives, the
> ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changes
> with the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift
> coefficient, the more twist required - so you have to pick
> the flight speed at which you want to minimize the induced
> drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most
> planes spend the vast majority of their lives at cruise.
>
> It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue
> and crunched any numbers, but if memory serves me correctly
> you could do the following and be close to the ideal twist
> distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking
> only at the semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the
> inner part flat and put in a linear twist distribution over
> the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (starting just outside
> the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip
> incidence is -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the
> root.
>
> Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A
> engine, you would want to go with the -2 deg, or even -3
> deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruise speed
> wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect
> just putting you back at about the same induced drag as the
> untwisted wing) but would help at the higher lift
> coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpol
> can be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution
> to optimize for a speed other than cruising speed.)
>
> If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and
> papers on aerodynamics and figure out the best twist
> distributions for cruise and for climb.
>
> --------
> Bill Frank
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235478#235478
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Bracing wire
Date: Mar 21, 2009
American Wire Gauge (AWG) says .072.
Imperial Standard Wire Gauge (British Standard, SWG) says .092.
I would think that BP used AWG.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimbir
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bracing wire
The piet plans call for 13 ga. wire to be used for the drag and antidrag
brace wires. What diameter is that in inches? I'm finding a range of .072
to .091 depending on where I look.
Thanks
--------
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235502#235502
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 21, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Bare wood wing storage
I meant as a bare wood wing. I would have no concers once covered, with the
drag cables in place.
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Gene & Tammy wrote:
From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:30 PM
If the heat and cold hurt them while their in your garage, just think what
will happen to them while their on your plane in and out of the hanger.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no where else to store the
m once built, so I guess they are both going to have to stay in the garage
until ready for covering. I just hoped the heat/cold would not hurt them. (
winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 #yiv856241227 P.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 LI.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 DIV.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman";}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 A:link {
COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 A:visited {
COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 PRE {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:"Courier New";}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 SPAN.EmailStyle18 {
COLOR:navy;FONT-FAMILY:Arial;}
#yiv245429149 UNKNOWN {
MARGIN:1in 1.25in;}
#yiv245429149 #yiv856241227 DIV.Section1 {
}
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement ceiling.- The wood f
or that wing had been in the heated basement for two years.- The other da
y when getting ready to store my second wing I noticed quite a few loose bo
lts on the first one.- I had no idea the wood dried out and shrunk that m
uch after storing in the controlled atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
-
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
3/17/2009 12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Date: Mar 21, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Date: Mar 21, 2009
still no msg.
----- Original Message -----
From: <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:01:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Bare wood wing storage
Date: Mar 21, 2009
With a good coat of varnish I would think it should be well protected.
My two cents worth.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
I meant as a bare wood wing. I would have no concers once
covered, with the drag cables in place.
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Gene & Tammy
wrote:
From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:30 PM
If the heat and cold hurt them while their in your garage,
just think what will happen to them while their on your plane in and out
of the hanger.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no
where else to store them once built, so I guess they are both going to
have to stay in the garage until ready for covering. I just hoped the
heat/cold would not hurt them. (winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor
wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement
ceiling. The wood for that wing had been in the heated basement for two
years. The other day when getting ready to store my second wing I
noticed quite a few loose bolts on the first one. I had no idea the
wood dried out and shrunk that much after storing in the controlled
atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3/17/2009 12:00 AM
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/20/09 19:01:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 21, 2009
Amsafetyc wrote:
> That would be some great information to have
>
> John
> ---
OK. I'm going on vacation, so it may be a little over a week before I can submit
the details.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235592#235592
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
From: "Mild Bill" <whfrank(at)charter.net>
Date: Mar 21, 2009
ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Please read a counter point here http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=170
>
> Ameet
You've got me scratching my head here - counterpoint to what? No one in this thread
was advocating tapered wings for Pietenpols.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235593#235593
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Bill,
I thought you were suggesting that a wash-out would help the Piet to gain some
performance. Typically, wash-out is used to prevent the tips from stalling before
the root of the wing does. Tapered wing spans need a wash-out to "adjust"
this stalling pattern.
Also, the elliptical lift pattern is often quoted as ideal. All aerodynamic texts
suggest that therefore, an elliptical wing planform must be ideal. However,
there is a group of people who don't believe an elliptical planform is necessarily
ideal.
That article from Peter Garrison goes into some of these outside the mainstream
belief concepts and tries to de-construct them. It may not directly have a counter-point
to what you were suggesting (or what I understood you were suggesting),
but I thought it was relevant to your efforts as a devil's advocate.
I hope I haven't mis-understood anything :)
Looking forward to some of your numbers.
Regards.
Ameet
--- On Sun, 3/22/09, Mild Bill wrote:
> From: Mild Bill <whfrank(at)charter.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, March 22, 2009, 1:38 AM
> Bill"
>
>
> ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> > Please read a counter point here
> http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=170
> >
> > Ameet
>
> You've got me scratching my head here - counterpoint to
> what? No one in this thread was advocating tapered wings for
> Pietenpols.
>
> --------
> Bill Frank
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235593#235593
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: how do I view photos
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Hey everybody,
When people post photos, I don't get a link of anything like that. When I
go to "matronics photo share", the most current photo is Steve Eldridge's
patch photos from months ago. I''d love to keep up with everybody's
progress, and maybe even post some of my own, so I thought I'd better ask.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Santiago's pics
Will somebody explain to me how to view Santiago's pictures? I use the dige
st option for the list which I understand won't allow me to view pics in th
e text.......sometimes. But there must be a way to view pics some way.
-
I'm still having a problem with some of AMASAFETY's posts which come throug
h as @&B>;??[(V%84-+ well, something like that and it goes on forever.
-
Help will be appreciated and will get you a free habdshake at Brodhead if y
ou can solve this virtual problem for me.
-
Helpless in AR-
Larry- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: how do I view photos
At 06:01 AM 3/22/2009 Sunday, you wrote:
>
>Hey everybody,
>
>When people post photos, I don't get a link of anything like that. When I
>go to "matronics photo share", the most current photo is Steve Eldridge's
>patch photos from months ago. I''d love to keep up with everybody's
>progress, and maybe even post some of my own, so I thought I'd better ask.
>
>Douwe
The photos should be attached to the email. You can also view them via the Forum
at:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=7
Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: how do I view photos
It depends on the size of the photo or jpg.If it is too large it will kick
you out and not accept.VGA is usually your best bet for size and you can se
nd quite a few photo's that way.The only thing wrong with VGA is when you g
o to print them or use them in a magazine they are too small and the pictur
e is too small.I have a great picture of myself and my GN-1 aircraft in fli
ght on a fly past but it is much to large to send and I'm not that knowlega
ble about how to shrink it down for sending.I know there is a way to do it.
I was told once but I had no paper or pen to write the procedure down.Maybe
someone on the web might know how to do this.The other thing that I was wo
rried about is will the original sized picture be lost if I do this?=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Matt Dralle <dralle@matro
nics.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, March 22, 2009
11:17:10 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how do I view photos=0A=0A--> P
ietenpol-List message posted by: Matt Dralle =0A=0AAt
06:01 AM 3/22/2009- Sunday, you wrote:=0A>--> Pietenpol-List message pos
ted by: "Douwe Blumberg" =0A>=0A>Hey everybody
,=0A>=0A>When people post photos, I don't get a link of anything like that.
