Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jh
June 20, 2010 - June 28, 2010
trouble actuating or holding the brakes on 41CC but then
again, with the smaller diameter tires it's easier to
hold it from rolling than with the motorcycle-style ones.
For taxiing, I would suggest starting out on a large, open
parking apron or taxiway. It's easier to learn to judge
your brakes and steering if there aren't bumps and if the
rolling surface is even and smooth. You can get a good
feel for ground handling and the effects of wind that way.
However, for actuallanding and taking off, grass is king!
I love it!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | CG calculations on a GN-1 |
Raymond asked:
>When I brought it up a while back somebody posted that
>the plans have a mistake in them for calculating weight
>and balance. Can someone tell me what it is?
I don't know what others may have found in the plans, but
here are my comments on them. I'm looking at the Grega
GN-1 weight and balance page dated 9-17-65, data for N4705G.
In that information, I find a math error when calculating
the forward and rearward CG extremes, in that the weights
add up to 949 lbs. but are shown as 959 lbs., which would
not be a big deal except that there is a very puzzling
and unconventional way of stating the CG. Convention is
that all moments are taken relative to the datum, which is
the leading edge of the wing, but Grega says that the empty
CG is relative to the main wheel weighing point, and then
continues by saying that the empty CG relative to the datum
is the empty CG relative to the main wheel weighing point
plus the moment arm of the main wheels. Not sure I follow
that.
The main problem that I see with the calculation is that the
empty CG is not correct. I get an empty CG of 19.05" using
conventional calculation methods. This is quite tail-heavy,
considering that my airplane's empty CG is 11.36" aft of
datum.
Using the empty CG that I get using the weights and moment
arms that Grega listed for his airplane, running through the
calcs for forward and rearward CG extremes on his calculation
page, I get 23.83" aft of datum for the forward loading case
and 23.34" aft of datum for the aft loading case (no, I don't
have those backwards... the CG actually improves in his aft
loading case). Both of those numbers are well outside of
Grega's specified CG range of 18.1 to 20.7" aft of datum, and
well outside of recognized ranges of 25 to 33% of wing chord
or 15" to 20" aft of leading edge. Quite tail heavy.
I compared a few numbers between my airplane and Grega's to
see where the differences might be, even though my airplane
has the wing cabanes shifted aft about 4" from vertical. The
center of my main axles are 7" aft of wing LE while Grega's
are 7.5"; oil is 24" forward while Grega's is 23"; fuel is 6"
while Grega's is 1.5" forward; pilot position is identical at
23" aft; passenger is 21" aft in my airplane and 24" aft in
Grega's; but the big difference is that the center of my
tailwheel axle is 155.5" aft of wing LE while Grega's is more
than a foot farther aft, at 169". With an empty loading on
my tailwheel of only 20 lbs. compared to Grega's 52 lbs., the
difference is quite telling.
So... I'm not sure how Grega computes his aircraft's CG using
a moment arm for the empty airplane of the "aerodynamic center
of airfoil" instead of the aircraft's empty CG aft of datum,
but that's how he comes up with an empty CG of 19.5", a forward
loaded CG of 18.9" and a rearward loaded CG of 20.1". Perhaps
those of you who fly GN-1s can shed some light on your actual
balance numbers?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC... empty weight 624 lbs., no oil
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello all,
Today I went back and re-safetied all the stuff on the carb that I had off
yesterday. Got my cowling pieces all back into place. Had to mark my fron
t throttle- open, closed. Glued on the obligatory leather patches to the
LE of the horizontal stab where the cables rub. I have been looking forwa
rd to that part for ten years. You really know you have built a Pietenpol
Aircamper when you get to that part. You guys that have deviated from pla
ns to avoid this....you are missing something...those have to be there oth
erwise its really not a Piet. :O)
After I was satisfied with all that, I took her out for more taxiing. Boy
she really starts easy if you follow the procedure. 1/2 shot of prime, pu
ll through mags off 5 blades, mags hot and it pops right off. Taxied for
about 45 min, and when I got a little guts, gave her a little gun on the
grass and raised the tail. I really had to hold myself back, she really
wanted to FLY!!!.
So tomorrow is the inspection. I will give a full report before the end of
the day.
Thanks for listening,
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering |
Skipp, Did you get the email with photos of the piet gathering? I was wondering
if you could post them on the list, my computer is still not fixed, or I would
do it myself. I would love to see any photos that any of you in attendance
might have taken. Post them on the list or email me. Next week it is the big
WACO fly-in at Wynkoop Airport in Mount Vernon. The last I heard, Brian Wynkoop
said it was ok for the piets to fly in. Last year there was a waco only
fly in rule, notam, or something.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Holmes" <jholmes8(at)centurylink.net> |
| Subject: | Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering |
Shad,
I got a few of you and Skip (Sorry I didn't get any of Ed's piet). Wish I
could have stayed longer, I hate it when work gets in the way of a good
time. I compressed these for e-mail. I have a few others as well so if you
want the full size version or all of the ones I took, just let me know and I
will send them to your e-mail address.
Thanks for hosting,
Jason Holmes
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skipp, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering
Skipp, Did you get the email with photos of the piet gathering? I was
wondering if you could post them on the list, my computer is still not
fixed, or I would do it myself. I would love to see any photos that any of
you in attendance might have taken. Post them on the list or email me.
Next week it is the big WACO fly-in at Wynkoop Airport in Mount Vernon. The
last I heard, Brian Wynkoop said it was ok for the piets to fly in. Last
year there was a waco only fly in rule, notam, or something.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report |
That's fantastic news Dan!
I hope Jim gives you the all clear and that the weather cooperates,
tomorrow. Today would have been perfect with these 3 mph winds.
Be careful!
Dan
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jun 20, 2010, at 5:41 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Today I went back and re-safetied all the stuff on the carb that I
> had off yesterday. Got my cowling pieces all back into place. Had to
> mark my front throttle- open, closed. Glued on the obligatory
> leather patches to the LE of the horizontal stab where the cables
> rub. I have been looking forward to that part for ten years. You
> really know you have built a Pietenpol Aircamper when you get to
> that part. You guys that have deviated from plans to avoid
> this....you are missing something...those have to be there otherwise
> its really not a Piet. :O)
>
> After I was satisfied with all that, I took her out for more
> taxiing. Boy she really starts easy if you follow the procedure. 1/2
> shot of prime, pull through mags off 5 blades, mags hot and it pops
> right off. Taxied for about 45 min, and when I got a little guts,
> gave her a little gun on the grass and raised the tail. I really had
> to hold myself back, she really wanted to FLY!!!.
>
> So tomorrow is the inspection. I will give a full report before the
> end of the day.
>
> Thanks for listening,
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More taxiing, tail lift-off, NX929DH report |
| From: | "taildrags" <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
Sounds like you're ready to take to the air. It won't be long now!
PS, I added the obligatory leather patches to the leading edges of my horizontal
stabilizer after I had been flying it quite some time. One day while driving
to the airport I saw an old black shoe laying by the side of the road. I stopped
to check it out and it was leather and had some sections that were still
in very good condition so I picked it up and cut some nice patches out of it
with my pinking shears and glued them to the leading edges with contact cement
right where the cables had been touching. Worked great and looks very professional
;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
San Antonio, TX
Air Camper NX41CC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301857#301857
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club tonight... |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Okay, I spent almost 2 hours last evening doing nothing but full stop landings.
Lesson learned for me - I work best doing wheel landings on concrete keeping
a tad bit of throttle on till tires are on the ground. Once the tail drops to
the ground - no rudder authority, only the tailwheel and brakes to keep her straight.
Amazing, after more than a dozen full stop landings with nary a glitch, I went
back to the hanger - most of the same story tellers were around - but it appeared
that nobody was even watching...
As I'm feeling this plane out, getting a better idea of performance. With the climb
prop on, she gets to pattern altitude pretty quick. That being said - cruise
at 2350 rpm gives me an indicated airspeed of 83-85 mph. WOT shows a little
over 90 and 2550 rpm. I like this Continental A-75! Fresh overhall two years
ago, 50 hours on it now, and compressions are testing at 78/80 across the board.
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301871#301871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com" <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | OT - Free First Flying Lessons - EAA's New Young Eagles |
Initiative
Sorry for the off-topic post, but this topic has come up in the past,
and I thought it was worth sharing some somewhat positive news. I hope
nobody minds... -Wayne
________________________________________________
Free First Flying Lessons?
AvWeb is reporting that EAA has announced a new program where Young
Eagles can earn a first free flying lesson voucher. While this is great
news, and program that I wholeheartedly support on the surface, I have
to wonder where is all the buzz?
I've read a lot of talk lately about the future of GA. Where are the new
pilots? What are the obstacles? Why don't we have thousands of kids
lining up to take flying lessons? What amazes me is that this new
program has, so far, not caught anyone's attention.
LET'S SPREAD THE WORD!!!!
Here's the scoop from the EAA:
"Last year, we were proud to offer all Young Eagles their own pilot
logbook and free access to Sporty's Complete on line Pilot Training
Course," said Young Eagles co-chairman Jeff Skiles. "More than 3,000
Young Eagles have already enrolled in the course and several have taken
or soon will be ready to take their flight test and earn a pilot
certificate. With the addition of the First Flight Lesson, we continue
to build on the enthusiasm shown by these Young Eagles and help them
continue their journey toward a certificate."
Alright, ladies and germs. Get to the airport, spread the word. Let's
get as many kids in this program as we can. EAA says they're working on
a "Flight Plan" to get more young people involved in aviation. Let's
take advantage of EAA's size and reputation, and really put this program
into high gear! Go! Now! Do it!!!
EAA Press Release
(http://www.youngeagles.org/news/2010%20-%2006_14%20-%20EAA%20Announces%20Free%20Flight%20Lesson%20Program.asp)
Wayne Bressler
Taildraggers, Inc.
www.taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanDy" <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
So i did a couple of quick searches, and found nothing...
I have a pietenpol in my garage that was built in 1977, and hasn't been re-varnished
since, I'm recovering and going over a few things, mainly hardware, nothing
to big.
My question is, should i add another layer of varnish, or leave as is? everything
seems in good shape so far, but just curious as to everyone else's opinion.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301888#301888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
If the varnish is cracked, and you can see wood through the cracks,
re-varnish those areas that need it.
If it's crazed and you can't chip it off with your fingernail or (very)
light prying with a putty knife, I'd call it good and move on.
This is advice based on my amateur experience with refinishing old
furniture and in no way based on experience dealing with wooden
airframes. I will defer to the experts.
Dan
On 06/21/2010 02:56 AM, VanDy wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "VanDy"
>
> So i did a couple of quick searches, and found nothing...
>
> I have a pietenpol in my garage that was built in 1977, and hasn't been re-varnished
since, I'm recovering and going over a few things, mainly hardware, nothing
to big.
>
> My question is, should i add another layer of varnish, or leave as is? everything
seems in good shape so far, but just curious as to everyone else's opinion.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking to do Air to air photos at Brodheas |
hi all
I'm planning on making it to Brodhead this year in my "plastic"
airplane (glastar).
a friend of mine who is a prof aviation photographer us coming along,
and is looking to get some shots. I was thinking of taking the doors
off the glastar, and hoping to get some air-to-air shots - if people
are interested.
any takers?
thanks
Jonathan Apfelbaum (yellow glastar taildragger)
-----Original Message-----
From: lorin.miller(at)emerson.com
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club
tonight...
Okay, I spent almost 2 hours last evening doing nothing but full stop
landings.
Lesson learned for me - I work best doing wheel landings on concrete
keeping a
tad bit of throttle on till tires are on the ground. Once the tail
drops to the
ground - no rudder authority, only the tailwheel and brakes to keep her
straight.
Amazing, after more than a dozen full stop landings with nary a glitch,
I went
back to the hanger - most of the same story tellers were around - but
it
appeared that nobody was even watching...
As I'm feeling this plane out, getting a better idea of performance.
With the
climb prop on, she gets to pattern altitude pretty quick. That being
said -
cruise at 2350 rpm gives me an indicated airspeed of 83-85 mph. WOT
shows a
little over 90 and 2550 rpm. I like this Continental A-75! Fresh
overhall two
years ago, 50 hours on it now, and compressions are testing at 78/80
across the
board.
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301871#301871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking to do Air to air photos at Brodheas |
What does the GlaStar stall at? It may be too fast for some of the
Piets. I mean, Larry Williams and I won't be a problem, what with our
blistering speed and all, but some of the other riff-raff barely make
70! mph!
>:-}
>
>
>hi all
>
>I'm planning on making it to Brodhead this year in my "plastic"
>airplane (glastar).
>
>a friend of mine who is a prof aviation photographer us coming
>along, and is looking to get some shots. I was thinking of taking
>the doors off the glastar, and hoping to get some air-to-air shots -
>if people are interested.
>
>any takers?
>
>thanks
>
>Jonathan Apfelbaum (yellow glastar taildragger)
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking to do Air to air photos at Brodheas |
The Glastar stalls at around 41 knots
Am all up for trying to get as slow as possible :)
Cheers
Jon
In a message dated 6/21/2010 11:57:54 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
jack(at)textors.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jack"
I would be glad to "observe"... :)
Jack
DSM
Do not archive
hi all
I'm planning on making it to Brodhead this year in my "plastic"
airplane (glastar).
a friend of mine who is a prof aviation photographer us coming along,
and is looking to get some shots. I was thinking of taking the doors
off the glastar, and hoping to get some air-to-air shots - if people
are interested.
any takers?
thanks
Jonathan Apfelbaum (yellow glastar taildragger)
-----Original Message-----
From: lorin.miller(at)emerson.com
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 10:45 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Officially joined the "Oh sh$#@!" club
tonight...
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "ldmill"
Okay, I spent almost 2 hours last evening doing nothing but full stop
landings.
Lesson learned for me - I work best doing wheel landings on concrete
keeping a
tad bit of throttle on till tires are on the ground. Once the tail
drops to the
ground - no rudder authority, only the tailwheel and brakes to keep her
straight.
Amazing, after more than a dozen full stop landings with nary a glitch,
I went
back to the hanger - most of the same story tellers were around - but
it
appeared that nobody was even watching...
As I'm feeling this plane out, getting a better idea of performance.
With the
climb prop on, she gets to pattern altitude pretty quick. That being
said -
cruise at 2350 rpm gives me an indicated airspeed of 83-85 mph. WOT
shows a
little over 90 and 2550 rpm. I like this Continental A-75! Fresh
overhall two
years ago, 50 hours on it now, and compressions are testing at 78/80
across the
board.
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301871#301871
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Dan's cruise speed |
My static full power rpm with a 72"-42 pitch wood prop on my A-65 is 2150 and that
is what I cruise
at which yields about 72 mph. Haven't checked full throttle operation but Jack
Phillips and I were
at advanced throttle settings when we entered the arrival procedure over Ripon,
WI for the FISK approach.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | planning for Brodhead |
All,
I'm making my list of things to bring to Brodhead. I'll be camping at
the field and I'm wondering, what do ya'll generally do for breakfast?
Should I pack the micro-burner, white gas, and a coffee pot? Or do you
guys hoof down the road for breakfast?
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
The local Lion's Club usually does pancakes and sausage at the airport for
breakfast. McDonald's is within walking distance and if you can hitch a ride
into downtown Brodhead you can find a few cafe's that do a decent breakfast.
4 weeks and counting......
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: planning for Brodhead
>
> All,
>
> I'm making my list of things to bring to Brodhead. I'll be camping at the
> field and I'm wondering, what do ya'll generally do for breakfast? Should
> I pack the micro-burner, white gas, and a coffee pot? Or do you guys hoof
> down the road for breakfast?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
If you can find a ride or don't mind a little walk the Sand Burr is just to
the southeast, about a mile away. Pretty decent family restaurant fare.
Airport Rd south to Halfway Tree, Halfway Tree east to T, and make a right
on T.
Ryan
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 5:07 PM, gcardinal wrote:
>
> The local Lion's Club usually does pancakes and sausage at the airport for
> breakfast. McDonald's is within walking distance and if you can hitch a ride
> into downtown Brodhead you can find a few cafe's that do a decent breakfast.
>
> 4 weeks and counting......
>
> Greg C.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:16 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: planning for Brodhead
>
>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I'm making my list of things to bring to Brodhead. I'll be camping at the
>> field and I'm wondering, what do ya'll generally do for breakfast? Should I
>> pack the micro-burner, white gas, and a coffee pot? Or do you guys hoof
>> down the road for breakfast?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>>
>> --
>> Dan Yocum
>> Fermilab 630.840.6509
>> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
>> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I plan on pulling my camper. I understand they allow me to pull it on the field.
Are we allowed to run generators?
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301970#301970
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I plan on pulling my camper. I understand they allow me to pull it on the field.
Are we allowed to run generators?
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301971#301971
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie Moreno" <ewmoreno(at)minetfiber.com> |
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
I camp at Brodhead and eat at camp. Also macd down the road about a mile.
Ernie Moreno
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Yocum" <yocum(at)fnal.gov>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: planning for Brodhead
>
> All,
>
> I'm making my list of things to bring to Brodhead. I'll be camping at
> the field and I'm wondering, what do ya'll generally do for breakfast?
> Should I pack the micro-burner, white gas, and a coffee pot? Or do you
> guys hoof down the road for breakfast?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11:36:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello all,
Well today the DAR showed-up at about 10 am. Long story short, is that I
have my brand new Special Airworthiness Certificate. Everything went smoo
th for the most part, and only a few very minor squawks. The DAR made note
of the squawks in the log book, to be taken care of before any passenger
flight. So my plan is to get some more taxi time in, to learn the ground
handling of this bird a little better, and get used to the rudder bar a
bit better. I Figured out that during taxiing, if I put my heels on the
rudder bar, I can reach the brake pedals just fine. My 1" wide band brake
s give me about as much braking power as I expected- minimal. But I knew
that going in, and need them so I don't roll into the gas pumps etc.
Also there has been some talk on this list about the legality of carrying
a passenger in the "test phase" of flight (first 40 hours). He said this
is strictly prohibited, and would only be approved in special cases such
as a Boeing 727 experimental, where the designer made the airplane to req
uire extra people to operate it. My Airworthiness Certificate section "E"
, says "operating limitations dated 6-21-10 are a part of this certificate
" On my accompanying operating limitation (that the DAR gave me) it specif
ically says that "During the flight test phase, no person may be carried
in this aircraft during flight". Pretty definitive.
So maybe by Saturday I will feel confident enough to fly. One thing I real
ly need to be aware of is the limited forward visibility in this airplane
(with the radiator). Yesterday, I actually went off into the corner of th
e hay field about 10 feet during one of my higher speed runs. Woke me up
but good!!.
So I will keep you all posted on any progress going forward.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
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YXIgR3JvdmUsIElMLg0KDQo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
Congrats Dan!!! This is very exciting.
Interesting note about carrying passengers. I didn't realize that had been a recent
discussion on the list.
I heard of one Pietenpol builder that crashed his Piet during one take off....at
about hour number 10 or 11 during his initial flights...and his passenger's
shoulder harness ripped big holes in the back of the seat. He had just lifted
off so it wasn't life threatening. Still scary.
And every time I hear of someone wanting to take up a passenger (I know you don't
plan on it) I remember that person's flight...and how horrible it would have
been to have had a really serious accident during the fly off time (or any time
for that matter).
Anyway, sorry to go on a rant. Mainly, VERY cool about your progress! I'm sure
hoping to get to Brodhead and it would be neat to see YOU fly in!
>From beautiful Hannibal Missouri, JM
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Jun 21, 2010 7:49 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!!
Hello all,
Well today the DAR showed-up at about 10 am. Long story short, is that I have my
brand new Special Airworthiness Certificate. Everything went smooth for the
most part, and only a few very minor squawks. The DAR made note of the squawks
in the log book, to be taken care of before any passenger flight. So my plan
is to get some more taxi time in, to learn the ground handling of this bird a
little better, and get used to the rudder bar a bit better. I Figured out that
during taxiing, if I put my heels on the rudder bar, I can reach the brake pedals
just fine. My 1" wide band brakes give me about as much braking power as
I expected- minimal. But I knew that going in, and need them so I don't roll into
the gas pumps etc.
Also there has been some talk on this list about the legality of carrying a passenger
in the "test phase" of flight (first 40 hours). He said this is strictly
prohibited, and would only be approved in special cases such as a Boeing 727
experimental, where the designer made the airplane to require extra people to
operate it. My Airworthiness Certificate section "E", says "operating limitations
dated 6-21-10 are a part of this certificate" On my accompanying operating
limitation (that the DAR gave me) it specifically says that "During the flight
test phase, no person may be carried in this aircraft during flight". Pretty
definitive.
So maybe by Saturday I will feel confident enough to fly. One thing I really need
to be aware of is the limited forward visibility in this airplane (with the
radiator). Yesterday, I actually went off into the corner of the hay field about
10 feet during one of my higher speed runs. Woke me up but good!!.
So I will keep you all posted on any progress going forward.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wayne Bressler <wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com> |
| Subject: | Model A Piet on Barnstormers (not mine) |
2004 PIETENPOL FORD MODEL A =A2 $14,500 =A2 FOR SALE =A2
Classic
Bernard Pietenpol design. AFTT 100 , SMOH 110. Toe brakes, ICOM radio,
Slick magneto. Built to plans in 2004 by a retired machinist with a
Ford Model A engine. Model A Pietenpols draw tremendous amount of
attention at airports. Pietenpol featured in EAA's Sport Aviation this
spring. Aircraft is airworthy with required documentation and
condition inspection due in Sept 2010. Easy to fly vintage design
based at DeKalb Airport (KDKB). Delivery Available. =A2 Contact
Joseph
D. Dougherty, Friend of Owner - located Wheaton, IL USA =A2
Telephone:630-292-11
39 . =A2 Posted June 21, 2010 =A2 Show all Ads posted by
this
Advertiser =A2 Recommend This Ad to a Friend =A2Email
Advertiser =A2
Save to Watchlist =A2 Report This Ad =A2 View Larger
Pictures
I saw this and thought I'd share. It sure is pretty! Wish I had an
extra $14k!
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
| From: | "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com> |
John,
>From what I recall, the guys with the generators are usually segregated off to
a certain area, so they can listen to each other's generator thru out the night.
: ) I would just ask where they want you when you get there. But yeah,
they do allow them.
Open invitation to you other guys on foot..........If you need a lift into town,
just look me up. Red Jeep Wrangler next to a popup. We usually park a little
north and east of the pavilion. And if I'm not going, you can take the Jeep........
as long as you come back!
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301983#301983
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
Congratulations on your exciting day. My Phase 1 was only 25 hours, and
I took my first passenger (my wife) with I think 25.1 hours in the
logbook. The most nervous flight in Phase 1 was the one with 200 pounds
of steel strapped to the passenger seat when I loaded the airplane up to
full gross to satisfy that part of Phase 1. I missed flying to
Sun-N-Fun because the weather wouldn't cooperate enough for me to fly
off the last hour of Phase 1. I plan to enjoy my Pietenpol for a long
time, and think the rules about phase 1 are a good idea. I was anxious
to take my wife up on her first flight, and that gave me an excuse to
fly a lot more than usual. Enjoy, you will be flying before you know
it. Just be sure to pre-flight and start every taxi test with plenty of
fuel in the tank, just in case you end up flying.
