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      2Q=
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Split axle gear axle attach method
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
From: 
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
      
      Nice looking welds, Rick.
      
      Looking at your photos, since I see a weld bead around the perimeter of
      the 1/4" mounting plate, I assume that you welded two pieces (1/8" ?)
      together to make up the 1/4" mounting plate. In this particular
      situation, since the plates are so small, I'm sure your arrangement is
      fine - but in general, two thicknesses of 1/8" do not equal one
      thickness of 1/4". At the outside edges, the strength is there, but
      everywhere else, the two pieces are not joined, and are free to move
      independantly of each other. But, again, like I said, in this particular
      situation, I think you're fine.
      
      Bill C. 
      
      ________________________________
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
      Holland
      Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:56 AM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Split axle gear axle attach method
      
      
      Hello Ryan
      
      Attached some pictures of how I did mine. I used Matco
      axles/brakes/wheels. Matco recommended 1/4" thick steel for the mount
      plates. Looking at the pictures you attached its hard to tell if bolt on
      axles were used or just a single piece of tubing with a collar welded on
      for brake attachment. Since I have not yet flown I cannot say my design
      is a proven one.
      
      Rick
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Straight axel again
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
      
      
      John, send me your mailing address, since it will have to be by mail--Jim
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
      Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:26 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
      
      
      >
      > That would be great please forward for review
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > John
      > ------Original Message------
      > From: Lagowski Morrow
      > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > To: Pietenpol builders Board
      > ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
      > Sent: Apr 12, 2009 7:25 PM
      > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
      >
      > 
      >
      > John, I used Fly Baby gear which has no bungees and a single axle, wire
      > braced. Fat, low pressure tires are the Shock absorber. I did so because 
      > of
      > Kyle Bradford in Eaton Rapids Mich. who used the same on his many year old
      > Piet. When I looked at his plane I liked the simplicity of it and copied 
      > it.
      > He sent me a copy of a Pete Bowers article which shows how to build the
      > gear. Bowers is/was Mr. Flybaby. I'll send you (or others) a copy of what
      > Kyle sent me. It is from an article datedMay 1963.--Jim Lagowski in N.W.
      > Michigan
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----- 
      > From: <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
      > To: "Pietenpol builders Board" 
      > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:12 PM
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
      >
      >
      >>
      >> I have a gear mock up now built.
      >>
      >> Would anyone mind sending me pics of their axel to gear mounting in 
      >> detail
      >> of the traditional system in addition to any non bungee designs
      >>
      >> Thanks
      >>
      >> Happy holiday
      >>
      >> John
      >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > 10:51:00
      >
      >
      > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      >
      >
      
      
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      
      
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      13:14:00
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Straight axel again
      
      Jim,
      
      Thanks for getting back to me.
      
      Please send to John Recine 
      635 South Broad Street
      Lititz, PA 17543
      
      
      Thanks
      
      John
      **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
      Steps! 
      mpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Straight axel again
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
      
      It's in the mail-Jim
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:24 AM
        Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
      
      
        Jim,
      
        Thanks for getting back to me.
      
        Please send to John Recine 
        635 South Broad Street
        Lititz, PA 17543
      
      
        Thanks
      
        John
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
        The Average US Credit 
      Sc201450100/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefaul
      t.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62> See Yours 
      in Just 2 Easy Steps!
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
      
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
      04/13/09 05:51:00
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Straight axel again
From: 
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      VGhhbmtzDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0t
      T3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiTGFnb3dza2kgTW9ycm93IiA8amltZGViQGNo
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      IGFnYWluDQoNCg0KICBKaW0sDQoNCiAgVGhhbmtzIGZvciBnZXR0aW5nIGJhY2sgdG8gbWUuDQoN
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      LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t
      LS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCg0KDQogIENoZWNrZWQgYnkgQVZHIC0gd3d3LmF2Zy5jb20gDQowNC8xMy8w
      OSAwNTo1MTowMA0KDQo
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Woodflier(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
Subject: 
Rib lacing on tail feathers
      
      OK, I've covered and rib stitched my elevators, rudder and stabilizer,  
      using 2 1/2 inch spacing for the stitched. Now I see in the Polyfiber manual  
      that if the spacing for tailfeathers isn't specified, I should use half the  
      spacing called for in propwash areas. What have other people used? Is 2 1/2  
      inches going to be close enough or should I remove the tapes and double up 
      the  stitches?
      
      Matt Paxton
      **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy 
      Steps! 
      mpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Split axle gear axle attach method
From: 
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
      
      Rick and Oscar,
      
      Thanks for the input, and the pics. I do have Bill's packet, Oscar, but I
      must have forgotten that drawing of the gear legs was in there. I recall the
      sheet about the spring struts, but not the whole gear. I will pull it out
      tonight and take another look. Thanks!
      
      Ryan
      
      On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Oscar Zuniga  wrote:
      
      >  Ryan wrote-
      >
      > > I have a question about the method others have used to attach a "Cessna
      > > style" axle to the axle end of their split-axle gear.
      > > We are using 6.00x6 wheels and tires.
      > >They come with axles
      > >For reference here's a link to a shot of Bill
      > > Rewey's gear from WestCoastPiet:
      > > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/IMG_0393.JPG
      >
      > Ryan; if you get the pack of drawings and ideas from Bill Rewey, one of
      > those drawings is of the gear legs and axles.  The gear on 41CC is pretty
      > much built per Bill's detail and I have the same wheels and axles as you'll
      > be using; one pic attached but it's not a great one.  Best thing is to get
      > Bill's pack of drawings or wait for the next issue of the Brodhead Pietenpol
      > Association Newsletter... word has it that Doc Mosher is going to reprint
      > the gear leg construction drawing in that issue.
      >
      > I did find that I had so shim the axle on one side after the rebuild on my
      > airplane to get both wheels to track straight.  They make tapered shims that
      > fit between the mounting pad and the axle but they're very expensive.  I
      > used calibrated washers.
      >
      > Oscar Zuniga
      > Air Camper NX41CC
      > San Antonio, TX
      > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 
Re: Straight axel again
Date: 
Apr 13, 2009
      
      
      I would sure appreciate a copy, if it is possible.  I have the plans and 
      most of the wood and parts, including ribs completed.  Will start building 
      this fall.  I will pay the cost for copying and sending, etc.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Ray Krause
      843 Jay Street
      Colusa, CA 95932
      530-458-7097
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
      Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 4:25 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
      
      
      > 
      >
      > John, I used Fly Baby gear which has no bungees and a single axle, wire 
      > braced. Fat, low pressure tires are the Shock absorber. I did so because 
      > of Kyle Bradford in Eaton Rapids Mich. who used the same on his many year 
      > old Piet. When I looked at his plane I liked the simplicity of it and 
      > copied it. He sent me a copy of a Pete Bowers article which shows how to 
      > build the gear. Bowers is/was Mr. Flybaby. I'll send you (or others) a 
      > copy of what Kyle sent me. It is from an article datedMay 1963.--Jim 
      > Lagowski in N.W. Michigan
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----- 
      > From: <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
      > To: "Pietenpol builders Board" 
      > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:12 PM
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight axel again
      >
      >
      >>
      >> I have a gear mock up now built.
      >>
      >> Would anyone mind sending me pics of their axel to gear mounting in 
      >> detail of the traditional system in addition to any non bungee designs
      >>
      >> Thanks
      >>
      >> Happy holiday
      >>
      >> John
      >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > 10:51:00
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Rib lacing on tail feathers
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      Matt,
      
      Referring to the table in chapter 2 of FAA Circular AC43-13, it shows for slow
      aircraft 2 1/2" in the prop wash and 3 1/2 outside of it. You should be fine.
      You ultimately can do anything you want since this airplane is an "experiment".
      I have used 3 1/2 on my tail feathers. I just went out in the hangar and measured
      the tail rib stitching on my Aeroca Sedan (145 HP) and it is 3" spacing.
      So as you can see it varies widely.? I figure if 3" is good enough there 3 1/2"
      is good enough on my slow Piet. On the wing (the concern is closer to the prop)
      I am going to double-up and use 1 3/4".
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Woodflier(at)aol.com
      Sent: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 8:27 pm
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib lacing on tail feathers
      
      
      OK, I've covered and rib stitched my elevators, rudder and stabilizer, using 2
      1/2 inch spacing for the stitched. Now I see in the Polyfiber manual that if the
      spacing for tailfeathers isn't specified, I should use half the spacing called
      for in propwash areas. What have other people used? Is 2 1/2 inches going
      to be close enough or should I remove the tapes and double up the stitches?
      
      ?
      
      Matt Paxton
      
      The Average US21621489x1201450100/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62> See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Rib lacing on tail feathers
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      Matt, 2-1/2" is the recommended spacing in the propwash unless your VNE is
      greater than 175 mph.  If you keep the rib-lacing as done, you will have to
      limit your Piet to speeds less than 175.  It is conceivable that the tail
      could see such speeds, after the wings have been shed in a terminal velocity
      dive.
      
      
      Incidentally, I used the 2-1/2" spacing on my entire wing, just to make it
      easier.  It only added a couple of extra stitches per rib.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Woodflier(at)aol.com
      Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:27 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib lacing on tail feathers
      
      
      OK, I've covered and rib stitched my elevators, rudder and stabilizer, using
      2 1/2 inch spacing for the stitched. Now I see in the Polyfiber manual that
      if the spacing for tailfeathers isn't specified, I should use half the
      spacing called for in propwash areas. What have other people used? Is 2 1/2
      inches going to be close enough or should I remove the tapes and double up
      the stitches?
      
      
      Matt Paxton
      
      
        _____  
      
      The Average
      US21621489x1201450100/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fd
      efault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62> See
      Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: 
Re: Rib lacing on tail feathers
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      Matt, I used 2 1/2" spacing in the prop wash area per the diagram in the 
      Polyfiber manual, and then decided to use 2 1/2" everywhere for uniform 
      appearance--Jim Lagowski
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Woodflier(at)aol.com 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:27 PM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib lacing on tail feathers
      
      
        OK, I've covered and rib stitched my elevators, rudder and stabilizer, 
      using 2 1/2 inch spacing for the stitched. Now I see in the Polyfiber 
      manual that if the spacing for tailfeathers isn't specified, I should 
      use half the spacing called for in propwash areas. What have other 
      people used? Is 2 1/2 inches going to be close enough or should I remove 
      the tapes and double up the stitches?
      
        Matt Paxton
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
        The Average 
      US21621489x1201450100/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fp
      m%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62> 
      See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
      
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
      04/13/09 17:56:00
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Hiller Aviation Museum
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      
      G'day=2C low 'n' slow fliers=3B
      
      
      A friend here at work just came back from a trip to the San Francisco bay a
      rea and he spoke very highly of the Hiller Aviation Museum at the San Carlo
      s Airport.  He said that there is a superb example of a single-piece wing
      =2C Ford "A"-powered Air Camper in the museum.  Has anyone seen this and do
      es anyone know who built it?  Supposedly a 1960s era built airplane.
      
      
      Thanks.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Hiller Aviation Museum
      
      But Oscar, didn't he notice the very cool Long-ez up on the roof? =)
      (you can see it with google earth)
      
      I used to fly out of there with a friend, I lived on a yacht in a  marina 
      about half a mile south of there and birds in the pattern would fly over. 
      
      See y'all at SNF next week, find us in the Alternative Engines tent. We  
      were going to bring a new Piet engine mount but have a major project that has 
      to  be finished first.
      
      ...Chrissi & Randi
      
      CG Products,  Custom Aircraft Hardware
      www.CozyGirrrl.com 
      Cozy Mk-IV RG  13B-turbo
      Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details  
      
      
      In a message dated 4/14/2009 12:55:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
      taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
      
      G'day,  low 'n' slow fliers;
      
      A friend here at work just came back from a  trip to the San Francisco bay 
      area and he spoke very highly of the Hiller  Aviation Museum at the San 
      Carlos Airport.  He said that there is a  superb example of a single-piece wing,
      
      Ford "A"-powered Air Camper in the  museum.  Has anyone seen this and does 
      anyone know who built it?   Supposedly a 1960s era built airplane.
      
      Thanks.
      
      Oscar  Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio, TX
      mailto: _taildrags(at)hotmail.com_ (mailto:taildrags(at)hotmail.com) 
      website at  http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
      (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) 
      (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Hiller Aviation Museum
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
      
      Just did a quick search of the world-wide interweb and found a couple of
      shots of the Piet in question:
      
      http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2984200180077698672RmVTIZ
      
      http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2355033650077698672NARHvg
      
      
      Bill C.
      <http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2984200180077698672RmVTIZ>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      
      Hi,
      
      Looked thru the archives and noticed that vortex generators have been mentioned,
      and a number of people said they were going to experiment with them, but I couldn't
      find where anyone had actually tried them out on a piet. Seems like about
      35 mph is accepted as the average stall speed. Anyone have before/after numbers?
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239148#239148
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      
      Why would you want to go slower than 35?
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimd
      Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 3:28 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stall speeds
      
      
      Hi,
      
      Looked thru the archives and noticed that vortex generators have been
      mentioned, and a number of people said they were going to experiment with
      them, but I couldn't find where anyone had actually tried them out on a
      piet. Seems like about 35 mph is accepted as the average stall speed. Anyone
      have before/after numbers?
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239148#239148
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
      
      
      Jim,
      
      I haven't installed them yet, though I have them prepped and ready to 
      install. My power-off stall speed with full fuselage tank (14 gal), 
      160 lb passenger, and 180 lb pilot, is 40 mph IAS. GPS runs indicate 
      that IAS is pretty close to reality, even at lower speeds. Don't know 
      what stall is for power-on; it's pretty dramatic with the big climb 
      prop that we have on it now.
      
      Jeff
      
      >
      >Hi,
      >
      >Looked thru the archives and noticed that vortex generators have 
      >been mentioned, and a number of people said they were going to 
      >experiment with them, but I couldn't find where anyone had actually 
      >tried them out on a piet. Seems like about 35 mph is accepted as the 
      >average stall speed. Anyone have before/after numbers?
      >
      >Jim
      >
      >
      >Read this topic online here:
      >
      >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239148#239148
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      
      _____________________________________________________________
      Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
      Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
      Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
      mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Hiller Aviation Museum
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      Sure is a lot bigger than that Cub.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
      Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 2:36 PM
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hiller Aviation Museum
      
      
      Just did a quick search of the world-wide interweb and found a couple of
      shots of the Piet in question:
      
      
      http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2984200180077698672RmVTIZ
      
      
      http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2355033650077698672NARHvg
      
      
      Bill C.
      <http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2984200180077698672RmVTIZ> 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      
      I would assume the higher stall is due to having a cleaner than average plane,
      or maybe the 35 mph number isn't accurate (unless it was gps I would wonder.)
      
      Was curious as the safety of the plane would seem to increase a bit as the landing
      speed/stall speed decreased. (Since the force is mass x velocity squared.)
      
      
      In the midwest it might not actually increase safety as there are other ways to
      get in trouble. I remember flying backward in a piper cub solo before and having
      to take and rush a champ in to a hangar before a squall line hit, as it would
      pick the plane up and dump it over. In kansas/missouri we often have 25 mile
      an hour winds and they typically are not steady, but gusty, so you could fall
      off one if your going to slow.
      
      I was speculating about my plane though, it should weigh about 750 lbs, has 125
      hp and two high lift wings (aerial biplane version of piet). It for sure is not
      going to be a fast plane, but it could be S.T.O.L. and that was what made me
      wonder if anyone had done VG's on a pietenpol yet, and what their experience
      is.
      
      Doubt I would do it only because the nice vintage biplane look would be off a bit
      with a 100 or so VG's across the wings.
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239158#239158
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: 
Re: Rib lacing on tail feathers
      
      I've always had a question about the "inside the prop wash" area. Does this mean
      34" out from the center assuming that I'm using a 68" prop. Or does wing location
      with respect to the prop come into play? What I mean is that for an airplane
      like a Piet where the wing is quite high, the wing may only lie behind about
      24" of the prop disk. Would this mean that I only need the tighter spaced
      stitching 12" out from center? And what about pusher configurations? I ask strictly
      from an FAA inspection standards point of view, not from a practical one.
      
      
      Malcolm Morrison 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net> 
      Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:36:38 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib lacing on tail feathers 
      
      
      Matt, I used 2 1/2" spacing in the prop wash area per the diagram in the Polyfiber
      manual, and then decided to use 2 1/2" everywhere for uniform appearance--Jim
      Lagowski 
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Woodflier(at)aol.com 
      Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:27 PM 
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rib lacing on tail feathers 
      
      
      OK, I've covered and rib stitched my elevators, rudder and stabilizer, using 2
      1/2 inch spacing for the stitched. Now I see in the Polyfiber manual that if the
      spacing for tailfeathers isn't specified, I should use half the spacing called
      for in propwash areas. What have other people used? Is 2 1/2 inches going
      to be close enough or should I remove the tapes and double up the stitches? 
      
      Matt Paxton 
      
      The Average US21621489x1201450100/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62> See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! 
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c 
      
      
      - Release Date: 04/13/09 17:56:00 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
      
      Hi Jim 
      
      Why would a cleaner airplane have a higher stall speed? Wouldn't stall speed be
      related to wing loading, not drag? As far as shooting for a lower stall speed
      I agree, the slower the better. It opens up more safe landing areas. 
      
      Malcolm Morrison 
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com> 
      Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 4:05:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stall speeds 
      
      
      I would assume the higher stall is due to having a cleaner than average plane,
      or maybe the 35 mph number isn't accurate (unless it was gps I would wonder.)
      
      
      Was curious as the safety of the plane would seem to increase a bit as the landing
      speed/stall speed decreased. (Since the force is mass x velocity squared.)
      
      
      In the midwest it might not actually increase safety as there are other ways to
      get in trouble. I remember flying backward in a piper cub solo before and having
      to take and rush a champ in to a hangar before a squall line hit, as it would
      pick the plane up and dump it over. In kansas/missouri we often have 25 mile
      an hour winds and they typically are not steady, but gusty, so you could fall
      off one if your going to slow. 
      
      I was speculating about my plane though, it should weigh about 750 lbs, has 125
      hp and two high lift wings (aerial biplane version of piet). It for sure is not
      going to be a fast plane, but it could be S.T.O.L. and that was what made me
      wonder if anyone had done VG's on a pietenpol yet, and what their experience
      is. 
      
      Doubt I would do it only because the nice vintage biplane look would be off a bit
      with a 100 or so VG's across the wings. 
      
      Jim 
      
      
      Read this topic online here: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239158#239158 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
      
      
      I agree with Jack, why would you want to stall slower than the Piet normally stalls
      at ?   Mine power-off stalls at 29 mph.   
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
      
      
      Jack,
      
      I agree; I don't want to go slower necessarily. I would like better 
      aileron feel at low speeds, though. Regardless of performance gains 
      expressed as numbers, nearly all of the "testimonials" about VG use 
      include comments on the increased controllability/responsiveness at 
      low speeds. These nearly-universal statement got me curious about the 
      potential effects on Piet handling. Might not be worth it, but it's 
      fun to experiment.
      
      Jeff
      
      >
      >Why would you want to go slower than 35?
      >
      >Jack Phillips
      >NX899JP
      >
      
      -- 
      
      _____________________________________________________________
      Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
      Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
      Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
      mailto:jboatri(at)emory.edu
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
From: 
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
      
      
      Well, 29 mph is about the lowest I've heard and very impressive! I'm 
      envious. No doubt keeping the weight low during construction and 
      building the wing with smooth leading edge, etc. helps out a lot 
      there. And, if you're happy with the handling, there wouldn't appear 
      to be any reason to experiment with VGs. But, what if your stall 
      speed was 30% higher than it is now and you didn't care for it's 
      handling?...  ;-)
      
      >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" 
      >
      >I agree with Jack, why would you want to stall slower than the Piet 
      >normally stalls at ?   Mine power-off stalls at 29 mph.
      
      -- 
      ---
      
      Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
      Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
      Emory University School of Medicine
      Editor-in-Chief
      Molecular Vision
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: stall speeds
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 14, 2009
      
      
      Interesting points you guys are bringing up. A cleaner plane wouldn't necessarily
      have a higher stall speed, as there are different types of drag, weight figures
      in, and so forth. However if you look at articles on improving a plane by
      reducing its drag, they indicate you can improve top speeds by about 15 mph,
      improve economy a bit (on an older style plane circa 1920's-30's) and that a side
      effect is usually the landing speed/stall speed going up along with the higher
      cruise speed.
      
      Why would I want a stall speed lower than 30? Same reasons given, better control
      at low speed, larger safe operating speed range, possibly shorter takeoff roll,
      ability to clean an obstacle quicker. (Those things the VG selling guys claim.)
      
      Safety might be better if it meant when things went terribly wrong you were at
      the slower speed, however that is doubtful, since there are so many ways to get
      in trouble.
      
      The VG's I was thinking of were the 100 for $100 inexpensive ones, and it was mostly
      thoughts of S.T.O.L. performance dancing in my head, that prompted me to
      ask if anyone had tried them. 
      
      Most piets in my opinion are not going to have great performance on take offs,
      as their power to weight ratio isn't that great. I have flown a 65 hp champ that
      got off the ground quick, but it didn't compare well with the 85 hp cub we
      used to have, and that paled next to 150hp super cubs, the three planes differing
      primarily in raw horse power. I would suspect the 100hp piets climb out much
      better than 65hp ones and those climb better than the model A ones.
      
      If you watch some of the clips on the landshorter website (the one with the inexpensive
      vortex generators), it can make you want something that could fly like
      those planes.
      
      Losing some of my weight and flying light with no passenger would probably accomplish
      more than I would ever need around here. The aerial specs have it's take
      off roll as 250 feet and stall around 30knots/35mph. That is pretty short/slow
      for any plane, but if it would be slower/shorter/safer and possibly more fun,
      I might consider trying them out.
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239267#239267
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
wood gear progress
From: 
"carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
      
      
      Hi all
      I just wanted to share with you all my gear progress and publicly 
      Thank Chris Tracy for all his help answering all my emails and his fantastic web
      site,and also thank all the other people that answered my questions on the list.
      Thanks
      Carson
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239374#239374
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_106_650.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_104_931.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
Subject: 
Re: wood gear progress
      
      Carson, excellent work there! I love those rims!  Are they Lexan or 
      something? J/K. Actually the photos you posted were very  helpful to me. I am not
      
      building a Piet, but have been wondering how the  straight axle set up works. 
      Does the axle simply "lay" in the "V" of the steel  plate connecting the 
      wooden legs? I know the bungees go in there too, but I  always wondered about 
      what attachments there was between the axle and the rest  of that 
      structure....
      
