Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ig
September 11, 2009 - September 18, 2009
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ig
September 11, 2009 - September 18, 2009
McPherson, KS.
>>> Mike Tunnicliffe 9/11/2009 4:20 PM >>>
Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the
air, I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
regards Mike T
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS.....
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Apparently she didn't need no stinkin' hands on the
stinkin' controls, either.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Fwd: EAA SportAir Workshop Alert: RV Assembly Course at
Frederick, Maryland
Now hers a timely topic, looks like box O airplane sponsorship. I guess
there is not enough sponsorship dollars available for a build a Pietenpol
seminar series.
John
____________________________________
From: sportair(at)eaa.org
Sent: 9/11/2009 4:35:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: EAA SportAir Workshop Alert: RV Assembly Course at Frederick,
Maryland
Dear EAA Member:
EAA SportAir Workshops returns to Frederick, Maryland for a two-day Van's
Aircraft RV Assembly course the weekend of October 24-25, 2009. EAA Chapt
er
524 will host the seminar at its Aviation Education center located at the
Frederick Municipal Airport. There is still space available for aspiring
RV
homebuilders.
This pioneering RV course is an intensive weekend seminar. "Hands-on"
practice provides the skills, experience, and confidence required to asse
mble
your airplane. In addition, we'll discuss Federal Aviation Regulations
pertaining to amateur-built aircraft; required tools and workshop essenti
als;
engine and propeller selection; flight-testing; and more. This course wil
l
get you well on your way to successfully completing your RV project!
The course is limited to 16 students and there is currently space
available, so sign up today! EAA members receive a special discount price
of $319,
which includes all materials and equipment.
As a special incentive, and in support of the workshop program, Van's
Aircraft offers a special $50 discount on an aircraft kit to all workshop
attendees.
See the courses in action on the _EAA Video Player_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398715&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.eaa.org/video/
eaa.html?videoId=1539906075) ._
Find out the details_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398716&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.sportair.com/workshops/index.html) on all
the courses.
View the complete _SportAir Schedule_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398717&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.sportair.com/schedule.html)
.
If you are interested in registering for this class, or would like more
information, please call 800-967-5746 or visit _www.sportair.com_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398718&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.spor
tair.com) for additional details.
Best Regards,
EAA SportAir Workshops
Oshkosh, Wisconsin
_www.sportair.com_
(http://www.mmsend2.com/ls.cfm?r=220270673&sid=7398719&m=816390&u=
ExAA2&s=http://www.sportair.com)
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=A9 2009
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com>
Good reason to use intumescent paint on the firewall or anywhere else fire
is a possibility.
http://www.contegointernational.com/
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Mike Tunnicliffe wrote:
> Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The
> muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the
> exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the fuel
> drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight fibreglass
> cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of seconds. When
> throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a circut and
> landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable stretch of
> coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would have been very
> different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the epoxy bonding the ply
> was still in good condition, I guess the ply limited the heat transfered
> through. Changes made after this incident: muffler made of heavier and less
> brittle grade of stainless, supported further away from fuse and flexibly
> mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The story does not stop there as the new
> muffler had a tail pipe that was horizontal with the bottom of the fuse, and
> on the next flight I felt a little off colour, I then saw the CO indicator
> was black. Time to get back on the deck and modify the exhaust yet again. I
> now do thorough checks after making any changes as the unexpected can and
> does happen. The aircraft in question was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a
> Pietenpol.
> regards Mike T.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* TOM STINEMETZE
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:37 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
>
> *Mike:*
> **
> *That sounds like a story we would all need to hear. It might save
> somebody some heartache someday.*
> **
> *Stinemetze*
> *McPherson, KS.*
>
>
> >>> Mike Tunnicliffe 9/11/2009 4:20 PM >>>
> Having been in a wood and fabric aircraft that has caught fire in the air,
> I have to say the epoxy did hold up well.
> regards Mike T
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dog67(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 11, 2009
Subject: Re: Pat Benatar didn't need no stinkin GPS.....
Ya.. but the T-6 was deadly in a dogfight.. right?
In a message dated 9/11/2009 4:43:52 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
taildrags(at)hotmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga
Apparently she didn't need no stinkin' hands on the
stinkin' controls, either.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Subject: Re: Aileron Hinges
From: steven sadler <steven244sadler(at)gmail.com>
Shad,
Thanks for the info. It sure is nice to get feedback from the community of
builders.
I have my 2" hinges on order now.
Again, Thanks
Steve
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:55 AM, shad bell wrote:
>
> I believe Dad's aileron hinges are 2" as well, however I believe his are
> the rolled type, not extruded. I know the extruded are the recomended type,
> but the only time I saw them unroll was when I was in a full power dive at
> 400mph in a flour bombing contest...ha ha ha. Either one will work on a
> piet, just keep them streight when you drill the screw holes or they will
> bind up when moved.
>
> Sometimes even with speed, Less is more. Less speed, less money, more
> longevity,
>
> Shad
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet builders' workshop
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Windshields
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a couple
weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the windshields
done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved
shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I have
seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones to
even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flying
behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turbulence
yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appreciate
some advice. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Subject: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh? YES
From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen(at)gmail.com>
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV.
The SportAir workshops cover some other of the basic building
techniques. They have one for composite, and another for fabric
covering, in addition to sheet metal.
>Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
If it was in the middle third of the country, I would.
>I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
Well, Florida's doable for me. California means flying, so I'd have
to decide if it's worth the extra hundreds of dollars to go to one
there.
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event;
Ah...there's the issue. To make something like this fly, someone has
to put shoulder to the wheel and make it happen. Beyond that, someone
else has to make the commitment to deliver building materials.
Someone else again has to agree to teach it and come up with enough
exercises.
> I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
I for one would like to do a weekend's worth of building a wing rib or
two before putting money down on plans for Pietenpol or some such. If
one were offered, say, in the next year and a half, I'd definitely be
interested.
My take:
I think that a Pietenpol-specific workship is a mistake. What people
really want to do is spend a weekend learning the techniques to build
a wood airplane, and to see if they like it. So cutting wood into
capstrips and the like, building a rib, varnishing, sanding, and
whatever else it is that you do. Any wood airplanes are going to have
all those same steps, so there's no reason to specialize the workshop.
I think the best chance to make something like this happen is as
follows. Sportair is headquartered in Oshkosh, Wisonsin. At the
Oshkosh location and no other, they have the "Discover Aircraft
Building" course.
http://www.sportair.com/workshops/Discover Aircraft Building.html
That course is four-courses in one over a weekend. They do half a day
each on wood construction, fabric covering, sheet metal and composite.
I actually called SportAir this last week asking about a wood
construction course, and they told me that they didn't do it any more
for lack of interest. It might be worth asking them how many people
would need to sign up for them to offer the course again. They might
be willing to do a one-off run of the course.
SportAir does their workshops at Oshkosh in January; in 2010 it's
going to be January 30 and 31. The question then, is, how many folks
on this list would sign up to take that course if they offered it. If
Sportair offered the wood construction course this coming January 30
and 31, at the same time as the other SportAir workshops, for, say,
$250, would anyone on this list take it?
I'm sort of interested in Pietenpols, and wood building in general. I
would definitely take it.
Craig Steffen
southeast Kentucky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Piet builders' workshop
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Oscar,
Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N.
California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan:
We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and
interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week
on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house,
Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time
"strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols
so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan,
requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make
that long flight.
I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could
undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we
don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come
up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!"
Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an
enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good
sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but
there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are
certainly individualists.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Windshields
One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington State
did....
He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairly stiff
posterboard. He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the plane.
While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns, tilted them,
moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that gave him what he
wanted for wind deflection.
That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not? The windshield
doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it sooner.
That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me....
Jim in NE Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
>From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
>
>
>Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a couple
weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the windshields
done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a single curved
shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast Piet site I have
seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide almost vertical ones
to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that have experience in flying
behind them can give me your take on what works best to give the least turbulence
yet minimal drag. they probably don't go well together but anyway-I'd appreciate
some advice. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Oscar
There are 3 groups of people in this
People that have piets
People building piets
People interested in building
Why go east and west
Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend and no one
is required cross country
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago by car or air
There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no stinkin Box O
Airplane factory guy more like component guys are better wicks, ac spruce craftsman,
roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henrob. Guys that stand to make
a buck from piet builders and see if they will lend or send demo guys, instructors
and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys.
I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee. Naturally part
of the program will have to point towards intellectual issues like understanding
the prints, making inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national
network of in process builders in the area to help out
Just some thoughts
Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders
sites will provide access to the larger market that do no know about this
board. I believe the market is much larger than we really know.
How's that for ideas and comment?
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar, How about holding one in the Grand Republic of Texas? Centralized and good
weather. Heck their is an airport near SA that would be great.
OR an alternative to a national meeting is what the Bonanza people do (I know A
spam can but a nice spam can) and that is to plan events in different regions.
OR tie in with an EAA group and host an event that is focused on Pietenpol building
skills that different homebuilders can attend.
Blue Skies,
Steve "The Good Idea Faery" D.
Yes, I own a 1948 Beech Bonanza, It came as a kit, (that you disassembled, fixed
and made parts and then reassembled.)
8T8 and working in Austin.
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009 13:24
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
>
> Oscar
>
> There are 3 groups of people in this
>
> People that have piets
> People building piets
> People interested in building
>
> Why go east and west
>
> Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can
> attend and no one is required cross country
>
> Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago
> by car or air
>
> There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no
> stinkin Box O Airplane factory guy more like component guys are
> better wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller
> electric, henrob. Guys that stand to make a buck from piet
> builders and see if they will lend or send demo guys, instructors
> and class practice supplies and or displays with answer guys.
>
> I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee.
> Naturally part of the program will have to point towards
> intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making
> inferential decisions, pre build decisions and a national network
> of in process builders in the area to help out
>
> Just some thoughts
>
> Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA,
> POA and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market
> that do no know about this board. I believe the market is much
> larger than we really know.
>
> How's that for ideas and comment?
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol builders Board
> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
> Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
>
>
>
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
>
> The big builders' workshops have both east and west
> coast venues due to the high interest in some of
> the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
>
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
> My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
> personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
> since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
> group setting would not really interest too many of
> the type of people who want to build Piets.
>
> Comments?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Windshields
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Raymond,
Sounds to me a lot like picking a woman...
But, Jim may have just posted the end-all, be-all post on the matter!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
One of the best ideas I've seen is what Larry Prange up in NW Washington
State did....
He cut several different size windshield patterns out of some kind of fairly
stiff posterboard. He then started his Model A engine and sat inside the
plane. While he was sitting there he held up the windshield patterns,
tilted them, moved them around, etc, until he found a size and angle that
gave him what he wanted for wind deflection.
That does mean waiting until the engine is running but...why not? The
windshield doesn't have to be done until the very end unless you want it
sooner.
That just seemed like a pretty neat idea to me....
Jim in NE Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
>From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Windshields
>
>
>Well it looks like I have got done with my working away from home for a
couple weeks and have some time to build.I think one project will be get the
windshields done and on my GN-1 I got from D.J. - I expect I'll go with a
single curved shield as opposed to a 3 piece but looking at the West Coast
Piet site I have seen everything from tall narrow ones to big fat wide
almost vertical ones to even a flat plate type.I am hoping some of you that
have experience in flying behind them can give me your take on what works
best to give the least turbulence yet minimal drag. they probably don't go
well together but anyway-I'd appreciate some advice. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262705#262705
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2009
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Now if we can just get some of those northern piets to come south to georgia or
texas we could have some great fun. I have been to C37 3 times and it is great
and they do a wonderful job. I suggest Carrolton, Ga. because the have a great
facility. That is where the Big Piet buillders are . I am just south of there
in Lagrange, and besides me there are two others building. How about it pieters?
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. PS I am getting tired
of trying to read some of the listings. Is that what they call texting? Or
do some of the listers are just trying to be funny? I don't understand half of
it since I am kind of slow. Cheers, Gardiner Mason. "GEORGIA ON MY MIND"
----- Original Message ----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 12:33:51 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar,
Not that it's not a good idea, but I probably would not attend. We (N.
California Pietenpol builders) are attacking from a different battle plan:
We have so far gathered a loose list of about 12-14 builders, owners and
interested individuals, who are all gathering for the first time next week
on September 19. The meeting will be at a centrally located builder's house,
Mike Weaver, where we will spend an inordinate amount of time
"strategorizing" about how we will complete a large squadron of Pietenpols
so that we can attack and over-run Brodhead. It's a complex battle plan,
requiring individual effort, group co-ordination, and determination to make
that long flight.
I know you have a number of builders and owners in Texas, and could
undoubtedly do something similar. We might consider joining forces, but we
don't have a cool battle cry like, "REMEMBER THE ALAMO!", but we might come
up with something next weekend, like.... "SURF'S UP, DUDE!"
Anyhow, like MC says, "I digress." The main thing is that it has been an
enormous boost to me to have local builders who are friends and are good
sources of info and assistance. This List is obviously that way, too, but
there is nothing like face-to-face camaraderie. And, as you say, we are
certainly individualists.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 12, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them piets=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <a
msafetyc(at)aol.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol builders Board =0ASent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenp
amsafetyc(at)aol.com=0A=0AOscar=0A=0AThere are 3 groups of people in this=0A
=0APeople that have piets=0APeople building piets=0APeople interested in bu
ilding=0A=0AWhy go east and west=0A=0AWhy not one event in the middle of th
e country so everyone can attend and no one is required cross country=0A=0A
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin- by or through chicago by car
or air=0A=0AThere are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need
no stinkin Box O Airplane- factory guy more like component guys are bette
r wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric, henr
ob.- Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if they wi
ll lend or send- demo guys, instructors and class practice supplies and o
r displays with answer guys. =0A=0AI wonder how many would be interested in
that for a modest fee. Naturally part of the program will have to point to
wards intellectual issues like understanding the prints, making inferential
decisions, pre build decisions and a national network of in process builde
rs in the area to help out=0A=0AJust some thoughts=0A=0AAlso not all builde
rs know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA and hombuilders sites wil
l provide access to the larger market that do no know about this board. I b
elieve the market is much larger than we really know. =0A=0AHow's that for
ideas and comment?=0A=0AJohn=0A------Original Message------=0AFrom: Oscar Z
uniga=0ASender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0ATo: Pietenpol b
uilders Board=0AReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board=0ASent: Sep 12, 2009 11:2
9 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-
List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga =0A=0A=0AWell,
let's air out an idea, then.- EAA, Aircraft=0ASpruce, and others hold bui
lders' workshops a=0Acouple of times a year at different venues, mostly=0Af
or things like the Zenith and RV.- Let's suppose=0Asomeone organized an A
ir Camper builders' workshop=0Aand got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft
Spruce=0Abehind it.- Would people come to such an event?=0A=0AThe big bu
ilders' workshops have both east and west=0Acoast venues due to the high in
terest in some of=0Athe plane-in-a-box designs.- I doubt that the Air=0AC
amper interest would be high enough for more than=0Aone such event in any g
iven year, and it would=0Aprobably be held in Florida or California.=0A=0AI
'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just=0Awondering if scratch b
uilders are of the same mindset=0Aas kit builders in wanting to attend a gr
oup workshop.=0AMy opinion is that we are mostly individualists and=0Aperso
nal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely=0Asince I am not particula
rly crafty), and that a=0Agroup setting would not really interest too many
of=0Athe type of people who want to build Piets.=0A=0AComments?=0A=0AOscar
Zuniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.co
m=0Awebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASent from my
==
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2009
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U2VudCBmcm9tIG15ID09PQ0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael McGowan" <shadetree(at)socket.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Maybe Wicks would sponser a workshop at their place. They have the wood,
they have the equipment, they have the woodworking expertise, and we
could all pick up wood and supplies while we were there and they would
make money. We would also get to see some really neat pipe organs and
how they build them.
Mike just getting started
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Actually I figured the too were part of the group. I am not going to
exclude them I would rather they did participate and the 612 rib guys
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: H RULE
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Don't forget those that have GN-1 Aircampers and like to call them
piets
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "amsafetyc(at)aol.com" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
To: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:15:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar
There are 3 groups of people in this
People that have piets
People building piets
People interested in building
Why go east and west
Why not one event in the middle of the country so everyone can attend
and no one is required cross country
Most anyone can get to indiana or Wisconsin by or through chicago by
car or air
There are enough builders to teach the sessions so don't need no
stinkin Box O Airplane factory guy more like component guys are better
wicks, ac spruce craftsman, roybe, stewart systems, miller electric,
henrob. Guys that stand to make a buck from piet builders and see if
they will lend or send demo guys, instructors and class practice
supplies and or displays with answer guys.
I wonder how many would be interested in that for a modest fee.
Naturally part of the program will have to point towards intellectual
issues like understanding the prints, making inferential decisions, pre
build decisions and a national network of in process builders in the
area to help out
Just some thoughts
Also not all builders know this site so advertising on the AOPA, POA
and hombuilders sites will provide access to the larger market that do
no know about this board. I believe the market is much larger than we
really know.
How's that for ideas and comment?
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To: Pietenpol builders Board
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlList"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="
http://forums.matronics.com/" nbsp; -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
=B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=03g('=8A=D3M=D3Gq=A2z=C1=AE
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation
Date: Sep 12, 2009
After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
Tom Poberezny:
Tom Poberezny
President, Experimental Aircraft Association
P.O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
August 3rd,
2009
Dear Mr. Poberezny,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was that
I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the end
of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuilt
Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to celebrate
the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man out
(which was me) did not get to fly.
I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time to
be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so we
get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board.
I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft,
preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
Sincerely,
Jack Phillips
EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
2005)
cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter,
without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
Jack,
Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
Please know that your thoughts are important.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
Chairman of the Board & President
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.4810
Fax: 920.426.4878
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands
for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. I
realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have
no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
visit to Oshkosh, an!
d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the world
where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft,
in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Jack
Well done it appears to me that the EAA is now upside down in its approach to honoring
its roots which should always be first and the centerpiece.
Without wilbur and orvile there would be no piper jet or big honkin airbus 380.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:42:37
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
Tom Poberezny:
Tom Poberezny
President, Experimental Aircraft Association
P.O. Box 3086
Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
August 3rd,
2009
Dear Mr. Poberezny,
I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was that
I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the end
of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuilt
Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to celebrate
the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man out
(which was me) did not get to fly.
I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time to
be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so we
get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board.
I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft,
preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
Sincerely,
Jack Phillips
EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
2005)
cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter,
without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
Jack,
Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
Please know that your thoughts are important.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
Chairman of the Board & President
EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
Phone: 920.426.4810
Fax: 920.426.4878
www.eaa.org
See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands
for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. I
realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have
no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
visit to Oshkosh, an!
d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the world
where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft,
in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
place for only one week of the year.
It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Jack, Thank you for your thoughtful and to the point comments!--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
> After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> Tom Poberezny:
>
> Tom Poberezny
> President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> P.O. Box 3086
> Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
> 2009
> Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
> I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
> to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
> understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
> to
> get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
> I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
> I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
> homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
> Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
> mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
> that
> I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
> 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
> hour
> pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the
> end
> of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
> Homebuilt
> Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to
> celebrate
> the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man
> out
> (which was me) did not get to fly.
>
> I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
> to
> be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
> to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
> demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
> plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
> we
> get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
> I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
> President
> of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
> Board.
> I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
> am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
> aircraft,
> preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
> building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
> much
> richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
> the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
> 2003)
> Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> 2005)
>
> cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
> To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
> letter,
> without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
> future,
> and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
> comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
> the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
> do
> better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
> Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> Chairman of the Board & President
> EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> Phone: 920.426.4810
> Fax: 920.426.4878
>
> www.eaa.org
>
> See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
> Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
> on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
> is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Church
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
>
> Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
> The
> "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
> stands
> for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
> is
> a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
> and
> that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
> I
> realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
> have
> no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
> much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
> and
> as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
> the
> virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> visit to Oshkosh, an!
> d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
> connected
> to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
> world
> where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
> aircraft,
> in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
> can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
> Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> place for only one week of the year.
> It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
> play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
> needed
> a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Date: Sep 12, 2009
I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders
workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that,
but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone. That
has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it
was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project
to make some fast progress on let me know.
Dick N
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
From: "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sep 12, 2009
how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see some
training vids on piet building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Date: Sep 12, 2009
Buy Mike Cuy's excellent video on building and flying his Piet. You can get
it at: http://www.flyingwood.com/NX48MC.htm
It is almost as useful as the set of 4 Tony Bingelis books.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of regchief
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet builders' workshop
how about someone just producing a good video series. I would love to see
some training vids on piet building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262743#262743
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Oscar;
Why not tie an event like a Piet "wood" builders event in with Copperstate at Casa
Grande, AZ in October? This Oct may be too soon (or not) but next year gives
13 months to plan and organize it.
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
On Sep 12, 2009, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
behind it. Would people come to such an event?
The big builders' workshops have both east and west
coast venues due to the high interest in some of
the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
Camper interest would be high enough for more than
one such event in any given year, and it would
probably be held in Florida or California.
I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
group setting would not really interest too many of
the type of people who want to build Piets.
Comments?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 12, 2009
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens to
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
information.
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at our
EAA meeting the other night.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden fighters
in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley wrote:
>
> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack
> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
> there :)
>
> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
>
> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a
> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it
> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens
> to
> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> information.
>
> Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at
> our
> EAA meeting the other night.
>
> Shad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Jack et al,
I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of your
points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past year
or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very
much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and better
yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA, as
wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the same
problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online
communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same
small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much
more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actually
gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to say
that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or
even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport
Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, and
it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and have
deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very
noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a
reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues.