Ben Charvet
Mims, Fl
Flying commercial to Brodhead, via Milwaukee
On 6/21/2010 8:49 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> Hello all,
> Well today the DAR showed-up at about 10 am. Long story short, is that
> I have my brand new Special Airworthiness Certificate. Everything went
> smooth for the most part, and only a few very minor squawks. The DAR
> made note of the squawks in the log book, to be taken care of before
> any passenger flight. So my plan is to get some more taxi time in, to
> learn the ground handling of this bird a little better, and get used
> to the rudder bar a bit better. I Figured out that during taxiing, if
> I put my heels on the rudder bar, I can reach the brake pedals just
> fine. My 1" wide band brakes give me about as much braking power as I
> expected- minimal. But I knew that going in, and need them so I don't
> roll into the gas pumps etc.
> Also there has been some talk on this list about the legality of
> carrying a passenger in the "test phase" of flight (first 40 hours).
> He said this is strictly prohibited, and would only be approved in
> special cases such as a Boeing 727 experimental, where the designer
> made the airplane to require extra people to operate it. My
> Airworthiness Certificate section "E", says "operating limitations
> dated 6-21-10 are a part of this certificate" On my accompanying
> operating limitation (that the DAR gave me) it specifically says that
> "During the flight test phase, no person may be carried in this
> aircraft during flight". Pretty definitive.
> So maybe by Saturday I will feel confident enough to fly. One thing I
> really need to be aware of is the limited forward visibility in this
> airplane (with the radiator). Yesterday, I actually went off into the
> corner of the hay field about 10 feet during one of my higher speed
> runs. Woke me up but good!!.
> So I will keep you all posted on any progress going forward.
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I suppose wifi is out of the question?
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301986#301986
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
> jim_markle(at)mindspring.com>
>
> I'm sure hoping to get to Brodhead and it would be neat to see YOU fly
> in!
>
>
You better be at Broadhead Markle, or we'll come find you!
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: planning for Brodhead |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
BYOBBA. (bring your own broadband antenna).
On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Kringle wrote:
>
> I suppose wifi is out of the question?
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301986#301986
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
| From: | "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com> |
This just came in a AVwebAlert email. I guess we're having too much fun, and federal
government can't allow that. I could say more, but the proper words needed
to describe this FCC action are not printable.
Paul
FCC BANS 121.5 ELTS
The Federal Communications Commission took the general aviation world by surprise
when it said in a recent report it will prohibit the sale or use of 121.5 MHz
emergency locator transmitters, effective in August. The Aircraft Electronics
Association said it just learned of the new rule today, and has begun working
with the FAA, FCC and others to allow for timely compliance without grounding
thousands of general aviation aircraft. The 121.5 ELTs are allowed under FAA
rules. The FCC said its rules have been amended to "prohibit further certification,
manufacture, importation, sale or use of 121.5 MHz ELTs." The FCC says
that if the 121.5 units are no longer available, aircraft owners and operators
will "migrate" to the newer 406.0-406.1 MHz ELTs, which are monitored by satellite,
while the 121.5 frequency is not. "Were we to permit continued marketing
and use of 121.5 MHz ELTs ... it would engender the risk that aircraft owners
and operators would mistakenly rely on those ELTs for the relay of distress
alerts," the FCC says. AOPA said today it is opposed to the rule change.
"The FCC is making a regulatory change that would impose an extra cost on GA operators,
without properly communicating with the industry or understanding the
implications of its action," said AOPA Vice President of Regulatory Affairs Rob
Hackman. "There is no FAA requirement to replace 121.5 MHz units with 406 MHz
technology. When two government agencies don't coordinate, GA can suffer."
The AEA said dealers should refrain from selling any new 121.5 MHz ELTs "until
further understanding of this new prohibition can be understood and a realistic
timeline for transition can be established."
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301991#301991
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
Good, I can take the damn thing out throw it from 2000 feet into a field and see
if they find it. It weighs too much, doesn't look good, needs an antena, and
won't do didly to save my life here in the midwest any how. Just don't expect
me to actually buy a new one and put it in.
Shad
Must be another part of the stimulus plan from a "great" regime..., I mean administration
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Skip, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering |
Shad, Got all the pictures from your dad. Here are some.
Thanks for organizing the Piet gathering, hope it can be an annual event.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: 6/20/2010 7:40:20 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skip, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering
>
>
> Skip, Did you get the email with photos of the piet gathering? I was
wondering if you could post them on the list, my computer is still not
fixed, or I would do it myself. I would love to see any photos that any of
you in attendance might have taken. Post them on the list or email me.
Next week it is the big WACO fly-in at Wynkoop Airport in Mount Vernon.
The last I heard, Brian Wynkoop said it was ok for the piets to fly in.
Last year there was a waco only fly in rule, notam, or something.
>
> Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Skip, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering |
Shad, Got all the pictures from your dad. Here are some.
Thanks for organizing the Piet gathering, hope it can be an annual event.
Skip
> [Original Message]
> From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: 6/20/2010 7:40:20 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Skip, Pictures of Ohio Piet Gathering
>
>
> Skip, Did you get the email with photos of the piet gathering? I was
wondering if you could post them on the list, my computer is still not
fixed, or I would do it myself. I would love to see any photos that any of
you in attendance might have taken. Post them on the list or email me.
Next week it is the big WACO fly-in at Wynkoop Airport in Mount Vernon.
The last I heard, Brian Wynkoop said it was ok for the piets to fly in.
Last year there was a waco only fly in rule, notam, or something.
>
> Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | ohio waco fly-in |
Group, Skipp, Ed, Mike, Don etc etc, I went over to Wynkoop airport to ask if
we could fly our piets in on saturday, and the answer is NO! Brian said the field
is closed for the waco club, and only waco assn. members are supposed to
fly in. I got yelled at last year by the golf cart nazi for flying over on a
thurs evening (Brian told them I was OK to be there so no further scuffle took
place), when only 5-6 waco were there. So in short don't land at there fly-in
this saturday the 26th. However if any of you want to ride over in the back
of dad's 1932 1 ton stakebed truck be at my hanger by 10am on sat (it is about
a 20 min drive). If anyone is interested let me know, if not I might look
for another fly-in.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Do any "projects" show up? I would like to see some Piets in the construction
phase.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301998#301998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
Congratualtions, Dan! Why wait until Saturday?
Looking forward to seeing it at Brodhead in a month.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 8:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!!
Hello all,
Well today the DAR showed-up at about 10 am. Long story short, is that I
have my brand new Special Airworthiness Certificate. Everything went smooth
for the most part, and only a few very minor squawks. The DAR made note of
the squawks in the log book, to be taken care of before any passenger
flight. So my plan is to get some more taxi time in, to learn the ground
handling of this bird a little better, and get used to the rudder bar a bit
better. I Figured out that during taxiing, if I put my heels on the rudder
bar, I can reach the brake pedals just fine. My 1" wide band brakes give me
about as much braking power as I expected- minimal. But I knew that going
in, and need them so I don't roll into the gas pumps etc.
Also there has been some talk on this list about the legality of carrying a
passenger in the "test phase" of flight (first 40 hours). He said this is
strictly prohibited, and would only be approved in special cases such as a
Boeing 727 experimental, where the designer made the airplane to require
extra people to operate it. My Airworthiness Certificate section "E", says
"operating limitations dated 6-21-10 are a part of this certificate" On my
accompanying operating limitation (that the DAR gave me) it specifically
says that "During the flight test phase, no person may be carried in this
aircraft during flight". Pretty definitive.
So maybe by Saturday I will feel confident enough to fly. One thing I really
need to be aware of is the limited forward visibility in this airplane (with
the radiator). Yesterday, I actually went off into the corner of the hay
field about 10 feet during one of my higher speed runs. Woke me up but
good!!.
So I will keep you all posted on any progress going forward.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Congratulations Dan! Please keep us posted on your progress.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302002#302002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!! |
HA! Well Rick, I usually can't hide from anyone so you probably won't need to
come find me! I just got assigned to a job in Chattanooga TN the week after Brodhead
so I'm hoping I can do a flight through Chicago....that would put me there
for at least a day at Brodhead...
I'm hoping I can make the trip happen. All the new Piets this year...I want to
sit at the end of the runway and take videos again....talk about MOTIVATING!!!
I can just hardly wait to see the new Air Campers....
I'm ready to "be there" and stop "talking about" being there....
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Holland
Sent: Jun 21, 2010 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspection......I have a real airplane now!!!
I'm sure hoping to get to Brodhead and it would be neat to see YOU fly in!
You better be at Broadhead Markle, or we'll come find you!
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
After fixing some ignition and timing issues and installing new lower plugs
I did some performance numbers last night with
the airplane.
Takeoff weight with me and full fuel was 1034 lbs. 80F OAT and climbing
at 40-45 mph yielded 500 fpm rate of climb.
Power off stall at 29 mph, power on stall didn't even happen when the air s
peed was well below 30 and I didn't have the guts
to pull it back to make it break.
Thinking my conservative climb speed of 55-60 is making my angle of climb (
and rate) too anemic. Still learning after 12 years
of flying it.
Not remembering much of anything from ground school and private pilot theor
y classes, does an airplane's power on stall speed
increase with gross weight ? So say I went up and tried more power on s
talls with a 170 lb. passenger given the same conditions
as I flew last night ?
I know air density makes a difference in indicated air speed as on colder d
ays I appear to have a faster cruise speed...and maybe I do
with the prop/engine being more efficient in dense air.
Also for the record I did a full-throttle, level flight run to see where I
would place in a speed dash with Dan Yocum and would come in
second place. Max throttle yielded 2350 rpm and 84 mph.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Kringle's Curious Question about projects |
Dear John,
Sometimes partially built Pietenpol projects are put on display at Brodhead but
normally this isn't the case.
To see hundreds of photos of Pietenpols in various stages of construction you don't
even had to leave your
computer, run your camper generator, or hope for WiFi at Brodhead but just check
out Chris Tracy's fantastic
photo collection he's graciously posted for us:
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/
Mike C.
Headwinds, rough mags, warm beer, and full port-a-potties
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
We must remember that Dan's Piet is a bonafide air racer....he's flying with
a stacked deck. :)
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
>
> Also for the record I did a full-throttle, level flight run to see where I
> would place in a speed dash with Dan Yocum and would come in
> second place. Max throttle yielded 2350 rpm and 84 mph.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
So the logic goes like this: Let's say you have two identical aircraft, one weighing
900 lbs and one weighing 1000 lbs. The heavier aircraft will need higher
total lift, given steady state conditions, like cruise at 70 mph. Since lift
varies almost directly with angle of attack, the heavier one needs a higher
angle of attack (more lift) to stay even.
Airfoils stall at a particular and specific angle of attack regardless of gross
weight. The air flowing over the top of the airfoil separates and lift goes
away and it doesn't matter what the weight is. As you slow the aircraft down,
the angle of attack increases but the heavier aircraft started with a higher
angle so it reaches "stall" first.
Power-on stall occurs a a slower airspeed because the engine is providing a significant
amount of lift due to the nose high attitude so the airfoil sees what
it thinks is a lighter gross weight. If you have enough power, you can't induce
a power-on stall. I wonder if I can hang one of Sean Tucker's AEIOU and sometimes
Y 580's on my Piet. Would certainly solve the tail heavy issue once
and for all. Might have to drink more beer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302039#302039
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
Stall speed (either power-on or power-off) occurs at a HIGHER airspeed at
higher weight. That's why performance figures for certified aircraft are
typically shown at gross weight. Think about it, if the stall speed went
down as the weight goes up, you could therorectically add enough weight so
it would never stall, and the fatter the pilot the better the shortfield
performance would be. The stall actually occurs at the critical angle of
attack (which is a function of the airfoil design), regardless of airspeed.
That's why you can get into an accelerated stall at high airspeeds (such as
entering a snap roll, or pulling out of a steep dive). For this reason, an
AOA meter is a better indication of impending stall than an airspeed
indicator, but since they tend to be more expensive, we use the airspeed as
the indication.
I've always climbed my Piet at 50 - 55 mph, and get between 100 and 500 fpm
depending on loading and density altitude. Maybe tomorrow I'll do some test
flying and try it at 40 - 45 and see if I can get better climb.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight
After fixing some ignition and timing issues and installing new lower plugs
I did some performance numbers last night with
the airplane.
Takeoff weight with me and full fuel was 1034 lbs. 80F OAT and climbing
at 40-45 mph yielded 500 fpm rate of climb.
Power off stall at 29 mph, power on stall didn't even happen when the air
speed was well below 30 and I didn't have the guts
to pull it back to make it break.
Thinking my conservative climb speed of 55-60 is making my angle of climb
(and rate) too anemic. Still learning after 12 years
of flying it.
Not remembering much of anything from ground school and private pilot theory
classes, does an airplane's power on stall speed
increase with gross weight ? So say I went up and tried more power on
stalls with a 170 lb. passenger given the same conditions
as I flew last night ?
I know air density makes a difference in indicated air speed as on colder
days I appear to have a faster cruise speed.and maybe I do
with the prop/engine being more efficient in dense air.
Also for the record I did a full-throttle, level flight run to see where I
would place in a speed dash with Dan Yocum and would come in
second place. Max throttle yielded 2350 rpm and 84 mph.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kringle's Curious Question about projects |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Awesome website! Thanks Mike
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302055#302055
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
Mike, one thing I remember about aircraft C/G that can help performance, An airplane
with a aft c/g will stall slower and fly faster than the same aircraft with
a fwd c/g. Controlability, and stability will however suffer if the c/g gets
out of the allowed range. If I remember correctly, it is an effect of less
drag (from the downward "lift") being generated by the horiztal stab/elevator
to keep the nose down at high speed, and more downward force is available to
keep the tail down when close to stall, the full aerodynamic downforce of the
horiz tail, and the force from the c/g being further aft.
I don't know if anyone on here even cares about this, but there it is.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kmordecai001(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | What Prop is on your A-75? |
Lorin,
What prop are you running on your A-75?=C2- I have a Hegy 72 x 42, which
is too much prop for the A-75, and=C2-a Performance Props 73 x 39, which
is a little too flat......it sounds like yours is right on the money!
Dave Mordecai
NX520SF
Panacea, FL
As I'm feeling this plane out, getting a better idea of performance. With t
he climb
prop on, she gets to pattern altitude pretty quick. That being said - cruis
e
at 2350 rpm gives me an indicated airspeed of 83-85 mph. WOT shows a little
over 90 and 2550 rpm. I like this Continental A-75! Fresh overhall two year
s
ago, 50 hours on it now, and compressions are testing at 78/80 across the b
oard.
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
| From: | Matt Wash <mattwash(at)mattwash.com> |
Shad,
You're correct. With a forward CoG you are increasing your AoA due to the
downward force on the tail. Increased AoA means a reduced stall, increased
downward force means more drag.
That said, stall recovery of an an aircraft that has an aft CoG will be more
difficult (read, higher spin potential) than one with a forward CoG.
Regards,
~Matt
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 2:04 PM, shad bell wrote:
>
>
> Mike, one thing I remember about aircraft C/G that can help performance, An
> airplane with a aft c/g will stall slower and fly faster than the same
> aircraft with a fwd c/g. Controlability, and stability will however suffer
> if the c/g gets out of the allowed range. If I remember correctly, it is an
> effect of less drag (from the downward "lift") being generated by the
> horiztal stab/elevator to keep the nose down at high speed, and more
> downward force is available to keep the tail down when close to stall, the
> full aerodynamic downforce of the horiz tail, and the force from the c/g
> being further aft.
>
> I don't know if anyone on here even cares about this, but there it is.
>
> Shad
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
| From: | Matt Wash <mattwash(at)mattwash.com> |
Pardon my failure to proofread.
Should read "means an *increased *stall speed."
~Matt
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Matt Wash wrote:
> Shad,
>
> You're correct. With a forward CoG you are increasing your AoA due to the
> downward force on the tail. Increased AoA means a reduced stall, increased
> downward force means more drag.
>
> That said, stall recovery of an an aircraft that has an aft CoG will be
> more difficult (read, higher spin potential) than one with a forward CoG.
>
> Regards,
> ~Matt
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 2:04 PM, shad bell wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mike, one thing I remember about aircraft C/G that can help performance,
>> An airplane with a aft c/g will stall slower and fly faster than the same
>> aircraft with a fwd c/g. Controlability, and stability will however suffer
>> if the c/g gets out of the allowed range. If I remember correctly, it is an
>> effect of less drag (from the downward "lift") being generated by the
>> horiztal stab/elevator to keep the nose down at high speed, and more
>> downward force is available to keep the tail down when close to stall, the
>> full aerodynamic downforce of the horiz tail, and the force from the c/g
>> being further aft.
>>
>> I don't know if anyone on here even cares about this, but there it is.
>>
>> Shad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
OK help me guys- I have come to a point where I have about 99% of the airplane
is together. lacking a lot of screws and a few strips of gap seal. but had to
see where I was at with my weight and balance.and the talk about more aft CG giving
better speed with less down elevator required.or at least that is what I
think I heard. and I hear of a lot of birds flying with 30 to 50 pounds on the
tail.I ran my numbers several times and every way I figured it fits within the
limits of 22% to 34% of chord but close to the back. I am waiting till about
the last thing to permanently install the battery because by my thinking it
is easier to shift it than add needless weight.anyway- I'll admit it-I am at 13
pounds tail weight empty and that sounds extremely low to me.I have done everything
I can to level the plane and repeat weigh it and use different scales
but the tail wheel is that light. maybe due to the distance from the wing to the
tail being a GN-1 and altered some by DJ it would be different.I was even lighter
and I removed the nose tank and made and installed a center section tank
and it is just bugging me that maybe I'm missing something here.but if anyone
is willing to e-mail me and check my figures I would appreciate a second opinion.for
what it's worth- they are as follows. datum firewall. leading edge 18"
back. main wheels 24 1/4" back tail-wheel 185 1/2" back. passenger arm 37 1/2"
pilot arm 71" fuel arm 42 1/2" it will hold 15 gallons.I weigh 210 and figured
a 180# passenger for full load and most rear CG with full fuel. thanks for
any help. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302078#302078
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I don't know if this will allow me to go ahead and get my phase 1 Airworthiness
without going bankrupt or not-but here may be one loophole for me at the start.
There may be another loop-hole. FAR 91.207 (f)(3)...
(f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to
(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely within a
50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operations
began;
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302079#302079
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
Need the weight of each main when the airplane is level to figure w/b.
Perry Rhoads
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail weight
>
>
> OK help me guys- I have come to a point where I have about 99% of the
> airplane is together. lacking a lot of screws and a few strips of gap
> seal. but had to see where I was at with my weight and balance.and the
> talk about more aft CG giving better speed with less down elevator
> required.or at least that is what I think I heard. and I hear of a lot of
> birds flying with 30 to 50 pounds on the tail.I ran my numbers several
> times and every way I figured it fits within the limits of 22% to 34% of
> chord but close to the back. I am waiting till about the last thing to
> permanently install the battery because by my thinking it is easier to
> shift it than add needless weight.anyway- I'll admit it-I am at 13 pounds
> tail weight empty and that sounds extremely low to me.I have done
> everything I can to level the plane and repeat weigh it and use different
> scales but the tail wheel is that light. maybe due to the distance from
> the wing to the tail being a GN-1 and altered some by DJ it would!
> be different.I was even lighter and I removed the nose tank and made and
> installed a center section tank and it is just bugging me that maybe I'm
> missing something here.but if anyone is willing to e-mail me and check my
> figures I would appreciate a second opinion.for what it's worth- they are
> as follows. datum firewall. leading edge 18" back. main wheels 24 1/4"
> back tail-wheel 185 1/2" back. passenger arm 37 1/2" pilot arm 71" fuel
> arm 42 1/2" it will hold 15 gallons.I weigh 210 and figured a 180#
> passenger for full load and most rear CG with full fuel. thanks for any
> help. Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302078#302078
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
You know I was thinking I left that out as soon as I hit send. the right is 373#
and left 365#.
she is a Sow but still I think flight is possible.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302084#302084
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Only problem there is that you would not be engaged in training....you can'
t
give yourself flight training in your own airplane. :P
(f)(4) says: Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to design
and testing.
That would probably be the line that would allow you to get by without one
for Phase I. However you would have to have one for phase II; anecdotal
statements out there on the 'net seem to indicate that the DAR/FAA rep may
very well only give you a Limited Airworthiness Certificate for Phase I
flight with no ELT, and may want to come back out to inspect the ELT
installation before issuing your Special Airworthiness Cert. Since you are
going to have to spend the money anyway it might be worth it to get the ELT
and install it before the airplane is finished, to avoid hassle later on
It may be worthwhile to figure out which FSDO/DAR you will be using, and
give them a call and run it by them as well.
Ryan
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM, skellytown flyer wr
ote:
> skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
>
> I don't know if this will allow me to go ahead and get my phase 1
> Airworthiness without going bankrupt or not-but here may be one loophole
for
> me at the start.
>
> There may be another loop-hole. FAR 91.207 (f)(3)...
> (f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to=97
>
> (3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely with
in
> a
> 50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight
> operations
> began;
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302079#302079
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd(at)earthlink.net> |
Raymond,
The tail weight(the scale under the tail wheel) is strictly a function of
the placement of the main gear, nothing to do with the CG. My GN1 tail
weight is 24 lbs level and about 55 lbs at 3 point attitude.
Skip
> From: skellytown flyer <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Date: 6/22/2010 4:55:07 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail weight
>
>
> OK help me guys- I have come to a point where I have about 99% of the
airplane is together. lacking a lot of screws and a few strips of gap seal.
but had to see where I was at with my weight and balance.and the talk about
more aft CG giving better speed with less down elevator required.or at
least that is what I think I heard. and I hear of a lot of birds flying
with 30 to 50 pounds on the tail.I ran my numbers several times and every
way I figured it fits within the limits of 22% to 34% of chord but close to
the back. I am waiting till about the last thing to permanently install the
battery because by my thinking it is easier to shift it than add needless
weight.anyway- I'll admit it-I am at 13 pounds tail weight empty and that
sounds extremely low to me.I have done everything I can to level the plane
and repeat weigh it and use different scales but the tail wheel is that
light. maybe due to the distance from the wing to the tail being a GN-1 and
altered some by DJ it would!
> be different.I was even lighter and I removed the nose tank and made
and installed a center section tank and it is just bugging me that maybe
I'm missing something here.but if anyone is willing to e-mail me and check
my figures I would appreciate a second opinion.for what it's worth- they
are as follows. datum firewall. leading edge 18" back. main wheels 24 1/4"
back tail-wheel 185 1/2" back. passenger arm 37 1/2" pilot arm 71" fuel arm
42 1/2" it will hold 15 gallons.I weigh 210 and figured a 180# passenger
for full load and most rear CG with full fuel. thanks for any help. Raymond
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
Raymond,
Using your weights and measurements, you're 37.20 aft of datum with that
loading of 1231 gross. If you have a 60"chord, 34% is 20.40, or 38.40 aft of
datum. You're in!
