Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-hq

May 25, 2009 - June 04, 2009



      
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From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: How do you wrap bungee cord?
Straight axle guys, Is there a secret to the method of wrapping that bungee cord? I have mine on (loosely) but trying to do it with one person is next to impossible without four hands. How did you secure the ends together? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL _____ Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America <http://www.aolhealth.com/diet/weight-loss-program/?ncid=emlcntusheal00 00000 1> Takes it Off to learn how. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: engine mount angle
Date: May 25, 2009
Raymond wrote- >I was considering whether to do anything with the thrust on my mount >of course if yours is for a real Piet it would no doubt be different >in fit than a GN-1 anyway. Shouldn't be. Same basic dimensions and geometry, similar weight & balance, and certainly the same V-speeds and attitude in climb. If any differences, they would be minor. Some GN-1s are built using complete wing and landing gear assemblies from certified aircraft, but DJ built his from scratch and used the undercamber airfoil profile so there shouldn't be much difference between your GN-1 and an Air Camper. Now it is true that the engine mount attach points are different in that DJ used standard spool-type mounts with bolts through the firewall, but the engine/airframe geometry should be the same. With the fuselage level (top longerons level), your engine mount tray should be a little lower in front than in back. I can calculate the angle if you want, but I'll bet DJ built it with a good offset in it. >D.J. said he added some angle of attack to the wing if I remember right >so maybe that will allow it to fly more level Actually, here's what he says about the incidence on his website: "The first thing I needed to do was confirm that my angle of incidence was going to be correct. It turns out that the GN-1 plans are not correct and give you only about .5 degrees of incidence. This is probably why most GN-1s fly "tail low". I did the math and figured I needed to raise the front cabane another .5". I did that by inserting a longer aluminum bar into the extruded strut. This gave me 1.5 degrees of incidence." You worry too much, Raymond ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: engine mount angle
Date: May 25, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Raymond / Oscar, My Pietenpol requires a little Left rudder, thus I do not have enough left thrust off set in the engine mount. Rudder and fin are mounted without offset. The left rudder pressure needed is almost nothing as it hardly deflects the rudder. I build the Motor mount as per Pietenpol plans but added William Wynne's suggested vibration mounts. These vibration?mounts do raise the engine by about an 1" These vibration mounts?need internal bushings which can help to create more or less offset, something I need to play with on the next annual. Regards Hans -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Sun, 24 May 2009 8:52 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine mount angle Raymond; Let's see if I change my message formatting to "plain text" if the extra "alphabet" doesn't show up in my posts whenever I add a comma or other punctuation. The Corvair engine mount design that you can get from the Pietenpol family incorporates the offset that Mr. Pietenpol used on his airplanes. The plans for that mount show the propeller end of the main cradle tubes 1" lower than the firewall end of the tubes but no left/right offset. I have not heard whether any of the PietVair pilots have needed to add rudder trim or other offset. Perhaps Hans will comment on how his PietVair flies, and if he built his mount according to the Pietenpol drawing dated 3-15-67. I have one of these engine mounts, built per this drawing, and can dig it out of the hangar and make measurements if you'd like. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Parts List
Date: May 25, 2009
Mark, Hope I caught you in time, just saw your post today. Here's a copy of the itemized quote from AS&S ( at 1998 prices.) They said they based it on the last sheet from a private builder. The list was right on for me. I built long fuselage three piece wing The one list from the builder has hand written notes by me to figure out what everything was when I inventoried it all. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Parts List > > I'm getting ready to place an order for my wood kit, and since I have to > pay freight, I'd like to get as much stuff as I can on this order... > especially all the larger stuff that will require a freight truck. > > I know I've seen some discussion of parts lists on the boards, but I've > searched for those threads and haven't come up with anything. As for the > wood, I've already got all the capstrip for my wing ribs (only a few left > to build), and I understand that in addition to the wood kit, I will need > ply for gussets, floor and sides, as well as fuselage standoff material. > I've identified several things that I'll need to order by studying the > prints, but I'd hate to leave something out that I've overlooked, or order > a part that should be substituted with something else. > > Does anyone have a parts list I can refer to prior to completing my order? > > Thanks! > > -------- > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245222#245222 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Parts List
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 25, 2009
Thanks for the info guys. Walt, the last image (walt_112) didn't come though. Was there any additional info on that page? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245272#245272 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: parts list #112 pic
Date: May 25, 2009
That's the list that AS&S based the quote on. It was right on for me. Anything in pencil , were my notes walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Parts List
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 25, 2009
I live in dallas. When I get done w/my ribs, I'm contemplating just driving out to AS east (Atlanta) and picking up the wood myself. It's just a 12hr drive each way. Perfect for a little get away/r&r. Now, if I just knew the dimentions of all the wood and if it's possible to haul it in a pickup truck. I may have to configure a big mailtube over the top of truck for the 3-piece wing spars that I plan to haul. Just a thought. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245280#245280 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: parts list #112 pic
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 25, 2009
Darn... the image just isn't coming through. I got the first three on the original post, but "walt_112" does not display at all on either attempt. I'm assuming that there is important info on that particular page, so I would like to see it. Any chance you can e-mail it to me directly? If so, please send it to k5yac-at-cox-dot-net. Thanks! -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245281#245281 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Parts List
Date: May 25, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Larry, You shouldn't have a problem fitting the wood in the back of a pickup truck. The biggest pieces would be the plywood (which should fit perfectly in the box of a full-size pickup). Other than that, the only "issues" would be the long pieces (spars and fuselage longerons), which are about 15 feet long. All the rest of the wood can be 8 ft long (or less), which would fit in the truck nicely. There used to be a photo on the Pietenpol family website that showed how small the "bundle" of wood was to build a Piet, but it looks like they redesigned the website and removed all of the pics. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Parts List
Date: May 25, 2009
Larry, Unless you've got a really long bed pickup, I think you'll need a rack on top such as you would use to carry a canoe. The three piece wing spars are 13 feet long each, and the longerons are over 16'. You'll need at least one 4' x 8' sheet of plywood, probably more. Think about it - you'll be driving 24 hours round trip in a truck that will get maybe 15 - 20 mpg. Gas alone will cost you $160 to $200 for the round trip. Unless you've got another reason to drive a truck to Atlanta, I'd seriously look into having a trucking company ship it. See if you can shop around on rates - they are highly variable. Now, if you get a trucking company to ship it, you will have to go pick it up at their dock or pay a lot for them to deliver it to your door. It is worth if for you to pick it up at their dock, but I doubt if it's worth it to drive all the way from Dallas to Atlanta to save $150 in shipping charges. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TriScout Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Parts List I live in dallas. When I get done w/my ribs, I'm contemplating just driving out to AS east (Atlanta) and picking up the wood myself. It's just a 12hr drive each way. Perfect for a little get away/r&r. Now, if I just knew the dimentions of all the wood and if it's possible to haul it in a pickup truck. I may have to configure a big mailtube over the top of truck for the 3-piece wing spars that I plan to haul. Just a thought. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245280#245280 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: parts list #112 pic
Date: May 25, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
That's weird. The image comes through fine over the real-time List, but does not come through over the Forum. Wonder what's going on there? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Parts List
Date: May 25, 2009
With a pickup and a rack anything is possible. Where there is a will there is a way. Just remember any sarran wrap goes from back to front and not the other way. Admitedly my ride was only about 5 hrs with this rig. Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> > > Unless you've got a really long bed pickup, I think you'll need a rack on > top such as you would use to carry a canoe. The three piece wing spars are > 13 feet long each, and the longerons are over 16'. You'll need at least one > 4' x 8' sheet of plywood, probably more. > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TriScout > > I live in dallas. When I get done w/my ribs, I'm contemplating just driving > out to AS east (Atlanta) and picking up the wood myself. It's just a 12hr > drive each way. Perfect for a little get away/r&r. Now, if I just knew the > dimentions of all the wood and if it's possible to haul it in a pickup > truck. I may have to configure a big mailtube over the top of truck for the > 3-piece wing spars that I plan to haul. Just a thought. > > Larry > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: parts list #112 pic
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 25, 2009
Hmmm, where do I find this "real-time list"? I'm only familiar with the forums. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245300#245300 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: parts list #112 pic
Date: May 25, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Mark, The Realtime subscription was what was available before the Forum existed. Try this to sign up: http://www.matronics.com/subscription/ The Realtime subscription sends you an email everytime anyone posts a message to the list. Attachments ARE allowed on the Realtime postings. The Digest subscription gets you one email per day, with all of the previous day's postings in one message. Attachments are NOT included in the Digest version. Still don't know why the image isn't going through on the Forum, though. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuel line thread sealant
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: May 25, 2009
OK I hope I get some help on this one-I'm trying to make up the fuel lines and have an aluminum tank with 3/8" thread and aluminum fittings and also a brass body valve and what appears to be a brass colored steel nipple.all threads subject to leaking and looks like at least one did when DJ made them up for test.I think I Will use Teflon tape being careful not to wrap the first thread but has anyone got a sure fire sealant that will stand up to both avgas and car gas? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245313#245313 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel line thread sealant
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 25, 2009
NEVER < NEVER use Teflon tape on any plumbing in the fuel system. The Fiesta Piet that came to Brodhead a few years ago, was having engine problems, guess what was found in the carb ? that Teflon tape. I have used the Teflon paste with no problems on 4 Piets. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245325#245325 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: fuel line thread sealant
Date: May 25, 2009
DO NOT USE TEFLON TAPE. I used "Sealube" from ACS on all my fuel system fittings. No leaks after 5 years of flying. Unfortunately you have to buy a quart of the stuff, which is an infinite supply. You will need a total of about a tablespoon for your entire fuel system. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:14 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel line thread sealant OK I hope I get some help on this one-I'm trying to make up the fuel lines and have an aluminum tank with 3/8" thread and aluminum fittings and also a brass body valve and what appears to be a brass colored steel nipple.all threads subject to leaking and looks like at least one did when DJ made them up for test.I think I Will use Teflon tape being careful not to wrap the first thread but has anyone got a sure fire sealant that will stand up to both avgas and car gas? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245313#245313 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: fuel line thread sealant
Date: May 25, 2009
I used Sealube also. I took a small pill bottle over to the local A & P and he gave me a dab (about a tablespoon). Much better than buying a whole can. I make it a point to not only stop in and BS every so often but I also take him a can of very cold pop on hot days and a hot cup of coffee on cold days. He always makes me feel welcome in his shop. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel line thread sealant > > > DO NOT USE TEFLON TAPE. > > I used "Sealube" from ACS on all my fuel system fittings. No leaks after > 5 > years of flying. Unfortunately you have to buy a quart of the stuff, > which > is an infinite supply. You will need a total of about a tablespoon for > your > entire fuel system. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown > flyer > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:14 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel line thread sealant > > > OK I hope I get some help on this one-I'm trying to make up the fuel lines > and have an aluminum tank with 3/8" thread and aluminum fittings and also > a > brass body valve and what appears to be a brass colored steel nipple.all > threads subject to leaking and looks like at least one did when DJ made > them > up for test.I think I Will use Teflon tape being careful not to wrap the > first thread but has anyone got a sure fire sealant that will stand up to > both avgas and car gas? Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245313#245313 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 18:14:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: fuel line thread sealant
I use Sealube also (and also "borrowed" from a friendly A&P). I found that it was useful to have a lot o disposable gloves handy and change them often. Otherwise you end up like a cartoon character spreading the sticky stuff everywhere! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: fuel line thread sealant
Date: May 25, 2009
I'm with Jack all the way... NO teflon tape on fuel or oil fittings. I used "EZ Turn", which is the same as fuel lube, available from Aircraft Spruce or from your neighborhood aircraft supply house ;o) Aircraft Spruce shows a 5 oz. tube available along with a 1 lb. can, and like Jack says, a little goes a long way. I bought the can ($22) since the 5 oz. tube costs $11 but even the tube is probably more than a lifetime supply unless you run an A&P shop. The stuff never goes bad, never hardens, and is resistant to all the fuels and oils you're likely to find in aircraft. The one thing about it is that it is worse than honey. It will find its way onto you no matter how careful you are, and it's a bit sticky. I keep a popsicle stick on top of the can lid to use as a spreader since I don't like to spread it with my finger, but the stuff isn't toxic or anything. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel line thread sealant
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: May 25, 2009
Thanks for the good responses.i have known how Teflon tape gets into things if used wrong for years.I use it every day at work.but I'm careful to not wrap the first thread and when fittings are removed they always shed some in the fitting.I expect 9/10's of the problems are from folks that take them back apart and then put them back together again without thoroughly cleaning out the remains.but I'll either try the Teflon paste or get some fuel lube from my friendly mechanic.i used to get it to lube the selector valve and gas cap gaskets on my tri-pacer.but didn't keep any extra.I mainly want to insure i don't gall any threads as well as seal it up.guess either one should guard against that.the heavy aluminum bung welded to the bottom of the tank is very thick so I shouldn't have to worry about splitting it.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245347#245347 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Buckeye Piets and Pietple
Date: May 26, 2009
Don, That is the same weekend as our Hales Landing spring picnic. I would only be able to come up Sunday, would there still be stuff going on? Skip > [Original Message] > From: Don Emch <EmchAir(at)aol.com> > To: > Date: 5/16/2009 11:25:04 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Buckeye Piets and Pietple > > > For the Ohio Piets and the Ohio Pietple, Barber Airport is having their annual Auto Engine Conversion Fly-in on June 5,6,and7. I talked to Forrest Barber and he said he is also listing it as including Pietenpols. There are two Piets hangared there and will be there for the fly-in. They are Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy and Allen Rudolph's 1934-ish Piet that Frank just acquired. Both of these are a real treat to see. I'm planning to fly mine over. Mike, Skip, Shad, and any others, it sure would be cool to have a nice Pietenpol turn out. Any of you guys up for a little gathering? > > For those of you that know some of the familiar faces that have attended Brodhead over the years, I heard some sad news yesterday. Will Graff, from Wadsworth, Ohio passed away a couple of weeks ago. I, like many others, enjoyed many Brodhead afternoons sitting on the grass in the shade talking with him and enjoying his Piet. He'll be missed. > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244321#244321 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Parts List
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 26, 2009
Yeah, I am hereby enlightened. That all makes sense to me. I guess it's better to just wait out the delivery time and let the pro's (UPS Ground) do the shipping.. Thanks for the input (reality check).. Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245379#245379 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Wing construction complete
Date: May 26, 2009
Well 90% complete anyway. I want to thank all the guys who helped assemble my wings at Sun n Fun, Dick, P F, Don, Art, Jim, John, Randy, ED, and Bill Rewey for advise. Built the ribs 1990, built the spars 1994, and the aileron spars sometime in between. Cut the L/E, T/E, and struts early April and hulled everything from W Virginia to Lakeland. We assembled all the pieces at the wood shop tent. The trailer tongue broke twice, once on the way down and also on the way back, no damage and now I have two wings hanging in the hangar. Still have to add the butt ribs and a couple struts before I varnish the wings and hang up again and get back the the fuse. What a blast, just 18 years from rib jig to assembled wings ;) Skip P.S.Tried to send this message in early May, but have been having trouble sending email. skipgadd(at)earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2009
Subject: Steve Raddatz Died. :(
From: Dave Case <dav3xor(at)gmail.com>
I met Steve at Oshkosh a couple years ago while working for Advanced Flight. We were at the RV BBQ and I let slip that I was building a Pietenpol. Steve exclaimed, "I built a Pietenpol! Takes off at 60, flies at 60, and lands at 60! You know why they call it an Aircamper dontcha? Because when you are in the pattern, you are camping!" I always looked forward to seeing him at the shows, and now I won't. -- David Case Dav3xor(at)gmail.com www.builddiary.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 26, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of airworthy WWI replicas on display (Fokker Triplane and Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter). One of the things I noticed was the wheels that were used on these replicas. They used alloy wheels, as opposed to spoked wheels. Since these are aircraft that fly regularly, obviously they work. I don't know how this type of wheel compares to a traditional spoked wheel, in terms of weight or strength, and if left exposed would be ugly (in my opinion). In this situation, they covered the wheels (al least on the outboard side) so they weren't obvious. My guess is that this type of wheel would not be as tough as a traditional spoked wheel. This "highly scientific" opinion is based solely on the fact that I don't recall ever seeing a dirt bike with alloy wheels. I figure that dirt bikes would be subjected to much more abuse and rough handling than street bikes, and thus would be made to handle abuse. So, my question is: Anyone out there know anything about alloy motorcycle wheels (as compared to spoked wheels), specifically, strength and weight comparisons and suitability for Pietenpol use? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Raddatz Died. :(
Date: May 26, 2009
That is sad news. I never met the guy, but I do remember his name for making some very unflattering comments about Pietenpols to the (non-aviation) news media at the last SNF. I'm sure he didn't mean it quite the way it was presented, but it's a good object lesson for us all on how even tongue-in-cheek comments are so often spun by the media to portray aviation in the most negative light possible. --------------- http://www.theledger.com/article/20090420/NEWS/904205048/1153/NEWS11?Title=B uilding-Planes-From-a-Kit-No-Problem-for-Alabama-Man Published: Monday, April 20, 2009 at 12:01 a.m. Last Modified: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 at 1:06 a.m. LAKELAND For Stave Raddatz, building a kit plane has become second nature. Raddatz, 41, has built 22 so far, including a helicopter, a Sonex, a Harmon Rocket and a Pietenpol Air Camper. Why the name Air Camper? Raddatz smiles. "If you take off and leave the flight pattern, you're camping. You'll never make it home." The latest home-built job for Raddatz, from Muscle Shoals, Ala., is his Van's RV 10, a four-seater that travels 200 mph. He just finished the plane and didn't have time to paint it before the Fly-In. "I'll paint it after the show," he said. Raddatz has gotten so smooth as a plane maker that it took just three months to build the RV 10. His hobby of building planes fits. In the work world, he owns Hobby Town USA in Muscle Shoals --------------- Mike Whaley MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Case" <dav3xor(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 12:55 PM Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Steve Raddatz Died. :( > I met Steve at Oshkosh a couple years ago while working for Advanced > Flight. We were at the RV BBQ and I let slip that I was building a > Pietenpol. > > Steve exclaimed, "I built a Pietenpol! Takes off at 60, flies at 60, and > lands at 60! You know why they call it an Aircamper dontcha? Because when > you are in the pattern, you are camping!" > > I always looked forward to seeing him at the shows, and now I won't. > -- > David Case > Dav3xor(at)gmail.com > www.builddiary.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2009
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
If you are going to cover them up anyhow as many do with spoke wheels why not? Question is what do they cost? Rick On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of > airworthy WWI replicas on display (Fokker Triplane and Sopwith 1 1/2 > Strutter). One of the things I noticed was the wheels that were used on > these replicas. They used alloy wheels, as opposed to spoked wheels. Since > these are aircraft that fly regularly, obviously they work. I don't know how > this type of wheel compares to a traditional spoked wheel, in terms of > weight or strength, and if left exposed would be ugly (in my opinion). In > this situation, they covered the wheels (al least on the outboard side) so > they weren't obvious. My guess is that this type of wheel would not be as > tough as a traditional spoked wheel. This "highly scientific" opinion is > based solely on the fact that I don't recall ever seeing a dirt bike with > alloy wheels. I figure that dirt bikes would be subjected to much more abuse > and rough handling than street bikes, and thus would be made to handle > abuse. > So, my question is: Anyone out there know anything about alloy motorcycle > wheels (as compared to spoked wheels), specifically, strength and weight > comparisons and suitability for Pietenpol use? > > Bill C. > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2009
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
I've been seeing these in the $50-$75 range on ebay. On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 2:48 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > If you are going to cover them up anyhow as many do with spoke wheels why > not? Question is what do they cost? > > Rick > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Bill Church wrote: > >> >> I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of >> airworthy WWI replicas on display (Fokker Triplane and Sopwith 1 1/2 >> Strutter). One of the things I noticed was the wheels that were used on >> these replicas. They used alloy wheels, as opposed to spoked wheels. Since >> these are aircraft that fly regularly, obviously they work. I don't know how >> this type of wheel compares to a traditional spoked wheel, in terms of >> weight or strength, and if left exposed would be ugly (in my opinion). In >> this situation, they covered the wheels (al least on the outboard side) so >> they weren't obvious. My guess is that this type of wheel would not be as >> tough as a traditional spoked wheel. This "highly scientific" opinion is >> based solely on the fact that I don't recall ever seeing a dirt bike with >> alloy wheels. I figure that dirt bikes would be subjected to much more abuse >> and rough handling than street bikes, and thus would be made to handle >> abuse. >> So, my question is: Anyone out there know anything about alloy motorcycle >> wheels (as compared to spoked wheels), specifically, strength and weight >> comparisons and suitability for Pietenpol use? >> >> Bill C. >> > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > * > > * > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Urethane on wing ribs
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 26, 2009
I'm getting ready to apply Minwax Spar urethane to my wing ribs, but I want to be sure that I'm not applying it where I intend to use glue later. I've taped off the areas where the spars, leading edge and trailing edge will be installed. Is there anywhere else I should be cautious? I thought I read that a portion of the wing is supposed to be sheeted, but I can't find it in the plans. Is this correct, or perhaps I read about that on another build. Perhaps someone can refresh my memory, or offer some pointers? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245466#245466 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 26, 2009
I wish I knew more about the strength / weight issue as I've been intereste d in trying this for a while... Now that I've seen someone else has done i t successfully=2C it gives me more courage to do it - although without any science per se'. I know the cost is significantly less. For instance=2C I see Harley Sportster wheels (cast) on ebay / craigslist / at your local de aler for sale for about 1/2 what the spoked rims cost. Plus they're much more plentiful. Tom B. Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cast motorcycle wheels Date: Tue=2C 26 May 2009 11:29:49 -0400 From: eng(at)canadianrogers.com I was at an aviation event on the weekend=2C and there were a couple of airworthy WWI replicas on disp lay (Fokker Triplane and Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter). One of the things I noticed w as the wheels that were used on these replicas. They used alloy wheels=2C as opposed to spoked wheels. Since these are aircraft that fly regularly=2C ob viously they work. I don't know how this type of wheel compares to a traditional spoked wheel=2C in terms of weight or strength=2C and if left exposed would be ugly (in my opinion). In this situation=2C they covered the wheels (al least on the outboard side) so they weren't obvious. My guess is that this type of wheel would not be as tough as a traditional spoked wheel. This "highly scientific" opinion is based solely on the fact that I don't recall ever seeing a dirt bike with alloy wheels. I figure that dirt bikes would be subjected to much more abuse and rough handling than street bikes=2C and th us would be made to handle abuse. So=2C my question is: Anyone out there know anything about alloy motorcycle wheels (as compared to spoked wheels)=2C specifically=2C strength and weight comparisons and su itability for Pietenpol use? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Urethane on wing ribs
