Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-iu

January 30, 2010 - February 10, 2010



      
      
      Bear in mind that I have a little bit  (maybe 3=94) of aluminum up above 
      the
      longeron on mine.  I think (I=92ve packed the plans away for our 
      eventual move
      to Virginia and have no idea where they are now) the plans show the 
      cockpit
      coamings right on top of the longerons, like Mike Cuy did on his.  I 
      wanted
      a bit more protection from the wind, and having those long thin sections 
      of
      cowling that extend along the longerons just made one long piece way too
      flimsy and difficult to handle.
      
      
      Jack Phillips
      
      NX899JP
      
      Raleigh, NC
      
      
        _____  
      
      
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:12 PM
Subject: cockpit metalwork
OK, I am starting to cut metal to make my cockpit coaming. The plans show the metal, for example between the two cockpits as being made of two separate pieces. It is similar for the forward pieces. It looks like many of you have built your metal per the plans. I am wondering whether there is any practical reason for this? I would prefer to make it out of one piece. One potential reason I can see is in some of the original drawings, it looks like one piece of metal covers the area back to the instrument panel and the separate piece is angled upwards from the panel back, maybe to allow you to see the panel better. If that is the reason, I still do not want to do it, I don't like the way it looks. Anyone have ideas? Has anyone angled the rear pieces upwards? Gene http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2010
Hey Gene, My guess it is because the fuselage starts to taper from the rear instrument panel through the rear cockpit and on back. I suppose it makes it easier to make that piece because of the taper. However as long as you cut your one piece so that it allows for the taper, I can't see it being a problem. if I were making mine over again, I'd probably try it. It would make a cleaner installation for the mounting of the windshield. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
Date: Jan 30, 2010
Duh! Of course you're right, it is because of the taper. I would probably have seen this when I make cardboard patterns. I knew someone would have an answer. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Emch<mailto:EmchAir(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cockpit metalwork > Hey Gene, My guess it is because the fuselage starts to taper from the rear instrument panel through the rear cockpit and on back. I suppose it makes it easier to make that piece because of the taper. However as long as you cut your one piece so that it allows for the taper, I can't see it being a problem. if I were making mine over again, I'd probably try it. It would make a cleaner installation for the mounting of the windshield. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284080#284080> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: cockpit metalwork
Hi Gene, - Ours is made in one piece, we had no problems with the taper in the rear co ckpit.- I-guess that piece-is angled upwards-to provide some protec tion from the wind because originally there was no windshields in the Air C amper, as you can see in the F&GM plans and some old photos, but I don't kn ow why that remains unchanged in the "improved Air Camper" plans. Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0A
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
From: "auscar" <tony.calvert(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2010
I've been a lurker here for a while and being a dreamer not a builder I haven't contributed. But I feel my background as a vintage car alloy bodybuilder (past life) may be of benefit here. You should easily be able to get the amount of taper needed by rolling a longer piece of alloy as you would the shorter (two piece) version and then carefully hand forming a tighter curve in the end of the alloy. All you need is a curved surface a couple of inches less than the desired circumference to work it over. I'm not sure where the taper starts but if it is where the rear cockpit is it should be even easier just rough cut the cockpit hole to allow a bit more flexibility. If you want to get really fancy it is possible to do a ramp or lip that curves up at the front of each cockpit, although I'm not sure of effects on the aero. And the type of alloy used influences the workability. Some examples of whats possible with a bit of persistence and some hammers and home made tools http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/acalvert/jag.html Cheers Tony -------- Just Lurking Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284084#284084 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Rear Seat belts
Date: Jan 30, 2010
For the rear cockpit, from pictures I've seen, some have their shoulder belts exit from the top of the bulkhead and some from the bottom. Is there a preference for comfort and or safety? Thanks, Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
Date: Jan 30, 2010
Thanks Santiago! I was planning on making mine exactly like you have here, and now I will. Beautiful work, as usual!! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: santiago morete<mailto:moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cockpit metalwork Hi Gene, Ours is made in one piece, we had no problems with the taper in the rear cockpit. I guess that piece is angled upwards to provide some protection from the wind because originally there was no windshields in the Air Camper, as you can see in the F&GM plans and some old photos, but I don't know why that remains unchanged in the "improved Air Camper" plans. Saludos Santiago ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Miracle on the Hudson....Heart is in your throat...off
topic but well worth it!!
Date: Jan 30, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tE_5eiYn0D0#t=109 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Article on Ken Perkins
Great photo, Ken. > >It's not a Pietenpol, but my early morning picture of a Stampe on >short final was picked as the member picture of the month in the new >Sport Aviation. At least a Stampe is open cockpit and of all-wood >construction. :) > >--Ken > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 30, 2010
Subject: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business.... BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig perfectly following the coordinates... Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts for one rib! Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited. I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? "Right there in that stack..." So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o) Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do... Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 30, 2010
Well first off congratulations on putting yourself back to work. I must say that I would be very interested in getting a price at the very least for a wing kit. The big thing I would be interested in would be the Jig. I've been messin around some with building ribs, and have come to the conclusion that my rib jig needs a jig. I'm really not ready to build the wing yet, but Uncle Obama screwed up and is giving me some money back, so this is the right time for me to make just such an investment. If you can get the legalities worked out and get something packaged up for a reasonable price I'd sure like to know about it. Jim. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284131#284131 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cockpit metalwork
From: "auscar" <tony.calvert(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Thinking about it. Although a PPL would need to be sorted. Took a few lessons years ago but then the cost of the cars got in the way. My wife is keen on the RV 10 so we can put the mtb's in the back and go moutain biking in other parts of NZ but a Piet is more in my price range. Have to be a steel fuselage. -------- Just Lurking Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284134#284134 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Rear Seat belts
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Jack, from everything I have read you never want to anchor your shoulder belts below your shoulders. In a crash it will compress your spine. There is some thought that you would be better off without shoulder belts, rather that using ones anchored at the bottom. Gene in snowy beautiful Tennessee N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear Seat belts For the rear cockpit, from pictures I've seen, some have their shoulder belts exit from the top of the bulkhead and some from the bottom. Is there a preference for comfort and or safety? Thanks, Jack DSM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/30/10 19:35:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Rear turtle deck-stab question
Date: Jan 31, 2010
The plans for the long fuselage show a measurement of 18 7/8 inches for the distance between the rear of the turtle deck and back of the tail post. The short plans show as 18 inches. Am I missing something here? The horizontal stabilizer cord is 18 inches. Shall we go with this? Thanks, Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Rear turtle deck-stab question
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Jack, I did not catch that before building, but definitely realized it after I started fitting the stabilizer. You can see the piece of 'filler' here. One good thing, is that it gave me something to round off nicely for the transition. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear turtle deck-stab question The plans for the long fuselage show a measurement of 18 7/8 inches for the distance between the rear of the turtle deck and back of the tail post. The short plans show as 18 inches. Am I missing something here? The horizontal stabilizer cord is 18 inches. Shall we go with this? Thanks, Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Rear turtle deck-stab question
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Just make it fit. Be sure to give yourself allowance for fabric and paint. I think you would want a gap of 1/8" or so between the end of the turtledeck and the stab. I never noticed the discrepancy because I had my stab mounted when I built the turtledeck and just made everything fit. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rear turtle deck-stab question The plans for the long fuselage show a measurement of 18 7/8 inches for the distance between the rear of the turtle deck and back of the tail post. The short plans show as 18 inches. Am I missing something here? The horizontal stabilizer cord is 18 inches. Shall we go with this? Thanks, Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chet Hartley" <chethartley1(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Mark, I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? Chet Hartley ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Roberts To: pietenpol-list Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business.... BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig perfectly following the coordinates... Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts for one rib! Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited. I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? "Right there in that stack..." So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o) Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do... Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) Hey Chet! I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. Thanks! Mark On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley wrote: > Mark, > > I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. > > Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? > > Chet Hartley > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Roberts > *To:* pietenpol-list > *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! > > OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have > made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the > recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a > wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. > I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good > match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router. > In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the > router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was > laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business.... > > BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing > kits for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I > knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD > drawings and brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A > new peg jig perfectly following the coordinates... > > Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC > to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it > today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see > a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to > cut the parts for one rib! > > Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap > strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I > finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est > right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited. > > I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am > looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a > jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya > from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) > for this wing. > > What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there > and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and > asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits > some certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my > gussets? "Right there in that stack..." > > So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself. > Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o) > > Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading > Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up > some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do... > > Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! > > Mark > > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: cold weather flying
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Temperature is sitting in the low 30s here at the moment, so I was thinking about cold weather garb. When we lived in Oregon and used to downhill ski, I had several different pairs of ski gloves and found that the chopper-style mitts kept my hands warmer than gloves with individual fingers. Makes sense because all four fingers are together in the mitt, keeping them warmer. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Jim... I will work on that this week. I don't think there is anything holding me back from offering a rib jig, so that won't be a problem. I am concerned about the actual selling of the wood and such which may not be problematic at all to offer wing kits of this and other airfoils, but I haven't checked with any lawyers yet. I just decided that I could wait for a job to come to me, or I could get out and do something more productive than sitting at home and worrying! If you'd like to chat off line my phone is 559-917-5904. Thanks! Mark On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 10:52 PM, flea wrote: > > Well first off congratulations on putting yourself back to work. > I must say that I would be very interested in getting a price at the very > least for a wing kit. The big thing I would be interested in would be the > Jig. I've been messin around some with building ribs, and have come to the > conclusion that my rib jig needs a jig. I'm really not ready to build the > wing yet, but Uncle Obama screwed up and is giving me some money back, so > this is the right time for me to make just such an investment. If you can > get the legalities worked out and get something packaged up for a reasonable > price I'd sure like to know about it. > > Jim. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284131#284131 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jan 31, 2010
Hi Oscar, It has been in the teens here in upstate NY for some time now. Below zero at night. Only flying I have been doing is in the shop. I agree with your choice of hand wear. My hands get cold easy so when it gets really cold I wear down mitts with knit wool gloves as liners. This allows me to take my hand out of the mitt and have use of my fingers for a couple of minutes without them loosing their heat. I use this method when x-country skiing. I have been wondering lately what it would be like flying in the winter in an open cockpit airplane? Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284292#284292 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
Date: Jan 31, 2010
I learned aerobatics out in Southern California in an open-cockpit airplane when I was a lot younger. Even in the summer, over Malibu, we needed to wear gloves. I foolishly made a molded control stick grip then that still fits my hand like a glove. That was the problem: I wasn't wearing gloves when I made it, and it didn't fit when I put my flying gloves on. So if you're making cockpit controls, see if you can use them while wearing gloves. Another man built a nice Fly-Baby. He had a clever cover. It snapped around the cockpit rim at the level of the longerons and just below the instrument panel. The cover had a jacket collar and zipper. He'd get in and zip it up and from the neck down, he was in a closed-cockpit airplane. He said it was very comfortable, flying with that. David Paule > > Hi Oscar, > > It has been in the teens here in upstate NY for some time now. Below zero > at night. Only flying I have been doing is in the shop. > > I agree with your choice of hand wear. My hands get cold easy so when it > gets really cold I wear down mitts with knit wool gloves as liners. This > allows me to take my hand out of the mitt and have use of my fingers for a > couple of minutes without them loosing their heat. I use this method when > x-country skiing. > > I have been wondering lately what it would be like flying in the winter in > an open cockpit airplane? > > Jon Coxwell > > -------- > Jon Coxwell > GN-1 Builder > Recycle and preserve the planet > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284292#284292 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint touch ups here and there. We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury strut off the port side. Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd love to send her a photo. It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections, linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2. I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Thanks for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" run ups. So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to be born. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Date: Feb 01, 2010
GREAT NEWS, Douwe! I can hardly wait to see it at Brodhead this year. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint touch ups here and there. We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury strut off the port side. Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd love to send her a photo. It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections, linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2. I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Thanks for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" run ups. So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to be born. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Douwe, Congratulations on a job well done. Be safe my friend! Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Wow, congratulations! I can hardly wait to see it...and hear it! >From cooooold Warsaw IN....jm -----Original Message----- >From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: Feb 1, 2010 8:55 AM >To: pietenpolgroup >Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) > > >Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) > >Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think >because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep >double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem >to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint >touch ups here and there. > >We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as >my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury >strut off the port side. > >Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late >ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he >died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd >love to send her a photo. > >It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her >inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine >running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand >so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the >plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections, >linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done >with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2. > >I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and >help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead >or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Thanks >for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" run >ups. > >So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to be >born. > >Douwe > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Douwe: I celebrated your Chapter 1 by spending 30 minutes in my Piet on the 31St Jan., A bit chilly in Wis (20 Deg.) but not bad behind a warm radiator. Also spent some time flying my friends Fairchild F-24-R46, He had a stroke a number of years ago but kept his Fairchild, took a little doing getting him in his plane , but his expressions were fantastic to watch. I'm looking forward to your reactions as Chapter 2 commences. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284355#284355 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Very cool! That must be quite a feeling having it all together and ready to fly! I look forward to that day myself. I would be interested in a picture or two. (directly to me if you prefer.) - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Negative on that last remark...we all need to see the pictures! Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Michael Perez : > Very cool! That must be quite a feeling having it all together and > ready to fly! I look forward to that day myself. I would be > interested in a picture or two. (directly to me if you prefer.) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Great work Douwe. Rick On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > > Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) > > Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think > because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep > double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't > seem > to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint > touch ups here and there. > > We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as > my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury > strut off the port side. > > Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the late > ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he > died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd > love to send her a photo. > > It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her > inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine > running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand > so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the > plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections, > linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done > with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2. > > I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and > help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead > or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. > Thanks > for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" > run > ups. > > So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to > be > born. > > Douwe > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: congratulations Douwe !
Douwe sent some photos to the list a few weeks ago as I recall but I don't have them saved anywhere. And if I may Douwe, once the plane is reassembled at your local airport wil l you being doing the maiden flight ? Will you be based at an airport with turf runways by chance ? You get high marks on perseverance man ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Hearty Congrats Douwe.. Keep 'em Flyin'!! Al Lyscars Manchester, NH On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't seem to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and paint touch ups here and there. snip ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Great idea, kind of like those Tonneau covers they make for MGs and other sports cars: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MGB-TONNEAU-COVER-NEW-1193H-ROBBINS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2ea86275b2QQitemZ200393520562QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories My uncle had one on his MG when I was a kid, and based on those memories I have been planning on making a full cover for the front cockpit which several of you guys have mentioned did help in the winter. And a kind of Kayak seal for the back cockpit is a great idea. rick On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:16 PM, David Paule wrote: > > I learned aerobatics out in Southern California in an open-cockpit airplane > when I was a lot younger. Even in the summer, over Malibu, we needed to wear > gloves. I foolishly made a molded control stick grip then that still fits my > hand like a glove. That was the problem: I wasn't wearing gloves when I made > it, and it didn't fit when I put my flying gloves on. > > So if you're making cockpit controls, see if you can use them while wearing > gloves. > > Another man built a nice Fly-Baby. He had a clever cover. It snapped around > the cockpit rim at the level of the longerons and just below the instrument > panel. The cover had a jacket collar and zipper. He'd get in and zip it up > and from the neck down, he was in a closed-cockpit airplane. He said it was > very comfortable, flying with that. > > David Paule > > >> Hi Oscar, >> >> It has been in the teens here in upstate NY for some time now. Below zero >> at night. Only flying I have been doing is in the shop. >> >> I agree with your choice of hand wear. My hands get cold easy so when it >> gets really cold I wear down mitts with knit wool gloves as liners. This >> allows me to take my hand out of the mitt and have use of my fingers for a >> couple of minutes without them loosing their heat. I use this method when >> x-country skiing. >> >> I have been wondering lately what it would be like flying in the winter in >> an open cockpit airplane? >> >> Jon Coxwell >> >> -------- >> Jon Coxwell >> GN-1 Builder >> Recycle and preserve the planet >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284292#284292 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Date: Feb 01, 2010
CONGRATS!--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) > > > Well gang, (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) > > Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think > because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep > double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists, but can't > seem > to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and > paint > touch ups here and there. > > We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted as > my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury > strut off the port side. > > Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall, and lovingly brought along until the > late > ninties when his health stopped work, I bought the project in 03' when he > died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive, I'd > love to send her a photo. > > It is kinda weird to be done, but I am very excited about getting her > inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engine > running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand > so most of the bugs are worked out, but I haven't run the engine in the > plane, so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections, > linkages, etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm done > with chapter 1, and getting ready to start work on chapter 2. > > I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement and > help from the guys on this list, my annual re-energizing trips to Brodhead > or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. > Thanks > for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" > run > ups. > > So hopefully, another Ford powered, Jenny-geared time machine is about to > be > born. > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas helmet over that. I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it wupped my butt. Kevin Purtee NX899KP Houston Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
Kevin, How tall is your windscreen? I'm about to replace mine 'cause the 9"1/2 tall one I've got on the pilot 'pit just ain't cuttin' it for me. Too much wind gets down the back of my neck, even on a "warm" day. And, from what I understand, yes, putting a cover on the front cockpit helps keep your feet warmer. Of course, you could go nuts and put a cockpit heater in there, too. Cheers, Dan On 02/01/2010 11:33 AM, kevinpurtee wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "kevinpurtee" > > I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out& back) from Houston to Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700& warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. > > My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas helmet over that. > > I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. > > I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it wupped my butt. > > Kevin Purtee > NX899KP > Houston > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Mark, Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too. These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off that. Cheers, Dan On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) > > Hey Chet! > > I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need > folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You > can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. > > Thanks! > > Mark > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley > wrote: > > Mark, > I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. > Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? > Chet Hartley > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Roberts > *To:* pietenpol-list > *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! > > OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in > September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I > am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I > decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign > business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. > I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it > is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a > professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I > that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run > it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we > both were 'available' to start a new business.... > > BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs > and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the > legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 > wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them > into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig > perfectly following the coordinates... > > Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size > with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into > the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit > perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with > almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts > for one rib! > > Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and > bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new > pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in > (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy > :o) place I was very excited. > > I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil > and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for > those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap > strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of > those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. > > What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went > in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never > heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he > pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar > stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? > "Right there in that stack..." > > So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for > myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having > fun! :o) > > Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the > Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or > two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff > I must do... > > Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! > > Mark > > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike" <papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Cold-weather flyers: Take a tip from cold-weather motorcyclists. http://www.gerbing.com/ I use their gloves and vest; high quality stuff that really works. I've been comfortable in 15F at 70 mph. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 9:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying --> I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas helmet over that. I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it wupped my butt. Kevin Purtee NX899KP Houston Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: cold weather flying--from Mike Hardaway
Cold-weather flyers: Take a tip from cold-weather motorcyclists. http://www.gerbing.com/ I use their gloves and vest; high quality stuff that really works. I've been comfortable in 15F at 70 mph. Mike Hardaway papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: V Groah <vgroah(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...)
