Dick, I don't know where your flying out of but some of those complete
idiots may know more than you think they do. At many airports that
ultralights fly out of, ultralights have a different pattern altitude and at
some they even have different patterns. Sometimes we have to be careful who
we call the Idiot.
My two (2) cents worth
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From:
"Richard Carden" <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject:
Re: Transponder
>
>
>>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet,
>>>> not because of FAA regulations, but because I want the ability to
>>>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition.
>>>> And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes, as
>>>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and
>>>> some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard,
>>>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for
>>>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09:19:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Knots in wood
From:
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date:
Mar 24, 2009
I just received my capstrip for my wing ribs today, and while inspecting I found
a knot in one of the strips (pictured below). This section of wood will likely
get cut away, but I'm just wondering if this is the type of stuff I should
look out for. This is the 1/2" side of a 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip, so the knot is
approximately 1/16" in diameter. Reason for concern?
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236050#236050
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Knots in wood
Date:
Mar 24, 2009
Mark,
I am traveling and don't have my copy of AC43.13, but if memory serves me
correctly, it allows for up to 1/8" knots that are not loose.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Knots in wood
I just received my capstrip for my wing ribs today, and while inspecting I
found a knot in one of the strips (pictured below). This section of wood
will likely get cut away, but I'm just wondering if this is the type of
stuff I should look out for. This is the 1/2" side of a 1/2" x 1/4"
capstrip, so the knot is approximately 1/16" in diameter. Reason for
concern?
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236050#236050
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Knots in wood
From:
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date:
Mar 24, 2009
Thanks Gary... I have a copy here that I'll look through to see if I can find that
info.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236052#236052
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Joemotis(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 24, 2009
Subject:
Re: Knots in wood
c. Hard knots. Sound, hard knots up to 3/8 inch in maximum diameter are
acceptable providing: (1) they are
not projecting portions of I-beams, along the edges of rectangular or
beveled unrouted beams, or along the edges of
flanges of box beams (except in lowly stressed portions); (2) they do not
cause grain divergence at the edges of
the board or in the flanges of a beam more than specified in column 3; and
(3) they are in the center third of the
beam and are not closer than 20 inches to another knot or other defect
(pertains to 3/8 inch knots=94smaller knots
may be proportionately closer). Knots greater than 1/4 inch must be used
with caution.
Chapter 1 AC 43.13
Joe Motis
Piety piet piet
No archivos
In a message dated 3/24/2009 7:53:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
hangar10(at)cox.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC"
Thanks Gary... I have a copy here that I'll look through to see if I can
find that info.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236052#236052
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 o
r
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 24, 2009
Subject:
Re: fuel tank material
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
I used .040 5052, tig welded. Even though it would be a little heavier next
time I would go with .050, easier and stronger welds and stronger overall.
Rick
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
>
> Jack,
>
> I know the gent who welded up my tank used 5052 and I'm almost positive he
> used .032" thick but can't recall
> the H rating. I'm sure the Tony Bingelis books give a good suggestion in
> case you'd like backup on what is best.
> for vibration/fatigue resistance.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
I made mine out of 5052, .050. I taught myself how to TIG weld aluminum, after
failing miserably at trying to gas weld the stuff. I bought all of Kent White's
books, filler rod, torches etc. and he made it look so easy at his OSH seminars,
I thought it would be easy. NOT!??????? It took me MANY hours and two tanks
before I was able to TIG weld a good one. I only had 5 leaks to fix! I am intalling
an access panel (.025 alum) over it so I can?remove it?easily if I have
to. I stiffened the top panel of the tank by hammering-in an impresion of a
5/8" steel rod in two places. One mistake I made was placing the filler neck
too far aft, so as to make it difficult to reach when re-fueling. I should have
kept this as far foward as possible. (center-section wing tank). The fuel gauge
is a "Stearman" type with the cork float and the see-through plastic clinder
hanging down from the tank. I bought one from ACS and had to cut it down to
fit in the shallower tank. Another mistake I made wa
s to place the gauge right?in front of the front seat passenger, making it even
more difficult?to get in. But I decided to leave it there. I actually made an
aluminum housing that protects the plastic cylinder because I was afraid that
somebody might use it as a handle, or bump it with their head.?
FYI I am well-into the Stewart System covering all my control sufaces. I predict
over time that this system will over-take Polyfiber. It is far superior in
my opinion. No fumes, plus you can work at your own pace with the glue. This glue
is some kind of rubber-based stuff. You paint it on, let it dry, place the
fabric on it, tack it with an iron, then paint more glue down through the fabric
and you are done.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
NX929DH
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Knots in wood
From:
"Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
What I did was order about 10% more capstrip than I needed. Then I put aside pieces
like that one, and used them for the internal short pieces, simply cutting
out knots. I had an order from Aircraft Spruce that had so much of that kind
of wood, and poorly cut wood, that I had them replace it. Also, I just planed
the extra capstrip down and am using it for the capstrip in the empennage
now, so I really didn't end up with anything unused.
FYI
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236072#236072
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Lets clean it up
From:
"Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
Mark, your points are well-taken. One thing I like about this forum is the friendly
exchanges we have here. I've looked briefly at other lists that have greater
discipline in enforcing adherence to topics and list protocol. This list
has a unique culture that has no "enforcer" and the climate is almost always
friendly. I call it my home on the range and come here for encouraging casual
friendly atmosphere mixed with an incredible range of knowledge. Most of us
like it this way despite the flaws in sticking to topics. Other characteristics
of the disciplined forums you refer to are cocky moderators that "flame" you
and cliques that seem to exclude rather than include. So, don't take offense
to the comments you've received, I just think a lot of other guys like me are
just trying to keep a unique forum they way they like it, the way it has been
for many years.
Take care, welcome, and look forward to seeing your project advance.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236074#236074
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
Subject:
flying, cabane and jury struts
I am building/having built all my struts from laminated wood (ash and
mahogany 3/8 strips) for those that have used wood as strut material: Has anyone
beefed up the dimensions of the wood to compensate for the strength difference?
I am also considering a routed channel in each cabane strut to run wires and
plumbing rather than the typical zip tie method of keeping all the wing wire
and plumbing runs secure? Will the routed out center of the cabane strut
weaken its integrity and should it be made slightly larger to make up for the
hollowed center?
anyone have any recommendations I need to consider with the intended plan?
Please provide your best advice in this intended material and slight design
change.
Thanks
John
**************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153654%3B34689672%3Bo)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
Subject:
Re: Transponder
I use the rolling two years for my answer, its always going to be done in
two years and I am always right, no matter what!
John
**************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153654%3B34689672%3Bo)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fuel tank material- Stewart System update
From:
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
I agree completely. The Stewart Systems products are pleasant to work with. Covered
ailerons in the dining room, Wing in the living room and no problems, no
smell, no worry about it catching fire, etc.
The glue is cool in that you can use an iron to really make it smooth, with PolyBrush
you are not supposed to iron it, with Ekobond I get it the way I want it,
then iron the edges of the tapes repeatedly, sometimes adding a bit more glue,
the results are edges that I can't feel the pinked edges of. Very nice. Also
I managed to cover my wings and ailerons using maybe two clamps at most, just
to get the fabric roughly in place, rest was using the glue to tack it. Hard
to explain, but it is very pleasant to work with, and forgiving. Had one tape
(trailing edge of wing panel) that wasn't right, instead of ironing it in place,
I had tried using cloths pins and the fabric shifted and had some excess
along the back edges that wouldn't come out, I hadn't ironed the tapes with a
hot iron yet, so was able to pull them off (a week after putting them on) without
any problem.
Anyway, when linen and dope ruled, polyfiber had resistance, think the Stewart
Systems stuff will as well, but it is nice to work with and you can get excellent
results pretty easy with it.
Jim D.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236137#236137
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
From:
Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Let's clean it up
One of my favorite quotes in all of literature might sum this one up nicely
:
-
"It is not advisable, James (or Mark), to venture unsolicited advise. You s
hould spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to you
r listener."
-
Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: flying, cabane and jury struts
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
My opinion is that the wood should actually be as strong as steel. It
will have more ability to flex and absorb shock loads. When I get
around to it, I plan on doing the same thing with my radial eng Piet.
Allan Wise flew his very unique Piet for years with wood struts. It
didn't have any steel internal strapping and was very strong.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts
I am building/having built all my struts from laminated wood (ash and
mahogany 3/8 strips) for those that have used wood as strut material:
Has anyone beefed up the dimensions of the wood to compensate for the
strength difference?
I am also considering a routed channel in each cabane strut to run
wires and plumbing rather than the typical zip tie method of keeping all
the wing wire and plumbing runs secure? Will the routed out center of
the cabane strut weaken its integrity and should it be made slightly
larger to make up for the hollowed center?
anyone have any recommendations I need to consider with the intended
plan?
Please provide your best advice in this intended material and slight
design change.
Thanks
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject:
Some Sad News
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
For those of you who attend Brodhead and know Bill and Sue Knight, Sue
passed away last night after a very short and courageous bout with
cancer. The funeral is Saturday in Brodhead but I don't know the
details.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Jim Lagowski Pietenpol completion in April Sport Pilot
From:
"ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date:
Mar 25, 2009
Jim Lagowski from Michigan has a very nice pic of his completed Piet in the April
edition of EAA Sport Pilot on page 53. Nice paint job!
Lorin Miller
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
Pietenpol next up
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236177#236177
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
From:
Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject:
Re: flying, cabane and jury struts
Hi, I'am thinking of doing the same, I think the ash struts should be
sized so its strength is at least equal to the spruce at the fuse and
spar ends of the attachment.ie say 75% the thickness of spruce. Also as
the strut material will be vertical grained the struts should have a
layer or two of ply with the grain running across to prevent splitting
at the bolt attachment points. Is anyone currently flying with wood
struts and if so what dimensions have they used?
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:05 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts
I am building/having built all my struts from laminated wood (ash and
mahogany 3/8 strips) for those that have used wood as strut material:
Has anyone beefed up the dimensions of the wood to compensate for the
strength difference?
I am also considering a routed channel in each cabane strut to run
wires and plumbing rather than the typical zip tie method of keeping all
the wing wire and plumbing runs secure? Will the routed out center of
the cabane strut weaken its integrity and should it be made slightly
larger to make up for the hollowed center?
anyone have any recommendations I need to consider with the intended
plan?
Please provide your best advice in this intended material and slight
design change.
Thanks
John
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
I added carbon fiber to my laminated mahoghany/spruce cabanes (WAY
overkill!). Decided not to do the lift struts in wood because of the
weight, but there are several Piets flying out there using wood struts
with and without reinforcing laid into a routed center area. Sure looks
good.
Anyway, for those of you that are using laminated wood for cabanes or
struts, I have PLENTY of carbon fiber left over. Probably enough to
laminate struts for 100 Piets!
I've attached a picture of how I laid the carbon fiber in between the
laminations. Other materials, like Kevlar, are probably better in
tension than carbon fiber but it added no noticable thickness to the
lamination and had to help reinforce the bolt areas. You can just
barely see it in the lamination. In fact, after vacuum bagging the
whole thing you couldn't even tell the carbon was there until sanding
those areas and finding a tiny black area between the laminations.
Mostly I figure it probably strenghtened up the bolt hole area to help
avoid splitting.
So if anyone wants to do the same, contact me OFF LIST
(jim_markle(at)mindspring.com) and I'll send you enough material to do your
lift struts and cabanes.
Jim in Pryor....
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
wooden struts
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
My lift, cabanes and jury struts are wood. They're a sandwich; spruce-1/4
ply-spruce. I don't recall the exact thickness, but they're copied from
Alan Wise's who's flown hundreds and hundreds of hours with his. I believe
the only metal he used was steel strap sandwiched in the jury struts, which
is what I did. Won't do anything in compression, but will be helpful in
tension.
Just tracked down a guy up north who's piet I noticed had wooden struts in
an old back issue of the newsletter. Finally talked to him and he's done
the same thing with no problems whatsoever. I know Gary (now Keri-Ann)
Price's used wood struts, but they DID have square tubing inside, so the
wood was really cosmetic.
I like your idea of hiding the lines etc inside the cabanes. Rather than
bulking it up further, why don't you rout a channel and epoxy a thin walled
steel tube in there to act as a conduit? The tube would more than make up
for the material routed out.
I'll send you a picture of my struts offline since I still can't figure out
how to send or view photos.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
I am sure no expert on carbon fiber or any other method of fabric re-inforcment-but
does the stuff really give much added strength if you cannot pre-tension
it when you lay it up? I don't know-that's why I'm asking.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236309#236309
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Finding Flight
Group,
I
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Findng Flight
Group, After watching the Finding Flight DVD I bought at brodhead last year
I can't wait fot July!- I got a little done on my Jungster tonight, afte
r watching my 3 month old all day.- Any suggestions on how to get airplan
e building done and watch a newborn at the same time?- He is OK in the sh
op as long as it's warm, and I don't have the belt/disk sander blowing dust
in to the air.- I figure I might has well start him young, hell who know
s if his generation might be the last to be able to build there own airplan
e.- Hopefully Jacob will learn to fly in the piet, then beg me to fly my
Jungster or the Cassutt on his 16th B-day.- Any ways, I am looking forwar
d to flying to Brodhead and Oshkosh this year for the 80th ann. of the Piet
.- I hope to be able to join up with a few Ohio/ mid west piets enroute t
o Brodhead and fly up togeather.- And by the way; Can someone tell me whe
n the Winchester Indiana Hay Field fly in is?- I want to try to get the
time off work to attend.
-
Anxious and ready to fly,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Findng Flight
Group, After watching the Finding Flight DVD I bought at brodhead last year
I can't wait fot July!- I got a little done on my Jungster tonight, afte
r watching my 3 month old all day.- Any suggestions on how to get airplan
e building done and watch a newborn at the same time?- He is OK in the sh
op as long as it's warm, and I don't have the belt/disk sander blowing dust
in to the air.- I figure I might has well start him young, hell who know
s if his generation might be the last to be able to build there own airplan
e.- Hopefully Jacob will learn to fly in the piet, then beg me to fly my
Jungster or the Cassutt on his 16th B-day.- Any ways, I am looking forwar
d to flying to Brodhead and Oshkosh this year for the 80th ann. of the Piet
.- I hope to be able to join up with a few Ohio/ mid west piets enroute t
o Brodhead and fly up togeather.- And by the way; Can someone tell me whe
n the Winchester Indiana Hay Field fly in is?- I want to try to get the
time off work to attend.
-
Anxious and ready to fly,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Findng Flight
From:
"Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date:
Mar 26, 2009
Shad,
I know the feeling of trying to find time to build. I don't have an answer, but
I do have a story. When one of my boys was about 3, he was out in the shop
with me, was getting a little tired, so he climbed up on the workbench and promptly
fell asleep. Didn't get much done after that, but it was definitely one
of those Kodak moments............
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236332#236332
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
Subject:
Re: Findng Flight
Shad, I have three little ones. When I'm working on the Mustang II, I have
often thought an extra "pack and play" would work. If you're not familiar with
it, it is like a fold up crib, but with tall netted sides. That'll keep him
captive, up away from dangerous tools, plus he's up off the dirty floor, and
still give him a bit of room to move around. _Walmart.com: Graco, Pack 'n
Play Playard, Tango in the Tongo: Gear_
(http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7964354)
Boyce
BTW it's easier when they're little than when they get to be 3 yrs old. My
oldest will be 5 in July, and he's starting to get to the fun yrs again. Those
2's, and 3's were rough!
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
Subject:
Re: Findng Flight
oh, also be thoughtful of the noises our power tools make. My 18 month old
was crying the other day when I was using the drill. Funny the wife doesn't
bother him with the vacuum, but the drill sure did!
Boyce
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
The strength is derived from both resin and fibers. Think of it like steel bar
reinforced concrete.
Having the fibers in tension is not only unnecessary, but potentially weakening,
as the resin will have to maintain the stretched fibers for the life of the
part even when there are no flying loads. It is an interesting concept though
and some scientific testing would be fun to do. :)
If you get a chance read Zeke Smith's books on composite structures. The first
few chapters cover how loads transfer in what intuitive looks like a weak structure.
Hope that helps.
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/26/09, skellytown flyer wrote:
> From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 8:49 PM
> flyer"
>
> I am sure no expert on carbon fiber or any other method of
> fabric re-inforcment-but does the stuff really give much
> added strength if you cannot pre-tension it when you lay it
> up? I don't know-that's why I'm asking.Raymond
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
Ameet, if it is, as you say, like reinforced concrete, I would think putting the
fibers in tension would be like prestressed reinforced concrete, in which steel
is tensioned before pouring the concrete. The finished structure is stronger
than just concrete poured over dormant re-bar. Of course, those are different
materials than epoxy and carbon, so none of these logical parallels may hold.
Moreover, I only have personal experience with plain old concrete and re-bar,
so my opinion means little. Does your cited reference cover putting carbon
fiber rods or the like in tension (either for or against)?
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 27, 2009 8:54 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
>
>
>The strength is derived from both resin and fibers. Think of it like steel bar
reinforced concrete.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
if its not the smoking kind then its hemp, which is the same plant and or
family and fiber material that rope is made of.
John
**************Free Credit Report and Score Tracking! Get it Now for $0 at
CreditReport.com.
k)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
"TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
Tim:
Steel cables are prestressed in concrete due to the strength characteristic
s of the base concrete material. Concrete is extremely strong in
compression but relatively week in tension. Pre-stressing the steel
causes the concrete to be held in compression in such a manner that the
design bending loads will increase the compression on parts of the
concrete structure while decreasing the compression on other parts but not
to the point where any part of the concrete ceases to be in compression.
Wood has different characteristics and is pretty strong in tension as well
as compression.
This is absorbed knowledge not "book larnin" so I am quite willing to
stand corrected if I got this wrong.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>>I would think putting the fibers in tension would be like prestressed
reinforced concrete, in which steel is tensioned before pouring the
concrete.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
Tim,
Good to hear from you.
The composite books I have read don't ever mention putting the fibers in tension.
They only insist on maintaining the fibers straight for obvious reasons.
The concrete analogy is to exhibit the principle of a composite structure. concrete
acts as a matrix that holds and transfers load to the re-bar making the composite
stronger than both materials individually could be. the concrete may
be very similar to resin, but the steel re-bar is certainly not like a fiber.
The fiber alone has no strength in compression and the resin provides that compressive
ability by holding the fibers straight under such a load. Like you say,
there may not be direct parallels between the two composites.
Ameet.
--- On Fri, 3/27/09, Tim Willis wrote:
> From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 9:21 AM
>
>
> Ameet, if it is, as you say, like reinforced concrete, I
> would think putting the fibers in tension would be like
> prestressed reinforced concrete, in which steel is tensioned
> before pouring the concrete. The finished structure is
> stronger than just concrete poured over dormant re-bar. Of
> course, those are different materials than epoxy and carbon,
> so none of these logical parallels may hold. Moreover, I
> only have personal experience with plain old concrete and
> re-bar, so my opinion means little. Does your cited
> reference cover putting carbon fiber rods or the like in
> tension (either for or against)?
> Tim in central TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
now theres an idea; one of you guys out there just getting started could tr
y building a concrete Piet.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.c
om=0ASent: Friday, March 27, 2009 10:41:27 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List
: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts=0A=0A=0ATim:=0A-=0ASteel ca
bles are prestressed in concrete due to the strength characteristics of the
base concrete material.- Concrete is extremely strong in compression but
relatively week in tension.- Pre-stressing the steel causes the concrete
to be held in compression in such a manner that the design bending loads w
ill increase the compression on parts of the concrete structure while decre
asing the compression on other parts-but not to the point where any part
of the concrete ceases to be in compression.- Wood has different characte
ristics and is pretty strong in tension as well as compression.- =0AThis
is absorbed knowledge not "book larnin" so I am quite willing to stand corr
ected if I got this wrong.=0A-=0ATom Stinemetze=0AMcPherson, KS.=0A=0A>>>
I would think putting the fibers in tension would be like prestressed reinf
orced concrete, in which steel is tensioned before pouring the concrete.-
===================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
I know we have strayed slightly off topic here but to set the record straig
ht, some filters on cigarettes in the past have actually been made of fibre
glass and it has caused damage in the lungs of those who smoked them.Now b
ack to the Piet;it would be interesting to see one made out of hemp and fib
re glass composite.Probably cost a fortune but it would be extremely strong
and light weight.I just know some body is going to say why on earth would
you build a plane such as the-Piet and the way it looks out of a modern c
omposite.Usually these things are kept for the sleek and futuristic stuff s
uff as the Ratan group puts out.-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________________
_______=0AFrom: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@m
atronics.com=0ASent: Friday, March 27, 2009 12:22:09 PM=0ASubject: RE: Piet
enpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts=0A=0A=0AActually, I
don't anyone should be smoking any kind of fibreglass...=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of H RULE=0ASen
t: Friday, March 27, 2009 10:23 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASub
ject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts=0A=0A
=0Aone of the strongest composites is fibre glass and marijuana;they grow i
t for this purpose;it's not the same stuff ya smoke though=0A=0Ado not arch
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
To set the record straight even further, hemp fibers used in rope, cloth, paper
etc come from the same plant as Marijuana: Cannabis sativa . The difference comes
from the cultivation. Good fiber comes from plants that are very low in THC
concentrations and vice-versa.