Date: May 26, 2009
Depends on what process you are using for covering. If using the Stits PolyFiber process, make sure that PolyTak or PolyBrush won't "lift" the varnish. The safest thing to use at least on the rib capstrips is PolyFiber's epoxy varnish. It's durn near bulletproof. The leading edge is sheeted with plywood from the leading edge to the front spar, on top of the wing. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Urethane on wing ribs I'm getting ready to apply Minwax Spar urethane to my wing ribs, but I want to be sure that I'm not applying it where I intend to use glue later. I've taped off the areas where the spars, leading edge and trailing edge will be installed. Is there anywhere else I should be cautious? I thought I read that a portion of the wing is supposed to be sheeted, but I can't find it in the plans. Is this correct, or perhaps I read about that on another build. Perhaps someone can refresh my memory, or offer some pointers? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245466#245466 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2009
From: <billmz(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Teflon sealant for fuel lines
You can find a similar Teflon thread sealant paste at your local auto parts stores. LocTite sells pretty much the same thing in a smaller tube (@ 2oz or so). I have used this on several cars for both fuel, lubrication and coolant systems with no leaks for more than 10 years now. Works great. Never really hardens either. The 2 oz tube will last for years as well. Look for it in the same section as regular gasket sealants and RTV. Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL / Baton Rouge LA Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel line thread sealant From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> Thanks for the good responses.i have known how Teflon tape gets into things if used wrong for years.I use it every day at work.but I'm careful to not wrap the first thread and when fittings are removed they always shed some in the fitting.I expect 9/10's of the problems are from folks that take them back apart and then put them back together again without thoroughly cleaning out the remains.but I'll either try the Teflon paste or get some fuel lube from my friendly mechanic.i used to get it to lube the selector valve and gas cap gaskets on my tri-pacer.but didn't keep any extra.I mainly want to insure i don't gall any threads as well as seal it up.guess either one should guard against that.the heavy aluminum bung welded to the bottom of the tank is very thick so I shouldn't have to worry about splitting it.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245347#245347 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 26, 2009
I will be using Suzuki 19" ones. I have made hub extensions and will be making 10" drum brakes for them. I'd always planned on covered wheels anyway. I got these at a used motorcycle yard four years ago. I think I paid $30 each. ( That would have been $25 US at the time.) Clif Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cast motorcycle wheels I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of airworthy WWI replicas on display (Fokker Triplane and Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter). One of the things I noticed was the wheels that were used on these replicas. They used alloy wheels, as opposed to spoked wheels. Bill C. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05/26/09 20:20:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: fuel line thread sealant
Date: May 26, 2009
Another vote for EZ turn. I bought the tube, which is more than I'll use in a couple decades. After doing all the fuel lines on the plane, the tube still appears to be full. Good stuff. Steve Ruse Norman, OK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel line thread sealant > > > I'm with Jack all the way... NO teflon tape on fuel or oil fittings. > I used "EZ Turn", which is the same as fuel lube, available from > Aircraft Spruce or from your neighborhood aircraft supply house ;o) > Aircraft Spruce shows a 5 oz. tube available along with a 1 lb. can, > and like Jack says, a little goes a long way. I bought the can ($22) > since the 5 oz. tube costs $11 but even the tube is probably more than > a lifetime supply unless you run an A&P shop. The stuff never goes bad, > never hardens, and is resistant to all the fuels and oils you're likely > to find in aircraft. > > The one thing about it is that it is worse than honey. It will find its > way onto you no matter how careful you are, and it's a bit sticky. I > keep a popsicle stick on top of the can lid to use as a spreader since I > don't like to spread it with my finger, but the stuff isn't toxic or > anything. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 26, 2009
Cliff=2C What's the weight? From: CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cast motorcycle wheels Date: Tue=2C 26 May 2009 19:52:21 -0700 I will be using Suzuki 19" ones. I have made hub extensions and will be making 10" drum brakes for them. I'd always planned on covered wheels anyway. I got these at a used motorcycle yard four years ago. I think I paid $30 each. ( That would have been $25 US at the time.) Clif Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cast motorcycle wheels I was at an aviation event on the weekend=2C and there were a couple of airworthy WWI replicas on display (Fokker Triplane and Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter). One of the things I noticed was the wheels that were used on these replicas. They used alloy wheels=2C as opposed to spoked wheels. Bill C. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.41/2136 - Release Date: 05/26/09 20:20:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Urethane on wing ribs
Date: May 27, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Mark, If you are going to use the Stewart System you can use whatever spar varnish you choose. There are no solvents in the glue. I am currently using this system for my covering. I highly recommend it so far. The glue is some sort of rubber based product that is a dream compared to the MEK based glues. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Urethane on wing ribs
Date: May 27, 2009
Dan The answer is yes. We used the spar varnish available at the local Home Depot and it worked great. We put on 2 coats. Be sure to scrape off any drips or runs before you start covering. After covering 6 airplanes with Stewart, I'll never use MEK based stuff again. The top color is another story. Barry _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:29 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Urethane on wing ribs Mark, If you are going to use the Stewart System you can use whatever spar varnish you choose. There are no solvents in the glue. I am currently using this system for my covering. I highly recommend it so far. The glue is some sort of rubber based product that is a dream compared to the MEK based glues. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL. _____ Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America <http://www.aolhealth.com/diet/weight-loss-program/?ncid=emlcntusheal0000000 1> Takes it Off to learn how. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Top color - Stewart System
Date: May 27, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Barry, Please comment on your experiences with the Stewart top color coats. Thanks. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 27, 2009
Subject: KFLV
I may be sent to Leavenworth, Kansas for a year. NO not the prison, Fort Leavenworth the military base, for a school. Does anyone have any experience with KFLV? I know that it is a military runway with a civilian FBO. This allows the Army to spread some costs and the city of Leavenworth to get acess to a cheap airport. I spoke with the Military flying club manager and he said that they have some group hanger space, but it is tight. He said a guy with a Bonanza may be leaving and I might could have his slot for my Vtail Bonanza. Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 27, 2009
Subject: Re: KFLV
Isn't that where the president is looking to send the Guantanamo detainees? hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm **************Dinner Made Easy Newsletter - Simple Meal Ideas for Your Family. Sign Up Now! 3Fhttp:%2F%2Frecipes.dinnermadeeasy.com%2F%3FESRC%3D622) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2009
Subject: Re: Urethane on wing ribs
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Barry What are you guys using to finish paint your fabric and aluminum? Rick On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Barry Davis wrote: > Dan > The answer is yes. We used the spar varnish available at the local Home > Depot and it worked great. We put on 2 coats. Be sure to scrape off any > drips or runs before you start covering. > After covering 6 airplanes with Stewart, I'll never use MEK based stuff > again. The top color is another story. > Barry > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of * > helspersew(at)aol.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:29 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Urethane on wing ribs > > Mark, > > If you are going to use the Stewart System you can use whatever spar > varnish you choose. There are no solvents in the glue. I am currently using > this system for my covering. I highly recommend it so far. The glue is some > sort of rubber based product that is a dream compared to the MEK based > glues. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove IL. > > > ------------------------------ > Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off<http://www.aolhealth.com/diet/weight-loss-program/?ncid=emlcntusheal00000001>to learn how. > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: KFLV
Date: May 27, 2009
Steven, I have flown in and out of there is the C-12 and as a civil pilot, nice airport and some great things to do in and around the Kansas city area. As to there hangers and space there are two large hangers and I have never seen them full, so I would think you would have very little possible damage to your aircraft. Chet KJEF 125nm east. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: KFLV > > > I may be sent to Leavenworth, Kansas for a year. NO not the prison, Fort > Leavenworth the military base, for a school. > > Does anyone have any experience with KFLV? I know that it is a military > runway with a civilian FBO. This allows the Army to spread some costs and > the city of Leavenworth to get acess to a cheap airport. I spoke with the > Military flying club manager and he said that they have some group hanger > space, but it is tight. He said a guy with a Bonanza may be leaving and I > might could have his slot for my Vtail Bonanza. > > Blue Skies, > > Steve D > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: KFLV
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 27, 2009
Chet Hartley at KJEF eh? Do you have any family in St. Martins? Just curious... I grew up in that neck of the woods (JCHS class of 90) and had a friend named Roger Hartley. Ok, back to KFLV discussion... -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245637#245637 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Urethane on wing ribs
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 27, 2009
I like the System3 Clear Coat for an epoxy varnish.. it is really thin, goes on easy (can run a bit). With it you can do the whole rib then when you use some T88 to put on the leading edge wrap it is compatible with it, if you put the wrap on soon you don't have to do anything special, if you wait a few weeks or more you should scuff it so the T88 can get a bite on it. The Stewart Systems stuff doesn't require epoxy varnish, I used it on all the gluing surfaces anyway, just in case a decade from now I want to use something other than Stewart Systems. The rest of the wood inside the wings I went with Minwax Polycrylic.. used it for all kinds of things, it drys fast, is tough and fairly cheap, and doesn't smell like epoxy varnish. Love the look of the System3 clear coat, one of the suppliers had it 3 quarts for $99. I suspect that would be enough to do an entire piet's woodwork. Bought a smaller size and have been trying to make it last. JimD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245636#245636 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Urethane on wing ribs
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 27, 2009
Thanks for all the info... I've got 5 ribs coated with the Minwax urethane. Seems to be going fine... it is thin so it applies easily. I'm also reading about the Stewart System covering. I am quite a ways from being ready to cover anything, but I know virtually nothing about it... so I'll keep reading the instructions, and the mail. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245639#245639 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking for Parts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 27, 2009
I'm studying the plans in order to get as much material on my freight order as I can, especially where completing the wing is concerned. Unfortunately, my lack of experience is getting the best of me. The wing plans call for 325 SF turnbuckles and 13GA hard wire for the drag/anti drag cable installation. So, I'm scouring the Aircraft Spruce catalog (both print and online), but I am unable to find the type of turnbuckle as it is called out. Do I just pick one? Kind of difficult given that there seems to be some variety. I mean, I can pretty much figure out what type ends would be useful, but I'm not even sure what the 325 SF stands for in order to make a comparison. As for 13GA hard wire... I find stranded wire, music wire, safety wire, Inconel wire for cutting, but no single stranded 13GA wire. Is there something else that is used nowadays? Perhaps stranded of another gauge? Also, the smallest thimbles and sleeves they have listed are for 1/16" cable, which is twice the diameter of the recommended 14 and 13GA wire called for in much of the build. Maybe I'm just overlooking these things? Perhaps there are alternatives I am unfamiliar with? I've been goofing around with some of the easier tasks for weeks (wing ribs), and now it seems that some of the obvious components are not so obvious after all. Recommendations? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245653#245653 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Looking for Parts
Date: May 28, 2009
Mark, Check out my web site http://www.cpc-world.com. Go to "Aircraft Systems" > "Controls & Brakes". There are details of the turnbuckles, cable etc I used. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Parts I'm studying the plans in order to get as much material on my freight order as I can, especially where completing the wing is concerned. Unfortunately, my lack of experience is getting the best of me. The wing plans call for 325 SF turnbuckles and 13GA hard wire for the drag/anti drag cable installation. So, I'm scouring the Aircraft Spruce catalog (both print and online), but I am unable to find the type of turnbuckle as it is called out. Do I just pick one? Kind of difficult given that there seems to be some variety. I mean, I can pretty much figure out what type ends would be useful, but I'm not even sure what the 325 SF stands for in order to make a comparison. As for 13GA hard wire... I find stranded wire, music wire, safety wire, Inconel wire for cutting, but no single stranded 13GA wire. Is there something else that is used nowadays? Perhaps stranded of another gauge? Also, the smallest thimbles and sleeves they have listed are for 1/16" cable, which is twice the diameter of the recommended 14 and 13GA wire called for in much of the build. Maybe I'm just overlooking these things? Perhaps there are alternatives I am unfamiliar with? I've been goofing around with some of the easier tasks for weeks (wing ribs), and now it seems that some of the obvious components are not so obvious after all. Recommendations? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245653#245653 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 27, 2009
12 lb for the wheel including the hub extension. 24 lb with tire. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Cliff, What's the weight? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- I will be using Suzuki 19" ones. I have made hub extensions and will be making 10" drum brakes for them. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 27, 2009
Thanks Peter... you've confirmed some of my suspicions. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245658#245658 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 27, 2009
Am I to understand that to mean 48 pounds for just the wheels and tires? I have no idea if that is reasonable or not... just sounds like a lot to me. Kind of surprising I guess. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245663#245663 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 27, 2009
How much for wire ones? Clif > > Am I to understand that to mean 48 pounds for just the wheels and tires? > I have no idea if that is reasonable or not... just sounds like a lot to > me. Kind of surprising I guess. > > -------- > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245663#245663 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 18:21:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 28, 2009
12# for the rubber tire and tube? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cast motorcycle wheels 12 lb for the wheel including the hub extension. 24 lb with tire. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Cliff, What's the weight? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- I will be using Suzuki 19" ones. I have made hub extensions and will be making 10" drum brakes for them. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Brodhead dates
Date: May 28, 2009
Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead this year, I need it quickly to arrange for the days off! Thanks, Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Brodhead dates
Date: May 28, 2009
Hi Gene, Brodhead is Friday, July 24 - Sunday, July 26. Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead dates Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead this year, I need it quickly to arrange for the days off! Thanks, Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: wire wheel weights
Date: May 28, 2009
Over the years, I've talked to everybody I could who actually had wire wheels, and weighed a bunch myself. There are many variables such as alloy vs steel rims, number of plys in the tire, brakes, no brakes etc, etc. The lightest wheels, without brakes I've weighed or heard about was 18lbs for one wheel, tire, tube with bushings installed. 24 lbs is about the heaviest I've heard of, especially if this doesn't include brakes. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: wire wheel weights
Date: May 28, 2009
What is the average weight of wheels and tires for "Cub style" gear? Brian SLC, UT -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:25 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights Over the years, I've talked to everybody I could who actually had wire wheels, and weighed a bunch myself. There are many variables such as alloy vs steel rims, number of plys in the tire, brakes, no brakes etc, etc. The lightest wheels, without brakes I've weighed or heard about was 18lbs for one wheel, tire, tube with bushings installed. 24 lbs is about the heaviest I've heard of, especially if this doesn't include brakes. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Brodhead dates
Date: May 28, 2009
Correction! I believe, this year it is Thursday through Saturday because of the early departure to EAA on Sunday. R. Bukolt NX20795 On May 28, 2009, at 7:22 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > Hi Gene, > > Brodhead is Friday, July 24 ' Sunday, July 26. > > Jack Phillips > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:56 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead dates > > Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead this year, I need > it quickly to arrange for the days off! > > Thanks, > > Gene > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking for Parts
Date: May 28, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Mark, Most builders today use aircraft cable rather than the hard wire called for in the plans. If you choose to use hard wire, you'll probably need to make quite a few practice fittings to get the hang of working with solid wire. Also, be very careful not to nick or damage the wire, as this could lead to failure of the wire. I'm not sure where you're getting your info regarding wire gages. You say 1/16" (.062") cable is TWICE the diameter of 14GA or 13GA wire? I think if you check again, you'll see that isn't the case. Wire gages can be confusing because there are several different systems. For that reason, it is becoming common practice today to refer to the actual diameter in decimal inches or millimeters. Back in 1929, when the plans were drawn up, people used gages to denote wire thicknesses, but rarely would specify which system of wire gages they were referring to. Probably the most commonly used wire gage system today is the American Wire Gage (AWG) - but that is for copper wire, and is based on electrical resistivity. Do not use AWG for steel wires. Typically steel wires available today would be either US Steel Wire Gage or British Standard Wire Gage. For either of these, 13GA is approximately 0.092" and 14GA is approximately 0.080" diameter. As you can see, these are both considerably BIGGER than 1/16". Here is a handy link to some old documents regarding soild wires in aircraft use. http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/PianoWire.shtml And, from the same website, here's a step-by-step run-through of one builder's method of fabricating wire ends, using music wire and cable thimbles: http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/DragWires.shtml Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Looking for Parts
Date: May 28, 2009
Mark, Bill is correct when he says most people use stranded aircraft cable. For the drag/anti-drag wires in the wing, I used 1 x 19 stainless cable, with standard AN turnbuckles. I wrapped the cable around thimbles and used Nicopress fittings to secure the cable. Not a fun job. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Looking for Parts Mark, Most builders today use aircraft cable rather than the hard wire called for in the plans. If you choose to use hard wire, you'll probably need to make quite a few practice fittings to get the hang of working with solid wire. Also, be very careful not to nick or damage the wire, as this could lead to failure of the wire. I'm not sure where you're getting your info regarding wire gages. You say 1/16" (.062") cable is TWICE the diameter of 14GA or 13GA wire? I think if you check again, you'll see that isn't the case. Wire gages can be confusing because there are several different systems. For that reason, it is becoming common practice today to refer to the actual diameter in decimal inches or millimeters. Back in 1929, when the plans were drawn up, people used gages to denote wire thicknesses, but rarely would specify which system of wire gages they were referring to. Probably the most commonly used wire gage system today is the American Wire Gage (AWG) - but that is for copper wire, and is based on electrical resistivity. Do not use AWG for steel wires. Typically steel wires available today would be either US Steel Wire Gage or British Standard Wire Gage. For either of these, 13GA is approximately 0.092" and 14GA is approximately 0.080" diameter. As you can see, these are both considerably BIGGER than 1/16". Here is a handy link to some old documents regarding soild wires in aircraft use. http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/PianoWire.shtml And, from the same website, here's a step-by-step run-through of one builder's method of fabricating wire ends, using music wire and cable thimbles: http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/DragWires.shtml Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slightly off topic - Pictures from Chino
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: May 28, 2009
A friend sent me this link to some incredible war-bird pictures. Thought I would share them. Enjoy. http://home.comcast.net/~bzee1b/Chino/Chino.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245739#245739 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 28, 2009
Great stuff guys. I feel much more confident I'll be ordering the right stuff with your input. Bill, you are exactly right, I was comparing to AWG. Apples to oranges as they say. I was actually looking at the more rigid 19x1 for the drag/anti drag application, as it states in the literature that it is good for that purpose. Thanks again guys! -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245741#245741 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic - Pictures from Chino
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 28, 2009
Great pics. Thanks for sharing. As a veteran of the 82nd Airborne Division, I especially likes the reenactment photos. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245745#245745 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Brodhead
From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net>
Date: May 28, 2009
Maybe a dumb question but, exactly where is Brodhead? Are there tent camping facilities for drive ins? Thanks......... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245757#245757 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: Brodhead
Date: May 28, 2009
Here is a map, sort of. Due west of Janesville, WI. John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On May 28, 2009, at 3:49 PM, Will42 wrote: > > Maybe a dumb question but, exactly where is Brodhead? Are there tent > camping facilities for drive ins? Thanks......... > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245757#245757 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 28, 2009
My wire wheels with tire and tube, and brake drum, was 8 or 9# each. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels > > How much for wire ones? > > Clif > > >> >> Am I to understand that to mean 48 pounds for just the wheels and tires? >> I have no idea if that is reasonable or not... just sounds like a lot to >> me. Kind of surprising I guess. >> >> -------- >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245663#245663 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 18:21:00 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels-pics
Date: May 28, 2009
Bought the rims, Harley Davidson spokes, I have part number if anyone needs it. Made the hubs on my Harbor Freight mini-lathe. JC Whitney tires and tubes walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels > My wire wheels with tire and tube, and brake drum, was 8 or 9# each. > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 2:41 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels > > >> >> How much for wire ones? >> >> Clif >> >> >> >>> >>> Am I to understand that to mean 48 pounds for just the wheels and tires? >>> I have no idea if that is reasonable or not... just sounds like a lot to >>> me. Kind of surprising I guess. >>> >>> -------- >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245663#245663 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> 18:21:00 >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Brodhead
Date: May 28, 2009
Brodhead is just north of the Illinois state line, south of Madison. Tent camping is allowed and there are limited shower facilities (usually cold). They charge you $10 to camp there. There is a pork chop dinner on Saturday night - buy the tickets early or they will run out. It's the best two or three days of the entire year. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Will42 Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Maybe a dumb question but, exactly where is Brodhead? Are there tent camping facilities for drive ins? Thanks......... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245757#245757 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2009
Subject: Re: Brodhead dates
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
You are correct: http://www.pietenpols.org/id5.html Ryan On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Roman Bukolt wrote : > Correction! I believe, this year it is Thursday through Saturday because > of the early departure to EAA on Sunday. > R. Bukolt NX20795 > On May 28, 2009, at 7:22 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > Hi Gene, > > Brodhead is Friday, July 24 ' Sunday, July 26. > > Jack Phillips > > ------------------------------ > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Gene Rambo > *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:56 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Brodhead dates > > Can someone give me the exact dates for Brodhead this year, I need it > quickly to arrange for the days off! > > Thanks, > > Gene > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 2009