Date: Feb 01, 2010
WOW=2C great! I can imagine the good feelings. We hope to be at that stag e some time next year. We feel great for you. Have heard you have done a great job. We cannot go to Brodhead so maybe you will post some photos for those of us tethered to the west coast. Vic NX414MV > From: douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: NX799B is finished!! (mostly...) > Date: Mon=2C 1 Feb 2010 08:55:08 -0500 > thlink.net> > > Well gang=2C (to quote B.H. Pietenpol himself) > > Yesterday I (THINK) I attached the last piece to NX799B!! I say I think > because when you get to this point it all seems to become a blur. I keep > double and triple checking everything and making to-do lists=2C but can't seem > to find anything else needing to be done except a few adjustments and pai nt > touch ups here and there. > > We all went out to the workshop with glasses of grape juice and toasted a s > my wife and I attached the Johnson airspeed indicator to the wooden jury > strut off the port side. > > Started in 1990 by Bill Marshall=2C and lovingly brought along until the late > ninties when his health stopped work=2C I bought the project in 03' when he > died and have chugged along since. I hope his widow is still alive=2C I'd > love to send her a photo. > > It is kinda weird to be done=2C but I am very excited about getting her > inspected and torn down and reassembled at the grass strip to start engin e > running and taxi testing. The engine has run about 12 hrs on a test stand > so most of the bugs are worked out=2C but I haven't run the engine in the > plane=2C so I'll have to fine tune the installationa all connections=2C > linkages=2C etc. So I guess it would be more accurate to say that I'm don e > with chapter 1=2C and getting ready to start work on chapter 2. > > I honestly don't think I would have finished without the encouragement an d > help from the guys on this list=2C my annual re-energizing trips to Brodh ead > or the 25 years of Pietenpol newsletters that came with the project. Than ks > for all. Will keep you posted about the inspection and first "in plane" r un > ups. > > So hopefully=2C another Ford powered=2C Jenny-geared time machine is abou t to be > born. > > Douwe > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
Date: Feb 01, 2010
I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a half. With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than warm my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas helmet over that. I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it wupped my butt. Kevin Purtee NX899KP Houston Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
Copy that Jack. I too plan on having some type of duct work for heat for bo th front and rear seats. I assume you have them on/near the floor for your feet. Any pictures? --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:37 PM et> I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of difference.- Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving.- Temps were in the uppe r thirties.- The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a hal f. With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool balaclava that covered my face).- The heater doesn't do much other than w arm my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to Longview.- It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the uppe r 40s by the afternoon.- I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they' re ok.- Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. - If you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. My toes were the coldest thing on me.- Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not enough!- Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a hea vy flight jacket and a ski jacket.- I wear a full-face stocking and then hav e my canvas helmet over that. I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, i t wupped my butt. Kevin Purtee NX899KP Houston Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder
A steel tube Rotec powered Piet in the works---- watch the video for a peek . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhAE2lYCS8 (This gent is not on the discussion list but has contacted me offlist and I 'll forward any updates from him !) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Just a hole in the firewall near the floor. Nothing for the rear seat. Here's the only picture I have that shows it. The heat box was a "homebuilder's special" from AS&S Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 2:42 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying Copy that Jack. I too plan on having some type of duct work for heat for both front and rear seats. I assume you have them on/near the floor for your feet. Any pictures? --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 1:37 PM http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a half. With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than warm my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma tronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma tronics.com> ] On Behalf Of kevinpurtee Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kevin.purtee@us.army.mil> > I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. If you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have my canvas helmet over that. I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, it wupped my butt. Kevin Purtee NX899KP Houston Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet A href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target=_blank>http://forums.matrobsp; - List Contribution Web Site -http://www====================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: NX799 finished!
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
WOW!! Great news Douwe! Congratulations on arriving at a looooong sought goal. All of on this list can appreciate where you have been, and where you are now. Can't wait to see it and you at Brodhead. Your airplane is surely on e of your greatest works of art. What a feeling it must be to be at the en d of the "to do" list, and have nothing left to do. Reminds me of that sce ne in "Lilies of the Field" when the mother superior keeps asking Sydney Portier if he remembered to complete this and that (when he was building the chapel), and he just kept repeating "it's done, it's done". Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and post it for all. I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual components like a large model airplane kit.... I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... Thanks for any direction guys! Mark On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Mark, > > Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: > > http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting > > The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too. > > These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, so > it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off > that. > > Cheers, > Dan > > > On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > >> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) >> >> Hey Chet! >> >> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need >> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You >> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Mark >> >> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley > > wrote: >> >> Mark, >> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. >> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? >> Chet Hartley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Roberts >> *To:* pietenpol-list >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! >> >> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in >> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I >> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I >> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign >> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. >> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it >> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a >> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I >> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run >> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we >> both were 'available' to start a new business.... >> >> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs >> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the >> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 >> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them >> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig >> perfectly following the coordinates... >> >> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size >> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into >> the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit >> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with >> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts >> for one rib! >> >> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and >> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new >> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in >> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy >> :o) place I was very excited. >> >> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil >> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for >> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap >> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of >> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. >> >> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went >> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never >> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he >> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar >> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? >> "Right there in that stack..." >> >> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for >> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having >> fun! :o) >> >> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the >> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or >> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff >> I must do... >> >> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! >> >> Mark >> >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> * >> > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Owen Davies <owen5819(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
On 2/1/2010 1:06 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting That address gives a 404 error. Clip it to http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html to get through. Owen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: cold weather flying
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Jack; that photo of your (bare) fuselage and firewall is excellent, and should provide a very good study for those who are still in the layout and construction mode. Many, many details are visible in that photo and a lot can be learned by careful study of how things are routed and laid out. Excellent photo! Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Mark, There are guys who have, in the past, sold fully built ribs without a worry. I've heard tell that a full set of 20 fully constructed ribs would cost $300. So, I don't think there would be any problem selling the pre-cut pieces and letting the buyer put 'em together themselves. Cheers, Dan On 02/01/2010 04:12 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the > entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it > appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and > post it for all. > > I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I > can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for > the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by > the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling > the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut > dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the > individual components like a large model airplane kit.... > > I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... > > Thanks for any direction guys! > > Mark > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum > wrote: > > > > > Mark, > > Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: > > http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting > > The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that > database, too. > > These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar > locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and > get measurements off that. > > Cheers, > Dan > > > On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: > > Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) > > Hey Chet! > > I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils > and I need > folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, > etc. You > can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. > > Thanks! > > Mark > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley > > >> > wrote: > > Mark, > I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. > Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? > Chet Hartley > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Roberts > > *To:* pietenpol-list > > > *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! > > OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in > September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. > Since I > am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I > decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign > business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood > shop. > I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came > about, but it > is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a > professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told > Jason and I > that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us > to run > it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, > so we > both were 'available' to start a new business.... > > BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional > wing jigs > and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the > legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett > 613.5 > wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought > them > into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new > peg jig > perfectly following the coordinates... > > Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to > size > with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew > them into > the program and ran it today at the shop and got > press-to-fit > perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into > place with > almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut > the parts > for one rib! > > Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the > top and > bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new > pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the > parts in > (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for > some epoxy > :o) place I was very excited. > > I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 > airfoil > and I am looking into the legalities of making a few > kits for > those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap > strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to > cut all of > those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for > this wing. > > What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I > first went > in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd > never > heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he > pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified > Sitka Spar > stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? > "Right there in that stack..." > > So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for > myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but > I'm having > fun! :o) > > Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and > trim the > Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential > kit or > two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what > legal stuff > I must do... > > Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make > progress! > > Mark > > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * > > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov , http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Date: Feb 01, 2010
I'm not an attorney, but here goes anyway: More than likely, you'll find that while it might be entirely possible to fight off a lawsuit, you have no way to prevent someone from filing one in the first place. And fighting one off will not be cheap. But the probability of being sued is low. If you make the wood parts to match someone else's design, that adds a layer to your possible defense. If you design the parts too, then that adds to your potential liability. It might be worth seeking business liability insurance, so that in the unlikely event you do get sued, you've got some deep pockets on your side. Other than that, get the business started. Fear of failure prevented more good ideas from being realized than actual negligence. Now these are merely my own suggestions, and as I mentioned, I'm unqualified to give legal advice, and besides that, this is FREE, so you know what it's worth. But I've started and run two companies successfully. One was an aerospace structural analysis consultancy (where I never even bothered with the insurance), the other was in real estate management (where I do carry insurance). David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Roberts To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and post it for all. I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual components like a large model airplane kit.... I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... Thanks for any direction guys! Mark On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: Mark, Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+loftin g The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too. These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off that. Cheers, Dan On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) Hey Chet! I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. Thanks! Mark On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley > wrote: Mark, I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? Chet Hartley ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Mark Roberts *To:* pietenpol-list *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business.... BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig perfectly following the coordinates... Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts for one rib! Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited. I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? "Right there in that stack..." So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o) Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do... Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! Mark * " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution * * * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: Re: cold weather flying
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Jack, you covered your face with a "a rich, sweet pastry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry>made of layers of phyllo <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllo> dough<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dough>filled with chopped nuts <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_%28fruit%29> and sweetened with syrup<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrup>or honey <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey>."? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baklava I would think one of those bank robber ski masks would have been warmer......Oops sorry, you said balaclava not baklava, never mind. rick On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> > > I've got a front cockpit cover and cabin heat, and it makes a world of > difference. Last year I flew my Pietenpol from Raleigh to Smith Mountain > Lake, Virginia on the weekend after Thanksgiving. Temps were in the upper > thirties. The trip is about 90 nm, so it took right at an hour and a half. > With the front cockpit covered and the cabin heat going I was pretty > comfortable (wearing ski gloves, a leather navy flight jacket and a wool > balaclava that covered my face). The heater doesn't do much other than > warm > my feet, but if my feet are warm I can stand a LOT of cold. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Raleigh, NC > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > kevinpurtee > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:34 PM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cold weather flying > > > > I started flying NX899KP in September so there's been non-stop adventure > learning about flying in the cold (Texas cold, that is) the last 4 months. > Yesterday I flew a 400 mile cross country (200 out & back) from Houston to > Longview. It was in the low 30s when I left at 0700 & warmed to the upper > 40s by the afternoon. I use ski gloves with individual fingers and they're > ok. Need the individual fingers to punch GPS buttons and radio buttons. > If > you don't use those things then the mitts would likely work great. > > My toes were the coldest thing on me. Was wearing boots and heavy socks. > Not enough! Otherwise, I wear long johns, a t-shirt, a sweatshirt, a heavy > flight jacket and a ski jacket. I wear a full-face stocking and then have > my canvas helmet over that. > > I think a front cockpit cover would help a little bit. > > I will admit that between the length of time in the cockpit and the cold, > it > wupped my butt. > > Kevin Purtee > NX899KP > Houston > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284386#284386 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
I own a set. Bought 'em from the late Charlie Rubeck, for the rumored $300 (plus shipping). Charlie's workmanship was superb. I certainly couldn't beat it; certainly not for the price. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> >Sent: Feb 1, 2010 5:41 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! > > >Mark, > >There are guys who have, in the past, sold fully built ribs without a >worry. I've heard tell that a full set of 20 fully constructed ribs >would cost $300. So, I don't think there would be any problem selling >the pre-cut pieces and letting the buyer put 'em together themselves. > >Cheers, >Dan > > >On 02/01/2010 04:12 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: >> Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the >> entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it >> appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and >> post it for all. >> >> I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I >> can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for >> the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by >> the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling >> the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut >> dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the >> individual components like a large model airplane kit.... >> >> I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... >> >> Thanks for any direction guys! >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum > > wrote: >> >> > >> >> Mark, >> >> Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: >> >> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting >> >> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that >> database, too. >> >> These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar >> locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and >> get measurements off that. >> >> Cheers, >> Dan >> >> >> >> On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: >> >> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) >> >> Hey Chet! >> >> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils >> and I need >> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, >> etc. You >> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Mark >> >> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. >> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? >> Chet Hartley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Roberts > > >> *To:* pietenpol-list >> > > >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! >> >> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in >> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. >> Since I >> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I >> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign >> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood >> shop. >> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came >> about, but it >> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a >> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told >> Jason and I >> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us >> to run >> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, >> so we >> both were 'available' to start a new business.... >> >> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional >> wing jigs >> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the >> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett >> 613.5 >> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought >> them >> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new >> peg jig >> perfectly following the coordinates... >> >> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to >> size >> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew >> them into >> the program and ran it today at the shop and got >> press-to-fit >> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into >> place with >> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut >> the parts >> for one rib! >> >> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the >> top and >> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new >> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the >> parts in >> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for >> some epoxy >> :o) place I was very excited. >> >> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 >> airfoil >> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few >> kits for >> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap >> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to >> cut all of >> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for >> this wing. >> >> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I >> first went >> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd >> never >> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he >> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified >> Sitka Spar >> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? >> "Right there in that stack..." >> >> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for >> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but >> I'm having >> fun! :o) >> >> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and >> trim the >> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential >> kit or >> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what >> legal stuff >> I must do... >> >> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make >> progress! >> >> Mark >> >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> * >> >> >> -- >> Dan Yocum >> Fermilab 630.840.6509 >> yocum@fnal.gov , http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> >> * > >-- >Dan Yocum >Fermilab 630.840.6509 >yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Mark, I am an attorney and can give you some ideas. Contact me offline if you like. Gene Rambo ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Roberts<mailto:mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 5:12 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and post it for all. I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I can find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual components like a large model airplane kit.... I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... Thanks for any direction guys! Mark On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum > wrote: > Mark, Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+loftin g<http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+loft ing> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too. These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off that. Cheers, Dan On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) Hey Chet! I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. Thanks! Mark On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley >> wrote: Mark, I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? Chet Hartley ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Mark Roberts > *To:* pietenpol-list > *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we both were 'available' to start a new business.... BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig perfectly following the coordinates... Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts for one rib! Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy :o) place I was very excited. I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? "Right there in that stack..." So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having fun! :o) Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff I must do... Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! Mark * " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ntribution> * * * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum(at)fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: wildhorsesracing <wildhorsesracing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