Near where I live, a company produces bamboo bicycles that are held together with
hemp fiber and epoxy. High quality bamboo acts an awful lot like fiberglass
and people swear by the bamboo bikes. The hemp, though, has to be imported from
Canada because it's illegal to grow, even in California.
Now, back to the subject at hand. The problem of composite materials is in the
different ways the different materials react to stress. Because carbon fiber is
MUCH stiffer than wood, putting the wood/carbon sandwich in tension loads the
carbon fiber much quicker that it does the wood. What happens is that the carbon
could be loaded to near failure before the wood begins to carry any load.
In a Piet's cabane strut, not much load is ever carried during normal usage. The
carbon fiber will carry virtually all the relatively light loads. The same would
be true of a lift strut made from the same sandwich though the loading is
much higher. If you make a wood/carbon sandwich structural member, design in
enough carbon to carry all of the expected tension loads. The wood won't be doing
much.
Wood, by the way, is already a composite in the sense of being made from fibers
in a matrix. The cellulose fibers are held together by a lignin glue. In fiberglass
or carbon fiber composites the glass or the carbon is the fiber, held together
in an epoxy or polyester or whatever matrix (even Elmer's, but not particularly
well).
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "H RULE" <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 10:08:03 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
I know we have strayed slightly off topic here but to set the record straight,
some filters on cigarettes in the past have actually been made of fibre glass
and it has caused damage in the lungs of those who smoked them.Now back to the
Piet;it would be interesting to see one made out of hemp and fibre glass composite.Probably
cost a fortune but it would be extremely strong and light weight.I
just know some body is going to say why on earth would you build a plane such
as the Piet and the way it looks out of a modern composite.Usually these things
are kept for the sleek and futuristic stuff suff as the Ratan group puts
out.
[snip for brevity]
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
I wana Bamboo bike!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:57 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury
struts
To set the record straight even further, hemp fibers used in rope,
cloth, paper etc come from the same plant as Marijuana: Cannabis sativa.
The difference comes from the cultivation. Good fiber comes from
plants that are very low in THC concentrations and vice-versa.
Near where I live, a company produces bamboo bicycles that are held
together with hemp fiber and epoxy. High quality bamboo acts an awful
lot like fiberglass and people swear by the bamboo bikes. The hemp,
though, has to be imported from Canada because it's illegal to grow,
even in California.
Now, back to the subject at hand. The problem of composite materials
is in the different ways the different materials react to stress.
Because carbon fiber is MUCH stiffer than wood, putting the wood/carbon
sandwich in tension loads the carbon fiber much quicker that it does the
wood. What happens is that the carbon could be loaded to near failure
before the wood begins to carry any load.
In a Piet's cabane strut, not much load is ever carried during normal
usage. The carbon fiber will carry virtually all the relatively light
loads. The same would be true of a lift strut made from the same
sandwich though the loading is much higher. If you make a wood/carbon
sandwich structural member, design in enough carbon to carry all of the
expected tension loads. The wood won't be doing much.
Wood, by the way, is already a composite in the sense of being made
from fibers in a matrix. The cellulose fibers are held together by a
lignin glue. In fiberglass or carbon fiber composites the glass or the
carbon is the fiber, held together in an epoxy or polyester or whatever
matrix (even Elmer's, but not particularly well).
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "H RULE" <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 10:08:03 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury
struts
I know we have strayed slightly off topic here but to set the record
straight, some filters on cigarettes in the past have actually been made
of fibre glass and it has caused damage in the lungs of those who smoked
them.Now back to the Piet;it would be interesting to see one made out of
hemp and fibre glass composite.Probably cost a fortune but it would be
extremely strong and light weight.I just know some body is going to say
why on earth would you build a plane such as the Piet and the way it
looks out of a modern composite.Usually these things are kept for the
sleek and futuristic stuff suff as the Ratan group puts out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
[snip for brevity]
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
IMHO that is slightly inaccurate. In a composite structure, due to the differing
stiffness the load will be carried proportional to the moduli. Because carbon
has a very high modulus it will carry a larger portion of the load. But the
wood does carry some.
My statement is a bit oversimplified. It ignores the amount of carbon and wood
used in the said composite. If I use a very small amount of carbon in the strut
it will get overloaded and my wooden strut will have to carry all the load.
Which if I happily reduced in size because I added "some" carbon, will also fail.
:)
Isn't design fun?!
Regards.
Ameet
--- On Fri, 3/27/09, bike.mike(at)comcast.net wrote:
> From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net <bike.mike(at)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: reinforcing for: cabane and jury struts
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 1:56 PM
...
> The problem of composite
> materials is in the different ways the different materials
> react to stress. Because carbon fiber is MUCH stiffer than
> wood, putting the wood/carbon sandwich in tension loads the
> carbon fiber much quicker that it does the wood. What
> happens is that the carbon could be loaded to near failure
> before the wood begins to carry any load.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
Subject:
what is Harvy smoking?
Harvey,
I'm glad you're on the list, you make me smile from time to time with your
posts. Do we need to send a few buckets of warm water up there to Canada
to thaw you out or will you be okay with warming of days ?
Mike Cuy in Ohio
PS: Only smoking Texaco Canopus Oil No. 13 thru my A-65 exhaust stacks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: what is Harvy smoking?
Thank God it's starting to warm up in cold Canada;can't wait to pull the GN
-1 Aircamper out and go for a toot.Couple of buckets of beer wouldn't be a
bad thought though!I don't smoke anymore but when I did I enjoyed it especi
ally the wacky tabaky!Glad you like the posts.This is a great list,best of
them all!Your a great bunch of people,the best!=0A=0Ayou can archive that!
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (G
RC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" =0ATo: "piete
npol-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, Mar
ch 27, 2009 3:58:20 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: what is Harvy smoking?=0A
=0A=0A-=0AHarvey, =0A-=0AI'm glad you're on the list, you make me smile
from time to time with your posts.--- Do we need to send a few bucke
ts of warm water up there to Canada=0Ato thaw you out or will you be okay w
ith warming of days ?----- =0A-=0AMike Cuy in Ohio=0A-=0APS:
Only smoking Texaco Canopus Oil No. 13 thru my A-65 exhaust stacks.--
=====================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Findng Flight
Boyce, Yes the pack and play is set up in the shop, untill my wife notices
it's missing and covered in sawdust.- I just try to make sure I am at the
gluing stepswhen he is out there, that way the dust and noise is at a mini
mum.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
annual inspections
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
Mike Cuy and all,
Question,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I originally licenced my Piet in November.
I always did my inspection in Nov. and logged the same.
Last Nov. time got away from me, and didn't do it, or fly it since then.
If I inspect it tomorrow,,,do I date it now or last Nov?
Does the inspection have to match the licencing?
Or will this be my "new" year to start?
Thanks all.
PS Can't wait to fly this weekend and check out the old valley.
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject:
Re: annual inspections
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
Walt,
You will now be on a March to March cycle. Annual condition
inspections run on a 12 calendar month basis.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 27, 2009, at 5:22 PM, walt wrote:
> Mike Cuy and all,
> Question,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I originally licenced my Piet in November.
> I always did my inspection in Nov. and logged the same.
> Last Nov. time got away from me, and didn't do it, or fly it since
> then.
>
> If I inspect it tomorrow,,,do I date it now or last Nov?
> Does the inspection have to match the licencing?
> Or will this be my "new" year to start?
> Thanks all.
> PS Can't wait to fly this weekend and check out the old valley.
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Findng Flight
From:
"ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
My 8 year old loves to come down to the shop and help me or "build stuff, dad".
I took a bunch of small 1x1 and 1x2s of various lengths, drilled holes through
them at different locations, and gave him a bunch of bolts/nuts. He loves to
bolt them together and make different shapes. I broke down for Christmas and
bought him his own wrench set and tool box. He now keeps all his real and plastic
tools in it. I also bought him his own flashlight and tape measure (got tired
of mine going missing). He really has a blast. I also put up an electronic
dart board. Him and his older brother will play darts down there while I"m working
also.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
Pietenpol next up
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236461#236461
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: Straight Axle gear
Date:
Mar 27, 2009
I've been away for a week so I'm labouriously going through
tons of email. Here's the link to my web pages for landing
gear legs. It starts with a comprehensive, 2X4 jig and goes
from there.
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol3.html
I have a lot more stuff to put up but I'm having trouble
uploading it and also getting ahold of the tech support.
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear
Thank you all for your comments on the gear. I made up some
material to make practice legs from and I'll get started on that soon.
e flying.
Thanks.
Mike Groah
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
wood vs metal strut weights
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
In the occassional discussion re wooden struts, I often read the comment
that wood struts weigh more. While this certainly may be true, I wonder if
this is based upon actual weights or educated guessing?
So...
I am going to weigh my wood struts and would apprciate it if anybody out
there could tell me what their steel struts weigh. Was hoping somebody has
those numbers somewhere, or maybe has their struts handy along with a
convnient scale.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
wood vs metal strut weights
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
From:
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Douwe,
I recall speaking with Paul Poulin, who flew his Air Camper, Canadian
Goose C-GZHT to Brodhead two summers ago. His lift struts, cabane struts
and jury struts were all made of solid laminated white ash. He said that
he weighed his wood lift struts, and then weighed some steel struts (off
a Piper, I think) and found his wood struts to be slightly lighter.
Of course, the weight of wood struts would depend on the species of
wood, and the profile of the strut, and the weight of the steel struts
would depend on the profile of the streamline material, as well as the
wall thickness.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Sat 28/03/2009 10:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood vs metal strut weights
In the occassional discussion re wooden struts, I often read the comment
that wood struts weigh more. While this certainly may be true, I wonder
if
this is based upon actual weights or educated guessing?
So...
I am going to weigh my wood struts and would apprciate it if anybody out
there could tell me what their steel struts weigh. Was hoping somebody
has
those numbers somewhere, or maybe has their struts handy along with a
convnient scale.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
Re: wood vs metal strut weights
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Wood versus steel...I expect the wood to be lighter.
For reference, my aluminum 6061T6 lift struts (about 1" X 2.44") weigh a bit
over 4 pounds each.
After reading all these great messages about sandwiching carbon fiber (or
equiv.) in a lamination....I'm now wishing I had made mine from wood.....
But I've rebuilt just about every part of this project at least once so the
struts...they stay the way they are right now!
Jim in rainy wet Pryor OK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood vs metal strut weights
>
>
> In the occassional discussion re wooden struts, I often read the comment
> that wood struts weigh more. While this certainly may be true, I wonder
> if
> this is based upon actual weights or educated guessing?
>
> So...
>
> I am going to weigh my wood struts and would apprciate it if anybody out
> there could tell me what their steel struts weigh. Was hoping somebody
> has
> those numbers somewhere, or maybe has their struts handy along with a
> convnient scale.
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Straight axle gear
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Clif wrote-
>I'm having trouble
> uploading it and also getting ahold of the tech support.
In the Piet world=2C "tech support" consists of those wide elastic suspende
rs. Mine are black=2C but yours can be whatever color you like.
Just like in my Piet world the "cockpit data recorder" is a kneeboard and p
encil. It's no use trying to record voice data in a Piet because it all ge
ts blown out of the cockpit by the mighty A65.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject:
black ash instead of white ash
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
I've found a source of black ash for $1.00/BF and wondered if it's a good s
ubstitute for white ash. What I read is that it's slightly softer and ligh
ter. I plan on making ash flying struts and landing gear.
Any thoughts or experience with black ash?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick Navratil" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: black ash instead of white ash
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Tom I have been flying with LG struts of laminated Douglas Fir for 5
years without problems. I know others that have used Sitka to make gear
legs. You are probably fine.
Come up to Osceola some day for a ride.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: black ash instead of white ash
I've found a source of black ash for $1.00/BF and wondered if it's a
good substitute for white ash. What I read is that it's slightly softer
and lighter. I plan on making ash flying struts and landing gear.
Any thoughts or experience with black ash?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject:
Riblett Airfoil
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Gents:
Does anyone have Roman Bukolt's email address?
I purchased the Riblett airfoil drawing from Roman a few years ago. I'm
just now setting up a jig to start building my ribs. I'm a little
unsure on a couple of points on building these ribs, and I need a little
help.
Thanks Fellows,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Roman is at: conceptmodels(at)tds.net
Would you want to elaborate on the points you are unsure of?
Ryan
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:04 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
> Gents:
>
> Does anyone have Roman Bukolt's email address?
>
> I purchased the Riblett airfoil drawing from Roman a few years ago. I'm
> just now setting up a jig to start building my ribs. I'm a little unsure on
> a couple of points on building these ribs, and I need a little help.
>
> Thanks Fellows,
>
> Al Lyscars
> Manchester, NH
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Hi Ryan,
I've got a set of Grega GN-1 plans which I'm going to build from, and I
bought Roman's template a few years ago.
- My GA30-612 Riblett drawing doesn't list much detail. For example,
there are no notes concerning the number of ribs to build. Should I
rely on my Grega drawings for this info?
- The Grega plans specify compression members in at least two of the
ribs; are there any compression members in the Riblett?
- I am very unsure as to how to construct the trailing edge spar
sections as far as the aileron sections go. Am I missing a "notes page"
which may have been part of Roman's submittal? I've moved between then
and now..anything's possible!
Ryan, thanks for offering to help.
Al Lyscars
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil
Roman is at: conceptmodels(at)tds.net
Would you want to elaborate on the points you are unsure of?
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Al,
I don't have Roman's Riblett print; we purchased ours from Bill Rewey, but I
believe they have essentially the same information (if not, someone with
Roman's print can chime in, hopefully). With that being said, here are
thoughts regarding a few of your questions:
Switching to the Riblett changes the shape of the rib you are building, but
it should not affect the amount of ribs you build. Defer to your Grega plans
for the number; if your plans show 29 (for example), then build 29.
If the Grega plan shows two ribs with compression members, then I would say
build two Riblett ribs with compression members and install in the
appropriate location. As far as compression members go, I believe our print
from Bill shows the compression members as dashed line verticals in the
print. If your print has those dashed line vertical members then that would
be where you would locate those pieces.
As far the the aileron section spars, I can't speak to that regarding the
Grega, as I have not seen GN-1 plans. Is it that you are having trouble
reconciling that part of Grega design with the Riblett rib, or that you are
having trouble with the Grega design in and of itself?
Time for dinner!
Ryan
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 2:49 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
> Hi Ryan,
>
> I've got a set of Grega GN-1 plans which I'm going to build from, and I
> bought Roman's template a few years ago.
>
> - My GA30-612 Riblett drawing doesn't list much detail. For example,
> there are no notes concerning the number of ribs to build. Should I rely on
> my Grega drawings for this info?
>
> - The Grega plans specify compression members in at least two of the
> ribs; are there any compression members in the Riblett?
>
> - I am very unsure as to how to construct the trailing edge spar sections
> as far as the aileron sections go. Am I missing a "notes page" which may
> have been part of Roman's submittal? I've moved between then and
> now..anything's possible!
>
> Ryan, thanks for offering to help.
>
> Al Lyscars
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 28, 2009 3:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil
>
> Roman is at: conceptmodels(at)tds.net
>
> Would you want to elaborate on the points you are unsure of?
>
> Ryan
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: black ash instead of white ash
Black ash is what I get when I burn my wet fire wood.- Usually small piec
es of spruce scrap turn to white ash, as long as there is no dried glue on
them.-
-
Ha Ha Ha, Just kidding now don't stone me,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 28, 2009
Subject:
Re: Free Waldo Peppers Again!
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Tim
I would gladly send you at least postage costs for a DVD.
Thanks
Rick Holland
3732 Castle Butte Dr
Castle Rock, CO 80109
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Tim Verthein
wrote:
> minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
>
>
> Hey Gang-
>
> Last year I sent out several dozen free home made Waldo Pepper DVD's to
> anyone who wanted one. Many sent me something in return - not necessary but
> always welcome.
>
> Once again, if anyone wants one, contact me off list and I'll get one to
> you. The "used and new" on Amazon starting at $15 are for VHS tapes, their
> DVD's are starting at $49 (at least today, it varies daily). Note they also
> have soundtrack recordings, paperback books and related items.
>
> My copies are from my original (old) VHS tape, not the finest remastered
> digital quality, but certainly watchable, and free.
>
> I just like to share a good movie.
>
> Tim in Bovey
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
wood strut weights
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
I weighed my struts, with the steel end strap fittings and the bracing
cables with associated hardware, including bolts. They weigh in a bit under
6 lbs each ( 5 lbs 12 oz).
Someone gave an aprox weight for aluminum struts at just over 4 lbs.
Havn't heard any weights yet for steel struts, but I'm guessing it won't be
less than the wood, though it might not be much more.
The strap fittings on each end are fairly substantial and undoubtedly add a
lot of weight, whereas they can be integral and much simpler when using a
steel strut.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
fueling center section tank
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting up
there without using a ladder?
Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there
should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc
???
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fueling center section tank
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
From:
helspersew(at)aol.com
Douwe,
I have been faced with this dilemma and will probably try to add some kind of permanent
"refuling step"? made from aluminum streamline tubing. It will have to
stick-out of the fuze at the approximate height of the top longeron. Otherwise
it is near impossible to refuel without a ladder, especially because my filler
neck is located at the thickest part of the tank, close to the center. It
is hard to reach back there, and especially hard to see what you are doing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
NX929DH
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 3:06 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank
For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting up
there without using a ladder?
Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there
should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc
???
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: fueling center section tank
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
The fuel tank filler neck on NX18235's center section tank is offset to the
left for ease of fueling.
Standing on the tire puts me at a height that allows me to easily place the
fuel nozzle into the neck but not high enough to be able to see into the
tank.
A step built into the fuselage would have been a great help.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 3:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank
>
>
> For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting
> up
> there without using a ladder?
>
> Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there
> should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc
>
> ???
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
From:
Ron Franck <franck(at)geneseo.net>
Subject:
Re: Free Waldo Peppers Again!
After reading Tim Verthein's offer for a copy of Waldo Pepper
I thought I'd see if my original DVD copy would transfer as well.
It did copy and I'll make the same offer that Tim did.
The copy will be on a DVD-R formated disc. This should play
on 90% of the DVD players currently on the market. I have found
that low quality players may not successfully play some
DVD-R discs. If you have a higher end DVD player, you should
be fine.
These copies are crisp and clear. You won't be able to tell the
difference from an original DVD. Each will feature full screen,
Dolby Digital sound, captioned, and with Spanish and French
subtitles, Region 1, scene index and features.
I'm asking $2.00 a copy to cover the cost of the disc, sleeve
and postage. I was at one time able to mail discs through the
mail for the cost of a stamp, but the USPS now adds a $.20
surcharge for DVD's because they have to hand cancel
each envelope.
Contact me off list at franck(at)geneseo.net if you are interested.
Put "Waldo" in the subject line and include your name and
mailing address. I'll mail out the movie, you watch it and
if you're satisfied, then you mail me the funds. Such a deal, huh?
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Hand propping a 65
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it
was discussed about an add-on starter built from a battery drill.
Anyone hear of any/all tips.
PS I just want to touch a button. :^)
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Hand propping a 65
Walt, Look in the the Feb, or March Sport Aviation Magizine, there is a who
le artical on it.
