Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ie
August 27, 2009 - September 04, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Oh crap.
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Aug 27, 2009 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
hey guys, good news! I start my assertive training classes next month, I
can wait its a personal development thing I been needing to work on for
many years and struggled to break out of shell, no more Mr..Shy Mr.
Doormat reserved any more. I am gonna start letting people what I really
think I am gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at |
Oshkosh
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
I've had problems with AS&S before, items they said were in stock but were then
back ordered and so on, so have used Wicks for a long time. I decided to give
AS&S another try a few months ago on a wood order, most of it came OK, I'm
sure it meets the mil spec, but it isn't as nice as the stuff from Wicks, and
one piece was missing. I called numerous times and kept getting "we'll take care
of it", and finally after six weeks the missing piece showed up, and it looked
like they bought it at Lowe's, although it might have 6 rings per inch.
Back to Wicks for wood, although AS&S sometimes does have good prices on hardware
and etc. Wicks is definitely better for quality and customer service.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260071#260071
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
The telephone company are the ones that invented Nicopress fittings. As far as
I know there is no difference between a telephone company Nicopress tool and
an "aircraft" Nicopress tool for the same wire diameter.
Rodney
---- Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Phone number: **717-432-4589
>
>> > PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
> > telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
> > I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale
> > soon ! (sorry....it's true)
> > There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the
> > nicopress world and I forget
> > what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
> > only size nico sleeves I used
> > on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
> >
> > Mike C
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
| From: | joe motis <joemotis(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Mike,
What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is the
same either way, telephone or aircraft.
Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4
bays on it labeled G,C,M,P
Thanks
Joe Motis
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
> I bought most of my AN hardware, cables, sheet, tube, and streamlined
> tubing, turnbuckles
> from Dillsburg. If you call them they'll mail you a catalog.
>
> I used the Wicks and ACS catalogs to figure out what I would need to order
> and then would
> just call Dillsburg and they take your order over the phone and ship it
> ground UPS that day.
> You get the bill and pay them via check after your stuff arrives-- old
> fashioned outfit but
> it must work for them.
>
> You have to really know what you want and what you're talking about to
> order from Dillsburg
> as the people there can take a list of 25 different items and quantities in
> about 2 minutes--zip,
> zip, you read off what you want and they box it, ship it and get it out to
> you.
>
> Some days I would call at lunchtime for hardware and it would be on my
> porch the NEXT day. (but
> Ohio is right next to PA (home of John Recine) so it didn't take long at
> all but they mean
> business when they take and order and they ship FAST.
>
> Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
> 114 Sawmill Rd
> Dillsburg, PA 17
>
> They do not have a web site nor do I believe that they take credit cards.
>
> PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
> telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
> I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale
> soon ! (sorry....it's true)
> There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the
> nicopress world and I forget
> what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
> only size nico sleeves I used
> on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
>
> Mike C
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Progress Report |
Steve=2C
I be interested in it
Emal: chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com
Doug Dever
Date: Thu=2C 27 Aug 2009 16:04:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report
From: steven244sadler(at)gmail.com
I built a very strong=2C accurate (within 1/32" everywhere) and fairly ligh
tweight table using pallet rack hardware. Total cost about $300. The defini
tion of "fairly lightweight" being that my son and I could pick up and move
around a 4ft x 20ft table=2C although we never carried it very far. I have
a pdf file showing the construction technique if anyone is interested. It
is about 3 Mbytes so I don't want to clutter the list by posting it. Howeve
r=2C here is a picture of the completed table. The whole concept is scalabl
e up and down=2C so a smaller or larger table can easily be constructed.
Steve Sadler
On Tue=2C Aug 25=2C 2009 at 7:27 PM=2C Lagowski Morrow
wrote:
>
I built my wings on a table consisting of two used hollow panel doors whic
h were joined by stringers on each side to make one long table on saw horse
s. Worked just fine. The doors cost me $20 total from
a building mat'l reuse place. The spars were set up on 2 by 4's and the rib
s slid on.--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday=2C August 25=2C 2009 9:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report
Having never done this before (full scale) I just took a page out of Tony B
engelis' construction manuals (and some R/C experience) and built a vertica
l jig. I never really considered building them on a table top. I did buil
d a few R/C wings back in the 80s on a table top=2C but I've used an elevat
ed wing jig on those too since the early 90s. To answer you question Gary.
.. yes=2C I slid my ribs into place while the spars were supported by the j
ig. I hope this method works out ok. The only thing I am concerned about
is that the jig supports are 8' apart (the width of my workbench)=2C so I m
ay encounter some sagging in the middle (?) not sure. I'll take some measur
ements tonight to see if an extra support might be required.
Anyone have any suggestions concerning this method?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259457#259457
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Suggested product |
Mike,
I got REALLY lucky on the wheels! A co-worker introduced me to one of our
customers at "Paughco" (www.paughco.com). As you can see from their site,
they specialize in custom building motorcycles, worldwide. I was in a very
good position to give their "Wheel Guru" some help and advice on a
construction application, which turned out to be profitable for him. In
return, he sold me 21" Harley Sportster wheels at cost - $368! With 1"
bearings!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
Forget the Corvair (they almost always look good) and your sweet firewall; I
want to know more about those spectacular wheels.
Mike Hardaway
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
John,
Are you looking for something other than galvanized or stainless? Here's my
galvanized.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
Any suggestions on sources and material to be used as fire protection layer
between firewall and bulkhead?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
That's good to hear, John..
Now go take out the trash like the Mrs. told you!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
hey guys, good news! I start my assertive training classes next month, I can
wait its a personal development thing I been needing to work on for many
years and struggled to break out of shell, no more Mr..Shy Mr. Doormat
reserved any more. I am gonna start letting people what I really think I am
gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
John
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building |
A at Oshkosh
I totally agree with Andrew regarding the wood quality from Wicks. Everything
I ordered wood-wise from Wicks was of SUPERIOR quality--- just PERFECTION as
far as sitka spruce goes
and it always came packed in pine crating that was super durable and packed so
that no damage ever occured to any piece that was ever shipped to me.
Cheap-- no but then wood for a Pietenpol isn't really a huge portion of your costs----overhauling
an engine, buying a prop, having your carb and mags overhauled,
buying instruments and AN Hardware and covering and paint materials---there's where
your costs are in my opinion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
It's the only good thing I learned during my journey thru the Dark Side (
metal airplanes...)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
Hmmm, I need a better look... can I borrow that for a minute? 8)
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260025#260025
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | nicopress sleeve sizes |
Hi Mike,
What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is the same
either way, telephone or aircraft.
Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4 bays on
it labeled G,C,M,P
Thanks
Joe Motis
Joe--you're' EXACTLY right about the telephone nico tools vs. a/c ones-- they are
THE SAME ! In fact mine was made
right here in Cleveland (tho I ordered it thru Wicks) and has cast in it "Cleveland
Telegraph Company" or similar. I guess
what I meant is that some of the ones you see on ebay and the like only have one
'bay' or spot or maybe two bays for
two different size nicopress sleeves but the good ones have FOUR slots/bays for
the various sizes of nicopress ovals out there
and that's probably the best bet for an aircraft builder since it covers the gamut
of various cable sizes you might need to work on.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
Just ordered my Piet plans. I didn't order the full size rib layout becaus
e I've heard a few people say that it is not quite correct due to the anoma
lies of copiers. Do the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib template fr
om?
Doug Dever
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
True, you don't need the full size rib plan.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Doug Dever wr
ote:
> Just ordered my Piet plans. I didn't order the full size rib layout
> because I've heard a few people say that it is not quite correct due to t
he
> anomalies of copiers. Do the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib
> template from?
>
> Doug Dever
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it
> now.<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
The days of open hard wire with insulators in communications are gone and
there nico press tools
are up for grabs. Now it's fiber optics and scotch lock tools.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:36 PM, joe motis wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is
> the same either way, telephone or aircraft.
> Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4
> bays on it labeled G,C,M,P
> Thanks
>
> Joe Motis
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
> Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
>
>> Aerospace Corporation]"
>>
>> I bought most of my AN hardware, cables, sheet, tube, and streamlined
>> tubing, turnbuckles
>> from Dillsburg. If you call them they'll mail you a catalog.
>>
>> I used the Wicks and ACS catalogs to figure out what I would need to order
>> and then would
>> just call Dillsburg and they take your order over the phone and ship it
>> ground UPS that day.
>> You get the bill and pay them via check after your stuff arrives-- old
>> fashioned outfit but
>> it must work for them.
>>
>> You have to really know what you want and what you're talking about to
>> order from Dillsburg
>> as the people there can take a list of 25 different items and quantities
>> in about 2 minutes--zip,
>> zip, you read off what you want and they box it, ship it and get it out to
>> you.
>>
>> Some days I would call at lunchtime for hardware and it would be on my
>> porch the NEXT day. (but
>> Ohio is right next to PA (home of John Recine) so it didn't take long at
>> all but they mean
>> business when they take and order and they ship FAST.
>>
>> Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
>> 114 Sawmill Rd
>> Dillsburg, PA 17
>>
>> They do not have a web site nor do I believe that they take credit cards.
>>
>> PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
>> telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
>> I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for
>> sale soon ! (sorry....it's true)
>> There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in
>> the nicopress world and I forget
>> what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
>> only size nico sleeves I used
>> on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's
>> it.
>>
>> Mike C
>>
>>
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Well I'm no expert but I'm not going to use okume on the gussets, I'm using
birch, 1/8 that is, much stronger,
then I will use Okume on the sides. Very little birch and twice the strength
and resistance to tear and shear than Okume.
Again I have no data to offer you this is just my preference. Also I'm going
to nail and glue at these points
then coat with epoxy, not epoxy varnish but plain old Raka epoxy marine
glue.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Michael Perez wrote:
> That's right Bill, I'll be getting 2- 4X8 sheets of 1/8" and one of the
> 1/4". That gives me one full sheet of 1/8" and the cut off from the other
> 1/8" for the other various plywood parts. Same with the 1/4".
>
> Looks like I can get the Okoume stuff from Boulter for cheap...cut and
> shipped.
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Church * wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 12:14 PM
>
> The plans do not call for a specific type of plywood to be used. Probably
> whatever the norm was back in 1934. I would assume that the glues used today
> are superior to those of 75 years ago.
> I'm planning to use Marine Okoume throughout my fuselage. I haven't done a
> proper material layout, but I think it would be a very tight squeeze to
> get ALL of the 1/8" ply parts out of a single 4' x 8' sheet (fuse sides,
> fuse and tail gussets, seat bottoms, seat backs, firewall, turtledeck
> formers, instrument panels, etc. etc.), so I bought two sheets, which added
> a whopping $40 or so to my material costs. But, in the long run, I'm sure it
> will have saved me money, since we all end up making a few "extra" parts,
> and on the day that I realize that I need a few more square feet of 1/8"
> plywood, I won't have to go buy another sheet. Just something to keep in
> mind -- especially if you're having plywood shipped.
>
> Bill C.
>
> **
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
| From: | "BYD" <byd(at)att.net> |
This may not be the best, but Ill include my favorite. Its simply three, one foot
pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These are joined by
a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While youre in the hardware store
buying the chain (theyll cut it for you) purchase nine of the largest nails they
have (check to assure theyll pass through the links). To get fancy, pick
up a fence hammer which also works like pliers to extract the nails. Add three
pieces of good rope (also from the hardware store) and place it all in a bag.
See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too much time in the hardware store!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260115#260115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tie_down_kit_202.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
Good idea, BYD. Log home spikes would work well.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
This may not be the best, but Ill include my favorite. Its simply three, one foot
pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These are joined by
a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While youre in the hardware store
buying the chain (theyll cut it for you) purchase nine of the largest nails they
have (check to assure theyll pass through the links). To get fancy, pick
up a fence hammer which also works like pliers to extract the nails. Add three
pieces of good rope (also from the hardware store) and place it all in a bag.
See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too much time in the hardware store!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260115#260115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tie_down_kit_202.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: nicopress sleeve sizes |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I worked on what is called open wire for several years in the 1971 to 1980,
it was outdated
then, the wire that used I think been a while c & d were two different
sizes open wire
one was .109 galvanized steel and the other an .080 copper coated steel,
I also had wire called c-wire that was a temporary fix for lack of
facility's when
you run out of cable, There is one thing I know for sure an old line man
told me you can pull this wire till it breaks with a splice and sleeve in
the wire
it will never fail in the sleeve, he was correct I fixed thousands of breaks
but never
saw a failure in a sleeve. There was another wire called c-wire that I
didn't have sleeves
for so I used a larger size and crimped it out of spec, it also never failed
even though
it had the wrong sleeve however I wouldn't try that on an airplane.
There was also a wire sect ionized for rail road crossing it was larger just
for
this and it was .134 then there was some aluminum wire I don't remember the
size.
russell ray
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is
> the same either way, telephone or aircraft.
> Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4
> bays on it labeled G,C,M,P
> Thanks
>
> Joe Motis
>
>
> Joe--you're' EXACTLY right about the telephone nico tools vs. a/c ones--
> they are THE SAME ! In fact mine was made
> right here in Cleveland (tho I ordered it thru Wicks) and has cast in it
> "Cleveland Telegraph Company" or similar. I guess
> what I meant is that some of the ones you see on ebay and the like only
> have one 'bay' or spot or maybe two bays for
> two different size nicopress sleeves but the good ones have FOUR slots/bays
> for the various sizes of nicopress ovals out there
> and that's probably the best bet for an aircraft builder since it covers
> the gamut of various cable sizes you might need to work on.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Yes, the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib template from.
What the plans do not have are:
1) dimensions for the locations of the cross-members,
2) dimensions for the sizes of the gussets, and
3) the vertical cross-members adjacent to the spars.
Now, the full-size rib drawing doesn't have any dimensions either, but
if you have the full-size print, you can measure them.
But neither of the missing dimensions are critical - you can scale the
drawing that comes with the plan set.
And the vertical cross-members adjacent to the spars must have been
something that BHP incorporated after the plans were drawn in 1933 or
1934. The locations are pretty simple really, the front one sits
directly behind the front spar, and the rear one site directly in front
of the rear spar. If that's not clear, take a look at various builder's
construction photos on mykitplane.com or at westcoastpiet.com.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
Robert=2C
Have you looked into System Three clear coat epoxy? I put cedar tongue and
groove siding on the front of my house and coated every piece with the stu
ff thinned 30% by volume of laquer thinner. Wood just sucked it up and fiv
e years later the wood looks like the day I put it up. On a house you need
a UV barrier though. I used System Three clear urethane. You wouldn't ne
ed it on an airplane though.
Beware of urethanes that are not 2 part. To be a true urethane with all th
e benfits it needs to be catalyzed or cross linked.
I don't profess to ba a Piet authority=2C but I do know a little about coat
ings. Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that.
Doug Dever
Date: Thu=2C 27 Aug 2009 22:14:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
From: rray032003(at)gmail.com
Well I'm no expert but I'm not going to use okume on the gussets=2C I'm usi
ng birch=2C 1/8 that is=2C much stronger=2C
then I will use Okume on the sides. Very little birch and twice the strengt
h and resistance to tear and shear than Okume.
Again I have no data to offer you this is just my preference. Also I'm goin
g to nail and glue at these points
then coat with epoxy=2C not epoxy varnish but plain old Raka epoxy marine g
lue.
On Thu=2C Aug 27=2C 2009 at 2:23 PM=2C Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.
net> wrote:
That's right Bill=2C I'll be getting 2- 4X8 sheets of 1/8" and one of the
1/4". That gives me one full sheet of 1/8" and the cut off from the other
1/8" for the other various plywood parts. Same with the 1/4".
Looks like I can get the Okoume stuff from Boulter for cheap...cut and ship
ped.
--- On Thu=2C 8/27/09=2C Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
Date: Thursday=2C August 27=2C 2009=2C 12:14 PM
The plans do not call for a specific type of plywood to be used. Probably w
hatever the norm was back in 1934. I would assume that the glues used today
are superior to those of 75 years ago.
I'm planning to use Marine Okoume throughout my fuselage. I haven't done a
proper material layout=2C but I think it would be a very tight squeeze to g
et ALL of the 1/8" ply parts out of a single 4' x 8' sheet (fuse sides=2C f
use and tail gussets=2C seat bottoms=2C seat backs=2C firewall=2C turtledec
k formers=2C instrument panels=2C etc. etc.)=2C so I bought two sheets=2C w
hich added a whopping $40 or so to my material costs. But=2C in the long ru
n=2C I'm sure it will have saved me money=2C since we all end up making a f
ew "extra" parts=2C and on the day that I realize that I need a few more sq
uare feet of 1/8" plywood=2C I won't have to go buy another sheet. Just som
ething to keep in mind -- especially if you're having plywood shipped.
Bill C.
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ol-List
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Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
The plans do have the ordinates. If you want to loft from the plans, go
right ahead; been there, done that. I've also had two full size prints, the
Pietenpol rib and the Riblett rib, and both of those prints were just fine
dimensionally. It only takes a second to check a few dimensions; the rear o
f
the front spar to the front of the rear spar, overall length, etc.
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Doug Dever wr
ote:
> Just ordered my Piet plans. I didn't order the full size rib layout
> because I've heard a few people say that it is not quite correct due to t
he
> anomalies of copiers. Do the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib
> template from?
>
> Doug Dever
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it
> now.<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
BYD,
Not to throw stones or anything, but one part of that setup would concern
me; the concern comes to mind especially because of a video I watched the
other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loq1olceSIE
Avweb compares The Claw (it's gonna getcha!), Flyties, a setup from Deal
Associates, and a commonly available 'doggie auger'. I wish they would have
done their test in something besides Florida soil, but I digress. In the
video the head of the 'doggie auger' deformed significantly. Even if the
brass that the hook you have is made out of could somehow equal the strengt
h
of the cheap ferrous metal that the 'doggie auger' was made out of, it is
still significantly smaller. If the 'doggie auger' deforms that much,
imagine what the brass hook would do. If your setup works for you then pay
no mind to me; just wanted to share that observation and thought on the
matter.
As an aside, a comment that they made towards the end of the video regardin
g
the Flyties caught my attention. They mentioned that when they pulled the
Flyties out at an angle that they performed 'better'. Of course, they don't
quantify that remark, but I thought it was worth making note. How do you
install your Flyties when you use them, Mike?
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:45 PM, BYD wrote:
>
> This may not be the best, but I=92ll include my favorite. It=92s simply
three,
> one foot pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These ar
e
> joined by a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While you=92re in th
e
> hardware store buying the chain (they=92ll cut it for you) purchase nine
of
> the largest nails they have (check to assure they=92ll pass through the
> links). To get fancy, pick up a =93fence hammer=94 which also works like
pliers
> to extract the nails. Add three pieces of good rope (also from the hardw
are
> store) and place it all in a bag. See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too
> much time in the hardware store!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
I'd guess he is having the same problem I am. I am able to download and
pay for the $35 update from the page you linked to just fine. Doing
that every couple of years would be fine with me. But, the card reader
that came with the lowrance unit is proprietary and it no longer works,
so I have no way to load the file to my flash card. Complicating things
further, the flash readers have multiple drivers for different readers,
and I don't know which one to use because the sticker fell off my reader
long ago. Of course, the web site still takes my money. It just seems
that Lowrance could've come up with a better way to update the files and
they would've had a few more happy customers.
Are we allowed to talk about GPS and flash memory on the Pietenpol
forum? Seems almost sacrilege.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
John,
Under risk of having an Airmap GPS 500 thrown at my head, have you
seen this:
http://www.lei-extras.com/store/jepp_db.asp
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:53 AM, wrote:
I Hate Lowrance, I have the Airmap GPS that I purchased brand new It
may be the 500 unit. It works great however there is no way I can get an
update for my charts so its no longer accurate nor can t be since noone
supports that system nor are that style card available.
Here I have a well operating unity that's only as good as the map
data card Jepp charts which are grossly obsolete. There is no 3rd party
producing the cards or mounting charts so either I fly with that or I
buy a new one.
I will never buy, borrow, beg or steal another Lowrance product.
That company just plane Sucks and that's the good part.
I would have liked to get more than 12 months of life and one chart
upgrade for the money. You would think they would have supported their
obsolete equipment or had a 3rd party in line for support, rather than
dumping the line so we all have to buy new from them. Not me again, not
never. Those jerks can choke on their lousy crummy rotten attitude
towards customer support and go straight to He11, in my humble opinion
and for what its worth I hope ASS is watching too so they know they will
never get me buying a Lowrance product from them or any other company.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Just curious Russel, but are you planning to use Aircraft Grade Birch
ply for your gussets, or the "cheap" Birch that fell apart in the boil
test you did?
Also curious why you would say that the Birch has "twice the strength
and resistance to tear and shear", and then in your next line say that
you have no data to offer. What is your statement based on, then ... Gut
feeling? I agree that Birch is stronger (and heavier) than Okoume, but
twice as strong? I don't think so.
And finally, what would the advantage be to coating the gussets with
epoxy glue, as opposed to epoxy varnish? Seems like it would be a lot
heavier. I don't get it.
I realize you are building YOUR plane, and you get to build it the way
YOU want to (within reason). This is called Experimental Aviation, and
it is supposed to be a learning process for those that take part. But
since these "experiments" will eventually be carrying real, live people
up in the air, I get nervous when I see people writing about how they
are planning to do something that doesn't follow time-tested methods,
without any science to back them up. I'm all for people discovering new
ways to do things, and using alternative materials - as long as there is
some sound science to back it up.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Robert Ray
Sent: Thu 27/08/2009 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
Well I'm no expert but I'm not going to use okume on the gussets, I'm
using
birch, 1/8 that is, much stronger,
then I will use Okume on the sides. Very little birch and twice the
strength
and resistance to tear and shear than Okume.
Again I have no data to offer you this is just my preference. Also I'm
going
to nail and glue at these points
then coat with epoxy, not epoxy varnish but plain old Raka epoxy marine
glue.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage building and materialokume ply;Q; |
ok i se beter now is all abut confucion tanks for these inform these i look
in the web and pise from 4x8ft material cost 46some dolars ,tanks again bi
ll ,seyou nex,
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and materialokume ply;
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 9:56 PM
Jorge,
I'm not sure if I understand your question, but if you are asking whether O
koume Marine plywood is okay to use for your fuselage sides, the answer is
yes. Many Pietenpols have been successfully built with this plywood used fo
r the fuselage sides.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of jorge lizarrag
a
Sent: Thu 27/08/2009 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and materialokume ply;
ups thats is bad think i agry in all you say i dont want brokent thinks in
my plane fuselaje sides or so. mayby used from small joint or instrument pa
nel view copit shape and bulk head thanks for you in form
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Robert Ray wrote:
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:29 AM
One more thing I would not use Okume unless I coated it with epoxy, it's so
ft
and you can dent-it with your finger nail, it however soaks epoxy like a
sponge
and this increases it's side hardness and abrasion resistance.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
In the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can buy it f
or a buck a board
foot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birch although not boil proof
it's stronger and more
flexible than 1088 Okume, probably twice as strong per deminsion and it's C
HEAP.
The epoxy I'm using will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil test
ed the natural
wood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry about i
s not so
much a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over time. I have a p
iece of baltic
birch on a truck topper I built it's been exposed to rain several times and
hasn't delaminated yet.
It's shock resistance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate marin
e plywood
strength in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was bui
lt of
Okume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a little
cheaper
than the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more durable and less
likly to rot
than either okume or birch.
I would not use anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on other p
rojects
and I think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are spliced.
If you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and there yo
u will
learn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fiber glas
s it is
a very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give a much smoother
finnish than DF.
-
my 02 cents worth
-
Russell
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 AM, jorge lizarraga wro
te:
ups- tanks for all you inform i used in my plane birch aircraft plywood m
m. buy in spruse but the last buy shiping chargers is almost the same amoun
t the wood????if you have thoses scrap pises i like tonow if you like selmy
those .
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com wrote:
From: brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:35 AM
I have to agree with- Gary..we have a MacBeath Hardwood here in SLC, UT a
nd the prices are great I got my Spruce and ply and I don't have to pay shi
pping costs.
-
Brian
SLC, UT
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
-
Jorge,
-
All the 1/8" plywood on my project is Marine Mahogany which I purchased loc
ally. In fact, I just found a new supplier in the San Francisco Bay Area th
at is far cheaper. The last sheet I bought from MacBeath Hardwood was $25!!
If you just need some scraps for making gussets for your tail, let me know
.
-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done,-Fuselage-on gear
(13 ribs down.)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jorge lizarraga
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
-
hi im jorge from hanford ca, in these moment i folow thw nex step tp build
my piet is the tail section stare whit the stavilizer and look you mail is
bery nice to have okume plywood sprus sale for the same size 98 a pise 4X8F
T IF YOU NOW SOME GUYS BUILD THE SIDE COVER WHIT THESE WOOD YOUNOW . tanks
for you mail and seyou nex
--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 9:17 AM
Regarding the wedge blocks, I believe they are only required at the two loc
ations shown, as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some builders h
ave opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other locations, to avo
id water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
-
Regarding plywood, one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is that
it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues. This will p
revent the plies from delaminating, should the wood somehow become soaked w
ith water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade plywood for the fuse
lage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume is a ma
hogany-like tropical wood).-While it is not quite as strong as Aircraft p
ly made of Birch, it is apparently strong enough for this purpose, and is m
anufactured using waterproof (also boilproof) glues. In addition to the low
er cost, it is also lighter (in weight, as well as color) than Birch, and a
vailable in 4' x 8' sheets.
-
A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
-
-
http://www.noahsmarine.com/
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
-
Bill C. - -" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Pietenpol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution
-
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -
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http://forums.matronics.com
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
- - -
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Steve, and a bit applicable to John,
It seems John, unfortunately, is SOL because neither Lowrance or the LEI
people support the Airmap 300 (I'm not telling him anything he doesn't
already know). Since the aviation GPS world is generally not populated by
young teenagers interested in older hardware, no one has hacked the 300 to
accept 500 updates.
Steve, do you have the 300 or a different model?
John....I would send you a batch of homemade cream puffs(!) to help
alleviate your frustrations about the Lowrance, but I don't know how to make
those. You may however get yourself on the list for the best chocolate chip
cookies ever....independently confirmed by the Medical Imaging department at
Children's Memorial Hospital.