- When I=0A>go to "matronics photo share", the most current photo is Stev
e Eldridge's=0A>patch photos from months ago.- I''d love to keep up with
everybody's=0A>progress, and maybe even post some of my own, so I thought I
'd better ask.=0A>=0A>Douwe=0A=0AThe photos should be attached to the email
.- You can also view them via the Forum at:=0A=0A- - - - http://f
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: please ignore this email test as I experiment - explorer
Date: Mar 22, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Gene, you are right that the transponder drains the battery pretty quickly.
I've got an 18 Amp-Hour battery and it will run the comm radio and GPS for
several days, or the transponder for a few hours. I typically only turn the
transponder on when going into Class C or Class B airspace, and turn it off
as soon as I'm clear of them. Yes, you can enter such airspace without it,
but it take so much telephone coordination and casuses so much confusion I'd
rather just use the transponder. Besides, it's fun to call up approach
control and just call yourself an experimental, then throttle it back to
about 45 mph indicated and ask them for a groundspeed check.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
well, Jack could have flown into Dulles without a transponder, I have done
it several times no radio and no transponder, it just has to be coordinated.
I am a little surprised that Jack has a transponder on a battery only -- how
long do you get out of it?? I have never tried, but always thought a
transponder drained a battery pretty quickly, too quickly to be useful, but
apparently not.
Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven electrical
system, or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven electrical
system (you can't remove it), you have to have a transponder. Other than
that, you are free. I have been fussed at by towers in class C airspace for
having a radio and no transponder, but I proved them wrong every time (I
kept the regulation cite handy and quoted it to them)
Gene
building wing like crazy
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga <mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Jack wrote-
>Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into
>Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
>at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack, I have very little doubt that you would still have been
able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
may, however, have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
"negative xpdr" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: email test from airlion - please ignore
Date: Mar 22, 2009
email test from airlion = please ignore 6:02 PM
plain text (not rich text)
sent from ATT email webmail - explorer not mozilla
email ID = airlion(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: 2nd email test from airlion -please ignore
Date: Mar 22, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: can ya'll read this email
Date: Mar 22, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: trying again! can you read this?
Date: Mar 22, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Subject: Re: trying again! can you read this?
From: Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
yes.
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:37 PM, wrote:
>
>
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: email test again - Gary Booth - can you read this
Date: Mar 23, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Subject: Re: how do I view photos
From: Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
here is the least common denominator for shrinking a photo in windows down
to approximately 800x600 pixels (a reasonable emailing size in my opinion):
Assumptions: this is a landscape format photo
0. Make a copy of the picture, giving it a descriptive name, like
"mypiet-small.jpg"
1. Open the copy in mspaint.
This can usually be done with a right click->edit
2. In the Image menu, choose attributes.
4. Divide 800 by the number in the width box, multiply by 100 for a
percentage. Close attributes dialog.
5. Back to the image menu, choose stretch/skew.
6. Enter the percentage from step 4 in both horizontal and vertical boxes.
7. Save the copy and email it to your pals on the pietenpol-list.
Andrew Eldredge
Sahuarita AZ
NX7229R coming back together
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM, H RULE wrote:
> It depends on the size of the photo or jpg.If it is too large it will kick
> you out and not accept.VGA is usually your best bet for size and you can
> send quite a few photo's that way.The only thing wrong with VGA is when you
> go to print them or use them in a magazine they are too small and the
> picture is too small.I have a great picture of myself and my GN-1 aircraft
> in flight on a fly past but it is much to large to send and I'm not that
> knowlegable about how to shrink it down for sending.I know there is a way to
> do it.I was told once but I had no paper or pen to write the procedure
> down.Maybe someone on the web might know how to do this.The other thing that
> I was worried about is will the original sized picture be lost if I do this?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Matt Dralle
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:17:10 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: how do I view photos
>
>
> At 06:01 AM 3/22/2009 Sunday, you wrote:
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
> >
> >Hey everybody,
> >
> >When people post photos, I don't get a link of anything like that. When I
> >go to "matronics photo share", the most current photo is Steve Eldridge's
> >patch photos from months ago. I''d love to keep up with everybody's
> >progress, and maybe even post some of my own, so I thought I'd better ask.
> >
> >Douwe
>
> The photos should be attached to the email. You can also view them via the
> Forum at:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/vics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> _f="http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>
> http://forums.matronics.nbsp; onics.com/contribution"
> ======
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: email test again - Gary Booth - can you read this
Date: Mar 22, 2009
No sir.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:11 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: email test again - Gary Booth - can you read this
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: email test from airlion - please ignore
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Of all the messages you sent, this is the only one that was readable,
so whatever you were doing on this message, keep doing it.
Kip Gardner
On Mar 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> email test from airlion = please ignore 6:02 PM
> plain text (not rich text)
> sent from ATT email webmail - explorer not mozilla
> email ID = airlion(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 22, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: how do I view photos
If all went well and I think it did you will see the pic on the reply of th
is message.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Andrew M
Eldredge =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:11:17 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how
do I view photos=0A=0Ahere is the least common denominator for shrinking a
photo in windows down to approximately 800x600 pixels (a reasonable emailin
g size in my opinion): =0A=0AAssumptions: this is a landscape format photo
=0A=0A0. Make a copy of the picture, giving it a descriptive name, like "my
piet-small.jpg"=0A=0A1. Open the copy in mspaint.=0A-- This can usually
be done with a right click->edit=0A=0A2. In the Image menu, choose attribu
tes.=0A=0A4. Divide 800 by the number in the width box, multiply by 100 for
a percentage.- Close attributes dialog.=0A=0A5. Back to the image menu,
choose stretch/skew.=0A=0A6. Enter the percentage from step 4 in both horiz
ontal and vertical boxes.=0A=0A7. Save the copy and email it to your pals o
n the pietenpol-list.=0A=0AAndrew Eldredge=0ASahuarita AZ=0ANX7229R coming
back together=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM, H RULE wrote:=0A=0AIt depends on the size of the photo or jpg.If it
is too large it will kick you out and not accept.VGA is usually your best
bet for size and you can send quite a few photo's that way.The only thing w
rong with VGA is when you go to print them or use them in a magazine they a
re too small and the picture is too small.I have a great picture of myself
and my GN-1 aircraft in flight on a fly past but it is much to large to sen
d and I'm not that knowlegable about how to shrink it down for sending.I kn
ow there is a way to do it.I was told once but I had no paper or pen to wri
te the procedure down.Maybe someone on the web might know how to do this.Th
e other thing that I was worried about is will the original sized picture b
e lost if I do this?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
Matt Dralle =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASe
nt: Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:17:10 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how d
dralle(at)matronics.com>=0A=0AAt 06:01 AM 3/22/2009- Sunday, you wrote:=0A>-
ink.net>=0A>=0A>Hey everybody,=0A>=0A>When people post photos, I don't get
a link of anything like that.- When I=0A>go to "matronics photo share", t
he most current photo is Steve Eldridge's=0A>patch photos from months ago.
