Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-hs

June 15, 2009 - June 24, 2009



Subject: Re: Creve Coeur Airport
Yes Jack, we hope so, Brodhead is too good to miss. Regards Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details =============================== In a message dated 6/15/2009 1:13:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net writes: Hey Chrissi- Are you and Randi coming to Brodhead again this year? Jack Phillips NX899JP ____________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Creve Coeur Airport
Dear Jim, We're just down the street from there. Creve Coeur Airport is like a living museum, I do hope you went through the three huge hangers that have the museum collection, many unique and one of a kind antiques there, they also take them out and fly them. Regards, Chrissi & Randi CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details ===== If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires we fill out a form you will not hear from us. Please do not make your spam problem ours. In a message dated 6/15/2009 12:39:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle I'm in St Louis this week and stopped by the Creve Coeur Airport yesterday. WOW!! If you ever find yourself in the St Louis area...be sure to stop by! A lot of antique aircraft and just wonderful atmosphere. It's always a treat to find a place like this to ====================== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BYD(at)att.net
Subject: A metal vs wood consideration
Date: Jun 15, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Straight Axle gear questions
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Mike, you are correct that I have 6" clearance between the gear legs and the brakes, which is adequate for the bungess, but just barely. One suggestion I can make after 150 hours of flying and several years of operation is to inlet the landing gear fittings into the wood of the struts if possible to prevent making a chafe point to snag and chafe the bungees. Changing the bungess is a pain in the butt, and I have to change mine about every 18 months - not due to the rubber getting loose, but because the fabric cord has been chafed through and the rubber strands are getting cut by the edge of the V-Block fittings. Anything you do to make that less of a chafe point would be good. I think the guide pins on my axle are about 8" long. I also have a loop of 1/8" stainless cable at each end of the axle as a "Disaster Preventer", which allows the axle to move about 6" before it is suspended by the cable. In case the bungees break, this will prevent the wingtip from reaching the ground. I'll have it at Brodhead and you can check it out for yourself. Also Mike Cuy's will be there (I just copied his design), so you can see the original. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Ok , I have been working on my straight axle gear, but I have a couple of questions. First how much room should I allow between the gear legs and the brakes for the bungees? If I remember correctly Jack Phillips said he left 6". Also how much travel should I allow for the axle. What I'm asking about is the axle locator tube system like Mike Cuy has that keeps the axle from rotating or sliding from side to side. How much length should I have? Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel fuselage vs wood/scout gear
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 15, 2009
A couple of points: 1) Like Jack said, there are a lot of metal parts on this old "wooden" airplane, and, as a result, there is a fair amount of welding required. So, you will either need to learn how to weld, or find someone qualified to do it for you. Welding is a handy skill to have, even if you don't build the steel fuselage. 2) Even if you choose to build the steel fuselage, you will find that there id quite a bit of wood in the "steel" fuselage. The seats are wood, the floor is wood, the turtledeck is wood, the side stringers are wood, and the instrument panels are most likely wood. Everyplace there is wood, you will need to fabricate mounting tabs to attach the wood to the steel. The official Pietenpol plans for the steel fuselage are a bit "brief", so you will be on your own to figure out more details than you would with the wood fuselage (not that you won't have to do any thinking with the wood fuse). For a idea of what a steel fuselage under construction looks like, take a look at this website: http://home.att.net/~rdroller/virgilpietFrame1Source1.htm As you can see, there is a fair amount of wood there. Ultimately, I think all builders should go with whatever they are more comfortable with (wood or steel). There apparently is a bit of potential for weight savings by building with steel, but I doubt that there is any significant time savings to be had with one over the other. Far more time will be spent on other components than the basic fuselage structure. It's the fiddly bits that eat up the time. Assuming a builder felt he could save twenty hours of construction time (which I doubt) by using one method over the other, that will account for only one percent of a typical build time. I've already spent more time than that just sweeping the floor of my garage workshop. So, Mark, stop fretting, and just go with the method you are most comfortable with (keeping in the back of your mind that you will probably end up learning to weld somewhere along the line). Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248311#248311 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse versions
Mark Roberts wrote: > > Thanks Owen.... But what is ERW? I am not familiar with the term. "Electrical resistance welded," or something like that. Welded seam, in any case, rather than seamless. In any case, I should have given more detail. Steel tubing gets complicated when you do your own specifying. There is ERW carbon mechanical tubing, which is the cheapest stuff you can get. It tends to be 1020 in wall sizes under .063, 1010 over. Either way, it is relatively low in strength. The next step up is DOM, or drawn-over-mandrel. This is basically ERW mechanical tubing that has been drawn over a mandrel to the exact size and wall thickness. In the process, the seam gets really hard to find, and the strength goes way up. DOM tubing tends to be 1020. I suspect it depends on the manufacturer. Yield strength on normalized 4130 is listed as 63.1 KSI, with an ultimate tensile strength of 97,200 KSI. DOM 1020 is around 60 KSI yield and 70 KSI ultimate. J-3s, Vagabonds, T-craft, and Aeroncas all were primarily DOM 1020, with a piece or two of 4130 for the spar carry-through and maybe a bit to absorb the landing-gear stresses. This stuff tends to be expensive when you get it from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks, if you still can. From a standard steel supplier, not so much. There is one more alternative: structural tubing. Actually, it comes in a mess of grades, each made to a different specification, and it tends to come in bigger sizes than we'd use for an airplane. I mention it only because I got sloppy in the first note and used the term "structural" instead of "mechanical." Look for DOM 1020. Wall sizes tend to be one step thicker than you'd expect in 4130--3/4 x .049 instead of 3/4 x .035, for example--but you should be able to find what you need. One estimate I saw, from a guy whose experience I tend to trust, suggested that a fuselage more or less like that of a Piet should come in around 42 lb if optimized for 4130, 48 lb for DOM. Price for DOM would be half that of 4130 or less. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse versions
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 15, 2009
There are many homebuilts flying made from ERW tubing. I know of two in Victoria One is a Graham Lee Nieuport 11, and the other is an Early Bird Jenny. They both are made from 1.2mm wall, ERW. Pete, the guy that built them, did all the math and structural analysis. I'm building my Pietenpol out of 1.2mm ERW, But I will pay a 25lb penality for doing so. What you can't do is just swap a .035 4130 tube for a .035 1020 ERW tube. Now if I'm not mistaken werent Cubs and a few other factory planes originally built with ERW? CHarley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248329#248329 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Straight Axle gear questions
Date: Jun 15, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Mike, Please see the attached. As you might see, I have elongated the "sheath" tube on my "axle locator" tube system into an oval shape. This is to allow a "rocking" motion on the gear, without putting an undo strain on the tube that is welded onto the axle. Please note I have not flown with this set-up. I unashamedly copied it from Simon McCormack from "down under" www.westcoastpiet.com. They look at things from a "different" perspective there, and many times have some superb ideas. Also, have you looked at Chris Tracey's straight axle gear fabrication instructions on the westcoastpiet site? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:36 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Ok , I have been working on my straight axle gear, but I have a couple of questions. First how much room should I allow between the gear legs and the brakes for the bungees?? If I remember correctly Jack Phillips said he left 6".??? Also how much travel should I allow for the axle.? What I'm asking about is the axle locator tube system like Mike Cuy has that keeps the axle from rotating or sliding from side to side.? How much length should I have? Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steel fuselage vs wood/scout gear
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Nothings really wrong with that as long as you keep your tacks small and stress that you are using argon gas, I was just concerned that someone would see the word MIG and then go use one of those flux cored wire jobs, now that would make a horrible mess. Also you are oxy welding after tacking and that is normalizing the hot spot created by the mig. Another thing to remember is that mig wire is Hi carbon steel, so it is usually harder than the parent material. But there are thousands of aircraft mig welded together so it can't be all bad, The Slepcivich Storch, and I think Rans to name a few. Anyway, I'm not judging anybody, heck, I'm building my Piet with 1.2mm wall ERW. Charley [quote="flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com"]I do that all the time with my small Lincoln mig welder with .030" wire and argon sheilding gas. Little bitty tack welds to hold the pieces in place C then gas weld right over them. Please explain what the problem is with that. Ed G. > From: davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel fuselage vs wood/scout gear > Date: Mon C 15 Jun 2009 08:10:51 -0700 > > > Hi Charley C > > Well C there goes my idea..... I was going to Tack with a small mig welder > then go over the whole fuse with oxy.... seemed the easiest way for me to > fab my fuselage. (without burning up my wood table!) > > Dave > > > > > -- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248340#248340 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse
versions Opening my yap has gotten me to look up the numbers I'd forgotten. A513 Type 5 DOM carbon steel tube has a yield strength of 72 KSI and ultimate tensile strength of 87 KSI, and it comes in the standard aircraft sizes. No idea what the alloy is; as I understand it, the specs cover the performance, not the composition. Online Metals lists 3/4 x .035 4130 at about $30 for an 8-foot length. A513 DOM is $10.68 for 8 feet. Custom lengths are $1.91 for A513 and $5.33 for 4130. I would expect to find A513 in 20-foot lengths at a local steel supplier for somewhat less money, with 4130 available only from a specialty house. A Piet fuselage should take around 200 feet; actually somewhat less, but it's cheaper to buy the 20-foot lengths than to have them cut to size. Figure something under $260 for a Piet in A513, plus a bit for the flat sheet. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse
versions
Date: Jun 15, 2009
"...Figure something under $260 for a Piet in A513, plus a bit for the flat sheet..." No comment on steel vs. wood, but just a note of comparison... I bought all the Poplar, locally, for my fuse, tail & ribs + 1/4" & 1/8" plywood for under $300. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse versions Opening my yap has gotten me to look up the numbers I'd forgotten. A513 Type 5 DOM carbon steel tube has a yield strength of 72 KSI and ultimate tensile strength of 87 KSI, and it comes in the standard aircraft sizes. No idea what the alloy is; as I understand it, the specs cover the performance, not the composition. Online Metals lists 3/4 x .035 4130 at about $30 for an 8-foot length. A513 DOM is $10.68 for 8 feet. Custom lengths are $1.91 for A513 and $5.33 for 4130. I would expect to find A513 in 20-foot lengths at a local steel supplier for somewhat less money, with 4130 available only from a specialty house. A Piet fuselage should take around 200 feet; actually somewhat less, but it's cheaper to buy the 20-foot lengths than to have them cut to size. Figure something under $260 for a Piet in A513, plus a bit for the flat sheet. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Subject: Re: steel fuselage vs wood/scout gear
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Nice Pictures of Virgil's Plane. I am beginning to think the way you've described: Stop fretting and start building. I will probably do the wings first whilst I ponder my fuse options. As the fuse presents the challenges of the greatest weight savings, I was trying to figure the best way to approach it weight wise, but I think time will tell. I love construction photos. Thanks again for the link! Mark On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Bill Church wrote: > > A couple of points: > 1) Like Jack said, there are a lot of metal parts on this old "wooden" airplane, and, as a result, there is a fair amount of welding required. So, you will either need to learn how to weld, or find someone qualified to do it for you. Welding is a handy skill to have, even if you don't build the steel fuselage. > 2) Even if you choose to build the steel fuselage, you will find that there id quite a bit of wood in the "steel" fuselage. The seats are wood, the floor is wood, the turtledeck is wood, the side stringers are wood, and the instrument panels are most likely wood. Everyplace there is wood, you will need to fabricate mounting tabs to attach the wood to the steel. The official Pietenpol plans for the steel fuselage are a bit "brief", so you will be on your own to figure out more details than you would with the wood fuselage (not that you won't have to do any thinking with the wood fuse). For a idea of what a steel fuselage under construction looks like, take a look at this website: > > http://home.att.net/~rdroller/virgilpietFrame1Source1.htm > > As you can see, there is a fair amount of wood there. > > Ultimately, I think all builders should go with whatever they are more comfortable with (wood or steel). There apparently is a bit of potential for weight savings by building with steel, but I doubt that there is any significant time savings to be had with one over the other. Far more time will be spent on other components than the basic fuselage structure. It's the fiddly bits that eat up the time. Assuming a builder felt he could save twenty hours of construction time (which I doubt) by using one method over the other, that will account for only one percent of a typical build time. I've already spent more time than that just sweeping the floor of my garage workshop. > > So, Mark, stop fretting, and just go with the method you are most comfortable with (keeping in the back of your mind that you will probably end up learning to weld somewhere along the line). > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248311#248311 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
Subject: Re: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse versions
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
That's very interesting (on both the steel and the poplar options). I am concerned about the weight mostly, and that is why I am looking at the trouble (to me, a non-welder) of the steel option in what ever form. If the other steel option (vs 4130) is as heavy as the wood, I'd be most likely going with wood, as I am familiar with it and I think I can work the job a bit more quickly. Even with the speed of welding tubing over the glue joints, I am not sure I'd be as fast as working wood just due to my experience with it and the tools involved. However, with poplar, the weight is heavier than spruce. My problem is that I am a big guy, and if I was to fly LSA, I need to be under 1320. With the Piet I need to be around 1100 or so, depending on HP of the motor. Thanks for all the advice on this. I am feeling a bit foolish with all of this, as I am really haggling with myself over about 100 pounds total. Still, if this sweetie would lift closer to 1300 pounds safely, I'd not be worried :o) Thus, my furrowed brow and contemplative spirit... :o) Mark On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > > "...Figure something under $260 for a Piet in A513, plus a bit for the flat > sheet..." > > No comment on steel vs. wood, but just a note of comparison... > > I bought all the Poplar, locally, for my fuse, tail & ribs + 1/4" & 1/8" > plywood for under $300. > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen Davies > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 4:26 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse > versions > > > Opening my yap has gotten me to look up the numbers I'd forgotten. A513 > Type 5 DOM carbon steel tube has a yield strength of 72 KSI and ultimate > tensile strength of 87 KSI, and it comes in the standard aircraft sizes. > No idea what the alloy is; as I understand it, the specs cover the > performance, not the composition. Online Metals lists 3/4 x .035 4130 at > about $30 for an 8-foot length. A513 DOM is $10.68 for 8 feet. Custom > lengths are $1.91 for A513 and $5.33 for 4130. I would expect to find > A513 in 20-foot lengths at a local steel supplier for somewhat less > money, with 4130 available only from a specialty house. A Piet fuselage > should take around 200 feet; actually somewhat less, but it's cheaper to > buy the 20-foot lengths than to have them cut to size. Figure something > under $260 for a Piet in A513, plus a bit for the flat sheet. > > Owen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse versions
Mark, I've got the Pfeifer Sport, which is essentially a steel tube, wood wing Corvair powered Pietenpol variant. The empty weight before I repainted it was 598 pounds, so I think a steel tube Piet would come out a bit lighter. Good luck on the project. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Creve Coeur Airport
I hope folks wear name tags so I can put faces to the posts. Darrel Jones Pfeifer Sport Sonoma, CA CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com wrote: > Yes Jack, we hope so, Brodhead is too good to miss. > Regards Chrissi & Randi > > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > www.CozyGirrrl.com > Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo > Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details > ============================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weight differences between Wood and steel fuse
versions Gary Boothe wrote: > I bought all the Poplar, locally, for my fuse, tail & ribs + 1/4" & 1/8" > plywood for under $300. Not bad at all! The A513 is a bargain only if you would otherwise be ordering 4130 or certified spruce. Though poplar brings the weight up and probably tips that advantage back to steel, even if you are not using 4130. Note that the estimate of 48 lb for mild steel vs. 43 lb for 4130 in a "Pietenpol-like" airplane assumed the 4130 version used a bunch of different tube sizes to optimize the strength-to-weight ratio. For something like a Pietenpol, which is about as far from optimized as you can get, the difference would be even smaller. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: steel fuselage vs wood/scout gear
Date: Jun 15, 2009
For a steel airplane there sure seems to be a lot of wood in it! Just to paraphrase an old Pietenpol lament. :-) Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. Clif I still can't! :-) "Great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things brought together." ~ Vincent Van Gogh > > Thats great time, I know it would take me alot longer than that to do in > wood, I figure the wing is going to be a big enough challenge in wood for > me. For some reason I feel like Dr Frankenstien. > CHaRlEy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Arkansas fly-in
Well........ a lot of you missed a good time this past week-end. - Friday evening we had a front come ripping through which probably cancelled the plans for those who were coming from farther out. Nevertheless, we did have a barbecue dinner that was pretty well attended after the front. - Saturday was spectacular! Cool, windless and cavu. We had Pietenpol pilots and enthusiasts from Kentucky, Texas, and Arkansas. Stearman, Pietenpol, Cu b, taildragger Cessna, RV, and Pacer aircraft were represented, pancakes we re consumed and there was enough BBQ left from the previous evening-for a lunch-to be-served. Some rides were given and a lot of hangar flying w as done with a background of "Those Magnificent Men" and "Waldo Pepper" on a big, big screen in the corner. I didn't see one non-smiling face the whol e week-end! Commemorative patches were handed out to those who flew in. - Next year should be bigger and better f the weather will cooperate. Those o f you within striking distance of LIT should mark your calendar for the sec ond week-end in June. - Next stop: Brodhead!! - Larry W.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Subject: (no subject)
Gary, I think you're really going to enjoy working with poplar and the price is always good. John **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Subject: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. Light = better for me :o) However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the plane. Well (sigh). So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to to equal the strength component of the spruce. Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches for my long frame. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the details before the build. (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses as I set up for final... :o) Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Hi Mark, My Piet is being built out of Doug Fir. I have just a few comments; first off the wood is only a small part of the weigh of the plane. The landing gear alone will be as heavy as the fuselage itself. Thats not counting all the steel fittings of which there are over 140 ( I quit counting at 140) and they are the same regardless of type of wood and even if you build a steel tube fuselage it will have to have all sorts of tabs welded on to mount all the miscellaneous parts like elevator bellcrank, control sticks, rudder bar/pedals, etc. The best goal is not to add extra/un-needed things like lights, starter, big battery, instruments in front pit; instruments like VSI, etc in the back pit. Someone on this net said; "build light and simplicate." Cheers, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 16, 2009, mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote: First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. Light = better for me :o) However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the plane. Well (sigh). So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to to equal the strength component of the spruce. Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches for my long frame. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the details before the build. (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses as I set up for final... :o) Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Mark, Two years ago at Brodhead I made a point of close inspection of the "Last Original" BHP-built Aircamper. Bernard used 7/8" x 7/8" spruce for the fuselage longerons. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 16, 2009 12:13 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. Light = better for me :o) However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the plane. Well (sigh). So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to to equal the strength component of the spruce. Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches for my long frame. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the details before the build. (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses as I set up for final... :o) Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Mark I don't weight in very often, but I wanted to give my thoughts on this subject. I have a rare condition which my wife coined chronic tightassitis, with complications of overthinkitis. what this means is that I have looked over Doug fir in detail. I even laid out the numbers in a spreadsheet, and modeled the parts in Pro Engineer to check size reductions. what I discovered is that you can reduce the longerons by about a 16th of an inch if memory serves me and still be above the Stats and strengths of spruce while at the same time reducing the weight and offsetting some of the weight penalty. with that said the only number of Douglas fir that is less than Spruce is the Modulus of Elasticity (again if memory serves) and unless you plan on fatigue testing your piet, with aerobatics that number should never come into play, if you have a tendency to smack into hard things remember that Doug fir won't bend as far as spruce before it cracks. My ribs are all out of Doug Fir that is 12-14 growth rings per inch with a runout of less than 1 inch in 60, cut from a 12 foot 4x4 purchased at Menards for 12.95 I believe. Just my thoughts, Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 06/16/2009 12:13 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com To pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com cc Subject Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. Light = better for me :o) However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the plane. Well (sigh). So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to to equal the strength component of the spruce. Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches for my long frame. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the details before the build. (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses as I set up for final... :o) Mark ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Had a great time in your backyard
