Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ir
December 31, 2009 - January 14, 2010
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Tail braces in place of cables |
Is there anyone using something other then cables to secure the tail assemb
ly? (solid rods, tubes, threaded rod, wood struts, etc...)- I thought I h
ad read on this list a long time back where someone said they used some typ
e of struts or rods. Curious to see a picture or two of them on a Pietenpol
.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
What logo are you thinking of? I dont know of any official logos but
this logo will be on my plane when its done.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/IMG_2236.JPG
I am going to have it made out of vinyl when the time comes. They can
make anything out of vinyl, if you have enough money that is.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Can someone tell me if/where the Pietenpol Aircamper logo is
available?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail braces in place of cables |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Music Wire works well, Had to re-oil wires after20 years.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279519#279519
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Chris,
Good to hear from you.It's been a while and I was starting to worry.
That's the one. Do you know where to get a copy? Or just scan that one?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns(at)att.net
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
What logo are you thinking of? I dont know of any official logos but this
logo will be on my plane when its done.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/IMG_2236.JPG
I am going to have it made out of vinyl when the time comes. They can make
anything out of vinyl, if you have enough money that is.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Can someone tell me if/where the Pietenpol Aircamper logo is available?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Tail braces in place of cables |
Michael,
Take a look at any Taylorcraft - you could do the same. Turnbuckles and
shackles sure add up to $$$.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail braces in place of cables
Is there anyone using something other then cables to secure the tail
assembly? (solid rods, tubes, threaded rod, wood struts, etc...) I thought
I had read on this list a long time back where someone said they used some
type of struts or rods. Curious to see a picture or two of them on a
Pietenpol.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Tail braces in place of cables |
Michael;
I seem to remember that Ernie Moreno's Piet had brace
rods in place of cables, but I don't remember for sure.
There should be pictures on Westcoastpiet.
Like Pieti (or someone) said, it's pretty common to
see that setup, like on Cubs.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
Gary,
Way back in 1992 Frank Pavliga sold these as stickers. I doubt he sells
them today but I may be wrong as usual. They were 7" x 3.75".
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Chris,
Good to hear from you.It's been a while and I was starting to worry.
That's the one. Do you know where to get a copy? Or just scan that
one?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
catdesigns(at)att.net
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:05 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
What logo are you thinking of? I dont know of any official logos but
this logo will be on my plane when its done.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/IMG_2236.JPG
I am going to have it made out of vinyl when the time comes. They can
make anything out of vinyl, if you have enough money that is.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Can someone tell me if/where the Pietenpol Aircamper logo is
available?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w
ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.homebuilthe
lp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howto
crimp.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matron
ics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matroni
cs.com">http://forums.matronics.com
www.aeroelectric.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigat
or?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
HI Chris,
If you do arrange to have this logo made in vinyl let me know as I would also like
at least two copies for the side of the fuselage. Maybe we could have it done
as a group thing as Gary, Michael, Mike, you and me all will need them (I
think we would all want them on our Piets).
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Dec 31, 2009, catdesigns(at)att.net wrote:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> What logo are you thinking of? I dont know of any official logos butthis logo will be on my plane when its done.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/IMG_2236.JPGI am going to have it made out of vinyl when the time comes. They can make anything out of vinyl, if you have enough money that is.Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Can someone tell me if/where the Pietenpol Aircamper logo is available?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done,Fuselageon gear
(16 ribs down)
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
Hey Jim,
Happy New Year. I have been back and forth a couple of times with Gary.
I have this digitized with a small bit of cleanup. I will look into some
stickers. I think I can get them done reasonably priced for all.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Dec 31, 2009, at 7:51 PM, Jim wrote:
>
>
> HI Chris,
> If you do arrange to have this logo made in vinyl let me know as I
would also like at least two copies for the side of the fuselage. Maybe
we could have it done as a group thing as Gary, Michael, Mike, you and
me all will need them (I think we would all want them on our Piets).
> Jim B.
>
> Jim Boyer
> Santa Rosa, CA
> Pietenpol on wheels
> Tail surfaces done
> Wing ribs done
> Corvair engine
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2009, catdesigns(at)att.net wrote:
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> What logo are you thinking of?
I dont know of any official logos but this logo will be on my plane when
its done. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/IMG_2236.JPG
I am going to have it made out of vinyl when the time comes. They can
make anything out of vinyl, if you have enough money that is. Chris
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44
PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
> Can someone tell me if/where the Pietenpol Aircamper logo is
available?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (16 ribs down
> )
>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Don't forget about Avgrafix, http://avgrafix.com/
They are the outfit that did the nice graphics
on Mike Cuy's airplane and also made the brass
data plates that I sell for Pietenpols. Contact
Denny Demeter at Avgrafix with whatever you need
and he can make it, or may already have the
artwork in stock if it's been done before.
Another resource is Kris Niswonger, right on my
own home field of San Geronimo Airpark. He does
business as Vector Graphics and you can reach
him at (210)557-3585 or email him at
govectorgraphics(at)gmail.com
Kris and his brother Eric, and their father Gene,
owned and operated Air Graphics, LLC out of
Oshkosh and you will see the Niswonger name in
connection with some award-winning graphics on
aircraft.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
Hi John,
I think that would be good to have available; I for one definitely want one on
each side. Let me know if you get them set up. Gary and Chris are ahead of me
as needing them but I could get them any time.
Jim B.
Happy New Year John and Everybody on the list.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
Dec 31, 2009 06:05:45 PM, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com wrote:
Hey Jim,
Happy New Year. I have been back and forth a couple of times with Gary. I have
this digitized with a small bit of cleanup. I will look into some stickers. I
think I can get them done reasonably priced for all.
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com
On Dec 31, 2009, at 7:51 PM, Jim wrote:
HI Chris,
If you do arrange to have this logo made in vinyl let me know as I would also like
at least two copies for the side of the fuselage. Maybe we could have it done
as a group thing as Gary, Michael, Mike, you and me all will need them (I
think we would all want them on our Piets).
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Dec 31, 2009, catdesigns(at)att.net wrote:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> What logo are you thinking of? I dont know of any official logos but this logo will be on my plane when its done. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/IMG_2236.JPG I am going to have it made out of vinyl when the time comes. They can make anything out of vinyl, if you have enough money that is. Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:44 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Can someone tell me if/where the Pietenpol Aircamper logo is available?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down
)
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.howtocrimp.com">www.howtocrimp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">h (And Get * The Builder's Bookstore http://www.matronics.com/co -Matt Dralle, List - The --> http://www.matr &n============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
NX92GB has the 12 plate corvair cooler mounted at the stock corvair locatio
n.- We originally had the 8? plate cooler and it ran a little to high on
the oil temp.- No problems with the 12 plate cooler.- Another thing to
consider is where you measure oil temp, you get drastic differences.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: I juss wanted to say |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
SGFwcHkgTmV3IFllYXIgdG8gYWxsIHRoZSBQaWV0ZXJzIGJpZyBhbmQgc21hbGwsIG5lYXIgYW5k
IGZhciENCg0KSm9obiBSZWNpbmUNCg0KQW5kIEkgZG9uJ3QgY2FyZSBpZiBpdCBhcmNoaXZlcyBv
ciBub3QNClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1P
cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IHNoYWQgYmVsbCA8YXZpYXRvcmJlbGxAeWFob28u
Y29tPg0KRGF0ZTogVGh1LCAzMSBEZWMgMjAwOSAxOToxMToyOSANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxp
c3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogQ29ydmFpciBQ
aWV0IE9pbCBDb29sZXIgbG9jYXRpb25zPw0KDQoNCg0KTlg5MkdCIGhhcyB0aGUgMTIgcGxhdGUg
Y29ydmFpciBjb29sZXIgbW91bnRlZCBhdCB0aGUgc3RvY2sgY29ydmFpciBsb2NhdGlvbi6gIFdl
IG9yaWdpbmFsbHkgaGFkIHRoZSA4PyBwbGF0ZSBjb29sZXIgYW5kIGl0IHJhbiBhIGxpdHRsZSB0
byBoaWdoIG9uIHRoZSBvaWwgdGVtcC6gIE5vIHByb2JsZW1zIHdpdGggdGhlIDEyIHBsYXRlIGNv
b2xlci6gIEFub3RoZXIgdGhpbmcgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgaXMgd2hlcmUgeW91IG1lYXN1cmUgb2ls
IHRlbXAsIHlvdSBnZXQgZHJhc3RpYyBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcy4NCqANClNoYWQNCg0KDQogICAgICAN
Cg0K
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail braces in place of cables |
Hell Mike, my Pietenpol does indeed have rods on the tail feathers similar
to a a Aeronca Champ. If I were to do it again, I would go with cables, much
lighter and less cost. My rods have left and right thread ends so they are
adjustable.
Ernie Moreno
---- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail braces in place of cables
>
>
> Michael;
>
> I seem to remember that Ernie Moreno's Piet had brace
> rods in place of cables, but I don't remember for sure.
> There should be pictures on Westcoastpiet.
>
> Like Pieti (or someone) said, it's pretty common to
> see that setup, like on Cubs.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
If you guys just want the logo like that I can make them. I have a vinyl cutter.
I can do them up to 24" tall. I think I have the vector file already set up
for it too. It seems like I cut the "Pride of Cherry Grove" part out but it's
only a thirty second job to throw it back in if someone wants it like that.
It's been awhile since I've made stickers so I don't remember what color vinyls
I have in stock anymore. I'm sure I still have lots of white, red, black,
a blue color (I'm not sure exactly what blue I have) and I'm sure I still have
some school bus yellow around here. I'll have to check to see what I have
exactly.
Mike Groah
I painted my cooling scoops today. Tomorrow I'll sand my cockpit for it's final
clear coat.
Happy New year to you all!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
Any many Happy Landings
Hans
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
| From: | "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs> |
Ah, my nerd skills now can come into play:
Attached is vector image in PDF format, now 17"x11"
but it can be enlarged indefinitely without a loss in quality.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279580#279580
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/logo_185.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
| From: | Andrew M Eldredge <andrew.eldredge(at)gmail.com> |
Michael, If you have a vector file, I'd be interested in a copy. I drew
something like that up in coreldraw, it would have been roughly 1997 or so
when Steve was finishing what is now my airplane, but that vector file is
long lost to me. I'm getting ready to re-cover my fuselage and I was
setting up for another trace.
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Michael Groah wrote:
> If you guys just want the logo like that I can make them. I have a vinyl
> cutter. I can do them up to 24" tall. I think I have the vector file
> already set up for it too. It seems like I cut the "Pride of Cherry Grove"
> part out but it's only a thirty second job to throw it back in if someone
> wants it like that. It's been awhile since I've made stickers so I don't
> remember what color vinyls I have in stock anymore. I'm sure I still have
> lots of white, red, black, a blue color (I'm not sure exactly what blue I
> have) and I'm sure I still have some school bus yellow around here. I'll
> have to check to see what I have exactly.
>
> Mike Groah
> I painted my cooling scoops today. Tomorrow I'll sand my cockpit for it's
> final clear coat.
> Happy New year to you all!
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Logo |
Happy New Year, Mike! I may take you up on that, down the road. For now, I
made an aluminum faceplate for my prop and wanted to try etching, with my
sandblaster:
Pietenpol
AirCamper
1937
All in the right font, of course. My hope is that if I get the vinyl cut in
a heavy enough material that it will hold up long enough to do the etching.
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Groah
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
If you guys just want the logo like that I can make them. I have a vinyl
cutter. I can do them up to 24" tall. I think I have the vector file
already set up for it too. It seems like I cut the "Pride of Cherry Grove"
part out but it's only a thirty second job to throw it back in if someone
wants it like that. It's been awhile since I've made stickers so I don't
remember what color vinyls I have in stock anymore. I'm sure I still have
lots of white, red, black, a blue color (I'm not sure exactly what blue I
have) and I'm sure I still have some school bus yellow around here. I'll
have to check to see what I have exactly.
Mike Groah
I painted my cooling scoops today. Tomorrow I'll sand my cockpit for it's
final clear coat.
Happy New year to you all!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Shad, What temps are you getting on the ground and in flight? Gardiner Mason
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 10:11:29 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
NX92GB has the 12 plate corvair cooler mounted at the stock corvair location.
We originally had the 8? plate cooler and it ran a little to high on the oil temp.
No problems with the 12 plate cooler. Another thing to consider is where
you measure oil temp, you get drastic differences.
>
>Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Bend in push pull tube |
To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pu
ll tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put abo
ut a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat.- Is this a b
ad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more then s
trong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail braces in place of cables |
Thanks to all who replied. I like the look of the hard wire/rod and no turn
buckles. But where I am lost is the size and material of the wire. I would
like to use something small, cut my own threads on the ends and use nuts t
o adjust tension. My other thought was to use cable, but sewage on a fork e
nd and a threaded end and again use the threaded end for the tension adjust
ment.- I'll have to pay for the swageing and the fittings, but I'll save
on the turnbuckles. ANYHOO, before I ramble on, I now know it has been done
before, so I need to figure out how I want to do it and how much I want to
spend. Thanks again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend in push pull tube |
A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod.
The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column
bending" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a
simple column.
For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better
references is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy.
Otherwise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's
a bit more difficult to use.
But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground.
If you can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or
collapsing the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the
real airplane. Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight
hardware.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my
elevator push/pull tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I
would like to put about a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under
the seat. Is this a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control
system? It seems more then strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have
been wrong before. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail braces in place of cables |
hello Mike P., a local vender that does swaging of cables does them for
under $10 per end on the cables. At this sum it is not cost effective to
buy turnbuckles. Even when you toss in the price of the the threaded end
and fork which by the way can be right and left hand thread they are
much cheaper than buying four turnbuckles. They also look very nice. I
have over the years cussed my rods out because of the constant corrosion
issues.
Ernie Moreno
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail braces in place of cables
Thanks to all who replied. I like the look of the hard
wire/rod and no turn buckles. But where I am lost is the size and
material of the wire. I would like to use something small, cut my own
threads on the ends and use nuts to adjust tension. My other thought was
to use cable, but sewage on a fork end and a threaded end and again use
the threaded end for the tension adjustment. I'll have to pay for the
swageing and the fittings, but I'll save on the turnbuckles. ANYHOO,
before I ramble on, I now know it has been done before, so I need to
figure out how I want to do it and how much I want to spend. Thanks
again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend in push pull tube |
After spending more time with the "fake" (3/8" aluminum tube) It seems that
I can use a much smaller, (less severe) -bend further under the seat and
then attach it to the idler arm behind the seat. The bend amount seems to
vary depending on where along the length of the tube it is placed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail braces in place of cables |
Ernie, I may be able to swage my own fittings. I may have access to a swager that
I have used in the past for making cables. I just hope the guys I worked with
back then are still around and will allow me to use the machine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a
bit.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
I am not positive,(with out looking at the gauge in front of me), In flight
in 85-90 degree weather it runs about 220-230 degrees, measured at the bot
tom of the oil pan.- Ground run temp is quite less, as I don't typically
run more than a 5 min warm up time.- We use Shell Rotella T 15-40 and hav
e no problems with it.- The only annoying issue we have is a very slow "s
eap" from the back of the oil pan when the oil is warm and the airplane is
in a 3 point stance.- We might have to take the pan off before next sprin
g and put a new gasket on with some permatex gasket sealer to stop the drip
ing.
-
Hope this helps
Shad
--- On Fri, 1/1/10, airlion wrote:
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 9:32 AM
Shad, What temps are you getting on the ground and in flight? Gardiner Maso
n
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 10:11:29 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
NX92GB has the 12 plate corvair cooler mounted at the stock corvair locatio
n.- We originally had the 8? plate cooler and it ran a little to high on
the oil temp.- No problems with the 12 plate cooler.- Another thing to
consider is where you measure oil temp, you get drastic differences.
-
Shad
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mike" <bike.mike(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Gary,
You did all that with a chainsaw? Wow!
Mike
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Yeah.you should see the grandfather clock I built with a chainsaw..;-0
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Gary,
You did all that with a chainsaw? Wow!
Mike
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:33 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Yes, but you can use the Kitchen Remodel as an excuse to buy more tools,
or justify the ones you already bought!
Ben
>
> Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodelguess thatll slow me
> down a bit
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (16 ribs down)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
Denny at Avgrafix did my logo and my 30" number stencils for the wings as
well. He is great to work with.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:14 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Logo
Don't forget about Avgrafix, http://avgrafix.com/
They are the outfit that did the nice graphics
on Mike Cuy's airplane and also made the brass
data plates that I sell for Pietenpols. Contact
Denny Demeter at Avgrafix with whatever you need
and he can make it, or may already have the
artwork in stock if it's been done before.
Another resource is Kris Niswonger, right on my
own home field of San Geronimo Airpark. He does
business as Vector Graphics and you can reach
him at (210)557-3585 or email him at
govectorgraphics(at)gmail.com
Kris and his brother Eric, and their father Gene,
owned and operated Air Graphics, LLC out of
Oshkosh and you will see the Niswonger name in
connection with some award-winning graphics on
aircraft.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Wow that really looks good Gary. Beautiful job carving your prop. Thats a great
picture, thanks for sending it.
Happy New Year,
Jim B.
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Jan 1, 2010, Gary Boothe wrote:
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel…guess
that’ll slow me down a bit…
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on
gear
(16 ribs down…)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center section covering |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Rick,
I remember wondering the same thing. When I built my center section I basically
used three ribs. I just cut out the center area of the center rib. By doing
that the plywood floor was unsupported so I cut a 1/2" thick piece of stock
with the undercamber contour and glued it to the inside of the floor right where
the rib would have been. Then I glued a 1/8" x 1/2" strip to the underside
of the plywood floor right in line with where the center rib would have been
to simulate the bottom capstrip. When I covered the center section I just glued
the fabric to the end ribs then drilled small holes through the plywood floor
along side my 1/2" thick piece of stock that was in place of my center rib.
These holes were spaced to allow for the proper spacing of rib stitching within
the prop wash. Then I rib stitched that center "rib" through those holes.
After covering, the underside of the center section looks like any other area
of the wing and the ribstitching allows for the fabric to be pulled up into
the undercamber. I'll see if I can find pictures, it would sure help make it
more clear!
Don Emch
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279699#279699
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center section covering |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
Hi Rick,
I remember wondering the same thing. When I built my center section I basically
used three ribs. I just cut out the center area of the center rib. By doing
that the plywood floor was unsupported so I cut a 1/2" thick piece of stock
with the undercamber contour and glued it to the inside of the floor right where
the rib would have been. Then I glued a 1/8" x 1/2" strip to the underside
of the plywood floor right in line with where the center rib would have been
to simulate the bottom capstrip. When I covered the center section I just glued
the fabric to the end ribs then drilled small holes through the plywood floor
along side my 1/2" thick piece of stock that was in place of my center rib.
These holes were spaced to allow for the proper spacing of rib stitching within
the prop wash. Then I rib stitched that center "rib" through those holes.
After covering, the underside of the center section looks like any other area
of the wing and the ribstitching allows for the fabric to be pulled up into
the undercamber. I'll see if I can find pictures, it would sure help make it
more clear!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279700#279700
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Center section covering |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Thanks Don, I like your idea of a 1/8" strip to simulate the bottom of a rib
in the center of the plywood.
rick
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Don Emch wrote:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> I remember wondering the same thing. When I built my center section I
> basically used three ribs. I just cut out the center area of the center
> rib. By doing that the plywood floor was unsupported so I cut a 1/2" thick
> piece of stock with the undercamber contour and glued it to the inside of
> the floor right where the rib would have been. Then I glued a 1/8" x 1/2"
> strip to the underside of the plywood floor right in line with where the
> center rib would have been to simulate the bottom capstrip. When I covered
> the center section I just glued the fabric to the end ribs then drilled
> small holes through the plywood floor along side my 1/2" thick piece of
> stock that was in place of my center rib. These holes were spaced to allow
> for the proper spacing of rib stitching within the prop wash. Then I rib
> stitched that center "rib" through those holes. After covering, the
> underside of the center section looks like any other area of the wing and
> the ribstitching allows for the fa!
> bric to be pulled up into the undercamber. I'll see if I can find
> pictures, it would sure help make it more clear!
>
> Don Emch
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279699#279699
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
That looks fantastic Gary!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279724#279724
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Thanks for the reply Shad. If I taxi onthe ground for about 30 minutes the oil
temp gets up to about 245 and then I shut down for a while. I too have a very
slow seep from the back of the oil pan. Happy New Year, Gardiner
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:56:41 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I am not positive,(with out looking at the gauge in front of me), In flight in
85-90 degree weather it runs about 220-230 degrees, measured at the bottom of
the oil pan. Ground run temp is quite less, as I don't typically run more than
a 5 min warm up time. We use Shell Rotella T 15-40 and have no problems with
it. The only annoying issue we have is a very slow "seap" from the back of
the oil pan when the oil is warm and the airplane is in a 3 point stance. We
might have to take the pan off before next spring and put a new gasket on with
some permatex gasket sealer to stop the driping.
Hope this helps
Shad
--- On Fri, 1/1/10, airlion wrote:
>From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Friday, January 1, 2010, 9:32 AM
>
>
> >
>Shad, What temps are you getting on the ground and in flight? Gardiner Mason
>
>
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 10:11:29 PM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
>
>
>NX92GB has the 12 plate corvair cooler mounted at the stock corvair location.
We originally had the 8? plate cooler and it ran a little to high on the oil
temp. No problems with the 12 plate cooler. Another thing to consider is where
you measure oil temp, you get drastic differences.
>>
>>Shad
>
>
>
>
>ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
>/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
>ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
>w target=_blank>www.howtocrimp.com
>llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight a
nd ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.n
et>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56
PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Compa
ny=0A=0A =0AMany, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!=0A =0A =0AStar
ting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodelguess=0Athat=99ll sl
ow me down a bit=0A =0AGary Boothe=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Co
rvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuselage on=0Agear=0A(16 ribs down
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Ruse" <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend in push pull tube |
Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push ro
d at the bend. =C2-Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. =C2-I
don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fat
igue, but eventually it probably would. =C2-It might be after 100hrs or
100,000hrs, I have no idea. =C2-It will depend on the bend angle, stick
forces, etc.
One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you nee
d the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have tra
nslational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the
bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the
second pushrod. =C2-I don't know what that is called, but you see it a
lot on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to an
y angle you want with no concerns about durability.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
-- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93
David Paule wrote:
A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod.
=C2-
The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column
bending" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple
column.
=C2-
For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better
references is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Othe
rwise
the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit more
difficult to use.
=C2-
But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If
you can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsin
g the
tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane. Try
it on
a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware.
=C2-
David Paule
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From:
Michael Perez
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push
pull tube
To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator
push/pull tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would
like
to put about a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the
seat.=C2- Is this a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the contr
ol
system? It seems more then strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I hav
e
been wrong before. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Gardiner,
It is set for 4" back, now. I have a little room to move forward, if
necessary, but I hope I don't have to. Those diagonal braces get their
fittings today. The upper fittings would need to be remade for any changes.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight
and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner
_____
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a
bit.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Thanks for fixing the site Glenn... I have been wanting to add myself for a while.