-
Shad
--- On Sun, 3/29/09, walt wrote:
From: walt <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65
Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 10:49 AM
In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it was
discussed about an add-on starter-built from a battery drill.
Anyone hear of any/all tips.
-
PS I just want to touch a button.-- :^)
-
-
walt evans
NX140DL
-
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: fueling center section tank
Douwe, Our filler neck is back a little to far to be at an easy reach.- I
have soaked my-canvas helmet-and my jacket 2 dozzen times from over ru
nning the tank.- It runs right into the rear cockpit.- On a positive no
te we only burn 100LL so it evaporates and doesn't leave that terrible auto
gas smell in the clothes or seat cussion.- Put it as far forward as prac
tcal, and watch out filling it on a hot summer day, when you spend 5 min tr
ying to find the line boy to pay for your gas, you will come back to an ove
r flowing vented fuel cap, and a wet seat.
-
Shad
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
From:
Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Hand propping a 65
April 2009 Sport Aviation has a small article on two options you could buy. Very
pricey!
Here are the details:
Harold Hamp:
7350 Osborn Rd
Elwell, MI 48832
989-463-1762
The other is an Alan Eke System which was detailed in Aug 2006 issue.
Regards,
Ameet
--- On Sun, 3/29/09, walt wrote:
> From: walt <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65
> To: Fishnet(at)topica.com, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 9:49 AM
> In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand
> propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter
> built from a battery drill.
> Anyone hear of any/all tips.
>
> PS I just want to touch a button. :^)
>
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Al,My email address is:
conceptmodels(at)tds.net
Also Bill Rewey is more knowledgable than I, about the Riblett airfoil.
He doesn't do email but can be reached at
608-833.5839
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:04 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
> Gents:
>
> Does anyone have Roman Bukolt's email address?
>
> I purchased the Riblett airfoil drawing from Roman a few years ago. I'm
> just now setting up a jig to start building my ribs. I'm a little unsure on
> a couple of points on building these ribs, and I need a little help.
>
> Thanks Fellows,
>
> Al Lyscars
> Manchester, NH
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Subject:
Landing gear tubing size
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go,
unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in
preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing
thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from
ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the
consensus on the tubing thickness used?
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Subject:
Re: fueling center section tank
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
I welded a couple of steps onto my left gear, copied the idea from a Piet at
Broadhead. The rear one to help people get in the front cockpit and the
front one (which is horizontal with the fuse down on the tailwheel) to get
to the top of the CC. Of course this won't work too well with wooden gear.
Rick
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>
> For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting
> up
> there without using a ladder?
>
> Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there
> should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc
>
> ???
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject:
Re: fueling center section tank
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Sail boaters use folding mast steps that would work well.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank
I welded a couple of steps onto my left gear, copied the idea from a
Piet at Broadhead. The rear one to help people get in the front cockpit
and the front one (which is horizontal with the fuse down on the
tailwheel) to get to the top of the CC. Of course this won't work too
well with wooden gear.
Rick
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Douwe Blumberg
wrote:
For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for
getting up
there without using a ladder?
Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if
there
should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc
???
Thanks
Douwe
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/28/09 07:16:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Re: Hand propping a 65
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
The latest Sport Aviation or perhaps Sport Pilot has an article about
the guy who did this and will do it for others. I talked to him and all
he wants is~$1800 to do one for your plane--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: walt
To: Fishnet(at)topica.com ; pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65
In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65.
it was discussed about an add-on starter built from a battery drill.
Anyone hear of any/all tips.
PS I just want to touch a button. :^)
walt evans
NX140DL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/28/09 07:16:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Landing gear tubing size
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Did you look at the Pietenpol plans?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size
The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go,
unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in
preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing
thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130
from ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the
consensus on the tubing thickness used?
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Subject:
Re: Landing gear tubing size
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Yes, hence I said the plans called for 14 gauge tubing. 1 3/8" diameter 14
gauge 1020 tubing, to be specific. I was looking at the 4130 sizes in the
Wicks, ACS, and Airparts catalogs because they do not have 1020 in the OD
needed (two don't even carry 1020).
Is this a "substitute with a particular size of 4130 tubing" situation, or a
"call Dillsburg Aero because no one else on the face of the earth carries 1
3/8" 14 gauge (.078) 1020 tubing anymore"?
Ryan
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:14 PM, walt wrote:
> Did you look at the Pietenpol plans?
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size
>
> The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go,
> unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in
> preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing
> thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from
> ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the
> consensus on the tubing thickness used?
>
> Ryan
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject:
elongating holes
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Is it acceptable to elongate or oversize holes in order for some things to
line up? I'm putting the hinges on the elevators and one of them isn't mat
ching up quite right. I could either elongate /oversize the holes a bit or
plug them and re-drill. This also came up when I attached the horiz. stab
with the little metal brackets - didn't quite line up perfectly. Guess I'
m not drilling straight or something.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
41CC flight today
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
I took 41CC up this afternoon for the first time in two months. It's been
wayyyy too long but I had some squawks to take care of after the annual con
dition inspection and then we had some medical issues in the family that ha
ve been taking lots of my time. But today was the day and all the "essenti
al to safety of flight" squawks were taken care of and it was time to go up
. I'll wait and change the pop rivets on the fuel valve handle another tim
e=2C and I'll live with the tach cable the way it is for awhile too.
We had a stiff and gusty south breeze=2C pretty much straight down the runw
ay=2C and the airplane jumped right off the ground. Everything worked pret
ty as you please=2C I did three very nice landings on the grass=2C and am v
ery happy with the smoothness and harmony of the controls. I rerigged all
the tail surfaces since I had decided to pull the turnbuckles off and insta
ll some missing washers=2C proper cotter pins=2C and change out some mismat
ched hardware here and there. I also found a discarded shoe on the side of
the road on the way to the airport and I pinked out two leather rub patche
s and glued them to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer where the
elevator cables touch. Voila=3B no more wear spots.
The Piet is such an enjoyable airplane to fly and to work on.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
<catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: elongating holes
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
I would plug and re-drill
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: elongating holes
Is it acceptable to elongate or oversize holes in order for some
things to line up? I'm putting the hinges on the elevators and one of
them isn't matching up quite right. I could either elongate /oversize
the holes a bit or plug them and re-drill. This also came up when I
attached the horiz. stab with the little metal brackets - didn't quite
line up perfectly. Guess I'm not drilling straight or something.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Landing gear tubing size
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Ryan,
14 ga. tubing is .083 and is available from Dillsburg.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size
Yes, hence I said the plans called for 14 gauge tubing. 1 3/8"
diameter 14 gauge 1020 tubing, to be specific. I was looking at the 4130
sizes in the Wicks, ACS, and Airparts catalogs because they do not have
1020 in the OD needed (two don't even carry 1020).
Is this a "substitute with a particular size of 4130 tubing"
situation, or a "call Dillsburg Aero because no one else on the face of
the earth carries 1 3/8" 14 gauge (.078) 1020 tubing anymore"?
Ryan
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:14 PM, walt wrote:
Did you look at the Pietenpol plans?
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size
The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go,
unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in
preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing
thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130
from ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the
consensus on the tubing thickness used?
Ryan
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Hand propping a 65
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Propping the engine is something I have mixed feelings about. On one hand
=2C I like the utter simplicity of having no electrics=2C no starter=2C no
gadgets and no messing about. On the other hand=2C I worry about the engin
e stopping sometime with only moments to spare for a retry in flight=2C and
not being able to give it another try at starting by just punching a butto
n or pulling a handle.
It's not really something I should worry about... they always say the main
thing to do when the engine quits is to fly the airplane and not worry with
gadgets that might distract. I have found my airplane to be extremely sim
ple and fuss-free=2C easy and quick to start now that I know the drill=2C a
nd not at all difficult to prop. I also think it adds an aura of "old time
-ness" to the whole flight when it begins with a hand-prop. It's how I lea
rned to fly and it always works.
On the other hand=2C there is a lot to be said for being in the cockpit=2C
strapped in=2C brakes set=2C and in control of everything when the engine i
s lit. There is no doubt that electric (or other automatic) starters have
something to be said for them. For now=2C though=2C I'm starter-free and h
appy with that. I sure wouldn't pay $1800 for a starter unless I lost the
physical ability to prop my airplane=2C and then I might be out of luck fly
ing entirely.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
From:
Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: fueling center section tank
This is a problem I have not had to solve, thank goodness.
I have a picture somewhere of a fellow using a short plywood scaffold board to
refuel his Piet's center wing tank. As you likely know, any proper "scaffold
board" has boards on the underside, at each end of the main plank, at the overhangs,
so the board cannot slide off each end. In this case the plank is sited
across the upper longerons at the rear of the pilot's seat. The pilot can then
stand very high and see everything while filling the upper tank.
That would work very well at the home hangar, esp. on Piets without upholstery
there. However, where would you carry the board for trips? You don't want it
underfoot in the cockpits, and you don't want it behind the pilot for CG reasons.
And of course, wherever it might go, it has to be firmly affixed in its
storage agea, and well away from cables, bellcranks, etc., for in-flight safety.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: gcardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Mar 29, 2009 5:58 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank
>
>
>The fuel tank filler neck on NX18235's center section tank is offset to the
>left for ease of fueling.
>Standing on the tire puts me at a height that allows me to easily place the
>fuel nozzle into the neck but not high enough to be able to see into the
>tank. A step built into the fuselage would have been a great help.
>Greg Cardinal
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 29, 2009
Subject:
Re: Landing gear tubing size
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Well, that's what I get for not doing things myself. :P There were three
people gathered around the Machinery Handbook, whilst I checked the gauge
listed on the plans. I should have verified that they were looking at the
correct chart (three relatively experienced people, one who is a
metalworker). Hmm, I'll have to check myself :P
Thanks Greg.
Ryan
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:14 PM, gcardinal wrote:
> *Ryan,*
> **
> *14 ga. tubing is .083 and is available from Dillsburg.*
> **
> *Greg Cardinal*
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:28 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size
>
> Yes, hence I said the plans called for 14 gauge tubing. 1 3/8" diameter 14
> gauge 1020 tubing, to be specific. I was looking at the 4130 sizes in the
> Wicks, ACS, and Airparts catalogs because they do not have 1020 in the OD
> needed (two don't even carry 1020).
>
> Is this a "substitute with a particular size of 4130 tubing" situation, or
> a "call Dillsburg Aero because no one else on the face of the earth carries
> 1 3/8" 14 gauge (.078) 1020 tubing anymore"?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:14 PM, walt wrote:
>
>> Did you look at the Pietenpol plans?
>> walt evans
>> NX140DL
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Ryan Mueller
>> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM
>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size
>>
>> The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go,
>> unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in
>> preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing
>> thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from
>> ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the
>> consensus on the tubing thickness used?
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: elongating holes
From:
"carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
I stuffed up a couple of holes and filled them with T88 and re drilled.
I think it will be ok the rest of the Piet is held together with it.
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236822#236822
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: elongating holes
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
From:
helspersew(at)aol.com
Tom,
I also had trouble with those plans-built hinges to line up. I had to do a lot
of fudging like you propose. Somebody has to have figured out a way to line-up
all those things. Maybe you could put a rod all the way through all three hinges
before marking for the holes in the wood? That sounds easy but in reality?
A slight bit of elongation will not hurt in my opinion. This is what I did.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
NX929DH
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Jim Lagowski Pietenpol completion in April Sport Pilot
Mixing sawdust or fiberglass flox with t-88 would probably work well, I have to
fill one on my project as well.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
From:
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
Al, I am using the 3 piece wing plan for the Pietenpol with the Riblett 612
ribs. What you must do is build the ribs per the Riblett full scale drawin
g and modify/include what you need to do match the print of the wing. (rega
rdless of the type of plane/wing)- Our Pietenpol wings use compression st
ruts at the drag cable attach points on the spars. These are separate from
the ribs. Our ribs do not include any kind of built in compression struts.
(if I am reading you question correctly.) There are extra braces that are b
uilt into a few ribs for the ends of the wings and those are also shown on
the Riblett plan.- My 3 piece Pietenpol wing will use a total of 31 ribs.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
Subject:
some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California
go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708
Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE WALTER
Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER Status Valid T
ype Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Num
ber Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262
MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO
To search FAA registrations go here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu
iry/
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
That IS a beautiful plane!
Thanks Mike
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708
Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE
WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER
Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine
Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change
Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO
To search FAA registrations go here:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Photo resizing tool
From:
"jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
I buried this in a reply to a previous thread and you might have missed it. Here
it is again. It's a very handy picture resizing tool as an add-on from Microsoft
This link will tell you all about it. It allows you to select one or more
photos and make them smaller and better suited as attachments to lists such
as this.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/learnmore/tips/eschelman2.mspx
It says it's for XP but, I don't know why it wouldn't work with Vista.
--------
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236906#236906
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Wingtip attachment
From:
"jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
Would you be so kind as to tell me the best way to attach the wingtips to the spars?
I can see the blocks at the leading and trailing edges but, the plans are
a little vague about the spars. Looks like some kind of an angle.
--------
Thanks, Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236908#236908
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Wingtip attachment
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
From:
"Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Here you go Jim, more pictures on my site.
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
Californi
From:
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
Very cool pics. I hope mine turns out that nice.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236918#236918
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Wingtip attachment
From:
"jimbir" <jimbir(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
Thanks for the info. A couple of questions. 1. bolt size thru the spars. 2. is
the screw thru the tip the same size as the screws thru the leading edge and
are they counter-bored the same way?
--------
Thanks, Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236920#236920
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Wingtip attachment
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
From:
"Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Jim,
AN3 through the spars, the tip was a bit smaller (it was an MS?)and
bored in to hide the head.
Jack Textor
Vice President
3737 Woodland Avenue
Suite #300
West Des Moines, IA 50266
515-225-7000
www.thepalmergroup.com
This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and
may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you
are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to
the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please
delete it. Thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimbir
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wingtip attachment
Thanks for the info. A couple of questions. 1. bolt size thru the spars.
2. is the screw thru the tip the same size as the screws thru the
leading edge and are they counter-bored the same way?
--------
Thanks, Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236920#236920
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
Thanks, Michael.
I'm now aware that I'll blend the Riblett airfoil construction into the
specific detail called out in my plans.
On a technical construction note (the egg or chicken story), how does
one transition from full-size ribs to ailerons during the jig work?
Make a bunch of full-size then cut them to order, or make required
number of full-size, then modify the jig?
And is it advisable to use 1/2" Sitka in the aileron spars or are you
all using something else?
With great thanks,
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil
Al, I am using the 3 piece wing plan for the Pietenpol with the
Riblett 612 ribs. What you must do is build the ribs per the Riblett
full scale drawing and modify/include what you need to do match the
print of the wing. (regardless of the type of plane/wing) Our Pietenpol
wings use compression struts at the drag cable attach points on the
spars. These are separate from the ribs. Our ribs do not include any
kind of built in compression struts. (if I am reading you question
correctly.) There are extra braces that are built into a few ribs for
the ends of the wings and those are also shown on the Riblett plan. My
3 piece Pietenpol wing will use a total of 31 ribs.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Al,
At least for the Pietenpol, you build full size ribs for the aileron portion
of the wing. After you have assembled the wing and finished installing the
various components for the ailerons (braces, beams/spars, etc) you cut the
ailerons free of the wing. Then you finish the aileron and bay off by
enclosing the open ends and adding 1/4x1/4 filler strips as shown in the
plans. What one might term the aileron false spar and aileron spar are
referred to as the "aileron beams" in the Piet plans, and are shown to be
1/2".
Ryan
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:38 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote:
> Thanks, Michael.
>
> I'm now aware that I'll blend the Riblett airfoil construction into the
> specific detail called out in my plans.
>
> On a technical construction note (the egg or chicken story), how does one
> transition from full-size ribs to ailerons during the jig work? Make a
> bunch of full-size then cut them to order, or make required number
> of full-size, then modify the jig?
>
> And is it advisable to use 1/2" Sitka in the aileron spars or are you all
> using something else?
>
> With great thanks,
>
> Al
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Michael Perez
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 30, 2009 11:07 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil
>
> Al, I am using the 3 piece wing plan for the Pietenpol with the Riblett
> 612 ribs. What you must do is build the ribs per the Riblett full scale
> drawing and modify/include what you need to do match the print of the wing.
> (regardless of the type of plane/wing) Our Pietenpol wings use compression
> struts at the drag cable attach points on the spars. These are separate from
> the ribs. Our ribs do not include any kind of built in compression struts.
> (if I am reading you question correctly.) There are extra braces that are
> built into a few ribs for the ends of the wings and those are also shown on
> the Riblett plan. My 3 piece Pietenpol wing will use a total of 31 ribs.
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: elongating holes
Date:
Mar 30, 2009
That's exactly what I did. I used 3/16" hard piano wire
from the hobby shop and a straight piece of 1 1/2" L
iron clamped 1"above the hinge rod. Clamp one hinge
to the stab then the other at the other end. Measure
the center rod as 1" down, clamp and start drilling.
Once I'd established the hinges and drilled them I
marked around the bases with a knife and routed out
the wood with a little hand router.
Also, wood cabane struts, go to my message #40283
from Jan 6 for strength and load calculations. Ash or
any other hardwood is overkill. Especialy considering
the weight penalty. Wing struts require a few more
strategicaly placed bolts.
Clif
Tom,
I also had trouble with those plans-built hinges to line up. I had to
do a lot of fudging like you propose. Somebody has to have figured out a
way to line-up all those things. Maybe you could put a rod all the way
through all three hinges before marking for the holes in the wood?
Dan Helsper
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/30/09 17:56:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Wood Adhesion
Hello all,
Here is a link to the results of a wood adhesion study I came across. It is a
pretty good read. I am looking at other parts of the website. It certainly has
some really good information about wood in general.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1997/vick97a.pdf
Regards,
Ameet Savant
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
hand propping
I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross coun
try trips assures me that the airplane
will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the tailwheel an
d then to either a tie down anchor in
the pavement or a nearby fence post.
I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) prop you
r airplane but yourself. I have had
people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea what
they were doing and were not
only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add to thi
s, most times those people didn't
get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know for a
fact that a person is experienced
at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself either.
I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big old leg
swing to prop a little Continental
engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big leg k
ick and if timed properly and you
have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be actuall
y able to prop the thing with one
hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big theatrical l
eg kick helped back in the days
when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's and d
idn't require any off-balance
leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on the pr
op while stepping away from it
with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- not bal
ancing on one foot and hoping you
don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever works fo
r you.
The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters
for airplanes and cars. :))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
Re: hand propping
Mike, I agree about letting just anyone hand prop. The military flying club where
I learned to fly had an actual hand propping "Class" that you were required
to pass. Not difficult but you had to take it in order to go in the Piper cub.
Rules I quickly remember:
Pilot behid stick. not a wuffo
no hats or floppy shirt tails.
we did the leg swing but mostly as a reminder to be moving away from the prop after
swinging it.
Never run around the plane. (actually never run on the ramp.)
When the "Pilot" says "hot" his hand is on the mag switch, when "cold" his hand
is visible to the "Propper"
NEVER RUSH the proceedures!
Blue Skies and safe propping,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:29
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
>
> I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on
> cross country trips assures me that the airplane
> will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the
> tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in
> the pavement or a nearby fence post.
>
> I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone)
> prop your airplane but yourself. I have had
> people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no
> idea what they were doing and were not
> only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To
> add to this, most times those people didn't
> get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you
> know for a fact that a person is experienced
> at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself
> either.
> I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a
> big old leg swing to prop a little Continental
> engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a
> big leg kick and if timed properly and you
> have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should
> be actually able to prop the thing with one
> hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big
> theatrical leg kick helped back in the days
> when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped
> Stearman's and didn't require any off-balance
> leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down
> on the prop while stepping away from it
> with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion--
> not balancing on one foot and hoping you
> don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever
> works for you.
>
> The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric
> starters for airplanes and cars. :))
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Hand propping a 65
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Jim=3B the way I start my 65 is pretty specific to the Stromberg NA-S3A1 ca
rb. What carb do you have on yours?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Mikeee- that is truly a gorgeous airplane=2C and a very interesting aileron
cable setup. Sure makes it easy to inspect and service the cables and pul
leys!