I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, BUT
I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight,
not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very
embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight.
As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent
when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we all
could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a very
few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only
about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think there
was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess but
given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to
it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have
come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe
they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The best
thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did
what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance to
correct it.
EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at
supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping things
going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day
towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a
lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So...
Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and
ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a
paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, but
let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming
issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already
planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even
write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it.
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
> After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> Tom Poberezny:
>
> Tom Poberezny
> President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> P.O. Box 3086
> Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
> 2009
> Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
> I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
> to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
> understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
to
> get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
> I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
> I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
> homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
> Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
> mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
that
> I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
> 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
hour
> pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the
end
> of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
Homebuilt
> Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to
celebrate
> the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man
out
> (which was me) did not get to fly.
>
> I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
to
> be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
> to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
> demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
> plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
we
> get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
> I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
President
> of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
Board.
> I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
> am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
aircraft,
> preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
> building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
much
> richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
> the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Jack Phillips
> EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
2003)
> Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> 2005)
>
> cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
> To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
letter,
> without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
> Jack,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
future,
> and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
> comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
> the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
do
> better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
> Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> Chairman of the Board & President
> EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> Phone: 920.426.4810
> Fax: 920.426.4878
>
> www.eaa.org
>
> See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
> Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
> on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
> is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Church
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
> Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
The
> "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
stands
> for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
is
> a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
and
> that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
I
> realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
have
> no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
> much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
and
> as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
the
> virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> visit to Oshkosh, an!
> d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
connected
> to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
world
> where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
aircraft,
> in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
> can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
> Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> place for only one week of the year.
> It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
> play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
needed
> a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Hi, the British actually did, and it was one of the most successfull
designs of the war, my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito
fighter / bomber.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden
fighters
in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
Russell
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley
wrote:
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered
for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's
gotta be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
"proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51
mustang? It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970.
It had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air
force so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens to
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for
some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
information.
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo
pepper at our
EAA meeting the other night.
st Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Well said,
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Mike Whaley wrote:
>
> Jack et al,
>
> I certainly think that many folks agree, in all or part, with many of your
> points and concerns. But to be fair, let's not forget that in the past year
> or so, EAA has launched the new "Experimenter" newsletter, which is very
> much oriented towards the scratch-builder/experimental aspects... and
> better
> yet, has made it available to all who want it, not just EAA members. EAA,
> as
> wonderful and skilled as they are in many areas, still suffers from the
> same
> problem that most EAA chapters, churches, civic organizations, online
> communities, and virtually every other group on earth faces... the same
> small core group of folks does most of the work, and there's always much
> more to do than there are folks willing and/or able to do it. EAA actually
> gets things done better than most groups overall, I think. That's not to
> say
> that they shouldn't have covered the Piets... or the T-28 anniversary... or
> even the nearly NTSB-investigation-worthy arrival of the A380. But Sport
> Aviation would have to be 400 pages long to cover everything properly, and
> it would take 5 months to write, edit, and produce! They're human and have
> deadlines and make mistakes (heck, last month's Sport Pilot had a very
> noticeable typo... right on the cover!) Not the end of the world, but a
> reminder that things do slip through the cracks, even in the big leagues.
> I'm not saying it's acceptable that they didn't cover the Piets at all, BUT
> I strongly suspect that it was little more than an embarassing oversight,
> not a wilful desire to cut the Piets out, and they might even be very
> embarassed over it, now that they've been made aware of the oversight.
>
> As for the fly-bys, I remember the same kind of issues becoming apparent
> when they had 7 different Trimotors doing fly-bys a few years ago... we all
> could have watched it all day, but they only were able to do it for a very
> few minutes, despite the truly historic nature of such a collection (only
> about 4 were Fords... one was a Junkers, one was a seaplane, I think there
> was something else too...) It does sound like it ended up being a mess but
> given the insane air traffic situation there, it's possible there's more to
> it than one or two guys dropping the ball. Heck, some of that could have
> come down from the FAA or even their insurance carriers, who knows. Maybe
> they're just trying to cram in too much for the time they alotted. The best
> thing to do is to thoroughly document the problems and who said and did
> what, and let them know (which you already did)... and give them a chance
> to
> correct it.
>
> EAA isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than any other group at
> supporting the kind of aviation we all enjoy, and is vital in keeping
> things
> going in the face of a government that gets more oppressive by the day
> towards aviation. They need our support and turning these problems into a
> lets-bash-EAA party WILL hurt us. So...
>
> Let's adopt the homebuilder spirit here and offer positive solutions and
> ideas, and move on from there. Sure there should have been at least a
> paragraph of two and a photo in with the rest of all the OSH coverage, but
> let's encourage them to consider publishing a full article in an upcoming
> issue that will provide more room for real info. Maybe they're already
> planning this, who knows. Those of you who directly took part might even
> write something yourselves, I just bet they'd welcome it.
>
> -Mike
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 8:42 PM
> Subject: [piet] RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
>
> >
> > After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
> > Tom Poberezny:
> >
> > Tom Poberezny
> > President, Experimental Aircraft Association
> > P.O. Box 3086
> > Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> > August 3rd,
> > 2009
> > Dear Mr. Poberezny,
> >
> > I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
> > Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the
> membership
> > to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
> > heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
> > resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
> > understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try
> to
> > get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news,
> as
> > I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
> >
> > I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
> > its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
> > homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
> > seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
> >
> > Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
> > Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
> > mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was
> that
> > I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
> > On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end
> of
> > 36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two
> hour
> > pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the
> end
> > of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the
> Homebuilt
> > Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to
> celebrate
> > the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man
> out
> > (which was me) did not get to fly.
> >
> > I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
> > flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time
> to
> > be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is
> unclear
> > to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA
> has
> > demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
> > plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so
> we
> > get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
> >
> > I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as
> President
> > of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the
> Board.
> > I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
> > expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation.
> I
> > am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
> > However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
> > successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental
> aircraft,
> > preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and
> currently
> > building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is
> much
> > richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is
> still
> > the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award
> 2003)
> > Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
> > 2005)
> >
> > cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
> >
> >
> >
> > To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the
> letter,
> > without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
> >
> > Jack,
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its
> future,
> > and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
> > comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
> > organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and
> at
> > the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to
> do
> > better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
> > Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
> > Please know that your thoughts are important.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
> > Chairman of the Board & President
> > EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
> > Phone: 920.426.4810
> > Fax: 920.426.4878
> >
> > www.eaa.org
> >
> > See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
> >
> > Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry
> Davis
> > on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think
> it
> > is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
> > Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
> >
> > Jack Phillips
> > NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
> > Raleigh, NC
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Church
> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
> >
>
> >
> > Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for.
> The
> > "E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it
> stands
> > for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
> > factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there
> is
> > a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
> > definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts,
> and
> > that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization.
> I
> > realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely
> have
> > no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and
> would
> > much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" -
> and
> > as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly,
> the
> > virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
> > North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
> > visit to Oshkosh, an!
> > d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT
> connected
> > to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
> > manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
> > ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the
> world
> > where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
> > airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird
> aircraft,
> > in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that
> Oshkosh
> > can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a
> few).
> > Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
> > co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
> > place for only one week of the year.
> > It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
> > the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going
> to
> > play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
> > article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
> > they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they
> needed
> > a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
> >
> > Bill C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy and the
temperature that it burns, it is a thermal plastic
and when it catches it burns like gasoline so as I said before I am very
critical of the epoxy in the areas of the firewall
and with good reason. I have tested it in the oven and there is a reason
also that most fiberglass airplanes are painted
white, there is a reason that epoxy must be reinforced with screws in
construction in areas such as attics where there
is high heat. T-88 probably has the best heat resistance but then again if
there is a high quality glue that has better
heat resistance in the area of the fire wall then I will use it on my plane.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
>
> On another point...
> I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that catches
> fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my epoxy stands
> up to this heat".
>
> BC
>
> **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 13, 2009
A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it
looked somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was
showing me design drawings almost from the start.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Whaley<mailto:MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered
for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta
be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
"proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell"
>
To:
>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang?
It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It
had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force
so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens to
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
information.
Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper
at our
EAA meeting the other night.
Shad
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the folks at
Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic
measurements:
Length: 32.25'
Wingspan: 37.04'
Height: 13.67'
And the P-48:
Length: 34.17'
Wingspan: 41.33'
Height: 13.08'
As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan that's a
hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far being 1/2"
shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a P-51 it's an old
airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little bit shorter; maybe
that's it. :P
The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a product
of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion people. It was an
evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified P-51 that was
exported to various countries for use in counter-insurgency/CAS roles. They
called it the Turbo Mustang III, with the major mod to it being the
installation of a Rolls Royce Dart turboprop. They never got anywhere trying
to sell it to the military, so they sold the design to Piper. Piper
reengined the design with a Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48 Enforcer.
I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote
consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at
drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no
flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit
mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all of
the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have any
tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced airframes;
they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and building all of their
various models of aircraft off of the basic Mustang airframe. It was
obviously modified, extensively with some models, but it was the starting
point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper wants to engineer tooling and equipment
to start producing brand new P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me
complaining....just sounds a little ridiculous to me. :P
Have a good morning everyone!
Ryan
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
> Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it looked
> somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was showing me
> design drawings almost from the start.
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mike Whaley
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
>
> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF light-attack
> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
> there :)
>
> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>
> Mike Whaley
> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
>
> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had a
> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so it
> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens
> to
> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> information.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
All right crew, here is another one for ya...seat back plywood...are these
pieces of plywood a required structural part of the fuselage, or in theory,
would it be OK to remove them all together?- I am thinking more along th
e lines of a frame and some fabric as opposed to a solid piece of wood. Sti
ll in the planning stage, so I need to know if the solid plywood NEEDS to b
e there.
-
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Hardpoints for a Piet? Some of the initial design is already done.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Whaley <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 10:40 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
............
>
>Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
>stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely "proven
>technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>
>Mike Whaley
>MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
You keep referring to your epoxy, the epoxy you are using, etc....are you
using T-88? Just curious,
Ryan
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
> No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Seat back ply...structural?
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Yes, the plywood seatbacks need to be in place. They prevent the
fuselage from racking laterally.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back ply...structural?
All right crew, here is another one for ya...seat back
plywood...are these pieces of plywood a required structural part of the
fuselage, or in theory, would it be OK to remove them all together? I
am thinking more along the lines of a frame and some fabric as opposed
to a solid piece of wood. Still in the planning stage, so I need to know
if the solid plywood NEEDS to be there.
Thanks in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
The other really cool event to take place at Brodhead is the yearly
Grassroots MAAC (Midwest Antique Airplane Club) fly-in. My first time at
Brodhead a number of years ago was for the MAAC fly-in, only after that did
I find out about the Piet fly-in.
We spent Saturday at the airfield. It was a beautiful day with all kinds of
great antique/classic aircraft. I put up a few of the pics we took on
Flickr....you can find them here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/sets/72157622355867566/
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Windshields
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Raymond;
One idea you might try if you like the look of the
3-piece windshield but don't want to go to all the
trouble. I have not done this but have heard it
can be done.
Take a piece of Lexan and cold-bend it at the corners
where the 3-piece windshield would normally have a
joint. Shaping a single piece of Lexan should be
easier than fitting three pieces together and you
should be able to make a template by starting out
with a piece of cardboard or stiff posterboard to
get the contours at the bottom to follow the curves
of the boot cowlings. Cut out your polycarbonate
sheet to match the template and then put it in a
brake and bend it.
Once it's all shaped the way you want it, you can
even make it look like a 3-piece by attaching bent
pieces of aluminum at the edges and joints with rivets
or screws.
Again, I have not cold-bent polycarbonate myself but
I understand that it can be done. Also be aware that
polycarbonate is not friendly with some fuels and
it may cloud or craze if you get avgas on it.
As far as the height of the windshield, don't skimp
on it. Sitting straight up in the seat your eyes
should be looking over the top edge but if you need
to hunker down a bit, make sure you can get your face
down out of the wind without hunching over. The
windshields on 41CC are about right in my opinion;
you can sort of get an idea of the height of mine
relative to the underside of the centersection here:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P7090010.JPG
I even thought that a fake 4-piece could be made but
now you're talking much more work.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Windshields
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Raymond; there are plenty of other pix of the
windshields on the westcoast piet site, but as
another example of just about the right height,
here's Steve/Andrew Eldredge's Piet with people
sitting in both cockpits so you get an idea of
the geometry:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/SteveE.jpg
I believe DJ may have extended the cabanes just
a bit taller than stock on your airplane, so
"your mileage may vary" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Seat back ply...structural?
Copy Greg, just wanted to be sure.
--- On Sun, 9/13/09, gcardinal wrote:
From: gcardinal <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat back ply...structural?
Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 9:49 AM
Yes, the plywood seatbacks need to be in place. They prevent the fuselage f
rom racking laterally.
-
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat back ply...structural?
All right crew, here is another one for ya...seat back plywood...are these
pieces of plywood a required structural part of the fuselage, or in theory,
would it be OK to remove them all together?- I am thinking more along th
e lines of a frame and some fabric as opposed to a solid piece of wood. Sti
ll in the planning stage, so I need to know if the solid plywood NEEDS to b
e there.
-
Thanks in advance.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Piper's been advertising heavily for engineers and production folks lately,
ostensibly for the PiperJet... but who knows. If Mr. Beck could build a
homebuilt P-51, I'm sure that a major aircraft company could reproduce one
given the right financial incentive. Although, I agree the Air Force will
never, ever go for it... there's a bit of a "status" issue with overseas
military sales as well, most nations who would need such a plane also have a
(purely political) need to be seen as "advanced" and would rather buy 5
modern fighters to brag about to their people and surrounding countries,
than 100 Korean-era types that would actually better meet their true needs
and budget.
Of course (how's this for keeping it relevant) we Pieters have none of that.
We know that a couple of Pietenpols can easily out-match any modern fighter
in the world. They can't see the stealthy natural-composite airframe well on
radar, and better, it's visually unintrusive and therefore can sneak into
enemy territory without raising any suspicion from ground-based observers.
Once in the target area, we can drop incredible amounts of ordinance near
the target... advanced versions with an experienced pilot can, as you know,
reliably place up to 40 pounds of watermelons per mission, and you can count
on them falling within 500 feet of the target with over 75% reliability. The
trade-off being that you just need a very slightly longer lead time for
repositioning your strike force to the general area of the target (it rarely
takes more than 12 weeks to get to any combat zome on earth, so it's not too
big of a deal.) The F-22, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and Graf Zeppelin admittedly
do have slight speed advantages... but even counting the extra time to get
there, the Mighty Combat Piet can get fruit on target for orders of
magnitude fewer dollars and personnel. When you factor in the rest of the
logistics of each aircraft system, the real limiting factors aren't the
military suppply-chain bureaucracy but whether FedEx or UPS has the cheaper
shipping, and for major repairs, the distance to the nearest maintenance
outlet (such as Home Depot).
How could they NOT pick the Piet for this? If they don't, they're NUTS!
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:49 AM
Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the folks at
> Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect:
>
> http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
>
> Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic
> measurements:
>
> Length: 32.25'
> Wingspan: 37.04'
> Height: 13.67'
>
> And the P-48:
>
> Length: 34.17'
> Wingspan: 41.33'
> Height: 13.08'
>
> As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan that's
a
> hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far being 1/2"
> shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a P-51 it's an old
> airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little bit shorter; maybe
> that's it. :P
>
> The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a
product
> of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion people. It was
an
> evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified P-51 that was
> exported to various countries for use in counter-insurgency/CAS roles.
They
> called it the Turbo Mustang III, with the major mod to it being the
> installation of a Rolls Royce Dart turboprop. They never got anywhere
trying
> to sell it to the military, so they sold the design to Piper. Piper
> reengined the design with a Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48 Enforcer.
>
> I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote
> consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at
> drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no
> flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit
> mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all of
> the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have any
> tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced
airframes;
> they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and building all of
their
> various models of aircraft off of the basic Mustang airframe. It was
> obviously modified, extensively with some models, but it was the starting
> point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper wants to engineer tooling and
equipment
> to start producing brand new P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me
> complaining....just sounds a little ridiculous to me. :P
>
> Have a good morning everyone!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
>
> > A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
> > Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it
looked
> > somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was
showing me
> > design drawings almost from the start.
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Mike Whaley
> > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >
> >
> > In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
light-attack
> > aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
> > it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> > consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> > design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
> > there :)
> >
> > Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
> > stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
"proven
> > technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
> >
> > Mike Whaley
> > MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> > Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang?
It
> > was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It
had a
> > big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so
it
> > is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens
> > to
> > be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> > photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> > information.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 13, 2009
> my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito fighter / bomber.
> Regards Mike T.
Geeez, THEY pay YOU for that? Some guys just have all the luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
I will try to fly to any Piet get together. Sign me up, whether it's
"Remember the Alamo!", "Georgia on my mind", "Surf's up, dude!", or
even "On Wisconsin!" (or should that last one be "Uff da, brats are
on, dude!".
>
>Now if we can just get some of those northern piets to come south to
>georgia or texas we could have some great fun. I have been to C37 3
>times and it is great and they do a wonderful job. I suggest
>Carrolton, Ga. because the have a great facility. That is where the
>Big Piet buillders are . I am just south of there in Lagrange, and
>besides me there are two others building. How about it pieters? Any
>other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. PS I am getting
>tired of trying to read some of the listings. Is that what they call
>texting? Or do some of the listers are just trying to be funny? I
>don't understand half of it since I am kind of slow. Cheers,
>Gardiner Mason. "GEORGIA ON MY MIND"
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation
Jack,
That was a great letter. I hope they do discuss it a EAA HQ. I'm a
trustee in a big research organization and am lucky enough to help
run a few other things. The type of letter you wrote is what ends up
getting discussed A LOT in our organizations because you make it so
clear that you walk the walk and don't just talk the talk. You had a
legitimate beef and you presented in exactly that way. No whining, no
bragging, and no threats. You identified the problem, in detail,
noted your expectations, and made suggestions. That's probably one of
the most effective letters I've seen in a long time. Good job and
thanks from someone who agrees with you 100% on this.
Jeff
>
>After that mixup in the Homebuilt Review, I wrote the following letter to
>Tom Poberezny:
>
>Tom Poberezny
>President, Experimental Aircraft Association
>P.O. Box 3086
>Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086
> August 3rd,
>2009
>Dear Mr. Poberezny,
>
>I am writing this letter out of concern for the Experimental Aircraft
>Association. Last year, EAA went to some lengths to survey the membership
>to find out how the members feel about the direction the organization is
>heading. The improvements to the Airventure grounds at Oshkosh that
>resulted from that survey were well thought-out and much appreciated. I
>understand that one of the results of the survey was that EAA should try to
>get back to its roots in homebuilding aircraft. I applauded this news, as
>I'm sure did a majority of the membership.
>
>I'm concerned because I don't see the organization following through with
>its promises. Even though the EAA has said it would put more emphasis on
>homebuilding, Homebuilts and homebuilders still seem to be taking a back
>seat to high-dollar corporate sponsors.
>
>Last week I flew my Pietenpol Air Camper 700 miles from North Carolina to
>Oshkosh. The trip took me 3 days (one entire day trying to get over the
>mountains in Virginia). The primary reason I flew the Pietenpol up was that
>I had been invited by Joe Norris to fly my plane in the Homebuilt Review.
>On Wednesday I attended the flyby briefing, then taxied down to the end of
>36L with 18 other homebuilts to have our 12 minutes (of the nearly two hour
>pre-airshow festivities) of Homebuilt Review. However, once down at the end
>of the runway, we were told that only 10 of the 19 could fly - the Homebuilt
>Review was being cut short. There were three Pietenpols there, to celebrate
>the 80th anniversary of the type. We had to flip a coin and the odd man out
>(which was me) did not get to fly.
>
>I was very disappointed, but then became disgusted when I saw what was
>flying after the Homebuilt Review, that presumably caused our flight time to
>be cut short - the ill-timed market entry of the Piper Jet. It is unclear
>to me what that has to do with experimental aircraft. Once again, EAA has
>demonstrated that what matters most is money. Homebuilders (particularly
>plans-builders) don't generate much in the way of sponsorship dollars, so we
>get scant attention at what used to be OUR convention.
>
>I understand that you have expressed interest in stepping down as President
>of the organization, but will retain your position as Chairman of the Board.
>I think that you have done a tremendous amount of good in your tenure,
>expanding the association to encompass virtually all of sport aviation. I
>am particularly thankful for the development of the Young Eagles program.
>However I would like to suggest that one of the requirements for your
>successor should be that he/she had actually built an experimental aircraft,
>preferably from plans (having built the Pietenpol from plans and currently
>building an RV-10 kit, I can say that the plans-building experience is much
>richer). I think this much is owed to the organization, since it is still
>the EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft Association.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>EAA 81225 (Tech Counselor for Chapter 1114, Young Eagle Horizon Award 2003)
>Pietenpol NX899JP (winner of Outstanding Workmanship Award at AirVenture
>2005)
>
>cc: Adam Smith, Joe Norris, Mary Jones
>
>
>To my great surprise, I received an email from Tom (I had mailed the letter,
>without my email address, so he had to do some searching to find it):
>
>Jack,
>
> Thanks for your thoughtful letter of August 3rd concerning EAA, its future,
>and your attendance at AirVenture Oshkosh. I appreciate your candid
>comments and your thoughts concerning the next president of the
>organization. Your comments concerning my efforts are appreciated, and at
>the same time I'd like to recognize the fact that we need to continue to do
>better. My response if also share with Mary Jones, Adam Smith, and Joe
>Norris. Your letter will be discussed at one of our upcoming meetings.