I agree w/David - lawyers will only chase "deep pockets" - you might make a decent living off of selling ribs you will probably never get to the point of having deep pockets. Do a quality job and follow proven plans and you can defer most of the liability. If you are worried then simply set it up as a corporation to protect yourself. I have started 7 businesses over the years, some successful and some not, be more afraid of the sleep you'll lose when you think of all the opportunities you could've started but didn't because you were afraid of lawyers. -jim pantas www.wildhorsesracing.com ________________________________ From: David Paule <dpaule(at)frii.com> Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 5:42:50 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! I'm not an attorney, but here goes anyway: More than likely, you'll find that while it might be entirely possible to fight off a lawsuit, you have no way to prevent someone from filing one in the first place. And fighting one off will not be cheap. But the probability of being sued is low. If you make the wood parts to match someone else's design, that adds a layer to your possible defense. If you design the parts too, then that adds to your potential liability. It might be worth seeking business liability insurance, so that in the unlikely event you do get sued, you've got some deep pockets on your side. Other than that, get the business started. Fear of failure prevented more good ideas from being realized than actual negligence. Now these are merely my own suggestions, and as I mentioned, I'm unqualified to give legal advice, and besides that, this is FREE, so you know what it's worth. But I've started and run two companies successfully. One was an aerospace structural analysis consultancy (where I never even bothered with the insurance), the other was in real estate management (where I do carry insurance). David Paule ----- Original Message ----- >From: Mark > Roberts >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:12 > PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 > airfoil jig! > >Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have > downloaded the entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and > it appears to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and > post it for all. > >I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can > advise me where I can find info on the legal issues associated with selling > cut parts for the ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and > inspected by the builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply > selling the wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in > cut dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual > components like a large model airplane kit.... > >I'm not even sure what > kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... > >Thanks for any > direction guys! > >Mark > > >On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum > wrote: > >> >>Mark, >> >>Tons of >> airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: >> >>
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting >> >>The >> Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, >> too. >> >>These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or >> spar locations, so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get >> measurements off that. >> >>Cheers, >>Dan >> >> >> >> >>On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts >> wrote: >> >>Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) >>> >>>Hey >>> Chet! >>> >>>I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils >>> and I need >>>folks like you to suggest and help me find the right >>> airfoils, etc. You >>>can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: >>> 559-917-5904. >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Mark >>> >>>On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at >>> 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley >> >>>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Mark, >>> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing >>> jig. >>> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? >>> >>> Chet Hartley >>> >>> ----- Original >>> Message ----- >>> >>> *From:* Mark Roberts >>> >>> >>> *To:* pietenpol-list >>> >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM >>> >>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! >>> >>> >>> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss >>> in >>> September, I have made a stab at resuming >>> my Piet build. Since I >>> am getting no calls >>> from the recruiters and job boards, I >>> >>> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign >>> >>> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty >>> wood shop. >>> I'll spare ya the story about how >>> all of this came about, but it >>> is a good >>> match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a >>> >>> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and >>> I >>> that we had full reign over the router, >>> and he wanted us to run >>> it full time to make >>> money. See Jason was laid off too, so we >>> >>> both were 'available' to start a new business.... >>> >>> >>> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional >>> wing jigs >>> and wing kits for various planes. >>> I am not sure of the >>> legalities involved, >>> but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 >>> >>> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought >>> them >>> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) >>> and presto! A new peg jig >>> perfectly >>> following the coordinates... >>> >>> Then I >>> thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size >>> >>> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them >>> into >>> the program and ran it today at the >>> shop and got press-to-fit >>> perfect parts! It >>> is something to see a part fit into place with >>> >>> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the >>> parts >>> for one rib! >>> >>> >>> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top >>> and >>> bottom cap strips done, and I still need >>> to cut the new >>> pre-bending jig yet, but when >>> I finished snapping the parts in >>> (not too >>> tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy >>> >>> :o) place I was very excited. >>> >>> >>> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 >>> airfoil >>> and I am looking into the legalities >>> of making a few kits for >>> those that might >>> want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap >>> >>> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all >>> of >>> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply >>> gussets) for this wing. >>> >>> What was a real >>> trip about this wood shop was when I first went >>> >>> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd >>> never >>> heard of before) and asked if he >>> carried Sitka Spruce, he >>> pointed to a bin >>> and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar >>> >>> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my >>> gussets? >>> "Right there in that >>> stack..." >>> >>> So, instead of looking for >>> another job, I created one for >>> myself. >>> Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having >>> >>> fun! :o) >>> >>> Here's some pics >>> of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the >>> >>> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit >>> or >>> two, I can work up some numbers once I >>> find out what legal stuff >>> I must >>> do... >>> >>> Just an update. Hope to begin >>> posting again as I make progress! >>> >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> " >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>>* >>> >>> >>>* >>> >> >>-- >>Dan Yocum >>Fermilab 630.840.6509 >>yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >>"I fly because it releases my >> mind from the tyranny of petty things." >> >>========== >> >>st" >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>========== >>http://forums.matronics.com >>========== >>le, >> List >> Admin. >>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>========== >> >> >> >> > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Ken Perkin's Ford A
All, I'm sure someone with an A engine has already called up to Ken Perkins answering his call in the BPA newsletter about acquiring a new Dan Price aluminum head, but it got me to thinking - in the past year or so, someone mentioned another high-compression aluminum head for the A, but I'll be darned if I can find that message in the archive... It was called the Beast or something like that... Guess I'm getting older - CRS has taken a firm hold... Thanks, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
Subject: Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Dan, The Lion Speed Head, maybe?: http://www.secretsofspeed.com/LION.htm I want to say Larry Williams said he put one on his A.....I believe there was some concern of parts leaving the craft due to the increase in power and the higher speeds.... ;) Ryan On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > All, > > I'm sure someone with an A engine has already called up to Ken Perkins > answering his call in the BPA newsletter about acquiring a new Dan Price > aluminum head, but it got me to thinking - in the past year or so, someone > mentioned another high-compression aluminum head for the A, but I'll be > darned if I can find that message in the archive... It was called the Beast > or something like that... > > Guess I'm getting older - CRS has taken a firm hold... > > Thanks, > Dan > > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A
Yup. That's the one! I'm adding that to my bookmarks, now. You know, just in case I ponder building an A or B powered Piet in the future... Thanks, Dan On 02/01/2010 09:22 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Dan, > > The Lion Speed Head, maybe?: http://www.secretsofspeed.com/LION.htm > > I want to say Larry Williams said he put one on his A.....I believe > there was some concern of parts leaving the craft due to the increase in > power and the higher speeds.... ;) > > Ryan > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Dan Yocum > wrote: > > > > > All, > > I'm sure someone with an A engine has already called up to Ken > Perkins answering his call in the BPA newsletter about acquiring a > new Dan Price aluminum head, but it got me to thinking - in the past > year or so, someone mentioned another high-compression aluminum head > for the A, but I'll be darned if I can find that message in the > archive... It was called the Beast or something like that... > > Guess I'm getting older - CRS has taken a firm hold... > > Thanks, > Dan > > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov , http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ========== > st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: NX799B
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Thanks everybody for the kind words! Mike, I am going to base it up the river a bit from Lee Bottom. Ck your charts for "Crawdaddy" right by Carrolton on the river. Beautiful little private strip, flat as can be with nice approaches and 3100' long!! ...and lots of flat fields around... I'll send a pic to Dan Helsper to post since I can't seem to post photos somehow. I'll wait until after inspection and then put the sheet metal back on so it kinda looks done. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2010
If one can find a Funk Al head, it gives a 6.25 : 1 compression. I milled mine to give a 7 : 1, Works on an A or B. My first A would just turn 1800,and installing the Funk head, before milling, it turned 2100 and hauled 2 people very easily. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284568#284568 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 02, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Aluminum model A head....
I've got one of those fancy aluminum dual plug Model A heads (got it in a box of engine parts I bought 5 years ago) just sitting on my shelf. If someone talks to Ken, let him know he's more than welcome to use it if he wants. Not interested in selling it but it will just sit there for (at LEAST) a few years. I would love to have someone actually use it rather than have it just sitting collecting dust. JM -----Original Message----- >From: Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Feb 2, 2010 8:51 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ken Perkin's Ford A > > >If one can find a Funk Al head, it gives a 6.25 : 1 compression. I milled mine to give a 7 : 1, Works on an A or B. >My first A would just turn 1800,and installing the Funk head, before milling, it turned 2100 and hauled 2 people very easily. >Pieti Lowell > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284568#284568 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Bending Metal
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Hello All, Im bending the metal stabilizer attachment pieces using a small brake and getting good results. For my own piece of mind; should I have heated these when bending, or is cold bending (or the proper term) acceptable? I guess this applies to other pieces I will be making soon as well. Thanks, Steve Southern Maryland Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284587#284587 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2010
I already have the pile of 1/2 x 1/4 sticks and would love to have a jig. I had planned on using a 612 airfoil but would be amenable to the 613.5. Under that assumption that the Riblett airfoils are not protected by copyright/patent laws. I would think that a properly written release prior to sale would protect you from legal liabilities, especially in the experimental world. If you do get involved in the Type Certified biz, don't forget that Chief's/Champs also used wood ribs. Good luck in any event. Dave Aldrich Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284598#284598 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Bending Metal
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Hi Steve They don't need to be heated but they should have a small radius to the bend to prevent cracking. Most metal brakes that I have used do not have a means of making a radius=2C they make a hard 90 degree bend which i s not good. If your brake doesn't make a hard bend then you're good to go. Ed G. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Metal > From: chase143(at)aol.com > Date: Tue=2C 2 Feb 2010 07:18:09 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hello All=2C > I=99m bending the metal stabilizer attachment pieces using a small brake and getting good results. For my own piece of mind=3B should I have h eated these when bending=2C or is cold bending (or the proper term) accepta ble? I guess this applies to other pieces I will be making soon as well. > > Thanks=2C > Steve > Southern Maryland > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284587#284587 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending Metal
From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner(at)gmail.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Steve, To prevent cracking while bending the parts, make sure the bend radius is at least 1 material thickness, and up to 3 thicknesses. When I bend thin sheet materials (less than .25 thk.), I generally use 1.5 to 2 thicknesses as the bend radius. BTW, when you cut the pieces, make sure the grain of the metal is perpendicular to the bend line. Bending parallel to the grain almost always causes cracking, and reduces the strength of the finished part. After bending, inspect with a loup to make sure no cracks have formed. If there are any, discard the piece, and remake it, using a larger bend radius. Any pieces that are going to be flight critical, i.e., cabane, engine & strut fitting, landing gear brackets, etc., should have all edges sanded smooth (almost polished) after bending. This will help prevent crack propogation from the edges of the piece. My company, KCS Development, is in the process of putting together a complete Pietenpol metal fitting kit, which will be manufactured using all of the above techniques, and more. Please feel free to contact me offline if I can be of assistance. Tom Kreiner -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284606#284606 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Bending Metal
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Ed, Good point on the bending brakes. Steve, I filed my backing bar to a 1/8=9D radius. If I need a larger radius I insert extra metal Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 16 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed G. Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:14 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bending Metal Hi Steve They don't need to be heated but they should have a small radius to the bend to prevent cracking. Most metal brakes that I have used do not have a means of making a radius, they make a hard 90 degree bend which is not good. If your brake doesn't make a hard bend then you're good to go. Ed G. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bending Metal > From: chase143(at)aol.com > Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:18:09 -0800 > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > > Hello All, > I=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2m bending the metal stabilizer attachment pieces using a small brake and getting good results. For my own piece of mind; should I have heated these when bending, or is cold bending (or the proper term) acceptable? I guess this applies to other pieces I will be making soon as well. > > Thanks, > Steve > Southern Maryland > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284587#284587 > > > > > > > >=========== > > > _____ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.w'>Sign up now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending Metal
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: Feb 02, 2010
I found when squishing the ends of tubing for the rudder bar I would get cracks and poor looking ends when done cold. Heating to red and using a piece of 0.090 slipped into the end during the squish made a perfect looking end. If you dont already know Tony Bingelis has a series of good articles on making fittings. See Sport Aviation 9/1980, 10/1980 and 11/1980. These are also reprinted in one of his books; I think its the one with the blue cover. -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284614#284614 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Bending Metal
From: "chase143" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Great ideas. I tried to use a rounded piece of flat stock, but never thought of just filing the backing bar! I love this forum. Picture of first pieces attached, but I will look at with a loupe! Thanks again, Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284615#284615 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/first_metal_completed_pieces_124.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Mike, It's a small world, indeed. Jake was CC'd on an email to me sent from a close friend here in VA whose father knows Jake out in WA. I asked, "Who in the world is Jake Schultz?", and was referred to an Amazon.com listing for the book he wrote about Molt Taylor, designer of the Aerocar, Coit amphibian, and Mini-Imp, just to name a few. This, of course, was of interest to me because I've long fancied the Imp as a unique aircraft. Anyway, in a subsequent email it was revealed to me that Jake is also building a Rotec radial powered Piet with a steel tube fuselage. And know here you are, telling the whole world about my little secret. :) That sure likes it's going to be one really nice Piet when it's done. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:05 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" wrote: > A steel tube Rotec powered Piet in the works---- watch the video for > a peek. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhAE2lYCS8 > > (This gent is not on the discussion list but has contacted me > offlist and I=99ll forward any updates from him !) > > Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder
Date: Feb 02, 2010
Mike, It's a small world, indeed. Jake was CC'd on an email to me sent from a close friend here in VA whose father knows Jake out in WA. I asked, "Who in the world is Jake Schultz?", and was referred to an Amazon.com listing for the book he wrote about Molt Taylor, designer of the Aerocar, Coit amphibian, and Mini-Imp, just to name a few. This, of course, was of interest to me because I've long fancied the Imp as a unique aircraft. Anyway, in a subsequent email it was revealed to me that Jake is also building a Rotec radial powered Piet with a steel tube fuselage. And know here you are, telling the whole world about my little secret. :) That sure likes it's going to be one really nice Piet when it's done. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Feb 1, 2010, at 4:05 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" wrote: > A steel tube Rotec powered Piet in the works---- watch the video for > a peek. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhAE2lYCS8 > > (This gent is not on the discussion list but has contacted me > offlist and I=99ll forward any updates from him !) > > Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: NX799 finished!
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 03, 2010
Beautiful, Douwe! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284751#284751 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 03, 2010
Subject: Re: cold weather flying--from Mike Hardaway
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
After reading this website I can think of one other good reason to have a battery and generator/alternator, so you can plug in your coat, gloves, hat, and pants before taking off. rick On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:25 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Aerospace Corporation]" > > > Cold-weather flyers: Take a tip from cold-weather motorcyclists. > > http://www.gerbing.com/ > > > I use their gloves and vest; high quality stuff that really works. I've > been comfortable in 15F at 70 mph. > > Mike Hardaway > > > papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: O-200 ENGINE
Date: Feb 04, 2010
Col]uld the person who was looking for an O-200 engine last week send my an e mail. Or if anyone else is interested send me an e mail also. I have 1 with about 350 hrs on it. Dick N. horzpool(at)goldengate.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jack <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: O-200 ENGINE
Date: Feb 04, 2010
That's me Dick Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2010, at 12:42 PM, "Dick N" wrote: > Col]uld the person who was looking for an O-200 engine last week > send my an e mail. Or if anyone else is interested send me an e > mail also. I have 1 with about 350 hrs on it. > Dick N. > horzpool(at)goldengate.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2010
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Dave! I am re-working the rib and making a 612 rib as well. I will let you guys know if the progress as I make it. It seems a few of ya'll like the 612 so here I go!... Mark PS Thanks for the feed back! On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 8:07 AM, dgaldrich wrote: > dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> > > I already have the pile of 1/2 x 1/4 sticks and would love to have a jig. > I had planned on using a 612 airfoil but would be amenable to the 613.5. > > Under that assumption that the Riblett airfoils are not protected by > copyright/patent laws. I would think that a properly written release prior > to sale would protect you from legal liabilities, especially in the > experimental world. > > If you do get involved in the Type Certified biz, don't forget that > Chief's/Champs also used wood ribs. Good luck in any event. > > Dave Aldrich > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284598#284598 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2010
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Thanks Dave. Good analysis. I think I'll just go for it and see what happens. I will make the jogs first and see later about making wing kits... Thanks again! Mark On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:42 PM, David Paule wrote: > I'm not an attorney, but here goes anyway: > > More than likely, you'll find that while it might be entirely possible to > fight off a lawsuit, you have no way to prevent someone from filing one in > the first place. And fighting one off will not be cheap. But the probability > of being sued is low. > > If you make the wood parts to match someone else's design, that adds a > layer to your possible defense. If you design the parts too, then that adds > to your potential liability. > > It might be worth seeking business liability insurance, so that in the > unlikely event you do get sued, you've got some deep pockets on your side. > > Other than that, get the business started. Fear of failure prevented more > good ideas from being realized than actual negligence. > > Now these are merely my own suggestions, and as I mentioned, I'm > unqualified to give legal advice, and besides that, this is FREE, so you > know what it's worth. But I've started and run two companies successfully. > One was an aerospace structural analysis consultancy (where I never even > bothered with the insurance), the other was in real estate management (where > I do carry insurance). > > David Paule > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Roberts > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2010 3:12 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! > > Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the > entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it appears > to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and post it for > all. > > I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I can > find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for the > ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by the > builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling the > wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut > dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual > components like a large model airplane kit.... > > I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... > > Thanks for any direction guys! > > Mark > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > >> >> Mark, >> >> Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: >> >> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting >> >> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, too. >> >> These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, >> so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off >> that. >> >> Cheers, >> Dan >> >> >> >> On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: >> >>> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) >>> >>> Hey Chet! >>> >>> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need >>> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You >>> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley >> > wrote: >>> >>> Mark, >>> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. >>> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? >>> Chet Hartley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Mark Roberts >>> *To:* pietenpol-list >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM >>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! >>> >>> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in >>> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I >>> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I >>> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign >>> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. >>> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it >>> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a >>> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I >>> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run >>> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we >>> both were 'available' to start a new business.... >>> >>> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs >>> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the >>> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 >>> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them >>> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig >>> perfectly following the coordinates... >>> >>> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size >>> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into >>> the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit >>> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with >>> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts >>> for one rib! >>> >>> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and >>> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new >>> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in >>> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy >>> :o) place I was very excited. >>> >>> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil >>> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for >>> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap >>> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of >>> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. >>> >>> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went >>> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never >>> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he >>> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar >>> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? >>> "Right there in that stack..." >>> >>> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for >>> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having >>> fun! :o) >>> >>> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the >>> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or >>> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff >>> I must do... >>> >>> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >> >> -- >> Dan Yocum >> Fermilab 630.840.6509 >> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2010
Subject: Re: My new 613.5 airfoil jig!