Have a good night all,
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Steve Ruse wrote:
> I'd guess he is having the same problem I am. I am able to download and
> pay for the $35 update from the page you linked to just fine. Doing that
> every couple of years would be fine with me. But, the card reader that came
> with the lowrance unit is proprietary and it no longer works, so I have no
> way to load the file to my flash card. Complicating things further, the
> flash readers have multiple drivers for different readers, and I don't know
> which one to use because the sticker fell off my reader long ago. Of
> course, the web site still takes my money. It just seems that Lowrance
> could've come up with a better way to update the files and they would've had
> a few more happy customers.
>
> Are we allowed to talk about GPS and flash memory on the Pietenpol forum?
> Seems almost sacrilege.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
I know what a Timesert is but what's an Assert?
Clif
>
I am gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
>
> John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I'm not sure as to whether I'll use the baltic birch I have or buy some
GL-2,
I have a different batch than the ply I boiled tested, you really have to
take
a piece of birch and a piece of okume in your hand, try it take a piece
say 2'' by 10'' one okume and one baltic birch then try to break them
with your hands then you get a measure of the strength of each and the birch
is almost the same ratio of strength to weight as 4130 steel.
There are no gaps that I can find in the birch, the outer plys have no knots
of foot balls and you can't break it with your hands, the okume snaps
pretty easy. You have to try this to get the feel for it. However what you
said
makes sense if building a plane why not just buy some gl-1 or 2 birch you
don't have to buy that much to do the gussets, probably one 4x4 sheet would
do
it. So yes I agree with you. I may however experiment a little more
and soak the birch in the bath tub just to see if it de laminates.
I think if it holds I may use it making sure that it is completely soaked in
epoxy
and then spar urethane where absolutely no water can get in.
Like I said I worry about the aging of the glue, is it prone over time
to deteriorate. I may do some research on the glue type and see.
I currently have a camper on my pickup with a large door built out of this
Baltic
birch so far it has faired the weather well but then I can't wait forever
so test every piece of lumber and must go forward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I enjoy the discussion and need to here other peoples opinions
and I appreciate it. No man is an Island unless he wants to crash.
Russell
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
> I'm not sure as to whether I'll use the baltic birch I have or buy some
> GL-2,
> I have a different batch than the ply I boiled tested, you really have to
> take
> a piece of birch and a piece of okume in your hand, try it take a piece
> say 2'' by 10'' one okume and one baltic birch then try to break them
> with your hands then you get a measure of the strength of each and the
> birch
> is almost the same ratio of strength to weight as 4130 steel.
> There are no gaps that I can find in the birch, the outer plys have no
> knots
> of foot balls and you can't break it with your hands, the okume snaps
> pretty easy. You have to try this to get the feel for it. However what you
> said
> makes sense if building a plane why not just buy some gl-1 or 2 birch you
> don't have to buy that much to do the gussets, probably one 4x4 sheet would
> do
> it. So yes I agree with you. I may however experiment a little more
> and soak the birch in the bath tub just to see if it de laminates.
> I think if it holds I may use it making sure that it is completely soaked
> in epoxy
> and then spar urethane where absolutely no water can get in.
> Like I said I worry about the aging of the glue, is it prone over time
> to deteriorate. I may do some research on the glue type and see.
> I currently have a camper on my pickup with a large door built out of this
> Baltic
> birch so far it has faired the weather well but then I can't wait forever
> so test every piece of lumber and must go forward.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | portable tie downs |
Ryan-the Flyties go in the ground as shown in this photo. In comparison
to the Claw, whose spikes point in toward each
other, the Flyties point away or diverge from each other and also do so wit
h a 'radial twist', if you will, as they are driven in
the ground.
[cid:image003.jpg(at)01CA27B2.2BECC680]
http://www.flyties.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
Hello Robert. I am not going to tell you what to use on your plane, what no
t to use or anything of that nature...unless you ask me too! I will say thi
s:- Keep in mind...weight. That is one of the critical factors in a small
, drag prone aircraft. Any "performance" gain you can get will pay off in t
he long run and being mind full of weight is easy to do and saves some mone
y. Lastly, also keep in mind that the wood pieces will-ultimately be cove
red with some type of protection for moisture and rot as well as glue/adhes
ives, fabric, paint, etc. You may even keep it in a hangar and not left out
side in the elements.
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
I received this and thought that others may be interested in making their
opinions known. Its not to often Tom asks but anyone having an opinion
should express it,
John
Dear EAA MEMBER,
Since its founding in 1953 EAA members have served as a dynamic and
vibrant force of innovation and change in aviation. The passionate spiri
t of EAA
members has led to a growing and dynamic organization that has expanded
along with the interests of members.
I would appreciate your candid response to the survey below because it
will help us better serve all EAA members. We want to hear what you have
to
say!
The survey should take only a few minutes to complete. Please complete th
e
survey by September 6.
========================
========================
===========
Please take the EAA Membership Survey now!
_http://www.zipsurvey.com/LaunchSurvey.aspx?ieid=4410051&key=1569CACF_
(http://www.zipsurvey.com/LaunchSurvey.aspx?ieid=4410051&key=1569CACF)
========================
========================
===========
I=99ll be personally reviewing the results, along with EAA staff.
Your
feelings about your EAA membership are extremely important. The feedback
you can
provide will help us ensure that your organization provides the valued
information and programs that you are looking for.
Thank you for being a member of EAA and for assisting in this important
research. After taking a deep breath and recovering from the excitement
of
AirVenture Oshkosh 2009 we will be reviewing the results of the conventi
on
and begin planning for improvements for EAA AirVenture Oshkosh 2010. We
hope to see you and your fellow members there July 26-August 1!
Sincerely,
Tom Poberezny, EAA President
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Sounds like a plan, Russell.
Would hate to see all the work that goes into building a Piet go to
waste just for a few dollars "savings".
Occasionally one hears about an airplane being restored, and when the
old fabric is removed, the structure basically falls apart - the only
thing holding the structure together was the fabric. Wouldn't want to be
trusting my life to something like that.
Glad to hear you're going to proceed with caution.
Bill C..
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ray
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
I'm not sure as to whether I'll use the baltic birch I have or buy some
GL-2,
I have a different batch than the ply I boiled tested, you really have
to take
a piece of birch and a piece of okume in your hand, try it take a piece
say 2'' by 10'' one okume and one baltic birch then try to break them
with your hands then you get a measure of the strength of each and the
birch
is almost the same ratio of strength to weight as 4130 steel.
There are no gaps that I can find in the birch, the outer plys have no
knots
of foot balls and you can't break it with your hands, the okume snaps
pretty easy. You have to try this to get the feel for it. However what
you said
makes sense if building a plane why not just buy some gl-1 or 2 birch
you
don't have to buy that much to do the gussets, probably one 4x4 sheet
would do
it. So yes I agree with you. I may however experiment a little more
and soak the birch in the bath tub just to see if it de laminates.
I think if it holds I may use it making sure that it is completely
soaked in epoxy
and then spar urethane where absolutely no water can get in.
Like I said I worry about the aging of the glue, is it prone over time
to deteriorate. I may do some research on the glue type and see.
I currently have a camper on my pickup with a large door built out of
this Baltic
birch so far it has faired the weather well but then I can't wait
forever
so test every piece of lumber and must go forward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> BYD,
>
> Not to throw stones or anything, but one part of that setup would
> concern me; the concern comes to mind especially because of a video I
> watched the other day:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loq1olceSIE
Interesting. I think I might buy myself some doggie augers and weld the
hole shut (after grinding off the plating, of course).
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
OK, just to throw a fly in the ointment, last year (two years ago?) a
friend of mine and I decided to built a Flitzer Z-3 biplane. If you're
not familiar with it, suffice it to say that it's a very cool single
seat bipe designed by Lynn Williams and certified by some government
flight design and testing agency in the UK, the name of which escapes at
the moment.
Anyway, the Flitzer uses 3/8"x3/16" spruce for rib cap material and 1mm
for gusset material of unspecified species (we chose birch). Wing cord
on the Z-3 upper wing is 36", so it's shorter than the Piet.
My question is this: if 1mm gusset material is good enough for an
aerobatic Flitzer why shouldn't it be good enough for a non-aerobatic
Piet?
Dan
Michael Perez wrote:
>
> Hello Robert. I am not going to tell you what to use on your plane, what
> not to use or anything of that nature...unless you ask me too! I will
> say this: Keep in mind...weight. That is one of the critical factors in
> a small, drag prone aircraft. Any "performance" gain you can get will
> pay off in the long run and being mind full of weight is easy to do and
> saves some money. Lastly, also keep in mind that the wood pieces
> will ultimately be covered with some type of protection for moisture and
> rot as well as glue/adhesives, fabric, paint, etc. You may even keep it
> in a hangar and not left outside in the elements.
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
Don't know if you watched that clip or not, but near the beginning they note
that the other thing the 'doggie augers' tend to do is have the heads snap
off.... :P
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>
> Ryan Mueller wrote:
>
>> BYD,
>>
>> Not to throw stones or anything, but one part of that setup would concern
>> me; the concern comes to mind especially because of a video I watched the
>> other day:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loq1olceSIE
>>
>
> Interesting. I think I might buy myself some doggie augers and weld the
> hole shut (after grinding off the plating, of course).
>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
You guys are lucky! You have all those cool, grassy strips, surrounded
by farm land.
Out West, we need a 5lb sledge hammer and steel concrete form stakes to
get thru the rocks!
Gary
--------------------------
Gary A. Boothe
Sales Manager
CALPLY Architectural Products Division
Sent from BlackBerry Wireless Device
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri Aug 28 09:51:33 2009
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> BYD,
>
> Not to throw stones or anything, but one part of that setup would
> concern me; the concern comes to mind especially because of a video I
> watched the other day:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loq1olceSIE
Interesting. I think I might buy myself some doggie augers and weld the
hole shut (after grinding off the plating, of course).
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Having watched the video link posted by Ryan, I'm puzzled by something.
Both the Claw and Flyties claim a pullout strength of 1200 pounds, yet
in this testing they only held about 300 pounds in the Florida soil
(what is the soil made of down there, cottage cheese?) and about twice
that amount in some California soil (maybe everybody should carry a
bucketful of california soil with them when they travel). This still
only gets up to HALF of the claimed holding power. So, for these two
companies to make these claims, one must assume that the claims could be
substantiated. Where do you suppose did these two companies did their
testing? I'm guessing that it must have involved a big chunk of granite
and a hammer drill. But seriously, that's WAY off the claimed holding
power.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: any real WWII aviation historians here? |
Hi John,
This intrigued me... hope you don't mind that I reposted your request on the
Warbird forum I follow, thsoe guys have a LOT of Warbird info on stuff like
this so maybe we'll find some more info for you on this.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31744
According to a search on that site, "Rio Hato" only appeared about once...
listing the following fates for Boeing B-17E Fortress, it might help with
the search to know the unit/squadron. I've also listed the records
mentioning "Panama". The first no. is the aircraft's S/N, there are all
B-17Es:
2569 (40th BG, 395th BS) damaged in landing accident at Rio Hato, Panama Apr
10, 1943
2422 (6th BG, 3rd BS) crashed at David Field, Panama Jul 14, 1943
2504 used in Panama and returned to USA in 1943.
2506 used in Panama and returned to USA in 1943.
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <AMsafetyC(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: any real WWII aviation historians here?
On or about March 3, 1942 army air corps bomber squadron was stationed in
Panama. During which time the illegal nose are was being painted on those
ships, mostly anonymously. One of the artist was a young fellow named Nick
Maltese. A graduate of the students art league of New York.
Much if not all the nose art went unclaimed and unsigned as difficult as it
may sound I am looking for some of is work?
Any ideas or assistance on how to find it is greatly appreciated
John
FYI Following is a bit of the family bio
Nick and Frank served in the same theater of operations in the same combat
zone. Frank, who is now 87, was an instructor of aircraft trade classes at
Chanute Field, Ill., and was trained for the 6th Air Force 365th Material
Squadron & Heavy Bombardment Group. He arrived in Panama on March 3, 1942,
after six days and nights, but after the first three of six ships made it
through the canal, the last three ships were ordered to disembark
immediately. These men, including Frank, instead lived isolated in a jungle
outpost
for 2 12 years.
He spent the majority of his time guarding the Pacific entrance to the
Panama Canal, and was stationed at the Rio Hato Air Base in Panama. His
responsibilities included defending the air field, maintaining bombers and
fighters, tracking enemy submarines and rescuing downed aircraft. He also
became
a rear gunner by accident, trained to use a 30-caliber water-cooled gun by a
commander who couldn't locate his men when an alert signal went off.
After serving overseas, Frank was sent to the McClellan Air Base in
California in June, 1944, in preparation for traveling to Guam. During a
two-week
furlough, he went home to New Brunswick to marry his high school
sweetheart and his current wife of 62 years, Florence Nicholson.
(javascript:openimage('029p3_xlg.jpg',472,304)) Nick MalteseHowever,
after the atomic bomb was dropped in 1945, the war ended and his service
was
over. The staff sergeant never returned overseas, but was instead honorably
discharged in October of that year. He received the American Service, Good
Conduct, New Jersey Distinguished Service and Victory medals.
Nick, who is now 88, also enlisted in the Air Corps on Jan. 9, 1942. He
arrived in Panama on the same day as Frank, and was also responsible for
guarding the entrance to the Panama Canal on the Pacific side. He was an
aide
to the commanding general, Lt. General Hubert R. Harmon, on special
assignments operating out of Airbrook Field in the Panama Canal Zone. He was
the
only enlisted person who was allowed to fly over the canal itself without
being shot down.
After his service of 2 12 years, he too was sent back to the McClellan
base on June 8, 1944, in preparation for the invasion of Japan. However,
after the war ended, he was discharged on Oct. 16, 1945. He received the
American Service, Good Conduct and Victory medals.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
In my pre- FlyTie tie down days I found that doggie augers worked well enou
gh for overnight parking at fly-in events
though you have to shop around if you choose to use these because there are
the el-cheapo, cheesy, thin diameter, poorly
manufactured doggie augers and then there are the thicker diameter, chrome
plated (well....they are nicer looking) beefier
ones that don't snap off when you use some bar or thickwalled tube stock to
twist them in .
One danger of the doggie augers is that if you snap the head off (and I've
done it) you have this spiral of steel in the ground
and it is a pain in the Recine to get out. (kidding John-you know we lov
e ya man) I have snapped them off trying to remove
them and the last thing you want to do it leave that in the ground for some
one to trip over or for the brush hog/ finish mower
and airport tractor to find in a flurry of sparks when it hits the mower bl
ades or punctures someone's tire.
I figured I probably spend around $14 K building my plane....what's $75 to
$90 to get a really GOOD tie down set that will protect
all of your hard work on windy days and stormy nights when you're exposed t
o the elements ?
Mike C.
PS-another good reason to tie down is you never know who is going to inadve
rtently point some good prop blasts at your
airplane when they are pulling into park or trying to taxi out. If yo
u're not tied down then your airplane could bash into
another airplane...and make everyone's day crappy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
And to boot Bill I thought they said that 1200 lbs was PER STAKE.....that's
a bunch of BS.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
Having watched the video link posted by Ryan, I'm puzzled by something.
Both the Claw and Flyties claim a pullout strength of 1200 pounds, yet in t
his testing they only held about 300 pounds in the Florida soil (what is th
e soil made of down there, cottage cheese?) and about twice that amount in
some California soil (maybe everybody should carry a bucketful of californi
a soil with them when they travel). This still only gets up to HALF of the
claimed holding power. So, for these two companies to make these claims, on
e must assume that the claims could be substantiated. Where do you suppose
did these two companies did their testing? I'm guessing that it must have i
nvolved a big chunk of granite and a hammer drill. But seriously, that's WA
Y off the claimed holding power.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: any real WWII aviation historians here? |
Mike
Here is a link to the full article if there are any additional clues to be
had form it.
_North Brunswick's men (and woman) of steel | NBS.gmnews.com | North South
Brun_ (http://nbs.gmnews.com/news/2007/0222/Front_page/029.html)
_North Brunswick's men (and woman) of steel | NBS.gmnews.com | North South
Brun_ (http://nbs.gmnews.com/news/2007/0222/Front_page/029.html)
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
I bet the installation instructions say something to the effect of "Do
not install directly below the tie-down points on your aircraft.
Install at least 5' away to maximize holding strength."
Mike - good point on the cheesy doggie augers and twisted off heads.
We've had enough rain around here that the ground is sufficiently soft
this year, but usually when August rolls around it does get awful hard
to work with... Think I'll shell out the dough and get The Claw and
make sure I install them far enough away to get the maximum strength.
Thanks all,
Dan
Bill Church wrote:
> Having watched the video link posted by Ryan, I'm puzzled by something.
>
> Both the Claw and Flyties claim a pullout strength of 1200 pounds, yet
> in this testing they only held about 300 pounds in the Florida soil
> (what is the soil made of down there, cottage cheese?) and about twice
> that amount in some California soil (maybe everybody should carry a
> bucketful of california soil with them when they travel). This still
> only gets up to HALF of the claimed holding power. So, for these two
> companies to make these claims, one must assume that the claims could be
> substantiated. Where do you suppose did these two companies did their
> testing? I'm guessing that it must have involved a big chunk of granite
> and a hammer drill. But seriously, that's WAY off the claimed holding power.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Well Dan,
I think you're sort of comparing apples and oranges.
There isn't a "standard" thickness for rib gussets. It would depend on a
number of factors. The Piet's chord is 5 ft, the Flitzer is 3 ft. The
Piet's wingspan is 29 ft, the Flitzer's is maybe 20 ft.
It may well be that the Piet's gussets could be made of 1mm plywood,
provided they were sized properly. See the attached photo that I just
grabbed off the web - you can see that the size of the gussets is quite
large, relative to the area of the rib. You will also see that several
of the ribs are almost fully skinned with plywood.
Another reason why the Piet's gussets are 1/16" rather than 1mm is that
the Piet was designed in 1929,and they hadn't even invented millimeters
yet.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
They probably stuck those stakes in by the goalposts on a football field
and started pulling from the 50 yard line. Sure, it's 300lb pulling
*straight up*, but when you're out at an angle, the force required is
going to be a lot more.
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> And to boot Bill I thought they said that 1200 lbs was PER
> STAKE..thats a bunch of BS.
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Church
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2009 1:23 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
>
>
>
> Having watched the video link posted by Ryan, I'm puzzled by something.
>
>
>
> Both the Claw and Flyties claim a pullout strength of 1200 pounds, yet
> in this testing they only held about 300 pounds in the Florida soil
> (what is the soil made of down there, cottage cheese?) and about twice
> that amount in some California soil (maybe everybody should carry a
> bucketful of california soil with them when they travel). This still
> only gets up to HALF of the claimed holding power. So, for these two
> companies to make these claims, one must assume that the claims could be
> substantiated. Where do you suppose did these two companies did their
> testing? I'm guessing that it must have involved a big chunk of granite
> and a hammer drill. But seriously, that's WAY off the claimed holding power.
>
>
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Just to add to what Mike said about investing $75 to $90 in GOOD tie-downs,
I've had my Pietenpol weather some pretty intense winds from storms
(including the Friday night close encounter with a tornado at Brodhead this
summer) and have never had a moment's problem with "The Claw" (cheesey name,
isn't it?). I always tie the stick back with the seatbelt to give some
margin of gustlock to the controls, except for the rudder and the tailwheel
gives it some stability.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: doggie augers
In my pre- FlyTie tie down days I found that doggie augers worked well
enough for overnight parking at fly-in events
though you have to shop around if you choose to use these because there are
the el-cheapo, cheesy, thin diameter, poorly
manufactured doggie augers and then there are the thicker diameter, chrome
plated (well..they are nicer looking) beefier
ones that don't snap off when you use some bar or thickwalled tube stock to
twist them in .
One danger of the doggie augers is that if you snap the head off (and I've
done it) you have this spiral of steel in the ground
and it is a pain in the Recine to get out. (kidding John-you know we love
ya man) I have snapped them off trying to remove
them and the last thing you want to do it leave that in the ground for
someone to trip over or for the brush hog/ finish mower
and airport tractor to find in a flurry of sparks when it hits the mower
blades or punctures someone's tire.
I figured I probably spend around $14 K building my plane..what's $75 to $90
to get a really GOOD tie down set that will protect
all of your hard work on windy days and stormy nights when you're exposed to
the elements ?
Mike C.
PS-another good reason to tie down is you never know who is going to
inadvertently point some good prop blasts at your
airplane when they are pulling into park or trying to taxi out. If
you're not tied down then your airplane could bash into
another airplane.and make everyone's day crappy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
A rough running of the numbers shows the Flitzer having a wing area of about
112 sq ft, so at an aerobatic gross of 1000lbs the wing loading would only
be a bit more than .5 lb/sq ft than the Piet (roughly); that makes them
comparable enough. As Bill said, the extensive plywood skinning would make a
difference. Maybe the fact that they are more compact ribs, and more
'densely packed' with uprights and diagonals than the Piet ribs....
http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/images/JeffBeach/RibJig.jpg
Ryan
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Bill Church wrote:
>
> Well Dan,
>
> I think you're sort of comparing apples and oranges.
> There isn't a "standard" thickness for rib gussets. It would depend on a
> number of factors. The Piet's chord is 5 ft, the Flitzer is 3 ft. The
> Piet's wingspan is 29 ft, the Flitzer's is maybe 20 ft.
> It may well be that the Piet's gussets could be made of 1mm plywood,
> provided they were sized properly. See the attached photo that I just
> grabbed off the web - you can see that the size of the gussets is quite
> large, relative to the area of the rib. You will also see that several
> of the ribs are almost fully skinned with plywood.
>
> Another reason why the Piet's gussets are 1/16" rather than 1mm is that
> the Piet was designed in 1929,and they hadn't even invented millimeters
> yet.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Now, how does one tie down an airplane with this?
And why are some people snapping the heads off. That's cruel.
maybe I've misunderstood something...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
Bill Church wrote:
> grabbed off the web - you can see that the size of the gussets is quite
> large, relative to the area of the rib. You will also see that several
> of the ribs are almost fully skinned with plywood.
Those are the compression ribs, yep.
>
> Another reason why the Piet's gussets are 1/16" rather than 1mm is that
Oh, 1/16"? I thought I saw people talking about 1/8" thick gussets.
Well, that's different, then.
> the Piet was designed in 1929,and they hadn't even invented millimeters
> yet.
Hey, now, the metric system was first used in 1791. Even you
Cannuckastanis use the "little ones" on the ruler and the "big ones" on
the speedometer.
Considering that I can think in metric (it makes sense!) I wish us Yanks
did, too.
But, I digress...
;-)
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Yes, they both DO say 1200 pounds per anchor, for a total holding power
of 3600 lb.
They don't even say "up to" 1200 pounds, which would give them some
wiggle room.
Here's the website for the Claw (claim: Holds 1200 pounds per Claw) :
http://www.theclaw.com/C100.html
and here's the website for Flyties (claim: 1200 pounds in most
conditions):
http://www.flyties.com/faq.html
and here's the website for Deal Associates (they do not make any claims
about pullout strength):
http://www.dealassoc.com/tie-down_kit.htm
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
And to boot Bill I thought they said that 1200 lbs was PER
STAKE.....that's a bunch of BS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Almost time to start covering this thing |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
How many yards of fabric did it take to cover your Piet? I plan on using 1.7
weight uncertified fabric, use the Stuart Systems stuff to stick it on and
Latex paint. I talked to the guy that built one of the Corvair Piets at
Broadhead this year(he was there with his Son and I don't remember his
name), after looking at his Piet I assumed it had a really good doped paint
job. It is a Latex paint job and here's how he finished it:
- four cross-coats with latex primer (one coat painted vertically and
allowed to dry, then one painted horizontally, dry and repeat)
- four cross-coats with Satin Exterior Latex
I created a test panel that I painted with Gloss Latex 5 years ago and
screwed to a post outside and it still looks like new but it does have brush
marks that can still be seen. I think one way to avoid brush marks is to use
Satin rather than Gloss or High Gloss Latex (and it will look like an old
fashion doped job but with better durability and lower cost).
Anyhow if anyone has recently purchased fabic and found a place with a good
price please let me know.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
As someone else mentioned, the test in the video probably was not
done correctly. As per the FAA's recommendations, and just common
sense, tie-downs should be placed outward from the center of the
plane, away from the attach points on the airplane. The ropes should
be nowhere near vertical. Yet, a vertical pull is how the test was
done in the video. I have always assumed that all of the multi-point
solutions rely on the tie-down rope _not_ pulling straight up, but
rather at a pretty severe angle.
Obviously we must fix the world. In this case, I think that we should
perform a proper test at Brodhead 2010! :)
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net> |
Rick I am glad to hear your intent of using Latex-I am not at all satisfied with
the coverage I got from the Poly products I have had including the red I did
the fuselage in with Polytone. i no doubt tried to get by using too little but
I am seriously considering going over at least the rear portion of the fuselage
with some Red latex if I can get them to mix a good match of color.( I have
never checked to see if it's available in deep red) I managed to drip a drop
of white latex in the side as I was using it to seal some wood and I thought
if I wiped it within 5 minutes with a wet rag it would be gone. no such luck.
I still have a small white smudge.and if it stays that good by accident I don't
know why it wouldn't do just fine if I'd wash the dust off and let it dry and
roll a coat or two on -on purpose.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260280#260280
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
Last time I went to OSH, in the space of an hour we completely snapped in
half something like 8 out of 12 doggie augers (or as some would call them, a
"screw the pooch") in the rock-hard, packed, drought-ridden, cement-like
Oshkosh soil trying to get some tent anchors to secure our display tent for
the week. We got desperate and tried The Claw... it worked absolutely
beautifully. Fortunately we sold them, so had a couple extra sets at our
disposal (and even better, the yellow color matched our airplane perfectly).
Not saying that other ideas won't work, and I've seen a couple of good (and
much less expensive) homebuilt versions of the Claw's basic concept, but
it's really hard to beat a design that uses what is essentially a large,
straight nail for getting it installed on very hard soil, just as AvWeb
said. Here in Florida, there's not much problem with that, here the issue is
holding well enough to stay in at all. Maybe if you mounted a strengthened
doggie auger through the middle of a bigger Claw?