>Please know that your thoughts are important.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tom
>
>
>Tom Poberezny, EAA #40000
>Chairman of the Board & President
>EAA-The Spirit of Aviation
>Phone: 920.426.4810
>Fax: 920.426.4878
>
>www.eaa.org
>
> See you at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh-July 26-August 1, 2010
>
>Maybe now that we have a real Pietenpol Builder in the form of Barry Davis
>on the EAA Board of Directors, we can make this idea stick. I do think it
>is somewhat ridiculous that the President of the Experimental Aircraft
>Association has never built an airplane - not even an RV.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"
>Raleigh, NC
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
>Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:49 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sport Aviation
>
>
>Seems like somebody's forgotten what the letters in the name stand for. The
>"E" in EAA does not stand for Expensive, or Executive, but rather, it stands
>for EXPERIMENTAL. By definition, that means that it is NOT certified,
>factory-built (although, maybe in the case of the new "skycrasher" there is
>a factory-built plane that does seem to be experimental). The focus
>definitely seems to be on factory-built planes more than on homebuilts, and
>that doesn't seem right, given the name and mandate of the organization. I
>realize that the vast majority of aviation enthusiasts out there likely have
>no interest in or desire to build (or assemble) their own plane, and would
>much rather buy (or just look at) something shiny and "off the shelf" - and
>as a business, the EAA needs to cater to their customers, but honestly, the
>virtual sea of 172s and Bonanzas and whatever else was parked up at the
>North end just puts me to sleep. Having said that, this year was my first
>visit to Oshkosh, an!
> d I did enjoy myself. There was a lot of stuff there that was NOT connected
>to homebuilts that I DID find interesting and entertaining, and I did not
>manage to see everything I wanted to in the three days I was there, so it
>ain't all bad, that's for sure. It is definitely the only place in the world
>where you would get to see all that they have to offer - incredible daily
>airshows, free hands-on workshops, hundreds of Vintage and Warbird aircraft,
>in addition to the Homebuilts, and the unique and rare planes that Oshkosh
>can bring (Airbus 380, White Knight 2, Lancaster bomber... to name a few).
>Airventure is a massive undertaking, and they do a fantastic job of
>co-ordinating the throngs of people and planes that converge on one small
>place for only one week of the year.
>It just seems that the very reason for EAA's existance has gotten lost in
>the shuffle. It's supposed to be about experimental aviation. I'm going to
>play the role of an optimist, and assume that the reason there wasn't an
>article about the Pietenpol anniversary in the latest issue was because
>they're working on a special tribute for an upcoming issue, and they needed
>a bit more time to give it the attention it deserves.
>
>Bill C.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262592#262592
>
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Great pics, Ryan - thanks for sharing. One of these days I'll manage to get
to Brodhead for Grassroots.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
The other really cool event to take place at Brodhead is the yearly
Grassroots MAAC (Midwest Antique Airplane Club) fly-in. My first time at
Brodhead a number of years ago was for the MAAC fly-in, only after that did
I find out about the Piet fly-in.
We spent Saturday at the airfield. It was a beautiful day with all kinds of
great antique/classic aircraft. I put up a few of the pics we took on
Flickr....you can find them here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rmueller23/sets/72157622355867566/
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
the Bell XP-77 is one of my favorites that might make a great WW II homebuilt replica.
Small, Wood, It only had a 500 HP motor and looks cool.
Blue Skies,
Steve Dortch
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 14, 2009
It's a tough job but someone has to do it, seriously I consider myself
lucky, check out www.mosquitorestoration.com
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
>> my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito fighter / bomber.
>> Regards Mike T.
>
> Geeez, THEY pay YOU for that? Some guys just have all the luck.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Hi Russel, rescorcinol adhesives are much more heat tolerant than epoxy
and could be used in the firewall area, however the engine mounts bolt
through the fuse longerons and I think if the heat were sufficiently
high and for long enough to seriously weaken the epoxy bond you would
find the cockpit untenable.
regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Ray
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy and the
temperature that it burns, it is a thermal plastic
and when it catches it burns like gasoline so as I said before I am
very critical of the epoxy in the areas of the firewall
and with good reason. I have tested it in the oven and there is a
reason also that most fiberglass airplanes are painted
white, there is a reason that epoxy must be reinforced with screws in
construction in areas such as attics where there
is high heat. T-88 probably has the best heat resistance but then
again if there is a high quality glue that has better
heat resistance in the area of the fire wall then I will use it on my
plane.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Bill Church
wrote:
Excellent points from Ryan. When in doubt, refer to the plans.
On another point...
I think that if you are in a wooden, fabric covered airplane that
catches fire, the least of your worries is going to be "I sure hope my
epoxy stands up to this heat".
BC
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Raka epoxy, everywhere except the firewall.
It'a a marine epoxy for building boats similar to west system's, it's two to
one mix and the slow
is very slow will let you presoak your wood, I mix silica in some joints
some
get ground fiberglass and silica, depends on how much gap fill, I have built
campers
boats and trailers out of it and I already had the epoxy on had and that is
what I will use.
It however begins to creep at 160 to 170 degrees.
Russell
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> You keep referring to your epoxy, the epoxy you are using, etc....are you
> using T-88? Just curious,
>
> Ryan
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Robert Ray wrote:
>
>> No I'm very concerned about the heat resistance of my epoxy
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
The Russian built fighters weren't bad, they were not up to the Folkwolf or
p-51 but they were not bad,
also the Germans wanted a wooden fighter to take on the Mosquito but the
Britished bombed there glue factory.
Regards russell
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:57 AM, Mike Tunnicliffe wrote:
> Hi, the British actually did, and it was one of the most successfull
> designs of the war, my daytime job is restoring one, the DH 98 Mosquito
> fighter / bomber.
> Regards Mike T.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Robert Ray
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:33 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
> Another interesting fact is that the US had plans to build wooden fighters
> in WW-2 in the event of invasion and our steel and aluminum supplies
> were cut off we could still get a plane in the air.
>
> Russell
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Mike Whaley wrote:
>
>> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
>>
>> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
>> light-attack
>> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
>> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
>> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
>> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
>> there :)
>>
>> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
>> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
>> "proven
>> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>>
>> Mike Whaley
>> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
>> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
>> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had
>> a
>> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so
>> it
>> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens
>> to
>> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
>> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
>> information.
>>
>> Sorry to be off topic, But I learned that after watching Waldo pepper at
>> our
>> EAA meeting the other night.
>>
>> st Un/Subscription,
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Neato pics! Thanks for sharing.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262836#262836
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Jack and Mark,
You are welcome! Only a couple Piets this year. Rob Bach had his Piet, which
I believe he was delivering to the new owner, a tall, lanky older gentleman.
Sad that Rob sold it, but then if I recall Rob is building a small Piet air
force up in Burlington...more $ for new Piets. Kurt Shipman had his Piet
there, as he said he would. Looks just as nice, but now sports a snap on
front cockpit cover. I still cannot manage to meet the man at a fly-in. Two
Grassroots and a Piet fly-in I have photographed his airplane, and still
cannot manage to speak to him. :P
We talked to John for a bit around lunchtime, but unfortunately he had
official business to get back to (that happens when you are one of the
muckety mucks), so we didn't get to visit too long. Mike C, John says hi!.
:P
We found Doc Mosher towards early evening at the pavilion, and spent at
least 45 minutes listening to some of his always interesting stories. That
was a highlight of our time there. I did notice something; we walked past
Bill Knight's hangar, and it happened to be open. There was only one
aircraft in there (I think a Taylorcraft). The 'Last Original' was not
there, and I never saw it all day long so I don't think it was out flying.
Has anybody heard anything of it lately? Down for maintenance/restoration,
or did Bill sell it? I would have talked to Bill, but we didn't run into
him.
All in all it was an absolutely beautiful day at a special airport. Good
people, neat airplanes....it makes ya wonder how anyone could not love this.
Thankfully we know a few people who do....
Have a good night everyone,
Ryan
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> Neato pics! Thanks for sharing.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: totally non-Pietenpol related
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Yes that Piegeon could carry severaL
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> Forget about 3G and 4G.
> Maybe what you need is 1P.
>
> check this out:
>
>
> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94606-Carrier-Pigeon-Beats-Internet-in-South-Africa
>
> Sometimes the old-fashioned things are better than the new stuff - which
> actually makes this Pietenpol related, in a roundabout sort of way.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> <http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/94606-Carrier-Pigeon-Beats-Internet-in-South-Africa>
>
>
> **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I was working in my hangar this morning early, when I heard a very unusual sound
in the sky (living here at Poplar Grove, you only come out to look if it sounds
unusual). When I looked up, I saw, at about 300 feet, the?fully restored Pitcairn
Autogyro that had just left the MAAC Brodhead fly-in. Sloooow airspeed,
rotor going so slow you could swear you could track it with your eyes.... WAP
WAP WAP like something you have never heard. What a treat!! It may be the only
time I ever see such a thing. Then the next thing you know, a Lockheed 10 doing
a high-speed passs about 6 feet above the runway!!!???? ?"Is this heaven?......................no,
it's Poplar Grove".
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 6:49 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
Jack and Mark,
You are welcome! Only a couple Piets this year. Rob Bach had his Piet, which I
believe he was delivering to the new owner, a tall, lanky older gentleman. Sad
that Rob sold it, but then if I recall Rob is building a small Piet air force
up in Burlington...more $ for new Piets. Kurt Shipman had his Piet there, as
he said he would. Looks just as nice, but now sports a snap on front cockpit cover.
I still cannot manage to meet the man at a fly-in. Two Grassroots and a
Piet fly-in I have photographed his airplane, and still cannot manage to speak
to him. :P
We talked to John for a bit around lunchtime, but unfortunately he had official
business to get back to (that happens when you are one of the muckety mucks),
so we didn't get to visit too long. Mike C, John says hi!. :P
We found Doc Mosher towards early evening at the pavilion, and spent at least 45
minutes listening to some of his always interesting stories. That was a highlight
of our time there. I did notice something; we walked past Bill Knight's
hangar, and it happened to be open. There was only one aircraft in there (I think
a Taylorcraft). The 'Last Original' was not there, and I never saw it all
day long so I don't think it was out flying. Has anybody heard anything of it
lately? Down for maintenance/restoration, or did Bill sell it? I would have talked
to Bill, but we didn't run into him.
All in all it was an absolutely beautiful day at a special airport. Good people,
neat airplanes....it makes ya wonder how anyone could not love this. Thankfully
we know a few people who do....
Have a good night everyone,
Ryan
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:26 PM, K5YAC wrote:
Neato pics! ?Thanks for sharing.
--------
Mark - working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is still
available
But my video (now actually on DVD !) is available for $25 which includes Priority
Mail Shipping the NEXT DAY after I get
your check or money order--- I trust you idfidels--- I don't even wait for the
checks to bounce......
Michael Cuy
298 Runn Street
Berea, OH
44017
2.5 housr of me building, flying, telling old wives tales, some views of old Brodhead
fly-in's my 1st flight, wings, other
Pietenpols, GN-1's (gasp) and more. It won't tell you how to glue a toothpick
to a spar but if you want I'll make a video about that.
The video is a mix of building tips, fun flying scenes, other Pietenpols and how
other people did certain things and things I learned NOT to do
or things that might save you a bit of time an money. The DVD I sell IS DATED....but
most of the info you'll need that is Corvair or Piet
specific is readily available on the web. If you're too stupid to Google that
info, don't send me any money.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> the Bell XP-77 is one of my favorites that might make a great WW II homebuilt
replica. Small, Wood, It only had a 500 HP motor and looks cool.
I thought about that project once, too, and it still appeals to me. (Not
that I'll get to fly one as an LSA!) But I understand that the prototype
went in owing to aerodynamic problems. Do you have any details?
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
Mike--- do NOT REMOVE THE plywood that the seat makes up--- this is a former in
the fuselage ! Keeps things square-- just like a rubber band model
airplane when the torque from the rubber band wants to twist the daylights out
of the fuselage---keep the plywood.
Okay-- you have all of my photos. You've seen my airplane. I have a fold-down
seat BUT I FRAMED IN THE SEAT with poplar all the way around very
heavily to keep that reinforcement going and you should too. Don't mess with
something so viably structural (tho I did !) and keep the integrity
going back to the tail.
The last thing you want is for your tail to twist off at the back side of your
butt in flight when you hit some severe CAT ! (Clear air turbulence)
Don't be so worried about saving weight like this as to jepordize your safety man
!!!!!!
Build to the plans-- modify to suit but don't be doing things so radical such as
leaving out the back seat former !
Mike C.
PS-- even with what I did I STILL came out at 632 pounds empty weight-- which is
considered pretty light for a 3-pce wing Piet. Don't skimp on your life to
save 1.2 pounds !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is still
available
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Dated it is....good old VHS quality in the era of hi-def. And the guy that
narrates it? Well...David McCullough he is not. But thankfully he built a
beautiful airplane, and he shares plenty of knowledge in his movie.
If you don't have Mike's DVD...well, as my DI's used to say: 'You are
wrong!'
Ryan
P.S.: Mike is actually one of the most quality people you could ever hope to
have in your life. Why haven't you sent him a check yet?
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 7:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
>
> But my video (now actually on DVD !) is available for $25 which includes
> Priority Mail Shipping the NEXT DAY after I get
> your check or money order--- I trust you idfidels--- I don't even wait for
> the checks to bounce......
>
> Michael Cuy
> 298 Runn Street
> Berea, OH
> 44017
>
>
> 2.5 housr of me building, flying, telling old wives tales, some views of
> old Brodhead fly-in's my 1st flight, wings, other
> Pietenpols, GN-1's (gasp) and more. It won't tell you how to glue a
> toothpick to a spar but if you want I'll make a video about that.
>
> The video is a mix of building tips, fun flying scenes, other Pietenpols
> and how other people did certain things and things I learned NOT to do
> or things that might save you a bit of time an money. The DVD I sell IS
> DATED....but most of the info you'll need that is Corvair or Piet
> specific is readily available on the web. If you're too stupid to Google
> that info, don't send me any money.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Dan does bear the unfortunate burden of living at Poplar Grove Airport. Here
is a small taste of what he saw on Sunday morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMs397HWMA
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 7:26 PM, wrote:
> I was working in my hangar this morning early, when I heard a *very*unusual sound
in the sky (living here at Poplar Grove, you only come out to
> look if it sounds unusual). When I looked up, I saw, at about 300 feet,
> the fully restored Pitcairn Autogyro that had just left the MAAC Brodhead
> fly-in. Sloooow airspeed, rotor going so slow you could swear you could
> track it with your eyes.... WAP WAP WAP like something you have never heard.
> What a treat!! It may be the only time I ever see such a thing. Then the
> next thing you know, a Lockheed 10 doing a high-speed passs about 6 feet
> above the runway!!! "Is this heaven?......................no, it's
> Poplar Grove".
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Seat back ply...structural?
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
*My vote is no don't do it, as Mr. Pietenpol would say you'll have the wings
hanging*
*down like a sow's ear!*
*The seat back adds strength with out extra weight, holds the fuse square *
*and the front seat is the attach point for the rear strut which also has a
support*
*wire running to the front strut. The front seat is attached to the ash
members*
*it seems to me to change this you would have to totally redesign. *
**
**
*Russell*
**
**
**
**
**
**
*Monocoque*, from Greek <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language> for
single (*mono*) and French for shell (*coque*), is a construction technique
that supports structural load by using an object's external skin as opposed
to using an internal frame or truss
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truss>that is then covered with a
non-load-bearing skin. Monocoque construction
was first widely used in aircraft <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft> in
the 1930s. *Structural skin* or *stressed skin* are other terms for the same
concept.
*Unibody*, or *unitary construction*, is a related construction technique
for automobiles <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile> in which the body
is integrated into a single unit with the
chassis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassis>rather than having a
separate
body-on-frame <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body-on-frame>. The welded "Unit
Body" is the predominant automobile construction technology today.
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> All right crew, here is another one for ya...seat back plywood...are
> these pieces of plywood a required structural part of the fuselage, or in
> theory, would it be OK to remove them all together? I am thinking more
> along the lines of a frame and some fabric as opposed to a solid piece of
> wood. Still in the planning stage, so I need to know if the solid plywood
> NEEDS to be there.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Seat back ply...structural?
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Unfortunately, Russ, a Pietenpol is neither monocoque or unibody.....
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Robert Ray wrote:
> *My vote is no don't do it, as Mr. Pietenpol would say you'll have the
> wings hanging*
> *down like a sow's ear!*
> *The seat back adds strength with out extra weight, holds the fuse square
> *
> *and the front seat is the attach point for the rear strut which also has
> a support*
> *wire running to the front strut. The front seat is attached to the ash
> members*
> *it seems to me to change this you would have to totally redesign. *
> **
> **
> *Russell*
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> **
> *Monocoque*, from Greek <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language> for
> single (*mono*) and French for shell (*coque*), is a construction
> technique that supports structural load by using an object's external skin
> as opposed to using an internal frame or truss<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truss>that is then covered with a non-load-bearing skin. Monocoque construction
> was first widely used in aircraft <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft>in the 1930s.
> *Structural skin* or *stressed skin* are other terms for the same concept.
>
> *Unibody*, or *unitary construction*, is a related construction technique
> for automobiles <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile> in which the
> body is integrated into a single unit with the chassis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chassis>rather than having a separate
> body-on-frame <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body-on-frame>. The welded
> "Unit Body" is the predominant automobile construction technology today.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Ryan,
Very nice pictures. The yellow Howard.... did the "N" number on it happen to end
with"VF". That is a very distinctive color scheme. I had a friend that had a
Howard, a D-17 Beech, a Stinson SR-9C and a Luscombe T-8F all painted alike.
The attached picture is old taken at my place. That little boy in the picture is
my son and he is 45. I have lost contact with the guy.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262870#262870
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vernon_d_17_163.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is still
avai
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Sep 13, 2009
You can receive a slight discount if you mention Jim Markle when you order. Or,
you can request a copy from Markle directly for the cost of postage.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262877#262877
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Jerry,
It did not end in VF, unfortunately. I zoomed in on one of my hi-res
originals, and that yellow Howard is registered to: Jerry Lugten. He is from
Michigan, and his Howard N-number is 66294.
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
>
> Ryan,
> Very nice pictures. The yellow Howard.... did the "N" number on it happen
> to end with"VF". That is a very distinctive color scheme. I had a friend
> that had a Howard, a D-17 Beech, a Stinson SR-9C and a Luscombe T-8F all
> painted alike.
> The attached picture is old taken at my place. That little boy in the
> picture is my son and he is 45. I have lost contact with the guy.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs all done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Actually, the N number of that Staggerwing is now attached to an FG1D
Corsair......a story in and of itself!
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
>
> Ryan,
> Very nice pictures. The yellow Howard.... did the "N" number on it happen
> to end with"VF". That is a very distinctive color scheme. I had a friend
> that had a Howard, a D-17 Beech, a Stinson SR-9C and a Luscombe T-8F all
> painted alike.
> The attached picture is old taken at my place. That little boy in the
> picture is my son and he is 45. I have lost contact with the guy.
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs all done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262870#262870
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/vernon_d_17_163.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Builders in New Jersey
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
I used to live just North Of Lebanon and fly out of Farmers Pride airport.
Flew a Champ 7AC out of there many times, My favorite trip was find the
river
turn north to Selins Grove, land, walk over to the dinner eat and fly home.
The Airport was in Fredericksburg, I also used to fly to a small airport in
Lancaster County the only thing I remember was the small biplane homebuilt,
aerobatic, can't remember the name of te plane but it's tiny that was
setting there on the runway.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:39 AM, wrote:
> I am in Lancaster county PA which is 2 hours and 10 from the center of NJ
> 5 miles north of LNS if you're interested
>
> John
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 13, 2009
It was in the 1970's that I was seeing the drawings with my friend. I
don't believe that anyone has suggested that Piper is trying anything
like this today. Maybe I am thinking about sa different aircraft, or
maybe he was working on the aircraft as you describe.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller<mailto:rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the
folks at Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
/www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614>
Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic
measurements:
Length: 32.25'
Wingspan: 37.04'
Height: 13.67'
And the P-48:
Length: 34.17'
Wingspan: 41.33'
Height: 13.08'
As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan
that's a hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far
being 1/2" shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a
P-51 it's an old airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little
bit shorter; maybe that's it. :P
The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a
product of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion
people. It was an evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified
P-51 that was exported to various countries for use in
counter-insurgency/CAS roles. They called it the Turbo Mustang III, with
the major mod to it being the installation of a Rolls Royce Dart
turboprop. They never got anywhere trying to sell it to the military, so
they sold the design to Piper. Piper reengined the design with a
Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48 Enforcer.
I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote
consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at
drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no
flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit
mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all
of the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have
any tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced
airframes; they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and
building all of their various models of aircraft off of the basic
Mustang airframe. It was obviously modified, extensively with some
models, but it was the starting point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper
wants to engineer tooling and equipment to start producing brand new
P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me complaining....just sounds a
little ridiculous to me. :P
Have a good morning everyone!
Ryan
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo
> wrote:
A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it
looked somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was
showing me design drawings almost from the start.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Whaley<mailto:MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
light-attack
aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being
entered for
consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2
fighter
design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
there :)
Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's
gotta be
stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's
definitely "proven
technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell"
>
To:
>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51
mustang? It
was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970.
It had a
big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air
force so it
is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens to
be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for
some
photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't
know"
information.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Interesting story, either way. It was suggested that Piper is trying
something like that today, per the article Mike W mentioned where it said
exactly that.
