Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jf

May 18, 2010 - June 07, 2010



      Laurits M Larsen
      29248 David Ct
      Tavares, Fl
      (352) 343-2621
      
      Cheers,
      Dan
      
      
      On 05/18/2010 06:20 PM, Lawrence Williams wrote:
      > I've lost track of a man that I visited a number of years ago in his
      > shop. As near as I remember it was about 2000-2002.
      > His name is Lou Larson and he lived in Tavares, FL.
      >
      > He had an "A" and was getting ready to cover when I visited him. Anyone
      > know Lou???
      >
      > Larry W.
      >
      >
      > '
      >
      > *
      >
      >
      > *
      
      -- 
      Dan Yocum
      Fermilab  630.840.6509
      yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
      "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: prop for 0200
Date: May 18, 2010
If anyone has real world experience with an 0200 in a Piet, I'd appreciate any prop suggestions. I know of two flying with Cessna 150 props, mostly because it was easier to get insurance using the prop the engine was certified for. And I know of one that flew a while ago using a 76X34. Thanks Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
Date: May 18, 2010
Moving the capstrip 1 inch won't be a problem. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: horiz stab capstrip question > > Ok guys I made my gussets on my horizontal stab too big! yes there is > such a thing. Now my capstrip placement is off. If I place the capstrip > where it belongs as evenly placed I go right over my capstrip. I have > attached a picture. I am thinking about just moving the capstrip > placement 1" to it's planned placement. What are your thoughts? Little > embarrassed I didn't lay it all out, but I guess that is what learning is > for! > > Thanks, > > Bill > N424BK > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298128#298128 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0502_166.jpg > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
Thats one of those things that happen and nobody knows but you, except now you told us... Ben Charvet > > >> >> >> Ok guys I made my gussets on my horizontal stab too big! yes there >> is such a thing. Now my capstrip placement is off. If I place the >> capstrip where it belongs as evenly placed I go right over my >> capstrip. I have attached a picture. I am thinking about just >> moving the capstrip placement 1" to it's planned placement. What are >> your thoughts? Little embarrassed I didn't lay it all out, but I >> guess that is what learning is for! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bill >> N424BK >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298128#298128 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0502_166.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 18, 2010
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Bill, don't tell anybody but one of the capstrips in my vertical fin is an inch below the capstrip in my rudder where they are supposed to be aligned. rick On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Ben Charvet wrote: > > Thats one of those things that happen and nobody knows but you, except now > you told us... > > Ben Charvet > > >> >>> > >>> >>> Ok guys I made my gussets on my horizontal stab too big! yes there is >>> such a thing. Now my capstrip placement is off. If I place the capstrip >>> where it belongs as evenly placed I go right over my capstrip. I have >>> attached a picture. I am thinking about just moving the capstrip placement >>> 1" to it's planned placement. What are your thoughts? Little embarrassed I >>> didn't lay it all out, but I guess that is what learning is for! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Bill >>> N424BK >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298128#298128 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Attachments: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0502_166.jpg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 2010
From: Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
Just move the capstrip/rib. Once covered it will never be seen and never cause a problem. Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol on wheels Tail surfaces done Wing ribs done Corvair engine On May 18, 2010, bcolleran wrote: Ok guys I made my gussets on my horizontal stab too big! yes there is such a thing. Now my capstrip placement is off. If I place the capstrip where it belongs as evenly placed I go right over my capstrip. I have attached a picture. I am thinking about just moving the capstrip placement 1" to it's planned placement. What are your thoughts? Little embarrassed I didn't lay it all out, but I guess that is what learning is for! Thanks, Bill N424BK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298128#298128 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0502_166.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Off-topic welding question (Bronze)
From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 2010
Can anyone with experience welding bronze (fairly thick) drop me an email off line. Its not for my Piet, but close. Thanks, Steve chase143(at)aol.com -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298176#298176 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Off-topic welding question (Bronze)
Date: May 19, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
I think Douwe Blumberg is an expert in this area. He makes bronze sculptur es. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: chase143(at)aol.com <chase143(at)aol.com> Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 9:42 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Off-topic welding question (Bronze) com> Can anyone with experience welding bronze (fairly thick) drop me an email off ine. Its not for my Piet, but close. Thanks, teve hase143(at)aol.com -------- teve ww.mypiet.com ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298176#298176 ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 19, 2010
Bill, It wouldn't be too hard to trim off the ends of the gussets with a small back saw, then shave back to the cut. Tom On May 18, 2010, at 9:20 PM, bcolleran wrote: > > Ok guys I made my gussets on my horizontal stab too big! yes there is such a thing. Now my capstrip placement is off. If I place the capstrip where it belongs as evenly placed I go right over my capstrip. I have attached a picture. I am thinking about just moving the capstrip placement 1" to it's planned placement. What are your thoughts? Little embarrassed I didn't lay it all out, but I guess that is what learning is for! > > Thanks, > > Bill > N424BK > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298128#298128 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0502_166.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: plans
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: May 20, 2010
Welcome to the forum. You are in for a fun time. I am also building. My wing is almost ready for varnish. Enjoy the build. You will have questions. They can be answered here. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298269#298269 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: plans
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
Thanks Jerry, I'm excited to get started. This list is part of what pushed me over the edge to get started. Lots of good information here. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298271#298271 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: plans
Welcome to the show Mike! You'll find building this plane a great experienc e. I am building as well. Love it! - www.karetakeraero.com - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: plans
Totally agree and I would add that you've come upon a most unique and special group here..... Stick with it and you're in for a real treat. Jim in stormy Oklahoma... -----Original Message----- From: Michael Perez Sent: May 20, 2010 7:57 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans Welcome to the show Mike! You'll find building this plane a great experience. I am building as well. Love it! www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 20, 2010
Bill, Just a tip for future reference, as you progress with your project. The plans don't really provide many dimensions for gussets, but it may be helpful to know that the "extra" gusset material really doesn't do anything for you, other than add weight. When determining the size of a gusset like the one pictured, there's no need to go past the edges of the pieces being joined. See the red lines in the attached picture for reference. But, like others have said, in this case, just shift your capstrip over to the edge of your gusset. If you're very careful, you COULD trim away the excess gusset, but there's a very real risk of cutting into the Spruce sticks, and THAT would be a bad idea. Bill C. (not you... a Different Bill C.) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298299#298299 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gusset_size_195.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: plans
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
Thanks to everyone. I would definitely like to come to Brodhead, but I'm not sure my finances can stand it this year. I have been doing A&P school for the last year and a half, and my wife is getting a little anxious about supporting us both now I'm out of school. I do have a Hajjimobile to make the Hajj to various Mecca locations, so I'm not ruling it out this year, yet. I also fly ultralight gliders at The Point of the Mountain in Utah, which is known worldwide as a Mecca for hang glider and paraglider pilots, which is why the Hajjimobile has its name. I've been lurking the list for several months now, and have figured out that being Markle-esque is sometimes necessary when you are associated with Pitenpol folks. [Laughing] [Rolling Eyes] -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298326#298326 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: plans
From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
Mike, Welcome aboard, you are in for a great journey building a Piet. Brodhead is a good time and a great first hand education. If you can swing it; one trip there and you will say "I can't afford not to go"! Enjoy the building! Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298332#298332 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
----- Original Message ---- From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Thu, May 20, 2010 10:53:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: horiz stab capstrip question Bill, Just a tip for future reference, as you progress with your project. The plans don't really provide many dimensions for gussets, but it may be helpful to know that the "extra" gusset material really doesn't do anything for you, other than add weight. When determining the size of a gusset like the one pictured, there's no need to go past the edges of the pieces being joined. See the red lines in the attached picture for reference. But, like others have said, in this case, just shift your capstrip over to the edge of your gusset. If you're very careful, you COULD trim away the excess gusset, but there's a very real risk of cutting into the Spruce sticks, and THAT would be a bad idea. Bill C. (not you... a Different Bill C.) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298299#298299 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gusset_size_195.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: plans
You and I have a LOT in common! I love gliders/sailplanes and you have obviously done a lot of soaring in hang gliders. There is at least one paraglider on this list that just might be soaring the north shore (Hiwaii) as I type this.... There are several Pietenpols/Projects in the SLC area. Very nice people you'll want to get together with. Something we DON'T have in common is your piano playing...but that IS something I would definitely like to hear more about! :-) jm -----Original Message----- >From: GliderMike <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: May 20, 2010 10:52 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plans > > >Thanks to everyone. I would definitely like to come to Brodhead, but I'm not sure my finances can stand it this year. I have been doing A&P school for the last year and a half, and my wife is getting a little anxious about supporting us both now I'm out of school. I do have a Hajjimobile to make the Hajj to various Mecca locations, so I'm not ruling it out this year, yet. I also fly ultralight gliders at The Point of the Mountain in Utah, which is known worldwide as a Mecca for hang glider and paraglider pilots, which is why the Hajjimobile has its name. I've been lurking the list for several months now, and have figured out that being Markle-esque is sometimes necessary when you are associated with Pitenpol folks. [Laughing] [Rolling Eyes] > >-------- >Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, >GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298326#298326 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Re: plans
Date: May 20, 2010
TWlrZSwNCg0KV2VsY29tZSB0byB0aGUgbGlzdOKApi50aGVyZSBhcmUgc2V2ZXJhbCBQaWV0cyBo ZXJlIGluIFV0YWguIEkgd2lsbCBjb250YWN0IHlvdSBvZmYgbGlzdC4NCg0KQnJpYW4NCg0KU0xD LVVUDQoNCkRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoNCiANCg0K ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 20, 2010
Wouldn't it be better to go slightly wider than the red square, along the line of edge distance with rivets? When I did Airframe stuff in school, my class got screwed out of the stick and rag stuff, so I don't know. Our instructor had a composites project he thought was more important, so we got zip on stick and rag. I think I was the only one in the class that had any interest in stick and rag. I'll get plenty building my Piet. I would agree Bill added extra weight that doesn't get him anything but a couple of pounds of extra weight if he did that on the whole airframe. :D -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298403#298403 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: plans
Date: May 21, 2010
Mike, I usually wait for Mike Cuy to say this to new Pietenpol builders, but he's fallen down on the job so I'll say it: The best investment you can make when beginning to build a Piet is to buy the Tony Bongelis books, all four of them: The Sportplane Builder, Sportplane Construction Techniques, Firewall Forward, and Tony Bingelis on Engines. Other worthwhile investments are the EAA's book on Aircraft Welding, Chet Peek's book on the Pietenpol, and Mike Cuy's video on building and flying a Pietenpol Air Camper. Chuck Gantzer also has a nice video available. I know Michael Perez is offering DVD's on building hints, but I haven't seen them, nor have I seen his airplane. Most of the questions you will have are covered in one or more of those sources. Anything else you can probably get answered on this forum in the archives. Good luck, and "Go Thou, and make Sawdust" Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of chase143(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:24 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plans Mike, Welcome aboard, you are in for a great journey building a Piet. Brodhead is a good time and a great first hand education. If you can swing it; one trip there and you will say "I can't afford not to go"! Enjoy the building! Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298332#298332 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: plans
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
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Date: May 21, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: plans
Thank you for the plug on my DVDs Jack.- I own all of the Bingelis books and I concur with most here, they are a must have. I always forget that I h ave them and waste time figuring things out on my own, just to find out the books had the answer all the time. (I STILL need to get them out where I c an see them every day.) - Since Jack mentioned my DVDs, I'll update the list on what is current: - 5 HINT DVDs now available all with newly improved animated menus and Light Scribed discs. Original content on the DVDs has not changed. Shipping is fr ee in contiguous United States. Shipping prices in place for Canada and the United Kingdom. All others need to use the EMAIL ME page for a quote. I am currently working on 2 new pages with pictures.- Visit www.karetakeraero .com to order direct with Pay Pal or credit card. - - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Flaperons...
Date: May 21, 2010
Has anyone tried flaperons? Is it feasable? Jeff Wilson 'niner whiskey tango' N899WT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
I personally have not, but I don't know why it would not be a possibility. There would be a weight penalty, I would guess, but I am sure if you wanted to do it, you could. I would be very interested to some of your ideas, if you want to contact me off list with some thoughts and sketches, that would be cool. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JERRY GROGAN" <jerry(at)SKYCLASSIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
Date: May 21, 2010
When I purchased mine it had flaps on it. It had been flying for years like that. I have not flown it that way, but I am going to leave them on. But I am rebuilding the entire airplane. So it will be awhile before we know how it handles with them on. Jerry Grogan Prairie City, IA Pieten 38 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff wilson To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flaperons... Has anyone tried flaperons? Is it feasable? Jeff Wilson 'niner whiskey tango' N899WT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
Date: May 21, 2010
I'm just curious as to why? For what benefit or change in performance? I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea. I'm sure it could be done. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On May 21, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Jeff wilson wrote: > Has anyone tried flaperons? Is it feasable? > Jeff Wilson > 'niner whiskey tango' > N899WT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 21, 2010
Uhhhh, rivets??? line of edge distance??? The gussets are secured to the frame with adhesive. The nails (optional) are simply there to hold the gusset in place while the adhesive cures. If you felt the need for bigger gussets than the plans show, one or two thicknesses won't make any difference, but as far as I know, there have never been any issues with the gussets on the plans being undersized. Actually, the gusset size I drew in red is bigger than the plans show (see attached clip from the plans). It looks like the gusset plate in the photo is at least 20 thicknesses oversized (at each end). By the way, my comments about gusset size aren't specifically in reference to "Airplane stuff", but rather, to gussets in general. My schooling didn't include ANY "airplane stuff". When all else fails, refer to the plans. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298433#298433 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/bhp_gusset_131.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 21, 2010
Lots of people have tried flaperons. Just not on a Pietenpol. :) By that, I don't mean that no-one has tried it on a Pietenpol, just not "lots of people". The better question would be "Why would anyone need flaps on a Pietenpol?". The basic purpose of flaps is to lower the stall speed. Well, the Piet wing already has a very slow stall speed, so why bother adding unnecessary complications and weight, with debatable benefit. Flaperons make sense on some aircraft, but I don't think the Pietenpol is one of them. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298434#298434 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
Bill, looking at the photo with the red line, and the plans, I can see the red outlined gusset is larger. Where I went to high school, 45 years ago, we didn't have wood shop, and I've never had the privilege of being around a cabinet maker or furniture maker, so I'm pretty green on wood working stuff. Looking at the plans pic, there is more than enough coverage from the gussets to make the joint strong. If it weren't strong enough, there would be Pietenpols falling out of the sky, and that hasn't been happening. What little bit of welding stuff I have done, I've used smaller gussets for reinforcing a corner than used here, with good success. I tend to overbuild things, because I've had problems with things breaking because they were slightly under built. A major reason I chose the Piet for my first airplane project if because there are a large number of successful builders who are willing to help with advice. I've wanted a stick and rag airplane for thirty years, and felt the least expensive way to get one was to build it. With support from successful builders like you, I will be able to accomplish my goal. I hear "follow the plans," probably more than any other advice on all of the chat groups. I know that is good advice, and should be strongly adhered to, but as one who tends to overbuild, it is sometimes difficult to do. Sort of like the deal, "when you're up to your *#$* in alligators, it is difficult to remember, the initial objective is to drain the swamp." The edge distance deal with rivets, is you don't want the metal ripping out, because the rivet hole was too close to the edge. Same as you don't drive a nail too close to the edge of a piece of wood. Thanks for your patience. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298437#298437 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 21, 2010
No problem Mike. I didn't get to take wood shop in high school either. I always thought I got cheated there. I've had no formal training in woodworking either. I learned what little I know about woodworking from watching my Dad (who DID get wood shop in high school - but that's all), and then trying things. If you're building the wood fuselage, just follow the plans. Many say that the Piet is overbuilt already - so resist ANY temptation to beef things up - all it will get you is a heavy plane. If you're building a steel tube fuselage, you'll be more on your own since the plans are "sparse". Lots of details to figure out on your own. Oh, and my point about mentioning "rivets" was that there aren't really any in the Piet. (I know, the plans say to attach the tail cable fittings with rivets, but those don't count) This List is a great place to learn, with a nice bunch of people. Welcome to the group, and have fun building. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298440#298440 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: plans
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
Videos ordered. Still shopping on books. Need to take more time to get latest edition of each. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298441#298441 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
Date: May 21, 2010
Flaperons... To bring stall speed from 35 down to 32. And with the added weight you'll have to increase your approach by 10mph so now you're landing at 42 mph. ;-) I'm sure I'll get quote wrong but here goes: keep it simple and build in lightness. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 21, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Jeff wilson wrote: > Has anyone tried flaperons? Is it feasable? > Jeff Wilson > 'niner whiskey tango' > N899WT > > > _ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
Bill hit the nail on the head. Why add flaps to a Piet? I have seen some of the earliest work done on flaps by NACA, and they found that having even the most slippery flaps on the plane slowed the plane down at all flying speeds, even when the flaps were not deployed. We are talking slightly more drag having this effect. A Piet is already very draggy and slow, already has a low stalling speed, and can really "plop" down in a flare at a 3-point attitude. And the rollout is minimal. BTW, when I was looking at the NACA flaps info, it was for another airfoil and project altogether. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> >Sent: May 21, 2010 11:42 AM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flaperons... > > >Lots of people have tried flaperons. Just not on a Pietenpol. :) >By that, I don't mean that no-one has tried it on a Pietenpol, just not "lots of people". > > >The better question would be "Why would anyone need flaps on a Pietenpol?". >The basic purpose of flaps is to lower the stall speed. Well, the Piet wing already has a very slow stall speed, so why bother adding unnecessary complications and weight, with debatable benefit. >Flaperons make sense on some aircraft, but I don't think the Pietenpol is one of them. > >Bill C. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298434#298434 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Example Annual Condition Inspection checklist
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
All, I just purchased a nice GN-1 (N30PP) here in Iowa, and have to get the annual condition inspection done on it (7 months overdue). Before I take it to an A&P, I'd like to go over it myself. I'd appreciate it if anybody could send me an example of one so I could be a little more intelligent about it. I went through the archives and wasn't able to find one - but may have missed it. thanks! Lorin Miller lorin.miller(at)emerson.com Colo, Iowa GN-1 N30PP Waiex N81YX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298446#298446 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Ailerflappers
Putting flapperons on a Pietenpol would be like putting whipped cream on an onion. Dan Y. is right, the stall speed of a Piet is already ridiculously low, the drag is exorbitantly high, and the approach angle power-off without flaps is steep enough for you to tie your shoes without bending over. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerflappers
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
At the end of this video there is a good example of why there are no "slow down" devices needed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAw3-4HK_U Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298452#298452 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Example Annual Condition Inspection checklist
Date: May 21, 2010
I'm on vacation so I don't have access to my laptop, but there are *condition inspection* checklists in the archives. Just search for the right terms. Ryan has the checklists I use, if you can't find 'em. -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 21, 2010, at 1:54 PM, ldmill wrote: > > > > All, > I just purchased a nice GN-1 (N30PP) here in Iowa, and have to get > the annual condition inspection done on it (7 months overdue). > Before I take it to an A&P, I'd like to go over it myself. I'd > appreciate it if anybody could send me an example of one so I could > be a little more intelligent about it. > > I went through the archives and wasn't able to find one - but may > have missed it. > > thanks! > > Lorin Miller > lorin.miller(at)emerson.com > Colo, Iowa > GN-1 N30PP > Waiex N81YX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Ailerflappers
Create a Pietenstorch: Flapperons, and Flaps. Leading edge slats, VGs. What else, Retro rockets and perhaps the engine rotating a la V22 Osprey ;^'} Blue Skies Steve "STOL" D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> Date: Friday, May 21, 2010 13:40 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ailerflappers > RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" < > > Putting flapperons on a Pietenpol would be like putting whipped cream on an onion. > > Dan Y. is right, the stall speed of a Piet is already ridiculously low, the drag is exorbitantly high, > and the approach angle power-off without flaps is steep enough for you to tie your shoes without > bending over. > > Mike C. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: horiz stab capstrip question
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
You talking about A&P school Mike? I have wondered if current A&P schools teach anything but riveted/aluminum aircraft structures since most graduates head for the airlines when they are done. rick On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 10:55 PM, GliderMike wrote: > > Wouldn't it be better to go slightly wider than the red square, along the > line of edge distance with rivets? When I did Airframe stuff in school, my > class got screwed out of the stick and rag stuff, so I don't know. Our > instructor had a composites project he thought was more important, so we got > zip on stick and rag. I think I was the only one in the class that had any > interest in stick and rag. I'll get plenty building my Piet. I would agree > Bill added extra weight that doesn't get him anything but a couple of pounds > of extra weight if he did that on the whole airframe. :D > > -------- > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298403#298403 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
I always heard the quote as: "Simplificate and add lightness!" Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> Date: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:08 Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flaperons... > Flaperons... To bring stall speed from 35 down to 32. And with > the > added weight you'll have to increase your approach by 10mph so now > > you're landing at 42 mph. > > ;-) > > I'm sure I'll get quote wrong but here goes: keep it simple and > build > in lightness. > > Dan > > -- > yocum(at)gmail.com > > On May 21, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Jeff wilson < wrote: > > > Has anyone tried flaperons? Is it feasable? > > Jeff Wilson > > 'niner whiskey tango' > > N899WT > > > > > > _ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Re: Example Annual Condition Inspection checklist
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Here are the two checklists that Dan sent me: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/Pietenpol_Air_Camper_Annual_Condition_Inspection_Checklist-orig.doc http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/Pietenpol_Air_Camper_anual_inspection-orig.doc Have a good day! Ryan On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > I'm on vacation so I don't have access to my laptop, but there are > *condition inspection* checklists in the archives. Just search for the right > terms. > > Ryan has the checklists I use, if you can't find 'em. > > -- > yocum(at)gmail.com > > > On May 21, 2010, at 1:54 PM, ldmill wrote: > >> >> All, >> I just purchased a nice GN-1 (N30PP) here in Iowa, and have to get the >> annual condition inspection done on it (7 months overdue). Before I take it >> to an A&P, I'd like to go over it myself. I'd appreciate it if anybody could >> send me an example of one so I could be a little more intelligent about it. >> >> I went through the archives and wasn't able to find one - but may have >> missed it. >> >> thanks! >> >> Lorin Miller >> lorin.miller(at)emerson.com >> Colo, Iowa >> GN-1 N30PP >> Waiex N81YX >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Example Annual Condition Inspection checklist
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: May 21, 2010
Thanks Ryan! I finally found them in the archive about the same time you posted this. Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX Pietenpol next up Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298459#298459 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flaperons...