Quite a list of Pieters there.
Question... most of the list entries have a stock image (see below), but a few
(Jack Phillips, P.F. Beck, Jack Textor), have added a photo. Is it still possible
to do that? If so, how?
Thanks again!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279775#279775
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/vectorpiet_147.gif
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Builder's Directory (Off Topic) |
| From: | "Glenn Thomas" <glennthomas(at)flyingwood.com> |
If you'd like a picture in your directory listing just email it to glennthomas@flyingwood.com. I think Matronics automatically changes the "at" symbol to make the email unusable. You can fix it yourself or use the email link at the bottom of the home page of http://www.flyingwood.com
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=279788#279788
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Gary,
I made and installed my windscreens and cockpit covers before I did a weight
and balance (duh). After the weight & balance I made to move the wing back
and that necessitated new holes for the control cables and struts and I had
to relocate the windscreen. 4 inches sounds like a good start but a quick
weight and balance check before the windscreens and fuse covers go on is a
good idea.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2010 4:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Gardiner,
It is set for 4" back, now. I have a little room to move forward, if
necessary, but I hope I don't have to. Those diagonal braces get their
fittings today. The upper fittings would need to be remade for any changes.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight
and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner
_____
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a
bit.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company |
Good advice! Thanks Peter.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter W
Johnson
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Gary,
I made and installed my windscreens and cockpit covers before I did a weight
and balance (duh). After the weight & balance I made to move the wing back
and that necessitated new holes for the control cables and struts and I had
to relocate the windscreen. 4 inches sounds like a good start but a quick
weight and balance check before the windscreens and fuse covers go on is a
good idea.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Sunday, 3 January 2010 4:11 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Gardiner,
It is set for 4" back, now. I have a little room to move forward, if
necessary, but I hope I don't have to. Those diagonal braces get their
fittings today. The upper fittings would need to be remade for any changes.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of airlion
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Great picture Gary. Do you have a way to adjust your wing back for weight
and ballance reasons? I had to move mine back 4 inches. Gardiner
_____
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 5:32:56 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy New Year from The Cool Propeller Company
Many, many thanks to Dan Helsper and P.F. Beck!!
Starting next weekend is The Kitchen Remodel.guess that'll slow me down a
bit.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend in push pull tube |
I was planning on doing the "typical" pivot/idler arm=C2-behind the seat,
but with my lowered seat bottom, that puts the arm under the seat and hang
ing below, past the bottom of the fuselage. I can get it figured out, what
I need to do is make/install the elevator bell crank in the fuselage and wo
rk=C2-towards the seat from the stick and the crank.
=C2-
=C2-
Steve, if you have a picture or drawing of the bearing deal you mentioned,
I would appreciate a look see.
--- On Sat, 1/2/10, Steve Ruse wrote:
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 11:33 AM
Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push ro
d at the bend. =C2-Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. =C2-I
don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fati
gue, but eventually it probably would. =C2-It might be after 100hrs or 10
0,000hrs, I have no idea. =C2-It will depend on the bend angle, stick for
ces, etc.
One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you nee
d the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have tra
nslational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the
bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the s
econd pushrod. =C2-I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot
on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to any an
gle you want with no concerns about durability.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
-- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93
David Paule wrote:
A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod.
=C2-
The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column be
nding" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple c
olumn.
=C2-
For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better re
ferences is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Otherw
ise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit mo
re difficult to use.
=C2-
But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If y
ou can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsing
the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane.
Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware.
=C2-
David Paule
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pu
ll tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put abo
ut a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat.=C2- Is this
a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more the
n strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. Thanks.
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
com
tronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Bend in push pull tube |
Michael,
Here are some pics of my idler arm. My seat bottom is framed per plans.
The
push/pull rod travels up and down at the idler arm, approximately
=BE=94.
Just a thought=85if you ran two stringers along the bottom of your fuse,
beyond the seat bottom, you could easily pick up another 1=94 of
clearance.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down=85)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
I was planning on doing the "typical" pivot/idler arm behind the seat,
but
with my lowered seat bottom, that puts the arm under the seat and
hanging
below, past the bottom of the fuselage. I can get it figured out, what I
need to do is make/install the elevator bell crank in the fuselage and
work
towards the seat from the stick and the crank.
Steve, if you have a picture or drawing of the bearing deal you
mentioned, I
would appreciate a look see.
--- On Sat, 1/2/10, Steve Ruse wrote:
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 11:33 AM
Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push
rod
at the bend. Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. I don't
know
enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fatigue, but
eventually it probably would. It might be after 100hrs or 100,000hrs, I
have no idea. It will depend on the bend angle, stick forces, etc.
One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you
need
the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have
translational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion
around
the bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via
the
second pushrod. I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot
on
old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to any
angle
you want with no concerns about durability.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
-- Sent from my Palm Pr=E7
_____
David Paule wrote:
A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod.
The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column
bending" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a
simple
column.
For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better
references is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy.
Otherwise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's
a
bit more difficult to use.
But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground.
If
you can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or
collapsing
the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real
airplane.
Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speedbrake@sbcglobalnet>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator
push/pull tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like
to
put about a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat. Is
this
a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more
then
strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. Thanks.
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
com
tronics.com/contribution
" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Making "Wire Edges" |
Group,
I recently asked the group about making wire edges for the front of the
cooling eyebrows. A number of responses came back (frankly, I lost track of
who said what), but I decided to try a scrap piece out of 25 ga. 6061.
Obviously, I'll be a little more sophisticated about the bending process.
This little sample took no more than 10 minutes, and was my first attempt.
(attachments are not in order)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bend in push pull tube |
Building my scout I had to route cables this way to stop any interference.
My elevator cables do not rub, but had to use a double horn.
string is to check alignment
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Bend in push pull tube |
I thought of that as well Gary. I can get it done, just need to take the ti
me to do it.
--- On Sat, 1/2/10, Gary Boothe wrote:
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 7:47 PM
Michael,
=C2-
Here are some pics of my idler arm. My seat bottom is framed per plans. The
push/pull rod travels up and down at the idler arm, approximately =C2=BE
=9D.
=C2-
Just a thoughtif you ran two stringers along the bottom of your fu
se, beyond the seat bottom, you could easily pick up another 1=9D of
clearance.
=C2-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear
(16 ribs down)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
=C2-
I was planning on doing the "typical" pivot/idler arm=C2-behind the seat,
but with my lowered seat bottom, that puts the arm under the seat and hang
ing below, past the bottom of the fuselage. I can get it figured out, what
I need to do is make/install the elevator bell crank in the fuselage and wo
rk=C2-towards the seat from the stick and the crank.
=C2-
=C2-
Steve, if you have a picture or drawing of the bearing deal you mentioned,
I would appreciate a look see.
--- On Sat, 1/2/10, Steve Ruse wrote:
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 11:33 AM
Another thing to consider is the effect of repeated bending on that push ro
d at the bend. =C2-Eventually that rod will weaken from fatigue. =C2-I
don't know enough to tell you how to calculate when it would fail from fati
gue, but eventually it probably would. =C2-It might be after 100hrs or 10
0,000hrs, I have no idea. =C2-It will depend on the bend angle, stick for
ces, etc.
One elegant way to deal with this broblem is to put a bearing where you nee
d the bend and attach two pushrods to it, one on each side, so you have tra
nslational motion on the first pushrod, purely rotational motion around the
bearing, and then purely translational motion in a new direction via the s
econd pushrod. =C2-I don't know what that is called, but you see it a lot
on old warbirds, and you can change the direction of the pushrod to any an
gle you want with no concerns about durability.
Steve Ruse
Norman , OK
-- Sent from my Palm Pr=C4=93
David Paule wrote:
A bend will drastically reduce the compression strength of the push rod.
=C2-
The bend adds moment arm and then you have something called "beam-column be
nding" which tends to greatly reduce the compression strength of a simple c
olumn.
=C2-
For a particular case, you'd need to do some analysis. One of the better re
ferences is by Bruhn, and a good technical library will have a copy. Otherw
ise the ASM that I'd previously recommended will do fine, but it's a bit mo
re difficult to use.
=C2-
But you can always make one like that and give it a try on the ground. If y
ou can put your maximum strength on the stick without bending or collapsing
the tube, it's probably okay. Hint - don't try that on the real airplane.
Try it on a mockpit with test hardware, not flight hardware.
=C2-
David Paule
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bend in push pull tube
=C2-
To make my life easier, I would prefer to put a bend in my elevator push/pu
ll tube. About 3 or so inches from the pilot stick, I would like to put abo
ut a 30 deg. bend to straighten it out to go under the seat.=C2- Is this
a bad idea? Will this bend compromise the control system? It seems more the
n strong enough for a Pietenpol, but I have been wrong before. Thanks. =C2
-ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listcomtronics.com/contribut
ion =C2- =C2- =C2-" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listet=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- =C2- =C2-h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net |
Can you guys refresh my memory as to ways you sealed your aileron gaps?
I tried some colored vinyl and it was too light and fragile.
Could one use weatherstripping foam? The gap is less than 1/2"
Thanks
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net> |
Douwe, you must have used the wrong vinyl! I've used it on serveral planes
and know others that use it and this is the first time I've heard of it
being fragile. I use it in cold as well as hot weather. I wasn't awear
there were different grades or thickness. I bought my vinyl from a sign
maker. Very tough stuff. If you decide to try it again, you might check
with the seller about the thickness.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:34 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gap sealing
>
> Can you guys refresh my memory as to ways you sealed your aileron gaps?
>
> I tried some colored vinyl and it was too light and fragile.
>
> Could one use weatherstripping foam? The gap is less than 1/2"
>
> Thanks
>
> Douwe
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08:22:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making "Wire Edges" |
VERY neat....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
>Sent: Jan 2, 2010 7:15 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making "Wire Edges"
>
>Group,
>
>
>
>I recently asked the group about making wire edges for the front of the
>cooling eyebrows. A number of responses came back (frankly, I lost track of
>who said what), but I decided to try a scrap piece out of 25 ga. 6061.
>
>
>
>Obviously, I'll be a little more sophisticated about the bending process.
>This little sample took no more than 10 minutes, and was my first attempt.
>(attachments are not in order)
>
>
>
>Gary Boothe
>
>Cool, Ca.
>
>Pietenpol
>
>WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>
>Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
>(16 ribs down.)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Making "Wire Edges" |
Gary,
Very nice. Once the front lip is wired and beaded, did you form the
gentle bend by forming around that tin can? Is there any tendency for
the beaded lip to kink?
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Making "Wire Edges" |
Jeff,
Thanks. First, I tried 'rolling' the edge back and forth across the soft
edge of my workbench, with gentle pressure. It worked fine, and would
probably work better on a longer wired edge. But the can was sitting there
in front of me, so gave that a try, too. In neither case did I see a
tendancy for the edge to kink. That was the reassuring part!
The Hans van der Voort plans call for a 2 1/2" radius, though, so I think I
will just make a template out of a piece of 2 x 4.
Cooling ears are today's project...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making "Wire Edges"
Gary,
Very nice. Once the front lip is wired and beaded, did you form the
gentle bend by forming around that tin can? Is there any tendency for
the beaded lip to kink?
Thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making "Wire Edges" |
Gary:
You really do not want the excess inside of the wire, it will never
tighten down as it is supposed to and there is no way to trim it. If
you figure out how much material it will take to go around the wire and
tuck in tight, say 1/2", make a fold 1/2" from the edge and bend it
beyond 90 degrees, then place the wire in it and using a pair of
smooth-jawed duckbill pliers (or similar) fold it on over and tuck it
tight under and against the wire with no excess. If there is excess, it
will not be tight against the wire. It is quick and easy, and the less
excess there is, the less tendency to fold.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe<mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making "Wire Edges"
Group,
I recently asked the group about making wire edges for the front of
the cooling eyebrows. A number of responses came back (frankly, I lost
track of who said what), but I decided to try a scrap piece out of 25
ga. 6061.
Obviously, I'll be a little more sophisticated about the bending
process. This little sample took no more than 10 minutes, and was my
first attempt. (attachments are not in order)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Making "Wire Edges" |
Gene,
I'll definitely give that a try! I was following the "Barry Davis Method",
which gave good results right out the gate, but I did notice that the tuck
was not really tight to the wire. That's why I used the dulled, wide cold
chisel.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Making "Wire Edges"
Gary:
You really do not want the excess inside of the wire, it will never tighten
down as it is supposed to and there is no way to trim it. If you figure out
how much material it will take to go around the wire and tuck in tight, say
1/2", make a fold 1/2" from the edge and bend it beyond 90 degrees, then
place the wire in it and using a pair of smooth-jawed duckbill pliers (or
similar) fold it on over and tuck it tight under and against the wire with
no excess. If there is excess, it will not be tight against the wire. It
is quick and easy, and the less excess there is, the less tendency to fold.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Making "Wire Edges"
Group,
I recently asked the group about making wire edges for the front of the
cooling eyebrows. A number of responses came back (frankly, I lost track of
who said what), but I decided to try a scrap piece out of 25 ga. 6061.
Obviously, I'll be a little more sophisticated about the bending process.
This little sample took no more than 10 minutes, and was my first attempt.
(attachments are not in order)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(16 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marc Dumay" <captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | fuel tank/centre wing |
Happy New Year
We are preparing to pursue building our fuel tank, and need some input from
our experienced mentors.
Fibreglass versus aluminum. Looking for minimum weight, maximum fuel
capacity and trouble free drain and fill connections when finished.
What thickness have other builders used in making either style?
May 2010 be a Year of safe flying/building and Blue Skies for all
captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | fuel tank/centre wing |
I used .050" 5052 H32 Aluminum, riveted together, then TIG welded along all
seams and over each rivet.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Dumay
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank/centre wing
Happy New Year
We are preparing to pursue building our fuel tank, and need some input from
our experienced mentors.
Fibreglass versus aluminum. Looking for minimum weight, maximum fuel
capacity and trouble free drain and fill connections when finished.
What thickness have other builders used in making either style?
May 2010 be a Year of safe flying/building and Blue Skies for all
captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
The plans say something like #1667 for the streamline tube to make the bell
crank arm. What size have you guys used? Anything different then the strea
mline? I thought about flat steel, but worry about twist.- Someday, I wil
l need cabane and flying stuts, but for now, I just want to get my bell cra
nk made.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
A question for Sky Scout builders. Does that model use the same
numbers, 15-20" aft LE of wing for CG range? I am building from the
Flying Glider Manual plans and havent seen that point discussed there.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 3 years in the making |
My official start build date was January 07,2007. While working away on my
2 year rolling schedule, I did not realize the amount or degree of progress
that was being made. Tonight January 03, 2010, I finished building the
last major structural element. I got the center section built and short of the
metal straps and bottom sheet installed the center section, now exists.
Technically this was the last major structural element I needed to build in
the construction phase of my Piet. Far from a completed aircraft
construction project it just occurred to me that all the major components now
exist.
Strange realization and almost 3 years to the day in the making.
Just figured that had to be a major milestone. Now for the other 16 ton of
work to get it to inspection, then its the test flight and fly off the 40
hours so it will be ready for the Muncie fair.
The 2011 Muncie fair (Brodhead) is only 19 months away!
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Dick - sorry to hijack your post here but have you started the scout projec
t now?
Tom B.
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b
Date: Sun=2C 3 Jan 2010 21:29:32 -0600
A question for Sky Scout builders. Does that
model use the same numbers=2C 15-20" aft LE of wing for CG range? I am
building from the Flying Glider Manual plans and havent seen that point
discussed there.
Dick N.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank/centre wing |
NX18235 also has a TIG welded aluminum tank. No worries with any kind of
fuel and fittings are rock solid when welded in place.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank/centre wing
I used .050" 5052 H32 Aluminum, riveted together, then TIG welded
along all seams and over each rivet.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc
Dumay
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 12:16 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank/centre wing
Happy New Year
We are preparing to pursue building our fuel tank, and need some input
from our experienced mentors.
Fibreglass versus aluminum. Looking for minimum weight, maximum fuel
capacity and trouble free drain and fill connections when finished.
What thickness have other builders used in making either style?
May 2010 be a Year of safe flying/building and Blue Skies for all
captmarcus(at)sympatico.ca
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 3 years in the making |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Way to go John! A milestone for sure!
I am getting cabin fever down here. I was able to get into the hangar last Friday
to do some work on my cables, but this week they are calling for wind, snow
and highs in the teens. In addition to that, the stuff that I really need to
get done requires some glue, which I can't even attempt to do until it warms
up some. :-(
I guess I'll continue to look for metal working projects (control horns, hinges,
etc.) whenever I can stand to be in the hangar.
Thank goodness for all this global warming, eh?
Good deal on the progress!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280025#280025
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Michael,
I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be streamline
tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just fine.
Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a thick bar to
avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being streamlined is to
reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside the fuselage. My
guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on hand, since it's such
a short piece needed.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#280056
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Aldrich <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky scout w/b |
In theory, a CG between 15-20" from the LE on a 5 ft (60 inch) wing
would give you a range of 25-33% Mean Aerodynamic Chord (MAC) and that
really is the critical number. Those numbers are a good range for
almost ANY aircraft unless flight tests allow for a larger range.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was th
inking of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but th
at would be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy.
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 1:23 PM
>
Michael,
I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be stre
amline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just
fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a th
ick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being str
eamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside
the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on ha
nd, since it's such a short piece needed.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#280056
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
I think the streamlined tube is critical, the airfoil on it must be a naca
1414......just kidding around, round tube should work fine.- I believe da
d used a scrap from my Jungster project theat had a little rust on it, clea
ned it painted it and -wa la.- I don't know what size the plans call fo
r, but I would guess 3/4" round tube .049" wall thikness would be plenty st
rong enough.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
I went ahead and bought a short length of the specified airfoil tubing.
If you decide to use round tubing, be sure to select a diameter large
enough to accommodate the axle that has to go through it, without being
structurally weak. It could ruin your whole day if that thing failed.
Ben Charvet
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky scout w/b |
Tom
Yes, for a lack of anything better to do on these cold winter nights I
am working on another project. I have a set of wing ribs, a jig fot the
tail feathers and am going thru left over parts from other projects. If
I can't find another project for the Sun n Fun tent, I will bring along
something to build. I am still hard at work mainly at completing the
Volmer Sportsman Amphib and only doing small stuff on the Sky Scout,
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b
Dick - sorry to hijack your post here but have you started the scout
project now?
Tom B.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: horzpool(at)goldengate.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky scout w/b
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 21:29:32 -0600
A question for Sky Scout builders. Does that model use the same
numbers, 15-20" aft LE of wing for CG range? I am building from the
Flying Glider Manual plans and havent seen that point discussed there.
Dick N.
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
onics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Now that we are past the first of the year and Sun n Fun is about 97
days away, it's time again for me to ask if anyone has a project they
would like to have jump started.
Several of us here on the list gather each year to demonstrate wood
building at the show. You would have help from several experienced
builders and take home parts that would leave you far ahead on your
building.
In the past, I have received big help with my projects. We built a
set of wings for Skip Gadd, a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and various
projects for others. I don't have anything definite yet for this year
and if you would like to make some big progress on your project in 1
week, contact me off list and I will fill you in on what to expect and
what you will need.
Dick N.
horzpool(at)goldengate.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
Michael, I sent you a pic a while back, but no dimensions of my elevator idler
bellcrank.
In fact, I made it from streamline tubing, and would again, but its shape is no
longer "streamline." It started as streamline tubing 2.25" long axis with about
1.00" outside across. I squeezed it uniformly to make it 2.50" long and 0.75"
across. This made an oval tubing section about 4 inches tall.
Then I cut notches in the top and cross-drilled holes up there. Now bearing ends
can fit into those slots. At the top then, are the tubes from the yoke and
from the main elevator bellcrank. The bearings themselves are trapped by the
tubing, with a bolt through the tubing and the bearing center, as you might expect.
When all was done, I had room for the bearing ends inside the length of tubing,
with room to spare. At the base I have a piece of half-inch round tubing welded
going crossways, mounted between two ball bearings and heavy aluminum (extruded)
angles.
It is all very smooth and rigid. Corky told me to widen the footprint of this
apparatus and make it more rigid than his prototype, and I did. It is overkill,
but I like it.
I think Dick N. used a piece of rectangular tubing in the same way on one of his
Piets, and I would have too, if I had seen his design first and had the tubing
handy. As with much else on Piets, I used what I had, without cutting corners
on specs of materials, strength, or quality.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Jan 4, 2010 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was thinking
of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but that would
be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy.
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 1:23 PM
Michael,
I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be streamline
tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just fine.
Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a thick bar to
avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being streamlined is to
reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside the fuselage. My
guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on hand, since it's such
a short piece needed.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#28005= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Na======================== -Matt Admin="========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
Thanks Tim. I get a lot of intell. sent my way and I don't remember seeing
your crank setup. If not too much trouble, would you mind sending pictures?
You can send the direct if you don't want to take up space here.
-
I have some really, really nice machined aluminum brackets for my torque tu
be for the control sticks. One on each end and one in the center that acts
as the "safety strap".- I planned on using these same brackets/bearings f
or the crank as well.
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Tim Willis wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:09 PM
et>
Michael, I sent you a pic a while back, but no dimensions of my elevator id
ler bellcrank.-
In fact, I made it from streamline tubing, and would again, but its shape i
s no longer "streamline."- It started as streamline tubing 2.25" long axi
s with about 1.00" outside across.- I squeezed it uniformly to make it 2.
50" long and 0.75" across.- This made an oval tubing section about 4 inch
es tall.-
Then I cut notches in the top and cross-drilled holes up there.- Now bear
ing ends can fit into those slots.- At the top then, are the tubes from t
he yoke and from the main elevator bellcrank. The bearings themselves are t
rapped by the tubing, with a bolt through the tubing and the bearing center
, as you might expect.-
When all was done, I had room for the bearing ends inside the length of tub
ing, with room to spare.---At the base I have a piece of half-inch ro
und tubing welded going crossways, mounted between two ball bearings and he
avy aluminum (extruded) angles.-
It is all very smooth and rigid.- Corky told me to widen the footprint of
this apparatus and make it more rigid than his prototype, and I did.- It
is overkill, but I like it.
I think Dick N. used a piece of rectangular tubing in the same way on one o
f his Piets, and I would have too, if I had seen his design first and had t
he tubing handy.- As with much else on Piets, I used what I had, without
cutting corners on specs of materials, strength, or quality.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Jan 4, 2010 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was th
inking of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but th
at would be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy.
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 1:23 PM
>
Michael,
I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be stre
amline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just
fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a th
ick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being str
eamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside
the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on ha
nd, since it's such a short piece needed.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#28005=- - -
- - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Na================
========| Date: | Jan 04, 2010 |
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
The tube that this "crank lever" welds too is 3/4" as per the plan. I guess
the round tube to make up the lever would need to be no smaller the 1". A
3/4" hole could be machined through it for the tube to slide into and welde
d. I would think that 1/8" on each side at the narrowest point would be eno
ugh to weld to and be strong for what it will be required to do. Any though
ts?