      Boyce
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: wood gear progress
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
      
      
      Carson,
      Wow, Looks great so far.
      When I see pics like yours, really makes me miss building.
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:10 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear progress
      
      
      >
      > Hi all
      > I just wanted to share with you all my gear progress and publicly
      > Thank Chris Tracy for all his help answering all my emails and his 
      > fantastic web site,and also thank all the other people that answered my 
      > questions on the list.
      > Thanks
      > Carson
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239374#239374
      >
      >
      > Attachments:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_106_650.jpg
      > http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_104_931.jpg
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
wood gear progress
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
      
      
      Lookin' good, Carson.  Congratulations - you've just finished the hardest
      part of the entire project.
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson
      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:11 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear progress
      
      
      Hi all
      I just wanted to share with you all my gear progress and publicly 
      Thank Chris Tracy for all his help answering all my emails and his fantastic
      web site,and also thank all the other people that answered my questions on
      the list.
      Thanks
      Carson
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239374#239374
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_106_650.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_104_931.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: wood gear progress
From: 
"carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
      
      
      Boyce
      As far as I understand the axle just sits there in the vee I have put a piece of
      pipe on the inside of the bracket to stop the axle from turning and will put
      a safety cable incase the bungee fails,nothing new I'm just copying off others
      before me.
      Carson
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239401#239401
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: wood gear progress
From: 
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
      
      
      I was considering a spring on the mount that would act as a shock absorber in lieu
      of bungees. Not quite certain about the compression tension and spring size
      that I will need which I suspect will be able to absorb 2gs upon touchdown under
      harsh landing
      
      Right now just ideas and considerations. I do expect to begin playing around with
      the mock up to see how it all fits together
      
      
      John
      ------Original Message------
      From: carson
      Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
      Sent: Apr 15, 2009 7:35 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood gear progress
      
      
      Boyce
      As far as I understand the axle just sits there in the vee I have put a piece of
      pipe on the inside of the bracket to stop the axle from turning and will put
      a safety cable incase the bungee fails,nothing new I'm just copying off others
      before me.
      Carson
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239401#239401
      
      
      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
wood gear progress
Date: 
Apr 15, 2009
      
      Carson,
      
      That's looking very nice! You and I are at very similar points. I like your
      pink brace strings. Mine are going to be yellow. ;-)
      
      Gary Boothe
      Cool, Ca.
      Pietenpol
      WW Corvair Conversion
      Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
      (13 ribs down.)
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson
      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:11 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear progress
      
      
      Hi all
      I just wanted to share with you all my gear progress and publicly 
      Thank Chris Tracy for all his help answering all my emails and his fantastic
      web site,and also thank all the other people that answered my questions on
      the list.
      Thanks
      Carson
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239374#239374
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_106_650.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_104_931.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
wood gear progress
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      
      Carson=3B
      
      
      I recommend that you put some wings on it before you try flying it =3Bo)
      
      
      I'm like Walt... seeing wood and glue come together makes me want to go out
       into the shop.  There's something magical about building from plans.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      
      Hey gang,
      
      Three questions:
      
      1.  Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach?  is there some sort
      of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop?
      
      2.  I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and wanted
      thoughts on what size cable to use.  What g's are we realistically
      protecting against after which it's just silliness?
      
      3.  What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling?  what is the best means
      of cutting out openings and holes?
      
      Thanks, as always!!
      
      Douwe
      
      spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      
      Hi Douwe,
      
      Answers to your questions:
      
      1.  Strobe tachs are available, but not cheap.  What I do is find a friend
      who owns one and use his.
      
      2.  Why run the cables all the way to the tailpost?  Cable is heavy and
      expensive, and if the cable is needed (i.e., in a crash) you are subjecting
      the structure to a load in a direction it is not really designed to resist.
      I would carry the cables just far enough aft to give you a proper angle on
      the cables and attach them to the upper longerons at a point where the
      longerons have plenty of reinforcement (where the uprights and diagonals
      come in).  I believe a 20 G limit is what is usually considered adequate.
      So if you weigh 200 lbs, and your entire weight is to be suspended from
      these cables, they will have to be capable of withstanding 4,000 lbs of load
      (2,000 lbs apiece), which will require at least 1/8" diameter cable.  By the
      time you add all the fittings you will have a couple of pounds of weight
      back where you really don't want extra weight.
      If you just attach the cables to the top longerons, drill the bolt holes
      through the longerons midway between the top and bottom surfaces of the
      longeron, with the hole running horizontally.  Make sure there are gussets
      on either side of the longeron at that point for extra reinforcement.
      
      3.  I used 2024-T3 aluminum .025" thick for my cowlings.  Large openings
      like the cockpit cutouts and cutouts around the engine are best done on a
      wood-cutting bandsaw with a metal cutting blade.  Holes are best done with a
      holesaw.  All can be cut with tin snips, if you really like blisters and
      lacerations.  Cut to the outside of your finished line and finish it up with
      a vixen file (for the straight portions) or a drum sander (for curves).
      
      Hope this helps,
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
      Blumberg
      Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      
      
      
      Hey gang,
      
      Three questions:
      
      1.  Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach?  is there some sort
      of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop?
      
      2.  I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and wanted
      thoughts on what size cable to use.  What g's are we realistically
      protecting against after which it's just silliness?
      
      3.  What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling?  what is the best means
      of cutting out openings and holes?
      
      Thanks, as always!!
      
      Douwe
      
      spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
Subject: 
Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      
      
      I have a small device that works something like a tuning fork.  Pretty cheap. We
      compared it to a strobe and it was very close. You stand 25 feet in front of
      the plane, slide a plastic holder down to the indicated RPM and look through
      a peephole and flip a small stiff rod with your finger. The rod viberates. If
      the prop moves one way it is too fast, If it moves the other it is too slow. Have
      the pilot adjust the throttle until the prop is stationary, then compare the
      RPM to the setting on the device. sounds more complicated than it is. 
      
      Blue Skies,
      
      Steve  
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
      Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:23
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      
      
      > 
      > Hi Douwe,
      > 
      > Answers to your questions:
      > 
      > 1.  Strobe tachs are available, but not cheap.  What I do is find a friend
      > who owns one and use his.
      > 
      > 2.  Why run the cables all the way to the tailpost?  Cable is heavy and
      > expensive, and if the cable is needed (i.e., in a crash) you are subjecting
      > the structure to a load in a direction it is not really designed to resist.
      > I would carry the cables just far enough aft to give you a proper angle on
      > the cables and attach them to the upper longerons at a point where the
      > longerons have plenty of reinforcement (where the uprights and diagonals
      > come in).  I believe a 20 G limit is what is usually considered adequate.
      > So if you weigh 200 lbs, and your entire weight is to be suspended from
      > these cables, they will have to be capable of withstanding 4,000 lbs of load
      > (2,000 lbs apiece), which will require at least 1/8" diameter cable.  By the
      > time you add all the fittings you will have a couple of pounds of weight
      > back where you really don't want extra weight.
      > If you just attach the cables to the top longerons, drill the bolt holes
      > through the longerons midway between the top and bottom surfaces of the
      > longeron, with the hole running horizontally.  Make sure there are gussets
      > on either side of the longeron at that point for extra reinforcement.
      > 
      > 3.  I used 2024-T3 aluminum .025" thick for my cowlings.  Large openings
      > like the cockpit cutouts and cutouts around the engine are best done on a
      > wood-cutting bandsaw with a metal cutting blade.  Holes are best done with a
      > holesaw.  All can be cut with tin snips, if you really like blisters and
      > lacerations.  Cut to the outside of your finished line and finish it up with
      > a vixen file (for the straight portions) or a drum sander (for curves).
      > 
      > Hope this helps,
      > 
      > Jack Phillips
      > NX899JP
      > 
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
      > Blumberg
      > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM
      > To: pietenpolgroup
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      > 
      > <
      > 
      > Hey gang,
      > 
      > Three questions:
      > 
      > 1.  Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach?  is there some sort
      > of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop?
      > 
      > 2.  I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and wanted
      > thoughts on what size cable to use.  What g's are we realistically
      > protecting against after which it's just silliness?
      > 
      > 3.  What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling?  what is the best means
      > of cutting out openings and holes?
      > 
      > Thanks, as always!!
      > 
      > Douwe
      > 
      > spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!!
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
From: 
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: 
Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      
      that sounds almost seductive;I think I need a glass of wine!=0A=0Ado not ar
      chive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Dortch, Steve
      n D MAJ NG NG NGB" =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matro
      nics.com=0ASent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:30:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: RE: Pi
      etenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-Lis
      t message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" =0A=0AI have a small device that works something like a tuning fork
      .- Pretty cheap. We compared it to a strobe and it was very close. You st
      and 25 feet in front of the plane, slide a plastic holder down to the indic
      ated RPM and look through a peephole and flip a small stiff rod with your f
      inger. The rod viberates. If the prop moves one way it is too fast, If it m
      oves the other it is too slow. Have the pilot adjust the throttle until the
       prop is stationary, then compare the RPM to the setting on the device. sou
      nds more complicated than it is. =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0A=0ASteve- =0A=0A----
      - Original Message -----=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>=0AD
      ate: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:23=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifyin
      g tach/cable sizes/cowling fab=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A=0A=0A>
      =0A> =0A> Answers to your questions:=0A> =0A> 1.- Strobe tachs are availa
      ble, but not cheap.- What I do is find a friend=0A> who owns one and use 
      his.=0A> =0A> 2.- Why run the cables all the way to the tailpost?- Cabl
      e is heavy and=0A> expensive, and if the cable is needed (i.e., in a crash)
       you are subjecting=0A> the structure to a load in a direction it is not re
      ally designed to resist.=0A> I would carry the cables just far enough aft t
      o give you a proper angle on=0A> the cables and attach them to the upper lo
      ngerons at a point where the=0A> longerons have plenty of reinforcement (wh
      ere the uprights and diagonals=0A> come in).- I believe a 20 G limit is w
      hat is usually considered adequate.=0A> So if you weigh 200 lbs, and your e
      ntire weight is to be suspended from=0A> these cables, they will have to be
       capable of withstanding 4,000 lbs of load=0A> (2,000 lbs apiece), which wi
      ll require at least 1/8" diameter cable.- By the=0A> time you add all the
       fittings you will have a couple of pounds of weight=0A> back where you rea
      lly don't want extra weight.=0A> If you just attach the cables to the top l
      ongerons, drill the bolt holes=0A> through the longerons midway between the
       top and bottom surfaces of the=0A> longeron, with the hole running horizon
      tally.- Make sure there are gussets=0A> on either side of the longeron at
       that point for extra reinforcement.=0A> =0A> 3.- I used 2024-T3 aluminum
       .025" thick for my cowlings.- Large openings=0A> like the cockpit cutout
      s and cutouts around the engine are best done on a=0A> wood-cutting bandsaw
       with a metal cutting blade.- Holes are best done with a=0A> holesaw.- 
      All can be cut with tin snips, if you really like blisters and=0A> lacerati
      ons.- Cut to the outside of your finished line and finish it up with=0A> 
      a vixen file (for the straight portions) or a drum sander (for curves).=0A>
       =0A> Hope this helps,=0A> =0A> Jack Phillips=0A> NX899JP=0A> =0A> -----Ori
      ginal Message-----=0A> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A> 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe=0A> B
      lumberg=0A> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM=0A> To: pietenpolgroup
      =0A> Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab=0A> 
      Hey gang,=0A> =0A> Three questions:=0A> =0A> 1.- Any suggestions for inex
      pensively verifying my tach?- is there some sort=0A> of cheap strobe type
       counter I can use on the prop?=0A> =0A> 2.- I am running my shoulder bel
      t attachment back to my tailpost and wanted=0A> thoughts on what size cable
       to use.- What g's are we realistically=0A> protecting against after whic
      h it's just silliness?=0A> =0A> 3.- What gauge aluminum should I use for 
      my cowling?- what is the best means=0A> of cutting out openings and holes
      ?=0A> =0A> Thanks, as always!!=0A> =0A> Douwe=0A> =0A> spraying fuse next w
      eek, then it's all painted!!=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> 
      =========================0A
      =================
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
From: 
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      
      http://www.grandrc.com/inc/sdetail/41051
      -
      I used one of the above while doing RC choppers. You look through the windo
      w toward the top of the unit and adjust the RPM of the unit with the slide 
      on the side. When the object you are looking at through the window, (the pr
      op, in your case) seems to freeze, you look at the digital readout of the u
      nit for the RPM. I believe it is good for 2 and 3 blade props/rotors.- (I
      've used on fans around the house just for grins...)
      
      --- On Thu, 4/16/09, Douwe Blumberg  wrote:
      
      
      From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
      Date: Thursday, April 16, 2009, 10:26 AM
      
      
      link.net>
      
      Hey gang,
      
      Three questions:
      
      1.- Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach?- is there some
       sort
      of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop?
      
      2.- I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and want
      ed
      thoughts on what size cable to use.- What g's are we realistically
      protecting against after which it's just silliness?
      
      3.- What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling?- what is the best 
      means
      of cutting out openings and holes?
      
      Thanks, as always!!
      
      Douwe
      
      spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!!
      
      
      le, List Admin.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
From: 
"Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      
      Douwe
      
      I used 1/8th inch cable anchored in 3 places.  You can see my basic setup here
      http://www.westcoastpiet.com/build_pictures_2.htm
      
      For you steely eyed people who I know will comment, I did use shorter bolts to
      attach the seat belts and did away with the large wood washers.
      
      Chris
      
      --------
      Chris Tracy
      Sacramento, CA
      WestCoastPiet.com
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239556#239556
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gardiner Mason" <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh  	possible
      ?
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      Jack, I have a couple of setbacks. While weighing  for wt and ballance 
      the plane slipped back off the scales and messed up the bottom of nose 
      piece. I am rebuilding it now. Also while filling up my wet wing center 
      section fuel tank lo and behold it leaked profusely. I am now having a 
      new one made out of aluminum. I sure hope my mistakes are over with. I 
      am flying to sun n fun Sunday. Will you be there?Gardiner
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Jack Phillips 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:46 AM
        Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to 
      Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
      
      
        Congratulations, Gardiner for finishing the Piet and for finally 
      getting Matronics to accept your posts.
      
         
      
        You've got three months to fly off the time on your Piet and have it 
      ready for Brodhead - should be plenty of time.  Hope to see it (and you) 
      there.
      
         
      
        Jack
      
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
        From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner 
      Mason
        Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:10 PM
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to 
      Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
      
         
      
        Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet.  
      CG is in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for 
      Brodhead but I am not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140 
      tomake the trip.. Cheers, Gardiner.
      
          ----- Original Message ----- 
      
          From: Gardiner Mason 
      
          To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
          Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM
      
          Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to 
      Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
      
           
      
          Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
      
            ----- Original Message ----- 
      
            From: Jack Phillips 
      
            To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
            Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
      
            Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to 
      Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
      
             
      
            Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the 
      surrounding terrain as do the Rockies.  Mount Mitchell, in western North 
      Carolina is 6,684' above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 
      595' MSL, so it rises over 6,000' above its surroundings.  The land 
      around the Rockies is nearly 6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 
      12,000' are truly "taller" than the highest peaks in the Appalachians.  
      Density altitude is another matter entirely.
      
             
      
            Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites.  
      Here's typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last 
      year.  At about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 
      knots, groundspeed.
      
             
      
            Jack Phillips
      
            Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to 
      Brodhead.
      
             
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -
      
            From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
      Holland
            Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
            To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
            Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to 
      Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ?
      
             
      
            4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
      
      
         
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
      ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
      ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
      http://www.matronics.com/c  
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
      comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh  	possible
      ?
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      Not this year.  Trying to get everything together to make Brodhead and maybe
      Oshkosh, but can't do everything.  Sorry to hear about your mishaps.
      
      
      Jack
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner
      Mason
      Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:02 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
      possible ?
      
      
      Jack, I have a couple of setbacks. While weighing  for wt and ballance the
      plane slipped back off the scales and messed up the bottom of nose piece. I
      am rebuilding it now. Also while filling up my wet wing center section fuel
      tank lo and behold it leaked profusely. I am now having a new one made out
      of aluminum. I sure hope my mistakes are over with. I am flying to sun n fun
      Sunday. Will you be there?Gardiner
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:46 AM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
      possible ?
      
      
      Congratulations, Gardiner for finishing the Piet and for finally getting
      Matronics to accept your posts.
      
      
      You've got three months to fly off the time on your Piet and have it ready
      for Brodhead - should be plenty of time.  Hope to see it (and you) there.
      
      
      Jack
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner
      Mason
      Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:10 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
      possible ?
      
      
      Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet.  CG is
      in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for Brodhead but I am
      not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140 tomake the trip.. Cheers,
      Gardiner.
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Gardiner <mailto:airlion(at)bellsouth.net>  Mason 
      
      
      Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM
      
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
      possible ?
      
      
      Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
      possible ?
      
      
      Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding terrain
      as do the Rockies.  Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is 6,684'
      above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so it rises
      over 6,000' above its surroundings.  The land around the Rockies is nearly
      6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000' are truly "taller" than
      the highest peaks in the Appalachians.  Density altitude is another matter
      entirely.
      
      
      Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites.  Here's
      typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year.  At
      about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots,
      groundspeed.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to Brodhead.
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
      Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh
      possible ?
      
      
      4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains!
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      http://forums.matronics.com
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: 
Tach Check
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      
      The R/C guys (myself included) use an optical tach.  The I have is  
      from GloBee.  I know a buddy of mine used one to test the tach in his  
      Skybolt.
      
      I'd give a link but this phone won't let me copy and paste (yet).
      
      They have them at towerhobbies.com for $28.
      
      Wayne Bressler Jr.
      Taildraggers, Inc.
      taildraggersinc.com
      
      Sent from my iPhone
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab
From: 
"Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: 
Apr 16, 2009
      
      
      I should add that the reason I used three anchor points was to make the load an
      each anchor as low as possible.  I know from rock climbing that the angle between
      the two anchor points is very important when it comes to lowering the load
      on the anchors. What you want to shoot for is about a 20 degree angle between
      each arm of the the sling attached to the two anchor points. This will load
      each anchor with 1/2 the actual load. Any angle greater then this and you will
      load the anchors more then half.  
      
      For a good discussion on this topic see this web page
      http://www.southeastclimbing.com/faq/faq_anchor_forces.htm
      
      Chris
      
      --------
      Chris Tracy
      Sacramento, CA
      WestCoastPiet.com
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239568#239568
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Thanks
Date: 
Apr 17, 2009
      
      
      Thank you all for answering my questions.
      
      Let's never forget what a fantastic resource this group is.  I appreciate
      everybody who cares to take the time and answer/discuss questions that come
      up, but I am especially appreciative of those who have finished building
      (some years back), yet still volunteer their time patiently helping and
      encouraging those still building, or even daydreaming (answering the same
      questions year after year).
      
      I view this as a service to the legacy of this legendary aircraft and its
      designer.  Let's all pitch in when areas in which we are experienced are
      discussed, and not stop once we're flying.
      
      Thanks again!
      
      Douwe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
painting
From: 
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: 
Apr 17, 2009
      
      
      OK I finally got to the point of spraying my fuselage today.just shot the last
      coat of Poly-spray about an hour and a half earlier. mixed up some Pontiac red
      like the instructions said-about 1/4 reducer. and shot one side with it laying
      on it's side.it really looks rough.I just am not getting it to flow out smooth.
      would look just as well with a roller.I even put some MEK in the gun and went
      back and misted it hoping it might smooth it out but it just isn't laying
      down flat.it might fly just as well if dimples reduce drag on a golfball I guess
      a rough surface on a Piet won't slow it down much more but I can't see the
      point in doing anymore unless I can do better.I'm using a cheap HVLP gun and it
      just isn't putting out a fine enough mist as far as I can tell. Raymond
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239746#239746
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
To Sun 'n Fun Tomorrow
Date: 
Apr 17, 2009
      
      This is especially to Rick Holland
      
      Saw on the news this morning that you are in line for 2 to 4 feet of snow
      today. Just wanted to let you know that we are flying down to Florida in the
      morning for Sun n Fun. It should be in the 80's all week. We will be
      thinking of you.
      
      See you at Brodhead
      
      Barry Davis
      Big Piet Builder
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: painting
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 18, 2009
      
      
      When you are spraying there are a number of factors that matter for getting a good
      finish. 
      
      Cheap HVLP guns can work, but they are harder to get good results with than good
      HVLP guns, as they usually have a smaller pattern. With an HVLP gun in general
      you need lots of volume in your compressor, which practically means at minimum
      a 220V compressor that puts out about 15cfm at 40 psi. (There are not any
      110V ones that do that, and its hard to get a cheap compressor that does.) So
      your $20 gun from HF to work well takes a $400 compressor to get enough air to
      work well.
      
      Second thing is the viscosity of the paint, it needs to be well mixed, very uniform
      throughout, so it should be ran through a paint filter screen (those little
      funnel things they sell at paint stores) to make sure there are no lumps/globs
      of paint, so the paint will flow smoothly thru the gun. The thickness of the
      paint needs to be correct. Not sure for polyspray what that thickness is, but
      you measure it typically with a drip cup. The cup has a precise sized hole
      in it, you put the paint in and count the number of drips in a period of time,
      if there are not enough the paint is to thick and needs a small amount of whatever
      the appropriate thinner is added to it, further mixing, then checking until
      the thickness is correct. 
      
      Third thing is practice/get it right before you spray your plane. Make up a square
      frame out of scrap wood, stretch some cloth over it, shrink it, and then use
      it as a test panel to get the priming/painting right before doing it on the
      plane. You want to do this like a science experiment, keep track of the temp/humidity,
      take notes on how you adjusted the spray from your first light mist
      coats thru to the final coat, keep track of the time between coats, and as much
      information about what the mix of paint and thinner was as possible. Then when
      you have a working combination of settings that gets a result you wouldn't
      mind on your plane you use that to actually do the plane.
      
      If you don't have a big enough compressor you can rent one, or use a cheap non-hvlp
      gun. HF has one that takes about 6cfm at 40psi, which is about what most
      110V compressors can put out, and I am told it gives good results, though I haven't
      tried it yet. So for $20-30 you can have something that works well. Of course
      its not HVLP so the wasted paint is much higher and that polytone costs
      a lot, so you may not end up saving anything over getting a bigger compressor.
      
      Spraying MEK sounds like a bad idea in general though, as it is not something you
      should be breathing, don't recall any instructions that say to spray it.. hope
      your using a high quality respirator.
      
      I am sure some of the other guys with more painting experience will have advice
      for you. With the finish already not to your liking I am not sure what to suggest.
      
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239889#239889
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 18, 2009
Subject: 
Re: To Sun 'n Fun Tomorrow
From: 
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
      
      So you Southern boys think you are the only ones that get to enjoy the warn
      Spring weather down at SNF? I am heading down there on Wednesday, hope to
      see you. And yes we are having less than optimal flying weather here in
      Denver, attached a picture of the back yard I just took.
      
      Rick
      
      On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Barry Davis  wrote:
      
      >  This is especially to *Rick Holland*
      > **
      > Saw on the news this morning that you are in line for 2 to 4 feet of snow
      > today. Just wanted to let you know that we are flying down to Florida in the
      > morning for Sun n Fun. It should be in the 80's all week. We will be
      > thinking of you.
      >
      > See you at Brodhead
      >
      > Barry Davis
      > Big Piet Builder
      >
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: painting
From: 
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: 
Apr 18, 2009
      
      
      Jim thanks for the tips. as usual I didn't buy enough poly-tone to waste much and
      didn't try to test spray first. I did find my older cheaper Harbor freight
      gun I used to use with better success.it had a cracked neck on the cup that would
      cause drips and that is why i bought the more expensive Campbell Hausfeld
      gun I used this time.I wet sanded the area some today to smooth it down some and
      cleaned the old gun good and patched the cup with JB weld. I'm going to try
      to spray with it and expect better results. now that I think about it the last
      time I used the new one it didn't work well though not this bad.I will experiment
      with lower pressure and test more.I have about a 300 gallon pressure tank
      to losing air is not a problem and I have a paint regulator/air  dryer so that
      isn't really a problem.I expect the newer gun just isn't the right size orifice
      for one thing. I'm pretty sure I read that there are at least 3 different
      size orifices for different paints and I would expect I have one that is not
      suited well to what I'm doing.Raymond
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239986#239986
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: painting
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 18, 2009
      
      
      Wow, 300 gallon pressure tank? 
      