The one thing that puzzles me is the apparent thrust-line of the engine. I
t sure seems to be cocked down but maybe that's just the angle of the photo
s or something. Look at the line of the top longerons and then the line of
the head or the prop axis. I guess that's the way they're setup though...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Robert Gow" <rgow(at)avionicsdesign.ca>
Subject:
some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
There is a deliberate downward cant to the engine (memory says 3 degrees but
it may be more). This is to allow the thrust line to line up with the
direction of flight more directly in a climb. At least that's according to
the article in the Flying and Glider manual. I guess with 36 horsepower he
thought he could use any advantage at all.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: March 31, 2009 8:32 AM
To: Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying
in California
Mikeee- that is truly a gorgeous airplane, and a very interesting aileron
cable setup. Sure makes it easy to inspect and service the cables and
pulleys!
The one thing that puzzles me is the apparent thrust-line of the engine.
It sure seems to be cocked down but maybe that's just the angle of the
photos or something. Look at the line of the top longerons and then the
line of the head or the prop axis. I guess that's the way they're setup
though...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
Re: hand propping
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Mike,
I agree about the leg kick being an unnecessary thing that's picked up from
the movies. In addition to being unnecessary, it also makes the whole
process more dangerous. When your leg is coming back down and swinging
behind you, the natural movement for your torso to make is to lean forward.
You actually end up bringing your upper body closer to the path of the
propeller with that ridiculous method.
One thing I still haven't gotten used to, since getting hitched, is propping
with a wedding ring. I always take it off and slip it in my pocket, as I
don't want to scratch the finish on the prop. :P
Ryan
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:14 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
>
> I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross
> country trips assures me that the airplane
> will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the tailwheel
> and then to either a tie down anchor in
> the pavement or a nearby fence post.
>
> I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) prop
> your airplane but yourself. I have had
> people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea what
> they were doing and were not
> only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add to
> this, most times those people didn't
> get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know for a
> fact that a person is experienced
> at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself either.
>
> I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big old leg
> swing to prop a little Continental
> engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big leg
> kick and if timed properly and you
> have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be
> actually able to prop the thing with one
> hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big theatrical
> leg kick helped back in the days
> when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's and
> didn't require any off-balance
> leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on the
> prop while stepping away from it
> with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- not
> balancing on one foot and hoping you
> don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever works
> for you.
>
> The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters
> for airplanes and cars. :))
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: hand propping
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Mike
I pretty much agree with your thoughts. Having wire wheels, I carry 2
nylon cargo straps which get tucked under the seat while flying. I tie
from the rear cabane strut, around the top of the wheel and back to the
cabane. one on each side. It keeps the wheels locked in place.
Also the country really went downhill when teachers lost the paddle in
the classroom.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross
country trips assures me that the airplane
will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the
tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in
the pavement or a nearby fence post.
I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone)
prop your airplane but yourself. I have had
people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea
what they were doing and were not
only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add
to this, most times those people didn't
get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know
for a fact that a person is experienced
at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself
either.
I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big
old leg swing to prop a little Continental
engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big
leg kick and if timed properly and you
have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be
actually able to prop the thing with one
hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big
theatrical leg kick helped back in the days
when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's
and didn't require any off-balance
leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on
the prop while stepping away from it
with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion--
not balancing on one foot and hoping you
don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever
works for you.
The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric
starters for airplanes and cars. :))
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
I agree with Ryan, Al. You use the same rib jig for all the ribs. The only
difference are the extra cap strip pieces that are shown on the Riblett pla
n as well as the Pietenpol plan for the end ribs. (the last wing rib before
the center section and the last rib at the wing tip.)
-
Build the entire wing with all the aileron Pisces in place. Then using a sm
all hand saw, cut the aileron free. Once free finish up the cut areas both
on the free aileron as well as the aileron bay on the wing as per the print
s. (As Ryan said. We are referring to the Pietenpol prints.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
Yup that's the way the engine is supposed to be mounted on the Piet and the
GN-1 Aircamper.No mistake about it that's right in the directions.=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@h
otmail.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol List =0ASent: Tue
sday, March 31, 2009 9:32:27 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous ph
otos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California=0A=0AMikeee- that is truly a
gorgeous airplane, and a very interesting aileron cable setup.- Sure make
s it easy to inspect and service the cables and pulleys!=0A-=0AThe one th
ing that puzzles me is the apparent thrust-line of the engine.- It sure s
eems to be cocked down but maybe that's just the angle of the photos or som
ething.- Look at the line of the top longerons and then the line of the h
ead or the prop axis.- I guess that's the way they're setup though...=0A
-=0AOscar Zuniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrag
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
hand propping
Great posts about the wedding ring Ryan and paddling kids in school Dick N.
! What about when they let women vote and start smoking ? :))))
Uh boy, I can hear the bleeding heart liberals now thinking I might be actu
ally serious. PS...take a break, unwind undies. I am just KIDDING.
PSS---- I re-read my post and by no means did I mean to belittle the seriou
sness of hand propping an airplane nor did I want to make fun
of those incredibly brave men who flew early hand-propped airplanes both in
civilian and military roles by likening them to my grandmother's
ability to hand prop but if you do it, just try to learn from someone who r
eally knows what they are doing and practice it on a dead engine
somewhere safe with the plug wires disconnected and the fuel off. Hand pr
opping is still a super serious thing and the one post put it best----
take your time, think thru each step. If you're in a rush, don't fly.
Go home and have some chips. Take 5, chock the plane, tie it down,
do anything but rush.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: hand propping
With an electric starter it just means that you old guys can fly longer!=0A
=0A=0A=0AThe whole country went down the drain when they invented electric
starters for airplanes and cars.-- :))=0A-=0AMike C.=0A-=0A-=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: hand propping
There was a man that used to come to our RAA meetings.One day he happened t
o just move his prop to the horizontal position and it fired and almost kil
led him.The prop stuck his head and caved part of it in.He doesn't fly anym
ore or come to our meetings.Be careful out there when touching props in any
manner.You never know when a mag off switch is going to fail or if there i
s gas in the chamber or when it will fire.Always treat a prop like you woul
d a loaded gun,never assume anything.=0A=0Aarchive this=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____
___________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerosp
ace Corporation]" =0ATo: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.
com" =0ASent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:25:4
2 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping=0A=0A=0AGreat posts about
the wedding ring Ryan and paddling kids in school Dick N.-- !---
-- What about when they let women vote and start smoking ?- :))))=0A
-=0AUh boy, I can hear the bleeding heart liberals now thinking I might b
e actually serious.-- PS...take a break, unwind undies.- I am just KI
DDING. =0A-=0APSS---- I re-read my post and by no means did I mean to bel
ittle the seriousness of hand propping an airplane nor did I want to make f
un=0Aof those incredibly brave men who flew early hand-propped airplanes bo
th in civilian and military roles by likening them to my grandmother's=0Aab
ility to hand prop but if you do it, just try to learn from someone who rea
lly knows what they are doing and practice it on a dead engine=0Asomewhere
safe with the plug wires disconnected and the fuel off.-- Hand propping
is still a super serious thing and the one post put it best----=0Atake you
r time, think thru each step.-- If you're in a rush, don't fly.--
- Go home and have some chips.-- Take 5, chock the plane, tie it down
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
Re: hand propping
A fellow in the Amarillo, TX area has had two incidents with moving a prop and
the engine starting.
First time he was turning the prop to "Break the oil loose" on a somewhat cool
day and his tripacer started and taxied into a Cessna 182 with 3 pax waiting for
the pilot to finish paying for fuel. No one was hurt but both planes were damages.
They think he had accidently hit the mag switch onto one mag while loading
the plane. I heard it happen, and when I stuck my head outside there was
still aluminium flying. Sounded like someone putting a mower on a steel fencepost.
Second time he had a single seat homebuilt and was turning the prop and it fired.
He dove out of the way and the plane taxied down the runway at an angle and
tookoff. but the wheels caught on a Bobwire fence and the plane flipped onto
railroad tracks. No train was coming and the plane wreckage was rescured.
I think he has quit flying. He had a good reputation as a safe pilot and was otherwise
respected.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
----- Original Message -----
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:56
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
> There was a man that used to come to our RAA meetings.One day he
> happened to just move his prop to the horizontal position and it
> fired and almost killed him.The prop stuck his head and caved part
> of it in.He doesn't fly anymore or come to our meetings.Be careful
> out there when touching props in any manner.You never know when a
> mag off switch is going to fail or if there is gas in the chamber
> or when it will fire.Always treat a prop like you would a loaded
> gun,never assume anything.
>
> archive this
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" <
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:25:42 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
>
>
> Great posts about the wedding ring Ryan and paddling kids in school Dick N. !
What about when they let women vote and start smoking ? :))))
>
> Uh boy, I can hear the bleeding heart liberals now thinking I might be actually
serious. PS...take a break, unwind undies. I am just KIDDING.
>
> PSS---- I re-read my post and by no means did I mean to belittle the seriousness
of hand propping an airplane nor did I want to make fun
> of those incredibly brave men who flew early hand-propped airplanes both in civilian
and military roles by likening them to my grandmother's
> ability to hand prop but if you do it, just try to learn from someone who really
knows what they are doing and practice it on a dead engine
> somewhere safe with the plug wires disconnected and the fuel off. Hand propping
is still a super serious thing and the one post put it best----
> take your time, think thru each step. If you're in a rush, don't fly. Go home
and have some chips. Take 5, chock the plane, tie it down===============
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Mac Zirges" <macz(at)casco.net>
Subject:
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
Date:
Jan 01, 1990
Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury
struts--and it will make it easier for passengers to get in also since
he can then remove the crosswires at front cockpit side.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708
Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE
WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER
Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine
Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change
Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO
To search FAA registrations go here:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
bike.mike(at)comcast.net
Subject:
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
I believe you're thinking of the cabane brace struts that tie the top of the cabanes
to the engine mounts, maintaining wing fore/aft position. Jury struts stabilize
the lift struts near (but not at) mid span of the struts. NX12988 does
have jury struts. The cross-bracing cables by the passenger cockpit are what
is specified in the original plans. NX12988 looks beautifully plans-built.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mac Zirges" <macz(at)casco.net>
Sent: Monday, January 1, 1990 2:02:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury struts--and it
will make it easier for passengers to get in also since he can then remove the
crosswires at front cockpit side.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California
go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708
Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE WALTER Certificate
Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER Status Valid Type Aircraft
Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change
None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005
Fractional Owner NO
To search FAA registrations go here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Date: 4/6/07 12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: hand propping
From:
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Steven I tried to e-mail you but the address didn't work-do you live in Amarillo?
I'm 50 miles away.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237057#237057
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
Californi
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
It has jury struts. Those are the ones out on the main struts. The original plans
show the brace cables between the cabanes on the right side. Walt tried
to keep it as original to the plans (Flying and Glider Manual) as possible. Heck
he even used an N number from one of Mr. Pietenpol's ships. That particular
one though had the steel split axle gear. Sure is a pretty ship!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237063#237063
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
Re: hand propping
Raymond, I think we discussed a Piet that is in a museum in Canadian at some point
in the past.
----- Original Message -----
From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:41
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hand propping
>
> Steven I tried to e-mail you but the address didn't work-do you live in Amarillo?
I'm 50 miles away.Raymond
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237057#237057
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Re: Hand propping a 65
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Oscar, my carb is the same as yours, NA-S3A1, per my engine log
book.-Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65
Jim; the way I start my 65 is pretty specific to the Stromberg NA-S3A1
carb. What carb do you have on yours?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/31/09 06:02:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Fuselage Plywood
From:
"chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Hello all,
I apologize if this has been asked but there was little in the archive regarding
plywood preferences for the fuselage large pieces. I cant seem to find sitka
spruce (preferred) in large sheets. Does anyone have a good source and/or recommendations
for/against the following 3 choices from Boulter?
Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn
Okoume, Rotary Cut
White Birch, Rotary Cut
Thanks,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237080#237080
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
Re: Fuselage Plywood
LOL, at first glance this looked like an email from Kenya asking me to help get
$10million out of the country by givng them my bank account number.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
>
> Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn
> Okoume, Rotary Cut
> White Birch, Rotary Cut
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
jack phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuselage Plywood
Hi Steve,
=C2-
I used mahagony (1/8") for the sides and birch (1/4") for the floor.=C2-
Birch is stronger, mahogany is lighter.
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
--- On Tue, 3/31/09, chase143 wrote:
From: chase143 <chase143(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 3:50 PM
Hello all,
I apologize if this has been asked but there was little in the archive
regarding plywood preferences for the fuselage large pieces. I can=C3=A2
=82=AC=84=A2t seem
to find sitka spruce (preferred) in large sheets. Does anyone have a good s
ource
and/or recommendations for/against the following 3 choices from Boulter?
Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn
Okoume, Rotary Cut
White Birch, Rotary Cut
Thanks,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237080#237080
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Subject:
Re: hand propping
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Breaking the oil loose, eh? You would think that even on the coldest day in
Texas the starter would have the oomph to overcome the friction from all
that solidified oil... ;)
I think one of the things that this gentleman's tales of woe illustrates is
to avoid complacency. One should strive to not become complacent in the air;
there is no reason to not have the same mindset on the ground. If you are
going to be moving the propeller, there is absolutely no reason to not take
the time to step around to the cockpit/cabin and verify that the switches
are off, the throttle is closed, etc. If you are pulling the engine through
before you go flying you should verify those conditions. If you are turning
the prop into a particular position after you have shutdown, then you should
have verified those conditions when you exited the aircraft.
As Mike pointed out, take your time and be deliberate about the act of
hand-propping an airplane. As they used to tell us on the rifle ranges: slow
is smooth, and smooth is fast.
And as Harvey stated, treat every propeller as if it is loaded. And never
point your propeller at anything that you do not intend to fly....or
something like that. :)
Ryan
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> wrote:
> steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
>
> A fellow in the Amarillo, TX area has had two incidents with moving a prop
> and the engine starting.
>
> First time he was turning the prop to "Break the oil loose" on a somewhat
> cool day and his tripacer started and taxied into a Cessna 182 with 3 pax
> waiting for the pilot to finish paying for fuel. No one was hurt but both
> planes were damages. They think he had accidently hit the mag switch onto
> one mag while loading the plane. I heard it happen, and when I stuck my head
> outside there was still aluminium flying. Sounded like someone putting a
> mower on a steel fencepost.
>
> Second time he had a single seat homebuilt and was turning the prop and it
> fired. He dove out of the way and the plane taxied down the runway at an
> angle and tookoff. but the wheels caught on a Bobwire fence and the plane
> flipped onto railroad tracks. No train was coming and the plane wreckage was
> rescured.
>
> I think he has quit flying. He had a good reputation as a safe pilot and
> was otherwise respected.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
hand propping story
When I was a kid (17 or 18) and the line boy,-I remember having a very cl
ose call while handpropping a tricycle gear cessna 150.- The ramp was wet
ashphalt and some one left the master on for 3 or 4 hrs.-I don't think
-the guy in the cockpit knew his ass from his elbow when it came to start
ing an engine.- Long story short He had the throttle set wrong (wide open
) and I tried and tried to get it started by hand propping it.- Eventuall
y a old timer came out and chastized me for not having someone sit on the t
ail to get more of a taildragger stance, and he sat on it.- Well a few ba
ldes later after exausting myself-I slipped and went right on my back und
er the prop.- Thank God I thought quick enough to let go of the prop on t
he way down, so it did not go through compression.- That was the only clo
se call I have had with props,-except for-some old fart at Brodhead las
t year wanting to try on the piet for size and he hit the starter button wi
th his
knee while climbing out, and dad got whacked in the arm by the prop.- Pr
ops are inherintly dangerous if you got a electric starter or you hand prop
they will get you if you are not careful.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
hand propping story
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
From:
"Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
When I worked at Elliott Flying Service going through college, we had a
guy and his partner prop a Bellanca, 6 cylinder, not sure of the size.
Full throttle, brakes couldn't hold, he went through a fence and into
the line office. Lot's of damage to plane and property, lucky no people
were injured!
Jack
www.textors.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuselage Plywood
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
Just make sure you get a type that's glued with the correct glue.
It's been a long time since i looked into this, but there is some
kind of Lloyd's or British Mil. Spec. rating that indicates the
correct adhesive.
Kip Gardner
On Mar 31, 2009, at 4:20 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> NGB"
>
> LOL, at first glance this looked like an email from Kenya asking me
> to help get $10million out of the country by givng them my bank
> account number.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D.
>
>>
>> Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn
>> Okoume, Rotary Cut
>> White Birch, Rotary Cut
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
I'm nearly certain that I saw a scene in TGWP where an airplane is propped
and the pilot reaches over to work the ignition switches which are located
on the outside of the cockpit. It's not the first time I've seen mag switc
hes on the outside of those old-timey planes=2C either. Now there's a way
to ensure that the propper knows the condition of the mags=2C hot or cold:
they are clearly visible to him/her.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: hand propping
Date:
Mar 31, 2009
The Tigermoths I've seen, like this one, have the mag switches
on the outside ahead of the pilots windshield where they're
visible to the prop man.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
If you are going to be moving the propeller, there is absolutely no
reason to not take the time to step around to the cockpit/cabin and
verify that the switches are off, the throttle is closed, etc. Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
oukume plywood
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
Most boat builders are going with Oukume plywood these days. It is very
strong, stiff and exceptionally lightweight. It's a newer wood on the scene
than the old standbyes, but it is good stuff.
Two minor drawbacks. It is more suseptible to rot than the others, so when
used in a boat, must be well varnished. Shouldn't matter in a plane, just
varnish carefully as you would anyways. Second drawback is it's odd pinkish
color. I'm not sure I'd like it in my cockpits, though one could likely
play around with some stain and fix it.
If I were building again, I'd use it for as much as possible.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
Larry Williams model A Piet has this setup.
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
the ignition switches which are located on the outside of the cockpit. Now there's
a way to ensure that the propper knows the condition of the mags, hot or
cold: they are clearly visible to him/her.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Fuselage Plywood
From:
"chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
Bill C.~~Sorry, on my plywood post I said I could not find sheets of Sitka Spruce,
I meant to say Finnish Birch, that was a total Piet building Freudian slip!
Thanks all for the replies, and notes on waterproof ply, etc .
Jack, do you remember where you found the mahogany, and was it a specific type,
all I find is from Boulter? Will also look into Okoume Marine Ply.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237183#237183
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
From:
jack phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Fuselage Plywood
I just bought regular aircraft grade mahogany and birch plywood from Aircra
ft Spruce and Specialty.- Figure out all you will need-ahead of time so
you can order it all at once - the shipping costs more than the plywood.
-
Jack
NX899JP
--- On Wed, 4/1/09, chase143 wrote:
From: chase143 <chase143(at)aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Plywood
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 8:31 AM
Bill C.~~Sorry, on my plywood post I said I could not find sheets of Sitka
Spruce, I meant to say Finnish Birch, that was a total Piet building Freudi
an
slip!
Thanks all for the replies, and notes on waterproof ply, etc .
Jack, do you remember where you found the mahogany, and was it a specific t
ype,
all I find is from Boulter? Will also look into Okoume Marine Ply.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237183#237183
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo(at)msn.com>
Subject:
Re: hand propping
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
I completely agree about the absurd leg swing. Placing yourself
off-balance on one foot in front of a spinning propeller is just stupid,
not to mention unnecessary. My Travel Air, with a 220 Continental
(Stearman engine) does not have a starter, or an impulse, and I have
hand propped every one of its 1800 hours. It does not take a leg swing
to get it going, either, and certainly not a C-65. I never allow anyone
in the cockpit, I have a bungee that I hook onto the throttle to hold it
full aft (closed). If I am on a crowded or sloping ramp I tie down the
tail (mostly to make airport feel better)
I trained dozens how to prop my Champ years ago. C-65 and no impulse.
Stand flat footed facing prop, hook last joint of R/H pinkie over
trailing edge of prop, pull down firmly. Started every time, even
without an impulse.
The biggest thing is to NOT be afraid of it, and ALWAYS treat it as if
it were hot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross
country trips assures me that the airplane
will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the
tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in
the pavement or a nearby fence post.
I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone)
prop your airplane but yourself. I have had
people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea
what they were doing and were not
only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add
to this, most times those people didn't
get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know
for a fact that a person is experienced
at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself
either.