These figures have been done out of boredom at work, so please don't go by
anything I say.
Perry Rhoads
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:19 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail weight
>
>
> You know I was thinking I left that out as soon as I hit send. the right
> is 373# and left 365#.
> she is a Sow but still I think flight is possible.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302084#302084
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Perry-that was my results too. I guess like the previous message indicated
a lot of the reason for my light tail is the mains are father back in relation
to the CG. I just hadn't thought of that.the biggest drawback i see there
is it will be easier to flip it on it's nose if I go to sleep and don't keep the
stick back on the ground or get aggressive with the disc brakes. kinda wish
I had a set of those weak band brakes myself.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302090#302090
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
What's an ELT?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
An extra long tongue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs
>
> What's an ELT?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Corvair powered Piet in Spain... |
http://asociacionaviacionexperimental.com/index.php/revista
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Bernie <tsbernie(at)earthlink.net> |
Raymond,
Look in the archives you'll see discussions about the aft cg issues I had with
my GN-1. I had to make a motor mount 5" longer than the plans called for, ( after
the C-85 was mounted on the J-3 mount and the cowling was in progress).
One thing I did that helped, was to derive the correct pilot and passenger moments
by actual weighing and in my case they were shorter than the plans said.
If you do the w&b correctly, the numbers don't lie. At some point you have to
draw the line on the maximum allowable aft cg.
Tom
On Jun 22, 2010, at 4:51 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
>
> OK help me guys- I have come to a point where I have about 99% of the airplane
is together. lacking a lot of screws and a few strips of gap seal. but had to
see where I was at with my weight and balance.and the talk about more aft CG
giving better speed with less down elevator required.or at least that is what
I think I heard. and I hear of a lot of birds flying with 30 to 50 pounds on
the tail.I ran my numbers several times and every way I figured it fits within
the limits of 22% to 34% of chord but close to the back. I am waiting till about
the last thing to permanently install the battery because by my thinking it
is easier to shift it than add needless weight.anyway- I'll admit it-I am at
13 pounds tail weight empty and that sounds extremely low to me.I have done everything
I can to level the plane and repeat weigh it and use different scales
but the tail wheel is that light. maybe due to the distance from the wing to
the tail being a GN-1 and altered some by DJ it would!
> be different.I was even lighter and I removed the nose tank and made and installed
a center section tank and it is just bugging me that maybe I'm missing
something here.but if anyone is willing to e-mail me and check my figures I would
appreciate a second opinion.for what it's worth- they are as follows. datum
firewall. leading edge 18" back. main wheels 24 1/4" back tail-wheel 185 1/2"
back. passenger arm 37 1/2" pilot arm 71" fuel arm 42 1/2" it will hold 15 gallons.I
weigh 210 and figured a 180# passenger for full load and most rear CG
with full fuel. thanks for any help. Raymond
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302078#302078
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
I haven't read it for a while but I know single place aircraft are not required
to carry one.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allan Macklem" <awmacklem(at)cox.net> |
Interesting to know how potention air attacks were detected before
Radar. Some of you may have used this equipment, but it was
considerably before my time.:-))
Allan Macklem
"I have the plans"
These look like a joke, but were actual
"hearing aids" to detect airplanes.....
Before Radar, How Were Air Attacks Detected?
With old time hearing aids!
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -ON A SWIVEL
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -GERMAN
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -ON WHEELS
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -ENGLAND
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
13:35:00
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
36:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
If those FCC clowns think I am going to shell out $750.00 for a worthless
pile of crap then they have another thing coming. I will be a law breaker
if this is not repealed by cooler heads. DON'T get me started!!!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 4:27 pm
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs
Only problem there is that you would not be engaged in training....you can
't give yourself flight training in your own airplane. :P
(f)(4) says: Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to desig
n and testing.
That would probably be the line that would allow you to get by without one
for Phase I. However you would have to have one for phase II; anecdotal
statements out there on the 'net seem to indicate that the DAR/FAA rep ma
y very well only give you a Limited Airworthiness Certificate for Phase I
flight with no ELT, and may want to come back out to inspect the ELT inst
allation before issuing your Special Airworthiness Cert. Since you are goi
ng to have to spend the money anyway it might be worth it to get the ELT
and install it before the airplane is finished, to avoid hassle later on
It may be worthwhile to figure out which FSDO/DAR you will be using, and
give them a call and run it by them as well.
Ryan
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM, skellytown flyer
wrote:
o.com>
I don't know if this will allow me to go ahead and get my phase 1 Airworth
iness without going bankrupt or not-but here may be one loophole for me at
the start.
There may be another loop-hole. FAR 91.207 (f)(3)...
(f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to=94
(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely withi
n a
50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operat
ions
began;
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302079#302079
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Before Radar |
That's what I need after a 30 min flight in the corvair, and the line boy asks
if I need fuel. My wife would swear I need tose hearing aids as well, when she
asks me to take out the trash.
Shad
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
| From: | Matt Wash <mattwash(at)mattwash.com> |
You could go for 90 days following your phase 2 or longer depending how
important seat #2 is.
*(9) Aircraft equipped to carry not more than one person. *
*(10) An aircraft during any period for which the transmitter has been
temporarily removed for inspection, repair, modification, or replacement,
subject to the following: *
*(i) No person may operate the aircraft unless the aircraft records contain
an entry which includes the date of initial removal, the make, model, seria
l
number, and reason for removing the transmitter, and a placard located in
view of the pilot to show "ELT not installed." *
*(ii) No person may operate the aircraft more than 90 days after the ELT is
initially removed from the aircraft; and *
You could stretch it 90 days while your 121.5 ELT is removed for
replacement.
You could stretch it forever if you removed the front seatbelt since I thin
k
this would create an "Aircraft equipped to carry not more than one person."
.
http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-207-FAR.shtml
~Matt
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Only problem there is that you would not be engaged in training....you
> can't give yourself flight training in your own airplane. :P
>
> (f)(4) says: Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to desi
gn
> and testing.
>
> That would probably be the line that would allow you to get by without on
e
> for Phase I. However you would have to have one for phase II; anecdotal
> statements out there on the 'net seem to indicate that the DAR/FAA rep ma
y
> very well only give you a Limited Airworthiness Certificate for Phase I
> flight with no ELT, and may want to come back out to inspect the ELT
> installation before issuing your Special Airworthiness Cert. Since you ar
e
> going to have to spend the money anyway it might be worth it to get the E
LT
> and install it before the airplane is finished, to avoid hassle later on
>
> It may be worthwhile to figure out which FSDO/DAR you will be using, and
> give them a call and run it by them as well.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM, skellytown flyer
wrote:
>
>> skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
>>
>> I don't know if this will allow me to go ahead and get my phase 1
>> Airworthiness without going bankrupt or not-but here may be one loophole
for
>> me at the start.
>>
>> There may be another loop-hole. FAR 91.207 (f)(3)...
>> (f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to=97
>>
>> (3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely
>> within a
>> 50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight
>> operations
>> began;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302079#302079
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
With power on the inner six ft or so has a much faster and
straighter flow of air over it so may not ever see a stall
speed airflow thus at least a bit of the wing thinks it's still
flying merrily along. ( Now about that radiator!) :-)
The Lockheed P3 Orion has half the wingspan behind
prop blades. It could be slowed down to a GROUNDSPEED
of considerably less than power off stall. I have talked
to a couple of retired Canadian Forces SAR pilots that
flew these things. This was a routine procedure out off
both coasts on SAR missions. The rpm would be brought
up high with high AOA when there was need to go slow.
So much direct flow over the wing they could almost
hover. Now wouldn't that be a sight!
Clif
>
>
> So the logic goes like this: Let's say you have two identical aircraft,
> one weighing 900 lbs and one weighing 1000 lbs. The heavier aircraft will
> need higher total lift, given steady state conditions, like cruise at 70
> mph. Since lift varies almost directly with angle of attack, the heavier
> one needs a higher angle of attack (more lift) to stay even.
>
> Airfoils stall at a particular and specific angle of attack regardless of
> gross weight. The air flowing over the top of the airfoil separates and
> lift goes away and it doesn't matter what the weight is. As you slow the
> aircraft down, the angle of attack increases but the heavier aircraft
> started with a higher angle so it reaches "stall" first.
>
> Power-on stall occurs a a slower airspeed because the engine is providing
> a significant amount of lift due to the nose high attitude so the airfoil
> sees what it thinks is a lighter gross weight. If you have enough power,
> you can't induce a power-on stall. I wonder if I can hang one of Sean
> Tucker's AEIOU and sometimes Y 580's on my Piet. Would certainly solve
> the tail heavy issue once and for all. Might have to drink more beer.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302039#302039
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
11:36:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
| From: | "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com> |
Eloquently stated Dan. I'd like to add another (to paraphrase Davy Crockett):
They can all go to hell. I'm going to Brodhead.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302149#302149
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Before Radar |
And then, of course, there was "Radar". What would Mash have been
without him?
Clif
Interesting to know how potention air attacks were detected before
Radar. Some of you may have used this equipment, but it was
considerably before my time.:-))
Allan Macklem
"I have the plans"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I tried a search and found a lot of info, but had some specific questions.
1. what are the performance numbers, with a corvair motor. As in fuel burn, clime
rate, cruse, CG issues, the need of a special carb, can i burn 100LL, ect.?
2. Is there a standard set up for wire wheels and brakes? I've seen talk about
buying this hub here and getting a rim there. Are there a set of known good motorcycle
wheels to use?
3. This may go with question 1, but what about gross weight? I'm concerned that
my dad and I both will not be able to fly in there as he is about 200 and I'm
225. Will we be OK so long as the gross weight does not exceed X number? Is that
number fluid, in that since we will have extra power with the corvair motor
we'll be ok?
4. I've seen a lot of guys use the O200... what are the advantages there?
Thanks for any input
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302154#302154
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | prevent splinters with duct tape |
I believe Mr. Kringle asked about preventing splinters in plywood.
Today I cut a few hundred gusset pieces by first ripping long 7/8" wide
strips (with the grain - no splinters), then stacking them up and duct
taping them together with looong strips of duct tape. I only applied
tape to the rear side of the stack which is where the ply likes to
splinter. Voila! No splinters (well, considerably fewer).
I also use a circular saw blade with 60 teeth - considerably more than a
normal table saw blade.
So, there ya go. Is there nothing duct tape can't be used for?
Dan
PS in the picture you can see some of the pieces I didn't duct tape
together - splinters!
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
also.. anyone know where i can buy vintage looking instruments?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302160#302160
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Matt Wash <mattwash(at)mattwash.com> |
http://www.aviation-antiques.com/instruments-1.html
I haven't dealt with them personally, but they have actual vintage items.
~Matt
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:28 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> also.. anyone know where i can buy vintage looking instruments?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302160#302160
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
> also.. anyone know where i can buy vintage looking instruments?
Barnstormers, Ebay.
Look at: www.aviation-antiques.com
www.preferredairparts.com/homebuilt.htm
Try Google for 'Antique Aircraft Gauges'
There are plenty about but they need to be working (obvious...sorry) or
repairable and be ready to pay some serious money in some cases. For the
Pietenpol you might want to look at Vintage Vehicle sites to for Oil
Pressure and Temp. You can get retro looking modern stuff too.
Regards
Gerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
http://www.aviation-antiques.com/instruments-1.html
I haven't dealt with them personally, but they have actual vintage items.
I have and I found them to be very helpful and I purchased oil pressure
gauge and they also have some old style =8CContinental=B9 Engine Stickers.
Regards
Gerry in UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
I disagree with the statement that an aircraft will stall at a lower airspeed with
an aft cg. I knew skydivers that wouldn't jump a "Lodestall," oops, I meant
a Lodestar, because they tended to stall if the airspeed was reduced much during
exits. As the jumpers moved to the back of the aircraft, the cg became
very much aft. I've heard more than one story about a Lodestar rolling over on
its back like a cheap hooker as a group of skydivers got out. Beech 18's were
bad about that also, but not as bad as the "Lodestall."
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302166#302166
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Corvair powered Piet in Spain... |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
There is a photo (only one) of a Piet that is blue and white. I think maybe a
different airplane than the one that comes up on the link. The one in the photo
looks to have the wing much higher, or the upper longeron much lower than a
standard Piet. My Spanish is extremely weak, but I was able to find it. It
looks like they have a pretty wide variety of aircraft in the club/association.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302169#302169
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
J-dunavin, (we use first names on this forum :O)
I just kept watching ebay for vintage instruments that come up for sale pe
riodically. You have to have the money when the time is right because othe
rs are doing the same thing. But do not bid it up unnessesarily- I would
recommend using a bidding service such as Powersnipe,com that automatical
ly bids at the last second.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: j_dunavin <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 11:28 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
also.. anyone know where i can buy vintage looking instruments?
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302160#302160
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
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-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Try being first in line on Tuesday morning at the Aeromart tent at Oshkosh
. When they open the gate it is every man for himself, kind of like the cr
azy people that wait all night in line at Walmart on Black Friday. But ser
iously, there is a LOT of good stuff in there every year, including some
really neat vintage instruments sometimes.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: j_dunavin <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 22, 2010 11:28 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
also.. anyone know where i can buy vintage looking instruments?
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302160#302160
========================
===========
-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
========================
===========
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
========================
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Very nice panel there, dan.
And poplar grove isn't too far away from me...as I work in Rockford.
Thanks for the other info as well, but what about the corvair performance numbers??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302184#302184
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | Ameet Savant <ameetsavant(at)gmail.com> |
Does the duct tape leave any residue that may hinder the glue strength? I am
guessing not, but I don't know.
Alternatively, ShopNotes magazine suggests a two pass method to
reduce/elminate splintering. Raise the table saw blade just enough to cut
through one ply only on the first pass. Then raise it to cut through the
material on the second pass.
Ameet Savant
Omaha, NE
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
> I believe Mr. Kringle asked about preventing splinters in plywood.
>
> Today I cut a few hundred gusset pieces by first ripping long 7/8" wide
> strips (with the grain - no splinters), then stacking them up and duct
> taping them together with looong strips of duct tape. I only applied tape
> to the rear side of the stack which is where the ply likes to splinter.
> Voila! No splinters (well, considerably fewer).
>
> I also use a circular saw blade with 60 teeth - considerably more than a
> normal table saw blade.
>
> So, there ya go. Is there nothing duct tape can't be used for?
> Dan
>
> PS in the picture you can see some of the pieces I didn't duct tape
> together - splinters!
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
This must be an urgent question about the Corvair, since you went with two(!) question
marks. :)
Grab a cup of coffee or three and start reading through all the information at http://www.flycorvair.com. That will keep you occupied for a while, and is the best source for Corvair information, parts, etc in the Corvaircraft community, IMO.
Ryan
On Jun 23, 2010, at 6:23 AM, "j_dunavin" wrote:
>
> Very nice panel there, dan.
> And poplar grove isn't too far away from me...as I work in Rockford.
> Thanks for the other info as well, but what about the corvair performance numbers??
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302184#302184
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NX929DH progress report |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello good people,
Last evening was sublime. It was nice wx with light winds. I took her out
and did some more taxiing all over the airport. Tooled down to Lon Deinst
's (builder of a perfect Art Chester "Jeep" replica that will be judged at
Oshkosh this year) hangar and stopped to visit. I was telling him that I
thought my water temp might be running a little high at 185 degrees. He
called his son Eric who is a full time A & P and is actually the mechanic
for that blue and white Model A Piet that is for sale over at Dekalb (IL)
. I talked to Eric and he told me that the boys at Dekalb are experiencing
220 degrees water temp. So that made me feel a whole lot better about my
situation. BTW Eric is also helping Dan (the man) Yocum with his sick cyl
inder repair. After that, I started her back up (one pull) and continued
on over toward the museum (Vintage Wings and Wheels) and grass runway 17-
35. Ran into Steve Thomas (infamous airport owner of Poplar Grove) and we
stopped to chat and admire the Piet. He took my picture to include in the
airport websight. Started her back up (took two pulls this time) and cont
inued down to the end of the runway (wind was straight down the field) and
gave her some gun. As I was accelerating, I thought I would try to lift
off a little. Got about 3-4 ft. AGL, the wings started to pitch just slig
htly, and I thought Oh yea, now I have to use these (ailerons). Chopped po
wer and came down fine. Good test for the gear and bungee set-up. Repeated
this whole procedure three times. It is funny but even with all my taildr
agger time, I am still so apprehensive (don't say scared) about flying thi
s ship, that I have put my heart and soul into for ten long years. I will
continue down this slow path, getting the feel of her as I go, so that wh
en I really do decide to fly it will be sort of routine.
Only squawks that are materializing are that I am losing the little rubber
pads that I put between the axle and the ash blocks (bottom member of the
wood landing gear struts). So I am going to wrap a larger, piece of rubbe
r around the axle, and then wrap the bungee cords over the top of that, so
the rubber will be caught under the bungees.
At dinner last night it was my turn to give the blessing, and at the end
I thanked God for allowing me to lead such a blessed life, as to do such
frivolous things as build an airplane, and fly it.
Carry ON!!
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Landing gear pads |
Dan,
Many years ago I was working on a project that included horse barns and
stalls. A guy was installing rubber matting in the stalls and had quite a
few scraps that he gave me. Some of the 'scraps' were 3' square, big enough
to use as floor padding in my shop; others were considerably smaller. You
can see in the attachments that this stuff is about 1/2" thick and very
tough.
Free for me is free for you, if you're interested. I haven't figured out an
elegant way of finishing it, but I'm sure you can. Let me know if you are
interested.
BTW.3-4' off the ground counts as a TO, doesn't it?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(19 ribs down.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | What Prop is on your A-75? |
Ken;
I have a Culver 72x36 on my A75 Air Camper. I'll try to
get some actual performance numbers on it one of these
days and will post them here.
My tach reads high by varying amounts (higher as the RPM
goes up) so I need to check it with the PropTach again
and get a correction table so I won't throw out bad numbers
here.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | performance numbers and stall speeds vs. a/c weight |
Like Mikee, I have found that my Air Camper almost will not
stall with power on. I usually climb it to at least 2500-3000'
to play with stalls and it's always nice and cool up that
high, so I don't know what it will do down low and hot
but in controlled stall testing with power on, I can get
the nose pointed VERY high up and hold it there with the
ASI indicating down in ranges where it is obviously not
accurate (in the low 30s, even high 20s, but with needle
jumping due to buffet or propwash). If I hold 'er steady,
the nose will not drop or bob, and it won't
fall off to either side if I stay on the rudder. Just a
steady mush. It takes a lot of nerve to hold the stick
all the way back and power full on like that though.
I have not tried it with the A75 yet... those experiences
were with the 65.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim White" <aa5flyer(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
121.5s have been useless for years, too many going off for the FAA to track
down. The 406s must be registered, but I believe you'll be found because of
the GPS tracking. I've been carrying a 406 in my boat and airplanes.
Tim White
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9(at)countryspeed.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 9:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs
>
>
> This just came in a AVwebAlert email. I guess we're having too much fun,
> and federal government can't allow that. I could say more, but the proper
> words needed to describe this FCC action are not printable.
>
> Paul
>
>
> FCC BANS 121.5 ELTS
>
>
> The Federal Communications Commission took the general aviation world by
> surprise when it said in a recent report it will prohibit the sale or use
> of 121.5 MHz emergency locator transmitters, effective in August. The
> Aircraft Electronics Association said it just learned of the new rule
> today, and has begun working with the FAA, FCC and others to allow for
> timely compliance without grounding thousands of general aviation
> aircraft. The 121.5 ELTs are allowed under FAA rules. The FCC said its
> rules have been amended to "prohibit further certification, manufacture,
> importation, sale or use of 121.5 MHz ELTs." The FCC says that if the
> 121.5 units are no longer available, aircraft owners and operators will
> "migrate" to the newer 406.0-406.1 MHz ELTs, which are monitored by
> satellite, while the 121.5 frequency is not. "Were we to permit continued
> marketing and use of 121.5 MHz ELTs ... it would engender the risk that
> aircraft owners and operators would mistakenly rely on those ELTs!
> for the relay of distress alerts," the FCC says. AOPA said today it is
> opposed to the rule change.
>
> "The FCC is making a regulatory change that would impose an extra cost on
> GA operators, without properly communicating with the industry or
> understanding the implications of its action," said AOPA Vice President of
> Regulatory Affairs Rob Hackman. "There is no FAA requirement to replace
> 121.5 MHz units with 406 MHz technology. When two government agencies
> don't coordinate, GA can suffer." The AEA said dealers should refrain from
> selling any new 121.5 MHz ELTs "until further understanding of this new
> prohibition can be understood and a realistic timeline for transition can
> be established."
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301991#301991
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | NX929DH progress report |
Great supper time thanks in prayer Dan-- we are SO fortunate in this country to
be able to build, fly,
and navigate around this land with few real restrictions like they have in SO many
other countries that
make homebuilding and flying them a near impossibility.
Great to hear you're doing some crow hops. I found that actually flying the plane
as you would your Aeronca
Sedan on takeoff and landing is easier than the crow hops. Be prepared for a steeper
approach in your Piet
than your Sedan and much, much less float. I carried a bit more speed than needed
for my first dozen or so
landings so I could get the feel of the airplane in the flare and try to adjust
my height accordingly.
One of the biggest 1st Piet flight things that I wasn't expecting was how LOW you
get in the buttocks to the
ground to touch down compared to airplanes like your Sedan where you sit quite
a bit higher in the saddle.
Most first time Piet pilot landings tend to be about a foot off the ground where
the pilot 'feels' like he
is about to touch down. In the Piet you have to actually pretend that you're
landing without a landing gear.
Pretend like you're trying to grease on the belly of your airplane instead of the
wheels and you'll be surprised
at how good you do. My first few landings were 'drop-in's'.
I didn't put rubber pads under my axle but let the ash bearer do it's thing and
even after 12 years and many
landings there's only a slight indentation where the axle hits.
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Dan...what variety of wood is your panel made from? Stunning!
Scotty
Australia
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302204#302204
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | couple of new guy questions... |
Joe,
I used 21" Harley Sportster wheels, with the bearing removed and replaced
with a 1" bearing.
WARNING: Not flight tested; not taxi tested; not taco tested...but I
estimate that I have about 10 miles on it, just rolling it in and out of the
garage!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 9:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: couple of new guy questions...
I tried a search and found a lot of info, but had some specific questions.
1. what are the performance numbers, with a corvair motor. As in fuel burn,
clime rate, cruse, CG issues, the need of a special carb, can i burn 100LL,
ect.?
2. Is there a standard set up for wire wheels and brakes? I've seen talk
about buying this hub here and getting a rim there. Are there a set of known
good motorcycle wheels to use?
3. This may go with question 1, but what about gross weight? I'm concerned
that my dad and I both will not be able to fly in there as he is about 200
and I'm 225. Will we be OK so long as the gross weight does not exceed X
number? Is that number fluid, in that since we will have extra power with
the corvair motor we'll be ok?