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 21, 2010
Actually, I believe the original quote was: "Simplicate, and add more lightness." And the saying is attributed to William Stout, who, among many other achievements, designed the Ford Trimotor. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298460#298460 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Ailerflappers
Date: May 21, 2010
Add to that the fact that making the ailerons full span (when the flaperons are operating in aileron mode) would add generously to the already ridiculously high amount of adverse yaw the ailerons produce, without adding significantly to the roll rate. I've gt a few hours in a Fairchild 22, which has both full span ailerons and the slowest roll rate of anything I've ever flown. But, go ahead. I mean these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes. Some people even put Corvair automobile engines on them, so why not flaperons? Jim Markle -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ailerflappers Aerospace Corporation]" Putting flapperons on a Pietenpol would be like putting whipped cream on an onion. Dan Y. is right, the stall speed of a Piet is already ridiculously low, the drag is exorbitantly high, and the approach angle power-off without flaps is steep enough for you to tie your shoes without bending over. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerflappers
From: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Date: May 21, 2010
Wow! Tough crowd! Gary Boothe Corvair Powered (I hope) ------Original Message------ From: Jack Phillips Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ailerflappers Sent: May 21, 2010 1:20 PM Add to that the fact that making the ailerons full span (when the flaperons are operating in aileron mode) would add generously to the already ridiculously high amount of adverse yaw the ailerons produce, without adding significantly to the roll rate. I've gt a few hours in a Fairchild 22, which has both full span ailerons and the slowest roll rate of anything I've ever flown. But, go ahead. I mean these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes. Some people even put Corvair automobile engines on them, so why not flaperons? Jim Markle -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ailerflappers Aerospace Corporation]" Putting flapperons on a Pietenpol would be like putting whipped cream on an onion. Dan Y. is right, the stall speed of a Piet is already ridiculously low, the drag is exorbitantly high, and the approach angle power-off without flaps is steep enough for you to tie your shoes without bending over. Mike C. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: overbuilding a Pietenpol--some options
Glider Mike, Welcome to the list. There are a great bunch of guys on this list, some of whom are real aeronautical, mechanical, and material engineers and those of us with fairly decent experiences in building and been-there- done-that help for you. If you're one who likes to overbuild or redesign for more stoutness, don't build a Pietenpol. The design as-is is perfectly stout enough and has been flying as-built by plans for over 80 years now without any of us making it much better. Different maybe, better probably not. If you feel the need to overbuild then you'll want to do several things. Make the wings a few feet longer say 3 to 4 feet so you have more lifting area comparable to a Cub or Champ. The Piet wing is about 5 feet shorter than your typical Cub or Champ. Use a larger motor say a 100 hp 0-200. Loose some weight if you're a full-figured girl like me. If you want a REALLY good flying Pietenpol build it like the plans say to build it, no lighter, no heavier and you'll have a good flying airplane. If you feel like you need to put in full instruments in the front seat, fully reclining vibra-seats with heat, air conditioning, carpeting, stereo, full electrics, avionics, vacuum systems, and autopilots with full night lighting then you're going to have a single seat airplane that will be too heavy to carry a passenger and share the joy of open cockpit flying. As Jack said the Tony Bingelis books from EAA are an outstanding resource and Tony shows you how to do it right, several ways to do it right, the pros and cons of each, the cost analysis of various build options and will save you tons of time in wondering "is this safe, is this right, is this going to be airworthy ?" Use decent aircraft grade materials. Just because you could use Home Depot hardware and cables please don't do it unless you just want to fly alone all the time. There are some very cool hardware options people have come up with over the years and you can search many of these topics on the Matronics web site thru the archive search option. Sometimes as builders we can get stuck dancing on the head of a pin worrying about little things that aren't really worth worrying about since many aspects of building a plane this simple are just that-- not complicated. Let common sense prevail. Don't add it if you don't have to or really don't need it. If you want to make a cosmetic change, go for it. If you're going to redesign the wing spar or control system you're going not going to be test flying a proven design unless another has already tried and flown that exact design for years with good results or you had some knowledgeable person analyze it and bless it. Beware of old wives tales and hearsay. Beware of people who like to repeat information and listen to themselves talk but have never had any hands on building experience. Things like "I heard that after more a more than one-turn spin the airplane will........." but rather hearken to "my plan stalls at 30 mph indicated, power off" or "all of my T-88 glue joint test sticks broke in the wood, not in the glue joint." Best wishes--don't wait, order some wood, start building, spend more time building than on the computer, and do at least some little project on the plane every day or at least every other day if you can. Lastly--don't tell anyone you're building one so you don't get 50 visitors a month. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: overbuilding a Pietenpol--some options
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 21, 2010
Hi Mike...nice words mate! I like it. I have emailed you a couple of times to try to buy your DVD's. Are they still available? Scotty Australia www.scottyspietenpol.com -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298467#298467 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 21, 2010
Subject: Mike's Cuy's DVD
$25 US dollars to PO Box 736, Berea, OH 44017. Includes Priority Mail shipping. 2.5 hours long, plays on DVD players not computers. Not sure Scotty if the NTSC format we use here in the US will play in Oz since your players normally need DVD's in the PAL format last I knew. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A question about fuselage cross-pieces
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 21, 2010
Just recently joined the sides of my fuselage together, and was asked how I decided which way to orient the 1/2" x 1" cross-pieces and diagonals on the top and bottom of the fuselage. i.e. when viewed from above, are the cross-pieces 1/2" wide or 1" wide? I don't think it really makes any significant difference, and the plans don't really say which way they go. I went with the 1" dimension when viewed from above. My decision was based on the highly scientific method wherein one looks at the plans, and decides that the cross-pieces appear to be drawn about the same width as the longerons (which we know are 1" x 1"). Anyway, I was just curious as to what the consensus is out there in Piet-builder land (if there is a consensus). So the question is: Which way did you orient your top and bottom fuselage cross pieces? Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298469#298469 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_end_430.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: A question about fuselage cross-pieces
I did all of my fuselage members with the 1" side being vertical, meaning a ll my spruce cross members and diagonals "stand up tall." I did it this way so that 1" dimension matches the 1" dimension on the other wood pieces the y attach to.- FWIW - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Flap over Flaperons
Welcome to the club Jeff! (Well, mine anyway.) I do the exact same thing an d get the same general kind of replies you just did. I am very open to new thoughts, ideas, methods, techniques... even if to you, they are nothing mo re then a day dream. Someone else may go from there and run with it..who kn ows. - I look forward to you next out load thought...I'll have more as well. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: A question about fuselage cross-pieces
Date: May 21, 2010
Mine have the 1" dimension in the vertical direction. Yours will fall out of the sky if you don't change it. I can't believe it makes any difference and it was too long ago for me to even begin to remember my reasoning on doing it the way I did. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A question about fuselage cross-pieces Just recently joined the sides of my fuselage together, and was asked how I decided which way to orient the 1/2" x 1" cross-pieces and diagonals on the top and bottom of the fuselage. i.e. when viewed from above, are the cross-pieces 1/2" wide or 1" wide? I don't think it really makes any significant difference, and the plans don't really say which way they go. I went with the 1" dimension when viewed from above. My decision was based on the highly scientific method wherein one looks at the plans, and decides that the cross-pieces appear to be drawn about the same width as the longerons (which we know are 1" x 1"). Anyway, I was just curious as to what the consensus is out there in Piet-builder land (if there is a consensus). So the question is: Which way did you orient your top and bottom fuselage cross pieces? Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298469#298469 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_end_430.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Flap over Flaperons
Hey Jeff, I'm the one who often closes with "Now let's think about this..." It's a phrase I taught myself to say in my mind when things are melting down in front of me (sometimes actually melting down in the lab). Now it comes in useful when students are similarly melting something down in my lab, usually to the tune of several thousands of research dollars (!). (I, of course, have graduated from melting things down to simply blowing them up!) As to the flaperons, I once had it explained to me that the Pietenpol airfoil, with its negative reflex, functions something like a Clark Y (fat cross-section, flat bottom) with about 15 degrees of flaps. It is high lift but high drag. What do flaps do? Increase lift and drag. So, we're pretty much covered when it comes to short field operations. Further, the Piet really likes to slip. I'd like others' opinions on this, but since I've become comfortable with slips in the Piet, I've been thinking that if it all went pear-shaped one day, and I had to get the plane down on a spot with almost no open ground, I could slip right into it, right to the ground, and walk away, even if it totalled the plane. There is that much control and the speed can be that low. Jeff >Well, I'll put this one to rest. > >When I have a project of any sort under way I often walk around >during my day at work or at home thinking about it. Who is it that >always closes with "Now lets think about this" >Well I often do just that and sometimes I think out loud. > ... -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Ailerflappers
Uhhhh, why does this message have my name at the end of it? Hey, don't drag me into this!!! :-) -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> >Sent: May 21, 2010 3:20 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Ailerflappers > > >Add to that the fact that making the ailerons full span (when the flaperons >are operating in aileron mode) would add generously to the already >ridiculously high amount of adverse yaw the ailerons produce, without adding >significantly to the roll rate. I've gt a few hours in a Fairchild 22, >which has both full span ailerons and the slowest roll rate of anything I've >ever flown. > >But, go ahead. I mean these are EXPERIMENTAL airplanes. Some people even >put Corvair automobile engines on them, so why not flaperons? > >Jim Markle > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael >D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] >Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:32 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ailerflappers > >Aerospace Corporation]" > >Putting flapperons on a Pietenpol would be like putting whipped cream on an >onion. > >Dan Y. is right, the stall speed of a Piet is already ridiculously low, the >drag is exorbitantly high, >and the approach angle power-off without flaps is steep enough for you to >tie your shoes without >bending over. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike's Cuy's DVD
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 22, 2010
Hi Mike...thanks mate! I thought it was the video's that used the PAL and NTSC system? Over here our DVD players go on a zone system. Ours plays all zones. Does anyone else on here from OZ been able to play them? Bugger as I really want to have a look. Scotty :? -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298494#298494 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: A question about the fuselage cross pieces
Date: May 22, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Bill, Actually I have a good reason to recommend that these pieces be put in fla t-waze. On the underside of the fuze, I used these pieces for the perimete r of my giant access panel, to get at the cables, bellcranks, etc. I insta lled "T" nuts in those pieces to secure my screws. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A question about fuselage cross-pieces
Date: May 22, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Bill, After reading your post question, I went into the vault, and retrieved the special "pickle" canister that the B.H. Pietenpol "lost" papers are kept. This is similar to the set-up that they have in the National Archives, fo r the safe-keeping of the U.S. Constitution, where they have it under spec ial green glass, and bathed in xenon (or is it argon ?) gas. Anyway, as I realized that this was a very important question to be resolved, (these can only be removed once per year) I slowly discharged the gas, and care fully removed these much-treasured, tattered-edged papers. After careful examination, it is very clear that these fuselage cross pieces should be glued-in flat-wise. As I discovered this, I exhaled a huge, involuntary sigh of relief, because this was the way I did mine. As official custodian, I then re-packed and re-charged the "pickle" contai ner, not to be opened till at least next year. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca> Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 5:17 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: A question about fuselage cross-pieces a> Just recently joined the sides of my fuselage together, and was asked how I ecided which way to orient the 1/2" x 1" cross-pieces and diagonals on the top nd bottom of the fuselage. i.e. when viewed from above, are the cross-piec es /2" wide or 1" wide? don't think it really makes any significant difference, and the plans don 't eally say which way they go. I went with the 1" dimension when viewed from bove. My decision was based on the highly scientific method wherein one lo oks t the plans, and decides that the cross-pieces appear to be drawn about th e ame width as the longerons (which we know are 1" x 1"). Anyway, I was just curious as to what the consensus is out there in Piet-b uilder and (if there is a consensus). So the question is: Which way did you orien t our top and bottom fuselage cross pieces? Bill C. ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298469#298469 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_end_430.jpg -======================== ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A question about fuselage cross-pieces
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 2010
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Subject: Cabane struts
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 22, 2010
i'm still in the rib building stage, but was wondering, for those of you that have made 36" (or wider) center sections- do the cabane struts remain upright or do they angle out at the top? -------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298503#298503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: overbuilding a Pietenpol--some options
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 22, 2010
I've heard mention of a longer wing has that been done/successful? (been searching the archives) -------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298505#298505 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Mike's Cuy's DVD
I may be wrong, but I believe that NTSC and PAL are more in line with resol ution and format, where as the region code dictates what plays with what pl ayer.- From working with my HINT DVDs, my option for best quality while p roducing the DVDs is NTSC. All the other formats seem to be a lower quality or for PC playback only. (NOT knocking Mike Cuy's video at all...I have hi s video and recommend it to everyone...even if they fly something other the n a Pietenpol.) Last I head here in the U.S., our players were all region 1 . However, I have never been asked what region I want my DVDs to burn at, n or have I seen any region stuff on the home DVD players I have. Maybe all m odern home players are universal now and the region stuff is out the window ? If so, then our videos should play in any system. - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Mike's Cuy's DVD
Great intell. Ryan, thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: FW: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video)
Date: May 22, 2010
(sigh..) made just one year after the date on my plans. That makes it Pietenpol related.right? Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done From: Randy Farmer [mailto:r.l.farmer(at)comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 9:40 AM Subject: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video) This film is 21 minutes long so watch when you have time. The aviation buffs will like it. I really thought it was worth watching. What is the aircraft type? : The good old days when people dressed up to travel. http://marcbrecy.neuf.fr/aa.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: FW: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video)
"The good old- days when people dressed up to travel." - Back then people dressed nice just to go outside. They cared about how they looked, smelled, talked, the treatment of others, were kind, considerate, spoke intelligently... OK, I'm done. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cabane struts
Date: May 22, 2010
My centersection is 36" wide and my cabanes atr vertical. The fittings at the top must be modified to allow the struts to be inset 3". Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of echobravo4 Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 10:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane struts i'm still in the rib building stage, but was wondering, for those of you that have made 36" (or wider) center sections- do the cabane struts remain upright or do they angle out at the top? -------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298503#298503 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Cabane struts
Did you say modified Jack?!- I'm interested...please explain this mod...p ictures? I don't have the 36" C.S., but am curious as to what you did. Than ks. --- On Sat, 5/22/10, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cabane struts Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 2:24 PM et> My centersection is 36" wide and my cabanes atr vertical.- The fittings a t the top must be modified to allow the struts to be inset 3". Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of echobravo4 Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 10:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane struts i'm still in the rib building stage, but was wondering, for those of you that have made 36" (or wider) center sections- do the cabane struts remain upright or do they angle out at the top? -------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298503#298503 le, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 2010
Subject: Re: Cabane struts
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
The cabanes and the top and bottom fittings are unchanged. The spars just stick out a couple more inches on each side, and of course the wing connect fittings move with them. However since the three piece wing plans show the top of the wing connect fittings attaching at the top of the aileron pulley fitting a change has to be made here. I just connected the top of the wing connect fittings to the top of the cabane fitting (see attached), but they don't have to connect at all. rick On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:05 AM, echobravo4 wrote: > > i'm still in the rib building stage, but was wondering, for those of you > that have > made 36" (or wider) center sections- do the cabane struts remain upright or > do they angle out at the top? > > -------- > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up > where I intended to be. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298503#298503 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Cabane struts
Date: May 22, 2010
Here's a picture that shows the modification. The cabane strut fittings attach to the spar fittings further inboard than the plans show. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cabane struts Did you say modified Jack?! I'm interested...please explain this mod...pictures? I don't have the 36" C.S., but am curious as to what you did. Thanks. --- On Sat, 5/22/10, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cabane struts Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010, 2:24 PM http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > My centersection is 36" wide and my cabanes atr vertical. The fittings at the top must be modified to allow the struts to be inset 3". Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma tronics.com> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma tronics.com> ] On Behalf Of echobravo4 Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 10:05 AM <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane struts <http://us.mc833.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eab4@comcast.net> > i'm still in the rib building stage, but was wondering, for those of you that have made 36" (or wider) center sections- do the cabane struts remain upright or do they angle out at the top? -------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298503#29850 <http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298503#298503> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target=_blank>httpef="http://forums.matronics.com/" ; -Matt Dralle, List Admin========= ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flap over Flaperons
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 22, 2010
Now, Kip... That's not really the Canadian National Motto. But I don't think I'll get excited about your mistake. BC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298528#298528 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video)
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: May 22, 2010
My treasure trove of little know aeroplanes turned up this picture and a web site that enlightened me. It is worth a look. http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/curtiss-t32-condor-ii Good video Gary. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298538#298538 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/curtiss_t_32_condor_ii_118.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cabane struts
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 22, 2010
got it! thanks for the help guys! Earl -------- I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298541#298541 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mike's Cuy's DVD
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 22, 2010
Thanks guys...it was kind of what I was getting at. Now Mike Cuy...if you read this do you take Paypal by any chance? Im in Australia and a draft is another $25 so its much easier if I add a few dollars more and pay you via Paypal if you can do that? Scotty -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298542#298542 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Marshall Lumsden <mlumsden(at)charter.net>
Subject: remove from list
Date: May 22, 2010
Hi: I would like to remove my name from the pietenpol list. Many thanks. Marshall Lumsden ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Ailerflappers
From: "BYD" <byd(at)att.net>
Date: May 22, 2010
Don Emch wrote: > At the end of this video there is a good example of why there are no "slow down" devices needed. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAw3-4HK_U > > Don Emch > NX899DE If you're interested I added to this video I made years ago - it can be found at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG4ZH25ZFho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298559#298559 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: slips
Date: May 23, 2010
Jeff wrote: >Further, the Piet really likes to slip. I'd like others' >opinions on this, but since I've become comfortable with >slips in the Piet, I've been thinking that if it all went >pear-shaped one day, and I had to get the plane down on a >spot with almost no open ground, I could slip right into it, >right to the ground, and walk away, even if it totalled the >plane. There is that much control and the speed can be that >low. I would have to agree. I learned to fly in a 40HP J-3 Cub and practically every landing was made with a slip on final to adjust the approach. I was taught not to make long, flat draggy approaches and to always make my approaches with power off, so you always carried a little extra altitude that you trimmed off by slipping on final. The use of power to adjust the approach was usually met with the feel of the instructor's unseen hand pulling the throttle back to the stop. It's all about energy management. I like to operate off of the grassy part of the field at my home base at San Geronimo, where the final approach involves dropping the airplane in over some trees that are maybe 20-25 feet tall. If I slip it in pretty steep to drop in over the trees, I can do my landing and rollout on grass and never even get to the paved hard-surface runway. I have come in ridiculously high on final, thrown the airplane into a hard slip, and still made the grass. It's great fun and, like Jeff says, you can put the airplane into very small spots... especially in a pinch, where an intentional groundloop would be an acceptable alternative to something worse. A standard sized football field would be an incredible extravagance of space to land in, and no sweat at all in a Piet. PS, I think the national motto here in South Texas is, "never put off tomorrow what you can put off today". I think I'll go take a siesta... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch(at)us.army.mil>
Date: May 23, 2010
Subject: Re: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video)
WOW that really looks like a Biplane concept for the DC3. Knock the top wing off, round the fuselage some and viola. Cool Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)erec.net> Date: Saturday, May 22, 2010 16:22 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: American Airways ad, from 1938 (video) > > My treasure trove of little know aeroplanes turned up this picture and a web site that enlightened me. It is worth a look. > > http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/curtiss-t32-condor-ii > > Good video Gary. > > -------- > Jerry Dotson > 59 Daniel Johnson Rd > Baker, FL 32531 > > Started building NX510JD July, 2009 > Ribs and tailfeathers done > using Lycoming O-235 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298538#298538 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/curtiss_t_32_condor_ii_118.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: help out the newsletter by writing
Date: May 23, 2010
Hey everybody, If you can even partially write a decent sentence, please consider contributing something to the newsletter. Anything from building tips, to flight reports to fun stories and musings about aircamping is needed. Ive ready wonderful things on this list over the years, some highly motivational to a builder in the process yet never see them in the newsletter, where they could go on an encourage and motivate others. Contact Doc Mosher and send them in (and photos too) Douwe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: slips