In the pleasant weather of Oklahoma I got a chance to meet with Mark at his Hangar at Grundys Airport. he's got a great shop, not to mention a more then ample supply of beverage on hand. We had some burgers and brew, talked a bunch of Piet and attended the EAA chapter 10 meeting on the field. I had a great time enjoyed every bit of it met his family enjoyed every bit of it and you missed out, ha ha,hahaha John **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Mark, The choice is yours. Successful planes have been built from both wood types. Do your research, and make your choice. Strength calculations are based on a number of physical properties of the material, in combination with the shape and size of the members, and the manner in which the member is loaded. It's not always as simple as one might think. There is no simple rule to follow. If you aren't comfortable doing the calculations yourself, then just stick with what's called for in the plans. My preference: Spruce - it's just way nicer to work with, regardless of strength/weight. And, by the way, if you can manage to build your entire airplane in four years, you'll be doing pretty good. That would average out to about 10 hours per week, every week, of actual build time. Thinking time not included. We all seem to have similar goals when we start out, and then before we know it, a year has passed, and we might have a stack of ribs to show for it, then a few more years go by, and we don't seem to be anywhere near the finish line. The only way to get a Piet built is to work on it. If you can manage to spend one hour per day actually making parts, you will make progress. Nothing gets built while we're on the computer, or sitting in front of the boob tube. As for redrawing the plane, it MIGHT help you to discover some things about the project, but it will pale in comparison to the results you'll get by cutting and gluing some wood (and metal). Like the commercial says, Just Do It. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Mark, Just a reminder about this page from AC41.13. It is void of personal feelings and preferences. (hope it is attached OK) Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. Light = better for me :o) However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the plane. Well (sigh). So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to to equal the strength component of the spruce. Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches for my long frame. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the details before the build. (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses as I set up for final... :o) Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Jun 16, 2009
John, You are right! This was my first experience with poplar and I found it very enjoyable to work with. The fuse is done, as are the tail components and some of the ribs. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Gary, I think you're really going to enjoy working with poplar and the price is always good. John _____ An Excellent Credit Score is681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26 hmpgID=62%26bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Had a great time in your backyard
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Pleasant weather is an understatement... uh, kind of... it was 90+ degrees and >100% humidity. Ha ha! Oh well... that is what the cold brew is for. Sure glad you could make it out John... it was nice to meet you and share stories. There were two things I meant to do while you were here that I totally forgot... 1. Get a picture... I brought the camera but forgot to get it out. 2. Show you the pilot lounge... it is cool, literally, which would have been nice to step into for a few minutes. The floor has a huge blow up of the Tulsa area from the KC sectional on the floor. Maybe next time I guess. Glad you had a good time. See you at Brodhead. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248569#248569 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Doug Fir as a substitute
That list reminds me you don't hear of anyone making a plane of Pine and not too many of Poplar even though those are the ones most commonly available. I wonder what the weight penalty would be using pine and compensating for the strength? Anyone ever heard of someone making a plane from Pine? Rodney ---- Gary Boothe wrote: > Mark, > > Just a reminder about this page from AC41.13. It is void of personal > feelings and preferences. (hope it is attached OK) > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown > with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I > realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over > thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on > building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. > Light = better for me :o) > > However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am > re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the > second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for > spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything > but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. > > Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic > things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here > for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and > another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have > impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics > and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane > fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that > he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the > plane. Well (sigh). > > So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other > posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the > equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there > a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" > x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent > strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to > to equal the strength component of the spruce. > > Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? > > The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for > this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called > for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the > plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things > I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till > all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies > with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway > as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches > for my long frame. > > Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle > 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the > details before the build. > > (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this > is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I > just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 > on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off > of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses > as I set up for final... :o) > > Mark > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 17, 2009
I am doing it in poplar as are others. As far as a rarity I am not too certain I agree with that part of your assessment. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:08:55 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute That list reminds me you don't hear of anyone making a plane of Pine and not too many of Poplar even though those are the ones most commonly available. I wonder what the weight penalty would be using pine and compensating for the strength? Anyone ever heard of someone making a plane from Pine? Rodney ---- Gary Boothe wrote: > Mark, > > Just a reminder about this page from AC41.13. It is void of personal > feelings and preferences. (hope it is attached OK) > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown > with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I > realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over > thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on > building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. > Light = better for me :o) > > However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am > re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the > second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for > spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything > but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. > > Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic > things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here > for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and > another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have > impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics > and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane > fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that > he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the > plane. Well (sigh). > > So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other > posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the > equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there > a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" > x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent > strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to > to equal the strength component of the spruce. > > Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? > > The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for > this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called > for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the > plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things > I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till > all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies > with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway > as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches > for my long frame. > > Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle > 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the > details before the build. > > (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this > is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I > just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 > on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off > of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses > as I set up for final... :o) > > Mark > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Had a great time in your backyard
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Mark Thanks again. Next thing you'll have to do is to get a copy of TGWP and watch it until you can quote lines. "It has been very nice to have met you Mr Brown" At any rate, except for seeing Markles project progress on occasion Jim and I should visit you when ever possible. John ------Original Message------ From: Mark Chunard Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: Jun 16, 2009 7:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Had a great time in your backyard Pleasant weather is an understatement... uh, kind of... it was 90+ degrees and >100% humidity. Ha ha! Oh well... that is what the cold brew is for. Sure glad you could make it out John... it was nice to meet you and share stories. There were two things I meant to do while you were here that I totally forgot... 1. Get a picture... I brought the camera but forgot to get it out. 2. Show you the pilot lounge... it is cool, literally, which would have been nice to step into for a few minutes. The floor has a huge blow up of the Tulsa area from the KC sectional on the floor. Maybe next time I guess. Glad you had a good time. See you at Brodhead. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248569#248569 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
> > That list reminds me you don't hear of anyone making a plane of Pine and not too many of Poplar even though those are the ones most commonly available. I wonder what the weight penalty would be using pine and compensating for the strength? Anyone ever heard of someone making a plane from Pine? Last I knew, the MiniMax ultralights were kitted in pine. Don't know of any heavier aircraft, but I'd be surprised if they weren't reasonably common. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 16, 2009
That sounds like rumor to me... I would have a hard time believing the Mini-Max was ever kitted in pine. Might want to do some digging before I believe that. I have a Mini-Max fin kit, and it is definitely not pine. It's a new kit (2008). Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 16, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Owen Davies wrote: > > >> > Last I knew, the MiniMax ultralights were kitted in pine. Don't know > of any heavier aircraft, but I'd be surprised if they weren't > reasonably common. > > Owen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Hello all, Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Had a great time in your backyard
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 16, 2009
I've got a copy of TGWP, I just need to watch it several more times. As for you and Jim... there is a frosty mug waiting whenever you feel like stopping by. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248627#248627 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
Dowe, we used etch primer on all aluminum.- We painted color, top coat in dupont centari auto enamal.- The insides of all alum. we left in primer (O.D. Green).- It's holding up so far.- Epoxy primer would also hold up very well with out top coat. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Straight Axle gear questions
Thank you for the help, both Jack and Dan.- Yes Dan I've read the gear co nstruction write up that Chris did on westcoastpiet.com.- I chose to do m ine differently (right side up), but still got the job done.- Thanks for the tips.- I'll get to work on the axle part soon.- Hopefully you can s ee the attached pic of what I have done thus far.- Mike Groah Tulare CA --- On Mon, 6/15/09, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 4:10 PM Mike, =0A =0APlease see the attached. As you might see, I have elongated the "sheath" tube on my "axle locator" tube system into an oval shape. This is to allow a "rocking" motion on the gear, without putting an undo strain on the tube that is welded onto the axle. Please note I have not flown with this set-u p. I unashamedly copied it from Simon McCormack from "down under" www.westc oastpiet.com. They look at things from a "different" perspective there, and many times have some superb ideas. Also, have you looked at Chris Tracey's straight axle gear fabrication instructions on the westcoastpiet site? =0A =0ADan Helsper =0APoplar Grove, IL =0A =0A =0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ASent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:36 am =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0AOk , I have been working on my straight axle gear, but I have a couple o f questions. First how much room should I allow between the gear legs and t he brakes for the bungees?- If I remember correctly Jack Phillips said he left 6".--- Also how much travel should I allow for the axle.- Wha t I'm asking about is the axle locator tube system like Mike Cuy has that k eeps the axle from rotating or sliding from side to side.- How much lengt h should I have? =0A =0A =0AMike Groah =0ATulare CA =0A =0A =0A Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. =0A=0A =0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Fellers, I can't thank you enough for your feedback. I have a very good friend here in town that works alot in wood, and he can rip out stock on his bandsaw like no one's business. We actually made a set of Cradles together back when my wife and I discovered we were pregnant with twins (the one's that just graduated from High School last week!! Man, was that just 18 years ago??! I need a beer...) Along with the pondering over my navel lint I have thought of little else lately thna this project. If the guy pays me for the Dragonfly plans like he's suppose to (2 weeks later....) I am ordering plans Friday, and I will most likely settle down. But, I'm very grateful I am NOT the only one with "chronic tightassitis, with complications of overthinkitis" (I'm using that one for myself now) ... as this project can't cost me much at the beginning. I am also encouraged to know BHP made the last one out of Doug fir. Helps to know he believed in it too, if not for nostalgia sake :o) Thanks again guys. Really appreciate the help. Mark On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > > > That sounds like rumor to me... I would have a hard time believing the > Mini-Max was ever kitted in pine. > > Might want to do some digging before I believe that. > > I have a Mini-Max fin kit, and it is definitely not pine. It's a new kit > (2008). > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 16, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Owen Davies wrote: > > >>> >> Last I knew, the MiniMax ultralights were kitted in pine. Don't know of >> any heavier aircraft, but I'd be surprised if they weren't reasonably >> common. >> >> Owen >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 16, 2009
Go here and scroll down. There's a chart of wood strengths. http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html > Mark, > > Just a reminder about this page from AC41.13. It is void of personal > feelings and preferences. (hope it is attached OK) > > Gary Boothe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Wayne Bressler wrote: > That sounds like rumor to me... I would have a hard time believing > the Mini-Max was ever kitted in pine. > > Might want to do some digging before I believe that. > > I have a Mini-Max fin kit, and it is definitely not pine. It's a new > kit (2008). Dig away. My information is at least ten years old, from when TEAM still owned it (it may even have been ISON at that point) and one of our neighbors was the local dealer. If JDT has gone to spruce, or something else, it would not surprise me. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Painted the inside white. Makes it very easy to peek inside and spot leaks. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Hello all, > > Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? > > Douwe > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:55:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 17, 2009
The insides of all the cowlings on 41CC were left in natural aluminum. I sort of wish that the cockpit cowlings were at least primed inside because they are visible. However, Corky had the wonderful presence of mind to have everyone who helped him on the airplane sign their names inside the engine top cowling using a black marker. Since I've owned the airplane, I've had several others add their names inside the cowling... like Sal Hernandez, welder extraordinaire who did all of the landing gear and cabane strut repairs. I need to have engine guru Jeff Scott sign it, and tech counselor Norris Warner, and sheet metal maestro Ed Talamantez, and Charlie, and... and... so many more! The inside of that cowling will carry a story with it for a long time. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Not sure where you got that info, Mark. I have read that over the years BHP used wood that was available to him, including Hemlock when Spruce wasn't available, but I do not recall reading that he built his last plane out of Douglas Fir (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you re-read Dan Helsper's post, he said that he closely inspected The Last Original, and that the fuselage longerons were Spruce (I believe his point was that the longerons were only 7/8" x 7/8" rather than 1" x 1" per plans). There was no mention of Douglas Fir. Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute --> ... I am also encouraged to know BHP made the last one out of Doug fir. Helps to know he believed in it too, if not for nostalgia sake :o) Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Opps! My bad. I misread the post. Jim said 7/8 x 7/8 spruce.... don't know how I got fir outta that!? Thanks for pointing that out before I continued spreading that one around! Mark On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:15 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > > Not sure where you got that info, Mark. > I have read that over the years BHP used wood that was available to him, > including Hemlock when Spruce wasn't available, but I do not recall > reading that he built his last plane out of Douglas Fir (not that > there's anything wrong with that). > If you re-read Dan Helsper's post, he said that he closely inspected The > Last Original, and that the fuselage longerons were Spruce (I believe > his point was that the longerons were only 7/8" x 7/8" rather than 1" x > 1" per plans). There was no mention of Douglas Fir. > > Bill C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark > Roberts > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:41 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > --> > > ... I am also encouraged to know BHP made the last one out of Doug fir. > Helps to know he believed in it too, if not for nostalgia sake :o) > > Mark > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
I have been doing that sort of this as I build as well. Mostly dates for wh en I finished-this and that and some of my various math calculations, men tal reminders, (WING TIP[and an arrow pointing the direction of the tip]) e tc. -Most of which will be covered up, but it will be like a time capsule when I have to go back and recover it someday or if by chance someone else ends up with the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 17, 2009
May also help in future NTSB investigations. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint I have been doing that sort of this as I build as well. Mostly dates for when I finished this and that and some of my various math calculations, mental reminders, (WING TIP[and an arrow pointing the direction of the tip]) etc. Most of which will be covered up, but it will be like a time capsule when I have to go back and recover it someday or if by chance someone else ends up with the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Good point! I should add my next of kin, phone numbers... --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 1:37 PM May also help in future NTSB investigations =C2- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint =C2- I have been doing that sort of this as I build as well. Mostly dates for wh en I finished=C2-this and that and some of my various math calculations, mental reminders, (WING TIP[and an arrow pointing the direction of the tip] ) etc. =C2-Most of which will be covered up, but it will be like a time c apsule when I have to go back and recover it someday or if by chance someon e else ends up with the plane. =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: cowling paint
Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? Moriarty: Crap! >May also help in future NTSB investigations=8A > > >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] >On Behalf Of Michael Perez >Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:16 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > >I have been doing that sort of this as I build >as well. Mostly dates for when I finished this >and that and some of my various math >calculations, mental reminders, (WING TIP[and an >arrow pointing the direction of the tip]) etc. > Most of which will be covered up, but it will >be like a time capsule when I have to go back >and recover it someday or if by chance someone >else ends up with the plane. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
You're actually writing your math calculations on the parts? I guess you'll never misplace them. Of course, you won't be able to refer to them either, without removing the fabric. Your plane will definitely be one of a kind. BC (the "wing tip" comment was a joke, though ... right?) ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint I have been doing that sort of this as I build as well. Mostly dates for when I finished this and that and some of my various math calculations, mental reminders, (WING TIP[and an arrow pointing the direction of the tip]) etc. Most of which will be covered up, but it will be like a time capsule when I have to go back and recover it someday or if by chance someone else ends up with the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cowling paint
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 17, 2009
IlRoYXQncyB0aGUgY2F0Y2giDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0Jl cnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBKZWZmIEJvYXRyaWdodCA8 amJvYXRyaUBlbW9yeS5lZHU+DQoNCkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgMTcgSnVuIDIwMDkgMTQ6MDA6MTEgDQpU bzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogUGlldGVucG9s LUxpc3Q6IGNvd2xpbmcgcGFpbnQNCg0KDQpPZGRiYWxsOiBXaHkgZG9uJ3QgeW91IGtub2NrIGl0 IG9mZiB3aXRoIHRoZW0gDQpuZWdhdGl2ZSB3YXZlcz8gV2h5IGRvbid0IHlvdSBkaWcgaG93IGJl YXV0aWZ1bCANCml0IGlzIG91dCBoZXJlPyBXaHkgZG9uJ3QgeW91IHNheSBzb21ldGhpbmcgDQpy aWdodGVvdXMgYW5kIGhvcGVmdWwgZm9yIGEgY2hhbmdlPw0KTW9yaWFydHk6IENyYXAhDQoNCj5N YXkgYWxzbyBoZWxwIGluIGZ1dHVyZSBOVFNCIGludmVzdGlnYXRpb25zig0KPg0KPg0KPkZyb206 IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KPlttYWlsdG86b3du ZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dIA0KPk9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBN aWNoYWVsIFBlcmV6DQo+U2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKdW5lIDE3LCAyMDA5IDE6MTYgUE0NCj5U bzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KPlN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wt TGlzdDogY293bGluZyBwYWludA0KPg0KPg0KPkkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGRvaW5nIHRoYXQgc29ydCBv ZiB0aGlzIGFzIEkgYnVpbGQgDQo+YXMgd2VsbC4gTW9zdGx5IGRhdGVzIGZvciB3aGVuIEkgZmlu aXNoZWQgdGhpcyANCj5hbmQgdGhhdCBhbmQgc29tZSBvZiBteSB2YXJpb3VzIG1hdGggDQo+Y2Fs Y3VsYXRpb25zLCBtZW50YWwgcmVtaW5kZXJzLCAoV0lORyBUSVBbYW5kIGFuIA0KPmFycm93IHBv aW50aW5nIHRoZSBkaXJlY3Rpb24gb2YgdGhlIHRpcF0pIGV0Yy4gDQo+IE1vc3Qgb2Ygd2hpY2gg d2lsbCBiZSBjb3ZlcmVkIHVwLCBidXQgaXQgd2lsbCANCj5iZSBsaWtlIGEgdGltZSBjYXBzdWxl IHdoZW4gSSBoYXZlIHRvIGdvIGJhY2sgDQo+YW5kIHJlY292ZXIgaXQgc29tZWRheSBvciBpZiBi eSBjaGFuY2Ugc29tZW9uZSANCj5lbHNlIGVuZHMgdXAgd2l0aCB0aGUgcGxhbmUuDQo+DQo+DQoN Cg= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway-->
No, recall that some of these are layout notes. My spars are marked accordingly (e.g.; one note says "right rear butt end"), and I assure you that note refers neither to Rush Limbaugh, my politics nor physiology. "Wingtip -->" makes the same sense. Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway-->
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I myself put one of those arrows on the pilot's seat, just so I remember which way I will be going. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 3:42 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway--> No, recall that some of these are layout notes. My spars are marked accordingly (e.g.; one note says "right rear butt end"), and I assure you that note refers neither to Rush Limbaugh, my politics nor physiology. "Wingtip -->" makes the same sense. Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway-->