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Guys! I really appreciate all of the advice. I really haven't tried this kinda thing before, and as always, fear of the unknown is greater than the actual monster in the closet. However, I covet the advice on this list, as the contributors are some of the nicest folks I have cooresponded with. Thanks again fellers (and fellas)! Mark On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Thanks Dave. > > Good analysis. I think I'll just go for it and see what happens. I will > make the jogs first and see later about making wing kits... > > Thanks again! > > Mark > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:42 PM, David Paule wrote: > >> I'm not an attorney, but here goes anyway: >> >> More than likely, you'll find that while it might be entirely possible to >> fight off a lawsuit, you have no way to prevent someone from filing one in >> the first place. And fighting one off will not be cheap. But the probability >> of being sued is low. >> >> If you make the wood parts to match someone else's design, that adds a >> layer to your possible defense. If you design the parts too, then that adds >> to your potential liability. >> >> It might be worth seeking business liability insurance, so that in the >> unlikely event you do get sued, you've got some deep pockets on your side. >> >> Other than that, get the business started. Fear of failure prevented more >> good ideas from being realized than actual negligence. >> >> Now these are merely my own suggestions, and as I mentioned, I'm >> unqualified to give legal advice, and besides that, this is FREE, so you >> know what it's worth. But I've started and run two companies successfully. >> One was an aerospace structural analysis consultancy (where I never even >> bothered with the insurance), the other was in real estate management (where >> I do carry insurance). >> >> David Paule >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Roberts >> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2010 3:12 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! >> >> Thanks Dan. You are right about that data base, as I have downloaded the >> entire database a couple of times. I did click on your link and it appears >> to be broken. I will see if I can locate a more current link and post it for >> all. >> >> I am wondering if there is anyone out there that can advise me where I can >> find info on the legal issues associated with selling cut parts for the >> ribs. I am thinking that if the wood is cut to size and inspected by the >> builder AND an FAA examiner, would that be enough for simply selling the >> wood cut to the specific dimensions? Aircraft Spruce sells it in cut >> dimensions, just not specifically to the size and shape of the individual >> components like a large model airplane kit.... >> >> I'm not even sure what kind of attorney I'd look for to advise on this... >> >> Thanks for any direction guys! >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: >> >>> >>> Mark, >>> >>> Tons of airfoil lofting coordinates can be found here: >>> >>> >>> http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html+airfoil+lofting >>> >>> The Cub uses a USA35B, if I recall correctly. It's in that database, >>> too. >>> >>> These are loftings, only. The don't have inter-strut or spar locations, >>> so it might be best to find a real Cub or Pacer rib and get measurements off >>> that. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> On 01/31/2010 11:51 AM, Mark Roberts wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Gary! Glad to know I was missed :o) >>>> >>>> Hey Chet! >>>> >>>> I don't yet have a Cub jig, but I plan to make a few airfoils and I need >>>> folks like you to suggest and help me find the right airfoils, etc. You >>>> can call me and we can chat off line if you'd like: 559-917-5904. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Chet Hartley >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Mark, >>>> I would be interested in the 613.5 wing jig. >>>> Do you have plans for a Cub jig as well? >>>> Chet Hartley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> *From:* Mark Roberts >>>> *To:* pietenpol-list >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 30, 2010 11:45 PM >>>> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: My new 613.5 airfoil jig! >>>> >>>> OK, after sitting on the side lines from a job loss in >>>> September, I have made a stab at resuming my Piet build. Since I >>>> am getting no calls from the recruiters and job boards, I >>>> decided to team up with a friend and start a wooden sign >>>> business here in Clovis out of his Dad's specialty wood shop. >>>> I'll spare ya the story about how all of this came about, but it >>>> is a good match, and get this: I work in a shop that owns a >>>> professional CNC router. In fact, the Dad (Al) told Jason and I >>>> that we had full reign over the router, and he wanted us to run >>>> it full time to make money. See Jason was laid off too, so we >>>> both were 'available' to start a new business.... >>>> >>>> BUT, I thought what a great way to make professional wing jigs >>>> and wing kits for various planes. I am not sure of the >>>> legalities involved, but I knew I needed a good Riblett 613.5 >>>> wing jig, so I took my previous CAD drawings and brought them >>>> into the software we use (EnRoute 4) and presto! A new peg jig >>>> perfectly following the coordinates... >>>> >>>> Then I thought about cutting all of the little sticks to size >>>> with the CNC to make the rib gussets and such. I drew them into >>>> the program and ran it today at the shop and got press-to-fit >>>> perfect parts! It is something to see a part fit into place with >>>> almost a snap! And it just takes a few minutes to cut the parts >>>> for one rib! >>>> >>>> Building still out of poplar, and I did already have the top and >>>> bottom cap strips done, and I still need to cut the new >>>> pre-bending jig yet, but when I finished snapping the parts in >>>> (not too tight, and not too loose... J'est right for some epoxy >>>> :o) place I was very excited. >>>> >>>> I know there are a few of you guys looking at the 613.5 airfoil >>>> and I am looking into the legalities of making a few kits for >>>> those that might want a jig, a pre-bending jig, and the cap >>>> strip and cut pieces that will save ya from having to cut all of >>>> those little parts (sticks and 1/16" ply gussets) for this wing. >>>> >>>> What was a real trip about this wood shop was when I first went >>>> in there and found out he had specialty wood (stuff I'd never >>>> heard of before) and asked if he carried Sitka Spruce, he >>>> pointed to a bin and said "There sits some certified Sitka Spar >>>> stock".... and what about some aircraft ply for my gussets? >>>> "Right there in that stack..." >>>> >>>> So, instead of looking for another job, I created one for >>>> myself. Unfortunately, there's no pay check (yet) but I'm having >>>> fun! :o) >>>> >>>> Here's some pics of the finished rib ready to glue and trim the >>>> Leading Edge... If anyone has an interest in a potential kit or >>>> two, I can work up some numbers once I find out what legal stuff >>>> I must do... >>>> >>>> Just an update. Hope to begin posting again as I make progress! >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dan Yocum >>> Fermilab 630.840.6509 >>> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >>> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." >>> >>> ========== >>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> ========== >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: paperwork display
Date: Feb 04, 2010
Hey, I need to figure out a way to have my paperwork (airworthiness cert) displayed correctly. Sounds like it needs to be in the front pit so "passengers and crew" and see it. How have you guys flying addressed this? Thanks D (guess I only thought I had installed the last piece!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 05, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: paperwork display
Right now I have mine displayed in the Pilots pit, but then my inspection isn't until next Friday. I spoke to the FAA inspector on the phone 3 times yesterday, and the way he describes the inspection, he goes around the plane showing things he'd like corrected, then moves on giving you time to fix the little things like too short/long bolts, etc. If he wants I can move the cert holder. One really cool question he asked on the phone was if I was going to apply for a repairman's certificate. I replied yes, and he said he would bring all the paperwork so we can get that taken care of at the same time! Even give me a temporary certificate before he leaves. I guess all that depends on the rest of the inspection going well. I spent this morning putting all the inspection covers back on, because I'm going to taxi over to our EAA chapter pancake breakfast on Saturday to show it off a little. I haven't taken any pictures of it fully assembled and complete, but I'll post some as soon as I do. Good Luck Douwe Ben On 2/4/2010 11:11 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > Hey, > > I need to figure out a way to have my paperwork (airworthiness cert) > displayed correctly. Sounds like it needs to be in the front pit so > "passengers and crew" and see it. How have you guys flying addressed this? > > Thanks > > D > > (guess I only thought I had installed the last piece!!) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 04, 2010
Subject: Re: paperwork display
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Douwe, As far as displaying your paperwork so "passengers and crew" can see it.......technically the FAR says "passengers OR crew", so the rear cockpit would ensure compliance; even if solo you as the 'crew' can see it. I browsed around WestCoastPiet.com (as always, thanks Chris!) a bit, and here is a selection of pics of various A/W cert placements that I found: N13691: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Ted%20Davis/IMG_2233.JPG Frank Pavliga: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Frank%20Pavliga/Brodhead__20070720_117.JPG Don Emch: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20Emch/DSCN0684.jpg Dick Navratil: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Dick%20Navratil/DSCF0124.JPG Roman Bukolt: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Roman%20Bukolt/Brodhead__20070720_178.JPG Kurt Shipman: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Kurt%20Shipman/P1010096.JPG They're all rear cockpit....for what that's worth. :P Have a good evening, Ryan (P.S.: Congrats on coming to the conclusion of your building journey. We hope you have a safe first flight!) On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> > > Hey, > > I need to figure out a way to have my paperwork (airworthiness cert) > displayed correctly. Sounds like it needs to be in the front pit so > "passengers and crew" and see it. How have you guys flying addressed this? > > Thanks > > D > > (guess I only thought I had installed the last piece!!) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: paperwork display
Date: Feb 05, 2010
I keep mine in my helmet box - which is where the FAA inspector told me to keep it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: paperwork display Hey, I need to figure out a way to have my paperwork (airworthiness cert) displayed correctly. Sounds like it needs to be in the front pit so "passengers and crew" and see it. How have you guys flying addressed this? Thanks D (guess I only thought I had installed the last piece!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Feb 05, 2010
Ryan, thanks for taking the time to send me those photos, very helpful!! Now I just gotta figure out where to get that nifty plastic sleeve thing. (kidding, I can probably work something out!) Ben, didn't know you were that close too. Good luck to you!! Inspection scheduled for Tuesday, weather permitting. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: paperwork display
Date: Feb 05, 2010
What's a helmet box? David Paule > I keep mine in my helmet box - which is where the FAA inspector told me to > keep it. > > Jack Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tenpol-List:
Date: Feb 05, 2010
From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
In the new (Feb) issue of Sport Aviation, the article on the Fisher Celebrity biplane has a cockpit picture that shows the plastic sleeve mounted on the back of the passenger's seat. Looks that would work in Piet too. --Ken wrote: > > > Ryan, thanks for taking the time to send me those photos, very helpful!! > Now I just gotta figure out where to get that nifty plastic sleeve thing. > (kidding, I can probably work something out!) > > Ben, didn't know you were that close too. Good luck to you!! > > Inspection scheduled for Tuesday, weather permitting. > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paperwork display
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2010
Here's how the papers are displayed in 41CC. One corner of the airworthiness certificate is just visible on the left; the data plate and registration are on the right. Weight & balance, operating limitations, and other required paperwork are in a pouch on the inside of the hinged pilot's seat back. I have no helmet box in the headrest area (flying helmet, David, as in leather or khaki like all the 'real' pilots wear) ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=284973#284973 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1080018_140.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paperwork display
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 05, 2010
Oscar, Do you fly with the cables loose? Do I see the turn buckle with a slight sag, or is some one hanging on a control surface ? It looks like your cockpit. Maybe camera distortion. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285001#285001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: paperwork display
Date: Feb 06, 2010
Lowell wrote: >Oscar, Do you fly with the cables loose? >Do I see the turn buckle with a slight sag, >or is some one hanging on a control surface? >Maybe camera distortion. No. Yes. No. No. Your eyes do not deceive. I should have explained that the picture was taken after the nose-over incident. At the time of the photo, the forward cabanes were crumpled, which relieved the tension on the brace wires and control cables, thus the slack. The face of the oil pressure gauge was cracked, the ignition key was broken off in the switch (Charlie's forehead paid the price for that), there was blood on the underside of the flop and wing centersection from where Charlie's forehead dripped as he hung upside-down in the cockpit, till he unbuckled the harness; the pilot's and passenger's seats were broken, and lots of other things were all ahoo. The airplane looks MUCH nicer now, I can assure you! Good observation, though. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Turtle Deck
Date: Feb 06, 2010
Happy Saturday All, Where the stringers come together at the rear of the deck, the "height" needs to be trimmed for the outside stringers. Is it easier to pre-trim the bottom to fit or have them secured full height then planed to the correct size? Thanks Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Turtle Deck
Date: Feb 06, 2010
Jack, I pre-trimmed the bottoms. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Happy Saturday All, Where the stringers come together at the rear of the deck, the "height" needs to be trimmed for the outside stringers. Is it easier to pre-trim the bottom to fit or have them secured full height then planed to the correct size? Thanks Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Turtle Deck
Ditto Gary's response...trim the BOTTOMS prior to install. --- On Sat, 2/6/10, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck Date: Saturday, February 6, 2010, 1:40 PM Jack, =C2- I pre-trimmed the bottoms. =C2- Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear (16 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turtle Deck =C2- Happy Saturday All, Where the stringers come together at the rear of the deck, the =9Chei ght=9D needs to be trimmed for the outside stringers.=C2- Is it eas ier to pre-trim the bottom to fit or have them secured full height then pla ned to the correct size? Thanks Jack DSM =C2- =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp:/ /forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Elevator horn twist
I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in line with the fus elage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips?- It appears when I line mine u p with the cables that the horn is at quite the angle...not sure if this wo uld have an effect on the air flow over the elevators.- Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the cables would put a side load on the horns.- Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
On NX18235 the elevator horns are angled to be in line with the cables. The rudder horn is twisted just at the tips. Flies just fine. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 2:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
The horns on our Piet are split evenly between the two approaches. I have no idea why. The plane has several hundred hours on it, I don't think it matters... >I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle >to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your >horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, >(in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It >appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at >quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air >flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the >cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you. > > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel horns, not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I could not see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I am really going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up with the cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle because the geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down (although not much). I had a friend who is an engineer (I know, this is not like me to engineer anything) do the math, and the side load on the horn is not very high at all, certainly not enough to bend 4130. Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am just thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before it is too late. Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos?? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez<mailto:speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 06, 2010
[ Gene, clamp a similar flat plate in a vice, pull 35 Lbs with a short cable, check for deflection and satisfy your sarofsify. Pieti Lowell ] Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285115#285115 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
I am not worried at all about the side forces. I am only thinking about appearances right now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pieti Lowell<mailto:Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:58 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator horn twist > [ Gene, clamp a similar flat plate in a vice, pull 35 Lbs with a short cable, check for deflection and satisfy your sarofsify. Pieti Lowell ] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285115#285115 .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285115#285115> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
I agree with Lowell, you could just test it in a vice. But, have you considered twisting the tip so that the pin wears on the flat of the horn hole radius, rather than the edge? If I was going to worry about anything, I would worry about the pin getting cut into by the 4130 radius edge. Which will be harder: 4130 or the pin? Probably the pin, so even THIS consideration isn't much of a concern...Just something to check at annual. >I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel >horns, not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I >could not see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I >am really going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up >with the cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle >because the geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down >(although not much). I had a friend who is an engineer (I know, >this is not like me to engineer anything) do the math, and the side >load on the horn is not very high at all, certainly not enough to >bend 4130. > >Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am >just thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before >it is too late. > >Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos?? > >Gene -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Michael, I installed mine at an angle. You might have a point about just twisting the tips so you don't lose any speed. Doing so would probably add at leas t 10-15 kts. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Gene, My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone thr ough this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't you will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the mo st eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
Dan, "darn you to heck!!" THAT is what I didn't want to hear! Of course, that is what I thought, I have gone to great extremes for the appearance of this plane, ai just don't want to ruin it now. I WAS ready to cover the tail and fuselage, but noooooooooo, now I gotta build horns. Darn you, darn you to heck (to paraphrase Mr. Heston) Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com<mailto:helspersew(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist Gene, My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone through this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't you will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the most eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: straight axle hub info
Date: Feb 06, 2010
Fellow Pieters: for those that have made the straight axle gear using the Henderson/Pavliga/Perkins style hubs, what size holes did you drill in the hubs for your spokes. I realize it is spoke size dependent, but my plans are to go with 9 ga. spokes from Buchanan's. I want to make sure that the hubs that I send to them are drilled correctly. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Gene, Sorry, don't kill the mesenger! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com> Sent: Sat, Feb 6, 2010 6:55 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist Dan, "darn you to heck!!" THAT is what I didn't want to hear! Of course, that is what I thought, I have gone to great extremes for the appearance of this plane, ai just don't want to ruin it now. I WAS ready to cover the tail and fuselage, but noooooooooo, now I gotta build horns. Darn you, darn you to heck (to paraphrase Mr. Heston) Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist Gene, My advise to you is change those horns and build to plans. I have gone thr ough this "wrestling" process (as you describe) with many things on this airplane. I always go back and change it to my gut feeling. If you don't you will always regret it. Besides, those control horns are one of the mo st eloquent design features on this airplane. Right? Making those horns to plans was one of the most rewarding parts of the construction process. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://w ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?Pietenpol-List ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Elevator horn twist
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Gene, I made mine out of flat 4130 sheet. The looked fine to me. Have a look down the bottom of page 11 on the web site (http://www.cpc-world.com). I angled them slightly toward the cable exit in the fuse. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Sunday, 7 February 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel horns, not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I could not see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I am really going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up with the cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle because the geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down (although not much). I had a friend who is an engineer (I know, this is not like me to engineer anything) do the math, and the side load on the horn is not very high at all, certainly not enough to bend 4130. Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am just thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before it is too late. Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos?? Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez <mailto:speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:59 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, (in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you. title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 06, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Elevator horn twist
N8031 has flat horns, with a short, 3/8" or so, section bent at a 90 degree angle for stiffening strength. They work, but they're not what the plans call for. Sorry, I don't have any pictures of these. It's kinda up to you... sounds like you're going to go the per the plans route. I'd probably do the same... Cheers, Dan On 02/06/2010 04:41 PM, Gene Rambo wrote: > I have been wrestling with this myself. I have 1/8" flat steel horns, > not streamlined per plans. I put them on straight because I could not > see having that flat plate out there at an angle. (like I am really > going to reduce the drag of a Piet) Also, if it lines up with the > cables, say at neutral, it won't line up at any other angle because the > geometry changes as the elevator moves up and down (although not much). > I had a friend who is an engineer (I know, this is not like me to > engineer anything) do the math, and the side load on the horn is not > very high at all, certainly not enough to bend 4130. > Now I am just obsessing with looks. The horns are installed, I am just > thinking whether to replace them with plans-built horns before it is too > late. > Does anyone else have flat steel horns that are straight?? Photos?? > Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Perez > *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > > *Sent:* Saturday, February 06, 2010 3:59 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Elevator horn twist > > I see in the plans that the elevator horns are installed at an angle > to be more in line with the cables. Did you guys just line up your > horns to be in line with the cables, or install the horns straight, > (in line with the fuselage or horiz. stab.) and twist the tips? It > appears when I line mine up with the cables that the horn is at > quite the angle...not sure if this would have an effect on the air > flow over the elevators. Only twisting the tips, seems to me, the > cables would put a side load on the horns. Thank you. > > * > > title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: straight axle hub info
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Rick, Why not ask Buchanan's? I'm sure they could tell you what they prefer. Here is a detail from the drawings I made for my hubs. I sent these hubs to Buchanan's and they made custom spokes and laced them for me. I dod not know what the gage on the spoke wire is, but they have worked just fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle hub info Fellow Pieters: for those that have made the straight axle gear using the Henderson/Pavliga/Perkins style hubs, what size holes did you drill in the hubs for your spokes. I realize it is spoke size dependent, but my plans are to go with 9 ga. spokes from Buchanan's. I want to make sure that the hubs that I send to them are drilled correctly. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Turtle Deck
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Jack you and I are near the same stage of construction on the fuselage. Looking good. I did like you and fitted the bottom side. I'm not trying to steal your thread...just didn't want to start another. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285207#285207 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a61_182.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: New Pictures
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Just updated my site with some new fuselage pictures. Hope it helps those at that stage. Jack DSM www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: straight axle hub info
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Rick, I used Buchanan's 9-10 ga SS spokes, they are about .140 tho. I drilled 3/16 holes which is about .185 tho. With the chamfer on both edges of the hole it was easy to lace the wheels. Skip Fellow Pieters: for those that have made the straight axle gear using the Henderson/Pavliga/Perkins style hubs, what size holes did you drill in the hubs for your spokes. I realize it is spoke size dependent, but my plans are to go with 9 ga. spokes from Buchanan's. I want to make sure that the hubs that I send to them are drilled correctly. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: straight axle hub info
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Jack and Skip, Thanks for the response. I tried calling Bucanan's Saturday, but only got a voicemail. I will either try e-mail or call them again tomorrow. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: 2/7/2010 6:21:53 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: straight axle hub info Rick, Why not ask Buchanans? Im sure they could tell you what they prefer. Here is a detail from the drawings I made for my hubs. I sent these hubs to Buchanans and they made custom spokes and laced them for me. I dod not know what the gage on the spoke wire is, but they have worked just fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: straight axle hub info Fellow Pieters: for those that have made the straight axle gear using the Henderson/Pavliga/Perkins style hubs, what size holes did you drill in the hubs for your spokes. I realize it is spoke size dependent, but my plans are to go with 9 ga. spokes from Buchanan's. I want to make sure that the hubs that I send to them are drilled correctly. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Made my leather coaming padding today
Date: Feb 07, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hello good people, I have completed my leather cockpit coaming, after much frustration and co nsternation. I finally came up with a very nice looking result, and I beli eve much easier method than what others have done. Basically the procedure is, to take the correct lenth pipe insulation (Home Depot)(sections glued together) and using spray adhesive (3M Foamfast 74 from Grainger), glue leather to pipe insulation, install grommets, and lace onto airplane. I will send photos of this procedure in the next few posts.-- Dan Helsper Leather is marked along edge to make a glued hem on two long edges. Spray on adhesive and then fold up hems on both long edges. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Leather coaming procedure, pg 3
Date: Feb 07, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Let this dry for about 1/2 hour. Next, split polyethelene tubing and apply to raw edge of aluminum. I used a few pieces of safety wire to hold it on, covered by black duct tape. I did a trial fit at this point so I could get a final length and sew it into the circle I needed. Now locate and drill 3/16 holes for lacing. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Made my leather coaming padding today
Date: Feb 07, 2010
.looking forward to that next set of pics!!! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:11 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made my leather coaming padding today Hello good people, I have completed my leather cockpit coaming, after much frustration and consternation. I finally came up with a very nice looking result, and I believe much easier method than what others have done. Basically the procedure is, to take the correct lenth pipe insulation (Home Depot)(sections glued together) and using spray adhesive (3M Foamfast 74 from Grainger), glue leather to pipe insulation, install grommets, and lace onto airplane. I will send photos of this procedure in the next few posts.-- Dan Helsper Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding038.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng038.jpg?t=1265568805> Leather is marked along edge to make a glued hem on two long edges. Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding042.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng042.jpg?t=1265569511> Spray on adhesive and then fold up hems on both long edges. Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding043.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng043.jpg?t=1265569622> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Leather coaming procedure, pg. 2, cont.