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:00 AM
Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
BYD,
Not to throw stones or anything, but one part of that setup would concern
me; the concern comes to mind especially because of a video I watched the
other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loq1olceSIE
Avweb compares The Claw (it's gonna getcha!), Flyties, a setup from Deal
Associates, and a commonly available 'doggie auger'. I wish they would have
done their test in something besides Florida soil, but I digress. In the
video the head of the 'doggie auger' deformed significantly. Even if the
brass that the hook you have is made out of could somehow equal the strength
of the cheap ferrous metal that the 'doggie auger' was made out of, it is
still significantly smaller. If the 'doggie auger' deforms that much,
imagine what the brass hook would do. If your setup works for you then pay
no mind to me; just wanted to share that observation and thought on the
matter.
As an aside, a comment that they made towards the end of the video regarding
the Flyties caught my attention. They mentioned that when they pulled the
Flyties out at an angle that they performed 'better'. Of course, they don't
quantify that remark, but I thought it was worth making note. How do you
install your Flyties when you use them, Mike?
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:45 PM, BYD wrote:
>
> This may not be the best, but Ill include my favorite. Its simply
three,
> one foot pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These are
> joined by a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While youre in the
> hardware store buying the chain (theyll cut it for you) purchase nine of
> the largest nails they have (check to assure theyll pass through the
> links). To get fancy, pick up a fence hammer which also works like
pliers
> to extract the nails. Add three pieces of good rope (also from the
hardware
> store) and place it all in a bag. See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too
> much time in the hardware store!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Alexander <karbath1(at)yahoo.ca> |
I too, have a Lowrance Airmap 2000 and cannot figure how to download the Je
ppesen maps. Forget trying to phone them, as I have waited 2 hours to get s
omeone to amswer. I have sent an Email about it, and am still waiting to he
ar back. They are so busy trying to protect their software, no one can buy
them. Pretty stupid, if you ask me. Yet they claim their sales have increas
ed by 56%. You would think they could afford to pay someone to answer their
phones! Ross Alexander=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics
.com=0ASent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:50:55 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-L
ist: Re: ASSCO,inc=0A=0ASteve, and a bit applicable to John,=0A=0AIt seems
John, unfortunately, is SOL because neither Lowrance or the LEI people supp
ort the Airmap 300 (I'm not telling him anything he doesn't already know).
Since the aviation GPS world is generally not populated by young teenagers
interested in older hardware, no one has hacked the 300 to accept 500 updat
es.=0A=0ASteve, do you have the 300 or a different model?=0A=0AJohn....I wo
uld send you a batch of homemade cream puffs(!) to help alleviate your frus
trations about the Lowrance, but I don't know how to make those. You may ho
wever get yourself on the list for the best chocolate chip cookies ever....
independently confirmed by the Medical Imaging department at Children's Mem
orial Hospital.=0A=0AHave a good night all,=0A=0ARyan=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Aug 2
7, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Steve Ruse wrote:=0A=0AI'd
guess he is having the same problem I am. =0A>I am able to download and pa
y for the $35 update from the page you linked to =0A>just fine. Doing that
every couple of years would be fine with me. =0A>But, the card reader tha
t came with the lowrance unit is proprietary and it no =0A>longer works, so
I have no way to load the file to my flash card. =0A>Complicating things
further, the flash readers have multiple drivers for =0A>different readers,
and I don't know which one to use because the sticker =0A>fell off my read
er long ago. Of course, the web site still takes my =0A>money. It just se
ems that Lowrance could've come up with a better way to =0A>update the file
s and they would've had a few more happy customers.=0A> =0A>Are we allowed
to talk about GPS and flash =0A>memory on the Pietenpol forum? Seems almos
=============0A=0A=0A ________________________
__________________________________________=0ALooking for the perfect gift?
Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine question |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I will be flying out of a 6900 ft. airport in Colorado so I knew I needed
more than a 65 in my Piet. I agonized for a year whether to buy a used O-200
or build a Corvair for about $6000. I when the Corvair route and since I
haven't flow yet I can't really say if I made a good decision. If you think
that you will want to sell your Piet sometime after completing it you are
probably better off with an aircraft engine.
Talked to the people at Wentworth at Oshkosh who are a big used aircraft
parts supplier about the current costs of used O-200s. They said that the
bad economy has driven the prices up a bunch due to increased demand.
Rick
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 4:38 PM, <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com> wrote:
> Group,
>
> I have been debating on the type of engine for my Piet. I need something
> with horses since my field elevation here in UT is 4700ft. My neighborhas been
over to visit and see my project as well as my T-craft project.
> He told me he has an old 0-235 on an airboat that he would sell me for
> $1200. It runs but leaks oil like crazy and needs new mags and who knows
> what else. It has a carb, not sure which type and the junker boat. I
> could turn and sell the boat for $600 and have a certified engine for $600.
> My fear is buying an old engine with no logs and an unknown history and
> having to pay big money to have it gone through to be able to put it on
> my Piet. Any suggestions from experienced flers would be appreciated.
>
> Brian
>
> SLC, UT
>
> *******Brian Jardine*
> *******L-3 Communications******
> ********Operations Project Engineer*
> 640 North 2200 West
> P.O.Box 16850
> Salt Lake City, UT 84116
>
> L [image: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap)]
>
> 801-594-3482
>
> *****brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com*
>
> ******
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
Just krazy-glue the rope to the rock.
Clif
>
> You guys are lucky! You have all those cool, grassy strips, surrounded
> by farm land.
>
> Out West, we need a 5lb sledge hammer and steel concrete form stakes to
> get thru the rocks!
>
> Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
I can't help you Dan with your fabric question, but what you described is exactly
how I plan on doing my covering...same fabric, same brand adhesives, same type
paint. I will be very curious to hear how it works out for you. PLEASE keep
either the list or me directly posted regularly. Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
My apologies, I got my emails all in a bunch it was Rick's email I was referring
to about the fabric, paint, etc. (not Dan.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
If we are talking off the shelf home type latex, doesn't most places color match?
I wonder if you could take a color sample to the store and they run it through
the machine...presto! (?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | A special Pietenpol |
Occasionally a really special Pietenpol shows up at Brodhead. Actually, I think
this year there were several.
Well, next year when Dan Helsper shows up with his...take close look. WOW. That
will be one of the special ones!
Anyway, I got to check it out on my recent visit to his hangar. It was a humbling
experience.
Dan is what we in the South call "just good people".
Thanks for the visit Dan.
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | A special Pietenpol |
Better check your tool chest, Dan! But that's one beautiful engine...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A special Pietenpol
Occasionally a really special Pietenpol shows up at Brodhead. Actually, I
think this year there were several.
Well, next year when Dan Helsper shows up with his...take close look. WOW.
That will be one of the special ones!
Anyway, I got to check it out on my recent visit to his hangar. It was a
humbling experience.
Dan is what we in the South call "just good people".
Thanks for the visit Dan.
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
The thickness of the gussets in the Flitzer's wings are not what makes it more
capable of handling aerobatic stresses, nor is it a comparison of gross weight
to wing area. If we were to double the thickness of the gussets in the Piet's
wing to 1/8", I still wouldn't be inclined to do any snap maneuvers in a Piet.
The shorter wingspan, stiffer spars, and extra bracing in the Flitzer's airframe
is what gives it the strength to survive aerobatics. The Flitzer was engineered
for a bit more aggressive type of flying. Bernard Pietenpol didn't design
his airplane for aerobatics, but for simple flying pleasure out of his small
pasture airport. This isn't really a comparison of apples to oranges but more
like a comparison of apples to eggs...
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
Baker, LA
tail feathers nearly done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260374#260374
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at Brodhead
this year!
They can be found here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=344
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260384#260384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Alexander <karbath1(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Photos |
Hey Bill! Those were great pic's of the Piet gathering in Brodhead. What a
variety! I am getting time on mine everyday the sun shines! How sweet it
is! Ross Alexander=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: Bill Church =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
=0ASent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:05:53 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Br
lspiet(at)sympatico.ca>=0A=0AWell, I finally got around to downloading some of
the pictures I took at Brodhead this year!=0AThey can be found here:=0A=0A
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=344=0A=0AB
ill C.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matron
===============0A=0A=0A __________________
________________________________________________=0AThe new Internet Explore
r=AE 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free!
at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Photos |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Bill,
Very good pictures of the Brodhead flyin. Thanks for posting them, I looked forward
to your pictures after seeing how good they were last year.
Jim
On Aug 29, 2009, Bill Church wrote:
Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at Brodhead
this year!
They can be found here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=344
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260384#260384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | wood struts-test sample |
Remember that the struts take the compression loads when landing or at rest
and the cables take the lifting loads while flying. Big Jim Vandervoort il
lustrated it by saying that you could saw the struts off in flight and noth
ing would change. So, instead of a "pull" test for your laminated struts, y
ou should probably be more concerned with the compression loading.
-
Larry=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
I believe the nicopress tool dad bought is from cleveland telephone Co.-
As long as the tool has a go/no go gauge use it.- The nicco press was des
igned 1st for the pole line industry.- If you have any questions about th
e integrity I will happily do some destructive testing, tractor pull style.
- I think I have some shrubs to pull out any how, and the old Allis Chalm
ers needs a work out.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools |
Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U chaped
spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no problems--if
it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws a bit
to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
'passing' nico squeezes.
Mike C.
PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge and I
use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2 seconds
to see if you've got a good press or not.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Photos |
Nice job Bill thanks for the pics
John
In a message dated 8/29/2009 3:06:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billspiet(at)sympatico.ca writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church"
Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at
Brodhead this year!
They can be found here:
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGalleryList2.cfm?AlbumID=344
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260384#260384
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: A special Pietenpol |
Did I notice some parts missing for that beautiful Model A engine? Markle
strikes again
Jim nice pic. Dan great looking work
John
In a message dated 8/29/2009 11:42:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
Occasionally a really special Pietenpol shows up at Brodhead. Actually, I
think this year there were several.
Well, next year when Dan Helsper shows up with his...take close look.
WOW. That will be one of the special ones!
Anyway, I got to check it out on my recent visit to his hangar. It was a
humbling experience.
Dan is what we in the South call "just good people".
Thanks for the visit Dan.
JM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | wood struts-test sample |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Well, that's not completely true Larry.
The first part is correct. When the Piet is at rest (on it's wheels) the
weight of the wings is supported entirely by the lift struts - in
compression. Same goes for when touching down on landing. Cables are
useless in compression - you can't push a rope.
Now, when flying, all (at least 90%, anyway) of the lifting load is
being borne by the lift strut attachment fittings on the bottom of the
wings. Attached to those fittings are the lift struts. And attached to
the lift struts are the flying wires. The primary purpose of the flying
wires is to brace the lift struts - to prevent them from swaying fore or
aft. If they were intended to carry the lifting load, they would be
in-line with the lift struts, not arranged diagonally as they are. The
lift struts are designed to carry the lifting loads.
Having said that ... doubtlessly, some of the lifting load does get
transferred to these cables when in flight. And if, for some odd reason,
one ended up having one's lift struts sawed off in flight, the plane
could probably manage to keep flying (as long as no sudden movements
were made, or turbulence was encountered. Upon landing, the wings would
of course, collapse, since someone sawed off the struts.
So, I think the most important function that the lift struts serve is
carrying the lifting load - in tension. And the second-most important
function they serve is holding the wings up on the ground (in
compression). The tension loads are considerably higher than the
compression loads. In the archives, maybe a year or so ago, Jack
Phillips did a quick calculation of the design loads for the lift struts
(which if I remember correctly was about 4000 pounds for the front
struts). 1/8" Aircraft cable is rated for around 2000 pounds.
So, if a fabricated strut assembly can withstand a 4000 pound tension
test, it's probably up for the task.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Sat 29/08/2009 9:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts-test sample
Remember that the struts take the compression loads when landing or at
rest and the cables take the lifting loads while flying. Big Jim
Vandervoort illustrated it by saying that you could saw the struts off
in flight and nothing would change. So, instead of a "pull" test for
your laminated struts, you should probably be more concerned with the
compression loading.
-
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Someone was talking recently about scarfing...I just ran across this picture from
my scarfing jig. I fastened a router to the plexiglass. Hopefully the picture
clear enough that no explanation is needed. If not, let me know offline.
The picture was taken while the clamps were holding it together for the adhesive
to set....yes, I removed them before using the jig. :-)
Really worked well, made good scarfs and was quick and easy to use....
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
That black clamp looks like one that Mike Cuy was missing...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scarfing jig
Someone was talking recently about scarfing...I just ran across this picture
from my scarfing jig. I fastened a router to the plexiglass. Hopefully the
picture clear enough that no explanation is needed. If not, let me know
offline.
The picture was taken while the clamps were holding it together for the
adhesive to set....yes, I removed them before using the jig. :-)
Really worked well, made good scarfs and was quick and easy to use....
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a serios |
post
Dear friends,
As much as we tend to joke with each other and have fun poking fun back and
forth I just want to tell you in all seriousness that Jim Markle is of fine
character and personally my ribbing towards him comes from the utmost of respect
for the man and is in no way meant to degrade or lower the wonderful
efforts that Jim has made towards having a flying example of a Pietenpol Air Camper
soon someday on the grounds at Brodhead, Wisconsin. I just want you to
all
know that Jim is a fun-loving guy and the digs that I and some others have posted
toward him in recent posts are all in fun and most importantly out of our mutual
respect for Jim and when Jim's wheels touch the grass upon landing at Brodhead
we will collectivity give him a huge round of applause, a big (group hug---Jess
O/Ryan ---you
are in charge:) and be thankful for another dream come true-- my apologies if
I shed any negative light on Jim's character and long live NEW Piets at Brodhead
!
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
Mike's clamp! Ha! That's hilarious! Where did THAT come from? What a funny
bit! :-)
But guys, please, I don't mean to sound all cranky here (I have nothing but respect
for the folks on this list!) but that routine has run it's course....let's
move on.
Nothing personal Jack.
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Aug 30, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Scarfing jig
>
>
>That black clamp looks like one that Mike Cuy was missing...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
>Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:14 PM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scarfing jig
>
>Someone was talking recently about scarfing...I just ran across this picture
>from my scarfing jig. I fastened a router to the plexiglass. Hopefully the
>picture clear enough that no explanation is needed. If not, let me know
>offline.
>
>The picture was taken while the clamps were holding it together for the
>adhesive to set....yes, I removed them before using the jig. :-)
>
>Really worked well, made good scarfs and was quick and easy to use....
>
>jm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a |
serios post
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
I consider Jim a great friend, confidont and builder. If I didn't think as highly
of him and others I would not bother. I am however proud to call him my friend
and thankful that he is. A gentleman and a friend. Obviously myself included
or perhaps only in perpertrating such a prolonged and undeserved hoax I join
with mike in an apology long in coming.
John
------Original Message------
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Aug 30, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a serios
post
Dear friends,
As much as we tend to joke with each other and have fun poking fun back and
forth I just want to tell you in all seriousness that Jim Markle is of fine
character and personally my ribbing towards him comes from the utmost of respect
for the man and is in no way meant to degrade or lower the wonderful
efforts that Jim has made towards having a flying example of a Pietenpol Air Camper
soon someday on the grounds at Brodhead, Wisconsin. I just want you to
all
know that Jim is a fun-loving guy and the digs that I and some others have posted
toward him in recent posts are all in fun and most importantly out of our mutual
respect for Jim and when Jim's wheels touch the grass upon landing at Brodhead
we will collectivity give him a huge round of applause, a big (group hug---Jess
O/Ryan ---you
are in charge:) and be thankful for another dream come true-- my apologies if
I shed any negative light on Jim's character and long live NEW Piets at Brodhead
!
Mike C.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scarfing jig |
I'm sure that your scarfing jig worked well but looked a bit over
engineered for me. All I needed to do was lay the edge flush on a piece of steel,
put a pencil mark 10 to one from the edge (1/8 x 10 or 1.1/4) ,and hit it
with a hand held belt sander. It takes very little skill to make a nice
scarf out to the pencil mark. A worn out fine belt keeps things from going to
fast.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, |
a serios post
Boy, that's not what you guys said at Flynn's. And then later at
Flinagan's, you said...
Well, I guess the beer makes us say things we shouldn't...
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute |
I have only met Jim once and we only spent about 30-45
minutes together over a beer. He paid for the round.
We talked about Pietenpols and that was all that
mattered.
I like to tell people that you can judge how sincere
they are about being your friend if you envision the
scenario where you have a flat tire and are pulled
off the busy highway at night, in the rain, in slow
traffic. People are in their cars, they can clearly
see that it's you pulled over with a flat in the rain,
and you can't see past their wipers or the rain on
their windshields, so you don't know who is who if
they duck their heads and keep pushing on towards home.
I would pull over and give Jim a hand and I'll bet
most of you would, too. What about his banker, or
his accountant, or his barber, neighbor, or even
pastor? I've seen it happen in real life. A high
school coach, pulled over with a flat at night, was
swamped by dozens of his former students (all of
them now adults) as they recognized him in trouble
and stopped to help. He didn't even have to get his
hands dirty. I don't think Jim would have to, either.
He's a Pietenpol kind of guy.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
Been lurking in the shadows for a few years watching all the posts. Working
Jenny style landing gear.
What size turnbuckles did you guys use? I can't make out what the drawing on
page 14 of the manual says.
Thanks.
Roger & Austin Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute |
Yep,
All the kidding (how did this all get started?) has been fun, but Jim is one
of the guys on the list who has persevered for some time building his
Pietenpol, making good, worthwhile posts to the list, and is building a
first class Pietenpol. I'm proud to call him my friend.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute
I have only met Jim once and we only spent about 30-45
minutes together over a beer. He paid for the round.
We talked about Pietenpols and that was all that
mattered.
I like to tell people that you can judge how sincere
they are about being your friend if you envision the
scenario where you have a flat tire and are pulled
off the busy highway at night, in the rain, in slow
traffic. People are in their cars, they can clearly
see that it's you pulled over with a flat in the rain,
and you can't see past their wipers or the rain on
their windshields, so you don't know who is who if
they duck their heads and keep pushing on towards home.
I would pull over and give Jim a hand and I'll bet
most of you would, too. What about his banker, or
his accountant, or his barber, neighbor, or even
pastor? I've seen it happen in real life. A high
school coach, pulled over with a flat at night, was
swamped by dozens of his former students (all of
them now adults) as they recognized him in trouble
and stopped to help. He didn't even have to get his
hands dirty. I don't think Jim would have to, either.
He's a Pietenpol kind of guy.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
The small ones.they really don't have to have very much tension. In fact, at
Brodhead, I saw both loose and tight and all seemed to work just fine.
Here's mine:
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Davis Roger
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Been lurking in the shadows for a few years watching all the posts. Working
Jenny style landing gear.
What size turnbuckles did you guys use? I can't make out what the drawing on
page 14 of the manual says.
Thanks.
Roger & Austin Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Hi Roger,
I used the AN130-16S turnbuckle assemblies for the landing gear, the drag
and anti-drag wires, and the control cables. I used the smaller AN130-8S
turnbuckles for the tail bracing wires.
I have no idea what the manual says - for some reason I never got a maual
when I bought my plans from Don Pietenpol back in 1995.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Davis Roger
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Been lurking in the shadows for a few years watching all the posts. Working
Jenny style landing gear.
What size turnbuckles did you guys use? I can't make out what the drawing on
page 14 of the manual says.
Thanks.
Roger & Austin Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks guys, We just picked up our rims from a guy on my route. Would like
to get everything braced up and fitted on the gear so the boy can push me
around the yard! Seriously though would like to get it off of the saw horse
s
so it looks like we have made some progress. Thanks for the help.
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Jack Phillips wrot
e:
> Hi Roger,
>
>
> I used the AN130-16S turnbuckle assemblies for the landing gear, the drag
> and anti-drag wires, and the control cables. I used the smaller AN130-8S
> turnbuckles for the tail bracing wires.
>
>
> I have no idea what the manual says ' for some reason I never got a mau
al
> when I bought my plans from Don Pietenpol back in 1995.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Davis Roger
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:31 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
>
>
> Been lurking in the shadows for a few years watching all the posts. Worki
ng
> Jenny style landing gear.
> What size turnbuckles did you guys use? I can't make out what the drawing
> on page 14 of the manual says.
> Thanks.
>
> Roger & Austin Davis
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
=========
> =
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute |
Sad to say, I believe I may be or I am the culprit. Following either my
long story about fitting into or trying on Jim's Piet or by the cookie
comments I read. The more I think about it I must have been the one. Its a shame
I didn't let it die its natural death but continued with a bad joke at the
expense of a friend.
I will try to avoid the unnecessary jokes even though its against my nature
and it is certainly not intended to be at the expense of another.
Alienating a friend is just not worth it!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the
terminology of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or
326SF. In all of my searches on the internet, I have not been able to
find any reference material that either describes what these turnbuckles
are (with dimensions), or cross-references the old names to the more
modern terminology.
Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to
decipher what's on the plans?
Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should be
used with larger cables, and smaller with smaller - just wondered if
anyone had any info to share.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a |
serios po
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I am also proud to call Jim a friend and neighbor. I haven't been around here
very long, but he was one of the first to introduce himself and invite me over
for a look at this strange old wooden airplane. We didn't actually meet until
Brodhead due to scheduling conflicts, but I'm sure glad we finally did. He
was none of the dirty rotten things that Recine described him to be... although
I haven't seen my dial calipers since he was last at the hanger. LOL! jk
John... and Jim.
Hail to the Markle! HARUMPH!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260618#260618
________________________________________________________________________________
Jim Markle is a wonderful fellow. Although we had corresponded by e-mail on occasion
over the past couple of years, I met him in person for the first time at
this year's Brodhead fly-in. His word is his handshake and vice versa -- a characteristic
of all those who enjoy Pietenpol airplanes!
Fred Beseler
La Crosse, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Bill,
I have some old aircraft maintenance books (pre 1950) and took a quick look
to see what they said about turnbuckles. Unfortunately, I did not find
anything to answer you question, but I did see a chapter on splicing eyes
into cables!! HOLY COW, we have it easy! My fingers started bleeding just
reading it.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the
terminology of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or 326SF.
In all of my searches on the internet, I have not been able to find any
reference material that either describes what these turnbuckles are (with
dimensions), or cross-references the old names to the more modern
terminology.
Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to decipher
what's on the plans?
Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should be used
with larger cables, and smaller with smaller - just wondered if anyone had
any info to share.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute |
John! There are NO culprits in this group and no harm has been done! It will take
a LOT more than that to run me off....
I hope we can still keep goofing with each other (what else would Cuy have to talk
about??? oops, there I go again)...I'm not stopping. Folks in my part of
the country ONLY mess with the ones they love. Everyone else gets left alone.
I say....bring it on!
I would just respectfully ask that we keep it more off list and not so much in
this public forum...
jm in beautiful Denver...
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Aug 31, 2009 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute
Sad to say, I believe I may be or I am the culprit. Following either
my long story about fitting into or trying on Jim's Piet or
by the cookie comments I read. The more I think about it I must have
been the one. Its a shame I didn't let it die its natural death but continued
with a bad joke at the expense of a friend.
I will try to avoid the unnecessary jokes even though its against my nature
and it is certainly not intended to be at the expense of another.
Alienating a friend is just not worth it!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
Bill:
I have spent a considerable amount of time on the net and other sources looking
for a cross reference too, without any luck. It was more out of curiosity than
anything else.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
Sent: 8/31/2009 9:54:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the terminology
of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or 326SF. In all of my searches
on the internet, I have not been able to find any reference material that
either describes what these turnbuckles are (with dimensions), or cross-references
the old names to the more modern terminology.
Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to decipher what's
on the plans?
Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should be used with
larger cables, and smaller with smaller - just wondered if anyone had any info
to share.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 0235 engine report |
News good and not so good!
The guy from the repair/inspection shop called this morning on my Lycoming
0235 engine that nosed over and may or may not had a direct prop strike.
Engine case Zyglowed particle and magna fluxed Found to be good
Crank shaft, dowel and gear magna fluxed and found to be good
Valve train
Camshaft cannot be reground so that's junk
tappets may be resurfaced if put against a new cam not if put against an
reground or serviceable cam
A replacement cam is hard to find.
Lycoming cams were being built by Lycoming their shop shut down and cams
are being produced by crane cams who just closed its doors. Presently all
aviation cams for Lycoming are in short supply as rare and all being back
ordered.
The industry is awaiting FAA approval of another cam manufacturer. I made
several contact for quotes today with few replies that all indicated none a
re available. Lycoming additionally has attempted to uy back existing new
stock of tappets also.
cylinders
3 out of 4 heads showing spider cracks around sparkplug holes not good but
repairable
1 out of 4 barrel needs work but can be recoated and brought into spec
Cylinders are being sent out to Indiana tomorrow for welding and servicing.
So far the bills are mounting up but still better than 800.00 per cylinder.
This engine was according to logs, well maintained and services according
to the logs. the cam and tappets corroded due to internal moisture after
the crash so it wasn't abused or mounted on another vehicle it was neglected
during its down time.Some thing to be considered when purchasing a used
engine.
More info as it becomes available.
If anyone has a line on 0235C1B parts I am interested.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
I took the simple route, I contacted B&B for turnbuckles, he asked what
size cable I was planning on I told him 3/32 he said okay I got 25 of them. I
said send me 24 plus ends
He processed the order I received the 24 that I ordered along with the bill
and Rick got one! Works for me
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Fulmer" <tfulmer(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute |
I can only speak for one member of the "Public Forum", but I find the banter
very entertaining; it fills in the lulls between the dissemination of useful
information. Better still, we all get a good feel for who to watch out for
when we finally get to Brodhead.... Just one man's opinion.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute
John! There are NO culprits in this group and no harm has been done! It
will take a LOT more than that to run me off....
I hope we can still keep goofing with each other (what else would Cuy have
to talk about??? oops, there I go again)...I'm not stopping. Folks in my
part of the country ONLY mess with the ones they love. Everyone else gets
left alone.
I say....bring it on!
I would just respectfully ask that we keep it more off list and not so much
in this public forum...
jm in beautiful Denver...
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Aug 31, 2009 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute
Sad to say, I believe I may be or I am the culprit. Following either
my long story about fitting into or trying on Jim's Piet or
by the cookie comments I read. The more I think about it I must have
been the one. Its a shame I didn't let it die its natural death but
continued
with a bad joke at the expense of a friend.