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Ben Charvet wrote:
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:17 PM
I went ahead and bought a short length of the specified airfoil tubing.-
If you decide to use round tubing, be sure to select a diameter large enoug
h to accommodate the axle that has to go through it, without being structur
ally weak.- It could ruin your whole day if that thing failed.
Ben Charvet
>
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
Nice, but I will have defer to the Russian expression: " God is high
above and the Czar is far, far, away" so am I in Anchorage, AK! Good
thought though!
RS
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 4:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun
Now that we are past the first of the year and Sun n Fun is about 97
days away, it's time again for me to ask if anyone has a project they
would like to have jump started.
Several of us here on the list gather each year to demonstrate wood
building at the show. You would have help from several experienced
builders and take home parts that would leave you far ahead on your
building.
In the past, I have received big help with my projects. We built a
set of wings for Skip Gadd, a fuselage for Gardiner Mason and various
projects for others. I don't have anything definite yet for this year
and if you would like to make some big progress on your project in 1
week, contact me off list and I will fill you in on what to expect and
what you will need.
Dick N.
horzpool(at)goldengate.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Lee Bottom field.... |
About how far a drive is Lee Bottom from Louisville? Looks like it's close to
Louisville KY....where I'm spending the next 3 days....maybe an hour drive?
Also, anyone have any other recommendations for aviation related stuff to see/do
while I'm in the area?
11 degrees this morning in Oklahoma....
jm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Clear 2" 3M tape from Wal Mart. Applied from the bottom, carefully tucking the
tape up into the gap. Had originally put it on top but was reading on the fly
baby list about tape coming off the top and creating roll control excitement.
So far so good, barely noticeable, inexpensive, easy to maintain and durable.
Kevin Purtee
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280216#280216
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size |
I understand now. That picture may help me with my idler arm near the seat.
--- On Tue, 1/5/10, Tim Willis wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 2:30 AM
#yiv1552847855 {font-family:Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:
10pt;font-family:arial, sans-serif;background-color:#ffffff;color:black;}#y
iv1552847855 p{margin:0px;}
pls see attached-- still in temporary form, as shown, with clamps, but it w
orks very well.- I need a new rear tube to the main elevator bellcrank, s
o still just clamped.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Jan 4, 2010 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Thanks Tim. I get a lot of intell. sent my way and I don't remember seeing
your crank setup. If not too much trouble, would you mind sending pictures?
You can send the direct if you don't want to take up space here.
-
I have some really, really nice machined aluminum brackets for my torque tu
be for the control sticks. One on each end and one in the center that acts
as the "safety strap".- I planned on using these same brackets/bearings f
or the crank as well.
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Tim Willis wrote:
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:09 PM
et>
Michael, I sent you a pic a while back, but no dimensions of my elevator id
ler bellcrank.-
In fact, I made it from streamline tubing, and would again, but its shape i
s no longer "streamline."- It started as streamline tubing 2.25" long axi
s with about 1.00" outside across.- I squeezed it uniformly to make it 2.
50" long and 0.75" across.- This made an oval tubing section about 4 inch
es tall.-
Then I cut notches in the top and cross-drilled holes up there.- Now bear
ing ends can fit into those slots.- At the top then, are the tubes from t
he yoke and from the main elevator bellcrank. The bearings themselves are t
rapped by the tubing, with a bolt through the tubing and the bearing center
, as you might expect.-
When all was done, I had room for the bearing ends inside the length of tub
ing, with room to spare.---At the base I have a piece of half-inch ro
und tubing welded going crossways, mounted between two ball bearings and he
avy aluminum (extruded) angles.-
It is all very smooth and rigid.- Corky told me to widen the footprint of
this apparatus and make it more rigid than his prototype, and I did.- It
is overkill, but I like it.
I think Dick N. used a piece of rectangular tubing in the same way on one o
f his Piets, and I would have too, if I had seen his design first and had t
he tubing handy.- As with much else on Piets, I used what I had, without
cutting corners on specs of materials, strength, or quality.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Jan 4, 2010 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Thank you Bill. I was thinking the same exact thing...using round. I was th
inking of using flat, then weld a "rib/spine" on it for the flexing, but th
at would be heavy and a lot of fooling around when using a tube is so easy.
--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator bell crank stremline tube size
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 1:23 PM
>
Michael,
I haven't built this part yet, but I don't see why it would need to be stre
amline tube. Plain ol' round tube with the ends "squished" should work just
fine. Flat steel would to be too heavy, since you'd need to have such a th
ick bar to avoid flexing. The whole reason for streamlined tubing being str
eamlined is to reduce wind resistance, which should NOT be an issue inside
the fuselage. My guess is that BHP just made use of offcuts that were on ha
nd, since it's such a short piece needed.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280056#28005=- - -
- - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Na================
========http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
_sp;---> ht=- - - - - - - - - - ---->
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom field.... |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Jim, as I'm sure you know, you are leaving just in time. Single digits for the
rest of the week. [Shocked]
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280225#280225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
Kevin,
kevinpurtee wrote:
>
> Clear 2" 3M tape from Wal Mart. Applied from the bottom, carefully tucking the
tape up into the gap. Had originally put it on top but was reading on the
fly baby list about tape coming off the top and creating roll control excitement.
So far so good, barely noticeable, inexpensive, easy to maintain and durable.
What did you paint your Piet with? The Sherwin Williams paint that the
last owner put on N8031 peels off pretty easily when a good, sticky 3M
tape is applied to it. Hence the reason I'm reluctant to seal the
elevator gap...
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
I have yet-some other-thoughts about the tail section cable supports.
- It seems to me it is a waste to have 8 individual cables to support the
tail.-The weight/cost/ drag of multiple cables, thimbles, turn buckles,
etc. seems a bit much.
-
I am planning on using 3/32" cable with swaged on fittings...I believe I ca
n swage them myself using the proper rotary swager.
-
-I am wondering if all 8 cables are required...why not run a single cable
for each side, top and bottom for a total of 4?- I am picturing a swaged
threaded stud end with a threaded on fork attached to the rear horizontal
fitting, the cable going up to the rudder through a fitting, (even using a
-thimble to protect the cable) then back down to-a swaged on fork, (not
threaded) attached to the forward horizontal fitting. The threaded fork on
each cable is the tension adjustment. The cable may be able to slide on th
e rudder fitting/thimble keeping even tension on both horizontal fittings.
Well, this may allow the horizontal tips to move and flex when in flight, s
o maybe anchor the bottom cables only, as per the plans. (now using 6 cable
s) Another fix would be to add a swaged on ball on the cable at the rudder
fitting and make a new fitting to hold it. This would keep the cable from s
liding and we are back to 4 cables again.- (but would need all cable
ends with threaded studs and forks for tension adjustment.) If 4 - 3/32" c
ables will not do, how about 4 --1/8" cables?-
-
Sound, worthy idea or a waste? (see attached simple sketch)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lee Bottom field.... |
Jim,
Its about 50 miles and an hours drive. Go due north on I-65 to State Rd-56.
East on 56 to Hanover Indiana, where Lee Bottom is near.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To: Pietenpol List
> Date: 1/5/2010 8:26:48 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lee Bottom field....
>
>
> About how far a drive is Lee Bottom from Louisville? Looks like it's
close to Louisville KY....where I'm spending the next 3 days....maybe an
hour drive?
>
> Also, anyone have any other recommendations for aviation related stuff to
see/do while I'm in the area?
>
> 11 degrees this morning in Oklahoma....
>
> jm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Cables have a minimum diameter for going around bends. See pulleys for
that.
You'll need to ensure that the cables can't move in either direction
around that pivot. They've got to be completely captured. A few
sailboats lost their masts when they tried this, before they learned
that.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
I have yet some other thoughts about the tail section cable
supports. It seems to me it is a waste to have 8 individual cables to
support the tail. The weight/cost/ drag of multiple cables, thimbles,
turn buckles, etc. seems a bit much.
I am planning on using 3/32" cable with swaged on fittings...I
believe I can swage them myself using the proper rotary swager.
I am wondering if all 8 cables are required...why not run a
single cable for each side, top and bottom for a total of 4? I am
picturing a swaged threaded stud end with a threaded on fork attached to
the rear horizontal fitting, the cable going up to the rudder through a
fitting, (even using a thimble to protect the cable) then back down to a
swaged on fork, (not threaded) attached to the forward horizontal
fitting. The threaded fork on each cable is the tension adjustment. The
cable may be able to slide on the rudder fitting/thimble keeping even
tension on both horizontal fittings. Well, this may allow the horizontal
tips to move and flex when in flight, so maybe anchor the bottom cables
only, as per the plans. (now using 6 cables) Another fix would be to add
a swaged on ball on the cable at the rudder fitting and make a new
fitting to hold it. This would keep the cable from sliding and we are
back to 4 cables again. (but would need all cable ends with threaded
studs and forks for tension adjustment.) If 4 - 3/32" cables will not
do, how about 4 - 1/8" cables?
Sound, worthy idea or a waste? (see attached simple sketch)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Multiple cables prevents the compromizing of the whole system should one
individual fail. With your proposed system it compromizes the structure
of the entire structure should the single cable fail.
Just a thought:
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
I have yet some other thoughts about the tail section cable
supports. It seems to me it is a waste to have 8 individual cables to
support the tail. The weight/cost/ drag of multiple cables, thimbles,
turn buckles, etc. seems a bit much.
I am planning on using 3/32" cable with swaged on fittings...I
believe I can swage them myself using the proper rotary swager.
I am wondering if all 8 cables are required...why not run a
single cable for each side, top and bottom for a total of 4? I am
picturing a swaged threaded stud end with a threaded on fork attached to
the rear horizontal fitting, the cable going up to the rudder through a
fitting, (even using a thimble to protect the cable) then back down to a
swaged on fork, (not threaded) attached to the forward horizontal
fitting. The threaded fork on each cable is the tension adjustment. The
cable may be able to slide on the rudder fitting/thimble keeping even
tension on both horizontal fittings. Well, this may allow the horizontal
tips to move and flex when in flight, so maybe anchor the bottom cables
only, as per the plans. (now using 6 cables) Another fix would be to add
a swaged on ball on the cable at the rudder fitting and make a new
fitting to hold it. This would keep the cable from sliding and we are
back to 4 cables again. (but would need all cable ends with threaded
studs and forks for tension adjustment.) If 4 - 3/32" cables will not
do, how about 4 - 1/8" cables?
Sound, worthy idea or a waste? (see attached simple sketch)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
For what it's worth.
Kevin Purtee
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280253#280253
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/50_hour_report_142.doc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Stits polyfiber through and through. It's pretty durable. Hadn't thought about
pulling paint off.
Fly baby website has notes on using clear 90 degree plastic angle as gap seals. You may want to look for ideas: www.bowersflybaby.com
Kevin
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280255#280255
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
using one cable would let the stabilizer rock front to back. you have to
make a triangle to make it stable.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 50 Hour Report |
Thanks, Kevin. Nice report.
This is Corvair-powered, C-85, what? Hitting 100mph full throttle in level
flight? That is about what they will do with a Corvair, right?
Yep, it was in 20s here today in Austin, TX, area early today, with low of
20F or less forecast tonight. Not cold by Canada, MN, WI, etc. measures, but
darned cold for here. Not a cloud in the sky now, either.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>Sent: Jan 5, 2010 12:29 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: 50 Hour Report
>
>
>For what it's worth.
>
>Kevin Purtee
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280253#280253
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/50_hour_report_142.doc
>
>
ks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 50 Hour Report |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Corvair.
Where you at, Tim? I'm sitting at Camp Mabry writing this.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280265#280265
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 50 Hour Report |
I am 7 miles west of Georgetown, off Hwy. 29. The project is in my garage. We
are sited between paved and controlled Georgetown airport (KGTU) and grass Kittie
Hill (77T), under 20 min. drive to each.
What are you doing in/with the Army? Let's talk about a visit early next month.
We have some issues in the meantime that I hope are temporary.
Tim
-----Original Message-----
>From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>Sent: Jan 5, 2010 12:20 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 50 Hour Report
>
>
>Corvair.
>
>Where you at, Tim? I'm sitting at Camp Mabry writing this.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280265#280265
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 50 Hour Report |
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
Hey Kevin
I work in downtown Austin. Been plugging away on a long-fuselage piet for
about 7 years.
Enjoyed your progress report and I'd love to have a look at your airplane
some time.
Ken, who learns every lesson the hard way, including why not to use System 3
epoxy resin to dip your ribs.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:20 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> Corvair.
>
> Where you at, Tim? I'm sitting at Camp Mabry writing this.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280265#280265
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pfeifer Sport plans |
| From: | "vman1922" <kkamp72(at)comcast.net> |
If the Pfeifer Sport plans CD is still available I would like a copy.
Thanks,
Ken Kamp
13 Laurel Hill Dr.
Quarryville, PA 17566
email: kkamp72(at)comcast.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280281#280281
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 50 Hour Report |
Ken, what is your phone Number and address where you are building your Piet? My
son lives and works in Coupland and I get out there a lot. I am building my
Piet in Lagrange Ga. Cheers, Gardiner Mason, 706 594 3811
________________________________
From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 3:20:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 50 Hour Report
Hey Kevin
I work in downtown Austin. Been plugging away on a long-fuselage piet for about
7 years.
Enjoyed your progress report and I'd love to have a look at your airplane some
time.
Ken, who learns every lesson the hard way, including why not to use System 3 epoxy
resin to dip your ribs.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:20 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
>
>>Corvair.
>
>>Where you at, Tim? I'm sitting at Camp Mabry writing this.
>
>
>>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280265#280265
>
>
>>==========
>>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>>==========
>http://forums.matronics.com
>>==========
>>le, List Admin.
>>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>==========
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
OK, so sticking to the 8 cables as on plans, is it sound to use the swaged
stud end with a threaded fork for the tension adjustment in place of the tu
rnbuckle?- My cables would then consist of swaged fork, cable, swaged stu
d with threaded fork. (3/32")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 50 Hour Report |
Keven, I like to hear about things like your 50 hr. update. At the end you
say every flight builds your confidence. I look forward to that for myself.
I wonder while working on the plane what kind of pilot I will be. I know h
ow I THINK I will be, but I look forward to that confidence building you me
ntioned.
--- On Tue, 1/5/10, kevinpurtee wrote:
From: kevinpurtee <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 50 Hour Report
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 12:29 PM
il>
For what it's worth.
Kevin Purtee
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280253#280253
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/50_hour_report_142.doc
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
I just finished my tail brace cables. I used 1/16" cable and no turnbuckles. I
have washers under each tab on the stabilizer which can be removed if more tension
is ever needed. I set up the geometry using a loop of nylon string in place
of each cable. I put a stick in each loop and twisted the string to adjust
the tension and position of the surfaces. Then, one by one I replaced the string
with cables. I made the loop, thimble, collar on one end first, then I just
pulled the cable tight through the collar, thimble and back through the collar
on the other end by hand and held temporarily with a cable clamp until I got
that nicopress collar completed. It was simple, inexpensive, and light weight.
Just one of many ways.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perez" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2010 5:42:10 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom field.... |
Jim,
I drove to Lee Bottom when I lived in Louisville. I don't remember
how long the drive was, but it wasn't too bad, and the airport is
certainly with the drive.
If you're into R/C models, the club field at McNeely lake is really
nice. When I was there in 2006, there were some really great guys in
that club. We were all sitting around shooting the breeze one
afternoon and a full-scale Pietenpol dropped in on us. He did an
unintentional touch and go when he took his hand off the stick to wave
hello, and left in a hurry! I have no idea who that was, though.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Only problem I see is you can't adjust your leading edge up and down.- IF
, the stab were built stiffer, it would not be as much an issue, however th
e pietenpol tail is a light flimsy structure, that needs proper bracing.-
My oppinion is to at least have 2 seperate cables, with at least 1 being a
djustable.- For the added $30-$40 just make them per the plans with-all
having turnbuckles.- I think you will save much heart ache and time just
biting the bullet and buying the turnbuckles.- As far as saving some $$$
$, Just substitute motercycle chain links for the clevises, if in doubt abo
ut the strength, try pulling them with a tractor, thy won't break before th
e clevis pin.- NX92GB has a few chain links in place of clevises, and the
y will hold all day long.
-
Shad
-
p.s. I think there is a link of where to buy used turnbuckeles on the list
some where=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Just curious, why would I need the cables to adjust the leading edge? I wou
ld think the cables would, for the most part,-move the outer tips of the
horizontal. Even if only the forward most cables-were used, it would twis
t the horizontal stab., as it is not going to move much the closer-you ge
t to the rudder. Would-I not just shim the entire horizontal at the leadi
ng edge on the fuselage and then re-adjust cable tension to suit? I would l
ike to have a flat horizontal stab. Pulling on it with the cables would mak
e it bow up towards the rudder or twist it at the tips. (Maybe I'm missing
something?)
-
I would only use the cable adjustment for truing the horiz. and vert. stab.
to each other, to the fuselage and to make them as flat/true as possible.
Then the tension would be dialed in so each cable had the same tension. (ma
intaining trueness) From there, any adverse flying traits would be handled
with shimming.
-
I think I now have a handle on the cables and fittings I will use.
-
Thanks Shad.
-
-
--- On Tue, 1/5/10, shad bell wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 9:54 PM
Only problem I see is you can't adjust your leading edge up and down.- IF
, the stab were built stiffer, it would not be as much an issue, however th
e pietenpol tail is a light flimsy structure, that needs proper bracing.-
My oppinion is to at least have 2 seperate cables, with at least 1 being a
djustable.- For the added $30-$40 just make them per the plans with-all
having turnbuckles.- I think you will save much heart ache and time just
biting the bullet and buying the turnbuckles.- As far as saving some $$$
$, Just substitute motercycle chain links for the clevises, if in doubt abo
ut the strength, try pulling them with a tractor, thy won't break before th
e clevis pin.- NX92GB has a few chain links in place of clevises, and the
y will hold all day long.
-
Shad
-
p.s. I think there is a link of where to buy used turnbuckeles on the list
some where
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Isn't the ultimate rocking known as flutter?
Sounds like a good way to have a VERY bad day.
Clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Using half of the tail cables? (long
winded)
using one cable would let the stabilizer rock front to back. you have
to make a triangle to make it stable.
Howdy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
01/05/10 19:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming |
By coaming, I mean the sheet metal that surrounds the instrument panel and the
cockpit, down to the upper longeron and back to the turtle deck. I thought of
covering the sharp edges of the sheet metal with Armaflex foam, as used to
insulate home water pipes, then wrapping the Armaflex with leather. Then I would
secure the leather and foam to the coaming with leather lacing.
I've made many trial attempts at wrapping the Armaflex, using scrap vinyl and cloth,
but the material bunches and pulls. I'm sure the wrapping material has
to be cut out on a curve, but I can't figure out what the curve should be. Any
suggestions among you guys? Any patterns available?
Thanks for your help.
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wildhorsesracing <wildhorsesracing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming |
We have the same problem with Rollbar padding in racecars - the key is to cut little
triangles out of the backside of the foam padding that is on the inside
of the curve. It is similar to a woodworking technique called "kerfing".
Hope this helps!
-jim pantas
www.wildhorsesracing.com
________________________________
From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 7:06:47 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming
By coaming, I mean the sheet metal that surrounds the instrument panel and the
cockpit, down to the upper longeron and back to the turtle deck. I thought of
covering the sharp edges of the sheet metal with Armaflex foam, as used to
insulate home water pipes, then wrapping the Armaflex with leather. Then I would
secure the leather and foam to the coaming with leather lacing.
I've made many trial attempts at wrapping the Armaflex, using scrap vinyl and cloth,
but the material bunches and pulls. I'm sure the wrapping material has
to be cut out on a curve, but I can't figure out what the curve should be. Any
suggestions among you guys? Any patterns available?
Thanks for your help.
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming |
John,
That was one of the more difficult tasks on the airplane (ranking up
there
with making the landing gear struts and the windshield frames). I used
=BD=94
=93Funny pipe=94, which is black polyethylene tubing used in irrigation
systems
(you can buy it at Home Depot), and cut a lengthwise slit along the
tubing
that you can fit over the cut edge of the aluminum. Then put your
armaflex
foam over that. See where the foam ends when pushing the funny pipe
hard
against the aluminum to take up all the slop and then drill lacing holes
in
your aluminum, tight up against the foam.
Once that is done, you can take your leather and start in the middle of
the
cockpit cutout and begin lacing, using braided nylon twine. Once all
the
holes have been punched, take it all apart and trim your leather. My
wife
sewed a hem along the edge of the leather but that is probably not
necessary. Then do the final lacing with rawhide bootlaces. Pain in
the
rear!
Here are a couple of photos. One thing I didn=92t mention is that I
used a
piece of aluminum angle along the longeron to give support so you can
grip
the coaming and put weight on it when getting in and out of the
airplane.
You can see how this went together with the funny pipe and the foam in
the
first picture. The aluminum cowling is not shown, but would slip into
the
slit in the funny pipe alongside the aluminum angle.
Good luck!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Smoyer
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 7:07 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Covering the edge of the cockpit coaming
By coaming, I mean the sheet metal that surrounds the instrument panel
and
the cockpit, down to the upper longeron and back to the turtle deck. I
thought of covering the sharp edges of the sheet metal with Armaflex
foam,
as used to insulate home water pipes, then wrapping the Armaflex with
leather. Then I would secure the leather and foam to the coaming with
leather lacing.
I've made many trial attempts at wrapping the Armaflex, using scrap
vinyl
and cloth, but the material bunches and pulls. I'm sure the wrapping
material has to be cut out on a curve, but I can't figure out what the
curve should be. Any suggestions among you guys? Any patterns
available?
Thanks for your help.
John Smoyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Piet People near Austin & Replies to 50 Hour Report Post |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Austinites - If there's a nice weekend when folks are available I'll bring it here
for show and tell. Let me know if there's interest. (I'm hoping to get a
local hangar someday so I can quit driving 3 hours to Houston to fly. Currently
on several waiting lists.)
Tim Willis - I'm the Aviation Safety Officer for TX Army Nat'l Guard and fly Apaches
for them. Call me when you'd like to get together: 512-422-6371.
Ken Chambers - See above. I love showing it off.
Speedbrake - (caution, editorial) we gotta get out & fly 'em when they're done.
Some guys don't do that. Sometimes those flights may be challenging and feel
like work. That's ok. Set limits, be smart, but go fly. That makes us better
pilots and proves the airplane. Respectfully submitted.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280348#280348
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
This is confusing.
You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then you
say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge and re-adjust
the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to need your
cables to adjust the leading edge.
Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need to be
adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same as the stab
pivot point.
A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the tail incidence
, is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which DOES put a
slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably visually imperceptible
unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine tuning.