>>> 6/17/2009 3:56 PM >>> >>I myself put one of those arrows on the pilot's seat, just so I remember which way I will be going. >>Dan Helsper >>Poplar Grove, IL As I recall, one of the F4U Corsairs on the old Black Sheep Squadron television show had an arrow pointing forward on one wing. 'spect this was to remind him which way to point the thing although with that many horses up front there probably wasn't much choice. Won't have that problem on the Corvair powered Piet. By the way, thanks for all the good advice a couple of weeks ago. I was able to meet up with the Painters at Mojave airport and get some in-hanger stick time in Jo-Ann's Air Camper plus a bunch of stories that I will recall for a long time. Turns out that Mr. Painter gave the private pilot check ride to Christopher Reeves among many others. Now how would you like to be the one who could say "I taught Superman how to fly?" Attached photo is of Mr. Painter, my son Matthew, and myself discovering just how hard it is to fit into the main "pit." Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Douwe I engine turned the inside & outside. Dale > [Original Message] > From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > To: pietenpolgroup > Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Hello all, > > Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? > > Douwe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Hi Dale, How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what did you use for the abrasive to do it? Thanks, Jim B. On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: Douwe I engine turned the inside & outside. Dale > [Original Message] > From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > To: pietenpolgroup > Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Hello all, > > Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? > > Douwe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpols on the big screen
From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 17, 2009
http://www.barnstormingmovie.com/ Watch the trailer Showing at Oshkosh on Sunday night, click on "screenings" - Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248787#248787 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: On the way to Brodhead/Oshkosh fly-in
From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Larry Williams will be there........ (right Larry?) - Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248788#248788 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Writing inside of the airplane
I am glad I am not the only one who does that.- I have written notes as t o who built what part, where it was built, date, etc on various parts (of m y Jungster 1, I am building).- Imagine how cool that would if the airplan e is around in 50-60+ years, and a great grandson or who ever sees it while rebuilding it see's that note, it kind of adds a little history to the pla ne.- An unorthodox personal diary. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Yes Bill, the wing tip was for laughs.... My "important" calculations are o n paper in a folder. The more simple- .750 - .375 stuff I just write down on the part...so to speak.- I wonder if anyone has wrapped up a tool or some other object in their plane while covering? --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 2:14 PM You're actually writing your math calculations on the parts? I guess you'll never-misplace them. Of course, you won't be able to refer to them either, without removing the fabric. - Your plane will definitely be one of a kind. - BC - (the "wing tip" comment was a joke, though ...-right?) - From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint I have been doing that sort of this as I build as well. Mostly dates for wh en I finished-this and that and some of my various math calculations, men tal reminders, (WING TIP[and an arrow pointing the direction of the tip]) e tc. -Most of which will be covered up, but it will be like a time capsule when I have to go back and recover it someday or if by chance someone else ends up with the plane. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway-->
Thanks Tim on the "WING TIP----> "-- help. Didn't take the time to try and figure out how to do that on the keyboard.- --- On Wed, 6/17/09, Tim Willis wrote: From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway--> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 4:42 PM et> No, recall that some of these are layout notes.- My spars are marked acco rdingly (e.g.; one note says "right rear butt end"), and I assure you that note refers neither to Rush Limbaugh, my politics nor physiology.- "Wingt ip -->" makes the same sense. Tim in central TX le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway-->
There is also-the white arrow on the vertical stabilizer/rudder. --- On Wed, 6/17/09, TOM STINEMETZE wrote: From: TOM STINEMETZE <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway--> Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 5:17 PM >>> 6/17/2009 3:56 PM >>> >>I myself put one of those arrows on the pilot's seat, just so I remember which way I will be going. >>Dan Helsper >>Poplar Grove, IL - As I recall, one of the F4U Corsairs on the old Black Sheep Squadron televi sion show had an arrow pointing forward on one wing.- 'spect this was to remind him which way to point the thing although with that many horses up f ront there probably wasn't much choice.- Won't have that problem on the C orvair powered Piet. - By the way, thanks for all the good advice a couple of weeks ago.- I was able to meet up with the Painters at Mojave airport and get some in-hanger stick time in Jo-Ann's Air Camper plus a bunch of stories that I will recal l for a long time.- Turns out that Mr. Painter gave the private pilot che ck ride to Christopher Reeves among many others.- Now how would you like to be the one who could say "I taught Superman how to fly?"- Attached pho to is of Mr. Painter, my son Matthew, and myself discovering just how hard it is to fit into the main "pit." - Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Writing inside of the airplane
Copy that Shad, my point exactly. (and it would help if the NTSB was needed ....8^) --- On Wed, 6/17/09, shad bell wrote: From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Writing inside of the airplane Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 6:13 PM I am glad I am not the only one who does that.- I have written notes as t o who built what part, where it was built, date, etc on various parts (of m y Jungster 1, I am building).- Imagine how cool that would if the airplan e is around in 50-60+ years, and a great grandson or who ever sees it while rebuilding it see's that note, it kind of adds a little history to the pla ne.- An unorthodox personal diary. - Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Heath "V"
From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net>
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Does anyone have drawings for the Heath "V" that I could buy, borrow or pay to have copied? will(at)cctc.net Thanks........ Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248822#248822 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 17, 2009
My public apologies to Owen for doubting him. I did some searching on the ETLB forums where the Mini-Max guys hang out, and it turns out that those kits have been using some mix of spruce, douglas fir, and "northern" white pine for a number of years. I couldn't find difinitive answers on what was pine, and what was spruce, though. I guess I'll have to dig my fin kit out and have a closer look! I need to check the wood guides to compare the specs on the white pine. Sorry to stray off topic. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway-->
Date: Jun 17, 2009
It's not a square cushion is it?? Clif "Cogito cogitas, ergo cogito sum." ("I think I think, therefore I think I am.") Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: layout notes-- "wingtip" thataway--> I myself put one of those arrows on the pilot's seat, just so I remember which way I will be going. Dan Helsper ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Wayne Bressler wrote: > My public apologies to Owen for doubting him. No problem. I usually doubt me myself. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpols on the big screen
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 17, 2009
I like the original trailer better, but I am still looking forward to seeing the film. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248850#248850 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 17, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A sad conversation
Group, Today I made the decision to call the original builder of my Jungste r 1 project to let him know I was still actively working on it.- When I c alled I got the dreaded response I was fearing, "He passed away 2 years ago ", his widdow said.- I had not talked to him since I bought the project 9 years ago.- As fate will have it, we never get things done on the time l ine we think we will.- She was glad to talk with me and said she remember s me coming down to look at it and later coming down to buy it and take it home.- She said she would like some pictures of it when I get it done.- I told her I would keep at it, and fly it down so she could see it when I get it done.- It will be great to (hopefully)-let her see a piece of he r husband's work, break the surley bonds of earth, as did his soul 2 years ago.- Now I feel as if he is looking down on every little thing I do on t he construction of "His" Jungster 1.- If any of you have bought unfinnish ed projects, make sure to contact the original builder sooner than later, or it might be too late as was the case for me. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Dale used a 1" piece of 3M Scotchbrite pad attached to a wooden dowel in the drillpress. The 1" circles are overlapped 1/4". I don't know how long it took but Dale reports the job as being "tedious". Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Jim Boyer > Santa Rosa, CA > > Hi Dale, > How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what > did you use for the abrasive to do it? > Thanks, > Jim B. > > > On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: > > > Douwe > > I engine turned the inside & outside. > > Dale > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >> To: pietenpolgroup >> Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? >> >> Douwe >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Corvair buy
Date: Jun 17, 2009
Two days ago I had a conversation with an insurance broker associated with EAA who was referred to me by the editor of the Experimenter and Sport magazines. One of my many questions was about insuring a Corvair powered Pietenpol here in Alaska. He advised against it, and informed me there were some states in the U.S. where flying a Pietenpol with a Corvair engine is not covered by any insurance. I would advise anyone who expects to insure their aircraft to check on this first. My plans won't change, to install and build a Wynne Corvair because I can't get insurance either way if it is certified as an ELSA tailwheel here in Alaska. If I build it and certify it as a homebuilt Experimental amateur built, I may be able to get insurance if I hang a certified engine on it. But I don't see the purpose in that because I want to tweak everything to fly on skis and wheels and want to do the work myself. Just some thoughts. Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, AK KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair buy Procceed Cautiously! Follow Wynne's mannual, and make sure to have the crank magnafluxed, nitrided, and make sure the journals are properly, and generously, radioused. Corvairs do work good, but only if built Well. Feel free to contact me off list for info, or advise. I am no expert, but have learned a few cold had facts about corvairs, and will let you know my experiances with failures, and succeseses. I flew our piet/ vair for about 3 hrs today and had a blast! Shad aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 18, 2009
I did the engine turing on my instrument panels using a piece of scotchbrite glued to an old exhaust valve, spinning in the drillpress. Took me two days to make the fixture to get the overlapping pattern and 15 minutes to actually do the turning on the parts. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint Dale used a 1" piece of 3M Scotchbrite pad attached to a wooden dowel in the drillpress. The 1" circles are overlapped 1/4". I don't know how long it took but Dale reports the job as being "tedious". Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Jim Boyer > Santa Rosa, CA > > Hi Dale, > How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what > did you use for the abrasive to do it? > Thanks, > Jim B. > > > On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: > > > Douwe > > I engine turned the inside & outside. > > Dale > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >> To: pietenpolgroup >> Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? >> >> Douwe >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair buy
If you go experimental amateur built and get your repairman's certificate you can still tweak it and do the work yourself. I ran up against the same problems insuring a Corvair and decided to use a Continental for that reason. You can buy a mid-time Continental for about what it will cost to build a Wynne Corvair anyway. In looking through the regulations I can't see any advantage to register as an ELSA. If you are just flying over remote areas of Alaska where an emergency off-airport landing wouldn't cause any damage on the ground, self-insuring might work, but my local airport is surrounded by residential areas/ Ben Charvet Mims, Fl Rob Stapleton wrote: > > Two days ago I had a conversation with an insurance broker associated > with EAA who was referred to me by the editor of the Experimenter and > Sport magazines. > > One of my many questions was about insuring a Corvair powered > Pietenpol here in Alaska. He advised against it, and informed me there > were some states in the U.S. where flying a Pietenpol with a Corvair > engine is not covered by any insurance. > > I would advise anyone who expects to insure their aircraft to check on > this first. > > My plans wont change, to install and build a Wynne Corvair because I > cant get insurance either way if it is certified as an ELSA tailwheel > here in Alaska. If I build it and certify it as a homebuilt > Experimental amateur built, I may be able to get insurance if I hang a > certified engine on it. But I dont see the purpose in that because I > want to tweak everything to fly on skis and wheels and want to do the > work myself. > > Just some thoughts > > Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist > > Anchorage, AK > > KL2AN > > Skype:rob.stapleton.jr > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *shad > bell > *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair buy > > Procceed Cautiously! Follow Wynne's mannual, and make sure to have > the crank magnafluxed, nitrided, and make sure the journals are > properly, and generously, radioused. Corvairs do work good, but > only if built Well. Feel free to contact me off list for info, or > advise. I am no expert, but have learned a few cold had facts > about corvairs, and will let you know my experiances with > failures, and succeseses. I flew our piet/ vair for about 3 hrs > today and had a blast! > > Shad > > aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com > > * * > * * > ** > * - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -* > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > * --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List* > ** > ** > * - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -* > ** > ** > * --> http://forums.matronics.com* > ** > ** > * - List Contribution Web Site -* > * Thank you for your generous support!* > * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.* > * --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > ** > * * > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: A sad conversation
Shad, if there was ever any motivation to finish a project, you now have it . - --- On Wed, 6/17/09, shad bell wrote: From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: A sad conversation Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 11:26 PM Group, Today I made the decision to call the original builder of my Jungste r 1 project to let him know I was still actively working on it.- When I c alled I got the dreaded response I was fearing, "He passed away 2 years ago ", his widdow said.- I had not talked to him since I bought the project 9 years ago.- As fate will have it, we never get things done on the time l ine we think we will.- She was glad to talk with me and said she remember s me coming down to look at it and later coming down to buy it and take it home.- She said she would like some pictures of it when I get it done.- I told her I would keep at it, and fly it down so she could see it when I get it done.- It will be great to (hopefully)-let her see a piece of he r husband's work, break the surley bonds of earth, as did his soul 2 years ago.- Now I feel as if he is looking down on every little thing I do on t he construction of "His" Jungster 1.- If any of you have bought unfinnish ed projects, make sure to contact the original builder sooner than later, or it might be too late as was the case for me. - Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair buy
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Rob, I fly a Pietenpol with a Corvair in Texas and covered by liability only in surance. Typically you can get the liability only insurance after you fly off the first 40 hours (test phase 1) I did. You just have to ask yourself if insurance (liability only) is worth it. I fly over mostly empty crop fields and some populated areas, I could dama ge a farmers crop in a emergency landing (most likely) or worse (unlikely) But you might be flying over a lot of nothing in Alaska. I pay $ 575.-- per year for liability only, thru SkySmith insurance. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Rob Stapleton <foto(at)alaska.net> Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2009 12:24 am Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair buy Two days ago I had a conversation with an insurance broker associated with EAA who was referred to me by the editor of the Experimenter and Sport ma gazines. =C2- One of my many questions was about insuring a Corvair powered Pietenpol he re in Alaska. He advised against it, and informed me there were some state s in the U.S. where flying a Pietenpol with a Corvair engine is not covere d by any insurance. =C2- I would advise anyone who expects to insure their aircraft to check on thi s first. =C2- My plans won=99t change, to install and build a Wynne Corvair becaus e I can=99t get insurance either way if it is certified as an ELSA tailwheel here in Alaska. If I build it and certify it as a homebuilt Exp erimental amateur built, I may=2 0be able to get insurance if I hang a certified engine on it. But I don =99t see the purpose in that because I want to tweak everything to fly on skis and wheels and want to do the work myself. =C2- Just some thoughts =C2- Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, AK KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr =C2- -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair buy =C2- =C2- Procceed Cautiously!=C2- Follow Wynne's mannual, and make sure to have the crank magnafluxed, nitrided, and make sure the journals are properly, and=C2-generously, radioused.=C2- Corvairs do work good, but only if built Well.=C2- Feel free to contact me off list for info, or advise. =C2- I am no expert, but have learned a few cold had facts about corvair s, and will let you know my experiances with failures, and succeseses.=C2 - I flew our piet/ vair for about 3 hrs today and had a blast! =C2- Shad aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - The Pietenpol-Lis t Email Forum - =C2-=C2- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =C2-=C2- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - A 0=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =C2-=C2- --> http://forums.matronics.com =C2-=C2- --> http://forums.matronics.com =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web Site - =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- - List Contribution Web Site - =C2- Thank you for your generous support! =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =C2-=C2- --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =3 D========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A chicken scratch drawing of a pietenpol dream
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Scout landing gear, Holden 186, and 23" tyres. I know the engine looks huge, but it is only about 5" longer and 5" taller than a Model A. Prop is a bit big, but I didn't scale it, I just drew it on. Is it still a pietenpol? Charley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248905#248905 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Subject: Re: cowling paint
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Jack: You gotta picture of your panel with that work done on it? I am always interested in the circular patterned look, as I think it is particularly cool looking... Mark On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:32 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > I did the engine turing on my instrument panels using a piece of scotchbrite > glued to an old exhaust valve, spinning in the drillpress. Took me two days > to make the fixture to get the overlapping pattern and 15 minutes to > actually do the turning on the parts. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:22 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Dale used a 1" piece of 3M Scotchbrite pad attached to a wooden dowel in the > > drillpress. The 1" circles are overlapped 1/4". I don't know how long it > took but Dale reports the job as being "tedious". > > Greg C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > >> >> >> >> >> Jim Boyer >> Santa Rosa, CA >> >> Hi Dale, >> How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what > >> did you use for the abrasive to do it? >> Thanks, >> Jim B. >> >> >> On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: >> >> >> Douwe >> >> I engine turned the inside & outside. >> >> Dale >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >>> To: pietenpolgroup >>> Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint >>> >> >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? >>> >>> Douwe >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Another Corvair Buy
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
After several months of searching Ive finally found my engine. Actually, I am required to buy an entire car for the core, but Im willing to do that in this particular case. Ive scoured Craigslist, e-bay, local salvage yards and classified ads, etc. for several months, and while Ive been able to weed out several from the description alone, Ive also done a bit of traveling in order to investigate some leads. None so far have panned out, until last Thursday my son and I were driving home from the gun club when we saw a small fenced in area in a little Oklahoma town that had 7 or 8 old cars and trucks inside. At first glance it looked like many other small salvage lots in this particular town, but in the corner of the yard sat a late model Corvair that caught my eye. We turned around and had a look. The vehicle was actually in pretty decent shape compared to some others Ive looked at not drivable, but certainly a good candidate for restoration. The gate was locked, so I jotted down the number and called the fellow the next day. He invited me out to have a look. One look at the back of the car and I saw the "110" emblem... I asked "what year" and he said "sixty-six." We opened the hood and everything was in place air cleaner, carb, shrouds even the factory spare tire with knobs it had never even seen the street. I hope that means that the car was fairly well maintained or has very low miles (I forgot to look). I asked, "you mind if I turn the crank?" as I pulled out my 3/4 wrench... he said, "go right ahead." It turned easily. A light scrape with the box end of the wrench to remove the dirt around the serial number revealed xxxxxRH gigidy gigidy GIG-GA-TY! I asked if he would be willing to part it out and he said no so I asked what he had to have for the whole car he replied, "$500." I told him that Id have to think about it for a bit but in the back of my mind I was actually thinking excellent Smithers. I called him back today an asked if he could take $350 for the whole car he said, "I could, but Im not going to I think its worth what Im asking if Im patient." I think he is right Ive seen worse projects go for more around here. He offered to take $50 off and I accepted. The car is in good shape, and there is a decent Corvair following in the Tulsa area, so Im thinking that I can part some of it out in order to recover some of the expense. Either way I could spend several more weeks or months searching for another suitable candidate, which I may or may not find for less money, but my time is worth something, so Im willing to put this task to bed for a little extra expense up front. Plus it is local... no shipping or freight fees, and Ill be glad to have a cherry, untouched, complete, 66 110HP RH in the shop. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248910#248910 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpols on the big screen
Baldeagle wrote: > > http://www.barnstormingmovie.com/ > > Watch the trailer I don't know what it was, but this brought a tear to my eye. Guess I still am a farm kid at heart. I remember getting all excited when one of my dad's friends would drop into our airstrip unannounced, I'd hop on the bicycle and ride out to see who it was. I'm really looking forward to joining the ranks of the antique, open cockpit airplane owners for exactly the experience this movie shows. Does anyone know when this annual Dirksen fly-in is? As chance would have it, according to the FAA N-number registry Frank owns a Piet built by a "P Heglie." This is the same builder that built N8031 which I will be taking possession of after the current owner flies it to Oshkosh. 'Tis a small world. Looks like P Heglie was a prolific builder, too - the airworthiness dates for both planes were issued in '79 and '80. Cheers, Dan > > Showing at Oshkosh on Sunday night, click on "screenings" > > > > > - > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248787#248787 > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 18, 2009