I will try to avoid the unnecessary jokes even though its against my nature
and it is certainly not intended to be at the expense of another.
Alienating a friend is just not worth it!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
It sure didn't work for me!!
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 8/31/2009 2:39:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
I took the simple route, I contacted B&B for turnbuckles, he asked what size cable
I was planning on I told him 3/32 he said okay I got 25 of them. I said send
me 24 plus ends
He processed the order I received the 24 that I ordered along with the bill and
Rick got one! Works for me
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a |
serios post
| From: | Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com> |
About Jim Markle:
About ninety-nine percent of the people I've met in experimental aviation
and especially the Pietenpol group, are all top notch people. Without
exception, Jim Markle's name is at the top of my list of the good airplane
people I've met. *Jim is the best! *
Bill Princell -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | 0235 engine report |
John,
Have you tried Wentworth or other aircraft salvage places? You might be
able to get a good used cam from them.
Jack Phillips
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 0235 engine report
News good and not so good!
The guy from the repair/inspection shop called this morning on my Lycoming
0235 engine that nosed over and may or may not had a direct prop strike.
Engine case Zyglowed particle and magna fluxed Found to be good
Crank shaft, dowel and gear magna fluxed and found to be good
Valve train
Camshaft cannot be reground so that's junk
tappets may be resurfaced if put against a new cam not if put against an
reground or serviceable cam
A replacement cam is hard to find.
Lycoming cams were being built by Lycoming their shop shut down and cams are
being produced by crane cams who just closed its doors. Presently all
aviation cams for Lycoming are in short supply as rare and all being back
ordered.
The industry is awaiting FAA approval of another cam manufacturer. I made
several contact for quotes today with few replies that all indicated none
are available. Lycoming additionally has attempted to uy back existing new
stock of tappets also.
cylinders
3 out of 4 heads showing spider cracks around sparkplug holes not good but
repairable
1 out of 4 barrel needs work but can be recoated and brought into spec
Cylinders are being sent out to Indiana tomorrow for welding and servicing.
So far the bills are mounting up but still better than 800.00 per cylinder.
This engine was according to logs, well maintained and services according to
the logs. the cam and tappets corroded due to internal moisture after the
crash so it wasn't abused or mounted on another vehicle it was neglected
during its down time.Some thing to be considered when purchasing a used
engine.
More info as it becomes available.
If anyone has a line on 0235C1B parts I am interested.
John
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 0235 engine report |
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
Their is a small company in Richland, Ia that deals in aircraft engines. I
ran that UPS route several times. Not sure exactky what all they have or if
they would even have anything that you could use, but here is their info.
Roger
Hanco Inc.
30847 323rd Ave.
Richland, Iowa 52585
319-456-6028
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 1:50 PM, wrote:
> News good and not so good!
>
> The guy from the repair/inspection shop called this morning on my Lycoming
> 0235 engine that nosed over and may or may not had a direct prop strike.
>
> Engine case Zyglowed particle and magna fluxed Found to be good
> Crank shaft, dowel and gear magna fluxed and found to be good
>
> Valve train
>
> Camshaft cannot be reground so that's junk
> tappets may be resurfaced if put against a new cam not if put against an
> reground or serviceable cam
> A replacement cam is hard to find.
>
> Lycoming cams were being built by Lycoming their shop shut down and cams
> are being produced by crane cams who just closed its doors. Presently all
> aviation cams for Lycoming are in short supply as rare and all being back
> ordered.
>
> The industry is awaiting FAA approval of another cam manufacturer. I made
> several contact for quotes today with few replies that all indicated none
> are available. Lycoming additionally has attempted to uy back existing new
> stock of tappets also.
>
>
> cylinders
>
> 3 out of 4 heads showing spider cracks around sparkplug holes not good but
> repairable
> 1 out of 4 barrel needs work but can be recoated and brought into spec
>
> Cylinders are being sent out to Indiana tomorrow for welding and servicing.
>
> So far the bills are mounting up but still better than 800.00 per cylinder.
>
> This engine was according to logs, well maintained and services according
> to the logs. the cam and tappets corroded due to internal moisture after the
> crash so it wasn't abused or mounted on another vehicle it was neglected
> during its down time.Some thing to be considered when purchasing a used
> engine.
>
> More info as it becomes available.
>
> If anyone has a line on 0235C1B parts I am interested.
>
> John
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0235 engine report |
Jack,
Thanks. I was under the impression form their web site that they only did
airframe stuff but I will check other salvage yards. I sent out a ton of e
mail request for quotes today so it will be interesting to find what the
results look like. Right now things are not looking that good but its only
been a few hours of search.
That's not to say if anyone has a line on something or runs upon a hanger
mate or a guy in passing on a street corner with a cam in his pocket, I am
all ears.
Hey fella is that a cam in your pock or you're just happy to ?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a |
serios post
He'g got a stupendous character! The world agree on that.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bill Princell wrote:
> About Jim Markle:
>
> About ninety-nine percent of the people I've met in experimental
> aviation and especially the Pietenpol group, are all top notch
> people. Without exception, Jim Markle's name is at the top of my
> list of the good airplane people I've met. Jim is the best!
>
> Bill Princell -
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
I bought my fabric from Wicks. You have to shop carefully for the 1.7
oz stuff because you need it wide enough to fit the span of the wing,
and some is too narrow. I bought 37 yards at $5.25 a yard, Wicks part
#SF104ANON. I have some fabric left over, but not an excessive amount.
I was able to do the whole thing with one gallon of Stewart Ecobond, and
I got that from aircraft spruce. I bought a nice rib stitch needle for
around $12, and used that on my tail surfaces, then lost it before I
needed it for the wings. I was able to make one out of a 1 foot piece
of 1/8 inch brass rod that I bought at Ace Hardware.
In case you are interested, I got my surface tapes from ACS
1 roll of 1 inch, used that on the turtle deck stringers
4 rolls of 2 inch
1 roll of 3 inch
1 roll of 4 inch
You need at least 30 inspection rings, at least I used that many, but
only plan to open up some of the holes. I ordered 60 drain grommets,
but have some left over.
To answer the other question about paint. I used Sherwin Williams on my
wing and tail surfaces. I bought a primer-gray tint in flat for the
base coats, then sprayed on the color on the stabilizer and one wing,
then had to buy another gallon, which I couldn't get to spray for love
of money. I was using a regular HVLP gun. I ended up brushing the last
coat of color on, using a Buff colored gloss that cost about
$40/gallon. It left brush strokes, not quite as nice as the ones on
Gary Bell's Piet that you are probably referring to from Brodhead (Blue
and Orange?)
For the Fuselage, I went to an automotive paint store and bought a quart
of a red that I picked from their color charts, with the hardener, then
went to Home Depot and had them mix a gallon of Behr gloss latex to
match, and they did a good job. This stuff sprayed on pretty nice.
One problem you will probably find with the Stewart glue and Latex
paint, is you get little whiskers sticking up on the edges of your
surface tapes that really need to be lightly sanded down between coats.
I'm accustomed to painting cars where you can lay 3 or 4 coats down in
an afternoon. With the latex it is best to wait for each coat to dry
and hit it lightly with sandpaper between coats.
The lightweight fabric I used has an ID stamp every few feet along one
edge that is helpful to show you that you have enough paint on the keep
out the UV. I just put on enough of the base coat until you couldn't
see it anymore.
In all I used 1-1/2 gallons of the Gray flat Base, Almost 2 gallons of
the Buff gloss paint on the wings and Stabilizer, and nearly the full
gallon of red on the fuselage and rudder.
I live way down in Florida, so you aren't likely to see me in Brodhead
any time soon, but if I can get this thing finished, maybe I'll make it
to Sun-n-Fun next spring!
Ben Charvet
Rick Holland wrote:
> How many yards of fabric did it take to cover your Piet? I plan on
> using 1.7 weight uncertified fabric, use the Stuart Systems stuff to
> stick it on and Latex paint. I talked to the guy that built one of the
> Corvair Piets at Broadhead this year(he was there with his Son and I
> don't remember his name), after looking at his Piet I assumed it had a
> really good doped paint job. It is a Latex paint job and here's how he
> finished it:
>
> - four cross-coats with latex primer (one coat painted vertically and
> allowed to dry, then one painted horizontally, dry and repeat)
> - four cross-coats with Satin Exterior Latex
>
> I created a test panel that I painted with Gloss Latex 5 years ago and
> screwed to a post outside and it still looks like new but it does have
> brush marks that can still be seen. I think one way to avoid brush
> marks is to use Satin rather than Gloss or High Gloss Latex (and it
> will look like an old fashion doped job but with better durability and
> lower cost).
>
> Anyhow if anyone has recently purchased fabic and found a place with a
> good price please let me know.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0235 engine report |
Thanks for the direction to Henco, just got off the phone with the woman
there and what a delight to chat with, the guy in the know in on the road but
she promises he will call me back.
Even if it goes nowhere , what a pleasure to talk to!
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a |
serios post
We're all snowflakes.How about a group hug?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute,
a serios post
He'g got a stupendous character! The world agree on that.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bill Princell wrote:
About Jim Markle:
About ninety-nine percent of the people I've met in experimental aviation
and especially the Pietenpol group, are all top notch people. Without
exception, Jim Markle's name is at the top of my list of the good airplane
people I've met. Jim is the best!
Bill Princell -
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute |
| From: | Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> |
I agree, as I too have no life but must enjoy the banter through the lives
of those that can actually work on their projects at this time...
I will hopefully meet a few of you in Lincoln this month at the West Coast
Piet Jaw fest...
Mark
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Tim Fulmer wrote:
>
> I can only speak for one member of the "Public Forum", but I find the
> banter
> very entertaining; it fills in the lulls between the dissemination of
> useful
> information. Better still, we all get a good feel for who to watch out for
> when we finally get to Brodhead.... Just one man's opinion.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute
>
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> John! There are NO culprits in this group and no harm has been done! It
> will take a LOT more than that to run me off....
>
> I hope we can still keep goofing with each other (what else would Cuy have
> to talk about??? oops, there I go again)...I'm not stopping. Folks in my
> part of the country ONLY mess with the ones they love. Everyone else gets
> left alone.
>
> I say....bring it on!
>
> I would just respectfully ask that we keep it more off list and not so much
> in this public forum...
>
> jm in beautiful Denver...
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
>
> Sent: Aug 31, 2009 8:47 AM
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle- just for a minute
>
>
> Sad to say, I believe I may be or I am the culprit. Following either
> my long story about fitting into or trying on Jim's Piet or
> by the cookie comments I read. The more I think about it I must have
> been the one. Its a shame I didn't let it die its natural death but
> continued
> with a bad joke at the expense of a friend.
>
> I will try to avoid the unnecessary jokes even though its against my nature
> and it is certainly not intended to be at the expense of another.
> Alienating a friend is just not worth it!
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Almost time to start covering this thing |
Nice report, Ben. Thanks! Don't be bashful about sending pics...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost time to start covering this thing
I bought my fabric from Wicks. You have to shop carefully for the 1.7
oz stuff because you need it wide enough to fit the span of the wing,
and some is too narrow. I bought 37 yards at $5.25 a yard, Wicks part
#SF104ANON. I have some fabric left over, but not an excessive amount.
I was able to do the whole thing with one gallon of Stewart Ecobond, and
I got that from aircraft spruce. I bought a nice rib stitch needle for
around $12, and used that on my tail surfaces, then lost it before I
needed it for the wings. I was able to make one out of a 1 foot piece
of 1/8 inch brass rod that I bought at Ace Hardware.
In case you are interested, I got my surface tapes from ACS
1 roll of 1 inch, used that on the turtle deck stringers
4 rolls of 2 inch
1 roll of 3 inch
1 roll of 4 inch
You need at least 30 inspection rings, at least I used that many, but
only plan to open up some of the holes. I ordered 60 drain grommets,
but have some left over.
To answer the other question about paint. I used Sherwin Williams on my
wing and tail surfaces. I bought a primer-gray tint in flat for the
base coats, then sprayed on the color on the stabilizer and one wing,
then had to buy another gallon, which I couldn't get to spray for love
of money. I was using a regular HVLP gun. I ended up brushing the last
coat of color on, using a Buff colored gloss that cost about
$40/gallon. It left brush strokes, not quite as nice as the ones on
Gary Bell's Piet that you are probably referring to from Brodhead (Blue
and Orange?)
For the Fuselage, I went to an automotive paint store and bought a quart
of a red that I picked from their color charts, with the hardener, then
went to Home Depot and had them mix a gallon of Behr gloss latex to
match, and they did a good job. This stuff sprayed on pretty nice.
One problem you will probably find with the Stewart glue and Latex
paint, is you get little whiskers sticking up on the edges of your
surface tapes that really need to be lightly sanded down between coats.
I'm accustomed to painting cars where you can lay 3 or 4 coats down in
an afternoon. With the latex it is best to wait for each coat to dry
and hit it lightly with sandpaper between coats.
The lightweight fabric I used has an ID stamp every few feet along one
edge that is helpful to show you that you have enough paint on the keep
out the UV. I just put on enough of the base coat until you couldn't
see it anymore.
In all I used 1-1/2 gallons of the Gray flat Base, Almost 2 gallons of
the Buff gloss paint on the wings and Stabilizer, and nearly the full
gallon of red on the fuselage and rudder.
I live way down in Florida, so you aren't likely to see me in Brodhead
any time soon, but if I can get this thing finished, maybe I'll make it
to Sun-n-Fun next spring!
Ben Charvet
Rick Holland wrote:
> How many yards of fabric did it take to cover your Piet? I plan on
> using 1.7 weight uncertified fabric, use the Stuart Systems stuff to
> stick it on and Latex paint. I talked to the guy that built one of the
> Corvair Piets at Broadhead this year(he was there with his Son and I
> don't remember his name), after looking at his Piet I assumed it had a
> really good doped paint job. It is a Latex paint job and here's how he
> finished it:
>
> - four cross-coats with latex primer (one coat painted vertically and
> allowed to dry, then one painted horizontally, dry and repeat)
> - four cross-coats with Satin Exterior Latex
>
> I created a test panel that I painted with Gloss Latex 5 years ago and
> screwed to a post outside and it still looks like new but it does have
> brush marks that can still be seen. I think one way to avoid brush
> marks is to use Satin rather than Gloss or High Gloss Latex (and it
> will look like an old fashion doped job but with better durability and
> lower cost).
>
> Anyhow if anyone has recently purchased fabic and found a place with a
> good price please let me know.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | 0235 engine report |
It's a worthy goal, John.we're all pulling for you! With that much hp you'll
be flying a rocket sled!....H'mmm...Rocket Man...what king of logo would
that make?
If you Google "Rocket Man" just don't play the William Shatner
version..you've been duly warned.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 0235 engine report
Thanks for the direction to Henco, just got off the phone with the woman
there and what a delight to chat with, the guy in the know in on the road
but she promises he will call me back.
Even if it goes nowhere , what a pleasure to talk to!
Thanks
John
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute, a |
serios post
I'M GONNA PUKE! Can't we go back to the way it was...?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute,
a serios post
We're all snowflakes.How about a group hug?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol friend Jim Markle -just for a minute,
a serios post
He'g got a stupendous character! The world agree on that.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Aug 31, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bill Princell wrote:
About Jim Markle:
About ninety-nine percent of the people I've met in experimental aviation
and especially the Pietenpol group, are all top notch people. Without
exception, Jim Markle's name is at the top of my list of the good airplane
people I've met. Jim is the best!
Bill Princell -
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lee Bottom Flyin |
I was wondering who from the list was planning on attending the "Wood, Fabric and Tailwheels" flyin at Lee Bottom Indiana the end of September. I know that Mike Cuy is going and my Wife and I are also going, but is there any one else? For those that don't know about the flyin it is a very friendly, grassroots event the last weekend in September. They typically get 400 to 450 planes in for the weekend. The airport is a 4000 foot grass strip along the Ohio river, just west of Madison, Indiana. Next to Brodhead this is probably my most favorite flyin of the year. Here is a link to the flyin http://www.leebottom.com/event_schedule.htm
If you have not been to the flyin before, its really a great time. Lots of wood
and fabric taildraggers and great people. Rich and Ginger Davidson, who own the
airport and put the flyin on are also great people. The flyin is listed as
a one day event ...Saturday, September 26, 2009, but many come in on Friday and
leave on Sunday. If you don't want to camp, transportation to local hotels is
provided. Food will be provided from Friday evening through the weekend.
Rick Schreiber
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
Well, that just answered about 5 questions I've been wrestling with for weeks.
And a couple I would have had (the whiskers) coming up.
thanks Ben!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Aug 31, 2009 3:16 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Almost time to start covering this thing
>
>
>I bought my fabric from Wicks. You have to shop carefully for the 1.7
>oz stuff because you need it wide enough to fit the span of the wing,
>and some is too narrow. I bought 37 yards at $5.25 a yard, Wicks part
>#SF104ANON. I have some fabric left over, but not an excessive amount.
>I was able to do the whole thing with one gallon of Stewart Ecobond, and
>I got that from aircraft spruce. I bought a nice rib stitch needle for
>around $12, and used that on my tail surfaces, then lost it before I
>needed it for the wings. I was able to make one out of a 1 foot piece
>of 1/8 inch brass rod that I bought at Ace Hardware.
>
>In case you are interested, I got my surface tapes from ACS
>
>1 roll of 1 inch, used that on the turtle deck stringers
>4 rolls of 2 inch
>1 roll of 3 inch
>1 roll of 4 inch
>
>You need at least 30 inspection rings, at least I used that many, but
>only plan to open up some of the holes. I ordered 60 drain grommets,
>but have some left over.
>
>To answer the other question about paint. I used Sherwin Williams on my
>wing and tail surfaces. I bought a primer-gray tint in flat for the
>base coats, then sprayed on the color on the stabilizer and one wing,
>then had to buy another gallon, which I couldn't get to spray for love
>of money. I was using a regular HVLP gun. I ended up brushing the last
>coat of color on, using a Buff colored gloss that cost about
>$40/gallon. It left brush strokes, not quite as nice as the ones on
>Gary Bell's Piet that you are probably referring to from Brodhead (Blue
>and Orange?)
>
>For the Fuselage, I went to an automotive paint store and bought a quart
>of a red that I picked from their color charts, with the hardener, then
>went to Home Depot and had them mix a gallon of Behr gloss latex to
>match, and they did a good job. This stuff sprayed on pretty nice.
>
>One problem you will probably find with the Stewart glue and Latex
>paint, is you get little whiskers sticking up on the edges of your
>surface tapes that really need to be lightly sanded down between coats.
>I'm accustomed to painting cars where you can lay 3 or 4 coats down in
>an afternoon. With the latex it is best to wait for each coat to dry
>and hit it lightly with sandpaper between coats.
>
>The lightweight fabric I used has an ID stamp every few feet along one
>edge that is helpful to show you that you have enough paint on the keep
>out the UV. I just put on enough of the base coat until you couldn't
>see it anymore.
>
>In all I used 1-1/2 gallons of the Gray flat Base, Almost 2 gallons of
>the Buff gloss paint on the wings and Stabilizer, and nearly the full
>gallon of red on the fuselage and rudder.
>
>I live way down in Florida, so you aren't likely to see me in Brodhead
>any time soon, but if I can get this thing finished, maybe I'll make it
>to Sun-n-Fun next spring!
>
>Ben Charvet
>
>
>Rick Holland wrote:
>> How many yards of fabric did it take to cover your Piet? I plan on
>> using 1.7 weight uncertified fabric, use the Stuart Systems stuff to
>> stick it on and Latex paint. I talked to the guy that built one of the
>> Corvair Piets at Broadhead this year(he was there with his Son and I
>> don't remember his name), after looking at his Piet I assumed it had a
>> really good doped paint job. It is a Latex paint job and here's how he
>> finished it:
>>
>> - four cross-coats with latex primer (one coat painted vertically and
>> allowed to dry, then one painted horizontally, dry and repeat)
>> - four cross-coats with Satin Exterior Latex
>>
>> I created a test panel that I painted with Gloss Latex 5 years ago and
>> screwed to a post outside and it still looks like new but it does have
>> brush marks that can still be seen. I think one way to avoid brush
>> marks is to use Satin rather than Gloss or High Gloss Latex (and it
>> will look like an old fashion doped job but with better durability and
>> lower cost).
>>
>> Anyhow if anyone has recently purchased fabic and found a place with a
>> good price please let me know.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> --
>> Rick Holland
>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>>
>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Almost time to start covering this thing |
You are SO RIGHT Ben Charvet about watching how wide the fabric rolls are if you
want to use the 'overlap' method of covering
your wings. (otherwise you need to have an envelope sewn together to make the
narrower rolls fit)
Superflite carried the 1.7 oz stuff in the widest width so I went with them for
my fabric and glue--the rest was finished in Randolph dope.
Another savings-- we don't need the PMA certified stamp on our fabric (plus it
all comes from the same mill no matter who you buy
fabric from) so Superflite (used to anyway) carry the uncertified wide stuff
for less than the factory built plane guys who need
the certified fabric.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
For those who maybe interested, here is a link to the Lee Bottom flyin the end of next month. The link has some videos of Mike Cuys piet as well as some of my Short Wing Piper friends who attend... enjoy http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=59bb607d-d455-4a0a-9b15-f81798603473
Rick Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Southern Indiana-- Hanover, IN Lee Bottom Flying Field |
Fly In
Also pictured in the video post that Richard mentioned was another Pietenpo
l from northern IN built by
a very nice gent by the name of R.T. Searfoss and his wife. I believe th
ey live near Goshen, IN.
RT and his wife built a Cont. powered Piet and flew down last fall and I go
t to visit with them a bit. Most camp on
the airport but some bus-it into nearby towns and motels or stay at a beaut
iful state park lodge in nearby Madison, IN.
Photo of RT's airplane attached.
Mike C.
http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=59bb607d-d455-4a0a-9b15-f817986
03473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Southern Indiana-- Hanover, IN Lee Bottom Flying Field |
Wow... those are some kinda boarding steps R.T.'s got on his Piet!
While building the mechanical brakes for my Flying Squirrel, I
worried a great deal about having the brake cables out where the
grass or brush could snag them, but R.T. seems not to be worried
about that at all. His brake cables have large loops in them,
hanging out in the breeze.
I ended up welding short sections of steel tube to the trailing
edge of my landing gear legs to thread the brake cables down
through, keeping them secure and out of harm's way. I anticipate
flying where the grass can grow up a little ways.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Scratch one GN-1 |
Listers-
-
A newly wrecked GN-1 showed up at our ariport on a trailer and I was wonder
ing if anyone knew anything about it. The data plate shows that it was buil
t by Robert Squires from Ovilia, TX.
-
The interesting thing about it is that everything on the airplane was certi
fied! Engine, instruments, prop etc. The BAD thing is that the hobbs showed
8 hrs. One wing is broken in half about 6' from the c.s.and the engine mou
nt is bent. One of the mounting lugs on the engine case is sheared and-th
e left-LG leg is bent up pretty badly. The prop has BOTH blades broken of
f about 10" from the hub which would indicate to me that it was turning up
when things went awry.
-
Anyway, if anyone knows Mr. Squires or what happened, my idle curiousity wo
uld like to know the details. It looks like there was a bucket-load of gree
nbacks and a whole lot of TLC dumped into the project for only getting 8 hr
s in return!
-
Larry=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Almost time to start covering this thing |
Jim, do you have a schedule or start date in mind? I have not been to any
of the covering seminars yet but would like to see yours mid way or in
progress of covering to get an idea of how its posta be did. So I can did mines
the right way to.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | stephen labash <slabash(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Any one have any thoughts on where to "beg borrow or steal" empennage plans
using tubing for Pietenpol. I have Nieupirt 17 plans but the empennage lo
oks quite different. Thanks Big Steve
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL
:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Heads up. I been getting e mails all day through my facebook. It appears the virus
rades send you to a bogus youtube site for a video. when you go to the link,
it raids your friend list and generates an e mail from you to your friends
sending the to the youtube site. Continuing the cycle. So don't go! Its taken
all day to get clear.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | more on the engine the saga continues |
Welp
Found me a yellow tagged cam shaft in Texas and tappet cores. Now waiting
for the cost part of the news. it all seems to be progressing. now its a
matter of finding out how many tappet cores I need to buy have surfaced and
made ready for use. I suppose it all about the bucks and the lucks.
The more lucks you got the less bucks you need, the less lucks the more
bucks. Since I got neither its all up in the air. Unless the bucks and the
lucks run out at the same time then the fan stops and its all down from there!
Stay tuned to the next thrill packed episode of lucks bucks and things that
bump in the front!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scratch one GN-1 |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Larry,
'Jeremy in dallas' posted the link to the news article of the event a little
while back:
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa090624_wz_elliscocrash.f89d3b.html
Not that it gives much info, but there is a pic of the GN and how she came
to rest. That prop will be one heck of a wall hanging.....
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
> Listers-
>
> A newly wrecked GN-1 showed up at our ariport on a trailer and I was
> wondering if anyone knew anything about it. The data plate shows that it was
> built by Robert Squires from Ovilia, TX.
>
> The interesting thing about it is that everything on the airplane was
> certified! Engine, instruments, prop etc. The BAD thing is that the hobbs
> showed 8 hrs. One wing is broken in half about 6' from the c.s.and the
> engine mount is bent. One of the mounting lugs on the engine case is sheared
> and the left LG leg is bent up pretty badly. The prop has BOTH blades broken
> off about 10" from the hub which would indicate to me that it was turning up
> when things went awry.
>
> Anyway, if anyone knows Mr. Squires or what happened, my idle curiousity
> would like to know the details. It looks like there was a bucket-load of
> greenbacks and a whole lot of TLC dumped into the project for only getting 8
> hrs in return!
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Southern Indiana-- Hanover, IN Lee Bottom Flying Field |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Oscar,
Funny, but I didn't even notice those boarding steps until you pointed
them out.
Now they really stand out. The rear one especially doesn't look like it
gives much advantage over standing on the ground.
And the brake cables really do stick out. I would imagine that when
faced with a 60 - 70 mph wind (when in flight), they must fold right
back, and might even whip around in the wind.