- I''d love to keep up with everybody's=0A>progress, and maybe even post
some of my own, so I thought I'd better ask.=0A>=0A>Douwe=0A=0AThe photos s
hould be attached to the email.- You can also view them via the Forum at:
=0A=0A- - - - http://forums.matronics.com/vics.com/Navigator?Pieten
pol-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A_f="http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matron
ics.nbsp; - - - - - - - - - -onics.com/contribution"
========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A" target="_blank">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">
http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0AAndrew M. Eldr
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: can ya'll read this email
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2009
I got nothing
------Original Message------
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mar 22, 2009 7:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: can ya'll read this email
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: trying again! can you read this?
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2009
Nope
------Original Message------
From: Andrew M Eldredge
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mar 22, 2009 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: trying again! can you read this?
yes.
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 4:37 PM, > wrote:
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Subject: Re: trying again! can you read this?
no
In a message dated 3/22/2009 6:39:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
airlion(at)bellsouth.net writes:
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 22, 2009
Subject: Re: email test again - Gary Booth - can you read this
still invisable ink.
In a message dated 3/22/2009 7:12:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
airlion(at)bellsouth.net writes:
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: how do I view photos
Date: Mar 23, 2009
Great shot!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: H RULE
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how do I view photos
If all went well and I think it did you will see the pic on the reply
of this message.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how do I view photos
here is the least common denominator for shrinking a photo in windows
down to approximately 800x600 pixels (a reasonable emailing size in my
opinion):
Assumptions: this is a landscape format photo
0. Make a copy of the picture, giving it a descriptive name, like
"mypiet-small.jpg"
1. Open the copy in mspaint.
This can usually be done with a right click->edit
2. In the Image menu, choose attributes.
4. Divide 800 by the number in the width box, multiply by 100 for a
percentage. Close attributes dialog.
5. Back to the image menu, choose stretch/skew.
6. Enter the percentage from step 4 in both horizontal and vertical
boxes.
7. Save the copy and email it to your pals on the pietenpol-list.
Andrew Eldredge
Sahuarita AZ
NX7229R coming back together
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 9:15 AM, H RULE
wrote:
It depends on the size of the photo or jpg.If it is too large it
will kick you out and not accept.VGA is usually your best bet for size
and you can send quite a few photo's that way.The only thing wrong with
VGA is when you go to print them or use them in a magazine they are too
small and the picture is too small.I have a great picture of myself and
my GN-1 aircraft in flight on a fly past but it is much to large to send
and I'm not that knowlegable about how to shrink it down for sending.I
know there is a way to do it.I was told once but I had no paper or pen
to write the procedure down.Maybe someone on the web might know how to
do this.The other thing that I was worried about is will the original
sized picture be lost if I do this?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:17:10 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how do I view photos
At 06:01 AM 3/22/2009 Sunday, you wrote:
>
>Hey everybody,
>
>When people post photos, I don't get a link of anything like that.
When I
>go to "matronics photo share", the most current photo is Steve
Eldridge's
>patch photos from months ago. I''d love to keep up with
everybody's
>progress, and maybe even post some of my own, so I thought I'd
better ask.
>
>Douwe
The photos should be attached to the email. You can also view them
via the Forum at:
http://forums.matronics.com/vics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
_f="http://forums.matronics.com/"
target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.nbsp;
onics.com/contribution" ======
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
http://www.matronics.c=================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/22/09 17:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: how do I view photos
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2009
Is that Dick Dastardly of the Wacky Races?
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235809#235809
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: electrical system
Date: Mar 23, 2009
FAR 91.215 says: ... 3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section,
any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven
electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a
system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace
within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of
this part provided such operations are conducted-
(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and
(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area
designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and...
So that covers the transponder installation. If you have an engine driven
system, you have to have a transponder (and use it).
As for lights for night-flying, FAR 91.205 says: ... c) Visual flight rules
(night). For VFR flight at night, the following instruments and equipment
are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(2) Approved position lights.
(3) An approved aviation red or aviation white anticollision light system on
all U.S.-registered civil aircraft. Anticollision light systems initially
installed after August 11, 1971, on aircraft for which a type certificate
was issued or applied for before August 11, 1971, must at least meet the
anticollision light standards of part 23, 25, 27, or 29 of this chapter, as
applicable, that were in effect on August 10, 1971, except that the color
may be either aviation red or aviation white. In the event of failure of any
light of the anticollision light system, operations with the aircraft may be
continued to a stop where repairs or replacement can be made.
(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.
(5) An adequate source of electrical energy for all installed electrical and
radio equipment.
(6) One spare set of fuses, or three spare fuses of each kind required, that
are accessible to the pilot in flight.
To me, that does not sound like a generator since a battery can be a source
of electrical energy. Before trying it with just a battery though, I'd ask
your local FSDO.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Bressler
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you
could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no
alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system". But again,
that's just my memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant wrote:
> >
>
>
> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
> However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an
> electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in
> the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/
> alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>
> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as
> an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self
> powered unit would not.
>
> Just my opinion!
>
> Ameet
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>> To: "Pietenpol List"
>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>
>>
>>
>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>> and
>>
>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>
>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>
>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>> what
>>
>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>> either).
>>
>>
>>
>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>> there
>>
>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>> to
>>
>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>
>> constitute an electrical system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>>
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>
>> San Antonio, TX
>>
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>>
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Straight Axle gear
Ok, now that I have both wings done, I'm moving on to the gear.- I'm buil
ding the straight axle gear and I've made a jig that holds the axle in the
proper location.-- I want a little reassurance that I understand a coup
le things before I start to build.- My questions regard the ash blocks.
My understanding is that the ash blocks, when the plane sits on the ground
are parallel with the ground and that if they were long they would cross at
the tailwheel location.- I also understand that the space in the "V" sho
uld be just the width of the axle.-
Are my understandings correct?
Thanks for your help.--
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Straight Axle gear
Date: Mar 23, 2009
You're right on the money, Mike. I suggest you make your gear struts out of
cheap pine first and make sure everything fits before cutting expesnive
spruce.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 4:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear
Ok, now that I have both wings done, I'm moving on to the gear. I'm
building the straight axle gear and I've made a jig that holds the axle in
the proper location. I want a little reassurance that I understand a
couple things before I start to build. My questions regard the ash blocks.
My understanding is that the ash blocks, when the plane sits on the ground
are parallel with the ground and that if they were long they would cross at
the tailwheel location. I also understand that the space in the "V" should
be just the width of the axle.
Are my understandings correct?
Thanks for your help.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2009
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Some progress made
Thanks everyone for the generous words!
The radiator is from a VW car called Senda here (Argentina). It-weighs ab
out 4 pounds-and-is very inexpensive. We don't know if-is going to wo
rk properly, but we-will try it.
Joe, we used local woods for the prop.- The dark wood is a kind of cedar
called Cancharana, and the other wood is Guatambu, very similar to Birch.
- It is glued with epoxi, we used Araldit AW 106 for the prop and every p
iece of wood in the Piet.- Excellent adhesive.
Saludos
-
Santiago-=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0ARecetas pr=E1cticas y comida salu
dable=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2009
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Santiago's progress
Thanks Dan and Tim!!