4. I've seen a lot of guys use the O200... what are the advantages there?
Thanks for any input
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302154#302154
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I didn't ask about splintering but that is good information. I also understand
that some use an old fashion paper cutter which should prevent splintering.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302212#302212
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
On 06/23/2010 06:18 AM, Ameet Savant wrote:
> Does the duct tape leave any residue that may hinder the glue strength?
> I am guessing not, but I don't know.
>
> Alternatively, ShopNotes magazine suggests a two pass method to
> reduce/elminate splintering. Raise the table saw blade just enough to
> cut through one ply only on the first pass. Then raise it to cut through
> the material on the second pass.
Possibly. Raising the blade 1/32" of an inch would be an incredible
feat, though!
I tossed the one gusset that got some adhesive stuck to it.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
John,
I cut long strips using a straight edge and a box cutter. The strips varied
in width according to the location of the gussets. I then laid out my
gussets on the strips using a pre-cut pattern. The final trim was done with
a large paper cutter at work. For a few days this was my standard lunch
time diversion.
Using this method there is virtually no waste. You would be surprised at
how much waste is generated by the kerf with saw cuts.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: Kringle <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Date: 6/23/2010 9:01:45 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prevent splinters with duct tape
>
>
> I didn't ask about splintering but that is good information. I also
understand that some use an old fashion paper cutter which should prevent
splintering.
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302212#302212
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Dan - Agree with Mike that the first real takeoff was easier than the tail-up fast
taxiing.
I thumped my first landing. I added 10 mph on final (again, like Mike) and that
helped until I got a better feel for it.
Since you've got a bunch of taildragger time it'll be easy.
I'm delighted for you.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302224#302224
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Joe Ive posted reports at 20, 50 and 100 hours which you may find helpful.
Search the archives for kevinpurtee & youll find them.
However, in summary, and in the order you asked:
1) NX899KP (corvair) burns 5.2 gph with just me and 5.8 gph at gross. My range
is limited because I used the standard tank. Im ready to get out after 1:20
anyway. It climbs ~700 fpm at sea level at 75 degrees with just me. Not sure
what the actual rate of climb is at gross but its darn sure better than a C-150
on a hot day. Cruise is 75 mph. CG is not an issue. I extended my engine
mount an inch & moved the wing back 4 inches. My carb is a standard little airplane
carb. I burn 100LL exclusively.
2) No, there are no standard setups for wire wheels. Look at west coast piet pictures
for the various options. I bought my wheels from airdrome aeroplanes,
the tires from JC Whitney, my brake disks from a motorcycle junk yard, and the
brakes from a gokart place. At 115 hours & ~350 landings Im starting to pop
spokes on the brake side of the hub. Suspect thats from the really good brakes.
Im working through that.
3) NX899KP weighs 750 pounds empty and I set the gross at 1200. Its your choice.
I personally would take your dad flying in my plane on a reasonably calm day
and not worry about it. If you build your plane light (unlike mine) you should
be fine.
3) Im no expert on O200s but you cant beat certified for reliability.
Hope this helps,
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302228#302228
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
The paper cutter worked great. I picked up an old-school heavy duty
unit pretty cheap from some university's surplus equipment disposal office.
Ryan
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Kringle wrote:
>
> I didn't ask about splintering but that is good information. I also
> understand that some use an old fashion paper cutter which should prevent
> splintering.
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302212#302212
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Hi
If you are seriously considering a Corvair as a power plant, PLEASE talk to William
Wynne at flycorvair.com. Buy his conversion manual and read it cover to
cover. He explains all the good and bad about it and is a character in and of
himself, though he probably would disagree. His customer support is a thing
of beauty if a bit unusual.
If you can get to Brodhead, he'll be there along with a number of other people
who have real actual time behind the engine in Piets. Talk to them to get ground
truth and not anecdotal BS. It's not a perfect engine but I built one anyway.
Sits on my bench ready to run as soon as I can get a stand.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302231#302231
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dick Dery <dickdery(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elt regulations |
On 06/22/2010 05:16 PM, shad bell wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: shad
> bell
>
> I haven't read it for a while but I know single place aircraft are
> not required to carry one.
>
> Shad
>
The fact that a Pietenpol is flown without a passenger does not make it
a single-place aircraft. Ask a DAR, or the FAA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What Prop is on your A-75? |
| From: | "ldmill" <lorin.miller(at)emerson.com> |
Hi Dave,
I've got a McCauley 70x38 metal prop. I've not benchmarked my tach rpm since I
got the plane last month - should probably do so to confirm the reading. That
being said, the plane performs quite well and I'm happy with it. I've not measured
climb rate yet, will do so soon. I've wondered if maybe going to a 72x38
would gain anything - but don't want to spend the cash on a test that at best
will have margin improvement I think.
Lorin
--------
Lorin Miller
Waiex N81YX
GN-1 N30PP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302255#302255
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
A timely discussion as my first sheet of plywood from Aircraft Spruce came today!
However, I am still waiting for riblett 612 plans and am assuming the gussets
may be of different size and shape.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302270#302270
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
Waiting for Riblett 612 plans? Where from? They're online in various
places, including the pietenpol-list archives. Ivan Todorovic posted
them in both pdf and dxf in this thread:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276573&sid=3af2e95b26eefd31b73ec7797816e0a3
Take the pdf to Kinkos and have them print it out on their big printer,
or loft it yourself on red rosin paper from Home Depot, in the flooring
section. The coordinates can be found, here:
http://mikesbabyace.wordpress.com/wings/
The center of the front spar should be 6"1/2 from the LE, if I remember
correctly. The center of the rear spar should be 28 3/4 from the center
of the front spar. I'm using 3/4" thick spars.
You can get away with using 4 sizes of gussets: 360 of 7/8" x 7/8"
square, 480 of 7/8" x 1"1/2, then 60 each of for the LE
piece and 60 each of for the TE wedge.
Dan
On 06/23/2010 03:25 PM, Kringle wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle"
>
> A timely discussion as my first sheet of plywood from Aircraft Spruce came today!
However, I am still waiting for riblett 612 plans and am assuming the gussets
may be of different size and shape.
>
> --------
> John
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302270#302270
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Plans ordered from Roman Burkolt.
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302283#302283
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Tom I got a great fix for you-I'll swap you this Corvair engine and prop for that
85 Continental even up and you can mount it in closer and have a starter to
boot. and I'll prop that old Continental. now how can you turn down a deal like
that! Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302294#302294
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
LE to rear of front spar is 7"1/2 not 6"1/2.
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jun 23, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:
> Waiting for Riblett 612 plans? Where from? They're online in
> various places, including the pietenpol-list archives. Ivan
> Todorovic posted them in both pdf and dxf in this thread:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=276573&sid=3af2e95b26eefd31b73ec7797816e0a3
>
> Take the pdf to Kinkos and have them print it out on their big
> printer, or loft it yourself on red rosin paper from Home Depot, in
> the flooring section. The coordinates can be found, here:
>
> http://mikesbabyace.wordpress.com/wings/
>
> The center of the front spar should be 6"1/2 from the LE, if I
> remember correctly. The center of the rear spar should be 28 3/4
> from the center of the front spar. I'm using 3/4" thick spars.
>
> You can get away with using 4 sizes of gussets: 360 of 7/8" x 7/8"
> square, 480 of 7/8" x 1"1/2, then 60 each of for the LE
> piece and 60 each of for the TE wedge.
>
> Dan
>
> On 06/23/2010 03:25 PM, Kringle wrote:
>> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle"
>>
>> A timely discussion as my first sheet of plywood from Aircraft
>> Spruce came today! However, I am still waiting for riblett 612
>> plans and am assuming the gussets may be of different size and shape.
>>
>> --------
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302270#302270
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Propping a Corvair |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Have any of you that have the Corvairs with distributors had any luck, or tried
hand propping them? I'm sure it can be done but maybe not nearly as easy as a
magneto engine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302317#302317
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
I've hand propped mind. It's a real pain but it can be done. Great workout.
Kevin Purtee
NX899KP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302321#302321
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | gluing the fuselage |
| From: | "bcolleran" <bcolleran(at)comcast.net> |
OK all I have my entire right side of the fuselage laid out. Do you recommend
gluing the gussets on while it is in the jig or after I pull it out? I know there
are two different sets of gussets for the inside and out. Would really like
to wait and out the big gusset on last so I can work inside the fuselage without
having to crawl and bend.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302326#302326
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0605_159.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I agree with Kevin. I had the opportunity to prop the Last Original at
Brodhead, and there we're talking a Bernard based conversion with hundreds
of hours on it, not a tight new engine. It was a pain in the ass compared to
the other engines you are likely to be propping on a Piet (i.e. small
Continentals). I've propped a number of different kinds of engines in my
time, and I would put the Corvair in on the "less favored" side. I suppose
the closest analogue I've propped was a Continental O-300, another 6
cylinder.
The Corvair's six cylinders make it more difficult to clearly find one
coming up on compression, and when you swing the prop it is difficult to get
it to turn that far at all before it grinds to a halt. Myself and another
gentleman wore ourselves out on the Last Original before Tom Brown took
mercy on us and showed up the proper technique. He stood in close to the
prop and "choked up" on the blade, moving his hands down closer to the hub.
By giving a good hearty swing with that technique he was able to get much
greater rotation, and eventually got it started.
Obviously the Corvair can be propped. Many have done it, and there are those
that continue to do it with no problem. If they are comfortable with it,
more power to them. When we were pursuing our Corvair I originally wanted a
hand-prop engine, as that was more "old-school" and more aligned with what I
felt a Piet should have. After having the chance to prop a Corvair I gave up
on that notion: it is not something I would want to deal with every time I
go flying.
I want to say William Wynne wrote in his manual or on his website that he
prefers starters on Corvairs because you can just calmly go about your
business preparing to go flying, and when you are ready you just turn the
key/push a button and you can start the engine. You will be in a more
calm/focused/less agitated state of mind than if you had just spend 5
minutes at the prop getting a work out. You can argue that he is just trying
to sell starter setups, but I think there is validity to his point.
Have a good night!
Ryan
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:27 PM, kevinpurtee wrote:
> kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil>
>
> I've hand propped mind. It's a real pain but it can be done. Great
> workout.
>
> Kevin Purtee
> NX899KP
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302321#302321
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gluing the fuselage |
| From: | "carson" <carsonvella(at)yahoo.com.au> |
Hi Bill
I have done that glued on all the small gussets and left the sides open
Carson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302344#302344
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/peitenpol_093_345.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Thanks for all the replies! That really helps point my dad and I in the right direction.
MAN I want to get over there this weekend and start cutting some wood!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302345#302345
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs |
When I first bought my Cub, it didn't have an ELT. I went through the same inquiries,
and the folks I queried (my favorite old-timer flight instructor, a few
others, and the FSDO) said solo flights were considered practice and could be
considered training. All bets are off when there's a body in the front seat.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Mueller
Sent: Jun 22, 2010 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: FCC bans 121.5 ELTs
Only problem there is that you would not be engaged in training....you can't give
yourself flight training in your own airplane. :P
(f)(4) says: Aircraft while engaged in flight operations incident to design and
testing.
That would probably be the line that would allow you to get by without one for
Phase I. However you would have to have one for phase II; anecdotal statements
out there on the 'net seem to indicate that the DAR/FAA rep may very well only
give you a Limited Airworthiness Certificate for Phase I flight with no ELT,
and may want to come back out to inspect the ELT installation before issuing
your Special Airworthiness Cert. Since you are going to have to spend the money
anyway it might be worth it to get the ELT and install it before the airplane
is finished, to avoid hassle later on
It may be worthwhile to figure out which FSDO/DAR you will be using, and give them
a call and run it by them as well.
Ryan
On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
I don't know if this will allow me to go ahead and get my phase 1 Airworthiness
without going bankrupt or not-but here may be one loophole for me at the start.
There may be another loop-hole. FAR 91.207 (f)(3)...
(f) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to
(3) Aircraft while engaged in training operations conducted entirely within a
50-nautical mile radius of the airport from which such local flight operations
began;
Read this topic online here:
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==========
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Before Radar |
Where do you guys think Ted Geisel got his inspirations, anyhow?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Macklem
Sent: Jun 22, 2010 8:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Before Radar
Interesting to know how potention air attacks were detected before Radar. Some
of you may have used this equipment, but it was considerably before my time.:-))
Allan Macklem
"I have the plans"
These look like a joke, but were actual
"hearing aids" to detect airplanes.....
Before Radar, How Were Air Attacks Detected?
With old time hearing aids!
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -ON A SWIVEL
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -GERMAN
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -ON WHEELS
STRANGE ACOUSTIC "EARS" BEFORE RADAR -ENGLAND
Release Date: 06/09/10 13:35:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Ash <ashcan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
An alternative method I use is to provide a junk backing material behind the stuff
you care about. But it's gotta be snug up against the good stuff; the compression
from the material minimizes splintering. This technique has much broader
use; last weekend, I backed some 1/8" steel with an old hardwood block when
drilling it to minimize the mess on the back side of the hole and reduce my de-burring
hassles. Match-drilling multiple pieces automatically provides this
benefit (except for the bottom piece) when you can do it.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Kringle <Mrkringles(at)msn.com>
>Sent: Jun 23, 2010 4:25 PM
>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prevent splinters with duct tape
>
>
>A timely discussion as my first sheet of plywood from Aircraft Spruce came today!
However, I am still waiting for riblett 612 plans and am assuming the gussets
may be of different size and shape.
>
>--------
>John
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302270#302270
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gluing the fuselage |
I glued on all the small gussets while still in the jig. Unless you
make a jig for left and right, you really can't put the forward fuselage
skin on while in the jig. I can't really remember what I did here, but
it would be a good idea to have the inner gussets on the side without
the forward skin, just to help hold the shape.
BEn Charvet
On 6/23/2010 11:27 PM, bcolleran wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "bcolleran"
>
> OK all I have my entire right side of the fuselage laid out. Do you recommend
gluing the gussets on while it is in the jig or after I pull it out? I know
there are two different sets of gussets for the inside and out. Would really
like to wait and out the big gusset on last so I can work inside the fuselage
without having to crawl and bend.
>
> Bill
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302326#302326
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0605_159.jpg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pietn38b(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
I have been hand propping my two corvair powered aircraft for over 20
years. Each one uses a slightly different routine due to having different
carbs and intake system. I do not feel they are any more difficult to start than
a mag equipped engine.
Jim Ballew
_pietn38b(at)aol.com_ (mailto:pietn38b(at)aol.com)
In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:03:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "skellytown flyer"
Have any of you that have the Corvairs with distributors had any luck, or
tried hand propping them? I'm sure it can be done but maybe not nearly as
easy as a magneto engine.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302317#302317
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | gluing the fuselage |
Like the others said, glue on all the gussets you can while it is in the
jig. You can leave off the side plywood until you finish the inside work.
It will stay together just fine. Mine was without the side plywood for
years. In this picture you can see I have the seats installed and still no
side plywood.
http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%20Tracy/side_view_of_fuselage_3.jpg
Look at the pictures in the first three rows and you will see my fuselage
under construction
http://westcoastpiet.com/chris_tracy.htm
Also, consider not attaching the firewall plywood until your done with the
engine. Mine is just tacked on to help hold the fuselages shape.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bcolleran
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gluing the fuselage
-->
OK all I have my entire right side of the fuselage laid out. Do you
recommend gluing the gussets on while it is in the jig or after I pull it
out? I know there are two different sets of gussets for the inside and out.
Would really like to wait and out the big gusset on last so I can work
inside the fuselage without having to crawl and bend.
Bill
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302326#302326
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Jim Ballew! Haven't seen you in a while! Hope to see you at the Burger Bash this
Sunday.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302383#302383
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
I've seen some use the round gussets. Is this an acceptable method of construction?
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302404#302404
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
On 06/24/2010 02:48 PM, Kringle wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Kringle"
>
> I've seen some use the round gussets. Is this an acceptable method of construction?
Bingelis says yes.
Though it does waste a bit of wood in the process.
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOM STINEMETZE" <TOMS(at)mcpcity.com> |
Here's a question for you metal workers out there. The split axle gear
plans show the top of the two pipes forming the "A" frame member being
"flattened" prior to cutting at the proper angle and having the bearing
lugs welded on. How does someone do this flattening if you do not have
access to a hydraulic press? Is it acceptable to heat the metal and then
flatten with a vise or hammer?
Tom
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Split Axle Gear |
I welded a flat piece of 4130 at the appropriate angle...too complex and probably
added WAY too much additional weight :-) Kidding about the weight but it added
a bit of un-needed complexity.
Next time I'll heat and bend...per Tony B.
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM STINEMETZE
Sent: Jun 24, 2010 3:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Gear
Here's a question for you metal workers out there. The split axle gear plans show
the top of the two pipes forming the "A" frame member being "flattened" prior
to cutting at the proper angle and having the bearing lugs welded on. How
does someone do this flattening if you do not have access to a hydraulic press?
Is it acceptable to heat the metal and then flatten with a vise or hammer?
Tom
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
It would seem to me that you would want the round gusset to contact as much wood
as the standard do. That would me more plywood to make the gussets and more
square inches (surface area) for each gusset. Agree?
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302411#302411
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: prevent splinters with duct tape |
| From: | "echobravo4" <eab4(at)comcast.net> |
i thought it would be easier to just cut out a bunch of circles for gussets, but,
when i saw how much wood they wasted i went back to cutting out the square
ones. i just sized them up to account for the saw kerfs when i laid them out
so i can just "cut on the lines"
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302413#302413
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
That's something I have wondered about when its time for my first flight,
whether its best to crow hop down the runway several times or just get it in
the air and away from the hard ground as quickly as possible (always well
above stall speed of course in case of engine problems). Sounds like its
done both ways by a lot of people.
rick
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]"
>
> Great supper time thanks in prayer Dan-- we are SO fortunate in this
> country to be able to build, fly,
> and navigate around this land with few real restrictions like they have in
> SO many other countries that
> make homebuilding and flying them a near impossibility.
>
> Great to hear you're doing some crow hops. I found that actually flying
> the plane as you would your Aeronca
> Sedan on takeoff and landing is easier than the crow hops. Be prepared for
> a steeper approach in your Piet
> than your Sedan and much, much less float. I carried a bit more speed
> than needed for my first dozen or so
> landings so I could get the feel of the airplane in the flare and try to
> adjust my height accordingly.
>
> One of the biggest 1st Piet flight things that I wasn't expecting was how
> LOW you get in the buttocks to the
> ground to touch down compared to airplanes like your Sedan where you sit
> quite a bit higher in the saddle.
>
> Most first time Piet pilot landings tend to be about a foot off the ground
> where the pilot 'feels' like he
> is about to touch down. In the Piet you have to actually pretend that
> you're landing without a landing gear.
> Pretend like you're trying to grease on the belly of your airplane instead
> of the wheels and you'll be surprised
> at how good you do. My first few landings were 'drop-in's'.
>
> I didn't put rubber pads under my axle but let the ash bearer do it's thing
> and even after 12 years and many
> landings there's only a slight indentation where the axle hits.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Scotty
Looks like your project is coming along great. You have the first
Corvair/Piet I have seen with a 5th bearing, which one did you use? I am
still trying to decide if I want to spend the extra $1200 usd. And I thought
I was the only Piet with an MGL E1 engine monitor but you beat me to it! You
Aussies are really into that modern technology (except for the Pietenpol
itself of course).
rick
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:28 AM, bubbleboy wrote:
> scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au>
>
> Dan...what variety of wood is your panel made from? Stunning!
>
> Scotty
> Australia
>
> --------
> Scotty
>
> Tamworth, Australia
> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> www.scottyspietenpol.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302204#302204
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | H RULE <harvey.rule(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
When I flew my GN-1 for the first time,it was the first time on type for me
and the first time for that airplane to be flown.I find too many problems
with crow hopps.Hard landings etc.I just got in it and flew it.It flew as a
dvertized.Nothing new, nothing different.Because the wing is J3 it flew ver
y much like my N3 Pup except faster.I made one circuit and landed and thoug
ht about everything-I had just done.My thoughts were full of "lets do tha
t again real soon like``!I did a few days after.Some people say you should
have experience on type before flying.I believe with the exception of a few
odd things most stick and rudder planes fly the same as any other.Keep it
simple and don`t try any funny stuff till you get to know her.-=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail
.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, June 24, 2010 4:53:53
PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH progress report=0A=0AThat's some
thing I have wondered about when its time for my first flight, whether its
best to crow hop down the runway several times or just get it in the air an
d away from the hard ground as quickly as possible (always well above stall
speed of course in case of engine problems). Sounds like its done both way
s by a lot of people.=0A=0Arick =0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:09 AM, C
uy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] =0A>=0A>Great s
upper time thanks in prayer Dan-- we are SO fortunate in this country to be
able to build, fly,=0A>and navigate around this land with few real restric
tions like they have in SO many other countries that=0A>make homebuilding a
nd flying them a near impossibility.=0A>=0A>Great to hear you're doing some
crow hops. - I found that actually flying the plane as you would your Ae
ronca=0A>Sedan on takeoff and landing is easier than the crow hops. -Be p
repared for a steeper approach in your Piet=0A>than your Sedan and much, mu
ch less float. - I carried a bit more speed than needed for my first doze
n or so=0A>landings so I could get the feel of the airplane in the flare an
d try to adjust my height accordingly.=0A>=0A>One of the biggest 1st Piet f
light things that I wasn't expecting was how LOW you get in the buttocks to
the=0A>ground to touch down compared to airplanes like your Sedan where yo
u sit quite a bit higher in the saddle.=0A>=0A>Most first time Piet pilot l
andings tend to be about a foot off the ground where the pilot 'feels' like
he=0A>is about to touch down. - In the Piet you have to actually pretend
that you're landing without a landing gear.=0A>Pretend like you're trying
to grease on the belly of your airplane instead of the wheels and you'll be
surprised=0A>at how good you do. - My first few landings were 'drop-in's
'.=0A>=0A>I didn't put rubber pads under my axle but let the ash bearer do
it's thing and even after 12 years and many=0A>landings there's only a slig
ht indentation where the axle hits.=0A>=0A>Mike C.=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>============0A>st" target="_blank">http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>==========
==0A>http://forums.matronics.com=0A>============0A>
le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=
===========0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0ARick Holland
=0ACastle Rock, Colorado=0A=0A"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that sm
=======================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Split Axle Gear |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Howdy Tom
I didn't flatten the ends of the A frame pieces just indented them a small
amount by beating it with a big hammer (no heat). I welded in a piece to
close the end to prevent water from getting in.
rick
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:16 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Here's a question for you metal workers out there. The split axle gear
> plans show the top of the two pipes forming the "A" frame member being
> "flattened" prior to cutting at the proper angle and having the bearing lugs
> welded on. How does someone do this flattening if you do not have access to
> a hydraulic press? Is it acceptable to heat the metal and then flatten with
> a vise or hammer?*
>
> *Tom*
> *N328X*
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
Hi, on my subaru I filed the slots in the distributor advance weights longer
so static there is 0 advance, at idle it goes up to 8 degrees. It starts
very easily with no kick back when pulling through slowly and it runs well.
I think this would aid in hand propping a corvair as well.