I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big
old leg swing to prop a little Continental
engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big
leg kick and if timed properly and you
have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be
actually able to prop the thing with one
hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big
theatrical leg kick helped back in the days
when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's
and didn't require any off-balance
leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on
the prop while stepping away from it
with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion--
not balancing on one foot and hoping you
don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever
works for you.
The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric
starters for airplanes and cars. :))
Mike C.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
California
Date:
Jan 01, 1990
Oops, you're right. I have never been good at getting the names of all
the specific parts right. I usually say something like "the part in
front of the wing that hangs down etc." Shows my lack of
sophistication.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: bike.mike(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
I believe you're thinking of the cabane brace struts that tie the top
of the cabanes to the engine mounts, maintaining wing fore/aft position.
Jury struts stabilize the lift struts near (but not at) mid span of the
struts. NX12988 does have jury struts. The cross-bracing cables by the
passenger cockpit are what is specified in the original plans. NX12988
looks beautifully plans-built.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mac Zirges" <macz(at)casco.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 1, 1990 2:02:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury
struts--and it will make it easier for passengers to get in also since
he can then remove the crosswires at front cockpit side.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708
Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE
WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER
Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine
Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change
Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO
To search FAA registrations go here:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 4/6/07 12:00 AM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Hand propping a 65
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
Jim=3B
I'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list=2C thing
s that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine=2C hot or co
ld. That was not always the case!
First of all=2C understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel circuit f
or when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so=2C for idle. I guess the
re is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck fuel up thro
ugh the main jet. This becomes important in the starting drill because man
y old-timers assume that the throttle is to be 'cracked' to start=2C but th
at's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the Stromberg doesn't have) and for
starting I pull mine all the way back to the idle stop so the carb draws fu
el through the idle circuit only.
Cold starts are easy=2C and I don't have impulse on either of my mags=2C do
n't have a primer=2C don't swing my leg=2C and I was once the 90-pound weak
ling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is=2C it's not a d
ifficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no sweat unl
ess you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more times. More on
that later.
For cold starts=2C I set mags off and wheels chocked=2C fuel on=2C throttle
back to the stop=2C and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly s
lowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw a hu
ge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging the pro
p=2C something that has been mentioned on this list before=2C is to start t
he prop swing slightly upward first=2C then down. It should sort of slurp
fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing. It's all done
in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire on the second pu
ll.
For hot starts=2C the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it wi
ll be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always used t
o be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up again... it w
ould flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting it down when yo
u're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to kill it with the mag
switch and as the engine winds down=2C ease the throttle open so it's pull
ing in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the throttle is left at idle whe
n the engine is shut down=2C with no spark the engine pulls fuel through th
e idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited and sits there=2C flooding the en
gine. Once the engine stops=2C pull the throttle back to the stop=2C shut
off the fuel valve=2C and you're shut down.
For flooded starts=2C shut off the fuel=2C chock the wheels=2C kill the ign
ition=2C open the throttle all the way=2C and start pulling the prop throug
h backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times=2C look to see if f
uel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate=2C the best thing
to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate (t
hrottle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do is put the thro
ttle back to the idle stop=2C turn on the mags and fuel=2C and try normal s
tart. If it doesn't start in the first couple of attempts=2C it's still fl
ooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine usually starts on the second
effort because I get impatient with all those fools standing around laughin
g at me trying to start my old timey airplane and I try to short-cut the pr
ocess.
On the shutdown procedure=2C some would argue that the engine should be sto
pped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out of fuel
. That's OK too=2C but not the way I do it because I like to have the floa
t bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that the Stromberg
does NOT have idle cutoff=2C so you still need to kill the engine with the
ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget to turn off the ma
gs!!!
Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly=2C after
a couple of dozen flights in different conditions=2C hand-propping comes p
retty automatically unless something is wrong (spark=2C air=2C or fuel...)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Re: Hand propping a 65
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
Oscar, Thank you, thank you for sharing your experience, especially
since we have the same carb. and no electric start. I really appreciate
your help, which will be put to good use as soon as it warms up a
bit.---Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65
Jim;
I'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list,
things that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine, hot
or cold. That was not always the case!
First of all, understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel
circuit for when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so, for idle. I
guess there is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck
fuel up through the main jet. This becomes important in the starting
drill because many old-timers assume that the throttle is to be
'cracked' to start, but that's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the
Stromberg doesn't have) and for starting I pull mine all the way back to
the idle stop so the carb draws fuel through the idle circuit only.
Cold starts are easy, and I don't have impulse on either of my mags,
don't have a primer, don't swing my leg, and I was once the 90-pound
weakling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is, it's
not a difficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no
sweat unless you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more
times. More on that later.
For cold starts, I set mags off and wheels chocked, fuel on, throttle
back to the stop, and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly
slowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw
a huge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging
the prop, something that has been mentioned on this list before, is to
start the prop swing slightly upward first, then down. It should sort
of slurp fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing.
It's all done in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire
on the second pull.
For hot starts, the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it
will be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always
used to be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up
again... it would flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting
it down when you're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to
kill it with the mag switch and as the engine winds down, ease the
throttle open so it's pulling in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the
throttle is left at idle when the engine is shut down, with no spark the
engine pulls fuel through the idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited
and sits there, flooding the engine. Once the engine stops, pull the
throttle back to the stop, shut off the fuel valve, and you're shut
down.
For flooded starts, shut off the fuel, chock the wheels, kill the
ignition, open the throttle all the way, and start pulling the prop
through backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times, look to
see if fuel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate, the
best thing to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel
evaporate (throttle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do
is put the throttle back to the idle stop, turn on the mags and fuel,
and try normal start. If it doesn't start in the first couple of
attempts, it's still flooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine
usually starts on the second effort because I get impatient with all
those fools standing around laughing at me trying to start my old timey
airplane and I try to short-cut the process.
On the shutdown procedure, some would argue that the engine should be
stopped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out
of fuel. That's OK too, but not the way I do it because I like to have
the float bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that
the Stromberg does NOT have idle cutoff, so you still need to kill the
engine with the ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget
to turn off the mags!!!
Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly,
after a couple of dozen flights in different conditions, hand-propping
comes pretty automatically unless something is wrong (spark, air, or
fuel...)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/01/09 06:06:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
From:
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject:
Re: Hand propping a 65
We have a Stromberg and find that shutting down by turning the fuel
off results in easy starting for the next go. An added benefit is the
"cool" factor of taxiing up, turning to put the tail towards the
hangar, and having the engine juuuust run out of fuel all in one
swell foop.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
Subject:
hand proping
Some things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.
What does turning the prop backwards accomplish?
If this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a
reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ?
You will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the sharpest knife in th
e
set.
Ted Stone
corvair piet builder
**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops =93 Starting at $399
ttp:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540506%3B35046329%3Bx)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: hand proping
By turning the prop backwards this clears the engine of unwanted excess fue
l when it's flooded. Waiting around does the same thing but it takes longer
. If you have an electric start you can do somewhat the same thing with the
mags off and just using the starter motor to turn it through but it will h
eat up your starter motor and run down your battery. If your like me and yo
u don't have a charging system, you don't want to do that. When-I have fl
ooded the engine I usually shut everything off, get out and prop backwards
by hand. When starting from a cold start I will prime then turn the prop th
rough about six times by hand-with all mags and master off. Then when I g
et in and turn on master and mags and crack the throttle to about somewhere
between 1/4 and 1/2, then when I hit that starter button she usually start
s with no problem. Sometimes I will give her some more prime when turning h
er over if she is being a bitch that day but that's when you have to
be careful not to over do it and flood her.-I am using an 80 hp Franklin
with a Marvel - Schebler carb, gravity fed.If she's hot; usually piming a
lot or even a little can cause more grief than enough.Most of the time just
get in and put the throttle where I mentioned earlier.Turn all the switch'
s on and push the starter button and most of the time she'll start no probl
em. Unless there's a bunch of people around which usual causes her to flood
because she is shy and wants to make an ass out of me!--=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "TGSTONE236(at)aol.com" <TGSTONE23
6(at)aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, April 1, 2
009 4:32:40 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping=0A=0ASome things I d
on't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.=0A=0AWhat does turning the
prop backwards accomplish?=0A=0AIf this is necessary why doesn't the engine
with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same as a hand pro
p engine ?=0A=0AYou will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the shar
pest knife in the set.=0A=0ATed Stone=0Acorvair piet builder=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0ANew Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399
===================
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: hand proping
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
If the engine is flooded, by turning the engine backwards, the valve
sequence works in reverse.
The exhaust valve opens and pulls fresh air (no more gas) into the
exhaust pipes,thru the engine and then the intake valve opens and the
gas vapor rich air is pushed out the intake manifold. By repeating this
the flooded engine is flushed of the gas, and dries it out.
It's not done on the modern engines cause thay are controlled by a
computer, and rarely flood.
While our planes are working with 1940's technology.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping
Some things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.
What does turning the prop backwards accomplish?
If this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a
reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ?
You will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the sharpest knife
in the set.
Ted Stone
corvair piet builder
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
New Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: hand proping
When a modern engine floods you turn the key off ,depress the gas peddle to
the floor and hold it there,do not pump the gas peddle,turn the key on and
turn to start and keep turning with the peddle to the floor.This also work
s for vapour locks as well.Nothing to do with Piets but secretly I just kne
w you wanted to know.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: walt =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed
nesday, April 1, 2009 5:37:30 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propin
g=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AIf the engine is flooded, by turning the engine backwar
ds, the valve sequence works in reverse.=0AThe exhaust valve opens and pull
s fresh air (no more gas) into the exhaust pipes,thru the engine and then t
he intake valve opens and the gas vapor rich air is pushed out the intake m
anifold. By repeating this the flooded engine is flushed of the gas, and dr
ies it out.=0AIt's not done on the modern engines cause thay are controlled
by a computer, and rarely flood.=0AWhile our planes are working with 1940'
s technology.=0Awalt evans=0ANX140DL=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: We
dnesday, April 01, 2009 4:32 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping=0AS
ome things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.=0A=0AWhat doe
s turning the prop backwards accomplish?=0A=0AIf this is necessary why does
n't the engine with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same
as a hand prop engine ?=0A=0AYou will have to over look my stupidity as I'
m not the sharpest knife in the set.=0A=0ATed Stone=0Acorvair piet builder
=0A=0A________________________________=0ANew Low Prices on Dell Laptops - S
tarting at $399 =0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http:/
/forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.mat
=============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct- or is my inbox me
ssed up?- It is dating your email as year 1990.- Just wondering, I almo
st thought I had a time machine!- Well I guess a piet is a time machine,
ha ha ha.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 01, 2009
From:
jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
tanks for you email and dont have aidea about these dates never before some
one telmy about so please telmy if is a problem
--- On Wed, 4/1/09, shad bell wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 6:08 PM
Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct- or is my inbox me
ssed up?- It is dating your email as year 1990.- Just wondering, I almo
st thought I had a time machine!- Well I guess a piet is a time machine,
ha ha ha.
-
Shad
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
turnbuckle cable ends
Date:
Apr 02, 2009
I need a number of turnbuckle cable eye ends and have an excess of pin eye ends.
I was told that I could drill the pin eye ends to a larger size and chamfer
the holes to turn them into cable eyes. Has anyone done this?
Since I don't have any cable eye ends to look at how much metal is there between
the cable hole and the outside of the fitting?
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 02, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
that one was good, it was dated 2009.
-
shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 02, 2009
From:
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject:
turnbuckle cable ends
Hello Rick,
-
That's what I did with some of my turnbuckles.- The pin and cable eye end
are the same but with different holes sizes.- If you are using turnbuckl
es rated for 1600 pounds, the thimble hole diameter should be .219 and for
800 pounds rated turnbuckles, the thimble hole diameter is .188
When you drill and chamfer the holes, you will loose the corrosion protecti
on it may have.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0ARecetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludab
le=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Mac Zirges" <macz(at)casco.net>
Subject:
Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
Date:
Jan 01, 1990
Shad--
My computer is an OLD one and has lost its time (and mind
sometimes)--just like me.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 5:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer
right?
Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct or is my
inbox messed up? It is dating your email as year 1990. Just wondering,
I almost thought I had a time machine! Well I guess a piet is a time
machine, ha ha ha.
Shad
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12:00 AM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
wood gear question
From:
"carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date:
Apr 02, 2009
Hi all
I am shaping the wood gear legs at the moment and looking at some pictures some
have what looks like tightly wraped string around them for what looks like about
2 inches.
Is this string? If so what type? Is it of any use or just for looks?
Hope I have explained this right
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237454#237454
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: wood gear question
Date:
Apr 02, 2009
On NX18235 it is waxed nylon cord. It might prevent the wood from splitting
but it is also cosmetic.
See attached picture.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 6:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear question
>
> Hi all
>
> I am shaping the wood gear legs at the moment and looking at some pictures
> some have what looks like tightly wraped string around them for what
> looks like about 2 inches.
> Is this string? If so what type? Is it of any use or just for looks?
> Hope I have explained this right
> Carson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237454#237454
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
<catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: wood gear question
Date:
Apr 02, 2009
I was told to use butchers twine which I believe is cotton string. Then
cover it with varnish. It might help with splitting but mine will be more
for looks.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 4:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear question
>
> Hi all
>
> I am shaping the wood gear legs at the moment and looking at some pictures
> some have what looks like tightly wraped string around them for what
> looks like about 2 inches.
> Is this string? If so what type? Is it of any use or just for looks?
> Hope I have explained this right
> Carson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237454#237454
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
wood gear question
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Greg=3B in the picture you posted=2C I assume the airplane was in some sort
of dry fit-up and not in airworthy condition at the time since it looks li
ke the bolt that holds the lower end of the lift strut to the fuselage atta
ch fitting is not secured. I also see that there is a castellated nut on t
hat bolt and wonder if you used a nylock there in the final installation?
I love the color=2C fit=2C and finish of your airplane. Very sanitary.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Michael, Bill, and Ryan,
My sincerest thanks go out to you Fellows.
It's hard for me to imagine how much more difficult (time consuming) it
must have been for those plans building guys in the '60s to collaborate.
I really hope that this plans-built stuff is not a dying art.
Truly,
Al Lyscars
Manchester, NH
Jigging the Riblett for GN-1
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil
I agree with Ryan, Al. You use the same rib jig for all the
ribs. The only difference are the extra cap strip pieces that are shown
on the Riblett plan as well as the Pietenpol plan for the end ribs. (the
last wing rib before the center section and the last rib at the wing
tip.)
Build the entire wing with all the aileron Pisces in place. Then
using a small hand saw, cut the aileron free. Once free finish up the
cut areas both on the free aileron as well as the aileron bay on the
wing as per the prints. (As Ryan said. We are referring to the Pietenpol
prints.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
From:
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Riblett Airfoil
You are quite welcome Al.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Fuselage building question
From:
"chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
The fuselage plans call for wedges placed between the braces in two spots. It looks
like this is reinforcement for the strut hardware at these points. I this
a good interpretation, or should all braces on the fuselage get wedges? Not being
a structural engineer, just wanted to see what some others have done, thanks.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237553#237553
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Subject:
Re: Fuselage building question
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Reenforcement for the wing strut and landing gear attachment points. Only
needed where shown on the plans.
Rick
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 2:34 PM, chase143 wrote:
>
> The fuselage plans call for wedges placed between the braces in two spots.
> It looks like this is reinforcement for the strut hardware at these points.
> I this a good interpretation, or should all braces on the fuselage get
> wedges? Not being a structural engineer, just wanted to see what some others
> have done, thanks.
> Steve
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237553#237553
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
From:
gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Subject:
Re: wood gear question
Very observant, Oscar.
The picture was taken during a fit up prior to first flight. A cotter-pinne
d castle nut was eventually fitted, very few Nylock nuts were used on the p
lane.
The sanitary condition=C2-lasted about 2 or 3 hours. I don't know how peo
ple keep their airplanes clean.
Are you planning to fly up to Brodhead / Oshkosh this year? We'd all love t
o see you there.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga " < taildrags @ hotmail .com>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 8:09:06 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Pietenpol -List: wood gear question
Greg; in the picture you posted, I assume the airplane was in some sort of
dry fit-up and not in airworthy condition at the time since it looks like t
he bolt that holds the lower end of the lift strut to the fuselage attach f
itting is not secured.=C2- I also see that there is a castellated nut on
that bolt and wonder if you used a nylock there in the final installation?
=C2-
I love the color, fit, and finish of your airplane.=C2- Very sanitary.
=C2-
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto : taildrags @ hotmail .com
website at http :// www . flysquirrel .net
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
wood gear question
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Oscar
The Jenney used the same style of landing gear and they wrapped the legs to protect
the pilot.
Lots fo bad landings in training.
I varnished the wood first and then wrapped the legs and soaked the cord to keep
it in place.
On NX18235 the legs are made of white ash . It's a little heavy but it is holding
up good.
Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sent: 4/3/2009 8:13:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear question
Greg; in the picture you posted, I assume the airplane was in some sort of dry
fit-up and not in airworthy condition at the time since it looks like the bolt
that holds the lower end of the lift strut to the fuselage attach fitting is
not secured. I also see that there is a castellated nut on that bolt and wonder
if you used a nylock there in the final installation?
I love the color, fit, and finish of your airplane. Very sanitary.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Greg asked-
>Are you planning to fly up to Brodhead / Oshkosh this year?
>We'd all love to see you there.
I've planned it a couple of years=2C have all the charts=2C have
planned the stops close to other Piet folks or grass strips
with fuel nearby=2C all of that- but can't commit. I'd love to
go. My wife says "go for it" but then again she gets nervous
every weekend that I go out to the hangar and tinker with the
airplane. She thinks if I'm tinkering with it=2C it must be
broken or unairworthy.
The only one who will know for sure will be Corky=2C because my
first planned stop is in Shreveport =3Bo)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com>
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Oscar, I look forward to seeing you at Brodhead this summer. Hope you
are able to make the trip.
Ernie Moreno
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Greg asked->Are you planning to fly up to Brodhead / Oshkosh this
year?>We'd all love to see you there.I've planned it a couple of years,
have all the charts, haveplanned the stops close to other Piet folks or
grass stripswith fuel nearby, all of that- but can't commit. I'd love
togo. My wife says "go for it" but then again she gets nervousevery
weekend that I go out to the hangar and tinker with theairplane. She
thinks if I'm tinkering with it, it must bebroken or unairworthy.The
only one who will know for sure will be Corky, because myfirst planned
stop is in Shreveport ;o)Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Oscar,
This is the year to make the trip.
We've been enjoying your stories for quite some time and want to see you
in person, at Brodhead. The gaggles going into Oshkosh will make that
trip segment a piece of cake. Just follow the guy in front of you.
San Antonio to Wisconsin and back will be a big trip. Take a few extra
days and make the journey, not the destination, the reason for the trip.
Flying cross-countries in a Piet is a hoot.
See you there........
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 9:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Greg asked->Are you planning to fly up to Brodhead / Oshkosh this
year?>We'd all love to see you there.I've planned it a couple of years,
have all the charts, haveplanned the stops close to other Piet folks or
grass stripswith fuel nearby, all of that- but can't commit. I'd love
togo. My wife says "go for it" but then again she gets nervousevery
weekend that I go out to the hangar and tinker with theairplane. She
thinks if I'm tinkering with it, it must bebroken or unairworthy.The
only one who will know for sure will be Corky, because myfirst planned
stop is in Shreveport ;o)Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Oscar said:
The only one who will know for sure will be Corky, because my
first planned stop is in Shreveport ;o)
Jim said:
And I'll make sure Corky has my phone number so I'll have an idea when
to expect you to arrive in Pryor....
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
We are waiting. Have you a nice hangar, transportation, dinner, king bed,
private bath and a big breakfast. Even a well stocked bar since I can't drink
anymore.
Isabelle and Corky
**************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
with TaxACT.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Apr 03, 2009
Subject:
piets for sale
I just put in Pietenpol for sale in Google and was surprised at the number of completed
ones that were for sale. All with A65 or corvairs. some with 3 hours,
some with 900 hours.
All were under $15000 and some down to $8500. I guess the economy has hit these
guys hard and these guys are trying to get out from under a hanger payment or
some such.
I may have some money for a Piet in several years. I hope these bargans are still
around.
Any thoughts?