So, the short answer to your original question:
"Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most practical
solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will look nice
and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as you'll have
to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the adjustment, then
pull the cable tight to re-insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly
- that you're planning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork,
with clevis pins). With turnbuckles, the tension adjustments are done with all
of the cables in place.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Jim's Louisville visit |
Hey Jim,
We are under two hours from downtown Louisville,(up 71 towards Cinci) and my Piet
is here at my studio. Might be a bit of a treck, but we'd feed you it you
think you can make it out.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Cowlings Big Piet Picture=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.c
om=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 11:59:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List
: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0AI agree the engine looks great
Barry.- Do you have any cowling pics of your plane?- I'd like to see s
ome pics of how you did the cowling with the corvair and scoops.- My plan
has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) an
d thus I've made some cooling scoops already like you with the wired edge a
nd all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but it is easier with the ri
ght tools.)=0A=0AA big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call f
or assistance.- If anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mou
nted oil coolers or corvair cowls with the scoops, send them my way.- =0A
=0AThanks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A(going to go help my father-in-law
work on his RV8A today, but I hope to get back in time to get a little Piet
work in today)=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Barry Davi
s =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, Dece
mber 30, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Co
ed(at)mindspring.com>=0A=0AYep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not
really very hard to do.=0ABarry =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: o
wner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-ser
ver(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff=0ABoatright=0ASent: Wednesday, Decembe
r 30, 2009 10:28 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Piete
npol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List messa
-========================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a direct quest
ion of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took Shad's email as meaning
, use the cables only to move the leading edge. That may not have been his
intent, so I asked. There was no mention-of shimming. No mention was made
about fine tuning either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading
edge of anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the support.
It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well, that the cables wou
ld be adjusted to twist the thing.-I am not a fan of twist. I believe my
email explained itself quite well. Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper
tension/correct alignment.
-
"...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly - that you're pl
anning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork, with clevis pins)
. "
-
I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the fork and hold
it there with thread.
-
As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
-
-
-
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
This is confusing.
You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then
you say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge an
d re-adjust the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going
to need your cables to adjust the leading edge.
Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need t
o be adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same a
s the stab pivot point.
A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the tai
l incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which DOE
S put a slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably v
isually imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine t
uning.
So, the short answer to your original question:
"Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most p
ractical solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will l
ook nice and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as
you'll have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the ad
justment, then pull the cable tight to re-With turnbuckles, the tension adj
ustments are done with all of the cables in place.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet People near Austin & Replies to 50 Hour Report |
Post
| From: | Ken Chambers <ken.riffic(at)gmail.com> |
I'm open most weekends and I've love to hear her roar.
Ken
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:32 AM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> Austinites - If there's a nice weekend when folks are available I'll bring
> it here for show and tell. Let me know if there's interest. (I'm hoping to
> get a local hangar someday so I can quit driving 3 hours to Houston to fly.
> Currently on several waiting lists.)
>
> Tim Willis - I'm the Aviation Safety Officer for TX Army Nat'l Guard and
> fly Apaches for them. Call me when you'd like to get together:
> 512-422-6371.
>
> Ken Chambers - See above. I love showing it off.
>
> Speedbrake - (caution, editorial) we gotta get out & fly 'em when they're
> done. Some guys don't do that. Sometimes those flights may be challenging
> and feel like work. That's ok. Set limits, be smart, but go fly. That
> makes us better pilots and proves the airplane. Respectfully submitted.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280348#280348
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Great looking plane! I like the cowling. Mike and I are working on our pl
ane together. It is really his plane but I have been caught up in the proj
ect as it is being built in my shop. He has asked me to start on the cowli
ng. My question is what kind of edge did you use in the opening around the
cooling scoops and intake manifold. Is that a wired edge=2C a hemmed edge
??? Also the front piece appears that it could be a compound formed piec
e or it could be coned like a funnel?? What ever you did it looks good. T
hanks so much for the help. Vic Groah
Date: Wed=2C 6 Jan 2010 08:59:02 -0800
From: fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Cowlings Big Piet Picture
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 11:59:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your
plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corv
air and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (ma
ybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like y
ou with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but
it is easier with the right tools.)
A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. I
f anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or
corvair cowls with the scoops=2C send them my way.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today=2C but I hope to
get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)
From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 8:01:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Yep=2C they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to d
o.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday=2C December 30=2C 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
www.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I've noticed that several people have used chain master links in place of clevises,
which are obviously plenty strong for the task, but I can't figure out what
series or type of chain these links are from. I run a 520 series chain on
my enduro motorcycle, which I believe is one of the largest of the motorcycle
varieties but the links that I've seen used in place of clevises are elongated,
and most likely not used on a motorcycle drive.
Anyone know whey type of chain these links are from, or where I can find some?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280389#280389
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Real nice looking Piet!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr
om: Frank Metcalfe =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.
com=0ASent: Wed, January 6, 2010 11:59:02 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List:
Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0ACowlings Big Piet Picture=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Michael Groah <dskogrover
(at)yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 20
09 11:59:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locat
ions?=0A=0A=0AI agree the engine looks great Barry.- Do you have any cowl
ing pics of your plane?- I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cow
ling with the corvair and scoops.- My plan has always been to remote moun
t the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling s
coops already like you with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not
that hard to do-but it is easier with the right tools.)=0A=0AA big thank yo
u to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance.- If anyone com
es up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or corvair cow
ls with the scoops, send them my way.- =0A=0AThanks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATul
are CA=0A(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today, but I h
ope to get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)=0A=0A=0A_______
_________________________=0AFrom: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>=0ATo: pi
etenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubj
ect: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pieten
pol-List message posted by: "Barry Davis" =0A=0AYep, th
ey have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do.=0ABarr
y =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matr
onics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeff=0ABoatright=0ASent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:28 AM=0ATo: piete
npol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Coo
roelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his post,
which I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you are going to
adjust the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal stab you will then
have to adjust the tension for all of your empennage control cables. If you
raise the front of the stab, the upper elevator control horn attach points
are now slightly farther away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach
points are slightly closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a
bit of tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to
make gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence that a
Piet built dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper range is going
to need that?), it would be probably be easier and quicker to adjust a
couple cables via turnbuckles on the tail than it would be to install
different shims on the stab and have to readjust the tension on 6 control
cables....
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a direct
> question of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took Shad's email as
> meaning, use the cables only to move the leading edge. That may not have
> been his intent, so I asked. There was no mention of shimming. No mention
> was made about fine tuning either. I would not use the cables to adjust the
> leading edge of anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the
> support. It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well, that the
> cables would be adjusted to twist the thing. I am not a fan of twist. I
> believe my email explained itself quite well. Shim as needed, adjust cables
> to proper tension/correct alignment.
>
> "...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly - that you're
> planning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork, with clevis
> pins). "
>
> I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the fork and hold
> it there with thread.
>
> As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church * wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
> billspiet@sympatico.ca<http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>
> >
>
> This is confusing.
> You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then
> you say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge and
> re-adjust the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to
> need your cables to adjust the leading edge.
> Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need
> to be adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same
> as the stab pivot point.
> A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the
> tail incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which
> DOES put a slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably
> visually imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine
> tuning.
>
> So, the short answer to your original question:
> "Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
> would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
>
> There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most
> practical solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will
> look nice and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as
> you'll have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the
> adjustment, then pull the cable tight to re-With turnbuckles, the tension
> adjustments are done with all of the cables in place.
>
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036= - The
> Pietenpol-List Email Forum
> -http://www.matronics.com/Na=======================
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | While we are talking cables... |
I have seen in the archives that some use 1/16th cable for tail bracing. Fo
r those that are flying with it, are you happy? Any issues?-
-
To the rest of the list, do you all feel 1/16" cable is too small for contr
ol cable?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
I concur.
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Ryan Mueller wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winde
d)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:42 PM
One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his post, whi
ch I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you are going to ad
just the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal stab you will then ha
ve to adjust the tension for all of your empennage control cables. If you r
aise the front of the stab, the upper elevator control horn attach points a
re now slightly farther away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach point
s are slightly closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a bit o
f tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to make
gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence that a Piet b
uilt dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper range is going to nee
d that?), it would be probably be easier and quicker to adjust a couple cab
les via turnbuckles on the tail than it would be to install different shims
on the stab and have to readjust the tension on 6 control
cables....
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez w
rote:
Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a direct quest
ion of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took Shad's email as meaning
, use the cables only to move the leading edge. That may not have been his
intent, so I asked. There was no mention-of shimming. No mention was made
about fine tuning either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading
edge of anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the support.
It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well, that the cables wou
ld be adjusted to twist the thing.-I am not a fan of twist. I believe my
email explained itself quite well. Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper
tension/correct alignment.
-
"...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly - that you're pl
anning to use a traditional method of fastening the fork, with clevis pins)
. "
-
I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the fork and hold
it there with thread.
-
As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
-
-
-
--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church wrote:
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded)
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
This is confusing.
You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading edge, and then
you say that you would just shim the horizontal stab at the leading edge an
d re-adjust the cable tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going
to need your cables to adjust the leading edge.
Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable tensions will need t
o be adjusted as well, since the cable attachment points are not the same a
s the stab pivot point.
A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine tuning the tai
l incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting the bracing cables, which DOE
S put a slight twist into the horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably v
isually imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for fine t
uning.
So, the short answer to your original question:
"Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that conclusion.
There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are likely the most p
ractical solution. If you use a swaged stud with a threaded fork, it will l
ook nice and clean, but you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as
you'll have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out the ad
justment, then pull the cable tight to re-With turnbuckles, the tension adj
ustments are done with all of the cables in place.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036=- - -
- - - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Na==
=====================
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
There is a TON of propwash over the tailfeathers that is CONSTANTLY vibrati
ng all the brace cables
, elevator, and rudder cables. I would stick with the 3/32 on the tailf
eathers and also from the bellcrank
back to the elevator controls.
When I look over my shoulder I'm amazed at how much the propwash messes wit
h everything back there.
So just like you do when you have a forced night landing "if you don't like
what you see......turn the landing light off"
Mike C.
PS-On the other hand I've seen many Piets using 1/8" tail brace cable and a
ileron cable which to me is just
overkill and is a weight penalty to boot. No offense to those seeking mo
re security though using the 1/8" cables--- by
all means that beats risking your life going too thin just to save a few o
z.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
Mark:
The chain is a ANSI #50 roller chain for 3/16" clevis pins and bolts. You
can get it here ==>
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ansi-single-strand-roller-chain/=59cxim or here
===> http://www.tractorsupply.com/. I wound up using left over chain from
work and from friends. Just grind of the heads of the link pins and drive
them out, or use a chain breaker.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Date: 1/6/2010 12:36:48 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle Link for Clevis
>
>
> I've noticed that several people have used chain master links in place of
clevises, which are obviously plenty strong for the task, but I can't
figure out what series or type of chain these links are from. I run a 520
series chain on my enduro motorcycle, which I believe is one of the largest
of the motorcycle varieties but the links that I've seen used in place of
clevises are elongated, and most likely not used on a motorcycle drive.
>
> Anyone know whey type of chain these links are from, or where I can find
some?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280389#280389
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Thanks Rick... I'll check em out.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280406#280406
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
I don't concur.
If you increase the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabilizer, the
pivot point is the rear edge of the stabilizer. The elevator is behind
that pivot point, it will still be in the same position as before and
the control cables won't need to be adjusted at all.
Dan
Michael Perez wrote:
> I concur.
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Ryan Mueller //* wrote:
>
>
> From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables?
> (long winded)
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:42 PM
>
> One of the other things that I think Bill was pointing out in his
> post, which I didn't catch on the first read through, is that if you
> are going to adjust the tail by shimming the front of the horizontal
> stab you will then have to adjust the tension for all of your
> empennage control cables. If you raise the front of the stab, the
> upper elevator control horn attach points are now slightly farther
> away from the bellcrank, and the lower attach points are slightly
> closer. The rudder control cable would probably need a bit of
> tweaking as well. Unless poor flying characteristics require you to
> make gross adjustments by shimming the stab (and is there evidence
> that a Piet built dimensionally to plans with the CG in the proper
> range is going to need that?), it would be probably be easier and
> quicker to adjust a couple cables via turnbuckles on the tail than
> it would be to install different shims on the stab and have to
> readjust the tension on 6 control cables....
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Michael Perez
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Bill, my response was based on the previous email reply, not a
> direct question of why cables are needed for adjustment. I took
> Shad's email as meaning, use the cables only to move the leading
> edge. That may not have been his intent, so I asked. There was
> no mention of shimming. No mention was made about fine tuning
> either. I would not use the cables to adjust the leading edge of
> anything. The shim is the adjustment, the cables are the
> support. It sounded to me that, if the tail was not flying well,
> that the cables would be adjusted to twist the thing. I am not a
> fan of twist. I believe my email explained itself quite well.
> Shim as needed, adjust cables to proper tension/correct alignment.
>
> "...insert the clevis pin (assuming - probably incorrectly -
> that you're planning to use a traditional method of fastening
> the fork, with clevis pins). "
>
> I thought I would make some balsa wood pins to slip into the
> fork and hold it there with thread.
>
> As I stated, I have a handle on it now.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 1/6/10, Bill Church / <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>/*
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Using half of the tail cables?
> (long winded)
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
> <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billspiet@sympatico.ca>>
>
> This is confusing.
> You ask why you would need the cables to adjust the leading
> edge, and then you say that you would just shim the
> horizontal stab at the leading edge and re-adjust the cable
> tension to suit. That sounds to me like you're going to need
> your cables to adjust the leading edge.
> Every time the shimming is adjusted, all of your cable
> tensions will need to be adjusted as well, since the cable
> attachment points are not the same as the stab pivot point.
> A simple and effective method used by many builders for fine
> tuning the tail incidence , is achieved by simply adjusting
> the bracing cables, which DOES put a slight twist into the
> horizontal stab - but it is minor (probably visually
> imperceptible unless you're looking for it) - it is only for
> fine tuning.
>
> So, the short answer to your original question:
> "Sound, worthy idea or a waste?"
> would be the latter, but I guess you've already come to that
> conclusion.
>
> There are alternate methods possible, but turnbuckles are
> likely the most practical solution. If you use a swaged stud
> with a threaded fork, it will look nice and clean, but
> you'll have a difficult time making adjustments, as you'll
> have to disconnect the fork from the bracket, turn in or out
> the adjustment, then pull the cable tight to re-With
> turnbuckles, the tension adjustments are done with all of
> the cables in place.
>
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#28036=
> - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum
> -http://www.matronics.com/Na=======================
>
>
> <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280363#280363>
>
> *
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
Come on Dan! I'm trying to end this thread!
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
That's right, Mark.
Attached is a photo that Rick Schreiber posted to the List while back, to demonstrate.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280420#280420
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rich_schrieber_rudder_bar_top_1_160.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Great! Thanks Bill and Rick. I know I have seen this in a couple of places, but
as usual, when I want to see them, I can't find them.
I think I am going to utilize this method.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280425#280425
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using half of the tail cables? (long winded) |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Well, since my name was mentioned, I guess I have to reply.
Actually, I was not referring to the control cables at all, just the bracing cables
- and since the attachment points of the rear bracing cables are not in line
with the pivot point (the rear edge of the stabilizer), the lengths of those
cables will also change SLIGHTLY if the front edge of the stab is shimmed up
or down.
However, since the pivot point of the stab incidence is basically the same as the
pivot point of the elevators, there shouldn't be any need to readjust the control
cables.
I'm done now.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280426#280426
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lee Bottom field.... |
And if anyone hasn't been to Lee Bottom, and would like to see what's
it's like there, I have some photos from Soup on Sunday that my wife and
I attended back in 2006.
http://www.taildraggersinc.com/pages/gallery/sinful_sunday.html
Lee Bottom is just one more reason why I miss living in Louisville.
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Motorcycle Link for Clevis |
I used the links from a #520 chain--Jim lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Motorcycle Link for Clevis
>
> I've noticed that several people have used chain master links in place of
> clevises, which are obviously plenty strong for the task, but I can't
> figure out what series or type of chain these links are from. I run a 520
> series chain on my enduro motorcycle, which I believe is one of the
> largest of the motorcycle varieties but the links that I've seen used in
> place of clevises are elongated, and most likely not used on a motorcycle
> drive.
>
> Anyone know whey type of chain these links are from, or where I can find
> some?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280389#280389
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | airworthiness papers display |
Does the holder for paperwork, (airworthiness, reg, etc) need to be in the front
cockpit or rear cockpit or does it matter?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
Mike,
I've heard the same from more than one Piet owner. As you know this also
includes the leading edge of the vertical stab. Because of this it has been
suggested by some to attach the vertical stab wires forward and aft on the
top. I may do this myself.
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail bracing
There is a TON of propwash over the tailfeathers that is CONSTANTLY
vibrating all the brace cables
, elevator, and rudder cables. I would stick with the 3/32 on the
tailfeathers and also from the bellcrank
back to the elevator controls.
When I look over my shoulder I'm amazed at how much the propwash messes with
everything back there.
So just like you do when you have a forced night landing "if you don't like
what you see..turn the landing light off"
Mike C.
PS-On the other hand I've seen many Piets using 1/8" tail brace cable and
aileron cable which to me is just
overkill and is a weight penalty to boot. No offense to those seeking
more security though using the 1/8" cables--- by
all means that beats risking your life going too thin just to save a few
oz.
07:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness papers display |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Douwe, Just keep it on board, without undue looking. New rule ???????
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280494#280494
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airworthiness papers display |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Straight from the horse's ass....err...mouth...one end of it, either way:
--------------------
Part 91.203: Civil aircraft: Certifications required.
a) Except as provided in =A791.715, no person may operate a civil aircraft
unless it has within it the following:
(1) An appropriate and current airworthiness certificate.
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless the airworthiness
certificate required by paragraph (a) of this section or a special flight
authorization issued under =A791.715 is displayed at the cabin or cockpit
entrance so that it is legible to passengers or crew.
--------------------
Since it has to legible to passengers *or* crew, you could put it anywhere
in the front or rear cockpit, as long as it is visible.
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Douwe Blumberg
wrote:
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Does the holder for paperwork, (airworthiness, reg, etc) need to be in th
e
> front cockpit or rear cockpit or does it matter?
>
> Douwe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
| From: | "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com> |
I would like to emphasis the excellent (an extremely important) point Mike brings
up about tail flutter and "harmonics". I know BP did not have access to this
information, but certainly came up with a very successful design. As late as
the 1980's the F-18 was plagued with a tail vibration cracking problem which
grounded the fleet for weeks. This was due to the wind vortices' caused by the
leading edge extensions (LEX), generally at lower speeds. Very similarly, prop
wash acts on tail surfaces (in many different directions), causing flutter and
harmonics (and in IMHO, to a greater degree then the example above). Although
very controllable when understood and designed accordingly, I would recommend
obtaining a good understanding of all the forces and stresses at work before
straying to far from the tried and true, especially on a Piet with a less stout
empennage. Im not an engineer, just my personal experience. Actual engineers,
feel free to correct my interpretation as required.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280504#280504
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/f18_slip_stream_418.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
It sounds to me that the issue is cable vibration and not cable strength, c
orrect? Is the concern that the vibration will fail the cable not so much t
he forces pulling on them? (tension)
-
The reason I asked about the 1/16" cable is I had come across a few posts i
n the archives-where the-people-claimed to use, or will be using 1/16
". I just happen to have swage type fittings for 1/16" cable and was hoping
to use them.
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
I wrote yesterday about the cowling edges as to if they were wire edged or
hemmed or what. I forgot to ask what gauge aluminum you used for the engin
e cowling. We are ready to start on that this weekend.
Thank you for your help. We hope ours will soon look as nice as yours . V
ic Groah
Date: Wed=2C 6 Jan 2010 08:59:02 -0800
From: fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Cowlings Big Piet Picture
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 11:59:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your
plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corv
air and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (ma
ybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like y
ou with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but
it is easier with the right tools.)
A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. I
f anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or
corvair cowls with the scoops=2C send them my way.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today=2C but I hope to
get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)
From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 8:01:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Yep=2C they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to d
o.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday=2C December 30=2C 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
www.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using 1/16 cable
would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer is much like
the load on the wing. With the cable placement, one third of the load is
carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by the cables.
The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a very heavy
load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail moves the arm of
the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load is 90"x 36" or less
than 3240 sq .in. 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet 22.5 sq.
ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail loading = 225 lbs max load on the tail. Of
the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs. 170 lbs are carried
by the 4 wires. Four in tension on the fin, or four in tension on the
fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire would carry 170 lbs.
If you can hang off of one of your made up cables they are more than
strong enough.
And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate. These
wires should not be that tight. They stop the deflection of the stabilizer
and carry the load of the elevator. The back wire carries 1/2 the
stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that the front
one. One back wire would carry the load fine but would not triangulate the
stabilizer front to back.
And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful. I
have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint failures.
T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate. These breaks are most
often spruce to ply. The glue pulling off the ply with a few splinters. I
think I remember reading in their directions that it can be thinned to help
with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Roughing the ply
helps with this.
Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. lb for lb you should
the strongest part. The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to use a
part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor. Other wise
we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything. I still think SS bolts
are stronger than they need to be for this application. Harmonic vibration
is a separate problem to itself. Harmonic vibration and vibration are two
different things.
I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles. I can make
tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob of
money.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
The edges around engine have no seam or wire. We simpley cut with no finish
except buffing with scotchbright wheel to clean tool marks and remove cut
marks. The cowling bowel is welded. I will see if I can find pictures and p
ost to show how we did it.- We used 2023t3 .020 Alum. for the cowling. We
did bead the edages where the cowling laps and where it meets the plane. P
ictures work better I will see if I can find some and post. Oh thanks for t
he looks comments on the Big Peit !!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AFrom: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Thu, January 7, 2010 1:31:31 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List
: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0AI wrote yesterday about-the cow
ling edges as to-if they-were wire edged-or hemmed-or what.- I fo
rgot to ask what gauge aluminum you used for the engine cowling.- We are
ready to start on that this weekend.- =0A-=0AThank you-for your-hel
p.- We hope ours-will soon look as nice as yours .- Vic Groah=0A-
=0A________________________________=0ADate: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:59:02 -0800
=0AFrom: fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet
Oil Cooler locations?=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A=0A=0ACowlings
Big Piet Picture=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Mic
hael Groah =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent
: Wed, December 30, 2009 11:59:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair
Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A=0AI agree the engine looks great Barry.
- Do you have any cowling pics of your plane?- I'd like to see some pic
s of how you did the cowling with the corvair and scoops.- My plan has al
ways been to remote mount the oil cooler (maybe under the engine) and thus
I've made some cooling scoops already like you with the wired edge and all.