And definitely an event worth top billing ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phillips Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: May 28, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Brodhead is just north of the Illinois state line, south of Madison. Tent camping is allowed and there are limited shower facilities (usually cold). They charge you $10 to camp there. There is a pork chop dinner on Saturday night - buy the tickets early or they will run out. It's the best two or three days of the entire year. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Will42 Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Maybe a dumb question but, exactly where is Brodhead? Are there tent camping facilities for drive ins? Thanks......... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245757#245757 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet's Mail" <Chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: KFLV
Date: May 28, 2009
Mark, Sorry we are transplants from Ohio 21 years now. Chet ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: KFLV > > Chet Hartley at KJEF eh? Do you have any family in St. Martins? Just > curious... I grew up in that neck of the woods (JCHS class of 90) and had > a friend named Roger Hartley. > > Ok, back to KFLV discussion... > > -------- > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245637#245637 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 28, 2009
I found alot of good tips on making those little parts from this site from Germany. I may refer to this site when I come to a point where I need an answer. www.fokker-team-schorndorf.de Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245810#245810 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts
From: "TriScout" <apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 28, 2009
Probably should have posted this forum w/ same guy making turnbuckles. I believe he'll sell them, but not sure on the price. http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/replica-aircraft/32129-fts-projects-13.html Lar Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245813#245813 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2009
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotionally to the Piet by various =91conflicting desires=92: wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno=85 I live in Fresno CA where summer temps ar e often in the high 90=92s-100=92s and a plexiglass cockpit needs much coolin g), side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul=85). So, why was it I didn=92t want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn=92t I want to bu ild a Piet? So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of California that might be building Piets. I=92m 6=924, 250 lbs (but hey, I =92m dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24=94 =85 Cramped? Thanks! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cast motorcycle wheels
Date: May 28, 2009
It's tubeless. I checked again and it's 12#. It's a 100/90 X 19 4ply. This came with the wheel and will be replaced before flight. The other wheel had no tire and I want both the same. Clif 12# for the rubber tire and tube? walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: May 28, 2009
Mark, There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramento (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/> ), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. Obviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in mine. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotionally to the Piet by various 'conflicting desires': wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno. I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are often in the high 90's-100's and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cooling), side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul.). So, why was it I didn't want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn't I want to build a Piet? So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of California that might be building Piets. I'm 6'4, 250 lbs (but hey, I'm dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24". Cramped? Thanks! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2009
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Gary! I might take you up on that sometime. We try to get up to Reno or Tahoe during the summer months, but this year might be too full already. Graduating Seniors (twin daughters) this year and bunches of family stuff, but I'd like to sit in a Piet to test my size verses the 24" width. Andrew Piet dropped me a note yesterday saying that the width could be made wider with no problem, and that (and my leg room) are the biggest concerns. I pla n to make the longest fuse design, and to use a Corvair engine. Will eventually look for a core and Wynne's book on building one, but I gotta ge t the plans first. I am selling my Corbin Jr Ace, Corbin Baby Ace, and Pober Jr. Ace plans, as well as my Dragonfly II plans (once thought faster glass was the ticket...). In fact, I need to post them on Barnstormers.com tonight... Thank you for the heads up on the builds. I am in Tulare frequently with my job, so I might see if I can connect with Mike. I hope to be knee deep in wood this summer... :o) Mark On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > Mark, > > > There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacrament o > (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almos t > on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. Obviously, Mike is closest and monit ors > this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in mine. > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, Ca. > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > (13 ribs down=85) > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Roberts > *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? > > > Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and > consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Pie t > was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have > emotionally to the Piet by various =91conflicting desires=92: wanting an > enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno=85 I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are > often in the high 90=92s-100=92s and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cool ing), > side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at th e > scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I > plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul=85). > > > So, why was it I didn=92t want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build > something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time a s I > have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. > > > Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn=92t I want to > build a Piet? > > > So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of > California that might be building Piets. I=92m 6=924, 250 lbs (but hey, I =92m > dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24=94 =85 > Cramped? > > > Thanks! > > > Mark > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > * > =========== w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== =========== com/contribution =========== > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: May 28, 2009
Make a cockpit mockup from lumberyard stuff. You can mess with it to your hearts content very cheaply. It will tell you all you need to know. You may even have enough scrap material already. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Roberts To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks Gary! I might take you up on that sometime. We try to get up to Reno or Tahoe during the summer months, but this year might be too full already. Graduating Seniors (twin daughters) this year and bunches of family stuff, but I'd like to sit in a Piet to test my size verses the 24" width. Andrew Piet dropped me a note yesterday saying that the width could be made wider with no problem, and that (and my leg room) are the biggest concerns. I plan to make the longest fuse design, and to use a Corvair engine. Will eventually look for a core and Wynne's book on building one, but I gotta get the plans first. I am selling my Corbin Jr Ace, Corbin Baby Ace, and Pober Jr. Ace plans, as well as my Dragonfly II plans (once thought faster glass was the ticket...). In fact, I need to post them on Barnstormers.com tonight... Thank you for the heads up on the builds. I am in Tulare frequently with my job, so I might see if I can connect with Mike. I hope to be knee deep in wood this summer... :o) Mark On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Mark, There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramento (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. Obviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in mine. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down=85) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotionally to the Piet by various =91conflicting desires=92: wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno=85 I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are often in the high 90=92s-100=92s and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cooling), side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul=85). So, why was it I didn=92t want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn=92t I want to build a Piet? So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of California that might be building Piets. I=92m 6=924, 250 lbs (but hey, I=92m dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24=94=85 Cramped? Thanks! Mark http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05/28/09 18:09:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Hello Mark.=C2- This is Mike Groah and I'm building in Tulare as Gary men tioned so I'm just down the street. =C2- You're more than welcome to come see my project or contact me with any questions.=C2- I'll try my best to show you what I've done and others on this list can fill in the gaps or sh ow you other ways to do it.=C2- There is also another gentleman named Jorge who is building a piet in Hanfo rd (he follows this list as well)=C2- and there is a flying piet (short f use A65) that is based at the Woodlake airport.=C2- I can put you in touc h with them also if you so desire.=C2- Mike Groah Tulare CA dskogrover(at)yahoo.com 559 684 8781 --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 9:10 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AMa rk, =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AThere is one in Tulare =0A(Mike Groah, almost on it s gear), one in Sacramento =0A(Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com),=0Aone i n Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its=0Agear), and mine, near Auburn .=0AO bviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to ta ke=0Aa drive up North and sit in mine. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AGary Booth e =0A=0ACool, Ca. =0A=0APietenpol =0A=0AWW Corvair Conversion =0A=0ATail=0A done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear =0A=0A(13 ribs down) =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Aowner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Rob erts =0ASent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36=0APM =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone=0Abuilding near Fresno/Clovis CA? =0A=0A =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AFinally, after many differing, often waffling, years of =0Athought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice t o build=0Aa Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious dr aw I have=0Aemotionally to the Piet by various =98conflicting desires =99: wanting=0Aan enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno I live in F resno CA where summer temps=0Aare often in the high 90=99s-100 =99s and a plexiglass cockpit needs=0Amuch cooling), side by side seating ( but I like to look out both sides of the=0Afuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last=0Alonger (but I plan to hanger an ything I build for the long haul). =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0ASo, why was it I didn=99t want to build a Piet? I want=0Ato fly slow, build somet hing wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a=0Abit at a time as I h ave money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of=0Atime. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0ARound shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why=0Adidn =99t I want to build a Piet? =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0ASo, I am fully in, an d looking for others in the central=0A valley of=0A California that might b e building Piets.=0AI=99m 6=994, 250 lbs (but hey, I=99m dieting) and am curious about=0Athe size of the width of the plane at 24 =9D Cramped? =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0AThanks! =0A=0A=C2- =0A=0AMark =0A=0A =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp: //forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: May 29, 2009
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Mark, Although mine is far from completion, its a wide body Piet. That's right, I added some width to the fuse and now its 27 inches wide inside dimension. Thats not the hard part,adding width. The hard part comes when you go beyond the basic fuse and begin to construct the other shapes that make up the various radius components and what was a simple radius becomes a series of compound curves to create the instrument panel boards, seat backs and the ever important turtle deck. One of the more challenging, non structural cosmetic parts of my Piet. As I have heard it said, seen it written by the sage Michael Cuy, "its you r airplane". Loosely and perhaps verbosely translated: the good news about the Piet is its plans build and subject to any and all reasonable and unreasonable modifications depending upon the builder. The bad new is you can modify it to your hearts content. You just have to be ready to pay the penalties of creativity and experimentation. There again; "Its your airplane", so enjo y the adventure. It took the words of another wise and not too old sage, my 24 year old college student son, to remind me that the process is more about the journ ey than the destination so enjoy it. You'll be a sawdust junkie in no time fo r which your spouse or significant other if not a supporter, will have litt le toleration and much disdain for your newly developed ambitions and a love for your newly developed wood working skills. Its all about compromises and trade offs, hmmm is that what powered flight is all about? John **************Discover the variety of Bisquick=AE mix. Get Recipes & Savin gs 0126575x1222831871x1201491818/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2F clk%3B215225813%3B37274670%3Be%3Fhttp:%2F%2 Frecipes.bisquick.bettycrocker.com%3FESRC%3D971) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: May 29, 2009
Mark, This is where I am at, after just one year (and the tail was built first). I travel 3-4 days a week, so only get to work on weekends, plus I have landscaped the front yard and remodeled 2 rooms.point is: If you're any kind of Wood Butcher, your project will progress quickly. So far I have about 340 hours in mine. The wood is all Poplar, locally purchased, at a fraction of the price of AC Spruce. Mine is not wider, but I did make it 1" deeper than the plans (I wanted to sit lower in the fuse). Many builders alter the cockpits to suit themselves, including adjusting the instrument panel forward, or building the seat back to recline more. I hope to see you, or hear of your progress. Don't forget to check out Chris Tracy's web sight, www.westcoastpiet.com <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/> . Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks Gary! I might take you up on that sometime. We try to get up to Reno or Tahoe during the summer months, but this year might be too full already. Graduating Seniors (twin daughters) this year and bunches of family stuff, but I'd like to sit in a Piet to test my size verses the 24" width. Andrew Piet dropped me a note yesterday saying that the width could be made wider with no problem, and that (and my leg room) are the biggest concerns. I plan to make the longest fuse design, and to use a Corvair engine. Will eventually look for a core and Wynne's book on building one, but I gotta get the plans first. I am selling my Corbin Jr Ace, Corbin Baby Ace, and Pober Jr. Ace plans, as well as my Dragonfly II plans (once thought faster glass was the ticket...). In fact, I need to post them on Barnstormers.com tonight... Thank you for the heads up on the builds. I am in Tulare frequently with my job, so I might see if I can connect with Mike. I hope to be knee deep in wood this summer... :o) Mark On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: Mark, There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramento (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/> ), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. Obviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in mine. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotionally to the Piet by various 'conflicting desires': wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno. I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are often in the high 90's-100's and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cooling), side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul.). So, why was it I didn't want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn't I want to build a Piet? So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of California that might be building Piets. I'm 6'4, 250 lbs (but hey, I'm dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24". Cramped? Thanks! Mark http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: May 29, 2009
Mark, Please e-mail me (mike_cushway "at" trekbikes "dot" com. concerning the Jr Ace plans. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245896#245896 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: May 29, 2009
Nice job Gary...Looks great..I like the turtle deck mods=2C they are very s imilar to mine. Ed Grentzer Fl. From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Fri=2C 29 May 2009 06:05:39 -0700 Mark=2C This is where I am at=2C after just one year (and the tail was built first) . I travel 3-4 days a week=2C so only get to work on weekends=2C plus I hav e landscaped the front yard and remodeled 2 rooms=85point is: If you=92re any kind of Wood Butcher=2C your project will progress quickly. So far I ha ve about 340 hours in mine. The wood is all Poplar=2C locally purchased=2C at a fraction of the price of AC Spruce. Mine is not wider=2C but I did make it 1=94 deeper than the plans (I wanted to sit lower in the fuse). Many builders alter the cockpits to suit themse lves=2C including adjusting the instrument panel forward=2C or building the seat back to recline more. I hope to see you=2C or hear of your progress. Don=92t forget to check out Chris Tracy=92s web sight=2C www.westcoastpiet.com. Gary Boothe Cool=2C Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done=2C Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down=85) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday=2C May 28=2C 2009 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks Gary! I might take you up on that sometime. We try to get up to Reno or Tahoe during the summer months=2C but this year might be too full alrea dy. Graduating Seniors (twin daughters) this year and bunches of family stu ff=2C but I'd like to sit in a Piet to test my size verses the 24" width. A ndrew Piet dropped me a note yesterday saying that the width could be made wider with no problem=2C and that (and my leg room) are the biggest concern s. I plan to make the longest fuse design=2C and to use a Corvair engine. W ill eventually look for a core and Wynne's book on building one=2C but I go tta get the plans first. I am selling my Corbin Jr Ace=2C Corbin Baby Ace =2C and Pober Jr. Ace plans=2C as well as my Dragonfly II plans (once thoug ht faster glass was the ticket...). In fact=2C I need to post them on Barns tormers.com tonight... Thank you for the heads up on the builds. I am in Tulare frequently with my job=2C so I might see if I can connect with Mike. I hope to be knee deep i n wood this summer... :o) Mark On Thu=2C May 28=2C 2009 at 9:10 PM=2C Gary Boothe w rote: Mark=2C There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah=2C almost on its gear)=2C one in Sacrame nto (Chris Tracy=2C www.westcoastpiet.com)=2C one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer =2C almost on its gear)=2C and mine=2C near Auburn. Obviously=2C Mike is cl osest and monitors this list=2C but you are welcome to take a drive up Nort h and sit in mine. Gary Boothe Cool=2C Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done=2C Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down=85) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday=2C May 28=2C 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Finally=2C after many differing=2C often waffling=2C years of thought and c onsternation=2C I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotio nally to the Piet by various =91conflicting desires=92: wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno=85 I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are often in the high 90=92s-100=92s and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cooling)=2C side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery=2C otherwise=2C why not drive?)=2C and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul=85). So=2C why was it I didn=92t want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow=2C bui ld something wooden not sheet metal=2C something I can build a bit at a tim e as I have money=2C and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap)=2C why didn=92t I want to build a Piet? So=2C I am fully in=2C and looking for others in the central valley of Cali fornia that might be building Piets. I=92m 6=924=2C 250 lbs (but hey=2C I =92m dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24 =94=85 Cramped? Thanks! Mark http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. com http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lista>ht tp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics .comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto rial_Storage1_052009 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: May 29, 2009
Hey Mike! Did you enjoy the thunder and lightning show last night? We sat on the microsized front lawn an watched it until the rain started. Not used to thunderstorms here. Reminded me of North Carolina... I am often thru the Tulare area as I work with a medical company that works with the hospital there. I'm excited someone 'local' (ok, and hour and fifteen minutes away) is building one! I hope to get my plans soon and I'll be looking for wood. I am looking into other options than spruce, as I am not flush with money! Gary said something about poplar, and I know fir is an options as well. I look forward to chatting with you sometime by phone. Thanks for touching base! Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On May 28, 2009, at 11:59 PM, Michael Groah wrote: > Hello Mark. This is Mike Groah and I'm building in Tulare as Gary > mentioned so I'm just down the street. You're more than welcome to > come see my project or contact me with any questions. I'll try my > best to show you what I've done and others on this list can fill in > the gaps or show you other ways to do it. > There is also another gentleman named Jorge who is building a piet > in Hanford (he follows this list as well) and there is a flying > piet (short fuse A65) that is based at the Woodlake airport. I can > put you in touch with them also if you so desire. > > Mike Groah > Tulare CA > dskogrover(at)yahoo.com > 559 684 8781 > > --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Gary Boothe wrote: > > From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 9:10 PM > > Mark, > > > There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in > Sacramento (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com), one in Santa Rosa > (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn . Obviously, > Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to take > a drive up North and sit in mine. > > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down) > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? > > > Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and > consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build > a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw > I have emotionally to the Piet by various =98conflicting desires=99: > wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno I live in Fresno CA where > summer temps are often in the high 90=99s-100=99s and a plexiglass > cockpit needs much cooling), side by side seating (but I like to loo > k out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not driv > e?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything > I build for the long haul). > > > So, why was it I didn=99t want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, bu > ild something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at > a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the te > st of time. > > > Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn=99t I want > to build a Piet? > > > So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of > California that might be building Piets. I=99m 6=994, 250 lbs (but > hey, I=99m dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the > plane at 24=9D Cramped? > > > Thanks! > > > Mark > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com > ">http://forums.matronics.com > ========= > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Hi Mark, Gary Boothes Piet is being made from Poplar and mine is being made from Douglas Fir. For me Doug Fir is available from a local lumber yard who let me and my friend select the boards we wanted. They had a good selection of quarter sawn tight grain boards. Good luck on building the Piet and I think you said a Corvair motor. Mine also has a Corvair and is complete less a few parts ordered from William Wynne. Cheers, Jim Boyer Santa Rosa On May 29, 2009, mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: Hey Mike! Did you enjoy the thunder and lightning show last night? We sat on the microsized front lawn an watched it until the rain started. Not used to thunderstorms here. Reminded me of North Carolina... I am often thru the Tulare area as I work with a medical company that works with the hospital there. I'm excited someone 'local' (ok, and hour and fifteen minutes away) is building one! I hope to get my plans soon and I'll be looking for wood. I am looking into other options than spruce, as I am not flush with money! Gary said something about poplar, and I know fir is an options as well. I look forward to chatting with you sometime by phone. Thanks for touching base! Mark Roberts559.917.5904 On May 28, 2009, at 11:59 PM, Michael Groah wrote: Hello Mark. This is Mike Groah and I'm building in Tulare as Gary mentioned so I'm just down the street. You're more than welcome to come see my project or contact me with any questions. I'll try my best to show you what I've done and others on this list can fill in the gaps or show you other ways to do it. There is also another gentleman named Jorge who is building a piet in Hanford (he follows this list as well) and there is a flying piet (short fuse A65) that is based at the Woodlake airport. I can put you in touch with them also if you so desire. Mike Groah Tulare CA dskogrover(at)yahoo.com 559 684 8781 --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 9:10 PM Mark, There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramento (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn . Obviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in mine. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotionally to the Piet by various conflicting desires: wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are often in the high 90s-100s and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cooling), side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul). So, why was it I didnt want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didnt I want to build a Piet? So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of California that might be building Piets. Im 64, 250 lbs (but hey, Im dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24 Cramped? Thanks! Mark http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Alternative Woods
Date: May 29, 2009