Date: May 23, 2010
Oscar, N8031 slips very well but I have noticed that the rudder, when fully deflected, will stay in that position if I do not apply opposite pedal. Does yours do the same? How about other people's Piets? I think this is due to the lack of a gap seal on the vertical stabilzer. Thanks, Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 23, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > > > Jeff wrote: > >> Further, the Piet really likes to slip. I'd like others' >> opinions on this, but since I've become comfortable with >> slips in the Piet, I've been thinking that if it all went >> pear-shaped one day, and I had to get the plane down on a >> spot with almost no open ground, I could slip right into it, >> right to the ground, and walk away, even if it totalled the >> plane. There is that much control and the speed can be that >> low. > > I would have to agree. I learned to fly in a 40HP J-3 Cub > and practically every landing was made with a slip on final > to adjust the approach. I was taught not to make long, flat > draggy approaches and to always make my approaches with > power off, so you always carried a little extra altitude that > you trimmed off by slipping on final. The use of power to > adjust the approach was usually met with the feel of the > instructor's unseen hand pulling the throttle back to the stop. > It's all about energy management. > > I like to operate off of the grassy part of the field at my > home base at San Geronimo, where the final approach involves > dropping the airplane in over some trees that are maybe 20-25 > feet tall. If I slip it in pretty steep to drop in over the > trees, I can do my landing and rollout on grass and never > even get to the paved hard-surface runway. I have come in > ridiculously high on final, thrown the airplane into a hard > slip, and still made the grass. It's great fun and, like Jeff > says, you can put the airplane into very small spots... > especially in a pinch, where an intentional groundloop would > be an acceptable alternative to something worse. A standard > sized football field would be an incredible extravagance of > space to land in, and no sweat at all in a Piet. > > PS, I think the national motto here in South Texas is, "never > put off tomorrow what you can put off today". I think I'll > go take a siesta... > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: fuel tank
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 23, 2010
Have any of you made your own tank from galvanized metal ? and if so how successful were you in soldering up the joints? I am getting mine together right now for my center section and hope to be able to start soldering in a week or two if work and life doesn't slow me down too much.anyway just wanted to pick the brain of experienced solder hands either on or off-list.I have some acid core solder and access to 3 fairly heavy soldering irons I can borrow if I decide to try it myself. been a lot of years since high school and my only time to do it with heated irons in a furnace.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298616#298616 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: May 23, 2010
Raymond, Having only sweated copper fittings, why not use a propane torch, instead? I don't think you're going to get enough heat out of an iron. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 23, 2010, at 3:27 PM, skellytown flyer wrote: > > > > Have any of you made your own tank from galvanized metal ? and if so > how successful were you in soldering up the joints? I am getting > mine together right now for my center section and hope to be able to > start soldering in a week or two if work and life doesn't slow me > down too much.anyway just wanted to pick the brain of experienced > solder hands either on or off-list.I have some acid core solder and > access to 3 fairly heavy soldering irons I can borrow if I decide to > try it myself. been a lot of years since high school and my only > time to do it with heated irons in a furnace.Raymond > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: slips
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: May 23, 2010
Dan I think that I would look for a cable binding or hinge bind. I have not gotten my rudder cables installed yet but have stretched building strings and I can see that routing will be a challenge to get good geometry and no rubbing the framework. Why not sit the fuselage on blocks so the tailwheel hangs free and see what it does. If the hinges are not pretty close to where a single straight rod could pass through they will bind some where along the arc (personal experience on a stereo cabinet from years ago.....I said aw thats close enuff. NOT). -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298627#298627 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel tank
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 23, 2010
Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin metal hot and burning the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that happened I'd never get a good joint seal.I suppose Proseal is always an option but I'd rather not use it. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298631#298631 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Johnson" <ddjohn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: fuel tank
Date: May 23, 2010
I tryed to build a tank from galvanized metal. Used copper pop rivits with rosen core solder. It started to leak afer about 40 hrs.I don't know how you plan to get the acid from the inside. In time the acid will eat through. Dale > [Original Message] > From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Date: 5/23/2010 2:29:41 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank > > > Have any of you made your own tank from galvanized metal ? and if so how successful were you in soldering up the joints? I am getting mine together right now for my center section and hope to be able to start soldering in a week or two if work and life doesn't slow me down too much.anyway just wanted to pick the brain of experienced solder hands either on or off-list.I have some acid core solder and access to 3 fairly heavy soldering irons I can borrow if I decide to try it myself. been a lot of years since high school and my only time to do it with heated irons in a furnace.Raymond > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298616#298616 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: slips
Dan, My rudder does not stay in any position without positive input from my feet. Hence the lousy landings... Jeff > >Oscar, > >N8031 slips very well but I have noticed that the rudder, when fully >deflected, will stay in that position if I do not apply opposite >pedal. Does yours do the same? How about other people's Piets? I >think this is due to the lack of a gap seal on the vertical >stabilzer. > >Thanks, >Dan > -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: slips
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 2010
Dan, I've noticed something very similar with mine. It seems that once in a hard slip I need to apply almost the same amount of pressure in opposite rudder to straighten out. Other old taildraggers I've flown seem to want to get out of the slip more on their own, the Piet just takes a little effort. No big deal. I also seem to get a little stick shake. It's nowhere near a stall though. I think its just a little turbulence coming off of the big covered wire wheels that are now going sideways through the air. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298652#298652 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: May 23, 2010
I don't *think* it will burn off the zinc - it's only propane, after all. The melting point of zinc is 400C, the boiling point is 900C. The maximum temp of a propane flame is 1995C. You might get that at the tip of the blue cone (Mike C. probably can corfurm or deny that) but the temp of the tip of the yellow probably wouldn't melt the zinc and would melt the solder which melts at 180-190C. You might as well build up a small box and solder and see if it holds fuel. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 23, 2010, at 6:16 PM, skellytown flyer wrote: > > > > Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin metal > hot and burning the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that happened I'd > never get a good joint seal.I suppose Proseal is always an option > but I'd rather not use it. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel tank
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 23, 2010
I was thinking about a good sloshing with a water and baking soda solution and then a lot of hot water at the car wash. what do you think? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298657#298657 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: May 23, 2010
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the zinc WERE burned off, I'd think solder would flow to those areas and you'd be OK. If the galvanizing merely melted, it would mix with the solder - still shouldn't be a problem. Most of my soldering experience is on copper & brass pipe, but from what I've observed, with adequate flux, solder will flow to anyplace there's a properly cleaned surface, but no further. I'd avoid acid core, rosin core or any kind of core & go strictly with brushed on flux. Kip Gardner On May 23, 2010, at 9:37 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > I don't *think* it will burn off the zinc - it's only propane, > after all. > > The melting point of zinc is 400C, the boiling point is 900C. The > maximum temp of a propane flame is 1995C. You might get that at > the tip of the blue cone (Mike C. probably can corfurm or deny > that) but the temp of the tip of the yellow probably wouldn't melt > the zinc and would melt the solder which melts at 180-190C. > > You might as well build up a small box and solder and see if it > holds fuel. > > Dan > > -- > yocum(at)gmail.com > > On May 23, 2010, at 6:16 PM, skellytown flyer > wrote: > >> >> >> Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin >> metal hot and burning the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that >> happened I'd never get a good joint seal.I suppose Proseal is >> always an option but I'd rather not use it. >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: slips
Date: May 23, 2010
Yep. No big deal. Glad to hear mine's not the only one. The previous owner, a young aerospace engineer, put little yarn pieces all over the tail and videoed it during a full slip. The rudder actually "stalls" and needs that extra foot pressure to get out of the "stall." There was some disagreement between his other aeropsace engineer friends as to what caused it to behave that way, but my gut feeling is that there's so much air getting forced through the gap that it can't return to the normal position without some foot pressure. I just chalk it up to being one of those quirks of an airplane designed in 1929 by a man who just wanted to fly. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 23, 2010, at 9:18 PM, Don Emch wrote: > > Dan, > > I've noticed something very similar with mine. It seems that once > in a hard slip I need to apply almost the same amount of pressure in > opposite rudder to straighten out. Other old taildraggers I've > flown seem to want to get out of the slip more on their own, the > Piet just takes a little effort. No big deal. I also seem to get a > little stick shake. It's nowhere near a stall though. I think its > just a little turbulence coming off of the big covered wire wheels > that are now going sideways through the air. > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298652#298652 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: May 24, 2010
Soft solder is NOT a structuraly sound material. It's one thing to solder a copper water pipe. It's completely another to soft solder the joints in a fuel tank. Also you have to remove the zinc from the steel to expect any kind of safe joint. So tell me, Are you prepared to varnish all the wood and gussets in your plane and THEN glue them together? No? Why would you do the same with sheets of steel? Varnish is a coating and so is zinc. Nothing more. The minimum you might get away with is silver solder. Brazing is a significant step up from that. Then welding is the strongest but somewhat difficult on such thin material. It's a long way down from up there. Especially if you're covered in gasoline. Clif "Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty." - Mark Twain, writer and humorist > I don't *think* it will burn off the zinc - it's only propane, after > all. > The melting point of zinc is 400C, the boiling point is 900C. The > maximum temp of a propane flame is 1995C. You might get that at the > tip of the blue cone (Mike C. probably can corfurm or deny that) but > the temp of the tip of the yellow probably wouldn't melt the zinc and > would melt the solder which melts at 180-190C. > You might as well build up a small box and solder and see if it holds > fuel. > > Dan >> > Well that may be true but I am worried about getting the thin metal >> hot and burning the galvanize away. 'm afraid if that happened I'd >> never get a good joint seal.I suppose Proseal is always an option >> but I'd rather not use it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: May 24, 2010
I don't think Raymond is proposing to use just solder - the tank should be riveted together and the solder only used as the sealant. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 24, 2010, at 3:39 AM, Clif Dawson wrote: > > > > Soft solder is NOT a structuraly sound material. > It's one thing to solder a copper water pipe. It's > completely another to soft solder the joints in a fuel > tank. > > Also you have to remove the zinc from the steel > to expect any kind of safe joint. So tell me, Are > you prepared to varnish all the wood and gussets > in your plane and THEN glue them together? No? > Why would you do the same with sheets of steel? > Varnish is a coating and so is zinc. Nothing more. > > The minimum you might get away with is silver > solder. Brazing is a significant step up from that. > Then welding is the strongest but somewhat > difficult on such thin material. > > It's a long way down from up there. Especially if you're > covered in gasoline. > > Clif > > "Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty." > - Mark Twain, writer and humorist > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: tail wheel backing
From: "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com>
Date: May 24, 2010
I'm almost ready to flip the fuse, all I have to do is install some kind of tail wheel backing. Any ideas about size and location? Maybe a better question is "what's the best way to search the archives for specific questions?" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298730#298730 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
Subject: Re: tail wheel backing
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
http://www.matronics.com/search/ <http://www.matronics.com/search/>Select Pietenpol from the drop-down. I prefer "3 frame, Index" under the Output Method. 1. You can search for single words by just typing in the word and clicking Begin Search. 2. If you want to search for a phrase, just enter in the words and search. For example, if I wanted to find the phrase "tailwheel reinforcement" I would type it in just like that (minus the quotes). This will find every instance in a message where the word "tailwheel" is followed immediately by "reinforcement". The problem with searching for a phrase is that whoever was writing about the topic may have been talking about tailwheel reinforcement, but never actually used that phrase. They may have sprinkled both words about liberally in their post, just not together. If you search for my example above you will see you find zero results. Which brings me to method... 3. To search for multiple words in a post that do not necessarily have to be combined in a phrase, put an ampersand (&) between the words. I would take my above example and instead type it into the search box as "tailwheel & reinforcement" (again, minus the quotes). If you do so you will see that it actually returns two results instead of none. One of them is Mike Cuy mentioning how he reinforced that are for his tailwheel setup. 4. Finally, you can use the | character between two words to mean OR (shift and the backslash key will get it usually). If I searched for "tailwheel | reinforcement I will find all posts that contain one word or the other, or both. >From there it's just experimentation. Try to think which key words or phrases would have been written regarding the topic you wish to search about. Maybe I want to see what people have posted about Corvair engine baffling. Well, people may talk about the Corvair in their post, and the engine baffles, but they may not ever use the phrase "Corvair baffles". I would go ahead and search for "Corvair & baffles" and see what that produced. I could then try "Corvair & baffling". I might even try "Corvair & cooling", as there may be posts out there about Corvair engine cooling that may have info I am looking for but that don't necessarily use the words baffle or baffling. Hopefully that's at least as clear as mud. :P Ryan On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 12:27 PM, schuerrman wrote: > > I'm almost ready to flip the fuse, all I have to do is install some kind of > tail wheel backing. Any ideas about size and location? Maybe a better > question is "what's the best way to search the archives for specific > questions?" > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298730#298730 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail wheel backing
From: "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com>
Date: May 24, 2010
Ryan, Thanks, this REALLy helps. I'm sure that any of my questions have been asked for decades, and I really don't want to bother y'all with questions that have been asked before. I hear that the search engine is a great tool, and I've put in key words but I'm not sure that I was getting it right. thanks again. steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298759#298759 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: tail wheel backing
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns(at)att.net>
Date: May 24, 2010
This is how Mike Cuy installed his tail wheel. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/tailspring2.jpg http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/tailspring.jpg Chris -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298774#298774 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: fuel tank
I have been flying with my riveted/soldered galvanized tank for about 8 years. I got the theory from Ed Sampson while sitting under a tree at a B'head reunion in about 1999 and it works very well. I wrote an article about it and even mailed out a bunch of plans and instructions to those who asked. There is no mystery to doing things the old fashioned way except to those who are caught up in thinking that the latest technology or their own theories just have to be better than the way the pioneers did it. If you email me off-list, I'll try to locate some of the sheets that I wrote back then and get them to you.....or just give me a call! I can walk you through the process verbally 'cuz it ain't rocket science and you won't need a video unless you're under 30. Larry W. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: fuel tank
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: May 24, 2010
Regardless of the type of flux, whether a brushed-on liquid or paste, or in the core of the solder, it will need to be neutralized with the baking soda solution to prevent oxidation of the metal. The whole purpose of the flux is to remove any coatings or impurities from the surface of the metal so that the solder will make the proper mechanical bond with the steel. And when the heat hits the metal, the flux will run to places that it wasn't intended to go. There's no reason a properly riveted and soldered galvanized tank would be unsafe or unusable for a Piet. Plus, it can be used with either avgas or autogas interchangeably without fear of ethanol dissolving the resin as it might in a fiberglass tank. This is how I plan to do my tank when I get to that point (still probably years away from that point...). Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL kipandbeth(at)earthlink.n wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the zinc WERE burned off, I'd think > solder would flow to those areas and you'd be OK. If the galvanizing > merely melted, it would mix with the solder - still shouldn't be a > problem. Most of my soldering experience is on copper & brass pipe, > but from what I've observed, with adequate flux, solder will flow to > anyplace there's a properly cleaned surface, but no further. > > I'd avoid acid core, rosin core or any kind of core & go strictly > with brushed on flux. > > Kip Gardner > > > > > > > > -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298805#298805 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Real Progress!
BRING IT!- "You've- taken your first step into a larger world." - ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: fuel tank
Date: May 25, 2010
OK, That's different. The original message said nothing about rivets. Clif > > I don't think Raymond is proposing to use just solder - the tank > should be riveted together and the solder only used as the sealant. > Dan >> Soft solder is NOT a structuraly sound material. >> It's one thing to solder a copper water pipe. It's >> completely another to soft solder the joints in a fuel >> tank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: fuel tank
Date: May 25, 2010
Hello Folks! The Sprit Of St. Louis" had a riveted / soldered fuel tank! That was one BIG #@& fuel tank! (well, the main tank anyway) Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:42 PM To: Pietlist Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank I have been flying with my riveted/soldered galvanized tank for about 8 years. I got the theory from Ed Sampson while sitting under a tree at a B'head reunion in about 1999 and it works very well. I wrote an article about it and even mailed out a bunch of plans and instructions to those who asked. There is no mystery to doing things the old fashioned way except to those who are caught up in thinking that the latest technology or their own theories just have to be better than the way the pioneers did it. If you email me off-list, I'll try to locate some of the sheets that I wrote back then and get them to you.....or just give me a call! I can walk you through the process verbally 'cuz it ain't rocket science and you won't need a video unless you're under 30. Larry W. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: dropping things
Date: May 25, 2010
Toilet paper, shmoylet paper. Next big thing at Broadhead? :-) http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6496749n&tag=related%3Bphotovi deo Clif ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Date: May 25, 2010
HELLO EVERYONE! HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER" IT'S ALIVE AND WELL! DAVE Subject: Standard J-1 progress Yesterday and today pictures will fly sometime next week if it stops raining ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Long fuselage in tube and fabric?
From: "regchief" <kbosley(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 25, 2010
I found this post in the archives and saw no response to the request to see the plans drawn up by the builder of the long steel fuse. I would be interested in taking a look at them myself, if they are available Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298874#298874 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Date: May 25, 2010
Dave, Where did you get these photos? I've only seen two of this airplane on Don Parson's facebook page. He hasn't even posted them to his blog yet. It's not a Jenny. The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard. From my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny. I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. :) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" wrote: > HELLO EVERYONE! > > HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER" > > IT'S ALIVE AND WELL! > > DAVE > > Subject: Standard J-1 progress > >> Yesterday and today pictures >> will fly sometime next week if it stops raining > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Date: May 25, 2010
You are correct, it is not a Jenny. It is a Standard J-1; that was even in the subject line of his email. :P The Jenny, however, was not made by DeHavilland; DeHavilland didn't even exist as a company yet. The Jenny (or JN series) was built by the Curtiss Aeroplane Company of Hammondsport, NY. Ryan Sent from my iPad On May 25, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Wayne Bressler wrote: > Dave, > > Where did you get these photos? I've only seen two of this airplane on Don Parson's facebook page. He hasn't even posted them to his blog yet. > > It's not a Jenny. The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard. =46rom my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny. I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. :) > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > > On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" wrote: > >> HELLO EVERYONE! >> >> HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER" >> >> IT'S ALIVE AND WELL! >> >> DAVE >> >> Subject: Standard J-1 progress >> >>> Yesterday and today pictures >>> will fly sometime next week if it stops raining >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Mike Tunnicliffe <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
The first De Havilland aircraft (DH1) was completed in 1910, 95 percent of America's wartime aircraft production (WW1) were designed by DeHavilland, the company was formed in 1920, Regards Mike T, flying a Jodel, restoring a DH98, and building an Aircamper, to 1929 drawings, fuse and eppenage done, wing to be assembled, currently working on external combustion powerplant for the above Piet. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress You are correct, it is not a Jenny. It is a Standard J-1; that was even in the subject line of his email. :P The Jenny, however, was not made by DeHavilland; DeHavilland didn't even exist as a company yet. The Jenny (or JN series) was built by the Curtiss Aeroplane Company of Hammondsport, NY. Ryan Sent from my iPad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuselage Ply
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 26, 2010
Hi Guys...I am about to order my plywood for the Fuselage. Can someone confirm I have this right please? Floor is 1/4 inch. Instrument panels, seat backs etc and gussets are 1/8 inch Firewall is 1/8 inch although I found some in the Archives used 1/4 inch. I am struggling to find what thickness to use on the side sheets. It looks like 7/32 or something on the plan. Its very blurred. Can I use 1/8 or what is it meant to be? Scotty Tamworth, Australia www.scottyspietenpol.com -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298897#298897 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
I used 1 sheet of 1/4 inch, 2 sheets of 1/8 inch, and 1 sheet of 1/16 (for the leading edge of wing). If you are having it shipped, it probably makes sense to get it all at once. Ben Charvet NX866BC On 5/26/2010 3:55 AM, bubbleboy wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bubbleboy" > > Hi Guys...I am about to order my plywood for the Fuselage. Can someone confirm I have this right please? > > Floor is 1/4 inch. > Instrument panels, seat backs etc and gussets are 1/8 inch > Firewall is 1/8 inch although I found some in the Archives used 1/4 inch. > > I am struggling to find what thickness to use on the side sheets. It looks like 7/32 or something on the plan. Its very blurred. Can I use 1/8 or what is it meant to be? > > Scotty > Tamworth, Australia > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298897#298897 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 26, 2010
Thanks Ben...did you use the 1/8 on the fuse sides? Scotty -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298908#298908 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
From: "Bill Church" <billspiet(at)sympatico.ca>
Date: May 26, 2010
Stop struggling. It's right there in the middle of Drawing No 1. 1/8" plywood 2' x 6'. By the way, the plans actually call for the floor to be 7/32", but 1/4" is more commonly available. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298910#298910 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dwg_no_1_ply_211.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Real Progress!