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> It was in the 1970's that I was seeing the drawings with my friend. I
> don't believe that anyone has suggested that Piper is trying anything like
> this today. Maybe I am thinking about sa different aircraft, or maybe he
> was working on the aircraft as you describe.
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Mueller
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:49 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
> Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the folks at
> Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect:
>
> http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
>
> Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic
> measurements:
>
> Length: 32.25'
> Wingspan: 37.04'
> Height: 13.67'
>
> And the P-48:
>
> Length: 34.17'
> Wingspan: 41.33'
> Height: 13.08'
>
> As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan that's a
> hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far being 1/2"
> shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a P-51 it's an old
> airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little bit shorter; maybe
> that's it. :P
>
> The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a product
> of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion people. It was an
> evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified P-51 that was
> exported to various countries for use in counter-insurgency/CAS roles. They
> called it the Turbo Mustang III, with the major mod to it being the
> installation of a Rolls Royce Dart turboprop. They never got anywhere trying
> to sell it to the military, so they sold the design to Piper. Piper
> reengined the design with a Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48 Enforcer.
>
> I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote
> consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at
> drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no
> flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit
> mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all of
> the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have any
> tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced airframes;
> they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and building all of their
> various models of aircraft off of the basic Mustang airframe. It was
> obviously modified, extensively with some models, but it was the starting
> point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper wants to engineer tooling and equipment
> to start producing brand new P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me
> complaining....just sounds a little ridiculous to me. :P
>
> Have a good morning everyone!
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
>> Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it looked
>> somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was showing me
>> design drawings almost from the start.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Mike Whaley
>> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>>
>> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
>>
>> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
>> light-attack
>> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated Bronco)
>> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
>> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
>> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite biased
>> there :)
>>
>> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta be
>> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
>> "proven
>> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
>>
>> Mike Whaley
>> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
>> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang? It
>> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It had
>> a
>> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force so
>> it
>> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just happens
>> to
>> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
>> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
>> information.
>>
>> *
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
And the '70s were so long ago. Understandably hard to recall many things...
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Interesting story, either way. It was suggested that Piper is trying
> something like that today, per the article Mike W mentioned where it said
> exactly that.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
YES
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
They had some EAA classes in the KC area few weeks back, but the one I really wanted,
the discover homebuilding(?) one where they do wood, fabric, composite,
and aluminum... wasn't offfered, in fact it seems to be offered once a year only
in some remote place.
Wood working class would be nice. I ended up taking the avionics/soldering class,
which was pretty pointless with my aerial project, since it has no avionics
or electric.. but it was a fun class.
Jim D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262900#262900
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
YES
From: "jimd" <jlducey(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Also, saw a posting on the biplane forum about an A/C wood working workshop.. which
already happened, however they may do them more than just once ever;
I realize this is kind of short notice but Blue Swallow Aircraft,LLC is holding
a two day "Historical Aircraft Wood Working Workshop" this coming Sat. and Sun.
Sept. 12-13 near Charlottesville, VA (CHO) Wehad a cancelation so there is
still room for someone who would be interested in learning about selecting and
working with Spruce and other aircraft grade woods. There are more details of
the class on our web site
BlueSwallowAircraft.com and you can email me for help.
Jim D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262902#262902
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: yep--it's a little bit dated--Mike Cuy's DVD is
still available
Ryan writes: Why haven't you sent him a check yet?
You are too kind Ryan but I thank you and YES...why haven't some of your in
fidels written a check yet ? :) 100% joking. I never intended to sell a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a "walk a
round" of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and sent me
a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped film. I threw in a vid
eo walk around as well and added bunches of old video and he called me and
said "man, you should sell those tapes". The rest is history.
And yes-Jim Markle sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glas
s mug or whatever turnpike money you might have in your pocket:) Also kid
ding. You actually have to buy him dinner too. You know I love you Jim.
...keep the faith. And where IS my 10% cut on those second gen DVD's ???
?
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
So, Mike C., if I hear you right, you say it would not be a good idea? Is t
hat what you are saying?-- 8^[-)
-
It was actually YOUR pictures that started the whole idea! I thought about
building a frame, (as I said in the original post), then lay in some type o
f webbing, fabric, elastic....something, (think lawn chair) for comfort.
-
It would have been a challenge to figure out how to reshape the turtle deck
/storage area above the seat back to conform with the curved webbing, etc.
Then there's the front seat...
-
Anyhoo, I get the feeling you are against it and seeing how building as dra
wn is simpler, I will continue as drawn.-
-
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Mike:
That's dramatic enough for me - thank you very much! I'm glad to hear
that it worked out so well for you. I guess that's a good reason for
doing the 40-hour flyoff in close proximity to the airfield.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
>>> Mike Tunnicliffe 9/11/2009 5:11 PM >>>
Hi Tom, the incident was not as dramatic as it could have been. The
muffler was made from thin stainless which cracked on takeoff and the
exhaust proceeded to burn the ply of the cockpit foor, adjacent to the
fuel drain. The fire burnt through a layer of paint and lightweight
fibreglass cloth then through one ply of 3mm plywood in a matter of
seconds. When throttled back the burning appeared to stop, I completed a
circut and landed. Our intended route was along a rather inhospitable
stretch of coastline and had the fire occured later the outcome would have
been very different. The epoxy in the fibreglass burnt but the epoxy
bonding the ply was still in good condition, I guess the ply limited the
heat transfered through. Changes made after this incident: muffler made of
heavier and less brittle grade of stainless, supported further away from
fuse and flexibly mounted, metal sheilds on floor. The story does not stop
there as the new muffler had a tail pipe that was horizontal with the
bottom of the fuse, and on the next flight I felt a little off colour, I
then saw the CO indicator was black. Time to get back on the deck and
modify the exhaust yet again. I now do thorough checks after making any
changes as the unexpected can and does happen. The aircraft in question
was an enclosed cockpit Jodel not a Pietenpol.
regards
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: 0235 engine report
The saga continues. the guy that's working the heads just received them so
not much to report there unless he calls me and for some reason with news
that they are beyond repair.
I got a call form the lady in Dallas who lode me my tappets were shot but
was able to get me a full set of serviceable tappet cores then has had them
machined so the cam and lifters are about ready to ship. So that's the deal
on the valve train. Now to pay for it all.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
YES
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Craig,
You say that you'd be willing to travel halfway across the country, and
pay $250 for a weekend course that will teach you how to build a wing
rib, but are hesitant to spend $100 or $180 for a set of Pietenpol
plans.
Is that because you don't know if you are capable of building a wooden
airplane, or because you don't know if the Piet is the plane for you?
If you want to try both, for a very small cash outlay, buy a copy of the
old Flying and Glider reprints from EAA - that will get you a very small
set of 1929 plans, but will still provide enough information to allow
you to build a wing rib. Then, go to the EAA website, and check out the
homebuilders videos on working with wood. They cover pretty much all you
need to know to build a rib. If you have a tablesaw, you can buy a
couple of 2x4's from Home Depot, and rip them into capstrip sizes, and
for $5 have enough wood to make a few practice ribs. The technique is
the same when it comes to the real thing - the only difference is the
quality of the wood.
The woodworking skills required to build a Pietenpol are not really that
great. The most challenging woodworking would probably be the landing
gear (for the old Jenny-style gear).
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
I have seen both aluminum and plywood used for covering of the cowlings/ins
trument bays on the top of the Pietenpol. Advantages using either one?- I
t looks like I have enough plywood on hand to use, but wonder if aluminum i
s better.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: MAAC Grassroots '09 fly-in pics
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
I dug up another old picture. It is one I made in the darkroom about 1970. This
is the SR-9C. I flew it a bunch to fly-ins for him. I remember 15 gallons/hr
and 125 MPH. Kinda like a Piet on roids!
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262929#262929
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stinson_sr_9c_549.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Yes, this Wiki article says that the second prototype spin in inverted. Pilot got
out. It also had some other problems IE Engine Vibration and performance not
up to expectations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_XP-77
With lowered performance expectations and using a lower HP engine It would be doable.
Blue Skies,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009 20:15
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
>
> Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> > the Bell XP-77 is one of my favorites that might make a great WW II homebuilt
replica. Small, Wood, It only had a 500 HP motor and looks cool.
> I thought about that project once, too, and it still appeals to me. (Not
> that I'll get to fly one as an LSA!) But I understand that the prototype
> went in owing to aerodynamic problems. Do you have any details?
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Would you attend a wood-working course at Oshkosh?
YES
From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen(at)gmail.com>
Hi Bill,
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> You say that you'd be willing to travel halfway across the country, and pay
> $250 for a weekend course that will teach you how to build a wing rib, but
> are hesitant to spend $100 or $180 for a set of Pietenpol plans.
Sorry; I re-read my message; I did say that, but that's because I was
being sloppy with my wording. I'm not concerned about the cash outlay
for the plans. I'm concerned about the time involved. I don't want
to get a year or two into building something (not to mention thousands
of dollars or more in materials) and then realize that the reason I'm
not working very fast is that I don't like working on that kind of
material.
> Is that because you don't know if you are capable of building a wooden
> airplane, or because you don't know if the Piet is the plane for you?
The second. I'm going to go to the fly-in at Lee Bottom and try to
sit in one, to at least try out the cockpit fit.
> If you want to try both, for a very small cash outlay, buy a copy of the old
> Flying and Glider reprints from EAA - that will get you a very small set of
> 1929 plans, but will still provide enough information to allow you to build
> a wing rib.
I got those plans at Oshkosh in August. Building a rib or two, or
something bigger, like a tailfin is a good idea. I would really like
to hook up with somebody locally who has built with wood to get an
idea if I'm doing it right.
> Then, go to the EAA website, and check out the homebuilders
> videos on working with wood. They cover pretty much all you need to know to
> build a rib.
I didn't know about those. Ok, I'll check that out, thanks!
> If you have a tablesaw, you can buy a couple of 2x4's from Home
> Depot, and rip them into capstrip sizes, and for $5 have enough wood to make
> a few practice ribs. The technique is the same when it comes to the real
> thing - the only difference is the quality of the wood.
Ok, that makes sense.
> The woodworking skills required to build a Pietenpol are not really that
> great. The most challenging woodworking would probably be the landing gear
> (for the old Jenny-style gear).
Although the spoked-wheel-style certainly looks cool, for a first
airplane I'm going to build whatever minimizes my time (and money)
invested to make something that flies and lands safely.
Thank for the information! I will definitely follow up on that.
Sincerely,
Craig Steffen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
As I see it, Aluminum is probably a better material if you want to be
able ro remove the decking.
If you will not want to be able to remove it, there is some weight
savings to be achieved by using plywood. 1/16" Aircraft Birch Ply has a
density of about 0.2 pounds per square foot, whereas .025" Aluminum
weighs about 0.35 pounds per square foot. There's about 10 square feet
of decking between the pilot's seat and the firewall, so that translates
to about a pound and a half of savings. But the aluminum will need to be
fastened with a bunch of screws, which also have weight - whereas the
plywood could be glued in place (also some weight for the glue, but less
than the weight of the screws).
So, by using plywood you might be able to shave a couple of pounds off
the weight of your plane, but you will not have the ability to remove
the decking.
Your call. Either one works.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Don't forget to add the weight of the varnish for the plywood, which the
aluminum won't need (although it will need primer under the paint).
I personally have not seen a Pietenpol with anything but aluminum for the
cockpit cowling. It is very nice to be able to remove it for plumbing all
the instruments.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
As I see it, Aluminum is probably a better material if you want to be able
ro remove the decking.
If you will not want to be able to remove it, there is some weight savings
to be achieved by using plywood. 1/16" Aircraft Birch Ply has a density of
about 0.2 pounds per square foot, whereas .025" Aluminum weighs about 0.35
pounds per square foot. There's about 10 square feet of decking between the
pilot's seat and the firewall, so that translates to about a pound and a
half of savings. But the aluminum will need to be fastened with a bunch of
screws, which also have weight - whereas the plywood could be glued in place
(also some weight for the glue, but less than the weight of the screws).
So, by using plywood you might be able to shave a couple of pounds off the
weight of your plane, but you will not have the ability to remove the
decking.
Your call. Either one works.
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
Whoops-- misread your question Mike P. You were talking about a framed in
seat bulkhead but with something else/ webbing/ etc. in the 'meat' portion, center
of it.
RTFQ is in order for me !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
I've been following this discussion, and would like to add my 2 cents.
I'd be unlikely to travel more than a half day drive for the sole
purpose of attending a building workshop. That's not to say that I
wouldn't want to, but I just don't think I could justify the travel
expense at this time. There really is loads I could learn, and living
here in the center of the RV world ( Dick Van G. is a member of our
chapter) there's not a lot of wood builders to learn from. IF I do make
the pilgrimage to Brodhead and Oshkosh in the future, then I'd jump on
the chance to attend a workshop.
--Ken
Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Well, let's air out an idea, then. EAA, Aircraft
> Spruce, and others hold builders' workshops a
> couple of times a year at different venues, mostly
> for things like the Zenith and RV. Let's suppose
> someone organized an Air Camper builders' workshop
> and got someone like EAA, Wicks, or Aircraft Spruce
> behind it. Would people come to such an event?
>
> The big builders' workshops have both east and west
> coast venues due to the high interest in some of
> the plane-in-a-box designs. I doubt that the Air
> Camper interest would be high enough for more than
> one such event in any given year, and it would
> probably be held in Florida or California.
>
> I'm not offering to arrange such an event; I'm just
> wondering if scratch builders are of the same mindset
> as kit builders in wanting to attend a group workshop.
> My opinion is that we are mostly individualists and
> personal craftsmen (and I use that term a bit loosely
> since I am not particularly crafty), and that a
> group setting would not really interest too many of
> the type of people who want to build Piets.
>
> Comments?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
Thank you Bill. Your post had use full numbers I was hoping someone would p
ost. I am not at the cowling point just yet, but close. I was thinking abou
t a curved plywood cowl with maybe a former under it to hold the shape, the
n have it removable by screws or hinge it. I have not looked at them very c
lose yet, so I may be off here in my thinking.
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Seat back ply...structural?
No problem Mr. Cuy. I am looking for comfort outside of adding a seat cushi
on. (That's just too easy!)- So I started thinking of a lawn chair type s
etup, in general, with multiple mesh/webbing straps or a larger one piece o
f material.- (Like a directors chair) The various marine and outdoor livi
ng type places have UV and water proof material that would work. We'll see.
I don't think it would be a good idea to have a "soft" back seat with the
plywood turtle deck riser/storage bin above that. I would think that riser
would need to be moved so my back/shoulders/neck don't rest against it and
not the soft back seat.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Like I said, if you want the decking to be removable, Aluminum is
probably the better way to go.
By the time you add formers and screws and hinges and, and, and... there
won't likely be any weight savings to be seen.
BC
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen(at)gmail.com>
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Dick N. wrote:
> I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders
> workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that,
> but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
> people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone.
Hey, that's great information. I've been looking for an excuse to go
to Sun-n-Fun anyway. Thanks!
>That
> has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
> with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it
> was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
> Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project
> to make some fast progress on let me know.
I won't at that time, but if I haven't managed to get some up-close
looks at wood-working, I'd definitely like to attend and offer my time
in exchange for being able to work on something.
So at Sun-and-Fun in Florida. Does it go all week, or are the
specific times that it's scheduled to go on?
I will keep that in mind for the spring, thanks a lot.
Craig Steffen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
You're right, Jack. I forgot to include the weight of the varnish.
Varnish is required for the plywood (inside and out), whereas the
aluminum doesn't need it (unless you're going for the Spirit of St.
Louis look). So the potential weight savings would be a bit less than
advertised.
The plans call for aluminum.
I've personally seen one Pietenpol (that I know of) with plywood cockpit
cowling. C-FAUK has plywood rather than aluminum. It's been flying for
more than 20 years. Just saw it again yesterday, as a matter of fact.
I also have attached a photo of a British Piet (G-ECVB) under
construction, which shows the plywood before covering. Note that the
plywood stops just ahead of the front cockpit, as this plane has fuel in
the nose, and used a removable aluminum cover over the fuel tank. A
doubler of plywood is used around the perimeter of the cockpit openings.
And here's a link to a photo of the finished plane:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0678122/L/
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_XP-77
Interesting! I'd missed that. Thanks.
Well, on due reflection, the Hawker Hurricane had some wood. And for the
rest of it, I enjoy welding.
Or...Mosquito, anybody?
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
I like the look of the smooth plywood as opposed to the aluminum with all t
he screws. Another alternative could be a perminate plywood cowling with a
removeable instument panel. Still planning, but thanks for the tips.
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ply -V- aluminum cowlings
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:09 PM
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You're right, Jack. I forgot to-include the weight of the varnish. Varnis
h is required for the plywood (inside and out), whereas the aluminum doesn'
t need it (unless you're going for the Spirit of St. Louis look). So the po
tential weight savings-would be-a bit less than advertised.
-
The plans call for aluminum.
-
I've personally seen one Pietenpol (that I know of) with plywood cockpit co
wling. C-FAUK has plywood rather than aluminum. It's been flying for more t
han 20 years. Just saw it again yesterday, as a matter of fact.
I also have attached a photo of a British Piet (G-ECVB) under construction,
which shows the plywood before covering. Note that the plywood stops just
ahead of the front cockpit, as this plane has fuel in the nose, and used a
removable aluminum cover over the fuel tank. A doubler of plywood is used a
round the perimeter of the cockpit openings.
And here's a link to a photo of the finished plane:
-
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/0678122/L/
-
Bill C.-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: why even build ?
Just by one and start fun-start flying ! Here's a few that are on Bar
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6Ikxhc3ROYW1lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo5OiJGaXJzdE5hbWUiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6IkNvdW50cnkiO3
M6MDoiIjtzOjU6IlN0YXRlIjtzOjA6IiI7czo0OiJDaXR5IjtzOjA6IiI7czozOiJaaXAiO3M6M
DoiIjtzOjU6IlBob25lIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJFbWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6MTI6IkNvbXBhbnlF
bWFpbCI7czowOiIiO3M6ODoiQ2F0ZWdvcnkiO3M6MToiICI7czo4OiJQcmljZU1pbiI7czowOiI
iO3M6ODoiUHJpY2VNYXgiO3M6MDoiIjtzOjc6Ik5vUHJpY2UiO3M6MToiMSI7fQ%253D%253D>
* Save to Watchlist<http://barnstormers.com/ad_manager/watchlist.php?ADD=
340152> * Report This Ad<http://barnstormers.com/report_ad.php?id=340152&
title=Pietenpol+Aircamper> * View Larger Pictures<http://barnstormers.com
/ad_detail.php?ID=340152&go_to_images=1>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
I got quite a bit of stick time in both the OV-10A and D. Granted I flew from the
back, but I got to do areobatics as part of our test matrix. I was also ejection
seat qualified, (to do maintanance) as well as taxi qualified on both models.
I would like to see the -X!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee
Hi Craig,
You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully there will
be a few of them there, weather permitting.
You mention "trying to get out".
May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently drawn to
building
a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking. There are bigger engines,
longer
wings, and wider fuselages for us "full figured girls" if you really think the
Pietenpol
is for you. (notice I'm not excluding myself.)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Definitely not a home-built
Mike's right-I do lots of Piet posting here at work but my rigs are on auto
pilot:) (well actually they are)
Usually Mike asks me about doing something on a Pietenpol that I've never h
eard of or considered so I usually am of no help
to him whatsoever except to say "that's outside of my realm of knowledge Mi
ke-yer on your own there." I'm a plain
vanilla kind of Piet builder but Mike has a very creative mind and comes up
with some very unique approaches to almost
each part of the airplane. Bernard must be spinning rapidly in his grave:
:) That's what homebuilding is all about tho-we
always learn something neat from other builders when they come up with new
ideas or looks.
An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Definitely not a home-built
Work is always getting in the way of something...
=C2-
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy
@nasa.gov>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Definitely not a home-built
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 1:12 PM
Mike=99s right=94I do lots of Piet posting here at work but my
rigs are on auto pilotJ=C2-=C2-=C2- (well actually they are)=C2-
=C2-=C2-
=C2-
Usually Mike asks me about doing something on a Pietenpol that I=99ve
never heard of or =C2-considered so I usually am of no help
to him whatsoever except to say =9Cthat=99s outside of my realm
of knowledge Mike=94yer on your own there.=9D=C2-=C2- =C2
-=C2-I=99m a plain
vanilla kind of Piet builder but Mike has a very creative mind and comes up
with some very unique approaches to almost
each part of the airplane.=C2-=C2- Bernard must be spinning rapidly in
his grave:J=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- That=99s
what homebuilding is all about tho=94we
always learn something neat from other builders when they come up with new
ideas or looks.
=C2-
An now I MUST get back to work as my boss will be checking in around 4 pm !
=C2-
Mike C.
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fly-ins
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
I tried to view the link to the Lee-bottom fly-in but it locks my computer up every
time I try. sure sounds like a great one to attend.but a long way for me
right now.I have till the 5th of October off and then have to go back to Working
in Kansas.does anyone know about a good grass roots fly-in say 500 miles from
Amarillo and happening in the next couple weeks? I'm sure ready for a fun trip
but guess I'll get back out in the garage and work on the Piet. I just finished
rigging a bellcrank linkage for my carb to the Corvair that should work
a lot better than what I had. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262976#262976
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee
From: Craig Steffen <craigsteffen(at)gmail.com>
Michael,
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully there will
> be a few of them there, weather permitting.
I'm definitely open to other designs, but given the theme I was
definitely hoping to see one there.
> May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently drawn to
building
> a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking.
Fair question. No, I'm about 6 feet tall. This spring I cracked 230
pounds, but I hope to never be that heavy again; I'm hoping I'll be
able to stay 215 and below.