Steve D
Just a lurker
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Date:
Apr 04, 2009
From:
helspersew(at)aol.com
I've planned it a couple of years, have all the charts, have
planned the stops close to other Piet folks or grass strips
with fuel nearby, all of that- but can't commit. I'd love to
go. My wife says "go for it"
Oscar,
Let me know when you will be arriving here at Poplar Grove. It is right on the
way, two grass strips,?40 mi. short of your goal and a great fuel stop so you
don't have to fill-up at Brodhead. As I remember, last year they didn't have fuel
there because of some problem with the pumps.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 04, 2009
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
Don't worry Pieters, he'll go. You've seen these types when they get the bug.
**************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
with TaxACT.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
fabric going on
From:
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date:
Apr 04, 2009
Well it seems like a long time since I hauled D.J.'s project home from Arizona.and
I guess it was 2 years ago-maybe even 3? but finally I have the fabric going
on the fuselage and it feels good.I am not sure how much more I'll get done
this summer because after this month I'm going back to work on a job that will
have me traveling all over Kansas and western Oklahoma and even as far as Beatrice
Nebraska. but if I can just get the fuselage painted and sitting on the
gear in the next 3 weeks plus-every time I get a chance to blot something on
it-it will be going on for good with the exception of having to take the wings
off to get it out of the shop after weight and balance.i figure easily another
year-but it's looking more like I'll outlive it after all.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237733#237733
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Fuselage Plywood
From:
"Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
Boulter Plywood - I went there and walked around inside the place. They have
a special section of mil spec aircraft grade plywood and their prices are very
good (at least they where when I bought my 1/8" Finnish Birch for gussets).
Steve,
Not sure if the shipping will eat away at your savings getting it locally or closer
to home though. I'd call them and have them give you a price shipped.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237811#237811
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Brodhead/Oshkosh 2009
From:
"Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
Since that's the plane you origninally built, we'd all like to see you there too,
Corky. Any chance of seeing you at Brodhead this year?
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237813#237813
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
Subject:
slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Corky Writes: We are waiting. Have you a nice hangar, transportation, dinner,
king bed, private bath and a big breakfast. Even a well stocked bar since I
can't drink anymore.
Isabelle and Corky
Corky,
Would that southern hospitality apply to me as well ? I know I'm a nawtherner
(but so is your bride...so...you did good in that regard) but mightent (new
word I made up)
you make an exception should I fly thru your locale ? You can tell your friends
and family that you're harboring me from the Confederate Soldiers.
Mikee
________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Hey Yank.
Just found today through geneoloy research that one of my ancestors Henry J
Moss was in the 18th La Volunteer Regiment, fought at Shiloh, Yellow Bayou,
Bayou Lafouche, Labadieville, Mansfield and Pleasant Hill AS a Private in
Company A. Still want to come?
We are tough die-hards down here BUT would roll out the carpet for you.
Corky and Isabelle
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
fabric going on
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
Raymond wrote-
>I figure easily another year-but it's looking more like I'll outlive it af
ter all.
That's funny... Doc Mosher reports in the most recent issue of the Brodhead
Pietenpol Association Newsletter (I just got mine yesterday) that Raymond
Hanover=2C N34RH=2C is flying his new Air Camper! Congratulations! Simila
rly=2C Doc reports that Jim Markle has sold his Ford-powered NX25JM to Jeff
Masessa of Rockaway=2C NJ.
What's going on here?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: fabric going on
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
Wow! Rockaway, that's like 5 mi from my house. I'll have to talk to him
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric going on
Raymond wrote-
>I figure easily another year-but it's looking more like I'll outlive
it after all.
That's funny... Doc Mosher reports in the most recent issue of the
Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter (I just got mine yesterday)
that Raymond Hanover, N34RH, is flying his new Air Camper!
Congratulations! Similarly, Doc reports that Jim Markle has sold his
Ford-powered NX25JM to Jeff Masessa of Rockaway, NJ.
What's going on here?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jim Markle" <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
Re: fabric going on
Date:
Apr 05, 2009
I forgot to renew the N25JM registration with the FAA....and some
character from NJ snapped "MY" 25JM right up. DRAT! And 899JM, my
second choice, is already registered...to a 737 somewhere. Very
disappointing. Oh well.
This afternoon when I put another coat of varnish on the jury struts and
a couple of 1/8" ply panel pieces....the rest of the Pietenpol was
sitting right there in the workshop... :-) But Doc got at least one
thing right, it's Ford powered. I finished up most of the fuel lines
and mounted the fuel valve last week and one end of that line definitely
goes to a Model A engine! I may just have to bolt that prop back on so
I can hear it come to life again.
I doubt that anything short of a "family need" would ever get this thing
out of my life....
Jim in Pryor
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fabric going on
Raymond wrote-
>I figure easily another year-but it's looking more like I'll outlive
it after all.
That's funny... Doc Mosher reports in the most recent issue of the
Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter (I just got mine yesterday)
that Raymond Hanover, N34RH, is flying his new Air Camper!
Congratulations! Similarly, Doc reports that Jim Markle has sold his
Ford-powered NX25JM to Jeff Masessa of Rockaway, NJ.
What's going on here?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding terrain
as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is 6,684'
above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so it rises
over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the Rockies is nearly
6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000' are truly "taller" than
the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density altitude is another matter
entirely.
Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites. Here's
typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year. At
about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots,
groundspeed.
Jack Phillips
Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to Brodhead.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Jack=3B what's the problem? I see two candidate landing sites at about you
r 2 o'clock position as mountaintop clearings. Set up best glide and get o
n with it! =3Bo)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Don't know if they knew each other but I'll bet your ass they recognized
each other's yell.
This geneology stuff is interesting. Yesterday I found out I was related to
Martha Washington through marriage and today I found a line linking me to
ole Georgie Patton through marriage. I must be a tough old fart
Corky
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkoshpossible
?
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Lots of broccoli
If you go into that , it'll just close in around you, won't even make a
hole.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkoshpossible ?
Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding
terrain as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is
6,684' above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so
it rises over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the
Rockies is nearly 6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000'
are truly "taller" than the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density
altitude is another matter entirely.
Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites.
Here's typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last
year. At about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27
knots, groundspeed.
Jack Phillips
Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to
Brodhead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
You just wait til get you
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Hell, I found out that Lady Godiva was my blood kin
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding
terrain as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is
6,684' above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so
it rises over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the
Rockies is nearly 6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000'
are truly "taller" than the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density
altitude is another matter entirely.
Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites.
Here's typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last
year. At about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27
knots, groundspeed.
Jack Phillips
Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to
Brodhead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
The shortest, softest looking one I could find.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner
Mason
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding terrain
as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is 6,684'
above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so it rises
over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the Rockies is nearly
6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000' are truly "taller" than
the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density altitude is another matter
entirely.
Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites. Here's
typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year. At
about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots,
groundspeed.
Jack Phillips
Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to Brodhead.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
gas tank float
From:
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a lot of
car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe I can check
out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel tank.any ideas
on which models might have the best size and shape to fit into the filler neck
and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod ?Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet.
CG is in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for
Brodhead but I am not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140
tomake the trip.. Cheers, Gardiner.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gardiner Mason
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding
terrain as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is
6,684' above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so
it rises over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the
Rockies is nearly 6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000'
are truly "taller" than the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density
altitude is another matter entirely.
Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites.
Here's typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last
year. At about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27
knots, groundspeed.
Jack Phillips
Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to
Brodhead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Holland
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to
Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
gas tank float
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
I'm useing a big cork that I bought at the local Ace hardware. That's what
the Aeronca that I fly has for a float and it works fine. Ed G
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
> From: rhano(at)att.net
> Date: Mon=2C 6 Apr 2009 17:36:15 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a l
ot of car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe I
can check out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel tan
k.any ideas on which models might have the best size and shape to fit into
the filler neck and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod ?Raymond
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Ex
plorer 8.
http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037
MSN55C0701A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Did you coat that cork with varnish or anything Ed?
rick
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Ed G. wrote:
> I'm useing a big cork that I bought at the local Ace hardware. That's what
> the Aeronca that I fly has for a float and it works fine. Ed G
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
> > From: rhano(at)att.net
> > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:36:15 -0700
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> > What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a
> lot of car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe I
> can check out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel
> tank.any ideas on which models might have the best size and shape to fit
> into the filler neck and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod
> ?Raymond
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
> Explorer 8. Download FREE now!<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
From:
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
I coated mine in epoxy.
>Did you coat that cork with varnish or anything Ed?
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject:
best place to buy turnbuckles
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase turnbuckles the
se days? Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
gas tank float
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Raymond=3B
On 41CC=2C Corky epoxied two large corks butt-to-butt on the end of the bra
ss rod that makes up the fuel level indicator right out in front of the pil
ot and passenger. These corks are larger than you used to see on a regular
Thermos bottle=2C about the size of what you'd use on a 5-gallon bottle of
water that Oasis or Ozarka used to deliver to your house for drinking wate
r. The two corks are epoxied onto the end of the rod and then liberally pa
inted with epoxy=2C and I mean liberally. The pair of corks float well in
avgas. You could substitute a brass ball like what is used in a toilet bal
lcock but that would be overkill and you couldn't fit it in through a stand
ard filler neck. Some folks have used ping-pong balls but those seem too f
ragile to me. Corks liberally coated with epoxy are pretty rugged and easy
to come by.
Corky "calibrated" the brass rod of the float indicator by filing notches i
n the rod at every gallon from "full" down to "unusable fuel only remaining
". When I had the fuel tank out while rebuilding the airplane after the no
se-over=2C I very carefully checked the calibration by adding one gallon of
water to the fuel tank at a time and Corky's calibration was about as prec
ise as this engineer could ever arrive at by computation=2C evaluation=2C m
icromanagement=2C extrapolation=2C or persuasion. In other words=2C it's a
s accurate as can be read while in flight in an open-cockpit airplane and p
lenty close enough. I painted the rod red from the final four gallons to t
he stop=2C and actually none of that last four gallons should be considered
usable for safe flight. I painted the rod yellow from 8 gallons to 4 gall
ons=2C as a caution that the airplane is in its final hour of safe=2C comfo
rtable VFR flight. The first 8 gallons below the yellow are completely usa
ble as two good hours of flight in which the pilot's rear end=2C sanity=2C
hearing=2C and good judgement are unimpaired and the airplane is willing an
d ready to go wherever it's pointed.
Your mileage may vary=2C but I'll bet it's not by much.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
I used a fishing rod handle made of cork, purchased from Bass Pro Shop. Any
fishing store should have something similar. It is probably roughly 1-1/8"
diameter and 2" tall.
It is coated in System Three T-88 epoxy, which has lasted several years with
no problems whatsoever, even in auto fuel. Most epoxys are not impervious
to ethanol though, so you should always test for ethanol. T-88 is
impervious to gasoline or AvGas.
I tried a brass rod first and it was too heavy...wouldn't float. I ordered
some 1/8" aluminum rod from Aircraft Spruce (after much searching for it
elsewhere), and it works great.
I drilled the aluminum rod just below and above the cork, then used my
smallest safety wire to lock the cork in place. A single strand ties the
bottom of the rod to the hole just above the cork, so even if the rod breaks
off at a hole, the rod will come out together. Using a single cotter pin on
top of the cork instead can cause unexpected loss of components in the fuel
tank. I spent the night in a stranger's house in Arkansas as a result of
that one time...
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
>
> What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a
> lot of car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe
> I can check out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel
> tank.any ideas on which models might have the best size and shape to fit
> into the filler neck and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod
> ?Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
From:
jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
I hope you foun these plase because I neede too. probably if you found a bo
neyard is de best but here in ca, is not to mouch were looking for
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:08 PM
#yiv917531085 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv917531085 {
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase turnbuckles the
se days?- Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
From:
jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
gas tank float
for piet tanks size the think now is a volkswagen, karmanghia or beatle the
y have almost the sam zise the tank I trate to put some electric uned like
old cars used I dont like a cork floets
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, Ed G. wrote:
From: Ed G. <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 7:13 PM
#yiv1615900122 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv1615900122 {
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
I'm useing a big cork that I bought at the local Ace hardware.-That's wha
t the Aeronca that I fly has for a float and it works fine.-- Ed G
-
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
> From: rhano(at)att.net
> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:36:15 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a l
ot of car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe I
can check out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel tan
k.any ideas on which models might have the best size and shape to fit into
the filler neck and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod ?Raymond
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Ex
plorer 8. Download FREE now!
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
In a message dated 4/6/2009 10:29:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
liberally. The pair of corks float well in avgas. You could substitute a
brass ball like what is used in a toilet ballcock but that would be overkill
and you couldn't fit it in through a standard filler neck. Some folks have
used ping-pong balls but those seem too fragile to me. Corks liberally coated
with epoxy are pretty rugged and easy to come by.
Oscar_ Excuse my butting in but I feel a correction is due. Those corks are
dipped in a solution of gas tank sealer, Hirsch Co..I used to build Model Ts
and early 4 cyl Dodge Bros cars and just happened to have a half of a can
remaining.
Corky
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 06, 2009
Subject:
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
From:
Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
This was taken over bryce canyon at about 10,000 feet. Route was Richfield
,
Utah, left turn at Panguitch Utah, and putting down in Page, Arizona.
BTW, I was freezing my butt off.
Next picture is getting the green light for takeoff at Flagstaff. They
asked what I was doing flying cross country without a radio. I told them I
was having the time of my life. Perhaps I was nuts, but it was true.
Andrew, NX7229R
Sahuarita AZ
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Gardiner Mason wrote
:
> Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet. C
G
> is in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for Brodhead bu
t I
> am not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140 tomake the trip..
> Cheers, Gardiner.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gardiner Mason
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkos
h
> possible ?
>
> Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jack Phillips
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkos
h
> possible ?
>
> Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding
> terrain as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is
> 6,684=92 above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595=92 MSL,
so it
> rises over 6,000=92 above its surroundings. The land around the Rockies
is
> nearly 6,000=92 MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000=92 are truly
> =93taller=94 than the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density altitud
e is
> another matter entirely.
>
>
> Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites. Here
=92s
> typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year. At
> about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots,
> groundspeed.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> Happy I don=92t have to get any higher than about 4500=92 to get to Brodh
ead.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick Holland
> *Sent:* Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkos
h
> possible ?
>
>
> 4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
>
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
*
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Subject:
Re: Pietenpol old slick mag capaacitors
Anybody know where I can find two capacitors for Slick 447 mags.? Part
number is 14-48A. I am trying to get a 85 cont. to run. Thanks Ken Conrad in
cold wet Iowa 563 528 9341 (cell) or 563 285 4073
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
Tim Verthein <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
From the Newswire at work this morning-Sorta OT
>From the newswire this morning:
Plane takes off without pilot
An aircraft took off on its own when the pilot could not get into the cockpit in
time after starting the propellor manually.
Hundreds of visitors to an air show at Goodwood airfield watched in horror as the
runaway biplane took off, soared into the air and then crashed into trees,
reports the Daily Telegraph.
Had it cleared the trees it is believed the plane, which was headed towards nearby
Chichester, West Sussex, could have flown for around 150 miles on a full tank
of fuel.
The small plane had just been refuelled before the incident and its pilots had
'swung' the propellers to restart the engine before getting inside to fly it.
But the aircraft - a 1940 model built in the style of a Tiger Moth - began moving
before the pilot had a chance to board it.
Retired aircraft engineer Malcolm Phillips, 67 of Emsworth, Hants, said: "There
were hundreds of people there watching as the plane ran amok, haring round in
circles.
"We didn't know which way it was going to go and it was worrying that it could
head towards the crowd, other planes or the clubhouse."
Mr Phillips added: "Normally the idea is that you swing the propellers and have
the handbrake on and chocks under the wheels. You also need to make sure the
throttle is only set at low revs.
"Something clearly went wrong and it jumped over the chocks - I suspect what might
have happened is that the throttle became loose."
Be careful out there!
Tim in Bovey
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
fuse covering/cable routing
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Good morning everyone!
Did you guys cover the fuselage under the horizontal stabilizer or leave it
open?
Seems open would be very nice, almost necessary for access, but would
certainly let water inside very easily.
Also...
Anybody have some good tricks for estimating where to cut the holes in the
covering for control cables to exit/enter?
Thanks,
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: fuse covering/cable routing
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Douwe,
Before I disassembled for covering, I taped some paper together onto the structure
where the cables exited and made "maps" where the exit points were. I have
no clue how it could be done after the fact.... maybe a laser (if its not painted
yet).
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
B & B Aircraft Supplies
202 N Center St
Gardner, KS 66030
(913) 884-5930
----- Original Message -----
From: jorge lizarraga
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
I hope you foun these plase because I neede too. probably if you
found a boneyard is de best but here in ca, is not to mouch were looking
for
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:08 PM
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase
turnbuckles these days? Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
best place to buy turnbuckles
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Hi Tom I have bought turnbuckles from B&B aircraft. They sell them by the
piece but if you give them the AN numbers from the ACS cataloge they will s
end you what you need. They are also not shiny new pieces like ACS's they s
eem to be new/old stock but perfectly fine hardware. I forget what the last
ones I bought for the drag wires in my wings cost but I'm thinking like 8
bucks a piece. They are also great people to work with. Ed G.
From: tmbrant(at)msn.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date: Mon=2C 6 Apr 2009 22:08:18 -0500
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase turnbuckles the
se days? Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_
Mobile1_042009
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Pietenpol old Slick mag capacitors
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Ken=3B you might try Arnold Kesselring=2C d/b/a "Arn-Air"=2C right there in
your state of Iowa. Contact info here:
Arn-Air
Attn Arnold Kesselring
PO Box 148
Bayard=2C IA 50029
USA
Phone: 712-651-2255
Fax: 712-651-2258
He made a new ignition harness for one of my mags and I believe he works on
older stuff so he should be able to help you.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
I bought all my turnbuckles at B&B aircraft sales in
I bought all my turn buckles at B&B aircraft sales in Gardner, KS. Much
cheaper than AS or Wicks. They deal in a lot of surplus. Phone no. is
913-884-5930 Jim
In a message dated 4/6/2009 11:38:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
flightwood(at)yahoo.com writes:
I hope you foun these plase because I neede too. probably if you found a
boneyard is de best but here in ca, is not to mouch were looking for
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:08 PM
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase turnbuckles
these days? Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Try this
http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=240075+01
Works for me
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
Sent: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 7:36 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a lot of
car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe I can check
out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel tank.any ideas on
which models might have the best size and shape to fit into the filler neck and
have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod ?Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
Does anyone have a list of all the turnbuckles and AN numbers needed to
build a piet ?
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
<catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Try B&B Supply, they usually have the best prices. Last number I have
for them is (913-884-5930). No website that I know of.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase
turnbuckles these days? Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: fuse covering/cable routing
Dowue, make a cardboard template to simulate the covering, and run the cabl
es with the tail installed and cut slits in the cardboard where needed.-
Simply lay the cardboard over the covering after it is installed and cut yo
ur cable exits.- One other trick I learded from the Old Man, was to make
an oversized-tear dropped shaped piece of fabric, and a smaller tear shap
ed piece of leather (for the cable exits) and sew the leather to the fabric
with rib lacing cord etc, then glue the fabric patch(with leather sewed on
)-to the fabric on the fuselage.- This will not peel off like so many o
f the glued on leather patches, the dacron sticks to dacron much, much bete
r than leather does.
-
Just some tricks to try,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: pilotless flights
You guys might remember a simmilar incident that happened here in Ohio abou
t 8-10 years ago.- A -7AC champ did something simmilar but no one was a
round it when it started (supposidly).- A guy flew to breakfast and the e
ngine quit while taxing to the ramp, well I guess the pushed it of the runw
ay and forgot to shut the mags off.- Then after-he walked away from the
airplane the engine kicked back due to a hot spot in the cylinder etc.-
The champ took off and flew- 100 miles or so untill the gas ran out, and
landed in a field in eastern ohio.- I remember listening in to CMH approa
ch on the base unit, at DLZ where I was the Line boy, and the state highway
patrol was folowing it in a helicopter untill the heli got low on fuel.-
The HW patrol heli was at 9000 ft when he turned back for fuel.- I guess
those 7 AC's fly like a champ, pilot or not.