Mark, Since you are looking at alternatives, here is a page out of AC43.13 (good to have on the shelf). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 9:22 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Hey Mike! Did you enjoy the thunder and lightning show last night? We sat on the microsized front lawn an watched it until the rain started. Not used to thunderstorms here. Reminded me of North Carolina... I am often thru the Tulare area as I work with a medical company that works with the hospital there. I'm excited someone 'local' (ok, and hour and fifteen minutes away) is building one! I hope to get my plans soon and I'll be looking for wood. I am looking into other options than spruce, as I am not flush with money! Gary said something about poplar, and I know fir is an options as well. I look forward to chatting with you sometime by phone. Thanks for touching base! Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On May 28, 2009, at 11:59 PM, Michael Groah < dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> wrote: Hello Mark. This is Mike Groah and I'm building in Tulare as Gary mentioned so I'm just down the street. You're more than welcome to come see my project or contact me with any questions. I'll try my best to show you what I've done and others on this list can fill in the gaps or show you other ways to do it. There is also another gentleman named Jorge who is building a piet in Hanford (he follows this list as well) and there is a flying piet (short fuse A65) that is based at the Woodlake airport. I can put you in touch with them also if you so desire. Mike Groah Tulare CA dskogrover(at)yahoo.com 559 684 8781 --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 9:10 PM Mark, There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramento (Chris Tracy, <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/> www.westcoastpiet.com), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn . Obviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in mine. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Piet was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have emotionally to the Piet by various 'conflicting desires': wanting an enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno. I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are often in the high 90's-100's and a plexiglass cockpit needs much cooling), side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at the scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (but I plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul.). So, why was it I didn't want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, build something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn't I want to build a Piet? So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of California that might be building Piets. I'm 6'4, 250 lbs (but hey, I'm dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24". Cramped? Thanks! Mark http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: May 29, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Is it just an optical illusion, or is the rear turtledeck curved slightly (humpback)? If so, that looks interesting. And, by the way, Gary, is that all you've managed to get done in a whole year? Obviously you must waste at least a couple of hours sleeping each night. Seriously, though, that's impressive progress for one year of building. You've built the tail, got your fuselage on Jenny-style gear, with metal fittings installed ... wow. And from the looks of your photo, you're doing really nice work. Looks like a pushrod connected to your elevator bellcrank? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Mecca
Date: May 29, 2009
Bill, You are very observant.and thank you for the compliments. I do not exaggerate that I go to sleep every night and wake up every morning thinking about my Piet project. It's probably the reason why I'm getting other stuff done at home.work before play. The "humpback" was a spur of the moment decision and I honestly haven't decided how much I like it; except that it may detract from the slender beauty of the drawings. My only hope is to somehow manage to earn a spot next to all of you accomplished builders and flyers... but now that you have brought this out in the open, I am in danger of being spotted out with the GN1's (not that there's anything wrong with a GN1). I took a page or two out of Peter's web site, www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/> , and incorporated a simple push rod to the bellcrank. I have not mentioned this at all as it is obviously not flight tested. In fact, I have a feeling that, in order to be truly baptized in to the world of Pietenpol builders (besides completing and flying one), one must make the journey to the Mecca at Broadhead. The time has come for me to make that journey and I have been cleansing my soul by removing from my office walls all those pictures of PT-22's, B-17's, Spitfires, etc.; and replacing with Pietenpol drawings and photo's, interlaced with Corvair engine pics. Also allowed are propeller drawings and photos, based on Dan Helsper's excellent work. .must be pure... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Is it just an optical illusion, or is the rear turtledeck curved slightly (humpback)? If so, that looks interesting. And, by the way, Gary, is that all you've managed to get done in a whole year? Obviously you must waste at least a couple of hours sleeping each night. Seriously, though, that's impressive progress for one year of building. You've built the tail, got your fuselage on Jenny-style gear, with metal fittings installed ... wow. And from the looks of your photo, you're doing really nice work. Looks like a pushrod connected to your elevator bellcrank? Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2009
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Mark If 24" is too narrow for you many have built their fuselages several inches wider. Mine is a long fuse with a Corvair and 26" wide fuselage (outside measurement). Also bulding a mock fuselage is an excellent idea, as Bingeli s recommends. (Attached a pic). Rick On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Mark Roberts wrote : > Thanks Gary! I might take you up on that sometime. We try to get up to Re no > or Tahoe during the summer months, but this year might be too full alread y. > Graduating Seniors (twin daughters) this year and bunches of family stuff , > but I'd like to sit in a Piet to test my size verses the 24" width. Andre w > Piet dropped me a note yesterday saying that the width could be made wide r > with no problem, and that (and my leg room) are the biggest concerns. I p lan > to make the longest fuse design, and to use a Corvair engine. Will > eventually look for a core and Wynne's book on building one, but I gotta get > the plans first. I am selling my Corbin Jr Ace, Corbin Baby Ace, and Pobe r > Jr. Ace plans, as well as my Dragonfly II plans (once thought faster glas s > was the ticket...). In fact, I need to post them on Barnstormers.com > tonight... > > Thank you for the heads up on the builds. I am in Tulare frequently with my > job, so I might see if I can connect with Mike. I hope to be knee deep in > wood this summer... :o) > > Mark > > On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gary Boothe wrote : > >> Mark, >> >> >> >> There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramen to >> (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, >> almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. Obviously, Mike is closest a nd >> monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and sit in >> mine. >> >> >> >> Gary Boothe >> >> Cool, Ca. >> >> Pietenpol >> >> WW Corvair Conversion >> >> Tail done, Fuselage on gear >> >> (13 ribs down=85) >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Roberts >> *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2009 8:36 PM >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? >> >> >> >> Finally, after many differing, often waffling, years of thought and >> consternation, I have firmly decided that the first choice to build a Pi et >> was the right one after all. I have avoided the obvious draw I have >> emotionally to the Piet by various =91conflicting desires=92: wanting an >> enclosed cockpit (why? I dunno=85 I live in Fresno CA where summer temps are >> often in the high 90=92s-100=92s and a plexiglass cockpit needs much coo ling), >> side by side seating (but I like to look out both sides of the fuse at t he >> scenery, otherwise, why not drive?), and a metal skin to last longer (bu t I >> plan to hanger anything I build for the long haul=85). >> >> >> >> So, why was it I didn=92t want to build a Piet? I want to fly slow, buil d >> something wooden not sheet metal, something I can build a bit at a time as I >> have money, and has been a proven design lasting the test of time. >> >> >> >> Round shoulders (shrug) and flat forehead (slap), why didn=92t I want to >> build a Piet? >> >> >> >> So, I am fully in, and looking for others in the central valley of >> California that might be building Piets. I=92m 6=924, 250 lbs (but hey, I=92m >> dieting) and am curious about the size of the width of the plane at 24 =94=85 >> Cramped? >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> * * >> >> * * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com* >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* >> >> * * >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> a> <http://forums.matronics.com>http://forums.matronics.com >> _blank"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com /contribution >> * >> >> > * > =========== w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== =========== com/contribution =========== > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Jim Malley's Piet
Date: May 30, 2009
These were some of the photos taken by Jim Koepnick in preparation for a Sport Aviation article which never materialized. Jim Malley ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 9:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Malley's Piet Could someone please post the pic of Jim's airplane here? I don't recall ever seeing it. Thanks. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Loegering <dan.loegering(at)odayequipment.com>
Date: May 30, 2009
Subject: Wood gear question
Well, after hours of measuring, cutting, trimming, and tweaking, I have the first side of wood gear legs cut and fit to the fuse. I would like to thank Chris Tracy and his "westcoastpiet" website for the excellent tutorial on how to mark out these cuts - without this description, it would have taken much longer than the 10 hours that I have into these two parts (including the jig building time). The next side should be able to be knocked out by the end of the weekend. Now to the question. Is the ash block supposed to be glued to the landing gear legs or do you rely on the side plates and bolts only for this joint? My thoughts are that the glue would provide a substance to fill any remaining void between the legs and the ash block and would help transfer the loads between these pieces. However, if one were to ever need to replace a gear leg for any reason, it would be easier to just unbolt the leg and not have to worry about a glued joint at that point. Thanks all! It is good to be building again. Dan Loegering Fargo, ND ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Wood gear question
Date: May 30, 2009
I did not glue mine. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Loegering" <dan.loegering(at)odayequipment.com> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood gear question > > > Well, after hours of measuring, cutting, trimming, and tweaking, I have > the first side of wood gear legs cut and fit to the fuse. > > I would like to thank Chris Tracy and his "westcoastpiet" website for the > excellent tutorial on how to mark out these cuts - without this > description, it would have taken much longer than the 10 hours that I have > into these two parts (including the jig building time). The next side > should be able to be knocked out by the end of the weekend. > > Now to the question. Is the ash block supposed to be glued to the landing > gear legs or do you rely on the side plates and bolts only for this joint? > My thoughts are that the glue would provide a substance to fill any > remaining void between the legs and the ash block and would help transfer > the loads between these pieces. However, if one were to ever need to > replace a gear leg for any reason, it would be easier to just unbolt the > leg and not have to worry about a glued joint at that point. > > Thanks all! It is good to be building again. > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Wood gear question
Date: May 30, 2009
Glueing the ash block to the gear legs is optional. The adhesive won't hold much because it is glued to the end grain of the gear legs. Your idea that the adhesive will fill any voids is a valid idea. The ash block is glued to the legs on NX18235. I just got back from a flight with the winds 18kts gusting to 24kts 40 degrees off the nose. The landing gear held up to my abuse just fine. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Loegering" <dan.loegering(at)odayequipment.com> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 11:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood gear question > > > Well, after hours of measuring, cutting, trimming, and tweaking, I have > the first side of wood gear legs cut and fit to the fuse. > > I would like to thank Chris Tracy and his "westcoastpiet" website for the > excellent tutorial on how to mark out these cuts - without this > description, it would have taken much longer than the 10 hours that I have > into these two parts (including the jig building time). The next side > should be able to be knocked out by the end of the weekend. > > Now to the question. Is the ash block supposed to be glued to the landing > gear legs or do you rely on the side plates and bolts only for this joint? > My thoughts are that the glue would provide a substance to fill any > remaining void between the legs and the ash block and would help transfer > the loads between these pieces. However, if one were to ever need to > replace a gear leg for any reason, it would be easier to just unbolt the > leg and not have to worry about a glued joint at that point. > > Thanks all! It is good to be building again. > > Dan Loegering > Fargo, ND > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol 912
From: "colliewobbles" <glen(at)ballooning.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: May 31, 2009
Does anybody have details of a pietenpol rotax 912 engine mount? Best wishes Glen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246104#246104 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol 912
Date: May 31, 2009
That will have to be a looooooong motor mount. But=2C I belive it uses a be d style mount so maybe the Corvair mount cound be modified to work. That's what I did for my Franklin bed mount and it worked out great. Ed G. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol 912 > From: glen(at)ballooning.fsnet.co.uk > Date: Sun=2C 31 May 2009 01:58:34 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > net.co.uk> > > Does anybody have details of a pietenpol rotax 912 engine mount? > > Best wishes > Glen > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246104#246104 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE has ever-growing storage! Don=92t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tuto rial_Storage1_052009 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol 912
Date: May 31, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
There is at least one flying example of a "Piet" with a 912 for power. I believe it's actually a GN-1, and it was built by a fellow in Germany named Jorg Turner. There used to be a bunch of photos available on the UK Pietenpol Club website, but that site is currently being redesigned, and very few pictures are there now. Here's a link to a site that has some information about the plane - but everything's in German, so good luck with that. http://www.biplanes.de/bilderserien/aircamper/index.php Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of colliewobbles Sent: Sun 31/05/2009 4:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol 912 Does anybody have details of a pietenpol rotax 912 engine mount? Best wishes Glen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246104#246104 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat back angle
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 31, 2009
I've now got my "mockpit" to the stage that I can sit in it, and one thing I feel I need to do is change the angle of the seat back. It is too vertical for me (maybe in part because I'm 6'-2"). I know that this is an alteration that many have done already, so I know it can be done. What I'm wondering is, for those that have made this change, did you move the bottom edge of the seatback forward, or did you move the top edge rearward? And how much did you move it? And did you change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that moving the top edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would not impact on the available leg room (which is important for me) - However, it would shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing. I hate making changes, but I do need to fit in my plane. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246161#246161 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net>
Date: May 31, 2009
You might take a look at the tube fuselage drawing; the rear seat is layed back a whopping 4" over the wood frame. Could never figure why unless for a tall guy. Just remember that laying the seat back not only changes the CG, it also make for less vision over the side and forward and for me it is a very uncomfortable position; I don't like being buried in a cockpit. Do the mock-up and decide what suits you. Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246180#246180 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Seat back angle
Date: May 31, 2009
Bill, I added 2" of rearward rake to the seatback by incorporating a wedge of styrofoam behind the temperfoam. The wedge is 2" thick at the bottom, tapering to a point at each side at the top of the seat. If I had it to do over, (I did not build a mockpit -probably should have), I would move the top of the seat back about 2", leaving the bottom where it is. I would change the uprights and diagonals to fit this new configuration. The reason to shift the top back, rather than the bottom forward, is that if you are 6'2" as I am, your legs are probably pretty long. I had to enlarge the cutouts in the front seat bulkhead for my shins. I regret having lost 2" of legroom to get the seat angle to a comfortable level. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle I've now got my "mockpit" to the stage that I can sit in it, and one thing I feel I need to do is change the angle of the seat back. It is too vertical for me (maybe in part because I'm 6'-2"). I know that this is an alteration that many have done already, so I know it can be done. What I'm wondering is, for those that have made this change, did you move the bottom edge of the seatback forward, or did you move the top edge rearward? And how much did you move it? And did you change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that moving the top edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would not impact on the available leg room (which is important for me) - However, it would shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing. I hate making changes, but I do need to fit in my plane. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246161#246161 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Gary Boothe wrote: > > Mark, > > There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in > Sacramento (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com > <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/>), one in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost > on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. Obviously, Mike is closest and > monitors this list, but you are welcome to take a drive up North and > sit in mine. > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, Ca. > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > (13 ribs down) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There's also Walt Bowe's in Sonoma at Schellville/Sonoma Valley Airport. His is original with tail skid and Model A. A beautiful airplane. I also have a couple of fuselage sides hanging in the garage. They were glued up with Aerolite and are probable 20+ years old but you're welcome to look at them if you want. Darrel Jones, Sonoma, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Pietenpol at Petaluma
I forgot about the flying Pietenpol at Petaluma Airport. Email Gary McDonald to get contact information for Lauren Williams. Darrel Jones, Sonoma, CA (about 12 miles from Petaluma) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Poker Run 09 Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:27:19 -0700 (PDT) From: mcdonaldpools(at)yahoo.com CC: Paul Spongberg , Tom O'Neill Dear Friends, I want to thank everyone for all their hard work and your wiliness to have fun! Bright sunny day, at least 25 members of the "Spongberg family, close to 30 airplanes going to 7 airports, with Lauren Williams setting a new record of 8 hours 34 minutes and 6 seconds in his Pietinpole! Marc Ashton and Ed Steiger took a break from promoting and buying grocery's for this event, by passing out cards at Sky park and Lampson Field, joining these "troupers" was Roger Willis and his Stearman in Healdsburg, Lenny Ball-bearing and Marc Osborne in Davis, Nina Ortega and Joe Debnar at Nut Tree, Steve Klett assisted Ed and took some great photos and "last but not least",Janero Souza and Phil "Big Papa" Pieri maned Ukiah, but not before doing a 100 hour check on their airplane, they did it in record time, 6 hours flat!.........................thank you all for your support and wiliness to witness all these "Bad Landings"! My favorite Uncle, Don Smith and "Country cousin", Bob Patterson, once again worked magic on the BBQ, simply the best chicken O69 has ever produced! Everyone pitched in, helping with setup and serving, epically, Joan, Kathy, Tawna, Cindy and Pat, thanks again! We gave "Our Leader" Joe Pittelkow a well deserved day off, so what did he do? he went and won the $200 first prize, is that legal!.............worse yet, we weren't paying close attention to Uncle Don and he went and won the $100 second prize, he felt bad for being "creative" and donated the money for the "find Rick Joseph fund" and Cindy Picket came in 3rd place and a $50 winner, she said it was the first time that she has won anything, besides Don! Peggy Bakker was 4Th and will surly win something next year at our 3rd annual "Spongberg Family Poker Run 2010"! After all this fun and foolishness our club even made about $50 according to "Fast Eddy the Banker", if you have any ideas for next year's Run, or complaints, Please let Marc know! and a special thanks to our member at large, Mike Glose for forming a phone tree along with Ed and Marc and reminding all of you to come on out! My other "Sidekick" Jessie, enjoyed all the pet's and chicken and Say's that he loves you too, Gary PS. I'm trying to say something nice about my "Daddy" D-Wayne, but nothing comes to mind! and Happy Birthday Dave "The Historian" Traversi! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Darrel, Thanks for the heads up. I'd like to make a trip up there to see the sides, maybe as I get further along in the process... I think I might have sold my Dragonfly plans, and the Jr. Ace plans, so I am off to order the Piet plans , and then I will be looking at getting started in earnest. I am so glad there are so many people on the list that are active and helpful. It does seem to me to put into perspective Bernard Pietenpol and how he did all of this on his own, and with little education in the 'right ways' of doing stuff. I mean, if you really think about it, with all we kno w today about aeronautics, a simple, down to earth guy building a flying machine out of wood in the mid west designing a plane we are all attracted to (to the point of blood, sweat and lotsa beer) today in 2009 is QUITE an accomplishment. AND, to top it off, to actually fly it with no training and live many years to tell about it.... And he obviously did not have the ability to write a bunch of like minded folks and ask questions like we do. Quite a statement indeed about the man himself, and the people of his era that blazed the trail we get to follow in. Geez, what a sappy guy I am today! Anyway, thanks for the help and offer! Mark On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Darrel Jones wrote: > > Gary Boothe wrote: > >> >> Mark, >> >> There is one in Tulare (Mike Groah, almost on its gear), one in Sacramen to >> (Chris Tracy, www.westcoastpiet.com <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/>), on e >> in Santa Rosa (Jim Boyer, almost on its gear), and mine, near Auburn. >> Obviously, Mike is closest and monitors this list, but you are welcome t o >> take a drive up North and sit in mine. >> >> Gary Boothe >> >> Cool, Ca. >> >> Pietenpol >> >> WW Corvair Conversion >> >> Tail done, Fuselage on gear >> >> (13 ribs down=85) >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > There's also Walt Bowe's in Sonoma at Schellville/Sonoma Valley Airport. > His is original with tail skid and Model A. A beautiful airplane. > > I also have a couple of fuselage sides hanging in the garage. They were > glued up with Aerolite and are probable 20+ years old but you're welcome to > look at them if you want. > > Darrel Jones, > Sonoma, CA > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
Date: May 31, 2009
Bill, you need to consider your shoulder and head weight as I think that is a key factor as to how much the CG will move rearward. I'm 6'-1" 165# with not a lot of brains in my head or mass in my shoulders so moving the top of the seat back should not change my CG much. I sunk the rear seat down as far as I could and moved the top of it back 1-inch. I changed the diagonal brace to match the new angle. I also raised the turtledeck to the top of my shoulders for seatbelts. Seems comfortable enough for me. If I were to do it again I might make the fuselage slightly deeper so my body fits inside a little more. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:15 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle > > > I've now got my "mockpit" to the stage that I can sit in it, and one thing > I feel I need to do is change the angle of the seat back. It is too > vertical for me (maybe in part because I'm 6'-2"). > I know that this is an alteration that many have done already, so I know > it can be done. What I'm wondering is, for those that have made this > change, did you move the bottom edge of the seatback forward, or did you > move the top edge rearward? And how much did you move it? And did you > change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that moving the top > edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would not impact > on the available leg room (which is important for me) - However, it would > shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing. > I hate making changes, but I do need to fit in my plane. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246161#246161 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Brodhead/ Oshkosh planning
Date: May 31, 2009
From: emchair(at)aol.com
Hey Guys... Sorry I'm so late in answering this email.? I haven't figured out exactly how I'm going to work the Brodhead/OSH trip.? Because of work I may not be able to leave until Thursday mid afternoon.? If the weather stays good I may be able to get there Friday afternoon.? Of course the weather doesn't always work out just the way we'd like!? I plan to join the group to OSH on Sunday morning.? Make a bee-line for home early Tuesday morning.? Shad, I'd really like to travel with the barnstormers, but I just can't take the time off and leave that early.? We are planning to take a couple weeks off at the end of June for a vacation, I guess ya just can't do it all.? Last I heard from Andrew the hayfield gathering was going to be fairly low key this year.? I think they were going to drop in on them but I don't think the Dirksen's were planning to do a whole lot.? Andrew was worried that with all the publicity they received that it might get too big, so they thought maybe they should take a year off.? Shad we should keep in touch and maybe we can do some of this trip together. Talk to you later! Don -----Original Message----- From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 7:22 pm Subject: Brodhead/ Oshkosh planning Guys,? Do any of you midwest,?Dixie, or?Ohio area piet guys know what your plans are for the trip up and back to brodhead, oshkosh, such as dates, routes etc.? I believe we plan on leaving on the thursday about 1st light, the a.m.?before B-Head, flying to OSH on sun, and head back to Ohio on tues morning.? If this would match up with any of your plans let me know, I am looking for a barnstorming wingman for the trip up and possibly back.? And also can anyone tell me the date of the Indiana "Hayfield" Fly-In?? Talk to ya all later. ? Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: May 31, 2009
Guys, I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. Please give me name and N-number. Thanks, Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
I also moved the top of the seat back 2" and lowered the back of the seat bottom as low as possible on the lower longeron. Also raised the turtle deck height two inches which raised the slot for the shoulder belts. Rick On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:50 PM, wrote: > > Bill, > > you need to consider your shoulder and head weight as I think that is a key > factor as to how much the CG will move rearward. I'm 6'-1" 165# with not a > lot of brains in my head or mass in my shoulders so moving the top of the > seat back should not change my CG much. I sunk the rear seat down as far as > I could and moved the top of it back 1-inch. I changed the diagonal brace > to match the new angle. I also raised the turtledeck to the top of my > shoulders for seatbelts. Seems comfortable enough for me. If I were to do > it again I might make the fuselage slightly deeper so my body fits inside a > little more. > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:15 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle > > >> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> >> >> I've now got my "mockpit" to the stage that I can sit in it, and one thing >> I feel I need to do is change the angle of the seat back. It is too vertical >> for me (maybe in part because I'm 6'-2"). >> I know that this is an alteration that many have done already, so I know >> it can be done. What I'm wondering is, for those that have made this change, >> did you move the bottom edge of the seatback forward, or did you move the >> top edge rearward? And how much did you move it? And did you change the >> truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that moving the top edge rearward >> makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would not impact on the available >> leg room (which is important for me) - However, it would shift the CG of the >> pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing. >> I hate making changes, but I do need to fit in my plane. >> >> Bill C. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246161#246161 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Greg, We plan to fly the Piet up to B'head and OSH. What type of help is needed on the ground at OSH? I'm happy to help. Jeff >Guys, > >I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th >Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who >is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. >I would also like to include a current list of people who are >willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. > >Please give me name and N-number. > >Thanks, > >Greg Cardinal -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: May 31, 2009
Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary Fly-inGround help could include hauling gear from Brodhead to Oshkosh so the planes can fly light, helping park the planes, carrying gear from the planes to the camping area, etc... A couple of people have already offered to help with these chores, a few more would be appreciated. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary Fly-in Greg, We plan to fly the Piet up to B'head and OSH. What type of help is needed on the ground at OSH? I'm happy to help. Jeff Guys, I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. Please give me name and N-number. Thanks, Greg Cardinal -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: May 31, 2009
Roman Bukolt NX20795 and Bill Rewey NX17WR On May 31, 2009, at 8:45 PM, gcardinal wrote: > Guys, > > I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th > Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who > is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. > I would also like to include a current list of people who are > willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. > > Please give me name and N-number. > > Thanks, > > Greg Cardinal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
I have an old link to the BPA website and it no longer works. Does anyone have the link to the buckeye Piet site? Thanks! Mark On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, gcardinal wrote: > *Guys,* > ** > *I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th > Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is > planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh.* > *I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing to > help on the ground at Oshkosh.* > ** > *Please give me name and N-number.* > ** > *Thanks,* > ** > *Greg Cardinal* > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2009
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
At 6'4", two hundred and-more-than-it-should-be, I will take your advice and build a mock up first. I want to both fly and enjoy the comfort of my plane at the same time... Thanks for the advice. 'Mockpit and fake engine noise' first on the to do list after receiving the plans... Mark On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> > > Bill, > > I added 2" of rearward rake to the seatback by incorporating a wedge of > styrofoam behind the temperfoam. The wedge is 2" thick at the bottom, > tapering to a point at each side at the top of the seat. If I had it to do > over, (I did not build a mockpit -probably should have), I would move the > top of the seat back about 2", leaving the bottom where it is. I would > change the uprights and diagonals to fit this new configuration. > > The reason to shift the top back, rather than the bottom forward, is that > if > you are 6'2" as I am, your legs are probably pretty long. I had to enlarge > the cutouts in the front seat bulkhead for my shins. I regret having lost > 2" of legroom to get the seat angle to a comfortable level. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > Church > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:16 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle > > billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> > > I've now got my "mockpit" to the stage that I can sit in it, and one thing > I > feel I need to do is change the angle of the seat back. It is too vertical > for me (maybe in part because I'm 6'-2"). > I know that this is an alteration that many have done already, so I know it > can be done. What I'm wondering is, for those that have made this change, > did you move the bottom edge of the seatback forward, or did you move the > top edge rearward? And how much did you move it? And did you change the > truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that moving the top edge > rearward > makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would not impact on the available > leg room (which is important for me) - However, it would shift the CG of > the > pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing. > I hate making changes, but I do need to fit in my plane. > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246161#246161 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
Date: May 31, 2009
I made my Mockpit in August 2002. After taking it apart and putting it back together a number of times I finaly settled on angling the seat back at the top 2". It only makes sense to angle the side braces to fit as this is what the seat back is attached to and it is also an integral part of the airframe that holds it square. Now, after sitting in it a lot making engine noises I wish I'd done 3". One thing that hasn't been mentioned is just how close your nose is to the instrument panel. Seven years down the road my eyes could use that extra inch. :-) Sometimes it really sucks being fourteen in a sixty six year old body! An awful lot of your mass is in your legs. I don't know the relative proportions but I don't think there's as much of your mass in your head as you think. Unless you get called "Fathead" a lot :-), which, by the way, since the brain is mostly fat, is a true compliment. I've also raised both the cowling and turtle deck 2". Since I'm 5'8" this means that bringing the shoulder harness out 1/4" under the top of the deck makes a reasonable angle that won't compress my spine should I whack something nose first. If your worried that you may sit too low, well, that's what cushions are for. You can always add more of the things but the reverse only goes so far. Right? I'm not so sure sitting on that double pulley would be much fun after the first couple of rotations though :-) You can also move the rudder bar forward too. This would give you a teeny bit more foreward CG. Remember, those legs are heavy! One way to tell your most comfortable back angle is to look at the seat in your car. What angle do you have that set at? Also move the seat foreward to what you think is equivalent to your position in the Piet and go for a Sunday drive. Maybe even put a board up the seatback. won't take long before your body starts telling you things. I'm not sure I'd wear my helmet and goggles though. :-) Clif, Firewall and engine mount done. No bird soars too high If he soars on his own wings William Blake Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle > > And did you change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that moving the top edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would not impact on the available leg room (which is important for me) - However, it would shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing. > Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Clif, What engine are you using? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle >I made my Mockpit in August 2002. After taking it > apart and putting it back together a number of times > I finaly settled on angling the seat back at the top 2". > It only makes sense to angle the side braces to fit as > this is what the seat back is attached to and it is also > an integral part of the airframe that holds it square. > Now, after sitting in it a lot making engine noises I > wish I'd done 3". One thing that hasn't been mentioned > is just how close your nose is to the instrument panel. > Seven years down the road my eyes could use that > extra inch. :-) > > Sometimes it really sucks being fourteen in a sixty > six year old body! > > An awful lot of your mass is in your legs. I don't > know the relative proportions but I don't think there's > as much of your mass in your head as you think. Unless > you get called "Fathead" a lot :-), which, by the way, > since the brain is mostly fat, is a true compliment. > > I've also raised both the cowling and turtle deck 2". > Since I'm 5'8" this means that bringing the shoulder > harness out 1/4" under the top of the deck makes a > reasonable angle that won't compress my spine should > I whack something nose first. > > If your worried that you may sit too low, well, that's > what cushions are for. You can always add more of > the things but the reverse only goes so far. Right? > I'm not so sure sitting on that double pulley would > be much fun after the first couple of rotations though :-) > > You can also move the rudder bar forward too. This > would give you a teeny bit more foreward CG. > Remember, those legs are heavy! > > One way to tell your most comfortable back angle is > to look at the seat in your car. What angle do you have > that set at? Also move the seat foreward to what you > think is equivalent to your position in the Piet and > go for a Sunday drive. Maybe even put a board up the > seatback. won't take long before your body starts > telling you things. I'm not sure I'd wear my helmet and > goggles though. :-) > > Clif, Firewall and engine mount done. > > No bird soars too high > If he soars on his own wings > William Blake > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle > > >> >> > And did you change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that > moving the top edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it > would > not impact on the available leg room (which is important for me) - > However, > it would shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good > thing. >> Bill C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Greg, I can assist with ground duties. Planning to drive the motor home to Brodhead then Oshkosh. Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary Fly-in Guys, I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. Please give me name and N-number. Thanks, Greg Cardinal 05:53:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Ryan Michaels <aircamperace(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
William, - --------- Dick gave me some good advice about seat and in strument panel position a few years back, should be in the archives, he mov ed both. I took an angle finder to church with me to try to get a feel for the seat angle, I figure if I can sit on some hard oak church pew for an ho ur I can do it in a Piet. - Cliff, -firewall and mount look great. Looks like you are planning on hav ing the engine tucked up close to the firewall, are you using a heavier tha n normal engine? - Ryan M --- On Mon, 6/1/09, Clif Dawson wrote: From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle Date: Monday, June 1, 2009, 2:08 AM I made my Mockpit in August 2002. After taking it apart and putting it back together a number of times I finaly settled on angling the seat back at the top 2". It only makes sense to angle the side braces to fit as this is what the seat back is attached to and it is also an integral part of the airframe that holds it square. Now, after sitting in it a lot making engine noises I wish I'd done 3". One thing that hasn't been mentioned is just how close your nose is to the instrument panel. Seven years down the road my eyes could use that extra inch. :-) Sometimes it really sucks being fourteen in a sixty six year old body! An awful lot of your mass is in your legs. I don't know the relative proportions but I don't think there's as much of your mass in your head as you think. Unless you get called "Fathead" a lot :-), which, by the way, since the brain is mostly fat, is a true compliment. I've also raised both the cowling and turtle deck 2". Since I'm 5'8" this means that bringing the shoulder harness out 1/4" under the top of the deck makes a reasonable angle that won't compress my spine should I whack something nose first. If your worried that you may sit too low, well, that's what cushions are for. You can always add more of the things but the reverse only goes so far. Right? I'm not so sure sitting on that double pulley would be much fun after the first couple of rotations though :-) You can also move the rudder bar forward too. This would give you a teeny bit more foreward CG. Remember, those legs are heavy! One way to tell your most comfortable back angle is to look at the seat in your car. What angle do you have that set at? Also move the seat foreward to what you think is equivalent to your position in the Piet and go for a Sunday drive. Maybe even put a board up the seatback. won't take long before your body starts telling you things. I'm not sure I'd wear my helmet and goggles though. :-) Clif, Firewall and engine mount done. No bird soars too high If he soars on his own wings - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---William Blake Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle ca> > And did you change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that movi ng the top edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would no t impact on the available leg room (which is important for me) - However, i t would shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good thing .. > Bill C. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Will 18" Wheels work?
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
I have a matching set of 18" motorcycle wheels, they are 18x1.5 wheels, and I am just wondering if they are too small for a pietenpol. I'll be running an engine approximately the same weight as a Model A. I'm making my own hubs and spokes, I am just wondering if I need to use 21x3 wheels instead.? Charley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246266#246266 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Hi Greg, I'm planning to be there. Jack Phillips, NX899JP Raleigh, NC BTW, I have a radio in mine and can be a flight leader for the flight into OSH _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary Fly-in Guys, I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. Please give me name and N-number. Thanks, Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Will 18" Wheels work?
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Hi Charley, I haven't heard of anyone using 18" wheels, but that means nothing. I have 21 x 3's on mine. Mike Cuy is running 19" wheels on his. The only problem I could see with the smaller wheels is that you might have less ground clearance for your prop. Also the prop will be at a lower position, making it more difficult to hand prop. You'll likely have a shallower deck angle, meaning the wing won't be fully stalled in the 3 point position, but that is probably a good thing. Mine has a 13 degree deck angle, which means I have to flare it almost perfectly , 1" above the runway to get a perfect landing. Once that wing stalls, it absolutely stops flying. For that reason, I generally try to wheel land mine, if carrying passengers. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rameses32 Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Will 18" Wheels work? I have a matching set of 18" motorcycle wheels, they are 18x1.5 wheels, and I am just wondering if they are too small for a pietenpol. I'll be running an engine approximately the same weight as a Model A. I'm making my own hubs and spokes, I am just wondering if I need to use 21x3 wheels instead.? Charley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246266#246266 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 80th anniversary fly-in
Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if it was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
Mine are 17", so I don't see why 18" won't work. See them at: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/wayne,_bob_anf_jeff.htm > >I have a matching set of 18" motorcycle wheels, they are 18x1.5 >wheels, and I am just wondering if they are too small for a >pietenpol. I'll be running an engine approximately the same weight >as a Model A. I'm making my own hubs and spokes, I am just wondering >if I need to use 21x3 wheels instead.? >Charley > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Mark, The Buckeye Pietenpol Association no longer exists. The website was maintained for several years after the newsletter ceased publication, but sadly is no longer available. There was a lot of good information archived there. The BPA newsletter that Greg is referring to is the Brodhead Pietenpol Association, which was created to continue the tradition and fill the gap left when the Buckeye Piet Association folded. That website can be found here: http://www.pietenpols.org/ Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Thanks to all for the helpful advice. Pretty much what I had thought before posting my question, but good to get helpful and entertaining confirmation. I think will leave the seat bottom where it is, and experiment with tilting back 1", 2", 3" etc till I find what works for me. I think that Jack's 20/20 hindsight will help me, even if it's too late for Jack. And, now that I think about it, if one's feet stay put, and the related butt moves forward, the legs will necessarily bend more, which will, in turn, change the angle between one's legs and back, which makes the modification less effective. As for Chris's comment about the weight of head and shoulders, I'll have to weigh mine to see how heavy they are. I guess if I use the small bottle, it should weigh less (refer to attached image for visual aid for this weak attempt at humor). Tilting the seat back slightly probably has less effect on W&B than I was thinking. As for my particular head, it's hard to say, because I've been accused of having a head that's empty (which would be quite light) and also of having a head that's made of rock (which would be quite heavy). And then there's Clif's comment about being a Fathead (which I'm relieved to hear is actually a compliment). Based on my mockpit, I had already decided to increase the depth of my fuselage, and raising the height of the turtledeck seems to be a pretty common modification which allows for better ergonomics, especially as related to shoulder strap installation. I built my mockpit "to the plans", with the idea that I can add to, or take away as I see fit, but still be able to tell if the original design works for me. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall watching Ryan, measuring the seat angle of the church pews. And finally, adjusting the truss structure of the fuselage sides to match the seatback just makes sense. Just wondered if everyone did it or not. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246299#246299 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/head_and_shoulders_115.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Jun 01, 2009
We're not flying yet, but we are using some old 18 in wheels, left over from my early racing days. Honda CR500 hubs are 5 in like the plans call for. We're using the disc brakes from the bike as well. Jeremy in Dallas ------Original Message------ From: rameses32 Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Jun 1, 2009 6:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Will 18" Wheels work? I have a matching set of 18" motorcycle wheels, they are 18x1.5 wheels, and I am just wondering if they are too small for a pietenpol. I'll be running an engine approximately the same weight as a Model A. I'm making my own hubs and spokes, I am just wondering if I need to use 21x3 wheels instead.? Charley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246266#246266 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: 80th anniversary fly-in
Hi Larry, You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. The attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it i nspires others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. Cheers, Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if i t was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). =C2-=C2- =C2- =C2- =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 80th anniversary fly-in
Date: Jun 01, 2009
I haven't been keeping track, Greg. How many do you have so far? Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Hi Larry, You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. The attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it inspires others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. Cheers, Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if it was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). &nbs================ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Felix(N4FQ) and I are planning on the trip to C37 and OSH. Most likely leave WV Wednesday and arrive Brodhead Thursday, could be different cause of weather. Also I have a half way decent radio. Skip ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal Sent: 5/31/2009 9:56:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary Fly-in Guys, I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh. I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh. Please give me name and N-number. Thanks, Greg Cardinal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Will 18" Wheels work?
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Charley, The 18 is fine, the 1.5 seems a little small, mine are 3" and don't think I would want them any smaller. Skip > [Original Message] > From: rameses32 <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Date: 6/1/2009 7:50:25 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Will 18" Wheels work? > > > I have a matching set of 18" motorcycle wheels, they are 18x1.5 wheels, and I am just wondering if they are too small for a pietenpol. I'll be running an engine approximately the same weight as a Model A. I'm making my own hubs and spokes, I am just wondering if I need to use 21x3 wheels instead.? > Charley > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
Date: Jun 01, 2009
charley, I'm using 18" wheels. Remember that's the rim size. When you add the rubber they'll be about 24/25" OD. Can't imagine using 21" rims,,,the tires would be about 28" OD!! walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 7:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Will 18" Wheels work? > > I have a matching set of 18" motorcycle wheels, they are 18x1.5 wheels, > and I am just wondering if they are too small for a pietenpol. I'll be > running an engine approximately the same weight as a Model A. I'm making > my own hubs and spokes, I am just wondering if I need to use 21x3 wheels > instead.? > Charley > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246266#246266 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks for the great detail! I am planning now to do a Mockpit and some CAD modeling to make sure I get it right for my big frame. Man, I know what you mean by being 14 in a 60 year old body! I'm only 48 but I don't look a day over 65! And feel it more and more... Thanks again. Looking forward to getting my plans! Mark On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: > I made my Mockpit in August 2002. After taking it > apart and putting it back together a number of times > I finaly settled on angling the seat back at the top 2". > It only makes sense to angle the side braces to fit as > this is what the seat back is attached to and it is also > an integral part of the airframe that holds it square. > Now, after sitting in it a lot making engine noises I > wish I'd done 3". One thing that hasn't been mentioned > is just how close your nose is to the instrument panel. > Seven years down the road my eyes could use that > extra inch. :-) > > Sometimes it really sucks being fourteen in a sixty > six year old body! > > An awful lot of your mass is in your legs. I don't > know the relative proportions but I don't think there's > as much of your mass in your head as you think. Unless > you get called "Fathead" a lot :-), which, by the way, > since the brain is mostly fat, is a true compliment. > > I've also raised both the cowling and turtle deck 2". > Since I'm 5'8" this means that bringing the shoulder > harness out 1/4" under the top of the deck makes a > reasonable angle that won't compress my spine should > I whack something nose first. > > If your worried that you may sit too low, well, that's > what cushions are for. You can always add more of > the things but the reverse only goes so far. Right? > I'm not so sure sitting on that double pulley would > be much fun after the first couple of rotations though :-) > > You can also move the rudder bar forward too. This > would give you a teeny bit more foreward CG. > Remember, those legs are heavy! > > One way to tell your most comfortable back angle is > to look at the seat in your car. What angle do you have > that set at? Also move the seat foreward to what you > think is equivalent to your position in the Piet and > go for a Sunday drive. Maybe even put a board up the > seatback. won't take long before your body starts > telling you things. I'm not sure I'd wear my helmet and > goggles though. :-) > > Clif, Firewall and engine mount done. > > No bird soars too high > If he soars on his own wings > William Blake > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back angle > > >> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> >> >> And did you change the truss sides to suit the new angle? I think that > moving the top edge rearward makes the most sense, room-wise, since it would > not impact on the available leg room (which is important for me) - However, > it would shift the CG of the pilot rearward a bit, which is not a good > thing. > >> Bill C. >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
The 1932 F&G "original" plans call for a 27" tire. Back then the callout was the OD of the tire not rim size. I am running 21" rims with 3" tires. 21" + 3" + 3" = 27". -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246331#246331 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
Also, the tires are wider than the rims. Depending on the rim design, I think you can get a 3" wide tire on a 1.5" rim. Ask a cycle shop to confirm, though. -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: First trip to Brodhead
Date: Jun 01, 2009
IA0KDQpHcm91cCwNCg0KIA0KDQpNYWtpbmcgbXkgZmlyc3QgdHJpcCB0byBCcm9kaGVhZCB0aGlz IHllYXIgYW5kIEkgYW0gZXhjaXRlZCBhYm91dCB0aGUgdHJpcC4gTXkgZ2lybGZyaWVuZCBsb3Zl cyBwbGFuZXMgYW5kIGlzIGEgYmlnIHN1cHBvcnRlciBvZiB0aGUgUGlldCBwcm9qZWN0IGFuZCBz aGUgaGFzIGFncmVlZCB0byBjb21lIGFsb25nLiBUaGUgb25seSBjYXRjaCBpcyBzaGUgd2FudHMg YSBob3RlbCBiZWQgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiBhIHRlbnQuIEFueSByZWNvbW1lbmRhdGlvbnMgZm9yIGEg bG9jYWwgbW90ZWwgd2l0aCBhIGRlY2VudCBiZWQgYW5kIGhvdCBzaG93ZXI/PyBUaGFua3MuDQoN CiANCg0KQnJpYW4NCg0KU0xDLCBVVA0KDQo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: First trip to Brodhead
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Brian, My first trip too! I am staying at a Holiday Inn Express in Beloit, about 20 miles SE. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First trip to Brodhead Group, Making my first trip to Brodhead this year and I am excited about the trip. My girlfriend loves planes and is a big supporter of the Piet project and she has agreed to come along. The only catch is she wants a hotel bed instead of a tent. Any recommendations for a local motel with a decent bed and hot shower?? Thanks. Brian SLC, UT ~=ED=B2=AC=DE=83g(=D3=8D=D3=87qzn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: My Pietenpol build is just beginning
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
The plans came in the mail last week. I ordered capstrips to start the ribs. Just about 1/2 through with the rib jig. I am studying the plans and drawing the metal parts in Autocad so I can get the cut with a waterjet and also trying to figure out what and how much 4130 to buy. The plans can be a challenge. The 22 gage/0.030 called on the control horns sounds flimsy. Anyone??? I have no plans for doing wild maneuvers but don't want an uh=oh either. I have seen a lot of different kind of brakes on the spoked wheels. I have not heard anyone say how effective they are. Brakes are a nemesis for me. I had a Luscombe 8A and never got the brakes good enough but what it would creep doing a mag check.... forget a static runup without it tied down. I see some with a large diameter disc that I feel sure would hold. Jerry Dotson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246345#246345 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First trip to Brodhead
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Hello Brian, My back can't take the ground anymore either. My son and I stay at a small hotel in town. We rent bicycles and ride out to the field, around town, and hit some trails. It's where I get the exercise I've given up to build my Piet! http://www.earthridercycling.com/ Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246349#246349 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: off topic-- Ragwing Derby movie....
of possible interest: http://www.ragwingderby.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Mike Cuy N48MC Can't help on the ground, my staff shall take care of all of those needs. (yeah right !) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: Re: First trip to Brodhead
Fyi Hampton inn in Rockford for us. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: Will 18" Wheels work?