I think the key to a beautiful work is sending low-resolution photos : )
Yes Dan, is the same prop.- It needs some more work-because is not prop
erly balanced yet.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0ARecetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludab
le=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: electrical system, waivers
Group, Not to be the devils advocate,- I am told with some fsdo's it it f
airly easy to get a waiver for NOT having a transponder even with an elect.
system.- But if you plan on regularly going into Class B, C , (or want t
o make your airplane IFR, RVSM compliant, you jet pilots out there know wha
t that is , ha ha) you should probably just put a Xponder in, for simplicit
ie's sake.- I personally don't care for big airports, probably because I
work at one all day long, But I might see what it takes to organize a fligh
t to work into CMH's class C airspace with no transponder, and see how acco
midating they are.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lets clean it up
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2009
Im a new user here, and while Im not trying to complain, it seems that some could
use a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. Lets get right to
it
The preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads asking
if we can see something use the preview button if you can see it, we can too.
If not, work on your post before you submit it, otherwise it will just clutter
up the boards.
Here is a big one photos! Of course we all like to share them, but how? Well,
that depends on the location of the image file. If the image file you want to
share is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to use the button in
order to upload your image. This will publish your photo in the large frame with
the file name, size and type up top. We have all seen em.
On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Aviation/P2223494.JPG[/img]. Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila!
That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need to save
and upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right click on it
and choose properties. You will find the address information there. Go ahead
and test that feature on my photo above.
Here is another problem starting new threads where a simple reply would suffice.
In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the posts. To reply
to the comments in this post, click the reply button. If you click New Thread,
you will start an entirely new thread that many will not realize is a response
to the other thread. It is best to keep conversation in the related thread.
Only start a new thread if you have an original comment or question. This
also helps to improve the search function. For example, if I were to search
for electrical system or transponder, I would likely receive a ton of results,
many of which would be from the past week although all of those threads were
in response to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversation
on a particular thread within that thread. Im not saying that if someone
wants to ask a question about a transponder that they be required to go back
to the very first transponder thread and add to it not at all. If someone
has a question, by all means, ask away but anyone who wants to respond to that
topic, in reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread,
they should do so in the existing thread dont start a new one just because
you want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may not even know
what you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your response standing
all alone in its own thread will appear as another separate thread when someone
performs a search not very helpful.
Anyhow, Im not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause some constructive
debate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a member of several
forums. All are useful due to the fact that many of those that frequent to
boards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy comes along he can answer a lot
of his own questions but searching the boards. The less cluttered they are,
the more useful they will be. Otherwise, people cant find answers if they exist,
resulting in repetitive questions popping up over and over. Im sure there
are some common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that the
answers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject.
Here are a few easy commands that you may find handy
insert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]
insert photo from PC = use button
insert web address = [url]web address[/url] (example ), or type the address in full, http://www.matronics.com
insert e-mail address = address
Another thing that clutters up a thread repetitive quotes? I can understand a
quote if you actually quote someone elses post, but why the repetitive quotes?
Some of you have this mess in every reply
Quote 1
Quote 2
Quote 3
Quote 4
etc.
What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as possible so
no one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no useful purpose, you
ought to clean it up. A signature is one thing a mess on the other hand is
not very appealing to readers.
Just my 2 cents Ill stop for now. Ive been reading the forums for several weeks
now, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I construct my Piet,
but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it a more reader friendly
and useful forum.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235889#235889
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Lost the intent, what's this have to do with building and or flying a Piet?
Thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:20:10
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up
Im a new user here, and while Im not trying to complain, it seems that some could
use a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. Lets get right to
it
The preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads asking
if we can see something use the preview button if you can see it, we can too.
If not, work on your post before you submit it, otherwise it will just clutter
up the boards.
Here is a big one photos! Of course we all like to share them, but how? Well,
that depends on the location of the image file. If the image file you want to
share is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to use the button in
order to upload your image. This will publish your photo in the large frame with
the file name, size and type up top. We have all seen em.
On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Aviation/P2223494.JPG[/img]. Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila!
That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need to save
and upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right click on it
and choose properties. You will find the address information there. Go ahead
and test that feature on my photo above.
Here is another problem starting new threads where a simple reply would suffice.
In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the posts. To reply
to the comments in this post, click the reply button. If you click New Thread,
you will start an entirely new thread that many will not realize is a response
to the other thread. It is best to keep conversation in the related thread.
Only start a new thread if you have an original comment or question. This
also helps to improve the search function. For example, if I were to search
for electrical system or transponder, I would likely receive a ton of results,
many of which would be from the past week although all of those threads were
in response to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversation
on a particular thread within that thread. Im not saying that if someone
wants to ask a question about a transponder that they be required to go back
to the very first transponder thread and add to it not at all. If someone
has a question, by all means, ask away but anyone who wants to respond to that
topic, in reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread,
they should do so in the existing thread dont start a new one just because
you want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may not even know
what you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your response standing
all alone in its own thread will appear as another separate thread when someone
performs a search not very helpful.
Anyhow, Im not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause some constructive
debate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a member of several
forums. All are useful due to the fact that many of those that frequent to
boards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy comes along he can answer a lot
of his own questions but searching the boards. The less cluttered they are,
the more useful they will be. Otherwise, people cant find answers if they exist,
resulting in repetitive questions popping up over and over. Im sure there
are some common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that the
answers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject.
Here are a few easy commands that you may find handy
insert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]
insert photo from PC = use button
insert web address = [url]web address[/url] (example ), or type the address in full, http://www.matronics.com
insert e-mail address = address
Another thing that clutters up a thread repetitive quotes? I can understand a
quote if you actually quote someone elses post, but why the repetitive quotes?
Some of you have this mess in every reply
Quote 1
Quote 2
Quote 3
Quote 4
etc.
What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as possible so
no one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no useful purpose, you
ought to clean it up. A signature is one thing a mess on the other hand is
not very appealing to readers.
Just my 2 cents Ill stop for now. Ive been reading the forums for several weeks
now, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I construct my Piet,
but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it a more reader friendly
and useful forum.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235889#235889
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2009
It has nothing to do with building or flying a Piet, rather it has to do with providing
a more useful resource to those that are building, discussing or flying
a Piet. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? I'm sure this etiquette could
be applied to the entire Matronics Forum, but as a Piet builder I am more concerned
about the Pietenpol List, so I posted it here.
Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable time savers,
used improperly they can hinder, or be totally useless.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235898#235898
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joemotis(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Not a Damn thing.
"I=99m a new user here" Are you from the government and here to help
also
Mark?
Joe Motis
Working on rudder cables and control sticks
no archivos
In a message dated 3/23/2009 6:36:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Lost the intent, what's this have to do with building and or flying a Piet
?
Thanks
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:20:10
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up
I=99m a new user here, and while I=99m not trying to complain,
it seems that
some could use a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. Let
=99s get
right to it
The preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads
asking if =9Cwe can see something=9D use the preview b
utton if you can see it,
we can too. If not, work on your post before you submit it, otherwise it
will just clutter up the boards.
Here is a big one photos! Of course we all like to share them, bu
t how?