-
I know this story sounds far fetched, but look it up if you do not believe
me! Airport was Urbana Grimes In Urbana Ohio, between 1997-2002 or so.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
pilotless flights
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
I remember that story and I can believe it. I fly a Champ and the only diff
icult thing about learning to fly it was getting it to stay down on the run
way when landing. they just want to keep flying. Ed
Date: Tue=2C 7 Apr 2009 09:12:04 -0700
From: aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: pilotless flights
You guys might remember a simmilar incident that happened here in Ohio abou
t 8-10 years ago. A 7AC champ did something simmilar but no one was aroun
d it when it started (supposidly). A guy flew to breakfast and the engine
quit while taxing to the ramp=2C well I guess the pushed it of the runway a
nd forgot to shut the mags off. Then after he walked away from the airplan
e the engine kicked back due to a hot spot in the cylinder etc. The champ
took off and flew 100 miles or so untill the gas ran out=2C and landed in
a field in eastern ohio. I remember listening in to CMH approach on the ba
se unit=2C at DLZ where I was the Line boy=2C and the state highway patrol
was folowing it in a helicopter untill the heli got low on fuel. The HW pa
trol heli was at 9000 ft when he turned back for fuel. I guess those 7 AC'
s fly like a champ=2C pilot or not.
I know this story sounds far fetched=2C but look it up if you do not believ
e me! Airport was Urbana Grimes In Urbana Ohio=2C between 1997-2002 or so.
Shad
_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail=AE: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_
Updates1_042009
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Brodhead
From:
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
My family and I have decided to make a family trip to Brodhead this summer. It
has been recommended by many that I attend, and I can see how the exposure would
be an enormous help to my project, not to mention what is sure to be some
good ol camaraderie. It is on the calendar and I've already requested the time
off.
That being said, can someone help us to plan accordingly? I mean, we are pretty
good planners, but we just don't know what to expect. We are planning to drive
up and tent camp and we plan to bring most of our normal camping gear, to
include food and the necessary equipment to prepare it, but we are unsure of other
accommodations, such as water, electricity, showers, restrooms, etc. We
are normally pretty flexible, but would prefer to pack/plan accordingly.
I've tried doing a search for "Brodhead", "Fly-In" and other key words... as you
can imagine, I received tons of posts that may or may not have been related
to the actual event. I've also looked at the Chapter 431 and BPA sites, but I've
been unable to gain much in the way of details... perhaps I overlooked the
information.
Any suggestions for us newbies?
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238174#238174
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Brodhead
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Mark:
Food at Brodhead is catered if you want it. I usually flyin with a tent,
sleeping bag, clothes and a camera. There are restaurants in Brodhead if
you don't want to eat on the field. There is usually so much going on at
the field, I hate to leave, unless I am goinh to dinner with friends.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Date: 4/7/2009 1:08:01 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
>
> My family and I have decided to make a family trip to Brodhead this
summer. It has been recommended by many that I attend, and I can see how
the exposure would be an enormous help to my project, not to mention what
is sure to be some good ol camaraderie. It is on the calendar and I've
already requested the time off.
>
> That being said, can someone help us to plan accordingly? I mean, we are
pretty good planners, but we just don't know what to expect. We are
planning to drive up and tent camp and we plan to bring most of our normal
camping gear, to include food and the necessary equipment to prepare it,
but we are unsure of other accommodations, such as water, electricity,
showers, restrooms, etc. We are normally pretty flexible, but would prefer
to pack/plan accordingly.
>
> I've tried doing a search for "Brodhead", "Fly-In" and other key words...
as you can imagine, I received tons of posts that may or may not have been
related to the actual event. I've also looked at the Chapter 431 and BPA
sites, but I've been unable to gain much in the way of details... perhaps I
overlooked the information.
>
> Any suggestions for us newbies?
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238174#238174
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
looking thru old pics
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
reaching for the ground
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
looking through old pics
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Walt=3B I wanna go fly!!! What a clean airplane you have.
What's that little box thingie that you have zip-tied to the port side caba
ne brace strut?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
DarmahBoy(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Subject:
=?UTF-8?Q?Check out Tailspin's Tales: =A2 Bird ?= =?UTF-8?Q?In
I have an old Panasonic camcorder that I put in there to archive all the
flights.
Then put them on Youtube.
Keyword Pietenpol
What a concept,,,,hahahahahaha
PS with my friend don
and with my other friend don
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking through old pics
Walt; I wanna go fly!!! What a clean airplane you have.
What's that little box thingie that you have zip-tied to the port side
cabane brace strut?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Friend of mine gave me a gift of a fuel tank float for two of my projects.
First a FFP 404 and secondly for my Piet which I fly now.
I emailed him tonight.
Here is his response.
Walt,
Yes. 1/16" SS rod.
The best epoxy is called, "JB Weld"
It is basically gasoline proof and seals the two 1/16" holes you have to
drill in the ping pong ball.
JB Weld is sold at most auto parts stores...NAPA for instance also Advance
Auto.
I also made some with TWO balls on one rod to get more buoyancy. But if you
keep the SS rod thin and not to long it will float on one ball.
Cook
It works beautifully.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 8:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
>
> What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a
> lot of car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe
> I can check out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel
> tank.any ideas on which models might have the best size and shape to fit
> into the filler neck and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod
> ?Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
My float is like Corky's. My rod is Stainless steel welding rod. The
tank holds 12.6 gallons. The tank is just behind the firewall. I put 4
gallons of gas in the tank, put in the float and cap and then bent the
rod at the top. The rod goes thru a small tube brazed in the cap. The
bend hits the cap when there is still 4 gallons left, ~ 1 hour of flying
if throttled back. My engine is the 65 Continental. My gas gage is a
calibrated paint stirring stick--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:27 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
Raymond;
On 41CC, Corky epoxied two large corks butt-to-butt on the end of the
brass rod that makes up the fuel level indicator right out in front of
the pilot and passenger. These corks are larger than you used to see on
a regular Thermos bottle, about the size of what you'd use on a 5-gallon
bottle of water that Oasis or Ozarka used to deliver to your house for
drinking water. The two corks are epoxied onto the end of the rod and
then liberally painted with epoxy, and I mean liberally. The pair of
corks float well in avgas. You could substitute a brass ball like what
is used in a toilet ballcock but that would be overkill and you couldn't
fit it in through a standard filler neck. Some folks have used
ping-pong balls but those seem too fragile to me. Corks liberally
coated with epoxy are pretty rugged and easy to come by.
Corky "calibrated" the brass rod of the float indicator by filing
notches in the rod at every gallon from "full" down to "unusable fuel
only remaining". When I had the fuel tank out while rebuilding the
airplane after the nose-over, I very carefully checked the calibration
by adding one gallon of water to the fuel tank at a time and Corky's
calibration was about as precise as this engineer could ever arrive at
by computation, evaluation, micromanagement, extrapolation, or
persuasion. In other words, it's as accurate as can be read while in
flight in an open-cockpit airplane and plenty close enough. I painted
the rod red from the final four gallons to the stop, and actually none
of that last four gallons should be considered usable for safe flight.
I painted the rod yellow from 8 gallons to 4 gallons, as a caution that
the airplane is in its final hour of safe, comfortable VFR flight. The
first 8 gallons below the yellow are completely usable as two good hours
of flight in which the pilot's rear end, sanity, hearing, and good
judgement are unimpaired and the airplane is willing and ready to go
wherever it's pointed.
Your mileage may vary, but I'll bet it's not by much.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/09 18:59:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
The Floats in my 1948 V tail Bonanza are varnished Cork. They have worked well
for 8 years. In a mix of Car gas and Av Gas.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 20:57
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
> My float is like Corky's. My rod is Stainless steel welding rod.
> The tank holds 12.6 gallons. The tank is just behind the firewall.
> I put 4 gallons of gas in the tank, put in the float and cap and
> then bent the rod at the top. The rod goes thru a small tube
> brazed in the cap. The bend hits the cap when there is still 4
> gallons left, ~ 1 hour of flying if throttled back. My engine is
> the 65 Continental. My gas gage is a calibrated paint stirring
> stick--Jim Lagowski
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> To: Pietenpol List
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:27 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
>
>
> Raymond;
>
> On 41CC, Corky epoxied two large corks butt-to-butt on the end
> of the brass rod that makes up the fuel level indicator right out
> in front of the pilot and passenger. These corks are larger than
> you used to see on a regular Thermos bottle, about the size of
> what you'd use on a 5-gallon bottle of water that Oasis or Ozarka
> used to deliver to your house for drinking water. The two corks
> are epoxied onto the end of the rod and then liberally painted
> with epoxy, and I mean liberally. The pair of corks float well in
> avgas. You could substitute a brass ball like what is used in a
> toilet ballcock but that would be overkill and you couldn't fit it
> in through a standard filler neck. Some folks have used ping-pong
> balls but those seem too fragile to me. Corks liberally coated
> with epoxy are pretty rugged and easy to come by.
>
> Corky "calibrated" the brass rod of the float indicator by
> filing notches in the rod at every gallon from "full" down to
> "unusable fuel only remaining". When I had the fuel tank out
> while rebuilding the airplane after the nose-over, I very
> carefully checked the calibration by adding one gallon of water to
> the fuel tank at a time and Corky's calibration was about as
> precise as this engineer could ever arrive at by computation,
> evaluation, micromanagement, extrapolation, or persuasion. In
> other words, it's as accurate as can be read while in flight in an
> open-cockpit airplane and plenty close enough. I painted the rod
> red from the final four gallons to the stop, and actually none of
> that last four gallons should be considered usable for safe
> flight. I painted the rod yellow from 8 gallons to 4 gallons, as
> a caution that the airplane is in its final hour of safe,
> comfortable VFR flight. The first 8 gallons below the yellow are
> completely usable as two good hours of flight in which the pilot's
> rear end, sanity, hearing, and good judgement are unimpaired and
> the airplane is willing and ready to go wherever it's pointed.
>
> Your mileage may vary, but I'll bet it's not by much.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 04/06/09 18:59:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject:
Re: Brodhead
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Mark
There is camping right next to the activity area in the grass parking area.
There are showers with sometimes hot water and sometimes a line to get in.
There is a breakfast on Sat and dinners on Fri and Sat night. Brodhead is a
small town, but has a few good restaurants and a grocery store. There s a
McDonalds and Subway in walking distance. There is also a hardware store in
town.
You can bring a BBQ There is fresh water on site and both portapottys and
indoor. There is no electricity in the camping area but there is a pavilion
with picnic tables.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 1:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
> My family and I have decided to make a family trip to Brodhead this
> summer. It has been recommended by many that I attend, and I can see how
> the exposure would be an enormous help to my project, not to mention what
> is sure to be some good ol camaraderie. It is on the calendar and I've
> already requested the time off.
>
> That being said, can someone help us to plan accordingly? I mean, we are
> pretty good planners, but we just don't know what to expect. We are
> planning to drive up and tent camp and we plan to bring most of our normal
> camping gear, to include food and the necessary equipment to prepare it,
> but we are unsure of other accommodations, such as water, electricity,
> showers, restrooms, etc. We are normally pretty flexible, but would
> prefer to pack/plan accordingly.
>
> I've tried doing a search for "Brodhead", "Fly-In" and other key words...
> as you can imagine, I received tons of posts that may or may not have been
> related to the actual event. I've also looked at the Chapter 431 and BPA
> sites, but I've been unable to gain much in the way of details... perhaps
> I overlooked the information.
>
> Any suggestions for us newbies?
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238174#238174
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Brodhead
From:
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Thanks fellas, that tells me enough to know that the necessities are covered.
We'll stay tuned to the boards to learn more.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238257#238257
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Brodhead
From:
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 08, 2009
Having been twice now the first time I had no idea of what to expect, and again
the following year I knew what to expect it was a mix of many things I loved,
people I met and there were many things missing.
It was Perfect and I can't wait to see you all and do it all over again in just
3 months.
It just keeps getting better each time I go! Last year I brought a buddy non pilot
but great wood worker and Piet project contributor. Back in December I re
invited him, it didn't take long for him to decide. We'll see ya'll in July!
John
------Original Message------
From: Dick N.
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Apr 7, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
Mark
There is camping right next to the activity area in the grass parking area.
There are showers with sometimes hot water and sometimes a line to get in.
There is a breakfast on Sat and dinners on Fri and Sat night. Brodhead is a
small town, but has a few good restaurants and a grocery store. There s a
McDonalds and Subway in walking distance. There is also a hardware store in
town.
You can bring a BBQ There is fresh water on site and both portapottys and
indoor. There is no electricity in the camping area but there is a pavilion
with picnic tables.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 1:04 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
>
> My family and I have decided to make a family trip to Brodhead this
> summer. It has been recommended by many that I attend, and I can see how
> the exposure would be an enormous help to my project, not to mention what
> is sure to be some good ol camaraderie. It is on the calendar and I've
> already requested the time off.
>
> That being said, can someone help us to plan accordingly? I mean, we are
> pretty good planners, but we just don't know what to expect. We are
> planning to drive up and tent camp and we plan to bring most of our normal
> camping gear, to include food and the necessary equipment to prepare it,
> but we are unsure of other accommodations, such as water, electricity,
> showers, restrooms, etc. We are normally pretty flexible, but would
> prefer to pack/plan accordingly.
>
> I've tried doing a search for "Brodhead", "Fly-In" and other key words...
> as you can imagine, I received tons of posts that may or may not have been
> related to the actual event. I've also looked at the Chapter 431 and BPA
> sites, but I've been unable to gain much in the way of details... perhaps
> I overlooked the information.
>
> Any suggestions for us newbies?
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238174#238174
>
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
hello there diacording from pietenpol book sale by don pietenpol granson, p
g, 48. you ned for wing8-325 sf turnbuckles and pin.-24 bolt and nut of cor
rect size. strut material-=10 325 sf turnbuckles.-10 clevis and pin -16 b
olt and nuts,for wood landingear ned 4 326 sf turnbuckles. also I have alis
t what i used for my fuselaje and wing if you like to now seyou nex
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote:
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 6:12 AM
Does anyone have a list of all the turnbuckles and-AN numbers needed to b
uild a piet ?
-
John
A Good Credit Score is 700 o17385/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditrepo
rt.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterN
O62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
From:
jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
tanks for sendmy you inform you helmy alot andsave alot$$$$$ tanks jorge
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, gcardinal wrote:
From: gcardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 4:34 AM
-
B & B Aircraft Supplies
202 N Center St
Gardner, KS 66030
(913) 884-5930
----- Original Message -----
From: jorge lizarraga
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
I hope you foun these plase because I neede too. probably if you found a bo
neyard is de best but here in ca, is not to mouch were looking for
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:08 PM
#yiv1305058386 #yiv917531085 .hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TO
P:0px;}
#yiv1305058386 #yiv917531085 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;}
Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase turnbuckles the
se days?- Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
Tom B.
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Brodhead
From:
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date:
Apr 07, 2009
Just received my first issue of BPA News today... reading it cover to cover provided
several more answers. Looking forward to July already.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238268#238268
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: From the Newswire at work this morning-Sorta OT
Date:
Apr 08, 2009
I just opened my latest Sport Aviation. In it is an article
about a diy starter for C-65's and 85's. It uses a Dewalt
cordless drill and apparently works quite well.
Something to think about with all these horror stories.
Also around here you have to have a second person
lined up ahead of time to prop for you at flyins as they
won't let you do it on your lonesome.
Clif
I was always taught to respect my elders,
But it keeps getting harder to find one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Verthein" <minoxphotographer(at)yahoo.com>
>
>
> Plane takes off without pilot
>
> An aircraft took off on its own when the pilot could not get into the
> cockpit in time after starting the propellor manually.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
80th Anniversary OSH Fly-in update
Date:
Apr 08, 2009
Here is an update on the 80th anniversary fly-in.
Bill Rewey stopped at Waupun, WI (WI07) to investigate it as a potential
stopover point. This airport is conveniently located for pilots flying
the FISK arrival.
It is a private airfield with a N-S paved runway and an E-W grass runway
located about 15 miles south of Ripon.
The owner is eager to have us stop there on our way to OSH.
www.runwayfinder.com is a good site with active sectionals that can be
used for flight planning.
Here is the form for preordering the 2009 Oshkosh NOTAM:
https://secure.eaa.org/airventure/notam_request.html
Please order and study it.
Greg Cardinal
gcardinal(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible
?
Date:
Apr 08, 2009
Congratulations, Gardiner for finishing the Piet and for finally getting
Matronics to accept your posts.
You've got three months to fly off the time on your Piet and have it ready
for Brodhead - should be plenty of time. Hope to see it (and you) there.
Jack
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner
Mason
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet. CG is
in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for Brodhead but I am
not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140 tomake the trip.. Cheers,
Gardiner.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gardiner <mailto:airlion(at)bellsouth.net> Mason
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding terrain
as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is 6,684'
above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so it rises
over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the Rockies is nearly
6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000' are truly "taller" than
the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density altitude is another matter
entirely.
Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites. Here's
typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year. At
about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots,
groundspeed.
Jack Phillips
Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to Brodhead.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
possible ?
4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date:
Apr 08, 2009
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
Jorge, your name is obviously Spainish. Where are you?
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 23:45
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
> tanks for sendmy you inform you helmy alot andsave alot$$$$$ tanks
> jorge
> --- On Tue, 4/7/09, gcardinal < wrote:
>
> From: gcardinal <
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 4:34 AM
>
>
>
>
> B & B Aircraft Supplies
> 202 N Center St
> Gardner, KS 66030
> (913) 884-5930
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jorge lizarraga
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
>
>
>
>
>
> I hope you foun these plase because I neede too. probably if you found a boneyard
is de best but here in ca, is not to mouch were looking for
>
> --- On Mon, 4/6/09, TOM MICHELLE BRANT < wrote:
>
> From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: best place to buy turnbuckles
> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" <
> Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 8:08 PM
>
>
>
> #yiv1305058386 #yiv917531085 .hmmessage P {
> PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;}
> #yiv1305058386 #yiv917531085 {
> FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;}
>
> Any thoughts on the best (as in cheapest) place to purchase turnbuckles these
days? Aircraft Spruce is around $28/unit as is Wicks.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
> " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: best place to buy turnbuckles
From:
"carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date:
Apr 08, 2009
I spoke to Dan the other day and he only has fork ends at the moment and the long
turnbuckles
Would it be ok to use the fork end in place of the cable eye and are others using
the long or short?
They wont post overseas so I need to order all that I need in one go
Dan is a very nice fellow I think the 1/2 hour on the phone chatting would have
cost about as much as 1 turnbuckle.
He also said he would be at OSH.
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238377#238377
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
Subject:
Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
Anniversary OSH Fly-in update
www.runwayfinder.com<http://www.runwayfinder.com> is a good site with activ
e sectionals that can be used for flight planning.
GREAT web site Greg ! Did any of you guys try this ?? You can zoom in
, drag around the entire United States just like you would a Google Map.
I will checkout Wapun as a possible stop from Brodhead to Oshkosh.
Is anyone thinking of simply flying nonstop from Brodhead to OSH via the FI
SK approach ? That is my thought as winds are notoriously calmer in the m
orning hours but...it is what it is when you get there.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject:
Re: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
Anniversary OSH Fly-in update
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
Mikee,
I have used skyvector.com in the past for mapping. It works well,
especially with Firefox, to plan routes and get weather.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Apr 9, 2009, at 12:49 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> www.runwayfinder.com is a good site with active sectionals that can
> be used for flight planning.
>
> GREAT web site Greg ! Did any of you guys try this ?? You can
> zoom in, drag around the entire United States just like you would a
> Google Map. I will checkout Wapun as a possible stop from Brodhead
> to Oshkosh.
>
> Is anyone thinking of simply flying nonstop from Brodhead to OSH via
> the FISK approach ? That is my thought as winds are notoriously
> calmer in the morning hours but=85it is what it is when you get there.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
Subject:
Re: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
Ann...
now you have a partner son
**************New Deals on Dell Netbooks =93 Now starting at $299 (A
edir=http:%2F
%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213771973%3B35379628%3Bw)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
Mikee wrote-
>Is anyone thinking of simply flying nonstop from Brodhead to OSH via the
FISK approach ?
No=2C but I thought about flying nonstop from San Geronimo (8T8) to Brodhea
d (C37) via direct. It's only 1=2C044 statute and I figure I can make it w
ith 75 gallons and that includes a 25% reserve. Since I already have a 16
gal. tank=2C I only need to find room for 59 milk jugs filled with avgas=2C
for another 354 lbs.