Frank Pavliga used to have 18" wheels on his until he saw a few of us using taller wheels and then ditched them for larger diameters but his 18's worked fine for years and years. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: Re: First trip to Brodhead
Builders night out, A few of us are staying at the Hampton inn in Rockford there is a great little Italian restaurant in town which we will be going to. Obviously you are on your own for meals and adult beverages expenses but if you would like to join in on an Italian meal with all the trimmings you are welcome to join us. I will be making the reservation soon so any interested for Saturday night please let me know how many to add to the reservation. John **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol 912
Bill, Glen, Sometimes old web versions of web sites past can be found at http://www.archive.org. For instance: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/. (aside: I expect to get dope-slapped for the following, but I did find that the old gregagn-1 site can still be viewed on archive.org: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.gregagn-1.com/). Also, http://translate.google.com does a passable if somewhat "interesting" job at translating web pages. Cheers, Dan Bill Church wrote: > There is at least one flying example of a "Piet" with a 912 for power. > I believe it's actually a GN-1, and it was built by a fellow in Germany named Jorg Turner. > There used to be a bunch of photos available on the UK Pietenpol Club website, but that site is currently being redesigned, and very few pictures are there now. Here's a link to a site that has some information about the plane - but everything's in German, so good luck with that. > > http://www.biplanes.de/bilderserien/aircamper/index.php > > Bill C. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of colliewobbles > Sent: Sun 31/05/2009 4:58 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol 912 > > > Does anybody have details of a pietenpol rotax 912 engine mount? > > Best wishes > Glen > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246104#246104 > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: My Pietenpol build is just beginning
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Hi Jerry, Welcome to the world of Pietnpols, and Pietenpol People! The .032" (that's the closest you'll find a standard thickness) is plenty for the contol horns. They look more complicated to make than they are. Once you form them to the curved shape and weld them together, they are very strong and rigid, and very light. Some people have used 1/8" thick solid steel horns, which are easier to make, but are not as "elegant" and weigh a ton compared to the plans-built version. You'll find edge welding the thin steel is very easy - just touch it with the torch and the edges sort of flow together, with very little welding rod (if any) required. As for brakes on spoked wheels, marginally effective is about the best you can hope for unless you use a really big disc such as you'd find on a Harley-Davidson. Airplanes quit using big wheels about the same time they started using brakes for that reason - it takes a lot of braking to apply enough torque to stop a big wheel. If it will hold it for the runup, what more do you need? I've got standard Cleveland brakes with an 8" diameter disc and they work adequately, but no more than just adequately. Enjoy the process! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Dotson Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Pietenpol build is just beginning The plans came in the mail last week. I ordered capstrips to start the ribs. Just about 1/2 through with the rib jig. I am studying the plans and drawing the metal parts in Autocad so I can get the cut with a waterjet and also trying to figure out what and how much 4130 to buy. The plans can be a challenge. The 22 gage/0.030 called on the control horns sounds flimsy. Anyone??? I have no plans for doing wild maneuvers but don't want an uh=oh either. I have seen a lot of different kind of brakes on the spoked wheels. I have not heard anyone say how effective they are. Brakes are a nemesis for me. I had a Luscombe 8A and never got the brakes good enough but what it would creep doing a mag check.... forget a static runup without it tied down. I see some with a large diameter disc that I feel sure would hold. Jerry Dotson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246345#246345 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Greg, Pending the pre-purchase inspection this week or next, the soon-to-be-former-owner of N8031 may make the 1900+ nm trip in time for Brodhead. ;-) Dan gcardinal wrote: > *Guys,* > ** > *I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th > Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who is > planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh.* > *I would also like to include a current list of people who are willing > to help on the ground at Oshkosh.* > ** > *Please give me name and N-number.* > ** > *Thanks,* > ** > *Greg Cardinal* > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Mark, Try your link at http://www.archive.org if you're looking for a specific page. Cheers, Dan Mark Roberts wrote: > I have an old link to the BPA website and it no longer works. Does > anyone have the link to the buckeye Piet site? > > Thanks! > > Mark > > On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:45 PM, gcardinal > wrote: > > *Guys,* > ** > *I am putting together an article for the BPA newsletter on the 80th > Anniversary fly-in and I would like to include a current list of who > is planning to fly their Piet to Oshkosh.* > *I would also like to include a current list of people who are > willing to help on the ground at Oshkosh.* > ** > *Please give me name and N-number.* > ** > *Thanks,* > ** > *Greg Cardinal* > ==== " > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol build is just beginning
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I am using the 1" wide band-type brakes. I don't expect them to hold either. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)erec.net> Sent: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 3:23 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Pietenpol build is just beginning The plans came in the mail last week. I ordered capstrips to start the ribs. Just about 1/2 through with the rib jig. I am studying the plans and drawing the metal parts in Autocad so I can get the cut with a waterjet and also trying to figure out what and how much 4130 to buy. The plans can be a challenge. The 22 gage/0.030 called on the control horns sounds flimsy. Anyone??? I have no plans for doing wild maneuvers but don't want an uh=oh either. I have seen a lot of different kind of brakes on the spoked wheels. I have not heard anyone say how effective they are. Brakes are a nemesis for me. I had a Luscombe 8A and never got the brakes good enough but what it would creep doing a mag check.... forget a static runup without it tied down. I see some with a large diameter disc that I feel sure would hold. Jerry Dotson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246345#246345 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: Prop suggestions
As it works out I am still able to work on my project, so I am doing the ADD thing working on the airframe and the engine at the same time. The good new being I have a consultant mentoring me, he's an A&P, A I with 30 years in the field. He has a selection of props available which may work. My question is: what is the best combination of length and pitch for the Piet powered with a 108 hp lycoming. I am looking for one something that is pitched for rate of climb rather than cruise performance. Based upon experience I am looking for suggestions on a prop selection. Please advise Thanks John **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Just measured with tyres, they are 2 3/4" wide and 23" tall. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246400#246400 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Prop suggestions
John, I don't have any direct experience with props and engine combinations (yet), so I'll defer to the experts who will chime in. However, while Piet shopping in the past few months I ran across the Sensenich experimental engine/prop combination page: http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/aircraft_cet/aircraft/experimental.html There are 3 combinations under the "pietonpol A-65" [sic] combination row. As well as a couple rows for O-235's on a Long-EZ. Dan H. will tell you to carve your own. That's what he did and I can personally attest his prop is beautiful. Just... wow. Cheers, Dan AMsafetyC(at)aol.com wrote: > As it works out I am still able to work on my project, so I am doing the > ADD thing working on the airframe and the engine at the same time. The > good new being I have a consultant mentoring me, he's an A&P, A I with > 30 years in the field. He has a selection of props available which may work. > > My question is: what is the best combination of length and pitch for the > Piet powered with a 108 hp lycoming. I am looking for one something that > is pitched for rate of climb rather than cruise performance. > > Based upon experience I am looking for suggestions on a prop selection. > > Please advise > > Thanks > > John > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *An Excellent Credit Score > is360/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62>See > Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!* > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: 80th anniversary fly-in
Date: Jun 01, 2009
We are at 13 so far. No doubt there are others who aren't on the list. Has anybody heard from, or know the whereabouts of Chuck Gantzer? He seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in I haven't been keeping track, Greg. How many do you have so far? Jack Phillips ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:00 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Hi Larry, You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. The attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it inspires others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. Cheers, Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if it was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). &nbs================ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol build is just beginning
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Welcome to the list, Jerry. You might want to post where you live at some point. You might find others near by. On the horns, did you notice that there are 2 plys of the 22 ga. steel with a bend to form a hollow space inside. It is really quite strong. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My Pietenpol build is just beginning > > The plans came in the mail last week. I ordered capstrips to start the > ribs. Just about 1/2 through with the rib jig. I am studying the plans and > drawing the metal parts in Autocad so I can get the cut with a waterjet > and also trying to figure out what and how much 4130 to buy. The plans can > be a challenge. The 22 gage/0.030 called on the control horns sounds > flimsy. Anyone??? I have no plans for doing wild maneuvers but don't want > an uh=oh either. > I have seen a lot of different kind of brakes on the spoked wheels. I have > not heard anyone say how effective they are. Brakes are a nemesis for me. > I had a Luscombe 8A and never got the brakes good enough but what it would > creep doing a mag check.... forget a static runup without it tied down. I > see some with a large diameter disc that I feel sure would hold. > > Jerry Dotson > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246345#246345 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: 80th anniversary
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Greg I am planning on attending. I have a radio and GPS. I am going to get to Brodhead on Wed or Thur. Dick N ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2009
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol build is just beginning
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Well, have I been here long enough to welcome someone new as well?? I just arrived about a week ago myself, but am waiting for a couple of people to use Paypal to pay for some plans I'm selling... Then I can get on with it! I know you will find the guy (any gals?) on here as nice and helpful as I have over the last week with all my questions. I'm having to live vicariously thru all of you all till I can get my plans and start! I too am planning to translate parts into CAD and have a friend of mine cut them out with waterjets. We discussed it today, and a professional welder told me at church this week he'd do all my welding for me... Been at it all his life. So, the weakest links for me just got taken care of. Now, where's that engine mechanic who's been working on aircraft Covairs all his life hiding in my midst.....? Mark On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote: > > The plans came in the mail last week. I ordered capstrips to start the > ribs. Just about 1/2 through with the rib jig. I am studying the plans and > drawing the metal parts in Autocad so I can get the cut with a waterjet and > also trying to figure out what and how much 4130 to buy. The plans can be a > challenge. The 22 gage/0.030 called on the control horns sounds flimsy. > Anyone??? I have no plans for doing wild maneuvers but don't want an uh=oh > either. > I have seen a lot of different kind of brakes on the spoked wheels. I have > not heard anyone say how effective they are. Brakes are a nemesis for me. I > had a Luscombe 8A and never got the brakes good enough but what it would > creep doing a mag check.... forget a static runup without it tied down. I > see some with a large diameter disc that I feel sure would hold. > > Jerry Dotson > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246345#246345 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Seat back angle
Date: Jun 01, 2009
O-290. I temporarily mounted it with wood doweling in place of the rubber engine mount bungees I don't yet have. I couldn't wait. Using a plumb line from the tail to the hub it appears I am a very lucky son of a you-know-what. It lines up absolutely straight! It is, however, angled down one tenth of a degree. :-). And yes Ryan, I have mounted it as far back as I could manage. This engine has quite a large accessory case hanging out beyond the mounting holes so there's a limit to space for triangulating the lower mount tubes. Even so the mags project 4" past the firewall. The prop hub face is 27" from the firewall. The hole in the firewall gives me quite a bit of room to work on the oil screen and mags. I lucked into a ten dollar metal tool box which has now had the top cut off. this is mounted over a flange in the firewall and bolted in with three wing bolts. The white stuff in the previous pic is 1/8" fiberfrax. After some head scratching I've figured out the flow pattern of the oil passages in and out of the screen and as you can see will be able to plumb in a remote filter and still have the original bypass valve work as it should. Now, I wonder if I'll find anything useful at Arlington? :-) Clif "Don't take life too seriously. You can't get out alive" > > Clif, > What engine are you using? > walt evans > NX140DL > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Will 18" Wheels work?
Date: Jun 01, 2009
That is correct, Jeff. On NX18235 we are using 19 x 1.85 rims. 3.50 tires are mounted on these rims. Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Will 18" Wheels work? > > Also, the tires are wider than the rims. Depending on the rim design, I > think you can get a 3" wide tire on a 1.5" rim. Ask a cycle shop to > confirm, though. > > > -- > --- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My Pietenpol build is just beginning
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Thanks guys. All I really ask of the brakes is to hold for a mag check and to unlock the tail wheel. The waterjet work will not cost a cent. My youngest son (44) does that as well as machining. His boss is very understanding when it comes to personal projects. We have small shear and brake, 18 inch lathe and a vertical mill in our shop. Jerry Dotson Baker,Fl (near Pensacola) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246429#246429 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Subject: Gantzer Report
Chuck e-mailed me out of the blue about 2 months ago and said he had intent ions of flying to Bhead/OSH and was doing well otherwise...just too busy to monitor the list much. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Subject: First trip to Brodhead
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Date: Jun 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: > If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never > mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you > reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the > fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your > shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside > width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I > first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it > should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit > seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 > lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the > pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more > comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 > Pontiac Parisienne). > > We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine > needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is > move the firewall forward 4 inches. > This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for > the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. > We will have the fuel in the wing. > > John Fay > in Peoria > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Hey MARK! I am building at Santa Maria Airport.... Have the Fuse on the gear. Tail done. I am 6'2 so I moved the panel a bit forward, and took out the front seat completely! Moved the rudder bar forward, and the rest will be storage up there. I did not like my face so close to the panel....... Cheers, Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:08 AM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Just remember that what would be a "quick weekend hop" in any other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol. A trip that is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a Pietenpol. I flew my Piet from Raleigh to Dulles International Airport near Washington last summer, a trip that would have been an hour and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of flying and two fuel stops. Think about that when you are thinking of cockpit comfort. There are no short trips on a Pietenpol. I remember the first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked "We've been flying for over a minute and haven't reached the end of the runway yet". I told her "It's a 6,000 foot runway and we're doing 50 mph. Do the math." My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within reason. Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1" wider than plans) and leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats. I still can't stand to sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I've got nearly 4 hours fuel on board), and I try to limit cross country legs to no more than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort's sake. I have flown mine twice from North Carolina to Brodhead, and will do it again next month. It's not very comfortable, but there is nothing that is more fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
I can see your point. I remember the statement "the mind can only absorb what the seat can endure...". Same with flying.... I went to high school at Apex High right outside of Cary. Small world. I was in the Civil Air Patrol in Raleigh, and my mom still lives in Fayetteville. May have to visit sometime and see your plane :-) Mark Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:25 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: > Just remember that what would be a =9Cquick weekend hop=9D in any > other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol. A trip t > hat is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a > Pietenpol. I flew my Piet from Raleigh to Dulles International Airp > ort near Washington last summer, a trip that would have been an hour > and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of flying and > two fuel stops. Think about that when you are thinking of cockpit c > omfort. There are no short trips on a Pietenpol. I remember the fi > rst time I took my wife up in it, she remarked =9CWe=99ve been flying > for over a minute and haven=99t reached the end of the runway > yet=9D. I told her =9CIt=99s a 6,000 foot runway and we=99re doing > 50 mph. Do the math.=9D > > > My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within reason. > Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1=9D wider than plans) and leather > upholstery over temperfoam padded seats. I still can=99t stand to si > t in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I=99ve got nearly 4 hou > rs fuel on board), and I try to limit cross country legs to no more > than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort=99s sake. I have flown > mine twice from North Carolina to Brodhead, and will do it again ne > xt month. It=99s not very comfortable, but there is nothing that is m > ore fun. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Raleigh, NC > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? > > > Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to > me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And > moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional > info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. > > > I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to > romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered > about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My > wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack > more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be > really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a > show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways > with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little > romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away > from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia > California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it > was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all > but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your > wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own > LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the > logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time > is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... > > > I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I > am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, > the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. > > Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... > > Mark Roberts > > 559.917.5904 > > > On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: > >> If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never >> mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you >> reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the >> fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your >> shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches >> outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). >> When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he >> said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's >> cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did >> weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of >> the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more >> comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 >> Pontiac Parisienne). >> >> >> >> We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine >> needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is >> move the firewall forward 4 inches. >> >> This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room >> for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's >> legs. >> We will have the fuel in the wing. >> >> >> >> John Fay >> >> in Peoria >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D======================== > ======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Hey Jack. Can you post a pic of your seats? I'm just curious how you did th em and what they look like.=C2- How thick is your foam? --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AJust remember that what would be a =9Cquick=0Aweekend hop =9D in any other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a=0APietenpol.=C2 - A trip that is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to=0A2 hour s in a Pietenpol.=C2- I flew my Piet from Raleigh =0Ato Dulles Internatio nal =0A Airport near=0A Washington last summer, a trip that would=0Ahave be en an hour and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of=0Aflying and two fuel stops.=C2- Think about that when you are thinking of=0Acock pit comfort.=C2- There are no short trips on a Pietenpol.=C2- I=0Aremem ber the first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked =9CWe =99ve=0Abeen flying for over a minute and haven=99t reached the end o f the runway=0Ayet=9D.=C2- I told her =C2-=9CIt=99s a 6,000 foot runway and we=99re=0Adoing 50 mph. Do the math.=9D =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AMy advice is to make it as comfortable as=0Ayou can, wi thin reason.=C2- Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1=9D=0Awider t han plans) and leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats.=C2- I sti ll=0Acan=99t stand to sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I=99ve=0Agot nearly 4 hours fuel on board), and I try to limit cros s country legs to no=0Amore than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort =99s sake.=C2- I have=0Aflown mine twice from North Carolina =0Ato Brodhead, and will do it again next month.=C2- It=99s not very=0Aco mfortable, but there is nothing that is more fun. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AJack =0A Phillips =0A=0ANX899JP =0A=0ARaleigh,=0A NC =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0A owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailt o:=0A owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts =0ASent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08=0APM =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:=0AAnyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0AThanks for the advice! What you suggested m akes very good sence to me.=0AAt 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the=0Afirewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for=0Asmall amounts I luggage would be great . =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to=0Aromantic getaways is my ultimate g oal, but I have long wondered about room for=0Aa small bundle of clothes an d some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to=0Awant to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in=0Athat from anyone wou ld be really interesting to me. I have actually written a=0Ascript and a sh ow sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend=0Ageyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight=0Alittle romantic getaw ay locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from=0Amajor markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in=0Atime to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for producti on=0Acapital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the produ ction of=0A"Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of=0Ayour own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the=0Alogistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head=0Ascratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI like the fact that a=0Abasic des ign can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you=0Aca n build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to scre w=0Asomething up.=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks again for the=0Athoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... =0A=0A=0A=0AMark Roberts =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A 559.917.5904 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0AOn Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay =0Awrote: =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AIf you want to widen the fuselage, one option, a lmost never mentioned,=0Ais just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the=0Apilot's seat.=C2- On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about=0Awhere your knees are, so at your shoulder s it is about two inches narrower=0Aalready (22 inches outside width, and d own to only 20 inches inside the=0Alongerons).=C2- When I first started t o build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this,=0Aand he said it should be fine.=C2 - I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit=0Aseems plenty roomy to me.=C2- I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250=0Albs., but now down to 22 0.=C2- We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat=0Aback, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable.=C2- I got the angles=0Afrom my mo st comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AWe are building to the long fuselage plans.=C2- But sin ce the engine=0Aneeds to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move=0Athe firewall forward 4 inches. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThis gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for=0Athe luggage co mpartment we are building above the passenger's legs.=C2- =0AWe will have the fuel in the wing. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AJohn Fay =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ain Peoria =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =C2-href="http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lis thref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="ht tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2 - =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Well, that might be difficult - the Pietenpol is now in my hangar at Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia (W91). I still keep my RV-4 at Cox Field, in Apex. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? I can see your point. I remember the statement "the mind can only absorb what the seat can endure...". Same with flying.... I went to high school at Apex High right outside of Cary. Small world. I was in the Civil Air Patrol in Raleigh, and my mom still lives in Fayetteville. May have to visit sometime and see your plane :-) Mark Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:25 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote: Just remember that what would be a "quick weekend hop" in any other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol. A trip that is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a Pietenpol. I flew my Piet from Raleigh to Dulles International Airport near Washington last summer, a trip that would have been an hour and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of flying and two fuel stops. Think about that when you are thinking of cockpit comfort. There are no short trips on a Pietenpol. I remember the first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked "We've been flying for over a minute and haven't reached the end of the runway yet". I told her "It's a 6,000 foot runway and we're doing 50 mph. Do the math." My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within reason. Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1" wider than plans) and leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats. I still can't stand to sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I've got nearly 4 hours fuel on board), and I try to limit cross country legs to no more than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort's sake. I have flown mine twice from North Carolina to Brodhead, and will do it again next month. It's not very comfortable, but there is nothing that is more fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay < jfay1950(at)gmail.com> wrote: If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com"> http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