Well, that depends on the location of the image file. If the image file yo
u
want to share is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to use the
button in order to upload your image. This will publish your photo in the
large
frame with the file name, size and type up top. We have all seen em.
On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can us
e
the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me getting
ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, I would
type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically
[img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Aviation/P2223494.JPG[/img].
Notice the ***
at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to demonstrate the
file path, if I take those opt, voila!
That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need t
o
save and upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right click
on it and choose properties. You will find the address information there.
Go ahead and test that feature on my photo above.
Here is another problem starting new threads where a simple reply
would
suffice. In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the posts.
To
reply to the comments in this post, click the reply button. If you click
New Thread, you will start an entirely new thread that many will not realiz
e is
a response to the other thread. It is best to keep conversation in the
related thread. Only start a new thread if you have an original comment or
question. This also helps to improve the search function. For example, if
I were
to search for =9Celectrical system=9D or =9Ctransponder
=9D, I would likely receive
a ton of results, many of which would be from the past week although all of
those threads were in response to the same thread. It would be much more
useful to keep all conversation on a particular thread within that thread.
I=99m
not saying that if someone wants to ask a question about a transponder that
they be required to go back to the very first transponder thread and add to
it
not at all. If someone has a question, by all means, ask away bu
t anyone
who wants to respond to that topic, in reference to the original question o
r
successive comment in the thread, they should do so in the existing thread
don=99t start a new one just because you want your post at the top of
the
Pietenpol list as many may not even know what you are referring to. And, t
o my
previous point, your response standing all alone in its own thread will app
ear
as another separate thread when someone performs a search not very
helpful.
Anyhow, I=99m not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will
cause
some constructive debate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a member
of
several forums. All are useful due to the fact that many of those that
frequent to boards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy comes along he c
an
answer a lot of his own questions but searching the boards. The less clutt
ered
they are, the more useful they will be. Otherwise, people can=99t fi
nd answers
if they exist, resulting in repetitive questions popping up over and over.
I=99
m sure there are some common questions that many of you guys see often.
Could be that the answers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads o
n
the subject.
Here are a few easy commands that you may find handy
insert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]
insert photo from PC = use button
insert web address = [url]web address[/url] (example ), or type the addre
ss
in full, http://www.matronics.com
insert e-mail address = address
Another thing that clutters up a thread repetitive quotes? I can
understand a quote if you actually quote someone else=99s post, but w
hy the repetitive
quotes? Some of you have this mess in every reply
Quote 1
Quote 2
Quote 3
Quote 4
etc.
What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as
possible so no one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no usefu
l
purpose, you ought to clean it up. A signature is one thing a mess
on the other
hand is not very appealing to readers.
Just my 2 cents I=99ll stop for now. I=99ve been read
ing the forums for
several weeks now, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I cons
truct
my Piet, but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it a more read
er
friendly and useful forum.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235889#235889
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 o
r
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 23, 2009
Wow! I've touched a nerve. Sen-Sa-Tive!
No Joe, I'm not from the government, but I obviously would like to help. I don't
see what the harm is in offering some advise on how we can keep things a little
more pleasing to the eye. I mean heck, there were several recent "how do
I do" posts, I just thought I'd present a little information on some of the more
common methods of posting info, photos, etc. on a web forum. What's the big
deal?
I'm probably wasting my time explaining my reasoning as I suspect you are probably
just a troll anyway.
Troll = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
Joemotis(at)aol.com wrote:
> Not a Damn thing.
>
> "Im a new user here" Are you from the government and here to help also Mark?
>
>
> Joe Motis
> Working on rudder cables and control sticks no archivos
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235903#235903
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Straight Axle gear
Date: Mar 23, 2009
That is how I made mine.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Groah
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 1:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear
Ok, now that I have both wings done, I'm moving on to the gear.
I'm building the straight axle gear and I've made a jig that holds the
axle in the proper location. I want a little reassurance that I
understand a couple things before I start to build. My questions regard
the ash blocks.
My understanding is that the ash blocks, when the plane sits on
the ground are parallel with the ground and that if they were long they
would cross at the tailwheel location. I also understand that the space
in the "V" should be just the width of the axle.
Are my understandings correct?
Thanks for your help.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Joemotis(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
No Mark,
I am a Member of EAA 96 and am actually in the controls (rudder and
elevator) stage of helping a fellow builder get his Piet flightworthy.
Come on down to our hangar at Compton Woodley airport and have a look. Our
chapter meetings are on the 3rd Saturday of the month.Or contact me off list
and I will gladly send you some pictures of our Piet progress
In a message dated 3/23/2009 7:58:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
hangar10(at)cox.net writes:
I'm probably wasting my time explaining my reasoning as I suspect you are
probably just a troll anyway.
What EAA Chapter are you affiliated with?
Have you started construction yet?
Joe Motis
EAA735730
No Archivos
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 23, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Straight Axle gear
Thank you all for your comments on the gear.- I made up some material to
make practice legs from and I'll get started on that soon.- I have the pl
ane right side up and set at the deck angle with a jig attached to the bott
om of the fuselage that holds the axle in place.- I took a chalk line and
snapped a line for the angle of the ash blocks but thought I better double
check with the group before I spent too much time doing something wrong.
- Now that I've been assured that I'm going in the right direction I'll h
ave landing gear in no time.- Then I'll only have a few hundred more thin
gs to do and I'll be flying.-
Thanks.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
Fuselage, wings, tail, and tail gear done....
Working on main gear, fuel tank, and engine assembly.-
--- On Mon, 3/23/09, catdesigns(at)att.net wrote:
From: catdesigns(at)att.net <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear
Date: Monday, March 23, 2009, 8:39 PM
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0AThat is how I made mine.=0A-=0AChris
Sacramento, =0ACA
WestCoastPiet.com=0A-=0A=0A ----- Original Message ----- =0A From: =0A
Michael =0A Groah =0A To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A =0A Sent: M
onday, March 23, 2009 1:49 =0APM=0A Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle
=0A gear =0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A
Ok, now that I =0A have both wings done, I'm moving on to the gear.
- I'm building the =0A straight axle gear and I've made a jig that
holds the axle in the proper =0A location.-- I want a little re
assurance that I understand a =0A couple things before I start to bu
ild.- My questions regard the ash =0A blocks.
My understanding is that the ash blocks, when the plane =0A sits on
the ground are parallel with the ground and that if they were =0A lo
ng they would cross at the tailwheel location.- I also understand =0A
that the space in the "V" should be just the width of the axle.- =0A
Are my understandings correct?
Thanks for your =0A help.--
Mike Groah
Tulare =0A CA
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Subject: Re: Straight Axle gear
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Mr. Modest (Chris) didn't mention this, but he has a photographic journey
through the construction of his wood landing gear at WestCoastPiet:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/wood_landing_gear.htm
You get placement analysis, and a graphic blow-by-blow. If you have not
found it yet, it may be worth a look-see...
Ryan
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Michael Groah wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your comments on the gear. I made up some material to
> make practice legs from and I'll get started on that soon. I have the plane
> right side up and set at the deck angle with a jig attached to the bottom of
> the fuselage that holds the axle in place. I took a chalk line and snapped
> a line for the angle of the ash blocks but thought I better double check
> with the group before I spent too much time doing something wrong. Now that
> I've been assured that I'm going in the right direction I'll have landing
> gear in no time. Then I'll only have a few hundred more things to do and
> I'll be flying.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike Groah
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Date: Mar 24, 2009
This is so poorly typed, I didn't even try to read it. Why don't you try
again, this time taking a little more time and make its readable?
