Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-io
November 18, 2009 - December 04, 2009
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-io
November 18, 2009 - December 04, 2009
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has
been used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a
Piet. Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com<mailto:hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft
grade aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft
spruce, Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
>
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
=
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Bill Rewey told me that the aviation grade is stiffer (different
alloy?) then Hardware grade. When used on the leading edge of the
wing, shrinking the covering will bend the softer grade more, changing
the airfoil shape between each rib and possibly the performance of the
wing. Then, again, didn't Bernard use cardboard "Oatmeal" boxes?
On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:52 PM, hvandervoo(at)aol.com wrote:
> What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
>
> I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
>
> But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
>
> Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry
> aircraft grade aluminum, including mill certification.
> Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft
> spruce, Wicks or Airparts
>
> Good luck
>
> Hans
> NX15KV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List
> Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
>
> >
>
>
> Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
> of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
> piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
> don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
> unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
> anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
> this way, and what was your experience with it?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
> ===================================
> =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 18, 2009
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> ...Check out the wing spar construction page on http://www.cpc-world.com
Peter's box-spar sketches joined together in single picture and cleaned in Photoshop:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273597#273597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxsparsketch_137.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Ivan,
Nice work. I'll put this one on my web site rather than the other two. Is
that OK?
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> ...Check out the wing spar construction page on http://www.cpc-world.com
Peter's box-spar sketches joined together in single picture and cleaned in
Photoshop:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273597#273597
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxsparsketch_137.jpeg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Gene,
Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets, My Piet used less 4' x 4'
He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol, or.....
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Hans
All wood Pietenpol NX15KV, with some steel and aluminum parts all wrapped
in Polyfiber
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has been
used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a Piet.
Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft grad
e aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft spruce,
Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
ircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
f aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
iece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
on't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
nroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
nyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
his way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
ir Camper NX41CC
an Antonio, TX
ailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
ebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
p://forums.matronics.com
=
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
itle=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
>www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cti
tle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
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-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
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-
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========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 18, 2009
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> Ivan,
>
> Nice work. I'll put this one on my web site rather than the other two. Is
> that OK?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> --
Of course it is OK! I want to build this spar, and I'm trying to do a CAD version
of it, but don't tell anyone yet! :) If I manage to finish it, I'll post it
here. and you can also ad that to your site.
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273608#273608
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
I ordered a sheet of .025" x 4' x 8' and it unrolled and laid perfectly flat. It
was only rolled for the time it took to get to me (about three days).
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Nov 18, 2009, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
3003 comes in 4x12 too. It can be had in differing hardnesses, I think
1/2 hard is the norm for cowlings, etc (can't say the T_ number). I am
going to a local place within the week to buy a piece for my cowlings.
Talking about something that unwinds with a fury, though, if anyone is
using hard wire (or music wire) for tail bracing or wing drag wires, I
made the mistake of holding a roll and cutting off the brass-wire ties.
It had the ends bent back 180 degrees, so as it started uncoiling, it
dug those sharp ends into my hands. I only then realized that I had no
option but to put my foot on it, cover my face, and jump off . . . it
slapped me about ten times before I got out of reach. Damn near kilt
me!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com<mailto:hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Gene,
Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets, My Piet used less 4' x 4'
He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol, or.....
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Hans
All wood Pietenpol NX15KV, with some steel and aluminum parts all
wrapped in Polyfiber
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has
been used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a
Piet. Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com<mailto:hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry
aircraft grade aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft
spruce, Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga
>
To: Pietenpol List
>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
>
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
tribution>
t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com
=
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com>
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
href="http://forums.matronics.com
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Getting In
I have see several videos of passengers getting into the front "pit. Has
anyone done one that shows how to get into the pilot's station? I got to
try one out this summer and the owner provided a step stool to climb in.
This seems like a rather poor item to have to take along with you.
Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Don't you wish you had that on video?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
3003 comes in 4x12 too. It can be had in differing hardnesses, I think 1/2
hard is the norm for cowlings, etc (can't say the T_ number). I am going to
a local place within the week to buy a piece for my cowlings.
Talking about something that unwinds with a fury, though, if anyone is using
hard wire (or music wire) for tail bracing or wing drag wires, I made the
mistake of holding a roll and cutting off the brass-wire ties. It had the
ends bent back 180 degrees, so as it started uncoiling, it dug those sharp
ends into my hands. I only then realized that I had no option but to put my
foot on it, cover my face, and jump off . . . it slapped me about ten times
before I got out of reach. Damn near kilt me!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Gene,
Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets, My Piet used less 4' x 4'
He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol, or.....
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
Hans
All wood Pietenpol NX15KV, with some steel and aluminum parts all wrapped in
Polyfiber
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has been
used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a Piet. Can
buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?
I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.
But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.
Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry aircraft grade
aluminum, including mill certification.
Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft spruce,
Wicks or Airparts
Good luck
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net Subject: Re: General Pietenpol questions
From: "njones" <deville-66(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Thanks for all the very interesting input on this subject. What really says it
all is that the Piet flys like a Cub. I will definitely get some Cub time if and
when I go this route.
PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of the
Okanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.
Nigel
--------
Nigel R. Jones
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273640#273640
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Let's not confuse stiffness with strength. All three materials have
essentially the same stiffness, but the major practical difference
between them are the yield and ultimate strengths. Until they yield,
they will deform about the same amount for a given load. After they
yield, of course, they might deform much, much more. But when designed
properly for aircraft, they should not yield at the maximum flight or
landing load. Yield, of course, is a "permanent detrimental
deformation," according the practical definition that the FAA uses,
while ultimate is defined as failure.
3003 aluminum is a very soft material. It's not used for structure, and
has limited use for formed non-structural parts. I could not find
information about this material.
6061, especially in the T6 temper, is a common material for aircraft and
non-aerospace applications such as flashlight housings. Its yield
strength is 35,000 psi and its ultimate tensile strength is 42,000 psi
when used for aircraft. It's a rugged, durable, practical material
that's relatively inexpensive. Because of these properties and its
reluctance to grow cracks, it's a common aluminum for some spacecraft
structures.
2024-T3 is a common aircraft material. The strength varies slightly
depending on its shape, for example, tube, extrusion, sheet or bar. For
sheet, its yield strength in tension is 42,000 psi and its ultimate
strength is 63,000 psi. It's a strong aluminum alloy, readily available
but more expensive than 6061-T6. It is more susceptible to cracking and
crack growth than 6061-T6, but that's a matter of degree, so don't let
that frighten you away from it.
The stiffness and strength are two entirely different properties. Since
I've just supplied the strength numbers, let's briefly discuss
stiffness. All these materials have about the same Young's modulus of
elasticity, which is the term for the property of stiffness. As I
mentioned, I found no data for 3003, but 6061-T6 has a stiffness of 9.9
million psi and 2024-T3 sheet has a stiffness of 10.5 million psi, or
about 6% stiffer than the 6061.
One of the interesting factoids of stress analysis is that light
aluminum structures are often critical in buckling. And buckling turns
out to be primarily sensitive to the stiffness, rather than strength, at
least until it is highly loaded. Of course a structual engineer has to
check strength as well as buckling, because you can't just expect that
one or the other will dominate.
David Paule
B-T-W
3003 is very soft.
6061 is twice as stiff
and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
Regards
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Done,
Thanks Ivan
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 8:32 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au wrote:
> Ivan,
>
> Nice work. I'll put this one on my web site rather than the other two. Is
> that OK?
>
> Cheers
>
> Peter
> --
Of course it is OK! I want to build this spar, and I'm trying to do a CAD
version of it, but don't tell anyone yet! :) If I manage to finish it, I'll
post it here. and you can also ad that to your site.
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273608#273608
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: shipping aluminum sheet
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Hans wrote-
>Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheets
Yup.
>He is clearly building an all aluminum Pietenpol
Nope. Just thinking about making quite a number
of aluminum parts for something. Jim Markle knows ;o)
>3003 is very soft. 6061 is twice as stiff
>and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.
What I need is 6061 T-6. Thanks for all the help;
I have a quote request in to Trident in Austin
since we use materials from them at my workplace and
they deliver to us frequently.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: built up spars
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Thanks, everyone, for the info and leads on the
built-up spar. Of the articles posted on the
Westcoastpiet site, note carefully the information
given in the addendum to the article that ran years
ago in the old EAA Design Manuals (which I am very
fortunate to have at least some of). Referring to
I-shape compared to box beams, there are distinct
advantages. The UK built-up spar with its C-shape
as a compromise between the I-beam and the full box,
has some of the advantages of both. Note, however,
that the I-shape is inherently more resistant to
having the web buckle, which is why the UK spar has
vertical stiffeners between the capstrips at each
rib position.
To take the I-shape to what I would call "elegant
overkill", consider the spars on Mike Cuy's wing.
Refer to the sketches and photos of his wings and
spars that Mike provided on the Westcoastpiet site.
In essence, since Mike's spars use a solid 1/2"
spruce web, he has the best of all worlds in that
he has essentially a 1" square top and bottom flange
to take the tension and compression loads and a solid
1/2" web of spruce for shear. With that thickness
(as opposed to, say, using 1/8" or even 1/2" ply for
the web), his spar does not require stiffeners to
provide buckling resistance for the web. Note the
photos of Mike's wing before covering... there are
no vertical stiffeners at each rib. It is hell for
stout and, as I say, "elegant overkill". It could
doubtless be engineered to a slimmer profile but it
is clean and effective. However, there is still the
cost of that spruce in straight, clear lengths.
For us cheapskates still trying to use thinner and
less expensive stock and either scarfing or laminating
things so we don't have to use long expensive pieces of
clear wood, and trying to use plywood for the web rather
than spruce planks, the approach becomes one of
engineering a built-up section with equivalent strength.
This is where I am right now, and Jim Markle knows why ;o)
Meanwhile, 41CC soldiers on... putting grins on faces
all over south Texas as the C75 begins to break in and
pull stronger with every passing flight.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: built up spars
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Oscar,
Don't forget also that the UK Piets (and mine) have a full "D" section from
the top of the front spar over the leading edge to the bottom of the front
spar. Makes for a really strong spar..
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: built up spars
Thanks, everyone, for the info and leads on the
built-up spar. Of the articles posted on the
Westcoastpiet site, note carefully the information
given in the addendum to the article that ran years
ago in the old EAA Design Manuals (which I am very
fortunate to have at least some of). Referring to
I-shape compared to box beams, there are distinct
advantages. The UK built-up spar with its C-shape
as a compromise between the I-beam and the full box,
has some of the advantages of both. Note, however,
that the I-shape is inherently more resistant to
having the web buckle, which is why the UK spar has
vertical stiffeners between the capstrips at each
rib position.
To take the I-shape to what I would call "elegant
overkill", consider the spars on Mike Cuy's wing.
Refer to the sketches and photos of his wings and
spars that Mike provided on the Westcoastpiet site.
In essence, since Mike's spars use a solid 1/2"
spruce web, he has the best of all worlds in that
he has essentially a 1" square top and bottom flange
to take the tension and compression loads and a solid
1/2" web of spruce for shear. With that thickness
(as opposed to, say, using 1/8" or even 1/2" ply for
the web), his spar does not require stiffeners to
provide buckling resistance for the web. Note the
photos of Mike's wing before covering... there are
no vertical stiffeners at each rib. It is hell for
stout and, as I say, "elegant overkill". It could
doubtless be engineered to a slimmer profile but it
is clean and effective. However, there is still the
cost of that spruce in straight, clear lengths.
For us cheapskates still trying to use thinner and
less expensive stock and either scarfing or laminating
things so we don't have to use long expensive pieces of
clear wood, and trying to use plywood for the web rather
than spruce planks, the approach becomes one of
engineering a built-up section with equivalent strength.
This is where I am right now, and Jim Markle knows why ;o)
Meanwhile, 41CC soldiers on... putting grins on faces
all over south Texas as the C75 begins to break in and
pull stronger with every passing flight.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: General Pietenpol questions
Date: Nov 18, 2009
You got it good up there. :-)
Down here in Vancouver it's heavy rain and so windy
the Ferries have been cancelled.
Clif
>
> PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of
> the Okanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.
>
> Nigel
>
> --------
> Nigel R. Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <catdesigns(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Upper Flying Strut Fitting, Possibe Plans Error
Date: Nov 18, 2009
Seeing as I started this thread I should show what I ended up doing.
On both sides of the spar under the fitting I added 1/8-inch Birch plywood
plates 12-inches long tapered on both ends to avoid sudden change in spare
cross section. I did not weld the two straps together.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Subject: Re: Upper Flying Strut Fitting, Possibe Plans Error
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Finer thaan frog hair!
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 2:47 AM, wrote:
> Seeing as I started this thread I should show what I ended up doing.
>
> On both sides of the spar under the fitting I added 1/8-inch Birch plywood
> plates 12-inches long tapered on both ends to avoid sudden change in spare
> cross section. I did not weld the two straps together.
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2009
From: <psiegel(at)fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Choices A-65
I flew an A-65 Champ with a Sensenich W72 CK44 wooden prop, and in the Cincinnati
summer heat it was a real dog with two on board.
Switching to the recommended metal "climb" prop, a Sensenich 74CK-0-44, transformed
that Champ into a real nice performer even a full gross on the hottest summer
days!
Has anybody tried one of those sweet Sensenich ground adjustable composite props
on a Piet?
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rib/spar orientation
From: "vman1922" <kkamp72(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
In the layout of a 612 rib template I am not sure what to use as a vertical reference
for the spar. Should it be 90 degrees from the cord line or 90 degrees
from the bottom wing surface????????
I believe this would also affect the angle of incidence.
Thanks! You all make this a great place to exchange info!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273696#273696
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: built up spars
>For us cheapskates still trying to use thinner and
>less expensive stock and either scarfing or laminating
>things so we don't have to use long expensive pieces of
>clear wood, and trying to use plywood for the web rather
>than spruce planks, the approach becomes one of
>engineering a built-up section with equivalent strength.
>This is where I am right now, and Jim Markle knows why ;o)
>
WHAT? Who, me???? Uhhh, I'll just say that lighter (with equivalent strength)
is always better!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Subject: Re: rib/spar orientation
From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)gmail.com>
IMHO, considering incidence is measured with respect to chord line, making
the spar perpendicular to the chord would make it easier (mathematically) to
select the strut lengths. Having said that, I don't think it is hard at all
to figure out what the lengths would be in case the spar was perpendicular
to the bottom of the airfoil.
Ameet
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 6:54 AM, vman1922 wrote:
>
> In the layout of a 612 rib template I am not sure what to use as a vertical
> reference for the spar. Should it be 90 degrees from the cord line or 90
> degrees from the bottom wing surface????????
>
> I believe this would also affect the angle of incidence.
>
> Thanks! You all make this a great place to exchange info!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rib/spar orientation
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Mr V
I used the 90 Deg, from the cord line as Mr R. suggested. He also suggested 1 Deg.
angle of incidence on the 612. I would go with 1/2 Degree AoI, I also have
the short version Piet, My long version worked well with 1-1/2deg.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273701#273701
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Peter,
Please check if I've messed the dimensions for the front spar on the drawings below.
Maybe it is a stupid question, but better safe than sorry: spar face with full
plywood web goes in the wing-tip direction for both spars, front and rear, right?
There is a small drawing near the right edge of your sketch that made me uncertain
about that.
One other thing: vertical stiffeners position on the spar inside edge would need
a hint or two, there are several dimensions (7 1/2), (1/2 + 8 1/2) that are
a bit confusing.
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273710#273710
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/frontsparinside_144.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/frontspartip_262.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rib/spar orientation
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Mr Lowell,
Have you changed the spar positions when you've changed the airfoil, or you have
left them exactly where they are on FC10?
Regards,
Ivan Todorovic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273718#273718
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bernard Pietenpol - Corvair Oil Pan Conversion
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Here are a couple of Pictures of a Corvair Oil Pan that had the ears welded on
by Mr. Pietenpol.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273744#273744
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pan2_173.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pan1_189.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: rib/spar orientation
Date: Nov 19, 2009
The spars won't care if they are a few degrees one way or the other. But if
you happened to get the rib lay-out from the Pietenpol family, it shows
where those uprights are intended to be. However, the strength of the wing
isn't very sensitive to that angle, as long as it's not too far off.