      Most big compressor tanks are 60 gallon, thats like 5 big ones.. in one? Must be
      gigantic. If your running big hoses and have a dryer it sounds like the only
      cheap thing is your gun. 
      
      I took the Stewart Systems covering class, my notes had us using; DeVilbiss FinishLine3
      HVLP guns with 1.2 to 1.4 tips, and a DuPont M50 viscosity cup, which
      we used to measure out 22 drips of the paint with, and then sprayed everything
      with at least a 13 cfm compressor behind it. 
      
      Anyway I have a cheaper 110V compressor that will not drive a HVLP gun, but I bought
      one of the cheap well recommended HF ones and will be trying it out soon.
      Experimenting with Latex, which is super thick and hard to get a great finish
      with, but it is very inexpensive and pretty easy to fix. I bought paint that
      matched my fuselage color for the wings, and actually used some of it to paint
      my bathroom (with a roller) looked good, but I digress.
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239992#239992
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: painting
From: 
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: 
Apr 18, 2009
      
      
      Well it's nothing fancy-I just scrounged a water softener tank from a gas compressor
      station I was working at when they removed it. - cleaned it out and mounted
      it and set a cheap 5 horse twin cylinder compressor on a stand beside it.
      takes a while to get it up to pressure but holds a long time.I don't pressure
      it up to but about 80 pounds .
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240006#240006
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Mountain Piet
From: 
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: 
Apr 19, 2009
      
      
      What ever became of it? I thought it was going to be re-built but forget if I ever
      heard how that went. anybody else running the Subaru conversion? Raymond
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240213#240213
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Mountain Piet
Date: 
Apr 19, 2009
      
      
      It is currently being rebuilt in central Missouri by Greg Bacon. Progress 
      has been slow for the past year but Greg is renewing his efforts and is 
      determined to get it back in the air.
      
      Greg Cardinal
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
      Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:43 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet
      
      
      >
      > What ever became of it? I thought it was going to be re-built but forget 
      > if I ever heard how that went. anybody else running the Subaru conversion? 
      > Raymond
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240213#240213
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 2009
From: 
Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: 
Re: Mountain Piet
      
      
      What was the cause of the engine failure?  Too bad, that is a good  
      looking plane.  Glad to hear it is being fixed.
      
      http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/John3.html
      
      Steve Ruse
      Norman, OK
      
      Quoting gcardinal :
      
      >
      > It is currently being rebuilt in central Missouri by Greg Bacon.
      > Progress has been slow for the past year but Greg is renewing his
      > efforts and is determined to get it back in the air.
      >
      > Greg Cardinal
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----- From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
      > To: 
      > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:43 PM
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Piet
      >
      >
      >>
      >> What ever became of it? I thought it was going to be re-built but   
      >> forget if I ever heard how that went. anybody else running the   
      >> Subaru conversion? Raymond
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Read this topic online here:
      >>
      >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240213#240213
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Materials List
From: 
"TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Apr 20, 2009
      
      
      Hello all,
      
      This might be a tedious question (my apologies in advance). This is my first posting
      here. I ordered Piet plans from Don/Andrew. I am hoping to put in an order
      for wood before my plans arrive for the aircamper, as I am off to fly a trip
      in 6 days. I could be gone for more than 2 weeks. 
      
      My hope is to hit the ground running when I get back home in May, as I have 2 weeks
      home each month to "toss her together". I am seeking a materials list for
      just the wing ribs and tailfeather material so as to place an order w/aircraft
      spruce or wicks this week, thereby possibly saving a months time awaiting delivery.
      Any takers? Thanks in advance..
      
      Rgrds;
      
      Larry
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240386#240386
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au>
Date: 
Apr 20, 2009
      
      
      Im just heading out the door for 3 days myself,I can give you mine when I get back
      if no one else replies,I only have a hard copy so will have to type it out
      Carson
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240400#240400
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Materials List
Date: 
Apr 20, 2009
      
      
      Larry,
      
      Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols and Pietenpol builders.  It's
      been a while since I built mine (particularly the ribs), so I'm going on old
      memory, but as I recall, it takes 3 6' lengths of 1/4" x 1/2" for each rib,
      plus gusset material.
      
      Are you planning to use aircraft grade materials?  If so you will likely be
      ordering from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce & Specialty.  Shipping gets pretty
      expensive, because the big pieces (like 4' x 8' sheetsof plywood, and spars
      and longerons) are too big to go UPS and must be shipped by truck.
      Generally the shipping costs at least $150, so you should try to order it
      all at once.  Shipping one spar costs $150.  Shipping four spars and four
      longerons and several sheets of plywood probably costs around $165.
      
      If you want to just get enough to do the ribs, you will be better off to
      order a few pieces of plywood sheets, so they can ship more cheaply.  You
      can order 2' x 4' sections and pay a little more for the wood but save a lot
      on the shipping.  6' pieces of spruce can also ship cheaply, so I would say,
      for the ribs, order 90, 6' pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrip, and a
      couple of 2'x4' pieces of 1/16" plywood (birch or mahogany - your choice).
      If you order from Aircraft Spruce, I would also buy their "Bargain Bag of
      Spruce" - it truly is a baragin and you will get several nice pieces of
      spruce that you will find uses for at some point in your project.  You will
      also need glue (I use resorcinol, everybody else uses T-88) and a pound of
      1/2" AN501 nails, and that should be enough to atleast get you through the
      ribs.
      
      Have Fun!
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      Raleigh,NC
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TriScout
      Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:04 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Materials List
      
      
      Hello all,
      
      This might be a tedious question (my apologies in advance). This is my first
      posting here. I ordered Piet plans from Don/Andrew. I am hoping to put in an
      order for wood before my plans arrive for the aircamper, as I am off to fly
      a trip in 6 days. I could be gone for more than 2 weeks.
      
      My hope is to hit the ground running when I get back home in May, as I have
      2 weeks home each month to "toss her together". I am seeking a materials
      list for just the wing ribs and tailfeather material so as to place an order
      w/aircraft spruce or wicks this week, thereby possibly saving a months time
      awaiting delivery. Any takers? Thanks in advance..
      
      Rgrds;
      
      Larry
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240386#240386
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: 
Apr 20, 2009
      
      
      Hi Larry!
      
      I am also new to the Pietenpol, but I will vouch for Jack's memory.  I recently
      ordered exactly what he recommends and found that amount of material to be just
      right.  I've got all of my diagonals and uprights cut and I had enough to shape
      the top and bottom capstrips as well.  
      
      Jack: "for the ribs, order 90, 6' pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrip, and a
      couple of 2'x4' pieces of 1/16" plywood"
      
      I also picked up the Bargain Bag of Spruce and it does indeed contain a nice variety
      of various sizes and shapes.  I've not used any yet, but I'm sure it will
      be useful at some point.
      
      I am also using T-88 as Jack mentioned.  I like it so far as it allows a good working
      time (45 min or so) and is super strong.  I'm using 1/4" nails, which seem
      to be adequate in holding the gussets in place.  Even though the plans call
      for 1/2" nails, they seem a bit long, but I don't suppose either would be necessarily
      bad to use.  According to "The Sportplane Builder" - Tony Bingelis,
      "the nails should be long enough to penetrate the underlying structure by 3 times
      the thickness of the surface plywood."  1/16" ply should require 1/4" nail.
      I hope I'm not overlooking some other reason that the plans might have called
      for 1/2" nails.  If you plan to use 1/4" nails, get a good, lightweight pair
      of needle nose pliers and a tack hammer.
      
      I think the capstrip and wing rib assembly should keep you busy for several weeks.
      If you order the stuff mentioned above, it should come UPS ground... mine
      did.  That should keep you off the freight truck until you get a better idea
      what all you need to order for the rest of the build.  
      
      Good luck on your build!
      
      --------
      Mark
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240411#240411
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 20, 2009
From: 
Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
      
      So if you're using T-88....think about this....
      
      Print out an excel spreadsheet (like the picture I've attached to this email) that
      shows how much T-88 to mix by weight.  The spreadsheet shows two columns,
      the one on the left shows a weight for the hardener and the number in the right
      hand column is what the scale will show when you then add just the right amount
      of resin.
      
      It's a neat way to do it because no matter how much hardener you put in, the spreadsheet
      shows exactly how much resin to then add...much more accurate than guestimating
      half and half...
      
      For example, if I add 5.80 oz of hardener (I color coded the columns to help keep
      it straight) then all I do is add resin until the scale says 12.788.  But if
      I accidentally put in a bit more, say 5.95 oz then I keep pouring the resin
      until the scale says 13.119.
      
      Maybe it's just me and everyone else figured this out already but this has REALLY
      helped speed up the T-88 process and keep my mix, which I used to just guess
      at, very accurate.
      
      Jim in Pryor
      
      
      >I am also using T-88 as Jack mentioned.  I like it so far as it allows a good
      working time (45 min or so) and is super strong.  
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Peter Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: 
Materials List
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Larry,
      
      I have a list on my web site. Go to http://www.cpc-world.com.
      
      Under "Services and Suppliers" there is a wood cutting list.
      
      Hope it helps.
      
      Peter
      Wonthaggi Australia
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TriScout
      Sent: Tuesday, 21 April 2009 10:04 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Materials List
      
      
      Hello all,
      
      This might be a tedious question (my apologies in advance). This is my first
      posting here. I ordered Piet plans from Don/Andrew. I am hoping to put in an
      order for wood before my plans arrive for the aircamper, as I am off to fly
      a trip in 6 days. I could be gone for more than 2 weeks. 
      
      My hope is to hit the ground running when I get back home in May, as I have
      2 weeks home each month to "toss her together". I am seeking a materials
      list for just the wing ribs and tailfeather material so as to place an order
      w/aircraft spruce or wicks this week, thereby possibly saving a months time
      awaiting delivery. Any takers? Thanks in advance..
      
      Rgrds;
      
      Larry
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240386#240386
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Epoxy chart
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      Jim,
      
      Any chance you could scan and post a good copy of your chart? I wish I had had
      that when I was using a lot of glue. I am sure I wasted much in my estimation
      method.
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
From: 
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
      
      Hello Larry and welcome. 
      -
      Besides the material for the plane itself, you need material to build a rib
       jig, a pre-bending jig and a cap strip soaker. There are many ways to buil
      d these items and to save space here, I have emailed you off list. If I may
       assist further, email me directly.
      -
      Welcome to the show!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
mountain piet
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      If my memory serves me correctly, Mountain Piets Subaru engine quit on the
      way home from Brodhead.  John managed a miraculous emergency landing, in a
      yard I think.
      
      I believe the engine quit because of the control nodule (the Brain).  There
      is an automatic shut off function which turns your car off if it senses
      certain problems which might damage the motor.  I don't remember what set it
      off, but this function had not been disarmed and it sensed something it
      didn't like and turned off the motor.  It was really a shame, I've rarely
      seen craftsmanship like on that plane.   This is generally what we all heard
      happend from John, though the details might be a bit off due to my memory.
      
      Great motor, great plane, great pilot, and a very great God...
      
      Douwe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Hi Larry,
      The ribs are a good place to be starting.  ...lots of little pieces (I think I
      had to make 960 gussets) with about 45 total pieces in each rib.  Some of us didn't
      use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptable in his book.
      I found that while the jig took a little longer to make, making ribs with clamps
      meant instead of using several nails in each of the 30 gussets per rib  I
      just lifted, turned and dropped the clamp and moved on to the next gusset.  It
      was pretty simple to make and I used that system on my empennage too, although
      the time-savings paid off more in the rib building since you're making quite
      a few of the same part.  Used 1/4" carriage bolts, wingnuts and paint sticks.
      The clamps were easy to uproot and reuse to make other parts as well.  There
      are a few of this who have used a variation of this method.  Also, no nails
      to remove when done.  Here's a few pictures to give you some more ideas.  
      
      http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=21&filter=0
      http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=4&filter=0
      
      Have fun, this is a fantastic project and great community!
      
      --------
      Glenn Thomas
      N?????
      http://www.flyingwood.com
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240437#240437
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
From: 
Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: 
Re: Epoxy chart
      
      --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
      
        A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
        The entire body of the message was removed.  Please
        resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
      
        HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
        in their client's default configuration.  If you're using
        HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
        and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
      
      --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Epoxy chart
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      Jim,
      
      Those word docs are great. Thanks from me, and I am sure a bunch of others on this
      list. No need for scanning.
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Thanks guys..
      
      This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the time
      to reply. 
      
      I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still have
      some plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll have to
      disect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib nails as well..
      little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some ordering to do,
      and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine it'll take a bit
      of time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before cranking them out...
      
      Larry
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240477#240477
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention (no nails),
      I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility.    
      
      I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his options
      too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set?  I'm considering
      leaving mine in.  Is their any major disadvantage except the few ounces
      of weight?  Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing or something?
      
      
      Glenn Thomas wrote:
      > Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptable
      in his book.
      
      
      --------
      Mark
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240478#240478
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      why not just use 1/4 inch staples and a light weight staple gun. Its fast
      and easy. The staples can then be easily pulled out with a small end nipper
      type pliers. Thats the way I did it. I jigged up one rib and glued and
      stapled one side. Pulled it from the form and added the gussets on the
      other side. I then pulled the staples from the rib that was glued up the
      day before. It usually took me less than an hour to glue up a complete rib
      and remove the staples from another. On my best day I think I did four ribs
      one Saturday afternoon.
      
      Rick Schreiber
      
      
      > [Original Message]
      > From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
      > To: 
      > Date: 4/21/2009 11:01:48 AM
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
      >
      >
      > Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention
      (no nails), I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility.    
      >
      > I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his
      options too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set? 
      I'm considering leaving mine in.  Is their any major disadvantage except
      the few ounces of weight?  Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing
      or something?
      >
      >
      > Glenn Thomas wrote:
      > > Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is
      acceptable in his book.
      >
      >
      > --------
      > Mark
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240478#240478
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.
      
      Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.
      
      Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....
      
      My 2 cents.....
      
      Dave
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of K5YAC
      Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:57 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
      
      
      Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention (no
      nails), I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility.
      
      I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his
      options too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set?
      I'm considering leaving mine in.  Is their any major disadvantage except the
      few ounces of weight?  Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing or
      something?
      
      
      Glenn Thomas wrote:
      > Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is
      acceptable in his book.
      
      
      --------
      Mark
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240478#240478
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      I'm using the glue covered nails too, so I guess I'll leave them in as well.  
      
      Great idea on the staples Rick.
      
      
      davea(at)symbolicdisplays wrote:
      > I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.
      > 
      > Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.
      > 
      > Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....
      > 
      > My 2 cents.....
      > 
      > Dave
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > --
      
      
      --------
      Mark
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240505#240505
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T88 hint......Re: Materials List
From: 
"K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Awesome!  I have a digital scale for reloading that will work great for this method.
      
      Thanks for the info Jim!
      
      --------
      Mark
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240506#240506
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      What happened to the FOKKER?????
      
      Dave
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TriScout
      Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:28 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
      
      
      Thanks guys..
      
      This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the
      time to reply.
      
      I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still
      have some plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll
      have to disect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib
      nails as well.. little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some
      ordering to do, and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine
      it'll take a bit of time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before
      cranking them out...
      
      Larry
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240477#240477
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
T-88
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      Being through 2 projects using T-88, I think everyone is going off on a 
      tangent with this.
      Rarely do you have to mix enough glue to have to weigh it.
      When building my Piet, I used only 1 1/2 of the kits that someone showed 
      a pic of.
      That's without starving joints, with all the joints up to spec.
      When I mixed glue for a normal glueing session, I used an old saucer 
      from the cabinet that was a throwaway.
      Just cut the nozzles at the same length, to get equal bead widths.
      Simply run two beads along side each other,  making sure you don't 
      stretch the beads or pile them up.
      T-88 is equal amounts per volume. So equal lengths + equal widths = 
      Good
      Go to the drug store and buy tongue depressors.  Grab the end in your 
      teeth and pull it and split it long ways.
      Now you have 2 applicators.
      Make beads 1 1/2" long and you can do a rib or more.
      
      Only time I mixed in cups, is when I glued, like the ply to the fuse 
      side.
      
      If you need more ,,mix more. Just don't touch either bottle to what's 
      left of the old mix. It'll mess the full bottle.
      
      When done,,wipe the plate with a paper towel.
      After awhile you can chip off the old glue layers with an old wood 
      chisel by hand.
      
      Also T-88 is amazing, cause it works just as well on wet wood!
      Check the spec
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Kirk Huizenga <kirkh1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: 
Re: T-88
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      You may be right Walt. For what it is worth, it is equal amounts by  
      volume, but if you do weigh it is 100/83 Resin to Hardener (at least  
      it was when I called System Three a number of years ago)
      
      Just an FYI for us with scales that sometimes mix up bigger batches  
      and like spreadsheets
      
      Kirk
      On Apr 21, 2009, at 2:47 PM, walt wrote:
      
      > Being through 2 projects using T-88, I think everyone is going off  
      > on a tangent with this.
      > Rarely do you have to mix enough glue to have to weigh it.
      > When building my Piet, I used only 1 1/2 of the kits that someone  
      > showed a pic of.
      > That's without starving joints, with all the joints up to spec.
      > When I mixed glue for a normal glueing session, I used an old saucer  
      > from the cabinet that was a throwaway.
      > Just cut the nozzles at the same length, to get equal bead widths.
      > Simply run two beads along side each other,  making sure you don't  
      > stretch the beads or pile them up.
      > T-88 is equal amounts per volume. So equal lengths + equal widths =  
      > Good
      > Go to the drug store and buy tongue depressors.  Grab the end in  
      > your teeth and pull it and split it long ways.
      > Now you have 2 applicators.
      > Make beads 1 1/2" long and you can do a rib or more.
      >
      > Only time I mixed in cups, is when I glued, like the ply to the fuse  
      > side.
      >
      > If you need more ,,mix more. Just don't touch either bottle to  
      > what's left of the old mix. It'll mess the full bottle.
      >
      > When done,,wipe the plate with a paper towel.
      > After awhile you can chip off the old glue layers with an old wood  
      > chisel by hand.
      >
      > Also T-88 is amazing, cause it works just as well on wet wood!
      > Check the spec
      >
      > walt evans
      > NX140DL
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
Subject: 
Re: T-88
      
      you guys are killing me here with all that measuring I count rather than  
      scale. I use west systems epoxy from west marine great stuff and the mix is  
      simple one pump of resin and one pump of hardner  into my little black  
      plastic Quiznos  cup, get the wooded coffee stirrer from the local  7-11 or 
      equivalent convenience store and get out the flux brush for  some serious 
      gluing. I make up a batch and use it all up at a couple of  different sites so
      
      none of it goes to waste. 
      
      Now that's gluin, life is good!
      
      John 
      **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
      steps! 
      hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooter421NO62)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: T-88
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      Kirk,
      Don't get me wrong.
      You are absolutly right in your figuring.
      On my first project, I got all the cups and things.
      But then realized,,,you don't need that much!
      So much is wasted in a cup.
      That's way I wrote what I wrote
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Kirk Huizenga 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:03 PM
        Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
      
      
        You may be right Walt. For what it is worth, it is equal amounts by 
      volume, but if you do weigh it is 100/83 Resin to Hardener (at least it 
      was when I called System Three a number of years ago)
      
      
        Just an FYI for us with scales that sometimes mix up bigger batches 
      and like spreadsheets
      
      
        Kirk
      
        On Apr 21, 2009, at 2:47 PM, walt wrote:
      
      
          Being through 2 projects using T-88, I think everyone is going off 
      on a tangent with this.
          Rarely do you have to mix enough glue to have to weigh it.
          When building my Piet, I used only 1 1/2 of the kits that someone 
      showed a pic of.
          That's without starving joints, with all the joints up to spec.
          When I mixed glue for a normal glueing session, I used an old saucer 
      from the cabinet that was a throwaway.
          Just cut the nozzles at the same length, to get equal bead widths.
          Simply run two beads along side each other,  making sure you don't 
      stretch the beads or pile them up.
          T-88 is equal amounts per volume. So equal lengths + equal widths 
      = Good
          Go to the drug store and buy tongue depressors.  Grab the end in 
      your teeth and pull it and split it long ways.
          Now you have 2 applicators.
          Make beads 1 1/2" long and you can do a rib or more.
      
          Only time I mixed in cups, is when I glued, like the ply to the fuse 
      side.
      
          If you need more ,,mix more. Just don't touch either bottle to 
      what's left of the old mix. It'll mess the full bottle.
      
          When done,,wipe the plate with a paper towel.
          After awhile you can chip off the old glue layers with an old wood 
      chisel by hand.
      
          Also T-88 is amazing, cause it works just as well on wet wood!
          Check the spec
      
          walt evans
          NX140DL
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
      ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      ontribution
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T-88
From: 
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Walt,
      
      I did exactly as you (laying 2 beads side by side) and never had a problem with
      any joints on my plane nor with any of the sample test pieces that I made to
      destroy.  Always tore the wood and not the glue.  Good stuff.
      
      Don Emch
      NX899DE
      Trusting T-88 for a couple hundred hours now....
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240539#240539
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Materials List
From: 
"TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
      
      
      Don't have the plans yet and don't know how it translates to fokker ribs, but you'd
      just leave the nails in on the ones I built. Will "attempt to attach" photos..
      if you can see nails in there.. Any thoughts on this for the piet?
      
      What happened to the Fokker someone axed..er..asked? Too big a project and aint
      as fun/cheap as a Piet. Fokkers belong at Rhinebeck. A piet seems to be more
      realistic as a solo project and about a quarter or third the cost of a Tripe.
      You should really have a team or couple folk building a full scale war replica,
      (my humble opinion) as well as a few ground folk to help you fly it. The Piet
      is more like the Champ I used to have. One can fly it on his/her own. Plus you
      can give your kids, and later, grandkids a ride. I still have those ribs as
      garage wall decor..
      
      Atleast I have some practice with many a rib..
      
      Larry
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240545#240545
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_182.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/3_581.jpg
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/1_178.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 21, 2009
Subject: 
Re: T-88
From: 
Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com>
      
      For what it's worth - The best way I've found is to use the paper ketchup
      cups from a food restaurant. Take a flat tongue suppressor and make three
      marks across the width at 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" at one end using a ball point
      pen. When you're ready to measure, lay the flat side of the tongue
      suppressor against the inside of the cup and transfer one of calibration
      marks to the inside of the cup with a pen or pencil. Do the same to a second
      cup. Pour epoxy to your line mark in one cup and then hardener to the line
      mark in the second cup. Pour the contents of the epoxy cup into the cup with
      the hardener and mix thoroughly. Throw both cups away when your finished. I
      found that a 1/4" in each cup when mixed,(that's a 1/2" mixed T-88), usually
      gives me enough to glue all of the gussets on one side of a wing rib, before
      the it starts to thicken and cure out.
      