(you're right it's not that hard to do-but it is easier with the right too
ls.)=0A=0AA big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assi
stance.- If anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oi
l coolers or corvair cowls with the scoops, send them my way.- =0A=0AThan
ks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A(going to go help my father-in-law work on
his RV8A today, but I hope to get back in time to get a little Piet work i
n today)=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Barry Davis <bed@
mindspring.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30
, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler lo
spring.com>=0A=0AYep, they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really
very hard to do.=0ABarry =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pi
etenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff=0ABoatright=0ASent: Wednesday, December 30, 2
009 10:28 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-Li
st: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message post
ed by: Jeff =0A=0Awww.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> h
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=========
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AYour E-mail and More On-the-Go.
=========
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on the
wire is not vertical but at quite an angle. This will up the load quite a
bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come in
to play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: Thu=2C 7 Jan 2010 14:09:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using
1/16 cable would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer
is much like the load on the wing. With the cable placement=2C one
third of the load is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are
carried by the cables. The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I
will use a very heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on th
e
tail moves the arm of the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load
is 90"x 36" or less than 3240 sq
.in. 3240/144= less than 22.5
sq.feet 22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail
loading = 225 lbs max load on the tail. Of the
225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs. 170
lbs are carried by the 4 wires. Four in tension on
the fin=2C or four in tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor o
f
4 than each wire would carry 170 lbs. If you can hang off of one of
your made up cables they are more than strong enough.
And for vibration=2C a tight wire is much more likely to
vibrate. These wires should not be that tight. They stop the
deflection of the stabilizer and carry the load of the elevator.
The back wire carries 1/2 the stabilizer plus the elevator=2C so the back w
ire
carries more load that the front one. One back wire would carry the load
fine but would not triangulate the stabilizer front to back.
And while I'm on my soap box=2C I think T-88 is not
so wonderful. I have made multiple test breaks and have seen at
least four joint failures. T-88 can lay on top of the would and not
penetrate. These breaks are most often spruce to ply. The glue
pulling off the ply with a few splinters. I think I remember reading in
their directions that it can be thinned to help with penetration=2C but the
n you
lose that nice filet. Roughing the ply helps with this.
Rambo=2C I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. lb for lb you
should the strongest part. The way things are engineered on an aircraft is
to use a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety
factor. Other wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything.
I still think SS bolts are stronger than they need to be for this
application. Harmonic vibration is a separate problem to itself.
Harmonic vibration and vibration are two different things.
I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles. I
can make tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a
gob
of money.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
The load on the cables is in pure tension, the fitting is at an angle, the
cables are straight.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Steve Glass wrote:
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 2:33 PM
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on the
wire is not vertical but at quite an angle.- This will up the load quite
a bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come in
to play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:09:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
- At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo.- I think using 1/16
cable would be more than strong enough.- The load on the stabilizer is-
much like the load on the wing.- With the cable placement, one third of t
he load is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by
the cables.- The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a
very heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail move
s the arm of the fuselage about the C. G.-- The sq. ft. load is--
--- -90"x 36"-or -less than 3240 sq .in.-------
- 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet---- 22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per
sq. ft. tail loading-=- 225 lbs max load on the tail.---Of -
the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage-or 85 lbs.--- 170 lbs-ar
e carried by the 4 wires.---Four in-tension on the fin, or-four i
n tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire w
ould carry 170 lbs.-- If you can hang off
of one of your made up cables they are more than strong enough.
-
--And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate.- Th
ese wires should not be that tight.- They stop the deflection-of the st
abilizer and carry the load-of the elevator.- The back wire carries 1/2
the stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that
the front one.-One back wire would carry the load fine but would not tria
ngulate the stabilizer front to back.
-
----And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful.
-- I have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint f
ailures.- T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate.- These br
eaks are most often spruce to ply.- The glue pulling off the ply with a f
ew splinters. I think I remember reading -in their directions that it can
be thinned to help with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Ro
ughing- the ply helps with this.
-
- Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. - lb for lb you should
the strongest part.- The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to
use-a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor.- O
ther wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything.- I still think
SS bolts are stronger than they need to be for this application.- Harmon
ic vibration is a separate problem to itself.- Harmonic vibration and vib
ration are two different things.
-
- I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles.-I can m
ake tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob
of money.-
-
Howdy<="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronicshref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.c
om/con================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
| From: | hvandervoo(at)aol.com |
My Piet has 1/16 cables for tail bracing it more than strong enough.
Like Howdy, I calculated the load but in reverse, I started with max cable
strength and worked it out from there.
My conclusion was that all the wood will break long before any of the 1/16
cable would.
Close to 100 Flying hours no problems noticed
Hans
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on th
e wire is not vertical but at quite an angle. This will up the load quite
a bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come
into play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:09:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo. I think using 1/16 cab
le would be more than strong enough. The load on the stabilizer is much
like the load on the wing. With the cable placement, one third of the lo
ad is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by the
cables. The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a very
heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail moves
the arm of the fuselage about the C. G. The sq. ft. load is 90"x
36" or less than 3240 sq .in. 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet
22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per sq. ft. tail loading = 225 lbs max load
on the tail. Of the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage or 85 lbs.
170 lbs are carried by the 4 wires. Four in tension on the fin, or fo
ur in tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each
wire would carry 170 lbs. If you can hang off of one of your made up ca
bles they are more than strong enough.
And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate. These
wires should not be that tight. They stop the deflection of the stabiliz
er and carry the load of the elevator. The back wire carries 1/2 the stab
ilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that the fron
t one. One back wire would carry the load fine but would not triangulate
the stabilizer front to back.
And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful. I ha
ve made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint failures.
T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate. These breaks are mo
st often spruce to ply. The glue pulling off the ply with a few splinters
. I think I remember reading in their directions that it can be thinned
to help with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Roughing th
e ply helps with this.
Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. lb for lb you should th
e strongest part. The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to use
a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor. Other
wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything. I still think SS
bolts are stronger than they need to be for this application. Harmonic
vibration is a separate problem to itself. Harmonic vibration and vibrat
ion are two different things.
I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles. I can make
tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob of
money.
Howdy
http://www.matronicshref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
www.matronics.com/con================
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Steve,
You are right. You would have to add the compression load of the
stabilizer strut to the 170 lbs. The lower the angle the higher this
compression. My point is, the flight loads are low on the stabilizer. 1/16
cable
has a breaking strength of 480 lbs. lots of margin.
All this being said I'm using 3/32 on my Scout. I thought the
question was, is it strong enough?
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Copy Hans, thank you.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, hvandervoo(at)aol.com wrote:
From: hvandervoo(at)aol.com <hvandervoo(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 3:04 PM
My Piet has 1/16 cables for tail bracing it more than strong enough.
-
Like Howdy, I calculated the load but in reverse, I started with max cable
strength and worked it out from there.
My conclusion was that all the wood will break long before any of the 1/16
cable would.
-
Close to 100 Flying hours no problems noticed
-
Hans
-
NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glass <redsglass(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 7, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
#yiv2121107337 #AOLMsgPart_2_c9939857-dc46-4d20-903d-0407c253d2a4 td{color:
black;}#yiv2121107337 #AOLMsgPart_2_c9939857-dc46-4d20-903d-0407c253d2a4 .h
mmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv2121107337 #AOLMsgPart_2_c9939857-dc
46-4d20-903d-0407c253d2a4 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana
;}
Hi
Just quickly read this post and wondered if you had figured the load on the
wire is not vertical but at quite an angle.- This will up the load quite
a bit.
Just thinking about the load on sailboat shrouds and how the angles come in
to play.
Steve in Maine
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:09:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
- At the risk of "scarring the hell" out of Rambo.- I think using 1/16
cable would be more than strong enough.- The load on the stabilizer is-
much like the load on the wing.- With the cable placement, one third of t
he load is carried by the fuselage and the other two thirds are carried by
the cables.- The loading of the tail is less than the wing. I will use a
very heavy load of 10 lb. sq. ft. for my example. The load on the tail move
s the arm of the fuselage about the C. G.-- The sq. ft. load is--
--- -90"x 36"-or -less than 3240 sq .in.-------
- 3240/144= less than 22.5 sq.feet---- 22.5 sq. ft. x 10 lb per
sq. ft. tail loading-=- 225 lbs max load on the tail.---Of -
the 225 lbs. 1/3 carried by the fuselage-or 85 lbs.--- 170 lbs-ar
e carried by the 4 wires.---Four in-tension on the fin, or-four i
n tension on the fuselage. If you use a safety factor of 4 than each wire w
ould carry 170 lbs.-- If you can hang off
of one of your made up cables they are more than strong enough.
-
--And for vibration, a tight wire is much more likely to vibrate.- Th
ese wires should not be that tight.- They stop the deflection-of the st
abilizer and carry the load-of the elevator.- The back wire carries 1/2
the stabilizer plus the elevator, so the back wire carries more load that
the front one.-One back wire would carry the load fine but would not tria
ngulate the stabilizer front to back.
-
----And while I'm on my soap box, I think T-88 is not so wonderful.
-- I have made multiple test breaks and have seen at least four joint f
ailures.- T-88 can lay on top of the would and not penetrate.- These br
eaks are most often spruce to ply.- The glue pulling off the ply with a f
ew splinters. I think I remember reading -in their directions that it can
be thinned to help with penetration, but then you lose that nice filet. Ro
ughing- the ply helps with this.
-
- Rambo, I was not saying to use a grade 3 bolt. - lb for lb you should
the strongest part.- The way things are engineered on an aircraft is to
use-a part that is strong enough to do the job plus a safety factor.- O
ther wise we would be using 3/4 inch bolts for everything.- I still think
SS bolts are stronger than they need to be for this application.- Harmon
ic vibration is a separate problem to itself.- Harmonic vibration and vib
ration are two different things.
-
- I really like Malcolm Morrison's way of saving 8 turnbuckles.-I can m
ake tail cables several times to get the right length and still save a gob
of money.-
-
Howdyhttp://www.matronicshref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">htt
p://www.matronics.com/con================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Howdy, I am oh so very pleased that you replied. Not because you agree with
me, but because rather then just make a statement, you back it up in a way
that even I can understand it.
-
On the SS bolts...I understand bolt fatigue due to vibration. But I am not
sure how that relates to-a bolt embedded in spruce and plywood. I underst
and,-IN GENERAL, SS rates lower then cad plated, but I am not sure that a
SS bolt with a tail brace fitting attached-under the bolt head while the
rest of the bolt is embedded in wood with a nut on the other side on a 100
MPH plane would sheer, crack, snap, pull through the wood, etc. To my uned
ucated eyes in this matter, I would agree SS would work, but I just know. I
am at the mercy of those who do.
-
On tail bracing and vibration...it seems that tail vibration is common-an
d to some enough to cause concern when they-check 6.- I am curious why
this has not been addressed and a solution reached so we can all have a-s
olid tail. (no jokes, please-8^[) )--What effect would separating the
cables at the rudder top due as mentioned in an earlier post? How about lo
wering the cables to about mid way on the rudder and bringing them in close
r to the fuselage on the horizontal? This would give us shorter cables, (ma
ybe less cable flutter) and rather then have-a tail fitting, 3 feet of-
H. stab then the fuselage attachment, we have 1.5 feet of H. stab., the cab
le fitting, another 1.5 feet and then the fuselage attachment.-Now you do
n't have that long 3 feet of stab to twist and flex. (but maybe now that ou
ter 1.5 feet would snap off if the cable was moved in...?)
-
ANYHOO, sorry to blab, but I ponder things all the time...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Thanks Ryan. This entire thread sums up why I come to this list. My main go
al is to see if anyone here has flown with the ideas I post about on their
plane. (Really, I'm here to piss people off...) I get some replies that rai
se concerns that I never thought of. Others-branch off into RELATED quest
ions that I would have been asking later down the road.
-
For those that contacted me off list with their real world experience in th
eir plane, I thank you as well.
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
Now that IS refreshing to hear from real, live flying examples using 1/16" tail
bracing
cables.
And Mike P. as long as your cable swaging method is acceptable/proven nicopress
sleeves
or other then you're okay but if you're applying some unproven methods that might
be
your weak point or a point of dissimilar metal corrosion. Just a thought, not
trying
to pee on anyone's campfire. (though that is more fun than walking back to the
house
and using the bathroom some nights.....)
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Speedbrake,
I think that there would be minimal vibration on the bolt. I think the
wood it passes through would dampen any vibration. Now the tab is a
different story. I just feel that a wire that has a harmonic vibration could
fatigue the fitting over time. Harmonic vibration is a funny thing. a small
change in speed/load/RPM will make it come and go, but at just the right
speed it adds force, just like someone on a trampoline, each jump adds
force/height. Changing the location of the cable is not a good idea. Their
placement, even though thru trial and error, are where they are out of need.
The one thing that could be done is to make each cable a slightly
different length. that way each one would have a different harmonic. I have
seen
small V's added to power lines to stop this harmonic. Maybe you have seen
them too. I guess It would work on a plane that was having a problem. I
wouldn't do anything unless I had a problem first. I think a design change
could be made using tubing for the cable. It should cost less (no
turnbuckles) but weigh more. This would not vibrate at Piet flight speeds. Many
of
aircraft us this method.
Ryan,
You could be right about me and T-88 usage. I do remember my shop
being in the 60's in the winter.
The first break was an accident. My table saw jammed and sent a piece of
wood into my wing. This broke out two ribs . These were not stick ribs
but 1/4 ply to a box spar. The joint was 5 in. long. To my surprise the
joints came apart with all the T-88 on one side, mostly on the ribs. I know
others love T-88.
I would just suggest doing a little destructive testing. This should be
done with each mixed batch. There is always a little leftover.
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Copy that Howdy. I understand more and more as I visit this list.
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, VAHOWDY(at)aol.com wrote:
From: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com <VAHOWDY(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 4:32 PM
Speedbrake,
-- I think that there would be minimal vibration on the bolt.- I thin
k the wood it passes through would dampen any vibration.- Now the tab is
a different story.- I just feel that a wire that has a harmonic vibration
could fatigue the fitting over time.- Harmonic vibration is a funny thin
g.- a small change in speed/load/RPM will make it-come and go,-but at
just the right speed it adds force, just like someone on a trampoline, eac
h jump adds force/height.- Changing the location of the cable is not a go
od idea.- Their placement, even though thru trial and error, are where th
ey are out of need.- The one thing that could be done is to make each cab
le a slightly -different length.- that way each one would have a differ
ent harmonic.-- I have seen small V's- added to power lines to stop t
his harmonic.-Maybe you have seen them too.-I guess It would work on a
plane that was having a problem.- I wouldn't do anything unless I had a p
roblem
first.- I think a design change could be made using tubing for the cable
.- It should cost less (no turnbuckles) but weigh more.- This would not
vibrate at Piet flight speeds.-Many of aircraft us this method.
-
Ryan,
-- You could be right about me and T-88 usage.- I do remember my shop
being in the 60's in the winter.
The first break was an accident.- My table saw jammed and sent a piece of
wood into my wing.- This broke out-two ribs-.- These were not stic
k ribs but 1/4 ply to a box spar.-The joint was 5 in. long. To my surpris
e the joints came apart with all the T-88 on one side, mostly on the ribs.
- I know others love T-88.
- I would just suggest doing a little destructive testing.- This should
be done with each mixed batch.-There is always a little leftover.
-
Howdy
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
Stainless steel bolts will have a very low yield strength, less than
half the yield strength of steel AN bolts.
I sure as heck wouldn't use them in a structural application.
They should only be used where specified by the designer.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM
....I understand, IN GENERAL, SS rates lower then cad plated,
but I am not sure that a SS bolt with a tail brace fitting attached
under the bolt head while the rest of the bolt is embedded in wood with
a nut on the other side on a 100 MPH plane would sheer, crack, snap,
pull through the wood, etc. To my uneducated eyes in this matter, I
would agree SS would work, but I just know. I am at the mercy of those
who do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | vertical compass |
Does anyone know of any reason why a vertical compass couldn't be mounted at a
slight angle? I'm thinking of down on the bulkhead in front of the stick where
it'll fit inside the "V" formed by the aileron cables. I'd need it angled up
a bit so I could see it though.
I had put a small one in the front panel but am starting to think that it might
be too hard to read and didn't make room on my pilot's panel, so i'm thinking
of alternatives.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/16" tail brace cables |
I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney- type I rotary swager...same de
al that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies, (ball and shank) f
itting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole kit.-I have used th
is exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once worked at.- I also hav
e all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels, clevis pins, cotter pins
and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware as opposed to the safety wire
ones.
). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few other sources
, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
-
I hope to use this on all the cables-on/in the plane...we'll see if it wo
rks out.
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
In one of my previous replies I said that I was here to piss people off. That was
a TYPO! (Glad I looked at in in the forum...) I meant to say I am NOT here
to piss people off! (Although that may happen from time to time.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tail bracing |
I have concluded that SS hardware will be only used in non-structural areas
. (finally)-
--- On Thu, 1/7/10, David Paule wrote:
From: David Paule <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail bracing
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 5:05 PM
Stainless steel bolts will have a very low yield strength, less than half t
he yield strength of steel AN bolts.
-
I sure as heck wouldn't use them in a structural application.
-
They should only be used where specified by the designer.
-
David Paule
-
-
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:28 PM
-
....I understand,-IN GENERAL, SS rates lower then cad plated, but I am no
t sure that a SS bolt with a tail brace fitting attached-under the bolt h
ead while the rest of the bolt is embedded in wood with a nut on the other
side on a 100 MPH plane would sheer, crack, snap, pull through the wood, et
c. To my uneducated eyes in this matter, I would agree SS would work, but I
just know. I am at the mercy of those who do.
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | 1/16" tail brace cables |
Speaking of Nicopress Sleeves...Are there areas where people are using two
for an extra margin of safety?
Jack
DSM
Blizzard here going to -19 tonight. The ONLY thing this freaking weather is
good for is working on my Pietenpol in the warm family room.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Thank you so very much for your help. We would not have been as far as we
are without the help on all you Piet guys!!!
Date: Thu=2C 7 Jan 2010 11:31:51 -0800
From: fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
The edges around engine have no seam or wire. We simpley cut with no finish
except buffing with scotchbright wheel to clean tool marks and remove cut
marks. The cowling bowel is welded. I will see if I can find pictures and p
ost to show how we did it. We used 2023t3 .020 Alum. for the cowling. We d
id bead the edages where the cowling laps and where it meets the plane. Pic
tures work better I will see if I can find some and post. Oh thanks for the
looks comments on the Big Peit !!
From: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thu=2C January 7=2C 2010 1:31:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I wrote yesterday about the cowling edges as to if they were wire edged or
hemmed or what. I forgot to ask what gauge aluminum you used for the engin
e cowling. We are ready to start on that this weekend.
Thank you for your help. We hope ours will soon look as nice as yours . V
ic Groah
Date: Wed=2C 6 Jan 2010 08:59:02 -0800
From: fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Cowlings Big Piet Picture
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 11:59:59 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
I agree the engine looks great Barry. Do you have any cowling pics of your
plane? I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with the corv
air and scoops. My plan has always been to remote mount the oil cooler (ma
ybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops already like y
ou with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard to do-but
it is easier with the right tools.)
A big thank you to everyone who has responded to my call for assistance. I
f anyone comes up with other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or
corvair cowls with the scoops=2C send them my way.
Thanks
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(going to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today=2C but I hope to
get back in time to get a little Piet work in today)
From: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Wed=2C December 30=2C 2009 8:01:44 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
Yep=2C they have the wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to d
o.
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Wednesday=2C December 30=2C 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
www.aeroelectric.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List========
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.
http://www.matronics.com/c================
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free=2C trusted and rich email service.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Another HINT video |
For those who care, HINT Video #4 Trailing Edge is now available at karetakeraero.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/16" tail brace cables |
SS cable wears out quicker than galvanized.
Some time ago, I asked the very knowledgeable AI who was giving my plane
its annual that year, if I should change out my cables. At the time,
older 180s were having cable problems. He confirmed that I had
galvanized and said to leave them, that it was only the stainless ones
that had problems. The plane is now 55 years old and the cables are
completely acceptable.
Stick with the galvanized.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 1/16" tail brace cables
I understand Mike. I am using the Kearney type I rotary
swager...same deal that A. Spruce sells for $6,000. I have all the dies,
(ball and shank) fitting/cable guide, go/no gauges, manual... the whole
kit. I have used this exact machine many years ago in a hangar I once
worked at. I also have all of the MS21252 cable terminations, barrels,
clevis pins, cotter pins and clips. (I am using the clip type hardware
as opposed to the safety wire ones.
). I will be using SS cable. According to A. Spruce and a few
other sources, the 7X7 SS rates the same as the galvanized.
I hope to use this on all the cables on/in the plane...we'll see
if it works out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 80th Anniversary article in national magazine |
OK - this may be hype but my brother has been contacted about some of his p
hotos of Brodhead 2009. A national publication (who shall rename nameless
for now) is interested in using some of his photos in an article about the
80th anniversary of the design. They may be interested in stories as well.
What I'm asking is for people who were at Brodhead to take a look at the ph
otos of your aircraft. Let me know if you have any issues with them being
used in a national publication. If not=2C we'll assume you're all for it (
like I would be if I had a finished airplane).
I will update the list as we find out more about this article. The pics ca
n be found at the following link. Enjoy and of course=2C feel free to comm
ent.
http://http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-ann
i/
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine |
This link will work better:
http://www.public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni
/
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine
OK - this may be hype but my brother has been contacted about some of
his photos of Brodhead 2009. A national publication (who shall rename
nameless for now) is interested in using some of his photos in an
article about the 80th anniversary of the design. They may be
interested in stories as well.
What I'm asking is for people who were at Brodhead to take a look at
the photos of your aircraft. Let me know if you have any issues with
them being used in a national publication. If not, we'll assume you're
all for it (like I would be if I had a finished airplane).
I will update the list as we find out more about this article. The
pics can be found at the following link. Enjoy and of course, feel free
to comment.
http://http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-a
nni/
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | 80th Anniversary article in national magazine |
New link - sorry...
http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-anni/
From: tmbrant(at)msn.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary article in national magazine
Date: Thu=2C 7 Jan 2010 22:45:47 -0600
OK - this may be hype but my brother has been contacted about some of his p
hotos of Brodhead 2009. A national publication (who shall rename nameless
for now) is interested in using some of his photos in an article about the
80th anniversary of the design. They may be interested in stories as well.
What I'm asking is for people who were at Brodhead to take a look at the ph
otos of your aircraft. Let me know if you have any issues with them being
used in a national publication. If not=2C we'll assume you're all for it (
like I would be if I had a finished airplane).
I will update the list as we find out more about this article. The pics ca
n be found at the following link. Enjoy and of course=2C feel free to comm
ent.
http://http://public.fotki.com/dwbrant/fancies-of-flight/pietenpol-80th-ann
i/
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | article is not about 80th Anniversary |
The article will appear in March/April issue of Smithsonian Air & Space and
I contributed to the
author and it is my understanding that this is NOT about the 80th gathering
at all but merely a great
overview of the Pietenpol with photos.