Just to be clear, I'm talking about the angle of the spar with regard to the
chord or the bottom of the wing. I'm not talking about the angle of
incidence.
David Paule
>
>
> I used the 90 Deg, from the cord line as Mr R. suggested.....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: rib/spar orientation
Date: Nov 19, 2009
My own take on it is that the spar orientation should be
relative to the chord line of the selected airfoil. The
quirk in the deal is that some of the older airfoils were
referenced to a line along the bottom, which made some sense
with flat-bottomed airfoils like the USA35. However,
camber and cusp change the picture, plus the fact that all
modern airfoils and all analysis programs reference the
mean aerodynamic chord (I believe). In any case, the Riblett
is not a flat-bottomed airfoil and all of its published
characteristics are referenced to the chord.
I wish the world was simple again, like it used to be ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: static thrust
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
if anybody is interested enough to spend some money for a tester-there is one on
E-bay that looks pretty nice in the aircraft parts site.it has a 400# range.probably
imported but should b fairly accurate. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273788#273788
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Ivan,
Comments embedded.........
Please check if I've messed the dimensions for the front spar on the
drawings below.
................all look good.
Maybe it is a stupid question, but better safe than sorry: spar face with
full plywood web goes in the wing-tip direction for both spars, front and
rear, right? There is a small drawing near the right edge of your sketch
that made me uncertain about that.
................do you mean the grain of the plywood? If so yes main grain
is along the length of the spar
One other thing: vertical stiffeners position on the spar inside edge would
need a hint or two, there are several dimensions (7 1/2), (1/2 + 8 1/2) that
are a bit confusing.
................Not sure what you mean here, the wing join ends are 7 1/2",
the center (wing spar strut fitting) 25 1/2", the wing tip 4 1/2". There is
blocking at each wing rib position, pulley fixing position and compression
strut fitting.
................Does all that help?
Cheers
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Peter,
I've looked at Piet plans and it helped to clarify some dimensions, I'm drawing
on, give me a day or two to finish it.
My question was so stupid - you haven't seen what is puzzling me, but let me embarace
my self again and put it differently: when you build the whole front spar,
and the spar box has so called "U" shape, do you rotate the bottom of the
letter "U" towards the tip of the wing, not towards the rear spar?
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273802#273802
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: static thrust
Date: Nov 19, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Gentlemen,
Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or almost
flying?). I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46 prop. I
would be curious how this stands up to others.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Ivan,
Sorry, check out page 6 of the build pictures. They show the ply side on the
inside of the wing.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 11:22 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
Peter,
I've looked at Piet plans and it helped to clarify some dimensions, I'm
drawing on, give me a day or two to finish it.
My question was so stupid - you haven't seen what is puzzling me, but let me
embarace my self again and put it differently: when you build the whole
front spar, and the spar box has so called "U" shape, do you rotate the
bottom of the letter "U" towards the tip of the wing, not towards the rear
spar?
Regards,
Ivan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: static thrust
Dan
I have the results of my static thrust testing at http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html. Corvair with a homemade prop. 2500 RPM static giving 280 lbs thrust. I spoke with William Wynne at Oshkosh, and he indicated that for a Piet I should be more like 2700 RPM and 350 lbs thrust. I may look at getting a Warp prop. It is highly likely that the factory can make a better prop than I can.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:49:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Gentlemen,
Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or almost flying?).
I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46 prop. I would be curious
how this stands up to others.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: static thrust
Date: Nov 19, 2009
A lower-pitch prop will give you higher static RPM and greater static
thrust. If you are otherwise happy with the prop, that's the only change
needed. Besides, your next prop will be faster to make and possibly
better, right?
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Dan
I have the results of my static thrust testing at
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html. Corvair with a
homemade prop. 2500 RPM static giving 280 lbs thrust. I spoke with
William Wynne at Oshkosh, and he indicated that for a Piet I should be
more like 2700 RPM and 350 lbs thrust. I may look at getting a Warp
prop. It is highly likely that the factory can make a better prop than
I can.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:49:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Gentlemen,
Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or
almost flying?). I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46
prop. I would be curious how this stands up to others.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Ah, Ivan, When you say "tip" do you mean the "leading edge",
or front of the wing?
> Peter,
when you build the whole front spar, and the spar box has so called "U"
shape, do you rotate the bottom of the letter "U" towards the tip of the
wing, not towards the rear spar?
>
> Regards,
> Ivan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: static thrust
David
All true. I must admit that making the prop (per Alvin Schubert) was probab
ly my favorite part of building the Piet so far. I did build it 66 inches,
with the intent of trimming an inch or two to get more RPM if needed. I wil
l have to see what more RPMs but a smaller disk does to the thrust. Experim
ental aircraft right!
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:17:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
=EF=BB
A lower-pitch prop will give you higher static RPM and greater static thrus
t. If you are otherwise happy with the prop, that's the only change needed.
Besides, your next prop will be faster to make and possibly better, right?
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Dan
I have the results of my static thrust testing at http://home.comcast.net/~
mmorrison123/engine_test.html . Corvair with a homemade prop. 2500 RPM stat
ic giving 280 lbs thrust. I spoke with William Wynne at Oshkosh, and he ind
icated that for a Piet I should be more like 2700 RPM and 350 lbs thrust. I
may look at getting a Warp prop. It is highly likely that the factory can
make a better prop than I can.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:49:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Gentlemen,
Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or almost fl
ying?). I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46 prop. I would
be curious how this stands up to others.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=======
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2009
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
I think what they are talking about is a d-cell thats an upper case D
imagine the D being the leading edge of the wing and the top of the
D is a material such as a wooden spare with a thin piece of plywood
wrapped around to the bottom of the spare.
I imagine that the hold concept would be stronger and more rigid
but then I'm not an engineer,
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 7:22 PM, ivan.todorovic wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> I've looked at Piet plans and it helped to clarify some dimensions, I'm
> drawing on, give me a day or two to finish it.
>
> My question was so stupid - you haven't seen what is puzzling me, but let
> me embarace my self again and put it differently: when you build the whole
> front spar, and the spar box has so called "U" shape, do you rotate the
> bottom of the letter "U" towards the tip of the wing, not towards the rear
> spar?
>
> Regards,
> Ivan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273802#273802
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: static thrust
Date: Nov 19, 2009
As long as the diameter is not too large for the maximum rpm, greater
diameter is more efficient.
If you imagine a graph of speed on the horizontal axis and efficiency on
the vertical axis, increasing the diameter causes the efficiency to go
up. Lowering the pitch causes the efficiency to occur at a lower speed.
Of course you've got to make sure that your prop isn't too long for the
engine. And that takes a balance between pitch and diameter, plus some
of the art of building props. And that art, alas, is beyond me. I'm
merely an engineer.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
David
All true. I must admit that making the prop (per Alvin Schubert) was
probably my favorite part of building the Piet so far. I did build it
66 inches, with the intent of trimming an inch or two to get more RPM if
needed. I will have to see what more RPMs but a smaller disk does to
the thrust. Experimental aircraft right!
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:17:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
=EF=BB
A lower-pitch prop will give you higher static RPM and greater static
thrust. If you are otherwise happy with the prop, that's the only change
needed. Besides, your next prop will be faster to make and possibly
better, right?
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Dan
I have the results of my static thrust testing at
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html. Corvair with a
homemade prop. 2500 RPM static giving 280 lbs thrust. I spoke with
William Wynne at Oshkosh, and he indicated that for a Piet I should be
more like 2700 RPM and 350 lbs thrust. I may look at getting a Warp
prop. It is highly likely that the factory can make a better prop than
I can.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:49:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Gentlemen,
Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or
almost flying?). I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46
prop. I would be curious how this stands up to others.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few Days Left; Still Trailing Last Year...
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response
has been very good, but still well behind last year. If you've been waiting until
the last minute to make your contribution and maybe even pick up a great
gift, now might be good time to show your support!
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means of keeping these Lists running is through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rib/spar orientation
From: "vman1922" <kkamp72(at)comcast.net>
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Thanks to all of you for your replies. They helped the old brain better see things.
I have used my eraser. I will use the cord line - it is about two degrees
different.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273940#273940
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Subject: Re: Bernard Pietenpol - Corvair Oil Pan Conversion
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Much better welds than I could have done with my tig.
rick
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:49 PM, dwilson wrote:
>
> Here are a couple of Pictures of a Corvair Oil Pan that had the ears welded
> on by Mr. Pietenpol.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273744#273744
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pan2_173.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pan1_189.jpg
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: General Pietenpol questions
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Negel, if you haven't already joined, I would suggest joining the Yahoo
Flybaby List. There are some on that list that are from your area and at
least one that I know of that has flown both the flybaby and the Piet. I
would suggest belonging to both lists to anyone that is building or owns a
wooden airplane. Lots of good info and frendly folks.
Gene
N502R in sunny & beautiful Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "njones" <deville-66(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: General Pietenpol questions
>
> Thanks for all the very interesting input on this subject. What really
> says it all is that the Piet flys like a Cub. I will definitely get some
> Cub time if and when I go this route.
>
> PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of
> the Okanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.
>
> Nigel
>
> --------
> Nigel R. Jones
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=273640#273640
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:41:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: General Pietenpol questions
And just to throw another pot on the fire, you should also look into the
flitzer-builders mailing list on Yahoo, too. Again, it's a great list
to belong to if you're thinking of building a wooden aircraft and lots
of friendly folks over there.
There's something about those old wooden airplanes that attracts the
best kind of people...
Cheers,
Dan
Gene & Tammy wrote:
>
>
> Negel, if you haven't already joined, I would suggest joining the Yahoo
> Flybaby List. There are some on that list that are from your area and
> at least one that I know of that has flown both the flybaby and the
> Piet. I would suggest belonging to both lists to anyone that is
> building or owns a wooden airplane. Lots of good info and frendly folks.
> Gene
> N502R in sunny & beautiful Tennessee
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: removing contact cement
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Does anyone have recommendations regarding how to
remove contact cement from painted surfaces? For
example, if a gasket or trim comes off of an auto
and needs to be reattached but there is contact
cement residue (the typical yellow cement), is there
something that will release the old cement without
harming the paint?
Most cement cans, like the Weldwood that I have,
says to use mineral spirits for cleanup but before
I try it I thought I'd ask. The paint is enamel.
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: removing contact cement
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Lighter fluid.......................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: removing contact cement
>
>
> Does anyone have recommendations regarding how to
> remove contact cement from painted surfaces? For
> example, if a gasket or trim comes off of an auto
> and needs to be reattached but there is contact
> cement residue (the typical yellow cement), is there
> something that will release the old cement without
> harming the paint?
>
> Most cement cans, like the Weldwood that I have,
> says to use mineral spirits for cleanup but before
> I try it I thought I'd ask. The paint is enamel.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: removing contact cement
The Stewart Systems DVD shows them removing their cement (which has been described
by some as "just like rubber cement") with one of those big soft rubbery looking
cleaning stick thingys you clean sanding disks/belts with....
Couldn't hurt to give it a try....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>Sent: Nov 20, 2009 4:03 PM
>To: Pietenpol List
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: removing contact cement
>
>
>Does anyone have recommendations regarding how to
>remove contact cement from painted surfaces? For
>example, if a gasket or trim comes off of an auto
>and needs to be reattached but there is contact
>cement residue (the typical yellow cement), is there
>something that will release the old cement without
>harming the paint?
>
>Most cement cans, like the Weldwood that I have,
>says to use mineral spirits for cleanup but before
>I try it I thought I'd ask. The paint is enamel.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: shipping aluminum sheet
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Okay sports fans a plug for my employer Macsteel Service Centers USA. Look them
up on the website. You may find exactly what you're looking for right down the
street from your home. Call place the order pay for it when you pick it up
and you're done. Just like a Piet, simple, light and cheap what could be easier?
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Subject: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Sent: Nov 18, 2009 11:11 AM
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets
of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one
piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they
don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will
unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has
anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled
this way, and what was your experience with it?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: removing contact cement
Date: Nov 20, 2009
I have had good luck with Goof Off from the hardware store. Also, VM&P
Naptha works well.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 3:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: removing contact cement
Does anyone have recommendations regarding how to
remove contact cement from painted surfaces? For
example, if a gasket or trim comes off of an auto
and needs to be reattached but there is contact
cement residue (the typical yellow cement), is there
something that will release the old cement without
harming the paint?
Most cement cans, like the Weldwood that I have,
says to use mineral spirits for cleanup but before
I try it I thought I'd ask. The paint is enamel.
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Subject: Re: static thrust
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Good analysis work Malcolm. How did you measure your static thrust? I am
also test running a WW Corvair conversion but with an MA3 and get 2950 with
a 66x30 Tennessee prop, running at 6700 ft. (around 18% less HP than sea
level).
Rick
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM, wrote:
> Dan
>
> I have the results of my static thrust testing at
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html>.
> Corvair with a homemade prop. 2500 RPM static giving 280 lbs thrust. I
> spoke with William Wynne at Oshkosh, and he indicated that for a Piet I
> should be more like 2700 RPM and 350 lbs thrust. I may look at getting a
> Warp prop. It is highly likely that the factory can make a better prop than
> I can.
>
> Malcolm Morrison
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: helspersew(at)aol.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:49:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or almost
> flying?). I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46 prop. I
> would be curious how this stands up to others.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2009
Subject: Re: removing contact cement
From: Lloyd Smith <lesmith240(at)gmail.com>
If the above items don't work, toluene or MEK will work, but they would be a
last resort item and I'd definitely test it on an inconspicuous area first.
They are pretty aggressive solvents, but are recommended for thinning 1300L,
the yellow snot adhesive you're probably dealing with.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Dick N. wrote:
>
> I have had good luck with Goof Off from the hardware store. Also, VM&P
> Naptha works well.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
>
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 3:03 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: removing contact cement
>
>
> Does anyone have recommendations regarding how to
> remove contact cement from painted surfaces? For
> example, if a gasket or trim comes off of an auto
> and needs to be reattached but there is contact
> cement residue (the typical yellow cement), is there
> something that will release the old cement without
> harming the paint?
>
> Most cement cans, like the Weldwood that I have,
> says to use mineral spirits for cleanup but before
> I try it I thought I'd ask. The paint is enamel.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: static thrust
Thanks Rick
I measured the thrust with a large spring pull gauge, like you might use to weigh
a fish. The first gauge I used only measured up to 200 lbs so I hooked a pulley
to the tail of the Piet and ran a rope from the trailer hitch on my car,
through the pulley, and back to the gauge, which was also hooked to my trailer
hitch. Later I borrowed a 300 lb gauge and did away with the pulley. Both setups
gave the same readings and I verified the gauge readings by hanging myself
from a tree. No harm done! Good luck with your project and keep us posted on
your test run results. It sounds like your RPMs are very good for your prop and
it would be interesting to see what the thrust is.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Holland" <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 7:27:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Good analysis work Malcolm. How did you measure your static thrust? I am also test
running a WW Corvair conversion but with an MA3 and get 2950 with a 66x30
Tennessee prop, running at 6700 ft. (around 18% less HP than sea level).
Rick
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 8:37 PM, < gliderx5(at)comcast.net > wrote:
Dan
I have the results of my static thrust testing at http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/engine_test.html . Corvair with a homemade prop. 2500 RPM static giving 280 lbs thrust. I spoke with William Wynne at Oshkosh, and he indicated that for a Piet I should be more like 2700 RPM and 350 lbs thrust. I may look at getting a Warp prop. It is highly likely that the factory can make a better prop than I can.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:49:50 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: static thrust
Gentlemen,
Has anyone done a static thrust test on their flying airplane (or almost flying?).
I have measured 265 lbs. with my Model A and my 76/46 prop. I would be curious
how this stands up to others.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: removing contact cement
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Oscar=2C
Depends on the paint. If it's and OEM finnish on a car or truck built w/in
the last 20yrs then laquer thinner is fine. For any other paint I wouldn'
t go any harsher than a cleaner/degreaser sold at any automotive paint shop
=2C but I'm not sure that it will cut contact cement.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: removing contact cement
> Date: Fri=2C 20 Nov 2009 15:03:44 -0600
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have recommendations regarding how to
> remove contact cement from painted surfaces? For
> example=2C if a gasket or trim comes off of an auto
> and needs to be reattached but there is contact
> cement residue (the typical yellow cement)=2C is there
> something that will release the old cement without
> harming the paint?