I used 31 ribs. My fuel tank will be in the nose, so I kept the center rib in the center section. This rib will get modified so I can put baggage in t here, but it will still lend some support. - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
If I remember correctly, there is a side gusset right where the side plywoo d sheet stops; at the top. I believe the print shows this gusset as part of the side plywood sheet. If you do it this way, you may need a few inches m ore then 6'. Not sure, but take a look. - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Mike, What Jodel are you flying? Jeff >The first De Havilland aircraft (DH1) was completed in 1910, 95 >percent of America's wartime aircraft production (WW1) were designed >by DeHavilland, the company was formed in 1920, > >Regards Mike T, flying a Jodel, restoring a DH98, and building an >Aircamper, to 1929 drawings, fuse and eppenage done, wing to be >assembled, currently working on external combustion powerplant for >the above Piet. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:rmueller23(at)gmail.com>Ryan Mueller >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:28 PM >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress > >You are correct, it is not a Jenny. It is a Standard J-1; that was >even in the subject line of his email. :P > >The Jenny, however, was not made by DeHavilland; DeHavilland didn't >even exist as a company yet. The Jenny (or JN series) was built by >the Curtiss Aeroplane Company of Hammondsport, NY. > >Ryan > >Sent from my iPad > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: dropping things
From: "flea" <jimgriggs(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 26, 2010
I watched the video link provided, it was about the BP oil spill. The main characters in the piece were BP, the Coast Guard, and dead sea turtles, oh and of course oil. So at Broadhead are dropping Oil, dead sea turtles, coast guard brass, or BP execs? just wondering which of these items to pack. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298925#298925 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol list: Airplne Factory
Date: May 26, 2010
Happy Wednesday Piet Pilots. With warm weather here now, I'm surprised to see so many messages here in t his forum. All these posts must be from those with Perfect Piets and nothin g else to do. I would think that all those with airplane factories would be out there bus y and have no time for the computer chat. Of course there are builders in progress with legite questions to post. Som e with 18 or so ribs done, some with a new set of plans and lots of questio ns, some with corvair concerns and some T-88 mixing dillemas, some old buil ders and some older builders, some material questions and some dimension qu estions...and some who ''...just think about this''. But most of all there are a lot of bold and adventurous experimenters. In the dusty environment of my own airplane factory I sometimes sit and sta re while pondering possibilities of my own Piet progress. Having decided on an A-65 and a very nice Hegy prop (thanks OZ) and wire wheels I'm now pond ering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. Its much lighter than any ot her. Also, last week I pondered out loud on flaperons. Of course that was merely an exercise of mental speculation, knowing full well the answer was ''Tha ts Ridiculous'' This week I'm sitting here wondering about adverse yaw. Without having sear ched the archive first, does the Piet have a problem with it in general or is it not much of a concern? If yes then I would like to throw this out the re; how about differential aileron bellcranks? Of course that would mean a rod from crank to aileron. Jeff Wilson N899WT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
Subject: Re: Pietenpol list: Airplne Factory
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Jeff, You will encounter adverse yaw in a Piet. Thankfully Bernard, in his infinite wisdom, included a rudder in the design. As long as the pilot meets the airplane halfway by having two functional feet it should be of no concern. ;) Ryan On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Jeff wilson wrote: > Happy Wednesday Piet Pilots. > > This week I'm sitting here wondering about adverse yaw. Without having > searched the archive first, does the Piet have a problem with it in general > or is it not much of a concern? If yes then I would like to throw this out > there; how about differential aileron bellcranks? Of course that would mean > a rod from crank to aileron. > > Jeff Wilson > N899WT > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: "wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: OT - Boeing 40 and 787 Dreamliner Air-to-Air Photos
These are incredible shots. When you're done oggling the photos, read about how they got the shots. Photos: http://antiqueairfield.com/articles/show/582-the-photos-are-back-boeing-40-and-the-787-dreamliner How They Did It: http://antiqueairfield.com/articles/show/593-how-the-boeing-40-787-photo-shoot-was-done Special thanks go out to Antique Airplane Association for posting the photos and story on their website, Addison Pemberton for sharing the photos and restoring the beautiful Boeing 40, and a huge thanks to the folks at Boeing who had the willingness to make it all possible. Wayne Bressler Taildraggers, Inc. www.taildraggersinc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: gcardinal(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol list: Airplne Factory
Right on, Ryan! Yes, the Piet experiences quite a bit of adverse yaw. Since your feet need to be awake for the landing anyway, you might as well keep them awake whene ver you move the ailerons. The adverse yaw is definitely NOT an issue. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:57:14 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol list: Airplne Factory Jeff, You will encounter adverse yaw in a Piet. Thankfully Bernard, in his infini te wisdom, included a rudder in the design. As long as the pilot meets the airplane halfway by having two functional feet it should be of no concern. =C2- ;) Ryan On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Jeff wilson < jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com > wrote : Happy Wednesday Piet Pilots. This week I'm sitting here wondering about adverse yaw. Without having sear ched the archive first, does the Piet have a problem with it in general or is it not much of a concern? If yes then I would like to throw this out the re; how about differential aileron bellcranks? Of course that would mean a rod from crank to aileron. Jeff Wilson N899WT == ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Abramson" <davea(at)symbolicdisplays.com>
Subject: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Date: May 26, 2010
Don't Get Technical with me son! Ha Ha ! I have always called it a Jenny when referring to the movie.... Seems the Jenny name is more known... I do stand corrected!!!!! Thanks!!!! A friend of mine knows who own's the aircraft. It is in a collection in the St. Louis area. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Bressler Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:42 PM To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Dave, Where did you get these photos? I've only seen two of this airplane on Don Parson's facebook page. He hasn't even posted them to his blog yet. It's not a Jenny. The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard. From my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny. I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. :) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" wrote: HELLO EVERYONE! HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER" IT'S ALIVE AND WELL! DAVE Subject: Standard J-1 progress Yesterday and today pictures will fly sometime next week if it stops raining ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com>
Subject: Sad News GN-1 Fatal Crash
Date: May 26, 2010
My thoughts are with family and friends... http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=74469 Jack Textor 29 SW 58th Drive Des Moines, IA 50312 www.textors.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Yes I used 1/8" for the fuselage sides and all fuselage gussets. rick On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 6:43 AM, bubbleboy wrote: > scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au> > > Thanks Ben...did you use the 1/8 on the fuse sides? > > Scotty > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298908#298908 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
Subject: Re: Pietenpol list: Airplne Factory
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
> I'm surprised to see so many messages here in this forum. All > these posts must be from those with Perfect Piets and nothing > else to do. > I would think that all those with airplane factories would be > out there busy and have no time for the computer chat. Or we are un-retired Piet builders at work bored stiff with Internet access (am I the only person in that category?). You know what would really be fun would be to sneak your rib jig, capstrip, and T88 into work and get a few ribs built. rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
Yes, 1/8 for the sides and firewall. I used Okoume marine plywood. I think that grows down close to you, so check out the lumberyards that cater to the boating industry. Just make sure it is marine grade, so the glue used in making it will be waterproof. Ben On 5/26/2010 8:43 AM, bubbleboy wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bubbleboy" > > Thanks Ben...did you use the 1/8 on the fuse sides? > > Scotty > > -------- > Scotty > > Tamworth, Australia > Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper > > www.scottyspietenpol.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298908#298908 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol list: Airplne Factory
Compared to the Baby Ace I was flying prior to my Piet, the Piet has far less adverse yaw. The Baby Ace required you lead every turn with rudder, and flew just like a Cub. My Piet doesn't require nearly as much rudder. I built my aileron linkage per the plans, but my rudder is 2 inches taller than the plans. Ben Charvet On 5/26/2010 10:37 AM, Jeff wilson wrote: > Happy Wednesday Piet Pilots. > > With warm weather here now, I'm surprised to see so many messages here > in this forum. All these posts must be from those with Perfect Piets > and nothing else to do. > I would think that all those with airplane factories would be out > there busy and have no time for the computer chat. > Of course there are builders in progress with legite questions to > post. Some with 18 or so ribs done, some with a new set of plans and > lots of questions, some with corvair concerns and some T-88 mixing > dillemas, some old builders and some older builders, some material > questions and some dimension questions...and some who ''...just think > about this''. But most of all there are a lot of bold and adventurous > experimenters. > > In the dusty environment of my own airplane factory I sometimes sit > and stare while pondering possibilities of my own Piet progress. > Having decided on an A-65 and a very nice Hegy prop (thanks OZ) and > wire wheels I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. > Its much lighter than any other. > > Also, last week I pondered out loud on flaperons. Of course that was > merely an exercise of mental speculation, knowing full well the answer > was ''Thats Ridiculous'' > > This week I'm sitting here wondering about adverse yaw. Without having > searched the archive first, does the Piet have a problem with it in > general or is it not much of a concern? If yes then I would like to > throw this out there; how about differential aileron bellcranks? Of > course that would mean a rod from crank to aileron. > > Jeff Wilson > N899WT > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
From: "BYD" <byd(at)att.net>
Date: May 26, 2010
Well, at least Mary Beth has a better chance of recognizing a floor-flusher now. Do no archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298952#298952 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Larry Williams' fuel tank
Hola! Attached are the-plans for the galvanized fuel tank,-drawn by-Larry W illiams and blatantly-stolen by me. Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fuselage Ply
From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
Date: May 26, 2010
Thank you all for your confirmation. I appreciate it! Bill....you are right, one less glass of wine I think, none so blind as one who does not wish to see! On sheet 4 it says the floor is 1/4 inch and on sheet one the blurred dimensions say 7/32. Is it a mistake? Any way 1/4 inch is close enough to both of them ;o) Im ordering Hoop pine Marine grade ply as that is the Aussie standard here for aircraft. Thanks guys! Scotty -------- Scotty Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=298978#298978 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Is it available tot he public? I will be in St Louis next month and would l ove to come see it. Rodney Hall ---- Dave Abramson wrote: >Don't Get Technical with me son!=C2- Ha Ha !=C2- I have always called it a Jenny when referring to the movie.... Seems the Jenny name is more kno wn...=C2-I do stand corrected!!!!!=C2- Thanks!!!!=C2-A friend of mine knows who own's the aircraft.=C2- It is in a collection in the St. Louis area.=C2-=C2-=C2-Dave-----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Bressler Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Dave, Where did you get these photos? =C2-I've only seen two of this airplane o n Don Parson's facebook page. =C2-He hasn't even posted them to his blog yet. It's not a Jenny. =C2-The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard. =C2-From my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny. =C2-I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. =C2-:) Wayne Bressler Jr.Taildraggers, Inc.taildraggersinc.com On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" w rote: HELLO EVERYONE!=C2-HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PE PPER"=C2-IT'S ALIVE AND WELL!=C2-DAVE=C2- Subject: Standard J-1 progress Yesterday and today pictureswill fly sometime next week if it stops raining href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigat or?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref= "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www ============== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: 1667 strut
Hello This can be useful to someone.- I found a reference to the old designatio n BHP used on his darwings for the Air Camper and Sky Scout's cabane struts . The 1667 struts-were welded at the aft edge, just like the lift struts Pi etenpol used on his planes. Material is 1010 steel and were-made by Kawne er Manufacturing Co.- Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.- Saludos - Santiago -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: 1667 strut
I'm trying again, there is a drawing attached that doesn't show up in the p revious message. - This can be useful to someone.- I found a reference to the old designatio n BHP used on his darwings for the Air Camper and Sky Scout's cabane struts . The 1667 struts-were welded at the aft edge, just like the lift struts Pi etenpol used on his planes. Material is 1010 steel and were-made by Kawne er Manufacturing Co.- Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.- Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering
Hello group, I haven't checked my email in about a week. I am trying to get my hanger addition done so I can get the Piet back in the air. With any luck we won't have the only static display Pietenpol at my own piet gathering. It is just over 3 weeks untill it gets here so I am still going "balls to the wall, and tree top tall". Looking forward to seeing all of you that can make it. Hope the flying and building is going well, and hope everyone is staying safe. To those that plan on attending remember to fly a NORTH PATTERN, left trafic for R/W 10, left traffic for 28. And watch out for the R/C airplanes at the south west end of the field, they are supposed to yeild, but..... If they dont get out of you way you can drop waterballoons on em. If we can lets get a list of what you each plan on bringing for a dish, so I can get the rest, pop, chips, buns etc etc. Talk to Y'all soon Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Adverse Yaw
I guess our piet does have quite a bit of adverse yaw. In a fast taxi I can make turns with just the ailerons, of course the steering is backwards. But that is why old Bernard put a rudder on the back...isn't it? Yes you can make a more harmonized controled airplane by revising the aileron controls, but in my oppinion just build it and fly it like it is. By the way we have top mounted piano hinged ailerons, and they probably do have more adverse yaw than the plans type hinges. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 1667 strut exelente
these is bery good information but realy i dont want mes whit is bery compl icate bend large pis of metal whit my smal tool suply but lest- trate sey ou jorge from hanford --- On Wed, 5/26/10, santiago morete wrote: From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 1667 strut Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 6:19 PM Hello This can be useful to someone.- I found a reference to the old designatio n BHP used on his darwings for the Air Camper and Sky Scout's cabane struts . The 1667 struts-were welded at the aft edge, just like the lift struts Pi etenpol used on his planes. Material is 1010 steel and were-made by Kawne er Manufacturing Co.- Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.- Saludos - Santiago - -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 2010
From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Larry Williams' fuel tank perfect
tanks for sed these drawing is more easy in these way ,i like to used a ele ctric unid sender fuel gauge like my karmman ghia v.w. 1970 is flout in sid e and flat haet perfect for these tank and is aroun same dimention longer. you cand found in karmannghia.com product #919-051 67 73 oe. tanks again --- On Wed, 5/26/10, santiago morete wrote: From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Larry Williams' fuel tank Date: Wednesday, May 26, 2010, 10:58 AM Hola! Attached are the-plans for the galvanized fuel tank,-drawn by-Larry W illiams and blatantly-stolen by me. Saludos - Santiago -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Adverse Yaw
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com>
Date: May 27, 2010
It's kind of funny, the Piet has lots of adverse yaw, but I don't even notice it. The feet and hands just kind of work together I guess. Don Emch NX899DE P.S. Looking forward to the "Ohio Pietenpol Gathering"! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299030#299030 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Target Brodhead, pregress report
Date: May 27, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Last night I assembled all the painted 3-facet windshield parts, and mount ed to fuse. I only have one windshield (for pilot). I believe Bernard did it this way. Am I correct? I would check in the BHP "lost" papers to confirm, but I have already open ed that sealed jar the allotted one time this year. I wonder how beat up my front seat passenger will get from the wind? How much will the radiato r block the slipstream? Opinions wanted please. Tonight I begin mounting the tailfeathers. FUN!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Target Brodhead, pregress report
Date: May 27, 2010
Says Chet Peek on page 31: "No windshield can be seen on any of the early model photos, and none is shown on the original plans. The occupants are usually shown with helmet and goggles; perhaps this was enough of a shield at the 65 MPH airspeed. Most homebuilders adapted their individual windshield design ideas into their planes." Uh oh....better go take that new windscreen off and put it on the shelf! :) I'm not not sure how early Chet means when he says "early model", as there are pictures here and there of Pietenpol constructed airplanes with a rear windshield, 77W for example... Ryan Sent from my iPad On May 27, 2010, at 6:20 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > Last night I assembled all the painted 3-facet windshield parts, and mounted to fuse. I only have one windshield (for pilot). I believe Bernard did it this way. Am I correct? > I would check in the BHP "lost" papers to confirm, but I have already opened that sealed jar the allotted one time this year. I wonder how beat up my front seat passenger will get from the wind? How much will the radiator block the slipstream? Opinions wanted please. > > Tonight I begin mounting the tailfeathers. FUN!! > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Larry Williams' fuel tank
I'd like to thank Santiago for posting the plans that I drew up for the steel tank fabrication. I'm currently not at home and don't know exactly when I'll be back plus I'm still not too sure which box in my hangar that stuff is in. It's a load off my mind now that I don't have to remember who wanted plans and dig around to find them when I get back home. Thanks a million Santiago, I'll buy you a pork chop dinner the next time you come to Brodhead!! Larry W. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: latex paint
Date: May 27, 2010
Jeff pondered: >I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. >Its much lighter than any other. Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: -- De Havilland Aircraft
Date: May 27, 2010
From: tbyh(at)aol.com
Geoffrey De Havilland was working for Airco and designed the famous DH-4 biplane used extensively by the Brits and the US in WW1. When the war end ed in 1918, De Havilland bought the assets of Airco and officially incorpo rated De Havilland Aircraft Company in 1920. The US Army Air Service and US Army Air Corps used DH-4s in WW1 and for many years after and into the 1930s. The DH-4 was one reason the US developed the Liberty series of eng ines. DH-4s were built in the US during WW1 by a variety of manufacturers including Fisher/GM. After the war DH-4s were a real workhorse and were used to test a variety of new technologies, including aircraft superchargers. During the summer of 1920 four U.S. Army DH-4s flew from Mitchel Field (not named for the Billy Mitchell, but for the young ex-mayor of New York City who was kille d in flight training during WW1) on Long Island to Nome, Alaska, and back -- some 10,000 miles (not non-stop, of course). It was the first time any aircraft had flown from the lower states to the Alaska territory. The tri p had its origins in the minds of none other than Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold who were already thinking of Alaska as a strategic base for Americ an airpower. Several of the flyers on that Alaska venture went on to play roles in planning the 1924 US Army around-the-world-flight with the Dougl as World Cruisers (which also used Liberty V-12 engines)...in fact, Lt. Er ic Nelson who had been part of the Alaska trip participated in the 1924 ro und -the-world flight and later played an important role in the developmen t of the Boeing B-29. The leader of the DH-4 flight to Alaska, Capt. St. Clair Streett worked in the War Plans Office in Washington DC during WW2 and was later given command of the 13th Air Force (I believe)... The only reason I know all of this is because my grandfather supplied gaso line for the Alaska trip DH-4s when they stopped in Winona, Minnesota, tha t summer and fall of 1920. Anyway, the first DH-4s had their faults (like a pressurized fuel tank that sat between the pilot and the rear gunner an d would go up like a Roman candle when hit by German fire -- or crush and burn the pilot in a crash landing) but later versions played a very impor tant role in the progress of aviation. De Havilland's DH-4 was very defini tely a contemporary of the Curtiss JN-4 and Standard J-1... Anyway, there's my 2 cents for the day... Fred B. La Crosse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress
Creve Coeur Airport....Do NOT get anywhere near St Louis without a visit to Creve Coeur Airport!! :-) Last time I was there I got to see the Jenny in one of their "museum" hangars.... >From HOT/MUGGY Houston....jm -----Original Message----- From: r.r.hall(at)cox.net Sent: May 26, 2010 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Is it available tot he public? I will be in St Louis next month and would love to come see it. Rodney Hall ---- Dave Abramson wrote: > Don't Get Technical with me son! Ha Ha ! I have always called it a Jenny when referring to the movie.... Seems the Jenny name is more known... I do stand corrected!!!!! Thanks!!!! A friend of mine knows who own's the aircraft. It is in a collection in the St. Louis area. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Bressler Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:42 PM pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper Standard J-1 progress Dave, Where did you get these photos? I've only seen two of this airplane on Don Parson's facebook page. He hasn't even posted them to his blog yet. It's not a Jenny. The Jenny was a DeHavilland, this is a Standard. From my limited understanding, it's noticeably larger than a Jenny. I think I'm correct about that, but I've been wrong before. :) Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com On May 25, 2010, at 5:25 PM, "Dave Abramson" wrote: HELLO EVERYONE! HERE IS THE JENNY THAT WAS USED IN THE "GREAT WALDO PEPPER" IT'S ALIVE AND WELL! DAVE Subject: Standard J-1 progress Yesterday and today pictures will fly sometime next week if it stops raining href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http--> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Target Brodhead, pregress report
Hi Dan, congratulations! The only "problem" I can see about not using a front windshield is the heat coming from the radiator right on the passenger's face.-That can be unco mfortable in a summer day. But you're not your passenger, so, don't put a f ront windshield! Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: latex paint
I used 1.8 oz dacron, and finished with Latex. The whole thing is Douglas Fir, and I still came in under 700 pounds. Used Stewart System glue, so I had a no fume paint job. Ben On 5/27/2010 9:02 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga > > > Jeff pondered: > > >> I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. >> Its much lighter than any other. >> > > Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be > that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I > have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test > methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this: > >
http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adverse Yaw
Date: May 27, 2010
The adverse yaw present in the piet is NOTHING compared to any sailpane I've flown. If you want some good practice dealing with adverse yaw (and coordinated flight, close formation flying, energy management, commitment to the landing, etc.) I highly recommend getting some time in a glider. The Schweizer 2-33 is a very forgiving glider and has huge amounts of adverse yaw. It's just something you have work with and get used to. No big deal. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: latex paint
Oscar, I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your methodology reflects the rigors of science in your "day job." Thanks for starting this test. However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version? Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat blocks UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added protection at added weight. BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly behind. Finish unknown.) Thanks for this test. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint > > >Jeff pondered: > >>I'm now pondering possible paints and leaning toward Dope. >>Its much lighter than any other. > >Well, maybe and maybe not. I ran some tests and it may be >that latex weighs no more than the Polyfiber method, but I >have not flown the latex paint system myself. For my test >methodology and conclusions, you can ponder this: > >http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/paint/paint.html > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Larry Williams' fuel tank
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: May 27, 2010
Thanks to Santiago & Larry for sharing that. Congratulations on your grandson Larry. Those instructions are great, clear and easy to follow. There should really be no problem building the tank. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299089#299089 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial!