      The plastic coffee stir sticks can be used also. Cut them in half and use
      the lower flat end to stir and then apply the epoxy.
      
      Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
      
      Corvair Powered/GN1 Rebuild Project
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 22, 2009
From: 
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: T-88
      
      I'm with Walt on this as well. The attached picture is what I have been usi
      ng. I use the "stick" end to mix/apply, not the cotton. I have been using t
      he same stick and plastic cup for weeks now..just wipe of the stick when do
      ne. The cup will accumulate dried epoxy on the bottom. Once that gets to be
       about 1/8" thick, you can pop it right out by flexing the bottom of the cu
      p. So far I am on my second set of T-88, about my 5th cup, and I have only 
      used a hand full of sticks.- For what it's worth...
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Lynn Knoll" <dknoll(at)cox.net>
Subject: 
Re:  T-88
Date: 
Apr 22, 2009
      
      Try popsicle sticks for mixing and applying. They are the perfect size 
      and are available at craft stores.
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 22, 2009
From: 
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Re: T-88
      
      I'm with Walt on this as well. The attached picture is what I have been usi
      ng. I use the "stick" end to mix/apply, not the cotton. I have been using t
      he same stick and plastic cup for weeks now..just wipe of the stick when do
      ne. The cup will accumulate dried epoxy on the bottom. Once that gets to be
       about 1/8" thick, you can pop it right out by flexing the bottom of the cu
      p. So far I am on my second set of T-88, about my 5th cup, and I have only 
      used a hand full of sticks.- For what it's worth...
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T-88
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 2009
      
      
      I agree with the clear little cups, works great, you just measure out same amount
      of each. If you guys haven't tried the System 3 Clear Coat, it is pretty cool
      as well, but takes a 2 to 1 ratio and that is easy to get with three little
      clear cups. (It is an epoxy varnish, that is totally compatible with T-88 so
      you don't have to leave dry wood where the T-88 will go.)
      
      Having said all that, the clear coat slowed me down as I was working in my garage
      during the winter and it was about 55-60 degrees, so the curing time meant
      that varnishing both my wing panels took forever.
      
      I think I will do the upper wing panels (I am doing an Aerial so it has two sets
      of wings) with one part polyurethane as it would eliminate the mixing and is
      acceptable as a base for the Stewart Systems covering process. Did the clear
      coat as it would work with any of the covering systems.
      
      T-88 works great, so does the clear coat, but both of them smell pretty bad and
      while they will cure at lower temperatures, they cure much slower.
      
      Great posts guys,
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240882#240882
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T-88
From: 
"jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 2009
      
      
      I found a great use for pop sickle sticks. When your covering things and putting
      on the fabric tape, the pinked edges of the tape, when coated with fabric cement
      can feel rough like the edge of a saw blade. After gluing the fabric, but
      before its totally set, you can go over the edges and flatten/smooth them a little
      bit, getting them to stay down and be incredibly smoother.
      
      With the Stewart Systems EkoBond glue, you can iron them at about 250 degrees and
      sort of mold them really flat/smooth, but I don't think your supposed to do
      that with PolyBrush, though the pop sickle stick thing should still work.
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240885#240885
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T-88
From: 
jimd <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 2009
      
      
      I found a great use for pop sickle sticks. When your covering things and putting
      on the fabric tape, the pinked edges of the tape, when coated with fabric cement
      can feel rough like the edge of a saw blade. After gluing the fabric, but
      before its totally set, you can go over the edges and flatten/smooth them a little
      bit, getting them to stay down and be incredibly smoother.
      
      With the Stewart Systems EkoBond glue, you can iron them at about 250 degrees and
      sort of mold them really flat/smooth, but I don't think your supposed to do
      that with PolyBrush, though the pop sickle stick thing should still work.
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240885#240885
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: T-88
From: 
jimd <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: 
Apr 23, 2009
      
      
      I agree with the clear little cups, works great, you just measure out same amount
      of each. If you guys haven't tried the System 3 Clear Coat, it is pretty cool
      as well, but takes a 2 to 1 ratio and that is easy to get with three little
      clear cups. (It is an epoxy varnish, that is totally compatible with T-88 so
      you don't have to leave dry wood where the T-88 will go.)
      
      Having said all that, the clear coat slowed me down as I was working in my garage
      during the winter and it was about 55-60 degrees, so the curing time meant
      that varnishing both my wing panels took forever.
      
      I think I will do the upper wing panels (I am doing an Aerial so it has two sets
      of wings) with one part polyurethane as it would eliminate the mixing and is
      acceptable as a base for the Stewart Systems covering process. Did the clear
      coat as it would work with any of the covering systems.
      
      T-88 works great, so does the clear coat, but both of them smell pretty bad and
      while they will cure at lower temperatures, they cure much slower.
      
      Great posts guys,
      
      Jim
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240882#240882
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 24, 2009
From: 
Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: 
anyone close to San Luis Obispo?
      
      
      Gentlemen,
      
      There's a Piet for sale on barnstormers.com located in San Luis Obispo, 
      CA.  I'm very seriously considering purchasing this plane and am 
      wondering if any of you are close enough to it to do a pre-purchase 
      inspection for me, or can recommend an A&P in the area willing to do the 
      work.  I will be happy to compensate you (or said A&P) fairly, of course.
      
      Unfortunately, I am just outside Chicago, so it's not exactly a quick 
      trip for me.
      
      There's another Piet registered to a gentleman in Arroyo Grande and I've 
      left him a couple of voice mails, but he probably thinks I'm some 
      nutball for calling him.  :-)
      
      In any case, thanks for your help, in advance.  Hope to see you at 
      Brodhead this summer.
      
      Cheers,
      Dan
      
      
      -- 
      Dan Yocum
      Fermilab  630.840.6509
      yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
      Fermilab.  Just zeros and ones.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
painting small numbers
Date: 
Apr 24, 2009
      
      
      Hey,
      
      I'm using dope on my plane and was wondering if I can use enamel for the
      small tail numbers.
      
      I know it'll stick fine, but I'm wondering if it'll flake off over time or
      is it pliable enough to use there.
      
      I know sign painters enamel works, I'm wondering about randolf enamel.
      
      Douwe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 24, 2009
From: 
Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: 
Re: painting small numbers
      
      
      Vinyl adhesives. Services can make whatever you want, and if it 
      doesn't look right, have another iteration made. Cheap!
      
      
      >
      >
      >Hey,
      >
      >I'm using dope on my plane and was wondering if I can use enamel for the
      >small tail numbers.
      >
      >I know it'll stick fine, but I'm wondering if it'll flake off over time or
      >is it pliable enough to use there.
      >
      >I know sign painters enamel works, I'm wondering about randolf enamel.
      >
      >Douwe
      
      -- 
      ---
      
      Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
      Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
      Emory University School of Medicine
      Editor-in-Chief
      Molecular Vision
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Richland, WA Piet builders/pilots
Date: 
Apr 25, 2009
      
      
      Question for all of you good people who might live in the Richland=2C Washi
      ngton area (Tri-Cities) or know about it.  Please email me off list or if y
      ou can comment on the aviation activity in that area=2C I'd appreciate it
      =3B thanks.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      
      Air Camper NX41CC
      
      San Antonio=2C TX
      
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: painting small numbers
From: 
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 25, 2009
      
      
      Hey Douwe,
      
      I'd bet you might have some trouble with enamel over time.  There may be a flex
      agent that you could add though.  If you have a NAPA nearby they may be able
      to help you out.  They used to have a flex agent you could add for painting things
      like vinyl car seats and urethane bumpers.  Might be worth looking into.
      
      It's hard to go wrong with "1 Shot".  You probably know it's a sign painter's paint.
      It works great on dope.  Flexible and adheres really well.  I have a dealer
      near me, if there is some way I might be able to help out with that let me
      know.  A really cool thing is that it comes off with "Easy Off" oven cleaner
      without harming the dope, just in case there is a mistake.  
      
      Don Emch
      NX899DE
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241238#241238
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: 
Re: Richland, WA Piet builders/pilots
Date: 
Apr 25, 2009
      
      When I visited there this time last year there was a lot of aviation 
      activity in the area, for the size of the population.
      Gene
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Oscar Zuniga 
        To: Pietenpol List 
        Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 10:47 AM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: Richland, WA Piet builders/pilots
      
      
        Question for all of you good people who might live in the Richland, 
      Washington area (Tri-Cities) or know about it.  Please email me off list 
      or if you can comment on the aviation activity in that area, I'd 
      appreciate it; thanks.
      
        Oscar Zuniga
        Air Camper NX41CC
        San Antonio, TX
        mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
        website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
      
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
      04/25/09 08:29:00
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
rigging the airplane
Date: 
Apr 25, 2009
      
      
      Wow.  Somebody sprinkled pixie dust on 41CC.  Ever since the annual on it
      =2C I haven't flown anywhere that could be considered a cross-country by an
      y means=2C until today.  Three legs=2C each maybe 25 mi.=2C but it was enou
      gh to show me that the airplane is a lot more stable now.  During the annua
      l=2C I completely re-rigged the tail surfaces and wings in order to install
       proper washers and hardware on all the bolts and clevis pins=2C and the di
      fference is amazing.  It was bumpy=2C gusty=2C and windy today but at 2000'
       at cruise=2C the airplane was almost hands-off.  It was a great flight and
       I made some pretty good landings.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      
      Air Camper NX41CC
      
      San Antonio=2C TX
      
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
Date: 
Apr 26, 2009
      
      
      Thanks for the input, as always.
      
      Don, per your reccomendation, I've used one shot for my large N numbers and
      it is great stuff!
      
      Shot the final colored dope coat yesterday on the fuselage (wings already
      done) and started the stripe, very exciting.  Today I start on the "logo" on
      the side which will be rewarding as it will really start to look like my
      dreams.
      
      Kinda fun to get sidetracked on cosmetic stuff and take a break from
      fabricating hundreds of tidbits.
      
      After this, more tid bits for a while, then sheet metal.  I can see the
      finish line!!
      
      Douwe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Continentals are amazing
Date: 
Apr 26, 2009
      
      Guess I post a similar messege every year.
      I have'nt run my A-65 since Oct.
      Few weeks ago I inspected it, and left it at that.
      Today they were calling for gusty winds of 11mph and up.
      But sitting at the deli, I looked up and saw nothing.
      Decided to go.
      Pulled out my Piet and ,,,,,,,2 shots of primer, mags off,   pulled thru 
      6 blades,    left mag on,   flipped it ,,,and it was 
      running.,,,,running!
      1940's technoligy that won't let you down.
      Did 3 TO&L's to a full stop at three different airports.
      Had to do a go-around cause of the stinking geese on the runway at 
      Aeroflex.
       Looked at the winding stream thru the valley,
      Looked at the Ostrich farm,
      Looked at the rock formation on the mountain behind my house,
      Had to clear the trees at Trinca,    had to slip to the left really hard 
       to mis them .
      Ain't Life Grand!
      was thinking of selling my Piet this year,,,,but I guess I'll keep it.
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
From: 
Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Zero messages??
      
      I sat down to peruse the Piet list this morning with my Dr. Pepper and.....
      no messages!
      -
      I perked up at the thought that everyone is busy either feverishly building
       or doing condition inspections in anticipation of the huge B'head/OSH happ
      enings. Gave me a warm-fuzzy just knowing of the finishing touches being la
      vished on our noble aerocrafts.
      -
      My own Cherry Grove rocket is straining at the chocks as I gaze at it. The 
      longing to waft over the fruited plain is becoming stronger as each day pas
      ses. Heck, I might have to leave early!
      -
      I have a couple of invites to waylay me along the way north this summer whi
      ch might lead to having several other Piets join up for a (small) mass arri
      val at the holy land,er...I mean Brodhead together.
      -
      I am issuing a plea: If you know someone with a Piet in the hangar that is 
      NOT planning to attend, like I do< tease, cajole, shame, embarrass or other
      wise kick them into action! What better occasion to dust off the ol' girl a
      nd regain the old-timey fun of flying to Brodhead? Who knows when the next 
      big milestone will be celebrated? 
      -
      Swine flu and the economy be damned, get those heaps into the air!
      -
      Larry W.- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
Subject: 
Air Speed
      
      Pieters,
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to  
      what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      Corky
      **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
      web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
      (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      
      Hi Corky   The 65 hp 7AC Champ that I fly cruises at about 70 mph on a good
       day.  Ed G.
      
      
      From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
      Date: Tue=2C 28 Apr 2009 12:00:00 -0400
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters=2C
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to w
      hat air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      Corky
      
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the R
      adio Toolbar!
      
      
      _________________________________________________________________
      Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Get 25 GB of free online storage.  
      http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Air Speed
      
      Thanks Ed. I was hoping for a little better kick in the ass than 70.
      Corky
      **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
      web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
      (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower than a
      Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
      
      Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters,
      
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to
      what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
      Corky
      
      
        _____  
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
      <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003>
      the Radio Toolbar!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: 
220lb - passenger
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      
      Group,
      
      Thinking of heading to Brodhead for my first time this year. Hope to get
      my first ride in a Piet. Question is......Can a Piet carry a 220
      joy-rider in the front or do I have to wait until I get mine built and
      sit in the back?
      
      Brian
      SLC, UT
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
Subject: 
220lb - passenger
      
      
      Hey Brian, 
      
      No to be mean but you won't be offered many rides at Brodhead.   Some Piets can
      haul more
      than others like Bill Rewey's Piet as he's got a longer wing than most...and he
      built his light. 
      Some of the Ford Piets are amazing like Ken Perkin's Piet which I've seen haul
      some full-figured
      girls like you and I. 
      
      Sadly I'm limited to carrying only petite passengers due to my weakening A-65 powerplant.
      (new
      rings are in order this spring on 2 cyls) 
      
      Best wishes on getting a ride-- you'll have fun even if you don't but more fun
      if you get to go. 
      
      Mike C. 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Air Speed
      
      Not planning any more Brodhead trips lest it be via American Airlines.  
      Havanna, that's something else.
      Corky 
      **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the 
      web. Get the Radio Toolbar! 
      (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: 220lb - passenger
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Brian,
      Depends how light they built it.
      My last rider was 210#   ( and I'm 225#) no problems except limited sight on 
      my part)
      He wasn't comfortable with his arms inside, so he hung them out like he was 
      in a sidecar!
      Kind of blocked the fwd view.
      Thanks to that instructor that brought the sectional chart up in front of me 
      just before flare, in a Charokee, to make me look out the side window.
      Pics of helping him in, and of yours truely proping
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:49 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: 220lb - passenger
      
      
      >
      > Group,
      >
      > Thinking of heading to Brodhead for my first time this year. Hope to get
      > my first ride in a Piet. Question is......Can a Piet carry a 220
      > joy-rider in the front or do I have to wait until I get mine built and
      > sit in the back?
      >
      > Brian
      > SLC, UT
      >
      >
      > 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Jack,
      Another plea for building light.
      I was flying last weekend.
      At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and 
      indicating mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
      build light.
      build light
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Jack Phillips 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
        Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
        It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower 
      than a Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
         
      
        Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
         
      
        Jack Phillips
      
        Raleigh, NC
      
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
        From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
         
      
        Pieters,
      
        Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as 
      to what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
        Corky
      
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
        Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get 
      the Radio Toolbar!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
      comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Yep, you're right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight your
      Piet achieved.  I've finally moved mine to an airport with a long enough
      runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100' with good approaches.
      My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check them out here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Another plea for building light.
      
      I was flying last weekend.
      
      At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and indicating
      mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
      At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
      
      build light.
      
      build light
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower than a
      Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
      
      Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters,
      
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to
      what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
      Corky
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
      <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003>
      the Radio Toolbar!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      http://forums.matronics.com
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Thanks Jack,
      I'm checking them out right now.
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Jack Phillips 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
        Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
        Yep, you're right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight 
      your Piet achieved.  I've finally moved mine to an airport with a long 
      enough runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100' with good 
      approaches.  My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check 
      them out here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
         
      
        Jack Phillips
      
        NX899JP
      
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
        From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
         
      
        Jack,
      
        Another plea for building light.
      
        I was flying last weekend.
      
        At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and 
      indicating mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
        At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
         
      
        build light.
      
        build light
      
        walt evans
        NX140DL
      
         
      
         
      
          ----- Original Message ----- 
      
          From: Jack Phillips 
      
          To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
          Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
          Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
           
      
          It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little 
      slower than a Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a 
      Pietenpol).
      
           
      
          Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
           
      
          Jack Phillips
      
          Raleigh, NC
      
           
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      
          From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
          Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
          To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
          Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
           
      
          Pieters,
      
          Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea 
      as to what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
          Corky
      
           
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      
          Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. 
      Get the Radio Toolbar!
      
        http://www.matronics.com/contribution   
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
      ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
      ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
      http://www.matronics.com/c  
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
      comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Jack,
      Great vid on Youtube!!
      Wow, our colors are kind of the same ,looking down, the wheels are the 
      same, eyebrows the same, jury struts the same.  We're twins!!!
      Nice vid and nice flight.
      PS what is that water?
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Jack Phillips 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
        Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
        Yep, you're right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight 
      your Piet achieved.  I've finally moved mine to an airport with a long 
      enough runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100' with good 
      approaches.  My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check 
      them out here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
         
      
        Jack Phillips
      
        NX899JP
      
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
        From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
         
      
        Jack,
      
        Another plea for building light.
      
        I was flying last weekend.
      
        At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and 
      indicating mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
        At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
         
      
        build light.
      
        build light
      
        walt evans
        NX140DL
      
         
      
         
      
          ----- Original Message ----- 
      
          From: Jack Phillips 
      
          To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
          Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
          Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
           
      
          It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little 
      slower than a Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a 
      Pietenpol).
      
           
      
          Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
           
      
          Jack Phillips
      
          Raleigh, NC
      
           
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      
          From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
          Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
          To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
          Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
           
      
          Pieters,
      
          Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea 
      as to what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
          Corky
      
           
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      
          Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. 
      Get the Radio Toolbar!
      
        http://www.matronics.com/contribution   
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
      ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
      ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
      http://www.matronics.com/c  
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
      comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Thanks, Walt.
      
      
      That water is Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia - right on the eastern edge of
      the Blue Ridge Mountains.  Karen and I are in the process of building a big
      house there adjacent to the runway, and with a view of the water, which we
      will run as a Bed & Breakfast, catering primarily to pilots flying in to
      visit the lake.  Karen created a website for it - check out:
      www.bedfordlandings.com <http://www.bedfordlandings.com/>  .  A free night's
      stay to anyone who flies a Pietenpol in!  We hope to open the summer of
      2010, but we've got to sell our house in North Carolina first.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:56 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Great vid on Youtube!!
      
      Wow, our colors are kind of the same ,looking down, the wheels are the same,
      eyebrows the same, jury struts the same.  We're twins!!!
      
      Nice vid and nice flight.
      
      PS what is that water?
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Yep, you're right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight your
      Piet achieved.  I've finally moved mine to an airport with a long enough
      runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100' with good approaches.
      My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check them out here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Another plea for building light.
      
      I was flying last weekend.
      
      At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and indicating
      mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
      At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
      
      build light.
      
      build light
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower than a
      Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
      
      Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters,
      
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to
      what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
      Corky
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
      <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003>
      the Radio Toolbar!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      http://forums.matronics.com
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
From: 
"TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: 
Air Speed
      
      Jack:
      
      I just checked out your website and then found you on Google Earth. 
      Looks like I'm going to have to find out how high the mountains are
      between McPherson, KS and Smith Mountain Lake. (In another "two" years
      when the Piet is done.
      
      Tom Stinemetze
      
      
      >>> "Jack Phillips"  4/28/2009 4:32 PM >>>
      
      Thanks, Walt.
      
      That water is Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia  right on the eastern edge
      of the Blue Ridge Mountains.  Karen and I are in the process of building
      a big house there adjacent to the runway, and with a view of the water,
      which we will run as a Bed & Breakfast, catering primarily to pilots
      flying in to visit the lake.  Karen created a website for it  check
      out:  www.bedfordlandings.com ( http://www.bedfordlandings.com/ ) .  A
      free nights stay to anyone who flies a Pietenpol in!  We hope to open
      the summer of 2010, but weve got to sell our house in North Carolina
      first.
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      
      
      From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:56 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Great vid on Youtube!!
      
      Wow, our colors are kind of the same ,looking down, the wheels are the
      same, eyebrows the same, jury struts the same.  We're twins!!!
      
      Nice vid and nice flight.
      
      PS what is that water?
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From:Jack Phillips ( mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net ) 
      
      To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
      Sent:Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
      
      Subject:RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Yep, youre right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight
      your Piet achieved.  Ive finally moved mine to an airport with a long
      enough runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100 with good
      approaches.  My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check
      them out here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      
      
      From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Another plea for building light.
      
      I was flying last weekend.
      
      At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and
      indicating mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
      At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
      
      build light.
      
      build light
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From:Jack Phillips ( mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net ) 
      
      To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
      Sent:Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
      Subject:RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Its been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower
      than a Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
      Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
      Jack Phillips
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
      From:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com 
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters,
      
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as
      to what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
      Corky
      
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
      the Radio Toolbar (
      http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003
      )!  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black; Forums!http://www.matronics.com/contribution  
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
       http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
      Forums!http://forums.matronics.com style="
      font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
      support!http://www.matronics.com/contribution  
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      style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black;="================http://forums.matronics.com
      style=" font-size:10.0pt;color:black;="================http://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
From: 
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Bedfordlandings
      
      
      Jack, that B&B idea is so awesome! How cool is THAT going to be?! Congrats!
      - If the offer still stands for the one free night when I get my Piet. do
      ne, I'm IN!
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      I can tell you exactly how high they are, since I fly over them fairly
      regularly in my RV-4, and a few times in the Pietenpol.  The highest peaks
      due west of Smith Mountain Lake are about 5700'.  If you drop a bit further
      south into North Carolina, you can find peaks up to 6684' (Mount Mitchell).
      This is about 6,000' above the surrounding terrain.  Most of the mountains
      on my route to Brodhead are around 4500' or less.
      
      
      The terrain immediately west of Smith Mountain Lake, south of Roanoke, VA is
      some of the most rugged terrain I've ever flown over.  Not a good place for
      a forced landing, but by going a bit north or a bit south, the terrain is
      much friendlier.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
      STINEMETZE
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:54 PM
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack:
      
      
      I just checked out your website and then found you on Google Earth.  Looks
      like I'm going to have to find out how high the mountains are between
      McPherson, KS and Smith Mountain Lake. (In another "two" years when the Piet
      is done.
      
      
      Tom Stinemetze
      
      
      >>> "Jack Phillips"  4/28/2009 4:32 PM >>>
      
      Thanks, Walt.
      
      
      That water is Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia - right on the eastern edge of
      the Blue Ridge Mountains.  Karen and I are in the process of building a big
      house there adjacent to the runway, and with a view of the water, which we
      will run as a Bed & Breakfast, catering primarily to pilots flying in to
      visit the lake.  Karen created a website for it - check out:
      www.bedfordlandings.com <http://www.bedfordlandings.com/>  .  A free night's
      stay to anyone who flies a Pietenpol in!  We hope to open the summer of
      2010, but we've got to sell our house in North Carolina first.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:56 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Great vid on Youtube!!
      