>
> Most cement cans=2C like the Weldwood that I have=2C
> says to use mineral spirits for cleanup but before
> I try it I thought I'd ask. The paint is enamel.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio=2C TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: I wanted simpler=2C now it's simpler. I'm a rock star.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=P
ID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:112009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Subject: Covering question - drain grommets
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems stuff (its
great not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed garage). Would like
opinions about installing drain grommets, seems to be 3 ways to do it:
1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2" patch
Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Covering question - drain grommets
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2009
I used drain grommets on my wing and burned holes on the tail. I'm not too crazy
about the drain grommets. Ugly and just add to something else that can peel
and you have to kind of sand around them in the build up coats. I'm just about
ready to start spraying the build up coats on my Chief now. I'm just burning
holes in with the solder iron after it's finished through color. It's neater
and simpler too. Just make sure it is on a tape and not just out in single
layer fabric.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274090#274090
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Covering question - drain grommets
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Rick,
I am a little ahead of you with the Stewart System. I just took a solderin
g iron with a blunt round end (I think about 3/16") and burned right throu
gh. Be careful not to go through to the other side. "Measure twice, burn
once." I see no reason to use drain grommets.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:54 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems stuff (its
great not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed garage). Would li
ke opinions about installing drain grommets, seems to be 3 ways to do it:
1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2" patch
Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Covering question - drain grommets
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Dan, thats two votes for just burning drain holes and forgetting the
grommets. That sounds good to me.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, wrote:
> Rick,
>
> I am a little ahead of you with the Stewart System. I just took a soldering
> iron with a blunt round end (I think about 3/16") and burned right through.
> Be careful not to go through to the other side. "Measure twice, burn
> once." I see no reason to use drain grommets.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:54 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
>
> Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems stuff (its
> great not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed garage). Would like
> opinions about installing drain grommets, seems to be 3 ways to do it:
>
> 1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
> 2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
> 3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2" patch
>
> Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> ===================================
> =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Subject: Center section question
From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Has anyone glued their center section floor on the outside of the ribs and
compressions struts?
Looks like on the plans you glue it to the spars, which leaves space between
the floor and the 2" wide plywood rib braces along the bottom of each rib.
I thought if I used one piece of plywood as the floor out to the ribs it can
serve as a the rib braces too. I could ad cap strips to the bottom of the
spars to provide a gluing surface even with the bottom of the ribs.
Does this make any sense? Anyone see any problems?
As an aside, I was scraping the second layer of wall paper off my kitchen
this morning when I remembered that I bought this old house six years ago.
At the time, I mentioned to Jim Markle (a customer of my dad's parts supply
business) that I'd have it all fixed up in about six months so I could get
back to the Pietenpol. He said something like "I'd give it six years" And
I'm just now finishing up the worst of it. But I have worked in a little
Pietenpol time.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Center section question
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2009
TmV2ZXIgdW5kZXJlc3RpbWF0ZSB0aGUgYWxsIGtub3dpbmcsIGFsbCBzZWVpbmcgIE1hcmtsZSEN
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aWV0ZW5wb2wgdGltZS4NCg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Center section question
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Ken,
I'm just finishing up some varnishing on my center section now. I glued
floor to spars and compression struts, as per plans. Your idea might be OK,
but I don't see how you are going to attach to the spars, unless you use a
filler piece. That might be OK, too. Other than that, I don't see a problem
(or an advantage). Yes, there is a gap between the floor and the rib braces,
but all covers up with fabric.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section question
Has anyone glued their center section floor on the outside of the ribs and
compressions struts?
Looks like on the plans you glue it to the spars, which leaves space between
the floor and the 2" wide plywood rib braces along the bottom of each rib.
I thought if I used one piece of plywood as the floor out to the ribs it can
serve as a the rib braces too. I could ad cap strips to the bottom of the
spars to provide a gluing surface even with the bottom of the ribs.
Does this make any sense? Anyone see any problems?
As an aside, I was scraping the second layer of wall paper off my kitchen
this morning when I remembered that I bought this old house six years ago.
At the time, I mentioned to Jim Markle (a customer of my dad's parts supply
business) that I'd have it all fixed up in about six months so I could get
back to the Pietenpol. He said something like "I'd give it six years" And
I'm just now finishing up the worst of it. But I have worked in a little
Pietenpol time.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Center section question
From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Gary, your answer brings up another question I have. In the
description of the compression strut, my plans say: "Bottom edge cut out to
match bottom curve of wing rib."
So wouldn't this mean that you couldn't glue the floor to the spars and the
compression struts unless you had a filler to make the spars the same level
?
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> Ken,
>
>
> I=92m just finishing up some varnishing on my center section now. I glued
> floor to spars and compression struts, as per plans. Your idea might be O
K,
> but I don=92t see how you are going to attach to the spars, unless you us
e a
> filler piece. That might be OK, too. Other than that, I don=92t see a pro
blem
> (or an advantage). Yes, there is a gap between the floor and the rib brac
es,
> but all covers up with fabric.
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (15 ribs down=85)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Chambers
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:02 PM
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Center section question
>
>
> Has anyone glued their center section floor on the outside of the ribs an
d
> compressions struts?
>
> Looks like on the plans you glue it to the spars, which leaves space
> between the floor and the 2" wide plywood rib braces along the bottom of
> each rib.
>
> I thought if I used one piece of plywood as the floor out to the ribs it
> can serve as a the rib braces too. I could ad cap strips to the bottom of
> the spars to provide a gluing surface even with the bottom of the ribs.
>
> Does this make any sense? Anyone see any problems?
>
> As an aside, I was scraping the second layer of wall paper off my kitchen
> this morning when I remembered that I bought this old house six years ago
.
> At the time, I mentioned to Jim Markle (a customer of my dad's parts supp
ly
> business) that I'd have it all fixed up in about six months so I could ge
t
> back to the Pietenpol. He said something like "I'd give it six years" And
> I'm just now finishing up the worst of it. But I have worked in a little
> Pietenpol time.
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *www.aeroelectric.com*
>
> *www.homebuilthelp.com*
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: This is different- pilot step
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Guys,
Here is a pic of the protective plate I just finished that goes around the
pilot step. Only had to make it twice to get it right. I saw one like thi
s on an antique biplane at Oshkosh.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pilot step
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Forgot to attach photo.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: travel
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2009
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pilot step
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Killer job Dan, looks great!
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:13:55
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pilot step
Forgot to attach photo.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: This is different- pilot step
Ok, let's see it!!! :-)
I didn't get the attachment...
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Nov 21, 2009 3:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: This is different- pilot step
Hi Guys,
Here is a pic of the protective plate I just finished that goes around the pilot
step. Only had to make it twice to get it right. I saw one like this on an antique
biplane at Oshkosh.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Center section question
Date: Nov 21, 2009
I'm sure others have done differently, but I took this to mean that, when
the compression strut is even with the bottom of the spar, there is an area,
only in the middle, that needs to be matched to the rib curve.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Center section question
Thanks Gary, your answer brings up another question I have. In the
description of the compression strut, my plans say: "Bottom edge cut out to
match bottom curve of wing rib."
So wouldn't this mean that you couldn't glue the floor to the spars and the
compression struts unless you had a filler to make the spars the same level?
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
Ken,
I'm just finishing up some varnishing on my center section now. I glued
floor to spars and compression struts, as per plans. Your idea might be OK,
but I don't see how you are going to attach to the spars, unless you use a
filler piece. That might be OK, too. Other than that, I don't see a problem
(or an advantage). Yes, there is a gap between the floor and the rib braces,
but all covers up with fabric.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Chambers
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Center section question
Has anyone glued their center section floor on the outside of the ribs and
compressions struts?
Looks like on the plans you glue it to the spars, which leaves space between
the floor and the 2" wide plywood rib braces along the bottom of each rib.
I thought if I used one piece of plywood as the floor out to the ribs it can
serve as a the rib braces too. I could ad cap strips to the bottom of the
spars to provide a gluing surface even with the bottom of the ribs.
Does this make any sense? Anyone see any problems?
As an aside, I was scraping the second layer of wall paper off my kitchen
this morning when I remembered that I bought this old house six years ago.
At the time, I mentioned to Jim Markle (a customer of my dad's parts supply
business) that I'd have it all fixed up in about six months so I could get
back to the Pietenpol. He said something like "I'd give it six years" And
I'm just now finishing up the worst of it. But I have worked in a little
Pietenpol time.
www.aeroelectric.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pilot step
Rolling the material around the corner into the inside of the opening is a very
nice touch!
Sweet.
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Nov 21, 2009 3:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pilot step
Forgot to attach photo.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Center section question
As an aside, I was scraping the second layer of wall paper off my kitchen this
morning when I remembered that I bought this old house six years ago. At the time,
I mentioned to Jim Markle (a customer of my dad's parts supply business)
that I'd have it all fixed up in about six months so I could get back to the Pietenpol.
He said something like "I'd give it six years" And I'm just now finishing
up the worst of it. But I have worked in a little Pietenpol time.
Believe me, that estimate was based on experience.....I'm just glad to see you
back to work on what REALLY matters!
I miss going out to see your dad and being able to ask questions about aviation
supplies and get an answer from someone who knew what they were talking about....plus
he's just a nice guy.
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Center section question
I think I used a 1/8inch filler on the bottom of the spars, and glued
the compression struts 1/8 inch above the bottom of the ribs, to make
the floor flush with the bottom of the ribs. When I made the 1/16 inch
cap strips I tapered the inside edge with sandpaper before glueing it in
place and overlapped the floor by 1/2 inch, which tied the whole thing
together (made that cap strip 2-1/2 inch wide)
Ben Charvet
Piet is done, now overhauling the A-65.
Ken Chambers wrote:
>
> Thanks Gary, your answer brings up another question I have. In the
> description of the compression strut, my plans say: "Bottom edge cut
> out to match bottom curve of wing rib."
>
> So wouldn't this mean that you couldn't glue the floor to the spars
> and the compression struts unless you had a filler to make the spars
> the same level?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Pilot step
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Holy cow, looks like modern art.
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM, wrote:
> Forgot to attach photo.
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2009
Subject: Re: Center section question
From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Hey Jim
Dad asked where you've been. I told him I was afraid that you had moved up
north.
Dad's retiring more every month. Gradually getting rid of his inventory, but
still building and flying airplanes.
Ken
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Jim Markle wrote:
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> As an aside, I was scraping the second layer of wall paper off my kitchen
> this morning when I remembered that I bought this old house six years ago.
> At the time, I mentioned to Jim Markle (a customer of my dad's parts supply
> business) that I'd have it all fixed up in about six months so I could get
> back to the Pietenpol. He said something like "I'd give it six years" And
> I'm just now finishing up the worst of it. But I have worked in a little
> Pietenpol time.
>
>
> Believe me, that estimate was based on experience.....I'm just glad to see
> you back to work on what REALLY matters!
>
> I miss going out to see your dad and being able to ask questions about
> aviation supplies and get an answer from someone who knew what they were
> talking about....plus he's just a nice guy.
>
> jm
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Covering question - drain grommets
Date: Nov 22, 2009
burning holes is fine, and I will probably do it, but keep in mind that
the shape of the grommets creates a kind of venturi that vents the area.
It might do a better job than a mere hole.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Thanks Dan, thats two votes for just burning drain holes and
forgetting the grommets. That sounds good to me.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM,
> wrote:
Rick,
I am a little ahead of you with the Stewart System. I just took a
soldering iron with a blunt round end (I think about 3/16") and burned
right through. Be careful not to go through to the other side. "Measure
twice, burn once." I see no reason to use drain grommets.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:54 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems stuff
(its great not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed garage).
Would like opinions about installing drain grommets, seems to be 3 ways
to do it:
1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2"
patch
Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
tribution>
t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: This is different- pilot step
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2009
Hmm, sure leaves a lot to the imagination.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274292#274292
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pilot step
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Nov 22, 2009
Yeah... wow! That looks nice!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274293#274293
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
The last couple of days I talked with Ben Tucker in Spring, TX (north of metro
Houston) at 936.653.5231. He has three Continental A-65-8 engines for sale.
Two are already built up and the third will be after he sells the first two.
The price for each is $3500.
As you likely know, these are the engines that have onlhy magnetosw for an electric
system-- no starter, regulator or gen./alternator. Ben has taken the engines
apart and replaced whatever was needed to get them into specs, whether bearings,
rings, valves, or whatever. He can provide the details.
I have never met Ben, and he is not a licensed A&P, but he was trained as an A&P
mechanic by the air Corps in 1945, and has worked on engines ever since, rebuilding
many engines, building many experimentals, and rebuilding many commercially
built aircraft. He certainly impressed me with his autheniticity, over
the phone.
I suggest that if you are interested in such an engine and do not yet have one,
to give Ben a call. He can fill you in details. He doesn't do the Internet
or email.
Tim in central TX
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: email for larry williams
Larry, can you email me with your email address
or, if anyone else has it, will they let me know
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: email for larry williams
Larry, can you email me with your email address
or, if anyone else has it, will they let me know
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Larry Williams email
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
lnawms(at)yahoo.com,
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pilot step
I put a nice retractable step on mine, but it is easier to just throw a
leg over than to use the step... but I hope to still be flying when I'm
unable to throw the leg over and then I'll have the step to help me
along. :-)
Ben Charvet
rebuilding the A-65
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tools Nomenclature
Date: Nov 23, 2009
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
This may have appeared earlier, but with many of us retreating from the co
ld weather into our shops, we may need to refresh our knowledge of tools
terminology...
Fred B.
La Crosse, WI
DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching flat met
al bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in the chest and flin
gs your beer across the room, denting the freshly painted project which yo
u had carefully set in the corner where nothing could get to it.
WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere under th
e workbench with the speed of light. Also removes fingerprints and hard ea
rned calluses from fingers in about the time it takes you to say,
=98Oh sh =94 =98
ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in their holes
until you die of old age.
SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.
PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the creation of bl
ood-blisters.
BELT SANDER:An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert minor touch-
up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board princip
le. It transforms human energy into a crooked, unpredictable motion, and
the more you attempt to influence its course, the more dismal your future
becomes.
VICE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to round off bolt heads entirely.
If nothing else is available, they can also be used to transfer intense
welding heat to the palm of your hand.
OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various flammable ob
jects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting the grease inside the
wheel hub out of which you want to remove a bearing race.
TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch wood proj
ectiles for testing wall integrity. (And the inside of my garage can prove
it.)
HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the ground after
you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the jack handle firmly
under the bumper.
BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most shops to cut
good aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that more easily fit into the tra
sh can after you cut on the inside of the line instead of the outside edge
.
TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile strength of
everything you forgot to disconnect.
PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under lids or
for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing oil on your sh
irt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to strip out Phillips scre
w heads.
STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes used to con
vert common slotted screws into non-removable screws and butchering your
palms.
PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or bracket
you needed to remove in order to replace a 50=C2=A2 part.
HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short.
HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is use
d as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent th
e object you are trying to hit.
UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of cardboard ca
rtons delivered to your front door; works particularly well on contents su
ch as seats, liquids in plastic bottles, collector magazines, refund check
s, and rubber or plastic parts. Especially useful for slicing work clothes
, but only while in use.
DAMM-IT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the garage whi
le yelling =98DAMM-IT=99 at the top of your lungs. It is also,
most often, the next tool that you will need.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Covering question - drain grommets
Date: Nov 23, 2009
If you want more of a venturi effect use the seaplane grommets. I think th
ey look cooler too.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: generambo(at)msn.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Date: Sun=2C 22 Nov 2009 10:34:28 -0500
burning holes is fine=2C and I will probably do it=2C but keep in mind that
the shape of the grommets creates a kind of venturi that vents the area.
It might do a better job than a mere hole.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: Saturday=2C November 21=2C 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Thanks Dan=2C thats two votes for just burning drain holes and forgetting t
he grommets. That sounds good to me.