Regards Mike T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
Sorry to be dense, but what slots are you talking about and why would
filing them alter the advance? Is it just the result of drilling
lowering the mass of the advance weights? Thanks, Jeff
>
>
>Hi, on my subaru I filed the slots in the distributor advance weights longer
>so static there is 0 advance, at idle it goes up to 8 degrees. It starts
>very easily with no kick back when pulling through slowly and it runs well.
>I think this would aid in hand propping a corvair as well.
>Regards Mike T.
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Tunnicliffe" <zk-owl(at)CLEAR.NET.NZ> |
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
Hi Jeff, extending the slots allows the springs to pull the weights in
closer to the distributor shaft, this causes the cam to be retarded when the
engine is not running. Very little material is removed. On the Subaru
distributor there is a little room between the weights and the shaft at
static, I don't know if this can easily be done on the Corvair distributor.
The modification has transformed the Subaru when hand propping, I consider
it to be much safer as well, due to less effort being required to prop the
engine, it usually starts first blade when primed.
Hope this helps, Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri(at)emory.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Propping a Corvair
>
> Sorry to be dense, but what slots are you talking about and why would
> filing them alter the advance? Is it just the result of drilling lowering
> the mass of the advance weights? Thanks, Jeff
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>Hi, on my subaru I filed the slots in the distributor advance weights
>>longer
>>so static there is 0 advance, at idle it goes up to 8 degrees. It starts
>>very easily with no kick back when pulling through slowly and it runs
>>well.
>>I think this would aid in hand propping a corvair as well.
>>Regards Mike T.
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Propping a Corvair |
Mike,
Thanks much. I learned something today -- now I can go back to my nap! :)
Jeff
>
>Hi Jeff, extending the slots allows the springs to pull the weights
>in closer to the distributor shaft, this causes the cam to be
>retarded when the engine is not running. Very little material is
>removed. On the Subaru distributor there is a little room between
>the weights and the shaft at static, I don't know if this can easily
>be done on the Corvair distributor. The modification has transformed
>the Subaru when hand propping, I consider it to be much safer as
>well, due to less effort being required to prop the engine, it
>usually starts first blade when primed.
>Hope this helps, Mike T.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NX929DH Progress report |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hello all,
Well, I was out and about this evening just trying to taxi around and put
some more time on the engine. After I had taxied for some time, I stopped
at a friends for a moment and shut down the engine. Tried to start it up
again and it would not kick over as it had done in the last few days. Gav
e it a shot of prime and it started right up. I noticed also that at the
slowest idle, she wanted to quit. So when I got back to base, I consulted
with the Model A guru (across the taxiway) and he concluded that the quic
ky carb cleaning we did the other day was not sufficient, and that we need
to dismantle the entire carb tomorrow to do a thorough cleaning in some
magic carb cleaner he has. So that is what we will do. Stay tuned to this
station.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | local evening flight |
Tonight was a nice calm evening and I took advantage. I had about half fuel, and
by belly was just about full enough to give me a perfect c/g (no trim system).
I flew for about 30 min, and at least 10 of those without touching the stick.
Both arms out and down gave me a decent pitch up, arms above the wing nosed
down, both arms out the same side would give a little roll in the opposite
direction. I have a lot of flight time to catch up on this year, due to building
the hanger addition. I won't make brodhead, or probably any other big fly-ins
this year, but I will try to fly the fabric off the ole girl any chance
I get. The old corvair seems to be running like a top, knock, knock...on wood
that is, The latex paint is latexing, and the flux capacitor is fluxing at
1.21 gigiwatts, if I get the time circuts fixed I am going back to 1932 Cherry
Grove, to say thanks to old B.H. Pietenpol for one kick ass airplane design.
Shad
p.s. I thought about doing a half hour elt check while flying around, just to see
if anyone would notice.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
got another one... So if i read the FAR's correctly, would the piet be considered
an ELSA? I mean that's what it would be registered as?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302441#302441
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Pietenpols are considered "Experimental amateur-built", and can be flown by
sport pilots as long as the particular Piet meets the criteria for a light
sport aircraft, which the design does unless you really screw it up. :P
Ryan
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:15 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> got another one... So if i read the FAR's correctly, would the piet be
> considered an ELSA? I mean that's what it would be registered as?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302441#302441
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Hi Rick...yes the Piet is progressing slowly. Received a box of Corvair parts yesterday
so will clean those ready to fit. I dont have a Fifth Bearing yet but
am looking at Dan Weseman's unit. Looks nice and easily fitted. Im not anywhere
near that stage yet so see what comes up when I need it. I havent decided on
the engine management unit yet. I like the idea of monitoring all 6 cylinders
hence I was looking at that unit. I would like to speak to anyone who has one
to see how it goes. I have all the other instruments here. I do love the old
stuff but am a realist when it comes to monitoring the life threatening parts
of the plane...lol
Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302450#302450
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | ELT Story from AOPA |
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) June 15 released the notice of a
rule prohibiting the "certification, manufacture, importation, sale, or
continued use of 121.5 MHz ELTs." The rule would suddenly make aircraft that
are in full compliance with the federal aviation regulations in violation of
federal communications law.
"At this time, we caution anyone against purchasing a new ELT until this
issue is resolved," said AOPA Vice President of Regulatory Affairs Rob
Hackman. "There's a lot of misunderstanding at this time as to the status of
this rule. As verified by the FCC, the rule has not been published in the
Federal Register, and thereby no effective date can be determined. This
provides AOPA and the general aviation industry the opportunity to address
our concerns with the FCC and potentially influence the outcome."
14 CFR Part 91.207 currently requires aircraft to carry a fixed ELT, but
does not specify either 121.5 or 406 MHz. The FCC's change to 47 CFR Part 87
would outlaw the use of the former-effectively forcing general aviation
aircraft owners to buy the 406 MHz ELT. The rule would go into effect 60
days after publication in the Federal Register. AOPA is aggressively
pursuing all options to have the FCC and FAA delay and re-evaluate the rule,
highlighting the economic and operational impact to the more than 220,000
aircraft in the GA fleet, most of whom still carry the 121.5 MHz ELTs.
"The FCC is making a regulatory change that would impose an extra cost on GA
operators, without properly communicating with the industry or understanding
the implications of its action," Hackman said. "There is no FAA requirement
to replace 121.5 MHz units with 406 MHz technology. When two government
agencies don't coordinate, GA can suffer."
Both the 121.5 MHz and 406 MHz ELTs meet the FAA's regulatory requirements
if manufactured to the proper technical standard order. While satellites no
longer monitor the 121.5 MHz frequency as of Feb. 1, 2009, the frequency is
monitored by ATC, the military, and other pilots. AOPA is exploring all
avenues of action to address this rule before it goes into effect.
It would be impossible to outfit all aircraft in the timeframe of the FCC
rule and cost prohibitive for GA aircraft owners. The rule highlights the
fact that threats to GA can come from many different areas, Hackman said.
Government agencies outside of the FAA don't necessarily understand the
effects of their actions on aviation, and poor communication can compound
the problem. In addition to the unnecessary cost, this ruling also raises
the question of the legality of the 406 MHz ELTs because they also transmit
a low-power signal on 121.5 MHz to allow the search-and-rescue community to
home as part of the rescue process.
Jack
DSM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Sounds like the 5th bearing conversion is almost a necessity?
I didn't think the corvair motor took that much conversion to make it an airplane
engine.
Should I consider other power plant options?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302453#302453
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
Just a quick comment.
We have 4 guys building Corvairs here locally, and all of us consider
Roy's 5th bearing to be a better design. Three of us hosted a
Corvair College here about 5 years ago & have been very involved in
the Corvair community. One is a professional performance engine
builder. I'm the least qualified to comment of the 4 as I've only
rebuilt a couple of engines in my day. Of course, you'll pay more &
it may not be an option for you, since Roy likes to fit each bearing
to each case for best precision and fit.
Kip Gardner
On Jun 25, 2010, at 5:33 AM, bubbleboy wrote:
>
>
> Hi Rick...yes the Piet is progressing slowly. Received a box of
> Corvair parts yesterday so will clean those ready to fit. I dont
> have a Fifth Bearing yet but am looking at Dan Weseman's unit.
> Looks nice and easily fitted. Im not anywhere near that stage yet
> so see what comes up when I need it. I havent decided on the engine
> management unit yet. I like the idea of monitoring all 6 cylinders
> hence I was looking at that unit. I would like to speak to anyone
> who has one to see how it goes. I have all the other instruments
> here. I do love the old stuff but am a realist when it comes to
> monitoring the life threatening parts of the plane...lol
>
> Scotty
>
> --------
> Scotty
>
> Tamworth, Australia
> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
>
> www.scottyspietenpol.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302450#302450
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Split Axle Gear |
Thats what I did. If you look carefully you can still see the hammer
marks. The metal was too thick for the vise to work.
Ben
On 6/24/2010 4:16 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:
> *Here's a question for you metal workers out there. The split axle
> gear plans show the top of the two pipes forming the "A" frame member
> being "flattened" prior to cutting at the proper angle and having the
> bearing lugs welded on. How does someone do this flattening if you do
> not have access to a hydraulic press? Is it acceptable to heat the
> metal and then flatten with a vise or hammer?*
> *Tom*
> *N328X*
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
From what I had read before hand, it was better just to fly. Crow hops
end up being several landings in a row, and I couldn't see any
advantage. The FAA has a great advisory circular about how to do your
flight testing, that every builder should read. Basically it says to do
a high speed taxi test fast enough to make sure you have aileron
authority, then just fly it up to 3000 ft before you level off.. Then
practice landing flares at altitude to get an idea what the slow speed
handling characteristics are _while still at altitude._ Setting up your
first landing from the traffic pattern is probably safer than doing it
from 6 ft. I followed the advisory circular, and was glad that I did.
Your results may vary...
Ben
On 6/24/2010 4:53 PM, Rick Holland wrote:
> That's something I have wondered about when its time for my first
> flight, whether its best to crow hop down the runway several times or
> just get it in the air and away from the hard ground as quickly as
> possible (always well above stall speed of course in case of engine
> problems). Sounds like its done both ways by a lot of people.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | NX929DH progress report |
I agree completely, Ben. I think crow hops are useless and dangerous. With
any flight test, there should be an objective to the test. What is the
objective to a crow hop? To see if you can control the airplane at its
least controllable moment, when you have a total of 2 seconds flight time in
it? What have you learned if you do it successfully, that couldn't be
learend better making a stabilized approach from altitude?
Having said that, I actually did an inadvertant crow hop when I was doing a
high speed taxi test (high altitude taxi test?) in my Pietenpol. I ran it
down the runway to about 40 mph and lifted the tail to test directional
control. I was not prepared to fly and did not have my goggles on. At
about 40 mph, 8 years worth of dirt and sawdust came boiling up out of all
the nooks and crannies of the cockpit and got in my eyes. Next thing I
knew, I was flying about 8 feet off the ground. I chopped the throttle and
landed, uneventfully. The point of this story is that any time you are
moving the airplane close to flying speed, be prepared to FLY it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH progress report
>From what I had read before hand, it was better just to fly. Crow hops end
up being several landings in a row, and I couldn't see any advantage. The
FAA has a great advisory circular about how to do your flight testing, that
every builder should read. Basically it says to do a high speed taxi test
fast enough to make sure you have aileron authority, then just fly it up to
3000 ft before you level off.. Then practice landing flares at altitude to
get an idea what the slow speed handling characteristics are while still at
altitude. Setting up your first landing from the traffic pattern is
probably safer than doing it from 6 ft. I followed the advisory circular,
and was glad that I did. Your results may vary...
Ben
On 6/24/2010 4:53 PM, Rick Holland wrote:
That's something I have wondered about when its time for my first flight,
whether its best to crow hop down the runway several times or just get it in
the air and away from the hard ground as quickly as possible (always well
above stall speed of course in case of engine problems). Sounds like its
done both ways by a lot of people.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
J_dunavin,
(BTW, do you have a name?),
I'm not a fan of the corvair conversions, as others on this list know. The
design requirements of an automobile engine are totally different from those
of an aircraft engine. Auto engines are simply not designed to operate at
or near full power for more than a few seconds at a time, where an airplane
engine must do so continuously, and reliably.
So to use an auto engine conversion, it must offer advantages over available
aircraft engines. I have a 65 horsepower Continental aircraft engine in
mine and I made it essentially a brand new engine for a total cost of $7500.
With all the mods that must be made to a Corvair to make it somewhat
reliable, I doubt you can do it for much less than $7500.
You can buy a running, serviceable (even though close to overhaul)
Continental for $3500 and get several years of flying behind it before
needing to overhaul it.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:25 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Sounds like the 5th bearing conversion is almost a necessity?
I didn't think the corvair motor took that much conversion to make it an
airplane engine.
Should I consider other power plant options?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302453#302453
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I agree with Jack, insofar as how his comments apply to auto engine conversions
in general. However, there are a couple of his points that I feel cannot be fairly
applied to the Corvair specifically. I'll address the WW based conversion,
as I think it's safe to say it is the most popular.
Operation at or near full power continuously: the WW based Corvair conversion produces
full power (approx 100hp) at a far lower RPM than full power in the car.
Corvair engines in the auto role redline around 5,500. In the aircraft conversion
you are turning, in a Piet, low 3,000s at most at full throttle. The engine
is essentially being derated and not stressed to produce it's power like
some other auto conversions might be.
Cost: I agree with Jack that you can overhaul an A-65 for just as much, or even
less than what a full boat Corvair overhaul is goon to cost you. However I feel
this a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, as you are talking a 65hp engine
versus a 100hp engine. A fairer comparison would be the cost of a proper
overhaul/conversion of a Corvair versus the cost of acquisition and a good overhaul
on an 0-200. In that case the Corvair is a less expensive alternative.
The nice thing about a Piet is that it certainly does not need 100hp to fly. If
you did not need or want 100hp for your Piet, then you can go with an A-65 and
have a solid, reliable aircraft engine for what (I feel) a very well built Corvair
would cost. If you need/want that 100hp, then the Corvair is a viable alternative
to the expense of an O-200.
My two cents. :)
Ryan
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 25, 2010, at 8:10 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:
>
> J_dunavin,
>
> (BTW, do you have a name?),
>
> I'm not a fan of the corvair conversions, as others on this list know. The
> design requirements of an automobile engine are totally different from those
> of an aircraft engine. Auto engines are simply not designed to operate at
> or near full power for more than a few seconds at a time, where an airplane
> engine must do so continuously, and reliably.
>
> So to use an auto engine conversion, it must offer advantages over available
> aircraft engines. I have a 65 horsepower Continental aircraft engine in
> mine and I made it essentially a brand new engine for a total cost of $7500.
> With all the mods that must be made to a Corvair to make it somewhat
> reliable, I doubt you can do it for much less than $7500.
>
> You can buy a running, serviceable (even though close to overhaul)
> Continental for $3500 and get several years of flying behind it before
> needing to overhaul it.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Raleigh, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:25 AM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
>
>
> Sounds like the 5th bearing conversion is almost a necessity?
> I didn't think the corvair motor took that much conversion to make it an
> airplane engine.
> Should I consider other power plant options?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302453#302453
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris" <catdesigns(at)att.net> |
My experience with working with 4130 has shown that it is better to heat and
flatten then to do it cold. When doing it cold I got numerous fine cracks
in the tubing. When heated to a nice orange color it bends like butter in a
vice and no cracks. I personally would not hit tubing with a hammer when
hot. The heat needed to bend should have no effect on the strength of the
metal.
Chris
Sacramento, Ca
Westcoastpiet.com
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
STINEMETZE
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 1:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Gear
Here's a question for you metal workers out there. The split axle gear
plans show the top of the two pipes forming the "A" frame member being
"flattened" prior to cutting at the proper angle and having the bearing lugs
welded on. How does someone do this flattening if you do not have access to
a hydraulic press? Is it acceptable to heat the metal and then flatten with
a vise or hammer?
Tom
N328X
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Willis <timothywillis(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
I believe both Ryan and Jack are right-- each in his own way. First let me say
that I'd never argue with Jack Phillips on anything aero. Now I am going to
sound like an economist: "on the other hand."
Re the Corvair, the problems some have had with un-nitrided crankshafts, cooling
and other mechanical problems show that there are ways to be unhappy with what
sounds like a great idea-- a zero time 100 hp engine for about $8K, maybe quite
a bit less, with good scrounging and personal wrench work.
Shad Bell, a great machanic and flier, had his Corvair problems in 2007-08, but
he licked them through intelligent and repeated fixes. Many Pieters don't have
that rigor, though. Shad lives aviation and machines. Some of us would not
get the right things done with a Corvair.
A few days ago I saw Kevin Purtee's Corvair. It is a very nice installation.
With a standard 12-fin Corvair cooler, he has had no cooling problems. He nitrided
his crank, not after his own problems, but wisely responding to others'
reports. He told me that if he rebuilds or repairs, he likely will add the fifth
bearing. Kevin lives aviation in his "day job," and like the great pros,
he thinks and lives maintenance, safety and reliability. Unable to fly for a
few days from a wheel problem, he took the opportunity to look into the engine.
The engine is a beauty; its rocker arms gleam. No surprise, since it is Kevin's.
As I said, I can see the good points of both views. I have a dismantled Corvair
and a rebuilt (by Corky of this board) A-65. I am going with the A-65 for its
simplicity and dependability, and was very glad to get it.
Being a fat boy in a warm climate, though, I may need more hp or lift to get me,
a full tank, and a passenger into the air. If my beautiful spars were not already
at standard design length, I would add 4 ft overall to wingspan, more like
a Cub, to mile more lift and make the A-65 more effective in climb. However,
I am holding onto the Corvair as a fallback for the future. Having the benefit
of experience of many, if I use that engine, I will go with the fifth bearing.
It adds peace of mind.
Ryan is right about the operating range of the Corvair after conversion. The magic
is in the replacement cam, per WW. The cam greatly lowers the peak torque
and hp to 2800-3200 rpm, as I recall. Operating at 2500-2800 rpm is a walk
in the park for the modified engine. This rpm range is higher than an A-65 (2150
or so in cruise, 2300 rpm takeoff, as I recall). However it is very close
to the range of more modern Continental and Lycomings. This goes a long way
toward making it an aircraft engine.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com>
>Sent: Jun 25, 2010 8:43 AM
>To: "pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
>
>
>I agree with Jack, insofar as how his comments apply to auto engine conversions
in general. However, there are a couple of his points that I feel cannot be
fairly applied to the Corvair specifically. I'll address the WW based conversion,
as I think it's safe to say it is the most popular.
>
>Operation at or near full power continuously: the WW based Corvair conversion
produces full power (approx 100hp) at a far lower RPM than full power in the car.
Corvair engines in the auto role redline around 5,500. In the aircraft conversion
you are turning, in a Piet, low 3,000s at most at full throttle. The engine
is essentially being derated and not stressed to produce it's power like
some other auto conversions might be.
>
>Cost: I agree with Jack that you can overhaul an A-65 for just as much, or even
less than what a full boat Corvair overhaul is goon to cost you. However I feel
this a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, as you are talking a 65hp engine
versus a 100hp engine. A fairer comparison would be the cost of a proper
overhaul/conversion of a Corvair versus the cost of acquisition and a good overhaul
on an 0-200. In that case the Corvair is a less expensive alternative.
>
>The nice thing about a Piet is that it certainly does not need 100hp to fly. If
you did not need or want 100hp for your Piet, then you can go with an A-65 and
have a solid, reliable aircraft engine for what (I feel) a very well built
Corvair would cost. If you need/want that 100hp, then the Corvair is a viable
alternative to the expense of an O-200.
>
>My two cents. :)
>
>Ryan
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Jun 25, 2010, at 8:10 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:
>
>>
>> J_dunavin,
>>
>> (BTW, do you have a name?),
>>
>> I'm not a fan of the corvair conversions, as others on this list know. The
>> design requirements of an automobile engine are totally different from those
>> of an aircraft engine. Auto engines are simply not designed to operate at
>> or near full power for more than a few seconds at a time, where an airplane
>> engine must do so continuously, and reliably.
>>
>> So to use an auto engine conversion, it must offer advantages over available
>> aircraft engines. I have a 65 horsepower Continental aircraft engine in
>> mine and I made it essentially a brand new engine for a total cost of $7500.
>> With all the mods that must be made to a Corvair to make it somewhat
>> reliable, I doubt you can do it for much less than $7500.
>>
>> You can buy a running, serviceable (even though close to overhaul)
>> Continental for $3500 and get several years of flying behind it before
>> needing to overhaul it.
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Well I don't know what I might find-but what I have is a new set of 5" aircraft
wheels with Grove disc brakes on my Pietenpol project. and new 5:00 X 5" aero
trainer tires.and with my very poor and rough runway I would sure like to trade
them for some 6" wheels with maybe drum brakes or such that should not be so
strong.my plane will be light and I don't want to flip it on it's nose by getting
heavy footed or dropping a tire into a low spot.so if you know anyone that
has a set of 6" wheels that have bearings that will fit what looks like 1 1/4"
axles on Piper cub gear I'd like to talk trade. also the plane has an EIS
unit in the panel and I have no real desire to look at that thing in a Piet-n
well a GN-1 version. so it is sure trading material too.thanks for any help or
advice. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302477#302477
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Hello Dan,
I am new to this site but have been flying my piet on the west coast for 38 years.
i have also got wire wheels and no brakes. I understand what you are saying
about slowing and stopping the plane from moving. I have found that if I
run the tires to where the look almost half flat that it creates enough rolling
resistance that I can roll out and stop on a hard surface in about 700'. The
plane won't creep at the hold short line at idle either. I hope this may help
you some.
Regards,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Broadhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302482#302482
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1253078173jzpqtlv_580.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me by
my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad and
I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the best bang
for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea becasue:
A) it is in the plans,
B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has three
of them )
C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for longer
X country flights.
I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
What is your budget, just out of curiosity?
Ryan
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:12 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me
> by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
> Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad
> and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the
> best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea
> becasue:
> A) it is in the plans,
> B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has
> three of them )
> C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
> D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for
> longer X country flights.
>
> I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
Time to ask if you have read Tony B s firewall forward?
He talks of such things especially about getting a solid ac engine for near the
cost of a conversion. Actually I located a good lycoming 0235 core and when
I am done will have maybe 8K in it and a completely rebuilt engine designed to
run at full rpm for extended periods.
The next to nothing Corvairs sound attractive but after the time and 8500 bucks
you still have a car engine in your piet.
I figure I am building an airplane, why not use an airplane engine?
John
------Original Message------
From: j_dunavin
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Sent: Jun 25, 2010 2:12 PM
I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me by
my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad and
I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the best bang
for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea becasue:
A) it is in the plans,
B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has three
of them )
C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for longer
X country flights.
I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Perry Rhoads" <prhoads61(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
My home airport is 690' elevation. Last week I took a retired airline pilot
for a ride when the DA was 2700'. I weigh 230 and he weighs 210, we had 8
gallons 100LL on board. Continental A-65 proved plenty capable. We took off
using only a few hundred feet of the 3900 asphalt and landed on the 1800'
grass using half of it. N12939 weighs 664 empty.
Unless you're flying high and hot, get the A-65.