Strange that I didn't notice either of those things when I looked at the
photo the first time. Actually, I've seen other photos of this plane
before, and never noticed those things before.
Just goes to show that if you make everything else look really nice, you
can make some things "invisible".
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch one GN-1 |
Ask and ye shall receive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 1, 2009, at 3:45 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
> Listers-
>
> A newly wrecked GN-1 showed up at our ariport on a trailer and I was
> wondering if anyone knew anything about it. The data plate shows
> that it was built by Robert Squires from Ovilia, TX.
>
> The interesting thing about it is that everything on the airplane
> was certified! Engine, instruments, prop etc. The BAD thing is that
> the hobbs showed 8 hrs. One wing is broken in half about 6' from the
> c.s.and the engine mount is bent. One of the mounting lugs on the
> engine case is sheared and the left LG leg is bent up pretty badly.
> The prop has BOTH blades broken off about 10" from the hub which
> would indicate to me that it was turning up when things went awry.
>
> Anyway, if anyone knows Mr. Squires or what happened, my idle
> curiousity would like to know the details. It looks like there was a
> bucket-load of greenbacks and a whole lot of TLC dumped into the
> project for only getting 8 hrs in return!
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Scratch one GN-1 |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Just did a quick web search and came up with the following:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation/CEN09CA383/423099.pdf
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation/CEN09CA383/423100.pdf
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=65963
http://www.aigaviation.com/aviationsalvage/salvagedetail.aspx?faano=N17
3
6
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 090624X51919&key=1
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Scratch one GN-1
Listers-
A newly wrecked GN-1 showed up at our ariport on a trailer and I was
wondering if anyone knew anything about it. The data plate shows that it
was built by Robert Squires from Ovilia, TX.
The interesting thing about it is that everything on the airplane was
certified! Engine, instruments, prop etc. The BAD thing is that the
hobbs showed 8 hrs. One wing is broken in half about 6' from the c.s.and
the engine mount is bent. One of the mounting lugs on the engine case is
sheared and the left LG leg is bent up pretty badly. The prop has BOTH
blades broken off about 10" from the hub which would indicate to me that
it was turning up when things went awry.
Anyway, if anyone knows Mr. Squires or what happened, my idle curiousity
would like to know the details. It looks like there was a bucket-load of
greenbacks and a whole lot of TLC dumped into the project for only
getting 8 hrs in return!
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
Shad, I seem to remember that you had carb heat muffs that extended out the side
of the cowling. Is that correct and if so , how do they work? FAA recomends
that you should get a 95degree temp drop. Could you please send me a picture.
I am thinking of just using plenum air for the intake.--Corvair powered., and
marvel carb. and last step before paperwork and inspection. cheers, Gardiner
Mason
co
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:20:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress tools
I believe the nicopress tool dad bought is from cleveland telephone Co. As long
as the tool has a go/no go gauge use it. The nicco press was designed 1st for
the pole line industry. If you have any questions about the integrity I will
happily do some destructive testing, tractor pull style. I think I have some
shrubs to pull out any how, and the old Allis Chalmers needs a work out.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scratch one GN-1 |
It looks like it's for sale, too.. (if this is the same plane)
PIETENPOL GN-1 PROJECT =A2 $1,500 =A2 AVAILABLE FOR SALE
=A2 Destroyed
left wing, good fuselage, tail, with logs, no engine or instruments.
=A2 Contact Don Adamson- 92ND WEST AVIATION, INClocated Lonoke, AR
USA
=A2 Telephone: 501-676-7529 =A2 Posted September 1, 2009
=A2 Show all
Ads posted by this Advertiser =A2 Recommend This Ad to a Friend
=A2Email Advertiser =A2 Save to Watchlist =A2 Report
This Ad
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Sep 1, 2009, at 5:35 PM, John Hofmann
wrote:
> Ask and ye shall receive.
>
>
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
> Madison, WI 53718
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Sep 1, 2009, at 3:45 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
>
>> Listers-
>>
>> A newly wrecked GN-1 showed up at our ariport on a trailer and I
>> was wondering if anyone knew anything about it. The data plate
>> shows that it was built by Robert Squires from Ovilia, TX.
>>
>> The interesting thing about it is that everything on the airplane
>> was certified! Engine, instruments, prop etc. The BAD thing is that
>> the hobbs showed 8 hrs. One wing is broken in half about 6' from
>> the c.s.and the engine mount is bent. One of the mounting lugs on
>> the engine case is sheared and the left LG leg is bent up pretty
>> badly. The prop has BOTH blades broken off about 10" from the hub
>> which would indicate to me that it was turning up when things went
>> awry.
>>
>> Anyway, if anyone knows Mr. Squires or what happened, my idle
>> curiousity would like to know the details. It looks like there was
>> a bucket-load of greenbacks and a whole lot of TLC dumped into the
>> project for only getting 8 hrs in return!
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Gardiner,
Until Shad can supply better shots, here are a couple pics to tide you over:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Gary%20Bell/Brodhead2008_043.JPG
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Gary%20Bell/Brodhead2008_045.JPG
As I recall, the 'muff' is a curved piece of metal welded on to the exhaust
pipe, with the end welded closed. The air comes in the front, which is left
open, picks up heat off of the exhaust pipe, and the conveys the heated air
through the SCAT tubing to the carb heat box. Obviously Shad can fill you in
on the effectiveness and all...that's just what I recall about the basic
setup.
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:48 PM, airlion wrote:
> Shad, I seem to remember that you had carb heat muffs that extended out the
> side of the cowling. Is that correct and if so , how do they work? FAA
> recomends that you should get a 95degree temp drop. Could you please send me
> a picture. I am thinking of just using plenum air for the intake.--Corvair
> powered., and marvel carb. and last step before paperwork and inspection.
> cheers, Gardiner Mason
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | RT Searfoss Pietenpol |
RT brought his Pietenpol to Brodhead in 2007. It was there for all to inspect
and enjoy. He has some innovative ideas on his
plane and like Jack Phillips-- his wife actually flies with him to some fly-in's
and events. Imagine that ?
Mike C.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Church [eng(at)canadianrogers.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Southern Indiana-- Hanover, IN Lee Bottom Flying Field
Oscar,
Funny, but I didn't even notice those boarding steps until you pointed them out.
Now they really stand out. The rear one especially doesn't look like it gives much
advantage over standing on the ground.
And the brake cables really do stick out. I would imagine that when faced with
a 60 - 70 mph wind (when in flight), they must fold right back, and might even
whip around in the wind.
Strange that I didn't notice either of those things when I looked at the photo
the first time. Actually, I've seen other photos of this plane before, and never
noticed those things before.
Just goes to show that if you make everything else look really nice, you can make
some things "invisible".
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
A'hem....and, John, just what was the lead to that YouTube site that
interested you so much...nevermind...I don't think I want to know. I prefer
to think of you as pure in mind, body and soul!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Virus
Heads up. I been getting e mails all day through my facebook. It appears the
virus rades send you to a bogus youtube site for a video. when you go to
the link, it raids your friend list and generates an e mail from you to your
friends sending the to the youtube site. Continuing the cycle. So don't go!
Its taken all day to get clear.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Ya had to ask didn't ya. Well ill tell ya. I got an email from a friend on face
book that advertised a video of his. My being the curious type and a video by
a trusted and long time friend I accepted his invitation and went to the site
for download. EHhhhh wrong choice. virus time ding ding ding ding I won.
Being the benevolent and inquisitive soul that I am conducted an exhaustive in
depth search on behalf of my friends found the problem,solved and solved. Then
posted the warning to protect the systems of my good,highly respected friends
which you and others are the benefactors of my lone peril.
You're welcome!
John
------Original Message------
From: Gary Boothe
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 1, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Virus
A'hem....and, John, just what was the lead to that YouTube site that
interested you so much...nevermind...I don't think I want to know. I prefer
to think of you as pure in mind, body and soul!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Virus
Heads up. I been getting e mails all day through my facebook. It appears the
virus rades send you to a bogus youtube site for a video. when you go to
the link, it raids your friend list and generates an e mail from you to your
friends sending the to the youtube site. Continuing the cycle. So don't go!
Its taken all day to get clear.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
That's pretty similar to the setup I have. I would say performance is
marginal, at best. I have a number of steel vanes welded in place within
the muff to increase the heat transfer area. If you were on the list back
in 2004 when I first flew my Piet you may recall that I had a forced landing
due to the carb heat system. I had added some stainless steel wool in the
heat muff to increase heat transfer and thought it was secured. It wasn't,
and got sucked into the carburetor in flight, choking the engine and
reducing power below the amount required to sustain level flight.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:45 PM
Subject: Bell's carb heat muff, was Re: Pietenpol-List: Nicopress tools
Gardiner,
Until Shad can supply better shots, here are a couple pics to tide you over:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Gary%20Bell/Brodhead2008_043.JPG
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Gary%20Bell/Brodhead2008_045.JPG
As I recall, the 'muff' is a curved piece of metal welded on to the exhaust
pipe, with the end welded closed. The air comes in the front, which is left
open, picks up heat off of the exhaust pipe, and the conveys the heated air
through the SCAT tubing to the carb heat box. Obviously Shad can fill you in
on the effectiveness and all...that's just what I recall about the basic
setup.
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 5:48 PM, airlion wrote:
Shad, I seem to remember that you had carb heat muffs that extended out the
side of the cowling. Is that correct and if so , how do they work? FAA
recomends that you should get a 95degree temp drop. Could you please send me
a picture. I am thinking of just using plenum air for the intake.--Corvair
powered., and marvel carb. and last step before paperwork and inspection.
cheers, Gardiner Mason
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Big Steve,
Why are you looking at Nieuport plans to build a Pietenpol?
And, more importantly, why are you surprised that the empennage looks "quite different"?
To the best of my knowledge, there are no published plans for the Pietenpol empennage
built of steel tubing (or any other kind of tubing, for that matter). I'd
say you're on your own there. Which is not to say that people have not built
their empennage out of steel tube, because they have. I'm just saying that they
all did it without the use of published plans.
Good luck with your Nieuportenpol!
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260941#260941
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nieuport_17_143.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpolaircamper_112.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
correctly.
Russell
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
> Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
> chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
> U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
> problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
> and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
>
> There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws a
> bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
> 'passing' nico squeezes.
>
> Mike C.
>
> PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
> and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
> seconds
> to see if you've got a good press or not.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
Hey Steve!
Just get ahold of some GN-1 plans! A steel tube Pietenpol of sorts!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Church
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: empennage plans using tubing
Big Steve,
Why are you looking at Nieuport plans to build a Pietenpol?
And, more importantly, why are you surprised that the empennage looks "quite
different"?
To the best of my knowledge, there are no published plans for the Pietenpol
empennage built of steel tubing (or any other kind of tubing, for that
matter). I'd say you're on your own there. Which is not to say that people
have not built their empennage out of steel tube, because they have. I'm
just saying that they all did it without the use of published plans.
Good luck with your Nieuportenpol!
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260941#260941
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/nieuport_17_143.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpolaircamper_112.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools |
I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
Rodney Hall
---- Robert Ray wrote:
> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
> correctly.
>
> Russell
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> Corporation] wrote:
>
> > Aerospace Corporation]"
> >
> >
> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
> >
> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws a
> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
> >
> > Mike C.
> >
> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
> > seconds
> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | saying goodbye to my uncle - off topic |
Tomorrow I attend the funeral of the man who introduced me to aviation. Wh
en I was a kid I was at a family reunion in Osceola=2C WI and my uncle Ed o
ffered to take me for a ride in his airplane. I was about 13-14 years old
and had friend of mine with me. We both went in his rented Cherokee 140 al
ong with my other uncle Bob. I had never flown before and I remember seein
g a twin engine fly low over the field and how amazed I was. My uncle gave
me that first flight years ago and I never forgot. Just a few years ago
=2C I returned the favor. I flew out to Osceola and gave him probably his
last ride. At the time I was renting - what else - a Cherokee 140. He die
d this weekend and I can't stop thinking about how he gave me my first flig
ht. I hope we can all be so generous with family and friends. I enjoyed w
atching Greg Cardinal give children rides at Brodhead. This is where flyin
g needs to return to. Anyway=2C I'll miss uncle Ed. We didn't have much i
n common except for flying=2C but that's all we needed. I wish someday he
could have seen my Pietenpol flying=2C but it gives me motivation so that o
thers in the family can see it someday.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Yes I would not try arobatics in a Pie, the Grega plan shows using
3/32 mahogany on the outside all the way down the sides,
then on the inside it specifics 1/8 inch birch, I tested the birch
I soaked the birch in the bath tub four days and night's(sounds biblical)
it is not sold as marine but it is all birch, no knots no pin knots,
no voids ot gaps, after soaking I destroyed a piece it failed in the wood
not in the glue line, this settles it I will use it, purchased this at 20
dollars
a sheet at north west woods in INDY if any one is interested
in this baltic birch. I bought several sheets of 1/8 and some 1/4.
I would suggest you conduct your own test to your satisfaction.
I will also soak the gussets completely submurged in epoxy while it
is warm and thin. Then I'll put a paste mixture of silica and epoxy
in the glue joint pre soaking both wood and gusset this should conclude any
doubts about the glue line ebing water proof in my mind. It it was
a sail boat I would use marine.
Russell
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote:
>
> The thickness of the gussets in the Flitzer's wings are not what makes it
> more capable of handling aerobatic stresses, nor is it a comparison of gross
> weight to wing area. If we were to double the thickness of the gussets in
> the Piet's wing to 1/8", I still wouldn't be inclined to do any snap
> maneuvers in a Piet.
>
> The shorter wingspan, stiffer spars, and extra bracing in the Flitzer's
> airframe is what gives it the strength to survive aerobatics. The Flitzer
> was engineered for a bit more aggressive type of flying. Bernard Pietenpol
> didn't design his airplane for aerobatics, but for simple flying pleasure
> out of his small pasture airport. This isn't really a comparison of
> apples to oranges but more like a comparison of apples to eggs...
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL
> Baker, LA
> tail feathers nearly done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260374#260374
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GL 1, GL2 plywood |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I'm using some I got sold as baltic birch from north west lumber in INDY.
I just soaked it in water four days and then destroyed a piece of it
it did not fail in the glue line but in the wood, has no gaps or voids
and no visible imperfections.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:27 AM, shad bell wrote:
> Group, I have been using GL1, 2 grade European Finnish Birch ply on my
> Jungster. It seems to be a little cheaper than mil spec us ply. It is only
> available fromm a.s.s. in 4x4 sheets though. I would say it is at least as
> good as mil spec plywood, and some of the 2.5-3.0mm I have is 5 ply instead
> of 3, very strong stuff. It also looks a little nicer than some mil spec
> birch ply. Look it up online, G.L. stands for German Loyd, and is the
> standard for marine birch in europe. GL1 grade is the best, GL2 is still
> aircraft grade, and GL3 I believe is non structural /marine use only.
>
> Shad
>
> start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: saying goodbye to my uncle - off topic |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
VG9tDQoNCk15IGNvbmRvbGVuY2VzIHlvdXIgVW5jbGUgRWQgZ2F2ZSB5b3UgdGhlIG1lbW9yeSB3
ZSBhbGwgc3RyaXZlIGFuZCBob3BlIHRvIGxlYXZlIHdpdGggb3VyIHN1Y2Nlc3NvcnMuIFRoZSBn
aWZ0IG9mIGZsaWdodCB5b3UgdHdvIGV4Y2hhbmdlZCBpcyBhbmQgd2FzIGEgZ2lmdCB0byBiZSBj
aGVyaXNoZWQgYnkgYm90aCBhbmQgZm9yIGV2ZXIuIA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHNoYXJpbmcgdGhv
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DQpUb20gQi4NCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Blakesburg Flyin this weekend |
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
If anybody makes it to Blakesburg this week. We will be frying catfish on
Friday night. No charge to any of you by the way!
Rumor has it Jack Textor will give a beer to anybody flying in in their
Piet. If he don't I guess I will. Seriously if anybody does make it
we will be camped along the west side of the runway. We will have a model a
parked next to the tent so we shouldn't be hard to find.
Hope to see a few of you.
Roger Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: saying goodbye to my uncle - off topic |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
Stinkin blackberry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 03:00:28
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: saying goodbye to my uncle - off topic
Tom
My condolences your Uncle Ed gave you the memory we all strive and hope to leave
with our successors. The gift of flight you two exchanged is and was a gift
to be cherished by both and for ever.
Thanks for sharing those special touching moments with us all. Its the simple things
that touch others that gives meaning to life.
Farewell to an aviator gone West
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:18:40
Subject: Pietenpol-List: saying goodbye to my uncle - off topic
Tomorrow I attend the funeral of the man who introduced me to aviation. When I
was a kid I was at a family reunion in Osceola, WI and my uncle Ed offered to
take me for a ride in his airplane. I was about 13-14 years old and had friend
of mine with me. We both went in his rented Cherokee 140 along with my other
uncle Bob. I had never flown before and I remember seeing a twin engine fly
low over the field and how amazed I was. My uncle gave me that first flight
years ago and I never forgot. Just a few years ago, I returned the favor. I
flew out to Osceola and gave him probably his last ride. At the time I was renting
- what else - a Cherokee 140. He died this weekend and I can't stop thinking
about how he gave me my first flight. I hope we can all be so generous
with family and friends. I enjoyed watching Greg Cardinal give children rides
at Brodhead. This is where flying needs to return to. Anyway, I'll miss uncle
Ed. We didn't have much in common except for flying, but that's all we needed.
I wish someday he could have seen my Pietenpol flying, but it gives me
motivation so that others in the family can see it someday.
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Rodney,
Aircraft Tool Supply has a go-no-go for a few bucks:
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=54-11
Otherwise, here is a drawing that should provide the info you need. It's a
bit 'busy', but everything should be there:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/3880441792/sizes/l/
That is the largest resolution Flickr supports (at least the free level). If
you, or anyone else, has trouble seeing any of the drawing or dimensions at
that resolution just email me off list and I can send you a much higher
resolution scan that may work better.
HTH,
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, wrote:
>
> I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or
> the width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
>
> Rodney Hall
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
If you were going to test that plywood to see if it could equal the
properties of either aircraft or marine grade plywood, wouldn't you want to
conduct the equivalent testing? You soaked it in your tub, so you did not
boil test. How did you test the ply to failure? The marine ply test that
Bill gave an example of called for testing the tensile strength after
boiling, aircraft grade is shear tested.....
Also, why go through the trouble of soaking every single gusset prior to
application and 'pre-soaking' all joints with silica and epoxy when you
could just spend a little more time and money buying the proper materials
with which to build your airplane, and then just glue your joints and
gussets normally? You are going to be spending thousands upon thousands of
dollars to build this aircraft; why skimp a few bucks on wood, which forms
the backbone of your Piet, when it is a relatively minor expenditure in the
grand scheme of things?
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
> Yes I would not try arobatics in a Pie, the Grega plan shows using
> 3/32 mahogany on the outside all the way down the sides,
> then on the inside it specifics 1/8 inch birch, I tested the birch
> I soaked the birch in the bath tub four days and night's(sounds biblical)
> it is not sold as marine but it is all birch, no knots no pin knots,
> no voids ot gaps, after soaking I destroyed a piece it failed in the wood
> not in the glue line, this settles it I will use it, purchased this at 20
> dollars
> a sheet at north west woods in INDY if any one is interested
> in this baltic birch. I bought several sheets of 1/8 and some 1/4.
> I would suggest you conduct your own test to your satisfaction.
> I will also soak the gussets completely submurged in epoxy while it
> is warm and thin. Then I'll put a paste mixture of silica and epoxy
> in the glue joint pre soaking both wood and gusset this should conclude any
> doubts about the glue line ebing water proof in my mind. It it was
> a sail boat I would use marine.
>
>
> Russell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
In the 1919 book "Aeronautical Engineering" by Alexander Klemin there is
reference to old turnbuckles. Three different styles are listed and they
are RAF, Binet, and Curtiss. The Curtiss style shows a #326 and a
#326-S. They are rated for 2183 lbs. and the "S" version is for short.
There is no #325 listed. There is no reference to "SF" turnbuckles.
The original poster of this thread, Roger Davis, was looking for
turnbuckle sizes. Check out this website:
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
It has good info on turnbuckle sizes and fittings.
All the available info on turnbuckle sizes and the multitude of fitting
options can be a bit confusing.
Start by selecting a cable size. Then figure out the appropriate
turnbuckle size and then select your fittings. It helps to draw pictures
on paper of each of your cables with fittings.
The cable sizes used on NX18235 are 3/32" for all control cables,
empennage and cabane cross-bracing.
Landing gear, drag and anti-drag, and lift strut cables are all 1/8"
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the
terminology of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or
326SF. In all of my searches on the internet, I have not been able to
find any reference material that either describes what these turnbuckles
are (with dimensions), or cross-references the old names to the more
modern terminology.
Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to
decipher what's on the plans?
Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should
be used with larger cables, and smaller with smaller - just wondered if
anyone had any info to share.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com> |
Greg,
As I have said, "You are The Man!"
Gary
--------------------------
Gary A. Boothe
Sales Manager
CALPLY Architectural Products Division
Sent from BlackBerry Wireless Device
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tue Sep 01 21:15:10 2009
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
In the 1919 book "Aeronautical Engineering" by Alexander Klemin there is
reference to old turnbuckles. Three different styles are listed and they
are RAF, Binet, and Curtiss. The Curtiss style shows a #326 and a
#326-S. They are rated for 2183 lbs. and the "S" version is for short.
There is no #325 listed. There is no reference to "SF" turnbuckles.
The original poster of this thread, Roger Davis, was looking for
turnbuckle sizes. Check out this website:
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
It has good info on turnbuckle sizes and fittings.
All the available info on turnbuckle sizes and the multitude of fitting
options can be a bit confusing.
Start by selecting a cable size. Then figure out the appropriate
turnbuckle size and then select your fittings. It helps to draw pictures
on paper of each of your cables with fittings.
The cable sizes used on NX18235 are 3/32" for all control cables,
empennage and cabane cross-bracing.
Landing gear, drag and anti-drag, and lift strut cables are all 1/8"
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the
terminology of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or
326SF. In all of my searches on the internet, I have not been able to
find any reference material that either describes what these turnbuckles
are (with dimensions), or cross-references the old names to the more
modern terminology.
Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to
decipher what's on the plans?
Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should
be used with larger cables, and smaller with smaller - just wondered if
anyone had any info to share.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Davis Roger <iyaayas388(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Greg, it seems like spends hours on the computer checking to make
sure I am doing things correctly. Then by the end of the week I look back
and not much progress to the Piet. I should have asked this and other
questions a long long time ago.
Thanks again
Roger
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:27 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> As I have said, "You are The Man!"
>
> Gary
> --------------------------
> Gary A. Boothe
> Sales Manager
> CALPLY Architectural Products Division
> Sent from BlackBerry Wireless Device
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tue Sep 01 21:15:10 2009
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
>
> In the 1919 book "Aeronautical Engineering" by Alexander Klemin there is
> reference to old turnbuckles. Three different styles are listed and they
> are RAF, Binet, and Curtiss. The Curtiss style shows a #326 and a
> #326-S. They are rated for 2183 lbs. and the "S" version is for short.
> There is no #325 listed. There is no reference to "SF" turnbuckles.
>
> The original poster of this thread, Roger Davis, was looking for
> turnbuckle sizes. Check out this website:
>
> http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf
>
> It has good info on turnbuckle sizes and fittings.
>
> All the available info on turnbuckle sizes and the multitude of fitting
> options can be a bit confusing.
> Start by selecting a cable size. Then figure out the appropriate
> turnbuckle size and then select your fittings. It helps to draw pictures
> on paper of each of your cables with fittings.
> The cable sizes used on NX18235 are 3/32" for all control cables,
> empennage and cabane cross-bracing.
> Landing gear, drag and anti-drag, and lift strut cables are all 1/8"
>
> Greg Cardinal
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bill Church
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:51 AM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
>
>
> Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the
> terminology of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or
> 326SF. In all of my searches on the internet, I have not been able to
> find any reference material that either describes what these turnbuckles
> are (with dimensions), or cross-references the old names to the more
> modern terminology.
> Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to
> decipher what's on the plans?
> Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should
> be used with larger cables, and smaller with smaller - just wondered if
> anyone had any info to share.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Explanation accepted! Thanks for the warning....
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Virus
Ya had to ask didn't ya. Well ill tell ya. I got an email from a friend on
face book that advertised a video of his. My being the curious type and a
video by a trusted and long time friend I accepted his invitation and went
to the site for download. EHhhhh wrong choice. virus time ding ding ding
ding I won.
Being the benevolent and inquisitive soul that I am conducted an exhaustive
in depth search on behalf of my friends found the problem,solved and solved.
Then posted the warning to protect the systems of my good,highly respected
friends which you and others are the benefactors of my lone peril.
You're welcome!
John
------Original Message------
From: Gary Boothe
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 1, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Virus
A'hem....and, John, just what was the lead to that YouTube site that
interested you so much...nevermind...I don't think I want to know. I prefer
to think of you as pure in mind, body and soul!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Virus
Heads up. I been getting e mails all day through my facebook. It appears the
virus rades send you to a bogus youtube site for a video. when you go to
the link, it raids your friend list and generates an e mail from you to your
friends sending the to the youtube site. Continuing the cycle. So don't go!
Its taken all day to get clear.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Turnbuckles dilema |
allright about you say Im stok in the same problem- but- i have a fried
,if these sale these gigant stok all talk whit you guys seyou jorge from h
anford
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckles
Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 7:51 AM
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Regarding turnbuckles, the plans describe the turnbuckles using the termino
logy of the day (1929 - 1934), and are called up as 325SF or 326SF. In all
of my searches on the internet, I have not been able to find any reference
material that either describes what these turnbuckles are (with dimensions)
, or cross-references the old names to the more modern terminology.
Anybody out there know of any reference material that would help to deciphe
r what's on the plans?
Of course, common sense would dictate that larger turnbuckles should be use
d with larger cables, and-smaller with smaller - just wondered if anyone
had any info to share.
-
Bill C.-
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I believe this is the data Greg was referencing:
http://users.rcn.com/ryan.mueller/Aero-abbreviated.pdf
If not, please let me know!