I was fairly interested in HummelBirds for a while, although I am very
wary of the low gross weight capabilities. I attending their flyin-in
at Bryan Ohio at sat in Mory's original Hummel Bird prototype. Morry
Hummel, like many people (particularly pilots) born in the first half
of the 20th century, was a short thin man with very skinny legs. I
couldn't give enough clearance to move the stick and still be able to
get to the throttle. I also sat in an HB built to the "new", slighly
enlarged plans, and that was reasonable for me to sit in.
I imagine I'll be able to fit in the back cockpit. It's just a matter
that until I sit in a real one, I don't know much
shoulder/elbow/rear-end room I'll have. I'd like to have that level
of experience before I get mentally attached to the design.
Thanks,
Craig Steffen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: humped center section
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Oscar,
You mean like these?
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 060617_03
1
.JPG&PhotoID=3474
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Brussels%20
2
008_208.JPG&PhotoID=3955
<http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 060617_0
3
1.JPG&PhotoID=3474>
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 090621_21
3
.JPG&PhotoID=4092
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName 090621_20
9
.JPG&PhotoID=4093
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: humped center section
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Lee Bottom Flying Field, Hanover, Indiana
I just tried Raymond and the site came up fine. Give it another go.
This is well worth going to. http://www.leebottom.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: humped center section
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Greg Cardinal also has a slight rise to his tank, but I don't have a
picture. As I recall, he and Dale actually stretched fabric over that tank.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: humped center section
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: New Shirts and Stuff Available
Date: Sep 14, 2009
By popular demand (okay, just Jim Markle) I have added to the Half
Fast Aviation design gallery. Now you too can be like an official
"Bratman of Brodhead" and are welcome to Smell my Diary Air above the
Glorious Cheddar Curtain. A variety of products are available
including shirts, mugs and Sigg Water Bottles. Visit often and keep
those suggestions coming in!
http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need t
o talk to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my ta
nk this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol bui
lding subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to finis
h up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally all th
e pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my mind
for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank an
d found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an alum
inum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the process and
finally settled the issue.
Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but I
thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels written
a check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
=9Cwalk
around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me an
d sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sel
l
those tapes=9D. The rest is
history.
And yes=94Jim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ????
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that
aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking order
s on
wing and head fuel tanks?
Jim that's great!
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
You just HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need
to talk to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I worked on my
tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a Pietenpol
building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's really neat to
finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out but finally
all
the pieces come together. I've been working this tank thing over in my
mind
for months (years actually). My initial goal was to lighten up the tank
and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far off from what an
aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum welding in the proces
s and
finally settled the issue.
Pics of the filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but I
thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels writte
n a check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
=9Cwalk
around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me
and sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film. I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should
sell
those tapes=9D. The rest is
history.
And yes=94Jim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my 10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ????
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Jim M. welding aluminum
You're my hero Jim-- welding aluminum is a difficult thing to do well. Looks
like you've done well !
PS--did you install a threaded bushing from Wicks/ACS to accept the Tony Bingelis
advised finger strainer at your point of drainage ?
How many gallons will your tank hold ? Have you leak tested it ? I pressurized
mine w/ the blower side of my shop vac and soaped
it up--found a few leaks around the drain boss but the old hands at Valley City
Airport had some stickem mixture that I slathered on it
(some kind of two-part deal) and it hasn't leaked a drop of fuel yet.
Don't forget to use the Bee's-Wax-like substance called Fuel Lube on all of your
threads--no teflon tape in a/c fuel systems or paste. Again-- ala Tony B.
You takes yer chances.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: New Shirts and Stuff Available
You should make up a Facebook page for Halfast Aviation John and I'd be a 'fan'
immediately.
Mike C.
________________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]
On Behalf Of John Hofmann [jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Shirts and Stuff Available
By popular demand (okay, just Jim Markle) I have added to the Half Fast Aviation
design gallery. Now you too can be like an official "Bratman of Brodhead" and
are welcome to Smell my Diary Air above the Glorious Cheddar Curtain. A variety
of products are available including shirts, mugs and Sigg Water Bottles. Visit
often and keep those suggestions coming in!
http://www.cafepress.com/half_fast
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Craig
The workshop goes everyday from about 9 am and someone is there till about 4
pm or later. There are no formal classes. We work on building real, usable
parts. I don't know what our major project will be for next year, yet. I
know we will be building Piet wing ribs ( 2 per day). We will choose a
project in the late winter. It may be a Sky Scout fuselage but that is only
if nobody else comes forward with a different project. There are generally
at least 5 or more Piet builders on hand at any time.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Steffen" <craigsteffen(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet builders' workshop
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Dick N. wrote:
> I would like to weigh in on this. There has been an informal Piet builders
> workshop at Sun n Fun for many years now. We can't actually call it that,
> but anyone who has been to the Work Workshop will be surrounded by Piet
> people and most years, we are working on a Piet project for someone.
Hey, that's great information. I've been looking for an excuse to go
to Sun-n-Fun anyway. Thanks!
> That
> has been posted on this list for over 10 years that I have been involved
> with it. Last year we built wings for Skip Gadd. A couple of years ago it
> was a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and over 3 years the parts for my radial
> Piet. We are open to projects and participation. If anyone has a project
> to make some fast progress on let me know.
I won't at that time, but if I haven't managed to get some up-close
looks at wood-working, I'd definitely like to attend and offer my time
in exchange for being able to work on something.
So at Sun-and-Fun in Florida. Does it go all week, or are the
specific times that it's scheduled to go on?
I will keep that in mind for the spring, thanks a lot.
Craig Steffen
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Vertical offset
Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset vertical fin? I am
searching for a photos-in guidence to making my vertical fin offset and
the brackets!
-
Please email me directly...
-
kmheide
-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jim M. welding aluminum
>
>You're my hero Jim-- welding aluminum is a difficult thing to do well. Looks
like you've done well !
Thank you.
>
>PS--did you install a threaded bushing from Wicks/ACS to accept the Tony Bingelis
advised finger strainer at your point of drainage ?
Now THAT'S a timely question! I just went online and ordered the aluminum weld
fittings this evening! I already have the finger strainer on hand and will use
it after I get the fitting welded on.
>How many gallons will your tank hold ? Have you leak tested it ? I pressurized
mine w/ the blower side of my shop vac and soaped
>it up--found a few leaks around the drain boss but the old hands at Valley City
Airport had some stickem mixture that I slathered on it
>(some kind of two-part deal) and it hasn't leaked a drop of fuel yet.
It will hold 11 or 12 gallons. Yes, I've leak tested it. It leaked. It was amazing
how small the hole could be for it to leak! I finally figured out that
using enough filler in the weld is critical. Re-welded one "leak" 3 times without
success. Then did it one more time but this time added some more filler
rod. That did it.
>Don't forget to use the Bee's-Wax-like substance called Fuel Lube on all of your
threads--no teflon tape in a/c fuel systems or paste. Again-- ala Tony B.
I definitely won't use teflon tape but was going to use some Permatex thread sealant
stuff. Any idea of that's the same type of stuff as fuel lube?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
Thank you John.
Hey, I want to see the final product too! Actually, one thing I've learned about
welding aluminum is that it will take MANY hours (years maybe) of practice
to make a pretty AND solid TIG weld. Right now I'm happy with solid. So we'll
see.
Taking orders? Well, you never know! :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that
aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking orders on
wing and head fuel tanks?
Jim that's great!
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
You just
HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk
to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I
worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back into a
Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's
really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure out
but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank
thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was
to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't that far
off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum
welding in the process and finally settled the issue.
Pics of the
filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy
Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but
I
thank you and YESwhy havent some of your infidels written a
check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell
a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
walk
around of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me and
sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film.
I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of
old video and he called me and said man, you should sell
those
tapes. The rest is
history.
And
yesJim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass
mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my
10% cut on those second gen DVDs ????
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Piet builders' workshop Sun-N-Fun
I always stop in to the woodworking shed when I'm at Sun-N-Fun.
Although I only live a few hours away, I generally have a hard time
getting over more than one day. For 2010 I'm hoping to have my Piet
ready to take to Lakeland, and plan to take the week off. Its a great
place to hang out. Usually lots of other things to do at Sun-N-Fun too
Ben
Dick N. wrote:
>
> Craig
> The workshop goes everyday from about 9 am and someone is there till
> about 4 pm or later. There are no formal classes. We work on
> building real, usable parts. I don't know what our major project will
> be for next year, yet. I know we will be building Piet wing ribs ( 2
> per day). We will choose a project in the late winter. It may be a
> Sky Scout fuselage but that is only if nobody else comes forward with
> a different project. There are generally at least 5 or more Piet
> builders on hand at any time.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Steffen"
>
> To:
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
put me in line for first! and keep up the great work
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 9:14:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Markle
Thank you John.
Hey, I want to see the final product too! Actually, one thing I've
learned about welding aluminum is that it will take MANY hours (years may
be) of
practice to make a pretty AND solid TIG weld. Right now I'm happy with
solid. So we'll see.
Taking orders? Well, you never know! :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Sent: Sep 14, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cuy's DVD is still available
Wow Jim that's some beautiful tank metal work looks like you got that
aluminum stuff beat. I want to see the final product. BTW you taking
orders on
wing and head fuel tanks?
Jim that's great!
John
In a message dated 9/14/2009 6:43:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:
You just
HAD to drag me into this, didn't you? Actually, I probably need to talk
to Mark C!!
Ok, you woke me up...now here's my answer to all this.....I
worked on my tank this weekend (oh my gosh, did I just turn this back int
o
a
Pietenpol building subject?)! Got a lot done on my tank too. It's
really neat to finish up some things that seem to take forever to figure
out
but finally all the pieces come together. I've been working this tank
thing over in my mind for months (years actually). My initial goal was
to lighten up the tank and found out the light gauge steel tank isn't tha
t
far
off from what an aluminum will weigh. But I got to do some aluminum
welding in the process and finally settled the issue.
Pics of the
filler and support/tie down on the bottom attached.....
>From rainy
Ottawa...
jm
You are too kind Ryan but
I
thank you and YESwhy haven=99t some of your infidels writte
n a
check
yet ? J 100% joking. I never intended to sell
a
video of any kind until John Ficklin from Florida asked me to do a
=9Cwalk
around=9D of my airplane with a roll of 35 mm film he mailed to me
and
sent
me a SASE to mail him back the role of undeveloped
film.
I threw in a video walk around as well and added
bunches of
old video and he called me and said =9Cman, you should sell
those
tapes=9D. The rest is
history.
And
yes=94Jim Markle
sells bootleg copies for a 32 oz draft in a chilled glass
mug or whatever
turnpike money you might have in your pocketJ
Also kidding. You actually have to buy him dinner too.
You know I love you Jim.keep the faith. And where IS
my
10% cut on those second gen DVD=99s ????
Mike C.
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Subject: Re: Craig Steffen-- Lee Bottom Flying Field attendee
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Micheal Cuy,
I plan on going to the Lee Bottom flyin weather permitting I don't know
how much trouble it is but bring one of your CD's and I'll bring a 20 dollar
bill.
Is that correct? 20 dollars?
I'll wear my Jim Beam hat.
Russell
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Craig Steffen wrote:
> craigsteffen(at)gmail.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
> Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
>
> > You mention trying on a Pietenpol for size at Lee Bottom. Hopefully
> there will
> > be a few of them there, weather permitting.
>
> I'm definitely open to other designs, but given the theme I was
> definitely hoping to see one there.
>
> > May I ask if you're one of the 6'4 280 pounders who are so frequently
> drawn to building
> > a Pietenpol ? Nothing wrong with that-- just asking.
>
> Fair question. No, I'm about 6 feet tall. This spring I cracked 230
> pounds, but I hope to never be that heavy again; I'm hoping I'll be
> able to stay 215 and below.
>
> I was fairly interested in HummelBirds for a while, although I am very
> wary of the low gross weight capabilities. I attending their flyin-in
> at Bryan Ohio at sat in Mory's original Hummel Bird prototype. Morry
> Hummel, like many people (particularly pilots) born in the first half
> of the 20th century, was a short thin man with very skinny legs. I
> couldn't give enough clearance to move the stick and still be able to
> get to the throttle. I also sat in an HB built to the "new", slighly
> enlarged plans, and that was reasonable for me to sit in.
>
> I imagine I'll be able to fit in the back cockpit. It's just a matter
> that until I sit in a real one, I don't know much
> shoulder/elbow/rear-end room I'll have. I'd like to have that level
> of experience before I get mentally attached to the design.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Craig Steffen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Jim M. welding aluminum
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Cool stuff Jim! I need to make some progress like that.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263078#263078
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Ryan and Jess Mueller, famous radio subjects and Piet
builders
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hey Ryan,
I called my parents tonight on my way to the EAA meeting, and my dad mentioned
that he was listening to WGN radio (Chicago) the other night and they were talking
about a husband and wife team that was building a Pietenpol in their one-room
apartment in the city. I told my dad there could only be one of those in
this world, and that I knew those people. I guess it was also mentioned that they
(you) were at Brodhead over the weekend. What's the story on this???
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Jim Markle alum welding
Date: Sep 14, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Jim,
Beautiful welds!! Lets see some pics of the whole tank!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Off topic, but interesting
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Here is the source for the Piper Enforcer and "photo" of the OV-10X:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/09/photo-boeing-pitches-o
v-10x-br.html
I've posted more info about the Boeing's OV-10X project over the past months
here:
http://www.ov-10bronco.net/
-M
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:33 PM
Subject: [piet] Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> Interesting story, either way. It was suggested that Piper is trying
> something like that today, per the article Mike W mentioned where it said
> exactly that.
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
>
> > It was in the 1970's that I was seeing the drawings with my friend. I
> > don't believe that anyone has suggested that Piper is trying anything
like
> > this today. Maybe I am thinking about sa different aircraft, or maybe
he
> > was working on the aircraft as you describe.
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Ryan Mueller
> > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> > *Sent:* Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:49 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >
> > Your friend must be thinking of some other aircraft. That, or the folks
at
> > Dayton (and many other sources) are incorrect:
> >
> > http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=614
> >
> > Insofar as it being smaller, not so much. Here's a P-51Ds basic
> > measurements:
> >
> > Length: 32.25'
> > Wingspan: 37.04'
> > Height: 13.67'
> >
> > And the P-48:
> >
> > Length: 34.17'
> > Wingspan: 41.33'
> > Height: 13.08'
> >
> > As you can see, the P-48 is not quite 2" longer and has a wingspan
that's a
> > hair over 4' longer (per the tip tanks, I would think). As far being
1/2"
> > shorter, I can't account for that. Since it is based on a P-51 it's an
old
> > airframe...as we age we're supposed to become a little bit shorter;
maybe
> > that's it. :P
> >
> > The Enforcer itself was not a clean sheet design by Piper. It was a
product
> > of the people at Cavalier Aircraft, the Mustang conversion people. It
was an
> > evolution of their Mustang II, an extensively modified P-51 that was
> > exported to various countries for use in counter-insurgency/CAS roles.
They
> > called it the Turbo Mustang III, with the major mod to it being the
> > installation of a Rolls Royce Dart turboprop. They never got anywhere
trying
> > to sell it to the military, so they sold the design to Piper. Piper
> > reengined the design with a Lycoming T-55 and named it the P-48
Enforcer.
> >
> > I would be very surprised if the P-48 were to receive even remote
> > consideration in the USAF competition. Maybe they are only looking at
> > drawings and specs at this point, and not actual aircraft; there are no
> > flying P-48s. How Piper would produce one in this economy is a bit
> > mind-boggling. They may have production equipment and drawings for all
of
> > the conversion parts that Cavalier designed, but they shouldn't have any
> > tooling to produce a basic airframe with. Cavalier never produced
airframes;
> > they were scarfing up surplus Mustangs in the 60s, and building all of
their
> > various models of aircraft off of the basic Mustang airframe. It was
> > obviously modified, extensively with some models, but it was the
starting
> > point. Don't get me wrong, if Piper wants to engineer tooling and
equipment
> > to start producing brand new P-51 Mustang airframes you won't find me
> > complaining....just sounds a little ridiculous to me. :P
> >
> > Have a good morning everyone!
> >
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 6:40 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> >
> >> A friend of mine was one of, if not the chief designer of the Piper
> >> Enforcer, and as I recall it was not based on a Mustang, although it
looked
> >> somewhat like one. I believe it was quite a bit smaller. He was
showing me
> >> design drawings almost from the start.
> >>
> >> Gene
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Mike Whaley
> >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 12, 2009 11:40 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >>
> >> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
> >>
> >> In an article published yesterday (9/11/09) about the new USAF
> >> light-attack
> >> aircraft competition (primarily concerning Boeing's OV-10X updated
Bronco)
> >> it was mentioned that the PA-48 Enforcer was actually being entered for
> >> consideration! Hard to imagine the Air Force going for a WW2 fighter
> >> design... my money's on the OV-10X, although I'm admittedly quite
biased
> >> there :)
> >>
> >> Maybe we could come up with a Combat Pietenpol for this... it's gotta
be
> >> stealthy already, being made of wood and all... and it's definitely
> >> "proven
> >> technology". Might need a few more hardpoints, though...
> >>
> >> Mike Whaley
> >> MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "shad bell" <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:27 AM
> >> Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Off topic, but interesting
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Guys, did you know Piper built a modified version of the P-51 mustang?
It
> >> was designed for a counter insurgency program called COIN in 1970. It
had
> >> a
> >> big turboprop longer wings etc etc. Never was bought by the air force
so
> >> it
> >> is still designated the PA 48 Enforcer. 4 were built and one just
happens
> >> to
> >> be at Wright Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton. Google it for some
> >> photos, and more info, a really neat piece of "I bet ya didn't know"
> >> information.
> >>
> >> *
> >
> > title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
> > *
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Vertical offset
Date: Sep 14, 2009
Nice and Simple
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1055.JPG
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1054.JPG
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Greg%20and%20Dale/DSCF0082.JPG
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical offset
Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset
vertical fin? I am searching for a photos in guidence to making my
vertical fin offset and the brackets!
Please email me directly...
kmheide
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol
Date: Sep 14, 2009
I know I'm not the only Aero-News reader in this group... this was in
today's edition. Maybe it'll take a little of the edge off the lack of
coverage in Sport Aviation
--------------------
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=233c2b29-1701-4753-992c-d0
b98e5b9af9&
or
http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?videoid=4aebea3e-23f6-4d84-9075-d9210c1ee3f
e
Aero-TV: Profiles in Aviation - Rob Bach and His Pietenpol
Mon, 14 Sep '09
Vintage Aircraft Enthusiast Rob Bach Introduces the Pietenpol Air Camper
Following World War I, civil aviation experienced an extraordinary surge in
public curiosity that ignited pilots, mechanics and enthusiasts alike.
Hundreds rushed to participate in this "Golden Age of Aviation," leading to
a tremendous increase in technological advancements. One such participant
was Bernard H. Pietenpol, a self-taught airplane designer from Spring Valley
Cherry Grove, Minnesota.
Considered the "Father of Homebuilt Aircraft," Pietenpol constructed his
first homebuilt airplane in 1923, using a Ford Model T engine. He did not,
however, gain world-wide recognition until April of 1930; Pietenpol set out
for Minneapolis with two Ford Model A powered airplanes in order to prove to
the editor of Modern Mechanics, now Popular Mechanics, that an auto engine
powered aircraft could indeed fly.
The editor was so impressed by the aircraft that the Pietenpol Air Camper
was featured as the magazine's cover story. With the increased exposure,
the airplane became the favorite homebuilt of its day.
Pietenpol intentionally designed the aircraft with the "average 1930's
American" in mind; all materials used were readily available in local stores
and the aircraft could be easily built with a minimum amount of tools.
The aircraft was constructed from spruce and plywood, powered by a converted
Ford Model A 4 cylinder engine. Due to the downward thrust of the
propeller, the aircraft had a short take off run, allowing the "Golden Age"
pilots to fly it from most off-airport fields.
FMI: http://www.pietenpols.org/, http://www.aero-tv.net,
http://www.youtube.com/aerotvnetwork, http://twitter.com/AeroNews
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: humped center section
Date: Sep 14, 2009
I've now got four layers of fibreglass on the
plug bottom half ( vinyl ester resin ) and am
hoping to do the top this weekend if the weather
holds.
This tank should hold 22 gallons. All except a
few ounces useable up to 15=B0 nose down
and any angle nose up, except maybe in a
hammerhead. :-)
I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
and left side exhaust manifold.
Sometime I'll get around to making another
couple of pages on my website. Right now
too much to do working on plane and getting
some flutes done. I don't make flutes then I
don't get to sell them, do I?
Clif
"It is not death that a man should fear,
but he should fear never beginning to live."
~ Marcus Aurelius
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
09/14/09 17:52:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Subject: aluminum fuel tank costs
QSBjdXN0b20gYnVpbHQgYWx1bWludW0gZnVlbCB0YW5rIGNhbiBjb3N0IHVwd2FyZHMgb2YgJDYw
MCBKaW0gTWFya2xlIHNvIGRvbid0DQpiZSBzaHkgYWJvdXQgYXNraW5nIHN1Y2ggZm9yIG9uZS0t
LWVzcGVjaWFsbHkgaWYgaXQgaXMgYSBzcGVjaWFsIHNoYXBlIGxpa2UgdGhlIG9uZQ0KSSBhc2tl
ZCBmb3ItLS0tLWNhcmRib2FyZCBtb2NrdXAgdG8gd2VsZGVyLiANCg0KTWlrZSBDLiANCg0KDQoo
SSBzdXBwbGllZCBmaWxsZXIgbmVjayBib3NzIGZpdHRpbmcgYW5kIGRyYWluIGJvc3MgZml0dGlu
Zy9mbGFuZ2UgZnJvbSBXaWNrcywgdGhlIHdlbGRlciBkaWQgdGhlIHJlc3QpIA0KDQoNCg0KDQoN
Cg=
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Jim Markle alum welding
Thank you Dan,
I'll get some pics of the whole thing shortly. But I'm telling you right now there
won't be any close ups! Well, maybe a couple. Some of those areas I had
to reweld because of leaks...well, they aren't pretty! :-)
The thing I do love about welding though is how easy it is to see where I started
and where I ended with the last weld. Amazing how the weld quality changes
from one end of the part to that last bead for a beginner like me!