Perry Rhoads
N12939
----- Original Message -----
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
>
> I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls
> me by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
> Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my
> dad and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want
> the best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good
> idea becasue:
> A) it is in the plans,
> B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has
> three of them )
> C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
> D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or
> for longer X country flights.
>
> I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean average build
cost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for $6,000. We have time, and we
can scrounge. I can also come up with a lot of hardware, ect. as I am an A&P
and we have lots of goodies at the shop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302491#302491
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
I have also not read Tony B's firewall forward.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302492#302492
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
blah, blah, blah.....
>
>I figure I am building an airplane, why not use an airplane engine?
>
Good point John! That's why I'm using the ORIGINAL Pietenpol engine (Model A of
course!) in mine!!
:-)
>John
>------Original Message------
>From: j_dunavin
>Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
>To: Pietenpol builders Board
>ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
>Sent: Jun 25, 2010 2:12 PM
>
>
>I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me by
my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
>Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad and
I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the best
bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea becasue:
>A) it is in the plans,
>B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has three
of them )
>C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
>D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for longer
X country flights.
>
>I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
>
>
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
I figured I needed more than 65 HP flying from 7000ft airports so the choice
was a O-200 or Corvair. The O-200 would have been around $10,000 (maybe less
if I got lucky on a used engine in the back of a hanger that didn't need
total rebuild) and the Corvair cost me $6000 however adding a 5th bearing
will add another $1200 (still may add that). One other plus for the Corvair
is the rebuild cost (assuming you own it long enough to do one), can replace
all 6 cylinders/forged pistons/rings/bearings/rods for around $600.
However the extra money spent on the O-200 could probably be recovered
whenever you sell. Any aircraft with an aircraft engine has got to be far
easier to sell than with an auto engine.
rick
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:12 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me
> by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
> Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad
> and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the
> best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea
> becasue:
> A) it is in the plans,
> B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has
> three of them )
> C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
> D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for
> longer X country flights.
>
> I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
$8000 for an average sounds a bit low, unless you live at an aircraft
junkyard will lots of usable stuff laying around. I have spent about $6000
airframe and $6000 Corvair engine (although the Model A engine I understand
can be built for a far amount less).
rick
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:37 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean average
> build cost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for $6,000. We have
> time, and we can scrounge. I can also come up with a lot of hardware, ect.
> as I am an A&P and we have lots of goodies at the shop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302491#302491
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
. Hi Dan,
Keep up with your testing the way you are comfortable with,
What is the Ford turning at fast taxi speeds ?
What water pump are you using and at what pulley ratios.
My Funk pump requires a good overhaul so I installed a T pump with a 2.5 driven
and a 3" driver. Today with 80 ambient she went to 195. I think a speed-up is
advisable.
What are other Ford side mounted pumps turning ?
Pieti Lowell
!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302502#302502
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
$6000 on the airframe alone?? That must include instruments?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302504#302504
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
J,
Wanna shave $1,000 more off of that $8K? Use Poplar instead of Spruce.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:38 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean average
build cost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for $6,000. We have
time, and we can scrounge. I can also come up with a lot of hardware, ect.
as I am an A&P and we have lots of goodies at the shop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302491#302491
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
...and for those who may doubt it, Scott demonstrated some of the aerobatic
abilities of a Piet at the recent West Coast Piet Gathering.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 9:18 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX929DH progress report
Hello Dan,
I am new to this site but have been flying my piet on the west coast for 38
years. i have also got wire wheels and no brakes. I understand what you
are saying about slowing and stopping the plane from moving. I have found
that if I run the tires to where the look almost half flat that it creates
enough rolling resistance that I can roll out and stop on a hard surface in
about 700'. The plane won't creep at the hold short line at idle either. I
hope this may help you some.
Regards,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Broadhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302482#302482
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1253078173jzpqtlv_580.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Dan Yocum wrote on your Wall... |
Hi all, Today is friday and I just got back to my hangar with my engine after spending
a couple of days with William Wynne. The right cylinder head had to be
reworked and new pistons installed. Also the distributor had to be reworked.
I also have to re doo the baffeling. The engine ran great on the test stand.
William is great to work with and has an answer for any question. I hope I can
get 20 more hours flown off so I can get it to Brodhead. If not ,then I will
be up there in my Cessna 140.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Facebook <fbmessage+za6oo949(at)facebookmail.com>
Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 1:46:03 PM
Subject: Dan Yocum wrote on your Wall...
Dan posted something on your Wall and wrote:
"How are your Corvair issues coming? Will we see you and your new bird at Brodhead
in 4 weeks?"
Reply to this email to comment on this post.
To see your Wall or to write on Dan's Wall, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/n/?profile.php&id=1230512212&v=wall&story_fbid=1316932323301&mid=28d9709G49582054G116b125G1&bcode=MrKdO&n_m=airlion%40bellsouth.net
Thanks,
The Facebook Team
___
Find people from your BellSouth address book on Facebook! Go to:
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This message was intended for airlion(at)bellsouth.net. If you do not wish to receive
this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below
to unsubscribe.
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Facebook, Inc. P.O. Box 10005, Palo Alto, CA 94303
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Someone with more knowledge of the Corvair please correct me if im wrong but I
recall reading that the Corvair engine was designed originally for a helicopter
under a tender process. When the company that requested it turned it down they
decided to recoup their design costs and build a car for it.
I believe there are enough of them flying to be able to put the aero versus auto
conversion issue to bed.
Scotty
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302508#302508
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
What maneuvers did he do?
This brings up a question I've always had: Has anyone done a real g
stress analysis on the Piet? One-piece and three-piece wing? Short
and long fuselage? With and without wing strut intercostals? Etc. I
know that the Flying and Glider Manual article states that an
engineer said that the Piet was plenty strong, but plenty strong for
what?
>
>...and for those who may doubt it, Scott demonstrated some of the aerobatic
>abilities of a Piet at the recent West Coast Piet Gathering.
>
>Gary Boothe
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Dan Yocum wrote on your Wall... |
Gardiner,
Good job! We need to fly together some time,
Jeff
>
>Hi all, Today is friday and I just got back to my hangar with my
>engine after spending a couple of days with William Wynne. The right
>cylinder head had to be reworked and new pistons installed. Also the
>distributor had to be reworked. I also have to re doo the baffeling.
>The engine ran great on the test stand. William is great to work
>with and has an answer for any question. I hope I can get 20 more
>hours flown off so I can get it to Brodhead. If not ,then I will be
>up there in my Cessna 140.
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | 2 Piet fuselages available |
Spread the word.- The EAA Chapter 64 splinter group, "Scrounge Dawg Aviat
ion", is building a Pietenpol and we need to raise some money. We have 2 ne
arly completed Fuselage's for sale. Pictures attached. Price: $500 each obo
.
One is short or original at 163.5 inches firewall to tail post and normal w
idth. It is 12" from firewall to first bulkhead and includes rudder pedals
mounted and many metal fittings including cabane mount points and landing g
ear mounts. Just by eyeballing, it looks like its built close to plans. App
ears to have been built with epoxy throughout. Check photos-1 thru 12
The other is long at 173.5 inches from tail post to firewall and 15" from f
irewall to first bulkhead.This one has Model A motor mounts installed.- I
t appears to have been built with epoxy throughout and construction methods
deviate somewhat from plans. Longerons are two .5" x 1" and sandwiched wit
h plywood between.- It does appear to be very sturdy and is somewhat heav
y. Written on front of firewall is 111 lbs.- Check photos-13 thru 18.
Any questions can be directed to me off site - jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com
If you can't see photos, I'll be glad to send them to you via email. Help u
s finish our club Piet and get 2 more started.
The Scrounge Dawg Aviation Piet is on gear, wings and tail feathers complet
e. We need to build one more strut and a couple cabanes. Next step is assem
bly and engine mounting so we can check fitment and CG.
Flyin low and slow.
Jeff Wilson
NX899WT
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <jimboyer(at)hughes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
Hi Jeff,
Scott did two slow rolls one right after the other. Looked really good doing them.
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol on wheels
Tail surfaces done
Wing ribs done
Corvair engine
On Jun 25, 2010, Jeff Boatright wrote:
What maneuvers did he do?
This brings up a question I've always had: Has anyone done a real g
stress analysis on the Piet? One-piece and three-piece wing? Short
and long fuselage? With and without wing strut intercostals? Etc. I
know that the Flying and Glider Manual article states that an
engineer said that the Piet was plenty strong, but plenty strong for
what?
>
>...and for those who may doubt it, Scott demonstrated some of the aerobatic
>abilities of a Piet at the recent West Coast Piet Gathering.
>
>Gary Boothe
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
The piet should easily do spins, hamerheads (if you have a corvair, or pt-6), and
ground loops with no problem, but I ain't try'n none of them on purpose.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
My Pietenpol cost me $15,000 to build, of which $7500 was in zero-timing the
Continental A65 (new cylinders and pistons, new camshaft, new mags,
overhauled crankcase and crankshaft). All aircraft grade materials. It
took me 8 years to build and I like to tell people I spent the same amount
in that 8 years as a 2-pack a day smoker would have spent on cigarettes.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
$8000 for an average sounds a bit low, unless you live at an aircraft
junkyard will lots of usable stuff laying around. I have spent about $6000
airframe and $6000 Corvair engine (although the Model A engine I understand
can be built for a far amount less).
rick
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:37 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean average
build cost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for $6,000. We have
time, and we can scrounge. I can also come up with a lot of hardware, ect.
as I am an A&P and we have lots of goodies at the shop.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302491#302491
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
Tail slides, outside loops, snap rolls...you know, kid's stuff.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics
What maneuvers did he do?
This brings up a question I've always had: Has anyone done a real g
stress analysis on the Piet? One-piece and three-piece wing? Short
and long fuselage? With and without wing strut intercostals? Etc. I
know that the Flying and Glider Manual article states that an
engineer said that the Piet was plenty strong, but plenty strong for
what?
>
>...and for those who may doubt it, Scott demonstrated some of the aerobatic
>abilities of a Piet at the recent West Coast Piet Gathering.
>
>Gary Boothe
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan Yocum wrote on your Wall... |
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I must have missed it-but sounds like you got the head hot? was there a bottom
cylinder baffle that came loose or something? I am kind surprised at how little
holds them in place.I made the left side scoop long to include the oil cooler
mounted right behind the head on mine.I sure hope simple scoops and bottom baffles
are enough to cool it.can you tell a little more about what you think caused
the initial problem? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302524#302524
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
Joe,
I did my C-85 overhaul for $4500...
Jack
DSM
www.textors.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me
by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad
and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the
best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea
becasue:
A) it is in the plans,
B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has
three of them )
C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for
longer X country flights.
I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Hi Pieti,
Tomorrow is the day. I have my alarm set for 4 am. for a 6 am start-up. Co
mpletely disassembled the Model B carb today and soaked it in Gunk carb cl
eaner for an hour. Reassembled, and she is running beautifully. Taxied ove
r to the FBO pumps and filled tank with no-alcohol auto fuel. Double check
ed all safety wire, nuts etc. I have my contingent of safety crew assemble
d and at the ready, and they will be present in the morning.
I am using a Ken Perkins water pump. I am not sure of the pulley ratio. I
used what Ken provided. My temps were about 170 during taxi today.
Wish me luck, and if you are inclined, a prayer would be in order, and app
reciated.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 25, 2010 3:30 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX929DH progress report
om>
. Hi Dan,
eep up with your testing the way you are comfortable with,
hat is the Ford turning at fast taxi speeds ?
hat water pump are you using and at what pulley ratios.
y Funk pump requires a good overhaul so I installed a T pump with a 2.5 dr
iven
nd a 3" driver. Today with 80 ambient she went to 195. I think a speed-up
is
dvisable.
hat are other Ford side mounted pumps turning ?
ieti Lowell
!
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302502#302502
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dan Yocum wrote on your Wall... |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Here's all the info on the situation:
http://flycorvair.com/pietengineissue.html
Ryan
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:05 PM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com>
>
> I must have missed it-but sounds like you got the head hot? was there a
> bottom cylinder baffle that came loose or something? I am kind surprised at
> how little holds them in place.I made the left side scoop long to include
> the oil cooler mounted right behind the head on mine.I sure hope simple
> scoops and bottom baffles are enough to cool it.can you tell a little more
> about what you think caused the initial problem? Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302524#302524
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Todd Pryby" <tpryby(at)cox.net> |
Where can I order plans for the Pietenpol from?
Thank you,
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
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b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCENCi09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg
ICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRy
b25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09
PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Search the archives - Rob Bach described the aerobatics he's done in his blue Piet.
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jun 25, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
>
> What maneuvers did he do?
>
> This brings up a question I've always had: Has anyone done a real g stress analysis
on the Piet? One-piece and three-piece wing? Short and long fuselage? With
and without wing strut intercostals? Etc. I know that the Flying and Glider
Manual article states that an engineer said that the Piet was plenty strong,
but plenty strong for what?
>
>
>>
>> ...and for those who may doubt it, Scott demonstrated some of the aerobatic
>> abilities of a Piet at the recent West Coast Piet Gathering.
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>
> --
> ---
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
This kink will take you where you need to go:
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/Product.html
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302536#302536
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
Man, we could get an aero demonstration team together and take it on the
circuit. The Blue Piets? On the air show schedule at Oshkosh? The
possibilities are ... frightening.
Open invitation for Pieter's at Sonoma Skypark as well. Walt moved his
Model A over the Schellville but that's only two mile by car with a lot
of other neat airplanes to look at.
Darrel Jones
Pfeifer Sport N154JP
On 6/25/2010 3:54 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe"
>
> Tail slides, outside loops, snap rolls...you know, kid's stuff.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, CA
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> 19 ribs done
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Includes all instruments, cover, paint, engine mount.
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:49 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> $6000 on the airframe alone?? That must include instruments?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302504#302504
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Including the cost of the core?
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Jack wrote:
>
> Joe,
> I did my C-85 overhaul for $4500...
> Jack
> DSM
> www.textors.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:13 PM
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
>
>
> I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me
> by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
> Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad
> and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the
> best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea
> becasue:
> A) it is in the plans,
> B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has
> three of them )
> C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
> D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for
> longer X country flights.
>
> I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Well I'm going over to my Buddie's dad's farm tomorrow and ask about the motor.
Maybe if I get him all jazzed up first about the piet, he'll be more willing to
sell me the core for cheap!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302553#302553
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Make sure you check the engine code to determine if it will be suitable for
aircraft use. Checking to see if it turns over is always a good idea too....
Ryan
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 1:09 AM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> Well I'm going over to my Buddie's dad's farm tomorrow and ask about the
> motor.
> Maybe if I get him all jazzed up first about the piet, he'll be more
> willing to sell me the core for cheap!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302553#302553
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
uh ho, which are good codes?
This one is apparently the 110HP version??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302555#302555
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: NX929DH progress report |
| From: | "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson(at)optusnet.com.au> |
Dan...im getting butterflies thinking of the excitement! Make sure those ground
crew have a camera in hand please!
Go for it! You can do it!
Scotty
Australia :D
--------
Scotty
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302557#302557
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
My figures came in about the same... and I used Douglas Fir and Latex paint!
Ben
On 6/25/2010 6:51 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
>
> My Pietenpol cost me $15,000 to build, of which $7500 was in
> zero-timing the Continental A65 (new cylinders and pistons, new
> camshaft, new mags, overhauled crankcase and crankshaft). All
> aircraft grade materials. It took me 8 years to build and I like to
> tell people I spent the same amount in that 8 years as a 2-pack a day
> smoker would have spent on cigarettes.
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
> Raleigh, NC
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Rick
> Holland
> *Sent:* Friday, June 25, 2010 3:15 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
>
> $8000 for an average sounds a bit low, unless you live at an aircraft
> junkyard will lots of usable stuff laying around. I have spent about
> $6000 airframe and $6000 Corvair engine (although the Model A engine I
> understand can be built for a far amount less).
>
> rick
>
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:37 PM, j_dunavin > wrote:
>
> >
>
> Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean
> average build cost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for
> $6,000. We have time, and we can scrounge. I can also come up with a
> lot of hardware, ect. as I am an A&P and we have lots of goodies at
> the shop.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302491#302491
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> --
> Rick Holland
> Castle Rock, Colorado
>
> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack" <jack(at)textors.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... |
Yes
Jack
DSM
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Including the cost of the core?
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Jack wrote:
Joe,
I did my C-85 overhaul for $4500...
Jack
DSM
www.textors.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 1:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me
by my full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. :o
Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad
and I up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the
best bang for the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea
becasue:
A) it is in the plans,
B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has
three of them )
C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?
D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for
longer X country flights.
I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302488#302488
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | airlion <airlion(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
I thought a pietenpol was all a bout low and slow. What is all this crap about
acrobatics? Gardiner
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, June 25, 2010 6:37:27 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics
The piet should easily do spins, hamerheads (if you have a corvair, or pt-6), and
ground loops with no problem, but I ain't try'n none of them on purpose.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fifi to fly again |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Not necessarily on-topic, but a neat aviation story either way:
If you live anywhere within day-trip distance of Midland, TX it would
behoove you to come down with the 24 hour flu on Tuesday, June 29 and call
in sick to work. The CAF has put Fifi, the world's only airworthy B-29, back
together and they are going to do the first flight in years next Tuesday at
8AM:
http://www.cafb29b24.org/
The biggest chore that was completed was the installation of four new
engines. To say it was costly and time consuming would an understatement.
Here's a pretty darn cool video of the first time they ran all four engines
at the same time, I believe on Memorial Day. Make sure your speakers are on,
set HD to on and watch it full screen!
http://vimeo.com/12407230
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | "Billy McCaskill" <billmz(at)cox.net> |
Joe,
If you intend to use a Corvair engine for a Piet or any other aircraft, you REALLY need to order the Corvair Conversion Manual from William Wynne. go to www.flycorvair.com and buy the manual. It will tell you everthing you need to know about converting and using the Corvair for flight use. Even if you decide not to go the Corvair route, the manual is still money wisely spent. I bought my manual last year while at Brodhead, and don't regret spending the money on it. Having read it numerous times, I still think that the Corvair is the route that I will take, building it using William Wynne's standards and following them to the letter. Although I have not done so yet, I need to order the Bingelis book set and it sounds like you should too...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tailfeathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302590#302590
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Groah <dskogrover(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Here are the head and case numbers for the corvair. See word doc attached.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
________________________________
From: Billy McCaskill <billmz(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 8:11:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines
Joe,
If you intend to use a Corvair engine for a Piet or any other aircraft, you REALLY need to order the Corvair Conversion Manual from William Wynne. go to www.flycorvair.com and buy the manual. It will tell you everthing you need to know about converting and using the Corvair for flight use. Even if you decide not to go the Corvair route, the manual is still money wisely spent. I bought my manual last year while at Brodhead, and don't regret spending the money on it. Having read it numerous times, I still think that the Corvair is the route that I will take, building it using William Wynne's standards and following them to the letter. Although I have not done so yet, I need to order the Bingelis book set and it sounds like you should too...
--------
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
tailfeathers almost done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302590#302590
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
I second Billy's recommendation in his email in another thread this
morning....go to http://www.flycorvair.com and order a copy of William's
conversion manual. If you are going to use the Corvair it is a must have,
and it will have all the information on which block codes are acceptable,
tips on how to get started (finding a good core, etc), disassembly, and all
the best practices and methods for an aircraft conversion overhaul. It is
probably even more imperative that you get a copy, since you are going to be
doing it "on the cheap", so to speak. If you don't know what you are doing,
or having done, you can sacrifice plenty of reliability in your effort to
save a relatively insignificant amount of money; relative to the value of
the airplane, your life, and your passenger's, that is.
Just because the engine is a 110 does not mean it is acceptable. With some
codes you can use the bottom end, but the heads are no good. On others you
must pull the top cover to verify the number cast into the crank to
determine whether it is suitable for aircraft use. Get the manual....and
then RTFM. :)
Ryan
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 1:48 AM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> uh ho, which are good codes?
> This one is apparently the 110HP version??
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302555#302555
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fifi to fly again |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Incredible putting 4 3350 radials together (72 cylinders, 144 spark plugs!)
and getting them running. I will never complain about having to rebuilt my
measly 6 cylinder Corvair.
rick
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Not necessarily on-topic, but a neat aviation story either way:
>
> If you live anywhere within day-trip distance of Midland, TX it would
> behoove you to come down with the 24 hour flu on Tuesday, June 29 and call
> in sick to work. The CAF has put Fifi, the world's only airworthy B-29, back
> together and they are going to do the first flight in years next Tuesday at
> 8AM:
>
> http://www.cafb29b24.org/
>
> The biggest chore that was completed was the installation of four new
> engines. To say it was costly and time consuming would an understatement.
> Here's a pretty darn cool video of the first time they ran all four engines
> at the same time, I believe on Memorial Day. Make sure your speakers are on,
> set HD to on and watch it full screen!
>
> http://vimeo.com/12407230
>
> Ryan
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
Although some people have successfully rebuilt seized and rusted tight
Corvairs, I would avoid it if possible.
rick
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Make sure you check the engine code to determine if it will be suitable for
> aircraft use. Checking to see if it turns over is always a good idea too....
>
> Ryan
>
> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 1:09 AM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
>>
>> Well I'm going over to my Buddie's dad's farm tomorrow and ask about the
>> motor.
>> Maybe if I get him all jazzed up first about the piet, he'll be more
>> willing to sell me the core for cheap!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302553#302553
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
You are looking for a post 1965 110 hp no smog engine..
Correct crank number is 8409 ( long throw crank)
Corvair engine codes:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/VinSuffix.html
Corvair head numbers: (desirebale ones higlighted in blue)
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/HeadNumbers.html
older cases with the short throw crank can be clearanced to fit longer throw
crank as shown here
http://www.experimental-aviation.com/Corvair/CaseClearance.html
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com>
>
> uh ho, which are good codes?
> This one is apparently the 110HP version??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Pietenpol in DFW area |
| From: | "jpkarrera" <jpkarrera(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello all,
I'm very interested in building this airplane. I'm from Argentina, and I'll be
in DFW area for two months due a training.
I contacted Tim, a good member of this forum, and he told me many things about
this plane and also he answered me many questions.
I would like to know if somebody has a Pietenpol in DFW area, just to see one of
these airplanes and learn more about it.
Thanks in advance,
Juan Carrera.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302611#302611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
I couldn't take it any more, and wanted to make sure everything went well so I
called the FBO at Poplar Grove. Sounds like Dan had a great day and flew *a lot*!!!
Dan, after your victory celebration, fill us poor folks in!!!
Dan (one of the other ones)
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <bannerbill(at)att.net> |
Seeking recommendations for spark plug type to use with Vertex drop in magneto
on Model-A Piet.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302624#302624
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
I have similar inserts, and use a long reach, non resister. hot with a gap of .018"
no more with a mag. I have tried Champs, AC, BOTH WORK WITH A platinum ELECTRODE.
I ran these for four years with no problem.
Tried short reach plugs and got a miss at 2200.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302625#302625
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | FW: Bet you never saw one of these? |
For awhile there, I thought maybe Dan had built one of these!