Rick
On Sat=2C Nov 21=2C 2009 at 1:28 PM=2C wrote:
Rick=2C
I am a little ahead of you with the Stewart System. I just took a soldering
iron with a blunt round end (I think about 3/16") and burned right through
. Be careful not to go through to the other side. "Measure twice=2C burn o
nce." I see no reason to use drain grommets.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove=2C IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sat=2C Nov 21=2C 2009 10:54 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems stuff (its g
reat not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed garage). Would like
opinions about installing drain grommets=2C seems to be 3 ways to do it:
1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2" patch
Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock=2C Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad"
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock=2C Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers=2C that smell bad"
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
>www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cti
tle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.
matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:
WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Covering question - drain grommets
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Seaplane grommets on the underside of the horizontal stab or elevator may
have the added benefit of protecting the drain holes from becoming clogged
with dirt/dust/grass/what have you....maybe.... :P
Ryan
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> burning holes is fine, and I will probably do it, but keep in mind that
> the shape of the grommets creates a kind of venturi that vents the area. It
> might do a better job than a mere hole.
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
>
> Thanks Dan, thats two votes for just burning drain holes and forgetting the
> grommets. That sounds good to me.
>
> Rick
>
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM, wrote:
>
>> Rick,
>>
>> I am a little ahead of you with the Stewart System. I just took a
>> soldering iron with a blunt round end (I think about 3/16") and burned right
>> through. Be careful not to go through to the other side. "Measure twice,
>> burn once." I see no reason to use drain grommets.
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:54 am
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
>>
>> Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems stuff (its
>> great not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed garage). Would like
>> opinions about installing drain grommets, seems to be 3 ways to do it:
>>
>> 1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
>> 2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
>> 3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2" patch
>>
>> Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> --
>> Rick Holland
>> Castle Rock, Colorado
>>
>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>>
>> *
>>
>> =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
>> m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
>> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ctitle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Covering question - drain grommets
Date: Nov 23, 2009
I'm not sure that there is any more of a venturi effect from seaplane
grommets. They are shielded on the forward side to prevent water from
entering, but they might not have any more venturi effect than flat
ones, and they look worse.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Dever<mailto:chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
If you want more of a venturi effect use the seaplane grommets. I
think they look cooler too.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: generambo(at)msn.com<mailto:generambo(at)msn.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:34:28 -0500
burning holes is fine, and I will probably do it, but keep in mind
that the shape of the grommets creates a kind of venturi that vents the
area. It might do a better job than a mere hole.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Thanks Dan, thats two votes for just burning drain holes and
forgetting the grommets. That sounds good to me.
Rick
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:28 PM,
> wrote:
Rick,
I am a little ahead of you with the Stewart System. I just took a
soldering iron with a blunt round end (I think about 3/16") and burned
right through. Be careful not to go through to the other side. "Measure
twice, burn once." I see no reason to use drain grommets.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 10:54 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering question - drain grommets
Am having fun covering my tail pieces using the Stuart systems
stuff (its great not having to breath that stinkin MEK in a closed
garage). Would like opinions about installing drain grommets, seems to
be 3 ways to do it:
1 - Just burn holes in the fabric with a soldering iron.
2 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric
3 - Glue drain grommets to the fabric and cover with a glued on 2"
patch
Also did you burn the hole before or after finish paint?
Thanks
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
tribution>
t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
title=http://www.buildersbooks.com/
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
lectric.com
/">www.buildersbooks.com
ebuilthelp.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn
more.<http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID2
4727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Tools Nomenclature
I nigh on to laughed till I cried.
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
Date: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:55
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tools Nomenclature
>
> This may have appeared earlier, but with many of us retreating
> from the cold weather into our shops, we may need to refresh our
> knowledge of tools terminology...
> Fred B.
> La Crosse, WI
>
> DRILL PRESS: A tall upright machine useful for suddenly snatching
> flat metal bar stock out of your hands so that it smacks you in
> the chest and flings your beer across the room, denting the
> freshly painted project which you had carefully set in the corner
> where nothing could get to it.
> WIRE WHEEL: Cleans paint off bolts and then throws them somewhere
> under the workbench with the speed of light. Also removes
> fingerprints and hard earned calluses from fingers in about the
> time it takes you to say, Oh sh
> ELECTRIC HAND DRILL: Normally used for spinning pop rivets in
> their holes until you die of old age.
> SKILL SAW: A portable cutting tool used to make studs too short.
> PLIERS: Used to round off bolt heads. Sometimes used in the
> creation of blood-blisters.
> BELT SANDER:An electric sanding tool commonly used to convert
> minor touch-up jobs into major refinishing jobs.
> HACKSAW: One of a family of cutting tools built on the Ouija board
> principle. It transforms human energy into a crooked,
> unpredictable motion, and the more you attempt to influence its
> course, the more dismal your future becomes.
> VICE-GRIPS: Generally used after pliers to round off bolt heads
> entirely. If nothing else is available, they can also be used to
> transfer intense welding heat to the palm of your hand.
> OXYACETYLENE TORCH: Used almost entirely for lighting various
> flammable objects in your shop on fire. Also handy for igniting
> the grease inside the wheel hub out of which you want to remove a
> bearing race.
> TABLE SAW: A large stationary power tool commonly used to launch
> wood projectiles for testing wall integrity. (And the inside of my
> garage can prove it.)
> HYDRAULIC FLOOR JACK: Used for lowering an automobile to the
> ground after you have installed your new brake shoes, trapping the
> jack handle firmly under the bumper.
> BAND SAW: A large stationary power saw primarily used by most
> shops to cut good aluminum sheet into smaller pieces that more
> easily fit into the trash can after you cut on the inside of the
> line instead of the outside edge.
> TWO-TON ENGINE HOIST: A tool for testing the maximum tensile
> strength of everything you forgot to disconnect.
> PHILLIPS SCREWDRIVER: Normally used to stab the vacuum seals under
> lids or for opening old-style paper-and-tin oil cans and splashing
> oil on your shirt; but can also be used, as the name implies, to
> strip out Phillips screw heads.
> STRAIGHT SCREWDRIVER: A tool for opening paint cans. Sometimes
> used to convert common slotted screws into non-removable screws
> and butchering your palms.
> PRY BAR: A tool used to crumple the metal surrounding that clip or
> bracket you needed to remove in order to replace a 50 part.
> HOSE CUTTER: A tool used to make hoses too short.
> HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer
> nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most
> expensive parts adjacent the object you are trying to hit.
> UTILITY KNIFE: Used to open and slice through the contents of
> cardboard cartons delivered to your front door; works particularly
> well on contents such as seats, liquids in plastic bottles,
> collector magazines, refund checks, and rubber or plastic parts.
> Especially useful for slicing work clothes, but only while in use.
> DAMM-IT TOOL: Any handy tool that you grab and throw across the
> garage while yelling DAMM-IT at the top of your lungs. It is
> also, most often, the next tool that you will need.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Riblett 612 plans needed
From: "hatcherr" <rickhatcher(at)gravesandgraves.com>
Date: Nov 23, 2009
I'm getting set up to build a GN1/Piet wanting to for about 34 years and want to
use the 612 foil but haven't found specs on it. Thanks for any help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274496#274496
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Subject: Re: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
thanks,
Russell
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Tim Willis wrote:
> timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
>
> The last couple of days I talked with Ben Tucker in Spring, TX (north of
> metro Houston) at 936.653.5231. He has three Continental A-65-8 engines for
> sale. Two are already built up and the third will be after he sells the
> first two. The price for each is $3500.
>
> As you likely know, these are the engines that have onlhy magnetosw for an
> electric system-- no starter, regulator or gen./alternator. Ben has taken
> the engines apart and replaced whatever was needed to get them into specs,
> whether bearings, rings, valves, or whatever. He can provide the details.
>
> I have never met Ben, and he is not a licensed A&P, but he was trained as
> an A&P mechanic by the air Corps in 1945, and has worked on engines ever
> since, rebuilding many engines, building many experimentals, and rebuilding
> many commercially built aircraft. He certainly impressed me with his
> autheniticity, over the phone.
>
> I suggest that if you are interested in such an engine and do not yet have
> one, to give Ben a call. He can fill you in details. He doesn't do the
> Internet or email.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Hello,
Do you have access to a CADD program? If so here is a link to a DWG file for the 612 airfoil. http://www.davincitechnologies.com/AirfoilOptimizerStdAirfoils.htm. You can download the file and plot it out. If you don't have access to a cad program let me know and I could load the file and convert it to a PDF file which you could have printed in full size at any Staples outlet or other print shop. Let me know if I can help.
I am also building a GN-1. A project I bought that I am completing.
Jon Coxwell
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274511#274511
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 23, 2009
Hello,
Do you have access to a CADD program? If so here is a link to a DWG file for the 612 airfoil. http://www.davincitechnologies.com/AirfoilOptimizerStdAirfoils.htm. You can download the file and plot it out. If you don't have access to a cad program let me know and I could load the file and convert it to a PDF file which you could have printed in full size at any Staples outlet or other print shop. Let me know if I can help.
I am also building a GN-1. A project I bought that I am completing.
Jon Coxwell
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274512#274512
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution...
There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short
days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support
is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully
it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the
Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there
is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums.
The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit
card, Paypal, or a personal check:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support
the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 24, 2009
coxwelljon wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Do you have access to a CADD program? If so here is a link to a DWG file for
the 612 airfoil.
>
That is the link to the wrong 612 Airfoil. That's what happens when you use the
short names. Airfoil on that site is GA37-612, and for AirCampers it is recommended
to use GA30-612.
I've attached to this message DXF and PDF files I've maid, with correct airfoil.
Use them, or pay for the drawings somebody is selling on this list. That drawing
has full rib details, although spar distance and other details are drawn
for classic Pietenpol, I guess you'll have to draw your own for GN-1.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274594#274594
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ga30u_612_113.dxf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ga30u_612_872.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
Date: Nov 24, 2009
Tim, what a great price! As a side note, I spent $6,000 rebuilding my A
65-8 and I really searched for the best prices. I'm going to assume he had
a lot of the parts already.
Do you mind if I post the ad on the Flybaby site? For anyone looking to use
an A 65 on their project, they should look into these.
Gene
N502R in Rainy Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
>
>
> The last couple of days I talked with Ben Tucker in Spring, TX (north of
> metro Houston) at 936.653.5231. He has three Continental A-65-8 engines
> for sale. Two are already built up and the third will be after he sells
> the first two. The price for each is $3500.
>
> As you likely know, these are the engines that have onlhy magnetosw for an
> electric system-- no starter, regulator or gen./alternator. Ben has taken
> the engines apart and replaced whatever was needed to get them into specs,
> whether bearings, rings, valves, or whatever. He can provide the details.
>
> I have never met Ben, and he is not a licensed A&P, but he was trained as
> an A&P mechanic by the air Corps in 1945, and has worked on engines ever
> since, rebuilding many engines, building many experimentals, and
> rebuilding many commercially built aircraft. He certainly impressed me
> with his autheniticity, over the phone.
>
> I suggest that if you are interested in such an engine and do not yet have
> one, to give Ben a call. He can fill you in details. He doesn't do the
> Internet or email.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:38:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: covering question-drain grommets
Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the Pietenpol a
irfoil you risk creating so much suction that it could start collapsing rib
s. This is especially true if you exceed 70 mph which is why I tend to fly
more slowly than most.
-
Larry
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
Gene,
Go ahead and post there. I would not be surprised if he did not have many, many
parts.
As I mentioned, I do not know the man, but felt reassured enough by his conversation
on another engine that I think he is kosher.
BTW, that engine is a much larger engine for another project altogether-- a PGK-1
Hirondelle. Take a look at that-- google it and check out the Wikapedia and
the Western Aircraft sites for pix. Apparently it cruises at about 130 mph
with 108 hp and maybe 20 mph more with 150-160 hp, as from my new engine. I was
given the fuselage over two years ago by a poor fellow who had lost the plans
and his mind (Alzheimer's), so that he could not recall building it, what it
was, etc. I will have the plans late this week. I will also have an O-320
Lycoming and a metal prop by then. That should be a potent combo. Miles to go,
though, before anything here flies.
I plan to SIT on those pieces until the Piet and I have gone through the needed
transitions for both of us to be together in the air.
Please post none of this except para. 2, my evaluation of his credibility.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
>Sent: Nov 24, 2009 7:26 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
>
>
>Tim, what a great price! As a side note, I spent $6,000 rebuilding my A
>65-8 and I really searched for the best prices. I'm going to assume he had
>a lot of the parts already.
>Do you mind if I post the ad on the Flybaby site? For anyone looking to use
>an A 65 on their project, they should look into these.
>Gene
>N502R in Rainy Tennessee
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
>To: "matronics piet site"
>Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 10:53 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Three Continental A-65 engines for sale
>
>
>>
>>
>> The last couple of days I talked with Ben Tucker in Spring, TX (north of
>> metro Houston) at 936.653.5231. He has three Continental A-65-8 engines
>> for sale. Two are already built up and the third will be after he sells
>> the first two. The price for each is $3500.
>>
>> As you likely know, these are the engines that have onlhy magnetosw for an
>> electric system-- no starter, regulator or gen./alternator. Ben has taken
>> the engines apart and replaced whatever was needed to get them into specs,
>> whether bearings, rings, valves, or whatever. He can provide the details.
>>
>> I have never met Ben, and he is not a licensed A&P, but he was trained as
>> an A&P mechanic by the air Corps in 1945, and has worked on engines ever
>> since, rebuilding many engines, building many experimentals, and
>> rebuilding many commercially built aircraft. He certainly impressed me
>> with his autheniticity, over the phone.
>>
>> I suggest that if you are interested in such an engine and do not yet have
>> one, to give Ben a call. He can fill you in details. He doesn't do the
>> Internet or email.
>>
>> Tim in central TX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>07:38:00
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: covering question-drain grommets
Hey, you tol' me it's because you're cheap and don't want to burn the
extra fuel it takes to go 68 mph!
>Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the
>Pietenpol airfoil you risk creating so much suction that it could
>start collapsing ribs. This is especially true if you exceed 70 mph
>which is why I tend to fly more slowly than most.
>
>Larry
>
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: covering question-drain grommets
you have got to be kidding
________________________________
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 10:17:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the Pietenpol airfoil
you risk creating so much suction that it could start collapsing ribs. This
is especially true if you exceed 70 mph which is why I tend to fly more slowly
than most.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: covering question-drain grommets
Date: Nov 24, 2009
of course, if you go even faster, the suction will actually make you go
backwards . . .
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams<mailto:lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
To: Pietlist
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the
Pietenpol airfoil you risk creating so much suction that it could start
collapsing ribs. This is especially true if you exceed 70 mph which is
why I tend to fly more slowly than most.
Larry
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: covering question-drain grommets
Date: Nov 24, 2009
From: wizzard187(at)aol.com
I know one guy that used seaplane grommets and it sank on the first landi
ng
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
of course, if you go even faster, the suction will actually make you go ba
ckwards . . .
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the Pietenpol
airfoil you risk creating so much suction that it could start collapsing
ribs. This is especially true if you exceed 70 mph which is why I tend to
fly more slowly than most.
Larry
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
itle=http://www.buildersbooks.com/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com"
>www.buildersbooks.com
ref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/cti
tle=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Pietenpol-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
========================
===========
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
-= by:
-= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com
-= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com
-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
-
-= List Contribution Web Site:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
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===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed
If you search the archives you'll find an xls spreadsheet with the 612 co-ordinates.
You can loft the plot points directly onto your rib jig.
You don't really need a drawing.
If you can't find it, I can email the file to you.
Regards,
JohnW
Perth Western australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Sent: Tuesday, 24 November, 2009 5:16:32 PM GMT +08:00 Beijing / Chongqing / Hong
Kong / Urumqi
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett 612 plans needed
coxwelljon wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Do you have access to a CADD program? If so here is a link to a DWG file for
the 612 airfoil.
>
That is the link to the wrong 612 Airfoil. That's what happens when you use the
short names. Airfoil on that site is GA37-612, and for AirCampers it is recommended
to use GA30-612.
I've attached to this message DXF and PDF files I've maid, with correct airfoil.