But it's all good..
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sep 14, 2009 10:40 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle alum welding
Jim,
Beautiful welds!! Lets see some pics of the whole tank!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: aluminum fuel tank costs
Thanks Mike!
Well, this won't happen overnight but it's nice to know if it's even worth the
effort or not. Could very well be.....
This welding stuff has been one of the most enjoyable parts of the process!
Next on my list....a Simitar Prop. I'm having a bit of a struggle NOT starting
that phase immediately. But I have a prop for my Model A so a hand made prop
needs to wait....but oh how I want to get started on that!!!
Hopefully the weld fittings will be there when I get home this weekend....so I
can put the finishing touches on this thing!
jm
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Sep 15, 2009 7:29 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum fuel tank costs
>
>A custom built aluminum fuel tank can cost upwards of $600 Jim Markle so don't
>be shy about asking such for one---especially if it is a special shape like the
one
>I asked for-----cardboard mockup to welder.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
>(I supplied filler neck boss fitting and drain boss fitting/flange from Wicks,
the welder did the rest)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Carden <flywrite(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Mechanical Heel Brakes
Date: Sep 15, 2009
I've been trying, without success, to locate photographs, drawing,
sketches, detailed descriptions, etc., of how to configure/rig/
install mechanical heel brakes. i'd appreciate some resource leads.
Many thanks, Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: humped center section
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Cliff,
I like the idea of no cable linkage!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down=85)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif
Dawson
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
I've now got four layers of fibreglass on the
plug bottom half ( vinyl ester resin ) and am
hoping to do the top this weekend if the weather
holds.
This tank should hold 22 gallons. All except a
few ounces useable up to 15=B0 nose down
and any angle nose up, except maybe in a
hammerhead. :-)
I've also attached a pic of my throttle linkage
and left side exhaust manifold.
Sometime I'll get around to making another
couple of pages on my website. Right now
too much to do working on plane and getting
some flutes done. I don't make flutes then I
don't get to sell them, do I?
Clif
"It is not death that a man should fear,
but he should fear never beginning to live."
~ Marcus Aurelius
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church <mailto:eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: humped center section
Or maybe it was Clif Dawson's:
http://clifdawson.ca/Pietenpol_Page_6.html
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
- Release Date: 09/14/09 17:52:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mechanical Heel Brakes
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
This is about as simple as it gets.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/Rudder_pedals.JPG
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263126#263126
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Hales Landing Picnic
Date: Sep 15, 2009
All Ohio valley Piet builders and flyers,
This Saturday Sept 19 is the Hales Landing fall picnic/flyin. We have 6
Piets on the filed, 3 should be on the line, one flying and 2 in the taxi
test stage. There is also 3 more Piet projects on the field.
Any Piets that fly in, lunch is on me.
We are 3000' grass about 12 miles south of Parkersburg WV. identifier 2wv3.
Write me off line for more information.
Skip
skipgadd(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Mechanical Heel Brakes
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Richard,
Here's a couple pictures of how I did mine...not flight tested. Contact me
off list if you want more detail...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Carden
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mechanical Heel Brakes
I've been trying, without success, to locate photographs, drawing,
sketches, detailed descriptions, etc., of how to configure/rig/
install mechanical heel brakes. i'd appreciate some resource leads.
Many thanks, Dick Carden
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Interesting picture
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of
Piets there, and one of them had an interesting encounter on the way to
the event. Apparently, at about 2400 ft altitude, a bird hit the plane
(from the front). It struck one of the cabanes, and left a calling card
behind. Must have been a real fright for the front passenger!
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Lower engine mount brackets
I see on the plans that the- lower engine brackets at the firewall have t
wo ears that bend around to the front over the firewall. What purpose do th
ese serve? Is it a means to help prevent the fitting from rocking?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: New Shirts and Stuff Available
Date: Sep 15, 2009
I absolutely, positively had to have one of the "Smell My
Dairy Air" sigg bottles! That has to be the niftiest item
so far. My wife willl choke me, of course, because she has
been saying that people who spend $20-$30 for a Sigg aluminum
bottle are not very smart when you can get an inexpensive
knock-off at Target for under $10 but we all know about the
Sigg quality and who can argue with the beautiful artwork
on the "Dairy Air" item?
Sweet! Mine is on its way to Texas...! And Jim, if you're
reading this, I didn't get the picture of your fuel tank
welding and it didn't seem to be on the forum site either.
Can you please email me the attachment directly?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Subject: Re: Ryan and Jess Mueller, famous radio subjects and
Piet builders
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Haha! Yep, that was Jess. We were driving back to Elgin on Saturday night
after leaving Brodhead, listening to 'GN. One of the weekenders was on, and
the discussion turned to something about men and women, dating, etc. Not the
most interesting topic, but there wasn't much else on. A number of cranks
called in saying how the women they date never pay for anything, or
something like that. Jess took offense at this, as she always offered to pay
half when we were dating; so she decided to call in. I had to turn the radio
off in the car since she was on the air, so I only heard her half of the
conversation. I don't know what prompted it, but she mentioned we were
building a Pietenpol in the city and that we were driving back from the
fly-in up at Brodhead. 38 states, Canada, and the internets got to hear it.
So that's the story on that. :P
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 9:38 PM, wrote:
> Hey Ryan,
>
> I called my parents tonight on my way to the EAA meeting, and my dad
> mentioned that he was listening to WGN radio (Chicago) the other night and
> they were talking about a husband and wife team that was building a
> Pietenpol in their one-room apartment in the city. I told my dad there could
> only be one of those in this world, and that I knew those people. I guess it
> was also mentioned that they (you) were at Brodhead over the weekend. What's
> the story on this???
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Interesting picture
Date: Sep 15, 2009
".Must have been a real fright for the front passenger!" To say nothing of
what the bird thought of it!
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting picture
I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of Piets
there, and one of them had an interesting encounter on the way to the event.
Apparently, at about 2400 ft altitude, a bird hit the plane (from the
front). It struck one of the cabanes, and left a calling card behind. Must
have been a real fright for the front passenger!
Bill C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Interesting picture
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
And imagine if you were standing on the ground near where the rest of
the bird went. That would be a bit of a surprise, too. (but not as bad
as the bird's)
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Interesting picture
"...Must have been a real fright for the front passenger!" To say
nothing of what the bird thought of it!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Corvair flyers experience needed.
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano(at)att.net>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
my Corvair engine as I received it from DJ has a 1/4" pipe thread opening in the
side of the filler neck for crankcase ventilation- are any of you flying with
that small of a vent and do you think it is enough? I 'm trying to get a cowling
mocked up and trying to get an idea if anything needs to change up there.
also been wondering if you run a coil switcher like this one has. if you have
had any problems switching the coils over-never used one and wondering if momentarily
having both on might cause some type of damage -can't see how it would
but switching one off before turning the other on might cause a backfire.? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263151#263151
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Subject: Re: Interesting picture
Did the bird the the Piet from the front or rear?
:-}
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:47
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Interesting picture
> I was at an aviation event on the weekend, and there were a couple of
> Piets there, and one of them had an interesting encounter on the
> way to
> the event. Apparently, at about 2400 ft altitude, a bird hit the plane
> (from the front). It struck one of the cabanes, and left a calling
> cardbehind. Must have been a real fright for the front passenger!
>
> Bill C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Subject: EZ Turn Fuel Lube available from Wicks and Chief Aircraft
This is the stuff I used on ALL fuel line threaded fittings---nary a leak e
ver. The old guys
at the airport told me to use this and nothing else and they were right.
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=11812/in
dex.html
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Chemical/FuelLubricant.html
And for those who don't know what a finger strainer is (see Bingelis books-
fuel systems) they look like this-they keep the golf balls and beer cans fr
om your fuel tank from going into your fuel delivery hose/tubing. (then
there is the gascolator screen.....then there is another screen in your ca
rb-hopefully)
You take yer chances.
Mike C.
[X]
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Corvair flyers experience needed.
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
1/4" is enough for return line from your air/oil separator and in the right location
Ventilation line should be around 5/8"
BR
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: skellytown flyer <rhano(at)att.net>
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:58 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair flyers experience needed.
my Corvair engine as I received it from DJ has a 1/4" pipe thread opening in the
side of the filler neck for crankcase ventilation- are any of you flying with
that small of a vent and do you think it is enough? I 'm trying to get a cowling
mocked up and trying to get an idea if anything needs to change up there. also
been wondering if you run a coil switcher like this one has. if you have had any
problems switching the coils over-never used one and wondering if momentarily
having both on might cause some type of damage -can't see how it would but
switching one off before turning the other on might cause a backfire.? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263151#263151
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EAA magazine - Sky Scout (OCR-ed)
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Hi,
I've OCR-ed this text today, and it occurred to me that it would be nice to contribute
it on this mailing list as my first message. Share and enjoy.
Regards,
Ivan Todorovic
=== [begin]
EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) Sport Aviation magazine, issues: FEBRUARY
- MARCH - APRIL 1958.
FAMOUS HOMEBUILTS OF THE PAST
The Pietenpol "Sky Scout"
By George Hardie, Jr.
[image: Here's the "Ski Scout" taxiing out for a flight.]
Part 1 of 3 Parts
[image: Doug Rolfe's drawing gives an idea of the "Sky Scout's" proportions. The
photo at left indicates that the radiator interfered with forward visibility
to some extent.]
Everyone attending the 1957 EAA Fly-In had an opportunity to look over three fine
examples of the famous Pietenpol "Air Camper" design, and to observe the flying
characteristics of this rugged pioneer among homebuilts. One If the ships,
owned and flown by Allen Rudolf of Juneau, Wis., was built in 1934 and is powered
by the original Model A Ford engine. It has given Allen many hours of trouble-free,
economic performance. The other two ships were powered with more modern
engines, one with a Lycoming and the other with a Franklin. Details on the
"Air Camper." design were presented in the second of this "Famous Homebuilt"
series which appeared in the May, 1956 issue of the EXPERIMENTER.
Not generally known is the fact that the designer of the "Mr Camper", B. H. Pietenpol
of Spring Valley. Minn., also designed a single-seater expressly to be
powered with a modified Model T Ford engine. This was the "Sky Scout", details
of which appeared in the 1933 Flying Manual from which we reproduce some of the
drawings with the generous permission of Mechanix Illustrated magazine. Those
not familiar with the famous Flying Manuals will understand their popularity,
even today, by noting the clarity, simplicity, and completeness of these drawings.
Certainly they set a standard which we should attempt to follow today.
Our purpose in presenting this series on these old aircraft is to acquaint our
readers with the construction details and the simple, practical approach made
by the pioneer designers. The basic problem of yesterday's homebuilder (and today's
as well) was to get Port 1 of 3 Ports into the air as cheaply as possible
and safely, Construction materials and techniques used in these aircraft have
been greatly advanced. but there is much to he learned from a study of their
design and construction. At least we must give these pioneers much credit for
accomplishing what they did with what they had. We can and should be able to
do better with today's materials and techniques.
The "Sky Scout", like Wilbur Smith's "Termite" featured in the January issue of
SPORT AVIATION, was of all-wood construction, and was very similar in design
to the earlier "Air Camper" as indicated in the silhouette comparison. n was designed
around the plentiful Model T Ford engine (converted for aircraft use)
but with a few minor changes in the design, the Model A engine could also be used.
Pietenpol claimed the "Sky Scout" to be the easiest ship to build and fly
as was possible to make it. The accompanying outline drawings would seem to bear
him out.
Construction was started with the fuselage. Quoting from Pietenpol's article in
the 1933 Flying Manual:
"The construction of the fuselage is very plainly drawn up and I don't think you
will have any trouble with it. It is made from 7/8 in. x 7/8 in. spruce, for
longerons and struts, while the sides and front are covered with 3/32 in. mahogany
plywood. The floor is made of 1/4 in. five-ply Haskelite. All gusset plates
of 1/8 in. material. Remember, all plywood must be regular aircraft grade
and waterproof."
"Use a good glue. We use Rodgers semi-waterproof and give it two good coats of
varnish. You may use regular casein glue, but be sure you know how to handle it.
It won't keep long (12 hours)."
"You will need a large bench on which to draw out and build your fuselage jig.
We use the same jig for both sides."
"Each strut is held in place by blocks which are left nailed down until both sides
are finished. Also leave the longerons a little long. and wrap some wire from
the top to the bottom longerons, twisting it tight with a nail until you have
the plywood nailed and glued on each side. When the glue is dry, you may saw
off the longerons in front."
"First lay out one side in the jig, putting in all struts and braces. When you
make one strut. make another just like it to be used on the other side so the
two will be exactly alike. Be sure to use a miter box for this work."
"Next glue and nail on all the 1/8 in. gusset plates, wire the front longerons
together so they will not spring apart and break the gusset plates."
"Now remove the side from the jig, pat the longerons, struts and braces for the
other side into the jig, and put in the gusset plates, starting from the tail
and working up to where the 3/32 in. sides start."
"Now take the side you have just finished from the jig. lay it on a piece of 3/32
in. plywood, and mark out all longerons, struts and braces by running a pencil
around them, then cut the plywood the size of the fuselage. Make two of these
- one for the right and one for the left side."
"The side of the plywood bearing the pencil marks goes on the outside, and gives
you good marks to keep your nails between."
"Now put a good layer of glue on the longerons, struts and braces as far back as
the plywood goes: lay on your plywood and get busy nailing it down with 3/4
in. x 18 gauge cement coated nails. All other gusset plates are also put on with
this size nail."
"When you have this done, wire he front of the longerons together and remove from
the jig. Now remove all the blocks from the bench so that it is smooth. Turn
the side of the fuselage over and put the gusset plates on that side; then do
the same with the first side you started."
"Now take the two sides and clamp them together. Saw off the ends of the longerons
exactly the same length. Take a tri-square and mark off all strut stations,
the place for the instrument board, and a few marks that will come in handy
to measure from."
"Now make the seat back and the front bulkhead. (These must be perfect, as the
whole job depends on them). Nail and glue them in place. You may now put in the
1/4 in. x five-plywood floor, nailing it in with 1 in. 17 gauge nails. Next
comes the top of the fuselage."
"Now pull the tail end of the longerons together, make this joint fit good, glue
and nail it good. and put in all the rest of the struts and braces. using the
center line method to get it straight. That is, make a line in the center of
each strut and make a tight string or wire pass over this line when drawn from
the center of front to center of the tail post."
"The struts are next set on the gusset plates of the sides. Then put on the turtle
back, instrument hoard, cowling, and support and the woodwork is finished
except for the seat, which you should have no trouble with."
Drawings of the control system are self-explanatory. While primitive by today's
standards, they served the purpose. Many construction techniques used would not
be acceptable today. However, the "Sky Scout" remains a practical design, basically
simple and straight forward. Next month's Part 2 in the series will give
details on the wings and tail surfaces.
FAMOUS HOMEBUILTS OF THE PAST
The Pietenpol "Sky Scout"
By George Hardie, Jr.
Part 2 of 3 Parts
Part 1 of this series on the Model T-powered Pietenpol "Sky Scout" dealt with the
construction of the fuselage and presented detailed drawings on it and the
controls system and cockpit. This month we will continue with details on the construction
of the wing and empennage.
The wing used on the "Sky Scout" was practically the same as that of the "Air Camper"
except that it was 11 in. shorter in span. Rib construction and airfoil
were exactly the same on both ships. An interesting account on how Pietenpol
evolved his airfoil section after much experimentation was included in the article
on the "Air Camper" that appeared in the May, 1956 issue of the EXPERIMENTER.
Similarity of other design features is evident upon a close comparison of
the two ships.
Quoting again from Pietenpol article in the 1933 Flying Manual. on the wing construction
of the "Sky Scout" (reprinted through the kind permission of Mechanix
Illustrated magazine):
"The wing on the 'Sky Scout' is much too strong and could be lightened a little.
It weighs about 90 lbs. complete, It was only built this heavy because all the
regular parts to build the 'Air Camper' wing were used."
"I wish to call your attention to the brace right back of the rear beam This was
changed from the plans of the 'Air Camper', and I advise all of you who have
not built up your wings to build them this way."
"After your ribs are finished. make your beams and splice them in the center. Now
mark off all places where the ribs will come. having the two beams clamped
together. A good way to do this is to mark off the places on half of the spars,
then reverse one beam and mark the other half from the first marks. You will
then know that it is right."
"Next glue in the piece of 3/32 in. or in plywood that is set beneath the gas tank,
and be sure you have this in the center and perfectly square, as the whole
wing is lined up from this center. Now put on all the ribs and glue and nail
them with two 1 in. by 17 gauge nails at each joint. On the top it will be found
necessary to put in small spruce blocks to fill up the gap. These must be
glued on both sides."
"The fittings are so clear on the plans that it would be a waste of time to say
anything about them. They are all made of regular 1025 aircraft steel and are
more than strong enough."
"Next put on all wing fittings and brace wires (we use 3/32 in. cable as it is
easier to handle, although No. 12 hard wire is OK), and line the wing up with
the wires. Do not make them too tight until you get in your compression struts
and wing tips."
"Now put on the leading edge. trailing edge, aileron beams, flop beams. and wing
tips in the order named. Line up the wing so that it is perfectly straight and
put in all the braces. Put in the 1/4 in. x 1/4 in. braces on the ailerons
and put all filler strips on the aileron hinges (which are only small strap hinges
with a new pin put in which has a cotter pin hole in its end)."
"Now place the control horns. and you are ready to cut the ailerons and center
flop from the wing. By leaving all the ribs full length and cutting the ailerons
and flop free, when finished you are sure to get a better and straighter wing.
After you have all the parts finished and sanded. you may give the whole thing
a coat of varnish."
"Put in the gas tank (5 1/2 gallon) and the wing is ready to cover You may use
any light grade of aircraft cloth for this or you may use sheeting. Tack a piece
60 in wide the full length of the wing all around the edge, bottom side first.
Give the edge a coat of dope, turn the wing aver and do the same on top."
"Now sew the cloth to the ribs in the regular manner, put on a coat of dope, then
all the tape and patches around the fittings and give the wing four extra coats
of dope (five in all). The last two coats may be colored. I advise a light
coat of paint on the wing if you wish the cloth to last a long time, although
this makes the ship harder to patch."
"Just a little warning, be sure and put the flop in the center. A lot of those
building the 'Air Camper' did not do this but put a large opening instead and
spoiled the climb of the ship. Remember that you cannot have all the features
of a high powered plane in a small Ford-powered ship and expect it to fly well,
and the flop is one of the things that makes these ships a success. The first
thing to remember in building a low-powered ship is to keep the weight down
and the efficiency up."
The sage advice expressed in that last sentence holds as true today as the day
it was written. While some of the techniques recommended in the above quotation
would be questioned by today's standards, still one must admire the practical
approach made to the problem of designing a simply constructed, economical aircraft.
Again I wish to emphasize that these drawings and details on these old
aircraft are presented for study and evaluation, rather than as a recommended
project for the homebuilder. Materials used would be in some cases unacceptable
today, but the fact that even with these handicaps these old aircraft proved
successful speaks well for the courage of these pioneer home-builders. Today
we can draw upon their experiences as a valuable guide and with the vastly superior
advantage of being able to choose our materials from a wide selection
of proven types and grades. we should be able to produce superior designs.
The tail surfaces of the "Sky Scout" follow the same general lines as those of
the "Air Camper". Wood construction was used, with covering of fabric. The drawings
clearly show all details and are self-explanatory.
Next month's concluding article will present details on the landing gear tail skid.
motor mount. and struts and fittings.
[image: Here's the "flop" mentioned by Pietenpol which increased the lift of the
wing.]
FAMOUS HOMEBUILTS OF THE PAST
[image: The "Sky Scout" gets off the ground quickly, and has a landing run of only
250 ft. Close-up below shows the Ford Model T engine installation on the Pietenpol
"Sky Scout".]
The Pietenpol "Sky Scout"
By George Hardie, Jr.
Part 3 of 3 Parts
Homebuilders of 25 years ago were as anxious to get into the air as any today.
B. H. Pietenpol of Spring Valley, Minn., provided one practical answer to this
demand with his two-seater "Air Camper". designed to he powered with a converted
Ford Model A engine, When he was flooded with requests for a design to take
the plentiful tat that time) Ford Model T engine, he came up with the "Sky Scout",
a single-seater whose construction was practically the same as the "Air
Camper".
In two previous installments we have presented detailed drawings and data on the
"Sky Scout". giving details and construction notes on the fuselage, wing and
tail surfaces. In this final installment we present details on the landing gear,
tail skid, motor mount. wing struts and fittings. This material is taken from
the 1933 Flying Manual and is reprinted with the generous permission of Mechanix
Illustrated magazine.
The landing gear on the "Sky Scout" followed the popular style of the day, using
a Vee hinged to the lower longeron of the fuselage and a shock strut running
up to a fitting on the upper longeron. Pietenpol had this to say about it in
the Flying Manual article:
"This has proven to be a very strong outfit which will stand plenty of abuse. While
it would be difficult to explain how this is built, the plans are very clear
and you should have no trouble."