      Wow, our colors are kind of the same ,looking down, the wheels are the same,
      eyebrows the same, jury struts the same.  We're twins!!!
      
      Nice vid and nice flight.
      
      PS what is that water?
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Yep, you're right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight your
      Piet achieved.  I've finally moved mine to an airport with a long enough
      runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100' with good approaches.
      My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check them out here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Another plea for building light.
      
      I was flying last weekend.
      
      At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and indicating
      mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
      At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
      
      build light.
      
      build light
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower than a
      Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
      
      Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters,
      
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to
      what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
      Corky
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
      <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003>
      the Radio Toolbar!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      http://forums.matronics.com
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      ics.com
      .matronics.com/contribution
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      Jack,
      
      
      Best wishes to you and that particularly great dream! I hope I am the first
      to fly out from California to cash in on that free night.
      
      
      Gary Boothe
      
      Cool, Ca.
      
      Pietenpol
      
      WW Corvair Conversion
      
      Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
      
      (13 ribs down.)
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
      Phillips
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:32 PM
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Thanks, Walt.
      
      
      That water is Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia - right on the eastern edge of
      the Blue Ridge Mountains.  Karen and I are in the process of building a big
      house there adjacent to the runway, and with a view of the water, which we
      will run as a Bed & Breakfast, catering primarily to pilots flying in to
      visit the lake.  Karen created a website for it - check out:
      www.bedfordlandings.com <http://www.bedfordlandings.com/>  .  A free night's
      stay to anyone who flies a Pietenpol in!  We hope to open the summer of
      2010, but we've got to sell our house in North Carolina first.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:56 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Great vid on Youtube!!
      
      Wow, our colors are kind of the same ,looking down, the wheels are the same,
      eyebrows the same, jury struts the same.  We're twins!!!
      
      Nice vid and nice flight.
      
      PS what is that water?
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:00 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Yep, you're right about that Walt.  I envy you with the light weight your
      Piet achieved.  I've finally moved mine to an airport with a long enough
      runway that I can comfortably give rides in it.  3100' with good approaches.
      My wife shot some videos and put them on YouTube.  Check them out here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnb6y74I3nw 
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 3:51 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Jack,
      
      Another plea for building light.
      
      I was flying last weekend.
      
      At 2150 rpm on an A-65, I dropped the nose to get "into step" and indicating
      mid 80's.  (checked with a GPS)
      
      At full throttle, I'm over 90  (MPH not age  :^)       )
      
      
      build light.
      
      build light
      
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>  Phillips 
      
      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:39 PM
      
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      It's been a long time, Corky, but as I recall, it was a little slower than a
      Cub, indicating about 70 mph (still faster than a Pietenpol).
      
      
      Good luck with it.  Will you fly it to Brodhead this year?
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      Isablcorky(at)aol.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:00 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Air Speed
      
      
      Pieters,
      
      Anyone familiar enough with the Aeronca 65 TAC to give me some idea as to
      what air speed I might expect solo? Thanks
      
      Corky
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
      <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003>
      the Radio Toolbar!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      http://forums.matronics.com
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      
      http://forums.matronics.com
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Zero messages??
From: 
"TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      
      Yeah.. and if they may be too lazy to fly their Piet to brodhead. I am more than
      willing to excersize their machine on their behalf and join the gaggle of thunder
      into Brodhead. I'm in Dallas.. even willing to jumpseat to where ever their
      Piet awaits.. heh heh
      
      *Just received my plans and ordered some wood from AircraftSpruce*
      
      Larry (another larry.. Dallas)
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241768#241768
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Brodhead Dream'n.......The Great Waldo Pepper
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      "What happens if I don't like it????"..............................."If you really
      hate it, I'll give you a second ride free"
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: 
carryons
Date: 
Apr 28, 2009
      
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UejelYnVI3U&NR=1
      
      
      > We have carryons were I live, too; usually pecking away at something dead 
      > in
      > the middle of the road....
      >
      > Gary Boothe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
220 lb - passenger
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      
      Steve is not the heaviest passenger who has flown with me=2C and I weigh pr
      obably 155 in flying trim.  I took a fellow up who probably weighed 220 and
       it was a warm day=2C gusty winds=2C and the airplane struggled into the ai
      r but we did OK.  I expect the airplane to be a much more solid climber whe
      n I hang the A75 on it=2C but it's not bad with the 65 on it.  Solo=2C it's
       a rocket.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Air Speed
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      
      Regarding airspeeds=2C and to more directly answer Corky's question about w
      hat cruise airspeed he can expect from his L-3 lookalike=2C this page: http
      ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronca_L-3 shows a cruise speed of 79 MPH with th
      e A65-8 but who knows if that's a real number or not.  The airplane that Co
      rky built himself=2C NX41CC=2C will cruise all day at 70 MPH indicated airs
      peed with cruise RPM set on the A65.  It is also very easy to hit redline i
      n the airplane by dropping the nose=2C but equally easy to scrub off that a
      irspeed by raising the nose or pulling power.  I have not tried any spot la
      nding contests but it would seem to me that the Piet would be very responsi
      ve in that kind of contest=2C more so than Cubs or other airplanes with mor
      e wing and more tendency to float in ground effect.  The Piet is not much o
      f a floater if you nail the airspeed.
      
      I really learned a great deal from Mike Cuy's analysis of airspeed control 
      and maybe he will re-post what he said about approach airspeed before.  Som
      ething like 57 is too hot=2C 55 is about right=2C and 50 will put you right
       on the numbers but you'd better hold that airspeed perfectly or you'll mus
      h it in and bounce or else not make the threshold.  When I first started fl
      ying my Piet I was using 60 as a final approach speed due to all of the war
      nings about the power-off sink rate=2C but now that I know the airplane I u
      se the brick-like sink rate to my advantage and I like the ability to make 
      short=2C slow landings fully controlled.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Firewall Construction
From: 
"Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      
      For those of you who built your Piet with a Corvair or Continental:  How did you
      fashion your firewall?  Did you use 1/8 or 1/4 plywood?  The ash cross beam,
      left on or taken off?  Also the tray, did you build it in, or leave it off? 
      The plans are a bit ambiguous on this part of the fuselage.  Thanks.
      
      Paul
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241896#241896
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
From: 
Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction
      
      I started out planning to use the Corvair and added the ash cross-member, b
      ecause the Pietenpol design motor mount attaches to it.- I used a 1/8 in 
      ply firewall, because it gets covered with metal anyway.- I don't think y
      ou will need the tray if you aren't using a Model A
      -
      Ben Charvet
      covering fuselage, wings covered and painted
      
      --- On Wed, 4/29/09, Paul N. Peckham  wrote:
      
      From: Paul N. Peckham <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Construction
      Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 9:26 AM
      
      
      
      For those of you who built your Piet with a Corvair or Continental:  How di
      d
      you fashion your firewall?  Did you use 1/8 or 1/4 plywood?  The ash cross 
      beam,
      left on or taken off?  Also the tray, did you build it in, or leave it off?
        The
      plans are a bit ambiguous on this part of the fuselage.  Thanks.
      
      Paul
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241896#241896
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      
      I built a corvair style bed mount for my Franklin and did the same as Ben. 
      1/8" ply with the ash crossmember and no tray. The ash crossmember seems to
       add a lot of strength to the front of the fuselage but I'm not sure that t
      he guys building for a Continental put one in. 
      
       Ed G.
      
      
      Date: Wed=2C 29 Apr 2009 07:55:59 -0700
      From: bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Construction
      
      
      I started out planning to use the Corvair and added the ash cross-member=2C
       because the Pietenpol design motor mount attaches to it.  I used a 1/8 in 
      ply firewall=2C because it gets covered with metal anyway.  I don't think y
      ou will need the tray if you aren't using a Model A
      
      Ben Charvet
      covering fuselage=2C wings covered and painted
      
      --- On Wed=2C 4/29/09=2C Paul N. Peckham  wrote:
      
      From: Paul N. Peckham <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Construction
      Date: Wednesday=2C April 29=2C 2009=2C 9:26 AM
      
      
      
      For those of you who built your Piet with a Corvair or Continental:  How di
      d
      you fashion your firewall?  Did you use 1/8 or 1/4 plywood?  The ash cross 
      beam=2C
      left on or taken off?  Also the tray=2C did you build it in=2C or leave it 
      off?  The
      plans are a bit ambiguous on this part of the fuselage.  Thanks.
      
      Paul
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241896#241896
      
      
      _________________________________________________________________
      Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Get 25 GB of free online storage.  
      http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
Subject: 
a man after Corky's heart
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
a man after Corky's heart
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      Too much time on my hands, I guess.
      Ping pong balls of that era were 38mm diameter (1.5".  Modern balls are 40mm
      or 1.57")
      10,000 of them would give about 206 lbs of displacement in sea water, not
      enough to keep an engine afloat, let alone an entire water-logged airplane.
      Corky's milk jug idea was a lot better.
      Mike Hardaway
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
      D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
      Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:20 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: a man after Corky's heart
      
      
       [snipped for brevity]
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      Paul,
      Built right to plans, with the ash and tray.  Put a 14 gallon fuel tank in 
      there.
      What you may want to think of , is I cut a round hole in the front plywood, 
      in the lower section to be able to reach into the nose to add hardware,fuel 
      fittings, etc.
      There is no way to reach from the fwd cockpit.
      see pic.
      Hole off to the left is where cabin heat duct goes.
      And holes below is gascolator mount screw holes.
      The metal firewall covers it all.
      Think minimum thickness is .018"
      NO aluminum
      walt evans
      NX140DL
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:26 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Firewall Construction
      
      
      > 
      >
      > For those of you who built your Piet with a Corvair or Continental:  How 
      > did you fashion your firewall?  Did you use 1/8 or 1/4 plywood?  The ash 
      > cross beam, left on or taken off?  Also the tray, did you build it in, or 
      > leave it off?  The plans are a bit ambiguous on this part of the fuselage. 
      > Thanks.
      >
      > Paul
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241896#241896
      >
      >
      > 
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction
From: 
"Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      
      Man, you guys are a hoot!  Let's see now.........we've gone from firewall construction
      to ash trays.  Now the ash tray must be where you put the smoke system
      on a Piet??!!  That's what makes this list so great.  You get answers to your
      questions and then some.  Thanks guys.
      
      Paul
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241972#241972
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction
From: 
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
      
      I am building with a Corvair. Don't see a need for the tray but the ash
      cross member does add a lot of strength, my fuel tank hangs from it and its
      a perfect place to bolt the battery holder.
      
      Rick
      
      On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:26 AM, Paul N. Peckham
      wrote:
      
      > peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
      >
      > For those of you who built your Piet with a Corvair or Continental:  How
      > did you fashion your firewall?  Did you use 1/8 or 1/4 plywood?  The ash
      > cross beam, left on or taken off?  Also the tray, did you build it in, or
      > leave it off?  The plans are a bit ambiguous on this part of the fuselage.
      >  Thanks.
      >
      > Paul
      >
      >
      > Read this topic online here:
      >
      > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241896#241896
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: 
Jack's first mountain landing on Mt Mitchell
Date: 
Apr 29, 2009
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      Paul=3B
      
      
      You can see a couple of pix of how the firewall and framing are constructed
       on 41CC here:
      
      http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P4070001.JPG and
      
      http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P3070009.JPG
      
      
      On the backside of the stainless firewall=2C only the curved upper portion 
      has plywood behind it.  Also note that the firewall is constructed in two p
      ieces=2C which allows removing the lower section for access to the front ru
      dder pedals and other things in the front cockpit.  Just don't do what I di
      d and forget that the lower engine mount points bolt through the firewall a
      nd trap the section of firewall that is supposed to be removable =3Bo)
      
      
      No ashtrays in 41CC but the front cockpit has an outside air temp gauge.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      PS to that last post=2C I learned another lesson while rebuilding the firew
      all and front framing on 41CC.  If you have your fuel tank up in the front
      =2C make sure you route any cables=2C controls=2C and wiring close enough t
      o the fuselage sides to get them past the fuel tank.  Working up in the wid
      e-open front area without the fuel tank installed=2C I thought I had a huge
       luxurious open space available to route wires and cables to the engine com
      partment=2C forgetting about the fuel tank.
      
      
      Tach cables in particular do not like to flex sharply.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction
From: 
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
      
      Oscar, did you put any fiberfrax behind your stainless? I think the Bengelis
      books say you only need one or the other.
      
      Rick
      
      On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Oscar Zuniga  wrote:
      
      >  Paul;
      >
      > You can see a couple of pix of how the firewall and framing are constructed
      > on 41CC here:
      > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P4070001.JPG and
      > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P3070009.JPG
      >
      > On the backside of the stainless firewall, only the curved upper portion
      > has plywood behind it.  Also note that the firewall is constructed in two
      > pieces, which allows removing the lower section for access to the front
      > rudder pedals and other things in the front cockpit.  Just don't do what I
      > did and forget that the lower engine mount points bolt through the firewall
      > and trap the section of firewall that is supposed to be removable ;o)
      >
      > No ashtrays in 41CC but the front cockpit has an outside air temp gauge.
      >
      > Oscar Zuniga
      > Air Camper NX41CC
      > San Antonio, TX
      > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      >
      >
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      No fiberfrax behind the stainless on my firewall.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      No fiberfrax behind the stainless on my firewall.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
From: 
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction, fuse tank
      
      
      One idea I have seen for routing a tach cable is to run it right through th
      e fuel tank.- When you build the tank you simply build it with an aluminu
      m tube running through the front-back of the tank, (it-stays out of the f
      uel).- Not sure how nessasary it is to have a streight run but the plans 
      for my Jungster show a 1 inch tube in the tank for the tach.
      -
      Just an Idea,
      Shad=0A=0A=0A      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Firewall Construction
From: 
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
      
      Oscar, did you put any fiberfrax behind your stainless? I think the Bengelis
      books say you only need one or the other.
      
      Rick
      
      On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Oscar Zuniga  wrote:
      
      >  Paul;
      >
      > You can see a couple of pix of how the firewall and framing are constructed
      > on 41CC here:
      > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P4070001.JPG and
      > http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P3070009.JPG
      >
      > On the backside of the stainless firewall, only the curved upper portion
      > has plywood behind it.  Also note that the firewall is constructed in two
      > pieces, which allows removing the lower section for access to the front
      > rudder pedals and other things in the front cockpit.  Just don't do what I
      > did and forget that the lower engine mount points bolt through the firewall
      > and trap the section of firewall that is supposed to be removable ;o)
      >
      > No ashtrays in 41CC but the front cockpit has an outside air temp gauge.
      >
      > Oscar Zuniga
      > Air Camper NX41CC
      > San Antonio, TX
      > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      >
      >
      > *
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction, fuse tank
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      Boy=2C Shad- a tube through the fuel tank would make my installation just d
      andy.  The tach cable has to offset=2C as you can see from the photo taken 
      directly above my firewall=2C you can see the amount of offset that could b
      e avoided.  Photo at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P310002.JPG
      
      
      Actually=2C if I were to install a tube through the tank I think I'd put it
       an angle =3Bo)  My tach cable is stretched to its max limits and I really 
      need to get a longer one=2C but it would have to be a custom length.  I thi
      nk mine is a standard 48" long one and 60" is too long so I'd need a custom
       one.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Mountain Flying
From: 
"Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      Hi Gang:
      If any one is concerned about getting over a mountain 8000 ft. or more, try this
      combination that I tried a few years ago. Altitude wasn't any problem but  fuel
      consumption was. That is a 145 plus HP Warner, when it was installed I never
      changed wing position, and it weighted 50 lbs more than my Ford. Flew strong
      and fast.
      Pieti Lowell
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242161#242161
      
      
      Attachments: 
      
      http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc003551_918.jpg
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Firewall Construction, fuse tank
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      Oops... I guess that last weblink should have been
      http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P3170002.JPG
      
      
      The tach cable is the heavy black one feeding out the back of the engine.
      
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: painting small numbers
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      Kind of late noticing/responding to this one, but I have always painted 
      small numbers with an enamel spray can.  As long as the numbers are 
      going to be a generic color, like white or black, I see no reason why 
      not.  The spray can numbers have been on my Travel Air rudder for nearly 
      twenty years (cotton and dope) and is still as flexible as the day I 
      painted it.  No cracking or peeling.  I have done this on a number of 
      fabric aircraft with both dope and poly spray and never had a problem.
      
      Gene
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Douwe Blumberg<mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> 
        To: pietenpolgroup 
        Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 6:35 PM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: painting small numbers
      
      
      >
      
        Hey,
      
        I'm using dope on my plane and was wondering if I can use enamel for 
      the
        small tail numbers.
      
        I know it'll stick fine, but I'm wondering if it'll flake off over 
      time or
        is it pliable enough to use there.
      
        I know sign painters enamel works, I'm wondering about randolf enamel.
      
        Douwe
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      on>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
cowling pattern material
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      I'm getting ready to start the cowlings.  Anybody have some recommendations
      for good types and sources of appropriate cardboard?
      
      Thanks,
      
      Douw
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: cowling pattern material
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      the thing I have found that works best is called "chipboard" and it is 
      the stuff that printing companies use to make the back on notepads and 
      legal pads.  it is stiff enough to hold a curve without buckling, but 
      not too stiff.  I used to find it at a stationery shop in sheets 
      something like 24x30, and when taped together with packing tape, could 
      be made into large patterns without folding on the joints.
      
      Now, can I find the stuff around Falls Church where I live now?  H#^L 
      NO!
      
      Gene
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Douwe Blumberg<mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> 
        To: pietenpolgroup 
        Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:24 PM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling pattern material
      
      
      >
      
        I'm getting ready to start the cowlings.  Anybody have some 
      recommendations
        for good types and sources of appropriate cardboard?
      
        Thanks,
      
        Douw
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      on>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: cowling pattern material
From: 
"Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      Gene,
      
      How is your project coming along?  Any pictures?
      
      Don Emch
      NX899DE
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242201#242201
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
Subject: 
Re: cowling pattern material
From: 
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
      
      Poster board at WalMart worked for me.
      
      rh
      
      
      On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Douwe Blumberg  wrote:
      
      > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
      >
      > I'm getting ready to start the cowlings.  Anybody have some recommendations
      > for good types and sources of appropriate cardboard?
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Douw
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
cowling pattern material
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      
      I used matt board from an art supply store - the stuff they use to matt
      picture frames.  Good and stiff, and available in bigger sizes than poster
      board.
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
      Blumberg
      Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:25 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling pattern material
      
      
      
      I'm getting ready to start the cowlings.  Anybody have some recommendations
      for good types and sources of appropriate cardboard?
      
      Thanks,
      
      Douw
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
From: 
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
WARNING! CARB HEAT BOXES FROM A.S.S.
      
      Group, Anyone who has a Aircraft Spruce A.S.- carb heat box look out!- 
      While Starting the oil change, Annual cond. inspection on the piet (179 hrs
       tt)I noticed the carb heat box is broken.- The weld, or braze joint? ( n
      ot sure what the hell it is?) that holds the carb heat box to the carb is b
      roke clean at the weld joint.- It looks like the round tube is welded to 
      a flange and ground flat for the gasket, and at the box joint it is spot we
      lded.-- Any way, look out for a failed joint in the welding, i noticed 
      this by grabing the carb heat box and wiggling it, the box litterally came 
      off in my hand, only held on by the carb heat control cable and exaust scat
       hose!- I will try to contact A.S.S. tommorow after talking to Dad (he bo
      ught it from them) and see if they will make it right, my guess probbably n
      ot, made in china is my guess.- For all of you who have bought one alread
      y, just weld the joint where the carb attatch flange tube meets the heat
       box, and weld around the circumfrence and you should be OK.- Comparing t
      he "Hombuilder's Special" to an older heat box off of a Piper Colt, it look
      s like they took all the short cuts on quality and safty/ dependability, an
      d craftmenship.- I hope this saves someone's ass before it gets expensive
      .- This particular heat box is one for the Marvel Schebler MA3SPA carb, s
      imilar if not identical to a c-,85, 0-200.- With a Corvair, carb heat can
       be exspecially important.- Please pass this on to fellow homebuilders as
       it might save there bacon.
      -
      Shad
      -
      Hope to be flying in 2 weeks or less!=0A=0A=0A      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: 
Re: cowling pattern material
Date: 
Apr 30, 2009
      
      Yes and in various colours too if you so desire.
      Standard size is 32" X 40".
      
      I am in the throws of preliminary cowling design for
      my newly acquired O-290.
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
      Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 6:59 PM
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling pattern material
      
      
      > 
      >
      > I used matt board from an art supply store - the stuff they use to matt
      > picture frames.  Good and stiff, and available in bigger sizes than poster
      > board.
      >
      > Jack Phillips
      > NX899JP
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
      > Blumberg
      > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:25 PM
      > To: pietenpolgroup
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling pattern material
      >
      > 
      >
      > I'm getting ready to start the cowlings.  Anybody have some 
      > recommendations
      > for good types and sources of appropriate cardboard?
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Douw
      >
      >
      
      
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      
      
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      17:53:00
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
May 01, 2009
Subject: 
6 Piet builder article from May 2009 Sport Aviation link
      
      
      http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/200905/
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
May 01, 2009
Subject: 
arrival/departure NOTAM now available for Oshkosh fly-in
      participants
      
      
      If you're planning on flying into Oshkosh this is a must-print and read, re
      -read, re-read.
      
      Tell you the truth I found it easier to fly into Oshkosh than I have flying
       into many
      pancake breakfast fly-in's.   Flying into Oshkosh is a very structured,  or
      derly and organized
      experience but at the local events you have everyone flying different patte
      rns, some make huge,
       long, unnecessarily airline-like approaches and doing all sorts of things 
      that Oshkosh doesn't tolerate.
      
      Mike C.
      
      download entire NOTAM free:    http://www.airventure.org/news/2009/090430_n
      otam.html
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"GR Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: 
Re Down thrust
Date: 
May 01, 2009
      
      I am fitting an 0200 engine & using PFA (UK) approved plans for the
      engine mount.
      
      It calls for both Side thrust & Down thrust
      
      Have many of you used these for your Continental installations?
      
      Thanks & regards Graham Hewitt
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
cowling pattern material
Date: 
May 01, 2009
      
      
      Being in the engineering business all my life=2C I've never had a shortage 
      of cardboard pattern material.  Every pack of blueprint paper (precut sheet
      s) comes with a cardboart sheet on each side of the blueprint paper.  Most 
      of the drawings we work with are 24x36 so there are generous sized pieces t
      o work with.  I've used it to make templates for just about every custom-sh
      aped piece on my Flying Squirrel.
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
progress
From: 
"skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: 
May 01, 2009
      
      
      Well I have enjoyed reading the posts as usual on progress and it finally seems
      I'm starting to make some. I got the fuselage painted and today bolted the stabilizers
      on it. hopefully tomorrow I'll get time to get the tail-brace wires
      rigged and possibly start figuring out just where to come through the fabric with
      the control cables.that looks like it could be a challenge to get them all
      through without having to add some patches but boy it will be fun to see the
      tail surfaces done and operating! then i can start moving forward as time permits.
      looks to be a busy summer and I'll be working around Kansas quite a bit this
      summer but when i come home for the weekends I sure hope i can do something
      on it each time. Raymond
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242357#242357
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: 
Re: WARNING! CARB HEAT BOXES FROM A.S.S.
Date: 
May 02, 2009
      
      I have a surplus heat box for the same carb which I will sell for the 
      best offer. I'll ship and if you don't like it you ship it back--Jim 
      Lagowski    jimdeb(at)charter.net
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: shad bell 
        To: Pietenpol Discussion 
        Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 1:32 AM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: WARNING! CARB HEAT BOXES FROM A.S.S.
      