Use them, or pay for the drawings somebody is selling on this list. That drawing
has full rib details, although spar distance and other details are drawn
for classic Pietenpol, I guess you'll have to draw your own for GN-1.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274594#274594
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ga30u_612_113.dxf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ga30u_612_872.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Seaplane grommets
All right, let's get serious about homebuilding and grommets...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvOTsi3i64
And another Piet vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?vVQ79TVDE4
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Seven steps to becoming a proper Pietenpol passenger-
Step #1 - Left foot on tire, one hand on each cabane........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Step #2 Head and shoulders go all the way through the cockpit as you
step in with your right foot.........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Step#3 - Put on your seatbelt, goggles and earplugs.........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Step #4 - Relax and get ready to enjoy your flight...........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Step #5 - Enjoy the pretty, rural towns from the air...........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Step #6 - After landing, thank your pilot for a nice
flight.............
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Step #7 - Tell the world what you think of Pietenpols!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Rub it in Greg... rub it in.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274786#274786
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Greg,
Very nice tutorial on getting in a Piet. Arlene and I enjoyed it; but the only
thing missing is the flexibility needed to get that right leg in.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
Nov 25, 2009 09:34:16 AM, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
Seven steps to becoming a proper Pietenpol passenger-
Step #1 - Left foot on tire, one hand on each cabane........
Step #2 Head and shoulders go all the way through the cockpit as you step in with
your right foot.........
Step#3 - Put on your seatbelt, goggles and earplugs.........
Step #4 - Relax and get ready to enjoy your flight...........
Step #5 - Enjoy the pretty, rural towns from the air...........
Step #6 - After landing, thank your pilot for a nice flight.............
Step #7 - Tell the world what you think of Pietenpols!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Greg,
I'm crushed! You didn't smile at me like that..
..but, then, I'm not quite so purtee.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Seven steps to becoming a proper Pietenpol passenger-
Step #1 - Left foot on tire, one hand on each cabane........
_____
Step #2 Head and shoulders go all the way through the cockpit as you step in
with your right foot.........
_____
Step#3 - Put on your seatbelt, goggles and earplugs.........
_____
Step #4 - Relax and get ready to enjoy your flight...........
_____
Step #5 - Enjoy the pretty, rural towns from the air...........
_____
Step #6 - After landing, thank your pilot for a nice flight.............
_____
Step #7 - Tell the world what you think of Pietenpols!
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 25, 2009
Hi Gary,
I'll smile when your legs look as nice.........
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol
passenger
Greg,
I'm crushed! You didn't smile at me like that..
..but, then, I'm not quite so purtee.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
He looks like he's ready to shoot the red Baron!!!=0Ado=C2- not archive
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Gary Boothe <gbooth
e5(at)comcast.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, November 25
, 2009 5:01:19 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pie
tenpol passenger=0A=0A=0AGreg,=0A=C2-=0AI=99m crushed! You didn
=99t smile at me like that.=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A.but,
then, I=99m not quite so purtee=0A=C2-=0AHappy Thanksgivin
g,=0AGary Boothe=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted
=0ATail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear=0A(15 ribs down)=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matroni
cs.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcar
dinal=0ASent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:17 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@mat
ronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol pass
enger=0A=C2-=0A=0A=C2-=0ASeven steps to becoming a proper Pietenpol pas
senger-=0A>=C2-=0A>Step #1 - Left foot on tire, one hand on each cabane..
......=0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>Ste
p #2 Head and shoulders go all the way through the cockpit as you step in w
ith your right foot.........=0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>
=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>Step#3 - Put on your seatbelt, goggles and ea
rplugs......... =0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2
-=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>Step #4 - Relax and get ready to enjoy your flig
ht........... =0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2
-=0A>=C2-=0A>Step #5 - Enjoy the pretty, rural towns from the air......
..... =0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2
-=0A>Step #6 - After landing, thank your pilot for a nice flight.........
.... =0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2
-=0A>Step #7 - Tell the world what you think of Pietenpols! =0A>=0A______
__________________________=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 25, 2009
He's thinking, ".I could've offered a ride to a pretty, young, 110 lb
sweetheart, instead of this 195 lb old guy."
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of H RULE
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
He looks like he's ready to shoot the red Baron!!!
do not archive
_____
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Wed, November 25, 2009 5:01:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Greg,
I'm crushed! You didn't smile at me like that..
..but, then, I'm not quite so purtee.
Happy Thanksgiving,
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fw: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Seven steps to becoming a proper Pietenpol passenger-
Step #1 - Left foot on tire, one hand on each cabane........
_____
Step #2 Head and shoulders go all the way through the cockpit as you step in
with your right foot.........
_____
Step#3 - Put on your seatbelt, goggles and earplugs.........
_____
Step #4 - Relax and get ready to enjoy your flight...........
_____
Step #5 - Enjoy the pretty, rural towns from the air...........
_____
Step #6 - After landing, thank your pilot for a nice flight.............
_____
Step #7 - Tell the world what you think of Pietenpols!
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: What Are You Thankful For...?
Dear Listers,
Here in the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many
of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends to share in generous
feasts of plenty and giving thanks for many blessings that have been bestowed
upon us.
Many Listers have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are
for the Email Lists and Forums here on the Matronics servers and for all of the
assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists.
One of my favorite comments is when someone writes to me and says something like,
"Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!".
That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists.
Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning
to check my List email!!
Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for
their continued operation and upgrade?
The List Contribution Site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your kind consideration,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Fw: [flybabylist] Engine avail (from craigslist)
Date: Nov 26, 2009
FYI from the flybaby Yahoo site.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: matt
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:31 AM
Subject: [flybabylist] Engine avail (from craigslist)
Continental A65 Aircraft Engine - $950 (Woodland, WA)
Date: 2009-11-24, 5:13PM PST
Reply to: sale-tfadb-1481226773(at)craigslist.org [Errors when replying to
ads?]
Continental A-65 Aircraft Engine - $950 OBO - Cash ONLY!
This airplane engine (as you can see from the photos) has the keyed,
tapered crankshaft meant to be used with a wood prop. An adapter was
made to convert from this to the flanged style for a metal prop, but
they are apparently a bit difficult to find.
The engine is complete except for the following:
1. Intake spider
2. Carburetor
3. Magneto's
4. Oil Tank
5. Exhaust System
The engine has been (and remains) completely disassembled. I took the
components to Premier Aircraft in Troutdale, OR and had them inspected
and have the "yellow tags" and other documents from that. The engine
also comes with the basic rebuilt kit which includes a number of new
parts that can be used during the reassembly and a new reprint of the
Continental Maintenance and Overhaul Manual.
The outcome of Premier's analysis was that all the parts are serviceable
(thus the yellow tags. However, one cylinder has some minor pitting
which can be repaired in one of two ways (it would work as it is, but
since it's apart, I would fix it if I planned to use the engine):
1. Bore the cylinder oversize, chrome it then honing it to original
spec's
2. Boring and honing the cylinder oversize and installing the
appropriate oversize piston rings-I am told this also requires that the
other cylinders be bored and oversize rings installed in those, too.
I am not an A&P Mechanic, so I don't honestly know with certainty which
would be preferable...I WAS told by Premier that either would work or
that the cylinder could be left as it is since it meets the original
spec's and is yellow-tagged as such.
I will only sell the engine complete rather than as separate parts
because I would rather not have to try to determine individual part
values. Again I AM NOT AN A&P and am NOT attempting to represent this as
anything more than a used engine, parts of which have been inspected and
pronounced to be serviceable by Premier and, I presume, could be
reassembled and made functional at minimal expense.
If you have questions please reply to this ad with your e-mail address,
name and/or phone and I will contact you ASAP. I have "scans" of the
yellow tags, the engine nameplate, manual cover and other documents I
got from Premier verifying what I paid for the inspections.I will be
happy to send those to you if you want to verify the documents.
I would also prefer to sell this to someone locally who is willing to
pick it up since I think it's best you see what you're buying first. I
will say this one final time: I am NOT an A&P, do not represent myself
as one and am NOT interested in hearing what I DON'T know about this
engine. It is a used engine and carries with it all the potential
problems associated with that---and is being sold "AS IS". I would like
to sell the engine, that's all. Anyone who plays with airplanes knows
there is no "sure thing" when it comes to mechanical issues. Even new
ones break.
I am not listing a phone as I am in and out a lot, but do check my mail
frequently, so I think that's the best method of contacting me.
* Location: Woodland, WA
* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial
interests
image 1481226773-0 image 1481226773-1
image 1481226773-2 image 1481226773-3
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11/24/09 19:37:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: covering question-drain grommets
Date: Nov 26, 2009
I dought that it could create that much suction. Remember there are many ot
her holes in the wing not creating much suction. Root rib comes to mind.
We had them on the Tri-Pacer and the fabric did not even concave at all. a
nd that was at 125mph. And those ribs were not any stronger than the Piets
.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
Date: Tue=2C 24 Nov 2009 07:17:57 -0800
From: lnawms(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the Pietenpol a
irfoil you risk creating so much suction that it could start collapsing rib
s. This is especially true if you exceed 70 mph which is why I tend to fly
more slowly than most.
Larry
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:
WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
From: "yocum137" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Greg
What town is that? I went to high school in Stillwater, MN so I'm sort of a Mud
Duck...
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274965#274965
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: covering question-drain grommets
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Unless you have absolutely sealed off the wing panel, full ply covered
inner end, etc,
then there will be more than enough air entering the panel to take up
the space of
the air sucked out. :-)
Maybe you should use gronicles instead.
Clif
"A person learns to skate by staggering about and making a
fool of himself; indeed, he progresses in all things by
making a fool of himself."
-- George Bernard Shaw, playwright
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
I dought that it could create that much suction. Remember there are
many other holes in the wing not creating much suction. Root rib comes
to mind. We had them on the Tri-Pacer and the fabric did not even
concave at all. and that was at 125mph. And those ribs were not any
stronger than the Piets.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: covering question-drain grommets
Date: Nov 26, 2009
At what point did this go from being a very strong leg-pulling to being
taken seriously??
(except my original post where I suggest that there may be a small
incentive to using grommets rather than merely punching holes)
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Dever<mailto:chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
I dought that it could create that much suction. Remember there are
many other holes in the wing not creating much suction. Root rib comes
to mind. We had them on the Tri-Pacer and the fabric did not even
concave at all. and that was at 125mph. And those ribs were not any
stronger than the Piets.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:17:57 -0800
From: lnawms(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: covering question-drain grommets
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Just remember that if you use too many seaplane grommets on the
Pietenpol airfoil you risk creating so much suction that it could start
collapsing ribs. This is especially true if you exceed 70 mph which is
why I tend to fly more slowly than most.
Larry
lectric.com
/">www.buildersbooks.com
ebuilthelp.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn
more.<http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID2
4727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2>
www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/>
www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/>
www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 26, 2009
Hi Dan,
It is the town of Northfield, MN. A slightly higher resolution photo is
attached. It is only a few miles from Stanton where NX18235 is based and is
a nice 15 - 20 minute ride for first time passengers.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "yocum137" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
>
> Greg
> What town is that? I went to high school in Stillwater, MN so I'm sort of
> a Mud Duck...
>
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274965#274965
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
From: "yocum137" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Ah that must Carlton's campus - I looked at the google map of St. Olaf and couldn't
see a lake any where around.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275045#275045
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Greg's C's photo of Northfield, MN now my background
Mike,
Great photo. What's the red thing in front of you? Is that a wool
cockpit cover (a "tonneau" as the Brits would say)?
Jeff
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Seaplane grommets
I have also heard that if you turn the seaplane grommets backwards that the
y will inflate the airfoil and give you a close approximation of a 612. I a
m thinking of trying this on my Piet since it will be easier than building
a whole new wing. Of course all that will have to wait until I finish putti
ng the nosewheel on.
-
BTW does anyone know if it's OK to use lower pressure in a Tri-Pacer nose s
trut since my plane weighs significantly less than the donor plane??
-
Thanks-
-
Larry
-
ps. The new head netted me a shorter TO roll, better climb and about 4 mph
better cruise speed.....tests are ongoing re fuel consumption, effects of t
emp, different props, etc. Interestingly there is no difference in top RPM?
?=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Not far from where my brother lives in Faribault - nice!
Kip Gardner
On Nov 27, 2009, at 12:10 AM, gcardinal wrote:
> Hi Dan,
>
> It is the town of Northfield, MN. A slightly higher resolution
> photo is attached. It is only a few miles from Stanton where
> NX18235 is based and is a nice 15 - 20 minute ride for first time
> passengers.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "yocum137" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:51 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
>
>
>>
>> Greg
>> What town is that? I went to high school in Stillwater, MN so I'm
>> sort of a Mud Duck...
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=274965#274965
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Yes, it is Carlton - the chapel building gives it away. Also, St.
Olaf now has an absolutely humongous wind turbine at the edge of the
campus. I was tin Northfield/Cannon Falls visiting a customer in
late October.
Kip Gardner
On Nov 27, 2009, at 8:52 AM, yocum137 wrote:
>
> Ah that must Carlton's campus - I looked at the google map of St.
> Olaf and couldn't see a lake any where around.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275045#275045
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seaplane grommets
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: "Bill Church" <eng(at)canadianrogers.com>
A couple of notes:
Proper location of the reverse-direction seaplane grommets is critical
for proper 612 approximation.
And, regarding the Tri-Pacer nose strut pressure, it depends whether
your canopy is a bubble style, or a slider (obviously).
By the way, Tri-Champ nose strut can not be used on a Piet.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seaplane grommets
I have also heard that if you turn the seaplane grommets backwards that
they will inflate the airfoil and give you a close approximation of a
612. I am thinking of trying this on my Piet since it will be easier
than building a whole new wing. Of course all that will have to wait
until I finish putting the nosewheel on.
BTW does anyone know if it's OK to use lower pressure in a Tri-Pacer
nose strut since my plane weighs significantly less than the donor
plane??
Thanks-
Larry
ps. The new head netted me a shorter TO roll, better climb and about 4
mph better cruise speed.....tests are ongoing re fuel consumption,
effects of temp, different props, etc. Interestingly there is no
difference in top RPM??
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
Date: Nov 27, 2009
That wind turbine would be this one.....
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip and Beth Gardner" <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How to be a proper Pietenpol passenger
>
>
> Yes, it is Carlton - the chapel building gives it away. Also, St. Olaf
> now has an absolutely humongous wind turbine at the edge of the campus.
> I was tin Northfield/Cannon Falls visiting a customer in late October.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
> On Nov 27, 2009, at 8:52 AM, yocum137 wrote:
>
>>
>> Ah that must Carlton's campus - I looked at the google map of St. Olaf
>> and couldn't see a lake any where around.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275045#275045
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2009
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: windmills and smoke stacks
Among other comments, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> I noticed that the only time height in an airplane bothers me is when I have
> something to reference like a wind turbine, tall smoke stack or tv tower.
I once read a trip report by someone flying around Mexico in a Piper
Colt. They spent a couple of hours with a cloud layer 500 feet under
them. Then they flew off the edge of the clouds, and the next thing
below was the ocean, 12,000 feet straight down! I would have needed a
towel and some new shorts.
Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: <bike.mike(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: windmills and smoke stacks
Date: Nov 27, 2009
The first flying date I had with my wife-to-be was lunch at the 1500' msl
airport on Catalina island, 26 miles ssw of Los Angeles. The airport was
built by leveling the top of a hill that drops into the ocean on the east
end...really drops. When we took off, I held the 172 close to the runway
until the end of the pavement slid out from under us. The windows almost
caved in when she sucked in her breath, which didn't help my already
elevated pulse rate.
(She still married me and we had 22 good years together.)
Taking off from Grand Canyon airport to the north provides an even bigger
heart thump...you don't even have to be at low level.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Owen Davies" <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: windmills and smoke stacks
>
> Among other comments, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> Corporation] wrote:
>> I noticed that the only time height in an airplane bothers me is when I
>> have
>> something to reference like a wind turbine, tall smoke stack or tv tower.
> I once read a trip report by someone flying around Mexico in a Piper Colt.
> They spent a couple of hours with a cloud layer 500 feet under them. Then
> they flew off the edge of the clouds, and the next thing below was the
> ocean, 12,000 feet straight down! I would have needed a towel and some new
> shorts.