Thank you
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up
>
> I?Tm a new user here, and while I?Tm not trying to complain, it seems
> that some could use a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up.
> Let?Ts get right to it?
>
> The preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads
> asking if ?owe can see something?? use the preview button? if you
> can see it, we can too. If not, work on your post before you submit it,
> otherwise it will just clutter up the boards.
>
> Here is a big one? photos! Of course we all like to share them, but
> how? Well, that depends on the location of the image file. If the image
> file you want to share is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to
> use the button in order to upload your image. This will publish your
> photo in the large frame with the file name, size and type up top. We
> have all seen em.
>
> On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can
> use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me
> getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site,
> I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically
> [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Aviation/P2223494.JPG[/img].
> Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to
> demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila!
>
>
> That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need
> to save and upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right
> click on it and choose properties. You will find the address information
> there. Go ahead and test that feature on my photo above.
>
> Here is another problem? starting new threads where a simple reply would
> suffice. In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the
> posts. To reply to the comments in this post, click the reply button. If
> you click New Thread, you will start an entirely new thread that many will
> not realize is a response to the other thread. It is best to keep
> conversation in the related thread. Only start a new thread if you have
> an original comment or question. This also helps to improve the search
> function. For example, if I were to search for ?oelectrical system? or
> ?otransponder?, I would likely receive a ton of results, many of which
> would be from the past week although all of those threads were in response
> to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversation
> on a particular thread within that thread. I?Tm not saying that if
> someone wants to ask a question about a transponder that they be required
> to go back to the very first transponder !
> thread and add to it? not at all. If someone has a question, by all
> means, ask away? but anyone who wants to respond to that topic, in
> reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread,
> they should do so in the existing thread? don?Tt start a new one just
> because you want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may
> not even know what you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your
> response standing all alone in its own thread will appear as another
> separate thread when someone performs a search? not very helpful.
>
> Anyhow, I?Tm not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause
> some constructive debate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a
> member of several forums. All are useful due to the fact that many of
> those that frequent to boards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy
> comes along he can answer a lot of his own questions but searching the
> boards. The less cluttered they are, the more useful they will be.
> Otherwise, people can?Tt find answers if they exist, resulting in
> repetitive questions popping up over and over. I?Tm sure there are some
> common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that the
> answers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject.
>
> Here are a few easy commands that you may find handy?
>
> insert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img]
> insert photo from PC = use button
> insert web address = [url]web address[/url] (example ), or type the
> address in full, http://www.matronics.com
> insert e-mail address = address
>
> Another thing that clutters up a thread? repetitive quotes? I can
> understand a quote if you actually quote someone else?Ts post, but why
> the repetitive quotes? Some of you have this mess in every reply?
>
> Quote 1
>
> Quote 2
>
> Quote 3
>
> Quote 4
>
> etc.
>
> What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as
> possible so no one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no
> useful purpose, you ought to clean it up. A signature is one thing? a
> mess on the other hand is not very appealing to readers.
>
> Just my 2 cents? I?Tll stop for now. I?Tve been reading the forums
> for several weeks now, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I
> construct my Piet, but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it
> a more reader friendly and useful forum.
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235889#235889
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0(
Dan Helsper
Popar Grove, IL
NX929DH
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Date: Mar 24, 2009
"Smile Son. Never disconcert the masses."
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 24, 2009, at 5:26 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0(
>
> Dan Helsper
> Popar Grove, IL
> NX929DH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Let's remember our audience, here. This is a list about building and
flying Pietenpol aiplanes, not about being web or forum savvy.
Personally, I rather enjoy the somewhat chaotic nature of this list!
The Pietenpol list has it's own very unique culture and is a colorful
family of helpful individuals, not all of which are well versed in the
ways of the Internet, and that's okay.
Let's not worry about formatting and things like that, and enjoy
airplanes and building.
Welcome to the list.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Got the plans and dreaming, raising a family in the meantime...
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rob Hart <robhart67(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Hi Mark
The rest of us seem to find the Matronics web forum totally useful=3B gramm
ar=2C spelling and etiqette faux pas included. Good luck building your Pie
t=3B this forum will be here for you=2C warts and all=2C to assist. Iff (s
yntax intended)=2C as you suggest=2C it's totally useless to you=2C again I
say: good luck.
Rob Hart
Perth=2C Western Australia
VH-PTN (Reserved)
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up
> From: hangar10(at)cox.net
> Date: Mon=2C 23 Mar 2009 19:13:57 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> It has nothing to do with building or flying a Piet=2C rather it has to d
o with providing a more useful resource to those that are building=2C discu
ssing or flying a Piet. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? I'm sure this
etiquette could be applied to the entire Matronics Forum=2C but as a Piet
builder I am more concerned about the Pietenpol List=2C so I posted it here
.
>
> Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable ti
me savers=2C used improperly they can hinder=2C or be totally useless.
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235898#235898
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Explore the new Window
s Live .
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/windows/windowslive/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Thanks Mark and welcome to the list. Don't get too bent out of shape from s
ome of the remarks here...some people just don't have anything nice to say.
Had you posted about how to get something for free or some non-sense about
the game last night, no one would complain.
-
There are some smart Pietenpol builders here who can actually answer your q
uestions and provide use full guidance.-It's a good place to start when y
ou need some answers.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Quick response appreciated
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Morning all,
Wanted to order some aluminum this morning for my wing tank. Planning
to use Proseal and rivet. Is 5052 H32, .032 the right stuff to use?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quick response appreciated
Jack, Just make sure it is easy (or at least practical) to remove the tank
if you have to do leak repairs.- I know I have had to do quite a few leak
repairs on the jets at work.- Pro seal eventually starts leaking.- Als
o you will want to coat the rivets with proseal when you drive them.- I w
ould also recomend using solid "AD" universal head-rivets where you can b
uck them.- Cherry max rivets might be more prone to leaking than a solid
bucked rivet.- The proseal also helps glue the flanges togeather when you
apply it between mating surfaces.- Our jets call for proseal between the
skin and frames/ stringers and you can eaisly bend or break metal trying t
o pry the skin off the plane even after drilling off all the rivets.- We
joke around and say the rivets are just there to hold it untill the glue dr
ies.- Any way good luck with the tank,and send me some pics, I might buil
d my fuselage tank for my Jungster 1 that way, as I have lots more experian
ce
with riveting aluminum than welding it.-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quick response appreciated
Jack sorry I missed the most important question you had.- I am not sure a
bout the 5052.- Is that the weldable alloy?- I believe H32 is one of th
e softer alloys, which is good for forming.- Check to see if it is heat t
reatable if it is soft, (heat treating may not be neccesary).- .032 shoul
d be plenty thick enough, but you might want to put doublers or even triple
rs (doubler on both sides of tank skin) where you filler neck and fuel outl
ets are.- I am not a sheet metal expert, and you may know much more than
I do about sheet metal, but hopefully this is useful.- And the most impor
tant thing about aluminum..MAKE SURE TO SAND EVERY EDGE TO A VERY SMOOTH SH
INEY SURFACE BEFORE BENDING ANYTHING.- NO, I REPEAT, NO TOOL MARKS ESPECI
ALLY WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE BENDING IT.- A TOOL MARK LEFT IN THE ALUMIN
UM ESPECIALLY THE EDGE BEING BENT WILL CRACK, AND KEEP CRACKING, and you wi
ll be wearing 100LL perfume.