Ryan
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:15 PM, gcardinal wrote:
> *In the 1919 book "Aeronautical Engineering" by Alexander Klemin there is
> reference to old turnbuckles. Three different styles are listed and they are
> RAF, Binet, and Curtiss. The Curtiss style shows a #326 and a #326-S. They
> are rated for 2183 lbs. and the "S" version is for short.*
> *There is no #325 listed. There is no reference to "SF" turnbuckles.*
> **
> *The original poster of this thread, Roger Davis, was looking for
> turnbuckle sizes. Check out this website:*
> **
> *http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/cable%20fittings.pdf*
> **
> *It has good info on turnbuckle sizes and fittings.*
> **
> *All the available info on turnbuckle sizes and the multitude of fitting
> options can be a bit confusing. *
> *Start by selecting a cable size. Then figure out the appropriate
> turnbuckle size and then select your fittings. It helps to draw pictures on
> paper of each of your cables with fittings.*
> *The cable sizes used on NX18235 are 3/32" for all control cables,
> empennage and cabane cross-bracing.*
> *Landing gear, drag and anti-drag, and lift strut cables are all 1/8"*
> **
> *Greg Cardinal*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I'm not skimping the plywood I'm using is excellent plywood without
imperfections,
all wood should be precoated with epoxy before glueing to avoid a dry joint,
the gusset
will be coated all over to seal from moisture and to allow the wood to
quench
itself for gluing. This is recommended by most all epoxy suppliers.
I'm thinking that the shear strength of the plywood I'm using is twice the
strength
of Okume marine and would wager on it. No I'm not thinking that the birch
I has twice the shear of okume Marine I know it has.
Have a nice day,
Russell
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> If you were going to test that plywood to see if it could equal the
> properties of either aircraft or marine grade plywood, wouldn't you want to
> conduct the equivalent testing? You soaked it in your tub, so you did not
> boil test. How did you test the ply to failure? The marine ply test that
> Bill gave an example of called for testing the tensile strength after
> boiling, aircraft grade is shear tested.....
>
> Also, why go through the trouble of soaking every single gusset prior to
> application and 'pre-soaking' all joints with silica and epoxy when you
> could just spend a little more time and money buying the proper materials
> with which to build your airplane, and then just glue your joints and
> gussets normally? You are going to be spending thousands upon thousands of
> dollars to build this aircraft; why skimp a few bucks on wood, which forms
> the backbone of your Piet, when it is a relatively minor expenditure in the
> grand scheme of things?
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
>
>> Yes I would not try arobatics in a Pie, the Grega plan shows using
>> 3/32 mahogany on the outside all the way down the sides,
>> then on the inside it specifics 1/8 inch birch, I tested the birch
>> I soaked the birch in the bath tub four days and night's(sounds biblical)
>> it is not sold as marine but it is all birch, no knots no pin knots,
>> no voids ot gaps, after soaking I destroyed a piece it failed in the wood
>> not in the glue line, this settles it I will use it, purchased this at 20
>> dollars
>> a sheet at north west woods in INDY if any one is interested
>> in this baltic birch. I bought several sheets of 1/8 and some 1/4.
>> I would suggest you conduct your own test to your satisfaction.
>> I will also soak the gussets completely submurged in epoxy while it
>> is warm and thin. Then I'll put a paste mixture of silica and epoxy
>> in the glue joint pre soaking both wood and gusset this should conclude
>> any
>> doubts about the glue line ebing water proof in my mind. It it was
>> a sail boat I would use marine.
>>
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
It has no imperfections on the outer plys. You don't know about the inner,
so you don't know if it is made to an aircraft/marine standard.
Gussets made with appropriate wood don't need to be coated all over with
epoxy to seal from moisture. Coat the joint side of the gusset with a thin
layer of T-88, for example, and lightly secure it. And you are done. The
outside of the gusset, and all the rest of the wood, will be sealed when you
apply the varnish.
You think this about things, you think that about things......then prove it.
If you use aircraft or marine ply, then by your choice you have proved it.
If you choose to use a good grade of ply that is neither marine or aircraft
grade, then prove that it can meet the same standards. Otherwise you are
building your airplane like you'd build your shed....and you probably ought
not try to fly your shed.
Just trying to help. Have a good night,
Ryan
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
> I'm not skimping the plywood I'm using is excellent plywood without
> imperfections,
> all wood should be precoated with epoxy before glueing to avoid a dry
> joint, the gusset
> will be coated all over to seal from moisture and to allow the wood to
> quench
> itself for gluing. This is recommended by most all epoxy suppliers.
> I'm thinking that the shear strength of the plywood I'm using is twice the
> strength
> of Okume marine and would wager on it. No I'm not thinking that the birch
> I has twice the shear of okume Marine I know it has.
>
>
> Have a nice day,
> Russell
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom Flyin |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I will be there if I'm not on call, I live just south of Louisville so I
will check my work
schedule and will probably camp for the night if space is available.
Russell
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Richard Schreiber wrote:
> I was wondering who from the list was planning on attending the "Wood,
> Fabric and Tailwheels" flyin at Lee Bottom Indiana the end of September. I
> know that Mike Cuy is going and my Wife and I are also going, but is there
> any one else? For those that don't know about the flyin it is a very
> friendly, grassroots event the last weekend in September. They typically get
> 400 to 450 planes in for the weekend. The airport is a 4000 foot grass strip
> along the Ohio river, just west of Madison, Indiana. Next to Brodhead this
> is probably my most favorite flyin of the year. Here is a link to the
> flyin http://www.leebottom.com/event_schedule.htm
>
> If you have not been to the flyin before, its really a great time. Lots of
> wood and fabric taildraggers and great people. Rich and Ginger Davidson, who
> own the airport and put the flyin on are also great people. The flyin is
> listed as a one day event ...Saturday, September 26, 2009, but many come in
> on Friday and leave on Sunday. If you don't want to camp, transportation to
> local hotels is provided. Food will be provided from Friday evening through
> the weekend.
>
> Rick Schreiber
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Good point made, this is what I need to hear.
Thanks, Russell
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 2:05 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> It has no imperfections on the outer plys. You don't know about the inner,
> so you don't know if it is made to an aircraft/marine standard.
>
> Gussets made with appropriate wood don't need to be coated all over with
> epoxy to seal from moisture. Coat the joint side of the gusset with a thin
> layer of T-88, for example, and lightly secure it. And you are done. The
> outside of the gusset, and all the rest of the wood, will be sealed when you
> apply the varnish.
>
> You think this about things, you think that about things......then prove
> it. If you use aircraft or marine ply, then by your choice you have proved
> it. If you choose to use a good grade of ply that is neither marine or
> aircraft grade, then prove that it can meet the same standards. Otherwise
> you are building your airplane like you'd build your shed....and you
> probably ought not try to fly your shed.
>
> Just trying to help. Have a good night,
>
> Ryan
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
>
>> I'm not skimping the plywood I'm using is excellent plywood without
>> imperfections,
>> all wood should be precoated with epoxy before glueing to avoid a dry
>> joint, the gusset
>> will be coated all over to seal from moisture and to allow the wood to
>> quench
>> itself for gluing. This is recommended by most all epoxy suppliers.
>> I'm thinking that the shear strength of the plywood I'm using is twice the
>> strength
>> of Okume marine and would wager on it. No I'm not thinking that the birch
>> I has twice the shear of okume Marine I know it has.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have a nice day,
>> Russell
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
Me and my family will be there if nothing else comes up.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Well, I don't know why we should cut somebody off at the
knees about this ;o) Pietenpol published alternate plans
for a steel tube fuselage, so a logical extension would be
to look at the empennage as well. For a very few dollars
one can purchase the set of three (or is it four?) "Flying
& Glider Manuals" from EAA from the 1930s and besides them
being fascinating reading and very educational, there are
a whole host of different designs in them that utilize
steel tubing for the empennage and other parts. From those,
it would be quite simple to lay out the lines of the
Piet surfaces and translate them to tubing sizes, bracing,
and intersection connections.
If I may even go a bit heretical, one could also look at
the Roger Mann RW-1 "Ragwing Piet" plans and figure it out
from there, because the Ragwing Piet is all tubing and
aluminum at that.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | variations on how to build a Pietenpol : empennage |
plans using tubing
I had a gent visit my hangar in the spring from Australia who became totally
fascinated with the Pietenpol design.
He was in the states for a few weeks and came back to tell me that he had ordered
and rec'd the plans (in case you'd like to order Pietenpol plans go here: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
Upon this gent's next visit to the airport he proceeded to tell me how he was going
to:
1) make folding wings so he could trailer the airplane--he was going to redesign
it like a Kitfox (I think)
2) Use stamped aluminum ribs
3) Use an aluminum tubes for the wing spars (like Jim Bede used and the little
Grumman's followed up with in factory-builts such as the Yankee, AA1 series, Tiger,
and Traveler)
4) Possibly use a different airfoil--he was going to do a search for the best lift/
lowest drag airfoil
5) I forget what all he told me because I literally tuned him out after hearing
his first few ideas
and the guy hadn't even gone over the plans but just in casual observation of my
airplane decided all these
things in rapid fire order.
I wished him luck and asked him to send me photos of it when he's got it flying.
I almost added "have fun and knock yourself out !"
Mike C.
Just another snowflake (Larry W. will like that one:)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
My Piet, NX20795 has a welded tube fuse AND tail feathers.
I think I might even have the builder's drawings of the steel frames.
As a matter of fact, the rudder ribs were sheet metal channels which
he accidentally welded facing up (water collecting?)
so he mounted the rudder upside down. If you look at a photo of
NX20795 in the archives you'll notice that the top of the
rudder is a different angle than the typical Piet.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:53 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> >
>
>
> Well, I don't know why we should cut somebody off at the
> knees about this ;o) Pietenpol published alternate plans
> for a steel tube fuselage, so a logical extension would be
> to look at the empennage as well. For a very few dollars
> one can purchase the set of three (or is it four?) "Flying
> & Glider Manuals" from EAA from the 1930s and besides them
> being fascinating reading and very educational, there are
> a whole host of different designs in them that utilize
> steel tubing for the empennage and other parts. From those,
> it would be quite simple to lay out the lines of the
> Piet surfaces and translate them to tubing sizes, bracing,
> and intersection connections.
>
> If I may even go a bit heretical, one could also look at
> the Roger Mann RW-1 "Ragwing Piet" plans and figure it out
> from there, because the Ragwing Piet is all tubing and
> aluminum at that.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae210/rmpanzer23/rudders.jpg
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Roman Bukolt wrote:
>
> My Piet, NX20795 has a welded tube fuse AND tail feathers.
> I think I might even have the builder's drawings of the steel frames.
> As a matter of fact, the rudder ribs were sheet metal channels which he
> accidentally welded facing up (water collecting?)
> so he mounted the rudder upside down. If you look at a photo of NX20795 in
> the archives you'll notice that the top of the
> rudder is a different angle than the typical Piet.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
Big Steve=2C
I just received my plans and they do have the steel fuse. However only for
the short version for the model A. According to Don Pietenpol there never
was published steel tube plans for the long version.
Doug Dever
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: empennage plans using tubing
> From: billspiet(at)sympatico.ca
> Date: Tue=2C 1 Sep 2009 18:56:45 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
ca>
>
> Big Steve=2C
>
> Why are you looking at Nieuport plans to build a Pietenpol?
> And=2C more importantly=2C why are you surprised that the empennage looks
"quite different"?
>
> To the best of my knowledge=2C there are no published plans for the Piete
npol empennage built of steel tubing (or any other kind of tubing=2C for th
at matter). I'd say you're on your own there. Which is not to say that peop
le have not built their empennage out of steel tube=2C because they have. I
'm just saying that they all did it without the use of published plans.
>
> Good luck with your Nieuportenpol!
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260941#260941
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/nieuport_17_143.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpolaircamper_112.jpg
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Okay, Oscar - maybe just cut them off at the ankles then.
Actually, I have no problem with anyone doing whatever they want with
their plane - I just couldn't for the life of me figure out what
connection there was between plans for a Nieuport and the Pietenpol.
Of course, many planes have been built with steel tube empennages -
probably more than there have been with wooden empennages. And there
have been builders that have built their Piets with steel empennage as
well. My point was that, to the best of my knowledge, there are not any
PUBLISHED plans available for a steel tube Piet empennage. No doubt that
those builders who chose to build in steel, drew up their own plans.
Perhaps, as you suggest, they "borrowed" ideas from plans of other
planes of a similar vintage. Or maybe they actually knew what they were
doing, and performed the necessary calculations to determine the
appropriate diameter and wall thicknesses of tubing to use, as well a
what internal structure would be needed.
What it boils down to is this:
If a builder chooses to deviate from the plans, it is the builder's
responsibility and duty to determine whether the changes they make will
function properly, and withstand all of the loads that will be imposed
on the resulting plane, as well as determining what, if any, impact
those changes will have on the rest of the plane.
As for your proposed heresy, you'll have to try harder. The RagWing
designs are all wood - no tubing in the structures.
http://www.ragwing.net/
I bet you're thinking about Robert Baslee's Airdrome Aeroplanes - those
are all built with aluminum tube and pop rivets - but he doesn't have a
Pietenpol-like plane in his fleet.
http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/index.html
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: empennage plans using tubing
-->
Well, I don't know why we should cut somebody off at the knees about
this ;o) Pietenpol published alternate plans for a steel tube fuselage,
so a logical extension would be to look at the empennage as well. For a
very few dollars one can purchase the set of three (or is it four?)
"Flying & Glider Manuals" from EAA from the 1930s and besides them being
fascinating reading and very educational, there are a whole host of
different designs in them that utilize steel tubing for the empennage
and other parts. From those, it would be quite simple to lay out the
lines of the Piet surfaces and translate them to tubing sizes, bracing,
and intersection connections.
If I may even go a bit heretical, one could also look at the Roger Mann
RW-1 "Ragwing Piet" plans and figure it out from there, because the
Ragwing Piet is all tubing and aluminum at that.
Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools |
Rodney,
The short answer is .339 in. or less for 1/8" cable oval fittings. The gauge is
.339" at the mouth of the rectangular cutout, and .335" at its back.
The longer answer....
This is measured on my go/nogo gauge that came with my little crimper. The crimper
is the one with one handle and two bolts you tighten to squeeze the dies.
The tool is Wicks "tool hand swedge," part no. HST-2 ($18.31). The go/nogo
gauge comes with it, at no extra charge, or may be bought separately as "gauge
for HST-2," Wicks part no. NG54-11 ($6.38).
I have not yet used this crimper, but have used another fellow's crimper that looks
like a bolt cutter. He said he paid about $50 for his, but I was unable
to find such a tool at such a price. Perhaps if I had looked under telecom splicers,
etc.?
His tool was easy to use and accurate, but he and his tool are 50 miles away.
Wicks sells that tool as Wicks part no. 64CGMP for $219.38. They also sell a
related gauge.
Since that usage, I bought a cheap tool of that sort-- the bolt cutter look-alike--
the professional tool that many of the guys use and highly recommend. My
cheap tool bought at Home Depot was under $30. I had to file the jaws down to
get the squeeze I thought I wanted, and then was not sure if it was right.
So I bought the small tool mentioned above from Wicks, as part of an order of other
things. When I get back to cables, I will first try the Home Depot tool
and check it with the Wicks gauge. I found using the borrowed tools in my EAA
member's shop that getting the first crimp with the heavier tool is easy and
effective. I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
there we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here
at my project. I think that getting the second and third crimps placed just
right might be easier with the little hand swege, but I have not tried this yet.
I will try all methods on ONE end of a cable, BEFORE I cut it to length, and
then optimize, based on results.
Hope this helps. If any of you have gauges with other dimensions, or other swaging
advice, I would like to hear this.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net
>Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools
>
>
>I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
>
>Rodney Hall
>---- Robert Ray wrote:
>> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
>> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
>> correctly.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
>> Corporation] wrote:
>>
>> > Aerospace Corporation]"
>> >
>> >
>> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
>> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
>> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
>> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
>> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
>> >
>> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws
a
>> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
>> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
>> >
>> > Mike C.
>> >
>> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
>> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
>> > seconds
>> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Bill=2C
The plans that I have do have drawings for the steel tube fuse. However onl
y the short version.
Doug Dever
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook.
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:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
They most likely do, Doug.
The Pietenpol plans include a very basic drawing for the steel tube
version of the short fuselage. In fact, if anyone is planning to build a
steel tube fuselage, I would recommend they also get the Flying and
Glider reprint, as that has more detail regarding the steel tube
fuselage.
My post was in reply to a specific question (which is referred to in the
title of this thread) regarding plans for a tube version of the
empennage (tail feathers). Neither set of Pietenpol plans include that.
I don't know about the Grega plans - but they're no longer available for
purchase anyway.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Dever
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: empennage plans using tubing
Bill,
The plans that I have do have drawings for the steel tube fuse. However
only the short version.
Doug Dever
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Greg and Ryan,
Those were two very handy and helpful responses. Thank You.
Based on the link that Ryan posted, we can see that "turnbuckles are
made in short and long, male and female ends". Well, at least they were
90 years ago. I don't know if they are still made with male ends.
Probably not.
Anyway, I think that we can logically deduce that the "S" stands for
short, and the "F" stands for female, so "326 S.F." would indicate a
size 326 short turnbuckle with female ends.
Size 326 is listed in the chart with a breaking load of 2150 pounds, and
larger numbers have higher breaking loads, so it's a pretty safe bet
that a size 325 would have a breaking load somewhat lower than 2150
pounds.
My conclusion is:
Where the plans call for 326 S.F. - use AN***-22S turnbuckle
assemblies (strength 2200 pounds)
Where the plans call for 325 S.F. - use AN***-16S turnbuckle
assemblies (strength 1600 pounds)
(in the above turnbuckle assembly numbers, the three digits represented
by asterisks *** are determined by what type of ends are used - see
Aircraft Spruce catalogue link below for reference. The "dash" number
gives the strength, in hundreds of pounds, and the "S" stands for
short.)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/turnbuckles.php
Thanks again Greg and Ryan. Mystery solved.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Bill wrote-
>regarding plans for a tube version of the empennage (tail feathers).
>Neither set of Pietenpol plans include that. I don't know about
>the Grega plans
I was just looking at my GN-1 plans this past weekend. All the tail
is wood and fabric construction, very similar to the Air Camper,
with a few small differences but all the same basic wood framing
sticks and shapes and very similar metal fittings and braces.
I stand corrected about the Ragwing "UltraPiet" not being tubular
framed; however, there are other similar tubular-framed light sport
and ultralight aircraft from which one could easily derive an
equivalent tail for the Air Camper. I propose that such a beast
be called a "Pie-tube-and-rag-enpol" or a "Welded Wonder".
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <r.r.hall(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress |
tools
Thanks Tim,
I'll look for it at wicks. I bought my tool off of Ebay and it works great I just
have to check the finished crimp. I generally put the cable in a vice to hold
it for clamp it to something. Otherwisw having a helper really uh helps :-).
Rodney
---- Tim Willis wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> The short answer is .339 in. or less for 1/8" cable oval fittings. The gauge
is .339" at the mouth of the rectangular cutout, and .335" at its back.
>
> The longer answer....
>
> This is measured on my go/nogo gauge that came with my little crimper. The crimper
is the one with one handle and two bolts you tighten to squeeze the dies.
The tool is Wicks "tool hand swedge," part no. HST-2 ($18.31). The go/nogo
gauge comes with it, at no extra charge, or may be bought separately as "gauge
for HST-2," Wicks part no. NG54-11 ($6.38).
>
> I have not yet used this crimper, but have used another fellow's crimper that
looks like a bolt cutter. He said he paid about $50 for his, but I was unable
to find such a tool at such a price. Perhaps if I had looked under telecom
splicers, etc.?
>
> His tool was easy to use and accurate, but he and his tool are 50 miles away.
Wicks sells that tool as Wicks part no. 64CGMP for $219.38. They also sell
a related gauge.
>
> Since that usage, I bought a cheap tool of that sort-- the bolt cutter look-alike--
the professional tool that many of the guys use and highly recommend. My
cheap tool bought at Home Depot was under $30. I had to file the jaws down
to get the squeeze I thought I wanted, and then was not sure if it was right.
>
> So I bought the small tool mentioned above from Wicks, as part of an order of
other things. When I get back to cables, I will first try the Home Depot tool
and check it with the Wicks gauge. I found using the borrowed tools in my EAA
member's shop that getting the first crimp with the heavier tool is easy and
effective. I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
there we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here
at my project. I think that getting the second and third crimps placed just
right might be easier with the little hand swege, but I have not tried this
yet. I will try all methods on ONE end of a cable, BEFORE I cut it to length,
and then optimize, based on results.
>
> Hope this helps. If any of you have gauges with other dimensions, or other swaging
advice, I would like to hear this.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net
> >Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress
tools
> >
> >
> >I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
> >
> >Rodney Hall
> >---- Robert Ray wrote:
> >> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
> >> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> Russell
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> >> Corporation] wrote:
> >>
> >> > Aerospace Corporation]"
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
> >> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
> >> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
> >> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
> >> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
> >> >
> >> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws
a
> >> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
> >> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
> >> >
> >> > Mike C.
> >> >
> >> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
> >> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
> >> > seconds
> >> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress |
tools
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
A premature curiosity on my part. Does any one have a count of total cable feet
required to rig a piet, complete?
Does anyone know the difference between aircraft and nautical use wire rope?
Aside from the obvious Recine smart donkey answer of: one is for aircraft and the
other is for water craft.
John
Safe in the morning
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:34:19
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress
tools
Thanks Tim,
I'll look for it at wicks. I bought my tool off of Ebay and it works great I just
have to check the finished crimp. I generally put the cable in a vice to hold
it for clamp it to something. Otherwisw having a helper really uh helps :-).
Rodney
---- Tim Willis wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> The short answer is .339 in. or less for 1/8" cable oval fittings. The gauge
is .339" at the mouth of the rectangular cutout, and .335" at its back.
>
> The longer answer....
>
> This is measured on my go/nogo gauge that came with my little crimper. The crimper
is the one with one handle and two bolts you tighten to squeeze the dies.
The tool is Wicks "tool hand swedge," part no. HST-2 ($18.31). The go/nogo
gauge comes with it, at no extra charge, or may be bought separately as "gauge
for HST-2," Wicks part no. NG54-11 ($6.38).
>
> I have not yet used this crimper, but have used another fellow's crimper that
looks like a bolt cutter. He said he paid about $50 for his, but I was unable
to find such a tool at such a price. Perhaps if I had looked under telecom
splicers, etc.?
>
> His tool was easy to use and accurate, but he and his tool are 50 miles away.
Wicks sells that tool as Wicks part no. 64CGMP for $219.38. They also sell
a related gauge.
>
> Since that usage, I bought a cheap tool of that sort-- the bolt cutter look-alike--
the professional tool that many of the guys use and highly recommend. My
cheap tool bought at Home Depot was under $30. I had to file the jaws down
to get the squeeze I thought I wanted, and then was not sure if it was right.
>
> So I bought the small tool mentioned above from Wicks, as part of an order of
other things. When I get back to cables, I will first try the Home Depot tool
and check it with the Wicks gauge. I found using the borrowed tools in my EAA
member's shop that getting the first crimp with the heavier tool is easy and
effective. I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
there we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here
at my project. I think that getting the second and third crimps placed just
right might be easier with the little hand swege, but I have not tried this
yet. I will try all methods on ONE end of a cable, BEFORE I cut it to length,
and then optimize, based on results.
>
> Hope this helps. If any of you have gauges with other dimensions, or other swaging
advice, I would like to hear this.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net
> >Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress
tools
> >
> >
> >I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
> >
> >Rodney Hall
> >---- Robert Ray wrote:
> >> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
> >> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> Russell
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> >> Corporation] wrote:
> >>
> >> > Aerospace Corporation]"
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
> >> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
> >> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
> >> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
> >> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
> >> >
> >> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws
a
> >> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
> >> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
> >> >
> >> > Mike C.
> >> >
> >> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
> >> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
> >> > seconds
> >> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Hey that is GREAT Doug- why didn't you tell us you were from this area-- you don't
need the list, you just need Frank Pavliga, Don Emch
and myself plus Shad Bell and you got her licked.
The Piet is much like an Aeronca Champ but with about 10 mph---make that 15 mph
slower than a typical Champ...... but it is very much like the back
seat of a Champ or Cub on landing. With a person aboard a bit more challenging
but otherwise they have one big difference---the Piet will slow down
MUCH quicker than a Champ or Cub and stall-to-flare lots sooner than you think
it will. I tell new Pietenpol pilots to add power on final--- bleed off speed
at 3 to 4 feet off the ground and then chop the power, pull back the stick in yer
belly and enjoy a Coors Light.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Mike,
Thanks for the tips on landing, but how does one enjoy a Coors Light? >:-}
Jeff
>(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>... at 3 to 4 feet off the ground and then chop the power, pull back
>the stick in yer belly and enjoy a Coors Light.
>
>Mike C.
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Mike=2C
Sounds like it flys like a champ=2C comes down like a tri-pacer and loses s
peed like a cable braced ultralight. I have flown all three. albeit not at
the same time--lol. I took my pvt check ride in a tri-pacer and the exami
ner pulled the power on me and I Picked out a field pretty much right under
us and he said what are you doing? There is an airport right over there.
I said that we wouldn't make it. he asked if I was sure. I told him I was
positive. Well=2C we wouldn't have made it half way! Btw=2C Mike I thi
nk you said you were based at Valley City. Isn't that Don Helmic's old pla
ce?
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Sep 2009 18:32:04 -0500
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: empennage plans using tubing
>
Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
>
> Hey that is GREAT Doug- why didn't you tell us you were from this area--
you don't need the list=2C you just need Frank Pavliga=2C Don Emch
> and myself plus Shad Bell and you got her licked.