With that said, if anyone has high resolution photos of nose-on, I mean dea
d NOSE on views of
Pietenpols please send them to me by Monday morning. Likewise if you have
any aerial photos of the
Pietenpol gathering at Brodhead that show a good number of planes on the gr
ound, those would
also be appreciated.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | article is not about 80th Anniversary |
Mike - thanks for the clarification - wasn't sure if this was real or not.
Tom B.
From: michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov
Date: Fri=2C 8 Jan 2010 06:44:26 -0600
Subject: Pietenpol-List: article is not about 80th Anniversary
The article will appear in March/April issue of Smithsonian Air
& Space and I contributed to the
author and it is my understanding that this is NOT about the 80th
gathering at all but merely a great
overview of the Pietenpol with photos.
With that said=2C if anyone has high resolution photos of nose-on=2C
I mean dead NOSE on views of
Pietenpols please send them to me by Monday morning.
Likewise if you have any aerial photos of the
Pietenpol gathering at Brodhead that show a good number of
planes on the ground=2C those would
also be appreciated.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations? |
Yea, This is great place for good info, It has helped use greatly !!=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.c
om>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, January 7, 2010 9:10:36
PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A
Thank you so very much for your help.--We would not have been as far as
we are without the help on all you Piet guys!!!=0A-=0A__________________
______________=0ADate: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 11:31:51 -0800=0AFrom: fmetcalf@bell
south.net=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A=0A=0AThe edges around engine have no
seam or wire. We simpley cut with no finish except buffing with scotchbrig
ht wheel to clean tool marks and remove cut marks. The cowling bowel is wel
ded. I will see if I can find pictures and post to show how we did it.- W
e used 2023t3 .020 Alum. for the cowling. We did bead the edages where the
cowling laps and where it meets the plane. Pictures work better I will see
if I can find some and post. Oh thanks for the looks comments on the Big Pe
it !!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: V Groah <vgroa
h(at)hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, January 7, 2
010 1:31:31 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locat
ions?=0A=0AI wrote yesterday about-the cowling edges as to-if they-we
re wire edged-or hemmed-or what.- I forgot to ask what gauge aluminum
you used for the engine cowling.- We are ready to start on that this wee
kend.- =0A-=0AThank you-for your-help.- We hope ours-will soon
look as nice as yours .- Vic Groah=0A-=0A______________________________
__=0ADate: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 08:59:02 -0800=0AFrom: fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net=0A
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0ATo: piete
npol-list(at)matronics.com=0A=0A=0ACowlings Big Piet Picture=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 11:59:59
AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A
=0AI agree the engine looks great Barry.- Do you have any cowling pics of
your plane?- I'd like to see some pics of how you did the cowling with t
he corvair and scoops.- My plan has always been to remote mount the oil c
ooler (maybe under the engine) and thus I've made some cooling scoops alrea
dy like you with the wired edge and all. (you're right it's not that hard t
o do-but it is easier with the right tools.)=0A=0AA big thank you to everyo
ne who has responded to my call for assistance.- If anyone comes up with
other pics or ideas or remote mounted oil coolers or corvair cowls with the
scoops, send them my way.- =0A=0AThanks=0A=0AMike Groah=0ATulare CA=0A(g
oing to go help my father-in-law work on his RV8A today, but I hope to get
back in time to get a little Piet work in today)=0A=0A=0A__________________
______________=0AFrom: Barry Davis <bed(at)mindspring.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-lis
t(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, December 30, 2009 8:01:44 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pi
etenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locations?=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List me
ssage posted by: "Barry Davis" =0A=0AYep, they have the
wire rolled in on the edges. Not really very hard to do.=0ABarry =0A=0A---
--Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff=0AB
oatright=0ASent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:28 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list
@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair Piet Oil Cooler locat
c.com< * HomebuiltHELP www.howtocri--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?Pietenpol-List==========0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AYour E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. S
ign up now. =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/c===========
=======0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AHotm
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vertical compass |
Douwe,
I mounted mine inside the center section on a hinged bracket so it can
fold up out of the way.
Regards,
Tom Bernie
GN-1
Gloucester, Mass
On Jan 7, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any reason why a vertical compass couldn't be
mounted at a slight angle? I'm thinking of down on the bulkhead in
front of the stick where it'll fit inside the "V" formed by the aileron
cables. I'd need it angled up a bit so I could see it though.
>
> I had put a small one in the front panel but am starting to think that
it might be too hard to read and didn't make room on my pilot's panel,
so i'm thinking of alternatives.
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage Ash Cross Struts |
Could use some help here. Drawing 1 specifies =BE x 2=94, Drawing 3
says 1 x 2=94
for the front and =BE x 2=94 for the back. May I use =BE x 2=94 for
both? Also, am
I correct in placing the centerline of the front cross strut 12=94 back
from
the front of the fuselage? I=92m building the long version. Doing this
makes
it appear it will be =BD=94 behind where it looks to be in drawing 3
showing the
cross section of the longeron, rear set cross strut, front cross strut
and
ends of the ash cross struts.
Thanks!
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Ash Cross Struts |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Jack it looks to me like you would center up over where the landing gear attaches.
I am just about to that point myself and was going to ask the same question.
Here in sunny Florida it has been too cold to do any gluing. Only one day since
Christmas has it been warm enough to glue.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280860#280860
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | The Airplane as Art - Gene Rambo's Pietenpol |
Howdy Pieters,
I visited with Gene Rambo last weekend to see his Piet under
construction. I took my sister along to take some photos. I'm working
on a short article about Gene's Piet for www.taildraggersinc.com, but
it's not ready yet. In the meantime, I wanted to share the following
photo as a "teaser".
If it doesn't come through as an attachment, just go to
www.taildraggersinc.com - it's right there on the home page.
I've started a little forum on the site, too. Please register and post
your comments about the photo (or anything else that strikes your fancy,
just keep it aviation related, please). Once the article and the rest
of the photos are ready, I'll let ya'll know.
Oh, and be warned - I'm always on the lookout for new planes and
projects to photograph and write about! You or someone you know might
be next! :)
Thanks,
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Well=2C my father-in-law died today after a 2 year fight with cancer. He h
as been a true inspiration and he will be dearly missed. Him and his wife
built one of the wing ribs for my project and I asked them to sign it. A f
ew months back I asked him to think about something significant in his life
relating to numbers and letters. I wanted him to be remembered by the tai
l numbers on my Piet (if I ever finish it). He wasn't able to come up with
much but he suggested I use the date of his death along with his initials.
So - how does 19MR sound? Unfortunately N19MR is taken... So - any sug
gestions how I can work this into the number? I tried 019MR and it said th
at N-number is invalid - does that mean that it's not taken??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net> |
Tom Sorry about your father in law. An N number can't start with a "0".
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspiration
Well, my father-in-law died today after a 2 year fight with cancer.
He has been a true inspiration and he will be dearly missed. Him and
his wife built one of the wing ribs for my project and I asked them to
sign it. A few months back I asked him to think about something
significant in his life relating to numbers and letters. I wanted him
to be remembered by the tail numbers on my Piet (if I ever finish it).
He wasn't able to come up with much but he suggested I use the date of
his death along with his initials. So - how does 19MR sound?
Unfortunately N19MR is taken... So - any suggestions how I can work
this into the number? I tried 019MR and it said that N-number is
invalid - does that mean that it's not taken??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
Tom,
I'm sorry to hear of your loss; you have my deepest sympathy.
An N-number cannot begin with a zero, which is why 'invalid' was
returned on the search I think. The number 1910R (1/9/10 with your
FIL's last name first letter) was assigned in 1988 to a balloon that
appears out of service. You could try contacting the owner to see if
he'd be willing to relinquish it.
EDWARDS KENNETH W
2901 HAINE DR
HARLINGEN
TX
78550
HTH,
Jeff
>Well, my father-in-law died today after a 2 year fight with cancer.
>He has been a true inspiration and he will be dearly missed. Him
>and his wife built one of the wing ribs for my project and I asked
>them to sign it. A few months back I asked him to think about
>something significant in his life relating to numbers and letters.
>I wanted him to be remembered by the tail numbers on my Piet (if I
>ever finish it). He wasn't able to come up with much but he
>suggested I use the date of his death along with his initials. So -
>how does 19MR sound? Unfortunately N19MR is taken... So - any
>suggestions how I can work this into the number? I tried 019MR and
>it said that N-number is invalid - does that mean that it's not
>taken??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com> |
109MR seems available. 1/09/FIL initials
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280877#280877
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Ash Cross Struts |
Jack,
The front spar, front lift strut both get more load, and transfer it to the
front ash cross-piece. What's more, in landings, the front main LG strut (I
think) gets more compression force (requiring thickness), while the aft ash cross-piece
gets more shear. Thus the aft member has the same width (for shear),
but can have less thickness. I'd go per the plans for different thicknesses.
Just my 2 cents.
Otherwise, your location issue, it seems as though the ash members should
be centered on the hardware, thus centering the load to them.
Pls give my regards to Suzie.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack
Sent: Jan 9, 2010 4:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Ash Cross Struts
Could use some help here. Drawing 1 specifies x 2, Drawing 3 says 1 x 2 for the
front and x 2 for the back. May I use x 2 for both? Also, am I correct
in placing the centerline of the front cross strut 12 back from the front of the
fuselage? Im building the long version. Doing this makes it appear it will
be behind where it looks to be in drawing 3 showing the cross section of the
longeron, rear set cross strut, front cross strut and ends of the ash cross
struts.
Thanks!
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Weight & balance matrix |
Some time ago someone put together a matrix showing different combinations
of weight, engines, fuselage size, etc. Can someone point me in the right
direction to find this?
Thanks
PS Thanks for the comments on the ash cross members. Jerry come on up to
Iowa to understand cold. :-)
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com> |
Sorry about your father in law Tom. How about N194(as in for) MR, it's
open.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 10:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspiration
Well, my father-in-law died today after a 2 year fight with cancer.
He has been a true inspiration and he will be dearly missed. Him and
his wife built one of the wing ribs for my project and I asked them to
sign it. A few months back I asked him to think about something
significant in his life relating to numbers and letters. I wanted him
to be remembered by the tail numbers on my Piet (if I ever finish it).
He wasn't able to come up with much but he suggested I use the date of
his death along with his initials. So - how does 19MR sound?
Unfortunately N19MR is taken... So - any suggestions how I can work
this into the number? I tried 019MR and it said that N-number is
invalid - does that mean that it's not taken??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
I need some advice. My cousin bought an avid sport ELSA. Nice little plane. He
intends on learning to fly in it.
The guy who he has selected to teach him is requireing that he have the plane annualled.
(it was annualed about a month ago by the buildier.) and that he have
full coverage on insureance. My cousin has not found anyone ready to insure
him. He has 10 hours 20 years ago. My cousin has been told that he has to get
an FCC liscence. is this a for the radio or him?
I told him to ask the instructor why he needed a new annual. The plane is legal.
Why and what kind of insurance is the instructor requiring? I told him to approach
the EAA about insurance. Also I don't think he requires a FCC ticket. Maybe
they are talking about the radio itself, but he has sent it back to the MFGR
for an update and they should provide that.
Steve D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Stapleton" <foto(at)alaska.net> |
Hello,
If the aircraft is over 100 hours since last inspection he will need a
100 hour inspection, if it is out of annual he will need that too.
He should look at his Operation limitations and make sure that the specs
read the aircraft can be used for instruction. Also if he has
"unlimited" on his airworthiness certificate. If not he needs to go to
his local FSDO and get a new one issued (SEE EAA.ORG on Sport Pilot
Issues) if he doesn't get it changed by Jan. 31, 2010 (this month) he
will have a lawn ornament that can't be legally flown.
He does not need to get an FCC license if he gets a Sport Pilot student
pilot license or a standard category student pilot license from his
local FSDO.
The insurance is always an issue depending on where you live, type of
aircraft, and where your practice area is as well as if, on/off airport
landings are allowed.
Sounds to me like the CFI is requiring these things to make sure he and
the aircraft are certain to continue.
RS
Rob Stapleton, Advanced Ground Instructor
Anchorage, AK
(907) 230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dortch,
Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My cousin's LSA
I need some advice. My cousin bought an avid sport ELSA. Nice little
plane. He intends on learning to fly in it.
The guy who he has selected to teach him is requireing that he have the
plane annualled. (it was annualed about a month ago by the buildier.)
and that he have full coverage on insureance. My cousin has not found
anyone ready to insure him. He has 10 hours 20 years ago. My cousin has
been told that he has to get an FCC liscence. is this a for the radio or
him?
I told him to ask the instructor why he needed a new annual. The plane
is legal. Why and what kind of insurance is the instructor requiring? I
told him to approach the EAA about insurance. Also I don't think he
requires a FCC ticket. Maybe they are talking about the radio itself,
but he has sent it back to the MFGR for an update and they should
provide that.
Steve D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: My cousin's LSA |
He might want to talk to a different CFI. If he owns the plane the
annual is not needed. The 100 hour rule applies if the plane is used
commercially (a rental). I also do not believe that a FCC license is
required any more. I think that they accept the plane's tail number as
the license. In motion insurance is probably a good idea but last I
knew it was not required by federal law and is not required by state law
here in NY. It may be a state requirement. Shop around on the
insurance - there is a huge difference in rates.
Dave
Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
>
> I need some advice. My cousin bought an avid sport ELSA. Nice little plane. He
intends on learning to fly in it.
>
> The guy who he has selected to teach him is requireing that he have the plane
annualled. (it was annualed about a month ago by the buildier.) and that he have
full coverage on insureance. My cousin has not found anyone ready to insure
him. He has 10 hours 20 years ago. My cousin has been told that he has to get
an FCC liscence. is this a for the radio or him?
>
> I told him to ask the instructor why he needed a new annual. The plane is legal.
Why and what kind of insurance is the instructor requiring? I told him to
approach the EAA about insurance. Also I don't think he requires a FCC ticket.
Maybe they are talking about the radio itself, but he has sent it back to the
MFGR for an update and they should provide that.
>
> Steve D.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Last week I borrowed a Nicopress tool from a fellow builder in order to fabricate
my drag/anti-drag cables. With minimal practice, making these splices was
a relatively easy task. I have returned the tool because someone else was waiting
to borrow them, but I have been considering purchasing a pair of my own.
As we all know, these tools can be quite expensive, but I've read several recommendations
on the Lowes and Home Depot models. I was skeptical at first because
these items are not the same "Made in the USA" quality found in an authentic
Nicopress tool, but for $28, I figured I'd give em a try.
I found a thread from this list that was posted back in 2003 by DJ Vegh and followed up by Chris Bopka, Cy Galley and others (see it here http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list/Digest.Pietenpol-List.2003-07-13.txt). In that thread, they discussed the GO measurements found in a Nicopress gauge. They are listed as...
Size - Range (Chris Bopka posted as found in EAA Aircraft Volume One File Number
6 on Aircraft Homebuilding Tips, page 34)
1/16" sleeve - .190-.195" go dimension
3/32" sleeve - .255-.265" go dimension
1/8" sleeve - .343-.353" go dimension
5/32" sleeve - .380-.390" go dimension
Using the Home Depot tool straight off the shelf, my first crimp on a 1/8" cable/sleeve
combo was .318" (way too tight). After a minor adjustment, my second
crimp was .355" (slightly too big). Another adjustment and I was able to squeeze
a .345" crimp. I grabbed another sleeve and proceeded to squeeze 3 more
crimps right around .345" (+/- .0005") as measured with my calipers (see photo
below).
My question is... if I can consistently crimp sleeves to these dimensions with
the $28 tool, can anyone give a good argument as to why I shouldn't use them?
Seriously, am I missing something? If so, I'd like to know before I make any
flying cables.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280942#280942
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1100265_676.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1100267_151.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/firstcable_802.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Mark what is used don't really matter. The end result is what counts. I would fly
that crimp. Good looking job.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280946#280946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pfeifer Sport plans |
Ken,
Yes, I can burn a copy of the disc for you. I've been asking for $5 to
cover the cost of mailing. I'll try to get the disc copied and mailed
this week.
Darrel
vman1922 wrote:
>
> If the Pfeifer Sport plans CD is still available I would like a copy.
>
> Thanks,
> Ken Kamp
> 13 Laurel Hill Dr.
> Quarryville, PA 17566
>
> email: kkamp72(at)comcast.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280281#280281
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Mark,
The important thing is that you are checking the crimps, and getting consistent
results. As long as you keep doing that, the $28 tool should be just fine. Because
it is made to be sold for a lower price, the quality is expectedly lower
than the official tool, BUT, for the number of crimps you will need to do on
a Piet, it should do just fine. I would think if you were planning to do crimping
on a regular, ongoing basis, the "real deal" would be a good investment, but
for one project, the budget tool is the way to go. Just keep checking each
crimp as you go.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280960#280960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: My cousin's LSA |
I don't think an FCC license is required anymore for an aircraft transcieve
r, unless you fly it out of the Continental USA, ie Canada, or Mexico etc.
- Ceck the FAR's to be sure.- That "R" is no longer part of the "A.R.R.
O.W." acronym for required documents on a preflight.- Most flight schools
probably just have older copies of the radio license in the document holde
rs.
-
Shad
ps I am not 100% on this, but about 95% sure, read the regs on the faa site
, serch radio station license.=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
Sorry for your loss.- As far as your tail number question, tail numbers c
an not start with a 0.- That is why it says invalid.- I have the same p
roblem trying to get a 2 digit tail number with my initials at the end.-
You could try to contact the person with the tail number you desire, and po
ssibly it is not registered to an airworthy aircraft any more.- Hope this
helps.
-
Our prayers and thoughts are with you and your family,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Sounds good. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't some other factor or
characteristic of these crimps that I was overlooking. I will continue to monitor
the measurements.
As for this tool... it is just a little rough around the edges... not as nice as
the original overall, the paint is kind of crappy and the rounds aren't quite
as smooth as the real McCoy. But, I think with a bit of fine scotch brite to
smooth out the rounds, a bit of oil on the hinges and several break in crimps
to seat all of the adjustments, it should function much like the genuine article.
The fella that loaned me his Nicopress tool also told me to check each
crimp, which I did. I'll just keep on like I've been doing and see how it holds
up.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280966#280966
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: My cousin's LSA |
Thanks for the info guys.
OK more on My cousin's LSA (Avid Flyer) The instructor has an IA lined up to inspect
it for $100, just to insure that it is airworthy. This instructor says,
"our mechanic needs to look it over, the seller may have just filled out the log."
Sounds reasonable to me.
The instructor simply suggests insurance. He is not insisting. My wants to insure
it. He is currently towing it around and is worried about damage "in tow."
I am having him check with AOPA and EAA. Any suggestions are appreciated.
The radio itself is what needs the FCC ticket. and that comes from the manufacturer.
I am going to push him about the airworthyness certificate. He is 400 miles north
of here so I am doing it by email.
Blue Skies,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pfeifer Sport plans |
| From: | "ivan.todorovic" <tosha(at)sezampro.rs> |
Sport Aviation article attached.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281003#281003
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sport_aviation_article_3_1976_597.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: My cousin's LSA |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
The link below makes it clear as mud. I have had a restricted radio operators license
since 1966. I have never been asked to produce it. I wouldn't worry a lot
about it one way or the other. It is like a pilot certificate...good for life
unless revoked. I think it is free as well. Just fill out an application form.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rl
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281007#281007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Has anyone tried this stuff (HTS 2000)? It is a special type of brazing rod that
can be used on aluminum and other materials. They claim that it is stronger
than traditional welding techniques. I am making my control horns from .250"
60601 aluminum and I will need to TIG the ears on. I'm considering giving this
material a try with a simple rose bud tip on my oxyacetylene rig. If it works
as well as they say, I may just braze up my fuel tank with this stuff. It
is kind of expensive, but so is a TIG.
Check out this video... http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281033#281033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
The completed joint will be dead soft, it will be annealed. While that might
be suitable for fuel tanks, I sure wouldn't use it for my flight controls!
No way. Not at all.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:01 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: HTS 2000
>
> Has anyone tried this stuff (HTS 2000)? It is a special type of brazing
> rod that can be used on aluminum and other materials. They claim that it
> is stronger than traditional welding techniques. I am making my control
> horns from .250" 60601 aluminum and I will need to TIG the ears on. I'm
> considering giving this material a try with a simple rose bud tip on my
> oxyacetylene rig. If it works as well as they say, I may just braze up my
> fuel tank with this stuff. It is kind of expensive, but so is a TIG.
>
> Check out this video... http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281033#281033
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AMsafetyC(at)aol.com |
Mark,
I have looked at it and wondered if it really worked as well as the demo
video illustrates. My final analysis was that it is quite expensive and not
too certain about the claims and reliability. I for one would be interested
in learning the results of your trial. The demo makes it look too good, too
easy to do, that in my book means too good to be true. Too much skepticism
here but always willing to listen to the results of a reliable source,
let'er go and let us know.
Just for discussion sake I just bought an AC HF century spark box for my
TIG rig so I could weld aluminum, figured once I wasted all the high cost
braze rods and sheet stock on something that wasn't going to work for me, I
could expand my TIG set up and have the equipment asset for as long as I
wanted and TIG weld all the aluminum stock I wanted.
I guess we all have a chance to learn something from this endevor.
Buildapalooza 09 and 2010
John
In a message dated 1/11/2010 11:02:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
hangar10(at)cox.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC"
Has anyone tried this stuff (HTS 2000)? It is a special type of brazing
rod that can be used on aluminum and other materials. They claim that it is
stronger than traditional welding techniques. I am making my control
horns from .250" 60601 aluminum and I will need to TIG the ears on. I'm
considering giving this material a try with a simple rose bud tip on my
oxyacetylene rig. If it works as well as they say, I may just braze up my fuel
tank with this stuff. It is kind of expensive, but so is a TIG.
Check out this video... http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281033#281033
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
Thanks all for the comments.
I will probably look into the 109MR or 194MR number. Also wondering how th
e X would be added to the front - I typed that in the FAA registry search a
nd it comes back invalid too.
Tom B.
From: tmbrant(at)msn.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspiration
Date: Sat=2C 9 Jan 2010 21:05:07 -0600
Well=2C my father-in-law died today after a 2 year fight with cancer. He h
as been a true inspiration and he will be dearly missed. Him and his wife
built one of the wing ribs for my project and I asked them to sign it. A f
ew months back I asked him to think about something significant in his life
relating to numbers and letters. I wanted him to be remembered by the tai
l numbers on my Piet (if I ever finish it). He wasn't able to come up with
much but he suggested I use the date of his death along with his initials.
So - how does 19MR sound? Unfortunately N19MR is taken... So - any sug
gestions how I can work this into the number? I tried 019MR and it said th
at N-number is invalid - does that mean that it's not taken??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Well, I'm not entirely sold, just curious. I did however talk to one of our machinists
about this stuff. He agreed that this stuff is interesting, but that
I would probably be changing the temper of the material in order to apply this
stuff, then he opened his tool box and handed me a stick to try. I'll probably
use some of my drop material to test this stuff.