Date: May 27, 2010
230lbs. That should fit on a Piet. http://motorstarna.com/r-263-engines/general-information -- yocum(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
Subject: Re: Hoo-wee! A 125hp 5 cyl radial!
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
If you back up to the base page they link to a video...middling cell phone quality, but it does show it running. Check out the Development page....apparently the M14 cylinder heads they utilize have a combustion chamber that's just not right for what they want to achieve. They have switched to O-200 cylinders (!), and as such have relocate the cam disk to the rear of the engine (pushrods in the rear). So much for the classic radial look. :P Interesting attempt though... Ryan On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > 230lbs. That should fit on a Piet. > > http://motorstarna.com/r-263-engines/general-information > > > -- > yocum(at)gmail.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 27, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio Pietenpol Gathering
Correction for my pattern instructions, it should have read, Right traffic for r/w 28, left traffic for 10. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: A neat seat idea from a Seattle, WA Piet builder
From: "bluiewest1" <mseckinger1(at)netzero.net>
Date: May 27, 2010
Mike, Any updates on this project? I would certainly like to see how the finished seats look! Jake Schultz chose to build his fuselage using 4130 tubing. I have read, although only a few times, about Aircampers being tail heavy. Would a tube fuselage alleviate this or is it more a matter of weight distribution? Regards, Marion Seckinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299107#299107 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: John Franklin <jbfjr(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: latex paint
Tim, If you browse through all of Oscar's links, you will find one that addresses that very subject, and the conclusion was that the white latex blocks UV better because of the titanium dioxide plus the improved reflectivity of the color: http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/latexpaint_uvbarrier.htm Regards, John F. GN-1 Richmond, TX -----Original Message----- >From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: May 27, 2010 3:57 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint > > >Oscar, > I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your methodology reflects the rigors of science in your >"day job." Thanks for starting this test. > However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version? Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? > In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat blocks UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added protection at added weight. > BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly behind. Finish unknown.) > Thanks for this test. >Tim in central TX > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >>Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM >>To: Pietenpol List >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint >> > > ________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: latex paint
Date: May 28, 2010
Tim wrote: >was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex >finish version? No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house paint will do the job because they are all formulated to cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on). > Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent >(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we >conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, >that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame. The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel. >in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, >can we not see translucent light through light colors in >the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both >above and below the ribs? I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: The other Ohio Fly-in
Date: May 28, 2010
Hey Everyone, While Shad's "Fly-in" (Yes, i know it's not an official event) is coming up soon, I'd like to remind everyone that our EAA Chapter is hosting a fly in next weekend that should be of interest to a lot of you. Both of Frank Pavliga's Piets are generally on display, and a lot of other vintage aircraft typically show up. Also, you'll get to look at a lot of Corvairs in 'ground mode' i.e. still in cars, and Roy of Roy's Garage will be there to talk about his fifth bearing work and other aspects of Corvair conversion. He will also inspect & measure any components you bring to determine if they are OK for conversion. Here's the official announcement: EAA 82 is having it's 4th Annual "WINGS AND WHEELS FLY-IN" on Saturday and Sunday, June 5 & 6th at BARBER AIRPORT (2D1). The field is located approximately three miles north of Alliance, Ohio on State Route 225. There will be aircraft with automotive and alternative engines - CORVAIRS AND VOLKSWAGENS on display. Ther will be a pancake breakfast on Saturday and Sunday from 7 till 11 AM with lunch on Saturday from noon till 2 PM. This event is open to the public. There will be homebuilt aircraft ( KR-2S's, Pietenpols, an Afford-a- Plane), PRA #19 (Rotorcraft Chapter) will have trikes and a demonstrator, and Vintage and Antique aircraft (Waco 9, Fleet, Taylorcrafts) on the field. There will be a fleet of some nicely restored Corvair cars on display. There will be several Corvair engines and a "Roy's Garage" Fifth Bearing on display for those who are interested in using a Corvair in their project. Roy Szarafinski of Roy's Garage will be present to answer questions about his bearing and will gladly check your engine cases for proper tolerances before you start an engine rebuild. The fly-in hours will be Saturday... 7 AM - 4 PM and Sunday... 7 AM - 2 PM. For more information, contact Ron Willett @ 330-314-0075, Pete Klapp @ 330-388-2074, or Forrest Barber (FBO) at WWW.BARBERAIRCRAFT.COM. We can provide lodging for those who would be flying in for our event. Hope to see you all there! Kip Gardner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: latex paint
I believe the findings were that all colors of latex had similar UV protection. That being true your "base" should be a color that will enhance your color coat. I would use a white base coat, maybe a high solid primer like Kilz that may also add some anti mildew properties, for light colors and maybe black for only darker colors where the white would make them harder to get the right shade. Or if your building a Night Fighter :-) ---- John Franklin wrote: > >Tim, > >If you browse through all of Oscar's links, you will find one that addresses that very subject, and the conclusion was that the white latex blocks UV better because of the titanium dioxide plus the improved reflectivity of the color: > >http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/latexpaint_uvbarrier.htm > >Regards, >John F. >GN-1 >Richmond, TX > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> >>Sent: May 27, 2010 3:57 PM >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex paint >> >> >>Oscar, >>I looked at your interesting post linked to your "flying squirrel" site. Your methodology reflects the rigors of science in your >>"day job." Thanks for starting this test. >>However, was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex finish version? Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent (upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? >>In other words, is there a real basis for the belief that a black basecoat blocks UV? If so, to get this protection, do we need an extra finish coat if using light colors, to be able to cover completely the dark undercoats? Thus added protection at added weight. >>BTW, in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, can we not see translucent light through light colors in the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both above and below the ribs? (I recall seeing a couple of pix like that, with planes flying overhead with the sun almost directly behind. Finish unknown.) >>Thanks for this test. >>Tim in central TX >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >>>Sent: May 27, 2010 8:02 AM >>>To: Pietenpol List >>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint >>> > >> >> >> > > >________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: New Piet in Indiana
Date: May 28, 2010
I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the Pietenpol list. My name is Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg referred to as having a new Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana. In fact, I have the privilege of acquiring the Model A engine that was in Douwe's Piet. My project is not exactly new. I acquired it as a partially completed project in 1993, worked on it for a couple of years and then it languished for about 15 years until I retired last year. I've put a lot of time into it since then. The attached photo shows it as I was doing a preliminary weight and balance. The wing is now covered with fabric and I'm about to start the enviable job of rib stitching. I've enjoyed reading the Pietenpol list entries for the last few months, and Douwe convinced me to start contributing to the conversation. I plan to be in Brodhead this year so hope to meet up with others on the list. Larry Morlock ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: New Piet in Indiana
Date: May 28, 2010
Looks great, Larry. It's good to have you on this site, and I look forward to meeting you at Brodhead this summer. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Morlock Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet in Indiana I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the Pietenpol list. My name is Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg referred to as having a new Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana. In fact, I have the privilege of acquiring the Model A engine that was in Douwe's Piet. My project is not exactly new. I acquired it as a partially completed project in 1993, worked on it for a couple of years and then it languished for about 15 years until I retired last year. I've put a lot of time into it since then. The attached photo shows it as I was doing a preliminary weight and balance. The wing is now covered with fabric and I'm about to start the enviable job of rib stitching. I've enjoyed reading the Pietenpol list entries for the last few months, and Douwe convinced me to start contributing to the conversation. I plan to be in Brodhead this year so hope to meet up with others on the list. Larry Morlock ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
Subject: Re: latex paint
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
For those of you whose have not seen my Latex test panel project, it is going on 5 years (in August) pointing true South at 6700 ft. in Colorado. Still looks great. Punch tested it last year and one side the tester could not punch the fabric and punched through on the other side only at the maximum rating of the tester. This is with two cross-coats of Sherwin-Williams Super Paint Gloss, on bare medium fabric on one side and on top of a coat of Poly-Brush on the other. This is exposed 7x7 and 365 days a year so if you have your plane out of the hanger 100 hrs/year you will have to own your plane 438 years to get the same exposure to the Sun (and leave it out in several hail/snow/rain storms). I definitely do not believe you need any black latex base coat, am painting mine with two cross-coats of latex primer and two latex satin top cross-coats. rick On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > Tim wrote: > > >was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex > >finish version? > > No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary > to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to > block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house > paint will do the job because they are all formulated to > cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on). > > > Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent > >(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we > >conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, > >that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? > > In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame. > The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower > left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel. > > >in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, > >can we not see translucent light through light colors in > >the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both > >above and below the ribs? > > I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system > is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide > UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause > the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not > necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think > you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it > to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: New Piet in Indiana
That's NICE Larry! I especially like the colors/paint layout. I've wondered for a long time how to blend in the paint right behind the pilot's area...I think I'll do mine the way yours is layed out. So for the umpteenth time I've just spoken the words "Wow, I hope mine ends up THAT nice!" JM -----Original Message----- From: Larry Morlock Sent: May 28, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Piet in Indiana I'd like to introduce myself to everyone on the Pietenpol list. My name is Larry Morlock and I'm the person Douwe Blumberg referred to as having a new Pietenpol project in Columbus, Indiana. In fact, I have the privilege of acquiring the Model A engine that was in Douwe's Piet. My project is not exactly new. I acquired it as a partially completed project in 1993, worked on it for a couple of years and then it languished for about 15 years until I retired last year. I've put a lot of time into it since then. The attached photo shows it as I was doing a preliminary weight and balance. The wing is now covered with fabric and I'm about to start the enviable job of rib stitching. I've enjoyed reading the Pietenpol list entries for the last few months, and Douwe convinced me to start contributing to the conversation. I plan to be in Brodhead this year so hope to meet up with others on the list. Larry Morlock ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Smoke On!
Date: May 28, 2010
Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren=92t the only ones who can smoke =91em. I have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being disappointed with the initial results, I have tweaked the installation with a larger oil supply line and now have outstanding smoke. I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the floor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will simply remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of the way. When I want to smoke =91em, I fill the tank with used automatic transmission fluid (cost ' nothing, as opposed to the =93real smoke oil=94, Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for $582 a 55 gallon drum, or the baby oil that Chuck favors at an even higher price). Then I reposition the tank on the floor board, stretch the bungee cord around to hold it in place, reconnect the tank=92s quick disconnect and give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes to prime the smoke oil into the line. The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on the firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to energize the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12=94 of black rubber hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to =BC=94 stainless steel tubing that runs to a port welded into the exhaust stack of # 1 cylinder. I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms roll in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and video. I want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission fluid can make. Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4=85 Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: latex paint
Oscar, Thanks for anothe good post. Your following words solved the problem for me: "In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame. The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel." Obviously I misunderstood what I was seeing. All my other questions and concerns are moot. I will consider latex paint. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> >Sent: May 28, 2010 7:55 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint > > >Tim wrote: > >>was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex >>finish version? > >No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary >to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to >block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house >paint will do the job because they are all formulated to >cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on). > >> Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent >>(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we >>conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, >>that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? > >In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame. >The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower >left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel. > >>in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, >>can we not see translucent light through light colors in >>the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both >>above and below the ribs? > >I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system >is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide >UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause >the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not >necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think >you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it >to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com>
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
Jack: Hope you have fire sleeve on that black rubber hose! Smoke is OK. Fire - not so much! Stinemetze N328X >>> "Jack Phillips" 5/28/2010 9:38 AM >>> Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer arent the only ones who can smoke em. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 28, 2010
Subject: Smoke On!
Fantastic report Jack. I'm thrilled for you. You'll have a BLAST with that system. One thing I love to do on super calm nights before sunset is to cruise in l evel flight, lay a track of smoke then do a strong pulling turn left or rig ht. You look over your shoulder and can see how the horizontal tail vorti ces swirl the smoke until it curls in on itself like you see in low, fast m oving storm clouds. Another cool thing to do is a 60 degree steep turn with smoke. When you run into your own smoke at the 360 degree point you know your altitude didn't stray and you'll hit your wake/ propwash. Now you've got me thinking (once I finally run out of my last 5 gallon cont ainer of smoke oil) about switching to used transmission fluid. What say you now about the color quality of the smoke ? White, off white , gray white, ? I only carry =BD gallon of smoke oil but if I would have to guess I can lay 7 or so swaths approximately 3,000 feet in length with that so I'm hoping that with your 3.5 gallons you'll be able to smoke like crazy for a long ti me. One thing you might want to avoid is smoking at lower throttle settings. Two things happen. You get raw fluid mixed with smoke because the your EG T isn't hot enough to fully vaporize the flow and two, the raw fluid reduce s the life of the rubber strands in your bungee cords---makes them stiff, s omewhat brittle. You'll notice when you replace your bungees again in a number of years when they are ready once again to be replaced that the smoke side will be less flexible than you non-smoking side. Carry on ! [cid:image002.jpg(at)01CAFE5B.976D6B50] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
From: "chase143(at)aol.com" <chase143(at)aol.com>
Date: May 28, 2010
Jack, Have you considered sky-writing!? I've done the calculations for you: 3.5gals, at 5,000', 30kts of wind, you can probably get "Smith Mountain Lake Bedford Lan..."! Oh, you'll still have oil, but you will be out of gas! Better use the RV! BTW, Congrates. Steve -------- Steve www.mypiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299152#299152 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: May 28, 2010
The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for winds to be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph with severe clear sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from a retired gent, and it's finally sitting in my hanger in Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of t&g, and sightseeing. It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open cockpit - what a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, come to think of it. All tailwheel time to date has been with instructor cause they don't let the cub go Solo. Glad I had the Cub time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It was interesting to have to keep power in all the way onto the ground. Pulling power completely off more than about 2 feet above the ground results in brick-like performance. Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299173#299173 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: latex paint
One question about Latex paint I haven't seen answered anywahere ia a procedure or practical way to repair holes or tears. With other systems it is pretty well spelled out but will fabric glue stick to the painted fabric and if not how would one go about removing it? Anyone have suggestions? I would hesitate to paint with Latex if I didn't have a way to repair it. Rodney Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP
Date: May 28, 2010
Congrats! Fun, ain't it? 60-65 on final is a good speed with 50 over the numbers and she'll 3- point every time. Fly a nice high and tight pattern right to final then cut the throttle and manage your speed with pitch (and a little power when you feel the urge). You really can land a Piet in the length of a tennis court with the net up. Got any pictures of your "new" bird? Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 28, 2010, at 2:32 PM, ldmill wrote: > > > > The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for > winds to be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph > with severe clear sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from > a retired gent, and it's finally sitting in my hanger in > Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of t&g, and sightseeing. > > It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open > cockpit - what a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, > come to think of it. All tailwheel time to date has been with > instructor cause they don't let the cub go Solo. Glad I had the Cub > time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It was interesting to have to > keep power in all the way onto the ground. Pulling power completely > off more than about 2 feet above the ground results in brick-like > performance. > > Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D > > Lorin > > -------- > Lorin Miller > Waiex N81YX > GN-1 N30PP > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
Subject: Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
There are a few pics on Westcoastpiet: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n30pp.htm <http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n30pp.htm>Ryan On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Congrats! Fun, ain't it? > > 60-65 on final is a good speed with 50 over the numbers and she'll 3-point > every time. Fly a nice high and tight pattern right to final then cut the > throttle and manage your speed with pitch (and a little power when you feel > the urge). You really can land a Piet in the length of a tennis court with > the net up. > > Got any pictures of your "new" bird? > > Dan > > > -- > yocum(at)gmail.com > > > On May 28, 2010, at 2:32 PM, ldmill wrote: > >> >> The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for winds >> to be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph with severe >> clear sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from a retired gent, and >> it's finally sitting in my hanger in Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of >> t&g, and sightseeing. >> >> It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open cockpit - >> what a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, come to think of >> it. All tailwheel time to date has been with instructor cause they don't let >> the cub go Solo. Glad I had the Cub time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It >> was interesting to have to keep power in all the way onto the ground. >> Pulling power completely off more than about 2 feet above the ground results >> in brick-like performance. >> >> Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D >> >> Lorin >> >> -------- >> Lorin Miller >> Waiex N81YX >> GN-1 N30PP >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: latex paint
Date: May 28, 2010
Shad just gave me (us) a quick rundown of the procedure within the last couple months. Google 'Yocum Shad pietenpol latex site:matronics.com' and you'll probably find the discussion. MEK is involved. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 28, 2010, at 3:03 PM, r.r.hall(at)cox.net wrote: > One question about Latex paint I haven't seen answered anywahere ia > a procedure or practical way to repair holes or tears. With > other systems it is pretty well spelled out but will fabric glue > stick to the painted fabric and if not how would one go about > removing it? Anyone have suggestions? I would hesitate to paint with > Latex if I didn't have a way to repair it. Rodney Hall > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: latex paint
Date: May 28, 2010
I'll be using Benjamin Moore Aura Exterior (Data Sheet attached). These are low VOC paints who tout a very good cold joint result. One of the ASTM's they are tested to is ASTM 522, which is bending the paint over a 1" dia mandrel (flexible). Also advertised as "self priming," even over aluminum! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 5:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex paint Tim wrote: >was there a test of a black latex basecoat on a latex >finish version? No. I had read somewhere else that it is not necessary to use black paint to block the UV that we're trying to block. In those light wavelengths, any color of house paint will do the job because they are all formulated to cover and protect a house (or anything else we put it on). > Looking at the all-latex finish that is translucent >(upper right quadrant in your test apparatus), should we >conclude that if one of the base latex coats had been black, >that the light (and UV) would not be passing through the fabric? In that photo, you're looking at the back of the test frame. The translucent panel is completely bare fabric. The lower left hand quadrant is the latex-finished panel. >in some Piets finished in standard stuff such as Polybrush, >can we not see translucent light through light colors in >the wings, and thus through two painted fabric layers, both >above and below the ribs? I dunno. Everything I have read about the PolyFiber system is that the coating must be applied through silver to provide UV protection for the fabric. It is the UV that will cause the fabric to deteriorate in sunlight. The color coats are not necessary to protect the fabric from UV but I don't think you can just use Poly-Tone without using Poly-Spray under it to block the UV from getting to the polyester fabric. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: May 28, 2010
Subject: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP CONGRATULATIONS on flying your newly purchased GN-1 Lorin ! (not to mention congrats on your 1st conventional gear solo and 1st open cockpit time. Isn't it great ? Nothing at all like a C-150 or Cherokee. Good that you had plenty of J-3 Cub time and that you were discerning of waiting for the best weather conditions to fly. I congratulate you on your patience. I recall waiting for nearly a WEEK for a fair day to fly my Piet for the first time. It was maddening as the winds were gusty for at least six straight days and there was no way I was going to chance it. Hope you have many, many, more hours of fun, safe, enjoyable flying ! Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP You know, there was a time when I got out of flying - just wasn't as excited about it as I thought I would be when I started. Then I got a ride in a Piet at Brodhead. Now I own a Piet (well, 1/3 of one) and fly every chance I get. Just went up last night for over an hour. Was having so much fun I stayed up too long and ended up rolling it into the hangar moments before it got too dark to see what I was doing. If I lived at the field, I'd probably fly every morning and every evening. You're exactly right - nothing at all like a Cessna or Cherokee. >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" > >...Nothing at all like a C-150 or Cherokee. ... > >Mike C. > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it is how ever a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Builder Needed
From: "Ken too" <klsmith(at)hiwaay.net>
Date: May 28, 2010
Hi, Please help me find some one to finish my Piet - my builder contacted a case of old age & had to stop building The fuselage, tail feathers,ribs, center section & all the metal hardware, has been built - we have a running Corvar engine on a test stand with motor mount Need wings put together - (have spars in box from Aircraft Spruce) Need landing gear ( have wheels & axels) Need gas tank ( have a roil of aluminum) I have a Moni Motorglider kit with engine, or money to trade for building I am located in NW Alabama, just a flyer - not a builder Thanks for any help you can offer Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299209#299209 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP
Date: May 28, 2010
Excellent news, Lorin. Will you be bringing it to Brodhead in a couple of months? Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ldmill Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1 N30PP The weather finally cooperated today. Been waiting for 2 weeks for winds to be under 10 mph - this morning they were gusting to 1mph with severe clear sky. I bought N30PP, a GN-1 with a Piet wing from a retired gent, and it's finally sitting in my hanger in Marshalltown, Iowa. 1.4 hours later of t&g, and sightseeing. It was my first flight in a Piet style plane, or even an open cockpit - what a blast!! Actually, it was my first tailwheel solo, come to think of it. All tailwheel time to date has been with instructor cause they don't let the cub go Solo. Glad I had the Cub time, the Grega flys pretty similar. It was interesting to have to keep power in all the way onto the ground. Pulling power completely off more than about 2 feet above the ground results in brick-like performance. Anyway, just had to blabber, I had WAAAAY too much fun :D Lorin -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299173#299173 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Smoke On!