Dan - I can only imagine.very happy for you!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
From: Randy Farmer [mailto:r.l.farmer(at)comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:49 PM
Subject: Bet you never saw one of these?
1932 Helicron
Betcha never saw one of these!
In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was placed in a barn and
forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was
rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Although the
manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was built in France
1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon for recently
displaced airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for
employment.
As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller-powered cars
with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of moving a
vehicle. On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full speed
and efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway
speeds exceeding 75 mph. This is the one and only Helicron in existence,
owned by Lane Motor Museum in Nashville, TN.
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
[]
_____
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
13:01:00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com> |
Dan give me a call to work on the Ford, What Prop, Who made it Dia and pitch, Douwe's
prop was supposed to be a 76 X 42, since it would not turn up over 1800
it caused a few problems as most know. My Ford turns 2200 with a 76 X 47 Sensenich,
but with a few more horses, Taken from a Lambert 90 HP.
Pieti Lowell
PS: Plug type ? Carb ID ? Timing ? Cam location ? Fresh Fuel ? Hours run ? Bearing
type ?And more,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302628#302628
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Sounds like Dan didn't need any "learned" help.....congratulations Dan!!!
Ryan
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:
> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Dan give me a call to work on the Ford, What Prop, Who made it Dia and
> pitch, Douwe's prop was supposed to be a 76 X 42, since it would not turn up
> over 1800 it caused a few problems as most know. My Ford turns 2200 with a
> 76 X 47 Sensenich, but with a few more horses, Taken from a Lambert 90 HP.
> Pieti Lowell
> PS: Plug type ? Carb ID ? Timing ? Cam location ? Fresh Fuel ? Hours run ?
> Bearing type ?And more,
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302628#302628
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | making progress! |
| From: | Matthew VanDervort <matthew.vandervort(at)gmail.com> |
Just a little proof that I have actually made a little bit of progress,
hopefully in the next week I will have all of the fabric off, and inventory
of the parts im going to need from aircraft spruce and specialty. mainly
just hardware. Also had a nice visit from Kringles this evening, really
nice talking airplanes and hanging out with him and everyone!
pic is courtesy of the girlfriend
www.vansaviation.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30
am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines
had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving
our way from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-p
ockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave
her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to
the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Clim
b-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came
back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't har
dly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over the airpor
t just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure she cou
ld do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I was
holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the horizo
n. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly enough
. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I calcu
lated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit. At
any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to
attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my
airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on
my approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts, expe
rience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in purposeful
ly high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to do its
draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle. Procee
ded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped powe
r to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick ever
. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted over
toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One of
the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit close
r?".... There is always one.
So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around.
A major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted
the idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solut
ion. The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not
in flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with
plenty of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out
of the overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided.
Water temps were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subs
equent flight. I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each
climbout. So there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right th
rown in, but always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in
all, and flight time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back
to base and discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives
behind. He was puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level
flight everything was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idl
e stop, she begins to sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't
goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about
same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if
I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as
she ran perfect in every way.
Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough
that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attemp
ted fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try
to isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray
some foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls
for a few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what
I am up against on that front.
Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th
is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on
the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation
on the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my
windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual
carb heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter spri
ngs wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it
to the intake air. Any Ideas?
So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou
ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the
big thing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Congratulations Dan!!!!!
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 8:17 PM, wrote:
> So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30
> am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines
> had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our
> way from the northwest. It was just me and machine,
> pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick
> prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at
> 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we
> were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my
> senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on.
> Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over
> the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure
> she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I
> was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the
> horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly
> enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I
> calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit.
> At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to
> attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my
> airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my
> approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts,
> experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in
> purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to
> do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle.
> Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped
> power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick
> ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted
> over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One
> of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
> closer?".... There is always one.
>
> So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
> major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the
> idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution.
> The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in
> flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty
> of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the
> overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps
> were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight.
> I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So
> there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but
> always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight
> time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and
> discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was
> puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything
> was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to
> sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the
> ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise
> the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the
> problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every
> way.
>
> Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough
> that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted
> fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to
> isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some
> foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a
> few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up
> against on that front.
>
> Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice.
> This makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on
> the ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on
> the intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my
> windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb
> heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs
> wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to
> the intake air. Any Ideas?
>
> So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I
> could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the
> big thing.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | "John Recine" <amsafetyc(at)aol.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | A folding wing Piet? |
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Piet_update.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Whoo hoo!
Congrats Dan!!
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 a
m, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had
passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our wa
y from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-po
ckita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun.
She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the
crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk a
nd I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on wha
t I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was ha
ppening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and
round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good,
she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pre
ssure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and
it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figu
re out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" i
n front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing c
ircles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it
became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45
MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could o
nly go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reas
on I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good
'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the
throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field
I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first de
ad-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Co
asted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse
. One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
closer?".... There is always one.
>
> So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the i
dle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The
A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight.
So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of powe
r and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow du
ring climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about
185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised
that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went,
mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly o
ver the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about tw
o hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem w
ith the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thin
g. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I thr
ottled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely q
uit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and
had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as
in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it i
n any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way.
>
> Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough t
hat I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted f
ix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to iso
late this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot p
owder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minu
tes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against o
n that front.
>
> Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th
is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on t
he ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on t
he intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windsc
reen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat c
ans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound arou
nd the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake a
ir. Any Ideas?
>
> So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou
ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big
thing.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BYD" <bannerbill(at)att.net> |
Thanks. I noticed that the adapters would need a long reach design - when it's
convenient, could you supply a Champ number that you use? Thanks again.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302642#302642
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know:
Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine?
My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial number.
But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this
particular engine not work?
Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused
real hard.
Thanks for all the info guys!
Joe
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
If he is going to give you the core, then go ahead and take it. There are enough
usable parts otherwise, I'm sure it won't be a complete waste. If nothing else
it's some good practice at tearing down a core.
You must have an engine with a forged crankshaft, and there are some engines that
will have usable bottom ends but unusable heads. This is not some punitive
measure meant to cost you more money....they are either suitable or they are not.
If you were going to acquire and overhaul an A-65, you would need to buy a manual
to ensure you are following the best methods and practices. In my opinion if
you are going to overhaul a Corvair for aircraft use then you need to buy William
Wynne's manual, as it provides the info you need to turn your core into
a reliable aircraft engine.
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:39 AM, "j_dunavin" wrote:
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head serial
number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would this
particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get abused
real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Way to go, Dan! As soon as you get those auto-engine conversion problems
fixed you'll be fine. Looking forward to sheeing you and your new plane at
Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 9:18 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever
So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30
am, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines
had passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our
way from the northwest. It was just me and machine,
pockita-pockita-pockita-pockita....... lowered my head and said a quick
prayer, then gave her the gun. She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at
200 ft.,.. got to the top of the crest and a little back pressure, and we
were flying. Climb-out was brisk and I was at 600 ft. before I came to my
senses and came back to focus on what I was supposed to be concentrating on.
Couldn't hardly believe what was happening myself. Tried to stay right over
the airport just in case. Round and round and round....left turns I was sure
she could do. The machine is good, she flies fine like an airplane should. I
was holding considerable back pressure just to keep her level with the
horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and it helped a little, but not nearly
enough. My mind was racing... can't figure out why I am nose heavy, when I
calculated that the CG would be only 2" in front of the most aft CG limit.
At any rate, I finally got tired of doing circles and gathered my courage to
attempt the first landing. By that time it became very apparent that my
airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45 MPH in level flight. So on my
approach I could not depend on it and could only go by instincts,
experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reason I came in
purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good 'ol Piet to
do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the throttle.
Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field I chopped
power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first dead-stick
ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Coasted
over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse. One
of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
closer?".... There is always one.
So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the
idle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution.
The A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in
flight. So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty
of power and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the
overflow during climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps
were about 185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight.
I surmised that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So
there I went, mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but
always directly over the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight
time was about two hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and
discussed engine problem with the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was
puzzled by the whole thing. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything
was normal, but when I throttled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to
sputter and would surely quit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the
ground, I called Douwe and had a discussion about same. He told me to raise
the tail on the ground (as in flight) to see if I could duplicate the
problem. Could not duplicate it in any fashion, as she ran perfect in every
way.
Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough
that I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted
fix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to
isolate this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some
foot powder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a
few minutes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up
against on that front.
Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. This
makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on the
ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on the
intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my
windscreen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb
heat cans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs
wound around the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to
the intake air. Any Ideas?
So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I could
fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big
thing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: making progress! |
| From: | "Kringle" <Mrkringles(at)msn.com> |
Matthew,
Thanks for sharing your project with us. I'm looking forward to watching your progress
and seeing this historic ship flying again.
John
--------
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302665#302665
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | "GliderMike" <glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com> |
Congratulations Dan on the flight. Glad everything worked out. It really gets
quiet when the fire goes out doesn't it? Good luck with the minor problems.
I personally think the oil leaks are always the toughest thing to fix.
--------
HOMEBUILDER
Will WORK for Spruce
Long flights, smooth air, and soft landings,
GliderMike, aka Mike Glasgow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302669#302669
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Dan,
It sounds like the air isn't getting hot enough (yes, I have firm grasp of t
he obvious!). Here's an easy thing to try - block off 1/2 your air inlet on t
he carb muff can. Duct tape should suffice. That'll allow the air that does g
et in to warm up better. What are the springs in the can constructed of? St
ainless doesn't conduct heat nearly as well as aluminum - make some aluminum
springs if you don't have them already.
Have fun, be safe,
Dan
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jun 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:
> So l lined up with the end of the grass runway 27 at Poplar Grove at 6:30 a
m, safety crew at the ready. Winds were dead calm after the squall lines had
passed about two hours before. A distinct line of "clear" was moving our wa
y from the northwest. It was just me and machine, pockita-pockita-pockita-po
ckita....... lowered my head and said a quick prayer, then gave her the gun.
She slowly accelerated, raised the tail at 200 ft.,.. got to the top of the
crest and a little back pressure, and we were flying. Climb-out was brisk a
nd I was at 600 ft. before I came to my senses and came back to focus on wha
t I was supposed to be concentrating on. Couldn't hardly believe what was ha
ppening myself. Tried to stay right over the airport just in case. Round and
round and round....left turns I was sure she could do. The machine is good,
she flies fine like an airplane should. I was holding considerable back pre
ssure just to keep her level with the horizon. Adjusted my elevator trim and
it helped a little, but not nearly enough. My mind was racing... can't figu
re out why I am nose heavy, when I calculated that the CG would be only 2" i
n front of the most aft CG limit. At any rate, I finally got tired of doing c
ircles and gathered my courage to attempt the first landing. By that time it
became very apparent that my airspeed indicator was reading way too low. 45
MPH in level flight. So on my approach I could not depend on it and could o
nly go by instincts, experience, and the singing of the wires. For this reas
on I came in purposefully high and fast, figuring I could depend on the good
'ol Piet to do its draggy thing to get me slow and down after I chopped the
throttle. Proceeded in that vein and when I was sure I could make the field
I chopped power to idle....and she sputtered and went quiet!!!! My first de
ad-stick ever. Landed about 3 ft. AGL and dropped her in, but all was OK. Co
asted over toward the crowd and stopped short, the prop as still as a corpse
. One of the wise guys in the crew yells out "could you bring her over a bit
closer?".... There is always one.
>
> So I climbed out, and congratulations were given and accepted all around. A
major milestone indeed, but only the beginning of "Phase II". Adjusted the i
dle speed up a little, but in my gut I knew that it wasn't the solution. The
A was running perfectly on the ground in all parameters, but not in flight.
So I taxied down again and took off, again successfully with plenty of powe
r and pull. Noticed that I was discharging some water out of the overflow du
ring climb-out and when I throttled back it subsided. Water temps were about
185 first flight, and a little higher in each subsequent flight. I surmised
that this was from me losing a little water each climbout. So there I went,
mostly left turns, with an occasional right thrown in, but always directly o
ver the field. Four t-offs and landings in all, and flight time was about tw
o hours in all, that outing. Went back to base and discussed engine problem w
ith the Model A car Guru that lives behind. He was puzzled by the whole thin
g. Symptoms were, when in level flight everything was normal, but when I thr
ottled back to almost the idle stop, she begins to sputter and would surely q
uit each time, if I didn't goose it a bit. On the ground, I called Douwe and
had a discussion about same. He told me to raise the tail on the ground (as
in flight) to see if I could duplicate the problem. Could not duplicate it i
n any fashion, as she ran perfect in every way.
>
> Noticed another problem, a pretty substantial oil leakage. It was enough t
hat I did not feel I could continue to fly it that way without an attempted f
ix. So at the present time, I have the prop and cowls removed, to try to iso
late this big leak. I will clean it all up sparkly, and the spray some foot p
owder all over the suspected areas. Will run it without cowls for a few minu
tes to detect leakage areas. At least then I will know what I am up against o
n that front.
>
> Then Douwe calls me back and tells me that he suspects it was carb ice. Th
is makes sense to me, because I never ran it at high RPMS for that long on t
he ground for any ice to form. I did for sure see a lot of condensation on t
he intake manifold in flight, enough so that it kept spraying onto my windsc
reen. Now what to try I don't know. I have one of those perpetual carb heat c
ans a-la Ken Perkins. Inside the can I have 1/2" diameter springs wound arou
nd the #1 exhaust stack, to pick-up the heat and transfer it to the intake a
ir. Any Ideas?
>
> So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I cou
ld fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are the big
thing.
>
> Dan Helsper
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
J,
To add to what Ryan said, Corvair racing guys are looking for the parts we
don't want. You should have no problem trading out, or selling the wrong
cranks and heads....worked great for me, at least.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
19 ribs done
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair
engines
If he is going to give you the core, then go ahead and take it. There are
enough usable parts otherwise, I'm sure it won't be a complete waste. If
nothing else it's some good practice at tearing down a core.
You must have an engine with a forged crankshaft, and there are some engines
that will have usable bottom ends but unusable heads. This is not some
punitive measure meant to cost you more money....they are either suitable or
they are not.
If you were going to acquire and overhaul an A-65, you would need to buy a
manual to ensure you are following the best methods and practices. In my
opinion if you are going to overhaul a Corvair for aircraft use then you
need to buy William Wynne's manual, as it provides the info you need to turn
your core into a reliable aircraft engine.
Ryan
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 27, 2010, at 12:39 AM, "j_dunavin" wrote:
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to
know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog
engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head
serial number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would
this particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get
abused real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Joe:
You do NEED the long crank and the right heads... no getting around
that...anything other than the right heads will not give you the rated power
and the 110 no smog heads as outlined in the previous links are the only
ones useable for the aircraft operating parameter as a direct drive. If I
recall correctly all others have a different combustion chamber profile,
provide different compression ratios and are much to prone to detonation or
preigniton that will kill the engine in seconds...and lead to a bad day....
First thing you need to do is buy the William Wynne manual...
http://www.flycorvair.com/manual.html
50$ well spent and it will help you define whether you are willing and able
to commit building the Corvair engine.
Read his site from end to end and you will pick up a lot...
Mark Langford's page is also worth reading from end to end
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/
If the engine is free take it home clean it off, and take it apart... its is
worth the experience just to learn how they go together.
make sure the head bolts do not spin in the case when you disassemble
it....or you will trash the case
If I am not wrong the Z code block is the one odd ball made pre and post
65... open the top cover and look for the #8409 stamped on the crank.
if it has the long crank #8409 you are in good shape as the case is then
useable as well provided there is no damage to either and they are
refurbishable...the heads NEED to be the right ones....
once you dissect the free engine and you determine what the useable parts
are, put the other bits up for sale on Ebay...
more on donor engines from Mark:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/donors.html
Clarks Corvair does take used parts in trade if they can refurbish them...so
all the bits have some value...
http://www.corvair.com
Michael
----- Original Message -----
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to
know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog
engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head
serial number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would
this particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get
abused real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Morlock" <l.morlock(at)att.net> |
Is anyone familiar with Cole Field in Oklahoma or have any contacts
nearby? It is a grass strip just a few miles southwest of Oklahoma City
and is visible on Google earth, but I have not been able to make contact
with anyone there.
The reason I ask is that I'm trying to trace the history of the
Pietenpol I am working on, which was purchased as a partially completed
project. The person I bought it from in 1993 said it originally came
from Cole Field.
I'm the guy in Southern Indiana that bought Douwe's Model A engine and
I'm currently in the midst of rib stitching on the re-covered wing.
Any leads would be appreciated.
Larry Morlock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Silvius" <silvius(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
Joe:
Just to confuse things a bit more here are some pictures of what the inside
of the heads look like. The 95 head "good" pix refers to an aceptable 95 hp
head that if recall I corectly was "modified" for use. You'll need to do
some digging on that one. Pictures are saved from William Wynne site.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | "dgaldrich" <dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com> |
Hi Joe
Should you need one, I've got two spare forged 8409 cranks ready to get machined
and nitrided. I got mine done at a place in Michigan for $325 and it is beautiful.
I also have a bunch of other stuff usable as core for Clark's, Contact
me off-line dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.com if you're interested.
Dave Aldrich
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302695#302695
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | "Don Emch" <EmchAir(at)aol.com> |
I read somewhere that the inlet area size of the carb heat shroud needs to be the
same as the outlet area size in order to get efficient carb "heat". Maybe
check that. I believe if you go fly, as soon as you land, you can check the carburetor
and actually see ice too, if you had it. Just a thought.
Good Luck! Sure is fun ain't it! I've flown into Poplar Grove a few times and
it sure is a beautiful place to be testing.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302702#302702
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
thanks for the help guys!
The plan is that my dad, my buddie's dad and i are going to push, pull, shove the
ol car into the barn and tear it all down. I'm way excited to tear into her
and see what's what. He also said that he has another motor we can look at as
well :)
Of course I am going to buy the manual as well.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302708#302708
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
| From: | "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld(at)lacity.org> |
Hello Everyone,
I am the Scott that Gary speaks of. I hope I haven't upset anyone by doing light
acro in my Piet. I will start by saying that my plane only resembles a Piet
from a short distance. My dad and I built it and made its first flight in 1972.
It is a steel tube fuse and tail feathers. The wings are cub and built
to the Reed Clipped wing plans with squared off tips. The wing is a proven aerobatic
design. A friend worked the numbers on my plane and determined that it
is stressed about the same as a Cub. With that said, I only do positive G maneuvers
and limit them to Stalls, slow rolls and split S's. I no longer do loops
since it takes alot of airspeed and fair initial G load at the pull up to
get it over the top. After all it does have wood spars that are from about 1946.
Back in the early 70's a friend of our's that only weighed about 130 lbs
did 10 consecutive loops and maintained altitude. Now for those who are still
reading I will say two more things. My Operating Limitations say it is certified
for aerobatics with one person. The second is that I have flown many other
Piets and GN1's and would not consider doing acro in them. I am not that good.
Piets, GN1's and everything in-between are great fun airplanes. About 1100
hours on the plane and enjoying every minute of it.
Happy Landings,
Scott
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Broadhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302712#302712
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com> |
Congratulations Dan.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302717#302717
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gluing the fuselage |
| From: | "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com> |
I built the left side with all the small gussets, then built the right side and
installed the side while in the jig. Then you can clean the table and put the
two sides together. I have the fuse together and I'm installing the seats,
all with one side of the big ply off. I can't imagine trying to get numbers and
make the seat stuff fit if both sides were on. Also, it's easy to clamp the
side on while flat on table.
I have lots of those large black paper clips and they're awesome for putting on
those little 1/4 by 1/8 fillers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302718#302718
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gluing the fuselage |
| From: | "schuerrman" <sdschuerr(at)live.com> |
Also, the rear member has to be cut if you put one in each side. I'd put both
sides together without the 1" piece, cut the longerons with the necessary miter
and put the rear piece in when putting the two sides together.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302719#302719
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bet you never saw one of these? |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
HA can you imagine if you would hit a dear with that?! [Shocked]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302726#302726
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson(at)erec.net> |
First of all CONGRATULATIONS BIG GUY... YOU THE MAN. I am sure it was a great feeling
to fly it after have spent those endless hours building it.
Dan you can buy a thermocouple for a digital Volt-Ohm meter and fasten/clamp it
to the carb where you want to know the temp and see if you have adequate carb
heat. I had a Stinson 108 that I changed the OEM filter out to a PMA type unit(I
forget the brand). It went from an airplane to an ice machine. I had to run
carb heat at cruise some days. Needless to say I went back to the OEM type and
problem went away! Some simple things can cause a serious problem. The heat
muffs I have seen on A engines look really small.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs and tailfeathers done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302729#302729
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | homemade pitot tube? |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use???
Has anyone else made their own?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff wilson <jlwilsonnn(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
Carb ice is certainly plausible, I've had 2 different A's quit for what I think
was carb ice, once taxiing out, and once on final approach just as you described.
The one I fly in PA sometimes makes enough water on the intake manifold
in flight that drops hit you in the face occasionally, but it's never quit, although
it did run rough on one take-off that I aborted, and an hour later ran
fine, so may have also been carb ice.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302735#302735
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Documentary you might like |
| From: | "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27(at)earthlink.net> |
No Piets, but if you like old airplanes, I saw the premiere of this yesterday and
two thumbs up
http://www.breakingthroughtheclouds.com/noframes.asp?f=DVDs_Schedule.html
It's also on facebook
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302736#302736
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum137(at)gmail.com> |
Check out what Mike Cut did in the picture section of westcoastpiet.com.
ACS makes a pitot/static combo for $20 or so.
Dan
--
yocum(at)gmail.com
On Jun 27, 2010, at 4:40 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use???
> Has anyone else made their own?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Dan Helspers Milestone |
Congratulations on your first flight! I can only imagine how good it must feel.
A couple of hours ago Bill Knight stopped by Porter Co. in his great looking red
Waco. If you recall, Bill now owns Bernard's last original. He also has a Ford
powered Piet with a number of hours on it. Once I realized he had a Ford powered
Piet I mentioned your first flight and deadstick landing. He said he was
aware you were getting close, but didn't know about your first flight.
His take on the Ford quitting on final was it was due to the Babbits being tight
on new Ford engines when the engine gets hot. He says that even now with his,
if he lets the RPM's drop it may quit on final. At Brodhead he said he used
to check the field before landing to see who was around. He new the chances were
the Ford would quit on final and he would have to either let it cool down before
restart or find someone to help him push it back to the hanger. He really
felt sure it was not a carb ice problem.
When he left Porter Co. he was going to stop at Poplar Grove so I don't know if
he had a chance to hook up with you.
Regards,
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | homemade pitot tube? |
I made my pitot/static tube out of 1/4" 3003 aluminum tubing. I welded the
end of the static tube shut and then driled 4 # 60 holes around the tube
for static ports. Works very well.
Here is a picture taken inflight showing Mike Cuy's Pietenpol, but also
showing my pitot/static tubes:
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of j_dunavin
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 5:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: homemade pitot tube?
anything is possible, but what dimensions would i use???