I understand what you are saying David... the bond may be strong, but the properties
of the surrounding material may be changed. I guess that my next question
would be... how much? Annealing is to make softer, not brittle, right? I'm
just wondering if it would be so weak that the aluminum would fracture or bend
or break before the hardware would be ripped out of the wood parts it is attached
to. Actually, I suppose that is the big question. Maybe I can set up some
tests to determine the strength of my material after applying this stuff.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281053#281053
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | One more try - configuation listing-matrix |
All,
I wanted to plea again if anyone can help me locate this listing. From what
I remember it was a listing of about 10 Pietenpols. It detailed fuselage
length, tank location, and engine, weight and some weight and balance info.
I've searched the archives, My Kitplane and Westcoast Piet. If anyone can
locate please let me know.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
According to AC 45-2D, para 7A2c, you can insert the X, as in NX1234A, without
a problem. You would get N1234A from the FAA and then put the X in when you did
the paint.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281055#281055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered Pietenpol |
Though to the best of my knowledge, Sport Aviation has not yet acknowledged
our mass fly-in
and gathering at AirVenture last summer some five months after the event, t
hey do include
this Pietenpol article on pages 72 and 73.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201001/#pg1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> |
| Subject: | One more try - configuation listing-matrix |
Hi Jack, is this what you want?
Saludos
-
Santiago
-
-=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo
! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered Pietenpol |
That's OK, Mike. We don't need the approval of 'outsiders'. We know
we're cool. 8-)
>Though to the best of my knowledge, Sport Aviation has not yet
>acknowledged our mass fly-in
>and gathering at AirVenture last summer some five months after the event...
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered Pietenpol |
I guess we'll see if the EAA is still interested in grass roots
building and flying depending on how they fill their "new" mag.
Personally, I'm tired of glass cockpits and emotional stories. Give
me the nuts and bolts, and leave the fluff pieces for Redbook.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:45 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> That's OK, Mike. We don't need the approval of 'outsiders'. We know
> we're cool. 8-)
>
>> Though to the best of my knowledge, Sport Aviation has not yet
>> acknowledged our mass fly-in
>
>> and gathering at AirVenture last summer some five months after the
>> event...
>
> --
> ---
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Knowlton " <flyingscott_k(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered Pietenpol |
Wayne. I wholeheartedly agree. I just tidied up some of my new format Sport Pilot
magazines and put them away with some of my old EAA Experimenter magazines.
What a difference between the two formats. Sport Pilot contains mostly powered
parachutes and ready to fly eastern European LSAs where as the old experimenter
is chock full of Tony Bingelis "how to" articles about scarfing and making
homemade wood steamers.
Scott Knowlton
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:42:14
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered
Pietenpol
I guess we'll see if the EAA is still interested in grass roots building and flying
depending on how they fill their "new" mag.
Personally, I'm tired of glass cockpits and emotional stories. Give me the nuts
and bolts, and leave the fluff pieces for Redbook.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com <http://taildraggersinc.com>
On Jan 11, 2010, at 2:45 PM, Jeff Boatright > wrote:
That's OK, Mike. We don't need the approval of 'outsiders'. We know we're cool.
8-)
Though to the best of my knowledge, Sport Aviation has not yet acknowledged our
mass fly-in and gathering at AirVenture last summer some five months after the
event...
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered Pietenpol |
Well, to their credit, there ARE several how-to articles in this
issue of Sport Aviation. Hope that the trend continues.
>
>
>Wayne. I wholeheartedly agree. I just tidied up some of my new
>format Sport Pilot magazines and put them away with some of my old
>EAA Experimenter magazines. What a difference between the two
>formats. Sport Pilot contains mostly powered parachutes and ready
>to fly eastern European LSAs where as the old experimenter is chock
>full of Tony Bingelis "how to" articles about scarfing and making
>homemade wood steamers.
>
>Scott Knowlton
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> |
The X doesn't appear on your registration, but you can paint it on the
plane if it qualifies as an antique replica, which the Piet does.
Ben
TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
>
> Thanks all for the comments.
>
> I will probably look into the 109MR or 194MR number. Also wondering
> how the X would be added to the front - I typed that in the FAA
> registry search and it comes back invalid too.
>
> Tom B.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: tmbrant(at)msn.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspiration
> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 21:05:07 -0600
>
> Well, my father-in-law died today after a 2 year fight with cancer.
> He has been a true inspiration and he will be dearly missed. Him and
> his wife built one of the wing ribs for my project and I asked them to
> sign it. A few months back I asked him to think about something
> significant in his life relating to numbers and letters. I wanted him
> to be remembered by the tail numbers on my Piet (if I ever finish
> it). He wasn't able to come up with much but he suggested I use the
> date of his death along with his initials. So - how does 19MR sound?
> Unfortunately N19MR is taken... So - any suggestions how I can work
> this into the number? I tried 019MR and it said that N-number is
> invalid - does that mean that it's not taken??
> *<="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronicshref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con================
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Article in Sport Aviation about 0-235 powered Pietenpol |
I've been watching, and enjoying, the online how-to videos lately.
It's not all hate for the EAA. There's still some love left. :)
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Jan 11, 2010, at 4:15 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> >
>
> Well, to their credit, there ARE several how-to articles in this
> issue of Sport Aviation. Hope that the trend continues.
>
>> >
>>
>> Wayne. I wholeheartedly agree. I just tidied up some of my new
>> format Sport Pilot magazines and put them away with some of my old
>> EAA Experimenter magazines. What a difference between the two
>> formats. Sport Pilot contains mostly powered parachutes and ready
>> to fly eastern European LSAs where as the old experimenter is chock
>> full of Tony Bingelis "how to" articles about scarfing and making
>> homemade wood steamers.
>> Scott Knowlton
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com> |
How much is a difficult thing to guess, since the entire process is
uncontrolled. The temperature profile isn't known, and the time at those
temperatures is not known or even planned. The materials in the braze aren't
known, any more than the ways that stuff affects the base metal. MIL-HDBK-5,
the strength bible for metals, has a section on brazing that doesn't even
cover aluminum.
I'd say the actual strength doesn't matter. The Pietenpol builder generally
doesn't have a process to follow, a brazing oven where the process, if there
were one, can be controlled, and samples that he can evaluate
quantitatively. Whatever strength a particular joint achieves is unlikely to
be replicated at the next joint.
This is absolutely not suitable for flight controls!
It might be worth considering for fuel tanks, which can be pressure-tested
fairly easily - and ought to be, too.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: HTS 2000
>
> Well, I'm not entirely sold, just curious. I did however talk to one of
> our machinists about this stuff. He agreed that this stuff is
> interesting, but that I would probably be changing the temper of the
> material in order to apply this stuff, then he opened his tool box and
> handed me a stick to try. I'll probably use some of my drop material to
> test this stuff.
>
> I understand what you are saying David... the bond may be strong, but the
> properties of the surrounding material may be changed. I guess that my
> next question would be... how much? Annealing is to make softer, not
> brittle, right? I'm just wondering if it would be so weak that the
> aluminum would fracture or bend or break before the hardware would be
> ripped out of the wood parts it is attached to. Actually, I suppose that
> is the big question. Maybe I can set up some tests to determine the
> strength of my material after applying this stuff.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281053#281053
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Grega GN-1 plans |
Wasn't someone looking for a set recently?
Not mine just passing it on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290389088238
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
There are also several buys on used aircraft turnbuckles on e-Bay at
present. Just search "aircraft turnbuckles".
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> |
Mark,
I don't know anything about HTS 2000, but if you're thinking about welding aluminum,
and making your control horns of solid aluminum, refer to this post I made
to the list July 24, 2008 (food for thought):
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: Aluminum in place of metal fittings
Mike,
In general, if you plan to substitute materials from those shown in the plans,
you had better know what you are doing.
For instance, with regards to substituting aluminum plate for the control horns,
you should be aware (maybe you are already) that if you weld aluminum, many
alloys are severely weakened at the weld location (for 6061 the reduction is about
40% within one inch of the weld).
Aluminum also does have a fatigue limit, unlike steel. What this basically means
is that steel will not be affected by fatigue (repeated cycles of tension and
compression) unless it is stressed above a certain level, whereas aluminum will
feel the effects of fatigue at any level of stress. Eventually, the aluminum
could develop cracks due to fatigue.
Also, the solid aluminum control horns will definitely end up heavier than the
hollow, formed sheet metal horns shown in the drawings. As an example, the aileron
control horn has a surface area of approximately 19 square inches on one
side. Two thicknesses of 22ga (.03") mild steel (or 4130) will weigh about 0.33
lb. One thickness of 3/8" aluminum will weigh approximately 0.7 lb - or twice
as much. Of course, you could machine the aluminum into a bit of an airfoil
shape, which would save a few ounces. But then you will still need to add bracing
angles and nuts and bolts to mount this solid aluminum horn. Attached is a
photo of such an aluminum aileron horn (by someone else), which was cut from
1/4" aluminum plate. I would estimate that this whole arrangement weighs approximately
2 to 3 times as much as a plans-built control horn.
So, in conclusion, just make sure you do your homework before you start changing
from the plans.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281102#281102
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One more try - configuation listing-matrix |
Yes my friend Santiago, Thanks!!!
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 11, 2010, at 1:09 PM, santiago morete wrote:
> Hi Jack, is this what you want?
> Saludos
>
> Santiago
>
>
> Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
> http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jack <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grega GN-1 plans |
Just sold mime for the original price of $25 to a gent in Russia.
Don't archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 11, 2010, at 4:51 PM, "Michael Silvius" wrote:
> >
>
> Wasn't someone looking for a set recently?
>
> Not mine just passing it on
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290389088238
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Thanks guys, I do appreciate your advice. I had never heard of HTS 2000 or any
of the other aluminum brazing rods until today. I just found it interesting
that it seems to be so strong.
As for the aluminum control horns I really havent done any serious analysis or
destructive testing to confirm that 6061 will stand up to the same stresses that
formed sheet metal will. I do know that 6061-T6 claims to have a tensile strength
of 42,000psi and a yield strength of 35,000psi. Hardly the characteristics
of 4130 steel, but much more than my 1/2 spruce aileron spars would allow.
I really didnt think about the annealing that would take place during the
heating of this material. I know that welding aluminum is acceptable, but not
in structural assemblies. I suppose TIG is the most effective and least harmful
method (to the material), but oxy-acetylene is supposed to be acceptable too,
although it would distribute even more heat over a wider area. Again, I understand
this to mean non-structural assemblies like fuel tanks, cowlings, etc.,
as even TIG welding will soften the welded area to 6061-O (tensile 18,000psi,
yield 8,000psi). Ive also read that the assembly could be heat treated to
restore its strength. Im not certain about this but I guess Ill need to consider
that too if I want the full rated strength of T6.
Ive seen a couple of different aircraft that use aluminum control horns. One example
is on a Pietenpol that was built by a local EAA member. Ill pick his brain
as to how he affixed his tabs and dealt with annealing. Perhaps he did nothing
at all, or maybe he will enlighten me on his approach. I do know this
he has many hours on his airplane (his 5th) and is a well respected builder, even
in the Pietenpol community. Im not saying that as a dig at anyone, I am only
stating it to point out that I chose to duplicate some of his features because
I figured that he knew what he was doing (an assumption), and because they
look pretty cool. As for the weight of these items, I assume that you are comparing
1:1 dimensions for these materials. The example I studied has lightening
holes, which I also plan to implement. I know, I know there are probably
1000 arguments for or against the lightening holes too. Well, hopefully I can
provide some answers after my next discussion with this fellow.
Thanks again for the comments. They sure do help get the ideas flowing, and help
me formulate better questions when discussing these issues with others.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281120#281120
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p9260051_768x576_157.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grega GN-1 plans |
| From: | "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com> |
I was looking but the pony express just delivered a set of genuine Pietenpol plans
today. Its like Christmas over here :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281137#281137
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
Mark... It's been quite awhile since I've heard anything about your project. Are
you able to work on building any ribs or do any other work? I'm still working
on mine regularly. I may even finish it one of these years. :)
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
________________________________
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 6:43:02 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: And the real work begins...
Well, after futzing around for a few weeks with my 613.5 rib jib jig,
I have finally invested in some rough cut poplar, and turned it into
little sticks yesterday. I went over to my friend Ray's house, and we
spent the day cutting about 15 or so board feet of wood into 109 6
foot long sticks 1/4" x 1/2". We had a lot of fun, and I am looking
forward to getting the T-88 and beginning to glue them all together. I
still need some 1/16" marine ply (any suggestions on a cheaper source
on this?) but I can at least start cutting the poplar into even
smaller sticks now.
It took us 7 hours, and a lot of sweat, but we had a lot of fun doing
it. Ray and I cut parts for 2 cradles in this same area 19 years ago
when my wife and I found out we were going to have twins. He had the
plans, and we cut the parts in the same drive way we cut the poplar in
yesterday. Funny how things repeat and how important good friends
really are.
I posted all of the pictures we took during the process, including the
peg jig I made for the Riblett 613.5 jig I made. I finally decided on
this airfoil based on a lot of thought. I drew out the rib plot in my
CAD program, then offset the lines by 1/8" and used that line to place
a series of 1/4" holes .75" deep. I made a bunch of 1.25" long pegs
out of 1/4" diameter maple dowels and hammered/glued them into place.
I used my 3 axis mill to do the drilling so I have a 'perfect' plot of
the airfoil, and all the alignments of the pieces are perfect! It's
nice to slide the 1/4" pieces into place and have them fit like a
glove!
So, all I need now is to order the T-88 and some plywood for the
gussets and I can start the assembly process. Oh, yeah, before that I
need to cut those little sticks into many smaller sticks! Well, let
the cutting begin!
Here's a link to the picture folio of the day yesterday, with shots of
the jig as well.
http://picasaweb.google.com/RobertsChristmas2007/PietenpolProject?authkey=Gv1sRgCJiF__Tq2bugtgE&feat=directlink
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Fw: News From System Three Resins |
----- Original Message -----
From: System Three Resins, Inc.
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:03 PM
Subject: News From System Three Resins
Email not displaying correctly? View it in your
browser.
Primary Heading
Auburn, WA. January 11, 2010. System Three Resins,
Inc. of Auburn WA, is pleased to announce a major revision to our
website: www.systemthree.com.
The new website features project pages, where users
can learn about epoxy use on specific projects. The projects include
photo galleries, video and other useful information. System Three has
also established a footprint in the social media world with its new page
on Facebook. Our comprehensive instruction manual, The Epoxy Book, which
contains tips and techniques for using epoxy, as well as safety and
handing, has been reproduced in the System Three blog for easy on line
reading. The new online shopping cart feature will allow customer to buy
direct or choose their favorite retailer.
--------------------------------------------------------------
System Three Resins, Inc. is the leading formulator of
innovative, professional grade adhesives and coatings. Their products
are used in a variety of industries world wide in some of the most
demanding applications including: marine, automotive, aviation, wind
power, sporting goods and electronics.
You are receiving this email because you opted in at
www.systemthree.com.
Unsubscribe cdawson5854(at)shaw.ca from this list |
Forward to a friend | Update your profile
Our mailing address is:
System Three Resins, Inc.
3500 W Valley Hwy N
Suite 105
Auburn, WA 98001-2436
Add us to your address book
Copyright (C) 2010 System Three Resins, Inc. All
rights reserved.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
01/10/10 19:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
What is this?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281165#281165
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
System Three makes the T-88 most of us use to build
our airplanes. There's tech and msds info here.
Clif
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: News From System Three Resins
>
> What is this?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
I use T-88 too, but I'm just not seeing any information. Did you mean to post
something? Perhaps a link directing us somewhere? I guess I'm just not clear
on the "news" portion of this thread. [Laughing]
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281237#281237
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Mark,
Clif forwarded an email from System Three encouraging the recipient to visit
their updated website to check out the new features mentioned in said email.
Project pages, photo galleries, video....they're on Facebook, which I don't
really get. The comprehensive instruction manual (The Epoxy Book) could be a
good resource for T-88 users. As Clif pointed out, topical since many of us
use T-88. BTW, thanks for sharing, Clif.
The website for System Three is: http://www.systemthree.com. Hope that
clarifies it a bit. Have a good night,
Ryan
On Jan 12, 2010 10:06 PM, "K5YAC" wrote:
I use T-88 too, but I'm just not seeing any information. Did you mean to
post something? Perhaps a link directing us somewhere? I guess I'm just
not clear on the "news" portion of this thread. [Laughing]
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281237#281237
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
Scroll down to where it says Auburn, WA.
Just below that is www.systemthree.com.
Isn't that a link to somewhere??
Clif
>
> I use T-88 too, but I'm just not seeing any information. Did you mean to
> post something? Perhaps a link directing us somewhere? I guess I'm just
> not clear on the "news" portion of this thread. [Laughing]
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281237#281237
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Sorry guys, I just use the list on the web... I don't get e-mails or a daily digest.
Perhaps the information that Clif was trying to share was intact for those
receiving the e-mail, but on the web side there is nothing more than "News
From System Three Resins" in the thread subject and nothing more.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass, and I understand that this is topical information...
like I said, I use T-88 too, and I keep checking back each time this thread
is updated in the hopes that there is something to read. So far, the information
has not come through. Perhaps one of you e-mail recipients could post
the link here? Ryan, you are also a web user... surely you can see what I
am talking about, right? There is no information here! You apparently got the
link via e-mail... can you post it?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281260#281260
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Ok, I just reread the thread (sorry, I'm still waking up). I see that Ryan also
posted a link to System Three. Thanks for the link guys.
Once more though... if you look on the web side, you might understand my confusion
as I wondered where the "news" was. In fact, I'm still kind of wondering
that I guess.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281261#281261
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
Mark I get the same thing that you do. There are several that come from phones
and I guess there is some quirk where the text does not come through. I don't
do cell phones anymore. I had to sleep with a cellphone on the bedside table so
many years(on call 27/7). When I retired I went into rebellion.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281267#281267
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I actually receive the list via email, Mark. I am setup to post on the web
forum if need be, but 99.9% of the time I read and post through my GMail
account. GMail actually organizes emails into "conversations", which are
pretty much like the threads on the web forum, so it's pretty easy to read
and I can check the list at the same time I check my email, and get it on
the phone quickly and easily.
Anywho, I did check on the web forum and I see what you mean: Clif's message
was completely blank. Not sure why....however, the only link the original
message contained was to the System Three website.
Have a good day,
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 6:53 AM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> Ok, I just reread the thread (sorry, I'm still waking up). I see that Ryan
> also posted a link to System Three. Thanks for the link guys.
>
> Once more though... if you look on the web side, you might understand my
> confusion as I wondered where the "news" was. In fact, I'm still kind of
> wondering that I guess.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281261#281261
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A. Spruce and stainless hardware |
| From: | "Aircraft Spruce Info" <info(at)aircraftspruce.com> |
We noticed the postings in the Pietenpol forum regarding the rated strength of
the MS24694 screws stocked by Aircraft Spruce. The rated strength of MS24694 steel
screws is 125,000 PSI, and the rated strength of MS24694C stainless steel
screws is 85,000 PSI. If anyone has any questions regarding these screws please
let us know.
Aircraft Spruce
Customer Service Dept.
custsvc(at)aircraftspruce.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281289#281289
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 1279's Corvair Powered Pietenpol Update |
Thought I would pass this along as this is one of the best-organized Pieten
pol EAA projects that I've ever seen
come along. For more information on this Southern California EAA Chapter
see: http://www.eaa1279.org/
From:
Steve Williamson, Pres.
EAA Chapter 1279
French Valley
Dear Members,
We have reached a significant milestone in the construction of our Pietenpo
l Air Camper here at the French Valley Airport. The last several months ha
ve been spent on the details of wing construction. Once the basic structur
e of each wing was complete, there remained the task of mating the wing pan
els to the center section, cutting and hinging the aileron panels, routing
the aileron control cables, and locating the cable guides.
Finally, we were ready to hang the wings. Jerry Trapp made up some tempora
ry lift struts using poles from an aluminum awning. This allowed us to rig
up the wings and take accurate measurements of the exact length of each st
rut before cutting the streamlined tubing used for the actual lift struts.
Streamlined tubing has become quite expensive, so we would like to avoid a
ny mistakes in measuring.
With the wings in place using the temporary struts we were able to hook up
the aileron control cables, climb in the cockpit, and waggle the stick. El
evator, rudder, and ailerons are all working. A very exciting moment for a
ll of us. Once we have established the proper dihedral and washout with th
e temporary struts, Jerry can cut the strut material and fabricate the end
fittings and jury struts. That will complete the basic structure of the ai
rframe.
With the wings in place the project has outgrown the workshop hangar which
has been its home for the last four years. Will Sparkman came to the rescu
e. He has some vacant hangars at the north end of the field. He has arran
ged for us to move the Piet into one of the vacant hangars until things fil
l up. The way things are going with the economy that probably will not hap
pen for some time. I want to thank Will Sparkman and Sky Canyon Enterprise
s for their help and support for our project and our EAA chapter.
As always visitors are welcome at our Saturday morning workshops. The work
shop door will be open. If no one is there, you can find us at the north e
nd. Come see our new digs. In the meantime, check out the photos below.
Steve Williamson, Pres.
EAA Chapter 1279
French Valley
[cid:X.MA1.1263401528(at)aol.com]
[cid:X.MA2.1263401528(at)aol.com]
[cid:X.MA3.1263401528(at)aol.com]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: News From System Three Resins |
I'll bet the viagra ones make it through pretty good........ :-) :-)
Clif
Anywho, I did check on the web forum and I see what you mean: Clif's
message was completely blank. Not sure why....however, the only link the
original message contained was to the System Three website. Have a good
day,Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Long fuselage in tube and fabric? |
Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of wood?
For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f fuselage was synonymous
with the long fuselage. I was just going through the supplemental drawings
to add up tubing lengths to put together a Dillsburg order, and now I see the
t&f fuselage is actually a couple inches shorter than the standard wood.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tube and fabric fuselage: tubing sizes |
While we're here:
On the steel tube fuselage supplemental drawing, on the elevation view, the size
of the tube going from station 2 down to station 13 and from station 2 down
to station 12 are blurry on my drawing, especially the latter. I think they say
5/8", but I'm not sure. Can someone confirm these two dimensions for me, please?
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel tank Questions |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi All
I have just spent 2 hrs looking for the answers when I should have been out in
the shed building so I will ask now go to the shed build and await your replies.
I am planning on building an aluminum tank with the bottom the same camber as the
bottom of the wing with an outlet in the front right and rear right,Could there
be any problems with this? Has anyone else done the same?
Also if one of the pickups was to become starved of fuel would this make an air
bubble in the system? If yes is that what a header tank is for to resolve the
air bubble problem?
Or a better question what is the header tank for?
All suggestions appreciated
Thanks
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281396#281396
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank Questions |
Carson,
That's exactly what I did. I never had any problems with fuel flow. Gravity
is a magic thing!