Date: May 28, 2010
Isn't that the standard smoke system in a Corvair? Sorry - just kidding. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On! One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it is how ever a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long. Shad ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
Date: May 28, 2010
Smoke On!Jack, I love it-Jim lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On! Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren't the only ones who can smoke 'em. I have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being disappointed with the initial results, I have tweaked the installation with a larger oil supply line and now have outstanding smoke. I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the floor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will simply remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of the way. When I want to smoke 'em, I fill the tank with used automatic transmission fluid (cost - nothing, as opposed to the "real smoke oil", Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for $582 a 55 gallon drum, or the baby oil that Chuck favors at an even higher price). Then I reposition the tank on the floor board, stretch the bungee cord around to hold it in place, reconnect the tank's quick disconnect and give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes to prime the smoke oil into the line. The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on the firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to energize the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12" of black rubber hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to =BC" stainless steel tubing that runs to a port welded into the exhaust stack of # 1 cylinder. I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms roll in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and video. I want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission fluid can make. Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
Date: May 28, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Jack, This system sound really cool. A real Rube Goldberg installation....these are the BEST!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 9:38 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On! Now Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer aren=99t the only ones who can smoke =98em. I have added a smoke system to my Pietenpol and after being disappointed with the initial results, I have tweaked the installation wi th a larger oil supply line and now have outstanding smoke. I used a 3.5 gallon outboard motor fuel tank which is positioned on the fl oor between the front rudder pedals. When flying passengers I will simply remove the tank (it is held in place with a bungee cord), disconnect the quick-disconnect on the outboard motor fuel line and get the tank out of the way. When I want to smoke =98em, I fill the tank with used aut omatic transmission fluid (cost =93 nothing, as opposed to the =9Creal smoke oil=9D, Texaco Canopus 13, that Mike Cuy uses for $582 a 55 gallon drum, or the baby oil that Chuck favors at an even highe r price). Then I reposition the tank on the floor board, stretch the bung ee cord around to hold it in place, reconnect the tank=99s quick dis connect and give the primer bulb a couple of squeezes to prime the smoke oil into the line. The system is powered by an automobile windshield washer pump mounted on the firewall, with a momentary push button on the instrument panel to ene rgize the pump. From the pump, I ran a line that uses about 12=9D of black rubber hose (which came with the pump) and then transitions to =C2=BC=9D stainless steel tubing that runs to a port welded into th e exhaust stack of # 1 cylinder. I just did a quick test of it this morning before the predicted storms rol l in, but will do a more extensive test next week, with pictures and video . I want to find out just how much smoke 3.5 gallons of transmission flui d can make. Maybe I need to put the same system on my RV-4 Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 28, 2010
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
But very, very exciting! > >One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it >is how ever a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long. > >Shad -- Jeff Boatright "Now let's think about this..." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Builder Needed
From: "bamabuilder" <willie99(at)otelco.net>
Date: May 28, 2010
I'm in cleveland about 30 miles north of Birmingham. I would be interested in a little more info on your where abouts and such. Message me off list, perhaps we can work something out. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299225#299225 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: latex paint
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 28, 2010
There was an article recently in the April 2010 issue of Kitplanes starting at page 58 that discussed patching when latex paint had been used on Dacron. It was in a regular column called "The Dawn Patrol." They used Stewart Systems Ecobond cement for the repair, with reference to AC 43.13-1A Glidden Evermore latex house paint was the paint, thinned with Floetrol and a little distilled water. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299229#299229 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2010
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: new Piet in Indiana
Good to see another Pietenpol Air Camper ready to represent the marque in authentic fashion! Welcome to the 30's. Larry W. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2010
From: Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Smoke On!
I prefer that much excitement as a spectator rather than crew. Been there. -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> >Sent: May 28, 2010 8:55 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Smoke On! > > >But very, very exciting! > >> >>One way I found to make 92gb smoke is to burn a hole in a piston, it >>is how ever a black, noisy type of smoke, and doesn't last very long. >> >>Shad > > >-- > >Jeff Boatright >"Now let's think about this..." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2010
Subject: Re: latex paint
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
How did they remove the original paint? MEK? rick On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 8:57 PM, GliderMike wrote: > > There was an article recently in the April 2010 issue of Kitplanes > starting at page 58 that discussed patching when latex paint had been used > on Dacron. It was in a regular column called "The Dawn Patrol." They used > Stewart Systems Ecobond cement for the repair, with reference to AC 43.13-1A > Glidden Evermore latex house paint was the paint, thinned with Floetrol and > a little distilled water. > > -------- > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299229#299229 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: latex paint
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 29, 2010
They didn't remove the original paint. They sanded it "with some 220-grit sandpaper......very gently. (italics theirs). Just a few light swipes to take off the gloss." (From April 2010 Kitplanes article: The Dawn Patrol) This is not an ad for Kitplanes, but I have found the magazine fills in some gaps that the EAA magazines don't cover. I wouldn't do without either magazine, and I've not started building yet. Lots of good ideas. You can buy it in hardcopy, or in an e-zine version. I bought both versions, but not sure whether I'll renew the e-zine version. I got the e-zine version, because I'm on their mailing list, and they send out a "teaser" when the e-zine version is available, and one time I wanted to read an article before the hard copy arrived, so I bought the e-zine version. The magazine hard copy usually arrives within a week of when the e-zine does. they charge about the same for the e-zine version as the hard copy version, and I like having the hard copy for reference.[/i] -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299276#299276 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2010
Subject: Re: latex paint
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Sounds too easy, just sand, Ecobond a patch of fabric over the tear and paint. I will try that on my test panel. thanks On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:42 AM, GliderMike wrote: > > They didn't remove the original paint. They sanded it "with some 220-grit > sandpaper......very gently. (italics theirs). Just a few light swipes to > take off the gloss." (From April 2010 Kitplanes article: The Dawn Patrol) > > This is not an ad for Kitplanes, but I have found the magazine fills in > some gaps that the EAA magazines don't cover. I wouldn't do without either > magazine, and I've not started building yet. Lots of good ideas. You can > buy it in hardcopy, or in an e-zine version. I bought both versions, but > not sure whether I'll renew the e-zine version. I got the e-zine version, > because I'm on their mailing list, and they send out a "teaser" when the > e-zine version is available, and one time I wanted to read an article before > the hard copy arrived, so I bought the e-zine version. The magazine hard > copy usually arrives within a week of when the e-zine does. they charge > about the same for the e-zine version as the hard copy version, and I like > having the hard copy for reference.[/i] > > -------- > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299276#299276 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: latex paint
Date: May 29, 2010
Shad says the hard part is feathering in the paint over the patch to the existing paint... -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 29, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Rick Holland wrote: > Sounds too easy, just sand, Ecobond a patch of fabric over the tear > and paint. I will try that on my test panel. > > thanks > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 29, 2010
From: <r.r.hall(at)cox.net>
Subject: latex paint
I am in the process of making up a test panel of my own using Sherwin Williams Super Paint. One question I have though is do most people using this method use the first coat of Poly Brush or let the Latex seal and fill the cloth? I am going to try one side of my test panel with polybrush and the other bare fabric only glued on with polytak. My main purpose is to make sure the fabric and colors won't be damaged by the sun. It seems a very interesting experiment. Rodney Hall ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Date: May 29, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading . Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts ba ck in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at somet hing that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installi ng all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at ti mes it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: May 29, 2010
Dan that is a work of art. She's a beaut. I like the assist step for the rear pit. I've got to do that too. I'm 64 and pretty arthritic in the hips. I can't get in without something. I sure hope you get to fly to Brodhead. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299309#299309 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: May 30, 2010
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From: Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Date: May 29, 2010
Great looking piet you have there!! Wish I could say I'd be at brodhead to see it, but I'm pretty sure my girlie has other ideas since she's due July 25! Congrats once again! Sent from my iPhone On May 29, 2010, at 8:11 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the > end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all > available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. > I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a > little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they > should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a > good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks > like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace > cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, > access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the > weather holds out!! > > So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know > at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come > together!! Brodhead or Bust!! > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Date: May 29, 2010
Beautiful, as expected Dan. Looks like the same paint job Jimmy Dean has on his A powered Pietenpol just south of Sanford NC. I'm looking forard to seeing it in less than two months at Brodhead. Jacck Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Date: May 29, 2010
Hey everyone, I just can't contain my secret anymore - Dan's secret paint scheme is.... yellow and black! Aw, shucks, he beat me to it. And I didn't make a dime from blackmail or selling state secrets. ;-) Beautiful work, Dan. You should be proud. What does she weigh in at? Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net>
Date: May 29, 2010
Wow... that is an awesome looking bird Dan. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299328#299328 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 29, 2010
The big wheels and straight axle really give it that Classic look. Makes one think the airplane was built in the '30's and recently restored. Really beautiful Dan. Good luck with the taxi testing on Monday. I hope the one I build looks that good. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299331#299331 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net>
Date: May 30, 2010
Absolutely beautiful, Dan! I love the color scheme, the big wheels on the Jenny style gear and the beautiful Model A engine! Hope to see you and your plane at Brodhead this year! Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL -------- Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL tailfeathers almost done Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299383#299383 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 30, 2010
Very Nice!!! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299403#299403 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Date: May 30, 2010
It is beautiful!! Of course it would be, because I am painting mine black and yellow too!!!! I had no idea you were, already have all of the dope, so no going back now. I guess we'll start our own Air Force. Can't wait, Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com<mailto:helspersew(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
Date: May 30, 2010
Of course, I will have a prop on mine, so they won't look EXACTLY alike! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com<mailto:helspersew(at)aol.com> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First flight this morning in newly purchased GN-1
N30PP
From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com>
Date: May 30, 2010
HI guys, spent all weekend working on the new purchase. Getting it ready for the annual condition inspection. As Ryan M. says, there are pics on Westcoastpiet.com showing what N30PP looks like - it still looks the same. It was flown up from Florida to Iowa last October (14+ hour flight), parked in a dirt floor hanger, and never touched afterwards. It was seriously filthy with about 10 lbs of dead bugs and dirt on it. After cleanup (6 hours later) in my hanger, it's looking much better. It has a couple of things that need to be take care of (new tire, a fuel line and maybe bungee's), but outside of that, will fly as is till winter when I can address some cosmetic issues. I do intend to get it to Broadhead, but I don't know if it will be this year. It will make it to Blakesburg though. Last year my brother and I drove up to Broadhead for the very first visit, met a bunch of you (Mike C, Greg Cardinal, and some others I can't remember). I'd volunteered to haul equipment in my enclosed trailer, but it was not needed. It was a great first visit and will be repeated! This flight was also the first time ever that I flew a plane that belonged to me, and that I didn't have to write a check to the FBO for $100+ after an hour of relaxation. Cheers! Lorin Miller -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX GN-1 N30PP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299416#299416 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Wing on!!
Date: May 30, 2010
----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN LYSCARS Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Dan.. Congratulations to you on the birth of your Girl! I hope she chug-a-chug-a-chugs and tick-a-tick-a-ticks along for you for a very long time in Blue Skies. What did the little one weigh in at? Happy for you, Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
Date: May 31, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Thanks Alan, and all the rest of you guys that have sent encouragement, I will weigh the airplane today. I am very fearful of this, because I did not move my engine forward as most have done with the model A. Ken Perkins for example, moved his a full 7 inches. That is pretty extreme, but I started asking around and got answers from 1-1/2" , 4", and then Ken's at 7". Unfortunately, I did not discover this, somehow missing the discussions on this list (and in the archives) untill after I had my engine mounted and the cowling made. I think my only hope is that I am pretty light at 150 lbs. I suspect my airplane is heavy, which would not bother me so much, except for this W & B problem. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 10:23 pm Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! ----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN LYSCARS Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Dan.. Congratulations to you on the birth of your Girl! I hope she chug-a-chug-a-chugs and tick-a-tick-a-ticks along for you for a very long time in Blue Skies. What did the little one weigh in at? Happy for you, Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
Date: May 31, 2010
Dan, Even the sainted Frank Pavliga had a 20lb. chunk of lead bolted to the front of the motor mount of Sky Gypsy up until about 7-8 yrs ago, so if you have to, consider it as a short-term fix if there really is a problem. Frankly, I'd prefer that over months of reworking things - you are so close to flying! You'll have all next winter to make a permanent fix if you need to. Beautiful work! Kip Gardner On May 31, 2010, at 7:09 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > > Thanks Alan, and all the rest of you guys that have sent > encouragement, > > I will weigh the airplane today. I am very fearful of this, because > I did not move my engine forward as most have done with the model > A. Ken Perkins for example, moved his a full 7 inches. That is > pretty extreme, but I started asking around and got answers from > 1-1/2" , 4", and then Ken's at 7". Unfortunately, I did not > discover this, somehow missing the discussions on this list (and in > the archives) untill after I had my engine mounted and the cowling > made. I think my only hope is that I am pretty light at 150 lbs. I > suspect my airplane is heavy, which would not bother me so much, > except for this W & B problem. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ALAN LYSCARS <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> > To: Piet List > Sent: Sun, May 30, 2010 10:23 pm > Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ALAN LYSCARS > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 12:19 AM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! > > > Dan.. > > Congratulations to you on the birth of your Girl! I hope she chug- > a-chug-a-chugs and tick-a-tick-a-ticks along for you for a very > long time in Blue Skies. What did the little one weigh in at? > > Happy for you, > > Al Lyscars > Manchester, NH > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: helspersew(at)aol.com > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! > > > Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at > the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all > available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back > on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a > little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they > should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a > good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually > looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the > brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel > lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. > Hope the weather holds out!! > > So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I > know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all > come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
Date: May 31, 2010
"Winds three three zero at zero six." Sounds like a nice day, so far. :-) -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 31, 2010, at 7:09 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > > Thanks Alan, and all the rest of you guys that have sent > encouragement, > > I will weigh the airplane today. I am very fearful of this, because > I did not move my engine forward as most have done with the model > A. Ken Perkins for example, moved his a full 7 inches. That is > pretty extreme, but I started asking around and got answers from > 1-1/2" , 4", and then Ken's at 7". Unfortunately, I did not discover > this, somehow missing the discussions on this list (and in the > archives) untill after I had my engine mounted and the cowling made. > I think my only hope is that I am pretty light at 150 lbs. I suspect > my airplane is heavy, which would not bother me so much, except for > this W & B problem. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!!
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
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Subject: Re: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!!