>
> The Piet is much like an Aeronca Champ but with about 10 mph---make that
15 mph slower than a typical Champ...... but it is very much like the back
> seat of a Champ or Cub on landing. With a person aboard a bit more challe
nging but otherwise they have one big difference---the Piet will slow down
> MUCH quicker than a Champ or Cub and stall-to-flare lots sooner than you
think it will. I tell new Pietenpol pilots to add power on final--- bleed o
ff speed
> at 3 to 4 feet off the ground and then chop the power=2C pull back the st
ick in yer belly and enjoy a Coors Light.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | landing like a Champ |
I realize that we usually have these "fireside
chats" when it's too cold or wet (or both) to work
on airplanes or fly them, but we seem to have
gotten off to an early start this year since there
is still plenty of flying and building weather
according to my check of the Weather Channel. But
all this talk about landing the Piet has me thinking
back to the last time I flew a Cub. For some reason
it seemed like the stick in the Cub was very tall
and that when I pulled it back to flare, it was at
about chest height and it felt a bit odd pulling it
into the center of my chest to full-stall it rather
than into my lap. I'm sure that's not the case but
that's how I remember it.
Flying my airplane for more than an hour or so, I
sometimes wonder if the grip might not be more
comfortable if it had a cant or angle to it like
a helicopter or fighter plane stick grip rather
than being straight up and down at the handle. I
find that my hand wants to hold the butt end of the
stick for awhile rather than the grip part, to give
my hand a rest. I've just never seen a Piet with
anything other than a straight stick grip, with
the exception of one or maybe two of the Brit ones
who used the teardrop-loop grip of the old WWI
planes, leather lacing and all. Guess it's just me.
I'll be installing the Curtis quick-drain on my
oil sump tomorrow. I just couldn't bear to pay $70
for the fancier Aeroquip type even though it has
a stub to connect a bit of hose onto and the Curtis
does not. Forty bucks difference in cost; that's a
lot of oil changes.
Somebody want to put another log on the fire and
hand Mikee another "silver bullet" while the rest of
us enjoy a pint of REAL ale?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: landing like a Champ |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Dang that was a heavy log. (cracking a cold shiner and ploping down)
This is a neat topic Oscar. I've never flown a stick airplane, but I have sat
in a few and as a taller fella I've often wondered if I might feel hunched over
when reaching down for the stick I can hear you over there John! Grab some
wood (aww geez), I mean, another log if you are just going to make wise cracks.
Anyhow, I wonder if the Piets control stick can be made taller than the ones I've
tried on? Perhaps those were fit to their pilot and maybe there was room for
more length? I've also considered a round top, like a backhoe control or something
so that I might just drive like that most of the time. Not sure what
I would prefer really... I guess I'll keep listening and maybe I'll formulate
a more educated opinion.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261140#261140
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools |
This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
Clif
Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However, there
we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at my
project. >
> Tim in central TX
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: landing like a Champ |
Real ale = Pietenpol
Coors Light = Foot launch ultralight
If I'm gonna get beer stains on my flying
scarf they'd better be the real thing!
Hahahaha Clif
> Somebody want to put another log on the fire and
> hand Mikee another "silver bullet" while the rest of
> us enjoy a pint of REAL ale?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools |
Clif,
I like your setup. I think I'll pass on riding the handle, though. I'll pass
on what I found best for me as I try several combos. A man with two tools, like
"a man with two clocks, never knows...."
My EAA buddy did not have a large vise, and if he did, I would not put his swaging
tool in it, pristine as it is. How he has built his airplane without a serious
vise I cannot fathom. I consider my heavy vise my best single tool, for
it can either hold parts or help form them with pressure, bending, impact, etc.
My thought was to vise it up as you have shown, here with my <$30 tool, as
well. AS&S sells a single-handled swager with which the other arm fastens to
the workbench. Same idea, but another $100 or more additional cost.
Another little trick to "gain a hand" is to put something on the cable to squeeze
it up to the thimble. It could be a 99 cent Home Depot steel clamp (green
vinyl tips), which I have by the dozens, and that we used at my buddy's shop.
Another trick would be to use a tiny U-bolt (one U-bolt, both ends threaded,
two nuts) or electrician's wire clamp (the threaded copper single-slotted bolt
and nut), but in either case tightened just enough not to permanently deform
the cable.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools
>
>This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
>you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
>
>Clif
>
>Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
>
>
> I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However, there
>we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at my
>project. >
>> Tim in central TX
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: landing like a Champ-- control stick |
I seem to recall some primitive cybernetics that said that a 7 degree angle was
the most comfortable grip for a human hand. That might be a reference point
for experimentation when the weather is dismal, right, Oscar?
BTW, I have a local friend with a Heath Parasol who is very happy with its teardrop
loop grip, leather cover and all.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:28 PM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing like a Champ
>
>
>I realize that we usually have these "fireside
>chats" when it's too cold or wet (or both) to work
>on airplanes or fly them, but we seem to have
>gotten off to an early start this year since there
>is still plenty of flying and building weather
>according to my check of the Weather Channel. But
>all this talk about landing the Piet has me thinking
>back to the last time I flew a Cub. For some reason
>it seemed like the stick in the Cub was very tall
>and that when I pulled it back to flare, it was at
>about chest height and it felt a bit odd pulling it
>into the center of my chest to full-stall it rather
>than into my lap. I'm sure that's not the case but
>that's how I remember it.
>
>Flying my airplane for more than an hour or so, I
>sometimes wonder if the grip might not be more
>comfortable if it had a cant or angle to it like
>a helicopter or fighter plane stick grip rather
>than being straight up and down at the handle. I
>find that my hand wants to hold the butt end of the
>stick for awhile rather than the grip part, to give
>my hand a rest. I've just never seen a Piet with
>anything other than a straight stick grip, with
>the exception of one or maybe two of the Brit ones
>who used the teardrop-loop grip of the old WWI
>planes, leather lacing and all. Guess it's just me.
>[TRUNCATED]
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Tim,
You are so right about the vise. And mine has an added feature...a flat
spot, like an anvil, only it's for setting my Pale Ale down.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using
Nicopresstools
Clif,
I like your setup. I think I'll pass on riding the handle, though. I'll
pass on what I found best for me as I try several combos. A man with two
tools, like "a man with two clocks, never knows...."
My EAA buddy did not have a large vise, and if he did, I would not put his
swaging tool in it, pristine as it is. How he has built his airplane
without a serious vise I cannot fathom. I consider my heavy vise my best
single tool, for it can either hold parts or help form them with pressure,
bending, impact, etc. My thought was to vise it up as you have shown, here
with my <$30 tool, as well. AS&S sells a single-handled swager with which
the other arm fastens to the workbench. Same idea, but another $100 or more
additional cost.
Another little trick to "gain a hand" is to put something on the cable to
squeeze it up to the thimble. It could be a 99 cent Home Depot steel clamp
(green vinyl tips), which I have by the dozens, and that we used at my
buddy's shop. Another trick would be to use a tiny U-bolt (one U-bolt, both
ends threaded, two nuts) or electrician's wire clamp (the threaded copper
single-slotted bolt and nut), but in either case tightened just enough not
to permanently deform the cable.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using
Nicopresstools
>
>This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
>you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
>
>Clif
>
>Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
>
>
> I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However, there
>we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at my
>project. >
>> Tim in central TX
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
Well if he gets it flying then he shouldn't call it a Pietenpol,
I think he should name it snow flake! does it snow in Australia?
The little snowflake removable wings, tube spars by now he's
got a airfoil off the space shuttle, there is however a little snow flake in
all of us
and to tell you the truth Bernard Pietenpol started building another
plane by plans then scrapped it and built his own, I'm sure
he picked some ideals up from his original plan that was crossed
over from the original plane he started to build.
Russell
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Tim Willis wrote:
> timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Clif,
>
> I like your setup. I think I'll pass on riding the handle, though. I'll
> pass on what I found best for me as I try several combos. A man with two
> tools, like "a man with two clocks, never knows...."
>
> My EAA buddy did not have a large vise, and if he did, I would not put his
> swaging tool in it, pristine as it is. How he has built his airplane
> without a serious vise I cannot fathom. I consider my heavy vise my best
> single tool, for it can either hold parts or help form them with pressure,
> bending, impact, etc. My thought was to vise it up as you have shown, here
> with my <$30 tool, as well. AS&S sells a single-handled swager with which
> the other arm fastens to the workbench. Same idea, but another $100 or more
> additional cost.
>
> Another little trick to "gain a hand" is to put something on the cable to
> squeeze it up to the thimble. It could be a 99 cent Home Depot steel clamp
> (green vinyl tips), which I have by the dozens, and that we used at my
> buddy's shop. Another trick would be to use a tiny U-bolt (one U-bolt, both
> ends threaded, two nuts) or electrician's wire clamp (the threaded copper
> single-slotted bolt and nut), but in either case tightened just enough not
> to permanently deform the cable.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
> >Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:57 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using
> Nicopresstools
> >
> >This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
> >you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
> >
> >Clif
> >
> >Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
> >
> >
> > I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
> there
> >we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at
> my
> >project. >
> >> Tim in central TX
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
The heat muff pics on the west coast piet site are abou as explanitory as i
t gets.- The front of that muff is open and the scat hose goes to the car
b box.- The muff is actually just a piece of stainless pipe the same stuf
f the exaust is made of, just cut in half, no vanes or media inside.- It
does ok I guess 50-75 rpm drop.
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wedges on sides |
The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the fuselage
. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am doing. On
the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled piece attaching
as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way I am cutting
my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up against ver
tical piece.)
-
Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary?- Using the print
sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very, ver
y small.
-
(Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under the
gussets....just curious if it is required.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wedges on sides |
Depends entirely on how hard you land. Under normal conditions, the wedges
are probably not necessary at all. If you can guarentee you will never make
a really hard landing, don't put them in.
Understand that a lot of this airplane (like most airplanes) is
"overdesigned" for normal circumstances. Frankly, I want an airplane that
can handle extraordianry circumstances and not fail. It's your choice.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the fuselage.
I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am doing. On
the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled piece attaching
as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way I am cutting
my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up against
vertical piece.)
Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary? Using the print
sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very, very
small.
(Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under the
gussets....just curious if it is required.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | stick height-- phone books |
Oscar-- just sit on a phone book when you're flying and you won't have to modify
your
stick height at all. My seat is 2" higher than plans (boy was that stupid)
so it feels just about right.
You're right about the Coors Light but Jack Phillips good friend Jim Dukeman (an
avid, avid Young Eagles coordinator and all round nice guy) came by when John
Hofmann, Jack, and I were setting up tents and dinning canopies on a hot afternoon
at Oshkosh a month ago and offered us ice (I mean ice cold) cold brews
and you know how they say when someone else does the cooking it always tastes
better-- same with this scenario. It was just the right refreshment at just
the right time in just the right setting, and I wasn't thinking about work, home
chores, car repairs, taking the dogs to the vet, or how my 85 year old mother
is doing in Florida. Life IS GOOD !
Mike C.
And Oscar, FYI, this time of year we call them camp fire side chats. We'll move
the chats indoors about November if that works for you Texans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Cub stick height |
Oscar-- I too have always felt tha the sticks in Cubs were high-- or the
seats too low. I think it is the latter. Just my opinion--your mileage may
vary.
Mike C.
(PS-- and while I'm giving observations--- I truly believe that the Pietenpol is
a nicer flying airplane than both the Cub and Champ and I have much time in
both types.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wedges on sides |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
If it calls for wedges, I would say use wedges.....otherwise it wouldn't
call for wedges. :)
Any particular reason for wanting to make two mitered cuts to fit the
crossmembers instead of one?
I believe in one of Tony B's books he gives examples of the various ways you
could fit crossmembers when building wing ribs, and those principles would
carry over to the fuselage. It doesn't so much matter how you fit the
intersection of crossmembers and longerons. You gain no more strength from
your double mitered joint on the right than is given by the plans fitment on
the left, as zero strength is derived from the butt joints of
crossmember-longeron-crossmember. All of the strength of that joint comes
from the gussets tying everything together. The plans fitment requires only
one mitered cut; multiply that out over all the pieces you have to fit and
you'll save some time and hassle.
As an aside, the plans fitment on the left appears to cover more surface
area, but I would imagine that's because this is not an exact, scale
representation of the joint/gusset....
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the
> fuselage. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am
> doing. On the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled piece
> attaching as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way I am
> cutting my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up
> against vertical piece.)
>
> Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary? Using the print
> sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very, very
> small.
>
> (Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under the
> gussets....just curious if it is required.)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wedges on sides |
Hi Mike--
Most of the wedges go in places where you'll be bolting in things
like:
Landing gear let fittings,
Motor mount fittings,
cabane strut fittings,
So you want those wedges in there to give your bolts something to go thru
that is solid in addition to giving the fittings a nice solid block of meat
to transfer the loads to. Use the wedges.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stick height-- phone books |
Mike, a serious question and an observation.
Why was the 2" higher seat dumb-- was it more wind on the pilot on cool days?
I would think the seat would be more comfortable, esp. lessening pulling on the
back of the legs, but maybe more height makes the instruments harder to read,
unless the panel is slanted. Pls reply.
I live about 100 miles north of Oscar, and wore long pants outside 6 days last
winter. Winter is a non-event. OTOH, we just had the hottest summer in Texas
history-- period. The 100F plus days may be over, but the 10-day forecast here
is for highs of 92-99. Yes, autumn is coming. Oscar might start wearing a
jacket in his Piet in December.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Sep 3, 2009 8:45 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: stick height-- phone books
>
>
>Oscar-- just sit on a phone book when you're flying and you won't have to modify
your
>stick height at all. My seat is 2" higher than plans (boy was that stupid)
>so it feels just about right.
>
>You're right about the Coors Light but Jack Phillips good friend Jim Dukeman (an
avid, avid Young Eagles coordinator and all round nice guy) came by when John
Hofmann, Jack, and I were setting up tents and dinning canopies on a hot afternoon
at Oshkosh a month ago and offered us ice (I mean ice cold) cold brews
and you know how they say when someone else does the cooking it always tastes
better-- same with this scenario. It was just the right refreshment at just
the right time in just the right setting, and I wasn't thinking about work, home
chores, car repairs, taking the dogs to the vet, or how my 85 year old mother
is doing in Florida. Life IS GOOD !
>
>Mike C.
>
>And Oscar, FYI, this time of year we call them camp fire side chats. We'll move
the chats indoors about November if that works for you Texans.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wedges on sides |
WQith all due respect=2C If you spent the time it took to redesign that joi
nt building it to the plans you would be done by now and on to the next ste
p. And that joint has been working for eighty years. Just my two cents. Ed
G.
Date: Thu=2C 3 Sep 2009 04:38:50 -0700
From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the fuselage
. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am doing. On
the left of the vertical piece=2C the print shows the angled piece attachi
ng as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical=2C the way I am cut
ting my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up against
vertical piece.)
Cutting in this way=2C I wonder if the wedge is necessary? Using the print
sized 2-1/4" gussets=2C the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very=2C
very small.
(Having said all of this=2C I am using the wedges to fill the area under th
e gussets....just curious if it is required.)
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wedges on sides |
Understood Jack.=C2- As I said, I will be using them. I am also going to
add them to the struts where the cabanes attach as well. (Tip from Mike C.)
--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Jack Phillips wrote:
From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:29 AM
Depends entirely on how hard you land.=C2- Under normal conditions, the w
edges are probably not necessary at all.=C2- If you can guarentee you wil
l never make a really hard landing, don=99t put them in.
=C2-
Understand that a lot of this airplane (like most airplanes) is =9Cov
erdesigned=9D for normal circumstances.=C2- Frankly, I want an airp
lane that can handle extraordianry circumstances and not fail.=C2- It
=99s your choice.
=C2-
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto: owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
=C2-
The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the fuselage
. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am doing. On
the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled piece attaching
as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way I am cutting
my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up against ver
tical piece.)
=C2-
Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary?=C2- Using the pr
int sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very,
very small.
=C2-
(Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under the
gussets....just curious if it is required.)
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage wedges on sides |
One miter cut is not a redesign. It is also very easy to do. I am using the
wedges, as stated in my original post, it just seemed that with the miter
cuts, that wedge gap was filled in better and I wondered if the wedge would
be a necessity. (and maybe someone else has done such a thing, there was d
iscussion on it before, or other planes use the doubled mitered cuts.) I do
n't know, so I ask.--Even so, I am quite far along with my build and st
ill have the rest of my life to finish it...no need to build to please anot
her persons time frame. (With all due respect.)
--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Ed G. wrote:
From: Ed G. <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 10:37 AM
#yiv615743333 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv615743333 {
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
WQith all due respect, If you spent the time it took to redesign that joint
building it to-the plans you would be done by now and on to the next ste
p. And that joint has been working for eighty years. Just my two cents. Ed
G.
-
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 04:38:50 -0700
From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the fuselage
. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am doing. On
the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled piece attaching
as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way I am cutting
my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up against ver
tical piece.)
-
Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary?- Using the print
sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very, ver
y small.
-
(Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under the
gussets....just curious if it is required.)
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com |
All,
I won't know till later today, but I may have found an entire garage kept
66 corvair, with 110 hp engine, for 400 bucks, and while I am still early
in the building phase of my plane, I don't want to pass this up. Does
anyone have drawings/plans/sketches for a corvair engine stand. My
thoughts are to remove the engine and then rid myself of the car, so as to
avoid undo yipping from the better half, put the engine on a stand and
that way I can begin conversion, during construction down times. And yes
I have ordered my conversion manual.
Jake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wedges on sides |
Ryan, it appears to me that if an angled piece as I showed, were to take a
shock load of some sort, it's tip would be forced to slide into the vertica
l piece, putting the glue joint in a shear situation. I don't know if the t
ip would then just curl up as the piece came loose, or what? I don't know.
With the double miter, that same shock load is somewhat shared with the ver
tical piece; -you have the two glue joints of the double mitered piece as
well as the glue joint of the vertical to the longeron.- It just seems t
o me to be a better, solid more load dispersing way to do it.- (I could b
e wrong, it has happened before) If we have fuselage cross members being br
oken, a lot of other things have gone wrong as well...
-
If what you say is true that the gussets-make up-100% of the joint stre
ngth, would that mean that the wood crossmembers would not need to touch, t
hat there could be a sizable gap?-
-
Sorry, but I did not take the time to draw the picture to scale, (that woul
d open up the door for more- "If you didn't spend so much time drawing sc
ale pictures, you could have had the plane done by now." nonsense, but I be
lieve the surface area for the glue joint on the double miter has not chang
ed, it was just moved from the longeron only to both it and the vertical.
-
I am not here to debate, but when others ask questions to my questions, It
then opens up even MORE questions and I like to hear what you all have to s
ay.
--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Ryan Mueller wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:58 AM
If it calls for wedges, I would say use wedges.....otherwise it wouldn't ca
ll for wedges. :)
Any particular reason for wanting to make two mitered cuts to fit the cross
members instead of one?
I believe in one of Tony B's books he gives examples of the various ways yo
u could fit crossmembers when building wing ribs, and those principles woul
d carry over to the fuselage. It doesn't so much matter how you fit the int
ersection of crossmembers and longerons. You gain no more strength from you
r double mitered joint on the right than is given by the plans fitment on t
he left, as zero strength is derived from the butt joints of crossmember-lo
ngeron-crossmember. All of the strength of that joint comes from the gusset
s tying everything together. The plans fitment requires only one mitered cu
t; multiply that out over all the pieces you have to fit and you'll save so
me time and hassle.
As an aside, the plans fitment on the left appears to cover more surface ar
ea, but I would imagine that's because this is not an exact, scale represen
tation of the joint/gusset....
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Michael Perez wr
ote:
The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the fuselage
. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I am doing. On
the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled piece attaching
as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way I am cutting
my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up against ver
tical piece.)
-
Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary?- Using the print
sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very, ver
y small.
-
(Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under the
gussets....just curious if it is required.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Here is another sketch, not to scale with the glue joints highlighted. Is o
n better then the other? I don't want to drag this out more then it needs t
o be, but I am curious. Thanks again...and if I come across in my posts as
a non-advice taking know it all, I am not trying to be. I have a lot of ide
as and questions and some, if not most will show up here on the list.- "Y
ou may fire when ready."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | landing like a Champ |
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Regarding the control stick on the Pietenpol, I'm not sure what the UK
version of the plans show, but I do recall seeing several British
cockpit shots with a zig-zag shaped control stick. So I tried searching
the UK Pietenpol site for some appropriate images - but they've recently
re-designed the site, and a lot of the photos are no longer there.
However, Chris Tracy's westcoastpiet.com site pulls through once more -
here are a couple of shots that show the style of stick I'm referring
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/Cockpit.JPG
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/DSCF0017.JPG
I also recall a photo of a Piet that was at Brodhead a few years ago
that had a Spitfire-style control stick, with a ring at the top, but I
can't track down a shot of that right now.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:29 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing like a Champ
-->
... Flying my airplane for more than an hour or so, I sometimes wonder
if the grip might not be more comfortable if it had a cant or angle to
it like a helicopter or fighter plane stick grip rather than being
straight up and down at the handle. I find that my hand wants to hold
the butt end of the stick for awhile rather than the grip part, to give
my hand a rest. I've just never seen a Piet with anything other than a
straight stick grip, with the exception of one or maybe two of the Brit
ones who used the teardrop-loop grip of the old WWI planes, leather
lacing and all...
Oscar Zuniga
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
Add the blocking to your diagram and highlight the glue lines. Now which ha
s more glue surface and which joint has the larger thus stronger mass? I be
lieve you will find that the origional does.
Date: Thu=2C 3 Sep 2009 08:53:00 -0700
From: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Here is another sketch=2C not to scale with the glue joints highlighted. Is
on better then the other? I don't want to drag this out more then it needs
to be=2C but I am curious. Thanks again...and if I come across in my posts
as a non-advice taking know it all=2C I am not trying to be. I have a lot
of ideas and questions and some=2C if not most will show up here on the lis
t. "You may fire when ready."
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | seat height and a little more on tailwheel flying |
Hi Tim,
My thinking in raising the seat was to get better visibility over the nose during
takeoff
and landing but unlike some of the WWII fighters where you can crank up your seat
for takeoff
and landing we obviously don't have that luxury in the Piet so for everything but
takeoff
and landing my upper body is out too far in the wind and the wind beats you up
after a while.
My solution should have been to just add cushions until I liked the view and then
could always
yank a cushion out after takeoff and before landing--if I even needed to do that.
There are some Piets with steep deck angles so in building my landing gear I tried
to keep mine
fairly shallow like the angle you'd have on a Champ and that helped with my forward
visibility.
You never really see anything over the nose anyway and especially so with a passenger
so your
runway alignment method comes from visual cues just on either side of the fuselage.
When I first transitioned into flying tailwheels it was in a tired old Champ that
my friend Joe
from church and I bought for $7,000 in 1989. Joe flew Champs for years so after
we got the plane
home he rode in the back seat and let me fly it from the front (off of grass) and
I was astounded
at the visibility--it was excellent.
After I flew off the required 15 hours with an instructor (to be insurable) we
both got bored after
about 6 hours and he decided to put me in the back seat. At first it was really
hard not seeing
over the nose but you quickly learn to just look ahead and use your peripheral
vision to sense
alignment and when you need a correction. And as long as I'm rambling on like
a school girl we
started on calm days with me in the front seat flying off of sod runways. After
a while we flew
on more windy days then transition to hard surface paved runways and then flew
on some REALLY windy
days and then worked in windy days with nasty, gusty crosswinds. Then he put
me in the back seat and we repeated that whole process starting on grass on calm
days.
As a side note I went FIFTEEN years without flying a nosewheel airplane and loved
every minute of it.
When I broke that string of years I was totally blessed to be offered to fly an
older gents Mooney
Mite and boy....was that thing FUN !!! I was just glad the termites joined hands
in the wings when
I pulled a few g's doing some big old wingovers.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another sketch |
Shouldn't the centerline of all members intersect through the same
point?
As I recall it is so on the GN1 drawings.
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Here is another sketch, not to scale with the glue joints
highlighted. Is on better then the other? I don't want to drag this out
more then it needs to be, but I am curious. Thanks again...and if I come
across in my posts as a non-advice taking know it all, I am not trying
to be. I have a lot of ideas and questions and some, if not most will
show up here on the list. "You may fire when ready."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wedges on sides |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Michael,
One could also argue that by double mitering the diagonal you have now
created a wedge, with the tip of that wedge trying to shear the
vertical-longeron joint. That counter argument, or your original argument
are moot points, as these are not individual members only butt jointed
together, but are instead all combined together by the gussets, so that loa
d
is spread throughout the joint.
Here is a comment by Tony B, regarding the diagonals in wing ribs....same
principles/form of construction, just scaled up a bit, and an illustration:
"There are two schools of thought about fitting the diagonals. One believes
the ends should be beveled, or mitered, to fit tightly against the cap stri
p
and the adjacent upright or diagonal. The other believes the ends can simpl
y
be cut square with the corners butted against the cap strip and adjacent
upright or diagonal. Take your choice. In my opinion, the method used
doesn=92t matter. A well glued and gussetted wing rib joint is virtually
indestructible. Try to break one apart and see for yourself."
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/images/building/wood/1Making%20Woo
d%20Wing%20Ribs-3.gif
Not necessarily trying to engage in debate either. Just sharing my thoughts
and opinions on your questions, and trying to see where you're coming from.
Time for lunch! Have a good day,
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Michael Perez wr
ote:
> Ryan, it appears to me that if an angled piece as I showed, were to take
a
> shock load of some sort, it's tip would be forced to slide into the verti
cal
> piece, putting the glue joint in a shear situation. I don't know if the t
ip
> would then just curl up as the piece came loose, or what? I don't know. W
ith
> the double miter, that same shock load is somewhat shared with the vertic
al
> piece; you have the two glue joints of the double mitered piece as well
as
> the glue joint of the vertical to the longeron. It just seems to me to b
e a
> better, solid more load dispersing way to do it. (I could be wrong, it h
as
> happened before) If we have fuselage cross members being broken, a lot of
> other things have gone wrong as well...
>
> If what you say is true that the gussets make up 100% of the joint
> strength, would that mean that the wood crossmembers would not need to
> touch, that there could be a sizable gap?
>
> Sorry, but I did not take the time to draw the picture to scale, (that
> would open up the door for more "If you didn't spend so much time drawin
g
> scale pictures, you could have had the plane done by now." nonsense, but
I
> believe the surface area for the glue joint on the double miter has not
> changed, it was just moved from the longeron only to both it and the
> vertical.
>
> I am not here to debate, but when others ask questions to my questions, I
t
> then opens up even MORE questions and I like to hear what you all have to
> say.