>
> Owen
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 27, 2009
Sorry for the delay, day job stuff turned 1 day I've promised into 1 week.
Peter, please check all the dimensions on the attached drawings for the front spar,
before I draw the rear spar. Only thing that is left unclear to me is the
size of the plywood on the upper side of the center section - does it cover it
completely?
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275115#275115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/frontspar_212.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/frontspar_155.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 28, 2009
Ivan,
Very good! The only thing I can say is that at the root of the spar, the
front ply is 7 1/2" not 9 1/2", although it would not make a lot of
difference (make sure you varnish the inside before gluing the ply in
place!).
The center section is constructed in exactly the same way as the main spars,
full 1/8" ply one side, partly covered on the other.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
Sorry for the delay, day job stuff turned 1 day I've promised into 1 week.
Peter, please check all the dimensions on the attached drawings for the
front spar, before I draw the rear spar. Only thing that is left unclear to
me is the size of the plywood on the upper side of the center section - does
it cover it completely?
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275115#275115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/frontspar_212.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/frontspar_155.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: No "Black Friday" For List Fund Raiser...
Even though the number of List subscriptions and List posts are up significantly
this year compared to last year, support during this year's List Fund Raiser
has been woefully lagging from last year. There are only a couple more days
left in November and the end of the Fund Raiser is quickly approaching.
I have always preferred a non-commercial List experience as many, many members
have also expressed that they do as well. However, if the yearly fund raiser
cannot generate sufficient funds to keep the bills paid on the List service expenses,
I will have to look into some sort of advertising. Please don't let that
happen!
Your personal contribution of $20 or $30 goes a long ways to keeping the operation
a float. The lunch combo at Carl's Jr costs nearly $10 these days. Isn't
the List worth at least as much as a couple of burgers?
Please make sure your name is on this year's List of Contributors published in
December. The Contribution site is secure, quick, and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you in advance for your support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 28, 2009
OK, Peter, I've got it.
I hope I'll draw the rear spar as soon as I get some time. My plans arrived last
week, I've bought a set of Grega plans from James Thursby (Thank's to Matronics
list for finding the available set), and now I'm in "finding wood" phase.
There is no "Aircraft spruce" or shops like that here where I live, as a meter
of fact the spruce doesn't grow on this continent, I have to actually call and
go search the lumberyards (go ahead, laugh). Last but not least - I have to
draw this modification for Riblett I'm planing to build... Busy time ahead.
One more question: This additional width of the spars also needs to make a room
for the spar in the rib wider, but in which direction? On both sides symmetrical
to the center of the spar, or on the inside of the wing, further from the
leading and trailing edge?
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275198#275198
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Nov 28, 2009
Ivan,
My Pietenpol plans show the front spar as 1 1/8" and the rear at 1". These
are the same dimensions as the UK plans (7/8" caps with 2 x 1/8" ply for the
front and 3/4" caps with 2 x 1/8" ply on the rear).
I made my ribs first and followed Bernard's plans. I didn't change anything
to get them to fit the box spars.
Cheers
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ivan.todorovic
Sent: Saturday, 28 November 2009 9:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
OK, Peter, I've got it.
I hope I'll draw the rear spar as soon as I get some time. My plans arrived
last week, I've bought a set of Grega plans from James Thursby (Thank's to
Matronics list for finding the available set), and now I'm in "finding wood"
phase. There is no "Aircraft spruce" or shops like that here where I live,
as a meter of fact the spruce doesn't grow on this continent, I have to
actually call and go search the lumberyards (go ahead, laugh). Last but not
least - I have to draw this modification for Riblett I'm planing to build...
Busy time ahead.
One more question: This additional width of the spars also needs to make a
room for the spar in the rib wider, but in which direction? On both sides
symmetrical to the center of the spar, or on the inside of the wing, further
from the leading and trailing edge?
Regards,
Ivan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275198#275198
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2009
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Ivan,
At least with the actual Pietenpol plans, when dealing with ribs and
different spar widths (original 1" routed, 3/4" solid, etc) you want to
maintain the 27 3/4" dimension (if my memory is correct) between the front
and rear spar, as this corresponds to the cabane struts coming off the
fuselage.
Or you could think of it as the rear face of the front spar and the front
face of the rear spar being immovable, as constants. If you are going to
increase or decrease spar width you would "move" the front face of the front
spar, or the rear face of the rear spar and adjust your ribs accordingly.
Again, this is with the Pietenpol plans; your mileage may vary with the
Grega Plans.
Ryan
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:51 AM, ivan.todorovic wrote:
> s>
>
> OK, Peter, I've got it.
>
> I hope I'll draw the rear spar as soon as I get some time. My plans arrived
> last week, I've bought a set of Grega plans from James Thursby (Thank's to
> Matronics list for finding the available set), and now I'm in "finding wood"
> phase. There is no "Aircraft spruce" or shops like that here where I live,
> as a meter of fact the spruce doesn't grow on this continent, I have to
> actually call and go search the lumberyards (go ahead, laugh). Last but not
> least - I have to draw this modification for Riblett I'm planing to build...
> Busy time ahead.
>
> One more question: This additional width of the spars also needs to make a
> room for the spar in the rib wider, but in which direction? On both sides
> symmetrical to the center of the spar, or on the inside of the wing, further
> from the leading and trailing edge?
>
> Regards,
> Ivan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275198#275198
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 28, 2009
Ryan,
Your second option seems logical to me. Luckily, Peter has the original box-spar
plans in his possession, we will see what the designer of Piet box-spar thinks
about that detail.
Ivan
[quote="Ryan Mueller"]Ivan,
At least with the actual Pietenpol plans, when dealing with ribs and different
spar widths (original 1" routed, 3/4" solid, etc) you want to maintain the 27
3/4" dimension (if my memory is correct) between the front and rear spar, as this
corresponds to the cabane struts coming off the fuselage.
Or you could think of it as the rear face of the front spar and the front face
of the rear spar being immovable, as constants. If you are going to increase or
decrease spar width you would "move" the front face of the front spar, or the
rear face of the rear spar and adjust your ribs accordingly. Again, this is
with the Pietenpol plans; your mileage may vary with the Grega Plans.
Ryan
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:51 AM, ivan.todorovic wrote:
>
>
> OK, Peter, I've got it.
>
> I hope I'll draw the rear spar as soon as I get some time. My plans arrived
last week, I've bought a set of Grega plans from James Thursby (Thank's to Matronics
list for finding the available set), and now I'm in "finding wood" phase.
There is no "Aircraft spruce" or shops like that here where I live, as a meter
of fact the spruce doesn't grow on this continent, I have to actually call
and go search the lumberyards (go ahead, laugh). Last but not least - I have
to draw this modification for Riblett I'm planing to build... Busy time ahead.
>
> One more question: This additional width of the spars also needs to make a room
for the spar in the rib wider, but in which direction? On both sides symmetrical
to the center of the spar, or on the inside of the wing, further from the
leading and trailing edge?
>
>
> Regards,
> Ivan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275198#275198 (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275198#275198)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> le, List Admin.
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275202#275202
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Just Two More Days Left; Fund Raiser Behind By 12%...
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means at least two things. For better or worse, its
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
From: "wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Off-Topic - Video For the Ohio Pieters - Ralph Charles
Good morning! It's been kinda slow on the list the last two days. I
hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving holiday weekend.
I got an email from a friend of mine the other day about a video from
Ohio Bush Planes. Greg Swingle flies a Rans S-7(?) with another guy in
a Husky to this little strip where they get a history lesson on Ralph
Charles, Ohio aviation legend. The coolest part of the video is the
organ that Ralph built by hand. 1580 pipes, drums, etc. Very cool!
Anyway, I thought the video would be interesting to everyone, especially
those of you in Ohio. To tie it all together, Ralph built sometihng
like 11 airplanes in his lifetime. This is the first time I'd ever
heard of him, but he sounds like a very impressive man.
Here's the link: http://vimeo.com/7741168
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Off-Topic - Video For the Ohio Pieters - Ralph Charles
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
That is waaay too cool. Wow!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275525#275525
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Attached are three drawings of the built box-spar for Piet Air Camper. Many Thanks
to Peter W. Johnson for all the info from the original (UK designed) plans.
Grega builders may expect their version in the future, together with adequate Riblett
rib-jig plans (31" GN-1 spar distance, different leading edge construction
etc.). Not to bother Pietenpol builders with things not related to them, I've
formed Grega GN-1 group on Yahoo,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GregaGN1/
and all things Grega-specific and non-Pietenpol related I will post there. Feel
free to join.
Regards,
Ivan Todorovic
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275554#275554
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar_146.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar3_612.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar2_127.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/boxspar1_907.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Subject: stick input forces at reat and at full load
Does anyone have any information or an idea of how much stick input forces
is required to affect change in about the flight attitude, bank and
directional axis of flight?
Additionally are input forces and output forces equal between the stick and
surface or is there a mechanical advantage derived from the control horn
geometry at the stick and control surface.
I figured with a slow and crummy day this could be a good question to ask?
How much push pull and lateral strength is required to manipulate the
controls to the fullest extent of their range of motion at zero load,taxi,
cruise load, full speed and at landing?
Having never flown a Piet I was curious to learn about the work loads at
all the different flight, weight and wind configurations.
I am not even looking for exact numbers just more of a SWAG amount of
what you think those values are, not trying to make this difficult or an
exercise in futility just looking for some arm chair data.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
Date: Dec 01, 2009
Hi John, if you can apply a maximum force of say 200 pounds to the stick
and the leverage is say 4:1 then the maximum load at the attachment
points would be around 800 pounds. The leverage is determined by the
distance from the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the
length from the control cable conection to the pivot. That should get
you a rough idea of the loads involved.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: stick input forces at reat and at full load
Does anyone have any information or an idea of how much stick input
forces is required to affect change in about the flight attitude, bank
and directional axis of flight?
Additionally are input forces and output forces equal between the
stick and surface or is there a mechanical advantage derived from the
control horn geometry at the stick and control surface.
I figured with a slow and crummy day this could be a good question to
ask?
How much push pull and lateral strength is required to manipulate the
controls to the fullest extent of their range of motion at zero
load,taxi, cruise load, full speed and at landing?
Having never flown a Piet I was curious to learn about the work loads
at all the different flight, weight and wind configurations.
I am not even looking for exact numbers just more of a SWAG amount of
what you think those values are, not trying to make this difficult or an
exercise in futility just looking for some arm chair data.
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Subject: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2009
Subject: Re: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: Robert Ray <rray032003(at)gmail.com>
Captain to engine room, Scotty warp speed, AH! CAPTAIN
I can't do that the lithium crystals are melting down!
There's relays SMOKING! Captain to Scotty WARP speed
NOW!
This was so cool, I didn't think you would however find
relays in a Star Ship but who knows.
Russell
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> wrote:
> I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at
> an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed
> that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of
> course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve "trek" D
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Nov 30, 2009
[quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined by the distance from
the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the length from the control
cable connection to the pivot. That should get you a rough idea of the
loads involved.
Regards Mike T.
> ---
I think what John is asking and the question I would ask is "how much stick force
does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1 in the various phases of
flight? Is it a 2 finger chore or do I need some gym work before my first flight?
Another related question - Does anyone know the proper tension for the control
cables to the elevator and to the ailerons. I have adjusted the routing or my
elevator cables so they do not rest on the stabilizer with the elevator in the
full down position and they are more equal in tension throughout the travel
range but I don't know how much tension to adjust into them.
--------
Jon Coxwell
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2009
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: OT Spock and his E-6B
Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days of
Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not like
they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves in the
middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in them.
________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at an
instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed that
Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of course
you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
Blue Skies,
Steve "trek" D
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
Date: Dec 01, 2009
I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on
NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron
control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also.
Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly.
Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove
slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
>
>
> [quote="zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ"]The leverage is determined by the distance
> from the middle of the hand grip to the pivot, divided by the length from
> the control cable connection to the pivot. That should get you a rough
> idea of the loads involved.
> Regards Mike T.
>
>> ---
>
>
> I think what John is asking and the question I would ask is "how much
> stick force does it take to fly a Piet and in my case a GN-1 in the
> various phases of flight? Is it a 2 finger chore or do I need some gym
> work before my first flight?
>
> Another related question - Does anyone know the proper tension for the
> control cables to the elevator and to the ailerons. I have adjusted the
> routing or my elevator cables so they do not rest on the stabilizer with
> the elevator in the full down position and they are more equal in tension
> throughout the travel range but I don't know how much tension to adjust
> into them.
>
> --------
> Jon Coxwell
> Recycle and preserve the planet
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275590#275590
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
From: "vman1922" <kkamp72(at)comcast.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2009
One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the term 1,2, and 3 or
was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and rudder force
being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship was considered an
ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am sure. He had a device
he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA article. Think
it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you and your project sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 01, 2009
Subject: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
Quarryville, Groff & Groff a great place for poplar that's where I got all
of mine, even the 16 foot spar material. That's great to hear someone so
close. I typically work on it Saturday and Sundays but lets set up a time and
date. You and every other piet builder (and sometime RV builder, okay any
airplane builder) is always welcome in my shop.
my cell is 215-208-8309
call me, I get few visitors but enjoy visiting other builders. I am home
today but work in Philadelphia area so I don't usually get home till around
7:00 PM or later but I am certain we can set something up. Just let me know
when.
I got a fuse framed and supported, wings built and tail feathers so I can
and am more than willing to answer any questions you may have along the way,
all you need do is ask. You may want to send your contact info so I can
add it into my address book.
Thanks
John
In a message dated 12/1/2009 10:33:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kkamp72(at)comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "vman1922"
One time read an article by a test pilot. He mentioned the term 1,2, and
3 or was it five. Aileron force being 1, elevator force being two and
rudder force being three (maybe five) times as great. this relationship was
considered an ideal harmonization of controls - somewhat subjective I am
sure. He had a device he put on the stick to measure the force. It was an EAA
article. Think it was flight evaluation on an RV aircraft.
So this probably does not answer the question but might be good for
thought/discussion.
John, I am south of Lancaster (Qarryville). May I visit you and your
project sometime???
I am new to list and have started working on ribs.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275603#275603
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2009
Subject: Re: OT Spock and his E-6B
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Actually guys those are Dilithium crystals.
rick
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:09 AM, H RULE wrote:
> Most use the calculator in their phone these days but then back in the days
> of Star Trek ,(the first one)they didn't even have cell phones,at least not
> like they are today.They were huge things that could stand up by them selves
> in the middle of the table and they certainly didn't have calculators in
> them.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
>
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, November 30, 2009 10:46:54 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: OT Spock and his E-6B
>
> I was watching the old Star Trek with my grandson and noticed Spock look at
> an instrument and say how long the lithium crystals would last. I was amazed
> that Jeppeson would still be making E-6Bs that far into the future. But of
> course you can use them to figure out how long your fuel will last.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve "trek" D
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Slow List.....
Date: Dec 01, 2009
While we are all sitting around thinking of something to post........
Check out http://skybachs.daportfolio.com/ for some amazing aircraft
photos.
Best of all, Rob Bach is one of us. He is a Pietenpol builder and took
part in the Brodhead to Oshkosh flight.
Very nice, Rob!
Greg C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fuselage bottom gussets
Date: Dec 01, 2009
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I
got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply,
are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4"
?
Thanks,
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: stick input forces at reat and at full load
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Dec 01, 2009
gcardinal(at)comcast.net wrote:
> I don't have exact numbers for control forces but I can say that pitch on
> NX18235 can be controlled with a light fingertip touch in cruise. Aileron
> control requires a bit more effort. Rudder is very light also.
> Slowing down for landing lightens the ailerons significantly.
>
> Control cables shouldn't be tightened any more than necessary to remove
> slack. Too much tension will cause unwanted friction.
>
> Greg C.
>
> ---
Thanks Greg,
That is helpful. I have made some aluminum blocks with 1 1/4" sheaves to replace
the hardwood guide blocks that were installed on my project. The elevator
controls seemed heavy when I rigged the cables. The cable changes direction about
15 deg. now but runs nice and smooth with little friction. I did not want
to put too much stress on the elevator control horns but have enough tension
to avoid flutter. Maybe I am being too concerned.