From: "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
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From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Recommended Reading
Date: May 31, 2010
I'm not much of a Reader, but a friend sent me a book, published in 1927, written by Charles Lindbergh. For all that he was a Flyer, Lindbergh wasn't much of a writer (self expressed), but it is a great recount of the Barnstorming Days. I had no idea that he was a real barnstormer! In less time than it takes most of us to build a Piet, he went from 1st flight to crossing the Atlantic! But it's the barnstorming stories, and the matter-of-fact way that barnstormers accepted bad weather, bad landings, field repairs, etc., that made it interesting. The book is called, "We". Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Recommended Reading
Date: May 31, 2010
Basically the same story, but with the help of his wife, acclaimed author Anne Morrow, was published in his book "The Spirit of St. Louis" written in 1953. I've read both, and liked the second one much better. The movie "The Spirit of St. Louis", made from that book with Jimmy Stewart as Lindbergh is one of my all time favorite movies. Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Recommended Reading I'm not much of a Reader, but a friend sent me a book, published in 1927, written by Charles Lindbergh. For all that he was a Flyer, Lindbergh wasn't much of a writer (self expressed), but it is a great recount of the Barnstorming Days. I had no idea that he was a real barnstormer! In less time than it takes most of us to build a Piet, he went from 1st flight to crossing the Atlantic! But it's the barnstorming stories, and the matter-of-fact way that barnstormers accepted bad weather, bad landings, field repairs, etc., that made it interesting. The book is called, "We". Gary Boothe Cool, CA Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear 18 ribs done ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Recommended Reading
From: "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net>
Date: May 31, 2010
I have also read both of them- they do make you yearn for a simpler time in aviation. -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299465#299465 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
From: "jhodnette" <johnhodnette(at)msn.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
Dan, I am new to the forum, but have not heard of a 7 inch adjustment to the Model A. I have been building my Piet since the middle 80's and moved the mounts forward but can't remember how much. I also lengthened the cabanes so the wing could be moved a little more to adjust the CG. I am sure that yours will balance out nicely. Will you have the prop attached for the W&B? John H. -------- John Hodnette NX899JH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299469#299469 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2010
Subject: Re: Recommended Reading
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Simpler yes except keep the GPS technology around. Am reading the Spirit or St. Louis Lindbergh book now and when he is flying in and out of clouds in the middle of the night over the North Atlantic with a flaky compass, no nav radios of any kind (and 36 hours without sleep) I would be thinking "My kingdom for a GPS satellite and receiver". He said he actually liked to use his tach in those situations to maintain level over the altimeter or vertical speed. rick On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 10:09 AM, echobravo4 wrote: > > I have also read both of them- they do make you yearn for a simpler time in > aviation. > > -------- > Earl Brown > > I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up > where I intended to be. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299465#299465 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2010
From: H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Red Baron VS GN-1 AirCamper
There I was up there searching for the Red Baron and out of nowhere he come s out of a cloud and shot out my number two cylinder.He managed to only tak e out the exhaust port valve.She is leaking now and I don't have enough pow er to get off the ground and go after him.As soon as it's fixed ,I'm going - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L ======= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: West Virginia fly-in
Date: May 31, 2010
Hales Landing picnic is this coming Saturday. Should be 2 Piets flying and another on display, also a project of 2 to look at. We are in the NW corner of WV close to the Ohio river. Write me off list or call Ed for more information. Skip PS Ed flew his Piet solo, for the first time last night, so both Piets can fly at the same time now. skipgadd(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2010
Subject: Model A Piet for sale
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
I found out from a gentleman that owns a Piet we inquired about earlier in the year that his Piet is still for sale. There is a posting on Barnstormers, but he's not on the list as far as I know so I thought I'd throw the link out there. He saids it's getting a condition inspection right now and will be ready to go. Remember, it is a Model A Piet, so if you are 6'2" and 300lbs it's probably not the airplane for you. :P http://2aw.com/pietenpol.htm Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A Piet for sale
From: "jordanlcarr" <jordan.carr.17(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
I saw the Ad on Barnstormers and it seems like the price may be a little high. What do you think? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299482#299482 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Red Baron VS GN-1 AirCamper
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
Harvey, I don't know whether these guys are still doing business or not, but in case you need a cylinder, they might be worth a phone call. I think they are in the general area of Denver (Fort Collins actually) Doesn't look like I can do a link, so you will have to cut and paste. http://www.franklinengines.com -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299504#299504 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
Dan, When I flew my Piet with a Warner 145, the weight was more nose heavy than you will experience, try it on a taxi run, if the girl takes off, which I know it will. your in business. Be sides look where your elevator's position is, no droop. Pieti Lowell . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299507#299507 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2010
Subject: Re: Red Baron VS GN-1 AirCamper
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
The company in Colorado sells the Polish made 220hp Franklin that would go in a Stinson 108, for example, and a smaller 4AC-235. Unfortunately Harvey's engine is most likely a 4AC-176 variant, so the newer production cylinders would not fit his model of engine, if that company is even still in business. They advertise PZL Franklin engines, and PZL shut the Franklin production line down a number of years ago after United Technologies bought/invested in them. Some other group in Poland purchased all the Franklin rights and tooling and was doing business as Franklin Aircraft Engines in Poland......they put together a polished website, but the last news item listed is Oshkosh 2008. Anecdotal evidence from various forums on the net indicates that they may or may not be around anymore. The problem with the smaller 80hp Franklin that Harvey has is that it was never anywhere near as popular as the small Continentals, or was the primary engine for any remotely popular model of airplane. It was an option on many popular light planes from around WWII, but never the engine of choice (to my knowledge). The larger Franklins were popular on the Stinsons and in some helicopters...they found more of a solid niche and that helped them last as a viable engine for as long as they did. Here's an old listing of various shops or people that had parts or provided overhaul services for 150/165/220 Franklins. If they are still around maybe they have parts for the smaller Franklins, or know of a who might. http://cootlog.net/?p=21 <http://cootlog.net/?p=21>Good luck! Ryan On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 8:48 PM, GliderMike wrote: > > Harvey, I don't know whether these guys are still doing business or not, > but in case you need a cylinder, they might be worth a phone call. I think > they are in the general area of Denver (Fort Collins actually) Doesn't look > like I can do a link, so you will have to cut and paste. > http://www.franklinengines.com > > -------- > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299504#299504 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
Date: May 31, 2010
We don't need no stinkin math! Clif > Fill the turtle with Helium [Shocked] Weigh it and do the math and see where the CG is. > Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, > GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 31, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Model A Piet for sale
I would say that's a good price for that particular Pietenpol. I saw it at Brodhead in 2002 and it's very "authentic" if you're a purist....or not. Mainly, there aren't a lot of "unique" changes to the "original" design. I think it's a beauty! Just my opinion of course. By the way, I took a short video of it being propped and taxied to the parking area at Brodhead while I was there. I'll send it to Chris and see if he can put it on the westcoastpiet site. Well, or I'll give it to him when I'm out there next weekend! Anyway, in they video they pull it through 3 times then turn the switch "on" and BARELY move that prop and it starts. It was amazing how little it took to get it started! One piece wing, model A....I don't think it can get much better than that! jm -----Original Message----- >From: jordanlcarr <jordan.carr.17(at)gmail.com> >Sent: May 31, 2010 3:52 PM >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Piet for sale > > >I saw the Ad on Barnstormers and it seems like the price may be a little high. What do you think? > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299482#299482 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Model A Piet for sale
Date: May 31, 2010
This is the same piet in that music video with the song about airplanes and such - the one Dan sent to the list a while back. Nice song - I'm humming it now. Dan -- yocum(at)gmail.com On May 31, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Jim Markle wrote: > > > > I would say that's a good price for that particular Pietenpol. I > saw it at Brodhead in 2002 and it's very "authentic" if you're a > purist....or not. Mainly, there aren't a lot of "unique" changes to > the "original" design. I think it's a beauty! Just my opinion of > course. > > By the way, I took a short video of it being propped and taxied to > the parking area at Brodhead while I was there. I'll send it to > Chris and see if he can put it on the westcoastpiet site. Well, or > I'll give it to him when I'm out there next weekend! > > Anyway, in they video they pull it through 3 times then turn the > switch "on" and BARELY move that prop and it starts. It was amazing > how little it took to get it started! > > One piece wing, model A....I don't think it can get much better than > that! > > jm > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: jordanlcarr <jordan.carr.17(at)gmail.com> >> Sent: May 31, 2010 3:52 PM >> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Model A Piet for sale >> >> > >> >> I saw the Ad on Barnstormers and it seems like the price may be a >> little high. What do you think? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299482#299482 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Model A Piet for sale
From: "jordanlcarr" <jordan.carr.17(at)gmail.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
Hi Dan, I saw the video on youtube recently and I read that the owners daughter sings the music. It is a pretty catchy little song! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299520#299520 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: May 31, 2010
Maybe extend the engine 14" on a heavy engine. MORE BEER :D -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299523#299523 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
Date: Jun 01, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi John, Welcome to the list. I was way too optimistic in my goal of weighing and taxiing by yesterday. I am still attaching parts. There are a lot of turnbuckle/cable adjustments and safety wiring to do. I am getting close though, but still need to install the fuel tank access panel and prop. I put 8 gallons of water in yesterday and that is "good" weight. I have to work starting today so progress will be slow now. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: jhodnette <johnhodnette(at)msn.com> Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 2:56 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem Dan, I am new to the forum, but have not heard of a 7 inch adjustment to the Model A. I have been building my Piet since the middle 80's and moved the mounts forward but can't remember how much. I also lengthened the cabanes so the wing could be moved a little more to adjust the CG. I am sure that yours will balance out nicely. Will you have the prop attached for the W&B? John H. -------- John Hodnette NX899JH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299469#299469 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 01, 2010
Subject: Lindbergh in WWII
Years ago I read The Wartime Journals of Charles Lindbergh which was just f ascinating in how he flew P-38's in the pacific and showed how the range of the P-38 could be extended great ly with high pitch and low rpms. He spent 5 months flying secretly as a civilian in the summer of 1944 and a t age 42 flew 32 combat missions with a few kills. (though he was supposedly just there on technical assign ment and not supposed to fire guns !) [cid:image001.jpg(at)01CB0180.69F64520] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Lindbergh in WWII
From: "bluiewest1" <mseckinger1(at)netzero.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2010
Anybody recognize the guy on the left? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299605#299605 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Crack in Model A Aluminum head
From: "jhodnette" <johnhodnette(at)msn.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2010
I have a very small crack on the top of my Model A aluminum head. Is there a way to fix it or do I have to find another one? Thanks for your input.. -------- John Hodnette NX899JH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299614#299614 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2010
Raymond, I am building a GN-1 also with a Corvair engine. It has been my impression that the GN-1 is tail heavy so I have been concentrating on lightening up the rear as much as possible. Mine is a building and/or rebuilding of someone else's project so I am doing quite a lot of alterations. I would like to know a little about your motor mount (dimensions), I have to remodel my motor mount anyway and perhaps adjust it if necessary. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299619#299619 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 01, 2010
John I'm in about the same boat.I took on the project D.J. Vegh had.it was lightened some around the tail I guess,but he also had stretched the fuselage dimensions some to acommodate a long legged pilot like me.the engine has the flywheel at the rear of the case bolted to the harmonic ballancer and the Corvair manual mentions that causes the engine to have to be farther ahead for clearance i think.anyway if you want to e-mail me off list I could get you some lengths from the firewall to various points.either way-in my worthless opinion-I'll be glad to have the tank up top both because it will allow more head height,be more at the CH so it will move less as fuel is burned off and hold more than the nose tank.on the plus side I'll have a beautiful aluminum nose tank for sale soon if you hear of anybody needing one. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299629#299629 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Wing on!! W & B problem
From: "coxwelljon" <coxwelljon(at)frontiernet.net>
Date: Jun 01, 2010
I will do some measuring and send some dimensions for comparison offline. Jon Coxwell -------- Jon Coxwell GN-1 Builder Recycle and preserve the planet Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299644#299644 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2010
Subject: Re: Lindbergh in WWII
From: Lloyd Smith <lesmith240(at)gmail.com>
That's Medal of Honor winner Tommy McGuire in the photo w/ Lindy. On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > Years ago I read *The Wartime Journals of Charles Lindbergh *which was > just fascinating in how he flew P-38=92s > > in the pacific and showed how the range of the P-38 could be extended > greatly with high pitch and low rpms. > > > He spent 5 months flying secretly as a civilian in the summer of 1944 and > at age 42 flew 32 combat missions > > with a few kills. (though he was supposedly just there on technical > assignment and not supposed to fire guns !) > > > [image: http://p38assn.org/newsletters/February09/lindbergh_mcguire.jpg] > > -- "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -- PJ O'Rourke ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 01, 2010
From: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP <kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol Aircraft Project For Sale
Members of the list: - I have a Wide Body Pietenpol Air camper Project for sale. I have but no oth er option to sell my project at this time. -I am letting go my wide body Pietenpol and everything I purchased for it! Motors, gages, lumbar, everyth ing to complete the project! - This is a 26" inch wide fuse with and added length. Current construction st age: fuse completed; tail completed; -All ribs completed; working on atta ching the wooded gear leg design. I have the old style rims, tires, and rem aining lumbar to complete the wings. - The rudder and stick control system is completed and installed, all gages a re installed for the Corvair engine. Included int he sale are two complete Corvair engines which need to be cleaned and rebuilt. William Wynn guide bo ok included. Basically everything needed to finish plane is included less a fabricated metal parts. Asking price is $4,000.00. I can send photos if- interested in purchasing. - Ken Heide 701-793-3030 kmheidecpo(at)yahoo.com-=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: first really big mistake!
From: "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net>
Date: Jun 02, 2010
While looking at my horizontal stab, which I had already seceretly messed up, I thought it may have looked a little larger than 18". After measuring it sure in deed it was! Gosh darn it! I guess I must be using a bad ruler. Well back to the new jig and it will all be done by tomorrow night. Good thing is I get to play with my new table saw! Wish me luck! This time I'll use the correct ruler. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299767#299767 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: first really big mistake!
I've got one or two of those bogus rulers in my shop as well! I don't know how those continue to leak into the market?- I try to weed them out and r eplace with rulers that are correct, but I keep getting bogus ones from tim e to time. - On the upside, I have lots of kindling wood... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: period between condition inspections
Hi all, Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person who is doing the inspection is telling me something different. I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspection was completed. For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need to get it done by 6/12/10. Can anyone point me to the correct FAR? Thanks, Dan PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy. -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
From: John Hofmann <jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
It is 12 calendar months so you have until the end of June. The wording is probably contained in your operating limitations. It will read something like this: "No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved programs, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation. As part of the condition inspection, cockpit instruments must be appropriately marked and needed placards installed in accordance with 91.9. In addition, system-essential controls must be in good condition, securely mounted, clearly marked, and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records." -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2424 American Lane Madison, WI 53704 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Hi all, > > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person who is doing the inspection is telling me something different. > > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspection was completed. > > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need to get it done by 6/12/10. > > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR? > > Thanks, > Dan > > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy. > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Dan, It's listed in your operating limitations. Most say 12 calendar months, just as you thought. Not a clue as to the FAR number. Perry Rhoads N12939 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 1:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: period between condition inspections > > Hi all, > > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the > correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between > condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person > who is doing the inspection is telling me something different. > > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of inspection > until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P is saying > that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspection was > completed. > > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think > the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need > to get it done by 6/12/10. > > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR? > > Thanks, > Dan > > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the > inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy. > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Subject: period between condition inspections
Dan-- the short answer is you are correct. The last sign off is good until the end of the month of the year following the date of sign off. (that's why smart shoppers try to get a plane signed off near the 1st of the month, just like your medical or flight review) The The long answer is I can't find the FAR just yet which specifies this but know it follows the same scope as an annual inspection for certified aircraft. A condition inspection is required every 12 calendar months on amateur-built aircraft. This check is similar to an annual inspection required by FAR Part 43 on production airplanes. The Phase 2 Operating Limitations specifically refer to FAR Part 43, Appendix D, as the guide to performing this inspection. The inspection can be performed by any licensed A & P mechanic, an FAA Approved Repair Station, or by the builder of the airplane provided the builder obtains a "Repairman's Certificate" from the FAA. FAA Advisory Circular 65-23A is available for information concerning application and privileges of this certificate. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
You can also find the wording in FAA Order 8130-2F, page 165-2, para 22. Th e full doc is here: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A132602 A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument <http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/77A13260 2A4E1F9A862576B3005D253D?OpenDocument>Here's the particular page: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2314248/8130%20165-2.pdf On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, John Hofmann wro te: > jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com> > > It is 12 calendar months so you have until the end of June. The wording i s > probably contained in your operating limitations. It will read something > like this: > > "No person must operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 > calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance > with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43, or other FAA-approved > programs, and was found to be in a condition for safe operation. As part of > the condition inspection, cockpit instruments must be appropriately marke d > and needed placards installed in accordance with =A7 91.9. In addition, > system-essential controls must be in good condition, securely mounted, > clearly marked, and provide for ease of operation. This inspection will b e > recorded in the aircraft maintenance records." > > -john- > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2424 American Lane > Madison, WI 53704 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com > > On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find the > correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time allowed between > condition inspections amateur-built experimental aircraft and the person who > is doing the inspection is telling me something different. > > > > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of > inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my A&P i s > saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the prior inspectio n > was completed. > > > > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I think > the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P says I need to > get it done by 6/12/10. > > > > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR? > > > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the > inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy. > > > > -- > > Dan Yocum > > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
FAR 43.1 (b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft." FAR 91.319 (i) indirectly deals with the condition inspection deal. The FAR's are pretty vague when it comes to Experimentals. If you understand the deal with FAR 91.319 (i) is talking about your operating limitations which were issued when the airworthiness certificate was issued. Phase 1 and Phase 2 of your operating limitations will indicate when the condition inspections are due. I found a Power Point presentation done by Jim Pratt, FAA Aviation Safety Inspector of the Detroit Manufacturing Satellite Inspection Office on the faa.gov website. I don't know how old the presentation is. There was a link to an information site at the end of the presentation, and it doesn't work. I also did a quick search at faa.gov looking for amateur built aircraft condition inspection, and came up with 193 possibilities. Bottom line is your Operating Limitations should tell you how often and how long they are good for on the yearly condition inspections -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299911#299911 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
From: Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
OK, I'm going to take the easy road and play dumb ('cause it's easy for me!). You're the 3rd or 4th person to use the phrase "your Operating Limitations." When it comes to the condition inspection, don't all "Experimental Amateur-Built Aircraft with a Special Airworthiness Certificate(tm)" follow the same limitation? I can understand one Piet having a different gross weight or Vne from another, so the operating limitations are going to be different. But, when it comes to something like this, they all follow the same rule - "a condition inspection within the preceeding 12 calendar months" - right? Thanks for bearing with me, Dan On 06/03/2010 03:10 PM, GliderMike wrote: > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike" > > FAR 43.1 (b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft." FAR 91.319 (i) indirectly deals with the condition inspection deal. The FAR's are pretty vague when it comes to Experimentals. If you understand the deal with FAR 91.319 (i) is talking about your operating limitations which were issued when the airworthiness certificate was issued. Phase 1 and Phase 2 of your operating limitations will indicate when the condition inspections are due. I found a Power Point presentation done by Jim Pratt, FAA Aviation Safety Inspector of the Detroit Manufacturing Satellite Inspection Office on the faa.gov website. I don't know how old the presentation is. There was a link to an information site at the end of the presentation, and it doesn't work. I also did a quick search at faa.gov looking for amateur built aircraft c! > ondition inspection, and came up with 193 possibilities. > > Bottom line is your Operating Limitations should tell you how often and how long they are good for on the yearly condition inspections > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Most likely that will be the case, but it can vary, especially when the airplanes are in different parts of the country, and the builders are using different DAR's or FSDO personnel. One inspector might not like a particular model, and might put more restrictive limitations on a model, than another inspector. It is not supposed to be that way, but........ -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299920#299920 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
I now have my rudder cables installed from the pilot rudder bar back.- Wh en the rudder is in the neutral position, the cables are the most tight. As I go towards full left or full right rudder, the tension decreases.- Whe n I adjust tension at these two positions, (to prevent cable sag) then go b ack to neutral, the tension seems too tight. - I put my cable tensiometer on the cables while at the neutral position, (hi ghest tension) it reads about 2.5. (2.5 what? It does not have any units on it. I assume pounds, although that seems too light.) - Is it normal for the tension to change through the rudder travel? - If someone were to put an actual number for rudder cable tension using a ca ble tensiometer, what would it be? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
They could choose to specify special operating limitations depending upon the aircraft, but AFAIK this is a rare occurence for "normal" homebuilt aircraft. If you don't have any documentation that came with the aircraft specifying any special operating limitations regarding the annual condition inspection, then you should be fine using the standard statement from Order 8130 as your "approved data". Ryan On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > OK, I'm going to take the easy road and play dumb ('cause it's easy for > me!). > > You're the 3rd or 4th person to use the phrase "your Operating > Limitations." When it comes to the condition inspection, don't all > "Experimental Amateur-Built Aircraft with a Special Airworthiness > Certificate(tm)" follow the same limitation? I can understand one Piet > having a different gross weight or Vne from another, so the operating > limitations are going to be different. But, when it comes to something like > this, they all follow the same rule - "a condition inspection within the > preceeding 12 calendar months" - right? > > Thanks for bearing with me, > Dan > > > On 06/03/2010 03:10 PM, GliderMike wrote: > >> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "GliderMike"> > >> >> FAR 43.1 (b) says "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which the >> FAA has issued an experimental certificate, unless the FAA has previously >> issued a different kind of airworthiness certificate for that aircraft." >> FAR 91.319 (i) indirectly deals with the condition inspection deal. The >> FAR's are pretty vague when it comes to Experimentals. If you understand >> the deal with FAR 91.319 (i) is talking about your operating limitations >> which were issued when the airworthiness certificate was issued. Phase 1 >> and Phase 2 of your operating limitations will indicate when the condition >> inspections are due. I found a Power Point presentation done by Jim Pratt, >> FAA Aviation Safety Inspector of the Detroit Manufacturing Satellite >> Inspection Office on the faa.gov website. I don't know how old the >> presentation is. There was a link to an information site at the end of the >> presentation, and it doesn't work. I also did a quick search at faa.govlooking for amateur built aircraft >> > > c! > >> ondition inspection, and came up with 193 possibilities. >> >> Bottom line is your Operating Limitations should tell you how often and >> how long they are good for on the yearly condition inspections >> >> > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: period between condition inspections
Date: Jun 03, 2010
I just had my condition inspection done today, 6/3/2010. My last insp. was 5/1/2009. He said it should be done by the end of the month of the previous yr. In my case , I just couldn't fly on Jun1st or 2nd. On Jun 3, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > Hi all, > > Apparently my google kung-fu is weak, today. I can't seem to find > the correct verbiage in the FARs regarding the period of time > allowed between condition inspections amateur-built experimental > aircraft and the person who is doing the inspection is telling me > something different. > > I *think* that a condition inspection is valid from the time of > inspection until the end of the month in the following year, but my > A&P is saying that it ends exactly 1 year, to the day, after the > prior inspection was completed. > > For example, the last inspection on N8031 was done on 6/12/09. I > think the inspection is valid until the end of June, 2010. My A&P > says I need to get it done by 6/12/10. > > Can anyone point me to the correct FAR? > > Thanks, > Dan > > PS. It's sort-of a moot point since I've got him scheduled to do the > inspection on 6/8, but this is driving me crazy. > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
Date: Jun 04, 2010
Michael, I have just had my control cables adjusted (on a Zodiac 601XL) and the guy doing it used a similar tensiometer. He had a conversion chart to convert the reading to pounds dependant on cable size. I can't say what the 2.5 means but it seems light. Don't forget, the distance from the center of the rudder bar to the cable attach point is not the same as the rudder control horn distance. There will be some difference in the geometry and therefore tension. I made mine "about right" when the rudder was straight. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Friday, 4 June 2010 8:08 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rudder cable tension changes in motion I now have my rudder cables installed from the pilot rudder bar back. When the rudder is in the neutral position, the cables are the most tight. As I go towards full left or full right rudder, the tension decreases. When I adjust tension at these two positions, (to prevent cable sag) then go back to neutral, the tension seems too tight. I put my cable tensiometer on the cables while at the neutral position, (highest tension) it reads about 2.5. (2.5 what? It does not have any units on it. I assume pounds, although that seems too light.) Is it normal for the tension to change through the rudder travel? If someone were to put an actual number for rudder cable tension using a cable tensiometer, what would it be? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
Go to: http://www.optimanufacturing.com/Documents/SOP-TN-001%20T5%20Manual%20Rev10.pdf where you will find a manual for your tensionmeter. Section VI in the manual tells you how to check and/or calibrate your unit. If you bought the meter new, it should have come with a table that indicates the conversions depending on which riser you have in place. It uses different risers for different size cables. You have a T5 version, but I didn't notice which version you had. They have pictures of both versions, so you will be able to know which chart to use. The dial on the T5 is not a "direct reading" dial. You must look up the reading in a chart to determine actual tension. The way the T5 is set up makes it more versatile than a direct reading tensionmeter. i have used the T6-8000, and found it to be a quality tool. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299941#299941 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: Wing on!!