"You will have to use a turning lathe and be a good welder to make the gear shown
here. You may also build the type of landing gear that is used on the 'Air
Camper'. You will find that this is much easier to make and is quite strong enough."
"While we are on the subject of the 'Air Camper' gear, we had better put on some
safety device to keep the ship from dropping to the ground if the shock cord
breaks, since it seems that everybody has trouble wrapping shock cord."
"Here is the method we use! First cut a piece of leather to fit around the bottom
of the landing gear vee and lace it on with lace leather. Now take 6 ft. of
1/2 in. shock cord and have someone hold it about half way up on the outside
of the front landing gear strut. Take the other end and pass it under the landing
gear vee. over the axle. under the vee on the inside of the first wrap, over
the axle on the outside of the first wrap and under the vee on the inside of
the last wrap until you have three wraps pulled quite tight."
"The cord should he just long enough to make a good square knot and to permit taping
of the ends. This method makes each wrap about the same 'length and you
will not have any trouble with your shock cord cutting. The landing gear should
give not over one inch with a full load in the ship, but neither should it be
any tighter."
"The tail skid comes next. This is of extremely simple construction. but it has
proved so efficient that we are now using it on all of the planes we build. Be
sure to put a small keel on the shoe or you will find your ship hard to steer
on a windy day. This keel will also help to prevent the beginner from ground
looping."
There aren't many airports left where tail skids are welcomed, so I suppose we
may regard this item as a mark of the past. But let's continue with the construction
notes:
"After you have your ship complete, that is, the motor in, tail group on, all controls
in. and are ready for the wing, make up your center struts like the drawings,
all brace wires made, then get about four extra helpers, put the wing
on the center struts and line up."
"Next have someone hold up the ends of the wing so that it will have a little dihedral,
and measure the length of the front flying struts, These should both
he exactly the same length. When these are in place, do the same with the rear
flying struts. Now make the flying or brace wires. Hook up the ailerons, safety
all turnbuckles and your ship should be ready to go."
Simple enough for the ambitious mechanic. The completed airplane certainly would
take no beauty prize, but the designer's practical approach to the problem of
providing an economical machine of simple construction was evident in every
line. Pietenpol had this to say about his "Sky Scout":
"I believe this to be the safest light plane there is, and if this design is a
start in that direction, it has all been well worth the time we have put into
it. But those of you who wish only to build so that they will have something to
fly had better build it exactly as the plans, and you will be sure of having
a ship that is very easy to handle. It is cheap to run and will land and take
off at a field where the average OX-5 job, or similar powered ship, would be
completely out of luck."
[image: Here's the way Model T was mounted on the "Sky Scout".]
The hey-day of the "Sky Scout" has long since passed, but once again small all-wood
aircraft are being built and flown. Wilbur Smith's "Termite", described in
the January issue of SPORT AVIATION, is a fine example of what can be accomplished
today. The Druine Turbulent and Turbi, the Jodel "Bebe" and "Club" and
many others indicate what can be done with wood construction. Several others,
notably a single-place folding wing craft that we will present soon, show that
designers are still seeking the simple. practical aircraft for just plain flying.
There is no way of knowing how many "Sky Scouts" were built, but there is no denying
the fact that the design work of F. H. Pietenpol, as exemplified by his
"Air Camper" and "Sky Scout" homebuilts. has left his mark on today's design thinking,
Certainly the simplicity of construction and the practical approach to
the design problems are goals that all homebuilts will always be seeking.
SPECIFICATIONS OF THE PIETENPOL "SKY SCOUT"
Top Speed..........62 mph
Cruising Speed.....55 mph
Lending Speed......35 mph
Take-off Run.......150 ft.
Landing Run........250 ft.
Initial Climb.....200 fpm
Span..........27 ft. 3 in.
Chord................5 ft.
Length........16 ft. 3 in.
=== [end]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263172#263172
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: No RPM drop on mag check??
Hi all,
I finally found a really great guy to go toolin' around with to burn off
the 10 hours the insurance company is requiring. We spent a fantastic
1.2 hours in N8031 last night. Temps were perfect, wind was calm, and I
even nearly greased my first landing in a Piet! What a great night.
Anyway, when I was doing the run-up I observed no RPM drop when checking
the mags. Whoa! Something's a-miss. "Off" works as advertised, so I
don't think the mags are hot.
Googling suggests the following:
1. Open p-leads causing hot mags.
2. Mag timing advanced beyond the specified setting
3. Defective ignition switch
4. Open in the grounding circuit of the feed through the capacitors
(Bendix S-1200 series mags)
5. Open magneto capacitors.
I've got Eisemann mags, so I don't know if the Bendix specific warnings
are applicable.
Since it's affecting both mags, I'm leaning toward defective ignition
switch.
Anyone else have any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Interesting picture
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Wish that picture had not been published..here comes PETA..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Interesting picture
And imagine if you were standing on the ground near where the rest of the
bird went. That would be a bit of a surprise, too. (but not as bad as the
bird's)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Interesting picture
".Must have been a real fright for the front passenger!" To say nothing of
what the bird thought of it!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: No RPM drop on mag check??
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Dan;
I'm going with defective ignition switch, or probably
more likely, improperly wired. Shouldn't be very
difficult to troubleshoot, but shut off the fuel and
ground the P-leads before you mess with it. You'll
need to pull the cowling enough to get to the mag
P-leads or at least be able to get a continuity
meter onto the leads. You'll also need someone to
move the switch while you check each one.
Obviously the "off" and "both" positions work right
so something else is funny in there.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
=0A=0AI just had dinner with Jim Markle here in Ottawa Canada tonight and
he is a wonderful person.He is a real asset to this web page and a true gen
tleman in=0A>every sence of the word.It was a real pleasure to spend a coup
le of hours=0A>with him.I hope next time we have more time to go to the air
strip to see my=0A>aircraft.Have a safe flight back Jim and I look forward
to our next get together. -=0A> -=0A>http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List=0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>http://www.matronics.com
/contribution=0A> -=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>href
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>href="htt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A>=0A=0A=0A
================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
Harvey, thanks for the kind words! Our visit was MY pleasure!
I get tired of the travel part of my job so getting to make a new Piet friend is
always a treat.
And this evening was no exception.
Now get those mags out of the shop so you can get back in the air! Hopefully you'll
be able to get in some flying before the weather arrives....
Thank you,
jm
From: H RULE
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
I just had dinner with Jim Markle here in Ottawa Canada tonight and he is a wonderful
person.He is a real asset to this web page and a true gentleman inevery
sence of the word.It was a real pleasure to spend a couple of hourswith him.I
hope next time we have more time to go to the airstrip to see myaircraft.Have
a safe flight back Jim and I look forward to our next get together.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: humped center section
Date: Sep 15, 2009
Thanks Gary. I tried cable. it was a heavy duty
marine one but no matter which position I
mounted the carb I just couldn't get it to work
smoothly. The linkage is free moving and
affords infinite adjustment.
Clif
Cliff,
I like the idea of no cable linkage!
Gary Boothe
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2009
From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical offset
hello there in these moment I build the tail section complete allmos done a
ll parts these weekkend meen sunday i finish the find section and the fotos
i have in these moment course i senyou and hope work well for youseyou nex
- jorge from hanford
--- On Mon, 9/14/09, KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP wrote:
From: KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vertical offset
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 5:49 PM
Can any members of the list send me photos of the offset vertical fin? I am
searching for a photos-in guidence to making my vertical fin offset and
the brackets!=0A-=0APlease email me directly...=0A-=0Akmheide
=0A=0A=0A-=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: Re: Mechanical Heel Brakes
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Sure is about as simple as it gets and I'm sure it works to!
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote:
>
> This is about as simple as it gets.
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/Rudder_pedals.JPG
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs all done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263126#263126
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
Jim was that your first visit to Ottawa?I was laying in bed last night and
-I got to thinking-of your reaction over the Chateau last night.If it w
as your first visit then I offer my sincere apologies.I should have taken y
ou on a tour of this beautiful town.You didn't see the best parts.I'm very
sorry,I should have asked you before we went to dinner.If you are ever by t
his way again then I will take you for a tour before dinner!-=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspri
ng.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, September 15, 2
009 10:21:31 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle=0A=0A-
=0A=0AHarvey, thanks for the kind words!- Our visit was MY pleasure!=0AI
get tired of the travel part of my job so getting to make a new Piet friend
is always a treat.=0AAnd this evening was no exception.=0ANow get those ma
gs out of the shop so you can get back in the air!- Hopefully you'll be a
ble to get in some flying before the weather arrives....=0AThank you,=0Ajm
=0A=0AFrom: H RULE =0ASent: Sep 15, 2009 9:15 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matro
nics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle=0A=0AI just h
ad dinner with Jim Markle here in- Ottawa Canada tonight and he is a wond
erful person.He is a real asset to this web page and a true gentleman ineve
ry sence of the word.It was a real pleasure to spend a couple of hourswith
him.I hope next time we have more time to go to the airstrip to see myaircr
aft.Have a safe flight back Jim and I look forward to our next get together
====================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Mechanical Heel Brakes
Having broken off my share of ATV hand brake handles when I was kid, I
would definitely consider not using these for heel brakes. It
shouldn't be too hard to construct something a bit more sturdy. I like
the rest of it, though.
Dan
Robert Ray wrote:
> Sure is about as simple as it gets and I'm sure it works to!
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Jerry Dotson > wrote:
>
> >
>
> This is about as simple as it gets.
> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/G-BUCO%20Pictures/Rudder_pedals.JPG
>
> --------
> Jerry Dotson
> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd
> Baker, FL 32531
>
> Started building NX510JD July, 2009
> Ribs all done
> using Lycoming O-235
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263126#263126
> s List Un/Subscription,
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> ====
>
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet video on Youtube
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
This will definitely make your whole day.? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ8RS3FuVoA
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Piet video on Youtube
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Thanks, Dan! Now I can go to work..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet video on Youtube
This will definitely make your whole day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ8RS3FuVoA
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: meeting people from the list-- Brodhead, elsewhere
You know at first I would go to Brodhead just to measure other Pietenpols,
take photos, document
things I wanted to incorporate into my airplane but now it is really fun ju
st getting to meet face to
face with the folks on the list like Jim Markle did over dinner with Harvey
Rule yesterday. Great stuff.
You really don't know a person fully just from the list-it really completes
the picture when you get
to meet them in person.
Some of my best friends I've met thru the list then in bumming around with
them at Brodhead. Sometimes
we don't even look at the airplanes but solve world issues and do manly thi
ngs like have gas and burp and partake.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Piet video on Youtube
Date: Sep 16, 2009
"Built from 1936 plans", bah-! Did they think we just
wouldn't notice that the airplane has a tailwheel instead
of a skid, or what? That's not built to BHP's plans!
;o)
cool video, VERY original and clean airplane!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: bird strike
I wonder how it made it thru the prop arc before hitting the upper part of
the cabane ?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: redneck carnival ride you tube
Maybe we could set up a contraption like this next year at brodhead. Gardiner.
Yeah I know it is not a pietenpol, but it does show how much power a rubber band
can put out
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:44:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bird strike
I wonder how it made it thru the prop arc before hitting the
upper part of the cabane ?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Piet video on Youtube
It sure did;thankyou very much for that and I loved the music too!=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspe
rsew(at)aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Septemb
er 16, 2009 8:52:16 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Piet video on Youtube=0A
=0A=0AThis will definitely make your whole day.- http://www.youtube.com/w
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 16, 2009
How did some of you attach the trailing edge? one of the methods on the pl
ans or another way? I want to start building ribs and this would influence
the rib design.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet video on Youtube
Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 08:52:16 -0400
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
This will definitely make your whole day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
=ZZ8RS3FuVoA
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&cre
a=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
When Jim was in Cleveburg a few months ago we rode around to all the little
airports around here and by
the time we were done (we intended to go out for dinner as well) it was so
late that Jim had to get back to
his hotel in time to get some sleep so he could teach his class/seminar the
next morning-but we had fun, just
hungry late.
We ended up talking Ford 8N tractors with one local airport owner, Herb Rah
aus. You never know what kind of
fun you're going to have bumming around with airplane and tractor people.
(or probably for that matter old
car people and such too)
Mike C.
(doesn't that sound like a new TV program "Dinner with Jim Markle", or a
movie ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Being Jim Markle comes to mind=3B-)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 13:12:45 -0500
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
When Jim was in Cleveburg a few months ago we rode around to all the little
airports around here and by
the time we were done (we intended to go out for dinner as well) it was so
late that Jim had to get back to
his hotel in time to get some sleep so he could teach his class/seminar the
next morning=97but we had fun=2C just
hungry late.
We ended up talking Ford 8N tractors with one local airport owner=2C Herb R
ahaus. You never know what kind of
fun you=92re going to have bumming around with airplane and tractor people.
(or probably for that matter old
car people and such too)
Mike C.
(doesn=92t that sound like a new TV program =93Dinner with Jim Markle=94
=2C or a movie ?
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: Piet video on Youtube
Wow-she's not only a good taildragger pilot but composer and singer as well
. Alex must be one proud Dad.
I know another guy on the list who has a flying daughter......who's also a
redhead. She prefers her Daddy's J-3 Cub though
but also likes Jack Phillip's plane as well.
[cid:image003.jpg(at)01CA36DA.4EA29A10]
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
I like that best"=C2-Dinner with Jim Markle" .I think that would make an
excellent TV show with Jim starring in the lead role though.It wouldn't wor
k with anybody else there.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.
d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" =0ASent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:12:45 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pi
etenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle=0A=0A=0AWhen Jim was in Cleveburg a few
months ago we rode around to all the little airports around here and by=0A
the time we were done (we intended to go out for dinner as well) it was so
late that Jim had to get back to=0Ahis hotel in time to get some sleep so h
e could teach his class/seminar the next morning=94but we had fun, ju
st=0Ahungry late.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =0A=C2-=0AWe ended up talking F
ord 8N tractors with one local airport owner, Herb Rahaus.=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2- You never know what kind of =0Afun you=99re going to have b
umming around with airplane and tractor people.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- (or
probably for that matter old=0Acar people and such too)=0A=C2-=0AMike C.
=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A(doesn=99t that sound like a new TV program=C2
-=C2- =9CDinner with Jim Markle=9D, or a movie ? =0A=0A=0A_
-========================
================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: tenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
Come on guys, let's keep this aviation related!
How about: "The Great Waldo Pepper"?????
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Dever
Sent: Sep 16, 2009 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
Being Jim Markle comes to mind;-)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:12:45 -0500
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List:Dinner with Jim Markle
When Jim was in Cleveburg a few months ago we rode around to all the little airports
around here and by
the time we were done (we intended to go out for dinner as well) it was so late
that Jim had to get back to
his hotel in time to get some sleep so he could teach his class/seminar the next
morningbut we had fun, just
hungry late.
We ended up talking Ford 8N tractors with one local airport owner, Herb Rahaus.
You never know what kind of
fun youre going to have bumming around with airplane and tractor people. (or
probably for that matter old
car people and such too)
Mike C.
(doesnt that sound like a new TV program Dinner with Jim Markle, or a movie ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: bird strike
Date: Sep 16, 2009
I once had a bird hit me in a flexwing. Put a hole in the fabric and
left feathers on the carbs then went into the prop ( a pusher) I saw it
flying up toward me from a thermal created by an asphalt plant right
below crosswind in the pattern at BCV. Scared the peewaden out of me
because it made a loud pop when it hit the wing.
Birds are a danger we need to heed.
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: bird strike
I wonder how it made it thru the prop arc before hitting the upper part
of the cabane ?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: Trailing Edge
This is how I did mine Doug.
Mike C.
Worked well-no complaints.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Subject: Airplane movie related
Literally--- here is a great video clip comparing Airplane and the 1950's
movie Zero Hour where
Airplane is almost a scene-for-scene remake of Zero Hour. I was amazed.
Mike C.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q__vuyH1JEI
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Trailing Edge
I ran the semi-triangular TE piece throught the table saw a couple times to make
a tongue (as in: Tongue and Groove).
Then used a biscuit joiner (could have used the table saw) to cut grooves in the
ribs at the TE.
Epoxied the TE tongue into the slots in the ribs. Then ran a router with a flush
trim bit across the tongue areas between each rib to remove the unused wood.
Worked well and was simple and strong.
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Thanks Mike=2C
I figured yours would be pretty much to plans. The only thing that made me
question it was pictures of some of the ribs people have been makin'. I'm
kind of an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" kind of guy. Mine will be to
plans...Including the Model A. Don't hate me because of I'm a Model A. LOL
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Date: Wed=2C 16 Sep 2009 14:17:28 -0500
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge
This is how I did mine Doug.
Mike C.
Worked well=97no complaints.
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Just to throw another thought out there, I am about to attach my
trailing edge like Mike did (except that I made mine out of ripped up
pieces of Stearman spars) but I think I am going to use popsicle sticks
instead of plywood to attach it (the wide ones, from a craft store).
They are a bit thinner than most of the ply I have on hand and they are
good and strong and very easy to work with, almost no cutting -- just
cut them in half and bevel the edges. Besides, most old wings I have
taken apart have had the plywood delaminating long before the solid wood
has deteriorated.
anyone else done this??
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge
This is how I did mine Doug.
Mike C.
Worked well-no complaints.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Great thread... I have been contemplating this very subject myself for several
days. Thanks for the illustrations Mike, and the photos Jim.
I like the idea of the wide popsicle sticks... I have a box of 500 of those that
I bought for mixing glue. Way more than I need, plus I like the smaller ones
for most stuff.
I also like the tongue in grove method, which is what I originally planned to do,
and still might. My biggest problem at the moment is that I left my ribs (top
and bottom caps) too long at the trailing edge. I built them according to
the rib drawing, but I didn't realize that I was supposed to trim the excess
until I started looking at other parts of the plan, and now those suspicions are
confirmed in Jim's photos.
Looks like I get to slide the ribs back off the spars for a trim (bummer). I wonder
if I could just shoot a laser down the length and trim them with an exacto
saw?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263448#263448
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Just so long as you don't get into a funk because you're not a model B.
Clif
Thanks Mike,
Don't hate me because of I'm a Model A. LOL
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 16, 2009
Good idea. BUT. Those things are cut anywhichway so I would test each
one
for short runout by breaking the "other half".
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge
I think I am going to use popsicle sticks instead of plywood to attach
it (the wide ones, from a craft store). anyone else done this??
Gene
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Mark,
Try a string, the laser can be pretty blurry. Get used to taking the ribs
off; it's a hazard of building from plans. You will want them off to cut
the groove.
Jack
www.textors.com
Great thread... I have been contemplating this very subject myself for
several days. Thanks for the illustrations Mike, and the photos Jim.
I like the idea of the wide popsicle sticks... I have a box of 500 of those
that I bought for mixing glue. Way more than I need, plus I like the
smaller ones for most stuff.
I also like the tongue in grove method, which is what I originally planned
to do, and still might. My biggest problem at the moment is that I left my
ribs (top and bottom caps) too long at the trailing edge. I built them
according to the rib drawing, but I didn't realize that I was supposed to
trim the excess until I started looking at other parts of the plan, and now
those suspicions are confirmed in Jim's photos.
Looks like I get to slide the ribs back off the spars for a trim (bummer).
I wonder if I could just shoot a laser down the length and trim them with an
exacto saw?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263448#263448
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:49:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Trailing Edge
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Gene,
Not flying but that's what I did. I also made a jig to hold the rib on the
table saw. Starting with the blade below the table I cranked it up 5 turns
for each rib. For extra bracing I glued a 1/8" triangle piece of birch ply
in the TE groove on both side of the rib. Try wire or aviation snips to cut
the sticks These pics may help.
Jack
www.textors.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge
Just to throw another thought out there, I am about to attach my trailing
edge like Mike did (except that I made mine out of ripped up pieces of
Stearman spars) but I think I am going to use popsicle sticks instead of
plywood to attach it (the wide ones, from a craft store). They are a bit
thinner than most of the ply I have on hand and they are good and strong and
very easy to work with, almost no cutting -- just cut them in half and bevel
the edges. Besides, most old wings I have taken apart have had the plywood
delaminating long before the solid wood has deteriorated.
anyone else done this??
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Trailing Edge
This is how I did mine Doug.
Mike C.
Worked well-no complaints.
17:49:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Lower engine mount brackets
Date: Sep 17, 2009
I believe that these tabs are to give more bearing surface for the
fitting when on the ground. When you look at it, at rest all of the
engine weight is pushing the lower fitting aft. These ears take some of
the load off of the attach bolts.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez<mailto:speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower engine mount brackets
I see on the plans that the lower engine brackets at the
firewall have two ears that bend around to the front over the firewall.
What purpose do these serve? Is it a means to help prevent the fitting
from rocking?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Piet video on Youtube
WOW! That was cool.
If this video is any indication, there's a LOT more to the Whitmore story!!!
Very interesting.
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sep 16, 2009 7:52 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet video on Youtube
This will definitely make your whole day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ8RS3FuVoA
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Subject: Marquart Charger
Date: Sep 17, 2009
From Pat Panzera's Experimenter Online mag. Thanks Pat. You are doing
a great job.
http://www.eaa.org/video/eaa.html?videoId=40274896001
The link is to the video of Mark Gilmore's, Gold Lindy, Marquart
Charger. I have known Mark since 1990 and shared a hangar with him in
Anderson, Indiana for about five years. Those of us who have been
around this project for the past 20 years new (if it ever got done) it
would be something special. It is. Some may have seen it at Brodhead
for the Piet flyin. He staged there. Mark was back for Grassroots last
weekend and hopped a few rides. When I talked with him back in July he
was telling me how he flew circles, working his way to the edge of his
flight test box and when his time hit 25 hours he headed up towards
Brodhead.