--------
Jon Coxwell
GN-1 Builder
Recycle and preserve the planet
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275682#275682
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 12/01/09
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Vi Kapler 1033 Forest Hills Dr SW Rochester, MN 55902-2365 (507) 288-3322
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Dallas wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Looking for elevator and rudder hinges for Piet.
> Any leads greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Dallas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Of possible interest: Air & Space article on automotive
vs. aircraft engines
Article title: POWER STRUGGLE: Why car engines can't fly
Article source: Air & Space Smithsonian magazine, Jan. 1997
Author: Don Sherman
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuselage bottom gussets
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
No
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I got
> several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are the
> gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: stick input forces at rest and at full load
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I was amazed at how nice the control forces are in flight.
While repairing/rebuilding 41CC and having never flown it
or any other Piet before, the controls seemed draggy and
noisy when I exercised them on the ground and tuned up the
cable tensions. In flight, that all seems to disappear and
the controls are very nice. Elevators are quite sensitive
(in my opinion); and especially on the ground they are a
night-and-day change from, say, Cessnas; ailerons not so
much but still very smooth.
Rudder is nice too, but I have a rudder bar and it will
never be as sensitive to control as individual pedals will
be simply because you're working the control with large
leg muscles rather than smaller, finer foot and ankle
muscles.
I like the controls on the Piet very much.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Freight MultiFunction
Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your opinion is this
a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying one? I have purchased
other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freight in the past, and
have invariably been disappointed in them as they did not last very long even
though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not abused in any way. I would
like to have a multifunction tool like this, but if the quality is equal to
those HF tools I have purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks
for your opinions.
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
tail feathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
Billy:
I purchased one of the Harbor Freight multi-tool knock offs about two
months ago and have found it to work satisfactorily. I realize that is
not a very long trial period. On the plus side it is a small fraction of
the cost of the name brands. On the down side it does not have available
all the tools that some of the others do.
My philosophy on Harbor Freight has always been: If you need a cheap tool
that will not be used all that much but would be useful right now - buy HF
or similar. If you want a tool that will last long enough to pass down to
your kids - suck it up and buy the good stuff.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
the Harbor Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for
$34.99), in your opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you
would recommend buying one?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Hi Billy I purchased one of those multi function cutters from harbor Frei
ght about a month ago to do a cutting job on my Piet to add some brake cabl
e pulleys underneath the belly stringers that were already in place. I coul
dn't figure out any other way to do a neat cut and didn't want to spend big
bucks I don't know how long it will last but I figure if I only use it to
do those jobs that my other tools wont it's worth the money. It seems to b
e very well built and it does things other tools just wont do. I'd say for
the money it's a great buy. Ed Grentzer
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinion
s?
> From: billmz(at)cox.net
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Dec 2009 14:32:18 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor Frei
ght MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99)=2C in your opin
ion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying on
e? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freigh
t in the past=2C and have invariably been disappointed in them as they did
not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not a
bused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this=2C bu
t if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I
will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana=2C IL/Baker=2C LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows 7: Unclutter your desktop. Learn more.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/videos-tours.aspx?h=7sec&slide
id=1&media=aero-shake-7second&listid=1&stop=1&ocid=PID24727::T:WL
MTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_7secdemo:122009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I used mine today. It works well for the light duty occasional use.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
> Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your
> opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend
> buying one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from
> Harbor Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them
> as they did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as
> intended and not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction
> tool like this, but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have
> purchased before then I will pass on buying this. Thanks for your
> opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: for sale or trade
Date: Dec 02, 2009
I have the following items for sale or trade.
Federal Mogul main bearings for corvair .010
Seal Power rod bearings for corvair .010
GN-1 engine mount for a C85
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
GN-1 Aircamper
N1736 rebuilding
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: for sale or trade
Date: Dec 02, 2009
How can I contact you to discuss these Corvair items?
Rob
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan
green
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: for sale or trade
I have the following items for sale or trade.
Federal Mogul main bearings for corvair .010
Seal Power rod bearings for corvair .010
GN-1 engine mount for a C85
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
GN-1 Aircamper
N1736 rebuilding
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage bottom gussets
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
No
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote:
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage
dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor
is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the
fuselage also 1/4" ?
Thanks,
Jim
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: for sale or trade
From: "hwaller" <hwaller(at)optonline.net>
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Hi,
Could you explain if/how the GN-1 engine mount
differs from the air camper mount.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275896#275896
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Fuselage bottom gussets
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
That's correct Jim, all 1/8" gussets.
Rick
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, jim wrote:
> Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then?
>
> Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick Holland
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
>
> No
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage dimensions. I
>> got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor is 1/4" ply, are
>> the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the fuselage also 1/4" ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jim" <quinnj(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage bottom gussets
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Thanks Rick!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
That's correct Jim, all 1/8" gussets.
Rick
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 9:36 PM, jim wrote:
Thanks Rick, I assume 1/8" ply then?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage bottom gussets
No
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:18 PM, jim wrote:
Hi All,
Thanks for the help a couple weeks ago about the fuselage
dimensions. I got several good ideas. My next question: since the floor
is 1/4" ply, are the gussets on the remainder of the bottom of the
fuselage also 1/4" ?
Thanks,
Jim
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
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_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2009
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
From: ken anderson <kanderson051(at)gmail.com>
I have one and works fine. I have been using it in a kitchen remodel.The
blades seem to be of a cheap quality and wear easily. Dremel brand blades
look like they might work but havn't tried yet. Look in some hot rod
magazines Harbor Freight always has adds with this tool as low as 2999 and
there is always a 20% off coupon.
Ken
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Billy McCaskill wrote:
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
> Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your
> opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying
> one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor
> Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they
> did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and
> not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this,
> but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I
> will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Whaley" <MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
Date: Dec 03, 2009
The one issue with it is that it won't accept other manufacturer's
accessories... Dremel blades don't work in it for sure, so you have to go
back to HF for more blades. To be fair, I believe this applies to all brands
of multi-tools, it's not just HF at fault here. My father in law got one of
these a couple months ago for his handyman business, and the first time he
used it, it became about his favorite tool... ever. It's really saved his
bacon on projects quite a few times. He said the other day, "When this one
wears out, I'll be happy to buy the really nice, expensive model to replace
it, but this one just might go for a good while." He told me that the
higher-end brands have more "throw" to the vibration of the blade, but the
HF version still works just fine. I've used it a couple times, and believe
me, that sucker instantly became on of those "can't-live-without" kind of
tools. They can cut where there just isn't any other way to do it.
The only problem I've noticed is that when I was using it to sand something,
my hand naturally wanted to hold it up high, towards the business end, and
my hand position naturally covered up the cooling vents a bit. That being
said, it didn't get very warm or anything so I don't think it's an issue,
really. You can also use the B&D "mouse" velcro-backed sanding pads with the
triangular sanding accessory too... just cut the excess off with scissors,
or don't... it works either way.
The only recommendation I have against this tool is that it's very likely to
become a tool that you will use A LOT, so if other ones have more features
or more accessories or are more ergonomic to you, then that alone might be
well worth the extra cost. HF doesn't seem to have a ton of different
blades, but then I haven't looked at what's out there for any other brands
other than the one Dremel blade I saw that didn't fit. Still, if it croaks
tomorrow (after 2 months of use), I'm certain Dave would say he's gotten his
money's worth several times over. No reason to think it will, though, at
least it was still like new the other day when I used it!
I almost feel like that cheesy old commercial... "Please, if you don't get a
multi-tool at Harbor Freight, get a multi-tool SOMEWHERE". But it really has
proven to be that useful.
Thus far, the HF power tools I've used (mostly borrowed from my
father-in-law) have seemed to be fine in function and strength. They are
even probably the most cost-effective choice in the many cases when you just
need it once in a while and don't need some really esoteric capability from
it. Dave's HF multi tool, chop saw, and electric planer all continue to work
well after a year or two of occasional (or even quite regular) usage in a
variety of projects. His HF hammer drill died over the summer, but that did
get a lot of use and as I recall the story, it lasted longer than he
expected, given the duty it was being subjected to (they really needed a
jackhammer but the hammer drill was all that was available). My small
wet/dry vac still works great after several years. I probably would look
elsewhere for the 10% of tools that will see heavy, constant, strenuous use,
where high precision is critical, or where maximum features are important...
for instance, a cordless drill/driver, or a lathe, home neurosurgery kit,
etc. Then, obviously you should buy the best and most versatile one you can
afford. But I've found that when the tool fits into the "I won't use it too
much, I don't need a bunch of bells and whistles... but when I need it, I've
really gotta have one handy" category... and face it, MANY of our favorite
tools actually fit firmly within that definition... it can be awfully hard
to justify spending twice the price for a high-end tool when the HF version
will probably work just as well 95% of the time. Plus you'll have more money
left over, so you can go buy some OTHER tools to play with. Yippee! :)
He who dies with the most tools... is still dead.
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool
opinions?
>
> I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your
opinion is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying
one? I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor
Freight in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they
did not last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and
not abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this,
but if the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I
will pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
>
> Billy McCaskill
> Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
> tail feathers almost done
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Toolopinions?
Date: Dec 03, 2009
My ex's significant other is high end renovator. He has a
couple of these things, although the professional sized
ones. His issue is the cost of the blades vrs short life.
The cost of blades for his are $30 plus and if he lets
his boys loose with the thing they can ruin enough blades
in a day to eat up far more his share of the income. But
for us I can see more use than just the cutting. The sanding
function should be very usefull as well.
Clif, waiting for another order of stuff. :-)
I have one and works fine. I have been using it in a kitchen
remodel.The blades seem to be of a cheap quality and wear easily. Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "G & R Hewitt" <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Subject: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the
top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Date: Dec 03, 2009
I put tapes over the stringers after covering.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of G & R Hewitt
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the
top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
I put anti-chafe tape over the stringers before covering, then 1 inch
reinforcing tapes on top of the covering. I used 1.7 oz dacron though.
Ben
G & R Hewitt wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over
> the top stringers?
>
> Tapes on stringers before covering
>
>
>
> Tapes over stringers after covering or
>
>
>
> No tapes at all
>
>
>
> Thanks Graham in West Oz
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Possible a good economical GPS....
http://www.woot.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
I bought mine some time ago and aside from the noise and heat it generates
the thing works really well. Overall I have used it for cutting and sanding
and pleased with the results. The dremmel self adhesive sanding pads it,
it may accept other dremmel attachments and cutters. Sooner or later youll
have to make an after the fact cut or trim, this is the tool for that job.
John
In a message dated 12/2/2009 11:31:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kanderson051(at)gmail.com writes:
I have one and works fine. I have been using it in a kitchen remodel.The
blades seem to be of a cheap quality and wear easily. Dremel brand blades
look like they might work but havn't tried yet. Look in some hot rod
magazines Harbor Freight always has adds with this tool as low as 2999 and there
is always a 20% off coupon.
Ken
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Billy McCaskill <_billmz(at)cox.net_
(mailto:billmz(at)cox.net) > wrote:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Billy McCaskill" <_billmz(at)cox.net_
(mailto:billmz(at)cox.net) >
I know some of you Piet builders out there have purchased the Harbor
Freight MultiFunction Power Tool (currently on sale for $34.99), in your opinion
is this a tool of sufficient quality that you would recommend buying one?
I have purchased other hand-held electric power tools from Harbor Freight
in the past, and have invariably been disappointed in them as they did not
last very long even though they were used EXACTLY as intended and not
abused in any way. I would like to have a multifunction tool like this, but if
the quality is equal to those HF tools I have purchased before then I will
pass on buying this. Thanks for your opinions.
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL/Baker, LA
tail feathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275853#275853)
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
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le, List Admin.
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st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: LA next week
I will be in Los Angeles area next week and looking for some Piets to
visit, anyone? Long Beach, City of Industry, Fontana area, anyone, anyone?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: built up spars
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Has anyone done any structural analysis of any of
the Piet spars... either the stock solid spruce, or
the routed, or the built-up in any configuration?
I'd like to compare notes on some calculations that
I've done.
thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: built up spars
From: "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
I've done a thorough search on this list's archive, and I'm pretty sure that even
if it is done, it is not posted on this list.
Only thing we can be sure is that all four configurations (3/4" full, 1" routed,
1" I-beam, 1 1/4" box spar) have been built in numbers and flying safely. It
is not quite clear to me if box spar is mandatory modification in UK to get
a licence, or just preferred way of building it.
I would love to see a table with columns with weight figures and relative strength
compared to, for instance, 3/4" solid spruce spar, price figure and time needed
to build it. That way we would know which spar is most reasonable to build.
Anyway, maybe it is not a bad thing for everyone to build by his intuition
and preferences.
Regards,
Ivan
taildrags(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> Has anyone done any structural analysis of any of
> the Piet spars... either the stock solid spruce, or
> the routed, or the built-up in any configuration?
> I'd like to compare notes on some calculations that
> I've done.
>
> thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275964#275964
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Reinforcing tapes on fuse side stringers, none on turrtle deck.
BR
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: G & R Hewitt <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the
top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: built up spars
Date: Dec 03, 2009
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I put mine on after.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: G & R Hewitt <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the
top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
========================
===========
-
-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --
-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)
-
-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on
-= the Contribution link below to find out more about
-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided
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-= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com
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-========================
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Graham,
N8031 had tapes put on after covering and there are still cracks over
the sharp edges of the stringers. Of course, the covering is 30 years
old (Stits Poly-fiber)...
If you're willing to expend the time and effort I think it would be a
good thing to round the tops of your stringers like Michael Perez did...
there are pictures of his work in the archives. He posted them sometime
in the past couple of months.
Cheers,
Dan
G & R Hewitt wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over
> the top stringers?
>
> Tapes on stringers before covering
>
>
>
> Tapes over stringers after covering or
>
>
>
> No tapes at all
>
>
>
> Thanks Graham in West Oz
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: "johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com" <johnnysdrop(at)googlemail.com>
Subject: RE: built up spars
The box spar IS mandatory here in the UK & have been thoroughly stressed analised
as a result.
Regards
john
-----Original Message-----
From: ivan.todorovic
Sent: 03/12/2009, 16:10
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: built up spars
I've done a thorough search on this list's archive, and I'm pretty sure that even
if it is done, it is not posted on this list.
Only thing we can be sure is that all four configurations (3/4" full, 1" routed,
1" I-beam, 1 1/4" box spar) have been built in numbers and flying safely. It
is not quite clear to me if box spar is mandatory modification in UK to get
a licence, or just preferred way of building it.
I would love to see a table with columns with weight figures and relative strength
compared to, for instance, 3/4" solid spruce spar, price figure and time needed
to build it. That way we would know which spar is most reasonable to build.
Anyway, maybe it is not a bad thing for everyone to build by his intuition
and preferences.
Regards,
Ivan
taildrags(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> Has anyone done any structural analysis of any of
> the Piet spars... either the stock solid spruce, or
> the routed, or the built-up in any configuration?
> I'd like to compare notes on some calculations that
> I've done.
>
> thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275964#275964
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: rudder travel stops
how many degrees left or right should I put the rudder stops? cheers , Gardiner
Mason
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 12:10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
I put mine on after.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: G & R Hewitt <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
===================================
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Washinton CORVAIR Community College at Magnificent Machine!
From: "Brady" <brady(at)magnificentmachine.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
For all those who might be interested:
William Wynne is coming to the Great North West!
Magnificent Machine will be hosting a Ccrvair "Community College"
The Dates will be Dec. 26th & 27th.
If you are interested in attending please contact Magnificent Machine:
By email= info(at)magnificentmachine.com
By phone= 360-635-6042
toll free for those of you out of state= 1-866-606-4152
Things you will see at the event are:
A running CH-750 WW Corvair installation!
A MagVair with a Dan Weseman 5th bearing!
Several other Corvair engine conversions in various stages including running!
CH-601's & CH-701's in various stages.
Magnificent Machine's New Facility!
Corvair Cars!
The adjacent space that maybe used for our builder assist program!
And most importantly other aviation & Corvair nuts that you have more in common
with than you realize.
DON'T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY!
The Coffee is always on and is always free so if you can't make these dates please
feel free to stop by at your leisure.