      
              Group, Anyone who has a Aircraft Spruce A.S.  carb heat box look 
      out!  While Starting the oil change, Annual cond. inspection on the piet 
      (179 hrs tt)I noticed the carb heat box is broken.  The weld, or braze 
      joint? ( not sure what the hell it is?) that holds the carb heat box to 
      the carb is broke clean at the weld joint.  It looks like the round tube 
      is welded to a flange and ground flat for the gasket, and at the box 
      joint it is spot welded.   Any way, look out for a failed joint in the 
      welding, i noticed this by grabing the carb heat box and wiggling it, 
      the box litterally came off in my hand, only held on by the carb heat 
      control cable and exaust scat hose!  I will try to contact A.S.S. 
      tommorow after talking to Dad (he bought it from them) and see if they 
      will make it right, my guess probbably not, made in china is my guess.  
      For all of you who have bought one already, just weld the joint where 
      the carb attatch flange tube meets the heat box, and weld around the 
      circumfrence and you should be OK.  Comparing the "Hombuilder's Special" 
      to an older heat box off of a Piper Colt, it looks like they took all 
      the short cuts on quality and safty/ dependability, and craftmenship.  I 
      hope this saves someone's ass before it gets expensive.  This particular 
      heat box is one for the Marvel Schebler MA3SPA carb, similar if not 
      identical to a c-,85, 0-200.  With a Corvair, carb heat can be 
      exspecially important.  Please pass this on to fellow homebuilders as it 
      might save there bacon.
      
              Shad
      
              Hope to be flying in 2 weeks or less! 
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
      
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
      04/30/09 17:53:00
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
New to Piet's with Questions please
From: 
"Codeseven" <mikedoloresa(at)att.net>
Date: 
May 02, 2009
      
      
      Hello everyone,
      
      The Pietenpol is a favorite of mine that I have pondered building over the past
      few years. I've been a regular at Oshkosh and last year I saw a beautiful red
      Pietenpol powered by a Rotec radial that really peaked my interest in this great
      little aircraft. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.
      
      First, if I built a Piet in my garage I would like to be able to trailor it to
      the airport for awhile at least until I could get a hanger (which as you may know
      are scarce and expensive here in So Cal).
      
      My question is, is there an option for a removable or folding wing(s)? 
      
      
      Second, I have a keen interest in welding and would like very much to build a steel
      tube fuse.
      
      My question is, there seems to be several variants of the original Pietenpol. Do
      most plans for the Piet include an option for a steel tube fuse?
      
      Thanks
      
      
      Mike
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242435#242435
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
tailwheel/skid bracket
Date: 
May 02, 2009
      
      
      The rear tailwheel/skid bracket, the one that attaches to the tailpost of
      the fuselage and holds the socket for the spring, has four holes in the
      bottom.  I can get bolts in the front two holes and get the nuts on the
      inside, but how in the heck do you get the nuts inside for the rear two
      holes.  They are just beneath where the diagonal joins the bottom longeron
      and tailpost and there is almost no room.
      
      Plans seem to show bolts, but omit anything inside.
      
      Did you guys bolt them or are screws supposed to go here?
      
      Wondering if anyone else has had this dilemma.
      
      Douwe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: tailwheel/skid bracket
Date: 
May 02, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      Douwe,
      
      I just used four PK screws of sufficient length. In my estimation, there will be
      almost no sideload on this bracket, so that should be sufficient.
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL
      
      Fuselage covered, and all control and tail surfaces. On to the Wing!? Stewart System
      is really fast and easy.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: New to Piet's with Questions please
Date: 
May 02, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      Mike,
      
      Welcome to the list. That red Pietenpol at Oshkosh with the Rotec was probably
      my neighbor's Pober Jr. Ace. To my knowledge, only one Piet has a Rotec and that
      is Dick Navatril in Minnesota. Building a Piet is El mucho fun!!
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL 
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Codeseven <mikedoloresa(at)att.net>
      Sent: Sat, 2 May 2009 4:32 pm
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to Piet's with Questions please
      
      
      Hello everyone,
      
      The Pietenpol is a favorite of mine that I have pondered building over the past
      
      few years. I've been a regular at Oshkosh and last year I saw a beautiful red 
      Pietenpol powered by a Rotec radial that really peaked my interest in this great
      
      little aircraft. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.
      
      First, if I built a Piet in my garage I would like to be able to trailor it to
      
      the airport for awhile at least until I could get a hanger (which as you may 
      know are scarce and expensive here in So Cal).
      
      My question is, is there an option for a removable or folding wing(s)? 
      
      
      Second, I have a keen interest in welding and would like very much to build a 
      steel tube fuse.
      
      My question is, there seems to be several variants of the original Pietenpol. Do
      
      most plans for the Piet include an option for a steel tube fuse?
      
      Thanks
      
      
      Mike
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242435#242435
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
New to Piet's with Questions please
Date: 
May 02, 2009
      
      
      Hi Mike,
      
      Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols!  I would guess the rotec
      radial powered Pietenepol you saw is Dick Navratil's.  He was on the cover
      of Sport Aviation with it a couple of years ago, although it is more of a
      natural wood color than red.
      
      I don't know of an option for folding wings for a Pietenpol.  With the three
      piece wing, the outer panels are removable, but it is a pain in the butt
      that takes at least two people at least an hour to do.  It would really put
      a damper on my flying if I knew I had to do that before and after each
      flight.
      
      If you buy the plans set from Andrew Pietenpol (Bernard Pietenpol's
      grandson) I believe they include a set of plans for a welded steel tube
      fuselage.  Check with him before you buy.
      
      I would recommend you come a few days early for Oshkosh and visit the annual
      Pietenpol Fly-In at Brodhead Wisconsin the weekend before Oshkosh.  There
      you will see and learn everything about Pietenpols you could ever want to
      know.  I also recommend a couple of items that you should purchase before
      really digging into this:
      
      1.  The set of four Tony Bingelis books on sportplane construction:  The
      Sportplane Builder, Sportplane Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward and
      Tony Bingelis on Engines.  These books will answer 90% of the questions you
      will have - this forum can answer the rest.
      
      2.  The Video tape that Mike Cuy produced about building and flying his
      Pietenpol.  In addition to a welath of information, there is a large section
      on flying that is just good inspiration to get you over the rough spots in
      building.  You can find a link to this on Glenn Thomas's website:
      http://www.flyingwood.com/
      
      Good Luck and Have Fun.  It's a Great Airplane!
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Codeseven
      Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:32 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: New to Piet's with Questions please
      
      
      Hello everyone,
      
      The Pietenpol is a favorite of mine that I have pondered building over the
      past few years. I've been a regular at Oshkosh and last year I saw a
      beautiful red Pietenpol powered by a Rotec radial that really peaked my
      interest in this great little aircraft. I have a couple of questions if you
      don't mind.
      
      First, if I built a Piet in my garage I would like to be able to trailor it
      to the airport for awhile at least until I could get a hanger (which as you
      may know are scarce and expensive here in So Cal).
      
      My question is, is there an option for a removable or folding wing(s)?
      
      
      Second, I have a keen interest in welding and would like very much to build
      a steel tube fuse.
      
      My question is, there seems to be several variants of the original
      Pietenpol. Do most plans for the Piet include an option for a steel tube
      fuse?
      
      Thanks
      
      
      Mike
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242435#242435
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: New to Piet's with Questions please
From: 
"Codeseven" <mikedoloresa(at)att.net>
Date: 
May 02, 2009
      
      
      Hi Dan, 
      
      I think your right! I Google'd Pober Jr Ace and found the plane I had seen (gee,
      never did find it when I searched Pietenpols!:) I saw it in flight and assumed
      it was a radial engined Pietenpol! If your neighbor is Tim Gallagher then it
      was indeed his aircraft, very nice.
      
      http://www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/TimG.htm
      
      
      Hi Jack,
      
      Thanks for all the info. I think your right, putting the wings on/off everytime
      would become a chore and the Piet is indeed a great little aircraft.
      
      Thanks for the invite to the Fly-In at Brodhead you just might see me there.
      
      
      Mike
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242453#242453
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 02, 2009
From: 
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: WARNING! CARB HEAT BOXES FROM A.S.S.
      
      
      Jim, Thanks for the offer.- I think we will try to weld this one first, t
      hen if all else fails I might be offering on your surpluss box.- The bigg
      est pain in the a## is that flying season is here and the flying machine is
       broke.- I guess that is the price of flying, work on them 2 hrs and fly 
      them for 1.- I just need to get the annual done in March, instead of May 
      next year.
      -
      Shad in soggy Central Ohio=0A=0A=0A      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 02, 2009
Subject: 
Re: New to Piet's with Questions please
From: 
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
      
      Hello Mike,
      
      I second Jack's statement: if you want to build a Piet, come to the fly-in
      at Brodhead...and while your at it head on up to Oshkosh.
      
      Folding wings (to my knowledge) have never been done. Per Mike Cuy's comment
      in the archives: "Folding wings have been discussed ad nauseum on the list
      in years past". Check out: http://www.matronics.com/search/
      
      Pick "Pietenpol" from the drop down menu, and read the instructions on how
      to best format your search.
      
      As far as steel tube fuselages go, they are in the plans that you get from
      the Pietenpol family. However, the steel tube fuselage shown is for the
      "short" fuselage. This is the fuselage length from the original 1933
      "Improved Air Camper" plans. There is also a "long" fuselage that was
      developed for usage of the Continental/Corvair engines. Both the "short"
      steel tube fuselage and the "long" wood fuselage drawings are included in
      the supplemental plans that you can buy from the Pietenpol family. You can
      find the merits of both fuse lengths discussed ad nauseum in the archives.
      
      When it comes to a "long" steel tube fuselage....there is no plan sheet for
      that from the family. Roman Bukolt has a Continental powered steel tube
      fuselage Pietenpol. I don't know if it is the long or short fuse. I believe
      Roman monitors the list, so maybe he could chime in as far as which length
      he has, and give you his perspective as well.
      
      Congrats on your interest in the Piet. Definitely spend some time searching
      through archives; there is a tremendous amount of information in there. Good
      luck,
      
      Ryan
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 02, 2009
From: 
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: 
tailwheel/skid bracket
      
      Hi Douwe,
      -
      I guess Dan is right.- If you take a look at the Sky Scout's tail skid pl
      ans (same style as the Air Camper) you can read "screw pocket plate to the 
      fuselage".
      Saludos
      -
      Santiago=0A=0A=0A      ____________________________________________________
      ________________________________=0A=A1Viv=ED la mejor experiencia en la web
      !=0ADescarg=E1 gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8=0Ahttp://downloads.yahoo
      .com/ieak8/?l=ar
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: 
Aileron response & stick movement
Date: 
May 02, 2009
      
      Has anyone shortened the aileron horns from stock length in order to get 
      a faster roll response with smaller stick inputs?  After flying my plane 
      300+ hours, there have been times where I wished I had more aileron.  
      Typically in gusty, high wind conditions during turns.  Especially when 
      turning into the wind (like base to final), I've experienced gusts that 
      tend to pull the low wing further down...not a comfortable situation 
      when you are already low.  Max aileron input in the opposite direction 
      gives a response that is delayed and much slower than I would like.  I'm 
      running out of room for the stick, as it hits my leg.  There is more 
      aileron deflection left before I hit the stop, but in my typical flying 
      position my leg is in the way (I'm about 6'0", BTW, with a stock Piet 
      cockpit).  If I shift to one side and lift my leg I can get more aileron 
      deflection, so I'm not talking about increasing total deflection, just 
      increasing the response rate.
      
      It seems that shortening the aileron horns 20% to 30% would give me more 
      deflection for the same stick movement.  What are the potential 
      downsides that I'm not considering?  Has anyone done this?  I'm 
      interested in any thoughts or opinions on the subject.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Steve Ruse
      Norman, OK
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Aileron response & stick movement
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      Steve,
      
      
      I agree that roll response is not the strong suit of this design, but I
      don't know that making the ailerons move faster will help much.  Most
      airplanes achieve their max roll rate at some point before max aileron
      deflection, but it would certainly help a little because you could get the
      aileron response in a little faster.
      
      
      The Pietenpol has about the same roll rate as other planes of that era, such
      as the Piper J-3 Cub, the Fairchild 22 (and it has full span ailerons!) or
      the Aeronca L-3.  The Aeronca Champ has a significantly higher roll rate.
      Faster roll rates can be achieved by clipping the wings, but I don't think
      you'd be happy with the climb rate of a clipped-wing Piet.
      
      
      I've flown mine in gusty 25 knot winds, with a nearly direct crosswind. It's
      a challenge, but can be done - you've just got to be ready to give quick,
      full deflection responses.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse
      Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:39 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron response & stick movement
      
      
      Has anyone shortened the aileron horns from stock length in order to get a
      faster roll response with smaller stick inputs?  After flying my plane 300+
      hours, there have been times where I wished I had more aileron.  Typically
      in gusty, high wind conditions during turns.  Especially when turning into
      the wind (like base to final), I've experienced gusts that tend to pull the
      low wing further down...not a comfortable situation when you are already
      low.  Max aileron input in the opposite direction gives a response that is
      delayed and much slower than I would like.  I'm running out of room for the
      stick, as it hits my leg.  There is more aileron deflection left before I
      hit the stop, but in my typical flying position my leg is in the way (I'm
      about 6'0", BTW, with a stock Piet cockpit).  If I shift to one side and
      lift my leg I can get more aileron deflection, so I'm not talking about
      increasing total deflection, just increasing the response rate.
      
      
      It seems that shortening the aileron horns 20% to 30% would give me more
      deflection for the same stick movement.  What are the potential downsides
      that I'm not considering?  Has anyone done this?  I'm interested in any
      thoughts or opinions on the subject.
      
      
      Thanks,
      
      
      Steve Ruse
      
      Norman, OK
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
control cable concerns
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      
      The guy who I bought my project from fabricated some of the control cable
      assemblies and now that I'm hooking things up, I have a couple concerns.
      
      In the rudder bar end (wood) is a pivoting strap with a hole in the back for
      the rudder and one in the front for the front pedals.
      
      He's attached the rudder cables to this pivoting strap with just a thimble,
      no shackle.  Now since the strap pivots, there isn't really movement in
      there, but it concerns me, and doesn't seem kosher based on Bingeles's book
      (he doesn't discuss this, just doesn't show it).
      
      He did the same thing on the elevator cable in the middle of the stick, no
      shackle, just a thimble to a plate.
      
      Is this acceptable or should I tear it all out and refabricate?  Hate doing
      that since everything is done, but if it's unsafe, there is no question.
      
      If I do need to refabricate, could I try cutting through the nicopress
      without damaging the cable?
      
      Douwe
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 
steel fuse and So Cal airports
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      
      Mike,
      
      Welcome to the group!
      
      Having lived 38 years in So Cal, I hear your plight re an airport.  Don't
      know if you're much of a driver, but there are two affordable airports in
      central Ca, about 3.5 hrs north.  Ck out Santa Maria prices and little
      Oceano airport.  I know it's far, but if your schedule allows weekends or
      something it might be an option.
      
      Another thought would be with your weather, it would probably be realistic
      to bring it to the airport and tie it down for a couple of weeks or months
      of flying, fabricate some extensive wing and fuse UV and dust covers and
      then bring it home again.  (brainstorming here)
      
      If I was to build over again, I'd use the steel fuse mainly because it saves
      an appreciable amount of weight, plus being a welder, it would go together
      in a snap.
      
      good luck!
      
      D
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 03, 2009
From: 
Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: 
Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      I just saw the article in the latest Sport Aviation about the group 
      build of six steel-tube fuselage Pietenpols and thought that maybe some 
      of the group would like to see plans for another steel-tube Pietenpol 
      variant.
      
      My airplane is the Pfeifer Sport, build by Joe Pfeifer in 1975. He was a 
      friend of Bernie's back in the good old days and built a steel-tube 
      version of the Piet in 1930 and also powered it with a Model A engine. 
      He built the Corvair powered version I own in 1975 after Bernie had 
      started using Corvairs in his Piets.
      
      Joe also built World War I replicas, with his Sopwith Pup and Nieuport 
      17, both with Le Rhone rotaries, displayed at the Flying Lady Restaurant 
      in Morgan Hill in the south San Francisco Bay area for many years.
      
      The fellow who drew up the blueprints for Joe was Ivan Dunlop, who had 
      built a beautiful Model B powered Piet that was also displayed at the 
      Flying Lady and is now rebuilt and flying from the South County airport 
      museum. Ivan visited me here in Sonoma and got his first ride in the 
      Pfeifer. Although he had drawn up the plans, he never got a ride when 
      Joe owned the airplane.
      
      Since my copy of the plans were aging, I had them scanned and saved as 
      .pdf files to preserve them. I had contacted Ivan's widow to try to find 
      the original vellums, but could never track them down, so I think these 
      are the only plans still in existence.
      
      If anyone would like a copy of the plans on disc let me know. I'll also 
      scan the original 1976 Sport Aviation article written by Bill Turner and 
      make that available. $5 ought to cover the cost of mailing and the disc.
      
      I hope to make it back to Brodhead again this year. It will be a while 
      before I can get the Sport back there since I'm rebuilding the engine 
      when I can steal time from work and other obligations.
      
      Darrel Jones
      Pfeifer Sport N154JP
      Sonoma, CA
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      
      Darrel,
      
      I would love to have a set of the plans.  Your offer is more than generous. 
      How do I get the money to you?  Cash, check?  The recent article in the 
      Sport Aviation is really great. Hope to see those planes at Osh this year.
      
      Ray Krause
      843 Jay Street
      Colusa, CA 95932
      Raykruase(at)frontiernet.net.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Ray Krause
      
      N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, 
      Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 91 hrs.
      
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Darrel Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 2:06 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      >
      > I just saw the article in the latest Sport Aviation about the group build 
      > of six steel-tube fuselage Pietenpols and thought that maybe some of the 
      > group would like to see plans for another steel-tube Pietenpol variant.
      >
      > My airplane is the Pfeifer Sport, build by Joe Pfeifer in 1975. He was a 
      > friend of Bernie's back in the good old days and built a steel-tube 
      > version of the Piet in 1930 and also powered it with a Model A engine. He 
      > built the Corvair powered version I own in 1975 after Bernie had started 
      > using Corvairs in his Piets.
      >
      > Joe also built World War I replicas, with his Sopwith Pup and Nieuport 17, 
      > both with Le Rhone rotaries, displayed at the Flying Lady Restaurant in 
      > Morgan Hill in the south San Francisco Bay area for many years.
      >
      > The fellow who drew up the blueprints for Joe was Ivan Dunlop, who had 
      > built a beautiful Model B powered Piet that was also displayed at the 
      > Flying Lady and is now rebuilt and flying from the South County airport 
      > museum. Ivan visited me here in Sonoma and got his first ride in the 
      > Pfeifer. Although he had drawn up the plans, he never got a ride when Joe 
      > owned the airplane.
      >
      > Since my copy of the plans were aging, I had them scanned and saved as 
      > .pdf files to preserve them. I had contacted Ivan's widow to try to find 
      > the original vellums, but could never track them down, so I think these 
      > are the only plans still in existence.
      >
      > If anyone would like a copy of the plans on disc let me know. I'll also 
      > scan the original 1976 Sport Aviation article written by Bill Turner and 
      > make that available. $5 ought to cover the cost of mailing and the disc.
      >
      > I hope to make it back to Brodhead again this year. It will be a while 
      > before I can get the Sport back there since I'm rebuilding the engine when 
      > I can steal time from work and other obligations.
      >
      > Darrel Jones
      > Pfeifer Sport N154JP
      > Sonoma, CA
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 03, 2009
From: 
Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      Ray,
      
      Cash in an envelope is simplest. I'll put a disc in a padded envelope 
      and get it in the mail tomorrow.
      
      If you feel like flying a long cross country from Colusa, come over to 
      Sonoma Skypark, 0Q9, on any Saturday for $4 hamburgers at noon. We also 
      have Walt Bowe's original style A powered Pietenpol on the field.
      
      Darrel
      
      Ray Krause wrote:
      > 
      >
      > Darrel,
      >
      > I would love to have a set of the plans.  Your offer is more than 
      > generous. How do I get the money to you?  Cash, check?  The recent 
      > article in the Sport Aviation is really great. Hope to see those 
      > planes at Osh this year.
      >
      > Ray Krause
      > 843 Jay Street
      > Colusa, CA 95932
      > Raykruase(at)frontiernet.net.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Ray Krause
      >
      > N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood 
      > prop, Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 91 hrs.
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: 
"Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      
      Darrel,
      
      I also would love to get a set of the plans for the Pfeifer Sport.  I remember
      reading that article by Bill Turner years ago.  It always made me laugh.  It's
      funny how some homebuilts became famous, while others sank into obscurity.  The
      Pfeifer Sport was apparently the latter which is too bad since it was such
      an interesting historical type aircraft with a direct link to the Pietenpol. 
      Is yours the only flying example or are there other ones out there?  Thank you
      for your generous offer.
      
      Here's my address: 
      Paul N. Peckham
      23747 Country Lane
      Richland Center, WI  53581
      
      Thanks again.
      
      
      Paul
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242585#242585
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      
      Darrel,
      
      Please include me on your list of "plans wanters."
      
      Thanks very much for your effort!
      
      Al Lyscars
      723 Pine St.
      Manchester, NH  03104
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 11:32 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      > 
      >
      > Darrel,
      >
      > I also would love to get a set of the plans for the Pfeifer Sport.
      
        snipped 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: 
May 03, 2009
      
      
      Darrel,
      I have looked at Sonoma Skypark as a possible destination, sounds like a lot 
      of fun.  Just flew to Lakeport, Ukiah and Little River Monday, great flight. 
      I will get the info on 0Q9 right away. As soon as the weather is better, I 
      will be there. $4.00 hamburgers sound great!  Will send the $ as soon as 
      your package arrives.
      