I can try. Nearly every time I try to post a picture, it never shows up. The cushions are 1" firm Temperfoam under 1" of medium Temperfoam, covered with leather. I bought an entire cowhide from Dan Brown of B&B Aircraft Supply at Oshkosh several years ago for $100 - it was enough to do both seats and both cockpit coamings. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Hey Jack. Can you post a pic of your seats? I'm just curious how you did them and what they look like. How thick is your foam? --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM Just remember that what would be a "quick weekend hop" in any other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol. A trip that is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a Pietenpol. I flew my Piet from Raleigh to Dulles International Airport near Washington last summer, a trip that would have been an hour and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of flying and two fuel stops. Think about that when you are thinking of cockpit comfort. There are no short trips on a Pietenpol. I remember the first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked "We've been flying for over a minute and haven't reached the end of the runway yet". I told her "It's a 6,000 foot runway and we're doing 50 mph. Do the math." My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within reason. Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1" wider than plans) and leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats. I still can't stand to sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I've got nearly 4 hours fuel on board), and I try to limit cross country legs to no more than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort's sake. I have flown mine twice from North Carolina to Brodhead, and will do it again next month. It's not very comfortable, but there is nothing that is more fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Jack, Could you enlighten us on the gadgets and knob on the left side of your seat? Thanks. Brian SLC, UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? I can try. Nearly every time I try to post a picture, it never shows up. The cushions are 1" firm Temperfoam under 1" of medium Temperfoam, covered with leather. I bought an entire cowhide from Dan Brown of B&B Aircraft Supply at Oshkosh several years ago for $100 - it was enough to do both seats and both cockpit coamings. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Hey Jack. Can you post a pic of your seats? I'm just curious how you did them and what they look like. How thick is your foam? --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM Just remember that what would be a "quick weekend hop" in any other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol. A trip that is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a Pietenpol. I flew my Piet from Raleigh to Dulles International Airport near Washington last summer, a trip that would have been an hour and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of flying and two fuel stops. Think about that when you are thinking of cockpit comfort. There are no short trips on a Pietenpol. I remember the first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked "We've been flying for over a minute and haven't reached the end of the runway yet". I told her "It's a 6,000 foot runway and we're doing 50 mph. Do the math." My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within reason. Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1" wider than plans) and leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats. I still can't stand to sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I've got nearly 4 hours fuel on board), and I try to limit cross country legs to no more than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort's sake. I have flown mine twice from North Carolina to Brodhead, and will do it again next month. It's not very comfortable, but there is nothing that is more fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat r onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c o ntribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> ========= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 80th Anniversary Fly-in
Shad here, Dad (Gary Bell) and I plan on being at Brodhead, and I plan on f lying NX92GB to Osh on sunday, and leave OSH on tues morning. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Jack, Is that a trim nob to the left of your seat? If so, how does it work? Thanks, Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: 80th anniversary fly-in
Date: Jun 02, 2009
I am going to try hard to get to Brodhead and perhaps Oshkosh. It depend entirely on how my medical marvel wife is doing and whether I can get someone to stay with her for the duration. I've driven to Brodhead before the Piet. was finished but am now flying off the FAA 25 hours on mine. Do I fly around the top of Michigan and down the Dorr peninsula or just cross Lake Michigan from Ludington, Mi., a leg of about 45 minutes. That is the question. The Ludington route follows the Ferry route. Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in We are at 13 so far. No doubt there are others who aren't on the list. Has anybody heard from, or know the whereabouts of Chuck Gantzer? He seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in I haven't been keeping track, Greg. How many do you have so far? Jack Phillips ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:00 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Hi Larry, You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. The attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it inspires others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. Cheers, Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if it was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). &nbs================ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06/01/09 17:55:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Eldredge <steve(at)byu.edu>
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Subject: "Bernie" & High flying
Behind on my reading and it shows. I had my A-65 powered piet up above 10K several times. In ridge life I made it to 12,200'. Whoever said it was l ike hanging on a thread was right. It was a very strange feeling. What ma de it even more weird is that I didn't feel like I could get down. It too k forever to get back down to 7000' doing steep slipping spirals, left, the n right. Sheesh I'm still at 9500. The ground is still not moving... mor e spirals-- made me feel like I was still in control if I could at least m ake the earth spin. It was cold too. Field elevation was at 4500'. Steve E. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Stapleton Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying Funny you should mention the diet, but that is exactly what I am thinking a lthough I have the Corvair engine and am looking for an O-290! I am 6'-5" a nd weigh 250 lbs. I am trying to drop to 205 lbs. so I can carry paxs! Rob Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, AK (907) 230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying Rob, The FAA's definition of service ceiling is the altitude where, at gross wei ght and max rate of climb, the rate of climb produced is 100 feet per minut e. Based on that, my Pietenpol's (745 lb empty weight, 65 hp Continental) service ceiling is just above sea level. At my listed gross weight of 1245 lbs (full fuel, 2 200 lb souls and 10 lbs of baggage), on a hot day I get right at 100 feet per minute climb. A cool day makes a big difference, as does ANY lightening of the airframe and/or pilot and passenger. On a coole r day with me by myself, half tank of fuel and no baggage, I can zoom right up there at close to 500 fpm. Think of this as the best of all reasons to go on a diet. Jack Phillips NX899JP ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Stapleton Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:46 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying For those of you that have been responding to this just what is the service ceiling on a Piet with a Model A, Corvair etc. engines? Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying Mike C. Check out articles in the Grant McLaren-era BPANewsletters, Jim Van dervoort, Ed Sampson and other old-timers about how Mr. Pietenpol preferred to be addressed. If it isn't a big deal to you don't sweat it, the earth i sn't going to end if you say "Bernie" but I was hoping to instill a bit of fast-disappearing respect for someone who I consider a pioneer to aviation history. Oscar,et al; I had my Piet up to 5,000agl (5350 msl) last fall on a cool da y (wouldn't go any higher!!) and the feeling I had could only be described as "eerie and lonely". I also noticed that at idle for the sledride down, t he controls felt A LOT different than they normally do. I think it must hav e been due to the lack of torque from the "A" and the resulting off-setting control input that made it feel a little sloppy. Anyway, I got it up there and set the central Arkansas record for altitude in Lonoke County for a Fo rd powered parasol configured tail-dragger, so I don't have to do that ever again! I think 2,000' will be my limit and 500-1,000 is still going to be my preferred block. Larry W. ecg, xcmr, epp - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 02, 2009
Subject: Re: 80th anniversary fly-in
Jim, I crossed the lake last year with my boy in our Stinson. That's a long 45 minutes my friend and for quite a long part of it you have no land to look at in front or behind you. The engine takes on a different sound and things get just a little spooky. We wore our flotation vests and briefed our actions in a ditching but the fact is the water in the middle of lake Michigan isn't much warmer than about 52 degrees F at the end of July. Prospects for survival even if picked up within an hour are slim. I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't cross this section of water since the alternative is a dance through Chicago's teminal area. Just take the trek very seriously and understand the risks. I cross the lake seven or eight times a month flying into Chicago for my airline. Nevertheless, when halfway across the stretch in the stinson my 13 year old boy could sense my agitation and took my mind off things by playing 20 questions with me! Gotta love the fearlessness of a teenage boy! Scott Knowlton -----Original Message----- From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:08:51 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in I am going to try hard to get to Brodhead and perhaps Oshkosh. It depend entirely on how my medical marvel wife is doing and whether I can get someone to stay with her for the duration. I've driven to Brodhead before the Piet. was finished but am now flying off the FAA25 hours on mine. Do I fly around the top of Michigan and down the Dorr peninsula orjust cross Lake Michigan from Ludington, Mi., a leg of about 45 minutes. That is the question. The Ludington route follows the Ferry route. Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal <mailto:gcardinal(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in We are at 13 so far. No doubt there are others who aren't on the list. Has anybody heard from, or know the whereabouts of Chuck Gantzer? He seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in I havent been keeping track, Greg. How many do you have so far? Jack Phillips ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)comcast.net <mailto:gcardinal(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Hi Larry, You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. The attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it inspires others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. Cheers, Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if it was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). &nbs================ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ---------------- - Release Date: 06/01/09 17:55:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 02, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Thanks for the pictures Jack.=C2- I'd never seen a pic of the inside of y our plane, but I have a 24x 36" picture of the outside of your plane on the wall of my classroom.=C2- I tell my students that is how I want my plane to look.=C2- --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 1:05 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AI can try.=C2- Nearly every time I try to=0Apost a picture, it neve r shows up.=C2- The cushions are 1=9D firm Temperfoam under 1 =9D=0Aof medium=C2- Temperfoam, covered with leather.=C2- I bought an e ntire cowhide from=0ADan Brown of B&B Aircraft Supply at Oshkosh several ye ars ago for $100 =93 it=0Awas enough to do both seats and both cockpi t coamings. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0A owner-piet enpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:=0A owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat ronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Groah =0ASent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:44=0APM =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List:=0AAnyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? =0A=0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Hey Jack. Can you post a pic of you r seats? I'm just=0A curious how you did them and what they look like.=C2 - How thick is your=0A foam? =0A =0A --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jack=0A Phillips =0A wr ote: =0A =0A From: Jack Phillips =0A <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> =0A Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? =0A To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM =0A =0A =0A Just remember tha t what would be a =9Cquick weekend hop=9D in any=0A other airp lane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol.=C2- A trip that=0A is a n easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a=0A Pietenpol. =C2- I flew my Piet from Raleigh =0A to Dulles International =0A Airpor t near=0A Washington last summer, a trip that would=0A have been an hour a nd 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of=0A flying and two f uel stops.=C2- Think about that when you are thinking of=0A cockpit comf ort.=C2- There are no short trips on a Pietenpol.=C2- I=0A remember th e first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked =9CWe=99ve b een=0A flying for over a minute and haven=99t reached the end of the runway=0A yet=9D.=C2- I told her =C2-=9CIt=99s a 6, 000 foot runway and we=99re doing 50=0A mph. Do the math.=9D =0A =C2- =0A My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within =0A reason.=C2- Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1=9D wider tha n plans) and=0A leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats.=C2- I s till can=99t stand to=0A sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I=99ve got nearly 4 hours fuel=0A on board), and I try to limi t cross country legs to no more than an hour and=0A a half, primarily for comfort=99s sake.=C2- I have flown mine twice from=0A North Carolin a to=0A Brodhead, and will do it again next month.=C2- It=99s not very comfortable,=0A but there is nothing that is more fun. =0A =C2- =0A =0AJack Phillips =0A NX899JP =0A =0ARaleigh, NC =0A =C2- =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com =0A [mail rts =0A Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009=0A 1:08 PM =0A To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0A Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:=0A Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA ? =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A Thanks for the=0A advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY=0A additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall=0A forward sounds like a great i dea. Any additional info on storage for small=0A amounts I luggage would b e great. =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =0A I don't plan to=0A do much l ong range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my=0A ulti mate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of=0A cl othes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go=0A so mewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from=0A anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a scrip t=0A and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend ge yways=0A with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little =0A romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away fro m major=0A markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a tr ip back in=0A time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) a nd waiting for=0A production capital which has all but dried up. Another s cripted show is the=0A production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection=0A and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just=0A have to work the logistics on what to actually sho ot during the build... So=0A much time is head scratching and thinking, an d then the cutting begins... =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =0A I like th e fact=0A that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also awa re that the=0A closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a=0A newbie to screw something up.=C2- =0A =0A =0A Thank s again for=0A the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... =0A =0A Mar k Roberts =0A =0A =0A 559.917.5904 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A If you want to=0A widen the fuselage, one option, almo st never mentioned, is just to maintain=0A the full fuselage width until y ou reach the back of the pilot's seat.=C2-=0A On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees=0A are, so at your shoul ders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches=0A outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons).=C2- When I=0A first st arted to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should=0A be fine.=C2- I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty=0A roomy to me.=C2- I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now=0A down to 220.=C2- We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, t o=0A improve the angle and make it more comfortable.=C2- I got the angle s from=0A my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =0A We are building=0A to the long fuselage plans. =C2- But since the engine needs to go forward to=0A keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4=0A inches. =0A =0A =0A This gives much=0A more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room f or the luggage compartment=0A we are building above the passenger's legs. =C2- =0A We will have the fuel in the wing. =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =0A John Fay =0A =0A =0A in=0A Peoria =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =C2- =0A =C2-=C2-href="http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol- Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref= "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi on =C2- =0A =0A =C2-=C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P ietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributi on =C2- =0A http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="h ttp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========== =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A =C2- =C2 -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics .comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
For my leather, I bought a large full length womans leather coat from Good Will for $3.00. There was enough there for all my needs. Worked for me. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? I can try. Nearly every time I try to post a picture, it never shows up. The cushions are 1" firm Temperfoam under 1" of medium Temperfoam, covered with leather. I bought an entire cowhide from Dan Brown of B&B Aircraft Supply at Oshkosh several years ago for $100 - it was enough to do both seats and both cockpit coamings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: 80th anniversary fly-in
Date: Jun 02, 2009
I agree completely with Scott. Apart from the "JFK Jr. Effect", where you lose spatial orientation in the haze over water, the weather around the Great Lakes can be unpredictable in the summer. In 2007 I flew my RV-4 to Brodhead, then on to OSH. While there, my wife asked me to fly her to visit her best friend at Mackinac Island. On the way there we flew more or less directly across the northern part of Lake Michigan. On the return trip I elected to follow the shoreline along the U.P. of Michigan, and still got forced down by unpredicted low ceilings (we were down to 300' AGL before we landed at Manistique to wait for the clouds to lift). I would not recommend flying over the lake. It's mighty lonely flying a Pietenpol over the mountains, but I would take that to flying that far over the water. If you are too far north to take the southern route, skirting Chicago, I would fly over St. Ignace (nice airport there - in 2007 while we were there I saw the Pietenpol from Quebec there as he was heading back home), by way of Manistique (tell Rudy "Hi" for me), then Manitowoc and Green Bay, Oshkosh and then Brodhead. Be sure to mistrust any briefingsyou get from Flight Service - the briefer that advised me on that trip said it would be 2,000 scattered, 4,000 broken and 8,000 overcast. It started as 2,000broken and quickly went down to the deck. When I landed at Manistique, Rudy (the FBO) told me that the weather usually does that in the summer and everybody knows it - except the briefer I had from California thatmorning. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Jim, I crossed the lake last year with my boy in our Stinson. That's a long 45 minutes my friend and for quite a long part of it you have no land to look at in front or behind you. The engine takes on a different sound and things get just a little spooky. We wore our flotation vests and briefed our actions in a ditching but the fact is the water in the middle of lake Michigan isn't much warmer than about 52 degrees F at the end of July. Prospects for survival even if picked up within an hour are slim. I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't cross this section of water since the alternative is a dance through Chicago's teminal area. Just take the trek very seriously and understand the risks. I cross the lake seven or eight times a month flying into Chicago for my airline. Nevertheless, when halfway across the stretch in the stinson my 13 year old boy could sense my agitation and took my mind off things by playing 20 questions with me! Gotta love the fearlessness of a teenage boy! Scott Knowlton -----Original Message----- From: Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb(at)charter.net> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:08:51 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in I am going to try hard to get to Brodhead and perhaps Oshkosh. It depend entirely on how my medical marvel wife is doing and whether I can get someone to stay with her for the duration. I've driven to Brodhead before the Piet. was finished but am now flying off the FAA25 hours on mine. Do I fly around the top of Michigan and down the Dorr peninsula orjust cross Lake Michigan from Ludington, Mi., a leg of about 45 minutes. That is the question. The Ludington route follows the Ferry route. Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal <mailto:gcardinal(at)comcast.net> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in We are at 13 so far. No doubt there are others who aren't on the list. Has anybody heard from, or know the whereabouts of Chuck Gantzer? He seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in I havent been keeping track, Greg. How many do you have so far? Jack Phillips ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal(at)comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Hi Larry, You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. The attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it inspires others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. Cheers, Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Williams" <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if it was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: 1. prop-strike in hayfield. 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. 5. axle bearings siezing. 6. getting lost. 7. finding a better alternative enroute. 8. less than favorable tailwinds. 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). &nbs================ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.c omhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ---------------- - Release Date: 06/01/09 17:55:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA?