Date: Feb 07, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Next, punch holes and install grommets. I used size 00 (black oxide finish ) grommets. Next, mask-off grommeted edges and far ends of leather, and suspend foam with copper pipe, to facilitate spraying of glue. After spraying glue on leather and foam, wait for tack, then carefully dro p foam down on to the center of leather, rolling in each direction to get nice wrinkle-free roll. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Leather coaming- last page
Date: Feb 07, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the pil ot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. Hope this info helps somebody. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Made my leather coaming padding today
Congratulations Dan!- Beautiful work!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saludos - Santiago -=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo ! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
From: jboatri(at)emory.edu
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- last page
Unbelievably, almost painfully, beautiful workmanship. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Leather coaming procedure, pg 3
Date: Feb 07, 2010
I like it, Dan! That looks much easier than the method I used. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming procedure, pg 3 Let this dry for about 1/2 hour. Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding052.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng052.jpg?t=1265571040> Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding053.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng053.jpg?t=1265571103> Next, split polyethelene tubing and apply to raw edge of aluminum. I used a few pieces of safety wire to hold it on, covered by black duct tape. Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding024.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng024.jpg?t=1265571171> I did a trial fit at this point so I could get a final length and sew it into the circle I needed. Now locate and drill 3/16 holes for lacing. Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding013.jpg picture by dhelsper <http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/Cockpitcoamingleatherpaddi ng013.jpg?t=1265571333> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Yey another turtle-deck question
Date: Feb 07, 2010
>From pictures it looks like some leave their stringers square and other round out the tops. I would appreciate thoughts on the best way to go so the fabric will look pleasing. Thanks, Jack Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Yey another turtle-deck question
From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Hello Jack, I am another "rounding person" (have not covered yet) based on several recommendations, and looking at completed versions. Also, I asked for a recommendation fro the instructor when taking the Poly-fiber covering class, and they recommended rounding, as a general rule, whenever possible. Just another opinion. Cheers, Steve www.mypiet.com -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285262#285262 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Yey another turtle-deck question
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Jack I rounded because I don't plan on taping them before covering. If you choose to leave them with sharp corners I would for sure tape over them. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285263#285263 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Subject: Looking for the Riblett letter..
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Guys: I've just spent the last hour or so perusing the archives for something i remember seeing last year but now can't find. I thought it was posted on the forum, but it could have been on someone's website and I just missed it... It was a letter frn Harry Riblett on the analysis of teh original Piet airfoil (FC-10) and it's stall characteristics. If I remember correctly, it was a posted photocopy of the letter he wrote back to Piety Lowell regarding his selection of the 613.5 and 612 as better airfoils from his analysis. I wanted to re-read this again, but couldn't find it on the archives, searching from the beginning to end for 'Riblett'. Anyone with a better memory than me? Thanks guys... Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Yes another turtle-deck question
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Jack, Pretty sure the edges should be sanded slightly, at least. After that, and with all the reinforcing tapes, I doubt whether one looks better than another.and ALL look fantastic at 75mph and 500agl. JMO (Just My Opinion) Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 16 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Yey another turtle-deck question >From pictures it looks like some leave their stringers square and other round out the tops. I would appreciate thoughts on the best way to go so the fabric will look pleasing. Thanks, Jack Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Subject: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter..
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Mark, I think this is what you may be looking for: [image: ?ui=2&view=att&th=126aacb935f40d2d&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_126aacb935f40d2d&zw] If the image doesn't come through, here's a link to the file: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/riblett%20letter.jpg Have a good evening, Ryan On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Hey Guys: > > I've just spent the last hour or so perusing the archives for something i > remember seeing last year but now can't find. I thought it was posted on the > forum, but it could have been on someone's website and I just missed it... > > It was a letter frn Harry Riblett on the analysis of teh original Piet > airfoil (FC-10) and it's stall characteristics. If I remember correctly, it > was a posted photocopy of the letter he wrote back to Piety Lowell regarding > his selection of the 613.5 and 612 as better airfoils from his analysis. > > I wanted to re-read this again, but couldn't find it on the archives, > searching from the beginning to end for 'Riblett'. Anyone with a better > memory than me? > > Thanks guys... > > Mark > > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter..
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Mark, This is the first time I've seen this letter. I'm very certain Mr. Riblett is very knowledgeable on his designs, but I have to disagree with him on his comments about Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil. My Piet by no means has a sharp stall. It is very benign and very predictable. It is also very very slow, especially with a touch of power. The most surprising part of the letter is "Indeed, due to safety considerations, we strongly recommend this substitution." I could see if the Pietenpol had been plagued with stall accidents over the past 80 years, but it really hasn't. If there had been any complaints about a bad stall characteristic, which I've never heard, it was probably due to a rearward cg, which some Piets have. Please don't let anyone fool you. A properly built Pietenpol is a safe, docile, honest, and FUN airplane! I was all set to fly this weekend with the skis, but that 6" to 8" of snow we were forcasted to get turned into 26"!! Little too deep! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285280#285280 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: aileron horns
Date: Feb 07, 2010
My horns are flat stock, angled to line up with the cable. I think if something is just bugging you, and it doesn't go away, then you should probably take the time to re-do it. With all the other things to look at on a beautiful Piet, I don't really notice control horns, but ... that might be all you notice on your baby if you don't fix it. Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Subject: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter..
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Hey Ryan! This is EXACTLY the one I remember seeing, and could not locate it for the life of me. THANKS brother! I also remember reading somewhere that Mr. Riblett had recommended the 613.5 over the 612, and I thought that was in this letter, but after reading it I don't see it mentioned... Anyone remember if this is the case, or is my memory beginning to play tricks on me...? Thanks again Ryan. Mark On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Mark, > > I think this is what you may be looking for: > > [image: > ?ui=2&view=att&th=126aacb935f40d2d&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_126aacb935f40d2d&zw] > > If the image doesn't come through, here's a link to the file: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/riblett%20letter.jpg > > Have a good evening, > > Ryan > > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > >> Hey Guys: >> >> I've just spent the last hour or so perusing the archives for something i >> remember seeing last year but now can't find. I thought it was posted on the >> forum, but it could have been on someone's website and I just missed it... >> >> It was a letter frn Harry Riblett on the analysis of teh original Piet >> airfoil (FC-10) and it's stall characteristics. If I remember correctly, it >> was a posted photocopy of the letter he wrote back to Piety Lowell regarding >> his selection of the 613.5 and 612 as better airfoils from his analysis. >> >> I wanted to re-read this again, but couldn't find it on the archives, >> searching from the beginning to end for 'Riblett'. Anyone with a better >> memory than me? >> >> Thanks guys... >> >> Mark >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Subject: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter..
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
Oh Man! 26" of snow! It's one thing to read about the news and think "those poor saps!" It's another to know one of "those poor saps!" I hope you dig out soon! I appreciate your comments about the original Piet airfoil. I know this topic has seen quite a bit of discussion over the years (the earliest posts I saw were from '98 or '99), and I wasn't trying to kick over the safety issue again, although I do appreciate the comments. My thought was what Riblett said about the contrast of the 2 airfoils. I did not remember some of the issues involved. I know for me, at 6'4" and "two-hundred-and-none-your-business" fat pounds (Ok, 245 lbs with no clothes to cover the natural good looks of my fat), I am building the 613.5 because I remember seeing something that said it would have better lifting power in hot weather, something we get nothing BUT in the summers in Central California. As I see it, a design that has stood the test of over 80 years is not something you make great changes to unless there is a specific need (as in making the cockpit fit yer body, and making the wing better for your weight). Some would even argue that if that is the issue, find a plane that fits better. But after some 20 years of looking, this one meets almost all the criteria I need most: build at your own pay-comfort level, reliable, LSA, 2 seats and cool looking (well, cool enuf!) Thanks for the feedback! Mark On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Don Emch wrote: > > Mark, > > This is the first time I've seen this letter. I'm very certain Mr. Riblett > is very knowledgeable on his designs, but I have to disagree with him on his > comments about Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil. My Piet by no means has a sharp > stall. It is very benign and very predictable. It is also very very slow, > especially with a touch of power. The most surprising part of the letter is > "Indeed, due to safety considerations, we strongly recommend this > substitution." I could see if the Pietenpol had been plagued with stall > accidents over the past 80 years, but it really hasn't. If there had been > any complaints about a bad stall characteristic, which I've never heard, it > was probably due to a rearward cg, which some Piets have. Please don't let > anyone fool you. A properly built Pietenpol is a safe, docile, honest, and > FUN airplane! > > I was all set to fly this weekend with the skis, but that 6" to 8" of snow > we were forcasted to get turned into 26"!! Little too deep! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285280#285280 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter..
Date: Feb 07, 2010
I concur with everything Don Says. There is no sharp stall issue. Power off with the stick way back and it will simply mush down at about 5 - 600 fpm with the Johnson airspeed indicator wavering somwhere around 30 - 32 mph. Just keep the ball centered. Sharp stall reports might have more to do with leading edge shape than airfoil shape. Greg Cardinal Mineapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 8:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter.. > > Mark, > > This is the first time I've seen this letter. I'm very certain Mr. > Riblett is very knowledgeable on his designs, but I have to disagree with > him on his comments about Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil. My Piet by no means > has a sharp stall. It is very benign and very predictable. It is also > very very slow, especially with a touch of power. The most surprising > part of the letter is "Indeed, due to safety considerations, we strongly > recommend this substitution." I could see if the Pietenpol had been > plagued with stall accidents over the past 80 years, but it really hasn't. > If there had been any complaints about a bad stall characteristic, which > I've never heard, it was probably due to a rearward cg, which some Piets > have. Please don't let anyone fool you. A properly built Pietenpol is a > safe, docile, honest, and FUN airplane! > > I was all set to fly this weekend with the skis, but that 6" to 8" of snow > we were forcasted to get turned into 26"!! Little too deep! > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285280#285280 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 07, 2010
Subject: Re: Looking for the Riblett letter..
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Mark, I would agreed with Don and Greg about Mr. Riblett's thoughts on the Piet airfoil....while certainly interesting, they should be viewed with the understanding that they are purely theoretical. Riblett never built or flew a Pietenpol with his airfoil to prove his claims. The empirical knowledge provided by 80 years of Pietenpol airfoils flying around would tend to indicate that the negative characteristics he outlines are exaggerated to non-existent. As far as how much of a benefit you will actually see from the Riblett...I would say you have to look to Lowell for that, as he is the only one (despite all the talk about the Riblett) to have actually flown a Piet with the airfoil (that I have heard of, at least). Don't worry about those of us that have to deal with good ole' winter. We get to sit here and be glad we're not one of "those poor saps" that live in California! (Sorry Mark, Gary, Chris, Jim, et al.....couldn't resist) Have a good night, Ryan On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > Oh Man! 26" of snow! It's one thing to read about the news and think "those > poor saps!" It's another to know one of "those poor saps!" I hope you dig > out soon! > > I appreciate your comments about the original Piet airfoil. I know this > topic has seen quite a bit of discussion over the years (the earliest posts > I saw were from '98 or '99), and I wasn't trying to kick over the safety > issue again, although I do appreciate the comments. > > My thought was what Riblett said about the contrast of the 2 airfoils. I > did not remember some of the issues involved. I know for me, at 6'4" and > "two-hundred-and-none-your-business" fat pounds (Ok, 245 lbs with no clothes > to cover the natural good looks of my fat), I am building the 613.5 because > I remember seeing something that said it would have better lifting power in > hot weather, something we get nothing BUT in the summers in Central > California. > > As I see it, a design that has stood the test of over 80 years is not > something you make great changes to unless there is a specific need (as in > making the cockpit fit yer body, and making the wing better for your > weight). Some would even argue that if that is the issue, find a plane that > fits better. But after some 20 years of looking, this one meets almost all > the criteria I need most: build at your own pay-comfort level, reliable, > LSA, 2 seats and cool looking (well, cool enuf!) > > Thanks for the feedback! > > Mark > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Don Emch wrote: > >> >> Mark, >> >> This is the first time I've seen this letter. I'm very certain Mr. >> Riblett is very knowledgeable on his designs, but I have to disagree with >> him on his comments about Mr. Pietenpol's airfoil. My Piet by no means has >> a sharp stall. It is very benign and very predictable. It is also very >> very slow, especially with a touch of power. The most surprising part of >> the letter is "Indeed, due to safety considerations, we strongly recommend >> this substitution." I could see if the Pietenpol had been plagued with >> stall accidents over the past 80 years, but it really hasn't. If there had >> been any complaints about a bad stall characteristic, which I've never >> heard, it was probably due to a rearward cg, which some Piets have. Please >> don't let anyone fool you. A properly built Pietenpol is a safe, docile, >> honest, and FUN airplane! >> >> I was all set to fly this weekend with the skis, but that 6" to 8" of snow >> we were forcasted to get turned into 26"!! Little too deep! >> >> Don Emch >> NX899DE >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285280#285280 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> le, List Admin. >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: aileron horns
I have to agree with Douwe. The closer I get to my first flight, the more I wake up in the middle of the night and think of all the little things that I might have messed up without knowing it. Only 4 days till my airworthiness inspection... Ben Charvet NX866BC As close to 100% as I can get it without a test flight On 2/7/2010 9:32 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > My horns are flat stock, angled to line up with the cable. > > I think if something is just bugging you, and it doesn't go away, then you > should probably take the time to re-do it. With all the other things to > look at on a beautiful Piet, I don't really notice control horns, but ... > that might be all you notice on your baby if you don't fix it. > > Douwe > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- last page
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Very nice work Dan. How far from the edge of the aluminum did you drill the holes for the lacing? Rick On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > > A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform > and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord > I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. > > [image: Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding025.jpg picture by dhelsper] > > [image: Cockpitcoamingleatherpadding034.jpg picture by dhelsper] > > Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the > pilot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. > > Hope this info helps somebody. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- last page
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Rick, For example, the metal sticks out past the instrument palel 1 1/2", and th e lacing holes at that point are 1 1/4" in from the edge of the metal. Aro und the sharp curves the holes get a little closer to the edge of the meta l. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:55 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Very nice work Dan. How far from the edge of the aluminum did you drill th e holes for the lacing? Rick On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the pil ot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. Hope this info helps somebody. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph and Carol" <ralphhsd(at)itctel.com>
Subject: paper certificates
Date: Feb 08, 2010
After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about Perk's Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article but of greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper pilot certificates expiring on March 31, 2010. Am I the only person in the country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care of it on the internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post office and the "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off the paper application and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware of this. Ralph in the SD boondocks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: Dave and Connie <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: paper certificates
What is the URL to try to do the change? I hadn't heard about this either and will probably have the same problem as you. Dave Ralph and Carol wrote: > After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about > Perk's Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article > but of greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper > pilot certificates expiring on March 31, 2010. Am I the only person > in the country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care > of it on the internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post > office and the "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off > the paper application and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware > of this. > > Ralph in the SD boondocks > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: paper certificates
Date: Feb 08, 2010
I, too, was trying to avoid the paper/plastic issue and thought it was voluntary. I've had my old paper certificate for a long time now, along with my FCC radiotelephone license, and had no desire to go to plastic. Now there is no choice in the matter. I sent in the two bucks or whatever it is, and got my new credit card certificate. I later found out that the fee is waived if you also agree to change your certificate number to a generic number instead of your social security number, so my new plastic still has my SS number on it and it cost me a couple of bucks to make the change. Oh, well. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: paper certificates
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Here's the link: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/expiring_pa per_certificates/ David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: Ralph and Carol To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: paper certificates After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about Perk's Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article but of greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper pilot certificates expiring on March 31, 2010. Am I the only person in the country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care of it on the internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post office and the "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off the paper application and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware of this. Ralph in the SD boondocks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: paper certificates
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Here's the link: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/expiring_paper_certificates/ David Paule ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave and Connie" <dmatt(at)frontiernet.net> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 11:18 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paper certificates > > > What is the URL to try to do the change? I hadn't heard about this either > and will probably have the same problem as you. > Dave > > Ralph and Carol wrote: >> After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about Perk's >> Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article but of >> greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper pilot >> certificates expiring on March 31, 2010. Am I the only person in the >> country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care of it on >> the internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post office and >> the "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off the paper >> application and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware of this. >> Ralph in the SD boondocks >> * >> * > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: I hate Dan too now!
Date: Feb 08, 2010
I'm with Gene, after seeing Dan's coaming pics, I hate him too!! Makes mine look like some kids made it... Incredible workmanship! Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: paper certificates
Date: Feb 08, 2010
I just googled FAA airmans certificate replace and ity sent me to www.FAA .gov/licences_certificates/airman_certification/media/8060-56.pdf once t here I was able to print out a form to fill out and mail in. I'm sure glad someone brought this up on the list. Thanks Ralph > Date: Mon=2C 8 Feb 2010 13:18:49 -0500 > From: dmatt(at)frontiernet.net > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: paper certificates > net> > > What is the URL to try to do the change? I hadn't heard about this > either and will probably have the same problem as you. > Dave > > Ralph and Carol wrote: > > After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about > > Perk's Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article > > but of greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper > > pilot certificates expiring on March 31=2C 2010. Am I the only person > > in the country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care > > of it on the internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post > > office and the "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off > > the paper application and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware > > of this. > > > > Ralph in the SD boondocks > > * > > * > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: I hate Dan too now!
Dan, if we ever end up at the same fly-in, please do not park your plane next to mine. It looks ridiculously nice. Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures and description of your technique. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Douwe Blumberg : > > > I'm with Gene, after seeing Dan's coaming pics, I hate him too!! > > Makes mine look like some kids made it... > > Incredible workmanship! > > Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: I hate Dan too now!
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Steve, You can be sure there are plenty of flaws on mine. I will point them out when I park next to you. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:51 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I hate Dan too now! > Dan, if we ever end up at the same fly-in, please do not park your plane next to mine. It looks ridiculously nice. Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures and description of your te chnique. Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting Douwe Blumberg : earthlink.net> > > I'm with Gene, after seeing Dan's coaming pics, I hate him too!! > > Makes mine look like some kids made it... > > Incredible workmanship! > > Douwe ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: paper certificates
One problem I've noticed if you fly as a Sport Pilot and have a Private cert, you don't get any mailings direct from the FAA, since I guess they use the Medical database to decide if you are active. A few years ago they started requiring your license to verify you can speak English. I got that taken care of at Sun-N-Fun 2 years ago. I got my first plastic card for free, as I had lost my paper one and noticed on the website they were changing your license number away from SS# and you can get a plastic version for free with this change. Ben On 2/8/2010 11:56 AM, Ralph and Carol wrote: > After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about > Perk's Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article > but of greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper > pilot certificates expiring on March 31, 2010. Am I the only person > in the country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care > of it on the internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post > office and the "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off > the paper application and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware > of this. > Ralph in the SD boondocks > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Subject: Re: paper certificates
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Verify you can speak English for a license? What till the ACLU gets hold of this information. On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > One problem I've noticed if you fly as a Sport Pilot and have a Private > cert, you don't get any mailings direct from the FAA, since I guess they use > the Medical database to decide if you are active. A few years ago they > started requiring your license to verify you can speak English. I got that > taken care of at Sun-N-Fun 2 years ago. I got my first plastic card for > free, as I had lost my paper one and noticed on the website they were > changing your license number away from SS# and you can get a plastic version > for free with this change. > > Ben > On 2/8/2010 11:56 AM, Ralph and Carol wrote: > > After reading several posts about the Sport Aviation article about Perk's > Piet my copy finally arrived last week. It was a good article but of > greater concern was a short article on page 10 about our paper pilot > certificates expiring on March 31, 2010. Am I the only person in the > country who was totally unaware of this? I tried to take care of it on the > internet but I live on a farm and get my mail at the post office and the > "system" wouldn't recognize my address. I did run off the paper application > and mailed it in. Heads up if you weren't aware of this. > > Ralph in the SD boondocks > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Subject: beauuutiful work Dan--cockpit leather combing
Aha-again another guy who has, reads, and uses some of the excellent ideas in the Tony Bingelis books. I used a very similar method Dan but used leather shoe lace materials from Walmart. PS-Dan, does that combing behind you adversely affect your comfort on your upper back or shoulders ? I've spoken to a number of builders who removed that combing around the bac kside because it became bothersome once the plane was flying. Hopefully this isn't true in your case because it sure does have a fantastic look ! Mike C. PS-and Dan, I don't hate you. I can't hate a brother. No way. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: paper certificates
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 08, 2010
When you receive your new plastic card you will also have a new issue date. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285463#285463 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Subject: I smell a Lindy award, 2010 style
I think if Dan takes his plane to Oshkosh he'll come home with a Lindy. I would love to see that happen !!! Mike C. [ NEWS ] Latest News<http://www.airventure.org/news/latest.html> Awards / Aircraft Awards<http://www.airventure.org/awards/> Media Room<http://www.airventure.org/media/> AirVenture Site Plans<http://www.airventure.org/siteplan/> Lindy Aircraft Awards [cid:image001.jpg(at)01CAA8DD.5788C3A0]Only the best of the best can count the mselves among those lucky enough to have won the prestigious Lindy Award. Unlike other awards which recognize lifetime or professional achievement, t he only way you can earn a Lindy Award is to be judged the Grand Champion o r Reserve Grand Champion at in one of eleven competitive categories at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh. Named after aviation hero Charles Lindbergh, the award acknowledges the tir eless effort necessary to create an aircraft that's truly best of show. The Grand Champion in each category is presented the Golden Lindy, while the R eserve Grand Champion nets the Silver Lindy. But the Lindy Award is more than a mere beauty contest. Judges are more imp ressed by workmanship than a nice paint job and, in the case of vintage/war bird aircraft, authenticity over shiny chrome. The personality of the aircr aft owner has no bearing on the judging - the only thing that matters is th e quality of the work. This means that a Lindy Award winner possesses a bea uty that is far more than skin deep. Past Lindy Award winners<http://www.airventure.org/awards/index.html> FUTURE AIRVENTURE DATES: 2011: July 25-31; 2012: July 23-29; 2013: July 2 9-Aug. 4 Copyright (c) 2010 EAA, Inc. All content, logos, pictures, and videos are the property of the EAA, Inc. <http://www.travelwisconsin.com>[cid:image003.jpg@01CAA8DD.5788C3A0]<http://www.travelwisconsin.com>EAA Aviation Cent er, 3000 Poberezny Road, Oshkosh, WI 54902 <http://www.oshkoshcvb.org/>[cid:image004.jpg@01CAA8DD.5788C3A0]<http://www.oshkoshcvb.org/>If you have any comments or qu estions contact webmaster(at)eaa.org. Disclaimer/Privacy Policy<http://www.eaa.org/disclaimer.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 2010
From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- last page
Dan, This is really beautiful work. Did you have to wet the leather to get it to make those curves with minimal wrinkling? John S. ________________________________ From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:13:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Rick, For example, the metal sticks out past the instrument palel 1 1/2", and the lacing holes at that point are 1 1/4" in from the edge of the metal. Around the sharp curves the holes get a little closer to the edge of the metal. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:55 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Very nice work Dan. How far from the edge of the aluminum did you drill the holes for the lacing? Rick On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > > >A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. > > > >Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the pilot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. > >Hope this info helps somebody. > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > > >> > > >" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >tp://forums.matronics.com >_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Little Helpers
Date: Feb 08, 2010
Just enjoyed planning my turtle deck stringers. Items that made it a little easier were some fixtures (holders) that have come in very handy throughout my project. They are just two small squares of plywood glued and nailed to a block of wood. The space in the middle is one inch, which served as a nice support under my spars many times during the build. The attached pictures tell the story better than I. Jack DSM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- last page
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
John, No, that is the job of the contact cement-type spray adhesive. After it is all glued together it acts very much like a pepperoni sausage skin. Very tight up against the roll. There is wrinkling, but they are perfectly uni form mini-wrinkles. I really like the appearance, even more that if there were no wrinkles at all. My personal opinion. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 6:07 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Dan, This is really beautiful work. Did you have to wet the leather to get it to make those curves with minimal wrinkling? John S. From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:13:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Rick, For example, the metal sticks out past the instrument palel 1 1/2", and th e lacing holes at that point are 1 1/4" in from the edge of the metal. Aro und the sharp curves the holes get a little closer to the edge of the meta l. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:55 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Very nice work Dan. How far from the edge of the aluminum did you drill th e holes for the lacing? Rick On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the pil ot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. Hope this info helps somebody. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ======================== =========== " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List== ======================== ========= p://forums.matronics.com ======================== blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== ======================== = ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Coaming leather- one last thing
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I had one last thought concerning this method of leather coaming. A big ad vantage is that it can be accomplished with minimal leather. I made mine all one piece because I had a whole hide, with one sewn seam, but it coul d be easily constructed using a few sewn-together smaller pieces. Maybe an old leather coat for example. I believe this would still look very good, only difference is it would have maybe 3 or 4 seams instead of one. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: beauuutiful work Dan--cockpit leather combing
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Mike, Thank you for the kind words. I wasn't aware that this was addressed in th e Bingelis books. Learned the hard way. I did a "trial-fit" with me sittin g in both cockpits and it is not even close to getting in my way. But I am only 5' 8" and 150 Lbs. I guess it might be a consideration if one was ta ller, or they raised their seat from the plans (a-hem). Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cu y(at)nasa.gov> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 3:36 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: beauuutiful work Dan--cockpit leather combing Aha=94again another guy who has, reads, and uses some of the excelle nt ideas in the Tony Bingelis books. I used a very similar method Dan but used leather shoe lace materials from Walmart. PS=94Dan, does that combing behind you adversely affect your comfort on your upper back or shoulders ? I=99ve spoken to a number of builders who removed that combing aroun d the backside because it became bothersome once the plane was flying. Hopefully this isn=99t true in your case because it sure does have a fantastic look ! Mike C. PS=94and Dan, I don=99t hate you. I can=99t hate a bro ther. No way. ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Multi-Function Power Tool opinions?
From: "sharpknives" <vincentreed77(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2010
yeah i do recommend the Harbor Freight Multi Function Power Tool because for me it is true that the tool has of sufficient quality. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285585#285585 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: beauuutiful work Dan--cockpit leather combing
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Mikeee asked- >does that combing behind you adversely affect your >comfort on your upper back or shoulders ?I've spoken >to a number of builders who removed that combing >around the backside because it became bothersome >once the plane was flying. It's funny, because I rarely find myself leaning back against the seat back while flying. I seem to want to lean forward to get out of the propwash/blast. I think one time I even wondered why I bothered with padding on the seat back. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Cooling Ears
Date: Feb 09, 2010
For those that might be using the stock, 12 fin oil cooler on a Corvair, with cooling ears, this was an intense little project. First I had to learn how to bend the metal around a welding rod. .then that tricky little vent to route the air over the oil cooler. These cooling ears are Hans van der Voort designs, increase by 1" on the front. The access vent for the oil cooler is a total hip-shot on my part. If anyone sees a problem..PLEASE speak up! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (16 ribs down.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Vicious Pietenpol stall
Somebody was wondering about the vicious Pietenpol stall... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoIecJ9PAAU -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Fw: Fw: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP
Date: Feb 09, 2010
----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: FW: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP How to create Homer Simpson, step by step ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Vicious Pietenpol stall
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Great Video! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vicious Pietenpol stall > > Somebody was wondering about the vicious Pietenpol stall... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoIecJ9PAAU > -- > > Jeff Boatright > "Now let's think about this..." > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP
Tim, This is *not* apropreate for the Pietenpol-List. Do not post this type of material on the List. Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator. At 09:13 AM 2/9/2010 Tuesday, Tim White wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > >Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:32 PM >Subject: FW: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP > > > How to create Homer Simpson, step by step ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Subject: Vicious Pietenpol stall
Nice video Jeff. That stall is so violent that it seems to cause your prop to spin backwards even. You have enough life insurance to perform two successive power off stalls ???? And though I'm not a flight instructor can I mention just one thing as the stall breaks Jeff......right rudder:)) You know I'm just treating you like I would Jim Markle. Be flattered ! On colder days (like with other light planes like non-electric Cubs and Champs) you can power off stall a Pietenpol with full stick aft, power at idle and she just mashes down, never really breaks into a nose-plop (that is a technical term by the way) and you can just hold full aft stick and keep the nose straight by playing the rudder gently. I always worry on hot days carrying a passenger....but to do full power stalls in a Piet, mine doesn't stall until I'm quite nose high and the ASI is below 30 mph.. though I don't try that over the wires climbing out nor recommend it. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Vicious Pietenpol stall
> >And though I'm not a flight instructor can I mention just one thing >as the stall >breaks Jeff......right rudder:)) I was over-compensating for the weight of the massive video camera bolted to the right cabane... -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP
Hey Matt, I would recommend checking your spam filter or whatever. This wasn't sent by Tim. I would wager that his email was somehow grabbed/used by some other system... Not sure how those things work but this isn't something Tim would send to this list... -----Original Message----- >From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> >Sent: Feb 9, 2010 12:25 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Fw: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP > > >Tim, > >This is *not* apropreate for the Pietenpol-List. Do not post this type of material on the List. > >Matt Dralle >Matronics Email List Administrator. > > >At 09:13 AM 2/9/2010 Tuesday, Tim White wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >>Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:32 PM >>Subject: FW: HOW TO CREATE HOMER SIMPSON STEP BY STEP >> >> >> How to create Homer Simpson, step by step > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Vicious Pietenpol stall
And fun subtexts.... almost makes you feel like you're there....for those "ooooooh scary" stalls..... -----Original Message----- >From: Tim White <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> >Sent: Feb 9, 2010 12:25 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vicious Pietenpol stall > > >Great Video! > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu> >To: >Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:50 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vicious Pietenpol stall > > >> >> Somebody was wondering about the vicious Pietenpol stall... >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoIecJ9PAAU >> -- >> >> Jeff Boatright >> "Now let's think about this..." >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Subject: Re: Coaming leather- one last thing
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Dan Any opinion on the use of fake/simulated leather fabric rather than real leather? rick On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:53 AM, wrote: > > I had one last thought concerning this method of leather coaming. A big > advantage is that it can be accomplished with minimal leather. I made mine > all one piece because I had a whole hide, with one sewn seam, but it could > be easily constructed using a few sewn-together smaller pieces. Maybe an old > leather coat for example. I believe this would still look very good, only > difference is it would have maybe 3 or 4 seams instead of one. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coaming leather- one last thing
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Rick, Being in the industrial sewing business, I have first hand experience work ing with that type of material. The stuff with the knit backing is what yo u want. It is very stretchy, slightly more than a soft cowhide. While neve r having tried it, I would think it would certainly work as good, and migh t even work better as far as wrinkling is concerned. Try a small section and bend, to see what it will do. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 12:30 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Coaming leather- one last thing Dan Any opinion on the use of fake/simulated leather fabric rather than real leather? rick On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 6:53 AM, wrote: I had one last thought concerning this method of leather coaming. A big ad vantage is that it can be accomplished with minimal leather. I made mine all one piece because I had a whole hide, with one sewn seam, but it coul d be easily constructed using a few sewn-together smaller pieces. Maybe an old leather coat for example. I believe this would still look very good, only difference is it would have maybe 3 or 4 seams instead of one. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Subject: Re: Cooling Ears
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Hey Gary I used Hans van der Voort's plans also and I also made my openings about an inch higher. I didn't see a need to wrap the sides of the oil cooler as you did but it definitely shouldn't hurt. After getting the templates made from poster-board I realized that I needed to make a hole to check the oil and then realized I needed six more holes if I wanted to be able to pull the plugs without removing the ears. Someone on this group (maybe Markle) suggested using kitchen sink hole inserts to cover the holes and they worke d fine. Attached some pics. Rick On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Gary Boothe wrote: > For those that might be using the stock, 12 fin oil cooler on a Corvair, > with cooling ears, this was an intense little project. First I had to lea rn > how to bend the metal around a welding rod=85 > > > =85then that tricky little vent to route the air over the oil cooler=85 > > > These cooling ears are Hans van der Voort designs, increase by 1=94 on th e > front. The access vent for the oil cooler is a total hip-shot on my part. If > anyone sees a problem=85.PLEASE speak up! > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, Ca. > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > (16 ribs down=85) > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coaming leather- one last thing
From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
Date: Feb 09, 2010
SW1hZ2luZSBob3cgY29vbCByZWFsIGxlYXRoZXIgd2lsbCBsb29rIGFmdGVyIDIwIHllYXJzIG9m IHdlYXIuDQoNCkplcmVteSBCcmFtYWxsDQpTZW50IHZpYSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5IGZyb20gVC1Nb2Jp bGUNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IFJpY2sgSG9sbGFuZCA8YXQ3 MDAwZnRAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KRGF0ZTogVHVlLCA5IEZlYiAyMDEwIDEzOjMwOjQxIA0KVG86IDxw aWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0 OiBDb2FtaW5nIGxlYXRoZXItIG9uZSBsYXN0IHRoaW5nDQoNCkRhbg0KDQpBbnkgb3BpbmlvbiBv biB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIGZha2Uvc2ltdWxhdGVkIGxlYXRoZXIgZmFicmljIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIHJl YWwNCmxlYXRoZXI/DQoNCnJpY2sNCg0KT24gVHVlLCBGZWIgOSwgMjAxMCBhdCA2OjUzIEFNLCA8 aGVsc3BlcnNld0Bhb2wuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPg0KPiBJIGhhZCBvbmUgbGFzdCB0aG91Z2h0 IGNvbmNlcm5pbmcgdGhpcyBtZXRob2Qgb2YgbGVhdGhlciBjb2FtaW5nLiBBIGJpZw0KPiBhZHZh bnRhZ2UgaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBjYW4gYmUgYWNjb21wbGlzaGVkIHdpdGggbWluaW1hbCBsZWF0aGVy LiBJIG1hZGUgbWluZQ0KPiBhbGwgb25lIHBpZWNlIGJlY2F1c2UgSSBoYWQgYSB3aG9sZSBoaWRl LCB3aXRoIG9uZSBzZXduIHNlYW0sIGJ1dCBpdCBjb3VsZA0KPiBiZSBlYXNpbHkgY29uc3RydWN0 ZWQgdXNpbmcgYSBmZXcgc2V3bi10b2dldGhlciBzbWFsbGVyIHBpZWNlcy4gTWF5YmUgYW4gb2xk DQo+IGxlYXRoZXIgY29hdCBmb3IgZXhhbXBsZS4gSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoaXMgd291bGQgc3RpbGwg bG9vayB2ZXJ5IGdvb2QsIG9ubHkNCj4gZGlmZmVyZW5jZSBpcyBpdCB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIG1heWJl IDMgb3IgNCBzZWFtcyBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIG9uZS4NCj4NCj4gRGFuIEhlbHNwZXINCj4gUG9wbGFy IEdyb3ZlLCBJTC4NCj4NCj4NCg0KDQotLSANClJpY2sgSG9sbGFuZA0KQ2FzdGxlIFJvY2ssIENv bG9yYWRvDQoNCiJMb2dpYyBpcyBhIHdyZWF0aCBvZiBwcmV0dHkgZmxvd2VycywgdGhhdCBzbWVs bCBiYWQiDQoNCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vicious Pietenpol stall
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Jeff; my experience is exactly like what Mikeee describes. Power off, the stick comes full aft and can be held there with the airplane mushing, nose ever so slightly trying to bob, rudders holding the nose straight, and maybe 30-32 MPH showing on the clock (but not very accurate, given the angle of attack of the pitot tube). Question on your carb heat setup. It looks like you have a small scoop facing forward to draw air into the heat muff. Do you have any pictures of that? On my airplane, I took a hardware store chromed brass P-trap, cut it in half so I had a ninety (quarter-bend) with one end flared to slip over the inlet neck to the heat muff, and I fastened that to the heat muff with some sheet metal screws. I also added a flat plate in the fork of the exhaust manifold to make the air go around much more heated surface. Works great, and I get much better temp rise through the carb heat setup with it than the way it was before, which barely dropped RPM at all on runup check. Picture attached. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285676#285676 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p5120002_564.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Vicious Pietenpol stall
Oscar, I didn't get the picture attachment. We do have a pipe extending the intake on the carb heat muff, but it is scalloped rearwards. The store-bought heat muff (AS PN 08-00473) fits such that the intake pipe faces a bit forwards. This allows too much forced air through the muf and not enough heat gets to the carb. Had a real problem one cold, damp morning last winter where there was just not enough heat to keep up with the ice. Since adding the scalloped pipe, no problem. We also have lots of stainless steel wool stuffed into the muff, but the scalloped pipe is still necessary. We get a good 50 rpm drop with this set-up, no matter the ambient temp. So far. A fairly lame photo is attached. Jeff > >Jeff; my experience is exactly like what Mikeee describes. Power >off, the stick comes full aft and can be held there with the >airplane mushing, nose ever so slightly trying to bob, rudders >holding the nose straight, and maybe 30-32 MPH showing on the clock >(but not very accurate, given the angle of attack of the pitot tube). > >Question on your carb heat setup. It looks like you have a small >scoop facing forward to draw air into the heat muff. Do you have >any pictures of that? On my airplane, I took a hardware store >chromed brass P-trap, cut it in half so I had a ninety >(quarter-bend) with one end flared to slip over the inlet neck to >the heat muff, and I fastened that to the heat muff with some sheet >metal screws. I also added a flat plate in the fork of the exhaust >manifold to make the air go around much more heated surface. Works >great, and I get much better temp rise through the carb heat setup >with it than the way it was before, which barely dropped RPM at all >on runup check. Picture attached. > >-------- >Oscar Zuniga >San Antonio, TX >Air Camper NX41CC > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Subject: cooling eyebrow aluminum material--important
RGVhciBJbmZpZGVscywgDQoNClJlbWVtYmVyIHRvIHVzZSAwMDAwIGRlYWQgc29mdCBhbHVtaW51 bSB3aGVuIG1ha2luZyB5b3VyIGNvb2xpbmcgZXllYnJvd3MgaW4gb3JkZXINCmZvciB0aGVtIHRv IGhhdmUgbG9uZyBsaWZlLiAgSWYgeW91IHVzZSAyMDI0IFQzIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBsYXN0IGJ1dCBu b3QgbmVhcmx5IGFzDQpsb25nIGJlZm9yZSBjcmFja2luZy4gICANCg0KQWxzbyBhIG5pY2UgaGVt IGF0IHRoZSBmcm9udCB3aWxsIGhlbHAgYWxsZXZpYXRlIGNyYWNrcyBmcm9tIHByb3BhZ2F0aW5n IGZyb20gdGhhdA0KaGlnaC1zdHJlc3MgcmVnaW9uIGFuZCB0aGUgaGVtIHdpbGwgc3RyZW5ndGhl biB0aGUgd29yayBwaWVjZSBuaWNlbHksIHByZWZlcmFibHkgd2l0aA0KYSB0aGluIGRpYW1ldGVy IHN0YWlubGVzcyBzdGVlbCB3ZWxkaW5nIHJvZCAoMS8xNiIgZGlhbWV0ZXIgb3Igc28pIHdlYXZl ZCBpbiB0aGUgY3JlYXNlDQpvZiB0aGUgaGVtLiAgIA0KDQpBZ2FpbiB0aGUgVG9ueSBCaW5nZWxp cyBlbmdpbmUgYm9vayAoSSBiZWxpZXZlKSBjb3ZlcnMgY29vbGluZyBleWVicm93IGZhYnJpY2F0 aW9uIGlmIG5vdA0KbWlzdGFrZW4uIA0KDQpNaWtlIEMuIA0KDQoNCg= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: handheld radios
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Starting to think about a radio, as I'll hopefully be flying this spring. I'd appreciate input based on your experiences. Also, should one get a nav/com or just a com? thanks, Douwe ps. inspection now postponed 'til Thursday. Pray for NO snow!!! pss. I don't really hate Dan either, but I'm not sure I want him parking next to me either... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: cooling eyebrow aluminum material--important
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Forgive me Father, for I have sinned...I used 6061 left over from the ill-fated 601 project. I know...I'll say a whole bunch of Hail Mary's... Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 16 ribs done -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrow aluminum material--important Dear Infidels, Remember to use 0000 dead soft aluminum when making your cooling eyebrows in order for them to have long life. If you use 2024 T3 they will last but not nearly as long before cracking. Also a nice hem at the front will help alleviate cracks from propagating from that high-stress region and the hem will strengthen the work piece nicely, preferably with a thin diameter stainless steel welding rod (1/16" diameter or so) weaved in the crease of the hem. Again the Tony Bingelis engine book (I believe) covers cooling eyebrow fabrication if not mistaken. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Subject: leftover 6061
Save your Hail Mary's Gary for when your 6061 starts flapping uncontrollably in your propwash and rips a chunk off swirling it around your jugular taking out some center section fabric and banging up your tailfeathers on one side ! Kidding. No Hail Marys req'd no matter what aluminum you use for cooling eyebrows. The good news is that by the time you have to replace them with another set that no matter what aluminum you choose for that next set they will turn out even nicer than the first set. Just the law of airplane building. The second and third set of any part is always the nicest ! Glad you ditched the Zenith 601 project. The Pietenpol has a much lower fatality record. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: handheld radios
Douwe, I've been using an old Sportys with Nav/Com in my Baby Ace for 3 years. I've never used the Nav part. I bought an inexpensive Vertex VXA 220 for the Piet. It has rechargable batteries and a sideband(?) function where you can hear yourself through your headset. Also comes with headset adapter. What I really liked about this one was the large display, which I can read without reading glasses. I think you can pick one of them up for around $180. http://www.airportpilotshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VXA-220 On another cool note, my airworthiness inspection was just moved UP to Thursday. We have the potential to have the same "born-on" date. Ben On 2/9/2010 4:39 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Douwe Blumberg" > > Starting to think about a radio, as I'll hopefully be flying this spring. > > I'd appreciate input based on your experiences. > > Also, should one get a nav/com or just a com? > > thanks, > > Douwe > > ps. inspection now postponed 'til Thursday. Pray for NO snow!!! > > pss. I don't really hate Dan either, but I'm not sure I want him parking > next to me either... > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Subject: Re: handheld radios
I have been thinking about radios also. I am building a different plane (mustang II) but am hoping to draw some info from your discussion here. I'm not aware of any Mustang owners with a handheld as the primary radio. I was trying to weigh the pros and cons of using a handheld versus a panel mount. Maybe they are best for open cockpit? Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: cooling eyebrow aluminum material--important
We use 3003-H14 for the metal forming demos at Sun 'n Fun. This is a half-hard alloy that forms easily and can be torch annealed if you work it too much. Widely used for lots of non-structural applications, including aircraft parts. We've also had the graces of a loaner bead roller from Mittler Brothers in years passed, along with a goodly set of assorted dies. Included in the set has been the stuff to make a wire-rolled edge. One of our guys made himself a nice set of eyebrows for his J-5 a couple years back. Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> >Sent: Feb 9, 2010 4:29 PM >To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: cooling eyebrow aluminum material--important > >Dear Infidels, > >Remember to use 0000 dead soft aluminum when making your cooling eyebrows in order >for them to have long life. If you use 2024 T3 they will last but not nearly as >long before cracking. > >Also a nice hem at the front will help alleviate cracks from propagating from that >high-stress region and the hem will strengthen the work piece nicely, preferably with >a thin diameter stainless steel welding rod (1/16" diameter or so) weaved in the crease >of the hem. > >Again the Tony Bingelis engine book (I believe) covers cooling eyebrow fabrication if not >mistaken. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: handheld radios
Date: Feb 09, 2010
My preference would be just the com. That said, I've occasionally found it useful to get a cross-bearing on a VOR while happily flying along, guided by my GPS. David Paule > Also, should one get a nav/com or just a com? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: I hate Dan too now!
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Did anyone else notice the nice inlays at the bottom of the instrument panel? Way cool. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Vicious Pietenpol stall
Date: Feb 09, 2010
That looked just downright dangerous, Jeff. :) Thanks for sharing that video. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > > > > Somebody was wondering about the vicious Pietenpol stall... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoIecJ9PAAU > -- > > Jeff Boatright > "Now let's think about this..." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Vicious Pietenpol stall
I'm still having flashbacks. In between shots, of course. > > >That looked just downright dangerous, Jeff. :) > >Thanks for sharing that video. > >Wayne Bressler Jr. >Taildraggers, Inc. >taildraggersinc.com > >On Feb 9, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > >> >>Somebody was wondering about the vicious Pietenpol stall... >> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoIecJ9PAAU >>-- >> >>Jeff Boatright >>"Now let's think about this..." >> -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: I hate Dan too now!
I did. And I saw them when I visited Dan a couple weeks ago. They look even nicer in person.... -----Original Message----- >From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> >Sent: Feb 9, 2010 5:47 PM >To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com" >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I hate Dan too now! > > >Did anyone else notice the nice inlays at the bottom of the instrument >panel? Way cool. > >Wayne Bressler Jr. >Taildraggers, Inc. >taildraggersinc.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- last page
Thanks, Dan. One last (?) question: How wide was the leather piece before you rolled the edges? I was able to buy some leftovers from an upholsterer, and I hope it's enough. Thanks also for all the effort and time you've put into making and posting this fabulous set of instructions and photos. John Smoyer ________________________________ From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 6:29:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page John, No, that is the job of the contact cement-type spray adhesive. After it is all glued together it acts very much like a pepperoni sausage skin. Very tight up against the roll. There is wrinkling, but they are perfectly uniform mini-wrinkles. I really like the appearance, even more that if there were no wrinkles at all. My personal opinion. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 6:07 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Dan, This is really beautiful work. Did you have to wet the leather to get it to make those curves with minimal wrinkling? John S. ________________________________ From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:13:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Rick, For example, the metal sticks out past the instrument palel 1 1/2", and the lacing holes at that point are 1 1/4" in from the edge of the metal. Around the sharp curves the holes get a little closer to the edge of the metal. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:55 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Very nice work Dan. How far from the edge of the aluminum did you drill the holes for the lacing? Rick On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: > > >A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. > > > >Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the pilot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. > >Hope this info helps somebody. > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > > >> > > >" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >tp://forums.matronics.com >_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: handheld radios
Date: Feb 09, 2010
Since I'm building an old time plane and have to have a radio ( and mode C transponder ) I would really prefer that this stuff is as unobtrusive as possible. So I purposely bought an old Delcom with all the controls on the end. I spent hours trying to figure out where to put that *&#% transponder so that I could see the numbers and work the dials. I think it's going down on the side by my right leg lying against the diagonal. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: handheld radios I have been thinking about radios also. I am building a different plane (mustang II) but am hoping to draw some info from your discussion here. I'm not aware of any Mustang owners with a handheld as the primary radio. I was trying to weigh the pros and cons of using a handheld versus a panel mount. Maybe they are best for open cockpit? Boyce ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/09/10 11:35:00 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Visiting w/Piet builders
Following Jim Markle's lead, I try to visit other Pietenpol builders when I know I'm in their neighborhood. My son and I spent a great afternoon with Bill Sayer in Gig Harbor, WA today and all I can say is that Bill is headed for an award.....he's been working on his Piet since 1974 !!!! Anyone know of a longer build time? - Truly, he's done a nice job with a steel tube fuse,-wings almost done and a good looking Ford engine waiting to be fired. All the pieces are there a nd about to go together.....maybe for the 85th anniversary, Bill?? I absolu tely LOVED the firewall made from a galvanized drip-pan, He's centered it s o the embossed logo will be visible through the radiator mount legs for a n ice "period touch". - Super to see what others are doing and how they're doing it. Way to go, Bil l! - Larry - -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Potential Pietenpol Engine
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Here is a potential Pietenpol engine, and it's an aircraft engine - not one of those unreliable auto engine conversions http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/for/1593965254.html Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Leather coaming- Detailed instructions
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi John, The width of the cut pieces is 6-1/2". Then spray glue a 1" wide strip on each long edge, wait for tack, and fold-up to make a 1/2" hem. I elected to glue these hems instead of sewing them, because a lock-stitched seam will not stretch as much, and you need that. Find center of overall lengt h, mark-out hole patterns from center. Punch holes, but not all the way ou t to the end. Now install grommets in the holes that are punched. Mask off grommeted edges, and also about the last 4 inches of the far ends. Insert 1/2" copper pipe into pipe insulation, spray glue both the leather and pi pe insulation (avoid same last 4 inches). Wait for tack, and CAREFULLY lay pipe insulation down in exact center-line of leather. Roll pipe insulatio n back and forth to "pick-up" and stick to the leather. Press all areas by hand to make sure good you have good contact. After it dries do trial fit on airplane and determine exact location of last sewn seam. I noticed min e shrunk just a bit during the gluing process, so it is best to leave both ends a little long until this point. I actually had to glue an additional extension onto my pipe insulation to make it come out right. Now cut to finish length and sew into loop. This is the reason you don't want to ini tially glue all the way to the end. You will need these last few inches lo ose in order to get it under the sewing machine to finish-sew. Now that yo u have made that last sewn seam, you can go back and lay-out those last fe w holes that you did not punch. You may have to "fudge" the hole spacing to get it to look uniform and finished. Install those last few grommets. Now you can glue the remainder of the "sausage" together near the last se wn seam. This is trick with this contact cement, because as you know, the glue must be applied to both surfaces and allowed to tack-up, before mati ng. You may have to use a brush to apply, and insert pencils or sticks in between the leather/foam, and then remove after tack and carefully lay to gether. Tricky because yu only get one chance at positioning. Make sure yo u get glue on all the surfaces otherwise you will end up with a bulge or wrinkle. I got a little of this, but oh well. (Now you know one of the fl aws). One more thing. On all of the sewn seams, go back and sew down the "wings" flat to either side, so excess seam leather lays flat and does not form a bulge. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 8:46 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Thanks, Dan. One last (?) question: How wide was the leather piece befor e you rolled the edges? I was able to buy some leftovers from an upholste rer, and I hope it's enough. Thanks also for all the effort and time you've put into making and posting this fabulous set of instructions and photos. John Smoyer From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 6:29:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page John, No, that is the job of the contact cement-type spray adhesive. After it is all glued together it acts very much like a pepperoni sausage skin. Very tight up against the roll. There is wrinkling, but they are perfectly uni form mini-wrinkles. I really like the appearance, even more that if there were no wrinkles at all. My personal opinion. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: John Smoyer <mox499(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 6:07 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Dan, This is really beautiful work. Did you have to wet the leather to get it to make those curves with minimal wrinkling? John S. From: "helspersew(at)aol.com" <helspersew(at)aol.com> Sent: Mon, February 8, 2010 10:13:43 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Rick, For example, the metal sticks out past the instrument palel 1 1/2", and th e lacing holes at that point are 1 1/4" in from the edge of the metal. Aro und the sharp curves the holes get a little closer to the edge of the meta l. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 8:55 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leather coaming- last page Very nice work Dan. How far from the edge of the aluminum did you drill th e holes for the lacing? Rick On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM, wrote: A slight bit of wrinkling is evident in the curves, but it is very uniform and goes good with my "distressed" leather. I used round leather lacing cord I bought on line from Leather Cord USA. Lacing, about 1/2 way done. Originally my coaming metal stopped at the pil ot back rest, but I added a piece to get more of a true "pit" look. Hope this info helps somebody. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List p://forums.matronics.com blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ======================== =========== " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List== ======================== ========= p://forums.matronics.com ======================== blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== ======================== = ======================== =========== " target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List== ======================== ========= p://forums.matronics.com ======================== blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution========== ======================== = ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: nothing to do with Piets but
it is about a concept aircraft; www.wired.com/autopia/2010/01/nasa-puffin/ I'm more interested in the idea of electric engines and the possibility of putting one in my Piet someday and or my N3 Pup. t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=================================== =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Potential Pietenpol Engine
It's going to need a good cleaning first.Lots of dust on that engine!=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jack Phi llips =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: W ed, February 10, 2010 8:13:50 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Potential Piete npol Engine=0A=0A=0AHere is a potential Pietenpol engine, and it=99s an aircraft engine =93 not one of those unreliable auto engine conver sions=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://portland.craigslist.org/clc/for/1593965254.html=0A =C2-=0A=C2-=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0ARaleigh, NC=0A=C2-=0A =C2- =0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List=0Ahttp://forums.m =============== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Potential Pietenpol Engine
That would require a lot of modifying to work with the Pietenpol airframe.. .right up my alley! If someone wants to buy the engine and get it running, I'll do the plane mods... - - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Potential Pietenpol Engine
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Jack, That would be quite an engine for a Piet, but can it do this (see attached)? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 16 ribs done From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 5:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Potential Pietenpol Engine Here is a potential Pietenpol engine, and it's an aircraft engine - not one of those unreliable auto engine conversions http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/for/1593965254.html Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: Sonex offering smoke kit for $220
Of possible interest: http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/accessori es/index.html (I put my smoke system in for under $25, requires no electrics) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: SubSonex uses this jet engine
This might make for easier W&B issues as opposed to the J57 at 8,000 pounds . Fuel burn would be more affordable too:) Cost is 41,000 EUR or about $56,000 US.....engine only. http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Sonex offering smoke kit for $220
Yeah, but theirs has that nifty Aerovee decal. They don't just give those things away, ya know. > >Of possible interest: ><http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/accessories/index.html>http://www.aeroconversions.com/products/accessories/index.html > >(I put my smoke system in for under $25, requires no electrics) > > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: Gary's cutaway Corvair powered Spaceship One
Oh my God is that hilarious ! Wynne must have made Rutan drink the Coolaid ! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Visiting w/Piet builders
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Larry, You made my day! I thought I had been working on my Piet a long time. Started mine August 3, 1991. Working on the rudder horn/tailwheel steering horns today. Skip ,.....he's been working on his Piet since 1974 !!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike" <papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com>
Subject: SubSonex uses this jet engine
Date: Feb 10, 2010
I dunno Mike, 40 gph for not much more capability than an O-200 isn't all that affordable. Mike Hardaway _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:26 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: SubSonex uses this jet engine This might make for easier W&B issues as opposed to the J57 at 8,000 pounds. Fuel burn would be more affordable too:-) Cost is 41,000 EUR or about $56,000 US...engine only. <http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58> http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike" <papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Gary's cutaway Corvair powered Spaceship One
Date: Feb 10, 2010
We gotta keep Boothe away from Photoshop. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary's cutaway Corvair powered Spaceship One Oh my God is that hilarious ! Wynne must have made Rutan drink the Coolaid ! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: Re: SubSonex uses this jet engine
Jim Franklin had a Stearman with a jet engine strapped to the bottom. It got such poor "mileage" that he trailered it 107 SM from Ponca City to Fairview for the airshow rather than fly 71NM. Quite a show. Big radial sound with a jet whine overlay. Throttles forward, roll about 150 feet and then climb straight up (and I mean straight up) a thousand feet and start doing aerobatics. So There is your answer. A Pockety, pockety model A in the nose and a jet strapped to the bottom. Don't forget the trailer for trips. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike <papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:34 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: SubSonex uses this jet engine > I dunno Mike, 40 gph for not much more capability than an O-200 > isn't all > that affordable. > Mike Hardaway > > > _____ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Cuy, Michael > D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:26 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: SubSonex uses this jet engine > > > > This might make for easier W&B issues as opposed to the J57 at > 8,000 pounds. > > Fuel burn would be more affordable too:-) > > Cost is 41,000 EUR or about $56,000 US...engine only. > > > <http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58> > http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: SubSonex uses this jet engine
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Correct, except it was a Waco UPF-7, not a Stearman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHOF4eXC2o4&feature=related Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh. NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:43 AM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: SubSonex uses this jet engine Jim Franklin had a Stearman with a jet engine strapped to the bottom. It got such poor "mileage" that he trailered it 107 SM from Ponca City to Fairview for the airshow rather than fly 71NM. Quite a show. Big radial sound with a jet whine overlay. Throttles forward, roll about 150 feet and then climb straight up (and I mean straight up) a thousand feet and start doing aerobatics. So There is your answer. A Pockety, pockety model A in the nose and a jet strapped to the bottom. Don't forget the trailer for trips. Blue Skies, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike <papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:34 Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: SubSonex uses this jet engine > I dunno Mike, 40 gph for not much more capability than an O-200 > isn't all > that affordable. > Mike Hardaway > > > _____ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Cuy, Michael > D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:26 AM > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: SubSonex uses this jet engine > > > This might make for easier W&B issues as opposed to the J57 at > 8,000 pounds. > > Fuel burn would be more affordable too:-) > > Cost is 41,000 EUR or about $56,000 US...engine only. > > > <http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58> > http://minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=58 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: carb heat
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Jeff; now that I see the pic you posted, I understand... we have different exhaust setups entirely. Just the same, the pictures of mine are here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine/carbheat.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Pietenpol project for sale!!!!
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Hello Gents! I am thinking to put my pietenpol project up for sale! No booos please! This is the 4th year of construction. Want to concentrate on my WW1 fighter project. I have built as a 1 seater (rear seat)...... storage in front......(could change back if you would like) fuselage is on the gear, though gear is not complete. Airdrome airplanes wheel package....Vitalis hinges....(the cast alum. ones) Tail feathers done, and control horns made, bell crank made, ribs done. Have 2 coats of clear on everything but the Ribs.... Looking for $3,300 for the lot.(pretty firm on that) Located at the Santa Maria Airport, in Santa Maria Ca. I live 200 miles away.... so cannot pop over there! I can have a buddy snap a couple pictures if anyone is interested. Please reply off list!!!!!!!! Will continue to "lurk"..... you guys sure have alot of gooood info! All the best, Dave A. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Question for The Big Piet builders
I have a quick question for those Big Piet builders out there. I tried directly emailing a couple of you but didn't get a response. Perhaps my email is getting lost in the spam filters. What did you guys do for props on your planes? Is everyone using the same prop? What manufacturer? What size? I've asked other corvair piet owners on the list about their prop choices and I'd like to add your recommendation to my list of props so I have more to draw from when I make my choice. Thanks so much! Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Question for The Big Piet builders
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Mike; I have a Tennessee Props 62x34 for the Corvair/Piet but it has not flown so I don't know how well it might perform. The prop dimensions were recommended to me by the company owner based on the engine specs I gave him (stock William Wynne conversion, also not complete). If you'd like to be the first to fly behind this prop, let me know and perhaps I'd lend it out. There is a picture at the top of this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/corvair/corvair.html -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285863#285863 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TGSTONE236(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET
MIKE THE PROP I GOT FROM TENNESSEE PROP WAS A 64 X 34 THAT THEY RECOMENDED FOR THE CORVAIR BASED PIETENPOL . I HAVEN'T RUN THE ENGINE YET SO I CAN'T VERIFY ANYTHING MORE . TED STONE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Barry Davis" <bed(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Question for The Big Piet builders
Date: Feb 10, 2010
_____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Groah Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:52 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question for The Big Piet builders I have a quick question for those Big Piet builders out there. I tried directly emailing a couple of you but didn't get a response. Perhaps my email is getting lost in the spam filters. Some magazine articles used my gmail account which I use for special stuff and rarely ever check. Please contant me using the bed(at)mindspring.com address and put "Pietenpol" somewhere in the subject line, Outlook will sort it into the correct mailbox. What did you guys do for props on your planes? Is everyone using the same prop? Yes What manufacturer? Culver from Valley Engineering in SE Missouri What size? 66-30 Simitar I've asked other corvair piet owners on the list about their prop choices and I'd like to add your recommendation to my list of props so I have more to draw from when I make my choice. We did the same research it sound like you are doing and came up with the 66-30. It is a curved simitar (sp)? design which I am told is a little more efficient than a straight prop. I cannot verify this. We are getting a static RPM of 2950 and are limited to 3100 for prop tip speed. Our corvairs will turn right at 3100 flat-out on a level cruise. so this might be OK for us. Normal takeoff is about 275-300 feet with a fairly good climb out. I don't quite get to pattern altitude by the end of the runway 5500', but almost do. Thanks Barry Davis (We plan to have 4 of the Big Piets at Sun n Fun if the weather will cooperate. It's been too dang cold, windy, rainy, couldy, windy, cold, rainy, etc to get the required hours flown off) Harold bought one of those plug-in electric jackets, but hands and face stll take a beating. If my feet get cold, I'm done. Thanks so much! Mike Groah Tulare CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re-edited the stall movie
I re-edited the stall movie over lunch. It's substantially shorter but with added bits. (Now how does that work?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O7bNfCLAdQ Sort of gives it a different feel. Hope you like it, now I'm back to work. Jeff -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: careless wingdropping !
Aha ! Love you caption there Jeff and nice music selections. Now go out this spring and really do a man's stall where you pull power bac k to idle and really honk that nose up there. You can do it, I know you can. Even then when the nose drops you just add a touch of power and she's flying again. Nice job on re-editing man ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET
Great. I'm collecting as much data on what other are using as I can. I added your info to my list. Thanks. ________________________________ From: "TGSTONE236(at)aol.com" <TGSTONE236(at)aol.com> Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:40:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET MIKE THE PROP I GOT FROM TENNESSEE PROP WAS A 64 X 34 THAT THEY RECOMENDED FOR THE CORVAIR BASED PIETENPOL . I HAVEN'T RUN THE ENGINE YET SO I CAN'T VERIFY ANYTHING MORE . TED STONE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Question for The Big Piet builders
Thank you Oscar. I appreciate the offer of a loan, but I think I'd just like to order one for myself and be done with it. It seems several people have been using the Tennessee props and people are running props from 66/30 to 62/34, with most using a 64/34. I've added your info to my list as well. Thanks Mike Groah ________________________________ From: taildrags <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:28:39 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Question for The Big Piet builders Mike; I have a Tennessee Props 62x34 for the Corvair/Piet but it has not flown so I don't know how well it might perform. The prop dimensions were recommended to me by the company owner based on the engine specs I gave him (stock William Wynne conversion, also not complete). If you'd like to be the first to fly behind this prop, let me know and perhaps I'd lend it out. There is a picture at the top of this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/corvair/corvair.html -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285863#285863 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET
I think you can get away with a longer prop than 64.I'm running a 72 X 42 T ennessee and it's being driven by a four cylinder 80 hp Franklin and I'm ge tting 85 mph on cruise and 90 mph on the full wide open.=0A=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________=0AFrom: "TGSTONE236(at)aol.com" <TGSTONE236(at)aol.com> =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, February 10, 2010 3:40:54 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET=0A=0AMIKE=0A=0A-- -- THE PROP I GOT FROM TENNESSEE PROP WAS A 64 X 34 THAT THEY RECOMENDE D FOR THE=0A=0A-CORVAIR BASED -PIETENPOL . I HAVEN'T RUN THE ENGINE YET ============== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET
HI Mike, Can't remember is I told you but have a Warp drive prop for my Corvair. It was recommended by WW and I believe is 66" long. If you are ready to go with a prop you can use mine as I am quite a ways from needing it yet. Of course I would have to take you up on the offer to drive the Model T. I had a Model A coupe in high school and loved it. Jim B. Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine Feb 10, 2010 01:23:48 PM, pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com wrote: Great. I'm collecting as much data on what other are using as I can. I added your info to my list. Thanks. From: "TGSTONE236(at)aol.com" <TGSTONE236(at)aol.com> Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:40:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET MIKE THE PROP I GOT FROM TENNESSEE PROP WAS A 64 X 34 THAT THEY RECOMENDED FOR THE CORVAIR BASED PIETENPOL . I HAVEN'T RUN THE ENGINE YET SO I CAN'T VERIFY ANYTHING MORE . TED STONE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: careless wingdropping !
Oh, I've done the honking back stalls. Sometimes I even open my eyes! >Aha ! Love you caption there Jeff and nice music selections. > >Now go out this spring and really do a man's stall where you pull >power back to idle and really honk that nose up >there. You can do it, I know you can. Even then when the >nose drops you just add a touch of power and she's >flying again. > >Nice job on re-editing man ! > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: careless wingdropping !
On 02/10/2010 03:16 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Aha ! Love you caption there Jeff and nice music selections. > > Now go out this spring and really do a mans stall where you pull power "Spring," nuthin'. I think he went flying this past Monday! He's just rubbing it in! > back to idle and really honk that nose up > > there. You can do it, I know you can. Even then when the nose drops you > just add a touch of power and shes > > flying again. The power-on stalls in N8031 are simply amazing. With just me in there, I couldn't get it to stall... maybe I was being a chicken, but I had the stick back almost in my lap and the horizon went away and I was dancing on the rudder pedals and I was afraid I was going to flip her over - she just kept climbing and climbing and climbing... I gave up after gaining about a thousand feet of altitude. Thank you, sir, for a nice mini-mental vacation. I needed that. Cheers, Dan -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: PROP FOR CORVAIR PIET
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Harvey: I'll bet your Franklin develops rated power at something like 2300 RPM, whereas the Corvair needs to turn 2900-3100 to develop full power. Thus, the shorter prop to control tip speed. -------- Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX Air Camper NX41CC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=285882#285882 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 10, 2010
Subject: Barry Davis-- good update !
Great to hear that four of your Big Piets might be at SNF Barry ! Can I ask how many of the Big Piets have made their 1st flights ? I hope the weather moderates for you guys so you can get some of your hours flown off in late Feb/ and March. Go for it. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: careless wingdropping !
We have this really bad leading edge on our Piet (I do not recommend sheet aluminum, though others have had good luck). The shrinking of the fabric pinched our leading edge in several places, making it very pointy and non-uniform. The first time I tried a power-on stall, the plane started climbing steeply as you describe, and then just >snapped< over, dropping the right wing (see Mike, I don't discriminate) and going right into the beginnings of a spin. Not the end end of the world, but no warning and much faster than a C-150, Citabria, or Katana (the only other planes I've done power-on stalls in). Now with the vortex generators, there's some stall warning buffeting for both power-on and power-off stalls. Haven't really gotten a power-on stall unless there is someone in the front pit and full fuel. Maybe I'm just too chicken when flying solo and with a rearward CG loading! The trick is to start from a very slow speed and keep pulling back as you add power - just like if you were taking off and not paying attention. If you want to add some spice, pretend like you're turning crosswind with less than perfect coordination. Make sure you're strapped in well and have some air under you if you decide to do this.


January 30, 2010 - February 10, 2010

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-iu