I've tried to send it Mark, but there are a couple of photos and it totals 1.5 Mbytes so it probably won't make it through. If not, I'll send it just to you. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint Hey Jack: You gotta picture of your panel with that work done on it? I am always interested in the circular patterned look, as I think it is particularly cool looking... Mark On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 3:32 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > > I did the engine turing on my instrument panels using a piece of scotchbrite > glued to an old exhaust valve, spinning in the drillpress. Took me two days > to make the fixture to get the overlapping pattern and 15 minutes to > actually do the turning on the parts. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:22 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Dale used a 1" piece of 3M Scotchbrite pad attached to a wooden dowel in the > > drillpress. The 1" circles are overlapped 1/4". I don't know how long it > took but Dale reports the job as being "tedious". > > Greg C. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > >> >> >> >> >> Jim Boyer >> Santa Rosa, CA >> >> Hi Dale, >> How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what > >> did you use for the abrasive to do it? >> Thanks, >> Jim B. >> >> >> On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: >> >> >> Douwe >> >> I engine turned the inside & outside. >> >> Dale >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >>> To: pietenpolgroup >>> Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint >>> >> >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? >>> >>> Douwe >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: cowling paint
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Usually, one can find a photo of almost anything Piet-related on Chris Tracy's great website westcoastpiet.com. And this is no exception. These photos show Jack's nice engine-turned panels. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Phillips/Laminated_bow_Instru ment.jpg http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Phillips/bhead050059.JPG Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Its about finding exactly what you're looking for and less about the price. Good deals and gimmies are hard to come by. It may be fun to try starting it up before tearing it out and down John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:27:48 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Corvair Buy After several months of searching Ive finally found my engine. Actually, I am required to buy an entire car for the core, but Im willing to do that in this particular case. Ive scoured Craigslist, e-bay, local salvage yards and classified ads, etc. for several months, and while Ive been able to weed out several from the description alone, Ive also done a bit of traveling in order to investigate some leads. None so far have panned out, until last Thursday my son and I were driving home from the gun club when we saw a small fenced in area in a little Oklahoma town that had 7 or 8 old cars and trucks inside. At first glance it looked like many other small salvage lots in this particular town, but in the corner of the yard sat a late model Corvair that caught my eye. We turned around and had a look. The vehicle was actually in pretty decent shape compared to some others Ive looked at not drivable, but certainly a good candidate for restoration. The gate was locked, so I jotted down the number and called the fellow the next day. He invited me out to have a look. One look at the back of the car and I saw the "110" emblem... I asked "what year" and he said "sixty-six." We opened the hood and everything was in place air cleaner, carb, shrouds even the factory spare tire with knobs it had never even seen the street. I hope that means that the car was fairly well maintained or has very low miles (I forgot to look). I asked, "you mind if I turn the crank?" as I pulled out my 3/4 wrench... he said, "go right ahead." It turned easily. A light scrape with the box end of the wrench to remove the dirt around the serial number revealed xxxxxRH gigidy gigidy GIG-GA-TY! I asked if he would be willing to part it out and he said no so I asked what he had to have for the whole car he replied, "$500." I told him that Id have to think about it for a bit but in the back of my mind I was actually thinking excellent Smithers. I called him back today an asked if he could take $350 for the whole car he said, "I could, but Im not going to I think its worth what Im asking if Im patient." I think he is right Ive seen worse projects go for more around here. He offered to take $50 off and I accepted. The car is in good shape, and there is a decent Corvair following in the Tulsa area, so Im thinking that I can part some of it out in order to recover some of the expense. Either way I could spend several more weeks or months searching for another suitable candidate, which I may or may not find for less money, but my time is worth something, so Im willing to put this task to bed for a little extra expense up front. Plus it is local... no shipping or freight fees, and Ill be glad to have a cherry, untouched, complete, 66 110HP RH in the shop. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248910#248910 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: cowling paint
very nice work Jack. The turned look is not my thing, but you have done a g reat job with it; just enough to add character.- By the way, why is that look called "engine turned?" --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:05 PM Usually, one can find a photo of almost anything Piet-related on Chris Trac y's great website westcoastpiet.com. And this is no exception. These photos show Jack's nice engine-turned panel s. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Phillips/Laminated_bow_Instrumen t.jpg http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Phillips/bhead050059.JPG Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
Mark, I say that is a great move! You may be able to recoup some of the $45 0 total price if you part the rest of the car out or sell as is with no-e ngine. (you may get all of your $450...) Like you said, it's local, so no s hipping, hauling, trailers, etc. Plus, you got to see/feel it first hand, n o need to rely on others to tell you what is what! I don't see a down side here. - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
Mark, keep track of the parts of the car that are in good shape.- Clarks Corvair in out east, buys old corvair parts.- And if you are wondering wh at to part it out for, their web site catalog would be a good base line to price certin parts.- It will help offset the $100 per month of materials you will be needing for construction. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Another Corvair Buy
Date: Jun 18, 2009
TRUE! I would see if I could start it up too, just to see if the engine WOULD run! Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of amsafetyc(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another Corvair Buy Its about finding exactly what you're looking for and less about the price. Good deals and gimmies are hard to come by. It may be fun to try starting it up before tearing it out and down John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:27:48 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another Corvair Buy After several months of searching Ive finally found my engine. Actually, I am required to buy an entire car for the core, but Im willing to do that in this particular case. Ive scoured Craigslist, e-bay, local salvage yards and classified ads, etc. for several months, and while Ive been able to weed out several from the description alone, Ive also done a bit of traveling in order to investigate some leads. None so far have panned out, until last Thursday my son and I were driving home from the gun club when we saw a small fenced in area in a little Oklahoma town that had 7 or 8 old cars and trucks inside. At first glance it looked like many other small salvage lots in this particular town, but in the corner of the yard sat a late model Corvair that caught my eye. We turned around and had a look. The vehicle was actually in pretty decent shape compared to some others Ive looked at not drivable, but certainly a good candidate for restoration. The gate was locked, so I jotted down the number and called the fellow the next day. He invited me out to have a look. One look at the back of the car and I saw the "110" emblem... I asked "what year" and he said "sixty-six." We opened the hood and everything was in place air cleaner, carb, shrouds even the factory spare tire with knobs it had never even seen the street. I hope that means that the car was fairly well maintained or has very low miles (I forgot to look). I asked, "you mind if I turn the crank?" as I pulled out my 3/4 wrench... he said, "go right ahead." It turned easily. A light scrape with the box end of the wrench to remove the dirt around the serial number revealed xxxxxRH gigidy gigidy GIG-GA-TY! I asked if he would be willing to part it out and he said no so I asked what he had to have for the whole car he replied, "$500." I told him that Id have to think about it for a bit but in the back of my mind I was actually thinking excellent Smithers. I called him back today an asked if he could take $350 for the whole car he said, "I could, but Im not going to I think its worth what Im asking if Im patient." I think he is right Ive seen worse projects go for more around here. He offered to take $50 off and I accepted. The car is in good shape, and there is a decent Corvair following in the Tulsa area, so Im thinking that I can part some of it out in order to recover some of the expense. Either way I could spend several more weeks or months searching for another suitable candidate, which I may or may not find for less money, but my time is worth something, so Im willing to put this task to bed for a little extra expense up front. Plus it is local... no shipping or freight fees, and Ill be glad to have a cherry, untouched, complete, 66 110HP RH in the shop. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248910#248910 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Thanks guys! I feel even better about my choice. Starting it up before tearing down sounds like fun too. Since my hanger is not climate controlled, but my garage is... I'm not planning to tear into the rebuild until it gets cold out. I may go ahead and get it pulled, place it on a pallet, etc. but I'm saving most of that project for the months when T-88 doesn't mix well. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248961#248961 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
be sure to pull the distributor, and at least spin the oil pump first if it has been sitting a while. No need to run it dry! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Thanks Greg, I bet it was tedious; it would take a lot of 1" circles to cover the whole cowl inside and out. William Wynne had his Piet with an engine turned cowl also. Jim B. On Jun 17, 2009, gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote: Dale used a 1" piece of 3M Scotchbrite pad attached to a wooden dowel in the drillpress. The 1" circles are overlapped 1/4". I don't know how long it took but Dale reports the job as being "tedious". Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Jim Boyer > Santa Rosa, CA > > Hi Dale, > How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what > did you use for the abrasive to do it? > Thanks, > Jim B. > > > On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: > > > Douwe > > I engine turned the inside & outside. > > Dale > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >> To: pietenpolgroup >> Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? >> >> Douwe >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: cowling paint
Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA I remember looking at your Piet last year Jack but was concentrating on landing gear details and miscellaneous fittings so don't remember your instrument panels. I will look more closely at them this year. My instrument panel is aluminium and I was wondering how to do it; vernier or paint or ....? Thanks, Jim B On Jun 18, 2009, pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote: I did the engine turing on my instrument panels using a piece of scotchbrite glued to an old exhaust valve, spinning in the drillpress. Took me two days to make the fixture to get the overlapping pattern and 15 minutes to actually do the turning on the parts. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:22 AM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint Dale used a 1" piece of 3M Scotchbrite pad attached to a wooden dowel in the drillpress. The 1" circles are overlapped 1/4". I don't know how long it took but Dale reports the job as being "tedious". Greg C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim" <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint > > > Jim Boyer > Santa Rosa, CA > > Hi Dale, > How long did it take to engine turn the cowling? How big a circle and what > did you use for the abrasive to do it? > Thanks, > Jim B. > > > On Jun 17, 2009, ddjohn(at)earthlink.net wrote: > > > Douwe > > I engine turned the inside & outside. > > Dale > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >> To: pietenpolgroup >> Date: 6/16/2009 9:12:09 PM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling paint >> > >> >> Hello all, >> >> Did you guys paint the inside of your cowling or leave it bare? >> >> Douwe >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Subject: turned aluminum sheet
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From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Subject: panel ideas
I like this one myself.....:) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Congratulations! Patience is an attribute! Mark On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:32 AM, wrote: > be sure to pull the distributor, and at least spin the oil pump first if it > has been sitting a while. No need to run it dry! > > Boyce > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: panel ideas
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Gee Mikee, can't understand why.... Kip On Jun 18, 2009, at 3:37 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > I like this one myself.....:) > > Mike C. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
I don't know if I would start it or not, it could have plugged oil gallies, broken rings, bent push rods etc etc, it will only have the possibilities of doing more damage.- My advise tear it down, inspect, magnaflux the cra nk, rebuild the heads an the rest of it, then start it up.-- Even if it runs now, that tells nothing about the finished product that will be on yo ur airplane.- .........resist the temptation....resist...---- - - Shad------------------- =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
Good points Shad. For airplane use, you really don't stand to gain anything/much by running it, as I assume this will be a thorough overhaul before flight. Still, it would be fun though huh? Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
I agree. I had two of these engines. Both looked fine, turned by hand, etc. However, after tear down I know that if I had tried to start either one, they would have grenaded, thus created lots more work and expense to rebuild. Btw, both of mine had pretty muchwhat Shad mentioned: plugged oil gallies, broken rings, bent push rods, and etc. (including stuck and bent valves). >I don't know if I would start it or not, it could have plugged oil >gallies, broken rings, bent push rods etc etc, it will only have the >possibilities of doing more damage. My advise tear it down, >inspect, magnaflux the crank, rebuild the heads an the rest of it, >then start it up. Even if it runs now, that tells nothing about >the finished product that will be on your airplane. .........resist >the temptation....resist... > > >Shad > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 18, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: panel ideas
Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA This is a nice treatment for the instrument too Mike; not biased though are you? Jim On Jun 18, 2009, michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov wrote: I like this one myself.....:) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
[quote="RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com"]Good points Shad. For airplane use, you really don't stand to gain anything/much by running it, as I assume this will be a thorough overhaul before flight. Still, it would be fun though huh? Boyce > [b] Now that these points are made, I've got to agree with the comments about not running it. Dang you guys for taking all the fun out... and for saving me $$ on unnecessary repairs. [Laughing] It would be fun though. To answer a question... yes, there will be a thorough rebuild prior to use. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249019#249019 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 18, 2009
Since I suggested it and have dealt with junk yards in the past. There is a strategy in buying from them;: if it has a good body either the owner died or the engine and trans did. For my own I would want to know that going in. When the body has been hit in the rear as corvair one can anticipate broken engine parts if hit in the front and an insurance total engine was good and running which is a good sign. So getting it to run does tell a great deal about it and recommended as it provides a base line from which to approach the tear down and rebuild process. Always nice to know the cracker jack box has a prize in it. John John ------Original Message------ From: Mark Chunard Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: Jun 18, 2009 5:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another Corvair Buy [quote="RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com"]Good points Shad. For airplane use, you really don't stand to gain anything/much by running it, as I assume this will be a thorough overhaul before flight. Still, it would be fun though huh? Boyce > [b] Now that these points are made, I've got to agree with the comments about not running it. Dang you guys for taking all the fun out... and for saving me $$ on unnecessary repairs. [Laughing] It would be fun though. To answer a question... yes, there will be a thorough rebuild prior to use. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249019#249019 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Jun 18, 2009
I have a friend in Wyoming that has a Corvair engine he bought on speculation and tore down and cleaned up and put away.he also has a Wynn manual to build one up-he will never do anything with it I'm sure and is planning a move to Oklahoma this year.if anybody wants to talk to him about it-e-mail me and I'll forward it to him. Raymond. rhano(at)att.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249033#249033 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Another Corvair Buy
Date: Jun 18, 2009
I would have to respectfully disagree, and concur with Shad and Jeff in saying that I don't think there is any good that can come from attempting to get your core motor running. It might be a different story if you needed to try to get it running to determine how extensive of a rebuild you want to undertake. In this case though, you already know that you will be completely disasembling the entire engine and inspecting, reworking, overhauling, or replacing every part. Why run it and risk damaging or destroying any parts? You've done your due diligence in picking your core. Finding a motor in a car means it hasn't been laying outside with exposed carbs or intakes to collect rainwater in the heads (assuming it had the "lid" closed). You verified the year, HP, and block code. And you made sure it turned over by hand. That information gives you the best chance of having a usable core for the aircraft conversion. Attempting to run it does not. Have fun tearing it down when you get to that point. We took apart 3.5 engines in the process of collecting all of the parts we needed. It's plenty of good, messy fun! Ryan Sent from my iPhone On Jun 18, 2009, at 6:24 PM, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote: > > Since I suggested it and have dealt with junk yards in the past. > There is a strategy in buying from them;: if it has a good body > either the owner died or the engine and trans did. For my own I > would want to know that going in. When the body has been hit in the > rear as corvair one can anticipate broken engine parts if hit in the > front and an insurance total engine was good and running which is a > good sign. So getting it to run does tell a great deal about it and > recommended as it provides a base line from which to approach the > tear down and rebuild process. > > Always nice to know the cracker jack box has a prize in it. > > John > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: Mark Chunard > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > To: Pietenpol builders Board > ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board > Sent: Jun 18, 2009 5:56 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another Corvair Buy > > > [quote="RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com"]Good points Shad. For airplane use, > you really don't stand to gain anything/much by running it, as I > assume this will be a thorough overhaul before flight. Still, it > would be fun though huh? > > Boyce > >> [b] > > > Now that these points are made, I've got to agree with the comments > about not running it. Dang you guys for taking all the fun out... > and for saving me $$ on unnecessary repairs. [Laughing] > > It would be fun though. > > To answer a question... yes, there will be a thorough rebuild prior > to use. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249019#249019 > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Subject: Corvair and conversion parts for sale
Date: Jun 18, 2009
I hate to part with it=2C but I need the money... I have nearly everything needed for a William Wynne type conversion with pr obably $1700-$1800 invested. At that price you'd get all I have for some s avings based on the current costs (I bought it a couple years ago) but I'll accept any reasonable offer - I want to see this stuff get used. The only major components I don't have is the rods (I have cores) and rebuilt heads (I have many cores). I could deliver to Oshkosh for sure=2C or Brodhead p ossibly=2C or you could pick-up at my home near Minneapolis=2C MN. Contact me off list if you're sincerely interested - I don't want everyone just hunting for a lowball deal - I'm not giving it away - remember=2C I sa id "reasonable offer" =3B ) I can provide a complete list of what I have off list. Thanks=2C Tom B. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: aluminum buick/olds/rover in piets
Date: Jun 19, 2009
A while back someone was asking about the aluminum buick/olds V8 being used in piets and I wrote that I'd look through my old backissues. Found this one with a picture from 94' Steve Cavanaugh 54 Old Verowra rd Nornsby NSW 2077 It's his third piet and is using the rover V8 which is our buick/olds Quotes "good performance, no problems" I can tell from the photo it is direct drive. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: aluminum buick/olds/rover in piets
From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net>
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Douwe; do you have a picture you could post? Thanks........ Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249079#249079 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
Date: Jun 19, 2009
The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of information in the archives that people should look at more often. Back in 2000, Steve said "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively with doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost for the fir was less than $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. For what it is (or isn't) worth, Steve E." Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown > with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I > realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over > thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on > building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. > Light = better for me :o) > > However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am > re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the > second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for > spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything > but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. > > Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic > things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here > for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and > another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have > impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics > and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane > fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that > he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the > plane. Well (sigh). > > So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other > posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the > equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there > a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" > x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent > strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to > to equal the strength component of the spruce. > > Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? > > The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for > this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called > for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the > plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things > I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till > all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies > with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway > as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches > for my long frame. > > Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle > 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the > details before the build. > > (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this > is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I > just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 > on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off > of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses > as I set up for final... :o) > > Mark > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Question about inspection rings
Date: Jun 19, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Group, I have just finished covering my one-piece wing. I placed numerous inspection rings on the bottom surface in all the logical locations. What have others done when it comes to placing the inspection rings on the top surface. Is this necessary? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Question about inspection rings