Date: Jun 02, 2009
The one on the seat is the lever to operate the trim mechanism. The two ports on the lower part of the seat back are for the headset jacks, and the switches near the top of the seatback are the remote switches for the ELT. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 4:55 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Jack, Could you enlighten us on the gadgets and knob on the left side of your seat? Thanks. Brian SLC, UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? I can try. Nearly every time I try to post a picture, it never shows up. The cushions are 1" firm Temperfoam under 1" of medium Temperfoam, covered with leather. I bought an entire cowhide from Dan Brown of B&B Aircraft Supply at Oshkosh several years ago for $100 - it was enough to do both seats and both cockpit coamings. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:44 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Hey Jack. Can you post a pic of your seats? I'm just curious how you did them and what they look like. How thick is your foam? --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 10:25 AM Just remember that what would be a "quick weekend hop" in any other airplane becomes a test of endurance in a Pietenpol. A trip that is an easy 45 minute hop in my RV-4 takes close to 2 hours in a Pietenpol. I flew my Piet from Raleigh to Dulles International Airport near Washington last summer, a trip that would have been an hour and 20 minutes in the RV-4, and it took over 4 hours of flying and two fuel stops. Think about that when you are thinking of cockpit comfort. There are no short trips on a Pietenpol. I remember the first time I took my wife up in it, she remarked "We've been flying for over a minute and haven't reached the end of the runway yet". I told her "It's a 6,000 foot runway and we're doing 50 mph. Do the math." My advice is to make it as comfortable as you can, within reason. Mine has a slightly wider fuselage (1" wider than plans) and leather upholstery over temperfoam padded seats. I still can't stand to sit in it for more than about 2 hours at a time (I've got nearly 4 hours fuel on board), and I try to limit cross country legs to no more than an hour and a half, primarily for comfort's sake. I have flown mine twice from North Carolina to Brodhead, and will do it again next month. It's not very comfortable, but there is nothing that is more fun. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Anyone building near Fresno/Clovis CA? Thanks for the advice! What you suggested makes very good sence to me. At 6'4", ANY additional room is equivalent to more comfort. And moving the firewall forward sounds like a great idea. Any additional info on storage for small amounts I luggage would be great. I don't plan to do much long range flying, as quick weekend hops to romantic getaways is my ultimate goal, but I have long wondered about room for a small bundle of clothes and some toiletries. My wife will be most likely to want to go somewhere if she can pack more than a toothbrush, so any info in that from anyone would be really interesting to me. I have actually written a script and a show sequence for a travel show I hope to produce on weekend geyways with a light sport plane. "Weekend Wings" would spotlight little romantic getaway locations just an hour to an hour and a half away from major markets. My first episode is written (Columbia California, a trip back in time to a Gold Rush era town just as it was in the 1850's) and waiting for production capital which has all but dried up. Another scripted show is the production of "Get your wings" which centers around the selection and building of your own LSA.... Himmmm, any guesses as to which one? I just have to work the logistics on what to actually shoot during the build... So much time is head scratching and thinking, and then the cutting begins... I like the fact that a basic design can be customized so much, but I am also aware that the closer you can build to the original plans, the less chance you have as a newbie to screw something up. Thanks again for the thoughts! I am indeed hungry for ideas... Mark Roberts 559.917.5904 On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 AM, John Fay wrote: If you want to widen the fuselage, one option, almost never mentioned, is just to maintain the full fuselage width until you reach the back of the pilot's seat. On the original plans, the fuselage begins to narrow about where your knees are, so at your shoulders it is about two inches narrower already (22 inches outside width, and down to only 20 inches inside the longerons). When I first started to build, I asked Vi Kaplar about this, and he said it should be fine. I have built a mock-up, and the pilot's cockpit seems plenty roomy to me. I am only 5' 10", but I did weigh 250 lbs., but now down to 220. We have also moved the top of the pilot's seat back, to improve the angle and make it more comfortable. I got the angles from my most comfortable car (my '86 Pontiac Parisienne). We are building to the long fuselage plans. But since the engine needs to go forward to keep the correct W & B, what we have done is move the firewall forward 4 inches. This gives much more legroom in the front cockpit, and more room for the luggage compartment we are building above the passenger's legs. We will have the fuel in the wing. John Fay in Peoria href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Lisk" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ========= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First trip to Brodhead
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 02, 2009
We are also at the Hampton. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246566#246566 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jack- Please explain trim mech
Date: Jun 03, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Jack, Please give details of your trim mechanism. Mine looks like this and I am curious exactly how yours works (good?) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Jack- Please explain trim mech
Date: Jun 03, 2009
My trim system is essentially the same as Mike Cuy's (whose ideas I stole shamelessly throughout the project). The only change I made was to move the control lever to stick up through the rear seat bottom (his is below the front of the seat and moves side to side). I wanted the system to work intuitively, since I need all the help I can get. With this system, moving the lever forward gives nose down trim, pulling it aft gives nose up trim. The system consists of a horn added to the elevator bellcrank, with a couple of springs which can be tensioned by moving the lever in the cockpit. The photos should make it clear. The large disc with the notches is just a friction lock to tighten the bushing that supports the lever, locking the trim in whatever position you desire. The system works well. I don't need it much, because my fuel tank is in the centersection and fuel burn doesn't change the CG much, but it helps when carrying a large load in the forward baggage compartment. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Hi Jack, Please give details of your trim mechanism. Mine looks like this and I am curious exactly how yours works (good?) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Jack- Please explain trim mech
Jack, Thanks for the explanation. A very trim (pun intended) installation! Jeff ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Neato! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246619#246619 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech
Jack, Your trim system is very well thought out. I was wondering how to do a elevator trim and you just solved my problem. Also thanks to Mike Cuy and the sharing of how to do tips. Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 3, 2009, pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote: My trim system is essentially the same as Mike Cuys (whose ideas I stole shamelessly throughout the project). The only change I made was to move the control lever to stick up through the rear seat bottom (his is below the front of the seat and moves side to side). I wanted the system to work intuitively, since I need all the help I can get. With this system, moving the lever forward gives nose down trim, pulling it aft gives nose up trim. The system consists of a horn added to the elevator bellcrank, with a couple of springs which can be tensioned by moving the lever in the cockpit. The photos should make it clear. The large disc with the notches is just a friction lock to tighten the bushing that supports the lever, locking the trim in whatever position you desire. The system works well. I dont need it much, because my fuel tank is in the centersection and fuel burn doesnt change the CG much, but it helps when carrying a large load in the forward baggage compartment. Jack Phillips NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Hi Jack, Please give details of your trim mechanism. Mine looks like this and I am curious exactly how yours works (good?) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: pulley size
Date: Jun 03, 2009
I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Subject: Jack- Please explain trim mech
Jack must also be a fan of Cartalk on NPR with Ray and Tom using the term 'shamelessly' and I admit that I shamelessly stole most of my ideas from others who had built before me--I am merely passing them along if anyone has interest. The pocket watch idea and slotted side map pockets were liberated from Ed Snyder's (Round Lake NY) Model A Ford Piet. I find my trim to be very useful having a 17 gallon nose tank but as Jack mentioned his trim isn't used much unless he fills his nose baggage area. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: pulley size
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Rick, I think I used the MS24566-3B pulleys in mine. I also have 3/32" control cables. No problem so far, with 150 hours on them. Just make sure the pulleys are "caged" so there is no way a cable can slip off and jam. See the attached photo, which shows a view looking from the cockpit up and to the right. You can see the aileron pulley (right behind the radio), with pink mason's twine representing the control cable. Note the "cage" strap covering the pulley, which is tight enogh to prevent 3/32" cable from slipping out of the pulley groove and getting jammed between the pulley and the spar. Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Subject: pulley size and pulley cable guards
Rick, Same here-3/32" diameter aileron cables. The Tony Bingelis books show so me really simple ways to keep the cable from jumping (turbulence, slack, rapid control movement) and when the FAA came o ut to inspect he asked me to install an additional pulley guard seen in this photo-a little L-bracket in addition to the Piete npol designed fitting. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: aileron pulley
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Jack and Mike thanks for the response. I also talked to my EAA Tech Counselor and he also felt the MS24566-3B pulley would be fine with the 3/32 inch cable. My wings are now varnished and complete except for covering. The center section is complete and installed on temporary wooden cabane struts. I still need to finish the wheels and wooden main gear, then its on to the engine. I just got a line on some used Taylorcraft lift struts. I hope to check them out this weekend. Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: pulley size
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Jack, Have you had any problems viewing your radio display at that angle? I'm at that point with my center section. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com Rick, I think I used the MS24566-3B pulleys in mine. I also have 3/32" control cables. No problem so far, with 150 hours on them. Just make sure the pulleys are "caged" so there is no way a cable can slip off and jam. See the attached photo, which shows a view looking from the cockpit up and to the right. You can see the aileron pulley (right behind the radio), with pink mason's twine representing the control cable. Note the "cage" strap covering the pulley, which is tight enogh to prevent 3/32" cable from slipping out of the pulley groove and getting jammed between the pulley and the spar. Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: pulley size
Date: Jun 03, 2009
No - it is easy enough to see. The transponder is a little more difficult, but it doable (and I don't use it very often). Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pulley size Jack, Have you had any problems viewing your radio display at that angle? I'm at that point with my center section. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com Rick, I think I used the MS24566-3B pulleys in mine. I also have 3/32" control cables. No problem so far, with 150 hours on them. Just make sure the pulleys are "caged" so there is no way a cable can slip off and jam. See the attached photo, which shows a view looking from the cockpit up and to the right. You can see the aileron pulley (right behind the radio), with pink mason's twine representing the control cable. Note the "cage" strap covering the pulley, which is tight enogh to prevent 3/32" cable from slipping out of the pulley groove and getting jammed between the pulley and the spar. Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2009
Subject: Gross weight rating and modifications...
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey All: I have been looking for some of the weight specs for the Piet, and have a couple of questions. I would like to have something closer to 1200 lbs total gross weight for the plane. I think I saw on a website I found tonight that the gross was at somewhere around 1050. I've only found one site that lists the Piet's specs, and as I am 255 or so, I want to know if I can fly this bird with my 150 lb wife and an over night bag... May be a great reason for the stomach by-pass surgery and a tummy tuck, but crud, if I'm gonna spend that much money I should get a kit plane :o\ Is the gross weight established by the 'designer' or by the builder based on having a corvair engine vs. the 65 hp types when the builder registers it with the FAA... Thanks for the clairification and help! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Gross weight rating and modifications...
Losing weight/staying in shape is always a win/win idea even without a plan e in the picture. - Since you will be building your plane, you have control over it's weight. A lways build as light as you can/are comfortable with. This will yield the b est performance given whatever engine/electronics, etc you install. Start n ow at the beginning and think light through the entire build and you'll hav e the best chance for a good performer. - - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Pfeifer Sport plans
I just received another request for a copy of the Pfeifer Sport plans, so thought I would check and make sure that everyone who requested a copy received them. So far I have sent out about 30 discs and heard back from about a third of those who requested the copies. Let me know if you asked for one but didn't receive it. See you at Brodhead! Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Darrel I received the disc, thank you. Do you have a paypal account so I can pay you for it? And is $5 enough? Rick Holland On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Darrel Jones wrote: > > I just received another request for a copy of the Pfeifer Sport plans, so > thought I would check and make sure that everyone who requested a copy > received them. So far I have sent out about 30 discs and heard back from > about a third of those who requested the copies. > > Let me know if you asked for one but didn't receive it. > > See you at Brodhead! > > Darrel Jones > Sonoma, CA > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gross weight, and pilot wt
Guys, Isn't it ironic that we try so hard to save an ounce here and there w hile building, but most of us are still trying to loose the same 10-20 lbs for years and years.- You could build the Piet 20 lbs heavy and have more gizmos,(if you-wanted them)-if we lost the 20lbs.- Or we could incre ase the performance of our airplanes by not doing anything to the airplane itself, but just getting serious about or diet, excercise.- I guess that is the way it has been for a long time, and really, I don't think it's ever gonna change,- but for those that do make the commitment to slim it up, they wil have the better performing airplane, no matter whose airplane they fly. - Off my soap box now (before I break it) - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Hey Darrel, Thanks I did get mine too. I don't care much for pay pal, however I have problem sending you a check. Please confirm that the 5er will do the job. Thanks John **************Limited Time Offers: Save big on popular laptops at Dell %2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215221161%3B37268813%3By) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Darrel, I got my CD thanks, I hope you got the $5 I sent by snail mail. Brian SLC, UT From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans Hey Darrel, Thanks I did get mine too. I don't care much for pay pal, however I have problem sending you a check. Please confirm that the 5er will do the job. Thanks John ________________________________ Limited Time Offers: Save big on popular laptops at Dell =http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215221161%3B37268813%3By> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: "JohnC" <jcalvert(at)trinityvideo.net>
Date: Jun 04, 2009
I got mine, hope you got the cash I sent back! John Calvert -------- I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I don't poke him in the eye on accident. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246801#246801 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Subject: Re: Gross weight, and pilot wt
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
You do make a good point Shad. I think homebuilders and pilots in general keep themselves in a little leaner and fitter than average. And not necessary to attract the hot chicks (which is the reason I do it), its primarily due to having the thought of flunking their flight physical constantly hanging over there head (kind of a Sword of Damocles). Must be real stressful for pilots that make there living flying. Rick On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:37 AM, shad bell wrote: > > Guys, Isn't it ironic that we try so hard to save an ounce here and there > while building, but most of us are still trying to loose the same 10-20 lbs > for years and years. You could build the Piet 20 lbs heavy and have more > gizmos,(if you wanted them) if we lost the 20lbs. Or we could increase the > performance of our airplanes by not doing anything to the airplane itself, > but just getting serious about or diet, excercise. I guess that is the way > it has been for a long time, and really, I don't think it's ever gonna > change, but for those that do make the commitment to slim it up, they wil > have the better performing airplane, no matter whose airplane they fly. > > Off my soap box now (before I break it) > > Shad > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gross weight, and pilot wt
Date: Jun 04, 2009
You know, since I brought this up, you guys have made some good points about the weight around the midsection (can't do much with the fathead... I'm stuck with that). At 48 now, I need to be more aware of my health. The reason I am building a piet (well, ONE reason) is that it is an LSA qualified plane. I am diabetic and I don't pay as close attention as I needed to my condition. For the vast majority of my life I could not gain weight at all. 6'4" and skinny. Not so now. So, the encouragement to loose weight is well taken, and not just an aside. I still have my medical approved on a six year FAA variance (not sure that's the right term), but I have to have a physical every 2 years as normal, but a review/sign off every year. My problem is weight and no exercise (well, I DO fight the water pressure from the shower head every morning). So, I can do something about it still... Mark Roberts On Jun 4, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > You do make a good point Shad. I think homebuilders and pilots in > general keep themselves in a little leaner and fitter than average. > And not necessary to attract the hot chicks (which is the reason I > do it), its primarily due to having the thought of flunking their > flight physical constantly hanging over there head (kind of a Sword > of Damocles). Must be real stressful for pilots that make there > living flying. > > Rick > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:37 AM, shad bell > wrote: > > Guys, Isn't it ironic that we try so hard to save an ounce here and > there while building, but most of us are still trying to loose the > same 10-20 lbs for years and years. You could build the Piet 20 lbs > heavy and have more gizmos,(if you wanted them) if we lost the > 20lbs. Or we could increase the performance of our airplanes by not > doing anything to the airplane itself, but just getting serious > about or diet, excercise. I guess that is the way it has been for a > long time, and really, I don't think it's ever gonna change, but > for those that do make the commitment to slim it up, they wil have > the better performing airplane, no matter whose airplane they fly. > > Off my soap box now (before I break it) > > Shad > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Rick Holland > Castle Rock, Colorado > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Gross weight rating and modifications...
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Mark, You got a lot of replies but little infornation. I'll try to answer your questions: You as the builder can specify whatever gross weight you desire. If you want to say your Pietenpol can fly at 1400 lbs, nobody can stop you. I believe the plans say 1050, but that makes it pretty much useless as a two seat aircraft, since even lightweight Pietenpols tend to weigh in the 600 - 630 lb range. If your empty weight is 600, by the time you add a useful amount of fuel (at least 10 gallons) you are up to 660. You (255) and your wife (150) with full fuel will put you at 1065, and that is with NO baggage, no handheld radio (unless you included it in your empty weight). The plane will fly well at that weight. Mine is one of the heavier Pietenpols at 745 lbs empty. There are a number of reasons, some of which I would do again (I like having comfortable seats, and instruments in the front panel - they are easier for me to read than the ones in the rear panel). I set my gross weight so that if I flew with full fuel, and myself and my wife I would be right at gross. With me by myself and full fuel, I'm pretty close to that 1050 figure, and the plane flies very well. Empty Wt 745 Full Fuel 90 Me 200 Wife 160 Total - 1195 I set my Gross weight as 1200, but then I did a few basic stress calculations to convince myself that the wing was actually strong enough to withstand 4.8 G's (3.2 G's with a 50% safety factor). I feel 1200 is really pushing it for this airplane. I've flown it at that weight, but it feels very heavy and won't climb well. At Brodhead, I will not carry any passenger that weighs over 175 (runway's too short). Fortunately, that tends to limit my passengers to young attractive females. If you don't want to lose some weight (and we're not talking 5 lbs here), then you will need to build your plane as light as possible. I can give you some suggestions, which may or may not be feasible for you: 1. Don't make the fuselage any wider. Every inch of extra width requires more spruce, more plywood, more fabric, and more paint. And more money. 2. Add about 4 to 6 feet to the wingspan. That would put it on par with a Piper Cub, and would decrease the wing loading. The longer wing will weigh a bit more but will lift a lot more. Six feet would add 20% to the wing area. 3. Build the standard fuselage - not the "Long" fuselage. People will tell you you can't put a Continental on a short fuselage, but somehow Mike Cuy managed to do so and his Piet (632 lbs) flies very well and looks beautiful 4. Build the "Improved" (don't say "Cub-Style", since it predated the Cub by about 5 years) landing gear, not the straight axle wire wheel type. The straight axle is heavy, and wire wheels are very strong (and look cool), but if they were light race cars would still be running them. 5. The steel tube fuselage is considerably lighter than the wood fuselage 6. Build with sitka spruce, not douglas fir. Fir is stronger, but heavier. If you use fir, each piece can be resized somewhat smaller to take advantage of the strength and to try to lose some of the extra weight. Spruce has the best strength to weight ratio of any wood except balsa. 7. Use mahogany instead of birch plywood. 8. Use Resorcinol instead of T-88. Lighter and stronger, but much more difficult to use 9. Use lightweight (uncertified) dacron fabric, not the medium weight that everyone says you need - not only is the fabric lighter, but it requires less coating material (whether dope, polybrush or whatever the Stewart System uses). For Heaven's sake, don't use polyurethane paint (60 lbs of my plane's 745 lbs are in paint). Walt Evans used the lightweight fabric on his, and his plane is the lightest Piet I know of (595 lbs). 10. Obviously, avoid adding radios, electrical systems, starters, in-flight movies, de-icing boots and retractable landing gear. You might suggest your wife fly naked - ladies clothes are notoriously heavy I kept a spreadsheet where I recorded the weight of every piece that went on my plane, along with its position with respect to a datum on the airframe, so I wasn't totally surprised by my high empty weight. However, I was more than a bit ticked off when I weighed the fuselage, wings and tail after painting and realized how much that polyurethane with its nice glossy finish cost me. By then it was too late, unless I wanted to re-cover and repaint the entire airplane. All in all, it might be easier (and healthier) for you to lose 75 lbs than to do all these things. I've lost 75 lbs this year - unfortunately, I've lost the same 5lbs 15times. Good Luck and hope to see you at Brodhead next month, Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gross weight rating and modifications... Hey All: I have been looking for some of the weight specs for the Piet, and have a couple of questions. I would like to have something closer to 1200 lbs total gross weight for the plane. I think I saw on a website I found tonight that the gross was at somewhere around 1050. I've only found one site that lists the Piet's specs, and as I am 255 or so, I want to know if I can fly this bird with my 150 lb wife and an over night bag... May be a great reason for the stomach by-pass surgery and a tummy tuck, but crud, if I'm gonna spend that much money I should get a kit plane :o\ Is the gross weight established by the 'designer' or by the builder based on having a corvair engine vs. the 65 hp types when the builder registers it with the FAA... Thanks for the clairification and help! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: lift strut sizes
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Over the past couple of years, there has been a few posts talking about using streamline lift struts with a dimension of 1.78 x 1.06 x .049 from Wag Aero. The reports were that Bill Rewey stated that this size was perfectly adequate for a Pietenpol. I was wondering if anyone has used struts in this size range or would care to offer an opinion on the suitability for use. Rick Schreiber ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Subject: Gross weight rating and modifications...
Mark-add wingspan. Cubs and Champs have six more feet of wing and can l ift more on the same horsepower due to more wing area. Jack's suggestions are very good and in addition I would add not to use any aluminum anywhere for cowlings/cockpit covers over .025" thick. Keep your fastener sizes for the cowling to a minimum an d don't space them too closely. Sometimes less is better---my seat and seat back are held in with three small Phillips screws . (the thing is hinged so I can inspect behind the seat and remove the seat center easily for inspections and finding sunglasses, g um, and other lost items during flight) Try to avoid adding gadgets unless you absolutely need them. Don't use 1/8" cables fo r rudder controls, tailfeather bracing, or aileron cables--- they are way overkill and weigh much more than 3/32" cables. (same for t ailwheel steering cables) Fill your tires with helium too. So Mark-are you a private pilot, do you have a tailwheel endorsement or hav e you had tailwheel experience, dual ? Just curious. A mockpit is a good idea if you're a tall guy. I believe that Bill Church from Canada just completed a mockup cockpit as he's a fairly tall gent such as yourself. Mike C. in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net>
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Darrel; I got the disc you sent and paid by return mail. Thanks so much for sharing the plans. They will be a great source of info when I start the tube Piet. Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246841#246841 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "walt" <waltdak(at)verizon.net>
Subject: gross weight and pilot wt.
Date: Jun 04, 2009
sorry to rehash this, But my my Mentor, ( the designer and AP for Leo Leodenschlager) who I'm so glad to have ever met, always told me to build light. Build light, build light, he would say. My Piet, built to plans, execpt for a few little things, came in at 595#. I'm so glad cause it climbs like a rocket. No more white knuckle climeouts for me with an A-65 I'm 230# at least and can take anyone. Sure climbs a little slower, but no problem. Ain't Life Grand. walt evans NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gross weight rating and modifications...
Date: Jun 04, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Hi Mark, I'm the "fairly tall gent" from Canada that Mike Cuy mentioned in his last post. As Mike said, I have just built a "mockpit", which is basically the front 8 or 10 feet of the fuselage structure, but made from lumberyard spruce, ripped to size with the table saw, and glued together with carpenter's glue. I have about $30 invested in materials to build it. My main reason for building it was to see if I needed to make any alterations to the basic design, due to my height (6'-2"). But overall height is not the only factor, as some people have longer legs, and others have a longer torso. Two people of equal height may not fit into a particular airplane in the same way - one may not have enough legroom, while the other is fine. I've already decided that I'm going with the "long fuselage" because I have a "long fuselage", and the legroom seems all right, but I find the seatback to be too vertical (for me). I built the mockpit "to the plans", so that even if I was pretty sure I would need to change something, I would be able to see how I fit in the original design, without any changes. The fewer changes you make to the plans, the better, as every small alteration can impact on many other things. Building a mockpit will give you a real feel for how you will wear your plane, and whether you need to make any alterations to ensure that you will fit in the plane you build. It also gives you a good "practice run" at building the fuselage - we all generally do a slightly better job on the second attempt (of whatever). Bill C. (from Canada) PS: I have photos of my mockpit posted on the Mykitplane.com website, but it seems that the Builder's Logs are not accessible right now. The Photos and Files sections work fine, but the Builder's Logs do not. I was going to cut and paste a link to the photos, but I just get an error message when I try to access my Build Log. Anybody know what's up with that? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gross weight rating and modifications...
Date: Jun 04, 2009
Wow! Thanks Jack. That's exactly the info I was looking for. Dog gone weight. Besides the obvious pounds I need to lose in the belly, I was not sure what I would be looking at all together as a gross weight. Did some searching on the net, but saw some conflicting numbers and now I can see why, as builders post differing weights on their sites. Well, I didn't know the steel tubing version would be lighter. That might make a difference as to which way I go. I just found out an aquaintance at church is a master TIG welder, and offered to help me if I needed him. That's a lot of work to ask, but if it is a large amount of difference it would be worth the try. While I am asking for advice, would the extra power of the 100+ HP corvair engine make a difference in the weight capabilities? More power equals higher gross weight rating? (Seems to work that way on some of the kit planes websites..)... So, would going steel buy me a lot of weight savings, and would 100 HP be enough to get me decent performance with a 1200 pound gross max (maybe 1250) :o/ Mark Roberts On Jun 4, 2009, at 2:15 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:


May 25, 2009 - June 04, 2009

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