>
> --- On *Thu, 9/3/09, Ryan Mueller * wrote:
>
>
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage wedges on sides
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:58 AM
>
> If it calls for wedges, I would say use wedges.....otherwise it wouldn't
> call for wedges. :)
>
> Any particular reason for wanting to make two mitered cuts to fit the
> crossmembers instead of one?
>
> I believe in one of Tony B's books he gives examples of the various ways
> you could fit crossmembers when building wing ribs, and those principles
> would carry over to the fuselage. It doesn't so much matter how you fit t
he
> intersection of crossmembers and longerons. You gain no more strength fro
m
> your double mitered joint on the right than is given by the plans fitment
on
> the left, as zero strength is derived from the butt joints of
> crossmember-longeron-crossmember. All of the strength of that joint comes
> from the gussets tying everything together. The plans fitment requires on
ly
> one mitered cut; multiply that out over all the pieces you have to fit an
d
> you'll save some time and hassle.
>
> As an aside, the plans fitment on the left appears to cover more surface
> area, but I would imagine that's because this is not an exact, scale
> representation of the joint/gusset....
>
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Michael Perez
> > wrote:
>
>> The plans call for wedges in certain locations on the sides of the
>> fuselage. I have attached a picture of what the prints show and what I a
m
>> doing. On the left of the vertical piece, the print shows the angled pie
ce
>> attaching as shown at the bottom. On the right of the vertical, the way
I am
>> cutting my pieces to fit. (Angle cut both sides of the piece to fit up
>> against vertical piece.)
>>
>> Cutting in this way, I wonder if the wedge is necessary? Using the prin
t
>> sized 2-1/4" gussets, the wedge for "my side" of the drawing are very, v
ery
>> small.
>>
>> (Having said all of this, I am using the wedges to fill the area under t
he
>> gussets....just curious if it is required.)
>>
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piete
npol-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Jake,
No stand needed, just use the bellhousing. Leave the bellhousing on, and
stand the engine upright on the bellhousing. You can then strip all the
accouterments off to get at the basic long block, take the heads, cylinders,
pistons and rods off, etc. Once you have it stripped down that far it will
be much lighter and easy to deal with; you can lay the case down on some
wood blocking, remove the bellhousing, and split the case. Remember to drain
the oil before you tip it up and start disassembling it.
You say it's garage kept....make sure to still verify that the engine turns,
if possible. Good luck!
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:38 AM, wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I won't know till later today, but I may have found an entire garage kept
> 66 corvair, with 110 hp engine, for 400 bucks, and while I am still early
> in the building phase of my plane, I don't want to pass this up. Does
> anyone have drawings/plans/sketches for a corvair engine stand. My
> thoughts are to remove the engine and then rid myself of the car, so as to
> avoid undo yipping from the better half, put the engine on a stand and that
> way I can begin conversion, during construction down times. And yes I have
> ordered my conversion manual.
>
>
> Jake
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage wedges on sides |
Thanks Ryan, good intell.- I guess I generated a little extra work on my
part... if nothing else, I got better at making miter cuts and slightly bet
ter at drawing using PAINT on the computer...--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
The answer to your question depends on what the joint is to be used for.
If it will be ungussetted, and butt-glued on the orange lines, and the
diagonal member will be subjected to upward forces, then the lower joint
is better. BUT if you are talking about this joint being used for the
side of a Pietenpol fuselage, where the joints will be adequately
gussetted (and blocked where called for), then there is no appreciable
benefit of one over the other. Especially in the foreward part of the
fuselage, where the entire sides are completely covered by a huge
gusset.
Ryan referred to the gussets supplying all of the strength in a
gussetted joint. While not 100% true (the butt joint does provide an
insignificant amount of strength), this is a good way to look at things.
The gussets are FAR more important than the mitering (or not) of the
sticks behind the gusset. Refer to the three attachments, which are
clips from articles written by the late, great Tony Bingelis. The glue
joint between a diagonal (or longeron) and the gusset can be looked at
as an edge joint, therefore, the bigger the contact area between the
stick and the gusset, the more strength can be transferred from the
spruce to the plywood. As you can see in the Rib Joint Options sketch,
in the upper left corner, Bingelis shows a wing rib with the diagonals
cut square (no angled cuts). This could prove to be a time-saving
technique for anyone mass-producing wing ribs - but the craftsman in me
simply would not allow myself to do it - yet it will not compromise the
integrity of the rib.
Michael, in your original sketch, where you have the gusset indicated,
the horizontal line of the gusset shouls extend to the other edge of the
diagonal (for either option). This will practically double the contact
area between the diagonal and the gusset, and thus make the joint much
stronger. I have added (in red) a couple of lines to illustrate.
On a side note, I've gotta say what a great resource the EAA has now
that all past issues of Sport Aviation are now digitally archived and
available for free access by all EAA members. I just went to the
archives and did a search, and found what I was looking for. Just
accessing the archives is worth the membership fee.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Here is another sketch, not to scale with the glue joints highlighted.
Is on better then the other? I don't want to drag this out more then it
needs to be, but I am curious. Thanks again...and if I come across in my
posts as a non-advice taking know it all, I am not trying to be. I have
a lot of ideas and questions and some, if not most will show up here on
the list. "You may fire when ready."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com> |
Michael (in Maine),
If there were no gussets being glued to the sticks, yes, that would be
the way to go (such as with a welded steel frame). With the wooden
frame, properly gussetted, the mis-alignment is inconsequential.
Strangely enough, if you look at the Pietenpol plans (1933 version), the
steel tube drawing doesn't detail the joints like that, but the steel
tube drawings in the older, F&G Manual drawings DO detail the joints
like that. I would go with the details in the F&G Manual if I was
building a steel tube fuse (which I'm not).
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
here is the real question, if Bernerd had the resources to buy a liberty or
a model A with all things being equal. What would he have used? An
aircraft engine of a Model A engine?
I do not discount the look, sound and feel and reliability of the Model A
engine, however we are looking at the work of a forward thinking man who's
only obvious constraint was cash, given the cash to purchase either (wwbb)
What would Bernie buy?
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
=JulystepsfooterNO115)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | New Directors for EAA |
I just got my new Sport Aviation and read that three new directors of EAA
are Homebuilders, and include Barry Davis, who formed the "Big Piet"
builder's group. Way to go Barry! We actually have a Pietenpol builder on
the EAA Board of Directors. Maybe my letter to Tom Poberezny after the
Pietenpols got short shrift in the Homebuilt Review at OSH did some good
(actually, I expect they had already chosen Barry at that time). I did
recommend to Poberezny that when he retires in two years, one of the
requirements for his successor should be that he/she had actually built an
airplane.
Congratulations, Barry!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Mikee wrote-
>Bernard used a Corvair in some of his Pietenpols
>but check with Falcon Insurance, Avemco and such and
>see if they will insure a homebuilt with a car engine.
The Ford 'A' engine is straight out of a car. You mean
they won't insure Piets with Fords, either?
>Of course some fly with no insurance...another risky thing to do.
I admit it... I fly barefoot (uninsured). No law
requires insurance and I think there are already too
many laws trying to protect us from lawsuits and lawyers
anyway, not to mention insurance requirements. I know,
I know... it is there to protect my widowed wife and
all the innocent people I kill on the way into the
ground, not my sorry butt if something happens.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I spoke with Bob Mackey (sp?) not too long ago at the Falcon Insurance
Oshkosh office and he stated they will insure a Pietenpol with a Corvair, if
the engine is built using William Wynne's methods
and parts. I don't know about cost as I did not get a quote at that time,
but they will definitely insure the combination.
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Mikee wrote-
>
> >Bernard used a Corvair in some of his Pietenpols
> >but check with Falcon Insurance, Avemco and such and
> >see if they will insure a homebuilt with a car engine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | MERFI, 9 days away |
Guys, Who plans on going to the mid eastern regional fly-in on the Sat the
12th?- It is at Urbana Grimes Airport.- They do have grass, and pavemen
t.- I am planning on flying over, leaving around 9am or so.- So if any
of you want to fly over togeather let me know, I can even gas you up here a
t centerburg (100LL).- I went last year and had a pretty good time, but t
he weather was kind of crapy in the a.m.- Let me know, my buddy might fly
over with his cub as well, so I might have to go practice my "slower" flig
ht to keep from out running him.
-
Missing out on the good flying weather due to replacing all the brake lines
on my truck, and fixing the rear bumper on my wifes car, and no they are n
ot related.
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MERFI, 9 days away |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
U2hhZC4gUmVtaW5kZXIgYmVuZGl4IG1hZ3MgYW5kIGJveCBwcmljaW5nDQoNCkpvaG4NClNlbnQg
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IGFuZCBubyB0aGV5IGFyZSBub3QgcmVsYXRlZC4NClNoYWQNCg0KDQogICAgICANCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Directors for EAA |
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
QWxsbGxsbGxsbGxyaWdodCBCYXJyeSBncmVhdCBnb2luZyEgTm93IGRvIGl0IGxpa2UgeWEgbWVh
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Cg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | alternative to nicopress |
Speaking of this month's Sport Aviation, in it there is
a nifty article on doing cable ends (thimbles) the
old-timey way, wire-wrapped and soldered. The article
is by a guy who is building a Piet, apparently not on
this list since I don't recognize the name, and it has
excellent photos and narrative on how to do cable ends
the old-style way correctly. Answered a couple of my
questions, such as why the wire wraps skip periodically
and leave a gap (to allow inspection to verify that
the cables have not slipped relative to one another)
and why the cable end is cut at an angle rather than
squarely. Really nice, and I'd say it's essential for
anyone who is building their Piet utilizing the early
methods to achieve the early look.
Even better, the author shows how to make a very secure
clamping arrangement to hold the thimble and cables in
place while the wire wraps and soldering are done. The
very same setup would be perfect for holding everything
while doing nicopress sleeves. My own experience with
them is by using the low-cost clamping tool that has
been discussed in a recent thread. My experience with
that tool is that it can be done but it takes a great
deal of patience and more hands than most of us have,
especially when installing nicos on smaller cable that
tends to squirm and move around. 1/8" cable (and larger,
if you are using any) is less problem than the smaller
stuff.
41CC actually has a couple of cable-end thimbles that
are done with wire whipping and solder. I don't know if
Joe Czaplicki or Corky corbett did them but there they
are.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternative to nicopress |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I have used that method to put loops in rope before also.
works good. Time consuming.
russell
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Speaking of this month's Sport Aviation, in it there is
> a nifty article on doing cable ends (thimbles) the
> old-timey way, wire-wrapped and soldered. The article
> is by a guy who is building a Piet, apparently not on
> this list since I don't recognize the name, and it has
> excellent photos and narrative on how to do cable ends
> the old-style way correctly. Answered a couple of my
> questions, such as why the wire wraps skip periodically
> and leave a gap (to allow inspection to verify that
> the cables have not slipped relative to one another)
> and why the cable end is cut at an angle rather than
> squarely. Really nice, and I'd say it's essential for
> anyone who is building their Piet utilizing the early
> methods to achieve the early look.
>
> Even better, the author shows how to make a very secure
> clamping arrangement to hold the thimble and cables in
> place while the wire wraps and soldering are done. The
> very same setup would be perfect for holding everything
> while doing nicopress sleeves. My own experience with
> them is by using the low-cost clamping tool that has
> been discussed in a recent thread. My experience with
> that tool is that it can be done but it takes a great
> deal of patience and more hands than most of us have,
> especially when installing nicos on smaller cable that
> tends to squirm and move around. 1/8" cable (and larger,
> if you are using any) is less problem than the smaller
> stuff.
>
> 41CC actually has a couple of cable-end thimbles that
> are done with wire whipping and solder. I don't know if
> Joe Czaplicki or Corky corbett did them but there they
> are.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another sketch |
| From: | Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com> |
I tested a rib, if you look at the old glider manuals you'll see them sand
bagging a rib,
I took a couple of boards and cut them down to the size of spars, I then
took
a rib that I wanted to destroy, gussetts one side only (not completed) I
glued the
rib in the middle of the 3 foot section of fake spars, I then set both ends
of the fake spar on saw horses, I then added 500 lb's of weight, nothing
broke,
I then went to a friend's house and got 500 pounds of tractor wheel weights
and placed 1000 pounds on the rib, WOW's all I could think.
this was 3/8 by 1/4 boat grade DF with 1/16 gl-2 birch gussets.
Most of the cross members didn't even set flush but gapped filled with raka
epoxy
and silica.
russell
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> The answer to your question depends on what the joint is to be used for.
> If it will be ungussetted, and butt-glued on the orange lines, and the
> diagonal member will be subjected to upward forces, then the lower joint is
> better. BUT if you are talking about this joint being used for the side of a
> Pietenpol fuselage, where the joints will be adequately gussetted (and
> blocked where called for), then there is no appreciable benefit of one over
> the other. Especially in the foreward part of the fuselage, where the entire
> sides are completely covered by a huge gusset.
> Ryan referred to the gussets supplying all of the strength in a gussetted
> joint. While not 100% true (the butt joint does provide an insignificant
> amount of strength), this is a good way to look at things. The gussets are
> FAR more important than the mitering (or not) of the sticks behind the
> gusset. Refer to the three attachments, which are clips from articles
> written by the late, great Tony Bingelis. The glue joint between a diagonal
> (or longeron) and the gusset can be looked at as an edge joint, therefore,
> the bigger the contact area between the stick and the gusset, the more
> strength can be transferred from the spruce to the plywood. As you can see
> in the Rib Joint Options sketch, in the upper left corner, Bingelis shows a
> wing rib with the diagonals cut square (no angled cuts). This could prove to
> be a time-saving technique for anyone mass-producing wing ribs - but the
> craftsman in me simply would not allow myself to do it - yet it will not
> compromise the integrity of the rib.
>
> Michael, in your original sketch, where you have the gusset indicated, the
> horizontal line of the gusset shouls extend to the other edge of the
> diagonal (for either option). This will practically double the contact area
> between the diagonal and the gusset, and thus make the joint much stronger.
> I have added (in red) a couple of lines to illustrate.
>
> On a side note, I've gotta say what a great resource the EAA has now that
> all past issues of Sport Aviation are now digitally archived and available
> for free access by all EAA members. I just went to the archives and did a
> search, and found what I was looking for. Just accessing the archives is
> worth the membership fee.
>
> Bill C.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Perez
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:53 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
>
> Here is another sketch, not to scale with the glue joints highlighted.
> Is on better then the other? I don't want to drag this out more then it
> needs to be, but I am curious. Thanks again...and if I come across in my
> posts as a non-advice taking know it all, I am not trying to be. I have a
> lot of ideas and questions and some, if not most will show up here on the
> list. "You may fire when ready."
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
| From: | "mr-fix-all" <jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com> |
OK, folks here it is, the problem is I can't definitively ID the motor, Specs:
1965 Corvair, says 500 on the fender, was licensed and driving through Jan of this
year, when the owner lost their license. apparently "garage" kept meant until
last year
See pictures: Car has 53596 miles, I was able to turn the drive pulley, the belt
was absent, so I gripped the main Harmonic balancer and turned it over a
1/4 of a turn.
it has 2 carbs, so it isn't a turbo, other than that I can't verify it's a 110
HP.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I checked the everything bracket and couldn't
find any numbers
help
Jake
--------
"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, and
those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261353#261353
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091710b_618.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091710a_194.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709c_924.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709b_172.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709a_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvai
Hi Jake,
What is your problem? It is a 1965 Corvair which means it is a 95, 110, 140 or
180 hp. All of them have the right case, right crankshaft, and unless it is
a california smog machine it probably has the right heads as well.
The car is worth the $400 to the local Corsa club or parted out. You will have
cylinder, rod, and head cores toexchange or have rebuilt for aircraft use. BUY
IT.
Do you have WW's book on corvair engine building? Or The Corvair Junkyard Primer
which gives all the engine/car information to identify what you have.
Quit cutting bait and fish!!!
Jim B.
On Sep 3, 2009, mr-fix-all wrote:
OK, folks here it is, the problem is I can't definitively ID the motor, Specs:
1965 Corvair, says 500 on the fender, was licensed and driving through Jan of this
year, when the owner lost their license. apparently "garage" kept meant until
last year
See pictures: Car has 53596 miles, I was able to turn the drive pulley, the belt
was absent, so I gripped the main Harmonic balancer and turned it over a 1/4
of a turn.
it has 2 carbs, so it isn't a turbo, other than that I can't verify it's a 110
HP.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I checked the everything bracket and couldn't
find any numbers
help
Jake
--------
"Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, and those
that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261353#261353
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091710b_618.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091710a_194.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709c_924.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709b_172.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709a_141.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine stand |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
If it's the original engine it should be correct, as Jim stated. It couldn't
hurt to check the block code to verify though. I overlaid the illustration
on where to find the block code from the Green manual on top of one of the
photos you sent. Hopefully this is clear enough:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/3885609199/sizes/o/
You'll have to dig through the grime to reveal the code, but it is there.
You are interested in the last two letters of the code. If they are:
RD, RF, RH, RX, RK, RA, RE, RG, RJ: it's a 95 or 110hp engine. Good to go.
RS, RU, RV, RW, AC, AD: these are 95 or 110hp 'smog' engines. Everything but
the heads are useable. You'll have to find a proper set of non-smog 95 to
110hp heads.
If by some oddball reason you find the following codes: YN, YM, ZF, ZG, YC,
YL, Z, ZH, ZD.....then for some reason a 1964 engine has been put into this
car. That should not be the case, but it's a 44 year old car, so who knows.
If it is a '64 code, then the only way to ensure that it would be usable
would be to remove everything from the engine to allow removal of the top
cover so you could physically verify that the crank has '8409' numbers on
it. As I said though, that is highly unlikely.
Hope that helps,
Ryan
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Jim wrote:
>
>
> Jim Boyer
> Santa Rosa, CA
> Pietenpol builder with Corvai
>
> Hi Jake,
> What is your problem? It is a 1965 Corvair which means it is a 95, 110,
> 140 or 180 hp. All of them have the right case, right crankshaft, and
> unless it is a california smog machine it probably has the right heads as
> well.
>
> The car is worth the $400 to the local Corsa club or parted out. You will
> have cylinder, rod, and head cores toexchange or have rebuilt for aircraft
> use. BUY IT.
>
> Do you have WW's book on corvair engine building? Or The Corvair Junkyard
> Primer which gives all the engine/car information to identify what you
> have.
>
> Quit cutting bait and fish!!!
> Jim B.
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2009, mr-fix-all wrote:
>
> jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com>
>
> OK, folks here it is, the problem is I can't definitively ID the motor,
> Specs:
>
> 1965 Corvair, says 500 on the fender, was licensed and driving through Jan
> of this year, when the owner lost their license. apparently "garage" kept
> meant until last year
>
> See pictures: Car has 53596 miles, I was able to turn the drive pulley, the
> belt was absent, so I gripped the main Harmonic balancer and turned it over
> a 1/4 of a turn.
>
> it has 2 carbs, so it isn't a turbo, other than that I can't verify it's a
> 110 HP.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated. I checked the everything bracket and
> couldn't find any numbers
>
> help
>
> Jake
>
> --------
> "Be who you are and say what you think, those that mind don't matter, and
> those that matter don't mind" Dr. Seuss
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261353#261353
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091710b_618.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091710a_194.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709c_924.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709b_172.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/0903091709a_141.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | In your ear headset-diy |
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t 917
From my EAA email.
Clif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MERFI, 9 days away |
I'll be there as a camp host. Looking forward to seeing Your Piet
again.
Tim White
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MERFI, 9 days away
Guys, Who plans on going to the mid eastern regional fly-in on
the Sat the 12th? It is at Urbana Grimes Airport. They do have grass,
and pavement. I am planning on flying over, leaving around 9am or so.
So if any of you want to fly over togeather let me know, I can even gas
you up here at centerburg (100LL). I went last year and had a pretty
good time, but the weather was kind of crapy in the a.m. Let me know,
my buddy might fly over with his cub as well, so I might have to go
practice my "slower" flight to keep from out running him.
Missing out on the good flying weather due to replacing all the
brake lines on my truck, and fixing the rear bumper on my wifes car, and
no they are not related.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Thanks Bill, always good to read one of your posts. I do have my gussets la
rger then I drew in my sketch in Paint.- I have them extended as you have
shown, however, this brings up yet another question then. If from what I d
rew originally and what you drew with the added size, does, in fact almost
double the contact area and add strength, why not go larger vertically as w
ell? I mean, how is one to know how large of a gusset is large enough or ge
tting to large? (or getting too small?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
A while back I acquired a wood list from someone, but I cant remember if it was
here on the mailing list of if someone e-mailed it to me. I have a 3-page scan
of an old order named Walt-1, 2 and 3, which is helpful, but that is not what
Im looking for.
The list Im thinking of was an old typed page and it had hand written notes all
over it, along with Buckeye Piet or something to that effect. Maybe it was part
of the Walt files, but I cant seem to find that particular page. Anyone know
what Im talking about?
I've already received my wood order, but I am trying to make sense of it and that
particular list included some notes for many of the parts I'm looking at.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261397#261397
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Simple..follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C's ability to
engineer, like me.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Thanks Bill, always good to read one of your posts. I do have my gussets
larger then I drew in my sketch in Paint. I have them extended as you have
shown, however, this brings up yet another question then. If from what I
drew originally and what you drew with the added size, does, in fact almost
double the contact area and add strength, why not go larger vertically as
well? I mean, how is one to know how large of a gusset is large enough or
getting to large? (or getting too small?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool |
www.woot.com
This could be useful for cleaning up extra epoxy drips, etc....makes fairly precise
cuts with minimum dust....
This is a "today only" website so if anyone is thinking about buying one, here's
a fantastic price with just $5 shipping....
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Mark,
Try here.
http://www.cpc-world.com/images/mat_list.jpg
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2009 11:30 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood List
A while back I acquired a wood list from someone, but I cant remember if it was
here on the mailing list of if someone e-mailed it to me. I have a 3-page scan
of an old order named Walt-1, 2 and 3, which is helpful, but that is not what
Im looking for.
The list Im thinking of was an old typed page and it had hand written notes all
over it, along with Buckeye Piet or something to that effect. Maybe it was part
of the Walt files, but I cant seem to find that particular page. Anyone know
what Im talking about?
I've already received my wood order, but I am trying to make sense of it and that
particular list included some notes for many of the parts I'm looking at.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261397#261397
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for the list Peter, but the one I am looking for was a very close match
to the wood package I ordered, and it also has some notes by the line items, which
identified what parts were to be used for certain assemblies.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261405#261405
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Understood Gary, I was asking an engineering question as to how the gusset
size is determined.=C2- Maybe this list is not the place to research such
things, but as always, one thing leads to another and another...
=C2-
Following the plans is the way to go, I just get curious as to how the plan
s were derived in the first place.
--- On Fri, 9/4/09, Gary Boothe wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 10:04 AM
Simple.follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C
=99s ability to engineer, like me.
=C2-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear
(14 ribs down)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch
=C2-
Thanks Bill, always good to read one of your posts. I do have my gussets la
rger then I drew in my sketch in Paint.=C2- I have them extended as you h
ave shown, however, this brings up yet another question then. If from what
I drew originally and what you drew with the added size, does, in fact almo
st double the contact area and add strength, why not go larger vertically a
s well? I mean, how is one to know how large of a gusset is large enough or
getting to large? (or getting too small?) =C2- =C2-http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution =C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
I bought one of those ($99.00 at Home Depot) and it has come in handy many, many
times in the 8 months I've had it.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261411#261411
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 2 Corvair Engines |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
I've got 2 1965 "RH" block Corvair engines for sale. Just decided that I want
to rebuild a Continental instead. I took a wrench to the lot where they were
and made sure they turned. They've been in my garage ever since. Also, have
them on wooden cradles with casters so they can be rolled around the garage.
$275 for each engine/cradle.
Northeastern, CT. Can deliver within a reasonable distance (about 100 miles) from
my house for an additional charge depending on distance.
Email me off-list.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261412#261412
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool |
| From: | Bill Princell <weprincell(at)gmail.com> |
I bought mine at Harbor Freight $39.95 on sale. Best tool in my shop
Bill Princell -
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> www.woot.com
>
> This could be useful for cleaning up extra epoxy drips, etc....makes fairly
> precise cuts with minimum dust....
>
> This is a "today only" website so if anyone is thinking about buying one,
> here's a fantastic price with just $5 shipping....
>
> jm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Fuselage "tray" for Model A |
>From what I understand, the tray area at the front fuselage was intended for model
A Ford use. I will not be using a model A and will be putting a fuel tank
up there. Can I omit this tray in the build and if so, how do I re-configure
that front area and maintain the strength required? Thanks up front.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gussets vs. Wedges |
| From: | Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com> |
Hi Folks,
I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and
I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges.
In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets
are stronger.
We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts
(particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict
or cut wedges - either will be quite easy.
My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there
an advantage to using one over the other?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool |
Best Harbor Freight tool I've ever bought! Use it all the time.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Princell
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating
Tool
I bought mine at Harbor Freight $39.95 on sale. Best tool in my shop
Bill Princell -
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Jim Markle
wrote:
www.woot.com
This could be useful for cleaning up extra epoxy drips, etc....makes
fairly precise cuts with minimum dust....
This is a "today only" website so if anyone is thinking about buying
one, here's a fantastic price with just $5 shipping....
jm
==========
st"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/04/09 05:51:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Gussets vs. Wedges |
Matt,
You need both. As someone pointed out, earlier, there are fittings that get
bolted to both sides of the wedge/gusset areas on the fuselage. I surely
don't know Mr. Pientenpol's thoughts, but the wedges appear to be backing
for the gussets, which are for strength. These are in the 4 landing gear
areas, only.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Redmond
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges
Hi Folks,
I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and
I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges.
In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets
are stronger.
We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts
(particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict
or cut wedges - either will be quite easy.
My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there
an advantage to using one over the other?
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Gussets vs. Wedges |
The plans call for gussetts and they work fine.
Date: Fri=2C 4 Sep 2009 11:34:05 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges
From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com
Hi Folks=2C
I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and
I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges
. In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another=2C that guss
ets are stronger.
We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts (parti
cularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict or c
ut wedges - either will be quite easy.
My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same=2C is ther
e an advantage to using one over the other?
Thanks!
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gussets vs. Wedges |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
August 27, 2009 - September 04, 2009
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ie