      Ray Krause
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Darrel Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 3:29 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      >
      > Ray,
      >
      > Cash in an envelope is simplest. I'll put a disc in a padded envelope and 
      > get it in the mail tomorrow.
      >
      > If you feel like flying a long cross country from Colusa, come over to 
      > Sonoma Skypark, 0Q9, on any Saturday for $4 hamburgers at noon. We also 
      > have Walt Bowe's original style A powered Pietenpol on the field.
      >
      > Darrel
      >
      > Ray Krause wrote:
      >> 
      >>
      >> Darrel,
      >>
      >> I would love to have a set of the plans.  Your offer is more than 
      >> generous. How do I get the money to you?  Cash, check?  The recent 
      >> article in the Sport Aviation is really great. Hope to see those planes 
      >> at Osh this year.
      >>
      >> Ray Krause
      >> 843 Jay Street
      >> Colusa, CA 95932
      >> Raykruase(at)frontiernet.net.
      >>
      >> Thanks,
      >>
      >> Ray Krause
      >>
      >> N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, 
      >> Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 91 hrs.
      >>
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 04, 2009
From: 
Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: 
Re: Aileron response & stick movement
      
      Hi Steve, it is a bad idea to increase the deflection of control 
      surfaces as it may subject the wing to greater torsional forces than it 
      was designed to cope with, also the control surfaces can stall which can 
      lead to a reversed control effect, definitely not what you want to 
      happen.
      Regards Mike T.
      Just the assembly of the wing to go, and that will be my timber work 
      done. 
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Steve Ruse 
        To: Pietenpol List 
        Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 3:38 PM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron response & stick movement
      
      
        Has anyone shortened the aileron horns from stock length in order to 
      get a faster roll response with smaller stick inputs?  After flying my 
      plane 300+ hours, there have been times where I wished I had more 
      aileron.  Typically in gusty, high wind conditions during turns.  
      Especially when turning into the wind (like base to final), I've 
      experienced gusts that tend to pull the low wing further down...not a 
      comfortable situation when you are already low.  Max aileron input in 
      the opposite direction gives a response that is delayed and much slower 
      than I would like.  I'm running out of room for the stick, as it hits my 
      leg.  There is more aileron deflection left before I hit the stop, but 
      in my typical flying position my leg is in the way (I'm about 6'0", BTW, 
      with a stock Piet cockpit).  If I shift to one side and lift my leg I 
      can get more aileron deflection, so I'm not talking about increasing 
      total deflection, just increasing the response rate.
      
        It seems that shortening the aileron horns 20% to 30% would give me 
      more deflection for the same stick movement.  What are the potential 
      downsides that I'm not considering?  Has anyone done this?  I'm 
      interested in any thoughts or opinions on the subject.
      
        Thanks,
      
        Steve Ruse
        Norman, OK
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
control cable concerns
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      
      Good Morning Douwe   I can answer part of your question. I got halfway thro
      ugh the swageing process one time and realized I had done something wrong. 
      I tried to cut the swage off and redo it. No way. The swage would not come 
      off the cable so I disected the swage joint with my Dremmel to see why. The
       copper had actually been pressed down into the cable so that all the stran
      ds were surrounded by copper. I was amazed but I'll never doubt a well done
       swage again. In " My opinion" I don't see a problem with the lack of a sha
      ckle in your controls as long as the pivoting is taken by the pivot bolt no
      t by the cable joint. Hopefully some others will jump in on that.   Ed Gren
      tzer 
      
      > From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
      > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: control cable concerns
      > Date: Sun=2C 3 May 2009 08:54:23 -0400
      > 
      thlink.net>
      > 
      > The guy who I bought my project from fabricated some of the control cable
      > assemblies and now that I'm hooking things up=2C I have a couple concerns
      .
      > 
      > In the rudder bar end (wood) is a pivoting strap with a hole in the back 
      for
      > the rudder and one in the front for the front pedals.
      > 
      > He's attached the rudder cables to this pivoting strap with just a thimbl
      e=2C
      > no shackle. Now since the strap pivots=2C there isn't really movement in
      > there=2C but it concerns me=2C and doesn't seem kosher based on Bingeles'
      s book
      > (he doesn't discuss this=2C just doesn't show it).
      > 
      > He did the same thing on the elevator cable in the middle of the stick=2C
       no
      > shackle=2C just a thimble to a plate.
      > 
      > Is this acceptable or should I tear it all out and refabricate? Hate doin
      g
      > that since everything is done=2C but if it's unsafe=2C there is no questi
      on.
      > 
      > If I do need to refabricate=2C could I try cutting through the nicopress
      > without damaging the cable?
      > 
      > Douwe
      > 
      > 
      ===========
      ===========
      ===========
      ===========
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      _________________________________________________________________
      Windows Live=99: Keep your life in sync.
      http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: 
May 04, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      Darryl, I also would like a copy of the disc. Please send me your address. 
      
      Could you give me some baisic specs on the Pfeiffer? 
      How does it differ/resemble a Piet?
      The only photo I can find with a Google search is pretty grainey 
      
      Blue Skies, 
      Steve D
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
      Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009 16:20
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      > 
      > I just saw the article in the latest Sport Aviation about the group 
      > build of six steel-tube fuselage Pietenpols and thought that maybe some 
      > of the group would like to see plans for another steel-tube Pietenpol 
      > variant.
      > 
      > My airplane is the Pfeifer Sport, build by Joe Pfeifer in 1975. He was a 
      > friend of Bernie's back in the good old days and built a steel-tube 
      > version of the Piet in 1930 and also powered it with a Model A engine. 
      > He built the Corvair powered version I own in 1975 after Bernie had 
      > started using Corvairs in his Piets.
      > 
      > Joe also built World War I replicas, with his Sopwith Pup and Nieuport 
      > 17, both with Le Rhone rotaries, displayed at the Flying Lady Restaurant 
      > in Morgan Hill in the south San Francisco Bay area for many years.
      > 
      > The fellow who drew up the blueprints for Joe was Ivan Dunlop, who had 
      > built a beautiful Model B powered Piet that was also displayed at the 
      > Flying Lady and is now rebuilt and flying from the South County airport 
      > museum. Ivan visited me here in Sonoma and got his first ride in the 
      > Pfeifer. Although he had drawn up the plans, he never got a ride when 
      > Joe owned the airplane.
      > 
      > Since my copy of the plans were aging, I had them scanned and saved as 
      > .pdf files to preserve them. I had contacted Ivan's widow to try to find 
      > the original vellums, but could never track them down, so I think these 
      > are the only plans still in existence.
      > 
      > If anyone would like a copy of the plans on disc let me know. I'll also 
      > scan the original 1976 Sport Aviation article written by Bill Turner and 
      > make that available. $5 ought to cover the cost of mailing and the disc.
      > 
      > I hope to make it back to Brodhead again this year. It will be a while 
      > before I can get the Sport back there since I'm rebuilding the engine 
      > when I can steal time from work and other obligations.
      > 
      > Darrel Jones
      > Pfeifer Sport N154JP
      > Sonoma, CA
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
May 04, 2009
Subject: 
Aileron response-Steve Ruse...GN-1 or Piet ?  
      
      Steve,
      
      Do you have gaps in your ailerons ala the GN-1 design or are they sealed ? 
         For some reason I thought you fly a GN-1 though both
      Piet and GN-1 do require (if you want effective ailerons) gap seals of some
       sort.
      
      Mike C.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: 
May 04, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      There is also a Pfeiffer JL Sport photo. It is a Biplane with a Piet looking tail.
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
      Date: Monday, May 4, 2009 7:37
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      > NGB" <
      > 
      > Darryl, I also would like a copy of the disc. Please send me your address. 
      > 
      > Could you give me some baisic specs on the Pfeiffer? 
      > How does it differ/resemble a Piet?
      > The only photo I can find with a Google search is pretty grainey 
      > 
      > Blue Skies, 
      > Steve D
      > 
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Darrel Jones <
      > Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009 16:20
      > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
      > 
      > 
      > > I just saw the article in the latest Sport Aviation about the group 
      > > build of six steel-tube fuselage Pietenpols and thought that maybe some 
      > > of the group would like to see plans for another steel-tube Pietenpol 
      > > variant.
      > > 
      > > My airplane is the Pfeifer Sport, build by Joe Pfeifer in 1975. He was a 
      > > friend of Bernie's back in the good old days and built a steel-tube 
      > > version of the Piet in 1930 and also powered it with a Model A engine. 
      > > He built the Corvair powered version I own in 1975 after Bernie had 
      > > started using Corvairs in his Piets.
      > > 
      > > Joe also built World War I replicas, with his Sopwith Pup and Nieuport 
      > > 17, both with Le Rhone rotaries, displayed at the Flying Lady Restaurant 
      > > in Morgan Hill in the south San Francisco Bay area for many years.
      > > 
      > > The fellow who drew up the blueprints for Joe was Ivan Dunlop, who had 
      > > built a beautiful Model B powered Piet that was also displayed at the 
      > > Flying Lady and is now rebuilt and flying from the South County airport 
      > > museum. Ivan visited me here in Sonoma and got his first ride in the 
      > > Pfeifer. Although he had drawn up the plans, he never got a ride when 
      > > Joe owned the airplane.
      > > 
      > > Since my copy of the plans were aging, I had them scanned and saved as 
      > > .pdf files to preserve them. I had contacted Ivan's widow to try to find 
      > > the original vellums, but could never track them down, so I think these 
      > > are the only plans still in existence.
      > > 
      > > If anyone would like a copy of the plans on disc let me know. I'll also 
      > > scan the original 1976 Sport Aviation article written by Bill Turner and 
      > > make that available. $5 ought to cover the cost of mailing and the disc.
      > > 
      > > I hope to make it back to Brodhead again this year. It will be a while 
      > > before I can get the Sport back there since I'm rebuilding the engine 
      > > when I can steal time from work and other obligations.
      > > 
      > > Darrel Jones
      > > Pfeifer Sport N154JP
      > > Sonoma, CA
      > > 
      > > 
      > > 
      > > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Pfiefer Sport
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      
      There is a picture of Darrel Jones at the very bottom of this page=2C from 
      Corvair College No. 5:
      
      
      http://www.flycorvair.com/cc5.html
      
      
      Looking at the photo=2C one could truly say that they were looking at Darre
      l "like he had three heads" =3Bo)
      
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: Aileron response & stick movement
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      In addition to the other comments, don't discount the increase in stick 
      loads you would have.  This could have other effects such as bending the 
      torque tube or pulling at it's attachment fittings.  Bad idea!
      
      Gene
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Steve Ruse<mailto:steve(at)wotelectronics.com> 
        To: Pietenpol List 
        Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:38 PM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron response & stick movement
      
      
        Has anyone shortened the aileron horns from stock length in order to 
      get a faster roll response with smaller stick inputs?  After flying my 
      plane 300+ hours, there have been times where I wished I had more 
      aileron.  Typically in gusty, high wind conditions during turns.  
      Especially when turning into the wind (like base to final), I've 
      experienced gusts that tend to pull the low wing further down...not a 
      comfortable situation when you are already low.  Max aileron input in 
      the opposite direction gives a response that is delayed and much slower 
      than I would like.  I'm running out of room for the stick, as it hits my 
      leg.  There is more aileron deflection left before I hit the stop, but 
      in my typical flying position my leg is in the way (I'm about 6'0", BTW, 
      with a stock Piet cockpit).  If I shift to one side and lift my leg I 
      can get more aileron deflection, so I'm not talking about increasing 
      total deflection, just increasing the response rate.
      
        It seems that shortening the aileron horns 20% to 30% would give me 
      more deflection for the same stick movement.  What are the potential 
      downsides that I'm not considering?  Has anyone done this?  I'm 
      interested in any thoughts or opinions on the subject.
      
        Thanks,
      
        Steve Ruse
        Norman, OK
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      on>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: 
Re: control cable concerns
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      There are lots of production airplanes that have done the same thing 
      throughout the years with no downside.  A thimble through a fitting hole 
      can be just fine, and saves an expensive shackle to boot.
      
      Gene
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Douwe Blumberg<mailto:douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> 
        To: pietenpolgroup 
        Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 8:54 AM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: control cable concerns
      
      
      >
      
        The guy who I bought my project from fabricated some of the control 
      cable
        assemblies and now that I'm hooking things up, I have a couple 
      concerns.
      
        In the rudder bar end (wood) is a pivoting strap with a hole in the 
      back for
        the rudder and one in the front for the front pedals.
      
        He's attached the rudder cables to this pivoting strap with just a 
      thimble,
        no shackle.  Now since the strap pivots, there isn't really movement 
      in
        there, but it concerns me, and doesn't seem kosher based on Bingeles's 
      book
        (he doesn't discuss this, just doesn't show it).
      
        He did the same thing on the elevator cable in the middle of the 
      stick, no
        shackle, just a thimble to a plate.
      
        Is this acceptable or should I tear it all out and refabricate?  Hate 
      doing
        that since everything is done, but if it's unsafe, there is no 
      question.
      
        If I do need to refabricate, could I try cutting through the nicopress
        without damaging the cable?
      
        Douwe
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      on>
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 04, 2009
From: 
Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: 
Re: Aileron response-Steve Ruse...GN-1 or Piet ?
      
      
      Thanks Mike,
      
      It is a GN-1, and does have gap seals.  Normally the ailerons are just  
      fine.  It is just that tiny 1/2% of my flying time that I need extra  
      aileron due to crosswinds or gusty conditions, and my leg gets in the  
      way of the stick.
      
      Mike T. mentioned greater torsional forces on the wing and stalled  
      control surfaces if you increase deflection.  Great points.  To  
      prevent both of those issues, I would move the aileron stops so that  
      max deflection doesn't increase.  I just get more deflection with the  
      same stick movement.
      
      As a sidenote, this is the first message via e-mail that I've gotten  
      back on this thread.  I didn't get my own original message, but I can  
      see Jack's and Mike T.'s responses on the Matronics forum.  Mike C.'s  
      response did come through e-mail.  Does anyone have any idea why I'd  
      be missing e-mail?  They aren't in my spam folder.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Steve
      
      Quoting "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"  
      :
      
      > Steve,
      >
      > Do you have gaps in your ailerons ala the GN-1 design or are they   
      > sealed ?    For some reason I thought you fly a GN-1 though both
      > Piet and GN-1 do require (if you want effective ailerons) gap seals   
      > of some sort.
      >
      > Mike C.
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Aileron response-Steve Ruse...GN-1 or Piet ?
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      
      Steve,
      
      I've had a number of my replies to the Matronics forum go "missing". Makes
      me wonder what else I'm missing.  In general, the forums work very well.
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Ruse
      Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:22 AM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron response-Steve Ruse...GN-1 or Piet ?
      
      
      Thanks Mike,
      
      It is a GN-1, and does have gap seals.  Normally the ailerons are just
      fine.  It is just that tiny 1/2% of my flying time that I need extra
      aileron due to crosswinds or gusty conditions, and my leg gets in the
      way of the stick.
      
      Mike T. mentioned greater torsional forces on the wing and stalled
      control surfaces if you increase deflection.  Great points.  To
      prevent both of those issues, I would move the aileron stops so that
      max deflection doesn't increase.  I just get more deflection with the
      same stick movement.
      
      As a sidenote, this is the first message via e-mail that I've gotten
      back on this thread.  I didn't get my own original message, but I can
      see Jack's and Mike T.'s responses on the Matronics forum.  Mike C.'s
      response did come through e-mail.  Does anyone have any idea why I'd
      be missing e-mail?  They aren't in my spam folder.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Steve
      
      Quoting "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
      :
      
      > Steve,
      >
      > Do you have gaps in your ailerons ala the GN-1 design or are they
      > sealed ?    For some reason I thought you fly a GN-1 though both
      > Piet and GN-1 do require (if you want effective ailerons) gap seals
      > of some sort.
      >
      > Mike C.
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
May 04, 2009
Subject: 
aileron effectiveness
      
      
      Steve, 
      
      Would you consider making your ailerons one wing rib longer ?    I don't see why
      you couldn't
      modify your wing and either build on-to or build a new, longer aileron.   There
      may be some
      adverse yaw issues with a longer aileron though that I'm not considering. 
      
      I agree with Jack that the Piet ailerons are adequate in gusty crosswinds though
      you do have to
      be ready for any upset close to flare (and for that very fun bucking bronco ride
      down final) 
      and hope for the best regarding timing in the lulls and peaks.  Prayer helps. 
      
      Mike C. 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: steel fuse and So Cal airports
From: 
"Codeseven" <mikedoloresa(at)att.net>
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      
      Thank you D, I appreciate it.
      
      
      Mike
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242698#242698
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
homebuilt cable tensiometer
Date: 
May 04, 2009
      
      
      No need to guess your cable tension anymore... here is a link to Larry McFa
      rland's website which contains many nifty ideas including a homebuilt tensi
      ometer.  It is set up for 1/8" cable but just looking at the design=2C I'll
       bet you could use interchangeable springs and scales and use it for at lea
      st one other size of cable if not two more.
      
      
      http://www.macsmachine.com and look under "Tools=2C Jigging & Handling" for
       "Cable Tools"
      
      
      What I used to tension the cables on 41CC is a gadget made by Loos & Co.=2C
       here's a picture:
      
      http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/LO-90.htm
      
      
      I didn't so much care about the absolute value of the cable tension as I di
      d about equalizing the tension between wires.  So=2C I tensioned one the wa
      y I wanted it=2C checked that value with the tensiometer=2C then set the ot
      hers the same.  I have no idea what the actual tension is nor do I have Mik
      e Cuy's or Corky's tuning-fork ears to tell what note the cable produced wh
      en twanged =3Bo) 
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 04, 2009
From: 
shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 
Re: cable shackle alternative
      
      
      A nice easy and inexpensive substitute for a shackle is a motorcycle a chai
      n link, with a cable thimble and nicopress sleeve.- Not sure what size th
      ey are, as most are metric these days.- We used them on the rudder bar fo
      r the rudder cables, and just took out the roller pin and used 2 an clevis 
      pins.- They are plenty strong for a pietenpol, if you want to test it hoo
      k a test cable to a tractor and a good size tree or trailor hitch and try t
      o break it.
      -
      Just another Idea
      Shad=0A=0A=0A      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: 
May 04, 2009
Subject: 
Re: homebuilt cable tensiometer
      
      G flat
      **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. 
      (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 04, 2009
From: 
Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
      >
      > Darryl, I also would like a copy of the disc. Please send me your address. 
      >
      > Could you give me some baisic specs on the Pfeiffer? 
      > How does it differ/resemble a Piet?
      > The only photo I can find with a Google search is pretty grainey 
      >
      > Blue Skies, 
      > Steve D
      >   
      
      > Steve,
      >   
      
      Reply with your address and I'll send the disc with the plans and 
      article. You can send a check to the address on my return label.
      
      Darrel
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 04, 2009
From: 
Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: 
Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      I've had a good response to my offer of a .pdf copy of the Pfeifer Sport 
      plans and have the first batch of discs in the mail. It occurred to me 
      after I made my offer that I should make clear what my expectations are 
      regarding the plans. I'm sharing them with the Pietenpol community for 
      educational purposes only. Joe Pfeifer designed and built the Pfeifer 
      Sport and had the original plans drawn. Joe is long gone now but his 
      family is still around. The intellectual rights are still theirs, so if 
      anyone gets excited about building another Pfeifer Sport it is only 
      right that they contact Butch to get permission and possibly pay 
      something for the plans.
      
      If you get some good ideas from the plans for your own Pietenpol, good 
      for you. I wouldn't want someone duplicating and selling the plans from 
      the discs I'm giving out. I think this group is an honorable bunch and 
      don't expect anyone to violate this trust.
      
      Enjoy looking over what I think is an exceptional little airplane. I 
      hope to have it back in the air while I'm still able to fly it. Maybe 
      when I retire I'll take the summer off and fly it back to Brodhead!
      
      Hope to make it there this summer for the Pietenpol anniversary and to 
      see all those Piets at Oshkosh.
      
      Blue skies,
      Darrel
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: 
May 05, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      Great!
      
      Major Steven Dortch
      430 Graham Rd
      Fort Sam Houston, Texas 782
      
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
      Date: Monday, May 4, 2009 20:49
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      > 
      > Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
      > >
      > > Darryl, I also would like a copy of the disc. Please send me your address.
      
      > >
      > > Could you give me some baisic specs on the Pfeiffer? 
      > > How does it differ/resemble a Piet?
      > > The only photo I can find with a Google search is pretty grainey 
      > >
      > > Blue Skies, 
      > > Steve D
      > >   
      > 
      > > Steve,
      > >   
      > 
      > Reply with your address and I'll send the disc with the plans and 
      > article. You can send a check to the address on my return label.
      > 
      > Darrel
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: 
"JohnC" <jcalvert(at)trinityvideo.net>
Date: 
May 05, 2009
      
      
      Count me in, too!
      John Calvert
      9323 Willowwood Way
      Jeffersontown, KY  40299
      
      --------
      I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I don't poke
      him in the eye on accident.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242771#242771
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: 
"TOPGUN" <rmdinfo(at)lakefield.net>
Date: 
May 05, 2009
      
      
      I would like to examine the prints as well.......
      
      Chris Rusch
      3718 Riverview Dr
      Two Rivers, WI 54241
      
      Thank You!!
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242775#242775
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: 
Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: 
May 05, 2009
      
      
      Darrel,
      
      I agree completely with your position on the plans and their use.  I was 
      once in the software business and have a high regard for intellectual 
      property, its value and copyright laws.  People should be rewarded for their 
      intellectual endeavors as well as physical endeavors.
      
      Thanks,
      
      Ray Krause
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Darrel Jones" <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 3:29 PM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans
      
      
      >
      > Ray,
      >
      > Cash in an envelope is simplest. I'll put a disc in a padded envelope and 
      > get it in the mail tomorrow.
      >
      > If you feel like flying a long cross country from Colusa, come over to 
      > Sonoma Skypark, 0Q9, on any Saturday for $4 hamburgers at noon. We also 
      > have Walt Bowe's original style A powered Pietenpol on the field.
      >
      > Darrel
      >
      > Ray Krause wrote:
      >> 
      >>
      >> Darrel,
      >>
      >> I would love to have a set of the plans.  Your offer is more than 
      >> generous. How do I get the money to you?  Cash, check?  The recent 
      >> article in the Sport Aviation is really great. Hope to see those planes 
      >> at Osh this year.
      >>
      >> Ray Krause
      >> 843 Jay Street
      >> Colusa, CA 95932
      >> Raykruase(at)frontiernet.net.
      >>
      >> Thanks,
      >>
      >> Ray Krause
      >>
      >> N51YX, Waiex, TD, Jab 3300 (1197), AeroCarb, Sensinich 54X62 wood prop, 
      >> Dynon D-180, Garmin SL-30, 327, 296, 91 hrs.
      >>
      >
      >
      > 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: 
May 06, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Club OOFF
      
      Cant say the thought hasn't crossed my mind also. We read the stories of
      
      the pilot that runs out of fuel and saves his passengers and aircraft by
      
      landing  on a roadway. We never do hear about the repercussions by the FAA
        and 
      local law enforcement agencies if any at all. I also wonder how  that is
      
      administered, by the FAA, local jurisdiction, roadway type,  municipal ent
      ity 
      or the degree of fame and notoriety of the pilot? All just  a matter of 
      curiousity.
      
      John  
      **************Big savings on Dell=99s most popular laptops. Now star
      ting at 
      $449! 
      =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663377%3B36502382%3Bh)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Club OOFF
Date: 
May 06, 2009
      
      I think it depends on the officer at the scene.  When I had a forced landing
      with my Pietenpol on US Highway 64 west of Raleigh 5 years ago, there were
      no repercussions at all.  The State Highway Patrol was on the scene and I
      talked with both the FAA and the NTSB from the scene.  I had to make a
      written report to the FAA and that was the end of it.
      