Date: Jun 03, 2010
John, Buzz me with your particulars: alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net And Jim Markel- in case you're loitering- my door's open too! Al ----- Original Message ----- From: John Recine To: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Alan, I was just in Manchester yesterday Contact me off list as I will be back in the area this summer John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: "ALAN LYSCARS" <alyscars(at)myfairpoint.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 23:23:50 -0400 To: Piet List Subject: Fw: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! ----- Original Message ----- From: ALAN LYSCARS To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Dan.. Congratulations to you on the birth of your Girl! I hope she chug-a-chug-a-chugs and tick-a-tick-a-ticks along for you for a very long time in Blue Skies. What did the little one weigh in at? Happy for you, Al Lyscars Manchester, NH ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew(at)aol.com To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 8:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing on!! Secrets revealed!!! Well boys, after 10 years, I can say that I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. This afternoon, I put the call out for all available hands in the neighborhood to help me put the wing back on. I got ten people to help me, and it was a piece of cake after a little fudging and persuading. Got all the bolts back in like they should be and the wing and struts back in place. Boy is it ever a good feeling to stand back and look at something that actually looks like an airplane. Tomorrow I am on to re-installing all the brace cables, ailerons, aileron control cables, fuel tank, fuel lines, access panels, etc. With any luck I want to taxi on Monday. Hope the weather holds out!! So keep on plugging and slugging through all the small stuff. I know at times it seems never ending, but at some point it will all come together!! Brodhead or Bust!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. =B7=9B~=89=ED=B2,=DE=AE=E9=A2=A2=B7=9A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 03, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
That was the conclusion I came to watching the mechanics of the rudder syst em as it moved from full right to full left over and over.- I'll see if I can compare to Mike Cuy's plane's feel. - Glidermike-mentioned a conversion table for my tensiometer...I do have on e that came with the unit.- I was using the #1 riser on my T5-2002-104-00 tensiometer. The lowest rating on my sheet is 30 lbs. at number 9 on the m eter for 3/32 cable. I would guess my 2.5 meter-reading-is about-7 po unds. - Anyone know a ball park tension for Pietenpol rudder cables? (Just curious. ) - - - ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
From: "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Jun 03, 2010
I wouldn't want to guess rudder tension on a Piet, but for what its worth, some of the later Cessna 182's before 1963, and pre-1963 185's call for 20 to 40 pounds of tension on the rudders. The manual I have access to doesn't give the tension for the rest of the single engine tri-gear airplanes. They list aileron tension as 40 pounds on the 150 to 185 series. If I remember correctly, those airplanes use 1/8 inch cable, rather than 3/32 inch cable. I would think 40 pounds would be too high with 3/32 inch cable, but I would also think 7 pounds might be a little light. You want enough tension on the cable so it doesn't have slack in it when it is at the lightest tension point, or when it is hot out, so it doesn't pop out of the pulleys. You want the tension light enough so it doesn't wear the pulleys. If the pulleys are slightly mis-aligned, you may not notice the misalignment until they show wear. If it were my airplane, I would probably go with 15 to 20 pounds of cable tension. It is not my airplane, so I would say go with what you think is good. Maybe some of the folks that have been flying their airplanes a while will have some input. -------- Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings, GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=299979#299979 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Final reminder - OH Wings & Wheels Fly-In this weekend
Date: Jun 04, 2010
OK, I'm going to annoy everybody one last time with this announcement - come on by, it's going to be a great Fly-In! If you are working on a Corvair conversion, bring your case for Roy to spec. AA 82 is having it's 4th Annual "WINGS AND WHEELS FLY-IN" on Saturday and Sunday, June 5 & 6th at Barber Airport (2D1). The field is located approximately three miles north of Alliance, Ohio on State Route 225. There will be aircraft with automotive and alternative engines - CORVAIRS AND VOLKSWAGENS on display. Ther will be a pancake breakfast on Saturday and Sunday from 7 till 11 AM with lunch on Saturday from noon till 2 PM. This event is open to the public. There will be homebuilt aircraft ( KR-2S's, Pietenpols, an Afford-a- Plane), PRA #19 (Rotorcraft Chapter) will have trikes and a demonstrator, and Vintage and Antique aircraft (Waco 9, Fleet, Taylorcrafts) on the field. There will be a fleet of some nicely restored Corvair cars on display. There will be several Corvair engines and a "Roy's Garage" Fifth Bearing on display for those who are interested in using a Corvair in their project. Roy Szarafinski of Roy's Garage will be present to answer questions about his bearing and will gladly check your engine cases for proper tolerances before you start an engine rebuild. The fly-in hours will be Saturday... 7 AM - 4 PM and Sunday... 7 AM - 2 PM. For more information, contact Ron Willett @ 330-314-0075 or Pete Klapp @ 330-388-2074, and Forrest Barber (FBO) at WWW.BARBERAIRCRAFT.COM. We can provide lodging for those who would be flying in for our event. Hope to see many KRnet faces present at our fly-in. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: W & B with prop on NX929DH
Date: Jun 04, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Last night I finally had a chance to put the prop on and do a quicky weigh ing. With me as pilot, the CG is too far aft of range by only .3". I can fix this with just a little weight up front. I am going to calculate how much I will need up there in order for my 170 lb. son to fly it, then put that lead up front and leave it till next winter. Man does this airplane ever look cool with that scimitar prop!!!! If I do say so myself. Photos to come in a few days!!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2010
From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: W & B with prop on NX929DH
Can't you just move your wing back an inch or so? I waited until the airplane was all assembled to make my final front braces. My initial W/B was a lot worse than yours. Can't wait to see it at Brodhead! Ben Charvet On 6/4/2010 7:15 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: > Last night I finally had a chance to put the prop on and do a quicky > weighing. With me as pilot, the CG is too far aft of range by only > .3". I can fix this with just a little weight up front. I am going to > calculate how much I will need up there in order for my 170 lb. son to > fly it, then put that lead up front and leave it till next winter. Man > does this airplane ever look cool with that scimitar prop!!!! If I do > say so myself. Photos to come in a few days!!! > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL. > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2010
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder cable tension changes in motion
Thanks Glider. - I figured there were no hard numbers on Pietenpol cable tensions, but I tho ught I would ask just in case someone took the time to put a meter on their s as reference.- I'll go ahead and tension as needed for the right balanc e between no sag and too tight. (common sense) - It's all temporary anyway for now...it all comes apart for varnish/fabric, etc. - - ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: W & B with prop on NX929DH
Date: Jun 04, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi Ben, Being a purist, I refuse to move my cabanes off of perfect vertical. I rea lly like the Piet look with the cabanes straight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 7:41 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W & B with prop on NX929DH Can't you just move your wing back an inch or so? I waited until the airp lane was all assembled to make my final front braces. My initial W/B was a lot worse than yours. Can't wait to see it at Brodhead! Ben Charvet On 6/4/2010 7:15 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: Last night I finally had a chance to put the prop on and do a quicky weigh ing. With me as pilot, the CG is too far aft of range by only .3". I can fix this with just a little weight up front. I am going to calculate how much I will need up there in order for my 170 lb. son to fly it, then put that lead up front and leave it till next winter. Man does this airplane ever look cool with that scimitar prop!!!! If I do say so myself. Photos to come in a few days!!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 04, 2010
From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: W & B with prop on NX929DH
Hi Dan, congratulations! I'll be curious, how much does-your Piet-weigh? - Since-we both are-purists, we should know that the F&GM plans says "The center struts lean back one-half inch", but you have the BHP lost papers, so-don't listen to me :-) Saludos! - Santiago=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: W & B with prop on NX929DH
Date: Jun 04, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Oh my gosh........you mean to tell me, in my efforts for purity, I let this one get past me??? What do the 1933 plans say? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: santiago morete <moretesantiago(at)yahoo.com.ar> Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 11:32 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: W & B with prop on NX929DH Hi Dan, congratulations! I'll be curious, how much does your Piet weigh? Since we both are purists, we should know that the F&GM plans says "The ce nter struts lean back one-half inch", but you have the BHP lost papers, so don't listen to me :-) Saludos! Santiago ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: W & B with prop on NX929DH
Date: Jun 04, 2010
Do you think Bernard built every one of his "pure" Pietenpols (who could make a purer one them him?) with the cabanes vertical? I seriously doubt it. Jack "Impure Thoughts" Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W & B with prop on NX929DH Hi Ben, Being a purist, I refuse to move my cabanes off of perfect vertical. I really like the Piet look with the cabanes straight. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Fri, Jun 4, 2010 7:41 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: W & B with prop on NX929DH Can't you just move your wing back an inch or so? I waited until the airplane was all assembled to make my final front braces. My initial W/B was a lot worse than yours. Can't wait to see it at Brodhead! Ben Charvet On 6/4/2010 7:15 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote: Last night I finally had a chance to put the prop on and do a quicky weighing. With me as pilot, the CG is too far aft of range by only .3". I can fix this with just a little weight up front. I am going to calculate how much I will need up there in order for my 170 lb. son to fly it, then put that lead up front and leave it till next winter. Man does this airplane ever look cool with that scimitar prop!!!! If I do say so myself. Photos to come in a few days!!! Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution =================================== t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Official weight NX929DH
Date: Jun 06, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Pieters, Since the list is quiet, I'll chime in with a little news. Ryan and Jess Mueller stopped by yesterday to visit and see the Piet. They helped me (t hank you guys) roll it up on the scales and record the weight. 717 lbs, wh ich was about where I expected it to be. Also, I did a little cifering and if my math is correct, I don't even need any nose weight if the pilot is 170 lbs. I will double check this today. On my previous figuring, I forgo t that I had changed the position of the tailwheel (moved it forward a few inches when I made it steerable). So today I need to attach the jury struts, and locate and drill holes in the fuel tank access panel. Then I want to roll her outside and run the A again. Is it going to rain today? I better check. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Official weight NX929DH
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Good news, Dan. I'm looking forward to seeing it at Brodhead. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 6:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official weight NX929DH Pieters, Since the list is quiet, I'll chime in with a little news. Ryan and Jess Mueller stopped by yesterday to visit and see the Piet. They helped me (thank you guys) roll it up on the scales and record the weight. 717 lbs, which was about where I expected it to be. Also, I did a little cifering and if my math is correct, I don't even need any nose weight if the pilot is 170 lbs. I will double check this today. On my previous figuring, I forgot that I had changed the position of the tailwheel (moved it forward a few inches when I made it steerable). So today I need to attach the jury struts, and locate and drill holes in the fuel tank access panel. Then I want to roll her outside and run the A again. Is it going to rain today? I better check. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Official weight NX929DH
From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net>
Date: Jun 06, 2010
The weight is great news. I would settle for 717 right now. I fear mine will be heavier. The O-235 I am using has a published weight of 240! When you gonna post a pic with the prop on? -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs and tailfeathers done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300207#300207 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: turtle deck rear seat
From: "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2010
I'm working on my rear seat and turtle back and I'm having a hard time making the numbers work. The builders manual says 12" radius, but to get the numbers to work, I'm at 14". It looks low. My question is, is there any negative consequences to raising it an inch and a half? It looks better to me a little higher, and Ive seen some really raised. Also, I have all of my seat parts cut and I want to install them, but I'm wondering about seat belt and shoulder harness locations. Front seat lap belt is no problem, and I've found the discussions on the front seat and rear seat shoulder harnesses, but I haven't found any pictures of where the slots for the rear seat lap belt is located. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300229#300229 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: turtle deck rear seat
From: "jordanlcarr" <jordan.carr.17(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2010
It would be ok to raise the the turtledeck an inch and a half. The piet I worked with had the deck raised at least that much and it flies great with no issues. In my opinion, it looks a lot better raised. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300251#300251 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: turtle deck rear seat
Date: Jun 06, 2010
I'm raising mine 2" or 2-1/2" so that the shoulder harness will be positioned correctly. Also, this will make the bay directly behind the seat big enough to hold a light sleeping bag - I would not put anything heavier behind the seat as baggage, but I figure a couple of pounds of a bulky item like that would be ok. Kip Gardner On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:27 PM, jordanlcarr wrote: > 17(at)gmail.com> > > It would be ok to raise the the turtledeck an inch and a half. The > piet I worked with had the deck raised at least that much and it > flies great with no issues. In my opinion, it looks a lot better > raised. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300251#300251 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Subject: Re: turtle deck rear seat
From: Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com>
Many people have raised both their front and rear turtle decks (including me) have not heard of a problem with doing it (other than a tiny bit of extra weight). I mounted the rear seat belt to a 1"x1"x 3" block of spruce glued and gusseted to the top of the bottom longerons behind the seat. Cut a couple vertical slots on either side of the seat back for the belts to exit. One thing nice about telling someone how you did your seat-belts on a Pietenpol is that no Pietenpol snob is going to reply: "BUILD IT TO THE PLANS, YOU MORON" .....cause it ain't in the plans. HA! rick On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 12:27 PM, schuerrman wrote: > > I'm working on my rear seat and turtle back and I'm having a hard time > making the numbers work. The builders manual says 12" radius, but to get > the numbers to work, I'm at 14". It looks low. My question is, is there > any negative consequences to raising it an inch and a half? It looks better > to me a little higher, and Ive seen some really raised. > > Also, I have all of my seat parts cut and I want to install them, but I'm > wondering about seat belt and shoulder harness locations. Front seat lap > belt is no problem, and I've found the discussions on the front seat and > rear seat shoulder harnesses, but I haven't found any pictures of where the > slots for the rear seat lap belt is located. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300229#300229 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering
Date: Jun 06, 2010
We just completed the Really First Official West Coast Pietenpol Gathering at Frazier Lake Skypark, Ca! (And, Yes, there really is a "Frazier Lake" seaplane base for all you amphib Pietenpolers!). This event was held in unison with Frazier Lake's monthly Display Day, making it possible to see and visit with airplanes and owners of some really cool stuff. We actually had 3 flying Piets, 2 of which all of you Brodheaders have seen (#.1554, Pietenpols as far as you can see.). Special thanks to Mike Groah for helping to organize the event, and extra special thanks to Charlie Miller and his wonderful wife and family for hosting EVERYTHING! Personally great for me, was to have my son Ryan go up with Charlie in Ryan's first open cockpit ride (#...1108). Ryan is the good looking guy on the right. He is smiling for obvious reasons. Charlie is the dashing pilot on the left. Charlie is smiling because he just saved, with masterful piloting skills, his beautiful Pietenpol from a near catastrophic landing from a x-wind gust. To our great enjoyment, and making it a truly sanctioned Pietenpol event, we were blessed with the ubiquitous JIM MARKEL!! Since WE are neophytes when it comes to Piet gatherings, and our conversations sometimes stray from the point of the whole affair, Jim has the notorious special talent of steering the conversation back to Pietenpols, and how these little airplanes add to the meaning of life. I'm sure there is no connection, but after Jim had left, on Sunday morning, one of the local hanger owners wandered over to our camping area and asked if anyone had seen his air compressor.seems it was 'lost.' I assured him that these kinds of events are common at Piet gatherings, and that I was sure that the air compressor wasn't really 'lost'.. Sorry, I did a poor job of photo essaying everything, and am hoping some of my fellow builders did a better job! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (19 ribs down.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net>
Subject: turtle deck rear seat
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Shuerrman, "Seat Belt Anchor RH" shows, from underneath, how I anchored my lap belts. I have since lengthened the slot to let the belt pivot forward. The rest of the pics show how the shoulder harness attaches. Keep in mind, this only my theory and none of this has been crash-tested... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (18 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of schuerrman Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: turtle deck rear seat I'm working on my rear seat and turtle back and I'm having a hard time making the numbers work. The builders manual says 12" radius, but to get the numbers to work, I'm at 14". It looks low. My question is, is there any negative consequences to raising it an inch and a half? It looks better to me a little higher, and Ive seen some really raised. Also, I have all of my seat parts cut and I want to install them, but I'm wondering about seat belt and shoulder harness locations. Front seat lap belt is no problem, and I've found the discussions on the front seat and rear seat shoulder harnesses, but I haven't found any pictures of where the slots for the rear seat lap belt is located. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300229#300229 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: turtle deck rear seat
From: "jordanlcarr" <jordan.carr.17(at)gmail.com>
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Your design looks really good. From what I can see it should be sturdy enough. The fittings that surround the seatbelts (Brass?) look really sharp and will be a nice touch. Keep up the good work! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300282#300282 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2010
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering
I can only imagine what an air compressor would have cost as "extra baggage" on my return flight! HA! There were 10 or 12 wonderful old Cubs on the field! They were in almost every hangar. It was great. Also saw one of only two remaining Phillips (designed by Henry Phillips who also designed the Phillips Screw head in 1934!) Airplanes. Pretty neat. Almost as special as the 3 Air Campers in the field! Pietenpols and the meaning of life? Don't get me started!! Really a great time! jm -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Jun 6, 2010 6:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering We just completed the Really First Official West Coast Pietenpol Gathering at Frazier Lake Skypark, Ca! (And, Yes, there really is a Frazier Lake seaplane base for all you amphib Pietenpolers!). This event was held in unison with Frazier Lakes monthly Display Day, making it possible to see and visit with airplanes and owners of some really cool stuff. We actually had 3 flying Piets, 2 of which all of you Brodheaders have seen (#1554, Pietenpols as far as you can see). Special thanks to Mike Groah for helping to organize the event, and extra special thanks to Charlie Miller and his wonderful wife and family for hosting EVERYTHING! Personally great for me, was to have my son Ryan go up with Charlie in Ryans first open cockpit ride (#...1108). Ryan is the good looking guy on the right. He is smiling for obvious reasons. Charlie is the dashing pilot on the left. Charlie is smiling because he just saved, with masterful piloting skills, his beautiful Pietenpol from a near catastrophic landing from a x-wind gust. To our great enjoyment, and making it a truly sanctioned Pietenpol event, we were blessed with the ubiquitous JIM MARKEL!! Since WE are neophytes when it comes to Piet gatherings, and our conversations sometimes stray from the point of the whole affair, Jim has the notorious special talent of steering the conversation back to Pietenpols, and how these little airplanes add to the meaning of life Im sure there is no connection, but after Jim had left, on Sunday morning, one of the local hanger owners wandered over to our camping area and asked if anyone had seen his air compressorseems it was lost. I assured him that these kinds of events are common at Piet gatherings, and that I was sure that the air compressor wasnt really lost. Sorry, I did a poor job of photo essaying everything, and am hoping some of my fellow builders did a better job! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (19 ribs down) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 06, 2010
Subject: Re: West Coast Pietenpol Gathering
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com>
It was indeed a grand day at Frazier Lake with all of the West Coast Pieters! I was able to meet some of the folks that were "just names on a list", and see some of the folks that have met over the last year (Gary Booth, Mike an d Vic Groah, Mike Hardaway). It was a pleasure to actually see a Piet fly (always new they did, just hadn't seen one in the air). I uploaded the pictures of the event I took to an unlisted Google album, so browse over an have a look at the fun! http://picasaweb.google.com/RobertsChristmas2007/WestCoastPietGatheringJune 52010?authkey=Gv1sRgCMWf8fffsvW-bg&feat=directlink Many thanks to Charlie and his wife for all of the work involved in making the day a great event! Looking forward to many more of these :o) Mark On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > We just completed the *Really First Official West Coast Pietenpol > Gathering* at Frazier Lake Skypark, Ca! (And, Yes, there really is a > =93Frazier Lake=94 seaplane base for all you amphib Pietenpolers!). This event > was held in unison with Frazier Lake=92s monthly Display Day, making it > possible to see and visit with airplanes and owners of some really cool > stuff. > > > We actually had 3 flying Piets, 2 of which all of you Brodheaders have se en > (#=851554, Pietenpols as far as you can see=85). > > > Special thanks to Mike Groah for helping to organize the event, and extra > special thanks to Charlie Miller and his wonderful wife and family for > hosting EVERYTHING! > > > Personally great for me, was to have my son Ryan go up with Charlie in > Ryan=92s first open cockpit ride (#...1108). Ryan is the good looking guy on > the right. He is smiling for obvious reasons. Charlie is the dashing pilo t > on the left. Charlie is smiling because he just saved, with masterful > piloting skills, his beautiful Pietenpol from a near catastrophic landing > from a x-wind gust. > > > To our great enjoyment, and making it a truly sanctioned Pietenpol event, > we were blessed with the ubiquitous JIM MARKEL!! Since WE are neophytes w hen > it comes to Piet gatherings, and our conversations sometimes stray from t he > point of the whole affair, Jim has the notorious special talent of > steering the conversation back to Pietenpols, and how these little airpla nes > add to the meaning of life=85 > > > I=92m sure there is no connection, but after Jim had left, on Sunday morn ing, > one of the local hanger owners wandered over to our camping area and aske d > if anyone had seen his air compressor=85seems it was =91lost.=92 I assure d him > that these kinds of events are common at Piet gatherings, and that I was > sure that the air compressor wasn=92t really =91lost=92=85. > > > Sorry, I did a poor job of photo essaying everything, and am hoping some of > my fellow builders did a better job! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (19 ribs down=85) > > -- Mark Roberts California Laser Etch www.california-laser.com 888-882-5015 888-882-5016 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Official weight NX929DH
Date: Jun 07, 2010
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Jerry, I tried to roll her out for pictures and run-up yesterday, and the storm clouds were rolling in. Had to put all the airplanes away. I can't take a chance, especially at this stage. Worked all day on her, re-strung shock cords because the axles were saggin g. Fabricated and installed on/off/fuel capacity placard on the fuel valve . Fabricated and installed baggage capacity placard (5 lbs). Applied red lines to water temp and airspeed gauges. Drilled holes in fuel tank acces s panel and installed. Re-torqued cylinder head in Model A (do those bolts stretch? seemed to loosen up from 1-1/2 years ago). Only a couple of thi ngs left to do, put red line on tach, install throttle "open-closed" marki ngs, install ELT. The rest is just paperwork for the FAA. I need to get together some kind of "builder's log". I have a stack of receipts, and ph otos. This is going to have to do. I am going to call the FAA today to see what I have to do to get an inspection scheduled. Can't believe I am runn ing out of things "to do". What markings do I have to put on/near fuel tan k filler? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Dotson <jdotson(at)erec.net> Sent: Sun, Jun 6, 2010 10:07 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Official weight NX929DH The weight is great news. I would settle for 717 right now. I fear mine wi ll be eavier. The O-235 I am using has a published weight of 240! When you gonna post pic with the prop on? --------


May 18, 2010 - June 07, 2010

Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jf