Has anyone else made their own?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302733#302733
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: couple of new guy questions... Corvair engines |
| From: | Rick Holland <at7000ft(at)gmail.com> |
"Correct" Corvair cores are not that hard to find. Get the WW manual and a
65+ core or you will be sorry (unless you are a masochist) .
rick
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 11:39 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
>
> Not to beat this to death, or over question this, I honestly just want to
> know:
> Do i HAVE to have the long throw crank, and a post 65 110hp no smog engine?
> My buddy's dad said i could have a Z block with a not "desirable" head
> serial number.
> But if I did a head job, and a proper intake exhaust, ign, ect. Why would
> this particular engine not work?
>
> Again he is going to give it to me! And I doubt that our piet would get
> abused real hard.
> Thanks for all the info guys!
> Joe
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302650#302650
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
I hope someone out there is familiar with Cleveland wheels. I have been trying
to locate some 6" to replace the 5:00 X 5's I have on my project. they are new
Grove wheels with Grove disc brakes.-I advertised on barnstormer and got a response
from a guy in Alberta Canada that has a nice condition set of Cleveland
40-86a magnesium wheels with discs he would like to trade me for the Groves.
and they fit the 1 1/4" axles I have but no brakes for them.and truthfully I have
no idea if they are even a dimension that would fit my Cub gear.I did find
another guy that has a set of Cub 4" wheels but I don't think he has brakes and
if I could get the big 4" tires they run about 300$ a piece without tubes.I
am wondering if Piper may have stayed with the same axle dimensions as they went
to the Shortwings.maybe if I could find a set from a Tri-pacer or such they
might work. anyway-any advice appreciated. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302762#302762
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant(at)msn.com> |
I'm drill holes in the spar for the center section in order to attach the w
ing and cabane brackets. When drilling these=2C what happens when you laqu
er the inside of the holes? Do we need to drill out a small fraction large
r?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
I used a q-tip (they had to be replaced often since they fell apart after a few
holes) or eye liner brush (the brush worked better and lasted longer) to put
a good layer inside the holes. I found that I could still slide the bolts through
the holes, no more drilling required. A slight bit tighter fit but not much.
Probably wouldn't hurt to run a drill bit or reamer through the hole since most
of the lacquer probably soaked into the wood (which is what you wanted anyway,
righ?).
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
Sent: Jun 27, 2010 10:10 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hole sizes
I'm drill holes in the spar for the center section in order to attach the wing
and cabane brackets. When drilling these, what happens when you laquer the inside
of the holes? Do we need to drill out a small fraction larger?
Tom B.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube.
As for the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just leave all the
static ports open? Or all run to one point source in the cockpit?
One less line to run?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302773#302773
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gcardinal" <gcardinal(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
I was driving through Poplar Grove today and stopped in to visit with
Dan and see his Pietenpol.
"Wow" and "Gorgeous" don't even come close to describing his airplane.
Dan has set the bar pretty high.....
Greg Cardinal
P.S. Dan's hangar / workshop is equally impressive!
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:17 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: First flight! 1st dead stick landing......
ever
So it was a good day. I proved that my airplane flies. I proved that I
could fly it and land it. Now on to fixing the probs. The oil leaks are
the big thing.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
I just left my static ports open and that seems to work for my
application.. Made my own pitot from copper tubing.
Ben
On 6/28/2010 12:03 AM, j_dunavin wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin"
>
> very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube.
> As for the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just leave all the
static ports open? Or all run to one point source in the cockpit?
> One less line to run?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302773#302773
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Yocum <yocum(at)fnal.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
Again, I refer back to Mike's installation. He and Jeff B. plugged
their static ports with plastic plugs drilled with small holes (1/16"?).
Speaking of the static ports on the back of instruments, does anyone
know off the top of their head what size and thread gauge these
typically are?
Thanks,
Dan
On 06/27/2010 11:03 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin"
>
> very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube.
> As for the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just leave all the
static ports open? Or all run to one point source in the cockpit?
> One less line to run?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302773#302773
>
>
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Photos of First Flight NX929DH |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Sorry this took so long to post, but I think after viewing you will agree
the wait was worth it. After you get to this Photobucket sight, click on
"slideshow" for best viewing. I wish this was a video, but sometimes the
imagination fills in even better than the movement and sound ever could.
Enjoy!!
http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/First%20Flight%20NX929DH/
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Newby coming to Brodhead |
| From: | Dale Mccleskey <dale.mccleskey(at)lifeway.com> |
I'm planning my first trip to Brodhead. Will be flying N7035N, my Piet
completed in 2004 (so why has it taken me this long to fly to
Brodhead.... I plead insanity). Will be flying from Nashville, TN
(M-54 actually) and am wondering if any others would want to fly
together either from this area or along the route. Also just open to
what wisdom I need to know about making the trip and staying at
Brodhead. Motel or camp? What do I need to bring?
And does anybody have any experience with the HP or Garmin PDA's with
aviation gps (Ebay has a bunch of them)?
I'm sure pleased to find this discussion group.
--
Dale McCleskey, Editor
Leadership and Adult Publishing
LifeWay Christian Resources
One LifeWay Plaza
Nashville, Tennessee 37234
(615)251-3670
As God works through us . . .
We will help people and churches know Jesus Christ and seek His
Kingdom by providing biblical solutions that spiritually transform
individuals and cultures.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Metcalfe <fmetcalf(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
1/8 MPT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Dan Yocum <y
ocum(at)fnal.gov>=0ATo: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, June 28, 201
0 7:51:50 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: homemade pitot tube?=0A=0A-
I refer back to Mike's installation.- He and Jeff B. plugged =0Atheir st
atic ports with plastic plugs drilled with small holes (1/16"?).=0A=0ASpeak
ing of the static ports on the back of instruments, does anyone =0Aknow off
the top of their head what size and thread gauge these =0Atypically are?
=0A=0AThanks,=0ADan=0A=0A=0AOn 06/27/2010 11:03 PM, j_dunavin wrote:=0A> --
>- Pietenpol-List message posted by: "j_dunavin"
=0A>=0A> very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube.=0A> As fo
r the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just leave all the s
tatic ports open? Or all run to one point source in the cockpit?=0A> One le
ss line to run?=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A> ht
tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302773#302773=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A-- =0ADan Yocum=0AFermilab- 630.840.6509=0A
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov=0A"I fly because it releases my m
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oscar Zuniga <taildrags(at)hotmail.com> |
I'll re-post something that I posted here in Oct. of 2006 when there
was a discussion of wing strut failures. Someone said that there
had never been an inflight failure of an Air Camper wing and the
fact was disputed. Turns out that the case in question did NOT
involve a wing spar failure... it was the wing strut. Here's the
post, and the reference to aerobatics:
>I think I've found a reference to Pietenpol wing strut failure,
>to go with the recent thread on aluminum struts and jury struts
>and all that. Chet Peek's book, discussing Bennie Skaarberg's
>Model A powered Aircamper, gives Pietenpol's comments following
>the fatal crash: "Pietenpol and other witnesses later revealed
>the cause of the crash was actually the failure of the wing struts.
>Skaarberg had tried to do a loop, fallen out of the maneuver at
>the top, thus putting a reverse load on the struts, and the wing
>came off."
>
>Doesn't say whether Skaarberg's airplane had jury struts installed
>nor are there pictures of the airplane other than the mangled heap
>of wreckage, but apparently the comment regarding negative G's was
>based on this incident. The aluminum strut substitution would seem
>to warrant some engineering analysis not just in tension, but
>buckling failure modes in compression when compared with the equivalent
>4130 streamlined tubing struts.
Other discussions in the past seemed to indicate that the standard
Air Camper setup is only good for ONE negative G, and various pilots
(Mike Cuy comes to mind) reported having experienced considerably
more than one negative G in flying their aircampers. This was in
relation to the requirement for jury struts on the wing lift struts.
Jury struts should be considered to be mandatory... aerobatics or
not.
Mikee also pointed out that Mr. Pietenpol's original wing strut
material had internal stiffeners that today's streamline tubing
does not have, so it's even questionable as to what the actual
capability of today's struts is compared to the internally
stiffened material of those days, with or without jury struts.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Markle <jim_markle(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH |
WOW! Very nice. I think #45 is my favorite....
Movies or not...this is great!
Thanks for sharing Dan!
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Jun 28, 2010 8:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Photos of First Flight NX929DH
Sorry this took so long to post, but I think after viewing you will agree the wait
was worth it. After you get to this Photobucket sight, click on "slideshow"
for best viewing. I wish this was a video, but sometimes the imagination fills
in even better than the movement and sound ever could. Enjoy!!
http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss83/dhelsper/First%20Flight%20NX929DH/
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newby coming to Brodhead |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Welcome Dale! And congratulations on your airplane!
I'm pretty new to Brodhead myself (second trip this year), so I'll let one of the
veterans fill you in on how to best experience the magic. I believe that there
are several new airplanes planning to attend this year, which ought to be
great. We (my family and I) were fortunate to make it last year and had a really
great time.
I will say this... while most of the group are very hospitable and civilized, there
are a few unruly, sneaky and salty sorts among us. I won't name any names,
but one real shady character rhymes with "john recine"... if you get any correspondence
from someone with a name that sounds like "john recine"... hide your
beer, your food and your valuables. [Wink]
We sure do look forward to meeting you, and getting an eyeball on your airplane!
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302811#302811
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Boatright <jboatri(at)emory.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH |
WOW! Great stuff! Congratulations. And was that a manly tear being
wiped from your eye in the last two slides? Of course not! That was
bug that got in under the goggles, right? ;-)
Congratulations again. What a thrill just sitting here looking at the photos!
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Photos of First Flight NX929DH |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Wow! Those are really great pics... and your field is beautiful. Very inspiring
Dan. Good luck with your testing phase and we look forward to seeing you at
Brodhead.
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302821#302821
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead(at)hotmail.com> |
Keerp in mind that even certified aircraft are only stressed for 1.5 negati
ve. I personally have experienced moderate to severe turbulence and swore
that we were reaching the limits of the airframe. (I wasn't flying=2C nor d
id I fly with this person again) I did trust the published manouvering spee
d though. Anyway=2C My point is that 1.5 negative Gs is a lot. Having la
ter experienced it. I know now that I have never even experienced 1 negati
ve in normal flight.
Just my .02 and it my not even be worth that.
One final thought. Aluminum struts are used on many exp. aircraft in the s
ame weight range as the Piet.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Aerobatics
> Date: Mon=2C 28 Jun 2010 07:50:49 -0500
>
>
>
>
> I'll re-post something that I posted here in Oct. of 2006 when there
> was a discussion of wing strut failures. Someone said that there
> had never been an inflight failure of an Air Camper wing and the
> fact was disputed. Turns out that the case in question did NOT
> involve a wing spar failure... it was the wing strut. Here's the
> post=2C and the reference to aerobatics:
>
> >I think I've found a reference to Pietenpol wing strut failure=2C
> >to go with the recent thread on aluminum struts and jury struts
> >and all that. Chet Peek's book=2C discussing Bennie Skaarberg's
> >Model A powered Aircamper=2C gives Pietenpol's comments following
> >the fatal crash: "Pietenpol and other witnesses later revealed
> >the cause of the crash was actually the failure of the wing struts.
> >Skaarberg had tried to do a loop=2C fallen out of the maneuver at
> >the top=2C thus putting a reverse load on the struts=2C and the wing
> >came off."
> >
> >Doesn't say whether Skaarberg's airplane had jury struts installed
> >nor are there pictures of the airplane other than the mangled heap
> >of wreckage=2C but apparently the comment regarding negative G's was
> >based on this incident. The aluminum strut substitution would seem
> >to warrant some engineering analysis not just in tension=2C but
> >buckling failure modes in compression when compared with the equivalent
> >4130 streamlined tubing struts.
>
> Other discussions in the past seemed to indicate that the standard
> Air Camper setup is only good for ONE negative G=2C and various pilots
> (Mike Cuy comes to mind) reported having experienced considerably
> more than one negative G in flying their aircampers. This was in
> relation to the requirement for jury struts on the wing lift struts.
> Jury struts should be considered to be mandatory... aerobatics or
> not.
>
> Mikee also pointed out that Mr. Pietenpol's original wing strut
> material had internal stiffeners that today's streamline tubing
> does not have=2C so it's even questionable as to what the actual
> capability of today's struts is compared to the internally
> stiffened material of those days=2C with or without jury struts.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio=2C TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Newby coming to Brodhead |
| From: | "K5YAC" <hangar10(at)cox.net> |
Amsafetyc wrote:
> I am watching and reading Mark! can I have the women?
See what I mean... I refrained from mentioning "hiding the women" because Dale
is new here, and obviously a good Christian. I didn't want to scare him off before
we got to hear more about his airplane. On the other hand... John is quite
the heathen... ha ha!
Yes John, I am aware that you are ALWAYS watching and reading. You walked right
into my trap. [Laughing]
--------
Mark Chouinard
Finishing up Wings - Working on Center Section
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302830#302830
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol in DFW area |
| From: | "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee(at)us.army.mil> |
Hi Juan - I'm in Georgetown, north of Austin, about 3-4 hours south of DFW. You're
welcome to visit. Call me at 512-422-6371. If you're not a heavyweight
I'll take you flying in NX899KP.
Kevin Purtee
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302831#302831
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | my new engine arrived! |
Progress on the rebuild is coming along well. Big milestone today, just
uncrated my recently purchased 0-200!! Has 250hrs on it and is firewall
forward from a 150. Looks pretty good. The compression supposedly is good,
we'll double ck here, but so far so good. Now have to build the engine
mount.
Just heard from Don that the Woodwork is all done on the wings and he's
getting ready to re-cover soon.
So things are moving forward which is very promising. Maybe next spring?
She's going to have a very different look from the old "Ford" look. I think
I'm going after the 1930's British look since I won't have that beautiful
Ford up front.
Douwe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: my new engine arrived! |
| From: | Ryan Mueller <rmueller23(at)gmail.com> |
Congrats Douwe. Always fun when that big crate shows up at your door. :P
If you're going to go for the British look you'll have to find yourself a
set of Roll-Royce O-200 valve covers! :)
Keep up the good work. Have a good day,
Ryan
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Douwe Blumberg wrote:
> douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Progress on the rebuild is coming along well. Big milestone today, just
> uncrated my recently purchased 0-200!! Has 250hrs on it and is firewall
> forward from a 150. Looks pretty good. The compression supposedly is
> good,
> we'll double ck here, but so far so good. Now have to build the engine
> mount.
>
> Just heard from Don that the Woodwork is all done on the wings and he's
> getting ready to re-cover soon.
>
> So things are moving forward which is very promising. Maybe next spring?
>
> She's going to have a very different look from the old "Ford" look. I
> think
> I'm going after the 1930's British look since I won't have that beautiful
> Ford up front.
>
> Douwe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrel Jones <wd6bor(at)vom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piet Aerobatics |
We had a Pietenpol with strut failure here at Schellville in Sonoma, CA
back in the 70's. In that case the builder didn't install jury struts
and had the struts buckle in a strong updraft. The result was a double
fatal if I recall.
Darrel Jones
Pfeifer Sport N154JP
PS. Joe Pfeifer's kid Butch used to do mild acro in the Sport, but it is
steel tube fuse with enough differences that I tell people it is a
Pietenpol variant. I still have a couple fuselage side glued up with
Aerolite if anyone is interested.
On 6/28/2010 5:50 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga
>
>
> I'll re-post something that I posted here in Oct. of 2006 when there
> was a discussion of wing strut failures. Someone said that there
> had never been an inflight failure of an Air Camper wing and the
> fact was disputed. Turns out that the case in question did NOT
> involve a wing spar failure... it was the wing strut. Here's the
> post, and the reference to aerobatics:
>
>
>> I think I've found a reference to Pietenpol wing strut failure,
>> to go with the recent thread on aluminum struts and jury struts
>> and all that. Chet Peek's book, discussing Bennie Skaarberg's
>> Model A powered Aircamper, gives Pietenpol's comments following
>> the fatal crash: "Pietenpol and other witnesses later revealed
>> the cause of the crash was actually the failure of the wing struts.
>> Skaarberg had tried to do a loop, fallen out of the maneuver at
>> the top, thus putting a reverse load on the struts, and the wing
>> came off."
>>
>> Doesn't say whether Skaarberg's airplane had jury struts installed
>> nor are there pictures of the airplane other than the mangled heap
>> of wreckage, but apparently the comment regarding negative G's was
>> based on this incident. The aluminum strut substitution would seem
>> to warrant some engineering analysis not just in tension, but
>> buckling failure modes in compression when compared with the equivalent
>> 4130 streamlined tubing struts.
>>
> Other discussions in the past seemed to indicate that the standard
> Air Camper setup is only good for ONE negative G, and various pilots
> (Mike Cuy comes to mind) reported having experienced considerably
> more than one negative G in flying their aircampers. This was in
> relation to the requirement for jury struts on the wing lift struts.
> Jury struts should be considered to be mandatory... aerobatics or
> not.
>
> Mikee also pointed out that Mr. Pietenpol's original wing strut
> material had internal stiffeners that today's streamline tubing
> does not have, so it's even questionable as to what the actual
> capability of today's struts is compared to the internally
> stiffened material of those days, with or without jury struts.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ben Charvet <bencharvet(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: homemade pitot tube? |
I believe thats 1/8 NPT (national pipe thread) You can buy barb or
compression fittings to fit at Ace Hardware Aircraft Supply
Ben
On 6/28/2010 8:51 AM, Frank Metcalfe wrote:
> 1/8 MPT
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Dan Yocum
> *To:* pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com
> *Sent:* Mon, June 28, 2010 7:51:50 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: homemade pitot tube?
>
> >
>
> Again, I refer back to Mike's installation. He and Jeff B. plugged
> their static ports with plastic plugs drilled with small holes (1/16"?).
>
> Speaking of the static ports on the back of instruments, does anyone
> know off the top of their head what size and thread gauge these
> typically are?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> On 06/27/2010 11:03 PM, j_dunavin wrote:
> > --> Pietenpol-List message posted by:
> "j_dunavin">
> >
> > very cool! OK I was all worried about a $200 pitot tube.
> > As for the static... since it is open cockpit, couldn't you just
> leave all the static ports open? Or all run to one point source in the
> cockpit?
> > One less line to run?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302773#302773
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dan Yocum
> Fermilab 630.840.6509
> yocum@fnal.gov , http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
> "I fly because it releases my mind from = - The ;
> -Matt Dralle, Lis
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | pitot tube not shown |
But thought you might like this photo anyway ! Jack Phillips from my pla
ne somewhere between Juneau, WI and Ripon, WI
last July.
[cid:image002.jpg(at)01CB16E6.B37157F0]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | great news about Dan's first flight |
Wow-already doing Bob Hoover imitations with that deadstick landing !
NICE job and what GREAT photos you have of your early morning 1st flight Da
n. What an accomplishment.
We all hope you can get your oil leak and carb heat issues resolved so we c
an celebrate your first Brodhead with
your new Pietenpol. Three weeks and a few days.....you can do it !
Mike C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol in DFW area |
| From: | helspersew(at)aol.com |
Juan,
Do you know Santiago Morete, from Santa Rosa, Argentina? He is an exquisit
e Piet builder, and a frequent contributing member of this forum. In addit
ion, he attended Brodhead '08 and was loved by all. Contact me off-list an
d I will give you his email.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpkarrera <jpkarrera(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 26, 2010 4:11 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol in DFW area
Hello all,
I'm very interested in building this airplane. I'm from Argentina, and I'l
l be
n DFW area for two months due a training.
contacted Tim, a good member of this forum, and he told me many things ab
out
his plane and also he answered me many questions.
would like to know if somebody has a Pietenpol in DFW area, just to see
one of
hese airplanes and learn more about it.
hanks in advance,
uan Carrera.
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302611#302611
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helspers Milestone |
I missed Bill Knight at the waco fly-in, because they banned us lowly outsi
ders (non waco club members) from the fly-in.- I always liked seeing them
over at wynkoop, Bill, Tom Brown (the Brown Aero Aircamper with corvair).
- Bill was kind enough to trade some rides in his waco, for some photos o
f his UPF7 next to Dad's 1932 1 ton ford truck.-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight! 1st dead stick landing...... ever |
Congratulations on your 1st flight!!!- I remember seeing your airplane 2
years ago when I stopped in on my way to brodhead, It looks even better now
.- Have fun doing the testing.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pietenpol in DFW area |
Juan,
I'll be in the Dallas area for 3 nights, July 19-20, on business. Can't fit
my Piet in my suitcase, but would love to buy you dinner, if you have time!
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
20 ribs done
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol in DFW area
Juan,
Do you know Santiago Morete, from Santa Rosa, Argentina? He is an exquisite
Piet builder, and a frequent contributing member of this forum. In addition,
he attended Brodhead '08 and was loved by all. Contact me off-list and I
will give you his email.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpkarrera <jpkarrera(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jun 26, 2010 4:11 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol in DFW area
Hello all,
I'm very interested in building this airplane. I'm from Argentina, and I'll
be
in DFW area for two months due a training.
I contacted Tim, a good member of this forum, and he told me many things
about
this plane and also he answered me many questions.
I would like to know if somebody has a Pietenpol in DFW area, just to see
one of
these airplanes and learn more about it.
Thanks in advance,
Juan Carrera.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302611#302611
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===================================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shad bell <aviatorbell(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Model A experiance |
Dan, I am far from a model a expert, But I have had some exposure to drivin
g an old 1932 1/2 ford model a 1 ton truck.- It does have a v-8 which is
not the same engine.- If the engine gets hot it can vapor lock easily at
idle, just had it happen to me on friday night while dad was flying- (of
corse with your gravity feed that should not be an issue).- If you engine
is getting hot, and tight , that prop has much less inertia than a model a
flywheel does, keep you approaches high, and if possible do some longer fl
ights to help her break in.- I don't claim to know as much as the model a
fling piet guys, but listen to the experianced old timers, most of them kn
ow their stuff.- Be patient, and if you need more ground/break in time ta
ke it, and don't get pressured in to "having" to make Brodhead, it will be
there next year if you don't get there this year.- I wish you the best of
luck, congradulations, and congrats on that 1st dead stick! (butt
tightening isn't it?).
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: pitot tube not shown |
| From: | "j_dunavin" <j_dunavin(at)hotmail.com> |
mmmm piet's in formation!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302909#302909
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "skellytown flyer" <skellflyer1(at)yahoo.com> |
Pipe cleaners work well for me. I actually wet soaked mine with epoxy varnish in
the holes and tapped the bolts through and snugged the nuts up. for better or
worse-getting them out may a problem for someone someday but probably not me
I hope.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302914#302914
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Schreiber" <lmforge(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dan Helspers Milestone |
Shad:
I assume Bill was flying back to Brodhead from Wynkoop when he stopped at VPZ,
Porter Co. Tom Brown was also flying back in his cabin Waco, but Bill said he
didn't want to tackle the crosswind at VPZ on a paved runway, so he continued
on. I was in my hanger working on my Tri Pacer when I heard the radial. I looked
up in time to see Tom passing overhead. I went over to a friends hanger to
see if he saw Tom and thats when I saw Bill Knight already parked in front of
my friends hanger.
June 20, 2010 - June 28, 2010
Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-jh