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Dan, Inspection rings on the top surface would be ill-advised as the lift pressure would be pulling on them. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings Group, I have just finished covering my one-piece wing. I placed numerous inspection rings on the bottom surface in all the logical locations. What have others done when it comes to placing the inspection rings on the top surface. Is this necessary? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL _____ Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy <http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000003> recipes for the grill. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Question about inspection rings
No inspection rings on top for 92GB.- I don't think I have ever seen insp . rings on top of any airplane, but then again I never paid that much atten tion, it would be a potential water ingress point. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Mark, Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if you phrase it right "when I add my wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) Hope this helps. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:21 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com To pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Jake! My wife is upstairs and just asked "What are you laughing at...?" and I had to say "Nuthin' Honey!" We just watched a 'Forensic File' episode on TRU tv last night where a nurse killed her husband while he slept with some kind of tranquilizer for insurance money... I'm not pushing my luck! I now have an educated wife!! Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:39 AM, wrote: > > Mark, > > Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and > if you phrase it right "when I add my > wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) > > > Hope this helps. > > > Jake > > > *Mark Roberts * > Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > > 06/19/2009 10:21 AM > Please respond to > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > To > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com cc > Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see > what discussions have "been there, done that." > > Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision > process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff > with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need > to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my > wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot > of > > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > > > Back in 2000, Steve said > > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > > with > > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > > for the fir was less than > > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than > 15lbs, > > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > > > Steve E." > > > > Chris > > Sacramento, CA > > WestCoastPiet.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com > > > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > > > mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > >> > >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown > >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I > >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over > >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on > >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. > >> Light = better for me :o) > >> > >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am > >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the > >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for > >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything > >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. > >> > >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic > >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here > >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and > >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have > >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics > >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane > >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that > >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the > >> plane. Well (sigh). > >> > >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other > >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the > >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there > >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" > >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent > >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to > >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. > >> > >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? > >> > >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for > >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called > >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the > >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things > >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till > >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies > >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway > >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches > >> for my long frame. > >> > >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle > >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the > >> details before the build. > >> > >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this > >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I > >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 > >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off > >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses > >> as I set up for final... :o) > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > - > - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL > abs Email Security System. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Question about inspection rings
Date: Jun 19, 2009
No inspection rings on the top surfaces anywhere on 41CC... all are on the shady side. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC Getting engine swap to A75 San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Mark, if your food smells like almonds, don't eat it. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com To pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Jake! My wife is upstairs and just asked "What are you laughing at...?" and I had to say "Nuthin' Honey!" We just watched a 'Forensic File' episode on TRU tv last night where a nurse killed her husband while he slept with some kind of tranquilizer for insurance money... I'm not pushing my luck! I now have an educated wife!! Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:39 AM, wrote: Mark, Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if you phrase it right "when I add my wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) Hope this helps. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:21 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com To pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Question about inspection rings
No inspection rings on top of N1EE's wing. Never seen them on other planes, either. >Group, > >I have just finished covering my one-piece wing. I placed numerous >inspection rings on the bottom surface in all the logical locations. >What have others done when it comes to placing the inspection rings >on the top surface. Is this necessary? > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Subject: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris
Airshow The guy doing the announcing here is a Lockheed-Martin Chief Airshow Test P ilot (talk about a dream job) and has a resemblance to Jim Markle. It does my heart good to know that old guys like us can still fly hot jets like that in airshow demonstrations. (of course we'll never get the opportunity but we can always do smoke jobs at Brodhead or formation with a few other Peterpullers. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/video/?fr_story=dbb8451f3914c4b9ad1ab1d7c5 f35c30fd89404f&rf=bm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Subject: Re: Doug Fir as a substitute
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
You must watch the same show :oD Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 9:24 AM, wrote: > > Mark, > > if your food smells like almonds, don't eat it. > > Jake > > > Mark Roberts > Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > > 06/19/2009 10:52 AM > > Please respond to > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > To > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > cc > Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > Thanks Jake! My wife is upstairs and just asked "What are you laughing > at...?" and I had to say "Nuthin' Honey!" > > We just watched a 'Forensic File' episode on TRU tv last night where a nurse > killed her husband while he slept with some kind of tranquilizer for > insurance money...I'mnotpushingmyluck!Inowhaveaneducatedwife!! > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:39 AM, > wrote: > > Mark, > > Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if > you phrase it right "when I add my > wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) > > > Hope this helps. > > > Jake > > > Mark Roberts > Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > > 06/19/2009 10:21 AM > > Please respond to > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > To > pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > cc > Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see > what discussions have "been there, done that." > > Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision > process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff > with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need > to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my > wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: >> >> The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the >> archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of >> information in the archives that people should look at more often. >> >> Back in 2000, Steve said >> "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively >> with >> doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost >> for the fir was less than >> $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per >> board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than >> 15lbs, >> if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. >> >> For what it is (or isn't) worth, >> >> Steve E." >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> WestCoastPiet.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute >> >> >>> >>> >>> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >>> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >>> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >>> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >>> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >>> Light = better for me :o) >>> >>> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >>> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >>> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >>> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >>> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >>> >>> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >>> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >>> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >>> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >>> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >>> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >>> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >>> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >>> plane. Well (sigh). >>> >>> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >>> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >>> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >>> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >>> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >>> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >>> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >>> >>> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >>> >>> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >>> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >>> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >>> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >>> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >>> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >>> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >>> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >>> for my long frame. >>> >>> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >>> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >>> details before the build. >>> >>> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >>> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >>> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >>> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >>> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >>> as I set up for final... :o) >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > - > - > - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL > abs Email Security System. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > - > - > - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL > abs Email Security System. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 19, 2009
Subject: Re: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris
Air... The only way to tell the difference is Markle doesn't fly jets! Now if it were the Piet well then it could be Markle in the split S maneuver. John **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 19, 2009
From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Straight Axle gear questions
congratulation for you great progres in you piet im in the same for now vis it my wife and my child in mexico i hope sooner you put your engine in thes e beauty ship seyou next jorge from hanford --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Michael Groah wrote: From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:48 PM Thank you for the help, both Jack and Dan.- Yes Dan I've read the gear co nstruction write up that Chris did on westcoastpiet.com.- I chose to do m ine differently (right side up), but still got the job done.- Thanks for the tips.- I'll get to work on the axle part soon.- Hopefully you can s ee the attached pic of what I have done thus far.- Mike Groah Tulare CA --- On Mon, 6/15/09, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: From: helspersew(at)aol.com <helspersew(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 4:10 PM Mike, Please see the attached. As you might see, I have elongated the "sheath" tu be on my "axle locator" tube system into an oval shape. This is to allow a "rocking" motion on the gear, without putting an undo strain on the tube th at is welded onto the axle. Please note I have not flown with this set-up. I unashamedly copied it from Simon McCormack from "down under" www.westcoas tpiet.com. They look at things from a "different" perspective there, and ma ny times have some superb ideas. Also, have you looked at Chris Tracey's st raight axle gear fabrication instructions on the westcoastpiet site? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:36 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Ok , I have been working on my straight axle gear, but I have a couple of q uestions. First how much room should I allow between the gear legs and the brakes for the bungees?- If I remember correctly Jack Phillips said he le ft 6".--- Also how much travel should I allow for the axle.- What I 'm asking about is the axle locator tube system like Mike Cuy has that keep s the axle from rotating or sliding from side to side.- How much length s hould I have? Mike Groah Tulare CA Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Inspections
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 19, 2009
When building an experimental, what inspections and logs are required and how extensive should they be? Should an completed experimental aircraft that has no logs or inspections ever be purchased and what steps would have to be taken to make it "legal"? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249188#249188 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Inspections
Up here in Ottawa I completed a GN-1 Aircamper and registered it as an ultr alight which ment I didn't have to go through any of the processes you ment ion below.I fly regular and have a lot of fun.Since I am registered as a ba sic ultralight pilot I am not allowed to carry passengers so I have a batte ry in the front seat for electric starts.The difference for me to register as an ultralight instead of a homebuilt was thousands of dollars in savings .I did however have an AME(aircraft maintenance engineer )look at the aircr aft upon completion just for my own piece of mind but he was not required t o sign off on anything and he is a good friend of mine so it really didn't cost much.The first time I flew her was in 2006 and she flew as advertised. Up here in Canada an ultralight can be as heavy as 1235 lbs. with floats.In the US they are still at the 250 lbs. so you can't do this.They do however have the Sport rating which reuires you to probably have to go through much of what you ask.I also own an N3PUP which at the moment-I c an't fly because the engine isn't powerful enough to get my 200 lbs. frame off the ground-.I made the mistake of taking a 503 which was timed out, o ff and replacing it with a 1/2 VW which is OK if your 150 lbs.I really need an HKS or something of that power. The PUP weighs around 650 lbs. full up and it too is registered as an ultralight.-Both are for sale since I am t rying to get out of the hanger which cost $3000 per year.I'd like to eventu ally get a-Hummel Bird with trailor then my costs would go way down.- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ozarkflyer <lragan@ hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00:31 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Inspections=0A=0A--> Pietenpol- List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" =0A=0AWhen buildin g an experimental, what inspections and logs are required and how extensive should they be?- Should an completed experimental aircraft that has no l ogs or inspections ever be purchased and what steps would have to be taken to make it "legal"?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:// forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249188#249188=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =============== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Inspections/ Hummel Bird
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Harvey: Going a bit off topic here, but allong the Hummel thread.... Have you seen this one? http://luciolemc30.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cfrih8v5bM http://www.hiboox.fr/go/albums/divers/luciole-mc30-salon-de-l-aviation-ve rte,cb400ceecaf72159a4cc87161cc54125 Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: H RULE To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com . Both are for sale since I am trying to get out of the hanger which cost $3000 per year.I'd like to eventually get a Hummel Bird with trailor then my costs would go way down. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Can anyone suggest a safety wire method for this turnbuckle? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 20, 2009
what, you questioning about the end in the photo?? just run the wire around the end and single wrap it. It does not have to go through the hole with the pin to do it's job. Or am I missing the question?? Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Jun 20, 2009
I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mandy & Michael Green" <mmml(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Gary, You could use turnbarrel clips. See picture. Mike Green Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Can anyone suggest a safety wire method for this turnbuckle? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) __________ NOD32 4174 (20090620) Information __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Thanks, Mike! Unfortunately, I did not buy the clip type of barrel (not sure If the Pietenpol Police would allow it). ;-) I'm too cheap to replace them, too. As a matter of fact, I seriously considered some of the old-time alternatives to turnbuckles! Those things are WAY TOO EXPENSIVE! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mandy & Michael Green Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Gary, You could use turnbarrel clips. See picture. Mike Green Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Can anyone suggest a safety wire method for this turnbuckle? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) __________ NOD32 4174 (20090620) Information __________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Gene, Re-reading your reply.and I had considered that, too. You were not missing anything. Anyway, I ended up drilling a hole.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety what, you questioning about the end in the photo?? just run the wire around the end and single wrap it. It does not have to go through the hole with the pin to do it's job. Or am I missing the question?? Gene ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 20, 2009
I thought I should include a picture showing my fix...sorry for the fuzziness, but the hole is the shiny part, just at the end of the turnbuckle end. I know, I know...if the Gestapo sees this I could lose my A&P cert. This fix would not be a consideration if these were primary control cables. Gary Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Subject: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
I need a quick Corvair lesson, as I rather unexpectedly fell into several opportunities today. We have a local program on Saturday Mornings called 'Radio Tradio' where you can call in and sell stuff for a couple of hours. You can also request stuff you're looking for. So, as I was on my way to the airport to fly a plane up to an airshow for the afternoon to exhibit it for sale (for a friend of mine), I called the number and actually got through. I told the listeners i was a lookin' for a corvair core or motor, vintage 1965 or so, but it had to be the 110 hp motor. Gave my phone number, and thought, 'Yeah, right....' Well, I got about 4 calls from that from people that had motors/parts etc. One guy lives a bit away, and said 'I gotta full on motor been sittin' in my barn from like, 1985 or so. It's yours if you want it. I don't even think I'd charge ya...' He said it came off a 'spider', and that was an unknown to me. I was in a rush to leave for the airshow, so I didn't know what more to ask, and I thought I had better make sure I am looking for the right stuff, as I have seen a few posts that reference serial numbers and other markings that make it proper for our purposes. I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I can get what is needed) would be helpful. Thanks to all! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4!
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Mark: If you can open up the top and look at the crank you are looking for the 8409 number on it. It means it is the later model long throw crank and the case is the one that goes with it, (clearanced for longer throw). That is half the battle. Anything with an 8409 crank is usefull, even if it is a 140/180 hp you can get the right 110 heads separetely later if needed. If it is a 180 the crank is likely to be nitrided which is even more desireable For more details print these pages from the links bellow and take them with you when you go look at it. case number ID http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/VinSuffix.html head number ID desireable ones are highlited http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/HeadNumbers.html more http://www.corvaircraft.com/ Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > > I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance > to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what > to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I > can get what is needed) would be helpful. > > Thanks to all! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4!
I am not positive, but I think the spyder was a 140hp engine, and I don't t hink it is on the peferred list for an aircraft conversion, but I might be wrong.- If I can find dad's wynne books I'll look it up. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 20, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Remember though, the turnbuckle saftey clips only work on MS turnbuckles, t hey won't work on AN turnbuckles, There is no slot on the barrel or the for k or eye ends to slide the clips on an AN turnbuckle. - Shad In WI-I-I-I-INDY Ohio=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4!
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Mark: Let me add to my previous note that ideally what you want is a 110 non-smog engine. But anything with an 8409 crank will do especially if it is a freebie. No matter what you do, do not tear in to it until you get WW's manual so you get the details on the particulars, and under no circumstance remove the long head bolts from the case. These will be some degree of trouble as the lower set are likely to exhibit some rust on the ends and the nuts will not want to budge without turning the stud in the case. good luck Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! >> > I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance > to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what > to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I > can get what is needed) would be helpful. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Subject: Invitation to view Mark's Picasa Web Album - My visit
at The Groah's
From: Mark <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hi Guys: I always find it interesting to see some of the people that we correspond with on the list. Put's a face with a name. I happen to live an hour away from one of the list members, and surprisingly have driven by their house on many occasions, not knowing there was a plane being built in the shop, or that there was such a nice guy living there. Well, so happens that by asking iof there was anyone building a Piet near Fresno CA that I met a couple of really nice guys yesterday. Have a look... http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=RobertsChristmas2007&target=ALBUM&id=5349598279130209457&authkey=Gv1sRgCIPixMiX0oXd-AE&invite=CLSirvAM&feat=email ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4!