Also, here is a link to a bad iPhone video I took last weekend at
Brodhead of the Autogyro and my Beech 18 ride with Steve Thomas. 110
GPH on takeoff!
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100012
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Subject: preferences
I love all Pietenpols, no matter what engine or wheels they have. I simp
ly have my favorites for some of the features
over other ones. To each his own in the Pietenpol world I say. Remem
ber what Larry Williams said-Pietenpols are
like snowflakes-no two are alike ! (well actually Doc Mosher said that..
..much to the high BP levels of one nice Piet guy,
Larry Williams)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Subject: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Gene-I like that idea very much. I too simply sanded the edges/beveled th
em at each end and by the time the covering
and edge tapes go on with paint and all they really don't look bad at all.
I think you'll be pleased with the appearance of
the approach you're using. (and integrity of the bond using that material.
)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Corvair- specific link for Piets
Date: Sep 17, 2009
William Wynne is reworking his FlyCorvair.com website to
concentrate information for specific airframes such as
KR, Zenith, and Piet. It's a work in progress but here's
the beginning of the Piet-specific page for Corvairs:
http://www.flycorvair.com/piet.html
As many of you know, William is an Air Camper at heart,
having cut his initial teeth on flying Corvair conversions
on his own Piet. As a result, his conversion work always
keeps our application in mind, not just the "all electric,
all metal" jobs.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: No RPM drop on mag check??
Might sound stupid, but check the resistance from the switch to the engine
case (ground)- Corrosion or bad wiring might be giving you the problems A
megometer would be good for checking the p-leads for shorts, the high volt
age of the megger will jump a pretty good gap.- One other hillbilly suges
tion, is to run it at night after dark (BE CAREFUL!!) and see if there is a
light show under the cowling from a bad harness, faulty wire insulation et
c. causing a "leak".- Also one- w.a.g. is that your switch might have b
ad isulation, causing a voltage drop/weak spark due to it partially shortin
g out. I also had one hell of an experiance years ago with an old tractor (
IH Cub)with a batt ignition, where the condenser (capasitor) went bad and c
aused a weak spark, to where the tractor would not start, replaced it still
would not start.- Hours, and a few days of scratching my head, I had put
the condenser in backwords (on the ground side, instead of the hot
side)-.- I still got spark, but a very weak spark.- After I put it o
n right it fired right up, and I picked up the beer bottles and mowed the y
ard.- Just a few things to check, I'll let you know if I think of any mor
e.
-
Building on the Jungster, Flying the Piet,
Shad
--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Dan Yocum wrote:
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: No RPM drop on mag check??
Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 4:26 PM
Hi all,
I finally found a really great guy to go toolin' around with to burn off th
e 10 hours the insurance company is requiring.- We spent a fantastic 1.2
hours in N8031 last night.- Temps were perfect, wind was calm, and I even
nearly greased my first landing in a Piet!- What a great night.
Anyway, when I was doing the run-up I observed no RPM drop when checking th
e mags.- Whoa!- Something's a-miss.- "Off" works as advertised, so I
don't think the mags are hot.
Googling suggests the following:
1. Open p-leads causing hot mags.
2. Mag timing advanced beyond the specified setting
3. Defective ignition switch
4. Open in the grounding circuit of the feed through the capacitors (Bendix
S-1200 series mags)
5. Open magneto capacitors.
I've got Eisemann mags, so I don't know if the Bendix specific warnings are
applicable.
Since it's affecting both mags, I'm leaning toward defective ignition switc
h.
Anyone else have any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Dan
-- Dan Yocum
Fermilab- 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab.- Just zeros and ones.
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Date: Sep 17, 2009
I went today to the craft store thinking I could buy a batch of the
wider (3/4"?) popsicle sticks. All they had was the 3/8" ones, which I
already have. Maybe the wider ones are medical?? Anyway, I will check
a couple of other places before I start hanging around the doctor's
office. (my next door neighbor is a doctor, so could probably get from
her anyway)
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Gene-I like that idea very much. I too simply sanded the
edges/beveled them at each end and by the time the covering
and edge tapes go on with paint and all they really don't look bad at
all. I think you'll be pleased with the appearance of
the approach you're using. (and integrity of the bond using that
material.)
Mike C.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2009
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Lower engine mount brackets
Thank you Gene. I forget to also picture the plane on the ground for some o
f it's design. You're explanation makes perfect sense.
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Gene Rambo wrote:
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lower engine mount brackets
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 10:12 AM
I believe that these tabs are to give more bearing surface for the fitting
when on the ground.- When you look at it, at rest all of the engine weigh
t is pushing the lower fitting aft.- These ears take some of the load off
of the attach bolts.
-
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lower engine mount brackets
I see on the plans that the- lower engine brackets at the firewall have t
wo ears that bend around to the front over the firewall. What purpose do th
ese serve? Is it a means to help prevent the fitting from rocking?
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Subject: old aviation footage
>Mikeee- did you notice near the end, when the guy is
>thinking back to his experience flying single-engine
>fighters, one of them is just like your "flying bicycle"?
Ah yes-- that was great footage. Here's my recreation of that flying bike
with the Roman Candle pack of motors on the tail for propulsion.
My wife and I rode this around the airport ramp when I finished it but the
weight of the wings makes turns really difficult so you keep your turns ver
y
wide, very shallow. No, we never did liftoff. I was over gross mostly
likely
and we never lit the fake rocket motors that I made with Quarter Paper mone
y rolls
and yellow string to look like wicks to light.
Fun project.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: old aviation footage
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Mike,
Speaking of candle power, can your Cont. boast of this?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: old aviation footage
>Mikeee- did you notice near the end, when the guy is
>thinking back to his experience flying single-engine
>fighters, one of them is just like your "flying bicycle"?
Ah yes-- that was great footage. Here's my recreation of that flying bike
with the Roman Candle pack of motors on the tail for propulsion.
My wife and I rode this around the airport ramp when I finished it but the
weight of the wings makes turns really difficult so you keep your turns very
wide, very shallow. No, we never did liftoff. I was over gross mostly
likely
and we never lit the fake rocket motors that I made with Quarter Paper money
rolls
and yellow string to look like wicks to light.
Fun project.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Marquart Charger
Date: Sep 17, 2009
John,
Great thanks for sharing! You have to show me how to share vids from
iPhone.
Jack
Www.textors.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 17, 2009, at 11:18, John Hofmann
wrote:
> From Pat Panzera's Experimenter Online mag. Thanks Pat. You are
> doing a great job.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/video/eaa.html?videoId=40274896001
>
> The link is to the video of Mark Gilmore's, Gold Lindy, Marquart
> Charger. I have known Mark since 1990 and shared a hangar with him
> in Anderson, Indiana for about five years. Those of us who have been
> around this project for the past 20 years new (if it ever got done)
> it would be something special. It is. Some may have seen it at
> Brodhead for the Piet flyin. He staged there. Mark was back for
> Grassroots last weekend and hopped a few rides. When I talked with
> him back in July he was telling me how he flew circles, working his
> way to the edge of his flight test box and when his time hit 25
> hours he headed up towards Brodhead.
>
> Also, here is a link to a bad iPhone video I took last weekend at
> Brodhead of the Autogyro and my Beech 18 ride with Steve Thomas. 110
> GPH on takeoff!
>
> http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100012
>
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President, Information Technology
> The Rees Group, Inc.
> 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
> Madison, WI 53718
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Date: Sep 17, 2009
Gene,
The wider ones are medical - known as "tongue depressors". Check
under 'medical supplies' in your phone listings if your neighbor
can't supply you.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 17, 2009, at 3:52 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> I went today to the craft store thinking I could buy a batch of the
> wider (3/4"?) popsicle sticks. All they had was the 3/8" ones,
> which I already have. Maybe the wider ones are medical?? Anyway,
> I will check a couple of other places before I start hanging around
> the doctor's office. (my next door neighbor is a doctor, so could
> probably get from her anyway)
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:49 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
>
> Gene-I like that idea very much. I too simply sanded the edges/
> beveled them at each end and by the time the covering
> and edge tapes go on with paint and all they really don't look bad
> at all. I think you'll be pleased with the appearance of
> the approach you're using. (and integrity of the bond using that
> material.)
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Sep 17, 2009
I got mine at Aircraft Spruce (please don't boo me)... 3/4" x 6", box of 500, $10.75.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/mixingsticks.php
These may actually be cheaper than anything that might be packaged for "medical"
use. You certainly don't want to pay for sterile type depressors, just the
unsealed, loosely packaged craft type should do.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263614#263614
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EZ Turn Fuel Lube available from Wicks and Chief Aircraft
What about the beer you spill into the tank when you set your beer on top o
f the wing, and knock it over with the fuel can?=C2- I guess you could ju
st suck the beer out of the gascolator, and spit when it starts to taste li
ke gasoline.=C2- If it is the hard stuff just run it through the engine f
or a nitros like acceleration, they might already do that down in the hills
.
Shad
=C2-
=C2-
And for those who don=99t know what a finger strainer is (see Bingeli
s books=94fuel systems) they look like this=94they keep the gol
f balls and beer cans from your fuel tank from going into your fuel deliver
y hose/tubing.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- (then there is the gascolator screen
..then there is another screen in your carb=94hopefully)
=C2-
You take yer chances.
=C2-
Mike C.
=C2-
=C2-
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2009
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: old aviation footage
Just remember the rudder will be a "little" touchier, but not a lot, so don
't panic and over control the dam thing.
-
Village idiot
-
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
wrote:
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy
@nasa.gov>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: old aviation footage
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 3:56 PM
>Mikeee- did you notice near the end, when the guy is
>thinking back to his experience flying single-engine
>fighters, one of them is just like your "flying bicycle"?
Ah yes-- that was great footage.---Here's my recreation of that flyin
g bike
with the Roman Candle pack of motors on the tail for propulsion.
My wife and I rode this around the airport ramp when I finished it but the
weight of the wings makes turns really difficult so you keep your turns ver
y
wide, very shallow.- - No, we never did liftoff.---I was over gro
ss mostly likely
and we never lit the fake rocket motors that I made with Quarter Paper mone
y rolls
and yellow string to look like wicks to light.
Fun project.
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2009
From: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP" <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Try Harbor Freight... bought many boxes for mixing glues.
-
--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Gene Rambo wrote:
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 2:52 PM
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I went today to the craft store thinking I could buy a batch of the wider (
3/4"?) popsicle sticks.- All they had was the 3/8" ones, which I already
have.- Maybe the wider ones are medical??- Anyway, I will check a coupl
e of other places before I start hanging around the doctor's office.- (my
next door neighbor is a doctor, so could probably get from her anyway)
-
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
Gene-I like that idea very much.-- I too simply sanded the edges/bevele
d them at each end and by the time the covering
and edge tapes go on- with paint and all they really don't look bad at al
l.---- I think you'll be pleased with the appearance of
the approach you're using. -(and integrity of the bond using that materia
l.)-
-
Mike- C.
-
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://ww
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: starter for no-electrics engines
Date: Sep 18, 2009
This may already have come up in discussion here so if it
has, I apologize in advance but I'm
always behind on my reading so I'm just now getting around
to reading my Sport Aviation with the Tailwind on the cover.
Probably from March or April. Anyway, there is a short
article on a really nifty starter that uses a cordless
drill driving a ring gear that bolts to the prop hub
before the prop goes on. It's for older Continentals like
the A65s that so many of us have (as well as other engines
and airplanes with no electrics or provision for starters).
A T-handle pull cable
from the cockpit engages the drive gear from the drill at
the same time that the trigger is pulled, and a Bendix
arrangement keeps the drive from breaking if the engine
kicks back.
Has anyone seen one of these or actually tried one? They
are STC'ing the setup and it is supposed to sell for something
like $1500 plus another $800 for installation (or some
amount like that). I thought it was very clever.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2009
I got my sticks and mix cups at quiznos. They were free for the asking!
John
------Original Message------
From: Mark Chunard
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Sep 17, 2009 9:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
I got mine at Aircraft Spruce (please don't boo me)... 3/4" x 6", box of 500, $10.75.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/mixingsticks.php
These may actually be cheaper than anything that might be packaged for "medical"
use. You certainly don't want to pay for sterile type depressors, just the
unsealed, loosely packaged craft type should do.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263614#263614
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Subject: Re: popsicle/craft sticks to glue TE on
From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond(at)gmail.com>
I they sell these things in bulk at artsy-craftsy stores like Michael's and
Hobby Lobby. Anyone remeber the lamps and other crap people used to make
with 'em in the 70s?
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 8:19 PM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> I got mine at Aircraft Spruce (please don't boo me)... 3/4" x 6", box of
> 500, $10.75.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/mixingsticks.php
>
> These may actually be cheaper than anything that might be packaged for
> "medical" use. You certainly don't want to pay for sterile type depressors,
> just the unsealed, loosely packaged craft type should do.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=263614#263614
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Marquart Charger
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Talking about the fuel flow in the Beech 18 reminds me of the time when I
was a young line boy at the airport, back in the 60's. A DC-3 came in for
fuel, and as I was up on the wing refueling it, the pilot asked me to check
the oil in the right engine. I found the door on the nacelle and unscrewed
the dipstick. There was a mark labelled "24" and one at 22, and the oil
level was right in between them. I yelled down to the pilot "You've got 23
quarts."
He said "Quarts? You mean gallons. Goa ahead and put another gallon in
it." Thus it is in the world of radial engines.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Yes, that is Jeff Moore from Anderson, Indiana. He flew his Hatz up to
Brodhead with his daughter (she was in the seat next to me). He has a black
and yellow Hatz that is always at the flyin before Oshkosh. Next to Jeff was
Diane Gilmore, wife of Mark (Charger builder). I think we were both in shock
at the fuel flow. Fritz Badertscher was in the right seat. Fritz is a diary
farmer a couple of miles away and was one of the Brodhead Airport founders.
His hangar was the first one on the airport (legend says). Everyone who has
been to Brodhead knows of his plane. Fritz has the red Cub that lives in the
open tee hangar next to the pavilion. I like Fritz. He is properly sized,
like me. In fact he makes me look tall. Steve Thomas was in the left seat.
He and his wife Tina own the Poplar Grove operation.
Do not arcive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 18, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
That video is awesome. I gotta ask though, is that someone you know sitting
in the rear seat on the Beech ride? If so, next time you talk to them
please ask how the heck someone takes THAT ride WITHOUT a huge smile on
their face????
That was neat, thanks for sharing.
thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hofmann
Sent: Sep 17, 2009 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Hey Jack,
I ran the bits through iMovie and uploaded it to my mobile me account. It
was easy. Contact me offline if you want more detail.
do not ======================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> &n
- &nbs -->
http://www.matronics.com/co================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael McGowan" <shadetree(at)socket.net>
Subject: Re: Marquart Charger
Date: Sep 18, 2009
I'm an old DC-6 engineer we planned on 100 gallons of gas and 1 gallon
of oil per hour per engine. The oil dipstick was in 5 gal increments. If
you didn't need at least 10 gal of oil per engine you didn't bother
putting oil in. By the way the take off power was 59.5 inches at 2800
rpm with a fuel flow of 300 gal/hr per engine. The Connie in Kansas City
burns more than that and holds 7020 gallons if you fill it up and that's
without the center section tank. Mike McGowan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Talking about the fuel flow in the Beech 18 reminds me of the time
when I was a young line boy at the airport, back in the 60's. A DC-3
came in for fuel, and as I was up on the wing refueling it, the pilot
asked me to check the oil in the right engine. I found the door on the
nacelle and unscrewed the dipstick. There was a mark labelled "24" and
one at 22, and the oil level was right in between them. I yelled down
to the pilot "You've got 23 quarts."
He said "Quarts? You mean gallons. Goa ahead and put another gallon
in it." Thus it is in the world of radial engines.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:32 AM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Yes, that is Jeff Moore from Anderson, Indiana. He flew his Hatz up to
Brodhead with his daughter (she was in the seat next to me). He has a
black and yellow Hatz that is always at the flyin before Oshkosh. Next
to Jeff was Diane Gilmore, wife of Mark (Charger builder). I think we
were both in shock at the fuel flow. Fritz Badertscher was in the right
seat. Fritz is a diary farmer a couple of miles away and was one of the
Brodhead Airport founders. His hangar was the first one on the airport
(legend says). Everyone who has been to Brodhead knows of his plane.
Fritz has the red Cub that lives in the open tee hangar next to the
pavilion. I like Fritz. He is properly sized, like me. In fact he makes
me look tall. Steve Thomas was in the left seat. He and his wife Tina
own the Poplar Grove operation.
Do not arcive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 18, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Jim Markle wrote:
That video is awesome. I gotta ask though, is that someone you know
sitting in the rear seat on the Beech ride? If so, next time you talk
to them please ask how the heck someone takes THAT ride WITHOUT a huge
smile on their face????
That was neat, thanks for sharing.
thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hofmann
Sent: Sep 17, 2009 8:55 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Hey Jack,
I ran the bits through iMovie and uploaded it to my mobile me account.
It was easy. Contact me offline if you want more detail.
do not
======================
--> http://www.matr &n -
&nbs -->
http://www.matronics.com/co================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Marquart Charger
Date: Sep 18, 2009
Jack=2C
Had a similar experience when I got a little time in an AT-6 with Dick Schw
ab. People in NE ohio might remember him. When doing the preflight and ch
ecking the oil I asked how much should be in there? He said 8-10. I said q
uarts? he said no=2C gallons.
On another note when we got in and took off he told me to help him watch fo
r traffic as he had promised a fly by. When he asked if I was ready I look
ed down at the airport. We were only about 1/2 mile from the end of the ru
nway and at 200agl. I said sure. He pointed the thing down at about 50deg
and when we went screaming past the terminal bldg we were doing 260mph (we
ll past redline). I asked him if the a.s. indicator was accurate. he said
not to worry as they used to dive them to 320 all the time during WWII!
He let me fly it all the back to Kent. On of the most exciting flights I'v
e had. Unless you count the engine failure and 2 inflight fires and the ro
ck I hit on floats at about 25kts. But=2C that's not the knid of excitemen
t I like=3B-)
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Date: Fri=2C 18 Sep 2009 12:02:46 -0400
Talking about the fuel flow in the Beech 18 reminds me of the time when I w
as a young line boy at the airport=2C back in the 60=92s. A DC-3 came in f
or fuel=2C and as I was up on the wing refueling it=2C the pilot asked me t
o check the oil in the right engine. I found the door on the nacelle and u
nscrewed the dipstick. There was a mark labelled =9324=94 and one at 22=2C
and the oil level was right in between them. I yelled down to the pilot
=93You=92ve got 23 quarts.=94
He said =93Quarts? You mean gallons. Goa ahead and put another gallon in
it.=94 Thus it is in the world of radial engines.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Friday=2C September 18=2C 2009 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Yes=2C that is Jeff Moore from Anderson=2C Indiana. He flew his Hatz up to
Brodhead with his daughter (she was in the seat next to me). He has a black
and yellow Hatz that is always at the flyin before Oshkosh. Next to Jeff w
as Diane Gilmore=2C wife of Mark (Charger builder). I think we were both in
shock at the fuel flow. Fritz Badertscher was in the right seat. Fritz is
a diary farmer a couple of miles away and was one of the Brodhead Airport f
ounders. His hangar was the first one on the airport (legend says). Everyon
e who has been to Brodhead knows of his plane. Fritz has the red Cub that l
ives in the open tee hangar next to the pavilion. I like Fritz. He is prope
rly sized=2C like me. In fact he makes me look tall. Steve Thomas was in th
e left seat. He and his wife Tina own the Poplar Grove operation.
Do not arcive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President=2C Information Technology
The Rees Group=2C Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive=2C Ste 3800
Madison=2C WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Sep 18=2C 2009=2C at 8:15 AM=2C Jim Markle wrote:
>
That video is awesome. I gotta ask though=2C is that someone you know sitt
ing in the rear seat on the Beech ride? If so=2C next time you talk to the
m please ask how the heck someone takes THAT ride WITHOUT a huge smile on t
heir face????
That was neat=2C thanks for sharing.
thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hofmann
Sent: Sep 17=2C 2009 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Marquart Charger
Hey Jack=2C
I ran the bits through iMovie and uploaded it to my mobile me account. It w
as easy. Contact me offline if you want more detail.
do not ======================
--> http://www.matr &n - &n
bs --> http://www.matronics.com/co=============
===
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
_________________________________________________________________=0A
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing=99 now=0A
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta
gline_try bing_1x1
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: off subject-- Rust Buster
Those of us tearing down Corvairs or A-65s may like this.
I got this note from two friends. The first attached the article from "Turning
Wheels." The second attached a plug for Kroil, with which he has had excellent
user experience. I have none with that product. I like the acetone-ATF mix,
as well, since both are in the garage.
Tim in central TX
======================
THE BEST RUST PENETRANT?
>From Turning Wheels, August 2009, Published by the Studebaker Drivers Club
Most hobbyists have their own favorite rust-busting penetrant for loosening rusty
fasteners. Its difficult to compare products Its difficult to compare products
because
rusted parts are likely to vary as to severity of seizure.
Nonetheless, Advisor Jim Pepper forwarded results from a study undertaken by
Machinists Workshop magazine for their April 2007 issue. Therein, they tested
various penetrants for break-away torque on nuts that had been scientifically rusted
(whatever that means).
We must assume they made every attempt to insure that the nuts were equally seized
due
to rust. Its too bad they did not specify how long they allowed each product to
soak
before conducting the test. While all probably soaked the same length of time,
perhaps
some products would be more effective with a longer soak time.
Heres what they found; the torque required to remove comparable nuts from a
scientifically-rusted constant. The ATF-Acetone mix was a 50/50 home brew of
automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the home brew being better than
any