Thank you,
Brady McCormick
CH-701/Corvair, CH-601/Corvair
5686 Minder RD NE
Suite #101
Poulsbo, WA 98370
1-866-606-4152 toll free!
info(at)magnificentmachine.com
www.magnificentmachine.com
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275993#275993
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: LA next week
Looks like I'll just miss you! I'm in Bothell WA next week, Los Angeles the following
week....
Seems like I'm following you around a LOT! :-)
I will be in Los Angeles area next week and looking for some Piets to
visit, anyone? Long Beach, City of Industry, Fontana area, anyone, anyone?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: rudder travel stops
Hm. Our Piet doesn't have rudder stops, afaik.
Jeff
>how many degrees left or right should I put the rudder stops?
>cheers , Gardiner Mason
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: rudder travel stops
Date: Dec 03, 2009
I set the stops so that the rudder would not hit the elevators. As I
remember the rudder and the inner edge of the elevators were about
parallel--Jim Lagowski
From: airlion
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder travel stops
how many degrees left or right should I put the rudder stops? cheers
, Gardiner Mason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 12:10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
I put mine on after.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: G & R Hewitt <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over
the top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution==========
t"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List===
=======
tp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: rudder travel stops
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Thats what I did also.
Rick
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Lagowski Morrow wrote:
> I set the stops so that the rudder would not hit the elevators. As I
> remember the rudder and the inner edge of the elevators were about
> parallel--Jim Lagowski
>
> *From:* airlion
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:10 PM
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: rudder travel stops
>
> how many degrees left or right should I put the rudder stops? cheers ,
> Gardiner Mason
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "helspersew(at)aol.com"
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thu, December 3, 2009 12:10:22 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
>
> I put mine on after.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: G & R Hewitt <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
> To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
> Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:38 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
>
> Hi all
> Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the
> top stringers?
> Tapes on stringers before covering
>
> Tapes over stringers after covering or
>
> No tapes at all
>
> Thanks Graham in West Oz
>
> *
>
>
> =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
>
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: one man's method of rudder stops
Two blocks of poplar with T-88 glued as shown in front of the rudder bar to
prevent the rudder from hitting either elevator.
My FAA inspector wanted to see control stops (Bingelis warns of this in his
books plus it just makes good sense)
on all of my controls.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: for sale or trade
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Not sure if any my friend. The mount is 11 3/4" long and I can send you
other measurments if you want.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "hwaller" <hwaller(at)optonline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade
>
> Hi,
> Could you explain if/how the GN-1 engine mount
> differs from the air camper mount.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275896#275896
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net>
Subject: Re: for sale or trade
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Is this the mount for the Corvair engine and the long version fuselage?
This engine mount looks different than the plans? But let me review
them....
Rob
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan
green
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade
Not sure if any my friend. The mount is 11 3/4" long and I can send you
other measurments if you want.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "hwaller" <hwaller(at)optonline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade
>
> Hi,
> Could you explain if/how the GN-1 engine mount
> differs from the air camper mount.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275896#275896
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: for sale or trade
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Looks like a conical mount for Continental engine, and certainly not typical
fuselage mounts for a Piet.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Stapleton
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade
Is this the mount for the Corvair engine and the long version fuselage?
This engine mount looks different than the plans? But let me review
them....
Rob
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan
green
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade
Not sure if any my friend. The mount is 11 3/4" long and I can send you
other measurments if you want.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: "hwaller" <hwaller(at)optonline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: for sale or trade
>
> Hi,
> Could you explain if/how the GN-1 engine mount
> differs from the air camper mount.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=275896#275896
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Subject: Re: for sale or trade
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Just a heads up: he mentions at the beginning of this thread that it is a
mount from a GN-1 for a C-85.
Not for a Corvair, nor for a Pietenpol, be it long, short, or really
short....
Ryan
On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Rob Stapleton wrote:
>
> Is this the mount for the Corvair engine and the long version fuselage?
> This engine mount looks different than the plans? But let me review
> them....
>
> Rob
>
>
> Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
> Anchorage, AK
> (907) 230-9425
> KL2AN
> Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Malley" <jgmalley(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Date: Dec 03, 2009
I put on a second layer of fabric in lieu of the tapes, makes for a
super smooth finish.
Jim Malley
----- Original Message -----
From: G & R Hewitt
To: Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over
the top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A-65 engine build
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
For what it's worth this is a little info from a source on another list that just
might help someone salvage an old Continental.this is not my story and hopefully
the writer will not mind me posting his experiences as he sent it to another
list I belong to. Raymond
The A65 is easily overhauled. I get my engine work done by any reputable automotive
machine shop with a friendly foreman or machinist. I have used automotive
rings with success although Continental rings are still available at a decent
price.
Let me take you through the first A65 I overhauled about 30 years ago for a Corbin
Baby Ace I was building.
I obtained it in a basket. It had been removed from a flying aircraft that was
being up-engined to an 85. The log books indicated under 400 hours since overhaul
but was obviously incorrect. Although it had standard inserts the connecting
rod journals on the crank were worn past the .010 grind for which Continental
supplied inserts at that time. The mains cleaned up at .010 under size.I went
through the Federal Mogul insert catalog and found a rod insert identical in
every way but width. It was a simple jobs to make a fixture from an old rod
and turn them in the lathe to the correct dimensions. The jugs were hopeless but
I found a set that would clean up within service limits. I needed 4 exhaust
guides as they were worn. Also the valves had previously been ground paper thin
on the edges. In the automotive field valves are available with oversize stems.
A little research showed that a 230 Chev exhaust valve would do the job
if the stems were shortened.
This only took a few minutes in the lathe. The guides had been reamed at the machine
shop to fit the oversize stems, thus the guides did not have to be replaced.
I did nothing to the mags or carb.
I flew it for around a 100 hours and pulled it for an 0200 Continental that came
available. I flew the aircraft for a few years with this engine and then had
a wreck. Damage was extensive and I had another airplane flying so I pulled the
100 hp engine and piled the remains in the shed. 3 or 4 years passed and I
was at loose ends for a project so I pulled the pile into the shop and rebuilt
it. As I recall the only part not damaged was the tail wheel and spring. Anyhow
it went back into the air with the old A65 and I flew it for several years,
sold it. Took it back on a trade and then flew it until I hung up my helmet at
age 73. It was quickly sold again and the fellow now owning it is still flying
with the old engine and it still requires no repairs.
Although the A65 is not a high time between overhauls it is very reliable and easily
fixed. Not many fellows installing one in a homebuilt will fly it to overhaul
because at the average of 50-60 hours a year that is quite some time...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276083#276083
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net>
Subject: firewall question
Date: Dec 03, 2009
I'm sort of new here, and just acquired a Piet. project. It had a
corvair mounted but the entire plane had been diassembled for a rebuild
before I bought it. The firwall was removed and I was wondering what you
guys that are using the Corvair have for firewalls? Thanks.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: firewall question
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Larry,
I am using 14 ga galvanized.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Vetter
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: firewall question
I'm sort of new here, and just acquired a Piet. project. It had a corvair
mounted but the entire plane had been diassembled for a rebuild before I
bought it. The firwall was removed and I was wondering what you guys that
are using the Corvair have for firewalls? Thanks.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LA next week
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Clark Griswold just called his boss a "four flusher" in Christmas Vacation... naturally
I though of you guys. LOL!
I know, nothing to do with your LA visit, but I had to laugh when I heard him say
that. I mean... just look at the guys and tell me they aren't a couple of
savvy four flushers.
I know, I've used this one before, but it is already a classic. Two major bloviators...
Ha Ha!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276102#276102
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pa270235r_145.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: LA next week
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Dec 03, 2009
Haaaa ha ha! No kidding!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276110#276110
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2009
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Winter Nap
Group, Well today was the bitter sweet day of puting the Pietenpol down for
the long winter nap. I re-arranged the hanger for the winter storage of th
e piet, so I can get my tractors out for snow plowing, and pulling dumb-dum
bs out of the ditch if I happen to be around.- As I put the piet in the c
orner of the hanger I thought about all the joy it gave me the past 12 mont
hs.- Early this year I spent several hrs removing the heads for a cracked
exaust pipe, and the other for spark plug threaded inserts.- I spent a f
ew hrs changing the fly wheel and fabricating spacers for a new ring gear i
nstalation, just a couple weeks before Brodhead.- I thought about all the
knowlage I have gained working and flying this home-built flying machine.
- All of the scarry, interesting, and rewarding moments of this airplane'
s history were revisited in my mind.--From the -1st failed attempt to
brodhead to-my 1st OSH arrival.- I have learned persivierance and
disipline from learning how to keep a experimental, auto engine flying, an
d staying safe, and enjoying the experiance it provides.- I have learned
much about working with my father, and gained knowlage from listening to wh
at he tells me, and not comprimising on anything questionable.- The most
memerable experiance this year of 2009 was the flight from Brodhead to Waup
un WI.- I was living a boyhood fantasy of a real Dawn Patrol from an open
cockpit, with 7 other pilots, probably living the same fantasy in there ow
n minds.-- Now done flying the Piet for the winter, I stand at my shop
door in my hanger, looking out from the warm shop, and I am still amazed th
at my father built damn near every piece on that airplane.- Then I look u
p at all the pieces I have made on my little biplane, and hope that some da
y they all come togeather and carry me from the surrly bonds of earth, just
as the Pietenpol my Father built just a few years ago.
-
Happy Building, (and flying to those of you down south, or with pavement or
skis)
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Winter Nap
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Why would you live in such a place?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
Where it was 61 degrees yesterday, and is expected to snow tonight, but will
be in the 60's again next week
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 12:37 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Winter Nap
Group, Well today was the bitter sweet day of puting the Pietenpol down for
the long winter nap. I re-arranged the hanger for the winter storage of the
piet, so I can get my tractors out for snow plowing, and pulling dumb-dumbs
out of the ditch if I happen to be around. As I put the piet in the corner
of the hanger I thought about all the joy it gave me the past 12 months.
Early this year I spent several hrs removing the heads for a cracked exaust
pipe, and the other for spark plug threaded inserts. I spent a few hrs
changing the fly wheel and fabricating spacers for a new ring gear
instalation, just a couple weeks before Brodhead. I thought about all the
knowlage I have gained working and flying this home-built flying machine.
All of the scarry, interesting, and rewarding moments of this airplane's
history were revisited in my mind. From the 1st failed attempt to brodhead
to my 1st OSH arrival. I have learned persivierance and disipline from
learning how to keep a experimental, auto engine flying, and staying safe,
and enjoying the experiance it provides. I have learned much about working
with my father, and gained knowlage from listening to what he tells me, and
not comprimising on anything questionable. The most memerable experiance
this year of 2009 was the flight from Brodhead to Waupun WI. I was living a
boyhood fantasy of a real Dawn Patrol from an open cockpit, with 7 other
pilots, probably living the same fantasy in there own minds. Now done
flying the Piet for the winter, I stand at my shop door in my hanger,
looking out from the warm shop, and I am still amazed that my father built
damn near every piece on that airplane. Then I look up at all the pieces I
have made on my little biplane, and hope that some day they all come
togeather and carry me from the surrly bonds of earth, just as the Pietenpol
my Father built just a few years ago.
Happy Building, (and flying to those of you down south, or with pavement or
skis)
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Subject: Shad Bell's Winter Nap story
Really well-written Shad and not only did you hit upon the romanticism of o
ur kind of open cockpit barnstorming
type flying but you shared how significantly building, flying, and maintain
ing your Pietenpol and engine have
given you a motherload of outstanding educational experiences and knowledge
that you can pass along to others
who follow your footsteps. Sharing the project and flying with your Dad
and the connection it forged between you
two is something that cannot be compared to even the price of a pound of pl
atinum. Very few have experienced
the journey that you and your Dad have. Don Emch and his father come to m
ind and I know they share the same
appreciations for what you've gone thru. It isn't just about building and
flying your own airplane---it takes on an
entire life of it's own and provides an education degree that no college or
university course listing can ever offer.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Winter Nap
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Neat story Shad... especially about the dawn patrol. That must have been something.
I don't have a flying machine yet, but I hear ya on the cold part. It was 20*
here last night, and expected to be around the same tonight. I've been eating
kerosene fumes all week in order to keep working on my wings. Tomorrow morning
ought to be memorable (I'm sure I'll look back on these days of BUILDING even
after I'm flying)... turn the key on a frost covered lock to open the doors,
carry in my thermos of coffee, fire up the heater and wait 5-10 minutes for
the fluorescent light to get bright enough to see what I'm doing.
It's not so bad though... this is Oklahoma. Although winter may very well have
arrived (I blaming Markle for bringing it), it could very well be 60* next week,
or Christmas day, or 3 weekends in January. Ha ha!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276143#276143
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Winter Nap nope BUILDAPALOOZA 09 and 10
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Dec 04, 2009
VG9tLA0KDQpHb29kIGZvciB5b3UgYW5kIEx1Y2EhIEknbSBwaWNraW5nIHVwIG15IDggeWVhciBv
bGQgZ3JhbmRzb24gdG9kYXkgZm9yIHRoZSB3ZWVrZW5kLi4uaG9waW5nIGhlIGNhbiBoZWxwIG1l
IGp1bXBzdGFydCByaWIgYnVpbGRpbmcgKDE1IGxlZnQgdG8gZ28pLiANCg0KR2FyeQ0KRG8gbm90
IGFyY2hpdmUNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0t
LS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206ICJUT00gU1RJTkVNRVRaRSIgPFRPTVNAbWNw
Y2l0eS5jb20+DQpEYXRlOiBGcmksIDA0IERlYyAyMDA5IDA4OjUzOjQ4IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5w
b2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBXaW50
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: firewall question
From: "Larry Vetter" <vetter(at)evertek.net>
Date: Dec 04, 2009
Thanks Gary for the reply, and photos. Actually the wood firewall has been removed
and I was wondering if you guys are using 1/4" or 1/8" ply for the wood firewall.
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276167#276167
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Winter Nap
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Dec 04, 2009
And -8 Reaumur. [Shocked]
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276169#276169
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: firewall question
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Dec 04, 2009
1/8"
------Original Message------
From: Larry Vetter
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: firewall question
Sent: Dec 4, 2009 8:11 AM
Thanks Gary for the reply, and photos. Actually the wood firewall has been removed
and I was wondering if you guys are using 1/4" or 1/8" ply for the wood firewall.
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276167#276167
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N." <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Winter Nap
Date: Dec 04, 2009
All this talk about putting the fine machines away for the winter!! I flew
last Fri and Sat and will go out again this weekend. This is a time with
smooth air and no bugs on the prop. It's supposed to hit 30 degrees on Sat.
Dick N.
St. Paul, Mn.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 8:31 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Winter Nap
>
> Neat story Shad... especially about the dawn patrol. That must have been
> something.
>
> I don't have a flying machine yet, but I hear ya on the cold part. It was
> 20* here last night, and expected to be around the same tonight. I've
> been eating kerosene fumes all week in order to keep working on my wings.
> Tomorrow morning ought to be memorable (I'm sure I'll look back on these
> days of BUILDING even after I'm flying)... turn the key on a frost covered
> lock to open the doors, carry in my thermos of coffee, fire up the heater
> and wait 5-10 minutes for the fluorescent light to get bright enough to
> see what I'm doing.
>
> It's not so bad though... this is Oklahoma. Although winter may very well
> have arrived (I blaming Markle for bringing it), it could very well be 60*
> next week, or Christmas day, or 3 weekends in January. Ha ha!
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276143#276143
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: rudder travel stops
After what Dan? Do you mean after the first flight? Gardiner
________________________________
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 1:10:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder travel stops
how many degrees left or right should I put the rudder stops? cheers , Gardiner
Mason
________________________________
From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 12:10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
I put mine on after.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: G & R Hewitt <grhewitt(at)globaldial.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 3, 2009 6:38 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Tapes over fuse stringers
Hi all
Re covering the fuse what is the consensus for reinforcing tapes over the top stringers?
Tapes on stringers before covering
Tapes over stringers after covering or
No tapes at all
Thanks Graham in West Oz
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________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2009
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: rudder travel stops
now without stops when I go full rudder they are parallel with the elevators. Gardiner
________________________________
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 3:03:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder travel stops
Thats what I did also.