Date: Jun 20, 2009
Mark, Further note...If he's 'giving' you the engine, no matter which one, don't turn it down. It's good trading material. My first engine that I got (before I had WW's book) was a 140 hp. The guy that rebuilt my heads traded mine for the right ones. I got the right crank thru a different deal. Corvair race guys are looking for the 140 engines. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! Mark: Let me add to my previous note that ideally what you want is a 110 non-smog engine. But anything with an 8409 crank will do especially if it is a freebie. No matter what you do, do not tear in to it until you get WW's manual so you get the details on the particulars, and under no circumstance remove the long head bolts from the case. These will be some degree of trouble as the lower set are likely to exhibit some rust on the ends and the nuts will not want to budge without turning the stud in the case. good luck Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! >> > I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance > to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what > to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I > can get what is needed) would be helpful. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 21, 2009
You don't have to drill holes or any other exotic things. The whole idea is to keep the barrel from turning so just run the wire through the space between the turnbuckle end and the landing gear bracket inside the motorcycle links. > Jim, > > Thanks for asking! Tomorrow I will safety the turnbuckles, but I still > have > work to do on the axle. It will be similar to Dan Helsper's (but not so > brightly painted). > > Gary Boothe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Can I use 12 Gage spokes in my 17"wheels
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Building my wheels, finished the hubs, and I was looking at my new spokes I began to wonder, My spokes are 12 gage, will that be strong enough? The wheels are 17", tyres are 2 3/4" . I haven't bent or rolled the threads yet. CHarley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249333#249333 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Can I use 12 Gage spokes in my 17
I think most use 10ga... http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=67 -----Original Message----- >From: rameses32 <rameses32(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Jun 21, 2009 7:43 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Can I use 12 Gage spokes in my 17"wheels > > >Building my wheels, finished the hubs, and I was looking at my new spokes I began to wonder, My spokes are 12 gage, will that be strong enough? The wheels are 17", tyres are 2 3/4" . I haven't bent or rolled the threads yet. >CHarley > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249333#249333 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Happy fathers day to all John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Hey Darrel Just wanted to make sure you received my payment. Please advise Thanks John Recine In a message dated 6/4/2009 10:53:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wd6bor(at)vom.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Darrel Jones I just received another request for a copy of the Pfeifer Sport plans, so thought I would check and make sure that everyone who requested a copy received them. So far I have sent out about 30 discs and heard back from about a third of those who requested the copies. Let me know if you asked for one but didn't receive it. See you at Brodhead! Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JunestepsfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: A75 swap on 41CC
Date: Jun 21, 2009
I've put up some pictures of the ongoing work of swapping the engine on 41CC to an A75. Getting there! Pictures are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/A75.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks guys! I'm going to try to get in touch with the feller in my own town today that said he had several parts and cores to chose from. I will print the pages of this thread and those attached to reference. THANKS for the help and advice. I think I have the stuff I planned to sell sold and I will be getting the plans and Wynnes book soon so I can begin to answer at least a few of my own question! Mark On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Mark, > > Further note...If he's 'giving' you the engine, no matter which one, don't > turn it down. It's good trading material. My first engine that I got (before > I had WW's book) was a 140 hp. The guy that rebuilt my heads traded mine for > the right ones. I got the right crank thru a different deal. Corvair race > guys are looking for the 140 engines. > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael > Silvius > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:58 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! > > > Mark: > > Let me add to my previous note that ideally what you want is a 110 non-smog > engine. But anything with an 8409 crank will do especially if it is a > freebie. > > No matter what you do, do not tear in to it until you get WW's manual so you > get the details on the particulars, and under no circumstance remove the > long head bolts from the case. These will be some degree of trouble as the > lower set are likely to exhibit some rust on the ends and the nuts will not > want to budge without turning the stud in the case. > > good luck > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:11 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! > > >>> >> I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance >> to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what >> to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I >> can get what is needed) would be helpful. >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Gary, you didn't drill through the turnbuckle fitting did you!!!!!!!!!???????????? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe<mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I thought I should include a picture showing my fix...sorry for the fuzziness, but the hole is the shiny part, just at the end of the turnbuckle end. I know, I know...if the Gestapo sees this I could lose my A&P cert. This fix would not be a consideration if these were primary control cables. Gary Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety > I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 8409 Corvair Crankshaft
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Perhaps this should be in the Corvair engine section, but there is much more activity in the Piet section, and plenty of Corvair gurus. Simple question... does this look like and 8409 crankshaft to you guys? This number is stamped between the 1st and 2nd connecting rod journals. The "84" portion as perfectly clear, but the other two digits could be an two round characters... difficult to make out. Could it be anything else? I mean, were there other series of numbers they stamped that may be similar, or is it a pretty safe bet that "8 4 X X" is 8409. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249389#249389 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/8409_214.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 8409 Corvair Crankshaft
Date: Jun 21, 2009
That's an 8409 crank, Mark. To me, the '09' is faint, but it's there. Either way, the only other codes that would be stamped are 5607, and I think 7293. So you have the right one. Congrats! Ryan Sent from my iPhone On Jun 21, 2009, at 3:32 PM, "K5YAC" wrote: > > Perhaps this should be in the Corvair engine section, but there is > much more activity in the Piet section, and plenty of Corvair gurus. > > Simple question... does this look like and 8409 crankshaft to you > guys? This number is stamped between the 1st and 2nd connecting rod > journals. The "84" portion as perfectly clear, but the other two > digits could be an two round characters... difficult to make out. > Could it be anything else? I mean, were there other series of > numbers they stamped that may be similar, or is it a pretty safe bet > that "8 4 X X" is 8409. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249389#249389 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/8409_214.jpg > >

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Subject: Re: 8409 Corvair Crankshaft
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> > Perhaps this should be in the Corvair engine section, but there is much > more activity in the Piet section, and plenty of Corvair gurus. > AND their are no arrogant jerks on the Piet newsgroup , the corvair aircraft newsgroup is full of them for some reason. > > > Simple question... does this look like and 8409 crankshaft to you guys? > This number is stamped between the 1st and 2nd connecting rod journals. > The "84" portion as perfectly clear, but the other two digits could be an > two round characters... difficult to make out. Could it be anything else? > I mean, were there other series of numbers they stamped that may be > similar, or is it a pretty safe bet that "8 4 X X" is 8409. > > Don't know of anything else that crank number could be but 8409. Rick > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 8409 Corvair Crankshaft
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Thanks fellers... so far, this disassembly is looking great. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249403#249403 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bmccraw(at)cogeco.ca
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: Jun 21, 2009
> Darrel: Can you send a copy of the Pfeifer plans to Canada? Tell me how much and I'll send it. Thanks Bill McCraw > > Hey Darrel > > Just wanted to make sure you received my payment. > > Please advise > > Thanks > > John Recine > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: 8409 Corvair Crankshaft
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Sure looks like it to me. The other way to tell, if your crank wont turn enough to see the number is by looking for the case clearance cut out where the connecting rod bolts go past the side of the case right by the cylinder bore. Stick the tip of your finger in there and feel for the swath of the case that has been machined out to clearance the travel of the connecting rod bolt. If it does not have it has the old short throw crank. Not the end of the world but the case made for the 8409 is the desirable one. To see what you are looking for on the case go to Pat Panzera' page at: http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/CaseClearance.html first pix is an older case for the short throw crank the third pix is what you are looking for. As you notice Pat shows us the way to make an old case fit an 8409 crank. So if some one gives you an old case I would not turn it down either. A while back I was the fortunate recipient of just such a gift via our comrade at arms Alan Lyscars. Some day I will try Pat Panzeras conversion trick just for yuks. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> > > Simple question... does this look like and 8409 crankshaft to you guys? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: 8409 Corvair Crankshaft
Date: Jun 21, 2009
More details on the subject of Corvair engine identification from Pat Panzera's page at: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/EngineID.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Subject: Re: A75 swap on 41CC
Beautiful. I'm as proud as you. Corky **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Turnbuckle safety
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Yes. I know that renders it un-usable in the world of certified aircraft, but I am really not concerned in this use. As I said, I would never do this on primary controls. I would be willing to bet that there are flying Piets out there without AN hardware. Do you, or anyone on this list, have experience that would dictate other? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety Gary, you didn't drill through the turnbuckle fitting did you!!!!!!!!!???????????? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I thought I should include a picture showing my fix...sorry for the fuzziness, but the hole is the shiny part, just at the end of the turnbuckle end. I know, I know...if the Gestapo sees this I could lose my A&P cert. This fix would not be a consideration if these were primary control cables. Gary Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual
Date: Jun 21, 2009
I am nominating William Wynne=2C "The Corvair Authority"=2C for this award based on his tireless contributions towards experimental aviation and affor dable engine conversions for our airplanes. William is the perfect example of what it means to be an outstanding individual in light aircraft develop ment. I encourage you to place your own e-vote by emailing lpburke5@comcas t.net and voting for William. Thanks. Here's the text of the invitation: >Dear Aviation Enthusiast (via editor(at)contactmagazine.com): > > Some time ago in early Jun we asked for your nomination of some > individual in the field of light aviation that you think deserving of > the prestigious "LAMA Award for Outstanding Individual." > > We value your input very much=2C as the winner is the one who receives > the most nominations=2C and we want to make sure that we are getting a > representative cross-section of the USA and International light > aviation community. > > Each year at EAA AirVenture=2C the Light Aircraft Manufacturers > Association (LAMA) awards some individual this award. >The award is presented at show central the first day of AirVenture. > This will be our 18th year of presenting this award. > > Therefore=2C we ask you to please nominate someone you think deserving > of the award. > Previous winners of the award=2C no longer eligible=2C appear below. > > Thank you very much! > > Larry Burke=2C Chair Emeritus > Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association > > Here are our past winners: > > Dick VanGrunsven > Randy Schlitter > Lance Neibauer > Phil Reed > Homer Kolb > Dennis Soder > Tom Peghiny > Bob Gavinsky > Darryl Murphy > Chris Heintz > Chuck Slusarczyk > Mike Loehle > Phil Lockwood > Earl Lawrence > Dan Johnson > Eric Tucker > Matthias Betsch > Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Can I use 12 Gage spokes in my 17
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2009
I can fully understand why my wife says I am an idiot sometimes, I just looked at my pack of spokes, and they are 10 gage.I dug through 50 packs of 12 gage to find them last week and for some reason I had it in my little brain that they were 12 gage, duhhh, I am so smart "S*M*R*T". Now back to drilling 72 holes Charley Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249466#249466 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Well, I finally weighed the Holden 186 inline 6 engine:(
From: "rameses32" <rameses32(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2009
Comes in at 285lbs, thats without water pump, prop, prop hub, radiator, manifold, exhaust or carburetor. Bit on the heavy side, even with the better performance than the Model A ford engine, I don't think I can use it unless I want to build the Piet as a single seater. Drat, oh well back to the drawing board:) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249467#249467 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: "LAMA Award for Outstanding Individual"
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Mr. Larry Burke Chair Emeritus Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association (LAMA) vial EMAIL June 22, 2009 Dear Larry: I have the honor and privilege to nominate Mr. William Wynne, of Orange Park, Florida, to receive this year's LAMA Award for Outstanding Individual. Mr. Wynne exemplifies and promotes an, in the twenty-first century, almost lost craft in the field of Light Aviation: namely, the conversion of powerplant technology from almost half a century ago to the needs of homebuilt light aircraft builders today. I have known William for at least five years. The last time we had a chance to "compare notes" was nearly three weeks ago when I attended one of William's "Corvair Colleges" in Lowell, Massachusetts. William's Corvair College is usually hosted and supported by local light airplane builders, like me, located in various regions of our country who invite William to come and share his more than twenty years of Corvair engine conversion-to-airwork experience. William, to my knowledge, has never accepted a gratuity or stipend for this work; indeed, I sense William's remuneration is gained from the satisfaction of seeing his years of research and testing of the Corvair engine for air come to fruition in the completion of airworthy engines by his students. Absolutely, William Wynne is an Educator in the best sense of the word. And I think, even more importantly, William Wynne has and continues to do great service to we least advantaged of all aviators: those of little money but great enthusiasm and mechanical ability. William, all by himself, has helped to bridge 20th century engine technology toward the needs of 21st century airplane builders. Mr. Wynne represents, in fact, the spirit of aviation, of the I-can-do-it-movement- that was so stunningly expressed by Orville and Wilbur Wright over a century ago. I believe that the Committee would be severely remiss in not awarding Mr. William Wynne this year's LAMA Award for Outstanding Individual. Therefore I heartily, and highly, recommend him for this award. Please feel free to contact me with any question/comment. Truly yours, Alan S. Lyscars Manchester, New Hampshire GN-1 Aircamper Builder 110 hp Corvair Engine Builder AOPA ASN Rep B19 (Maine) Ramp Agent, Southwest Airlines (MHT) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Darrel, I must have missed the first of this thread. Is the Pfeifer a derivation or a counterpart of the Pietenpol? If so, what does it do/ how is it built differently? While I am too far along in the Corky/Tim build to incorporate any of its innovations, I'm always a curious fellow, as many will attest, often not in the most polite use of the word. Tim in central TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
I too, a newbie to the thread when the Pfeifer was discussed am curious about it... I will see if I can search the archives an see what it is, but if you have a pointer towards info, I'd be interested too... Mark On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Tim Willis wrote: > > > Darrel, > > I must have missed the first of this thread. Is the Pfeifer a derivation or a counterpart of the Pietenpol? If so, what does it do/ how is it built differently? > > While I am too far along in the Corky/Tim build to incorporate any of its innovations, I'm always a curious fellow, as many will attest, often not in the most polite use of the word. > > Tim in central TX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pfeifer Sport plans
Date: Jun 22, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
You guys really need to take advantage of the Search function on the Pietenpol List. http://www.matronics.com/search/ I just did a search for "Pfeifer" on the Pietenpol List, and came up with 47 replies. A few minutes of reading and you'll be right up to speed. Or, if that's too labor intensive for you, try these links: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=58840&sid=7400dd3c495b564 86e e22d51a8a19178 here's the original thread: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=57833&highlight=pfeifer Seriously, though, give the Search function a try - it's a very useful tool. You can find useful information on just about any Piet-related topic there. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Duly noted. Sorry for clogging up the thread. I have not tried the serch feature of this list yet, so I ill do so in the future before posting. Thanks for the links Bill! Mark On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 9:10 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > > You guys really need to take advantage of the Search function on the > Pietenpol List. > > *http://www.matronics.com/search/* > > I just did a search for "Pfeifer" on the Pietenpol List, and came up with > 47 replies. A few minutes of reading and you'll be right up to speed. > > Or, if that's too labor intensive for you, try these links: > > * > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=58840&sid=7400dd3c495b56486ee22d51a8a19178 > *<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=58840&sid=7400dd3c495b56486ee22d51a8a19178> > > here's the original thread: > > *http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=57833&highlight=pfeifer*> > > Seriously, though, give the Search function a try - it's a very useful > tool. You can find useful information on just about any Piet-related topic > there. > > Bill C. > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Darrel, I would very much like a set. Are you planning on being at Brodhead this year? if so I could pick them up then, save you shipping. Thanks Jake Spiegel 1025 5th st Jesup Iowa, 50648 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Here! Here! I second that. William spoke to me on the phone for over an hour several months ago, prior to purchasing a single thing from him. It wasn't a sales pitch... he was very informative and honest as he answered many of my beginner questions. I have since purchased several of his educational items. Some of the best $$ I've spent so far. He and his materials have given me confidence in using the Corvair. In fact... here is a photo from my garage yesterday! Car was delivered Friday, engine was out Saturday... after a few days for the head bolts to soak in PB Blaster I'll break it down further and get the parts out to the appropriate shops. Thanks William! Hope you Win! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249559#249559 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/myvair_183.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fw: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com sent this to
you using Google Maps: Search results for "pietenpol"
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 22, 2009
if anyone would like have a pin added for them let me know. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=pietenpol&mrt=kmlkmz&sll=42.948381,-91.702881&sspn=5.677084,9.755859&ie=UTF8&z=7 > Jake Spiegel This email was sent to you by a user on Google Maps (maps.google.com) ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Subject: Re: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Mark, Have fun with the tear-down. The head nuts are always fun to try and remove. One of the methods we tried, which helped to prevent the studs from turning out with the nuts, was to take a pair of vise grips and clamp them tightly onto the head stud near the base of the cylinder (below the fins, so you can the most engagement). Ideally, have a helper hold the vise grips while you attempt to turn the nut off the head. Although you can't get a super strong grip on base of the stud, something is better than nothing, and it can be just enough to keep the stud from turning on you. We had a pair of vise grips with slightly worn jaws, so it didn't leave much of a mark on the studs. Good luck, and have fun! Ryan On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM, K5YAC wrote: > > Here! Here! I second that. > > William spoke to me on the phone for over an hour several months ago, prior > to purchasing a single thing from him. It wasn't a sales pitch... he was > very informative and honest as he answered many of my beginner questions. > > I have since purchased several of his educational items. Some of the best > $$ I've spent so far. He and his materials have given me confidence in > using the Corvair. > > In fact... here is a photo from my garage yesterday! Car was delivered > Friday, engine was out Saturday... after a few days for the head bolts to > soak in PB Blaster I'll break it down further and get the parts out to the > appropriate shops. > > Thanks William! Hope you Win! > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249559#249559 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/myvair_183.jpg > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pfeifer Sport plans
You are right, Bill. Thanks for the reminder and links. Tim -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> >Sent: Jun 22, 2009 11:10 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pfeifer Sport plans > > >You guys really need to take advantage of the Search function on the >Pietenpol List. > >http://www.matronics.com/search/ > > >I just did a search for "Pfeifer" on the Pietenpol List, and came up >with 47 replies. A few minutes of reading and you'll be right up to >speed. >Or, if that's too labor intensive for you, try these links: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=58840&sid=7400dd3c495b56486e >e22d51a8a19178 > > >here's the original thread: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=57833&highlight=pfeifer > > >Seriously, though, give the Search function a try - it's a very useful >tool. You can find useful information on just about any Piet-related >topic there. > >Bill C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Fw: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com sent this
to you using Google Maps: Search results for "pietenpol"
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Brian Jardine SLC-Utah From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com sent this to you using Google Maps: Search results for "pietenpol" if anyone would like have a pin added for them let me know. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=pie tenpol&mr t=kmlkmz&sll=42.948381,-91.702881&sspn=5.677084,9.755859&ie=UTF8& z=7 <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=pi etenpol&m rt=kmlkmz&sll=42.948381,-91.702881&sspn=5.677084,9.755859&ie=UTF8 &z=7> > Jake Spiegel This email was sent to you by a user on Google Maps (maps.google.com) ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Mark, Something else that I have done over the years, on other rusty nuts is to carefully heat the nut/bolt then spray the opposite end of the bolt, or in your case the middle of the bolt, with R134A, Often the Place the socket or box end and test for rotation. Jake Ryan Mueller Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 06/22/2009 02:13 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com To pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual Mark, Have fun with the tear-down. The head nuts are always fun to try and remove. One of the methods we tried, which helped to prevent the studs from turning out with the nuts, was to take a pair of vise grips and clamp them tightly onto the head stud near the base of the cylinder (below the fins, so you can the most engagement). Ideally, have a helper hold the vise grips while you attempt to turn the nut off the head. Although you can't get a super strong grip on base of the stud, something is better than nothing, and it can be just enough to keep the stud from turning on you. We had a pair of vise grips with slightly worn jaws, so it didn't leave much of a mark on the studs. Good luck, and have fun! Ryan On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 1:40 PM, K5YAC wrote: Here! Here! I second that. William spoke to me on the phone for over an hour several months ago, prior to purchasing a single thing from him. It wasn't a sales pitch... he was very informative and honest as he answered many of my beginner questions. I have since purchased several of his educational items. Some of the best $$ I've spent so far. He and his materials have given me confidence in using the Corvair. In fact... here is a photo from my garage yesterday! Car was delivered Friday, engine was out Saturday... after a few days for the head bolts to soak in PB Blaster I'll break it down further and get the parts out to the appropriate shops. Thanks William! Hope you Win! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249559#249559 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/myvair_183.jpg ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rusty Nuts
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Mark, Several years ago I purchased Micro Soldering and Welding kit from Harbor Freight. some of the best money ever spent. It allows you to place pin point heat exactly where you want it. I have worked on some seriously rusty stuff over the years and Something else I have done numerous time with success is to clean any exposed threads with a wire wheel, heat and apply wax (in the form of left over birthday candles) directly to the Nut/bolt interface, too much heat and the wax burns, too little and it just sits there, just right and it will get sucked down into the thread interface, making removal much easier. Jake Micro Torch 3687-6VGA uses disposable cylinders 95671-0VGA hooks to your OA regulators What I have. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Yep, that is part of the reason I stopped where I did... in order to take my time and carefully prepare for the head removal. I soaked the head nuts twice yesterday with PB Blaster. The left side of the engine (as the prop flies) looks ok (oily and greasy, but the nuts and threads look clean) under all that gook. The right side is another story... rusty and slightly jagged looking threads. I'll just continue to be cautious and hopefully they will come off ok. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249581#249581 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Tim, I thought I had sent you this article on my airplane, but here it is again. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA Tim Willis wrote: > > > Darrel, > > I must have missed the first of this thread. Is the Pfeifer a derivation or a counterpart of the Pietenpol? If so, what does it do/ how is it built differently? > > While I am too far along in the Corky/Tim build to incorporate any of its innovations, I'm always a curious fellow, as many will attest, often not in the most polite use of the word. > > Tim in central TX > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