      
      Two years ago, one of the members of our EAA Chapter lost all the oil from
      his RV-4 (broken oil cooler line) and set it down safely on US Highway 1
      between Raleigh and Sanford.  He was written up by the Highway Patrol and
      had to pay a fine.
      
      
      You fellows in the midwest don't know what it's like to fly around here.
      Much of the time a highway is your only safe option - otherwise you are
      gonna be in the trees.  In the midwest the biggest problem is choosing which
      of the hundreds of available fields to use for a forced landing.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:18 AM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Club OOFF
      
      
      Cant say the thought hasn't crossed my mind also. We read the stories of the
      pilot that runs out of fuel and saves his passengers and aircraft by landing
      on a roadway. We never do hear about the repercussions by the FAA and local
      law enforcement agencies if any at all. I also wonder how that is
      administered, by the FAA, local jurisdiction, roadway type, municipal entity
      or the degree of fame and notoriety of the pilot? All just a matter of
      curiousity.
      
      
      John  
      
      
        _____  
      
      Big
      p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663377%3B36502382%3Bh>  savings on
      Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: 
May 06, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Club OOFF
      
      Here in Pennsylvania many of our roads are just as good as many of the roc
      k 
       filled farm fields, sometimes better if you can find a new stretch of 
      roadway  that has no wires, but pretty much the best option for semi strai
      ght 
      hard  surfaces, typically when you find a road with no traffic, there's a
       good 
       chance its not a road!
      
      John
      **************Big savings on Dell=99s most popular laptops. Now star
      ting at 
      $449! 
      =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663377%3B36502382%3Bh)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Club OOFF
From: 
jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: 
May 06, 2009
      
      Being from the Mid west I will take my chances with the Law and the FAA 
      rather than try to explain to some farmer why I just did a forced landing 
      in the middle of his gold plated hay field.  All the while taking an ass 
      chewing, for the damage I did, meanwhile his kids cut doughnuts in the 
      same filed with 4 wheeler, but that's ok.....At least the officer will let 
      
      you remove the aircraft...
      
      
      Jake Spiegel
      Slooooowly building
      Jesup Iowa
      
      
      "Jack Phillips"  
      Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      05/06/2009 02:12 PM
      Please respond to
      pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
      
      
      To
      
      cc
      
      Subject
      RE: Pietenpol-List: Club OOFF
      
      
      I think it depends on the officer at the scene.  When I had a forced 
      landing with my Pietenpol on US Highway 64 west of Raleigh 5 years ago, 
      there were no repercussions at all.  The State Highway Patrol was on the 
      scene and I talked with both the FAA and the NTSB from the scene.  I had 
      to make a written report to the FAA and that was the end of it.
      
      Two years ago, one of the members of our EAA Chapter lost all the oil from 
      
      his RV-4 (broken oil cooler line) and set it down safely on US Highway 1 
      between Raleigh and Sanford.  He was written up by the Highway Patrol and 
      had to pay a fine.
      
      You fellows in the midwest don?t know what it?s like to fly around here. 
      Much of the time a highway is your only safe option ? otherwise you are 
      gonna be in the trees.  In the midwest the biggest problem is choosing 
      which of the hundreds of available fields to use for a forced landing.
      
      Jack Phillips
      NX899JP
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
      AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:18 AM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Club OOFF
      
      Cant say the thought hasn't crossed my mind also. We read the stories of 
      the pilot that runs out of fuel and saves his passengers and aircraft by 
      landing on a roadway. We never do hear about the repercussions by the FAA 
      and local law enforcement agencies if any at all. I also wonder how that 
      is administered, by the FAA, local jurisdiction, roadway type, municipal 
      entity or the degree of fame and notoriety of the pilot? All just a matter 
      
      of curiousity.
      
      John 
      
      
      Big savings on Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      http://forums.matronics.com
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Club OOFF
Date: 
May 06, 2009
      
      I think the clearest distinction comes about when the invasion of the public
      roadway is the pilot's fault, as in simple fuel mismanagement causing the
      unwanted landing.  If you screw up and cause a public safety issue, you will
      probably pay.  If something unforeseen and and unavoidable happens though,
      such as a bird strike or broken piston rod, and the roadway is a reasonable
      way to keep yourself alive, it is pretty difficult for FAA in particular
      and/or local LEO to make a citation stick.
      Jack, your buddy's fine was probably viewed as a "user fee" to make up for
      his not having paid highway gas tax.  You didn't say if the FAA had any
      issues with his incident.
      Mike Hardaway
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
      Phillips
      Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:13 PM
      Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Club OOFF
      
      
      I think it depends on the officer at the scene.  When I had a forced landing
      with my Pietenpol on US Highway 64 west of Raleigh 5 years ago, there were
      no repercussions at all.  The State Highway Patrol was on the scene and I
      talked with both the FAA and the NTSB from the scene.  I had to make a
      written report to the FAA and that was the end of it.
      
      
      Two years ago, one of the members of our EAA Chapter lost all the oil from
      his RV-4 (broken oil cooler line) and set it down safely on US Highway 1
      between Raleigh and Sanford.  He was written up by the Highway Patrol and
      had to pay a fine.
      
      
      You fellows in the midwest don't know what it's like to fly around here.
      Much of the time a highway is your only safe option - otherwise you are
      gonna be in the trees.  In the midwest the biggest problem is choosing which
      of the hundreds of available fields to use for a forced landing.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:18 AM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Club OOFF
      
      
      Cant say the thought hasn't crossed my mind also. We read the stories of the
      pilot that runs out of fuel and saves his passengers and aircraft by landing
      on a roadway. We never do hear about the repercussions by the FAA and local
      law enforcement agencies if any at all. I also wonder how that is
      administered, by the FAA, local jurisdiction, roadway type, municipal entity
      or the degree of fame and notoriety of the pilot? All just a matter of
      curiousity.
      
      
      John  
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      Big savings on Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449!
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      
      
      http://forums.matronics.com
      
      
      http://www.matronics.com/contribution
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: 
May 07, 2009
Subject: 
installing barrel in strut
      
      Would someone tell or show the correct way to install the barrel in the 
      
      strut.Tony Bingelis books doesn't address this issue.
      
      Ted Stone
      Piet builder
      KF4IIK
      **************Big savings on Dell=99s most popular laptops. Now star
      ting at 
      $449! 
      =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Club OOFF
Date: 
May 07, 2009
      
      
      I think Mike (Hardaway) said it best... the circumstances make all the diff
      erence.  In a forced landing situation where something has gone wrong=2C th
      e FARs allow you to deviate from the rules to the extent required to handle
       the situation.  It's quite another thing to run out of fuel in something o
      ther than a forced or emergency situation.
      
      
      In that case=2C like Ricky told Lucy=2C "you got a lot a 'splainin' to do!"
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: 
May 07, 2009
Subject: 
installing barrel in strut
      
      Ted,
      
      I slotted my lower strut ends to accept the 'ears' of the weldable threaded
       barrels that I purchased from Wicks or ACS.
      I found that the threads had to be chased with a tap after welding as the f
      ork end didn't screw in easily until that was accomplished.
      
      Mike C.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: 
May 07, 2009
Subject: 
BARREL AND STRUT ATTACHMENT
      
      THANKS FOR PHOTO MIKE,THAT CLEARS UP WHAT I NEEDED TO KNOW ON HOW TO DO IT
      . 
       AS THE SAYING GOES A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND  WORDS.
      **************Big savings on Dell=99s most popular laptops. Now star
      ting at 
      $449! 
      =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg)
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
installing barrel in strut
Date: 
May 07, 2009
      
      Hi Ted,
      
      
      I did mine a little different from Mike.  I used rod end bearings on the top
      end of my lift struts, and I made the strut fittings.  I used a heavy walled
      tube of 4130, slotted it and welded in a piece of 1/8" 4130 sheet, then
      drilled and tapped it to fit the threads on the rod end.  I then slotted the
      lift strut and welded the fitting in place.  See attached picture.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
      TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
      Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 7:33 AM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: installing barrel in strut
      
      
      Would someone tell or show the correct way to install the barrel in the
      strut.Tony Bingelis books doesn't address this issue.
      
      
      Ted Stone
      
      Piet builder
      
      KF4IIK
      
      
        _____  
      
      Big
      p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg>  savings on
      Dell's most popular laptops. Now starting at $449!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 07, 2009
From: 
Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 
Rudder travel at the rudder (hinge gap)
      
      Curiuous as to what most of you have as far as the hinge gap between the vertical
      stabilizer and the rudder. I may end up with a smaller gap and want to be sure
      I still get the required throw from the rudder before the gap closes and I
      put unwanted stress on the hinges. Thanks.
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Tail handling
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      
      Everyone,
      
      I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need
      to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able
      to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only
      a skid, especially have to address this problem.
      I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and
      covered the fuse already.
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL
      Everything covered except the wing
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
Date: 
May 08, 2009
      
      On NX18235 a handle is attached to the aft fuselage at the point where 
      the tailskid A-frame connects to the fuselage.
      Grabbing the tailskid A-frame works just as well but I tend to get 
      tangled up in the elevator and rudder cables.
      Installing a grab handle along the lower longeron about 3 feet forward 
      of the A-frame would have been useful.
      
      Greg Cardinal
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: helspersew(at)aol.com 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:27 AM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling
      
      
        Everyone,
      
        I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground 
      when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at 
      Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the 
      horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this 
      problem.
        I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I 
      forgot, and covered the fuse already.
      
        Dan Helsper
        Poplar Grove, IL
        Everything covered except the wing
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
        Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL 
      Shopping. 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
lnawms(at)yahoo.com
Subject: 
footnote in Pietenpol history
      
      As I was reading a newly arrived aviation publication and reviewing some po
      sts on this site, I recalled when I was a new enthusiast to the Pietenpol s
      cene and the respect paid to Mr. Pietenpol was of the highest order. It was
       common knowledge that Mr. Pietenpol really, really, really-disliked bein
      g called "Bernie"so, nobody ever did.-He was addressed and referred to-
      as either Mr. Pietenpol or Bernard and if anyone new came along and slipped
       up they either got the evil eye or were politely informed of their infract
      ion.
      -
      In this day of overall decline in innocence and trust, it sure would be nic
      e to hold on to at least a little scrap of honor-for a man who-gave us 
      the gift-of building and flying something that hearkens back to a much-
      simpler and better-time in America.
      -
      Please, no more "Bernie" for those of us who honor the man and his airplane
      .
      -
      Thanks-
      -
      Larry W. xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Tail handling
Date: 
May 08, 2009
      
      I agree with Greg.  I wish I had put a handle on my lower longerons.  The
      tail is fairly heavy, and reaching through the bird's nest of cables just
      forward of the stabilizer is not easy.  I would NOT pick it up by the
      stabilizer, since nothing on the stabilizer ahead of the spar is attached to
      the fuselage and you would be relying on the rib capstrips to support the
      weight of the entire tail.
      
      
      With a tailwheel which can go into full swivel, I find that I tend to push
      mine around on the ground with the tail bracing wires where they attach to
      the vertical fin.  Not a very good solution, but handy.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      
        _____  
      
      From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal
      Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:01 AM
      Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling
      
      
      On NX18235 a handle is attached to the aft fuselage at the point where the
      tailskid A-frame connects to the fuselage.
      
      Grabbing the tailskid A-frame works just as well but I tend to get tangled
      up in the elevator and rudder cables.
      
      Installing a grab handle along the lower longeron about 3 feet forward of
      the A-frame would have been useful.
      
      
      Greg Cardinal
      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      
      From: helspersew(at)aol.com 
      
      
      Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:27 AM
      
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling
      
      
      Everyone,
      
      I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you
      need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are
      you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those
      with only a skid, especially have to address this problem.
      I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot,
      and covered the fuse already.
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL
      Everything covered except the wing
      
      
        _____  
      
      
      Shopping for Mom? Save
      <http://shopping.aol.com/mothers-day-gifts-for-mom?ncid=emlweinstor00000003>
      yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping. 
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
      s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
      href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
      href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
From: 
Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
      
      Dan,
      
      Bill Rewey installed a handle on his Piet. Here's a shot from WestCoastPiet
      (thanks Chris!):
      
      http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/DSCF0039.JPG
      
      I believe it is just two U channels with the handle welded to each, and then
      the channels come up onto the longeron from underneath and bolts are run
      through. Not that that helps you much, since you have already covered your
      fuse.
      
      Have a good weekend,
      
      Ryan
      
      
      On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:27 AM,  wrote:
      
      > Everyone,
      >
      > I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you
      > need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are
      > you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those
      > with only a skid, especially have to address this problem.
      > I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I
      > forgot, and covered the fuse already.
      >
      > Dan Helsper
      > Poplar Grove, IL
      > Everything covered except the wing
      >
      >
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
From: 
Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
      
      7229R Never had a handle, I just reach down and put my hand under the lower
      longeron and pick the tail up.
      
      Andrew
      
      On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Ryan Mueller  wrote:
      
      > Dan,
      >
      > Bill Rewey installed a handle on his Piet. Here's a shot from WestCoastPiet
      > (thanks Chris!):
      >
      > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/DSCF0039.JPG
      >
      > I believe it is just two U channels with the handle welded to each, and
      > then the channels come up onto the longeron from underneath and bolts are
      > run through. Not that that helps you much, since you have already covered
      > your fuse.
      >
      > Have a good weekend,
      >
      > Ryan
      >
      >
      > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:27 AM,  wrote:
      >
      >> Everyone,
      >>
      >> I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when
      >> you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead.
      >> Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab?
      >> Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem.
      >> I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I
      >> forgot, and covered the fuse already.
      >>
      >> Dan Helsper
      >> Poplar Grove, IL
      >> Everything covered except the wing
      >>
      >>
      > *
      >
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      
      
      -- 
      
      Andrew M. Eldredge
      Sahuarita, AZ
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
Date: 
May 08, 2009
      
      Greg and Jack
      I put a handle as you described on my first Piet.  It didn't work out 
      very well.  The lifting force would bend the longereon a bit, so I 
      removed them.  If you could find a way of supporting the handle it would 
      be a big help.
      Dick N.
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Jack Phillips 
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
        Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:46 AM
        Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling
      
      
        I agree with Greg.  I wish I had put a handle on my lower longerons.  
      The tail is fairly heavy, and reaching through the bird's nest of cables 
      just forward of the stabilizer is not easy.  I would NOT pick it up by 
      the stabilizer, since nothing on the stabilizer ahead of the spar is 
      attached to the fuselage and you would be relying on the rib capstrips 
      to support the weight of the entire tail.
      
         
      
        With a tailwheel which can go into full swivel, I find that I tend to 
      push mine around on the ground with the tail bracing wires where they 
      attach to the vertical fin.  Not a very good solution, but handy.
      
         
      
        Jack Phillips
      
        NX899JP
      
         
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -----
      
        From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 
      [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
      gcardinal
        Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:01 AM
        To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
        Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling
      
         
      
        On NX18235 a handle is attached to the aft fuselage at the point where 
      the tailskid A-frame connects to the fuselage.
      
        Grabbing the tailskid A-frame works just as well but I tend to get 
      tangled up in the elevator and rudder cables.
      
        Installing a grab handle along the lower longeron about 3 feet forward 
      of the A-frame would have been useful.
      
         
      
        Greg Cardinal
      
          ----- Original Message ----- 
      
          From: helspersew(at)aol.com 
      
          To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com 
      
          Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:27 AM
      
          Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling
      
           
      
          Everyone,
      
          I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground 
      when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at 
      Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the 
      horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this 
      problem.
          I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I 
      forgot, and covered the fuse already.
      
          Dan Helsper
          Poplar Grove, IL
          Everything covered except the wing
      
           
      
      
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      
          Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL 
      Shopping. 
      
      
      href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
      ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
      ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
      http://www.matronics.com/c  
      http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
      comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
"Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: 
Re: footnote in Pietenpol history
Date: 
May 08, 2009
      
      Thank you, very well said.
      Dick N.
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: lnawms(at)yahoo.com 
        To: Pietlist 
        Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:12 AM
        Subject: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history
      
      
              As I was reading a newly arrived aviation publication and 
      reviewing some posts on this site, I recalled when I was a new 
      enthusiast to the Pietenpol scene and the respect paid to Mr. Pietenpol 
      was of the highest order. It was common knowledge that Mr. Pietenpol 
      really, really, really disliked being called "Bernie"so, nobody ever 
      did. He was addressed and referred to as either Mr. Pietenpol or Bernard 
      and if anyone new came along and slipped up they either got the evil eye 
      or were politely informed of their infraction.
      
              In this day of overall decline in innocence and trust, it sure 
      would be nice to hold on to at least a little scrap of honor for a man 
      who gave us the gift of building and flying something that hearkens back 
      to a much simpler and better time in America.
      
              Please, no more "Bernie" for those of us who honor the man and 
      his airplane.
      
              Thanks-
      
              Larry W. xcg, xcmr, epp 
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: 
Tail handling
      
      Hi Dan,
      -
      When we were-in Oshkosh last year, we saw-in the unfinished Air Camper 
      inside-Pietenpol's hangar, a nice way to put a handle in the tail (photo 
      attached).- Maybe is to late for you, but can be useful to someone else.
      - 
      Saludos
      -
      Santiago=0A=0A=0A      ____________________________________________________
      ________________________________=0A=A1Viv=ED la mejor experiencia en la web
      !=0ADescarg=E1 gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8=0Ahttp://downloads.yahoo
      .com/ieak8/?l=ar
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
      
      
      Glad to know I'm not the only one that lays awake at night second 
      guessing myself!
      
      Ben Charvet
      finishing up covering the fuselage, wings covered and painted
      
      helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
      > Everyone,
      >
      > I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground 
      > when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at 
      > Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the 
      > horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address 
      > this problem.
      > I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I 
      > forgot, and covered the fuse already.
      >
      > Dan Helsper
      > Poplar Grove, IL
      > Everything covered except the wing
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL 
      > Shopping 
      > <http://shopping.aol.com/mothers-day-gifts-for-mom?ncid=emlweinstor00000003>. 
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      > *
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
From: 
Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
      
      I have taken that same picture. It is where I got the idea to used those
      fairleads for the rudder and eleveator cables hanging out the side of the
      fuselage.
      
      Rick
      
      On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM, santiago morete  wrote:
      
      > Hi Dan,
      >
      > When we were in Oshkosh last year, we saw in the unfinished Air Camper
      > inside Pietenpol's hangar, a nice way to put a handle in the tail (photo
      > attached).  Maybe is to late for you, but can be useful to someone else.
      > Saludos
      >
      > Santiago
      >
      > ------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Cocina
      > Recetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable
      > Visit=E1 http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
      >
      
      
      -- 
      Rick Holland
      Castle Rock, Colorado
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: 
Re: Tail handling
      
      I pick it up by the tail wheel and move it around.Better still get the wife
       to pick up the tail wheel and move it around. Just be careful she doesn't 
      have anything heavy in her hand when you tell her to do that for ya ;-D=0A
      =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@
      bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, May 8, 20
      09 11:57:04 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling=0A=0A--> Pieten
      pol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet =0A=0AGlad 
      to know I'm not the only one that lays awake at night second guessing mysel
      f!=0A=0ABen Charvet=0Afinishing up covering the fuselage, wings covered and
       painted=0A=0Ahelspersew(at)aol.com wrote:=0A> Everyone,=0A> =0A> I am curious
       as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to mov
      e it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to
       pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a 
      skid, especially have to address this problem.=0A> I was lying in bed last 
      night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse a
      lready.=0A> =0A> Dan Helsper=0A> Poplar Grove, IL=0A> Everything covered ex
      cept the wing=0A> =0A> ----------------------------------------------------
      --------------------=0A> Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and 
      money on AOL Shopping <http://shopping.aol.com/mothers-day-gifts-for-mom?nc
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L
      =======
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 
Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 
Tail handling
Date: 
May 08, 2009
      
      
      Air Camper NX41CC has common hardware store door handles attached to the lo
      wer longerons on both sides of the tail and I use the one on the port side 
      almost every time I move the airplane.  See
      http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P7090010.JPG and the handle is vis
      ible just aft of the roundel.
      
      
      I maneuver the airplane in and out of the hangar with a home-made tailwheel
       dolly=2C details at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dolly.html .  Such a 
      dolly could handle a tailskid as easily as it handles a tailwheel.
      
      
      Harvey=2C if I asked my wife to grab the tailwheel of the Piet and move it 
      out of the hangar for me=2C I'd be eating vienna sausages and crackers and 
      sleeping out on the street tonight.  Either that or she'd stuff me in the c
      ockpit of my @#$%& airplane and the tailwheel along with it.
      
      
      Oscar Zuniga
      Air Camper NX41CC
      San Antonio=2C TX
      mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
      website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: 
May 08, 2009
Subject: 
Varnish for Fuse Interior
From: 
Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com>
      
      Is any varnish acceptable for application to fuselage interiors?
      
      I'll leaning toward Home Depot Urethane..
      
      
      I know almost nothing about varnishing
      
      
      -- 
      
      Andrew M. Eldredge
      Sahuarita, AZ
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: Varnish for Fuse Interior
From: 
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: 
May 08, 2009
      
      
      Andrew
      
      You need to get hold of Rick Schreiber he is Mr coatings. Very knowledgeable and
      can provide the material you need.  I am using his finish and like it. 
      
      The good news is he's on the board and a Piet builder. I can provide you his contact
      info off list
      
      
      John 
      ------Original Message------
      From: Andrew M Eldredge
      Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
      ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
      Sent: May 8, 2009 3:50 PM
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnish for Fuse Interior
      
      Is any varnish acceptable for application to fuselage interiors?
      
       I'll leaning toward Home Depot Urethane..
      
      
       I know almost nothing about varnishing
      
      
      -- 
      
      Andrew M. Eldredge
      Sahuarita, AZ
      
      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Varnish for Fuse Interior
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
"Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
      
      Andrew,
      
      If you decide to go with urethane (as many have done), make sure you get
      Exterior Grade Spar Urethane. In addition to sealing the wood against
      moisture, it has UV blockers to help protect the wood against damage
      from the sun's UV rays.
      
      Bill C.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 
Re: footnote in Pietenpol history
Date: 
May 08, 2009
From: 
helspersew(at)aol.com
      
      This is the least we can do to honor a man with such foresight and enthusiasm.
      
      Dan Helsper
      Poplar Grove, IL.
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: lnawms(at)yahoo.com
      Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 7:12 am
      Subject: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history
      
      
      As I was reading a newly arrived aviation publication and reviewing some posts
      on this site, I recalled when I was a new enthusiast to the Pietenpol scene and
      the respect paid to Mr. Pietenpol was of the highest order. It was common knowledge
      that Mr. Pietenpol really, really, really?disliked being called "Bernie"so,
      nobody ever did.?He was addressed and referred to?as either Mr. Pietenpol
      or Bernard and if anyone new came along and slipped up they either got the evil
      eye or were politely informed of their infraction.
      
      ?
      
      In this day of overall decline in innocence and trust, it sure would be nice to
      hold on to at least a little scrap of honor?for a man who?gave us the gift?of
      building and flying something that hearkens back to a much?simpler and better?time
      in America.
      
      ?
      
      Please, no more "Bernie" for those of us who honor the man and his airplane.
      
      ?
      

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April 13, 2009 - May 08, 2009

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ho

---