Hmmm... I'd better plug that into the W&B spreadsheet.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
WOW! Are all those milk jugs interconnected with each having their own valv
e shut off going to the main tank and if so how do you turn each one on as
you go or do you have the valves all back in the rear cockpit to control fr
om there?Is there a fuel pump there to pump the gas to the main?Do you have
a spare jug in reserve for wee,wees along the way?How do you control the j
ugs from colapsing as the fuel is taken out or does that matter?Do you hang
them from the center section wing or are they down on the floor?I gotta kn
ow how you do this!!!!!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: Oscar Zuniga =0ATo: Pietenpol List =0ASent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 4:28:55 PM=0ASubject: Pie
tenpol-List: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th=0A=0AMikee
wrote-=0A-=0A>Is anyone thinking of simply flying nonstop from Brodhead
to OSH via the=0AFISK approach ?=0A-=0ANo, but I thought about flying non
stop from San Geronimo (8T8) to Brodhead (C37) via direct.- It's only 1,0
44 statute and I figure I can make it with 75 gallons and that includes a 2
5% reserve.- Since I already have a 16 gal. tank, I only need to find roo
m for 59 milk jugs filled with avgas, for another 354 lbs.=0A-=0AHmmm...
I'd better plug that into the W&B spreadsheet.-=0A-=0AOscar Zuniga=0AAi
r Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com=0Awebsite
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
Annive
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
Hey Mike,
I'd be interested in leaving at sunrise Sunday morning and flying direct to OSH.
Gotta love that smooth morning air. It'd be fun to fly all that way with a
few others. It makes the flight seem shorter and more fun when I have to spend
time focusing on the guy I'm flying formation with. Looking forward to it!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238558#238558
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal ! 80th
Anniversary OSH Fly-in update
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
What I like about Runwayfinder.com is the ability to enter airport
identifiers and it will draw a course line complete with distances. Very
nice for flight planning.
Brodhead - direct - Oshkosh is good if you have a radio. Those of us
doing the nordo thing will have to make a stop.
Waupun is very convenient for both the Fisk arrival and the ultralight
arrival. Hopefully we can all get into OSH before any significant wind
kicks up.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Runway Finder-- GREAT web site Greg Cardinal
! 80th Anniversary OSH Fly-in update
www.runwayfinder.com is a good site with active sectionals that can be
used for flight planning.
GREAT web site Greg ! Did any of you guys try this ?? You can
zoom in, drag around the entire United States just like you would a
Google Map. I will checkout Wapun as a possible stop from Brodhead to
Oshkosh.
Is anyone thinking of simply flying nonstop from Brodhead to OSH via
the FISK approach ? That is my thought as winds are notoriously calmer
in the morning hours but.it is what it is when you get there.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
I can tell you not to overly coat your cork with silicon caulk or the like, for
a cork so coated can float in water, but not in gasoline (lower specific gravity).
This is based on empirical data.
Now for Plan B.......... Does anyone know if ethanol or gasoline will eat up the
coating on a cork, if the coating is either West Marine epoxy or West Marine
epoxy varnish? Your answer is based on... Chemistry? Mfr. specs.? Tests?
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
>Sent: Apr 9, 2009 9:41 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
>
>That's what I used;went to a wine making store for the cork and used a coat hanger.Works
fine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 09, 2009
NOT alcohol! That is the solvent for shellac.
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
the corks were originally coated with many coats of good old-fashioned
shellac, which seems to be impervious to all fuels and additives.
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
gas tank float
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
Friend of mine made me 2 float assy over the years , at different times,
for my two projects.
They've worked flawlessly. And very simple.
Below is his discription.
<<<<<<<<<<<
Walt,
Yes. 1/16" SS rod.
The best epoxy is called, "JB Weld"
It is basically gasoline proof and seals the two 1/16" holes you have to
drill in the ping pong ball.
JB Weld is sold at most auto parts stores...NAPA for instance also
Advance Auto.
I also made some with TWO balls on one rod to get more buoyancy. But if
you keep the SS rod thin and not too long it will float on one ball.
Cook.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
use 1/16" rod from the welding store as the rod.
then I found an old ball point pen that had the brass ink tube, cut and
cleaned that and soldered it into a hole drilled in the fuel cap.
Works absolutely flawlessly!! ( or buy the tube at the hobby store)
You can either drop it to the bottom,cut the rod 1/2" from the top of
tube, and bend it over,,,,,,,,Or set it higher to make a built in
reserve
walt evans
NX140DL
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
From:
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
That's right,they are using enthonal in the gas which will eat that shallac
.I think I coat it in JB weld as that other gentleman wrote when I get back
down to the field.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:
Clif Dawson =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent
: Friday, April 10, 2009 1:18:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank
float=0A=0A=0ANOT alcohol! That is the solvent for shellac.=0A-=0Ahttp:/
/antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm=0A-=0AClif=0ASubject: Re:
Pietenpol-List: gas tank float=0A=0Athe corks were originally coated with
many coats of good old-fashioned shellac, which seems to be impervious to a
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dennis Engelkenjohn" <wingding(at)usmo.com>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
TEAM Aircraft used to recommend bending a wire like is used to dip out
colored easter eggs and glue a ping pong ball to it with T-88 to make a
float. Alcohol dissolves the T-88 though. I tried it on my minimax.
dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Of course in the old days they didn't use 25% of the countries corn crops to
put Ethanol in car gasoline. Don't know how shellac would handle that.
Rick
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> I've seen a million good responses on here but wanted to throw in one
> that has been missed . . . in the old days, the corks were originally coated
> with many coats of good old-fashioned shellac, which seems to be impervious
> to all fuels and additives.
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 06, 2009 10:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
>
> Did you coat that cork with varnish or anything Ed?
>
> rick
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Ed G. wrote:
>
>> I'm useing a big cork that I bought at the local Ace hardware. That's what
>> the Aeronca that I fly has for a float and it works fine. Ed G
>>
>> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
>> > From: rhano(at)att.net
>> > Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:36:15 -0700
>> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > What are you using for a float in your tanks? I guess there are still a
>> lot of car gas tanks that use brass floats on their gage senders and maybe I
>> can check out a friends junkyard and find a good one to use in my fuel
>> tank.any ideas on which models might have the best size and shape to fit
>> into the filler neck and have enough buoyancy to raise the brass rod
>> ?Raymond
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238067#238067
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet
>> Explorer 8. Download FREE now!<http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A>
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> *
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
Subject:
looking for a wingman Don ?
So Don, you are planning the same Brodhead-direct-Oshkosh flight too ? If I can
get my butt out of the tent early enough and packed and the weather is favorable,
I wouldn't mind tagging along with anyone else who might be, like yourself,
thinking of doing that.
I flew loose formation with Jack Phillips from Cleveland to Brodhead in 2005 and
you're right-- it does make the time go much faster and except for driving Jack
nuts with my incessant chatter over the air-to-air frequency we both had the
time of our lives.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
Subject:
flying into Oshkosh
I did notice in the BPAN newsletter (thank you Doc and Dee) that EAA is all
owing us to land on the ultralight grass runway IF we have a tailskid. Th
at's very cool. And then you can get towed to the parking area by the Hom
ebuilt HQ.
So Don E., will you be flying with a radio via the FISK approach or going N
ORDO from Brodhead to OSH ? I will have my Icom handheld to communicate (
I should say listen) to FISK and the tower at OSH.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: flying into Oshkosh
From:
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
Hey Mike C,
I haven't studied up on it too much but I would like to try the Brodhead to Oshkosh
direct idea. Most of my cross-country planning seems to be planned a few
minutes before the flight. Draw a line and go. Not really the best idea I suppose.
So I do need to get some time to look over the arrival procedures. I'm
a NORDO. So if I feel the urge to get chatty it usually has to be with myself.
I can yell pretty loud but I usually have to communicate with my wingman
by hand signals. In '07 there were several of us flying together on our way
to Brodhead, I think at one point there were actually 9 airplanes. None had
radios. We seemed to communicate ok, no real problems. Anyway, the gas range
for Brodhead to OSH isn't a problem for me, the butt range is somewhat though.
If I can do a NORDO arrival direct from Brodhead I will but I don't know if
I can do that from that far out.
Ya know, it's only a little over 3 months away!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238659#238659
________________________________________________________________________________
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date:
Apr 10, 2009
Subject:
NORDO into OSH
I do believe to be NORDO you need to call the tower from an airport where you are
30 minutes from Wittman Field so calling from Brodhead for a NORDO clearance
wouldn't work. To be 30 minutes (or whatever the real number is in the NOTAM)
from Wittman Field you have to be at Fon Du Lac with a strong tailwind in a Pietenpol:))))
NORDO can sometimes work to your advantage if you want to land on a different runway
that whatever the tower is assigning at OSH. It seems over the years they
like
to use the E-W runways for the radio approaches (wind permitting) and the N-S for
the NORDO guys like we did 10 years ago when they use 36 and the 36 taxiway
as a parallel
36R/18L. If the wind is howling out of the south and they are landing tower airplanes
to the east and NORDO's to the south.....I'm going in NORDO !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: Another Flying Circus picture
Date:
Apr 11, 2009
No such saying out there like "just follow the ridge"
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another Flying Circus picture
>
> Illinois had to be a barnstormers paradise. All those long beautiful
> fields...
>
> Don, again
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238676#238676
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/illinois_barnstorming_212.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 11, 2009
Subject:
Split axle gear axle attach method
From:
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Good morning all,
I have a question about the method others have used to attach a "Cessna
style" axle to the axle end of their split-axle gear. We are in the process
of getting our vees welded up, so I want to make sure what we are looking at
doing sounds correct.
We are using 6.00x6 wheels and tires. I found a used set from a wind damaged
150 on Barnstormers for a decent price, and they should be winding their way
through the USPS as I speak. They come with axles; if the axles are
serviceable I will use them, if not I will probably pick up a set of Grove
axles:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/grove60x6.php
It would appear to me that one of the methods used to provide an attach
point for these axles is to weld a circular plate to the gear end, and then
bolt the axle to that plate. For reference here's a link to a shot of Bill
Rewey's gear from WestCoastPiet:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/IMG_0393.JPG
A pic of Tim Mickel's gear appears to show a similar setup, although it's
not quite as clear:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Tim%20Mickel/DSCF0157.JPG
Does that sound like a good method for providing an attach point for the
axles? If so, does anyone have a recommendation for the steel thickness we
should fab the mounting plate out of?
Thanks, and have a Happy Easter!
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject:
Model A Piet sale / trade / ?
Date:
Apr 11, 2009
Gentleman:
I have decided to upgrade to a little more power and a smoother engine.
The Model A engine is a great engine and runs great but by its design
there is a vibration that I feel uncomfortable with, mainly because I
fly helicopters for a living and any vibs are a no no.
So I will be entertaining offers for NX920Y aircamper built by Don Hicks
in 2004, The engine has 50+ hours todate and the air-frame is 19+ hour.
I flew the airplane today and it was great. I do not wish to take the
aircraft apart to re-engine the aircraft. Don built as close as possible
to the original plans Pietenpol, and I would love to see the aircraft
stay in tack as it was built.
If I'm unable to sell the aircraft as a unit I would like to sell the
engine, firewall forward to include the mount, prop, radiator and tack,
plus cowling. I plan to replace the Model A with a Corvair engine. Or if
I find a buyer I will purchase someone else's project and complete it
with the Corvair engine.
So I am advertising the aircraft local for $13,500.00
Make offers / trades / ????
You can call me at 573-645-0534
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Another Flying Circus picture
From:
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
Unless you're landing Williamsport talking to the tower and looking for the airport.
Those are the tower instructions
John
------Original Message------
From: walt
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Apr 11, 2009 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another Flying Circus picture
No such saying out there like "just follow the ridge"
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another Flying Circus picture
>
> Illinois had to be a barnstormers paradise. All those long beautiful
> fields...
>
> Don, again
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238676#238676
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/illinois_barnstorming_212.jpg
>
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
Subject:
Re: Split axle gear axle attach method
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Hello Ryan
Attached some pictures of how I did mine. I used Matco axles/brakes/wheels.
Matco recommended 1/4" thick steel for the mount plates. Looking at the
pictures you attached its hard to tell if bolt on axles were used or just a
single piece of tubing with a collar welded on for brake attachment. Since I
have not yet flown I cannot say my design is a proven one.
Rick
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Good morning all,
>
> I have a question about the method others have used to attach a "Cessna
> style" axle to the axle end of their split-axle gear. We are in the process
> of getting our vees welded up, so I want to make sure what we are looking at
> doing sounds correct.H
>
> We are using 6.00x6 wheels and tires. I found a used set from a wind
> damaged 150 on Barnstormers for a decent price, and they should be winding
> their way through the USPS as I speak. They come with axles; if the axles
> are serviceable I will use them, if not I will probably pick up a set of
> Grove axles:
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/grove60x6.php
>
> It would appear to me that one of the methods used to provide an attach
> point for these axles is to weld a circular plate to the gear end, and then
> bolt the axle to that plate. For reference here's a link to a shot of Bill
> Rewey's gear from WestCoastPiet:
>
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/IMG_0393.JPG
>
> A pic of Tim Mickel's gear appears to show a similar setup, although it's
> not quite as clear:
>
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Tim%20Mickel/DSCF0157.JPG
>
> Does that sound like a good method for providing an attach point for the
> axles? If so, does anyone have a recommendation for the steel thickness we
> should fab the mounting plate out of?
>
> Thanks, and have a Happy Easter!
>
> Ryan
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
From:
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Walt
I have a steel fuel cap from ACS. You can solder brass tubing to steel using
lead/tin solder?
Rick
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 3:32 AM, walt wrote:
> Friend of mine made me 2 float assy over the years , at different times,
> for my two projects.
> They've worked flawlessly. And very simple.
> Below is his discription.
>
> <<<<<<<<<<<
> Walt,
>
> Yes. 1/16" SS rod.
>
> The best epoxy is called, "JB Weld"
>
> It is basically gasoline proof and seals the two 1/16" holes you have to
> drill in the ping pong ball.
>
> JB Weld is sold at most auto parts stores...NAPA for instance also Advance
> Auto.
>
> I also made some with TWO balls on one rod to get more buoyancy. But if
> you keep the SS rod thin and not too long it will float on one ball.
>
>
> Cook.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> use 1/16" rod from the welding store as the rod.
> then I found an old ball point pen that had the brass ink tube, cut and
> cleaned that and soldered it into a hole drilled in the fuel cap.
> Works absolutely flawlessly!! ( or buy the tube at the hobby store)
> You can either drop it to the bottom,cut the rod 1/2" from the top of
> tube, and bend it over,,,,,,,,Or set it higher to make a built in reserve
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
Yes, steel solders beautifully. Just remember that if using a propane
torch, the cap takes alot longer to come up to temp,,,so you don't
discolor the brass tube and make it unsolderable.
Goes without saying to pop out the rubber gasket from the gas cap first.
Just clean everthing up shiney, coat all with solder paste.
PS, I used the same cap as you.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gas tank float
Walt
I have a steel fuel cap from ACS. You can solder brass tubing to steel
using lead/tin solder?
Rick
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 3:32 AM, walt wrote:
Friend of mine made me 2 float assy over the years , at different
times, for my two projects.
They've worked flawlessly. And very simple.
Below is his discription.
<<<<<<<<<<<
Walt,
Yes. 1/16" SS rod.
The best epoxy is called, "JB Weld"
It is basically gasoline proof and seals the two 1/16" holes you
have to drill in the ping pong ball.
JB Weld is sold at most auto parts stores...NAPA for instance also
Advance Auto.
I also made some with TWO balls on one rod to get more buoyancy.
But if you keep the SS rod thin and not too long it will float on one
ball.
Cook.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
use 1/16" rod from the welding store as the rod.
then I found an old ball point pen that had the brass ink tube, cut
and cleaned that and soldered it into a hole drilled in the fuel cap.
Works absolutely flawlessly!! ( or buy the tube at the hobby store)
You can either drop it to the bottom,cut the rod 1/2" from the top
of tube, and bend it over,,,,,,,,Or set it higher to make a built in
reserve
walt evans
NX140DL
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
A guy could probably get creative and make this thing work. Just have to come
up with a way to attach a Stainless Steel welding rod through the bore of it.
I suppose you could solder a thin piece top and bottom and run the rod through
it and solder.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=7215711&PMT4NO=61847625
I used a big fat magic marker body for mine. I pulled all of the ink soaked felt
out of it, turned up a small fitting on the lathe for the end of it, drilled
and tapped it for my 3/32" threaded welding rod and then welded that onto the
marker body. Just some ideas.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238819#238819
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Straight axel again
From:
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
I have a gear mock up now built.
Would anyone mind sending me pics of their axel to gear mounting in detail of the
traditional system in addition to any non bungee designs
Thanks
Happy holiday
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Re: Straight axel again
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
John, I used Fly Baby gear which has no bungees and a single axle, wire
braced. Fat, low pressure tires are the Shock absorber. I did so because of
Kyle Bradford in Eaton Rapids Mich. who used the same on his many year old
Piet. When I looked at his plane I liked the simplicity of it and copied it.
He sent me a copy of a Pete Bowers article which shows how to build the
gear. Bowers is/was Mr. Flybaby. I'll send you (or others) a copy of what
Kyle sent me. It is from an article datedMay 1963.--Jim Lagowski in N.W.
Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
>
> I have a gear mock up now built.
>
> Would anyone mind sending me pics of their axel to gear mounting in detail
> of the traditional system in addition to any non bungee designs
>
> Thanks
>
> Happy holiday
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Straight axel again
From:
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date:
Apr 13, 2009
That would be great please forward for review
Thanks
John
------Original Message------
From: Lagowski Morrow
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Apr 12, 2009 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
John, I used Fly Baby gear which has no bungees and a single axle, wire
braced. Fat, low pressure tires are the Shock absorber. I did so because of
Kyle Bradford in Eaton Rapids Mich. who used the same on his many year old
Piet. When I looked at his plane I liked the simplicity of it and copied it.
He sent me a copy of a Pete Bowers article which shows how to build the
gear. Bowers is/was Mr. Flybaby. I'll send you (or others) a copy of what
Kyle sent me. It is from an article datedMay 1963.--Jim Lagowski in N.W.
Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
>
> I have a gear mock up now built.
>
> Would anyone mind sending me pics of their axel to gear mounting in detail
> of the traditional system in addition to any non bungee designs
>
> Thanks
>
> Happy holiday
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
10:51:00
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: gas tank float idea
From:
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
That looks like it must be a type of float for a pressure vessel like I have seen
in the natural gas industry.I would expect it to be pretty heavy for use as
a float in a gas tank. but for sure at 750# working pressure it shouldn't collapse!
I do appreciate all the ideas on floats. I am thinking I'm going to hold
out for some type of brass float because I am afraid that Cork could start to
crumble and block the flow. but with a good finger strainer in the tank I doubt
that would be a problem. thanks for all the great ideas.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238851#238851
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Apr 12, 2009
From:
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject:
Re: gas tank float idea
Don't know if anyone saw this site yet:
http://www.gudim.com/ReplacingCorkFloats.html
Brass floats from Ford. The web page is a description of modifying
them to fit a Studebaker. May be useful for your needs.
HTH,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Split axle gear axle attach method
Date:
Apr 13, 2009
Ryan wrote-
> I have a question about the method others have used to attach a "Cessna
> style" axle to the axle end of their split-axle gear.
> We are using 6.00x6 wheels and tires.
>They come with axles
>For reference here's a link to a shot of Bill
> Rewey's gear from WestCoastPiet:
> http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/IMG_0393.JPG
Ryan=3B if you get the pack of drawings and ideas from Bill Rewey=2C one of
those drawings is of the gear legs and axles. The gear on 41CC is pretty
much built per Bill's detail and I have the same wheels and axles as you'll
be using=3B one pic attached but it's not a great one. Best thing is to g
et Bill's pack of drawings or wait for the next issue of the Brodhead Piete
npol Association Newsletter... word has it that Doc Mosher is going to repr
int the gear leg construction drawing in that issue.
I did find that I had so shim the axle on one side after the rebuild on my
airplane to get both wheels to track straight. They make tapered shims tha
t fit between the mounting pad and the axle but they're very expensive. I
used calibrated washers.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
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