From: Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com>
Subject: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans
Oops! My apologies to the list for sending an attachment in my reply. I keep forgetting to reply to the sender but my email program includes everyone. Tim, I'll send you the Sport Aviation article directly. I'm looking forward to seeing and meeting everyone at Brodhead this year! I won't be bringing the Pfeifer, but will be there in a Stinson. Darrel Jones Sonoma, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: GN-1 plans sheet count
Hello GN-1 builders, Could anyone tell me if the GN-1 plans have 17 sheets? I have located a GN-1 plans set for sale and the seller has 17 sheets and neither one of us knows if that makes it complete. The seller is not a builder and does not know anything about the plans except they seem to be in good condition. Thanks! Ameet Omaha, NE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 22, 2009
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
I have the newer CAD GN-1 plans - 10 pages. Rick On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Ameet Savant wrote: > > > Hello GN-1 builders, > > Could anyone tell me if the GN-1 plans have 17 sheets? I have located a > GN-1 plans set for sale and the seller has 17 sheets and neither one of us > knows if that makes it complete. The seller is not a builder and does not > know anything about the plans except they seem to be in good condition. > > Thanks! > Ameet > Omaha, NE > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Photos from Brussels
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 22, 2009
I've just posted some photos I took at the 20th Annual Brussels Pietenpol Picnic, in Brussels, Ontario on Saturday. They can be found here: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=342 Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249632#249632 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Photos from Brussels
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Bill, Great pictures, thanks! Could you share more information about flying in Europe? Fuel prices, taxes, etc. Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
Ameet, I believe those are the old plans; I have a set of them and there are Sheets 1-15 plus a Sheet "A" and Sheet "B". You would probably be better off with the new ones although they themselves are rife with errors. The old plans are B-size drawings and the new ones are D or E... Regards, John -----Original Message----- >From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Jun 22, 2009 9:30 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 plans sheet count > > >Hello GN-1 builders, > >Could anyone tell me if the GN-1 plans have 17 sheets? I have located a GN-1 plans set for sale and the seller has 17 sheets and neither one of us knows if that makes it complete. The seller is not a builder and does not know anything about the plans except they seem to be in good condition. > >Thanks! >Ameet >Omaha, NE > > > > > ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Photos from Brussels
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Sure thing, Jack. I haven't been to Europe yet, but the first time I ever go and do any flying I'll let you know. Maybe I should point out that, as I wrote, the photos were taken in Brussels, Ontario. That's a small rural village in Canada. (I guess I'll stop "pulling your chain" now) Glad you liked the photos. I wish I could drive to Belgium for a fly-in. Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: GN-1 plans sheet count
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Ameet; Buy the plans. If the set is missing one or two pages, you can get them from one of us who has a complete set. However, it sounds like the right number (17 pages). Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC soon to be A75 powered San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net>
Date: Jun 23, 2009
jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com wrote: > Ameet, > > I believe those are the old plans; I have a set of them and there are Sheets 1-15 plus a Sheet "A" and Sheet "B". You would probably be better off with the new ones although they themselves are rife with errors. The old plans are B-size drawings and the new ones are D or E... > > Regards, > John > > -- Could someone tell me about the drawing sizes? I am not familiar with "B" size; "D" size and such. Thanks Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249647#249647 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=engineering+drawing+sizes ;) On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Will42 wrote: > > > jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com wrote: > > Ameet, > > > > I believe those are the old plans; I have a set of them and there are > Sheets 1-15 plus a Sheet "A" and Sheet "B". You would probably be better > off with the new ones although they themselves are rife with errors. The > old plans are B-size drawings and the new ones are D or E... > > > > Regards, > > John > > > > -- > > > Could someone tell me about the drawing sizes? I am not familiar with "B" > size; "D" size and such. Thanks > > Will > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249647#249647 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: rib plans question
Maybe the answer to this question is just too obvious, but I have to ask..Are the $20 rib plans enough to build the ribs? I was curious because with the Mustang II I am currently working on, often I consult several pages of the plans to see not only how something is built, but how that something plays along with other components to get the "full" picture. I am really interested in a light sport type plane, and love the nostalgic looks of the Pietenpol. I'm also considering the VP and Flybaby. The two seats of the Piet are appealing, and it seems to have a excellent safety record. So, I'm thinking, on those days I can't bring myself to brave the cold or heat and work on the Mustang, I could build ribs while watching the game inside the house?! Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
Drafing sheet sizes in inches : ANSI A--- 8.5 X 11 ANSI B--- 11 X 17 ANSI C--- 17 X 22 ANSI D--- 22 X 34 ANSI E--- 34 X 44 ARCHITECTURAL SIZES: A- 9 X 12 B- 12 X 18 C- 18 X 24 D- 24 X 36 E- 36 X 48 --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Will42 wrote: From: Will42 <will(at)cctc.net> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 6:02 AM jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com wrote: > Ameet, > > I believe those are the old plans; I have a set of them and there are She ets 1-15 plus a Sheet "A" and Sheet "B".- You would probably be better of f with the new ones although they themselves are rife with errors.- The o ld plans are B-size drawings and the new ones are D or E... > > Regards, > John > > -- Could someone tell me about the drawing sizes? I am not familiar with "B" s ize; "D" size and such. Thanks Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249647#249647 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
You can read all about the paper sizes at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size I believe the typical one used in engineering drawings are the ANSI sizes. Thanks everyone for their responses. It does makes sense to just buy the plans. Getting a page or two from someone would not violate any laws I am sure. Plus the price is right. ($25 including shipping) Thanks! Ameet --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Will42 wrote: > Could someone tell me about the drawing sizes? I am not > familiar with "B" size; "D" size and such. Thanks > > Will > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249647#249647 > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > FAQ, > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rib plans question
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Well, I suppose one COULD build the ribs from just the $20 full-size rib plan (although there aren't any dimensions or real notes on that drawing). A better question might be WHY? A set of Pietenpol ribs isn't much use without the rest of the plane. So, if you're planning to build the whole plane (eventually), buy the whole plan set. A full set of plans (long and short fuse, three piece wing, fullsize rib print) is only $200. Building the whole set of ribs can easily be done in a month or so, working at a pace of a couple of hours a day. But once they're built, your days of building while watching the game are over (unless you have a TV in the workshop). You'll need to move to a bigger workspace to continue with the project. my 2 cents Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: Re: rib plans question
I have a shop, but is occupied by the Mustang II project at the moment. I basically wanted to try my hand at building with wood without spending a grand to find out I am terrible with it. I have done the usual small wood projects, but don't have many wood working tools. Just the usual circular saw, jig saw, etc. No table saw, or band saw yet. So, I was hoping to buy just the rib plan, and later I can buy the rest if I follow through with the build. Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Guys: I guess those plans stopped being sold after John died... Are the plans available outside of finding a set on Ebay or such? Did the plans get sold to someone else to continue selling new sets? Also, were there a couple of versions of the GN? Or is the GN-1 the only model? I am curious as to the major differences between the designs, but I bet that has been discussed and I'll do a search for that forst... Mark On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Ameet Savant wrote: > > > You can read all about the paper sizes at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size > > I believe the typical one used in engineering drawings are the ANSI sizes. > > Thanks everyone for their responses. It does makes sense to just buy the > plans. Getting a page or two from someone would not violate any laws I am > sure. Plus the price is right. ($25 including shipping) > > Thanks! > Ameet > > --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Will42 wrote: > > Could someone tell me about the drawing sizes? I am not > > familiar with "B" size; "D" size and such. Thanks > > > > Will > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249647#249647 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Email Forum - > > FAQ, > > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - > > List Contribution Web Site - > > -Matt > > Dralle, List Admin. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Photos from Brussels
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Bill, I'm a little foggy when I read my email in the early AM, I will have to have a cup of coffee first! Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Photos from Brussels Sure thing, Jack. I haven't been to Europe yet, but the first time I ever go and do any flying I'll let you know. Maybe I should point out that, as I wrote, the photos were taken in Brussels, Ontario. That's a small rural village in Canada. (I guess I'll stop "pulling your chain" now) Glad you liked the photos. I wish I could drive to Belgium for a fly-in. Bill C. 05:54:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: LAMA award for Outstanding Individual
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Remember, it's not based on an essay. It's purely the numbers. All you need to include in your nomination is something to the effect of: ======================================================================= Dear Mr. Burke, I would like to nominate William Wynne of Orange Park, FL, for your LAMA Award for Outstanding Individual. His relentless work with and for homebuilders is unparalleled. Please see his website www.FlyCorvair.com Sincerely, Patrick Panzera Editor(at)ContactMagazine.com ======================================================================= ...and then fire it off to: lpburke5(at)comcast.net > Dear Aviation Enthusiast (via editor(at)contactmagazine.com): > > Some time ago in early Jun we asked for your nomination of some > individual in the field of light aviation that you think deserving of > the prestigious "LAMA Award for Outstanding Individual." > > We value your input very much, as the winner is the one who receives > the most nominations, and we want to make sure that we are getting a > representative cross-section of the USA and International light > aviation community. > > Each year at EAA AirVenture, the Light Aircraft Manufacturers > Association (LAMA) awards some individual this award. > The award is presented at show central the first day of AirVenture. > This will be our 18th year of presenting this award. > > Therefore, we ask you to please nominate someone you think deserving > of the award. > Previous winners of the award, no longer eligible, appear below. > > Thank you very much! > > Larry Burke, Chair Emeritus > Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association ________________________________________________________________________________
From: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: GN-1 plans sheet count
Date: Jun 23, 2009
hey guys, why don't ya'll just use bernard's plans. It looks like everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel. Gardiner -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Will42" <will(at)cctc.net> > > > > jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com wrote: > > Ameet, > > > I believe those are the old plans; I have a set of them and there are Sheets 1-15 plus a Sheet "A" and Sheet "B". You would probably be better off with the new ones although they themselves are rife with errors. The old plans are > B-size drawings and the new ones are D or E... > > > > Regards, > > John > > > > -- > > Could someone tell me about the drawing sizes? I am not familiar with "B" size; > "D" size and such. Thanks > > Will > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249647#249647 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: CAD drawings
My resource for CAD drawings of all hardware has dried up. Does anyone have a good set of CAD drawings for hardware they would be willing to share? Please get in contact with me off list to discuss. Thanks John **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rib plans question
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Boyce, Here's an idea: Get yourself a copy of the 1932 Flying and Glider reprints that EAA sells for about $7. There's certainly enough info there to construct a rib jig, and if you're good at interpreting old drawings that have been reduced in size, you can actually build the whole plane with the plans provided. It's also an interesting read, even if you don't build a plane. http://shop.eaa.org/html/publications_guides.html?cart_id <http://shop.eaa.org/html/publications_guides.html?cart_id> Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: Re: rib plans question
now that sounds like a good idea! Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Building with wood question
I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? A Table Saw A Bandsaw A Compound Miter Saw or something else? Rodney Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Depends on your wood: plank lumber you'll need to rip and miter Precut strips you need miter Curves and shapes scroll or band saw If you're any good at cutting straight then a plane ole hand saw will do the job Me I got a compound miter, table saw, scroll saw hand saw, coping saw, hole saw two saber saws, skill saw and still have trouble. But then I know my skill vs frustration level. And if frustration prevails there is always the trusty chain saw. Not one answer question as no one knows your skill level your wood choices, time table and level of frustration you can take. John ------Original Message------ From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: Jun 23, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building with wood question I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? A Table Saw A Bandsaw A Compound Miter Saw or something else? Rodney Hall Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
Unless you buy all your stock in ready to use sizes a good table saw would be my first choice. I was able to cut all my stock from larger stock. Fortunately I was able to borrow a planer to get the exact dimensions I needed. Cutting the stock to length isn't too hard with a miter box, but a miter saw (don't think you need a compound miter) I used all douglas fir bought locally. Ben Charvet Mims Fl r.r.hall(at)cox.net wrote: > > I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? > > A Table Saw > > A Bandsaw > > A Compound Miter Saw > > or something else? > > Rodney Hall > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 23, 2009
I am a new builder, but I am fortunate to have band, table, compound miter, and hand saws. I have used all so far in my project and I'm just working on the wings. I'm sure that I could get by with just one, but each have their advantages, of course. The compound miter is super duper. It does an equally nice job on 2x6 lumber down to 1/4" capstrip. Get a high tooth count blade and the cuts will be real clean. I also like the band saw... I use it a lot too, and I'm sure it will be great when it comes to metal fab. Another more experienced builder told me recently that the compound miter is the most useful in his opinion. By far the most useful power tool so far for me has been the combo belt/disk sander. It has been a great tool for precisely shaping wing rib parts and gussets. I could handle cutting a lot of parts by hand, but the sander does a real nice (quick) job where mass production of matched parts is concerned. In fact, I'm not sure how well I would have done without it. If you don't have one of these, or know where to get a used one, I would recommend the $109 Ryobi model at Home Depot. Just throwing that out there. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249743#249743 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Rodney, I also cut all of my stock from larger boards, so I found the table saw a necessity. But the other one I have which I use all of the time is a modest size band saw. It was especially useful for cutting all of the plywood for gussets. I got a planer blade for the table saw. I mean it is one of those with lots of carbide tips and leaves an extremely smooth cut. I did not find a planer necessary. I have a micrometer my partner loaned me, and found I could get the cuts surprisingly accurate with test cuts and adjustments. John Fay in Peoria On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > Unless you buy all your stock in ready to use sizes a good table saw would > be my first choice. I was able to cut all my stock from larger stock. > Fortunately I was able to borrow a planer to get the exact dimensions I > needed. Cutting the stock to length isn't too hard with a miter box, but a > miter saw (don't think you need a compound miter) I used all douglas fir > bought locally. > > Ben Charvet > Mims Fl > > > r.r.hall(at)cox.net wrote: > >> >> I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need >> is a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? >> >> A Table Saw >> >> A Bandsaw >> >> A Compound Miter Saw >> >> or something else? >> >> Rodney Hall >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: WACO fly-in
- Hello Guys, Just to let you Ohio area guys, Wynkoop airport is closed per N OTAM untill sunday for the wacos.- I flew over there tonight and would ha ve got in trouble had I not talked to Brian Wynkoop (Airport owner)-at ou r last EAA meeting.- The "Airboss" promply told me the airport was closed and if the feds were there I could get a citation/ violation.- All was s moothed out after I told him Brian said it was OK.- They had about 15 Wac os there already, and expect 70+ by friday.- I was also able to give a lo cal airport kid a ride.- He was brought there by his Grand dad to voulent eer-and help out with the fly-in.- As I was walking by, his Grand dad s aid "see if he will give you a ride for a few bucks for gas".- I heard th e kid say, "no, he probably has to go".- I turned around and said "get in I got time,- I was just like you once, except I never did get a ride unt ill I started taking flying lessons at 18".- The young man (12-14 yrs old ) had a blast, and promply thanked me after we landed and shook my hand.- I ho pe that seed grows, now that it is planted.- It is refreshing to see some kids are not punks, and are polite generous,respectful, and not sitting on there butts playing vidio games.- I hope to give a million more rides to kids like him, so our hobby, passion does not die with us.- By the way, if any of you want to go to the Waco fly-in this weekend, simply fly to Kno x County Airport, which is 3 miles south of Wynkoop, they are running shutt les all day on saturday, and if you are planning on going let me know, you might be able to fly in to OH71 and put your piet in my hanger and drive ov er with me.- - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: John Fay <jfay1950(at)gmail.com>
Rodney, The other power tool is use all the time is a sander. It has a 4 inch wide belt and a round disc. Very useful. To cut all of the ribstock I built two little jig/mitre boxes, with slots for all of the different lengths and angles needed. I used a little X-acto saw, like you normally use for models. Worked perfectly for cutting all of the truss pieces for the ribs. John Fay in Peoria On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 5:53 PM, wrote: > > I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is > a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? > > A Table Saw > > A Bandsaw > > A Compound Miter Saw > > or something else? > > Rodney Hall > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Jun 23, 2009
I've bought rough-sawn boards, and ripped all my own sticks. The tablesaw has always been the most often used, and most useful tool in my workshop. I would find it difficult to do most woodworking jobs without it. I consider it the heart of my workshop. A good thin-kerf ripping blade and a featherboard are all you really need to rip your own wood from rough-sawn lumber. A thickness planer is handy, but not necessary. I own a compound mitersaw, and have not used it yet on this project. My combination belt/disc sander is the second-most used tool in my shop (mostly the disc part). VERY handy for this project. A bandsaw would be a very useful tool to have (although I do not own one) particularly when it cones time to cut some metal parts. If you intend to buy your stock pre-dimensioned, as opposed to cutting from rough boards, you could probably get away with a regular hand saw and the disc sander for a LOT of the cutting. The 1/16" plywood gussets can be cut with shears, but the 1/8" gussets for the tail and fuselage will need to be sawn, and the ol' tablesaw will be your best friend once again. You can't cut up a sheet of plywood with a mitersaw. You could use a circular saw (yuck) or a handsaw (yuck again) or possibly the bandsaw, but the tablesaw is the way to go. I'm using a 35-year-old basic 9" tablesaw that was handed down to me from my father - you likely can pick up one for less than $200. There's no simple answer to your question. One tool is not going to do it all. But if I was to get a first tool, it would be a tablesaw. And you're likely going to get better value if you buy an older, used tablesaw than if you get a new, low-end saw. My general rule of thumb with tools is, if you get a tool for cheap, you get a cheap tool. Usually the only way to get a quality tool for a low price is by buying a used tool. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249754#249754 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Rodney, Right after you get the saw, the very next thing you need is a pneumatic hand-held belt sander with a 3/8" wide belt. I used mine about a million times at least. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 5:53 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building with wood question I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? A Table Saw A Bandsaw A Compound Miter Saw or something else? Rodney Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
In addition to what Bill Church said a Table Saw can be augmented by a lot of jigs and fixtures to do almost all of the jobs a miter saw does. It gets a little uncomfortable to cross cut long pieces but it can be done. Some of the jigs that come to mind are the crosscut sled, board cutting jig and a taper jig. Like Bill said, if you plan to rip and dimension your own stock buy a table saw. Just don't buy Black and Decker. Their slots on the table's surface are non standard. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but you have to make your own jigs as the commercial jigs are use 3/4" wide rails. Also remember, even if you buy your wood locally the suppliers usually do the milling for you for a small fee. If that is an option, the table saw would not be needed- but I can't imagine a wood workshop without one! :) Ameet Omaha, NE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying
It is refreshing to see >some kids are not punks, and are polite generous,respectful, and not >sitting on there butts playing vidio games. I hope to give a million >more rides to kids like him, so our hobby, passion does not die with >us Well said Shad-- I second everything you posted. At our EAA pancake breakfast/ Young Eagle event last Saturday I pulled the plane out and let kids sit in the pilot seat and move the controls around. One little girl absolutely was fascinated with her time in the seat and hands at the controls and didn't hardly want to get out--but I was in no hurry and told the mom there was no rush. You never know what that one experience might do to plant a lifetime of aviation in another's blood. I've heard about kids I gave rides to back in the 90's who are airline pilots now. THAT makes me feel good. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying
From: "899PM" <rockriverrifle(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
I flew the Cub into the Palmyra(88C) Fathers Day Fly-In. Every time I noticed kids and parents around the Cub I walked over and asked the parents if it were OK to allow the kids to sit in the plane. Just the look on the kids faces was enough for me. I explained the stick and associated control surfaces and had them move the stick while looking back. Eyes got big when they realized they were "flying". One small girl about 7 years old all but refused to get out. I know several of those kids thought about "flying" and planes the rest of the day. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249780#249780 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: Re: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying
Pieters, Want to pass on a bit of experience about Piet flying. Several years ago, shortly after NX41CC was flying, 2004, Isabelle and I drove to a fly-in at Marksville, La. My dependable test pilot and friend, Edwin Johnson, flew the plane down. About 130 miles and about 2 hrs flight time.While parked along the line Isabelle and I were in lawn chairs under the wing. Many people stopped, looked, questioned and commented. All complimentary. However there was a father and son about 10 yrs old who approached the plane and paid me the best of all compliments. The son asked the father, " what's this one Daddy?.Dad says casually, A lot of long hard work. Keep building Pieters, it will pay off in so many ways you haven't even thought about Corky and Isabelle in HOT Louisiana **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 24, 2009
All, Last year I made one of my first posts, after attending Brodhead where Bill Rewey Gave my 8 year old Nephew his first airplane ride. He has asked every month since the snow left, is this the month when we go to brodhead, the second question is Do I think Bill will be there, third question, do you think I can get another ride. Brandon's Parents are divorced and his older brother is 8 years his senior. He's my Buddy and miniature shadow, Bill and the rest of you planted a seed last year, and I cant' thank you enough. See you all in Brodhead. Jake ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in