-
SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPITALS. Thats the most important part,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Dang guys I cant believe the fire Ive ignited over a few innocent suggestions.
I wasnt asking that we change the forum, rather I was just offering a few pointers
to those that had raised some questions recently, and suggested a couple
of things we could do to make it more useable. It is kind of hard to search
through these forums for useful information (you know, using the actual search
feature), but if we kept the threads intact, meaning that we don't start a new
thread just to reply to another comment, it would be a little more useful when
we are looking for solutions to issues that have already been discussed. Hey,
so far this discussion is staying in the original thread, way to go guys.
;-)
I guess I owe a few answers, and then Ill try to leave it at that.
> No Mark,
>
> I am a Member of EAA 96 and am actually in the controls (rudder and elevator)
stage of helping a fellow builder get his Piet flightworthy. Come on down to
our hangar at Compton Woodley airport and have a look. Our chapter meetings are
on the 3rd Saturday of the month. Or contact me off list and I will gladly send
you some pictures of our Piet progress
>
> What EAA Chapter are you affiliated with?
>
> Have you started construction yet?
> Joe Motis
> EAA735730
California is a bit of a drive (or flight) for me Joe, so I probably won't be able
to make it any time soon. To answer your question, yes, I am a member of EAA
10 and I am just getting started on construction. I actually have original
plans in hand and have rented a hangar for the purpose of building and storing
my project. Not sure what relevance that is to the discussion, but yes, I have
a genuine interest if that is what you wanted to know. I don't have much
to report at the time, but you are welcome to follow along or offer suggestions
if you like.
> This is so poorly typed, I didn't even try to read it. Why don't you try
> again, this time taking a little more time and make its readable?
> Thank you
> Gene
Really? Well, Im sorry it didnt read well for you Gene. Ive been told that I
have excellent writing skills, but I do occasionally get long winded and the thoughts
can run together at times.
> My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0(
>
> Dan Helsper
> Popar Grove, IL
> NX929DH
Dang! Was it really that bad? How do you guys manage to get though build manuals
and such? I mean, if the topic Ive posted doesnt interest you, fine, why
waste another second on the discussion?
> Let's remember our audience, here. This is a list about building and flying
Pietenpol aiplanes, not about being web or forum savvy. Personally, I rather enjoy
the somewhat chaotic nature of this list! The Pietenpol list has it's own
very unique culture and is a colorful family of helpful individuals, not all
of which are well versed in the ways of the Internet, and that's okay.
> Let's not worry about formatting and things like that, and enjoy airplanes and
building.
> Welcome to the list.
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> Got the plans and dreaming, raising a family in the meantime...
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
> Sent from my iPhone
You are absolutely right Wayne. As I stated above, Im not suggesting that we change
the forum I know that this is a list about building and flying Pietenpol
airplanes, and Im not trying to insist that everyone be web savvy to participate,
I simply offered a few pointers on how to do a few things and suggested that
the proper use of the reply button would make for a more useable resource.
I dont care if the topic is BBQ, motorcycles, firearms, or whatever, the better
organized the forum is, the more useful it is to the users. Here is one thing
that makes this forum a little different, and more difficult to sort through
we have one category that everything falls under Pietenpol List, rather than
having sub-categories, such as empennage, wings, powerplant, electrical, etc.
So, it is no wonder that its a little more difficult to navigate, but aside from
that, keeping the discussion with the original thread (i.e. posting a reply
when responding to another question or comment), would go a long way in keeping
things orderly. Thats all I was suggesting. You enjoy the chaotic nature,
ok, fine, but it just isnt as helpful as it could be.
> Hi Mark
>
> The rest of us seem to find the Matronics web forum totally useful; grammar
spelling and etiqette faux pas included. Good luck building your Piet; this forum
will be here for you warts and all to assist. Iff (syntax intended) as you
suggest it's totally useless to you again I say: good luck.
>
> Rob Hart
> Perth C Western Australia
> VH-PTN (Reserved)
I never said this forum was totally useless Rob, and I never criticized anyone's
grammar. It is obviously incredibly useful or I wouldnt be here, or be trying
to make suggestions on how it can be refined in the future. My comment was
> Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable time
savers, used improperly they can hinder, or be totally useless.
Not sure that I suggested that this forum was useless in that remark.
Again, Im not too clear on how my short tutorial on inserting images and how to
keep threads intact has turned into everyone thinking that Im against this entire
message board. In fact, it was just a couple of weeks ago that I posted
a comment about the warm welcome I received and the genuine nature of the forums.
Look, I wasnt trying to offend anyone, Im here for the same reasons you guys are
(I think). As for my credibility or worthiness, Im no less worthy of being
here than the rest of you. I am a registered member of the forum (cant say that
for most of my critics), and Ive purchased Matronics products for two reasons,
they looked as if they would perform the task I required of them and because
the proceeds would continue to support this resource.
Maybe I've burned a few bridges with my suggestions(not exactly sure how), but
for those of you who are regular readers, you know there was a call at times for
the very advise that I posted here, "How do I post photos", "Can you see this",
etc. For those of you that didn't find it useful, or don't understand how
to utilize these tools, fine, keep doing things your way. On the other hand,
those that did find it useful will realize an easier, more organized way of
sharing their thoughts and ideas.
Ill try to bow out of this discussion for now. Perhaps Ill try a less volatile
subject next time maybe a latex thread.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235963#235963
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
Joe, how is the project coming?
Last time Jim Markle and I visited the hangar in Compton I was rather
impressed by the resources available in tools and talent. Yet I am no fan of
bullet holes in the hanger walls. I would love to see some more pics and maybe
another visit next trip out to LA. You must have made a bunch more progress
since last we saw the fuse and wings 2 years ago.
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Mark,
If you are having a problem finding information by searching the web forum,
then try searching the Matronics mailing list archive at:
http://www.matronics.com/search/
....read the instructions; proper formatting of your search helps get the
results you are looking for. Searching the mailing list archives will net
you more results. The Pietenpol list is primarily an email mailing list ,
and the actual list archives go back a few more years than what you can fin
d
by searching on the web-based forum. And as far as your suggestions, thanks
for the input, but just remember that they don't apply for many of us as we
do not use the web-based discussion board for our access to the list. Have
a
good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> Dang guys=85 I can=92t believe the fire I=92ve ignited over a few innocen
t
> suggestions. I wasn=92t asking that we change the forum, rather I was ju
st
> offering a few pointers to those that had raised some questions recently,
> and suggested a couple of things we could do to make it more useable. It
is
> kind of hard to search through these forums for useful information (you
> know, using the actual search feature), but if we kept the threads intact
,
> meaning that we don't start a new thread just to reply to another comment
,
> it would be a little more useful when we are looking for solutions to iss
ues
> that have already been discussed. Hey, so far this discussion is staying
in
> the original thread, way to go guys. ;-)
>
> I guess I owe a few answers, and then I=92ll try to leave it at that.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lets clean it up
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Thanks Ryan. The search feature works just fine, not unlike others I've used,
but since it is an e-mail list it does have a bit of a different feel, and is
a bit less capable of narrowing a search to relevant information.