I had a header tank and after some time wondered why I had it. I couldn't
see what was in it so I install a hard clear plastic tube in the down pipe
from the top tank. When that was clear it was time to look for a landing
spot. There was probably a half hour of fuel in the header tank. I installed
the header tank mainly so there was a fairly constant head of fuel to the
carby. Have a look at the bottom of photo page 9 on the web site for some
pictures.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Vic
http://www.cpc-world.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson
Sent: Thursday, 14 January 2010 4:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank Questions
Hi All
I have just spent 2 hrs looking for the answers when I should have been out
in the shed building so I will ask now go to the shed build and await your
replies.
I am planning on building an aluminum tank with the bottom the same camber
as the bottom of the wing with an outlet in the front right and rear
right,Could there be any problems with this? Has anyone else done the same?
Also if one of the pickups was to become starved of fuel would this make an
air bubble in the system? If yes is that what a header tank is for to
resolve the air bubble problem?
Or a better question what is the header tank for?
All suggestions appreciated
Thanks
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281396#281396
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Jim,
I can't speak to whether or not there are steel tube long fuselage Piets out
there off the top of my head.....but as far as the plans go:
There are no plans for a steel tube long fuselage. Here's a quick list of
the various fuselages there are plans for:
Flying and Glider manual 13' 5" length: Wood and steel
1933 'Improved' approx 13' 7" length: Wood
Supplemental plans long fuselage approx 14' 5": Wood
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Jim Ash wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of wood?
>
> For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f fuselage was
> synonymous with the long fuselage. I was just going through the supplemental
> drawings to add up tubing lengths to put together a Dillsburg order, and now
> I see the t&f fuselage is actually a couple inches shorter than the standard
> wood.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wildhorsesracing <wildhorsesracing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? |
I just ordered a set of plans and the front page is a complete steel diagram -
the top longeron is 5/8 x .035
-jim pantas
www.wildhorsesracing.com
________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 7:58:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric?
Jim,
I can't speak to whether or not there are steel tube long fuselage Piets out there
off the top of my head.....but as far as the plans go:
There are no plans for a steel tube long fuselage. Here's a quick list of the various
fuselages there are plans for:
Flying and Glider manual 13' 5" length: Wood and steel
1933 'Improved' approx 13' 7" length: Wood
Supplemental plans long fuselage approx 14' 5": Wood
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Jim Ash wrote:
>
>
>>Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of wood?
>
>>For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f fuselage was synonymous
with the long fuselage. I was just going through the supplemental drawings
to add up tubing lengths to put together a Dillsburg order, and now I see
the t&f fuselage is actually a couple inches shorter than the standard wood.
>
>>Jim Ash
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | amsafetyc(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees & amount |
of travel
Actually the question is more about the flexion of the bungee cords on the
axle mount, how much does the axle move on compression typically on a good
landing and how much travel should it be capable of in the event of a hard
landing. I am trying to get an idea as to the amount of travel needed in
the axle and how much is provided by the bungee's.
Simply put how much travel do I need and how much do the bungee's allow for
?
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Composit fuel tanks |
In the Bingelis books he covers making fuel tanks with foam, glass cloth and epoxy.
I plan on making my tank in this matter. Anyone here have any experience
with this idea? I would like to know what I need to buy to get started. I see
there are a few foams to choose from ( A. Spruce) and I am not clear on what else
to get. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees & |
amount of travel
Depends on how hard you land.
Seriously, I have seen about 3" of travel on my axle, but my guide pins
allow for 6"
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees &
amount of travel
Actually the question is more about the flexion of the bungee cords on the
axle mount, how much does the axle move on compression typically on a good
landing and how much travel should it be capable of in the event of a hard
landing. I am trying to get an idea as to the amount of travel needed in the
axle and how much is provided by the bungee's.
Simply put how much travel do I need and how much do the bungee's allow for
?
Thanks
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
| From: | Craig Steffen <craigsteffen(at)gmail.com> |
> I would like to know what I need to buy to get started. I see there are a few
foams to
> choose from ( A. Spruce) and I am not clear on what else to get. Thanks.
Keep in mind that foam + epoxy technology comprises a system, just
like primer+paint, so you need to make sure that everything works
together. My dim memory is that traditional epoxies go with
styrafoam; that's the system that Burt Rutan's designs use (styrafoam
dissolves in gasoline, BTW)(can be hot-wired). Then Eurathane foams,
which work with vinylester epoxies, don't dissolve in gasoline, but
are toxic to cut with heat.
I may have the details wrong, but my point is that make sure that foam
+ epoxy + coating/primer/paint technology all goes together.
Craig Steffen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees & |
amount of travel
Jack:
What size tubes did you use for the guide pins in the axle and for the tubes on
the landing gear?
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 1/14/2010 8:11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees &
amount of travel
Depends on how hard you land.
Seriously, I have seen about 3 of travel on my axle, but my guide pins allow for
6
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees & amount
of travel
Actually the question is more about the flexion of the bungee cords on the axle
mount, how much does the axle move on compression typically on a good landing
and how much travel should it be capable of in the event of a hard landing. I
am trying to get an idea as to the amount of travel needed in the axle and how
much is provided by the bungee's.
Simply put how much travel do I need and how much do the bungee's allow for ?
Thanks
John
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? |
What does it say about the tube diameters from station 2 to 13 and 2 to 12?
The drawing I'm looking at says "1937 AIR CAMPER WITH 1960 CORVAIR ENGINE" at the
top.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: wildhorsesracing
Sent: Jan 14, 2010 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric?
I just ordered a set of plans and the front page is a complete steel diagram -
the top longeron is 5/8 x .035
-jim pantas
www.wildhorsesracing.com
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, January 14, 2010 7:58:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Long fuselage in tube and fabric?
Jim,
I can't speak to whether or not there are steel tube long fuselage Piets out there
off the top of my head.....but as far as the plans go:
There are no plans for a steel tube long fuselage. Here's a quick list of the various
fuselages there are plans for:
Flying and Glider manual 13' 5" length: Wood and steel
1933 'Improved' approx 13' 7" length: Wood
Supplemental plans long fuselage approx 14' 5": Wood
Ryan
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Jim Ash wrote:
Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of wood?
For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f fuselage was synonymous
with the long fuselage. I was just going through the supplemental drawings
to add up tubing lengths to put together a Dillsburg order, and now I see the
t&f fuselage is actually a couple inches shorter than the standard wood.
Jim Ash
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
What are the upsides and downsides to making tanks from composites
versus aluminum versus galvanized steel? I'm curious what the list
has to say.
>In the Bingelis books he covers making fuel tanks with foam, glass
>cloth and epoxy. I plan on making my tank in this matter. Anyone
>here have any experience with this idea? I would like to know what I
>need to buy to get started. I see there are a few foams to choose
>from ( A. Spruce) and I am not clear on what else to get. Thanks.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Michael:
I don't have the information you need (which glass cloth - resin, etc.)
here with me at the office but I will try to find it this evening. I do
have a section on my build log that covers building a fiberglass tank with
help from my son who does this every day at Scaled Composites. There
might be some information there which would prove useful. I can tell you
that using the right cloth is critical since you will have a lot of
corners and curves in your tank and a lot of cloth choices are made for
laying up large flat sections. These cloths do not take to compound
curves well.
http://www.eaa1344.com/Projects/Stinemetze/wing_center_section.htm
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
N328X
>>> Michael Perez 1/14/2010 8:00 AM >>>
In the Bingelis books he covers making fuel tanks with foam, glass cloth
and epoxy. I plan on making my tank in this matter. Anyone here have any
experience with this idea? I would like to know what I need to buy to get
started. I see there are a few foams to choose from ( A. Spruce) and I am
not clear on what else to get. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
I would love any help you can provide Tom. I have a very, very long time Lo
ng EZ builder/pilot whom I will chat with as well. From the Bingelis book,
it seems pretty straight forward, but some of the lingo. in the book does n
ot jive with current lingo. used in A. Spruce. So, I am struggling with wha
t to buy and how to use/apply the new products.
-
I won't be willing to do this until summer so I can be outside, but I would
like to be ready to dive in when the time is right.
-
Please, for those who have some experience, continue to post.
-
BTW "lingo." is current and correct aviation language...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | My welding so far |
I know how you guys, myself included, like to see pictures of work in progress,
so here are a few of my welding jobs so far. It has been a LONG time since I
have done any and I am actually enjoying doing it now and am happy with the results.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | More welding pictures |
More of my welding so far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees & |
amount of travel
I don=92t remember exactly, but I think the guide pins were =BD=94
.049=94 wall and
the collar they ride in was =BE=94 .035=94 wall. Really don=92t
remember and the
airplane is not where I can easily measure it (It=92s in Virginia, I=92m
in
North Carolina). Just make sure there is plenty of =93slop=94 around
the guide
pins so they won=92t bind if one wheel hits a pothole.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on
bungees & amount of travel
Jack:
What size tubes did you use for the guide pins in the axle and for the
tubes
on the landing gear?
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Phillips
Sent: 1/14/2010 8:11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on
bungees & amount of travel
Depends on how hard you land.
Seriously, I have seen about 3=14 of travel on my axle, but my guide
pins
allow for 6=14
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on
bungees &
amount of travel
Actually the question is more about the flexion of the bungee cords on
the
axle mount, how much does the axle move on compression typically on a
good
landing and how much travel should it be capable of in the event of a
hard
landing. I am trying to get an idea as to the amount of travel needed in
the
axle and how much is provided by the bungee's.
Simply put how much travel do I need and how much do the bungee's allow
for
?
Thanks
John
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | My welding so far |
Looks good, Mike
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My welding so far
I know how you guys, myself included, like to see pictures of work in
progress, so here are a few of my welding jobs so far. It has been a LONG
time since I have done any and I am actually enjoying doing it now and am
happy with the results.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees & |
amount of travel
Thanks Jack:
That's pretty much what size I was going to use as it looked about right and I
had scrap tubing around that size.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 1/14/2010 10:13:56 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wooden landing gear question G forces on bungees &
amount of travel
I dont remember exactly, but I think the guide pins were .049 wall and the collar
they ride in was .035 wall. Really dont remember and the airplane is not
where I can easily measure it (Its in Virginia, Im in North Carolina). Just
make sure there is plenty of slop around the guide pins so they wont bind if
one wheel hits a pothole.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: My welding so far |
Very nice, in my book.
On 01/14/2010 10:02 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> I know how you guys, myself included, like to see pictures of work in
> progress, so here are a few of my welding jobs so far. It has been a
> LONG time since I have done any and I am actually enjoying doing it now
> and am happy with the results.
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: More welding pictures |
Well, now you're just bragging.
;-)
It's been a long time since I've touched flame to steel, but all these
look great to me. I'm no professional welder, so if someone else sees a
problem, speak up.
On 01/14/2010 10:05 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> More of my welding so far.
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | My welding so far |
Mighty fine welds.....
Brian
SLC-UT
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My welding so far
I know how you guys, myself included, like to see pictures of work in
progress, so here are a few of my welding jobs so far. It has been a
LONG time since I have done any and I am actually enjoying doing it now
and am happy with the results.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More welding pictures |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Yeah, no kidding. Fabulous work.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281475#281475
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? |
NX20795 is a long tube and fabric Piet. Also the tail components are
tube and fabric.
Roman Bukolt
On Jan 13, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Jim Ash wrote:
>
>
>
> Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of
> wood?
>
> For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f
> fuselage was synonymous with the long fuselage. I was just going
> through the supplemental drawings to add up tubing lengths to put
> together a Dillsburg order, and now I see the t&f fuselage is
> actually a couple inches shorter than the standard wood.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More welding pictures |
To be honest, I used a lot of scrap and a lot of filler doing practice weld
s long before what you see in this post! I was burning holes in steel, grou
nding the electrode to the metal and filler, dropping the metal, (no clampi
ng) etc. At times I thought I would never get it!
-
The welds were done with a Lincoln V205-T-TIG. I used ER 80S-D2 filler ro
d.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More welding pictures |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Holy smokes... I must have missed this part. I thought that you gassed those.
[Shocked]
Still real nice looking work.
> speedbrake(at)sbcglobal said...
>
> The welds were done with a Lincoln V205-T TIG. I used ER 80S-D2 filler rod.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281486#281486
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric? |
My set of plans including the supplemental plans include a steel tube
fuselage that is 14' 2"
NX20795
On Jan 14, 2010, at 6:58 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I can't speak to whether or not there are steel tube long fuselage
> Piets out there off the top of my head.....but as far as the plans go:
>
> There are no plans for a steel tube long fuselage. Here's a quick
> list of the various fuselages there are plans for:
>
> Flying and Glider manual 13' 5" length: Wood and steel
> 1933 'Improved' approx 13' 7" length: Wood
> Supplemental plans long fuselage approx 14' 5": Wood
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Jim Ash
> wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody built a long fuselage out of tube and fabric instead of
> wood?
>
> For some reason over the last couple years I thought the t&f
> fuselage was synonymous with the long fuselage. I was just going
> through the supplemental drawings to add up tubing lengths to put
> together a Dillsburg order, and now I see the t&f fuselage is
> actually a couple inches shorter than the standard wood.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Michael:
I did a little research on the Aircraft Spruce site to see what I
remembered about fiberglass cloth and resin choices. Here is what I used:
(Note: these are not the only acceptable choices. Listen closely to your
local guru and use what he is familiar with!)
Cloth - BID (or Bi-Directional) http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpag
es/rutan.php - My first purchase (before I asked for advice) was not
bi-directional and it was MUCH HARDER to get to lay down properly. Note
that Aircraft Spruce calls this a "Rutan" cloth. At Scaled Composites
they use this stuff exclusively.
Resin - EZ Poxy - http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/ezpoxy.php
- I started out with the 1 1/2 quart kit and eventually had to purchase a
second kit. This stuff has to be mixed )resin -hardener) in the correct
proportions by weight but this is not difficult. I used a cheap postal
scale with disposable butter tubs and a small handheld calculator in a
plastic sandwich bag. Just put the ratio in the calculator's memory, zero
out the postal scale with the empty tub on it, pour in the how much resin
you want in that batch, calculate the weight of hardener needed and add
that to the weight of resin already in the tub, add hardener carefully
until the tub weighs what you calculated, and then stir thoroughly (for a
couple of minutes at least) with a stir stick and you're ready to go.
Roving - I was able to obtain some of the Rutan S-Glass but the smaller
quantity of the 3M product should do just as well. http://www.aircraftspruc
e.com/menus/cm/fiberglass_strands.html - This long string of glass fiber
is wetted out with resin and laid in any gaps that have to be filled. If
you looked at my build site, this is what was used to fill the gaps when
the four quarters of the tank were rejoined.
Corner tapes - There are different fiberglass tapes available but - after
the fact - it would have been much simpler to have just cut some from the
BID and they would have laid down and wetted out a lot easier.
Scissors - buy a cheap pair at a discount store. They will be mostly
finished at the same time as your project.
Resin applicators - Get the cheapest 1" to 1 1/2" paint brushes you can
find and cut off the bristles to about 1/2 their length.
Stir sticks - use craft sticks or popsicle sticks cut off square on one
end. You will need a bunch of these.
Mold release agent - there are commercial products for this but you can
also use auto wax or household wax. Candle wax is too hard.
Foam - We used the 1 1/2" thick blue foam that is used for house insulation
. You can get this relatively cheaply at any lumber yard and it does not
release toxic fumes when cut with a hot wire.
Temporary barriers - good quality trash bags and wide clear boxing tape.
You will want to cover your work surface with trash bags if nothing else.
Both the trash bags and the tape can be coated with mold release so you
can lay up directly on them but still be able to get the part off later.
Hot Wire - You can make this tool pretty easily out of scraps you probably
have around the shop. See my build site for a couple of ideas. You will
need a rheostat to control the power. Try Radio Shack or similar. Use
safety wire for the cutting wire. I tried several different wires from
the hardware store and none of the others would last very long.
Mixing cups - start saving up butter tubs and the like. They are also
very useful for mixing T-88. ( I use the lids mostly.) When you are
mixing resin/hardener you will not be able to reuse the tub. Don't make
each batch larger than necessary as you have to stop when the batch starts
to kick or you will end up messing up that layer and have a major sanding
job before you can continue. (voice of experience)
That's all I can think of at the moment. Working with fiberglass is a lot
of fun, if fairly messy. Once you have built something with it you start
looking for other things that you could use it for. I have plans to build
a new mailbox in the shape of SpaceShipOne - if I ever get enough of the
Pietenpol done to move it out of the shop.
Best of luck on your project
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | My welding so far |
Yea Michael.but are they strong? JUST KIDDING beautiful work!!!!
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My welding so far
I know how you guys, myself included, like to see pictures of work in
progress, so here are a few of my welding jobs so far. It has been a LONG
time since I have done any and I am actually enjoying doing it now and am
happy with the results.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Thanks Tom. The Bingelis book write up talked about laying out the cloth/epoxy
over the foam flat on a table, then when dry, cut it up into the pieces need to
make the tank. I don't think there is any molds required. (not clear yet.) I
hope I can get in touch with the Long EZ guy...it has been a long time. I don't
know how much experience he has with this method.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | My welding so far |
I wasn't worried about strength, just aesthetics!=C2- (I building a hanga
r queen...)=C2- 8^[)
--- On Thu, 1/14/10, Jack wrote:
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: My welding so far
Date: Thursday, January 14, 2010, 12:52 PM
Yea Michaelbut are they strong?=C2- JUST KIDDING beautiful work!
!!!
Jack
DSM
=C2-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 10:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: My welding so far
=C2-
I know how you guys, myself included, like to see pictures of work in progr
ess, so here are a few of my welding jobs so far. It has been a LONG time s
ince I have done any and I am actually enjoying doing it now and am happy w
ith the results.
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Jeff,
In my inexperienced opinion, besides the different methods of
construction, the primary differences between a composite fuel tank
and an aluminum tank would be what kind of fuels you can use in each.
I remember reading that some fuels dissolve some epoxies, but aluminum
is unaffected by any fuel.
It would probably be easier to fit a fiberglass tank into an odd
shape, but you may lose the ability to use different types if fuel.
I'm sure someone else knows more about this than I do, and I'm pretty
sure it's covered in the Bingelis books.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:45 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> What are the upsides and downsides to making tanks from composites
> versus aluminum versus galvanized steel? I'm curious what the list
> has to say.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Vinyl ester resin apears to be the only resin that offers resistance to
the ethanol in modern autofuels. The ethanol seems to degrade epoxies
and polyesters including some tank sealer/ slosh compounds. Vinyl ester
is also the standard in fuel tanks for boatbuilding. It is also a bit
cheaper.
"vinyl ester resin is formulated for maximum corrosion resistance to
most fuels, vapors, and both acidic and basic chemicals. It is also heat
resistant and blended for toughness. These qualities make it perfect for
repairing tank linings, blistering boat hulls, as well as fabricating
tough all-around parts. Catalyze with 1.25% MEKP, Shelf Life Limited to
3 months".
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/chemical-resistance-vinyl-ester-d_785.h
tml
http://www.fibreglast.com/category/Vinyl_Ester_Resins
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/vinylester.php
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Bressler
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Composit fuel tanks
Jeff,
In my inexperienced opinion, besides the different methods of
construction, the primary differences between a composite fuel tank and
an aluminum tank would be what kind of fuels you can use in each. I
remember reading that some fuels dissolve some epoxies, but aluminum is
unaffected by any fuel.
It would probably be easier to fit a fiberglass tank into an odd
shape, but you may lose the ability to use different types if fuel.
I'm sure someone else knows more about this than I do, and I'm pretty
sure it's covered in the Bingelis books.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Mike:
OK, now you've got me worried. My fiberglass tank was built with E-Z Poxy
from Aircraft Spruce. According to the MSDS data sheet the mixture is:
Glycidyl ethers of bisphenol A resins and Tri(dimethylaminomethyl)phenol
What in tarnation does that mean? Is my tank going to fall apart and dump
12 gallons (more or less) on my little head?
I think I will obtain some Gasohol, fill up the tank, and let it sit in a
nice quiet place for a couple of months and see how it is doing. I've got
plenty of other things I can be working on.
Tom Stinemetze
N328X
>>> "Michael Silvius" 1/14/2010 3:29 PM >>>
Vinyl ester resin apears to be the only resin that offers resistance to
the ethanol in modern autofuels. The ethanol seems to degrade epoxies and
polyesters including some tank sealer/ slosh compounds. Vinyl ester is
also the standard in fuel tanks for boatbuilding. It is also a bit
cheaper.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank Questions |
Carson, I did much the same thing, although I put a fuel pickup in every
corner of the tank so I could never be starved for fuel. Good thing is,
I've only got about a tablespoon of unusable fuel in the tank. Bad thing is
routing the fuel system is a bear, bringing fuel from 4 different pickups to
one shutoff valve, and then forward to the engine. I use a vented cap and
have never had any problems at all with the fuel system.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 12:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel tank Questions
Hi All
I have just spent 2 hrs looking for the answers when I should have been out
in the shed building so I will ask now go to the shed build and await your
replies.
I am planning on building an aluminum tank with the bottom the same camber
as the bottom of the wing with an outlet in the front right and rear
right,Could there be any problems with this? Has anyone else done the same?
Also if one of the pickups was to become starved of fuel would this make an
air bubble in the system? If yes is that what a header tank is for to
resolve the air bubble problem?
Or a better question what is the header tank for?
All suggestions appreciated
Thanks
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281396#281396
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gliderx5(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
I just finished the fuel tank for my Piet with the widened center section. I used
1/4 inch lastofoam sheet, sandwiched with 2 layers of 6 oz cloth and vinylester
resin. Sheets were cut to shape and assembled into the tank using cloth,
flox, and resin at the seams. This resin is supposed to hold up to ethenol. The
tank holds 18 gallons and weighs 16 lbs empty including the fuel level sender
and cap. Its very strong but seems too heavy. I went with outlets at opposite
corners and a raised diagnol ridge on the bottom to drain to the outlets. I
would probably look at using aluminum next time. I think it would be lighter.
The vinylester resin really stinks, and has a short shelf life. The first gallon
gelled before I ever got around to opening it.
Malcolm Morrison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perez" <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:00:59 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Composit fuel tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Composit fuel tanks |
Tom:
I am not sure if you need to panic just yet. The Long EZ crowd seems to
have had the most reported issues swith ethanol so you may want to take
a look at this thread:
http://forum.canardaviation.com/showthread.php?t=4594
"This is just an on-going experiment, and we all learn from each step.
Chris was good enough to test Jeffco - it lasted less than a year. I
tested naked MGS - it lasted about 6 years. Perry Mick tested EZ-Poxy,
and is still going strong. So far it looks like Perry was closest to a
workable solution. My next test is EZPoxy with a Proseal liner. Of
course, one example does not prove much in any of these tests. The
experiment continues...."
I have heard good things about the POR 15 tank sealers so it may be
worth loking in to as a solution.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
December 31, 2009 - January 14, 2010
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ir