You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and BETTER! Steve D. ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 22:26 Subject: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in > > Hello Guys, Just to let you Ohio area guys, Wynkoop airport is > closed per NOTAM untill sunday for the wacos. I flew over there > tonight and would have got in trouble had I not talked to Brian > Wynkoop (Airport owner)at our last EAA meeting. The "Airboss" > promply told me the airport was closed and if the feds were there > I could get a citation/ violation. All was smoothed out after I > told him Brian said it was OK. They had about 15 Wacos there > already, and expect 70+ by friday. I was also able to give a > local airport kid a ride. He was brought there by his Grand dad > to voulenteerand help out with the fly-in. As I was walking by, > his Grand dad said "see if he will give you a ride for a few bucks > for gas". I heard the kid say, "no, he probably has to go". I > turned around and said "get in I got time, I was just like you > once, except I never did get a ride untill I started taking flying > lessons at 18". The young man (12-14 yrs old) had > a blast, and promply thanked me after we landed and shook my > hand. I hope that seed grows, now that it is planted. It is > refreshing to see some kids are not punks, and are polite > generous,respectful, and not sitting on there butts playing vidio > games. I hope to give a million more rides to kids like him, so > our hobby, passion does not die with us. By the way, if any of > you want to go to the Waco fly-in this weekend, simply fly to Knox > County Airport, which is 3 miles south of Wynkoop, they are > running shuttles all day on saturday, and if you are planning on > going let me know, you might be able to fly in to OH71 and put > your piet in my hanger and drive over with me. > > Shad > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in
We'll see about that BIGGER and BETTER stuff tonight. Corky in Louisiana, an ole Tiger **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Building with wood question
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Rodney, It looks like you got tons of replies. I know of some who cut all their metal parts with hack-saw, but a metal blade on a band saw sure makes it easier. My list would include: Table saw, band saw, bench sander, drill press. That seems like a lot of expense, but here's how you pay for it: As others have said, buy 'planks' of an alternative wood like fir, pine or poplar. The standard 'kit' of A/C Spruce is about $1,000, and that does not include the ribs. With just a little shopping you could spend $300-500 on an alternative wood and purchase all the tools with the savings! Good luck & happy building, Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of r.r.hall(at)cox.net Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building with wood question I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one? A Table Saw A Bandsaw A Compound Miter Saw or something else? Rodney Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
If it makes you feel any better Rodney... the wood kit from AS&S is running $1225 right now, and that does not include all the capstrip for the wing ribs or any plywood. I've spent ~$2000 on wood so far (about 25% of that being plywood), which should be just about all the wood I need, but you can certainly reduce that expense by ripping your own parts, which like Gary said, it may help you justify the expense of a couple more tools. Oh, and his mention of a drill press... another good one. I'm not sure where you are located, but keep you eye on Craigslist. Other than the prostitution rings, there are some good areas on that site where you can often find reasonable deals locally. I purchased most of my gas welding rig on there for a reasonable amount. It is used equipment, but it works great. Check it out. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249820#249820 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: rib plans question
Rampey, be advised that on the Don Pietenpol plans (I think) and certainly on the Flying and Glider plans there is a dip in one of the coordinate points on the top surface. If you try to french curve across the data points of the plan, you will find the one point that is low by 1/8 of an inch, as I recall. Experts, please correct if I am off on this. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com >Sent: Jun 23, 2009 4:11 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib plans question > >now that sounds like a good idea! Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I thin k, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again.- Just a friendly jab to a ll the Texans.- At least they named the T-6 after you. - Shad - P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I t hink Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM ven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco , Texas for a fly-in. Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and BETTER! Steve D. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Rodney, I second the motion on looking on Craigslist. Table saws and miter saws are a dime a dozen and just as cheap. Bandsaws are more rare and a bit more expensive, but cost a whole lot less than buying new. A lot of those old tools still have life left in them. I bought a 10" compound miter saw for $35 and a 1950's era Delta bandsaw for $90. The Delta needed a good cleanup but works just marvelous. And yes I can get bandsaw blades for it. You just have to be patient and wait for the right deals to come along. As far as those other "services" offered on Craigslist, I would have to defer to those out there who have more experience with such things........... Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249832#249832 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Wait a minute... I'm not sure if that was directed at me or not, but allow me to clarify... I have no experience with the other "services" offered on Craigslist, it's just that every time you hear about the site on the news they are being threatened with lawsuits and such over illegal activities. Oh, I also have a scroll saw. A great tool when you need one, but I wouldn't place it in the same group with the ones we've been discussing. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249835#249835 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: Re: rib plans question
Thanks Tim, I have read about that dip before on the list. I don't think it presents a huge problem. Others have said just "connect the dots" for a smooth transition. Seems easy enough... Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
The only problem with craigslist is yes items may be stolen, but the same c an be said for yard sales, flea markets etc.- You can surely find second hand tools for far cheaper than new tools, and they will probably do just a s good.- Just my 2 cents on tools "required" or rather perfered: A good t able saw, a small drill press, and a small band saw.- The combo belt disk sanders are nice, but you can get a 10in sanding disk for the table saw. - Happy Building Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
Date: Jun 24, 2009
The "Piet" project was the perfect excuse to stock up my shop on power tools such as....... Table saw, band saw, miter saw, 12" disc sander, jointer, planer, gas torch set, sand blaster, new tool boxes, router with table, 16ft work bench, engine stand, engine hoist, drill press.....and when the wife asked where the tools came from I said... "what these old tools I've had these forever. " ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
Date: Jun 24, 2009
I agree with Bill. The tools you will use the most are (in order): Table Saw Belt Sander Band Saw Metal Cuting Band Saw (I bought the cheap $200 Grizzly metal cutting bandsaw and it worked great for all the steel parts you'll have to cut) Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building with wood question I've bought rough-sawn boards, and ripped all my own sticks. The tablesaw has always been the most often used, and most useful tool in my workshop. I would find it difficult to do most woodworking jobs without it. I consider it the heart of my workshop. A good thin-kerf ripping blade and a featherboard are all you really need to rip your own wood from rough-sawn lumber. A thickness planer is handy, but not necessary. I own a compound mitersaw, and have not used it yet on this project. My combination belt/disc sander is the second-most used tool in my shop (mostly the disc part). VERY handy for this project. A bandsaw would be a very useful tool to have (although I do not own one) particularly when it cones time to cut some metal parts. If you intend to buy your stock pre-dimensioned, as opposed to cutting from rough boards, you could probably get away with a regular hand saw and the disc sander for a LOT of the cutting. The 1/16" plywood gussets can be cut with shears, but the 1/8" gussets for the tail and fuselage will need to be sawn, and the ol' tablesaw will be your best friend once again. You can't cut up a sheet of plywood with a mitersaw. You could use a circular saw (yuck) or a handsaw (yuck again) or possibly the bandsaw, but the tablesaw is the way to go. I'm using a 35-year-old basic 9" tablesaw that was handed down to me from my father - you likely can pick up one for less than $200. There's no simple answer to your question. One tool is not going to do it all. But if I was to get a first tool, it would be a tablesaw. And you're likely going to get better value if you buy an older, used tablesaw than if you get a new, low-end saw. My general rule of thumb with tools is, if you get a tool for cheap, you get a cheap tool. Usually the only way to get a quality tool for a low price is by buying a used tool. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249754#249754 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: WACO fly-in Ohio
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Of course, where did those Ohio boys have to go to fly in 1903? NORTH CAROLINA, so we proudly carry the slogan "First in Flight" on our license plates. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans. At least they named the T-6 after you. Shad P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> > You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and BETTER! Steve D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: WACO fly-in
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Jake, I'll be happy to give your nephew a ride in my Piet at Brodhead, as long as that 8 year old doesn't weigh over 170 lbs. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in All, Last year I made one of my first posts, after attending Brodhead where Bill Rewey Gave my 8 year old Nephew his first airplane ride. He has asked every month since the snow left, is this the month when we go to brodhead, the second question is Do I think Bill will be there, third question, do you think I can get another ride. Brandon's Parents are divorced and his older brother is 8 years his senior. He's my Buddy and miniature shadow, Bill and the rest of you planted a seed last year, and I cant' thank you enough. See you all in Brodhead. Jake ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ?
And not to leave out the first 100th year anniversary of flight in Canada E AA is having some special doings at Oshkosh to celebrate that event that took place in 1 909. Bill Church is our resident Pietenpol poster boy and I think Harvey Rule too. Were yo u there for that first flight Harve ? http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-02-23_canada.asp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be b ig enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again .=0A________________________________=0AFrom: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.c om>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:0 5:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio=0A=0A=0AWhere were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again.- Just a friendly jab to all the Texa ns.- At least they named the T-6 after you.=0A=0AShad=0A=0AP.S. Don't tak e this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.=0A=0A--- On Wed, 6/24 /09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:=0A =0A=0AFrom: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>=0A Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com =0ADate: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List mess age posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" =0A=0AYou got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. =0A=0APlease be more accurate with your Subje ct!!! ;-P=0A=0ATexas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B ======================== _ ======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: WACO fly-in
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Jack, Thanks a million. I will let Brandon know. he's so skinny he has to stand twice to make a shadow. Jake "Jack Phillips" Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com 06/24/2009 02:04 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com To cc Subject RE: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Jake, I?ll be happy to give your nephew a ride in my Piet at Brodhead, as long as that 8 year old doesn?t weigh over 170 lbs. Jack Phillips NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in All, Last year I made one of my first posts, after attending Brodhead where Bill Rewey Gave my 8 year old Nephew his first airplane ride. He has asked every month since the snow left, is this the month when we go to brodhead, the second question is Do I think Bill will be there, third question, do you think I can get another ride. Brandon's Parents are divorced and his older brother is 8 years his senior. He's my Buddy and miniature shadow, Bill and the rest of you planted a seed last year, and I cant' thank you enough. See you all in Brodhead. Jake http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ?
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Actually because of the exchange rate it is only the 86.4 year anniversary of flight in Canada. I'm here all week folks. Try the veal and don't forget to tip your waiter. "Is that all you plan to do for the rest of your life? Just cash for rides?" Do not archve. John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Jun 24, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > And not to leave out the first 100th year anniversary of flight in > Canada EAA is having > some special doings at Oshkosh to celebrate that event that took > place in 1909. Bill Church is > our resident Pietenpol poster boy and I think Harvey Rule too. > Were you there for that first > flight Harve ? > > http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-02-23_canada.asp > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ?
There are days when-I feel like I was there for the first flight!Geeeeze I 've been bumped up to poster boy!Wow,thanks a lot !!!!!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___ _____________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aero space Corporation]" =0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronic s.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:22 :04 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ?=0A =0A=0AAnd not to leave out the first 100th year anniversary of flight in Ca nada EAA is having=0Asome special doings at Oshkosh to celebrate that event that took place in 1909. ---Bill Church is=0Aour resident Pietenpol poster boy and I think Harvey Rule too.----- Were you there for t hat first=0Aflight Harve ? =0A-=0Ahttp://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-02-23 ======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in. Rodney ---- H RULE wrote: > You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again. ________________________________ From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans. At least they named the T-6 after you. Shad P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state. --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B======================== _====================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak ones! "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!" Davy Crockett Blue Skies, Steve D. ----- Original Message ----- From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 15:31 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio > > Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in. > > Rodney > ---- H RULE < wrote: > > You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again. > ________________________________ > From: shad bell < > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio > > > Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans. At least they named the T-6 after you. > > Shad > > P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state. > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote: > > > From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM > > > > You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. > > Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P > > Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B======================== _====================== > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
Thank you for the suggestions. I do already have a drill press, jigsaw, drill, and a few other tools. From what you are saying it could pay for itself in cost savings over buying pre cut wood. Rodney ---- K5YAC wrote: > > If it makes you feel any better Rodney... the wood kit from AS&S is running $1225 right now, and that does not include all the capstrip for the wing ribs or any plywood. I've spent ~$2000 on wood so far (about 25% of that being plywood), which should be just about all the wood I need, but you can certainly reduce that expense by ripping your own parts, which like Gary said, it may help you justify the expense of a couple more tools. Oh, and his mention of a drill press... another good one. > > I'm not sure where you are located, but keep you eye on Craigslist. Other than the prostitution rings, there are some good areas on that site where you can often find reasonable deals locally. I purchased most of my gas welding rig on there for a reasonable amount. It is used equipment, but it works great. Check it out. > > -------- > Mark - working on wings > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249820#249820 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marshall Lumsden <mlumsden(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Wasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft? In my day, class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L. On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > NGB" > > Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak > ones! > > "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!" > Davy Crockett > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 15:31 > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > >> >> Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in. >> >> Rodney >> ---- H RULE < wrote: >>> You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still >>> wouldn't be big enough.Drop it into one of our territories and >>> you'd never find it again. >> ________________________________ >> From: shad bell < >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio >> >> >> Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about >> 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio >> again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans. At least they >> named the T-6 after you. >> >> Shad >> >> P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., >> Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any >> other state. >> >> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote: >> >> >> From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM >> >> >> NGB" < >> >> You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to >> go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. >> >> Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P >> >> Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and >> B======================== _====================== >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
Get em Steve... their jealousy makes them sound a bit like whiners. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249873#249873 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
At least Davy Crockett knew the equivalent place to Texas. :-P ---- "Dortch wrote: > > Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak ones! > > "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!" > Davy Crockett > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 15:31 > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > > Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in. > > > > Rodney > > ---- H RULE < wrote: > > > You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again. > > ________________________________ > > From: shad bell < > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio > > > > > > Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans. At least they named the T-6 after you. > > > > Shad > > > > P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state. > > > > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote: > > > > > > From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in > > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM > > > > > > > > You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. > > > > Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P > > > > Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B======================== _====================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Jun 24, 2009
I haven't actually gone that route (buying lumber and ripping to size), but from what I understand (and the answer to your question), those that have done this have realized a significant savings, which could be applied to other necessities. I just wanted to post my expense, which is recent, so that you would have an accurate comparison. Perhaps someone who ripped their own capstrip and such could post the cost for their wood, which would give a reasonable estimate on the kind of savings you might realize by doing the same. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249880#249880 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Well, it's been a few years since I bought my rough-sawn boards (2 x 6 Sitka Spruce), so my memory might be a little foggy, but I believe I paid less than $150 for enough spruce to build all of my ribs and ALMOST the entire empennage (add one eighth of one Aircraft Spruce "Bargain Bag of Spruce" to cover the shortage $5). I believe a 4' x 4' sheet of 1/16" Finnish Birch ply for the rib gussets was $50. And I got my two 4' x 8' sheets of 1/8" Okoume marine plywood for the tail gussets, fuse sides and gussets, and one 4' x 8' sheet of 1/4" Okoume Marine plywood from Noah's Marine for about $150 (no shipping charges because they are local for me - shipping costs for plywood would be SIGNIFICANT). I would say I definitely have less than $200 invested in materials for my ribs (Sitka, ply and glue). Aircraft Spruce's current price for 1/4" x 1/2" capstrip is 0.32 per foot, and you'll need about 100 six-foot lengths = $192 (plus shipping) just for the capstrips. There's a savings there, but it isn't huge. And I did have to spend several hours ripping all of that wood. Bill "posterboy" C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: Mike Volckmann <mike_cfi(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
No, Texan was the WW II-US name for the aircraft.- The British, Canadia ns and rest of the Commonwealth called it the Harvard.=0A-Mike Volckmann =0A=0A=0AGod is great, Beer is good, People are Crazy. Billy Currington =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Marshall Lumsden <mlum sden(at)charter.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Jun e 24, 2009 1:44:53 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio=0A=0A t>=0A=0AWasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft?- In my day, class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L.=0AOn Ju n 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:=0A=0A> --> Pi etenpol-List message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" =0A> =0A> Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak ones!=0A> =0A> "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!"=0A> Davy Crockett=0A> =0A> Blue Skies,=0A> Steve D.=0A> =0A> ----- Original Message -----=0A> From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net=0A> Date: Wed nesday, June 24, 2009 15:31=0A> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Oh io=0A> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A> =0A> =0A>> --> Pietenpol-List m essage posted by: <=0A>> =0A>> Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in.=0A>> =0A>> Rodney=0A>> ---- H RULE < wrote:=0A>>> You drop Texas into m y province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big enough.Drop it int o one of our territories and you'd never find it again.=0A>> ______________ __________________=0A>> From: shad bell <=0A>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics .com=0A>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM=0A>> Subject: Re: Piete npol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Where were those FIRST 2 aviat ors from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moo n yep Ohio again.- Just a friendly jab to all the Texans.- At least the y named the T-6 after you.=0A>> =0A>> Shad=0A>> =0A>> P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Me dal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.=0A>> =0A>> --- On Wed, 6/24/ 09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote:=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <=0A>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in=0A>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:1 D MAJ NG NG NGB" <=0A>> =0A>> You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in.=0A>> =0A>> Please be m ore accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P=0A>> =0A>> Texas is a lot like the st ate you live in. Only BIGGER and B============= ===========- _============ ============0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A> =0A> ======================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: WACO fly-in Ohio
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Actually, I believe the real story is that North American designed the plane in 1937, in response to a USAAF competition for a new basic trainer, and the winning prototype was named the NA-26, and it went into production as the BC-1. The Royal Air Force ordered many, and named it the Harvard. In 1940, the USAAF renamed it the AT-6 (advanced trainer), and it was in high demand. In 1942 North American needed to build a new plant to handle the production, so they built a new factory in Dallas, and from then on the AT-6 was known as the Texan. So, the British (and Canadians) called it the Harvard, the Americans called it the Texan (or AT-6), and the Australians, for some reason, called it the Wirraway. None of this, by the way, has ANYTHING to do with Pietenpols. Bill C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marshall Lumsden Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio --> Wasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft? In my day, class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L. On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marshall Lumsden <mlumsden(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: WACO fly-in Ohio
Date: Jun 24, 2009
good history. so much for my OF memory. thanks. Marshall L. On Jun 24, 2009, at 3:00 PM, Bill Church wrote: > > > Actually, I believe the real story is that North American designed the > plane in 1937, in response to a USAAF competition for a new basic > trainer, and the winning prototype was named the NA-26, and it went > into production as the BC-1. The Royal Air Force ordered many, and > named > it the Harvard. In 1940, the USAAF renamed it the AT-6 (advanced > trainer), and it was in high demand. In 1942 North American needed to > build a new plant to handle the production, so they built a new > factory > in Dallas, and from then on the AT-6 was known as the Texan. So, the > British (and Canadians) called it the Harvard, the Americans called it > the Texan (or AT-6), and the Australians, for some reason, called > it the > Wirraway. > None of this, by the way, has ANYTHING to do with Pietenpols. > > Bill C. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Marshall > Lumsden > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:45 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio > > --> > > Wasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft? In my day, > class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L. > On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Famous aviators origin
Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Don't forget that Octave Chanute?was from ILLINOIS, and that HE gave the Wright bros. a lot of advise. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ?
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 24, 2009
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Date: Jun 24, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Building with wood question
My thoughts: - If you are looking at buying tools to build only the plane AND you plan on buying the pre-dimensioned wood from a place like Aircraft Spruce, you may get away with out a tables saw.- If you go that route, you won't need it for the ribs or wings anyway which will give you time to save money and sti ll be building. - I personally believe the compound miter saw is the most important tool. I h ave used that tool the most and have made all my cross cuts with it. (a sli ding compound is what I have) I have also made many, many compound cuts wit h it and I don't know of a better tool to do so. - A drill press is next. You want your holes to be perpendicular AND straight and the drill press will do it. You will need to layout your holes and dri


June 15, 2009 - June 24, 2009

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