Again, I wasn't trying to impose any change, and I suppose I didn't realize that
most were corresponding via e-mail. Seems that at least some are webbing it,
and my information would likely benefit those folks a little more than the straight
e-mailers.
Thanks again for the info.
[quote="Ryan Mueller"]Mark,
If you are having a problem finding information by searching the web forum, then
try searching the Matronics mailing list archive at:
http://www.matronics.com/search/ (http://www.matronics.com/search/)
....read the instructions; proper formatting of your search helps get the results
you are looking for. Searching the mailing list archives will net you more
results. The Pietenpol list is primarily an email mailing list , and the actual
list archives go back a few more years than what you can find by searching on
the web-based forum. And as far as your suggestions, thanks for the input, but
just remember that they don't apply for many of us as we do not use the web-based
discussion board for our access to the list. Have a good day,
Ryan
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> Dang guys I cant believe the fire Ive ignited over a few innocent suggestions.
I wasnt asking that we change the forum, rather I was just offering a few pointers
to those that had raised some questions recently, and suggested a couple
of things we could do to make it more useable. It is kind of hard to search
through these forums for useful information (you know, using the actual search
feature), but if we kept the threads intact, meaning that we don't start a new
thread just to reply to another comment, it would be a little more useful when
we are looking for solutions to issues that have already been discussed. Hey,
so far this discussion is staying in the original thread, way to go guys.
;-)
>
> I guess I owe a few answers, and then Ill try to leave it at that.[b]
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235973#235973
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Quick response appreciated
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
jack.
5052 is the best for this application
..032 should be enough if only rivets are used.
if you intend to weld or solder parts of it I recommend slighty thicker material?.05
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Sent: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 8:29 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated
Morning all,
Wanted to order some aluminum this morning for my wing tank.? Planning to use Proseal
and rivet.? Is 5052 H32, .032 the right stuff to use?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY GROGAN" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Quick response appreciated
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Jack I am ready to make my wing tank also. I am going to weld mine. Give
me a call
Jerry Grogan
Des Moines, IA
Do not arcive
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated
Morning all,
Wanted to order some aluminum this morning for my wing tank. Planning
to use Proseal and rivet. Is 5052 H32, .032 the right stuff to use?
Thanks,
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 24, 2009
Subject: fuel tank material
Jack,
I know the gent who welded up my tank used 5052 and I'm almost positive he
used .032" thick but can't recall
the H rating. I'm sure the Tony Bingelis books give a good suggestion in c
ase you'd like backup on what is best.
for vibration/fatigue resistance.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank material
One thought that I had for fuel tanks is to use something like what Summit
racing sells under fuel cells. You can get various sizes and material.- I
like the plastic ones. (light weight) If you are handy with machine tools,
then you can make whatever fittings/adapters/holders you need to adapt the
se into the Pietenpol.
-
FYI
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Jean Experimental Aviation Fly-In
Date: Mar 24, 2009
It's just a few days away, March 27-29, Jean Nevada.
Forums all day on Saturday March 28th, dinner to follow.
http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html
... and it's FREE!
Pat
Editor(at)ContactMagazine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Jean Experimental Aviation Fly-In
Wow;wish I could make it that far;place looks like area 51=0A=0Ado not arch
ive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Patrick Panzera
<panzera@experimental-aviation.com>=0ATo: Corvair engines for homebuilt air
craft ; CorvAIRCRAFT(at)yahoogroups.com=0ASent: Tuesd
ay, March 24, 2009 1:47:47 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Jean Experimental
" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>=0A=0AIt's just a few days away, March
27-29, Jean Nevada.=0AForums all day on Saturday March 28th, dinner to fol
low.=0Ahttp://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html=0A... and it's FREE!=0A
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel tank material
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 24, 2009
I used 5052, .050" thick. I had a race car shop in Gibsonburg, OH weld mine.
I fabbed it all up and clamped all the flanges together and took it to them.
They did a fantastic job. They weld custom tanks for race cars all the time.
I'm sure if someone couldn't find a local shop they could send one ready to weld
to this shop. If anyone would like I can get info.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236020#236020
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder
Date: Mar 24, 2009
>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet,
>>> not because of FAA regulations, but because I want the ability to
>>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition.
>>> And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes, as
>>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and
>>> some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard,
>>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for
>>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 24, 2009
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank material
I'm curious what (if anything) you guys are doing for stiffeners on your tanks.
Are you rolling beads or attaching additional stiffeners?
One of my 'standard shtick' SNF demos has been to cut a small flat sheet from a
soda can and let 'em play with it, then run two or three beads all in one direction,
then let 'em play with it again. Sometimes I wish I were working on commission...
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Mar 24, 2009 12:48 PM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material
>
>
>Jack,
>
>I know the gent who welded up my tank used 5052 and I'm almost positive he used
.032" thick but can't recall
>the H rating. I'm sure the Tony Bingelis books give a good suggestion in case
you'd like backup on what is best.
>for vibration/fatigue resistance.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Quick response appreciated
Date: Mar 24, 2009
5052 H32 is what I used for my tank. It is a weldable, non-heat-treatable
(but work hardening, hence the H32 designation) alloy with good corrosion
resistance. As for Pro-Seal, I'm not a big fan of it. I have had a leak at
nearly every rivet in the tanks in my RV-4, and they were sealed with
proseal (admittedly, it has been flying for 22 years now, so it takes a
while for Pro-Seal to leak, but it WILL eventually leak).
On my Pietenpol I riveted the tank together and then had every seam and
every rivet TIG welded, then checked for leaks. I found 32 separate pinhole
leaks and had them re-welded. Checked it again and this time there were
only 4 leaks. Back to the welder, then leak checked and it has been leak
free ever since.
Jack Phillips
MX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated
Jack sorry I missed the most important question you had. I am not sure
about the 5052. Is that the weldable alloy? I believe H32 is one of the
softer alloys, which is good for forming. Check to see if it is heat
treatable if it is soft, (heat treating may not be neccesary). .032 should
be plenty thick enough, but you might want to put doublers or even triplers
(doubler on both sides of tank skin) where you filler neck and fuel outlets
are. I am not a sheet metal expert, and you may know much more than I do
about sheet metal, but hopefully this is useful. And the most important
thing about aluminum..MAKE SURE TO SAND EVERY EDGE TO A VERY SMOOTH SHINEY
SURFACE BEFORE BENDING ANYTHING. NO, I REPEAT, NO TOOL MARKS ESPECIALLY
WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE BENDING IT. A TOOL MARK LEFT IN THE ALUMINUM
ESPECIALLY THE EDGE BEING BENT WILL CRACK, AND KEEP CRACKING, and you will
be wearing 100LL perfume.
SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPITALS. Thats the most important part,
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder