Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ix
February 25, 2010 - March 06, 2010
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-ix
February 25, 2010 - March 06, 2010
Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to
spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D
hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just
used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either =
Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent
and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength
for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email,
but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the =
shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely
be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20
link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in =
Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own
wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20
needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars
and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped =
build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to
look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll
blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: =3D pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 =
Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center)
from metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D
the=3D20 ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape
for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say =
ash? Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a
certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board
foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts)
also hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very
expensive, about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D
.7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I
am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches
= the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and
2" X 1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off
for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear
= cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18
oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server(at)matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
Krause"=3D20
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I
will=3D20 probably go with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D
really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go =
that=3D20 way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D
Reference. =3D20 The size of the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D
probably get=3D20 pretty close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
To:=3D20
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by:
shad=3D20 bell
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D
wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel
end=3D20 fittings that would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D
older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D
ours are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness.
=3D20 also check dillsburg aero works
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D
special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look
up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D
price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D/PRE>http://=www.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&=l
t;=3DB><=3D/PRE>http://forums.matronics.com=3D<=3D/PRE>=3Dhttp:
//www.matronic=s.com/c=3Dontribution<=3D/PRE>
href=3D3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://ww=
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3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D3D=3D3D=
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~=B2
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Thanks, Jack,
I already have the 3/4" spars, so no need to build them up from plywood.
I saw these sketches before and thought about it.
I will keep this as an alternative.
Thanks again.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
You could consider a built up spar like attached. They are a lot of
work but strong and just a bit less expensive that solid. There are
more pictures at www.textors.com.
Jack
DSM
Thanks, Gary.
The wing is exactly the same, except 27" shorter. Routing would be a
lot of work, but doable. The ribs I got with the other wood are all
built and seem to be made for the 1" spar. I will have to make a
decision on which way to go.
I have been putting in hard points in the fuselage for the seat and
shoulder safety belts; thankfully I only need one set! I put the hard
pints one station behind the seat, so I will have to find the right seat
belts to fit. ACS has some that might work, when I get that far. Got
the turtle deck mostly done today, that was fun.
Thanks for the help.
Ray Krause
P.S. Guess I will have to take the Waiex to the Peit fly in.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
No problem, Ray. I took your meaning to be, would the same
information apply to a Sky Scout. Having never seen Sky Scout plans, I
could not say, with real authority, that a =BE" spar is OK for the Sky
Scout; however, it is my understanding that the two airplanes are very
similar, maybe even the same wing. Lots of conversations on this list
point out that vintage aircraft such as the T-craft or Piper Cub, have
used an assortment of spar materials, =BE" thick. It is my recollection
that the same conversation led to the agreement that, after routing, you
basically end up with a =BE" spar, anyhow.
Please, someone (I know this is a bashful group), if I have
mis-directed Ray, please jump in!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:29 PM
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks. I became confused answering all the e-mails that I started
with these questions. I know that you are building an Air Camper!
Thanks for the info on the spars.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Negative.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:24:54 -0800
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Gary,
Thanks for the information. If = using the 3/4" spar
material, would I still rout out the spar as shown in the = plans?
Are you building a Sky Scout?
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, = 2010 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky Scout...
Ray,
FYI...3/4" is an acceptable dimension for = spars.
Gary
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net&g= t;
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:59:45 -0800
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Thanks, Gary.
I will accept your humility with a = =3D grain
of=3D20 salt! Your beautiful workmanship attests to your =3D
abilities!
The point about laminating to avoid = =3D wood defects
is=3D20 well taken, I will follow suit. After = computing the
costs of =3D the=3D20 metal struts, I am leaning towards the wood
= struts! As far as the =3D spars=3D20 go, they were
included in the wood I got = with the Sky Scout package; =3D
they are=3D20 spruce. But rather than the 1" = thickness, they
are 3/4", I think I =3D will=3D20 sandwich then with two pieces =
of 1/8" birch plywood to get the 1" (so =3D they fit=3D20 the
ribs). = The Hughes Hardwood =3D place in=3D20 Chico = had
beautiful parallel grain fir that would have made beautiful =3D
spars,=3D20 = cheap, too. Next time I am in Chico, I will
check out the =3D = hickory. =3D20 The ash seems to be really
dense/heavy (stronger than hickory?). = I =3D will=3D20 try
to look it up.
Thanks for the response. And yes, I = =3D have
referenced=3D20 Chris's web site and printed many photos.... but it
= makes my eyes and =3D brain=3D20 hurt!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From:=3D20 Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics= .com=3D =3D20
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 =3D = 3:17=3D20 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 = Scout...
Ray,
Your=3D20 questions are intelligent and =
educated=3D85.attributes to which I make =3D no personal=3D20
claim. In all honesty, I perused = the West Coast Piet web site
to =3D exhaustion.=3D20 Too bad Chris Tracy = doesn=3D92t
have sponsors, or he=3D92d be a rich man! =3D After=3D20
looking at every = application of wood strut that has been built
and is =3D flying,=3D20 I decided = it was doable.
Conversations about appropriate woods went =3D from ash=3D20 = to
spruce, including hickory. I decided that I liked the look of =3D
hickory = and=3D20 the decision was that easy. For size, I just
used the plans dimensions = =3D for=3D20 steel.
Later=3D20 conversations with another builder (either =
Cliff Dawson or Douwe =3D Blumberg),=3D20 far more intelligent
and = educated than I, showed published =3D strengths of=3D20
various woods, and = verified that hickory had plenty of strength
for =3D our=3D20 purposes. I think I = can find that email,
but it=3D92s on my other =3D computer at=3D20 home.
My=3D20 wing struts will also be hickory, roughly the =
shape and size on the =3D plans.=3D20 Connections will surely
be similar to = Douwe=3D92s. All cabanes and wing =3D struts
are=3D20 laminated = because=3D85.that=3D92s what everyone
does! Really, it gives you =3D an=3D20 opportunity to rotate the =
grain and eliminate the possibility of =3D having a weak=3D20
link. Also, it = looks really cool!
My=3D20 wood source is a local hardwood supplier, in =
Auburn, Ca (California=3D20 Hardwoods), who does his own
wholesale purchasing = in whatever length =3D and size=3D20
needed. He even mills, if necessary. He = located my fir spars
and sold =3D all four=3D20 for $185!! Bonus is that he helped =
build some wood airplanes and knows =3D what=3D20 grains to
look = for.
Further=3D20 note: If anything goes wrong, = I=3D92ll
blame Chris Tracy for =3D publishing all=3D20 those = photos!
Gary=3D20 Boothe
Cool,=3D20 CA
Pietenpol
WW=3D20 Corvair Conversion
Tail=3D20 done, Fuselage on gear
18=3D20 ribs done
From:=3D20
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
=3D Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 1:51 PM
To: =3D pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: = Re: Pietenpol-List: =3D Sky=3D20 =
Scout...
Gary,
If I made =3D these 22"=3D20 struts (front/center)
from metal, they would = weigh 22+ ounces without =3D
the=3D20 ends. How did you decide on the = thickness and shape
for the struts? =3D Why did=3D20 you chose Hickory versus, say =
ash? Did you laminate because you =3D needed=3D20 to get to a
certain = thickness, or for strength? There is a =3D source
for=3D20 hickory and ash that = has 2" (8/4) material in Chico,
I think. I =3D got some=3D20 1" ash for = 2.37 per board
foot.
Are your =3D "flying=3D20 struts" (the long struts)
also hickory? = What=3D20 shape?
Thanks,
Ray=3D20 Krause.
P.S. The =3D aerostream=3D20 tubing is very
expensive, about $56.00 per = front strut ($28.00/ft and =3D
.7593=3D20 lbs/ft). Wicks has it for $17.00/ft = right now. I
am not sure of its =3D quality.=3D20 None of the aerotubing matches
= the recommended sizes on the plans (1.5 =3D X .75=3D20 and
2" X 1").
----- =3D Original=3D20 Message -----
From: Gary=3D20 Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matron= ics.com=3D =3D20
Sent: =3D Monday, February=3D20 22, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: RE:=3D20 Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
I had a couple free minutes before I took = =3D off
for the=3D20 week. It took 10 seconds to pull off one of the rear
= cabanes. It =3D measures=3D20 21" end-to-end, and weighs 18
oz (had to use the = postal=3D20 scales!).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, =3D = mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down=3D85)
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-pi= etenpol=3D
-list-server(at)matronics.com=3D20
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =
Ray=3D20 Krause
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:54 PM
To:=3D20 pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: = Sky=3D20 Scout...
Krause"=3D20
Shad,
Thanks for the comments on the = struts. =3D I
will=3D20 probably go with the 4130
struts from Wicks. It is just that I = =3D
really=3D20 enjoy the wood working. If the
wood were comparable, I would maybe go = that=3D20
way.
I would appreciate the Dillsburg Aero =3D Reference.
=3D20 The size of the metal
struts is included in the plans; so I can = =3D
probably get=3D20 pretty close to the
right size.
Thanks for your help.
Ray Krause
----- Original Message ----- =
From: "shad bell"=3D20 <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
To:=3D20
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 = 5:33=3D20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky=3D20 Scout...
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted = =3D by:
shad=3D20 bell
>
>
> Ray, I am not 100% sure but I would = bet =3D
wooden=3D20 struts are heavier than
> streamlined tube. The bolts, = and =3D steel
end=3D20 fittings that would be
> required add up fast. As for = the =3D
older=3D20 metal designation, just usse 4130,
> If you need I can see what dimensions = =3D ours
are,=3D20 some where in the 2 inch
> by 9/16 (minor axis) .049 wall =3D thickness.
=3D20 also check dillsburg aero works =
> for tube prices, wicks is also having = a =3D
special=3D20 "sale" on streamlined
> tubing of some dimensions. I = can =3D look
up=3D20 the number for Dillsburg Aero
> Works in PA if you need me to, I have = a =3D
price=3D20 list out in my hanger, he
> does not have a web =3D = site.
>
>
> Shad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<=3D/PRE>http://=www.mat=3Dronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List&=l
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
~=B2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
r
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Oscar,
It would be nice to see the data on the drag of the various materials, but I
will believe you...I plan to use the streamlined material.
I sure enjoy your postings to this site.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
>
> Guys, if you don't already have the original
> Flying & Glider Manuals, you should get a copy
> by all means. Besides the Air Camper and Sky
> Scout plans and details, there are a whole
> bunch of other interesting aircraft in them,
> well worth your time to peruse.
>
> And for whoever mentioned that they didn't
> think there was much difference in drag between
> round and streamline tubing, there really is.
> I can dig up the old aircraft design manual
> that has a graph of relative drag between
> round, simple teardrop, streamline, and one
> or two other shapes. It's significant.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Date: Feb 25, 2010
This is true. The Cub uses different springs for just this reason. When I
questioned the A&P that changed to new anti-shimmy springs on the Cub; he
said this was an old trick that had been learned with many bad experiences.
I don't know about the experiences; but the Cub kept the different springs!
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs
> should be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel
> and put a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup
> could allow an unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the
> flutter that would happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side;
> same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew(at)aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from
> Mcmasters. Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen(at)antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in
> Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take
> long to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design
> (due to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as
> Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full
> swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and
> ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how
> to get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower
> rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
> ===================================
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
There was a little biplane at Brodhead that had one of those Harley engines. It
was called a Snyder Baby Bomber (I think), and was owned by the late Denny Trone,
(again, I think). I watched it taxi towards the runway once, but the engine
stalled part way, and had to be pulled back to the hangar. Not sure if it's
still there.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288215#288215
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brodhead_328_small_186.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dick's two cylinder Harley engine
From: "dwilson" <marwilson(at)charter.net>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
About five years ago at the Dayton Air Show a University Engineering Class brought
a 1905 Wright Flyer replica with a Twin Cam 88. It too had the balanced (
softtail ) engine. I'm sure they flew it at Dayton and I think it was at Oshkosh
the next year.
http://www.usuwrightflyer.org/news/2003-mar13-slt
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288216#288216
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: another Russian Aircamper
Date: Feb 25, 2010
http://www.reaa.ru/yabbfiles/Attachments/DSC09481-1_001.JPG
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: Sky Scout...
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I think the Sprit of St. Louis" used round tubing for All landing gear, and
struts...
Was streamlined with Balsa! Round Tube is VERY draggy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Oscar,
It would be nice to see the data on the drag of the various materials, but I
will believe you...I plan to use the streamlined material.
I sure enjoy your postings to this site.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 6:06 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
>
>
> Guys, if you don't already have the original
> Flying & Glider Manuals, you should get a copy
> by all means. Besides the Air Camper and Sky
> Scout plans and details, there are a whole
> bunch of other interesting aircraft in them,
> well worth your time to peruse.
>
> And for whoever mentioned that they didn't
> think there was much difference in drag between
> round and streamline tubing, there really is.
> I can dig up the old aircraft design manual
> that has a graph of relative drag between
> round, simple teardrop, streamline, and one
> or two other shapes. It's significant.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout...
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Thanks, Santiago,
Beautiful plane! The streamline struts seem pretty cheap, at least on
initial glance.
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:10 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout...
Ray,
Round tube are structurally better than streamlined struts,
subjected to compression, but they are less efficient aerodynamically,
as Oscar said. I chose round struts because that's what I can afford
:-)
Attached is a photo of a beautiful Piet with round lift struts
and streamlined cabanes.
Saludos
Santiago
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
The trick to FEA is defining a model that's practical enough to be useful. Any
model of simply a mass and two opposed springs with no dampening is going to define
a 2nd-order system with a natural resonant frequency. Your excitation forces
are not going to be applied to the same points in both systems, and with
direct cables, I suspect your feet end up being the dampeners.
Taking it one step further, if your system has some ugly zeros and poles, the trick
is to make sure the operating range of your system is well clear of the unstable
parts. I suspect the differental springs move the center of the oscillation
away from straight, so as to reduce the chance of it happening during landing
and takeoff. I suppose the new resonance point would be during a tight fast
hard turn, like a ground loop, but at that point your tailwheel shimmy is
probably going to be way down on your list of immediate problems anyhow.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David Paule
Sent: Feb 25, 2010 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
I thought about this some more and decided that springs of different spring constants
would have no effect. This is because the net torque about the steering
axis is the same.
To verify this, I made a simple finite element model and sure enough, with two
identical springs I got a certain natural frequency. With one spring slightly
lower and one spring slightly higher in value, adding to the same total amount,
the resulting natural frequency was identical.
Just use two springs the same, life is simpler that way.
It's damping that prevents the shimmy.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ash" <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs should
be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel and put
a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup could allow
an unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the flutter that would
happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side; same concept.
>
> Jim Ash
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: helspersew(at)aol.com
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from Mcmasters.
Hook to rudder!
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bill55 <bliimatainen(at)antennaplus.com>
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
>
> Dan,
>
> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead
> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take long
to
> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (due
to
> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Dennis
> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swivel
> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and ground
> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how to
get
> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower rudder
> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>
> Bill Liimatainen
> Monroe, Wisconsin
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==========
> Pietenpol-List Un/Subscription,
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
bsp; via the href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
bsp; - generous support!
> bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: laminating struts and tv
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I checked the DAP site and found this data sheet what I think is for the better
product. I've used it to build my tail feathers and testing shows that the joint
fails anywhere BUT the actual glue line. This is also the more water resistant/tolerant
product than the water activated. Incidentally, I mix the stuff
using a beam balance scale my ex-wife got from the US Attorneys office after
a drug case was adjudicated. It still has the "Evidence" sticker on it. One
of the few useful things I ever got from her.
http://www.dap.com/docs/tech/00030205.pdf
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288235#288235
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
This can be useful for those of us who design our own tailwheels. As far as
I know, (not too far) the main cause of tailwheel shimmy-is an incorrect
castor angle.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Isn't that going to change as the spring flexes? Especialy
on landing?
The one thing I could see happening is that, with the already
negative "castor", The angle is going to get closer to the
horizontal with flexing and negate steering capability.
The principle of differential springs here is paralleled with
the reason for offsetting the jury struts. Harmonic vibration.
Clif
"My soul is in the sky." ~ William Shakespeare
This can be useful for those of us who design our own
tailwheels. As far as I know, (not too far) the main cause of tailwheel
shimmy is an incorrect castor angle.
Saludos
Santiago
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Date: Feb 25, 2010
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to be
used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the two
part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about single
stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond? Has
anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on this
subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce long
grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with proper
usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood grains come
off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Date: Feb 25, 2010
I beg to differ, there is a tailwheel plan in the original plans. It
even has a parking brake incorporated in it.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Holland<mailto:at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
Excellent design Skip. I know we are not supposed to change anything
from the Piet plans but since the plans do not include a tailwheel
(and a left and right cable running to a tailwheel control horn), I
think we can give Skip official dispensation here. I think this design
simplifies and improves the design of any Piet incorporating a
tailwheel and is based on a flight proven design (the GN-1). I will do
it this way on my next Piet project.
Rick
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Skip Gadd
> wrote:
> Dan,
> I made a double horn for rudder and tailwheel steering so the
torsional load
> from the tailwheel would not have to travel through wood. Also since
the
> rudder horn is moved to the bottom of the rudder I added some extra
support
> to spread the load up the rudder. The horns are constructed like
> Pietenpols, two pieces of .032 edge welded. The attached picture is
the
> current status of the project, so the design has not been flight
tested.
> Skip
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: 2/24/2010 7:48:58 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
> Hi Guys,
>
> I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my
free-castoring
> tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this
list has
> been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as
per the
> Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that
the
> wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that
Ken
> Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
>
> Any new thoughts on this subject?
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 25, 2010
Santiago,
Thanks for posting that! I designed my own tailwheel, but had no idea if the
geometry was good.now I can check it.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of santiago
morete
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 5:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
This can be useful for those of us who design our own tailwheels. As far as
I know, (not too far) the main cause of tailwheel shimmy is an incorrect
castor angle.
Saludos
Santiago
_____
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Date: Feb 25, 2010
One problem with gorilla glue is that it has not been tested over time.
Yes, a glue joint is strong, but in ten years? twenty? after repeated
temperature changes?? Stick with the known glues, they are not all that
expensive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Krause<mailto:raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to
be used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the
two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about
single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond?
Has anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on
this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce
long grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with
proper usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood
grains come off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
Yes, Clif, I agree with you.- The negative castor angle should be conside
red with the airplane fully loaded.- Here is the article from where I too
k the graphic www.pierceaero.net/tws.php
I think you are right about the springs, in fact, the Maule-anti-shimmy s
prings that Aircraft Spruce,-and other sells, are nothing more than sprin
gs of different sizes.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
My experience with Gorilla Glue is that it requires a very precise
clamping pressure and no gaps to make a strong joint. To much
pressure and you starve the joint & that's where it fails. Too
little pressure or gaps and you get foaming with zero joint
strength. Also, as Gene says, there's no history yet, so it's
impossible to say if it will hold up.
Titebond 3 is more forgiving but you still need a good wood-wood fit
and the right clamping pressure. Compared to epoxy, it has a much
lower gap strength, but better than Gorilla. Given that it's based
on much older chemistry/technology than Gorilla Glue, I'd guess it
will last about as long as it's older white glue (Elmer's)
predecessors i.e. a long time in a protected environment. Whether
or not it's truly waterproof, and therefore able to retain strength,
in an unprotected environment for a long time is also an unanswered
question.
I would not use either glue in a structural situation, although I
think that would be an interesting experiment for Titebond 3, just
not a flying experiment at this point ;)
Kip Gardner
On Feb 25, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Ray Krause wrote:
> The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives
> to be used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft,
> using the two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome.
> What about single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla
> Glue, Titebond? Has anyone used these, with what results? There
> are mixed reviews on this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07)
> and woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are
> other reports both supportive and contradictive.
>
> I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce
> long grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain:
> with proper usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is,
> wood grains come off with the break.
>
> Hope this does not cause any consternation!
>
> Ray Krause
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Gorilla glue expands as it cures .I made the mistake of using it on the rub
ber trim that I put around my wing end covers.I had to do a lot of triming
afterwards to get the exccess off.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0AFrom: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com=0ASent: Thu, February 25, 2010 10:27:17 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-L
ist: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?=0A=0A=0AOne problem with gorilla glue is t
hat it has not been tested over time.- Yes, a glue joint is strong, but i
n ten years?- twenty?- after repeated temperature changes??- Stick wi
th the known glues, they are not all that expensive.=0A=0AGene=0A----- Orig
inal Message ----- =0A>From: Ray Krause =0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.co
m =0A>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:57 PM=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List:
Sky Scout.."Glue" question?=0A>=0A>=0A>The discussion on laminating struts
has touched on glue/adhesives to be used, or that could be used.- When b
uilding the aircraft, using the two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little
cumbersome.- What about single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e.
Gorilla Glue, Titebond?- Has anyone used these, with what results?- Th
ere are mixed reviews on this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and wo
odgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html .-I am sure there are other reports b
oth supportive and contradictive.=0A>-=0A>I have tested Gorilla Glue with
aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce long grain to long grain and butt to l
ong grain and cross grain:- with proper usage, the wood breaks before the
glue bond.- That is, wood grains come off with the break.=0A>-=0A>Hope
this does not cause any consternation!=0A>-=0A>Ray Krause=0A>=0A>=0A>tit
le=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.m
atronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?P
ietenpol-List=0A>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni
cs.com=0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matroni
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Maybe I'm weird (uh, OK...), but I like working with T-88 epoxy. I
save used Coke cans, turn them upside down, their bottoms make
perfect miniature mixing dishes. The can itself, oddly enough, fits
most hands perfectly, so it's easy to hold the mixing dish without
getting glue all over you. Some people spend a lot of time trying to
get the perfetc 50/50 mix between hardener and resin, but I am not
sure that that is hyper-critical. TLAR seems to work out pretty well
when using T-88.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]." <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Subject: The Flying Life by Sport Aviation author Lauran Paine
For any of you who are fans of Lauran Paine's articles in EAA's Sport Aviat
ion Magazine, you'll probably want to have
this book on your coffee table. Amazon.com carries it.
In this last EAA issue Lauran did a story about a gent (and good friend) wh
o is building a Pietenpol in Texas.
Mike C.
The Flying Life: stories for the aviation soul (Volume 1)
Lauran Paine Jr.<http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding
=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&field-author=Lauran%20P
aine%20Jr.> (Author)
No customer reviews yet. Be the first.<http://www.amazon.com/review/create-
review/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_wr_link?ie=UTF8&nodeID=&asin=0965760707
>
________________________________
Price:
$14.95 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=mk_gship_dp?ie
=UTF8&nodeId=527692&pop-up=1>
o o
In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.
Want it delivered Monday, March 1?
Order it in the next 5 hours and 18 minutes, and choose One-Day Shipping at
checkout.
Details<http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=ftinfo_dp
_?ie=UTF8&nodeId=3510241&pop-up=1>
From: TomTravis(at)aol.com [mailto:TomTravis(at)aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:07 PM
Subject: Fwd: oil and drips
Just FYI, the new book, "The Flying Life," is out.....at amazon.com, anyway
.
I don't have any hard copies yet...only the "proof copy." Hard copies come
later.
It's pretty evident that publishing is an on-line computer-world any more.
They asked me if I wanted to put it on "Kindle." I said, "What's Kindle?
I've heard of kindling but not kindle." A book in an electronic box??!!?
C'mom!!!
Anyway....more later.....
Lauran
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: anybody near Portland?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I'll be flying into Portland March 4 and have the aft free. Anybody
building a Piet out there?
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
If anyone is a member or subscriber to "Fine Woodworking",
they ran a glue comparison in August of 2007 on six
of the common wood glues, here:
http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
I'm not a member so I can't access the article but I
think I remember the results and Gorilla Glue didn't
place too well in the tests. My own experience with
it has NOT been on airplane stuff but what I've found
is that even with the air squeezed out of the container
and the container tightly capped, the stuff will set
up on the shelf and be useless so there's no point in
buying more than you can readily use. It also foams
out of the joint considerably, if you care about that.
It's T88 for me...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Subject: was glue question now latex paint
So what is the best type of latex paint we should use on our fabric ?
I'm going to build my next Piet for under $5K using Elmers, Home Depot lumber,
all aluminum fittings, Ace Hardware, and latex paint with a junkyard Suzuki
Sidekick engine and then............
take my family and loved ones for airplane rides !!!
PS-- though I'm not a fan of latex, I don't blame some builders from using it
because of the cost savings and easy clean up...even if it normally does look like
crap.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: anybody near Portland?
If no one shows up you MUST get down to McMinville (south of Portland I think)
to see Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose (which has VERY little spruce!).
It's a bit of a drive from Portland but I'll bet it's worth it! It's supposed
to be in a pretty neat museum.....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 26, 2010 9:32 AM
>To: pietenpolgroup
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: anybody near Portland?
>
>
>I'll be flying into Portland March 4 and have the aft free. Anybody
>building a Piet out there?
>
>Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: McMinnville photo
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Here is a shot of a P-38 and part of the Spruce Goose at McMinnville.
Rick Schreiber
Richard Schreiber
lmforge(at)earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: anybody near Portland?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Another worthwhile stop is Pearson Field across the river from Portland International.
They have a great museum and one of the oldest airports in the country.
The first aircraft landing here was in 1911!
here is a link http://www.cityofvancouver.us/history.asp?menuid=10466&submenuid=10537&itemID=16095
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Date: 2/26/2010 10:19:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: anybody near Portland?
>
>
> If no one shows up you MUST get down to McMinville (south of Portland I think)
to see Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose (which has VERY little spruce!).
>
> It's a bit of a drive from Portland but I'll bet it's worth it! It's supposed
to be in a pretty neat museum.....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
> >Sent: Feb 26, 2010 9:32 AM
> >To: pietenpolgroup
> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: anybody near Portland?
> >
> >
> >I'll be flying into Portland March 4 and have the aft free. Anybody
> >building a Piet out there?
> >
> >Douwe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: anybody near Portland?
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
dfwplt wrote:
> If no one shows up you MUST get down to McMinville (south of Portland I think)
to see Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose (which has VERY little spruce!).
>
> It's a bit of a drive from Portland but I'll bet it's worth it! It's supposed
to be in a pretty neat museum.....
>
>
>
> --
Drive??? why not fly in, there is an airport across the street.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288319#288319
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Torque Tube Safety Bracket
From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I am planning to weld brackets over my torque tube collars (as I've seen others
do very nicely) and I finally made a bending jig which gives good results (attached).
My question is regarding the middle "Safety Bracket" (correct term?) in the middle
of the torque tube, which measures 2 1/4" high (unless I am miss-reading).
Does anyone know the purpose for this being over-sized? Has anyone just opted
to make another collar and bracket, as on the ends? Or is there some, unforeseen
alignment problem which will become obvious when I go to install? Thanks.
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288320#288320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/84_metal_bending_jig_2_897.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Kip,
I agree about the "gap filling" feature of Gorilla glue. If the joint
is not tight, the filler is very weak and does not serve as a bond. But
in the areas of true contact, the joint seems to be very strong. As far
as clamping goes, it seems take a lot of squeeze pressure to squeeze out
enough glue to cause "starvation" because the glue foams in between the
joint. I think the foaming creates enough pressure to impregnate the
wood. In my "tests", where I glued aircraft plywood to spruce (as in
gussets) and used 5/8" brads (from a brad gun) and no clamps, there is
always significant wood failure, not joint failure. Sometimes the outer
veneer of the plywood separates and sticks to the spruce!
You and Gene are correct, there is no history proving the longevity of
the bonds.
Please note that none of my "tests" are scientific nor calibrated. They
are only based on observation of the wood breaking before the bond. I
plan to place some of the bonds in water and organic solvents to see if
they weaken.
As an interesting side note: I have been looking for a small bead to
place in the fuel sight tube on my Waiex so I can more easily see the
fuel level. I have found nothing that will both float and not dissolve.
One day I had a bright idea to try some of the foam from the Gorilla
Glue that had dripped on the work bench. After about 7 days, it was
still floating and not dissolved (the fuel evaporated!). It also
floated in turpentine for over a month, is still floating and still
intact!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: Kip and Beth Gardner
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
My experience with Gorilla Glue is that it requires a very precise
clamping pressure and no gaps to make a strong joint. To much pressure
and you starve the joint & that's where it fails. Too little pressure
or gaps and you get foaming with zero joint strength. Also, as Gene
says, there's no history yet, so it's impossible to say if it will hold
up.
Titebond 3 is more forgiving but you still need a good wood-wood fit
and the right clamping pressure. Compared to epoxy, it has a much lower
gap strength, but better than Gorilla. Given that it's based on much
older chemistry/technology than Gorilla Glue, I'd guess it will last
about as long as it's older white glue (Elmer's) predecessors i.e. a
long time in a protected environment. Whether or not it's truly
waterproof, and therefore able to retain strength, in an unprotected
environment for a long time is also an unanswered question.
I would not use either glue in a structural situation, although I
think that would be an interesting experiment for Titebond 3, just not a
flying experiment at this point ;)
Kip Gardner
On Feb 25, 2010, at 9:57 PM, Ray Krause wrote:
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to
be used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the
two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about
single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond?
Has anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on
this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce
long grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with
proper usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood
grains come off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Yes, it expands 3-4 times its volume. If the joint is not clamped or
nailed, the joint will separate and be very weak. A spruce to spruce
joint with a plywood gusset nailed with a brad gun is almost impossible
to get apart!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: H RULE
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Gorilla glue expands as it cures .I made the mistake of using it on
the rubber trim that I put around my wing end covers.I had to do a lot
of triming afterwards to get the exccess off.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Gene Rambo <generambo(at)msn.com>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thu, February 25, 2010 10:27:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
One problem with gorilla glue is that it has not been tested over
time. Yes, a glue joint is strong, but in ten years? twenty? after
repeated temperature changes?? Stick with the known glues, they are not
all that expensive.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Krause
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to
be used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the
two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about
single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond?
Has anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on
this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce
long grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with
proper usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood
grains come off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navig.matronics.com/" rel=nofollow
target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
I need to remember to take a BIG can of whup ass next time I go to Cleveland....
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
>Sent: Feb 26, 2010 10:14 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: was glue question now latex paint
>
>
>So what is the best type of latex paint we should use on our fabric ?
>
>I'm going to build my next Piet for under $5K using Elmers, Home Depot lumber,
>all aluminum fittings, Ace Hardware, and latex paint with a junkyard Suzuki
>Sidekick engine and then............
>
>take my family and loved ones for airplane rides !!!
>
>
>PS-- though I'm not a fan of latex, I don't blame some builders from using it
>because of the cost savings and easy clean up...even if it normally does look
like crap.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
Dan,
N8031 has the steerable tailwheel attached to control horns bolted to
the bottom of the rudder. It's flown 400+ hours that way and most of
that on pavement, which I would guess puts a higher load on the
tailwheel during turning. That's a WAG, though.
You can just see the horns in this (fuzzy) picture:
http://5n429glenoak.homelinux.net/gallery/N8031/img_2592
Dan
On 02/24/2010 06:15 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hi Guys,
> I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring
> tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list
> has been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as
> per the Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?)
> that the wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see
> that Ken Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
> Any new thoughts on this subject?
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
Yeah, but isn't it enough that he has to live near Cleveland?
Jeff
(originally Okie)
>
>I need to remember to take a BIG can of whup ass next time I go to
>Cleveland....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Correct, I was thinking about the original Flying and Glider manual plans.
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Gene Rambo wrote:
> I beg to differ, there is a tailwheel plan in the original plans. It even
> has a parking brake incorporated in it.
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Holland
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
> Excellent design Skip. I know we are not supposed to change anything
> from the Piet plans but since the plans do not include a tailwheel
> (and a left and right cable running to a tailwheel control horn), I
> think we can give Skip official dispensation here. I think this design
> simplifies and improves the design of any Piet incorporating a
> tailwheel and is based on a flight proven design (the GN-1). I will do
> it this way on my next Piet project.
>
> Rick
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Skip Gadd wrote:
>> Dan,
>> I made a double horn for rudder and tailwheel steering so the torsional
>> load
>> from the tailwheel would not have to travel through wood. Also since the
>> rudder horn is moved to the bottom of the rudder I added some extra
>> support
>> to spread the load up the rudder. The horns are constructed like
>> Pietenpols, two pieces of .032 edge welded. The attached picture is the
>> current status of the project, so the design has not been flight tested.
>> Skip
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: 2/24/2010 7:48:58 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I have been wrestling with the engineering of making my free-castoring
>> tailwheel into a steerable type. The conventional wisdom on this list has
>> been that one should not connect the tailwheel with the rudder, as per the
>> Aeronca Champ, and many others of that era, due to the fact (?) that the
>> wooden rudder is not strong enough to handle the loads. I see that Ken
>> Perkin's Time Machine is set-up just that way.
>>
>> Any new thoughts on this subject?
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell p; Features Chat,
> http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
The springs attached to the tailwheel on N8031 apply zero force when in
the neutral position. Therefore, no oscillation is present and no
dampening is required.
Dan
On 02/25/2010 05:46 PM, Jim Ash wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash
>
> The trick to FEA is defining a model that's practical enough to be useful. Any
model of simply a mass and two opposed springs with no dampening is going to
define a 2nd-order system with a natural resonant frequency. Your excitation
forces are not going to be applied to the same points in both systems, and with
direct cables, I suspect your feet end up being the dampeners.
>
> Taking it one step further, if your system has some ugly zeros and poles, the
trick is to make sure the operating range of your system is well clear of the
unstable parts. I suspect the differental springs move the center of the oscillation
away from straight, so as to reduce the chance of it happening during
landing and takeoff. I suppose the new resonance point would be during a tight
fast hard turn, like a ground loop, but at that point your tailwheel shimmy is
probably going to be way down on your list of immediate problems anyhow.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Paule
> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 4:03 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>
>
>
> I thought about this some more and decided that springs of different spring constants
would have no effect. This is because the net torque about the steering
axis is the same.
>
> To verify this, I made a simple finite element model and sure enough, with two
identical springs I got a certain natural frequency. With one spring slightly
lower and one spring slightly higher in value, adding to the same total amount,
the resulting natural frequency was identical.
>
> Just use two springs the same, life is simpler that way.
>
> It's damping that prevents the shimmy.
>
> David Paule
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Ash"<ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash
>>
>> Once upon a time I'd heard from others wiser than I that the two springs should
be different. This is so they apply unequal forces on the tailwheel and put
a light loading on the linkages. Otherwise, a force-neutral setup could allow
an unwanted oscillation which could ruin your day. Picture the flutter that
would happen if your elevator weren't loaded to one side; same concept.
>>
>> Jim Ash
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: helspersew(at)aol.com
>> Sent: Feb 25, 2010 7:35 AM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>>
>>
>> That settles it, I already have some light weight springs I bought from Mcmasters.
Hook to rudder!
>>
>> Dan Helsper
>> Poplar Grove, IL.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: bill55<bliimatainen(at)antennaplus.com>
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steerable tailwheel- hooked to rudder
>>
>>
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bill55"
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> We just finished and test flew the Model A powered Sky Scout based in Brodhead
>> (this past November) and originally had the tail skid. It did not take long
to
>> realize we needed a steerable tail wheel! We used a Ken Perkins design (due
to
>> time constraint) and attached to the lower rudder with light springs (as Dennis
>> Hall on his Aircamper). The process worked great except for the full swivel
>> design of the tail wheel. I machined that out and the airplane flys and ground
>> handles great. Feel free to check it out at Brodhead as anyone knows how to
get
>> into my hangar. I was always apprehensive about the horns on the lower rudder
>> but am convinced this is logical solution (and possibly lighter?)
>>
>> Bill Liimatainen
>> Monroe, Wisconsin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288111#288111
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> Pietenpol-List Un/Subscription,
>> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> > bsp; via the href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> > bsp; - generous support!
>> bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: anybody near =?UTF-8?Q?Portland=3F?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
I live in the Portland area and I'm building a Piet! Well I have a few
ribs built anyway :) It's been too cold to work in my garage this winter,
so unfortunately, my building activity has been very limited.
All of those museums around here are really great. Actually I've never
made it up to the one at Pearson Field. In addition to those mentioned is a
museum at Hood River - old cars and old planes. Among the planes I saw
there was a ...
Pietenpol! (SkyScout) ALso such things as Taylor Cub, Aeronca C-3, Boeing
40, etc.
Let me know what your plans are and maybe we can get together.
--Ken
wrote:
>
>
> I'll be flying into Portland March 4 and have the aft free. Anybody
> building a Piet out there?
>
> Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
http://www.goldenageair.org/collection/1917_rumpler_c_v.htm
Painted with Sherwin-Williams best exterior latex
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288350#288350
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Jim,
Mikee's not worth it! Come on down my way (one hr. south of
Cleveland) & I'll show you how to keep bees instead & oh yeah, you
can have a look at my semi-dormant project too.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 26, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Jim Markle wrote:
>
>
>
> I need to remember to take a BIG can of whup ass next time I go to
> Cleveland....
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
>>
>> Sent: Feb 26, 2010 10:14 AM
>> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: was glue question now latex paint
>>
>> [ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
>>
>> So what is the best type of latex paint we should use on our fabric ?
>>
>> I'm going to build my next Piet for under $5K using Elmers, Home
>> Depot lumber,
>> all aluminum fittings, Ace Hardware, and latex paint with a
>> junkyard Suzuki
>> Sidekick engine and then............
>>
>> take my family and loved ones for airplane rides !!!
>>
>>
>> PS-- though I'm not a fan of latex, I don't blame some builders
>> from using it
>> because of the cost savings and easy clean up...even if it
>> normally does look like crap.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Mikey is just mad because he spent $3000 on "real" aircraft paint and
us latexers are only spending $200.
rick
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Kip and Beth Gardner
wrote:
>
>
> Jim,
>
> Mikee's not worth it! Come on down my way (one hr. south of Cleveland) &
> I'll show you how to keep bees instead & oh yeah, you can have a look at my
> semi-dormant project too.
>
> Kip Gardner
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Jim Markle wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to remember to take a BIG can of whup ass next time I go to
>> Cleveland....
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
>>>
>>> Sent: Feb 26, 2010 10:14 AM
>>> To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: was glue question now latex paint
>>>
>>> Aerospace Corporation]"
>>>
>>> So what is the best type of latex paint we should use on our fabric ?
>>>
>>> I'm going to build my next Piet for under $5K using Elmers, Home Depot
>>> lumber,
>>> all aluminum fittings, Ace Hardware, and latex paint with a junkyard
>>> Suzuki
>>> Sidekick engine and then............
>>>
>>> take my family and loved ones for airplane rides !!!
>>>
>>>
>>> PS-- though I'm not a fan of latex, I don't blame some builders from
>>> using it
>>> because of the cost savings and easy clean up...even if it normally does
>>> look like crap.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: was glue question now latex paint
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Seriously, though... everything I've seen about the
use of latex paint on aircraft indicated that the
Sherwin-Williams product was the best. Consumer
Reports always seems to rank their product at the
top of the heap in their testing. I tested
some Valspar Ultra Premium that is supposed to be
nearly as good at lower cost but it has not flown
on an aircraft that I know of.
Sidebar: after nearly a half-dozen sincere attempts
by the paint specialist at Lowe's to match the Poly-
Tone yellow paint that I took for them to match the
Valspar latex to, they couldn't do it. Not that
the Poly-Tone color is an oddball though... it's
the exact color that is used on every yellow stripe
that you see painted on every road and highway in
the country... "Federal Yellow".
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Dick's new Piet
Date: Feb 26, 2010
I had the rocker box covers on my Pietenpol chrome plated by a place that
had an exhibit at Sun'n' Fun several years ago: Spacecoast Plating. Maybe
they'll be at SNF this year and you can talk with them then, Dick. They did
a good job on my rocker box covers and they were pretty inexpensive, I
thought. I paid $40 for all four.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
Chroming for your struts? Many years ago I had a Harley with a lot of
custom plating (chrome and gold) that was done at a place in Padukah KY,
Brown's Plating I think. They've been around forever.
Might be worth checking on for a source of your plating...I think I actually
saw the place mentioned somewhere not long ago so their probably still
around....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 11:28 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
>Hi Douwe
>Check out Mike Cuys post with the Harley. I'm checking on where to have
all
>of the chroming done for the struts and all at this point.
>Dick
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>To: "pietenpolgroup"
>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:54 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
>>
>>
>> So Dick,
>>
>> What engine are you using? is this an aircamper or a scout? I'm always
>> interested in different engines.
>>
>> Douwe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Torque Tube Safety Bracket
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Steve,
For whatever reason, I could not open the attachment.
My plans are packed away somewhere so I can't review them but as I recall,
the fore and aft brackets hold the tube in place and the center bracket is
un-necessary. At least, looking at my pictures, I didn't install it on
mine.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
chase143(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Torque Tube Safety Bracket
I am planning to weld brackets over my torque tube collars (as I've seen
others do very nicely) and I finally made a bending jig which gives good
results (attached).
My question is regarding the middle "Safety Bracket" (correct term?) in the
middle of the torque tube, which measures 2 1/4" high (unless I am
miss-reading). Does anyone know the purpose for this being over-sized? Has
anyone just opted to make another collar and bracket, as on the ends? Or is
there some, unforeseen alignment problem which will become obvious when I go
to install? Thanks.
Steve
--------
Steve
www.mypiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288320#288320
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/84_metal_bending_jig_2_897.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: latex paint
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Painted with Lowes semi gloss exterior latex. I still have the test
frame in the back yard after 8 years.
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Zxcv
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: McMinnville photo
Date: Feb 26, 2010
From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
The most dramatic contrast to me was seeing an SR-71 sitting under the
wing of the Spruce Goose. Most of the aircraft on display at McMinnville
are airworthy.
wrote:
Here is a shot of a P-38 and part of the Spruce Goose at
McMinnville. Rick Schreiber Richard Schreiber lmforge(at)earthlink.net
[1] Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.
Links:
------
[1]
mailto:lmforge(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Mike sounds like "fisherman north".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288408#288408
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Dick's new Piet
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Thanks for the suggestions, Jack and Jim. I'll check them out.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
> I had the rocker box covers on my Pietenpol chrome plated by a place that
> had an exhibit at Sun'n' Fun several years ago: Spacecoast Plating.
> Maybe
> they'll be at SNF this year and you can talk with them then, Dick. They
> did
> a good job on my rocker box covers and they were pretty inexpensive, I
> thought. I paid $40 for all four.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:02 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
>
> Chroming for your struts? Many years ago I had a Harley with a lot of
> custom plating (chrome and gold) that was done at a place in Padukah KY,
> Brown's Plating I think. They've been around forever.
>
> Might be worth checking on for a source of your plating...I think I
> actually
> saw the place mentioned somewhere not long ago so their probably still
> around....
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
>>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 11:28 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>>
>>
>>Hi Douwe
>>Check out Mike Cuys post with the Harley. I'm checking on where to have
> all
>>of the chroming done for the struts and all at this point.
>>Dick
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>>To: "pietenpolgroup"
>>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:54 AM
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So Dick,
>>>
>>> What engine are you using? is this an aircamper or a scout? I'm always
>>> interested in different engines.
>>>
>>> Douwe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: anybody near Portland?
Date: Feb 26, 2010
This thing is incredible! I have a photo somewhere of my Cherokee in
front of the
doors. The cherokee is just a tiny blip at the bottom of the photo!
Clif
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: anybody near Portland?
There is also a great air museum in Tillamook Oregon. That is just
over to the coast from Portland. It is in an old WW2 blip hanger. I
nice museum not too far from Portland.
vic groah NX414MV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Dick's new Piet
Date: Feb 26, 2010
Struts!! Which struts. Beware of hydrogen embrittlement.
I understand it's not a good thing on structural parts.
Clif
>
> Chroming for your struts? Many years ago I had a Harley with a lot of
> custom plating (chrome and gold) that was done at a place in Padukah KY,
> Brown's Plating I think. They've been around forever.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: was glue question now latex paint
Date: Feb 26, 2010
And I'm sure you can find a good deal on aluminum
patio chairs to strap to the wings. I hear the tourists
love the view from wingtips. Big money in sightseeing.
Clif
> Mikee are you planning to fly that thing to Belize? I understand the laws
> there will permit you to run an airline with such an aircraft as long as
> there are no certified aircraft materials in it. I believe Corky can get
> you a good price on ping-pong balls for flotation.
>
> Jack Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dick's new Piet
Date: Feb 27, 2010
http://www.spacecoast-plating.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
> Thanks for the suggestions, Jack and Jim. I'll check them out.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:21 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>
>
>>
>>
>> I had the rocker box covers on my Pietenpol chrome plated by a place that
>> had an exhibit at Sun'n' Fun several years ago: Spacecoast Plating.
>> Maybe
>> they'll be at SNF this year and you can talk with them then, Dick. They
>> did
>> a good job on my rocker box covers and they were pretty inexpensive, I
>> thought. I paid $40 for all four.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
>> Markle
>> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:02 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>>
>>
>>
>> Chroming for your struts? Many years ago I had a Harley with a lot of
>> custom plating (chrome and gold) that was done at a place in Padukah KY,
>> Brown's Plating I think. They've been around forever.
>>
>> Might be worth checking on for a source of your plating...I think I
>> actually
>> saw the place mentioned somewhere not long ago so their probably still
>> around....
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Dick N <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
>>>Sent: Feb 25, 2010 11:28 AM
>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Douwe
>>>Check out Mike Cuys post with the Harley. I'm checking on where to have
>> all
>>>of the chroming done for the struts and all at this point.
>>>Dick
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>>>To: "pietenpolgroup"
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:54 AM
>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dick's new Piet
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So Dick,
>>>>
>>>> What engine are you using? is this an aircamper or a scout? I'm
>>>> always
>>>> interested in different engines.
>>>>
>>>> Douwe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Piet-N-Pup
Warning! Raw video - no editing - this video is only for those who
really can't get enough of Pietenpols, Pups, or sport aviation in
general. No music, no Easter eggs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqAbnyA99Qs
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Piet-N-Pup
I own both a GN-1 Aircamper and an N3Pup but the pup is not very good with
the 1/2 VW in it at only 28hp so I'm switching the engine back to the 503 r
otax at 52 hp with reduction drive.The only thing-I can get out of the pu
p right now is a good fast taxi and on a good day just get airborn.Kinda sc
ary actually.If I had one of those Scott Cassler 45hp on it that would make
all the difference in the world but can't afford one at this time.I was ab
lr to pick up a 503 at $1800 US but the 45hp 1/2 VW comes in at $6000-CND
to- my door.I don't know what the guy in the video is using but it sound
s stronger than mine.I am sitting at 210 lbs right now.If I was at the 145l
bs I should be at then the 1/2VW I have now would probably be OK.I know,I k
now,it would be cheaper to loose the weight than change the engine.Very har
d to loose it at 63 years old.--=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0AFrom: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ma
tronics.com=0ASent: Sat, February 27, 2010 6:52:13 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-
=0A=0AWarning! Raw video - no editing - this video is on
ly for those who really can't get enough of Pietenpols, Pups, or sport avia
tion in general. No music, no Easter eggs.- =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/wat
ch?v=VqAbnyA99Qs=0A=0A-- =0AJeff Boatright=0A"Now let's think about this.
=================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: engine run up
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Brought my wings to the airstrip but left the fuse in my workshop to do some
engine runups at home, close by my tools. The engine has 14hrs in the test
stand, but this was the first time running in the fuselage. With one inch
of snow on the ground, and temps in the high twenties, it was a bit nippy,
but she started right off and purred along beautifully. Am trying an
Aerocarb, and have about three hours on it. So far I really like it. Seems
like the sticky slide bugs and fuel leaking have been worked out, but we'll
see. With this type of carb, one does have to be careful about switching
off the fuel or it'll sit there and drip eventually. However, having two
moving parts and no venturi or butterfly valve to ice up are big plusses in
my book. But, we'll see... so far, so good. If it doesn't work out, I'll
go back to the weber which has been bomb-proof.
Hopefully will get the fuse to the airport now in a couple of weeks and put
her together for the final time, do some ground runs, debugging and get Mr.
Frank down here to do the honors as soon as the weather cooporates.
Fun stuff!
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: engine run up
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Douwe,
Great news. If you want to send me some pics and I will make sure they get
posted to this list. Hopefully I will be able to fly into Brodhead with
you in July. Can't wait.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 11:33 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine run up
hlink.net>
Brought my wings to the airstrip but left the fuse in my workshop to do so
me
ngine runups at home, close by my tools. The engine has 14hrs in the test
tand, but this was the first time running in the fuselage. With one inch
f snow on the ground, and temps in the high twenties, it was a bit nippy,
ut she started right off and purred along beautifully. Am trying an
erocarb, and have about three hours on it. So far I really like it. Seem
s
ike the sticky slide bugs and fuel leaking have been worked out, but we'll
ee. With this type of carb, one does have to be careful about switching
ff the fuel or it'll sit there and drip eventually. However, having two
oving parts and no venturi or butterfly valve to ice up are big plusses in
y book. But, we'll see... so far, so good. If it doesn't work out, I'll
o back to the weber which has been bomb-proof.
Hopefully will get the fuse to the airport now in a couple of weeks and pu
t
er together for the final time, do some ground runs, debugging and get Mr.
rank down here to do the honors as soon as the weather cooporates.
Fun stuff!
Douwe
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
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-
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout.."Glue" question?
Date: Feb 27, 2010
For what it is worth some RAG Wing aircraft builders have used Excel
glues with some success:
http://www.excelglue.com/
under the fuselage chapter the results can be viewed
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wilsonnz/
note
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/wilsonnz/Miscellaneous/notes1.jpg
Michael in Maine
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Krause
The discussion on laminating struts has touched on glue/adhesives to
be used, or that could be used. When building the aircraft, using the
two part epoxy adhesives (T-88) is a little cumbersome. What about
single stage poly urethane adhesives/glues, i.e. Gorilla Glue, Titebond?
Has anyone used these, with what results? There are mixed reviews on
this subject: Fine Woodworking (August '07) and
woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html . I am sure there are other
reports both supportive and contradictive.
I have tested Gorilla Glue with aircraft spruce and plywood, spruce
long grain to long grain and butt to long grain and cross grain: with
proper usage, the wood breaks before the glue bond. That is, wood
grains come off with the break.
Hope this does not cause any consternation!
Ray Krause
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: engine run up
This is VERY exciting...
-----Original Message-----
>From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Feb 27, 2010 11:33 AM
>To: pietenpolgroup
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: engine run up
>
>
>Brought my wings to the airstrip but left the fuse in my workshop to do some
>engine runups at home, close by my tools. The engine has 14hrs in the test
>stand, but this was the first time running in the fuselage. With one inch
>of snow on the ground, and temps in the high twenties, it was a bit nippy,
>but she started right off and purred along beautifully. Am trying an
>Aerocarb, and have about three hours on it. So far I really like it. Seems
>like the sticky slide bugs and fuel leaking have been worked out, but we'll
>see. With this type of carb, one does have to be careful about switching
>off the fuel or it'll sit there and drip eventually. However, having two
>moving parts and no venturi or butterfly valve to ice up are big plusses in
>my book. But, we'll see... so far, so good. If it doesn't work out, I'll
>go back to the weber which has been bomb-proof.
>
>Hopefully will get the fuse to the airport now in a couple of weeks and put
>her together for the final time, do some ground runs, debugging and get Mr.
>Frank down here to do the honors as soon as the weather cooporates.
>
>Fun stuff!
>
>Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hi Gary,
-
That's beautiful! I can see you beefed up the tubes at the end, but, have y
ou considered adding a tube between the two arms? like an "A", to help with
the torsional loads.- I'm not flying yet, but I can see that most people
with this setup and a steerable tail wheel had to do that.
Dan H.- maybe you-should to consider doing the same thing, now that you
have an steerable tail wheel.
I would like to know the opinion of more experienced people.
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: engine run up
Hi Douwe,
That's wonderful, congratulations!
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: International Piet
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Just stumbled across this shot of a "Pietenpol Air Camper" from the Czech Republic.
I think it more likely started life as a GN-1.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/1638829/L/
Funny how some "personal touches" can drastically change the look of this plane.
Some of the "special features" this plane has include V-struts, a dorsal fin,
squat landing gear, and a clunky cowl. Also, the cockpits look to be stretched.
Put these features all together, and the result is YUCK. Well, that's just
my opinion. There are probably some people out there that think this thing looks
good. I think that planes like this one provide a good argument for the recommendation
to "stick to the plans".
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288523#288523
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Thanks, Santiago! I have noticed that extra tube on some pictures, but don't
really understand the geometry that would require it, unless it may take
some load off the brackets, bolted to the fuselage.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of santiago
morete
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hi Gary,
That's beautiful! I can see you beefed up the tubes at the end, but, have
you considered adding a tube between the two arms? like an "A", to help with
the torsional loads. I'm not flying yet, but I can see that most people
with this setup and a steerable tail wheel had to do that.
Dan H. maybe you should to consider doing the same thing, now that you have
an steerable tail wheel.
I would like to know the opinion of more experienced people.
Saludos
Santiago
_____
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Subject: Re: International Piet
From: Pastor Mike Townsley <allischalmersguy(at)gmail.com>
Bill,
I am with you on that opinion. I know others may differ.
Mike Townsley
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 3:26 AM, Bill Church wrote:
> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
>
> Just stumbled across this shot of a "Pietenpol Air Camper" from the Czech
> Republic. I think it more likely started life as a GN-1.
>
> http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pietenpol-Aircamper/1638829/L/
>
> Funny how some "personal touches" can drastically change the look of this
> plane. Some of the "special features" this plane has include V-struts, a
> dorsal fin, squat landing gear, and a clunky cowl. Also, the cockpits look
> to be stretched. Put these features all together, and the result is YUCK.
> Well, that's just my opinion. There are probably some people out there that
> think this thing looks good. I think that planes like this one provide a
> good argument for the recommendation to "stick to the plans".
>
> BC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288523#288523
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Gary,
I have wondered the same thing. Is that extra tube really necessary? The
fuselage/bracket attach points are only a couple inches away, and it woul
d seem to me that that tube would be redundant. Wish some engineering type
s would chime in on this (Bill?, EH?) Santiago, what do you mean "torsion
al"loads? Twisting?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 1:19 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
Thanks, Santiago! I have noticed that extra tube on some pictures, but don
=99t really understand the geometry that would require it, unless it
may take some load off the brackets, bolted to the fuselage.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of santiago morete
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hi Gary,
That's beautiful! I can see you beefed up the tubes at the end, but, have
you considered adding a tube between the two arms? like an "A", to help
with the torsional loads. I'm not flying yet, but I can see that most pe
ople with this setup and a steerable tail wheel had to do that.
Dan H. maybe you should to consider doing the same thing, now that you ha
ve an steerable tail wheel.
I would like to know the opinion of more experienced people.
Saludos
Santiago
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Keep wishing, Dan!
Oh, all right... I'll "chime in".
I can see how one could think that such a cross member wouldn't be necessary, since
the forward arms are connected to the fuselage - but those connections at
the fuselage can't really resist twisting. And the tailwheel assembly will definitely
be imparting twisting forces on the fuselage brackets. The geometry of
a tailwheel is different from the skid, in that it's contact point with the
ground is several inches away from the steel frame, whereas the skid is immediately
below the frame. This arrangement provides what is called a moment arm (engineering
term), and the result is that when the tail of the plane is subjected
to side loads, the tailwheel will try to twist the steel frame. If the tubes
are not tied together (other than back where the tailwheel is attached), the
individual tubes will twist. By welding a crossmember between the two arms,
the arms are no longer able to twist individually, and the twisting forces will
be transferred directly to the fuselage rather than those tubes and the mounting
brackets. Attached is a shot I found that shows the assembly that Ken Perkins
makes, and the cross member can clearly be seen.
This cross member won't eliminate the twisting of the steel frame, since it's basically
only two dimensional, but it will definitely be better than not having
the cross member.
Hope this helps.
Bill C. (engineering type)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288532#288532
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kp_tailwheel_111.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Having built my tailwheel first without the cross tube and finding that
tailwheel steering inputs went mostly into twisting the tailwheel arm rather
than turning the wheel, I rebuilt it and added the cross tube making the
ailwheel arm into an "A" shape. That works well. Here is the original one:
And here is the improved version:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hi Gary,
I have wondered the same thing. Is that extra tube really necessary? The
fuselage/bracket attach points are only a couple inches away, and it would
seem to me that that tube would be redundant. Wish some engineering types
would chime in on this (Bill?, EH?) Santiago, what do you mean
"torsional"loads? Twisting?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 1:19 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
Thanks, Santiago! I have noticed that extra tube on some pictures, but don't
really understand the geometry that would require it, unless it may take
some load off the brackets, bolted to the fuselage.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
_____
From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>
owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of santiago
morete
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hi Gary,
That's beautiful! I can see you beefed up the tubes at the end, but, have
you considered adding a tube between the two arms? like an "A", to help with
the torsional loads. I'm not flying yet, but I can see that most people
with this setup and a steerable tail wheel had to do that.
Dan H. maybe you should to consider doing the same thing, now that you have
an steerable tail wheel.
I would like to know the opinion of more experienced people.
Saludos
Santiago
_____
Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina.
<http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/> http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
<http://forums.matronics.com/> http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Oh ALLRIGHT! Now I have to add more weight way back there! UGH! Who asked
you to chime in anyway?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 3:19 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
a>
Keep wishing, Dan!
Oh, all right... I'll "chime in".
I can see how one could think that such a cross member wouldn't be necessa
ry,
ince the forward arms are connected to the fuselage - but those connection
s at
he fuselage can't really resist twisting. And the tailwheel assembly will
efinitely be imparting twisting forces on the fuselage brackets. The geome
try
f a tailwheel is different from the skid, in that it's contact point with
the
round is several inches away from the steel frame, whereas the skid is
mmediately below the frame. This arrangement provides what is called a mom
ent
rm (engineering term), and the result is that when the tail of the plane
is
ubjected to side loads, the tailwheel will try to twist the steel frame.
If the
ubes are not tied together (other than back where the tailwheel is attache
d),
he individual tubes will twist. By welding a crossmember between the two
arms,
he arms are no longer able to twist individually, and the twisting forces
will
e transferred directly to the fuselage rather tha!
n those tubes and the mounting brackets. Attached is a shot I found that
shows
he assembly that Ken Perkins makes, and the cross member can clearly be se
en.
his cross member won't eliminate the twisting of the steel frame, since it
's
asically only two dimensional, but it will definitely be better than not
having
he cross member.
Hope this helps.
Bill C. (engineering type)
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288532#288532
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kp_tailwheel_111.jpg
-========================
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Piet-N-Pup
I will ask the builder what his all-up weight is for him and plane.
BTW, he's not getting the static rpm that he should be getting.
>I own both a GN-1 Aircamper and an N3Pup but the pup is not very
>good with the 1/2 VW in it at only 28hp so I'm switching the engine
>back to the 503 rotax at 52 hp with reduction drive.The only thing I
>can get out of the pup right now is a good fast taxi and on a good
>day just get airborn.Kinda scary actually.If I had one of those
>Scott Cassler 45hp on it that would make all the difference in the
>world but can't afford one at this time.I was ablr to pick up a 503
>at $1800 US but the 45hp 1/2 VW comes in at $6000 CND to my door.I
>don't know what the guy in the video is using but it sounds stronger
>than mine.I am sitting at 210 lbs right now.If I was at the 145lbs I
>should be at then the 1/2VW I have now would probably be OK.I know,I
>know,it would be cheaper to loose the weight than change the
>engine.Very hard to loose it at 63 years old.
>
>
>From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 6:52:13 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet-N-Pup
>
>-===========================
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
Subject: Re: anybody near Portland?
Here are a couple Clif.
1) A self-portrait with a rental 150 that I took while on my long
student pilot solo cross-country.
2) Panorama (from 7 individual photos) taken during EAA Chapter's Poker
Run. My rental 150 is on the left of the 13 aircraft parked outside the
blimp hangar.
Clif Dawson wrote:
> This thing is incredible! I have a photo somewhere of my Cherokee in
> front of the
> doors. The cherokee is just a tiny blip at the bottom of the photo!
>
> Clif
>
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: anybody near Portland?
>
> There is also a great air museum in Tillamook Oregon. That is just
> over to the coast from Portland. It is in an old WW2 blip hanger.
> I nice museum not too far from Portland.
>
> vic groah NX414MV
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: engine run up
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Douwe. A few teaspoons of Marvel, or as I do, try 2 cycle synthetic in the fuel
for the first 5 hours, I use it all the time
Go Snow, some where to help the warming problem!
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288548#288548
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Tailwheel & shimmy
Yes Dan, twisting, sorry if I'm not using the right words.- I guess you a
re thinking, at this point,-that a tailskid would be nice, simple, light
and you already have one! :-)
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0A=0AEncontra las mejores recetas con
Yahoo! Cocina.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Hey! It's still lighter than a leafspring arrangement. I originally used a
Scott Tailwheel with a leafspring and then went with an Aircraft Spruce
"Homebuilder's Special" tailwheel with the A arm and save nearly 4 pounds.
Leaf springs are HEAVY.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Oh ALLRIGHT! Now I have to add more weight way back there! UGH! Who asked
you to chime in anyway?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
Date: Feb 27, 2010
There were two glue articles.
Here is the first one.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
>
>
> If anyone is a member or subscriber to "Fine Woodworking",
> they ran a glue comparison in August of 2007 on six
> of the common wood glues, here:
>
> http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
>
> I'm not a member so I can't access the article but I
> think I remember the results and Gorilla Glue didn't
> place too well in the tests. My own experience with
> it has NOT been on airplane stuff but what I've found
> is that even with the air squeezed out of the container
> and the container tightly capped, the stuff will set
> up on the shelf and be useless so there's no point in
> buying more than you can readily use. It also foams
> out of the joint considerably, if you care about that.
>
> It's T88 for me...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
Date: Feb 27, 2010
And the second one....
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:41 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
>
>
> If anyone is a member or subscriber to "Fine Woodworking",
> they ran a glue comparison in August of 2007 on six
> of the common wood glues, here:
>
> http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
>
> I'm not a member so I can't access the article but I
> think I remember the results and Gorilla Glue didn't
> place too well in the tests. My own experience with
> it has NOT been on airplane stuff but what I've found
> is that even with the air squeezed out of the container
> and the container tightly capped, the stuff will set
> up on the shelf and be useless so there's no point in
> buying more than you can readily use. It also foams
> out of the joint considerably, if you care about that.
>
> It's T88 for me...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: anybody near Portland?
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Thanks Ken,
My mother did not have any pictures of Tillamook, so now I have some
idea of what it was like when she was there in 1944-45.
Kip Gardner
On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Ken Howe wrote:
> Here are a couple Clif.
>
> 1) A self-portrait with a rental 150 that I took while on my long
> student pilot solo cross-country.
>
> 2) Panorama (from 7 individual photos) taken during EAA Chapter's
> Poker
> Run. My rental 150 is on the left of the 13 aircraft parked outside
> the
> blimp hangar.
>
> Clif Dawson wrote:
>> This thing is incredible! I have a photo somewhere of my Cherokee
>> in front of the
>> doors. The cherokee is just a tiny blip at the bottom of the photo!
>> Clif
>> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: anybody near Portland?
>> There is also a great air museum in Tillamook Oregon. That is
>> just
>> over to the coast from Portland. It is in an old WW2 blip
>> hanger. I nice museum not too far from Portland. vic
>> groah NX414MV *
>> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wayne & Cathy Boniface" <catway(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Hey guys: on your "A" frame tail wheel assembly what do you use for a
spring.
is this something that acs carries or something you had to find
somewhere else
I'm thinking the coil spring from the front end of a motorcycle, or is
that to stiff,
this is getting to me so any ideas would be appreciated.
wayne
waterloo on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
John Deere. I can dig up the part # tomorrow.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wayne &
Cathy Boniface
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hey guys: on your "A" frame tail wheel assembly what do you use for a
spring.
is this something that acs carries or something you had to find somewhere
else
I'm thinking the coil spring from the front end of a motorcycle, or is that
to stiff,
this is getting to me so any ideas would be appreciated.
wayne
waterloo on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 27, 2010
Here is a repeat of a post from 1997.....
"John Deere sells a spring that's a perfect match for the specs;
its part number is
T 143444, and it costs about $9.00. Its outer dia. is 1.5
in.; full length
( no load ) is 6.73" ; the coil itself is .191" thick. I've
tested its compresed
load, and it almost gets totally compressed under my weight (c.
210 lbs.). I
don't know what the spring is used for in a John Deere, but
Ken Perkins tells
me that the spring for a 1929 JD rake is a perfect match.
Maybe "that's what
it's for."
This is the spring I used and I think it cost me $19 a couple of years ago
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From: wayne & Cathy Boniface
Sent: 2/27/2010 8:51:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hey guys: on your "A" frame tail wheel assembly what do you use for a spring.
is this something that acs carries or something you had to find somewhere else
I'm thinking the coil spring from the front end of a motorcycle, or is that to
stiff,
this is getting to me so any ideas would be appreciated.
wayne
waterloo on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 28, 2010
I just bought one a few months ago. I think the part number is still
good, and it cost about 19.00
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Schreiber<mailto:lmforge(at)earthlink.net>
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Here is a repeat of a post from 1997.....
"John Deere sells a spring that's a perfect match for the specs;
its part number is
T 143444, and it costs about $9.00. Its outer dia. is 1.5
in.; full length
( no load ) is 6.73" ; the coil itself is .191" thick. I've
tested its compresed
load, and it almost gets totally compressed under my weight (c.
210 lbs.). I
don't know what the spring is used for in a John Deere, but
Ken Perkins tells
me that the spring for a 1929 JD rake is a perfect match.
Maybe "that's what
it's for."
This is the spring I used and I think it cost me $19 a couple of years
agoRick SchreiberValparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From: wayne & Cathy Boniface<mailto:catway(at)sympatico.ca>
To:
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: 2/27/2010 8:51:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hey guys: on your "A" frame tail wheel assembly what do you use for
a spring.
is this something that acs carries or something you had to find
somewhere else
I'm thinking the coil spring from the front end of a motorcycle, or
is that to stiff,
this is getting to me so any ideas would be appreciated.
wayne
waterloo on.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
on>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 28, 2010
I got mine from McMaster-Carr. I don't remember the part number but you can
look at their springs online and figure it out.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wayne &
Cathy Boniface
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hey guys: on your "A" frame tail wheel assembly what do you use for a
spring.
is this something that acs carries or something you had to find somewhere
else
I'm thinking the coil spring from the front end of a motorcycle, or is that
to stiff,
this is getting to me so any ideas would be appreciated.
wayne
waterloo on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tailwheel arm
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Dan,
I did the same thing, converting from a skid to a tailwheel and learned a
lesson I want to share. My tailwheel arms had pins that stuck into the fuse
brackets, but when I put the cross member in, I could no long spread the arm
to get the pins in. I had to take off the fuse fittings, mount the arm and
then reassemble onto the fuse. If you used the original design, you might
want to watch out for this one.
Good luck!
D
ps. I'll just send pics once it's all together at the field becuase now it
just looks like a fuselage again!!
pss. Applying dimple tape in the next couple of days to do another runup
and see what it does to my static rpm, will report back
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wayne & Cathy Boniface" <catway(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 28, 2010
thanks guy's, I'm off to our John Deer dealer,
wayne
waterloo on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Wayne I went to a used tractor parts dealed. Told him what I was
looking for and he sent me back to a building out back where I went thru
a pile of springs looking for the right ones. I think they came to
about $2.00 ea.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: wayne & Cathy Boniface
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel & shimmy
Hey guys: on your "A" frame tail wheel assembly what do you use for a
spring.
is this something that acs carries or something you had to find
somewhere else
I'm thinking the coil spring from the front end of a motorcycle, or is
that to stiff,
this is getting to me so any ideas would be appreciated.
wayne
waterloo on.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: tailwheel arm
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Or use bolts to attach it to the fuselage, rather than pins.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:43 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tailwheel arm
Dan,
I did the same thing, converting from a skid to a tailwheel and learned a
lesson I want to share. My tailwheel arms had pins that stuck into the fuse
brackets, but when I put the cross member in, I could no long spread the arm
to get the pins in. I had to take off the fuse fittings, mount the arm and
then reassemble onto the fuse. If you used the original design, you might
want to watch out for this one.
Good luck!
D
ps. I'll just send pics once it's all together at the field becuase now it
just looks like a fuselage again!!
pss. Applying dimple tape in the next couple of days to do another runup
and see what it does to my static rpm, will report back
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe(at)calply.com>
Subject: Wood Cabanes
Date: Feb 28, 2010
A few days back, the subject of wood cabanes came up again. I remembered
that Clif Dawson had sent me some facts and figures to back up, Why it's OK
to use Wood for Cabanes:
"Spruce has a tensile strength of 6700 lb/square inch.
For the sake of argument let's say a strut is 1" X 3 1/2". With
streamlining, the area should be 2/3 of the square area, or 2.3 square inch.
There are four struts or 5.2 square inches. That's 34840 lbs (yes I know the
front ones take the majority of the load) .Dividing on the assumption of
equal load on a 1200 lb AC we get 29 g! How much less if properly
calculated? 25 g? 20 g? Is this adequate?
There's a bolt at each end. The strength here is based on how much force
required to pull a plug of wood out by the bolt. That plug has two faces,
the square area of which is the width of the strut times the distance from
the end to the bolt. If the strut is 1" thick and the bolt is 1" from the
end then you have two faces each 1" square or two square inches. The "shear
parallel to the grain" is 1120 lb per square inch. So we have a strength
here of 2240 lb. Four struts so that's a total of 8960 lb. That's still over
7 g. If we added another such bolt we have 14 g capacity. Taking into
account the higher front strut stress I'd bet we still have at least 10 g to
play with.
And this is for plain, solid spruce, no plywood, no laminated straps or
embedded tubing or anything else to complicate matters.
You can add a little more strength by using Western Hemlock or Doug Fir but
not much. "
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(18 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: dimpletape on a Ford
Date: Feb 28, 2010
I applied the dimpletape to my Ford prop and ran it in pretty much the same
conditions as yesterday and my best guess is that it gained 20 to 25rpm
static. While I was hoping for a bit more, this is certainly better than
nothing.
It was interesting because though the tach showed differently, I'd swear the
engine was stronger, and it was a bit quieter and easier sounding.
I'm gonna leave it on, as it is almost invisible.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Pietn38b(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Subject: Re: Aluminum struts
Bryan
Sorry for the late reply. Din not get out to the hanger until today. The
strut material measures 3 1/4 by 1 1/4. I used 4130 for the cabanes as it
was given to me.Hope this is of some use.
Jim Ballew
Collinsville, OK
In a message dated 2/24/2010 10:20:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com writes:
What size did you use for the cabanes and struts Jim?
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: _Pietn38b(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Pietn38b(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts
All
These are done the same way I did mine in 1995. I have taken mine apart a
couple of times to check for corrosion, all looks good. I got my strut
material from a kit manufacturer in Kansas. Rans Aircraft I think. At the
time the cost was about 1/4th the cost of making them from 4130.
Jim Ballew
Pietenpol N38B
Collinsville, Ok.
In a message dated 2/24/2010 8:00:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
helspersew(at)aol.com writes:
Hi All,
I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert is 7075
aluminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting (not shown) is
the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut fitting (ACS or
Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with 1/4" bolts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Dowe, Just wondering how much the dimple tape costs. I was also wondering how
it was to work with, as far as attatching it to the prop. I was debating on when
to apply it, before or after varnish? I have a spare prop that I am planning
on putting the dimple tape on for the corvair.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Dowe, Just wondering how much the dimple tape costs. I was also wondering how
it was to work with, as far as attatching it to the prop. I was debating on when
to apply it, before or after varnish? I have a spare prop that I am planning
on putting the dimple tape on for the corvair.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bryan green" <lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Aluminum struts
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Thanks Jim that's a big help. My rear struts and cabanes are damaged,
but the front struts are ok. I think I'll use the rear struts to
fabricate new cabanes and make aluminum rear struts.
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietn38b(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts
Bryan
Sorry for the late reply. Din not get out to the hanger until today.
The strut material measures 3 1/4 by 1 1/4. I used 4130 for the cabanes
as it was given to me.Hope this is of some use.
Jim Ballew
Collinsville, OK
In a message dated 2/24/2010 10:20:28 A.M. Central Standard Time,
lgreen1(at)sc.rr.com writes:
What size did you use for the cabanes and struts Jim?
Bryan Green
Elgin SC
----- Original Message -----
From: Pietn38b(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum struts
All
These are done the same way I did mine in 1995. I have taken mine
apart a couple of times to check for corrosion, all looks good. I got
my strut material from a kit manufacturer in Kansas. Rans Aircraft I
think. At the time the cost was about 1/4th the cost of making them from
4130.
Jim Ballew
Pietenpol N38B
Collinsville, Ok.
In a message dated 2/24/2010 8:00:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
helspersew(at)aol.com writes:
Hi All,
I used the alum struts like Larry Williams. The aluminum insert
is 7075 aluminum that I got from Mcmastercarr.com. The bottom fitting
(not shown) is the 7075 insert, that I tapped for J-3 forked wing strut
fitting (ACS or Wag Aero?). Inserts are bolted through the strut with
1/4" bolts.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
t
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Douwe,
Where did you get the dimple tape?
Thanks,
Jeff
>
>
>I applied the dimpletape to my Ford prop and ran it in pretty much the same
>conditions as yesterday and my best guess is that it gained 20 to 25rpm
>static. While I was hoping for a bit more, this is certainly better than
>nothing.
>
>It was interesting because though the tach showed differently, I'd swear the
>engine was stronger, and it was a bit quieter and easier sounding.
>
>I'm gonna leave it on, as it is almost invisible.
>
>Douwe
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Jeff,
You can get it straight from the person that invented it:
http://www.dimpletape.com/
Make sure to check out the usage examples....you can tape your prop, your
wings, and you can give the leftover to your beret-wearing speed skater
friends, or you can apply it to the wing on your 1981 Ford LTD. :P
Ryan
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
>
> Douwe,
>
> Where did you get the dimple tape?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>>
>> I applied the dimpletape to my Ford prop and ran it in pretty much the
>> same
>> conditions as yesterday and my best guess is that it gained 20 to 25rpm
>> static. While I was hoping for a bit more, this is certainly better than
>> nothing.
>>
>> It was interesting because though the tach showed differently, I'd swear
>> the
>> engine was stronger, and it was a bit quieter and easier sounding.
>>
>> I'm gonna leave it on, as it is almost invisible.
>>
>> Douwe
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Ryan,
Thanks for the link. If I wrap my head with it, will I think faster?
I guess like MMO, it couldn't hurt! =-O
Jeff
>Jeff,
>
>You can get it straight from the person that invented it:
>
><http://www.dimpletape.com/>http://www.dimpletape.com/
>
>Make sure to check out the usage examples....you can tape your prop,
>your wings, and you can give the leftover to your beret-wearing
>speed skater friends, or you can apply it to the wing on your 1981
>Ford LTD. :P
>
>Ryan
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Thanks!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
> And the second one....
>
> Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:41 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone is a member or subscriber to "Fine Woodworking",
>> they ran a glue comparison in August of 2007 on six
>> of the common wood glues, here:
>>
>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
>>
>> I'm not a member so I can't access the article but I
>> think I remember the results and Gorilla Glue didn't
>> place too well in the tests. My own experience with
>> it has NOT been on airplane stuff but what I've found
>> is that even with the air squeezed out of the container
>> and the container tightly capped, the stuff will set
>> up on the shelf and be useless so there's no point in
>> buying more than you can readily use. It also foams
>> out of the joint considerably, if you care about that.
>>
>> It's T88 for me...
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Subject: Markle Mania 2010 final results
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Good evening everyone,
We are emailing this evening to distribute the final update regarding Markle
Mania 2010, the effort to help Jim Markle keep his Pietenpol project. We
have received 73 generous donations out of 78 that were pledged, for a grand
total of $*6490.50*. No further donations have arrived in the past few
weeks, so I think it is safe to say that we can draw this to a close.
As I noted above, we received 78 pledged donations that were emailed to
marklepietenpolfund(at)gmail.com. Over the past month we have received 73 of
those pledged donations via checks in the mail, Paypal payments, and even a
Western Union transfer (first time I had ever used them!). Money came in
from generous contributors all across the US, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, and
Australia (I'm pretty sure that's everyone, if I missed your country I
apologize). This was truly a global effort to help a most valued member of
the Pietenpol community keep his dream alive.
We spoke with Jim last month after we started collecting contributions, and
asked about how he wanted to do the payout. We agreed to send one large
payment at that time for whatever we had collected, and then we would
forward the remainder to him later on. We made one transfer on Feb 8 for
$5,985.50, and the final transfer on Feb 24 for $455. Here are links to two
screen captures from the online banking page of the Bank of America account
we used for collecting the funds, showing the transfers made to Jim:
Transfer 1 <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/markle1.jpg>:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/markle1.jpg
Transfer 2 <http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/markle2.jpg>:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/markle2.jpg
In addition to the funds sent to us, Jim did receive one check in the mail
for $50. Add that to the $6440.50 that we transferred to him and we arrive
at the grand total of $6,490.50.
Commemorative "stock certificates" are in the works. We're not sure whether
we will try to print and mail those out; we may do a digital certificate in
PDF format, and then those that wish to have hard copies may print them out
themselves. We may also try to have some sort of informal get-together at
Brodhead 2010, possibly a "certificate burning", we're not sure yet. We may
even have a t-shirt design made up that could be purchased from CafePress.
We will work with other members of the Pietenpol community on this, and will
update everyone later this year when we figure out the details.
We want to thank everyone who participated in Markle Mania 2010. This is an
unbelievable community of airplane builders and aviation enthusiasts that we
are so fortunate to be a part of; thank you for doing your part to help Jim
keep the dream of building and flying his Pietenpol alive. As I'm sure you
do, we look forward to the day when Jim's Piet rolls off the grass and into
the sky, hopefully winging it's way to Brodhead.
Thank you again, and have a good evening!
Ryan Mueller & Jessica Ozbirn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ray Krause" <raykrause(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
Date: Feb 28, 2010
Thanks, again!
Ray Krause
----- Original Message -----
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
> There were two glue articles.
> Here is the first one.
>
> Greg Cardinal
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
> To: "Pietenpol List"
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:41 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sky Scout..."Glue"question?
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone is a member or subscriber to "Fine Woodworking",
>> they ran a glue comparison in August of 2007 on six
>> of the common wood glues, here:
>>
>> http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897
>>
>> I'm not a member so I can't access the article but I
>> think I remember the results and Gorilla Glue didn't
>> place too well in the tests. My own experience with
>> it has NOT been on airplane stuff but what I've found
>> is that even with the air squeezed out of the container
>> and the container tightly capped, the stuff will set
>> up on the shelf and be useless so there's no point in
>> buying more than you can readily use. It also foams
>> out of the joint considerably, if you care about that.
>>
>> It's T88 for me...
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: dimpletape
Date: Mar 01, 2010
First off, THANK YOU! Ryan for doing the scutwork of "Markle Mania" ensuring
that a great idea was turned into action.
Shad, the dimpletape was easy to work with, just follow the directions. His
price is on the order form from his website. You have to order it the old
fashioned way and send him a ck. I made sure both the tape and the prop
were warm since it's freezing here, stuck it on, rubbed it down with the
backside of a spoon and started her up. For a permanent installation, he
recommends flowing some crazy glue around the edges, and you can spray a
thin coat of urathane over it if you please. I'm going to just use the
crazy glue. I'd varnish your prop first and if you want to varnish over the
tape, install the tape before the final coat. I don't think you should fill
the holes in the tape with too much varnish. I spoke with the guy, and he
says you can do the same thing on a wood prop by using the tape as a pattern
and dimple the prop surface using a 1/8th inch ball grinder in a dremel and
doing halfway in. There's a picture of this on the site.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Pietenpol logo
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Does anybody have a good quality Pietenpol logo in jpeg or something
similar?
I want to have some old-fashioned white mechanics coveralls silscreened with
a cool logo on the back. I found a neat old mobilgas logo, but then got to
thinking about the classic Pietenpol signature.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Pietenpol logo
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Douwe,
This is all I have, not sure who to credit with the design
Jack
DSM
Does anybody have a good quality Pietenpol logo in jpeg or something
similar?
I want to have some old-fashioned white mechanics coveralls silscreened with
a cool logo on the back. I found a neat old mobilgas logo, but then got to
thinking about the classic Pietenpol signature.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
There's always this one...
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288731#288731
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/bhplogo_752.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Are there any other Listers out there using Dimpletape, and, if so, how much performance
increase is realized? Cheers, Gardiner Mason
________________________________
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Sun, February 28, 2010 10:15:48 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a
Ford
Ryan,
Thanks for the link. If I wrap my head with it, will I think
faster? I guess like MMO, it couldn't hurt! =-O
Jeff
Jeff,
>
>>You can get it straight from the person that invented it:
>
http://www.dimpletape.com/
>
>>Make sure to check out the usage examples....you can tape your prop,
>your wings, and you can give the leftover to your beret-wearing speed
>skater friends, or you can apply it to the wing on your 1981 Ford
>LTD. :P
>
Ryan
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
Pieti,
I watched the videos Jeff B. put on Youtube of your talk at Brodhead
last year. You mentioned that you kept your AoI of 2 degrees from the
FC-10 and that you'd probably like to see it at 1 degree or less because
at flat out cruise you've got to apply a significant (30-40lbs) amount
of forward pressure on the stick.
The question I have is this: did you build the angle of incidence into
the spar orientation in the ribs or did you keep the spars at a 90
degree angle to the wing chord?
Also, looking at the Riblett 612, I see that if you keep the front spar
the same distance from the leading edge as the FC1-1, 6 inches, that
dictates that the front spar and the rear spar will not be aligned,
vertically - the front spar must be shifted down an inch or so to fit in
the rib with respect to the aft spar. How did you address this? Did
you even worry about it?
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Dan,
Sure sounds like somebody is going full speed ahead on building another Pi
et. :O)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 9:18 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
Pieti,
I watched the videos Jeff B. put on Youtube of your talk at Brodhead last
year. You mentioned that you kept your AoI of 2 degrees from the FC-10 an
d that you'd probably like to see it at 1 degree or less because at flat
out cruise you've got to apply a significant (30-40lbs) amount of forward
pressure on the stick.
The question I have is this: did you build the angle of incidence into the
spar orientation in the ribs or did you keep the spars at a 90 degree ang
le to the wing chord?
Also, looking at the Riblett 612, I see that if you keep the front spar th
e same distance from the leading edge as the FC1-1, 6 inches, that dictate
s that the front spar and the rear spar will not be aligned, vertically -
the front spar must be shifted down an inch or so to fit in the rib with
respect to the aft spar. How did you address this? Did you even worry abo
ut it?
Thanks,
Dan
-- Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
========================
============
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: John Hofmann's tribute video (Markle)
For those whom may have missed it, John's video is awesome! Very, well done
and very funny! I have watched it a handfull of times now and think it is
great. The link is below.- I am honored to be mentioned in the video as w
ere many of the viewers of this list.
-
FYI, the Pin the Tail on Perez GAME will be for sale on my site if I ever f
igure out how to make it. (This is NOT an invite for suggestions either)
-
http://gallery.me.com/johnnyskyrocket#100017
-
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Wow Douwe!
Over the past week or so I was thinking exactly the same thing. The logo would
need to look 'period correct'. I'll look around in some of my '30s aviation
books and magazines to try to see some from those times. I know they were quite
popular back then. Maybe the price would come down if we could get a few of
them made up. Do you know where you can get a set of nice cotton white coveralls?
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288772#288772
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Gardiner,
Bill Rewey wrote an article in one of the last 3 BPA newsletters on his
use of the dimpletape. He says he gets about 10% decrease in fuel
consumption using it on his prop.
If anyone's willing to put the stuff on their wing, I'd be interested in
seeing what results they get. I reckon it would act quite a bit like VGs.
Dan
On 03/01/2010 08:35 AM, airlion wrote:
> Are there any other Listers out there using Dimpletape, and, if so, how
> much performance increase is realized? Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jeff Boatright
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sun, February 28, 2010 10:15:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
>
> Ryan,
>
> Thanks for the link. If I wrap my head with it, will I think faster? I
> guess like MMO, it couldn't hurt! =-O
>
> Jeff
>
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> You can get it straight from the person that invented it:
>> http://www.dimpletape.com/
>>
>> Make sure to check out the usage examples....you can tape your prop,
>> your wings, and you can give the leftover to your beret-wearing speed
>> skater friends, or you can apply it to the wing on your 1981 Ford LTD. :P
>> Ryan
>
>
> --
>
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo
I am VERY SLOWLY working on logos for our planes as well as homebuilts and experimentals.
(this doesn't do you guys any good right now.) I have a couple prototypes
in work, but they are full color and have a more modern "feel." (this does
not help you guys either.) I made up some iron on transfers from these and
was not happy with how that worked. (could have been the cheap paper I used)
I could work on a more nostalgic looking logo, but I am not clear yet as to how
to get it from Photo Shop on to a decal, iron on, silk screen, etc. with the
quality I want.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
I am planning to use dimple tape on the prop and VGs on the wing. If it can
be proven that dimple tape is just as good in this application, I would us
e it. I think that would look a little nicer then the VGs. (How would both
dimple tape and VGs work on the wing?)
--- On Mon, 3/1/10, Dan Yocum wrote:
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:25 PM
Gardiner,
Bill Rewey wrote an article in one of the last 3 BPA newsletters on his
use of the dimpletape.- He says he gets about 10% decrease in fuel
consumption using it on his prop.
If anyone's willing to put the stuff on their wing, I'd be interested in
seeing what results they get. I reckon it would act quite a bit like VGs.
Dan
On 03/01/2010 08:35 AM, airlion wrote:
> Are there any other Listers out there using Dimpletape, and, if so, how
> much performance increase is realized? Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Jeff Boatright
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Sun, February 28, 2010 10:15:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
>
> Ryan,
>
> Thanks for the link. If I wrap my head with it, will I think faster? I
> guess like MMO, it couldn't hurt! =-O
>
> Jeff
>
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> You can get it straight from the person that invented it:
>> http://www.dimpletape.com/
>>
>> Make sure to check out the usage examples....you can tape your prop,
>> your wings, and you can give the leftover to your beret-wearing speed
>> skater friends, or you can apply it to the wing on your 1981 Ford LTD. :
P
>> Ryan
>
>
> --
>
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab- 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
le, List Admin.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: John Hofmann's tribute video (Markle)
Now that was very funny.I had no idea that Jim was doing that much damage t
o the Germans.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Micha
el Perez =0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASe
nt: Mon, March 1, 2010 11:40:49 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: John Hofmann'
s tribute video (Markle)=0A=0A=0AFor those whom may have missed it, John's
video is awesome! Very, well done and very funny! I have watched it a handf
ull of times now and think it is great. The link is below.- I am honored
to be mentioned in the video as were many of the viewers of this list.=0A
=0AFYI, the Pin the Tail on Perez GAME will be for sale on my site if I eve
r figure out how to make it. (This is NOT an invite for suggestions either)
===============
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I am going to put dimple tape on my Aerona. I will report in after I have
had a chance to evaluate. Can that stuff be removed if I don't like it?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
I am planning to use dimple tape on the prop and VGs on the wing. If it ca
n be proven that dimple tape is just as good in this application, I would
use it. I think that would look a little nicer then the VGs. (How would
both dimple tape and VGs work on the wing?)
---
>
>
> --
>
>
> > *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly b= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol;
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
====
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
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===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
HOW WOULD THE TAPE WORK ON A WARP DRIVE? GARDINER
________________________________
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 12:51:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
I am planning to use dimple tape on the prop and VGs on the wing. If it can be
proven that dimple tape is just as good in this application, I would use it. I
think that would look a little nicer then the VGs. (How would both dimple tape
and VGs work on the wing?)
--- On Mon, 3/1/10, Dan Yocum wrote:
>From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:25 PM
>
>
>Gardiner,
>
>Bill Rewey wrote an article in one of the last 3 BPA newsletters on his
>use of the dimpletape. He says he gets about 10% decrease in fuel
>consumption using it on his prop.
>
>If anyone's willing to put the stuff on their wing, I'd be interested in
>seeing what results they get. I reckon it would act quite a bit like VGs.
>
>Dan
>
>On 03/01/2010 08:35 AM, airlion wrote:
>> Are there any other Listers out there using Dimpletape, and, if so, how
>> much performance increase is realized? Cheers, Gardiner Mason
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Jeff Boatright
>> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Sent:* Sun, February 28, 2010 10:15:48 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
>>
>> Ryan,
>>
>> Thanks for the link. If I wrap my head with it, will I think faster? I
>> guess like MMO, it couldn't hurt! =-O
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>> Jeff,
>>>
>>> You can get it straight from the person that invented it:
>>> http://www.dimpletape.com/
>>>
>>> Make sure to check out the usage examples....you can tape your prop,
>>> your wings, and you can give the leftover to your
> beret-wearing speed
>>> skater friends, or you can apply it to the wing on your 1981 Ford LTD. :P
>>> Ryan
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Jeff Boatright
>> "Now let's think about this..."
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>--
>Dan Yocum
>Fermilab 630.840.6509
>yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo
Douwe.
Here is the logo I'm going to put on the side of my plane. It's a modified version
of the other logo that was posted and then I added some wings. The picture
is of a sticker I made to see how I liked it ( and I've made a few minor modifications
since that sticker). I made the sticker out of some vinyl scraps
I had, so it's not the colors I will be doing when I make it for my plane but
it gives you the idea.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
________________________________
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 12:42:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo
Does anybody have a good quality Pietenpol logo in jpeg or something
similar?
I want to have some old-fashioned white mechanics coveralls silscreened with
a cool logo on the back. I found a neat old mobilgas logo, but then got to
thinking about the classic Pietenpol signature.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
I was asking a Tailwind flier friend about the dimple tape. and he said another
Tailwind guy said he tried it and it made his airplane 100$ lighter. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288821#288821
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo
Date: Mar 01, 2010
That looks way cool! Nice work!
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
On Mar 1, 2010, at 3:13 PM, Michael Groah wrote:
> Douwe.
>
> Here is the logo I'm going to put on the side of my plane. It's a
> modified version of the other logo that was posted and then I added
> some wings. The picture is of a sticker I made to see how I liked
> it ( and I've made a few minor modifications since that sticker). I
> made the sticker out of some vinyl scraps I had, so it's not the
> colors I will be doing when I make it for my plane but it gives you
> the idea.
>
> Mike Groah
> Tulare CA
>
> From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
> To: pietenpolgroup
> Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 12:42:11 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo
>
>
> <100_1166.jpg>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: gliderx5(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: dimpletape on a Ford
I look forward to seeing your results. I know several people have reported that
dimple tape allowed more RPMs, but I wonder if that translates to more thrust.
Since the propeller is an airfoil, and the tape has modified the airfoil and
cut the drag, I assume that the lift (thrust) of the airfoil may have also been
affected, but I'm not sure if it would be more lift or less. Flying, or a thrust
test would certainly show this for sure. I'm not saying that I don't believe
it will improve the thrust, just that it is unclear to ME. I have VGs on
my Kolb and I'm sold on them. I hope the dimple tape works as well.
Malcolm Morrison
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2010 1:34:51 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: dimpletape on a Ford
I am going to put dimple tape on my Aerona. I will report in after I have had a
chance to evaluate. Can that stuff be removed if I don't like it?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
I am planning to use dimple tape on the prop and VGs on the wing. If it can be
proven that dimple tape is just as good in this application, I would use it.
I think that would look a little nicer then the VGs. (How would both dimple tape
and VGs work on the wing?)
---
>
>
> --
>
>
> > *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov , http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly b= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
tion" target=_blank>http://www.======================
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: trailer
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
I don't know if there is anybody out there interested in an aircraft hauler or
not. but I would sure like to sell mine to make room in my shop to start assembling
my project I hauled home from Arizona in it after I bought it from D.J.-
Trailer is in great condition and since it is skinned with aluminum I have kept
it inside just to prevent a chance of hail dents.but I need the room worse.
if you know anyone interested I'd sure appreciate an e-mail.it has also hauled
a 2 place Challenger long wing.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288844#288844
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
I'm building a 612 wing and have just started doing the ribs with the spars perpendicular
to the chord line. You are correct that the front spar is lower than
the original but if the chord line is kept at the same angle of incidence with
respect to the fuselage as the original airfoil, then (I think) it should
be close.
I seem to remember somewhere that a 5 degree angle of incidence is a good place
to start. My rusty math skills (and a real calculator) indicate that a 1 inch
change on the cabanes gives about 2 degrees change on the angle of incidence
so the original plans recommendation of 2 inches (IIRC) difference makes mathematical
sense and approximates the 5 degree wag.
Since it'll be a couple of years before my airplane flies, I'll be interested to
see what happens with others.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288846#288846
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: economy dimpletape
Group, I have some mocck up dimple tape on the prop now. I sliced down some of
the do-it-yourselfer's adheasive perferated drywall tape. It is the stuff with
all the little round holes in it, and its a 50ft roll, 2 inches wide and about
$5 worth would probably do every pietenpol that is flying. I might try this
stuff and se how it works, just have to use some CA (model airplane super glue)
glue to hold it on, and coat it after it is done because it is just a heavy
paper. Just have to be careful not to fill in all the holes with varnish.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence--No, no, TWO
DEGREES!!!
TWO DEGREES!!!
>From my memory, the original prints call for a 2 degree angle of incidence. My
math at the time showed two degrees to be a few thousandths of an inch less
than a one (1) inch difference in the height of the cabanes.
Many conversations and a few posts on this board have referred to the front cabane
being one inch higher than the rear. Moreover, I have measured a few at Brodhead
and elsewhere, and believe that they were all very close to a one inch
difference in height. Mine is 1 inch taller.
A discussion of alternative and benefits may be warranted, but let's agree on the
original benchmark. Let me know if I am wrong.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: dgaldrich <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 1, 2010 6:52 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
>
>
>I'm building a 612 wing and have just started doing the ribs with the spars perpendicular
to the chord line. You are correct that the front spar is lower than
the original but if the chord line is kept at the same angle of incidence
with respect to the fuselage as the original airfoil, then (I think) it should
be close.
>
>I seem to remember somewhere that a 5 degree angle of incidence is a good place
to start. My rusty math skills (and a real calculator) indicate that a 1 inch
change on the cabanes gives about 2 degrees change on the angle of incidence
so the original plans recommendation of 2 inches (IIRC) difference makes mathematical
sense and approximates the 5 degree wag.
>
>Since it'll be a couple of years before my airplane flies, I'll be interested
to see what happens with others.
>
>Dave Aldrich
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288846#288846
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence--No, no, TWO DEGREES!!!
From: "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Hi Tim
Hey, at least our math is the same!!! Can't say the same for my memory. I could
have saved the aggravation by walking out to the garage but noooooooooo, it
had to be from dim memory. At least someone is reading.
I agree that we need to start from known benchmarks and 1 inch/2 degrees sounds
like it would work.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288855#288855
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: economy dimpletape
Shad,
On a serious note, how close does it look to the expensive stuff?
On a lighter note, you can always "coat it after it is done" with drywall mud ;)
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 1, 2010 7:03 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: economy dimpletape
>
>
>Group, I have some mocck up dimple tape on the prop now. I sliced down some of
the do-it-yourselfer's adheasive perferated drywall tape. It is the stuff with
all the little round holes in it, and its a 50ft roll, 2 inches wide and about
$5 worth would probably do every pietenpol that is flying. I might try this
stuff and se how it works, just have to use some CA (model airplane super
glue) glue to hold it on, and coat it after it is done because it is just a heavy
paper. Just have to be careful not to fill in all the holes with varnish.
>
>Shad
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol logo
Date: Mar 01, 2010
Mike,
It looks great, nice work! Could you share a digital version?
Thanks,
DSM
Douwe.
Here is the logo I'm going to put on the side of my plane. It's a modified
version of the other logo that was posted and then I added some wings. The
picture is of a sticker I made to see how I liked it ( and I've made a few
minor modifications since that sticker). I made the sticker out of some
vinyl scraps I had, so it's not the colors I will be doing when I make it
for my plane but it gives you the idea.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
_____
From: Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 12:42:11 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: economy dimpletape
You can get some vinyl dimple tape from a good quality sign shop.
Cheers,
Dan
On 03/01/2010 07:03 PM, shad bell wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: shad bell
>
>
> Group, I have some mocck up dimple tape on the prop now. I sliced down some
of the do-it-yourselfer's adheasive perferated drywall tape. It is the stuff
with all the little round holes in it, and its a 50ft roll, 2 inches wide and
about $5 worth would probably do every pietenpol that is flying. I might try
this stuff and se how it works, just have to use some CA (model airplane super
glue) glue to hold it on, and coat it after it is done because it is just a heavy
paper. Just have to be careful not to fill in all the holes with varnish.
>
> Shad
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
Dave,
I think you're remembering that the zero lift angle for the FC-10 is -5
degrees. The Riblett zero lift AoI is -3.9 degrees. This is all from
the discussion here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226498#226498
Pieti said he kept the Riblett AoI to be 2 degrees, the same as what he
had for the FC-10 wing.
Did you guys build the AoI into the ribs or keep it at 90 degrees to the
chord?
Thanks,
Dan
On 03/01/2010 06:52 PM, dgaldrich wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "dgaldrich"
>
> I'm building a 612 wing and have just started doing the ribs with the spars perpendicular
to the chord line. You are correct that the front spar is lower
than the original but if the chord line is kept at the same angle of incidence
with respect to the fuselage as the original airfoil, then (I think) it should
be close.
>
> I seem to remember somewhere that a 5 degree angle of incidence is a good place
to start. My rusty math skills (and a real calculator) indicate that a 1 inch
change on the cabanes gives about 2 degrees change on the angle of incidence
so the original plans recommendation of 2 inches (IIRC) difference makes mathematical
sense and approximates the 5 degree wag.
>
> Since it'll be a couple of years before my airplane flies, I'll be interested
to see what happens with others.
>
> Dave Aldrich
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288846#288846
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Piet pic
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 01, 2010
here is a great story about P-51's and their pilots but it does have a nice Piet
pic at the bottom so you might want to look. there are some other great shots
as well.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/off-topic/2400756-oshkosh-2009-wwii-pilot-reunited-with-his-airplane.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288879#288879
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol logo
From: jb.spiegel(at)us.schneider-electric.com
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Greetings all,
if there is enough interest I will burn the screens, and print the Tee
shirt/coveralls,
Jake
"Jack"
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
03/01/2010 04:39 AM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
To
cc
Subject
RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol logo
Douwe,
This is all I have, not sure who to credit with the design
Jack
DSM
Does anybody have a good quality Pietenpol logo in jpeg or something
similar?
I want to have some old-fashioned white mechanics coveralls silscreened
with
a cool logo on the back. I found a neat old mobilgas logo, but then got
to
thinking about the classic Pietenpol signature.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL
abs Email Security System.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
This is forwarded from the Corvaircraft Forum in regards to dimpletape...
John F.
Richmond, TX
-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: WilliamTCA(at)aol.com
>Sent: Mar 1, 2010 11:37 PM
>To: corvaircraft(at)mylist.net
>Subject: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
>
>John,
>
>This product generated a lot of interest about 15 years ago. If you look at
> the article they reference on the webpage, it is dated from 1998. At the
>time many of my friends and I did a lot of work on Lancair aircraft. The
>people who owned them would gladly sell their children into slavery or science
>experiments if it would make their Lancair 320/360/IVP go 15 knots faster.
>We were friends with Don Goetz, the main Lancair salesman and test pilot.
>His plane had the tape on it, which initially drew my interest. However, it
>turned out that Don had a 'dealership' for the tape and would gladly sell
>you some of the very high priced rolls right after he got done with his
>glowing testimonial.
>
>If you look at the site, note that it says that F-18s have dimples, not
>Dimple tape. If you look at the underside of an SR-71, it is corrugated.
>However, putting 1/4" deep corrugations in the underside of a set of KR wings
>would probably not get the airframe substantially closer to mach 3.
>
>in 1998 I worked for a year to modify our Pietenpol after the "Church
>parking lot incident."
>In the interest of increasing speed we;
>
>1) Switched from 8.00x4 cub tires to 6x6s with half the cross section.
>
>2) Changed from a cowl resembling a garbage can to one that looked like a
>streamlined can
>
>3) Installed an 11" spinner
>
>4) Sank the seats down 4" to bring the pilots and passengers shoulders into
> the plane.
>
>5) Did enough engine mods that it actually raised the static rpm to 2850
>from 2475
>
>6) Installed a 68" Warp drive prop in place of 64" wood that should have
>had a clock in it.
>
>7) Made new windshields that were half the height, and angled back twice as
> much.
>
>8) Made a new motor mount to take out all the down thrust and raise the
>thrust 4"
>
>9) Made new gear that discarded the J-3 bungee bags in favor of 2" die
>springs.
>
>10) Made a new exhaust system to eliminate the plume from the straight
>pipes.
>
>11) Made a folding wing hatch to eliminate scallop in trailing edge above
>pilots head.
>
>Numbers 1 through 11 netted a total of 24 mph. #5 and 6 made most of the
>difference. Had I only believed in Dimple tape, I could have saved a lot of
>work by putting 3 or 4 rolls of it on the Pietenpol. Might have taken an
>hour vs the year I spent in the shop. Shows what a luddite I am. You can't
>teach monkeys anything.
>
>On the cases where it actually makes some measurable difference when
>applied to a prop, consider two points. First, I would like to know what the
>measured Rate of Climb difference is, because a small change in static doesn't
>mean much in flight. Second, I think much of the prop benefit was because
>some of the props it was applied to were very thick, poor performers. I
>would be willing to bet it wouldn't make a measurable difference on a thin prop
>like a Warp Drive. This point is comparable to some 1980s and 1990s fast
>homebuilts that used to 'reflex' the flaps to minus 5 degrees and speed up
>a little. This actually worked on some planes, but all it really indicated
>was that the airfoil on the plane had too much camber for the cruise speed
>of the plane. It was a band aid.
>
>Thank you.
>
>John, Please forward this back to the Pietenpol forum, as I would rather
>not see a bunch of very good looking aircampers with dotted tape all over
>them at the next Brodhead.
>
>
>William Wynne
>5000-18 HWY 17 #247
>Orange Park, FL 32003
>_http://FlyCorvair.com/hangar.html_ (http://flycorvair.com/hangar.html)
>_http://ZenVair.com_ (http://flycorvair.com/)
>_________________________________________________________
>search the CorvAircraft archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp
>to UNsubscribe from CorvAircraft, send a message to CorvAircraft-leave(at)mylist.net
>Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: Markle Mania 2010 final results
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Ryan..
Thanks so much for facilitating (I DO hate this verb) the effort.
JM wanted to visit me and my project last summer; alas, I was to be at
OSH so could not accommodate him. I see my small contribution to Mania
as an act of penance and, hopefully, goodwill.
In an age of Feds throwing Billions to Bailouts, I'm warmly reminded of
what it must have been like for Our Pioneers to have lent an ox or two
to a neighbor in Spring in return for a larder full of summer corn in
Fall. Just born too late, I guess.
God Speed and Blue Skies to us all,
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Markle Mania 2010 final results
Good evening everyone,
We are emailing this evening to distribute the final update regarding
Markle Mania 2010, the effort to help Jim Markle keep his Pietenpol
project. We have received 73 generous donations out of 78 that were
pledged, for a grand total of $6490.50. No further donations have
arrived in the past few weeks, so I think it is safe to say that we can
draw this to a close.
/snipped
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence--No, no, TWO
DEGREES!!!
My prints show 2 degrees. They also show a 1" length difference between the front
and back cabanes.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
Date: Mar 02, 2010
This was primarily for thermal expansion and secondarily for stiffness.
It had nothing to do with the transition to turbulent flow, as the SR-71
operated at a very high Reynolds Number, even at "low" speeds.
David Paule
>> If you look at the underside of an SR-71, it is corrugated.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com>
This is how I'm doing my ribs: Spars are perpendicular to the chord line.
The lower surface of the Riblett 612 at the front spar location is quite a
bit below the read spar location, so I've built a spacer into the truss.
The standard 4 3/4" high spar will sit on top of the spacer and just fit to
the top capstrip. If I remember correctly (don't have my notes here at
work) the front spar still sits slightly lower than the rear with
respective to their positions in the FC10 section. When it comes time to
mount the wing I'll do the math to put the wing at the right angle so that
when the wing is at cruise AOA the fuselage will be level. That's the great
thing about building a Pietenpol, you can leave those decisions until you
have to make them.
--Ken
>
> Dave,
>
> I think you're remembering that the zero lift angle for the FC-10 is -5
> degrees. The Riblett zero lift AoI is -3.9 degrees. This is all from
> the discussion here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226498#226498
>
> Pieti said he kept the Riblett AoI to be 2 degrees, the same as what he
> had for the FC-10 wing.
>
> Did you guys build the AoI into the ribs or keep it at 90 degrees to the
> chord?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> On 03/01/2010 06:52 PM, dgaldrich wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
>> "dgaldrich"
>>
>> I'm building a 612 wing and have just started doing the ribs with the
>> spars perpendicular to the chord line. You are correct that the front
>> spar is lower than the original but if the chord line is kept at the
same
>> angle of incidence with respect to the fuselage as the original
airfoil,
>> then (I think) it should be close.
>>
>> I seem to remember somewhere that a 5 degree angle of incidence is a
>> good place to start. My rusty math skills (and a real calculator)
>> indicate that a 1 inch change on the cabanes gives about 2 degrees
change
>> on the angle of incidence so the original plans recommendation of 2
>> inches (IIRC) difference makes mathematical sense and approximates the
5
>> degree wag.
>>
>> Since it'll be a couple of years before my airplane flies, I'll be
>> interested to see what happens with others.
>>
>> Dave Aldrich
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288846#288846
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: economy dimpletape
Tim, It is just a med-heavy paper adheasive tape, with 1/8 inch holes in it. They
carry it at your local Home Depot, or Lowes. It is not actually dimpled,
it has holes, but it would probably have the same effect. I might try a sign
shop for some vinal tape as Jeff suggested. I'm not expecting a drastic increase
in performance, or economy, just a little. It also just gives us something
to experiment with for some thing to do. The perferated drywall tape, by the
way, is an easy way to get acceptable results on your drywall projects, I can
frame, but I hate drywall, and the sticky back tape makes it a little eaiser.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Dan.
I tried to build the 612 the same as the FC 10 per the drawings. 90 deg. with a
spacer T88ed to the top of the spar to rib. Harold R. suggested I use a 1 deg
angle of incidence for best performance. I would just make the change in the
cabane height. to achieve the 1 Deg. Keep in mind that my wings are clipped 2
Ft, much like a clipped wing 4412 on an earlier Piet that performed great but
much faster on landing speed. I am sure you will be satisfied with the glide using
the 612, approaches the J3.
Pieti Lowell
I watched the videos Jeff B. put on Youtube of your talk at Brodhead
last year. You mentioned that you kept your AoI of 2 degrees from the
FC-10 and that you'd probably like to see it at 1 degree or less because
at flat out cruise you've got to apply a significant (30-40lbs) amount
of forward pressure on the stick.
The question I have is this: did you build the angle of incidence into
the spar orientation in the ribs or did you keep the spars at a 90
degree angle to the wing chord?
Also, looking at the Riblett 612, I see that if you keep the front spar
the same distance from the leading edge as the FC1-1, 6 inches, that
dictates that the front spar and the rear spar will not be aligned,
vertically - the front spar must be shifted down an inch or so to fit in
the rib with respect to the aft spar. How did you address this? Did
you even worry about it?
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288909#288909
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence--No, no, TWO DEGREES!!!
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Tim
The 1 inch is correct but if you go 612 use 1/2 inch to get 1 Deg.
Pieti Lowell
My prints show 2 degrees. They also show a 1" length difference between
the front and back cabanes.
[/quote]
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288912#288912
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: logos, coveralls etc.
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Hey Don,
Great minds think alike eh?
I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626" that used
to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He directed me
to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old cotton
coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come in many
colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly have that
thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending me stuff
too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The important
thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens (thanks
Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it embroidered,
but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way overkill.
Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and anybody
else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get something
done before flying season.
Douwe
douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence
Thank you, sir.
I'm just trying to think ahead a bit. If I can keep a true
parallelogram between the front and rear cabanes, rib and top longeron,
then there shouldn't be too much trouble shifting the wing back and
forth to adjust for proper CG location.
Well, I'll be a son-of-a-gun! If you placed the spar at the bottom of
the ribs, and built your cabanes exactly the same height, that would
build in a 1"3/32 difference between the front and rear cabanes, which,
of course, makes an AoI of 2.16 degrees. Furthermore, and this is the
beautiful part, shifting the wing back and forth wouldn't change the
angle of incidence.
Lowell, if you didn't re-adjust your cabane lengths and kept a shorter
one in the back, you might actually have a 4 degree angle of incidence.
Maybe I'm doing my geometry wrong... it's been known to happen.
Ok, enough dithering, hypothesizing, and pontificating. Time to get to
work.
Thanks again,
Dan
On 03/02/2010 08:58 AM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Pieti Lowell"
>
> Dan.
> I tried to build the 612 the same as the FC 10 per the drawings. 90 deg. with
a spacer T88ed to the top of the spar to rib. Harold R. suggested I use a 1 deg
angle of incidence for best performance. I would just make the change in the
cabane height. to achieve the 1 Deg. Keep in mind that my wings are clipped
2 Ft, much like a clipped wing 4412 on an earlier Piet that performed great but
much faster on landing speed. I am sure you will be satisfied with the glide
using the 612, approaches the J3.
> Pieti Lowell
>
> I watched the videos Jeff B. put on Youtube of your talk at Brodhead
> last year. You mentioned that you kept your AoI of 2 degrees from the
> FC-10 and that you'd probably like to see it at 1 degree or less because
> at flat out cruise you've got to apply a significant (30-40lbs) amount
> of forward pressure on the stick.
>
> The question I have is this: did you build the angle of incidence into
> the spar orientation in the ribs or did you keep the spars at a 90
> degree angle to the wing chord?
>
> Also, looking at the Riblett 612, I see that if you keep the front spar
> the same distance from the leading edge as the FC1-1, 6 inches, that
> dictates that the front spar and the rear spar will not be aligned,
> vertically - the front spar must be shifted down an inch or so to fit in
> the rib with respect to the aft spar. How did you address this? Did
> you even worry about it?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: A Piet is a Piet
Saturday was a banner day for Pietenpoling in central AR. There was an EAA
lunch at a far distant (12 miles) airport that I had decided to attend. The
wx was a vicious gale (5-7 kts) but there were no clouds and the temp was
a balmy 49 deg so, with the promise of cheap eats of the high cholesterol v
ariety, off I went.
With the conditions as they were I expected some bumps due to gusts but not
much else as the terrain here is like unto a pancake. Boy, was I in for a
surprise!
About half way to my goal I started feeling little nibbles of lift. Then su
ddenly I noticed the tail rise and my loosely held altitude of 1000' starte
d going up at a rate that I had never before seen in my Piet. I put the nos
e down and brought the mighty Ford back to idle but the climb continued. Si
nce everything else was out of my ability to deal with, I decided to just r
elax and see what was in store for me. Now this was not a head-knocking, co
ntrol fighting struggle to stay upright, rather it was smooth and calm like
an elevator.
3K came and went then 5K. Now, 5K was my all-time highest flight ever and a
s discussed a few months ago, that's the altitude where things get kind of
weird in a Piet. All of a sudden there is a voice in your head that whisper
s, "You don't belong here", and the Piet seems to be too small and too deli
cate to be that high. As all that was bouncing around in my brain I passed
6K then 7. Going through 8 thousand feet things got eerily quiet and I coul
d see the curvature of the earth and stars were appearing in the blackness
that was gathering around me. I think it was real but it could have been be
cause I had my eyes closed for a while. Prayer Donica know.
Well the lift subsided just as gently as it had come and I had a long,long,
long glide to the luncheon airport but it was a crosswind to a paved runway
and I just don't do that so I did a 180 and headed back home. Of course I
took the great circle route around my earlier adventure.
Now my Air Camper is about as stock as any one out there and it has served
me well, even setting the absolute altitude record for Pietenpol aircraft i
n Lonoke County. I've flown it to OSH twice, C37 often, flown with geese an
d egrets and herons, had an unscheduled landing in a bean field, done touch
-and-go's in farm fields all over the fruited plain and never ever felt lik
e I wanted or needed a more powerful engine, different airfoil, pushrods, r
adio, lights or any other thing more or less than what Mr. Pietenpol sugges
ted.
I do have a high performance (read high dollar) head that promised better f
uel economy while delivering higher RPM, power, acceleration, smoother idle
, etc. I don't think the engine or the airframe can tell any difference.
As for adding dimple tape and VG's and other innovations for no apparent pu
rpose, I'll take a pass. My simple, cheap, honest, easy-to-maintain and joy
-to-fly Pietenpol Air Camper fulfills it's role perfectly.
-
Larry=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Steve Ruse <steve(at)wotelectronics.com>
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
Please post something to the list when you get a price and design
worked out, I might be interested.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Quoting Douwe Blumberg :
>
>
> Hey Don,
>
> Great minds think alike eh?
>
> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626" that used
> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He directed me
> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old cotton
> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come in many
> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>
> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly have that
> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending me stuff
> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The important
> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>
> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens (thanks
> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it embroidered,
> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way overkill.
>
> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and anybody
> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get something
> done before flying season.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Larry
I was indeed a beautiful day even in my rental 150 around Batesville/Mtn. View.
Where was the EAA function?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288929#288929
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
On 03/02/2010 10:42 AM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
> in my brain I passed 6K then 7. Going through 8 thousand feet things got
> eerily quiet and I could see the curvature of the earth and stars were
Wave lift in AR? Who knew! Sounds like a grand day.
Here it's sunny, 36 degrees, winds aren't too high at 9mph, and my
exhaust is off and sent out for replacement.... humph.
> I do have a high performance (read high dollar) head that promised
> better fuel economy while delivering higher RPM, power, acceleration,
> smoother idle, etc. I don't think the engine or the airframe can tell
> any difference.
> As for adding dimple tape and VG's and other innovations for no apparent
> purpose, I'll take a pass. My simple, cheap, honest, easy-to-maintain
> and joy-to-fly Pietenpol Air Camper fulfills it's role perfectly.
There are only 2 reasons I'm interested in the dimple tape - better
climb rate and lower fuel consumption. If I can clear the trees/corn
stalks by a bigger margin, that's a winner. If I can save 10% on gas,
well, that's a nice bonus, too.
All this talk about going 24mph faster in a Pietenpol... good grief,
people! What on earth for?!??
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: the vintage coverall project
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Hey guys (...and gals??)
Some people are interested in getting some vintage coveralls with some kind
of cool old logo silkscreened on the back.
Anybody who is interested contact me offlist at douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
Right now I'm thinking that everybody can order their size and color and
have them shipped to me. Then those who want vintage buttons added can have
that done with mine.
My friend will do the silkscreening. The old mobilgas logo I like is only
two colors so that'll only cost $20 each and some more if you want your name
on the front. If you want a different logo than what we all come up with
it'll be more, especially if it's full color and you have to pay for the
screen charge yourself.
I think the coveralls are around $36
Let me know who is interested and I'll get you the details and we'll all
figure out what logo suits us, or if we want to do more than one.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence--No, no, TWO
DEGREES!!!
Thanks, Lowell and Dan. This has uncovered something in my own peculiar case.
I have the BP FC10 airfoil with an added nose, but am still using the original
2 degree (1") difference. Thus with a different airfoil nose, I have a larger
radius at the nose, resulting in a slightly different (higher) chord line,
and will have more AoI than I thought with my application. I'll take a look.
I can still change it if I need to.
However, with an A65, lift and climb are more important to me than speed, so I
am erring on the right side in my mind with more AoI, but I don't need more pitching
moment, etc.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 2, 2010 9:06 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett 612 and angle of incidence--No, no, TWO DEGREES!!!
>
>
>Tim
>The 1 inch is correct but if you go 612 use 1/2 inch to get 1 Deg.
>Pieti Lowell
My prints show 2 degrees. They also show a 1" length difference between
the front and back cabanes.
>[/quote]
>> [b]
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288912#288912
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
>
>
>All this talk about going 24mph faster in a Pietenpol... good grief,
>people! What on earth for?!??
>
So I can finally get the jump on that d@mned Pitts!!!
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
Very nice! Thanks for the essay.
>Saturday was a banner day for Pietenpoling ... perfectly.
>
>Larry
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: economy dimpletape
Shad,
I was just pulling your leg on the drywall mud bit. I think your idea might work
very well, and admire your ability to visualize that connection. For the natural
permanence of the vinyl sign material, that might work better. I have
never seen it, though. In fact, I have never used that particular adhesive dimpled
paper tape with drywall, but have used the plain paper and the adhesive
nylon tape. I love carpentry, but also hate doing drywall.
If the adhesive perforated paper drywall tape works for this, we will have to rename
it "plane paper."
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 2, 2010 8:58 AM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: economy dimpletape
>
>
>Tim, It is just a med-heavy paper adheasive tape, with 1/8 inch holes in it.
They carry it at your local Home Depot, or Lowes. It is not actually dimpled,
it has holes, but it would probably have the same effect. I might try a sign
shop for some vinal tape as Jeff suggested. I'm not expecting a drastic increase
in performance, or economy, just a little. It also just gives us something
to experiment with for some thing to do. The perferated drywall tape, by the
way, is an easy way to get acceptable results on your drywall projects, I can
frame, but I hate drywall, and the sticky back tape makes it a little eaiser.
>
>Shad
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Also interested.
Rick
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Steve Ruse wrote:
>
> Please post something to the list when you get a price and design worked
> out, I might be interested.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
> Quoting Douwe Blumberg :
>
>>
>>
>> Hey Don,
>>
>> Great minds think alike eh?
>>
>> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626" that used
>> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He directed
>> me
>> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old cotton
>> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
>> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come in many
>> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>>
>> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly have that
>> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending me
>> stuff
>> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
>> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The important
>> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>>
>> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens (thanks
>> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
>> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
>> embroidered,
>> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
>> overkill.
>>
>> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and anybody
>> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get something
>> done before flying season.
>>
>> Douwe
>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Lawrence, Thanks for one of the best and enjoyable postings I've read in
a long while. Next time you'd better carry oxygen with ya! Who knows
what a Piet will really do?
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams
To: Pietlist
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Piet is a Piet
Saturday was a banner day for Pietenpoling in central AR. There
was an EAA lunch at a far distant (12 miles) airport that I had decided
to attend. The wx was a vicious gale (5-7 kts) but there were no clouds
and the temp was a balmy 49 deg so, with the promise of cheap eats of
the high cholesterol variety, off I went.
With the conditions as they were I expected some bumps due to
gusts but not much else as the terrain here is like unto a pancake. Boy,
was I in for a surprise!
About half way to my goal I started feeling little nibbles of
lift. Then suddenly I noticed the tail rise and my loosely held altitude
of 1000' started going up at a rate that I had never before seen in my
Piet. I put the nose down and brought the mighty Ford back to idle but
the climb continued. Since everything else was out of my ability to deal
with, I decided to just relax and see what was in store for me. Now this
was not a head-knocking, control fighting struggle to stay upright,
rather it was smooth and calm like an elevator.
3K came and went then 5K. Now, 5K was my all-time highest flight
ever and as discussed a few months ago, that's the altitude where things
get kind of weird in a Piet. All of a sudden there is a voice in your
head that whispers, "You don't belong here", and the Piet seems to be
too small and too delicate to be that high. As all that was bouncing
around in my brain I passed 6K then 7. Going through 8 thousand feet
things got eerily quiet and I could see the curvature of the earth and
stars were appearing in the blackness that was gathering around me. I
think it was real but it could have been because I had my eyes closed
for a while. Prayer Donica know.
Well the lift subsided just as gently as it had come and I had a
long,long,long glide to the luncheon airport but it was a crosswind to a
paved runway and I just don't do that so I did a 180 and headed back
home. Of course I took the great circle route around my earlier
adventure.
Now my Air Camper is about as stock as any one out there and it
has served me well, even setting the absolute altitude record for
Pietenpol aircraft in Lonoke County. I've flown it to OSH twice, C37
often, flown with geese and egrets and herons, had an unscheduled
landing in a bean field, done touch-and-go's in farm fields all over the
fruited plain and never ever felt like I wanted or needed a more
powerful engine, different airfoil, pushrods, radio, lights or any other
thing more or less than what Mr. Pietenpol suggested.
I do have a high performance (read high dollar) head that
promised better fuel economy while delivering higher RPM, power,
acceleration, smoother idle, etc. I don't think the engine or the
airframe can tell any difference.
As for adding dimple tape and VG's and other innovations for no
apparent purpose, I'll take a pass. My simple, cheap, honest,
easy-to-maintain and joy-to-fly Pietenpol Air Camper fulfills it's role
perfectly.
Larry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/02/10 07:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
| Going through 8 thousand feet things got eerily quiet and I could see the
curvature | of the earth and stars were appearing in the blackness that was
gathering around | | me.
Larry, I think you were in the Twilight Zone in your Piet at 8k ft. I lived
at 8k ft. in CO for 11 years and never saw stars during the daylight hours
(except for that big one at the center of the solar system).
Rick
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
Date: Mar 02, 2010
I'm interested,
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> >
>
> Hey Don,
>
> Great minds think alike eh?
>
> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626"
> that used
> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He
> directed me
> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old
> cotton
> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come
> in many
> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>
> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly
> have that
> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending
> me stuff
> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The
> important
> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>
> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens
> (thanks
> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
> embroidered,
> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
> overkill.
>
> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and
> anybody
> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get
> something
> done before flying season.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: Mar 03, 2010
I'm in, too.
Gary Boothe
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:13:29
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
I'm interested,
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> >
>
> Hey Don,
>
> Great minds think alike eh?
>
> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626"
> that used
> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He
> directed me
> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old
> cotton
> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come
> in many
> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>
> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly
> have that
> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending
> me stuff
> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The
> important
> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>
> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens
> (thanks
> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
> embroidered,
> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
> overkill.
>
> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and
> anybody
> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get
> something
> done before flying season.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick N" <horzpool(at)goldengate.net>
Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Hi Greg
A rudder would be fine. Let me know.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "greg menoche" <gnwac(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun
>
> Dick, any chance of a rudder. Greg Menoche here in DE working on ribs.
> It would be a great feeling to know that members at S&F had a part in the
> completion of my one day Piet? Thanks.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dick N
> Sent: Feb 24, 2010 11:48 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sun n Fun
>
>
> I just finished watching the morning news and it looks like you east
> coasters are going to be getting another snow storm. Time to start
> packing up and heading for Lakeland, Fl. for Sun and Fun. I have been
> told that our Wood work Shop will be back in the indoors where it was 2
> years ago. For all who are not familiar, that workshop is kind of the 2nd
> home of Pietenpol after Brodhead. If anybody needs anything built for a
> Pietenpol contact me directly we can do it. Projects on hand for this
> year are a prop for Gardiner Mason and if no other projects come around a
> fuselage for me and maybe a tail section also. These will be for my new
> Sky Scout.
> Dick N.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A Piet is a Piet
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 02, 2010
Larry:
One must breath the exhaust of a Ford to have such a flight, A cure would be, try
looking off to the right in place of the left for the first 20 minutes after
take off.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289009#289009
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
Date: Mar 02, 2010
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
Date: Mar 03, 2010
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________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Han van der voort-gear springs
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
Morning all,
Tried to send the following to Hans, must have a bad email. If anyone
has his email please send it to me. Or, any comments on the note
welcome.
Thanks,
Jack
DSM
Hans,
I hope all is well with you. I'm building a Piet and currently trying
to decide on the size of coil spring to use for the gear. If I'm
correct, from your drawing you utilized a 3224-36 which from what I can
tell can handle a max load of 2593 pounds. Some other plans I've seen
utilize a spring with outside diameter of 1.5 and inside of .75 inches,
with a max load of 1672 pounds. Have you been happy with yours? Do you
think the second example would be too light?
Hans thanks so much!
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: a Piet is a Piet
Ok, Ok. Go get your "grain of salt" pills and re read my epic adventure. Al
so keep the pills handy whenever you see one of my infrequent posts.
-
As for Vne vs. stall speed, it ain't uncommon at all. One of our Canadair R
J's was leveling out at about =0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: a Piet is a Piet
Ah comeon Larry. Give us the rest of the story!
Stinemetze
>>> Lawrence Williams 3/3/2010 8:37 AM >>>
Ok, Ok. Go get your "grain of salt" pills and re read my epic adventure.
Also keep the pills handy whenever you see one of my infrequent posts.
As for Vne vs. stall speed, it ain't uncommon at all. One of our Canadair
RJ's was leveling out at about
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Max, when are you coming over to the Center of the World (also known as
Camden)?
Gene
N502R
=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=03g(=EF
=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDM=EF=BDGq=EF=BDz=EF=BD=EF=BD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/03/10 07:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: a Piet is a Piet
With specific hat tip to Arkansas, Oklahoma, and parts of Texas under
"Favored Areas":
http://www.aviationweather.ws/099_Mountain_Wave_Soaring.php
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: a piet is a piet
Ahem.....as I was saying before the GN-1 censor cut my message off:
-
One of our RJ's was leveling off at about 390 when it was noticed that the
bugs on the speed tape were moving toward eachother and the stall horn soun
ded followed quickly by the stick shaker. They lost a few thousand feet bef
ore recovering and a new operating procedure was established by Bombardier.
It was found that several other customers had similiar experiences.
-
At higher altitudes and higher Mach numbers my Piet airspeed spread between
cruise and stall is about 20-25 kts so I feel pretty immune to that phenom
enon. Something to keep ion mind, though for those of you with more that 50
hp and dimple tape who might explore ever-higher altitude records in the f
uture.
-
I'd like to get some of the coveralls that are being talked about but only
if they are immune to oil drips and won't make us look as gay as the Flitze
r group.
-
Later-
-
Larry
-
-=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: a Piet is a Piet
Date: Mar 03, 2010
I just don't undrstand anyone doubting what a Piet can do.
Gene
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a Piet is a Piet
>
> With specific hat tip to Arkansas, Oklahoma, and parts of Texas under
> "Favored Areas":
>
> http://www.aviationweather.ws/099_Mountain_Wave_Soaring.php
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
The Arrow story is very interesting. I encourage list members to
google it, but only if you have a spare hour or three...
>It would have been interesting to see if the Iroquois engine that
>was designed to go into our Avro Arrow would have needed those
>cones.The Avro Arrow was being tested while the SR-71 was being
>built.Originally the SR-71 was called Archangel and then changed to
>Oxcart.The Avro Arrow was touted as being able to reach speeds of
>mach 5 with two Iroquois engines on board.Never actually proved
>since we were told by the US to destroy this aircraft. I think in my
>own personal opinion because it was the only plane in the world
>capable of catching the Black Bird.The danger was that we would sell
>to the French who would in turn sell to the Russians.I would have
>loved to have seen the two birds flying side by side.It is all
>speculation now as to whether or not our bird could have in fact out
>flown it.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
Date: Mar 03, 2010
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IAkJICA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Max Hegler <maxhegler(at)msn.com>
Subject: Fw: CorvAircraft> Dimpletape on a propeller
Date: Mar 03, 2010
DQpKdXN0IGtpZGRpbmchICAgOykNCg0KRnJvbTogbWF4aGVnbGVyQG1zbi5jb20NClRvOiBwaWV0
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike King" <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Hey Guys,
The Piet logos are very nice and I am sure the talent on this list will
offer a great logo for clothing and the plane alike.
My question is: Since we have both Piet and GN-1 builders and pilots
on this list, would the Piet logo be welcomed on the GN-1? This was
Bernard's design and concept and John Grega came along later with
his revisions to the same concept.
If both parties are in agreement, then I would like to order a coverall
and logo for my GN-1.
Thanks.
Mike King
77Mk
GN-1
Corpus Christi, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
I'm in, too.
Gary Boothe
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:13:29
To:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
I'm interested,
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
>
> Hey Don,
>
> Great minds think alike eh?
>
> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626"
> that used
> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He
> directed me
> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old
> cotton
> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with
hidden
> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come
> in many
> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>
> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly
> have that
> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending
> me stuff
> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being
an
> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The
> important
> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>
> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens
> (thanks
> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and
stay
> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
> embroidered,
> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
> overkill.
>
> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and
> anybody
> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get
> something
> done before flying season.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
We Piet builders will tar and feather any GN-1 driver with a Pietenpol logo.
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Mike King wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
>
> The Piet logos are very nice and I am sure the talent on this list will
>
> offer a great logo for clothing and the plane alike.
>
>
> My question is: Since we have both Piet and GN-1 builders and pilots
>
> on this list, would the Piet logo be welcomed on the GN-1? This was
>
> Bernard's design and concept and John Grega came along later with
>
> his revisions to the same concept.
>
>
> If both parties are in agreement, then I would like to order a coverall
>
> and logo for my GN-1.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike King
>
> 77Mk
>
> GN-1
>
> Corpus Christi, Texas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
>
> I'm in, too.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:13:29
> To:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
>
>
> I'm interested,
> Roman Bukolt NX20795
> On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
>> > >
>>
>> Hey Don,
>>
>> Great minds think alike eh?
>>
>> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626"
>> that used
>> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He
>> directed me
>> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old
>> cotton
>> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
>> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come
>> in many
>> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>>
>> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly
>> have that
>> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending
>> me stuff
>> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
>> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The
>> important
>> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>>
>> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens
>> (thanks
>> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
>> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
>> embroidered,
>> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
>> overkill.
>>
>> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and
>> anybody
>> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get
>> something
>> done before flying season.
>>
>> Douwe
>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _p; generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
Mike,
I admire your desire to be sensitive to other's view of the world.
And before I unload, let me say that I welcome the Piet logo on your
GN-1. I agree with your reasoning: Bernard->Grega->Mike. But...
Heck, Mike Cuy has an EASTERN (who's zoomin' who?) AIRLINES logo on
his Pietenpol. D'ya think Frank Borman gave Mike permission to do
that? Heck NO! Frank Borman only WISHES he was as cool and with it
as Mike Cuy. And by extension, the rest of us on this h'yar list.
Order away!
Jeff
>Hey Guys,
>
>
>The Piet logos are very nice and I am sure the talent on this list will
>
>offer a great logo for clothing and the plane alike.
>
>
>My question is: Since we have both Piet and GN-1 builders and pilots
>
>on this list, would the Piet logo be welcomed on the GN-1? This was
>
>Bernard's design and concept and John Grega came along later with
>
>his revisions to the same concept.
>
>
>If both parties are in agreement, then I would like to order a coverall
>
>and logo for my GN-1.
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>Mike King
>
>77Mk
>
>GN-1
>
>Corpus Christi, Texas
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:gboothe5(at)comcast.net>gboothe5(at)comcast.net
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:10 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
>
>gboothe5(at)comcast.net
>
>I'm in, too.
>
>Gary Boothe
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Roman Bukolt <<mailto:conceptmodels(at)tds.net>conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:13:29
>To: <pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
>
><conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
>
>I'm interested,
>Roman Bukolt NX20795
>On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
>
>><douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>> >
>>
>> Hey Don,
>>
>> Great minds think alike eh?
>>
>> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626"
>> that used
>> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He
>> directed me
>> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old
>> cotton
>> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
>> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come
>> in many
>> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>>
>> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly
>> have that
>> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending
>> me stuff
>> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
>> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The
>> important
>> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>>
>> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens
>> (thanks
>> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
>> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
>> embroidered,
>> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
>> overkill.
>>
>> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and
>> anybody
>> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get
>> something
>> done before flying season.
>>
>> Douwe
>> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>http://www.matnbsp; via the Web
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>_p; generous bsp;
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 03, 2010
Subject: Eastern and United issues
Yes sir, Jeff Boatright is correct in saying that I have an old (modified) Eastern
Airlines logo on the sides of my fuselage but in American Airline colors !!!!!!!!
You should see sometimes I'll get retired AA or EA pilots pointing that out to
me. I usually tell them that I wanted to aggravate both demographics so
I mixed the logo and colors just to accomplish that.
And Jeff, I've got a connection with Frank Borman and he told me it was okay to
use the old Eastern logo. He was a cast member with me in the documentary
"The Restorers" a few years ago.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Small steps reaches small mile stone
It was nice when I made the change, (temporarily) from working with all woo
d to some steel and welding.- Then it became obvious that I need to trans
ition over to some cable work.- Over the past couple days, I have made 6
out of the 8 tail brace cables. I read the swager manual, set up the machin
e and got to it. Very satisfying to be doing some rigging now! Of course it
is all temporary as it will all have to come back apart, but it feels like
I have made it to another small mile stone.- What took the longest for m
e was getting the angle of the steel fittings on the tail bent so the angle
would line up straight with the fork end and cable. The swaging itself is
cake.
-
No big deal to those who have been there, all new and fun for me, so I thou
ght I would share.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: good books
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Okay, so let's take the dimpletape and SR-71
subject lines away and consider books. I can
highly recommend two:
"Yeager- An Autobiography" by Chuck Yeager and
Leo Janos.
"Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years At
Lockheed" by Ben Rich and Leo Janos.
Both are very, very interesting reading for a
pilot or experimenter.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Mike King <mikek120(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: logos, coveralls etc.
Thanks Jeff and others who responded.
I would like to order a set or two (different colors) of the coveralls and a logo
when available.
There is a Piet.....complete with Ford engine and Air Camper logo.... at nearby
Rockport Airport.
It is a beautiful plane and we plan on flying around South Texas and along the
Gulf Coast
beachline soon.
Thanks again guys....
Mike King
77MK
GN-1
Corpus Christi, Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Boatright
Sent: Mar 3, 2010 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
Mike,
I admire your desire to be sensitive to other's view of the world. And before I
unload, let me say that I welcome the Piet logo on your GN-1. I agree with your
reasoning: Bernard->Grega->Mike. But...
Heck, Mike Cuy has an EASTERN (who's zoomin' who?) AIRLINES logo on his Pietenpol.
D'ya think Frank Borman gave Mike permission to do that? Heck NO! Frank
Borman only WISHES he was as cool and with it as Mike Cuy. And by extension, the
rest of us on this h'yar list.
Order away!
Jeff
Hey Guys,
The Piet logos are very nice and I am sure the talent on this list will
offer a great logo for clothing and the plane alike.
My question is: Since we have both Piet and GN-1 builders and pilots
on this list, would the Piet logo be welcomed on the GN-1? This was
Bernard's design and concept and John Grega came along later with
his revisions to the same concept.
If both parties are in agreement, then I would like to order a coverall
and logo for my GN-1.
Thanks.
Mike King
77Mk
GN-1
Corpus Christi, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
I'm in, too.
Gary Boothe
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:13:29
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: logos, coveralls etc.
I'm interested,
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Mar 2, 2010, at 9:04 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> >
>
> Hey Don,
>
> Great minds think alike eh?
>
> I talked to my friend at Old Rhinebeck (owns the beautiful "626"
> that used
> to fly there) since they are really good at the period look. He
> directed me
> to Universal Overall company as the only place he could find old
> cotton
> coveralls. Ck out their site, they have cotton coveralls with hidden
> buttons. I'd have somebody put buttons down the front. They come
> in many
> colors, but White or unbleached probably would look great.
>
> I just got a pretty good old Mobilgas image that would certainly
> have that
> thirties look, and the kind folks from this site have been sending
> me stuff
> too, so we'll see. Let's talk and see what we come up with. Being an
> artist, I can always clean on of these up or make our own. The
> important
> thing to me is to get something that really looks old.
>
> Sounds like we have an offer from a silkscreener to make screens
> (thanks
> Jake!) which is the best printing way to go as it'll outlast and stay
> fresher than a heat transfer. The ultimate would be to have it
> embroidered,
> but I'll have to ck out the price on that, and it probably is way
> overkill.
>
> Don, let me know if you want to order a few coveralls with me, and
> anybody
> else and let's put our heads together about a logo so we can get
> something
> done before flying season.
>
> Douwe
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net
>
>
http://www.matnbsp; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
Un/Subscription,Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: good books
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Here's a good list of aviation books....
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11441&highlight=books
David Paule
Okay, so let's take the dimpletape and SR-71
subject lines away and consider books. I can
highly recommend two:
"Yeager- An Autobiography" by Chuck Yeager and
Leo Janos.
"Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years At
Lockheed" by Ben Rich and Leo Janos.
Both are very, very interesting reading for a
pilot or experimenter.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coveralls and Flitzer group-nice one Larry !
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Who needs a pith helmet when you've got the flying goggles?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289221#289221
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/ap31g6_122.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Subject: Re: good books
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
While on the subject of books, this Lindbergh book is excellent:
http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-St-Louis-Charles-Lindbergh/dp/0743237056/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267723015&sr=8-2
By Lindbergh himself, covers what it was like to fly the mail (yes
they flew at night, middle of winter, with no radios of any kind and
only a couple lanterns for runway lights), through the engineering and
build of the aircraft (they considered detachable gear like the German
Comet rocket plane).
rick
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
>
>
> Okay, so let's take the dimpletape and SR-71
> subject lines away and consider books. I can
> highly recommend two:
>
> "Yeager- An Autobiography" by Chuck Yeager and
> Leo Janos.
>
> "Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years At
> Lockheed" by Ben Rich and Leo Janos.
>
> Both are very, very interesting reading for a
> pilot or experimenter.
>
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Subject: Re: Small steps reaches small mile stone
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
I agree Mike, I really like learning how to work with the different
materials. Have spent as much time on metal welding/grinding as I have on
wood cutting/sanding/gluing. Soon you will get to learn sheet metal/aluminum
cutting/bending/riveting for your fuel tank and cowling (and maybe some
composite). And building an engine is a great learning experience too,
especially when it runs and doesn't leak anything (yet).
rick
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Michael Perez wrote:
> It was nice when I made the change, (temporarily) from working with all
> wood to some steel and welding. Then it became obvious that I need to
> transition over to some cable work. Over the past couple days, I have made
> 6 out of the 8 tail brace cables. I read the swager manual, set up the
> machine and got to it. Very satisfying to be doing some rigging now! Of
> course it is all temporary as it will all have to come back apart, but it
> feels like I have made it to another small mile stone. What took the
> longest for me was getting the angle of the steel fittings on the tail bent
> so the angle would line up straight with the fork end and cable. The swaging
> itself is cake.
>
> No big deal to those who have been there, all new and fun for me, so I
> thought I would share.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey(at)bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: good books
Date: Mar 04, 2010
I'm always amazed (after all, our love is reported to be low and slow flight
in an open cockpit) that more aren't reading about low and slow flight in
open cockpits. I love early aviation and the men & women that pioneered the
way for us. Rescue flights in -40 below zero weather, between Alaska and
Russia in open cockpit airplanes. Flying into areas where there were no
maps or knowledge of what to expect. Crashes that pilots walked away from,
only to have to walk hundreds of miles to get help. Others rebuilt their
planes and props to fly them out to safety. I also love to read about Bush
Pilots and their adventures. So much history.
Just a few of the really good books.
In The Shadow Of Eagles by Rudy Billberg (I have two of these, so if
anyone wants to read it, I will send it to you, then you must send it on to
someone else.)
Heroes Of the Horizon by Gerry Bruder
The Last Of The Bush Pilots by Harmon Helmericks
Frank Barr, Bush Pilot in Alaska and the Yukon by Dermot Cole
Mercy Pilot, The Joe Crosson Story by Dirk Tordoff
MudHole Smith, Alaska Flier by Lone E. Janson (I use to work for
MudHole in the early 60's. He was a real true Alaskan pioneer bushpilot)
North Star Over My Shoulder By Bob Buck
Bush Pilots, Legends of the Old & Bold By Bob Cary & Jack Hautala
Wager With The Wind, the Don Sheldon Story by James Greiner
Glacier Pilot, the Story of Bob Reeve and the Flyers who pushed back Alaska
Air Frontiers by Beth Day Romulo
Wings Over Alaska, The Story of Carl Ben Eielson By Edward A. Herron.
If you like true war stories then I recommend the following about FAC
(Forward air controllers)(low and slow) Pilots in Vietnam.
A Lonely Kind of War by Marshall Harrison
Vietnam Above the TreeTops by John F. Flanagan
Gene in sunny beautiful Tennessee
N502R
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: good books
>
> Here's a good list of aviation books....
>
> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11441&highlight=books
>
> David Paule
>
>
> Okay, so let's take the dimpletape and SR-71
> subject lines away and consider books. I can
> highly recommend two:
>
> "Yeager- An Autobiography" by Chuck Yeager and
> Leo Janos.
>
> "Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years At
> Lockheed" by Ben Rich and Leo Janos.
>
> Both are very, very interesting reading for a
> pilot or experimenter.
>
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: e-mail question
It's OK Tom, I'm really not that good at it and most people don't listen to
me anyway.
-
But, as you see, your latest email came through as well.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: good books
Here's a short story by one of our ranks that I thoroughly enjoyed. You
might, too:
http://aviationstories-robbach.blogspot.com/2009/05/5339-by-rob-bach.html
Cheers,
Dan
On 03/04/2010 11:36 AM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
>
>
> I'm always amazed (after all, our love is reported to be low and slow
> flight in an open cockpit) that more aren't reading about low and slow
> flight in open cockpits. I love early aviation and the men & women that
> pioneered the way for us. Rescue flights in -40 below zero weather,
> between Alaska and Russia in open cockpit airplanes. Flying into areas
> where there were no maps or knowledge of what to expect. Crashes that
> pilots walked away from, only to have to walk hundreds of miles to get
> help. Others rebuilt their planes and props to fly them out to safety. I
> also love to read about Bush Pilots and their adventures. So much history.
> Just a few of the really good books.
>
> In The Shadow Of Eagles by Rudy Billberg (I have two of these, so if
> anyone wants to read it, I will send it to you, then you must send it on
> to someone else.)
> Heroes Of the Horizon by Gerry Bruder
> The Last Of The Bush Pilots by Harmon Helmericks
> Frank Barr, Bush Pilot in Alaska and the Yukon by Dermot Cole
> Mercy Pilot, The Joe Crosson Story by Dirk Tordoff
> MudHole Smith, Alaska Flier by Lone E. Janson (I use to work for MudHole
> in the early 60's. He was a real true Alaskan pioneer bushpilot)
> North Star Over My Shoulder By Bob Buck
> Bush Pilots, Legends of the Old & Bold By Bob Cary & Jack Hautala
> Wager With The Wind, the Don Sheldon Story by James Greiner
> Glacier Pilot, the Story of Bob Reeve and the Flyers who pushed back
> Alaska Air Frontiers by Beth Day Romulo
> Wings Over Alaska, The Story of Carl Ben Eielson By Edward A. Herron.
> If you like true war stories then I recommend the following about FAC
> (Forward air controllers)(low and slow) Pilots in Vietnam.
> A Lonely Kind of War by Marshall Harrison
> Vietnam Above the TreeTops by John F. Flanagan
>
> Gene in sunny beautiful Tennessee
> N502R
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 9:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: good books
>
>
>>
>> Here's a good list of aviation books....
>>
>> http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=11441&highlight=books
>>
>>
>> David Paule
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Okay, so let's take the dimpletape and SR-71
>> subject lines away and consider books. I can
>> highly recommend two:
>>
>> "Yeager- An Autobiography" by Chuck Yeager and
>> Leo Janos.
>>
>> "Skunk Works: A Personal Memoir of My Years At
>> Lockheed" by Ben Rich and Leo Janos.
>>
>> Both are very, very interesting reading for a
>> pilot or experimenter.
>>
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 19:34:00
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Subject: e-mail question
Same here Mike. I rec'd Tom's e-mail but didn't catch much wit or wisdom.
Tom, you just give us a warning when
that is coming so we can keep an eye out for it.
Very much kidding and in good fun.
Mike C.
Hmmm...I wonder if Amazon sells pith helmets ?
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Top vert.cable fitting.
As we know the brace cables for the vert. stab. come together at the top to
one fitting attached to the trailing edge. It appears that I have some twi
st on the vert. stab. if I grab the leading edge of it and push/pull side t
o side. Any harm in relocating the forward-two cables to the leading edge
?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Top vert.cable fitting.
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
You mean like this:
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/tail01.jpg
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289251#289251
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gear Springs
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor(at)thepalmergroup.com>
After talking with Hans, I've decided the springs to order are the same
as he used, Die Max 9-3224-36. AC Spruce has a pair for $90. H & O Die
Supply (800-222-5441) sells them for $67.00 a pair.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Subject: vertical stabilizer fitting location
Mike,
I would leave your vertical tail fitting/ cable location right where the pl
ans show it and not worry about the twist until you have allowed
for change of season/ spring/ summer humidity to come to Ohio, then until a
fter you varnish and cover with fabric unless the twist is
really noticeable in which case I would simply build a new one.
You will be able to take twist out during the fabric taughtening process to
by playing the iron over one side at a higher temp than the other
as you go thru the three increasing iron temperature stages for the Dacron
tightening.
Those cables stabilize the hinge line right at the top hinge so when you bo
ot the rudder that back edge of your vertical stab is held
very firmly. If you grab your stab by the LE when you boot the rudder you'
ll have the "guy wires" ahead of the place where all the
rudder force is being transferred to the stab.
Lastly, if you look at the brace wires/ rods on Piper Cubs or Aeronca Cham
ps, Aeronca Sedans, Taylorcrafts, Porterfields, Ryan PT's,
Fairchilds.......every one of them uses the hinge line edge of the vertical
stab to secure the wires.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: good books
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
A few favorites of mine would be Nothing by Chance & Biplane by Richard Bach.
If you haven't read Nothing by Chance, it was a barnstorming story that took place
in southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois, and no, Bach did not fly into
Brodhead. Go figure. Flight of Passage by Rinker Buck is another one that
is really a hoot to read. Lastly, Budd Davisson's 2 books, The Stonewall File,
and Cobalt Blue will definitely keep you up at night.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289258#289258
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Top vert.cable fitting.
Yes, like that!-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: vertical stabilizer fitting location
I'm not sure we are on the same page Mike.- My Vert. stab. is not twisted
.- What I am saying is that now that I have it all bolted to the fuse and
have my newly made brace cables in place, everything seems solid...except
for when I grab the leading edge of the vert. and push sideways on it, then
it flexes/twists.- I am not going to move that top cable fitting, only t
he front cables off of that fitting-over to a fitting on the leading edge
.- Oscar sent a link to a picture of exactly what I am talking about. (bu
t with cables)- This will negate the twist. But I am curious if it is NOT
a good idea for a reason I am not seeing.-
-
I would think this would stabilize the tail better and may cut/eliminate th
e "flopping around" you guys see when you look back there in flight.
Thanks Mike.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: good books
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
How about " West with the Night" Beryl Markham , A great pilot with many records
IE. First to woman to cross the Atlantic solo, East to West, and incredible
flying in Africa. She also has an autobiography, She was also referred to in the
movie" Out of Africa".
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289268#289268
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Good books
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Guys,
There is a really good story, of a local nature, that I was totally oblivi
ous to until a few years back. There was a man, from Rockford IL., "Fish"
Hassel was his name. He was hired by Glenn Curtis as a car mechanic. He
went on to get his pilot's licence and was a real charactor, barnstorming
and booze-running to Canada during prohibition in the subsequent years.
He wrote a book about his life entitled "A Viking With Wings". He wanted
to establish the viability of a great-circle air route to Scandinavia in
1927. Here is an excerpt that summarizes this:
The people of Rockford, Illinois became interested and decided to back
his scheme. A Stinson Detroiter monoplane was obtained and planning of th
e flight began. As his co-pilot and navigator, Hassell selected Parker "Sh
orty" Cramer, and together they began making test flights in the vicinity
of Rockford. (This was actually the old Mechesney Park Airport) They set
the date for the take-off as July 26, 1928. When the appointed time arriv
ed, they took off with the crowd cheering. But the fuel load proved too he
avy and they wound up in a corn field west of the river. (Rock River)
After repairing the plane, they again took off on August 16, 1928 and
headed for their first scheduled refueling stop, a base on the Sondre Str
omfjord in south-west Greenland. After twenty hours in the air, they faile
d to find the base and were forced to make an emergency landing. The two
adventurers set out to walk to the base. Fourteen days later, they encoun
tered a group of Eskimos who brought them into the camp, just as they were
about to be given up for lost.
From the base, they worked their way to Holstenborg, on the coast whe
re they got passage on a tramp steamer to Europe. From there, they made th
eir way back to the United States and Rockford.
Hassel went on to serve in WWII, establishing the all-important air base
in Goose Bay, Greenland.
The aircraft that was abandoned on the glacier in 1928, was eventually rec
overed, flown back to Rockford IL. in a DC-3, restored, and is on display
at the Midway Village Museum here in Rockford, IL.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike" <papa.bike.mike(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Good books
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Oh, for the days of wooden airplanes and iron men.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 4:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Good books
Hi Guys,
There is a really good story, of a local nature, that I was totally
oblivious to until a few years back. There was a man, from Rockford IL.,
"Fish" Hassel was his name. He was hired by Glenn Curtis as a car mechanic.
He went on to get his pilot's licence and was a real charactor, barnstorming
and booze-running to Canada during prohibition in the subsequent years. He
wrote a book about his life entitled "A Viking With Wings". He wanted to
establish the viability of a great-circle air route to Scandinavia in 1927.
Here is an excerpt that summarizes this:
The people of Rockford, Illinois became interested and decided to back his
scheme. A Stinson Detroiter monoplane was obtained and planning of the
flight began. As his co-pilot and navigator, Hassell selected
<http://earlyaviators.com/ecramer.htm> Parker "Shorty" Cramer, and together
they began making test flights in the vicinity of Rockford. (This was
actually the old Mechesney Park Airport) They set the date for the take-off
as July 26, 1928. When the appointed time arrived, they took off with the
crowd cheering. But the fuel load proved too heavy and they wound up in a
corn field west of the river. (Rock River)
After repairing the plane, they again took off on August 16, 1928 and
headed for their first scheduled refueling stop, a base on the Sondre
Stromfjord in south-west Greenland. After twenty hours in the air, they
failed to find the base and were forced to make an emergency landing. The
two adventurers set out to walk to the base. Fourteen days later, they
encountered a group of Eskimos who brought them into the camp, just as they
were about to be given up for lost.
From the base, they worked their way to Holstenborg, on the coast where
they got passage on a tramp steamer to Europe. From there, they made their
way back to the United States and Rockford.
Hassel went on to serve in WWII, establishing the all-important air base in
Goose Bay, Greenland.
The aircraft that was abandoned on the glacier in 1928, was eventually
recovered, flown back to Rockford IL. in a DC-3, restored, and is on display
at the Midway Village Museum here in Rockford, IL.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: good books
You beat me to it. That IS a good book.
>
>How about " West with the Night" Beryl Markham , A great pilot with
>many records IE. First to woman to cross the Atlantic solo, East to
>West, and incredible flying in Africa. She also has an
>autobiography, She was also referred to in the movie" Out of Africa".
>Pieti Lowell
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Paule" <dpaule(at)frii.com>
Subject: Re: good books
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Another good one is "Record Flights" by Chamberlin.
Also "Building Aeroplanes for The Magnificent Men and Their Flying Machines"
by Wheeler.
David Paule
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: good books
>
> You beat me to it. That IS a good book.
>
>>
>>
>>How about " West with the Night" Beryl Markham , A great pilot with many
>>records IE. First to woman to cross the Atlantic solo, East to West, and
>>incredible flying in Africa. She also has an autobiography, She was also
>>referred to in the movie" Out of Africa".
>>Pieti Lowell
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Just Hello
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Mar 04, 2010
HI Matt,
Welcome to the list, and Pietenpol country.
If you know where Crawdaddy Landing , ( 3KY4 ) is, Douwe Blumberg will have a FIRST
flight with his newly completed Ford powered Piet around the end of this
month, keep informed You are not far from Carrollton Ky,
His Pietenpol is a work of art from my point of view, and has some neet new innovations.
Pieti Lowell
]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289287#289287
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: e-mail question
Date: Mar 04, 2010
Your local beekeeper supply probably does.
Poor Mike. Shot down in flames! :-)
I feel for you buddy. You should arrive at Broadhead
with one of these. That'll fix em!
http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/machine-gun.htm
Mike C.
Hmmm.I wonder if Amazon sells pith helmets ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/04/10 11:34:00
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Subject: vertical stab flexible at front end
Mike,
You write: "now that I have it all bolted to the
>fuse and have my newly made brace cables in place, everything seems
>solid...except for when I grab the leading edge of the vert. and push
>sideways on it, then it flexes/twists."
Mike-- simple solution. Don't push on it. Not trying to be smart but
seriously, many parts of the plane flex and are meant to like wings on an
airliner flex way up under flight loads and move around in turbulence.
The photo Oscar shows is fully acceptable but isn't the norm and might be a GN-1
tail from the looks of the wide gaps and eye bolt hinge types (as found on GN-1's)
Much of the structure will tighten up greatly after fabric and paint have been
applied
too. Also if you go with the two-fitting location on the vertical fin you'll have
two
fittings more, two more bolts, nuts and washers that you don't need as well.
Just
my thoughts. Either installation is totally acceptable though. I simply wouldn't
worry the flex. Hundreds of Piets are flying with the single, rearward attach
point
to the fin with no problems.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: vertical stab flexible at front end
I wondered about how the fabric would help. Since I have not done any fabri
c work, I just didn't know.- You know me...I save weight every place I ca
n and I did think about the added brackets, bolts, nuts, etc.!
-
"Mike-- simple solution.- Don't push on it."- I laughed when I read thi
s...sounds like something I would say.--
-
I guess since I already have my cables all made and I would need to buy mor
e terminal ends and make new shorter cables if I moved the front ones, I'll
leave it.- I may add the spacer/plywood in the location of where that fr
ont fitting would go, then after-covering and flying,-if I wanted to ch
ange the cables, I would just need to drill the holes and make the fittings
.
-
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Howard Henderson's Piet
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Mike King wrote-
>There is a Piet.....complete with Ford engine
>and Air Camper logo.... at nearby Rockport Airport.
>It is a beautiful plane and we plan on flying
>around South Texas and along the Gulf Coast
>beachline soon.
Yes, that is Ron Hollmer's Ford A-powered Piet,
also known as Howard Henderson's Piet since he
built it. N444MH. Some excellent pix of the
airplane at www.westcoastpiet.com (of course).
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: good books
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Not to get nit-picky (well, maybe I am) but, the the air base in Goose Bay is actually
in Labrador, not Greenland.
Now, since I retrieved this bit of information about Labrador, does that make me
an "information about Labrador retriever"?
Dan wrote:
Hassel went on to serve in WWII, establishing the all-important air base in Goose
Bay, Greenland.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289311#289311
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Subject: Re: good books
I would suggest that you seek out some of the little books written by local aviators.
For example Jimmy Hays was an Oklahoma Farmer who wrote a small Magazine sized
book about his experiences. He helped establish the flying farmers organization
and was very active in various organizations. He was in early air races with
Jimmy Dolittle and others of similar fame. His book is a great read. One of my
favorite stories is his prop coming to pieces during an air race. He put the
plane in a field, pulled the prop and got a ride to the finish line, arriving
with the prop on his shoulder. Jimmy Dolittle beat him that time.
These books are often hard to find. Besides who knows what is out there. But they
often have great stories.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010 8:11
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: good books
>
> Not to get nit-picky (well, maybe I am) but, the the air base in Goose Bay is
actually in Labrador, not Greenland.
>
> Now, since I retrieved this bit of information about Labrador, does that make
me an "information about Labrador retriever"?
>
> Dan wrote:
>
> Hassel went on to serve in WWII, establishing the all-important air base in Goose
Bay, Greenland.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289311#289311
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coveralls and Flitzer group-nice one Larry !
From: "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Gee... nobody picked up on the fact that the photo I posted was of Irene Englund,
a Texan who was a WASP in WWII, flew the B-24, and was still flying in her
80s...
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ikenglund.htm
Wooden airplanes, iron men... and women with wings!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289324#289324
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Just Hello
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Is that Big Jim's Piet by any chance?
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289338#289338
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Construction Photos
From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Hi - I haven't been able to get ahold of the (sainted) west coast piet webmaster
to post construction photos of NX899KP. The Girl taught me how to post photos
on a google blog. Here's the link:
http://nx899kp.blogspot.com/
I'll continue to add pictures as I can. If I have any notes I put them as comments.
Best regards,
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289353#289353
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Just Hello
From: "VanDy" <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
Pieti that sounds great! I'm super busy right now with trying to buy a house and
all, i think all the signing im having to do is giving me carpel tunnel!
Don,
Yep it sure, is. Big Jim, known as Grandpa to me lol. I'm getting a house
with a barn just big enough to rebuild it in, and it definetly needs the attention,
so once the house is settled into i plan on starting into it pretty quick!
Right now I am living in Cincinnati ohio, and moving to Troy, Ohio (Old Waco Factory
area) first of next month if all goes well.
And i can not wait to get started!
Hoping the weather holds out for Tuesday so I can get the ole TCraft out and knock
the cobwebs off!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289357#289357
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Coveralls and Flitzer group-nice one Larry !
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
It always amazes me to read the life story of incredible people like this, and
saddened to see them pass. Thanks Oscar for the info.
Lorin Miller
fyi - watched a good "bogie and bacall" movie last night from 1944 (To Have and
Have Not). That, was acting.
taildrags wrote:
> Gee... nobody picked up on the fact that the photo I posted was of Irene Englund,
a Texan who was a WASP in WWII, flew the B-24, and was still flying in her
80s...
>
> http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ikenglund.htm
>
> Wooden airplanes, iron men... and women with wings!
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
Pietenpol next up
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289363#289363
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First Major Milestone
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 05, 2010
I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good about
it. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the aileron.
Today was one of the first really nice days we have had in a long time, so I took
my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could look it over in
the sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to install control pulleys
and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found that there
is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that is pretty
good.
I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the right
wing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to starting assembly
on the let panel.
Here are a few photos.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Major Milestone
Date: Mar 06, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Mark,
Anytime you are proud of your work, and need to stand back and look, it's
a milestone. Very nice work. It must be great to get it out into the ligh
t.
Keep plugging!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 5, 2010 10:41 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good
about
t. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the aileron.
oday was one of the first really nice days we have had in a long time, so
I
ook my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could look it over
in
he sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to install control
ulleys and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found th
at
here is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that is
retty good.
I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the
right
ing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to starting
ssembly on the let panel.
Here are a few photos.
--------
ark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
ttachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Construction Photos
Date: Mar 06, 2010
Great shots and comments Kevin, thank you!
Jack
DSM
Hi - I haven't been able to get ahold of the (sainted) west coast piet
webmaster to post construction photos of NX899KP. The Girl taught me how to
post photos on a google blog. Here's the link:
http://nx899kp.blogspot.com/
I'll continue to add pictures as I can. If I have any notes I put them as
comments.
Best regards,
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Austin/Georgetown
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289353#289353
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: First Major Milestone
It IS a milestone....you SHOULD feel pretty good about it....wow, this is great!
I got to spend the nice weather yesterday spreading gravel on my (800'+) driveway
and trying to get a 1951 tractor running (no spark...still!).
Looks like YOU had a LOT more fun!!!
Nice work Mark!
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Mar 5, 2010 10:41 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
>
>
>I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good about
it. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the aileron.
Today was one of the first really nice days we have had in a long time, so I
took my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could look it over in
the sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to install control pulleys
and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
>
>We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found that there
is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that is pretty
good.
>
>I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the right
wing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to starting assembly
on the let panel.
>
>Here are a few photos.
>
>--------
>Mark - working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: First Major Milestone
Date: Mar 06, 2010
Nice pics, Mark, thanks! I am still a big fan of your wing building jig.
That'll work great for me and my cramped work area. How about posting some
more in-process pics?
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
18 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 8:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good
about it. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the
aileron. Today was one of the first really nice days we have had in a long
time, so I took my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could
look it over in the sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to
install control pulleys and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found that
there is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that is
pretty good.
I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the
right wing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to
starting assembly on the let panel.
Here are a few photos.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: First Major Milestone
Mark,
Thanks for the pix. It all looks great.
If you have them, I would like some more details, please. I'd like to see pix--
both a side view and a top view of the wing tip bow and the curved aileron tip,
and how they line up and look together. Perhaps your build is not quite there
yet-- the tips.
In any event, I continue to have trouble visualizing exactly how that goes together.
I should have taken a stepladder and a closeup lens to Brodhead in 2006
or 2008.
Thanks, Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Mar 5, 2010 10:41 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Major Milestone
>
>
>I'm not sure if this is actually a milestone, but I'm feeling pretty good about
it. I took my left wing panel off the jig today and trial fit the aileron.
Today was one of the first really nice days we have had in a long time, so I
took my wing panel outside and set it on saw horses so I could look it over in
the sun light. It all looks good so far. I still need to install control pulleys
and LE sheeting, but the framework is complete.
>
>We measured the dimensions (front to rear spar - tip to root) and found that there
is less than 1/8" difference in the measurements. I was told that is pretty
good.
>
>I also wanted to check my jig with the water level before to starting the right
wing panel... it hasn't moved since we locked it down, prior to starting assembly
on the let panel.
>
>Here are a few photos.
>
>--------
>Mark - working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289365#289365
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050408_768x576_159.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050410_768x576_118.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050412_768x576_128.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050413_768x576_133.jpg
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3050415_768x576_123.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Major Milestone
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: Mar 06, 2010
Thanks for the nice comments fellas. For those that want to see most of my build
photos... you can go to my logbook site (posted below in my signature). I've
tried to keep it current and relevant to the project, but there are a few "shop"
entries that pertain to equipment and such.
For those that may not be familiar with mykitlog.com, just click on the link below
and when you get to my main page click the ALL link on the right side menu.
That will display all of my entries since I've started my project and you can
quickly browse for titles and which ones have photos. I do have larger photos
available for anyone that is interested in specific details. Perhaps Chris
would let me post some of my photos on West Coast Piet? Maybe I'll shoot him
a note tonight.
Gary, I got the idea for the vertical wing jig from Tony Bingelis' "Sportplane
Construction Techniques" (pg. 57). It was super easy to build, and if you have
a solid work bench to clamp them to (see my photo above), you won't have to
anchor them to the ceiling. I used a water level and shims to get mine leveled
up and it is working great. Even if space isn't an issue, I think the vertical
configuration allows better access to the entire wing panel. I could be wrong...
won't know until I try the other methods.
Time to make sawdust!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289379#289379
________________________________________________________________________________
From: William Colleran <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wood
Date: Mar 06, 2010
I just ordered my plans for my pietenpol. Who do most of you order
your wood from?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wood
Date: Mar 06, 2010
I got most of mine from Wicks Aircraft Supply http://www.wicksaircraft.com/
, and some from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Colleran
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 1:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood
I just ordered my plans for my pietenpol. Who do most of you order
your wood from?